00:02:27 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:19 <_3b> try with #.*compile-file-pathname* 00:03:20 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:31 ok, will do 00:04:52 thanks all 00:05:05 Adlai`` [~adlai@bzq-109-66-4-45.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:39 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:09:21 -!- bobrown [~user@static-72-89-161-74.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:10:29 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:38 MeshGear [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has joined #lisp 00:11:35 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 00:11:45 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:35 pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:08 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:14 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:24 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 00:19:45 !hyperspec 00:20:06 -!- dreish_ [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:06 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h86n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:21:39 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 00:22:18 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:07 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:07 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B84A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:34:24 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:36 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: bed] 00:36:11 mhd [~mhd@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:39 ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:56 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:13 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: time for school] 00:55:40 _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has joined #lisp 01:07:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:32 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-C6F5E19D.bos-static.gis.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:32 -!- mhd [~mhd@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:15:39 fielcabral [~user@99-72-63-115.lightspeed.ftldfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:09 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 -!- az [~az@2a01:4f8:101:4a2::9c00] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:23:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:39 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:39 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:41 abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:43 -!- fielcabral [~user@99-72-63-115.lightspeed.ftldfl.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 01:31:02 abugosh1 [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:37:53 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 01:39:01 -!- jvia [~via@ip98-176-221-44.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:06 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.180.19] has joined #lisp 01:47:39 -!- gko [~gko@111.82.108.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:03 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:37 does anyone actually use series? 01:49:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:50:49 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A5391.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:55:57 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:31 -!- Edward [edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-75-147.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:02:05 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rzybbbsfplsnapzc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:04:04 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rytzfhgzszuontvr] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-40-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:16 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-41-127.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:40 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:11:51 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:13:16 syamajala: I do sometimes. 02:13:36 i was just browsing the manual it looks interesting. 02:16:56 I once did a fairly large project using series for a large part of it. Worked out ok. 02:20:50 -!- YellowSea3 [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 02:26:31 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:31 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:32:43 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:56 -!- ojuice [ojuice@209.164.37.111.static.sna.hosting.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 02:34:21 (defun foo (n) (lambda (i) (incf n i))) <- Er uh how would you actually go about doing something with the function returned here..? 02:34:25 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:34:41 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:50 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:03 (funcall (foo 4)) 02:35:14 Oops. (funcall (foo 4) 1) 02:35:19 -!- abugosh1 [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:00 Oh there we go. Thanks. 02:36:48 I was trying to use apply. Derp. 02:37:09 (apply (foo 4) '(1)) 02:37:30 And please don't make animal noises. 02:37:32 eihrul [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:02 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has left #lisp 02:38:11 Hmm. But 4 is not a place for incf. Is this supposed to work? 02:38:31 Wait so with apply why does (1) need to be quoted..? 02:38:43 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 02:38:59 clhs: apply 02:38:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 02:39:04 It should probably be (incf i n) 02:41:09 ... Wait nevermind. I misread the funcall one as have 1 in parentheses too for some reason. 02:42:51 n is the place. 02:43:05 (1) would be trying to call a function named 1 (which is impossible because that's not a valid function name?) 02:44:00 It needs to be quoted because we need to supply a list, and without quoting it would be evaluated, yes. 02:44:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:44:14 -!- beach` is now known as beach 02:44:19 Oh, right. 02:44:31 Good morning everyone! 02:45:08 top of the mornin' to you beach 02:45:42 Went to bed too early. 02:46:06 Morning, beach. 02:46:26 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:02 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:08 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 02:48:09 lispm [~lispm@g224047195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:48:31 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:53 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224047195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:49 demopig_ [~demopig@unaffiliated/demopig] has joined #lisp 02:50:15 -!- demopig [~phear@unaffiliated/demopig] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:52:50 -!- demopig_ is now known as demopig 02:53:15 -!- goner [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/goner] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:58:51 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:01:24 i missed gigamonkey? 03:01:38 meant to tell him i switched to his book from ACL (which was confusing me) 03:01:41 and thus thanks 03:01:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:07 steven_t: lovely. 03:02:11 good choice! 03:02:24 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 03:02:47 so far im agreeing 03:05:25 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:39 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 03:07:38 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 03:10:42 ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:58 -!- MeshGear [~Mesh@216.201.34.14] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 03:16:49 :) 03:17:57 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 03:23:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:25:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:28:35 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:13 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 03:39:56 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:41:59 good morning 03:42:01 -!- ost` is now known as ost 03:43:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:16 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:08 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 03:47:41 hello ost 03:48:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:02 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.172.158] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:51:44 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-217-97.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:52:09 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-217-97.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:57:08 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:13 jvia [~via@ip98-176-221-44.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:50 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.122] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:01:20 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.51] has joined #lisp 04:02:05 -!- fusp [~khaled@41.104.109.171] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:02:50 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-188.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:49 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-180-79.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-10.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:56 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-188.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:17 beach: How's it going? 04:27:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:11 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:41 demopig: Not bad. I am working on SICL today. What about you? 04:34:34 beach: Just reading PCL. 04:35:04 demopig: Are you making good progress? 04:36:25 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.180.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:28 beach: The first/second chapters are fairly basic so far, but I'm sure I'll run into surprising things once I reach the third. 04:38:46 I've glossed at chapter 19 and 21. 04:38:57 I forget what they are about. 04:39:20 They deal with exception handling conditions and restarts, and packages :) 04:39:30 That's pretty advanced stuff. 04:39:53 Yeah, I was just mostly interested after discussing them with someone. 04:40:51 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.169] has joined #lisp 04:41:11 demopig: If you already program in some other language, you might want to read what Kent Pitman wrote about the condition system and why it is designed the way it is. After reading that, I was convinced that Common Lisp is one of the few languages that get it right. 04:42:49 Yeah, I have www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html bookmarked from yesterday. 04:42:56 OK, good. 04:43:32 I'll take a better look once I get into the nitty gritty. 04:44:15 There are a couple of papers he wrote that seem worth going through. 04:45:26 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.169] has quit [Client Quit] 04:46:11 The main point of the article is that condition handling is a dialog between an item that detects a problem, but doesn't know what to do about it, and an item that can't detect the problem, but knows what to do if it happens. Intermediate items don't know either. Most exception systems get it wrong by turning the dialog into a one-way communication between the first and the second item. 04:47:32 Hmm, interesting 04:47:57 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:31 Well, I'll read it and let you know my thoughts on it all when I'm ready to learn about conditions properly. 04:50:45 Sure. 04:50:55 Thanks :) 04:51:10 demopig: Do you already know any other programming languages? 04:51:30 beach: I know C, some x86/asm. 04:51:41 Learning Ruby as well as CL. 04:51:47 Hmm, OK. Condition handling might not make much sense to you then. 04:52:21 But I guess you can compare it with Ruby. 04:53:34 Good morning 04:53:43 hello peterhil 04:55:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbzfvnkqcccekfti] has joined #lisp 04:56:24 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:56:51 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:41 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58:58 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:18 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:03:33 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 05:04:08 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e18dc-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 05:04:16 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 05:09:03 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:26 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:18:14 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-acibreylftjleden] has joined #lisp 05:18:38 -!- ry509 [~user@c-67-161-213-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:27:56 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:33:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:58 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:35:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:36:21 Can someone help me interpret the CLHS entry for nsublis, please. First it says that it modifies relevant parts of the tree, and later that it "may" modify the tree. I interpret the first phrase to mean an obligation to modify, and the second one as if modifying were optional. Any opinions? 05:39:30 beach: first it says that it _does_, then it says that it's "permitted" to, then the notes say that it "may" 05:40:33 beach: what do the other nfoo functions say? 05:40:59 beach: I think there is no obligation, so it "may" 05:41:06 sykopomp: It depends. For instance, nconc must modify, some other are not required to. 05:42:14 weird, why would they choose to let implementations choose in a case like this? 05:42:15 OliverUv, memo from beach: I have no objections to what you wrote. 05:42:24 OK, next question: Should a docstring say what the CLHS requires or what the implementation actually does? I guess if it is implementation dependent, it should say so. 05:42:24 ah, great 05:43:34 I would specify the specific behaviour, so people can at least easily see what your implementation does 05:43:49 I suppose the docstring should encourage the programmer to write portable code, so it should be conservative. 05:44:12 OliverUv: But then indicate that this is implementation-specific behavior. 05:46:57 Mm, yeah, that is probably the best idea. 05:47:50 OK, now make that portable!!! One module of SICL is just a bunch of docstrings. If each one must be customized to a particular implementation, that can get complicated. 05:47:59 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:59 I guess your docstring might also act a bit like your API specification, so by saying 'may' you could leave yourself the freedom to change the implementation 05:48:52 Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:49:46 OliverUv: Ideally, it should say both, for those who *want* to exploit implementation-specific behavior, and this is particularly the case when the spec says it is implementation-defined. But both pieces of information should be present. The problem is that I am writing this for unknown implementations, so I need to parameterize it. But how? 05:50:56 Maybe (defparameter *nsublis-behavior* :always-modifies). 05:51:14 ldunn [~user@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:51:58 Hmm, I shall have to give that one some thought. 05:53:02 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has left #lisp 05:53:17 ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has joined #lisp 05:53:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has left #lisp 05:56:49 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:57:23 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:57:49 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-77.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-10.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:10 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.97] has joined #lisp 06:01:34 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:02:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:54 Hmm, sublis requires the original tree to be returned if no substitutions are made, but subst just "may" do that. 06:03:59 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:05:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:52 For nsubst, the original tree *is* modified. 06:08:21 Some minor inconsistencies here. 06:09:40 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-199.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:09:43 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:09:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:36 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 06:12:02 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-255.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:12:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:14:01 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau`` 06:14:22 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau``` 06:18:37 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 06:23:25 Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.106] has joined #lisp 06:23:32 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-199.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:24:24 Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-65-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:28:49 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:01 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-57-39.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 06:29:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-57-39.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 06:29:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:35:05 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:35:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:36:08 good morning 06:47:53 hello mvilleneuve 06:48:01 mvilleneuve: No vacation? 06:50:57 beach: yes, in two weeks 06:51:12 mvilleneuve: How much time are you taking off? 06:52:11 beach: probably two weeks, or a bit shorter than that 06:52:18 -!- demopig [~demopig@unaffiliated/demopig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:50 beach: we will be moving the office to a new location (downtown Pessac) at the end of the month 06:53:06 Oh nice? What's the reason? 06:54:26 beach: we had a nice opportunity to get more space at a reasonable price, which is good since we intend to hire very soon 06:54:40 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:54:48 Nice! I'll come visit more often then :) 06:54:49 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-278972d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:55:46 beach: that would be nice! 06:56:24 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440513.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [K-Lined] 06:56:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-134-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:32 beach: do you know if enough lispers are around Bordeaux to organize a dinner one of these next few days days? 06:57:11 I don't know. You would have to check. 06:59:19 I could show you CLIM 3 then :) 06:59:28 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-77.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:16 -!- jvia [~via@ip98-176-221-44.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:40 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:50 How do I check for empty string? 07:00:57 -!- ASau is now known as ASau` 07:01:15 (equal string "") or (zerop (length string)) 07:01:16 Just (equal "" str) or is there some predicate? 07:02:33 demopig [~demopig@unaffiliated/demopig] has joined #lisp 07:03:46 no 07:03:59 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:01 sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:05:28 beach: ah yes, a CLIM3 demo would be great! 07:05:28 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:05:47 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:07:46 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:08:12 ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:13:37 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:15:16 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:40 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:38 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 07:23:33 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 07:24:42 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:26:31 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:28:04 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 07:28:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:52 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:40 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:29 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 07:33:43 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:35:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:35:09 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:16 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 07:36:59 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 07:37:00 The CLHS page for subst-if says that predicate is a "symbol naming a function or a function..." How is that different from a function designator? 07:37:56 Well, function designators can be lists, can't they? 07:38:03 function designators includes (setf symbol) 07:38:55 -!- sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:57 actually, no 07:38:58 sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:39:02 that's extended function designators 07:39:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:39:48 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@141.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:40:31 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d6ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:09 Zhivago: I don't think so. 07:44:53 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-278972d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 07:44:56 Ah, they have some moronic difference between 'function name' and 'function designator' there. 07:46:22 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 07:47:02 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:49:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:49:06 Zhivago: It wouldn't be reasonable if they meant the same thing, because a function can designate itself, but it would not be reasonable to consider a function to be a function name. 07:49:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:49:53 Zhivago: It might have been reasonable to say that a function designator is either a function or a function name. 07:50:14 beach: that's what extended function designators are 07:50:21 I don't see why a function can't be a name for itself. 07:50:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:50:25 stassats: Ah, OK. 07:50:29 Works for the number 10, after all. 07:53:16 That's not covered by the definition of `name' in the CLHS. 07:54:19 Which is why they invented the term designator instead. 07:56:19 Anyway, so I guess what they are saying for subst-if is just another way of saying `function designator'. 07:58:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:59:59 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:01:50 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-229.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:02 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-16.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:07:05 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 08:10:02 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:31 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12:08 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 08:13:22 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:14:44 vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has joined #lisp 08:15:10 az [~az@2a01:4f8:101:4a2::9c00] has joined #lisp 08:15:11 -!- legumbre 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has joined #lisp 08:52:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-41-146.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 08:53:12 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:55:49 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:56:39 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:07:15 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F0B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:12 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:09:36 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:09:50 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:09:50 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:09:50 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 09:10:40 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BE1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:13:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:14 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 09:14:35 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:16:36 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has joined #lisp 09:16:42 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:18 Edward [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-204.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:18:55 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 09:19:54 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:21:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-41-146.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:22:29 gzip4_ [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 09:22:32 ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:22 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:31 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:59 -!- sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: sellout] 09:25:26 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:58 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:51 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:30:38 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:41 What is causing this: unable to avoid inline argument range check because the argument range (SINGLE-FLOAT) was not within 2^63 09:35:10 And what are you doing with that float? 09:37:33 Zhivago, I don't know. It is part of ltk. 09:38:05 so why do you care? 09:38:30 stassats, I need to use ltk. 09:38:57 that's not answering my question 09:40:10 maybe he wants to hack ltk to be optimal 09:40:20 "the compiler was unable to perform something it thinks might possibly have been an optimization, had the code been different from what it is" 09:40:24 That is why I care. 09:40:34 I need to use ltk. 09:40:51 Meaning basically nothing unless you know what you're optimizing for, and it doesn't sound to me like you are trying to optimize anything. 09:40:55 lat: does this message prevent you from using it? 09:41:49 stassats, yes. It won't compile/load. 09:42:05 lichtblau: commonqt question, i can't understand how to use qvariants on integers, is it possible at all currently? 09:42:43 Perhaps the file got corrupted somehow, and ltk needs to be reinstalled. 09:42:50 lat: are you sure that the compilation failure is caused by that warning ? 09:43:45 It worked yesterday fine. 09:43:48 stassats: what exactly are you trying to do? 09:44:23 lichtblau: (#_toInt (#_new QVariant 25)) => 0 09:44:41 fe[nl]ix, no, but that is the only warning given. 09:45:02 i think it selects not QVariant ( int val ) constructor, but QVariant ( Type type ): http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/qvariant.html 09:45:12 it's _not_ a warning, it's a compiler note. 09:45:13 since (#_type (#_new QVariant 25)) => # 09:45:44 lat: remove fasls and retry 09:46:27 can i somehow influence what method is selected? 09:46:34 lichtblau: do you have a write-ddl.lisp in your perec repo? seems like it's accidentally not added... 09:47:04 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:09 lichtblau: also, if you have patches that are not pushed to the knowledgetools repos, then i'd very much welcome if you pushed them 09:48:13 attila_lendvai: oh, that is rather unfortunate. 09:48:34 I'll have to dig up the correct version first, since there have been changes to that file since then. 09:49:38 lichtblau: we've started to merge and review the changes and then pushing them to the official. it's time to clean up the bitrot around dwim.hu 09:49:58 Cool to hear that you're intested in merging stuff. I've held back various patches in part because I haven't written tests for them yet... 09:50:33 (More precisely, I have tested them, but only through higher-level tests in our application code, not perec-level tests in that sense.) 09:51:04 lichtblau: don't worry about tests. they are very much useful, but if there's a new functionality without tests then it's ok to push it (with a note somewhere that tests are needed) 09:51:57 ... and there's some stuff that is obviously not the Right Thing, but was a quick way out for us, with a better solution still pending. 09:52:39 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:53:24 fe[nl]ix, now I get: failed to find the TRUENAME of ltk.lisp: No such file or directory 09:54:58 -!- pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:55:27 For example, Oracle's schema introspection features are so enormously slow that I had no choice but to add caching around those function in order to make export-to-rdbms not take many, many minutes. 09:56:00 But I think the right solution isn't to cache at that level. Instead, export-to-rdbms should be rewritten using a "fetch current schema once, make a plan on which changes to do, and only then execute those changes" strategy, and that's a more intrusive change than I was comfortable with. 09:56:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:49 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:56 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 09:59:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:59:54 lichtblau: ok, we'll keep that in mind 10:00:23 we should also fool around a bit with the oracle backend to see all these trouble first hand 10:03:07 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:04:45 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has joined #lisp 10:05:34 lichtblau: (#_toInt (#_new QVariant :|int| 20000)) => 20000 solved it 10:05:36 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:36 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:39 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-68-33.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:06:45 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 10:06:57 *stassats* is much more happy now 10:07:09 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-229.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:14 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:12:23 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has joined #lisp 10:13:19 stassats: ah, I'm glad that it works for you. The default overload resolution could certainly be better. 10:13:42 MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has joined #lisp 10:13:51 How did you find out? I don't see an explanation of the fixed arg types thing in my own documentation... 10:15:05 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:15:12 greetings, gentlemen. is OOP the main way to write in clisp? 10:15:44 lichtblau, I don't fully understand what did cause the slowdown in export-to-rdbms 10:16:09 it supposed to rely on computed-class and compute stuff only once after each change 10:16:23 and as a side effect update the database accordingly 10:16:25 lichtblau: i macroexpanded it and saw types variable, and went from there 10:17:13 *stassats* traded mcclim for commonqt 10:17:51 levente_meszaros: for example, IIRC, it's faster to ask oracle for all tables and colums in one go than to ask for each table in turn. 10:19:13 omg, I hope it's different for ordinary tables :) 10:20:03 yeah, I'm guessing that the introspective stuff are technically views with a complex definition or something like that. 10:20:18 As opposed to pg_* views, which are very fast. 10:20:47 Also, I have worked to separate the concepts of DB user and DB schema a bit. We must be able to run a server than can only select/update/insert its tables, but cannot make DDL changes. To do that, prc needs to connect as an unprivileged user, then change the default schema name to the schema/user who created the tables. 10:21:16 lichtblau: I believe the pg_* ones count as materialized views, if even that (: 10:21:38 What that means for export-to-rdbms is that it is no longer sufficient to look at USER_TABLES, because that doesn't have all tables _visible_ to the current user, it has only tables _owned_ by the current user. 10:21:39 they may be the actual on-disk tables used by the database system itself (: 10:22:18 Instead we need to look at ALL_TABLES, and that is significantly slower than ever USER_TABLES, perhaps simply because there is various predefined stuff in it. 10:25:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:26:03 I see 10:33:18 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:46 sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:37:48 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:06 gentlemen, can you please talk to a new person in the world of Lisp? 10:38:45 MagBo: Sure, what do you want to know? 10:38:55 greetings, gentlemen. is OOP the main way to write in clisp? 10:39:06 MagBo, no 10:39:22 MagBo: Notice that CLISP is an implementation of the Common Lisp language. 10:39:49 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:39:49 MagBo: Yes :) 10:40:08 kebomix [~ahmed@196.202.112.167] has joined #lisp 10:40:31 lichtblau: so, what's the situation of the knowledgetools repos then? can you push all the cahnges you have whether having tests or not, etc? 10:40:49 hello , i started learning lisp today and i'm reading Practical Common Lisp by Peter Seibel  is it good to start ? 10:41:09 uhm. so first of all - common lisp is multiparadigm yet it can be used as the haskell is 10:41:09 lichtblau: we're planning to merge by reviewing a big diff between your repos and ours... so, don't worry about so-so quality patches 10:41:16 kebomix: it's great 10:41:38 MagBo: Not really, because Common Lisp doesn't have Lazy evaluation. 10:41:41 lichtblau: also, if there's a KLUDGE note at each kludge then they are fine as long as they fail early when they fail 10:41:45 kebomix, lol you are not alone :D hwever i was going to start with OOprogramming with lisp 10:41:58 :D :D 10:41:58 kebomix: It is good if you already know how to program in some other languages. 10:42:03 MagBo: that's a wrong way to start 10:42:10 i already know prolog at college , and i want to learn lisp on my own 10:42:15 stassats, yep i felt it 10:42:17 if you're talking about Keene book 10:42:22 beach : yes i know C++ java php 10:42:22 minion: Keene? 10:42:23 Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 10:42:33 yes i do 10:42:38 kebomix: Then you should be fine with PCL. 10:42:54 MagBo: it's a great book, but you better read it after you've read PCL 10:43:06 ok 10:43:15 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 10:43:18 thanks guys :) 10:43:19 MagBo: And I would do PAIP in between 10:43:30 paip? 10:43:31 minion: tell MagBo about PAIP. 10:43:32 MagBo: have a look at PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 10:43:56 attila_lendvai: that is certainly one option. Although there must also be a good way to move commits from our git to our darcs in a one-by-one fashion... 10:44:10 ah i have seen that one in a store (: 10:44:22 and i've read the novel by Lisp creator 10:44:25 about robots 10:44:39 lichtblau: ahh, you have git mirrors and work in that? 10:45:00 :D and i wanted to learn Lisp anyway so i've decieded to start 10:47:40 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:47:48 aha Peter Norvig is the author of prolog book i learn from "Prolog Programming for AI " 10:48:01 learned * 10:48:13 well, what we have is a thirdparty directory checked in our application's git. The _darcs for prc and rdbms is part of that git repo, so that we can commit things into git and darcs at the same time. But I've been lazy about actually committing into _darcs, and need to work a bit on that backlog. 10:49:40 lichtblau, attila_lendvai I suggest concentrating on rdbms first and leave alone perec 10:49:50 lichtblau: we have a few pullallfoobar scripts to manage multiple repos. having this git/darcs duality is frightening at first sight... :) 10:49:55 MagBo, kebomix: PAIP is more a great programming book than an AI book. It uses lots of very commonly-used programming techniques some of which are unique to Common Lisp. 10:50:56 lichtblau: yeah, levy is right in that we should concentrate first on rdbms 10:51:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:19 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:37 aha 10:56:32 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:55 I'm using asdf 2.104. How can I upgrade to version 2.112? 10:56:59 magbo: Why do you care so much about OOP? 10:57:22 tcr [~tcr@175.144.177.199] has joined #lisp 10:58:37 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 10:59:44 demopig: You don't? 11:00:10 Am I interpreting this correctly if I'm reaching the conclusion that I can't specify which types the &rest parameters of a defmethod can have? 11:00:13 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 11:00:39 OliverUv: It is always a list. 11:00:51 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:05 OliverUv: dispatch is going only over required arguments 11:01:12 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:01:14 paremeters 11:01:20 eh 11:01:36 beach: yeah, but I was hoping to specify which elements could be part of the list 11:01:52 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:01 it doesn't really affect me, just want to have the type specifiers there when I can 11:02:38 Why is that? 11:02:46 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 11:02:58 I don't rightly know. 11:03:37 I'm going to do things to CLOS objects, and my functions will probably not work if I'm given the wrong sort of objects 11:03:53 it feels like I should use the typing facility when it is applicable 11:03:57 OliverUv: Then make them required arguments. 11:04:05 also, you're talking about type specifiers, but method dispatch is done on classes 11:05:42 if you want to ensure types, then it doesn't matter whether you're using methods, or functions, or whatever 11:06:06 you can do something like (assert (every #'stringp rest)) 11:06:25 oh yeah 11:07:04 thanks 11:07:33 beach: Hmm, I'd like to learn new things, but in my experience OOP isn't a reason to spend several thousand hours mastering a language for. 11:07:53 OliverUv: also note CHECK-TYPE 11:08:08 beach: I haven't needed OOP in the languages I've used in the past, with the exception of Ruby that has everything as an object. 11:08:17 beach: Do you see where I'm coming from? 11:08:19 demopig: That's probably because you have never seen the power of OOP, given the languages that you said you know. 11:08:42 beach: Could you elaborate on that power? 11:08:57 demopig: You should read Paul Grahams article about the BLOOP (I think it was called) paradox. 11:09:33 so from what i understood by this book , lisp has diffrent implementation , like C for example, there is Borland , Microsfot , GCC complilers, but ANSI code will run on all of them , well this book is kinda old it is published in 2005 ! , may be there is alot of updates, i want to know which implementation to use and what editor ? 11:09:45 demopig: It essentially states that you can't understand the power of a mechanism you have never used, and therefore, it is hard to admit that there are languages that are more powerful that those you already know. 11:10:11 *stassats* is making a database application currently, i can't imagine doing it without CLOS and MOP 11:10:16 beach: Blub paradox? 11:10:25 Probably, yes. 11:10:40 demopig: A Fortran programmer would not see the purpose of dynamic memory allocation, or pointers. 11:10:53 demopig: But to a C programmer, the use is obvious. 11:11:00 -!- ost` is now known as ost 11:11:06 beach: Oh, I admit that there are more powerful languages. It's allowed me to hope to evolve. 11:11:21 beach: Perhaps I don't understand the power or the details of the mechanisms used. 11:11:33 any idea ? 11:11:44 Which is why I was asking magbo why it was so important to him. 11:11:53 I see. 11:11:55 kebomix: use SBCL and Slime 11:12:24 beach: Does that make sense? :) 11:12:42 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:12:44 demopig: When you are programming, you are creating abstractions. Which kind of abstractions you are able to create is dictated by your means of dividing up a problem. The means available to you are dictated by your means of putting parts together again. OOP is a good set of tools for creating abstractions so that one part of a program does not need to worry about other parts of a program, through explicit defining of interfaces. 11:12:46 ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:55 it's hard to see the value of something you don't understand 11:13:05 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:13:12 stassats : thanks 11:13:19 demopig: Sure, but what usually happens when one tries to explain such things is that the reaction is something like "oh but I can do that by using this other way in " 11:13:29 and it's too easy to hide a no true scotsman under blub. 11:14:23 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 11:14:37 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:20 beach: Hmm, I won't want to come off like one that ignores technologies that he doesn't understand, and debunks their usefulness out of arrogance. 11:15:43 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:54 beach: I try to take a Shoshin approach to such things 11:16:16 demopig: Sure. I am just explaining why it is hard to explain the usefulness of a technology to someone who doesn't already know it. 11:16:24 Fair enough 11:17:24 stassats: any link for slime ? 11:17:30 minion: slime? 11:17:31 slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 11:17:39 aha 11:17:41 demopig: But what OliverUv said was reasonable, even though it probably won't give very much insight to someone who doesn't already know what OOP is about. 11:17:58 beach: I suppose. 11:18:17 I guess I understand a bit, from what I've learned of Ruby so far. 11:19:14 i wasn't a fan of OOP until i learned CLOS 11:19:31 and with MOP it became even more useful 11:19:49 But, I haven't really gotten very far. I understand that you can produce instances of a template to provide abstractions which can stem their own details that an implementation needen't worry about the details of, but can instead just simply utilize them. 11:20:09 *beach* agrees with stassats. He didn't understand until reading the CLIM spec. 11:20:13 BUt, I could be correct about this. 11:20:19 s/correct/incorrect 11:21:27 :\ 11:22:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@175.144.177.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:56 demopig: Here is one instance of the usefulness of OOP. In non-OO, if you implement a function that does something different for objects of different types, you have to use some kind of switch on the type. Now if you add a new type, you have to edit the source code of all such functions. OOP allows you to spread the implementation of that function over several modules, so you can add a partial implementation for a new kind of obj 11:22:56 that you want to support, without editing existing code. 11:24:42 demopig: That possibility allows a vendor to ship a library that the end-user can extend without having access to the source code. But, it is also a sound way of structuring the code, so that you don't run the risk of breaking modules that have been tested, even if source code is available. 11:25:57 -!- Edward [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-204.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 11:27:55 I can see the benefits of this :) 11:28:10 Good! 11:29:20 -!- Hraban [Hraban@94-226-250-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 11:30:56 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:31:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:33:40 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:34:15 Thanks 11:34:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:31 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:38:50 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.46] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.215] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- 94SAAC3YQ [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:38:50 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:40:13 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:13 spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:35 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:40:55 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 11:41:04 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 11:41:05 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.215] has joined #lisp 11:42:46 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:43:02 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 11:45:40 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:31 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:35 tcr [~tcr@175.144.177.199] has joined #lisp 11:49:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:42 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D058.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:29 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:01 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:02 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-51.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:54:06 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:54:09 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-68-33.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:34 -!- kebomix [~ahmed@196.202.112.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:33 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:58:57 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:36 revel0_ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:59:54 -!- ost` is now known as ost 11:59:58 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:28 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:19 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:18 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:11:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:11:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@175.144.177.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:09 attila_lendvai: hi, david has updated the darcs repo from our git repo which i published now 12:13:09 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:13:27 hlavaty, lichtblau: thanks! 12:14:05 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:17:04 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:17:49 jmbr [~jmbr@26.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:19:42 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:49 hi 12:22:17 Xin Chāo Fare! 12:22:43 beach, bonjour 12:22:50 kwa29? 12:23:27 Not much! And you? 12:23:39 -!- revel0_ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:26 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:29:04 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-acibreylftjleden] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:11 revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:32:28 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kdwhcfdntgjcukto] has joined #lisp 12:35:16 *boggle* 12:35:33 beach: foogler. 12:35:52 helping stelian a bit with libfixposix 12:36:19 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:01 -!- revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:34 revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:38:30 -!- revel0_ is now known as revel0 12:39:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:25 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:42:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:43:09 -!- benny` is now known as benny 12:43:11 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 12:45:34 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:10 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:18 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:40 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:31 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbzfvnkqcccekfti] has left #lisp 13:01:54 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:02:22 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest43966 13:03:36 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 attila_lendvai: hi, the perec repo is updated too now 13:04:07 hlavaty: thanks! 13:07:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:22 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 13:09:46 BTW, there appears to be some support for subselects in perec, in the sense that perec attempts to compile nested PRC:SELECT into SQL subselects. 13:10:04 It doesn't work very well though in the cases that I've tried. What is your feeling regarding this feature? Is there much work to be done to fix it? 13:10:54 it is not working, only accidentally 13:11:09 IIRC outer query variables are not visible inside, etc. 13:11:33 perec itself generates SQL subselects but that is a different thing 13:11:39 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:12:10 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has joined #lisp 13:12:33 -!- Guest43966 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:12:53 tomi knows more about that, you could write to the ML and ask for the specific stuff you need 13:13:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:37 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:55 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:24 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:14:30 okay, thanks 13:15:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:15:09 I need either working subselects and/or left joins. 13:17:31 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:39 -!- gzip4_ [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:59 hlavaty, lichtblau: would you please join #dwim.hu so that we don't make a noise here? 13:21:57 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:21 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:37 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:24:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:32:59 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:33:47 Komi [Komi@83.231.82.203] has joined #lisp 13:35:49 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:36:16 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:36:36 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:36:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:55 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:02 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:33 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:44 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.154.229] has joined #lisp 13:37:55 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:41:50 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:44 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.154.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:43:49 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.159.47] has joined #lisp 13:43:56 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:44:17 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:44:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:43 demopig_ [~demopig@unaffiliated/demopig] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 plediii [~plediii@99.185.121.53] has joined #lisp 13:46:13 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has joined #lisp 13:46:37 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:50 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.159.47] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:05 Hraban [~Hraban@94-226-250-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:53:09 -!- demopig_ [~demopig@unaffiliated/demopig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:53 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kdwhcfdntgjcukto] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:10 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:56:40 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.194.143] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:02:06 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.77.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:26 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:36 how do I lambda define a recursive function? 14:03:57 i can't figure out a way to have a function call itself if it doesn't have a name :\ 14:03:58 through Y combinator 14:04:09 hmm, haven't reached those yet :> 14:04:14 *Hraban* checks 14:04:34 if you're sane, you shouldn't use it 14:04:40 use labels instead 14:04:43 clhs labels 14:04:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 14:05:35 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725148.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 14:05:48 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:49 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:51 Hraban: like (labels ((recursive-function () (recursive-function))) #'recursive-function) 14:07:06 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 14:08:12 thanks, let's see what this looks like... 14:09:46 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:17 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 14:12:00 Hraban: the Y combinator is funnier. 14:12:30 but I don't get that one ;P 14:13:13 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:15:22 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-101-255.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:19:48 Hraban: you have to learn the Y combinator. It's nice. 14:19:59 clapautius [~me@188.26.172.137] has joined #lisp 14:20:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:21:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.194.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:03 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-203.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:56 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.194.143] has joined #lisp 14:23:29 the y combinator is a function that calls itself with itself as an argument? 14:23:46 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 14:24:04 WinAthas [~Athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:53 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.118.210] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 Hraban: more like it provides a fixed points that _other_ functions can use. 14:29:29 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:28 weirdo [~sthalik@c146-20.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 When using (declaim (optimize debug)), how does it work with which source files I put it in? 14:31:17 clhs declaim 14:31:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_declai.htm 14:31:45 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 also... 14:31:49 clhs proclaim 14:31:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_procla.htm 14:31:59 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest96129 14:32:37 OliverUv: it works at least in the current file 14:33:34 hm, didn't help me anything though 14:33:47 but I think I might have figured out what causes my bug independently 14:35:07 nyef: ping 14:35:52 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:29 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:29 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:02 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 14:43:47 \o/ it works! :D 14:44:16 Hraban: for some values of "it" 14:44:54 -!- Hraban changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.41, ABCL 0.21.0, GNU CLISP 2.49 14:44:58 wooops 14:45:13 :$ sorry! 14:45:17 -!- Hraban changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.41, ABCL 0.21.0, GNU CLISP 2.49 14:45:30 copied the address and forgot my prompt was still there :S 14:45:34 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:35 blandest [~user@109.166.142.166] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 -!- ionine_ [~ionine_@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 14:46:38 -!- Guest96129 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:47:18 ugh 14:47:35 the emacs commands dont seem to do anything like what Practical Common Lisp says they do 14:47:45 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 14:48:01 some slime commands were changed since then 14:48:15 C-x C-f does not save the file. C-c C-c does not recompile. 14:48:22 ugh. how long ago was this thing written? 14:48:24 *steven_t* sighs 14:48:31 C-x C-f never saved the file 14:48:37 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/lather-rinse-repeat-a-tour-of-the-repl.html 14:48:43 C-c C-c always recompiled 14:48:45 it says right in there, C-x C-f :'( 14:49:13 "In Emacs you can create a new file by typing C-x C-f" 14:49:18 steven_t, are you in the correct mode? 14:49:22 C-c C-c only shows me a "Interrupt from Emacs" in the split window 14:49:33 Fare: i did M-x slime, and i see CL-USER> 14:49:43 and all lisp commands work as expected 14:49:53 steven_t: clearly, you can't read 14:50:00 *steven_t* sighs 14:50:16 stassats: what did i presumably read incorrectly? 14:50:23 *steven_t* resists the urge to use the word "smartass" 14:50:25 you need to type C-c C-c in the file 14:50:45 stevent_t: that section is referring to using C-x C-f to open a new file with a name you give it, before you've entered any content....not to save the file after you've already entered content 14:51:30 reading it word by word should be easy 14:52:00 hmm 14:52:11 its ambiguous and confusing, even after ive read it like 5 times 14:52:15 thats the real problem 14:52:34 drink tea, meditate. 14:52:53 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 14:53:03 it's also Monday :) 14:53:11 yeah i think its the mondays 14:53:28 i finally get what the book and you guys are saying now 14:53:51 C-x C-f creates a new file.. i enter stuff into that file and then use C-c C-c to recompile it 14:54:04 now to read on to where it says how to save it and run it in the repl or something 14:54:10 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:29 aww C-c C-q is undefined :/ 14:54:57 steven_t: that is true, that one was changed indeed 14:55:12 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:29 but C-c C-z works beautifully :D 14:55:35 nowadays paredit is in vogue 14:55:39 stassats: do you happen to know offhand what it is now? 14:55:39 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:44 oh? 14:55:49 yeah! 14:55:55 minion: paredit? 14:55:56 paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 14:56:10 paredit is awesome. 14:56:28 steven_t: `C-c C-q' was removed some year or two ago.. use `C-c C-]' instead 14:56:48 ah 14:56:49 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 or C-RET at the REPL, which will close parenthesis and evaluate 14:58:24 steven_t: personally I never use `C-c C-z'.. I use the slime-selector, `C-c s r' 14:58:43 *steven_t* sighs.. 14:58:44 i use both 14:58:49 never intended to learn emacs in order to learn lisp 14:58:57 but i guess ive got no choice if i want to do it the Right Way (tm) 14:59:06 -!- abend [~alx@76.76.146.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59:26 steven_t: I also learned emacs while learning lisp.. and I'm glad I did 14:59:35 Emacs is not a requirement. Many people use other editors. 14:59:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59:42 well, you can forget about all key bindings and balance parenthesis on your own 14:59:53 it took me like a month to learn vim properly and ive gotten addicted to it 15:00:00 ive been using macvim for my ruby scripting ever since 15:00:10 *rtoym* balances parens on my own. With some help with highlight sexp mode. 15:00:41 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 15:00:51 steven_t: so, you don't have to make your life easier by learning how to better use your tools 15:01:08 no, i know its the smart thing to do 15:01:29 its like mikeash said: http://twitter.com/mikeash/status/20025958898 15:01:46 Has anyone done iPhone development with Lisp? 15:01:54 i dont think you can, can you? maybe with Nu.. 15:02:06 CCL ha sObjC bindings 15:02:07 steven_t: Don't let lack of emacs knowledge keep you from Lisp. 15:02:08 peterhil: i think Clozure might have/ are intending 15:02:23 ...has... 15:02:24 steven_t: There is the vim-plugin Slimv for lisp programming. It works for OS X 15:02:25 peterhil: http://www.clozure.com/iphone.html 15:02:44 stassats: Thanks, should have Googled :-) 15:03:28 stassats: that's weird, I thought Apple's TOS didn't allow compilers/interpreters for the iPhone 15:04:12 OliverUv: i don't see how that link contradicts it, though i don't know any details 15:04:15 i should probably stop using emacs in terminal 15:04:17 *steven_t* sighs 15:04:32 and you should stop sighing as well 15:04:34 I think they backed off to "you have to ask nicely" 15:04:53 or maybe i need to put Lisp down for a few days and read some emacs tutorials 15:04:59 (if you want to use a non-standard langauge on the iPhone) 15:05:01 stassats: if i stop sighing ill implode with this stress 15:05:08 Personally my money is on android. 15:05:14 Zhivago: yeah thats what i heard.. they will allow it on a case by case basis 15:05:15 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:25 steven: You could relax while learning how to spell "I'll". 15:05:28 iphone apps arent good for selling on your own.. only good for consulting work 15:05:47 Zhivago: yeah i remembver you banned me from ##c with your retarded pedantery and condescending attitude 15:06:09 Zhivago: so im just going to ignore your pedantery while remaining respectful 15:06:15 for all i know clozure may be not using lisp at all for iphone 15:06:24 I just got an idea for a small fun iPhone app, which should be very easy to do. 15:06:37 though they're porting ccl to ARM 15:06:37 all clozure's iphone apps are currently written in objective-c. 15:06:46 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 15:06:53 My neighbour actually hinted at doing a program of one thing. 15:06:58 Zhivago: yeah, same here. I've got an idea for a game I want to program in android, a pretty novel one too 15:07:07 steven: Please learn how to spell "pedantry", and then look up what it means. 15:07:17 Zhivago: precisely :) 15:07:17 rme: ok 15:07:21 rme: are there any intentions to do them in lisp? 15:07:46 doesn't the iphone license preclude writing apps in anything else than ObjC, as an attempt to foil Flash? 15:08:05 Fare: You just have to ask nicely. 15:08:19 Zhivago: you're a nice, helpful, smart person. but i dont deserve to be talked down to. 15:08:43 Well, I have other projects to do before that, but thank you all for the info. 15:09:34 steven_t, can you skip the ego talk? 15:09:42 From Apple's developer agreement: only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs 15:09:59 Fare: i dont even know how to respond to what you said.. its so ass backwards 15:10:23 *im* not the one talking ego, ok? in fact im trying to get back to working 15:10:24 bbl 15:10:26 steven_t: so, don't respond and keep the discussion on topic 15:10:27 *steven_t* sighs heavily 15:10:55 i dont know how the hell this conversation got so fucked up, but you guys are seriously being ridiculous right now. bbl. 15:11:25 jajclooz: So, if I do the bindings with SWIG, that should do? And of course have a Lisp implementation that works on ARM... 15:11:57 *Fare* /ignore steven_t!* ALL 15:12:13 oh come on. 15:12:15 seriously? 15:12:18 jajcloz: that's just more nonsense to allow arbitrary exclusion from their store.. it's not as if they're serious 15:12:31 peterhil, clisp works on ARM. so does ECL. 15:12:33 steven: Please learn how to spell "don't". 15:12:40 this is bullshit man, all i ever tried to do was talk about this lisp book and then Zhivago jumps down my throat with his condescending attitude, and suddenly im the bad guy? 15:12:43 Apple's big enough now that they think they don't have to worry about pissing off developers. I think the good ones will migrate to friendlier platforms, like Android. 15:12:48 look hes doing it again? see, proof! 15:12:50 *steven_t* sighs 15:13:04 Please learn how to spell "I'm" and look up condescending. 15:13:08 i dont know how i end up meeting such idiots on the internet 15:13:19 stassats: We will have to see. An ARM port of ccl is a pre-requisite, of course, and when that's working, I'm sure we'll experiment with iOS apps written in lisp. 15:13:20 Fare. Good to know. It really seems Apple is doing things unnessessarily hard for developers. 15:13:25 It's probably due to laziness. 15:14:00 god damn ive not been this stressed in months 15:14:01 -!- steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has left #lisp 15:14:30 way to go alienating somebody with poor grammar 15:14:46 skills 15:14:50 I'd love for us to port CCL to the Android, now that the ARM/Linux port is working okay. 15:15:07 jajcloz: CCL on ARM is news to me! 15:15:15 that does sound exciting. 15:15:34 steven_t: Calm down, take a deep breath or a long walk. Or just lay down, and do some relaxation exercise, by example focusing on breathing and then starting from the toes up to the head and think how relaxed each part of your body becomes.. 15:15:54 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:04 OliverUv: Zhivago's persnickety remarks were mostly about spelling, not grammar ;) 15:16:08 steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 It will be interesting to see if the shen kernel language makes it to android. 15:16:15 peterhil: he's not here -- scratch that. 15:16:21 OliverUv, one thing is having poor FOO skills, the other thing is being neurotic when being offered corrections about FOO. 15:16:24 It might be a nice target language. 15:16:27 We haven't really announced CCL/ARM yet, but it's not really a secret. It's open source. Close to an Alpha 15:16:30 look im sorry about causing a scene. i want to stay on topic just as much as you all do. 15:16:32 adeht: yeah ok 15:16:35 Zhivago: shen? 15:16:41 Zhivago: is that Qi's kernel language? 15:16:48 jajcloz: Alpha, the CPU? 15:16:51 sykopomp: Shen is Qi version 3, iirc. 15:16:56 alpha test, sorry 15:17:15 hi jajcloz :) 15:17:38 Zhivago, don't they have a shen for javascript or something? 15:17:44 Fare: I agree that he was overreacting strongly to it, but continuing to correct him in the same manner when it obviously agitates him isn't a skillful way to grow the "community" (yeah, I know there isn't one) 15:17:47 Fare: If so, unrelated. 15:17:59 OliverUv: let's talk about lisp more. 15:18:01 but anyway we are OT 15:18:03 haha 15:18:08 fe[nl]ix: hi, do I know you? I don't know many nicknames here 15:18:12 Demosthenes [~demo@m5a2336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 steven_t: the way to stay on-topic is to talk on-topic, even when someone else doesn't 15:18:50 jajcloz: we met at ECLM 15:18:57 understood 15:21:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:25:18 i've been doing some c# lately... 15:25:24 it isn't nearly half bad 15:26:32 It's kind of nice how popular languages keep on getting better. 15:27:01 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m5a2336d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:27:17 it's nice CL stays the same 15:27:22 well, it has a sucky type system, no macros, but at least it has lambdas 15:27:35 Zhivago: I can't tell if that's a jab at lisp or a sarcastic jab at C#. 15:27:36 In a few years there may be no point in using CL at all. :) 15:27:47 syko: Neither. 15:27:59 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 syko: It helps to keep my faith in humanity. 15:29:01 heh. Do you use CL for anything? 15:29:10 I do. 15:29:28 how come? 15:29:50 Mainly macros, I think. 15:30:04 Also it has a lot of useful junk in it. 15:30:18 why not use one of those schemes with similar junk in it, then? 15:30:31 you'd even get hygiene. 15:30:44 sykopomp: not Data Hygiene though ;0 15:30:51 syko: What are you gibbering about now? 15:31:17 Zhivago: ....that's a more aggressive response than I expected. 15:31:28 syko: I've used schemes, and they're nice, but you have to keep on learning all of the random extensions over and over to get anything done. 15:31:44 At least with CL it's horrible collection of useful junk is standardized. 15:31:53 its, even. 15:32:09 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 15:32:10 And why would I care about hygenic macros? 15:32:49 Why don't you? :) 15:33:22 Because it is largely irrelevant. 15:33:42 You can just pick unique names and be done with it. 15:33:43 some people don't seem to think so. 15:33:49 That's nice. 15:33:57 Well, you can do the same for dynamic scoping. 15:34:15 Indeed you can. 15:34:31 but I don't really agree that lexical scoping is irrelevant. 15:34:39 That's nice. 15:34:45 Why don't you? 15:35:24 sykopomp: it's about practical considerations.. with packages (data hygiene) it's no big deal if you don't use hygienic macros 15:35:25 because I think there's value in being able to read, statically, what's going to be bound to what. 15:35:29 it's a nice guarantee. 15:35:35 it's also nice to have closures. 15:37:09 So stick in a few declarations and rewrite some bindings as cells and off you go. 15:37:28 -!- vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:37:32 Zhivago: I should ask you what you're gibbering about now. 15:37:44 Lexical scoping, it seems. 15:37:57 no, you seem to be gibbering nonsense. 15:37:58 In any case, who was it that said that lexical scoping was irrelevant? 15:38:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:08 syko: Which part appear to be nonsense to you? 15:38:20 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-203.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:39:19 Zhivago: 'stick in a few declarations and rewrite some bindings as cells' 15:39:35 that said -- I brought up lexical scoping in comparison to macro hygiene. 15:39:57 syko: No. That was when you were saying that you like to be able to read, statically, what's going to be bound to what. 15:40:07 Which a few declarations will happily give you. 15:40:13 are most practical lisp programs written in a very functional style? 15:40:21 steven_t: no 15:40:21 i mean typically speaking 15:40:22 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-61-82-250-91-96.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:22 steven_t: no 15:40:23 And closures, which rewriting variables to cells will give you. 15:40:39 syko: I don't know why you're comparing lexical scoping to hygenic macros, though. 15:41:13 last time i was doing closures in c#, cell reintroduction caused Visual Studio to raise a warniing... 15:41:23 steven: Generally there is a preference toward fewer side-effects where convenient. 15:41:28 what coding style then is dominant in most CL apps, if not functional? 15:41:41 OOP? 15:41:45 Zhivago: ah 15:41:45 steven_t: mixed. 15:41:51 Well, a kind of hodge-podge, really. 15:42:11 fewer variable alterations are indeed common. 15:42:17 Lisp is a filthy language and that's one of its virtues. 15:42:19 but side-effects are everywhere. 15:42:22 hmm, just like my ruby code then :) 15:42:44 *steven_t* ducks 15:43:23 it's not uncommon to use iteration constructs, alter variables associated with CLOS objects, or rely on sequential processing for side-effecting the world. 15:44:25 that said, different lispers also have different styles. It's all about using the best tool for the task (it just so happens that CL usually provides the best tools, or some approximation) 15:45:15 hmm, once youve gone back to the REPL using C-c C-z, how do you get back to the file to edit it some more? 15:45:27 steven_t: I use `C-c s l' 15:45:35 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:59 steven_t: or, if `C-c C-z' splits the window, just `C-x o' 15:46:00 nnnuu [~user@softbank219001087104.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:15 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 15:46:16 ahhh that second one works perfectly :) 15:46:23 is this stuff i should be asking in #emacs? 15:46:37 steven_t: it's stuff you can read about in the emacs tutorial.. `C-h t' 15:46:46 sweet, thanks 15:47:44 blandest` [~user@109.166.142.166] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:49:04 Zhivago, hygienic macros are all about lexical scoping -- so that the "if" used in the macro refers to the binding of "if" at the time the macro is defined, not the binding of "if" at the time it is used. 15:49:39 -!- blandest [~user@109.166.142.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:17 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.82.203] has quit [] 15:51:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:51:43 Fare: Sure, but that wasn't part of what syko was talking about. 15:51:56 Zhivago: it was. 15:52:36 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:57 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-143-217.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:57 syko: Then you completely failed to demonstrate it. Your argument went "ok, hygenic macros are meh, but I likes my lexical scoping for its static analysis and its closures." 15:53:10 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:33 Zhivago: I think you misunderstood me. 15:53:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53:41 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:43 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:55 thanks to macro hygiene, you can give various types to macros and analyze macro-using code without expanding, etc. 15:54:15 syko: I can only read what you write. 15:54:24 I like the concept of macro hygiene -- I just don't really like the current hygienic macro systems. 15:54:39 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:41 or at least the ones I know about. I quite like just tearing apart s-expressions. 15:54:57 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:02 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:32 sykopomp, maybe what you need are more sensible pattern-matching techniques to be used for analyzing source code than the primitives offered by traditional hygienic macro systems. 15:55:47 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:54 Happily, you can implement such pattern matching yourself using hygienic macros 15:55:54 Fare: maybe. 15:55:58 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:55:58 sykopomp: and hygienic macros can do that. 15:56:17 see for instance ryan culpepper's phd work. 15:56:22 pkhuong_: hooray 15:56:28 I like the easy understandability of defmacro, combined with its practical non-problematicity ;) 15:56:36 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:39 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:04 adeht, I disagree about practical non-problematicity. defmacro is to macros what PHP is to web programming. 15:57:07 sykopomp: hygienic macros aren't syntax-rules. Syntax-case is perfectly procedural. 15:57:22 Fare: that's a silly comparison 15:57:29 nope it ain't. 15:57:39 I don't think lack of hygiene has ever bitten me. Maybe it's because I try to avoid massive macros... 15:57:52 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:04 *stassats* tries to avoid macors 15:58:11 same utter lack of basic scoping discipline, lack of decent library support, haphazard set of primitives, etc. 15:58:16 sykopomp: or because a lot of important symbols are protected from lexical shadowing. 15:58:17 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:58:19 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:46 pkhuong_: Haven't run into that either... 15:58:58 in a macro context, I mean. 15:59:09 It kind of reminds me of talking with C programmers about passing arrays. 15:59:10 I seem to have a bad habit of trying to name classes 'room' 15:59:57 Fare: I heard all these arguments before.. yet I stick by mine 16:01:04 sure. Plenty of people stick to PHP. PHP is plenty sufficient for them. 16:01:23 Fare: well, if defmacro is php to you, sure 16:01:39 sykopomp: obviously you haven't: you're protected from it! 16:01:58 pkhuong_: I'm not protected from the compiler yelling at me about it, am I? 16:02:02 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:02:12 Fare: I would argue that PHP is much more powerful than any existing macro system in the tools it provides. 16:02:58 I actually used eval() in PHP as a way to implement macros. 16:03:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:19 it's not every day that your macro system includes things such as http clients, object-orientation, and database access functions. 16:03:19 to me hygienic macros are the Kleenex that comes after mental masturbation 16:03:34 sykopomp, defmacro has all of that, too. 16:03:41 Fare: no it doesn't. 16:03:47 Fare: Common Lisp does :) 16:03:50 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 16:04:01 defmacro has.... lambda list destructuring. 16:04:25 and some fun metacircularity in being a macro, itself. 16:05:39 -!- nnnuu [~user@softbank219001087104.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:07:10 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:09:25 Hey, can I reliably do #'some-function and assume the correct method is used when some-function is defined in several method on different classes? 16:09:34 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:10:08 doing #'some-function will return a function, not a method 16:10:39 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:43 ah, it'll return the generic function implicitly built by the defmethod then I suppose? 16:10:47 and that function carries on dispatching to the right methods based on what arguments you pass to it 16:11:02 right, so I think this will work out then, thanks! 16:13:28 -!- _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16:05 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- plediii [~plediii@99.185.121.53] has quit [Quit: plediii] 16:18:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.194.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:03 Demosthenes [~demo@m272336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:34 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:57 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:23:04 revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:23:48 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 16:25:27 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 16:26:06 -!- revel0_ is now known as revel0 16:27:39 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:33 plediii [~plediii@m4d5336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:38 -!- plediii [~plediii@m4d5336d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:25 Zorry [~zorry@gentoo/developer/zorry] has joined #lisp 16:33:11 is there a way to get the asm files more -fPIC friendly ? at lest for x86_64? 16:33:37 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:37 he talks about sbcl ^ 16:34:08 -!- ASau``` is now known as ASau 16:38:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:56 is that "-fPIC friendly" as in "I'm working on making the SBCL binary relocatable" or as in "gentoo has started injecting silly flags into the SBCL build that aren't supposed to be there"? 16:40:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:41:06 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:48 lichtblau: on hardened gentoo we build most binery with -fPIE -pie and it fail to linke when code is not -fPIC friendly coded 16:42:19 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:44 ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 16:42:51 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:04 you've got a lot of work cut out for you if you want to make SBCL use a randomized location for its code. 16:44:03 Just making the C/asm part of the executable relocatable will be annoying enough, but then you also need to make the lisp heap relocatable too. 16:44:22 ...just compile without the extra flags. :) 16:46:19 revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:46:51 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:48:06 froydnj: i have a problem: i want to shorten names (strings) so that the short versions don't lead to conflicts. currently i calculate crc32 on the utf-8 bytes and append it to the name after cutting it to be within limits. but crc32 was not designed for this, so conflicts are surprisingly frequent... what would you do if you don't want to waste more than about 8 characters for the hash? 16:48:46 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 16:48:49 my first idea was to xor a part of the hash bytes before dropping it 16:48:54 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: reboot time] 16:48:57 attila_lendvai, oh, I had code to do something like that for our oracle schema (identifiers stripped to 31 chars) 16:49:26 attila_lendvai, take a md5sum or such, strip to 8 chars 16:49:29 Fare: same here, it's about RDBMS 16:49:40 use some 5 or 6 bit encoding 16:49:45 Fare: so, you just dropped the extra characters? 16:50:02 I "compressed" the name 16:50:06 -!- Zorry [~zorry@gentoo/developer/zorry] has left #lisp 16:50:31 oh, drop some bits per byte? i wonder if it's any different than a subseq 16:50:58 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 16:51:50 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:52:00 attila_lendvai, do you have an upper limit for the strings length? 16:52:27 nus: for the input? no. for the output? yes, that's the point 16:52:28 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 16:52:38 but the input is practically limited... 16:52:58 attila_lendvai, to what? 16:53:28 rdbms table names... say below 500 16:54:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m272336d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.5] has joined #lisp 16:56:22 *attila_lendvai* needs to leave 16:56:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:27 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:32 Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 16:57:46 -!- Davsebamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has left #lisp 16:58:20 -!- happycube [~cpage@ip72-194-211-225.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 16:58:40 cpage_ [~cpage@ip72-194-211-225.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 brown [~user@nat/google/x-myuakdhzwrcodsnz] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 -!- brown is now known as Guest26255 17:04:24 -!- revel0_ is now known as revel0 17:06:23 josemanuel [~josemanue@49.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:07:32 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:11:27 -!- Guest26255 is now known as reb 17:12:28 minion, memo for attila_lendvai: re strings contractions, what about using a PRNG with a period knowingly greater then the number of strings? though that would require keeping the seed around... 17:12:28 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 17:12:48 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has joined #lisp 17:13:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 17:14:08 oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:15:52 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:16 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 17:16:47 fatblueduck [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:42 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:21:49 silenius [~silenius@dslb-088-072-005-231.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:51 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:23:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.141] has quit 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[~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 -!- Guest27471 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 18:39:31 Arelius [d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 18:40:04 Anyone have any idea why I can't (asdf-install:install 'lift) on sbcl: package "MOP" not found. 18:40:24 because it's broken 18:41:09 yeah 18:41:18 Is this a known problem? 18:41:20 Arelius: perhaps you should use clbuild 18:41:29 it is 18:41:35 Perhaps I should. 18:41:41 or simply download the packages yourself and setup your *central-registry* 18:42:09 galdor: I did that before, hunchentoot requires a lot of packages though. 18:42:38 one packages are downloaded and setup one time, they're not going anywhere 18:43:04 personally doing package managing manually has been the most satisfactory solution 18:43:34 Arelius: if you're installing hunchentoot, just quit the debugger and run (require 'hunchentoot) 18:44:07 hunchentoot doesn't need lift, and asdf-install is too stupid 18:44:19 *sykopomp* loves quicklisp! 18:44:24 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 (ql:quickload 'hunchentoot) -> (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 1234)) -> done 18:45:52 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-1498.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:01 stassats: but hunchentoot and dependiencies aren't installed. 18:46:10 Arelius: are you sure? 18:46:12 xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.47] has joined #lisp 18:46:51 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:46:52 stassats: it says cl-ppcre isn't installed 18:47:09 oh, i gave you the wrong command 18:47:09 *can't be found 18:47:19 just run (asdf-install:install 'hunchentoot) again 18:47:30 ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has joined #lisp 18:47:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@194.48.133.8] has left #lisp 18:48:31 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 KK, might it be better to just use clbuild? 18:49:08 it sure would be 18:49:19 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 18:49:47 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #lisp 18:49:55 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:50:03 K, can I convince asdf to clean up it's mess? 18:50:15 what mess? 18:50:41 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:42 possibly the .fasl mess? 18:51:00 Well I have hunchentoot partially installed in /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site 18:51:24 you can remove it, if you want to 18:51:27 Arelius, don't confuse asdf and asdf-install 18:51:30 sykopomp: are quicklisp's sources anywhere online? 18:51:37 Arelius: man rm 18:51:41 Fare: yes, fair point 18:51:59 asdf is messy enough without having to claim asdf-install's mess 18:52:02 I suppose my larger question is does a default sbcl install have anything in /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site 18:52:05 adeht: you'll have to ask Xach, since quicklisp isn't actually released yet. 18:52:08 adeht: http://github.com/quicklisp i believe 18:52:09 or can I just kill the whole dir? 18:52:15 kill it all! 18:52:33 stassats: that only has the project metadata. 18:52:41 oh, it's on... what sykopomp said 18:53:06 adeht: /join #quicklisp, or just leave a message for Xach. 18:53:09 stassats: I checked it out yesterday or so.. but didn't find ql sources there (yet?) 18:53:26 sykopomp: I'll just wait until it's public ;) 18:53:36 *sykopomp* has already gone full-time quicklisp \o/ 18:55:01 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:04 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C209.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:11 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-147-1.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.136.194.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:00 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-204-69.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:59:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-29-150.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:01:40 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-147-1.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:54 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-147-1.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:59 oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:07:40 -!- Arelius [d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.80.117.82] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:12:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-65-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:19:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:30:48 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 19:33:32 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:33:59 slash__ [~Unknown@p4FF0A7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C209.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:13 Good evening everyone! 19:37:30 o/ 19:38:12 -!- Hraban [~Hraban@94-226-250-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:02 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:51 good evening 19:46:21 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:57 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:24 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:49:04 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:08 lnostdal [~quassel@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:28 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:05 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:51:24 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:52:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:36 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:40 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:39 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:50 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has joined #lisp 19:56:02 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-14-72.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:39 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.25.55] has joined #lisp 19:59:24 zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has joined #lisp 20:03:18 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 20:04:13 sykopomp: You might also check out http://github.com/brown/slurp 20:04:21 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:04:40 It's what I use to download and keep up to date with Lisp code repositories. 20:04:50 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 20:04:52 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:52 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:06:55 -!- 30BAAVBOK is now known as jrockway 20:07:37 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 20:08:44 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 Dijkstra [58f2a985@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.242.169.133] has joined #lisp 20:11:03 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 20:12:00 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:12:27 -!- GreeL [~fuujin@81-235-201-135-no55.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:13:29 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:53 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-47-186.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:14:02 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-193-210.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:09 -!- Dijkstra [58f2a985@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.242.169.133] has quit [Quit: falconidae] 20:18:30 smanek [~smanek@160.79.132.254] has joined #lisp 20:18:57 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:10 is there a tring to format with floating points 20:20:19 i have this really large number 20:20:19 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:20:27 if i print it with ~a 20:20:33 i get 34708230840293/1000 20:20:37 shows up as a fraction 20:20:52 but if i use ~f or ~$ i dont get the value i expect 20:20:58 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:21:03 PuffTheMagic: are you sure the value you're trying to print is a floating point value? 20:21:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:15 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:42 pkhuong_: the result "should be" 20:21:47 PuffTheMagic: why 'should be'? 20:22:16 PuffTheMagic: (/ 3 4) => 3/4, not a float. 20:22:51 i WANT a float 20:22:55 is that better? 20:23:01 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:23:06 are you _sure_ you want a float? 20:23:11 or do you just want to _display_ it as a float. 20:23:12 ? 20:23:20 PuffTheMagic: 3/4 is a rational number, not a float. 20:23:36 i didnt use 3/4 as the example 20:23:38 someone else id 20:23:46 PuffTheMagic: You can convert it to a float with COERCE. 20:23:52 i NEED the output to show the proper decimal places 20:24:04 and not loose any places 20:24:12 What is the proper decimal places? 20:24:19 lose, not loose 20:24:42 reb: or FLOAT, but that can easily lose digits. 20:24:58 PuffTheMagic: floats are imprecise. 20:25:14 fractional notation is useless for what i am doing 20:25:15 pkhuong_: yes, expecially for FLOAT as opposed to DOUBLE-FLOAT 20:25:20 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 20:25:32 reb: DOUBLE-FLOAT isn't a function in CL. 20:25:43 im outputing a tabular file that needs to get read in by R 20:25:50 it wont be able to handle 2312/34 20:25:58 PuffTheMagic: if you don't mind losing precision, you can just print it out as a float. 20:26:29 when i do that i loose precision to the left of the decimal 20:26:30 pkhuong_: err, yes, I meant the type, not the nonexistant function 20:26:45 PuffTheMagic: lose, not loose 20:26:45 (format t "~,VF" number proper-decimal-places) 20:26:51 clhs float 20:26:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_float.htm 20:26:52 PuffTheMagic: you lose precision simply by using floats. 20:26:53 PuffTheMagic: a single-float can't represent the value you have without loss.. maybe you want a double-float which will work _in this case_ 20:27:15 so what is the format option for a double-float 20:27:24 reb: FLOAT is a function, and a nice way to coerce reals to floats. 20:27:54 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 PuffTheMagic: you need to convert it yourself 20:27:56 Notice that the CLHS page says that the number is printed as a float, not that it's converted to a float before being printed (even if I'd expect most implementers to be lazy). 20:28:09 PuffTheMagic: say, by using (float x 0.0d0) 20:28:32 pjb: it's much more likely to preserve precision than explicitly converting to a float. 20:28:33 So I would NOT convert the number to a float before printing it... 20:28:38 PuffTheMagic: so, how does ~F not work for you? 20:29:03 pkhuong_: I guess because PuffTheMagic doesn't know what the proper decimal places are. 20:29:24 hehe 20:29:53 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:29:58 pkhuong: hmm, to me it looks like ~F coerces to a single-float on sbcl? 20:30:41 when i use ~f 20:31:08 something like this: 123456789/1000 shows up like this 123456700.00 20:31:16 PuffTheMagic: yes, because floats are imprecise... 20:31:35 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:44 PuffTheMagic: and since it's specified to "print as a float", this is a valid result. 20:31:51 GreeL [~fuujin@81-235-201-135-no55.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:54 (format t "~f~%" (coerce 123456789/1000 'double-float)) 20:31:56 i dont care if its valid 20:32:02 i am asking how i get the output i need 20:32:05 PuffTheMagic: you can convert to a double float first, but you're only pushing the problem to larger values. 20:32:32 "If arg is a rational number, then it is coerced to be a single float and then printed. Alternatively, an implementation is permitted to process a rational number by any other method that has essentially the same behavior but avoids loss of precision or overflow because of the coercion." 20:32:39 If you only need 3 decimal places (for instance), it might be better to split the rational yourself. 20:33:21 i really dont need any decimal places, i just need the values on the left side to be correct 20:33:54 123456789/1000 shows up like 123456700.00 ? how is that? 20:33:55 PuffTheMagic: round to an integer value before printing it. 20:34:05 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:34:08 Well, even with double floats, the limit is soon reached. 20:34:21 (format t "~a~%" (floor 123456789/1000)) 20:34:25 (format t "~F" 123456789/1000) 20:35:22 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:35:32 123456.79 why is not not good enough for you? 20:36:07 francogrex: your implementation's single-float type can't represent 123456.789 20:36:09 when did i say it wasnt? 20:36:41 so here you are and stop whining; everyone gave you a good suggestion 20:36:53 yeah i know 20:36:55 i am trying it 20:37:10 idk why u are getting on my back about something not being good enough 20:37:18 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has joined #lisp 20:38:02 not getting on you're back, just trying to undertsand if you're ok with the solutions already presented 20:38:03 (let* ((n 1234567890123456788/1000) (v (ceiling (log (denominator n) 10))) (d (format nil "~D" (* n (expt 10 v))))) (concatenate 'string (subseq d 0 (- (length d) v)) "." (subseq d (- (length d) v)))) 20:38:14 francogrex: well none have worked yet 20:38:33 strange 20:39:05 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:45 adeht: ok i see 20:39:46 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:40:13 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-32-234.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 -!- benny [~user@i577A1FF6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:52 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 20:45:24 strange that ~D does not coerce but ~F does 20:46:00 does not sound like the right thing.. 20:46:12 did you know that (format nil "~D" "foo") does not error? 20:46:36 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:43 not that it's such a big headache... just a random suprise of my day 20:46:49 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-213-145.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:23 ~A is left align, ~D is right align. 20:47:32 gAuche and Droite. 20:47:49 Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:48:40 attila_lendvai1: and (format nil "~F" "foo") ? 20:48:43 *adeht* ponders how to expose a possibly-iolib-using client library to a user 20:49:59 also does not error, should it? 20:51:30 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-209-104.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:43 pjb: that last long method u pasted to convert the float to a string almost works 20:53:12 sometimes i get something that looks like this 20:53:23 2352234289234923./2 20:53:59 Strange. 20:54:36 -!- slash__ [~Unknown@p4FF0A7B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:55:20 which lisp implementation? 20:55:55 lispworks 20:56:05 i could switch to ccl and see if it works there 20:56:14 Yes, it may occur if the denominator is prime to 10^n. 20:56:23 s/n/v/ 20:56:45 hi. i'm having crash issues with SBCL and SLIME. loading SBCL within SLIME and evaluating any error expression such as (+ 5 'a) causes causes http://paste.lisp.org/display/113036 20:56:57 it does not happen when running SBCL from the command line outside of Emacs. 20:56:58 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:23 using latest SLIME from cvs, but emacs-snapshot and sbcl from Ubuntu 10.04 20:58:07 PuffTheMagic: you could use (truncate n (expt 10 (- v))) instead of (* n (expt 10 v)). 20:58:18 or round instead of truncate. 20:58:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:59:20 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:13 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:29 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:37 pjb: truncate worked, thanks 21:00:59 brb 21:01:59 benny [~user@i577A7F93.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:55 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:03:19 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:06:51 -!- WinAthas [~Athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:16 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host121-175-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:38 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:15:58 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:16:09 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:16:16 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:32 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:16:32 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-154-24.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:32 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:16:33 hi Fare 21:17:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:17:17 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-110.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:08 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@49.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:18:13 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.25.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:35 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-134-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:19:52 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:58 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:22 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 21:20:34 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:40 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:51 -!- GreeL [~fuujin@81-235-201-135-no55.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 21:22:20 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 21:24:07 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:18 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:20 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has joined #lisp 21:31:18 -!- blandest` [~user@109.166.142.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:19 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@92.233.174.117] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 Do existing Lisp implementations take measures for memory fragmentation? 21:31:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:08 Phantom_Hoover: many use compacting or copying garbage collectors. 21:32:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-24-7-84-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:12 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 fe[nl]ix: there? 21:35:28 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:36:41 PuffTheMagic: that sounds like a bug... 21:36:44 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:17 you may want to report it to LispWorks. 21:41:13 redocdam [~redocdam@ti0040a380-dhcp1507.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:41:20 -!- redocdam [~redocdam@ti0040a380-dhcp1507.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 21:41:20 redocdam [~redocdam@unaffiliated/redocdam] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 -!- redocdam [~redocdam@unaffiliated/redocdam] has left #lisp 21:42:44 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:40 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:44:44 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:56 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-1498.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:47:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:18 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-204-69.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:04 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:14 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 21:54:21 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d6ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:54:41 sykopomp: i dont report bugs to commercial software I would probably have to pay for the fix, it hurts me enough just using it 21:54:56 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:56:07 PuffTheMagic: The Lispworks developers are good about fixing bugs. I think you might have to pay if you need the fix now, as opposed to whenever they have their next patch release planned. 21:57:01 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:39 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:52 Anyone using Mac OS X 10.6? If you are would you like to run a test for me? 22:02:13 rtoym: sure, what's the test? 22:02:24 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:02:25 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:03:28 gigamonkey: Hi! I'd like to see if cmucl's executable image feature works on 10.6. I think it should, but there's one issue that might cause it to fail. 22:03:38 -!- cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:55 Ah. Sadly I don't have CMUCL installed. 22:04:17 Wouldn't matter because this is new. No one has this version yet. :-) 22:04:28 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@26.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:45 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@92.233.174.117] has left #lisp 22:05:56 Okay, I can give it a whirl. But be warned that I don't have a ton of time for it. 22:06:06 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:22 No problem. Let me upload it. 22:06:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:35 cthuluh [moo@2001:470:1f13:2c9::1] has joined #lisp 22:08:47 -!- cthuluh [moo@2001:470:1f13:2c9::1] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:56 cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 hugod123 [~hugo123@bas1-montreal50-1279633458.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:09:54 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:53 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:19 PuffTheMagic: ....don't you already pay for LW? 22:12:34 (doesn't that license include support and bugfixes?) 22:12:59 sykopomp: my school does 22:13:15 LispWorks fixes a lot of bugs and releases the fixes as patches 22:13:26 sykopomp: and i only use lw cause the editor is better than the emacs setup i have 22:13:36 PuffTheMagic: ah. Still, it couldn't hurt to report it. 22:14:01 for example 6.0.1 did not cost anything for users 22:14:07 if i could get my ccl/eclipse setup working 100% of the time i dont hink i would touch LW 22:14:19 i supposed i can shoot the LW mailing list a message 22:14:37 what exactly was this potential bug? 22:14:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:55 gigamonkey: If you can, download http://common-lisp.net/~rtoy/cmucl/cmucl-2010-08-01-exec-x86-darwin.tar.bz2. Untar that somewhere and run bin/lisp. Then do (save-lisp "/tmp/exe" :executable t). When that's done, run /tmp/exe. This should give you a normal repl. 22:14:59 123123123./1000 looks like a bug to me... 22:15:06 you can always send a bug report to LispWorks directly 22:15:07 oh right 22:15:26 didnt someone say that was expected behavior 22:15:30 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91.150.101.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:20 ratio of float and integer? 22:16:38 the first is an integer, too? 22:17:03 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:17:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:18:26 looks like CLHS does not allow a decimal point in ratios 22:20:42 2.3.2.1.2 Syntax of a Ratio 22:21:28 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@c146-20.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:21:33 2.3.1 Numbers as Tokens 22:22:11 ratio ::= [sign] {digit}+ slash {digit}+ 22:27:40 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:28:53 -!- sellout [~greg@ABordeaux-257-1-134-250.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:30:36 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:58 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:10 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:33:32 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:38:43 -!- Tanami [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:39:20 abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 22:42:48 rtoym: looks like it works. 22:43:09 gigamonkey: It does? Cool! Thanks for testing. 22:44:34 Seems like. (+ 1 2) works as does (/ (fib 1000) (fib 999)) 22:45:18 Sorry for the delay. My kid and I were video chatting with the grandfolks. 22:45:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A3E95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:46:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-98-46.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:46:43 ah, video conferencing... I recall when it was still a "dream" or "needs dedicated fast line" :) 22:48:05 p_l: yup. 22:48:12 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-220-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:50:23 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.160.168] has joined #lisp 22:51:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.160.168] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:10 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:38 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 22:55:10 now I only need to fix connectivity issues in my phone and add a way to program (and do other advanced/crazy stuff) on it, then I can really feel like I dropped from sci-fi movie :) 22:55:15 jmbr [~jmbr@26.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:56:20 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.159.47] has joined #lisp 22:56:36 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:40 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.149.196] has joined #lisp 23:03:22 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:25 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:25 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:52 Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.115] has joined #lisp 23:10:49 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:11:43 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:06 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:13:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.149.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:22 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:46 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.94] has joined #lisp 23:14:19 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has joined #lisp 23:20:04 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.104.173.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:37 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 23:28:05 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29:41 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-149-113.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:31:36 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:30 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.133.50] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:35:18 qbomb [~qbomb@pool4-159.teleclipse.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:20 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.22] has joined #lisp 23:42:09 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.159.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:45:31 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.144] has joined #lisp 23:46:09 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:00 -!- andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:49:04 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.8.1] has joined #lisp 23:50:59 andrewszhao [~andrew@221.131.77.175] has joined #lisp 23:59:31 abugosh [~Adium@c-68-50-42-230.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp