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I get the same error in gvim :-) 00:29:42 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.49] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:05 leo2007: About fsolve and jacobians, could you send me the non-linear equation? 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[~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27:24 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-216.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:28:51 evening 03:30:05 Hello beslyrus. 03:30:18 how're the threads coming along? 03:30:54 Doing some testing along the branch right now. Making sure things still work unithreaded, cheneygc, x86-64, etc. 03:31:30 Already found two more bugs from that. 03:31:38 Re. memory barrier; scl provides an explicit api for barriers 03:31:56 That's... somehow unsurprising. 03:32:08 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:32:35 nice. let me know if you need me to spin test builds. 03:33:12 tcr: Does it include the alpha dependent-read thing? 03:33:41 nyef: dependent read? 03:33:46 beslyrus: Probably won't be until tomorrow, and threads clearly won't be stable until the whole barrier thing gets sorted. 03:34:03 pkhuong: Yeah, alpha has some really weak memory ordering guarantees. 03:34:15 http://www.scieneer.com/scl/doc/synchronisation.html 03:34:57 provide a full membar; the rest is just microoptimisation ;) 03:35:22 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:07 tcr: Thanks! 03:36:16 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:58 Of course, the problem is that much of the thread-safety / locking / lockless stuff in sbcl has been done purely in terms of the x86oid memory models. 03:37:18 (That's going to break down with some of the newer designs, isn't it?) 03:37:44 x86 design? probably still ok, actually. 03:37:46 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:53 I wonder if there's room for CSE on unithreaded builds; I like using with-slots on structures but each such access compiles down to a memory access 03:38:19 tcr: give me membars, and I'll feel comfortable doing that sort of thing. 03:39:11 I'm not sure what out latest decision is, but we contemplated using unithreaded sbcl just for its much lighter special var access 03:39:13 nyef: probably won't break, but might not be fast 03:39:34 tcr: ... and I have a patch for that :/ 03:39:34 My current plan is to get my ppc-threads branch in proper order, do a forced push to repo.or.cz, announce to sbcl-devel, and open the discussion about memory barriers there. 03:40:01 Well how much lighter can you can make them in lieu of threads? 03:40:12 nyef: I think threads on ppc and win32 would cerrtainly warrant a 1.1 release! 03:40:28 beslyrus: And I think December 2010 warrants a 1.1 release. :-P 03:40:35 hoist the TLS index lookup to load or compile -time. 03:40:44 threads on win32/ppc would warrant such one even more ;-) 03:40:48 let's make sure ppc and win32 threads are ready in 6 months then :) 03:41:01 pkhuong: How about doing that to cross-compile time for static-symbols? 03:41:10 nyef: thoughts on safepoints and win32, btw? 03:41:22 Still haven't looked at the win32 port code. 03:43:07 Though I will point out that explicit safepoints is an idea we've tossed around in the past, so it's not completely unprecedented. 03:43:47 nyef: and ISTR you had strong opinions on the matter when I tested them and wanted to pull out all of our interrupt handling code. 03:44:41 I'm not remembering what my opinions were, though. 03:47:05 My brain is essentially fried for tonight, actually. I'm going to bed soon after this last build finishes. 03:48:37 Anyway, one of the things I was thinking of with respect to memory barriers and lock-free synchronization is that there is prior art for mechanistic verification of lock-free code. 03:50:14 Domain-specific language for the actual synchronization points, and have chunks of our runtime proven to have its memory barriers right. 03:50:26 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:51:15 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:51:19 good morning 03:51:46 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:24 For the memory barriers themselves, I'm thinking we should just swipe the linux kernel setup. 03:52:37 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:15 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:38 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:51 nyef: you mean "write like it's going to run on Alpha, and just declare non-necessary code to be NOP"? :) 03:58:06 p_l: Basically, yes. 03:58:12 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:58:36 Just in case we get someone who wants to whip the alpha backend into shape. 03:59:17 or someone relaxes memory ordering on other arch :D 03:59:26 Yeah, that too. 04:00:13 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:38 I'm more likely to torture the ppc backend into replicating some of the quirks of the alpha backend than to bring the alpha backend up to scratch. 04:01:57 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:01:58 Anyway, it's midnight, and I'd like to get some sleep. 04:02:03 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:10:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nicslmtqoqwabsou] has joined #lisp 04:12:17 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-klavawnoojopeems] has joined #lisp 04:15:48 -!- oat [oat@CPE00222d7e5162-CM00222d7e515e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:17:14 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:31 oat [oat@CPE00222d7e5162-CM00222d7e515e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:10 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:30 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.138.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:22 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:54 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:41 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:24 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:50 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:47:55 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.167.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:25 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:50:54 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:51:18 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:51:50 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:51:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:52:40 pnq [asdf@AC815A16.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:17 rirombo [~richard@pool-71-117-246-33.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:00 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:30 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:09:54 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:10:24 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:11:37 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:12:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:15:24 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:16:37 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:59 aw [~aw@p5DDA8F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:55 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-14.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:29:13 -!- eno__ [~eno@adsl-70-137-167-249.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:25 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:29:41 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 05:29:49 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:49 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30:15 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:32:37 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:33:28 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nicslmtqoqwabsou] has left #lisp 05:34:19 -!- rirombo [~richard@pool-71-117-246-33.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:46:40 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:49:26 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 05:52:15 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 05:52:33 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zypxuavyyjwuotuy] has joined #lisp 05:53:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:54:25 is there a shorter way of doing (or (string-equal mystring "xyz") (string-equal mystring "abc"))? something like, (string-equal '(or "xyz" "abc")) 05:56:20 (member "xyz" '("xyz" "abc") :test #'string-equal) 05:57:08 is there a sequence version of member, other than 'some'? 05:57:22 toast`: find 05:57:37 and position 05:57:49 doh, i should have guessed 05:58:01 stassats: thanks 05:58:19 *toast`* comes from a C++ world -- there's no 'member', there's only 'find' returned not found 06:01:50 stupid common-lisp-indent-function its stupidity is driving me mad 06:02:23 Wondering if I'm at a point to take up slime-indentation 06:02:46 Can anyone remind me on what I didn't like about slime-indentation? 06:04:10 zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:05 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:06 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:16 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:11:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:14:59 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:18:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:18:35 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:18:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:19:12 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:20:25 -!- bandu [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 06:20:38 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:43 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:28 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:58 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666a60-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:32 -!- Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:13 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:24:15 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 06:26:26 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:39 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.36.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:31:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:32:05 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:31 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 06:33:31 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:27 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:35:05 attila_lendvai: howdy 06:36:09 attila_lendvai: in time-local.lisp, in the gunctio %guess-offset, there's a reference to *default-timezone* although that variable wil be declared later in the file. 06:36:16 tcr: hey. a bit stressed about a very near deadline, which depends more on politics and communication than on the software developed... 06:36:20 s/gunctio/function/ 06:36:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:59 tcr: it's on my TODO to seriously overhaul local-time, which starts with splitting it into several files 06:37:10 (reasons in the TODO file) 06:37:11 zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:33 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:52 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:43:05 good morning 06:43:06 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:44:14 minion: memo for rtoym: sorry I missed your msg last night. Sure I have prepared a file in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/uhfkp2RI2xi7m1eoAq0X/ 06:44:14 Remembered. I'll tell rtoym when he/she/it next speaks. 06:45:00 adityo [~adityo@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:48:38 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 06:50:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:58 zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:11 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-5eeadcc5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 06:55:30 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:59 -!- tessier___ is now known as tessier 06:59:04 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:59:40 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:48 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:01:24 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-82.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:32 minion: memo for rtoym: use this instead http://paste.pocoo.org/show/kUXi5fudlcZDDP1SH3XF/ 07:02:32 Remembered. I'll tell rtoym when he/she/it next speaks. 07:02:51 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has left #lisp 07:04:21 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248127148.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:07:57 -!- Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:09:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:05 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:10:08 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:15 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:12:06 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.58] has joined #lisp 07:12:57 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:14 hello lispers 07:15:52 rsynnott_ [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:16:26 levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:17:02 npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has joined #lisp 07:17:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:18:01 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:30 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:19:27 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:12 hi kiuma 07:20:18 -!- rsynnott_ [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:25 thought not completed: clonsigna on http://www.wingstech.it/git 07:20:43 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:20:45 don't worry I'll add docstrings 07:20:48 :P 07:21:26 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:22:02 -!- pnq [asdf@AC815A16.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:22:18 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:22:32 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:39 and I have to optimise cl-ppcre calls too :) 07:23:01 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:23:18 -!- levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:24:34 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:47 justinnew10 [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:07 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:30 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:41 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:35:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:38:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:38:40 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:38:55 cods [~cods@82.241.80.108] has joined #lisp 07:38:58 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 07:39:14 kiuma: how does it compare to mel-base's imap support? (: 07:39:52 *aerique* dreamt last night he had gotten a lambda symbol tattooed on his forearm :-) 07:40:19 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 07:41:52 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:53 antifuchs, easier to use, automatic message parsing 07:42:00 cool 07:42:36 currently I'm dealing with complex bodystructure 07:42:55 just sent an email to me of such kind 07:43:19 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: night] 07:43:27 I'll then write a webclient based on claw.dojo similar to gmail 07:44:18 Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 07:45:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:27 <_8david> I found mel-base relatively easy to use. WTF is automatic message parsing? 07:48:27 kiuma: i'm glad you're sticking to your project, this is really useful 07:48:29 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-4-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:48:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111524 for your info :) 07:49:13 it halso has threading facilities 07:49:27 _8david: AFAIK, imap supports fetching separate email body parts 07:49:33 halso sprach kiuma 07:49:36 now I have to interpretate and parse :bodystructure 07:50:33 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-85-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:57 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:05 Lycurgus, heh 07:51:18 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:51:57 kiuma: that sounds very useful. 07:52:29 I hope so, even because I don't like actual webmail clients around 07:52:37 the OS one 07:52:48 *ones 07:53:04 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 07:53:18 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:53:18 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:42 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:16 -!- justinnew10 [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: justinnew10] 08:05:34 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 08:05:38 Good afternoon! 08:05:39 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.80] has joined #lisp 08:07:58 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-206.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:08:39 noons 08:10:12 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 08:10:51 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:10 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 08:11:44 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 08:13:31 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:15:33 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 08:18:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:17 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:46 billitch [~billitch@g229048213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:24:36 i'm wondering, is CLOS reentrant in sbcl ? 08:24:42 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:24:58 or do i have to mutex lock every slot access shared between threads ? 08:26:40 i'm guessing i have to since locking is expensive, but would not want to do it twice either 08:27:54 You don't have to on x86, at the moment anyway 08:28:42 Other cpu may not see the changes though 08:28:52 but is it atomic?? 08:28:57 s/?// 08:29:32 As far as I understand, it boils down to one pointer change which is atomic on x86 08:30:48 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:30:50 I'm getting "note: doing SAP to pointer coercion (cost 20)"  what are reasons for sbcl to box a sap? 08:30:57 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:11 the thing is actually cffi:inc-pointer which is inlined to sap+ 08:31:41 the return value is only used within the body as far as I'm seeing. 08:32:18 ah wait no it's passed to ERROR 08:32:28 in some unlikely branch :-) 08:34:15 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:45 tcr: good to know 08:36:17 Wait for a more decisive reply from e.g. pkhuong 08:36:35 but it would render some code I've written in past pretty bogus :-) 08:36:41 well unless specified somewhere i wont rely on it, but it's good to know 08:37:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38:40 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has left #lisp 08:38:42 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 08:39:23 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.58] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:14 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 08:49:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:16 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-5eeadcc5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:22 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-5eeadcc5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:58:38 *p_l* questions sanity of people who write *windows installers* for software in Java 08:59:13 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-139-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:59:30 mm.. parsing imap bodystructure is complex ... even in lisp :/ 08:59:39 \me needs to take a break 09:00:09 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.58] has joined #lisp 09:00:09 *kiuma* needs to take a break 09:00:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:01:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:02 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:01:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:44 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:03:08 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:05:09 kiuma: what method do you use for parsing ? 09:05:44 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 09:06:14 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:07:27 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:42 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 Unfortunately something just went horribly wrong. <--- nothing like a helpful error message 09:14:20 hm, how do i redefine a method whose arguments have changed? sbcl complains about the generic function being different 09:14:52 maybe fmakunbound the function first 09:15:39 leadnose: thanks, that worked 09:16:04 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:20:13 Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has joined #lisp 09:24:33 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:27:40 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:07 galdor, it's already a lisp list 09:28:15 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:28:45 yes there's S-expressions in IMAP 09:29:32 galdor, http://paste.lisp.org/display/111524#1 09:29:43 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:10 oh cool 09:30:18 galdor, the luck is that CL<->IMAP binding is pretty natural 09:30:30 -!- david__ [~david@87-194-167-91.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:35 the issue is more on interpreting 09:30:46 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:31:25 I wanted to add some imap support for an old IRC bot of mine, your lib could be really useful 09:31:53 then I'll be able to create an html document (that can contain images when something like cid:image001.jpg@01CB0E0A.84E17120 is found 09:32:03 ) 09:32:57 I take the AUTHENTICATE command for last :P 09:34:25 ZabaQ [~johnc@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:33 kiuma: for the cl<->imap part, do you use some external (C?) library? 09:34:43 iolib 09:34:52 for nio socket connections 09:35:06 just this 09:35:07 right, ok. 09:35:26 easy to reblace if you don't want it 09:35:32 *replace 09:36:23 but it currently only works on sbcl because of lack of babel charset encoding 09:36:34 a bit unncessesary perhap, but i wondered if you were using some C lib for the actual initial parsing of imap, like uw-imap or somesuch. 09:36:55 ah no, absolutely not :) 09:37:07 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:37:37 iolib is the only luxury I'm permitting to me :P 09:44:22 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 09:49:22 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 09:50:53 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:19 laynor` [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 09:53:18 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 09:54:00 aw [~aw@p5DDA8F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:29 -!- laynor [~user@109.78.122.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:32 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:55:34 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:55:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:56 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.6] has joined #lisp 09:59:36 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:00:22 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:37 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:10 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-139-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:06:24 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:15:56 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-216.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:17:49 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-0-166.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:21:42 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 10:25:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:25:17 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-91-184.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:26:58 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-0-166.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27:48 Hmm, is sb-introspect described in the SBCL manual? 10:27:52 billitch1 [~billitch@e179147203.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:08 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:08 don't think so 10:28:38 I'll dig, but I wanted to know if you can see references to special variables via sb-introspect. 10:29:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:05 yes: who-references. 10:30:10 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 10:30:14 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Night.] 10:30:35 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:31:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:31:46 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:32:14 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest95232 10:32:30 the code is very clear. you could almost just put that straight into the manual and call it good. 10:33:31 -!- Guest95232 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:35:42 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:02 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 10:37:37 Xach: you sound like attila :) 10:37:40 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 10:39:02 _danb_ [~user@124-168-165-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:40:48 Almost. 10:41:27 in my world the documentation of sb-introspect would be this: "provides a relatively static api for extracting information from the vm state". and i would not copy-paste there anything elsem just link to the test suite... :) 10:42:24 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 Tanami [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 10:45:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:46:40 HG` [~HG@xdslff075.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:27 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.186.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:51:33 revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:52:04 and just a random note: the time between "let's see what's in the manual" and "ok, let's dig instead" is substantially longer than the delay before "found it" (although typing time and other external events may have distorted the numbers) 10:52:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:53:37 I'm glad I don't live in your world. 10:53:49 *_8david* thought the docs for sb-introspect would be "low-level stuff needed by swank" 10:53:59 heh 10:54:13 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:54:43 *Xach* is going metadata-spelunking and sb-introspect will be handy 10:58:13 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:45 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:02 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:00:07 -!- revel0_ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:54 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:02:04 <_8david> ... and I mean that in a good sense. 11:02:35 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:35 <_8david> While sb-introspect has a reasonable API, the important stuff could as well be done in a portable way (and has been done like that in slime). And for debugging-related functions, the swank API is actually better. 11:03:43 <_8david> So those parts of swank, turned into a stand-alone library (with documentation), would be quite nice. (I've started to work towards that goal with conium, except that the part with the nice documentation is missing there.) 11:04:17 lejoon [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:04:40 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:09:24 fjellfras [~abhijat@123.236.183.160] has joined #lisp 11:09:53 *Xach* adds conium to his list 11:11:20 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:30 how fundamental are cons cells anyway? 11:12:51 surely you can have cons - free dialects if you really wanted. 11:13:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:56 they don't seem to be that good a match for modern hardware 11:16:11 ZabaQ: very fundamental 11:16:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:19:46 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.79] has joined #lisp 11:20:12 ZabaQ: what does match? 11:21:24 ZabaQ: in my opinion cons cells, and specifically singly linked lists, are way overused in lisp. (i'm talking about the data structure, not about things like a simple api for dealing with program code as value. and while we are at it, cons cells for program code is an unfortunate choice, because it doesn't give you a chance of annotating code without disturbing data dealt with by the compiler) 11:21:40 stassats: something with a pointer size that is half data word size? 11:22:02 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:23 ZabaQ: what modern hardware has half-word pointers? 11:22:41 an half-assed hardware 11:23:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:24:21 stassats: none that I'm aware of. 11:24:37 there are place though where cons cells are natural, like in is a recursive algorithm that builds a tree that needs to be automatically rolled back on unwinding 11:26:11 ZabaQ: maybe you didn't understand my question. i'm asking what data structure match modern hardware better 11:27:29 There's a nice presentation by Guy Steele about the topic 11:29:44 stassats: Good question. If your code is farily static, simple vectors, for the massive potential cache wins. But the minute you start operating on it as data..moden hardware is pretty horrible I'd have thought. I'm not at all sure. 11:29:50 tcr: There is? 11:30:25 ZabaQ: do you have performance problem with code representation? 11:31:28 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:33:09 stassats: No, I'm just thinking out loud. I was trying to write a highly templated idiomatic C++ version of a toy lisp, and ran into problems with boost::cons (as in not being able to compile it with my C++ implementation). Now it's making me wonder about the implementation decisions. 11:33:57 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:04 stassats: Also, cache tends to dominate performance on modern hardware, so it's pretty fundamental. I'd expect to run into performance problems if I didn't respect it. 11:36:08 atillas point about annontotability is interesting, though. 11:37:14 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:40:23 ZabaQ: cache issues of cons cells are handled by GC, though I admit that they might be overused 11:42:55 -!- laynor` [~user@109.76.33.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:13 laynor` [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 11:43:47 vadim [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has joined #lisp 11:45:12 -!- vadim [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has left #lisp 11:45:42 vadim [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has joined #lisp 11:46:05 -!- vadim [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:27 vadimtech [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has joined #lisp 11:46:30 ZabaQ: also, a "sufficiently smart runtime" allocates cons cells on a special heap (address range, whatever) and consecutively allocated lists can end up consecutive 99% of the time and using only one word instead of two. (or even all of them if you are willing to spend more time on gc...) 11:47:13 Hell to the community 11:47:24 o 11:47:27 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 11:47:39 heh, another fristrated lisper? :) 11:47:49 s/i/u/ 11:48:34 ;) just strating 11:48:59 attila_lendvai: is there CAR instruction analogue? 11:49:16 stassats: analogue in what way? 11:49:49 stassats: i don't know what you refere to, but there are implementations that used special tag bits for cons cells where the CDR was on the next word 11:50:10 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:51:49 having a separate heap for such cons cells is just a matter of how you dispatch on the tag bits -- using the address range as a first step (slower), or "wasting" more bits from the words (faster if you can't split the address range at compile time) 11:51:49 oh, you mean that. i thought about restricting the address range so that two addresses fit in one word 11:52:42 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:53:21 Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:53:30 but i imagine that calculating the actual address would be costly 11:55:25 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:52 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:36 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:14 who fancy to define 'recursion'? 11:59:58 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 11:59:59 vadimtech: #math 12:00:05 as a proof method ? 12:00:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:01:09 as an example 12:01:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:39 (P0 ^ (for all n, Pn => Pn+1) => for all n, Pn 12:02:01 insert right parenthesis where appropriate 12:03:35 atilla_lendvai: for a moment there I thought you meant having all the CARs in one heap and all the CDRs in another, and pairing them up 12:04:12 stassats: you mean a'la CDR-coding? 12:04:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:39 let's call Pn the predicate "the evaluation En proves theorem Tn", and you can prove T for all n 12:05:28 i can only hope this helps, given you provided no more information than "recursion". 12:05:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:08 -!- knobo` [~user@ti100710a080-0134.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:07:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:43 minion: speak 12:08:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``speak''. 12:08:44 rtoym, memo from leo2007: sorry I missed your msg last night. Sure I have prepared a file in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/uhfkp2RI2xi7m1eoAq0X/ 12:08:44 rtoym, memo from leo2007: use this instead http://paste.pocoo.org/show/kUXi5fudlcZDDP1SH3XF/ 12:09:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:10 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:41 tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has joined #lisp 12:10:58 aw [~aw@141.76.6.114] has joined #lisp 12:11:57 Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:14:06 minion: memo for gigamonkey: you need to kick your webserver; rss feed has been timing out for a week or two 12:14:06 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 12:14:38 hi froydnj! 12:15:37 froydnj: thank you for your work on chipz. it has made my life much easier. 12:15:46 also: ironclad 12:17:17 Xach: you're welcome. not much work as of late =/ 12:17:54 froydnj: that's the beauty of portable CL, when it works, it works :) 12:18:19 *attila_lendvai* is also grateful for froydnj for ironclad 12:19:56 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:54 Although writing a Lisp in C++ is a daft thing to do anyway, isn't it? Better to write a lisp interpreter in lisp, write a compiler in that interpreter to compile the interpreter. But even then I'd need a runtime.. 12:21:06 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 12:21:06 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:21:19 ZabaQ: peter graves didn't think so. 12:21:27 Depends on what you want to do with it. 12:26:32 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.40] has joined #lisp 12:27:23 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:31:22 asarch [~asarch@189.188.199.193] has joined #lisp 12:35:58 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:37:17 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@e179147203.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:41 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:39:04 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-53-59.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:39:06 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest6538 12:40:46 Xach: I hadn't seen XCL before. Interesting. 12:41:46 -!- Guest6538 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 12:41:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:21 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:50 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:49:38 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zypxuavyyjwuotuy] has left #lisp 12:51:24 Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:52:58 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:53:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:41 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:56:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:57:58 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:58:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:58:32 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:00:32 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:06:24 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:10:33 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:12:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:12:55 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 13:13:08 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:15:30 hi LiamH 13:15:47 hi fe[nl]ix 13:15:47 LiamH, memo from fe[nl]ix: ping 13:17:38 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-klavawnoojopeems] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:44 fe[nl]ix: memo? 13:22:35 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:29:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:14 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:34:12 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:15 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-206.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:25 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-91-184.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:24 pjb-work [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:06 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-16.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 LiamH: thy desire has been fulfilled 13:41:35 oooh, :initial-contents, really? 13:44:18 yea 13:44:54 cool, thanks. When pushed? 13:45:17 17 hours ago 13:45:44 ...says gitorious 13:45:56 um... not seeing it on git://common-lisp.net/projects/iolib/static-vectors.git 13:46:27 should I be pulling from another url? 13:46:35 http://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors/ 13:47:40 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-182.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:01 knobo [~user@fcnoos-nd-fw01.freecode.no] has joined #lisp 13:48:07 Login required for the clone url? 13:48:34 LiamH: I forgot to enable mirroring to the repo on c-l.net. fixed now 13:48:48 LiamH: press the "GIT" radio button 13:49:47 it's pressed, what should happen? 13:50:24 the url should change to git://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors.git 13:50:43 I don't see that, but thanks for the URL 13:51:08 hmm 13:52:00 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 13:52:01 billitch [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has joined #lisp 13:53:07 it works here, on four different browsers 13:54:22 I see a blank box with a question mark to the right 13:54:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-16.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:54:33 -!- C-Keen [ckeen@pestilenz.org] has left #lisp 13:54:40 maybe cookie problem 13:54:54 ah, that's it 13:55:53 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-32.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 I'm very happy about this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111527 13:59:05 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.104] has joined #lisp 13:59:33 LiamH: btw, it you have a bare repository in public_html/git/ and you create a file named "clnet_remote" inside containing the remote url from which to fetch, a c-l.net con job will mirror it for you every 15 minutes 14:00:32 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:36 LiamH: /usr/local/bin/make-git-mirror makes that easy 14:02:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:44 fe[nl]ix: so I can remove my hourly cron? 14:02:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:49 yes 14:03:24 so do I need to delete the old repo? 14:04:02 is CAPI not a protocol ? 14:04:09 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 14:04:31 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:39 LiamH: you can just create the file manually, or delete + make-git-mirror 14:04:58 LiamH: it would be better if you made the repository a subdir of public_html/git/ 14:05:43 fe[nl]ix: it is now, in /project/gsll/public_html/git 14:05:47 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:04 G'morning all. 14:06:12 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:20 hi nyef 14:06:29 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:07:43 oh, it put it in my home directory 14:07:46 LiamH: I still see the old repo in public_html/git/ 14:08:28 fe[nl]ix: I'm lost. 14:08:29 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:09:16 How do I undo a "make-git-mirror" command? 14:10:36 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.40] has quit [Quit: tfb] 14:10:53 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.40] has joined #lisp 14:11:15 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:43 LiamH: if successful, it creates a .git directory in the current directory. you can delete it 14:13:46 OK I have four projects in /home/lhealy/public_html/git; I will check http://common-lisp.net/gitweb in about 15 minutes to see if they're there. 14:16:27 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-142-199.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:18:29 LiamH: actually, git mirrors are updated every 30 minutes and gitweb configuration every 15 14:18:49 -!- abend [~alx@76.76.146.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:19:05 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sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:38 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.80.92] has joined #lisp 15:50:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:14 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.155.40] has joined #lisp 15:57:15 -!- knobo [~user@fcnoos-nd-fw01.freecode.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:58:40 fe[nl]ix: where is the file 'description' to name the repository? 15:58:54 in the repository itself 15:59:03 ah, OK 15:59:28 Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:59:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:00:01 -!- benny [~user@i577A315B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:00:54 alama [~alama@173-21-157-191.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] 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quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-66-229.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 16:30:53 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-66-229.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:58 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:31:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:59 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-10.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:39:18 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.104] has joined #lisp 16:41:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:41:21 go nyef go! 16:41:36 hey Athas, done any mcclim hacking lately? 16:42:35 -!- ZabaQ [~johnc@playboxgames.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:58 -!- rntz [~rntz@c-98-248-34-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:31 carlocci [~nes@93.37.207.53] has joined #lisp 16:43:37 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:50 -!- rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: rlb3] 16:45:21 why is Alpha "the nastiest" architecture wrt. threading ? 16:45:22 Does lisp have a stdlib or site where you can browse packages, like Python's pypi? 16:45:27 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:41 ldlework: i don't know anything about pypi, but the standard, built-in things are described by the hyperspec 16:46:50 ldlework: http://l1sp.org/cl/ redirects there 16:47:15 ldlework: there isn't, as far as i know, a unified browser-type thing for third-party libraries and applications. 16:47:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-66-229.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:47:35 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 fe[nl]ix: Because it has the least sophisticated cache synchronization, so there's this dependent-read barrier that needs to be accounted for. 16:48:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:59 Xach: that surprises me honestly. You'd think there'd be a lot of third-party lisp at this point. That no one has made it accessible... I'm just surprised 16:49:21 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 16:49:47 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-208.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:48 ldlework: to do that, the libraries would have to have documentation at all, *and* in a common format 16:49:51 that's too much 16:49:55 ldlework: There's a decent amount of third-party lisp. There's a shortage of people and hours to make it easier for everyone. Several people seem to be working on making it easier. 16:50:06 rntz [~rntz@c-98-248-34-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:10 *Xach* is working to make it easier, but lacks time 16:50:46 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:00 If lisp had a package distribution...package then you could make a site like Python's Package Index. easy_install is a sure fire win 16:51:32 And they don't all share a standard documentation, and as far as standardized packagaing that's up to the package maintainer - if they want to participate. 16:51:35 We know. But, again, it's a lot of work. 16:52:02 agreed. 16:52:04 ldlework: it's a non-trivial problem, the solution space is huge, and manpower available is small 16:52:23 ldlework: so we have to get by with what people write in their spare time 16:52:38 which quite often they would probably spend in other ways :) 16:52:42 I understand how it works 16:54:41 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-66-152.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:31 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-208.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:57:21 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:57:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:25 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-66-152.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:04:49 caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:02 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 Is there a way to stick an element on the end of a collect in finally with (iter...) besides nconcing it? 17:09:28 <_8david> no _good_ way. (... (unless helper-var (setf helper-var (lambda (x) (collect x)))) finally (funcall helper-var 123)) works. 17:09:48 <_8david> Perhaps REITERATE will allow COLLECT in FINALLY? 17:11:12 Thanks. I was reading the output of macroexpand, and the epilogue runs in the scope of the last elt pointer, but I wondered if there was a kosher way of doing this. 17:11:53 I've not seen REITERATE. Is that a futher hack on Amsterdam's code? 17:13:05 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 17:19:03 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-165-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:12 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:14 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:24:15 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:25 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:39 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:29:30 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 _8david: (iter (for el :in-vector #(a b)) (collecting el) (finally (collecting 42))) => (A B 42) 17:32:01 caoliver: rewrite with mostly compatible api but without the bugs: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.reiterate;a=summary 17:32:59 (I also figured I can use (when (collect asdfy2k 17:53:19 lol 17:54:16 only 10 years late! 17:54:16 Fare, memo from jcowan: Speak to me of reproducible builds, please. 17:54:38 i'm having trouble using clsql with sbcl 1.0.39.16. it can't compile clsql-uffi. here's the full error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111541 any idea how to resolve this? 17:54:40 Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:07 jbd: The backtrace makes it look like it's trying to make a database connection at compile time. 17:56:17 jbd: I don't know why, sorry. 17:56:59 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.186.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 17:57:55 Xach: i think that's because i received the error when running (clsql:connect ...) 17:58:27 are the connection credentials correct? 17:58:55 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:58:59 Xach: it's the other way around: clsql:connect tried to load an ASDF system :D 17:59:35 Fade: they were. i anonymized them before posting 17:59:42 also, if you're on a debian derrived system, do you have the -dev packages for your db installed? 17:59:45 same error in both cases 18:01:54 Fade: i installed libmysqlclient15-dev, same error :( 18:02:15 install the -dev packages for the server and try again.. 18:02:35 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 18:02:44 i only use postgres, so I'm not sure how the mysql connector works. 18:03:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:16 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-hgrauveoyszeyfhi] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 <_8david> jdb: paste the actual compilation error, please, not the useless slime backtrace buffer 18:05:48 <_8david> *jbd 18:06:02 Fade: i didn't see any other dev packages for mysql 18:06:14 <_8david> attila_lendvai: nice 18:06:38 p libmysqld-dev - MySQL embedded database development files 18:07:02 that's on an ubuntu machine, but a debian box should have a similar package. 18:08:20 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-10.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 18:08:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 _8david: here's the error http://paste.lisp.org/display/111541#1 18:09:53 <_8david> jbd: cffi-uffi-compat is probably the key phrase her. 18:10:07 <_8david> jbd: get rid of cffi-uffi-compat and install real uffi, that might help 18:10:31 <_8david> (If clbuild is involved, my apologies. I should enable real uffi there.) 18:10:48 pickles1 [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:49 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:12:34 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-hgrauveoyszeyfhi] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:16:07 Does anybody know of a common-lisp team being organized for ICFP 2010? I'm looking for a team to join 18:16:30 there are almost always at least a couple of lisp teams. 18:16:58 when the irc channel opens sometime probably today, ask there. 18:18:40 what is ICFP ? 18:19:05 http://icfpcontest.org/2010/ 18:20:40 astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-124.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:22:32 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:27:48 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-48.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 good evening everyone 18:28:37 we fe[nl]ix 18:30:05 hello Blkt :) 18:30:10 we astalla 18:30:16 how are you? 18:30:18 hi Blkt 18:31:13 I'm fine, though I'm Lisping less than I'd want :) 18:31:32 argh...:D 18:31:38 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082FADF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 I'm lisping hard these days, I have a few university project due to next week 18:32:23 lucky you :) 18:32:33 or unlucky, you decide :) 18:32:39 and, at last, I managed to choose the language by myself, without cohercion from ignorant teachers 18:33:04 the latter 18:33:13 no sorry 18:33:13 former 18:33:23 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082F61C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33:23 whatever, I feel lucky! 18:33:29 good 18:33:35 I still hate myself for not doing my 3-yr thesis in Lisp but in Java... 18:33:47 I did the same... 18:33:57 although the teacher would probably have been fine with Lisp... 18:34:22 my teacher wanted me to do it in Java 18:34:27 noi-38 [~user@95.214.25.64] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 I needed a GUI, and I didn't know Lisp well enough to adventure in doing GUIs in it. 18:34:33 she said "because I don't know any other language" 18:34:43 Had I known abcl, I would have used that ;) 18:35:01 since I know Swing quite well 18:35:10 _8david: i installed uffi, but how do i make clsql use it instead of the uffi compat library? 18:35:11 clojure is pretty attractive for java targets. 18:35:54 heh, I'm on the competitor's side ;) 18:36:01 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:14 I think Clojure is still a bit too immature lacking any kind of debugging facility, but yes, is hell attractive 18:36:34 and a good startup for newcomers 18:36:41 I don't like it being so tied to Java... 18:36:53 it's not CL, that's all 18:36:54 same here astalla. 18:36:55 <_8david> jbd: the uffi.asd symlink is what matters 18:37:12 e.g. I don't like its error handling is done with exceptions. 18:37:40 port installed 18:39:21 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 18:40:40 -!- noi-38 [~user@95.214.25.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:48 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:48 noi-38 [~user@95.214.46.87] has joined #lisp 18:46:01 -!- caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:49 -!- alama [~alama@173-21-157-191.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: alama] 18:50:09 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:50:14 alama [~alama@173-21-157-191.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:25 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:51:43 knobo [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:58 -!- noi-38 [~user@95.214.46.87] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:55:50 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:56:25 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 18:58:45 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e75e5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 19:01:04 pnq [asdf@ACA37056.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:03:16 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2027D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:39 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:10:40 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:12:12 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-208.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 19:15:45 aw [~aw@p5DDA8F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:21:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:22:58 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:14 -!- pickles1 [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 19:26:44 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:28:42 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:24 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-20-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:33:48 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@webdesk.niu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:10 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:41 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:58 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:35:55 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 19:36:11 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-86-101-32-45.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 19:36:18 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:38:13 -!- astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:11 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA37056.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:47:22 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`away 19:48:22 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:56 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.150.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:55:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:35 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e3e3f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 19:59:44 -!- laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has left #lisp 19:59:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:45 laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 20:01:29 hi, I managed to build plplot on windows and trying now to use cl-plplot. I get an error when compiling it: "Undefined alien: "plimage". Any idea what's wrong? 20:01:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:08 Is there a "plimage" entry point in the DLL? Is the DLL actually loaded? 20:02:10 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 nyef: yes, the dll is loaded, going to check its entry points. 20:07:21 I asked yesterday, but missed any replies... what is the current state of sbcl on windows? 20:07:51 Fade: It apparently still works, and someone is working on threading support. 20:07:56 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has left #lisp 20:08:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:08:57 cool 20:09:14 are you working on threads for PPC/Linux | OSX? 20:09:16 At the same time, I expect that none of the main SBCL developers actually uses windows on any kind of a regular basis, so.. 20:09:20 PPC/Linux. 20:09:27 awesome. 20:09:47 Right now I'm sorting out my patch series so it doesn't break other targets as best I can. 20:10:09 I've hit a bit of a snag on the PPC threads, though, and that's the complete lack of memory barriers. 20:10:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 20:10:30 ... Why is my binding stack pointer 0x72? 20:10:47 is the clozurecl approach too different from sbcl's to take clues there? 20:11:18 I don't know. I don't even know what ccl does. 20:11:19 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:11:27 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 20:11:38 At the same time, I'd almost expect it to be centered around a PPC-specific memory model. 20:12:03 If they're doing any lockless sync in the first place. 20:12:15 I haven't investigated it, but ccl threads on all platforms it builds 20:12:49 Why is my binding stack pointer -0x72-?!? 20:12:53 -!- knobo [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:01 alas, I have no idea 20:13:49 knobo [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 is the memory model on PPC similar to mips or sparc or alpha? 20:15:47 or arm for that matter? 20:16:05 Fade: I'm using sbcl on windows :-) 20:16:07 Not so far as I know, no. 20:17:08 What I'm proposing to do is take the linux kernel approach, set up for the alpha model, and then have anything unnecessary compile out to nothing. 20:17:19 is the threading stuff in SBCL highly Linux centric, and/or is it simply impossible to base it on, say, pthreads? 20:17:34 ahhhh. that's clever. 20:17:35 It'll probably be a bit overweight for PPC, but should be a touch future-proof. 20:17:56 hypno: It's been ported to (some of?) the various BSDs, and darwin. 20:18:04 hypno: It's more that right now it's x86oid-centric. 20:18:24 (Yes, chunks of it -are- based on pthreads. It's actually a build-time option.) 20:18:33 nyef: there's no plimage entry, and actually there's no plimage(..) function in plplot sources. there are c_plimage and c_plimagfr and plimageslow. 20:19:00 laynor: That'd explain the error a bit, wouldn't it? Perhaps it's defined in a header somewhere to pick one? 20:19:39 (Similar to the winapi habit of defining both FunctionA and FunctionW and then using a define to pick one of them for Function.) 20:19:42 nyef: well, yeah. i've looked at the freebsd port playing to get it working on netbsd. netbsd unfortunatley lacks kernel support for gdt entries so that's a bitch, but it all strikes me as unusually hard somehow. ECL for example seems to have an easier model. but perhaps there's a tradeoff here i dont know about. 20:20:23 hypno: If you get a real computer instead, it'll magically sort itself out. :-P 20:20:32 lol 20:20:37 (GDT entries are only required on x86 systems, not x86-64.) 20:20:40 Hmm! 20:21:12 nyef: Ah, heh. 20:21:21 Should (declaim (declaration )) be a no-op? 20:21:30 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:21:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:59 *hypno* do have some real hardware: PA-RISC, SPARC64, POWER5 and even an old Alpha. :P 20:22:01 Alternately, the windows threading stuff apparently burns a bit of OS-supplied TLS data and takes an extra indirection to look it up at runtime. 20:22:29 The reason I ask is I'd like to unconditionally (declaim (declaration sb-ext:muffle-conditions)), but it triggers a package lock on sb-ext. 20:22:38 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:56 *Xach* is probably SOL regardless of the interpretation of flexibility 20:23:06 nyef: indeed, found a define -_-' 20:23:08 Or some time ago my attempt at making windows threading happen was to scare up a dedicated TLS register out of one of the GPRs. 20:23:19 nyef: I have a power3 box I could task if it'd help your work. 20:23:46 Fade: Actually, I think things are presently well in hand. 20:23:53 cool 20:24:19 Want to do the Alpha version? >:-) 20:24:48 I have an alpha 21064, but it onlyhas 512M of ram and I have no disk for it. 20:25:11 I wouldn't be adverse to throwing in on the effort 20:25:32 with the caveat that I've never worked at such a low level on modern hardware. :) 20:25:35 I don't have any usable alpha hardware, and little real reason to attempt fixing it up. 20:25:56 Fade: what memory type? 20:26:04 ecc simms, iirc. 20:26:18 it's a multia 20:26:35 full ECC (40bit) FP DRAM simms? 20:27:01 I believe so. they're the special DEC modules; they were a bitch to source, but this was all over a decade ago. 20:28:09 Fade: according to what I found, Multia runs 21066 20:28:20 boggles [boggles@funtoo/user/boggles] has joined #lisp 20:28:40 -!- boggles is now known as BOGGLES 20:28:43 anyone experience with cl-lex to write a lexer? 20:29:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:29:41 p_l: ahh. looks like you're right. 20:29:43 Fade: if I read correctly, unless you have 12MB modules, they are standard FP simms with 36bit parity or 40bit ECC 20:30:19 it's definitely not the ideal platform for sbcl dev work 20:30:25 but it's the only alpha cpu I have. 20:30:29 *p_l* has AS255 with its 2x2 memory channels 20:30:45 it's slightly (maybe more than slightly...) faster 20:30:47 if somebody wants to donate an axp box, I'll nail it to the internet on a fast connection. 20:31:42 at any rate, I'll be at my storage space this weekend. I'll try to dig it up. 20:31:52 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-124.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:58 it ran linux as a nameserver for a very long time, until the disk died. 20:32:46 Fade: if someone paid for transport, I could ship you my AS255 - you'd have to move memory from Multia to it and I'll probably dump the disks and do a security wipe on them, but it's got two 1G hard drives and I think I might grab some extra 20:33:07 how much does it weigh? 20:34:12 think old desktop PC 20:34:29 but lighter case (not the full-metal one as in some PCs) 20:34:45 ~20 kg? 20:34:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:03 probably. It only has serial console 20:35:19 firmware updated to latest, right now runs VMS 6.1H3 20:35:24 *nod* 20:35:28 where are you? 20:35:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-62-103.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:42 the machine is in Poland - that's the problem 20:35:57 ah, i'm in Canada. shipping would be pretty serious. :) 20:36:51 Fade: I found two on ebay, both in USA 20:37:03 the cheaper one is ~$800 20:37:04 If I can get my hands on a more modern alpha, i have Tru64 media, and obviously it could be made to run linux. 20:37:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:36 PWS600au, 21164 600MHz (so I guess it's an EV56), 1G ram, 2x36G Ultra 3 SCSI 10k, CD-ROM, DEC graphic card 20:39:01 4MB L2 cache (B-cache) 20:39:09 a gs12xx would be pretty ideal. 20:39:15 http://cgi.ebay.com/DEC-Digital-600au-PWS-SN-B3AAA-P6-Alpha-Unix-/140404845085?cmd=ViewItem&pt=COMP_EN_Workstations&hash=item20b0c7ea1d 20:39:45 Fade: ... you know that shipping a GS1280 would be probably quite close to costs of acquiring a single-cabinet Cray? :D 20:40:27 *Fade* chuckles 20:40:28 palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 yeah, well. :) 20:40:38 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:52 I have a full frame onyx system. 20:41:03 -!- palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:05 alas, no DC rail (yet) to power it up. 20:41:21 palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:30 -!- palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:31 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:55 Why the interest in Alpha machines? 20:41:59 this 600au is over 4000km away. 20:42:14 alpha is a kind of ur-architecture. 20:42:55 -!- laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has left #lisp 20:42:56 Fade: I found a GS140 20:43:02 Seriously, I have very little interest in making sb-thread work on alpha. 20:43:05 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-83.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:18 nyef: memory ordering testbed? 20:43:22 well, it is a dead platform. 20:43:28 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:38 if it gets ordering right on alpha, it gets it right everywhere ;-) 20:43:52 p_l: Surely that can be done with a proof-checker? 20:44:52 knobo` [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:32 maybe 20:46:24 Fade: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Compaq-DEC-Alpha-Servers-6-525-MultiProcessor-1-8400-/110545915572?cmd=ViewItem&pt=COMP_EN_Workstations&hash=item19bd0cceb4 20:47:04 -!- knobo [~user@82.89-10-22.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:21 yeah 20:47:41 does sbcl even build on alpha at this point? 20:48:40 ...and who cares? 20:49:20 Alpha owners of the world, unite! 20:49:33 the last version that debian that build on alpha is 1:1.0.29.11-1 20:50:44 it's been requested that it be removed from debian for alpha, mips, mipsel, powerpc, sparc. 20:50:45 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=585851 20:52:10 Interesting, though adding powerpc to the build list for current sbcl should be okay, really. 20:52:28 nyef: you should tell the maintainer to re-enable it then. 20:52:42 laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:12 I'm not sure why it was removed for ppc; it looks like it was successfully built on ppc usually. 20:53:19 build logs: https://buildd.debian.org/build.cgi?pkg=sbcl&dist=unstable 20:55:05 The build failure of 1.0.29 is rather odd-looking. 20:55:15 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-124.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:55:24 the failures in 1.0.31.0-1 look like sbcl bugs rather than environment problems 20:55:34 (but ppc succeeded there) 20:56:42 how can one run an sbcl "shebang script" when using clbuild? 20:57:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:36 Mmm. We don't really have anyone maintaining the alpha, mips, or sparc builds, so far as I know. 20:58:09 I thought there was a trivial alpha typo that was causing the build to fail, no? 20:58:10 Pr0teus [~chatzilla@146.164.32.99] has joined #lisp 20:58:22 Mips builds should be maintained because of mips2java. 20:58:42 is there an alpha emulator for x86-64 these days? 20:58:43 jcowan: lots of things should be done. very few of those actually are. :) 20:58:50 slyrus: I think qemu works? 20:58:50 which lets you run arbitrary MIPS code on the JVM. 20:59:30 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:40 ...or maybe not. 20:59:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:47 ARM, CRIS, i386, M68k (ColdFire), MicroBlaze, MIPS, PowerPC, SH4, SPARC and x86-64 emulation. 20:59:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:59:48 wait.. can sbcl make mips code? 20:59:53 Anyone here knows polarina ? 20:59:58 there's definitely a shortage of devs on non x86oid platforms. 21:00:12 dmiles_afk: it could not too long ago; if it can't now, it should be fairly easy to make it able to do so again 21:00:13 foom: qemu only does user emulation for linux 21:00:26 (regarding alpha) 21:01:11 i know it be nutty to sbcl->misp->jvm for the sake of JVM.. but ho knows 21:01:27 ES40 NCE & Personal Alpha do full emulation, as well as es40.org, but the first one is an alpha for a future commercial product and last one is horrible and near-abandoned, iirc 21:01:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:34 I tried building recent SBCL under qemu mipsel, but it took forever, didn't work (I forget why), and would have taken too much effort to debug. 21:01:36 !polarina 21:01:51 !bot? 21:02:17 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:28 If I had a real mips system that ran something more recent than linux 2.4, I might be more interested. 21:02:46 nyef: and that had enough memory? :D 21:03:26 i have quite a lot of mips64 stuff, but it's all > r10k which is problematic 21:03:45 nyef: I made it work! (kind of, I have to load plplot's driver dll manually, but it's already a success) The window with the plot opens up if I run sbcl from a terminal but it doesn't if I call the function from slime's inferior lisp. What's the issue with that? 21:03:58 Fade: how so? 21:04:56 p_l: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-sgimips/2000/06/29/0006.html 21:05:23 p_l: Swap space? 21:06:00 laynor: I have no idea when it comes to slime and windows, sorry. 21:07:06 nyef: I had a similar problem when trying to run climacs from slime iirc (on linux) 21:08:04 I guess I should just run sbcl on a terminal and connect to it instead of running it directly from emacs :/ 21:08:04 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:37 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:45 openbsd notably recently released builds that apparently run on some sgi systems with > r10k cpus. 21:08:56 so I dunno if that problem is actually destined to go away or not. 21:09:00 i suspect not. 21:09:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:54 pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has joined #lisp 21:10:23 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest97580 21:11:02 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:23 pnq [asdf@ACA2A043.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 whatever hardware makes you salivate, 10 years from now you can afford to buy it cheap on ebay. 21:14:31 -!- spec`away is now known as mrSpec 21:15:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:16:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:18:13 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 21:18:40 -!- alama [~alama@173-21-157-191.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: alama] 21:21:31 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:04 xinming [~hyy@115.221.46.82] has joined #lisp 21:25:15 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.249.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:49 Fare: that was the case for the Nintendo Entertainment System and me. 21:29:15 10 years from now I may well be dead. 21:30:29 or maybe you will be a vm running in a machine ;) 21:31:00 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:32:39 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:04 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:18 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:27 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:40:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-207-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:43:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:35 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2A043.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:57 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:44:32 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:44:57 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:33 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:15 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:08 Dawgmatix: unlikely 21:53:36 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:36 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:55:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:29 ... 0x72 again, even on a unithreaded build. 21:59:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.199.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:42 -!- ziggy__ [~ziggy@de2-as4544.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:57 mhm, trying ccl, it's hanging often when I use tab completion in slime 22:08:02 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 22:09:16 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:54 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:10:55 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:23 -!- laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:59 laynor [~user@109.76.33.182] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:47 really strange stuff :/ 22:18:07 -!- Guest51929 [~root@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:13 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:23 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:13 [mzm] [~ziggy@de2-as4544.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 22:23:31 is there a way to "makunbound" a constant? I'd like to avoid to restart the interpreter... 22:23:58 Just makunbound it? 22:24:10 Maybe declare it special? 22:24:15 it complaints (and I kinda agree with that) 22:24:17 (Well, proclaim it special.) 22:24:27 Is there a "do it anyway" restart? 22:24:43 what do you mean? 22:25:18 Well, if it complains and drops you to the debugger, there should be a set of restarts for leaving the debugger. 22:25:21 I get "Cannot proclaim a constant variable special" 22:26:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:27:11 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:27 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:28:28 Failing that, your next option is to destroy the symbol, if not the entire package, and re-create it. 22:28:48 (Well, not -destroy- in the case of the symbol, more like lose track of.) 22:29:00 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:32:13 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:13 -!- vadimtech [~vadim@80.47.167.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:36 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:47 pnq [asdf@ACA415E6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:47 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:35:54 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:03 -!- Pr0teus [~chatzilla@146.164.32.99] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:38:52 uhm, I'm not getting logical hosts (as in ccl docs). I can get the truename of "home:somefile.lisp" but I can't get the truename of "home:/somedir/somefile.lisp" or "home:somedir/somefile.lisp". 22:39:21 "home:somdir;somfile.lisp" maybe? 22:39:34 Err... With more #\e characters, of course. 22:39:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:03 (LPN directory components are separated by semicolons, per CLHS.) 22:41:37 copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has joined #lisp 22:43:12 nyef: thanks. I was looking on the hs too but it still feels "strange" documentation for me, hope it'll feel more natural soon :-) 22:43:28 Logical pathnames are strange anyway. 22:45:19 what's strange about them, apart from the different syntax? 22:46:03 The semantics are a bit odd. 22:46:23 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:03 For example, you can define that LISP files in a particular directory on a host go in one place on your underlying filesystem, while FASL files for the same directory on the host go somewhere else entirely. 22:47:05 The hyperspec is rigorous but difficult to easily assess 22:47:10 to me, but I'm a newb 22:47:33 Bookmarks, specbot, search tools, etc. 22:48:25 seems a very general mechanism 22:50:05 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 22:52:42 LPNs ain't strange! 22:56:15 Xach: But the hyperspec is? 22:57:44 Not strange 22:58:09 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:04:09 uhm, which lisp implementation would you suggest on windows? 23:04:24 I know a lot of people use LispWorks. 23:06:14 mhm, I'm a PhD student, no money for lispworks ^^; 23:08:35 they have a free slightly downscaled implementtion for students and experimenters. 23:10:52 Fade: mhm, reading about it, the heap size limitation could be a problem depending on how low it is (working on data mining). 23:11:08 sbcl/win32/threads FTW! 23:12:21 clozure cl apparently works okay on windows. 23:13:30 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:54 any useable Qt bindings out there? specially on win32 23:14:16 commonqt looks like the only one that works 23:14:19 and also, what is the consensus on C++ FFIs? 23:14:38 the consensus is that they're difficult and messy, I think. 23:14:54 C++ FFIs are obnoxiously complex, and never complete to the C++ ABI or semantics. 23:15:08 And can have to compile bits of C++ code themselves in places, apparently. 23:15:52 beslyrus, Fade: I'm currently using sbcl and today I started experimenting with clozure, sbcl is fine, but I'm getting floating point exceptions on cl-plplot's test plots, which doesn't look good - didn't have any on my code yet, but I would like to use cl-plplot for visualization. It could be the problem is not sbcl related, but can't tell because I can't get clozure to load dlls :( 23:16:23 I could test it with clisp maybe. 23:16:55 things like this make me glad I don't have to live with windows... at all. 23:18:07 Fade: yeah, I just switched back to windows, but I'm considering make my laptop dual boot again just for lisp development. 23:18:26 if C++ is messy, anyone has any ideas on how useable the myriad of XML based GUI description languages are? Microsoft and Gtk have options to create GUIs with XML, but I am not sure how they connect code 23:18:32 the commercial lisps are apparently very good. 23:19:03 if you're on a commercial operating system, perhaps that way maks sense. 23:19:29 Fade: ummm, the UI offerings are Lispy but not native or pretty, imo 23:19:35 at least in LW 23:20:03 Fade: yeah... I should talk with my supervisor maybe.. but in recession time I don't know what he will say. LW is pretty expensive 23:20:21 fusss: I was speaking to laynor's plight 23:20:25 oh 23:20:56 as far as QT bindings go, apparently commonqt is the horse that you'll have to ride. 23:21:24 Fade: require VC++, will need to download that first 23:21:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:33 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.186.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:21:37 Fade: and anyway I'll have to deploy on linux in the end.. That stuff should run on a cluster using cl-mpi ^^; 23:21:40 i have no idea if commonqt is even tested on windows. 23:21:53 _8david may be able to ellucidate. 23:22:23 laynor: must you use PLplot, or can you use any plotting library? 23:22:59 fusss: any decent one is ok :-) 23:23:10 laynor: you can go very far with other graphic libraries and your own algorithms 23:24:08 fusss: I'm mostly interested in scatter plots and arrows, and outputting to ps/pdf/svg and interactively 23:24:12 i think there's a package of cl bindings for dot 23:25:10 general x/y graphs and histograms too now that i think about it. 23:25:25 Fade: what's dot? 23:26:05 Yuuhi [~user@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:37 dot is part of graphviz, isn't it? 23:28:11 laynor: the file format for graphvis 23:28:57 laynor: my first instinct would be to print to a cl-gd buffer and save that to a file, then use an external cli tool to generate PDF 23:29:55 yeah, dot is part of graphvis 23:30:31 -!- Yuuhi [~user@p5483BDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:37 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.27] has joined #lisp 23:32:28 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-48.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: In respect and admiration of the spirit that lives in the computer.] 23:32:54 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:34:37 fusss: so cl-gd allows for both on-screen and to-file graphics? seems interesting :-) gooling for some screenshots 23:35:02 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:35:22 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-124.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 23:35:57 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 23:37:18 laynor: http://www.xach.com/lisp/vecto/ http://www.xach.com/lisp/skippy/ 23:37:22 those too 23:37:58 h_z12x [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-11-196.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:09 vecto is pretty low-level. i wish there was a DWIM charter for it. adw-charting is kinda but not quite what i imagine. 23:38:54 ch-image has some drawing primitives and export to tiff/jpeg/png 23:38:56 fusss: Have you seen the toy I'm making? 23:40:06 Xach: you're asleep? 23:40:18 slyrus: Technically 23:40:23 impressive 23:41:01 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: relocating] 23:42:20 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA415E6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:42:52 -!- Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 23:44:10 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:44:30 uhm, what about RCL? I'm using R for plotting stuff atm 23:45:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:45:18 (what annoys me about R is the ugliness at the language level :() 23:46:25 *Xach* prods fusss 23:51:21 bah 23:53:12 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:54:11 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 23:54:36 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:55:17 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-83.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:59:34 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2027D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:59:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp