00:00:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:01:18 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D058.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:07:10 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:34 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.159.180] has joined #lisp 00:14:54 exu0 [~exu@dslb-188-099-204-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 is there a binary file format write s-expressions? 00:15:59 -!- rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:45 rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 00:16:49 _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.113] has joined #lisp 00:18:04 I am sorry I typed that in a hurry ... is there a binary file format to store s-expressions? I intend to use s-expressions to store large simulation data .. 00:19:45 cl-store has a binary backend 00:20:27 oh ic .. is there a clojure equivalent yet? 00:20:46 dunno, not a clojure user 00:21:09 thanks dunno .. that gives me a starting point 00:21:22 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 00:22:37 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 -!- lispm [~joswig@d221188.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:19 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:26:45 fbrunel [~fbrunel@modemcable180.50-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:30:03 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 00:31:43 toni [~toni@87-194-44-133.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:35:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:27 -!- fbrunel [~fbrunel@modemcable180.50-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:37:36 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-32-234.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:39:39 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:39:49 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 00:40:30 gigamonkey: Is the PDF version of your book available for download anywhere? 00:40:35 Which book? 00:40:39 PCL? 00:40:41 gigamonkey: Sorry, PCL. 00:40:55 I'm not sure. It was on Apress's site but I've heard the link went dead. 00:41:07 gigamonkey: It was indeed. 00:41:15 I was never crazy about that PDF so I haven't bothered tracking down what happened to it. 00:41:22 Plus I hate dealing with Apress. 00:41:35 You could email them and if you find out what happened, please let me know. 00:41:36 gigamonkey: Would you mind if I collected each chapter into a PDF and printed them out at Kinkos? 00:41:46 gigamonkey: I can't seem to find your book on the shelf anywhere. 00:42:10 Weird. Are you in the US? 00:42:14 gigamonkey: Yea. 00:42:28 gigamonkey: I have looked in 2 Barnes and Nobles and 3 Borders. Nothing. 00:42:36 Certainly any regular bookstore can order it for you, if you don't, for whatever reason, want to use Amazon. 00:43:26 gigamonkey: Well if you prefer that I purchase your book I have no issue with that. But taking a PDF to Kinkos is faster than shipping. 00:43:59 gigamonkey: Figured it would be best to ask your permission anyhow. 00:44:38 Well, I'd rather you buy it. But it's only really worth a buck or so. And I can't *really* condone the Kinko's route though obviously it's a possibility I had to consider when I left it up on the web. 00:44:50 *rtoym* has seen PCL in Barnes and Nobles recently. 00:45:04 *gigamonkey* hopes rtoym "fronted" it. 00:45:23 "fronted" it? 00:46:25 gigamonkey: I'll just grab it from Amazon. Thanks for your time. 00:46:27 Whatever that means, I didn't do anything. :-( I already have my copy. :-) 00:46:27 rtoym: turned it so the cover is out, rather than the spine. 00:46:42 SegFaultAX: if you do that, go through www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 00:47:15 I'll get more from Amazon than from Apress. 00:47:18 Hraban [~Hraban@94-226-250-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 00:47:21 gigamonkey: Store credit card information for safe keeping? In case I lose it I mean. ;) 00:47:49 gigamonkey: I'll get it from the link on your site, thank you again. 00:48:03 Thank you! 00:48:52 gigamonkey: To be clear, I have already read it cover to cover, and some chapters a few times. But something just tells me I need to own it. I probably need another programming book like I need a bullet in the head. 00:49:03 At this rate, I think it's just a compulsion. :) 00:49:49 In any case, back to lisping for me. 00:50:11 i lost the link to the article which basically said that lisp is the language all languages approximate as they gain more abilities :> but i'm wondering if anyone can tell me things you can do in other languages you can't do in Lisp? (or at least, not without a lot of work) 00:50:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:51:44 Hraban: anything that involves static types. 00:52:18 you mean immutable values? 00:52:30 *Hraban* wikis it 00:52:39 Are there smaller implementations of lisp that are easily embeddable? 00:52:45 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Booting WinDoesnt7 to waste my life away simulating armed conflict. =p] 00:52:50 SegFaultAX: embeddable common lisp? 00:53:00 pkhuong_: Are you asking or telling me? 00:53:08 it's a rhetorical question. 00:53:11 ah, typechecking 00:53:16 minion: ECL 00:53:17 ECL: Embeddable Common Lisp, a member of the KCL Family, is a Common Lisp implementation initially developed by Giuseppe Attardi and currently maintained by Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll. http://www.cliki.net/ECL 00:53:45 Oh, well... Thank you. :) 00:53:52 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 00:56:13 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 00:58:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:32 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:34 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:04:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:05:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:35 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:14:09 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:28 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:29 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:16:46 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:56 Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.118] has joined #lisp 01:17:59 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:56 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3E95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:26 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:29:26 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 01:30:30 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:58 iirc, PAIP talks about 'proper' style for predicates. Is there anything in CLHS that describes this? (kinda like how there's a comment style chapter) 01:33:15 foop foo-bar-p 01:34:16 I don't recall a section like that in the hyperspec. 01:34:54 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:55 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:41:15 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 01:41:18 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:42:43 peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:43:26 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:44:03 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:50:02 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:57 Zhivago: I have a copy of PAIP. I was just wondering if it's something they happened to mention in the spec. Thanks. 02:00:04 was PAIP before or after CLHS 02:00:15 PAIP was published 1992 02:00:53 before it was finalized. 02:03:26 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.159.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:59 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:18 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:59 sykopomp: the convention for naming predicates is documented in CLtL2 02:07:46 timor [~timor@port-92-195-100-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:08:59 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-40-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:48 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:03 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:11:37 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:53 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:15:09 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:41 hmmm 02:18:31 I wish code-char had actually specified what would happen if a non-supported character code is provided :( 02:18:55 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:22 surely it says nil should be returned 02:20:51 SBCL doesn't do this actually 02:21:35 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:21:36 I was sending a very silly code though 02:22:43 Guthur: no, it doesn't specify any exceptional situations. 02:22:49 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:02 ya but -> "If no such character exists and one cannot be created, nil is returned. " 02:23:04 oh nevermind. It _does_ sort of specify something. 02:23:15 Yup. So does this mean SBCL is non-compliant? 02:23:26 *sykopomp* checks the definition for character code. 02:23:27 Would be by my reading 02:23:37 ahh 02:23:39 non-compliant that it 02:23:41 it/is 02:23:44 nono, I think it's fine. 02:23:55 oh ok 02:23:58 how so? 02:24:16 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/26_glo_c.htm#character_code 02:24:31 "2. a non-negative integer less than the value of char-code-limit that is suitable for use as a character code." 02:24:58 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:23 ah yes indeed 02:25:45 both SBCL and CCL seem to be doing the right thing here. 02:26:25 and I guess so is CLISP, since you're allowed to just return nil if 'no such character exists and one cannot be created' 02:26:45 hehe does it just return nil then 02:26:49 no Type-Error 02:27:05 right 02:27:14 hehe, keeps you on your toes 02:27:25 I guess both are correct answers :\ 02:27:34 *sykopomp* uses IGNORE-ERRORS 02:35:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:18 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.5] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:40:15 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:51 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:44:19 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-14-72.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:44:43 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:44 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:08 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:27 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 02:47:08 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:55 abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:20 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:51:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:09 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:56 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:17 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 03:01:51 exu_ [~exu@188.105.132.179] has joined #lisp 03:03:25 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 03:03:46 -!- exu0 [~exu@dslb-188-099-204-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:05:41 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:14:08 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:24:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:25:15 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:26:21 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rytzfhgzszuontvr] has quit [Quit: brb] 03:26:27 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-dqsgzfbfalaidbnj] has joined #lisp 03:27:20 -!- super__ is now known as super_ 03:28:14 -!- super_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:23 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:28:32 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:29:29 -!- exu_ [~exu@188.105.132.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:31:24 fiogo [~gnilson@ip70-189-73-6.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:58 -!- fiogo [~gnilson@ip70-189-73-6.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:49:11 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:51:31 balooga [~00u4440@76.194.238.233] has joined #lisp 03:51:47 good morning 03:52:21 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:53:02 TomJ- [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 03:57:17 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:02:38 morning. 04:04:19 Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.112] has joined #lisp 04:04:48 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:26 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:29 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-149-113.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:15:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-149-113.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:10 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 04:16:25 Good morning everyone! 04:16:28 TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 04:16:42 -!- TomJ- [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:06 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-228.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:16 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-110.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:31 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@pool4-159.teleclipse.net] has left #lisp 04:21:28 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:43 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:24:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:01 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 04:30:04 good morning ! 04:32:46 -!- TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:57 TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 04:33:25 Morning, beach, notsonerdysunny. 04:33:39 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:11 xinming [~hyy@115.223.128.203] has joined #lisp 04:35:10 I was looking around for sexp like serialization this morning and found 04:35:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_S-expressions 04:35:16 http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/sexp.html 04:36:09 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-laxdivdwahrxoepw] has joined #lisp 04:36:45 I am new to this .. does anybody have any input on using this to store large simulation related data in files... 04:37:14 notsonerdysunny: well, are you worried about parsing speed or disk usage? 04:37:24 If the latter, you could probably just compress your files. 04:37:35 -!- TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:51 If the former, have you profiled to show that reading in files of normal sexps is actually too expensive? 04:37:55 TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 04:39:44 well this is just experimental stuff I am thinking about .. I would have simulation data of the order of 100s of megabytes if not more .. so simple ascii based reading would definitely slow ( from my c++ experience) 04:40:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:40:49 Are you talking 100s of megs of in-memory data that you need to periodically write out to disk and read back in? 04:41:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:41:12 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:17 -!- symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:32 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:43 well the data is the solution which would have to be stored .. and may be used later to visualize it and things like that .. 04:44:31 So, there's no "standard" way that Lispers use to dump out huge in-memory sexps to disk. 04:45:02 There are a bunch of obvious ways one could do it that will each have various benefits in terms of speed to write, speed to read, ability to do random access, etc. 04:45:41 But probably the "Lispy" thing to do would be to just dump sexps out to disk until it becomes a problem and then fix whatever the problem actually is. 04:48:26 hmm... 04:57:52 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:10 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 05:01:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jdjvdbaftfjwkvbl] has joined #lisp 05:01:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:04:37 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 05:10:00 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:10:38 R3curs1v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:08 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:12:13 -!- Recur51v3 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has joined #lisp 06:35:59 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-48-171-245.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:35:59 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 06:36:34 good morning 06:36:39 hello mvilleneuve 06:36:47 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:39:33 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:42:08 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:13 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.50.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:45 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:48:48 Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 06:48:59 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:34 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has left #lisp 06:53:03 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping 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I can't find any examples where it's not the same behaviour with and without copy-list 08:36:04 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:10 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 08:36:27 Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:37:12 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:37:43 because it can be the same list as the last argument of APPLY 08:37:53 acieroid: I am not sure exactly what you are talking about, but the &rest argument may share structure with the last argument to apply. 08:37:59 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932e988.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:38:08 ok 08:38:15 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:38:15 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:38:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40:10 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:40:12 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:44:01 TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has joined #lisp 08:46:01 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-150.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:44 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:48:24 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:50 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 08:55:09 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:55:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:59:57 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:00:56 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:20 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 09:07:28 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082C431.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:13 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 09:11:10 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F0B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:38 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:14:28 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:46 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-51.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:21:28 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-51.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:21:33 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:23:26 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:25:39 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:46 MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has joined #lisp 09:30:48 topo_ [~topo@p57B9D360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:35 -!- topo_ [~topo@p57B9D360.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:49 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:25 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-100.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:55 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 09:33:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:34 topo [~topo@p57B9D360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 -!- topo is now known as hikikomori 09:35:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-228.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:37:49 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-100.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:38:35 -!- toni [~toni@87-194-44-133.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:15 -!- balooga [~00u4440@76.194.238.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:55 weirdo [~sthalik@c146-20.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:42:23 -!- weirdo is now known as Guest51306 09:43:14 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-238-233.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:07 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:49:13 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-182-19-148.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:15 toni [~toni@87-194-44-133.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:58:55 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 09:59:50 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 10:00:12 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:01:46 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-51.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:42 I'm having some problems using `clbuild'. I already did a update and I installed `drakma' (clbuild install drakma). The help from `clbuild' says to use the following commando to load some program: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'ENTER-NAME-OF-SYSTEM-HERE). Running slime from an already started emacs I tried this (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'drakma), but it failed. I imagine that it does not know the path to the `drakma' package. How would 10:03:42 I add its path to `asdf'? 10:04:24 clbuild should take care of it 10:05:13 stassats: Hum. But I am not running slime from `clbuild slime'. 10:05:28 didi: does your slime start lisp with "clbuild lisp"? 10:05:34 It throws an error too. 10:05:42 (otherwise you need to manually configure ASDF paths) 10:07:37 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 10:08:14 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:42 36DAAC4LC [~user@p548A69E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:11:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:52 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:18 anair_84 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[~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:19:48 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has left #lisp 12:23:11 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:23:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:24:06 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:54 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 12:26:49 tcr [~tcr@115.132.13.22] has joined #lisp 12:27:12 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:46 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:34 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 12:29:56 (do ((i 0 (1+ i))) ((> i 10) nil) (format t "~A~%" i)) ... why the need for extra parenthesis around the inital state and not around the exit clause? 12:30:48 because there can be several initialization clauses 12:31:31 ahh, of course, d'oh >.<; thanks 12:32:54 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-myuakdhzwrcodsnz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:35:47 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:36:19 rayshiki [~rayshiki@121.240.157.179] has joined #lisp 12:36:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:37:21 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:06 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.94.56] has joined #lisp 12:39:08 pnur 12:40:29 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:41:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.13.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.112] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:43:28 Hraban: the point is that there's no parenthesis in lisp. It's a tree made of lists inside lists, and if there's a list somewhere, it's because there may be a number (variable or fixed) of elements in it. 12:44:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:44:40 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 yes, but i was wondering why there was a need of having just one list inside a list, unless of course there's room for multiple lists, a possibility which I overlooked :> 12:46:52 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:26 *stassats* never thought he would need to learn C++ to use Lisp 12:48:30 while trying to use commonqt 12:50:09 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:46 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:36 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:06 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 13:00:43 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:03:00 stassats, beware! Yoiu may get blacklisted somewhere: 13:03:02 http://www.netzpolitik.org/2010/terrorismusexperte-warnt-vor-c/ 13:04:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:05:24 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 13:05:38 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:05:43 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:22 pjb: ping 13:06:55 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:08 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:08:36 stassats: hi. still not having any luck with slime/sbcl crashes. 13:09:33 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/113036/ 13:11:18 dto: well, there's no sldb::quit restart in the *inferior-lisp* indeed 13:11:34 why are you evaluating in the *inferior-lisp*, and not in slime-repl? 13:11:47 hmm. maybe my config is out of date. 13:11:54 how do i configure slime with everything fancy? 13:12:00 i thought the fancy repl was deprecated or something. 13:12:04 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 13:12:21 it isn't 13:12:31 -!- debes [~debes@212.126.215.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:05 hmm 13:13:18 hey, no problems now :) 13:13:20 stassats: thanks man 13:14:02 still though, it should behave more nicely when there's no sldb::quit, i'll look at it later 13:14:26 so, i saw a discussion about SLIME going into Emacs 13:14:45 did that go anywhere? 13:15:07 not that i know 13:15:31 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:45 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:09 stassats: did you see our lisp games wiki? 13:16:13 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 i don't remem 13:17:19 ber 13:17:35 http://lispgames.ath.cx 13:19:09 we had a few pages on Cliki but we have scheme and clojure and parenscript folks, so we moved to our own mediawiki 13:19:14 i can edit it from emacs :) 13:19:21 *stassats* should do something with his half-unwritten chess interface in mcclim 13:19:34 too bad i've lost interest in playing chess in the meantime 13:21:32 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:21:50 jmbr_ [~jmbr@vpn231.vpn.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 13:21:58 hello [~user@220.234.67.79] has joined #lisp 13:23:12 -!- hello [~user@220.234.67.79] has left #lisp 13:23:32 is there any way to check (in a recursive function) if you have reached the end of a list possibly containing empty lists? 13:23:49 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@26.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24:00 (endp cdr-of-a-list) 13:24:22 hmm, how does it do that? o_O 13:24:33 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 magic! 13:24:49 :P 13:25:06 check to see if the cdr of the cons points to the cons itself? 13:25:30 it's the only difference i can think of between element 1 of (() ()) and nil 13:25:48 no, it checks whether the cdr is NIL 13:26:09 -!- rayshiki [~rayshiki@121.240.157.179] has left #lisp 13:26:19 but what if the list contains two empty lists in a row? 13:26:22 or wait 13:26:27 jmbr__ [~jmbr@26.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:26:34 well, you check CDR, not CAR 13:26:34 darkspe [~marcoiora@host96-85-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:26:45 yes, but the cdr of the first nil would be nil too 13:26:58 (list 1 2 3 nil nil 4 5) 13:27:08 sbcl users: on 1.0.40 anyway seeing the message "The function ASDF::SPLIT is undefined" while using ASDF-INSTALL to install a package? 13:27:32 Hraban: What is this recursive function doing? 13:27:45 I think ASDF::SPLIT was replaced with ASDF::SPLIT-STRING, but a reference was missed in ASDF-INSTALL/installer.lisp for 1.0.40 13:28:01 .seen nyef 13:28:17 Hraban: (labels ((iterate-over-list (list) (print (car list)) (unless (endp (cdr list)) (iterate-over-list (cdr list))))) (iterate-over-list '(list 1 2 3 nil nil 4 5))) 13:28:26 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@vpn231.vpn.ucm.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:28:46 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:48 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:50 hargettp: i've seen that error reported 13:28:56 how can i leave a message for nyef? 13:29:14 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:17 dto: You say "minion: memo for nyef: bla bla bla" 13:29:27 minion 13:29:28 is not here 13:29:32 ah. 13:29:41 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jdjvdbaftfjwkvbl] has left #lisp 13:29:56 stassats: a quick search of the bug database doesn't show it...guess I'll file it...looks like an easy fix, if my diagnosis is at all correct 13:30:02 ty 13:30:07 beach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/113106 (it's deliberately wrong, the question was how to correct it) 13:30:28 beach: nyef showed me a short CL program that modified an .exe dumped from windows , changing one byte so that it didn't put up the terminal window or the Kitten of Death message 13:31:02 Hraban: And what is it supposed to do? 13:31:14 add all the non-nil values in a list 13:31:30 aha! http://paste.lisp.org/display/98198 13:32:11 i can't think of a way (aside from using list-length, which i think i'm not supposed to use) to make it know when it's reached the end of a list and when it's just passing over a series of nils 13:32:27 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 13:32:30 Hraban: i just showed you the way 13:33:04 well yes, but your solution uses functions which weren't introduced yet in the book, so i'm assuming it's not supposed to be solved that way :> 13:33:35 Hraban: (if (null list) 0 (if (numberp list) list (+ (summit (car list)) (summit (cdr list))))) or something like that. 13:34:36 Hraban: (endp ...) == (null ...) 13:34:40 on lists 13:35:54 (defun summit (list) (+ (or (car list) 0) (if (cdr list) (summit (cdr list)) 0))) 13:36:44 Bah, just allow for the function to be called with a number instead. 13:38:15 just forget about stupid recursion: (loop for i in '(1 2 nil 3 4) when i sum it) 13:38:23 stassats: Won't you try to sum conses there sometimes 13:39:02 beach: no, unless someone puts them there 13:39:06 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:07 stassats: When (car list) is a cons, the (or (car list) 0) is going to have that cons as a value. 13:39:27 blergh 13:39:51 Or am I misunderstanding, and the list is only one level deep? 13:40:41 beach: the code Hraban pasted walks only one level 13:40:46 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:51 Oh, that's much easier then. 13:41:00 it's a list that can contain nil elements, but it says nothing about containing more lists 13:41:12 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:57 Hraban: I don't understand why you are having a problem then. (defun summit (list) (if (null list) 0 (if (null (car list)) (summit (cdr list)) (+ (car list) (summit (cdr list)))))) would be a typical solution, but that of stassats avoids the duplicate calls to summit. 13:44:02 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:42 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 Hraban: can you sum all numbers ignoring requirement that it may contain NIL? 13:46:44 -!- 36DAAC4LC is now known as urandom__ 13:46:46 ? 13:46:49 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:08 well, input could be like this: (1 1 1 1 () () 1 1 () 1 1) 13:47:15 and expected output would be "8" 13:47:17 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 13:47:43 i mean, do you understand how to make it work when the input is (1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1)? 13:48:45 yes, if present element is null, quit, else add the current element to the recursive call (with input being the cdr of the list) 13:49:03 that's wrongish 13:50:02 it should be "recurse if there are next elements" 13:50:33 well, it's assuming there are next elements, and if the next element happens to be null, then it'll quit, no? 13:51:57 ah yes, it should return 0 if (null (car lst)) 13:52:43 -!- fatblueduck [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:04 fatblueduck [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:27 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:53:28 -!- fatblueduck [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:33 fatblueduck [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:55:52 Hraban: so, did you understand? 13:56:49 yes, but i still don't know how endp works ;P 13:56:56 ah well, i'll find out sooner or later 13:57:14 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:17 it's exactly like NULL, except it signals errors on non-list arguments 13:57:51 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:58:09 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.94.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:58:23 and the CDR of a proper list is always a list 13:58:45 and the last CONS of a list has NIL as its CDR 13:59:23 that's why you should stop when the CDR of your list is NIL, because you've reached the end 14:00:12 hmm 14:00:16 *Hraban* will have to draw this out 14:00:34 fe[nl]ix: pong. 14:00:37 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:00:57 pjb: see my reply on iolib-devel 14:02:47 ok. Thanks. 14:04:11 Oops, I overlooked the qualification. Nonetheless, in clisp there must be a use or import that makes them the same symbol and have it report that error. 14:05:07 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:06 Or merely, in clisp the start and end parameters of the gray methods are not optional. 14:06:53 hmm 14:07:19 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:26 triPhone [~triphone@212.121.50.60.klj04-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 14:07:36 oops 14:07:42 they're keyword args 14:08:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:08:08 rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has joined #lisp 14:09:16 -!- triPhone [~triphone@212.121.50.60.klj04-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:15 right... 14:15:43 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 revel0_______ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:16:51 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-150.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20:19 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:37 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:21:08 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:44 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:29 -!- revel0_______ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:10 revel0_______ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:35:06 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:36:57 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has quit [Quit: g2g] 14:37:28 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:38:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-laxdivdwahrxoepw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:03 rswarbrick [~user@137.205.234.1] has joined #lisp 14:40:12 -!- rswarbrick [~user@137.205.234.1] has left #lisp 14:42:02 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:09 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:45 rswarbrick [~user@137.205.234.1] has joined #lisp 14:44:27 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:46:09 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:41 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:52 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:49:11 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:51:00 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:41 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-203.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:09 brown [~user@nat/google/x-yskyeiqdrvqvpcam] has joined #lisp 14:53:13 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:37 -!- brown is now known as Guest6246 14:54:04 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:55:37 hanDerPeder [~hanDerPed@138.82-134-78.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 14:55:55 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:56:05 how do I add a directory to the library path in Common Lisp? 14:56:18 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:23 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest38219 14:56:44 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:15 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 hanDerPeder: What do you mean by "library path"? 14:59:15 -!- Guest6246 is now known as reb 14:59:17 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59:35 -!- Guest38219 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:00:09 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:13 Guest38219: probably not using the correct terminology, new to lisp, how about load-path 15:00:14 ? 15:02:16 -!- darkspe [~marcoiora@host96-85-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:53 darkspe [~marcoiora@host96-85-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:40 -!- bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-wxtfizlxiddhysps] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:42 topo_ [~topo@p57B9BCE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:10 -!- topo [~topo@p57B9D360.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:26 I've been working today on the automated test results gui for our projects 15:10:59 if you would like to check it out, go http://dwim.hu and select Test / Last system results / Live 15:11:07 no direct url yet :( 15:12:29 ,l 15:14:12 Davsebamse [~davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 hanDerPeder: Maybe this is what you're looking for: (push #p"/path/to/directory/" asdf:*central-registry*) 15:14:58 jmbr: thats it, thanks 15:16:07 you're welcome 15:16:51 you'll probably also want to put that in your .sbclrc 15:17:28 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:26 levente_meszaros: great. I clicked on hu.dwim.perec.all/hu.dwim.perec.oracle and got "An internal server error has occurred, we are sorry for the inconvenience. Please try again" :-{ 15:19:01 hlavaty, unfortunately there are still a number of places like that 15:22:15 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.140] has joined #lisp 15:22:52 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:08 levente_meszaros: how do i see which test failed? if i look at hu.dwim.rdbms.all and click on the red link "failed" it says "Individual test result empty"? 15:24:29 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 15:25:03 hlavaty, that part has been deleted, I was lazy :), you must wait until tomorrow 15:25:34 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:35 ok 15:27:02 Davsebamse [~davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:27:04 bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-qirmcyhkwdevywkd] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:48 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:51 -!- revel0_______ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:30:57 revel0_______ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:35:42 stassats: is your question still open? 15:35:43 -!- dv- [~dv@unaffiliated/dv-] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:39:05 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 15:39:47 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:59 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-143-217.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:10 -!- rswarbrick [~user@137.205.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:06 a-ha! 15:43:32 lichtblau: yes, i'm stuck with reference variables 15:44:22 nil isn't a cons ^_^ 15:44:44 so that's how you make the difference between nil as an element of a list and nil as the end of a list! 15:45:14 Hraban: you can't check for a CDR of nil :D 15:45:49 no, but i can check for (consp (cdr ( ... (cdr list) ... ))) :P 15:45:52 lichtblau: i have a slot with (const QPoint &) signature, and i get qobject's pointer with X coordinate of this QPoint as an addres 15:46:03 s 15:48:31 as i see, unmarshaller treats it as a stack variable 15:49:07 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:49:16 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-3.html#_1490 15:49:26 -!- Revolve_ is now known as parallax 15:49:43 How should I interpret the (setf application-frame-layout) frame layout spec? 15:49:54 -!- parallax is now known as revolve 15:50:02 the other ones are on the form "function-name arguments" 15:50:07 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:21 but intuition would tell me i should do something like (setf (application-frame-layout frame) layout) 15:50:37 as there is a function called application-frame-layout that retrieves the current layout from a frame 15:51:00 however, this is handling CLIM, so it feels a bit dubious to just go in and setf one of its values 15:51:17 brb 15:51:46 Hraban: that makes no sense really. If the CDR of the cons is NIL, you're at the end of the list. 15:52:07 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:52:10 stassats: I think you'll need to help me there a little. What behaviour would you expect/need instead? 15:52:24 Hraban: if NIL is in the CAR of a cons (in a proper list), then it's an element of the list. 15:52:57 lichtblau: i don't know C++, so i don't really know what's really going on there 15:53:07 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-27-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:11 i was expecting to get a QPoint object to pass it around later 15:54:05 Hraban: but you can certainly test for (consp (cdr ...)) as you're traversing a list, that makes sense. 15:54:05 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-182-19-148.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:09 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:29 is this in one of your classes or is it a predefined Qt class which I could take a look at? I.e., is there a short example I could try? 15:55:05 i'll try to sketch an example 15:55:33 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 15:56:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:57:28 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 you don't really want to make any checks on (cdr list) when you are iterating ove ra list 16:00:13 you want to make checks only on car, and let subsequent recursions make similar checks on cdr 16:00:24 (which at that point will be car) 16:02:34 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:10 lichtblau: http://paste.lisp.org/display/113120 16:03:20 just found this new lisp dialect: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/cwvds/the_kernel_programming_language_pdf/ 16:03:41 lichtblau: right click on the window will emit the signal 16:03:45 levente_meszaros: one of my personal favourites that one 16:05:22 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:43 hi Fare 16:06:59 drewc, compared to what? 16:07:01 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.73] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:08:34 redline6561 [~yaaic@m155e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:56 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:39 to Arc? 16:09:43 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:44 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:11:26 hmm, I had this very same idea of operatives and applicates a couple of years ago 16:11:35 without the names 16:12:45 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:59 can a sbcl committer update asdf to 2.004? 16:13:15 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:13:28 levente_meszaros: compared to other lisps, really. Kernel is a lot of fun to play around with, and i think he's on to something. 16:13:33 Fare: I'm having problems with ASDF on CLISP 16:14:13 drewc, I need to read that paper 16:14:43 levente_meszaros: he's also got some slides somewhere that i found very informative 16:14:55 fe[nl]ix, not super surprising. 16:15:03 What version of clisp and asdf? 16:15:04 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:13 the clisp guys have given about 0 feedback on asdf 2. 16:15:33 and are not packaging asdf with clisp (that I know of) 16:15:43 levente_meszaros: http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/jns-nepls07.pdf 16:15:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:15:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:16:08 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:16:10 -!- l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-2.blueline.mg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:21 -!- revel0_______ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 16:16:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:16:48 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:24 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:53 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 16:19:02 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:08 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:14 bah, lisppaste is down 16:19:34 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:54 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-105-126-171.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:41 Fare: http://pastebin.com/K4YzpicT 16:20:47 -!- rme [rme@clozure-7B046602.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:21:26 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:52 -!- rme_ [rme@clozure-8CFCFC87.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:22:01 -!- hanDerPeder [~hanDerPed@138.82-134-78.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: hanDerPeder] 16:22:07 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-203.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:07 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 16:23:28 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:45 fe[nl]ix, your /etc/common-lisp/source-registry.conf is missing a :inherit-configuration 16:23:51 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:24:20 (at which point the :default-registry might be redundant) 16:24:47 stassats: okay, so CommonQt's first sends the slot string through _QMetaObject::normalizedSignature, then extracts the types from that. 16:25:14 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 16:25:33 So the very first step is already incorrect, because normalizedSignature discards "const&" from "const QPoint&", giving only QPoint. 16:26:10 -!- bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-qirmcyhkwdevywkd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:13 So we get type 14531 instead of 35139. 16:26:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26:51 There is also no code in unmarshal-slot-args to recognize const& types, so once we manage to correctly use type 35139, we also need code there to recognize it (meaning to skip one cffi:mem-ref). 16:27:04 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:04 hah, now you can even test a system just by pressing a button on dwim.hu 16:29:27 but there's no feedback when it gets finished, and you need to restart your session from the debug menu 16:29:45 Fare: so what does :inherit-configuration do exactly ? 16:30:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:30:19 fe[nl]ix, tells the configuration subsystem to chain into the next configuration thingie. 16:30:34 as opposed to ignoring it. 16:30:52 i.e. the difference between extending upstream configuration and overriding it. 16:30:54 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:29 a configuration is a sequence of upstream configurations, considered in order 16:32:07 at each point, you may either splice the upstream results, or ignore them 16:32:44 what's "upstream" = 16:32:45 ? 16:33:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:33:25 lichtblau: ok, that's something i can ponder on 16:33:35 upstream = the continuation of the configuration 16:34:15 start with builtin wrapper, explicit argument, environment variable, user conf file, user conf dir, system conf file, system conf dir. 16:34:24 then defaults. 16:34:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 stassats: hmm, actually it looks to me like a pretty normal pointer on the stack. Let me poke around a little more. 16:35:11 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:13 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:36:14 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-106-140-234.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 -!- rme [rme@clozure-8CFCFC87.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:37:59 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-126-171.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:59 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 16:38:46 Anything new in asdf2 that I should take for cmucl 20b? 16:38:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-220-181.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:39:01 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:31 Fare: I must protest against the madness which the configuration mechanism of ASDF2 is 16:40:04 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:11 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-225-206.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:30 minion: Welcome back! 16:43:31 thanks! 16:44:28 fe[nl]ix, :-( 16:44:42 *Amadiro* hi 16:44:45 you were part of the inspiration for this madness 16:45:10 I must have expressed myself very badly, because what I had in mind was much simpler 16:45:27 it's just like reading files in order from system to user, except that the reading is lazy 16:45:28 hi 16:45:35 hello Amadiro 16:45:53 which allows to avoid any performance horror due to misconfigured system. 16:46:13 what did you have in mind? 16:46:24 Amadiro: You have been coming here for a few months, but you don't say very much. 16:46:36 and YES, searching through tons of subdirectories can be painfully slow. 16:46:44 beach, that's because I haven't done a lot of lisp recently :) 16:46:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:55 Amadiro: I see. 16:47:06 But I like to keep up with the community, so I read a bit of conversation every now and then, if I have time. 16:47:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:47:28 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:33 *beach* vanishes in order to cook dinner, and will be back later. 16:47:33 Fare: I have an ASDF configuration file http://github.com/brown/protobuf/blob/master/example/protobuf-example.asd 16:47:53 that uses a component type that's defined in another ASD file. 16:47:56 Fare: source registries and output translations should be configured in the same file 16:48:11 fe[nl]ix, even if they are used by different programs? 16:48:24 For instance, xcvb uses source registry but not output translations. 16:48:41 and using the same files leads to inclusion nightmares. 16:48:50 Fare: What's the canonical way to ensure that the ASD file that defines the component type is loaded before my protobuf-example.asd file is read. 16:49:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-225-206.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:49:20 the current system allows for wrapping configurations, which is essential for providing defaults while letting other layers override them. 16:49:20 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-246-151.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:49:21 the configuration files should not contain policy regarding the order of search, but only the "existence" of some directories where to search 16:49:22 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:49:46 reb: your defsystem can use :system-depends-on I believe 16:49:51 (using asdf2) 16:50:15 Fare: better have an :include directive that accepts wildcards than hardcoding search in .d directories 16:50:21 reb: using asdf1, your asd file should (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :dependency) at the beginning of your .asd file. 16:50:32 stassats: anyway, if you replace the MEM-AREF in UNMARSHAL-SLOT-ARGS with (cffi:inc-pointer argv (* i (cffi:foreign-type-size :pointer))), then this particular slot will work (but most of your other slots will be broken). 16:50:42 Fare: I think the problem is that my defsystem can't be read until the file that defines the component type is loaded. 16:50:52 personally I just (in-package :asdf), or let asdf create its own temporary package, unless I'm defining methods and classes. 16:51:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:18 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-222-247.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:51:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-246-151.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:51:21 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:53:07 reb: can you patch protobuf to create a (sub)class in asdf: instead (or in addition to) protobuf-system: ? 16:53:13 Fare: that way you would reduce the total number of configuration sources to just two 16:53:39 if so, you can use :system-depends-on (:protobuf) and a keyword instead of protobuf-system:proto-file 16:53:42 Fare: Are you recommending that I place the new component type in the ASDF package, instead of in one of my packages? That would work, I think, because any defsystem that uses the new component type will USE package ASDF or can reference its symbols explicitly. 16:53:48 Fare: and xcvb can simply ignore directives that it doesn't know 16:53:49 say :protobuf-file 16:54:20 fe[nl]ix, it's a bit late in the game to convince me to make such a change, you know. 16:54:33 At this point, I'm not going to break existing ASDF 2 installations. 16:54:49 Fare: Yes, I can associate the class with ASDF:PROTOBUF-FILE, instead of placing it in my own package. 16:54:55 You could have convinced me when I first released the code... :-/ 16:55:01 Thanks for the suggestion ... 16:55:06 -!- redline6561 [~yaaic@m155e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 16:55:44 "The operative therefore has complete control over operand evaluation, if any. Consequently, operatives are readily capable of replacing both special forms and macros...." 16:55:48 I like this idea 16:56:14 fe[nl]ix, your design might work, but opens other can of worms (such as what to do with unrecognized directives made for other programs -- or is it made for an update to current program?) 16:56:38 levente_meszaros, where is that from? 16:56:40 Fare: ignore them completely 16:56:50 Fare: There's greater change of name collision when modifying the ASDF package, but that doesn't concern me greatly. 16:57:00 Fare, http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/cwvds/the_kernel_programming_language_pdf/ 16:57:14 fe[nl]ix, might work, as long as some of the directives allow to control the version of software. 16:57:26 fe[nl]ix, but once again, a bit too late a suggestion. 16:58:40 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 16:58:42 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:42 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 16:59:20 reb: yes, but that's how things are right now. 16:59:21 levente_meszaros: FEXPRs? 16:59:51 I've been trying to get John Shutt at the BLM for a few months. 16:59:56 sykopomp, yes the paper mentions those too 17:00:17 Fare: it's never too late to fix things 17:00:22 is there a difference between operatives and fexprs in kernel? 17:00:44 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:01:37 fe[nl]ix, would mean two configuration systems at the same time during the transition. 17:01:43 "To facilitate explicit evaluation, Kernel allows applicatives and operatives to be freely converted into each other by adding and removing wrappers that induce operand evaluation. Kernel has no standard quasiquotation facilities..." 17:01:47 fe[nl]ix, I don't think it's worth it. 17:01:54 that says, quasi quotation can be implemented in a library 17:01:55 *sykopomp* wonders what kernel does to make FEXPR performance not suck. 17:02:11 I'm not convinced that your design is superior, much less so much superior that it justifies the disruption. 17:02:37 actually, I think that separate configuration files makes automated management slightly simpler 17:02:51 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:05 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:25 levente_meszaros: does the paper talk about what tricks kernel uses to make FEXPRs more acceptable? 17:03:41 Fare: no, just one 17:03:47 sykopomp, I don't know, why don't you read it? ;-) 17:04:28 Fare: it's easier to understand. I've read that piece of documentation several times in the past months and I still find it very confusing 17:04:44 levente_meszaros: kernel's been around for a while now, I think... 17:04:51 at the cost of what, 8KB of disk space on a dumb filesystem. 17:05:00 hehe I find it strangely reassuring that he starts his paper at section 0 17:05:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has joined #lisp 17:05:18 fe[nl]ix, I'm not sure how mixing directives would make things less confusing 17:05:23 the FEXPR was superseded by another paper also from the 60's which formed the basis for the syntax of ML and Haskel. 17:05:46 younder: oh? 17:05:49 especially for configuration directories as in asdf-output-translations.conf.d/55-foo.conf 17:05:53 what do you mean 'superseded'? 17:06:52 Fare: I would have just one configuration file that specifies everything. that's good 17:07:25 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:59 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:59 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:08:08 fe[nl]ix, no good when debian, clbuild, quicklisp, etc., each want to add their own lines to the configuration. 17:08:17 drewc, are there implementations for Kernel? 17:08:29 which was a constraint on the current design - just like /etc/sysctl.d/ 17:08:45 levente_meszaros, jns probably has one somewhere. 17:08:45 I wonder -- macros can be a bit of a pain to debug, and inspecting macroexpansions is an important tool in doing so. What happens when you can't really macroexpand a syntactic abstraction? 17:09:02 dboswell [~dave@64.55.42.132] has joined #lisp 17:09:03 You call it a special form and go home. 17:09:09 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 17:09:22 Fare: and what if I want to read the files in asdf-output-translations.conf.d/ before asdf-output-translations.conf, not the other way around ? 17:09:32 Zhivago: that's all well and good, but special forms are few and far between. 17:09:43 -!- dboswell [~dave@64.55.42.132] has left #lisp 17:09:53 Zhivago: "set it and forget it" is no good if you're expecting to use this tool to expand your language regularly. 17:09:55 syko: As they should be -- why wouldn't you be able to expand a macro? 17:10:18 you can expand a macro, but can you expand a FEXPR? 17:10:42 I like how the primitives, derived things, modules and features are organized 17:10:53 fe[nl]ix, you can make asdf-output-translations.conf a wrapper that includes a directory before its own directives. 17:11:13 I don't remember very well how output-translations handles overriding of directives... 17:11:17 sykopomp: While running the program, at any rate. 17:11:20 there might be a bug in there 17:11:27 sykopomp, it's not even clear what that would mean expanding a FEXPR 17:11:35 levente_meszaros: that's what I'm getting at. 17:11:38 lichtblau: so, how to distinguish them? 17:11:43 but you could implement a macro system pretty easily on top of that 17:11:49 so you lost nothing 17:11:50 syko: But why would it be significantly different to inlining? 17:12:29 Zhivago: Inlining is something I can tell my compiler to simply stop doing? 17:12:30 Just show the code that it uses to expand rather than a result. 17:12:48 inlining is something that your expandery thing can emulate. 17:13:53 Zhivago: I _want_ the result. 17:14:05 you can always look at an fexpr's source code and take a guess. 17:14:21 Then run the program. 17:14:23 stassats: I was thinking that it would be sufficient to see whether it is a pointer at all, i.e. if (eq (qtype-stack-item-slot type) 'class) 17:14:23 but that still leaves you without the ability to simply inspect a macroexpansion for sample input. 17:14:26 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-33-96.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-222-247.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:14:27 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:14:32 Zhivago: That _still_ leaves you without the tools. 17:14:51 Well, you could remember what it expanded into last time you ran the program. 17:15:05 you don't know what it expanded to. You can guess, based on the result. 17:15:16 sorted by depth, otherwise first one wins. 17:15:35 so no bug. 17:15:43 Zhivago: I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying -- I don't know how you can use something like macroexpansion to inspect and debug fexprs. 17:15:46 just non-trivial semantics. 17:15:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:52 and I consider that a loss. 17:16:20 Hm. asdf 2 breaks some older packages, is that right? 17:16:39 sykopomp, it's called step-by-step evaluation. 17:16:47 Odin-, unhappily, it does. 17:16:48 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:56 Fare: that's unfortunate. 17:17:11 Odin-, although most such packages would have been broken on some implementation or some previously existing asdf extension. 17:17:20 Fare: I see. 17:17:29 asdf2 breaks them on all implementations and by default instead. 17:17:42 *Odin-* just noticed closure-html going AWOL. 17:18:00 which reminds me I have to fix sbcl-page 17:18:15 Odin-: there is a patch on the mailing list 17:19:02 doesn't console you much when you were only using an implementation that was in practice working, without any of the problematic asdf extensions. 17:19:57 Fare: Hm? 17:20:15 i.e. things that don't work with asdf2's output-translations would have been broken by people using asdf-binary-locations. 17:21:19 Fare: I'm not complaining that stuff breaks, just being sure that's the issue. 17:21:25 things using (non-portable) pathname syntax and/or relying on their implementation's magic or not-so-magic handling (or failing to handle) / and . in pathnames were due for a fall. 17:22:01 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:15 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:22 the only real "portable" incompatibilty introduced that I know of is that defsystem doesn't evaluate its toplevel :pathname argument anymore, just like other components. 17:22:35 but you can #. it if that's what you really want. 17:22:41 uhm, what does the fact that asdf:component-relative-pathname doesn't work anymore have to do with extensions or implementations? 17:23:05 lichtblau, actually, it used to not work portably at all. 17:23:06 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:14 Now it does have a portable well defined meaning. 17:23:35 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 17:24:07 I couldn't save something that was completely non-deterministic, implementation-dependent, dependent on how *default-pathname-defaults* might have changed in between the defsystem and the asdf:operate, etc. 17:25:04 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:04 instead, I made it similar in spirit, identical in the simple case, but gave it well-defined, portable semantics. 17:26:25 anyway, having #-asdf2 in the sources is stupid, so I'll switch closure-common to work only with asdf2. 17:29:37 Issue was in closure-html, though. 17:29:41 rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has joined #lisp 17:29:43 :p 17:29:57 sorry, that's what I meant 17:29:58 as of boolean, Kernel's approach is even more restrictive than Scheme's, there's not only a separate boolean type, but there's no generic true value accepted by the conditional primitive 17:30:08 also, merge-pathnames is not portable. You should either use asdf:merge-pathnames* or directly (asdf:system-relative-pathname :closure-html "resources/") 17:30:10 I like that too 17:30:13 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:47 levente_meszaros: I kinda like #t vs #f 17:31:13 sykopomp, well, we use that all over the place :) 17:31:35 at some point I even considered shadowing IF 17:31:49 and use CL:IF only where speed matters 17:31:54 levente_meszaros: you don't use it semantically. It's just some read macros that try to hide CL's semantics. 17:32:08 levente_meszaros, maybe what you want is implementing the Racket module system on top of CL... 17:32:11 ok... Which lisp implementation is it that doesn't support (merge-pathnames "resources/" path-to-my-directory), and why doesn't that impl just deserve to die? 17:32:11 shadowing IF won't fix the 'problem', either. 17:32:20 yes, but it encodes the intention clearly 17:32:24 Fare: ....that still won't help. 17:32:30 lichtblau, about ANY native implementation on Windows. 17:32:40 lichtblau: doing (and (eq (qtype-kind type) :stack) (eq (qtype-stack-item-slot type) 'class)) seems to work, though i don't really know what i'm doing 17:33:20 lichtblau, when the default pathname defaults is on a different drive from the system. 17:33:28 sykopomp, what won't help? 17:33:35 Fare: they don't recognize #\/ as separator ? 17:33:37 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 spending two days on making right click menu for deleting items of a list widget isn't fun... 17:33:50 Fare: no. Unless you feel like reimplementing every single thing in Racket that happens to use those boolean semantics. 17:33:55 fe[nl]ix, (pathname-device "resources/") ==> d: 17:34:03 in that case, sure -- but you can do the same in CL. 17:34:09 Fare, yeah, I know Racket, I even met Matthias, it was really interesting 17:34:12 (pathname-device *system-path*) ==> c: 17:34:27 maybe we are playing in the wrong league due to some historical reasons 17:34:29 (merge-pathnames "resources/" *system-path*) ==> d:... OOPS! 17:34:48 levente_meszaros: what do you mean playing in the wrong league? 17:34:53 and who is 'we'? 17:35:09 by we I meant us :-) 17:35:25 that doesn't clarify it... 17:35:25 Strav [~user@dsl-216-221-32-60.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 17:35:29 Fare: I tried using :system-depends-on and got an error. Could it be :defsystem-depends-on or perhaps just :depends-on ? 17:35:41 reb: yup, defsystem-depends-on 17:35:44 sorry about that. 17:35:50 sykopomp, me and attila 17:35:58 ah okay. 17:36:00 Fare: Quite OK ... I'll give it a try. 17:36:13 levente_meszaros: so you're thinking racket would have been a better choice to do what you've been doing? 17:36:34 sykopomp, no, because it didn't even exist at the time 17:36:55 but 4 years passed by and we are open minded 17:37:05 and have the budget to change anytime we wish to 17:37:08 levente_meszaros: PLT Scheme didn't exist 4 years ago? 17:37:14 moah [~gnu@178.1.121.100] has joined #lisp 17:37:19 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:27 well, certainly not in the form it exists today 17:37:30 Fare: I don't understand. Why wouldn't (pathname-device "resources/") be NIL? 17:37:42 if you say so. 17:38:17 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181209024.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:38:22 -!- Strav [~user@dsl-216-221-32-60.aei.ca] has left #lisp 17:42:28 lichtblau, may or may not be. 17:42:38 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:42 Fare: will :INHERIT-CONFIGURATION splice the current configuration? seems like it's not the case for me here, but i may be confused... 17:42:57 attila_lendvai, it does. 17:43:03 right where the thing happens. 17:43:08 somehow the resulting registry is not big enough 17:43:14 *attila_lendvai* double checks 17:43:17 Fare: Anything new in asdf2 that I should take for cmucl 20b? 17:43:24 not since 2.004 17:43:50 anair_84 [~anair_84@wifi-169-232-226-48.host.ucla.edu] has joined #lisp 17:43:57 jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:44:00 a speed optimization in 2.112 (2.004 = 2.111) but not worth a new release I believe, unless nothing else changes for 1-2 months. 17:44:41 "about ANY native implementation on Windows" doesn't include Allegro then, where everything is in perfect order for that example. 17:45:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:45:39 Fare: Ok. I won't update since we already have 2.004. I've never had an issue with asdf's speed anyway. 17:46:36 lichtblau: i've put http://github.com/stassats/commonqt repository with my changes, mostly workarounds to keep me going 17:47:53 lichtblau, maybe the case was more involved, because of (merge-pathnames ...) and/or logical hosts. 17:48:37 stassats: nice. 17:48:59 I believe (eq (qtype-kind type) :stack) isn't needed. 17:49:47 i hope after managing to get something working i'll get enough knowledge for proper fixes 17:51:00 rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:35 Good evening everyone! 17:52:09 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-11974.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:44 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:52:48 or I may have been confused once again between effects that exist in those cases and effects that I imagined in others :-/ 17:53:01 jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:53:24 or at some point asdf may have (maybe by my fault?) contained more (merge-pathnames ...) than it should have. 17:53:30 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:09 Ogedei [~user@e178195149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:37 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-38-87.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:56:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-33-96.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:56:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@160.79.132.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:40 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:58:45 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:58 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wifi-169-232-226-48.host.ucla.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:25 git blame 1f7690b49b73b499ff2bd2ad77ec23c273941814 -- asdf.lisp suggests that some of the merge-pathnames with implicit *default-pathname-defaults* trace back to danb's asdf, though since then, some contorted mechanisms have been added to properly inherit the host from the parents. 18:00:47 Ugh. Why does scp sometimes crash with a floating-point exception? 18:01:06 *rtoym* restarts the upload 18:01:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-38-87.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:00 things must have gone awry when I started removing this crazy contorted mechanism to replace it by something otherwise saner. 18:02:07 scp: division by 0 ? 18:02:10 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:02:39 hanDerPeder [~hanDerPed@c92FBBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 18:02:43 I guess. 18:03:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-170.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 I don't suppose it's giving out the si_code from the sigfpe 18:04:45 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 Fare: :inherit-configuration not only inherits the current registry but also some other defaults like ~/.sbcl/systems and /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/ 18:06:31 is that intended behaviour? 18:06:43 if so, is there a symbol that only inherits the current registry? 18:06:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:07:02 Strav [~user@dsl-216-221-32-60.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 18:07:09 attila_lendvai, :inherit-configuration inherits *all* your configuration layer's continuation. 18:07:22 on sbcl, this includes the above defaults. 18:07:36 Fare: any supported way to extend the _current_ registry? 18:07:39 what do you mean by "current registry" ? 18:07:44 s/supported/public 18:07:48 oh. interesting. 18:08:00 the value of asdf::*foo-bar-registry* 18:08:03 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:08 nope, not currently supported. 18:08:27 jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 however, if you know how you got your current registry, you can "just" re-generate with a modified parameter. 18:08:41 He. Anyone lately tried to asdf compile lift on sbcl? (there's this "MOP package not found" error in the utilities.lisp file which I can get a workaround by using sb-mop, but it seems there are several errors in lift.lisp itself...) 18:09:03 attila_lendvai, OR, you can push stuff on the asdf:*central-registry* the bad old way. 18:09:14 Strav: do you need Lift? 18:09:50 Fare: sure. but i don't want to depend on how the current registry was put together. (it's about shadowing the 'live' versions all our libs with the 'head' repos) 18:09:52 if you're just installing hunchentoot, quit the debugger and do asdf-install:install request again 18:09:55 it's needed by one of packages on which cffi is based, and I need cffi coz I need clsql. 18:09:56 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:20 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 Fare: anyways, i'll hardcode it for now, so it's not an open issue anymore. but :inherit-configuration is not enough resolution, and in at least one case it was misleading 18:10:31 it's not needed, asdf-install is just stupid, what i described should work in your case 18:10:37 strav: yes, the flavor of lift installed via asdf-install has been broken since May....it is possible that git has the latest working version, as I saw email about fixes being made 18:10:52 or consider using clbuild 18:12:28 stassats: asdf does seems to fail on mere warning but there are actual compile error in lift.lisp... 18:12:59 that's ok, since you don't need lift 18:13:39 stassats: so it's listed in dependencies just for style? 18:13:48 it's not listed in dependencies 18:15:12 stassats: it's something asdf does everytime it installs a package just to annoy? 18:15:24 no, it's asdf-install 18:15:53 with hindsight asdf-install was a terrible name choice 18:15:53 asdf-install:install actually... 18:16:16 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:48 Strav: which is its prime modus operandi 18:17:23 stassats,strav: actually, hunchentoot depends on bordeaux-threads, and (except on lispworks), bordeaux-threads-test depends on lift...that's why the issue keeps coming up :) 18:17:54 hargettp: and bordeaux-threads doesn't depend on bordeaux-threads-test 18:18:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-170.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:59 stassats: then why does this clause in bordeaux-threads defsystem do... :in-order-to ((test-op (load-op bordeaux-threads-test))) 18:20:33 hargettp: it tells asdf what to do in case you run asdf:test-system 18:21:19 but asdf-install, being simplistic, just loads all .asd files it can find 18:21:37 stassats: ah, I see...ty :) 18:22:50 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:24:23 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:24:47 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:26:01 fatblued` [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:08 attila: if you include such support, as a decompiler for current registry or some such, I'll include it in next version. 18:28:28 -!- fatblued` [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:41 fatblued` [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:28 -!- fatblueduck [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:08 jtza9 [~AndChat@41.56.36.57] has joined #lisp 18:31:44 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@vc-41-14-198-69.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:07 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:18 Athas [~athas@x1-6-00-1f-33-b2-6d-9c.k959.webspeed.dk] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:34:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:34:39 -!- jtza9 [~AndChat@41.56.36.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:56 -!- _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:39:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:07 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:48:59 jtza8 [~AndChat@41.56.36.57] has joined #lisp 18:48:59 hello 18:50:24 -!- abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:50:55 -!- Strav [~user@dsl-216-221-32-60.aei.ca] has left #lisp 18:54:22 pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:19 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:48 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 -!- Athas [~athas@x1-6-00-1f-33-b2-6d-9c.k959.webspeed.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:52 hargettp: I'd be grateful if somebody(you?) converted the test suite to something nicer, such as fiveam :) 19:04:23 alternatively, I'll add it to my TODO list, but it's pretty low priority 19:04:39 fe[nl]ix: test suite for what? bordeaux-threads? :0 19:04:42 :) 19:04:47 yes 19:04:48 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:03 blandest` [~user@109.166.140.25] has joined #lisp 19:09:04 fe[nl]ix: while I am grateful for b-t's otherwise smooth operation, I doubt that I will hit that item on my TODO list anytime soon either... :) 19:09:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-75-18-189-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:53 Fare: Thanks for your help earlier. I've updated http://github.com/brown/protobuf to use the technique you suggested. 19:12:48 fe[nl]ix: have you ever looked at lisp-unit? I've been using it for a while...v plain vanilla, but gets the job done..? 19:12:58 -!- blandest` [~user@109.166.140.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:28 -!- hugod123 [~hugo123@bas1-montreal50-1279633458.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod123] 19:15:12 hargettp: i find lisp-unit a little too *unit and not enough lisp-* . 19:16:33 reb: you're welcome. 19:16:33 drewc: does that mean you find it too simplified as well? 19:17:35 sadly, I had forgotten that lisp-unit is not downloadable/asdf-install'able in a friendly way atm...cliki.net does not know about it 19:17:35 are there up-to-date SLIME docs anywhere? 19:18:08 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-96-34.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:18:43 sykopomp: in doc/ 19:18:44 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:04 pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:14 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 19:19:29 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:17 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:55 hargettp: not simplified enough really. ASSERT-FOO? i prefer (IS (FOO ...)) like in 5am or stefil. 19:29:04 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-199-41.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:29:34 *stassats* has simplified unit tests: none 19:29:39 stassats: thanks 19:29:50 And they all pass right, stassats? 19:29:51 sykopomp: also see M-x slime-info 19:29:53 errmm 19:29:57 stassats: good technique, it has precedent too 19:29:58 can someone help me ? 19:30:03 gigamonkey: they do! 19:30:05 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 19:30:07 i setup clojure for emacs but somehow it fails 19:30:21 homie: try #clojure 19:30:22 homie: #clojure 19:30:25 homie: #clojure 19:30:36 the clojure script i put on my .eamcs.d folder which is on a load path, and itself runs on console 19:30:39 ups 19:30:40 ok 19:34:02 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 19:34:10 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:50 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-199-41.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:35:36 laynor [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-39-239-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:35:52 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:41:17 -!- darkspe [~marcoiora@host96-85-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:25 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:45:17 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:46:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:52:01 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:52:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:53:39 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:36 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-147-1.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:37 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: IOLib 0.7.0, SBCL 1.0.41, ABCL 0.21.0, GNU CLISP 2.49 19:57:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:54 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-197-119.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:25 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:10 gabnet [~gabnet@227.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:00 lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:42 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932e988.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:18 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:09:41 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 20:10:20 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:01 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-7-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:16:36 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-21-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:45 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 20:18:48 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:19:08 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:19:34 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:20:08 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 20:21:15 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:19 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:16 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-138-8.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:48 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #lisp 20:25:45 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.191.246.117] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 20:25:52 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.128.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:28 xinming [~hyy@122.238.74.13] has joined #lisp 20:26:42 How can I extend the length of lists and vectors printed by sldb (ie, print everything instead of "..")? 20:26:56 in the backtrace. 20:27:00 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-163-60.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:27:51 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:24 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:30:20 hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:59 topo [~topo@p57B9F82E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:00 pjb: swank:*sldb-string-length* is an alist of printer variables used by sbdb, you should set *print-length* to nil in that alist 20:33:30 err, swank::*sldb-printer-bindings* 20:34:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:03 -!- topo_ [~topo@p57B9BCE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:35:07 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@227.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:36:29 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 20:37:24 -!- hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has quit [Quit: hugod123] 20:37:28 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #lisp 20:38:15 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 20:39:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:40:05 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:27 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #lisp 20:40:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:39 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host123-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:42:12 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:32 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #lisp 20:43:04 -!- benny [~user@i577A7F93.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:45 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:45:58 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:02 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:22 hmm in chapter 2 of Practical CL, (if (not ...)) is used where (unless ...) would be clearer. i wonder if that could be a good place to introduce unless, inserting a paragraph afterwards.. /cc gigamonkey 20:49:24 hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:51 steven_t: I don't think there'll be a new edition. 20:49:58 ok 20:50:04 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:12 im just proud that i thought of it, thats all really 20:50:20 *steven_t* is new to lisp and loving learning it 20:51:04 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:51:09 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 20:51:32 it could be written as (loop do (add-record (prompt-for-cd)) until (y-or-n-p "Another? [y/n]: ")) 20:51:34 -!- hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:52:02 that's a sneak peek into LOOP 20:52:20 pkhuong_: IIRC gigamonkey talked some about a sequel... 20:52:31 so a second edition might be possible one day 20:52:57 stassats: diggy 20:52:58 <3 20:53:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 20:53:36 i assume loop is a macro and do must precede a block and until must precede a block 20:53:42 *steven_t* goes back to work 20:53:55 minion, loop? 20:53:55 loop: LOOP for Black Belts: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 20:54:16 steven_t: it's a fancy macro 20:54:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-75-18-189-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:06 it even has two modes of operation simple and extended, the code in the chapter you're reading uses the simple form 20:55:16 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:55:22 my example is extended form, which you will learn later 20:57:36 hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:52 sweet 20:58:00 hi Fare 20:58:07 -!- moah [~gnu@178.1.121.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:32 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:41 bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-mvocagowihqkbozd] has joined #lisp 21:00:59 steven_t, hi. How's the hacking so far? 21:07:15 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:40 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:25 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:01 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:12:52 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:35 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181209024.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:17 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:35 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:49 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:03 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:20:10 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:20:29 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-197-0.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:23:21 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-45.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:23:28 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:24 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 21:26:11 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:40 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:01 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has left #lisp 21:30:06 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:30:53 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-197-0.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:31:50 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 21:33:08 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:35:02 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-100-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:49 Sounds like clisp won't be including asdf2. Because cmucl includes both asdf2 and mk:defsys, maybe. 21:36:19 clisp doesn't include asdf1 either 21:36:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-11974.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:37:09 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 -!- syntaxman [wade@funtoo/user/syntaxman] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:41 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:41:13 rtoym: I think they should remove Gray streams. after all, SBCL includes both gray streams and sb-simple-streams 21:41:40 it sure does, but only one of them actually works. 21:42:19 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 21:42:38 foom: ok, so s/SBCL/ACL/ :) 21:44:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:44:26 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:39 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:21 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:27 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932e988.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:49:03 so I just found out recently that output is pretty slow in SBCL for our app, and that about half of the time in output is apparently spent in (position #\newline thing :from-end t :start start :end end) in fd-sout. Neat, eh? 21:49:34 turn of pretty print? 21:49:38 off 21:49:48 that's in the lowlevel output code 21:49:51 can't turn it off 21:49:51 -!- hugod123 [~hugo123@h237.six.net] has quit [Quit: hugod123] 21:50:26 bah, bad output strategy 21:50:46 I assume because pretty-printing is specified to work no matter if you've already printed other stuff before pretty-printing something? 21:51:31 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 21:52:39 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:43 rtoym, herep 21:54:08 does this work for cmucl as a getenv? (so I may share definition with SCL) 21:54:15 (lambda (x) (cdr (assoc x ext:*environment-list* :test #'string=))) 21:56:19 foom: no, I mean that in iolib only write-char does output translation, which means that write-string won't waste time searching for #\Newline 21:56:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:56:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:06 fe[nl]ix: I don't understand. What if you write-string and then ask for the column? 21:58:02 stream-column returns NIL 21:59:16 hmm, but you need that when pretty-printing 21:59:46 but not in general 22:00:22 are you not allowed to write-string and then pretty print something and expect it to know what column it started on? 22:00:54 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:13 should I kill the :uid feature of the asdf output translation pathname DSL? 22:01:16 adeht: Heh. I have to admit, I didn't understand his reasoning at all. 22:01:30 rtoym: whose reasoning ? 22:01:33 the only user was c-l-c, and it stopped using it for security reasons. 22:01:56 fe[nl]ix: Sam Steingold reasoning on not including asdf2 in clisp. 22:01:58 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-yskyeiqdrvqvpcam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:05 s/gold/gold's/ 22:02:29 rtoym, where does he say he won't? There was an answer by him that looked more interrogative than negative 22:02:49 foom: there are many use cases of streams you don't use pretty-printing 22:03:02 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:03:05 Fare: The clisp list, in response to my answer that cmucl has it and has mk:defsys too. 22:03:06 fe[nl]ix: I agree, like my use 22:03:11 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 22:03:34 so I'd rather require the user to turn on the slow write-string and use the fast one by default 22:03:37 cool 22:03:41 fe[nl]ix: but is there a way to avoid the overhead in the sbcl fd streams due to pretty-printing, while not also breaking pretty-printing? 22:03:42 I'll add this to iolib 22:03:53 or should I just switch to iolib? :) 22:04:27 the pretty-printer could modify the stream while pretty-printing 22:04:48 right, but see above. If you start pretty printing when there's already text on a line 22:04:56 is it okay to have that not work? 22:05:06 or it could break abstraction and use and internal function, but that won't work in the general case of gray streams 22:05:15 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:06:38 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:06:46 Fare: Yes, I think that would work as getenv. But cmucl also has unix;unix-getenv. Don't remember if that's always been there or not. 22:07:04 probably NOT always been there. 22:07:10 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:07:21 But probably can rely on it, if you tell me I should be using it. 22:07:57 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:07 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:40 Fare: getenv was added Oct 2009. So *environment-list* is the best way, unless you don't want to support anything older than 2009-10 snapshot. 22:09:02 ok for environment-list, then. 22:10:21 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:27 rtoym, Fare: please insist :) 22:10:53 Insist on what? 22:11:19 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178195149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:29 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:59 Ogedei [~user@e178195149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:09 on including ASDF2 in CLISP 22:12:22 Heh. As if sds listens to me. :-) 22:12:25 How are they in a position to *insist*? 22:12:42 *You're* probably in a better position to insist. :) 22:13:00 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:15 foom: if there's already text on a line you can turn on the slow write-string in the stream and output a #\Newline - which will reset the column 22:16:03 fe[nl]ix: sure, I guess an implementation can provide a "fast but non-compliant" switch. 22:16:09 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:16:10 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:10 I'll try to re-subscribe the clisp ML after I wake up :D 22:16:18 fe[nl]ix: I just wish it could be fast by default. :) 22:16:46 it can't 22:17:16 not unless you add to the standard that write-string must not be used for outputting multiple lines :) 22:17:47 or that pretty-printing can't depend upon the column being correct after stuff is printed by other means. 22:17:56 fe[nl]ix, insist on what? 22:18:09 on including ASDF2 in CLISP 22:18:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:47 what about write-sequence instead of write-string? 22:18:49 foom: no, because the fast path also allows not to keep track of the column 22:18:57 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:19:14 write-string should *probably* remember the column 22:19:41 I'd be pissed if while pretty printing, it didn't. 22:19:42 Fare: write-sequence in iolib calls write-string, IIRC 22:19:55 fe[nl]ix, ouch. 22:20:04 isn't that an abstraction inversion? 22:20:06 Fare: nobody complained until now about it 22:20:29 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178195149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:20:34 Fare: no, it's type dispatch 22:21:07 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:43 later ;) 22:24:29 -!- hanDerPeder [~hanDerPed@c92FBBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: hanDerPeder] 22:29:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:22 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:36 Anarch_ [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:35:22 Fare: havent gotten to that stage yet.. still lots of reading :) 22:36:46 steven_t, enjoy. 22:37:01 steven_t, what will be your next/(first?) program? 22:40:36 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:44:57 Adlai``` [~adlai@46-116-52-110.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 22:46:16 -!- Adlai`` [~adlai@bzq-109-66-4-45.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:09 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/2010071400]] 22:50:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CEBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:07 -!- jtza8 [~AndChat@41.56.36.57] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:05:19 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:06:39 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:03 psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-189.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:47 Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has joined #lisp 23:10:35 What is the best scheme implementation? Is c-lisp better than scheme? 23:10:46 open [~cutintape@unaffiliated/open] has joined #lisp 23:11:46 Sorry, I asked the wrong question. My question should have been: 23:11:47 What is the best common-lisp implementation? Is c-lisp better than scheme? 23:12:12 The best is the one that works for you. 23:12:42 And this channel is about common-lisp, so what kind of answer would you expect from that? 23:12:51 :-) 23:13:24 sbcl and ccl are well regarded. I personally use cmucl with a mix of others. 23:15:10 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 Allegro and Lispworks are quite good too, from what I hear. 23:16:04 common lisp is best lisp! 23:16:16 :3 trust me I am an expert 23:18:00 Somelauw: you'll soon find that you can't use either scheme or common-lisp, but that you can pick a particular implementation and use it. 23:18:16 btw, I found enough information that should allow to actually have a LinJ-like language that directly generates Android applications :) 23:18:26 common lisp is the best lisp! trust me I'm from government. Now give me your money. 23:18:53 (the same data should allow to get ABCL on board :-) ) 23:19:12 p_l: why not linj itself? 23:19:56 i gues Somelauw wants to know what you guys dislike about Scheme or like about common lisp 23:19:58 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:29 Fare: Linj needs to get updated to support some of the Java 1.5 stuff, also it means going through java compiler still. Direct approach should allow to generate code on device :) 23:20:47 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:07 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21:08 is there a compiler on the device (by default) ? 23:21:33 and/or can you generate class files then load them? 23:21:35 So what common-lisp implementation is cross-platform, has the most features, is easiest to learn and the most popular? 23:21:43 Fare: no, there's only an optimizer. But you can load class fils at runtime 23:22:00 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:19 Somelauw, depends which platforms you're talking about. SBCL is pretty popular amongst hackers. But CCL has better Windows and Mac support. 23:22:29 clisp is very portable. 23:22:40 but lacking in other ways. 23:22:55 I am on ubuntu 64 bit. 23:23:10 ECL also tries to be super-portable, but might not be the best for debugging. 23:23:11 So, it should be a native x-86 compiler. 23:23:15 they all have issues. 23:23:23 I'd say SBCL, in your case. 23:23:25 So, it should NOT be a native x-86 compiler. 23:23:37 what? should or should not? 23:23:59 Somelauw: in your case, SBCL is easiest and most supported 23:24:04 should NOT becuase I am using 74-bit 23:24:07 (CCL being a close second, I think) 23:24:07 64-bit 23:24:08 doesn't ubuntu have both amd64 and x86 libraries? 23:24:24 Somelauw: SBCL is available for both x86 and amd64 23:25:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:25:28 (so is CCL) 23:25:55 for free software native code compilers on x86(64), SBCL and CCL seem to be the more obvious choice 23:26:06 Fare: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1001944/android-remote-code-loading/2450049#2450049 <--- concerning loading Dex files at runtime. 23:26:27 Fare: then if I bundle the compiler and linker I can generate dex files at runtime and load them :) 23:27:30 why must it be a native code compiler, again? 23:28:17 pkhuong_, it doesn't have to be. It should just support 64-bit systems because otherwise it won't run. 23:29:00 pretty much all maintained CL implementations run on x86-64 these days. Except maybe CMUCL. 23:29:34 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:10 Somelauw: I have both 32 and 64 bit libraries on debian, by default. I would be surprised if it was different with ubuntu. 23:30:36 yeah. SBCL, CCL, ACL, LW and ECL all support amd64 (though ACL and LW would require hefty price afaik) 23:30:46 can't forget SCL. 23:30:56 cowhm [~cowhm@144.sub-97-155-133.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:36 true 23:31:56 (The whole line looks like an alphabet soup xD) 23:32:00 pkhuong_, I wasn't able to install gnu-scheme on ubuntu for some reason. 23:34:51 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.49] has joined #lisp 23:35:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.73] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:38 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:38:33 Fare: i think the canonical first app is a blog for web apps, and a twitter client for everything else, right? 23:38:43 :D 23:40:47 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:41:01 ... 23:41:44 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 23:42:10 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:48 steven_t, what about you take an existing blog and add recaptcha support? 23:44:48 -!- pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:45:20 is there already some cl library for recaptcha ? 23:45:23 yes 23:45:43 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:47:24 Fare: check http://github.com/madnificent/cl-recaptcha 23:47:50 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:20 i jsut don't get this lucid,kcl, akcl business 23:48:41 i think i got to some ancient code here 23:48:42 lol 23:48:45 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:49:41 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.67.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:10 homie: KCL beget Ibuki, EcoLisp and GNU Common Lisp, EcoLisp beget ECL, don't remember where AKCL fit into that 23:51:44 i didnt know CL was so widespread in use.. i didnt know any blogs were written in it 23:51:55 i should write a blog in qbasic one of these days :) 23:52:19 steven_t: we all write our own blogging system :) 23:52:26 Does SBCL have a function like trace in prolog? 23:52:26 in CL? 23:52:35 or in general? 23:52:54 steven_t: I think many of us have some hacked up thing they call a blog, written in CL 23:54:01 heh.. when i started learning python a few months ago i did the same thing in django at degutis.org... then i learned ruby a month ago and hadnt had time to write a blog in it before i found CL 23:54:01 I did.. at least 23:54:27 sandor [~sandorm@53.7.broadband16.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:58:24 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 23:58:38 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:59:11 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 23:59:13 lemonodor [~lemonodor@144.198.182.10] has joined #lisp 23:59:39 chapter_29 [~Adium@manz-d933eb1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:44 Somelauw: no, but there is a trace in CL, and you could use package introspection to trace everything in sight.