00:07:34 I finally took the plunge and started to use emacs. And packaged one of my projects properly. 00:08:08 I have one problem though: component #:ALEXANDRIA not found, required by # 00:08:32 I can't get it to load as part of the asd 00:09:02 peterhil: did you install alexandria? 00:09:10 I think I did... 00:09:56 i think you specified the dependency wrong 00:10:29 you should put :depends-on (alexandria) at the top-level of defsystem body 00:10:59 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-108-227.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:41 Actually it seems it wasn't installed for sbcl. I thought it got installed it when I required it. 00:11:51 stassats: Ok 00:14:34 -!- coyo is now known as coyo|taking-a-wa 00:14:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:08 I guess the fact that franz lisp source files are named with a '.cl' extention is an artifact of windows? 00:17:19 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:42 i wouldn't think so 00:19:25 emacs lisp = el ; common lisp = cl 00:20:03 Common-lispers are smug enough to think that they're lisp is the only true Lisp 00:20:19 s/they're/their/ 00:20:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:46 stassats: but.... but... it is 00:21:00 madnificent: i know 00:22:42 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has left #lisp 00:22:56 has anyone tried having some statistical fun with #lisp logs? :) 00:23:08 yes 00:23:25 Xach did 00:24:20 using his award winning chart plotter 00:24:53 again Xach ?! thanks stassats, I'll go look.. :D 00:25:41 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-108-227.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 00:26:21 -!- coyo|taking-a-wa is now known as coyo 00:27:23 Hmmm, it doesn't still load it. 00:30:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:33:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 00:34:01 peterhil: is the directory in which the asd file resides in the load-path of your asdf? 00:36:33 peterhil: asdf:*central-registry* is the variable containing the directories asdf will traverse to search for the asd file 00:42:43 does mclide only run on mac? or should it handle linux/windows too? 00:43:06 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-9-12.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:43:10 only on mac 00:43:36 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-9-12.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:43:48 in that case, the first line on their site is misleading :) thanks stassats 00:44:04 it is indeed 00:44:38 it uses (used?) swank, so your implementation itself can run whenever you want 00:46:52 stassats: I was hoping to find a user-friendly ide for new lispers 00:47:05 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:47:32 madnificient: I was on the same directory with sbcl and emacs 00:47:33 i guess telling them to buy Mac is like telling them to use Emacs 00:48:21 Now I get: failed to find the TRUENAME of /private/var/folders/k1/k1fczn9nGQ4CUVBb0l+ui++++TM/-Tmp-/package.lisp 00:48:32 When I do (require 'twist) 00:51:23 What is swank? 00:51:28 udzinari: http://xach.com/tmp/l.png 00:51:51 that's quite old 00:51:52 you can tell that is pretty damn old 00:52:33 rahul beat all box offices 00:52:35 ah http://xach.com/tmp/l.html has the details 00:52:43 Xach: looks awsome although 00:55:09 The graph does look good. Is that chart plotter available somewhere? 00:55:49 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 01:02:27 starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 01:02:28 brainhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:04:53 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 01:06:17 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-167.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:53 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-42-211.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:57 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:35 github guys have quite similar looking graphs on Impact page :) 01:18:45 for example: http://github.com/fosslc/freeseer/graphs/impact 01:24:45 here is js implementation (usnig jquery/raphael) http://dmitry.baranovskiy.com/work/github/. it actually looks much nicer than github variant 01:27:02 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090520, built on: 2010/07/07 00:46:30 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:27:41 Now I got everything compiled on SBCL! :-) The problem was that I didn't understand what #:symbol does... 01:28:03 clhs #: 01:28:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhe.htm 01:30:06 I only need to do splitting of files to words and make an arithmetic coder to get testing how well my compression idea works in practise. 01:30:26 coyO [~unf@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:40 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as C-store 01:35:52 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.18.4] has joined #lisp 01:41:25 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:34 -!- spaceface [~spaceface@c-76-105-169-123.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:13 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:42:20 -!- coyO is now known as coyo 01:46:00 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:46:14 udzinari: I thought it looked like it used raphaël 01:46:27 -!- Dodek [~xyzzyz@77-253-122-97.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:09 I've been planning to make a web page using raphaël to show growth of consumption in relation to different nature resources. 01:47:30 There are some free data available from UN 01:47:39 Xach had a png generated by using vecto from cl I believe 01:47:45 Ok 01:47:59 I thought I'll try Parenscript 01:48:07 I never get Javascript syntax right. :-) 01:48:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 01:49:18 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:07 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:50:33 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:51:13 you can try PostScript too 01:52:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:54:08 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.97.171.166] has joined #lisp 01:58:14 I have actually partially read some heavy PostScript book, because I am originally a graphic designer, and I wanted to know how the language works. 01:58:36 But that was long ago. 02:03:03 Using libspiro could be fun though for some project. 02:04:20 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 02:06:28 -!- C-store is now known as PuffTheMagic 02:07:26 fe[nl]ix, im having a problem with iolib on lispworks6 02:07:53 #(123 34 109 101 116 104 111 100 34 58 34 105 112 99 46 99 111 110 110 101 99 116 34 44 34 112 97 114 97 109 115 34 58 91 123 34 104 111 115 116 ...) cannot be converted to foreign type "Statically 02:07:53 allocated (LISP-ARRAY NIL)". 02:09:11 serichse` [~user@f054213007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:12:01 -!- serichsen [~user@f048041147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:09 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.97.171.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:25 naiv [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-62-123.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:21:22 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 02:21:41 i'd need to test if a flat list is circular, anyone know how to do this ? 02:21:54 clhs list-length 02:21:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_list_l.htm 02:24:04 thanks 02:24:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:09 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 Hi, has anyone called git commands from CL on Windows? 02:32:11 i'm trying to drive some simple git commands from an Allegro CL app on windows... 02:32:33 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 02:32:39 not sure the best way to install msysgit or how to call it... 02:34:46 does anyone know how to force the cflags for stuff that asdf builds 02:34:57 im using 32bit lispworks on macos 64bit 02:35:03 and im getting a type error 02:35:20 i think because asdf is building 64bit versions of some libs for iolib 02:35:29 but i need 32bit versions for my lispworks 02:35:35 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.18.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:23 just set CFLAGS environment variable 02:39:11 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:52:03 -!- serichsen [~user@f054213007.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 02:54:18 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:11 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:01:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mcoynvjojcbndtti] has joined #lisp 03:02:44 i'm sorry about this stupid question but i wrote a .lisp a few years ago and i can't remember how to load it in clisp (open ? (exec ? 03:02:59 load 03:03:07 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:08 nice thx 03:03:11 or better (load (compile-file "file")) 03:03:22 or even better: C-c C-k in Slime 03:06:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:06:59 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:09:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:17:57 ok i'm doing this in allegro: 03:18:30 (excl.osi:command-output "c:/program files (x86)/git/bin/git.exe") 03:18:43 and that seems to return just fine (it returns the Usage stuff). 03:19:25 But if I try (excl.osi:command-output "\"c:/program files (x86)/git/bin/git.exe\" pull" :directory "~/genworks") 03:19:34 I get a hang... 03:19:55 it doesn't seem to like arguments given to the command in command-output 03:22:57 -!- udzinari is now known as udzinari_afk 03:24:10 isn't Windows git some sort of cygwin port that needs special environment around it? 03:24:43 well they have an install option to allow the simple git.exe to be called from a normal Windows cmd shell 03:24:55 so if i open normal Windows cmd, I can just type: 03:24:55 git 03:25:00 and it works like that 03:25:31 so i'm thinking it should be possible to call it from Allegro or other CL with something like run-shell-command 03:26:08 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:29:56 Good morning everyone! 03:30:33 leftylink [~lefty@c-24-16-114-188.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:56 -!- leftylink [~lefty@c-24-16-114-188.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:33:56 dcooper8: I think you're more likely to get support for allegre by contacting them. 03:34:11 allegro* 03:35:07 i just sent them a support question on it 03:35:37 but really I am interested in the preferred way to call an external command from any CL, 03:36:03 for example using the excl:run-shell-command from the acl-compat package of portableaserve 03:36:15 dcooper8: well, it's implementation-dependent. 03:37:05 so is this chat room only for discussing things which are part of ANSI standard? 03:37:40 or can we talk about typical ways to do something like run-shell-command across a few different CL implementations? 03:37:52 dcooper8: No, but this channel is on freenode, so there is a tendency to discuss open source implementations and operating systems more. 03:38:27 ok so how would we do it in clisp? 03:38:36 I think my main problem is the space in the pathname to the executable 03:38:53 dcooper8: The other thing is that most people here probably use SBCL rather than CLISP. 03:39:11 ok then how would we do it in sbcl? :D 03:39:20 Of course not, but it sounded like you were expecting there to be some form of semi-standard RUN-PROGRAM function. Implementations I know of all have some way to do it, but the features vary. On Clozure CL, there's a function called ccl:run-program. 03:39:23 dcooper8: And I am guessing that few people use Windows, but I'm just guessing here. 03:39:49 i don't use much windows either, but almost all of my customers do... 03:40:28 i might be crazy to do this, but i'm trying to set up a simple front-end to git from inside my (CL-based) product, 03:40:41 for use by customers to keep the system up to a certain patch level 03:43:02 i just installed SBCL here, going to try with it, to get a frame of reference 03:43:02 If you have ccl running somewhere, you can see how we call subversion by looking at the source for ccl:update-ccl. 03:43:46 sudo apt-get install ccl 03:43:46 Reading package lists... Done 03:43:46 Building dependency tree 03:43:46 Reading state information... Done 03:43:46 E: Couldn't find package ccl 03:45:31 downloading from trac.clozure.com/ccl now... 03:45:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:48:38 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:54:42 (run-program *svn-program* `("update" ,p) 03:55:28 the documentation for it is at http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#Running-Other-Programs-as-Subprocesses 03:55:43 dcooper8: this is in clozure cl :) 03:57:38 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:39 yep i see, i'm playing with it now -- it takes the command as first argument then actual arguments to the command as a list 03:57:50 -!- peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:55 that's a nice way to do it, no worries about spaces in the executable pathname that way... 03:59:54 peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:01:35 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:55 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:37 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:07:05 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:17:30 Got git working in Allegro with this: 04:17:33 (excl.osi:command-output "\"c:\\program files (x86)\\git\\bin\\git.exe\" pull") 04:18:10 the previous hang was due to git prompting for an ssh password 04:18:56 so I set up an id_dsa in ~/.ssh to avoid the prompting, and it's good. 04:19:43 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:20:14 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:22 but this might be too much for customers to have to set up , 04:20:41 dcooper8: make a script to automate it for them 04:22:39 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:59 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has joined #lisp 04:24:38 maybe possible. it's a bit cheeky to start putting id_dsa files in their home directories for them 04:24:40 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:51 psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-160-116.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:02 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:02 but i'll do more research on git and see the different ways to set it up... 04:30:45 I'm trying to decode a stream of bytes (ideally) in utf-8. Are there any portable libs for decoding UTF8? 04:31:55 babel 04:32:22 awesome. Thanks :) 04:32:27 sykopomp: What do you mean by "decoding"? 04:32:40 also, flexi-streams 04:32:44 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:59 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 sykopomp: If you mean "turn them into characters", what's wrong with read-char? 04:33:54 beach: I'm getting '(unsigned-byte 8) input. 04:34:25 Oh! Why do yo do that if you know that you have UTF-8? 04:35:04 beach: A. I don't know that I have utf-8 for sure, B. I want to handle certain codes in special ways. 04:35:24 Ah, OK. Then, yes, flexistreams should do it. 04:36:13 oooh. 04:36:45 dcooper8: what about using putty, it has a windows variant of the ssh-agent tool 04:37:23 ah, a question of putting it on server side... 04:39:02 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:25 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:37 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has joined #lisp 04:51:30 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.62.114.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:42 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:38 server side? 04:55:47 dcooper8: well, you mentioned putting ssh keys into users home directories in a way that suggested unix server and windows clients 04:56:21 yes, possibly. 04:56:44 the way we are doing it now is just with unprotected http downloads of the binary files 04:57:07 i use a Common Lisp http client library to do the http GET on the appropriate binaries 04:57:16 and bring them down and store them in a numbered patch directory 04:57:20 then load them into the lisp 04:57:32 so no protection... 04:57:53 if we move to git, then we really don't need password protection either, at least not to start with 04:58:26 git will just be more convenient and efficient for pulling down just the changed files 04:58:28 is the password protection there in order to stop unlicensed users? 04:58:40 no - there is no password protection right now 04:58:59 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:05 the way we stop unlicensed users is an encrypted license key file which they need in order to run our software 04:59:11 ah, right 04:59:11 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:20 that license key file gets sent separately from the main software distro 04:59:35 it gets sent separately to each customer based on email address they enter into our license server 04:59:47 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:59:52 so the short answer is, we don't try to protect access to the physical software files 05:00:12 somebody could hack them to remove the license check, 05:00:31 dcooper8: well, you don't need to put keys for each user (which might be cumbersome if they also have account on the server for whatever other possible reason) 05:00:55 AuthorizedKeysFile directive allows for different placement of keys for ssh server 05:01:26 ok. oops sorry I notice i am still in #lisp - i thought i was in #git ! all this git talk... 05:01:41 well, there's little traffic... 05:02:38 what i'm really hoping for is cl-git interface 05:02:43 direct interface to git API from CL 05:02:49 through CFFI or something 05:03:01 I think someone was doing one 05:03:10 (calling git commands) 05:03:28 well, i want to help, with time or maybe money 05:03:38 if someone already has a credible start on such a project 05:05:06 can't recall what it was called right now, though 05:05:34 should be cl-git 05:06:09 but google comes up pretty dry on that 05:06:38 if there is one, it should be listed here: 05:06:43 https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/InterfacesFrontendsAndTools 05:07:08 maybe i need to start one (with all my free time) 05:07:26 well if anyone reading this knows of any work done on cl-git please let me know! 05:07:33 and i'll ask my lisp vendor 05:13:30 ldunn [~user@d110-32-138-133.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:13:39 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:15 maybe i should use cl-python then use python to interface to git! 05:15:28 dcooper8: only if it uses CLI and doesn't link to any library 05:15:31 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.193.142] has joined #lisp 05:15:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-167.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 05:16:21 cl-python can't link to other python libraries? 05:17:18 dcooper8: no, because afaik it compiles to Lisp code, so it doesn't use CPython runtime 05:17:37 (I mean it can't link to native-code libs - pure Python packages are ok.) 05:18:20 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-167.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:26 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.254.233] has joined #lisp 05:20:15 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.193.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:09 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.254.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:10 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:29 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:55 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@dsl081-171-192.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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09:07:50 xan_ [~xan@125.128.45.184] has joined #lisp 09:07:55 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 09:09:18 -!- hyena [~hyena@unaffiliated/culprit] has left #lisp 09:09:44 hyena [~hyena@unaffiliated/culprit] has joined #lisp 09:11:22 daniel [~daniel@p5B326703.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:00 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:12:45 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:15:05 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082AD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:24:36 Bronsa [~bronsa@host46-181-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:25:26 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.19.94.58.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 09:27:39 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 -!- brainhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:03 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:55 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:34:11 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:36:42 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-144-21.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:30 -!- udzinari_afk [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:02 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:39:26 minion: memo for stassats: (with-output-to-string ( |(foo results in an arglist error 09:39:48 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:25 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:49 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:43:51 AndroUser2 [~androirc@77.17.192.244.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 09:43:52 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-78.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:44:56 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:18 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.19.94.58.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:43 -!- AndroUser2 is now known as lnostdal-android 09:46:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:45 I need some advice. I need to transform a tree in the following way: if the tree is an atom A, replace it with the result of applying a function to it, say (F A). If instead the tree is a list, I want to recursively transform each element the same way, and then apply F to the resulting list. But if the list is not a proper list, I want to also apply F to the last cdr of the list. 09:49:00 I can see how to do this recursively, but I thought there might be a better way. 09:50:45 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-243.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:40 ZabaQ [~john.conn@183.106-84-212.ippool.ndo.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:35 liuchong [liuchong@124.132.54.176] has joined #lisp 10:03:11 -!- liuchong [liuchong@124.132.54.176] has left #lisp 10:03:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host46-181-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:01 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:17:30 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.105.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:18:40 beach: I think that any non-recursive way would end up in maintaining the stack by hand, so the literal translation of your description to a recursive function seems best to me. 10:20:39 stolenapples [~stolenapp@176-96-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:53 beach: You just have to look out for circular lists. :) 10:30:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 10:41:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:16 md1 [~user@85-135-146-205.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 10:43:48 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:24 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:48:16 -!- hyena [~hyena@unaffiliated/culprit] has quit [Quit: jmp] 10:48:28 serichsen: OK, thanks! 10:50:06 hyena [~hyena@unaffiliated/culprit] has joined #lisp 10:50:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-7-108.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:50:25 Dodek [~xyzzyz@77-255-41-107.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 10:51:11 -!- stolenapples [~stolenapp@176-96-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 10:51:49 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:51:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@125.128.45.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:52:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-7-108.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:52:08 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-100.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:52:11 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:52:24 Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:53:32 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-6-30.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:53:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-1-100.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:53:34 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:54:12 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-52-238.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-2-111.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-6-30.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:57:21 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:58:18 the thing I miss from C++ (the *only* thing) is the ability to single step through just-written code, to check that it does what I think it does. 10:58:31 peterhil [peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:58:42 Right now, I just stick (breaks) all over my new function.. 10:58:56 ..which does the job, but is less than elegant. 10:59:00 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:56 Good afternoon! 11:00:11 Good afternoon. 11:04:25 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:00 ZabaQ: How about splitting the function into smaller and thus more manageable pieces? 11:06:23 (I'm not sure what you were talking about) 11:09:21 I was moaning about my lack of understanding of the methods of debugging Common Lisp. 11:09:46 ZabaQ: is SBCL's single-stepping support not sufficient for you? 11:10:04 Well, if I was using SBCL it might be sufficent, yes :-) 11:10:45 Reav_ [~Sarge@41.210.191.7] has joined #lisp 11:11:30 googling it now 11:13:08 In slime, C-u C-c C-c on the function compiles it with high enough debug for stepping. Then (step (foo)) or one initial (break) somewhere will give you restarts in slime, so that typing 3 or 2 will step into or over, respectively. 11:14:04 timor [~timor@port-92-195-7-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:14:45 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:59 It's still no Turbo Pascal, but it actually highlights the current form in source code rather nicely, so it's pretty close. 11:18:38 licthblau: thanks - that's sure to be handy 11:18:39 hello. what are the keywords to search for, if i would like to generate a dynamic(ajax-like) web-page? is there a toolbox which can be used like tcl/tk for guis (minimal, simple, but very few lines of code for simple tasks)? 11:19:52 (i googled for: lisp ajax) 11:21:08 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.161.159] has joined #lisp 11:22:33 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-52-238.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 11:25:00 prima_lux [~yaaic@95.158.0.250] has joined #lisp 11:25:14 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:25:24 md1` [~user@85-135-146-205.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 11:27:05 -!- md1 [~user@85-135-146-205.adsl.slovanet.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:54 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.161.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:29:33 It's not until recently I twigged how important restarts are in making your app debuggable...it really helps to have some strategically placed restarts that mean you don't need to stop running your app in order to tweak it. 11:29:52 Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious. It's just the C++ culture shock. 11:32:43 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008244.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:43 -!- prima_lux [~yaaic@95.158.0.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:31 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 11:34:37 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 11:38:44 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:41:48 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:44:18 trebor_home: I guess that you are looking for a web framework. Weblocks does such things, including ajax; see http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-weblocks/wiki/UserManual#BreakingtheIce 11:46:26 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:47:37 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 11:47:50 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:34 urandom__ [~user@p548A40DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:52 xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 hyena: I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 12:05:09 beach: Yes I am. 12:05:45 New to Lisp as well? 12:06:09 beach: Correct. 12:06:43 Actually, I am not yet "new to Lisp". I will most likely start studying "Practical Common Lisp" this Monday. 12:07:03 Oh, good choice! What other languages have you programmed in? 12:07:37 -!- Reav_ [~Sarge@41.210.191.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08:37 -!- samo [~samo@88.200.108.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:09:52 I am most familiar with C, C++ and Assembly language for x86 (mostly under Linux). I have also written various programs in languages such as Pascal, Python, Java, C# but claim no intermediate (or above) mastery of them. 12:10:13 hyena: You could be in for an interesting ride then. 12:10:59 One can only hope. 12:11:20 And PCL is a good choice for people with your experience. 12:11:41 I like that book 12:12:59 -!- md1` [~user@85-135-146-205.adsl.slovanet.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:13 samo_ [~samo@88.200.108.138] has joined #lisp 12:18:20 schmrkc: Perhaps you will be so kind as to provide more information on what you meant, though? 12:19:06 hyena: I meant that coming from that background then CL has some nice features that might change the way you think about things. 12:19:22 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:45 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:20:01 schmrkc: Good, that is precisely why I desire to study common lisp. 12:22:25 Well, -that- and the prospect that such an experience will prove to be challenging/fun and, why not, practical in a more direct manner. 12:23:02 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:11 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.167.6] has joined #lisp 12:24:49 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:25:52 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.35.111] has joined #lisp 12:31:42 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-15501.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 12:32:07 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 12:32:34 -!- jdz [~jdz@host94-105-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:18 Such an experience might have the interesting side effect that you no longer particularly want to program in those other languages again. 12:34:35 -!- samo_ [~samo@88.200.108.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:35 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 12:34:50 xyxxyyy1 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seconds] 13:44:30 -!- malfeas [malfeas@devio.us] has quit [Quit: down time] 13:46:28 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mcoynvjojcbndtti] has left #lisp 13:47:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:47:26 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.156.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:36 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.7.196] has joined #lisp 13:48:00 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:19 xan__ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has joined #lisp 13:51:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:10 serichsen: I ended up writing a map-maybe-dotted-list which maps an arbitrary function over the elements of a possibly-dotted list. 13:53:29 serichsen: And map-maybe-dotted-list is recursive. 13:55:28 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 13:55:58 delta [delta@devio.us] has joined #lisp 13:56:46 -!- xan__ [~xan@59.5.2.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:46 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:19 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:18 Zetetic [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:02:28 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:33 -!- Zetetic is now known as Elench 14:03:49 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:00 rlb3 [~rlb@70-140-33-120.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:54 Zetetic [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:09:10 -!- Zetetic is now known as Elench 14:10:51 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:12:09 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:12:51 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has quit [Client Quit] 14:29:14 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:29:26 'morning 14:29:36 Hello Fade. 14:29:49 heya beach. how are you today? 14:29:57 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 14:30:12 Fade: Fine, thank you. What about yourself? 14:31:56 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:14 not too bad. 14:33:21 I have a whole day to work on toys. ;) 14:33:34 Great! 14:33:40 yeah :D 14:35:02 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35:10 Zetetic [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:35:24 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:45 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.35.111] has joined #lisp 14:37:13 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:37:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:39:39 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:07 hi, somebody using gbb-open, im trying it and seems interesting but looking at the forums seems little use of this project, some comments about it? thanks 14:48:21 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:49:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:51:18 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:37 -!- abhinav is now known as abhinavm 15:02:00 beach: processing of dotted list as forms is implementation dependant. 15:02:35 s/dotted list/non-proper list/ 15:03:00 beach: there's indeed no place where the standard specifies a non-proper list as a form. 15:03:26 pjb: Do you have a CLHS reference for that? I have been searching, but it seems that properness is always implicitly assumed. 15:03:29 -!- abhinavm is now known as abhinav 15:03:45 pjb: Thanks! 15:03:50 I don't think it's explicitely stated. 15:04:42 It's stated somewhere that cyclic input results in undefined consequences 15:05:09 #1=(progn (print 'foo) . #1#) 15:05:38 beach: but some implementations (notably interpreters) won't break on (progn . #1=((print 'hi) . #1#)) 15:05:50 tcr: yours works only if progn is defined as a variable. 15:06:21 fair enough 15:06:22 pjb: Sure. 15:07:36 There's one place you may have dotted-lists in code: in macro arguments. 15:08:13 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.192.244.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 15:08:22 I guess that's why clhs doesn't say anything about it in general. 15:08:51 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-140-173.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:04 lpolzer [~sky@p57A57D93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.35.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:10 minion: memo for stassats: See http://paste.lisp.org/+2FQ0/5 for a possible fix for slime-recompute-modelines. This works quite nicely, based on my one test case. 15:10:18 minion: hello? 15:10:26 Bummer. 15:13:41 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:19:52 gaogzio [~user@p57A7F924.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 level300 [~some@purpletree.org] has joined #lisp 15:19:57 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-25-89.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:07 -!- level300 [~some@purpletree.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:02 By the way do people still use comp.lang.lisp ? 15:25:17 i was a heavy reader and occasional poster 1995-2000 or so 15:25:25 but after Erik Naggum left i lost a bit of intereste 15:25:36 now i forget how to get in there even (i used to get in through Emacs somehow...) 15:26:07 if i look at it in www.deja.com it looks like a lot of spam :( 15:26:37 news is kind of a mess, but I understand people still post some on-topic stuff in comp.lang.lisp 15:26:56 you can get to it through google groups 15:28:29 it looks like the etiquette here is more like one-liners or two-liners 15:28:36 and no more than that, if nobody responds... 15:28:56 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-121-193.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:44 -!- rme [rme@clozure-677ACAE0.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:29:45 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 15:29:47 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-244-205.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:04 so I guess comp.lang.lisp would still be the forum for longer Naggum-style rants... 15:30:19 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.35.111] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 pjb: I think you are right. The CLHS does not need to state it more explicitly, because the restriction is imposed by the definition of lambda lists. Of the four possible compound forms, only macro forms can be "based on" a dotted lambda list. 15:31:14 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-140-173.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:14 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 15:31:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:38 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:06 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-123-137.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:42:26 pjb: Yes, I know about the macro arguments. But that's not really a "form" in that it is never in a position to be evaluated. 15:42:32 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-15501.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:46:16 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 15:46:17 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 15:46:59 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:03 bhyde [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:17 Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 -!- gaogzio [~user@p57A7F924.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:06 CFFI question fo the day: clisp seems to allow nil to translate to a null pointer, but sbcl does not. Is there a way to do defctype so that it will, or should I just make the call explicit in usage (or var (null-pointer))? 15:49:07 beach: That a macro's lambda list can be dotted means that a corresponding macro form can/must also be dotted. A macro form is a compound form. 15:50:30 serichsen: I don't see how that follows. 15:51:33 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:55 beach: (defmacro foo (bar . baz)) defines a macro that would be "called" like (foo a . b), no? 15:52:37 I don't think so. baz just becomes a kind of &rest parameter if I understand things right. 15:53:55 beach: It would be a kind of rest parameter if the value passed were a list. It may also be an atom, however. 15:54:01 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 clhs 3.4.4 15:54:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dd.htm 15:54:35 nus [~nus@81.24.80.50] has joined #lisp 15:54:35 -!- nus [~nus@81.24.80.50] has quit [Changing host] 15:54:35 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 15:54:43 seems pretty clear to me: "It is permissible for a macro form (or a subexpression of a macro form) to be a dotted list only when (... &rest var) or (... . var) is used to match it. It is the responsibility of the macro to recognize and deal with such situations." 15:55:36 jsnell: Indeed it is very clear. Thanks! 15:55:57 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 serichsen: It seems you were right. 15:56:16 oh, I read that as clearly you being right :-) 15:56:18 beach: Wow. :) 15:56:47 jsnell: er, who? 15:56:53 beach, you 15:57:05 a lambda-list with . foo is equal to a lambda list with &rest foo. both can be used with a dotted macro form 15:57:41 jsnell: Sure, but that was not the main question. The question was whether the invoking form could be a dotted list, and it can, and I didn't realize that, and neither did pjb. 15:58:09 ah, fair enough. didn't look far enough in the scrollback :-) 15:58:34 Ah ha, question answered, yay. You can't define foreign translators with defctype anymore. 15:58:42 jsnell: But you still managed to find the relevant paragraph! Thanks! 16:03:31 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:14 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.116.187] has joined #lisp 16:05:32 *beach* goes to spend some time with his (admittedly small) family. 16:06:11 bhyde1 [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:56 -!- bhyde [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:07:01 beach: Have fun! :) 16:07:26 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:26 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:09 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-99.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:16:57 lastk [~fr3kazoid@189.105.78.56] has joined #lisp 16:17:00 -!- lastk [~fr3kazoid@189.105.78.56] has left #lisp 16:19:49 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 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[~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:00 This might sound like a weird question, but I was reminded of "Synthesis: An Efficient Implementation of Fundamental Operating System Services", which I read before I knew lisp. Aren't executible structures just closures? 17:46:38 aren't instances of classes just closures? 17:47:16 aren't X just lambda functions? 17:47:40 indeed 17:48:11 You lost me on the classes part. I thought they were simply data with a type added on. 17:50:53 WarWeasle: depends on how you look at it, I guess. 17:51:18 well if they were, they could be implemented as closures too 17:51:27 in some incredibly contrived manner 17:51:40 gonna meditate and sleep now 17:51:41 peace 17:51:44 doesn't have to be that contrived. It's actually a pretty simple implementation. 17:51:48 see ya. 17:52:59 sykopomp: I think I just figured out how to do that. You have a list of defmethods for the accessor functions. 17:53:21 with the "class" being the instance of the object. 17:53:44 elegant, actually. 17:54:12 it's easier if you think of it in terms of smalltalk-style message-passing OOP. 17:54:24 as opposed to CLOS' method-'out'-of-class thing. 17:54:26 the lambda calculus is basically a way of describing all computation using functions 17:54:46 you can implement math using just functions 17:54:49 rahul: sure. This is a particularly close mapping, is all. 17:55:30 sykopomp: no closer than any others, really 17:55:38 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:39 rahul: closer than church numerals, imo. 17:55:41 although to get proper OOP, you need side-effects 17:56:13 An os with self modifying code suddenly becomes life-as-usual in lisp. I'm pretty sure Lisp IS the Tao. 17:56:14 sykopomp: I don't know smalltalk. :( 17:56:14 But I never talk small so... 17:56:14 :) 17:56:14 Also, I haven't been trying to stay away from lispgames and qix. I'm just busy with work and life. 17:56:27 sykopomp: I don't see an implementation of a multi-method using pure lambda calc as being simpler than church numerals 17:56:55 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 17:57:11 of course, given the correct macros, such an implementation would be identical to the traditional lisp implementation of it ;)\ 17:57:28 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 (defmacro make-me-coffee () ... 17:57:44 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:48 bhyde [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:51 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-31-47.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 (loop for i in (get-instance-values 2) 17:58:09 whoops, sorry. :( 17:59:20 Gotta go anyway... (error "Coffee object not instanced") 17:59:32 -!- bhyde [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:33 -!- bhyde1 [~Adium@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:59:52 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:13 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 18:01:02 LiamH: Hi, I was just looking a bit at fft tests, but (aside from some missing tests) don't see anything wrong. What's the "proper" way to run all defined tests? 18:01:40 (run-tests) or so 18:01:58 or make in ansi-tests 18:02:00 folder 18:03:51 (run-tests) doesn't really do anything 18:04:18 homie: unless you weren't speaking to me.... 18:04:20 HG` [~HG@xdslfd190.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:22 homie: you're not helping with your random advices 18:04:33 ah 18:06:47 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.35.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:06:52 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:20 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:13:06 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:10 -!- super__ is now known as lolsuper_ 18:13:11 stassats: Take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/+2FQ0/5. This is a version that should work better for slime. It certainly seems to work for me. 18:13:21 brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:13:32 Er, slime and xemacs. 18:14:56 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:15:00 and a question for me: how do i get slime running on xemacs? 18:15:27 it requires some absent packages and copying them from emacs doesn't seem to work 18:18:33 rahul: I was thinking more smalltalk-style OOP with messages being passed to objects. 18:18:34 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-243.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:18:37 -!- brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Riece/6.1.0 Emacs/23.1.50 (darwin)] 18:18:42 brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:19:35 Likewise, I imagine the implementation of a full, CL-like math library -- all those different number types included, _would_ be harder to implement using simply church numerals than even a CLOS built entirely on LAMBDA. 18:20:11 it's called "numeric tower" 18:20:47 ...okay? 18:21:37 stassats: I don't think I had to do anything. What packages are you missing? 18:21:37 now you can save several words when describing it, isn't abstraction great? 18:22:16 rtoym: thingatpt, comint 18:22:17 Sikander: (lisp-unit:run-tests) when you're in package GSLL 18:22:17 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:27 *rtoym* is still running 2010-04-17 slime, so maybe the newest version is different. 18:22:58 shouldn't be, i had this problem at that time too 18:23:08 Sikander: The tests all pass when I try them, the problem is that if I try them all from size 1 to 99 (as GSL does), it takes 17 minutes to complete. 18:23:38 my xemacs is build in April, and i remember not being able to start slime 18:23:42 stassats: Oh. I normally grab the xemacs sumo tarball to get all packages. comint is in there. 18:24:19 stassats: You can also install packages from the menu bar Tools->Packages.... But that never really works very well for me. 18:24:58 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:25:38 thing-at-point is in the fsf-compat package. comint is in the xemacs-base package. 18:26:11 okay, thanks 18:27:20 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:28:55 oops, the sumo tarball eat all my remaining disk space 18:29:07 s/eat/ate/ 18:29:16 someone ate my language skills too 18:29:56 Regarding my hanging SBCL when starting hunchentoot via a compiled file: I believe Krystof is right - there's a thread/locking problem 18:29:57 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:30:14 I now tried strace on the script, just before the (start-server ...) is called ... 18:30:43 and the newly spawned thread just hangs in "futex(0x1000396430, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 16, NULL " 18:30:54 Don't know what I should do about that 18:31:19 Interactively, starting (start-server) after everything else, works 18:32:54 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:33:14 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:59 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:20 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:36:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:02 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:45:17 Hmmm, it seems I get it working ... 18:46:14 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:01 Good evening everyone! 18:48:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:50:26 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:12 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:13 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 18:59:42 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:22 beach: 'mor... 'evening 19:05:36 In the makefile I have now "sbcl --eval '(asdf:...)' --eval '(run)'", so hunchentoot gets started from another --eval instead from the toplevel 19:05:41 and that seems to work fine 19:05:55 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 so I'll put that into a screen (for later debugging), and it's done 19:06:02 Goiod evening beach 19:06:10 Good, even... 19:06:27 -!- brnhack [~hrk@ntsitm087073.sitm.nt.ngn4.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Riece/6.1.0 Emacs/23.1.50 (darwin)] 19:06:30 Hello Krystof! I just told that I solved the threading/locking problem of hunchentoot from yesterday 19:06:40 In case you're interested: 19:06:46 In the makefile I have now "sbcl --eval '(asdf:...)' --eval '(run)'", so hunchentoot gets started from another --eval instead from the toplevel 19:06:49 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-207-231.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:08:30 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:09:30 that sound more like "workaround", not "solution" 19:10:45 sounds, sigh 19:12:33 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-103-86.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:55 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-123-137.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:12:59 -!- beach` is now known as beach 19:14:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: "thanks, bye"] 19:14:17 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:21 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 19:15:51 -!- benny [~user@i577A10EA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:16:01 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:20 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 19:17:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:20:21 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-41-218.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 -!- varjag [~eugene@35.187.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:01 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0BA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:27:36 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:27:54 Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 varjag [~eugene@35.187.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:38:10 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:07 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 19:41:47 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:44:46 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:44 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:05 gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 udzinari [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 jmbr [~jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 udzinari` [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:56:34 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0BA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:32 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727202.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:58:01 -!- udzinari [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:54 rtoym: i finally defeated XEmacs, and your patch makes things much better with many open files 20:00:03 stassats: That's great! It works quite well for me too, for the few tests I've done. 20:00:22 stassats: BTW, did you see my note about filename completion? 20:00:32 -!- udzinari` [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:00:44 hi all. I have a CLOS question... 20:00:52 I'm running hunchentoot and I'd like to override the default session behaviour but only for one of several webservers active in the current lisp image. 20:00:53 I can achieve this by declaring a (defmethod session-db (acceptor (eql *foo*)).. ) with *foo* being the particular server I want to override. 20:01:00 This works fine so far. 20:01:21 but the thing is, I sometimes will want to stop and start a server, meaning that *foo*'s value might change at run-time. 20:01:31 does this mean I have to recompile that defmethod every time? 20:01:41 rtoym: maybe, let me look in the logs 20:02:16 udzinari [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 (especially becomes tricky if I wrap the stop and start routines into a defun. Can I make a defmethod inside a call to a function?) 20:02:58 and by "can", I mean is this kosher? 20:03:08 The Lisp Way (tm), etc? 20:03:36 Shaftoe: you can always make the class of the server object with different desired behavior different from the standard server class. 20:03:51 Ah. I see 20:04:01 e.g. (defclass my-fancy-server (hunchentoot:standard-server) ()) and change-class. that's one possibility. 20:04:02 so then instead of using an eql specializer I'd use a class specializer 20:04:21 *Xach* doesn't know the actual class name involved 20:04:30 ok. that's a great. I hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks! 20:07:36 actually, i don't think you'd need change-class at all. 20:07:52 you'd just make an instance of your own class. 20:09:39 yeah, that's what I've done. 20:09:39 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-17-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:42 entirely empty wrapper 20:09:49 or rather, sub class 20:10:32 (instantiated when launching the server) 20:11:31 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-79-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:16:51 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:22 -!- udzinari [~user@65.25.broadband12.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:44 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:47 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 20:21:41 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfd190.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:43 rtoym: though modelines of previously invisible windows are only updated after some slime/lisp interaction 20:22:25 which may be not too soon if one doesn't use autodoc 20:23:39 perhaps there is some hook on window becoming visible 20:25:18 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:26 gonzojive1 [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:25:41 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:26:53 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-7-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:29 does any SBCL engineer recall why only structure!objects can be dumped when cross-compiling? According to a comment, %INSTANCE-FOO functions don't work on general instances, but why is that? 20:29:55 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:32:51 jasonx_ [jasonx@93-138-62-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:36:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:32 LiamH: When I run (lisp-unit:run-tests), it does take a long time, but I don't see the FFT tests in the tests that are run 20:42:53 lispm [~lispm@f054052155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 -!- lispm [~lispm@f054052155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:00 Sikander: It shouldn't take a long time now, because I severely cut back the number of FFT tests. Look in the file tests/fast-fourier-transform.lisp. 20:46:36 LiamH: When I run (lisp-unit:run-tests fast-fourier-transform), it fails due to a method not being defined. 20:46:50 At the very end it says (all-fft-test-forms 9 3 (64 99)), which means do n=1...9 for strides 1,2,3, then n=64 and n=99, but for stride=1. 20:46:53 LiamH: I.e. I get an error 20:47:01 LiamH: Yes, I understood that 20:47:19 LiamH: When I run that by hand, it immediately returns the symbol FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM 20:47:28 what method is not defined? 20:47:47 elt* 20:48:07 when called with, I believe, an array of complex numbers 20:48:35 "when called with arguments (#2m(#C(0.5138700781390071d0 0.1757413032464683d0)) 1.0d0) 20:48:38 " 20:48:50 (lisp-unit:use-debugger), then run the FFT test, then backtrace, then paste the whole output, please 20:49:05 one sec 20:49:11 Sikander: Oh, I think I know your problem. 20:49:18 What version of GSL are you running? 20:50:01 *gsl-version*->? 20:50:22 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:20 tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:28 1.13 20:52:49 Oh. Hmmm. My guess is wrong. 20:53:29 (versions <1.12 did not have the ability to do some math ops on complex numbers) 20:53:37 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:09 stassats: That's kind of a bummer. Would changing 'visible to T be better? Seems to work fast still. 20:54:41 -!- Elench is now known as Minionee 20:54:50 T means all visible frames 20:55:40 in reality what may be out of sync: when your file has no in-package and you change package in the REPL 20:55:41 amazing, wgetpaste doesn't have lisp as known language? 20:56:01 minion: paste 20:56:18 hmmm 20:56:18 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:35 http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 20:56:51 rtoym: well, some other info may be out of sync to, but you said you don't see it and i guess you're the only one using Slime with Xemacs 20:56:52 Hmm. The docstring for walk-windows says if WHICH-FRAMES is T then all windows on all frames. Oh. But it also says visible windows. Not sure how that all works. 20:57:11 s/to,/too/ 20:57:34 oh, and it doesn't announce it either, any more... 20:57:46 LiamH: http://paste.lisp.org/+2FRB 20:57:53 stassats: To be honest, I haven't noticed what's in sync or not. Let me try your example of no in-package and I change package in the repl. 20:57:54 Sikander: yes, I learned the other day that was shut off deliberately because of spamming. 20:58:08 LiamH: It's a sad, sad world out there... 20:58:35 rtoym: it has to be invisible when you're changing packages 20:59:14 stassats: If I have a file with no in-package and I change the package in the repl, what should the modeline do? Right now, nothing. 20:59:29 Sikander: what it's saying is that it can't multiply a complex array of one element by 1. _That's_ a sad world! 20:59:57 rtoym: modeline should display the package currently in the REPL 21:00:59 LiamH: Oh, wait, you're right! I'm sorry, I'm still bad at understanding SBCL backtraces; for some reason, I get an information overload and my brain shuts down. 21:01:15 LiamH: So... Why does this work for you but not for me? 21:01:25 stassats: Really? Then I was confused. I thought it was the package of the file. 21:01:25 Sikaner: hold on, I'm working on it 21:01:56 LiamH: Btw, when I run (lisp-unit:run-tests) it takes about 17 minutes, but I don't see any mention of FAST-FOURIER-TRANSFORM once all tests are run. 21:02:20 rtoym: well, no, it's: if there is in-package, then it displays that package, otherwise it will display the one in the REPL 21:02:30 assuming you're using slime-repl 21:02:54 -!- Minionee is now known as CamelNomad 21:03:10 somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.221] has joined #lisp 21:03:38 stassats: Yes, I'm using slime-repl. With that patch, the modeline of a visible file with no-inpackage isn't changing when I change the package using the repl. 21:03:41 and I say hello 21:03:53 (Still says cl-user) 21:04:08 rtoym: it does for me 21:04:30 Then I must have something else wrong, or a too-old version. 21:04:35 oh, i think your slime is too old for that 21:05:05 I'll try an update. But I gotta run now to get a new mirror for my bike. Be back later. Thanks for all of your help! 21:05:29 -!- CamelNomad is now known as MinorityOfOne 21:05:51 *stassats* could use a mirror today, got hit by a reckless motorcyclists 21:05:59 eh, singular 21:08:13 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:48 -!- MinorityOfOne is now known as larihc 21:09:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.133.64] has joined #lisp 21:10:17 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A40DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:39 Sikander: http://paste.lisp.org/+2FRB/1 21:16:20 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:17:38 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:24 LiamH: Ok, it works. Weird 21:20:13 LiamH: Nevertheless, (lisp-unit:run-tests) still takes over 17 minutes to run 21:20:37 Sikander: well, the weirdness is that GSL's _scale functions, that multiply an array by a scalar, take a double float for the scale factor, regardless of the element type of the array. _Except_ if the array is complex, then it takes a scalar of the element type. 21:20:55 Sikander: it shouldn't take more than a couple minutes. 21:21:17 LiamH: Perhaps I have a slow computer... 21:21:55 Sikander: The 17 min I was noticing was for FFT tests alone when I had (all-fft-test-forms 99 3). 21:22:32 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:46 -!- puddingpimp [~dave@118-92-157-222.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:51 LiamH: (all-fft-test-forms 99 3) doesn't seem to do much; it returns immediately, giving me the symbol fast-fourier-transform 21:24:53 Try (macroexpand ' (all-fft-test-forms 99 3)) 21:25:51 Then put that form at the end of tests/fast-fourier-transform.lisp, replacing (or commenting out) the existing all-fft-test-forms form. 21:26:01 Then recompile that file. 21:27:35 what's the best way to serialize and de-serialize an a-list of CLOS objects to and from a (flat text) file? 21:28:52 that depends 21:29:48 .. on ? 21:30:16 whether you're using allegro or not. 21:30:37 Shaftoe: on what you want 21:31:08 Well, it's a bunch of hunchentoot:session objects. I just want to take the path of least resistance as it is right now 21:31:18 (and make my sessions persist across images) 21:31:35 (successive images in time, not concurrent images) 21:32:46 i've heard good things about rucksack. 21:32:53 although I don't have direct experience with it. 21:33:38 Fade: thanks. I'm reading up on it now. 21:33:48 -!- larihc is now known as JHVH 21:34:23 LiamH: Ok, it's insanely slow, yes. Stand back, I'm going in... 21:34:58 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-244-205.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:25 Sikander: OK, I'm interested in your insight. 21:35:39 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 21:36:50 hmm. cl-store seems to be quite easy to use too 21:37:27 there are quite a lot of persistence packages out there. 21:37:37 rucksack is the only one i've seen consistently praised/mentioned. 21:37:46 well, apart from AllegroCache. 21:37:47 if your objects don't reference other objects, it's trivial to roll your own 21:39:08 clhs make-load-form-saving-slots 21:39:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_l_1.htm 21:39:19 if you can parse hungarian lisp, there's also cl-perec 21:39:26 from dwim.hu 21:40:30 LiamH: I don't get it. (FFT-REAL-RESULT-CHECK (TEST-FFT-NOISE 'DOUBLE-FLOAT 99 :STRIDE 1)) takes about 5 ms. Multiply that by 3 (for the strides) and again times 99 (for the size) and you'd get about 1.5 seconds. 21:42:28 -!- JHVH is now known as Elench 21:42:50 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@pool-72-71-231-158.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:45:45 LiamH: I don't think it's the tests themselves. 21:45:45 -!- Elench is now known as RandomNick4 21:46:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.133.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:38 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:29 -!- varjag [~eugene@35.187.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:51:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:17 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@183.106-84-212.ippool.ndo.com] has left #lisp 21:54:47 -!- RandomNick4 is now known as Elench 21:57:44 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:59 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.192.244.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:58:08 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:59:10 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:01:06 Sikander: Hmmm. 22:01:11 tcr1 [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:57 Sikander: what could it be other than the tests? 22:03:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:53 LiamH: Sorry, got side-tracked on something else. 22:06:08 LiamH: (time (loop for i from 1 below 100 do (dolist (x (fft-test-forms i 3)) (eval x)))) takes 4.1 seconds. 22:06:30 LiamH: Isn't that what the tests (roughly) should do? 22:06:41 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host55-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:06:47 LiamH: and how long it should (roughly) take? 22:07:13 Yes, I agree, and 4 seconds seems way more reasonable than 17 minutes. 22:07:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:07:29 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-52-238.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:08:35 LiamH: So... I don't know much about lisp-unit or how it performs its tests, but I'd say that there's something not right in the way it runs the forms returned by fft-test-forms. 22:10:03 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:26 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:32 benny [~user@i577A1153.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:39 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:06 Sikander: It sounds like it. I'm trying to reproduce your results 22:22:15 while monitoring the grill 22:23:19 Sikander: Ok, I got more like 5 seconds, but anyway that sounds reasonable. 22:23:31 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 22:24:08 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:25:48 LiamH: Is the point to have _all_ gsl tests in gsll (I guess so)? Because I saw you're still missing a few. 22:26:11 Sikander: That's the general idea, but of course I'm not there yet. 22:27:37 LiamH: Ok. I think I can contribute some extra tests. The timing problem is a bit out of my depth, though. As I said, (lisp-unit:run-tests) takes about 17 minutes all by itself. 22:29:13 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:07 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:39:12 LiamH: Should I try to figure out more about the tests? I'd prefer not to dive into lisp-unit too much at the moment. 22:39:49 Sikander: no, I'll try to figure it out; if tmh were around I'd ask him, because he understands lisp-unit better than I do. 22:40:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:40:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 22:41:36 ldunn [~user@d110-32-138-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:42:17 I'm kinda baffled: I've just downloaded and put cl-store into my site path, correctly linked the site-systems asdf. launched sbcl as root and compiled it, launched it as the target user and successfully loaded it. 22:42:22 Sikander: I found a bug in my tests that seems to indicate those tests were doing nothing useful. 22:42:33 but when I try to load it from my production image, it says the package can't be found. 22:42:41 how would I trace this scenario? 22:42:47 LiamH: ? 22:43:10 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has joined #lisp 22:43:18 hmm 22:44:02 -!- qbomb [~quent@12.153.197.33] has left #lisp 22:44:49 Sikander: The FFTs were being calculated, then the results were thrown away, and it was checking that NIL was equal to NIL (four times), so all tests pass! 22:45:31 LiamH: Wait, in the loop I was trying, or in the actual tests? 22:45:58 Sikander: In anything that expanded fft-*-result-check 22:46:37 LiamH: so in both, then 22:46:43 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47:08 Now I have some more significant problems: There is no applicable method for the generic function # when called with arguments 22:47:08 (#2m(#C(0.5138700781390071d0 0.0d0)) 22:47:08 #2m(#C(0.5138700781390071d0 0.0d0))) 22:47:33 So I need to extend some generic functions, I think. 22:47:52 Hum... 22:49:18 Sikander: This will take some work to dig into. How much later are you staying up? 22:50:03 Hum, it's almost 1am now. I was thinking of calling it a night... 22:50:48 Sikander: That's what I thought. I've got to take care of dinner so I'll look at it afterward. If you're around tomorrow about this time I'll let you know what I found. 22:51:00 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:51:24 LiamH: Ok, sounds good. 22:51:28 Goodnight 22:51:34 Goodnight 22:51:36 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep] 22:52:44 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:52 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.27] has joined #lisp 22:55:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:04 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:00:07 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:01:47 -!- hyena [~hyena@unaffiliated/culprit] has quit [Quit: -] 23:05:12 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:17 I have an interesting situation on my hands. I have an a-list which I want to watch for changes. 23:05:34 the consumer of this a-list gets the alist itself via an accessor 23:05:50 and also gets a lock to access the list, which it waits on to write to the list 23:05:56 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-176-224.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:06:10 so as the provider of this service, I can only give out the list and look at my lock for activity 23:06:45 so how would I do that. How would I make a thread that waits for the thread to be acquired, then waits for it to be released and acquires it, and then again starts waiting for the mutex to be acquired? 23:07:06 s/How would I make a thread that waits for the thread to be acquired/How would I make a thread that waits for the mutex to be acquired/ 23:09:08 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:00 It sounds like you want a condition. 23:11:37 yeah, there's plenty of better ways of doing this, but I'm implementing an extension to already existing software, and this is how it is doing it 23:13:32 -!- gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:41 joshe: unless I misunderstood your response. can a condition be signaled when a mutex is acquired? 23:14:10 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:14:25 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 23:14:31 Amyn [~Amyn@bos94-2-87-91-81-80.dsl.club-internet.fr] has joined #lisp 23:16:03 Shaftoe: He's talking of condition-variables I guess 23:16:17 http://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation 23:16:36 Yes, that's what I meant. 23:16:47 condition-variables can be used for subscribe-notify scenarios 23:16:55 ah. thanks. I start readin 23:17:16 Calling them "conditions" in a CL context wasn't exactly clear. 23:18:55 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:19:13 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 23:19:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:41 gonzojive [~red@2002:800c:a95a:4:fa1e:dfff:fee3:34e8] has joined #lisp 23:30:05 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:30 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:43:24 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.50.200.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:11 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:47:29 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 23:53:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:08 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E42F0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp