00:01:31 how can I start acl-express in a console or how can I use it with cusp or slime on windows 7? 00:05:06 alisp <--- cli version of ACL 00:05:21 seelenquell: if you load swank, you can start a server to which you can connect from emacs 00:08:15 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:08:45 xach: I've tried. But when I start slime, emacs hang up. 00:09:03 seelenquell: M-x slime-connect is the thing to use 00:09:20 and (swank:create-server ...) IIRC on the CL side. 00:15:47 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 -!- Amyn [~Amyn@bos94-2-87-91-81-80.dsl.club-internet.fr] has quit [] 00:16:39 Xach: thanks, ill tryin it 00:20:47 Xach: It works, thanks, is there any way für cusp? 00:21:45 You should not risk your health. If you get ill, you should look after yourself. 00:22:30 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 00:23:19 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:19 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:34 What do you mean? 00:28:14 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:21 seelenquell: hmm, what do you mean by emacs hangs up? does it crash? 00:31:18 (it shouldn't) 00:31:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:02 No. It is no longer responding. (I can do anything, not even exit) 00:33:29 -!- Elench is now known as Deus-Imperator 00:35:10 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-124-122.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:35:55 -!- somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.221] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:28 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:37:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:39:31 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-103-86.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:15 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:33 antifuchs: If you want to know more spezific, querry me 00:42:03 seelenquell: repeatedly pressing (or holding) C-g helps for me when emacs does that 00:42:29 often, it'll hang because it's blocking on a synchronous syscall like connect 00:43:03 ah, thanks 00:43:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:04 if there's a problem connecting to the lisp (slime keeps a socket connection to the lisp process for communication), getting emacs unstuck and looking at the *inferior-lisp* buffer should give you some indication of what's going on 00:44:49 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:45:11 ok, thanks, but with the tips from X ach, its working now 00:45:23 that's even better (: 00:46:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:48:11 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727202.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 00:49:41 enybody knows how I can solve the sam problem with cusp? 00:50:54 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:51:31 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 00:52:02 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-26-15.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:05 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090520, built on: 2010/07/07 00:46:30 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:52:26 -!- Deus-Imperator [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:41 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008244.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:53:10 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:47 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:52 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-26-15.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:03:22 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:05:48 coyO [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:12 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:49 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07:02 -!- udzinari` is now known as udzinari 01:07:18 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:09:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@host251-109-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:01 why do SBCL constants not obey the +naming-convention+? 01:12:48 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:16 That's not a universal convention in the way that putting stars around special variables is. 01:16:07 -!- serichsen [~user@f054213007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 01:18:41 -!- coyO is now known as coyo 01:20:12 super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:34 consider pi, for example 01:23:15 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:27:21 very mysterios, xachs way doesent loger work, but emacs starts it now automatically 01:28:32 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-51-214.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:16 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:59 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-167.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:32:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:39:31 -!- gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:41:38 hi, do anyone know what program/script is mkmanual? it is required to build babel documentation 01:45:30 *rtoym* wonders if that's MK's manual package from the CMU AI archive 01:46:44 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:27 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-138-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:27 ldunn [~user@d110-32-138-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:49:43 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 01:56:41 -!- seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E42F0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:27 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:02:13 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:35 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:13 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:22:02 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:22:18 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.135.117] has joined #lisp 02:23:19 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-138-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:19 ldunn [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 02:24:24 if I have nested functions like this (foo (bar .... 02:24:43 is there a way to determine the function name foo from bar? 02:33:40 nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:34:00 how can I make STEP work in sbcl/ccl? 02:38:29 Any clue how to fix this cross-compilation error with the correct behavior? getting and undefined variable error inside a cross-compiled compiler macro that uses a variable declared with DEFGLOBAL http://paste.lisp.org/display/113739 02:39:20 coyo_ [~unf@2001:0:53aa:64c:30ea:4eff:b85b:1552] has joined #lisp 02:41:48 i run (step (r 2)) where r is (defun r (x) (if (eql x 0) t (r (- x 1)))) on sbcl/ccl it just runs the whole thing.. while on clisp it correctly lets me step 02:42:54 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 02:45:15 clhs step 02:45:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_step.htm 02:53:32 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-35.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:54:20 nvm figured :) 02:55:24 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:56:43 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:30 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:53 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:33 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 03:11:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:48 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:14:46 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:20:21 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:25:14 -!- nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:26:41 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:46 -!- hargettp_ is now known as hargettp 03:27:39 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:37 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:35 -!- Dodek [~xyzzyz@77-255-41-107.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:41:04 abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #lisp 03:46:22 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:59:10 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:51 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.135.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:02 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.27.47] has joined #lisp 04:12:43 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:24:22 -!- abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:31 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:32:48 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:40:09 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:32 abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #lisp 04:45:20 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:45:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.27.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:46:12 hi 04:48:48 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-4-19.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:33 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-51-214.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:01:48 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:02 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:06:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:09:09 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:09:26 Good morning everyone! 05:26:31 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 05:27:57 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:31:07 beach: mornin' 05:33:58 Hey, schmrkc. Up early like in the old days, huh? 05:35:15 -!- coyo_ [~unf@2001:0:53aa:64c:30ea:4eff:b85b:1552] has quit [Quit: *leaves in a hurry*] 05:36:05 I wouldn't say early really. It's just past 7. 05:36:16 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:23 True, but it's Sunday (I think). 05:36:29 I try to hit 5 really. But ya it is sunday. 05:36:33 How's beach? 05:37:00 Fine. I slept very late today. I'm still on vacation, so I'll spend the day again working on SICL. 05:37:09 What are you doing with SICL? 05:37:13 coyo_ [~unf@2001:0:53aa:64c:30ea:4eff:b85b:1552] has joined #lisp 05:38:07 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:19 -!- coyo_ is now known as tama 05:38:49 juxtapose [eriegrin@SDF.ORG] has joined #lisp 05:39:00 -!- tama is now known as SleepingYote 05:39:11 schmrkc: The past few days I have been working on a module in the compiler. It turns code into an abstract syntax tree where certain properties have been verified, and where macros have been expanded, variables turned into binding references, etc. 05:39:40 Hoh. Sounds like fun times :) 05:40:29 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:41:00 Yeah, now that I have some concentrated time it is best to work on modules that require such time. When the academic year starts, I'll go back to modules that only require 15 minutes of concentration at a time. :) 05:41:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:42 Oh coffee is done. 05:41:47 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:41:55 I'm not doing advanced stuff like this. I'm trying to get my laundry done. 05:42:11 Not as easy as one would think! 05:42:42 schmrkc: Sounds like we have similar routines. I put away the clean dishes, took my laundry out of the dryer, moved from washer to dryer. And I made coffee! 05:45:19 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 05:45:21 beach: my routine this weekend for doing laundry started yesterday. and is going on today too. It is mostly muttering bad things about whoever is using the time I booked. 05:45:37 I see, yes. 05:47:03 How is clim3 coming along? 05:48:33 -!- jasonx_ [jasonx@93-138-62-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:20 schmrkc: I have been concentrating on SICL this past week. Might as well take the opportunity when inspiration is present. I have some difficult decisions to make about CLIM3, like exactly what to keep from CLIM2, and what to redesign. I don't think I can redesign everything. 05:54:52 Aha 05:54:55 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-41-27.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:56 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-4-19.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:58:12 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:59:37 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-41-27.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:05:31 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-381.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:12:16 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:18 super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:33 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-227-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:25 tsuru` [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:31 _8david [~user@port-92-195-188-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:14:39 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[~khrum42@ppp-82-135-89-73.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:08:38 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 08:08:40 -!- khrum42 [~khrum42@ppp-82-135-66-207.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:11:08 jdz [~jdz@host172-107-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 slash_: ? 08:12:05 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-6-130.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:13:47 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-79-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:37 -!- SleepingYote [~unf@2001:0:53aa:64c:30ea:4eff:b85b:1552] has quit [Quit: *leaves in a hurry*] 08:14:52 Nm, wrong channel. 08:23:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:24:09 Anyone created presentations that can take arguments? 08:24:32 I want to present a meeting, but for each meeting I also need to pass it an additional number of meetings so it can check whether it is overlapping any of them 08:24:44 (this is all in CLIM2, by the way) 08:25:38 The only thing I've found about it is if I create my own presentation types. I don't want to do that unless it is strictly necessary, would be very happy to do it with normal presentation methods >/ 08:25:42 :/ 08:28:58 -!- juxtapose [eriegrin@SDF.ORG] has quit [Quit: Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?] 08:29:33 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:33:21 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:33:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:38:46 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:40:31 -!- ldunn [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:03 it seems like while cross compiling SBCL (declaim (special xxx)) does not make xxx special in the host lisp, but (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (declaim (special xxx))) does 08:44:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:45:10 what's your host? 08:45:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:46:14 this seems funny but it is probably correct. In any case, it's not typical common lisp because something like (declaim (special *x*)) (defmacro foo () (when *x* ....)) will result in a warning about an undefined variable *x* because (as far as I can tell) defmacro defines a function on the host lisp when cross-compiling, but the (declaim (special *x*)) diid not affect the host 08:46:40 clisp, ain't it? (macroexpand-1 '(declaim (special xxx))) => (PROGN (PROCLAIM '(SPECIAL XXX))) 08:46:59 stassats: my host is SBCL actually 08:47:30 well, in SBCL (macroexpand-1 '(declaim (special xxx))) => (EVAL-WHEN (:COMPILE-TOPLEVEL :LOAD-TOPLEVEL :EXECUTE) (PROCLAIM '(SPECIAL XXX))) 08:47:38 so your eval-when doesn't really make sense 08:48:10 that's why it's so confusing, because the eval-when does seem to make a difference 08:48:49 to be clear this is when cross-compiling a file for the target that never gets loaded into the host 08:51:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 08:53:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:54:11 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:09 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:57:03 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:58:35 OliverUv: Every time you create a class, you also create a new presentation method. The thing to do is to present the thing using your own class as the presentation type, and then you put whatever you want in the instance of that class. 08:59:10 alright, so no options to resentations then 08:59:11 s/presentation method/presentation type/ 08:59:30 just looked over the specs and it seems there is no way to give present or with-output-as-presentation any options 08:59:59 this'll feel retarded as hell 09:00:04 ugly code go 09:00:25 oh well 09:01:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:01:38 OliverUv: I don't understand. How do you expect existing presentations to accept options that are specific to your application? 09:02:08 that's not what I feel is bad 09:02:19 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 09:02:30 OliverUv: And of course you can give options to with-output-as-presentation. The presentation-type argument can be any presentation type and presentation types take arguments. 09:02:33 what I feel is bad is that I don't seem to be able to give options when calling present, even if I define my own presentation types 09:02:35 OliverUv: shortly speaking, you wanted :allow-other-keys ? 09:03:06 OliverUv: Sure you can. 09:03:12 beach: ah, that seems sensible 09:03:37 I assume I can do this with present as well, then, as I can give that a presentation argument? 09:03:42 OliverUv: But it is usually much easier to define your own class and stick whatever you want in that class. 09:04:09 OliverUv: That ought to be possible, yes. I don't think I have tried it though. 09:04:14 hm 09:04:21 *p_l* would probably use a context that would describe a "meeting manager" and the presentation method would have a layer that would check for such things in this context 09:04:35 OliverUv: Usually, what I present in my application corresponds directly to an application object, so I just use the class. 09:06:03 yeah 09:06:46 the problem with giving meeting objects "overlaps with" slots is that they'd have to be recalculated for every context the meeting could appear in 09:07:06 e.g. for each other calendar's meetings they could be displayed at the same time as 09:07:29 so I could just hack it to put the information into the object before presentig it 09:07:36 but it feels ugly 09:07:55 OliverUv: use a *meeting-provider* special that the presentation method can reference? 09:08:18 (or use ContextL for more interesting approach?) 09:08:23 p_l: I dislike globals, they feel equally ugly 09:08:45 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:09:11 i do have some globals, but a global like meeting-provider would feel foreign in this program 09:09:23 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:24 It ain't a global, it's local (just with dynamic scope) 09:10:00 (with-meeting-provider (present ...)) 09:10:02 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:25 oh right, specials were definition order scoped instead of calling order scoped, right? 09:11:11 erm... dynamic scope instead of lexical. I haven't slept for too long to try assimilating another definition 09:11:19 k 09:11:48 looking it up to update my own definition 09:12:31 francogrex [~user@109.130.90.129] has joined #lisp 09:13:13 specials are usually declared at toplevel, but their bindings are local (well, on calling stack) 09:14:00 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B626.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:08 the toplevel declaration style is afaik because of "good style & practice", not technical necessity 09:14:42 does anyone know an "easy" way to do intersections (and set-dofference) on more than 2 lists (many lists): I'm looking in a database where many drugs are given and I want to make a table of 0s and 1s for a regression: example: antibiotic-1 antibiotic-2 antibiotic-3 antibiotic-4 etc... 09:15:20 sounds like you don't want to use lists 09:15:42 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326703.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:15:58 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0BA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:34 jsnell: probably. I tried to do it directly in sql but there it's quite bad, it won't work so i thought maybe in cl would be better 09:18:06 I had to you select of select of select etc... it was a nightmare 09:19:34 the ideas is to have something like: antibiotic-1 antibiotic-2 antibiotic-3 antibiotic-4: 55 reports; not(antibiotic-1) antibiotic-2 antibiotic-3 antibiotic-4: 24 reports etc 09:19:48 p_l: I've never used specials before, but looking at the definition again it seems they'd be pretty ideal for this situation 09:20:08 maybe 09:20:12 :p 09:21:13 it would still feel a bit ugly 09:23:43 maybe i'll write to cll, someone there may have a good idea 09:24:34 francogrex: use reduce with fset method for set difference? 09:24:56 maybe something that would compile a sequence of such calls? 09:25:03 francogrex: you might want to look up the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLAP_cube data structure 09:25:26 slow on insert but pretty much instant for all such data reads 09:25:56 hmm interesting 09:26:12 it is very difficult to wrap your head around (i haven't understood it fully at all) 09:26:47 but might be worth it 09:26:50 yeah it seems difficult 09:27:06 francogrex: anyway, fsetmight be helpful as well 09:27:16 fset <--- this 09:28:12 I mean, queries like yours will necessarily go cubic in computational complexity 09:28:21 p_l: I will look into it as well thanks 09:28:25 so an OLAP cube, which is supposed to pre-calculate those things on insert, might be very valuable 09:28:41 a researcher can insert and doesn't need to care about waiting for the insert to complete 09:29:06 i will look at it, if there is no other way (the database is read-only, it's not mine) 09:29:16 but if reading the data takes a really long time, you'll force your researchers to wait a lot, and make them think twice about checking the data at all 09:29:22 ah 09:29:31 if the database is read-only I don't think you can do this 09:29:46 unless you copy all their data :p 09:30:51 OliverUv: it would be diffucult to cpy all the data; but if it's the only way... I'll investigate 09:33:08 francogrex: are all entries of the same size? 09:34:00 p_l: what do you mean of same size? I think not, each drug has a number of reports that is not necessarily the same like the other drugs 09:35:18 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:56 francogrex: the antibiotic lists and similar 09:40:23 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-223-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:09 p_l: not really, for each antibiotic there will be a diffrent number of reports and many subjects will have taken concurrently several antibiotic at the same time, that's what i want to see (the table of yes and no (or 0s and 1s) 09:42:11 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 09:42:24 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-227-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:43:34 francogrex: well, I was trying to reduce the problem to giant logical operation on long bitvectors... 09:46:44 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-381.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:47:33 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 09:47:46 p_l: don't waste your energy on it, if it's something easy it's ok, otherwise I can always do it sort of manually (2 by 2 go through the lists). If it's ok I'll just post the problem on cll, there people may take some time and mybe someone has done that before 09:47:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@218.144.41.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:23 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:01:46 fset may be what i need, i'm looking into it now 10:01:47 nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:04:19 Hi! Why do I get "; pipelined request... (swank:frame-locals-and-catch-tags 0) 10:04:37 How do I can I break out? 10:04:49 In Emacs 10:07:28 how old is your slime? 10:07:59 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-35.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:00 and with what implementation on which platform are you using it? 10:08:16 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-35.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:08:58 stassats: I have another version of slime-recompute-modelines. This one actually causes the modeline package to change for me. Shall I paste it? It's from Aidan Kehoe from the xemacs list again. 10:09:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:09:18 I think it is 2010-07-06/sbcl-1.0.22-darwin-ppc 10:09:27 Using Aquamacs emacs 10:09:34 rtoym: paste away 10:09:44 It just gets hang in there 10:10:02 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 10:10:33 Can I send a break somehow? 10:10:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:11:47 There is SLDB on the menu bar, but there is nothing there. 10:11:54 darwin ppc has no threads, so you're probably using NIL-style communication, which is lousy 10:12:09 stassats: Pasted to http://paste.lisp.org/+2FQ0/6. 10:12:29 i don't know how well fd-handler works on sbcl-darwin-ppc 10:13:14 stassats: So should I replcae it with another version? 10:13:18 FWIW, when I had my ppc mac, I always used fd-handler with cmucl. That worked pretty well. At least I don't remember anything major. 10:13:40 This is like tenth time this happens. 10:14:04 peterhil: try putting (setf swank:*communication-style* :fd-handler) in your ~/.swank.lisp 10:14:10 Ok 10:14:38 But there is no any way to get out of the situation wihtout forcing emacs to uit? 10:14:41 quit? 10:15:04 just restart your lisp, not emacs 10:16:03 does SBCL ever need to avoid conflicts with the CL namespace when loading up code on the host? e.g. if you need to define the macro DEFCLASS in the SB!PCL package, SB!PCL uses CL -- how do I get around this? 10:16:09 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:15 But the *inferior-lisp* process is hung. 10:16:26 kill it? 10:16:46 Of course... :-) 10:16:57 gonzojive: unintern, I think 10:16:59 xan_ [~xan@218.144.22.237] has joined #lisp 10:17:34 stassats: Thank you. 10:17:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.90.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:11 gonzojive: this document contains pretty much all info you need on packages http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 10:18:15 Sometimes you forget, the Mac OS X is Unix after all... :-) 10:18:31 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 10:18:46 And when the GUI is stuck you hope it would be even more like Unix... 10:19:03 OliverUv: i'm sure gonzojive knows how packages work 10:19:53 but he didn't seem to know how to exclude a definition after from one package after having using'ed it 10:20:00 iirc that is explained in that .pdf 10:20:18 Also, I've never talked to him so i have no idea of his Lips proficiency 10:20:36 heh, Lisp* 10:20:41 gonzojive was talking about SBCL build process, when you have two sets of packages, host and target 10:21:02 oh 10:21:09 well that is over my head then, sorry 10:22:54 gonzojive: IIRC sb-pcl is only loaded into the target image 10:28:03 I wonder if this is not a very common case because most of the time the host just uses the actual host CL package. but then again it seems like a lot of sb! packages use CL, and also define symbols that seem to conflict. but then again it looks like most of those files are tagged as :not-host. probably not a common case 10:28:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@218.144.22.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:29:59 xan_ [~xan@218.144.22.237] has joined #lisp 10:30:22 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 10:31:54 rtoym: seems to work great 10:38:32 I am trying to download and try Xach's quicklisp. But I get 404 on quicklisp.org/d/quicklisp.lisp. Anyone else also seeing this problem? 10:38:34 rtoym: now that this modeline business seems to be fully solved, regarding completion, i don't really understand what's the difference between comint-replace-by-expanded-filename and comint-dynamic-complete 10:38:45 ruepel0r [~rue@vpnsh0048.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:30 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-165-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:42 ok, i seem to do now 10:41:57 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:42:32 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-189-35.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:44:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 10:45:02 -!- nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:45:08 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-165-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:56 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2257F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:16 stassats: oh yes, and i'm trying to get PCL compiling into the cold core in hopes of one day being able to use CLOS in the compiler itself 10:49:00 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:06 so that it will be even slower? 10:49:47 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:50:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@218.144.22.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:51:16 vu3rdd: join #quicklisp for the URL 10:51:36 spaceface [~spaceface@c-76-105-169-123.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:44 Xach: thanks. will do now 10:53:00 Xach: thanks. Got it 10:53:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A73F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A73F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A73F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:56 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:41 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2257F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:09 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:07:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:12:44 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:45 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:58 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:13:08 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:16:27 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:16:34 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:07 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 11:21:55 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:11 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 11:25:52 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.118.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:33 -!- nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Client Quit] 11:29:22 serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:47 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@vpnsh0048.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:31:58 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 11:32:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:04 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 11:38:44 xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 stassats: not necessarily. Most of the single dispatch could be pay as you go, and CLOS might just help with the double dispatch in type stuff. 11:40:17 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:11 ruepel0r [~rue@91-66-87-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:33 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@91-66-87-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:49:00 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.27.47] has joined #lisp 11:49:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:50:21 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E46211.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:57:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host172-107-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:06:04 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:27 nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:12:21 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:14:55 -!- nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:16:35 nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:18:05 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:18 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:51 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20:33 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:22:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-29.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:20 A day where you use multiple-value-call for profit is a good day. 12:33:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35:34 jdz [~jdz@host248-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:39:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:42:57 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:50:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@host248-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:02 -!- luis changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.10.6, IOLib 0.7.0, SBCL 1.0.41, ABCL 0.21.0, GNU CLISP 2.49 12:55:09 is there a lisp package for drawing graphs? .. i recall something that generated some output-file and fed it to an external program(?) 12:56:01 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.192.244.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 12:57:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:01:09 lnostdal: cliki knows about cl-dot, cl-graphviz, cl-graph, and s-dot. Never used any of them though. 13:07:36 lnostdal: graph as in graphic? 13:07:50 lnostdal: Graphs as in mathematical objects with nodes and edges, or graphs as in pie charts or diagrams? 13:08:08 beach: nodes and edges 13:08:53 lnostdal: CLIM/McCLIM can draw graphs, but the feature is not very sophisticated, and you can use the PostScript backend to generate printed output. 13:10:15 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:50 Dodek [~xyzzyz@87-205-35-228.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 13:14:13 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:18:47 s-dot works .. perhaps i can get emacs to display the results inline too ..... :) 13:20:31 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:48 -!- gzip4_ is now known as gzip4 13:21:26 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:21:45 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 13:24:04 simplechat_ [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:24:09 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 13:24:09 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:25:34 nyquist` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:26:36 ..except, s-dot expect symbols with names such as graph, node, edge ... to belong to the s-dot package .. ah well 13:27:21 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:44 -!- nyquist [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:30:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A73F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:31:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-247.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:25 Colb-Seton [~Colb-Seto@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-27-75.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:37:21 jdz [~jdz@host156-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:26 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:29 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:22 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:41 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:42:54 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.192.244.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:43:01 Hun [~hun@95-90-224-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:12 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:27 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@host156-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:50:11 is '() a literal or a constant variable? 13:51:34 -!- [df]_ is now known as [df] 13:53:00 '() is NIL 13:54:32 ok 13:54:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:17 arbscht: As a form to be evaluated, it's actually (quote nil). 13:56:03 arbscht: and so the evaluator looks at it, sees the quote, and doesn't try to evaluate nil. 13:58:01 arbscht: Had you omitted the quote, it would have been a reference to the (constant) variable nil, and the evaluator would have given you its value, which is also nil. 14:00:00 jdz [~jdz@host156-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:00:39 Are there any CL implementations with existing support for SSE intrinsics like in C? I'm making a contrib for ECL and want to look at prior work for API compatibility reasons, if any exists. 14:02:45 I may be wrong but you can work with sbcl and custom vops 14:02:59 -!- Colb-Seton [~Colb-Seto@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-27-75.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:03:23 No, inline assembly stuff where you have to manage registers yourself doesn't quite count :) 14:04:20 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:26 ok, that was a try :) 14:05:21 In fact, Paul Khuong was working on a similar thing for SBCL about a year ago, but AFAIK didn't progress to the stage of actually defining user-accessible intrinsics. 14:05:24 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 14:05:32 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:05:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:06:11 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D8F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:06:12 -!- trebor_home [~user@188.107.194.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:08:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:03 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has joined #lisp 14:09:53 beach: thanks 14:10:01 No problem. 14:10:08 xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has joined #lisp 14:11:38 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.27.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:00 Thorn [~thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has joined #lisp 14:14:31 How do launchpad-using folks usually triage mailing-list bug reports onto the launchpad bugtracker? Copy & paste? Or can we forward the bug report by email? 14:14:56 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:18:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:49 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:11 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:22:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:13 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:41 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:27:34 Hmm, reporting by email requires signing with PGP. Makes sense. 14:28:24 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 14:28:41 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:29:32 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:29:44 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:30:15 I am now successfully using options with my own presentation types in CLIM2 14:30:39 although it doesn't seem to use the default values 14:30:47 that is something I have no problem working around 14:34:10 http://i.imgur.com/G7WyP.gif 14:37:28 as a commenter said, nowadays haskellers look down on all 14:37:58 the bias' of the chart maker are evident. :) 14:38:21 I'm confused that Java ended up so far below C#; they're basically the same thing ;) 14:38:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:10 And I'm pretty sure that most VB programmers don't even know what Fortran _is_, never mind look down on it :) 14:42:16 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:40 h0ho [~h0ho@cpc3-sprt1-0-0-cust230.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:51 w 16 14:43:54 oops 14:46:07 OliverUv: Congratulations! Perhaps when you are done, you would allow us to include your code as an example in the McCLIM distribution? 14:47:09 you want just the specific case where I am using presenters with options, or the entire calendar? 14:48:02 I was already planning to revamp the calendar to use a non-crazy backend (the one currently in use isn't fit McClim example code) and translating it to English 14:48:17 so I could release it as McClim example code 14:48:55 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.121] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 -!- nyquist` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:51:16 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.191] has joined #lisp 14:52:20 gigamonkey: herep 14:52:29 jhalogen: Hi there. 14:52:39 xach: hey! 14:52:47 nyquist` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:53:06 xach: your simple suggestion to post to lispjobs started quite a chain reaction 14:53:16 completely unbelieable 14:53:50 lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:51 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:34 xach: i'm going to be in and out all day, can you relay this to gigamonkey when you see him: 14:55:45 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:56:04 where is minion? 14:56:05 re: c.a.w. in chinese: xiao says "I don't see a release date...it seems like just people talking about the book series..." 14:56:28 OliverUv: clearly, Xach has replaced him. 14:56:28 jhalogen: you getting a lisp job? :) 14:56:31 haha 14:57:47 oliveuv: i have a lisp company :) 14:57:52 abhinav_m [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #lisp 14:58:53 ah, nice! 14:59:09 glad you seem to be finding people then :D 14:59:14 and finally have a team 14:59:18 that benefits us all 14:59:19 me too 14:59:22 very encouraging 15:00:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:17 as we're going to be open sourcing a lot of lisp code, definitely 15:00:26 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:00:55 jhalogen: what is your project? 15:02:39 fade: hi, we're a cad/cam software and services provider 15:03:47 even our lawyer worked for symbolics :) 15:05:22 well, that's interesting. 15:05:41 what does cad as a service look like? :) 15:05:52 3d assets 15:06:12 and cam production data 15:06:28 so, you generate 3d models of standard parts/features? 15:06:41 humans and their accoutramata, for now 15:06:51 as well as apparel production data 15:06:56 i.e. "patterns" 15:07:00 ahh 15:07:02 that's in use 15:07:34 official press release sept. 30 15:08:42 :) 15:08:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:09 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 -!- h0ho [~h0ho@cpc3-sprt1-0-0-cust230.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 15:09:13 team increased by 800% last week 15:09:19 *team size 15:10:18 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:12 well, that's great. :) 15:11:19 *Xach* can't wait to get his gross points! 15:11:21 -!- abhinav_m [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:11:23 that's rather rapid growth 15:11:49 xach: hahaha 15:11:55 (* 1 8) 15:11:58 -!- abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:12:02 that supposed to be an 8 15:12:17 thanks for the sunglasses, colloquy, just wonderful 15:12:36 (* 1 8 ) 15:12:38 better 15:12:41 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:41 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 jhalogen, "A Common Lisp implemented in Qt"? how do you mean? 15:16:36 *rsynnott* was puzzled about that bit, as well 15:16:41 Qt isn't really a language, surely? 15:16:48 it 15:17:00 it's like the hungarian-lisp, only in C++ 15:17:03 (-; 15:17:36 i.e. trolltech's made their own crap to be portable and self-contained 15:18:28 -!- nyquist` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:59 well, they have that scary meta-object compiler thing, I suppose 15:19:08 jhalogen, so another implementation of CL written in qt'ish c++ classes using moc? 15:20:10 sounds terrifying :D 15:20:34 nus: faust abandoned 15:20:56 nus: abandoned 15:21:01 oops 15:21:03 sorry 15:21:05 brain fried 15:21:14 now tasty 15:23:01 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:23:51 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:09 *Xach* wonders about qtcl port of quicklisp 15:26:12 qtcl? 15:26:25 lispworks deemed sufficient 15:26:34 <_8david> is that the Qt support for TCL? 15:26:56 by smarter lisp'ers than I 15:28:51 is there any CL compiler/interpreter implemented in a subset of CL, so that one can port all of CL by just implementing a few basic parts of it? 15:29:02 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:29 xach: nice, ilc papers deadline extended 15:29:38 OliverUv: i've seen discussion about something like that dating from the 1980s 15:29:44 hans hubner and i will coauthor a paper' 15:30:05 OliverUv: there are some libraries available for something like that. None of them are finished. 15:30:41 isn't beach working on something like that, now? 15:30:45 OliverUv: SICL is the one that has the most active development (which is relative), but it is not the only one 15:31:11 Fade: yup, SICL 15:31:13 hm ok 15:31:15 cool 15:31:30 i knew it had to be in development somewhere 15:32:41 http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl/ 15:32:45 i'm liking what I'm reading 15:32:58 -!- serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:46 serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:06 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:22 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 OliverUv: I think SACLA has the best future ahead of it, yet another approach is http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/index-en.html 15:34:41 madnificent: it froze in time some years ago. 15:34:53 OliverUv: SICL has the best future, damn I need coffee or be cured 15:35:00 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:09 Xach: yeah, 2004 15:35:15 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:35:59 it also makes different (more?) assumptions about the implementation of what is not written 15:36:23 xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has joined #lisp 15:36:50 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:06 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:38:36 -!- vandemar [nonserviam@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:38:48 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:39:34 -!- Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:39:50 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:49 abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #lisp 15:40:55 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:41:00 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:56 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:57 -!- abhinavm is now known as abhinav 15:42:13 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:42:21 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:35 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:52 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:43:05 -!- serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:43:27 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:46 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:43 vandemar [~anon@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 15:45:44 erhm, did anybody public some real stats on resource consumption of web sites using CL? 15:46:19 say, in terms of VM/CPU pressure/load on a VPS? 15:46:55 drewc, around? 15:48:49 *nus* finally gets to watch the latest lispr0n from Xach 15:49:20 nus: wigflip.com is all i have for reference. it uses about 120MB of memory consistently. 15:49:36 cpu is too little to notice 15:49:40 it's on a real server. 15:49:56 Xach: sbcl? 15:50:08 Xach oh, nice to know, thanks. 15:50:18 *nus* looks @ wigflip.com 15:51:50 Xach, any correlation/growth of memusage wrt page hits per time? 15:52:07 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:52:26 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:52:36 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:55 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:53:04 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:33 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:53:34 hmm, forget it, that assumes there're major variations in the use 15:53:42 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:54:39 madnificent: yes 15:54:45 nus: hmm, not really. 15:54:51 nus: I doubt it'll change extremely much for fairly low traffic. The objects are garbage collected afterwards. 15:55:26 madnificent, yep... 15:55:39 Xach, nginx?... frontend? 15:56:18 nus: yes. 15:56:23 tbnl for the frontend. 15:56:30 err 15:56:33 nginx proxies to tbnl. 15:56:40 aha. 15:56:56 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:54 Xach: sbcl is one of the more memory-hungry lisps, right? That may be of interest to nus too 15:57:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:31 gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has joined #lisp 15:58:49 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:59:10 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 factory.homelinux.org seems to take up 25M RES 16:01:43 -!- eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:55 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:59 madnificent, which CL implementation? 16:05:12 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:05:17 nus: sbcl 16:05:21 and, I guess, the load is close to zero? 16:05:36 nus: yup, but the traffic might even be closer to zero 16:05:48 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:05:51 uhuh 16:06:02 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 16:06:07 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:06:08 it is running on an old laptop, but it runs fairly fast. The bain bottleneck is the upload speed. 16:06:08 *Xach* generates around 10,000 graphics per day 16:06:29 Xach: your server is less lonely than me 16:06:34 also, 10000 hits is not at all that bad 16:06:41 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:40 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:08:00 Xach: all through Vecto? 16:08:47 madnificent: no. a mix of vecto, skippy, and other things. 16:08:50 -!- vandemar [~anon@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:06 vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 16:09:26 madnificent: this blogworks thing is one of your programs? 16:10:02 Fade: yeah, it was a proof of concept of clayworks... and as such it isn't polished whatsoever 16:10:08 it was fun to toy with though 16:10:14 what is clayworks? 16:10:38 a web framework I wrote 16:11:13 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:35 what are its characteristics? 16:12:03 it doesn't try to enforce its structure too much on the user and it tries to be friendly towards new lispers 16:12:05 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-01553.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:19 madnificent: is it blogworks.in ? 16:12:40 Because that site isn't showing properly with non-standard default font size in the browser (which I use due to poor sight) 16:12:45 I basically got tired of rails and wrote how that could've been a bit nicer imho 16:13:07 OliverUv: factory.homelinux.org (and I'm not a CSS wizkid, I'll hurt your eyes!) 16:14:06 -!- eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:16 Fade: I'll probably revamp the backend of the routing and flow (MVC part) in the future. I want to make it easier to extend it, as that was the point of the framework 16:14:18 -!- vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:28 when time comes 16:14:50 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has joined #lisp 16:15:03 OliverUv: if there's something wrong with the CSS for you and you know how to fix it easily, I'll update the css for you... It's not like I want to make life hard on you 16:15:48 is clayworks being used in production anywhere? 16:16:58 I think it still is, but not on the internet. I wrote some software a year ago (not open source) for an extended butchery. 16:17:46 madnificent: ah, I just thought I'd notify you so you know 16:18:01 in the future, try to make everything em relative instead of using % 16:18:23 OliverUv: is it wrong on factory.homelinux.org too? The top banner is probably off, the rest should be fine 16:18:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:18:29 *madnificent* is scared of css 16:18:51 Fade: though that used fridge as the database backend, not bknr.datastore (which has been tested more in the past) 16:19:45 yeah factory.homelinux.org looks ok except for Welcome, which is displaying both on the dark and the white background 16:22:42 OliverUv: should be fixed now 16:24:03 k 16:24:16 yep, looks good 16:24:16 Kizaru [zalp@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:27 yay, a css change that actually didn't try to hurt me 16:26:47 -!- Kizaru [zalp@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:28:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:34 leadnose_ [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:38:18 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:42:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:43:41 urandom_ [~user@p548A73CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:42 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 16:43:56 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:47:45 vandemar [spin@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 16:50:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:04 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:23 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.46.192] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:02 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:57:23 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:43 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 17:03:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.121] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:57 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:23 abugosh1 [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:32 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:21 serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:08:31 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:48 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:09:51 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:23 -!- abugosh1 [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:17 Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:13:03 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:30 Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:17:06 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:40 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 17:32:08 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:34:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-103.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:34:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:37:17 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 17:37:51 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-121-193.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:21 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 17:52:55 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:55:42 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:46 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:18 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:22 francogrex [~user@109.130.90.129] has joined #lisp 18:00:29 madnificent: Hi, if I recall correctly, you are locate in belgium? 18:00:36 Fade: Indeed I am working on something like that. 18:02:51 [and good evening everyone] 18:03:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-97-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:04:42 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:50 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.90.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:51 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 18:07:47 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-97-16.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:47 Good evening, beach! :) 18:11:45 pavelludiq [~user@83.222.175.142] has joined #lisp 18:12:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host115-120-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:14:25 beach: How often do you go to the beach from Bordeaux? I'm ashamed to confess that when I lived in Bordeaux, I never went to the beach... 18:14:26 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.121] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:26 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 18:14:43 pjb: Not often. I don't particularly like it. 18:15:18 Well, going to the beach, and living on it is not the same thing... 18:15:20 pjb: I go there with visitors who like the waves of Lacanaux or the calm of the bay of Archachon. 18:15:41 *Arcachon 18:16:08 So your nicks are invitations! :-) 18:16:29 pjb: No, translations of my name from Swedish into those languages. 18:17:07 pjb: "strand" means "beach" or "shore". 18:17:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:17:16 Ok. 18:18:56 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Quit: bye!] 18:21:51 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 18:22:44 heya, beach 18:23:24 drewc: I've finally taken your advice of designing around protocols seriously and applied it. The difference is almost like night and day. 18:23:42 It's embarrassing that it took me this long to get it (or rather, 'get it' as much as I have at this point) 18:27:53 ew, writing code to fit in 256 byte is sure ugly 18:28:36 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-224-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:08 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:25 sykopomp: You must not have read the CLIM 2 specification. 18:29:38 sykopomp: That's how *I* got it. 18:29:38 beach: I did not, no :( 18:30:22 beach: now I wish that CLOS had first-class protocols that you had to define in one fell swoop. 18:30:31 but maybe that's too restrictive. 18:30:37 sykopomp: In fact, I was not impressed by OO techniques before reading it. And at the same time I realized how superior CLOS is to other object systems. 18:31:12 beach: besides writing your code around defgeneric instead of defclass+defmethod, what jumped out at you? 18:31:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:29 beach: By the way, are you at the "University Campus I" in Bordeaux? 18:32:05 sykopomp: The use of multiple dispatch, the use of method combinations, the use of trampolines to allow multiple dispatch, etc, etc, etc. 18:32:45 serichsen: Yes, I am a professor at the university of Bordeaux, faculty of science and technology, also known as Bordeaux 1. 18:33:06 beach: Next year, the European Go Congress will be there. :) 18:33:26 Go, the board game? 18:33:27 serichsen: Oh, are you going? When is it? 18:33:34 stassats: Yes. 18:33:45 beach: trampolines? 18:33:53 beach: Two weeks between July and August. 18:34:02 I'm not sure what you mean by a trampoline for the purpose of multiple dispatch. 18:34:18 sykopomp: By tramplines, I mean things like having present call stream-present so that stream-present can specialize on a stream. 18:34:42 serichsen: OK, I'll be back from Vietnam by then. Show up if you like. 18:34:44 beach: I do not know yet whether I can manage to go. 18:34:48 beach: ah. 18:35:32 sykopomp: The CLIM 2 spec is full of techniques like that. You should read it even if you are not the least interested in GUI libraries. 18:35:51 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 18:35:57 jaiball [~justin@c-76-119-131-178.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:13 beach: this makes me want to go over AMOP again to see if I can figure out why they didn't use the same techniques there. 18:36:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:30 (or, if they did, see if I can learn anything new) 18:36:49 sykopomp: Yeah, good plan! 18:37:48 serichsen: Well, if you do, you can have our guest room. It will cut down on your hotel bill. 18:38:19 beach: actually, this is really bothering me now. 18:38:23 Why do we need standard-class? 18:38:42 sykopomp: I don't understand why you ask. 18:39:04 simard [~user@modemcable131.222-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:39:16 in order to extend stuff with the mop, we need to subclass standard-class, right? 18:39:20 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:30 is there a nice way of interacting between C and common lisp ? 18:39:32 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:43 simard: CFFI 18:40:02 simard: http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/ 18:40:11 nice, thank you ! 18:40:12 simard: or, if you don't care for portability, your implementation's own interface 18:40:12 sykopomp: Oh, I am not that current wrt the MOP. 18:40:40 sykopomp: standard class provides standard behaviour 18:41:46 sykopomp: Providing protocol classes is just a convenient way of supplying defaults for some methods. 18:42:53 beach: huh? protocol classes usually don't have any methods specializing on them.. they are used for classification of objects 18:42:57 stassats: are you allowed to implement the protocol without subclassing standard-class? I thought the subclassing was enforced. 18:43:15 beach: then you define a standard-foo class derived from the protocol class and default behavior on that 18:43:20 (but I guess it's not?) 18:43:41 beach: right... and I think I just learned a hell of a lot about the MOP :) 18:43:56 there is also STRUCTURE-CLASS 18:45:12 adeht: Am I misremembering? I thought you could use the protocol class to define convenient methods on protocol generic function that would work, but that wouldn't be efficient, such as defining write-string in terms of write-char. 18:45:55 stassats: aha :D 18:46:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:03 beach: http://www.mikemac.com/mikemac/clim/conventions.html#2.5 "A protocol class is an ``abstract'' class with no slots and no methods (except perhaps for some default methods), and exists only to indicate that some subclass obeys the protocol." 18:47:23 OK. 18:47:28 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:47:30 usually the "default methods" is relegated to basic-foo or standard-foo classes 18:49:02 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:49:53 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 18:49:57 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:50:05 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.46.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:52:14 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B626.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:54:46 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:55 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-49-113.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:45 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:00:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:02:32 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.10.20] has joined #lisp 19:03:57 adeht: I'd say the sentence you quoted supports what beach said 19:04:12 defining write-string in terms of write-char could easily be done on the protocol class, and should 19:04:58 rahul: then I suggest you read it again 19:05:13 especially the "exists only to indicate that some subclass obeys the protocol" part 19:05:27 adeht: I suggest you read the part in parens... 19:05:37 that's exactly what beach was talking about 19:06:03 rahul: from the context, I take it that a method may be defined for type discrimination if it's more efficient than a TYPEP test 19:06:33 adeht: that's one thing 19:06:42 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-41-218.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:06:54 and then there's the kinds of things that beach said 19:06:55 rahul: if you interpret it otherwise, you may want to look at the practice in CLIM of defining default behavior 19:07:25 adeht: there's a difference between standard and default 19:07:25 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:49 ? 19:07:52 default usually means some sort of "reference implementation" that could be optimized in the specific subclass 19:08:25 standard means a kind of implementation that has all the basic behaviors one would want by default 19:09:04 I don't know why you think that's relevant.. but anyway, I won't bother arguing 19:09:21 like standard-class allows multiple inheritance because that's the most allowing way of doing things 19:09:38 you could create a single-inheritance-class that disallows MI for efficiency 19:10:24 sykopomp: I wrote first-class protocols for CLOS 19:10:58 What efficiency is lost in multiple inheritance when you have 'static' lineariation?? 19:11:01 but defining in one fell swoop contradicts the concept of dynamism. I have a function that tests a class for completeness in the implementation of its protocols 19:11:05 sykopomp: who knows 19:11:11 sykopomp: it was just a random example 19:11:22 rahul: I agree as far as dynamism goes, yeah. 19:11:35 the test can be part of your unit tests 19:11:39 so then -- 'protocol classes' are a pretty reasonable way of doing this stuff? 19:12:08 sykopomp: if I understand what you want to do, but I only have a vague idea of that 19:13:02 rahul: ensure that something follows a protocol, without tying it to a particular representation. 19:13:05 sykopomp: but yes, it's a good way of allowing high-level functionality to be expressed, and then ensure that specific implementations of that functionality are complete 19:13:06 rahulll 19:13:16 sykopomp: yeah, check out my protocols library 19:13:18 rahul: you were featured in a blast from the past visualization last week. 19:13:21 xachhhhhh 19:13:22 hm. Actually, protocol classes don't achieve that either. 19:13:25 hmm 19:13:28 http://xach.com/tmp/l.html 19:13:39 IRC activity chart 19:13:47 rahul: link? Does your library enforce 'one fell swoop' definition, or were you saying that you opted not to? 19:14:18 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:14:23 Xach: must be very much the past 19:14:28 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-222-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 Xach: looks like it's from my ITA days 19:14:36 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-222-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:37 or maybe my unemployed days 19:14:42 -!- benny [~user@i577A1153.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:56 sykopomp: not one fell swoop implementation, but it provides the function to use in unit tests 19:15:11 rahul: link, then? 19:15:23 http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/protocols/?root=rjain-utils 19:15:33 and it's metacircular 19:15:43 rahul: do you use it a lot? 19:15:47 protocol is a protocol, and standard-protocol is an implementation of it 19:16:04 sykopomp: I try to use it in most of the lisp code I've written since it's been stable 19:16:06 Xach: that's kind of awesome. 19:16:13 rahul: did you see quicklisp? 19:16:22 Xach: no 19:16:32 rahul: file timestamp is 2008 19:16:43 redline6561: thanks. it's a variation of the movie chart code. 19:17:18 rahul: I think you'd like it. It includes SERIES! 19:17:45 heh 19:18:01 Xach: does it use the host package management system or its own independent one? 19:18:23 independent. 19:18:39 meh 19:18:59 we have lots of package management systems that screw up the host OS's package management already 19:19:15 Xach: Is the movie chart code actually available online somewhere (i.e. not just vecto)? 19:19:38 redline6561: Nope. 19:19:47 Xach: Cool. Just wanted to make sure. :) 19:20:38 ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has joined #lisp 19:20:55 Xach: it sounds almost exactly like cclan 19:21:50 "this isn't meant for people who are trying to hack on the library" 19:22:00 ... but it's only going to be used by those people... 19:22:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 because people who don't want to hack on the library aren't going to want to learn another package management tool 19:22:42 nor do they want to learn about the interactions between the host package manager and this niche package manager 19:23:03 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-173-14.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:09 this is a major problem with cpan and all the things that are modelled on it 19:24:31 <_8david> I don't believe that. A large fraction of clbuild users don't really need version controlled history. Then there is the huge number of people who mistakenly use asdf-install because it seemed like the easiest option to them. These two contingents together make up a large potential user base for quicklisp. 19:25:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.217.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:57 is the point to just replace what we already have and not make lisp any more usable by the general public? 19:26:41 or is the point to allow us to distribute lisp applications to people in a simple way that doesn't involve effectively static linking? 19:27:49 (granted, there are times you want to use static linking, but that's only if you don't trust the package management skills of your users, and adding another package manager just increases the level of sophistication needed from your users in terms of them being able to guess at potential bad interactions) 19:28:10 rahul: I'd like to make CL libraries easily available on platforms where CL runs, not just on a particular flavor of Linux. 19:28:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:33 Xach: I wouldn't advise using this on any flavor of linux... 19:28:46 at least not any flavor that has any lisp compilers 19:28:54 brainhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 Xach: I want to use libraries but I don't want to go hacking inside them. I assume this is a good use-case for quicklisp? 19:29:39 -!- brainhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:42 OliverUv: It might be. 19:30:10 Also, it seems easier to use quicklisp to install something than just using vanilla asdf, so I think anybody who just wants to use a lisp app is a good target usergroup 19:30:27 OliverUv: "better than nothing" is not good 19:30:33 asdf doesn't actually install anything. maybe you're thinking of asdf-install? 19:30:40 yes, asdf-install 19:30:42 sorry 19:30:46 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 19:31:05 OliverUv: military dictatorship is better than anarchy, too 19:31:12 that doesn't mean that it's desirable 19:31:41 i don't see how quicklisp is reminiscent of military dictatorship 19:31:48 -!- Thorn [~thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has left #lisp 19:31:53 it is opt-in 19:31:58 . . . 19:32:22 but I butted into the conversation without reading much about what you have been discussing and am probably assuming things and making a fool out of myself 19:32:45 I actually just wanted to tell Xach I appreciate what he is doing and tell him he should keep doing it 19:32:45 yes, you're assuming that I equated things when I was just talking about comparisons 19:33:00 OliverUv: context so far: "I think you would like quicklisp." "I think not!" 19:33:08 Xach: ok 19:33:08 rahul: I don't think the size of the lisp community makes it practical to implement different solutions for different package managers. 19:33:20 Xach: well, I like it as much as I like cpan 19:33:41 sykopomp: why would you need different solutions for different package managers? 19:33:55 rahul: because different package managers like putting things in different places. 19:33:59 Xach: better than nothing, but not useful to the general public 19:34:08 xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.162] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 sykopomp: lisp allows parameters to be passed to functions, fortunately 19:34:39 rahul: Sorry, my assumption is that you think it's best to implement something that directly integrates with the native package manager of 19:35:01 sykopomp: in fact, you could define a protocol called host-package-manager and define generic-functions that describe the locations and behaviors of it :D 19:35:17 sykopomp: s/linux distro/host OS/ 19:35:27 right 19:35:29 sykopomp: and yes, direct integrations is quite simple to implement 19:35:47 as long as there are people who use that OS who can actually program 19:35:48 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:57 which, sadly, doesn't seem to be the case for windows 19:36:30 hehe 19:37:38 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:44 as far as doing what we already have, but doing it better, quicklisp is probably a Good Thing 19:37:44 rahul: I'm not convinced that's the best solution. 19:37:56 sykopomp: it's the only viable one for the general public 19:38:16 sykopomp: power users are a different group, and the tools we have now cater to them 19:38:22 rahul: People who specifically want to fetch Common Lisp source code and participate in the lisp community are not the General Public. 19:38:44 sykopomp: so we only allow people to use lisp code if they're part of the community? 19:39:20 sykopomp: are people who use C applications part of the C community? why is lisp different in this way? 19:40:15 "It looks like you want to install an application written in lisp. First, you must drink this kool aid. Then you must learn how to use IRC." 19:40:31 heheh 19:40:32 rahul: What I'm trying to say is that tying it to the native package manager causes other issues that I don't think we're quite prepared for dealing with. 19:40:51 sykopomp: the host package manager deals with the issues. that's the point. 19:41:11 rahul: but it's the lisp community that has to end up supporting the silly variations. 19:41:34 sykopomp: which only requires one programmer to use the target platform 19:41:36 if you can provide full support at the debian level for all those custom-packaged lisp libraries, that's great. 19:41:46 sykopomp: been there, done that. 19:41:55 I don't think we're going to be able to handle that, and it didn't seem to work when people tried. 19:42:06 sykopomp: and my solution is extensible to all other host package managers 19:42:12 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 suddenly, #lisp gets random visitors who can't get a library to work, and they expect us to know whatever wizardry the native package manager pulled off that isn't quite working anymore. 19:42:25 there's probably a simple way of calling a shell command from sbcl ? 19:42:30 well, it's missing one thing: querying for all lisp impls and parsing them 19:42:59 sounds impractical. 19:43:02 sykopomp: that's usually because people want the system to not mess up if they do any arbitrary crap 19:43:24 simard: there's sb-ext:run-program, or you could try trivial-shell 19:43:30 _practically_ speaking, telling lisp users to do sbcl, (load "quicklisp.lisp") ..., (ql:quickload 'library) is quite nice. 19:43:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:38 sykopomp: the last bug I heard of in debian's lisp package management was added because people were complaining about it breaking clbuild 19:43:59 sykopomp: people with such problems could always be redirected to #quicklisp 19:44:09 sykopomp: _lisp_ users are not _computer_ users 19:44:23 in terms of set equality (not subset) 19:44:23 adeht: thank you 19:44:36 rahul: Even if this doesn't turn out to be useful for Linux systems with useful Lisp packages, I hope the metadata gathered for it can be useful for packagers. Things like source locations, system relationships, licenses, etc. 19:44:37 sykopomp: as I said, power users 19:44:57 Xach: that should already be part of the .asd 19:45:04 rahul: I guess I'm thinking more about getting development environments set up. 19:45:08 Xach: at least, that's where my code pulls it from 19:45:18 sykopomp: so you're beyond power users 19:45:23 rahul: indeed. 19:45:36 sykopomp: and I think Xach said explicitly in his intro that it's not for those kinds of users 19:45:40 rahul: That hasn't been my experience in surveying hundreds of system files. 19:45:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:46:01 rahul: by "source location 19:46:19 ", I mean "where do I download the sources?" not "what are the source files". 19:46:23 Xach: shrug. not my problem if they don't specify things they want propagated. provide a reasonable default and move on. 19:46:36 Xach: why would anyone download source code to use an application? 19:46:43 insanux [~hola@83.54.50.234] has joined #lisp 19:47:05 why does lisp have to be more difficult all the time? 19:47:41 isn't lisp about making trivial problems disappear so we can focus on the hard ones? 19:48:33 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:33 I think this will make one aspect of Lisp life easier. If I have time, I'll try tackling more. 19:49:17 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 19:49:54 hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:50:44 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 19:51:15 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 hmm 19:53:31 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-381.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:10 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0265.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:55:10 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0265.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 19:55:10 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 tayloj [~tayloj@raptor-03.dynamic.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 19:56:23 what is wrong with this ? (sb-ext:run-program "ls" '("-al") :output "Lisp/output.txt") output.txt ends up being empty 19:56:36 simard: :search t 19:56:40 simard: or "/bin/ls" 19:56:53 oh 19:56:56 right, thanks 19:57:04 stassats: Probably irrelevant but I wanted to let you know that 1. I already thought that metabang-bind is inappropriate in 98%+ of cases where it could be used, I really just planned to use it in cases where I'd otherwise have 3 or more levels of binding form indentation with a nontrivial body 19:57:05 run-program is like exec, not system 19:58:16 And 2. after trying to use it, and factoring the additional complexity of pulling that dependency in just to use it in very few cases, I decided it's not worth it. 20:01:03 ikki [~ikki@189.228.117.192] has joined #lisp 20:01:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:01:26 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:06:30 -!- hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:08:15 what's the best way of calling sb-ext and returning the program's output as a string ? right now I make-string-output-stream, pass it to sb-ext:run-program as :output, and (get-output-stream-string) it 20:08:21 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:08:42 simard: with-output-to-string is another way 20:09:16 simard: (with-output-to-string (stream) (sb-ext:run-program "/bin/ls" '("-l") :output stream)) 20:09:52 hum good enough 20:11:26 igaray [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 20:11:27 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-6-130.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:36 -!- igaray [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has left #lisp 20:12:46 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:07 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-53-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:13:36 jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:15:32 I suppose a small nicety would be to permit :STRING as a possible output designator 20:18:01 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 just make it nil like for format 20:18:53 At work I'm using a macro with-format-destination all the time 20:19:31 tcr: NIL already has a meaning in that context 20:19:49 -!- gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:21:24 igaray [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 20:21:32 a stupid meaning 20:21:55 what should I be using for sockets under sbcl ? 20:22:13 is there some simple and up-to-date library out there ? 20:22:38 minion: usocket 20:22:38 usocket: usocket is an MIT-licensed sockets networking library providing a portability layer encapsulating implementation specific sockets programming details. http://www.cliki.net/usocket 20:22:43 benny [~user@i577A8A24.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:51 should I use the SVN version ? 20:22:56 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 20:23:00 or the 2008 release 20:23:01 -!- igaray [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:06 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 20:23:19 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 svn 20:26:22 or I'll just invoke wget :) 20:26:32 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.10.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:21 that's a bad idea 20:27:30 why so ? 20:27:32 minion: please tell simard about drakma 20:27:32 simard: please see drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp HTTP client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 20:27:48 simard: because it involves invoking of wget 20:28:17 and wget is especially bad ? 20:29:06 simard: it's not bad for casual use or for making something work quickly. it's not as nice if you invoke it 100 times per second. 20:29:18 *Xach* uses sb-ext:run-program for such simple things all the time 20:29:28 I understand that, right now I don't expect volume 20:34:43 hum I get an error: Illegal :UTF-8 character starting at byte position 168. 20:34:59 thats from a webpage, theres an é there 20:35:43 probably the with-output-to-string that's UTF-8 by defaut and the page has something outside UTF-8 ? 20:36:18 with-output-to-string doesn't car about encoding 20:36:26 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 20:36:31 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:57 simard: drakma would take care of that for you. 20:37:09 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:37:24 :) 20:37:29 ok ok 20:37:36 I'll give it a try 20:38:37 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.1.208] has joined #lisp 20:40:42 -!- seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E46211.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:43 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:21 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:01 davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:10 jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:43:50 is drakma retrievable from asdf-install ? 20:43:55 doesn't seem to work for me 20:44:11 TheD0n [~TheDon@pool-98-117-113-41.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:25 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:44:43 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:03 simard: I think it usually is. What happened when you tried? 20:45:34 rahul: How should simard install drakma? 20:46:37 debugger invoked on a ASDF:MISSING-COMPONENT in thread # but it did download the tar.gz 20:46:47 and untar it 20:47:07 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:30 simard: weird. 20:47:42 altough it did say as well: The function ASDF::SPLIT is undefined. 20:48:18 hmm, i think asdf-install was broken by the move to asdf2 in sbcl 20:48:26 -!- bytecolor [~user@70.133.78.199] has left #lisp 20:48:43 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/612998 20:48:59 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:50:17 simard: that is a bit sad. i'll try to submit a patch sometime soon. 20:51:01 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has left #lisp 20:51:29 -!- TheD0n [~TheDon@pool-98-117-113-41.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 20:52:07 FYI, there is a straightforward workaround to that bug (if you don't mind rebuilding SBCL)....I think I mentioned it in that bug that if asdf::split is just replaced with asdf::split-string, then GPG verifications works as expected. Much simpler than integrating another ASDF2...albeit hacky. :) 20:52:16 wasn't there already a patch somewhere? 20:53:51 was there? 20:55:17 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 20:56:58 hargettp: I don't really mind rebuilding sbcl 20:58:13 simard: mind you, that advice is based on having 1.0.40 (that's where the bug was introduced)...look for contrib/asdf-install/installer.lisp, and change the only reference to asdf::split to asdf::split-string...and build SBCL again. Been working great for me since. 20:58:34 I have 1.0.40 20:58:45 ok 20:59:52 simard: it is interesting tho...I did not receive any "missing component" conditions (because the failure is sort of earlier in the process), so I wonder if there was an earlier condition you hit, too, but didn't notice 21:00:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:00:32 well, I'm compiling sbcl now, so I'll tell you afterward 21:00:38 simard: :) 21:02:05 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:55 coyO [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:08:41 *sykopomp* wonders if it's possible to (barring 11.1.2.1.2) implement the CLOS MOP such that hash tables can be classes and instances. 21:08:54 (or alists!) 21:09:22 hargettp: seems to be working :) 21:09:29 simard: yay :) 21:09:33 it's going through dependencies right now 21:09:35 thank you ! 21:09:40 simard: you're welcome! 21:10:33 (of which there are a lot !) 21:10:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:51 package "MOP" not found 21:12:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:12:19 Continue, treating # on # as being successful ? 21:12:48 simard: ah...LIFT is unfortunately busted as installed via ASDF-INSTALL.... 21:12:57 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 21:13:07 so I should abort 21:13:11 simard: last suggestion I saw for that issue was to exit the installation (abort, Ctl-C)...yeah, abort 21:13:46 -!- askatasuna is now known as lordakinator 21:13:52 simdar: then try again...the idea is to get past the LIFT installation (since the files should already be in place now), so that ASDF-INSTALL can move on with the rest of the packages 21:14:37 simdar: unfortunately, LIFT has been broken since about April...I do know changes were checked in to Github (IIRC), but no new *.targ.gz archive created 21:14:59 so I should get the git version of lift and install it manually ? 21:15:26 simard: could do that. The fixes specific to this issue were checked in, so should work. 21:16:09 ok now how do you install a package like that ? 21:16:10 hehe 21:16:15 I mean from the git folder 21:16:25 as in, whitout asdf-install 21:18:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:14 simard: do you know hwere your installation is putting other such packages? 21:19:28 /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/ 21:19:33 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:19:44 prolly a matter of copying files 21:19:47 gimme a moment 21:20:01 simard: okay, then the contents of the lift folder should go in sbcl/site, and a symlink to the lift.asd file shoudl go in sbcl/systems 21:20:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:20:46 simard: i.e., there hsould be some lift/ folder from git that you can just copy as a folder under sbcl/site 21:20:53 yeah lift is already there 21:21:09 i'll copy the new files 21:21:21 simard: could try your install of drakma again...b4 copy 21:21:45 simard: lift is just a testing framework...not required to run 21:21:50 ok 21:22:04 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:27 is there a way to tell sbcl to stop bugging me with gpg checks ? 21:22:35 I guess I should install gpg 21:22:41 simard: :) 21:22:51 simard: better safe than sorry :) 21:23:17 I seem to have gpg.. is there something else I'm missing ? 21:23:23 some gpg package from asdf ? 21:23:28 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:02 http://twoguysarguing.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/asdf-install-and-gpg-signatures/ 21:26:13 it seems drakma is popular ;) 21:26:17 simard: yes :) 21:26:56 simard: you're finding the right pages...coping with GPG signature verification is part of the process...will take time to get an environment where they "disappear" 21:26:56 \ 21:31:02 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 21:38:07 Hi 21:38:59 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #lisp 21:39:14 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:39:28 LiamH: Did you get any further with the fft test problems? 21:40:44 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:44:14 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 21:44:22 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #lisp 21:49:11 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A73CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:24 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:28 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:29 What code does what (loop repeat n collect x finally collect y) looks like it should do? 21:52:48 (i.e. build a list of n 'x's and one 'y', in that order) 21:53:18 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@cs181223235.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:53:26 preferably, what loop code 21:53:41 and I'm looking for something cleaner than (nreverse (cons y (loop ...))) 21:54:59 no code 21:55:14 -!- davazp [~user@99.Red-88-25-185.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:58:53 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:59:17 wat 21:59:50 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 22:00:08 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 You could try (loop repeat n collect x into result finally (cons y result)) 22:01:00 That is, if you don't mind y being the car of the result of the loop form 22:01:31 that's kind of exactlyw what I didn't want 22:01:44 Oh, there should be a return there somewhere 22:01:47 what should be the permissions of files in /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/ set to ? 22:02:14 I installed a few things in this location with asdf-install with a sudo sbcl and now when I run sbcl as a user I get permission problems 22:03:28 simard: i thin you should remove those files and just install as a user. 22:03:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:04:16 hum 22:05:03 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@raptor-03.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:32 why so ? 22:05:37 Ralith: ok, how about ... return (nconc result (cons y nil))) 22:06:11 Sikander: No, sorry, not yet. 22:06:31 simard: well, maybe not. what permission problem do you get? 22:06:46 Sikander: not really what I was hoping for :/ 22:06:53 LiamH: Ok. 22:07:07 Ralith: Ok, but I think it does what you want 22:07:59 yeah, plenty of things do 22:08:09 What is it then, that you are hoping for? 22:08:16 something loop-based 22:08:22 rather than modifying the result of the loop 22:08:45 Sikander: I'll look at it again tonight. I got hung up in trying to do norm-equal tests on foreign arrays, but I think it's better to just convert to CL arrays and use the existing functions. 22:09:20 -!- freiksenet1 [~freiksene@cs181223235.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:58 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:11:34 Ralith: finally doesn't allow loop-like words after it, just a form. 22:12:00 Ralith: You could repeat for (+ 1 n) and build in an extra when 22:13:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:58 (loop for i = 0 to n when (= i n) collect y else collect x) 22:15:22 Ralith: See ^ 22:16:06 LiamH: Ok. I'm busy with some other stuff anyway, and should go to bed in time today as well. 22:16:36 Sikander: OK, when I see you again I'll let you know what I've concluded. 22:16:50 oops, should be (loop for i from 0 to n ... 22:17:12 LiamH: Ok, thanks. 22:17:51 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-381.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:20:30 Sikander: ah, that's an idea 22:20:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@host156-104-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:04 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:03 Ralith: But it does require a check every time, even though you already know when y should be appended. 22:23:07 luis: Thanks for the response. FSBV has grown a bit since I sent that email, and I agree with the principals you put in the bug report; i.e., if it's integrated correctly into CFFI it shouldn't require (any?) extra macros. 22:24:00 Sikander: it's not really a matter of optimization so much as elegance 22:25:08 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:26:08 Ok 22:26:24 Anyway, goodnight 22:26:37 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 22:26:47 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep] 22:28:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29:31 -!- wubo [80f40909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.244.9.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:36 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:31:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:37:10 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f113.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:51 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:17 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 22:43:20 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:44:46 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:26 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:35 Kae [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:45:54 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:38 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:39 -!- phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:46:53 phadthai [mmondor@66.11.161.166] has joined #lisp 22:47:17 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:50:46 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:59 -!- prip [~foo@host65-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:02 how do i control how files are loaded with asdf 22:53:11 i am trying to port a large project over to asdf 22:53:16 and all my files compile 22:53:26 if i do (asdf:oos 'asdf:compile-op 22:53:36 but as soon as i do load-op i get errors 22:53:40 xreact [~xreact@c-67-190-103-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:50 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:06 -!- xreact [~xreact@c-67-190-103-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:09 prip [~foo@host65-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:56:47 PuffTheMagic: Have you written an asd file for your project? 22:57:10 yeah 22:57:14 its one large file 22:58:17 abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-28.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:23 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:36 simard` [~user@modemcable131.222-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:58:46 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:59:00 PuffTheMagic: are you hitting problems because individual files are loading out of order? 22:59:05 -!- simard [~user@modemcable131.222-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:39 hargettp, i am assuming that is the problem, i haven't added any depends-on yet 22:59:52 trying to figure both the old homemade system and asdf at same time 23:00:08 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:00:11 PuffTheMagic: I gave up and added a :serial t to my defsystem declarations :) 23:00:29 hargettp: feels a bit like cheating, but at least can easily sort through dependencies visually 23:00:36 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:44 -!- ineiros_ [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:51 PuffTheMagic: hah, that was for you:) 23:01:52 k 23:02:33 ineiros_ [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:03:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:33 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:06:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:04 -!- serichsen [~user@f048201061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 23:07:09 are options inherited 23:07:31 if i set serial t at the top level will it be t in all my components? 23:08:13 no 23:08:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-96-255-9-28.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:34 -!- spaceface [~spaceface@c-76-105-169-123.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:31 Adamant_ [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 23:19:50 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:23 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f113.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:20:25 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:25 -!- Adamant_ is now known as Adamant 23:20:32 ok so its not breaking because of order 23:20:45 its breaking because of undefined functions 23:20:52 slot accessors to structs 23:20:54 hmm 23:21:31 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:21:33 PuffTheMagic: that can still be a result of order...although that's not the only cause of that error...are function definitions being loaded before the files that use them? 23:24:52 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:05 well the thing is... when I egrep for them, they are never defined 23:28:48 PuffTheMagic: struct slot accessors get automatically created when you use defstruct...so perhaps you are using the struct before the defstruct form has been loaded? 23:29:46 -!- PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29:48 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 23:29:48 i had to add a defstruct 23:29:59 but why would this error only show up when making an asdf package 23:30:05 and not when i used this code before 23:30:10 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:21 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.142] has joined #lisp 23:31:35 you didn't have the defstruct before? I'm confused 23:31:41 PuffTheMagic: hard to say...although testing an ASDF package without starting with a fresh REPL can lead to incorrect results...that is, having a definition loaded can mask the fact the ASDF as written will not cause the definition to be loaded first 23:32:11 *where "loaded in REPL" means typing it in or eval'ing it from a file while you work 23:32:26 Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 23:32:43 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-7-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:42:00 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:42:16 jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:45:41 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:49:54 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:48 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.1.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:48 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:43 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:23 -!- insanux [~hola@83.54.50.234] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:57:02 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:59:38 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-96-228-119-151.albyny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp