00:01:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@220.177.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:05:05 molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lisp 00:05:12 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.36] has joined #lisp 00:05:59 -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has left #lisp 00:10:36 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-233-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:11:56 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:22:22 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.196] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:37 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:45 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 00:25:50 Good morning! 00:25:50 plage, memo from pkhuong: i've found it useful to use more concrete alphabets, e.g. business actions, instead of random symbols. 00:26:23 pkhuong_: Yes, thanks, that why I was looking for some slightly more realistic examples. 00:27:11 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:44:39 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-250-93.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:45 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 00:45:17 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 00:47:01 pnq [asdf@AC814DE6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:14 RustyWheeler [~russell@60-241-37-219.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:53:51 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@209.172.114.240] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 00:55:31 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:33 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-233-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:56:35 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:57:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B383.dip.t-dialin.net] 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03:29:51 *rtoym* finds a bug in the cmucl debugger that returns incorrect floating point values for sse2 builds. 03:30:09 *rtoym* fixes it for Mac OS X, but doesn't know how for Linux. 03:33:42 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:14 asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.12] has joined #lisp 03:37:11 jeeez [~Administr@117.193.164.209] has joined #lisp 03:37:27 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-amtlbifdpcgowizx] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 jeeez1 [~Administr@117.193.170.160] has joined #lisp 03:39:06 -!- curi_ [~curi@c-69-181-152-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:50 hi, can someone check this code: http://paste.lisp.org/+2E6Z it keeps returning nil. its a simple function to iteratively remove an element from a list 03:41:17 -!- jeeez [~Administr@117.193.164.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:29 Fare [~Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:07 jeeez1: you never actually return a value from this function, it seems 03:44:09 jeeez1: You don't do anything with (cons new result). 03:44:30 Probably wanted (push new result). 03:45:43 (dolist (item list result) ...) 03:46:11 Not that I'm suggesting that you write that -- just so that you understand why it is returning nil. 03:46:13 yep, CONS was the source of the problem 03:46:32 No, the problem was that you didn't modify result. :) 03:47:31 Also I'd suggest using (unless (eq x next) ... 03:48:04 You could also look at remove-if-not ... 03:48:32 Zhivago: will look into it! learning from Lisp Primer 03:49:10 sounds pretty old to me 03:49:23 You might also consider Practical Common Lisp. 03:49:47 and Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation (one of my best steals, ever) 03:50:40 PCL was a bit above me. so thought if i gave it a go after the Primer, it'd be easier 03:50:56 (I didn't exactly steal it - but it's funnier saying it like that) 03:51:31 p_l: will have a look at it too! ;) 03:51:53 -!- Fare [~Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:56 minion: gentle 03:51:57 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 03:52:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:53:10 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-128.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:42 jeeez1: IMHO definitely better than Lisp Primer, with great illustrations regarding reference manipulation (aka list processing ;-)) - It also has introductory material on different styles used in programming, like applicative and recursive ways to solve problems 03:58:18 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-128.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:59:03 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-128.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:41 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:00:56 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:14 Why do you call "list processing" "reference manipulation"? 04:02:20 Zhivago: play on CONS cell nature of being two pointers 04:02:30 might be my sleeping disorder speaking 04:03:16 s/pointers/slots. 04:03:31 It's dangerous to think of those as pointers. 04:05:11 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-128.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:23 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:09:38 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:33 -!- jeeez1 [~Administr@117.193.170.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:08 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 04:11:31 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:12:07 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:30 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.62] has joined #lisp 04:19:09 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:20:54 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:41 what's the most accurate cl reference, short of the ansi standard 04:22:51 i have cltl2, but i've seen more than one critique of it on accuracy grounds, and it seems to underspecify many of the older functions, such as property lists and the like 04:23:37 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:53 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:11 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:57 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 04:30:58 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Quit: off] 04:31:43 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.133.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:34:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pmbnduoqalbmunaw] has joined #lisp 04:44:05 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:24 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 04:49:47 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:51:38 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 04:51:41 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 04:51:54 yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:52:48 yoonkn__ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:55:59 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:18 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:57:28 -!- yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:58:50 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 04:59:16 Greetings lispers 05:00:20 I'm suddenly finding myself wanting to use anaphoric when, does everyone simply roll their own or is there some library that I should use? 05:00:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:01:17 i think i saw such a lib on common-lisp.net 05:01:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:01:34 i know nothing about it: http://common-lisp.net/project/anaphora/ 05:01:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:02:05 there's an AWHEN 05:02:17 Hmm, saw that on Cliki. It looked stale, but, really, how much development can there be on anaphoric functions? 05:02:45 BTW, toast is the nick I use when playing a FPS called nexuiz. 05:03:14 i appologize for the inadvertant collision 05:03:15 Sorry, anaphoric macros. 05:03:17 heh 05:03:25 there are only so many inanimate objects to choose from 05:03:38 NP, I was amused by the coincidence. 05:03:40 if it helps, toast is used as a verb in my nick, not a noun :-) 05:04:02 In my case, it is either depending on how well I'm playing. 05:04:03 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:04:37 hmm, would be nice if they marked it version 1.0 though 05:04:42 makes it seem like it's stale 05:05:04 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:42 Should probably just fork it and put the fork on github or similar. 05:06:34 yeah. cl seems stuffy at times, but while the core language is kinda idiosyncratic, it's no where near in the disarray of C++ and others 05:06:51 what it really needs are solid libraries 05:06:56 Wow, the sources, according to ViewCVS, were updated within the past week. 05:07:31 tcr [~tcr@220.177.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 05:07:33 hmm, email the dev to contribute :) 05:07:56 Maybe, I'd also like a git mirror somewhere. 05:08:05 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:11:23 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:01 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:18:52 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:58 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:16 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 05:24:53 -!- G0SUB 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[~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:27 ctp` [~user@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:22 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:14 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:22:49 stassats here? 07:23:20 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:24:13 To initialize a slot's value based on another slot's value you have to use initialize-instance, right? 07:24:36 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:30:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:31:45 zophy 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[~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:57 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:36 *relcomp* is quiet because they all seem to sleep right now. 08:04:03 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:04:34 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:15 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 08:08:42 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:09:00 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:10:49 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn246.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:15:42 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:07 tcr: if that's still a live question, yes, that's right 08:19:03 maetbag [~user@95-29-38-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:22:32 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 08:23:05 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:28:03 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 08:37:57 Xof: Can you remind me on the use case of :default-initargs? 08:38:41 Seems like there are three ways to initialize slots, but for a fairly common scenario you actually have to the most verbose means 08:39:01 have to decline 08:39:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:39:42 Also change-class doesn't work on condition on sbcl :-) and I thought I had a wonderful hideous use case for that yesterday! 08:40:28 xan_ [~xan@178.223.61.7] has joined #lisp 08:40:51 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:41 shevek [~shevek@athedsl-195980.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:41:41 -!- shevek is now known as aperturefever 08:42:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:43:51 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.62] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:52:49 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:56:04 tcr: default initargs are as if passed to make-instance / shared-initialize and friends, so you can write methods accepting those key args and act on the defaulted value 08:56:27 initforms only get used if there's no initarg passed (including default) for a given slot, and you can't get hold of the value 08:59:16 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:34 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:07:30 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.36] has joined #lisp 09:09:09 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined 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joined #lisp 10:13:37 Good evening (or nearly so)! 10:15:20 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-193.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:36 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:20:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:19 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:19 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-150.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:20:33 hi plage :-) how did it go? did you find a good example? I thought the one you mentioned was good (Da Lat as 3rd destination from the end) 10:24:34 I'm having problem with clozure 64 bits and cl-plplot. I get "Exception on foreign stack." How can I know if it's a bug related to the lisp code, the shared library, or ccl itself? 10:24:43 *laynor`* is a ffi noob 10:24:59 laynor`: Yes, that's the example I used. It went quite well in my opinion. 10:25:10 good to know :-) 10:25:34 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:35 less boring than 0010101, that's for sure 10:26:01 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:32:25 laynor`: Definitely! Thanks again for your help! 10:32:55 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:15 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:03 plage: happy to help :-) I was cleaning the house so I had idle thinking time :-) 10:45:01 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.73.140.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:45:52 heh! 10:48:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:51:18 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:03 wahhahh, lispworks is awfull 10:53:13 awfully crippled 10:53:22 lol 10:54:03 sepult: are you using the free evaluation version? 10:55:38 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:51 what else would i ? i'm not a business coorp. 10:57:19 minion: memo for nyef: What would it take to make INVALID-ARG-COUNT-ERROR also print the function in question? 10:57:19 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 10:58:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:00:35 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 11:07:09 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 11:07:49 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 11:09:24 aw [~aw@p54B6BCC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:55 -!- aperturefever [~shevek@athedsl-195980.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:11:23 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 11:12:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rnsxamikgnxajceu] has left #lisp 11:13:06 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:36 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:18:54 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 11:20:04 -!- G0SUB 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#lisp 12:38:48 Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:39:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:39:48 sepult: LispWorks seems to be a popular choice when people are writing CL programs as end-user GUI products. 12:40:06 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:40:19 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:52 -!- laynor` [~user@109.76.66.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:41:11 Xach: ... and when they can afford buying it. 12:41:43 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:50 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:41:57 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:42:07 If you sell programs for money, the LispWorks licensing seems pretty reasonable to me. 12:42:23 *Xach* sells programs for money, but they don't need a GUI, so he uses SBCL 12:42:25 If you can not afford LW as a /professional/ developer you are in deep shit anyway. :) 12:43:35 I am working at university. It could afford it but I am well off with sbcl, too. 12:44:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:22 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:48 hypno: I wouldn't say so 12:45:31 hypno: looking from the pov of a solo developer, getting LW would be rather pricy 12:45:58 Chicken and egg scenario 12:46:01 (I think I might save enough in... a year or two? assuming other important investments don't show up) 12:46:11 Alright y' then. So we have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm just tired of hearing all whining and moaning about prices of professional tools. 12:46:11 but it's not like it's unusual; Flash developers have the same problem 12:46:37 very few people are actually in the business of selling desktop apps for money these days anyway 12:46:40 Frankly speaking, I think getting a driver's license and a car will be higher on the priority list for the company 12:46:45 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:46:49 (or at least very few people not doing so as part of a giant company) 12:47:01 rsynnott: my experience with Adobe soft suggests that it isn't as pricy as LW 12:47:53 for example, few years ago, back when CS2 got released, to get the *whole* suite, it was under $1000 USD 12:48:07 p_l: as far as I remember, Flash, Illustrator and Flash Builder will be close to 1000 euro 12:48:12 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:16 companies can get driver's licences? 12:48:43 splittist: no, but I can make it a business expense 12:48:55 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:49:44 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:50:22 rsynnott: CS5 Master Suite (meaning *everything*) is ~2200 EUR. 12:50:27 *relcomp* iust found his old version of Allegro CL 2.0 for Windows. 12:50:51 relcomp: Was that when it was a thinly-rebranded product from another company? 12:50:54 p_l: CS5 doesn't include Flash Builder (which any serious developer will probably want) 12:51:09 you can get along without most of this stuff, but then a Lisp developer can get along without Lispworks, too :) 12:51:51 Xach: Don't know. But it is *very* old. 12:52:16 rsynnott: true 12:53:11 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:54:30 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:32 Xach: you mean, when it was a thinly-rebranded microsoft bob? (; 12:54:57 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 btw, does 64bit LW support creating 32bit binaries? 12:55:08 no way! 12:55:12 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-150.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:29 *relcomp* not being a native speaker is wondering what 'thinly-rebranded' means. 12:55:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:55:34 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-233-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55:36 (just kidding, it wasn't, but ISTR bob was based on some acl) 12:56:08 relcomp: some versions of Allegro CL for Windows were actually another company's product. 12:56:18 relcomp: I don't think that's been the case for a while. 12:56:37 indeed 12:56:54 it was 6 major releases ago, after all (: 12:57:39 *p_l* ponders if people would be interested in paying for pre-packaged SBCL with extra support for delivery of apps, assuming muhc lower prices than other commercial lisps.... 12:57:55 I believe it was acl 5 when franz had a version that runs on windows. 12:58:07 p_l: something like sb-studio? (: 12:58:21 antifuchs: sb-studio afaik is more of a consulting company :) 12:58:28 true 12:58:56 I think nikodemus' sb-studio manifesto was basically that, though (: 12:59:02 I was thinking of a way to sponsor development for win32/win64 and others 12:59:15 definitely worth a try 12:59:33 empirically, people seem not to want to pay for anything 13:00:02 I think people are now extremely unwilling to pay for development tools, certainly 13:00:41 rsynnott: I think it kind of depends on how they are priced... the dislike IMHO stems from giant upfront prices most people see 13:01:38 but you seem to think that 1k is "giant" 13:02:50 it's going to be hard to find a price point that is outside the range of "toy" and below "huge" 13:03:03 yep 13:04:04 Xach: is there a repo for quicklisp I can clone? I was thinking of improving the yes/no UI 13:04:19 Xof: probably because from my pov such price is getting close to "monthly pay after taxes" range. And that ~3000 EUR as some tools want bring it to "I could buy a good car for that" range 13:05:46 though it might be related to my dislike of debts :-) 13:05:57 (I guess one could amortize such payment) 13:06:06 p_l: Certainly, commercial lisps ship with a CAR as well. (couldn't resist ;) 13:06:15 hypno: ahahaha 13:07:18 ryepup: No. That yes/no UI is gone, actually. But I'd love to hear ideas. 13:07:19 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:44 G'morning all. 13:07:44 nyef, memo from tcr: What would it take to make INVALID-ARG-COUNT-ERROR also print the function in question? 13:08:05 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:10 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:08:22 ... reliable debug information? 13:08:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:07 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:11 knobo [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:18:36 -!- Guest50839 is now known as pkhuong 13:19:04 good afternoon 13:19:42 qucklisp? 13:19:50 is that a new lisp? 13:20:41 rtoym: what was the SSE2 bug? 13:21:01 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-26-82-254-96-127.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:10 leo2007: no. it's a project for setting up a library environment quickly. 13:21:14 Xach: it worked great when I tested on linux/sbcl, I only saw one problem. I sometimes load systems using slime shortcuts: ", load-system system-name" and that seemed to call a different load-system 13:21:26 ryepup: ah 13:21:33 I didn't look further into it 13:21:43 Xach: that's nice. 13:21:54 leo2007: I hope so. 13:22:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:44 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-36-81.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:40 pkhuong: The debugger (and TRACE) were getting the wrong floating point values out of the sigcontext. 13:29:23 So, nothing SBCL has to worry about? 13:30:24 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:30:38 I don't know. 13:31:54 SBCL doesn't grab floats from the sigcontext on x86oids because they're the full 80-bit floats. 13:32:19 At least CMUCL needn't worry about it any more :). 13:34:58 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-36-192.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 tcr: If I wanted to use cl-interpol together with named-readtables, what would you suggest I do? 13:36:46 sbcl supports 80-bit floats now? And wouldn't the sigcontext have them anyway? 13:36:56 In what ways does cl-interpol hack the reader again? 13:37:00 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-amtlbifdpcgowizx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:28 I thought it just bound #? 13:37:34 No, the point is that SBCL doesn't support 80-bit floats and the sigcontext does have them. 13:38:33 davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has joined #lisp 13:38:48 Xach: I think all you have to do is write a simple defreadtable which uses (dispatch-char #\# #\? #'cl-interpol:: ) 13:38:57 tcr: dispatching on #\# #\? 13:39:28 leo2007: do you know how to plot arrows with cl-plplot? I'm trying but I don't really get it, and I can't find the documentation for plarrows @_@ 13:39:55 nyef: Ah, ok. This was an sse2 bug. cmucl was grabbing the x87 register values out instead of the xmm register values. 13:40:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:40:09 Xach: In case you want to provide a patch to cl-interpol, it should perhaps use :weak-depends-on :hyperdoc), and then use conditional-loading on a new file readtable.lisp or syntax.lisp 13:40:16 zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has joined #lisp 13:40:26 s/:hyperdoc/:named-readtables/ 13:40:32 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:40:39 hello, I have a question about slime 13:40:40 and condition-loading on :named-readtables in *features* 13:40:55 (sorry ret pressed by accident) 13:40:58 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:41:01 tcr: if i have an arbitrary cl readtable object, is there a way to turn that into a named readtable? 13:41:26 *Xach* reads the fine manual 13:41:44 Xach: There's no object named-readtable 13:42:01 a named-readtable is a readtable object with an entry in a hash-table 13:42:35 when in slime debug mode (for example after division-by-zero signal) how do I navigate to form in source code which is directly responsible for causing it? I can see a function name in backtrace but nothing more specific. 13:42:55 zoldar: go to the frame, then press v 13:43:08 Use C-h m to see all bindings available 13:43:15 tcr: I guess what I'm getting at is: if I have a library that knows nothing about named-readtables, could I run its readtable initializer, grab the *readtable* it establishes, and then use that with named-readtables, with no explicit cooperation or ::s between the two. 13:43:18 Also read the slime manual in your slime source checkout 13:43:29 (M-x slime-info) 13:44:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:44:31 tcr: I'm getting "*** has no debug-lock information" then 13:44:43 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:46 *debug-block 13:44:58 zoldar: you have to compile your code with higher debug settings then 13:45:04 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn246.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:45:21 Xach: How would get access to its *readtable*? 13:45:34 tcr: by looking at *readtable* 13:45:43 at, not into. 13:46:09 well how exactly in case of cl-interpol? Does it not export its actual reader function's names? 13:46:54 You can do what you want but not out of the box 13:46:59 tcr: I would run (enable-interpol-syntax) 13:47:09 laynor``: I haven't tried arrows though and it seems plarrows is not in the manual. weird. 13:47:52 Xach: Wait actually, try (setf (find-readtable 'name) *readtable*) (I'm operating out of my memory) 13:48:51 or (register-readtable 'name *readtable*) 13:49:14 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 13:50:06 tcr: the former works great. thanks! 13:50:20 *Xach* is glad no cooperation is strictly required 13:50:36 I'm amazed myself :-) seems like I got the API pretty right 13:50:38 asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.110] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:51:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:51:07 tcr: Does it do readtable composition? 13:51:13 yes 13:51:35 Nice. 13:52:01 statically resolved, the manual explains why 13:52:06 leo2007: I found out, it's deprecated. they use plvect now, but, maybe because I'm not a native speaker, its manpage is obscure for me 13:52:34 leo2007: http://plplot.sourceforge.net/docbook-manual/plplot-html-5.9.6/plvect.html 13:52:35 nyef: http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/darcs/named-readtables/doc/named-readtables.html#important_api_idiosyncrasies 13:53:07 laynor``: i thought that was only for vector plot. 13:53:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:53:58 (defun interpol-table () (let ((*readtable* (copy-readtable nil))) (cl-interpol:enable-interpol-syntax) *readtable*)) ; is how i grabbed cl-interpol's table 13:54:56 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:54:58 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:55:32 that's a pretty generic idea, maybe it's something that could go into named-readtables itself? 13:56:13 (defun capture-readtable (fun) (let ... *readtable*)) 13:57:00 although the only other thing that springs immediately to mind is clsql 13:57:20 I rather intended those projects to add named-readtables as an optional dependency 13:57:41 That would be nice. 13:57:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:04 but I weak dependencies are in some way broken I forgot 13:58:08 s/I// 14:00:03 tcr: a way to capture readtables in cases where libraries don't get updated might also be nice. 14:00:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:40 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:51 (defreadtable foo (:initialization-function #'enable-foo-syntax)) 14:02:32 That sounds quite nice! 14:02:41 It's trivial to add, I'd say do it and send me a patch, but I have quite some pending changes that might result in conflicts 14:02:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:03:51 -!- yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:24 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:05:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:06:00 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:07:09 leo2007: maybe I'm dumb, but I can't plot a stupid (1 1) vector. How would you do it? 14:07:41 laynor``: plline? 14:08:32 leo2007: does it draw the arrow tip? 14:08:44 laynor``: (plline #(0 0) #(1 2)), you can use plpoin if you only want the marks. 14:08:55 laynor``: I have little idea, I don't use arrows. 14:09:04 AsSocF[ [~nmajo@mi061032.klientdrift.uib.no] has joined #lisp 14:10:11 leo2007: I see :-) I totally don't get the plvect function, I keep getting "Vector axis is not 0: 1", even when There are no "1" in my code. 14:10:45 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:09 laynor``: it is usually helpful to look at the examples in plplot. I am also confused by many things in plplot. to be honest its functions have the worst names. 14:11:29 so you better wrap it up in lisp and never have to look at them again ;) 14:13:09 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:13:11 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:13:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:37 potatis smakar guldus 14:14:48 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:15:12 leo2007: indeed :-) The strange thing is that it's already wrapped up in lisp by the cl-plplot author - at least it's not a pure ffi call. but I still don't really get it. 14:16:27 metaperl [~IceChat7@n00.bcrtfl01.us.wh.nameservers.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:18:55 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:59 fiveop [~fiveop@g229097080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:02 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:58 ejs [~eugen@109.167.99.252] has joined #lisp 14:26:51 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.146.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:06 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 14:31:44 laynor``: I use cl-plplot-system directly. the higher-level interface offered by cl-plplot doesn't support real-time plotting. 14:32:22 I need the plot to be updated for every data point generated. 14:32:49 ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 hello 14:33:54 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:34:32 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:37:55 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:41:39 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:42:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178135013.2.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:27 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:45:22 leo2007: I see. The wrapper I was talking about is in cl-plplot-system by the way. I'll try to go all the way down to cl-plplot-system and do my own wrapper then, it may be easier :-) 14:47:10 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:15 hello I have an UTF string that shoud be displayed on emacs slime repl as StartSSL , but I see StartSSLâ\204¢ why ? 14:48:50 because you screwed encoding somewhere 14:48:50 You didn't tell slime what encoding to use? 14:49:16 I'm working on socket 14:49:28 *socket stream 14:49:37 getting data from imap 14:49:40 You still screwed up an encoding somewhere. 14:49:50 are you using the right external format? 14:49:54 ok , I do some investigation 14:49:54 everywhere 14:50:01 Probably a latin-1 coding where you need a utf-8 coding. 14:50:18 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 14:50:18 Also probably where you created your socket stream. 14:50:46 maybe it's the encoding on the stream, I don't know . I check 14:51:17 kiuma: what's the value of slime-net-coding-system? 14:51:49 morning 14:52:06 Hello slyrus. 14:52:42 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.197] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 14:52:58 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111088.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:01 blandest, utf-8-unix 14:53:32 hey nyef. I suppose a freeze is coming? Are we (martin cracauer anyway) going to try to get asdf 2.000x in the tree beforehand? 14:53:53 I have no idea. 14:54:01 blandest, C&P works in repl 14:54:04 kiuma: mine too and I can copy / paste the "StartSSL" string fine 14:54:20 ah, but do you have an opinion? :) 14:54:39 I don't care? ASDF is entirely irrelevant to what I do. 14:54:47 ok, then 14:54:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 14:55:14 slyrus: please merge it 14:55:19 I do the following : I read the reply with read-char and get a string then 14:55:49 kiuma: you're probably creating the socket with an external-format of :ASCII - which AFAIK is correct for IMAP commands 14:55:50 (sb-ext:string-to-octets result :external-format (or external-format :us-ascii)) 14:55:53 but not for bodies 14:56:04 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:16 fe[nl]ix, correct 14:57:49 mhd [~mhd@pool-173-48-213-235.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.96] has quit [Quit: off] 14:58:00 fe[nl]ix, but to read a reply I compose the string collecting by read-byte and then (char-code byte) 14:58:06 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:40 can't I return to octet bytes ? 14:59:05 and then use sb-ext:octets-to-string ? 14:59:57 -!- TDT` [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:23 isn't string-to-octets the right function to call ? 15:00:57 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 15:01:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@snezana-fe0.wmx.mediaworksit.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:02:47 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:03:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:36 can someone thell me why the code I'm going to paste are different ? 15:05:49 -!- ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111729 15:08:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:08:18 where am I wrong in string-to-octets usage ? 15:08:55 and is my loop performant ? 15:08:56 are you aware there are unibyte and multi-bytes encodings? 15:09:05 s/bytes/byte/ 15:09:09 yes 15:09:35 kiuma: char-code gives you the numeric code of a character 15:09:42 it doesn't encode it 15:09:45 pass an appropriate :external-format to string-to-octets? 15:10:07 jsnell, I can't 15:10:36 I stored the reply with (code-char (read-byte ...)) 15:11:18 is the loop the right solution (actually it works, but I don't know if it is the right way) 15:11:22 it's not 15:11:28 kiuma: seems like you don't understand what you're doing 15:13:09 I only have to transform the string into a vector of bytes 15:13:23 that's all 15:13:26 stassats: that sounds like something Lambdy, the Helpful Lambda would say in emacs. 15:13:46 how can I do without the loop ? 15:15:18 hej jsnell. Any insight into the optimization question I raised on sbcl-devel? 15:15:19 the string is not a real string , but a vector of bytes transformed by code-char 15:15:33 milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.115] has joined #lisp 15:16:01 tcr: let me have a look, to be honest I only read sbcl-devel in batches of a month these days 15:16:27 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 15:16:42 -!- ejs [~eugen@109.167.99.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:52 kiuma: the string-to-octets method is correct if you deal correctly with the encoding 15:17:29 galdor, I already told I can't manage the encoding there 15:17:41 and there should be no "not a real string" 15:18:34 tcr: I'd leave the function as-is, and use a compiler-macro instead of inlining 15:19:33 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:19:43 stassats, galdor "hello" for example sould become #(104 101 108 108 111) independently from encoding 15:20:14 kiuma: and how "éléphant" shouldbecome ? 15:20:35 where is your EBCDIC now? 15:20:49 how should "éléphant" become, sorry 15:20:56 -!- aw [~aw@p54B6BCC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 15:21:28 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:32 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:21:34 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:01 galdor, (loop for ch across "éléphant" collect (char-code ch)) -> #(233 108 233 112 104 97 110 116) 15:22:11 pnq [asdf@AC8249A5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 well not a vector of course 15:22:43 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm60.gamma88.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:22:57 the "é" is encode in latin-1 by the 233 integer 15:23:03 jsnell: I also wanted to write to the mailinglist about some sugar on top of compiler macros some sort of pattern-matcher and partial-evaluator. Does not need to be fancy wondering if anyone worked on something like that 15:23:20 now try this with "" 15:23:27 you'll get (8364) 15:23:29 galdor, during reading pahse each byte is stored by (code-char) 15:23:41 it doesn't fit in an unsigned byte 15:23:49 galdor,  couldn't be found 15:24:14 it's the euro character 15:24:49 so, why on earth are you storing bytes in a string to later convert it into an unsigned-byte vector? 15:24:50 tcr: there's a partial evaluator somewhere in dwim.hu 15:24:56 I don't know why you're trying this transformation, but I think you're doing something wrong 15:25:16 stassats, because for imap headers it's correct 15:25:19 copec_ [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has joined #lisp 15:25:31 tcr: seemed to be pretty advanced at sbcl10 15:26:16 tcr: but really the best sugar for compiler macros is to use deftransform instead :-) 15:26:28 kiuma: afaik imap headers can use different encodings 15:26:51 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:26:56 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:27:22 galdor, it's a complex code, and works, and decoding works too for headers 15:27:54 all right, then :) 15:28:11 the only thing i know is that i wouldn't want to use this complex code 15:28:55 stassats, it's mainly for me , if then someone want to use it too is a welcome option :P 15:29:01 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 -!- laynor`` [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:10 -!- lusory [~bart@bb220-255-86-7.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:57 laynor`` [~user@93.107.11.68] has joined #lisp 15:31:25 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:32:23 laynor` [~user@93.107.11.68] has joined #lisp 15:32:52 ejs [~eugen@109.167.99.252] has joined #lisp 15:33:43 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-227-147.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:35:55 -!- laynor`` [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:34 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:37:12 laynor`` [~user@93.107.11.68] has joined #lisp 15:38:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:11 -!- laynor` [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:31 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20276D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 15:43:33 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 15:45:08 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 15:50:33 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:53:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:04 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:55:39 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:57:14 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:42 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:16 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 -!- benny [~user@i577A7A64.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:02:45 benny [~user@i577A8703.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:13 -!- ejs [~eugen@109.167.99.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:31 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:59 -!- laynor`` [~user@93.107.11.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:58 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:10:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.4.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:22 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:26 -!- ctp` [~user@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:03 is there a way to find a symbol by the symbol, not by the string? I need (find-symbol 'foo package), not (find-symbol "foo" package) 16:13:09 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:13:28 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:13:32 clhs symbol-name 16:13:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_2.htm 16:13:37 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:13:57 stassats: I can't specify the package for that 16:14:05 ahhhh 16:14:12 stassats: ok I see how could I use that, thanks:) 16:14:14 There's also just (string 'foo) :) 16:15:12 right:) 16:16:55 -!- pnq [asdf@AC8249A5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:43 lispm [~lispm@g231145240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:09 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-170-209-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:18:30 Say, does common-lisp.net support hg (mercurial)? 16:20:17 -!- lispm [~lispm@g231145240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:40 AFAIK, yes 16:21:07 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 mercurial only needs ssh for pushing and HTTP for pulling 16:21:56 minion: paste 111734? 16:21:56 Paste number 111734: "Towards better emacs support for SBCL IR2 hacking" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/111734 16:22:29 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:09 -!- AsSocF[ [~nmajo@mi061032.klientdrift.uib.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:23:32 That's my hack for this morning. 16:23:51 Still needs work, but should be a good start. 16:24:13 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:24:35 Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:25:32 cute 16:27:25 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 16:29:06 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:22 any asdf hackers around? Is this the right sort of thing to do for asdf2: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111736 16:32:35 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 16:32:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:33:07 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:13 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:34:16 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:34:51 hm, how can I intern a possibly new symbol into another package? 16:35:02 ... With INTERN? 16:35:19 nyef: loal, thanks:) 16:35:28 -!- clop [~jared@64.132.38.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:36:17 fe[nl]ix: I was just wondering if I set up a project if cl.net has the hg server already running or something. (I'm not all that familiar with hg, but I thought you needed some server running.) 16:36:17 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:51 nyef: Didn't someone else do a vop lifetime graph thing some time back? (Or was that you?) 16:37:19 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:40 I don't believe I wrote code to output them, but I certainly made a couple of graphs. 16:37:56 Mainly to explain the concept and how to make :target do the useful thing. 16:37:57 Xof: any objections to merging in asdf2? 16:38:21 nyef: Ok. I know somebody did, but can't remember who or where it is. 16:38:42 milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.115] has joined #lisp 16:40:26 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 16:41:31 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:57 Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:42:07 rtoym: not AFAIK 16:42:45 -!- maetbag [~user@95-29-38-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:43:59 maetbag [~user@95-29-1-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:05 fe[nl]ix: No hg server already running or not hg server needed for it to work? 16:46:34 no hg server needed 16:46:42 http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/PublishingRepositories 16:46:52 apparently, there are HG servers 16:47:04 somebody would have to install one of them 16:47:55 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:15 rtoym: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/StaticHTTP 16:48:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:49:16 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. Maybe I'll just stick with plain ol cvs. 16:49:55 :-) 16:50:27 why not git ? 16:50:40 clop [~jared@64.132.38.198] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:52:09 Mostly because I don't have git on my mac. I tried before and it made a mess of things. 16:52:15 leadnose [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:52:21 xan_ [~xan@45.95.252.195.static.beotel.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:41 *Xach* wonders what other lisp projects use mercurial 16:53:07 xemacs does. Don't know of any other, but I never looked. 16:53:17 rtoym: Apple will be including git soon, I think. 16:53:33 yay 16:53:41 sellout: in Xcode ? 16:54:16 fe[nl]ix: Yeah  at least, it's supported in Xcode 4, and so likely will be bundled with it. 16:54:17 Xach: weblocks 16:54:27 *rtoym* is still using 10.5 and doesn't expect to upgrade to 10.6 for some time. 16:54:42 fe[nl]ix: ah, thanks. 16:54:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:44 Xach: http://bitbucket.org/repo/all?name=lisp 16:55:42 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:55:56 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 sellout: wow, they still don't include git?? 16:56:45 rtoym: git is a lot easier to get working on obscure platforms (like macs) than darcs :) 16:57:18 Oh, maybe it was darcs that was a mess. Whichever one needs haskell. 16:57:19 Hi all. I have an issue with hunchentoot and was wondering if there's any advice out there before I go diving into it, nitrox and all.. 16:57:38 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:50 (or was that ocaml? I can't remember now.) 16:57:51 Shaftoe: hunchentoot works pretty well for me. the mailing list is generally helpful and friendly. 16:58:16 this character:  (code point 8211) chokes the output, with flexi streams complaining that it's not encodeable in iso-8859-1 16:58:20 rtoym: yeah, that's darcs 16:58:26 From the depths of blackness comes a lisp dialect that compiles to Python byte code. Muhahahaha. <--- .... 16:59:15 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 16:59:40 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:55 Xach: you are right. I think I found the solution already. 16:59:55 thanks 17:00:11 Shaftoe: something to do with reply-external-format? 17:00:14 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:35 something about *hunchentoot-default-external-format* 17:00:41 still investigating 17:01:44 Xach: yes. Thanks a lot. 17:01:49 Shaftoe: it really isn't 17:02:06 sometimes I simply forget to check mailing lists. 17:02:14 ost: isn't what? 17:02:44 is there a library to easily parse commandline arguments ? 17:02:59 PissedNumlock: there are a few libraries for that. 17:03:14 Shaftoe: isn't encodeable in iso-8859-1 =) 17:03:19 any recommended one Xach ? 17:03:29 PissedNumlock: http://common-lisp.net/project/qitab/ has a link to one I've seen 17:04:15 ost: yeah. I figured =) 17:04:20 I haven't tried any, sorry. 17:04:30 There was another one, I thought, but now I'm not seeing it. 17:04:32 np, thx for the link 17:04:39 ost: my quandry is why it gets there in the first place. as the input is coming through hunchentoot. 17:04:46 last minute work for a university project I have to defend tomorrow 17:04:57 ost: i.e. if all of my system is set to one type of encoding, there should never be an outbound issue... right? 17:05:00 a decent cli interface might be handy 17:05:11 ah yes 17:05:31 PissedNumlock: http://git.b9.com/?p=getopt.git;a=summary is another one 17:07:26 Shaftoe: user may submit a form with whatever characters 17:08:13 ost: yeah, I was assuming there was a difference between what hunchentoot presents me (the developer) versus what comes directly from user (raw-post-data) 17:08:30 nyef: Ah, found it. It's from froydnj: www.cs.rice.edu/~froydnj/lisp/vop-life-dump.lisp. 17:08:49 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:09:07 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:38 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 17:12:07 marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 17:12:11 hi 17:12:18 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 17:12:30 i have a variable definition wich uses one function 17:12:40 and later in the file, the definition of the function 17:12:58 SBCL is unable to compile, i'm guessing i should enable some option or so 17:13:20 how i can fix the problem keeping the variable and function in position? 17:13:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:35 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:14:38 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:16:15 -!- copec_ [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has quit [] 17:18:22 -!- abstract [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:59 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:16 abstract [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:25 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has quit [Quit: tfb] 17:23:24 marioxcc: I can't reproduce the problem. 17:23:42 marioxcc: what does the code look like? 17:24:12 Xach: thanks for your response 17:24:14 it's something like 17:24:21 (defvar *board* (make-array (list *board-width* *board-height*) 17:24:21 :element-type '(member t nil) 17:24:21 :initial-element nil)) 17:24:21 [...] 17:24:44 and then 17:24:44 ups 17:24:45 marioxcc: please use past.lisp.org if it's more than a couple lines 17:24:48 i jsut realized the problem 17:24:56 Glad to help! 17:25:04 they were just 4 lines, but i will do 17:25:11 thanks anyway, i found it :) 17:25:34 compiling should be fine, but loading would fail 17:27:00 clhs boolean 17:27:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_ban.htm 17:27:32 which won't be upgraded anyway 17:27:42 err, will be 17:29:01 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:36 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:48 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 17:30:58 stassats: thanks, i found the problem :) 17:32:02 marioxcc: if you want performance benefits, use bit-arrays 17:32:17 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:33:21 or byte vectors, depending on the task. 17:33:23 stassats: for now, simplicity is prefered over performance, but this may change :) 17:33:52 each board tile can be either be a wall or a way 17:34:18 the board is rectangular, so i'm using a 2D vector 17:34:21 ¿is this ok? 17:34:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:31 depends 17:35:35 on what it depends? 17:35:57 on what you need 17:36:13 marioxcc: just try it and see what happens 17:38:33 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:39:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:45 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@218.188.76.161] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 17:49:59 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:50:25 -!- sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:50:25 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:50:45 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-182.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:55:09 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:29 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:57:39 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 17:58:59 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: lnostdal_] 17:59:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:59:21 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:38 rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:10 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@45.95.252.195.static.beotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:48 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: I hope it gets good and Messi...] 18:13:32 zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has joined #lisp 18:13:33 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:13:44 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:16:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 18:16:29 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:16 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:09 -!- jbd [~user@67-198-71-121.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:03 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-jxavzajunxnxrptk] has joined #lisp 18:21:03 xan_ [~xan@178.223.43.219] has joined #lisp 18:22:16 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 18:23:28 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:28:10 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 18:29:42 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:31:33 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082C4DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:32:49 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:26 Draggor1 [~Draggor@adsl-99-144-211-79.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:41 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082EE6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:26 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36:51 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-66-24.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:41 Heh, that was interesting. I had to recompile a function to pick up changes to my logical host definitions. 18:39:16 dysinger [~dysinger@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:22 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:57 ...because when it was initially compiled without the host defined, the pathname was lowercased at read-time... 18:42:38 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:44:32 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:37 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:52:23 Xach: So, is that a permitted behavior, or an overly-aggressive optimization? 18:53:16 nyef: Good question, but I can't work up any enthusiasm for finding the answer. 18:53:30 Heh. Fair enough. 18:58:27 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:22 rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:39 [mzm] [~ziggy@de2-as4544.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 nyef: is there a safe way to change at runtime the functions in sbcl core (the ones that belong to implementation, that is) 19:00:42 Some of them, sometimes. 19:00:50 Which ones did you have in mind? 19:01:22 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:26 nyef: lots of them - it was an idea of how to deal in single binary with conditionally-enabled extensions 19:01:42 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:01:44 stuff like recognition that you're running on cpu with AVX etc. 19:02:01 Ah, *backend-subfeatures* sort of things? 19:02:09 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 nyef: yeah, except not requiring recompilation 19:02:47 The basics aren't hard, especially if you have a list of functions to change and the functions to change them to. 19:02:56 Just set up a function that does a lot of (setf fdefinition). 19:03:11 It's the details that might cause problems. 19:03:28 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:29 nyef: that's what I was thinking of, I was just wondering if there are any low-level issues such operation might cause 19:03:40 (setf fdefinition) goes via the globaldb, so monkeying with the globaldb internals is not a bright idea. 19:03:48 Anything inlined will cause problems. 19:04:01 Stuff like that. 19:04:28 Make sure your function type signatures are compatible. 19:04:49 ziga` [~user@89.142.21.141] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 19:08:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@178.223.43.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:22 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:54 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:10:29 btw, AMD is trying to spearhead a new extension to x86 designed specially for better synchronisation between multiple execution threads 19:11:12 -!- Draggor1 is now known as Draggor 19:12:02 xan_ [~xan@178.223.43.219] has joined #lisp 19:12:58 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:18:11 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:56 davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has joined #lisp 19:20:12 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 19:21:35 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:37 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 19:24:01 -!- davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:45 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-208-213.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:26:38 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:27:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:23 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:41 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:30 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 19:29:52 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:59 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:58 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:03 I was wondering, is there any way to have custom syntax (reader macros) lexically scoped to some form? Besides enabling/disabling it with 2 top-level forms before and after it (which expand to an eval-when which always modifies the readtable). 19:34:03 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:46 HG` [~HG@85.8.90.164] has joined #lisp 19:36:04 or would it require another reader-macro merely to enable/disable it within its scope? 19:36:18 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:36:22 <_3b`> probably would need a reader macro 19:36:52 <_3b`> since the entire form has been READ by the time anything else sees the contents, so it is too late to modify the reader 19:37:36 (defun* (sum -> real (>= return-value 0)) ((a real (>= a 0)) (b real (>= b 0))) (+ a b)) ; <--- curious syntax... reads definitely easier than cl-def 19:37:50 I guess... I can't see how else one could alter the reader's behaviour within the form. 19:38:42 pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has joined #lisp 19:39:10 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest42424 19:40:08 -!- maetbag [~user@95-29-1-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:19 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:34 p_l: I find it odd that it's not spelled: (defun* sum ((a real (>= a 0)) (b real (>= b 0)) -> real (>= return-value 0)) (+ a b)) 19:41:50 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-6B317C66.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:50 -!- mhd [~mhd@pool-173-48-213-235.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:58 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-88-104.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:42:28 foom: I suspect it was easier to keep consistency this way (the library supports similar forms for defmethod and others as well) 19:42:46 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:07 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:44:30 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 p_l: "advanced synchronization facility" is the thing you meant above? 19:44:58 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:17 foom: the AMD thing? yes. 19:45:28 still in early proposal stage 19:46:02 Right. 19:46:05 http://bitbucket.org/eeeickythump/clod/ <--- interesting project 19:47:03 I wonder how the whole Intel vs AMD thing works out. One of them does a bunch of research and makes a new thing, but nobody will actually use it until they give it to their competitor. :p 19:47:22 ... Speaking of odd lisp<->emacs mode interfaces... LiamH, you here? 19:48:03 foom: not exactly true... you get people to use it, so your cpus seem faster 19:48:45 (then you get intel cheating by making sure that apps compiled with their compilers switch to unoptimized codepaths on non-intel cpus) 19:49:19 "but we don't know what's the fastest method on amd chips, so we just choose the slowest possible method to be safe" :) 19:49:43 I guess you get to use your new stuff in SPEC benchmarks 19:50:01 not sure anyone actually ever uses it outside of that until it's common though. :P 19:50:41 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:52:24 foom: that's why people grab intel compilers, they promise that they include variants dependant on available extensions... 19:52:50 i.e. your binary works on standard x86, but should detect availability of various extensions and use them 19:52:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.175] has joined #lisp 19:52:54 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has left #lisp 19:53:16 except that for it truly work, you need to patch the binaries with unofficial replacement for cpu-detection routine (the intel's one is cheating) 19:53:43 I think someone even mentioned possibility of suing Intel for misinformation of customers. 19:56:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:56:11 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:29 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:47 kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:28 did LiamH know about the TRACE facility? 19:58:46 yes 19:58:53 ah. there he is :-) 19:59:07 TRACE doesn't work on self-recursive calls, you need :encapsulate nil for that to happen. 19:59:37 Not what I want, however. In some cases, I might want the result of a particular addition. But if I trace #'+, ouch. 19:59:40 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:00:19 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:00:20 So, what you somewhat want is a template for a series of evaluations? 20:00:26 hmm. replace specific '+'-s with a PLUS function? 20:00:40 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:52 nyef: yeah, something like that. 20:01:05 maden [~maden@dsl-151-61.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:01:35 I'll try to post an example tonight. 20:01:40 Ah, cool. 20:02:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:20 I like some of the suggestions, but it's hard to figure out what some of the packages do and how to use them. 20:02:31 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:03:10 What I'm starting to want is some unholy cross between org-mode, auctex preview-latex, and common lisp. 20:03:32 carbocalm [~user@204.101.159.226] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:53 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@sccc-66-78-236-235.smartcity.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 20:04:35 nyef: exactly. I don't need the preview-latex though (you do know you can get the something like that in org mode, right?). 20:04:44 I haven't actually followed through, but I know how to embed TeX markup in lisp source and make it compile. 20:05:15 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.90.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:16 You can get LaTeX markup to display properly in org-mode? Really? 20:05:44 nyef: you could augment clod (that I linked) and make it order org-mode to render to latex then pass it to preview... 20:05:53 zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has joined #lisp 20:06:28 Yes. http://orgmode.org/manual/Embedded-LaTeX.html#Embedded-LaTeX 20:06:30 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:07:11 Ooh. 20:07:44 Now, can we combine org-mode, LaTeX and Lisp? mmmmmm 20:07:56 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:08:02 -!- Deltaf1re [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has left #lisp 20:08:06 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:10 As I said, I know how to compile certain LaTeX markup meaningfully in Lisp. 20:08:24 entropi [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/lisp-tex-test-2.png 20:08:41 (As an example of what could be done.) 20:08:58 nyef: cool! 20:09:29 Haven't actually done anything with that in terms of compilation, but I know how, and it really is pretty, isn't it? 20:09:41 *LiamH* wants 20:09:50 ejs [~eugen@94-248-44-240.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:10:23 The magic required is, of course, a non-terminating macro-character, #\$. 20:10:34 have anyone here played with pre-forked processes, ipc and sbcl? 20:10:59 hypno: What -sort- of IPC? 20:12:11 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:12:40 nyef: well, any sort that lets the master communicate with the child(s). unix domain sockets, normal sockets, or even (perhaps preferably) the sysv ftok/sem* thingy? 20:13:00 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:13:07 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet6542.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:35 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 20:13:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:31 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 nyef: bah! you should do that all with clx and zpng. 20:15:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:31 Xach: Right, because writing my own emacs really should be at the top of my priority list. 20:15:47 Or were you referring to the screenshot? 20:15:55 the screenshot, of course. 20:16:20 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:37 Okay, I can see that as an argument. 20:16:49 I'll put that on my possible projects queue. 20:17:02 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 I'll take a look at it too. It would make a nice demo. 20:17:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.106] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:44 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:17:45 At the same time, if cl-screenshot just uses run-program and those other tools, would it count? 20:18:02 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 No. 20:18:05 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:18:51 nyef: although it does get around my clever rhyme "If it's FFI, it won't fly" 20:18:57 Nothing rhymes with "run-program" :( 20:19:23 If it uses run-program, it probably wasn't written in Ogham 20:20:11 If it uses run-program, it had its heart ripped out by Mola Ram 20:20:34 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:41 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:46 That's...I'm not sure what that is. 20:21:01 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:11 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 20:21:12 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:21:20 google knows :) 20:22:06 Oh, I know, I mean I can't figure out if that formulation is awesome or dreadful. 20:22:34 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:41 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:54 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:22:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:29 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-249-130.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:23:44 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:23:58 good evening everyone 20:24:15 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:14 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25:57 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:26:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:27:28 Hrm... I'm getting "failed to create dvi file from /tmp/orgtex2508???.tex", for various values of "???" when I try the latex previous stuff in org-mode. 20:28:09 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:53 Ah, no dvipng. 20:29:45 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:10 Hrm. No, still something wrong. 20:30:19 -!- ziga` [~user@89.142.21.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:57 nyef: I don't recall having to install anything additional; I think plain old TeXLive worked for me. 20:32:19 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:49 -!- kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:33:18 zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has joined #lisp 20:33:54 -!- carbocalm [~user@204.101.159.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:52 -!- [mzm] [~ziggy@de2-as4544.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:00 Ah. It's using the TeX setup and not the LaTeX setup. 20:38:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:38:41 Joreji_ [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:53 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:39:02 ... or not. Hrm. 20:39:10 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:40:25 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:12 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 pnq [asdf@ACA29060.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:58 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:44:55 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:45:55 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 20:46:26 Is it possible to get sbcl for windows as a tarball instead of a .msi? 20:46:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:59 It at least used to be possible. Or you could build your own. 20:47:09 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 20:47:18 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 20:48:59 Hrm. Lovely. The error message in the log is that fullpage.sty isn't found. The corresponding bit of configuration is marked "% do not remove". 20:49:22 nyef: Do you know where? I'd prefer not to have to build it myself, if possible 20:49:36 I'm afraid not. 20:49:37 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:49:48 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:17 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:27 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA29060.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:06 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:52:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:54:27 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:55:34 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:43 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:52 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 20:56:02 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 20:56:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:57:40 -!- Guest42424 is now known as pkhuong 20:57:58 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:28 -!- ejs [~eugen@94-248-44-240.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:01:31 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:55 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:03:51 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:02 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:04:10 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:07 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:17 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:05:44 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:43 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:25 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:19 -!- entropi [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:30 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:15:43 -!- kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:16:47 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:07 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:20:13 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:47 Turns out that texlive wasn't fully installed. :-/ 21:22:00 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:41 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-124-70.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-143-150.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:37 dysinger_ [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:30:16 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:11 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 21:31:17 HG` [~HG@85.8.90.164] has joined #lisp 21:32:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:34:56 -!- dysinger_ [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:21 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:35:37 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:19 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:35 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:54 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:47:19 marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has joined #lisp 21:47:23 hi 21:47:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:47:33 is there a way to unload a package? 21:48:02 ie. if i loaded system FOO than is in package :FOO i want to delete all symbols, clasess, functions and so from :FOO 21:48:54 You can delete the package. 21:49:03 Won't do the full job, but it's a start. 21:49:03 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:13 (At least, it won't do the full job on SBCL.) 21:49:39 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:50:05 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-249-130.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:50:05 how much of a crazy idea would it be to port SBCL (or imp x) to assembly? 21:50:33 krzysz00: ida sbcl => ported! 21:50:36 nyef: ok :) 21:50:54 krzysz00: AFIK porting means make work on another platform 21:50:59 not on another languguage 21:51:07 another language would be translating, i guess 21:51:11 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:26 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:51:33 you can easily translate SBCL or any other program into asm, just compile in the usual way and unassable the executable 21:52:51 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:53:40 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:52 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:03 so, compile, disasm, fire up im qemu, *cross fingers* 21:54:52 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:18 ¿what? 21:55:30 perhaps you're confused about what is needed for something to "fire up in qemu" 21:55:38 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:38 dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has joined #lisp 21:56:15 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@12.43.172.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:43 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 21:56:54 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:39 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:11 rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:47 Is there an explanation of the SBCL profiler's report format available somewhere? Someone sent me a profile output and said (basically) "what's going on?" and I find myself a bit lost. The online manual seems incomplete in this area (or I've found the wrong one). 22:01:31 Which profiler? 22:01:42 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:06:46 nyef: looks like the statistical one to me. My guess is what I'm seeing is a call graph, but I'm not sure how to interpret the (dashed-line) delimited blocks. 22:06:57 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:07:38 d'oh -- never mind. I think I get it now. It's just upside-down from what I'm used to. 22:08:16 not sure what the numbers in brackets are, though. 22:08:33 e.g., "READ-PACKED-REPORT-BUFFER [23]" 22:08:40 what's the [23]? 22:09:45 <_3b`> if i remember right, that points to a specific block delimited by the ---- 22:09:58 jasonx [jasonx@93-139-86-186.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:10:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:25 <_3b`> the line indented differently within the block marks the function that block describes, before that is stuff that called it, after is stuff it calls 22:12:08 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:12:49 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-116.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:13:01 I'm trying to go through a list of plists and destructively modify them. It works for modifying, but adding properties doesn't seem to work, which I'm assuming is as an artifact due to some sort of shadowing 22:13:30 <_3b`> probably an artifact of modifying a binding instead of the original list 22:13:50 well, the modifying part works. the adding properties doesn't. 22:13:53 _3b`: I suspected that the [32] was somehow an index.... 22:14:19 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 this with dolist and loop for. 22:14:24 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 any ideas on what I should use instead? 22:14:41 _3b`: is it maybe to distinguish between different stack entries for the same function? 22:15:29 <_3b`> rpg: i think there should only be one entry for a given function, which is the block where that function is indented differently 22:16:22 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-36-192.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:16:30 _3b`: first bit of counts is amount of time used relative to the current block, right? 22:16:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:00 Doesn't the sprof basically have the same layout as what gprof produces? 22:17:51 <_3b`> Shaftoe: hard to say without more context, possibly you should either be using a different data structure than plist, or maybe return a new list (possibly reusing some or all of the old one) instead of destructively modifying it 22:17:57 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20276D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:02 -!- ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:12 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-168-108.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:13 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.19.47] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:19:25 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:19:29 rtoym: I didn't find doc for either actually, in the sbcl manual. There's a description of the flat report, but not the call graph (or I missed it). 22:20:23 _3b`: That looks like the right hypothesis. when I counted down to the 23rd entry I found the block for READ-PACKED-REPORT-BUFFER. 22:20:24 <_3b`> rpg: i'd guess an absolute call count, showing number of times that function called or was called by the function for that block 22:21:04 <_3b`> (well, sample count rather than call count, since it is statistical profiler) 22:22:27 _3b`: right. there are 2 sets of sample counts: one for the function in question (2nd pair of columns) and one, I believe, for the others WITHIN the function in question. 22:22:40 _3b`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111750 22:23:19 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:23:31 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 22:23:31 Don't entirely get rows like this: 443 4.4 1020 10.2 WIRE-FORMAT:READ-OCTETS-CAREFULLY [8] (this is the "focused" function) 22:23:35 what say you, squire? =) 22:23:52 <_3b`> rpg: i'd guess recursion 22:23:54 Looks like it uses absolutely 10.2 % of time, and 1020 samples, but I'm not sure what the 443 is. 22:24:04 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:15 <_3b`> 443 samples where it showed up twice (or more) on the stack 22:24:17 _3b`: right. calls to read-octets-carefully directly within itself... 22:24:52 Are there docs for this inside CMUCL somewhere that should be ported to the SBCL manual? 22:25:10 I'm too lame to hack on SBCL, but Texinfo I can somewhat manage... 22:25:34 <_3b`> Shaftoe: (setf (getf i :c) "new" ) modifies I 22:26:18 <_3b`> Shaftoe: modifying the contents of the list bound to I will be visible to t other things that reference that list 22:26:33 rpg: No, there are not cmucl docs for sprof. 22:27:05 OK, I suppose I could try writing a bit of doc on the call graph format, and people could correct it. 22:27:07 <_3b`> Shaftoe: but modifications that just add to the beginning of the list, which i expect SETF of GETF does for new items, will only affect I 22:28:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:28:56 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:29:26 you're right. 22:30:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111750#1 22:30:22 is that cool that used nconc that way? 22:30:37 or am I transgressing unwritten rules by using these things this way? 22:30:47 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:42 <_3b`> Shaftoe: what happens if you put an empty list into *tmp*? 22:31:43 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:51 -!- sykopomp is now known as sykopomp` 22:32:08 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 22:32:39 you mean a list which contains an empty list 22:32:41 -!- sykopomp is now known as sykopomp` 22:32:48 I hear what you mean. nil happens. 22:33:01 but I never expect the lists to be nil. 22:33:06 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 22:35:25 pnq [asdf@AC843A41.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:49 I guess what I'm wondering is if the spec says doing this sort of thing is illegal. I mean, what if a particular implementaiton of dolist doesn't use this particular macro-expansion implementation 22:37:36 <_3b`> aside from the problem of not working if the plist is empty, i think it is valid 22:37:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:40 <_3b`> since you don't modify the list DOLIST is iterating over, and nconc is specified to modify the first list(s) 22:39:28 <_3b`> though it guess it also requires that the input plists are not literals (for example returned by ' ) and don't share structure 22:41:07 <_3b`> you could do something like (loop for i on *tmp* do (setf (getf (car i) :c) "new" )) 22:41:53 <_3b`> actually, another style problem with NCONCing the new stuff at the end... if you add the same thing twice, GETF would see the old version, which might be unexpected 22:42:05 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:16 what do you mean by your last comment? 22:43:22 oh oh oh. 22:43:24 I Get it. 22:43:37 you mean I could mess with the validity of the plist. 22:44:00 the loop doesn't seem to work either. I'll try again just to be sure. 22:45:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:05 <_3b`> though i guess it wouldn't add it twice, it would just modify the old version directly in this case 22:46:12 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:25 <_3b`> so you could probably ignore that bit 22:47:04 (loop for i on *tmp* is non-halting 22:47:20 I was doing loop for i in *tmp* and didn't know there was a different semantic on that 22:47:25 I will investigate this on keyword 22:47:36 I will investigate this "on" keyword 22:48:08 <_3b`> ON sets I to each tail of the list, for example (loop for i on '(1 2 3) ...) i would be (1 2 3) then (2 3) then (3) 22:48:31 ahh. interesting. 22:48:39 that's probably why I get the non-halting. 22:49:07 <_3b`> so (setf (car i) ...) modifies the actual contents of the list in place 22:50:02 alright. I'm gonna go with the nconc version since it works in my specific case. Thanks for taking the time. 22:50:26 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:50:39 <_3b`> not sure what you mean about ON not halting 22:52:03 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:19 Has anyone had experience using Buildbot or something like it with lisp-based projects? I'm contemplating an automated build and test setup for ccl. 22:56:09 not sure why it'd be any different for lisp-based projects than anything else 22:56:27 You run a script that does a build, then run a script that does some tests. 22:56:30 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.17.60] has joined #lisp 22:58:25 rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:42 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:45 Do you think I should I even be looking at them, then? If they're just complicated wrappers around "run this build script" and "run this test script", well, I've got ssh for that. 22:58:53 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-208-213.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:05 rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:07 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 22:59:23 _danb_ [~user@124-170-209-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:59:49 _3b`: try it. 23:00:10 (setf *tmp* (loop for i from 1 to 5 collecting (list :a i))) (loop for i on *tmp* do (format t "~a~%" i) do (setf (getf i :b) "AAA")) 23:00:12 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 23:00:50 although, looking back, I see that you said use (car i) 23:00:52 my bad. 23:01:37 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02:53 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.106] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:03:09 ( I had said that before I fully knew what the "on" keyword was about) 23:03:11 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 23:03:28 tcoppi [~nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:15 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212.200.194.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:38 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:09:51 <_3b`> right, the CAR is important there :) 23:14:49 -!- coyo is now known as AwayYote 23:21:16 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:08 Draggor1 [~Draggor@adsl-99-152-244-49.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:07 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:27:10 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-144-211-79.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:28:38 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-116.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:15 laynor [~user@93.107.11.68] has joined #lisp 23:29:35 =) 23:29:38 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 23:30:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:10 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-102-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:04 *Xach* feels the excitement 23:37:51 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@mobile-166-137-137-079.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:38:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.17.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:30 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-92.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 23:38:38 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.17.60] has joined #lisp 23:40:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:42:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:45:41 dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:47:22 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:25 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:51:12 bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.74.141] has joined #lisp 23:53:28 -!- AwayYote is now known as coyo 23:53:49 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:26 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:57:47 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:59:29 _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp