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00:35:39 1000 00:35:44 tied with lispworks, now 00:35:53 *_3b`* wonders how many lisps have differing values on differemt platforms 00:37:25 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:39 tcr [~tcr@118.101.4.84] has joined #lisp 00:39:51 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-jxavzajunxnxrptk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:49 ccl uses 1000 on 32-bit systems and 1000000 on 64-bit. 00:42:59 clisp is a million also. 00:44:12 What are you doing with internal-time-units-per-second 00:44:15 ? 00:45:15 rtoym: limiting display updates 00:47:39 -!- tcoppi [~nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has left #lisp 00:51:31 -!- Draggor1 is now known as Draggor 00:53:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:56 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:58:15 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:52 abqar_ [~abqar_@122x220x64x254.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:05:45 -!- coyo [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 01:05:57 dullard` [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:07:51 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.90.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:08:10 Hi 01:09:15 dullard`` [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:09:17 -!- dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:11:40 -!- dullard` [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:15 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:51 HG` [~HG@xdslex020.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:24:31 darn, clx-0.7.4 does not compile on lispworks 01:28:13 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:21 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has joined #lisp 01:37:55 -!- dullard`` [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:29 Ouch. 01:40:43 Xach: Any particular reason why not? 01:42:24 **++++ Error in XLIB:TEXT-EXTENTS: (VALUES ARRAY-INDEX (OR NULL INT16 FONT) (OR NULL INT32)) is an illegal type specifier. 01:42:40 that's the most obvious thing I see. 01:43:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:38 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:42 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:47:07 -!- bytecolo` [~user@adsl-71-137-192-101.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:53 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:53:33 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:50 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:42 jsnell: Re yesterday & opt question; sure a compiler-macro would solve it, but in my head I regard inline functions to be kind of hygienic compiler-macros. What's the reason that sbcl will not optimize the inline function as much? 02:01:27 nyef: did you get embedded LaTeX working? 02:01:49 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ddxzefrtnackcvbk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:01:55 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:02:58 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:13 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-eaajzslgegahlxdi] has joined #lisp 02:04:08 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:12 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex020.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:04:36 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:07:32 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:48 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.155.215.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:00 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:09:01 LiamH: In org-mode? Sortof. It doesn't appear to like arrays with more than one row. 02:10:17 I'm not sure if that's my fault or its. 02:10:19 nyef: Hmm, never tried that. What I noticed was that each line was a separate document, so that if you used equation numbers, they were always (1). At least you got it to work. 02:11:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:12:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:15 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:15:37 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:17:33 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:18:54 -!- jasonx [jasonx@93-139-86-186.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:20:02 jasonx_ [jasonx@78-1-131-253.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:22:41 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:00 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:09 -!- sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:09 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:23:18 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZz] 02:23:52 LiamH: I'm pretty sure I got {equation} to work so that the latex export went smoothly... 02:25:02 rpg: Really, with sequential equation numbers? How do you handle the scope of Texing change, e.g., texing the whole document vs. just texing the current section? 02:25:04 nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 02:26:30 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-vzneymqxllmnbajr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:46 LiamH: The equation number thing is for the preview, not for the export, isn't it? 02:27:36 nyef: I haven't tried export, just "embedded" LaTeX (= preview?) 02:28:08 Yeah, C-c C-x C-l feels like a preview function. 02:28:23 ... org-preview-latex-fragment. 02:28:33 nyef: yup, that's it 02:29:07 But there are prefixes that let you do the whole section or document as well. Even so, every equation still comes numbered (1) in my experience. 02:29:26 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 02:29:31 I suppose no BLM next week 02:29:36 Right. But if you export the full document to LaTeX, compile to pdf, and view the result... 02:29:37 but lo and behold, BLM next month 02:29:41 Fare: Aww. 02:29:48 *nyef* was looking forward to it, too. 02:29:58 (Well, okay, haven't written a lightning talk yet, but...) 02:30:08 nyef: I can announce a "just hang out for dinner" BLM 02:30:27 Umm... 02:30:46 I'll know better tomorrow if that makes sense for me. 02:30:59 But it probably doesn't. :-/ 02:31:05 you tell me quick. Tomorrow is the last day for an announcement anyway 02:31:45 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 02:32:05 nyef: Most of my org-mode documents are non-TeX, I'm really using in plain text mode with a few equations. So preview is just what I want, though I wish it would "remember" the pngs and insert them automatically. The files are there, but it seems I have to re-tex every time. 02:32:55 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:10 I don't mind that so much (especially since a mode-hook shouldn't be hard to make work), as the inability to make arrays work. 02:34:57 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:00 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:40:08 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:40:09 LiamH: Sorry --- took my eyes off IRC while (ironically) latexing furiously. 02:40:41 I also see I didn't understand. I pretty much either export or not; I haven't been using inline previewing... 02:41:30 rpg: yeah, I wasn't thinking of the difference either. My LaTeX-in-org-mode mode is to stick a few equations in otherwise-plain-text, so it doesn't make sense to export. 02:42:36 LiamH: I get it. I do that in, e.g., email. But if you're going to keep the document as org, can't you use org labels instead of letting latex number the equations? 02:43:23 rpg: Um.... maybe? I'm not familar with org labels. (I only caught the org-mode religion 4 months ago.) 02:43:49 actually, labels, is not really accurate --- they are really hyperlinks. 02:50:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:51:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:19 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:52:19 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:10 leifw [~user@c-67-168-133-124.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 reading comp.lang.lisp on google groups == lots of spam 02:57:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:03:11 Does anyone here use l1sp.org? 03:04:27 What is your opinion on NOT emitting 'doing unsigned word to integer coercion (cost 20) to ""' in case the return value of the function was explicitly declared to be (unsigned-byte 32/64)? 03:04:56 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:12 evening 03:05:23 hi slyrus_ 03:06:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:48 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:18 -!- leifw [~user@c-67-168-133-124.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:09:13 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:11:24 tcr: That'd be nice, actually. 03:11:51 It's annoyed me a time or two that I couldn't shut that up properly on a function that was going to get inlined anyway. 03:11:59 aye 03:20:35 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:21 argh! both sbcl and ccl64 are barfing in a "Trace/BPT trap" when I try to load cl-opengl. 03:25:06 *Xach* gives up for the evening 03:25:35 That sounds like Darwin getting angry about loading a shared library that uses Core Foundation from a thread that is not the main thread. 03:26:04 *Xach* shakes fist at darwin 03:26:23 It's the World's Most Advanced Operating System! 03:26:28 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:32 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:33 <_3b`> should work on sbcl from first thread from what i understand 03:26:34 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:36 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus 03:26:58 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:31:14 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qotugjnkgawssywn] has joined #lisp 03:37:51 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:58 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:07 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:01 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:49:09 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:13 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:02 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:02 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:49 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:45 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 04:01:07 *Fare* tends to leave (NIY args) holes in his code and to fill them (sometimes with further (NIY args)) until there's no NIY left. 04:01:22 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 04:01:30 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has joined #lisp 04:05:49 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:02 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:08:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:08:41 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:55 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:14 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:09:23 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:28 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:22 nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 04:11:26 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:11:57 -!- cods [~cods@82.241.80.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:04 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:12:22 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:57 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:32 Fare: NIY? 04:16:35 oh 04:16:39 Not Implemented Yet 04:17:04 *Ralith* stubs out unimplemented stuff with a call to error 04:19:16 I came across a paper describing what looks to be a very nice ORM, UCL-GLORP 04:19:33 yet I can't find any other reference to it on the net 04:19:55 any ideas? 04:23:24 NIY *is* a defined function that calls error 04:24:03 oh. 04:24:04 okay! 04:24:10 er. 04:24:13 I mean 04:24:26 I write the actual defun for the implementation 04:24:31 rather than having a catch-all NIY function. 04:25:08 same, and the defun calls NIY 04:25:31 or I may call (NIY 'fun-name arg1 arg2) 04:25:38 heh, i like that 04:26:04 i prefer nimpl though. rolls better 04:26:04 I know how far I'm at by grep'ing NIY 04:26:14 rolls? 04:26:19 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:22 yeah. more pronouncable) 04:26:46 "not implemented yet" - great pronounciation 04:27:09 you mean "not-implemented-yet", right? 04:27:40 do you pronounce the dashes? 04:27:52 you don't? 04:27:53 :D 04:27:58 no. if you want that, it's "not-dash-implemented-dash-yet" 04:28:23 Think of the dashes as being non-breaking spaces. 04:28:45 hmm, i wonder if non-break spaces would be accepted by some implementation 04:29:00 good old option-space, right? 04:29:33 so long as they can identify them as whitespace, I imagine most would. 04:29:33 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:42 (or did you want them as not-whitespace?) 04:29:55 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:16 Miyavix3 [~profoak@c-76-29-96-30.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:38 grep NIY *p | wc ==> 8 04:31:53 -!- pnq [asdf@AC843A41.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:32:06 of course, the number of NIY says little about the size of the NIY 04:33:15 have you tried org-mode? 04:34:27 I just started learning some Scheme, and I was wondering what interpreter I should use? I'm running Linux. 04:34:45 tcr: for code? 04:35:06 Miyavix3, there was a debate on it on #scheme 04:35:48 Miyavix3: DrScheme (aka Racket?). Other than that, here we mostly talk about Common Lisp, so for more scheme ---> #scheme 04:36:00 Fare: Anything that would be in the repositories for Fedora, and RPM fusion. I'm reading SICP, and it doesn't say which to use. 04:36:06 Oh alright, I'll go there then. Thanks 04:36:36 btw, there were some notes about using CL for SICP 04:36:46 -!- Miyavix3 [~profoak@c-76-29-96-30.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:37:33 Some notes where? Out of interest. 04:38:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:38:41 franki^: I don't know where exactly, I only know that someone rewrote all the examples for CL 04:39:16 I've been doing LiSP in CL and I find that having to translate from scheme to idiomatic CL yourself helps a lot with learning the material 04:40:01 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ <--- SICP reading notes for CL 04:40:52 *Fare* finds himself writing the xcvb farmer in an impressionist way: lots of small brushstrokes 04:41:12 p_l: Thanks 04:41:49 Fare: as long as you don't fall into the pit of the so-called artistry and start calling "throwing handfuls of paint onto canvas" style "programming". Though I have to say, that style works better in programming than in painting :P 04:43:45 (some microsoft code represents a differen side - sudden bouts of mad inspiration creating functions several pages long, that probably are quite clever but might not be exactly good for long-term maintenance or clean from bugs) 04:44:32 Fare: To plan your programming steps 04:44:33 I don't trust functions that are several pages long 04:44:50 tcr: I admit I'm bad at planning 04:44:59 plus, there are too many steps, substeps, subsubsteps 04:45:13 the plan looks like the source code itself 04:45:33 except that those NIY might have a priority structure. Or not. 04:45:48 the program can't run until all the NIY are filled 04:46:15 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 04:46:53 Fare: that style sounds to me like the one employed by drewc 04:48:22 he mentioned writing the top-level function first then filling in :) 04:49:00 -!- rme [rme@clozure-36BDBB13.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:49:01 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-124-70.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:49:51 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 04:50:00 -!- zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:50:37 are there any mailing lists or newsgroups that are both active and relatively spam-free? 04:50:57 topic? 04:51:26 I'm trying to find an ORM package called ucl-glorp 04:51:33 all I can find is a paper about it 04:52:05 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:38 so I figured I'd post about it to one of the general mailing lists. 04:52:42 there doesn't seem to be one. 04:52:54 in my TODO file, I do have items that amount to writing new top-level functions 04:53:03 I checked cliki, usenet, and gmane 04:53:08 which I try not to start until I'm done with the current one. 04:53:43 inklesspen, send email to the author 04:53:51 the software might not be free, anyway 04:54:00 just like ITA's infamous ORM QUAKE 04:54:08 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:54:49 Fare: Oh? First time I've heard of that one 04:54:59 Fare: it's LLGPL licensed according to the paper 04:55:16 inklesspen, then ask the author, and create the cliki page 04:56:42 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:03 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-102-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:57:30 hahaha... how did I know that when it will come to the DB backend it will be postgres? ;D 04:58:00 (for UCL-GLORP) 04:58:56 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 though it uses OIDs instead of sequences 04:59:12 greetings 04:59:16 fusss: greetings 04:59:27 (defun octets-to-int (octets) 04:59:29 (loop for octet in octets 04:59:31 for shift from (* (1- (length octets)) 8) downto 0 by 8 04:59:32 sum (ash octet shift))) 04:59:37 anything better than this? 04:59:39 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 04:59:56 i wanna coerce a list of octets into an integer 05:00:18 p_l: what other reasonable option is there? :P 05:00:25 (other than postgres, I mean) 05:00:56 inklesspen: many, but I suspect not many of them would be SQL databases... :P 05:01:27 what relational databases exist for lisp that aren't SQL-based? 05:02:05 inklesspen: what relational databases do you know of that aren't SQL-based? 05:02:14 fusss: I don't know of any at all. 05:02:25 that's why I was asking p_l what on earth he was talking about 05:02:33 SQL and relationtioanlity are separate issues 05:02:41 yes. 05:02:41 inklesspen: I didn't say anything about "relational" :D 05:02:44 sorry, i am just butting in 05:02:52 p_l: we were talking in the context of ORMs 05:02:53 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:02:53 also, PCL has a relational database as one of the examples 05:02:57 so it's kind of implied 05:03:18 *inklesspen* shrugs 05:03:24 inklesspen: I had seen many ORMs adding support for NoSQL stores, though, thus my confusion 05:03:40 those are just OMs 05:03:46 nicktick_ [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 05:03:54 I'm thinking I'm gonna go back to Python for this webapp. 05:04:01 the libraries just aren't there yet in Lisp 05:04:05 plus I *do* know of one RDBMS that doesn't require SQL (but its available) 05:04:08 and I don't have time to write my own right now. 05:04:11 inklesspen: what are you missing? 05:04:40 minion: logs? 05:04:41 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 05:04:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:06:39 p_l: an ORM that works like SQLAlchemy's (roughly, unit-of-work basis), a library for generating Atom feeds, a html scraper on par with BeautifulSoup (closure-html is about 75% of the way there), an openid library that works (I complained about cl-openid earlier) 05:07:31 also, and this may exist, but I haven't found anyone talking about it on the web, but over in Pylons (my favored python web framework) you can basically get a REPL in your web browser within the context of the request, and play around with it. 05:07:41 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:07:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:07:58 I got something similar working by calling (break) and using the eval-in-frame function of the slime debugger, but it's far less friendly 05:08:53 I also haven't found a lisp equivalent to http://www.feedparser.org/ 05:09:18 and I know that some of those could be written in about two days with existing libraries 05:09:21 -!- nicktick_ is now known as nicktick 05:09:25 yes 05:09:25 but with Python I don't have to spend the two days 05:09:29 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:09:34 nor with lisp 05:09:47 oh? 05:10:03 i thought of cloning BeautifulSoup but it would have been a boring exercise in pleasing others 05:10:18 more fruitful improving broken-html handling in html-parse 05:10:27 Draggor1 [~Draggor@adsl-99-135-145-182.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:31 i don't care if it's a clone 05:10:38 just so long as it exposes equivalent functionality 05:11:04 so what did you mean by "nor with lisp"? 05:11:38 because so far the response I've gotten has been "why don't you pitch in and improve things" which is not unreasonable, but does entail spending those days improving the libraries 05:12:18 no you don't need to pitch in 05:12:39 do you need sample drakma code to get you started? 05:13:05 I'm not having trouble with drakma 05:13:20 that's quite nice, as is cl-who and parenscript 05:13:23 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-152-244-49.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:13:45 inklesspen: writing a eval-in-frame repl has long been on my todo. all the prerequisite are there, I haven't come around doing it. (like with lots of things) 05:13:47 draka + html-parse + cxml == web scraping toolkit 05:13:52 I could do with a bit more in depth documentation on best-practices with hunchentoot; I've found tutorials and API docs but not much in between. but that's good there too. 05:14:13 fusss: html-parse? 05:14:29 I don't see having time in future for it unless one of my collegues starts craving for that feature 05:14:48 fusss: the cliki recommended libraries page pointed me at closure-html (which docs suggested cxml-stp). as I said before, that combination gets me 75% of the way to beautiful soup's ease of use and functionality. 05:14:50 stassats: cl-html-parse 05:14:58 stassats: Hey I was looking for you the other day! 05:15:14 stassats: arglist is broken in (defmethod slot-value | 05:15:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:15:56 fusss: i see, i'm using closure-html for html parsing 05:15:59 inklesspen: this is all i could find, http://web.archive.org/web/20070720192609/http://www.gia.ist.utl.pt/~aml/ 05:16:21 stassats: i alternate, depending on brokenness 05:16:45 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:52 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:16:56 tcr: how? i don't see 05:18:25 anyone know if this utility can be improved, or if it exists in a lib somewhere? http://paste.lisp.org/display/111761 05:18:35 stassats: it only displays "(defmethod &rest more)" here 05:18:52 s/more/args/ 05:18:57 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:19:01 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 05:19:18 (defmethod name &body args) here 05:19:26 that's still not right 05:19:37 try it with slot-missing 05:19:45 why? slot-value isn't even a generic function 05:20:04 Oh? 05:20:07 clhs slot-value 05:20:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_slt_va.htm 05:20:38 slot-value-using-class is 05:20:52 Oh seems like I'm supposed to specialize on slot-missing to fake up a slot 05:21:10 Alright :-) 05:21:32 or make a new metaclass 05:22:50 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has joined #lisp 05:23:47 inklesspen: what's the difference between Alchemy and BeautifulSoup? you know? 05:24:24 fusss: one is the most impressive SQL library and ORM I've ever used. 05:24:31 the other is a HTML scraping library 05:24:49 no then, must be another Alchemy 05:25:17 http://www.sqlalchemy.org/ and http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ 05:25:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:53 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-22.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:50 *fusss* wags a finger at adobe 05:29:20 FWIW, the FLV file format has no mechanism to indicate EOF 05:29:32 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-22.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:48 no record sizes and total file size to subtract, no EOF marker, no nothing 05:29:48 clever of them 05:30:33 took me 30 minutes to write a simple "parser" 05:31:09 fusss: so you rely on EOF from the filesystem? 05:31:16 is that wrong? 05:31:25 it allows concatenation of FLVs, I suppose. 05:31:33 exactly 05:31:49 fusss: so what were you asking about? 05:32:03 i didn't ask, i stated 05:32:50 no, when you said inklesspen: what's the difference between Alchemy and BeautifulSoup? you know? 05:33:49 inklesspen: oh, yeah, there was html scraping library that people were raving about on reddit. i scanned it for a bit and saw i could clone in a weekend, but now forgot its name 05:35:14 but generally, i am starting to not care if people can't use what already exists, and always just want to look for feature X from language Y in other languages. sometimes you will have to settle for X' 05:35:25 -!- Fade [fade@coruscant.deepsky.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:37:02 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:39:01 hello lispers 05:39:37 fusss: I said I just want equivalence, not an exact clone. 05:39:51 hey kiuma 05:39:57 specifically, equivalent power. 05:41:09 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Quit: off] 05:43:08 inklesspen: paste what you have and what you're trying to do 05:43:25 that way you get answered quickly 05:43:33 I don't have it handy at the moment, sorry. 05:44:44 np 05:45:32 zbigniew [~zb@li177-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:45:32 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:17 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:09 Equivalent to X is always too vague. 05:49:50 inklesspen: msg me if you need pointers on html clean up 05:50:07 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:09 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 05:50:18 do we have any implementation of TLS in lisp 05:50:19 ? 05:50:19 we process about 2 gigs worth of html everyday 05:50:25 fair enough 05:50:25 fe[nl]ix, herep 05:50:34 Fare: pong 05:50:40 hi fe[nl]ix 05:50:45 I've been working on the DB and UI side of things most recently 05:50:46 hi kiuma 05:50:51 hence my search for a good ORM 05:50:59 what's the easy way to open a file in non-blocking mode using iolib? 05:51:15 fe[nl]ix, also, did you look at my iolib repo wrt create-process? 05:51:20 you mean open a stream ? 05:51:23 ok, nite all 05:51:27 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:51:35 inklesspen, ain't that an oxymoron, "good ORM"? 05:51:43 Fare: no. 05:51:51 fe[nl]ix, yeah, from a named pipe, in non-blocking mode. 05:51:53 fe[nl]ix, do you suggest me to wait fo iolib SSL support or should I try something by myself ? 05:52:08 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:52:11 SQLAlchemy is a great orm, for Python. I found a paper that described a similar orm for lisp, but I can't find any other reference to it 05:52:27 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:34 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 05:52:46 kiuma: cl+ssl should probably work if you're careful 05:52:58 ok 05:53:46 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:53:54 Fare: in tests/streams.lisp there's an example of file stream 05:54:17 inklesspen, don't you like CLSQL as ORM ? 05:55:09 I find its orm quite good similar to the Hibernate one. 05:55:34 also, what's this gray vs zeta stream thingie? 05:55:57 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:12 in an unspecified future, I'll finish the zeta streams and drop the gray stream implementation 05:56:18 lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:39 The problem with ORM is that R directly contradicts the encapsulation that objects imply. 05:56:39 never used hibernate, but cl-sql doesn't seem to be good enough to compare with sqlalchemy, sorry 05:57:00 why isn't make-file-stream an exported function of iolib instead of a test function in a separate file? 05:57:34 inklesspen, what do you think it misses ? 05:57:51 it looks like exactly what I need 05:58:00 the unit-of-work pattern 05:58:47 oh, no - except that the O_NONBLOCK should be part of the parameters of open, not something you fcntl afterwards -- or else, there's a deadlock about who opens the named pipe first 05:58:55 see the first two pages of http://www.jucs.org/jucs_14_20/ucl_glorp_an_orm/jucs_14_20_3333_3357_leitao.pdf for a discussion of clsql's deficiencies. 05:59:27 (of course, that document is from 2008; these things may have been fixed. but if they have been, I see no evidecne of that in the clsql docs) 06:00:47 Fare: because I'm not interested in developing the gray streams further 06:00:54 Fare: what deadlock 06:00:55 ? 06:00:56 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:01:23 nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 06:01:28 no, actually, reading fifo(7) it looks like I must open in blocking mode anyway, just make sure I do it in the right order. 06:05:28 -!- inklesspen [~jon@inklesspen.com] has left #lisp 06:09:05 ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.128.222] has joined #lisp 06:09:24 so -- did you look at my create-process ? 06:10:24 yes 06:10:40 anything I need to change before you can merge? 06:12:03 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-22.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:13:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:14:50 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 06:15:23 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:17:59 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:34 I don't intend to merge effect-redirections 06:19:12 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152164139.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:56 hmm... what does "Error: The variable SWANK-BACKEND::*SLDB-STACK-TOP* is unbound." mean? 06:20:01 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:21:35 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:27 you're trying to invoke the slime debugger not within swank-backend::call-with-debug-environment 06:24:12 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-151-61.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:24:35 no I'm not. (well, I mean, I may be invoking it that way, I'm certainly not _trying_ to) 06:25:01 *leo2007* realises "Any Emacs contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp." 06:25:44 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:26:06 slyrus: what are you doing? 06:26:32 got an error trying to run hunchentoot, trying to go to the source of the error from the backtrace 06:27:18 can zou paste the whole backtrace? 06:28:18 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28:48 no, I just fixed the problem that was causing the backtrace :) 06:28:58 I suppose I can back that out. hang on a minute or two... 06:31:07 fe[nl]ix, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong ? I've tried with trivial-sockets and it works 06:31:32 what have you tried ? 06:32:43 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:32:58 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-149.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:33:18 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 06:33:48 I've tried test-nntps-client from cl+ssl example 06:34:17 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:34:39 I know that it's not imap but I can read server reply 06:34:42 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 good morning 06:35:28 maetbag [~user@95-29-38-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:36:01 ASau [~user@77.246.231.164] has joined #lisp 06:37:09 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-107.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:19 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zixctasokxrptnfb] has joined #lisp 06:38:51 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:55 fe[nl]ix, http://paste.lisp.org/display/111762#1 06:40:11 how should I use iolibe in this case ? 06:40:16 *iolib 06:40:18 lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:49 tcr: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111763 06:46:58 kiuma: are you sure that iolib:make-socket yields a fd or a stream ? 06:47:07 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:11 that's what cl+ssl:make-ssl-client-stream wants 06:47:27 galdor: it does 06:47:39 a fd ? 06:48:12 a stream 06:48:20 oh nice 06:48:34 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 06:49:40 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:54:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152164139.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:45 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:55:27 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 06:55:36 fe[nl]ix, any idea ? 06:55:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:56:55 it also doesn't work passing (iolib:socket-os-fd (iolib:make-socket ...)) to cl+ssl:make-ssl-client-stream 06:57:52 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:58:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@178.223.43.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:00:07 kiuma: cl+ssl must be fixed to use finish-output always 07:01:33 what do you mean ? 07:01:44 can I do anything ? 07:01:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:19 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 kiuma: you can try to fix cl+ssl 07:08:00 ugh! 07:08:12 ... I can try 07:09:11 laynor` [~user@93.107.11.68] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 I just committed a change that should make it more difficult to encounter this problem 07:09:29 perhaps it works for you 07:10:09 could you pass it to me too please ? 07:10:25 so I can check it 07:10:32 I pused it 07:10:35 *pushed 07:11:17 pushed where ? 07:11:20 ctp [~user@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 gitorious 07:11:51 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:52 it's on the download page 07:12:23 -!- laynor [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:18:54 fe[nl]ix, but are you talking about iolib "STREAM-FORCE-OUTPUT now tries to flush the output buffer without blocking" ? 07:22:11 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:16 <_8david`> Can someone explain this discussion in terms that I can understand? 07:23:33 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:23:44 <_8david`> Do not pass streams to cl+ssl that aren't FD streams, because cl+ssl will only work well when it can get the file descriptor out of the stream. 07:24:40 slyrus: that seems like a bug in :fd-handler 07:24:51 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 07:25:06 oh, I forgot I was using fd-handler. thanks. 07:25:35 (and the workaround for the other bug begets new bugs...) 07:25:39 slyrus: I'm too busy at the moment for any slime hacking, but I'm sure helmut will pick it up if you post that backtrace to slime-devel 07:25:49 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:25:57 <_8david`> s/FD streams/sb-sys:fd-streams/, I mean 07:26:16 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 07:26:23 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:01 _8david`, I'm developing clonsigna an IMAP client lib 07:28:42 currently I'm trying to add ssl capabilities to it 07:29:08 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-125.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:29:11 clonsigna uses iolib for sockets 07:29:40 iolib:make-socket returns a stream 07:29:54 <_8david`> sorry, but I really don't care much what you are confused about today. 07:29:57 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 07:30:20 :P 07:31:43 <_8david`> I mostly wondering whan fe[nl]ix statement that "cl+ssl must be fixed to use finish-output always" means. 07:32:15 <_8david`> *I'm. But I'm guessing now that you're using the Lisp bio, and that's just not a good idea. Use an FD or fd-stream. 07:33:30 ok, so for imap-ssl I'll just use something like trivial-sockets , it might be acceptable 07:33:47 <_8david`> My idea was to remove the Lisp Bio, but Anton argued to keep it in for now. Users taking care what they are passing as an argument aren't affected by it. 07:33:48 at least it works :) 07:34:20 Lisp Bio ? what is it ? 07:35:09 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:35:42 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:23 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:38:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:32 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-208-190-39-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:28 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:42:53 <_8david`> It would be nice to see cl+ssl properly integrated with iolib's event loop, which should mostly be a matter of implementing {input,output}-wait. 07:44:05 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-88-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:49 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:50:49 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:28 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 07:54:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:55:03 fiveop [~fiveop@g229080075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:14 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:37 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:38 michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 08:00:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:03:41 _8david`, I've created a cl+ssl stream: when I connect to the imaps an I call (read-char (imap-socket-socket *s1*)) it always return #\* 08:04:04 *fe[nl]ix* is back 08:04:10 is seems I'm not able to 'consume' the stream 08:04:16 GrayGnome [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:49 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:04:52 _8david`: read the definition of force-output and finish-output 08:06:22 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:07:26 <_8david`> in the clhs? I've always found that distinction to be ridiculously open to interpretation. 08:08:50 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-107.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:09:36 on all implementations I know they're the same: block until the entire buffer is flushed 08:10:22 on iolib, force-output tries to flush the buffer without blocking, and finish-output blocks 08:10:27 it seems that (read-char SSL-CLIENT-STREAM) does unread under the hood,why ? 08:10:59 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:17 <_8david`> in which situation would I want part of my buffer to be flushed without knowing that all of it got written to the socket? 08:13:01 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:13:24 <_8david`> That sounds to be as good as not flushing (because when a buffer fills up, it gets sent anyway). 08:13:25 <_8david`> If I want to force things, then because I know that the _last_ byte I wrote needs to arrive at the sender before I can proceed. 08:13:33 when using streams in an event loop without implementing your own buffering strategy 08:14:17 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:30 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 08:14:52 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-233.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:14 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:34 <_8david`> Hmm. The idea of streams and an event loop in combination is not something I've considered to the extent that I'd have an idea how to make it work. 08:15:34 granted, even with this interpretation iolib's streams can't be used entirely without non-blocking, but it's better 08:16:35 It looks like handle-case can replace unwind-protect, right? 08:16:44 handler-case* 08:16:48 <_8david`> When doing ioconnections in hemlock, I specifically avoided streams and added a write buffer the connection object that will then get sent bit by it, so that my connection-write operation doesn't block. 08:16:48 grrrr: (read-char-no-hang ssl-client-stream) does not work! 08:17:24 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:27 _8david`: it's desirable to be able to use format in an event loop 08:17:38 but that's not quite easy to implement 08:19:25 <_8david`> I would argue that if force-output doesn't block, it should still send everything, and go through an intermediate buffer to achieve that. 08:20:06 what do you mean "send everything" ? 08:20:11 <_8david`> The spec doesn't require it, but users would benefit from reliable behaviour. 08:20:30 finish-output is reliably blocking 08:21:40 <_8david`> fe[nl]ix: put the entire stream buffer somewhere, set an event handler on :write, and flush that buffer bit by bit. That way the caller doesn't block until all output has been written on the socket, but he still knows that one force-output is enough to ensure that, ultimately, even the last byte written before the force-output will be written to the socket soon. 08:21:53 force-output also sets a flag that will make the next blocking operation flush the buffer 08:22:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:16 you mean using an I/O worker thread ? 08:22:23 leo2007: no, they serve different purposes 08:23:01 my guess is that that's the original intention of the author 08:23:34 that Symbolics used a background I/O thread 08:23:39 tcr: is it possible to define unwind-protect by handler-case? 08:23:40 I'm not really knowledge, but in my head I see force-output say on a socket to tell the OS to send everything to the wire without making the user process wait for any ACK 08:24:02 I don't think a different thread is required, but a flushing function can be called at write event and non-blocking can be used 08:24:07 something like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/228817 08:24:42 can someone justify this result please? http://paste.lisp.org/display/111765 08:24:48 leo2007: uwp protects for any kind of non-local exit 08:25:08 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:25:09 phadthai: I need to make this work when using an event loop and when not using one 08:25:11 morning 08:25:14 handler-case establishes a new point for a non-local exit to go to 08:25:14 can you confirm there is no XOR in common lisp ? 08:25:15 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111075.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:17 hi splittist 08:25:21 i see. Thanks, tcr. 08:25:25 clhs logxor 08:25:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_logand.htm 08:25:46 ... on nil/nonnil values ? 08:25:49 hey fe[nl]ix, exciting times! 08:25:58 yes :) 08:26:43 kuwabara: there's one in alexandria 08:28:13 tcr: thanks, I didn't know about alexandria 08:28:32 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: night] 08:30:12 anyone know what tcr.tynt.com is? 08:31:31 oh, never mind... 08:31:46 am I supposed to click on it?? 08:32:44 no... it's some copy/paste/javascript webtracking thing that I blacklisted and I had something that was talking on 127.0.0.1 in my sbcl process and lsof showed that as connections to tcr.tynt.com. 08:32:46 nvm... 08:34:16 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 08:35:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111765#1 please ! :( 08:36:24 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:38 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:41 nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 08:36:41 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229080075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:37:06 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 08:38:40 kiuma: seems like the stream's implementation for read-char-no-hang does not increment an internal pointer/idx 08:42:28 -!- fnordus [~dnall@S0106002129a44223.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:34 tcr: so a bug for cl+ssl or trivial-streams ? 08:44:12 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:48 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441012.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:15 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:48:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:25 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:43 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:50:14 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440638.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:53:22 -!- laynor` [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:53 -!- e-future is now known as Sergio` 08:54:55 metaperl[A] [~IceChat7@c-76-108-76-117.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:22 I want my lisp code to be indented by 4 spaces in Emacs lisp-mode ... how can I do this? 08:55:22 -!- metaperl[A] is now known as metaperl_ 08:56:26 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:46 don't want it 08:56:48 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:57:06 Seriously why do you want it? 08:58:04 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has joined #lisp 08:58:07 cl+ssl is buggy with read-char-no-hang :( 09:03:31 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-92.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:03:57 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:05:17 kiuma: then fix the code, I think it will make several people happy :) 09:05:51 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:46 I'm already having a look at the code :) 09:11:09 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:22 nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has joined #lisp 09:12:20 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:21 GrayGnome` [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 09:16:28 -!- GrayGnome [~MuneNoKag@user-11fa65f.dsl.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:22:38 -!- michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:24:44 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:25:22 -!- metaperl_ is now known as metaperl[A] 09:26:46 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:09 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:16 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:30:01 galdor, I think bug is related to flexy-streams since type-of cl+ssl:make-ssl-client-stream is a flexy-stream 09:30:23 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.249] has joined #lisp 09:30:51 galaxywatcher_ [~galaxywat@218.188.76.175] has joined #lisp 09:32:51 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@202.103.95.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35:25 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:32 -!- galaxywatcher_ is now known as galaxywatcher 09:38:31 kiuma: if you're going to misspell it, you should misspell it as sexy-streams. :-) 09:38:56 heheh, I've seen it :) 09:38:59 sorry 09:42:47 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 09:50:01 the sample : on http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/#flexi-io-stream is buggy :((( 09:50:54 (with-open-file (in "/foo/bar/baz.txt") ....) i used another text file and got # is not a binary input stream. 09:52:11 what a bad day :/ 09:55:13 ramus [~ramus@99.23.141.209] has joined #lisp 09:58:11 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.128.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:58:57 xan_ [~xan@snezana-fe0.wmx.mediaworksit.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:56 nicktick [~nicktick@58.20.81.194] has joined #lisp 10:04:10 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:56 -!- nicktick [~nicktick@58.20.81.194] has quit [Client Quit] 10:07:27 what's wrong with (let (arg) (case arg (1 2) (nil 1)))? 10:08:49 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:08:57 leo2007: what is the problem ? 10:09:16 why didn't it return 1 10:09:36 <_3b> ((nil) 1) maybe? 10:10:08 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 10:10:45 nil is ambiguous: it's a list containing no value against which to match 10:11:53 owow 10:12:07 a realworld case where that is a problem 10:12:08 neat 10:14:11 _3b: that works. 10:15:39 kuwabara: is there a case where empty list make sense in CASE? 10:17:32 macro uses, perhaps 10:18:49 Ralith: do you have an example? 10:21:40 a question to more experienced lispers - I want to generate code based on XML spec. Should I do it at run-time, loading spec files and running compiler over it, or is it feasible to use #. and thus drop dependency on CXML? 10:21:48 (run-time dependency) 10:21:55 leo2007: not off the top of my head; the problem inherently would manifest in complex use cases. 10:21:59 I have a better granularity of the problem with cl+ssl : is anybody interested ? 10:22:25 leo2007: imagine a macro which computed a list of zero or more comparison targets. 10:23:02 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:24:06 Ralith: ok. I guess I will just make sure whenever to compare nil or t put it in () 10:25:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:26:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 10:28:48 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:28:55 <_8david`> p_l: #. would be one option 10:29:10 <_8david`> The other would be compile-time instead of read-time, i.e. 10:29:12 <_8david`> (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (load-compile-time-dependencies) (defmacro %spec-files () (... (parse-xml-to-lisp-code)))) (defun run () (%spec-files)) 10:29:41 right 10:29:42 <_8david`> Or generate .lisp files from the specs beforehand and check those files in. That's a good solution if the specs hardly ever change. 10:31:20 <_8david`> If the spec files don't change, but your compilation strategy might, an intermediate solution could be to generate a compact binary format from the specs first. And then parse that binary file at compilation time (or even at run time, if that's efficient enough then). 10:31:38 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:33:00 <_8david`> Whenever I've done extensive something-to-lisp compilation work at compile or load time, I've ended up feeling that the resulting fasl load times and memory overhead were major disadvantages. Now I try to avoid generated lisp code and read things binary files at run time -- only if it's possible to work that way efficiently, of course. 10:33:31 leo2007: t isn't a list. 10:33:52 Ralith: no, but it confuses with otherwise. 10:34:05 what does "confuses with otherwise" mean? 10:34:13 case? 10:35:56 t also means 'otherwise in CASE 10:37:06 ah. 10:38:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:18 _8david`: you use your own format then? 10:39:19 yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 10:39:21 _8david`: I think checking in complete generated .lisp files is rather bad idea 10:39:23 lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:12 p_l: if you have to re-generate it often, it is a bad idea. 10:40:46 _8david`: i've pushed the reader hard in CMUCL and CLISP with upto 500mb files (both fasl and code files), and the only drawback i found was that it took a long time to boot? memory consumption something like n:(1-1.5)n which wasnt so bad? 10:41:04 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:42:22 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:42:56 <_8david`> I agree that the reader is pretty fast. Compilation not so much, and once CLOS is involved, things look pretty grim. 10:44:11 that matches my experience 10:44:12 <_8david`> It's not a black and white situation, but a range from "binary file on disk", "binary array in memory", "reasonably compact non-binary array in memory", "medium sized data in memory", to "insanely many CLOS methods in memory". 10:44:44 oh it's the methods causing problems? 10:44:57 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:45:15 <_8david`> oh, I'm saying with without any background information on p_l's task at hand. One case where I had this problem was parsing of IDL-like files. 10:45:36 _8david`: that's similar to my case - description files for HTTP-based APIs 10:45:53 I don't understand how you meant that binary file alternative 10:46:17 you mean to parse & interpret the data at runtime rather than a compile&load-time preprocessing stage? 10:46:33 <_8david`> I started out wanting to map IDL method names to Lisp symbols, let CLOS figure out the low-level method index for me, map IDL classes to CLOS classes, and it went downhill from there. 10:46:34 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:47:43 <_8david`> Now I'm planning to do a CommonQt-style reader macro with #_ instead, and do method lookup myself. 10:47:47 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:18 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has joined #lisp 10:49:13 I am sad that CLOS is too painful. Is it SBCL's clos particularly or all clos in general, and is a MOP solution out of scope? 10:49:23 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.141.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:49:30 incidentally, while you're here, what would it take to get some of your sbcl10 stuff merged 10:50:05 ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.149] has joined #lisp 10:51:22 mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:28 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:02 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:14 longkid [~longkid@58.186.6.62] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 hello all 10:59:53 laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9b43.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B0E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:32 <_8david`> Xof: oh, this is on Allegro's relatively speedy CLOS, which doesn't even suffer from SBCL's overly spec-conforming slow method adding. 11:07:39 <_8david`> It's more a case of "why am I running this at fasl load time when the underlying files only change on OpenOffice major releases?". 11:08:10 crap, :( http://paste.lisp.org/display/111768 same problem using iolib 11:10:38 how can I draw 3D objects like cube by using lispbuilder-sdl? 11:11:02 by adding cl-opengl to the mix, I guess 11:11:14 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 11:11:14 by using 2d projection 11:13:08 because I saw the API and I don't see any thing about 3D rendering 11:14:21 cl-opengl 11:16:04 OK, I will try it 11:19:30 now I'm using the cl+ssl version and it's even worse. the result is (nil nil nil ...) 11:19:51 ebzzry__ [~ebzzry__@124.217.71.22] has joined #lisp 11:20:46 kiuma: I think you should read the AI koan about Tom Knight and the Lisp Machine 11:21:23 tcr, why and link 11:21:24 <_8david`> I forget. Is gray stream read-char-no-hang the same thing as listen + read-char? 11:21:52 <_8david`> If so, are you running cl+ssl CVS with the listen fix? 11:22:07 _8david`, the code with (and (listen s) (read-char s)) produces the same result 11:22:20 _8david`, yes 11:22:21 <_8david`> Also, if your complaint is that iolib doesn't return NIL, why are you complaining that cl+ssl does return NIL? 11:22:30 got 1 minute ago 11:22:55 <_8david`> Either data is quickly available on the stream or not. If so, you'll get it. If not, you should get NIL. Your paste lacks context and timing information. 11:22:58 Is there an implementation of SBCL for Maemo (N900) 11:22:58 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:02 -!- abqar_ [~abqar_@122x220x64x254.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:29:06 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:42 ebzzry__: no 11:31:07 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:22 _8david`, ok it seems to work now. I do further checking 11:33:17 -!- Sergio` [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:33:52 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:04 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 11:34:52 Sergio` [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 11:38:23 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:34 tcr1 [~tcr@118.101.4.189] has joined #lisp 11:40:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.4.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48:21 _8david`, great job! 11:50:26 kiuma: OK 11:50:55 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.6.62] has left #lisp 11:52:44 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:53:09 -!- ebzzry__ [~ebzzry__@124.217.71.22] has quit [] 11:57:21 WOW!! cl+ssl works also in conjuntion with TRATTLS command :) 11:57:34 *STARTTLS 11:57:41 (for imap) 11:58:04 clonsigna features are nearly complete :)))) 11:58:18 I'm so happy that I can take a coffee now 11:59:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 12:04:05 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:56 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:14:03 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:29 ephcon [~ephcon@ppp-71-139-21-203.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:39 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:29:17 -!- yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:30:58 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 12:36:15 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:36:18 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [K-Lined] 12:37:25 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:04 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qotugjnkgawssywn] has left #lisp 12:43:41 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.213] has joined #lisp 12:47:39 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:52:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:56:53 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:57 how can I use format with utf-8 I need to pass to base64:string-to-base64-string the string --- username+null-utf-8( U+0000 )+password 12:58:28 in the sense username and password joined by U+0000 13:00:06 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:00:14 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:30 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:03 kiuma: (format nil "~A~C~A" username (code-char 0) passwd) ? 13:04:30 you can also replace (code-char 0) by #\Nul 13:06:14 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.70] has joined #lisp 13:07:58 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:51 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:16:06 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-155-215-188.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:44 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:18:38 *Xach* needs a format recipe for writing out a list of words, indented two spaces and word-wrapped at column 60 13:18:56 *Xach* eyes Xof 13:19:13 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:19:45 uhoh 13:22:50 (let ((*print-right-margin* 60)) (format nil " ~@<~{~A~^ ~}~@:>" list)) ; try that 13:23:56 aw [~aw@p54B6BA5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:16 Looks wonderful, thanks. 13:24:57 oops. does not work on clisp. doesn't seem to care about *print-right-margin*? 13:25:10 *Xach* might just roll his own in that case 13:25:37 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 13:25:51 might need an explicit *print-pretty* t 13:26:41 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:48 -!- mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:26 is Erik Enge any of you ? 13:30:39 ``Erik, maybe ? 13:30:39 Doesn't seem to have an effect. 13:31:56 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:57 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:32:00 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:06 Now the only think that seems to miss from clonsigna is message composition (rfc2822) to add to the APPEND command 13:34:25 s/think/thing/ 13:34:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:45 ... and all docstrings :) 13:39:37 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:40:13 Xach: (let ((words (make-list 20 :initial-element "word")) (*print-right-margin* 60) (*print-pretty* t) (*print-escape* nil)) (pprint-logical-block (nil words :per-line-prefix " ") (pprint-fill *standard-output* words nil))) 13:40:51 stassats: thanks 13:40:56 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:41:00 and i guess you don't need (*print-pretty* t) 13:41:44 no, you do need it, at least on Clisp 13:42:31 ejs [~eugen@203-104-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:29 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:45:47 PuffTheMagic_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:46:29 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:47:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:44 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:58 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 13:48:26 -!- Draggor1 is now known as Draggor 13:49:23 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:50:35 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.36] has joined #lisp 13:55:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:55:16 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 13:56:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:18 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:00:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:04:14 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:47 *Xach* took more than a couple minutes to find the error here: (format t "To reload the system, load ~/foo/bar.lisp from your init file.") 14:05:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:14 tee hee! 14:06:22 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.34] has joined #lisp 14:06:33 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:06:49 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:50 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 14:07:46 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:09:42 Xach: would be more fun if you had function named FOO with four arguments and something like (format t "load ~/foo/bar.lisp from your init file. ~@{~a~}" 1 2 3) 14:10:34 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12:04 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:12:22 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:50 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 14:13:48 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:15:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@snezana-fe0.wmx.mediaworksit.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:38 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:16:01 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:16:42 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 14:17:40 I your opinion should I add first an Howto or docstrings ? 14:18:02 to http://www.wingstech.it/git?p=clonsigna.git;a=tree 14:18:08 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:19:35 kiuma: in starts-with function, STRING-EQUAL accepts bounding indexes 14:19:48 lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 stassats, is there a ready to use lisp function (not using cl-ppcre) ? 14:21:30 so it'd be (string-equal start str :end2 (length start)) 14:21:36 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:37 kiuma: string-equal is ready to use 14:21:43 :) 14:21:52 keep in mind that string-equal is case-insensitive 14:22:06 and the same goes to ends-with 14:22:07 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:22:14 yes it's good for clonsigna 14:22:25 I apply corrections now 14:23:36 and don't forget that you still need (>= (length str) (length start)) check 14:24:19 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zixctasokxrptnfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:24:25 caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:27:09 and the same also goes to split-sequence, (split-sequence:split-sequence #\? (subseq string 2 (- (length string) 2))) => (split-sequence:split-sequence #\? string :start 2 :end (- (length string) 2)) 14:28:08 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 14:28:20 -!- vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:38 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 14:30:47 Anyone feel like trying a slightly more polished quicklisp iteration? 14:31:07 *Xach* heads over to #quicklisp 14:31:36 what is quicklisp, exactly? 14:31:38 Xach: where to get it ? :-) 14:31:49 lisp on steroids 14:32:03 rsynnott: It's a way to get a library environment set up quickly. 14:32:12 Small question from a noob: I'm trying to learn about CFFI, and I find that with CCL, asdf-install grabs alexandria, babel, and trivial-features as well. With SBCL, on the other hand, it snarfs down a whole lot more drek, one package of which bombs out on compile (lift/utilities.lisp). Why are SBCL's dependencies so much larger than CCL's? 14:32:13 A little like clbuild in that respect. 14:32:20 ah 14:32:23 cool 14:32:39 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:54 caoliver: first suggestion: don't use asdf-install 14:32:59 *rsynnott* hasn't been keeping track lately 14:33:01 caoliver: asdf-install tries to load every .asd in every project it downloads 14:33:08 use either clbuild or wait for Xach's quicklisp 14:33:29 I don't want to build haskell ro build clbuild to build cffi. No interest in haskell. 14:33:32 stassats, thanks patches committed 14:33:34 You can try quicklisp now if you like, but it's only a demo, and will probably change a bit before it's done. 14:33:42 quicklisp doesn't use haskell. 14:33:51 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 14:34:05 is that an advertising slogan? 14:34:32 People have been complaining about how little software there is out there, now they complain it's too much :-) 14:34:59 No. Some don't want dependency bloat. 14:35:16 Mind the smiley 14:35:24 Itg's too much like the all-or-nothing linus desktops. 14:35:24 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 14:35:33 s/linus/of linux/ 14:35:35 in many distributions you can get darcs for free 14:36:16 me mostly runs very stripped down Slackware with just the languages I'm personally interested in. 14:36:41 caoliver: asdf-install isn't very precise in that regard. 14:36:45 I guess there's something masochistic about that 14:37:01 caoliver: although after you run into the problems with lift, re-running asdf-install (or just loading things) might work. 14:37:11 Xach: it seems to do a very crude transitive closure on the dependency graph. 14:37:30 there are a lot of crude things in asdf-install. 14:37:40 I mean if it just worked (which, mind you, it does not with asdf-install), and you're on a decent connection, it's maybe causing irrational grief 14:38:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:05 the main problem is trying to load everything named .asd, including test systems and demos. 14:38:14 or rather, the main problem you're seeing. 14:38:14 it would be easier to skip the whole source-mess alltogether and just have a system for distributing fasls and/or cores. that way at least newbies wouldnt have any issues getting stuff to work. 14:38:38 The problem with lift seems to be that it uses a package mop which may be in the author's lisp, but not in SBCL. (The MOP methods he invokes are though.) 14:39:01 hypno: i can't live without sources in the lisp-world 14:39:19 but i'm not a newbie, what do i know 14:39:23 Agree. My meta-. would be unhappy. 14:39:43 Stupid bug-ridden, bloated Lisp software world 14:40:03 that's why i need sources, to fix it! 14:40:05 stassats: well, of course true depending on what package we are talking about, but most popular stuff at the moment have rather good documentation, dont you think? 14:40:08 devon [~devon@scooby-doo.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:40:16 hypno: fasls generally break on point-release, though, no? 14:40:29 Also, having source is extremely useful for debugging, in my experience 14:40:45 i don't have a thing against sources though. as long as it *behaves* in an opaque way 14:40:46 rsynnott: I wonder if that's for commercial impls, too? 14:40:46 hypno: but still isn't bug free, or is it? 14:41:02 if that's the case 14:41:15 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:23 caoliver: looks like this has come up before; solution here - http://paste.lisp.org/display/98816 14:41:27 tcr: no idea. 14:41:28 stassats: you always get bugs for free :) 14:41:35 rsynnott: i wouldnt say that fasls should exclude source. i do think it is an order of magnitude better /default/ at least. 14:41:47 I'd guess it isn't, though; commercial users are likely to care more about binary compatibility 14:42:22 hypno: the repository maintainer would presumably have to build the library with each point version of sbcl, for each architecture, threaded and unthreaded, though 14:42:25 rsynnott: I found several of those, but no workaround. 14:42:34 They may break it on major releases. Patches are usually transfered as fasls, I thinks. 14:42:52 caoliver: the last annotation _claims_ to be a solution 14:42:59 not sure if it actually is 14:43:08 i think they have other application delivery mechanisms for end users 14:43:38 Does asdf-install use the local lisp files if they exist, or does it regrab things? 14:43:44 caoliver: local if they exist. 14:43:58 caoliver: it's basically a hook around asdf's missing-component condition. 14:44:07 if the components are found, no grabbing is involved. 14:44:15 OK. I can patch lift then. 14:44:25 rsynnott: well, agreed, but i dont think such a scheme would cater to people that lives for the bleeding edge anwyay. it 14:44:30 someone should probably alert gary w. king. 14:44:40 rsynnott: its about a solid base, not the newest and fanciest. 14:44:43 Lift's author? 14:44:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:56 caoliver: that's him. http://github.com/gwkkwg/lift has the source. 14:45:29 hypno: what lisp-implementation-version are you running? 14:45:47 caoliver: i mostly use CCL right now. 14:46:00 I can imagine it could work for CCL, which has a more sedate release schedule and (I believe) doesn't have the threaded/no-threaded incompatibility 14:46:09 hypno: do you want to try quicklisp? 14:46:33 Xach: well, why not. :) does it work with ccl14? 14:46:35 xach: what is that? A Lisp-in-a-box replacement? 14:46:45 iit seems that cl-smtp doesn't support related messages :/ 14:46:55 hypno: I haven't tried it, I think it probably will. 14:47:00 Xach: what does it do differently to clbuild? 14:47:05 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:45 rsynnott: runs on non-Unix with no VCS programs involved. ignores the lisp/slime building bits. 14:48:13 Xach: url? 14:48:22 and alternative mettages too (with type and subtype) 14:48:34 ah, nice 14:48:46 Xach: where is quicklisp? 14:48:59 finally, perhaps a non-infuriating way to install libraries on Windows :) 14:49:13 caoliver: not really like lisp-in-a-box. 14:49:29 well, i think of lisp-in-a-box as a full pre-baked environment. this bit only does the library part. 14:49:29 Windows will just infuriate you some other way. 14:50:11 i think it'd be neat to see a quicklisp-in-a-box, but i'm not going to work on that just yet. 14:50:11 Xach: where is quicklisp's home? 14:50:16 quicklisp has no home. 14:50:37 when it does, it'll be at quicklisp.org 14:50:53 it's more of a demo right now than a real thing. 14:51:15 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111075.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:01 I said a bulshit about alternative support of cl-smtp 14:52:31 KHUY [~sss@ppp85-140-233-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 At the moment, what I'm trying to think about is some sort of Smalltalk bitblt style window using SDL, and that drew me to CFFI, which drew me into the library install morass. 14:54:24 with quicklisp, (ql:load-system "lispbuilder-sdl") will download everything you need for lispbuilder-sdl. 14:54:31 if it's already installed, it'll load it. 14:54:45 Does anyone know anything about the Cocotron project Clozure is apparently doing, actually? 14:54:51 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:52 Ok. Sold. How can I get the demo-ware? 14:55:08 caoliver: I sent you a /msg with a link 14:55:28 They've submitted a lot of patches and questions to Cocotron (port of Cocoa for Windows) over the last few months, mentioning that it's a CCL application 14:55:30 Thanks. 14:55:33 Xach: it uses Drakma for downloading? 14:55:38 caoliver: of course, there's no guarantee that all the libraries are tested & work on your choice of platform & implementation, i'm afraid. 14:55:50 caoliver: but it does try to make it easy to at least get them. 14:55:55 That's to be expected at this stage of the game. 14:55:56 rsynnott: using it for their IDE on windows? 14:56:02 p_l: no, rolls its own. 14:56:40 stassats: nope; messages indicate it's something they're doing for a client's pre-existing application 14:56:54 (from which I assume it's a pre-existing CCL/Cocoa app on Windows) 14:56:59 *MacOs 14:57:19 just curious, really, if anyone had heard about it; the idea of doing cross-platform interfaces that way is interesting 14:57:43 cocotron also works on Linux, it seems 14:58:01 #ccl may know better 14:58:12 or wait till rme comes in 14:58:20 Xach: seems like I'll have to write my own "executable" variant after all... Drakma is way too useful to rewrite it again 14:58:33 rsynnott: on Linux it only supports Foundation 14:59:14 oh, that's not as useful then 14:59:16 rsynnott: Part of the reason for my line of thought is that 'bolics OG seems destined to fall down some oubliet, so having some generic window on which to build something seems a way to resurect at least some of the ideas. I'm not sure I like McCLIM's closeness to X11. 14:59:23 though GNUStep might be an option 14:59:57 rsynnott: GNUstep works, but can be sometimes a PITA if your WM is not "as usual" 15:00:03 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:10 caoliver: mcclim isn't close to X11 15:00:41 stassats: but the only backends that tend to work are CLX and beagle, was it? :) 15:00:48 I just want to ignore the WM and native widgets altogether, unpopular though that idea may be. 15:01:09 stassats: Isn't there some CLX dependency? 15:01:18 caoliver: CLX is just one of possible backends 15:01:21 p_l: gtkairo 15:01:38 http://i.imgur.com/4BR69.jpg 15:01:51 frankly, neither CLX nor gtkairo fully work 15:01:55 caoliver: check out lift-devel mailing list, there is a patch fixing mop: error 15:01:58 caoliver: there was some work towards framebuffer backend, which could be then easily ported to any framebuffer-style display (that includes *all* display systems) 15:02:23 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has joined #lisp 15:02:25 p_l: that's more where I was thinking. 15:02:38 -!- jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:39 p_l: drakma is great, but was a little too big to bootstrap from. 15:03:14 Xach: I know, but I doubt "rolling your own" would support HTTPS proxy :) 15:03:22 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:03:26 p_l: nope. 15:03:35 *Xach* needs to think about proxies 15:03:45 http://i.imgur.com/YRfC7.jpg 15:04:03 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:04:08 stassats: I'm more thinking about something Morphic like upon which something along the lines of Dynamic Windows could be build with not so much effort. 15:04:23 KHUY: knock it off. 15:04:30 *p_l* unfortunately has to deal with world where you either support HTTP(S) proxy, SOCKS5 or don't crash when someone replaces BSD sockets functions with ones that go through proxy 15:04:35 Xach: tricky to do if you want to roll your own 15:04:36 caoliver: i'm not familiar with DW 15:04:50 http://i.imgur.com/BwjB4.jpg 15:04:54 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.164] has quit [Quit: off] 15:04:55 stassats: Symbolics precursor of CLIM. 15:05:05 KHUY: go away. 15:05:08 caoliver: well, i know what it its, but nothing more 15:05:12 s/its/is/ 15:05:27 Xach: no you go away and fucking die!!! 15:05:33 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 15:05:35 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:05:42 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*sss@*.pppoe.mtu-net.ru 15:05:53 -!- KHUY [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (KHUY) 15:05:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:00 Thanks 15:06:03 guy didn't even have an imaginative nick... 15:06:04 Xach: you could use curl through a shell on unix-y things, and just not support proxies on Windows easily enough, I suppose 15:06:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:40 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:06:55 not supporting windows is always the easiest way 15:07:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:07:49 stassats: but not necessarily the best 15:08:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:11:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:58 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:25 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.149.87] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 caoliver: fwiw, i just did a ql load of lispbuilder-sdl and the demo snippet on http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/LispbuilderSDL popped up a window right away (only had to change the path to the image). i'm using sbcl on linux. 15:12:45 p_l: Agree. My vague dream is something like Squeak, where I can walk up to any of the majority platforms with a thumbdrive and have a productive Lisp dev environment on the screen. 15:13:33 you can put linux on your thumbdrive 15:13:36 caoliver: funnily enough, Meroko kinda was written like that 15:14:00 stassats: No. Just the smalltalk vm and image. 15:14:18 Well... VMs for mac, windows, and linux. 15:14:34 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:55 web? 15:15:56 stassats: what are you suggesting? Use ajax to present an IDE via the browser? 15:16:11 Emacs-in-Flash ? :-) 15:16:13 well, yes 15:16:27 (Adobe AIR looks quite nifty for that) 15:16:46 p_l if you want to buy into Adobe that is. 15:17:01 stassats / caoliver / p_l: http://www.ymacs.org/ 15:17:11 I've seen that. 15:17:33 p_l: a HTML/websockets impl would be better, ideally :) 15:17:54 (Adobe AIR isn't just a case of one-click install on 64bit linux, in particular) 15:17:56 I'm not a JS person. I've no idea how painful or heavy that would be. 15:18:12 caoliver: another alternative is to make a small executable with WebKit (QT4.5+ has nice features for that) and run the "ide" in that - so no fiddling with various differences between extensions on someones browsers etc. 15:18:25 anything ever come of that Google person's add-JS-to-emacs project, I wonder 15:18:39 also, you could run it on an iPad :D 15:18:49 Evil! 15:19:33 I have to wash up and do some darkroom chores. Thanks for all the fish^H^H^H^Hhelp. 15:19:36 pnq [asdf@AC81B37F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:45 -!- caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 15:21:02 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:22:49 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:23:20 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:23:55 *rsynnott* wonders would Apple's recent compromise on interpreters be sufficient to allow porting of GNU Emacs to iPad 15:24:34 how would emacs fare without a keyboard? 15:24:44 I want to extend cl-smtp to support related parts: any objections ? 15:26:15 stassats: you can use an external keyboard with an ipad 15:26:50 i can use a notebook to begin with 15:27:17 ps : should I add this feature to cl-smtp or to clonsigna ? 15:28:31 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 15:29:09 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202717.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:19 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:40 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 15:36:41 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:37:02 ooh, finally restarting hemlock works 15:38:26 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440638.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 15:38:53 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:08 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.129.166] has joined #lisp 15:41:07 brown [~user@nat/google/x-inlamihhbzyjtosj] has joined #lisp 15:41:35 -!- brown is now known as Guest68264 15:41:51 but doesn't handle multibyte characters 15:42:25 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:38 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.162] has joined #lisp 15:43:09 -!- copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has quit [] 15:44:16 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:25 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 15:45:14 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:02 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-165-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:47:31 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:18 -!- pnq [asdf@AC81B37F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.129.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:08 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.129.166] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 sellout: Ok, I admit, ymacs works quite nicely... I'm not used to JS apps being that responsive at my typical load 15:52:26 *p_l* is a kind of person that needs to compile his own firefox so it wouldn't crash every hour due to memory exhaustion 15:53:46 regarding my suggestion of shipping a small "browser" to run the JS GUI, I was thinking of QT4.6 WebView (with various QT classes exposed to JS code - it's easy way for OS integration) and Cappuccino 15:55:31 *Lycurgus* wonders under what circumstances FF is crashing every hour due to memory exhaustion 15:57:45 Lycurgus: >150 tabs, some of them heavy with JS, images and/or flash. 15:57:52 i c 15:58:06 i wouldn't brag about it! 15:58:39 Actually, when I switched to my own optimized builds, it was reaching 1.5G resident set at somewhere near 60 tabs 15:58:49 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:59:02 and leaking memory sieve 15:59:06 *like sieve 15:59:16 and what did you change? I know some people who would like to know (: 15:59:51 right now I've got 135 tabs with different kinds of stuff loaded and 826MB RSS 16:00:12 I meant to ask, how does your build differ from the build you used before? 16:00:55 bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:20 antifuchs: PGO self-contained build (no external libxul, no xul-runner etc.), FF 3.7a4 64bit, flash running as external process so I can easily kill it 16:01:33 various miscallaneous stuff removed 16:01:34 benny` [~user@i577A120A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 all of the funny experimental tracemonkey stuff enabled 16:02:18 I think I haven't ran a stable FF on my laptop since 3.1 16:02:18 -!- benny [~user@i577A8703.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:24 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:32 (3.1b3 was when I switched to building my own) 16:02:58 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:09 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.171.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:51 (I also have a bunch of extensions and reindex the sqlite stores periodically - makes for more bearable FF) 16:07:34 maden [~maden@dsl-153-207.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 16:08:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:39 Thin clients sure get thick pretty quickly... 16:08:47 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:47 -!- ctp [~user@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:03 *schmrkc* hands p_l some chrome. 16:09:45 schmrkc: I have it, and it fails horribly. It's delegated to run some rarely running flash stuff :D 16:10:08 Really. Just out of curiosity.. how does it fail? 16:10:22 *schmrkc* can't really stand ff after the crome experience. 16:10:29 I only use it for the firebug now. 16:10:34 schmrkc: doesn't support SOCKS5 and its network code simply doesn't work with libtsocks 16:10:35 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:10:48 also doesn't have various extensions I consider elementary 16:11:04 p_l: I see.. I'll google SOCKS5 and see if I understand it :) 16:11:15 p_l: I only really use adblock and firebug :) 16:14:35 schmrkc: Vimperator, NoScript, TreeStyleTabs, Zotero, Firebug, YSlow, Rikaichan, Web Developer, FoxyProxy... that's around *minimum* I need, Html Validation is also nice. 16:15:10 ah, and SourceViewerTab. Those are the minimum I need, I have more enabled :) 16:15:55 yikes. 16:16:16 if it wasn't so unbearably slow to startup and crashed so often I'd maybe use it again :) 16:16:18 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:31 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:16:41 fiveop [~fiveop@g229080075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:18 oh, and Chrome exhibits memory usage patterns that worry me :D 16:17:27 p_l: Zotero looks interesting. I wish I had it when I was writing papers. 16:17:29 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 you mean how it uses less memory than ff? :P 16:17:38 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:44 (i.e. it gets into significant fraction of Firefox's memory usage with barely few tabs) 16:18:09 while Firefox on startup opens ~100 tabs 16:18:19 weird. I have the opposite experience. 16:18:30 not that I'd ever open 100 tabs ;) 16:18:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.4.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:18:55 this zotero plugin looks so hot I should get back to school. 16:19:03 schmrkc: well, my ff uses less memory per tab, it seems, than normal... but I haven't really compared with later stable versions. 16:19:16 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:19:22 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:40 interesting. 16:21:26 Well, PGO isn't enabled on official builds at all, so it might be related to that 16:21:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:21:34 What be PGO ? 16:22:28 oh gosh. I find the webdeveloper plugin. click that site. find a link to firefox, flock, and seamonkey.. wth is flock? I click it. And I feel sick :( 16:22:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:22:39 Profile-Guided-Optimization 16:22:49 p_l: I'm gonna try this webdeveloper plugin some . thanks. 16:23:03 pnq [asdf@AC81D329.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:30 basically, the build script builds a profiled executable, runs a barrage of tests, then uses data from profiling to optimize final build 16:23:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-220-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:44 cools. 16:23:48 Word. 16:23:48 gigamonkey, memo from froydnj: you need to kick your webserver; rss feed has been timing out for a week or two 16:23:59 yo gigamonkey 16:24:02 Yo. 16:24:03 -!- maetbag [~user@95-29-38-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:10 *gigamonkey* is Daddy x 2 16:24:13 congrats! 16:24:20 gigamonkey: congrats! 16:24:48 p_l: I'd ask clyde to build me a firefox. But it seems my latest arch upgrade broke mostly everything :) 16:24:55 Tabitha  Seibel, 7lbs. 9oz. Born 12:02 June 17th. 16:25:17 schmrkc: just remember that for PGO build you need to build it on the same machine as you are going to run it :) 16:25:22 gigamonkey: How do you pronounce ? 16:25:26 tcr [~tcr@124.13.126.80] has joined #lisp 16:25:47 Pronounced Ching-Yi. Spelled "Qingyi" 16:25:47 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:26:09 p_l: here is something that might shock ya.. I only really have one machine ;) 16:26:09 qngyí (qing1yi2) in pinyin 16:26:24 gigamonkey: What an interesting name. Are you a martial artist? 16:26:27 hmmm... haven't got a good chinese dictionary, could you elaborate on meanings? 16:27:07 *p_l* found the way Far-East names are much closer to "meaning" of the name to be fascinating 16:27:13 schmrkc: well, it has more to do with my wife being (American born) Taiwanese 16:27:17 But I do practice Tai Chi. 16:28:02 zhongwen.com 16:28:02 gigamonkey: Oh ok. I don't know crap about chinese tbh, but I've seen Xing-Yi (the martial arts that whoops tai chi chuans butt anyday!) spelled qing-yi too. 16:29:04 gigamonkey: want to try a demo of my new toy? 16:29:10 Xach, sure. 16:29:43 I presume that's the blue/green qing? 16:30:23 Although I guess "dragonfly rump" would be cute. 16:30:53 p_l: many if not most Western names also have a meaning, it's just that the language is often very old 16:30:54 Zhivago: I'm not actually sure. My inlaws picked the name. I'm trying to find the email with the meanings. 16:31:09 You don't have it written down? 16:31:26 "Happy, joyful, cheerful." 16:31:49 rsynnott: I know, it's just that they kind of "disappeared" from perception (I tend to research the meaning when I'm naming something, though) 16:32:28 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:32:53 (like when naming servers :D) 16:33:32 p_l: I am trying to find in firefox how I change what search engine it uses.. any ideas? 16:33:34 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:33:34 schmrkc: it seems to me all martial arts end up at more or less the same place, at a high enough level. 16:33:51 gigamonkey: Indeed :) 16:34:17 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.185.48] has joined #lisp 16:34:49 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:35:03 p_l: n/m. I found a plugin to fix it :) 16:35:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:25 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755026.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:34 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:46 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:39:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:06 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:41:14 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:13 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:53 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has 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[~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:26 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-228-122.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:51 drewc!! 17:28:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:29:04 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-46-183.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:29:08 Xach: hey hey, what's new? 17:29:09 *Xach* wonders how far drewc's lisp productivity falls during the world cup 17:29:19 drewc: new demo of quicklisp, want to try it? 17:29:40 heh, the bare minimum lisp i need to survive, essentially :) 17:29:46 for sure, i'd love to 17:29:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:58 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:30:48 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 17:30:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:31:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:32:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:33:16 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:34:40 abugosh [~Adium@m325a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m325a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:35:31 hi there, i'm playing with cl-pdf (current) and i'm trying to get the example1 running, but i get an error while writing the pdf 17:35:38 # is not a binary output stream. 17:35:54 what the heck is going on there? 17:35:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:58 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:36:46 stettberger: cl-pdf expects to be able to use write-byte and write-char on the same stream, but that doesn't work on all implementations. 17:36:56 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:58 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:37:03 stettberger: i think the workaround might be to disable compression 17:37:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:38:30 -!- HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:40 stettberger: try with pdf:*compress-streams* set to nil 17:38:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 thank you very much, this worked it out 17:39:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:40:50 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:41:02 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:58 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the 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closed the connection] 17:52:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:53:02 PissedNumlock: cl-cli-parser also 17:53:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:54:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:58 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:55:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:56:28 ty Xach :p 17:56:38 but the command-line-parser worked just fine 17:56:42 Ah, good. 17:56:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:57:18 HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 gonna publish my compiler on /r/lisp once I have a bit more free time 17:58:32 entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has joined #lisp 17:58:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:00:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:00:40 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 18:08:45 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-tmwvbktjxuhppzfh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:14:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:46 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:05 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:49 -!- jasonx_ 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[~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:04 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:30 -!- TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:54 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:47 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:07:30 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:31 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:10:58 -!- pnq [asdf@AC81D329.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:03 *Xach* can hardly get anything he thinks of to load with ecl :( 19:12:49 "Wrong number of arguments passed to function #." pops up pretty frequently. i wonder if i'm a version or ten behind. 19:14:09 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:24:23 What version are you using? 19:24:54 10.4.2 19:25:32 Wow, development is active. 19:25:36 *Xach* pulls git and rebuilds 19:25:42 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:54 10.4.1 works for me. But I pretty much only build maxima with ecl. 19:28:52 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:13 Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.62] has joined #lisp 19:29:47 ejs [~eugen@203-104-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:24 *Xach* hopes to set up automated reports about what software fails on what implementations 19:31:22 That sounds like a ton of work. 19:31:37 quicklisp does 77% of the hard part already! 19:32:56 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-104-113-96.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:30 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:34:46 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:34:48 lispm [~lispm@g224123175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:40 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224123175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:18 Xach: That's funny. I was thinking quicklisp did 31% of the work. The rest being figuring out how and what to run to tell if the software works or not. :-) 19:36:41 rtoym: oh, i'm thinking of the simplest tests first: does it compile? does it load? 19:37:16 Oh, then quicklisp seems like it does 99 and 44/100% of that. 19:38:11 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:38:12 minion: memo for Fare: Is there a good reason for cmucl to update to the latest asdf2? 19:38:12 Remembered. I'll tell Fare when he/she/it next speaks. 19:40:24 argh, git head of ecl fails even earlier with an inscrutable backtrace. 19:40:28 *Xach* gives up on ecl for now. 19:40:54 Anything new in quicklisp that you want me to test out with cmucl? 19:41:41 rtoym: nothing in particular at the moment. i have a new demo that remembers how to load things it installs from session to session. 19:42:04 Ok. If you want a tester just holler. 19:42:08 thanks 19:43:14 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-24-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:43:35 I don't think the head version of ECL is intended for use by normal people, it's in the middle of some disruptive compiler changes 19:43:51 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:06 ah 19:45:01 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-1-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:45:07 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:49:09 rme_ [~rme@pool-68-238-2-81.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:03 -!- rme [rme@clozure-64A70588.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 19:50:04 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:50:42 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-113-96.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:50:43 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:50:56 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:51:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-220-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:34 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:12 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:12 hadronzoo-mobile [~hadronzoo@adsl-208-190-39-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:18 -!- hadronzoo-mobile [~hadronzoo@adsl-208-190-39-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:17 rtoym: does anyone really use cmucl with gc-verbose enabled? 19:56:46 peddie_ [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:49 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:51 -!- ejs [~eugen@203-104-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:56:57 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:36 You mean *gc-verbose*? I do, since it's the default. But sometimes I turn it off. But I also customize it so that GC messages print out how much time it took to run (real and run time). 19:58:46 ok 19:58:59 Why? 19:59:47 It's more info than I'm used to. 20:00:21 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.185.48] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:00:49 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:25 I don't notice it too much because slime takes over and displays a much briefer message in my typeout frame. 20:01:52 oh, i removed my use of *d-p-d*, too, so no need for workarounds any more. 20:01:56 Actually, it contains even more information because it prints out how full each generation is. 20:02:36 Why did you remove *d-p-d*? Not needed? Used some other method? In any case, the fixes will be in the snapshot. 20:03:07 rtoym: I wound up doing some rewriting, and the restructuring didn't make that solution as attractive as before 20:03:20 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:34 *Xach* finds himself wishing implementations supported a de facto ~/ pathname syntax 20:06:42 it's funny how that that seems to come up so often 20:06:58 When no other language supports ~ in paths by default, except shell. 20:07:04 *rtoym* likes cmucl's home: search-list. 20:07:27 Xach: quicklisp no longer compiles. 20:07:46 E.g. in Python, there is os.path.expanduser(path), but you have to explicitly call that if you want to transform ~user/foo into /user's homedir/foo 20:07:58 I guess it's because pathnames in lisp are already so magical, why not add one more piece of magic. :) 20:10:33 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:15 But binding *d-p-d* to (user-homedir-pathname) covers a lot of the uses of ~/, doesn't it? 20:11:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:05 maybe it doesn't come up in other languages because they aren't used interactively so often 20:15:41 hefner: could be it. 20:19:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:19:21 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-210.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:20:06 fundamental [~fundament@0-13-e8-3c-ab-1d.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:21:06 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: being productive...] 20:21:40 micahjohnston [~Adium@174-23-77-18.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:21 -!- micahjohnston [~Adium@174-23-77-18.slkc.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:22:47 foom: elisp supports that, too (: 20:22:59 inklesspen|work [~jon@inklesspen.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:16 I was looking at the hyperspec for allocate-instance, and there's something I don't understand. 20:23:32 allocate-instance explicitly doesn't initialize the instance, right? so why does it take initargs? 20:24:12 my guess is so that you can give hints to allocate-instance from instance creation 20:24:21 -!- abstract is now known as derekv 20:24:23 like :allocate-some-other-slot-as-well t 20:24:25 Oh, maybe quicklisp is just meant to be loaded, not compiled and loaded. 20:24:30 (which may or may not be a good idea) 20:24:35 -!- derekv is now known as derek 20:24:40 -!- derek is now known as derekv 20:24:56 antifuchs: how would that do anything, though? 20:25:38 allocate-instance is a generic function, so its methods can decide how to handle those initargs 20:25:53 oh 20:25:59 okay 20:26:21 the :allocate-some-other-slot example is a bit contrived... 20:27:21 but I suppose a persistence layer like allegrocache or elephant could take hints about these instances 20:27:33 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 20:30:06 I see. 20:31:49 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:04 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:15 Lisp has ruined me for Python, so I guess I have no choice but to write an ORM. 20:34:30 heh 20:38:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:56 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:40 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:01 *p_l|backup* gently points inklesspen|work towards mopintro.ps 20:43:05 rtoym: no? hmm. i'll test more tonight. 20:45:05 Xach: Doesn't compile, but loads ok. And seems to work too. 20:45:30 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 p_l|backup: I don't think I want to take the metaclass approach. 20:49:17 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:51:12 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-105-125-6.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:58 -!- rme [rme@clozure-DC35A384.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:51:59 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 20:52:53 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:32 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-2-81.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:53:33 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 20:57:03 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-208-190-39-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 20:57:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:01 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 20:58:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 20:59:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:00:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:01:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:01:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:02:35 -!- fundamental [~fundament@0-13-e8-3c-ab-1d.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:03:08 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:43 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:04:18 I see that http://sbcl.boinkor.net/bench/ is unavailable. Did it move elsewhere, or is it just down? 21:04:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:05:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:06:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:07:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:08:12 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.155.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:40 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:08:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:09:40 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:57 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:10:49 rtoym: i should probably add a *compile-file-pathname* test and bail out if it's being compiled. 21:10:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:11:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:56 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 21:13:11 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:54 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit 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[~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 *Xach* is hyped 21:40:28 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-165-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:40:31 I'm not sure how easy this is to do, but I'm writing some API calls in common lisp that go to another web service. I got this part working, but part of what I want to do is integrate it with org-mode. So...given an elisp command, open a slime session to a lisp image that's running (just keeping sbcl open in the background with this image loaded if possible), execute the command I need, then disconnect from the session once the output 21:40:31 is returned which I can deal with in the rest of the elisp function. 21:41:02 -!- aw [~aw@p54B6BA5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:42 Xach: Is there a reason not to compile quicklisp? Other than it doesn't work? 21:42:07 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:04 I'm not sure if this is the most efficient way of doing, it or if there is a better option. Maybe if I left slime open with this library loaded, that'd work just fine without worrying about opening a connection, closing, etc. Ideas are definitely welcome if there's a better solution. 21:49:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:40 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:49 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 21:56:05 rtoym: well, i guess i'd have to make all the eval-whens right. 21:57:06 Ok. I guess quicklisp isn't really speed-critical, so interpreted is fine. 21:57:32 But a warning would be nice if it's not supposed to be compiled. 21:58:04 rtoym: yeah, it does mostly I/O 21:58:23 rtoym: an early version loaded the gunzipper without compiling...one round-trip through clisp and i learned the error of my ways :) 21:58:49 Haha! 21:58:59 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 21:59:48 *Xach* is going to see if he can get away with sha1 interpreted 21:59:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:02:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:23 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:36 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202717.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:51 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-135-145-182.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:33 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-220-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:50 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2FC2F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:03 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:15:02 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:25 -!- HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:57 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 22:17:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:11 kpreid__ [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 22:18:40 -!- mhd_ [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:40 -!- mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:53 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:20:59 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.129.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:43 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-168-108.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:53 slyrus___ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:57 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:25:04 argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:23 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:34 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:48 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.231.24] has joined #lisp 22:26:05 -!- kpreid__ is now known as kpreid 22:27:26 codemonsta [~codemonst@99-4-177-176.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:32 holy jesus 22:29:37 A fellow C++ programmer was bashing my choice in using sexprs in a DSL because the parens are 'unreadable', then I asked if he's ever studied a Lisp and he told me he's never studied Lisp because he 'hated it'. 22:29:45 how do you hate lisp????? 22:29:48 wtf 22:30:02 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Arrrr!] 22:30:07 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-57-243.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:13 codemonsta: when you never used it, especially without good editor... 22:31:59 also, people will believe lots of things, and usage of simplistic, constrained Scheme for introductory courses (with heavy FP leanings, often) didn't help. 22:32:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.86.231.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:30 i was trying to explain to him why sexprs are great and are worth getting used to, but he said the DSL is unusable because of it 22:33:02 I am starting to suspect less than positive things about his ability to reason about the subject at hand 22:33:09 so replace the ()s with []s 22:33:23 C++ programmers won't hate it, and it's just as easy to parse. :) 22:33:35 he demanded that it all be done like python with infix notation 22:33:43 so [] still wouldn't be good enough 22:34:02 foom: <> would be even better, every time i look at c++ code, it's full of these 22:34:05 lol 22:34:06 Guess you should just use tcl or lua instead of designing your own DSL 22:34:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:59 meh 22:35:01 codemonsta: you could tell him about ObjectiveC. It uses lots of [] :) 22:35:17 i don't know. I think I'll just not worry about catering to people who 'hate lisp' 22:35:32 if lisp isn't good enough for them, sure as hell nothing I make will be :) 22:35:58 it's quite funny, actually, that foo(bar baz) is ok, but (foo bar baz) is not 22:36:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-220-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:28 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:59 I'm starting to think less and less of people who haven't at least read SICP or done some lisp or functional programming 22:38:29 Dodek: sure, but neither +(1 2) nor (+ 1 2) are acceptable. 22:38:33 i mean, if you haven't the intellectual curiousity to study a lisp or ML, how can I possibly reach out to you? 22:38:53 haskell, clojure, SOMETHING other than C++ or python 22:39:24 sigh 22:39:33 foom: that's not true. look at GMP, for example. 22:39:36 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-191-121.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:27 GMP, the C library for multiprecision arithmetic? 22:40:38 (+ 1 2) is bad, but mpz_add(z, x, y) is acceptable? 22:40:53 foom: yes. 22:40:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:41:10 no, nobody uses GMP anyways, and obviously you'd use a C++ version that overrode + if you were gonna. :) 22:41:39 if i was going to use c++, you mean :) 22:42:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:54 sigh... I regret learning about lisp and fp... 22:42:55 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:43:26 which JSON library you recommend the most? 22:43:34 now none of my colleagues understand what I'm talking about... 22:43:35 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:51 should have just stayed a mediocre mort 22:44:20 codemonsta: or maybe you need to be better at teaching. :) 22:44:35 can't pour into a full cup 22:45:37 I've learned from bitter experience not to try to teach someone who is not willing to learn 22:46:42 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:46:58 *p_l|backup* needs a good JSON implementation for his API macros 22:48:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:35 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-46-183.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:53:15 argiopeweb_ [~elliot@184.91.42.66] has joined #lisp 22:55:25 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:19 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:56:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:57:19 rread_ [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:10 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:23 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:10 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ninuuprqlickptph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:10 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 22:59:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:06:06 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:10:28 codemonsta: the truth is, lisp is *too* good for them :D 23:10:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:11:41 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:13:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:18:23 UsedSockPup [~UsedSockP@189.214.151.190.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 23:18:30 gFFto [~Rza@ool-45743e2f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:32 PrincessSiski [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/siski] has joined #lisp 23:18:41 only gay people have lisps 23:18:43 discuss: 23:19:00 well 23:19:01 *PrincessSiski* discusses 23:19:07 I came here 23:19:12 i came 23:19:14 :3 23:19:14 ith thith a thupport group? 23:19:28 i alwayth have thith problem with my lithp 23:19:32 can anybody help me? 23:19:35 gay people are gay 23:19:37 you cant help them 23:19:40 wrong channel 23:19:41 god hates them 23:19:43 why ithn't thith called lithp? 23:19:44 *p_l|backup* /ignores 23:19:56 quisiera una papa caliente metida por mi culo 23:19:57 ooooo 23:20:07 wait what 23:20:12 i thought homos were gay 23:20:14 O.o 23:20:14 ando muy cachondo y me gustaria que alguien me rompiera el culo con una papa 23:20:19 habla habla 23:20:19 gay homos are gay 23:20:23 schalla habla 23:20:25 para posteriormente culearme con su verga 23:20:30 te quiero puta 23:20:31 su verga grueasa y carnosa 23:20:38 ok 23:20:40 you guys lost me 23:20:46 lol 23:20:59 tired of niggers? 23:21:04 sick of their monkeyshines? 23:21:10 buy a shotgun 23:21:11 niggers are tired 23:21:13 then we have the forum for you! 23:21:24 join us today at c h i m p o u t . c o m / f o r u m 23:21:39 at chimpout we welcome all human races 23:21:50 all are welcome except for niggers! 23:21:57 -!- UsedSockPup [~UsedSockP@189.214.151.190.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 23:22:07 lol 23:22:27 so yeah 23:22:30 speaking of niggers 23:22:36 np: Desto - Broken Memory [02:38/01:31] [320kbps/44kHz] 23:22:39 im tired 23:22:43 im bored 23:23:25 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 -!- PrincessSiski is now known as PeeingPrincess 23:24:30 thats sexy 23:24:39 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B0E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:25:23 -!- PeeingPrincess is now known as PrincessSiski 23:26:44 indeed 23:28:14 fe[nl]ix, ping 23:28:14 Fare, memo from rtoym: Is there a good reason for cmucl to update to the latest asdf2? 23:28:26 rtoym: ping 23:29:15 -!- gFFto [~Rza@ool-45743e2f.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 23:29:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 23:30:00 minion: memo for rtoym: if you already have 2.001 or later, no urgent need to update. If you only have 2.000, I would recommend updating to 2.002. 23:30:00 Remembered. I'll tell rtoym when he/she/it next speaks. 23:33:20 fe[nl]ix, I have massive unstability using iolib :-( sbcl semi-randomly dies during iomux:add-timer or iomux:set-io-handler. ccl seems to be doing the wrong thing for the (path :string) argument to posix-spawn-file-actions-addopen -- sigh. 23:36:28 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:34 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 23:36:35 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 23:36:35 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 23:37:32 -!- PrincessSiski [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/siski] has left #lisp 23:41:21 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:26 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-abgznrxxlhycvaka] has joined #lisp 23:47:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:27 *_3b`* wonders how long it would take to turn http://paste.lisp.org/+2E99 into something usable... 23:48:59 -!- Sergio` [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:04 Sergio` [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 23:50:39 any CFFI expert around? 23:52:42 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.50] has joined #lisp 23:53:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:53:33 pnq [asdf@ACA3AEFA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 <_3b`> does parenscript keep track of what functions are defined at all? 23:57:30 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Quit: Zoinks] 23:58:09 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 23:58:23 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp