00:00:57 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:52 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:07:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:20 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:08:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:06 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:44 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:12:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:32 I have a package question: whenever I call a method on in my asdf package, it says the function is NULL. Any hints for exporting classes and methods? 00:12:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:54 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.194] has joined #lisp 00:14:45 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:15:08 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:14 WarWeasle, uh? Can you paste.lisp.org an example? 00:16:52 Fare: Sure, one moment... 00:18:10 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:29 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:05 my lisp is very rusty 00:19:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19:32 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/+2F3R 00:19:39 i haven't done any programming at all since last summer and even then what i did last year was ruby and c 00:19:47 syamajala, read a scroll of enchant weapon while confused 00:19:51 Fare: It's three files but it should show what I am doing. 00:20:44 oh, GL. nyef was saying he fixed a few opengl bugs in clx recently. I dunno if it affects cl-opengl. 00:20:51 is that on linux? 00:21:27 Fare: Yes. Sorry, forgot to post that: Ubuntu 64 SBCL emacs/slime 00:21:29 your problem is not with asdf, it's with some sdl or opengl ffi. 00:21:51 I can give you little advice, except to trace suspect functions. 00:21:52 Fare: I can't call my methods 00:22:26 amnesiac_ [~amnesiac@charanda.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:33 what methods? 00:22:36 Fare: This works when it's in my cl-user namespace. If I just call the file without the pacckages. 00:22:37 WarWeasle: paste the error you get. 00:22:52 Xach: The function NIL is undefined. 00:22:53 [Condition of type UNDEFINED-FUNCTION] 00:22:53 WarWeasle, annotate the existing paste, don't create a new one 00:23:17 tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:22 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:23 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:23 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:53 -!- tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:23:53 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 00:24:06 WarWeasle, can you attach a backtrace, too? 00:24:13 Fare + Xach: sure thing... 00:24:20 -!- amnesiac_ [~amnesiac@charanda.sandino.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:36 WarWeasle: I'd like to help, but you have to provide some context, like what you typed, what you expected to happen, and what actually happened. 00:24:53 The code is helpful, but not on its own. 00:24:54 Xach: I just annotated the lisp-paste. 00:25:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:17 Xach: and now I've added the backtrace. I just figured this was some newbie "put an X in front of classes" problem. 00:27:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:28:25 WarWeasle, problem in CL-OPENGL-BINDINGS::GL-GET-PROC-ADDRESS - do you have sources for that function? 00:28:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:28:34 WarWeasle: looks like some magic function generation 00:28:55 WarWeasle: on an unrelated tangent, it's better to use WHEN than a one-legged IF. 00:29:25 Xach, I like that racket enforces this constraint 00:29:28 -!- oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:53 Xach: Ok, I'm looking for the function now. Is there a difference between When and (if ()) 00:30:09 Xach: Well there must be. What is the diff then? 00:30:28 WarWeasle: style. 00:30:31 zfx [1028@gouda.underthedesk.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:30:45 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:54 Hm setting #P"C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\cl-fad-0.6.3" give me #P"C:/Users/Lis/Documents/work/cl-fad-0>.6.3" where does the > come from? 00:31:12 Lis: do you need a trailing \? 00:31:13 with any more than one form with IF you'd need an extra PROGN, while WHEN has an implicit one 00:31:50 yes xach, thanks :D 00:32:42 Lis, Xach, I didn't get it - trailing \ where? 00:33:01 #P"C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\cl-fad-0.6.3\\" 00:33:22 Xach: I've posted what I found. It's a variable that holds a function...but from where I do not know. 00:33:27 what does that have to do with the > ? 00:33:48 hi. which common lisp identifiers begin with > 00:33:54 besides > and >= 00:33:58 dto: >, >=...ah, too late 00:34:03 :) 00:34:13 WarWeasle, where comes from it depends on your platform 00:34:13 Fare: I don't know. Probably goes down some odd branch of pathname parsing. 00:34:28 It's to allow Opengl to access extensions 00:34:52 dto: Those are the only two. 00:35:17 dto: says the hyperspec symbol index 00:35:35 Lispbuilder-sdl probably makes it easy 00:36:13 WarWeasle, balooga is in #lispgames, he is a lispbuilder dev, he could answer the question 00:36:18 maybe they are using > as a quote character, \ being taken already, so that the . in the name field be quoted and distinguished from the separator from the type field. 00:37:40 Guthur: I've had this working before, when I didn't try to package this. I have the feeling I'm doing something wrong when packaging it. 00:37:45 Xach: i'm updating my game object system CLON with some changes to remove syntax oddities. 00:38:03 WarWeasle, oh ok, 00:38:05 Guthur: would that make any difference ? 00:38:30 Guthur: Let me post the original un-packaged version... 00:38:38 dto: sweet 00:38:53 dto: sorry to have missed you at the lisp meeting yesterday! the meeting and meal afterwards were fun. 00:39:50 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 00:42:04 WarWeasle, thats not going to be the relevant code anyway, but buffer is not the problem 00:42:17 Are you sure you created a context 00:42:26 but/the 00:43:40 does someone know how to add directories to the cffi searchpath? *foreign-library-directories* is unbound after loading cffi 00:44:14 WarWeasle, Also if you have created a context you might want to check that its the proper version and not the fallback 00:44:14 Guthur: I'm getting the same problem now that I load my file directly...The difference is in a tools.lisp file I use...I think... 00:44:16 Lis: i don't know, but the cffi manual is pretty good. 00:44:30 i know the *foreign-library-directories* from there... 00:46:13 WarWeasle, I suspect there is either no context or fall back opengl context (version 1.3 or something) and this will mean no genbuffers 00:46:43 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:50 greetings 00:46:50 fusss, memo from gigamonkey: it's moved -> http://gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/ 00:47:22 this is the ccl output http://codepad.org/iQiQsSzc 00:47:52 and I did (pushnew #P"C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\SDL-1.2.14\\lib" *foreign-library-directories* :test #'equal) like in the example 00:47:52 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:36 Xach: :) sorry, it's been a crazy week 00:48:49 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:50:09 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-212-103.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:33 Guthur: Yes, I think you are correct. I was able to create the same error without the package stuff. I'm debugging it now... 00:51:40 Xach: new syntax: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112889 00:51:48 removes the [ ] brackets problem 00:51:58 and it's a simple string replacement to upgrade all source files. 00:52:16 2cool 00:52:24 err, cool. not using sms-speak, i swear. 00:52:50 kewl is sms-speak 00:52:53 I tried to install sdl on my mac laptop today and couldn't figure it out :( 00:53:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:08 Xach: they've been discussing that on lisp-game-dev@common-lisp.net 00:54:08 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:06 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:55:06 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:22 well I know sdl... but I dont know why that variable wich is written down in the cffi manual is not defined 00:55:34 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:38 anyone? 00:55:50 asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.134] has joined #lisp 00:55:53 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 00:57:19 http://github.com/jbr/sibilant 01:00:08 this has got to be the cleanest synthesis of lisp and javascript, including jQuery: http://github.com/jbr/sibilant/blob/master/public/javascripts/sibilant.info.lisp 01:02:40 ah (pushnew #P"C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\SDL-1.2.14\\lib\\" cffi:*foreign-library-directories* :test #'equal) works 01:02:40 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:34 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:04 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:07:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:46 aaaaah I know 01:16:22 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:18 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:20:07 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:53 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 01:26:54 hm slowly I start to hate clozurecl if I try to run the 32bit version on 64bit windows I get "This application can't run under this OS version" does someone know how to solve this? 01:27:37 i have emacs setup with ccl and when I do M-x slime, a lisp session starts but it still says not connected 01:27:38 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:40 something about minor mode 01:27:48 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:00 Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-80.bois.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:34 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:46 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:25 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:31:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:43 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:32:22 Lis: run the 64 bit version? 01:32:42 thats the problem, I believe I can not load libraries in cffi if I use that version 01:33:03 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:01 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B7CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:37:31 Lis: Really? What happens? 01:37:46 <_3b> you can load 64bit libs, but not 32bit 01:37:53 I just says the library can not be loaded 01:38:14 therefore I tried to use the 32bit ccl version to prove it, but it DOES NOT WORK 01:38:25 seriously that pisses me off 01:39:21 Lis: #ccl folks are helpful and friendly. No need to get mad. 01:39:31 #ccl 01:39:33 oops 01:39:33 i have to recompile it 01:39:42 there is no other way to get arround that error I bet 01:39:47 but I have a look, thanks 01:41:35 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-6-86.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:59 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 01:45:17 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:46:57 how is the clisp init script called? 01:48:19 .clisprc.lsp 01:51:35 _danb_ [~user@124-168-164-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:51:55 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:52:33 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:40 jpanest: did you go to the meeting? sorry to have missed you. 01:56:13 -!- abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:56:28 pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:55 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has joined #lisp 01:58:41 Xach: i was sitting behind you to your right =) 01:59:11 Did you hire anyone? 01:59:51 Xach: no, unfortunately i had to leave towards the end of the discussion unexpectedly. i wanted to wait until the end to catch the many inevitable stragglers. 02:00:33 we all straggled over to mary chung's for dinner 02:00:38 well, many straggled over. 02:00:40 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:36 i wish i could have made it. hopefully we dont miss so many meetings going forward 02:01:47 da it works with clisp 02:01:53 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-mhvuwuhawwqlgsfn] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:00 no errors... all dlls where loaded 02:02:08 *Xach* misses too many, but this meeting lined up nicely with some vacation time 02:02:19 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:31 Xach: ok, i was under the impression that you were from much farther away 02:02:46 fusss: sibilant is cool, I never get Javascript syntax exactly right... :-) 02:04:33 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-suqnwbhpxhrqivuc] has joined #lisp 02:05:28 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-160-107.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:29 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:09:55 peterhil, If you are doing straight javascript I recommend JSLint 02:10:14 Fantastic wee tool check your JS 02:10:25 s/tool/tool to 02:11:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:12:39 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:12:54 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-106.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:13:49 awesome lisp-sdl rocks :D 02:14:22 Lis, Lispbuilder-sdl? 02:14:27 ya 02:15:04 Yep they've done a good job there 02:15:05 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:15:14 hm 02:15:47 I rent a big building for our graduation party and I'm not a dj or something like that, but I can now code music mixes with lisp. 02:16:01 There are some really great effects and pitching works out of the box :D 02:16:23 awesome 02:16:57 but I don't understand why I can not use the 32bit ccl on 64bit windows 02:17:06 still pisses me off 02:17:15 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Martian Death Ray] 02:17:23 What did #ccl suggest? 02:17:29 <_3b> well, feel free to fix it :) 02:17:33 emptyness 02:17:34 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 02:17:42 _3b ya I already found a fix on the net 02:18:05 <_3b> to run 32bit ccl on win64? 02:18:10 the site if offline but the google entry just shows up the file and the function where the change needs to be made :D 02:18:19 ya 02:18:24 <_3b> ah, cool 02:18:39 *_3b* had the impression it would be something complicated to fix 02:19:08 mh you just have to disable a if clause... 02:19:23 but like I told... I don't understand why... 02:19:45 + I don't understand why It does not work without sse2 02:19:49 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-80.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Bye all.] 02:20:27 <_3b> that is probably just due to being ported from ppc, and only needing to work on whatever CPUs were in Macs at the time 02:20:33 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:40 ah 02:20:45 <_3b> and not being worth the effort of adding support for older stuff once it got ported to other OS 02:20:56 So, I have a random lisp style question for anyone willing to answer. 02:21:07 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-106.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:21:49 well I either try to recompile the sdl stuff to 64bit or I get the ccl people to fix that hardware test case 02:22:06 I have a library I'd like to release, and my examples use the ubiquitous 'while' macro. Should I export this macro from my library? I need to in order to have my example programs which use the library, but I could see it being so common, that I'd get symbol conflicts with other libraries or macro files people write. 02:22:12 sdl 64bit would be awesome though 02:22:39 Or, should I just rename it so it is specific to my library but does the exact same behavior as 'while' so I can release examples? 02:25:05 I don't know of any while macros 02:25:21 I don't think it's that common of a symbol 02:26:36 Gunthur: Really? It is like the first example in any explanation of macros. I figure it is probably in every single piece of Lisp code ever written. :) 02:27:08 Umm, maybe then 02:28:43 PCL doesn't seem to have it 02:28:48 What does it do? 02:29:19 Is it basically a while loop? 02:30:17 yup. 02:30:25 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:31:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:07 can't imagine many using that to be honest 02:31:25 You can use a loop very much the same way 02:31:31 This is the basic implementation: 02:31:31 (defmacro while (test &body body) 02:31:31 `(do () ((not ,test)) ,@body)) 02:31:35 Hrm. 02:31:49 In that case, maybe I should recast my while macro into a loop form and then I don't have to worry about it. 02:31:59 Would that be a reasonable thing to do? 02:33:14 I don't think it will matter, I really have never seen a while macro, but I haven't seen as much CL code as some 02:35:37 Hrm. I just did a survey of a bunch of lisp code, and saw that (loop while test body) is more common than I thought. So maybe I'll change my stuff to use that instead. 02:35:56 Thank you for the advice! 02:36:08 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:36:22 Your implementation based on DO is better than basing it on LOOP, fwiw. 02:36:59 The only downside of using (loop while do If you are going to wrap it in a let for test it may work out the same 02:38:10 depends on context there though 02:38:23 tcr, Hrm, I'm desiring on keeping it, since I sorta wrote a bunch of code using it... Sometimes it is wrapped in a let, other times not. 02:38:40 Hrm, maybe I'll just keep it. It is version 0.1 of the software and if people really complain about the usability I can change it. 02:38:47 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:12 for fwiw I'm not advocating changing it either, I don't think it will conflict with much code tbh 02:40:05 I see. Ok, Ill keep it the way it is, since it won't surprise anyone, and export it. From my point of view, either solution will generate some kind of feedback and I won't know what it is until I get it. :) 02:40:30 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has joined #lisp 02:40:50 Export it? 02:41:02 Oh that was negated 02:41:02 I appreciate the conversation. Hopefully, my stuff will be released in a week or two. It is a master/worker library designed to have several thousand slaves connected to it and run through billions of tasks (of which I've tested both). 02:41:49 <_3b> you could also have a package for things like that which aren't part of the API of the actual lib 02:42:03 _3b, how would that work? 02:42:09 <_3b> then the examples can use that, and users can decide on their own 02:42:33 <_3b> (defpackage #:psilord-utils (:use :cl) (:export #:while)) ? 02:43:03 Can I have more than one defpackage in the library? 02:43:09 I suppose that's my real question. 02:43:37 <_3b> you can have as many as you want 02:43:58 <_3b> or you could have a separate util lib if you prefer 02:44:52 The only macro I'd have in that little util lib is 'while'. :) Maybe I'll just leave it exported and if it becomes a problem fix it then. Thank you _3b for letting me know that that option was available to me. 02:45:40 wow, sdl compiles right out of the box for 64bit 02:45:55 This is my first real lisp project and while I'm quite sure it isn't as lispy as it could be, it is solving my problems reliably, and what more could one want. :) 02:46:21 Of course, the first time I release it, it'll probably be run in enough other contexts to which I don't have access as to immediately explode. :) 02:46:25 jmbr_ [~jmbr@141.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 02:48:09 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:31 Thanks Gunthur and _3b for the discussion. When I'm done, I might be asking around for things like should I get a project at common-lisp.net or something or just release it form my home page and say go to comp.lang.lisp and ask your questions and I'll respond there. :) 02:51:20 (Oh thank you tcr too!) 02:55:12 You're welcome 02:57:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:58:01 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.10/2010050600]] 03:00:56 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:12 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:07:16 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:22 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 03:09:31 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.232] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:10:35 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:11:00 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 03:13:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:14:38 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:24 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:35 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:19:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:19:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:27 _danb_` [~user@124-169-9-3.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:20:31 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 03:21:43 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:22:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Client Quit] 03:24:02 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-164-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:25:53 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:04 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 03:33:27 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-109-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Arrrr!] 03:36:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hxdfiiqhguxpshps] has joined #lisp 03:37:39 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:18 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:37 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 03:49:08 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:12 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:15 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:54:20 hello 03:58:16 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:02 FareTower [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:34 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:00 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:06:37 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 04:07:53 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 04:09:17 lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 04:10:25 Lis [~Lis@p5B204FC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:54 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:17 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 mugrido [~jbelbo@adsl-75-34-29-20.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:22 Hi, i am having trouble with asdf2 (sbcl). My files are named as "*.cl", but asdf2 looks only for "*.lisp". I defined defmethod asdf:source-file-type, but this does not work anymore (used to work before asdf 2). Anybody with the same problem? 04:21:51 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:23:14 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:45 So, I recompiled sdl for 64bit and everything works with ccl64 bit now... 04:23:46 great 04:29:26 mugrido, oops, probably a bug related to how we now eagerly compute pathnames. 04:29:54 Cool, do you want me to formally file the bug? 04:30:53 what defmethod do you use, and when do you use it? 04:32:00 Something like this: 04:32:00 do you define a defmethod on source-file-type ? 04:32:02 (defmethod asdf:source-file-type ((c cl-source-file) (s (eql (find-system 'bt-utilities)))) "cl") 04:32:29 do you define it *before* the defsystem? 04:32:40 probably not, considering the eql type. 04:32:55 I think there's a chicken and egg problem here. 04:33:16 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:29 After... 04:33:59 by that time, it's too late. 04:34:03 Do you know a quick fix? 04:35:55 a quick fix would be to define a subclass of cl-source-file whose type slot has a default :initform of "cl" and then use that as the :default-component-class of your system. 04:35:57 If a define defmethod asdf:source-file-type.... before defsystem, it goes into an infinite loop 04:36:06 duh 04:36:21 because you call find-system that reads the file, that calls find-system, etc. 04:37:14 so the eager pathname determination (otherwise needed to minimize computations AND make sure things are resolved against the correct *default-pathname-defaults*) 04:37:43 seems to interact badly with that previous feature (and make it not working) 04:38:21 you should definitely report a bug against asdf on launchpad for that 04:38:35 if possible after devising a workaround / replacement solution. 04:38:35 Excellent, i'll try the subclass of cl-source-file, and file the bug. Thanks a lot! 04:38:44 sorry for the trouble 04:39:10 what system is that? 04:40:51 what do you mean? (sbcl from git / linux-debian testing) 04:42:54 no, the thing that uses .cl 04:43:04 is it some free software package? 04:43:29 Draggor1 [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-187-212.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:23 No, my own projects. 04:44:44 Defining (defclass dummy-file (asdf:cl-source-file) 04:44:44 ((type :initform "cl"))), and :default-component-class dummy-file worked nicely. 04:45:15 I'll file the bug then. Thanks again for your work and help! 04:47:10 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-203-210.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:48:20 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-26-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:50:04 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:50:56 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:51:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:52:54 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:50 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:38 -!- mugrido [~jbelbo@adsl-75-34-29-20.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:30 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 05:13:16 -!- FareTower [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:36:34 -!- symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37:06 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:37:33 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest20151 05:37:52 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:38:37 good morning 05:40:23 -!- Guest20151 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 05:45:42 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:48:20 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-108-112.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:50:34 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 I'm currently having problems loading closure-html 05:51:32 does anybody have the same problem ? 05:52:09 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-124-50.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:57:46 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-108-112.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:57:47 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:02:15 Good morning everyone! 06:02:26 'morning :) 06:03:39 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 06:08:30 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:10:11 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:31 I'd like to print off some CL code. How would you guys have it re-indented (and re-spaced, there's some stuff like (+(* 2 3)(* 4 5))) and appropriately colored/formatted suitable for printing? 06:11:09 Does that even eval? 06:11:42 Well, without the extra parentheses on the end it should be ok .. 06:11:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:12:14 Personally I'd display it as (+ (* 2 3) (* 4 5)) in black on an off white yellow base. 06:12:15 Zhivago: The extra paren is to close the initial one after "re-indented" 06:12:43 I'd display it as that too, but whoever wrote this code apparently thinks things look better all crammed together. 06:13:19 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:13:47 sorry vpn connection hanged 06:14:04 beach, can you tell me if you are able to load closure-html in sbcl 1.0.40 ? (if you haven't received my message) 06:16:19 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:17:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:18:00 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725148.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 06:18:34 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:58 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:20:47 -!- Revolve [revolve@wind.nullroute.eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:21:06 -!- Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:39 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:15 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:31 Revolve [revolve@wind.nullroute.eu.org] has joined #lisp 06:22:59 -!- Lis [~Lis@p5B204FC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 06:23:00 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:30 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:24:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:25:23 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:25:48 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:28:16 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:27 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 06:28:54 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:30:13 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@141.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:30:21 jmbr [~jmbr@141.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:30:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31:28 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 06:31:33 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hxdfiiqhguxpshps] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:34:02 -!- jleija_away [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 06:35:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ezpmnlmcuhpfgecm] has joined #lisp 06:38:19 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-92435.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:40:05 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 06:41:28 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 06:44:23 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-19-99.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:50 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:48:05 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:48:49 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-108-112.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:48:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:59 good morning 06:50:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:50:49 hello mvilleneuve 06:50:57 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 06:52:23 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:36 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:54:52 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:57:12 Hey mvilleneuve. 06:59:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:35 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 07:04:02 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:13 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:05:46 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:10:23 AAAAAAAAAAAAAA 07:10:29 good morning 07:10:40 I just noticed that I have been looking at the wrong CLIM spec 07:10:44 -!- slava [~slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 07:10:57 So my call to present was all wrong 07:11:02 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xqznsyisdgcqvqon] has joined #lisp 07:11:03 what, you used the old one? 07:11:14 Yeah somebody linked it to me from here 07:11:32 it was a joke. I think they're _all_ old. 07:11:35 hahaha 07:11:57 Well I was probably looking at CLIM when I should have been looking at CLIM2 07:12:18 Anyway I'm just happy I noticed it. Hopefully now everything will go much smoother. :) 07:12:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:16:33 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 07:17:51 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Martian Death Ray] 07:19:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:20:33 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-101-153.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:20:49 Hello OliverUv 07:20:59 Glad you found the right spec. 07:22:26 Unfortunately, it looks like gilberth migrated bauhh.dyndns.org to bauhh.net and bauhh.de but didn't migrate the annotatable CLIM spec. :( I should give him a call. 07:22:43 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-108-112.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:22:47 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/23-4.html#_1191 07:22:54 this is what I am looking at now, works pretty well 07:23:02 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:23:17 Oh? 07:23:46 You are right! It's back up. That's great! 07:24:25 Pleasse feel free to annotate it if you find something that is not clear. 07:24:34 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-246-207.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:29 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has left #lisp 07:25:54 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:26:43 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ezpmnlmcuhpfgecm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:28:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:30 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:49 -!- rbarraud_ is now known as rbarraud 07:34:12 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:34:28 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:37 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:18 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@141.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:38:17 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 07:39:14 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 07:39:38 -!- lambert is now known as Zik 07:41:09 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:43:14 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.117] has joined #lisp 07:48:43 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-101-153.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:50:23 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 07:50:56 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has left #lisp 07:51:32 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 07:51:32 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:36 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:57:41 -!- Zik [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:58:33 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:08 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 07:59:27 bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:59:40 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 07:59:42 -!- bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:57 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:00:24 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:26 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:01:10 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:01:40 Huh. 08:01:51 An error I've been having for about an hour now, finally solved. 08:02:59 Note to self and others: Don't put the characters +å after each other (for example (defparameter +å-example+ (something 'nifty)) ) 08:03:17 because the SBCL reader will skip that entirely 08:04:03 Actually, it might not - but it will skip it in for example (present my-object :view +å-view+) 08:04:17 giving you errors saying there is an odd number of key things 08:04:36 Now we know, and knowing is half the balttle! 08:08:35 O.o 08:08:37 that's a very strange bug 08:08:41 are you sure that's what's happening? 08:10:55 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:14:03 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 08:15:10 Damn, I'm trying to replicate it in a separate file but I can't 08:16:10 can anybody tell me if he is able to load closure-html ? 08:16:36 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:18:24 -!- _danb_` [~user@124-169-9-3.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:01 I can replicate the bug in my own project though 08:20:50 jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 08:21:05 OliverUv: even with a clean readtable ? 08:21:37 I restart my SBCL after each test run :/ 08:22:04 looked through the manual and such for ways of clearing or resetting 08:22:22 also googled, so clean readtable is what I'm looking for in that case? 08:22:52 Also: I managed to replicate the bug with no odd characters, so it is not because of å 08:24:09 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:27 kiuma: the version in clbuild gives me an error saying it cannot find Entities-Latin1.asd 08:26:27 Hmmm. Am I supposed to be forced to supply all &optionals in a lambda list before I am allowed to supply &keys? 08:26:37 blandest, the same to me with sbcl 08:27:22 present takes: object &optional type &key view etc 08:27:23 is it a bug in asdf or closure-html has to be updated ? 08:27:57 OliverUv: yes 08:28:10 i get the odd amount of keys error when I call it as (present month-object :view a-view) 08:28:54 ost`: Damn! I had read through those rules just a few days ago so I was pretty sure that my method call was not the problem 08:29:19 vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:29:30 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:50 Well don't I feel like the fool in a jester's court. 08:31:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:34:05 kiuma: see this http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/closure-devel/attachments/20100624/e1e44df7/attachment.bin patch 08:34:07 well symlinking Entities-Latin1 to Entities-Latin1.asd and doing so for other entities solves the problem 08:34:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:34:30 kiuma: that's a wrong way to solve it 08:34:43 yes I supposed so :) 08:35:04 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:35:18 zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:38:27 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:18 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-210-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:44:14 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441121.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:48 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440513.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:28 michal` [~michal@anj75-2-88-162-182-86.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:33 Hello 08:51:47 can someone tell me why autocompletion is now upcase ? 08:52:10 Is in lisp something like unread-char but for output stream? I'd like to undo printing character to stream. is this possible? 08:52:51 kiuma: That sounds like it would be dependent on what IDE you're using and other such specifics. What are you using? 08:53:38 (not that I would know the answer for any given value of such; it's just the sort of thing the question needs to ask.) 08:54:01 pavitras, I'm using GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 08:54:39 and latest slime 08:56:13 michal`: what should happen when you print a character to standard output or if you write it to a network stream ? :) 08:56:54 blandest: hmm ok ;-) 08:58:08 can someone tell kiuma how to properly describe problems? 08:59:21 stassats, I'm in repl, then after having loaded my system I type (wingstech-server: and hit tab 08:59:52 what completion are you using? 08:59:57 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xqznsyisdgcqvqon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:27 attila_lendvai: sorry, had to leave yesterday evening. When do you have time to merge it in? would next week be good for you? 09:00:34 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:41 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:01:24 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:01:39 hlavaty: no worries. i've already started merging it, so if you have some easy to push changes to your public repos, then i'd welcome that 09:05:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:11 daniel [~daniel@p5082F595.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:35 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:07:34 -!- pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:55 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:08:13 stassats, sorry my vpn hanged 09:08:14 stassats, a moment that I paste .emacs 09:08:54 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112896 09:09:25 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F191.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:10:42 your config is OK 09:11:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:12:37 but I have that problem with autocompletion 09:12:47 when I hit tab 09:12:54 it completes with 09:13:18 (wingstech-server:WINGSTECH- 09:13:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:00 I have the options of WINGSTECH-START and WINGSTECH-STOP 09:14:15 if I complete with: 09:14:39 (wingstech-server:WINGSTECH-sta and hit tab it doesn't complete 09:15:16 I'd also like that the completion would be (wingstech-server:wingstech- with lowercase 09:17:44 since i can't reproduce the problem, i can't help 09:18:56 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-29.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-191.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:18 it's so beautiful ;D; (lisp, that is) 09:27:03 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:28:39 :/ ok 09:28:55 kiuma: I also get upper case symbols when hitting TAB after cl: but not if i type something like cl:get-TAB 09:29:31 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:29:32 attila_lendvai: i'll have a look this week and let you know, thanks 09:29:48 try to type a few letters after the package name and see what happens 09:31:02 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:18 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:32:42 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 09:35:31 Mruczek [Kot@unaffiliated/murczek] has joined #lisp 09:35:43 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:37:16 kiuma: it always worked that way 09:38:46 -!- Mruczek is now known as Mruczek`away 09:39:14 -!- Mruczek`away [Kot@unaffiliated/murczek] has left #lisp 09:40:46 ok 09:41:24 blandest, yes if I start typing lowercase it works 09:42:23 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:43:57 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:20 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.59.117] has joined #lisp 09:57:25 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:57:52 demmeln [~Adium@188.110.48.176] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:02:20 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:03:01 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.59.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:12 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:31 kiuma: so, you did type in uppercase all the time? 10:06:10 so "autocompletion is now upcase" isn't true? 10:06:33 no stassats 10:06:49 I always type lowercase 10:07:10 the problem arise only If I specify the package 10:07:24 kiuma: How do you specify the package? 10:07:25 (package-name: + [TAB] 10:07:52 but not if I give a letter and then hit TAB 10:08:37 for example (package-name:f + [TAB] will provide options for package-name:foo package-name:faz 10:08:42 well, then what i said holds, can't reproduce 10:08:45 (random names) 10:09:21 do you always have suggestion in lowercase ? 10:09:46 yes, and that's how it should work 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:04 stassats: (defpackage "FOO" (:intern "BAR-BER" "BAR-IKE")) (swank:completions "foo::" (package-name *package*)) 10:10:05 bho ?! 10:10:23 gives uppercase completions 10:10:42 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:10:59 So use #:foo style string designators. 10:11:05 lispm [~joswig@g224124236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:11:17 ost`: that's not the completion function kiuma is using 10:11:49 ok, type foo:: 10:12:09 for me it copletes to foo::BAR- 10:12:45 again, that's not what kiuma is using unless he lies about his .emacs 10:13:00 yes it is 10:13:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:13:07 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:13:26 it happens that all his package's external symbols share a common prefix 10:13:33 ost`, it's exactly what I'm having 10:13:37 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 10:13:46 and SLIME does complete that prefix with uppercase 10:13:53 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 kiuma: then you're not using fuzzy completion 10:14:16 and then if you continue lowercase it doesn't complete 10:14:34 stassats, I'thought so but I don't know why 10:17:52 ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 10:17:52 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:11 -!- ost`` is now known as ost 10:18:16 c-p-c choose case based on what's already typed, but with the case of "foo:" it thinks nothing is typed and defaults to uppercase 10:18:33 exactly 10:19:09 but who uses c-p-c, anyway 10:19:15 I do 10:19:30 do you want this to be fixed? 10:20:01 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has joined #lisp 10:21:33 I don't care =) 10:22:36 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:23:21 stassats, it's not so importat, just to know, I'll avoid completions of "foo:" 10:23:55 it's low low low priority IMHO 10:23:56 kiuma: but didn't you want to use fuzzy completion? 10:24:06 yes that would be nice 10:24:11 -!- michal` [~michal@anj75-2-88-162-182-86.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 10:24:35 I've 1bit memory and I forget my own functions :) 10:25:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:25:23 is that your whole .emacs? 10:25:30 stassats, yes 10:25:57 and what C-h v slime-complete-symbol-function says? 10:27:48 defined in `slime.el'. 10:27:58 Its value is 10:27:58 slime-complete-symbol* 10:28:40 kiuma: your config should work, though try uncommenting that commented setq 10:29:26 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:31:46 stassats, uncommented I type (sta + [TAB] I'd expsect wingstech-server:wingstech-start in the choices but I don't find it 10:31:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:32:11 only thigs starting with sta 10:32:17 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:32:17 *things 10:32:40 that's right 10:33:00 you need at least w:sta 10:34:13 I try 10:34:30 great! thanks a lot 10:35:59 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:59 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 tcr1 [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 10:39:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:40:59 mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:00 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:22 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:28 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:11 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A6A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:54:37 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:04:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:35 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:11:13 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-shwaxvsbkjhmceef] has joined #lisp 11:20:50 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:29:08 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has joined #lisp 11:31:43 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:32:30 -!- demmeln [~Adium@188.110.48.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:40:17 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 11:40:23 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:40:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:42:10 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@dhcp184-49-168-47.univ.buf.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:34 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:38 -!- mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:40 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:45:28 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:45:52 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:26 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:46:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:06 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:10 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has joined #lisp 11:47:32 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:49:56 davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has joined #lisp 11:51:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:34 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:51:37 *Xach* feels the positive energy of #lisp! 11:53:10 btw, what's the difference between asdf:operate and asdf:oos? 11:54:10 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:47 Deltafire: asdf:oos is essentially an alias for asdf:operate 11:56:49 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 11:57:17 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 11:57:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:59:07 ("essentially" because oos's function object is not _identical_ to the one of operate, but never mind the pedantry -- the intention is that they are synonymous) 12:01:02 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 12:02:00 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:38 Xach: how did your quicklisp presentation go? 12:02:50 Xach: and how many users did you win over? 12:03:30 and is the presentation available online!? 12:03:59 it is - check planet lisp 12:05:00 nice 12:06:38 I was under the impression that Xach was somebody else entirely, not Zach Beane 12:07:00 wait no I got it all wrong 12:07:00 he is 12:07:28 oh! I was thinking of Zed Shaw 12:11:14 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:13:05 ow, burrrrrrn 12:15:58 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:00 hahaha 12:18:21 hey 12:18:28 that's better than Xah Lee, which i usually get. 12:18:36 =) 12:19:22 antifuchs: went well. 12:19:48 well, zed shaw is hardly an idol (: 12:19:56 xah is at least tangentially related to lisp (: 12:20:23 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224124236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20:50 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:10 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:23:46 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:13 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 12:25:50 zed shaw is cool, but not as cool as this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6174666/comic.png 12:27:09 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:47 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has joined #lisp 12:29:34 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:33 -!- ost` is now known as ost 12:45:03 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:47:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has joined #lisp 12:48:05 -!- oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:51:45 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:37 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:58:14 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:07 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 13:01:09 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has left #lisp 13:01:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:04:13 FareTower [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:59 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:07:13 rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has joined #lisp 13:09:52 -!- FareTower [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:04 Joreji [~thomas@90-208.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:14:56 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:35 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-210-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:21:48 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-82.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:51 sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 13:23:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:24:48 Is it me or is clim extremely difficult to grasp if you are used to more modern toolkitsß 13:25:29 Does anyone know a good tutorial on clim? 13:26:09 sepisultrum: http://mcclim.cliki.net/Documentation 13:26:29 + Examples directory 13:26:43 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:27:03 *stassats* has difficulty to grasp Qt 13:27:22 stassats: yeah, I've read quite a few things in this list. I guess examples will help more 13:28:23 hmm, Qt does not try to be overly general like clim 13:28:47 having started with VCL, I have to side with sepisultrum 13:29:13 well, i'm not saying that CLIM is easy to grasp 13:29:49 and i'm trying to use Qt from Lisp 13:31:15 p_l: what is VCL? 13:31:35 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:43 visual common lisp? 13:32:04 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:32:37 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32:40 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:41 sepisultrum: Borland's Visual Component Library (or something like that). My yardstick for GUI Toolkit "newbie-friendliness" :-) 13:33:02 p_l: ohh, something like delphi 13:34:13 sepisultrum: Delphi was built on top of it 13:34:35 p_l: so, have you managed to do some work in clim yet? 13:34:52 sepisultrum: not much 13:35:04 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:09 I usually had more pressing concerns ^^; 13:35:14 I've been trying for the third time now :) 13:35:37 what problems do you have? 13:37:00 stassats: I don't get how the panes in make-application-frame relate to things like menu-choose 13:37:12 I'd like to build something similar to gnome-panel 13:37:24 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:37:59 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:06 with a button that unrolls a menu in the left and bottons for raising windows in the right 13:38:34 clim menu-choose 13:38:34 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/25.html#_1354 13:40:29 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has joined #lisp 13:40:38 stassats: so can I just use this as a pane type for make pane? 13:40:56 stassats: or do I need to call it in the callback for my menu button? 13:41:11 menu-choose is a function, you need to call it 13:41:24 why don't you just make regular menus? 13:41:33 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:41:47 stassats: can I make them pop up from a small button? 13:41:54 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:42:03 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:42:32 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:45:51 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:45:55 clim menu-button 13:45:56 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/30-4.html#_1778 13:46:39 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:47:24 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 13:49:48 stassats: tanks 13:49:50 thanks 13:51:29 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:51:30 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:18 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:11 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 13:54:48 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:56:03 and menu-button seems to be broken in mcclim... 13:59:33 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:50 *stassats* got frustrated with mcclim again and goes away 13:59:57 'morning 14:01:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:43 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:03:28 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:32 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:03:47 -!- oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:55 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-shwaxvsbkjhmceef] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:54 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A42CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:11 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:11 pokoko222 [~chatzilla@95.180.189.132] has joined #lisp 14:08:16 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:21 how can i program lisp on windows 14:08:24 what IDE? 14:08:43 pokoko222: LispWorks 14:08:44 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:56 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:30 *_3b`* uses emacs+silme as IDE for lisp programming on windows 14:09:35 pokoko222: the standard "IDE" is emacs; or I believe two commercial lisps: Allegro and LispWorks offer IDEs that should work on Windows. 14:09:58 nah i hate emacs 14:10:02 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:09 pokoko222: for the community on this IRC you will mostly find emacs users. 14:10:45 i dont have time to learn it i just want simple lisp start 14:10:53 personal edition of LispWorks right? 14:11:06 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has joined #lisp 14:11:09 hatred isn't something what i'd call reasonable 14:11:15 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:39 LispWorks IDE is emacs-like 14:11:49 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has joined #lisp 14:12:22 <_3b`> you could try able, or see if the eclipse lisp plugin (cusp?) still works/works on windows 14:12:47 is there maybe an online interpreter 14:12:53 i just need to type simple lisp code 14:13:09 pokoko222: What are you going to use this for? 14:13:11 do you need an IDE for that? 14:13:31 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 nah i just need to do some problems from structure and interpretation of computer programs book 14:13:42 you want #scheme, then. 14:13:49 this book is not even using Common Lisp 14:13:52 oh right 14:13:55 damn 14:13:57 i forgot 14:14:01 -!- pokoko222 [~chatzilla@95.180.189.132] has left #lisp 14:14:10 Wow! 14:15:43 -!- rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: rlb3] 14:17:41 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21:39 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:40 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:28 My SBCL 1.0.37 no longer seems to have a restart for resolving name conflicts in packages. 14:24:13 :D 14:24:16 beach: there were issues with deadlocks (especially under slime). I think a more useful fix has been committed since. 14:24:32 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:37 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 14:25:34 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has left #lisp 14:28:36 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:26 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:30:24 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31:12 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:18 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:31:46 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest22042 14:32:34 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:56 -!- konr is now known as akosdkoasd 14:32:57 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has joined #lisp 14:33:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:19 -!- akosdkoasd [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:29 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:34:14 zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:34:18 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 14:35:57 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-139-035.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:14 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:39:47 Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725148.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 pkhuong: Thanks! 14:41:30 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:41:47 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 is there any comittment by sbcl to ensure that what room displays is *actually* what the image is using? I ask this because top and room show two completely different results. 14:43:03 i've heard commentary by various sbcl devs that the room feature isn't to be trusted. 14:43:08 and by committment, I mean whether room only uses internal bookkeeping results as its gauge or whether it actually uses OS calls to determine stuff. 14:43:24 Fade: yeah, I'm hearing you. stassats was warning me the other day too. 14:43:36 <_3b`> room looks at what it can see on the lisp heap, so probably won't count foreign memory, and maybe not garbage 14:43:38 um, why should top and ROOM have anything to do with each other? 14:43:58 Shaftoe_: i was? 14:44:24 stassats: were you not commenting on gc's conservativeness at times and surprised that I Was happy by my mem usage 14:44:28 nyef in particular was commenting on room a few days or a week ago. 14:44:31 check the logs 14:44:38 <_3b`> probably also won't report stuff like per-thread things like stacks 14:44:53 Shaftoe_: that i did, but that's not related to ROOM 14:45:01 _3b`: I'm afraid those two points you made my be my achilles heal. namely memory lost in cffi. 14:45:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 or rather, uffi via clsql 14:45:18 room measures (roughly) what lisp data is reachable. top(1) reports stuff that has been allocated or committed in the virtual memory system 14:45:38 stassats: it was in that I Was relying on room to gauge my memory consumption. 14:46:09 so how do I get to the logs again? 14:46:19 minion: please tell Shaftoe_ about logs 14:46:20 Shaftoe_: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:46:27 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:32 <_3b`> top also doesn't seem to have any way to distinguish between 'used but swapped out' and 'address space reserved but unused ' 14:47:19 _3b`: yeah, I've been noticing how top's memory reporting is itself a bit lacking. 14:47:55 Shaftoe_: Linux VM reports are lacking as well 14:48:06 it has virtual and reserved. what about real 14:48:11 yeah. they are. 14:48:35 in a way, windows NT's memory reporting is much better. OSX's too, actually. 14:49:00 *_3b`* thought RES was 'resident' = actual ram in use, not 'reserved' 14:49:15 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:49:19 RES is "resident" 14:49:26 but it's not "actual ram in use" 14:49:29 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 14:49:38 in that pages can be shared between processes (and hence multiply-counted) 14:50:15 p_l: you are right. 14:51:09 there's different names. The man top on osx speaks of wired, active, inactive, used and free. 14:52:15 (the nomenclature split sure doesn't help) 14:52:18 understanding memory usage on almost any modern OS is *extremely* complicated 14:52:29 hear hear 14:53:22 typically the tools that exist are rubbish, but even once you get past that you have to deal with al the shared mappings 14:53:28 well, case in point: room says total dynamic memory used ~100megs. Top says my resident is 400m. Yay for accountability =) 14:53:48 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:08 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-157.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:19 -!- Guest22042 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:57:28 reading /proc/meminfo directly will give you a better idea of what's happening in general, over top. 14:59:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:37 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:50 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 Shaftoe_: you want rsize, on OS X. The way SBCL's allocator works on x86, some pages are left unused after GC, without immediately releasing them to the OS. 15:01:38 Xof: shared pages usually are mentioned under SHR or similar 15:02:52 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:59 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:04:12 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 15:05:41 Ugh 15:05:44 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:53 My clim presenters are giving me hell. 15:06:42 Whenever I try to use the presented object (be it from the presenter's present method or a command), the object is suddenly not the presented object but instead nil! 15:08:08 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:30 Anybody had similar problems? 15:09:22 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:49 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 15:10:38 -!- vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:39 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:00 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:46 OliverUv: how are you attempting to use it? 15:12:55 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.202.20.31] has joined #lisp 15:12:56 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:05 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 OliverUv: have you defined any presentation translators on the objects' presentation type? 15:14:07 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 15:16:03 -!- steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has left #lisp 15:16:32 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 antifuchs: well, I seem to have the same problem both with that and with the presentation-method present 15:17:51 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:00 but yeah, I have defined both the command and a presentation-to-command translator 15:18:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:07 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 15:21:28 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has joined #lisp 15:22:20 -!- abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:22:26 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:42 here is some code 15:23:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112907 15:24:01 (translated into english, please excuse some non-optimal indentation) 15:25:35 Basically, when I use the commented-out function it all works properly, which should indicate that my macro bygg-table (oops! that's build-table in english) 15:25:39 works 15:26:04 the unpack functions have also been tested for correctness 15:26:30 sounds almost like unpack-day returns nil somehow? 15:27:39 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-157.northland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:15 but I check for nil! 15:31:23 outputting a black square in case of nil 15:36:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:12 ok, then I misunderstand what's really happening 15:37:24 what are you doing to get the nil value? 15:37:26 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 15:37:36 I mean, do you click on something, or is that in a presentation translator? 15:39:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:40:11 timor [~timor@port-92-195-185-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:16 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:40:56 I really don't know where the nil value appears, or which function is actually complaining about it 15:41:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:26 SBCL's stack traces and error messages are always so shit-wrapped in lambdas and other things caused by the macros used by clim 15:42:11 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-123-87.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:20 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:46:23 pardon my french 15:47:45 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:48 wanting to do some (let (*standard-output*)) hack so it won't eval to stdout, but to be read to a string 15:49:08 ie, for (print) and (format t) statements 15:49:18 zc00gii: not a hack. 15:49:22 <_3b`> clhs with-output-to-string 15:49:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_out_.htm 15:49:26 Xach: call it what you want 15:49:31 <_3b`> ^ like that you mean? 15:49:34 (format nil "hello") => "hello" 15:49:36 zc00gii: a normal thing to do all the time in CL. 15:49:42 _3b`: I am aware of that, wondering how I'd implement it 15:49:43 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 15:49:45 with-output-to-string is one easy way. 15:49:55 or put nil instead of t in format 15:49:55 <_3b`> (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) ...) ? 15:50:01 that. 15:50:30 good idea 15:50:35 *Xach* is also deeply in love with synonym-streams 15:51:19 -!- burton [~burton@cercleinfo-pc1.ulb.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:51:53 this'll be useful for an emacs function. 15:52:03 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:09 ie, to evaluate a sexp 15:52:23 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:45 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 15:53:08 In my sbclrc, I have one function to require some ASDF systems (including the one I am working on= 15:53:25 Xach: doesn't exactly work as expected, think I have a better idea 15:53:36 I also want some functions to automatically call functions in those systems, but it isn't working out 15:53:37 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:20 eg (defun test-things () (funcall 'almavis::start-tests)) wil lfail because the almavis package hasn't been created when .sbclrc is compiled/evaluated 15:54:27 any way to accomplish what I want? 15:55:14 carlocci [~nes@93.37.215.72] has joined #lisp 15:55:43 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:49 oh right, macros :D 15:57:42 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:36 (let (some-string) (with-output-to-string (some-string) 15:58:36 (let ((*standard-output* some-string)) (print "here's some output"))) some-string) 15:58:40 that doesn't work 15:58:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:02 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:59:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:19 Nope, the compiler macroexpands to check what the macro will do, therefore also making it impossible to call functions in a package that doesn't exist until I run some functions 15:59:19 zc00gii: Try using what _3b` said. 15:59:50 _3b`: but then I can't really do anything with it, and it still outputs to standard-output 16:00:01 zc00gii: Incorrect. It returns the string output as its value. 16:00:06 OliverUv: use find-symbol/find-package to delay the resolution until runtime. 16:00:11 interesting 16:00:16 zc00gii: if you want more flexibility, you can use make-string-output-stream explicitly. 16:00:45 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:01:02 pkhuong: Thank you! 16:01:08 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:14 (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (print "test")) --> " \"test\" " 16:01:23 doesn't really make desired output 16:01:38 <_3b`> zc00gii: what did you expect it to do? 16:01:45 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:10 so something more like "test" 16:02:18 princ? 16:02:20 zc00gii: That's not what PRINT does. 16:02:47 I had that problem recently, actually 16:03:00 oirc 16:03:02 I wanted to output "- Something -" (without the quotes) 16:03:04 derder der 16:03:13 something coming from a symbol 16:03:21 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.202.20.31] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:03:23 yes, I like how it outputs :) 16:03:26 clhs print 16:03:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 16:03:34 I thought I'd be able to do something like (format stream "- ~A -" something) 16:03:40 but it gave me the quotes aswell 16:03:40 thanks for the help! 16:03:47 Any way to avoid that? 16:04:31 OliverUv: what you have is the right way 16:04:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-208.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:42 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:04:56 Hm, I am pretty sure I tried that combo 16:05:03 I'll go back and check once I get this other problem under control 16:05:06 <_3b`> possibly your string had quotes in it? 16:05:53 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 16:06:06 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:06:10 (print "test") outputs "test" (with quotes, freshline and a trailing space). (with-output... ) receives these characters and puts them into the result. All is fine. 16:06:11 something was a symbol 16:06:13 steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has joined #lisp 16:06:43 lisp is so powerful that i could write my own reflective and dynamic OOP system in it, couldnt i? (not that i would need to because CLOS exists) 16:07:09 steven_t: I don't see why not 16:07:13 <_3b`> well, CLOS is written in CL 16:07:17 right 16:07:24 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:07:29 its such a pain to write a reflective OOP system in C, i tell you 16:07:32 im eager to learn lisp now! 16:07:33 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has joined #lisp 16:07:46 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 i was reading On Lisp but it seems to assume i know anything about Common Lisp, which i dont 16:07:58 <_3b`> see also flavors, loops, sheeple, clon, etc 16:08:09 and i was reading Practical Common Lisp but it mentions Lisp in a Box which looks to be vaporware or betaware 16:08:13 "On Lisp" shouldn't be your first lisp book. 16:08:36 so im having trouble finding a resource to introduce me to CL :'( 16:08:48 Practical Common Lisp it is 16:08:49 practical common lisp is probably the way to go 16:08:55 o ok 16:08:56 don't worry too much about lisp in a box 16:09:01 (though I thought it existed) 16:09:07 you should be able to use any old cl 16:09:59 ok. cuz i have sbcl installed in my command line and i figured i should probably use that since its how i learned ruby 16:10:01 it exists and is as old as PCL, which means Slime and SBCL are now more evolved 16:10:15 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:25 <_3b`> if you aren't allergic to emacs, you should use sbcl through slime 16:10:27 although i think someone mentioned you really cant code lisp in an interactive interpreter, you need a full on editor like emacs + slime to even do test lisp things 16:10:42 you can use modern Slime and SBCL, only one key binding described in PCL is different 16:10:43 <_3b`> you can use the repl directly, you just miss out on a lot 16:10:45 i much prefer vim but im not religious about it 16:10:59 JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-139-163.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:15 <_3b`> unfortunately vim architecture seems to make something like slime very hard to do :( 16:11:35 minion: please tell steven_t about clbuild 16:11:36 steven_t: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:11:38 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:11:54 you can get a working slime with it 16:12:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:12:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:13:29 steven_t: I am using Limp with Vim to work with SBCL 16:13:53 steven_t: however, be aware that it doesn't indent code correctly and has some other minor quirks 16:14:57 sweet 16:15:02 works well on mac os x? 16:15:10 man. 16:15:15 woman. 16:15:22 ;) 16:15:33 learning a new language is difficult enough without letting predisposition import ancillary difficulties. 16:15:56 like my ruby fixation? 16:16:22 <_3b`> Fare: not like switching editors doesn't add its own ancillary difficulties :p 16:16:46 steven_t: I have never tried OS X 16:17:12 you should, its pretty nice for things 16:17:30 definitely would use it over windows iiwy 16:17:54 <_3b`> too bad it costs 5x as much as windows :p 16:18:54 You can likely use macports to build what you need 16:19:00 Win 7 is actually really nice 16:19:14 _3b`: mac os x is like $129 16:19:21 <_3b`> steven_t: + a mac 16:19:25 When I saw OS X's expose and other nice window management things I switched from XP to Ubuntu :) 16:19:25 oh yeah. 16:19:30 like $600 for the cheapest mac 16:19:31 seriously OT. 16:19:42 *TDT* agrees with Fade 16:19:43 <_3b`> true, back to lisp :) 16:19:49 back to wor 16:19:49 back to objc for me 16:19:50 k 16:19:52 :'( 16:19:55 if only i could use Nu 16:20:05 <_3b`> actually, if you are on osx, you could also try the CCL ide 16:20:28 thats what i hear 16:20:29 steven_t: You can use whatever you want, but keep in mind unless you kinda live in the REPL, your development in lisp is really going to be hard..think of doing rails without irb...it'd suck, same here. 16:20:38 that IDE is a pretty nice demo for the objc bridge in clozure cl, but I dunno if it's functional as an IDE. 16:20:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:20:59 I personally use emacs, slime, and sbcl on OSX..works well 16:22:12 emacs + slime is definitely the way to go on the free CL side. 16:22:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22:17 Fade: which ide, ccl? 16:22:31 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-237-4.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 16:22:45 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:50 clozure CL ships with an IDE written using a cl<->objc bridge to the native OSX graphics tk. 16:23:09 but the editor is vaguely emacs-like. 16:23:14 ah gotcha 16:23:21 *steven_t* loathes Tk on Mac 16:23:37 antoni [~user@108.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:42 I meant tool kit in the general sense. 16:23:49 ahhh 16:23:51 sweet 16:23:52 not in the tcl/tk specific sense. 16:23:56 the widgets are native. 16:24:04 yeah i need to look into that then 16:24:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:24:53 even if it did Fade, steven_t should still look at it. Being too domatic about what to use is going to get in the way of learning the language. 16:25:04 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:13 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:25:25 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 16:25:36 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:43 the hack of the century 16:25:52 that's some claim.. 16:25:53 (swank::escape-non-ascii (product-description product)) 16:26:08 I had that nasty one in production code 16:26:18 s/hack/kludge/ 16:26:52 well, it _is_ a young century 16:26:55 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 16:27:03 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:06 heh 16:27:39 steven_t: I'm just learning Lisp too, and have found Clozure CL comfortable for experimenting. Maybe later I will finish customizing the Aquamacs+SLIME+SBCL setup. 16:27:56 clozure CL is an excellent common lisp. 16:27:59 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:02 You should definitely use clbuild instead of asdf-install 16:28:08 I cannot find in iolib the definition of the %make- functions such as %make-local-stream-active-socket. Where are they defined or generated? 16:28:30 generated 16:28:50 peterhil: I'd say that depends :) 16:28:51 fusss: as in you were using swank's non-ascii-banishing code for non-swank stuff? 16:28:59 i dunno, i jsut ran `svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.5/darwinx86/ccl` a minute ago 16:29:17 rsynnott: *very* non-swank stuff; billing reports 16:29:20 eek 16:29:55 fe[nl]ix: got it. 16:30:09 vedm [~vedm@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 16:30:10 I was searching for %make but you format it from :make... 16:30:13 Thanks. 16:30:22 fusss: unusual, anyway :) 16:30:37 TDT: Definitely. :-) 16:30:39 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:31:10 rsynnott: i must have done (apropos "escape-") and picked the first 'functioning' one. thank goodness i run production code under slime anyway. 16:32:32 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:42 -!- vedm [~vedm@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:52 -!- oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:05 ignore-errors should be treated with the same caution as sniffing glue; something fun, but reserved for those very special occasions when one no longer cares .. 16:35:38 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:39 vedm [~vedm@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:42 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:36:44 -!- vedm [~vedm@gprs57.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:31 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:32 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:53 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:38:20 In the asdf-howto it says that we should use a specific package for our defsystem. Is that still true? 16:38:52 pjb`: no. 16:39:07 pjb`: not unconditionally 16:39:11 And is it ok to do it in :asdf like describde in the manual? 16:39:14 Guest79873 [~root@li62-127.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:15 test 16:39:30 -!- Guest79873 [~root@li62-127.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 16:39:43 pjb`: hmm, i don't know. 16:40:28 Well, I think I'll go on with just using ASDF:DEFSYSTEM and not specifying any package in my asd files... 16:40:33 it is recommended to use your own package 16:40:35 pjb`: that is my practice 16:40:41 Good. 16:40:43 pjb`: and if it is wrong, i don't want to be right! 16:40:59 ah, in the .asd file - no I don't specify package there iether 16:41:02 tps 16:44:01 -!- antoni [~user@108.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:42 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:09 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 16:51:07 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-26-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:08 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:10 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:01 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:49 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:43 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:00:50 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 17:02:08 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-195-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:04:24 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-92435.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:05:40 -!- _3b` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:48 _3b` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:35 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:46 Anyone know how to make a clim window resizable? 17:14:54 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:22 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest71621 17:15:37 az [~az@2a01:4f8:101:4a2::9c00] has joined #lisp 17:16:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.202.20.31] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:13 Good evening! 17:23:34 OliverUv: You make the min and max sizes different. 17:26:01 beach: ah, thank you! 17:26:01 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:05 josemanuel [~josemanue@70.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:26:30 OliverUv: You may have to do that in the layout section in the application frame. 17:27:58 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:36 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:14 now that I see lisp is case insensitive, is there any "good practices" on whether to write lowercase or uppercase (please no)? 17:29:46 <_3b`> lowercase is more readable 17:29:49 loxs: Lisp is not case insensitive, it is just that the default reader parameter translates symbols to uppercase. 17:30:13 beach, and why is that? 17:30:26 Uhm, I find :width and :height properties or both layout and application, no max/min sizes 17:30:30 loxs: For historical reasons, I would think. 17:30:54 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-195-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:31:16 that's the way the ITS boxes at MIT worked? 17:31:20 17:31:20 hm, the examples had :max things so I can see how it works now 17:31:43 -!- Guest71621 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 17:31:51 OliverUv: Look at 29.3.1 17:34:30 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:34:39 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:51 loxs[] [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:03 Fade: not exactly that, but close - 6 bit charsets were popular back then 17:35:25 :) 17:35:43 standard Pascal is limited to ten characters without case sensitivity because its symbols were truncated to fit into 60bit machine word 17:36:01 fwiw, I think case-sensitivity is a desirable feature, but in practice I rarely run into any issues. 17:36:15 -!- dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:47 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:38:41 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 17:40:24 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:40:46 hmmm 17:41:00 McClim doesn't seem to care about max-height 17:41:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112912 17:41:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:05 OliverUv: Did you put it in the layout section, as in (vertically (:max-height ...))? 17:42:19 burton [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has joined #lisp 17:42:20 yes 17:42:22 ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 17:42:26 And my panes specify no dimensions 17:43:02 symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:12 -!- burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:43:25 The way space requirements are combined is a bit of a mystery. You had better not rely on it too much if you are going to port it to commercial CLIM at some later point. 17:43:28 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:51 yeah right now I just want to make all parts of the app viewable :p 17:43:52 -!- symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 17:43:55 symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:56 also the scrollbar isn't working, for some reason 17:43:57 -!- burton [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has left #lisp 17:44:02 Oh? 17:46:04 Hm, had a (vertically () ..) in the control pane so tried adding the width and height things to that aswell 17:46:08 didn\t help 17:46:18 Yeah, the scrollbar seems to think everything is being displayed 17:46:39 I can expand and contract the app as much as I want horizontally, but vertically I am not allowed to change its size at all 17:49:23 fusss_ [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 urgh 17:51:35 -!- davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:51:46 Wait a minute, somewhere along the line I've lost my scroll-bar option, so at least I can do something about that 17:52:09 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:20 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 17:52:28 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:18 notrael [~notrael@purpletree.org] has joined #lisp 17:55:04 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 17:55:31 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 17:57:39 -!- svitalnes [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:00:47 Humm, nope it was an application pane which should have both scrollbars by default 18:06:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:06:46 moah [~gnu@188.109.195.246] has joined #lisp 18:08:13 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:26 astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-239.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:09:51 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 18:11:07 -!- loxs[] [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:13:10 svitalnes [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:15:08 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:22 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-84-77.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:15:46 Hmm, what's the easiest way to make compile-file abort completely? 18:15:57 *Xach* has an (error ...) form, but sbcl just reports it and plows ahead 18:16:21 Xach: is the error form evaluated at compile time?? 18:16:40 Yeah. 18:16:45 whoa 18:16:45 Xach: i believe this was broken some time ago 18:17:09 stassats: and not fixed? 18:17:14 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:14 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:29 it was meant for better error reporting under slime, if that's what i'm thinking it is 18:20:43 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 ; caught 1 fatal ERROR condition 18:21:12 ; caught 3 ERROR conditions 18:21:37 I wonder how to upgrade the non-fatal ERROR i signaled to a fatal ERROR condition 18:21:42 what is the lisp equivalent of list comprehensions? or what's the lisp-y way of doing the same? 18:22:01 loxs: map, reduce, loop, etc. 18:22:12 loxs: There are at least two implementations of the idea for CL, but I don't think I've ever seen someone use them. 18:23:11 plediii_ [~plediii@nat-168-7-237-4.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:17 stassats, map, reduce etc are not list comprehensions in the sense it's used in python (originally came from haskell as far as I know) 18:23:25 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:26 Xach, and what do you use do to such things? 18:24:01 loxs: map, reduce, loop, etc. 18:24:09 dotimes, dolist 18:24:11 loxs: loop is probably the closest thing to how python's list comprehensions work. 18:24:49 but there are other (sometimes nicer) ways to do similar things. 18:25:18 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-237-4.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:25:18 -!- plediii_ is now known as plediii 18:25:44 could you please show me the equivalend (preferably as elegant as this) to this: [x for x in [1, 2, 3] if not x % 2] 18:25:56 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:26:31 (I still fail something trivial about how lists in lisp work) 18:26:38 (remove-if-not (lambda (x) (mod x 2)) '(1 2 3)) 18:26:53 errr 18:27:15 remove-if ... zerop 18:27:29 clhs evenp 18:27:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_evenpc.htm 18:27:34 '(1 2 3) is a shortcut to (list 1 2 3)? 18:27:38 no 18:27:41 Xach: there were people in here talking about elevating error conditions just a few days ago 18:27:41 loxs: no 18:27:49 minion: tell xach about logs 18:27:49 xach: look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:27:53 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 18:27:58 hope they're searchable! 18:28:06 or (loop for x in '(1 2 3) when (oddp x) collect x) 18:28:14 [or something like that] 18:28:22 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 18:28:27 *sykopomp* waits for a fancy DO version! 18:28:34 (remove-if #'oddp '(1 2 3)) 18:29:19 the last one is certainly even more elegant than python 18:29:36 Xach: the proble is that sb-c:compiler-error isn't a subtype of ERROR 18:29:43 The Python version seems like a special case that happens to work sometimes. 18:29:57 (handler-bind ((sb-c:compiler-error #'abort)) (compile-file file)) seems to abort it 18:30:21 beach, well, in python it works every time. And is heavily used :) 18:30:29 stassats: you meant remove-if-not 18:30:36 OliverUv: i don't 18:30:57 You didn't want to duplicate what beach did? 18:31:06 loxs: OK, so how do you write a similar thing which returns a list of all elements where the preceding element has the same parity (odd or even)? 18:31:08 OliverUv: no, i didn't 18:31:47 beach, that's the reason I'm coming to lisp :) 18:31:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:01 and now I see, I'm coming for a good reason :) 18:32:14 seems like lisp will fit my brain (even better than python) 18:32:18 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 18:32:28 loxs: So, I repeat, The Python version seems like a special case that happens to work sometimes. Lisp is not like that. It has general mechanisms that can be combined freely. 18:32:32 If only I could memorize all those function/macro names :) 18:32:35 beach: what would you do with the first element? 18:32:50 stassats: It is unimportant for this discussion. 18:33:05 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 18:33:16 loxs: that's part of learning any language. 18:33:20 including python. 18:33:55 there's only 978 symbols in CL 18:33:57 sykopomp, at least for now, lisp names seem a bit (ok, a lot) more cryptic :) 18:34:25 loxs: You shall have to do better than that. 18:34:48 beach, what do you mean? 18:34:52 what could be more cryptic than remove-if-not? let me guess, some special syntax with square brackets 18:35:15 hmm, well, maybe you are right 18:35:49 beach: **** Today 18:35:49 ***** Clockwork 18:35:49 ****** QA Meeting @10:30a 18:35:49 ***** Girl Scouts 18:35:51 ****** Frontend and backend testing! 18:35:54 ***** KMart 18:35:56 loxs: You know perfectly well (or at least I hope you do) that this particular aspect of a language has absolutely no importance whatsoever, other than in the very initial learning phase, which quickly becomes unimportant to your productivity in that language. 18:35:57 ****** Put up tickets for client's issues. 18:35:59 sykopomp: er 18:36:00 **** Queue 18:36:05 ***** KMart 18:36:08 ****** Close bugs (when they're actually fixed...) 18:36:11 ***** AMM 3.4 18:36:14 ****** Regression testing 18:36:17 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 18:36:18 ****** Upgrade testing 18:36:18 ****** Bugclosing 18:36:19 -!- sykopomp [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (come back) 18:36:31 stassats, but it's not as obvious (still don't get it) with #'oddp 18:36:34 *beach* is waiting for some jucy contents here. 18:37:06 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:22 Sorry about that... 18:37:24 beach, sure, that's not a reason to dislike lisp. In fact this is (for now) the only thing that I don't like very much 18:37:26 p is a convention for predicate 18:37:34 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 18:37:43 sykopomp: i had to kick you to keep the launch codes secret 18:37:53 thank you. 18:37:57 stassats: except for atom 18:37:59 *jpanest* ducks 18:38:10 X11's clipboard can go to hell. 18:38:46 jpanest: well, it's a convention, not an absolute rule 18:38:53 jpanest: and null! 18:38:57 stassats: i was just kidding =) 18:39:24 beach: (loop for (a b) on '(2 4 6 8) by #'cddr for pair = (list a b) when (or (every #'oddp pair) (every #'evenp pair)) collect b) 18:39:28 OliverUv: time to toss the whole thing out and start over 18:39:28 not sure how to make that better :( 18:39:41 Hi Xach, this is Eric. I sat next to you at dinner on Monday. 18:39:48 jpanest: haha 18:39:49 I'm not sure if anyone else here was there. 18:40:18 oconnore: at the talk, couldnt make dinner sadly 18:40:25 francogrex [~user@109.130.130.63] has joined #lisp 18:40:27 oconnore: howdy! 18:40:38 Currently I'm reading Practical Common Lisp. It's a great book. But is there something like a "cheatsheet"? Not an extensive manual, but something small to look up the most basic things when I need them? 18:40:44 jpanest, that's too bad, it was tasty! 18:40:54 loxs: CLHS? :) 18:41:10 there is a cheatsheet though... 18:41:15 loxs: the specs there is a master index 18:41:30 loxs: http://clqr.berlios.de/ perhaps 18:41:37 sykopomp: that doesn't seem to be doing what's needed 18:41:48 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:58 stassats: "collect b when a is the same arity"? 18:42:28 ohh 18:42:29 <_3b`> sykopomp: (loop for parity = t then (oddp x) for x in '(1 2 4 6 3 1) when (eq parity (oddp x)) collect x) ? 18:42:42 Yeah CLHS seems more like an "extensive manual" to me :) 18:43:10 _3b`: oooh 18:43:27 stassats: I see what you mean now, yeah. 18:43:30 _3b`: I *like* it! 18:43:34 <_3b`> probably should have factored out the duplicated (oddp x) too 18:43:45 thanks Xach. That seems like the right thing 18:44:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:44:25 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:44:54 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:42 speaking of the specs is the X3J13/94-101 (version 15.17) the same or similar to the hyperspecs of today? 18:47:22 nobody cares about them, CLHS is the defacto standard 18:48:02 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:48:10 what is the relationship 18:48:29 <_3b`> hyperspec is html version of a late draft of the real spec 18:48:57 ok so those I have are drafts before the final 18:49:29 and where are the "real specs"? 18:49:45 stored at the institute? 18:49:46 <_3b`> if you didn't pay ansi (or whoever it is now) a bunch of money for a pdf full of scans, you probably don't have the 'real' spec 18:50:10 francogrex: ANSI is a standardisation organization. You can buy it from them (though rumors have it that the quality of what you get is not so great). 18:50:12 <_3b`> (or a hardcopy, dunno if they still make those or not) 18:50:13 _3b`: no I only have a draft in ps format 18:50:54 <_3b`> (actually, i guess hyperspec might be based on the final, not completely sure about that) 18:51:06 beach: yeah, it's ok I have the specs, just wanted to know if what I have was useful (i'l cleaning up my pc) 18:51:45 francogrex: Very likely not useful. 18:52:00 <_3b`> it is pretty common for draft specs to be used more than the real ones in a lot of fields 18:52:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:52:24 <_3b`> (or at least a more languages than CL) 18:52:59 What was the purpose of dealing with a standards organization, as opposed to simply setting up your own committee, and releasing something signed off on by all relevant parties? 18:53:11 does Common LISP. The Language. Second Edition cover the standar 18:53:15 standard* 18:53:21 Guthur: No 18:53:31 ok, just checking 18:53:46 <_3b`> 'real' standards were more important at that time, particularly for some of the markets CL was big in 18:53:54 sykopomp: That committee would be essentially the same as a standards organization. 18:54:29 sykopomp: I am guessing the difference has to do with the reputation of the standards organization. 18:54:29 *francogrex* sends the X3J13/94-101 (version 15.17) to the recycle bin 18:55:45 -!- benny [~user@i577A7CE8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:37 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:01 i was very surprised when I ordered an ANSI pdf and I got an unsearchable collection of scans 18:58:45 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:04 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:15 what does #' in #'oddp mean? What should I read about the # part? 18:59:24 <_3b`> clhs #' 18:59:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhb.htm 19:00:29 <_3b`> #'oddp READs as (function oddp), which returns function bound to the symbol oddp 19:00:29 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-85-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:45 jpanest: I think those institutes are a little backward in terms of tecknology, more like gov facilities 19:01:02 Someone said they lost the sources. 19:02:28 <_3b`> francogrex: fwiw, http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/b90327febacf7911 says how that file relates to the actual spec 19:02:34 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02:41 ahha. Now I get it. It's the same as (remove-if-not (function oddp) '(1 2 3)) 19:02:54 thanks folks, you saved me lots of head scratching 19:02:58 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.202.20.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:21 (remove-if-not (function oddp) (quote (1 2 3))) if you want to go all the way down 19:04:07 clhs ' 19:04:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dc.htm 19:04:33 clhs quote 19:04:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm 19:04:39 cool bot :) 19:04:58 Oh, I am sure they have a more elegant one in #python. 19:05:10 Or, at least with a less cryptic name. 19:05:21 minion: chant 19:05:21 MORE ELEGANT 19:05:50 now minion is *very* cool bot. 19:06:18 beach, as a matter of fact, after 3 hours of learning lisp, I already know that I'm writing my next program in lisp :) 19:06:45 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:06:47 benny [~user@i577A87FC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:47 hello 19:06:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:06:48 loxs: That should teach to to have a less critical attitude to languages you know nothing about. 19:06:53 hello ost 19:07:26 ost: I have been wondering whether your nick was deliberately chosen as the Swedish word for "cheese". 19:07:31 beach, in fact I think I already know enough to write quite some stuff :) 19:07:52 my nick is my initials 19:08:45 and now I know one swedish word =) 19:08:55 I always think of the German word 19:08:59 loxs: I repeat, you would look a lot less silly next time if you assumed that the new language actually had some point to it, rather than starting by assuming that it can't be done as elegantly as in some language you know. 19:09:17 after 5 years of learning lisp i know that i don't know enough 19:09:20 ost: It makes me hungry whenever I see it. 19:09:49 ephcon_ [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 19:09:54 hm 19:10:06 beach, in fact I didn't state that something can't be done as elegantly. I was just asking for the elegant way :) 19:10:21 loxs: The meaning was clear, though. 19:10:27 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:10:30 loxs: And the names are still cryptic. 19:10:40 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:47 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:05 loxs: But it no longer matters. Good luck with Lisp and keep us updated wrt to your progress. 19:11:25 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 19:11:44 I'm grateful for the help 19:12:09 and I hope I don't get myself banned from the cannel for silly questions :) 19:12:43 just don't paste your day's todo list. 19:13:03 haha 19:13:09 [do nothing] 19:13:11 oops! 19:13:22 stassats: Again? 19:13:58 Oh, no that was sykopomp before wasn't it? 19:14:10 beach: yes :( 19:14:18 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.21.0, GNU CLISP 2.49, SBCL 1.0.40 19:17:08 OK, my next silly question. What would be the web server/framework that will be easier for someone with experience with things like Django, Pylons, Ruby on Rails. It doesn't need to be MVC (that's what I'm trying to escape from) 19:17:23 Today, I made some progress on (the implementation of) CLIM3. Looking through the CLIM2 spec, I can tell that, given what I have, large parts of it will either become irrelevant or copied with minor modifications, which is good news. 19:17:46 minion: tell loxs about hunchentoot. 19:17:47 loxs: please see hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a robust and easy to use HTTP server. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 19:18:07 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 19:18:10 *beach* doesn't know what web-programmers are looking for in such a frame work. 19:18:11 mtk [~mtk@host251.diamondbackcap.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:11 <_3b`> loxs: there aren't any winners yet for lisp web 'frameworks' 19:18:12 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.120] has joined #lisp 19:19:00 <_3b`> loxs: most of the serious web devs i've heard about all use their own, smaller scale stuff tends to just use hunchentoot 19:19:46 <_3b`> the main active ones i know of are ucw/lol/ftw, weblocks, and the dwim.hu stuff 19:20:10 i think web4r and weblocks are both quite nice 19:20:42 and hunchentoot is very win :P 19:21:24 beach: i wonder the same thing 19:21:29 In fact I'm searching for something like "microframework". something just enough to hide the lower level http stuff from my application logic, but not try to impoze me stuff 19:21:44 check out web4r 19:22:03 minion, tell me about web4r 19:22:03 loxs: have a look at web4r: The end of the page was reached before a definition was found in http://www.cliki.net/web4r 19:22:14 http://web4r.org/ 19:22:41 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:59 loxs: hunchentoot alone is quite useful by itself. 19:23:33 I guess I'll try them both 19:23:40 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:02 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:08 <_3b`> beach: 'written by someone with more domain knowledge than me' is one thing i would look for in a framework 19:25:41 certainly 19:25:50 *francogrex* is astonished about minion's capabilities. There is a bot called candid on another channel but he's noy half as smart 19:26:02 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A42CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:04 <_3b`> (or more knowledge of language features that i don't use much, but which might be useful, like the mop/contextl/etc in drewc's web stuff) 19:27:48 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:01 asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has joined #lisp 19:29:30 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:34:41 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 19:34:51 Hi guys 19:34:53 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:22 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:31 Any clx experts around? 19:35:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:32 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.132] has joined #lisp 19:36:45 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:27 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:38:49 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:39:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.130.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:22 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-139-163.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:45 -!- mtk [~mtk@host251.diamondbackcap.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:06 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-239.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 19:42:09 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:27 wow, even OR is called as a function. 19:42:54 that's neat 19:43:01 are you sure? i thought it'd be a macro 19:43:05 <_3b`> note that it isn't actually a function 19:43:54 <_3b`> having everything work (more or less) the same way is nice though :) 19:43:55 i guess OR could be a function in a language like Haskell 19:44:17 <_3b`> it could be a function in CL too, if you didn't mind typing (lambda () ) everywhere 19:44:34 I still don't know what is "macro" in lisp :) 19:44:50 <_3b`> not too important to worry about for now 19:44:55 pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:07 <_3b`> basically it is a way to let you write things with different evaluation rules from normal functions 19:45:20 I know from rumors (mighty stuff), but still haven't got the slightest idea about it 19:45:55 <_3b`> when you call a function, all arguments are evaluated, then the results are passed to the function 19:46:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:15 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e6799-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 19:46:56 hmm, and for OR it's one by one 19:47:21 <_3b`> so for example if OR was a function, (or T (print "foo")) would evaluate T and (print "foo") before calling OR 19:47:54 <_3b`> but since it is a macro, it can avoid evaluating the (print "foo") since it knows the T is enough for the whole thing to return T 19:48:27 figured out it was a (vertically () ...) in a panel that made McClim lock the window height 19:48:47 now trying to figure out how to manage without it, or change it so it allows height changes 19:49:05 yeah, now I only have to learn how to write the macros myself :) 19:49:14 (maybe not exactly now :)) 19:49:15 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:23 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:38 loxs: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/macros-defining-your-own.html 19:49:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:46 <_3b`> well, macros are just normal functions that are run during compilation, so most it is just a matter of learning the rest of CL :) 19:50:16 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:40 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:48 bfein, reading the same book, but still havent gotten that far :) 19:50:59 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:16 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 19:58:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:09 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:45 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:00:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:10 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 20:01:21 I am really astonished by how simple the language is (or at least looks) 20:01:49 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has left #lisp 20:03:42 vedm [~user@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:06:18 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:29 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:07:08 I have a C variable: const char* foo[] = {...} So in CFFI I do a (defcvar ("foo" +foo+ :read-only t) (:pointer :string)) Then, I want to read string at pos 0: (mem-aref +foo+ :string 0) 20:07:14 But I get some memory error 20:07:34 Any ideas? 20:10:11 Also, if your lisp isn't compiled macros are just functions that change some lists around, and then executes the resulting list as a function 20:11:13 Hmmm, mem-ref also doesn't work... 20:11:15 simply put, a function where you choose when and if the arguments are evaluated, instead of them always being evaluated before the function's body is run 20:11:56 And you can't e.g. map with a macro 20:12:50 anyone here know about editing cliki from within emacs? i'm attempting to use yaoddmuse-mode but, can't quite configure it to successfully load/edit a page from cliki. 20:13:06 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:13:40 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:13:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112915 20:13:50 is the error and my config 20:14:18 my guess is that the config is wrong. 20:14:19 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@70.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:14:27 hmm. I think I'm starting to understand what macros are for. thanks 20:15:08 with macros you can build your own control structures 20:15:19 you can say "wrap this code in this other code before it is run" 20:15:29 you can make life a living hell for yourself if you're not careful, too 20:16:31 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:20:05 clop, map 20:20:32 clhs map 20:20:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 20:21:10 sorry 20:22:51 can't figure out how to provide the "type specifier" 20:23:22 f(1) f(2) f(3) f(4) ... 20:25:34 clhs 4.2.3 20:25:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 20:25:38 loxs: 20:27:15 wow, what a lot 20:28:16 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:19 loxs: look at the examples section for map 20:29:15 yeah, looked at it after a bit of repl-ing :) 20:30:53 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 20:30:54 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:43 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-254-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-254-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 hadronzoo [~user@adsl-162-148-133.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-82.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:38:20 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-195-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:41:05 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 <_3b`> hmm, cliki need better spam cleaning tools :/ 20:41:51 woo hoo abcl for all of y'all 20:42:07 *Xach* hopes the d-b bug is fixed! 20:45:14 Snamich [~Snamich@97-119-20-220.omah.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:07 -!- jlf` is now known as jlf 20:49:49 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.35.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:54:07 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.195.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:35 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:36 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 20:54:51 can anyone think of a better way to do this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/112917 20:55:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:30 <_3b`> you don't need the #' there 20:57:43 <_3b`> you could make the arg to the lambda optional, and default to stepping 20:57:44 Snamich: shiftf may come in handy. 20:58:02 e.g. (shiftf n1 n2 (+ n1 n2)) 20:58:48 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 20:59:15 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:01 okay, made those changes, shiftf really cleaned it up 21:03:36 is that a decent way to go about making a stream like that? 21:03:46 -!- ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:53 Snamich: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112917#1 21:04:35 sykopomp: no need for prog1. 21:04:58 reset is equivalent to just creating a new closure 21:04:59 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:05:09 Xach: oh! 21:05:17 yeah, shiftf returns the argument of the first place 21:05:27 wonderful :) 21:05:31 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:37 beautiful 21:06:16 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has joined #lisp 21:06:36 Xach: wow, thanks for the shoutout on your slides 21:06:41 What tools does one have for memory tuning and auditing of SBCL images on debian/linux 21:08:41 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:49 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:54 froydnj: well, i'd be twiddling my thumbs without chipz and ironclad. i guess i could get something going with something like deflate.cl, but bleh 21:11:44 14WAA0D4V [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has joined #lisp 21:11:45 5EXAA69ET [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 -!- 14WAA0D4V [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:04 -!- 5EXAA69ET [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:08 http://www.method-combination.net/lisp/chipz/ The Salza link here needs to be updated. 21:12:29 asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has joined #lisp 21:14:29 froydnj: can you suggest a way to extract a particular digester from ironclad's support structure? i'd like to have a smaller standalone version of one or two of the hashes for key verification. 21:14:42 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-195-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:16:10 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:17:44 I have a lisp image that is essentially slowly but steadily leaking memory. (room) consistently shows the same value, and I'm using clsql/uffi, which I'm assuming is where the memory is being leaked. 21:18:19 what are my options to profile this? How would people go about attacking this problem, and possibly fixing it. 21:18:44 (room is showing the same value, but top is showing an ever increasing resident memory footprint) 21:19:15 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:37 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:16 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:32 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:41 -!- vedm [~user@84-73-159-214.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:34 Xach: there's no quick way to do it 21:23:57 ok 21:24:37 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:42 Shaftoe_: when i had clsql ffi problems, i punted by not using foreign libraries 21:24:53 Shaftoe_: that works ok for postgres, less well for other systems 21:25:20 Xach: hmm. I didn't know that was an option. 21:25:27 Xach: you maintain full functionality? 21:25:34 Shaftoe_: I suspect you could try running it under valgrind... but that's higher level wizardry 21:25:37 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:37 I have no idea how Valgrind will interact with SBCL 21:26:01 Shaftoe_: sure. 21:26:17 Xach: this is standard configuration of CLSQL? 21:28:15 Xach: or did you actually modify code? 21:28:23 Shaftoe_: it's called pg-socket or something like that. 21:28:37 Shaftoe_: the postmodern library also speaks the postgres protocol directly from lisp. 21:28:54 I'm acutally using unixodbc. 21:28:59 but I will look at this. 21:29:11 Shaftoe_: then you are shit out of luck, as far as i know, regarding no FFI. 21:29:21 Xach: ... argh =) 21:29:27 Postgres is the only thing in clsql, and I've seen a mysql implementation separately somewhere. 21:30:30 girlhot [ircap@189.194.184.213] has joined #lisp 21:30:59 Alright. so I'm going to eventually have to roll up my sleeves and do this thing (trying to fix the UFFI problems). It helps I have C\C++ odbc experience and know just how hairy and horrible that code is. especially blob stuff. 21:31:36 is it possible in SBCL to allocate memory into "zones". Just large chunks of VM areas that are used by a specific heap? 21:31:43 urandom__ [~user@p548A6486.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:54 Shaftoe_: afaik not, but you're welcome to try adding that... 21:32:09 I think the simplest way to handle this issue would be to make all memory operations for a specific db connection be restrained to a zone. 21:32:20 Yay! My first sbcl contrib candidate! 21:32:40 *_3b`* wouldn't expect changing SBCL allocation to affect FFI allocation 21:32:43 astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-239.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:33:08 it won't affect the memory leak. it'll just mean that when I scrap a db connection, all of its internal memory leaks go along with it. 21:33:15 so I don't have to restart the image itself. 21:33:39 <_3b`> i mean if it is leaking memory sbcl doesn't know about, changing sbcl won't help 21:34:28 _3b`: I hear you. the plan though is to allow memory "zones", (essentially separate heaps) which I then instruct UFFI to use. 21:34:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:34:44 _3b`: effectively quarantining all UFFI memory allocations to a particular zone. 21:34:45 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:35:01 then, when I ditch the db connection, I also free the associated zone. 21:35:37 <_3b`> hmm, clever spammers... links with margin:left -900px, or with color matching text so it doesn't look like a link (and link text being similar to a word in the original text) 21:35:49 ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 21:35:51 I'm really not sure how I'd go about doing this in sbcl, but I do know it's done in both windows and osx. 21:36:11 Alright. Signing off. Im sure I'll lurk around here to ask more questions about this. 21:37:19 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725148.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 21:38:05 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-194-156.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:25 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:40:14 any particular reason fn's that start with check- are colored red in emacs? Is that to do with CL, or elisp? 21:40:26 well, red in my setup 21:41:50 <_3b`> it assumes they are things like check-type that will assert if the check fails (and someone decided things like that should be highlighted) 21:42:15 bytecolor: presumably because check-type is red, and the highlighting is being creative ... in my slime it also colours define-foo's purple. 21:43:04 hrm, ok. That's how I've been using my check- fn's; as assertions 21:43:08 *_3b`* wonders if rel="follow" actually does any good for the spam 21:43:27 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-92435.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 I was thinking check- was possibly reserved in CL 21:44:57 Nope. 21:45:35 if it's not in (find-package :cl), it's not in CL :) 21:46:03 nod, I just aproposed 'cl-user and found no 'check- 21:49:43 Why the hell would anyone want to use any other language than cl, it's fscking magic ;) Really, the more I learn about it the more my mind is blown. 21:49:55 I know, I'm preaching to the choir ;) 21:52:49 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:22 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 21:55:11 lindasexihot [~ircap@189.194.190.122] has joined #lisp 21:55:21 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:22 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:03 -!- girlhot [ircap@189.194.184.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:57:57 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:59:24 bytecolor: CL is like magnets. And Apple products. And double rainbows. 21:59:29 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e4988-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 21:59:51 It's not uncommon for someone to look and CL code and exclaim to themselves: "What does it *mean*?!" 22:02:21 dto: Can't help with your particular issue, but I always use firefox with the textedit plugin. The plugin starts emacs and I use that to edit the page. 22:02:39 <_3b`> yay, some of the spam is already back :( 22:02:57 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:00 -!- symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:21 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:08:07 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 22:11:13 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 22:11:13 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 22:12:59 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:00 -!- lindasexihot [~ircap@189.194.190.122] has quit [K-Lined] 22:17:04 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:25 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:47 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:33 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-239.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:24:00 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:24:00 abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 22:24:42 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 22:30:08 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-92435.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:33:32 davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has joined #lisp 22:39:35 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:40:33 I managed to fix the error where McClim wouldn't let me resize a window's height 22:41:04 Following the specs didn't work, but setting height to +fill+ finally let me choose any height I wanted. max-height and min-height seems to be ignored by some things 22:41:18 xan_ [~xan@62.140.137.132] has joined #lisp 22:43:19 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:45:02 *_3b`* wonders if the spammer claiming to be 'Admin' is supposed to make people think they shouldn't revert the spam 22:46:18 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:47:45 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 "oh it's the admin, I'd better buy his viagra!" 22:56:19 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:39 -!- davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:47 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:02:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-185-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:17 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.47] has joined #lisp 23:03:43 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:04:13 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:02 Xach: Do you give the code for planet lisp away? 23:05:52 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:15 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 23:11:58 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.67] has joined #lisp 23:13:20 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:37 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:38 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:24:39 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:39 cYmen: yes. 23:30:52 DCC GET\rPRIVMSG\40#lisp\40:lisp\40sucks\r 23:30:52 LISP SUCKS 23:30:52 LISP SUCKS 23:31:04 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:31:20 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 23:31:25 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*nibiru@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-crowwutdrwjnhijd 23:31:30 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*OsamaBinW@*.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com 23:31:44 Xach: Does that mean it's already available somewhere and I missed it? :) 23:31:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:00 cYmen: my link is busted, just a moment 23:32:10 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:28 http://xach.com/lisp/newscluster.tgz is approximately what runs planet lisp 23:34:40 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-33.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:55 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:37:55 -!- hadronzoo [~user@adsl-162-148-133.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:14 hmm 23:39:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:19 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 23:39:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.140.137.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:50 Anyone looked at Ron Garret's Ciel? (http://github.com/rongarret/Ciel) 23:41:07 "the project that aimed for clojure and hit arc" 23:41:54 -!- pavitras [~Pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:28 Xach: just looked at the quicklisp slides. 23:45:33 Xach: looks cool 23:45:39 how much of it works? 23:45:54 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 23:47:06 dto: an all-platforms client works, sans gpg validation 23:47:18 thats cool. 23:47:30 dto: we chitchat about it on #quicklisp - i can give you some urls to try 23:47:46 you can try it without clobbering your current lisp activity, it's pretty self-contained 23:48:45 Xach: i've been making an issues/plans/projects list related to lisp games: http://www.cliki.net/LispGameIssues and i think it'll eventually touch on issues like delivering prerequisites. 23:48:50 which is great. 23:49:03 for example i have an SD card with cave story on it 23:49:16 and i can bring it to different computers and resume my game 23:49:46 i like the idea of distributing an optional multi-platform install, where you put it on any SD card and can resume your game regardless of whether you plug the card into a mac, pc, linux 23:50:01 maybe it's orthogonal but i'm looking into everything i can to avoid reinventing 23:50:10 Xach: Cool, thanks. (Sorry for the delay; network breakdown.) 23:51:04 *Xach* waves dto over 23:51:32 <_3b`> oh, /I/ added the spam that time, guess i don't need to revert that one :p 23:51:44 -!- oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:51:56 *_3b`* wonders if it is actually someone doing it by hand or something 23:52:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-195-129.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:53:12 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:49 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:14 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:58:21 Xach: did you actually look at Ciel to make that assessment? 23:58:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:58:48 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 gigamonkey: I did look at it. 23:59:22 also, what quicklisp slides? 23:59:32 http://twitter.com/quicklisp has a link