00:00:30 I was about to say I'm such a noob with ffi (and cl too I guess) that I don't even know what to report 00:03:24 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:12:30 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 -!- koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:12 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 00:28:34 .29 isn't a year old, it's ten months old. 00:33:07 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:33:46 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has left #lisp 00:34:03 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:36:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:36:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:37:06 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:04 nyef: the file timestamp says otherwise: 04/06/2009 00:39:26 (the executable) 00:40:20 but yeah, the sb-* folder are newer, I didn't look at them before :-) 00:41:54 *laynor* created it's first ticket on ccl's Trac 00:45:18 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:46:49 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:47:26 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:58 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:23 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:49:10 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:59 laynor: The SBCL Version scheme gets a patchlevel bump every month. The current version is 1.0.39, therefore .29 was ten months ago. 00:51:41 nyef: got it :-) 00:53:28 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:56:01 wow, what a great welcome from 1.0.37, straight to sldb :O 00:56:27 s/sldb/ldb 00:57:41 it says "can't load .core for different runtime, sorry". I guess I can rebuild the core file, no idea how to do it however. 00:57:59 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2CC32.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:18 *laynor* is a retard and didn't update SBCL_HOME 01:01:47 lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:02:39 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:23 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:26 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:16:48 hmm, can you tell me one of the hostnames to which sql.z.xach.com resolves? 01:17:05 *Xach* gets e.g. dfw3 and jfk1 01:20:53 Xach: I get d3u7....cloudfront.net. 01:21:20 d3u7pqyuhnthu9.ewr2.cloudfront.net here. 01:21:50 rtoym: what's the middle bit? should be an airport code. 01:21:50 ... And my first instinct is to see if it's base64-encoded. 01:21:58 I get the same d3u7, but iad2.cloudfront.com 01:22:10 thanks. 01:25:32 (Airport code? Really?) 01:26:35 Looks like it. 01:26:51 Seems an odd naming scheme. 01:27:07 I'd really like to see what a foreigner gets. 01:27:15 *Xach* prods the #lisp foreigners 01:28:08 retupmoca [~andy@adsl-75-40-249-52.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:27 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:09 Define "foreigner". 01:31:19 "Not USAian". 01:31:28 That's a wide net you're casting. 01:31:54 asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.214] has joined #lisp 01:32:03 You know who you are. 01:32:11 Should we exclude "America's Hat" as well? 01:32:49 America's Hat? 01:33:09 "Canada: Leading the world in being just north of the United States"? 01:33:19 Heh. 01:34:04 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:25 Clearly, I have enough alcohol in me to let the reigns slip on my sense of humour. 01:36:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:36:54 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:00 ams1 01:38:17 Hm. 01:38:21 huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:38:23 Amsterdam Schiphol. 01:39:30 Seems to be airport codes, alright. 01:39:57 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:40:01 Though lhr would've made more sense. 01:41:54 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 01:44:04 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-46-79.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:46:26 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-13-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:28 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@z93l28.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:18 *laynor* wants a world where he doesn't need ffi and everything is just lisp 01:58:45 laynor: I know how to create such a world, but it'd take a lot of work. 01:58:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:28 nyef: eh... goddamn lisp machines deserved to win :( how would you start? 01:59:56 I'd start by taking SBCL and making a minimal core file that could run on a bare x86. 02:01:12 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:01:48 On-x86-metal Common Lisp? 02:01:55 Isn't that what Movitz is aiming for? 02:02:03 I called it "SBCL-os", but yeah. 02:02:04 bmac [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has joined #lisp 02:02:14 I find the compiler in Movitz lacking. 02:02:29 (Of course, these days I know where some of the problems with the compiler in SBCL are.) 02:02:56 *Odin-* shrugs. 02:03:19 Running SBCL on the metal sounds interesting, but it'll need a bunch of support stuff to be useful. 02:03:47 I got the impression building that kind of thing was the main idea behind Movitz. 02:04:02 Yeah, but I got as far as demand-loading core pages. 02:04:31 Really, though, OS kernels aren't that interesting, it's the applications that are interesting. 02:04:50 We might as well take the GNU project approach and create an all-lisp -userland- on an existing kernel. 02:04:54 Indeed. 02:05:01 CLix? 02:05:13 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:14 (Seeing as how POSIX rules the land nowadays.) 02:05:23 There have been various names for the idea over the years. 02:06:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:04 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:13 Big question, as I'd see it, though: If you're doing a LispOS, are you going to go full-out and build a Lisp Machine inspired system with an entirely new user interface? 02:07:46 That's rather a userland question, isn't it? 02:07:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:17 Which leads to the "we have X and CLX, we should use them" argument. 02:08:23 nyef: Yes. I thought that was where we were at? :) 02:08:41 Also leads to CLIM, or various other UI toolkits. 02:09:30 *Odin-* was thinking about it from the other way around. 02:09:54 Hosting X or POSIXy environments from within CL. 8) 02:10:33 ... I know how to do UML, but with an SBCL process in the place of the linux kernel. 02:10:48 when you reach the place we are now though, there's no poetry anymore ^^; 02:11:43 but still I can get some work done, so I can't complain :) 02:11:45 Bah, all it takes is resources. Those can be leeched from somewhere! :p 02:13:08 They can, can they? 02:13:14 Good luck with that. 02:13:16 by the way, how is clim? I heard very discordant opinions about it. 02:13:29 I have mixed feelings about CLIM, actually. 02:13:38 But unmixed feelings about McCLIM. :-/ 02:13:52 lol, what's so bad about it? 02:14:44 The first obvious problem is actually the licensing terms. 02:14:54 But skip that, as it inevitably leads to a flamewar. 02:15:17 The project appears to have no release policy, or a no-release policy. 02:15:26 Too many dependencies. 02:15:32 Can only reliably be installed via clbuild. 02:15:34 And so on. 02:15:47 mh, I see. the license is lgpl? 02:15:57 ISTR that to be the case. 02:16:00 nyef: We will bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old! 02:16:14 Without Franz's clarifications? 02:16:37 I forget. Not that the LLGPL is much better. 02:17:00 *nyef* sighs. 02:17:21 Two tries at using this bloody post-receive-hook, two failures. :-/ 02:17:41 bleah, hate the legalese in licenses 02:17:53 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:09 Somewhere on my hard drive I have my own CLIM implementation project that I've given up on at least twice. 02:19:33 I tried to look at clim for 1 or 2 days years ago and it really looked awkward coming from the few qt/gtk I ever did 02:20:00 *nyef* actually always found UI toolkits to be awkward. 02:20:16 VCL wasn't very awkward 02:20:56 as for "use an existing kernel", I recommend L4 02:21:32 *nyef* will stick with Linux for now. 02:22:58 Okay, now that I've had three failures I can see what's going wrong. 02:23:22 Time to let that sink in for a bit before I try to fix it. 02:24:13 nyef: L4/Linux? :D 02:24:49 have all the power of linux and the hierarchical address space of L4? :D 02:25:36 p_l: your system is running L4? 02:26:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:26:47 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:24 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:58 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:37:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:45 laynor: my current one, not, but it can be rectified 02:39:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:58 i remember reading interesting stuff about it, but don't know what would be the advantages for normal system usage 02:42:48 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:44:35 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:45:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:00 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:46:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:24 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:49:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:09 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 02:53:14 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:53:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:18 laynor: it depends on what you build on top of it 02:54:24 L4 itself is very simple 02:54:58 I know that the current effort in Hurd is based mostly on L4's design, adapted for their particular architecture 02:55:02 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:55:17 s/particular/peculiar/? 02:55:36 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:43 Did they ever figure out how to debug the Hurd, or is it still completely insane? 02:56:20 nyef: dunno, I consider the project itself to be mad and badly designed 02:56:42 rjcks [~richard@124.225.77.23] has joined #lisp 02:57:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:46 p_l: Compared to what? 02:58:54 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:55 hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:59:07 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:40 -!- Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:59:53 plage: to what API they supposedly support 03:00:36 also, it has various parts of Plan9, except without the simplicity and extendability, but which much more complex implementation :P 03:00:38 p_l: I meant, do you have a better design in mind, existing or imagined. 03:01:22 plage: a mix of Spring and Plan9 03:02:06 both are quite similar systems despite being on two extreme borders of design in some places 03:04:01 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@125.236.55.34] has joined #lisp 03:04:20 Spring also avoided the issue of "slow" RPC 03:04:56 (though bits of it won't work on most architectures, as some IPC paths were based on SPARC calling sequence) 03:06:18 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:09:12 -!- davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:14:09 pnq [asdf@AC829DD9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:06 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:18:39 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:56 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:49 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.188] has joined #lisp 03:40:21 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has joined #lisp 03:40:32 Plan9 has total network transparency and orthogonal API, Spring had more complex API and more microkernel-style internals 03:56:16 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:08 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:04:29 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:57 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:31 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:08:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:22 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 04:24:29 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 04:26:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:28 sykopomp [~user@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:01 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:45 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:36:40 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.188] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:41:54 maden [~maden@dsl-152-18.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:44:04 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:50:25 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-36-221.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-93-250.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:50 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:07 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-36-221.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:31 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:47 -!- rme [rme@clozure-70A3CE26.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:07:47 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:08:08 pkhuong: Happen to be here? 05:17:34 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:42 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:36 pkhuong: Nevermind. :-) 05:29:47 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:55 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:34 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30:34 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30:37 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 05:31:47 Hah, reading SBCL referring to openprojects #lisp 05:31:52 SBCL comment 05:31:55 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 05:33:56 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 05:40:03 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:42:17 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:15 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:02 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:50:23 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:50 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@z93l28.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:57:06 kitten of death found. SBCL on windows, (load :asdf-install) dies quite quickly 05:57:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:58:03 doubt anyone is interested, but this was the error: ; compiling (DEFMETHOD PERFORM ...)fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 3260: GC invariant lost, file "gencgc.c", line 860 05:58:15 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:07 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:01 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:13:07 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-152-18.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:27 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 06:19:32 Good afternoon! 06:19:37 bmac_ [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has joined #lisp 06:19:40 good afternoon 06:19:56 hi plage 06:20:16 What did I miss? 06:20:34 fe[nl]ix: Are you still thinking of coming to HCM? 06:22:39 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 -!- bmac [~bmac@72.93.252.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:26:53 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:23 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:04 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:36:03 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37:08 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:41 -!- rjcks [~richard@124.225.77.23] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:41:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:41:30 -!- pnq [asdf@AC829DD9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:31 plage: yes. I'll let you know soon 06:47:26 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 06:48:11 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:19 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:48:58 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:52:10 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:53:32 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@125.236.55.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:33 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:31 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:28 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.61] has joined #lisp 07:03:55 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:04:41 -!- Intensity [lO65s0cHWg@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:11:33 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:07 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:23:47 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:19 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:28:29 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:26 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 07:47:55 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-pphwoupufaunovpt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:26 hmm, clisp, sbcl, and abcl all seem to dislike my use of in-package 07:50:13 doh, forgot the defpackage 07:50:15 nm 07:56:12 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-210.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:45 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:25 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.223] has joined #lisp 08:03:47 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:04:08 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 08:05:50 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-210.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 08:08:59 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has left #lisp 08:09:39 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-32-243.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:11:04 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-46-79.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:17 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:14:38 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:59 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.186.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 08:19:03 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:24:54 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:45 trebor_home [~user@dslb-088-069-136-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:49 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 08:37:13 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.244.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:37:40 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:41:08 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.244.110] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756b9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:53 -!- trebor_home [~user@dslb-088-069-136-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:42 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:51:06 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 08:57:43 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-194-147.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:16 plage [~user@113.165.167.129] has joined #lisp 08:58:32 Good afternoon! 08:59:55 -!- rntz [~rntz@c-98-248-34-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:00:32 It's good to be in a civilized country where the wireless network in the airport is free (no password) and reliable. 09:01:13 so that terrorists can use it? 09:01:30 precisely 09:01:44 I don't buy that standard excuse from our governments. 09:01:45 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:02:01 The same argument could be used for roads. 09:03:14 -!- leadnose [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has left #lisp 09:03:17 plage: let's close down roads! 09:04:12 ehu: yeah, for our protection. 09:04:31 heh. 09:04:34 sad 09:07:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 09:10:05 fe[nl]ix: Do you have a place to stay? 09:10:14 no 09:10:38 I can't offer you a guest room, so how much are you willing to spend? 09:10:55 It's low season, so prices are somewhat lower than usual. 09:11:27 phromo [phromo@c-68c6e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:12:49 50-60 for two days, perhaps 09:12:52 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:09 fe[nl]ix: For that you can get a very good room at the hotel where I stay. 09:13:44 fe[nl]ix: You can get a decent room for less than 40 USD in some places. 09:14:59 I pay 55 USD, which is a discount on the lowest price which is 60 USD, and that is a very nice room with a safe, nice shower, pool on the roof, etc. price includes a buffet breakfast. 09:15:25 Oh, for two days. 09:15:28 Sorry. 09:15:44 Au Lac at 35 USD/night would be good then. 09:16:35 At the corner of Pasteur and Nguyen Thi Minh Khai. 09:16:51 That sounds exorbitant for Vietnam. 09:17:05 But I guess if you don't speak the language you pay a penalty. 09:17:29 Nah, those prices are fixed. 09:17:55 But it depends on your requirements. 09:18:35 I kind of like being told at breakfast: "special very hot strong black Vietnamese coffee for you sir". 09:18:45 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-150-198-175.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:22 I see a bunch listed for $30ish, which is closer to what I would have expected. 09:24:14 Send the list to fe[nl]ix! 09:24:15 Which means you should be able to get $15 or so if you're in a budget mood. 09:24:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:05 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:26:21 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 09:27:23 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.61] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:29:53 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.61] has joined #lisp 09:34:53 -!- plage [~user@113.165.167.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:33 plage [~user@113.165.167.129] has joined #lisp 09:40:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:44 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:09 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:44:15 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:45 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52:47 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:55:12 plage: what's your hotel ? 09:56:09 fe[nl]ix: Liberty Central, 177, Le Thanh Ton (modulo an 'h' or two). 10:12:02 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 rjcks [~richard@124.225.241.124] has joined #lisp 10:20:44 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:23 -!- plage [~user@113.165.167.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:52:56 *Xach* hopes Sunday is Hacking Day 10:54:31 -!- phromo [phromo@c-68c6e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 10:59:48 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:10:36 Xach: Aye :-) 11:12:10 So I only marginally got to notice quicklisp. You probably told so many times already, but what does, or will, it do better than clbuild? 11:12:13 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:31 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:13:12 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:13:44 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:44 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:21:50 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:23 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-232-49.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:22:44 hello 11:25:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:58 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:26:49 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 11:27:12 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:33:30 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:41:10 <_8david> tcr: can't answer for Xach, but I'd personally see it as different solutions for different problems. clbuild is ostensibly about working with version control systems for me, because that's what I want/need to hack upstream stuf locally. Whereas quicklisp is about fetching Lisp software as reliably and quickly as possible -- think asdf-install, but done right. 11:41:49 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.136.240] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:44:21 <_8david> I'm personally curious to find out whether it will fare better than clbuild on what I see as clbuild's main problem, namely that it depends on a central maintainer to tend to the list of projects. 11:45:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-220.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:45:23 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:45:42 <_8david> At least with clbuild, users _can_ add their own projects, because the source is completely open, and ignoring the issue of regeneration of the dependencies file, adding a few lines is all you (can and) need to do to add a project anyway. With quicklisp, even if the source was available, it would seem that the benefit of the central mirror would get lost when you're attempting to adjust the project list locally. 11:51:47 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.136.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:35 _8david: I don't have a great answer for that. 11:57:05 tcr: clbuild requires a Unix shell and several different VCS programs. initializing requires checking out software from a variety of sources. quicklisp requires loading a single Common Lisp file to get started, and it aims to run on any CL on any operating system. 11:57:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57:38 quicklisp downloads projects over HTTP only. that was an issue for me at work when the firewall was more restrictive (it's not much of an issue now). 11:59:27 _8david: quicklisp works around the need-to-add-your-own-project-to-the-list issue a bit, though. 12:05:42 Well, maybe not. I never used clbuild that way, so I'm not sure if what quicklisp does is comparable. 12:06:43 Xach: interesting stuff :-) where can I get it? 12:07:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:07:52 <_8david> Example: How do I go from zero to "sbcl --eval '(hemlock:repl)'" with quicklisp, considering that quicklisp doesn't have prepl and hemlock? Check them out using git after all? 12:08:59 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:09:17 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:23 <_8david> Perhaps it's a bad example, because these are actually my own projects. Most people asking for projects do so regarding someone else's stuff. Perhaps dwim.hu would have been the better example. 12:10:20 _8david: Do you want to use those as gray-box substrate of your own project, or to have them as vcs-controlled projects you hack on while you hack on your own project? 12:11:41 <_8david> gray-box to get me started quickly at work, for example. (For cvs-controlled use cases, I wouldn't turn to quicklisp anyway.) 12:12:02 <_8david> waiting for all of hu.dwim to check out from darcs -- futile. 12:12:54 I don't know what'll work nicely for dwim.hu. I'm going to ignore them for now. 12:13:00 If they want their own world, they can have it. 12:13:29 laynor: nothing really working yet, but there's a plain demo if you want to try it. 12:14:03 -!- ri4a [~ri4a@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:15:12 ri4a [~ri4a@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has joined #lisp 12:15:28 <_8david> Perhaps we should publish a hu.dwim fork that doesn't need forks? :-) 12:15:52 I shudder every time I have to look at the code and the system files. 12:16:42 <_8david> what's wrong with the system files? 12:16:42 I haven't seen the reason, yet, to hold my nose and say "It's all worth it, because..." 12:17:09 Totally unlike any other system file from any other project. 12:19:03 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:05 _8david: are hu.dwim things available as tarball snapshots somewhere? 12:19:17 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.59] has joined #lisp 12:19:25 <_8david> It's worth it because it is the #1 rdbms access library. I'm not a fan of every low-level style decision they make (macro and read-macro use), but if you look at _high level_ style things (CLOS use, backend interface, abstractions that make sense) it is way better than clsql. 12:19:54 Anything is way better than clsql. 12:20:14 Being way better than postmodern (and why) would be more persuasive. 12:20:29 <_8david> And perec isn't just the only ORM for Lisp, it's fabulously good. 12:21:30 <_8david> If you need PostgreSQL only and don't want an ORM, no advantage. 12:21:34 <_8david> If you need DB independence (or want a good ORM anyway), it's the only solution available. 12:21:37 gabnet [~gabnet@43.232.91-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:55 -!- kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:41 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:11 Anyway, I'd like to figure out a sources.list.d-type mechanism for indexes. That will probably be after the initial release. 12:27:58 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:26 in the meantime, you can (will be able to) use a slightly asdf-install-like mechanism for loading local systems or remote tarball projects. 12:31:28 <_8david> I'll discuss with hlavaty whether we can make (somewhat inofficial) hu.dwim tarball snapshots available. At least our webserver is usually available and works, compared to hu.dwim... 12:33:13 -!- jbd [~user@67-198-71-121.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:02 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:43 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:57 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:16 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:47:10 -!- pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51:30 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-40-103.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:30 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:03 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:47 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:56:29 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:58:30 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-103-125.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:03:48 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:09:54 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:02 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:10:20 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:10:43 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:49 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-61-27.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:12:02 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:12:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:15 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:19:39 cheater99 [~cheater@ip-80-226-30-25.vodafone-net.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 hi 13:19:44 -!- bmac_ is now known as bmac 13:19:51 does anyone know where the name 'space cadet keyboard' comes from? 13:21:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-123-71.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:16 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-40-103.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:27:14 cheater99: its complexity? 13:27:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:55 any idea who might have given it that nickname? 13:30:01 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:30:13 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:31 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:59 lost in time 13:32:48 -!- rjcks [~richard@124.225.241.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:32:59 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:51 i'm not going with that 13:34:11 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:27 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:37 cheater99: You could also ask some of the people closer to its origin than hang out here. 13:35:38 G'morning all. 13:35:56 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:58 Xach: yeah, i was directed here but don't really know where to go with it 13:36:05 Xach: can you give me some ideas? 13:36:19 cheater99: You could email Guy Steele about it. 13:36:57 hmm good idea 13:37:32 cheater99: What makes you curious about it, though? 13:38:18 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:38:40 What's the way to see whether an flet declared dx was allocated on the stack or not? 13:38:52 If not, will sbcl emit the could-no-stack-allocate note? 13:39:10 I can't remember having that for functions 13:41:52 Also can anyone educate me on how sbcl compiles apply? 13:42:04 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:42:24 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 it transforms it to m-v-call? 13:46:31 Xach: i'm just interested where the name came from. since it's a fairly important thing in computer history, it's surprising the source of the name isn't known. that got me fairly curious. 13:46:46 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:13 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:56:18 -!- huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:18 huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:06:05 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:05 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:57 I'll ask tomorrow 14:11:24 Tom Knight's son works here 14:12:12 he's right over --> there 14:12:33 My dad's a farmer, but you couldn't ask me about when to plant corn and expect a useful answer... 14:13:06 uh, I would if you had followed in his footsteps 14:13:11 Xach: (lisppaste seems not to be working): here's my sunday hack: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111640 14:13:35 dlowe: By studying biology? 14:14:15 tcr: Nice. Looks like a nice DESCRIBE-OBJECT method waiting to happen. 14:14:16 Xach: a little hostile today? 14:14:28 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:14:46 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:54 dlowe: Nope. I don't think being Tom Knight's son implies knowing why the space cadet keyboard is called the space cadet keyboard. 14:15:05 As awesome as being Tom Knight's son is. 14:15:19 Xach: Not a bad idea, unfortunately it takes SAPs as input. I'd really like to have typed pointers but I heard bad things about sb-alien :-) 14:15:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:16:04 Xach: I understood dlowe to ask the son to ask his father. (Assuming TK's still alive) 14:16:06 tcr: Box the SAPs yourself? 14:16:06 It doesn't. and yes, it seems awesome. However, sometimes to find things out, you try to go one step closer to the source. Like finding the definition of recursion 14:17:30 "Recursion: See recursion. See also tail recursion." 14:17:32 (if you are Douglas Hofstadter, you already know. Otherwise, you find the person next to you closer to Hofstadter and ask them.) 14:19:01 Xach: unless he can get to the source or some notes 14:20:23 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:24:49 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:17 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:26:17 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:27:20 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-144-210-60.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:49 lispm [~lispm@d220098.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:45 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:53 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-65.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:39:05 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:39:33 -!- lispm [~lispm@d220098.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:56 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:42:39 -!- ri4a [~ri4a@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:44:00 ri4a [~ri4a@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has joined #lisp 14:44:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:45:13 "Hygienic macro expansion is one of the crown jewels of Scheme, but to this day nobody understands just exactly what it is." 14:45:50 where ? 14:47:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 fe[nl]ix: where what? 14:48:11 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:54 ri4a: whoa, ipv6 in the wild? 14:49:54 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-75-1-17.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:00 mathrick: where did you find that quote ? 14:51:55 fe[nl]ix: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/ch0nl/a_semantics_for_a_language_of_hygienic_macros_pdf/ 14:52:05 here, I guess it makes sense to have it in /r/lisp as well 14:53:33 mathrick: not so hard to get, and for some reason, *especially* on IRC 14:54:16 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:45 lusory [~bart@bb220-255-86-7.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:54:46 p_l: I'm more amazed that someone is actually using it 14:54:52 the adoption is ridiculously slow 14:54:59 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@118.143.5.5] has joined #lisp 14:55:16 Comcast has started an IPv6 beta program 14:55:27 it'd be very nice if I could get an ipv6 address and actually use it for something 14:55:34 so I'll be using it fairly soon 14:56:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:56:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:42 dlowe: the problem for me is that almost nothing is accessible over ipv6, and all the tunnelling methods are horribly confusing 14:56:44 mathrick, there's a chicken-and-egg problem here 14:56:48 I know! 14:57:00 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:17 mathrick: iirc NTT is introducing native v6 connectivity on new links in Japan 14:57:24 IPv6 adoption will be driven by China and India as they grow richer, not by the US. 14:57:34 there's also a project that uses Porn for v6 adoption 14:57:36 carlocci [~nes@93.37.215.101] has joined #lisp 14:57:43 *mathrick* wasn't thinking about the US much, actually 14:57:47 p_l: :) 14:57:52 p_l: it's old, so old that it shut down already in fact 14:58:08 Mm. I bet China really loves the idea of having unique addresses for every device :/ 14:58:15 Pity - it sounded like the best way to get people interested :D 14:58:17 *Fare* releases ASDF 2.102, 2.002 14:58:25 dlowe: I'd really like not being behind a NAT 14:58:33 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:38 I've had several connections so far, and every single one has been NAT'd 14:58:39 can anyone try ASDF 2.002 with the latest clisp on windows? 14:58:44 (unofficial Internet traffic ranking: 1. Spam 2. Porn 3. idiots) 14:58:45 mathrick: any reason other than latency? 14:58:52 I guess I'll die without ever having an IPv4 address 14:59:01 dlowe: umm, yes? Connectivity? 14:59:19 dlowe: internet was designed without NAT in mind, so quite a lot gets broken... 14:59:22 p_l: in synch with human communication in general 14:59:30 p_l: you mean FTP 14:59:35 no 14:59:38 Fare: except that Spam I think got blown out of proportion 14:59:42 port forwarding still works, I believe 14:59:48 NAT is like a one-way mirror 14:59:53 dlowe: NAT makes basically any nice stuff stop working 14:59:57 dlowe: assuming you control the NAT, which I don't 14:59:59 multicast etc. 15:00:03 p_l: 4. off-topic 15:00:03 I mean, you'd want a firewall anyway 15:00:20 and port forwarding won't help since you'll end up behind *few layers* of NAT 15:00:21 p_l: you mean IRL there are no advertisement, beggars, unsolicited requests, etc.? 15:00:31 p_l: multicast has never been supported by backbone routers anyway 15:00:34 Fare: in my opinion, the ratio is much lower 15:00:39 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 15:00:53 mathrick: ah, well. that is a problem. they're just as likely to firewall off everything fun anyway. 15:01:10 dlowe: afaik it is currently supported properly, especially on new nets 15:01:29 IMHO, you are too used to the surrounding propaganda to evaluate just how awful it is. Most you either filter out or let in, without noticing. 15:01:51 so instead of having to beg for a port forwarding entry, you'll have to beg for a port exception entry for your address 15:02:15 dlowe: actually, not so much. There's some filtering of P2P going on, but that's easy to sidestep with encrypted packets, everything else works normally 15:02:53 mathrick: bad security :) default deny should always be the outward-facing policy 15:03:00 what? 15:03:08 I don't think you understand what I'm talking about 15:03:17 why'd my ISP default to denying traffic? 15:03:34 oh. duh. nvm. 15:03:46 *dlowe* was thinking of corporate firewalls. :p 15:04:13 I mean, I'm NAT'd at comcast, but I get around that with a ddns 15:04:29 how'd that help? 15:04:39 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:04:52 dlowe: I think you mean you have a dynamic IP, and aren't actually behind a NAT 15:05:31 *dlowe* retreats and gets more coffee. 15:06:24 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:06:56 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:06:57 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:32 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:28:33 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:57 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:47 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@43.232.91-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:34:31 delYsid` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 sunwukon` [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-222-242.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:48 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:51 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36:53 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:38:01 -!- sunwukon` [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 15:38:27 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:19 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:10 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 15:49:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:00 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:54:33 how do you compile in bordeaux-threads into clisp ? 15:54:47 Since when did clisp support threads? 15:55:02 it even fails with posix-threds 15:55:17 and flavor too 15:55:24 nyef: since july 2009, experimentally 15:55:31 Ooh. 15:55:44 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 i tried to build zthreads it worked, but cthreds failed with dataexchange here 15:55:48 http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/mt.html 15:56:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:56:38 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:06 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:57:15 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:57:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:57:52 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:16 Heh. No memory barriers! 15:59:32 2.48 is supposed to be compiled with threading 16:00:19 -!- benny [~user@i577A1E50.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:27 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2029B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:58 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 16:06:15 Hrm. I should set up a 32-bit chroot on this box for testing x86 sbcl builds. 16:06:49 why chroot? 16:07:07 Simplest thing that I know I can do. 16:07:11 Got a better idea? 16:07:25 (Yes, it is a multilib system, if that helps.) 16:07:57 i think it should just work, without chroot 16:08:31 a debian chroot is simple to setup 16:09:23 Google "debian 32-bit chroot" finds me this: http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_apps_in_a_32-bit_chroot_in_AMD64_Debian_system 16:09:41 on the other hand, for my next chroot, I'd like to dabble with NixOS. 16:10:05 What sort of "just work" do you expect? 16:10:37 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:02 nyef: you set SBCL_ARCH to x86 before building, build it, run it 16:11:07 its not relly that Sbcl itself will have a problem it would be all the libs that it expects to use 16:11:18 +? 16:11:28 what, libc? 16:11:43 It's more that it'll keep picking the wrong C compiler options. 16:11:51 at runtime i was thinking.. like librpce 16:12:05 Try to build a 32-bit binary with a 64-bit compiler, stuff like that. 16:12:58 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:13:11 ah yeah unless someone gone over the compiler processes with a fine tooth comb and ech build method.. i see 16:13:35 it better ust io chroot for peace of mind 16:14:41 it would still be good if someone went over the build process and made sbcl .so-able 16:14:41 nyef: i actually haven't tried building on x86_64 sbcl-x86, but if build scripts can't build x86 binary, it should be fixed 16:15:02 its better just to chroot for peace of mind .. but for testing the build system for building 32 or 64 from 64.. makes sensew 16:16:21 benny [~user@i577A1A21.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:36 -!- inklesspen [~jon@inklesspen.com] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 16:19:46 inklesspen [~jon@inklesspen.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:41 And the verdict is... wrong compiler options when building the runtime. 16:24:53 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:09 darwin can build both, so it shouldn't be hard to copy related bits from Config.x86*-darwin 16:27:52 interesting, all other Config files have x86-64, except Config.x86_64-linux 16:28:48 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 16:29:31 Probably because it's based on the output from uname? 16:31:14 i don't think so: here is a bit from make-config.sh: if [ $sbcl_arch = "x86-64" ]; then link_or_copy Config.x86_64-linux Config else link_or_copy Config.$sbcl_arch-linux Config 16:31:35 Hrm. 16:31:37 Dunno then. 16:32:31 other x86-64 on linux files have a dash 16:32:43 like x86-64-linux-os.c 16:38:55 nyef: export CFLAGS="-m32" ? 16:41:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:16 Makefile overrides environmental CFLAGS. 16:42:26 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 So not my problem anyway. 16:43:35 <_3b> hmm, is it faster to make a new ub32 array initialized to 0 than to reset an existing one to 0 in sbcl? (using arrays length ~12 or so) 16:44:32 i'd bet on FILL with 0 16:44:34 Over time, I'd expect it to be faster to clear the array, largely due to the GC cost. 16:44:36 fiveop [~fiveop@g229238039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:16 The GC has to clear the pages anyway, plus you have allocation overhead, plus if you overflow an alloc region..., plus there's the extra garbage to manage, plus... 16:45:19 <_3b> fill was my guess too 16:45:42 Oh, and relying on the array initial contents to be 0 isn't portable unless you set an initial element... which uses FILL anyway. 16:45:53 <_3b> yeah, using :initial-contents 16:46:00 <_3b> :initial-element i mean 16:46:09 <_3b> ok, so something odd is happeneing then 16:48:46 Again, this is over time. With short timescales, the allocation might be a win. 16:48:49 <_3b> is SB-KERNEL:UB32-BASH-FILL the expected fast path for FILL? 16:50:12 looks like it 16:55:35 <_3b> would sbcl stack allocate an array created by (loop for foo = (make-array ...)) without me telling it to? 16:58:46 <_3b> or maybe it is just figureing out that i'm not using the output and deleting all my code or something :) 16:59:05 that it can do 16:59:35 and it can be used to pace CCL guys 17:00:44 maybe your loop isn't even looping :) 17:01:05 <_3b> well, it takes a second or so, so i assume it loops :p 17:01:15 <_3b> 3-4 if i clear the array 17:01:31 paste your code? 17:02:04 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 17:02:08 <_3b> it's sekrit icfp stuff :p 17:04:06 try to declare your vector type for FILL 17:04:08 <_3b> ah, stupid bugs... missing some () in a let, then missing a * from a let* :p 17:04:33 <_3b> all coincidentally aranged to let it actually compile but not actually do anything useful 17:05:45 so, how FILL fares now? 17:05:58 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:37 <_3b> rest is slow enough tat it doesn't matter too much now :p 17:07:52 <_3b> (fill was faster in isolated tests though) 17:11:59 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 Edward_ [edward@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:18:55 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@118.143.5.5] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 17:26:22 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:40 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 17:30:30 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:30:48 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read 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[~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:14 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-220.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:01 laynor` [~user@93.107.66.88] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:31 -!- laynor [~user@93.107.254.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:49 this asdf source is all screwed up 20:07:12 debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread #: Maximum error nesting depth exceeded 20:07:29 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-178-27-24.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: happy father's day] 20:07:31 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-32-243.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:29 argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:37 i had to complete parentheses in load-asdf-install.lisp 20:08:42 and one other file 20:08:54 that is pretty weak 20:09:23 no, there was an extra parenthese 20:09:26 that is pretty weak 20:09:37 zophy: You mean ASDF-Install, or ASDF? 20:09:43 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-13-231.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:12:14 ASDF-install 20:12:23 redline6561 [~yaaic@m3d5e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:33 zophy: Where'd you get the source from? 20:12:44 sbcl.org 20:13:10 now i get --> Help! 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded. 20:13:12 geez 20:13:19 -!- bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:55 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf-install/asdf-install_latest.tar.gz 20:14:12 ok, that is where i got this cheese 20:14:22 zophy: sbcl comes with its own asdf-install 20:14:34 zophy: all you need to do is (require :asdf-install) 20:14:39 ah 20:15:47 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:40 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:19:07 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-194-147.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:25 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:37 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-149.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:09 argiopeweb [~elliot@184.91.42.66] has joined #lisp 20:26:14 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:31 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:47 bandu [~coyotama@coyotama-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:49 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:06 -!- bandu is now known as ko`otli 20:31:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:49 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:33:19 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 20:35:34 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:44 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:59 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:40 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-20-172.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:37 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:50:47 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA226FD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:56 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:55:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-99-141.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:00 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:36 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:44 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:57:16 asarch [~asarch@187.132.132.196] has joined #lisp 21:00:19 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:59 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 21:02:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:02 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:10:21 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:07 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:47 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.241] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 21:20:23 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:50 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:22:10 Kernel_Panic [~kvirc@dslb-088-065-006-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:55 -!- Kernel_Panic [~kvirc@dslb-088-065-006-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:22:58 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-070-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:11 maden [~maden@dsl-157-149.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:26:28 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:28:46 rvirding [~chatzilla@h29n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:51 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:30:09 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:36 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:59 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:12 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:57 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:33:59 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:13 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:34:25 http://paste.lisp.org/+2E5H 21:34:41 why oh why can't i compile lift ? 21:35:33 you declare assertion as ignorable twice 21:35:53 it also appears twice in let 21:36:13 there's a bug, possibly due to lack of macro hygiene 21:36:17 it appears twice in the previous function 21:36:55 i can't imagine that there would be a bug 21:37:04 ShKoDrAnI [~ardit24@cpe-95-107-197-219.wifi.tring.al] has joined #lisp 21:37:09 -!- ShKoDrAnI [~ardit24@cpe-95-107-197-219.wifi.tring.al] has left #lisp 21:37:25 yet there is 21:37:39 reality called, it wants your imagination back 21:38:08 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:39:08 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:53 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:40:23 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:59 any clisp/windows user? 21:41:04 or windows user at all? 21:44:08 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:44:38 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:45:57 lispm [~lispm@d220098.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 stis 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[~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:34:27 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:34:50 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:34:53 pnq [~asdf@AC81C5B7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:06 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:35:26 noodman [~noodman@host86-137-200-184.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:31 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bxsbkccfmcghelwk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:15 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:36:57 hey beginner at Lisp 22:37:06 is there a good IDE for Lisp? 22:37:37 try emacs 22:38:29 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:38:31 yeah i've used emacs before... 22:38:42 i meant something with like debugger etc.. 22:38:47 like eclipse.. 22:38:55 or does one not exist? 22:39:34 <_3b> slime (and emacs mode) is the best option 22:39:37 <_3b> *an emacs mode 22:40:35 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:52 <_3b> if you are allergic to emacs, there are similar things for vim and eclipse, but there are less actively developed and have fewer users, so less likely to be able to get help with them as easily 22:41:28 noodman: or you can try lispworks personal and allegro express 22:41:28 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:01 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:42:17 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:42:56 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ddxzefrtnackcvbk] has joined #lisp 22:43:55 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:45:09 noodman, there's CCL-IDE or so if you run a Mac 22:45:21 LispWorks and Allegro have IDEs, too. 22:47:07 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:42 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 22:52:50 zo [~zo@sd-15598.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 Sudi [~chatzilla@g228251072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:06 -!- zo [~zo@sd-15598.dedibox.fr] has left #lisp 22:54:35 -!- Sudi [~chatzilla@g228251072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 22:55:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756b9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:53 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:40 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:07:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:08:11 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:11:21 davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has joined #lisp 23:14:29 -!- noodman [~noodman@host86-137-200-184.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:00 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-192-101.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:44 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:24:45 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:27:25 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h29n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:29:42 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:30:27 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:31:38 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:14 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.121] has joined #lisp 23:33:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:33:53 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:34:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:18 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:35:21 Good morning! 23:38:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-194-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:34 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:21 konr [~user@luluzinha.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 23:45:29 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:47:24 <_3b> am i missing something here, or is sbcl getting confused? http://paste.lisp.org/+2E5L 23:47:33 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:48:52 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:49:49 <_3b> ouch, that was costing me a 3x slowdown i think 23:50:09 <_3b> 1.457 seconds of real time -> 0.498 seconds of real time 23:50:39 sbcl is confused indeed 23:50:55 i below (length ...) should ensure that i is fixnum. 23:51:22 and the repeat is redundant, since you only iterate half as many times 23:51:36 <_3b> well, the REPEAT in the real code is smaller 23:51:56 <_3b> and was originally supposed to be what terminated the loop 23:52:09 you can also for i fixnum below ... 23:52:21 <_3b> only added the BELOW bits to let SBCL know they didn't grow arbitrarily 23:52:34 -!- konr [~user@luluzinha.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:38 <_3b> that counts as a type declaration, which SBCL verifies, so not what i want 23:52:48 depends on your optimization level 23:53:02 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:02 *_3b* doesn't use safety 0 :p 23:53:21 if you're into second-splitting, you want to play with optimization levels. 23:53:24 if not, you don't. 23:53:28 <_3b> (at least not in this stage of development) 23:53:53 not even locally? 23:53:59 <_3b> not usually 23:54:13 why do you complain about a second of runtime, then? 23:54:24 <_3b> i can usually get 90% of the beneefit of safety 0 with inlining 23:54:56 <_3b> with safety 0: 0.487 seconds of real time 23:55:34 <_3b> with safety 0 and the repeat first: 1.450 seconds of real time 23:56:21 <_3b> safety 0 with repeat first, and for i fixnum: 0.702 seconds of real time 23:56:49 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 23:58:09 -!- davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]