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00:59:02 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-46-114.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:59:43 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.155.126] has quit [] 01:00:42 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-64-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:01:45 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:14 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:02:47 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-20-94-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:42 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@2002:440c:cc83:1234:223:dfff:fee0:3016] has quit [] 01:06:45 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@2002:440c:cc83:1234:223:dfff:fee0:3016] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@2002:440c:cc83:1234:223:dfff:fee0:3016] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:42 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-71.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 01:10:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:47 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:35 rkm1000 [62659c44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.156.68] has joined #lisp 01:16:07 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:20:05 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:59 -!- Shmur [csmartin@pool-173-71-147-248.nrflva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 01:22:32 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:25:31 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:15 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:34 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:29:08 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 01:29:52 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:47 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:15 Lycurgus: Highest paid? I doubt that. 01:37:19 nevermind. 01:37:46 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:38:16 np, looks like a buffer retrieval. 01:39:27 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:08 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 01:49:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:36 manic12: herep 01:50:18 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:55:27 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:02:50 -!- rkm1000 [62659c44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.156.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:08:20 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:40 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:11:19 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:57 -!- whr [~user@chello084010174193.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:13:04 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:00 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:56 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:41 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 02:19:49 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:19:56 -!- ignis_ [~quassel@c-98-226-186-66.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 02:21:17 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:21:38 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.74] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:24:27 -!- ef [~ihk@m83-185-20-45.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:32 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.9.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:25:54 if i use (bordeaux-thread:make-thread (fn) :name test1), where will the output from test1 go? it's not getting sent to *inferior-lisp* afaict and not to slime repl either (as expected) 02:28:36 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:30:23 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:33:21 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:14 ... Which "output"? 02:35:06 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:20 derrida: there's a slime setting to redirect stdout from all threads to the repl 02:35:32 don't remember which one it is specifically 02:36:34 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:37:47 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:38:06 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:42:03 Something about "globally redirect io"? 02:42:37 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:52 (It'd be hard to redirect a moon of jupiter on any scale less than globally, as it -is- a globe.) 02:42:52 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:36 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.74] has joined #lisp 02:43:36 And, on that note, I'm going to bed. 02:43:39 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:44:05 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:54 Ralith: ty 02:48:07 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:48:50 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.7.13] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:49:25 swank:*globally-redirect-io* 02:49:25 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:55 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:50:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:51:58 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:43 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:53:52 xinming [~hyy@115.221.6.98] has joined #lisp 02:54:26 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.7.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:09 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:03:28 kirkwood [~kirkwood@c-76-104-244-75.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:19 fiveop [~fiveop@g229175143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:05:40 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:29 hmm 03:12:39 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.6.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:36 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:15:18 yep 03:18:37 xinming [~hyy@115.221.14.235] has joined #lisp 03:18:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:22:41 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.90] has joined #lisp 03:22:41 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:23 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:01 Snamich [~Snamich@166.133.57.238] has joined #lisp 03:25:01 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:23 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:45 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:17 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.149] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:29:32 drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:47 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:00 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:34:20 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:40 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.90] has joined #lisp 03:40:30 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:44 żis there a macro for copying slots in CL standard library? 03:52:56 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:09 only structures get copiers created automatically, but you could easily write a macro 03:53:21 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:53:50 use the effective slots list on the class object 03:58:33 Is this an object: #(256 -438 8814 1420) 03:58:38 If yes, do I need to study clos next to learn how to access the elements of the object? 03:59:09 it's not a clos object, it's a vector 03:59:16 i no longer need it, but thanks you very much anyway :D 04:02:22 manic12, thanks. 04:04:09 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:04:18 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.133.57.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:52 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:31 Snamich [~Snamich@166.133.57.238] has joined #lisp 04:09:44 -!- kirkwood [~kirkwood@c-76-104-244-75.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10:39 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:33 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 04:20:47 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:22:35 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 04:23:15 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:28:17 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:28:32 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 04:35:07 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:37:48 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.161.235] has left #lisp 04:38:15 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:06 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:11 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:14 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:57 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:02:12 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:02:29 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:47 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229175143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:45 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:48 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:52 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:12:37 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:29 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:16:17 -!- marioxcc [~user@fencepost.gnu.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:17:15 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 05:18:18 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:19:26 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:54 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:20:16 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:13 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:22:15 Good morning! 05:26:32 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-30-154.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:00 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-119-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:29:44 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 05:31:23 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 05:31:36 good morning to you evening to others 05:31:59 beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-30-154.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:32:59 good morning beach 05:33:44 Hey manic12. Sorry I left. The computer crashed. I am disappointed with 10.04. 05:33:57 ubuntu? 05:34:46 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:55 Yeah. I have had several problems with it. 05:35:05 glad i didn't upgrade 05:35:45 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:35:51 On the other hand, I can now use the flashplayer plugin for Firefox which wasn't possible before on the 64-bit version. 05:38:13 i only have one computer with ubuntu on the metal, i use vmware everywhere else 05:38:54 so i don't worry too much about flash 05:40:42 never had a mac, don't know if i ever will 05:42:43 I'm one of those people who irrationally supports microsoft - financially 05:43:47 though i do like the fact that my freebsd server never crashes 05:45:41 Oh. These days windows is mostly usable. 05:45:47 what's going on in ..France, is it? 05:45:51 At least as a terminal. 05:46:07 xfree86 05:47:17 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:26 I am really confused by this: http://rubygems.org/gems/clucumber 05:47:26 i wish there were more support for cygwin 05:47:37 manic12: Winding down the academic year. A few more meetings on the program. Tomorrow is fete nat. 05:48:07 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:26 are you a prof? 05:48:42 Yeah. 05:48:43 antifuchs: herep 05:49:17 minion: memo for antifuchs: add clucumber to the list of implementations: http://wiki.github.com/aslakhellesoy/cucumber/wire-protocol 05:49:17 Remembered. I'll tell antifuchs when he/she/it next speaks. 05:49:31 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:33 maniac: Have you tried virtualbox? 05:49:38 sun? 05:49:52 Well, oracle. 05:50:04 ah, yes, right, no 05:50:22 I've been using it for a while -- it seems reasonably good. 05:50:31 does it work on windows? 05:51:36 Yeah. 05:51:56 I use it to run linux on windows netbooks. 05:51:58 i know people use it to run windows on linux 05:52:20 can one not run linux on the metal on a netbook? 05:52:49 If one doesn't mind half of one's magic buttons and power management and so on not working, sure. 05:53:02 ah 05:53:22 And those you could probably fix with sufficient effort, but I no-longer care enough. 05:53:35 Also running it on the bare metal makes it much harder to migrate between machines. 05:54:11 With this I can just copy two files, install the vm, and boot it up somewhere else. 05:54:17 do you run any arm devices? 05:54:36 Only emulated at the moment. 05:55:09 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cumfvvwznbowuqty] has joined #lisp 05:55:19 i've got an arm 9 but it's a p.o.c., I want to get a guru plug and try it out 05:56:38 i would like to see arm used many other places 05:56:52 somebody needs to keep intel honest if amd isn't 05:59:46 vmware supposedly has gl support for windows running on linux but not the other way around 06:00:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.205.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:00:41 beach, are you coming to ILC? 06:03:39 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:14:31 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-134.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:15:16 manic12: 'fraid not. 06:16:03 manic12: I have done a little too much traveling lately. I need a break. 06:16:40 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 06:17:34 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:20:49 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 06:24:45 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:40:21 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:43:27 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:44:34 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 06:47:11 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:47:59 good morning 06:48:31 hi mvilleneuve 06:51:43 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:52:30 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 06:52:36 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:52:59 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 06:56:27 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:57:45 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:10 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:31 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:03:30 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.197.196] has joined #lisp 07:04:38 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 07:06:15 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:07:58 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:09:35 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:10:00 (in CL) When you need to put more than one statement in an if branch, but don't need a (let...), there's a simple grouping construct whose name is totally escaping me; what is it? 07:10:15 progn 07:10:54 Thank you! I thought it was "prog", which seems to be something else entirely. 07:14:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:18:26 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:18:41 hello mvilleneuve 07:20:42 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:42 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 07:23:26 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:23:26 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:47 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.197.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:24:22 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:57 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:35:08 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 07:35:09 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:41 Is there an equivalent to `scanf' in lisp? 07:36:16 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:22 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 didi: fortunately, no. 07:37:41 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:47 didi: What do you want to do? 07:38:22 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:24 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:39:52 spiaggia: It's quite simple, actually. I need to read two integers in a line. I am doing (read-line) but now I need to parse that. 07:39:52 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:08 parse-integer? 07:40:17 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:17 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 07:40:23 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:25 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:37 Zhivago: It complains because the line does not contain a single integer. 07:41:28 Zhivago: Maybe there is a optional parameter to sign that? 07:41:28 didi: How about (read) (read)? 07:41:49 If you read the documentation ... 07:42:00 you will see :junk-allowed 07:42:02 spiaggia: Isn't it going to be slow? 07:42:18 didi: Now why would that be the case? And why do you care? 07:42:32 Zhivago: I see it. But how would I get the second integer? 07:43:10 spiaggia: Well, it is going to run a series of test cases to find prime numbers. And there is a time limit to finish it. 07:43:32 Have a look at the values parse-integer returns ... 07:43:39 Zhivago: Right. 07:43:45 didi: Testing whether a number is prime is probably going to be way slower than reading it. 07:43:57 spiaggia: Sure. 07:44:21 didi: Besides, reading the line and then parsing the string will have to do essentially the same work as (read) (read). 07:44:57 spiaggia: Nice. I will try it. 07:46:01 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 07:46:37 of course, only use (read) on input you're very sure of. 07:47:24 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.196.56] has joined #lisp 07:47:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 mal__: Oh, sure. It is just a algorithm exercise. 07:48:10 Oops, I think I hook up slime in a infinite loop. My laptop is going to melt. 07:48:33 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:50:59 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:51:20 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 07:52:13 Nice! It worked. 07:52:17 That was cool. 07:52:23 Thank you. 07:52:34 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:53:15 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@149.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:26 good morning 07:53:27 antifuchs, memo from fusss: add clucumber to the list of implementations: http://wiki.github.com/aslakhellesoy/cucumber/wire-protocol 07:53:43 hi antifuchs 07:54:29 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:54:37 minion: memo for fuss: Thanks for the suggestion. Added. 07:54:37 Remembered. I'll tell fuss when he/she/it next speaks. 07:55:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 07:56:06 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-34-80.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:46 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:57:47 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 07:58:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:02 hello antifuchs 07:59:03 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:00:59 hi spiaggia (: 08:08:01 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 08:09:41 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 08:10:26 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:10:26 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 08:12:15 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 08:13:34 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:13:58 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:18:18 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:19:52 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.196.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:19:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cumfvvwznbowuqty] has left #lisp 08:20:23 rossome [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 08:21:31 rossome_ [~JohnRambo@32.97.110.64] has joined #lisp 08:21:39 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn341.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:23:32 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 08:24:04 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:25:00 -!- rossome [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:26:19 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:34 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 08:28:00 ouch: (macrolet ((foo (x) `(print x))) (defun a (x) (foo x)) (defmacro b (x) `,(foo x))) I want b to expand to (print x). I belive I understand the expansion of A, but fails totally to understand B. 08:28:27 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:40 Good morning 08:30:35 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:30:41 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:31:51 Perhaps you meant to write `(print ,x) ? 08:34:27 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:36:33 peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-84.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:26 -!- peddie____ [~peddie@adsl-99-22-93-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:27 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:39:40 nha [~prefect@128.178.42.58] has joined #lisp 08:44:38 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-20-94-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:45:12 I want to avoid duplicate code in (macrolet ((foo (x) `(list 0 (print ,x)))) (defun a (y) (foo y))) (defmacro b (x) `(list 0 (print ,x))) 08:45:36 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-84.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:45 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:25 ef [~ihk@m83-185-20-116.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:47:05 peddie [~peddie@99-27-200-25.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:29 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-20-94-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:27 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:51:08 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:53:03 -!- Intensity [gnjnSDjgDl@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:53:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:58:26 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:28 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:59:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:04:31 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:52 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:47 bgum23 [~bgum23@HERTZ.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #lisp 09:12:11 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:25 lhz: macros don't define nor capture the lexical environment... you can't rely on a macrolet's definition to be captured by an inner defmacro 09:14:32 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:00 (the first part of what i've said is an approximation) 09:17:48 ignas [~ignas@78.60.242.102] has joined #lisp 09:18:20 lhz : maybe define a procedure like `(defun expand-foo (x) `(print ,x))', then `(macrolet ((foo (x) (expand-foo x))) (defun a (y) (foo y)) (defmacro b (z) (expand-foo z)))' ? 09:21:17 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:23:15 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:19 Komi [Komi@62.32.130.35] has joined #lisp 09:25:18 xan_ [~xan@217.39.4.191] has joined #lisp 09:25:58 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:26:12 hello lispers 09:27:23 hello 09:29:51 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:34:57 -!- thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:24 Ogedei [~user@e178215053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:59 some posts in c.l.l are really really excellent. Is there a place that collects all such posts? 09:36:22 In the SBCL docs at http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Hash-Table-Extensions , the description of :key-and-value and :key-or-value under the documentation of the :weakness argument to make hash-table seems to flip the meaning of those two options. Or do they just have un-intuitive names? 09:36:55 leo2007: Google goups does. 09:36:59 *r 09:37:14 relcomp: but it also collects rubbish. 09:38:00 peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-133-223.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:18 That's true. And they deliberately do so, AFAIK. 09:39:04 relcomp: why do you think they do it deliberately? 09:39:15 -!- peddie [~peddie@99-27-200-25.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:23 I have never seen anyone collect spam :) 09:40:12 blandest: I remember (but not very well) that there was a discussion about that on c.l.l. 09:43:04 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:43:15 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48:38 Ogedei: Yes, it does look like they have it backward. 09:50:51 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:51:55 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:56:04 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-blyaqdkarhjhotmy] has joined #lisp 09:56:25 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:11 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:06:15 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-134.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:57 no, the doc seems correct to me 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:09 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:11:35 :key-and-value means "the life of the entry depends on both components being otherwise alive", :key-or-value means "either of the components being otherwise alive" 10:12:11 the subject matter is itself confusing, though :) 10:12:13 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:14:01 perhaps getting De Morgan on the doc's ass would help somewhat 10:14:42 cmm: "If weakness is :key-or-value and both the key and the value would otherwise be garbage the entry can be removed." 10:15:24 cmm: Ok. 10:15:35 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:15:50 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 10:15:59 It should be called :strength instead. 10:16:37 yeah 10:24:55 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-110-117.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:43 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 dfox [~dfox@e80.dkm.cz] has joined #lisp 10:38:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@217.39.4.191] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:52:12 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:57 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has joined #lisp 10:56:57 hello all 10:57:14 Does anybody know what c2float is? 10:58:08 *Xach* does not know what c2float is 10:58:40 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:55 G'morning all. 10:59:10 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:03:25 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-241.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 ramzez99 [~ramzez@83.217.107.66] has joined #lisp 11:04:59 -!- ramzez99 [~ramzez@83.217.107.66] has left #lisp 11:06:33 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has quit [Quit: longkid] 11:07:02 longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has joined #lisp 11:09:42 longkid: Google is a good friend, indeed: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/c6t7ws2s.aspx 11:10:24 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:49 longkid: Sorry. Premature post! 11:11:36 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:51 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:35 pkhuong: I'm almost ready to suggest that we move SBCL to safepoints instead of PA, just to make the calling convention and GC not fight each other so much. 11:17:15 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:17:43 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest36239 11:20:14 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 11:24:52 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:30:36 david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-190.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:30:44 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:28 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:33:31 -!- rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: rlb3] 11:33:54 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 11:34:17 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:38:57 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:12 peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-135-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:09 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:44:58 -!- ef [~ihk@m83-185-20-116.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:45:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:45:37 peterhil [~peterhil@YZMKDCCXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 11:47:34 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-133-223.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:48:10 -!- david_ [~cinch@85-127-116-190.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:10 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-28-250.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:55 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 11:56:45 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:00 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uexdyehzzoibaspr] has joined #lisp 12:06:18 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-85-90.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:23 Lovely: Function redefinition is not atomic with respect to itself or with respect to function calling. 12:11:01 And I'm not about to start putting memory barriers in the bloody funcall sequences. 12:11:26 Intensity [NTn3PruECG@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:19:02 nyef: hmmm... I can think of at least one method to make it atomic without modifying funcall sequence... though I'll admit it's not nice 12:19:37 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-85-90.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:19:49 the other method would require significant reworking of VM and possibly be too alien to fit into SBCL 12:21:43 (caching function addresses with short cache lifetime is the second one, stopping the world for atomic redefinition is the first) 12:22:56 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 12:25:23 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:02 Well, the other option is actually to eliminate the raw-addr slot. 12:26:18 If there's only the one slot, updates are atomic. 12:26:27 And that also eliminates the closure trampoline. 12:27:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:07 Hrm. Or maybe it doesn't eliminate the closure trampoline. 12:27:15 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:36 Right, doesn't eliminate the trampoline, means the trampoline has to be boxed? 12:30:21 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:50 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:05 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.130.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:32:08 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 12:32:45 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-157-229.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:05 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:36:15 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uexdyehzzoibaspr] has left #lisp 12:40:32 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-20-94-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 12:44:28 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:21 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:51 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.155.44] has joined #lisp 12:53:09 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 12:59:33 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-64-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:01:52 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-46-114.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:02:39 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:02 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:08:17 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 13:10:27 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-241.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:54 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:05 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 13:15:41 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn341.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:17:34 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-vbkcyzwifwbhnwta] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:19:20 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:19:52 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 13:22:49 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 13:23:25 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e0055-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:13 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:25:53 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:59 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e760c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 13:27:28 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.155.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-blyaqdkarhjhotmy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:27:49 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:00 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 13:31:00 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:32:07 kirkwood [~kirkwood@c-76-104-244-75.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:49 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:34:10 -!- nha [~prefect@128.178.42.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:14 -!- Guest36239 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:42:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@wsip-174-79-187-228.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:24 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:07 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:22 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.176.107] has joined #lisp 13:46:51 zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:47:19 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:06 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:53 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.176.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@YZMKDCCXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:55:11 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.124] has joined #lisp 13:57:21 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:57:43 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:45 anybody knows if there exist something like "lisp-gnome" ?, 13:58:02 yes, gnome bindings for lisp 13:58:09 ... Is that anything like underpants-gnome or zurich-gnome? 13:58:16 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:58:16 nyef: any thoughts on replacing our MMU tricks with a software write barrier? (: 13:58:27 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@wsip-174-79-187-228.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:27 (: 13:58:30 pkhuong: Eek! 13:58:40 -!- AqD|Home [~aqd_home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:46 (I'm having enough trouble with the calling convention right now, thank you very much.) 13:59:04 araujo: http://www.cliki.net/GNOME ? 13:59:14 The PPC closure tramp is going to die, btw. 14:00:04 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:00:13 billitch, yeah, checked that before .. mmm.. 14:00:19 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:25 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:42 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:31 peterhil [peterhil@YMKDCCLXXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 araujo: followed this : http://ww.telent.net/corba/gnome-lisp.html ? 14:03:58 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e760c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:07 I don't know CLORB, maybe it's not worse than ffi ? 14:04:09 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e760c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:23 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 IIOP is dead, all hail DBUS 14:07:22 billitch: except that GNOME seems to drop CORBA 14:07:23 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:43 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:07:51 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:08:05 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 14:08:25 (the funny thing is that D-Bus created an issue that neither CORBA nor D-COP had, and now they have to live with it XD) 14:08:28 and cl-dbus is.. just another school project, I guess 14:08:59 clisp has good dbus binding 14:09:03 p_l: Which issue would that be? 14:09:30 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:09:37 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-110-117.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:01 it's going to be obsoleted in favor of something even shinier in a couple of years? 14:10:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:11:50 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:12:09 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 14:13:12 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 14:14:49 davazp` [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 14:15:09 -!- davazp` [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:20 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:18 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:39 ef [~ihk@m83-185-22-27.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:17:08 nyef: lack of network support 14:17:40 D-COP was session-local, not locked down to single computer (it used X11 ICE for transmission), CORBA had IIOP 14:18:01 D-BUS only works on single computer 14:18:38 rme [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:54 D-BUS is like a broken version of DCOP 14:19:12 p_l: I thought it's a more-or-less explicit feature (lack of network support, that is)? 14:19:36 protects unwitting programmers from the perils of RPC and all that 14:19:41 -!- rossome_ [~JohnRambo@32.97.110.64] has left #lisp 14:19:50 cmm: except the perils of RPC are there even on local machine 14:20:16 longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has joined #lisp 14:21:03 p_l: uh, which ones? 14:21:27 cmm: replace "network latency" with the fact that the other app might not respond fast etc.. 14:21:53 well, D-BUS works across multiple computers fine: see the listen element in the dbus-daemon manual 14:21:54 also, some genius added XML to D-BUS, which was absent in D-COP 14:22:22 foom: last time I heard, there were still some issues like complete disregard for security or something like that in D-BUS networking 14:22:28 yeah, I think that's about right 14:22:58 anyways, you don't *really* want it to listen over the network, you want it to be forwarded over X11 14:23:00 i.e. it used the same stuff on IP as it does on Unix, except it uses unix file permissions for security 14:23:15 foom: aka "let's break stuff further" trend 14:23:35 it'd be pretty nice to add an x11 transport to it. 14:23:52 and IIOP is secure? 14:23:58 foom: or you could just resurrect D-COP in a way that is not dependant on KDE and add Unix socket transport to it... 14:24:32 you could, but everybody already converged on DBUS 14:24:47 easier to add ICE to DBUS than DBUS to DCOP. 14:25:13 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:46 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.135.242] has left #lisp 14:25:46 personally I'd prefer 9P over DBUS, since there would be nearly no difference in features and 9P might actually be less hassle to work with... 14:28:02 lkcl suggested using freedce to freedesktop guys, it was too late, I believe (http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.dbus/887/focus=889) 14:28:58 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:29:15 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.2] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 who really cares whether it should've been reinvented or not now 14:29:20 also http://www.advogato.org/article/999.html (cf. the last comment) 14:31:03 mega1 [~quassel@pool-02711.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:33:04 I like "(a bastardised son of a whore for an IPC mechanism)" 14:36:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:25 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-02711.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:27 heh, yeah... or "do the designers of XMLRPC, JSONRPC and all the other simple RPC mechanism sleep well at night, knowing that their "best shot" has been completely blown away by the programming.... _gods_ who developed DCE/RPC. " 14:38:36 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:29 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:55 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:31 who wrote that article? it seems a bit over the top and bitter 14:44:05 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 ah, indeed. "Linuxcare's treatment of Luke Leighton was almost criminally negligent" 14:46:13 mega1 [~quassel@pool-03922.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:48:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-5.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:00 foom, http://www.advogato.org/article/1000.html (the comments, lkcl considers himself "..as the only person in the world with the knowledge and expertise in this area _and_ the freedom from corporate restrictive control") 14:51:19 that makes it sound like lkcl is tom lord 14:52:17 hee hee hee 14:52:37 nah, tom lord has some sense of humor 14:53:31 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 14:54:59 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.116] has joined #lisp 14:58:26 not when it comes to the sad, sad world of commercial free software development! 15:00:15 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-82-5.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:00:18 *nyef* screams. 15:00:25 lol 15:00:38 Undefined functions are -only- handled through the fdefn-raw-addr slot. 15:00:56 In such cases, the fdefn-fun slot is NULL. 15:01:06 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 15:01:34 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:44 So, I still need the closure tramp, but I also need to load the fdefn-fun before the raw-addr. 15:02:40 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:01 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.127.30] has joined #lisp 15:04:36 Bah, I seem to have gotten SLIME and/or SBCL into a state where whatever function I call it starts stepping. Help. 15:04:36 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:21 I've never tried this, but... (setf sb-impl::*stepping* nil) ? 15:05:47 *nyef* has the PPC step-instrumenting code on screen right now. 15:06:19 Reading a bit here http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2008-05/msg01341.html maybe you accidently pressed s when you got to an error? 15:06:37 Hmmm, that variable is unbound. 15:06:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.151.172] has joined #lisp 15:07:12 TDT: that looks like it. 15:07:17 I just needed to pick the right restart. 15:07:25 Aborting back to the SLIME REPL didn't do it. 15:07:43 But "Resume normal execution", perhaps unsurprisingly, did. 15:08:08 dce/rpc is designed to be fast, flexible, scalable - hence the 15:08:08 reason why the US government has been trying to bury it for years. 15:08:10 haha 15:08:20 Ugh. You're on a threaded x86oid, and -someone- didn't STATIC_TLS_INIT the stepping slot. 15:11:02 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:14:08 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:24 *p_l* was looking more than once into getting DCE/RPC running, but never had enough thrust 15:16:07 still, 9P is IMHO a better protocol than D-COP or D-BUS... 15:16:13 -!- oconnore [~eric@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:16:17 look at what Plan B or Octopus can do :) 15:18:07 predict world cup outcomes, steal underwater cameras, ... 15:19:30 lol 15:19:45 and rile up germans enough for them to call for public roasting? 15:19:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:26 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:21:52 roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 15:24:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.151.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:48 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 15:30:08 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 15:32:56 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:13 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:49 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:42:19 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:46 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 15:43:57 -!- peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-135-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:07 peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-135-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:14 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:49 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.151.172] has joined #lisp 15:49:56 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 15:50:09 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:49 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:52:39 pseudomonas [~marquet@pool-96-255-159-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:01 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:38 peddie___ [~peddie@adsl-99-35-131-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:44 -!- pseudomonas is now known as pseudomonas|away 15:57:49 -!- peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-135-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:24 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:05 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-252-73.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:01:57 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:54 pregier [~pregier@somalia.ittc.ku.edu] has joined #lisp 16:05:00 -!- kirkwood [~kirkwood@c-76-104-244-75.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:44 thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 -!- thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:06:53 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 -!- ef [~ihk@m83-185-22-27.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:08:08 dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 16:08:13 -!- benny [~user@i577A846F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:26 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-17-210.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:08:50 how many free-for-academic-use common lisp implementations are viable under osx these days? I can only seem to get sbcl installed through macports but don't know much about where to look next 16:09:17 ccl is another choice (clozure common lisp) 16:09:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-76-104.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:09:25 not sure beyond there 16:09:54 cool, thanks; i hadn't tried that one yet 16:10:11 these two are the main ones 16:10:27 CCL is probably the best integrated (it is derived from Macintosh Common Lisp after all), commercial ones seem to work well enough as well 16:10:30 Plus there's always ABCL 16:10:50 that helps a lot; i had been fighting gcl because i'm used to always looking for gnu packages first 16:11:27 pregier: GCL is a fossil... :P 16:11:38 that also explains a lot :) 16:11:40 pregier: a common error. 16:11:50 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:56 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:06 does the fact that abcl runs in a jvm have any ramifications that should be considered up front? 16:12:33 i hope to be playing with some tight recursion over large nested lists 16:12:33 I haven't been able to find the documentation for ABCL. 16:12:59 pregier: CL doesn't require tail recursion. 16:13:30 pregier: and style-wise tends to favor looping over recursion. 16:14:14 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:14:27 interesting; I'm still getting started and hadn't caught on to that yet. I'll have to watch for relevant information there then. 16:14:35 ef [~ihk@m83-185-26-86.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:16:05 well, you won't use tail recursion on nested lists 16:16:08 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:16:35 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 16:18:19 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 16:18:28 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:33 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:18:54 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:14 pregier: clisp is also GNU 16:20:30 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:36 I couldn't get clisp through macports, though I might try other methods 16:20:38 that doesn't make it any better 16:20:47 pregier: a sort-of cousin of GCL is ECL (both come from Kyoto Common Lisp) 16:21:09 pregier: did you try to use clbuild? 16:21:12 pregier: i got clisp from macports, what the prob? 16:21:21 Well, ECL is a direct descendent of GCL, isn't it? 16:21:26 Zhivago: no 16:22:42 pregier: if you're on OSX, Clozure CL is the best free implementation. 16:22:45 ECL is descendant of EcoLisp which was forked from KCL, GCL was also forked from KCL, another KCL fork was Ibuki Common Lisp (which was used afaik for some time by the company that later used Chestnut) 16:23:07 if it's an x86-oid OSX machine, sbcl is also decent. 16:23:25 I'm still pretty clueless with respect to the final structure of the code I'm trying to write; all I know is I have a small number of large sets and rules for determining functions based on relations between them, so i need something reasonably mature & fast for iteration of those functions; I don't know if that's a problem for ccl in the jvm, probably not 16:23:56 ccl in particular has a very nice objective-c bridge that exposes the graphics routines built in to the system. 16:24:00 pregier: ABCL is the one running on JVM 16:24:06 d'oh, thx 16:24:08 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:24:19 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:24:24 my head is swimming with all these lisps 16:24:37 And yea, KCL begat Ibuki (foresaken for Chestnut), GCL, and EcoLisp, who begat ECL. 16:24:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:24:54 Lo 16:25:23 *Xach* wonders how hard it would be to rip the sha512 bits out of ironclad's supporting structure 16:25:52 ccl, like sbcl, compiles to the machine code. 16:26:10 although the output of ccl seems to be marginally slower than sbcl's output. 16:26:16 When I try to install clisp in macports, I get "Unable top open port: invalid command name \"supported_archs\" " 16:26:24 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@78.60.242.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:26:59 file a bug against the port. 16:27:13 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:15 pregier: grab CCL from SVN 16:27:55 svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.5/darwinx86/ccl 16:28:11 sweet 16:28:22 pregier: you can try to use clbuild for ecl,sbcl,libs & etc. and ccl is great on osx as everyone seems to agree 16:28:24 there are also dmg's if that's your thing, but I don't know how stale they are. 16:28:28 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 16:29:24 I usually go with stale binaries, but in this case I actually care enough to learn the hard way :) 16:30:45 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.194.56] has joined #lisp 16:32:00 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 pregier: the one in the above link is stable 16:32:40 just finished checking out... 16:32:49 and to summarize, if I understand right, the most well-known choices for osx are sbcl and ccl, though ecl, abcl, and clisp should be viable as well? 16:33:04 fsvo 'viable' 16:33:18 -!- dfox [~dfox@e80.dkm.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:29 i've never had much luck with clisp, and ecl is getting a lot better but it's still in heavy development. 16:33:57 they have some features ccl and sbcl lack, but aren't so good in general 16:34:41 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:42 pregier: in order, CCL, SBCL, ABCL and ECL (ABCL is as good as the JVM is, while ECL is a wild ride on any platform but probably can be compiled anywhere and run) 16:34:53 there's also CLISP, dunno how well it works 16:35:02 I have little experience with it 16:35:50 pregier: also note that sbcl is itself written in cl ;) 16:36:03 so is CCL 16:36:06 nice :) 16:36:31 benny [~user@i577A7669.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:11 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:47 rkm_ [62659c44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.156.68] has joined #lisp 16:39:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:44 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.194.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:31 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:41:16 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:41:40 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178215053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:42:15 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:17 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-vbkcyzwifwbhnwta] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:44:20 -!- rkm_ [62659c44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.101.156.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:46:04 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:12 fe[nl]ix: A lot of my software is no longer building with my iolib because it can't find IOLIB.SYSCALLS:EAGAIN. Did that change recently? 16:46:28 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:46:30 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-157-229.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:52 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:47:02 ah, yes. the latest commit couldn't be more clear. 16:47:31 ? 16:47:38 fe[nl]ix: three projects so far do not build because of that change. 16:47:59 :| 16:51:00 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@97.77.55.38] has joined #lisp 16:51:22 ~_~ 16:51:34 Tanami: Knock it off. 16:51:55 Xach: :< 16:51:57 okay 16:52:17 lichtblau: two of them are your hemlocks 16:53:46 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:16 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:12 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:56:44 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.198.81] has joined #lisp 16:56:53 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:57:16 slaker [~slaker@212.183.140.0] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:20 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:14 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:02:39 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:42 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:03:58 *Xach* wonders why iolib removed EAGAIN 17:04:19 or rather, why fe[nl]ix removed EAGAIN from iolib... 17:06:20 btbngr [~Matt@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:06:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:06:57 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@97.77.55.38] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 17:07:33 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:07:40 *Xach* joins the mailing list 17:09:58 -!- slaker [~slaker@212.183.140.0] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:10:16 -!- dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:12:25 Komi [Komi@83.231.94.66] has joined #lisp 17:12:32 hi 17:12:38 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 17:12:53 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-91962.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:17 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:18:51 Was the iolib.streams package ever named or nicknamed io.streams in the past? 17:18:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20:57 ah, i see from the commit log that it was. 17:21:02 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:06 *Xach* runs into a project that uses the old name 17:22:14 orz 17:22:45 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-17-210.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:23:19 Tanami: *campers*? 17:23:35 I'm not sure what you are talking about 17:23:39 orz = head-desk 17:24:20 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-17-210.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:18 Tanami: http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Orz 17:30:05 I smell the ur-quan masters 17:30:25 I was playing that the other day! 17:33:47 *Xach* wonders if ron garrett will confuse "do not want to work at Lisp Startup" with "do not want to work at Lisp Startup with/for Ron Garrett" 17:33:57 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:34:06 re http://www.lispniks.com/pipermail/bay-area-lispniks/2010-July/000353.html 17:34:18 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:39 how about not wanting to work on a startup without having any clue what it's about? 17:38:10 Who's Ron Garrett? Sounds familiar 17:38:14 Erann Gat 17:38:16 my friend and I are intending to make a lisp/haskell startup 17:38:20 luis: I think that covers quite a lot of startups :) 17:39:02 "I want to do a startup in lisp, whatever it is we end up doing" is probably not exactly a recipe for success.. 17:39:32 I used to work for one which started off as something to do with text messages, and split into network middleware for games and something to do with hairdressers 17:39:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-52.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:40:05 I want a lisp startup that specialises in custom CMS's 17:40:15 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-03922.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:33 Tanami: have CMSes, at this point, not been done to death? 17:41:55 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 sure, but most trendy businesses don't know this 17:41:57 maybe someone should make a startup for doing reddit clones. 17:42:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: an apple a day] 17:42:33 hmm, he's an angel investor, it seems 17:43:23 rsynnott: Is this just one of 53 channels in which you lurk? 17:43:26 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:43:43 Ron Garrett is a famous Lisp-using-then-Lisp-hating gasbag. 17:43:59 *rsynnott* missed that 17:44:07 *rsynnott* is obviously not paying enough attention :) 17:44:14 General line of attack: "I can't use Lisp because nobody uses Lisp and therefore I can't justify it to the higher-ups (employers, investors, etc)" 17:44:24 Xach: sounds like a pretty all-round boring person 17:44:30 but he's an investor himself :) 17:44:33 maybe he should use ruby 17:44:44 that might be ENTERPRISE enough for him 17:45:29 rsynnott: He wrote the oft-referenced thing about using Lisp at NASA. 17:45:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:45:35 peddie____ [~peddie@adsl-76-254-67-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:10 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 17:46:50 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6f75cfb5a289d3f6 has some context 17:47:21 ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:33 -!- peddie___ [~peddie@adsl-99-35-131-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:09 Xach: ah, so the startup message is a sign that he's regaining faith, then? :) 17:49:36 *Xach* doubts that 17:50:20 probably going to end up with "I told you so." it sounds like. 17:50:27 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:59 -!- pseudomonas|away [~marquet@pool-96-255-159-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:10 johanlindberg [~johanlind@81-234-18-19-o286.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:10 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:00 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-157-229.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:35 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:56:50 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:32 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.94.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:01:07 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 18:01:08 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 18:01:08 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 18:02:45 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:42 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:15 -!- ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:49 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:56 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-253.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:16 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:08:57 astalla [~astalla@93-36-224-186.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:09:54 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:02 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:11:02 how would one split a string along spaces? 18:11:26 krzysz00: download cl-ppcre 18:11:35 krzysz00: and then use cl-ppcre:split 18:11:37 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 for added hotness, also install cl-interpol, and then you can (ppre:split #?/\s+/ str) 18:13:29 Xach: because of a deficiency/bug in iolib, I removed EAGAIN 18:13:52 fe[nl]ix: What deficiency/bug? 18:14:41 dang, do i really want to add dependency #2 to my program to code a wprd wrap? 18:14:49 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:04 afk 18:15:18 krzysz00: you can use sb-bsd-sockets::split 18:15:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:15 cffi:foreign-enum-keyword-list uses with-hash-table-iterator, and was using cffi:foreign-enum-keyword-list to map error values to the respective condition classes 18:17:11 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #lisp 18:17:32 fe[nl]ix: I had to catch that error in the past. Do you have reason to think that the underlying problem for that would be gone? 18:17:49 but since EWOULDBLOCK and EAGAIN are equal, one some implementations 11 maps to iolib.syscalls:ewouldblock, sometime to iolib.syscalls:eagain 18:18:42 why is that a problem? 18:18:59 because they are different types 18:19:04 shouldn't you just arrange that (eq eagain ewouldblock) on such implementations? 18:19:08 so, until I find a better way to fix it, I think that EAGAIN can get lost 18:19:24 Ok, what should people who use IOLIB.SYSCALLS:EAGAIN in their code do? 18:19:53 tell me the names of the systems and I'll send them patches 18:20:17 fe[nl]ix: hemlock/src/ioconnections.lisp 18:20:19 foom: we're talking about condition classes 18:20:37 <_3b> cl-opengl has the same problem, but with keywords instead of types 18:20:50 so do you map EAGAIN and EWOULDBLOCK both to ewouldblock now? 18:21:18 lichtblau: you should change that to ewouldblock 18:21:37 fe[nl]ix: okay, will do 18:21:57 foom: EAGAIN and EWOULDBLOCK are the same on every *nix system that matters 18:22:22 fe[nl]ix: cl-zmq also broke. 18:22:49 so, only hemlock and cl-zmq ? 18:22:51 fe[nl]ix: Also, when did IO.STREAMS go away? 18:22:54 fe[nl]ix: That I found. 18:23:08 Xach: long time ago 18:23:10 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 18:23:40 In other news -- Do you know what's awesome? Dmitry's SBCL works on wine. 18:24:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:24:07 lichtblau: wow! now you need to run abcl on cloak in sbcl on wine on linux. 18:24:11 (in bochs?) 18:24:33 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:45 fe[nl]ix: For some reason, cl-redis did not get the memo. 18:25:25 Xach: hah 18:25:35 lichtblau: linux/hppa has them different. :) 18:25:37 Xach: I think that being able to test the win32 version of SBCL has tremendous benefit for SBCL developers and SBCL win32 development, and isn't esoteric at all. 18:26:24 lichtblau: WINE won't get you acceptable testing. 18:26:36 <_3b> better than /no/ testing :p 18:27:09 _3b: actually, I disagree. You're likely to come across bugs and start chasing them down only to realize that it's just a gap in WINE support. 18:27:15 so it would, in fact, be a _waste_ of time. 18:27:17 <_3b> usually what breaks is the ability to build at all when someone misses a #ifdef or whatever 18:28:12 <_3b> sykopomp: well, presumably if that became a problem, you just add a 'get someone to test it on real windows' step before worrying about bugs that show up under wine :) 18:28:47 _3b: doesn't that defeat the point? :) You now have to check all bugs on windows. 18:29:03 when the point of using wine would be to not need a windows installation, neh? 18:29:25 does anyone have pointers to a word wrap fnction? 18:29:34 <_3b> right, but you can work on them, or get some idea of a lack of bugs without windows 18:29:45 Komi [Komi@62.32.148.111] has joined #lisp 18:29:51 (Less awesome: It only works with wine 1.0. Recent wine 1.2 refuses to map read only space. But that sounds like a much less significant issue than sbcl HEAD's has.) 18:29:55 krzysz00: Hmm, I have one, let me see how crufty it is. 18:29:56 *_3b* wonders if pointing to TeX would be too much of a pointer 18:30:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:30 ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:38 krzysz00: can't you just cook up something simple with cl:position? 18:31:48 krzysz00: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ER6 for a quick splitter 18:31:57 using position would also work 18:32:14 and of course my function could be more general by passing in what you want to split on instead of hardcoding #\SPACE 18:32:28 *Xach* wrote a line-wrapper for minifesto, but it's too ugly for this planet, sorry 18:32:43 (by "quick" I mean I wrote it quickly, and its kind of ugly) 18:32:50 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:34:34 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:57 krzysz00: word wrapper at http://paste.lisp.org/+2ER7 18:37:06 and it's pretty ugly 18:37:23 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082C4B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:41 I think it doesn't handle punctuation correctly either 18:38:21 Xach: which memo ? 18:38:49 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082F07C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:09 actually it doesn't seem to work at all. So never mind. 18:40:03 -!- Helheim [~helheim@93.186.169.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:07 abhaya [wuwei@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ysdtvzyqmoqcyabv] has joined #lisp 18:40:14 fe[nl]ix: that IO.STREAMS went away 18:40:20 oh 18:40:55 What are the defining differences between common lisp and scheme? 18:41:17 abhaya: I like nikodemus's formulation 18:41:30 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.198.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:41:30 Simply because it's ANSI standardized? 18:41:35 Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious." Lispnik: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs." 18:41:47 abhaya: oh hello 18:41:59 Tanami: Yo. 18:42:13 Xach knows what he's talking about 18:42:28 Yes, I've seen his book. 18:43:03 Xach: So, I guess you prefer CL? 18:43:04 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-157-229.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:43:04 Get out of my brain! 18:43:09 abhaya: Yes. 18:43:30 Xach: Because of ... 18:43:30 krzysz00: ah, fixed version http://paste.lisp.org/+2ER7/1 18:44:12 I found scheme users to be very elitist 18:44:44 abhaya: I haven't used Scheme enough to compare & contrast. I know smart people who use Scheme, and smart people who use CL. 18:44:57 Tanami: I don't really care about the users, being as I only interact with one other. Who uses Racket. 18:45:08 abhaya: I certainly didn't spend 9 years learning Scheme and then 9 years learning CL and then compare them objectively. 18:45:13 Xach: Right, fair enough. 18:45:34 Xach: Well, then your opinion clearly cannot matter in the least! 18:46:07 *Xach* regrets nothing about learning CL 18:46:36 Xach: Which other languages do you toy with? 18:46:37 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:53 abhaya: None. 18:47:17 *Xach* is too busy working on CL projects to get started from scratch with other systems at the moment 18:47:27 how is Movitz going? 18:48:30 Tanami: Hasn't changed lately. 18:48:46 are there any alternatives? 18:49:03 Tanami: for what purpose? 18:49:25 an OS written almost entirely in lisp 18:49:34 abhaya: i wanted to try scheme, but it has poor emacs integration, and i could not get used to DrRacket 18:49:39 Tanami: Don't know. Not an area I find that interesting. 18:49:48 jbd: See scheme-mode ... 18:50:38 jbd: At least, this is what I'm using. 18:50:53 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:50:56 abhaya: is there a repl? 18:51:01 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:51:04 this renaming of drscheme is giving me a headache. 18:51:13 jbd: It uses mzscheme/mzracket iirc. 18:51:31 Fade: It's a good reason, iirc 18:51:41 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.133.57.238] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 18:52:14 People think PLT Scheme to be a language standard of sorts, like CL 18:52:34 I think there's an explanation for the name change somewhere. 18:52:46 i'm sure there is. 18:53:02 You could look into it 18:53:04 renaming a well established system like that is just annoying, irrespective of the stated reason. 18:53:47 Perhaps, but weren't M-expressions well established in lisp before S-expressions came into play? 18:53:59 uh.. 18:54:03 no 18:54:03 Other way around. 18:54:06 abhaya: the other way around, M-expressions were supposed to be implemented later 18:54:15 Oh, I see 18:54:38 And I guess then, that they never were 18:54:41 even better/uglier word wrapping: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ER7/2 18:54:49 I'm finished now, I think 18:54:58 the original papers often talk about M-expressions, however they were lacking an actual parser for them in beginning, then people found out that M-expressions don't work well despite numerous tries 18:55:19 p_l: Oh, right. 18:55:55 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:20 fe[nl]ix: Do you plan to make a versioned release of iolib any time soon? 18:56:40 fe[nl]ix: io.streams is present in iolib 0.6.0, and that's what cl-redis expects 18:57:09 angie [~angie@unaffiliated/angie] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 Well, thanksfor the history lesson. Later. 18:57:45 -!- abhaya [wuwei@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ysdtvzyqmoqcyabv] has left #lisp 18:58:59 Xach: I do, but to do that we'll need to release CFFI first 18:59:05 and that needs some work 18:59:06 rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:48 -!- ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:49 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fc0ef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:14 asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.6] has joined #lisp 19:06:05 p_l: what was the problem with m-expressions 19:06:43 fe[nl]ix: Were you able to build cmucl? Did you get unsubscribed from cmucl-help? 19:07:34 fatblueduck: I guess they didn't mesh well enoguh with macros once people started using macros, and then people already got used to M-expressions... though there were lisps that implemented them, iirc 19:07:50 search the net for "History of Programming Languages" pdf, it had a chapter on it 19:09:05 *Xach* wonders about a Hackers on Planet Lisp conference 19:09:06 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:20 rtoym: haven't tried yet, and I think I managed to unsubscribe 19:09:26 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:12 hi fe[nl]ix 19:10:45 <[df]> there's a mccarthy quote on wikipedia that explains what happened to m-expressions pretty well to me 19:12:44 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-218-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:45 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:33 hi Blkt :) 19:13:47 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:00 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 [df]: there's also an actual, working implementation of M-expressions for Common Lisp. 19:15:22 -!- delYsid [~user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:36 if you feel like torture is a good way to teach a lesson. 19:17:10 sykopomp: how was it called? CGOL? 19:17:12 grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 isn't Dylan effectively lisp + m-exps? 19:19:08 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/m-expression/ 19:19:55 fe[nl]ix: If you run into trouble, let me know. What was the magic for unsubscribing? 19:20:15 Good evening everyone! 19:20:21 heya, beach 19:21:05 Fade: Dylan isn't really m-exprs, but lisp with syntax 19:21:20 more syntax* 19:21:28 what sykopomp said :) 19:21:40 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.151.172] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 19:21:49 syntax is great 19:22:00 so is being able to manipulate your code. 19:22:38 I see I missed an interesting discussion. Or not. 19:22:42 luckily macros on syntaxful languages is a solved problem. :) 19:22:54 foom: fsvo solved. 19:23:33 foom: the macros I've seen still don't seem quite as convenient as CL's. 19:23:58 foom: are you referring to 'Extending the Scope of Syntactic Abstraction'? 19:24:25 Boo has some special macro syntax that makes things look suspiciously like CL's macros, but still not as convenient :| 19:24:50 see http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/BOO-95 19:24:50 M-expressions are there: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/m-expression/ 19:25:14 I was thinking of Java Syntactic Extender. 19:25:22 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:25:26 it has a paper *and* an implementation (although who knows if the implementation still works) 19:25:27 Nemerle got some level of macros, though their definitely aren't as good as lisp ones, and there's Syntax extensions in Haskell 19:26:42 isn't extending the syntax sort of the ultimate side-effect? 19:26:46 :) 19:27:03 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:34 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:27:44 foom: hmm, interesting, from the man who brought us goo :) 19:28:04 Ooh! sykopomp already gave it (*^,^*) 19:29:36 I would probably be more okay with non-sexp-based macro systems if it also meant I could code using a tool equivalent to paredit. 19:29:47 actually, that's likely possible... 19:30:22 that's certainly feasible with something like eclipse; it parses the code into a structured form as you type 19:30:23 do any of you see s expressions as a hinderance? 19:30:29 sykopomp: well, there are structural editor generators. You give them the grammar of your language, and they build a structural editor for it. 19:30:51 Fade: The only hindrance is that some people seem to get hives when they even think about them. 19:31:10 besides the phobia, I don't see any hindrance, and that's purely subjective. 19:31:11 Fade: s-expressions are the reason I can't spend too long away from lisp. 19:31:17 sykopomp: the funny thing, is that you could write one that would use the same keybinding as lisp to edit code. 19:31:38 pjb: for emacs? Nice. 19:31:39 sykopomp: you would type (sin (+ 1 x)) and it would produce sin(1+x); 19:32:02 that would be...annoying 19:32:04 sykopomp: I don't remember if anything for emacs exists. Perhaps around cedet? 19:32:06 indeed 19:32:24 There is no parenthesis in Lisp! 19:32:28 in any case, my interest in using something with C-like syntax is pretty low. 19:32:39 I get quite frustrated at this point when I'm forced into languages with more conventional attributes. 19:32:41 Parenthesis are only "editor" keys to structure lisp code. 19:33:05 same as python semicolons 19:33:12 but looking much better... 19:33:32 I personally love parens 19:33:50 there's SFRI-49 19:34:03 yeah, parens ftw 19:34:08 nus: oh no, was that the indent syntax proposal? :) 19:34:17 dlowe: do you mind me ripping off your function for some GPL code? 19:34:32 btbngr, so called I-expressions 19:34:42 krzysz00: nope 19:34:54 nus: those look pretty terrible. 19:34:57 dlowe: thank you 19:35:14 nus: yeah, i was never very comfortable with that idea. 19:35:39 nus: that's short for Ick-expressions 19:38:12 they look alien and sparse 19:38:29 -!- ef [~ihk@m83-185-26-86.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:28 it feels like the expressions might fall on the floor, not wrapped in parens. 19:40:17 Hm. Without sexps, it may be more straightforward to add special syntax to differentiate macros from functions. 19:40:40 ef [~ihk@m83-185-36-172.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:41:13 and then there's the issue of doing math. 19:41:39 I'm really reaching for reasons to use heavy syntax, I guess. 19:41:56 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:24 *p_l* had seen actual I-expressions 19:42:43 What're those? O_o 19:42:52 iExpressions? 19:43:01 Odin-: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html 19:43:05 no, "indent-expressions" ... remove parens 19:43:05 it's the new, hip thing. 19:43:18 p_l: Lisp-as-Python? 19:43:23 actually ViaWeb used those 19:43:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTML 19:43:58 p_l: Viaweb, please. pg hated wackycaps. 19:43:58 The editor maintains the code's s-expression structure automatically, and visually represents it in the web interface using indentation instead of Lisp's parentheses. 19:44:18 *Xach* got it wrong in Taste for the Web and got a correcting note 19:44:22 Xach: I don't really care about his opinion... he hated CLOS, he gets wackycaps :P 19:44:51 btbngr: That's almost scary. 19:45:28 that seems to be the consensus :) 19:45:58 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:31 Kinda looks like what people are afraid Python does to your code. O_o 19:48:43 well, Python and Haskell pull the indent-based stuff well, but they are designed for it 19:53:31 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:45 Yes. 19:53:57 Using indentation to structure lists doesn't seem a good idea. 19:54:12 -!- johanlindberg [~johanlind@81-234-18-19-o286.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:17 But for Python, sensing whitespace works remarkably well. 19:54:29 (When you're not running against spaces-versus-tabs bullshit.) 19:54:47 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:55:22 abhaya, Fade: http://racket-lang.org/new-name.html 19:56:00 Great, racket kibo appears. 19:56:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 19:56:37 Fade: And if it's annoying to random people, consider that we've been investing a ton of work on the new name, so there must be some good reasons. 19:56:46 Xach: Did I come in to flame you in any way? 19:57:00 Or does it look like I'm about to?> 19:58:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:21 i like drscheme; it's an impressive system. 19:59:58 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 20:00:06 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:00:09 but arbitrary mid-stream name changes are kind of 'meh'. 20:00:43 they bring confusion, that's for sure 20:01:12 they're just trying to be more hip, is all. 20:01:18 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 TDT` [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:33 'PLT' is for squares. You gotta get with all these hip languages like Python and Ruby. 20:01:56 and stop calling yourself Scheme, of course. 20:02:13 -!- TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:40 Please, don't encourage eli to think there's a reason to stay here fixing all your terrible misconceptions. 20:03:00 sorry. This is all offtopic anyway. :) 20:03:00 The name change was far more involved than an arbitrary decision, and required much more work than whatever would be justified to be "hip". 20:03:11 *Xach* too late 20:03:19 Xach: sorry again :( 20:03:19 Xach: So far you're the one flaming me, three times now, for no apparent reason. 20:03:28 hrmn 20:03:32 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:43 well, this isn't what I expected as outcome from an offhand comment. 20:03:55 btw, on a totally unrelated note 20:03:58 "someone's wrong on the internet" 20:03:59 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:07 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-119-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:04:09 how does guile stack next to PLT? 20:04:32 (Fade: me neither -- I had no intention to do anything beyond that link, which explains things as well as we could make it.) 20:04:34 I've always wondered why everyone was using PLT and nobody ever mentions guile 20:04:43 bozhidar: see #scheme 20:04:44 thanks for the link. 20:04:52 maybe PLT has a richer standard library or something? 20:05:46 rme: maybe I should 20:05:49 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-252-73.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:00 totally forgot about it 20:07:33 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:58 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:10:34 Guile is the victim of the supposed "Lisp as extension language" thing in GNOME, nearly no one used it :P 20:10:59 p_l: that's inconcievable. It's the *official* GNU extension language. Obviously every GNU project is using it 20:11:28 Especially Emacs. 20:11:42 didn't guile recently grow a compiler? 20:12:05 Fade: you make it sound like a disease. 20:12:08 like a tumor or something. 20:12:11 as the GNU coding standards say, "using Guile is very important for the overall consistency of the GNU system" 20:12:17 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.224] has joined #lisp 20:12:39 hi folks. anyone want to see a new lisp game video? this time in HD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsEEcrV8Qc8 20:12:45 right next to where they say you should only ever write programs in C. 20:12:47 uhh, does anybody still read gnu coding standards? 20:12:58 nus: some people do, quite unfortunately 20:13:12 i read the general gnu ones and also the special elisp ones. 20:13:32 foom: GNU is inconsistent 20:13:32 sykopomp: that was not my intention. :) 20:13:34 nus: and GCC and GDB developers still follow the guidelines on how to write the most useless commit messages ever, *MOST* unfortunately. 20:13:55 Fade: I found it amusing. 20:16:19 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:59 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:02 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:21:11 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:56 lichtblau: Are you going to make a hemlock change for ewouldblock/eagain? 20:23:12 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:27 *luis* stumbles across UFFI 2.0, with foreign encoding support. 20:23:34 Interesting. 20:24:30 luis: Did anyone submit a bug report about cffi-uffi-compat not working any more? 20:24:53 (defmacro string-to-octets (str &key encoding ...) (declare (ignorable encoding)) ...) ; in typical UFFI style :) 20:25:01 I thought uffi is obsolete. 20:25:38 Xach: not yet 20:25:47 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:53 luis: Sorry about that. I thought it was a known issue. 20:26:04 luis: D: why?! 20:26:26 why is that a macro :\ 20:26:53 sykopomp: UFFI's APIs are pretty much all macros 20:27:05 Reav_ [~Sarge@41.221.87.249] has joined #lisp 20:27:28 luis: does it try to do everything on literals or something? 20:27:31 at compile time? 20:27:40 at ILC2009, one of the lightning talks was about a language that was composed entirely of macros 20:27:55 Xach: ultimately I will, once I update iolib and get the chance to test the change. 20:28:15 sykopomp: no. But that's a tiny detail compared to ignoring the encoding argument. 20:28:22 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has left #lisp 20:30:35 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:12 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f85c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:32:42 ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:33 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:33:45 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-58-28.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 20:33:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 hum. 20:37:27 Hmm, could you tell me your approximate download rates for http://archive.quicklisp.org/snmp.tgz vs http://dist.quicklisp.org/snmp.tgz ? 20:37:44 *Fare* releases ASDF 2.004, and wonders how much pressure to put on vendors to upgrade. 20:38:06 Xach: how goes quicklisp? 20:39:10 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:32 Hello all. 20:39:45 hi nyef 20:39:52 Xach: 4.02 MB/s and 3.56 MB/s respectively. 20:40:06 Xach: 2.31M/s on archive, 2.32M/s on dist. 20:40:23 Does anyone happen to know what the difference is between :save-p t and :save-p :compute-only is for a VOP definition? 20:40:37 At UMontreal: 3.9 on archive and 2.3 on dist 20:40:39 -!- btbngr [~Matt@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:41:00 nyef: :save-p :compute-only only makes sure everything has a spill slot, without inserting code to spill in/out around the VOP. 20:41:14 (I'm in minneapolis right now) 20:41:23 *nyef* winces. 20:41:55 So, static-functions are callee-register-preserving? 20:41:59 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 20:42:18 Xach: 305 KB/s & 273 KB/s (on home connection) 20:42:19 Xach: 2M/s and 1.5M/s, in France 20:43:22 Xach: (on a 1.2Gbit shared link in NL) 1.94 MB/s & 1.75 MB/s 20:43:34 (shell server) 20:43:42 .eu versus .us? 20:44:01 Hrm. Scratch that, not thinking straight. 20:45:11 It's the static-functions that are tail-called by assembly-routines that are register-preserving. 20:45:54 Okay, I see why this works now. 20:46:07 -!- ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:36 <_3b`> Xach: 1.76M archive, 638k dist 20:47:07 Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 Hi guys 20:47:36 If the assembly-routine -can- tail-call, it specifies both (:save-p t) and (:save-p :compute-only), and some principle settles the discrepancy. 20:47:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:03 Thanks. 20:49:13 Fare: It is radical 20:49:42 Fare: what's new with ASDF? 20:49:44 what's rad? 20:50:09 Xach: ~25 MB/s for archive, ~10 MB/s for dist 20:50:24 luis: university ? 20:50:29 sykopomp: see the changelog http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/asdf/asdf.git - 2.004 is same 2.111 20:50:43 heh, luis wins 20:51:21 fe[nl]ix: Linode 20:51:22 <_3b`> 2.9M/2.1M from my web host 20:51:47 Fare: I have a structure I'm happy with, and now I am filling in the pieces. 20:51:59 Fare: the unknown parts are shrinking rapidly. 20:52:59 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:13 luis: that is a lot of MBs 20:53:37 Fare: I hope to have something to show for the meeting 20:55:12 Xach: the server is in New Jersey, I think. 20:55:14 Xach: wonderful! 20:55:18 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:22 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-16-182.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:30 luis: was this with linode? 20:56:35 nyef: do you happen to know how to debug VirtualAlloc failures in wine? 20:56:41 sykopomp: Yes. 20:56:52 luis: your server's still faster than mine! 20:57:28 nyef: I'm looking at /proc/$(pidof sbcl.exe)/maps as usual, but can't explain why wine 1.2 doesn't want to map read only space. 20:57:32 Xach: has asdf 2.0 proven useful / harmful ? 20:57:59 lichtblau, you run sbcl for windows under wine? 20:57:59 nyef: it works with wine 1.0, and since SBCL is full of INT 3, I don't know how to use winedbg with it. 20:58:51 Fare: I'm trying to, now that Dmitry's changes allow it to work in wine at all for the first time. 20:58:52 Qt Hemlock mostly works, so that's something. 20:59:22 -!- copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:59:24 lichtblau: I'm afraid I haven't the slightest idea... but you might be interested in the UD2-breakpoint feature, I think it was. 21:00:17 Ah. :ud2-breakpoints. 21:00:35 ah, interesting 21:00:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 21:00:50 Throw that on ctf, build, and it should stop using int3 instructions. 21:01:01 -!- Sikander [~soemraws@5356ECA7.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:24 (This was in support of trace :encapsulate nil on darwin, which still doesn't work.) 21:02:28 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:44 asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.6] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75749d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has joined #lisp 21:05:14 Ogedei [~user@e178193206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 So, I -still- haven't managed to get my GC issues sorted out, though I'm starting to run low on parts of the system that I am aware are ignoring various GC invariants. 21:07:52 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-27-130.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:13 Xach: the patches to cl-zmq and cl-redis were applied upstream. thanks for the notice :) 21:10:56 peterbb [~peterbb@67.200.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:13:32 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:33 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:13:33 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:14:11 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:34 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-99-216.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178193206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 21:21:15 Odin-` [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 21:22:35 Xach: new video blogpost :) 21:23:07 -!- Reav_ [~Sarge@41.221.87.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25:02 Gumug [~Gumug@64.134.168.246] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 Fare: I am bouncing around between implementation tasks and haven't revisited asdf2 yet. i'll let you know if I run into any sad issues or happy successes. 21:28:08 Xach: thanks. 21:28:23 (if you use it, try upgrading to 2.004 first) 21:28:48 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-224-186.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:32:34 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-99-216.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:32:34 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:49 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:08 -!- Odin-` [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Quit: Yes, it works.] 21:40:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75749d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:04 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:05 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-71.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 21:47:24 AndrewNTH [~andy@unaffiliated/andrewnth] has joined #lisp 21:47:28 -!- AndrewNTH [~andy@unaffiliated/andrewnth] has left #lisp 21:47:38 Fare: What's new in 2.004? 21:47:44 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:49 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:48:06 rtoym: various minor bug fixes 21:48:25 rtoym, worth committing, since they fix cases seen in the wild 21:48:49 Ok. I'll get it updated. 21:49:46 two minor bugs in error handling of compile-file* (one in a non-standard configuration, one when the compile fails) 21:51:08 two minor improvements for ECL and ABCL respectively 21:51:33 2.107: add optional argument to ensure-source-registry 21:51:36 mindCrime [~chatzilla@eth0-2.nmd.four.lax.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:44 2.110: add clear-system 21:51:59 2.111: fix bug in locating system configuration 21:52:13 use /etc/common-lisp/ as documented instead of /etc/ (oops) 21:54:35 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:58 *rtoym* can't seem to remember where he put his asdf2 repo. 21:57:53 -!- copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has quit [] 22:00:47 should be easy enough to clone -- make sure you use the release branch though 22:03:43 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:57 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:58 Hmm, 2.004 = 2.111? 22:09:46 "2.004: blessing 2.111 as the new release." 22:09:48 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:11:29 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:11:36 this reminds me of how trains are numbered, heh. 22:11:44 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [K-Lined] 22:11:52 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:13:09 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:42 luis: Oh? 22:16:07 dfox [~dfox@e80.dkm.cz] has joined #lisp 22:16:53 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:17:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:52 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:28 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:24:57 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.127.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:24 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:28:12 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-91962.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:28:59 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:55 TR2N [email@89.180.153.197] has joined #lisp 22:38:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:40 -!- Gumug [~Gumug@64.134.168.246] has quit [Quit: Gumug] 22:40:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:58 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 22:47:06 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:48 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:51 luis: yeah, the version numbering scheme seems like a strange relic 22:57:24 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:49 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 23:02:09 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 23:14:57 marvel_ [~marvel@unaffiliated/marvel] has joined #lisp 23:18:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:20:00 -!- marvel_ is now known as marvel 23:29:25 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Quit: sellout] 23:30:37 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:33:51 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:34:35 TR2N` [email@89.180.153.197] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:48 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.153.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:49 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:11 elliotstern [~chatzilla@c-71-58-90-255.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:32 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 23:37:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:38:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:39:15 Fare: Do you think I could get you to add #+cmu (ext:file-comment "$Header$") near the top of asdf.lisp? 23:41:38 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:42:08 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:11 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:28 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:45:43 What's a good way to make a simple memoize macro? Something that you use in place of defun to declare a memoized function. I've seen and understand the memoization example in On Lisp, but that's a function that returns a lambda'd up memoized version. How should I macroize that? 23:46:48 There are examples out there, I'm sure. 23:47:09 that's easy, just expand to a defun 23:47:36 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:43 cmucl has a defun-cached. 23:48:03 Well, should the function to memoize go into a lambda, or should I defun it as some gensym'd symbol? 23:49:39 And how should I keep track of the cache? (defvar ,gensymedvar (make-hash))? 23:49:56 you use closures 23:50:03 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:50:29 you've seen the example in On Lisp, after all 23:52:04 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:44 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:52:46 well, it will expand out to a defun, right? You can't make the cache at macro-expansion time, so it would have to be something in the expanded out code, right? 23:53:46 And you can't do (let ((foo 10)) (defun bar () foo)), can you? 23:53:56 Of course you can. 23:53:57 sure you can 23:54:22 it's strange as the defun is no longer a top level form though 23:57:02 elliotstern: you could also use load-time-value. 23:57:03 [1]> (let ((x 10)) (defun foo () x)) 23:57:05 FOO 23:57:06 [2]> foo 23:57:08 I tried that before I posted. I just noticed I accidentally typed "foo" instead of "(foo)", and feel like an idiot now. 23:57:17 That makes it quite a bit easier 23:58:10 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-73-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:20 Would it be better to keep the passed in function in a lambda, or to defun it into a gensymed variable? Or is that not really a big performance concern? 23:58:48 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:01 elliotstern: it's a macro, you have the function as an s-expression.