00:01:22 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 00:03:21 redline6561 [~yaaic@m245e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:47 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: relocating] 00:05:21 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.24.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:01 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 00:08:32 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.7.98] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:10:38 -!- coyo|pingout is now known as coyo 00:11:37 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 00:12:31 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:02 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:52 typo in original announcement, was meant to be Menace http://motm.sourceforge.net/ 00:15:52 krzysz00: any chance you would consider renaming curses to motm-curses or similar? or do you intend for it to be a fully generic library? 00:16:07 *krzysz00* would appreceate portability improvments on his project 00:16:28 Xach: it's generic, rip off as you wish 00:17:20 Xach: gpl, though 00:17:24 krzysz00: did you try using cl-ncurses? 00:18:26 didn't cover everything (seemingly), so I just fooled with cffi and swig. 00:18:27 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:40 plus, clisp is great and uffi doesn't cover 00:18:55 oh, gotcha. 00:19:03 hmm 00:20:26 will be afk for an hour starting +5 min 00:20:34 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 00:21:38 Xach: I smell a skimmy code review (of sorts), could you consider posting to our development list 00:24:04 krzysz00: i'm concerned about name clashes 00:24:25 *Xach* has thought more and more about such things when collecting CL software 00:24:54 sorry, plus curses is internal (unless someone else eants it) 00:25:35 krzysz00: unfortunately, the namespace for systems is global. if anyone installs your game to try it out, the "curses" system can only refer to your curses. 00:25:42 krzysz00: that's why i asked about motm-curses. 00:25:45 also, curses is automagically pushed to asdf:*central-registry* during compilation 00:25:56 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:26:06 Xach: will do, clearly a bug (thanks) 00:26:30 krzysz00: would you like to try out my project, quicklisp? it takes only 23 seconds. 00:27:03 shortly, have to leave 00:28:10 sytse_ [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 00:28:47 stettber` [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 00:28:57 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:57 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:57 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:57 -!- stettberger 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[~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 01:46:45 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-208-213.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:26 I wonder if flexi-streams would work ok over iolib 01:50:48 there's only one way to find out! 01:50:56 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:33 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 01:52:45 Oh, I can think of several ways :p 01:57:53 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@ppp-71-139-27-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:58:34 -!- redline6561 [~yaaic@m245e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:59:33 ephcon [~ephcon@ppp-71-139-27-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:52 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:22 3b are you here? 02:05:14 is it 5:00am where 3b is? 02:05:38 manic12: No. 02:05:48 its 4:00am for me but its all about semantics.. 02:06:33 btw would anyone recommend a book about RDF ? i'm about to convert relational db to rdf 02:06:51 cool 02:07:00 *_3b* ignores local time 02:07:15 semantic web for the working ontologist (has owl stuff though) 02:07:53 3b are you the main maintainer of cl-opengl 02:07:58 <_3b> yes 02:08:33 I was using it today with allegro mlisp, it works 02:08:55 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:58 billitch: It's essentially the problem of trying to convert from tables to objects. 02:09:12 billitch: I don't have a book to recommend, but you're right to be somewhat daunted. 02:09:17 converting tables to statements 02:09:27 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-214-71.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:09:46 Not statements. Statements of the form (subject, predicate, object). 02:10:02 Subjects are essentially 'objects' in the usual mode of thought. 02:10:05 the subject is the record, the predicate is the column name and the object is the column data for the record 02:10:31 Zhivago: yes, objects with slots, but i'm looking to a practical way to achieve this in rdf, and then converting back to another relational db, but the second step looks much easier 02:10:38 maniac: That's one trivial mapping, but it isn't usually not a very useful one. 02:10:57 trivial yes and useful yes 02:11:10 semtech is going on here btw 02:11:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:50 With that trivial mapping you end up with all of the problems of tables with none of the power. :) 02:11:54 tons of rdf people in town 02:12:11 a table is a table 02:12:31 hm i guess the interesting point is when your ontology is realistic enough that you can convert back and forth to other representations 02:12:41 A more useful mapping is to try to map identifying keys to subjects, but that's more difficult. 02:12:47 why would we call it semantic otherwise ? 02:13:23 manic12: semtech ? 02:13:30 i saw a talk yesterday about how a guy was using cuda to prime triples for fast access in queries 02:13:41 e.g., you have employee_id, wage table, and an employee_id, height table, you'd really like that to map to emplyee_id has_wage xxx, employee_id has_height yyy 02:14:07 Zhivago: why is that more complicated ? 02:14:32 Because the knowledge that employee_id refers to an entity is implicit. 02:15:01 isn't employee a uri and employee hasId id and employee hasWage wage? 02:15:08 maniac's idea is essentially to use row121 has_employee_id xxx, row121 has_wage yyy, row232 has_employee_id xxx, row232 has_height yyy 02:15:42 yes 02:15:43 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:02 That's a much less useful model because you now need some indirect way to get from row121 to row232. 02:16:43 right, you want row121 and row232 to be the same uri 02:16:55 Which your scheme precludes. 02:17:05 sure the point is not to discard the "relational" informations 02:17:06 That's why I said it was trivial and not very useful. 02:17:27 The row should not be the subject. 02:17:28 but if you have good primary keys it still sounds trivial to me 02:17:28 it doesn't preclude, you just have to know the keys 02:17:40 It precludes the row being the subject, which is what you suggested. 02:17:43 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 02:17:54 i was trying to be simple 02:18:10 billitch: Yes, well, it still requires a full understanding of your relational data in order to do it well -- that's the difficulty. 02:18:15 maniac: You failed :) 02:18:22 ok 02:18:36 i was complex? is that possible for me? 02:18:40 i guess it helps too 02:18:43 Ontologies are really, really hard to build incrementally. 02:18:59 maniac: You were wrong, and the complexity is that you expected people to magically correct your suggestion. 02:19:28 i was simple, not wrong 02:19:31 Zhivago: yeah being wrong is pretty useful when teaching sometimes 02:19:58 or setting truth assertions aside rather 02:20:00 maniac: "rows as subjects" corrected to "not rows a subjects" :) 02:20:10 <_3b> manic12: working is good :) did you have some question about it? 02:20:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:20:52 yes, I would like to string-downcase some automatically generated symbols for simplicity 02:21:11 billitch: One suggestion that I'd make is to try prototyping your ontology in prolog first. 02:21:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:21:56 Zhivago: how would that help me spare time ? 02:22:12 (i'd love to learn some prolog though) 02:22:16 <_3b> manic12: which specifically? i thought they were already lowercase 02:22:58 no apparently not, i'm sure it's an easy fix which i can do for you 02:23:06 tommorrow 02:23:09 <_3b> ah, i guess glu stuff is mixed case, is that what you mean? 02:23:26 :color-buffer-bit 02:23:45 <_3b> ah, missed those 02:23:47 was upcased for use with clear 02:24:23 it still worked i just had to do :COLOR-BUFFER-BIT (sorry for shouting) 02:25:19 Well, prolog is a lot easier in my experience to work with than rdf tools, if you're a programmer. 02:25:40 are you going to try agraph? 02:25:52 With any ontology, in my opinion, the first question you need to ask is "what questions does this system need to be able to answer?" 02:26:14 Which is the other tricky thing that is implicit in the tables you currently have. 02:29:17 <_3b> manic12: ok, bitfield names fixed 02:29:34 thanks! 02:32:46 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:32:53 -!- bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 02:33:56 <_3b> manic12: as far as gl3 support, there should be low level bindings for everything up to the last time i updated them (mar 12th, gl 3.3/4.0) 02:34:24 do they need another layer on top of them? 02:34:44 <_3b> manic12: no support for getting rid of derprecated stuff though, i tried that and it was too ugly to try to maintain both versions 02:34:55 i hear ya 02:35:24 <_3b> the low level bindings are in %gl, and need knowledge of cffi, manual memory management, etc to use 02:35:25 you would basically have to have two packages 02:35:30 er modules 02:35:47 <_3b> the gl package is intended to be 'nicer' wrappers that hide that sort of thing 02:36:02 ok 02:36:02 <_3b> but since thta requires more work than just updating/running a script, it tends to lag behind 02:36:25 <_3b> (in particular it requires people to actually use those features, to figure out what would be a nice way to wrap them) 02:36:33 one thing i like to do is pass lisp arrays into gl calls 02:36:58 i'm not sure cffi will ever have that 02:37:09 <_3b> right, translating that sort of thing is what gl: is responsible for 02:37:36 <_3b> either grabbing a raw pointer and pinning the array if it can, or allocating memory and copying if needed 02:37:44 manic12: you like living dangerously :) 02:37:44 rme, memo from Fare: can you upgrade ccl's asdf to 2.003 one of these days? 02:38:17 i usually use :allocation :static or :allocation :lispstatic-reclaimable 02:40:33 were adding some kind of support for pinned objects for 9.0 02:40:51 <_3b> hmm, it might be always copying... i should probably do something about that at some point 02:41:10 <_3b> is it possible to tell if a given array was allocated with those flags? 02:41:22 but i'm fairly (fairly) certain that :lispstatic-reclaimable and :static arrays are essentially "pinned objects" 02:41:59 Azuvix [~user@174-19-226-105.bois.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:18 does cl-opengl instruct cffi to release the heap for foreign calls? 02:42:22 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-226-105.bois.qwest.net] has left #lisp 02:42:29 <_3b> don't know that i would call them the same thing, but should be useable in the same way in this case 02:42:38 <_3b> 'release the heap'? 02:42:57 <_3b> it frees any foreign memory it allocates if that is what you mean 02:42:57 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:43:04 yeah, are other threads free to access the foreign, or lisp heap during the ff call 02:43:48 <_3b> ah, is that something allegro specific? i don't think cl-opengl knows anything about that 02:44:20 there is a :release-heap keyword to def-foreign-call 02:44:56 are there any stack-based homoiconic languages? 02:45:05 if you say :release-heap t, then when that call is made other threads can run and access the heap you're using during that call 02:45:32 <_3b> i think cl-opengl uses cffi:foreign-funcall rather than defcfun (which i assume is what would use def-foreign-call) 02:45:49 probably 02:46:34 I wonder if cl-opengl could be easily made to use the native allegro ffi 02:46:57 (less dependencies the better) 02:47:42 then I can ditch the swig wrappers for your more elegant package 02:47:52 <_3b> %gl could probably be translated trivially, but the gl: layer would probably take more work, since it needs to know about the ffi 02:48:17 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-242-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:22 <_3b> not sure how well isolated the stuff that depends on ffi is 02:48:30 so for now I can leave cffi in place, not a big deal 02:49:12 i wrote a simple wgl/win32 replacement for glut 02:49:17 for the tutorials 02:50:05 <_3b> i guess the translation from keywords to enum/bitfield values might require reimplementing or copying some cffi code 02:50:20 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:05 how does that work? is for instance glClear a macro in cl-opengl? 02:51:29 *manic12* is looking 02:52:24 <_3b> compiler macros handle stuff known at compile time, otherwise it translates at runtime 02:52:24 that's a cffi feature is suppose, and not a macro? 02:52:44 <_3b> yeah, it uses cffi to do all the work 02:52:48 ok, compiler macros for gl:clear 02:53:15 toast-prime [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:20 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:20 -!- toast-prime is now known as toast` 02:53:44 it does lispify the code quite nicely 02:54:06 *_3b* might at some point add support for using numbers directly, for stuff that needs calculated at runtime and needs to be fast 02:54:33 can you do (logior :some-constant :some-other-constant) ? 02:54:45 <_3b> you don't need to 02:54:46 or equivalent 02:54:53 oh yeah 02:54:55 i see 02:55:08 <_3b> just pass multiple keywords or a list or something 02:55:10 it does that for you 02:55:21 *_3b* hasn't actually had time to do much gl stuff lately, so forgets details 02:57:03 the big (and silly) thing is creating the context 02:57:43 it would be a nice addition to cl-opengl to have support for wgl glx egl etc to replace glut 02:58:03 make the windowing system abstract 02:58:08 *_3b* doesn't really consider that something that should be in cl-opengl itself 02:58:15 right 02:58:20 <_3b> would be a nice separate library to have though :) 02:58:25 but something intended to go with it 02:58:33 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58:37 <_3b> and there is one in progress 02:58:42 oh? 02:58:51 <_3b> let me see if i can find it 02:59:06 <_3b> http://github.com/patzy/glop is it 02:59:49 <_3b> i haven't been folowing development very closely, so not sure how far it is 03:00:11 I do some disgusting stuff for shared context with wgl 03:00:27 i register a dummy window class 03:00:35 i open a zero-size window 03:00:44 get the device context 03:00:58 get a regular wgl rendering-context 03:01:09 manic12: still working on mirai stuff? 03:01:17 get the proc address of wglCreateContextAttribsARB 03:01:40 *_3b* tries to avoid working at the os API level for window/context creation stuff as much as possible :) 03:01:41 xristos: no, unfortunately 03:01:59 call wglCreateContextAttribsARB 03:02:16 save that context as the shared context, destroy the window 03:02:44 open a new window and call wglCreateContextAttribsARB with the shared context and go 03:02:56 gross, huh? 03:04:00 <_3b> yeah, wgl stuff can get ugly 03:04:26 <_3b> did you find the stuff in cl-opengl for setting up extension loading? 03:05:02 no, but I haven't needed it yet 03:05:30 <_3b> ok, if you do, look in gl/bindings.lisp 03:06:29 <_3b> basically just need to set %gl:*gl-get-proc-address* to an appropriate function, and optionally add a hook to be called before saving an image 03:06:46 nice 03:07:09 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:04 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 03:08:14 <_3b> actually, that last bit applies to the glut stuff too 03:08:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:08:37 hi, in SBCL how can I get a debugger prompt when a background thread crashes? 03:08:46 <_3b> hmm, i should figure out how that should work on ccl as well 03:08:50 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:58 evening 03:08:58 slyrus__, memo from Fare: can you upgrade sbcl's asdf to 2.003 ? 03:09:04 <_3b> ignotus: using slime is the easiest way 03:09:22 minion: memo fare: 2.003 or 2.103? 03:09:23 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 03:09:28 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:38 minion: memo to fare: 2.003 or 2.103? 03:09:38 Remembered. I'll tell fare when he/she/it next speaks. 03:09:50 <_3b> ignotus: i think it is (sb-thread:release-foreground) in bare repl though 03:10:08 _3b, thanks once again 03:10:52 <_3b> manic12: is there a hook in allegro that is run before saving an image? 03:11:04 probably 03:11:04 _3b: thanks! super 03:11:19 i saw that warning, I'll get it fixed 03:16:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:03 _3b, I'll look into integrating with glop, but context creation and window management is the big hindrance right now to getting cl-opengl used on windows 03:18:11 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18:44 <_3b> well, freeglut should work on windows, if glut does what you want :) 03:19:25 silly rabbit 03:19:51 <_3b> or glfw or sdl for that matter, if you don't mind more dependencies... might not have the features you want for non-game apps though 03:20:09 i technically should be getting cl-opengl working with common graphics windowing management 03:20:22 I don't think glop is game-specific 03:20:47 <_3b> yeah, glop does some things missing from the versions of glfw/sdl with lisp bindings 03:20:54 that would make the management happier than pure win32 or xlib 03:21:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:21:52 <_3b> yeah, that sounds like a nicer solution 03:21:56 sometimes when you're doing pure opengl, you simply don't need the whole of cg 03:22:12 cg is pretty big 03:22:36 so give glop a go. 03:22:43 will do 03:23:46 xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has joined #lisp 03:23:57 poor souls who want to do opengl shouldn't be troubled by glx, wgl, or even egl 03:24:11 egl is nice though 03:24:44 I don't know about any 64bit implementations on windows (there's egl mesa on linux) 03:25:32 anybody planning on going to ILC? 03:28:26 manic12: 64bit implementation of what? openGL or some utility API? 03:29:31 EGL 03:31:17 _3b, can I contact you by email as I work on this? 03:31:37 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:52 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:32:38 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 03:33:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:21 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-31-129.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:33:46 tcr [~tcr@118.101.116.115] has joined #lisp 03:33:47 <_3b> if you like 03:38:41 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.189] has joined #lisp 03:40:57 is it somewhere on github? 03:41:19 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:42:01 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 03:42:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.117.196] has joined #lisp 03:48:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.117.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cvnlwvrfqtwcmfan] has joined #lisp 03:55:06 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:58:03 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 03:58:20 -!- Samy [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:32 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 04:06:31 p_l, long time no see 04:07:50 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-221-198-35.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:08:28 yeah, i definitely had too much caffeine today 04:13:01 manic12: it's just that someone enabled v6 DNS responses in my backup link without ensuring v6 connectivity, and some mistyping caused disconnection that takk more time to reconnect than normal -_-; 04:13:42 i see 04:15:18 If I didn't have a bone to pick with admin, I might send a bugreport... :> 04:20:24 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@ppp-71-139-27-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:20:45 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:42 sykopomp here? 04:34:26 manic12: pong 04:35:12 so glop is your project 04:35:35 manic12: no 04:36:50 patzy? 04:36:52 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cvnlwvrfqtwcmfan] has left #lisp 04:37:06 yup 04:37:14 you are familiar with glop though 04:37:18 Patzy and Ralith worked on it a lot. I contributed a little bit to it, and mostly complained. 04:37:23 I'm using glop in my own project, yeah. 04:37:47 tomorrow i shall look at at 04:38:00 tonight i shall yack about it 04:38:25 (seems opposite chronologically, huh) 04:38:27 I like it. It's very easy to set up an app that uses multiple windows :D 04:38:45 and it only depends on CFFI. 04:39:06 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 04:39:11 i've got context/window support for xlib/win32 and egl 04:39:28 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:41 egl? 04:39:42 if glop is better than i think I would like to add my cruft to it 04:39:56 *then 04:40:12 i think egl stands for embedded gl 04:40:14 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA32449.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:35 it's a context provider for opengl es and openvg 04:41:00 you could take a look. glop is lacking a lot of things that would be quite nice to have. 04:41:20 i farted with egl on mesa and on windows with mali/arm emulator 04:41:29 ....such as being able to prevent window resizing, moving and resizing windows programmatically... 04:41:31 (gles2 emulator) 04:42:01 i'll get it working on acl first, preferably mlisp 04:42:06 but the bulk of the stuff I want is there, and I can bypass teh parts of the API I hate. 04:42:23 there are parts of the api you hate? 04:42:32 :\ 04:42:46 well, more like parts of the API that are too high-level for what I want to do, so I bypass them and get to the juicy core. 04:43:01 yeah 04:43:08 i know the feeling 04:44:43 how does it manage shared context on win32 with wgl? 04:45:01 not sure. I don't really even know what shared context means :( 04:45:06 and I haven't tried it at all on win32 04:45:11 although I'm told it may work if I try! 04:45:14 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:45:38 shared contexts are for sharing textures and vbos and such between contexts/threads 04:45:56 ah 04:45:59 don't know! 04:46:25 its a big win for multiple windows using texture fonts 04:46:40 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:52 it sounds like you could improve glop a lot ;) 04:47:08 (or, if glop is awful enough, improve your own thing and make it nice and usable) 04:47:37 I would like something that replaces glut for allegro cl users 04:48:10 I would like something that replaces glut for all CL users with a CFFI-compatible lisp :) 04:48:24 right now I just hack an improved version of whatever whenever i sit down to do a demo 04:49:18 <_3b> manic12: oh yeah, be careful using multiple contexts with cl-opengl, the automatic error checking can get confused by that 04:49:26 i dunno if i can convince the management that I should spend time mucking with cffi unless something like glop already is started 04:49:47 manic12: well, my impression is that the bulk of the work is already done, but I may be wrong. 04:49:50 _3b, can i disable that 04:50:49 ? 04:50:50 <_3b> yeah, i think it should say how at the top of gl/bindings.lisp 04:51:00 ok 04:51:46 <_3b> if you aren't actually using more than 1 context at a time it should be OK though 04:51:54 _3b, though the way i was using cl-opengl, it didn't even realize i was managing the contexts for it 04:51:55 <_3b> (or if you aren't using immediate mode) 04:52:22 <_3b> the problem is that it needs to know not to check for errors between glBegin and glEnd 04:52:42 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:59 i'm a little lost 04:53:41 the error checking for cl-opengl assumes a constant context? 04:54:19 glgeterror or somethign? 04:54:37 <_3b> yeah, glGetError isn't allowed between glBegin and glEnd 04:54:49 antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 -!- df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:55:22 <_3b> and cl-opengl uses a global flag to keep track of whether it has seen a Begin without and End 04:55:30 so glGetError can be called between glBegin and glEnd if i disable something? 04:55:38 oo 04:55:47 <_3b> no, that is a GL rule... calling it will generate an error 04:55:47 have to make that thread specific 04:55:48 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:09 <_3b> the problem is cl-opengl by default calls it after every (well, most) GL call 04:56:20 wow 04:56:23 <_3b> no, needs to be context specific, not thread specific 04:56:29 right 04:57:09 xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has joined #lisp 04:57:14 maybe need a struct for a "context" and hold lisp state 04:57:43 <_3b> probably what I will do is just not check errors after functions that are allowed between Begin and End 04:57:52 but you can turn it off entirely I assume if you want high speed low drag 04:58:01 <_3b> right, just needs a recompile 04:58:31 <_3b> but very nice to have during development 04:58:32 i did notice that it makes development *a lot* esaier 04:58:34 easir 04:58:38 easier 04:58:40 whew 04:58:45 <_3b> (found a bunch of minor bugs in the demo apps when i first added it) 04:59:42 our users are going to appreciate full support of cl-opengl vs. our swig bindings I think 05:00:19 its like a lexus vs a saturn 05:02:28 manic12: the simile escapes me 05:02:42 cars 05:02:55 right 05:03:06 I gather that much, but I know nothing of cars. 05:03:43 cl-opengl checks for errors during development, uses keyword symbols instead of constants and swig doesn't do any of that unless you tell it to 05:03:59 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:04:13 manic12: ah, okay 05:04:39 nothing wrong with swig, you just have to spend quality time with it 05:05:15 I suppose there exists a cl-freetype too 05:05:26 *manic12* googles 05:06:12 manic12: there are a few native CL font renderers which are allegedly better, actually. 05:06:22 though I couldn't name them, let alone compare them, off the top of my head. 05:06:48 xristos tells me he has a pretty fancy one. 05:07:03 not sure if there's any actually released font renderers that are decent. 05:07:15 years ago xristos used freetype 05:07:23 the one I'm using with UID takes a pretty slow approach. 05:07:30 he did say freetype would be a pretty good idea, too. 05:07:42 beach made a font render with vecto, iirc 05:07:48 having external C dependencies is annoying, but sometimes it's hard to avoid. 05:07:57 I'd rather have a full-native solution, myself. 05:08:02 ^ 05:08:04 me too 05:08:16 so where's xristos's? 05:08:17 it may be something worth putting resources into 05:08:27 Ralith: ask him. I think he has it in a secret server somewhere. 05:08:40 or an old version might be hidden away in my hard drive, waiting to be rediscovered. 05:08:41 the fully-native solution has one possible plus over deps - it could be engineered into something that actually supports the whole thing in one library, instead of crazy dependency hell of font rendering on *nix 05:08:49 i've got swig freetype bindings and a forward compatible (i.e. gl3) font rendering system 05:09:13 I'll be putting it out soon 05:09:37 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 05:10:12 that's part of what prompted all of my sudden interest in cl-opengl and glop and such 05:10:24 I want to be PC 05:11:16 There's a couple of us developing portable game engines (mine being just a toy, but whatever). This kind of stuff would benefit us immensely :) 05:11:36 (and being portable frameworks, would also probably benefit ACL/LW users) 05:11:39 GTK has freetype for x64 windows available on their website 05:12:09 somebody from LW will have to do the LW support 05:12:21 I'll hack the ACL end 05:12:42 well, I mean, it's much easier for that to happen if it's just CFFI + native portable lisp libs. 05:13:10 CFFI... 05:13:23 yup, cffi. :\ 05:13:49 some of our users use it, but seems like the prevailing trend at franz is to worry only about native ff bindings 05:14:19 our ffi has some nice features not supported yet by cffi 05:14:56 we recently introduced call/pass by value for certain platforms 05:15:03 manic12: I do remember SWIG being much more mature on ACL, but could you elaborate on features missing from cffi? 05:15:07 I just installed asdf 2. All my source files are in sub-directories under /home/lat/lisp/ , so I created a directory named /home/lat/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d, and placed a in it a file named lat.conf containing the line (:tree "/home/lat/lisp/"). However, when I (require :lat-unique.asd) from the slime repl the file is not found. What is wrong? 05:15:08 (x86-64 linux i think) 05:15:12 CFFI is what everyone else uses. 05:15:27 saves a ton of time to not have to reinvent the wheel. 05:15:31 some of us retro-troglodytes still use sb-alien 05:15:46 can one pass native lisp arrays into ff calls? 05:15:49 under cffi? 05:15:51 *p_l|backup* had done theoretical work into native C++ calls with CFFI 05:16:12 manic12: I'd say that is way too implementation specific 05:16:17 we've got :method-index, but it only works for single inheritance i think 05:16:27 manic12: with-pointer-to-vector-data 05:16:28 <_3b> lat: (require :lat-unique) without the .asd maybe? 05:16:58 manic12: I have nearly everything figured out except exceptions 05:17:20 i use swig for SMLib bindings, and i use lisp double-float arrays for all the low level stuff 05:17:46 p_l wow 05:18:03 for any c++ compiler? 05:18:26 can't be 05:18:27 manic12: GCC for now, I didn't have enough data about vtables in MSVC 05:18:29 they differ 05:18:34 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 05:18:49 well, everything that follows IA-64 ABI (which means most C++ compilers used now) 05:19:04 _3b, that solved the problem. Thanks! 05:19:17 though some stuff was dependant on GCC (for vtable layout generation) 05:19:20 p_l are you looking just to propogate the exception, or to actually examine the exception object? 05:21:24 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-138.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:21:40 not all methods on c++ objects are virtual though, obviously 05:22:03 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 05:22:18 so you still have to wrap those with C, unless you have mangling figured out 05:22:21 Verrazano afaik supports some of the stuff I was investigating, but right now the project is stalled by lack of time/funding (i.e. other things that might get paid are more important) 05:22:23 fitzgen [~fitzgen@c-67-201-205-34.reshall.wwu.edu] has joined #lisp 05:22:29 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:38 hey guys, relative CL noob here 05:22:49 Is there a way to "undefine" a variable as a constant? 05:22:52 manic12: mangling was the easiest thing 05:23:21 manic12: actually, I completely ignore mangling except for generating symbols on CL side 05:23:30 we all need to clone ourselves and somehow get double funding 05:23:59 the goal is native C++ call, down to exception handling (with exceptions being translated into conditions) 05:24:05 fitzgen: yeah. Don't use defconstant. 05:24:10 how do you get the function address of a non-virtual member function? 05:24:28 p_l - cool, and you're running into trouble with msvc? 05:24:28 manic12: non-virtual member functions can be found by their symbol name 05:24:35 sykopomp: yeah, too late now.. :) I'd just rather not restart my lisp... 05:24:35 toast`: lack of docs, more like it 05:24:54 fitzgen: that's what you'll have to do. 05:25:06 gcc documents that? 05:25:10 fitzgen: make sure you s/defconstant/defparameter/ before you do :) 05:25:13 p_l: yeah, it can be a pain to find. MSVC's exception ABI is not documented *but* it is a thin layer over Win32 SEH 05:25:18 the call sequence is documented, but I don't have docs (nor time to disassemble) how its vtable is structured or exceptions 05:25:23 sykopomp: thanks for helping me, I couldn't find any answers via google 05:25:27 and the latter is documented, deep down on msdn somewhere 05:25:27 sykopomp: of course ) 05:25:29 fitzgen: you can try uninterning the symbol, but the constant might have been incorporated into code. 05:25:30 :) 05:25:41 rme: how do I do that? 05:26:02 Its all my code and I s/defconstant/defparameter/ alreasy 05:26:06 already* 05:26:09 GrayGnome` [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:10 defconstant is telling the compiler that you don't plan to change it 05:26:13 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-153-207.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:26:32 so undefining it may be dependent on the implementation 05:26:37 manic12: and I wasn't, I wanted it to be the same hash table, but I wanted to be able to mutate that same hash table 05:27:03 if that makes sense... 05:27:08 mutating a hash table is easy 05:27:19 toast`: one possible implementation path I considered was to directly use assembly in generated bindings 05:27:25 clrhash, setf gethash remhash 05:27:41 manic12: my code wouldn't compile anymore though... 05:27:50 because of mutating a constant 05:27:51 fitzgen: SBCL? 05:27:54 yeah 05:28:02 yeah, you have to conditionalize defconstant on SBCL 05:28:08 ? 05:28:16 defparameter? 05:28:22 if you try to re-evaluate defconstant, SBCL likes exploding. 05:28:28 and defparameter is good enough :) 05:28:37 (and actually lets you _develop_) 05:28:39 yeah I definitely switched it 05:28:52 I guess rebooting the lisp is the easiest thing to do now 05:29:16 thanks for all the help everyone :) 05:29:18 -!- Sukoshi`` [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:29:21 fitzgen: expect the same sort of thing if you try to work a lot with structs, by the way. 05:29:24 word of warning ;D 05:29:49 sykopomp: structs + defconstant? 05:29:56 or just strcts in general? 05:30:00 defstruct in general. 05:30:34 because of how they are implemented by sbcl? is like the erlang and records hell?/ 05:30:48 dunno, but it can certainly be hell :) 05:31:05 stick to defclass unless you're freshly confident about your struct-decision. 05:31:06 *sykopomp* -> bed 05:31:13 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:21 where some struct having foo and bar slots is actually a list like (foo bar) and if you change it dynamically you get screwy results? 05:31:55 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:27 -!- fitzgen is now known as fitzgen|away 05:34:43 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:43 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:35:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:35:33 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37:13 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 05:39:48 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:41:20 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:42:38 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43:02 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:21 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:46:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:10 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:48:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:52:47 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:49 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 06:02:37 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Quit: off] 06:07:21 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:09:01 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:15 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:32 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:22 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:21:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:21:34 hello lispers 06:22:07 hello 06:22:31 which is the equivalent in sbcl for lw:function-lambda-list in LispWorks ? 06:23:21 sb-introspect:function-lambda-list 06:23:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:23:56 thanks 06:27:22 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:27:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:27:44 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:37:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:39:52 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40:53 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.117.196] has joined #lisp 06:45:01 (defpackage :laturk-unique (:use :cl :collate) (:shadowing-import-from #:collate . #. (collate::external-symbols))) This fails on shadowing-import-from. What could be the cause? 06:45:51 and where is the error message? 06:46:07 _8david`: herep 06:47:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.117.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:09 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:48:14 stassats, erred while invoking # on 06:48:14 # 06:48:16 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dyxnzxosfsboevjl] has joined #lisp 06:48:19 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:45 that's not the right error message 06:49:14 good morning 06:49:21 hi mvilleneuve 06:51:01 fe[nl]ix: or maybe you know something about hemlock internals? 06:51:49 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:51:55 stassats, this one maybe: ("erred while invoking # on\n#" " [Condition of type ASDF:COMPILE-FAILED]" nil) 06:52:29 lat_: no, look further 06:52:49 stassats: regarding what problem ? 06:53:09 fe[nl]ix: displaying multibyte characters 06:53:36 and it's pain to debug, it tries to redisplay and invokes debugger endlessly 06:54:25 ASau [~user@77.246.230.77] has joined #lisp 06:56:40 stassats, (:write-string "\n;\n; compilation aborted because of fatal error:\n; SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 147 (line 4, column 67) on #:\n; package \"COLLATE\" not found\n; ") 06:57:24 well, here's your problem, you don't have COLLATE package 06:58:26 and you can read error message in the repl, you know 06:58:37 not in the transcript of internal communications 06:59:58 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-131.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:00:42 stassats, I have it, but its not being found by asdf 2. I just installed asdf 2. All my source files are in sub-directories under /home/lat/lisp/ , so I created a directory named /home/lat/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d, and placed a in it a file named lat.conf containing the line (:tree "/home/lat/lisp/"). This was not the case before. Could this be the problem? 07:01:04 i don't know 07:01:40 -!- rme [rme@clozure-963FD910.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:01:40 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-125-157.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:01:59 hmm, looks like hemlock wasn't designed with multibyte characters in mind, though it has some "funny" and "losing" characters 07:02:06 and i'm lost in its code 07:02:32 stassats, ok, thanks. I have to go now. I'll be back later. 07:04:47 i wish my native language would fit in ASCII, it's always a problem with software, even in 2010 07:05:03 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:05:10 morning 07:06:12 howdy 07:06:41 I'm patching lisp doc, should I send the patch to the author ? 07:06:46 *lispdoc 07:06:56 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:10:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:10:43 manic12: there's no context sharing in glop for the moment, but improvements are welcome :) 07:19:42 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 07:21:29 patzy: ok 07:24:10 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:25:00 fiveop [~fiveop@e179161054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:14 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:28:26 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:29:39 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-potxpcdktsykaiba] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 hankhero1 [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:04 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-15-213.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:46 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-87-27.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:42:59 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-15-213.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:46:34 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:48:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:35 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:53:37 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:48 How not to give a specific name for binding I don't need, for example, in (destructuring-bind (dummy . a) (cons 1 2) a), how to avoid DUMMY? 07:54:13 (declare (ignore dummy)) 07:55:13 is there in format control string a way to downcase an argument ? 07:55:29 I remembered. In loop (nil . x) can be used to ignore a binding. 07:55:31 kiuma: ~( 07:56:42 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:32 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 07:57:34 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-237-76.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:36 bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:57:53 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:57:58 thank you 07:58:09 -!- bozhidar` is now known as bozhidar 08:01:18 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179161054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:05:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-96-214.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:07:10 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:04 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.249] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:13:33 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:18 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.142] has joined #lisp 08:20:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dyxnzxosfsboevjl] has left #lisp 08:24:20 -!- _8david` [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:40:00 -!- sytse_ is now known as sytse 08:44:07 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 08:49:07 leo2007: metabang-bind supports NIL as dummy. (it's a different story that it breaks when &key (foo nil) is used and it really should be _ not NIL) 08:49:53 why not -? 08:50:02 it's a variable 08:50:27 ye, right 08:50:51 but it does not matter too much, because it is used just for the symbol name and is ignored, anyway 08:53:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:59 jdz: using - means you're establishing a new special binding 09:02:13 which is comparatively expensive 09:03:04 attila_lendvai: thanks for that. 09:03:38 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:04:33 tcr: but _ would be as expensive as -, no? 09:06:06 tcr: i'm not talking about destructuring-bind, but metabang-bind 09:06:16 _ should be turned into ignored gensyms by a macro 09:06:36 yes, and in this sense it makes no difference to use - or _ 09:06:57 just that dash is more lispy than undersore 09:06:58 _ is used as placeholder in other languages 09:07:10 also more readable imho 09:07:20 i know, and making lisp look like other languages makes no sens imo 09:09:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@178-164-166-161.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:01 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.138.167] has joined #lisp 09:12:07 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:14:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:15:50 xan_ [~xan@178-164-166-161.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 09:19:32 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 09:19:37 Good afternoon! 09:20:57 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:21:09 hi plage 09:21:17 plage, trevlig midsommar! 09:25:42 relcomp [~chatzilla@195.37.186.62] has joined #lisp 09:25:49 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:22 lichtblau [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:58 tic: Thanks! Totally forgot about it. 09:27:12 plage, how could you forget! 09:30:47 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:50 tic: Easy in a tropical country. 09:32:00 plage, I suppose. 09:34:30 plage: are you Luke by any chance? 09:37:02 attila_lendvai: Not at all. I am beach (of course). 09:37:24 ahh! one more entry in my hashtable then... :) 09:37:30 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:38:08 tic: go midsommar! 09:38:29 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:36 attila_lendvai: If you had known a bit of French, that would not have been a problem. Perhaps you need to refresh your Italian as well, because I am sometimes spiaggia. 09:39:21 plage: i'm sorry, but i'm much less sophisticated... i had a hash entry for spiaggia, though... :) 09:41:03 schmrkc, yeah! 09:41:22 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:45:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:48:17 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:48:37 schmrkc, was that "go" as in "god", by the way? in which case, "detsamma!" 09:50:57 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:55:15 plage` [~user@58.186.13.98] has joined #lisp 09:56:42 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:41 consolers [clamp@59.96.13.57] has joined #lisp 10:01:44 -!- consolers [clamp@59.96.13.57] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 10:07:46 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:46 *lichtblau* has lost the repo url of the existing cffi/allegro long long patch... again 10:09:02 Can someone please remind me where that patch is? 10:16:34 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@195.37.186.62] has left #lisp 10:16:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-180-131.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:41 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:45 sysop_fb [~bleh@213.185.111.60] has joined #lisp 10:21:21 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-62.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:30:11 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:30:31 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:31:48 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:53 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:39:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:44:07 -!- abqar_ [~abqar_@122x220x64x254.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:44:08 -!- hankhero1 [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:52:55 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.138.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:35 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.140.42] has joined #lisp 11:09:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:14:01 asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.59] has joined #lisp 11:14:02 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:16:45 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:20:02 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:44 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23:30 asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.59] has joined #lisp 11:24:56 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-62.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:43 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202780.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:10 *Xach* feels a recurring thrill 11:31:16 Joreji [~thomas@67-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:33:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.140.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:13 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 11:39:41 zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:39:55 tic: yes :) 11:43:29 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:29 fiveop [~fiveop@e179161054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:16 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:56:18 *p_l|backup* ponders if code from 1991 that mentions PCL as separate package will compile on SBCL... 11:57:21 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 12:02:29 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:03:33 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:06:54 Hi, I've patched lispdoc to work with sbcl and produce better documents (see http://www.wingstech.it/kiuma/clonsigna/CLONSIGNA.html) is Sven Van Caekenberghe. here ? 12:07:13 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 12:07:41 -!- plage` [~user@58.186.13.98] has left #lisp 12:08:13 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:49 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:13:25 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 12:13:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.8] 12:16:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.116.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:05 -!- sysop_fb [~bleh@213.185.111.60] has quit [] 12:22:11 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.82] has joined #lisp 12:28:15 -!- hohum_ [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:28 hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:05 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 12:38:29 laynor [~user@dhcp-892b3c6f.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 12:38:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:45 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:52:31 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:53:38 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:59:02 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 12:59:03 HET2 [~diman@217.75.64.166] has joined #lisp 12:59:04 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-33-246.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-33-246.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 12:59:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:00:56 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:02:34 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:41 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:08:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-029.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:10:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@217.75.64.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:38 HET2 [~diman@217.75.64.166] has joined #lisp 13:13:02 maden [~maden@dsl-153-108.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 13:13:07 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 13:15:09 -!- codemonsta [~codemonst@99-4-177-176.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:08 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:18:47 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:19:00 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:19:23 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 13:20:24 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:20:32 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:06 When trying to load asdf.lisp I get: "package POSIX has no external symbol". What does that mean ? I use emacs/slime/clisp on windows. 13:21:39 what implementation and what version? 13:21:44 what version of asdf.lisp? 13:21:59 the newest 13:22:11 prljavi_hari: Basically, asdf.lisp contains posix:foo somewhere, and the version of your implementation does not include that function in its POSIX package 13:22:27 I guess an upgrade of your implementation might solve it 13:22:41 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:52 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:55 ok 13:22:59 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:36 *attila_lendvai* moved over the dwim.hu stuff to asdf2 in a mere 4 hours of struggling 13:27:17 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:27:23 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:27:28 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:27:40 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:52 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:31:11 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:32:46 -!- nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:32:47 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:33:12 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:33:32 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: okei; teste da .. brb.] 13:35:20 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:33 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:25 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:36:43 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:44 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:43:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:45:31 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:45:32 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:01 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:35 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:12 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:57 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:33 after trying (push #P"c:/lisp/asdf-packs/hunchentoot/" 'asdf:*central-registry*) I get: "FUNCTION: undefined function #1=(SETF QUOTE)". Why ? I'm in common-lisp-user packege and "push" works normally 13:51:50 prljavi_hari: because you have a ' where no ' is needed. take it out. 13:51:53 is sb-mop:class-default-initargs the equivalent to OPENMCL ccl::class-slot-initargs? 13:53:01 kiuma: If you're playing with the MOP, then I recommend using Closer-MOP. 13:53:30 sellout, just putting hands on lispdoc 13:53:35 prljavi_hari: you can see push as trying to setf 'asdf:*central-registry, which makes no sense (you can't setf a quoted symbol) 13:53:47 *p_l|backup* considers replacing (:use :cl) with (:use :c2cl) for all his new projects 13:54:05 kiuma: rather equivalent to ccl:class-default-initargs 13:55:01 sellout, maybe I should add a dependency to closermop (maybe a biginning for fork? I hate the idea) 13:55:45 stassats, what is in sbcl the equivalent for ccl::class-slot-initargs ? 13:56:29 kiuma: why fork? 13:56:58 Thanks. I removed the quote and now it works. 13:57:02 i don't think ccl::class-slot-initargs is the right thing to use, it's not exported 13:57:17 ccl doesn't believe in exporting! 13:57:24 packages will probably never catch on. 13:58:44 at least it has all other MOP symbols exported 13:58:54 p_l|backup, only if I'll add closer-mop and author doesn't want 13:59:16 kiuma: you'd better tell what do you need from that function 14:00:03 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 14:00:05 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:18 stassats, I'm reading the lispdoc function and trying to figure out what it's doing there 14:00:40 Xach: it's probably one of those communist no-export lisp implementation economies 14:01:06 i believe it'd be (mapcan #'slot-definition-initargs (class-slots class)) 14:01:09 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 14:01:49 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 14:02:13 stassats, maybe you are right 14:02:15 *Xach* finds it amazing that clozure's phone number is 617-MAD-LISP 14:02:27 heheh 14:02:36 well, really, who else would want it? :) 14:02:43 *Xach* has 207-XXX-FLIP 14:02:55 (sadly, WIG wasn't availble) 14:03:59 very hard to do that sort of messing here except for 1800 numbers; in a normal number the first three digits have actual meaning 14:04:43 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-155-215-188.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:49 rsynnott: I wonder if they chose MAD, or it was a "lucky" coincidence. 14:05:07 they could have just written it 617-623-LISP 14:05:12 though using mapcan doesn't make sbcl happy 14:05:28 likely they chose it 14:07:19 SB-MOP:CLASS-SLOTS called on #, which is not yet finalized. 14:07:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@217.75.64.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:44 should I finalize it first 14:07:46 well, finalize it! 14:08:02 I don't remember the mop method 14:08:14 finalize-inheritance 14:09:13 stassats, it doesn't work (sb-mop:class-slots (sb-mop:finalize-inheritance (find-class 'IOLIB.SOCKETS:DATAGRAM-SOCKET))) 14:09:29 no wonder 14:09:34 why ? 14:10:15 why do you think finalize-inheritance returns a class? 14:11:06 pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has joined #lisp 14:11:17 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:21 stupid me :) 14:11:30 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.5] has joined #lisp 14:11:34 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest38328 14:13:26 oohhh :) 14:17:59 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:02 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:36 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:26:02 fe[nl]ix, http://www.wingstech.it/kiuma/iolib/IOLIB.html 14:27:36 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 14:29:17 How to traverse a folder and put all subfolders in a list ? 14:29:47 prljavi_hari: I'd use cl-fad for that 14:30:32 fe[nl]ix / luis: The docstring of CFFI:WITH-FOREIGN-STRING is grammatically screwed up. 14:30:38 stassats, why do I have this issue ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/111849 14:31:28 I want to put poackages folders to a list to push that on asdf:*cantral-registry* 14:31:29 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:31:56 prljavi_hari: are you still using the latest asdf file? 14:31:58 kiuma: first, don't use mapcan, as i said above 14:32:14 mapcan is destructive and destroys SBCL 14:32:17 yes, it works now 14:34:15 How to get a filename as a string ? Do I use with-file-open or something ? 14:34:30 prljavi_hari: namestring 14:34:46 maybe prljavi_hari means read file into a string? 14:35:03 yes 14:35:20 just filename 14:35:35 what filename? 14:36:04 i mean folder name, sorry 14:36:17 prljavi_hari: you can use (asdf:initialize-source-registry '(:source-registry :inherit-configuration (:tree "/path/to/stuff"))) 14:36:49 oh, i missed your original question 14:36:50 should have a trailing slash on /path/to/stuff/, sorry. 14:37:16 ok 14:38:00 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:44 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:49 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:40:31 Does Arthur Lemmens hang out on here? 14:40:53 stassats, same issue with mapcar 14:41:03 dlowe: I don't think so. 14:41:34 What's the preferred to get the size of a foreign allocated string? (length (foreign-string-to-lisp ))? 14:42:25 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:40 kiuma: did you restart sbcl? 14:42:47 stassats, yes 14:43:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111849#1 14:43:05 I wonder if rucksack was abandoned because of Elephant's success 14:43:17 abandoned? 14:43:28 drewc sings its praises all the time. maybe it's perfected. 14:43:30 drewc uses rucksack 14:43:46 It's not quite perfect. :/ 14:43:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:06 tcr: foreign-string-length ? 14:44:11 -!- stettber` is now known as stettberger 14:44:22 but it's pretty much been abandoned. No changes since May of last year. 14:44:50 dlowe: I don't know about rucksack, but that metric wouldn't work on a lot of software i use and maintain. 14:45:21 tcr: though that seems to return the length in octets 14:45:48 foreign-string-length doesn't seem to be exported 14:46:05 Xach: *shrug* there's outstanding patches on rucksack-devel. Lots of TODO items. It just doesn't feel like someone's maintaining it anymore 14:46:18 stassats, to me ? 14:46:25 kiuma: no 14:47:01 kiuma: your code works for me 14:47:18 except for the list part where it expects symbols, but that's another issue 14:47:47 stassats, wait one second 14:48:12 we've spent quite a few fixes to rucksack at some points, and neither of our patches were incorporated. since then we even dropped our repo holding our changes... 14:48:21 kiuma: and you asked about lowercasing inside format earlier, but are not using it here. (format t ":~a" (string-downcase (symbol-name x))) => (format t ":~(~a~)" x) 14:48:46 attila_lendvai: that's too bad. I would have liked some of those fixes 14:49:05 It's a nice system. Reminds me of git. 14:49:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:49:33 stassats, yes :) I didn't patched that part 14:49:37 sorry 14:50:16 I'll do it now:) 14:51:54 stassats, http://www.wingstech.it/kiuma/iolib/lispdoc.lisp and on a fresh sbcl `(lispdoc:lispdoc-html #P"/tmp/" :iolib)` 14:54:10 i have no errors 14:55:28 mm... do you have the latest iolib (from git) ? 14:55:42 and eval-when not at the toplevel doesn't make sense 14:55:58 stassats, it was the desperation :) 14:56:07 yes, latest iolib and latest SBCL 14:56:56 mah.. I'll delete my .fasls 14:57:49 stassats, last thing: do you have any comment on output generation ? should I improve it somewhere 14:57:51 ? 14:57:54 pnq [asdf@AC814A6C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:15 and slots can have several initargs, so your taking FIRST of it isn't good 14:58:52 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:58:56 ok I'll patch it 14:59:03 i don't know, the code looks awful to me 14:59:25 html or lisp ? 14:59:28 lisp 14:59:37 not mine :) 14:59:44 *not all 15:00:07 stassats, closer-mop then ? 15:00:22 should I start a new small project ? 15:00:38 PaulWhoIsAGhost [~linus@128-23-138-13.musc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:00:57 closer-mop is certainly the way for MOP 15:01:31 yea I think so 15:02:20 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-97.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:05:15 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:05:37 -!- PaulWhoIsAGhost [~linus@128-23-138-13.musc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:07:59 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:44 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:10:09 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:12:24 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:16:23 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:52 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:17:04 my upgrade of sbcl that i thought was working has gone kerflooey 15:17:14 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 15:17:19 i get the error from sbcl --> can't find core file at /foo/bar/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core 15:17:23 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:35 is there a core there? 15:17:36 where is that configured ? 15:17:44 --core parameter 15:17:54 and SBCL_HOME 15:18:17 http://ducktypo.blogspot.com/2010/06/new-ruby-ecosystem.html <- Anyone have a response to this showing that all of this was accomplished in 1992 with CL? 15:18:19 the thing is.. it was working alright 15:18:49 Makoryu: hardly seems relevant 15:19:07 Makoryu: does anybody care about educating ruby fanboys? 15:19:10 stassats, ah, i need to put SBCL_HOME in my .bashrc 15:19:14 tnx 15:19:57 can i put sbcl_home in my .sbclrc ? 15:20:14 stassats: Hey now. When you debate stuff, you can't ever expect to change the mind of the person you're arguing with, but you usually have a good shot at convincing a bunch of onlookers. 15:20:32 zophy: nope 15:20:59 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.144.49] has joined #lisp 15:22:29 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.4/20100611134546]] 15:22:41 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 15:22:56 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 15:24:10 electronoob [~lane@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:34 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:27:42 can someone tell me why : (closer-mop:class-default-initargs (find-class 'IOLIB.SOCKETS:datagram-SOCKET)) --> ((:TYPE :DATAGRAM #)) 15:27:43 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:44 and 15:27:52 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:00 (funcall (third (first (closer-mop:class-default-initargs (find-class 'IOLIB.SOCKETS:datagram-SOCKET))))) --> :datagram 15:28:16 asarch [~asarch@187.132.83.90] has joined #lisp 15:28:28 why do I have # from closer-mop:class-default-initargs ? 15:29:15 it's one of the ways to implement :default-initargs option 15:29:23 Quick question for unicode users: Do you want invalid octets on input to signal an error or be silently replaced? Same with output: signal an error or be silently replaced? 15:29:59 rtoym: i want to detected it as soon as possible 15:30:08 so, an error for me 15:30:21 depends on if I'm validating XML or accepting user input 15:30:39 continuable error (maybe add a way to squash it through some special variable if it would make any difference in speed, but I doubt it) 15:31:06 rtoym: error + restart when validating, #\Null-escaping when accepting input 15:31:45 morning 15:31:57 hi slyrus 15:32:12 stassats: Ok. 15:32:20 hmm, the #\Null-escaping could just be a restart 15:32:29 fe[nl]ix: Ok. What do you mean #\Null-escaping? 15:32:33 fe[nl]ix, do you like the api of iolib i've generated ? 15:32:36 no 15:32:52 why ? what do I have to change ? 15:33:06 I dislike automatic doc generation 15:33:09 in general 15:33:12 ah ok 15:33:26 it could be a nice beginning, though 15:33:41 dlowe, me ? 15:33:49 dlowe: not unless the generator can read my mind 15:33:59 pnq_ [asdf@AC815DCF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:10 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.83.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:18 -!- pnq [asdf@AC814A6C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:24 fe[nl]ix, it simply write down your docstrings 15:34:36 fe[nl]ix: I mean to take the generated output and write text around it 15:34:45 in alphabetic order. that's useless 15:35:10 fe[nl]ix: No one said it had to stay in alphabetic order 15:35:38 fe[nl]ix, I can make it more customizable, I only just not started from 0 15:35:50 it's the beginning 15:36:07 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.176] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 so if someone has suggestion let's discuss them :) 15:36:44 *suggestions 15:37:01 dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has joined #lisp 15:37:14 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:00 *tcr* 's documentation is 100% generated. Real time saver. 15:38:03 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:38:59 tcr, what do you use ? 15:39:00 entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.37] has joined #lisp 15:39:21 hacky homebrewn stuff. 15:39:58 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:40:34 you still need to write accurate docstrings 15:40:42 another thing on mop: why closer-mop:class-default-initargs returns ((:TYPE :DATAGRAM #)) and not (:TYPE :DATAGRAM #) ? 15:41:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 15:41:36 rtoym: I want encodings to be total functions 15:41:44 stupid slime question: if I C-c C-p an expression and get a something like # in the *slime-description* window, can I think slime-inspect that result? I can't seem to make it do that. 15:41:45 and perhaps be invertible, but that's controversial 15:42:01 What's a total function? 15:42:04 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:05 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:42:14 slyrus: C-c C-v i 15:42:21 rtoym: works on all possible inputs 15:42:32 stassats: in slime-description? 15:42:49 stassats: that's undefined for me :( 15:43:36 fe[nl]ix: So when encountering invalid octets on input you want the resulting string to contain some valid character? 15:43:37 rtoym: actually, always invertible 15:43:40 then you can't do it indeed 15:43:59 rtoym: something like UTF-8b 15:44:05 -!- pnq_ [asdf@AC815DCF.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 15:44:16 so use inspector directly through C-c I 15:44:16 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:44:27 slyrus: the closed thing is to use ~/swank::p/; you can get that on paste.lisp, or my slime-presentation from 2008 15:44:39 np : I 'm starting to understand 15:44:40 fe[nl]ix: Then wouldn't you just use utf-8b? 15:44:45 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:41 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 stassats: but where should I be when I do C-c I? When I do that from *slime-description* I get: "Inspect value (evaluated): {10068E42F1}>" which is not what I'm looking for, and when I do it from the source buffer, I get the source expression itself. 15:46:10 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:46:25 I want to inspect the results of evaluating that expression. 15:46:27 stassats, you where right, orrible :) 15:46:32 slyrus: C-c I instead of C-c C-p 15:46:44 yeah, that's with C-c I 15:47:11 C-c I evaluates what you give to it 15:47:21 rtoym: it would be nice, though, to also have UTF-16b and UTF-32b 15:47:27 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.89.106] has joined #lisp 15:48:31 fe[nl]ix: Ok. cmucl has none of those and currently all formats just use some appropriate replacement character. I'm trying to set up something to handle cause errors on bad octets/characters. 15:48:40 fe[nl]ix, for babel ? 15:48:51 s/handle// 15:48:57 tcr: I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting with swank::p 15:49:20 Does any actually use utf-16 and utf-32? 15:49:37 I think what I want is something like slime-inspect-eval-least-expression instead of slime-pprint-eval-last-expression 15:49:50 slyrus: a function you can use as in a format ~// directive 15:49:51 rtoym: the typical use case is a text editor. you don't want it to err on invalid input and you want it to save back the unmodified parts of the file as they were 15:50:11 slyrus: Oh just that? well that's trivially to write 15:50:29 kiuma: perhaps 15:52:53 dlowe: i use rucksack because elephant is a lot more broken in a lot worse ways 15:52:54 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:53:16 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:54:01 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202780.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-potxpcdktsykaiba] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:54:41 drewc: I liked rucksack, but there were some pretty major (although seemingly very fixable, just not by me :( ) performance problems I ran into 15:55:07 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179161054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 15:56:13 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:07 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:57:13 slyrus: any performance issues i've run into have just been a matter of using proper indexes and using finer-grained transactions. However, there are some issues with transactions being serial in nature... i have some code that does MVCC instead, but is not ready for prime time 15:57:30 in the standard use case, i've found it to outperform the alternatives. 15:58:33 drewc: My results differed. There seemed to be a pretty clear n^2 blowup that was dragging things to a crawl with >100k items. But that was a while ago. 15:59:05 it should be nice to have all of encodings for babel 15:59:14 slyrus: well, the code hasn't changed in a while.. what was the use case? 15:59:34 reasoning in terms of imap conversions 15:59:46 loading some fairly simple data about a large number of different species. I'd be happy to send you the code if you want to take a look :) 16:00:55 slyrus: i would yeah, i have some somewhat performance sensitive code myself, so a few other examples will help make sure my fixes work. 16:00:59 benny` [~user@i577A2E28.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:12 *Xach* must finish up his cdb stuff sometime soon 16:01:24 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.144.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:28 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:16 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 -!- benny [~user@i577A1374.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:03:01 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:17 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:41 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:07:57 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:10:53 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:41 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.142] has joined #lisp 16:14:10 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:31 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-97.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 16:15:29 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.230.77] has quit [Quit: off] 16:15:31 galaxywatcher_ [~galaxywat@218.188.76.11] has joined #lisp 16:15:45 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:45 -!- galaxywatcher_ is now known as galaxywatcher 16:20:53 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Quit: Flöh.] 16:24:09 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:26:10 given a generic function is it possible to get all its methods without knowing specializers ? 16:27:16 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:37 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:28:23 mop:generic-function-methods 16:28:27 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:53 Hi all. Is there a way to use ccl without sse2? Or is it impossible? 16:29:37 Lis: use a PPC? :P 16:29:59 No, just a old computer 16:31:25 no.... what i meant was that CCL run (ran?) primarily on macs, and supports (supported?) the PPC arch, which has _never_ has sse2 as that's an intel instruction set... so it is (was?) surely possible 16:31:55 i was being cheeky of course 16:31:57 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:40 hm 16:34:24 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:34:31 Doesn't every intel mac have sse2? 16:35:27 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 rtoym: yes 16:36:08 I do not have a mac... 16:36:39 I use an old 600mhz intel 16:37:06 hmm, CCL's history would make demanding SSE2 onx86 very likely 16:37:19 it was originally only for AMD64, which almost all have SSE2 also 16:37:39 good bye 16:37:41 so sbcl > ccl? 16:37:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:39:26 Hm, I try recompiling ccl first 16:39:48 How does that help anything? 16:40:43 Lis: well, sbcl > ccl IF you don't have SSE2, maybe :) 16:41:15 Depends on weather it compiles without sse2 though 16:41:19 -!- laynor [~user@dhcp-892b3c6f.ucd.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:32 i suspect the weather has little to do with it :P 16:42:24 well, it can overheat 16:42:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:01 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:31 It seems unlikely that just recompiling ccl will automagically give you a ccl without sse2. 16:43:37 Hmm. Duane's suggestion sounded good, but the i386 ABI says that struct values are done by the caller allocating space for the return value, and putting the address of that space on the stack. Whereas long long goes through EAX/EDX, I believe. So this doesn't actually help. 16:44:36 luis: ping 16:44:41 drewc: I came here once and asked wich of the dozens of distributions I should use for learning lisp. Most people gave nonsense answers like yours. Now I have a problem wich could had been completely avoided if someone had told me this before. 16:44:48 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:44:50 rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has joined #lisp 16:45:13 Doesn't CCL use SSE as an x87 replacement? 16:45:27 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 16:45:28 lichtblau: that could be solved with libffi, but I'm not sure luis would like that dependency 16:45:52 Lis: you can still use sbcl 16:45:54 (I think) 16:46:00 Lis: If you have an old machine without sse2, try clisp, cmucl, or ecl. 16:46:20 drewc: were you looking for me the other day? 16:46:21 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:52 rtoym: I don't think sbcl requires sse2, either 16:47:03 What's wrong with this line : (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 8000)) ? Emacs just waits ... 16:47:38 rsynnott: You're probably right. 16:47:45 prljavi_hari: what Lisp? 16:47:46 recompiling without SSE2 is not possible. I try sbcl... 16:47:49 prljavi_hari: single-threaded lisp, perhaps? 16:47:53 prljavi_hari: the function is running. if you have threads in your CL, it will start in a new thread and return to the repl. 16:48:07 clisp on windows 16:48:37 prljavi_hari: yeah, single threaded. 16:48:40 So, what Xach said. 16:48:40 Hello! Could somebody please explain the role of '&more' lambda list keyword in SBCL/CMUCL? What it is used for? 16:49:07 so I should go to sbcl or what ? 16:51:11 -!- lichtblau [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:18 hah! 16:51:30 *Xach* gets from zero to hunchentoot with the lispworks demo in 60 seconds 16:51:45 (on windows) 16:52:24 gigamonkey: i was, wanted to discuss my progress (or lack thereof) on my article... but i don't have the time right now... launching monday, have at least a weeks worth of work to do before then ;) 16:52:40 sbclive.org does not seem to be intimately related to SBCL, in case anyone was wondering... 16:54:28 Is '&more' described somewhere in user's documentation? I cannot find anything about it... 16:54:52 bmac [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has joined #lisp 16:55:36 *rtoym* can't find anything either. 16:56:31 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:56:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-125-157.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:21 Xach: with quicklisp? 16:57:36 prljavi_hari: ccl has threads on windows 16:58:22 rsynnott: yeah. 16:58:26 -!- bmac_ [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:58:29 impressive 16:58:46 windows complained about opening up a listening port, but it worked. 16:59:17 (it didn't complain about downloading, compiling & loading possibly eeeevil lisp programs though) 16:59:42 last time I tried to use Lisp on Windows (just to see if I could run a simple CommonQT thing I had running on Linux and MacOS) I gave up in disgust due to annoyingness of installing things 16:59:47 Lis: told you what before? which nonsense answer? 16:59:59 Xach: did you sort out a solution for proxies etc in the end? 17:00:14 rsynnott: i have some ideas but no solutions. fortunately i'm pretty far from the end. 17:01:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.8] 17:06:19 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:19 sbcl just works... and I just read SBCL has native threads while clisp doesnt? 17:06:47 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 17:06:50 clisp has threads too 17:07:03 "native threads" 17:07:17 hm. I'm confused 17:07:27 that's what i implied 17:08:00 Do I need to use a external lib for booth distributions to work with threads? 17:08:29 no 17:08:54 though you might want to for multi-implementation compatibility purposes 17:09:16 minion: tell Lis about bordeaux-threads 17:09:17 Lis: direct your attention towards bordeaux-threads: Portable shared-state concurrency for Common Lisp Bordeaux-Threads is a library to write multi-threaded applications in a portable way. http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 17:10:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:50 -!- rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:19 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:23 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:12:33 fe[nl]ix: pong 17:12:42 yaaaa.... many .c file and a configure... clisp is my distribution :D 17:13:41 *rsynnott* doesn't see what the upside of lots of c files is supposed to be :) 17:13:49 luis: how about integrating libffi into cffi ? 17:14:10 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 17:14:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:14:33 would it be worth adding a lock implementation to bordeaux-threads that used FFI, instead of trying to wrap the implementation's locks ? 17:14:47 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 we fe[nl]ix 17:17:31 hi Blkt 17:17:48 hi 17:17:48 Fare, memo from slyrus__: 2.003 or 2.103? 17:18:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:18 minion: memo for slyrus: please upgrade to 2.003, not to 2.106. 17:18:18 Remembered. I'll tell slyrus when he/she/it next speaks. 17:20:42 Fare: the manual says that asdf:ensure-source-registry takes an argument, but the code says it takes no argument. do you know which one is meant to be right? 17:23:30 Xach: good question. I think I hesitated, because it's an "initialize on demand" thingie, but then what if it already has been initialized with a different parameter? 17:23:47 It's definitely a bug that source and doc should diverge. 17:23:55 Xach: what do you think makes more sense? 17:24:10 (thanks for noticing) 17:24:12 god I suck. My distribution comes with clisp preinstalled. 17:24:28 Lis, is that bad? I'm sure it can be cured. 17:24:38 Fare: the documentation makes sense to me. it's what i tried first when i read the docs to try to add a tree to my configuration. 17:24:57 oops. 17:25:02 OK, so fix the code. 17:25:33 Do you think it warrants an immediate 2.004 release, or should I let improvements pile up in master first? 17:25:59 carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.208] has joined #lisp 17:26:09 Fare: I'm not sure. I think it's bad to have the mismatch in the manual linger. 17:26:34 find-system calls that function without a parameter 17:26:43 (and indeed, what parameter could it provide?) 17:27:02 if you want to give a parameter, I suppose initialize-source-registry is what you want, no? 17:28:24 Fare: My impression from initialize-bar/ensure-bar pairs is that ensure-bar may be called many times and only be expensive the first time. 17:28:35 yes 17:28:39 that's the point. 17:28:42 -!- Guest38328 is now known as pkhuong 17:28:49 ok, you make sense. 17:28:51 Fare: So I prefer to use ensure-bar. 17:28:57 I'm committing that in 2.107 17:29:09 hesitating about making a 2.004 just for that, though. 17:29:21 fe[nl]ix: I don't see how you can get the details right if you use FFI. 17:29:41 Fare: which asdf is the manual on common-lisp.net meant to document? 17:29:42 threads aren't a library feature. 17:29:43 pkhuong: for example ? 17:30:02 pkhuong: locks not threads 17:30:07 (or should said parameter default to *source-registry-parameter* or some such? 17:30:29 Xach, good question. I haven't thought about it. Release or head? 17:30:37 fe[nl]ix: they go hand in hand. 17:30:48 For instance, interrupt and pseudo atomicity in sbcl. 17:30:52 Fare: I think I'd expect release, if that's what most people would get with their implementation. 17:31:28 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-206.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:31:31 fe[nl]ix, in my XCVB standalone forking backend, not only does SBCL crash at the first GC whereas CCL is stable; I seem to be losing SIGCHLD signals! 17:31:48 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:32:55 Since clisp is single threaded, is there a lisp command to start something in other process -' 17:33:03 ? 17:33:06 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:18 Xach: good call. 17:33:22 -!- fitzgen|away [~fitzgen@c-67-201-205-34.reshall.wwu.edu] has left #lisp 17:33:34 Fare: wow 17:34:01 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:34:25 roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 17:34:30 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest68305 17:36:52 pkhuong_: so it'ws not possible with only FFI, but we also need with-interrupts & co. 17:36:54 anything else ? 17:38:38 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:16 fe[nl]ix: I don't know, it depends on each platform. 17:40:26 If your implementation doesn't provide sensibly working concurrency control, you should file a bug, not try to assume a thin layer over some random C functions will be enough. 17:40:43 anything you'll come up with will be brittle at best and subtly wrong at worst. 17:42:30 in that case I should file bugs with all implementations 17:43:00 except LW, perhaps 17:43:02 yes... What makes you think you'll be able to get it right on every implementation when each one can't? 17:43:12 can't or won't 17:43:13 ? 17:43:51 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 some have only one type of locks, others have two 17:45:02 oh, and when I start from a saved image, it seems to be having more trouble than when I load the code into a fresh image... sigh. 17:45:16 some have one lock acquisition function for each lock type, others have just one 17:45:27 some have semaphores, others don't 17:45:35 et cætera... 17:45:42 fe[nl]ix: build the rest on top of what's natively available, and even then you may run into problems with interrupts. 17:46:46 I was wondering how to do a mapping of sigprocmask between lisp and cffi. I'm not sure there's any portable decompilation FROM a sigset to a Lisp bitvector or anythin. 17:47:15 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:47:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:47:22 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:47:27 how do I get a list of all valid signals on a given platform? 17:47:50 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 kill -l? 17:49:24 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:35 meh. It doesn't list realtime signals, for instance 17:50:18 I was thinking of just assuming signals are from 0 below 64 (or some other thing you #+ ). 17:50:23 Fare: What do they look like? 17:50:36 My output has a lot of realtime-looking crap in it, but it's not very specific. 17:52:03 Xach: man sigsetops - it's opaque in POSIX. 17:52:30 could be a balanced tree of pointers to windows handles, for all we know. 17:52:39 but in practice, not. 17:52:56 Fare: man signal 17:52:57 ? 17:53:08 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.142.249] has joined #lisp 17:53:27 yeah, man 7 signal - apparently doesn't cover that information - it might not be available portably :-/ 17:53:30 on linux it's man signal.h 17:53:37 ah, nope 17:53:41 it's man 0p signal.h 17:53:55 available as part of POSIX Programmer Manual 17:54:27 from there you can start search towards platform-specific info 17:54:41 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:54 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.89.106] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:55:20 http://www.opengroup.org/unix/online.html <--- I'd start here then check individual systems... 17:55:33 hello lispers 17:55:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:37 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:59:24 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 17:59:58 Fare: also, getconf RTSIG_MAX 18:00:00 hi, how can I resolv an IP address with SBCL, like nslookup? 18:00:13 ignotus: with CFFI 18:00:28 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 18:00:30 fusss: thanks 18:00:46 ignotus: gethostbyaddr 18:01:12 fusss: I see, ok:) 18:01:14 also, SIGRTMIN and SIGRTMAX in signal.h 18:01:22 ignotus: you might have to unroll the definition for hostent by hand though :-/ 18:01:41 fusss: eh ? 18:01:45 There's got to be something easier than rolling your own lookup functions. 18:01:47 ignotus: sb-socket might have it already 18:01:49 sb-bsd-sockets:get-host-by-name 18:01:51 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Name-Service.html#Name-Service 18:02:00 *rme* can use Google 18:02:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:16 i was half-right 18:02:17 p_l|backup, sure, but noone guarantees that signals are numbers from 0 to RTSIG_MAX. 18:02:33 (it might be a reasonable semi-portable assumption) 18:02:35 fusss stassats ahh, thanks!! 18:02:47 rme: checking, thanks:) 18:03:25 whoa, I din't know about section 0 of the manual! 18:04:12 (nah it's section 7) 18:08:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-58.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:09:24 fe[nl]ix: that might work in a separate system, yeah. It'd be really silly for cffi-abcl.lisp, though, heh. 18:10:47 pnq [asdf@AC828BF3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:09 Fare: realtime signals however are numbered 18:12:20 like your days. 18:13:05 RTMIN & RTMAX are written off as standard API... of course whether you can depend on the OS to implement stuff properly is another thing (like MAP_NORESERVE, I guess...) 18:13:18 luis: not in a separate system, but as a conditional dependency 18:13:19 could SIGRTMIN be an array so that +1 means increasing by a structure-long stride? I don't think so 18:13:37 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75763f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:16 Fare: no, SIGRTMIN and SIGRTMAX are either integer constants or integer-returning functions 18:14:23 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-206.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 18:14:25 ok, so (defparameter max-signal sigrtmax) is a good semi-portable assumption? 18:15:39 Fare: semi-portable assumption would be to write a C function to which you'd FFI, which would basically be cl_sigrtmin(){return SIGRTMIN;} cl_sigrtmax(){return SIGRTMAX;} 18:16:50 the only thing guaranteed is that the numbers between those two constants all specify separate RT signals 18:16:57 (no holes in numbering etc) 18:18:07 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:19:23 fe[nl]ix: if i understand you correctly that not each lisp accesses things in such a way that concurrency is free? 18:19:28 conncurrency 18:20:34 C#/.NET is a language as well like that.. nothing is syncronized 18:21:02 unless the user wants to do it.. the excuse its might be faster that no lib code uses locks 18:21:31 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:21:40 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 18:21:58 i thought i knew everything about concurrency and programming untiul i start in C# and realized how much bad code i have out there in other loangauges 18:22:50 lisp is the same way as C#@ except it "hides" concurrentmodification errors 18:23:18 lisp is the same way as C# except it "hides" concurrent modification programing bugs by not complaining or erroring 18:24:17 if you want shared-state concurrency, you better do it explicit, not implicit... too many demons hide in that 18:24:20 so if two threads are adding to a hashtable for instance.. and not using a lock lisp doesnt complian or error 18:24:53 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-43-16.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 18:25:52 my secondlife lisp bot project i have 1000s of threads using lisp at once 18:26:14 though the forience code synchronizes the calls 18:26:17 concurrent hash table would be nice... 18:26:51 locking per key-entry in hashtable, for example 18:26:53 In ccl, hash table access is thread-safe. 18:27:10 rme: is the lock for the whole hashtable or for each key? 18:27:44 its a good idea but cant protect user from doing (unless (containslogic) (aditlogic)) 18:27:55 add-it-logic 18:28:33 each can can have its own lock.. and the hashtable needs its own lock 18:28:37 dmiles_afk: then you need a longer-lived locks available 18:28:45 each key can have its own lock.. and the hashtable needs its own lock 18:29:03 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/Internals/LockFreeHashTables 18:29:23 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 p_l|backup: yeah.. the concurrent hashtable i envision .. i wrote a "enforcer": fcode.. that all i do.. dont laugh.. 18:30:08 if i check for a lock on each operation.. if there is no lock i thow an exception ;) 18:30:14 erm error 18:30:38 rme: still, a per-key lock would be IMHO still useful *outside* hashtable access code (i.e. lock on key, do stuff, release key) 18:30:45 that the only usefull concurrent hashtanle impl that is sasne 18:31:27 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 18:31:33 per key stuff is a good idea to.. i need to figure out the best way to enforce that 18:32:34 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B4E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:06 dmiles_afk: atomically accessed bitmap? 18:33:12 if guess if someone is doing stuff on a key that is not locked to issue a warning 18:33:46 (or a 1-bit lock in each key entry) 18:34:03 good exampole why perkey locks are very imporatn 18:34:03 with atomic changes 18:34:11 good example why per-key locks are very imporatn 18:35:33 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F240.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:42 i started to be bad one day and worked arround a lock of perkey lock 18:35:51 i started to be bad one day and worked arround a lack of perkey lock 18:36:08 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:11 by letting the "first gethash" npot be in the lock 18:36:32 then if it was truely missing .. create the lock.. and ask again 18:37:09 but hrrm .. i see now.. the problem was a missing perkey lock for this access 18:38:05 well because i was interested int he value of the key mainly.. not its existance 18:38:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:41 in which then i would start preforming atomic operations ;) 18:39:37 with per-key locking .. i could be better off knowing its value wouldnt change durrening such operation 18:39:57 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 what i did as a bandade is alll 1000 threads when they have a side effect based have to run themselves thru a single task queue ;( 18:41:49 task queue = one example of that task queue was writing debug messages 18:42:14 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:02 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:02 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 18:47:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:38 slyrus___ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:29 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:49 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:46 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 18:57:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.8] 18:58:22 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02:47 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:05:23 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 19:07:20 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:08:15 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:41 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:09 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:13 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:24 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:05 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:11:41 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:18 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 19:19:31 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:19:42 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:19:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:56 maxigas [~user@host86-173-3-184.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:25:36 "We have doseq, and it works on hash-maps, too." 19:28:09 lispm [~lispm@g231144004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:40 -!- lispm [~lispm@g231144004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:12 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:57 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 sellout [~greg@WALKER-ONE-EIGHTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 19:44:36 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:44:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.142.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:03 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 19:47:06 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-32-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-34-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:17 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.169.127] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 Where do I find a lib wich contains the function gethostname? 19:52:49 ah 19:55:37 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:56:28 -!- sellout [~greg@WALKER-ONE-EIGHTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: sellout] 19:57:57 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:02:33 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:05:22 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:26 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:59 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 20:07:17 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:43 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 20:14:39 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:15:16 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 20:15:49 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:49 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:21:15 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:25 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-138.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:23:30 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:53 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 20:27:54 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:28 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:59 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:05 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:29:08 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 20:29:32 hello 20:30:27 One here, 999999999 to go... 20:30:50 having some trouble with sbcl from CVS + clbuild 20:31:34 (lisp-implementation-version) => "1.0.39.21" 20:31:54 can't get closure-html to compile 20:32:28 wondering if it is just me or if anyone else has seen this problem? 20:33:45 mon_key: what happens? 20:34:00 with (asdf:operate 'asdf:compile-op :closure-html) 20:34:04 I was able to get it to compile with a recent-ish sbcl, but not 1.0.39.21 20:34:27 at the sgml-dump-dtd i'm dropped into the debugger. 20:35:17 I have it compiling on a slightly older sbcl 20:35:25 but on a different machine 20:36:13 this is my backtrace: 20:36:23 ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD ASDF:PERFORM (ASDF:COMPILE-OP ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE)) ..) 20:37:06 thats frame 0 20:37:40 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: hark to the whistles] 20:37:54 I'm seeing this w/ lisp-on-lines, ucw, as well. 20:38:25 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 20:39:01 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:03 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:37 is there an error in the compile output? 20:39:44 at the end, it's too late, unfortunately. 20:40:07 lemme see 20:40:30 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:09 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:54 dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has joined #lisp 20:44:10 not that I can see. but comparing the .fasl's generated on system A against system B where A <- failing and B <- 1.0.39.18 system A appears to bail w/ closure-html/src/parse/pt.fasl 20:44:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:45:45 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:47:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:51:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:52:07 @xach its defitely SGML::DUMP-DTD thats the problem 20:52:10 vonli [~user@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:53:42 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:54:01 -!- lejoon is now known as Lejeune 20:57:55 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:03 cliki says "telent CLX" (working title, also known as portable-clx) is used in SBCL 20:58:30 so does sbcl come with clx? 20:59:39 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:00 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:29 iirc no 21:00:40 thx 21:00:53 lichtblau [~user@pD9542FCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:15 -!- spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:37 hey lichtblau! 21:04:02 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:16 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:11 *_3b* suspects asdf2 broke the warning suppression code in the closure-html .asd 21:05:27 what i thought too. 21:06:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:52 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:46 _3b: the asdf2 part... I don't know which part. 21:07:47 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:02 mon_key: no 21:08:25 <_3b> though it seems to be a legitimate WARNING, so probably the code in closure-html should be fixed too 21:08:33 mon_key: it's the building of sgml::*simple-catalog*.. it uses merge-pathnames "/resources" (asdf:component-relative-pathname (asdf:find-system :closure-html)) 21:08:42 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:55 the latter has name and type "asd" 21:09:13 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:26 so the dtd names get merged with "asd" type 21:09:55 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:16 <_3b> yeah, that sounds bad too 21:11:13 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:25 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:30 adeht: what is "the later"? Are you saying the `merge-pathnames'? 21:11:42 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:11:54 look at html-parser.lisp, defparameter sgml::*simple-catalog* 21:12:19 the base pathname will have an "asd" type 21:12:19 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:30 bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 21:13:13 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:50 What does this character mean in a string? --> 21:13:52 <_3b> adeht: does it actually try to use those filenames t some point? 21:14:03 mon_key: your name was my EFNet handle, 1997 - 1999 ;-) 21:14:25 adeht: ok looking 21:14:41 fusss: No shit? sorry 'bout that :( 21:14:47 you aaite 21:14:50 *maxigas* gets it from SBCL REPL. 21:15:21 here I thought I had a bead on the good moniker... 21:15:24 <_3b> maxigas: don't see anything after the --> 21:16:08 <_3b> maxigas: what does sbcl call it if you pull it out of the string? 21:16:15 _3b: oops 21:16:24 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 21:16:30 The variable | 21:16:39 3b: yes, it tries to open them 21:16:50 it's a caret followed by an at sign: ^@ 21:16:55 -!- electronoob [~lane@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:12 <_3b> maxigas: ah, i suspect that is emacs way of printing the character with code 0 21:17:26 *maxigas* is in emacs 21:17:37 could be right 21:19:27 <_3b> adeht: i think it breaks on the multiple definitions of dump-dtd before it gets to that point here 21:20:46 3b: that just results in a warning, and the asd file has methods to "deal" with those 21:21:01 <_3b> adeht: do they work on asdf2? 21:21:08 3b: I think so 21:21:20 *_3b* gets dumped into the debugger 21:21:38 here (1.0.39.20) I get the open failure because of the .asd type 21:21:54 <_3b> yeah, i get that if i comment out a dump-dtd 21:22:05 the workaround I'll try now is to drop the type from the base 21:22:28 adeht: great, glad to know i'm not loosing ma mind :) 21:23:12 ok, appears to compile & load now 21:23:24 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.78.3] has joined #lisp 21:24:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:47 *_3b* loads random systems to see if anything of mine broke on asdf2 21:25:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111863 21:25:14 I also renamed one dump-dtd 21:25:24 but I think it'll work without that 21:25:57 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:27:19 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:27:47 -!- Lejeune [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:30:18 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:19 hmm, yes apparently you need the rename as well 21:30:33 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:32:38 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:50 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 21:32:50 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:50 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:20 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:37:06 adeht: GREAT SUCCESS! Thank you. 21:39:03 TR2N [email@89.180.129.244] has joined #lisp 21:39:17 np 21:39:32 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:39:59 adeht: It was for me :) Thanks again. 21:40:56 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 21:46:00 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-173-3-184.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46:38 maxigas [~user@host86-173-3-184.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:10 so when did SBCL's asdf start using the *user-cache*" in ~/.cache/common-lisp/* ? 21:47:29 <_3b> one ofthe new features of asdf2 i think 21:47:50 slyrus____ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 <_3b> (which was added in 1.0.39.19) 21:48:04 looks like within in the past week 21:48:09 if the bugs reported in it don't get fixed soon it will be unadded 21:48:25 -!- slyrus___ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:48:26 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:14 <-- who found himself at freedesktop.org reading the docs for "XDG_CONFIG_HOME" before hitting up erc for help. 21:50:34 sellout [~greg@dhcp-18-111-77-126.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 21:52:32 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:24 gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:26 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:31 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:17 mon_key, since this week. I'm at least partially to blame. 21:54:31 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 21:54:41 Krystof, which bug are you thinking of? 21:55:10 I fixed all that was reported to sbcl-devel or here (that I saw) in 2.003 21:55:37 (and you probably want to include attila's updated run-sbcl.sh, too) 21:56:15 Fare: No, it makes sense. I remember you requested I look at asdf2 in April on w32. Never was able to do that sorry for not getting back with you on that. Wound up completely killing my w32 setup completely a few days later. 21:57:11 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 ok. If you try it, I'm interested. I think I heard of one guy who reported a bug on LW windows, for whom I released 2.002. - so now I know it works on Windows. 21:59:14 Yes, well looking at it now, this might have caused me a problem: 21:59:16 (try (getenv "APPDATA") "common-lisp" "cache" :implementation) 21:59:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:59:45 mon_key, is it wrong? 22:00:11 If you get the Windows thing right, I welcome a patch -- I had to pretty much guess all the Windows stuff. 22:00:32 No AFAIK it _is_ correct - unless one has a custom homepath. 22:00:51 which you did? 22:01:05 let me see if I can pull up some notes. 22:01:07 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:08 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-43-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:02:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:45 this is what I had going on w/ w32-xp: APPDATA -> %HOME%\appdata-me, HOMEPATH -> %HOME%, USERPROFILE-> %HOME% 22:02:58 ok, for any asdf problems, if any (I hope no more), hit the asdf-devel mailing list 22:03:06 which is 22:04:06 Fare: ok will do. 22:04:48 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:05:42 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:05:42 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:15 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:36 I'm installing cffi through asdf and at some point I get "package MOP not found" from dependency "Lift". I've found a reference of this that suggests changing some code in utilities.lisp . Is this what I should do? 22:07:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@178-164-166-161.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:13 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:50 I'm using CFFI with ASDF. 22:08:25 (Though I'm using a repo of CFFI with modifications as republished under the xcvb project on cl.net) 22:09:32 Kenjin: this makes no sense. do you mean asdf-install? 22:09:39 yes 22:10:20 Kenjin: avoid asdf-install.. use clbuild, or just darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/darcs/cffi 22:10:36 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:38 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 so I've read. But since I already had asdf-install I was going with it. Going to try clbuild then. Thanks. 22:11:36 <_3b> you might be able to get away with just loading cffi with asdf 22:11:44 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12:54 <_3b> switching to a smarter installer is probably a better long term solution though 22:13:34 ok :) 22:13:40 _3b: which is the deficient installer? 22:13:52 <_3b> asdf-install 22:14:03 got it 22:14:07 <_3b> it tries to load every .asd file in whatever it downloads, which is frequently a bad idea 22:14:49 Well, it checks the GPG signature first, so it's gotta work. 22:15:33 <_3b> do people actually sign stuff for asdf-instakl anymore? :p 22:16:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:55 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:27 Fare: Is it ok of me to ask here, how the .cache'd systems differ from the older behavior? 22:19:53 -!- sellout [~greg@dhcp-18-111-77-126.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:20:20 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:21:26 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 aintme [~betateste@37.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:22:15 -!- aintme [~betateste@37.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-22-239.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:26:54 aintme [~user@37.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:28:02 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:28:35 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-233-75.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:35 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-245-34.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:54 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:37 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:39 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-173-3-184.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:40:47 redline65612 [~yaaic@m435e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:44 zek [~shiko@sta21-2-82-235-186-81.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:07 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:47:55 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:14 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:52 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52:18 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 -!- zek [~shiko@sta21-2-82-235-186-81.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 22:52:47 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:52:47 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:13 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:56 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:39 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:52 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:58:50 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 23:02:31 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-208-213.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:03:49 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:25 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:13 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-103-147.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:05:49 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:58 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:16:39 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:20:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:20:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:14 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:22:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:24:16 What is the best way to install Darcs on OS X 10.5.8? 23:28:18 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:28:21 -!- aintme [~user@37.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:30 macports. 23:29:44 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:29:52 I want to read some good CLOS code. Any suggestions? 23:30:08 clim 23:30:17 not too complicated. 23:30:20 pjb: just saw you command-line lisppaste from a few weeks back. Neat. 23:30:28 leo2007: read the spec 23:32:06 Amadiro [~whoppix@host-78-64-88-135.homerun.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:17 that isn't what I asked. 23:32:17 -!- cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:02 the spec is mostly covered in "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp" 23:33:04 mon_key: any link so that I can also try it? :) thanks 23:33:41 leo2007: even if you mistaken "spec" for "CL spec", that's wrong 23:34:14 adeht: I thought you mean file:///usr/local/unix/HyperSpec/Body/07_.htm 23:34:28 phadthai: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111254 23:34:42 leo2007: http://www.mikemac.com/mikemac/clim/clim.html 23:35:03 adeht: thanks. 23:35:38 mon_key: thanks again 23:35:39 _8david [~user@pD9542647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:35:50 mon_key: phadthai: It might be useful to offer the user a shell like command interface, instead of a sexp-based one. 23:35:51 phadthai: thank pjb :) 23:37:28 pjb: where I'm the loser the sexp seems reasonable ;) 23:39:36 -!- lichtblau [~user@pD9542FCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:40:25 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:39 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:56 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:43:55 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.153.136] has joined #lisp 23:44:47 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:46:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:09 cmsimon [~cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:47:19 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:01 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:50:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:56:30 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-220-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:58:05 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp