00:00:34 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:03:28 -!- ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:54 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:40 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:02 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 nyef: Good that it works on sparc, but bad that it no longer works on freebsd and linux. 00:09:54 Ah. 00:09:55 But the lisp assembly is not the cause of the failure. It's something else, mostly likely related to how the linker script works. 00:10:03 Fair enough. 00:10:36 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:15 The issue was that when the executable was created, undefined_tramp and closure_tramp moved, but the core still had the old versions. I never figured out how to get the linker to put them at a fixed address. 00:13:06 Your other option, btw, was to have a utility to walk the core spaces and -fix- the FDEFINITION objects that required it... Umm... And the instances of SET-FDEFN-FUN VOPs, which would, admittedly, be more difficult. 00:13:15 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:15:01 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:15:41 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:19 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:41 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:53 Yeah, I thought about it, but too much work. The vops would be ok, though, because they looked up the tramp address from the linkage table. 00:21:38 ... Then how is it too much work? Loop over static and dynamic spaces, bumping the pointer by looking it up in sizetab, and when you run into an fdefn-widetag, whatever it's called, and the fdefn-fun isn't a simple-fun, smash the raw-addr. 00:21:45 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:48 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:59 A -lot- less trouble than relocating the heap spaces. 00:22:34 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:07 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-skrsxissixehrxgd] has joined #lisp 00:24:31 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:08 fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:53 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:45 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77.46.169.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:02 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:32:30 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:20 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:40 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:42 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.135.218] has joined #lisp 00:35:26 Ok, I guess I was too lazy. I never used the executable feature on linux when it was working either. 00:35:57 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:36:23 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 00:37:04 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.140.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:54 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:20 Yeah, I rarely use SBCL's executable feature. 00:40:24 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:46 Though, more so now that I've got a separate environment for my own stuff. 00:41:31 Okay, test suite going again, hopefully the latest round of changes has unbroken ROOM, even if it can't have fixed it. 00:43:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:23 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:05 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:46:33 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:40 daniel [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:11 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:47:33 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:32 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:49:19 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:37 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:39 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:52:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:16 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 01:00:58 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:04:24 hey, anybody got any idea of why this doesn't work? http://pastebin.com/UwLVKimq 01:04:58 What sort of "doesn't work"? 01:05:00 I'm getting this debug error when I try to require it 01:05:01 debugger invoked on a LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR in thread # "initial thread" RUNNING 01:05:04 {A9F5A59}>: 01:05:07 Error while trying to load definition for system stdalma from pathname 01:05:09 /home/oliver/.sbcl/systems/stdalma.asd: The variable  is unbound. 01:05:54 "The variable is unbound"? 01:07:06 I'd worry about the use of non-ascii characters in the filenames, and possibly the use of an uninterned symbol as the package-name, but beyond that it doesn't look horrible. 01:07:59 the uninterned package name symbol is working out for me in another system definition 01:08:07 i'll fix the filenames 01:09:14 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:09:15 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-skrsxissixehrxgd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:11:50 (Such filenames would be a portability problem anyway.) 01:12:51 Okay, so I've now gotten ROOM unbroken, though it's still broken as designed. I've just got some damage in debug.impure.lisp to sort out, and the -other- GC bug. 01:13:22 (Which, I'm fairly sure, is either technically allowed or longstanding, but I'm not sure which.) 01:17:48 tcr1 [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 01:18:14 no go :/ 01:19:04 and it is the .asd file i'm supposed to link in the .sbcl/system, right? 01:21:11 Right. 01:21:19 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:31 At this point, I'm out of ideas. 01:24:04 Hrm... The tracer itself appears to be okay, and W-O-T-S appears to be okay, but the combination bombs with a memory fault in the middle of nowhere. 01:24:45 (Okay, towards the beginning of the first page of memory, but that's fairly close to the middle of nowhere.) 01:26:19 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:21 can any sbcl committer update asdf to 2.004 in SBCL ? 01:26:45 it fixes a few minor bugs that have actually affected users 01:29:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:09 Eep. 9:30 already. 01:30:18 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:34:05 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:44 Is asdf.lisp loaded from source, not from a fasl nowadays? 01:35:19 oh no my mistake, it's the handrolled defpackage clone 01:35:23 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 01:35:30 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 01:35:56 In the version that currently ships with sbcl, I've seen the following in compile-file*: 01:36:48 fare: output-file was NIL, warnings-p was true, and output-truename was true, too 01:37:11 leading to an error that NIL is not a valid pathname in delete-file-if-exists 01:37:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37:23 fare: Is that one known? 01:38:01 maybe I'm wrong on whether output-truename was true 01:38:06 and maybe failure-p was true, too 01:38:25 -!- galaxywatcher_ [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher_] 01:40:37 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:42:12 you are the good guys :) 01:42:16 god damn, still isn't working after fixing directory names and such 01:43:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 01:44:19 OliverUv: Can't you figure out which variable is unbound? How about a backtrace? 01:49:05 hello, a few months ago i begin with lisp, but for work i abandoned it, now i need build a web e-comerce begin with drupal but im thinking in try it with lisp, what i must use ccl or sbcl?, and what web server? thanks a lot 01:49:13 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:52 will be great a web server with comet suport 01:52:12 billitch1 [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:32 hunchentoot is the defacto standard. 01:53:39 I would start there. 01:55:03 rtoym: already tried that 01:55:05 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 not getting any useful info :/ 01:55:30 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:57:19 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 01:58:45 thanks Zhivago 01:58:50 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6174666/log.txt <-- result of the backtrace 01:59:31 ah damn, dribble doesn't capture backtrace output 01:59:35 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:59:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:02:18 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rpclwncpoiqyhpvr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:23 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 02:03:17 ok here is a backtrace output 02:03:20 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kthspxvwbozjhjgr] has joined #lisp 02:03:23 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6174666/backtrace.txt 02:04:25 if anybody can figure anything out from it, I'd greatly appreciate it 02:04:45 <_3b`> it looks like you have some encoding problems 02:04:48 What variable is undefined? 02:05:05 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:05:08 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 02:05:39 _3b`: huh, you might be right. It worked fine when I loaded the source files with (load), but I'm not sure about the encoding for everything here 02:05:40 <_3b`> the unbound variable seems to be zero-width no-break space encoded as utf8 then decoded as latin1 or something 02:05:48 huh 02:05:56 gonna check on my files 02:06:37 Interesting question, LOAD and compile-file take an :external-format, but how can you specify that in an ASDF's (:file) clause? 02:08:44 Hm, all my files are UTF-8 02:09:01 just like in my other asd system, which works 02:09:33 <_3b`> other system probably doesn't have odd characters somewhere that would confuse things 02:09:44 it does 02:09:57 but might be odder in this new one, I'll scour it 02:10:04 but using (load) has worked! 02:10:31 I'd dig into asdf how to specify external formats 02:10:53 doesn't seem to be possible, grepping asdf.lisp for external-format 02:11:09 interesting 02:11:58 damn, I just realized I copied the text in the .asd file from a website, those can sometimes have strange invisibl characters baked into them 02:13:19 tcr: Sounds like a deficiency. Unless you're expected to provide the appropriate magic to asdf to compile/load the files with the appropriate external format. 02:14:13 rtoym: I'm about to submit a feature request; but then again external-format designators are wholy unspecified so it's a totally implementation-dependent feature 02:14:32 I guess :latin1 and :utf-8 (or :utf8?) are kind of universal 02:15:10 leif` [~user@c-76-121-229-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:14 tcr: I would guess :iso8859-1 and :utf-8. 02:15:31 cmucl doesnt support latin1? 02:15:44 latin1 is an alias for iso8859-1. 02:15:50 Yeah sure 02:16:22 I meant that for cmucl latin1 is an alias for iso8859-1. 02:17:51 Xach: planet.sbcl.org, Jul 14, Fare's launchpad entry indicates an encoding problem 02:18:04 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:14 <_3b`> OliverUv: ah, looks like that character is the BOM too, so check the first few bytes of the file (or the part pasted from elsewhere if not the whole file) 02:18:36 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:35 just noticed that the .asd file was in dos file format (line endings) though changing it to unix didn't help 02:20:52 _3b`: will try with entirely new file 02:23:42 woo! 02:24:02 copy and pasting the same text into a new file worked :) 02:24:05 big thanks! 02:24:11 now to deal with the other compilation errors :) 02:25:22 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:29:12 rtoym: If you want, you can subscribe to https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/608518 02:29:24 I think you don't even need a launchpad account for that 02:31:10 Says I need to login to subscribe. 02:31:13 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:07 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:36:01 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 02:36:46 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:54 hmm now another bug I don't really understand :/ 02:37:00 http://pastebin.com/CxDGLe18 02:37:15 Ok I misremebered then, rtoym. I thought one can subscribe email addresses, not only persons. 02:37:32 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.200] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:37:49 tcr: No problem. Since Fare shows up here fairly often, I'll keep abreast that way. And you're here too. :-) 02:37:52 OliverUv: defconstant is allowed to evaluate its init form at compilation time 02:37:52 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:07 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:17 OliverUv: so you must make sure that everything used in its initform (e.g. functions you use) are available at compile time, too 02:38:33 hm, so I am not allowed to use lambda-functions that use my file's functions to define constants 02:38:37 I see 02:38:56 You can, but you must make sure that these function definitions are available at compile time 02:39:01 you can do that via EVAL-WHEN 02:39:42 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:47 Mind you, it takes years to understand eval-when, and when one does, one whinces in disgust :-) 02:41:14 haha 02:41:27 I'll just change it into a setq instead of a defconstant for now 02:42:26 my changes to this code won't go into trunk anyway, and I'm just changing it so I can turn it into an asdf system so my code-test cycles can become faster 02:42:45 writing a clim interface to some legacy code! 02:43:11 for a beginer , sbcl or openmcl , my primary use will be web develop, thanks 02:43:45 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@108.7.68.199] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 02:45:08 OliverUv: You can't assign to a non-existing variable binding 02:45:18 You first have to establish the variable binding via DEFVAR, or DEFPARAMETER for example 02:45:22 not just use setq directly 02:45:50 for some platonic value of "can't" 02:46:15 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:47 -!- leif` [~user@c-76-121-229-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:49:30 tcr: Oh, I get warnings but it works 02:50:04 I realize the usage of common lisp we learned in university is not at all up-to-par with how it is supposed to be used 02:50:33 but it was mostly used to teach the concepts of functions, recursion, macros and abstraction 02:50:39 If shell only had blocks (not even real lexical closures), it would actually be pretty decent to program in module robustness issues 02:50:56 s/module/modulo/ 03:02:16 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:57 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 benny` [~user@i577A1DBC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:04:26 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:05:05 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:13:25 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:26 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 03:14:47 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:26:37 -!- Jasko 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[~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:30:21 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:21 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:33:14 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 04:35:23 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-8-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:36:31 evening 04:36:33 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:00 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-81-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:39:07 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:07 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.157.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:39 evening slyrus 04:48:41 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:44 _3b around? 04:53:13 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:54:28 heck, anybody around? 04:58:39 minion? 04:58:59 Hi! 04:59:07 wow 04:59:34 what's up pjb? 05:02:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mefyojklhizxvqeu] has joined #lisp 05:06:40 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:08 Waking up. 05:12:26 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:22 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:33 ic 05:17:27 Six Km from the Sea. 05:18:54 tcr: My shell has blocks (#!/usr/bin/clisp and chsh /bin/clash, http://clisp.cons.org/clash.html). 05:19:13 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:24:57 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:19 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 05:25:34 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 05:25:40 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:27:14 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:22 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 05:28:00 _3b wake up 05:30:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:46 fluffcms [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:56 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 05:37:11 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:14 has anybody built 3bil with a recent pull from github? 05:45:16 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 05:45:57 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:46:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:46:50 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-128-224.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:46:50 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:48:03 sam191 [18108726@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.16.135.38] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 why does emacs colors function name starting with "check-" in red, are there special in lisp ? 05:48:34 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-71-172.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:48:55 -!- sam191 [18108726@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.16.135.38] has quit [Client Quit] 05:49:18 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:49:24 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:25 s/there/they sorry 05:50:34 I added that to slime 05:50:51 If you don't like it, don't use the slime-fonfity-fu contrib 05:51:13 I'm just searching for the rational 05:51:37 check-type, like assert, and error, are fontified in red by lisp-mode; I extended that to include all operators with a check- prefix 05:51:42 because I like it 05:52:07 ok :) I will disable it then 05:52:18 thank you for the package name 05:52:58 I guess you're using slime-fancy which includes slime-fontify-fu 05:53:15 what you have to do is to look into slime-fancy, and explicitly specify the contribs it includes except for slime-fontify-fu 05:54:16 it's the case :) 05:54:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.135.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:39 galdor: they're usually macros wrapping an assert. 05:56:48 galdor: see for example check-type 05:57:16 galdor: ( which is the only one in CL, but never mind... :-) ) 05:58:20 I have check-hdb-boolean which checks the boolean return code of tokyocabinet's hdb functions and raise a condition if there's an error 05:58:34 so it kind of fit in this definition 05:58:49 but I find the red a bit aggressive (no offense) 05:58:57 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:59:00 You can change the color 05:59:14 it's the error face right ? 05:59:36 for me these functions aren't errors; they're important, but not errors 05:59:41 I guess so, you can go over arbitrary text, then do M-x describe-text-properties to find out what face it's fontified with 05:59:46 oh nice 05:59:51 I didn't know that 06:00:15 I guess I'll take the 'work in progress' seriously in 3b's README (it's not as if *all* my code are not works in progress :-) ) 06:00:30 pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has joined #lisp 06:01:29 -!- pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has left #lisp 06:01:54 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:02:05 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:14 pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has joined #lisp 06:02:32 -!- pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:15 pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has joined #lisp 06:03:43 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 06:06:01 -!- pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:18 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bjvvdtsbetucdsuv] has joined #lisp 06:08:14 pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has joined #lisp 06:10:12 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 06:10:53 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-204.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:12:43 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:57 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 06:13:52 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:56 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:27 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:07 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:20:39 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:01 fatblueduck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:24 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:06 I am using sbcl to play with lisp and networking (beginner in both). I open a UDP socket using the sb-bsd-sockets class and connect to it via a terminal client. I am able to receive data. How do I access the IP level data from the IP protocol datagram? I am trying to determine the client's address/port. 06:25:46 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:48 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:29:17 galdor: just moving the cursor on the wrong face and typing M-x customize-face RET RET will let you change it. 06:33:20 pjb: well I like using red for warnings, I just didn't want to have some read for error/assert/check-* symbols 06:33:35 I prefer when they don't have a special color 06:33:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:33:53 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:38:53 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has left #lisp 06:40:46 Search in the sources of slime. 06:42:53 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:43:43 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:12 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:01 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:51:30 good morning 06:55:17 hello mvilleneuve 06:56:11 -!- beach` is now known as beach 06:56:38 [and good morning everyone] 06:57:21 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:58:17 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 06:59:15 well, time to go to bed 06:59:26 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 07:00:51 xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.3] has joined #lisp 07:02:03 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:16 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 07:04:48 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:04:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:02 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: 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[~juan@mobile-166-137-138-241.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:18:17 TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:08 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:21 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:21:21 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:21:21 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 09:25:53 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 09:27:30 is it only me or does the Map_Sym.txt buffer stay open after hyperspec.el has been loaded? 09:27:54 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:29:11 for anybody else that is? 09:29:39 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 09:31:29 Yes it does 09:31:35 jdz: it stays open but keeps in background and doesn't bother me. 09:31:54 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:32:44 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has joined #lisp 09:34:04 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:34:58 well, it bothers me because it always shows up in the buffer list when switching buffers... could add it to iswitchb-buffer-ignore, but that's not the right way (tm) to solve the problem 09:35:05 Komi [Komi@62.32.131.75] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 you can hide it 09:36:53 make the buffer a hidden one 09:37:01 that's what i just said 09:37:04 Look into hyperspec.el, if the buffer is only needed initially, it should probably kill it after having used it 09:37:23 If it does need it more often, it should name the buffer with an initial space 09:37:57 metasyntax`` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 i'm pretty sure it only needs it at startup to read the mappings 09:38:12 at least hyperspec lookup works when i kill the buffer manually 09:38:20 maybe it should use with-temporary-buffer instead 09:38:26 i was just wondering why this does not bother anybody else... 09:38:53 my buffers don't usually start with an initial big-letter M :-) 09:39:22 jdz: what about completion, calendar, inferior lisp, etc. buffers? :) 09:39:28 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:39:31 do you try to hide and avoid those too? 09:39:49 How does that compare? 09:40:08 not all buffers are useful all the time 09:40:20 there are many that could be "hidden" 09:40:36 None of the ones you should mentioned 09:40:41 but I guess that's how Emacs works, you cannot ignore them 09:40:44 s/should/just/ 09:40:52 blandest: yes, i do "hide" those; but they are not useless... 09:40:56 Seriously, get a clue before talking :-) 09:41:06 I use ido mode with fuzzy matching 09:41:20 I know what I am saying :) 09:41:49 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:43:07 ionine_ 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[~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:07 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:50 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:12:59 Axius [~hi@109.97.41.22] has joined #lisp 10:13:49 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:12 ogamita`` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:13 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:15 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.41.22] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:23 -!- ogamita` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:43 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:20:55 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:21:41 mega1 [~quassel@pool-02441.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:22:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:30:23 hadronzo` [~user@24.40.129.231] has joined #lisp 10:31:47 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:32:11 Dazhbog [sampo@geek.fi] has joined #lisp 10:32:13 -!- hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:33:26 hello, may I ask cffi-related questions here or is there a more dedicated place for those? 10:33:50 Dazhbog: ask away, friend 10:35:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:25 I'm trying to do bindings for gegl. There is a gegl_init -function, it takes two parameter (gint *argc, gchar ***argv) and return value is void 10:36:13 so I make a declaration like this: (defcfun ("gegl_init" gegl-init) :void (argc :pointer) (argv :pointer)) 10:36:33 and call it like this: (gegl-init (cffi:make-pointer 0) (cffi:make-pointer 0)) 10:37:23 this is very much like many other init -functions which are supposed to take argc and argv passed to the main function 10:37:33 however, I get bogus stack frame 10:37:59 well, do you have reason to think that gegl_init allows null pointers? 10:39:10 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn198.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:19 well that was an assumption since they usually do.. but you got a point there :P 10:39:24 looks like it's supposed to work with main's argc and argv 10:40:45 so.. I should craft some sensible parameters I guess 10:41:08 lichtblau: are you going to update hemlock for iolib ewouldblock changes? 10:42:16 *lichtblau* might have some time this weekend 10:42:19 thanks people, I'll investigate that 10:42:31 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:43:12 Dazhbog: i guess passing a pointer to a zero and a NULL pointer should do 10:43:34 lichtblau: that might be a day late for quicklisp demo glory 10:44:47 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:45:06 stassats: okay.. lets see :) 10:45:07 well, we'll see...hoping to show people at BLM on monday 10:45:11 Xach: fixed 10:45:41 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 10:45:59 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 10:47:47 cool, thanks 10:50:47 -!- ogamita`` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:13 ogamita`` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:16 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:51:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:54:52 Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:55:26 tobik [~tobik@p54896FB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:59:03 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:59:10 -!- ogamita`` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59:25 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:38 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest96091 11:01:49 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:55 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:08:15 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:27 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 11:11:29 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 11:14:36 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:15:14 -!- Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:39 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-113-2.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:18:42 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 11:20:11 -!- stettber` is now known as stettberger 11:22:08 primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 11:22:51 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:03 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:22 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B224.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:10 G'morning all. 11:29:15 -!- Guest96091 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:29:16 hello nyef 11:30:00 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:13 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:34:06 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.127.131] has joined #lisp 11:34:06 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.127.131] has quit [Changing host] 11:34:06 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:37:17 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37:57 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:39:16 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has quit [Quit: tfb] 11:39:57 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:53:26 david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:54:05 -!- david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:13 david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:56:57 Xach: Did you get my message about a potential encoding bug on planet.sbcl? 11:57:06 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57:45 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 11:57:58 -!- david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:13 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:11 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 12:01:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@host86-189-7-233.range86-189.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:02:15 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:18 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:22 tcr: Yes. 12:07:24 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:08:32 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:36 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:48 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:09 An idea what goes wrong? 12:19:50 tcr: the original software assumes latin-1 12:21:23 planet lisp is 6 this year! 12:22:35 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:24:22 faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:25:17 xan_ [~xan@host86-189-15-191.range86-189.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:32 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:26:34 grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:18 homie_ [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #lisp 12:30:45 it really is unfortunate timing that things did not generally have workable unicode support when the internet was popularised 12:30:52 hefner: I heard you have done some audio stuff with lisp. Have you wrapped any C library? I looked at your site and found the audio-fun and audition. And noticed that socks uses libao, which has a nice clean API and seems easy to wrap with cffi. 12:31:19 s/socks/SoX/ 12:32:11 I thought of wrapping the libao right after I finish the cffi tutorial, but I think I could use some help still as I'm just learning lisp... 12:32:26 fe[nl]ix: where is the fix? 12:33:44 Xach: i see it in the Git repository 12:34:00 Which one? 12:34:09 git://gitorious.org/hemlock/hemlock.git 12:34:39 Ok, thanks. 12:38:09 homie__ [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has joined #lisp 12:38:24 -!- homie_ [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:41 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:44 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:39:50 -!- homie__ is now known as homie 12:41:20 peterhil: see http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/software/mixalot/mixalot.html 12:42:02 *Xach* gets deja vu 12:42:08 hmm, that's an old version of the manual 12:44:17 peterhil: the current version in git (http://github.com/ahefner/mixalot) supports libao (I use libao on OS X) in addition to alsa 12:45:09 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:02 -!- TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:21 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:47:38 TomJ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 12:48:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:03 -!- hadronzo` [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:38 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:56:00 -!- homie [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:58:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-204.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:01:10 -!- dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:08:05 Ok, thanks. 13:09:36 -!- metasyntax`` is now known as metasyntax 13:10:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:10:23 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 *Xach* suddenly is way more interested in distributing compilation work for sbcl 13:15:48 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 Did typep become *much* slower in some relatively recent SBCL version? 13:17:22 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:31 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:25 like sometime after 1.0.32 and up until 1.0.37? 13:24:08 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.117] has joined #lisp 13:25:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mefyojklhizxvqeu] has left #lisp 13:27:40 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:45 My application slowed down by a factor 50 or more. 13:29:59 Perhaps I shouldn't be using typep that much. 13:30:22 Perhaps a bisection is in order to find where the performance loss hits? 13:30:33 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:30:41 nyef: Install different versions you mean? 13:31:19 sort of 13:31:43 No, come up with a test-case that shows the performance degradation, then use the run-sbcl.sh script from inside a git tree. 13:32:03 beach: using git-bisect you can do a binary search in a commit interval 13:32:07 and what nyef says 13:33:16 shortsightedsid [7aac221b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.172.34.27] has joined #lisp 13:34:46 I don't care enough to do that. 13:35:06 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:30 beach: it's 5 minutes' work 13:35:45 fe[nl]ix: Only if you already know how to do it. 13:36:36 fe[nl]ix: Besides, I would have to extract the typep code from my application, or otherwise I would end up recompiling McCLIM each time I change versions of SBCL. 13:36:54 ah, ok 13:37:01 Do you care enough to do that typep extraction? 13:37:15 nyef: I might. 13:37:44 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:21 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:42 beach: it's: git bisect start sbcl_1_0_32 HEAD ; git bisect run test.sh 13:39:37 Presuming, of course, that test.sh is set up correctly. 13:39:54 in test.sh you sbcl --load "test.lisp"; in test.lisp you (sb-ext:quit :unix-status (if no-bug 0 1)) 13:40:00 I invariably run the bisection "manually" with "git bisect good" and "git bisect bad". 13:40:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:39 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:40 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:24 ok, it's not so short. in test.sh you'd also need to recompile sbcl 13:42:25 Hmm, even though the profiler indicated that typep was at fault, calling typep ten million times in a loop doesn't seem particularly slow, and ten million is a lot more than the number of iterations of my application. 13:42:26 :P 13:42:29 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:43:09 Maybe it's more the pattern to the calls than the repetition? 13:43:55 Maybe your test case is getting optimized while your production code isn't? 13:43:56 beach: are you sure that the call to typep isn't eliminated? 13:45:04 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 stassats: pretty sure, yes: (loop repeat 10000000 for elem in *l* count (typep elem 'a)) where *l* is a circular list. 13:46:27 *l* has every other element an instance of class a and every other element an instance of class b. 13:48:06 And does this match your actual usage scenario? 13:48:59 nyef: I thought it did. I search a list (using position-if) for elements of a particular type. 13:50:14 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 13:50:47 ... Doesn't POSITION-IF have some compiler transforms or compiler macros associated with it? 13:52:06 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:18 -!- shortsightedsid [7aac221b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.172.34.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:53:16 Oh, wait, I may be misreading the profile report. I'll lisppaste it. Perhaps it has to do with mutexes instead. 13:53:29 Mutexes are phenomenally slow. 13:53:46 *Xach* tries to remember who visits from cdi.no 13:53:48 are they? 13:53:50 At least, WITH-MUTEX is. 13:54:06 mega1: Yeah, largely due to WITHOUT-INTERRUPTS being phenomenally slow. 13:54:07 due to the interrupt frobbing machinary 13:54:15 ok 13:55:06 Which is stupid, really, because it's trying to make asynchronous unwind "safe", as far as the mutex object itself is concerned, but doesn't protect whatever the mutex is supposed to protect. 13:55:21 =/ 13:55:43 Here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EYF 13:57:39 Cheery [~cheery@a88-113-49-213.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:59:14 I've asked it before, though not in this form: does anyone know whether there's pre-made garbage collectors that you could just thrust at your lisp implementation? 13:59:42 GC tends to be deeply dependent on the implementation's implementation details. 13:59:47 So, not really. 13:59:50 Cheery: Depends on your implementation substrate. Boehm is apparently tolerable for some things. 13:59:54 2703 25.8 2703 25.8 SB-KERNEL::%%TYPEP [1] 14:00:14 Xof: Indicative of a full-call? 14:00:15 beach: roughly, this suggests that you are calling TYPEP with a type argument that is unknown at compile-time 14:00:27 so more like (typep elem var) 14:00:59 the runtime will then have to convert from a type specifier (the value of var) to a type check function for each call to typep 14:01:46 nyef: well I'd rather use a collector that isn't conservative 14:01:49 Xof: All of my calls to typep look like this (typep mumble 'some-class-name) where the class is defined prior to the use. 14:02:26 Zhivago: yes. though I'd be ready to adjust things to the implementation details the garbage collector requires 14:03:07 as long as it doesn't expect me to use a virtual machine. 14:03:22 beach: can you try tracing sb-kernel::%%TYPEP to find out who's calling it and with what arguments? 14:03:30 (if you're lucky, this won't crash your session) 14:03:50 -!- pp206 [d8a0771b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.160.119.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:04 [ (defclass foo () ()) (defun foo (x) (typep x 'foo)) (disassemble 'foo) doesn't go through %%TYPEP ] 14:04:17 beach: try calling finalize-inheritance for each class before the test 14:04:32 madrik [~user@122.168.210.170] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:05:32 so.. that's it? 14:06:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:50 fe[nl]ix raises a good point. In a file, those forms I just wrote, compile-filed and loaded, the typep test does go through %%TYPEP 14:07:17 -!- oconnore [~eric@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:16 Trying to trace %%typep did crash my session. 14:08:20 sorry 14:08:24 Now trying what fe[nl]ix said. 14:08:29 Xof: Not a big deal. 14:08:32 hm.. maybe I could ask the same thing on scheme and see what do they say. 14:08:47 and do some search engine abusing 14:08:58 beach: actually I think putting (eval-when (:c-t :l-t :e) ...) around the defclasses might be better 14:09:03 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:09:12 it seems you need to have the class exist fully before the typep form is compiled 14:09:23 (you also need the class to exist before you can call finalize-inheritance on it) 14:09:38 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.210.170] has left #lisp 14:10:46 fe[nl]ix: No difference with finalize-inheritance 14:11:03 Xof: OK, I'll try that. 14:11:50 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:42 Xof: No change. 14:12:42 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:45 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:09 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:13 I need to leave for a while. I'll try some other things later, like defining my own type predicates for the classes. 14:14:30 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.159.154] has joined #lisp 14:14:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:14:35 Cheery: I've got a simple-minded GC in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=9867eb155106ad99c728c73c3ab819d8db5aed2d&hb=f4c7f174cc1a54bb6f59193e555a2919dfe8f08b&f=common-lisp/heap.lisp 14:15:12 Cheery: You could swipe the GC from an existing system, such as SBCL or Movitz... 14:15:18 Xach: Ughhh, I still have the same problem as I had before turning the legacy code into an asdf system 14:15:36 I am not sure how to fix it 14:15:49 OliverUv: making a proper package definition is a good way 14:16:00 but it didn't work! 14:16:08 Then it is improper. 14:16:09 nyef: if it's just copying few files around, then it'd be a good proposal 14:16:33 ah, can I put import statements in the package definition? 14:16:34 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:16:45 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 14:16:48 OliverUv: yes. 14:16:48 pjb: interesting. 14:16:57 -!- salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva_] 14:16:58 hooray! 14:17:31 'simple-minded', it looks quite larger than that. :) 14:17:35 i was looking in the asdf manual but didn't see anything about it 14:17:38 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 Cheery: it's a simple mark and sweep algorithm. 14:17:56 OliverUv: asdf is what helps establish the symbols you import 14:17:58 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:18:15 OliverUv: it helps you load things in the right order so they exist when you need them 14:19:16 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has joined #lisp 14:19:46 oconnore [~eric@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 Xach: I have set my new system as dependent on the old system (and the old system gets loaded) 14:20:42 excellent 14:21:05 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 LiamH: thanks for fixing the bugs ;) 14:21:23 but it still seems to (at compile time) create symbols in my current package before it runs any import-statements, so it still interferes with my import statements 14:21:30 leo2007: which ones? 14:21:42 LiamH: those I put on the mailing list. 14:21:48 OliverUv: Yes. I have given two suggestions about how to fix it. 14:22:03 OliverUv: one is to wrap your import statements in eval-when, another is to do the importing via defpackage. 14:22:14 leo2007: np 14:22:17 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6174666/almavis.lisp 14:22:53 ah, so it is in defpackage I import functions, not in asdf! That explains why I didn't hap upon itthat in the asdf manual 14:23:07 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:39 OliverUv: it helps to keep in mind that defpackage deals only with symbols, not the things the symbols might name 14:24:27 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:25:31 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-oahbnkcfxxcswwmi] has joined #lisp 14:27:48 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn198.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:32:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:37 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 14:33:54 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-238-54.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:25 homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 -!- homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:43 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:46:03 homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has joined #lisp 14:46:40 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-164.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:47:05 -!- homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:20 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 14:48:06 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 14:48:26 homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has joined #lisp 14:49:18 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:49:46 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest56823 14:52:40 does *building* cl-opengl require an active display to build the glut bits? 14:53:02 i don't see an obvious failure, but i do have several of these: freeglut (SBCL): failed to open display '' 14:53:08 (and no cl-glut) 14:55:51 -!- Guest56823 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:58:06 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:01:23 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:06 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.200] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 Question for beach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EYH 15:03:32 urandom__ [~user@p548A7B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:48 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:11 jp_larocque [jabber-irc@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 -!- jp_larocque [jabber-irc@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has left #lisp 15:05:59 Howdy folks. I'm thinking about writing a lisp wrapper for bash, but I'm mildly worried about memory usage (I may have many terminals open at any one time, and it tends to add up on the low-end work machines that management hasn't let me update since the P4 days). Anyone have any tips on minimizing usage/lisp image size? 15:12:53 argiopeweb: that's an interesting idea. what would a lisp wrapper for bash actually do? 15:13:05 bbooth [~bbooth@skittles.dhcp.lbl.gov] has joined #lisp 15:14:04 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:44 Xach: shell? 15:15:17 p_l: I don't understand the question. 15:15:26 Try adding more words. 15:16:56 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:17:28 right, misstargeted 15:17:29 Xach: It would allow me to add built-in functionality to my shell by parsing lines starting with parenthesis. 15:17:38 argiopeweb: are you trying to make a shell in Lisp? 15:18:00 p_l: Essentially, though everything non-lisp related would be passed to bash. 15:18:08 argiopeweb: ah. i use that syntax pretty often for subshells. 15:18:40 yeah, you're locking yourself out of subshells, not so good of an idea 15:19:03 but anyway, you can try rxvt's approach of a daemon and clients 15:19:24 one lisp process in background, and the program you call just connects to it 15:20:23 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:56 argiopeweb: different lisps have different memory profiles. you could try a few different implementations to see which seems nicest for your purpose. 15:20:57 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:13 Hmm, that would work. I'm definitely going to have to find a work-around for the subshell issue though. 15:21:15 argiopeweb: to me, memory usage seems like one of the last things to worry about. 15:22:34 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:36 Xach: I would think so, but I'm working on machines with ~1gb of memory running RHE5... They've got 200mb free memory on a good day, and that's before 15 terminals get pulled up. 15:22:54 And before someone starts a web browser. 15:23:02 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:04 -!- primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has quit [Quit: o/] 15:23:08 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 15:23:11 Xach: so you didn't have cl-glut installed? 15:23:26 sykopomp: I am trying to build cl-glut. 15:23:35 sykopomp: I wasn't able to do so. 15:23:53 Xach: and you have glut installed, correct? 15:24:04 sykopomp: I have freeglut3 installed. 15:24:06 (I assume so, from the error message) 15:24:09 hm 15:24:26 cor|n [~Anon364@208.83.126.102] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 this is on a remote system with no DISPLAY set. 15:24:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24:39 *cor|n* is gay. 15:24:49 *Xach* could possibly tunnel X, but that seems like a hassle 15:24:57 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:25:20 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 Xach: I don't know then. Sorry. 15:26:03 argiopeweb: use ECL then and the client-server trick 15:26:16 *cor|n* got owned by Erik Naggum. 15:26:40 Kevin: go away 15:26:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 how did you know it was me? 15:27:22 You're not anonymous. 15:27:49 Xach, how's quicklisp going? 15:28:35 Fare: pretty good. I should have a simple demo available at the meeting on monday. 15:28:41 nice! 15:28:54 *Xach* has been getting a build environment going on ec2 15:29:15 Xach: exciting! 15:29:18 *Xach* would like to learn how exploit lots of storage, lots of instances 15:29:53 I always start from linda tuple machines and then specialize from there. :) 15:30:23 p_l: Thanks for the advice. I'll try it out and see what happens. 15:30:27 -!- gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 15:30:40 (defun fact (n) (if (zerop n) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 15:30:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:15 the real corin can't program in lisp, he is a moron. 15:31:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:50 _3b, are you here? 15:31:52 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:31:52 is c.l.l. dead? We seem to be getting infested by its morons. 15:31:58 cor|n: Be quiet. 15:32:31 sykopomp: cll has an entirely different class of morons. 15:32:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:02 Xach: heh 15:33:06 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:33:25 *ZabaQ* wonders whether to use ABCL or Clojure to play with the Google App Engine.. 15:33:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:34:19 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:25 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:35:06 ZabaQ: Clojure has some really really interesting threading stuff I want to play around with 15:35:29 here is a great tech talk about it: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Identity-State-Rich-Hickey 15:36:37 OliverUv: all of which is available in CL? 15:36:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:55 (and there's other interesting things available as libraries for CL) 15:37:38 Clojure is not a CL 15:37:49 correct. 15:37:56 go to #clojure for the clojure bot 15:38:04 access bot by using , 15:38:05 I don't know if the things clojure has are available in CL or not. If they are, then I guess I'd go for ABCL 15:38:14 such as ,() 15:38:26 OliverUv: actually, they're available as fairly portable libs. 15:38:46 OliverUv: there's fset for 'functional' data structures, and I think Fare is working on something of his own, as well. 15:39:04 cl-stm is available for doing transactional memory. 15:39:18 you mean persistent data structures? (persistent but shared) 15:39:18 yes, I have a small library of pure datastructures in fare-utils 15:39:32 OliverUv: yes 15:39:59 like, pure balanced trees, integer tries, pure "hash-tables", etc. 15:40:06 cool 15:40:21 OliverUv: there's also libraries for doing _other_ kinds of multi-processing and multi-threading. Including futures (several libs), erlang-style actors (several libs), and channels (again, several libs) 15:40:28 I don't have more fancy stuff like finger trees (yet), but you're welcome to contribute some :) 15:40:52 i have to find an excuse to do some multi-proc/thread programming 15:41:06 -!- cor|n [~Anon364@208.83.126.102] has quit [Quit: "corin and iryuu and afkafka get ready to be ddosed by a rough lisper with a ddos tool running on a lispm"] 15:41:11 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:41:33 but now i have to work! 15:41:46 gotta keep my day job if I want to be able to stay in Taiwan all year 15:41:51 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:15 cor|n [~Anon898@208.83.126.102] has joined #lisp 15:42:28 anyone use open genera 2.0 any more ??? 15:43:07 -!- vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:44:14 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:16 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 -!- cor|n [~Anon898@208.83.126.102] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:39 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-238-54.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 15:47:17 probably the right approach is to benchmark a mini project with each and decide on that basis. blogfodder. 15:48:00 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.159.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:25 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.127.131] has joined #lisp 15:48:25 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.127.131] has quit [Changing host] 15:48:25 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:49:24 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@host86-189-15-191.range86-189.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:39 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:31 -!- homie [574fa650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.79.166.80] has quit [] 15:55:41 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:55 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:34 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:10 brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:59:14 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:59:19 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:39 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:00 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:21 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bjvvdtsbetucdsuv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:51 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:03:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:48 -!- brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:02 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:39 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:06 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:23 *mega1* is considering giving paredit-kill the boot 16:06:27 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:06:47 I find it a bit inconsistent. 16:07:38 How do you save an object with all its slots to a file? 16:07:48 maybe I'm buggy, is there a good tutorial on paredit? 16:08:49 C-h f paredit-mode 16:10:58 I read that, and found the cheat sheet, trying to breed more complex actions by trial and error now. 16:11:15 mega1: i found having the cheat sheet next to me while i learned did the trick. ymmv. 16:11:56 mostly, yes. But C-k behaves strange. 16:12:28 I like the package stuff, makes it pretty easy for me to refactor my manual tests into a unit test suite 16:14:26 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has left #lisp 16:15:06 josemanuel [~josemanue@209.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:15:43 -!- benny [~user@i577A1DBC.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:16:26 mega1: C-k is quite fantastic in paredit :) 16:16:54 don't you find the cursor in random places after C-k? 16:17:04 no? 16:17:15 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 um, okay. It kills ^L, too. 16:18:54 A question about clos: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EYH/1 16:18:54 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:25 lat: write a function to do it. 16:19:58 so how do you do this efficiently in paredit (a (b) (c (d) e)) => (c (d) (a (b) e)? 16:20:08 put the cursor where convenient 16:22:15 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has joined #lisp 16:22:33 benny` [~user@i577A1B8D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:27 Xach, do you have an example? 16:25:08 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:26:05 lat: No, sorry. 16:26:17 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:27:02 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:31 lat: (with-open-file (file "foo" :direction :output) (describe file)) 16:28:09 pp206 [46674a08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.103.74.8] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 fe[nl]ix, many thanks! 16:28:14 fe[nl]ix: heh 16:28:49 -!- pp206 [46674a08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.103.74.8] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:30 sykopomp: FSVO "easily" :D 16:30:15 fe[nl]ix: I was about to paste a basic serialization function (serializing to alists), and then a 'dump-this-alist-to-a-file' function :\ 16:30:26 because I thought that would be much simpler than pointing someone to the mop. 16:30:27 heh 16:30:51 fe[nl]ix, somehow, when I read "FSVO" I first parse it as "SVUC" and boggle 16:30:58 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:25 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 (defclass easily ...) 16:35:56 fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:37 -!- fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:38 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-86-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:36:45 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:29 pnq [~nick@ACA2AF82.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:41 ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.166.238] has joined #lisp 16:37:48 SVUC? 16:38:03 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-8-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:31 clhs svuc 16:38:32 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for svuc. 16:39:27 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.166.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:46 clhs s-v-u-c 16:39:46 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for s-v-u-c. 16:39:56 doesn't specbot have MOP symbols too ? 16:39:58 mop s-v-u-c 16:39:59 oh, mop, slot-value-using-class 16:40:21 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 heh 16:40:47 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 *stassats* was looking a second before that at a usage of slot-value-using-class in something which writes objects to a file 16:42:07 -!- oconnore [~eric@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:24 i'm writing a continuous integration server in CL and i wonder a few things about fasl files : are they cleaned up sometimes when original source has disappeared ? 16:42:52 symbole [~chatzilla@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:57 billitch1: no 16:42:59 by whom? 16:43:16 by the gods 16:43:31 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:48 and they are lazy 16:43:54 yeah some kind of GC 16:44:29 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:44:31 latest ASDF2 can do something like that 16:45:12 and so i wanted to disable pathname translations temporarily but it breaks loading other (valid) fasls.. 16:45:20 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:49:08 xan_ [~xan@109.144.212.34] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:50:52 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:18 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:19 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has joined #lisp 16:58:12 fe[nl]ix: When you make cmucl, do you ever do compile with sse3-specific options? 16:58:53 what would those be ? 16:59:14 oconnore [~eric@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:30 -f sse2 ? 16:59:47 billitch1, you can disable it for your select libraries based on their path 17:00:14 So, I came up with a horribly-slow-but-still-great idea for testing SBCL with respect to GC invariants: Write something to invariant-test a signal-context, then use the single-step mechanisms to single-step the system, checking invariants on each context along the way. 17:00:31 fe[nl]ix: I don't know. I was just curious. For cmucl if you have sse3 and put :sse3 onto *features*, I think you'll get a much faster complex multiply routine. 17:01:34 rtoym: no, my notebook doesn't support sse3 17:01:52 how do you guys clean out fasls these days? 17:02:00 ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has joined #lisp 17:02:06 My standard method is having a clean.sh which deletes all fasls recursively in the current directory after confirmation. 17:02:16 That doesn't work anymore now that fasls are in ../../../../../$impl/x/y/z/../.. 17:02:34 lichtblau: rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp 17:02:35 i delete this $impl directory 17:02:46 after i upgrade my $impl 17:03:36 that is obviously scriptable, but doesn't have per-directory granularity 17:03:43 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:04:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.61.64] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:33 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:34 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-oahbnkcfxxcswwmi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:47 Hi, is there a general method to disable overflow checks that is applicable for any implementation (Carlos Ungil send me a good link here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3300900/package-rcl-and-inf but i'm also wondering if there is something more general)? 17:07:48 I'm thinking about configuring asdf to search for .git and _darcs, so that a .fasl directory would go next to those, allowing for easy per-project cleanup. Then clean.sh would also search upwards until it hits a .fasl directory. 17:08:27 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 17:10:39 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:10:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:12:20 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:30 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-136.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 17:12:45 hahaha, http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3583.pdf 17:12:46 francogrex: No general method, as the standard carefully doesn't specify such things. 17:13:06 francogrex: That said, for SBCL, you might have an apropos for "floating-point-modes". 17:13:11 characters proposed for unicode 6: "Night with stars" and "Bridge at night" 17:13:12 :D 17:13:49 not forgetting "Half moon with face" and "Milky way" :D 17:14:01 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 Just wait until the emoji are approved. 17:15:01 yeah :D 17:15:05 Rocketship, pretty dog, sad carrot, ... 17:15:11 hahaha 17:15:48 apparently Google & Apple proposed 674 emoji for inclusion 17:16:03 curi [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 They're actually pretty nifty. 17:16:35 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:16:36 "anger sign". I always wondered what that was. 17:19:44 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.215] has joined #lisp 17:21:06 with xcvb, the model is a per-project output file cache 17:21:28 because different projects may compile the same libraries with different options 17:21:35 nyef: ok 17:22:21 haven't touched xcvb in weeks 17:22:41 was experiencing weird issues with SBCL as a named-pipe-driven slave 17:23:13 Fare: Threaded SBCL? 17:23:20 forked sbcl 17:23:29 Ah, so not built with sb-thread? 17:23:36 built with sb-thread 17:23:40 but no thread created. 17:23:50 (not by me anyway) 17:23:53 You, ah, -do- know that SBCL uses SIGPIPE for INTERRUPT-THREAD, right? 17:24:19 I don't think I'm doing anything particular about sigpipe - should I? 17:24:26 nyef: whaaat ? 17:24:41 -!- salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva_] 17:24:42 (why not use SIGUSR2 or something?) 17:24:47 I don't know, but perhaps trying it on a #-sb-thread SBCL would work? 17:24:54 Zhivago: also http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/commit/?id=554da76ece85d0fc0cada45a86860e69c2107e9a 17:25:04 ISTR that SIGUSR2 is SIG_STOP_FOR_GC these days. 17:25:13 or SIGALARM 17:25:26 And SIGALARM is used for timers. 17:25:49 why need interrupt-thread, anyway? or a different signal for all those things? 17:26:02 an async signal needs to probe possible sources of signal, anyway 17:26:17 s/signal needs/signal handler needs/ 17:26:57 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:19 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.61.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:16 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 is there a way to invite minion to other channels? 17:28:32 of course there is. 17:28:45 might not be easy, but there always is - it's code 17:28:46 p_l: you have to bribe its masters 17:29:11 minion: help me! 17:29:20 heh 17:29:28 It would be nice to have minion in *this* channel. :-) 17:29:41 *p_l* wanted to add it to #lisp-pl 17:29:49 I would use SIGUSR2 for everything, and have the handler poll for whether we're interrupting the thread to run a GC or some other code or whatelse 17:30:03 fe[nl]ix: I think I fixed the problem you had with cross-compiling and -batch. 17:30:41 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:05 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:32 Fare: what about realtime signals? 17:31:48 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:33:06 p_l: what about them? 17:33:37 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:06 I don't care which signal is used, but it seems to be both a waste and a source of trouble to use SIGPIPE for that when SIGUSR2 ought to be the thing. 17:34:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:28 I guess just some fear of something linked in that grabs signals... SIGUSR/SIGUSR2 should be enough 17:36:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:05 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 17:37:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:38:33 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:33 asarch [~asarch@189.188.160.229] has joined #lisp 17:38:48 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:26 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 17:40:33 -!- billitch1 is now known as billitch 17:42:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:42:31 Fare: i can disable pathname translation for one dir ? how ? 17:44:23 you add an entry 10-disable.conf containing the sexp ("/path/to/foo") in your asdf-output-translations.conf.d 17:44:30 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:39 or something like that 17:44:48 minion: memo for luis: would it be a good idea to add a semi-uniform rendition of ROOM and other memory statistics functions to trivial-garbage? 17:44:49 Remembered. I'll tell luis when he/she/it next speaks. 17:45:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:34 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-02441.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:37 fusss: I couldn't reproduce your skippy issue. does it happen to you for every gif? 17:45:40 *fusss* crosses fingers and prepares to max out his 1GB of laptop ram 17:46:02 meder__ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:13 Xach: as a matter of fact, i stopped trying when as soon as i spotted that issue. let me take a look at it when i have some free time. 17:46:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:23 billitch, see the asdf documentation on the topic 17:46:35 (and please suggest improvements if it's not good enough) 17:47:07 Fare: What method would you suggest for detecting if the asdf loaded with the system is older than 2.004? 17:47:26 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:28 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 17:47:28 *stassats* thinks whether using PCL internals for optimization is a good idea 17:47:32 loaded in the implementation, that is 17:48:08 fusss: what could trivial-garbage uniformize? 17:48:09 luis, memo from fusss: would it be a good idea to add a semi-uniform rendition of ROOM and other memory statistics functions to trivial-garbage? 17:48:55 Xach: asdf:*asdf-revision*? 17:49:15 Fare: i was looking for a way to do that programmatically 17:49:20 luis: the output of ROOM is not exactly standardized; i wanna add some platform specific stubs to calculate/report available memory so you can do some rudimentary get-memory-size type operations at runtime 17:49:40 sykopomp: I'm looking for a more complete, concrete suggestion. 17:49:46 Xach: (and (fboundp 'asdf::asdf-version) (string>= (funcall 'asdf::asdf-version) "2.004")) 17:50:00 i guess i should try 'apply-output-translations 17:50:04 billitch: then you can (asdf:initialize-output-translations `(:output-translations (,pathname)) or something 17:50:12 ok thanks 17:50:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2AF82.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 17:50:25 once again, in doubt consult the manual 17:50:55 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 and don't forget to :inherit-configuration or whatever it is 17:51:15 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@209.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:51:21 sykopomp, it's (asdf:asdf-version) in asdf2 17:51:51 fusss: that seems to be within trivial-garbage's badly defined scope :) 17:51:54 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:51:55 run-time access to configuration is nice enough 17:52:02 Fare: what do you think of fe[nl]ix's suggestion? 17:52:24 Xach: as the manual says, you (or #+asdf2 (asdf:version-satisfies (asdf:asdf-version) "2.004")) 17:52:25 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:59 fe[nl]ix thing works if you want code that compiles under asdf1 yet still works after you upgrade to asdf2 17:53:16 Ok, thanks. 17:53:21 not string>= though, use a funcall of version-satisfies 17:53:58 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 luis: cheers; i can do ccl an sbcl, the rest is within your well defined scope ;-) 17:54:10 Xach: do you critically depend on 2.004 vs 2.003 or 2.000 ? 17:54:40 Fare: released abcl has a buggy asdf2 in the 1.7xxx range 17:54:45 fusss: I can do a #-(or sbcl ccl) (error "not implemented") sure :) 17:55:13 Xach, I sent them an email asking to upgrade to 2.004 17:55:30 I'm glad I don't have to wait for anyone! 17:55:42 I think we're about to release the 2.004 that Fare requested us to include. 17:55:49 *ehu* verifies 17:55:54 yup, runtime upgradability of ASDF was *THE* key feature. 17:56:26 allowing people to start using new features without having to wait for all the implementations to have upgraded their builtin asdf 17:56:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:10 but it was a bitch 17:57:28 anyone seen rpg lately? 17:57:50 He's been around recently. 17:58:09 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:09 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 17:58:57 hi fare, i heard about the blm on monday 17:59:09 hmm. the one we have on our branch has a line containing "VERSION:2.003"; that's not the right version then, I guess? 17:59:21 ehu: off by one! 17:59:33 because that's the version definition line, right? 17:59:46 not a version matching line? 18:00:04 hmm. that should be updated before we release then. 18:00:31 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.200] has joined #lisp 18:00:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 18:01:07 ok. that's easy. 18:01:15 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 lemme update the file. I see I can download it from the website. 18:01:25 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.160.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:41 http://l1sp.org/asdf/asdf.lisp too! 18:01:47 *Xach* has found that very helpful in the pst week 18:05:38 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:27 I *heart* ignore-errors in tight collecting loops 18:07:52 timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-32.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:56 fusss: isn't it better to specifically handle the errors you might expect?... 18:07:56 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:02 ...heh 18:09:09 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:32 troels [~user@0x5552ef45.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 18:09:51 -!- Komi is now known as Komi|off 18:11:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:24 slyrus_ [~slyrus@64.134.228.164] has joined #lisp 18:14:01 It's so frustrating when my CLISP script takes 20 seconds to run, while an awk script with same functionality takes less than a second :\ 18:14:01 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:09 Clisp, there's your problem 18:15:18 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 18:15:42 What would you recommend? 18:15:48 SBCL 18:16:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:16 Will see if that helps, thanks 18:17:57 palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 rirombo: you could also reconsider your approach to the solution. 18:18:16 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f925.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:34 'fix your algorithm' can have much bigger benefits than switching implementations. 18:19:34 there's cl-awk, too 18:19:35 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:58 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:02 Where is cl-awk? 18:20:03 for anything that you'd use awk for CL isn't likely to have good performance without heroic tricks 18:20:15 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:20:17 That's what I've been trying to do, but not very successfully. I started by using CL-PPCRE, but then thought it might be better to just use CL's SEARCH, since I didn't need actual regexp.. Though I suspect the bottle-neck occurs when trying to read a 364k line text file 18:20:24 since no CL implementation has a particularly performance tuned IO stack 18:20:33 jsnell: I see 18:20:47 jsnell: how do you read the file ? 18:21:03 Michael Weber's clawk does not compile for me. Does it compile for anyone else? 18:21:18 *stassats* uses mmap without much heroism 18:21:22 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:13 it is public knowledge that ITA uses mmap over large datafiles (and C++ accessors for bitdiddling) 18:22:23 mmap is interesting for large files 18:22:34 mmap is not interesting for text files 18:22:52 but you can get nice enough performances by reading large chunks (4k) at once 18:23:04 -!- palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:23:06 though i'm about to switch to using read/write(2), since i don't really need mmap 18:23:07 it's interesting if you do random access 18:24:16 the kind of thing a typical awk program will do is to sequentially read a text file line by line, and do some regexp matching. the only thing mmap can do here is allow you to bypass the CL implementation's IO stack 18:24:38 so for example for SBCL all the buffering and external format conversions 18:24:38 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@64.134.228.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:45 Fare: Why the C++ accessors? 18:25:18 at the cost of having to jump through hoops to convert the mmaped data to something that your lisp regexp library understands 18:25:52 should be easy with ASCII 18:25:56 nyef: because we trusted the C++ compiler more than the Lisp compiler to optimize bit-level access functions. 18:26:20 Umm... Doesn't the FFI overhead negate that? 18:26:24 and we needed very bit-compressed data to fit in memory 18:26:42 (that said, I think I posted a minimal mmap-based gray stream to sbcl-devel or sbcl-help at some point) 18:26:46 nyef: that's where we started moving more of the raw data semantics in C++ 18:27:01 though the search algorithm "intelligence" is in Lisp 18:27:25 lisp->mmap access is done with sbcl-defined accessors on define-alien-type structs. 18:27:28 jsnell, we might ork cows together at some point 18:28:09 however, ffi overhead is smaller than sbcl lack-of-optimization overhead in many cases. 18:28:18 foom: oh. What's in C++ ? 18:28:41 -!- fluffcms [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:12 Fare: a bunch of stuff. Mostly the code to select the right struct to pass to the lisp for further processing. 18:29:20 Fare: yes, welcome :-) I hope the regulatory obstacles get cleared 18:29:43 all the DB retrieval code is in C++, the processing on the retrieved records is in lisp. 18:29:58 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: homewards bound..] 18:32:29 *stassats* ponders the idea of storing on-disk format directly into memory and defining custom slot-value* methods instead of transforming all data 18:32:54 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:12 If anyone has used id3v2 app from SlackBuilds, have you ever had it corrupt (i.e. cut from 2.9M to 882K) the mp3 files that you were trying to set tags on? 18:34:36 is it written in lisp? 18:34:43 Err, wrong channel, sorry :P 18:34:59 i take it as a no 18:35:07 That's correct :) 18:35:46 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:06 there are several lisp apps to deal with mp3 id3v2 though 18:37:47 -!- ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has left #lisp 18:38:07 pp206 [pierre@sd-6391.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:38:28 Xach: when you say "does not compile" you mean "gives a full warning"? 18:40:35 ... Somehow, I have managed to break :fun-end breakpoints... And I am entirely failing to see how the obvious fix doesn't work. 18:41:04 lichtblau: it catches an ERROR in regex, actually. 18:41:51 actually, nope, in clawktest.lisp 18:43:06 milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.206] has joined #lisp 18:43:29 sergio_ [~serj@kde/developer/smartins] has joined #lisp 18:47:53 -!- tobik [~tobik@p54896FB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:48:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-206-155.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:11 tobik [~tobik@p54896FB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:20 -!- tobik [~tobik@p54896FB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:56 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-205-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:02 Hmm. 18:50:29 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:50:29 dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:50:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@109.144.212.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:32 I've installed a macroexpand-hook around loading an asdf system that counts the number of times macroexpand-hook is called. it's called way, way more often in ClozureCL than in clisp or sbcl. why might that be the case? 18:52:12 *Xach* hopes that mangled question can be understood 18:54:05 Well, the reason it's -allowed- to be the case is that the standard specifies that it may be called multiple times per form. 18:55:10 So, down to possibilities, some of which could be ruled out simply by the number of times the function is called on a given file. 18:55:24 First thing that comes to mind is that CCL might be calling it on all forms, not just macro forms. 18:56:04 Hmm. 18:56:05 Perhaps this is CCL's secret fast-compilation juice. 18:56:11  18:56:19 Next thing that comes to mind is that CCL might call it once for compile-time effects and once for load-time effects for the same form. 18:56:32 A third possibility is that CCL might simply have more macros involved internally. 18:56:58 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:27 which reminds me: is it specified that a macroexpander must be called for each occurrence of that macro (even on EQL forms)? 18:57:39 Xach: is it called when no macro is to be expanded? 18:58:16 or because lots of ccl internals would be themselves macros? 18:58:17 Fare: the info i have just a counter's value, and ccl's counter is a lot higher. 18:58:33 Xach: then to make experiments on simple files 18:58:41 and/or to ask on #ccl 19:00:19 here's the use case: at the moment, i'm redirecting normal compiler output when building and loading systems in quicklisp. but if all output is hidden, it's hard to tell if things have hung up when e.g. compiling & loading a system like ironclad, which takes a while. so i'm using *macroexpand-hook* to provide a very simplistic progress indicator: for every 50 times it's called, print a . 19:01:06 ccl's output just flies off the screen with that strategy, but sbcl and clisp show about half a page. 19:02:23 Xach: execute a string search on the output and count hits? I could see macroexpand-hook slowing compilation down, too. 19:02:48 you could also have it #+ccl 500 #-ccl 50 19:03:14 pkhuong: which output? 19:03:17 what about one message per file? 19:03:23 Xach: the compiler output you're redirecting. 19:03:41 Fare: can you suggest a way to know when a file's compilation is beginning? 19:03:53 (or count the number of time you expand a macro that starts with "DEF" ;) 19:04:04 pkhuong: I actually thought about limiting it to defuns... 19:04:07 a :before method on the compile-op ? 19:05:27 Fare: I don't really know how that might work. Is there any danger of clashing with user-defined :before methods? 19:06:48 at ITA we use a (defmethod asdf:perform :before ((operation asdf:operation) (component asdf:component)) 19:07:19 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:32 Good evening everyone! 19:07:37 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:38 and also a :after, apparently 19:07:49 both to show status and progress 19:07:50 Xach: How about creating separate metadata per file to store the expected number of macroexpansions and using that to drive a percentage counter? 19:07:55 depending on various flags 19:08:19 Fare: If my software defined a similar thing, would it clash? 19:08:58 no, because you wouldn't have access to our ITA methods :) 19:09:19 nyef: That's interesting, but doesn't seem like it wins the hassle/reward tradeoff. 19:09:23 but indeed, only one :before method may be defined on a given signature 19:09:51 I'll survey the implementations and maybe introduce a per-implementation scaling of the number of *m-h*s needed to trigger a character. 19:10:23 nyef: what do you recommend as a library to persist such metadata? 19:10:26 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:59 I wanted to use similar metadata to drive the compilation scheduler in XCVB 19:11:52 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:13:12 Fare: Library? Seriously? It's an integer associated with a filename. PRINT the damned thing. 19:13:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112716 19:13:50 Stick it in a plist accessed with :TEST #'EQUAL or something. 19:14:18 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:39 fusss_ [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 I'm more worried about atomicity, locking, etc. 19:18:39 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:32 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:19:50 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:19 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:22 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 19:20:28 Fare: why? It's write-almost-never. 19:20:44 pkhuong: Actually, it's the sort of thing that you'd update after every build. 19:21:34 nyef: then it's hinting metadata, and any error will be corrected after the next build. 19:21:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-24-165.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:42 Replacing typep by my own generic function made it about twice as fast, so only about 25 times slower as it used to be. Now, position-if seems to account for about half the execution time. 19:27:51 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.174.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:53 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 19:28:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:18 Fare: Hi. 19:29:22 Sorry; was out at lunch. 19:29:45 np 19:29:49 when is the deadline? 19:30:02 have you looked at my doodles? 19:30:26 pkhuong, because I wanted a shared distributed cache for object compilation... 19:31:08 someone suggested "put the data in a live server, it dies when the server dies, and/or it can write it to disk" 19:31:25 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:31:56 Fare: that's a different issue from hinting the number of times *m-h* is called. 19:33:12 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:17 yes - but it's still timing how long it took to compile a given file back when it was a given length on a given machine 19:33:22 using a given compiler 19:34:16 Fare: Skimmed. Sorry --- I'm in a proposal death march right now. 19:34:30 getting the count wrong isn't disastrous, and it needn't even be centralised in a server. 19:34:52 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:47 I realize that I have too many variables not being constant here, but on 1.0.32 on a 32-bit platform, it is still more than 20 times faster. And position-if is not mentioned in the sb-sprof:report. 19:37:21 Fare: the /abstract/ is due soon, but the paper has about a month after that. 19:37:27 Borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 -!- Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:46 -!- Komi|off is now known as Komi 19:40:18 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.126.210] has joined #lisp 19:41:04 rpg: are you satisfied with the abstract I provided? 19:41:56 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:57 pkhuong, no, wrong count isn't disastrous. Two clients clobbering each other's files resulting in trashed data is not good though 19:42:31 maybe as long as clients do some atomic file replacement we're fine - we just lose data. 19:42:48 not fully satisfactory but hey 19:43:19 problem being if the file gets big, clients start spending non-negligible time reading and writing the big cache metadata file. 19:44:30 Fare: I'd like to expand it, because I think I have a more expansive view of what we can accomplish in the paper. Then you can vet it and see if it goes too far for you. 19:44:55 np, as long as it fits in the required space (is that 16 pages?) 19:45:33 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:03 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:02 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:20 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-7378.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-56.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:51:05 Fare: I'm getting an interesting asdf failure with abcl... 19:51:10 *Xach* tries to distill it down 19:51:30 pnq [~nick@AC8118EC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8118EC.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 19:52:39 Xach, using 2.004? Please paste 19:53:48 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112717 19:54:21 I don't have any similar trouble with sbcl, which loads an old asdf first and then 2.004 on top. 19:54:38 the abcl in that case has 1.7xx and loads 2.004 on top 19:55:05 urandom_ [~user@p548A7B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 can you attach a backtrace? 19:55:46 who's asking for :name or rejecting it? 19:55:48 Fare: I think 15. Will check. BTW, I am going to push the abstract out into its own file and \input. Makes it easier for parallel work, etc. 19:56:19 if you like it 19:57:43 Fare: annotated. 19:57:49 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 19:58:17 Fare: maybe abcl doesn't support &allow-other-keys properly? 19:58:56 *Xach* does not know 19:59:53 oh. that's a known issue. 19:59:53 asarch [~asarch@189.188.160.229] has joined #lisp 20:00:00 ehu: What's the issue? 20:00:07 the issue is the :name error 20:00:12 in abcl. 20:00:15 What's the cause? 20:00:37 VALUES not being reset in the reader after executing a reader macro. 20:00:55 ah 20:01:09 so, a reader macro returns (VALUES) the next one returns NIL, but the runtime thinks it's still (VALUES) 20:01:22 that makes me super-sad. 20:01:25 because the values slot is stil an empty array. 20:01:35 I'll cut 0.21 20:01:39 tomorrow. 20:01:43 it's fixed there. 20:01:54 or you can grab your own today. 20:01:55 phew 20:02:03 *Xach* can wait 20:02:16 ok :-) 20:02:20 *ehu* feels the pressure 20:03:02 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:03:04 ehu: it MUST be READY for the boston lisp DEMO! 20:03:16 Fare: do you have lightning talkers? 20:03:40 when's that? 20:03:57 Xach: you're demo-ing ABCL? 20:04:16 ehu: ah, nothing. i hope to show some more people quicklisp on monday, and it would be nice if abcl works spiffily. 20:04:36 0.20 works fine enough, but the first thing i tried to actually load & run barfed on usocket's asd file 20:04:56 hmm 20:05:17 hmm? 20:05:32 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:34 ehu: If I want really quiet compilation on abcl, do I need to do the same dance as with sbcl? 20:05:45 that is, handle a special condition with a muffler? 20:06:23 yes. there's really no configuration values for it. 20:06:33 value* 20:06:35 What's the name of the condition? 20:07:35 can you give me a bit of your output? I don't actually think there's a special condition for what you want. (/me finally gets it) 20:07:43 ; Caught STYLE-WARNING: 20:07:44 ; The variable Y1 is defined but never used. 20:08:15 Also, how can I interrupt abcl to get a backtrace? It was silently chewing CPU and I wanted to know what it was doing. 20:08:45 Xach: sure, you're welcome to speak at BLM 20:09:16 Fare: I'll put something together for it. 20:10:06 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-113-2.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:10:44 possibly 20:10:59 (a problem with &allow-other-keys) 20:11:10 that key can probably go, anyway, but that sounds bad 20:12:58 Xach: I've tried to find out how to do what you want in Java, but this seems a really tricky thing to do. 20:13:50 ok. with the output you show, you could suppress the STYLE-WARNING; is that how you would do it in SBCL? 20:14:13 or is there yet another condition you'd suppress? 20:14:48 the :name is probably redundant and commentable 20:18:45 ehu: There are also notes about "deleting unused local function" 20:19:11 ehu: in sbcl, it's (handler-bind ((ql-sbcl:compiler-note #'muffle-warning)) ...) 20:19:22 ql-sbcl ???? 20:19:22 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:31 wazzat? 20:19:42 quicklisp's package for re-exported sbcl symbols. 20:19:46 ok 20:20:27 ok. I don't have a compiler-note-like condition. Is STYLE-WARNING a compiler note? 20:20:48 Hmm, I don't think so, but now I'm not sure. 20:21:16 *Xach* checks 20:21:21 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:43 hey fusss 20:22:36 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-24-165.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:25:17 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:32 ehu: the style-warnings are suppressed in sbcl with a handler-bind for warning and #'muffle-warning 20:25:48 that does not suppress abcl style-warnings 20:25:59 *Xach* will try specifically style-warnings 20:26:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:26:29 well. i wouldn't expect to need to, though. 20:27:02 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:55 xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 even when adding a handler-bind specifically for style-warning, it doesn't seem to muffle. 20:29:31 ehu: I have to leave. Is there a place where I can helpfully note this unexpected behavior? 20:32:25 *Xach* jets 20:33:44 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:26 -!- bbooth [~bbooth@skittles.dhcp.lbl.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:29 -!- troels [~user@0x5552ef45.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:43:48 Xach: yes: abcl's trac or on the mailing list. 20:45:22 gigamonkey [~user@c-24-7-84-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:48 troels [~user@0x5552ef45.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 pnq [~nick@AC81696A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81696A.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 20:48:34 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:42 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:53 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-163-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:51:17 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-166-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:51:55 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:34 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:54:37 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:48 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-166-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:33 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:01:57 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:08 -!- meder__ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:33 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:33 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f925.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:03:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:01 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:08 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-113-2.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.98.101.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:14:52 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:16:27 Anyone here going to ILC? 21:16:31 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.61.64] has joined #lisp 21:20:10 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e6d2f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 21:20:33 gigamonkey: i'm planning to go 21:21:08 So, here's what I'm thinking for my talk: something about the history of the standardization effort and how it affects us today, good and bad. 21:21:21 Possibly with some comparison to other standardization efforts. 21:21:26 What do you think? 21:22:16 Sounds interesting. 21:22:34 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:22:34 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:23:07 Good. 21:23:12 gigamonkey: what's the price to attend SPLASH? there's no registration info on the site. 21:23:19 symbole: no idea. 21:23:47 I'm just a speaker at ILC. I don't think that gets me into any of the other confs. 21:24:04 Though I suppose I should think about going as long as I'm there. 21:25:17 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:24 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:59 fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:00 gigamonkey: I sure hope to go. I really enjoyed the last one. 21:26:11 That was the one at MIT? 21:26:41 -!- fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:55 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:43 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:38 *rme* will be at the ILC in Reno 21:29:22 So, rme, what do you think of my talk topic? 21:30:49 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:06 gigamonkey: yes, that's the one. 21:31:20 gigamonkey: Admittedly, that one will be hard to beat, or even to match... 21:33:11 rpg: Yeah, I'm a bit sorry I didn't go to that one. 21:34:24 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 21:35:08 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:31 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:39 gigamonkey: what's your topic? 21:35:44 It was pretty amazing sitting next to some of my old lisp heroes. 21:35:52 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:57 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:29 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:36:55 sykopomp: something about the history of the standardization effort and how it affects us today, good and bad. 21:36:58 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-66-91-8-208.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-66-91-8-208.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:37:12 wish my old advisor had been there, since he's really in that cadre.... 21:37:16 gigamonkey: any mention of the future? 21:38:57 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:16 I'd attend it. I don't suppose anything like that standardization effort will ever happen again. The history seems fairly well-covered, but I'd be interested to hear how (or if) you think we can build on that without letting it be a millstone around our necks. 21:39:25 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39:39 rpg, where are you? 21:40:03 Fare: physically? Minneapolis... 21:41:07 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:41:13 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:41:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:42:12 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:34 gigamonkey: that sounds really interesting. 21:42:40 are the talks going to be recorded? 21:42:42 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.98.101.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: (p_l, thx for explaining :))] 21:43:27 sykopomp: dunno about recording. I'll touch on the future a bit, at least in terms of my point of view about what should happen. 21:44:34 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 21:45:45 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:01 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:48:28 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:51 rpg: I just pushed my changes regarding code upgrade, and considering it done as a first pass. Now to explaining API changes. 21:51:20 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:41 I missed the earlier discussion of SIGPIPE. 21:51:59 mega1: have anything to ask/offer? 21:52:13 that SIGUSR1 is not usable 21:52:34 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:52:43 that leaves us that with SIGUSR2 and SIGPIPE for interrupt-thread and stop-the-world 21:52:53 (in the other order) 21:53:18 SIGUSR1 is not usable because ... 21:53:25 see the commit message of 1.0.26.7. 21:53:40 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e2a1c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 21:53:42 Fare: OK will pull again. 21:53:44 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:09 One could maybe use a single signal and some flags instead of these two if needed. 21:54:53 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:55:35 if you don't install a handler for sigpipe you should be fine 21:55:55 extra sigpipes generated by the OS are harmless. 21:56:23 *nyef* adds "use the same signal for stop-for-gc and interrupt-thread" to his possible-projects list. 21:56:44 macdice [~user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:41 that one may involve some hair pulling 21:58:02 RenJuan [~juan@72.228.177.92] has joined #lisp 21:58:09 not that you have much left after those ppc bugs, I guess. 21:58:29 mega1: ok, but why need two signals? 21:58:34 I've come to the conclusion that the entire system and all of the backends need an audit. 21:58:50 it still would be better to only use SIGUSR2 than both SIGUSR2 and an abused SIGPIPE. 21:59:09 /away dinner 21:59:18 also, signal handlers should probably be chained or chainable, in case other applications or libraries want to use it. 21:59:20 Fare: I've just said above that I think it could be done. 21:59:30 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:08 Fare: you can chain already in one direction ... 22:00:13 do you need to other? 22:00:18 dunno. 22:00:18 s/to/the/ 22:00:22 I've found places that call fake_foreign_function_call() unconditionally, even if the thread was already in foreign code, GC invariants that are just plain not thought out correctly and thus have nasty race conditions with asynchronous interrupts, etc. 22:00:53 Fare: and is there a practical problem with sigpipe or is it just the abuse? 22:01:22 oracle libraries also use SIGPIPE, etc. 22:01:44 you mean they install handlers for sigpipe? 22:02:05 they are broken 22:02:16 but that's not helpful. 22:02:18 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:19 I think they do something weird if you have an existing sigpipe handler 22:02:35 I've read about such a library recently. 22:02:39 (and I think we work around by reinstalling the sbcl sigpipe handler after initializing them) 22:03:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:14 I see. They could be using SIGUSR2 too. 22:03:28 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:03:40 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:41 maybe a compile time / command line switch is in order 22:03:51 (plus the collapsing of the two signals) 22:03:52 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 22:03:54 *Fare* also wishes for a sbcl committer to upgrade asdf to 2.004 before or after the freeze. 22:05:38 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-228.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 22:06:45 *mega1* wishes for more time 22:09:18 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:28 meder [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.61.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:00 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 22:12:23 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:26 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 22:16:24 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:08 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:20:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:23:15 -!- sergio_ [~serj@kde/developer/smartins] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:23:36 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:23:40 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.126.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:27 sergio_ [~serj@89.180.4.167] has joined #lisp 22:25:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-56.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:26:32 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:27:59 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:28:18 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:24 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:34 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.174.179.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:33:43 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:40:02 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:08 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:04 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:11 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 22:42:40 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 22:45:15 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:16 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:39 -!- meder [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:48:28 -!- macdice [~user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 22:50:07 How can I get Clozure CL to find macports installed gpg? I get this error: "Error: Call to GPG failed. Perhaps GPG is not installed or not in the path." 22:50:48 When using asdf-install to install system-wide 22:51:00 cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:40 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:44 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-166-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:56:07 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #lisp 22:56:47 what is your $PATH? Where is gnupg? 22:59:39 lispm [~lispm@d221110.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:52 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:02 -!- faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:40 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:04 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:23 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-24-7-84-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:25 peterhil: I suggest getting rid of asdf-install :P 23:21:35 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:02 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23:50 marienz_ [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 23:24:25 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 23:25:11 peterhil: add the location to your path,if you have multiple gpg, make sure the desired one comes first 23:25:47 or patch verify-gpg-signature/singature in installer.lisp 23:25:56 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 620 seconds] 23:26:01 err. verify-gpg-signature/string 23:26:28 *Xach* recently realized his ql protocols can support an asdf-install-style mode 23:26:46 ql? 23:28:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:45 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-7378.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:29:40 quicklisp! 23:30:12 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:30:56 -!- marienz_ is now known as marienz 23:31:25 xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:04 quicklisp looks like something that could supersede my make-hacks for tracking 3rd party libs! 23:32:11 *silenius* bookmarks it for now 23:33:08 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-175.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:36 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 23:39:02 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:39:54 *Xach* hopes to have something ready Real Soon NOw 23:40:19 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-113-2.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-175.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:49:29 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:01 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:43 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 23:53:28 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:49 silenius: You mean setting the *verify-gpg-signature* variable to nil? I'd rather not, considering the software is installed from a *wiki*! 23:54:23 I have gpg installed on /opt/local/bin/gpg, which is first one on my path 23:54:29 -!- Cheery [~cheery@a88-113-49-213.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:54:33 peterhil:no, just set an absolute path in there 23:56:57 Where is that verify-gpg-signature/string? 23:56:58 peterhil: do you already have author's key signed? 23:58:18 I imported the keyring from common-lisp.org, if it's there then yes, otherwise not. 23:58:55 Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has joined #lisp 23:59:05 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:07 if you trust it