00:00:05 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:11 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 00:02:14 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:18 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:20 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:15 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.238.252.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: hi and bye ;)] 00:13:03 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:39 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 00:13:44 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.212] has joined #lisp 00:16:37 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:24 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 00:18:46 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:05 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:20:37 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:43 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:24:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:58 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:40 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:30:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:31:59 konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 00:33:23 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:55 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@host81-155-55-164.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:12 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-170-131.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:54 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:37:02 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-170-131.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:46 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:21 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #lisp 00:54:20 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:54:26 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:57:19 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:01:27 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.161] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:01:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:03:39 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:07 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:47 Whoa. save-lisp :executable t actually works on sparc now. Too bad it doesn't work on x86 anymore. :-( 01:09:31 -!- alt24 [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:55 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:04 it works here 01:12:12 on x86 01:12:17 which version do you have ? 01:12:26 *fusss* is dying for a working example of plexibbus-xpath usage 01:13:49 wbooze: The latest. But it depends somehow on the OS used to build the original. If cmucl was built on Redhat, then cmucl executables work. But on openSuSE it doesn't. It's also broken on FreeBSD. 01:15:46 someone forgot some libs at compile time ? 01:16:15 hmmmmmm 01:16:43 wbooze: So you did (save-lisp "foo" :executable t) and it works for you? What version? What linux distro? 01:16:50 debian 01:17:39 What version of cmucl? 01:17:41 sbcl 1.0.18 01:17:44 ups 01:17:57 Well, there you go. :-) 01:18:27 heh 01:18:34 right 01:18:38 hahaha 01:18:43 lol 01:18:46 why is it that CMUCL and "building" seem to form crazy accounts$ 01:18:48 *? 01:19:22 Maybe I don't belong here anymore? It's not #lisp, it's #sbcl. 01:19:36 rtoym: nah, untrue 01:19:44 just seems that SBCL got quite a following 01:20:00 (my uni still uses CMUCL, though I have no idea what for - no course seems to show Lisp) 01:20:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B47E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:20:49 What's the best way to compare two byte-vectors on sbcl? 01:21:00 p_l: How do you know it still uses cmucl? 01:21:11 rtoym: Installed on a machine somewhere? 01:21:35 Odin-: Presence doesn't mean usage. :-) 01:21:41 Odin-: part of CompSci RHEL image :) 01:21:56 though I bet the SWI-Prolog install gets more use 01:22:47 rtoym: True, but I didn't assume there was proof of usage, only presence. :p 01:22:52 p_l: I see. 01:23:46 p_l: Perhaps they have a "use odd languages" bit somewhere? 01:23:56 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:24:44 I'm really interested in some of the stuff I had seen in CMUCL manual that seems missing (or at least is undocumented) on SBCL, like sealing and block compilation. Doubtful though that I'll use it in short-term future :) 01:24:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.72] has joined #lisp 01:25:24 'sealing'? 01:25:36 Odin-: CLOS object sealing 01:25:41 I don't think I've ever used sealing. Block compilation is nice but I never use it in my own code. 01:26:14 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:26 sweet, i found "The Elements of Artificial Intelligence using Common Lisp" at the used bookstore today! 01:26:27 *Odin-* trundles off to the manual. :) 01:26:36 sealing came into discussion when I tried to adapt JVM's optimisations to CLOS :) 01:26:58 Hm. 01:27:36 This is stuff that allows the compiler to optimise OO stuff by saying "here, I'm done with this"? 01:28:07 Sealing means the object is frozen so the compiler can generate better code that can assume the object (class) never changes. 01:28:37 the optimisation I wanted to port was slightly simpler, it just used an inline cache 01:37:14 asarch [~asarch@189.188.156.14] has joined #lisp 01:37:49 p_l: Did it help? 01:40:47 rtoym: haven't got occassion to write it down, though I have enough grasp on assembly to do it now. I'll look into it once I get enough time to finish my C++ FFI :) 01:42:26 minion: memo for Krystof: Re fasl loading; I'm wondering if we could benefit from an emacsy autoloading mechanism. The long loading times are mostly annoying when using scripts, and in scripts much of the loaded code won't ever be executed, so JIT loading may be an idea to pursue? 01:42:26 Remembered. I'll tell Krystof when he/she/it next speaks. 01:43:28 hmmm 01:43:32 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 01:43:35 tcr: do you mean Emacs fasls or SBCL ones? 01:44:05 fasls is a pretty CL-specific term as far as I'm aware 01:44:14 How do Schemes & Clojure call their equivalents? 01:44:40 Scheme usually uses fasl as well, dunno about clojure 01:44:52 jars 01:44:55 hehe 01:45:03 that would be "image" :P 01:45:22 clojure is actually a nice lisp, quite uncommon though 01:45:55 true 01:51:12 TheLolrus: i dont like emacs either 01:52:00 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:56:37 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:38 rtoym_ [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 02:00:45 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:51 -!- rtoym_ is now known as rtoym 02:00:56 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:58 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:02:28 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:31 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:12 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 02:06:19 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:36 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:12 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:28 -!- medgno [~user@c-75-72-238-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:47 chp [3b43219e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.67.33.158] has joined #lisp 02:13:34 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:15:11 did anyone think of making clojure a CL? 02:15:29 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:09 probably 02:16:39 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:19:58 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:21:21 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2008/12/01/clojure-lisp-on-the-jvm/ reminds me of strabismicgobbedlygook.com 02:21:43 There is always ABCL 02:23:59 michael` [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.212] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:24:34 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:37 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.212] has joined #lisp 02:24:59 -!- michael` is now known as ][V][ 02:25:11 -!- ][V][ is now known as ][V][ICHAEL 02:26:03 *gobbledygook, guess it was the middle part of an URL 02:26:16 Lycurgus: I had to stop reading here: "When you work with CLISP or Scheme you are dealing with a mature, and pretty much static language. They are pretty much set in stone at this point, and they are very reluctant of introducing new features." 02:26:21 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.72] has quit [Quit: bye!] 02:26:25 bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-gbwzajzklhwdlnop] has joined #lisp 02:26:49 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.72] has joined #lisp 02:26:59 well scheme grandfathers itself in by predating CL, having a standard, etc. 02:27:07 oconnore: Yes. I hate it when they spell CL as CLISP. 02:27:18 Other than that, and including scheme, what mistakes did they make? 02:28:05 The whole point of Lisp is that it tries to be the complete opposite of "static". 02:28:49 I think you've misunderstood that sentence. 02:28:56 He's talking about the language specification. 02:29:12 Not about the environment that those specifications specify. 02:29:15 Yes, but the language specification doesn't really matter. 02:29:16 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:18 i doubt that quote is referring to CL as CLISP 02:29:29 Yes, it really does. 02:29:33 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625223402]] 02:29:42 Without that language specification your code is pretty well meaningless. 02:29:46 i presumed CLISP was CLISP 02:30:06 lycurgus: That would require a very odd interpretation of the sentence. 02:30:10 whose codeset is it's defacto specification, such as it is 02:30:44 sayint that the person would confound CL with CLISP seems odder to me 02:30:51 *saying 02:30:55 Happens all the time. 02:31:06 PLT - turned Racket exceeded the language specification. Yet that code is quite meaningful. 02:31:22 You have to go around explaining to people to say CL rather than CLISP. 02:31:48 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:31:55 so there's no equivocation with the CLISP implemenation/project? 02:32:32 I don't see how or why someone would compare clisp with scheme in that regard -- it would be like comparing fortran and gcc. 02:33:04 And if they were doing that, then it would undermine their point, since clisp has a bunch of extensions upon CL. 02:34:21 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:34:51 including, *gasp*, modern mode 02:34:53 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:24 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 02:37:18 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 02:41:29 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:42:26 <][V][ICHAEL> (test) 02:42:44 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 02:42:53 Stop that. 02:48:25 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:16 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:18 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:55:59 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:58:00 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:58:09 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:00:08 -!- chp [3b43219e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.67.33.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:01 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 03:04:34 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:36 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:52 fatblueduck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:25 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:22 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:40 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:56 hohoho [~hohoho@s211-57.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:34:31 fatelang [~user@24-217-193-233.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 :y 03:36:33 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:57 I am trying do something like (let ((x t)) (if (unboundp y) :y)), where unboundp is a macro that determines if its argument is a bound variable. I've tried a few things, none of which have suppressed the error message, while allowing me to return a value. 03:39:30 Hmm. To make cmucl exec work, it looks like I have to figure out how the os knows where to put the malloc space. Right now it goes right on top of the Lisp heap. :-( 03:40:20 (unboundp y) could expand to (not (boundp 'y)) 03:40:22 fatelang: What do you need this for exactly? 03:40:33 rtoym: I think he wants that to work on lexical variables 03:41:25 Oh. That's a different animal. 03:42:28 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:42:47 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:37 fatelang, http://paste.lisp.org/display/112665 03:43:44 tcr: Hard to describe briefly, but a macro that needs to get a value either from a lexical variable, the property list of a keyword or the results of an sexp. All but the lexvar works. 03:44:55 Oh, I don't actually pass a keyword, I pass an unquoted symbol that may exist as a keyword. 03:45:05 (let ((x 42)) (declare (ignorable x)) ...) if you wanna get rid of the warning at compile time, fatelang 03:45:50 fate: Have the macro generate code that does that. 03:45:52 fatelang: The case for the lexical variable is the same as the case for the sexp 03:47:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@s211-57.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:33 lnostdal: The paste works, but is that sbcl only? 03:48:49 fatelang, yup; SBCL only 03:49:22 tcr: Reversing my conditions may allow me to treat the lexical variable the same as the sexp. Thanks. 03:54:53 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:55:36 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:56 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:13 -!- fatelang [~user@24-217-193-233.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:27 fatelang [~user@24-217-193-233.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:37 -!- fatelang [~user@24-217-193-233.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:57 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:11 sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 04:08:49 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:11:17 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:12:48 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:18:02 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:22 Good morning everyone! 04:25:36 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 04:26:13 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 04:27:21 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:45 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:13 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:32:17 beach: morning 04:32:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-12-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:33:50 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-87-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:34:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:39:03 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:08 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:54 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:28 moin beach 04:43:08 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:44:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:41 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-85-227.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:55:00 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-92-16.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:00:52 beach: what license is SICL under? 05:01:37 p_l: Public domain, but I have to figure out how to phrase that because public domain isn't legally acceptable everywhere. 05:02:45 -!- rme [rme@clozure-CE906C7B.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:02:45 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-164.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:02:50 beach: MIT sounds good enough, there's also WFTPL or something like that 05:03:15 beach: then don't use PD, and use a single licence instead 05:03:15 Yeah, I have been told about all that. It is not important at the moment. 05:03:40 beach: anyway, it means SICL is usable for what I wanted to do :3 05:03:44 I grant an irrevokable license to do whatever the hell you want with this. 05:04:02 I agree. 05:04:13 <_3b`> beach: did you see my bug reports over the last few days? 05:04:38 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:01 *_3b`* is down to 15 fail/11 errors on the sacla cons tests 05:05:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nxtynweqdomxxjob] has joined #lisp 05:05:15 hawkbill [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hpmzjfmjlxliqsye] has joined #lisp 05:05:15 -!- hawkbill [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hpmzjfmjlxliqsye] has quit [Client Quit] 05:05:16 I didn't see them. 05:05:23 You reported them here? 05:05:27 <_3b`> yes 05:05:32 *p_l* finds that SICL already includes all the stuff he needs, yay! 05:05:37 I'll check the logs. 05:06:09 p_l: What is it that you want to use it for? 05:07:04 beach: I need a custom reader that will let me read code including information about reader macro use (but not actually execute them) 05:07:28 I could use a readtable, but I'm wary of missing some detail 05:07:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:08:17 I want to make a graphical form for CL-like code and a good syntax highlighting 05:08:41 I see. As I recall, the SICL reader lacks most of the standard reader macros though. 05:09:22 beach: I need more of "hey, a reader macro found, let's return an object describing it" 05:09:30 I see. 05:09:45 cause I'm writing it back including the macros 05:10:00 -!- ][V][ICHAEL [~user@cpe-76-172-217-134.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:13:13 That reminds me. I need to go and butcher clisp's reader some more so that it demand generates packages. 05:15:31 <_3b`> beach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EXM is what i did for PUSHNEW, haven't tested it much yet though 05:15:45 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:16:23 _3b`: Thanks! 05:16:51 <_3b`> beach: though reading down to the next test failure, i found another bug in it :p 05:17:09 Annoyingly it looks like they wrote it in C. 05:17:10 That's good! :) 05:17:14 <_3b`> :key nil seems to confuse it 05:17:37 <_3b`> (assuming that isn't a bug in sacla tests) 05:18:10 davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has joined #lisp 05:18:13 <_3b`> looks like NIL is specifically allowed 05:18:20 :key nil is allowed, but the spec doesn't say what it means. 05:18:29 presumably the same as if it is not given. 05:18:31 <_3b`> means the same as not supplied 05:18:37 yeah. 05:18:52 Ah, it says so. 05:19:05 <_3b`> so i guess just drop key-p and use key directly in the if 05:19:16 Sounds good. 05:21:21 Is there a trick to figuring out where the backtrace of my program begins when using SLIME? 05:22:05 I got an error when evaluating a sexp, but the backtrace is littered with SWANK stuff 05:22:32 you usually read a backtrace from the top... 05:23:09 Yes, and the top of the backtrace contains things like SWANK::*SLDB-STEPPING-P* and SWANK::*SLDB-LEVEL* 05:23:12 rirombo: there should be a call to some EVALUATE-... function in SWANK package with textual representation of your sexp, that's where SWANK calls into your code 05:23:44 <_3b`> beach: ah, i guess my fix to pushnew is probably wrong 05:24:09 p_l: Ah, great, thanks! It was #21 on the backtrace :) 05:24:38 <_3b`> beach: i think i broke some code intended to avoid multiple evaluation 05:24:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:25:02 _3b`: OK, I'll look into it. Can you send me a test that demonstrates failure? 05:25:19 I guess that would be the SACLA tests, huh? 05:25:25 <_3b`> yeah 05:27:12 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:13 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 05:27:28 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-154-26.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:27:41 _3b`: Did you find any bugs in other functions or macros as well? 05:29:03 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 05:29:07 <_3b`> just what i've mentioned here in the last few days i think 05:29:24 OK. 05:34:23 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-154-26.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:31 Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-65-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:00 -!- syntaxman [wade@funtoo/user/syntaxman] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:35:54 syntaxman [wade@secure.syntaxman.org] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 -!- syntaxman [wade@secure.syntaxman.org] has quit [Changing host] 05:35:54 syntaxman [wade@funtoo/user/syntaxman] has joined #lisp 05:37:35 Could anyone remind me how to suppress ASDF's output? 05:38:57 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vbfjfrhevqumxiqe] has joined #lisp 05:39:19 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:44 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:40:02 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:16 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:47:05 Or maybe a more general: what would be a CL equivalent of UNIX shell's "> /dev/null"? 05:47:35 <_3b`> bind *standard-output* and similar vars 05:48:11 But what would I bind them to? 05:48:15 Or can they be just set to nil? 05:48:36 That is, will things start complaining when *standard-output* turns out to be nil? 05:48:39 <_3b`> not sure if nil works, possibly (make-broadcast-stream)? 05:49:02 <_3b`> yeah, looks like NIL is bad 05:51:28 Thanks, I think (make-broadcast-stream) will work 05:52:20 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:52:41 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:55:25 That said, I cannot figure out which stream ASDF prints "0 errors, 0 warnings". Both *standard-output* and *standard-error* are bound to the broadcast stream 05:56:13 -!- konr` is now known as konr 05:56:14 Looking at the source might help. 05:57:09 rirombo: *standard-error*, really? 05:58:24 lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 05:59:32 pkhuong: Just because it's not an actual standard stream doesn't mean I can't bind it just for completeness' sake ;) Thanks for pointing that out. 06:06:28 _3b`: Improved version of pushnew. More tests still needed though. 06:07:34 <_3b`> beach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EXO i think has all the other things i saw 06:08:00 teej_ [~teej@c-68-44-157-49.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:18 Ah, excellent! That saves me a lot of time scanning the logs. 06:10:01 -!- teej_ [~teej@c-68-44-157-49.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:11:16 <_3b`> pushnew still declares KEY ignored 06:12:12 <_3b`> and there might have been cases where there isn't a KEY to declare ignorable in the expansion 06:13:16 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.156.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:14:48 <_3b`> which would be any time :key isn't passes i guess 06:20:19 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 06:21:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:24:55 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 06:25:12 Hmm. OK. 06:25:18 More tests are needed I guess. 06:25:46 Fixed pop I think. 06:25:57 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:28:41 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:29:31 -!- mdj [~mjenkins@apnonl.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:33 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:46 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30:59 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:33:31 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:53 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:42:27 good morning 06:43:34 mornings 06:45:40 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 06:46:51 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:51:49 hello mvilleneuve 07:01:52 what's the standard way to get hash tables with support for arbitrary comparison predicates? 07:03:45 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:05:48 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:36 Ralith: Your question is incorrect. 07:07:18 Ralith: But if you can write a hash-function then you could make a hash-table keyed upon those hash-keys. 07:07:29 You'd then have to handle disambiguation. 07:08:15 That's not quite 'arbitrary comparison predicates', but it's as close as you'll get with hash tables in the picture. 07:09:35 Zhivago: I thought I recalled there being a lib people commonly used that gave hash tables with support for arbitrary ":test"s 07:09:45 <_3b> there might also be implementation dependent ways of adding tests, not sure if that is common enough to rely on though 07:09:55 not looking for a necessarily *optimal* solution. 07:11:24 Well, it's put it like this ... 07:11:41 Imagine a predicate that didn't impose a total ordering. 07:11:55 How would you find things given such an organization? 07:12:15 You'd have to iterate it as a list, although a skip-list could be used. 07:12:28 You're going to have to get a bit more specific than arbitrary. 07:12:37 I was fairly sure such a lib exists 07:12:38 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:51 but if you're quite certain there's not, my problem is indeed not general. 07:13:02 I'm trying to hash SBCL SAPs 07:13:09 So, convert them into integers. 07:13:17 ...that is a remarkably good idea 07:13:21 *Ralith* feels kind of silly. 07:13:29 Ralith: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Hash-Table-Extensions.html 07:13:49 Zhivago: any way to get the hash table object to do that implicitly? 07:14:00 lichtblau: thanks, moot now though 07:15:59 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 07:16:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:17:12 :hash-function #'cffi:pointer-address? 07:18:29 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:46 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:23:52 So, I've defined readers and writers for slots on a class. Then I define the class, with just :initargs for those slots, and I get: 07:23:52 -!- davekong [~davekong@unaffiliated/davekong] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:23:57 The generic function # takes 1 required argument; was asked to find a method with specializers (# #) 07:24:10 (x is the slot, the class is, unhelpfully, named "object") 07:24:19 I have no idea what that means; any hints? 07:24:57 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:28:06 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:29:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:41 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:44 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 07:31:10 _3b: I think that takes care of all the problems you spotted so far. 07:32:01 How would I know (parse-integer) would be a cpu hog for my kind of input? Oh well... 07:33:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:34:34 didi: Ouch. 07:34:46 Isn't there a classic story about that issue, back in the day? 07:35:46 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:51 rlpowell: I wouldn't know. I am just a newbie. :) 07:36:32 hm 07:36:57 Zhivago: shouldn't :hash-function #'cffi:pointer-address and :test 'eql work? 07:37:18 Not in CL. 07:37:27 in SBCL., 07:37:32 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 given that CL doesn't define :hash-function, afaik. 07:37:49 but I'm asking about SBCL. 07:37:52 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:37:56 Then that's more plausible -- I'd check the documentation. 07:38:01 have 07:38:24 haven't found a very clear description of what hash-function is supposed to look like except return a >0 fixnum 07:38:34 ooh, wait. 07:38:37 I bet I know what's going on. 07:38:43 right that was stupid. 07:39:03 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:39:08 thanks for rubberducking 07:39:54 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 hm. 07:42:29 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:43:09 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-136.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 07:44:05 sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:27 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d3f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:23 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:22 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:23 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:38 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 07:48:01 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-157-229.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:51:52 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:10 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:42 Could anyone remind me what that function is that returns unique symbols? 07:56:09 gensym? 07:56:19 Yes! Thanks :) 07:56:20 gentemp too. 07:56:36 and make-symbol too. 07:58:04 Well, gensym doesn't guarantee uniqueness, per se. 07:58:36 gentemp interns symbols 07:59:20 Zhivago: so there are circumstances where two gensym calls could return the same symbol? Is that a practical issue or mostly just theoretical? 07:59:40 It depends on how perverse you are. 07:59:56 how perverse do you have to be? 07:59:59 gensym keeps a counter which you can fiddle with. 08:00:09 There are some cases where this can be useful. 08:00:10 they're still uninterned, though 08:00:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:20 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-19-99.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:28 Oh, well, then make-symbol should be good enough for you :) 08:00:30 so they might have the same name but they won't be the same symbol, right? 08:00:33 well yeah 08:00:43 but the question was uniqueness 08:00:46 not uniqueness of name 08:00:49 What do you want uninterned symbols for? 08:01:04 ask the guy who asked the question :P 08:01:13 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:42 If you really want unique symbols you could iterate through them until you can't find one. 08:02:45 <_3b> is there something that tracks uninterned symbols through which one could iterate? 08:03:19 Nah, you iterate through the space of all possible symbol names. 08:03:32 (Or a subset of it) 08:03:45 <_3b> where do you try to find them to eliminate conflicts though? 08:03:45 Then you keep going until you get one that isn't there. 08:03:47 (loop repeat 10 collect (make-symbol "unique")) gives always ten different symbols. 08:03:52 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:04:05 gensym would too, since it doesn't intern them. 08:04:10 If you make "A" and you can find a symbol called "A", then try "B", and so on. :) 08:04:28 So intern "enters a symbol named string.." - sorry I don't follow how that affects this process, or the benefit/difference that would give to gentmp? Gensym creates symbols too, what's the difference if they're interned or not? 08:04:42 Zhivago: probably you cannot find a symbol named "A". If the only symbol named "A" hasn't been interned, probably you will never find it out. 08:04:45 Zhivago: speedy 08:04:57 pjb: If it weren't interned then you don't care. 08:05:21 I don't know if I don't care. Let's ask rirombo. 08:05:39 TomJ-: (eq (make-symbol "A") (make-symbol "A")) 08:05:47 --> NIL 08:06:07 TomJ-: (let ((symbol (make-symbol "A"))) (eq symbol symbol)) 08:06:16 --> T 08:06:16 that is why uninterned symbols are useful. 08:07:25 TomJ-: it's basically a way to get the implementation to absolutely guarantee that a symbol is unique. 08:07:51 if you used gentmp, you could accidentally later bind a symbol with the same name and it would conflict. 08:08:01 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 08:09:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:09:42 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:42 zophy-ng [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:01 OK. Back on track. That was just a regression. 08:10:29 -!- zophy-ng [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:10:36 didi you see my mirror functions? 08:10:40 Why are you setting the value of symbol to the result of comparing it with itself? I don't follow what that achieves (sorry if my newbieness is too much it's not important, just a bit about my level atm) 08:11:04 TomJ-: check the parentheses! 08:11:16 TomJ-: I'm not performing any such assignment. 08:11:17 pjb: Yes. It is kind of hard to understand. I found the second one more palatable. 08:11:19 (let ((symbol (make-symbol "A"))) #|put a new line here|# (eq symbol symbol)) 08:11:25 it may help to indent it in emacs. 08:11:34 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:24 didi: IIRC, Xach provided a similar function to my first. It's a classical pattern, called accumulator, where you have a terminal-recursive function that accumulates partial results in parameters until the final result can be returned. 08:12:31 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:43 Xach: herep 08:12:55 didi: it's actually a loop structure, like the named let in scheme. 08:12:59 I mean, it's kind of hard for *me* to understand. I didn't mean to be rude. 08:13:20 didi: you weren't, I'm just explaining. 08:13:33 Great. :) 08:13:49 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:11 didi: actually, in CL we would more often just use LOOP or some other iterative construct. 08:14:13 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:14:18 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14:37 minion: memo for Xach: skippy (win32 ccl) is being really naughty! (output-data-stream (load-data-stream #p"bar.gif") #p"foo.gif") when bar.gif exists and foo.gif doesn't results in continuous writing, had to stop it at 50 megs for a 5.1kb source file! 08:14:37 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 08:14:46 moin lispers 08:15:00 pjb: you mean a fold? 08:15:02 hola kiuma 08:15:05 or, in CL, reduce 08:15:15 moin moin kiuma 08:15:34 Ralith: no it's different. 08:16:34 (labels ((reverse (list result) (if (null list) result (reverse (cdr list) (cons (car list) result))))) (reverse some-list)) 08:16:40 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 We accumulate in result the partial results until we can return it, in a terminal recursive call of the function. 08:17:41 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:22:00 Ralith / pjb: oh sorry yeah. the body eq checks whether it was created OK, so that the expression returns true if the new symbol was created. I keep forgetting that let is a control structure 08:23:09 TomJ-: um, no, it doesn't check whether it was 'created OK' 08:23:12 it checks if it's equal to itself. 08:23:37 well I meant that is the intent? It wil lonly not be equal to itself if it was not created OK? 08:23:54 no, the intent is to explain to you why uninterned symbols are useful. 08:24:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d3f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:25:04 TomJ-: it cannot be created not OK 08:26:26 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:07 didi: notice that while my second function is O(n) like the first, the constant factors are greater in the second one: it will be slower in general. For small lists it doesn't matter and it is better to have a clearer code (less bug-prone). For big lists, performance may be more important so you may have to invest more time in implementing and debugging the more complex function to reduce the constant factors. 08:29:00 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 pjb: The list is kind of big (10^6 digits) but it doesn't seem to be causing trouble. 08:31:39 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:35:24 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-88-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:24 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:35:30 xan_ [~xan@109.144.214.19] has joined #lisp 08:36:02 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 94SAAB4N8 [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-88-20.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:37:37 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:37:46 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:37:46 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 08:38:58 -!- 94SAAB4N8 [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39:22 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 08:43:31 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:44:14 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:44:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:45:10 Ralith: Sorry. I do understand a bit more about intern/unintern now (read docs for gensym, gentemp, make-symbol and PCL chapter). But I can't follow what you're showing because (let ((symbol (gentemp "A"))) (eq symbol symbol)) also returns T, so I don't see how (un)intern is impacting it. It's OK though, I need to read more anyway, thanks for your help so far 08:45:20 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441534.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:34 TomJ-: (eq symbol symbol) is always going to return T when the value of the variable is a symbol. 08:46:54 TomJ-: That has nothing to do with interning. 08:48:16 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:48:35 Ok then I didn't really understand what point he was making showing in the context of the disadvantage of a gentemp / interned sym. I do now understand a lot more about interning though so that's good :) Thanks 08:49:15 TomJ-: it's interesting as a contrast to the fact that (eq (make-symbol "A") (make-symbol "A")) returns nil 08:49:39 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441121.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:51:02 Ralith: but so does (eq (gentemp "A") (gentemp "A")) so basically I'm seeing identical results with make-symbol or gentemp in both the examples - first is always NIL, second always T, so where does the intern/unintern difference show? 08:51:40 TomJ-: gentemp returns a symbol with a different name 08:51:51 maketemp returned symbols with whatever name you provide 08:52:14 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 08:53:04 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:22 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-88-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:55:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:54 TomJ-: Try this in a fresh SBCL: (defparameter *s* (gentemp)) (eq *s* 'T1) 08:58:04 TomJ-: It should return T. 08:58:54 spiaggia: it returns NIL in SLIME 2010-05-13, which is using a recent sbcl I thought 08:59:46 TomJ-: Are you sure it was a fresh image? 09:00:03 oh sorry I had run a few things in it before, one sec 09:01:24 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Quit: moving] 09:01:24 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:49 TomJ-: If that fails, do this instead (defparameter *s* (gentemp)), then type *s* and look at the name of the symbol, finally type (eq *s* '). 09:01:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.76] has joined #lisp 09:02:06 sorry yes now it is T (don't understand that either - I hadn't bound *s* or T1 to anything in that session, what was different?) 09:02:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.76] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:55 It has nothing to do with *s*, only with whether you already called (gentemp) in that image. 09:03:04 TomJ-: Do you see why it returns T? 09:03:24 mk2 [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 09:04:06 oh yes sorry of course, because it has a counter and you hardcoded T1 as first var. Why it returns T.. well if I passed in "A" it would call it A, but I passed in no value, so I guess it defaults to T maybe as the value if no name is specified? so T unless something is passed? 09:04:12 TomJ-: Now, if you replace (gentemp) with (make-symbol "T1"), there is nothing you can type after (eq *s* that will give the result T. 09:04:45 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:23 TomJ-: The reason it returns T is that the symbol created by gentemp is interned in the current package, so when you type the name of that symbol in the expression (eq *s* 'T1) you get the same symbol. 09:05:33 spiaggia: you can type *s*! 09:05:57 stassats: Yes, I should have said after (eq *s* ' 09:06:55 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:06:56 TomJ-: However with (make-symbol "T1"), the result is not interned, so there is no sequence of characters that you can type that will return that symbol. 09:07:26 spiaggia: #.*s*) 09:07:45 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082DE76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:59 stassats: I am attempting a pedagogical simplification here :) 09:11:03 TomJ-: Is this clear? 09:11:42 -!- Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:34 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:03 Yes it does, thanks very much spiaggia - sorry phone rang. 09:17:40 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:16 TomJ-: Here is another one. Can you explain why (let ((a (gensym))) (eq a a)) return T but (symbol-macrolet ((a (gensym))) (eq a a)) return NIL? 09:19:06 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:10 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 09:19:37 TomJ-: I am asking because you gave some hints before that you do not quite understand the evaluation model of Common Lisp. 09:21:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-170-131.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:26 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:24:05 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 09:24:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:50 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:50 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 09:25:50 toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:21 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:26:30 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 09:28:33 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28:36 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:28:40 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:29:10 Yes I definitely don't. I'm up to about page 100 in PCL and have read some other examples but am still missing quite a lot of the fundamentals. Erm, something to do with the symbol-macrolet being evaluated at compile time, and then at run time getting a different result ? not sure 09:30:15 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:32:00 TomJ-: With the let, (gensym) is evaluated once, and (a reference to) the result is assigned to the variable a. When you compare (eq a a), you have two identical references, so it returns T. In the case of symbol-macrolet, it is as if you wrote (eq (gensym) (gensym)), so gensym gets evaluated twice, giving two different symbols, and so the comparison gives NIL. 09:32:14 -!- stettber` is now known as stettberger 09:32:52 Ah of course, yeah I did read something about that. Thanks a lot spiaggia, that's really helpful 09:33:03 No problem. 09:35:57 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:27 -!- fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:26 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39:29 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:40:56 TR2N [email@89-180-165-249.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 09:44:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:37 TomJ-: An advice: Be careful with side-effects. They come late at the night and BITE YOU. 09:45:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:47:40 and biting is when they are playful, not malign 09:49:23 Yeah I'm fairly good with that in other languages - I mean, I'm no FP expert, but I try to have the majority of my code not have side effects to simplify unit testing as much as anything. 09:49:32 Still trying to get my head around al lthe implications of Lisp, but in general it's like the mothership is calling me home. It's just amazing. 09:50:36 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-28.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:13 What is even more amazing is that languages have been invented in the past 30 years or so that don't recognize the advantages of some of the features of Lisp. 09:51:14 TomJ-: I am just talking out of my own experience. As you be typing a lot from slime, things will keep its values. 09:52:06 spiaggia: Yeah. That confuses me. Paul Graham spoke about how Lisp was a major competitive advantage for his Viaweb, and also that airline booking company that just sold to Google for $700m. So it's amazing that so few people have woken up to the potential commercial benefits 09:52:20 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:30 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:40 TomJ-: Strange alien technology tends to have that effect. 09:52:41 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 I mean, I know there's follow the herd / use 'industry standards' and all that corp crap, but there's a lot of startups out there. I blame LAMP :) 09:53:12 TomJ-: Most of the startups also follow the herd, because that's what they know. 09:53:18 TomJ-: vendetta online and neuro-arena both use Common Lisp for modern game application 09:53:28 it's encouraging :) 09:53:30 galdor: nice 09:53:34 TomJ-: It takes a significant effort to break out of the prevailing model. 09:55:10 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:55:30 Macros are just perfect. I got excited about reflection when I learnt Python. Lisp is a whole new world. 09:58:01 Not sure if they could really be described as perfect 09:58:23 Macros can get a little hairy sometimes, if abused. 09:58:53 or the proper precautions not taken 10:00:11 but you still have the freedom! and that is what matters 10:01:14 that is.. Freedom to shoot you in the foot while hanging yourself 10:01:32 but also freedom to do what you want without a compiler complainig 10:02:08 Hi, I just finished a kd-tree implementation: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EXS with screenshots on http://imgur.com/dyzhC&eGPb9l 10:02:22 I kind of like noisy compilers, one the cool things with SBCL 10:02:31 one/one of 10:03:13 Of course you can still hang yourself while trying to shoot yourself in the foot 10:05:07 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn198.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:20 mk2: cool 10:05:20 Xach, memo from fusss: skippy (win32 ccl) is being really naughty! (output-data-stream (load-data-stream #p"bar.gif") #p"foo.gif") when bar.gif exists and foo.gif doesn't results in continuous writing, had to stop it at 50 megs for a 5.1kb source file! 10:05:21 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:18 hmm 10:07:33 TomJ-: the majority of software developers either need a) Visual Basic equivalent - fast, simple and dirty b) Something that is Always Available - C/C++ etc. c) (Corporate) Something We Can Switch Developers Like Lego Bricks - Java/C#. 10:08:13 AFAIK "talent retention" and similar thinking is rare 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:34 Guthur: only hang yourself? :) 10:10:40 Guthur: there is a differenve between noisy compilers and compilers that wont let you do a thing! 10:10:44 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:10:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:15:03 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:17:15 TR2N` [email@89.180.165.249] has joined #lisp 10:18:09 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-165-249.net.novis.pt] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:18:16 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 10:19:44 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:25:55 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:03 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:14 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 10:43:30 Komi [Komi@62.32.130.27] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-545.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:48:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:42 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 10:55:43 fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:21 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:47 -!- meder [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:03:20 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 Strav [~user@dsl-63-57.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 11:07:46 Hmm. It seems there has been some prototype oriented object systems in lisp so it might actually makes sense to ask: is anyone here familiar with the following article: http://web.media.mit.edu/~lieber/Lieberary/OOP/Delegation/Delegation.html 11:08:54 -!- dj-datavirus627 [~dj-datavi@c83-255-16-153.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:54 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:12:27 djdatavirusd627 [~dj-datavi@c83-255-16-153.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:13:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:45 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:16:26 dsop [~dsop@wthack.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:14 Strav: you may be interested in: http://www.cliki.net/Sheeple 11:18:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-221.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 pix4 [~pixel@p4FC56818.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:50 :) well I am. But while philosophically all for the idea of concepts only existing a prototypes instances (I'm more an Aristotle man); I'm actually trying to figure out some cases where a prototype approach is what's closest to the problem. 11:23:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.10] 11:24:43 Which brings me to the point 10 of the article I mentionned above for I'm not really certain about the opposition the author makes on the "communication patterns to be decided at runtime". 11:24:52 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-85-227.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:55 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-137.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:24:55 madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has joined #lisp 11:25:29 -!- toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 11:26:52 (in breif, I'm wondering if in the end, he's saying that with delegation, it's easy to add "on-the-fly" behavior to an existing object by delegating a message to another that includes this behavior); instead (if we forget dynamic object composition) 11:27:07 well, i think don't know if prototype-based *is* better, but it suits my coding style better than class-based systems 11:27:51 primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 11:27:51 ... instead of having to inherit the possible behavior prior instantiation as in a normal class based system. 11:28:30 why not just allow to edit any object (or the parent) even after instantiation? 11:28:40 add methods, fields, wathever 11:29:36 *whatever 11:29:36 For one thing, you won't be able to do polymorphism with the same certainty. 11:30:14 Add a method that dispatches on a particular class type isn't hard, even after initialisation 11:30:31 The beauty of dynamic dispatch. 11:30:47 i think there is always a compromise between how dynamic/efficient/reasonable is something 11:31:14 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-76-75.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:31:49 (reasonable as in: how easy it is to reason and make conclusions about the programs you can build with it) 11:32:02 but english is not my best thing :) 11:32:50 -!- lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:34:12 Guthur: before calling a method (with dynamic dispatch) upon a specific object, is there a way to check wheter there actually is a method specialized on that type? 11:34:59 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-187-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:13 And btw, is there an online (read: downloadable) version of the art of the metaobject protocol available? 11:35:44 no 11:36:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:36:57 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.117] has joined #lisp 11:37:08 Strav: Not sure. 11:37:17 One day lisp will be old enough all that suff will be in the public domain. 11:37:23 Strav: the spec-ish parts are online. 11:37:53 Kiczales isn't even dead yet 11:38:26 Yea one day he'll be old enough too. 11:38:48 and in at least 70 years all this stuff will be outdated 11:39:28 Xach: thanks, but as you may tell, it's not the spec-ish parts that interests me. 11:40:16 stassats, It's only out of date if there something better to replace it 11:40:56 Guthur: it's out of date if it's no longer applicable 11:42:16 Well there could be Armageddon, probably not very applicable after that... 11:42:37 stassats: and aside of mere technical specifications, the underlying concepts sometimes take really long to get outdated. I'd still be proud if I were Turing. 11:43:27 btw, what does that palindrome mean? 11:43:31 Strav: society wouldn't be proud of you 11:45:21 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:02 stassats: there's some society where "pride" is a really strong thing. But... well, if I count as society material, I really do appreciate some of turing's works (although I haven't seriously got into them yet). 11:49:00 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 11:55:19 I'm getting "* ;; swank:close-connection: end of file on..." have flushed ~/.slime 11:57:24 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:53 How do I get the second value returned by (parse-integer)? 11:58:09 caar? 11:58:29 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:31 Tanami: So is it a list? 11:58:54 I'm checking the hyperspec 11:59:10 didi: either by (second or by (multiple-value-bind 11:59:22 Inside slime it prints different that a returned list. 11:59:36 didi: check for nth-value and multiple-value-bind or multiple-value-list 11:59:52 Nice. Thank you. 12:00:07 don't check multiple-value-list 12:00:29 -!- m`` [~m@usealice.org] has quit [Quit: alice.] 12:00:32 didi: and don't listen to Strav and Tanami 12:00:42 yes 12:00:50 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has left #lisp 12:01:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:42 stassats: what's wrong with multiple-value-bind? 12:01:50 (it does the job) 12:01:52 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:02:03 Strav: nothing, SECOND is what's wrong 12:02:41 Yea. But there was an "or" in my phrase. 12:02:47 I forgot multiple-value-setq 12:03:29 lhz: I used to use that before I learned about (setf (values ...) ...) 12:03:38 Now I use setf values exclusively. 12:05:26 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 12:06:50 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:06:57 Xach: how can you set two variables from a (values) with a (setf)? 12:07:31 straightforwardly 12:07:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:54 Here: (setf (x y) (parse-integer "10")) crashes. 12:08:10 well, Xach showed you (setf (values ...) ...) 12:09:00 Strav: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_values.htm 12:09:34 also http://l1sp.org/cl/5.1.2.3 12:09:47 Xach: I'll take a look thanks. 12:11:47 Nice, I never realised that was possible either 12:13:13 madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has joined #lisp 12:13:39 Man, this language is cool. 12:13:50 and hip! 12:14:02 tragically so 12:16:00 3 lines and voilá: a horrible parser. Nice. 12:16:19 Bah, you only need one line for a horrible parser: (read) 12:16:20 jajcloz [~jaj@108.7.68.199] has joined #lisp 12:16:39 Xach: True. But I don't control the input. 12:19:23 "he who controls the input controls the output" 12:20:21 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:20:44 anybody know a searchable version of the hyperspec? 12:20:59 i am so used to just googling "whatever i need javadoc" 12:21:08 and it doesn't work with lisp 12:21:57 OliverUv: site:http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec foo? 12:22:02 thank you google, and Xach! http://www.xach.com/lisp/clhs-search/ 12:22:37 and didi! 12:22:50 Yay! I helped! 12:22:50 also lispdoc, hyperspec.el 12:23:23 OliverUv: you are using emacs, right? 12:23:41 OliverUv: l1sp.org can search for certain things (it's not a full-text search) 12:23:51 for example, http://l1sp.org/search/designator 12:24:12 i use that together with the clhs lookup you just mentioned 12:24:34 l1sp.org is really handy when you're at someone else's computer, too. 12:25:06 pardon. it was http://lispdoc.com/ 12:25:11 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:25:19 the HyperSpec and much more 12:25:20 nice 12:26:02 indeed, very useful 15 minutes 12:26:35 At this rate, I may be a programmer within a week, hehe 12:26:54 OliverUv: one neat thing, if you install w3m with emacs, slime will let you bind a doc search to the hyperspec for any expression entered in the repl or in a source file with: C-c C-d h 12:27:26 Strav: ah, I am using Limp for vim though, but thanks 12:27:29 you don't have to use w3m 12:27:47 and it's not a search 12:27:54 Indeed. It worked with firefox. Great tip. 12:28:01 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:36 yeah, hyperspec symbol lookup is available in Limp, too 12:28:38 stassats: you can choose the browser of your choice but staying in emacs is way more usefull. 12:28:41 search is what I was after 12:29:01 protip: C-c C-d # for reader macros and C-c C-d ~ for format controls 12:29:01 Is there a mechanism for searching from inside emacs? 12:29:16 there's M-x rgrep 12:29:35 didi: searching what? 12:29:57 Searching for lisp documentation. 12:30:08 hyperspec.el 12:30:16 JohnTheSavage [~jahnthesa@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:32 madrik: again, it's not a search 12:30:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:05 it's a look-up 12:31:10 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-zmghfhnvsglomsrg] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 ah, crud. nvm. 12:31:32 madrik: in no way a look-up does a search. In no case it does iterate on anything. 12:32:05 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:04 you can find dpans.texi and search with info 12:33:10 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:34:16 stassats: That would be nice. You actually used it? 12:34:37 no 12:35:38 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nxtynweqdomxxjob] has left #lisp 12:36:10 -!- JohnTheSavage [~jahnthesa@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [] 12:36:42 I'll be going. cya all. 12:36:55 -!- Strav [~user@dsl-63-57.aei.ca] has left #lisp 12:37:16 now i did use it 12:39:29 but dpans2texi lacks hyperiority of CLHS 12:39:53 hyperiority 12:41:43 Does a concept like the HyperSpec exist for any other language? 12:42:14 no, lisp is hyperior on that matter 12:42:37 my, my. aren't we hyperior today 12:43:13 -!- paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:1104:f400:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:19 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:43:24 paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:1104:f400:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has joined #lisp 12:43:35 i'll assume you have a hyperior modifier key, too 12:43:56 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:44:40 stassats: I liked (note the past tense) Javas online API doc very much. 12:45:08 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.141.47] has joined #lisp 12:47:45 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:38 ... "don't believe the hyperior" 12:50:08 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:03 ! 12:54:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-221.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:58:42 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:54 metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 13:02:10 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:31 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:33 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:51 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 13:04:28 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:06 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:54 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:59 *billitch* is writing a continuous integration server in CL 13:08:54 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:24 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:11 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:24 billitch: for a time my company was using buildbot for CI on lisp projects, it worked out OK 13:13:03 billlitch, great, I have wanted to for a long time but never got around to it 13:13:07 if you're looking for a CI solution, that's a workable option. If you want to write a better buildbot in lisp, have fun! 13:15:45 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:32 -!- WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-144-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:14 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 buildbot looks nice. for now my CL-CI only includes a git update hook talking to a webapp that builds, send reports via email and deploy code when tests pass. web interface is minimal 13:17:49 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:57 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has left #lisp 13:18:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:04 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:27 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:58 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:05 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:20:32 for now only POST hooks and display of previous reports, i don't need more for now 13:20:42 (did i mension, for now ?) 13:20:54 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:11 dym_ [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 13:21:22 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:31 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 13:21:55 -!- fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:22:09 -!- Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:46 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22:55 stassats: here? 13:23:00 yep 13:23:06 TomJ_ [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has joined #lisp 13:23:09 billitch: it would be nice if you open-source it 13:23:12 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:30 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:23:37 Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 13:23:43 -!- TomJ- [~tomj@89.240.46.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:59 stassats: Could you fix Lorenz Moesenlechner's problem with quit-lisp on sbcl? Basically just change the interrupt-thread+quit+recklessly-p t to a terminate-thread in (defimplementation quit-lisp) in swank-sbcl.lisp. I don't have any checked out tree at my hands right now 13:25:12 i plan to release it as open source, for now as a pre-release : http://github.com/billitch/cl-ci 13:25:14 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:36 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:46 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:26:09 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:26:58 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-csfnqttgecfzydzy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:26:58 billitch: nice :-) 13:27:09 tcr: ok 13:27:09 hankhero1: how would you use it ? 13:27:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:46 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rpclwncpoiqyhpvr] has joined #lisp 13:27:54 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:00 -!- blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:50 -!- Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:01 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-164.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 billitch: Probably add some darcs hook and use for our internal project 13:29:54 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:33 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:38 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:32:49 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:32:53 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:32:59 mstevens_ [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:28 doh, fuzzy-completions minor mode got stuck again, i should really track it down 13:33:41 yeah 13:33:51 that one's annoying 13:33:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:00 hankhero1: i wonder if continuous integration could include monitoring the target app 13:34:23 reporting run-time bugs as well 13:35:06 and offering the possibility to revert to previous known-to work version after n failures 13:35:48 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.141.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:49 looks like it can't be called twice simultaneously 13:35:53 billitch: I have some code that uses a shell to launch sbcl, loads a system, then detects if it caught in the debugger 13:36:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:23 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:35 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 13:36:57 WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-144-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-221.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-147-29.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-221.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:38:31 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 13:38:50 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:41:16 hankhero1: nice, would you open-source it ? 13:42:42 billitch: also the shell wrapper I made can run with ssh, so you can start builds on another computer, monitor the progress (active, died, stdout, stderr). Sure I'll open source it, but I haven't put it on a public server yet. I could actually do that now... 13:44:27 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:39 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 13:46:47 -!- blitz_` is now known as blitz_ 13:48:46 hankhero1: that would be great, hooks are POST so they can be sent from remote, or github as well 13:49:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:50:27 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 damn, mcclim crashed my X server again 13:51:57 fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:39 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:54 billitch: darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw-extras/cl-non-trivial-shell/ and I have some more sample code, i'll see if it is something worth posting 13:59:58 asarch [~asarch@187.132.86.225] has joined #lisp 14:00:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:31 Guthur_ [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 tobik [~tobik@p54897213.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:13 -!- WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-144-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:33 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:05 WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-144-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:07:19 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:07:53 HOL4 looks relevant to SICL 14:08:58 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:07 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 14:11:54 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:12:21 Is there some package to easily play audio from files or data? I've been trying to understand how to use libaudiostream with cffi, but I'm not so familiar with C. 14:12:37 billitch: I uploaded some more code, which is incomplete and pretty much shit, but there is an example of how to see if sbcl is in the debugger, http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw-extras/dobot/src/run-sbcl.lisp 14:12:52 peterhil: there's cl-fmod 14:12:56 peterhil: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/software/mixalot/mixalot.html might help 14:12:59 minion: cl-fmod 14:13:00 cl-fmod: CL-FMOD is a set of UFFI bindings to FMOD. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fmod 14:13:16 Thanks! 14:13:36 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:13:42 peterhil: I don't remember if I had to tweak it a bit to get it working on sbcl 14:13:54 Does either work on PPC Mac? 14:14:10 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest87585 14:14:17 hankhero1: ok i'll take a look 14:14:21 Or with Clozure CL? 14:14:35 http://cl-fmod.sourceforge.net/ <- look at "Should work on but untested (patches gladly accepted):" 14:15:22 Ok, good! 14:17:36 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:16 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 14:25:23 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:35 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:25:52 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:26:01 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:31 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:12 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:27:14 When reading the cffi tutorial, I noticed there might be problems with many bindings specifying ".so 14:27:35 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:44 ".so" libraries. I had to add a line for OS X ".dylib"s 14:27:51 -!- Guest87585 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:29:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn198.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:31:30 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 14:31:46 The cffi-grovel seems interesting, but where can I get it? 14:32:09 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 from cffi 14:32:27 chances are you already have it 14:32:42 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:20 And the cl-fmod binds against fmod version 3.73, when the oldest one available for download is 4.12.29 14:33:50 is that a problem? 14:35:15 I don't know yet, have to try... 14:41:28 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:48 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:26 Hefner has also some code, where he uses for example SoX to play sounds. I guess I'll try that first to get something fun done for a while... I spent the last three days trying to install cffi with clbuild, which requires darcs, which requires all the haskell stuff, which do not work so well with Macports (I learned that the hard way...) :-/ 14:43:48 Common Lisp would benefit from a good *and easy to use* packaging system. 14:44:42 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-28.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:29 and there's work done towards that 14:45:50 What is the project called? 14:46:27 there's clbuild, quicklisp 14:46:32 minion: clbuild 14:46:32 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 14:46:36 minion: quicklisp 14:46:36 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``quicklisp''. 14:46:46 nah, quicklisp is still invite-only 14:46:48 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:59 sigh, looks like nobody has ever used text-field-pane in mcclim, it's broken in several places 14:47:18 -!- primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:49:02 For Ruby there is rubygems, which I think is superb. And for Python there is pip, which is quite good also, but feels a bit more unpolished. 14:49:13 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:49:36 p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 Although pip is more advanced wrt to versions and dependencies I guess. 14:50:39 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-vbfjfrhevqumxiqe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:51 p_l: I just installed clbuild and when I finally got it installed it seemed like a step to the right direction from asdf 14:51:21 from asdf-install 14:51:27 *Xach* shudders 14:51:30 Neither rubygems nor what they have in Python works. 14:51:46 Works-for-me... :-) 14:52:19 It never works, there are always some packages that don't match versions, or you get some backtrace dump, or whatever. 14:52:24 Ok, maybe they could be more robust with dependencies etc. but at least thy are easily usable 14:52:38 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:18 *Xach* hopes to have a workable quicklisp demo ready for the boston meeting on monday 14:53:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:59 And I admit, I spent quite a lot of time trying to install ruby-audio with gems. I finally got it installed by manually compiling it and fixing all the so/dylib related problems and something else with creative symlinking... 14:54:23 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:28 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.213.122] has joined #lisp 14:55:02 And I actually had to compile the external libraries separately to get ruby setup to find and use them. 14:55:09 So gems didn't help there... 14:59:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftxrzoybxabchvso] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.203] has joined #lisp 15:01:46 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 15:02:37 I don't understand why don't any packaging system separate the packages you speficy to install from the ones installed by being dependencies. That way it would be much easier to managa a large collection of installed packages. 15:03:01 portage (gentoo) does it. 15:05:00 Yes, that's true - portage is in a class of it's own, but is also has some problems. The use-flags are handy when you know what are the options, but the options could be represented and selected with some tool. 15:05:45 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:39 Also would it be possible to introoduce kind of "name spaces" or "shadowing" for packages requireing conflicting versions of some other package. 15:07:01 primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 15:07:21 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:07:57 pjb: gem-style interface + gemcutter like service + maven like independent dependencies ... that would rock 15:08:15 though cabal works quite well 15:08:32 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 I couldn't compile it, or haskell, on cygwin... 15:08:48 At least, clisp and asdf compile nicely on cygwin. 15:08:52 pjb: I never tried to use cygwin for it 15:08:54 And to purge dependant packages which are unneeded by specified installed packages would be handy too 15:09:18 peterhil: well, there's always NixOS immutable packages... :D 15:10:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:11:46 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 15:12:02 That whole NixOS system seems cool! 15:14:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftxrzoybxabchvso] has left #lisp 15:19:53 libao, which is used by SoX seems to have small enough API to be easy to wrap with cffi 15:20:04 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d3f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 It also has very wide platform support 15:20:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-147-29.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:20:46 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 It also support surround sound formats 15:23:51 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 15:24:06 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:25:35 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 15:26:23 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:38 And the API also has clean separation of concerns (devices/drivers, file/live output). I think I will wrap this one, when I manage to get a hold on using cffi! 15:27:15 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 15:28:25 Sorry, I got excited... :-) 15:29:39 peterhil: http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Tutorial.html is a good way to hold CFFI 15:30:30 stassats: Yes, I started to read it last night, after I got cffi installed. 15:30:33 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-76-75.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:03 and you need to know something about C as well 15:31:14 p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:29 I know a little - I can read it but not write. 15:31:51 and i can write, but not read 15:32:01 :-) 15:32:35 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:36:14 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:53 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:40:54 zard1989` [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:41:35 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:39 -!- zard1989` [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:32 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:43:10 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 zard1989` [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:43:36 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:36 -!- zard1989` [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:45:16 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 G'morning all. 15:46:45 hi nyef 15:47:19 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 So, I'm looking at the recent comment on bug 551227, and see the suggestion that the SOME compiler-macro might be at fault. 15:50:35 But further digging shows that the MAP deftransform introduces a lambda which has, as one of its parameter names, NIL, which doesn't quite seem legal. 15:50:59 (Per clhs 3.4.1, parameters are not permitted to be constant variables, but NIL is a constant variable.) 15:55:28 shortsightedsid [7aac1208@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.172.18.8] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:58:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 ... What's the point of the fake control stack frames introduced by fake_foreign_function_call, beyond cluing the debugger in for backtraces? 15:59:10 Or is there no such point? 15:59:43 * frames. */ 16:00:07 "Stores the context for gc to scavange and builds fake stack frames" 16:00:16 ericklc [~ikki@189.247.17.227] has joined #lisp 16:00:20 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:26 Right, it stores the context, that's fine, but what's the point of the frames? 16:00:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@109.144.214.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:49 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 16:02:19 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:22 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:00 Is it just so that the debugger has an easier time of figuring out that there's an interrupt context associated with the frame? 16:03:28 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #lisp 16:03:52 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:52 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:05:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:53 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.165.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:14 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:42 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 16:11:01 X-Scale [email@89.180.165.249] has joined #lisp 16:12:18 -!- benny [~user@i577A1889.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:22 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-136.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 16:12:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-37-208.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:14:13 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 Patero-ng [~hp@174-23-46-96.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:22 hello users 16:14:31 i have an issue with quake3 and mouse laggage 16:14:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:47 also map referencing corruption invalidness 16:14:56 depending on woot engine i use 16:15:03 Patero-ng: wrong channel 16:15:28 den woots dis channel 4 16:15:44 Programming in Common Lisp? 16:15:56 Which seems to have very little in common with quake3. 16:16:06 how come 16:16:08 well, for one, conversation in this channel should be in _English_ 16:16:16 am speaking english 16:16:19 am i? 16:16:24 aren't we 16:16:25 Not well, clearly. 16:16:52 *sykopomp* smells troll and goes about his business. 16:17:10 i have issues with video games 16:17:17 do u know anything about it 16:17:26 Patero-ng: This is not a good place to talk about that. 16:17:37 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:42 there so many cheat injections sometimes the devs themselves packed it with on the retail cd 16:18:15 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:15 Patero-ng: If that's what you'd like to talk about, please go somewhere else. 16:18:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:21:41 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:22:05 do people here think the "PC era" is over the way Steve Jobs talks about it being over? 16:22:21 steve jones is a whax 16:22:22 dto: that seems hardly more relevant than quake mouse lag. 16:22:29 is not 16:22:34 -!- tobik [~tobik@p54897213.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:45 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:23:03 dto: Hey, are YOU going to the boston lisp meeting? 16:23:14 nerds? 16:23:32 Patero-ng: go away. 16:23:42 jaja sorry 16:23:45 i'm writing an article on apple policies as they relate to my remix contest. in that 1. it couldn't have been done on iphone because the remixing requires shipping the compiler, which is verboten and 2. GPL problems on iphone 3. etc 16:23:55 Xach: when is it? what's the topic? 16:24:28 dto: monday, the 26th. slava pestov is talking about factor. i am not especially interested in factor but i'd like to meet up with the nerds of the region again. 16:24:42 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-zmghfhnvsglomsrg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:18 hey cool. 16:25:28 perhaps. it's only an hour away 16:25:35 *Xach* is taking the train down 16:28:16 Xach: How long is the train ride, and when does your return train depart? 16:29:30 nyef: train ride is about 150 minutes, return train leaves boston at 11:20 16:29:48 *Xach* isn't fond of that schedule, but the convenience is generally worth it 16:30:32 Okay, so it's not like going from boston to chicago, which departs at noon and arrives at something like nine am. 16:30:45 not like that at all. 16:31:24 ugh, overnight train? 16:31:36 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:32:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:49 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-81-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:35:36 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.203] has joined #lisp 16:36:07 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-12-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:53 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:02 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:41:50 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 16:43:48 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:44:15 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 16:48:47 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:16 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:51:51 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:54:46 -!- shortsightedsid [7aac1208@gateway/web/freenode/ip.122.172.18.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:54 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:11 jikanter [~jordan@ip-216-36-100-57.chi.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:17 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:00:51 Good evening everyone! 17:01:05 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-28.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:15 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:21 Hello beach. 17:02:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.200] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has joined #lisp 17:08:12 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-37-208.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:03 xan_ [~xan@xdsl-87-78-130-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-162.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:12:39 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 Hmm, an exciting new parenscript bug, it seems ... 17:16:33 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 yesudeep [~user@unaffiliated/yesudeep] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 -!- yesudeep [~user@unaffiliated/yesudeep] has left #lisp 17:18:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-162.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:19:25 timor [~timor@port-92-195-237-126.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:46 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 Zhivago, tell me bout it 17:25:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:25:27 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:27:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:28:51 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:17 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:29:27 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:29:44 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:30:04 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:42 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:22 shiplu [~chatzilla@180.149.8.63] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.86.213.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:27 -!- chiiph_ [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 17:36:46 chiiph [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has joined #lisp 17:36:46 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has quit [Changing host] 17:36:46 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #lisp 17:37:36 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 17:38:40 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:39:05 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:06 -!- shiplu is now known as e66 17:39:12 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.200.83] has joined #lisp 17:39:53 is there any open source LispWorks Compatible compiler ? 17:39:54 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:39:56 asdf doesn't really like having the filesystem change underneath it. 17:40:04 I am completely new in LISP. 17:40:22 e66: LispWorks and other systems implement the same standardized language. LispWorks extensions are not always implemented elsewhere. 17:40:28 e66: Most implementations implement the standard. 17:40:48 e66: http://www.cliki.net/lw-compat has a few functions from lispworks made available on other systems. 17:40:58 Most implementations implement the standard... to one degree or another. 17:41:14 (Or, perhaps, to varying degrees of pedantry.) 17:41:18 Xach: Thanks. 17:41:47 so any lisp compiler in windows? 17:41:52 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:41:57 e66: there are several. 17:41:59 open source. obviously. 17:42:08 ClozureCL springs to mind. 17:42:17 sbcl also. 17:42:31 SBCL runs on windows. I didnt know. 17:42:33 e66: ClozureCL, SBCL, clisp, and ecl are all common lisp compilers that work on windows. 17:42:36 SBCL springs to mind, but so do recent complaints of nonworkingness. 17:42:49 Also our company is moving to CLozure. I I though its commercial 17:43:29 e66: Now you know better. 17:43:36 They provide commercial services, but the product itself is open source. 17:43:59 It is commercial. It's also open source and free. 17:44:17 Xach: Yeah, within 5 min I added 5-6 compilers name to my memory. 17:44:22 e66: can I ask what company this is, and what you use lisp for? 17:45:13 sykopomp: We dont use lisp actually. But the product we are working on is written in lisp. Its almost 25 years old 17:45:29 And it uses LispWorks? 17:45:33 But we dont want to change the code base 17:45:42 Okay, known 25-year-old lisp systems? 17:45:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:01 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:46:08 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 hello everyone. How do I print without quotes in common lisp? 17:46:25 nyef: VAX Lisp 17:46:30 Lis? 17:46:35 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:44 beach: Multics emacs? 17:46:48 beach: We used SBCL. I dont know what was used actually to built it 17:46:53 Lis: You don't normally have to do anything special. What are you trying that makes you think you do? 17:46:55 I wasn't there 25 years ago 17:46:56 nyef: Multics MacLisp 17:46:57 Well if I do (print "Bla") it does output "Bla" 17:47:04 Lis: A string? (format t "~a" string) 17:47:08 Lis: You could use something other than PRINT. 17:47:21 Lis: the ~A directive will do that. So will PRINC. 17:47:23 Ok, I searched google but found nothing... 17:47:35 Lis: Try the Common Lisp Hyperspec. 17:47:40 the ~A directive to format, I mean. 17:47:49 so (print "Bla") will do: Bla 17:47:51 Any Good IDE suggestion beside emacs? 17:47:55 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-068-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:01 ah (princ "Bla") will do : Bla 17:48:04 e66: Emacs! 17:48:06 e66: Why do you want to exclude Emacs? 17:48:24 beach: The key bindings. they are really tough 17:48:25 e66: Not really. Emacs is a pretty fantastic environment, and there's nothing that quite provides what SLIME does. 17:48:31 Lis: I've never had good luck phrasing Lisp questions in a way that helps google find me the answer. 17:48:33 Visual Studio Professional *hides* 17:48:33 e66: See it as an investment. 17:48:58 e66: keep the menus open, and enable C-x/c/v, and use the arrow keys for movement. 17:49:09 beah: yes, thats why i installed it and learnt 2,3 commands 17:49:19 that way, it'll feel like a lame idea :) 17:49:29 heh! 17:49:29 e66: you can also just change the bindings for common operations. 17:50:03 I am very good at VI. But I was looking for something GUI IDE, 17:50:52 like netbeans, kdevelop, visual studio, eclipse 17:50:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.200] has joined #lisp 17:51:01 e66: Sorry to hear that. 17:51:10 i use visual studio... for everything... 17:51:14 e66: oh, I thought your problem was that emacs is hard :) 17:51:19 e66: M-x viper-mode 17:51:40 that'll give you vi-like bindings, including the whole modal editing thing. 17:52:12 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:37 Lis: my condolences. 17:53:16 sykopomp: what is this M-x viper-mode. is it a plugin? 17:53:30 Visual Studio has CL support?! 17:53:34 ya 17:53:45 you have to include it yourselve but its pretty easy 17:53:48 rsynnott: are you sure? 17:53:57 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-65-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:54:12 I just found CUSP for eclipse 17:54:17 e66: it's a mode for emacs. It's included with the standard distribution. 17:54:22 it understands all gnu parser generator and lexer tools... so you basicly just generate a keywordlist with flex and let vs do the rest... 17:54:29 e66: no. Lis just said it did, though 17:54:32 there's cusp for eclipse, but I've never used it. 17:54:42 e66: viper-mode turns emacs into a host for a vi-like editor. You can also continue using emacs bindings within it. 17:55:02 ah, so not full integration a la slime, then 17:55:03 josemanuel [~josemanue@65.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:55:09 http://www.bitfauna.com/projects/cusp/cusp.htm 17:55:10 sykopomp, I think he wants buttons, for what ever reason 17:55:24 then you add a bunch of class wizards for your lisp distribution and are ready to go... it can interface with std in+out or whatever... its MSVC... :D 17:55:26 I played with cusp once 17:55:29 it, well, worked 17:55:30 Guthur: Why would anyone want that? 17:55:37 mostly :) 17:55:53 beach, Not really sure, pretty pictures maybe? 17:56:19 at this point I don't use a mouse for anything. 17:56:28 me neither 17:56:30 even my window management obeys emacs command keys. 17:56:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:56:45 Guthur: Could be, yeah. It always surprises me what people are willing to give up in terms of productivity in order to stare at pretty pictures. 17:56:54 Guthur: I am looking for Debugging environment actually. and Profiling environment is must. 17:57:18 slime, and SBCL has a decent enough profiler 17:57:21 + i just hit ctrl+shift+r to record a marco wich can be modified... without mouse... 17:57:24 e66: perhaps you want something like lispworks or allegro. 17:57:24 Fade: are you using stumpwm ? 17:57:25 Probably other solutions as well 17:57:30 galdor: aye 17:57:38 nice 17:57:39 Guthur: Too bad about the SBCL debugging disaster, then, huh? 17:58:00 Guthur: default emacs is configured with the menu, actually. 17:58:51 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:05 Okay, I got a lot of idea. I am downloading the compiler. (dont know why the speed is too low). 17:59:37 And about editor I am quite confused. 18:00:12 nyef: Is it getting fixed? 18:00:13 e66: can you be more clear about what's missing in emacs? 18:00:28 Guthur: It's on my list to fix possibly at some point in 2011. 18:00:28 as in, what you expect from emacs that you don't know it provides. 18:00:35 sykopomp: it doesn't fit e66 preconceptions 18:00:48 stassats: that part is obvious enough. 18:00:54 sykopomp: I really dont know whats missing in emacs and I am telling emacs is bad. 18:00:57 But certainly not while the system-of-record is CVS. 18:01:13 sykopomp: The thing is I am not habitat to emacs. 18:01:29 e66: that's curable 18:01:34 ^ 18:01:50 e66: People are not born as users of a particular editor. That is known as learned behavior. 18:02:10 you're not familiar with lisp either, but that doesn't seem to stop you 18:02:20 beach: Yeah, I completely agree with you. 18:02:35 who was it that had a fiveam fork on github ? 18:02:46 (People are not born as users of a particular editor, but they can become "born again" users of a particular editor...) 18:03:00 e66: Just bite the bullet and learn Emacs. It's a good investment. The younger you are the more it will pay off in the long run. 18:03:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.200.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:03:53 fe[nl]ix: Adlai? 18:04:18 beach: dont worry! I'll do it. I tried vi for long. now I am good at it. So for emacs I can do that too. In fact I am learning. 18:04:31 hrmn... has there been any action on moving sbcl off of cvs? 18:04:34 oh, is there any emacs available in windows. 18:04:47 yes 18:04:51 Fade: there were some 18:04:53 http://github.com/adlai/Eos 18:04:57 Thanks Fade 18:04:59 sykopomp: oh, right. found it 18:05:00 e66 tons of... even a opensource 100kb version :D 18:05:21 Lis: please, don't confuse e66 18:05:33 any news of Adlai ? 18:05:56 what was so confusing by telling that?!? 18:06:00 fe[nl]ix: he dropped by this weekend. He probably won't be around regularly again for years. 18:06:12 nevermind... i get back to work 18:06:31 sykopomp: how come ? 18:06:35 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:37 Lis: because it's not suited to Common Lisp development using Slime 18:07:10 fe[nl]ix: Conscription. He's in Israel. 18:07:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:07:41 I see 18:08:02 *Xach* gets evil ideas about using *macroexpand-hook* to show a progress bar for compilation 18:08:16 I don't think he'll be active at all for another 2-3 years :\ 18:08:19 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:34 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.116.215] has joined #lisp 18:08:53 when he returns, he'll hardly recognize the cl landscape 18:08:58 okay. Lets go Emacs with VI key binding 18:09:14 yeah :\ 18:10:20 Guthur: And what is slime? is it a plugin or compiler? if it has nice profiling ability I should be using it. 18:10:49 e66: SLIME is a development environment for lisp. 18:11:25 sykopomp: Not Ide? 18:11:27 e66 it's like a debugger remote access protocoll... 18:11:35 e66: it provides a really nice system for interactive development. 18:12:01 which _includes_ hooking up to the debugger, passing lisp expressions to evaluate (and compile), and inspecting the running lisp image. 18:12:07 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 Lis: it's more of an advanced IDE than just a remote access protocol with debugging... 18:12:35 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 18:12:39 that why I written LIKE in the sentence :D 18:12:48 remote access protocol is just an implementation detail 18:12:50 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.116.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:01 tell me about an apple... 18:13:15 well an apple it a round fruit... 18:13:25 yaya and apple is not just round... 18:13:34 what's that? 18:13:50 sounds like someone needs to consume more apple seeds. 18:14:03 heh 18:14:05 minion: please tell e66 about slime 18:14:05 e66: direct your attention towards slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 18:15:27 e66: SLIME is likely the biggest reason why Lisp is so often used with emacs :) 18:16:49 sykopomp: You think so? I just think the two came from the same culture in the past. 18:17:36 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.169.251] has joined #lisp 18:17:41 well, slime's predecessors, as well, probably 18:18:12 ilisp 18:18:25 beach: I think it's the main reason why people are 'forced' to use emacs these days, when coding lisp. 18:18:50 since there doesn't seem to be an alternative environment that provides similar features. 18:18:51 inferior lisp mode, hence "superior" 18:19:21 and sure, it's probably for historical reasons that it ended up that way, but it's still an obstacle for people who would just rather use their own environments. 18:19:49 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:19:51 well, there's a swank client thingy for eclipse 18:19:53 (cusp) 18:20:03 Last I heard, it was no longer maintained or supported. 18:20:31 and I've heard some people say Limp is usable, and others say that it's nowhere near 18:20:34 the other advantage of slime is that it's maintained 18:21:07 I'd prefer a program to be bug-free than 'maintained'... 18:21:20 pjb: yeah, but that's impossible 18:22:12 maintaining means not only fixing bugs, but introducing new features and new bugs 18:22:38 I gather that limp is usable if you really, really, REALLY love vim 18:23:09 or really hate emacs 18:23:32 can't it be both? 18:24:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:26:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-33-201.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:28:29 astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-42.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:29:23 ... Lovely. PC=LR=LIP=(LRA-3) on entry. PC=LR=LIP=unchanged, LRA=different on exit. 18:29:53 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-42.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 18:30:23 I'd prefer a program with predictable snapshots than a 'maintained' program... 18:30:40 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:30:43 astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-42.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:31:19 princ does not print to stdout? 18:31:32 clhs princ 18:31:45 curses. Where's specbot? :( 18:31:58 Oh. Bloody signed vs. unsigned comparisons, mod32 arithmetic, and STUPID BUGS IN THE ORIGINAL CODE. 18:32:11 daniel [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:24 On the upside, I think I finally, really, truly, have this bug's number. 18:32:24 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:33 if I ommit the stream where does princ write to? 18:33:53 Probably *standard-output*. 18:33:55 clhs princ 18:34:02 ... Damnit, specbot! 18:34:18 Lis: the default is standard output. 18:34:26 daniel [~daniel@p5082F013.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 but that won't be the case if you've rebound *standard-output* somewhere. 18:35:34 ya I did rebound *standart-output* but print works while princ does not 18:35:37 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 I'm confused now 18:35:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:50 clhs princ 18:35:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 18:36:12 Lis: you're doing something wrong, then. 18:36:30 consider pasting some code for both examples. 18:36:44 http://paste.lisp.org 18:37:08 madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 Once you paste, if it's not announced in the channel, say "minion: paste xxxxxx?", substituting the paste number for xxxxxx. 18:37:43 dr_maligno [~dr_malign@89.129.213.77] has joined #lisp 18:37:54 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:11 is lisppaste hushed or it doesn't announce pastes anymore? 18:38:24 It's devoiced. 18:38:29 well, it's not even there 18:38:34 after that fun adventure... 18:38:40 or here 18:38:45 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:09 and can't somebody undevoice it? 18:40:26 ... Hrm. 18:40:48 Damn. The bot connection looks to be gone as well. 18:41:18 -!- e66 [~chatzilla@180.149.8.63] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 18:41:23 minion: Tell rtoym about paste 112682, please. 18:41:24 rtoym: look at Paste number 112682: "for rtoym: Bug fix for interior-pointer changes" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/112682 18:41:45 -!- pix4 [~pixel@p4FC56818.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:43:04 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:28 nyef: Congrats! You've been at it a while. :) 18:43:44 Okay, that should fix the blank output for new pastes thing. 18:44:02 redline6561: Yeah, I have. I've also been at the point of believing that I had it nailed multiple times. 18:44:31 So I'm withholding judgement and excitement until -after- it passes the test suite. 18:44:37 nyef: Good luck! 18:45:30 nyef: whatever happened with that squirl bug, btw? Did you figure out the implications of the change? 18:45:49 sykopomp: Ahh... No, I was rather distracted by some GC problems... 18:46:07 ah okay. No problem. :) 18:46:24 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:07 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:52:00 Okay, it actually completed a round of threads.impure.lisp, so that's good. :-D 18:52:25 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:51 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:58 nyef: Thanks for the fix. 18:55:45 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:57 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.186.165] has left #lisp 18:56:28 minion: Where are you? 18:56:29 why do you want to know? 18:57:57 rtoym: Hopefully it works. 18:58:07 Since it's been there from day one. :-/ 18:59:51 minion: rtoym wants to help you. 18:59:52 well i wouldn't want to help me 19:01:26 Lycurgus: Clearly, minion is an ungrateful wretch, and shouldn't be dealt with lightly. 19:04:33 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:47 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 19:05:50 GNA! 19:05:52 "§$%&/() 19:06:25 (terpri) solved all of my problems 19:06:43 clhs finish-output 19:06:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 19:06:44 Lis: Or (finish-output)? 19:06:51 sykopomp wins. 19:06:55 nyef: ^5 19:07:57 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:39 *Xach* fails at his macroexpand-hook trick 19:10:44 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:10:47 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:10 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.86.225] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:11:24 hm interresting finish-output does not work. 19:11:38 Does someone know what char finish-output concatednates to the end? 19:11:44 0? 19:11:44 then you're using it wrong 19:12:04 Lis: what makes you think it outputs any characters at all? 19:12:22 magic... 19:19:16 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:43 grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has joined #lisp 19:21:09 finish-output is like fflush(3). It doesn't output anything, it causes buffered output to be completed. 19:21:34 Now, if you're using something with line-buffering to -read- that output, then that's a whole other matter. 19:23:33 *drewc* comments on scrollback: 19:23:54 yes. I only flush the buffer if I catch a \n or \r I think you know what I'm on right now. If not here is the link https://sourceforge.net/projects/mod-ecl/ 19:24:00 i think the problem with emacs is that people think it's an editor, and since they already use an editor, they don't need emacs. 19:24:58 drewc: they also expect more familiar environments. 19:25:04 not just the editor. 19:25:21 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:37 well, that's nonsensical in itself... if they expected familiarity, why are they learning a new , foreign, language? 19:25:55 i wouldn't expect to use a perl debugger with C... 19:26:12 maybe they're forced to use lisp 19:26:19 It so happens that you can learn many of today's languages without having to switch editors or full environments. 19:26:25 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 19:26:42 stassats: true. 19:27:24 with the exception of Java, it's pretty easy to use a new language without needing a full environment. PHP, Ruby, Perl, C, C++, Python... 19:27:25 sykopomp: the same is true for lisp... it's just that many of the advantages of lisp are in its editors and environments. 19:27:42 nyef the funny part is, everything works so far. I can use lisp with apache like I can use it with shell access... awesome :D 19:27:47 sykopomp: easy to learn. _hard_ to use. 19:27:58 sykopomp: if php were easy to use, i'd still be using it. 19:28:18 you will love mod-ecl :D 19:28:21 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:28:27 drewc: I don't disagree, but I'm not talking about the quality of those languages. 19:28:49 or the quality of their environments? 19:29:08 drewc: regardless of your opinion of PHP, you can get a fairly usable environment with just vim+your filesystem. That includes browsing to definitions of functions, proper indentation, and syntax highlighting. 19:29:10 Lis: who needs mod-ecl when there is hunchentoot 19:29:18 Lis: no, not my thing at all. I don't like apache. 19:29:21 that's more than enough of an environment to get work done. 19:29:31 I do. Thats why I created it 19:29:36 with CL, you can't even get proper indentation without a lisp-aware editor. 19:29:49 unless you manually hammer out the spaces and tabs, I guess! :) 19:30:01 right.. the same way one does in other langauges. 19:30:24 lisp is much less usable without a lisp environment than other languages are without language-specific environments. 19:30:46 clisp users possibly being the exception here. 19:30:53 ferada [~user@g224148184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 join #r 19:31:12 mhm, hi 19:31:22 sykopomp: so it's not 'lisp', but SBCL that's hard to use without emacs? 19:31:30 ferada: it happens :) 19:31:32 sykopomp: C#/java are very painful without visual studio / eclipse 19:31:34 ferada r sucks 19:31:40 sorry to say that 19:31:48 ryepup: I agree. That's why I didn't mention them (and I did point out that Java is an exception) 19:31:56 drewc: it's not just SBCL. 19:31:57 Lis: yeah i know :) still got to work with it 19:31:58 The fact is that writing a lisp aware editor is trivial, compared to any other language. 19:32:10 drewc: clisp is the only lisp I know that provides a significant command-line environment. 19:32:15 pjb: Does that include FORTH? 19:32:26 i don't find Slime trivial... 19:32:29 Well forth is more like assembler... 19:32:30 ferada ya. I heard most of the universitys use it for data analysis... but thats the only thing it's really usefull for though 19:32:37 universities 19:32:49 Lis: Don't knock specialized tools for data analysis. 19:32:50 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.73.16.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:55 Of course, you can always add features. slime is mostly overkill. 19:32:56 Lis: you can move your discussion to #r 19:32:57 drewc: so that means SBCL, CCL, ECL, ABCL.... 19:33:06 *hides 19:33:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.17.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:24 sykopomp: CCL not on Mac 19:33:33 Lis: exactly. but it happens that i use lisp idioms, so it kinda works for me 19:33:40 stassats: you still can't pick and choose your editor. 19:33:46 sykopomp: So, that point is what though? that we need better command line lisp environments? 19:34:04 sykopomp: you can, but the choice is limited 19:34:06 there is ecl... wich is totally awesome... 19:34:13 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:34:26 it can be used for everything... even make hawkings wheelchair understand lisp 19:34:41 -!- dr_maligno [~dr_malign@89.129.213.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:43 drewc: no, the point is that there's really no alternative right now to SLIME, and that this is a significant barrier of entry for users. 19:35:15 there is also a vim script which acts like a basic form of slime 19:35:30 again, Limp seems unmaintained and/or incomplete. 19:35:57 Oddly enough, SLIME didn't exist when I started using lisp. 19:35:58 and there's also an eclipse plugin 19:36:13 nyef: you probably had ilisp + emacs? :) 19:36:21 how is slimv ? 19:36:28 sykopomp: Not even ilisp. 19:36:35 sykopomp: is there a language that you have in mind that doesn't have IDE/installer barriers, or easier ones? 19:36:44 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 19:36:45 ryepup: please scroll back. 19:36:52 seems alive too. 19:36:58 Hunh. "Your system had a kernel failure". At least the power button managed to bring it partway back... 19:37:14 ... but not very far back. :-/ 19:37:20 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:54 sykopomp: my point is it's the toolset as much as the language that makes lisp an appealing work environment. We should be pushing SLIME as a debugger/inspector/repl even to people that want to edit via whatever editor they happen to use. 19:38:01 Neat. Every time I hit the power button, the computer does just a little bit more. 19:38:16 Must have overloaded something in the kernel. 19:38:41 drewc: I see that. I don't disagree. 19:40:46 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:08 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:27 nyef: You have a stepping debugger now 19:41:33 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:36 is this part of your fix for SBCL, hehe 19:41:46 drewc: really quick question about rucksack, by the way... 19:42:11 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:42:19 drewc: does rucksack keep the CLOS objects themselves in-memory even when they're no longer used? 19:43:07 Well, to be more specific, I'm trying to figure out if rucksack would be good for fairly large databases. 19:43:16 hundreds of thousands of objects full of big, heavy strings. 19:43:53 sykopomp: no. There's a cache at the transaction level, but after that the GC takes care of it. 19:43:59 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:44:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:38 drewc: thanks :) 19:45:48 Guthur: Umm... No. In fact, I'm going to kill the test case that caused the problem. 19:46:12 performance is reasonable, but i wouldn't call it super fast. 19:47:05 heh. No updates on manardb for about a year, either. 19:47:27 drewc: I think I might be able to get away with 'reasonable'. 19:49:29 *ehu* wonders why his window is highlighted 19:51:17 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:21 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:53:38 Guest1718 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:50 lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 19:56:27 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:57:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:26 sykopomp: we have some work planned in that area sometime before it becomes a problem for us, which is sometime after launch. 20:00:12 -!- lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:12 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:12 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:12 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:12 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:13 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-94.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:13 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:13 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:13 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:00:40 drewc: I'm glad rucksack is getting love! Are you planning on publishing those performance changes? 20:00:47 though actually, performance is not my primary concern, concurrency is. 20:01:02 drewc: Can I interest you in a memory-barrier construct? 20:02:06 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d3f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:02:09 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:18 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 nyef: you certainly can 20:02:38 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:41 Very well. There should be one in SBCL 1.0.42. 20:03:27 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-94.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:09 -!- Guest1718 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:06:16 OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:32 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:10 or sbcl 1.0.41 if we don't release this month 20:10:10 Krystof, memo from tcr: Re fasl loading; I'm wondering if we could benefit from an emacsy autoloading mechanism. The long loading times are mostly annoying when using scripts, and in scripts much of the loaded code won't ever be executed, so JIT loading may be an idea to pursue? 20:10:45 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 20:10:46 You're actually considering cancelling a release? 20:10:59 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:11:00 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:45 Has that ever happened before? 20:11:45 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:46 phadthai_ [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:48 nyef: not so much cancelling as forgetting, but yes, I think so 20:11:55 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 20:11:55 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-28.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:12:06 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0084.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:12:06 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0084.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 20:12:06 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 20:12:46 Mikey [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:14 -!- Mikey is now known as Guest94198 20:13:21 Wow. Okay, I guess. 20:13:22 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@65.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:13:26 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:40 .6 -would- be a new low. 20:13:55 it's a tradeoff. If people commit to merging some useful stuff in the 10 or so extra days of openness, I commit to not taking time out of my weekends 20:13:56 -!- Guest94198 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:13:58 see, tradeoff 20:14:18 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 I've got -some- stuff that could be merged, but most of what I've got only started pretending to be stable this afternoon... and affects maybe four people that I know of. 20:15:24 ZabaQ [~john.conn@host81-155-55-164.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:27 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 alternatively, really short freeze (shortly after I fix the bug I introduced) plus slightly longer 1.0.42 window 20:15:57 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:16:03 kind of interested in what my co-release-managers think, too :-/ 20:17:02 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-237-126.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:13 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:20 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:22 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:25 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:20:38 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:03 *nyef* wonders why he's getting a failed aver (sap= current end) when running ROOM... 20:21:19 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:21 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:21:44 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:46 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:22:11 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:03 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:04 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:23:20 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:34 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:24:57 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:00 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:25:08 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-068-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:50 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:53 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:26:21 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 20:27:05 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:32 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:56 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:29:36 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-137.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33:08 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 20:35:05 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has left #lisp 20:41:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:56 Ugh. reg_ALLOC actually has meaning beyond PA-bits. :-/ 20:47:35 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:36 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:51 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:48 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.130.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:12 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:54:00 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:48 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:46 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 20:57:01 dreampilot [~dreampilo@c-174-51-235-87.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:03 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:35 hoy 20:57:53 Hello. 20:57:57 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:25 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 21:00:05 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:48 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:15 i've been having issues with slime not showing docs on the bottom tagline and tab-completing function names, did something change in a recent version? 21:02:55 nothing changed 21:03:52 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:08:13 yeah, slime-space isn't working 21:08:16 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-545.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:09:10 you must have broken it 21:09:37 -!- jikanter [~jordan@ip-216-36-100-57.chi.megapath.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:48 :) 21:10:02 well i may well have, because i recently updated against cvs. 21:10:29 unless you haven't been updating for 3 years, it should work fine 21:10:49 if restarting emacs doesn't help, consider pasting your slime config 21:12:36 asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.114] has joined #lisp 21:15:07 I need a lisp interactive enviornment for the mac? any suggestions? 21:15:23 dreampilot: Slime, Clozure CL IDE 21:16:17 thanks stassats 21:19:57 urg, restarting emacs is a production, i've got like 40+ buffers open in demon mode with 20 frames :P 21:21:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:40 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 21:24:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 21:24:20 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:25:53 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 21:26:37 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:28:38 galaxywatcher_ [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 21:29:33 -!- primalux [~Miranda@95.158.0.252] has quit [Quit: o/] 21:29:35 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:44 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:40 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:37:02 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 21:38:13 ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 21:38:43 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:51 Mikey [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:52 -!- Mikey [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:48:26 jan247 [~jan247@180.191.96.16] has joined #lisp 21:48:26 -!- jan247 [~jan247@180.191.96.16] has quit [Changing host] 21:48:26 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:48:53 -!- dreampilot [~dreampilo@c-174-51-235-87.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dreampilot] 21:49:25 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:08 -!- ferada [~user@g224148184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:54:56 ... I -hope- this disassembler is broken. 21:55:03 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.73.16.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:47 Mikey [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:04 -!- Mikey [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:57:05 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@host81-155-55-164.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:23 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:02:47 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 Janik [~chatzilla@79.189.74.148] has joined #lisp 22:04:22 hello 22:05:01 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:08:35 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has 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[~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:10 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:40 Guest34535 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:38 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:32:18 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:35:41 *Xach* has to make some updates for abcl 22:38:09 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:05 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.119.66] has joined #lisp 22:39:08 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.119.66] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:08 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 22:40:16 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:42:13 slyrus 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[~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has joined #lisp 23:00:31 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:00:49 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:06 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:33 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@108.7.68.199] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 23:02:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@xdsl-87-78-130-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:03:01 -!- Guest34535 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:22 sid3k` [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:33 Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:34 -!- Mikey_ [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:05:06 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:42 ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:06:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:07 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:08:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:40 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:00 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:36 -!- fluffcms [~cmsimon@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:39 ... #x1032?!? 23:19:02 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-113-249.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:36 The most-commonly-occurring non-descriptor value, 0x1032, isn't even -consistent- as a tagged value. 23:19:47 #x32 is funcallable-instance-header-widetag. 23:20:22 Oh. Scratch that. Was reading that as #x0132. 23:20:34 So, 16 words of funcallable-instance storage... 23:20:49 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:24:17 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:52 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 23:29:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:33 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:31:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:16 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:33:58 Guest87063 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:54 -!- Guest87063 [~textual@ip72-218-78-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:51 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Restarting Emacs after update...] 23:36:42 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:36:51 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 -!- aidalgol is now known as Guest57148 23:37:34 -!- Guest57148 is now known as aidalgol` 23:37:42 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:47 -!- paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:1104:f400:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has quit [Quit: paperkettles] 23:39:50 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 23:40:08 -!- aidalgol` is now known as aidalgol 23:42:54 nyef: Just to let you know. Moving the undefined/closure tramp to Lisp assembly allowed cmucl's executable feature work on sparc. Now the only cmucl arch where it actually works. :-( 23:43:07 s/work/to work/ 23:45:47 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:47:51 rtoym: And this... is a bad thing? 23:53:38 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:46 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:54:48 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:37 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.1] has joined #lisp 23:56:20 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:56:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:58:58 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:51 jajcloz [~jaj@108.7.68.199] has joined #lisp