00:00:00 I could probably clean it up on my end by using an absolute pathname to run-sbcl.sh, but why should I? 00:02:14 pnq [asdf@AC828984.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:31 -!- pnq [asdf@AC828984.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:03:42 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@193.1.100.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:12:12 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:12:50 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:12:55 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:03 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:13:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:19 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:15:27 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:18:33 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:03 plage [~user@123.20.90.180] has joined #lisp 00:23:09 Good morning! 00:23:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-83.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:47 morning beach 00:23:54 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:09 Hello plage. 00:24:33 What did I miss? 00:26:36 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:02 Most recently, I see something about opengl on osx, naming choice for clos slot accessors, and relative path problems with run-sbcl.sh. 00:27:41 Thanks! 00:28:15 I think that tomorrow I'd like to settle into trying to sort out memory barriers. 00:28:32 I've had my week off, it's time to get back to making stuff work. 00:28:35 the graveyard is full of the very young and very proud 00:29:11 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-49.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:29 come out only when the thunderstorm has passed 00:29:30 beach: do you still work on gsharp? 00:29:41 bot alert 00:29:43 ? 00:29:57 slyrus: I (or rather a PhD student) will soon. 00:30:28 oh, good. can you (or she) check to see if the clim-gtkairo backend works with it? 00:30:34 (oh, and fix the show-stopping bugs too :) ) 00:30:57 slyrus: I'll think about it. Can you remind me in a week or so? 00:31:03 will do. 00:31:23 yes, all good lisp facualty advisors become street dealers 00:31:29 Okay, I have confirmation that my local environment will build if I use an absolute pathname to refer to run-sbcl.sh. 00:31:52 I've been playing with my chemicl and chemicl-draw stuff again, trying to decide if it's worth continuing to try and roll my own wheels or bite the bullet and use clojure to call CDK. 00:31:55 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-49.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:32:24 slyrus: Is there a public source-control respoitory on those? 00:32:46 (I got interested in chemistry not so long ago, so...) 00:33:05 not yet, but I'll make it so 00:33:16 zophy: Is there something you are trying to tell us? 00:33:20 Cool. Thanks. 00:35:58 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 00:36:12 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:36 ret-2-lib [~hoho@unaffiliated/ret] has joined #lisp 00:44:10 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 nyef: the chemicl-draw stuff isn't up there yet, but chemicl is: http://git.cyrusharmon.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=chemicl.git;a=summary 00:45:12 it requires epigraph: http://git.cyrusharmon.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=epigraph.git;a=summary 00:47:47 Heh. You started chemicl from "scratch.lisp", didn't you? 00:48:11 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:53 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-227-147.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:58 lusory [~bart@bb116-15-201-213.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:49:01 yeah, why? 00:49:26 Just thought it was amusing that we have the same habit. 00:49:38 I did the exact same thing with my game-stuff repository. 00:49:42 I usually start there :) 00:49:56 Start from scratch.lisp, then split stuff out when the file gets too large. 00:50:46 I also tend to later have to split huge files because of how easy it is to work incrementally with CL+slime 00:50:47 actually, I think I usually start with .lisp for code that will stick around and scratch.lisp for code that exercises it 00:51:15 I start with the assumption that I don't know what will stick around. 00:51:28 nyef: any comments/suggestions on epigraph and chemicl would be greatly appreciated. 00:52:05 Well, I have an alternative to your month-old removal of version.lisp-expr from epigraph... 00:52:27 there's still a ton of work to do, but there's a fair amount of functionality there already. I can read in fairly hairy SMILES strings and represent things like chiral atoms, configuration around double bonds, etc... 00:53:27 Does your stuff do orbital calculations? 00:54:44 -!- plage [~user@123.20.90.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:55:00 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 00:57:03 (Gods. The sooner I can properly use my G5, with its nice flat-panel, the better.) 00:58:20 do, it doesn't do any kind of analysis like that. it's (so far) just for representing and manipulating molecules. 00:58:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:19 the idea is to have a nice API to doing chemdraw like stuff without 1) having chemdraw and 2) requiring a UI to "draw" things 00:59:20 -!- ret-2-lib [~hoho@unaffiliated/ret] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:00:00 Ah. 01:00:10 i got hung up on not having 1) parsing representation for chiral compounds 2) ditto for E/Z configuration around double bonds and 3) a decent layout algorithm 01:00:23 1 and 2 are now done. I'm sort of working on 3. 01:00:27 <_3b> hmm, maybe png-read was the wrong library for large .png files 01:00:49 The other missing piece of functionality that would be nice to have would be IUPAC name <--> chemicl data models 01:01:36 One of the things I was thinking of was a frame-based AI system for chemical data, and then reasoning systems over that. 01:02:06 what would you be reasoning about? devising reasonable synthetic schemes for a target molecule? 01:02:14 But I lack quite a bit of the background for it, and keep getting distracted by SBCL work. 01:02:24 I... don't know? 01:07:20 nyef: i just sent you a couple papers 01:08:30 with (skeletons of) cl-bio and chemicl in place the missing piece is a decent 3-d structure library 01:09:00 a pymol-like in CL would be nice 01:09:34 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:20 Cool, thanks. 01:11:09 So, a 3d molecule viewer? 01:11:22 yeah, that would be part of it 01:11:49 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:36 And your chemicl-draw fits into this, how? 01:13:42 Just 2d drawing? 01:14:23 it doesn't exactly fit into the 3d molecule viewing stuff, but it's another piece of the puzzle that I would like 01:14:56 yeah, just 2d drawing 01:15:22 medchem, not structural biology 01:16:19 of course having made the compounds one would design with chemicl-draw, getting the structure of the compound to the receptor is often a logical next step 01:17:43 I guess the basic parts are finding the coordinates for a 3d representation of a molecule, and then the actual rendering. 01:18:54 yeah, I have (once again) the skeleton of a PDB (Protein Data Bank) file parser. Wouldn't be much work to add parsing the coordinates out of that and putting that in some sort of suitable representation for drawing. 01:19:46 it's in cl-bio/io/pdb.lisp 01:20:05 here's a sample file: http://git.cyrusharmon.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=cl-bio.git;a=blob;f=data/1K4C.pdb;h=ab6ca8d1dec62389f4703e50137fa82919dacbc8;hb=HEAD 01:21:19 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:22 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-239-47.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:25 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:27:06 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 01:27:20 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:49 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:09 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 01:30:32 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:31:06 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:31:13 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:31:15 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:26 Eek. Looks like something I'd expect to see in an RPG program. 01:31:53 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.247.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:32:08 1977 called. it wants its file format back. 01:32:52 ... I've worked with RPG code as recently as last year. 01:33:08 Wow, I take it back... PDB was started in 1971! 01:33:18 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:01 slyrus: would you like a node-oriented XML file (not attribute-oriented) with descriptive tag names? ;D 01:35:07 baddog_e` [~user@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:38:42 sure, that would be nice. but the data i want is all in this format... 01:39:38 *slyrus* thinks monitors should have a built in level at the top 01:40:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:40:42 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 01:45:21 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:47:39 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:21 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:57:45 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:58:09 Well, it's got coordinates and connection information... 01:58:17 yup 01:58:28 Shouldn't be too hard to throw at least a wireframe together. 01:58:55 that would be nifty 01:59:27 Not sure about some of the other pymol image modes, though. 02:01:00 zzux [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 02:02:18 -!- zzux [~user@200.92.19.47] has left #lisp 02:02:51 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:03:20 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.168.140] has joined #lisp 02:08:06 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:44 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 02:12:43 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:04 madnificent 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[~Recursive@96-42-84-114.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:57 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:02:42 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:06:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:34 PaulWhoIsAGhost [~linus@h-98-104-223-242.ip.alltel.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:46 plage [~user@123.20.90.209] has joined #lisp 05:08:52 G'day! 05:09:34 xin chao buôi tôi plage 05:09:43 Greetings! 05:10:01 (did google translate get that right?) 05:10:03 slyrus: Impressive! 05:10:37 slyrus: I don't know that one actually says that, but I understand it as good evening. 05:11:00 score .5 points for google translate then :) 05:12:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:14:48 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:16:15 -!- madnificent 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[~leo@r190-135-34-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:51:22 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-49.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:26 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-253-195.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 08:02:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:02:34 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-119-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:03:04 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:14:15 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@host-78-64-88-135.homerun.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:13 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:16:41 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has joined #lisp 08:17:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:32 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.196.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:18:56 timor [~timor@port-92-195-218-82.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:24:16 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:25:48 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:11 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:29:27 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-244-2.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:00 hello how can I find a vriable,parameter,constant by symbol ? 08:31:19 clhs symbol-value 08:31:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm 08:32:19 thx again stassats , do you work enen on Sunday :) ? 08:32:50 i don't work in #lisp! 08:33:13 hehe 08:33:48 me too, ... but one day I'd like to work in CL. 08:35:16 stassats, sorry I didn't explained me well, I'd like to know is a symbol has been defined by defvar, defparameter or defconstant 08:35:46 defvar and defparameter define the same 08:36:14 clhs constantp 08:36:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_consta.htm 08:36:54 though it doesn't work on symbols 08:37:14 but there's (sb-cltl2:variable-information 'pi) 08:39:30 (sb-cltl2:variable-information 'clonsigna:+debug+) -> :special ? 08:40:48 plage [~user@123.20.90.209] has joined #lisp 08:40:53 Good afternoon! 08:40:54 how can I know if a symbol is a parameter/var then ? 08:41:09 by exclusion ? 08:41:45 hello plage 08:42:02 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:42:05 hi plage 08:42:30 xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 08:42:42 kiuma: there is no parameter/var distinction 08:43:05 defparameter and defvar define special variables 08:43:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:46 stassats`, I've understood that there is no parameter/var distinction, but I like to know if there is a var/par with that symbol 08:46:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-7-97.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:46:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-7-97.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:52 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:54:24 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:32 kiuma: the traditional way of spotting special variables is to look at the symbol name 08:55:21 antifuchs, ?? I'm just rewriting another api generator 08:56:03 for programmatic checking whether a symbol is a special variable, try BOUNDP and handle the UNBOUND-VARIABLE condition. 08:56:21 I see that documentation function can do much, but I waswondering if there was another way to identify a var by symbol 08:56:29 or rather, symbol-value 08:56:41 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 ah (: 08:56:54 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:54 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 08:56:59 :) 08:57:06 it's the value :) 08:57:32 mm.... 08:57:47 -!- plage [~user@123.20.90.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:04 plage [~user@123.20.90.209] has joined #lisp 08:58:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:58:30 boundp doesn't help 09:03:49 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:03:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:05:25 m`` [~m@usealice.org] has joined #lisp 09:07:37 -!- plage [~user@123.20.90.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:04 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-244-2.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 09:11:48 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:13:25 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 09:15:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:16:54 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755000.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:48 drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-128-72.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:20:40 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-128-72.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 09:26:39 phromo [phromo@c-82c0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:31:02 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:32:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:57 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:34:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:36:50 xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 09:36:53 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 -!- thunk [~thunk@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:42:46 huh 09:43:02 why is redefining CL symbols in FLET forbidden? 09:43:26 clhs 11.2.1.2.1 09:43:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 11.2.1.2.1. 09:43:37 i never remember it :( 09:44:11 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 09:44:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 09:44:52 stassats: that answers "if", not "why" 09:44:54 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 09:45:09 why should it be allowed? 09:46:00 it is allowed to bind symbols which are not functions 09:46:02 because it's lexical? 09:46:12 but with functions, you'll only get confusion 09:46:17 howso? 09:46:29 how so what? 09:47:01 how would it result in confusion? 09:47:17 that's not the only way you can shadow built-in symbols 09:47:45 mathrick: that will add confusion as well 09:48:19 maybe i'm easily confused 09:48:26 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss214_w.htm <-- hmm, the example here is a good explanation 09:48:49 though the same issue arises with any other macro, really, not only the standard ones 09:49:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:48 well, in case of standard functions i wouldn't get an incentive to look up what that function does 09:50:58 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:51:13 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:51:20 haskel 09:51:32 oops, sorry, wrong window 09:51:44 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:53:44 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:55:55 The value 0.0 is not of type 09:55:55 (OR (SINGLE-FLOAT (0.0)) (DOUBLE-FLOAT (0.0d0)) (INTEGER 1)). 09:55:55 [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR] 09:55:57 really now? 09:57:16 really 09:57:24 your type specifiers are wrong 09:57:44 should be (OR (SINGLE-FLOAT 0.0) (DOUBLE-FLOAT 0.0d0) (INTEGER 1)) 09:58:03 tell that to SBCL :) 09:58:09 I'm not specifying any types 09:58:27 well, then you need to show your code 09:59:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111908 10:00:20 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 10:01:02 clhs random 10:01:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_random.htm 10:01:17 mathrick: "a positive ..." 10:02:31 though, the error message is broken 10:05:19 stassats: I don't understand what (single-float (0.0)) would even mean 10:06:11 oh, a singleton list is allowed in the syntax 10:06:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 10:08:16 random has a better error message but it's not reached because of the type definition 10:09:17 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:21 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:12:43 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:42 -!- phromo [phromo@c-82c0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:18:11 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-19-63.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:22:00 billitch [~billitch@78.250.83.114] has joined #lisp 10:24:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:26:54 mathrick: we reported the same bug 10:28:13 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:28:46 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.146.178] has joined #lisp 10:31:58 md1 [~user@85-135-143-91.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 10:32:20 -!- coyo is now known as SleepingCoyo 10:36:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:41:44 segv [~mb@p54BE737B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:40 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:45:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:48:42 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:03:49 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:44 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:07:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-43-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:09:42 md1` [~user@85-135-133-178.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 11:11:27 -!- md1 [~user@85-135-143-91.adsl.slovanet.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:31 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:14:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:20:40 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.83.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:30:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:30:29 -!- md1` [~user@85-135-133-178.adsl.slovanet.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:34:12 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-19-63.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:28 Using, at least, SBCL for scripts is totally frustrating, if not so say purely annoying. 11:39:29 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:39:29 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:39:29 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:40:46 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-53-161.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:43:33 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 11:45:20 tcr: because of what? 11:45:57 i didn't consider using CL for short scripts because of start-up time 11:47:30 it's pretty impossible to get it to shuddup to uninteresting parts of code 11:48:06 stassats: Yeah that, too, although core files help a bit. Still start up time is not that a big issue for long-running backround scripts. 11:48:51 redirect *standard-output* and *error-output* and write your output to *terminal-io*? 11:49:20 I want to hear about warnings in my own code 11:49:43 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:50:44 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:52:31 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:57:08 xan_ [~xan@dsl51B7D979.fixip.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:01:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:02:37 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:04:09 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has joined #lisp 12:04:41 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@dsl51B7D979.fixip.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:10:07 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:54 fiveop [~fiveop@g229078218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:57 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:35 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:22:36 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 12:22:52 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:24 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:30:24 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:22 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:33:49 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:39:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:41:13 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.4/20100611134546]] 12:46:50 stassats: duped my bug 12:47:54 yeah, i saw 12:50:46 it's pretty impossible to get it to shuddup to uninteresting parts of code <-- yeah, SBCL is kinda impossible in this regard 12:51:18 especially controlling the compiler warnings is an exercise in futility 12:52:05 -!- SleepingCoyo [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:14 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:35 G'morning all. 12:56:57 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:05 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 hmm, it seems that care is required when increasing the arguments to a function consing exponentially 13:06:42 ... I can't parse that. 13:07:28 nyef: (divs 5)  (divs 100), divs creates 2^(n-1) lists 13:07:34 Ah. 13:07:43 fortunately there's a heap limit in SBCL 13:07:48 Yeah, care is required when increasing -any- exponential parameter. 13:08:31 bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:59 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:51 incidentally, does anyone know software that'd let me analyse PDF/PS easily for some statistical properties of the text? 13:10:04 more specifically, I need to estimate the number of paragraphs per page 13:10:20 s/estimate/count/ 13:10:40 hmm 13:10:50 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:11:18 mathrick: cl-pdf has a pdf parser 13:11:29 ah, good to know 13:11:52 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:59 now, I wonder if I really need to do that, or if I should just go with plain text sources and count a pages as 2KB or something 13:13:14 I need to have a reasonable estimate of the biggest number of paragraphs I'm likely to encounter in the wild, and the motivation to do it on PDFs is that they often have columns and small type. But if you think about it, a column is a page for my purposes, really 13:14:40 A more accurate estimate with plain text would be fixed-width lines (say 35 characters) and so many lines per page. Even more accurate, weight the characters for variable widths. 13:14:58 Two KB / page is more than a bit arbitrary. 13:16:11 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:16:11 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 13:16:11 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:16:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:53 nyef: true 13:17:39 you wouldn't know a comprehensive corpus of written text in a wide range of subject areas, would you? 13:17:55 Project Gutenburg? 13:18:38 does project gutenberg have technical papers? 13:18:40 Or the various NLP corpora. 13:18:49 I don't know. 13:18:57 wikipedia? 13:19:05 Probably none from before about 1900, though... 13:19:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:19:17 you can download wikipedia dumps 13:19:52 stassats: good idea 13:21:44 mathrick: try going for ~2000 letters per page 13:21:56 iirc 13:22:05 that's what I said above with 2KB 13:22:11 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 13:22:38 -!- segv [~mb@p54BE737B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: segv] 13:23:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:55 ferada [~user@g224146039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:02 mathrick: btw, if you go with cl-pdf reading, document your findings please :) 13:30:27 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:34:07 KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 13:34:34 hi guys, I remember .. is used in lisp, do I recall correctly? it must be somehwhere in loops? 13:34:36 *stassats* imagines people sitting in a circle and saying "hello, my name is stassats and optimize prematurely" 13:35:30 "Hello, my name is nyef, and I don't profile before I optimize." 13:35:31 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:43 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:35:54 any answers for me? 13:36:00 am I mixing it with something else 13:36:11 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest57461 13:36:14 it's not used 13:36:24 thanks 13:36:27 At least, not in common lisp. 13:38:10 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:49 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:27 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:02 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:13 nyef: what did you do? :D 13:45:26 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:42 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:46:15 p_l|backup: Stopped profiling, mainly. 13:46:34 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-218-82.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:05 Really, if you can eliminate two memory references and three instructions from a sequence, isn't that a win? 13:47:52 hah 13:48:27 depends 13:49:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:18 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-114-116.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:48 fuzzy completion isn't fuzzy enoguh 13:54:27 it doesn't ignore typos 13:58:53 nyef: sometimes eliminating extra instructions can make it worse, but I don't think this case might be one of those 13:59:02 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:17 It's not so much the instructions as the memory reference. 14:00:31 timor [~timor@port-92-195-158-130.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:10 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has joined #lisp 14:02:58 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 14:03:57 nyef: well, yeah. It's just that I can see some crazy chip design make it more effective by priming the cache before actual use 14:04:04 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:05:55 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:02 shevek [~shevek@athedsl-196839.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:06:30 -!- shevek is now known as Guest95471 14:06:47 -!- Guest95471 is now known as aperturefever 14:08:19 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: I'm on the highway to he... Oh god, no] 14:21:48 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:29:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:09 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633948.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440867.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:35:00 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 14:37:51 plage [~user@123.16.12.124] has joined #lisp 14:37:55 Good evening! 14:38:37 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:36 Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 14:42:39 Hello plage. 14:43:06 plage: hi 14:43:09 back in europe? 14:43:40 p_l|backup: Not yet. I am at the airport of Hanoi for my transit to Paris. Departure in two hours or so. 14:44:43 ah, so you're already switching timezones, then? :) 14:45:13 p_l|backup: Not quite yet, nos. 14:45:16 *no 14:45:54 just noticed that you used greetings that would fit when you're in europe ^_- 14:46:42 p_l|backup: Possibly, yes. A tad early perhaps. Here, it is more obvious, because it is 21:45 or so. 14:46:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 -!- Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:31 Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 -!- aperturefever [~shevek@athedsl-196839.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:50:05 -!- Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:34 Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:06 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-205.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:15 shevek__ [~shevek@athedsl-196839.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:56:17 -!- shevek__ is now known as aperturefever 14:57:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.146.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:16 gzip4_ [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 14:59:46 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:47 plage` [~user@123.16.4.250] has joined #lisp 15:08:13 -!- plage [~user@123.16.12.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:09:23 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:14 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 15:10:42 plage`` [~user@123.16.11.191] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 -!- KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:09 KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 15:12:11 -!- plage` [~user@123.16.4.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:41 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 -!- KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:31 KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 15:16:57 -!- KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:07 KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 15:19:30 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:20:14 suppose I have two classes, item and monster. Item contains a slot eq-slot (with coresponding accessor) that contains a function which will, when setf'd place an item in the appropriate area of the monster. (e.g. the weapon subclass contains #'weapon ... armor has #'armor, etc) and I can't figure out how to get setf to get the appropriate setf-dunction dynamically (specifically from a slot) 15:21:15 -!- KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:26 krzysz00: why do you need to do this this way, can't you use generic function and specialize on subclasses? 15:21:34 Right, and that would be because... you don't actually know how SETF works? 15:21:39 KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 15:21:53 you mean you want (funcall (fdefinition '(setf method)) arguments) ? 15:23:01 -!- Guest57461 is now known as pkhuong 15:23:11 *p_l|backup* would instead make an "equipment protocol" that would describe operations done match apriopriate slot to item 15:23:22 much simpler 15:24:33 plage``` [~user@123.16.17.120] has joined #lisp 15:25:08 *p_l|backup* ponders on how to order a chaos in CLOS 15:25:28 p_l|backup: I was trying to avoid n+1 generic functions 15:25:39 -!- KucukMubasir [~Ozgur@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has left #lisp 15:25:51 -!- bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:00 krzysz00: you are actually increasing complexity with your example 15:26:01 krzysz00: you do realize you can dispatch on multiple arguments, right? 15:26:29 -!- plage`` [~user@123.16.11.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:26:31 I guess the whole trickery is useless. Thank you. 15:26:46 and you can use data about classes in order to create dynamic matching code that would be included in one of the methods 15:27:24 krzysz00: Another possibility is to define a setf-function or setf-expander that pulls a method from a setf-eq-slot slot. 15:31:50 You know ... a macro that expands into a defmethod with the correct name in all the right places will work 15:32:26 has anyone used cells, computed-class or Garnet's code in heavily multithreaded environment, without locking which event is active? 15:33:00 p_l|backup: it does sound like hell (: 15:34:03 pkhuong: at some point I started looking into putting a "current transaction" counter in each object, which corresponds to transaction-number in object describing observed event as it propagates :D 15:35:08 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:58 p_l|backup: iiuc, rule systems mostly parallelise the search part, and not the actual execution of rules. 15:36:26 I want to parallelize the execution :) 15:36:39 (it's for GUI, kind of) 15:37:05 concurrency or parallelism? 15:37:52 more like concurrency, with possibility of parallelism in some cases (but not explicitly necessary) 15:38:09 I guess you can use the computed class machinery to insert instrumentation and implement STM. 15:38:18 -!- plage``` is now known as plage 15:38:22 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 aw [~aw@186.81-166-214.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:31 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E372.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:22 -!- plage [~user@123.16.17.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:56 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/2010031700]] 15:55:39 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 benny` [~user@i577A1845.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:54 thunk [~thunk@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 16:04:34 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:11 -!- benny [~user@i577A20E3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:51 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:36 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.154.57] has joined #lisp 16:11:10 Hi everyone. I try to install hunchentoot on sbcl but if I execute (asdf-install:install :hunchentoot) the installation stops with the error package "MOP" not found. Does someone know how to solve this? 16:11:52 it tries to install Lift 16:11:58 don't use asdf-install 16:12:04 minion: please tell Lis about clbuild 16:12:05 Lis: please look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:12:05 use clbuild or quicklisp 16:12:27 is quicklisp ready for consumption? 16:12:47 ... Does asdf-install suffer from consumption? 16:12:54 stassats: not much but it afaik works somehow 16:13:01 nyef: is asdf-install even alive? 16:13:11 People keep -using- it. 16:13:41 If we put about that it has tuberculosis then perhaps they won't? 16:13:57 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:38 nyef: I suggest AIDS. It adds the whole mental stigma created by uneducated madness :) 16:15:05 But that doesn't let the "consumption" joke work. 16:15:47 it will work for the majority 16:16:24 nyef: I dunno about majority, but as a non-native english speaker, I didn't know the meaning of "tuberculosis" for a long, long time 16:17:42 oh, now i get it 16:18:06 nyef: you could also go for the cancer joke 16:18:11 S/joke/meme/ 16:18:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:20:57 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:20 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:27 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 16:30:58 hm, so what should I use instead of asdf-install 16:31:38 you were already told 16:33:14 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:38 k thanks 16:33:49 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:35:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:38:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:28 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:41:11 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:55 -!- thunk|away is now known as thunk 16:48:03 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:24 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E372.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:49:29 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.84.196.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:53:23 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:53 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:08:07 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:10 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:11 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 17:09:38 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:37 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:17:17 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E372.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:45 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:40 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 -!- Aferlak12_ [~Aferlak12@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:15 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:48 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:28:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:17 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:32:41 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:35 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 17:35:33 -!- cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:05 Axius [~hi@92.84.6.158] has joined #lisp 17:37:38 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@193.1.100.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:41:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42:16 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:43:42 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:07 Xach: i've been meaning to ask you this for quite a while: do you log the searches in the naggum archive? 17:50:48 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:13 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-105-68.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:56:05 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-43.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:54 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:59:25 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:50 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E372.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:04 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:07:53 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.154.57] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:07:56 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:04 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:09:29 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:10:04 Is there something wrong with this line: (:shadowing-import-from #:collate . #. (collate::external-symbols))) Is there supposed to be a space after the second dot? 18:10:33 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:10:54 lat_: doesn't matter if there's a space after #. 18:11:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:10 pkhuong, thanks. What is causing this error: " compiling (IN-PACKAGE :COMMON-LISP-USER)ASDF could not load laturk-unique because The function COLLATE::EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS is undefined.." 18:13:56 lat_: looks like the function collate::external-symbols is undefined. 18:14:44 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 18:14:47 COLLATE::EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS is a package, not a function, no? 18:15:15 it's a function. 18:15:23 clhs #. 18:15:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 18:17:08 dlowe1 [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:50 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:22:03 -!- aperturefever [~shevek@athedsl-196839.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:25:09 pkhuong, thanks. Should that line even be in my packages.lisp file? What does that line do? 18:25:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:19 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:35 it uses collate::external-symbols to splice in all the external symbols in the package COLLATE. 18:31:08 you have to load all of COLLATE before loading laturk-unique. 18:31:18 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.77] has joined #lisp 18:32:46 daniel [~daniel@p5082EC6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:59 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082C8C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:02 CL-USER> (find-package 'collate) yields # , so the package is compiled and available. Why is it not working? Perhaps my laturk-unique.asd file is incorrect? 18:38:00 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:38:45 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.6.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:54 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:15 lat_: the package was created. It doesn't mean all the code in the system was loaded, or that the function exists in your version of the system. 18:49:48 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:02 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.52.100] has joined #lisp 18:54:58 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:52 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:40 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:49 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet5072.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:08:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:14 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-246.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:09 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:12:34 danishman [~test@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:13:52 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:14:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:20 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet5072.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:20 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-119-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:15:48 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 19:16:08 -!- danishman [~test@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has left #lisp 19:16:36 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:17:13 pkhuong, thanks to you, I'm past that problem. At least I'm now getting a different error message. But I need to read some docs before I ask any more questions here. 19:19:17 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4966.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:21:03 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:21:43 Is anyone here located in S.E. Asia? 19:22:34 -!- Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:23:29 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:11 sad0ur [~sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 19:25:26 jgracin_ [~jgracin@vipnet790.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:26:34 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4966.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:25 -!- erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:30:55 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:31 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:35:58 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:25 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229078218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:40:29 lat_: tcr and I are in Kuala Lumpur for the moment 19:40:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:13 -!- jgracin_ [~jgracin@vipnet790.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:45:14 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 19:51:50 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.77] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. 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quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:14 l_n [~not_you@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 22:20:17 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:28 -!- l_n [~not_you@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has left #lisp 22:24:01 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-244-249.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:21 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-110-158.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:09 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 22:43:42 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:43:42 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:21 p_l|backup: state machines ftw! 22:47:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:08 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDAA633.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:47:19 pkhuong: what I had in mind would be probably called "workflow engine" or some other fancy name for state machine they have these days :P 22:47:33 vieq [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has joined #lisp 22:48:58 well, this is an awesomely convoluted hack, but I'm finally able to get at the raw bits from my bluetooth keyboard on the iPad. 22:49:34 Hello, question that has been killed searching and answered so many times over the years, how to start programming 22:49:59 well I was talking to a programmer for the past couple of days, and there are some new thoughts about suggestions 22:50:15 Pike, for entry level the C/C++/Java or what ever 22:50:20 <_3b> step 1: read something, step 2: program something, step 3: go to step 1 22:50:23 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:28 Scheme or Lisp then what ever 22:50:56 _3b: google showed me so many choices, and I always say a noob won't see any difference 22:51:26 <_3b> well, unless you are planning to perform a double blind test on a bunch of new programmers, i doubt we can improve that by much 22:51:32 it's just he said something and tend to believe him cause I have no other opinions to match 22:51:44 vieq: try SICP 22:51:48 _3b: no, it's for personal usage and profit 22:51:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:52:01 <_3b> those goals have different strategies 22:52:01 Hi everyone. I recompiled clisp with multithreading support. I try to run hunchentoot. If I start hunchentoot and try to visit the empty site the lisp process consumes 100% cpu and my browser keeps loading the site. Does someone know this problem? 22:52:21 m``: will be googling a sec 22:52:28 _3b: here is what he said 22:52:29 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:37 "In terms of studying programming, I guess, your best starting point is to pick what end to attack the problem from, The best place to begin, is likely the high or low level of programming languages (by modern standards), 40 years ago, C would have been as high level as Ruby, The lower level languages give you a better understanding of the machine you're programming, the higher level languages give you better constructs to think with; there's not much choice of la 22:52:38 nguage that offers both I'm afraid" 22:52:46 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:52:48 vieq: just dont learn any php or delphi or whatever 22:52:51 and please 22:52:54 dont learn c++ 22:53:07 C++ is going to die? 22:53:23 I pray for that 22:53:24 <_3b> if you want to learn to be a good programmer, find some goal that would motivate you to program, then pick a language appropriate for that task... if you want profit, either do same thing and shoot for startup, or focus on marketability 22:53:31 yes... and the world ends 2012... 22:53:35 anyone? 22:53:42 p_l|backup: so, tell us about that state machine of yours. 22:53:42 it's just so ugly comparing to other languages 22:54:00 _3b: you're missing the point, read his words I wanna match those requirements 22:54:23 <_3b> vieq: high level and low level at the same time? 22:54:31 one at each 22:54:52 <_3b> well, obviously since we are in #lisp, the answer is lisp 22:55:01 he finally told me choose any side to start from, easier high or low 22:55:10 lisp for learning or for life? 22:55:15 <_3b> both 22:55:17 Start with SICP than you can read Practical Common Lisp 22:55:42 m``: so many links, any one specific? 22:55:56 _3b: recommended books 22:56:00 <_3b> minion: tell vieq about gentle 22:56:00 vieq: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 22:56:00 both books are freely avaliable online 22:56:19 minion: well do 22:56:19 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 22:56:30 <_3b> minion: tell vieq about sicp 22:56:30 vieq: please look at sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 22:56:42 hello? 22:56:53 <_3b> (but note that SICP uses a subset of scheme, which isn't quite the same as the lisp we talk about here) 22:57:10 <_3b> it is a good book about programming in general though 22:57:15 _3b: that's why I asked for book names 22:57:23 Lis: I believe that you'll find that very few people here use clisp. 22:57:36 mh 22:57:37 Lis: were you able to identify where the endless loop happens? 22:57:38 so I could just grab the hard copy and close the door on my self and start learning 22:58:49 i cant use ccl... becouse no sse2... I do not want to use sbcl becouse it is a mess to install... but it seems there is no other option... so I try sbcl now?!? 22:59:06 pkhuong: regarding my state machine - multiple "smaller" state machines (that can however cause state transitions outside) + event manager which maps events to issuing state changes + CL-STM 22:59:12 Lis: OS tools like ktrace/ktruss/strace could help to see if there are syscalls in that loop; then the clisp debugger should probably give a clue to where it was at if you issue it a break 22:59:27 phadthai well I think it should just work... I do not use custom code... 22:59:29 Lis: I also recommend sbcl over clisp 22:59:45 *_3b* uses sbcl without sse2 22:59:48 Lis: multithreading in clisp is experimental 23:01:50 Hell, multithreading in SBCL is completely unstable on some targets (such as Linux/PPC). 23:01:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:02:06 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:02:08 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 23:02:28 vieq: as for the low level language, I'd probably recommend C, as it's widely used and a smaller language than C++ to start with 23:02:31 I need a new computer... 23:02:42 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:02:46 nyef: and that's when sbcl supports threads for that platform :) 23:03:02 phadthai: recommended for noobs? 23:03:13 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-131.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 23:03:20 thanks _3b & m`` for the links 23:03:27 np :) 23:03:33 phadthai: Right. And I'm not planning to commit that support until I've got the whole memory-barrier thing sorted, because that's a known massive instability. 23:03:36 vieq: then you can also have fun with ECL which allows to easily use C and CL together 23:03:49 "fun" 23:03:50 "easily" 23:03:55 lol 23:03:57 I know that no programmer knows only one lang., my only question is about which of them that builds good foundation 23:04:08 vieq: English 23:04:10 CL? what's that 23:04:11 *_3b* suspects many programmers don't even know 1 language :( 23:04:13 vieq: I find that english makes a good foundation. 23:04:15 Common Lisp 23:04:20 = CL 23:04:24 nyef: so do I 23:04:40 *p_l|backup* wasn't sarcastic - good handling of English language is a great foundation 23:04:50 ah 23:05:41 right, any recommended books other than those on the links? 23:05:56 Other "natural" languages work as well, but English works best in terms of international communication. 23:06:12 French might have worked well a while ago, but not so well these days. 23:06:22 nyef: thought it was money that do that? 23:07:00 *_3b* has wanted to read research papers in japanese, german and french at various points 23:07:09 Money is a value exchange medium, not a communication exchange medium. 23:07:30 Lis: I'm fairly certain you can use SSE2 with CCL when you write LAP. 23:07:32 _3b: Sure, but most of the papers you've wanted to read have been in english, right? 23:07:46 pkhuong ?!? 23:07:51 <_3b> nyef: for most topics, yes 23:07:52 p_l|backup: really not sure about CL-STM.. 23:08:09 <_3b> pkhuong: i thout the goal was to run on a machine without sse2 23:08:18 nyef: perhaps, some times when you show the cash words are useless then 23:08:22 pkhuong: Well, that's what I found so far 23:08:28 ah, no sse2 that way. 23:08:34 :( 23:08:50 Lis: what platform are you running on? 23:09:00 p3 500mhz 23:10:05 <_3b> sbcl works on my p3 450, just avoid compiling it there if possible :) 23:10:18 i just started compiling it... 23:10:25 clisp took about 2 hours 23:10:26 p_l|backup: I'd roll my own, frankly. Given the amount of concurrency we're realistically facing these days, lock-based or single-writer STMs are probably fine. 23:10:31 <_3b> (which it usually is, since x86 linux binaries tend to be recent) 23:10:35 thanks any way guys 23:10:37 -!- vieq [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has left #lisp 23:10:45 Lis: why do you need to compile your own? 23:11:04 becouse they all do not have multithreading support by default 23:11:09 <_3b> Lis: i think an sbcl compile is close to an hour on my 450 23:11:17 Lis: sure about that? 23:11:24 <_3b> linux builds should have it 23:11:56 <_3b> linux x86 that is 23:12:11 :LINUX ??>> :SB-THREAD < ya it is 23:13:46 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:14:17 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:14:36 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:15:30 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:15:57 pkhuong: possible, depends on how coarse-grained I want to make it 23:19:05 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-151-50.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:37 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:26:03 Yeah, sbcl defaults to threading enabled on x86oid linux. 23:26:57 sbcl threads work on windows? 23:27:18 m``: some new patch adds that 23:27:35 is it official? 23:28:43 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:54 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20053D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:11 It's not been committed to the main source repository, no. 23:31:02 :( 23:32:09 what about haskell? is it any good? 23:33:14 i use ccl on windows. Never had problems with it. It just works. 23:34:13 well, sbcl is more powerful, if i recall correctly 23:34:29 it has tail recursion optimisation 23:34:37 haskell is OK, Lis 23:34:45 works OK on windows 23:34:50 :) 23:37:18 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:38:54 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:34 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:48:01 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:20 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 23:57:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-2.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:57:54 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.205] has joined #lisp 23:58:44 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp