00:02:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-15-22.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:45 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:11:12 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:20:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:22:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.cdif.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:23:01 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 Well, I tried (read-sequence) without luck. I don't know if it is the /right/ way to do it, but it is now working (http://paste.lisp.org/display/113533#1). 00:32:28 didi: Do you know about with-open-file macro? http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/files-and-file-io.html 00:32:31 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.cdif.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:56 I haven't yet done any file I/O with Lisp, but that seems handy. I'll to try that tomorrow. 00:34:37 peterhil: I came across it during the investigation but my stream is returned from a (drakma:http-request) call, unfortunately. 00:38:28 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:42:11 hypnosis [~hypnosis@unaffiliated/hypnosis] has joined #lisp 00:42:58 -!- hypnosis [~hypnosis@unaffiliated/hypnosis] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:37 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-146-45.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:27 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:52:52 Ok, so that macro may not work. Drakma uses flexi-streams, so have you looked into their documentation? It seems you can reuse a stream for a connection: http://weitz.de/drakma/#want-stream 00:53:03 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 It also says it uses Chungas chunked streams, so maybe there is some function on flexi-streams or in chunga to read the stream? 00:54:37 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:58:52 didi: with-output-to-string is handy also 01:00:20 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-227-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:26 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:06 -!- serichsen [~user@g228200132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 01:03:30 *peterhil* goes to sleep, bye 01:04:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.cdif.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:05:37 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-227-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:07:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:12 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-177-127.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:13:57 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:00 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:18:27 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:24 -!- Intensity [MDTZ6BQKY7@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:20:09 Xach: Indeed. Thank you. 01:20:17 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-97-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:15 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:12 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:28:06 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:32:18 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 01:32:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:58 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@217.168.12.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:39:59 symbole_ [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:49 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:24 -!- ][V][ [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:51:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 01:57:52 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:57:57 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:58:02 -!- symbole_ [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:27 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@89.180.77.215] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 02:03:54 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:10 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 02:13:55 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:13:55 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:13:55 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:16:43 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Quit: 9b] 02:18:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:18:59 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:21:52 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:53 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/2010071400]] 02:25:29 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:12 kpreid_ [~kpreid@166.190.123.166] has joined #lisp 02:28:08 benny [~user@i577A1230.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:28:56 Tril [tril@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:35:55 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.54] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:37:56 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:39:00 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:35 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:47 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 02:50:20 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:01 Good morning everyone! 02:55:59 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:11 morning beach 02:56:27 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:58:01 Hola. 02:59:10 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:00:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:02:44 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:04:26 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:44 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 03:05:45 is there a way to have loop loop over an array with across but start at a certain subscript? 03:07:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:09:40 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@166.190.123.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:45 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:00 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:22:00 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 03:22:03 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:09 Snamich: No. 03:24:40 madnificent: I told you the wrong URL for SICL. It is on cl.net now: http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl/ 03:28:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:29:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:56 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.12] has joined #lisp 03:33:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:02 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:39:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:39:48 -!- antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:44:24 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:45:03 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 03:47:21 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:57:27 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 03:59:05 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:59:52 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:19 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 04:07:25 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:38 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 04:12:43 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@44.84-49-150.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:49 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:13:53 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 04:14:21 -!- ephcon is now known as electrify 04:17:36 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:18:04 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:18:14 -!- electrify is now known as ephcon 04:19:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:54 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:03 -!- ephcon is now known as electrify 04:21:40 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:09 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:32 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:25:35 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:26:22 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-97-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:30:19 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:43 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:37:56 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:38:14 -!- revolve [revolve@wind.nullroute.eu.org] has left #lisp 04:38:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:39:41 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:57 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:40:01 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-223.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:31 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 04:45:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46:37 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 04:47:35 For those who are not on the SICL mailing list, I just committed my implementation of the Burger & Dybvig algorithm for accurate and quick printing of floating-point numbers. 04:51:48 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 04:53:56 Snamich: yes. 04:54:30 Snamich: (loop for elem across (make-array new-size :displaced-to old-array displacement-offset offset) do...) 04:54:37 beach: Link? 04:55:02 parser: http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl/ 04:55:22 -!- electrify is now known as ephcon 04:56:05 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:56:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:56:37 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:01 -!- ephcon is now known as mrfredconcklin 04:59:28 pjb: Clever! 04:59:50 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:00:39 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:43 And a compiler sufficiently smart, but no too smart, could even compile it to the same as (loop for i from offset below (+ offset new-size) for elem = (aref old-array i) do ...) 05:01:26 tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:26 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CF4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has joined #lisp 05:04:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CEA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:09:26 Is is possible to rename a directory and/or a file with GIT? 05:10:23 beach: yes. 05:10:37 beach: just use mv. You may use git mv, but it's just mv. 05:10:38 pjb: How? 05:11:15 git actually computes hashes of file parts to know what part move to where, whatever the file paths. 05:11:27 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:11:28 Nice! 05:12:27 pjb: Does it get renamed when someone does a pull? 05:12:35 AgentSt0nE [AgentSt0nE@c-71-205-118-3.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:39 Indeed. 05:12:49 Hey, that *is* nice! 05:13:02 -!- AgentSt0nE [AgentSt0nE@c-71-205-118-3.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:13:11 it's a minimum, for a DVCS. 05:14:26 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:14:31 Sure, but we have seen some in the past that couldn't do that. 05:14:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.108.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:15:59 *_3b* 's understanding is that it doesn't actually track renames, everything is just add or delete, but it detects moves when you ask if something moved (by looking at history, etc) 05:16:42 <_3b> so that way, if it gets a better move-detection algorithm at some point, it works on old moves as well 05:17:00 <_3b> (and handles copies, partial copies, etc) 05:17:18 We could check the inode, but we can consider it as a low-level optimization, and not rely on inode invariance. 05:22:05 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 05:33:04 -!- X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:43 X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:33:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 05:33:51 -!- X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:42 X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 -!- X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:37 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-223.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:06 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:48:44 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:57:13 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-73-43.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:10:07 Actually, I was considering renaming what is now the Format module to the Printer module, but it could actually be useful to distribute those separately. 06:12:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113541 06:12:23 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:12:27 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:12:37 any comments on the above would be appreciated 06:13:25 -!- srolls [~srolls@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:14:33 Snamich: Why do you mix loop and do? 06:15:26 Snamich: There is a general rule in programming, which is to use the most specific construct that will do the job. Thus (+ x 1) is usually expressed as (1+ x), (- x 1) as (1- x), (= x 0) as (zerop x), etc. 06:15:36 I had it all using tail-recursive functions first, then switched to loop and I liked the way the do form looked better 06:15:39 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 06:15:43 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 06:15:51 k 06:16:01 Snamich: I thought you were asking for comments, no? 06:16:41 I am, did I say something to make you think otherwise? 06:17:02 Not important. 06:18:11 Your loops are inconsistently indented. 06:20:23 that's just the way lisp mode does it if I have something on the same line as the loop 06:20:45 if I leave loop alone and drop everything below it then it will all line up 06:20:52 Snamich: Try (slime-setup '(... slime-indentation)) 06:21:05 k 06:21:40 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:22:07 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 that fixed it 06:22:30 neat, even indents the line after a when 06:22:56 Yep, but has problems with multi-line compound forms after loop keywords such as do. 06:22:58 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.107] has joined #lisp 06:23:55 hi, I d like to know if clisp can only use emulated floating point, or if I can turn off emulation too 06:24:40 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:46 tcleval: what is "emulated floating point"? 06:24:52 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-179-150.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:24:59 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:16 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-177-127.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:25:17 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 06:25:36 it kind of mangled it on the copy, but I put up the loop version I had in place of the do 06:26:04 gmg [~gmg@99-119-74-254.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:16 the reason I went with the do is because I thought it better expressed the ending clause 06:26:20 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:26:37 beach: clisp webpage says "(CLISP has a floating-point emulation built in for platforms that do not support IEEE 754)" 06:27:14 tcleval: Why would you turn that off on platforms that don't support IEEE 754? 06:28:39 beach: ok, I dont know what platforms do what platforms dont support it. So, pc running linux/windows does support it? clisp use emulation on these platforms? 06:29:16 tcleval: yes. And no. 06:29:42 tcleval: Does it matter? 06:29:54 tcleval: I am pretty sure it would use native FP calculations on those platforms. 06:30:50 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 06:31:32 well I was confused when the site said it could use emulation, as I have my C background, you can imagine that I got scared about the idea of having all floating point computations emulated 06:32:04 <_3b> C uses emulated Fp on platforms without hardware support too 06:32:17 tcleval: But if you turn it off on platforms that don't have I IEEE, you wouldn't be able to perform any FP operations at all. 06:32:28 ok, now I got the idea 06:33:11 so.. changing the subject. what is the most portable clisp implementation? 06:33:22 tcleval: There is only one. 06:33:23 <_3b> 'clisp' is the name of a specific implementation 06:33:36 I mean CL or Common List 06:33:40 <_3b> (probably one of the more portable CL implementations) 06:33:43 lisp* 06:34:12 tcleval: CLISP is very portable, since it doesn't rely on native code generation. 06:34:21 <_3b> well, now we have to question whether you mean 'clisp' or 'cl' for the first question too :p 06:34:43 :) 06:34:44 <_3b> sbcl and ccl have both been ported to a number of platforms 06:34:48 clisp site says it is slower compared to other lisp implementations.. is it that bad? 06:34:52 _3b: Probably CLISP, because there is no web page for CL. 06:35:06 yep 06:35:10 tcleval: If you want speed, yes, I guess than that's bad. 06:35:11 clisp 06:35:15 <_3b> beach: right, but someone confusing the terms might not notice that :) 06:35:24 ^^ 06:35:47 josemanuel [~josemanue@19.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:35:55 <_3b> clisp also tends to be smaller than some of the faster implementations, so it is a tradeoff, not just 'bad' 06:37:29 So, sort of depends on what you're writing, too? 06:37:37 <_3b> right 06:37:38 I am new to this whole lisp thing :-) - question: for example maxima is coded in CL, and compile on many implementions, so does it mean that most CL implementations follow ANSI ? I mean, if I write code in CL can I compile it on any implementation ? 06:37:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:07 or there are huge differences? 06:38:15 <_3b> tcleval: right, ansi CL should work on any good implementation of ansi cl :) 06:38:23 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 06:38:32 <_3b> there are differences once you get beyond ansi cl, but there are also portability libs for many of those areas 06:38:37 tcleval: Most implementations try very hard to be ANSI compliant. 06:38:49 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:02 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:11 <_3b> (clisp for example tends to add in a bunch of extra features that other implementations leave to external libraries to implement) 06:39:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/113541 06:40:14 humm... another question: what are the IDE's / editors most used by CL programmers? what are the ones more interactive? showing docs / completion ... 06:40:32 <_3b> slime (an emacs mode) is the most popular here 06:40:54 <_3b> some people prefer the IDEs that come with commercial implementations, or try to coerce other editors into being useful 06:41:13 <_3b> (cusp for eclipse, various attempts for vim, etc) 06:41:16 there's the mangled loop version beach, I didn't like it because I had the top go from 1 to n, which isn't what I needed for the termination clause, but I do need the x variable so it had to be there, so I thought it was a little clearer to use do 06:41:30 Cusp seems nice except Eclipse takes like forever to load. 06:41:38 <_3b> and you have to use eclipse :p 06:41:50 lol Yeah, eclipse is just like that 06:42:16 Why *is* it that slow? 06:42:29 Snamich: You can just write (loop for x from 1 until ...) 06:43:28 Fox [~~3@203-219-242-59.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:43:38 Snamich: Actually, you need (loop for x from 1 by 2 until ...) 06:43:46 yeah, okay, that'll work 06:44:12 tcleval: slimv is quite ok if you're a vimhead. 06:44:50 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:45:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:46:00 and .. now about variables: for example, in Haskell variables are imutables... is that right imutables? my english suck. and in CL does variables change their values like in C? 06:46:46 tcleval: You can assign new values to variables in CL. 06:46:54 What made you think you couldn't? 06:47:05 tcleval: (defvar x 1) (setf x 2) x => 2 06:47:23 tcleval: CL isn't functional like haskell. 06:48:04 wouldn't it be correct to say it can be, but isn't purely functional? 06:48:13 Isn't it still considered questionable if you rely too much on assignment though? 06:48:23 I am just learning this but I mean I get that impression 06:48:30 Mesh: Depends on your problem. 06:48:33 Snamich: It can be whatever. You could use it as purely functional if you'd like. 06:48:43 beach: I have many problems do you have a couch 8( 06:48:53 <_3b> Mesh: no more than in other languages (but it can be a bad sign anywhere) 06:49:01 Mesh: If you use an OO style, you often depend heavily on objects maintaining and changing state. 06:49:51 <_3b> beach: but arguably, those objects should be changing state in response to messages/member function calls/some GF api, rather than being mutated arbitrarily :) 06:49:57 also I'm pretty sure games require it too, unless you do something like how that world teachpack from PltScheme does it. Except that sounded really inefficient to me. 06:50:19 Mesh: haskell game devs surely disagree :) 06:50:47 Well yeah but they're smarter than me :( 06:50:57 ok... lol 06:51:42 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-11.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 *_3b* suspsctes this discussion is a bit too general to be useful though... 'bad code is bad', and 'bad code written due to unthinking avoidance of code that does X, because X is bad, is bad' 06:52:27 beach: thanks for the help 06:52:38 Snamich: No problem. 06:52:46 _3b: How dare you say bad is bad! 06:53:13 <_3b> schmrkc: don't worry, i'm just using hyperbole for dramatic effect 06:53:51 bye.. g2g 06:54:04 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.107] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:54:09 3b: Oh you mean like overengineering stuff before you actually deal with it, which is why you get those kids on Gamedev.net mistakenly coming up with ginormous and largely useless class hierarchies because they think they're supposed to? 06:54:51 Mesh: You're a game dev? 06:55:02 Mesh: Why aren't you in #lispgames? (: 06:55:11 Because I'm not that far yet :( 06:55:18 hey neither am I 06:55:24 all I ever did was an amazing duck hunt clone. 06:55:30 Also not really a game dev, although I did write this... game engine thing in C++ back last fall/early this spring, which was pretty fun. 06:55:30 cl-uck hunt. 06:55:45 I sort of want to write a SimEarth clone as a lisp learning experiment, though. 06:55:50 How about a CL game engine ? should be pretty fun :) 06:57:22 I could rewrite the thing in Lisp I guess, although, like... I sort of want to make a SimEarth clone, and said engine is completely unsuitable for that. 06:58:19 Interesting. 06:58:26 The idea behind it was to start off writing something like a top down, Ultima 4-ish engine. Only instead of being geared at stat-driven RPGs, it would be working with a bunch of game entities that weren't defined by stats at all, but rather like... just how they behaved. 06:58:27 I don't quite remember simearth. Go for it :) 06:58:46 I liked the early ultimas :) 06:58:52 So it's sort of not suited for anything that needs a lot of numbers going on. 06:59:11 well from 3 to 4 mostly 06:59:21 to 5 actually 06:59:33 from 2 maybe? 06:59:40 Although I think I learned more in the five or four months I spent working on it than I did in all of my C++ classes :( 06:59:53 Mesh: Sounds normal :) 06:59:56 Ultima 2 didn't really work right. It's that one where you could go to a bunch of planets but most of them were empty. 07:00:36 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 07:01:04 schmrkc: The fun thing is that I was in this data structurs & algorithms class at the time, which was basically a really slow and unintersting class about the STL, and as soon as I started working on that thing my grades like shot up to A's in that class. 07:01:39 Because it's like "Oh, yeah, a vector of linked lists containing function pointers. I was just using one of those" or whatever. 07:03:34 Mesh: was this at a university? 07:03:49 Yeah. 07:04:16 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:05:42 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:09:28 What happened to minion? 07:09:40 -!- gmg [~gmg@99-119-74-254.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:10:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:36 minion is now known as drewc :) 07:11:16 but it actually just ping timeout from my logs 07:11:42 So no bots? 07:11:49 clhs list 07:11:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 07:12:03 Specbot seems to be here. 07:12:06 Mesh: which O.o 07:12:31 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 07:12:36 BGSU in ohio 07:13:31 Mesh: so from memory u5 was my favorite, as it had the 4ish engine without the overly boring theme+tasks+ethics of u4 07:13:38 there are a lot of project-euler problems.... 07:14:47 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.cdif.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:38 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:16:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.8] has joined #lisp 07:18:38 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:06 tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:51 Hmm, it won't be fun to write the docstring for FORMAT. 07:23:02 Haha. 07:24:00 [1]Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 07:24:57 -!- [1]Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Client Quit] 07:27:11 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:27:38 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-179-150.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:14 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:38:26 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 07:42:38 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:44:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:51:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:01 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 07:59:39 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:59:53 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-138-23.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:01:43 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-8-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:46 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:07:34 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:40 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-138-23.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:31 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:18:05 Does SBCL use the Clinger algorithm for reading floats? (I could check the code, but I figured if someone here knows, that might be faster and easier). 08:18:54 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:28 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:21 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has joined #lisp 08:32:05 I guess not. 08:33:54 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-146.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:34:38 Oh, I don't know, beach. :) 08:35:30 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 08:35:52 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:38:53 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-11.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 08:40:52 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:41:03 I grepped (-i) for clinger in the sources. I figure they would give him credit if they were using his stuff. 08:42:28 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-220.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:13 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-220.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:45:51 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-44.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:51 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:51:49 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-220.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-179-220.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:09 ZabaQ [~john.conn@host86-145-59-119.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:56 timor [~timor@port-92-195-51-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:06:31 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:08:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-5-153.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:10:10 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3260CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:14 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BB06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:54 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-138-23.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:19 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:34 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:55 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:31:41 serichsen [~user@g227196054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 Good morning! 09:39:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 09:43:01 astalla [~astalla@net-188-153-11-82.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:52:46 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-66-27.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:11:28 hello serichsen 10:14:15 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:22 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-110-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:15:11 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:35 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-146.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:20:14 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:23:06 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has joined #lisp 10:24:01 e-future [~e-future@a89-152-187-244.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:24:07 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24:09 -!- e-future 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[~astalla@net-188-153-8-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 13:38:05 beach: Nice implementation of Burger and Dybvig. 13:42:43 claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:56 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:43:41 -!- claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:01 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:26 claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has joined #lisp 13:47:29 m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:47:43 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:47 goldenlight [goldenligh@devio.us] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:53:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:53:37 ikki [~ikki@189.247.3.192] has joined #lisp 13:56:58 -!- SEANKuo [~guoshaona@2001:0:53aa:64c:6e:42c7:8ccc:ca77] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:04:37 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:40 silenius [~silenus@p5494672C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:48 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BCACD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:51 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BCACD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:55 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:50 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:15:15 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-116-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:18:45 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:22:34 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:27 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-5451.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:08 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 14:26:55 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-188-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:32:49 rtoym: Thanks! 14:33:28 lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:09 Much nicer than the one in cmucl, which is a translation of the scheme code. 14:34:33 rtoym: Yeah, I didn't like the looks of the Scheme code at all. 14:35:09 I think your comments about the normalized representation is wrong wrt IEEE, but if it's not intended to be IEEE, then it's ok. 14:35:29 rtoym: Wrong in what way? 14:36:00 IEEE normalized numbers are 1 <= m < 2, so the hidden bit is the integer, and the rest is the fraction part. 14:36:21 rtoym: I am afraid I have to insist that that is only a matter of how it is presented. 14:36:38 rtoym: It changes in no way whatsoever how a particular number is stored. 14:36:41 No, no. I agree with you. But the IEEE spec (IIRC) says that. 14:36:55 That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. 14:37:10 rtoym: Sure, but they have no business telling me how I should think about things. :) 14:38:02 rtoym: Does CMUCL have an implementation of the Clinger algorithm for reading floats? 14:38:06 But you talk about the canonical IEEE rep. 14:38:51 I don't really know. I did look through the code and clinger's paper. It's not obvious that they're the same, after looking for a minute. 14:39:48 rtoym: The most obvious method is to apply (float ...) to the rational you get by just reading the digits. 14:40:07 I know that's how pjb does it in his reader. 14:40:39 -!- m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:11 Yes, this is what cmucl does. But the conversion of the rational to float is done carefully. It basically does a fixed-point division to get the fraction bits, and looks at the remainder to see how to round the result. I think. 14:41:13 tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-72-43-211-117.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:15 m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:43:30 rtoym: Well, I haven't read up on, nor contemplated, algorithms for rational-to-float conversion, so I don't know what's involved. Clinger claims to be able to use ordinary integer arithmetic (not bignum) about 99% of the time. 14:44:05 rtoym: Implementing the Clinger method could be substantially faster. 14:44:23 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-188-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:31 I bet it would be. 14:44:46 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:45:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:45:51 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48:13 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 14:49:13 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:34 AndroUser2 [~androirc@77.16.149.29.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 14:51:01 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@202.173.162.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:32 -!- astalla [~astalla@net-188-153-8-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:52:50 beach: Are you going to support printing to fewer significant digits? 14:52:57 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:13 rtoym: I think I have to. Format requires it. 14:53:40 Yes, it does. 14:54:12 rtoym: The reason I am doing this right now is that the only part missing in Format is floating-point, and I would like to get that module out the door, especially since I am fairly satisfied with the way it was written. 14:55:57 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-72-43-211-117.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:45 sykopomp: ping 15:00:08 lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 -!- AndroUser2 [~androirc@77.16.149.29.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:08 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:32 lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:34 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-2-129.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 15:04:42 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.160.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:05:11 astalla [~astalla@net-188-153-1-36.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:23 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-188-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:02 jdz [~jdz@host127-110-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:08:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-2-129.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:11:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:14 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-162.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:14:41 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:46 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:17:35 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 good evening 15:20:33 -!- silenius [~silenus@p5494672C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:58 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-188-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-12-14.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 hello ost 15:30:46 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 15:33:27 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:32 -!- goldenlight [goldenligh@devio.us] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:39:37 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:48 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:43:00 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:45:47 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:35 -!- astalla [~astalla@net-188-153-1-36.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:22 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:52 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12ld6f8.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:58 tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:15 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:41 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:18 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-88-117.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:02:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-179-32.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A4EA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 astalla [~astalla@net-188-153-5-247.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 16:10:43 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:46 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-148-10.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:58 if I have something that looks like this (FOO BAR Ak Av Bk Bv Ck Cv) 16:16:17 well actually 16:16:21 its all key values 16:16:31 but its not in any lisp type 16:16:53 is there a easy way to get value out of this 16:17:00 Looks like a list to me ... 16:17:16 sure its a list 16:17:21 kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 but it has key value pairs in it 16:17:40 See destructuring-bind, and learn how to spell "it's". 16:17:50 I think he's looking for getf 16:18:51 getf sounds like it might be right 16:19:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:30 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:50 It's funny how O'reilly say on their website that a lisp book is not what they want to publish yet they're publishing one this year and another one in the future 16:21:17 funny haha or funny weird? 16:21:31 I wonder if it has anything to do with practical common lisp being a success 16:21:48 Funny ironic.. you could laugh at it I guess 16:22:17 There's this one here: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781593272814 16:22:21 did they publish one yet this year ? 16:22:27 And this: http://lisp-book.org/ 16:22:32 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 October 2010 apparently 16:22:52 Krystof: yes that worked thanks 16:24:00 i like this 'practical' practical text on lisp 16:24:05 http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/ 16:25:05 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:25:51 Borbus: Land of Lisp is published by "No Starch Press", and the latter book is not happening anymore. 16:26:09 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:29 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:16 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 16:29:17 drewc: hmm, oh yeah, it seems the author of the latter is ill 16:35:53 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:25 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:45:58 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:17 danlei` [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 16:49:39 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:47 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:47 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:49:47 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:51:34 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 16:53:22 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@19.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 16:54:40 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:54:50 dreish_ [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:55:35 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:57:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:58:11 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:59:57 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-73-43.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:04 -!- delYsid [~user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:09 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:08 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:52 kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has joined #lisp 17:12:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-186.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-124-137.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:07 ry509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:04 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-57.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:25 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-124-137.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.106.94] has joined #lisp 17:30:54 Does anyone know of a library that translates from CL to php (something like the idea behind parenscript) ? 17:33:45 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:47 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54896607.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 17:33:58 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:25 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 davazp [~user@83.54.164.142] has joined #lisp 17:41:03 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-88.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-57.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.60.71] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-111.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:28 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-88.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:27 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.106.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:58 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:59:18 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:01:04 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-162.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:19 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:44 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:50 retroj: yeah? 18:07:57 -!- dreish_ [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:24 Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:31 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:03 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-12-14.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:20:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-15-175.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:21:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:56 sykopomp: yo... getting back to playing with sheeple, and i switched to the devel branch. i noticed that it no longer automatically creates accessors for getting and setting properties.. so is the "right way" now to use (property-value ....) and (setf (property-value ...) ...)? 18:24:14 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12ld6f8.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 18:24:42 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:25:43 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 18:25:47 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 18:26:33 jmbr [~jmbr@95.169.253.44] has joined #lisp 18:27:28 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:32:15 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 18:34:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.60.71] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:36:10 [1]Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39:15 -!- [1]Mesh is now known as Mesh 18:39:42 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:57 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:38 retroj: well, devel is experimental. We were playing around with enforcing definition of messages/genfuns for _all_ replies/methods. 18:49:00 -!- davazp [~user@83.54.164.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:54 sykopomp: it's a good change... the way it was before was polluting my namespace.. 18:50:42 retroj: I think something worth trying is to write something like a defaccessor macro that defines generic primary replies for accessing properties. 18:50:56 retroj: and still defining messages _first_. 18:51:15 sykopomp: not sure i understand... i don't know much about the guts of sheeple 18:51:25 It might even be okay to not define accessors at all unless you expect them to be part of the _protocol_ 18:51:26 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 sykopomp: oh, ok, i understand 18:51:51 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has left #lisp 18:51:53 retroj: in CLOS terms: "write a defaccessor macro that defines a generic primary method for accessing slots, the same way the :accessor option does" 18:52:23 Actually, I don't remember if :accessor is still a valid option for defproto... 18:52:36 sykopomp: can you point me to documentation about how to have methods call an object's parent's methods? basic method inheritance in other words 18:52:52 (call-next-reply) 18:52:55 Okay so I just found out that (put 'if 'lisp-indent-function nil) is needed in .emacs for if statements to get tabbed right. Are there are things like that I need, or like, a list of them online somewhere..? 18:53:00 sykopomp: ah, thank you 18:53:04 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:53:36 Mesh: SLIME indents if properly. 18:53:47 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@host86-145-59-119.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 18:54:08 slime indents? 18:55:04 stassats`: doesn't SLIME take care of indentation for macros, IF, etc?... 18:55:06 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-21-69.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:22 Mesh: what was the value of 'lisp-indent-function on 'if before? i've never had a problem... 18:56:01 sykopomp: it only sends some info about arglists 18:56:18 retroj: ah yes. :accessor still exists -- the idea now would be that you DEFMESSAGE whatever your protocol is going to be, and pass the :accessor option to properties on a prototype to get it to hook into the message you want. 18:56:22 lisp-mode is doing the indentation 18:56:34 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 Well, it wasn't intenting properly, so I had to put that in there. Now I'm... confused. Oh well. 18:57:26 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host14-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:58:11 Mesh: (info "(emacs)Lisp Indent") 18:58:43 oh wait. 18:58:50 sykopomp: does that mean you would need both a DEFMESSAGE and an :accessor? 18:58:59 Bronsa [~bronsa@host14-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:58:59 I remember reading that if I didn't set it to nil it would use the emacs lisp indentation style for if-statements, which is different. 18:59:02 Or at least that's what it sounded like? 18:59:18 retroj: correct. 18:59:32 sykopomp: interesting 18:59:47 retroj: the idea is to define a protocol using defmessage, as opposed to automagically generating messages that aren't really documented anywhere. 18:59:48 -!- eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:03 sykopomp: for now i can stick to just property-value, until that stuff is finished enough to call stable 19:00:20 ah 19:00:28 slime-setup sets lisp-indent-function to common-lisp-indent-function for IF 19:00:29 that makes certain sense 19:00:45 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-189.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:56 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-5451.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:01:02 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-189.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 19:01:05 some comments drewc made stuck with me, and adlai and I thought it would be worth a shot. 19:01:29 sykopomp: i guess adlai is off on other callings right now.. are you still working on sheeple much? 19:01:41 retroj: I haven't really touched sheeple this year. 19:01:51 and I'm not currently using it in any of my projects. 19:02:02 so it's a bit dormant right now :\ 19:02:02 sykopomp: well, just know that you have fans who are rooting for you 19:02:08 :) 19:03:46 I've been kinda toying with the idea of adding something like type classes to sheeple. 19:04:03 and maybe getting rid of delegation. 19:04:33 but between my job and the other projects I've been working on, I haven't really had time to explore that weird stuff. 19:05:05 eugu_ [~eugu@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 19:10:28 tcr: Huh. Maybe slime-setup isn't getting called..? Sorry, I'm pretty new at this. 19:11:18 sykopomp: what did i say? :) 19:12:08 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-125-148.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:11 *drewc* heard his bell ring and wants to know the context 19:12:34 -!- benny [~user@i577A1230.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:52 -!- DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-24-166-73-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:57 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:10 ah, something to do with CLOS protocols vs slots i assume 19:13:15 *drewc* slinks back to work 19:13:26 DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-24-166-73-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:28 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-111.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:29 drewc: You were talking about your preference for _always_ defining generic functions when you used :accessor or similar. 19:17:49 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:11 sykopomp: yeah, or almost always anyway, if it's an exported interface. 19:19:01 then again, in my o/r mapping accessors named class.slot are defined automatically by the metaclass... it all depends on context. 19:19:30 drewc: You were once in ##C ? 19:20:27 parser: possibly, but not for any length of time. 19:20:36 *drewc* hasn't done a lot of work in C in ~3 years 19:24:22 so defgeneric's would all have to be evaluated before any defproto's that contained :accessor's? 19:25:14 gz [~gz@66-189-11-34.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:51 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:26 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:27:05 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:40 Is it possible to see (or step through) the machine code generated for a method dispatch (on SBCL)? 19:30:45 -!- gz [~gz@66-189-11-34.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has left #lisp 19:34:39 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:33 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-25-89.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:36:41 Good evening everyone! 19:36:42 jewel: yes: that's what disassembly the generic function will give you. 19:36:45 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 (this may reveal less than you think: you might want to read the internals documentation about method dispatch) 19:38:25 -!- jdz [~jdz@host127-110-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:27 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host14-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:38:59 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has joined #lisp 19:39:11 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 19:41:46 I use sbcl on ubuntu and I have the cl-ppcre package installed (by ubuntu) but when I try to use it I get "package "CL-PPCRE" not found" 19:42:00 It is definitely installed because stumpwm uses it, what am I doing wrong? 19:42:57 Borbus: The concept of a Common Lisp "package" may not be what you expect. 19:43:01 kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has joined #lisp 19:43:09 Krystof, yes I've read some of the documentation about dispatch but I would most like to step through it 19:44:21 Borbus: In CL, you don't "install" packages. You create them. In order for the cl-ppcre package to be created, you either have to create it yourself our load a file that creates it. 19:44:58 Borbus: I am guessing that you didn't load the file that creates the package cl-ppcre. 19:45:33 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@95.169.253.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:32 beach: Ah yes, I do understand cl packages, I guess I thought there would be some magic that ran defpackage for "installed" packages 19:49:09 So how do I find and run the defpackage for ppcre? 19:49:35 Borbus: usually via asdf, e.g. (asdf:load-system 'cl-ppcre) or similar 19:52:36 What's new and exciting? 19:53:49 -!- Hraban [~Hraban@78-21-53-40.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:09 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:13 retroj: DEFMESSAGEs, but yes. 19:55:35 retroj: that is how it works right now: :accessor 'name works, but it errors if there is no message with that name already defined. 19:56:00 it should also signal an error if the lambda-list for the message doesn't match. 19:56:25 sykopomp: oh interesting 19:56:26 Xach: kind of hard not to mention lispy now, is it? 19:56:48 madnificent: Oh? 19:56:59 retroj: that way, someone can look at your DEFMESSAGEs+DEFPACKAGE to figure out what your protocol is supposed to be. 19:57:04 sykopomp: so to be correct, i should be putting my DEFMESSAGE forms before my DEFPROTO forms... 19:57:07 madnificent: why's that? 19:57:12 retroj: yup 19:57:50 Xach: lispy can load libraries too, no? 19:57:57 sykopomp: k, thanks 19:58:12 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:21 madnificent: I think so. I haven't tried it. 19:58:33 Xach: wait, you built lispy, didn't you? 19:58:38 I'm not sure I even have the asdf package defined... 19:58:38 who was building lispy? 19:58:55 madnificent: I am working on something called quicklisp. 19:59:07 A toy language? 19:59:12 madnificent: I think Matthew Kennedy? is working on lispy? 19:59:17 *Xach* can't quite remember 19:59:33 Ah, I guess not. 19:59:46 Xach: I tried something out for someone... I thought it was you. can quicklisp install packages? 20:00:07 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-40-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:00:11 madnificent: yes. 20:00:17 parser: source/library/app distribution. 20:00:38 sykopomp: :) 20:00:53 Xach: and it is really really new? 20:01:10 madnificent: yes 20:01:18 i am working on a short screencast demo today 20:01:28 it will show the current state of affairs 20:01:36 then I correct my sentence: Xach: kind of hard not to mention quicklisp now, is it? 20:01:55 madnificent: Well, I don't know when it will be useful to the general public, so I'm keeping it more under my hat :) 20:02:00 Xach: please let me know when it's published :) 20:02:18 madnificent: follow @quicklisp on twitter and you'll know right away! 20:02:26 Xach: am doing so right now! 20:02:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.3.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:14 Xach: i'm of the opinion that it is already more useful to the general public then any of the other options! 20:04:21 Xach: Git a link to quicklisp, or is it just twitter? 20:04:43 drewc: yeah, but you're a mega nerd. 20:04:53 Haha 20:05:01 s/Git/Got 20:05:09 parser: quicklisp.org has some links. We chat about it in #quicklisp, too. 20:05:15 Ah. 20:05:20 If you'd like to try what's available, mosey there. 20:06:45 I'll take a gander. 20:08:15 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:37 Xach: i suppose that's fair, but one need not be a mega-nerd to 'sbcl -load quicklisp.lisp' :D 20:09:34 drewc: that's easier than setting up asdf for clisp... (or do you still need to do that?) 20:10:10 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:05 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:13:06 madnificent: quicklisp sets up asdf itself. 20:13:28 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-154.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:15:10 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-44.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:15:11 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:40 drewc: yeah, but it takes a mega-nerd to overlook no client updates, no good system browsing, no integrity verification, etc... 20:15:53 then quicklisp is simpler than asdf 20:16:15 Xach: and are all of those supported in other systems? 20:17:30 Xach: well, where do most people wanting to use Lisp fall on the nerd spectrum? 20:17:47 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-161.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:50 my anecdotal evidence shows a strong bias towards the Mega :) 20:19:45 My point is that if you were content to live in the awful conditions that existed earlier, slightly less awful will seem great. But if you're not already conditioned to accept crap, you won't be as impressed. 20:19:50 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:19:51 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-125-148.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:57 "existed earlier" => "exist now" 20:20:01 that is a valid point 20:20:35 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-143-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@38-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:38 but still, if it is better than the previous efforts, we could support it throughout its evolution 20:21:02 lemoinem [~swoog@126-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:13 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-161.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:24 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-34.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:46 general question... is common-lisp-controller back in favor now that it supposedly plays nice with clbuild? 20:27:05 retroj: afaik not 20:27:28 it is practically a brand new program, though still has the same name 20:27:58 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:10 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-143-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:35 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-79-148.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:37 I have kind of a question about the (A)GPL and lisp: I'm working on an application whose source code is AGPLd. One of the things this app does for 'scripting' is that it stores PRIN1-TO-STRINGed versions of certain 'scripts' in a database. When it loads up, it grabs these scripts and loads them into memory, to execute when certain commands are called. I'm wondering if this means that I need to make all of those scripts also AGPL/GPL, or 20:29:37 if the scripts can be considered data separate from the source code of the app. 20:30:12 (preferably, I'd like to not have to publish those 'scripts', while still distributing the main application as AGPL) 20:31:50 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-199.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:07 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-79-148.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:32 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:33 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-238.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-199.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:45 sykopomp: ianal, but it looks to me like a judges might interpret that the same way as the clisp case 20:38:07 sykopomp: if it's really important: ask a lawyer. If the scripts may be published in the long term: you only need to supply GPL scripts on demand and you may do so in any format you want. You could provide them in a printed form for some fee... 20:38:57 tbh, what I can always do is consider 'official' sykosomatic to be closed source :) 20:39:10 sykopomp: ah, that's another thing 20:39:37 sykopomp: if you provide source code without any license, then people technically aren't allowed to let it be intepreted by a computer... 20:40:09 sykopomp: you could also use MIT, which doesn't create these strange issues 20:40:13 madnificent: I mean, I can provide an AGPLd version that is 'vanilla', without those scripts included. 20:40:27 I'd prefer to use AGPL here, honestly. 20:40:39 sykopomp: yes, exactly, there is nothing in the gpl that forces you to distribute anything. 20:41:08 sykopomp: yes, but then you wouldn't be able to use the modifications people make to your AGPL code in your private distribution 20:41:39 s/wouldn't/won't/ 20:41:55 drewc: the AGPL does, if it's a server-side application. 20:42:09 drewc: but not when you're the copyright owner :) 20:42:29 drewc: GPL forces you to distribute the code (on demand) if you distribute the binaries 20:42:30 madnificent: that's a good point. 20:42:44 madnificent: GPL does not apply to web applications, but I'm talking about AGPL here. 20:42:53 sykopomp: if your scripts are not derived from the AGPL'd program, you can licence them however you wish 20:42:54 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins Seems to cover this, too. 20:42:58 sykopomp: then again, you can always move to AGPL for your scripts if there's enough user input ;) 20:43:13 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 drewc: madnificent makes a good point about not being able to reuse others' source code. 20:43:36 sykopomp: I said "If you distribute the binary", I wansn't supplying that info for your particular case ): 20:43:41 sykopomp: that was a :) 20:43:54 he does indeed, and a better one about MIT 20:44:11 drewc: in this particular circumstance, I'd rather enforce code-sharing. 20:44:32 I think I'm okay with making those scripts also be AGPL, in the end. 20:44:38 sykopomp: why don't you release under AGPL for now and see how it goes? 20:44:47 sykopomp: please do publish some of the scripts as examples 20:45:06 madnificent: well, it's technically _already_ all published under the AGPL. 20:45:08 sykopomp: your point in #lispgames was quite good 20:45:11 hwat little there is of it. 20:45:15 well, it excludes a certain portion of people who might like to use your code, and contribute, but can't GPL their code 20:46:12 drewc: wouldn't they request a different format? 20:46:13 I can also add an exception to the license that specifically excludes these scripts, actually. 20:46:27 s/format/license/ 20:47:07 sykopomp: yes, but then you wouldn't be OSI compliant anymore... that makes it harder for people to interpret your license 20:47:10 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:25 probably the best solution either case 20:47:42 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:47:48 madnificent: I'm not quite sure the point about "keep certain things secret for the players' sake" is all that great, either. 20:48:01 -!- TomJ [~tomj@78.148.49.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:10 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-17-124-50.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 madnificent: if the author has made all contributors sign over copyright, then it's possible, but it's discouraging and murky compared to something like the MIT license. 20:49:39 sykopomp: it's the story and the items... then again, in the old days you could just read the images and such in the red alert folder... you'd still want to play the game 20:49:48 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:10 drewc: that'd be especially dirty. But it would work, yes. 20:50:43 madnificent: I specifically want to prevent closed-source derivatives. 20:50:55 _danb_ [~user@203-158-56-227.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:51:30 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:52:39 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-15-175.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:46 sykopomp: I'd probably prefer you to go for the license with the exclusion. However, I do wonder if it will hold in court. 20:53:08 madnificent: if/when that becomes an issue, I'll probably have a lawyer to ask :) 20:53:12 why aren't there lawyers concerned with open source? Why aren't there people with such a degree here :) 20:53:27 here, specifically? Maybe not. 20:53:27 sykopomp: then go ahead. What are you building? 20:54:09 madnificent: I've been working on sykosomatic again, is all. 20:54:35 sykopomp: finally! 20:54:37 madnificent: and verbs for the game are actually lambda expressions stored as strings, in the database. 20:54:55 madnificent: you can check it out right now! :) 20:55:06 sykopomp: I have an exam tomorow, I should focus 20:55:09 it's got... not much going for it right now, but I'm glad to be working on it again. 20:55:20 sykopomp: does that mean that more sheeple code is going to be released in the near future? 20:55:23 maybe in 5 years, it'll even be playable. 20:55:30 it doesn't use Sheeple at all. 20:55:42 sykopomp: but we'll have a whole bunch of libraries because of it! 20:55:47 ok 20:55:56 I think the biggest lesson here is that I wasted^H^H^H^H^H^Hspent two years writing what I thought were 'ideal' tools, but really didn't get anything done. 20:56:06 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:19 so now I'm just hacking things together in the fastest, ugliest way possible. Whatever it takes to have something that runs. 20:57:00 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@126-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:03 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:04 jds` [~user@69.151.65.94] has joined #lisp 20:57:23 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.175.60.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:57:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:15 pragmatic 20:59:04 in slime, i use ",cd" to change to my project directory, but when I do ",load-system" it does not find the asdf system for my project in the completions. any ideas what i'm missing? i had it working previously 20:59:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:04 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-238.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:22 sykopomp: sheeple is one of your ideal tools and it kicks ass 21:00:24 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-181-192.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:45 retroj: :) 21:01:21 TomJ [~tomj@78.148.49.136] has joined #lisp 21:01:33 madnificent: in re keeping parts of source code secret for the sake of gameplay. 21:01:38 I think, in the end, it doesn't matter. 21:02:11 if a secret is going to get out, it'll get out, regardless of whether your source code is public or not. 21:02:30 Players who actually care will just put up a wiki, and reverse-engineer your gameplay. 21:02:43 kpreid_ [~kpreid@32.173.176.128] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-74-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 madnificent: notice how, even though Dwarf Fortress is closed source, there's quite a bit of information about its 'secrets' already published in wikis. 21:03:35 sykopomp: that's because the datafiles aren't hidden 21:03:48 in fact, the format is quite open 21:03:55 p_l: even if they were, players can simply document their experiences. 21:04:08 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@75.128.11.42] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 21:04:21 what is closed source is the engine, and even that isn't fully closed - the graphic engine source is available 21:04:32 (though not sure about license) 21:04:54 sykopomp: I saw you say that in #lispgames. I found it to be a valid point 21:05:15 I'm torn. 21:05:34 part of me thinks, though, that something like what I'm working on would benefit most from arm-twisting Freedom. 21:05:34 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-181-192.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:46 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 21:07:04 bbiab 21:07:13 Okay, I think I'll go finish gentle introduction so thatI can get on with my life. Macros ahoy. 21:07:22 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:32 symbole: mostly anything benefits from arm-twisting freedom... 21:08:46 symbole: sorry, that was for sykopomp, who had to leave :( 21:09:49 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:59 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:59 23:39:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot Amadiro_ Avisch adeht redline6561 abugosh rbarraud tcleval holycow billitch wbooze homie ldunn pizzledizzle peterhil_ HET4 tayloj jil lolsuper_ gigamonkey antoszka sbahra symbole_ benny sykopomp lemoinem galdor tessier bobbysmith007 mal__ LiamH jsoft Salamander_ TomJ _danb_ ace4016 legumbre_ pchrist beach DocOnDev Mesh ignas drewc ry509 delYsid dialtone danlei Toekutr zophy Nshag SegFaultAX lichtblau mbohun lnostdal-android bgs100 PuffTheMagic 23:39:59 -!- names: mathrick m4thrick_ peterhil claint carlocci hohoho zomgbie hargettp pdelgallego antifuchs Taggnostr pavelludiq e-future jmcphers Xach serichsen G0SUB daniel_ Beetny rdd Ralith HET2 kleppari Fox MetalDust Yuuhi` mrfredconcklin Tril CrazyEddy salva madnificent hugod slyrus_ s0ber Tordek mjonsson_ tankrim dstatyvka tsuru abeaumont konr` araujo Euthydemus Demosthenes nuba gzip4 skv Adamant Krystof parser Jasko ianmcorvidae specbot lisppaste sonnym ramus 23:39:59 -!- names: Buganini Guest34549 Quadrescence Lycurgus sid3k marienz billstclair Aferlak12 tychoish christoph_debian lnostdal skyw00lker_ muddyferret trebor_home phadthai Modius stepnem sanjoyd rootzlevel PissedNu1lock johanbev Onyxyte turbo24prg aoh AntiSpamMeta erk__ gonzojive Madsy nullman qsun jrockway p_l zfx erg_ kooll Borbus pok tvaalen amaron golgotha _3b zbigniew Deltafire vsync joshe emma froydnj housel rapacity Holcxjo Bucciarati dcrawford felipe pkhuong_ 23:39:59 -!- names: fda314925 Obfuscate bougyman codemonkeyx ineiros Fade seejay mtd spacebat steven_t arbscht chiiph Patzy lucca clog johs Khisanth albino deepfire reb djinni` krl slyrus cthuluh OliverUv ASau` c|mell Odin- quasisane boyscared Tabmow tomaw dostoyevsky fmu brickhazel schmrkc [df] rahul symbole dym Tasunteld acieroid yacin Adrinael fe[nl]ix nowhere_man bzzbzz scode eno Tristam xavieran_ jgrant Aisling setheus clop Ginei_Morioka mornfall potatishandlarn rotty 23:39:59 -!- names: ASau easyE _3b`` l_a_m_ metasyntax joast derrida egn_ pr_ z0d Axioplase_ pjb ``Erik vinnana franki^ fualo Pepe_ djm dmiles_afk gz` rtoym @Zhivago zeroish lusory Xof ecraven nasloc__ Dazhbog hanneso Xantoz amontez rsynnott cpt_nemo Yamazaki-kun leviathan lonstein levene__ herbieB Draggor kloeri jsnell cYmen xristos pp206 krappie foom joga hc_e jpanest worldhlord hohum cods yahooooo 23:41:51 peterhil: you may also want to read http://jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/papers/features.pdf 23:45:51 /quit 23:46:05 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:26 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.cdif.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:53:46 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:54:10 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12ld6f8.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp