00:00:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:00:11 pjb: im not saying that 00:00:11 But PCL is not for beginners, but for seasonned programmers. 00:00:12 at all 00:00:25 im just asking that what does the book use for compiling code 00:00:29 so i can tag along and use the same thing 00:00:35 f0d: nothing specific. 00:00:46 so how would i know how to follow the examples 00:00:48 It just explains programming and Common Lisp. 00:00:50 or do exercises? 00:00:52 ugh 00:00:57 f0d: just use whatever CL implementation. 00:01:04 jhalogen: thanks for passing on the link. 00:01:18 f0d: and gigamonkey wrote PCL :) 00:01:18 <[1]Mesh> f0d: Nothing's implementation specific in Gentle Introduction 00:01:18 I have some reason to believe there is a Chinese translation under way. I just have no idea if that page is about it. 00:01:25 f0d: there is a standard. That's the whole point of a standard, to define a standard language! 00:01:26 parser: oh? 00:01:42 is hard though? 00:01:45 <[1]Mesh> Except maybe the toolkit section stuff, and the IO stuff worked funny in lisp unless I... forced... output or something. 00:01:46 *gigamonkey* is trying to understand why PCL is given as the single reference on David Moon's Wikipedia page. 00:01:47 like pjb said 00:02:01 When PCL doesn't, as far as I know, ever mention him. 00:02:08 pjb: i just want to learn common lisp 00:02:14 and i want an environment to learn it on 00:02:15 f0d: I remember seeing cmucl in intro chap of gentle. that is most likely what author had used. althoug material is implementation agnostic 00:02:23 if the document im reading doesnt discuss an environment 00:02:23 [1]Mesh: This is standard. Even cross language! You have to flush your buffers! 00:02:34 udzinari: thanks 00:02:37 ugh 00:02:38 -!- f0d [~root@unaffiliated/f0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:02:46 f0d: the environment you chosed, emacs+slime+sbcl is a good one. 00:02:54 <[1]Mesh> pjb: Yeah, although gentle introduction doesn't really make any reference to doing that. 00:03:03 I think he's better off with gigamonkey. 00:03:05 [1]Mesh: No, gentle teaches CL. 00:03:54 <[1]Mesh> pjb: Er, right..? I mean the section on getting input and output... has this exercise about programming something that alternates between prompting the user for input and reading input. 00:03:57 To learn CL, you use a CL tutorial. To learn sbcl, you use the sbcl manual. To learn slime, you use the slime manual. To learn emacs, you use the emacs manual. What's so hard to understand? 00:04:16 pjb: PCL manages to discuss all of those. 00:04:33 well, very loosely. 00:04:34 [1]Mesh: there may be an error in a tutorial. You MUST flush your outputs for interactive work, always, whatever the environment, whatever the language. 00:04:40 gigamonkey: Sure, but all the same. 00:04:57 I tried. It'd be better if Lispbox wasn't suffering so much bitrot. 00:04:57 parser: it happens that I don't use slime or sbcl. So is PCL useless to me? 00:05:00 I found it to be ok, it mightn't be for a beginner to programming, however. 00:05:18 pjb: Not really, it doesn't rely on the assumption that you use either. 00:05:25 gigamonkey: it should be more stand alone, I guess. Perhaps in a VM? 00:05:29 <[1]Mesh> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2078490/lisp-format-and-force-output here, this. 00:05:55 pjb: I suppose that'd be one way. 00:05:57 pjb: Ultimately, people need to learn how to do appropriate research into what they're learning. 00:05:59 [1]Mesh: do you realize that this is not a CL question, but a general question about how computers work, and have worked for 70 years? 00:06:13 pjb: hey, nice idea! very small premade cl vm! 00:06:38 <[1]Mesh> pjb: Did you actually read the link I posted :( 00:06:43 gigamonkey: for example, I tried various Oberon compilers/environment this week, none worked on my Linux (x86-64) machine :-( 00:06:51 If you're hoping to have one document teach you about several technologies, and vigorously fight anyone that tells you to learn several different things, I don't think programming is for you. 00:06:55 <[1]Mesh> CLISP and SBCL work differently in this particular case. 00:07:11 <[1]Mesh> Maybe CLISP automatically flushes output for you and SBCL doesn't. I have no idea what specifically is going on there. 00:07:12 [1]Mesh: Which case is that? 00:07:32 <[1]Mesh> parser: The one that they guy's talking about in that link I gave 00:08:10 <[1]Mesh> In sbcl if you output text with format then read input with read, the input is taken first, and then the output is printed. In CLISP, they happen in whatever order you're calling the functions in. 00:08:11 I should've pointed fod to Succesful Lisp. 00:08:25 [1]Mesh: if you're asking on the technical reason why it would "work" in one implementation and not on the other, we could answer to it. But if you just want to write a conformant program that will work everywhere, the answer is to flush your buffers, and it is always the same answer, whatever the computer, the system or the programming language! 00:08:25 [1]Mesh: Oh, hrm. 00:09:02 <[1]Mesh> pjb: I'm not asking anything. I'm saying that CLISP and SBCL behave differently in that particular case, as does whatever implementation is used by Gentle Introduction. 00:09:05 *parser* exclamates with pjb. 00:09:47 <[1]Mesh> And Gentle Introduction doesn't really mention needing to flush buffers anywhere 00:09:50 [1]Mesh: I've not read that chapter of gentle, but as I said above, if it lacks a finish-output in interactive I/O, then it's an error in the tutorial. 00:10:18 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-24-7-84-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:11:08 [1]Mesh: another thing is that interactive I/O in CL should be done with the *query-io* stream... 00:11:46 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:02 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A70A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:32 [1]Mesh: Do you use SBCL? 00:12:37 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:43 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:02 [1]Mesh: also, for interactive I/O, you don't want force-output, but finish-output! 00:13:23 force-output returns immediately. 00:13:24 <[1]Mesh> parser: Yes. 00:13:41 force-output would be fine for batch processing. But if you want the buffer output before the read starts, you need finish-output. 00:14:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:21:28 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 00:22:46 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:53 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:52 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.13] has joined #lisp 00:31:15 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:19 esmith [~esmith@c-24-62-125-40.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:02 antoszka [~antoszka@cl-142.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@cl-142.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:03 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:36:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:38:25 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:30 -!- coyo [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:34 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 00:43:00 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:33 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.117] has joined #lisp 00:43:49 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:54 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:33 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:43 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:04 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:50:28 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:53 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:13 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 <[1]Mesh> so how do you edit syntax highlighting in emacs 00:54:18 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:56:38 -!- esmith [~esmith@c-24-62-125-40.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: esmith] 00:56:55 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:58:54 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:18 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:47 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has joined #lisp 01:02:01 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-165-183.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:20 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:49 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:04:47 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.27.87.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07:08 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:07:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:51 Mesh: The colors, or what it actually highlights? 01:10:15 At any rate: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html%5Fnode/emacs/Specific-Customization.html 01:10:17 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-rhjqrangfazyqmnt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:10:39 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.20] has joined #lisp 01:10:42 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:22 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13:11 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:17:45 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:19:21 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:22:17 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:49 Hello, Does anyone know how to the class hierarchy of a class? 01:26:07 WarWeasle: (apropos "class-precedence-list" nil t) 01:27:33 pkhuong_: It's under sb-mop. 01:28:12 WarWeasle: in SBCL, it is. 01:29:36 pkhuong_: I tried it with a class I've made. Is there a separate MOP defclass? 01:29:59 no, why would there be? 01:30:25 fe[nl]ix: it looks like handling isys:epipe is useless with ecl when calling send-to from a timer on a closed socket. ecl is killed by the SIGPIPE signal. 01:31:14 -!- [1]Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 01:31:34 xan_ [~xan@140.109.130.194] has joined #lisp 01:32:31 pkhuong_: I tried a (sb-mop:class-precedence-list (make-instance 'my-class)) and I get an error.. 01:33:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.130.194] has quit [Client Quit] 01:39:07 WarWeasle: instances are not classes 01:39:20 (except when they are) 01:39:28 clhs class-of 01:39:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_clas_1.htm 01:41:02 SWEET! Thank you thank you! 01:42:58 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:10 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:44:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@89-180-77-215.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:00 FYI: I'm using lisp to sort some data at work and this should help a great deal. 01:52:05 -!- rmillerx [~rmillerx@76.73.167.82] has quit [Quit: rmillerx] 01:53:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:01:18 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 02:02:33 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:04:08 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:05:55 -!- Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 02:16:13 Good morning everyone! 02:16:56 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:20 george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has joined #lisp 02:25:26 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:27:46 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 02:29:07 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:42 Good morning beach. Although I'm going to sleep... 02:30:10 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:30:58 neoesque [~neoesque@114-47-16-206.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:27 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:33:19 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:09 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:04 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:35:48 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@218.82.21.208] has joined #lisp 02:35:53 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:35:59 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:03 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-190-175.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:51 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:00 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:38:54 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 02:41:15 drewc: I was about to say "But he was making an instance of a class!", until it occurred to me that 'my-class is probably just the name of a regular old class, not the name of a class of a class :\ 02:52:05 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-166-140-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:34 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:56:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 02:56:56 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 02:58:02 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:49 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:39 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-124-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:02:11 Rudra [~Shiva@3615mylife.foreverlovingjah.fr] has joined #lisp 03:02:49 -!- Rudra [~Shiva@3615mylife.foreverlovingjah.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:11 Rudra [~Shiva@3615mylife.foreverlovingjah.fr] has joined #lisp 03:04:58 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-124-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:59 -!- rme [rme@clozure-B3A8751D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:05:00 -!- Rudra [~Shiva@3615mylife.foreverlovingjah.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:43 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:21 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-124-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:08:01 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.230] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:11:59 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:12:24 george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has joined #lisp 03:12:35 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has left #lisp 03:18:17 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@114-47-16-206.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:44 -!- srolls [~srolls@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:20:54 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-94.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:24:51 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:52 skv [~user@alpha.muted.org] has joined #lisp 03:27:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:32:16 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:39:07 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:50:25 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:04 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.20.89] has joined #lisp 03:53:38 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:54:40 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@218.82.21.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:17 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 03:56:10 Is it wrong that I'm having a lot of fun with Ruby these days 03:59:29 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 04:00:07 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:00 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:03:46 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.20.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:13 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.159.2] has joined #lisp 04:05:20 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.159.2] has quit [Client Quit] 04:09:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:26 -!- curi [~curi@h93.215.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #lisp 04:38:05 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:46:02 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-30-53.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:46:36 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:47:28 tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:18 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:02:13 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:31 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:31 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-177.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:07 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-190-175.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:19:39 Yow little sbcl hacking in the morning 05:19:47 good start of the day :-) 05:20:59 Also: Common Lisp & EVAL-WHEN is a horrendously delicate matter. 05:21:33 Does anyone know how ECL handles compile-time-too behaviour? 05:22:02 In which dynamic environment does it execute that code in? 05:23:37 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:24:17 tcr: ain't you supposed to be on vacation? 05:24:52 no vacation for slaves 05:25:21 tcr: Are you learning CL? 05:25:31 *easyE* laughs. 05:25:38 Sure for the last 6years :-) 05:25:55 tcr: 05:26:09 I guess we are all learning CL at some level. 05:26:15 "Yow little sbcl hacking in the morning" is something I'd say after the first 90 days. 05:26:35 I wasn't trying to be condecending. 05:26:51 No worries 05:26:56 s/condecending/condescending/ 05:27:04 My stomach hurts :( 05:27:14 Even after 6 years there're parts I'm not really all that familiar with 05:27:21 Guess it really takes 10 years :-) 05:27:37 To attain mastery of a skill? Hmm, not really. 05:27:48 10,000 hours of deliberate practice could be achieved in 4+ years. 05:28:04 Given about 8 hours a day. 05:28:18 There's Malcom Gladwell's claim that the right number is around 10000 hours. 05:28:18 I didn't talk about mastering 05:28:34 easy: It's fairly logical. 05:28:45 http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt1.html 05:28:46 tcr: What does it take 10 years to do then? 05:28:55 easy: I have the book. 05:29:17 "The Tipping Point". 05:29:39 Ok. I haven't read it, so you have me on that. 05:30:33 http://programmingzen.com/2010/07/04/the-pursuit-of-excellence-in-programming/ is a good read. 05:31:09 parser: Know it all. 05:31:29 Maybe that's what mastering means :-) not to me anyway 05:31:38 Gladwell seems to be a fine writer from what I've read in the _New Yorker_, but something about his persona in interviews kind of turns me off. Not a great reason not to have read more of him, just one of those idiosyncratic biases I seem to be acculumlating in old age. 05:32:19 How old are you? 05:32:52 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:03 You never ask a Lisp programmer her age! How impolite! 05:33:07 41. 05:33:19 Ah. 05:36:30 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:39 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html is the most insane Lisp implementation proposal I've ever seen. 05:37:52 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:54 Isn't that what Chicken Scheme does? 05:38:07 joshe: Yes. 05:38:25 Wow. 05:38:39 It's amazing that it works. 05:40:25 kroger [~user@189.115.157.110] has joined #lisp 05:40:35 -!- kroger [~user@189.115.157.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:44 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:20 easyE: In fact, I'm doing less work than I'm supposed to. Nature is just too awesome around here; running with the dog for an hour, then a few lapses swimming in the coast, then sauna. :-) 05:43:15 Anyway feeling good to hack a little bit on sbcl & slime after long time 05:43:23 I've never been to Scandinavia as an adult, but the Summer is reputed as absolutely beautiful. 05:43:35 What were you using? ECL? 05:43:36 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:43:51 Er, no, Something commercial I bet. 05:44:00 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:14 We're using sbcl 05:44:26 Ah, but not hacking it. 05:45:05 If need arises :-) 05:45:19 right! 05:46:16 In this case I'm merely fixing a minor bug resulting in no error location for the unmatched parenthesis reader error in slime 05:46:22 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:46:47 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:49 Every time I try to use ABCL, I seem to quickly find something "broken" that needs to be fixed. Sometimes it would be nice just to use it as "black box" without the urge to fix. 05:47:27 I feel the same way about Emacs. 05:47:41 Half the time, I find myself hacking on the program itself instead of doing real work. 05:47:56 Just Don't Do It 05:51:42 quotemstr_: That's not emacs' fault. 05:52:26 Which leads to a question which #lisp might be able to answer quickly: Does CL require that (DIRECTORY #p"/a/**/b/c/**/d/e/foo") actually match both :WILD-INFERIORS as "zero or more occurances"? 05:52:49 So "/a/b/c/d/e/foo" would be matched? 05:53:23 3 05:54:01 rtoym: around? 05:54:10 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-166-140-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:29 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 06:05:15 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-21-69.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-14-245.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:11:55 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[~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17:27 slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A396.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:34 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:19:58 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A30F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:21:54 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:52 pjb: you need to disable that signal 12:28:02 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:22 That signal should almost always be disabled. :) 12:32:42 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:01 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:13 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:40 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-177-127.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has 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13:22:04 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 13:25:07 jdz [~jdz@host141-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:38:55 'morning 13:38:59 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:39 addled [~muddyferr@77.208.90.200] has joined #lisp 13:44:48 hi Fade 13:46:02 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:29 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:05 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:36 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:01:04 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:22 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-194-58.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:39 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:06:02 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:06:16 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:44 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-139.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:00 OK, so I know have an implementation of the Burger&Dybvig algorithm that doesn't require knowing the floating-point representation, other than that it uses IEEE 754-style normalization. 14:13:39 What does the Burger&Dybvig algorithm do? 14:13:57 LiamH: Fast and accurate printing of floating-point numbers. 14:14:16 *LiamH* likes fast and accurate anything 14:14:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:38 On SBCL, I compared the performance of (princ-to-string ) and (princ-to-string "") in order to get an idea of how much time was spent in the conversion of the float to digits, and looks like it takes around 8us/digit on my computer, whereas my implementation is significantly faster. I wonder why. I suspect I have omitted something. 14:15:59 Accurate meaning correct rounding? 14:16:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@59-124-113-6.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:16:45 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:27 LiamH: Especially, it means that the printed representation, when read back by an accurate readin routine, will create the same float as the one printed. 14:17:52 ahhh, nice 14:17:59 LiamH: In addition, the algorithm generates the shortest printed representation with that property. 14:18:10 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18:13 LiamH: It's a nice little paper. 14:18:30 beach: is your implementation portable, or SBCL-only? 14:18:53 LiamH: I spent a lot of time trying to make it entirely portable. 14:19:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19:32 LiamH: It's part of the SICL project, so I am trying very hard for it to rely only on a compliant implementation of Common Lisp. 14:19:35 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:54 beach: SICL? 14:21:28 LiamH: A crazy project, the purpose of which is to provide building blocks for people who want to implement Common Lisp, and to make those building blocks as portable as possible without sacrificing performance. 14:22:30 beach: Ah, I was just going to mention that I thought there was some such project going on. Nice contribution. 14:22:43 sacla was approximately along those lines 14:22:46 Thanks. 14:22:54 Xach: Minus the performance part. 14:23:28 beach: wouldn't performance normally be a secondary goal? 14:23:39 madnificent: Absolutely not for SICL. 14:24:37 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:49 how much of CL has been implemented in SICL? 14:24:51 LiamH: I currently have a module with all the functions in the conses dictionary (except car and cdr), an implementation of FORMAT that does runtime compilation (but that has no floating-point printers yest), part of the sequences dictionary, a partial reader. 14:25:11 madnificent: That's for you too! 14:25:19 so it seems :) 14:25:55 madnificent: I also want to provide excellent docstrings, internationalization, type-declarations for all CL functions, etc. 14:25:59 beach: nice; has any of it been folded into an implementation yet? 14:26:08 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:26:13 _3b is using some of it I think. 14:27:00 LiamH: It hasn't been around long enough to justify any releases and to attract CL implementers (of which there are relatively few). 14:27:23 in arithmetic.lisp, shouldn't typecase be etypecase ? 14:27:37 Fare: Possibly. 14:28:01 Fare: I'll look into it. Thanks. 14:28:10 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:48 madnificent: Some of my code is already significantly faster than that of SBCL for important special cases. 14:28:49 Joreji [~thomas@71-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:28:55 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:04 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:29:10 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:23 konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 14:30:25 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-139.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:31:42 beach: I tend to value complete somewhat more than faster atm, but the SACLA project page is certainly something I browse by every half year or so 14:31:58 beach: which cases are those? 14:32:34 p_l: Some of the sequence functions when eql or eq is used as :test 14:32:42 beach: do you post the status of the project somewhere else than on the nifty.com page? 14:33:11 madnificent: No, I think it premature. 14:33:51 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:34:25 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-67.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:19 madnificent: My plan is to realease individual modules, as opposed to the entire project. 14:37:16 beach: what about say IO based on iolib? 14:37:37 beach: which is great... however... I would like to know the status of the modules of the project... see how the code evolves etc 14:37:48 beach: something like a git repository that I can check out now and then 14:37:48 Fare: Doesn't iolib use FFI? 14:37:51 beach: what about some namespace management thingie that will allow SICL to run on top of CL through package renaming? 14:37:58 it does, is that bad? 14:38:07 Fare: It's not very portable. 14:38:21 portable to everything but windows, these days. 14:38:32 (haha) 14:38:32 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 madnificent: There is such a thing, hold on... 14:38:50 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:59 anything but an FFI won't be very runnable 14:39:04 (except maybe on genera) 14:39:05 beach: I/O is kinda by definition unportable (because at some point you need to implement the primitives,right?) 14:39:43 p_l: I was thinking of using flexistreams, which would only require a binary byte-stream to work. 14:39:51 now if someone could convince jcma to release genera as open source... 14:40:12 Fare: where's chuck norris when you need him? 14:40:29 though an "intelligent" I/O engine would be an interesting thing... 14:41:31 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has joined #lisp 14:41:49 madnificent, when chuck norris opens the source of your project, bits of code splatter all over the place. 14:42:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:42:08 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 14:42:36 madnificent: git clone http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/SICL/SICL.git 14:42:57 Joreji [~thomas@71-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:43:54 at some point, SICL will have to include some kind of portability module: 14:44:13 Fare: Why do you think that iolib requires FFI? For performance reasons? 14:44:22 Fare: last activity on Genera source that I have seen was a port to OSX 14:44:25 "this implements such functionality on Unix/Windows/JVM/CLR/foo" 14:44:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 beach: thanks! 14:44:38 beach, for raw I/O 14:44:44 Fare: not a good idea then 14:45:30 iolib adapts from available syscalls to lisp semantics. It also gives access to functionality not available using CLHS, such as an event loop, etc. 14:46:11 there's lots of stuff that is available for I/O that isn't covered by CLHS 14:46:35 AIO, vector I/O, MMIO etc. 14:47:01 X-02 [~x_02@p2147-ipbf203kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:47:36 Fare: I'll leave that to the implementer of the CL system, and I'll concentrate on everything that can be written in CL portably and with good performance. 14:48:22 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-67.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:49:17 Fare: What kind of portability module? 14:49:23 hmmm... SICL could serve well as "standard" implementation to be used for any new portable extensions (CDR documents?) 14:50:10 p_l: Interesting thought. 14:51:45 p_l: But really, I prefer to think of it not as a CL system, but as a project for providing portable high-performance building blocks for other systems, including new ones. 14:52:14 So, what set of primitives are you using? 14:52:18 it could really speed up both the creation of new lisps and the integration of lisp in other languages 14:52:56 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-170.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:08 Only if there's a well defined primitive set that it is defined in terms of. 14:53:10 Zhivago: Depends on the module. For the conses module, I use only car, cdr and loop. 14:53:22 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:37 beach: is there documentation available of the primitives that need to be provided by the underlying implementation? 14:53:58 beach: that's why I suggested that. If you have public domain blocks implementing 98% of the proposed new extension (minus the unportable bits), possibility of getting the extension in more than one implementation rises. 14:54:35 madnificent: That will be provided before the release of each module. I haven't done it a priori because I am not smart enough to think it through without implementing it. 14:54:46 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:10 p_l: Sure. 14:55:34 beach: what's a use case? 14:55:55 Fare: For what? 14:57:37 p_l: it could also give you a weak portability guarantee. If it works in the constructs of SICL, then it should run on mostly all implementations. That makes it easier to test new code. 14:57:44 Fare: For SICL? Someone who wants to experiment with a new Lisp implementation. That someone won't have to write mapcar, nsubst-if-not ans whatnot. 14:58:37 Fare: I am also secretly hoping that existing implementation will adopt some modules once they discover that they are better (assuming they will be, of course). 14:58:56 beach: maybe you could start by documenting what remains for said implementer to implement 14:59:23 also, you may offer the choice of implementing tagbody on top of something or the other way around 14:59:52 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A396.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:07 or somehow have an automatic dependency discoverer: "this module implements this things in terms of those things" 15:00:19 Fare: I don't think I want to start with that. Like I said, I am not smart enough to do that a priori. Now that the conses module is done, I can document that, but I can't tell what is going to be required for (say) the packages module. 15:00:33 then a NP-complete search might find a solution (or not) to "implement all the primitives in terms of those I provide" 15:01:06 beach: implementations might also contribute modules. There's nothing wrong with that 15:01:11 Well, if each module specifies its primitive requirements, that should be enough. 15:01:55 Fare: I can tell you that for the reader, the implementation must provide #= and ##, because I don't know how to implement them portably. LOOP is going to be considered primitive, and I will provide an implementation of it. 15:02:18 the implementation can override specific implementations of a module by its own faster implementation-dependent constructs if needed 15:02:43 beach: you could provide an extensible reader infrastructure that allows to hook into #= and ` 15:02:44 madnificent: Contribute modules to SICL? Sure, provided that they are portable and meet the other requirements. 15:03:19 what's especially hard about #=, apart from opening implementation-specific structures? 15:03:20 beach: in the worst case, they will not be finished modules yet... but most of the code could be portable, thus giving you a good base to start from. 15:03:30 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:40 Fare: That infrastructure already exists in the form of reader macros. 15:05:12 Fare: You might have to scan the slots of an arbitrary structure and update its contents. The MOP will allow it, but not just CL. 15:05:43 Fare: "opening implementation-specific structure" sounds like "non portable" to me. 15:05:55 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:07:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@host141-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:10 lnostdal-android [~androirc@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:46 -!- addled [~muddyferr@77.208.90.200] has quit [Quit: addled] 15:10:42 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:30 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:20:05 Soulman1 [~knute@44.84-49-150.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:21:20 -!- _danb_` [~user@203-158-56-227.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:58 So here is a challenge for people who want something to do: Use arbitrary-precision floating-point arithmetic to design an algorithm similar to that of Burger and Dybvig, but which would be much faster because of the use of floating point, as opposed to using bignum arithmetic. 15:23:42 The arithmetic is describe here http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.55.3546 15:23:48 clisp has arbitrary precision FP, did you look at it? 15:24:10 stassats`: No I didn't. How does it work? 15:24:11 I think clisp uses the GNU library gmp 15:24:38 Oh, so it's not based on using the floating-point unit then? 15:24:59 Because that's quite tricky to do in a general way. 15:25:47 beach: GMP might use FPU internally 15:26:07 -!- Borbus_ is now known as Borbus 15:26:16 p_l: I shall have to read up on that. 15:27:54 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-235-159.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:12 The other possibility I considered was to write a sloppy FP alternative to Burger & Dybvig that works almost all the time, and fall back on a slower, but totally accurate one if the sloppy one doesn't give the right answer. However, I haven't figured out a cheap test to verify whether the sloppy algorithm gave the right answer. I do have an implementation of such an algorithm though. 15:30:03 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:30:28 Or just punt and make that a primitive. 15:30:28 heh, Series has a (non-lispy?) configuration mechanism. you have to call (series::install :pkg package-to-use-series :macro *yes-i-want-reader-macros*) to use it 15:30:50 can't think of any other library that does that; but series is a language extension, so it needs to be quirky 15:30:54 Which is probably the right thing to do since float representations are pretty architecture dependent. 15:31:18 Zhivago: I considered providing it for people who want a 10x performance improvement on printing FP numbers, but who don't care if they are totally accurate. 15:31:44 fusss: Series is also *old* 15:32:01 quirky stuff happened in the past more often, it seems :D 15:32:02 It is actually easy and cheap to check whether a sequence of digits is accurate, but it is harder to check whether they are the shortest possible representation. 15:32:22 p_l: it's a privilege to brush against such fine piece of code; vintage or otherwise 15:33:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:33:29 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 15:37:40 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:44 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:30 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 15:39:29 -!- navigator [~navigator@p548979A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-022.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:10 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host67-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:27 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 15:51:42 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has 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joined #lisp 16:39:58 qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.126.211] has joined #lisp 16:41:35 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host67-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:41:59 Bronsa [~bronsa@host67-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:42:09 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@200-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:49 lemoinem [~swoog@38-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:58 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:05 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:46:24 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:46:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:46:48 lispm [~lispm@tmo-098-108.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:28 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:50:25 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 16:51:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:46 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-235-159.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 16:55:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host67-177-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:03:33 I'm pretty sure clisp does NOT use gmp. 17:03:46 navigator [~navigator@p548979A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:18 -!- lispm [~lispm@tmo-098-108.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:07:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-8-84.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-59-53.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:13 -!- Salamander_ 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Anywhere.] 17:16:56 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-82-93.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:25 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-59-53.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:20 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.8] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:22:54 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-166-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:41 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-82-93.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:26:34 -!- fatblued` [~user@pool-71-104-155-233.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:00 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-14-233.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:10 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-166-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:10 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-14-233.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:40 carlocci [~nes@93.37.214.54] has joined #lisp 17:41:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:32 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:48:37 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.148] has joined #lisp 17:48:59 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:49:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.148] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:50:03 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.148] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.148] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:52:21 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-4-151.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:55 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:25 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:17 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 18:09:38 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-8-84.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-15-22.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:16:37 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:07 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:21:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:00 -!- DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-24-166-73-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:31 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:05 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:36 ? 18:27:43 \? 18:28:26 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:31:13 -!- Xiaobo [~Xiaobo@61.48.211.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:45 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:32:56 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-179-110.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:21 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-82.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 18:37:55 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 18:38:11 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-4-151.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:50 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 18:40:44 DocOnDev [~doc@cpe-24-166-73-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 Kenjin [~josesanto@89.180.77.215] has joined #lisp 18:41:51 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:28 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 18:44:41 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.175.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:00 clisp uses its own c++ set of classes for arithmetics, which it republishes as free software under the GPLvn 18:46:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 xan_ [~xan@59-124-113-6.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:55 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.126.211] has left #lisp 18:53:12 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-176-122.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:10 -!- navigator [~navigator@p548979A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 19:00:39 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440781.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 19:03:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:10 -!- benny [~user@i577A85E6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:37 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 19:11:55 qbomb [~quent@65.183.126.211] has joined #lisp 19:14:04 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:35 Tordek_ [~tordek@2001:470:dc50:b0::2] has joined #lisp 19:15:44 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A396.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:05 cinch [~cinch@85-127-111-240.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:19:10 -!- cinch [~cinch@85-127-111-240.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Changing host] 19:19:10 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 19:22:08 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-190-38.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:36 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:57 Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:37 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:41 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 urandom_ [~user@p548A788A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:55 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:46:38 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-82.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:48:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:50:54 rtoym: Not that it is that important, but I designed a totally portable function to determine the predecessor of a float. 19:51:03 [and good evening everyone] 19:51:10 -!- jdz [~jdz@host176-105-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:35 what if the float is too big? 19:54:52 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:57 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-173.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:13 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-16-28.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:53 Too big for what? 20:02:03 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-8-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:03:50 mm2718 [~michael@meadows.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:07:51 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-170.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:11:36 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-180.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:10 What if it's most-negative-long-float ? 20:12:59 Fare: do you have any comment on my patch for lp 611361? 20:16:10 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:26 oh sorry. We "fixed" our code to work around the bug 20:16:48 I admit I'm unable to comment about the internals themselves. 20:16:59 on a simple example, it seems to work, though. 20:17:32 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-211-83.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-116-77.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:18:51 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-254.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:22:17 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:24 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:33 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-207-156.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:52 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:01 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 20:25:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:39 jdz [~jdz@host176-105-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:28:58 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-180.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:33:19 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.139.243.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-116-77.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:39 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@host176-105-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:39 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/2010071400]] 20:37:46 hmm... is there a way to get SBCL to print numbers with british spelling (when using format "~R")? 20:39:39 no. 20:40:12 I wish. :( 20:40:28 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:40:51 damn 20:41:10 *p_l* is playing with project euler 20:41:38 Any SBCL hackers around? I'm curious if any of you have read Brooks and Gabriel's Critque of Common Lisp recently. 20:42:18 where is that critique? 20:42:29 Actually, any implementation hackers, not just SBCL. 20:42:58 http://www.google.com/search?q=critique+of+common+lisp, first hit. 20:43:06 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.95.399&rep=rep1&type=pdf 20:44:08 -!- mm2718 [~michael@meadows.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:29 hey hey, it's the gigamonkey 20:45:33 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:43 p_l: what's an example of British spelling of numbers? 20:46:51 You talking about British million vs US million? 20:47:14 You know even we USAians don't spell 4, "for", right. ;-) 20:47:25 Yo, Xach. 20:48:18 phore? 20:48:47 I guess he means "one hundred _and_ thirty" etc, but I could be wrong. 20:48:50 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-254.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:14 Or whatever ands you Americans are too lazy for. :) 20:49:22 gigamonkey: there's also *and* between hundreds and tens etc. 20:50:21 as for "million"... I got enough issues with the fact that polish has an extra term between billion and million :> 20:50:22 one of the implementations is suitable for project euler, if you into cheating 20:56:23 p_l: http://paste.lisp.org/display/113531 20:56:49 Though I'm not sure it wouldn't be easier just to implement the number to words thing yourself. 20:57:16 nice 20:57:45 gigamonkey: that was probably the idea of the problem, however I'm of the school that good programmers cheat :D 20:58:03 4 == four but why oh why does 40 == forty ?? 20:58:12 ahh. english. 20:58:16 such a treat. 20:58:43 Fade: not to mention the confusion with first few numbers being in base 12! 20:58:51 hah 20:59:31 (though whoever designed inch/foot etc. should be hanged) 20:59:41 gigamonkey: how old is this critique? 20:59:59 let us not get involved in the lunacy of imerial measures, again. 21:00:06 25 years 21:00:17 gigamonkey: it sounds very foreign 21:00:25 ah, (c) 1984 ACM 21:00:37 worrying about portability of performance and such 21:01:07 judging by a preamble this may be the source of the 'lisp is slow' thing 21:01:37 lisp is slow for 50 years, not 25 21:01:44 and that generic sequences unite lists and vector but they have different performance characteristics ... 21:02:32 "there are simply not enough good Lisp hackers around" 21:02:38 that bit is still true 21:02:52 given the performance of many other "popular" languages... Lisp definitely isn't slow. Not for this world. But yeah, we don't have enough Lispers :/ 21:02:54 that's true of any language. 21:03:12 Krystof: so what I'm interested in is that the critique was largely about the problems for implementors on "stock hardware". So how bad is it, really? 21:03:43 mildly bad. Some things are still slow 25 years later (e.g. non-simple arrays) 21:04:05 for someone used to hardware support for lisp it must be terrible 21:04:20 or maybe they're just ludicrously slow compared to the simple-array case which goes well with stock hardware 21:04:40 Krystof: because nobody cares to make them fast? 21:05:05 "Cited by 10" meh, can't be a very important paper 21:05:19 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440781.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:05:29 stassats`: I'm not sure how to make them much faster given the definition of the language 21:05:35 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:05:50 maybe it's possible, but I'm not a good enough Lisp hacker 21:05:53 Krystof: I think non-simple arrays are just slow compared to simple ones... the cpus are rather optimized for the simple case. 21:06:18 *gigamonkey* is ammused to see that R6RS is a 300+ page book now. 21:07:16 gigamonkey: a big chunk of schemers apparently turned their back on R6RS and cherry-picked it for R5+RS or something like that 21:07:39 the politics in the scheme world are rather intense. 21:08:05 Fade: I heard it's because R6 did some big and incompatible change 21:08:27 i unsub'd from all the scheme related lists I was following. 21:09:11 CL is good enough for rock and roll. at this point in my career i find it's relative stasis sort of comforting. 21:10:02 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:44 gigamonkey: Wasn't it about 50 pages? 21:12:48 Originally ... 21:13:24 the joke was that the original scheme spec was shorter than the index to the CL standard. ;) 21:13:26 R^-1RS was 0 pages. 21:14:13 hypnosis [~hypnosis@unaffiliated/hypnosis] has joined #lisp 21:14:21 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:14:22 I have a question about PCL, if anyone is willing to answer. 21:14:36 I'm on the 3rd chapter, and it's a very good book, so far. I'm glad to have found it 21:14:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:48 But, I believe that this book isn't really for newbies to programming, per-se. 21:15:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:11 well, that's an interesting critique. 21:15:15 But, more of someone that has experience with Lisp 21:15:36 not too many people w/out any programming experience find common lisp on the first try. 21:15:48 Well, I have a bit of C experience, but I'm not very good. 21:16:30 The matter is, there's a lot of research I have to go into, in order to understand some of the things spelt out, but I don't know a reference that describes certain idioms in layman terms, like, say, man 3 name, for C, et al. 21:16:57 I just don't want to suck, so I want to work at it, but without the right tools, I find that I'm in a bit of a swamp. 21:17:03 the hyperspec is canonical. 21:17:04 hypnosis, use the clhs or l1sp.org 21:17:05 gigamonkey: Hello there :> 21:17:11 l1sp.org hmm. 21:18:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:18:30 I guess I asked an intelligent question! 21:19:41 Fare: Thanks very much. 21:19:59 Back to PCL then, I guess!@# 21:20:19 -!- hypnosis [~hypnosis@unaffiliated/hypnosis] has quit [Quit: I have a headache, but talking about it won't make it better ...] 21:20:30 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:36 I am using drakma to retrieve a CSV file encoded in ISO-8859 but drakma, instead of returning a string, returns what I think is a vector of octets. What would I say to drakma so it acts like it is in fact a string? I am calling drakma as (drakma:http-request "http://www.example.com/retrievecsv?field=1"). 21:21:11 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 it seems people try to understand what's "going on" in chapter 3 when, really, it's just a tour 21:21:50 hypnosis: I think Seibel also gives fair warning that PCL isn't for someone completely new to programming... you might try supplementing it with the "gentle" book if you need a little more explanation 21:21:52 ..IIRC, "this is just a tour; don't worry if you do not understand it all" or something like it is actually written at the start of ch. 3 .. i think 21:24:06 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 21:24:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-208-56-141-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:47 didi: that function returns a stream. 21:24:54 have you read the documentation? 21:25:14 Fade: Reading it right now. 21:26:16 *Fade* heads off 21:29:00 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:17 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-15844.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:07 -!- qbomb [~quent@65.183.126.211] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-82.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:36:36 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:32 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 21:39:59 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:04 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:47 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:54 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:16 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:43 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:47:20 lnostdal: "In this chapter, I'll cover just enough Lisp as we go along for you to understand how the code works. But I'll gloss over quite a few details. For now you needn't sweat the small stuff--the next several chapters will cover all the Common Lisp constructs used here, and more, in a much more systematic way." 21:47:42 lnostdal: Some people care about the details. 21:48:02 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A788A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:19 uh, i'm not saying they shouldn't, parser 21:53:20 :) 21:53:39 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:59 lnostdal: I know. 21:54:03 ok 21:54:09 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:54:12 Don't be afraid. 21:57:17 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-176-122.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:36 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:53 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:03:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:16 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:09:15 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:14 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:12:05 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-146-45.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:13:14 i'm not afraid; i just care about the details 22:13:24 ..even if one of them is not caring about the details right now 22:13:25 :) 22:14:09 also -- my head is spinning; more beer! :) 22:15:04 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 22:19:48 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23:43 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 urandom_ [~user@p548A788A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:50 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:30:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:31:56 lnostdal: more beer! 22:32:18 -!- drewc is now known as minion 22:32:21 MORE BEER 22:32:25 -!- minion is now known as drewc 22:32:44 i wonder how long i could get away with impersonating minion :D 22:33:01 drewc: quite long with few helper scripts 22:33:22 people sometime seems to mistake him(it?) for a human already :) 22:41:12 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A788A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:19 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:06 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@59-124-113-6.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:19 ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:00:23 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-104-213.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:24 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:02:32 Mesh [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 23:02:57 Heyo. Been fiddling around with... configuring syntax hilighting colors in emacs. 23:04:14 I was wondering if I could have emacs display parentheses in a different color from the rest of the text, and uh... if i could do something where it highlighted previously defun'd or built-in functions. 23:05:19 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:27 Mesh: parenface.el can set a different color for parentheses, I use it here to put them in a dark red 23:06:46 for more details, ---> #emacs 23:09:11 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:53 Mesh: highligthing them in different colors could be nice btw :) 23:10:27 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@cpe-24-161-6-10.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:25 Yes. 23:12:17 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:12:28 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-50-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:47 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A396.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:58 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:17:06 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:21:26 I am trying to read a stream until it ends and return a single string with the content. So far I was able to collect each line and return a list with them (http://paste.lisp.org/display/113533). Could someone point me to the right direction? 23:23:18 Mesh: something like how paste.lisp.org shows them would be an extension I'd install 23:26:01 I found parenface.el on some dude's webpage. How would I go about actually... adding that to emacs..? 23:26:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:28:41 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:28:52 xan_ [~xan@60-250-133-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:35 didi: try read-sequence. 23:37:25 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-15844.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:39:46 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:50 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:57 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:30 hypnosis: hello 23:45:54 Whoops. He quit. Nevermind. 23:46:18 jmbr [~jmbr@217.168.12.230] has joined #lisp 23:46:31 quoth the raven, four oh four 23:49:11 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:23 ldunn [~user@d110-32-133-1.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:54:10 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:27 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-104-213.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:56:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@60-250-133-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:14 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 23:59:48 Snamich [~Snamich@75.128.11.42] has joined #lisp