00:00:13 scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 00:00:44 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:31 so i went back to using the old build system as a test 00:01:43 and if push the feature to build in a package 00:01:52 i get the same errors 00:02:08 but if all the files are in package cl-user there are no errors 00:02:57 PuffTheMagic: hard to say...do/did all of your files have an (in-package :foo) at the beginning? 00:03:30 they did/do in the branch where i am converting to asdf 00:03:35 -!- peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:03:54 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:04:04 by default, the default build system uses (in-package :cl-user) 00:04:12 unless there is a particular feature 00:04:41 PuffTheMagic: hmm, can't help you with a custom build system...just know (sorta) what Lisp and ASDF should be doing :) 00:04:45 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 yeah well since they both do the same thing now 00:05:03 i know it is not asdf related 00:05:25 why would structs behave differently outside of cl-user 00:05:43 are you putting your code in more than 1 package? 00:06:51 right now no, it probably should be down the road 00:06:53 hum I'm using drakma:http-request right now, it works, but I seem to miss some important lispy detail: the doc says http-request returns 7 values, which it does if I don't (let ((result (http-request ...))) ... ), but when I do (let ...), result contains only the first element 00:07:22 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:33 that's how multiple values work: unless you use something multiple-value-bind, then only the first value is used 00:08:14 clhs multipel-value-bind 00:08:14 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for multipel-value-bind. 00:08:21 clhs multiple-value-bind 00:08:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 00:08:38 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:10:23 -!- Plazma [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:10:44 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:01 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:11:03 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:08 Plazma [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has joined #lisp 00:11:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:55 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.228.117.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:17:14 stassats: With comint-replace-by-expanded-filename I get an error that "last thing matched was not a buffer". With comint-dynamic-complete, I get filename completion as I expect it to work. 00:17:51 then perhaps it's a bug in comint-replace-by-expanded-filename 00:18:01 -!- Plazma-Rooolz [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:12 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.13.12] has joined #lisp 00:18:14 Plazma-Rooolz [~Plazma@freenode/staff/plazma] has joined #lisp 00:18:46 because comint-replace-* replaces things like ~ and .., so they're not really equivalent 00:19:14 DarkStalker [~darkstalk@host70-71-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:20:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:20:29 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:20:33 How long do I need to study lisp before I have any idea what you guys are talking about :( 00:21:04 I just feel like there's this insurmountable wall. 00:21:33 well, we didn't jump straight on this wall either 00:21:42 all you need is patience 00:22:31 Right now I'm trying to sort out macros. I guess. 00:30:35 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:38 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:36:47 Mesh: well, that's the whole thing 00:37:16 if you've mastered macros, you've become the best lisp programmer in the world 00:37:20 On Lisp's section on variable capture had me a /little/ confused. 00:37:29 Mesh: on lisp is bizarre 00:37:50 It seems like a mixture of very technical but not actually technical..? 00:38:05 it's bad examples and bad programming and difficult topics 00:38:06 Like, the particular writing style it uses sounds very academic and technical to me, except it's... really not. I don't know. 00:38:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-109.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:33 Yeah I noticed a lot of the examples seemed really outdated. IIRC they use setq for like everything which is apparently an old convention? 00:38:39 it's trying to teach something that's both technical and aesthetic 00:38:45 Mesh: that's the least of the problems 00:39:13 Well yes but I'm not really that well versed in this stuff yet to pick up on the other problems :P 00:39:29 the only reason to use macros is not to make programs do things, but to make them clean and organized in a way that matches the problem at hand 00:39:49 Mesh: yes. paul graham is dangerous for a newbie 00:40:21 it's only good for laughs once you figure out what is correct 00:40:36 I am under the impression that designing macros is more top down than designing a function since it... seems like you're working from an end-state -- how you want the particular call to look and what specifically it needs to do -- than working *towards* an end state..? 00:40:49 kind of 00:40:55 marioxcc [~user@200.92.165.208] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 it's top-down in that sense, but it's used for bottom-up programming 00:41:06 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-223-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:41:09 Hi 00:41:12 Yeah. 00:41:16 you build a bunch of primitives and that explore with that 00:41:20 and then 00:41:54 or you build a certain expressive structure, when you get into more advanced macroing 00:42:02 Mesh: I'm only a couple of years into lisp myself, but I find I code a while (without lots of macros), notice I'm starting to repeat myself...so I figure out the macro that would only me to avoid redundancy. If I do it, then the next time I write code that looks similar, I just invoke a macro. 00:42:09 Mesh: and in that since, it turns out to be a bottom-up style :) 00:42:22 hargettp: yes, that is a good practice 00:42:36 abstract once you have a couple cases that show that there is something to abstract 00:42:41 I presume someday macros + functions will spring forth from my brain fully formed, in a top-down fashion :) 00:42:59 hargettp: sometimes you'll notice that you WILL need a common pattern in the program 00:43:12 but that usually requires expeirence with similar situations 00:43:42 rahul: oh indeed....once I discover the pattern (if the problem and solution at hand allow for one), I realize that the use of macros really, really helps keep the code organized...and so much easier to manage 00:44:16 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:57 yeah 00:45:04 one point of control if you wnat to change something 00:45:11 exactly 00:45:31 and if you need to bifurcate the behavior based on some context-specific thing, add a parameter to the macro to choose 00:45:41 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:44 yep...and suddenly fewer lines of code have to change 00:45:51 and if you realize that you can choose based on the actual code in the context, you can do that later, too 00:45:55 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-96-228-119-151.albyny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:25 yeah, the solution to the "change these 15 classes to add this functionality" problem you have in languages like Java 00:46:29 I have one library i continually refine, and I am realizing that my macros may help with a large rewrite... 00:46:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:11 ....because I have essentially already declared *what* I want, I maybe able to change *how* I do it, but just altering the macros (and the runtime they expect)...leaving large swaths of code untouched 00:48:08 yes, suddenly my interface isn't so much the crude form as in Java, C#, or C++, but a basic "language" that I've chosen for my application 00:48:12 rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:50:11 using the SLIME debugger (let ((x 3)) (break)) and then trying to inspect x trows and unbound variable error 00:50:18 why? 00:50:43 maybe your compiler optimizes out an unused variable. 00:50:45 because the universe aligned that way today 00:51:11 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:51:55 i'm using SBCL with 00:52:02 (optimize (speed 0) (space 0) (debug 3) (safety 3)) 00:52:48 and you're just entering (let ((x 3)) (break)) into the REPL? 00:53:27 yeah 00:53:51 try using it on something more real-world 00:54:11 When conditionally adding entries to alists (for example, to pass to drakma:http-request), I've seen two patterns: the first is something like ,@(when x `((key . ,val))), the other is (when x (push (cons key val) alist)). 00:54:26 Are there other, perhaps nicer, strategies for building up these alists? 00:55:04 stassats: it don't works on a real function 00:56:26 don't you need to refer to sb-debug:local-variable or something similar? 00:56:47 rahul: in any case it should be optimized away 00:56:57 stassats: not if debug = 3 and space = 0 00:57:13 and no, you don't need to 00:57:33 and to see all local variables, just press enter on a frame in SLDB 00:57:58 hmm slime may be different, yes 00:58:26 or no, it might insert that when clicking on the presentation when entering an expression to eval-in-frame 00:58:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:00:13 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@202.173.162.181] has quit [] 01:01:16 sykopomp: seems elegant enough to me 01:01:32 sykopomp: unless you want to write acons-if 01:02:07 rahul: it doesn't bother me too much, but it seemed worth asking if there were different ways to deal with that pattern. 01:02:22 sykopomp: don't think there's too much you can do that's better 01:02:31 alright 01:02:54 man. Designing based on a protocol really changed the way my code looks. :) 01:03:06 defun acons-if (cond key val alist) 01:03:27 (if cond (acons key val alist) alist)) 01:03:44 sykopomp: hopefully for the better 01:04:20 heh. I didn't even know about acons. 01:04:23 thanks :) 01:04:51 heh. it's not a major diff... but kind of related to protocols 01:05:25 using one consistent protocol vs mixing how you manipulate the same object 01:05:49 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:59 I think the one thing that still nags me about your first-class protocols is that it doesn't seem like they can be used to define implementations on existing classes. Am I wrong in thinking that? 01:06:22 (I didn't study your code too long, but the metaclass for protocol implementers seem to hint that?) 01:06:56 no, that's just a convenience 01:07:11 you can declare that a class should implement a protocol 01:07:47 What does that add/what is it necessary for? 01:07:48 i.e. you can define protocols for mathematical objects and then add lisp integers as an implementation of that protocol 01:08:29 since a common situation is needing to make an object implement a protocol from outside of the library that provides the class 01:08:55 does check-protocol (or whatever it was) depend on that :implements argument, then? 01:08:57 if you can define methods on it, you should be able to declare that you want ALL the methods for the protocol 01:09:48 *stassats* likes his function for finding longest path in an array: (defun L(i)(or #1=(elt H i)(setf #1#(if(>= i(* K K))0(+(elt A i)(max(L(+ i k))(L(+ i k 1)))))))) 01:10:38 sykopomp: I think you are referring to how check-protocols knows what protcols to check? 01:10:45 I think that's via class-effective-protocols 01:11:33 stassats: well, you could do that via a macro 01:11:49 stassats: or better yet, lazy propagation 01:12:02 "defmacro" alone is too long 01:12:08 er lazy computation, rather 01:12:22 heh 01:13:34 stassats: why are you mixing case? and where do A, H, and K come from? 01:13:37 too bad SBCL complains about SETQ without special declaration, i had to use Clisp 01:13:50 setq? 01:14:06 it's (setf elt) 01:14:16 must be due to some other code 01:14:30 yes, i set A, H, and K with setq 01:15:07 I see... 01:15:34 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:37 it's for an online challenge at http://spoj.pl/, so i won't show you that part, though is pretty too 01:16:36 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-41-36.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:30 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:19:23 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-109.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19:43 i wonder if it it will be fast enough if i remove memoization 01:22:30 sadly, no 01:23:16 sykopomp: I thought I added something nice to do an add-direct-protocol but I don't think I did. 01:23:42 sykopomp: if you can come up with a nicer abstraction than that, feel free to donate the code :) 01:23:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:24:15 rahul: is your code public domain, then? 01:25:08 it's hard to beat the ruby solution (92 bytes), i manage to squeeze only into 238 bytes, lisp is too verbose 01:25:15 sykopomp: yes 01:25:33 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25:44 sykopomp: truly public domain, not any kind of LLGPL or BSD even 01:26:32 stassats: probably because elt has 3 chars and setf has 4 chars 01:26:34 rahul: I'll have to play with it sometime this week :) 01:26:42 sykopomp: share and enjoy! 01:26:57 rahul: yeah, but elt is a winner compared to AREF 01:27:23 stassats: you're not allowed to use a DSL and call it a day? 01:27:37 I guess that could act some serious char count. 01:28:09 well, DSL implementation takes space 01:28:17 nope 01:28:24 say it's written in your DSL :) 01:28:31 that's what I'm wondering... 01:28:40 I mean, if you can pick any language. :) 01:28:48 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-96-228-119-151.albyny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:48 like HQ9? 01:29:22 or was it HQ9+ 01:35:00 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:00 -!- DarkStalker [~darkstalk@host70-71-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:36:16 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Hay] 01:42:21 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.191] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:43:17 -!- coyO is now known as coyo 01:46:34 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:34 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:17 -!- pavelludiq [~user@83.222.175.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:31 0/quit 01:49:33 -!- lordakinator [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:58:41 Good morning everyone! 02:01:03 hi beach 02:01:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:03:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:05:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:02 Where are you Fare 02:07:03 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-96-228-119-151.albyny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:39 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:08 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:14:19 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:24 -!- rme [rme@clozure-769EB638.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:14:24 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-121-193.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:18:10 minion: memo for Sikander: Do a fresh pull on gsd and gsll; FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM: 235 assertions passed, 55 failed. Try (reset-urand) and then (test-fft-noise 'double-float 3 :stride 2). The four results should match in pairs but don't. 02:18:10 Remembered. I'll tell Sikander when he/she/it next speaks. 02:21:07 -!- khrum421 [~khrum42@ppp-82-135-89-73.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:21:52 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:02 -!- jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:28:34 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 02:30:19 khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-82-135-89-73.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 02:30:40 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:32:15 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:00 -!- simard` [~user@modemcable131.222-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:28 hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:41:40 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:13 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:03:31 hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:08 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:05:18 When the SBCL cross-compiler encounters (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...), does it execute that code on the host? 03:10:18 -!- Dodek [~xyzzyz@87-205-35-228.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:11:23 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 03:14:37 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:03 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:50 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:17:53 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has joined #lisp 03:19:41 Yes. 03:19:46 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:11 Well, effectively. 03:21:35 Zhivago: thanks. any sneaky caveates? 03:23:05 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:24:23 -!- MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:26:20 Well, it executes in an environment that might not be there after the compilation finishes. 03:26:56 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.165.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:43 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-guoeaoeoqrywvdgw] has joined #lisp 03:29:10 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:29:32 dboswell` [~dave@64.55.42.133] has joined #lisp 03:29:53 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:00 -!- dboswell` [~dave@64.55.42.133] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:40 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:27 dboswell [~dave@64.55.42.133] has joined #lisp 03:32:35 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:58 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:28 yes, great. same with defmacros and define-compiler-macros compiled for the target, it seems. thanks Zhivago 03:36:36 well, that's what sb! packages are for 03:37:59 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:38:18 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:48 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-94.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:24 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 03:44:13 OEP 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10:18:13 *antifuchs* wonders why clone() on linux would return ENOMEM. ulimit -a gives me no indication that anything is set too low or too high 10:19:03 antifuchs: perhaps in security limits (/etc/security/limits.conf) 10:19:32 yeah, I checked those. but the soft limits displayed by ulimit -a are all below those values set in there, and they look reasonable. 10:20:44 hm, I'll double the values in there and report back 10:26:28 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 10:30:07 hm, nothing 10:30:26 ah well, it's just that one regression test. thanks for the help, galdor (: 10:30:43 anytime :) 10:32:49 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 10:33:00 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 10:33:00 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:34:34 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:36:36 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined 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-!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-158.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:33:45 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:33:47 Is there any precedent designing a "portable" API that for technical reasons has to be implemented separately by each CL implementation? Things like SBCL requiring all its packages and contribs to be prefixed with "sb" seems to be an active obstacle... 11:34:22 Note: I'm specifically thinking about SSE intrinsics here. 11:34:55 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:21 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:35:33 plenty. gray streams, the mop, extensible sequences 11:39:23 angavrilov: the sb- prefix seems to apply only to packages shipped with SBCL itself. SB-MOP is distinct from just MOP, because it's SBCL's implementation of MOP, for example. ASDF-INSTALL, OTOH, which also ships with SBCL (in contrib) does *not* have sb- prefix....so don't think sb- prefix should be a concern 11:40:07 jsnell: only two implementations have extensible sequences, the MOP is fairing a little better and even gray streams are implemented incompatibly 11:40:18 angavrilov: even if these operations had the same package and name, they could do different things (: 11:40:56 ext:run-shell-command /-: 11:41:21 fe[nl]ix: yes, but they're all examples of "portable" APIs that have to be implemented separately for each implementation 11:41:58 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:20 SSE support basically consists of a few type definitions in the core, and lots of VOPs (in the case of SBCL) wrapping CPU instructions - so seems to be no point in separate shipping, and not much place for divergence 11:42:54 Although it seems that even C compiler developers somehow managed to create some minor incompatibilities %) 11:44:25 jsnell: but if they can only be used through a compatibility layer like trivial-gray-streams or closer-mop, they can hardly be called "portable" 11:44:43 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:44 I think '"portable"' is exactly the right thing to call them 11:47:02 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:47:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:39 -!- lispm [~joswig@d223124.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:45 angavrilov: if the only thing that keeps your program from being portable is (:use #+sbcl sb-sse #+ecl xmm), or whatever it'll be, then I'll say you're in a good position. 11:52:36 _KY_ [YKY@unaffiliated/-ky-/x-0649748] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 <_KY_> Do I need to quote my arguments to macros? 11:53:39 _KY_: depends.. 11:53:50 OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:51 can you paste? or describe what your macro should do? 11:54:18 <_KY_> I try to call them unquoted, but it gives a mysterious "load file error" 11:54:40 <_KY_> As if the file cannot load correctly 11:54:41 _KY_: kan you paste the macro? use the paste thingie in topic 11:54:51 pkhuong_: Hi. I wonder if you have any comments on the naming and interface of intrinsics in my ECL contrib: http://github.com/angavrilov/ecl-sse/blob/master/contrib/sse/sse-core.lsp 11:54:57 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180073163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:48 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:55:58 _KY_: if you paste the code is it much easier to help 11:56:06 pkhuong_: That kind of package naming difference would make it impossible to use explicit package prefixing in portable code. Of course it can be worked around with some kind of a proxy package... 11:56:07 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:56:19 <_KY_> http://paste.lisp.org/display/113774 11:56:52 <_KY_> First 2 lines defines the macro 11:56:59 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:04 <_KY_> 3 line is the invocation 11:57:18 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:57:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:34 <_KY_> By the way, I defined the macro within a function... is that allowed? 11:57:41 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:58:18 _KY_: a macro typically _returns_ the code that should be executed, not actually execute it...the way you've written this, the macro invocation itself calls the code....is that really what you want? 11:58:46 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:55 hargettp: you may mostly just be missing the use of ` (backtick) and , (comma) 11:59:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:27 <_KY_> Yes I want to call the inner function in the macro 11:59:37 _KY_: then use defun instead 11:59:41 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 11:59:56 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:58 <_KY_> Oh I can use defun? 12:00:01 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:00:06 _KY_: yes you can 12:00:13 <_KY_> Dunno what's the difference really 12:00:23 in that way encapsulate you the inner funciton in a new function 12:00:36 <_KY_> I have never written a successful macro... every time it fails =/ 12:01:03 _KY_: any reason you believe a macro is what's called for here instead of a function? :) 12:01:14 (defun) creates a new function while defmacro defines a macro, very usefull if you have some code, that is slightly different 12:01:46 _KY_: you can get very far by using defun and the built in functions in CL, so you do not need to create a marco 12:01:50 macro even 12:02:26 <_KY_> Well defun seems to work fine 12:02:33 <_KY_> Thanks =) 12:02:39 np :-) 12:05:23 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:23 -!- ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:36 ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:06:02 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:12:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-guoeaoeoqrywvdgw] has left #lisp 12:13:21 urandom__ [~user@p548A75FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:52 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:17:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-2-83.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 12:18:48 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:47 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180073163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.6/20100721025642]] 12:23:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:25:08 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633514.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:25:13 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:42 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440822.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:25:42 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 12:27:38 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:15 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:30:03 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:46 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:49 wubo [80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 12:35:53 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:30 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-107-21.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:13 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:46 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 12:44:39 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 pkhuong_: Incidentally, how difficult do you estimate the remaining work to bring SSE intrinsics to SBCL to be? 12:50:20 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.25.82] has joined #lisp 12:54:48 -!- Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:52 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:30 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@202.183.154.31] has joined #lisp 12:56:31 Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:59:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:49 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:55 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@91-66-87-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:52 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-142.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:00 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:34 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-28-76.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:13 -!- jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:53 'morning 13:14:14 Already? 13:14:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:20:09 or morning UGT :-) 13:26:51 G'morning GMT-4'ers 13:27:36 'afternoon 13:29:58 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:30:34 Good afternoon everyone. 13:30:34 -!- TomJ [~tomj@78.148.49.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:09 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:26 -!- OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:31:26 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:56 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.156] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 (format t "Good ~a" (case (floor (nth-value 2 (get-decoded-time)) 6) (0 "night") (1 "morning") (2 "afternoon") (3 "evening"))) 13:33:54 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:56 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:01 LiamH: ? 13:35:17 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:37:25 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:35 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:38:03 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:38:54 "Good morning" 13:38:59 unless you're in asia. 13:39:51 Fade: or in Europe, where it shows "Good afternoon" :) 13:40:00 still, I have to save that line :D 13:40:05 ah, of course. 13:40:16 well, I'm close enough to morning, that I haven't coffeed yet. :) 13:40:20 (defun greet () (format t "Good ~a" (case (floor (nth-value 2 (get-decoded-time)) 6) (0 "night") (1 "morning") (2 "afternoon") (3 "evening")))) ; nyahahaha 13:40:52 jaiball [~justin@173-162-232-209-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:33 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:34 TomJ [~tomj@78.148.49.136] has joined #lisp 13:41:34 now I get it >_> 13:41:41 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:41:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-2-83.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:46:21 or, just be Hawaiian: Aloha 13:48:46 that's a clever little trick, though. I hadn't seen that before. 13:50:11 This is a rare case where format is actually clearer, I think 13:50:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 (defun greet () (format t "Good ~[night~;morning~;afternoon~;evening~]" (floor (nth-value 2 (get-decoded-time)) 6))) 13:51:13 Xof: nice; it's shorter 13:52:15 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:31 :) 13:54:24 -!- _KY_ [YKY@unaffiliated/-ky-/x-0649748] has left #lisp 13:56:31 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 13:56:37 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:56:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-26-15.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:03 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:24 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-121-193.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:13 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@72.163.190.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:00:20 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:15 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-26-15.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:02:43 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:08:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:10:55 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:18 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:14:55 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:17:19 (greet) ; thanks Xof. 14:21:38 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:09 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25:13 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:25 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:54 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:47 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:33:35 my brain hurts 14:33:45 Why is that? 14:33:53 lol, lisp of course 14:34:22 I am still working toward my "a-ha!" moment 14:34:29 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:30 not there yet 14:35:30 jaiball: brain cannot hurt, there's no nerve in it! 14:36:03 tell it to the depression ward at your local psych hospital. :) 14:36:10 jaiball: eg. neurosurgeons routinely operate on awake patients. 14:36:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:29 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:36:31 Fade: sure, but it's not the brain that's hurting. It's the software running on it. 14:36:47 pjb, yes - I need an upgrade 14:36:51 :) 14:37:02 I'd personally settle for a tune-up 14:37:03 jaiball: So what seems to be the problem? 14:37:08 pjb: actually it's more complex, cause the software in the case of the brain is more akin to FPGA bitstream 14:37:08 jaiball: There's plenty of those. 14:37:30 beach, nothing really just trying to wrap my head around lisp 14:37:31 though sure, we don't have neuroreceptors there 14:37:32 jaiball: I just had a major one this weekend. Still riding the wave from that one, and I've been lisping for over two years. 14:37:40 thats all 14:37:56 *Xach* has recently discovered the joy of multiple :accessor/:readers and protocols 14:38:01 *Fade* wonders what sykopomp's satori was 14:38:08 jaiball: Are you trying just for kicks? 14:38:22 beach, yes, and to try to become a better programmer 14:38:26 Fade: along the same lines as Xach's 14:38:30 Xach: you can have multiple :accessor/:readers? in one slot spec? 14:38:36 I think I missed that discussion. 14:38:38 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:38:47 Fade: after all the closvangelism, it finally dawned on me what people meant by "design around protocols" 14:38:49 antifuchs: ! 14:38:52 antifuchs: yes, of course! 14:38:54 AMOP feels like a completely different book now. 14:39:00 ah 14:39:01 I'm going to have to reread it. 14:39:02 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:09 as in :accessor foo :accessor foo-of :accessor class-foo? 14:39:12 sykopomp: Congratulations! 14:39:12 and it sounds like I should add the CLIM2 to that list, too. 14:39:20 btw, do you guys think that using reader with custom readtable and disabled read-eval can be sensibly/safely used in place of full parser for a web form? (exactly a query box that allows more complex queries than just plain text) 14:39:42 beach: I felt like a child last night. It's as if I had to start all over, learning how to design programs from a completely different perspective. 14:39:44 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 14:39:49 I am drawn to lisp like I'm drawn to zen 14:39:55 p_l: there are some more problems that can arise from reading untrusted data 14:40:01 antifuchs: yes. but in my case more like (... :accessor street :reader short-description) 14:40:02 p_l: DoS attacks, mostly 14:40:03 code is data, data is code 14:40:11 i have a function in a package with the name p, when i try and use this function i get an error about it conflicting with a symbol already in cl-user 14:40:12 lets not get too mystical. this stuff was born in the 1950's after all. 14:40:14 jaiball: one of the first lisp implementations I used was Zen on NeXTstep. 14:40:14 antifuchs: very helpful for automagic print-object methods 14:40:29 any way i can get past this 14:40:29 arbitrarily long strings, interning symbols in packages you might not want, reader errors 14:40:35 form is emptiness, emptiness form 14:40:37 antifuchs: assume that there's a generic anti-DDoS system for the whole application that throttles it before it reaches the reader 14:40:59 jaiball: I don't see what's so mystical about that. Code is just something that you can process at an earlier stage, like C preprocessors -- you just have bigger tools and easier-to-manipulate data. 14:41:03 as for arbitrarily long strings... I can always cut them earlier in the HTTP stack 14:41:12 PuffTheMagic: you can only call a function or store/get it in a variable. How can you get such an error doing that? 14:41:29 PuffTheMagic: perhaps you're getting an error when doing something with the symbol P? 14:41:37 i have i my defpackage #:p 14:41:42 and the package compiles 14:41:49 p_l: that, of course. but symbols in locked packages? 14:41:49 sykopomp, it was one of those "a-ha" moments when I read the comparison of lisp and xml 14:41:53 but then i my code i have (p ... 14:41:55 and it dont like that 14:42:06 e.g. what if the user enters cl:your-system-will-now-hang-in-the-debugger 14:42:18 just never thought that way before 14:42:19 (you'll need to catch this) 14:42:22 PuffTheMagic: why don't you like that? 14:42:22 beach: one issue I'm having is that trying to make a protocol generic means, in some cases, figuring out how to manufacture data (and handle it) generically. 14:42:28 PuffTheMagic: what are the name of your packages? 14:42:36 I'm sure these are things you can all handle... the condition for) 14:42:39 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:42:49 antifuchs: hmmm.... is there a non-interning reader version somewhere? :D 14:42:58 p_l: nope (: 14:43:07 pjb, the package name is act-r 14:43:08 but then, you must make sure none of your libraries and none of your functions iterate over all symbols in a given package 14:43:13 (or expect them to all be bound, etc) 14:43:24 sykopomp: I know the feeling of having to start over. 14:43:25 an interning hook would be very very useful 14:43:26 PuffTheMagic: So your function is called ACT-R:P 14:43:32 PuffTheMagic: paste something relevant to the pastebot. 14:43:33 PuffTheMagic: is it possibly you eval'd some of your code in the REPL (which has *package* set to :common-lisp-user), and then later did a load of your package? 14:43:35 Using # in # 14:43:36 would cause name conflicts with symbols already present in that package: 14:43:36 P ACT-R:P 14:43:45 p_l: I think you might be better off using the sicl reader... once beach finishes it (-: 14:44:00 PuffTheMagic: this says clearly what the problem is: you already have a symbol named "P" interned in CL-USER. 14:44:02 in my code i have (use-package :act-r) 14:44:12 beach: it's more exhilarating than it is frustrating. I haven't had an "a-ha!" moment with Lisp in like a year. 14:44:15 See, you're using a package, not a function! 14:44:19 unintern the p in cl-user 14:44:26 -!- ski [~slj@c-3810e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:44:49 Fade, can i do that in the defpackage spec? 14:44:50 PuffTheMagic: either you don't care about the symbol you already have in cl-user, and you can just unintern it before using the act-r package, or you care about it, and you can use (act-r:p ...) 14:45:13 *sykopomp* wonders if that stray p is from letting go of C or M while moving around in emacs. 14:45:15 PuffTheMagic: I think it's much more likely that you read some p in cl-user and the symbol was interned. 14:45:16 beach: there's one thing I'd love if sicl could do: implement the reader algorithm, but provide a user-accessible hook for when it would intern stuff (: 14:45:20 antifuchs: assuming I have a non-interning reader, would there be any problem if I'm simply doing a (execute-query (compile-query (READ-NO-INTERN stream))) and have no further references to the query data? 14:45:22 so it's probably a transient error. 14:45:47 it probably depends on what compile-query and execute-query do 14:45:53 antifuchs, beach: a CLOS based reader with generic method "intern"? :D 14:45:57 antifuchs: Sounds good! 14:46:32 to me it sounds like you've just opened a huge data query language injection hole (: 14:46:47 think "bobby tables" 14:46:49 *sykopomp* was thinking last night about what a haskell-like type system would be like if it had MOP-level customizability. 14:47:03 PuffTheMagic: notice that usually cl-user will be used only for scratch work. Normally when you use act-r in a program you will use it from a package specific from the program. (defpackage :my-program (:use :cl :act-r)) and then there's no problem. 14:47:26 antifuchs: it was an idea I had while doing some failed web dev stuff, to get a nice and powerful query language for search forms without writing parser from scratch 14:47:32 well i restarted ccl 14:47:38 and i got a different error this time 14:47:43 Of course. 14:47:45 sykopomp: ... I think Haskell guys called, they want their type-system back 14:47:46 i find cl-user ends up having all kinds of repl sourced erroneous and transient symbols from debuggery etc. 14:47:51 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:52 how do I add struct accessor to the export list 14:47:59 just like a normal function 14:48:04 or do i have to add the struct in there too 14:48:04 NO!!!! 14:48:07 sykopomp: cause I am *sure* they already did it, or a paper is in the works ;D 14:48:10 PuffTheMagic: you ARE NOT EXPORTING FUNCTIONS! 14:48:15 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:15 p_l: I didn't know that! :) 14:48:22 p_l: if your query language doesn't allow data modification, and arbitrary queries is what you want, then that's ok 14:48:24 PuffTheMagic: packages deal with symbols only. what they happen to name is not related. 14:48:24 packages only export symbol names. 14:48:25 PuffTheMagic: packages are only collcetions of ___SYMBOLS___. 14:48:39 p_l: but if this is SQL (or sparql 1.1...), your users might get ideas 14:48:49 PuffTheMagic: I think, maybe, that you should know that packages only deal with symbols. Just FYI. 14:49:09 sykopomp: I had seen internal "databases" implemented in type system, which of course was compile-time executed... 14:49:10 PuffTheMagic: go back and read the relevant chapter in PCL 14:49:19 PuffTheMagic: you don't add the struct either to the export list. 14:49:35 antifuchs: think one of those with only reading ability (no insert/delete etc.) 14:49:37 PuffTheMagic: you will add the symbols that name the accessor of your structure or whatever else in your program to the export list. 14:49:38 p_l: heh. 14:49:39 sykopomp, i program in C, js, matlab, lisp.... I get my verbage mixed up ;) 14:49:57 PuffTheMagic: the difference in this case is more than semantic. ;) 14:49:59 PuffTheMagic: actually, you will add symbol name designators. 14:50:04 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:50:18 -!- peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:28 PuffTheMagic: it's not just verbiage. It's a fundamentation difference of notions. 14:51:23 PuffTheMagic: in CL, there's an additionnal indirection given with the symbols. In other languages, since identifiers are not first class objects, they don't make the difference between an identifier and a function or variable or whatever else they designate. 14:52:04 PuffTheMagic: but in lisp, symbols are first class objects, and therefore you have to process theme explicitely. Packages deal with symbols, and don't care about the other programming objects that may be denoted by the symbols. 14:52:07 antifuchs: I wanted to implement a reader that basically would ignore the lack of parens around first list and support "keywords" with :keyword syntax (which take single argument, which might be a list, no quoting necessary) 14:52:10 pjb, i do know they are symbols, but error i get is that there is a unknown function, so conceptually in my head adding the symbol name in export is exporting a function 14:52:15 but i do get its just a symbol 14:52:33 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:52:39 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:52:45 Ok. But you could also access directly the symbol you want by qualifying it with the package name. 14:52:54 (act-r:p ...) 14:53:48 that would break too many models if people had to switch (p with (act-r:p just to use the new build system 14:54:12 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:54:12 There's a pdf about packages that explains everything very well. 14:54:29 Ron Garrett's PDF about packages does not explain it very well at all. 14:54:43 The CLHS is pretty clear on it. 14:54:55 PuffTheMagic: http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 14:54:58 (let ((*package* (find-package "ACT-R"))) (read input-file)) 14:55:00 gigamonkey was pretty clear, too. 14:55:02 A PDF that put those sections in order would be pretty good. 14:55:04 i understand packages for the most part, its more learning to understand the backtrace output 14:55:26 and what the errors mean 14:55:36 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:56:23 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:57:19 PuffTheMagic: you've mentioned "new build system" a few times over the last couple of day...I'm sorry, mind if I ask what you mean? 14:57:48 hargettp, i've got eveything building with asdf now 14:57:54 but to give u more details 14:58:11 im trying to convert act-r over to asdf 14:58:20 both to benefit from an existing buildsystem 14:58:29 and to be able to use 3rd party libs 14:58:38 PuffTheMagic: ah...ty for sharing :) 14:58:45 instead of maintaining all this old code 14:58:53 with lots of implementaion specific hacks 14:59:07 angavrilov: couple hours of hacking and double that for tests. 14:59:14 PuffTheMagic: ...was the code using just a series of LOADs? 14:59:39 sykopomp, a little more advanced than that 14:59:43 it was like a mini asdf actually 14:59:50 it did compile-and-load 14:59:55 and rebuilt old files 15:02:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:51 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 pkhuong_: note that the C intrinsic interface strictly distinguishes between float and double, so I have int-sse-pack, float-sse-pack & double-sse-pack in my code 15:05:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:06:57 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:21 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:20 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-173-14.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:08:36 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:47 pkhuong_: I think I may be able to help with the boring task of typing in all intrinsics, but I obviously don't know enough about SBCL internals to deal with the type system stuff :) 15:09:30 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:41 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:53 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:18:56 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:20:08 ski [~slj@c-3810e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:24 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:55 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 15:26:51 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 15:27:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:30:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:30:37 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:31:11 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 15:39:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:06 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-119-42.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:22 simard [~user@pcms19.grm.polymtl.ca] has joined #lisp 15:49:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:52:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:52:48 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:44 -!- jaiball [~justin@173-162-232-209-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:54:46 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-139-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sgryjcxnawjevjaa] has joined #lisp 15:56:22 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:56:25 -!- simard [~user@pcms19.grm.polymtl.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:34 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:03:31 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.25.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:52 I *think* I came up with a resonable simplification of the CLIM 2 input model for CLIM 3. In fact, it is both more flexible and much easier to manage, as opposed to the complex mess that gilberth had to implement for CLIM 2. 16:06:28 jaiball [~justin@173-162-232-209-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:10 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:08:01 I introduced a concept called an `input-method', which takes a vector of keysyms (I am just using the X11 keysyms, but that is a totally arbitrary choice) to be used with different modifier combinations if this is what the application wants. The backend doesn't track modifier changes, and it is trivial to write the code for an input method that will. 16:08:48 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:48 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 The purpose of an input-method is to manage an event by either changing its internal state (say when a modifier key has been pressed or released) or by generating a gesture (for instance a character). 16:09:41 This gesture is queued for later use by the application. 16:10:39 I already implemented a latin-1-prefix input method that captures sequenes of ascii characters and turn them into latin-1 characters in a way that is transparent to the application. 16:11:21 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:21 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:52 With these input methods, an application can do interesting things like highlight some part of a text if the input method is in a transitional state (perhaps you typed #\' to a latin-1-prefix method) which would have been hard to do with CLIM 2. 16:13:44 *beach* quits blabbing. 16:14:53 beach: would there be a DOM-like thing for controlling layouts? :) 16:15:19 p_l: Sorry for my ignorance, but what does DOM-like mean? 16:16:03 p_l: I have already improved the layout protocol considerably, and I am confident that part is basically working. 16:16:31 rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:34 beach: I was thinking more of a protocol oriented around modifying the tree of objects forming the layout (probably already existing, forgive my ignorance) so I could manipulate it in style of, let's say, jQuery (which uses CSS selectors as DSL for selecting objects in the page) 16:16:45 hm, I wonder if this new clim revision can be automatically tested more easily (: 16:17:02 antifuchs: That would be a good thing. 16:17:15 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 indeed (: 16:17:17 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:17 p_l: Yes, that's how I designed it. 16:17:51 I am sure mcclim comes with more tests than classic clim, but a better coverage of tests would be really cool 16:18:18 p_l: And I have an algorithm that minimizes the number of pixels that have to be redrawn based on the changes in the hierarchy between repaints. 16:18:31 antifuchs: I can't agree more. 16:18:49 antifuchs: But right now it is hard to even know what it is *supposed* to do. 16:18:59 hmmm... 303 users logged on to #lisp... looks like lisp is on it's way to rightful world domination 16:19:02 right! 16:19:26 rwiker: ssht, most of them are sleeping artificial intelligences 16:19:27 beach: also, an interesting thing regarding input system - I recall someone griping about uncertainty (at least in McCLIM) regarding handling of input with multiple toplevel windows etc. - Windows Presentation Foundation contains a complete event-resolution protocol, which is somehow tweakable (in the level that .NET object system allows it). Now couple that with nice and easy EQL-style specifiers for simple event handling ... 16:19:33 ... (like in Borland's VCL) 16:19:39 (initially typed this as "artificifial") 16:20:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:29 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 16:20:39 that probably counts as artificially extending artificial :-) 16:20:47 p_l: Multiple top-level windows won't be a problem in CLIM 3. McCLIM does pretty well as well with them. 16:20:59 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:02 does anybody here use trivial-ldap? if so, have you been in recent contact with the author? 16:24:00 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:03 (I'm asking because I've tried to send him some suggestions, not because I work for the revenoo :-) 16:24:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:47 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:24:58 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 16:25:10 -!- angavrilov_ is now known as angavrilov 16:26:04 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:26:06 antifuchs: Do you have any opinions about this input-method thing? I realize that you would need more information for a definitive verdict, but I would like to know whether it is already totally wrong and I should give up on it right away. 16:27:16 beach: it doesn't sound horribly wrong (: 16:27:18 beach: one thing that is definitely needed is a portable way to hook with OS-specific input methods 16:27:39 antifuchs: Is maintaining (and/or evolving) CLIM part of your tasks as a Franz employee? 16:27:53 beach: one thing that I recently had to debug in classic clim was that if you Alt-tab away from a window in windows, you get the Alt modifier down event, but if you alt-tab /back/ to the window, you don't get the modifier-up event 16:28:02 yes, it is (: 16:28:09 well, maintaining it at least (: 16:28:22 (point is, be careful with that) 16:28:24 newbie gets the best jobs 16:28:32 antifuchs: I might bug you somewhat more in the future then if that's OK with you. 16:28:48 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:28:53 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:55 sure! 16:28:59 Xach: that's right! 16:29:51 p_l: I am not able to think about that right now, especially since CLX doesn't even manage the XKB extension as far as I can tell, so I can't test anything. 16:30:05 (my fix involved re-syncing the modifier state with the currently-pressed keys. just a backend thing, but it should be possible to have an opaque modifier-state thing that is maintained by the backend) 16:30:19 beach: also, please consider the possibility of multiple pointers 16:31:07 CLIM 3, codenamed "flyswatter" (: 16:31:07 Invalid index 0: must be between 0 and -1. 16:31:12 beach: I don't need an actual implementation, just for the input protocol to support such case, then someone can code it for various OSes 16:31:30 For example, I'd love to port McCLIM/CLIM3 to Windows 16:31:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:16 p_l: I am not smart enough to design a protocol that works without implementing it to see whether I have missed something essential. 16:33:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:33:02 p_l: But I might consult you about how various OSes work, because all I know is X11. 16:33:45 beach: I figure that as long as the gesture can pass an event that is composed of multiple gestures at the same time (let's say, two fingers moving differently), then the rest can be completed later, since it won't break any API 16:35:10 (mind you, I'm flying at the seat of my pants - I don't have much insight into CLIM) 16:37:03 p_l: I don't know what it means for a gesture to "pass an event", nor do I know what it means for a an event to be composed of gestures, let alone multiple ones. 16:37:49 beach: see, lost in translation 16:38:53 what I meant was "input event", however it was to be constructed/handled etc., to leave possibility for multiple pointers, and the future specific could be implemented on top of that (just so that it doesn't go to hell when such feature is added) 16:39:56 multiple pointers seem a lot more likely now that we have all these touch-screen devices popping up. 16:40:17 p_l: When I have something reasonable to show, I'll submit it to you for review, and you can tell me whether such an extension would be possible. 16:40:39 sykopomp: Multiple pointers are also supported in X11 16:40:45 (with MPX extension) 16:41:09 p_l: I know, but I always thought of those as something a bored nerd would do for fun, or maybe some really passionate pair programmers. 16:41:17 not something that would be ubiquitous. 16:42:11 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:45 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 16:48:38 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:49:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:49:55 jewel 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connection] 17:33:35 Garai [~Garai@62.32.157.189] has joined #lisp 17:34:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-139-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:35:20 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:37:58 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sgryjcxnawjevjaa] has left #lisp 17:38:58 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-196-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:44:07 simard [~user@pcms19.grm.polymtl.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:45:08 I just ran a little cl-opengl example (NeHe Tutorial 6, rotating textured cube), now I'd like to have keyboard and mouse interactivity, what's the easiest way of achieving that ? the example is using glut 17:45:17 hum 17:45:32 simard: cl-glut, perhaps 17:45:50 well, wait before answering, it might be already there in the code 17:45:56 silly me 17:53:17 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:39 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 luis: ping 17:58:35 wubo [80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 Phoodus [foo@174-22-199-91.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:15 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:03:50 rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:49 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:32 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:07:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:11:12 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:52 fisxoj [~fisxoj@pool-108-6-19-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:51 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 18:16:06 rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:29 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:17:25 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-119-42.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:15 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:19:12 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 18:19:58 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-98-229-0-203.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:37 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 18:20:40 anyone attending this lisp discussion tonight in cambridge? 18:20:43 (usa) 18:21:20 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:31 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:22:58 dto: What is it about? 18:23:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:23:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 18:23:53 beach: the original lisp paper by mccarthy. 18:24:01 i got it on the boston-lisp@common-lisp.net list 18:24:15 What's there to discuss? 18:24:25 dto: I might have if I had known about it sooner, but I have plans now :/ It's just a short walk from my house. 18:24:29 be 18:24:41 beach: It's non-lispers, so I imagine quite a bit ;) 18:24:45 i haven't read the paper yet 18:24:49 i was going to print it 18:24:58 but i was playing Dirt 2 and now i'm gonna play resistance 2 18:25:33 rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 plus i'm recovering from a cold, so i don't know if i want to go out in the cold rain 18:26:35 dto: Take a cab! 18:26:45 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@pool-108-6-19-104.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:27:17 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 hahah 18:28:07 i just drove 10 hours each way to virginia last week :).... cambridge from here is only 45 minutes... i don't mind driving :) 18:28:24 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:59 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-176-9.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:02 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-142.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:35:17 Americans! 18:35:40 I wouldn't consider driving for more than about an hour, tops. 18:35:56 Even if you were being chased by zombies? 18:35:59 beach: unless a vulcan fires... 18:36:23 *p_l* would fly 18:36:31 pjb: I am not in possession of a motor vehicle. 18:37:03 pjb: Volcano? 18:37:05 Neither do I, but you can carpool. 18:37:11 Yes, volcano. 18:37:37 pjb: Carpool? To escape an erupting volcano? I don't think so! 18:37:55 clearly, a bike is preferable to cars in the zombie apocalypse 18:38:04 no need to compete for gas 18:38:19 This is what I did, last time a volcano erupted in Iceland, and all flights from Paris to Valencia were canceled. 18:38:38 *p_l* would still prefer a plane... 18:39:07 A pedal powered gyrocopter would keep you above the zombies 18:39:18 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-123.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:31 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:39:48 Elench: and unless you built it using nanotech, it would require too much energy to be useful while being rugged enough to survive 18:39:50 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:39:59 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 18:40:05 p_l: this is related to why i use nanotech to build stuff 18:40:08 and nanotech would allow much nicer things to be done in the same time/material budget 18:40:47 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:32 zombies? who worries about zombies when they can reasonably brag that you need a direct nuke hit to kill them? 18:41:36 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:41:40 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:42:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:11 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:42:22 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:11 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:22 I find that CLIM 2 contains a number of things that assume a single interaction language (usually English), so the first thing to do would be to eliminate those things in the spec, and then to figure out a mechanism that would allow one to internationalize it. 18:44:28 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:34 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:52 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:51:25 ffi to gettext (-; 18:51:29 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-tylvbslyyhxegeue] has quit [Quit: Server change] 18:52:31 p_l [plasek@stallman2.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:31 nus: Not my idea of a good time. 18:53:07 beach: you asked for a solution, not a good time! 18:53:13 :D 18:53:32 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 18:53:58 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 18:54:00 tltstc [~tltstc@192.207.69.1] has joined #lisp 18:54:13 nus: More importantly, whenever the CLIM 2 specification demands some explicit string for some message, I would like to eliminate that in CLIM 3 in favor of some more flexible mechanism. 18:55:13 beach, seriosly, what do you have in mind re the i18n besides something like a hashtable for the strings 18:55:15 ? 18:55:16 Condition reporters could be fine because one can override them later, given that the spec says they are equivalent to a specialized method on print-object. 18:55:56 nus: language-specific condition reporting would be one thing. 18:56:13 uhh, that's a topic in itself... 18:57:03 nus: The order in which arguments to a format string would be supplied is language specific, so you can't just translate strings. 18:59:05 *nus* somehow has a feeling that the format strings themselves would have to mutate depending on the language 18:59:28 beach: sure you can, thanks to ~:* 18:59:53 your format control can effectively arbitrarily reorder the arguments list given 19:00:22 Krystof: I actually know that. But I suspect it might be insufficient (given things like plurals, etc) 19:00:57 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:01:34 nus: That's my point. By making condition reporters language-specific, one can do whatever one wants. 19:01:35 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AC9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:01 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:02:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:02:45 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 19:02:53 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:40 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:03:54 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-246-245.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:11 ICU (International Components for Unicode) has examples of format string languages for message localization, number formatting, plurals, etc.; something similar could of course be done for CL 19:04:11 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 19:04:38 Sounds good. 19:05:17 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:20 I think I see what you mean... Effectively that'd boil down to having a generic enough grammar/rules DSL and an implementation for each language supported 19:06:33 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:06:57 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:07:45 http://www.cliki.net/cl-icu <--- i've used this with success, but it needs updating, and is FFI based. 19:10:14 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f704.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:11:34 angavrilov: you can always cast everything. 19:13:09 billitch2 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:18 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:13:31 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:00 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 19:14:08 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@192.207.69.1] has quit [Quit: ] 19:17:37 -!- benny [~user@i577A8A24.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-172-18.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:27 http://userguide.icu-project.org/i18n -- "The ICU libraries provide flexible APIs that can be used to perform the most common and important tasks. They contain pre-built supporting data that enables them to work correctly in 75 languages and more than 200 locales." 19:18:40 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:19:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:19:42 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:53 -!- billitch2 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:19:56 why use a struct under lisp instead of a class ? 19:20:14 smaller, faster 19:20:23 easier to write 19:20:31 tcr: not necessarily :(( 19:20:32 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:47 but they are faster ? 19:20:49 tcr: there's that lovely name-or-name-and-options thing. 19:20:58 simard: there's a school of thought that says, "don't". 19:21:12 simard: they're smaller, and accessing their slots is likely to be faster. 19:21:12 sykopomp: ? 19:21:33 defstruct makes a thing with a fixed layout. accessing a field is just a pointer+offset dereference. 19:21:40 tcr: (defstruct (foo (...lots of options...)) a b c) 19:21:45 defclass is more complicated. 19:21:49 gigamonkey: why, basically ? 19:21:56 foom: and that's cooked into the accessor functions. 19:21:58 I don't see the point you're trying to convey 19:22:13 simard: they'll likely come back and bite you in the ass if you use them too early in development. 19:22:42 I adhere to the school of thought that if you need something more complicated than defstruct your code is probably too complicated anyways. :) 19:22:49 simard: the layout isn't expected to change, so you might get in an unpleasant cycle of nuking your fasls every time you make a trivial change. 19:22:56 I disagree, I like using structs right in the beginning because you get lots of stuff for free, and less typing is involved 19:23:06 but I know a heck of a lot of people adhere to the opposite philosophy. 19:23:17 I like using defclass (:metaclass structure-class) 19:23:21 and what foom says :-) 19:23:33 best of both worlds! 19:23:36 Structs are terrible for interactive development. 19:23:46 :) 19:23:57 psh, you can add fields to the end no problem! 19:24:04 I see 19:24:06 i use defstruct on mondays, thursdays, and fridays and defclass on tuesdays and wednsdays 19:24:14 ok, no structs.. 19:24:33 sykopomp: Why? 19:24:37 stassats, you use lambda-coded-structures on saturday, and sunday is your day of rest? 19:24:55 simard: structs are fine. My preferred way of dealing with them is to start with classes (unless the concept is already extremely simple), and then convert to structs for optimization. 19:24:59 tcr: they hate change. 19:25:06 and my repl loves change. 19:25:08 tcr: because you have to recompile code when you change the struct? 19:25:16 tcr: redefinition of structures is not very well supported 19:25:17 I also hate having to nuke fasls. 19:25:22 So what it's early development, just one file anyway 19:25:36 sykopomp: you don't have to 19:25:53 tcr: it's early development, you don't need the tight-loop speed anyway (: 19:25:55 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:25:57 sykopomp: maybe you should use a thing that'll determine all your dependencies for you. :) 19:25:58 stassats: I've used struct inheritance :\ 19:26:04 so what's a fasl(s) anyway ? 19:26:14 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:26:19 FASt Load 19:26:44 more like SLOW load. 19:26:52 in any case -- if you design your app around a protocol, you can swap structs and classes with minimal effort. 19:26:57 Lil' bit less slow load? 19:27:06 Fare: well, not everyone uses SBCL 19:27:15 simard: the thing that's generated by COMPILE-FILE 19:27:52 alright 19:28:22 sbcl should use .lblsl as its fasl extension... 19:29:23 or just speed up fasl loading 19:30:14 BLM 2010-09-20T18:00 at NEU WVH 366: Hari Prashanth on Functional Data Structures for Typed Racket. 19:30:19 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 19:32:06 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:32:56 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-80-241.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:26 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:36:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:22 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-237-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:36:23 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:33 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:32 Is anyone playing around with git in CL? 19:37:35 khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-88-217-23-80.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-98-229-0-203.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 you mean, using git with cl source code, 19:37:54 or writing cl code that manipulates git stuff? 19:38:00 the second one 19:38:08 _deepfire did it 19:38:12 search for desire lisp 19:38:36 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:45 http://www.feelingofgreen.ru/shared/src/desire/doc/overview.html 19:39:28 I like the guy, but he needs to learn to communicate in addition to doing excellent coding. 19:39:33 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 19:39:42 deepfire: samium, you there? 19:39:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:30 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:40:48 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:42:19 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@219.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:42:56 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:03 wow, desire goes beyond what I'm looking for 19:43:28 what I really want to find (or help create) is an implementation of git in CL 19:43:56 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:03 dcooper8: froydnj has a fragment of that 19:44:07 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:15 http://github.com/froydnj/glitter 19:44:31 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.148.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:27 Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.0.75] has joined #lisp 19:46:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:46:43 how to get the binary representation of numbers like 2 = 010, 7=111 etc ? 19:46:49 lispm [~joswig@d223124.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 19:47:07 yep, Nathan's "glitter" what I am talking about. 19:47:26 it doesn't look like official C version of git will have a shared library for API usage any time soon 19:47:26 francogrex: (format nil "~2r" 42) 19:47:37 francogrex: one way is (format nil "~3,'0B" 7) 19:48:02 and from what i've seen, the trend is just to reimplement the parts of git that you need in your language of choice (like what people are doing with ruby with grit). 19:48:48 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 isn't there a project to make a libgit? 19:48:53 (in C) 19:48:56 so it seems natural that sooner or later we should have git functionality just available in CL, without calling out to external commands 19:49:09 i think original libgit is abandonded, 19:49:11 (let ((*print-base* 2)) (princ 7))? :) 19:49:20 and now there is some effort for libgit2 19:49:31 tcr: Xach: ok great 19:49:36 but from what i've seen it's going to be a "very long time" before it is really available 19:49:57 francogrex: there are ways to get info about the bits without that kind of conversion, though. if you're just formatting for output, it's fine. 19:51:19 Xach: it's for this on stack overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3549634/array-combinations-of-0s-and-1s 19:51:39 francogrex: No, it isn't. 19:51:49 so I guess it's just the formatted output 19:52:47 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:13 Xach: well it works fine 19:54:46 if you think it's no good pls tell why because I'm just about to give the guy who suggested it the 'best answer' 19:54:52 -!- Garai [~Garai@62.32.157.189] has quit [Quit: Es hora de cenar.] 19:55:27 francogrex: what's the purpose of computing the information? 19:55:33 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:55:50 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:55:56 it's to make a table for logistic regression 19:56:04 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:56:35 francogrex: How will you look things up in the table? 19:57:22 one would have: drug1(col1), drug2,(col2), drug3(col3), etc...,Present-condition,Absent-condition 19:58:12 Xach: oh, I didn't intend to (at this stage) to look up, it's just a way to keep track (on a paper) of what i have to search for. 19:58:13 I mean in the table of bits. 19:58:45 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[~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:12:42 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@host156-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:04 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:16:15 OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:59 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:10 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 21:23:53 faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:24:03 francogrex [~user@109.130.0.75] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 another in a series of stupid questions: http://paste.lisp.org/display/113795 21:26:08 and where is the question? 21:28:17 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:09 stassats: maybe he was referring to the question you asked. 21:30:12 it was a trick. 21:32:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A75FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:36 the question is ~4, 21:32:52 I want to control this from the function args 21:32:55 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:32:57 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:10 it's the same value as ncols 21:33:20 fe[nl]ix, ping 21:33:36 francogrex: ~v 21:33:51 francogrex: for example, (format nil "~v,'0B" 8 42) 21:34:09 binary01table is a strange name, since binary implies "01" 21:35:48 thx 21:37:25 there was also an error in my function beside the name, it should be (for i from 0 below N) not (for i from 0 to N) 21:37:43 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 21:38:03 there is another error: it uses ITER instead of LOOP 21:38:19 that's ok for me 21:38:26 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:41 I don't think anyone will find use of the function except myself 21:39:31 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:40:02 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:40:41 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:40:51 Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 PuffTheMagic: pong 21:41:20 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-213-149.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:41:24 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 21:42:54 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-209-101.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 fe[nl]ix, i've hit what i think is an iolib bug 21:43:58 and i cant figure out how to fix it 21:44:02 -!- Kaerr [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:44:18 i only get the bug on 32bit lispworks on 64bit osx 21:44:23 i dont have 64bit lw 21:44:34 so i cant confirm that its a 32bit/64bit issue 21:45:16 go on ... 21:47:06 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:38 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as C-store 21:47:47 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:47:53 -!- C-store is now known as PuffTheMagic 21:48:25 let me recreate the error 21:52:08 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-58-48.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:53:40 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:53:57 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-54-123.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54:03 #(123 34 109 101 116 104 111 100 34 58 34 105 112 99 46 99 111 110 110 101 21:54:03 99 116 34 44 34 112 97 114 97 109 115 34 58 91 123 34 104 111 115 116 ...) 21:54:03 cannot be converted to foreign type "Statically allocated (LISP-ARRAY NIL)". 21:54:09 is what i get 21:54:11 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:54:25 fe[nl]ix, ^^ 21:55:03 I'd like to see the entire backtrace 21:55:15 lisppaste: lisppaste? 21:55:26 fe[nl]ix: http://dpaste.com/233012/ 21:55:27 minion: lisppaste? 21:55:49 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:12 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-10-97.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:56:19 http://dpaste.com/233013/ 21:56:21 ^^ backtrace 21:56:27 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-88-217-23-80.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:00:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:02:18 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:51 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 22:05:05 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:05:30 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:05:34 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:05:56 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 22:06:25 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-83-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:05 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-196-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:05 chris___1 [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:15 Garai [~Garai@62.32.157.189] has joined #lisp 22:12:20 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:45 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 22:15:32 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host152-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:17:54 fe[nl]ix, do you need any other type of output, i not the best and debugging yet in lisp 22:18:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.0.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:05 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:06 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:34 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:15 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: I'm in ur base fragging ur zbigniew] 22:21:16 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 22:21:42 PuffTheMagic: I can't look into it right now. maybe tomorrow 22:21:56 k 22:22:23 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:09 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-34-24.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:25:04 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:11 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:28:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-14.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:24 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@46.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29:00 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 22:30:06 can I have an ASDF dependency that requires a particular version of a library? 22:30:40 -!- faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:30:43 yes 22:31:05 gonzojive1: provided that library actually provides version information. 22:31:55 yes, the library in question has to specify its version through ASDF 22:34:25 sykopomp: do you know what the :depends-on clause should look like if I want to require, say, version >= 2.2.1 of the asdf system :parenscript? 22:35:08 i believe ASDF documentation has the answer to that 22:37:05 gonzojive1: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#The-defsystem-grammar 22:37:38 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.30.246.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:32 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.0.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:40:39 xinming [~hyy@115.221.15.26] has joined #lisp 22:40:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:41:27 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:41:50 stassats: it doesn't seem like ASDF allows version bounding. Is that right? (version less than X, or between X and Y) 22:43:30 i don't know 22:44:57 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 22:45:48 -!- vandemar [spin@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:48 symbole [~symbole@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 22:45:56 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:46:24 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.204] has joined #lisp 22:47:32 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:48:02 -!- Tordek [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:48:12 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 22:48:12 -!- xristos is now known as Guest6084 22:48:20 vandemar [spin@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 22:51:40 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:52:10 Tordek [tordek@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 22:52:39 billitch1 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:04 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 22:55:36 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:59:02 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:01:33 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:45 -!- OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:02:53 -!- Garai [~Garai@62.32.157.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:59 -!- gonzojive1 [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:23 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:24 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:41 gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has joined #lisp 23:11:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:45 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:33 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.15.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:31 xinming [~hyy@115.221.11.153] has joined #lisp 23:15:42 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:16:15 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:16:23 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:28 wlangstroth [~anonymous@bas1-thornhill40-1279485739.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:16:31 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 23:18:12 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@109-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 23:18:53 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:19:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:19 -!- wlangstroth [~anonymous@bas1-thornhill40-1279485739.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: wlangstroth] 23:25:44 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:01 _Pb [4b83c2ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.204] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 23:30:19 stassats: You were right. It is a bug in xemac's comint. It failed to preserve the buffer when matching. With a fix there, filename complete works again. 23:30:56 psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-160-116.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-160-116.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 23:33:16 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:33:48 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:29 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:18 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:39:57 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-98-229-0-203.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:01 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.163.190] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-98-229-0-203.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:43 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 23:47:35 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.234] has joined #lisp 23:47:56 -!- gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:51:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:24 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:54:03 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:54:15 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:01 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:58:28 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp