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I'll tell fe[nl]ix when he/she/it next speaks. 01:20:46 So, I'm currently thinking of some construct like (sb-kernel:memory-barrier :data-dependency), and if you don't want it on single-threaded systems then that's what we gave you #-sb-thread for. 01:21:07 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:15 -!- derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21:40 derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:03 huangjs` [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 01:43:19 pnq [asdf@AC81D262.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:50 please make it just no-op of #-sb-thread or something 01:50:52 No, because it's plausible to want to use a barrier even without sb-thread. 01:51:26 oh. hm, sure. I misunderstood your original statement 01:51:47 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53:54 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:56:05 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:59:38 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 01:59:43 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:01 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-24-203.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:01:51 lusory [~bart@bb219-75-1-17.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:03:49 (One simple scenario wherein one might want a barrier is a shared memory segment with either another lisp image or a C program. You don't need sb-thread if you're not sharing address spaces.) 02:03:58 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:04:03 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-lojrvsvmphvxqdld] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:04:07 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bxsbkccfmcghelwk] has joined #lisp 02:05:31 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:19 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:33 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:54 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:11:30 asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.162] has joined #lisp 02:19:01 -!- Draggor1 is now known as Draggor 02:23:37 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:26 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:48 sunwukon` [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 02:32:47 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:56 -!- huangjs` [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:23 yeah, one could make threads through crazy use of mmap 02:38:25 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:29 greetings 02:38:48 fusss: greetings 02:38:50 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.141.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:38:58 heya p_l 02:40:31 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-195-22.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:37 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:45:11 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:24 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@dhcp184-48-202-238.harv.dal.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 02:47:04 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:44 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:57:21 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:24 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.188] has joined #lisp 03:02:28 anyone have a win32 build of the bleeding-edge threaded sbcl stuff that just came out? :-) 03:04:23 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 03:05:48 nope, but it would be wonderful to hear about it being stable :D 03:12:40 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@75.44.220.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:15:12 fusss: you mentioned using FastCGI for some of the advertising work. What library did you use (or wrote)? 03:16:54 never really in any useful capacity, and it's been scraped now, replaced with lua glue and lighty 03:17:14 stick to load-balancing hunchentoot if you want performance 03:19:23 I was thinking of modding hunchentoot a little to use threadpool :D 03:19:30 and IOlib 03:19:50 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:18 patched ht as well, made it event-driven, but it was just a feel good thing with negligible improvement. nothing tops load-balancing, ime 03:22:17 true, I just want to avoid thread init costs 03:22:41 maybe make a small scale variant of heroku.com that could be deployed for individual apps 03:23:15 -!- Dodek [dodek@83.1.166.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:14 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 03:27:20 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has joined #lisp 03:27:54 if you're bored, i can give you ideas of what to do, wrt server programming :-) 03:28:22 right now I'm more in need of paid work... lest I fall into depression (again) 03:31:23 ... i saw a CL job come up on planet lisp i think 03:31:26 ... just the one 03:32:15 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-93-250.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:49 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:35:07 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:35:27 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-221-219.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:37:06 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:37 toast`: again, USA 03:37:45 ? 03:37:57 let's say paperwork for that would gobble the time I have 03:38:23 ah, gotcha 03:38:29 sorry to hear 03:38:37 yeah, our system sucks. 03:39:05 disumu [~disumu@p579F89D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:19 toast`: and my biggest misgivings start with law in USA :/ 03:41:39 -!- 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[~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 04:46:55 hello beslyrus 04:49:58 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:24 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:53 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:01:05 WOG [~OsamaBinW@75.44.220.39] has joined #lisp 05:05:37 -!- sunwukon` [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 05:05:46 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:06:47 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 05:06:52 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 05:07:53 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 05:09:56 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 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-!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:02 -!- pnq [asdf@AC81D262.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:53 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:06 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 07:10:12 Good afternoon! 07:12:10 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:13:48 hi plage 07:13:48 fe[nl]ix, memo from froydnj: directory listing enabled for http://method-combination.net/lisp/files/ have at it 07:14:59 froydnj: thanks 07:15:14 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-24-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:16:45 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-81-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:27:32 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 07:32:22 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75732a.pool.mediaWays.net] 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or three... 12:44:32 blog about them :) 12:46:39 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.170] has joined #lisp 12:48:31 some groups successfully use a "pledge" system 12:50:39 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.67] has joined #lisp 12:57:26 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-93-250.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:19 lemoinem [~swoog@127-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:06 though I suspect we might need a bigger, centralised community for that 13:05:52 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-246.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:09:39 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81911e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:43 hi 13:10:03 how do I create a hash table with case insensitive strings? 13:10:17 (make-hashtable :test #'equalp) 13:10:37 thx 13:10:45 why not STRING-EQUAL ? 13:11:06 clhs m-h-t 13:11:06 MAKE-HASH-TABLE: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_has.htm 13:12:13 wakeup: the test supported by standard hash tables is limited 13:12:46 -!- Devon [~devon@scooby-doo.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:01 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:19:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-246.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:12 hi, I have sbcl running on a terminal, creating a swank server this way: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111602 . Everything works, except for the fact that sometimes slime hangs until I open the terminal window and press Return. Any idea what's wrong? 13:25:31 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 WHats the simplest way to check wether a list contains a symbol? 13:29:24 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:30:08 wakeup: member? 13:30:42 wakeup: find-if #'symbolp 13:31:18 ah, misunderstood the question 13:31:18 lol 13:31:19 (some #'symbolp ...) 13:31:59 member seems to work fine for me :) 13:32:28 ah, then I didn't misunderstand, you were looking for a specific symbol :-) 13:32:35 yes 13:32:40 ^^ 13:32:41 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:35:56 find-if won't do 13:41:02 adeht: I beg to differ 13:41:12 (find-if (lambda (x) (eql x 'a)) '(b c a d)) 13:41:14 you ca pass #'(lambda (x) (eq x 'yoursymbol)) as predicate 13:41:15 ahah 13:41:23 same for some 13:42:37 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:54 fe[nl]ix: I meant find-if #'symbolp to determine if there's a symbol in a list 13:44:17 it won't find NIL 13:45:10 stassats: or would it find NIL and return it? ^^; 13:46:41 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:59 *_3b* thinks INTEGER-LENGTH should take an optional radix argument :p 13:49:47 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:02 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81911e.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 13:52:13 funny: (find-if #'symbolp '(1 2 3 nil b 5)) => NIL 13:52:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53:24 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:53:59 HG` [~HG@xdslev038.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:41 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:08 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-148-27-217.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:12 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-150-198-175.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:37 the same goes for (find-if (lambda (x) (eql x 'nil)) ...) ;) 14:03:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-93-250.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:41 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:05:05 luckily, there's POSITION 14:05:06 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:05:29 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 14:08:07 there's also member-if 14:10:39 josemanuel [~josemanue@168.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:16:59 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:20:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:25 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:23:52 mhhm, position is for sequences while member-if is only for lists right? 14:24:11 right 14:25:04 I,m getting the hang of cl, slowly, but I'm getting there :-) 14:31:59 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has left #lisp 14:35:19 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:37:01 SockPupMex [~SockPupMe@189.214.151.190.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 14:37:04 hi 14:37:28 what are the the advantages to using lisp? 14:37:44 it's hip and cool 14:37:59 other than that? 14:38:05 ok 14:38:09 all the chicks! 14:38:17 anything else doesn't matter 14:38:27 well I am sure after a long hard day of lisp programming, or even during, there is one thing on your mind...... 14:38:34 Black Vaginas! 14:38:36 http://www.blackvaginafinder.com/ 14:38:46 There is only one thing to remember about black vaginas 14:38:58 negro women have vitamin d metabolism issues 14:39:07 so they suffer more from pussy stank and rot 14:39:11 and yeast infections 14:39:31 so before committing beastialty like that one LISP programmer from napoleon dynamite 14:39:36 check out our website 14:39:46 c h i m p o u t . c o m / f o r u m 14:40:47 -!- SockPupMex [~SockPupMe@189.214.151.190.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 14:44:19 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:45 @_@ 14:54:55 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:58 well, that was... unusual. 14:55:10 Not really 14:55:14 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:55:51 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-236-194.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:06 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-47-221.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:16 strange he was talking about lisp at first. Immediate spam would have felt normal 14:56:18 ^^; 14:58:31 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-94.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:41 :( 15:04:56 ccl 64bit can't load 32bit dlls :( 15:05:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05:26 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-236-194.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [K-Lined] 15:05:27 naturally 15:05:51 stassats: why naturally? I'm kind of ignorant in this respect 15:06:57 and i'm not the best one to explain this 15:07:07 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:17 G'morning all. 15:07:36 hi nyef 15:07:37 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:07:47 *laynor* is googling about it 15:09:21 My current thought on barriers is (defmacro sb-kernel:memory-barrier ((type) &optional form) (declare (type (member :general :read :write :data-dependency) type)) ...) 15:09:28 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-61-27.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:02 form? 15:12:11 and why only one type? 15:12:22 Yeah, it evaluates the form before the barrier, then returns it. 15:12:30 (Well, returns its value.) 15:12:51 It's for those cases when you need to compute something, then have a barrier, then return what you've computed. 15:13:02 prog1? 15:13:24 Multiple-value-prog1, but yeah. 15:13:38 (You don't use prog1 with PRINT, for example.) 15:13:42 Yeah it's beyond me why they introduced another form for that 15:13:55 laynor: most operating systems don't allow for mixing different architectures in one binary... 15:14:01 micro-opt? 15:14:08 Yeah, that's about it. 15:14:24 Or, more accurately, they had prog1 long before they had multiple values. 15:14:40 sure but where would it have broken code? 15:14:51 sounds contrived :-) 15:15:21 You could contrive an example where using m-v-p1 would have broken something, I'm sure. 15:15:30 p_l: yeah, I was reading about it... Wondering if I can make a 64 bit build of qt and plplot on windows 15:15:39 laynor: you can 15:15:48 Probably a matter of either a branched control flow and m-v-b or just an m-v-l or m-v-c. 15:16:25 They probably introduced much worse incompatibilities in between :-) 15:16:32 I'm sure. 15:16:40 m-v-[bcl] are..? 15:16:48 clhs m-v-b 15:16:48 MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 15:16:55 clhs m-v-cl 15:16:55 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for m-v-cl. 15:16:57 It's also a matter of implementation efficiency, or perceived implementation efficiency. 15:17:06 clhs m-v-p1 15:17:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for m-v-p1. 15:17:08 ah, ok, it wasn't for me lol 15:17:08 clhs m-v-p 15:17:08 MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_mult_1.htm 15:17:59 p_l: going to search some information on how to do it 15:18:06 (Honestly, the original implementation was probably a hack, and they never went back and tidied it up before it got added to the standard.) 15:18:38 Or before it started getting adopted by other implementations. 15:25:06 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:28:54 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:29:12 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:05 I think I must be misunderstanding something about how require works. I have a file I'm editing in Emacs, using Slime. At the top are several require statements, then code that uses those packages. When I start a new session in Slime and try to compile the file, I get compilation errors saying those packages are not found. 15:30:24 But if I enter the (require 'foo) lines in the REPL then try compiling again, it works. 15:30:26 what's up? 15:33:49 REQUIRE is a function, and doesn't normally take effect at compile-time. 15:34:06 clhs eval-when 15:34:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 15:34:34 ah 15:34:36 okay 15:34:36 Try (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (require ...) (require ...) ...) 15:34:52 is that the appropriate way to solve this problem? 15:35:09 It is... an appropriate way to solve this problem. 15:35:42 It rather breaks down once you move to multi-file systems, but at that point the usual mechanisms for dealing with multiple files also deal with such dependecies. 15:35:50 ... And I forgot a #\n in there. 15:35:51 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 do "the usual mechanisms" also deal with single-file packages? 15:36:25 if so, perhaps I should read up on those. 15:36:49 blAckEn3d [~alex@79.117.193.77] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 hello, I need some help with cffi and kqueue on mac os x 15:37:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:43 I'm trying to write a simple module for kqueue in cl 15:37:51 I have this c file: http://pastebin.com/wDMWqSTE 15:38:03 and I'm trying to implement the same thing in cl 15:38:18 I have this cffi module for kqueue: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111605 15:38:27 and this bindings: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111606 15:38:57 I get no errors when running main, the file descriptros seem fine 15:39:09 but when I write to the file I'm monitoring 15:39:13 I don't get an event 15:39:41 any ideas what I'm doing wrong? 15:39:57 ... Doesn't iolib already have stuff for kqueues? 15:40:04 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:08 looking it p 15:40:48 seems nice 15:41:02 but I would still like to know what I'm doing wrong :) 15:43:20 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:02 Do you know you're entering your event-loop? Do you know that the kevent call in the event-loop isn't returning? 15:47:17 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-070-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:40 ... Do you know that your event-loop function doesn't have anything actually -loop- about it? 15:47:51 @nyef, yes, I know all that 15:48:11 So, if the kevent call isn't returning, the problem must be before it. 15:48:14 I was only testing, that's why there's no loop about it 15:48:34 I have some debug output before that 15:48:41 commented right now 15:48:49 it reaches the kevent call 15:50:05 blAckEn3d: EVFILT_READ is meant for sockets/pipes 15:50:29 @fe[nl]ix, thanks, what should I use? 15:50:41 btw, the c version is using EVFILT_READ and it seems to work 15:51:23 I am sufficiently unfamiliar with this to not see where it might be going wrong. 15:51:50 @nyef same here 15:55:52 I might double-check the structure definitions in the bindings, though. 15:56:07 (Grasping at straws here.) 15:56:28 @nyef thanks, I'll go over them again 15:57:42 I see no loop in the function "event-loop" 15:58:02 fe[nl]ix: Already mentioned. 15:58:11 there's no loop yet, I just wanted to see if the kevent call is working 15:58:19 and I was going to add the loop after that 16:00:07 -!- benny [~user@i577A1E13.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:24 blAckEn3d: the code in event-loop isn't checking if kqueue returned an event 16:03:18 @fe[nl]ix yeah, but shouldn't the call to kevent return when it gets an event and go on to the format? 16:05:58 it will also return when it gets an error 16:06:15 the code isn't passing the timeout argument to kevent 16:06:18 yeah, but I already check for an error in the wrapper 16:06:24 it\s optional 16:06:31 null-pointer by default 16:06:44 I'll implement the timespec struct 16:06:47 ah, ok 16:09:10 benny [~user@i577A1E50.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslev038.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:07 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 16:17:25 ok, I give it a limit of 5 seconds to block and it returns after 5 seconds but with 0 events, I'll debug it further 16:17:30 thanks for all the help 16:24:06 -!- blAckEn3d [~alex@79.117.193.77] has quit [Quit: blAckEn3d] 16:24:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:58 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:15 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.223] has joined #lisp 16:39:03 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-210.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:12 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:39 how do i make more stack for the clisp build ? 16:51:25 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:51:25 stack size is already unlimited here 16:51:40 but i get link-kit failure upon build 16:58:51 Fade [fade@coruscant.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:31 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 17:02:54 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:03:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:01 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:06:52 -!- derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:39 abstract [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:57 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:25:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:44 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@z93l28.static.ctm.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 17:27:56 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:28:34 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has joined #lisp 17:33:33 pnq [asdf@ACA2BAE6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 -!- Guest50039 is now known as pkhuong 17:35:09 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:36:45 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 17:37:19 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Moop.] 17:38:46 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:42:01 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:47 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:15 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:57 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 17:48:22 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.244.110] has joined #lisp 17:49:09 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:51:03 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:05 Hi! I'm a LISP newbie and have been trying to learn LISP for some time now. I was wondering if you could suggest some small LISP project that I could realistically complete while learning LISP without getting too discouraged. 17:52:11 That would rather depend on -why- you want to learn Lisp. 17:52:12 -!- huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:52:36 or rather, why LISP, instead of, let's say, Common Lisp or Scheme ^_- 17:52:51 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:53:16 sanjoyd: I recommend grabbing some small pet peeve, a copy of PCL (and possibly Gentle introduction) and trying to solve it 17:53:26 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:53:37 I'm currently a student and as such I've no professional requirement I'm trying to fulfill. I wish to learn CLISP mainly because I'm curious. 17:53:49 p_l, I should've been more careful - I really meant CLISP. 17:54:04 Seriously, if you want to do natural language processing, start with something to count the occurances of the words in a file. If you want to do games, start with tic-tac-toe or hangman... Or nim. 17:54:12 sanjoyd: you meant Common Lisp then (GNU CLISP is an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp) 17:54:12 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:54:16 GNU CLISP, or some other implementation? 17:54:47 At the moment I've been playing around with SBCL. 17:55:25 nyef, interesting ... I should probably try something like Tic-Tac-Toe ... 17:55:34 That's a fairly typical choice around here, this channel was originally started by SBCL developers. 17:55:44 :) 17:55:46 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-53-128.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:11 *sanjoyd* goes back to LIMP. 17:56:35 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:58:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:33 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 18:04:25 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:05:26 sanjoyd: how's LIMP? how does it compare to slime+viper+vimpulse? 18:07:13 Have not tried slime+viper+vimpulse, so can't say for sure. But works for me, at least now. 18:08:00 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:13 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:45 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 18:10:12 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:10:56 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:11:02 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 18:11:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:11:07 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:13:20 -!- Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:16:29 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:07 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:56 what's the case with -M 8MW for the mem option to clisp 18:21:09 even that does not allow me build clisp 18:21:38 Give up and use a real implementation? 18:22:47 the build scripts are full of hacks there 18:23:06 one really does not get it how to understand that all 18:23:22 echotab ? 18:23:27 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 18:23:34 what's echotab ? 18:23:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:24:07 and why is there a echotab "somethingbla stack ...argument..." for windows 18:24:13 but not for linux 18:24:53 That said, the "real" implementation doesn't even compile on my system, while clisp has no problem. 18:25:18 And it's not even an extraordinary syste, just a gentoo 64-bit on i7, with Xen. 18:25:31 Are we allowed to blame Xen? 18:25:43 nyef: only if its 2.0 and old glibc 18:25:49 I doubt it, because everything else runs well. 18:25:51 I read on paulgram.com that ita shy away from clos, why is that? 18:25:58 sepult: basically, -M doesn't do anything anymore in clisp. 18:26:21 leo2007: Maybe they have CLOStrophobia? 18:26:22 leo2007: don't believe everything you read on the internets :p 18:26:23 leo: clos has its advantages and disadvantages. 18:26:41 what are the disadvantages? 18:26:52 leo: For many cases it can be considered overcomplex and overflexible. 18:26:53 i have CC='gcc -g -DDEBUG -ansi -p -Wall -Wextra' and ./configure --cbc --with-debug --with-dynamic-moduels 18:26:53 --with-ffi --with-ffcall--with-unicode and the build fail at the last step creating the executable 18:26:55 sepult: what are you trying to build, clisp or sbcl? 18:26:55 major ones if there are too many 18:26:57 you already know the advantages? 18:27:12 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 18:27:17 ehu: I read the book by sonya 18:27:18 leo: It depends on how you judge 'goodness'. 18:27:51 sepult: what system is it, and what's the failure? 18:28:04 leo: The questions to ask are (a) do I want a MOP? (b) If so, do I want clos? 18:28:13 leo2007: does that make you see the advantages of clos? 18:28:31 xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 18:28:56 And (c) Does my language have the requisites for building a MOP on top of it? 18:29:16 -!- huangjs [~user@p3118-ipbf1010marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:29:17 (The main thing you require are callable objects). 18:29:18 There's a fourth question to ask: can I afford to have my program break every time I want to redefine a structure? 18:29:22 ehu: gf, multiple inheritance, etc. 18:29:50 leo2007: but do you *need* that for every application? 18:30:09 the last messages of the build are here http://debian.pastebin.com/PPEtn9zf 18:30:15 pjb: "builds on my system" is not a good measure of quality 18:30:20 ehu: depends on the application. 18:30:38 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082FEAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:39 fe[nl]ix: but "doesn't build on mine" is a good measure of immaturity, and that's what I get with sbcl more than once. 18:30:42 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:30:50 pjb: overall, in Gentoo we're having much more problems with clisp than sbcl 18:31:09 fe[nl]ix: I never had a problem with clisp. 18:31:23 *nyef* typically has more problems with SBCL than any other lisp implementation... But that's because he doesn't use any other lisp implementation if he can help it. 18:31:31 the only reason why we haven't booted clisp from the distro is that texlive depends on it 18:32:00 ojuice_ [ojuice@209.164.37.111.static.sna.hosting.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:24 clisp works pretty well for me, too -- although the adsf is old and upgrading it seems to be broken. 18:32:33 Well, gentoo is rather strange, there are a lot of packages that are masked, but if you download and compile them directly from upstream they work perfectly well. 18:33:07 -!- ojuice_ is now known as ojuice 18:33:29 do anyone use lisp with oracle here? 18:33:54 That said, other distributions are not really better, with packages lagging a lot of time behind... I'm still using gentoo as my main distribution, but I'm not entirely happy. 18:34:19 hypno: I recall some work done by dwim.hu squad 18:34:35 hypno: commercial operations usually do. Allegro+Oracle. 18:34:37 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F8C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:34:47 <_8david> hypno: yes, what p_l says 18:35:05 pjb: again, the fact that a package works well on your system doesn't mean much 18:35:17 ehu: I am interested in CLOS's performance impact if you have any idea. 18:35:25 fe[nl]ix: I was speaking of package that doesn't work well. 18:35:26 perhaps your system is similar to the developer's 18:35:42 i am just looking for the easiest way to connect to it. i'll end up with a shitload of problems with this old (read /Convex Unix/) C program and need to start debugging. lisp would be very helpful. 18:35:42 Namely of sbcl. 18:35:53 leo2007: it can depend a lot on the optimizations of the compiler 18:35:57 pjb: ah, ok, thanks. gonna check that out then. 18:36:08 -!- TDT` [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:28 hypno: clsql might work with Oracle too, I don't remember. 18:36:32 leo2007: and on the caching implemented by your clos 18:36:48 caching is optimization :) 18:37:01 but not in the compiler :-) 18:37:03 <_8david> hypno: we are running on PostgreSQL and Oracle with the same code using hu.dwim.perec 18:37:34 I challenge you to find a conforming common lisp compiler without CLOS 18:37:38 _8david: sounds great. with sbcl or? 18:38:24 <_8david> We support both Allegro and SBCL. Perec comes with its own FFI to Oracle, so we don't use Allegro's own oci bindings. 18:38:41 ah, k. 18:40:37 <_8david> hypno: if you have usage or installation questions, my all means come here and ask. Not all of hlavaty's extensive Oracle and Allegro porting work has been merged from our repos to upstream hu.dwim yet -- but most of it. 18:40:38 what i miss is the history command completion of sbcl 18:40:42 like in clisp 18:40:58 when i press the up key i get the lastz command in clisp 18:41:00 sepult: I believe there is a project that adds it to sbcl. 18:41:11 _8david: ok, thanks. i'll give it a swirl. :) 18:41:13 when i do press anything in sbcl i get crap 18:41:14 <_8david> sepult: you might like "clbuild prepl" 18:41:29 there's rlwrap 18:41:30 prepl is it named in sbcl 18:41:32 oh ok 18:41:35 <_8david> sepult: needs "clbuild hemlock" and is originally based on code from linedit 18:41:44 <_8david> erm, "clbuild install hemlock" I mean 18:41:49 ehu: what about in the best scenario? 18:41:52 ok 18:42:28 <_8david> dlowe: that's certainly the easy way out, although I think that a native Lisp solution can offer much more than naive readline use. 18:43:07 _8david: probably, but this is why the default answer is usually "use SLIME" 18:43:09 <_8david> dlowe: the linedit based code available as (HEMLOCK:REPL) has syntax highlighting, ordinary and fuzzy completion, some support for multi-line editing and indentation, ... 18:43:48 *dlowe* wasn't knocking other very capable systems. 18:44:57 leo2007: that question is too generic to answer; The best answer will be the test you perform with your use-case 18:45:45 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:46:09 ok, anyway. 18:48:03 <_8david> dlowe: admittedly, other "very capable" systems didn't exist until recently. (HEMLOCK:REPL) is an effort only a few weeks old, unless you count its linedit heritage. 18:51:06 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:51:28 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:37 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:20 duh got clisp build now 18:55:22 lol 18:56:58 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-101.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:34 i forgot to put in readline thoug i requested it, that's why the build failed 19:00:42 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-250.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:06:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-248-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:09:11 sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-248-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:25 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-181.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:17:27 now what makes me uneasy is why would the build just go on and not tell me it was missing something 19:17:51 it seems there was actually something mentioned whilst building 19:19:27 ChibaPet [~mason@c-76-19-35-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:54 hey all - using ccl, noob question: going through PAIP, and I notice that (trace) isn't following recursions 19:20:11 docs aren't making it immediately obvious to me how to get it to do the right thing 19:21:09 hm 19:21:22 http://paste.lisp.org/+2E4C 19:21:49 is this thing on? -taps microphone- 19:22:10 yes, welcome to #lisp 19:22:15 I think the Interwebs must be broken. 19:22:17 Ah, hello there. 19:23:13 ChibaPet: see what ( POLICY.ALLOW-TAIL-RECURSION-ELIMINATION) returns 19:23:15 So! What I don't know is if what I'm seeing is universally-expected behaviour from modern CL or not. And I'm wondering if there's a way to force this to show me recursion when it's happening. Looking at http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/Trace hasn't enlightened me, sadly. 19:23:33 Ooooh. 19:23:44 So I'm being optimized into iteration you think? Checking. 19:23:55 and then (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) and see if that fixes it for you 19:24:01 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24:03 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:06 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-210.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:24:34 hm, doesn't like that as a symbol or function - setting your declaim 19:25:02 ChibaPet: you'll probably have to recompile the function to make it take effect 19:25:20 After that declaim, still doesn't show me the recursion. But I bet you're right about the iteration. Okay, recompiling function. 19:25:44 ChibaPet: see http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2003-March/004655.html and http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/DebugWithOpenmcl 19:25:46 Ah, thou art smart, sir. 19:26:15 I have to give CLISP one thing - it has bloody fast startup 19:26:18 Recompiling the function presumably eliminated the tail-recursion-optimization. thank you. Bookmarking those links. 19:26:27 ChibaPet: Thou hast a fine and discerning eye for character 19:27:57 Alright, back to my book. Thank you very much for the help, links, etc. 19:28:20 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-76-19-35-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChibaPet] 19:39:15 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:09 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 19:42:14 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:42 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:23 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.2] has joined #lisp 19:47:38 by the way, about ccl, how do I start up hemlock? does it work on windows? 19:50:45 laynor: the ccl graphical ide only works on mac os x. there's ongoing experimentation with a version that runs on windows, but it's still immature and buggy. 19:51:06 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:51:58 rme: thanks :-) how does it compare to slime? Just curious 19:52:24 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 19:52:28 -!- xristos is now known as Guest54213 19:53:13 <_8david> laynor: there's also upstream hemlock, which works with CCL on Windows using Qt 19:53:30 <_8david> It, too, is immature and buggy, of course. :-) 19:54:30 <_8david> (It's also rather slow on CCL, compared to SBCL.) 19:54:49 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:55:01 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:23 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:56:03 _8david: Do you happen to know if that is that from ffi overhead or something else? 19:56:48 <_8david> Well. I've always felt that Hemlock in general is sluggish on CCL compared to SBCL/CMUCL, e.g. when opening files of non-trivial length. 19:56:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:18 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:58:16 <_8david> But in the Qt backend, the cffi calls in the redisplay code seemed like a particular problem, that is true. 19:58:34 _8david: why not use mmap ? 20:00:23 laynor` [~user@93.107.254.62] has joined #lisp 20:00:53 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2BAE6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:41 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: how would that work exactly? mmap as a buffer representation? 20:02:39 <_8david> rme: if I may turn the question around, is cffi known be slower than ccl's ffi? (And how fast is CCL's FFI?) 20:03:06 -!- laynor [~user@109.78.95.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:10 is cffi or uffi more buggy ? 20:03:22 and why is clsql depending on uffi then ? 20:03:33 <_8david> sepult: cffi is very non-buggy, and definitely the way go for new code. 20:04:04 <_8david> sepult: however, there was a time before cffi, when uffi was the only portable solution, and old code is sometimes still using it. 20:04:49 _8david: yes 20:05:11 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:56 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-13-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:06:31 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: I wonder how to deal with external format conversion then. Also, what buffer implementation would that go with -- a gap buffer? (I'm assuming that Hemlock's naive list-of-lines buffer wouldn't be a good match...) 20:07:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:09:16 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 20:09:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:58 _8david: let me think a bit 20:11:07 I'll tell you tomorrow :) 20:13:24 lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:09 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:16 Hm, what happens if I create a self referencing cons? 20:16:23 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:37 as in: http://paste.lisp.org/+2E4G 20:17:07 or rather, I see what happens but dont understand it :) 20:17:55 lejoon: the first thing you should understand is that it's bad to modify literals 20:18:02 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:20 lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:38 I get that, this is for academic purposes :) 20:19:08 ? 20:19:42 it's bad to modify literals for academic purposes 20:20:12 try starting with (list 'a 'b) to begin with 20:21:39 _8david: when ccl calls a foreign function, it has to save the registers and switch stacks. When a foreign call does a small amount of work (e.g., like glVertex3f) that overhead can become noticeable. 20:23:01 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:32 toast`: im not sure im following you? do you mean its bad practive to modify literals as wit tmp in this case, or do you see something wrong with the code? i can assure you it runs 20:24:19 true, but so does a car without brakes. doesn't make it a good idea :-) 20:24:41 the compiler is permitted to entirely ignore those writes, because it's not supported to modify literals 20:24:56 but it's not requires to issue any diagnostic 20:25:05 toast`: ah but that wasnt the question :) 20:25:11 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:25:26 toast`: good to know though 20:26:04 well, i'm suggesting a better question -- asking about the same code, but substitute '(a b) with (list 'a 'b) 20:26:41 toast`: very well, the same question, now with the substituion '(a b) (list 'a 'b) ;) 20:26:51 lejoon: if you modify literals then we can't say much about the code because the consequences are undefined by the standard 20:27:32 adeht: that makes sense, so in some cases it could halt and some other it would run forever? 20:27:52 _8david: And on 32-bit Windows, we save and reload a segment register around the ff-call, so that probably isn't free, either. 20:28:02 lejoon: maybe, but I suspect you really want to know about *print-circle* 20:28:51 also, i think i missed the original question 20:29:13 _8david: for what it is worth: the CCL FFI is one of the major reasons I use CCL. It sports builtin checks, and I've got good fps numbers with opengl and very high request per second with libevent. it's great. :D 20:29:45 toast`: im trying to figure what happens if you manage to create two cells which points to each other, as to create a loop 20:29:58 <_8david> rme: actually my "FFI code" involves a bit more than just straight FFI invocation, there is Lisp-side inline caching involved to speed up C++ calls. 20:30:15 <_8david> I should try to work out where exactly the time sinks are. 20:30:34 there is no string-char element-type of array or ? 20:30:35 ah, like (let ((x (cons nil nil))) (setf (cdr x) x) x) 20:30:42 an infinite list of nils :) 20:31:08 <_8david> Don't know how insightful this is for anyone but me, but let me paste some C++ call micro-benchmarks that I did when trying to make CommonQt less insanely slow... 20:31:35 someone know where cl-smoke is ? 20:31:39 lol 20:34:44 lejoon: check the topic.. #1=(programmable . #1#) :) 20:34:59 <_8david> don't know what lisppaste is up to. http://paste.lisp.org/display/111618 is the paste. 20:35:15 _8david: lisppaste has been devoiced 20:35:53 _8david ~ is that in ns? 20:36:16 yeah, 168 for a heap alloc -- not much overhead from the interop, right? 20:37:58 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 20:38:21 doh, nm, the sbcl stats. swapping stacks shouldn't be more than 200ns or so, right? 20:39:51 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:40:12 <_8david> well, while the calling convention in Lisp code is slightly different from C code, the stack is actually the same for SBCL/x86. 20:40:43 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:49 <_8david> What the SBCL section shows are _not_ FFI calls directly to smoke. (But I should do that sort of benchmark for comparison.) 20:41:19 adeht: hah, witty 20:42:03 <_8david> It shows a real-world method call, where CommonQt takes the run-time types of the arguments, goes into an inline cache, compares lots of objects to see if the cache is still valid, and _then_ calls FFI. Overall, probably a dozen Lisp function calls to various cached closures. 20:46:12 <_8david> The slower "new" calls on Clozure are most likely differences in MAKE-INSTANCE speed, because the C++ pointers get wrapped in CLOS instance. 20:47:10 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 20:47:54 xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 20:48:39 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-53-128.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:33 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:37 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:53:46 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 20:54:19 xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 20:57:11 pnq [asdf@ACA46DDB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:54 -!- Guest54213 is now known as xristos 21:04:02 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:08 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:06:37 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@90-231-246-83-no156.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:07:27 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 21:10:22 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:10:55 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:58 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 21:15:54 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:25 lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:55 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:04 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:32:03 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:34 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 why does `sbcl --script` wait for me to type in input and hit enter before it prints the format line in this function: http://ideone.com/DETlF 21:34:52 do i need to somehow flush stdout or something? in the repl it works fine 21:36:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:36:37 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:38:33 derrida: yes, flush via force-output or finish-output. 21:39:04 Xach: thank you. 21:39:10 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 21:39:37 <_8david> Presumably, in interactive mode the input and output streams are both synonyms for the terminal, and even though line buffering is the default, a read will flush output on the same stream, whereas in a script, it would make sense for fd 0 1 and to be distinct streams? 21:40:28 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:33 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-248-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:18 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@ppp079166225012.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:53 rvirding [~chatzilla@h29n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:03 Odin-LAP [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:51:37 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.186.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:53:15 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@168.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:54:18 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:38 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.244.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:02:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:09 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.244.110] has joined #lisp 22:07:23 davazp [~user@83.52.41.49] has joined #lisp 22:08:46 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 22:09:13 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:44 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:37 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 Ugh. Git tags for SBCL releases only go back to about 1.0.15? 22:17:32 <_8david> the earliest tag I see is sbcl_0_6_10 22:17:47 Yeah, but there seems to be a gap for the 1.0 series. 22:18:16 *_8david* doesn't see a gap 22:18:41 Oh well. I just found the information I needed in CVS. 22:19:54 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:49 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:43 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:29 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 22:45:33 Good morning! 22:46:13 Hello plage. 22:49:26 it's plage and the strange day-time again 22:49:35 Always morning somewhere. 22:50:09 It's Lisp O'Clock 22:51:20 dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:54:32 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 22:54:52 Morning! 22:58:44 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA46DDB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:07 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:28 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 23:14:38 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 how can i force this function to output as a string? currently i get a list of symbols but using `string` on that list doesn't work 23:15:44 http://ideone.com/Li6un 23:17:57 (format nil "~S" (10-plus foo)) ? 23:18:01 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20:53 nyef: i'm an idjut :P 23:21:05 Nah, just inexperienced. 23:21:20 *derrida* nods 23:21:27 i was trying .. crazy things 23:21:29 :D 23:21:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:00 nyef: ty 23:22:05 At the same time, better can be done. 23:22:11 -!- dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:12 Algid [~endgame@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:00 How about (defun 10-plus (var) (format nil "Ten plus ~S is ~S." var (+ 10 var))) ? 23:23:48 i like :) 23:29:14 uhm, ccl64 and slime don't really play nicely on windows :( 23:30:39 or at least it happens after i load plplot -_-' 23:32:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75732a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:59 laynor`: You're already doing something that has rarely, if ever, been done before. Are you really surprised that you're having trouble? 23:34:25 nyef: I didn't know that :-) but no, not surprised actually, but I always hope for the best XD 23:35:22 uhm, I restart emacs. 23:35:26 -!- laynor` [~user@93.107.254.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:17 laynor [~user@93.107.254.62] has joined #lisp 23:36:29 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:28 pnq [asdf@ACA2CC32.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:26 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:42:37 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:23 say I have a constants.lisp with some defconstants in them. And then I add a new one and hit C-c C-k in Emacs/Slime to compile and load it. But of course Lisp complains that I'm redefining constants. Is the best solution to only evaluate the new one, or is there something else? 23:45:24 inklesspen: There are two possibilities: The first is that you aren't merely defining a new constant, you're changing an existing one. The second is that some of your "constants" aren't constant under a print/read cycle. 23:45:46 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:48 If it's the former, "just" recompile all references to the constant afterwards and you should be good. 23:45:58 If it's the latter, use a defparameter instead. 23:46:16 (There are other strategies, but the defparameter is the easiest to explain.) 23:48:42 I'm getting errors like: The constant +REALM+ is being redefined (from "http://localhost:4242/" to "http://localhost:4242/") 23:49:02 which is defined like so: (defconstant +realm+ "http://localhost:4242/") 23:49:08 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h29n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:49:17 inklesspen: if the values aren't eql, you'll get that error in sbcl. 23:49:23 inklesspen: strings like that need not be eql 23:49:27 I see. 23:49:33 Well, what's the best approach here? 23:49:35 inklesspen: better to use, as nyef said, defparameter or defvar. 23:49:44 what's the point of defconstant, then? 23:49:45 i'd go for define-constant from alexandria 23:50:03 inklesspen: it's good for things that are eql, like numbers. 23:50:52 okay 23:51:53 how can I get sbcl's version number? 23:52:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:08 laynor: (lisp-implementation-version) 23:52:18 laynor: that is a standard function, so it will work elsewhere too. 23:52:26 Xach: thanks! 23:52:48 oh, running an old sbcl it seems. Going to upgrade. 23:53:22 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:23 how old? 23:54:09 not so old, 1.0.29 23:55:14 one year old or more it seems 23:55:40 *Xach* is using 1.0.6 on wigflip.com 23:56:33 eh, but you are on a well supported platform I guess :-) I'm hoping something got better meanwhile on windows. 23:57:48 I don't think so. Nobody's working on it. 23:57:57 Aside from that surprise announcement of threads from left field. 23:58:08 laynor: If you run into ccl bugs on Windows, please report them. User feedback helps things get better. 23:58:29 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:59:47 http://ccl.clozure.com/ will tell you how to report bugs if you want to. 23:59:51 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Nah.]