00:00:22 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:01 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 00:07:49 pjb: sure 00:08:14 I could see it as both useful to provide a simplified interface for certain applications, and possibly also as a restricted shell/repl 00:08:28 and a good example of a simple interpreter 00:11:21 <_3b> davazp: are you the same davazp having problems with cl-glut examples? 00:14:46 _3b: yes 00:15:32 <_3b> are you sure you have the latest cl-opengl code? 00:17:08 I have a darcs copy some weeks ago. Let me upgrade and retry it 00:17:29 <_3b> you should be using the git version, darcs hasn't been updated in a long time 00:17:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:18:46 _3b: nice, it works now 00:19:22 and using darcs yet. I suppose it works with git too 00:22:05 right, it works. thanks _3b 00:22:34 -!- slyrus____ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:06 <_3b> ok, sorry it took so long to repond to the bug report 00:25:33 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:33 vmmenon_ [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:33 -!- vmmenon_ is now known as vmmenon 00:25:42 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:48 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.153.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:11 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:35 anyway to do this better? http://paste.lisp.org/+2EBK 00:30:09 handling restarts idiomatically from within loop 00:35:00 why do you want to use a restart here 00:35:23 it's how I detect EOF 00:35:56 ? 00:36:00 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: relocating] 00:36:11 FLV file format doesn't indicate file size and doesn't use end markers, so you have to anticipate it in lower-level READ-OCTET* functions 00:36:20 if you signal an error on eof, use handler-case in read-tags 00:36:48 plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has joined #lisp 00:36:54 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:00 Good morning! 00:37:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:07 _danb_ [~user@124-170-209-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:37:11 fusss_ [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:28 (defun read-octet (file) 00:37:28 (handler-bind 00:37:28 ((end-of-file #'(lambda (c) 00:37:28 (invoke-restart 'skip-file)))) 00:37:28 (read-byte file))) 00:37:31 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.1] has joined #lisp 00:38:01 bad 00:38:11 this idiom is straight from PCL and hasn't been questions for years 00:38:24 you're misapplying this "idiom" 00:39:09 this idiot does usually misapply idioms 00:39:11 read-octet should let the end-of-file escape, and read-tags should use handler-case 00:39:37 it's _not_ a good idea to set up a handler each time you read an octet 00:40:01 then, you can eliminate read-octet and use read-byte 00:40:15 read-octet is used all over the place, even by ancillary functions 00:40:39 I hope they have skip-file restarts as well :X 00:41:10 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:41:22 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 00:44:07 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 *_3b* wonders if there are any easy places to hook into swank autodoc without rewriting a bunch of it 00:44:36 handler-bind belongs to "outside code", not to "code that can even locally detect the error" 00:45:21 adeht: thanks, will fix it 00:46:21 i.e. (or (read-byte file nil nil) (invoke-restart 'skip-file)) :X 00:47:16 (just to be clear, that is not my advice about what to do) 00:48:52 <_3b> ah, seems to be a generic function there for that 00:50:27 I also submit these two papers for further meditation: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Exceptional-Situations-1990.html , http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 00:55:52 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: home] 00:57:46 Sukoshi`` [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:16 -!- GrayGnome` [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:50 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:06:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:19:48 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:22:08 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.129.244] has left #lisp 01:23:10 -!- DrForr_YAPC [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:23:55 -!- plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:24:52 DrForr_YAPC [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:29 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-208-213.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:17 What do the periods do here: (:shadowing-import-from #:collate . #. (collate::external-symbols) 01:33:03 Whoops! forgot the closing ) 01:33:20 <_3b> the . by itself is the 'consing dot' 01:33:32 justinnew10 [~justinnew@d27-96-50-20.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:40 <_3b> the #. is a reader macro that evaluates the next form at read time 01:33:45 <_3b> clhs #. 01:33:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 01:34:34 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 01:34:50 -!- justinnew10 [~justinnew@d27-96-50-20.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:58 <_3b> clhs 2.3.3 01:34:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_cc.htm 01:35:17 _3b, thanks! 01:35:37 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:22 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:44:03 <_3b> ah, i guess it doesn't have hooks in the right place :( 01:45:06 <_3b> also assumes operators are symbols, which isn't even valid for plain CL 01:47:42 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:26 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:16 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 01:59:21 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:08 I've got "fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 44935(tid 140735076198144): 02:00:08 invalid magic number in core: 0xf145342434c should have been 0x5342434c." from 1.0.39.21 SBCL 02:00:39 I'm o OSX 10.5.8 02:01:13 Kenjin: if you just need a CL on MacOSX, I'd mention that clisp compiles fine there. 02:02:10 I've installed 1.0.29 from binary and works fine. Was trying out clbuild to get latest sbcl 02:02:46 I never used clbuild either. 02:03:34 ok thanks 02:04:05 Kenjin: for OSX I'd go with CCL still 02:04:24 -!- cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:03 *_3b* suspects you have 32/64 bit mismatch somewhere 02:05:10 drewc: did you get that email? 02:05:10 slyrus__, memo from Fare: please upgrade to 2.003, not to 2.106. 02:06:02 <_3b> or are using the wrong sbcl binary or wrong core file 02:06:16 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-155-215-188.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:32 _3b: binary is working fine 02:06:51 <_3b> not with the wrong core file it doesn't :p 02:07:09 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 02:07:10 _3b: sorry I meant. the sbcl I did not compile 02:07:21 <_3b> i meant you are either using the wrong binary for that core, or the wrong core for that binary 02:07:50 <_3b> or if they match, then something broke in the build 02:08:25 how do I check that? I'm just calling the binary that clbuild placed in /target/bin 02:08:44 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-195-175.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:24 <_3b> did you originally download a 32 or 64bit sbcl? 02:11:04 32 02:11:21 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: need to reboot :-(] 02:11:47 <_3b> does it list any paths in the error message? 02:12:32 nop, just what I pasted above 02:12:53 and sends me right to the LDB 02:13:26 <_3b> are you running it from clbuild or directly? 02:14:08 directly 02:14:21 <_3b> try running clbuild lisp 02:14:30 sweet 02:14:32 works fine 02:14:43 what does this mean? 02:14:47 <_3b> and if that starts, (lisp-implementation-version) to see if it got the right one 02:14:56 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:19 yep, 1.0.39.21 02:15:48 <_3b> ok, probably means that sbcl doesn't know where to find the core file, so it tries to load the old one 02:15:57 _3b: oh 02:16:21 <_3b> you need to specify SBCL_HOME environment var (which clbuild does when you run it through clbuild), or install it where it expects to be installed 02:16:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:17:18 _3b: emacs and slime pick the correct so I think I'm good 02:17:20 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@96-42-84-114.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:03 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-195-175.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:22:56 -!- redline65612 [~yaaic@m435e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 02:23:07 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:23:46 timor2 [~timor@port-92-195-31-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:24:27 _3b`: cl-opengl does not appear to be supported on clbuild. Is this so? 02:25:17 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-103-147.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:31 <_3b> it should be 02:25:40 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-153-108.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:54 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:51 ivory:clbuild josesantos$ ./clbuild install cl-opengl 02:27:52 warning: no dependencies for cl-opengl found 02:27:52 Error: cannot download unknown project cl-opengl 02:28:25 and clbuild list opengl gets me "paste: /tmp/clbuild.8Le6qBKrt4/left: No such file or directory" 02:29:18 plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has joined #lisp 02:29:54 <_3b> try grep cl-opengl wnpp-projects | tail -1 02:30:04 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:45 i get # cl-opengl get_darcs http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cl-opengl/darcs/cl-opengl # FFI bindings for OpenGL (c-l.net project) 02:30:57 and 2 messages of "failed to check URL" 02:31:02 Jasko [~tjasko@pool-96-242-33-71.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:07 <_3b> looks like you might have an old clbuild checkout 02:34:55 can i run clbuild update for clbuild? 02:35:12 *_3b* doesn't know 02:35:31 "unknown project clbuild" :P 02:36:51 <_3b> yeah, that would seem like a reasonable thing for it to know how to do :) 02:37:13 <_3b> i usually use darcs directly to update it, don't remember exactly what the command is though 02:37:19 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:37:25 <_3b> maybe darcs pull 02:37:35 ok 02:38:09 oh i got a version from github 02:38:15 maybe not the latest 02:38:41 <_3b> of clbuild? 02:38:44 yes 02:39:24 <_3b> yeah, looks like the ones on github don't actively mirror it 02:40:48 <_3b> (or at least not actively enough) 02:42:15 is your fork of cl-opengl the most active one? 02:42:31 <_3b> it isn't a fork anymore, it is the official main tree 02:42:43 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:42:53 _3b: great thanks 02:43:13 what are you working on at the moment may I ask 02:44:59 <_3b> supposed to be working on a little web game, but instead got sidetracked trying to make slime autodoc work with parenscript 02:46:35 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.208] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:48:52 _3b: I actually meant what where you working on in cl-opengl if anything at the moment :P 02:49:08 hi 3b 02:49:08 <_3b> nothing at the moment :( 02:49:41 <_3b> manic12: 'lo 02:51:21 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 02:51:32 _3b: I pull clbuild from darcs and copied over the stuff I already installed but I get complaints that the packages where installed with the clbuild from git lol 02:54:22 -!- plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:59:01 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 02:59:01 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:00 -!- pnq [asdf@AC828BF3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:00:12 hi, how can I check whether a slot is unbound or not? I need something like (boundp (slot-value foo 'slot)) 03:00:35 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:39 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:16 <_3b> do CL and elisp READ (@ foo) differently? 03:02:04 ignotus: perhaps you are looking for slot-boundp 03:02:27 rme: yep, thanks! 03:13:48 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:03 <_3b> hmm, i guess emacs assumes @ is part of ,@ 03:17:49 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:12 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:18:12 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:18:12 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 03:20:42 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:42 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:39 hmmm 03:30:03 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:06 _3b, have you ever had any trouble getting a pixel format which supports opengl reasonably on any hardware? (I guess I'm trying to predict the likelyhood of failure in that area) 03:30:09 *fusss* is able to split flash videos into video and audio tracks, not sure why 03:30:19 _3b: still playing with flash? 03:31:05 <_3b> manic12: i leave that stuff to other libraries (usually glfw or sdl) 03:31:19 glfw? 03:31:19 <_3b> fusss: sometimes 03:32:05 <_3b> manic12: http://www.glfw.org/ 03:32:12 interesting 03:36:02 <_3b> fusss: messing with JS at the moment, but probably back to flash after that 03:36:24 _3b: aren't we all. JS is nothing like I thought I knew 03:36:58 i hacked js for 12 years, and didn't learn it until 2 weeks ago. 03:37:06 *_3b* at least almost has a nice environment for messing with parenscript 03:37:45 play with App Script, google's apps language; pretty thorough for a web-based thing 03:38:00 glfw says it only supports one window 03:38:24 http://www.google.com/google-d-s/scripts/class_docslist.html 03:38:42 <_3b> manic12: yeah, i mostly do more game-like stuff though, so not enough of a limitation yet to find something else 03:38:58 <_3b> manic12: future versions of both sdl and glfw should support multiple windows though i think 03:39:40 it appears to be saying the opposite in the faq :/ 03:41:20 <_3b> manic12: you mean the first bit under 'What is GLFW not?' ? 03:42:16 <_3b> fusss: i just want to be able to write silly web games :p 03:42:45 <_3b> (preferably without using any silly web languages) 03:43:17 last sentence of point 2.9 03:43:38 sounds good 03:43:39 maybe i'm reading into it 03:44:00 <_3b> manic12: right, i assume both of those refer to the current state of the lib, not to future plans 03:45:58 <_3b> fusss: early stages of what i'm working on now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111789 03:46:28 fuuuuuuuck 03:46:33 *_3b* may have to give up on autodoc though :( 03:46:34 that looks good 03:47:27 <_3b> (at least the fancy slime autodoc, the non-fancy one sort of works) 03:47:44 I'm not allowed to complain about context management if I decide not to use one of those libs i bet 03:47:57 speaking of bad doc generation; i had (defun bar "does bar") as a placeholder earlier and i couldn't find the bug that was introducing a string into my control flow. lesson learned; no more empty functions with docstrings. 03:48:03 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:03 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 03:48:51 anyone else see that reddit post on "C/C++ Compiler Macros"? 03:48:57 didn't mean what i thought it meant ;-) 03:49:16 *_3b* avoids reddit beyond once in a while cheking the lisp part 03:50:56 <_3b> hmm, now i seem to have broken all arglists... wonder when that happened 03:51:24 -!- DrForr_YAPC is now known as DrForr 03:53:04 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 03:55:37 _3b: you mean no arglist is displayed anymore? 03:56:16 I 03:56:32 I've seen that happen more recently than I used to. 03:56:33 <_3b> tcr: eldoc error: (wrong-type-argument ... 03:56:40 Oh that's worse :-) 03:56:59 <_3b> i'm hacking invasively though, so not completely unexpected for it to be broken :p 03:57:07 hacking slime? 03:57:29 <_3b> yeah 03:58:03 what exactly? 03:58:45 <_3b> the part that presumably broke things is trying to add hooks to slime-autodoc 03:59:05 Well what's the ultimate goal? 03:59:06 <_3b> so i can get arglists for things CL doesn't know are functions 03:59:26 That sounds like something entirely to be done on the swank part? 03:59:48 *_3b* is currently stuck on forward-sexp not working on @ foo :( 04:00:25 <_3b> i might be returning the wrong thing from swank side too, though most of my swank hacks shouldn't affect normal code 04:00:29 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 04:00:52 *fusss* wonders if anybody else discovered /= years into their lisping 04:01:04 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:25 (not (= ..)) comes naturally, and inequality is too primitive to lookup 04:01:44 fuss: me too 04:01:55 partly coming from scheme that, annoyingly, lacks it 04:02:12 *_3b* seems to use eql for numbers half the time anyway 04:02:22 i think haskell uses /= as well 04:02:41 <_3b> at least when comparing for not being a particular number 04:03:46 _3b: Sounds to me like you're down the wrong path :-) dealing with cl syntax consistently and properly is pretty impossible in emacs 04:03:59 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-43-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:04:20 <_3b> tcr: that's the path slime-autodoc took, i'd rather not rewrite it :p 04:04:39 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:04:39 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 04:04:39 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:04:47 <_3b> or slime-parse i guess 04:04:54 Yeah 04:05:30 Well partly, there was some other bit which was pretty accurate but it got deleted a year or two ago 04:05:55 So why do you need to change the slime side at all? 04:06:03 can you paste the diff to swank-arglists? 04:06:55 <_3b> possibly, just a sec 04:07:57 *_3b* has no idea how old this slime checkout is though 04:08:38 M-x slime-changelog-date 04:08:52 pnq [asdf@AC815482.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:07 <_3b> 2010-05-27 04:10:36 <_3b> http://paste.lisp.org/+2EBM is current state of swank-arglists, including debug junk 04:11:22 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:23 <_3b> aside from that most of my hack so far doesn't need direct modification of slime code 04:12:17 *_3b* hijacks slime-event-hook and redirects things to a separate channel 04:13:21 why not add a generic function and base valid-operator-symbol-p on it? 04:13:59 <_3b> don't think a GF is good enough there, unless it uses a different method combination 04:13:59 the generic function should probably be called with two parameter: keywordified name of the symbol's package, and the symbol itself 04:14:16 *toast`* finds it inconvenient, when writing lazy evaluation algorithms, that letrec isn't built-in rather must be manually provided 04:14:26 labels? 04:14:34 labels is for functions 04:15:09 <_3b> also i want to handle more than just symbols 04:15:31 <_3b> ((@ foo bar) ...) in PS for example 04:15:48 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@96-42-84-114.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 04:15:55 <_3b> (not that i'm sure how often that feature will actually be useful in real code) 04:17:06 <_3b> and assuming i could get the async lookups right in the first place 04:18:31 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 04:18:48 <_3b> and assuming i can work around forward-sexp getting confused by the @ 04:23:23 <_3b> hmm, guess i forgot to reevaluate a defun after i took debug stuff out, my arglists are back now 04:28:02 _3b: The arglist code is written with symbols in mind 04:28:28 Ah right that's why you want to surpass it I guess 04:32:39 *_3b* may just fall back to using whatever it is that calls slime-echo-arglist-function 04:34:42 <_3b> i suspect inverting swank-arglist stuff enough to do async lookups would be more effort than i want to spend at the moment 04:36:12 <_3b> (or adding some caching like the slime side does) 04:41:24 what's up with fare's numbering scheme, calling 2.105 2.003? 04:41:48 <_3b> 2.0xx = stable, 2.1xx = devel branch 04:42:33 it would seem to make more sense to do the git checkout -b devel and have the releases on master, but what do I know... 04:44:15 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-125-157.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:44:50 _3b: What do you mean with async lookups? 04:44:58 tcr: why is autocompletion so slow? do you know anything about the internal dictionary used? 04:45:14 <_3b> tcr: did you see the paste i linked earlier? 04:45:46 fuss: it's slow in some circumstances, mostly because the code could probably be involved (I assume you're talking of fuzzy completion) 04:45:56 _3b: swank-arglist.lisp? 04:46:13 oh, and evening everyone 04:46:15 alright 04:46:19 <_3b> tcr: one before that... http://paste.lisp.org/display/111789 04:46:20 hey slyrus 04:46:30 fuss: s/involved/improved/ 04:47:45 <_3b> tcr: i have slime talking to swank on sbcl, and for some buffers, it proxies through that connection to a browser (with compilation and such happening on the lisp using parenscript, passing JS to the browser) 04:47:46 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:30 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:33 <_3b> asking the browser if it knows about arglists would currently happen asynchronously 04:51:37 i wonder what would have happened in the computer graphics world if symbolics would have survived 04:52:03 *_3b* suspects it would have taken more tahn 'survived' to matter :p 04:52:04 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:27 manic12: afaik they didn't have that much pull in graphics area other than the fact that they had one of the first workstations that were usable for that 04:52:53 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:09 *_3b* would like to see more info on 'symbolics graphics'/'nichimen graphics' library though... never been able to find more than a brochure for it online 04:53:29 *manic12* has the source code 04:53:29 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:59 *_3b* probably doesn't want quite that much more info :p 04:54:26 <_3b> more just curious if there is anything interesting to learn from APIs and such 04:54:31 it's not relevant in an opengl world 04:54:52 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:24 manic12: by 1990, cheap, inexpensive workstations started appearing (with sw 3D) and small-size specialized 3D processors became available. They'd be rather hard to compete with, especially since to this day "production" uses of 3D software tend to use software rendering... 04:56:25 but it's funny that s-packages/nworld/mirai/ngeo never did matrix math on the card and now that opengl > 3.2 is out we have come full circle 04:57:00 p_l the api would have been different 04:58:01 well, yeah... 04:58:04 (transformation matrices) 04:58:20 OpenGL3 was supposed to make a *big* change in API but they chickened out 04:58:20 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:45 i think 3.2 deprecated everything 04:59:23 *_3b* thought most of the deprecation happened at 3.0 05:00:13 <_3b> with a bunch actually removed at 3.1 (but not actually removed, since nobody with the power to do so actually wants to get rid of it) 05:00:26 maybe it was 3.1 then 05:00:34 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:57 <_3b> even core profile isn't as big a change as was originally planned for 3 though 05:01:23 what's the news with 4.0 05:01:37 *manic12* doesn't know how to read 05:01:59 <_3b> 4.0 is mostly just support for dx11 level hardware as far as i know 05:02:13 what is that? 05:02:17 manic12: 3.x was supposed to be functional-style, threadsafe API 05:02:37 that would have been nice 05:02:41 <_3b> dx11 = directx 11 05:05:24 thunk [~thunk@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:39 so when does the functional-style threadsafe opengl come out? 05:05:44 <_3b> it doesn't 05:06:16 <_3b> too much old code would have needed rewritten 05:06:26 <_3b> so they decided to do it incrementally instead 05:06:37 gag 05:06:52 3.1 incremental? 05:07:08 <_3b> yeah, 3.x and 4.x are the incremental stuff 05:07:27 khronos, just do what you're going to do and tell me when your *done*. 05:07:33 -!- thunk [~thunk@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:58 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:07 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 05:09:14 if it's possible for a bubble to burst really slow, my opengl bubble did 05:09:25 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:10:06 *_3b* needs to find an excuse to do more GL stuff one of these days 05:11:18 gles and openvg seem actually ahead of opengl in good ideas 05:12:31 manic12: you should listen to one of intel engineers talking about possible approach to 3D API :D 05:12:41 but you still have to bind the api and change contexts to use openvg in an opengles environment 05:13:15 *p_l|backup* recalls *tar* being used in example to load textures to device 05:13:26 p_l: probably, because I don't want to invest years in something that will get flushed 05:14:30 manic12: it wasn't anything official, just a look on how modern hw might be better treated as separate system instead of direct APIs like DX or OpenGL 05:16:05 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@host-78-64-88-135.homerun.telia.com] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 05:16:23 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:16:30 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:16:57 dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has joined #lisp 05:17:01 I wonder if it's possible to access the framebuffer on nvidia with ptx 05:20:54 let people come up with their own protocols 05:25:40 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:26:52 manic12: well, his idea was to export a filesystem representing objects in GPUs memory 05:28:02 slyrus___ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:41 sounds like an interesting idea 05:32:50 abstract data transfers as streams 05:36:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.169.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:07 so are we going to reach a point when you only need the cpu to boot the device 05:37:29 vieq [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has joined #lisp 05:39:11 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:40:51 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.114.160] has joined #lisp 05:43:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:46:32 -!- vieq [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has quit [Quit: vieq] 05:54:41 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:56:21 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:27 g'day #lisp 05:58:39 good morning 05:58:50 What is the hot new thing in webdev + lisp? 05:59:03 web 3.0 05:59:07 shit. 05:59:38 I'm looking into doing the webapp thing. Doing it in lisp would feel quite good to me. Is weblocks the only alternative out there? 06:00:03 alternative to what? 06:00:11 to other lisp webframeworks. 06:00:22 i was using plain hunchentoot with cl-who 06:00:40 Right. That seems too much work to me. 06:00:44 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:01:21 perhaps, if you want web 2.0 06:01:33 heh 06:01:48 I want something that works for customers obviously. 06:06:32 eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 06:07:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.114.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:07:13 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:33 I was originally thinking seaside. But something lisp would be nice. 06:08:34 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:51 -!- pnq [asdf@AC815482.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:21 my brain can't comprehend any of these fancy frameworks 06:11:35 schmrkc: plain hunchentoot + html-template and cl-who works 06:11:52 fusss: and reinvent the wheel on top of that? 06:12:34 i put wheels underneath 06:12:38 hehehehe 06:14:54 It seems to me, that with the weblocks I already have basic db-integration and nice methods for rendering objects from the database onto webpages, + some session handling. 06:15:10 Would I not have to recreate all this if I went cl-who? 06:17:16 *schmrkc* shrugs. time for coffee. 06:17:29 as long as I get somewhat easy handling of users login in and out, all is well :) 06:17:59 you might wanna try uncommon-web as well 06:21:57 fusss: cools. I'll look into that. 06:22:03 whining about the opengl spec and context management is my way of not actually writing code 06:22:22 Phoodus [foo@174-17-116-185.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 manic12: write some code! 06:22:41 schmrkc: me personally i have stopped coding web apps in anything but javascript 06:22:56 fusss: I see. Doesn't that make life complicated? 06:22:57 the backend is strictly for authentication and handing out data in json 06:23:04 no, it simplifies it 06:23:09 Interesting. 06:23:23 doing gracefully degrading web apps was complicating life 06:23:53 I know about an hour of copying + pasting + modifying jQuery code of js. It seems.. an odd language. 06:24:03 quite a bit of { } and ;s 06:24:22 fusss: That does sound painful. I'm not planning on doing anything degrading at all :) 06:24:33 fusss: but js interfaces well with the sqls? 06:24:41 no 06:24:44 oh. 06:24:47 then I can't use that. 06:25:02 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:25:04 you need something in between, more specifically, you need a model layer 06:25:19 Yes? 06:25:21 don't be aware of SQL, it's not meant to be seen 06:25:38 That is what I was planning to use something for. 06:25:59 SQL stays down down down. you need something on top of it that consumers can interact with 06:26:09 Yes. 06:26:33 I was thinking weblocks or seaside would generate that for me. 06:26:55 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-93-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:27:23 or PHP ;) 06:32:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:32:38 no tool exists to generate that 06:33:54 really. weblocks and seaside both seem to have nice methods for generating content out of sql-data. 06:34:08 I just need to make it look pretty on top of that. 06:37:23 plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has joined #lisp 06:37:24 you literally write that in 5 lines 06:37:28 Good afternoon! 06:37:33 Excellent stuff then. 06:37:43 converting the result of "select * .." to html 06:38:07 So how easy is handling the login of users, and their profiles etc. in just js? 06:38:17 i wrote def-view macro which generated even an admin panel 06:38:23 cools. 06:38:26 G'day plage 06:39:13 schmrkc: signup/login/logout is done with session variables, some db calls and http redirect header 06:39:30 Hmmm. sounds good. 06:43:23 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:36 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:47 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:35 -!- plage [~user@118.68.249.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:29 Hun 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09:21:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.115] has joined #lisp 09:22:29 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:32 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:26:43 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:28:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 09:30:29 do you get used to prefix notation? writing the heaviside step function as ( / (+ (abs x) x) (* 2 x))) is a unreadable:/ 09:30:57 lewis1711: You use prefix notation for most stuff in C etc., too 09:31:19 yes, but not for arithmetic 09:31:38 I am not saying "this notation sucks", i am asking if it becomes readable in time 09:31:40 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:31:45 or clear 09:32:44 Luckily heavy arithmetics in programming is only necessary in very few places 09:33:29 Yes it becomes readable; I wouldn't say I'd prefer it to infix arithmetics because infix arithmetics is what we're all been entrenched for so long. 09:33:45 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:21 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:34:22 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:34:42 indeed. I can see the advantage in that it treats everything as a function with the same syntax 09:34:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-43-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:21 lewis1711: Yeah. (<= start foo end) for example 09:35:49 but heavy arithmetic in programming is one thing I like to do. <3 maths. eh, I'm sure I'll get used to it 09:35:56 or (and foo bar quux baz) 09:36:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:44 lewis1711: The parser of Common Lisp is customizable; there's a package which enables you to use infix notation. 09:37:53 is that so. prefix notation I will get used to because it makes everything look so uniform. 09:38:08 though I am curious, can you then customise cons, cdr, and car? 09:38:16 customise in what way? 09:38:25 different names 09:38:33 Just define new functions? 09:38:51 actually it's been done already; you usually use FIRST and REST on lists 09:39:12 oh. much nicer 09:44:30 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:54 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:10 first second ... are often better but I still like caar instead of (first (first l)) 10:05:04 kiuma: there's nth too 10:06:31 yes i use it after three, I mean if I need firts second third ..., I use nth for all to uniformity 10:07:44 imho ca..ar is nice, but c[a|d]r mixin are terrible 10:10:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.153.136] has joined #lisp 10:31:50 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-8-138.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:32:34 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:33:15 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:33:21 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:46 lispm [~lispm@g224127152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:03 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224127152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:25 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:39:15 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.115] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:41:07 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:46:52 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:47:02 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-116-185.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:11 longkid [~longkid@113.22.132.255] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 How can I take use lispbuilder-sdl to draw something in a window created by cl-gtk2? 11:00:25 HG` [~HG@85.8.71.96] has joined #lisp 11:00:51 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 11:01:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-2-164.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:06:54 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.71.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:08:28 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b10.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:13 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:08 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:11:08 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:11:08 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:12:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7565a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:01 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:14:45 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-35-82.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 11:16:50 When I try to start hunchentoot I get: "The function USOCKET::%SETUP-WAIT-LIST is undefined." ? 11:20:00 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:01 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:22:44 rmfasl 11:22:58 (whild guess, but looks like an expanded macro) 11:24:15 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:31 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 11:26:29 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:26:42 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:26:42 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:33:00 tcr1 [~tcr@124.13.126.56] has joined #lisp 11:33:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:45 Where is sbcl init file and how is it called on windows ? 11:36:03 hi 11:39:59 prljavi_hari: I think you can call it what you want and supply it to --sysinit 11:41:01 prljavi_hari: http://paste.lisp.org/display/89718 this might help, search for sbclrc 11:41:17 _3b`: you around? 11:41:24 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.132.255] has left #lisp 11:46:05 relcomp [~chatzilla@e180087255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:01 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:50:37 timor [~timor@port-92-195-31-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:52:26 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@e180087255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 11:58:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@pool-96-242-33-71.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:03 drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-137-137.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:07:33 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-170-209-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:46 mrSpec [~Spec@mar75-1-87-88-103-91.dsl.club-internet.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@mar75-1-87-88-103-91.dsl.club-internet.fr] has quit [Changing host] 12:13:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:14:08 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:14:08 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:17:22 Tanami_ [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 12:17:50 Kenjin: I did it with --sysinit, I put that after sbcl.exe in emacs init.el file. Thanks 12:18:10 prljavi_hari: sure 12:18:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-250-202.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:20:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-31-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- slyrus___ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- clop [~jared@64.132.38.198] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:04 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:36 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:21:08 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 12:21:40 -!- Tanami [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:24:59 egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 timor [~timor@port-92-195-31-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 slyrus___ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 clop [~jared@64.132.38.198] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 12:26:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:26:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:26:30 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:28:05 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:28:05 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:28:24 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:31:43 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:23 Im trying to create the list '((A B) (C D) (E F)) from '(A B C D E F) using a "cut" function, (defun cut (start stop l) [..], but im stuck :/ 12:33:40 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 12:33:55 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 12:34:25 What is this START and STOP in your CUT ? 12:34:40 positions, start the split from start to stop 12:34:55 Do you have an example invocation? 12:34:55 so the middle list will be stop-start 12:35:15 (cut 2 4 '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6)) 12:35:15 => '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5 6)) 12:35:22 *schmrkc* scratches head. 12:35:44 oh it always makes three lists? 12:35:53 yup 12:36:09 I thinking loop and collect. 12:36:15 heh :) 12:36:24 collect? i better consult my grimoire 12:36:30 it is part of LOOP 12:37:04 no way to solve it using recursion and somehow storing the result with let? 12:37:14 I'm sure there is. 12:38:45 loop and collect seems promising 12:38:54 thanks mr. wizard 12:39:28 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 12:39:28 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 12:40:27 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.115] has joined #lisp 12:43:37 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:44:53 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:44 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:47:44 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 12:47:44 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 12:47:58 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Client Quit] 12:48:15 tao| [tao@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:24 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 12:49:21 so, clhs is now "Common Lisp Grimoire"? ;) 12:49:53 Hello 12:50:04 why cdr is cdr and car is car? 12:50:06 I mean 12:50:15 why not head and tail? 12:50:19 or fst and snd 12:50:19 ? 12:50:21 tao|: instruction mnemonics from machine that was used for first implementation 12:50:29 they stuck 12:50:46 well 12:50:55 but why they made it that way? 12:51:02 on the first implementation? 12:51:19 tao|: t'was a time where assembler was the king 12:51:42 so it was reasonable that all involved knew necessary mnemonic 12:52:24 CAR accessed upper 18bits of a 36bit word, CDR accessed the lower 18bits, iirc 12:52:50 (Address and Data Registers, iirc) 12:53:41 Current Address register and Current Data register? 12:53:57 and what does addresses and data (?) has to do with lists? 12:55:34 -!- tao| is now known as tao 12:56:07 -!- tao is now known as tao- 12:57:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.80.135] has joined #lisp 13:03:13 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.182] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 Hello all. 13:03:32 Hi 13:03:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:42 hi nyef 13:04:41 I finally tried updating my environment to 1.0.39.21 yesterday. 13:05:05 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:14 So, of course, it didn't work, largely on the strength of some relative path where ASDF expected an absolute one. 13:05:58 use #p"" or just pull (i had the same with iolib and cxml but pulling solved it) 13:06:23 a few of our libs were also missing a few #p 13:06:45 Stuff like sb-bsd-sockets failing to load. 13:07:34 i didn't experience that, i'm on 39.21 also 13:08:06 a mistake i've made at some point is that a :tree scanner included many random sbcl versions in my asdf source registry 13:09:29 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.135.188] has joined #lisp 13:11:35 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:11:50 Hrm. A quick bit of further investigation suggests that the problem is -just- the use of run-sbcl.sh in my build script. 13:12:06 My actual startup script generates an absolute path for SBCL_HOME. 13:12:28 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.114.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:13:03 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.80.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:25 :D 13:15:24 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:44 ahh, right. now i remember, that's how it manifests... nyef: i've sent a run-sbcl.sh to sbcl-devel that takes care of that 13:17:57 Yeah, I saw. 13:18:09 Haven't tried it yet, though. 13:21:15 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:24 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:21:32 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:49 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:19 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 13:24:14 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-137-137.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:36:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 13:41:57 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 13:44:07 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.135.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:38 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.194.0] has joined #lisp 13:45:16 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.90.20] has joined #lisp 13:45:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:47:05 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:48:57 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:52 ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.182] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.194.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:02 fundamental [~fundament@cvar.townhouse.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 13:53:22 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.88.75] has joined #lisp 13:53:59 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.118.171] has joined #lisp 13:59:32 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 14:01:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:05:28 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:07:42 are there any lisp to perl converters ? 14:07:49 translators ? 14:09:52 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:12:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:57 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.88.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:18 -!- fundamental [~fundament@cvar.townhouse.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:52 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@222.65.71.52] has joined #lisp 14:16:43 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 14:17:20 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.73.140.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:18:27 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.118.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:19 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 zophy: umm 14:22:28 zophy: well 14:22:42 zophy: there is a lisp filter for perl 14:22:54 which turns (say 5) into say 5; 14:22:59 not sure what you want tho 14:23:30 *stassats`* can't imagine why would anyone want this 14:23:56 you can also take a look at http://github.com/ohwow/Acme-Lisp 14:24:00 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:24:11 which allows you to evaluate perl code on perl lists 14:24:17 stassats`: for fun? 14:24:53 that's some perverted concept of fun, but so is perl 14:25:54 stassats`: look through Acme:: modules on CPAN 14:25:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:05 a plenty of perverts ;) 14:26:51 my favourite is Lingua::Romana::Perligata 14:27:36 lol 14:35:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:37:18 -!- eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has left #lisp 14:38:43 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-35-82.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7565a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:32 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:49:23 yeah, Perligata is brilliant :D 14:56:18 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:38 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:07 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:11:22 rsynnott_ [~rsynnott@79.97.229.52] has joined #lisp 15:14:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:16:10 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:29 -!- rsynnott_ [~rsynnott@79.97.229.52] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:18:44 snyone here know how to make a hash/array to go to "strict" ascending order. Say, I have a hash (perl notation) {#\a => 1 #\b => 2 #\d => 3} . I want that to be {#\a => 1 #\b => 2 #\c =>}. Any hints? 15:20:27 rsynnott_ [~rsynnott@79.97.229.52] has joined #lisp 15:21:25 Under what circumstances do you want this order to apply? 15:21:55 Are you ordering keys or values? 15:22:05 keys 15:22:11 What order are you attempting to enforce? 15:22:39 strict ascending (ASCII) 15:22:49 hang on ... I'm working on it. 15:22:51 Something seems odd here... 15:22:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:09 morning 15:23:13 Hello slyrus. 15:23:39 -!- rsynnott_ [~rsynnott@79.97.229.52] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:51 krzysz00: you're not ordering keys, you're ordering values 15:24:06 It's an invenory for items in a game. I want the items to bubble up after you remove one, to avoid processing headaches where 1st item is missing, but there's 23 other ones WHAT NOW??? 15:24:22 well, not even ordering because you'd be modifying the hash table 15:24:46 trying to order the keys into place, and taking a stab at it right now 15:25:55 Amadiro [~whoppix@host-78-64-88-135.homerun.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:57 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 15:28:39 Perhaps you should just give up and use b-tree or something? 15:29:16 Or just use an array and take the cost of relocating the items on insert and remove. 15:29:27 forget it, I can probably just use the method of picking the first character that ha an entry, and come back to this later. 15:29:33 er has 15:29:40 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:30:02 I actually have a method for filling vacancies 15:31:05 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440867.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:31:15 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440638.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:31:15 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 15:32:05 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:32 I am thinking of trying ecl, should I use the stable version of the devel? 15:37:29 i would guess it would be the same as with any software - stable unless there are new features you have to have 15:44:10 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:44:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:01 all the lispers have moved to europe 15:48:24 what? 15:48:26 why? 15:48:28 -!- Guest68305 is now known as pkhuong 15:48:36 pjb: hello 15:48:45 it's so quiet 15:48:56 it's weekend 15:49:22 manic12: ? 15:49:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-2-164.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:28 (regarding lispers in europe) 15:50:32 hi guys .. just a quick note that the latest asdf2.x(?) in sbcl (from git) does not compile iolib correctly (also from git) 15:51:02 lnostdal: lack of #. in places that generate pathnames 15:51:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:23 p_l|backup, yup; i added a couple of #. here and there, but perhaps that's just a work-around? .. i don't know 15:52:47 lnostdal: it seems to be the correct method of dealing with any calls done in files loaded by ASDF2 15:55:35 is asdf2 backward compatible? 15:55:41 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:43 mostly 15:57:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:01 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Foo.] 15:59:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:29 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:31 benny` [~user@i577A20E3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:39 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:01:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:04:42 -!- benny [~user@i577A2E28.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:05:41 -!- rsynnott is now known as rsynnott2 16:08:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:20 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:07 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:03 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Foo!] 16:30:56 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:30:58 slash_ [~Unknown@2002:84c7:e670:8:2d0:59ff:fe34:ab5b] has joined #lisp 16:31:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-62-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:57 ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.139] has joined #lisp 16:39:46 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:23 bmac_ [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-253-195.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 -!- bmac [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:36 leo2007: Yes? 16:52:00 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.90.20] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:52:37 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 16:54:45 pjb: I was just thinking about trying out clisp. 16:56:09 http://clisp.cons.org/ 16:56:41 leo2007: that said, while I find it quite practical, it might still be more satisfying intellectually, to use a CL implementation written in CL. 16:56:54 leo2007: foremost if you want to be able to modify it easily. 16:57:33 leo2007: so I must confess sbcl implementer envy, and I could advise ccl or sbcl as well. 16:58:09 pjb: which common lisp is purely implemented in common lisp? 16:58:11 But for example, for scripting I decided on clisp. All my scripts are written in clisp often shamelessly clisp dependent. 16:58:22 leo2007: at least sbcl and ccl. 16:58:33 (ccl = openmcl) 16:58:59 There's some bootstrap C code, but it could be easily rewritten in a subset of CL. 16:59:16 There's also sacla, but it's uncompleted. 16:59:24 pjb: does clisp have extra things included? 16:59:39 Yes. Some modules and API. 17:00:03 For example, in scripts, I often use REGEXP which is an API on regex(3). 17:00:14 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:00:59 *krzysz00* wishes there was a lisp implementation with all the low-level bits in assembly (so you can create a lisp machine) 17:01:15 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:49 krzysz00: this is not the right approach. What you want is all the low level bits written in a subset of CL, so that you can easily write a translator in CL, of this subset of CL to any target machine, including raw hardware. 17:02:04 krzysz00: a canonical example, is Squeak. 17:02:12 krzysz00: with regards to ordering a hash table.. if you want order, you don't want a hash table! 17:02:29 minion: tell krzysz00 about movitz 17:02:29 krzysz00: please look at movitz: Movitz is a Common Lisp implementation that targets the x86 PC architecture "on-the-metal". http://www.cliki.net/movitz 17:02:39 krzysz00: if wishes were fishes 17:02:54 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:03:52 And if you're not a fan of movitz, there's sbcl-os. 17:04:19 slyrus__: got your email, haven't had time to take a look, but i've got lots of rucksacking on the horizone 17:04:23 But have you considered the amount of -work- involved in making such a bare-machine lisp environment truly useful? 17:04:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:17 nyef: and to what end... simply because one would like to re-write every driver ever in CL? :) 17:05:21 nyef: step 1: port ZETA-C (: 17:07:15 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:36 pnq [asdf@AC832A9C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:56 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:44 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:10:49 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@222.65.71.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:58 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:03 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:15:10 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:26 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-93-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:27:43 perhaps this is obvious, but is there a better way to append strings than (concatentate 'string "a" "b") 17:28:26 *_3b* usually uses (format nil "~a~a" "a" "b"), not sure it qualifies as 'better' though 17:29:03 crazy 17:29:41 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@2002:84c7:e670:8:2d0:59ff:fe34:ab5b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:55 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:07 davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has joined #lisp 17:30:29 <_3b> if it is something you need to do often enough that verbosity is a problem, you could always write a strcat or cat or whatever function 17:32:03 alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:32:36 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:39 -!- pnq [asdf@AC832A9C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:29 toast`: define "better". 17:35:39 toast`: often, better is to NOT concatenate them! 17:36:06 (with-output-to-string (s) (princ "a" s) (princ b s)) 17:36:07 toast`: (defstruct concatenate-strings strings) (make-concatenate-string :strings (list "a" "b")) 17:36:27 pjb: wasn't sure if string-append simply went under a different name 17:36:44 pjb: bah, ropes! 17:36:54 toast`: you mean scheme is less minimalist than CL? 17:37:17 pkhuong: yeah, i was trying to remember the name of that datastructure :) 17:37:32 pjb: scheme lacks concatenate 17:37:44 But it has string-append :-) 17:37:52 toast`: what's wrong with concatenate? 17:38:10 ('wrong' in the sense that you're looking for a 'better' alternative) 17:38:27 drewc: nothing. just was curious if there was a more appropriate function. like, i could call (concatenate 'list a b), but it's better to just say (append a b) 17:38:43 drewc: or one of the fancy finger tree derivatives 17:39:18 toast`: what does (append "foo" nil) vs (concatenate 'list "foo" nil) 17:39:19 toast`: notice that (concatenate 'list a b) and (append a b) have DIFFERENT semantics! 17:40:20 toast`: lists have a whole set of operators that are defined on them alone, simply because it's still LISP at heart. Sequences, otoh, have a generic set of functions, and strings are sequences. 17:41:05 drewc: and (append nil "foo") 17:42:33 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:09 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:46 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:03 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:53 -!- Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:56 i often think if CONCATENATE 'STRING was called CONCATENATE-TO-STRING, we'd never hear the 'is there a better way' question :) 17:47:58 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:01 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:13 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:50:52 Lisp Machine Lisp had STRING-APPEND, if I'm not mistaken. 17:52:48 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:54:43 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@host-78-64-88-135.homerun.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:30 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 17:58:56 is there a way to loop through a generic class's slots? I'm trying to make a function that will print the slots values. with-slots and with-accessors ask me the slot's name. 17:59:40 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:51 Kenjin: you can do that via MOP 18:01:02 -!- rsynnott2 is now known as rsynnott 18:06:17 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 Kenjin: what do you mean by a 'generic class'? See c2mop:class-slots for something that will work with STANDARD-CLASS, but it's not going to work for any given class 18:06:37 (because not all classes have slots) 18:07:05 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.115] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 18:08:00 I have two classes and I'm trying to make a function that would print me the values of their slots. The conditions are predetermined at this point - both classes have slots 18:08:18 I'll take a look 18:08:39 Kenjin: unless you are talking about :class allocated slots, than slots do not have values in classes, only in instances... and you need an instance to access the :class allocated slots as well 18:09:20 drewc: yes, I mean the values of the instances' slots 18:09:57 (mapcar (lambda (s) (slot-value-using-class (class-of instance) instance s)) (mop:class-slots (class-of instance))) 18:10:19 is there not something like with-slots that does not need me to supply the slots' name and would let me iterate over the available slots? 18:10:24 oh, maybe that 18:10:36 with-slots is a macro, so no, that would be impossible 18:10:48 macro's need to know the names of the slots at compile time 18:10:53 macros* 18:12:41 if you are trying to make a (with-all-slot-names (instance) ....) type macro, keep in mind that it's not really possible unless you use dynamic variables, which brings in a whole host of other issues (breaking closures for one) and wont work with SETF like with-slots does. 18:12:59 (or invoke the compiler at run time, but you don't want to do that easier) 18:13:25 in fact, you usually don't want to be thinking about slots and objects as well, but rather about protocols of functions... but i digress. 18:14:32 please do ;) 18:16:24 Kenjin: ok... if you're thinking about slots of objects you're working at the wrong level of abstraction... you should be thinking about accessors and protocols of generic functions 18:16:50 'how do i get the value of the foo slot of the bar object' <--- wrongheaded approach 18:17:10 'how do i get the foo of bar' <--- abstracted properly. 18:17:58 the answer to both is (BAR-FOO bar), but the latter has the right thought behind it... what if the FOO isn't stored in a slot, or BAR isn't actually an object with slots? 18:18:13 the latter thought process and the design that comes with at allows for that. 18:18:33 the former is too low a level to be spending your time in 18:18:36 level up! 18:18:56 :) yes sir! 18:19:59 I was trying like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/111894 18:20:04 s|:)|Sir,| ^_- 18:22:32 drewc: And I wondered if I could use this function to print the values of other instances, but since I need to specify the slot name I can't. So i thought, I might need another function just like this to print my other instance that has slot names, say x, y and z 18:23:53 Kenjin: what if a slot contains another STANDARD-OBJECT.. will you print that was well? 18:24:28 don't forget recursive objects! :) 18:24:38 that's where i was going :) 18:25:13 drewc: I am not thinking that far ahead. I have 2 instances with slost x, y, z and dx, dy, dz respectively. I was trying to have a single function print these values 18:25:48 or what about classes that implement rarely-written slots with an external weak hash table? 18:25:58 lispm [~lispm@g224127152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:00 (defun print-slots (object &rest slot-names) (mapc (lambda (n) (slot-value object n)) slot-names)) 18:26:13 Kenjin: explicit is almost always better then magic 18:26:24 ericklc [~ikki@189.139.181.97] has joined #lisp 18:26:35 drewc: :) 18:26:37 MOPerey give a good general approximation, but you'll probably still want to expose a generic function. 18:27:11 err... i forgot to actually PRINT the slot values :) 18:27:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.243.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:29 drewc: hehe np :) 18:28:09 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:40 Kenjin: ~& usually goes at the beginning rather the end.. in your snippet it's equivalent to ~% 18:29:18 adeht: thanks. Looks like I misread the documentation 18:29:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:18 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.146] has joined #lisp 18:30:31 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224127152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:43 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082C8C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B4E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:02 <_3b> Kenjin: were you looking for me earlier? 18:40:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:40:32 _3b: hi. Yes :) 18:40:39 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:41:42 _3b: when I ran some examples on cl-opengl I get a white frame instead of a window and nothing happens 18:42:17 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:42:28 <_3b> all examples, or just specific ones? 18:43:46 I managed to run gears but then I think teapot didn't run ok 18:43:51 let me check 18:44:58 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7565a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:17 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 18:46:22 <_3b> on the non-working one, does resizing the window make it draw? 18:46:28 jasonx_ [jasonx@78-1-175-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:47:25 _3b: gears works, but my window has no border 18:48:01 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:04 and when cl-glut is required a sbcl exec file shows up on my doc 18:48:24 I mean its the icon that represents an unix exec 18:49:13 I can only close the window by killing the sbcl process 18:50:20 you can't kill it from the associated repl? 18:50:47 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:51:11 Fade: I don't know how i'd try that 18:51:14 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:04 _3b, do you use glew? 18:54:41 <_3b> manic12: i think i did when i was using C, cl-opengl handles extension stuff for me now though 18:55:02 not wgl extensions tho 18:55:28 how can I try to close the example from the repl? 18:55:31 it was easy to write a cheap function to check extensions 18:55:40 for gl 18:55:41 *_3b* lets other libs deal with talking to wgl 18:56:44 i wish shared context support were standard 18:57:02 <_3b> Kenjin: esc key should close some of the cl-glut examples 18:57:56 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:58:51 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.11] has joined #lisp 18:59:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 _3b: it isn't closing gears for me. For the window not to have a top border the problem is maybe on wm? Should this be ran by X11? 18:59:34 <_3b> do the gears spin? 18:59:40 _3b: yes 19:00:00 <_3b> i think it should be using the native osx glut, so i wouldn't expect X11 to be needed 19:00:08 <_3b> (you are using osx, right?) 19:00:17 _3b: yes 19:00:33 <_3b> what version/ 19:00:35 <_3b> ? 19:00:38 10.5.8 19:00:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:10 <_3b> try running it without slime and see if it behaves differently 19:02:41 wow 19:02:49 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.184] has joined #lisp 19:03:15 _3b: without slime it runs fine, with window border and easy closing 19:03:25 *manic12* had half a breakfast burrito and brain has shutdown 19:03:42 <_3b> ok, probably the annoying osx threading stuff 19:03:58 <_3b> you probably need to use non-threaded slime to get it to work right 19:04:00 ah 19:04:04 thanks! 19:04:07 Kenjin: run evereything from the *inferior-lisp* buffer when in slime then :/ 19:04:37 bummer 19:04:45 <_3b> probably easier to just set swank:*communication-style* to something other than :spawn in .swank.lisp 19:05:00 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:05:02 but I'm glad I now know what's the problem 19:05:08 thanks 19:05:09 brb 19:05:46 *_3b* doesn't remember which of :sigio or :fd-handler to use though 19:06:01 <_3b> either that or get a real OS :p 19:06:43 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:01 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 thunk-afk [~thunk@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 19:08:49 -!- egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:35 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:16 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-205.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:21 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:14:08 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:14:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:29 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:18:18 -!- thunk-afk is now known as thunk 19:21:43 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:30:04 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:18 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:36:59 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:01 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-125-157.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:23 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-49.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:49:42 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:51:01 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:51:13 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:32 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:57:42 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.184] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 20:01:17 _3b, have you used lispbuilder-sdl? 20:01:25 <_3b> yes 20:01:34 thumbs up? 20:02:03 <_3b> if sdl 1.2.x does what you want, lispbuilder-sdl is a good way to use it 20:02:49 is there a better version of sdl? I want to attempt to create 3.x gl contexts on most platforms 20:02:59 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:18 <_3b> not sure if 1.2.x does that, or if you need 1.3 20:03:46 <_3b> 1.3 isn't (or wasn't last i looked) officially released, which is why lb-sdl hasn't updated bindings for it yet 20:04:49 segv [~mb@p54BE737B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:59 ah 20:05:23 -!- segv [~mb@p54BE737B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:36 has, per chance, the amount of death kitteh attacks in SBCL/win32 lowered lately? 20:06:10 <_3b> probably increased if anything, if you count the threads fork 20:06:21 <_3b> (or at least moved around a bit) 20:06:56 <_3b> don't think there has been any major work on it in the main tree recently though 20:08:01 Ah, I so they are multiplying, not migrating 20:08:11 knightblader [knightblad@devio.us] has joined #lisp 20:08:18 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:20 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:08:27 *p_l|backup* has weird mental association after seeing death kitty in TF2 20:09:30 *phadthai* reformats p_l mental disk with death by chocolate 20:09:37 oh, that one was only a backup... 20:11:54 phadthai: I was recently looking into pro-active, AI-driven IDS/IPS systems... unfortunately a friend of mine that once tried to make an eurisko-style AI for such a thing refuses to share source (something about being mad) 20:16:06 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:17:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:05 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:15 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:02 p_l|backup: this just made me read the history of discovery systems :) 20:29:14 Algid [~endgame@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:22 phadthai: there's at least one open-source IDS that uses pattern recognition in system usage to detect possible intrusion 20:36:02 it reminds me Gibson's Neuromancer in which cyberspace systems were protected by "AI" 20:37:06 'black ice' as I recall 20:37:08 :) 20:37:54 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:38:37 Fade: "ICE" was generic term for what we call now IPS 20:38:40 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:45 (which are of dubious legality) 20:39:31 as for Neuromancer... it was fun read, but it failed badly on technology (and I don't mean the "prediction" part) 20:39:42 "Snow Crash" was much better 20:41:27 (and I kinda prefer post-cyberpunk) 20:42:10 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:45:43 pnq [asdf@ACA379C3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:50:29 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.153.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:39 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:57 marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 20:51:58 hi 20:52:33 ¿are modules (in the require/provide sense) automaticaly created by ASDF or i have to create them manually? 20:53:27 <_3b> asdf doesn't call provide for you, but some implementions' REQUIRE will call asdf if it doesn't know about the module on its own 20:55:00 ok, thanks 20:55:15 so, in order to develop a portable and standard software 20:55:30 i must call provide after loading the asdf package 20:55:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:46 *_3b* would just ignore require/provide 20:55:56 ok 20:56:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:58 <_3b> if asdf has to be used to load the software, you might as well leave that as the 'official' way to load it, and people can use require as a shortcut on their own where it works 20:58:25 IMHO, build system should be optional 20:58:33 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:58:50 specially ASDF 1, ASDF 2 is comming 20:59:55 <_3b> well, if you want 'portable, standard' without using a separate build/load system, that pretty much leaves you with load.lisp or similar, and good luck scaling that to handle dependencies too :) 21:01:59 i mean when using the library, not when developing the library 21:02:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:06 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:04:52 *p_l|backup* was wondering if provide/require couldn't be reused into a different mechanism, which could be used to require stuff defined by CDR docs 21:05:44 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:18 -!- knightblader [knightblad@devio.us] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:39 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7565a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:37 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17:24 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:33 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-214.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:22:43 What Common Lisp implementation would you suggest I use for developing stuff on an ARM machine? 21:23:11 <_3b> clisp and ecl are the only 2 i know of for arm 21:23:27 Will this support running some ltk guis as well? 21:23:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-214.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:23:58 *_3b* assumes so, but hasn't actually bothered to get lisp running on my arm device 21:24:11 <_3b> (well, not directly, i guess i run my flash lisp on arm) 21:24:13 thx 21:25:07 GCL also works, but I'd avoid it. 21:25:51 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 21:27:29 antoszka: what platform exactly? 21:29:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:29 p_l|backup: OpenRD (Processor : Feroceon 88FR131 rev 1 (v5l)) 21:30:36 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 p_l|backup: A Marvell thing. 21:30:49 linux 2.6? 21:32:05 Yep. 21:32:46 some commercial project or just playing around? :) 21:32:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:19 p_l|backup: Nah, just playing around. Planning my fictional future GUI application. Just got the machine running again and I'm thinking what I can actually do with it. 21:35:06 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-205.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: later] 21:37:31 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-31-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:50 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:11 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Category:Common_Lisp seems to have fairly up-to-date information, any idea who is behind that? 21:46:27 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.139.181.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:12 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:56:04 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:57:07 leo2007: no idea if there's a particular group behind it, but the history of a few pages I checked shows various participants 21:59:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-83.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:31 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:06:42 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA379C3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:06 ericklc [~ikki@189.247.103.30] has joined #lisp 22:09:42 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:31 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:13:44 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:21 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:17:09 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:18:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:30 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:24:06 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-245-34.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:24:30 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:25:41 phadthai: thanks 22:26:26 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:21 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:30:22 _3b, the only x64 sdl is 1.3 (that I can find), so I'll be needing to work on the lispbuilder-sdl bindings if I'm going to use that 22:31:59 cross platform compatibility of opengl is a myth 22:33:30 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:34:21 <_3b> the opengl part is fine, it is the window/context creation stuff that is a problem :p 22:34:40 *you're awake?* 22:34:50 exactly 22:34:51 <_3b> (and no more of a problem than any other type of gfx) 22:36:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-244-249.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:23 i put a 1.3 binary where it was expecting a 1.2, it opened a window but also segfaulted 22:36:53 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 _3b: there? 22:40:05 *_3b* is not here, you are imagining things 22:40:54 _3b is probably imagining things by now 22:41:18 _3b: I've not played with lisp in a while. And i've recently been doing some opengl programming and I'd like to do some more with cl-opengl 22:41:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:54 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:43:07 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 22:43:42 _3b: any advice on how to get into it? I'd like to also contribute to cl-opengl. Don't think my current knowledge of lisp will allow for much but would like to explore this path 22:43:56 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:15 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:04 Kenjin: how to get into lisp opengl hacking? 22:45:12 download it first 22:45:18 manic12: hehe check 22:45:19 <_3b> http://nklein.com/2010/06/nehe-tutorials-for-cl-opengl/ might be helpful 22:46:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:46:11 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:22 _3b: already bookmarked :) 22:46:27 *manic12* needs to make a list of all the crap he needs to do 22:47:48 Kenjin, what platform? 22:47:49 -!- cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:02 _3b: what I'm asking also is if you feel cl-opengl is a good project for me to get back to lisp and start getting a deeper knowledge 22:48:09 manic12: OS X 22:48:41 if slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs is t, how to eval elisp in lisp? 22:49:27 *manic12* is stumped by the os x response 22:50:04 manic12: what did I do? 22:50:05 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:10 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:31 nothing, I just have never programmed mac 22:50:47 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:51:30 however, what specifically is the problem? 22:51:43 manic12: I thought you asked what was I running 22:51:43 *nyef* -still- says that the greatest Mac OS was System 6.0.7 with MultiFinder. 22:52:10 manic12: no problem, just asking advice ;) 22:52:11 marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 hi 22:52:26 it's one thing to just get opengl going with lisp it's another thing to have a really good cross platform infrastructure for it 22:52:30 <_3b> Kenjin: no idea... if it is interesting enough to motivate you to do something, then it is probably good :) 22:52:38 what is better for accessors? (class-slot instance) or (slot instance) 22:52:38 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:51 ie. (point-x my-point) vs (x my-point) 22:52:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:53:03 nvm 22:53:10 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 marioxcc: There's one more option, and that is (slot-of instance). 22:53:29 marioxcc that's a style opinion question 22:53:35 _3b: thanks. good answer ;) 22:53:59 marioxcc: I find that, internal to a package, I'm happy enough with slot-value, and externally is a matter of interface design. 22:54:04 which answer 22:54:14 manic12: I'm just looking to play with it a bit. :) 22:54:30 manic12: motivation to do something :P 22:54:31 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:59 (Thus, I'll tend to use whatever makes sense for the interface, not the class.) 22:55:12 Then again, I'm not a very big CLOS user in the first place. 22:57:17 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:40 I'm getting and error like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/230424 22:57:55 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:00 when eval (swank::eval-in-emacs '(current-buffer)) 22:58:23 nyef: ok, thanks 23:00:07 I will further admit that I usually use CLOS when implementing a specified interface, or when whatever interface I have is largely initargs and functions, not accessors. 23:02:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:02:51 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:22 <_3b> leo2007: what did you expect? 23:03:39 <_3b> that seems like a reasonable response to it working 23:03:56 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:05 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:04:15 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:05:10 _3b: I expect it to return the value of the form 23:05:55 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:18 <_3b> leo2007: how would it know how to turn an elisp struct into a CL struct? 23:06:20 Kenjin: what lisp do you use? 23:06:38 _3b: i've installed sbcl 23:06:40 ups sorry 23:07:07 ok, well the bad news is that cl-opengl and sbcl don't play nice together 23:07:17 but if you're looking for something to do, you could try to fix that :) 23:07:17 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:36 <_3b> slyrus: are you making sure to run in the main thread? 23:08:33 _3b: ah, that's a good question. I looked at that and I seem to recall that I did get farther that way, but that I still couldn't make everything work properly. 23:08:48 _3b: can it just print out the return value 23:08:59 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-116-121.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:08 <_3b> slyrus: also, i think Kenjin uses an older osx, which is less uncooperative 23:09:25 _3b: the first thing to do make all of this work was removing the dlshim so that loading shared libraries worked better. but, I don't remember exactly where I got stuck and gave up. 23:09:29 <_3b> leo2007: it tries to convert it to a lisp value, return it as a string and it should work 23:09:42 _3b: ok. 23:09:45 thanks 23:10:32 <_3b> or more generally, it tries to READ it, so return something READable 23:10:49 in elisp prin1 and then read back can produce errors. Is that the same in common lisp? 23:12:14 <_3b> leo2007: i would expect an error, if you print something that can't be printed READably, or if you have *print-readably* set to false 23:12:22 yeah I'm still with Leopard 23:12:39 _3b: thanks 23:13:31 <_3b> (which function errors depends on the setting of *print-readably*) 23:14:46 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:35 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:51 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:20:09 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:31 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 23:21:50 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:55 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:24:30 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:36 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 23:26:35 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:38 rread_ [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:11 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:31:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:04 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-vhlsrdpkvylutoqs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:32:04 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 23:32:56 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:34:32 _8david` [~user@pD9543374.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:35:10 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:35:11 Phoodus [foo@174-17-116-185.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@92-249-219-104.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:38:25 jmbr [~jmbr@193.1.100.8] has joined #lisp 23:38:25 -!- _8david [~user@pD9542647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:08 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.146] has joined #lisp 23:43:50 Xof: around? 23:44:48 i suppose it is rather late there... 23:47:03 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.73.140.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 23:47:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:23 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:39 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:56 1.0.39.22 still doesn't build my environment. 'Not an absolute pathname: #P"../sbcl/contrib/**/*.*"'. 23:55:46 ... You know what'd be nice, in a "quality of implementation" way? A USE-VALUE restart here. 23:58:39 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:42 nyef: the asdf changes I committed break things? 23:58:57 It's run-sbcl.sh still. 23:59:04 Relative pathname for SBCL_HOME.