00:12:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:14:52 dto: any kind of game accepted? 00:21:27 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:27:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-250.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:00 dto: sweet 00:31:21 -!- lusory [~bart@bb116-15-51-68.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:47 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:23 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-102-44.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:35:40 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:36:05 -!- Edward_ [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-13-78.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:38:43 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 00:38:56 baddog [~user@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:39:08 -!- baddog is now known as Guest10385 00:39:53 -!- Guest10385 [~user@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:39:53 Guest10385 [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 00:40:02 -!- Guest10385 is now known as baddog` 00:53:04 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.215] has joined #lisp 00:59:13 abqar_ [~abqar_@122x220x64x254.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:59:20 -!- Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.21.84] has quit [] 01:00:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:08 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:13 -!- [mzm] [~ziggy@de2-as23404.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:48 what in the wide wide world of sports is this expression doing? (format t "~5~~S" 'foobar) => ~~~~~FOOBAR 01:10:02 <_3b> clhs ~~ 01:10:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cae.htm 01:10:38 <_3b> that with 5 as the first argument, then ~s, which prints the symbol FOOBAR 01:10:40 bytecolor: ~~ prints tildes, ~5~ prints five of them, and ~s prints foorbar 01:11:26 oh, I see. I'm just tring to pad the front of a string, programatically, I think I can use ~V somehow, but cant figure it out 01:12:06 Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728509.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:12:21 ... slyrus, did you break the build on win32? 01:14:33 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728247.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:24:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:25:39 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:30 antoszka [~antoszka@apn-77-115-30-64.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 01:27:09 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@apn-77-115-30-64.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Changing host] 01:27:09 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 01:27:38 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-230-230.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:38 <_3b> hmm, M-. for parenscript code wasn't exactly what i was supposed to be working on :/ 01:32:05 fatalnix_ [~fatalnix@pool-64-222-237-217.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:33 okay, I am seeing this said both ways, but does Lisp stand for List Processor or Lisp Processing? 01:32:43 Actually, it stands for RETCON. 01:32:55 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 01:32:57 (Or BACKRONYM.) 01:33:30 ..? 01:33:52 just go with list processing ;) 01:34:05 lol 01:34:34 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 dysinger [~dysinger@host131.72.248.64.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:45 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:24 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:37 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:37:10 thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:46 <_3b> does M-. not normally work on things evaluated with C-M-x ? 01:39:37 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:56 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:03 agnathan [~daniel@c-71-59-136-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:39 _3b: Probably not, as C-M-x is more of an "eval" than a "compile", isn't it? 01:45:04 <_3b> yeah, doesn't mean there isn't a location associated with the form though :) 01:45:05 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has joined #lisp 01:45:31 *_3b* mostly just wanted to make sure it was that way before i started hacking at things though 01:45:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:45:34 But that's just it, there probably -isn't-. 01:46:14 <_3b> a location in a buffer i mean 01:47:11 <_3b> which slime seems to be happy with using for M-. 01:47:20 Source-location information seems to be managed on a per-file basis. 01:47:35 <_3b> but it doesn't seem to send that info with eval requests, so i can't store it and send it back 01:47:44 The compile-defun thing seems to export the defun to a file and compile that. 01:48:12 (I don't know how the mapping from a random filename to the correct file works, though.) 01:48:52 <_3b> it sends a real filename which somehow overrides the temp filename i think 01:49:47 Mmm... Probably using with-compilation-unit or similar? 01:50:09 <_3b> so for example it knows a defun compiled with C-c C-c in *slime-scratch* is in (:buffer "*slime-scratch*") 01:50:34 source-location-for-xref-data 01:50:45 <_3b> seems like it would be reasonble to do the same for eval requests 01:51:16 <_3b> (or at least have the option of doing that, dunno if any real lisps would have anywhere to store it) 01:51:42 Oh, I remember what I was doing when I got distracted. I wanted to find that parameter for emacs to make vertical-split windows wrap normally instead of scroll when you go off the right edge. 01:53:54 asarch [~asarch@189.188.145.217] has joined #lisp 01:54:02 nyef: what is `wrap normally' 01:54:03 *_3b* should probably stop being distracted by M-. stuff 01:54:16 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-230-230.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 01:54:45 Normally, when I enter a long line of text, it wraps back to the left when I run off the end to the right. 01:55:00 Hunh. 01:55:09 Looks like it's a quirk of org-mode? 01:55:18 Not doing it in the scratch buffer, at least. 01:56:16 nyef: So, you +want+ the wrap in org-mode? 01:56:25 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-230-230.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:28 Yes. 01:56:35 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-230-230.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:56:38 <_3b> M-x toggle-truncate-lines ? 01:57:03 *nyef* tries. 01:57:08 <_3b> or truncate-partial-width-windows i guess for split windows 01:57:30 _3b: don't think so 01:58:06 <_3b> depends on if you mean soft wrap or hard wrap though 01:58:36 Looks like it's doing what I want now, more or less. 01:58:37 Thanks. 01:59:13 _3b: looks like it was t-t-l 01:59:51 nyef is apparently one of those that is easily satisfied by emacs line wrapping behaviour :P 02:00:36 <_3b> ok with me too for most stuff, i tend to hard wrap it myself anyway :p 02:00:41 I just don't like the experience of the entire buffer shifting -left- by some amount when I'm in the middle of typing something that I'm just going to M-q anyway. 02:01:05 Since sorting it out afterwards is a few keystrokes, and breaks my train of though. 02:01:07 thought. 02:01:14 I still prefer longlines-mode :0 02:01:19 To each their own. 02:02:03 <_3b> yeah, i could see that or toggle-word-wrap being useful for some things 02:04:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:26 _3b: I like longlines-mode for working with regexps cause i can store certain files as large chunks of text without running into multiline match problems. 02:11:46 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|smoking 02:13:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:15:27 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.0.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:15:31 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.128] has joined #lisp 02:18:28 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:20:19 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:21 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:29:21 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:29:42 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:42 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:43 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:36:43 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:37:12 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:37:43 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-174-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:53 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:01 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.208] has joined #lisp 02:43:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:46:11 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.208] has joined #lisp 02:47:31 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:57 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:23 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:48:33 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:21 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:52:47 -!- thunk|smoking is now known as thunk 02:55:44 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|smoking-ag 02:55:59 -!- thunk|smoking-ag is now known as thunk|smkn-agn 02:56:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 02:57:09 drewc: still here? 02:58:41 minion: memo for drewc: How far along is your cl-org-mode as a replacement for my homebrewn documentation stuff? 03:01:27 tcr: have you seen clod ? 03:02:16 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 03:02:17 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:04 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.236] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:06:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:07:46 -!- thunk|smkn-agn is now known as thunk 03:08:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:46 p_l|backup: nope, by whom? 03:12:36 lpolzer__ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-217-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:00 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:38 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:15:43 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 03:16:43 -!- lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-222-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18:18 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:24 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:30 I forgot, is ASDF smart enough to fullfill transitive dependencies in (:file  :depends-on )? Or do I have to, say, speciffy dependency on "package" again and again? 03:18:33 http://bitbucket.org/eeeickythump/clod 03:18:57 tcr: you mean will it compile dependencies of dependencies? 03:20:09 if "foo" depends-on "package", and I specify "bar" to depend-on "foo", it surely will recompile "bar" if I change "package" because "foo" will be recompiled? 03:21:38 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:42 Is it a build-dependency or a load-dependency, or does ASDF not make the distinction? 03:22:58 I don't think it does, and if you have to be extra clever which I'm not :-) 03:22:59 nyef: I don't think it makes a distinction, and I think it will recompile all three in this case 03:23:34 anyway, howdy nyef; what interesting bits are you hacking on these days? 03:24:03 SockPupCameOn [~UsedSockP@adsl-76-212-168-9.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:20 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:24:53 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:57 toast-prime [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:44 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:44 -!- toast-prime is now known as toast` 03:26:53 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:30:09 tcr: Still PPC threading, random SBCL bugs, etc. 03:31:25 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:30 <_3b> figuring out the location of code currently being compiled is hard :/ 03:36:20 Haha you looking into swank-sbcl.lisp? 03:36:31 <_3b> a bit 03:36:55 It's a big mess, needs a reorganization I always waited for sbcl 1.1 03:36:58 <_3b> trying to figure out how to tell ps where ps functions/macros are 03:37:25 why does it not work out-of-the-box? 03:37:36 tcr: I'm still hoping for SBCL 1.1 in December this year. 03:37:54 nyef: Maybe you could do the no-compiler-note-if-return-type-is-declared thingie? 03:38:04 <_3b> hmm, actually, i wonder if the lambdas have enough info that i could ask them for locations 03:38:11 ... It's not in my queue, but maybe. 03:38:41 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:43 <_3b> problem so far is that they aren't really functions/macros from CLs point of view (or aren't the ones CL thinks they are) 03:38:59 nyef: sorry about the win32 build! 03:39:06 _3b: See in sbcl's bugtracker about user-specified source-locations 03:39:11 so uh. How do applications usually find system fonts, anyway? 03:39:35 _3b: that's The Right Path for you, I'd guess 03:40:20 <_3b> tcr: doesn't sound like it, i'll look though 03:40:22 oops, wrong channel! 03:40:39 slyrus__: Meh. It happens. And it's not like anyone actually -tests- these things (or we'd have heard about it well before entering freeze, as opposed to well into the freeze period). 03:42:58 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:44:35 I assume we'll hold the release for a fix? 03:44:52 I have no idea at this point. 03:47:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:48:36 <_3b> tcr: not seeing anything, i think what i want is just to be able to ask about more details of current location during compilation, so i can store it myself 03:48:38 marioxcc` [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 03:48:39 hi 03:49:20 ¿do you think it's really worth the additional space of (CLASS-SLOT INSTACE) againsing (SLOT-of INSTANCE)? 03:49:23 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@host131.72.248.64.conversent.net] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 03:50:11 *_3b* has something close enough for now though, back to what i'm supposed to be working on 03:51:15 well, another question 03:51:22 i need to iterate a list 03:51:28 some elements will be dropped 03:51:32 others will stay 03:51:38 ¿what is the more elegant form to do so? 03:51:47 (loop for element in list when (test element) collect element) 03:51:51 Use a LOOP with COLLECT. 03:52:10 ok :) 03:52:13 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:52:14 or perhaps remove-if-not. 03:52:55 ¿is remove-if-not a loop keyword? 03:52:58 ,clhs remove-if-not 03:53:06 hmm? 03:53:11 it's a function 03:53:12 !clhs remove-if-not 03:53:27 nevermind, i will look it manually 03:53:35 *p_l|backup* decides to try writing a web framework that says big "f*ck you" to nice urls and "back" button - JS UI all the way :) 03:53:45 clhs remove-if-not 03:53:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 03:53:48 oh 03:53:49 lol 03:56:07 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:19 hmm 03:56:21 clhs says 03:56:22 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for says. 03:56:28 "The functions delete-if-not and remove-if-not are deprecated." 03:56:40 is there a real reason to avoid using them? 03:56:41 That deprecation is deprecated. 03:56:48 i'm guessing so 03:57:06 i found them usefull, i wonder why they are marked as deprecated 03:57:13 marioxcc`: no-one released new ANSI CL version, so they didn't ever get around to dropping them 03:57:15 No, that deprecation was silly. 03:57:16 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:21 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:24 ok :) 03:57:26 (and yes, it's silly) 03:57:47 yeah 03:57:57 thanks for your help guys 03:58:02 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:03 *marioxcc`* returns back to the hack 04:00:18 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:41 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:20 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:06:26 tired of niggers? 04:06:30 sick of their monkeyshines? 04:06:33 check out our site 04:06:41 c h i m p o u t . c o m / fo r um 04:06:59 drewc: around? 04:09:32 -!- SockPupCameOn is now known as CuMmYeYeZ 04:09:53 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:53 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 04:15:28 CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:15:28 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 04:15:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:15:42 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b *!*@adsl-76-212-168-9.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net 04:15:57 -!- CuMmYeYeZ [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Zhivago (Elsewhere) 04:16:04 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 04:16:23 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:30 -!- chee is now known as MrElendig 04:16:36 -!- MrElendig is now known as chee 04:20:22 Good morning! 04:20:32 :D 04:20:39 don't remind me! 04:20:39 hi beach 04:20:43 it's night here 04:20:59 beach: good mornin' 04:23:11 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 04:25:12 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 04:26:52 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:29:23 thanks Zhivago 04:32:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:43 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:34:52 -!- kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:52 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|smoking 04:38:13 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:38:39 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:40 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.189.147.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:42 knobo`` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:40:12 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-50-8.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:40:22 Snamich [~Snamich@166.189.147.49] has joined #lisp 04:42:40 -!- knobo` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:43:26 knobo``` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:43:46 -!- knobo`` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:25 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:44:29 morning 04:48:23 -!- thunk|smoking is now known as thunk 04:48:43 knobo```` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:13 -!- knobo``` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:23 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:05 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:33 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.165.150] has left #lisp 04:57:16 hello splittist 04:57:25 -!- MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:10 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:07:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 05:08:05 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet486.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 05:08:29 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:10:21 -!- setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:15 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:27 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:29 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:12:34 is there a way to pass the body of a macro through without wrapping it in `(progn ,@body) for instance? 05:13:21 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.145.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:39 bytecolor: Sure, just use body. But the result might not be what you want. 05:14:08 beach: I was wondering about that body is a list, no? so id get a list on output? 05:15:09 the macro just wraps body in some code if a condition is met, otherwise it should do nothing, but `(progn ,@body) is the only way I could see to pass body through. 05:15:15 bytecolor: Yes. Try it! (defmacro bla (&body body) body) (macroexpand-1 '(bla hello there)) or something like that. 05:17:02 yup, I get a list. So I'm assuming progn is required. 05:17:12 bytecolor: No, it is not. 05:17:25 (bla 1+ 4) => 4 05:17:35 er, 5 05:17:49 -!- knobo```` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:19:51 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kqvgtfxiutbfkcln] has joined #lisp 05:21:15 bytecolor: speaking of a recursive macro? 05:21:31 -!- fatalnix_ [~fatalnix@pool-64-222-237-217.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #lisp 05:22:43 tcr: no, just writing a trace macro for my parser 05:23:43 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-124-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:59 (labels ((ident (with-trace 'ident (op@ [a-z] (op* [a-zA-Z0-9_])))))) 05:26:00 so with-trace test if a symbol is bound, and wraps the op@ in some trace cd that indents. If it isnt bound I'd just want op@ to pass through 05:26:31 I see how beach is doing that, bit dont think I can use it 05:27:21 *missing () after the first ident 05:27:27 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:28:29 <_3b> bytecolor: maybe you only want to add the progn if (length body) > 1 ? 05:30:25 <_3b> and when length = 1, just return (car body) or something? 05:31:03 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:32:21 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.189.147.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:33:25 hrm, that would work as long as I give the macro a single list, but not for (with-trace 'foo (this ...) (that...)) 05:34:04 so there probably is a way to implement ,@, bah 05:34:28 I'm already in macro hell. But it's a fun kinda hell ;) 05:34:28 <_3b> you can't return multiple forms from a progn 05:34:43 <_3b> *from a macro 05:34:45 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet486.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:54 nod 05:35:11 <_3b> what is wrong with adding the progn? 05:35:12 woosh 05:36:05 I have a defcstruct's slot definition like (foo :uint8 :count 6), so it's a foreign octet array of length 6 05:36:08 _3b: nothing really, just added code. But I'm not sure how the compiler handles a progn, so all this hand waving could be for nothing. 05:36:16 I now want to convert a ptr to that to a lisp vector; how do I do that? 05:36:39 there's convert-from-foreign which takes a ptr and the cffi type; but what's the type corresponding to the slot definition above? 05:36:41 <_3b> bytecolor: any compiler that cares about extra PROGNs should be replaced :p 05:36:47 progn is how you return multiple forms from a macro. 05:37:07 CL specifies that stuff in a progn at the top-level is at the top-level. 05:37:20 bytecolor: It's not necessarily easy. Progn does not allow declarations, and even if you expand to locally instead, declarations in there would be free, not bound 05:37:38 So (progn (defun a () ...) (defun b () ...)) is the same as (defun a () ...) (defun b () ...) 05:37:57 Most user-written macros are broken / do not care about declarations because it's painful to get right 05:38:03 tcr: Isn't that covered by the top-level clause? 05:38:21 (progn (declaim ...) (declaim ...)) 05:38:30 Zhivago: that's not true either, that equivalence 05:38:40 What's not true? 05:38:44 I mean in the case of defuns it is but not generally :-) 05:38:50 If progn appears as a top level form, then all forms within that progn are considered by the compiler to be top level forms. 05:38:55 Looks pretty bloody general to me. 05:39:14 (progn (eval-when  (require :foo)) (Defun bar (x) (foo:frob x))) won't work 05:39:23 as multiple toplevel forms it will 05:39:32 Snamich [~Snamich@166.132.72.182] has joined #lisp 05:40:23 this macro will be expanded within the forms of labels functions 05:40:24 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 05:40:36 Anyway, anyone with cffi-fu around to answer my question? :-) 05:40:42 Sounds like a violation of the standard if it doesn't. 05:40:51 bytecolor: Then what's the problem with progn? 05:41:04 Zhivago: none I suppose! ;) 05:41:09 Hurrah. 05:42:35 If the form is a progn form, each of its body forms is sequentially processed as a top level form in the same processing mode. <- Due to this, your eval-when example should be the same in both cases. 05:42:44 If it isn't, then your implementation sounds broken to me. 05:43:33 to be processed it has to be READ in first 05:43:52 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:44:02 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:29 Ok, I see your point there. 05:44:49 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 05:46:25 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:47:16 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:31 -!- agnathan [~daniel@c-71-59-136-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:57 Ah, a beautifully indented trace of the parse 05:50:58 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:01 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:19 -!- bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.73.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:54:25 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:39 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.129] has joined #lisp 05:55:25 Hun [~hun@95-89-68-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:00:24 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:02:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:03:50 -!- abqar_ [~abqar_@122x220x64x254.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:11:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:12:52 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-137-141.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:14:42 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:17:14 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-32-218.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 06:17:19 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.109] has joined #lisp 06:18:41 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:32 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:21:57 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:22:10 timor [~timor@port-92-195-118-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:22:57 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.109] has joined #lisp 06:23:16 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.109] has left #lisp 06:27:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-118-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:00 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:32:28 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-134.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:33:36 -!- argiopeweb_ [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:45 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728509.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 06:34:53 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 06:40:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:41:18 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:22 Good morning! 06:44:46 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-50-8.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:45:45 hello lispers 06:46:10 why do I have unsupported DOCUMENTATION: type T for object of type SB-PCL::CONDITION-DIRECT-SLOT-DEFINITION ? 06:49:17 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 06:49:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:50:06 hello mvilleneuve 06:50:28 *spiaggia* goes to a meeting. 06:50:48 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-119.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:51:12 good morning 06:51:27 -!- baddog` [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:24 -!- HDurer [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:37 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:25 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:02:20 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-68-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:35 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:06 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:27 I'm going to publish my projects on gitorious. Can you tell me which license should I put http://www.wingstech.it/git?p=clonsigna.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/commands.lisp;hb=HEAD ? 07:06:34 is it MIT ? 07:06:44 or BSD ? 07:07:56 I think it's BSD can you confirm ? 07:08:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:09:00 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-116-185.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [] 07:09:38 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.72] has joined #lisp 07:11:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:14:48 hello madnificent 07:14:54 kiuma: i am no expert but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses would I say that it is a modified BSD license 07:15:06 2-clause license ("Simplified BSD License" or "FreeBSD License") 07:15:11 is the license 07:15:26 ok 07:15:28 thx 07:15:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:01 I'll choose BSD license from the combo then 07:18:20 fiveop [~fiveop@e179160116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:15 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:18 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:22:19 xan_ [~xan@chello213047069075.1.13.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:23:33 kiuma: preferably I'd go with either MIT or BSD 07:23:51 don't go with GPL please ;_; 07:24:08 p_l|backup, of course :) 07:24:41 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:24:45 GPL is the best, you're all sick 07:25:16 p_l|backup, to you like the generated API (as for version 0.0.1 of the generator :) ) http://www.wingstech.it/kiuma/clonsigna/clonsigna.html 07:25:34 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:26:05 commercial entities really avoid GPL 07:26:26 and this is absolutely what CL doesn't need 07:26:27 No, they don't. 07:26:41 Zhivago, you are luky 07:26:47 *lucky 07:27:09 Commercial entities are usually all too happy to use GPL based stuff. 07:27:38 It just requires some clear boundaries. 07:27:52 commercial entities like Redhat and Suse and Novell and Sun, kiuma ? 07:28:42 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:29:09 If you mean Commercial Entities usually prefer LGPL to GPL, then I won't disagree. 07:29:38 no of course, like banks, LEGO, BARILLA, FedEx and so on. For what I know they have just accepted only LGPL 07:29:52 that is really different from GPL 07:30:15 kiuma: depends on whether it's internal app or something they plan on distributing outside 07:30:16 No, it's just the same if you're not linking. 07:30:59 With GPL you just need to have program level boundaries. 07:31:17 the GPL also states quite explicitly works released under it may be sold at any price. this is worth noting :3 07:31:25 For things like web servers, that's not a problem. 07:31:32 Even if it is a webapp do a company need to release the source at least under gplv3 07:32:56 i like lisp 07:33:16 kiuma: I didn't read your code in details, but I found it very clean :) 07:33:17 may I say to admin (at) common-lisp that sources will be on gitorious ? 07:33:29 galdor, thanks 07:33:32 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:45 (and seriously guys, wake up, writing a library as L?GPL is the best way to be sure that companies won't use it...) 07:34:11 galdor: You are a babbling fool. 07:34:37 yep, and I'm not a license zealot :) 07:34:41 I have to agree w/Zhiv' on that. 07:34:45 *p_l|backup* currently investigates a project that can't include any (L)GPL in the distributable part or it might "break" it 07:35:42 and does anybody know if I can customize trac as enlightenment has done on common-lisp.net? http://trac.enlightenment.org/e 07:36:33 galdor, for clonsigna I only need one more method to start clonsigna-web 07:36:44 ^^ 07:37:09 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:53 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:42:36 aw [~aw@147.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:15 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:38 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:45:32 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:45:54 ramus [~ramus@99.23.143.152] has joined #lisp 07:52:25 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:55:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:59:57 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:00:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:01:03 kiuma: what do you mean by "saying that sources will be on gitorious" ? 08:01:50 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 08:06:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:07:15 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 08:09:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@chello213047069075.1.13.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:11:10 fe[nl]ix, like iolib 08:11:35 no? 08:11:51 kiuma: like http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/iolib/iolib.git;a=summary ? 08:12:36 so I don't understand what's http://gitorious.org/iolib/iolib 08:12:46 the main repository 08:12:59 so there are two repos ? 08:13:05 no, 3 08:13:11 ah :) 08:13:12 at least 08:13:22 why ? 08:13:36 backups are good 08:14:12 :) ok 08:14:43 let's wait admin common-lisp dot net reply then :) 08:15:22 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: BBL] 08:16:47 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:46 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:22:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:24:21 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:25:35 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 08:26:47 *drewc* reads scrollback and cries a little 08:26:59 *drewc* goes to sleep 08:28:00 ok I've some work to do now :) 08:28:10 projects opened :) 08:28:30 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:29:09 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:35 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:30:58 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:31:06 troussan [~user@cpe-66-91-114-23.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:36:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:12 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has joined #lisp 08:39:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:45:59 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46:27 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:46:57 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633948.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:47:34 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:47 -!- troussan [~user@cpe-66-91-114-23.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:49 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:49:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:45 dysinger [~dysinger@host131.72.248.64.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:18 I've changed password in trac-info.txt for trac at common-lisp.net 08:50:33 when the new password will be available ? 08:50:39 *active ? 08:50:49 does anybody know ? 08:50:55 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441632.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:53:53 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:56:27 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:17 i need to fix my sbcl 08:58:34 geez, this is bad 09:03:16 johanlindberg [~johanlind@81-234-18-19-o286.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:19 -!- lpolzer__ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-217-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:07:31 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 09:12:29 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:12:48 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:12:58 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest3795 09:13:25 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:14:12 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:30 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.132.72.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:23:41 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 09:26:16 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:27:08 Edward_ [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-7-212.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:28:27 Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.62.244] has joined #lisp 09:28:45 -!- Guest3795 [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:19 hi! I'm glad to see that contrib sb-concurrency failed on x86-64-linux (:sb-threads), I've seen this on freebsd-5.4 and thought it was platform dependent.. wait.. I dont think I saw this on freebsd-7.0 (maybe that wasn't 1.0.39). 09:30:41 pkhuong__ [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:31:14 lhz: Are you on HEAD? 09:31:45 tcr: that was 1.0.39 on x86-64 09:35:31 The .39 release? 09:36:14 tcr: oh, I see you patch from 10 days ago, is that only masquerading the issue? ie.. should I test on freebsd without that patch? 09:37:52 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 09:37:52 lhz: I can safely bet that the test didn't manage to finish before deadline... 09:38:44 Ok, I'm rebuilding with sh make.sh > foo 2>&1.. hopefully it tells something useful. 09:39:10 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-109-120.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:11 -!- borism [~boris@237.80.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40:55 lhz: I'm not exactly sure whether or not it's masquerading; anyway I'd be interested to hear whether it does what it's supposed to do that is make it build on those platforms 09:41:09 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-109-120.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:43:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 09:47:17 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:17 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-0-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:48:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-45-50.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:51 -!- johanlindberg [~johanlind@81-234-18-19-o286.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:01 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:03 foo at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112025 09:57:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:49 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 10:00:06 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:06:43 a-s [~user@lixandru-ag.mediasat.ro] has joined #lisp 10:06:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:09:07 heh. github added organizations. if the sbcl dev team is thinking about switching from cvs to something this, I've namegrabbed it and am eager to share (-: 10:10:32 (so now it has achieved feature-but-not-annoyance parity with sf.net (-:) 10:11:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:19 -!- thunk|away is now known as tunk` 10:11:24 -!- tunk` is now known as thunk 10:12:07 lhz: I don't think this is HEAD 10:13:51 tcr: yes, foo is from 1.0.39. Just pasted it if you wanted to look after not known issues. 10:14:11 it's kind of known; I'm more interesting if you also get it on HEAD 10:14:25 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:14:40 antifuchs: My impression is that the majority of Lisp projects is on gitorious, not github, BICBW. 10:15:02 which makes me wonder why (: 10:16:06 anyway, just a headsup. if it isn't used, I'll release it into the wild in a few months. 10:16:09 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:38 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-194.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:10 http://genshi.edgewall.org/ is down :( 10:24:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:54 Don't know why others chose it, but gitorious feels like an actual improvement over gitweb, whereas github feels like the typical web startup page that desperately wants people to sign up, while putting an emphasis on graphical design but neglecting actual usability. 10:26:06 -!- Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.62.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:26:57 (It's 2010, do we really need a flash plugin on every project page just to copy&paste the repo url?) 10:27:22 yes! 10:27:35 otherwise how will linux users be kept away? 10:27:47 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.255] has joined #lisp 10:28:29 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:08 antifuchs: gitorious is free software, github is closed 10:30:26 gitorious also has less featueres(i.e. useless clutter) 10:30:31 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-146-248.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:19 I bet they're also open-sourcing their hdd crashes (-: 10:31:33 well, that makes a bit of sense then. 10:31:44 *_3b* likes the 'list of new CL projects' on github, couldn't find something similar on gitorious last i looked 10:32:05 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.143.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:38 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-194.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:35:11 I really like github's community features. I'm not really familiar with gitorious, I should try it someday before making caustic comments (: 10:36:52 I have to say that Github has IMHO better interface 10:38:20 (and definitely better than bitbucket, which shows changelog as the default screen - github shows last commit message, source and README, which allows fast checking of what the project is about) 10:38:52 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-146-248.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:09 Joreji [~thomas@69-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:40:09 ramus [~ramus@99.23.133.15] has joined #lisp 10:43:15 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:38 indeed. that they render a README (with markdown and stuff) is the best thing about github. easiest way of putting information about your project online that I know. 10:49:01 Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.23.233] has joined #lisp 10:54:49 lichtblau: i count 36 CL projects on github and 1 on gitorious 10:55:15 *Xach* must be missing something 10:55:49 *_3b* counts ~1100 and 40 or so respectively 10:56:26 ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.133.220] has joined #lisp 10:56:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:53 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.133.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:56:54 <_3b> well, that is 'lisp' on gitorious 10:56:56 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:25 okay, I take it back, too. 10:57:27 <_3b> 'common lisp' hits 16, but not everything is tagged usefully 10:57:29 I'm counting 9 on github and 6 on gitorious. :-) 10:57:51 which six? the only one i have is iolib. 10:58:11 Xach: conium, prepl, hemlock, iolib, cffi, bordeaux-threads 10:58:11 <_3b> there are a lot of mirrors of random things on gitorious 10:58:40 Has cffi's main repo moved from clnet darcs to gitorious? 10:59:40 *_3b* is a fan of less darcs 10:59:50 Xach: the main repo should be http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/cffi/cffi.git;a=summary 11:00:03 luis should announce it one of these days 11:00:27 <_3b> can gitorious mirror from another repo? that is something github seems to lack 11:00:41 _3b: no 11:03:14 _3b: I've set gitorious up as my main repository, with c-l.net and repo.or.cz as mirrors 11:04:14 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:05:01 *p_l|backup* decides to redo his old TokyoCabinet project 11:09:09 xan_ [~xan@91.112.14.46] has joined #lisp 11:09:39 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 11:10:37 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 11:12:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 11:14:18 When I try to ./clbuild recompile --all-projects I get this error: Couldn't load "/home/lat/clbuild/clbuild.lisp": file does not exist. And using locate shows it isn't on the hard drive. How do I get it? 11:14:26 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.133.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:15:53 .clbuild install clbuild gives: Error: cannot download unknown project clbuild 11:16:08 ramus [~ramus@99.23.134.227] has joined #lisp 11:18:48 Blkt [~user@93-33-137-58.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:19:26 good day everyone 11:19:47 Hi Blkt 11:19:56 hi 11:20:35 we fe[nl]ix 11:21:00 hi Blkt 11:21:05 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:21:38 Edward__ [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-151.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:22:56 lat: clbuild.lisp is just a file in the clbuild darcs repo. If you've checked out clbuild from darcs, it should be there. 11:23:06 -!- Edward_ [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-7-212.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:15 Also, "recompile --all-projects" is an insane thing to even attempt to do. 11:24:55 lichtblau, why? 11:25:31 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:36 tcr: head works fine :) 11:29:22 -!- thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: http://twitter.com/thoolihan] 11:30:29 lat: the likelihood of around 255 projects (some stable and recent, some experimental, some formerly stable but ancient) all compiling perfectly is low enough. And then consider that it all happens in the same image. 11:31:55 lichtblau, pretty good reason. :>) 11:32:52 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:33:08 catnap [~terimpil@radio-65.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 11:33:48 I get "component #:CL-UTILITIES not found", when I try to use gsll - can some one help me? 11:34:06 lhz: Good to know. Hopefully it's not sweeping stuff under the carpet. 11:34:26 _3b: What was your conclusion when you looked at the sb-concurrency failings again? 11:34:35 billitch [~billitch@g225065056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:29 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:47 what was the command that describes lisp implementation? 11:40:58 catnap: "l-i-v" 11:42:06 Stupid question: if I want to install SLIME on my shell, do I also have to install sbcl there? 11:42:23 Slime is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for EMACS 11:42:34 yeah, but 11:42:35 i mean 11:42:45 _danb_ [~user@203-158-37-121.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:42:48 i want to run emacs on my local machine and SLIME on remote machine 11:42:53 I heard that I can do that :O 11:43:16 You can use SWANK, the Common Lisp part of Slime as a remote server 11:43:32 Obviously for that to run you need a CL implementation on your server 11:43:39 be it sbcl, ccl, ecl, clisp... 11:43:54 o i c 11:44:09 the guy in this video installs slime on a remote machine: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000054867 11:44:10 nptwwah 11:45:25 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.10.41] has joined #lisp 11:47:41 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.33.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:49:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225065056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:49:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:13 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:51:55 fe[nl]ix: unfortunately that didn't work 11:52:27 lisp-implementation-version 11:52:36 catnap: fuzzy completion is very useful ;) 11:53:12 catnap: you can get cl-utilities from http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-utilities/cl-utilities-latest.tar.gz 11:54:10 you'll also need: gsd cffi trivial-garbage 11:56:54 I wonder if there could be easier way to acomplish the task 11:57:11 I have been updating my lisp all day 11:57:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:39 G'morning all. 11:57:49 catnap: I'm working on a project to make it easy, but it's not nearly done. 11:57:53 catnap: would you like to try an early demo? 11:57:58 yes! 11:59:01 hi nyef 12:00:05 billitch [~billitch@g225065056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:28 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225065056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 12:01:32 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.51] has joined #lisp 12:02:17 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 12:03:00 hi nyef 12:05:06 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.18.37.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:47 <_3b> tcr: from what i could tell, the problem was that the tests assumed they could sleep for < 0.0001 sec, which isn't correct on some systems 12:07:35 <_3b> tcr: so on a system where minimum sleep granularity is 0.01 sec, the test ran for ~200x longer than intended so timed out 12:15:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:15:41 :((( http://trac.common-lisp.net/clonsigna 12:15:58 any idea ? 12:18:27 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:03 kiuma: the server can't find the .css file 12:19:37 bgum23 [~bgum23@HERTZ.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #lisp 12:20:06 fe[nl]ix, I know but it's a fresh installation 12:20:27 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:21:34 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:09 I wonder why everybody prefer common-lisp.net instead of sf.net 12:23:04 beause sf.net is so... slow and shitty designed? 12:23:11 Because sf.net is intolerably ugly, has a web interface of doom, and is generally not very nice to use? 12:23:44 Oh, and the advertising on clnet is far less obtrusive and more on-topic. 12:23:51 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:24:32 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-114-116.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:43 nyef: web interface of doom :) 12:28:49 hey Xach 12:28:53 news item on my blog for ya :) 12:29:03 dto: Not my phrase, really. 12:29:09 and for those in the channel: http://dto.github.com/notebook/2010expo.html 12:29:16 dto: i already posted it! 12:29:16 the 2010 International Lisp Games Expo :) 12:29:20 Xach: haha! 12:29:24 *Xach* freshens planet lisp 12:29:48 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 ah 12:30:46 hmm 12:31:46 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:33:15 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:30 it doesn't seem to be w0rking 12:34:10 dto: livejournal is being wacky with the feeds :( 12:34:18 it will update sometime this morning 12:36:51 Xach: cool :) 12:36:54 thanks much man 12:37:05 so do you get desktop popups on rss? because i only posted that about 15 minutes ago 12:37:23 i refresh google reader once every 47 seconds 12:37:45 ha 12:37:58 ... Something is wrong with that phrase. 12:39:04 ./clbuild check gives: 12:39:28 Error: Don't have a Lisp system to bootstrap from. 12:40:40 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:27 But SBCL was installed by clbuild yesterday. CL-USER> (lisp-implementation-version) "1.0.39.23" 12:41:47 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43:21 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 12:43:27 My clbuild installation seem to be sick. How can I fix it? 12:45:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:49:07 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-137-58.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:49:34 is there a good way to copy an SVN from common-lisp.net ? 12:49:45 lat: what makes you think that something is wrong? 12:49:57 (backing it up that is) 12:50:12 The message you pasted is just something luke added recently. It was meant to helpful, but it might not be. 12:51:19 dmiles_afk: just checkout it? 12:52:06 Pohsul: i might just checkout and commit each revision yeah 12:52:51 but playing around, i dont want to abuse common-lisp.net durring so 12:53:30 lichtblau, clbuild gives an error for almost everything I try to do with it. 12:54:05 dmiles_afk: if you want all revisions you can use svnsync 12:54:43 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kqvgtfxiutbfkcln] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:02 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mlidrvmfnxwmnbun] has joined #lisp 12:55:05 Pohsul: ah good.. i was thinimng that was only local paths but indeed it does remote repos 12:55:38 lichtblau, I often get: Couldn't load "/home/lat/clbuild/clbuild.lisp": file does not exist. But trying to reinstall clbuid using darcs also fails. 12:56:44 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mlidrvmfnxwmnbun] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:02 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jkzijltehzjbnjos] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 somewhere in minion there's an advice about bug reports and "it fails". 12:58:45 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 12:58:52 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.33] has joined #lisp 13:02:19 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:03:09 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:04:38 -!- cmsimon [~tific@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:24 speaking of fails 13:05:32 http://xach.com/tmp/fails/ 13:06:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:08:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@91.112.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:25 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:53 Xach: nice. now how to make Okra find libokra.so for your tool? (assuming it was even compiled) 13:09:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jkzijltehzjbnjos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:23 aerique: my ubuntu is too old, unfortunately. i need to make a new build server with easier access to more foreign libraries. 13:09:25 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xtlrteroytffmfhm] has joined #lisp 13:09:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:09:45 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 13:10:56 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:10:56 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.144.82] has joined #lisp 13:11:43 Xach: no, this is a C wrapper lib that is part of Okra not Ogre and needs to be compiled 13:12:07 aerique: Ah. Hmm, I don't know. 13:12:43 Xach, that is a lot of failure. It was followed by success though, right? 13:12:46 Are package symbols stored in a file? If so, what is the name of that file? 13:12:46 Me neither but it's a situation I need to think about with all these automated library / package tools popping up 13:14:05 *Xach* fixes one fail already 13:14:38 lat: 435 winning systems 13:14:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:16:19 aerique: how does the .so get created? 13:17:32 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:51 After updating SBCL, how do I update all the stale .fasl files? 13:18:50 lat: i use the trick at http://cliki.net/asdf 13:19:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-114-116.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:19:20 lat: i think asdf2 (included in cvs sbcl) aims to avoid that issue entirely. 13:19:50 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:30 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112032 13:20:57 aerique: ahh 13:21:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:30 aerique: that'll require more work to automate on my side. 13:23:17 Xach: perhaps call a default script that people like me should include with their libs? anymore, i should be working now can't spend too much processor time on this 13:23:26 *anyway 13:23:30 I was rather surprised when I went to kill out some fasls as part of a build test only to find that they weren't where I expected them. :-/ 13:24:14 nyef: ASDF2? 13:24:31 Yeah, ASDF2. 13:24:49 Eventually found them, some eleven directories or more deep under ~/.cache/. 13:25:31 nyef: just nuke the entire ~/.cache/common-lisp/ dir 13:25:51 -!- aw [~aw@147.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:25:51 it's healthy to do that once in a while 13:26:04 Umm... I wanted to nuke -one project- worth of fasls, not my entire environment. 13:26:28 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 Xach, I installed asdf2 yesterday. So, the trick is not needed now? 13:27:10 HG` [~HG@xdsleq084.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:23 lat: That's my understanding. 13:27:48 -!- Edward__ [~edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-151.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 13:28:05 Xach, ok. thanks! 13:29:48 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:34 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:33 -!- Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.23.233] has quit [] 13:35:02 -!- _danb_ [~user@203-158-37-121.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:47 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:49 fe[nl]ix: Can I ask you again what exactly you wanted to be able to do with errors in external formats? 13:39:58 -!- a-s [~user@lixandru-ag.mediasat.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40:52 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-124-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:31 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:36 *splittist* awaits sbcl 1.40 ASDF2 Edition with some impatience. Not a lot, but some. 13:42:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.78.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:42:49 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xtlrteroytffmfhm] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:34 *Xach* loves kt's commit messages at http://github.com/kennytilton 13:45:20 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:20 splittist: This freeze period is beginning to make me feel uneasy. 13:45:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:45:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:44 I'm waiting for windows problem confirmation and fix 13:46:34 One more showstopper and I'll be calling it a "bad" freeze period. 13:47:09 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:32 tcr [~tcr@115.132.78.233] has joined #lisp 13:47:50 jbd [~user@67-198-71-121.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:03 I'm also suspecting that I'm going to have to break down and figure out how to set up another win32 build environment if this kind of crap is going to keep happening. 13:50:35 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728509.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:50:42 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 \seen drewc 13:51:10 is there a method by which I can automatically set a special variable for any call I make from my slime repl? 13:51:18 seen drewc 13:51:21 mmm 13:51:37 uffa 13:51:41 let's say there's an *override* special I'm using somewhere in code that branches an extra verbose or breaking version of a routine. 13:51:59 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:10 (let ((*the-special* :whatever)) (frob ...)) 13:52:17 tcr: that's what I'm doing. 13:52:29 I'm just wondering if there's a way to have that always happen for repl commands 13:52:40 like a sort of repl top level form that encapsulates whatever you give it 13:52:46 You can hack interactive-eval, or however it's called in swank.lisp 13:52:54 Oh - it was the win32 version I was particularly looking forward to. Still, if it's impossible... 13:53:01 (setf *override* t)? 13:53:07 tcr: thanks. 13:53:11 I'm starting to think to make my projects homes on my site ... 13:53:30 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:02 Xach: I'm not sure that will isolate the *override* scope. Would not every one in the image now see that value of *override*, in which case it's no longer an override. 13:54:07 splittist: Hey, if you're doing your own win32 builds, try the posted bugfix and report back! 13:54:24 Shaftoe: Who's "everyone" else? And what's the special in question? 13:54:28 Shaftoe: what other ones are there? 13:55:21 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:55:39 running a webserver (hunchentoot). spawns threads. from time to time, I need to do stuff on it. Currently, I have a new function in some library that I've made into a branch which either calls the original method or my newer version 13:55:46 I don't want this to be visible to the live system. 13:55:59 it's not ideal, but I can not test anywhere but on the live system. 13:56:02 Is this system threading-enabled? 13:56:05 yes 13:56:23 SBCL? 13:56:25 yes 13:56:48 nyef: "threading-enabled" is a relative term =) 13:56:54 Yeah, yeah. 13:57:01 nyef: I'm aware SBCL's threading isn't rock solid. 13:57:32 Bind the override to off in each thread. SLIME will spawn new threads for each REPL evaluation. 13:57:58 Have the global value of the override set to on. 13:58:06 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:15 Anything done from slime will have the override, any "normal" thread won't. 13:58:41 no that's not corrrect 13:58:41 hmm. ok. Does a spawned thread "inherit" the special variable? 13:58:57 all repl evaluation happens within the same thread 13:58:59 i.e. if I startup hunchentoot (which has an initial thread), will its worker threads inherit the special? 13:59:04 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:59:05 ... Really? 13:59:09 sure 13:59:17 Shaftoe: Not by default. 13:59:49 alrighty. I think in that case tcr's method of hacking swank.lisp might be quicker approach 14:00:10 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-inlamihhbzyjtosj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:08 *nyef* would happily use a thread-offset-sap to set a thread-local binding for a symbol without storing the binding on the binding stack if necessary. 14:02:43 there's (setf symbol-value-in-thread) nowadays 14:03:20 tcr: what do you mean by that exactly? 14:03:22 Or that... But doesn't that set the global value if there's no thread-local binding? 14:03:26 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleq084.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:25 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:27 -!- catnap [~terimpil@radio-65.hut.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:06:29 morning 14:06:39 Hello slyrus. 14:06:39 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:07:14 slyrus: you headed to ILC2010? 14:09:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:09:20 that the one at the nugget? I suppose I probably should. Only a 4 hour drive. 14:09:36 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:09:52 slyrus: yeah 14:09:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:10:07 Well, don't get too enthused about it! 14:10:28 :) 14:10:37 the nugget??? who chooses the location for these things? 14:11:51 Last year's was at some podunk "institute" with no on-site hotel. This is surely a better venue. 14:12:28 it's hard to top cambridge, IYAM 14:14:47 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 14:16:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:33 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:13 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:13 *Xach* has had darcs flake out on him several times now and hog cpu while doing nothing visible, wonders if he's using the wrong darcs 14:19:23 what is the semantics of a (loop do (...) while (...) do (...) ) ? 14:19:31 where can I find such description? 14:19:31 Xach: sounds normal 14:19:51 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:19:52 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:19:57 (or can someone tell me) 14:20:02 clhs loop 14:20:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 14:20:41 it doesn't quite say what two do's do though. 14:20:59 Xach: if it's a darcs 1.* then it's too old 14:21:17 Shaftoe: they do things 14:21:25 *Xach* is using 2.0.2 14:21:31 stassats: =) 14:21:42 why twice then? 14:21:47 why would I do that and not just join them 14:21:48 Shaftoe: I think that's illegal syntax. 14:21:58 oh nice =) 14:22:00 Shaftoe: do you see WHILE? 14:22:09 Xach: i think it's legal 14:22:38 Oh, I was testing wrong. 14:22:38 it's WHILE, not FOR 14:22:49 Ok. 14:23:24 stassats: the thing is, the loop in question ends when the !while condition is met. 14:23:24 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:28 so the first do also ends. 14:23:35 I just don't get the purpose of doing it this way 14:23:43 no, it doesn't end 14:23:44 brown [~user@nat/google/x-fmggiarjmojmsrrk] has joined #lisp 14:23:53 -!- brown is now known as reb 14:24:02 the first do is evaluated one time more 14:24:36 than the second 14:24:45 urgh man. 14:24:55 that's ... I don't know. 14:24:59 that's just prone to errors 14:25:08 eh? 14:25:15 it's not verbose. 14:25:15 (list-packages) 14:25:18 Whoops! Thought I was at the repl. 14:25:19 Shaftoe: it's obviously obvious 14:25:28 not if the other do is a page down. 14:25:42 also, it's splitting what's occuring in the loop 14:25:46 occurring 14:26:16 well, no one's forcing you to write code that way 14:26:41 I'm pretty sure a finally could solve whatever problem this multiple do is solving - but in any case, I'm not going to go into the argument over the loop form... 14:26:50 yeah, I wouldn't. I'm just maintaining existing code. 14:26:51 finally can't solve it 14:27:08 (in a sane manner) 14:27:22 you probably mean in some cases. 14:27:45 no 14:27:57 Is there any way to list all the packages that are available? 14:28:06 clhs l-a-p 14:28:06 LIST-ALL-PACKAGES: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_list_a.htm 14:28:23 lat: what a non-intuitive name! 14:28:35 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 14:28:36 stassats: I can easily see a finally solution for the loop I have on hand. 14:28:58 it's a loop which consumes data from odbc, and then writes it somewhere. one do for each. 14:29:22 stassats, true!!! 14:29:27 hmmm. I guess I see what you're talking about... 14:30:01 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:30:11 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:30:29 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest77272 14:30:38 There's also INITIALLY which might be clearer, but I usually put any initially forms out of LOOP alltogether except if it's a branch of an IF 14:30:51 -!- Guest77272 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:30:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-134.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:29 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:31:29 I *so* whish for initially collect (foo) and finally collect (bar) to work 14:33:19 yeah. That's what I was assuming as far as structure, but I realize the do while do achieves the "not finally" clause 14:33:28 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:40 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 I would need an "everytime except the last time" clause, which is essentially what the do while do is doing. 14:34:45 Shouldn't all the packages that were installed by clbuild be available? 14:34:58 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 lat: http://weitz.de/packages.html might help 14:35:38 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:03 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:38:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:39:10 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:42:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 14:43:05 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:08 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 14:45:16 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:47:55 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2009A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:19 dto: On the lisp games challege, does it need to be graphical type games or can it be more console based too? 14:50:38 Xach, ok. I'll reword my question. Shouldn't the packages for all the libraries installed by clbuild be available? 14:50:42 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:03 lat: They'll be available if you load them. 14:52:38 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:53 TDT: If you want to make a roguelike or an interactive fiction, go right ahead. 14:56:02 nyef: k k, I'm not realy good enough I feel to do a really good gui thing, but an interactive fiction or mud-like game could be kinda fun, especially with some minor multiplayer aspects to it. 14:56:31 TDT: everything is included 14:56:38 TDT: cool! 14:57:12 challenge? 14:57:35 http://dto.github.com/notebook/2010expo.html 14:58:38 hm. I'm writing a game, but I started a few weeks ago 14:58:52 i have lisp game client that makes a game get hosted in secondlife 14:59:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:00:29 dlowe: you can present a progression of existing work. as long as something significant happens during the expo. 15:01:03 that works 15:01:57 dto: i'm hoping quicklisp makes it easy to get started with a lot of handy game-related libraries. 15:02:16 what's quicklisp? 15:02:29 come one, come all 15:02:30 quicklisp 15:02:43 dto: my unfinished project. the goal is to make it easy to get a lot of libraries available in your environment, quickly. 15:02:47 ah. 15:02:53 great for the gamedevs 15:02:57 and everyone else too 15:02:58 oops.. that was for google.. my Syngergy clinet got a bumped mouse 15:03:01 that's the idea 15:03:13 quicklisp doesn't have a page yet. i should fix that. 15:03:32 Xach: ok so i've emailed to the lisp-game-dev@common-lisp.net list, posted a page, blogged, someone posted on lisp reddit.... what else is there? anything i left out? 15:03:42 i been trying to figure out how on google to take Lisp# 15:04:13 dmiles_afk: A site: term for one of the log collections? 15:04:38 http://code.google.com/p/uabcl/ 15:04:45 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 its actually a littel nicer than ABCL since you have all of .NET and all of Java libs available 15:05:36 but the reason it came up is my Game Client is written in it 15:05:49 well uses it 15:06:55 oh but my Q was Xach getting quicklisp into google reminded me that i need to find how to get "Lisp#" into google 15:07:03 Give it a new name. 15:07:15 Xach, please tell me how to make a core file that has mcclim in it. 15:07:39 lat: I don't know how to do that, sorry. 15:08:44 DotLisp/Lisp.Net/LispSharl/L# all taken but non of them are Common lisp.. so maybe it be "CLSharp" 15:09:15 dmiles_afk: How about Faceflinch? 15:09:32 how maybe people google CLSharp per day here as compared to Lisp .NET ? 15:09:38 hehe 15:09:58 lat: Build and load mcclim, and then save the core? Don't think I've ever done that myself, though. 15:10:03 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:41 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 rtoym, thanks. 15:13:40 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 15:15:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:17:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:17:43 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:17 tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-69-193-6-229.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:01 *Xach* sets up www.quicklisp.org 15:20:06 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:23 *stassats* rushes to www.quicklisp.org 15:20:49 the #lisp effect has nearly crashed my server! 15:21:16 Xach: looks very nice. 15:21:24 rtoym: does mcclim work? 15:22:54 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.72] has quit [Quit: of] 15:22:58 leo2007: I think so. I only ever play with the repl thing, the demos, and maybe scigraph. I'm not a regular user. And the last time I tried, I kept getting errors about some font or something. 15:23:43 Xach: Haha! I see google has already indexed src.quicklisp.org. 15:24:07 bbl. 15:25:56 -!- CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:04 rtoym: google is VERY quick, these days 15:26:15 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 15:26:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:35 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-69-193-6-229.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:56 Xach: are you not a bit worried about EC2 bandwidth costs, there? 15:27:02 sorry, s3 bandwidth costs 15:27:13 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27:31 tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-69-193-6-229.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:33 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.5/20100623161114]] 15:27:48 rsynnott: My back-of-the-envelope figures indicate it will be reasonable. 15:28:53 tcr: any reason why swank:start-server doesn't accept port to listen? 15:29:56 rsynnott: another case where the tiny CL "community" works to my advantage! 15:30:09 there are only about 50 people who will ever use quicklisp. 15:30:13 Amazon should really have an option for community funding of s3 accounts, for open-source projects and the like 15:30:31 Xach: I'd be surprised if it's THAT low 15:30:41 there are nearly 300 people in this channel 15:30:54 Plus some of us may be evil and download it a few ... dozen times 15:31:00 Yes, but most of them never speak, and join #lisp just for the cool factor. 15:31:10 xristos: use create-server? 15:31:51 start-server is for emacs 15:32:02 laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9b6e.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 15:32:49 i don't think i'll ever use quicklisp, i don't see a need 15:34:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:37 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 15:35:17 franz's ceo says "You can debug Lisp programs visually in a stepper" 15:35:33 i debug them visually, in my head 15:35:58 the first stepping debuggers were allegedly lisp debuggers 15:36:07 leo2007: well, you can 15:36:22 you even sometimes can in slime, depending on the phase of the moon :) 15:36:37 ok 15:37:10 Xach: if you also count those how only hang on c.l.l., the clozure ML, lispforum.com, etc... 15:37:19 the total number is (much) higher 15:37:37 ok, 57 15:37:40 *rsynnott* spent a while fiddling to get it working a while back, and then found that it wasn't really as useful as expected 15:37:56 a repl makes stepping debuggers a lot less interesting imo 15:38:00 Xach: what would you recommend as a solid gui lib for common lisp? 15:38:20 leo2007: CAPI 15:38:36 hmm, that's commercial, isn't it? 15:38:48 leo2007: commonqt is also _reasonably_ usable 15:38:54 leo2007: yes 15:38:54 (at least on mac and linux) 15:39:20 rsynnott: i wouldn't call it "solid" 15:40:08 and some of the GTK bindings are okay 15:40:09 Xach: capi looks really good and something the lisp community lacks. 15:40:46 ccl's objc bridge is _extremely_ good, but of course basically Mac-only 15:41:03 and solid meaning that it doesn't break suddenly and take lisp with it 15:41:09 rsynnott: Cocotron is looking better every day, though :) 15:41:28 yep, and it looks like clozure have been working with it a lot, interestingly 15:41:30 leo2007: how does the lisp community lack it? it's right there. 15:41:48 it would be interesting, to say the least, if Cocoa became the de-facto cross-platform UI thing 15:42:34 *rsynnott* has written a few small tools with ccl/objc bridge; the UI integration stuff is easier than in proper objc 15:42:50 i'm still dreaming that McClim will be polished someday 15:43:50 hi, I'm having some problems with asdf2+ccl. This is my source-registry.conf: http://pastebin.ch/5824, and this is my system-definition file: http://pastebin.ch/5825 . The problem is that when I load-system dmlib, the compilation stops without errors, but it's incomplete and some of the dependencies aren't loaded (for example, cl-mathstats). This doesn't occurr if I don't use source-registry.conf but set the system paths using 15:43:50 asdf:*central-registry*. Any clue? 15:43:57 rsynnott: I think that Apple will do their best to avoid that 15:44:00 Xach: I mean something that is freely available including the source. 15:44:04 Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:05 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:44:05 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 fe[nl]ix: I doubt they can control it 15:44:35 it's actually good enough for polished distributable mac apps, now 15:44:47 more than good enough for internal gui tools 15:45:20 fe[nl]ix: I don't think anyone's ever had much luck attacking cloned APIs on legal grounds 15:45:20 rsynnott: Qt is quite cross-platform currently 15:45:39 leo2007: ah 15:47:15 rsynnott: mcclime or ccl/cocoa 15:47:38 Having too many users is a "good problem to have" 15:47:54 leo2007: http://leonardoce.interfree.it/gtkserver/index.html may be of some interest 15:48:01 Xach: does ASDF2 help? 15:48:28 gtk-server itself is very solid; the lisp-side library probably somewhat less so 15:48:41 Fare: with what? 15:48:49 tcr: was it with you I was speaking last night regarding clsql? 15:49:20 with allowing to mix and match quicklisp-provided software with otherwise user-controlled software. 15:49:29 Fare: Not yet. 15:49:36 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 15:49:36 Fare: it might help avoid stale fasl problems. 15:49:38 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:38 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 15:49:46 oh yeah, that too 15:50:37 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 15:51:34 if I were to write a paper on ASDF2, what should I talk about? 15:51:44 rsynnott: thanks for gtk-server, that's the first time I've heard about it. 15:51:48 aw [~aw@147.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:49 http://www.gtk-server.org/reports-20080915.png - This is a cross-platform GUI app written with clisp 15:51:58 tcr, in any case, drewc, here's the updated code from yesterday: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112019 15:52:16 Fare: "Why you should feel good about using ASDF2, instead of a nameless, aching dread of incompatibility problems" 15:52:19 (though NOT using the afore-mentioned library) 15:52:33 one caveat is that gtk in general on MacOS is not great 15:55:18 Fare: The problems of settling design issues too early? Or the wonders of keeping implementation designs non-exported? Or how CLOS can become the wrong tool? 15:55:52 which nameless aching dread of incompatibility problems are you thinking about? 15:56:01 those solved by ASDF2? 15:56:38 tcr: or how live-upgrading code in Lisp is very hard (though possible under constraints) 15:57:10 tcr: which design issues are you thinking of? 15:57:42 just random thinking out loud; I don't know how applicable it's to asdf 15:58:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:15 Fare: things that worked with asdf1 not working with asdf2. 15:58:34 Xach: Oops :-( 15:58:38 Isn't CLOS a hindrance for declarative build specifications because it makes it so easy to extend stuff imperatively? 15:58:45 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:02 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:18 Xach: are there such things beyond the new strictures on the toplevel :pathname argument to defsystem ? 15:59:38 Fare: *-truename* issues 15:59:50 for compile-file, load 16:00:10 oh, you mean the necessity to use output-files to know where things where relocated? 16:00:29 I don't know what that means. I mean references to *load-truename* that are no longer valid due to the fasl cache. 16:01:11 well, fasl caches existed before (a-b-l, c-l-c, cl-launch) -- they were "just" made the default. 16:01:13 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:27 so your code has fewer chances of "accidentally" working 16:01:31 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2009A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 16:01:37 in the default setting but not in everyone's. 16:01:43 i always used #.(or *c-f-t* *l-t*) and had no problems 16:01:57 with ABL 16:02:02 stassats: Is that the case with asdf2? 16:02:13 _fogus_ [fogus@devio.us] has joined #lisp 16:02:15 Xach: should be 16:03:29 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@rrcs-69-193-6-229.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:53 benny` [~user@i577A1289.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:31 works fine 16:05:49 -!- benny [~user@i577A12CE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:06:26 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:07:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.78.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:09:07 Matrox [~Matrox@unaffiliated/matrox] has joined #lisp 16:09:49 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-109-120.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.152.109] has joined #lisp 16:12:12 tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.117] has joined #lisp 16:12:13 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:15:38 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.170.84] has joined #lisp 16:16:13 Xof: The win32 fix is clearly the right thing, shall I commit a fix (with the correct reader conditional)? 16:17:31 please 16:17:45 I'll wait to hear that someone has built CVS successfully on win32 16:21:18 xan_ [~xan@chello213047069075.1.13.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:21:20 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:36 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0581.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:22:36 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0581.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 16:22:36 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 16:23:03 tayloj [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:14 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:25:17 Done. I'll email the list. 16:26:34 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:26:50 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:12 If we have one more show-stopper bug this freeze period... 16:29:51 it knows you're anxious to land exciting new features! It is teasing you. 16:31:05 anyone know what variable holds the default value for sb-ext:octets-to-string's encoding parameter? 16:31:08 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:05 It's not that, it's that every time we've had a long freeze period or had to extend the freeze period we've also had a correspondingly large number of bugs that survived the freeze period. 16:32:43 Isn't the obvious name for Lisp.NET BearClaw? 16:32:55 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:32:59 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:56 Shaftoe: use M-. to find the source and see for yourself ;) 16:34:05 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:34:09 drewc: thanks 16:34:54 (the answer is sb-ext::*default-external-format*, but learning to ask your lisp these questions is an important skill to foster) 16:34:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757b7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:27 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 16:36:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:42 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 16:38:02 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 16:38:36 -!- aw [~aw@147.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:06 ugh, 39 minutes now. going in the wrong direction! 16:39:35 aw [~aw@147.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:47 *Xach* wonders how he could speed up fasl loading 16:40:11 drewc: how would I make it so that M-. works with remote source trees? 16:40:46 -!- laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9b6e.ucd.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:09 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:41:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:41:57 Xach: by not loading fasls? 16:42:15 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:42:26 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-207.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:26 Shaftoe: use logical pathnames and/or sshfs? 16:42:33 -!- bozhidar` is now known as bozhidar 16:42:47 Fare: I don't see a clear way to using that option in my case. 16:42:50 splittist, how is it obvious? 16:42:53 Fare: I'm using tramp 16:43:15 Xach, sb-heapdump? cfasl? pre-dumped images? 16:43:25 Fare: maybe I didn't get it. was that an actual question or were those answers? 16:43:33 Shaftoe: use slime-tramp? 16:44:11 yes. C-x C-f with /ssh:server:/path/foo/bar.lisp 16:44:34 yes what? 16:44:40 slime-tramp is a slime contrib 16:45:12 nyef: freeze periods do not change the bug appearance or fixing rate, they just buffer a few bugs until after the freeze. 16:45:52 Fare: They may not -change- the rate, but they give an indication of what the current rate is. 16:46:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:47:53 heh. Alright that was an answer too. 16:48:05 I'm just generally used to understanding sentences that end with "?" as being questions. 16:48:22 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:48:43 because there are several ways and you need to choose the one you like yourself 16:48:57 Shaftoe: no, questions end with "p" or "-p" :P 16:49:09 drewc: duly noted =) 16:49:48 stassats: yeah, I understand. It was just ambiguous. I Thought you were asking if that was what I Was using and you were going to make a comment if so. 16:49:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:14 in that case i would say "do you use slime-tramp?" 16:52:43 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 16:52:44 billitch [~billitch@g225065056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:05 stassats: indeed you would. but this is the intertubes, and I have to use adaptive error correction. I don't know, maybe english is your third language and that grammatically poor but still intelligible sentence was all you could manage 16:53:29 english is my third language indeed 16:53:32 =) 16:53:35 Xach: for sbcl? I can offer guidance for a PCL modification which makes load-time defmethod actions much faster 16:53:38 chronologically 16:53:50 Xof: yeah. 16:53:52 in any case though, "use slime-tramp?" is just one ellipsis short of "you use tramp?" 16:54:59 *nyef* adds fasl-format implementation refactoring to his possible-future-projects list, now that he's reminded of it. 16:55:05 Xach: if you could sb-sprof your loading-fasl operations, that would be useful data 16:55:15 Xof: ok 16:55:32 Shaftoe: if you're going to complain about the answer, don't ask the questions. keep it in topic please, nobody cares about your comprehension disabilities ;) 16:55:49 My use-case is loading 450 separate systems from scratch. the commonly-depended-on projects will be already compiled, but they still take a long time to load. 16:55:49 oh dear. 16:55:57 I have accidentally the whole thread. 16:56:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:48 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:04 Fare: it's not obvious at all, as I realised as soon as I saw it on screen... 16:57:07 nyef: so that as much of it as possible can be trivially mmap()ed with minimal linking involved? 16:57:18 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:33 hi 16:57:51 Fare: No, not changing the format, just refactoring the implementation towards a more declarative form. 16:58:01 *Xach* updates http://xach.com/tmp/wins.txt with way more wins 16:58:31 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:32 Fare: The whole "trivially mmap()able fasl" thing is a separate angle, though the format refactoring might help with it. 16:59:33 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:42 Ok, who is looking for fails.txt? 16:59:46 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:00:04 hahah, this time it's not me :) 17:00:12 *stassats* hides 17:00:24 http://xach.com/tmp/fails/ has the fails, with logs 17:01:44 roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 17:02:29 Xach: well, looks like you're getting there, anyway 17:02:45 the low-hanging fruit is delicious 17:03:22 *rsynnott* wonders how big a core image from that would be 17:03:41 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 17:03:48 well, a lot of those fails are pretty weird things 17:03:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:04:17 of failing because you (unsurprisingly) do not have libdb2 or whatever 17:04:31 Some of them are for foreign libraries I don't have, some are from implementation-specific things like packages, some of them are because of slightly complicated build processes (more than just asdf) 17:05:02 I've managed to get patches applied from three maintainers as a result of my build failures, so far. 17:05:13 and today I learned that Kevin Rosenberg wrote a lisp interface to pubmed 17:05:25 who says cl doesn't have a good selection of libraries, eh? 17:05:42 pretty much everyone. 17:05:54 but hopefully they'll be wronger than ever, soon 17:07:00 Xach: to whom did you send patches ? 17:07:04 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:31 fe[nl]ix: Nobody at all. Tamas Papp, Kenny Tilton, and Gary King fixed simple build-blocking bugs for me. 17:07:38 one-liner type stuff 17:07:45 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:07 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:08 Xach: I don't see fare-csv there. 17:08:13 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:19 'Lisp: you're wronger than ever about it'. Isn't that the motto for NuggetLC'10? 17:08:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:52 when using (random) does it go up to the number specified in the argument? or just before it? and does it include zero? 17:09:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:23 zc00gii, try (random 1) 17:09:28 clhs: random 17:09:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_random.htm 17:09:39 Fare: it's there now! 17:09:50 gigamonkey, J Strother Moore doesn't take a . after the J. 17:09:58 gigamonkey, unless at the end of a sentence. 17:10:16 Uh, okay. 17:10:20 incidentally, it would seem impossible to make all of these load on the same machine; rdnzl is win-only, but a few bits and pieces are surely UNIX-only 17:10:28 Fare: ahh, thank you 17:10:33 *billitch* is planning to release some libraries soon 17:10:33 (I also don't see xcvb, but it depends on its own branches of cffi, iolib) 17:10:45 rsynnott: RDNZL doesn't have to stay windows-only, though 17:10:46 you should be able to fix elephant by providing it with a config file, btw 17:10:51 what about exscribe, should it be there? 17:10:59 Fare: What's exscribe? 17:11:07 (though you'll also need a highly specific version of bdb) 17:11:31 Xach: an authoring tool, with mostly HTML backend (also a somewhat limited PDF backend) 17:12:23 -!- pkhuong__ is now known as pkhuong 17:13:49 molicle fail looks like you're not using ASDF2 17:13:55 Yes, that'll be an easy fix. 17:14:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:04 Fare: I can't add exscribe. It depends on cl-launch, which can't be loaded with asdf. 17:15:10 it can't? 17:15:25 Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.82.52] has joined #lisp 17:15:32 Well, I'm unable to figure out how to load it. 17:15:35 There is no system file. 17:16:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:01 cl-launch 3.000 is compatible with ASDF 2. And cl-launch 2.36 with ASDF 1. 17:16:11 Ok, where is cl-launch.asd? 17:16:36 either in the .deb, or you create it with cl-launch --install (or look at the provided Makefile) 17:16:48 *p_l|backup* notes that a Windows.Forms could make a fine cross-platform GUI for CL 17:16:49 Ok, that will have to wait for another day. 17:17:03 I am working from easily loadable systems for now. 17:17:18 Fare: what does exscribe need cl-launch for? 17:17:25 p_l|backup: is it cross-platform? I thought alternative UI stuff was generally used on Linux .net apps 17:17:25 to start it up 17:17:31 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.5/20100623161114]] 17:17:37 Xach: (what are you testing exactly ?) 17:17:41 it's a command line tool 17:17:52 Fare: oh, i see. I'm aiming more for libraries, in general. 17:18:07 Fare: at least in my quest for exscribe i got scribble and meta! 17:18:10 (you can use also as a library, but it's primarily aimed at the command line) 17:18:11 billitch: quicklisp 17:18:16 rsynnott: The issue with Windows.Forms applications not working outside Windows is that quite abig chunk of them used native controls (hijacking Windows.Forms) 17:18:38 Current Mono has quite compliant implementation iirc 17:19:27 ah, okay, wasn't aware of that 17:19:49 WPF is of course way cooler, but outside of MS only the silverlight subset is supported 17:20:04 fe[nl]ix, herep 17:20:16 Xach: quicklisp ? url ? 17:20:22 billitch: www.quicklisp.org 17:20:25 Fare: pong 17:20:49 Xach: just pushed a fix for the iolib fail 17:21:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:21:29 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:32 fe[nl]ix: oh, cool. 17:21:41 Xach: there's a guy who's been doing a bit of work on Lispbox. Would you be interested to be put in touch with him--maybe he can build quicklisp into Lispbox. 17:21:41 fe[nl]ix, can we discuss someday the parts of my iolib branch that may or may not make it to iolib master? Then I shall move them to quux-iolib. Also whether the signalfd thing in quux-iolib can make it to iolib, albeit it's not the definitive API you want to provide 17:21:53 Hi all. Does someone know the csv link for this project: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-jpeg/ 17:22:13 also, what about that CFFI ASDF hack that doesn't work portably? 17:22:19 Xach: to gitorious - c-l.net should synchronize within 15 minutes 17:22:45 fe[nl]ix: thanks, i see it 17:23:01 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-4.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 17:23:09 gigamonkey: I don't mind. I don't think there'll be much for him (or anyone) to do until I push out a working first version. 17:23:32 Fair enough. Maybe I'll just point it out to him and let him play with it, send comments, whatever, if he wants to. 17:25:28 Anyone? I'm a little stuck becouse the site's helplink on downloading the cvs is broken 17:26:05 Lis: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous:anonymous@common-lisp.net:/project/cl-jpeg/cvsroot co cljl 17:26:15 Thank you 17:27:42 jga [1000@189.216.138.175] has joined #lisp 17:27:47 *stassats* wonders why it is "cljl" 17:28:06 *Xach* also wonders that 17:28:29 the module is named cljl, the system is named cl-jpeg, and the package is named jpeg. 17:28:35 nice 17:28:43 It's compressed. 17:28:45 foolish consistency is the something something of something 17:28:55 drocamor [~drocamor@69.38.250.60] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 Xach: thats where the problem with clbuild started to kick in :D 17:29:04 Or maybe just lossy. 17:29:07 at least it works now 17:31:11 stassats: the author had premonitions that clojure would one day exist, and wanted to make the name especially confusing :) 17:31:46 common lisp - jpeg library 17:32:14 common lisp - jpeg library for working with jpeg files cljlfwwjf 17:32:27 Lis: that would make it easier to google 17:33:01 Hi I am having trouble installing lispbuilder-sdl. I go through the installation instructions but when I get to (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'lispbuilder-sdl) it fails and says: 'component "lispbuilder-sdl" not found'. I'm using ubuntu 10.04 64bit with SBCL. Any ideas on how i can troubleshoot this? 17:33:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.170.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:41 drocamor: that usually means that asdf can't find your lispbuilder-sdl.asd file. 17:33:51 I'll hold out for "common lisp - jpeg library now capable of opening more than 80% of my files", however you'd abbreviate that 17:34:12 hefner: does cl-jpeg fail that often? i've never used it, but i was hoping to start. 17:34:16 Xach: How do i point it to that file? 17:34:17 What was that crazy random sort (not guaranteed to work on all imp.) like (sort #'something-with-floats seq), it was reported on a blog. 17:34:30 'hobgoblin' would be a good name for an automated style checker. Perhaps part of giga's editorial workflow... 17:34:38 drocamor: one way is to (push #p"/directory/for/that/file/" asdf:*central-registry*) 17:34:45 splittist: nice. 17:34:48 I may use that. 17:34:54 please! 17:35:01 lhz: either way your argument order is wrong 17:35:13 Xach: short but intriguing homepage, i'm curious.. is it some kind of huge repository with all available libs ready to use ? 17:35:15 gigamonkey: any remarks re: safari? 17:35:21 billitch: it will be. 17:35:22 Xach: eh? 17:35:40 gigamonkey: apress+oreilly highlighted PCL as a safari collaboration title. does that affect you at all? 17:35:45 Xach: I don't know, my anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable. I just seem to recall clicking around random files in my home directory back when athas wired it into the clim listener, and having it fail on a few of them. 17:35:55 Xach: dunno. Link? 17:36:03 hefner: gotcha. should be easy enough to test. 17:36:15 I think if people pay to look at it on Safari, I get paid. But maybe not. 17:36:34 Xach: Thanks. I think there is probably a problem with the path I have put there. I'll work on that 17:36:35 I guess it depends whether it counts an an ebook sale or if Safari just pays a one-time licensing fee to Apress. 17:37:04 gigamonkey: ah, it looks like i was getting a spam-recycled blog post from 2008 :( 17:37:10 gigamonkey: sorry for the noise. 17:37:11 Xach: ah yes! I was missing a trailing / 17:37:12 And to the extent that people read it on Safari and then decide they want a print copy, that's good for me. 17:37:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:15 thanks! 17:37:17 drocamor: that'll do it. 17:37:47 gigamonkey: http://www.prleap.com/pr/127588/ was the article that prompted the question 17:37:54 i thought it was a new thing 17:38:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:21 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.249.239] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 I like how Apress still insists on calling PCL, Practical Common LISP 17:38:41 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:38:43 I am so entirely fed up with those jokers I can't even tell you. 17:38:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:39:05 pocket_ [~pocket_@p3162-ipbf3209hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:39:08 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p3162-ipbf3209hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:32 gigamonkey: Do they have the rights to the book, or are you able to take it elsewhere? 17:40:46 antoszka: they have them until they let it go out of print. 17:40:53 Ah. 17:41:33 I remember you telling some horror stories of the pre-press process with the book (involving some MS-Word tossing or something). What that with Apress as well? 17:41:43 Yes. 17:41:47 :( 17:42:05 Fare: I won't add the signalfd code unless there's something - within iolib - that uses it 17:42:07 Though sadly, now that I'm an editor/publisher/evil guy, I see the appeal of using Word for it's changing tracking and commenting system. 17:42:24 But I'm working hard to avoid inflicting that on people. 17:42:37 -!- djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:42:55 If anyone wants to write a version control system for prose rather than code, feel free to go right ahead and let me know when you're done. 17:43:05 me too! 17:43:13 fe[nl]ix, ok. What about the other things in my iolib branch? 17:43:38 Xach: i guess such a project could really help to enlarge the CL community, is there something to clone already ? i like to contribute and i feel we are only 2 users of repo-install.. 17:43:48 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp 17:43:49 gigamonkey: If that's as far as it goes, it's probably acceptable. But trying to output some proper typography from Word is an abomination. 17:43:49 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:44:08 antoszka: yeah. I'll definitely not be doing that. 17:44:34 gigamonkey: what's wrong with latex ? 17:44:51 billitch: for me? nothing. (Though we'll be using ConTeX, it looks like, for Code Quarterly.) 17:45:05 For Apress, they didn't want to use it. Don't know why. 17:45:40 gigamonkey: do you actually find Word's commenting feature useful? The track changes/compare stuff is OK, but I have yet to come across a prose commenting feature that is more use than a covering email. 17:45:43 gigamonkey: You could get a good chunk of the effect with git and TeX comments. 17:45:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:45:45 Though I have to say, I sent Donald Knuth a letter, apologizing for the typography of Coders at Work and he wrote back and said something about how it's nice to see how even regular tools can still produce "nice looking pages". 17:45:49 Dunno if he was just being polite. 17:46:05 -!- TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:40 splittist: well, it's nice to have the comments sort of inline but not. 17:46:43 define regular .. =] 17:46:51 billitch: not TeX 17:46:51 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:51 gigamonkey: his blood was boiling ! 17:46:58 :D 17:47:23 Fare: which other things ? 17:50:06 nyef: what do you mean by "TeX comments"? 17:50:26 Is that a standard part of plain ol' TeX or a LaTeX thing or a separate package? 17:51:36 The problem with git and all other VC's, as far as I can tell, is that the granularity of diffs is too gross. It's nice to be able to step through each added or deleted comma as a separate change. 17:51:46 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:01 gigamonkey: you could do that with git 17:52:04 fe[nl]ix, you may diff our trees 17:52:08 billitch: how? 17:52:19 commiting after each comma ? 17:52:29 YAY! hunchentoot works with sbcl 17:52:40 boresome, but you could also have a frontend 17:53:01 Yeah. But you still need a backend for stepping through the changes. 17:53:13 The Word UI for that is actually pretty good. 17:53:15 yes git is really low level, but its a good start 17:53:22 gigamonkey: for example, with magit 17:53:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:48 gigamonkey: yeah, magit will let you stage a region 17:54:42 and the granularity is one line, although it could be better 17:55:34 gigamonkey: At least in LaTeX, the % character behaves as a ; does in lisp. 17:55:51 Does git break up files into smaller chunks at all. Or if I delete one comma and commit the file does that create a whole new blob representing the new version of the file? 17:56:07 nyef: I see, that kind of comments. 17:56:46 gigamonkey: I agree with your comment on the track changes feature in word. I have yet to find something close to that. although emacs diff/ediff mode can refine the diffs. 17:56:54 You could possibly get clever with some macros for actual conditionally-printable comments if you want to go that route. 17:58:06 The comments in dpans3 tex sources are sometimes funny. 18:00:00 Fare: maybe I'll take a look at those tomorrow 18:00:33 it's the line-oriented nature of version control tools that make them unsuited to (easy) use with prose, which is a mixture of logical and physical structure in its usual form. 18:01:44 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-137-141.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:17 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:40 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:01 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 18:08:38 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 18:08:46 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 18:09:19 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:38 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:07 you could always put each word on a separate line 18:12:49 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:31 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:56 you 18:14:58 mean 18:14:59 like 18:15:01 this? 18:15:03 :-) 18:15:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:17:46 Xach: wondering if you saw note re ASDF2 symbols? 18:18:45 mon_key, what note? 18:18:54 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:57 Phoodus [foo@174-17-116-185.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:30 mon_key: I did. 18:20:05 Xach: ok, so do you mind if i forward that to Fare. Reason I asked :)? 18:21:30 uh? 18:21:52 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:01 mon_key: I didn't really understand the implications, sorry. 18:22:16 Xach: nm sorry. 18:24:15 I modified the clbuild to compile hunchentoot. You can download it here: http://cid-5ff64c91ea9c5483.office.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/common%20lisp/sbcl?uc=1 maybe someone does find this usefull. 18:25:50 splittist: git could be adapted for prose. Though just automating Git seems good enough 18:28:21 I think version control tools are not line-oriented really. It's the diff presentation which is line-oriented. 18:30:41 At least with git and svn (and probably all others except CVS?), the storage backend is all binary deltas, not line-diffs. It only does a line-diff to show it to you, at the end. So you can really plug in whatever diff makes sense for your content. 18:32:58 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082C772.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 18:36:03 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 18:36:24 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F4C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:27 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096728509.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 18:36:42 foom: true. so my statement should read s/version control/diff/ ... 18:37:20 seems like you just need a merge and diff tool that works for prose to plug into your vcs then (: 18:37:35 a SMOP! 18:37:37 JSMOP, I suppose( : 18:38:11 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.18.37.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:30 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:39:50 *splittist* goes back to marking up the changes in a document using Word... 18:40:32 word really is a pretty nice program 18:40:57 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:41:10 Openoffice's track changes markup can use an external VCS I think. 18:41:20 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:42:07 I've never tried it, but someone told me that at some point. :) 18:44:39 the whole office suit is a damn nice "Programm" excel was the revolution 18:45:04 word just sucked in it's the early days... 18:45:19 I remember when ctrl+z deleted a whole page 18:45:35 So closing end reopening brought the usabillity back... :D 18:45:40 i never did like excel. 18:45:59 i came from wordstar and lotus 1-2-3 18:46:08 the ms suite always seemed very dumbed down. 18:46:14 Word is an abomination. But it is part of the ecosystem. (Because?) 18:46:58 i've never written a 'big server app' in lisp, always just little things and small number crunching utils, plus some stumpwm hacking. 18:47:30 but i want to write a phone switch in it now, i'm sick of the horrible options available in the open source telephony world. 18:47:48 that what erlang was invented for... 18:49:28 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:28 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:30 yep; something like erlang makes a lot of sense for phone switches 18:53:52 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:53:57 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:55:13 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:21 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:58:28 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:49 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:04 Snamich [~Snamich@161.210.164.210] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 Lis: funnily enough, no one has done an open source switch in erlang. 19:02:36 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 19:02:42 i considered it, but i'm just not comfortable with erlang day to day, plus the syntax is a high barrier for getting collaborators. 19:02:43 mstevens_ [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:02:43 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:02:43 mstevens_ [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:02:58 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:09 i'm gonna start with http://github.com/mattkeller/cl-sip.git and see what I can do. 19:03:49 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:03:52 Hmm. The easy part is the character-level diff and patch. The hard part is presenting the change nicely: e.g. these additional 1000 characters are the result of splitting a paragraph/adding a return... 19:04:06 using dynamic-extent for stack allocation is mainly useful for avoiding consing of intermediate values right? since you can't return the object (or any part of it) that is declared dynamic-extent 19:04:25 mstevens_ [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:04:45 bougyman, what kind of switch are you thinking of? 19:05:57 clbuild update --resume ... error: update was interrupted. 19:05:59 :'( 19:06:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:11 -!- mstevens_ is now known as mstevens 19:06:48 sykopomp: what's EOC? 19:07:22 EOC? :\ 19:07:46 Xach: I don't know what that means. 19:07:53 sykopomp: sheeple-tests depend on a component named "eoc" 19:08:02 Xach: oh. Eos. 19:08:03 sykopomp: I couldn't find anything by that name. 19:08:12 Oh, thanks. I read it wrong multiple times. 19:08:13 http://github.com/adlai/eos 19:10:07 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:10:36 asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.39] has joined #lisp 19:11:40 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:12:24 bougyman: erlang syntax is a barrier, so you'll use lisp instead? 19:12:25 Fare: something like freeswitch but sane with a test harness. 19:12:36 pkhuong: lisp syntax is very easy. 19:12:36 Snamich: right. 19:12:51 -!- TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:00 my kid was learning scheme way before any algol type languages. 19:13:05 drscheme was awesome for that. 19:13:09 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:14 pkhuong: okay thanks, I was making that a lot more complicated than it needed to be 19:13:43 pkhuong: plus most of a phone switch (especially sip) is text parsing. 19:13:48 Snamich: it's purely a performance annotation. 19:13:59 erlang and strings aren't happy playmates. 19:14:26 I believe that's changed, with third party bytestring libraries (much like ghc) 19:14:39 i expected libs would fill the gap. 19:15:53 Starting from a premise that syntax is a barrier to entry that should be avoided, I'd expect to end up with a project that uses python (e.g. with something like twisted) or javascript (like node.js), not CL. 19:16:13 no, if that were the case i'd write it in ruby. 19:16:23 but ruby would be horrible for that task. 19:16:45 the designers of erlang should, perhaps, have made it a little less _pointy_ 19:16:46 i do believe lisp for such a long-running mission critical process is a decent choice. 19:16:50 Starting from a premise that syntax is a barrier to entry that should be avoided, I'd expect to end up with a search for a telepathic computer system. 19:17:02 it looks unpleasant, and is rather offputting :) 19:17:12 astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-19.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:17:16 nyef: feasability usually becomes a hard constraint at some point 19:17:25 Yes, exactly. 19:17:36 i'm not going to start a project in a language that i'm not comfortable with, and I don't really want to get comfy with erlang. 19:18:14 hm 19:18:33 Do I get it right, that I do not need to run hunchentoot for using mod_lisp? 19:18:47 Lis: that's right. 19:18:51 Lis: and vice versa. 19:18:52 Lis: hunchentoot with mod_lisp isn't even recommended. 19:19:15 *nyef* would be surprised if mod_lisp itself was still recommended. 19:19:35 pkhuong Is that written somewhere on the mod_lisp site? I do not really find a doc or howto on it. 19:20:04 Lis: you should probably look in hunchentoot's documentation for that sort of information. 19:20:11 ah 19:21:17 Lis: http://xach.livejournal.com/144475.html has a bit more info about mod_lisp 19:21:30 wasn't support for mod_lisp dropped a while back, actually? 19:21:47 in the great big hunchentoot revamp 19:21:57 *rsynnott* is _still_ on the old vsn... 19:23:12 Lis: if you're using hunchentoot these days, you probably don't want to use mod_lisp 19:23:25 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:59 rsynnott but the problem is I did not find a working cms written in lisp for hunchentoot. I would use it but I need a cms to maintain my site. I want to use lisp for a completely different project and writing a cms in it is not what I would want to do. 19:26:31 Is there a cms for mod_lisp 19:26:32 ? 19:26:53 No. But with mod_lisp my site is still reachable while developing in lisp for the web 19:27:03 Hm 19:27:39 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:27:44 I don't see the connection. 19:28:01 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:28:16 maybe Lis thinks you can't run different web-servers at the same time 19:28:28 *drewc* thinks Lis is confused, but doesn't quite understand what Lis is confused about 19:28:39 No but my school has blocked all ports with exception to port 80... 19:29:11 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-119.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 19:29:24 Lis: the normal solution to that is to use mod_proxy in apache 19:29:39 ah?!? 19:29:42 Cool thanks 19:29:43 Lis: proxy over to hunchentoot, bob's your uncle. 19:30:06 "Uncle Bob?" 19:30:09 alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 19:30:17 you want what's known as a "reverse proxy" 19:30:30 *Xach* uses nginx in that role for wigflip.com 19:30:50 there is LFE, if you want Erlang with Lispish syntax 19:32:32 Okay, I have a function that has been DEFKNOWNed as taking no arguments and returning (VALUES). Does my VOP need anything beyond a :policy and :translate clause? 19:33:39 Sound all really great but I think i still stick with mod_lisp so I can completely ommit hunchentoot. 19:34:15 nyef: I think you still need an empty :results clause. 19:34:35 (and args) 19:34:38 Lis: that doesn't sound reasonable 19:35:06 Hrm. Okay, guess I'll look further, then. Thanks. 19:35:07 stassats this does: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/190480/apache-mod-lisp-clisp 19:35:14 Do I also need a :generator clause? 19:35:17 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:28 also. membar vops? 19:35:39 Yeah. 19:35:44 Lis: no 19:35:53 Lis: do you want to be constrained to clisp, though? 19:36:07 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:10 I don't think there's really an up-to-date mod_lisp thing for anything else right now 19:36:19 what's wrong with poor old hunchentoot, anyway? :( 19:36:26 -!- rgrau [~user@208.64.70.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:36 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-182-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:47 Xach: quicklisp motivated me to fix the type declaration in string-case. 19:36:56 pkhuong: yay! 19:37:00 It should work with fill-pointerful strings, now. 19:37:24 sellout [~greg@12.189.144.233] has joined #lisp 19:37:27 *Krystof* starts sbcl-release 19:37:46 Xof: congrats. Thanks! 19:38:10 pkhuong: same url? 19:38:14 did we even amend the defknown for close ? 19:38:18 Xach: yup. 19:38:38 and write and write-to-string are still broken? 19:39:03 *Xach* is pleased to see quicklisp inspiring some fixes & updates 19:39:21 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 19:39:21 -!- sellout [~greg@12.189.144.233] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:31 Hrm. %verify-arg-count returns (values) and doesn't take :results or :result-types parameters. 19:40:10 is it directly ir2 translated? 19:40:11 Hah, I was going to add a cache to md5-file, but ironclad is too fast to even bother. 19:40:35 sb-md5 should be even faster 19:40:37 Not mentioned as such in ir2tran.lisp. 19:41:42 Looks like it's inserted in locall.lisp for passing to ir1-convert-lambda, so no. 19:42:14 looking at VOP-PARSE, we have sane defaults and don't need to specify empty args/result clauses 19:43:10 Hun [~hun@95-89-68-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:30 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:45:38 actually, ironclad is as fast as ironclad 19:46:17 it is exactly as fast as ironclad. 19:46:35 and also as fast as sb-md5 19:46:49 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:46:58 I don't remember seeing anything in the wild that uses sb-md5. 19:48:36 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 how does it compare to md5sum(1)? 19:48:53 i guess sb-md5 on files can be sped up by using mmap 19:49:33 write, write-to-string and close are as they were 19:50:06 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:32 stassats: read-sequence should be just as good. 19:50:47 lichtblau: 3x slower (0.15 vs 0.05) on a 8MB file, here. 19:51:00 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 *Xach* can live with 0.15 for an 8MB file 19:51:05 -!- drocamor [~drocamor@69.38.250.60] has left #lisp 19:51:30 pkhuong: does read-sequence read by words, not bytes? 19:51:43 stassats: I expect it reads by sequence. 19:52:41 i see it uses ansi-stream-read-byte 19:52:55 -!- e-future is now known as Sergio` 19:52:55 stassats: only in slow path 19:52:57 s 19:56:05 anyway, i'll just see how it compares 19:56:52 3x sounds reasonable indeed... on a Lisp which can do that 19:57:00 *lichtblau* is used to the out-of-line-bignum-arithmetic on Allegro and calls out to sha1sum(1) to avoid that 19:58:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 I think I'm in love with quicklisp. 19:59:45 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:45 Xach: thank you. 19:59:51 You're what? 20:00:04 <3 quicklisp 20:00:08 *Xach* blushes 20:00:33 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757b7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:02 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:03:06 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 20:06:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:05 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:08:10 md5 and sha1 are broken and not to be used for new programs. What about using tthsum or sha512, or some such? 20:08:42 (or if you think attacks don't matter, why not use CRC32?) 20:10:34 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 20:10:42 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@161.210.164.210] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 20:12:29 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 20:13:33 -!- _fogus_ [fogus@devio.us] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:15:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:23 timor [~timor@port-92-195-118-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:34 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 20:20:38 http://paste.lisp.org/+2EGF 20:21:16 paste has an elisp fncn to `quicklisp-find-slime' 20:21:35 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:46 -!- metaperl [~IceChat7@n00.bcrtfl01.us.wh.nameservers.net] has quit [Quit: Now if you will excuse me, I have a giant ball of oil to throw out my window] 20:21:48 what is quicklisp? 20:21:53 google just shows me lisp tutorials 20:24:17 -!- thunk|away is now known as thunk 20:26:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:28:28 we need a lisp linkfarm 20:29:19 bougyman: www.quicklisp.org 20:29:35 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:31:39 thx 20:32:39 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 20:36:08 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:08 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:39:15 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are n] 20:39:45 super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:14 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:41:25 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:03 super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:08 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9F4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:15 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42:18 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 This is the first time I hear about Quicklisp, sounds interesting. Is there a public code repo? 20:43:35 No public code repo. 20:43:56 Will be? 20:44:15 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:44:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:32 *hefner* is relieved, mixed the name up with one of the several toy lisp implementations which have gotten attention recently 20:44:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 20:44:56 jga: yes. i hope to have something for public consumption sometime soon. 20:45:33 nice :) 20:50:44 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:15 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-108-240.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:20 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:54:25 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:54:55 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:55:25 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:26 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-205-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:53 4 tests failed out of 8,468 total tests. Dang. I guess I messed something up. 20:59:06 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-205-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:14 is there an embeddable purely functional lisp in CL ? 20:59:53 billitch: no 21:00:07 read "safe to let any users play with" 21:00:14 nope 21:00:23 ? 21:00:28 any toy scheme implementation 21:00:32 drewc: herep 21:00:33 just remove some bits 21:00:35 There's been attempts to sandbox lisp in the past. None of them seem to have quite succeeded. 21:00:47 sure, it's fairly easy to write a sandboxed lisp from scratch 21:01:02 but there's not one built in 21:01:07 sykopomp: well, except for OS-level jails 21:01:16 pkhuong: well, right. 21:01:26 pkhuong: in a lisp os ? 21:01:37 billitch: no, in a regular *nix. 21:02:07 afaik, Lisp Machines were notoriously open and trusting ;) 21:02:54 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-205-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:57 i read ITS was more than trusting.. =) 21:04:05 actually i think i'm looking for ML with symbolic expressions 21:04:23 what's the short form for 'evaluated' 21:04:27 tayloj [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:40 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:04 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 i miss static type checking too often 21:06:05 i read there was an implementation of ML in lisp but could not find it anywhere 21:08:03 billitch: the first MLs were in lisp. I don't think anyone's maintaining an implementation nowadays. 21:08:59 pkhuong: do you know if the source of these first MLs is available somewhere ? 21:09:05 nope. 21:09:24 leo2007: eval'd? 21:09:35 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:40 billitch: Qi maybe 21:11:33 minion: paste 112053? 21:11:33 Paste number 112053: "Memory barriers" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/112053 21:11:40 I feel... celebratory. 21:12:40 gigamonkey: thanks. 21:13:10 -!- Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.82.52] has quit [] 21:13:24 astalla: Qi looks promising, is it used already ? 21:13:39 or usable =) 21:13:56 I don't know, I don't use it :) 21:13:58 billitch: some people use it. 21:14:00 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179160116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:14:43 nyef: do you have the #!+ hack? 21:15:14 Probably not, a couple of these instances are stock sbcl. 21:15:31 it seems to respond to my intuition of a better-than-cl language, and is written in cl =) 21:16:13 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-29.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:18 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:16:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@chello213047069075.1.13.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:16:42 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-118-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:45 billitch: Arc does that to some people. 21:16:47 ;) 21:16:57 although Arc is written in mzscheme, instead. 21:16:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-118-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:41 arc has static type checking, currying etc ? 21:18:07 well, no, but it responds to some people's intuition of a 'better-than-cl' language. 21:18:18 it has partial application and function composition, though! 21:18:25 Arc is quite revolutionary in that way. 21:18:31 billitch: typed scheme has static type checking! 21:18:36 sorry, I'm being cheeky :) 21:18:50 pkhuong: with static type checking for variable-arity functions, to boot! 21:18:51 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-68-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:30 how does your lisp program interact with user? 21:20:43 leo2007: whose? 21:20:50 in general. 21:20:58 sykopomp: i prefer my intuition than some people's, and function composition, isn't that why we have closures and HOFs.. ? 21:21:22 it looks like emacs or the web browser is the 'usual' choice. 21:21:25 billitch: I was being cheeky, and we all do prefer our own intuitions. 21:21:52 leo2007: Or the command line, or mouse and keyboard events from the window manager. 21:22:15 sykopomp: i don't know arc, please feed the troll =) 21:22:53 but Qi seems like what i was looking for since months 21:23:07 billitch: Qi is supposedly usable. I haven't gotten around to using it, myself. 21:23:37 I think you can use the underlying Lisp while using Qi, too. 21:23:52 the author of Qi abandoned it, no? 21:24:19 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:22 once 21:24:45 then he came back, enlightened by free software. 21:25:39 sykopomp: I mean if you want to build a nice user-interface for users that may be clueless about lisp. There really isn't much to choose from for common lisp. 21:26:08 leo2007: cl-gtk2 seems to work. There's also cl-opengl, depending on what you're doing. 21:26:47 nyef: do you know where I can find code to translate keycodes and modifiers to characters in a pty? 21:27:02 I have watched the tc-lispers (?) talk on gui and one example used cl-opengl and that actually looked awful. 21:27:06 leo2007: depending on how much portability you need, you can also use McClim. 21:27:24 leo2007: well, that was homebrewed. It really depends on what you need. 21:28:15 If you just want a standard GUI premade, you can use something like ltk or cl-gtk2, which hook up to mature, well-supported GUI systems. 21:28:46 something like this http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fx_files/20032/1/robsim_scrnsht.jpg 21:29:33 *stassats* shaved some milliseconds from sb-md5 by going mmap 21:29:36 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:30:27 Hi, if I want to force a variable to have a certain type, how does one do that. Something like (defvar pi 3.1415 double-float) 21:30:50 (declaim (type double-float pi)) 21:31:13 rpx__: that won't work if it's actually a single-float. 21:31:19 clhs float 21:31:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_float.htm 21:31:22 clhs coerce 21:31:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 21:31:27 either of those functions might be useful. 21:31:55 thanks for all the help,, I will read up on this 21:34:04 0.730 => 0.630, not very impressive 21:34:09 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-99-54-127-246.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:06 pkhuong: so I think I ran into your problem, how can I then set the variable 21:35:38 stassats: and might be a propos here. 21:36:33 pkhuong: and you were right about read-sequence, i eliminated copying altogether to get any speed-up 21:37:06 well, explicit copying, 21:37:26 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 21:39:18 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-114-116.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 at least it conses less 21:43:01 Ah, now I got it to work. Thanks for all the help, have a nice evening 21:43:05 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:24 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:16 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:45:05 Guthur [~michael@host86-160-243-60.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 21:45:18 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:35 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-0-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:40 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:40 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 21:45:42 *stassats* now wonders why he spend two hours on this thing 21:47:45 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-50-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:49:01 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . 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snapshot label too. After some more testing. 23:48:29 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 23:49:44 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.91] has joined #lisp 23:51:45 lispm [~lispm@d177163.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 23:52:32 -!- lispm [~lispm@d177163.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:52 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-125-9.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:53:15 what happened to the pastebot automatic notification? 23:53:36 The bot got deviced due to spam. 23:53:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:53:54 How are things going, btw? 23:53:55 Really? people were spamming the channel using the pastebot? 23:54:00 nyef: don't you potentially need separate load-load, load-store, store-load, and store-store barriers? 23:54:00 Yeah. 23:54:20 Umm... Not according to the linux kernel mode? 23:54:29 did you get the email I sent you? Or did I inadvertently send it to a dead email addr? 23:54:43 Let's go with "dead email addr"? 23:54:54 sigh. 23:54:57 Did you end it to my gmail, or somewhere else? 23:55:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-238.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:06 I should know better than to trust my autocomplete. :) 23:55:12 somewhere else 23:55:21 I will re-send. :) 23:55:41 *nyef* checks his spam folder. 23:56:15 Nope, that's all spam. 23:56:37 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:57:15 baddog [~user@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:57:26 -!- baddog is now known as Guest77767 23:57:52 -!- Guest77767 [~user@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:52 Guest77767 [~user@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 23:58:06 foom: Okay, got it now, thanks. 23:58:10 -!- Guest77767 is now known as baddog