00:00:59 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:11 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:02:53 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:03:59 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229113246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:04:12 Okay, time to try the stupidly obvious test: Does it still build on x86-64/linux like this? 00:04:17 Last time I ran into GC issues with cmucl, I ended up using the debugger and single-stepping lots of code and putting lots of formats in Lisp code and printf's in C code. 00:05:12 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 00:05:13 Last time I ran into GC issues with SBCL, I ended up staring at stack dumps until I realized what was going on. 00:05:40 (The stack wasn't getting scrubbed, so stale pointers were creeping into the live area.) 00:06:15 I don't even know that it's the GC this time, just that it happens post-first-triggered-GC. 00:06:45 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9EC44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:49 The faulting pointer doesn't even look valid to the GC logic, though I suppose the header word of #x00000001 might have something to do with it. 00:08:57 Isn't that the forwarding pointer marker? 00:09:34 ... Yes, it is. 00:09:36 Thank you. 00:09:48 So, it's an un-fixed-up pointer. 00:10:28 Which means, if I'm understanding correctly, that some roots aren't being scavenged correctly? 00:11:19 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 00:11:25 Maybe. You've kind of reached the limit of knowledge already. 00:12:13 You've just advanced mine, though. Thanks. 00:13:55 The next question then is, where is this missing root stored? 00:15:02 Some thread context? 00:15:40 rread_ [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:45 Pretty much has to be something thread-specific. 00:15:58 The interrupt contexts are all accounted for. 00:16:13 The control stack is accounted for... 00:18:54 nyef: still working on sbcl ppc? 00:19:01 off-by-one-word error on one of the locations perhaps? 00:19:17 so missing the end of the stack or something 00:19:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:19:49 Fare: Yeah. 00:19:51 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-fcfrqpoovsvvbwgf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:51 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 00:20:09 Fare: I can spawn a thread now, but the system can't survive make-target-2. 00:20:13 if you're not careful, SBCL might actually end up working well on 3 platforms soon. :) 00:20:21 (are ppc's still being produced, or is it a legacy platform already?) 00:20:29 they're still produced. 00:20:45 ...not in a consumer desktop form factor though, afaik. 00:20:47 It's apparently popular for embedded, mainframe, and supercomputing applications. 00:21:22 Does a PS3 with a keyboard count as a desktop form factor? 00:21:31 not produced anymore 00:21:44 ... Really? 00:21:53 well, PS3s are, but you can't run linux on them anymore 00:22:03 Yeah, like that'll last. 00:22:16 well, previously it was officially allowed 00:22:22 Now, if someone gets it to work, it'll be a hack 00:22:30 not really the same thing. 00:22:40 I wish someone would hack a PS2 into running Linux 2.6. :-/ 00:23:08 _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 ... Aren't the oldspace pages supposed to get wiped once they're evacuated? 00:24:21 Or is that a somewhat lazy process? 00:29:37 peddie [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:54 minion: memo for stassats: the slime mode-line looks a bit funny (http://imagebin.org/101487) for (in-package #-gcl #:maxima #+GCL "MAXIMA"). 00:29:54 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 00:30:02 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-160-245-238.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:05 It doesn't look like it'd be an off-by-one with respect to the tls slots... 00:30:32 And the extra slots in the thread structure aren't heap pointers. 00:33:14 On cmucl, it looks like the oldspace pages are freed after collecting a generation. 00:33:19 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:34:01 Yeah, that's beginning to bug me: Why can I -see- the broken heart? 00:34:32 Maybe you need to sleep on it? :-) 00:35:24 maxigas [~user@84.13.174.85] has joined #lisp 00:35:34 nyef: is your gc checker seeing it? 00:37:06 Fare: No, but it only checks the internal consistency of the heap and binding stacks. 00:40:03 nyef: I have a paper on a DSL to check heap invariants at GC time, with guaranteed linearw complexity, and an implementation for java; want a link? 00:40:21 how can I print an error condition? I would like the explanation like "Odd number of keyword arguments" instead of # 00:40:46 pkhuong: Sure, though I doubt I'll implement it soon. 00:44:19 pkhuong, an implementation for which jvm? 00:46:17 ah, simple-condition-format-control & -arguments 00:47:29 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 00:49:12 ignotus: Note that that only applies to simple-conditions, not to custom conditions. 00:50:01 nyef: I see, thanks 00:50:24 nyef: can't you use these accessors for your own conditions? 00:51:25 Not sure. 00:51:33 But they're certainly not guaranteed to work. 00:51:43 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 00:52:23 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:18 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 00:56:45 ignotus: use princ or its ilk 00:58:39 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-54.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:00:32 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:00:42 -!- rme [rme@clozure-70A3CE26.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:00:42 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:01:52 -!- _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: _JFT_] 01:02:18 nyef: do you still want another desk check? 01:03:02 i'll check back in a few hours and see if you still can use another pair of eyes. 01:03:02 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:41 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07:23 george__ [~george@189.107.138.247] has joined #lisp 01:08:37 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.146.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:10:50 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:58 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-tcpsabyrwonllmtc] has joined #lisp 01:11:58 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:35 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:13:02 Hunh. Okay, oldspace pages aren't wiped until they're reallocated, and aren't read-protected unless a compile-time option is turned on. 01:16:06 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:18:32 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.138.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:41 george__ [~george@189.107.150.177] has joined #lisp 01:19:09 -!- george__ is now known as summersault 01:19:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:21:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:23:32 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:03 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:13 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.241.37.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:26 -!- maxigas [~user@84.13.174.85] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:33:03 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.240] has joined #lisp 01:35:07 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:06 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-10-74.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:37:04 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:07 -!- dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:59 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:42:09 goner [~goner@unaffiliated/goner] has joined #lisp 01:42:35 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:50 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 01:46:26 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:15 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:50 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:26 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:53:35 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:58:38 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:41 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zuthznbnfewjsash] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:30 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:00 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9EC44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 02:03:10 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-jwwdmgkkhyzccbpp] has joined #lisp 02:07:53 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:07:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:32 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:11:19 I think I found it. 02:11:47 scavenge_interrupt_contexts(struct thread *th) pulled the -global- symbol value for FREE_INTERRUPT_CONTEXT_INDEX. 02:11:52 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:12:42 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:13 Two and a half days for a hack estimated at half a day. And, in retrospect, I can see why my estimate was off, and how much of it I should have realized beforehand. 02:17:55 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:19:13 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:22:11 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:35 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:29 Umm... How long are the sb-concurrency tests supposed to take? 02:23:57 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:06 <_3b> depends on OS scheduler 02:24:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:03 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:25:16 Test queue.t.1 seems to be taking its own sweet time. 02:25:17 -!- aw [~aw@p57AA822E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:37 At least, I -think- that's the test that's going now. 02:26:06 <_3b> if it hasn't been patched yet, i think it was something like 10000 times whatever the scheduler granularity 02:26:30 Ouch. Looks like it. 02:26:46 That has to hurt on a tickless system, doesn't it? 02:27:06 <_3b> i'd assume those have the high res timer support 02:27:15 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:25 <_3b> what is bad is systems scheduling at 100hz 02:27:33 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:28:27 Looks like I've got CONFIG_NO_HZ and CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS set, and CONFIG_HZ is 300. 02:28:39 And CONFIG_SCHED_HRTICK. 02:29:06 <_3b> grep resolution /proc/timer_list 02:29:26 <_3b> i think that was how to figure out the HR timer resolution 02:29:40 Four lines of " .resolution: 1 nsecs". 02:29:52 <_3b> should finish quickly then i think 02:30:00 I've already killed the SBCL for having taken too long. 02:30:49 ... Wha? Lock-free FIFO queues? 02:31:14 Damnit, nikodemus, how the heck is this supposed to work on non-x86oids?!? 02:31:58 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:32:14 *_3b* would be curious to see how it interacted with the precise GC, assuming it works at all 02:32:30 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 02:34:02 Yeah, this clearly isn't thread-safe without the VOPs. 02:37:35 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:09 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 02:39:24 *rtoym* looks at some timing numbers from cmucl running on a 486-66. 02:39:51 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 02:40:27 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-102-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:21 That poor CPU! 02:41:33 ans` [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 02:42:21 Heh. And there are numbers for a sparc20 and an Ultra 30 to compare against too! 02:42:31 -!- ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:12 Well, only eight contribs failed to build. That's not bad. 02:46:01 -!- ans` [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:46:02 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:25 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:47:00 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:48:28 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:28 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 02:48:55 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:02 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:53:34 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:55 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:55:08 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55:53 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:50 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:36 sorry to do this, but ping - am i getting though? 03:01:15 No, you're not. 03:02:28 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:58 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:04:37 thx 03:05:31 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:09 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:03 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:04 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:16:13 -!- pnq [asdf@172.163.126.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:16:24 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:08 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:03 nyef: anyone interested in sb-concurrency test failing? 03:18:05 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 pnq [asdf@AC82066D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:12 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:45 tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has joined #lisp 03:20:07 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:09 p_l: Failing from timeout, or for other reasons? 03:20:32 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:20:56 nyef: I'll tell you after I finish new rebuild 03:21:14 Heh. Fair enough. 03:21:36 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:22:58 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:24:37 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:27:35 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 03:32:16 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:59 emma: what's that channel again? 03:36:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:38:02 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:31 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:18 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:10 maden [~maden@modemcable238.203-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:44:14 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.240] has joined #lisp 03:45:23 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:03 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:57 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:39 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:53:48 nyef: what was the command to get information on current CVS version? 03:54:07 ah, got it 03:54:49 hmmm... lisppaste isn't reporting pastes? 03:54:51 http://paste.lisp.org/+2E0T 03:55:33 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 03:55:38 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:28 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:09 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.205.25] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:00:29 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 04:00:45 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 04:06:15 good morning 04:07:22 Eek. It -is- morning. 04:07:59 I'm going to bed. If slyrus comes back, could someone please let him know that I don't need that desk-check after all? Thanks. 04:08:03 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:11:44 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:43 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.150.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:13:44 george_ [~george@189.107.130.45] has joined #lisp 04:14:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:14:17 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.141.127] has joined #lisp 04:14:58 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable238.203-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:46 Brucio-12 [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:50 -!- Brucio-12 is now known as beslyrus 04:16:52 evening 04:17:02 -!- george_ is now known as summersault 04:17:05 evenin' 04:17:18 morning 04:17:18 stassats, memo from leo2007: the slime mode-line looks a bit funny (http://imagebin.org/101487) for (in-package #-gcl #:maxima #+GCL "MAXIMA"). 04:19:44 beslyrus: are you slyrus? 04:19:54 that's not easy to fix 04:20:16 I'm going to bed. If slyrus comes back, could someone please let him know that I don't need that desk-check after all? Thanks. 04:20:16 04:20:29 slyrus on BEirc? 04:23:58 stassats: what;s the bug anyway? 04:24:39 Sounds like the kind of magic nowadays eschewed 04:25:35 i don't think it's a bug, if you will evaluate everything inside in-package, you may encounter something like (in-package #.(wreck-havoc-and-delete-all-files)) 04:26:40 There's stuff in slime-parse to cope with reader conditionals 04:26:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:01 stassats: (read-from-string "(in-package .. 04:27:20 with null READ-EVAL 04:37:30 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:12 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:39:58 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:06 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:44:54 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 04:50:32 psilord1 [~psilord@76.201.144.224] has joined #lisp 04:50:54 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@76.201.144.224] has left #lisp 04:51:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ukswforfzkyhulha] has joined #lisp 04:51:54 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:54:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:34 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:56:00 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:32 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:05 ost: yes 05:01:31 thanks for the message 05:01:50 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 05:02:35 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B729.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:40 time for a reboot... 05:02:42 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 05:04:46 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C9BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:07:44 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:04 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:08:42 hmm... martin cracauer's last commit isn't showing up in the git mirror. 05:08:45 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:47 antifuchs: around? 05:09:06 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:09:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zcatbkmkbbitujsi] has joined #lisp 05:12:05 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:15:35 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-100-146-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 05:24:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:43 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:26 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:26:12 laynor` [~user@109.77.56.34] has joined #lisp 05:29:15 -!- laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:32:19 -!- pnq [asdf@AC82066D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:56 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 05:36:05 -!- laynor` [~user@109.77.56.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:15 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:36 -!- rme [rme@clozure-70A3CE26.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:36:37 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:38:01 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:26 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:40:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zcatbkmkbbitujsi] has left #lisp 05:43:14 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:54 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:58 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:46:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:00 -!- coyo is now known as bandu 05:47:01 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 05:51:53 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.141.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:16 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:00:16 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:03:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:20 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:34 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:52 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 06:11:12 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:10 deadboy [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 06:13:18 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:13:23 does any have snap4 (open genera) running on a current linux kernel? i can't get the network to work correctly, due to permissions and capabilities with the tun device 06:13:23 Can lisp be used to make web apps 06:13:46 deadboy: yes 06:13:49 Can lisp be used to make web aps 06:14:17 ecraven: networking works fine, it's X11 that fails - you might need a copy of some old X server 06:14:56 as for networking, grab some script to create a tun/tap device (the utility from VirtualBox is good enough) and configure snap4 to use it, then launch it as root 06:15:12 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:15:17 does any1 have an example of a lisp coded webpage 06:16:45 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:13 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:48 deadboy: Not an example, but collection of things to read (the first is a web server, the rest are tutorials): http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/ http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/09/getting-started-with-hunchento.html http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/10/doing-more-with-hunchentoot-cl-server.html http://roeim.net/vetle/docs/cl-webapp-intro/ 06:19:21 p_l: is there any chance brad parker will update snap4 to a snap5 that works with current x11? 06:20:06 ecraven: doubtful. Especially since it would require much more work than that just to get the X11 correct. Though I heard that OSX X11.app works fine, so if you can use that for a client... 06:20:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:20:20 Okay thanks I just never seen heard of a lisp web app or webpage and I heard Lisp was a pretty easy lang to start off with compared to java/php/ruby so wanted to create an easy llittle web app 06:20:31 oh, the x11 problems are with lisp, not the emulator? 06:20:37 deadboy: ... you heard bad. 06:21:04 yes 06:21:18 deadboy: Lisp is powerful, and it might be easy, but it's easy only to those who already know some stuff (there's a lot of things that you'd need to take care of that PHP won't even mention) 06:21:22 i heard lisp was very easy 06:21:33 it can be, and it can be very hard too ;) 06:21:34 PLT's Racket web servlets are really simple to get started with. 06:21:45 like........ print = 06:21:53 print = helloworld 06:21:55 right, PLT is rather easier to start with 06:22:00 deadboy: that's not lisp 06:22:08 i kno 06:22:11 looks a bit like haskell ;) 06:22:14 thats basic right lol 06:22:33 *toast`* wants a CL that's as dead-simple as PLT -- maybe they can add a CL dialect ... 06:22:46 PLT whats that praise the lord? 06:22:53 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:03 Pancetta, Lettuce and Tomato 06:23:03 never heard of PLT in my life 06:23:11 lol 06:23:12 the italian equivalent of a BLT 06:23:14 google plt scheme 06:23:18 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-28-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:23:19 google it 06:23:29 JFGIT 06:23:34 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:23:57 make sure to google for plt racket though 06:24:18 Anyone know a page done in pit racket 06:24:24 is there a vmware image with open genera available anywhere? 06:24:59 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-13-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:25 You here of all these easy languages but you never actually see them being executed 06:25:36 what about Curl or Lua 06:25:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 06:26:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:26:36 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 06:26:37 deadboy: scheme is not too hard, so plt racket might be a good place to start, as already suggested 06:27:01 what kind of web apps can i create 06:27:05 any kidn 06:27:12 would i better of learning javascript 06:27:14 *kind 06:27:30 I suggest you first learn programming at all, because I have a feeling you lack the very basics 06:27:47 so you'd be very very lost 06:28:00 (JS is a good choice for client-side web, though) 06:28:55 anyone here familiar with cxml-stp? I'm getting a behavior that simply doesn't make any sense to me. 06:29:33 I know javascript just cant write web apps 06:29:51 is racket server side 06:30:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111491 06:30:50 deadboy: racket would work server side 06:31:09 easier than php 06:31:52 not necessarily. There's a lot of stuff that might go different 06:32:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:34:37 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-45-112.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:36:55 does this channel have any bots that evaluate expressions? 06:37:12 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:08 ah, I figured it out; it's xhtml namespaces 06:38:52 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 06:40:01 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:40:01 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:17 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 06:43:47 toast`: no 06:44:15 ... would it be desirable to have one? 06:44:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:44:31 toast`: no 06:45:03 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78-131-24-76.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:45:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78-131-24-76.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:45:42 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:45:44 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 06:45:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fmygralqidqkzwbc] has joined #lisp 06:46:08 sorry, i can't judge inflection over irc to detect sarcasm. what's wrong with an eval bot? it can be helpful for instruction 06:46:44 #haskell have one, it seems quite useful 06:46:52 and #scheme 06:46:55 and #C++ 06:47:01 ##C++? 06:47:23 i think it does at least 06:47:32 yes 06:47:33 geordi 06:48:05 I think we had one for an hour or two. 06:48:07 morning 06:49:02 toast`: Personally I find the eval bots annoying. Take #haskell for example. It is being played with so much you need to put it on /ignore to stay sane. 06:49:50 yeah, i stay out of #haskell. They talk way too much in there. They even have to run a couple of overflow rooms due to too much interest 06:50:22 attila_lendvai: is dwim.hu down? 06:55:31 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:55:44 good morning 06:57:29 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 06:58:02 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:26 beslyrus: seems like the VPS went off again... it goes on 100% CPU and becomes unresponsive. will tell the guys to kick it, but it'll take a while 07:01:09 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 07:01:15 Good afternoon! 07:02:02 hey beach 07:02:40 'morning 07:02:51 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:03:24 beslyrus: Hey. I saw your email to mcclim-devel. 07:03:25 <_8david> beslyrus: arguably the main/wnpp-projects distinction is a bit moot. 07:04:18 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:15 fair enough... 07:06:26 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:06:29 <_8david> There are projects (and you've found such a case) where a project I consider to be of very high quality depends on a library that I don't believe has a great feature... 07:06:41 hello plage 07:06:42 <_8david> *future 07:07:47 so I would think the right thing to do would be for clbuild to pick up the dependency on trivial-backtrace and dtrt 07:13:56 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 07:15:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:15:48 <_8david> To check out hunchentoot, my recommendation is to do "clbuild install hunchentoot". 07:15:54 <_8david> "clbuild install --main-projects" is a weird Luke-compatible feature from the distant past. 07:18:23 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:32 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:36 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 07:25:31 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 07:25:36 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.130.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:30:56 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:34:05 The error I am getting in http://paste.lisp.org/display/111471 occurs in SBCL but the same code produces sane result in CCL. 07:35:39 fp traps are set after running foreign code 07:35:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:37:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:12 you can mitigate it by doing (sb-int:with-float-traps-masked (:underflow :overflow :invalid :divide-by-zero) ...) 07:38:16 adityo [~adityo@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 07:38:25 nostoi [~nostoi@126.Red-80-39-156.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:26 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-11-3.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:46:24 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 stassats: thanks. was able to get the same results as ccl with that. 07:46:56 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-28-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:50:02 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-54.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:51:09 ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has joined #lisp 07:51:21 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 07:55:00 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:18 ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has joined #lisp 07:57:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has 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[~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:27:41 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:28 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:35:44 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-47-119.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:07 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:13 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 08:37:10 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 08:40:39 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 08:42:27 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:44:46 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:47 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442118.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:46 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:48:37 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:49:48 hello 08:50:05 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441012.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:58:12 hello billitch1 08:59:20 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:59:48 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest40907 09:00:29 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 09:00:44 samerha [~samerha@80.90.169.33] has joined #lisp 09:01:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:32 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:10 -!- samerha [~samerha@80.90.169.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:50 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 09:15:28 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:37 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:16:11 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 09:17:16 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:58 -!- UnderTaLker [~bot@89.108.125.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:38 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:26:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:49 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:27:05 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 09:27:42 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:09 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 09:31:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:32:11 Mozart_ [~chatzilla@aalk236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:32:18 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.27] has joined #lisp 09:32:36 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:58 -!- Mozart_ [~chatzilla@aalk236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #lisp 09:40:58 ZabaQ [~johnc@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:24 a slot that you don't intend the user of a class to change because it is changed according to other slots (through after methods). Is it good style to still provide an accessor (for the convenience of the programmer)? 09:42:19 I have been using setf slot-value like this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225994 09:42:21 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:43:09 p0a [~user@athedsl-4373184.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:43:15 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:22 Hello is (list (pop l) (pop l)) guaranteed correct behavior? 09:43:31 Yes. 09:44:02 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:44:03 Does that mean I should expect (list (first l) (second l)) to be the value of the expression? 09:45:44 Yes. 09:45:56 ok thanks 09:45:57 CL specifies a left to right evaluation order. 09:45:59 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-74-49.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:17 (unlike scheme) 09:47:08 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:47:32 I used to think that was silly, but these days I think a well defined evaluation order is essential for any procedural language. 09:49:44 You could always have a macro that enforces it, right? 09:49:54 I mean, supposing it wasn't specified in Cl 09:50:57 laynor` [~user@109.78.122.126] has joined #lisp 09:53:00 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 09:53:04 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:53:25 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:25 -!- p0a [~user@athedsl-4373184.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:54:41 p0a: not really, you need a code walker to identify function applications and apply non-trivial transformations to the code 09:56:12 you'd have to basically curry all the functions in a non-trivial way... 09:56:41 p0a: It would require rewriting (foo (a) (b)) to (let* ((t1 (a)) (t2 (b))) (foo t1 t2)) 09:56:52 (at least assuming you are trying to keep it as function application with all of the forms like let etc. not having specified order) 09:56:56 p0a: Not a huge undertaking, but still ... 09:58:00 The real question should be -- does not defining the order buy you anything valuable enough to outweigh hidden bugs? 09:58:20 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:38 ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has joined #lisp 09:58:40 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:58:55 at least on first attempt, I can't imagine anything 09:59:22 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-50-164.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:16 Well, there are potential optimizations given a sufficiently intelligent compiler, but ... 10:01:32 I think I already mentioned fitting an AI into SBCL's compiler :P 10:03:04 Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has joined #lisp 10:03:37 good day everyone 10:03:43 still, SICs are pipe dream so far 10:04:59 ave Blkt 10:06:09 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:28 antifuchs: is there something wrong with the git gateway ? stassats's last commits to Slime haven't been pulled 10:07:25 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 10:08:19 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:11:44 we fe[nl]ix 10:14:28 summersault [~george@189.107.148.224] has joined #lisp 10:16:07 fe[nl]ix: oh my 10:16:07 Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:09 leadnose [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 10:16:28 I was about to write how I don't remember seeing any error messages 10:16:31 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:16:36 then I realized that I'd turned off the gateway for that sbcl fix 10:16:47 should pull again in a couple of minutes 10:18:20 hahaha 10:20:54 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:22:43 where does this "Sufficently Intelligent Compiler" prhase originate? I've heard it a number of times.. 10:23:39 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SufficientlySmartCompiler 10:23:39 ZabaQ: in writings of most language committees? 10:26:16 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:18 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:26:53 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:24 segv [~mb@p4FC1A65E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:57 hi segv :) 10:30:30 anyone know of a grapics/plot library that can deal with gradients? i basically have a matrix of values, and i want a color plot? 10:30:34 fe[nl]ix: hello! 10:31:41 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-50-164.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:33:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:41 hypno: I use cl-plplot (plplot). 10:37:12 leo2007: ok, thanks. i'll check it out. 10:37:18 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-7-241.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:49 Directly into the body, but inserting into a div would not bother me. 10:39:57 Oops. 10:40:23 -!- Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:42:02 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 10:42:32 -!- Carnegie [~nn@studio25.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:33 ennen [~nn@studio25.org] has joined #lisp 10:45:58 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:47:09 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:50:23 pjb-work [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:43 Ok, I think I see how to solve this -- check the dimensions upon a scroll event. 10:52:55 Gah, I need to fix that. 10:55:22 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:58:04 Zhivago: What's the problem? 11:00:27 -!- Guest40907 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:00:29 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 11:01:06 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 11:04:35 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:04:51 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:05:24 fiveop [~fiveop@e179165232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:38 -!- laynor` [~user@109.78.122.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:49 does exist a pure lisp hierarchical database ? 11:09:31 kiuma: i suspect a simple version can be built quite fast 11:10:12 *p_l* notes that the database in PCL is quite well-featured compared to what one might expect from implementing a db in other language 11:10:29 kiuma: What is wrong with Lisp itself? 11:11:02 kiuma: Then you can build whatever graph you want, hierarchy or not. 11:11:15 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:12:40 <_8david> levente_meszaros: are you here? 11:13:09 _8david, yes 11:13:10 <_8david> Did you see my foreign key-related commit that Tomas pushed to rdbms and perec? 11:13:32 I assume to his branch, right? 11:13:37 no I didn't 11:13:42 <_8david> I just wanted to mention it, because the way Tomas pushed it, several of my commits got merged into one, which might make review of the patch it tiny bit more confusing that it needs to be. 11:14:03 <_8david> If you'd like, I could work to break it up again, but I wasn't certain what you overall stance on that patch is. 11:14:20 plage, p_l but this would generate a prevalence database 11:14:31 that would fit all in memory 11:15:30 <_8david> We discussed foreign keys briefly in London, and ISTR that you weren't opposed to the idea at least. I've worked to keep my changes backward compatible, so _by default_, the schema doesn't change. 11:15:41 kiuma: it would fit in "memory", but "memory" could contain lots of swap space on disk. 11:15:59 _8david, I don't mind, once I will have time to merge, I will have to go through all those patches (50 or so?!) anyway 11:16:01 <_8david> But in defassociation and slot definitions, you can _optionally_ declare a :foreign-key-action, and then perec will emit that as a constraint. 11:16:25 plage, but swap does not discriminate 11:17:15 5/win 12 11:17:47 since I'm writing the imap4 cli , I want to store all messages in a hierarchical way for every account 11:18:00 <_8david> The other part what ended up in the patch is ddl.lisp, which is basically just a function to write data definition SQL statements to a file. It's kind of like export-to-rdbms, except that it writes the statements to the file instead committing them to the DB. It's useful for setting up databases beforehand in an SQL script. 11:18:08 I'll use it to provide fast message folding 11:18:38 <_8david> If you manage to work your way through our stuff, please just let me know whether I should split the fkey and ddl stuff into two patches, or whether it can stay as one. 11:18:48 and will also be able to index and search for messages (bypassing the slow imap search command) 11:19:03 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:20:06 <_8david> You mentioned inheritance as a possible issue with foreign keys, but the only problem I had were abstract classes -- obviously no key can point to those. Otherwise inheritance seems to work. 11:20:28 _8david, I don't care about the number of patches, but I might move some part of the code and/or do renames 11:20:30 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:21:13 _8david: we'll review all the changes, fast or slow, cleaning things up if something feels like a quick solution only, etc... so, don't waste time on _recovering_ patch finegrainedness. 11:21:14 _8david, not in the general case where you can use the :direct-store class option to specify where to store slots 11:22:29 i've already pushed a few changes here and there, but we need to concentrate on a contract for a week or two, so everything substantial was and will be delayed before that 11:24:02 thatdavidmiller [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:53 <_8david> cool. I'm not in a hurry with any of this obviously, just wanted to let you know what the ideas behind the changes are. 11:24:54 there may be multiple tables used to store the slots of a class and having a foreign key constraint to point to the oid in one of them does not help much, right? 11:25:48 btw, there's (signal-broken-references) and (signal-broken-instances) to check for DB integrity 11:28:13 <_8david> ah, that's the thing you mentioned which you're calling before transaction commit? Sounds useful, although we're using keys everywhere now (and don't use inheritance a lot), so in theory those should never trigger for us anymore. 11:29:44 unless you use the "leaky" abstractions, that is direct SQL :) 11:29:57 Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:32:33 *p_l* was thinking of dropping the "typical" ORM approach and just go with funcallable-instances for queries 11:33:46 *levente_meszaros* thinks the leaky abstraction thingie is overrated 11:34:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:13 -!- deadboy [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:38:41 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179165232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:40:30 fiveop [~fiveop@e179163116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:45:22 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:48 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 11:47:57 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:46 deadmanwalking [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:01 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:55:48 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.148.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:49 looks like SCL too can compile SBCL on sparc. needs a bit of bruteforce as in compiling interactive tho. 11:56:26 ans` [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 11:56:51 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:58:54 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:58:57 summersault [~george@189.107.198.9] has joined #lisp 12:00:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:54 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 12:04:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:52 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:08:01 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 12:09:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:42 G'morning all. 12:12:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:12:45 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 12:13:48 howdy nyef 12:15:01 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:19:47 hi nyef 12:21:58 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:22:46 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:47 I managed to get one more contrib to build by fixing a bit that I knew I skipped, and now I'm working on the compare-and-swap stuff. 12:27:31 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:05 neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@220-133-190-142.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:16 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:48 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:37:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:17 Pepe__ [~ppjet@ALille-256-1-134-205.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:39:43 nak [~wut@unaffiliated/nak] has joined #lisp 12:39:58 It is my understanding the in Lisp, there isn't a distinction made between code, and data, am I right in assuming this? 12:40:46 No, but the distinction is different than in most other languages. 12:40:50 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:58 (The boundary is a lot more fluid.) 12:41:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:12 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:41:13 nak: Isn't code data which happens to be executed? 12:42:19 nyef: Trying to learn elisp, on the side -- caught (setq object '(bitch slap my pimp)) where we have an apparent code/data distinction 12:42:22 or happenes to be compiled 12:42:29 but i understand what you mean nyef 12:42:51 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:29 nak: By the QUOTE, you say that the following list is NOT supposed to be executed 12:43:34 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 12:43:38 unlike C, Java, Python, etc., where code is an unstructured sequence of tokens that happens to be compiled. 12:44:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fmygralqidqkzwbc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 tcr: hmm my elisp documentation doesn't agree 12:44:33 Why do you think it does not? 12:44:34 tcr: it says that this quote is required in order for the elisp interpreter to switch into data mode. 12:44:38 *kiuma* really likes imap and it's lispy rensponses :) 12:44:51 nak: How do you think that's different? 12:45:04 tcr: Now, since the list is data (i.e., we don't want the compiler to try and call a function called whiskey-bottle), we need to "flip" the compiler into Data mode when reading the list. The single quote in front of the list is the command that tells the compiler to flip 12:45:22 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:45:27 Okay, first attempt at building #!+compare-and-swap-vops. 12:45:37 tcr: could you elaborate further on what you mean 12:45:48 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:46:00 tcr: setq object is to be executed 12:46:12 nak: I mean "we don't want the compiler to try and call a function called whiskey-bottle" 12:46:18 oh, right 12:46:22 hehe sorry. 12:46:27 we're agreeing :) 12:46:30 nak: you should ditch thinking about "modes".. 'foo is simply a shorthand for (quote foo), and quote is a special operator returning the object it is passed 12:46:49 rrice [~rrice@99.164.36.81] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:47:02 -!- Pepe__ [~ppjet@ALille-256-1-134-205.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:16 adeht: so given multiple "lists", do we have to necessarily '(foo bar) ? 12:47:22 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:47:31 or is there a longhand for that also 12:47:43 nak: that's equivalent to (quote (foo bar)) 12:47:54 adeht: awesome 12:47:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jomqdtusggkuqphz] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 adeht: sorry, forgive me -- i'm a bit new to this 12:48:20 should've discovered it sooner heh. 12:48:28 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jomqdtusggkuqphz] has left #lisp 12:48:29 hopefully after elisp i can be ready for clisp :) 12:48:46 are they much different? 12:48:55 I'm afraid that's not the recommended way of doing it 12:49:10 tcr: doing what? 12:49:19 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.177] has joined #lisp 12:49:22 Learning elisp in order to learn Common Lisp 12:49:25 nak: I recommend just grabbing PCL and Emacs+Slime+SBCL :) 12:49:39 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:50:49 p_l: ok, what are those? 12:51:01 I've heard of Slime before 12:51:06 not quite sure what it is 12:51:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:51:23 minion: slime 12:51:24 slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 12:51:44 minion: tell nak about pcl 12:51:45 nak: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:51:56 also known as "dead-sexy book" 12:52:10 haha 12:52:37 SBCL is? 12:53:12 Steel Bank Common Lisp (aka "Sanely Bootstrappable" Common Lisp", afaik). One of the best open-source implementations, at least when it comes to Linux 12:53:34 ... For an instant there I read that as "Snidely Bootstrappable". 12:53:39 haha 12:53:43 p_l: how do you know I'm on linux? ;/ 12:53:43 aamouchi [aamouchi@41.201.67.166] has joined #lisp 12:53:53 nak: We don't, but we are. 12:54:08 nyef: heh 12:54:11 -!- aamouchi [aamouchi@41.201.67.166] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:29 nak: safe assumption given that you mentioned Emacs Lisp :P 12:54:48 SBCL works well on two platforms: x86/linux and x86-64/linux. The further you get from that, the less well it works. 12:55:05 nyef: how about BSD? 12:55:12 p_l: naw, elisp isn't linux centric 12:55:18 p_l: you can run it in windows now 12:55:19 ;] 12:55:36 nak: I used simple assumption on what environment might cause exposure to it 12:55:51 nyef: I'm usually x86 oriented, or at least run x86-64 where i have the acceptable hardware 12:55:59 then used arranged them according to popularity :) 12:56:06 I had a core 2 duo, with just about 2GB ram, it didn't perform as well as I'd hoped 12:56:33 p_l: BSD gets a little less love, and darwin even less. 12:56:34 p_l: a lot of analysis for the term "elisp" ;] 12:56:54 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 12:56:59 *p_l* hopes to grab some EV68 and try to force it to run in Athlon motherboard, since there are around 30 laying around... 12:57:01 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:57:15 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:57:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:38 HPPA gets absolutely the least support. 12:57:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:57:58 Pity that I already know that if I called HP Support they wouldn't really be astonished by such configuration (unless I called their "normal" support instead of the VMS one...) 12:59:02 I suspect that the preference order in terms of CPUs for SBCL is x86oids, ppc, sparc, mips, alpha, hppa. 12:59:09 talked with a former DEC guy who still does VMS, said that they had much crazier stuff than someone mating a RISC with a PC 13:02:05 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:15 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 13:03:55 And the -other- fix for step instrumentation is in, so one the compare-and-swap stuff is fixed I should have a few more contribs work. 13:05:18 -!- pjb-work [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:10:23 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:10:57 well, thanks 13:11:20 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-215.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:12:16 george_ [~george@189.107.167.194] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.198.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:10 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 13:17:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:57 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:22:07 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:19 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 13:24:37 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25:12 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:11 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:29:02 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ukswforfzkyhulha] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:30:20 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:37:04 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.197] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:37:54 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:41:32 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:02 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:42:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:42:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:45:38 is there some kind of open-source service monitoring facility available in CL ? 13:45:51 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 13:46:12 What sort of service, what sort of monitoring? 13:46:22 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:47:37 a kind of watchdog for abstract services, for which I could implement start / stop / running-p methods 13:47:51 billitch1: ingvar worked on something like that. 13:47:58 i'm thinking of hunchentoot for now but might be interested in other services too 13:48:06 no source, not sure if it ever made it out of his projects directory. 13:48:09 I seem to recall a fork of UCW that had something for controlling apache... 13:48:59 So far no one tried to make a an "application server" thing for CL, at least I don't recall any (except for NT service stuff). I personally only posted code to daemonize a process under SBCL/ACL 13:49:29 -!- nak [~wut@unaffiliated/nak] has left #lisp 13:49:31 metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50:33 p_l: by "application server" you mean something like launchd on MacOS ? 13:50:38 p_l: after daemoniziation (with fork or how?) how would you reconnect to it? slime? 13:50:51 hypno: swank 13:51:00 billitch1: no, I was thinking "Tomcat" :) 13:51:19 launchd afaik is just an init system, right? 13:51:27 yes 13:52:13 but i feel they share structure somewhere 13:52:36 launchd can .. launch processes on-demand (replacing inetd) 13:52:36 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:47 and restart processes when they die 13:53:08 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:53:53 so i'll have to roll my own service monitoring 13:54:04 well, it's still far (IMHO) from something like Container server... 13:54:15 billitch1: what kind of stuff do you want to monitor? 13:54:42 just CL "processes" or threads 13:54:47 -!- Guest92039 [~root@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:07 for now hunchentoot, and maybe a couple of maintainance threads 13:55:52 is there a reason no-one is interested in doing it in CL ? maybe watching over the lisp image from itself is a bit weak ? 13:55:57 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:56:37 billitch1: you can use standard monitoring tools that monitor all kinds of processes (some even have plugins that monitor per-protocol type) 13:57:41 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:53 p_l: yes, like monit, i'm just wondering if standard monitoring tools would exist in CL =) 13:58:09 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:00:37 billitch1: I believe at least one company uses CL for some monitoring, though of slightly different kind (think keeping IT system inventory) 14:00:58 something like jconsole would be pretty cool. threads and gc usage and similiar remote introspection and for loading patches, etc. 14:01:46 i guess most people just dont care. hunchentoot have reasonable log files anyway, and the repl serves as the ultimate "monitor". 14:02:19 david__ [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:29 p_l: You thinking of tritchey's thing, the name of which escapes me for some reason? 14:02:41 hypno: sure bu i also like getting some mail or sms when service is down 14:02:57 nyef: ? 14:03:18 ah, the company? I guess so. The guys that do that Eclipse plugin 14:03:22 paragent 14:03:26 That's the one. 14:03:55 Lisp on th server side, a C++ module deployed to the desktops. 14:04:56 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 14:05:17 -!- thatdavidmiller [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:36 something incredible would be a "cloud" for CL apps :D 14:05:53 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06:42 p_l: cloud ? http distributed services ? 14:06:57 billitch1: no, I was thinking of something like heroku.com 14:07:53 nice 14:07:58 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 i would be concerned about the security of the server and running services though 14:09:29 users don't like their info leaked 14:09:52 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:26 -!- ans` [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:36 billitch1: that's why they use multiple VPSes 14:12:02 i'm not sure i trust that either, but i'm being paranoïd maybe 14:12:19 aintme [~betateste@105.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:12:36 billitch1: when you get that paranoid, you build your own datacenter 14:12:37 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:13:02 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:13:07 I'm currently planning on starting a project on heroku 14:13:41 (file-size) does not seem to exist on this sbcl setup. do I need to 'include' or however you do it, some sort of library? 14:13:56 sure but there's a difference between trusting your providers and their other clients or remote hosts 14:14:19 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-47-119.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:14:45 p_l: what kind of project are you starting ? 14:15:07 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-142-199.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:30 a kind of Social Network "Hub", assuming my proposal wins 14:15:45 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-7-241.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:11 I registered my own company today night :) 14:16:17 clhs file-length 14:16:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_l.htm 14:16:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:31 yay, specbot's back! 14:16:36 (With the caveat that the file has to be open.) 14:17:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:15 Failing that, use sb-posix and stat the file to find the length? 14:18:33 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:56 jsoft: i use file-length 14:21:25 p_l: um, so you are using Ruby for this project of yours? 14:21:41 dysinger [~dysinger@dhcp184-48-202-238.harv.dal.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:31 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:23:51 hypno: yes 14:24:07 hypno: I suspect it will be easier to get it this way :D 14:24:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:59 Say, is there any relationship between what file-length returns and file-position for character streams? 14:27:30 -!- deadmanwalking [~justinnew@d27-96-235-14.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:03 Not explicitly defined, no. 14:28:46 That's what I thought. 14:29:00 Heh. This is pretty horrible. The behavior is only really defined for streams with a non-character element type. 14:29:38 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:30:16 nyef: lol. Here I was thinking of how to exploit RIP-addressing for relocatable cores, I start SBCL, play around with disassemble, see that it already uses what I just thought of (at least partially) xD 14:30:42 nyef: Yeah, that's what I was looking at. 14:31:01 p_l: Yup. And all assembly-routine references are stored in the literal vector, too. 14:31:16 Static symbol addresses are still hardcoded, though, I believe. 14:31:18 The next question is if any implementation returns something other than octet position for file-position and file-length. 14:31:54 -!- bakkdoor is now known as bakkdoor|afk 14:32:02 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 14:32:32 ans` [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:06 ... Lisp machines? 14:33:13 nyef: now to only separate code segments (to make it easier to fit everything close) from the rest and make all references RIP-relative (or put "begin of core" pointer at easily found place) 14:33:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:14 -!- ans` [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:25 hey, it's half a year since sbcl10, and nothing has been merged yet 14:33:33 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:33:40 what a bunch of slackers we are 14:34:18 clojure 14:34:24 oops sorry 14:35:52 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 14:36:11 merge what? 14:36:11 I have, somehow, completely screwed up when it comes to compare-and-swap-vops. And I'm drawing a blank as to how. 14:36:14 -!- adityo [~adityo@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:36:42 Lycurgus: sbcl10 saw a number of interesting things developed. Things like core relocation and such. 14:36:56 well, presented, rather than developed 14:37:04 Right, right. 14:37:04 I think _8david has had those patches for ages 14:37:15 sbcl10 couldn't be sbcl 1.0 that was more than 6 mo ago 14:37:17 He has, but didn't he disentangle them at sbcl10? 14:37:23 ah yes 14:37:27 Lycurgus: No, it was the 10th anniversary. 14:37:32 thought it could be a conf/anniv 14:37:51 I still say we should aim for releasing 1.1 in December. 14:39:54 how do I get the max from a list of integers ? 14:40:10 kiuma: APPLY and #'MAX, maybe? 14:40:19 1.1 in December is fine 14:40:23 nyef: regarding RIP relative addressing... I just had an evil idea for *fast* fasl loading 14:40:30 reduce and max 14:41:19 p_l: Does it involve using genesis to pre-load the fasls into a chunk of core image, leaving just the fixups and toplevel forms to be run? 14:41:30 nyef: I'm just unsure regarding cache behaviour 14:41:57 p_l: Then mmap()ing the resulting chunk of core instead of using the existing fasloader? 14:42:18 Bah. Just sanctify the entire space for execution. 14:42:51 nyef: kinda. Basically dumping a simple format that has page-aligned sections, with a section for fixups, section for code, section for data and a specified lambda that will contain toplevel stuff 14:43:23 Mmm. Similar idea, wildly different implementation. 14:43:31 then preferably make a way to compile whole systems into single such fasl 14:44:12 _8david has a contrib for that, too 14:44:26 sb-heapdump is frightening. 14:44:41 I'll have to look into sb-heapdump :3 14:45:03 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:06 nyef, p_l Should I use apply or reduce they both produce the same result 14:45:11 It's based on a heuristic, and you know what that means. 14:45:26 kiuma: Use reduce if you care about your stack consumption. 14:45:38 thanks 14:45:49 minion: advice about heuristic 14:45:49 #11953: Of course, this is a heuristic, which is a fancy way of saying that it doesn't work. 14:45:49 (Possibly also if you care about execution speed.) 14:46:03 nyef: you mean regarding sb-heapdump? 14:46:07 Yeah. 14:46:30 It's based on something like reachability from a package, not what's in some set of fasls. 14:46:49 howdy jsnell 14:46:50 ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 14:46:51 nyef: well, I was thinking of hooking into compiler... or maybe making a standalone fasl-to-dumpimage converter 14:47:11 If you want a standalone fasl-to-dumpimage converter, start with genesis. 14:47:23 tcr: hi. how's hacking? 14:47:26 Xach: thanks 14:47:33 And consider starting from http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/radical-refactoring/genesis 14:48:13 (src/cold/genesis/ 14:48:13 *Xach* wonders how on earth the lisp alien is not in page 1 of image results for "lisp" 14:48:14 jsnell: Hacking tcp/ip related stuff in KL. Moving to sweden in august, then to the UK. 14:48:23 Xach: Good taste? 14:48:39 nyef: that has never stopped google image search before 14:48:56 jsnell: I think we'll be in Zurich, too, at some points next year :-) 14:48:57 Maybe it's a new feature? 14:49:22 tcr: I didn't realize luke's traveling habits were infectious :-P 14:50:13 hi jsnell :) 14:51:02 jsnell: Well, we're merely following him :-) 14:51:24 buggarage [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 hullo 14:51:44 luke preaches, we follow :D 14:51:52 tcr: what will you be doing in UK? :) 14:52:21 Continue hacking on tcp/ip related stuff :-) 14:52:26 haha 14:52:36 now on win xp with emacs 23 and sbcl 14:52:39 lol 14:53:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:48 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:05 buggarage, as a native speaker of german, you may not be aware that your nick indicates you are are troll 14:54:05 minion: paste 111501? 14:54:05 Paste number 111501: "This causes corruption warning before the cold repl, what'd I do wrong?" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/111501 14:55:05 Lycurgus: Really? What does it mean in german? 14:55:19 heh 14:55:24 nyef: also, how extensive is SBCL's interpreter (compared to compiler?) 14:55:25 poor bug 14:55:31 In english, it is slang for where bugs have their automobiles repaired. 14:55:47 can I bounce a clim idea around in this channel? I'm currently thinking about an operation to compose two output records. The result should be another output record that, when drawn, results in the two output records being drawn (with overlap handling given by how the which OR was first). Does this operation exist in CLIM already? 14:55:55 carlocci [~nes@93.37.203.159] has joined #lisp 14:56:00 s/how the which/which/ (: 14:56:14 i meant the british english connotation of course 14:56:39 bug garage didn't even occur to me till after I commented 14:56:44 antifuchs: Isn't it "just" creating an output-record that... forces the two output-records being composed to redraw? 14:57:18 antifuchs: isn't that a standard-sequence-output-record, or similar? 14:57:30 Xof: ah, that sounds likely 14:57:36 thanks, all (: 14:57:45 p_l: I don't know much about the interpreter, actually, but I'd expect it to be at least complete with respect to the standard semantics. 14:57:57 I was thinking of something more complex, but sequence-OR is probably exactly what this should be 14:58:03 buggarage is my second nick man 14:58:17 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:27 i'm on win xp from within virtualbox emacs23 14:58:36 i mean buggarage 14:58:41 and sepult is the hoster 14:58:42 lol 14:58:43 hahahahaha 14:59:07 aperturefever [~abell@athedsl-201133.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:59:16 nyef: I was just wondering about the whole "can't remove compiler, CLOS requires it" issu 14:59:19 *issue 14:59:26 sepult: your other personalities are running in a virtual machine, too? that is a neat trick (: 14:59:44 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 p_l: That'd be nice. And the "can't use CLOS in the compiler, due to recursive badness" issue would be nice to fix as well. 15:00:18 neat trick is good 15:00:20 lol 15:00:50 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-34-237.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:06 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:35 now i have to do win scripting to get lispworks recognize init files too ? 15:01:40 bleh 15:02:18 edi's starter-pack won't work 15:02:43 sepult: Do you have the personal edition? 15:02:47 yep 15:02:49 that's why 15:02:51 i know 15:03:11 sepult: Clearly, you should just use SBCL instead. :-P 15:03:25 ok 15:03:38 (Now with less complaining about threading not being implemented!) 15:04:06 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:09 ok then, if i were to use clbuild in xp, where would i put it ? 15:04:19 In the recycle bin? 15:04:23 lol 15:04:48 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:04:56 nyef: he meant clbuild, not XP. 15:04:57 yeah, a mcclim launchpad. thanks Krystof! 15:05:10 luis: So did I. 15:05:39 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:06:20 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:07:17 can we reliably assume that anyone that wants to to code in CL on windows has .NET 2.0? Then I might write some clbuild-replacement (or interface to quicklisp)... 15:08:38 aren't recent windows versions shipped with .NET ? 15:08:58 I think Windows 7 would have .NET 2.0, anyway 15:09:07 and I assume it's easy to install on earlier versions 15:09:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:09:13 galdor: NT6 includes .NET >=3.0, yes 15:09:45 I'm just wary because people seem to be over-attached to XP 15:10:27 *nyef* points out that some companies -still- use applications that require IE6. 15:10:51 (Okay, at least one company does.) 15:11:35 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:02 still on win2k here 15:12:43 ^ proves my point 15:13:14 Well, I found one case where I used descriptor-reg instead of non-descriptor-reg for a temporary... 15:13:18 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.175] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:13:22 <_8david> sepult: I don't recommend clbuild on windows at all -- at the moment anyway. 15:13:27 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 -!- aintme [~betateste@105.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 15:14:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:14:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:29 ok 15:15:34 i won't use it then 15:17:01 <_8david> I'd quite like a good clbuild on windows, but it would have to written in Lisp, not shell, IMO. Until then, go for quicklisp. :-) 15:17:17 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:18:09 aah, yep there is no shell in win 15:18:11 forgot 15:18:12 lol 15:18:25 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:03 laynor [~user@109.78.122.126] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 darn 15:19:59 quicklisp kills sbcl for windows. 15:20:17 gc invariant lost while gunzipping a file. 15:21:15 Xach: have you considered separating the package metadata/storage and download client? Cause I'm quite curious in using quicklisp (maybe with some changes in future?) for base of some tools I've got an idea about 15:21:20 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:25 Hrm. Well, the assembly code on these VOPs is correct, and I've corrected the few SCs that were obviously wrong or didn't fit my current model... Maybe it'll work now. 15:21:28 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:43 p_l: That's already the case 15:21:54 can't ccl be used for windows ? 15:22:00 p_l: and is an explicit design goal. i'd love to see other things using the metadata and archives. 15:22:07 i'd be interested if it could 15:22:14 galdor: ccl can 15:22:30 udzinari [~user@195.212.29.171] has joined #lisp 15:22:34 galdor: CCL works on windows, but the 32-bit version doesn't work on 64-bit windows. 15:22:50 Xach: does/will the metadata include source repositories or just tarballs? 15:23:20 luis: pointers to source repos? or the actual source? that seems bigger than "meta" and into actual "data" at that point. 15:23:32 (And the actual reason was mentioned here recently, which is an improvement over the website which merely says that the reason is fairly embarrassing.) 15:23:44 http://src.quicklisp.org/sources.txt has a list of pointers. 15:24:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:50 Xach: I was thinking of library manager as *separate* application, that could however configure various different implementations for you 15:25:05 p_l: I'd love to see something like that. 15:25:22 I also considered adding a metadata file, similar to *.asd except concerned only about "whole package" not "how to build it" 15:25:51 so having defined such package description, you could then order the tool to pack it and upload it 15:26:34 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 15:26:45 where "pack" might be using a tag in (D)VCS as source to build package from 15:26:52 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 15:29:22 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:36 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:31:20 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:38 Xach: I also got an idea of how to deploy such system to Windows machines in a way that most developers won't mind 15:31:53 (people with out-dated windows need not apply) 15:32:25 nice 15:33:30 ... Do futexes even work on non-x86oids? 15:33:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:33:36 so i know i've asked this before but i've forgot, i have a list 15:33:41 and i need to find the min value in it 15:33:50 but (min (list 3 4 5)) does not work 15:34:02 what was the right way to do this? 15:34:15 actually 15:34:15 nm 15:34:18 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 15:34:18 -!- bakkdoor|afk is now known as bakkdoor 15:34:18 i dont need to do it like that 15:34:31 Xach: pointers to source respos, yeah. 15:34:39 PuffTheMagic: (apply #'min (list 3 4 5)) 15:34:43 p_l: well, XP users can still install .NET 2, no? 15:34:54 oh, was scrolled up, nevermind :) 15:35:16 madnificent: is there a way to ge the index of the min value instead of the actual value? 15:35:18 luis: something like http://src.quicklisp.org/sources.txt then? 15:35:21 s/ge/get/ 15:36:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-105-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:36:08 PuffTheMagic: you'd have to write your own loop for that, I think 15:37:40 Oh, hell. All of this compare-and-swap synchronization nonsense is predicated on x86oid multiprocessor memory semantics. 15:37:49 PuffTheMagic: indexes, surely? :) 15:38:02 rsynnott: ? 15:38:12 nyef: have you got it surviving pcl compilation? 15:38:51 PuffTheMagic: there could be more than one minimum value 15:39:11 rsynnott: no there cant be 15:39:13 not in this set 15:39:27 Xof: Not with compare-and-swap-vops. 15:39:37 But without it, it's failing about five contribs. 15:39:45 nice! 15:39:53 One of them on the compare-and-swap-vops. 15:40:17 The others, as near as I can tell, on some corruption possibly related to grovel. 15:40:21 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:10 PuffTheMagic: i think alexandria has something that does that 15:41:16 Xach: If I manage to figure a discovery protocol, could quicklisp site be used for it (basically, a way to announce your own repositories and package storage that would be compatible with quicklisp metadata) 15:42:38 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202759.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:42:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:51 p_l: i'm open to ideas 15:43:04 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 Xach: Another little project of mine is to package all the recoverable code from CMU AI repo 15:43:46 p_l: that would be pretty neat 15:45:49 Xach: oh sources.txt has repos, cool. How does quicklisp.lisp deal with those? It's not clear at first sight. 15:46:41 luis: it doesn't. 15:46:51 luis: quicklisp.lisp works from releases.txt and systems.txt 15:47:09 PuffTheMagic: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111503 15:47:25 sources.txt is a translation of some of my not-published metadata used to build the archives and other indexes. 15:47:36 madnificent: thanks 15:47:37 PuffTheMagic: sec, I'm a retard 15:48:11 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:49:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:49:44 <_3b`> xach: if you include 3bil, you should probably include 3b-swf as well, any remaining code in 3bil for writing .swf files is unsupported, assuming it even still works/exists 15:49:47 PuffTheMagic: refresh 15:49:58 _3b`: ok, thanks 15:50:10 thanks again 15:50:23 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:13 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:49 _3b`: how usable is your SWF stuff? 15:52:50 ... Oops. 15:53:38 nyef: found the bug? 15:53:55 Somehow, I forgot that argument and result lifetimes don't bloody overlap by default. 15:53:55 <_3b`> p_l: depends on which part, and whether you mean 'possible to use' or 'easy to use' 15:55:05 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:24 _3b`: I was thinking more among "possible" than "easy" 15:55:27 The thread stuff is still horribly broken due to the complete lack of any memory barriers in code that uses the compare-and-swap functions, but that's for later. 15:55:30 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:56:22 -!- benny` [~user@i577A1153.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-34-237.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:34 <_3b`> p_l: pretty close to usable then, doesn't have nice workflow/APIs yet though 15:57:46 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:46 threading stuff on non-x86 is a pain in the ass. :) 15:58:21 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 Meh. About half of this pain was simply because the runtime was still pervasively single-threaded. 15:58:42 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 15:59:34 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:00:43 <_3b`> p_l: and the compiler and CL lib are still pretty weak, but that is mostly 1 or 2 features (full lambda lists and symbols/packages) blocking a bunch of easy stuff 16:00:47 if I want to extract '(67 80 100) from '(((63 (66)(67))(64)(65))(80)(100)) is the following call correct ? ... 16:01:01 (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (reduce #'max x)) (mapcar #'alexandria:flatten '(((63 (66)(67))(64)(65))(80)(100)))) 16:01:38 benny [~user@i577A315B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:45 cl-utilities contains n-extreme-values or similiar 16:03:03 you-d use it like (n-extreme-values 3 list :key #'car) 16:04:09 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.203.159] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 16:09:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 16:11:32 david_ [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:47 mgst00 [~mgst08@c-24-218-201-217.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:22 -!- david__ [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:29 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:36 -!- buggarage [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:13:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:21 tcr, n-most-extreme seems more verbose for my case 16:14:30 david__ [~david@87-194-167-91.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:14:51 I have to flatten anyway 16:18:07 -!- david_ [~david@host81-149-96-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:26 Okay, VOP lifetimes fixed that bug. 16:19:34 It's compiling PCL again now. 16:20:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:17 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 16:21:46 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:47 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:21 c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-039.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:23:49 Can anyone tell me why they would ever use mapc/mapl etc over loop and dolist? 16:24:16 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-gqnypbownbtrqkej] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:24:20 rephrased, I've been getting along just fine with loop, dolist, and apply. does mapc etc do something that these can't do? 16:24:47 Less typing in some cases 16:24:55 The mapping functions are a different (higher-level in some sense) way to look at certain problems. 16:25:16 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has joined #lisp 16:25:23 nyef: really? that's interesting, I always looked at them as lower level (probably because I don't quite grok them) 16:25:29 In a non-native-code implementation MAPC may be faster than DOLIST 16:25:39 As expected, the queue tests still suck. 16:25:50 sorry about that :-) 16:25:53 I blame the complete lack of explicit memory barriers. 16:26:03 the numbers should be reduced by a factor of 10 16:26:16 tcr: I'm guessing though that the loop/collecting idiom is probably as fast as mapc though, right? 16:26:19 it seems to be testing sleep granularity 16:26:20 It's not even that: The queue -just doesn't work-. 16:28:17 oh wait you mean queues? 16:28:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:28:47 so it's not my crazy mailbox tests you're talking bout? 16:28:49 Yeah, the sb-concurrency queue code doesn't contain any memory barriers. 16:29:07 well, what arch are you talking of anyway? 16:29:11 PPC. 16:29:30 they're assumed implicitly at various places like entering crit sec, and exiting crit sec 16:29:46 -!- Kniht [~kniht@c-68-58-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:46 Umm... There aren't any critical sections. 16:29:59 also CAS 16:30:09 Right, and that's a bad assumption. 16:30:25 yeah, it's really tied to x86. 16:30:27 Because there are three scenarios that I can think of for CAS and barriers. 16:30:28 I'm with you. :-) 16:30:34 And one of them is no barriers necessary. 16:30:58 One of them is "make sure we don't issue any memory ops until after the CAS succeeds". 16:31:21 And one of them is "sync all of our memory ops before we do the CAS". 16:31:42 pioniere [~banglyte@88-222-127-134.meganet.lt] has joined #lisp 16:31:55 At least it means the tests don't suck :-) 16:32:04 No, just the -code-. 16:32:23 And they do suck, because they lock up instead of failing. 16:32:58 oh they shouldn't if with-timeout works 16:33:04 -!- pioniere [~banglyte@88-222-127-134.meganet.lt] has quit [] 16:33:08 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:33:48 Umm. No with-timeouts involved. 16:34:06 hello 16:34:09 And things can be screwed up at an even lower level: The sb-thread guts don't have barriers either. 16:34:13 Hello ost`. 16:34:13 -!- ost` is now known as ost 16:34:13 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:45 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75744c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:26 oof, yes-or-no-p in allegro for windows is pretty ugly. 16:37:39 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:37:45 -!- udzinari [~user@195.212.29.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:54 what does 'yes-or-no-p' do? 16:38:04 clhs yes-or-no-p 16:38:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_y_or_n.htm 16:38:25 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:38:36 Oh, never knew that existed. 16:38:48 rsynnott: in allegro for windows, pops up a modal dialog box with the prompt clipped off, and directions to type "yes" or "no" into a text entry. 16:39:01 ugh 16:39:06 Xach: Heh! That sounds useful. 16:39:11 even for an application which is not otherwise GUI-y? 16:39:18 rsynnott: yes. 16:39:43 I suppose if you take the spec very literally, having 'yes' and 'no' buttons would not be sufficient 16:40:08 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:33 "and reads an answer in some implementation-dependent manner (intended to be multiple characters, such as YES or NO)." - though actually from that, you should be able to get away with a proper Yes/No box 16:40:42 Right. 16:40:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:40:50 Any section which describes intent is not normative. 16:41:05 It gets worse on MacOS, of course, where 'Yes/No' prompts are verboten 16:41:30 Of course. Can we have OK/Cancel prompts instead? 16:42:02 no; all buttons must be verbs, according to the Book of Jobs :) 16:42:02 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:42:08 http://xach.com/tmp/aclyn.png fyi 16:42:24 oh, wow, that's ridiculous 16:42:35 *nyef* winces. 16:42:41 *_3b`* wonders if it actually uses *query-io* there like the spec requires 16:42:55 How on -earth- did that get past testing? 16:42:58 _3b`: perhaps it temporarily redirects it :) 16:43:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:33 what'd you find nyef? 16:44:03 No, no... Just the yes-or-no-p thing. 16:44:14 oh, I thought you found more thread badness 16:44:22 Not yet. 16:44:39 There's at least one more to track down, though. 16:45:04 Xach: hahaha 16:45:24 Xach: that's really pretty ridiculous (: 16:46:15 it does follow the letter and spirit of the spec, though (: 16:46:25 "It is intended that the reply require the user to take more action than just a single keystroke, such as typing the full word yes or no followed by a newline." 16:46:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:03 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.76.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:14 <_3b`> the bit about using *query-io* is probably what requires the typing 16:48:23 I don't get the impression of a slavish devotion to spec details from Allegro CL. 16:48:27 <_3b`> otherwise you could argue for yes-or-no-p being a yes/no dialog plus an are you sure dialog (assuming you could argue in favor of dialogs in the first place) 16:49:24 heh 16:49:42 anyway, allegro cl for windows works fine with quicklisp, but it does run into the heap limit pretty quickly. 16:49:52 longkid [~longkid@113.22.130.112] has joined #lisp 16:50:09 I wonder does it fail if you just type 'yes' and do NOT provide a newline :) 16:50:24 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:32 <_3b`> presumably in that case it just waits 16:50:36 hmm, does it randomly throw up dialogs in any other situation, I wonder? 16:50:45 hello all 16:51:06 rsynnott: Clicking the button probably counts as providing a newline. 16:51:20 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 16:51:26 it is helpfully labeled "Enter" (: 16:52:24 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-215.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:44 I use clbuild to install lispbuilder-sdl. After finishing installation, I start emacs and slime. 16:52:57 more fun dialog boxes: http://xach.com/tmp/corman.png 16:53:00 how can I use functions of lispbuilder-sdl? 16:53:10 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-41-13.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:54:08 <_3b`> Xach: who is that in the quicklisp icon? 16:54:58 _3b`: franz liszt maybe? 16:55:05 _3b`: i think that's from allegro's filetype association 16:55:15 <_3b`> ah 16:55:22 maybe it's kent pitman 16:55:27 oh, franz liszt. As in list, I suppose. Never noticed that before :) 16:55:34 I'm pretty sure it is liszt 16:55:35 =) 16:55:54 How low, exactly, is the bar for hiring at Google.ie? 16:55:59 <_3b`> yeah, apparently 16:56:09 haha 16:56:10 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 16:56:12 Lisp does Totentanz 16:56:29 Xach: google.ie? 16:56:34 why .ie specifically? 16:57:24 Isn't that where you work? 16:57:30 buggarage [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:48 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 16:57:50 no, no, I work for a games company 16:57:59 Ah, sweet relief. 16:58:08 heh 17:01:57 -!- buggarage [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:02:19 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:03:31 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:05:09 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:07:12 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:00 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:42 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 17:11:34 heh 17:11:54 my ghost 17:12:08 omg 17:12:51 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:58 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:01 -!- george_ is now known as summersault 17:14:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:11 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:57 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 17:16:28 does anyone here know whether hans hübner is ever in this chat? 17:16:31 -!- c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-039.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:16:39 hans hübner no longer visits this chat 17:16:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 hm.. i'd need some help with soldering a teensy to an old-style symbolics keyboard 17:17:38 he is still alive and answers email with courtesy and speed 17:18:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:18:51 p0a [~user@athedsl-4373184.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:18:53 Hello 17:19:31 mapcar is said to terminate when "the shortest list runs out". Is there a standard function that does what mapcar does, but terminates when the longest list runs out? 17:20:11 That would be a #1=(bad . #1#) idea in general. 17:20:11 p0a: there isn't. what values should it supply for lists that have been exhausted, out of curiosity? 17:20:49 No value. It has to be used with functions that have a single &rest varibale 17:21:17 *_3b* would have guessed nil 17:21:21 Umm... If there's no value, you can't continue. 17:21:24 E.g. (mymap #'+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2)) => (2 4 3) 17:21:46 That is an interesting notion. 17:21:53 That looks like a "no value" of 0... Or skipping the parameter. 17:21:58 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:00 the second 17:22:01 p0a: no, there is nothing like that built-in. 17:22:06 <_3b> having the arguments move if the first lists run out would be confusing if arument order mattered 17:22:32 Interesting, but sufficiently odd that I'd be surprised if it's even a utility function somewhere. 17:22:41 the argument order surely can follow the list order 17:23:47 <_3b> consider (mymap #'- '(1 2 3) '(1 2)) vs (mymap #'- '(1 2) '(1 2 3)) 17:24:32 <_3b> in the first case i would expect 3 for the last element, -3 in second case 17:24:47 indeed 17:24:50 but that's not a problem 17:25:06 I'd say a feature. Has anyone an idea of how this should be implemented? 17:26:07 the nil idea is easy 17:26:19 p0a, there are more complicated cases such as: (mapcar '- '(1) '(2 3) '(4 5 6)) etc. 17:27:12 complicated but surely the behavior is as expected: (-5 -2 6) 17:27:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:45 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 17:27:53 <_3b> -6 you mean? 17:28:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:40 surely 6 17:28:45 EH! yes 17:28:48 hehe:] 17:28:52 <_3b> i suppose expected behavior depends on how you name it though 17:28:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111507 17:29:01 ^ here is the nil idea. 17:30:17 c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-176.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:30:26 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:30:27 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.130.112] has left #lisp 17:31:43 (mymap #'(lambda (&rest numbers) (apply #'- (remove nil numbers))) ('(1) '(2 3) '(4 5 6)) ==> (-5 -2 -6) 17:31:59 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:31 but there must be a neat way to implement this without having to append elements to each list so that they are of the same size. (plus that the function passed to mymap must be aware of the appending element used in order to ignore it) 17:32:33 i think that's simply a bad idea 17:32:47 pmd, it regardless helps me to neatly solve a problem 17:32:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:56 you generally use mapcar with a known number of arguments 17:33:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:29 p0a: ok, let me suggest this: (mymap #'(lambda ...yadayada...) 0 ...lists...) 17:33:42 where the second argument is the default when the list runs out of arguments 17:33:45 I would say (mapcar '- '(1) '(2 3) '(4 5 6)) is a bad idea because it assumes associativity. 17:34:10 what do you mean mgst00? 17:34:18 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:25 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 17:34:41 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:44 pmd, I'd like if possible to avoid the 0 argument. The lambda function must not be provided with junk arguments if possible 17:34:49 p0a: it is not always true that for a given operation *, (a*b)*c = a*(b*c) 17:35:01 it's true for integers 17:35:28 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:35:45 stassats: no, it's not true for integers with octonion multiplication 17:35:47 mgst00, mymap solves a problem of mine neatly. I'm asking for ideas for its implementation because I'm not sure how should I do it 17:36:24 p0a: you're seeing things too narrowly. your mymap should be an flet or it should have a much more specific name 17:36:51 p0a: if i was making something as general as mapcar for the longest list, that's what i would to, add the second argument 17:36:53 just saying that assuming associativity is not a good thing, generally 17:37:31 the mymap name is temporary 17:39:38 p0a: i think it's pretty obvious how to implement such thing: a `do*' that `apply's with all the arguments of the yet non-emtpy lists until the end of the largest one is reached 17:40:25 -!- mgst00 [~mgst08@c-24-218-201-217.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401064631]] 17:40:41 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 17:40:52 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1A65E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:40:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:40 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:41:48 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:58 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has joined #lisp 17:42:04 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:03 p0a: are you new to lisp? 17:44:03 I'm familiar with the language but I haven't written anything major 17:44:20 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:44:37 p0a: oh ok. sorry about the "obvious" thing, i thought you had already implemented "mymap"... 17:45:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:45:23 no I'm trying to think of a way to do it 17:46:42 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:46:47 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:56 segv [~mb@p4FC1B1D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:48 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: lnostdal_] 17:50:11 ok, try to do mapcar first. it should be trivial to do mymap based on it 17:51:01 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666ea7-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:18 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666a60-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:51:18 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:30 lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:03 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:52:31 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest95993 17:55:26 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:38 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 I like mymap 18:02:55 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:28 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:05:46 ost, I came up with it while trying to do matrix transformation (rotation by 90 degrees). (apply #'mymap #'list lists) solves it. 18:06:49 p0a: I wanted something like that but can't now remember why 18:07:16 mapcar solves it too, but for lists of the same length only. e.g.: (mapcar #'list '(1 2 3) '(a b c) '(+ - *)) ==> ((1 a +) (2 b -) (3 c *)) 18:07:31 Hmm :-) seems like a good idea at last. 18:09:17 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-194-173.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 bye 18:12:37 -!- p0a [~user@athedsl-4373184.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:15:00 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:15:36 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:15 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:07 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:58 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:21:32 brown [~user@nat/google/x-vzneymqxllmnbajr] has joined #lisp 18:21:51 -!- brown is now known as reb 18:22:18 Hey folks, I just uploaded to github some code that I use to check out and keep up to date with public Lisp repositories: http://github.com/brown/slurp 18:22:36 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:22 reb: cool 18:24:02 There's undoubtedly overlap with other similar tools, but I haven't tried clbuild and friends. 18:24:03 everyone has one of these nowadays 18:24:43 it's the new gtk binding. or was it irc bot? 18:25:29 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 Maybe what we need is a global database containing the canonical location of every Lisp project. 18:26:06 That would be cool. 18:26:20 marc battyani tried to do something like that 18:26:28 Okay, what I've got now is run-program -> sigchld arrives -> sigchld deferred -> program continues running -> next gc -> *boom*. 18:26:37 sigchld never delivered. 18:26:44 http://www.cl-user.net 18:27:02 what repository type is that reb ? 18:27:11 git pull won't go 18:27:35 git clone? 18:27:47 ok 18:27:50 I just uploaded everything ... let me try pulling from a different host. 18:28:18 If git clone doesn't work, git clone the other URL (the git:// one). 18:28:22 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:46 The URL for cloning is: http://github.com/brown/slurp.git 18:29:01 reb: that's a funny coincidence, i just made my own run on top of run-program like that too. 18:29:31 it's in the air, i think 18:29:47 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082F61C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:15 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 18:30:32 Anyway, it's a work in progress ... please send me suggestions. 18:31:15 <_3b> reb: my github repo is the current official cl-opengl, the darcs tree on c-l.net hasn't been updated in a while 18:31:42 reb: quicklisp does a lot of the same stuff, but it freezes the checkouts into versioned tarballs available via http, and indexes them and all their systems. 18:31:56 -!- c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-176.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:32:07 reb: that way you don't vcs programs, just a http client (and quicklisp has a very portable one built-in) 18:32:18 "you don't need vcs programs" 18:32:32 _3b: Thanks. I think there's a comment in slurp.lisp about fixing that. 18:33:10 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BE4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:33:19 <_3b> reb: that's why i noticed :) 18:33:30 _3b: ! 18:34:10 <_3b> (noticed which you use that is) 18:34:27 Xach: I like maintaining repository copies locally. If the vcs is distributed and the project disappears, I've got commit history. 18:35:43 pnq [asdf@172.164.166.192] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 18:36:01 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:45 -!- ziggy_ [~ziggy@de2-as16463.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:00 astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-1.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:37:00 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 18:37:13 ziggy_ [~ziggy@de2-as16463.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 18:38:55 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-194-173.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:39:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:40:34 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:37 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:02 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 18:41:39 -!- Guest95993 is now known as pkhuong 18:43:27 -!- kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:56 c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-041.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:47:44 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:49:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:49:49 -!- pnq [asdf@172.164.166.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:56 sbcl won't load slurp 18:49:59 heh 18:55:27 csimon [~iamcms2@207.195.245.192] has joined #lisp 18:55:36 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:55 -!- csimon is now known as Guest24616 19:00:29 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-166.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:04:15 -!- c|mell [~cmell@genkt-050-041.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:24 francogrex [~user@121.176-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:05:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:17 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:11:48 Guest51929 [~root@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:58 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@158.223.51.65] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- ZabaQ [~johnc@playboxgames.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:20:16 sb-concurrency failed 19:20:19 gah 19:21:23 Heh. I'm having a similar problem: sb-concurrency fails its tests. 19:21:35 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 That said, I know -why- it fails for me, and approximately what to do about it. 19:24:15 -!- francogrex [~user@121.176-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:24:25 knobo` [~user@ti100710a080-0134.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:24:29 patching test-utils.lisp worked for me: set +timeout+ to 240.0 or so 19:25:39 That might work for supult, too. 19:27:40 at least allows installation 19:28:02 -!- aperturefever [~abell@athedsl-201133.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: quitt] 19:28:12 ... And I know what I forgot that's causing sigchld to be deferred indefinitely. 19:28:20 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.138.146] has joined #lisp 19:28:26 Bloody two-separate-pseudo-atomics. :-/ 19:28:34 -!- knobo [~user@ti100710a080-0134.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:06 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:33:07 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:54 Blueflame [~chatzilla@cpe-67-11-69-250.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:59 -!- Blueflame [~chatzilla@cpe-67-11-69-250.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:46 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:31 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:54 -!- Holcxjo is now known as hdurer^ 19:42:48 nyef: What is "two-separate-pseudo-atomics"? 19:45:36 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-11-3.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:24 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-85-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-197-147.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:48:13 rtoym: On PPC/gencgc, pseudo-atomic is managed via reg_ALLOC. 19:48:24 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-197-147.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:34 But that's a context register, and the C code doesn't have such fine control. 19:48:52 Yet the C code also has to be able to enter pseduo-atomic for allocation. 19:48:54 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:36 So the C code uses one pseduo-atomic, and the lisp code uses another, and the runtime has two different sets of functions to access it... 19:51:14 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:52:01 So the one set has to call the other, and {,undo_}fake_foreign_function_call() has to keep them in sync as needed. 19:52:16 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 19:52:34 (Since call-in and call-out never happen under p-a rules, the fake routines are the only ones that have to do this.) 19:53:01 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@158.223.51.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:31 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:52 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:54 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:16 -!- ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:01 I might actually be done, modulo the whole multiprocessor-synchronization-barrier thing and the make-sure-it-still-builds-elsewhere thing. 20:01:38 And, really, the race conditions involved in passing boxed arguments at call-in. 20:02:15 nyef: did you nail the GC bug? 20:02:24 The most recent one, yeah. 20:03:27 Don't quite know what was happening with the failure mode, but I did find the cause. 20:04:17 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Quit: waaaa] 20:04:47 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:11 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:05:18 nyef: cool 20:05:30 nyef: is it explainable? 20:07:01 It basically amounts to having stale data in what should be an interrupt flag. 20:07:33 I'm able to interpret that sentence (yay) 20:07:39 (Alternately, it was a cache not being flushed properly.) 20:07:52 thereby answering my next question 20:08:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:28 wait, that means a certain location is first a cache and then an interrup flag? 20:08:34 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:41 It's a cached copy of an interrupt flag? 20:08:57 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:10:00 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:10:11 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:10:32 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:36 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:11:40 Wha...? threads.pure.lisp creates threads and tests some parallel behavior?!? 20:12:11 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:18 nyef: ah, that can make sense 20:12:34 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:13:00 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has left #lisp 20:14:09 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:28 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:16:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:19 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@dhcp184-48-202-238.harv.dal.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 20:16:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:03 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:23 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:31 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:03 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:20 maden [~maden@dsl-158-194.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:24:05 aperturefever [~abell@athedsl-201133.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:24:44 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-41-13.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:24:49 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 20:25:13 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:25:36 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-28-80.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:25:59 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:27:12 does anyone have an example of a lexer written with cl-lex ? 20:27:20 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:34 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:56 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:29:48 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:08 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:31:07 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:31:07 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:12 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:33:33 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-156.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:33:59 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-28-80.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:34:26 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-28-80.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:34:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:54 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37:06 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:28 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:38:33 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:39:05 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:26 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75744c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:32 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:41:34 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:43:27 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:40 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:47 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:44:49 maybe someone wants to have a look in http://debian.pastebin.com/NszkXU2c 20:44:56 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 20:46:50 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:08 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:47:37 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:01 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-195-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:23 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:51:05 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:51:05 sepult: I see no error here. 20:51:10 Greetings lispers. 20:51:33 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:51:38 Hello tmh. 20:51:59 nyef: I just had a thought. If building SBCL requires an existing implementation of Common Lisp, why are all of the configuration scripts written in SH and not in Common Lisp? 20:52:09 Oh, and Hello nyef. 20:52:28 They're written in sh because it's easier to get the required data from sh. 20:52:54 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:53:32 Ah, yes 20:54:10 also -- how do you even START your common lisp implementation, if not using sh ? 20:54:56 This further convinces me that "autoconfig" is more trouble than it's worth. I argue that you're better off with "support platforms" that have all of the configure data hard coded and if people want another system, they have to specify the configure data. 20:55:13 Fare: Some of us have been relegated to the Winders world. 20:55:49 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:59 tmh: colinux ? vmware ? virtualbox ? 20:56:14 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:18 do you use SBCL on Windows? 20:56:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 20:57:19 Fare: I may be using virtualbox on my workstation, but my laptop doesn't have the resources. At the moment, I play with SBCL on Windows, but I have aspirations of using it on Windows. I do my heavy lifting with SBcL on RHEL. 20:57:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:42 But, I'm converting everything to windows. My laptop is already converted. 20:57:56 my condolences. 20:58:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 20:58:18 20:58:33 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:58:47 (or should it now be steveb?) 20:59:25 Yeah, well, I'm actually a FreeBSD fanboy, but the reality of wanting to work with the rest of the computing world with as little translation as possible is forcing my hand. 21:01:00 Alright, continue with your previously scheduled program, I'll go back to my corner. 21:04:29 what is the current state of sbcl on windows? 21:04:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:30 "Believed to be mostly working"? 21:05:55 aw [~aw@p5DDA91E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 tmh: what is your status with SBCL on Windows? 21:07:29 btw, how do I make SLIME not spawn threads on SBCL ? 21:07:50 Fare: Set swank:*communication-style* to something like :fd-handler. 21:08:08 oh, on the Lisp side? 21:08:14 Yeah. 21:08:17 uh, how do I do that from the elisp side? 21:08:34 or do I need to edit the swank Lisp sources? 21:08:43 or add something to my .sbclrc ? 21:09:02 There's a file that gets loaded everytime swank starts (or maybe is loaded). 21:09:11 ~/.swank or ~/.swankrc or something. 21:09:24 Okay, I'm drawing a massive blank here, and may have to resort to hacking up sync instructions before and isync instructions after all compare-and-swap operations... 21:09:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:09:56 ... and that'd be unnecessarily slow, but it'd paper over the complete lack of any kind of coherent multithreaded memory model in SBCL. 21:12:20 "~A/.swank.lisp" 21:12:21 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 21:14:38 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:24 Fare: My status is that I use the 32bit binary version. I'm digging into the build to see if I can get a 64bit version going and also trying to do it with the Windows 7 SDK (free) instead of mingw. 21:17:14 Window 7 SDK is free as in beer. 21:17:32 even IFS is now free as in beer 21:18:00 IFS? 21:18:02 tmh: have you tried CCL ? 21:18:52 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 21:18:53 Installable File System 21:19:11 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:19:17 for quite a long time till sometime after XPSP2 it was $1000 per licence 21:20:24 Fare: Yes, I like CCL. I use SBCL on RHEL and have spent some time on optimizing my code, so I'd like to continue with SBCL because of the performance. I own a license for LispWorks and use it as well. I still think SBCL has better numeric performance than LispWorks. 21:21:11 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 21:21:11 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:34 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:21:52 francogrex [~user@121.176-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:21:59 I think SBCL has the best numeric performance, period. 21:22:54 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 21:23:05 so single-threaded SBCL controlled by multithreaded LispWorks? 21:23:18 btw, if you have feedback regarding ASDF2 on Windows, I'm a taker. 21:24:43 does anyone have any experience of using cl-plplot on windows? I compiled plplot using VC++, but cffi is giving error when I load plplot.dll. Any hint on how to diagnose the problem? 21:24:58 Fare: I've got ASDF automagickally loading in my .lispworks, but I punted on the new ASDF2 features. Mainly, the system discovery features. If you really need feedback on those, I could take a second look. 21:25:16 http://nklein.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/asdf2.pdf 21:26:14 mentions: Fare <<< Excellent programmer. 21:26:17 I'd like someone to double check that at least I haven't horribly broken either system discovery or output translations. 21:26:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179163116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:26:53 excellent programmer working on twobit programs. 21:27:00 == waste 21:27:08 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:28:04 Fare: We appreciate the effort none-the-less. I'm not familar with the output translations, but I'll give the new system discovery a second look. 21:28:22 no it's not == waste; it's == teaching/educating 21:28:49 *nyef* is trying the brute-force, obvious, unsophisticated approach to sorting out memory coherence problems: All spinlocks now do a SYNC beforehand and an ISYNC afterwards, which probably isn't enough but at least might get things going. 21:30:26 what are these PPC thingies? Any relationship to EIEIO ? 21:30:46 Yeah, EIEIO is another one. 21:30:53 They're memory barriers. 21:31:36 My embarassing system hack for .lispworks -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/111512 21:32:57 part of the point of ASDF2 is to remove the need for such hacks (that are beyond what a newbie should have to climb to get a usable system) 21:33:15 (thanks to fe[nl]ix for that) 21:35:19 I realize that, but I dug through the ASDF code, wanted slightly different behavior, and wasn't sure how to do that within the context of the new system. I can't remember the exact details, but it was easier at the time just to write that hack. I will give the ASDF2 system discovery a second look. 21:36:07 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 21:36:24 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:36:31 what behaviour did you want? 21:37:04 is it wise to rely on asdf2 being installed already? it's rather new, no? 21:37:38 just an accolade: did anyone try to write to Oracle (or Gensym) about the possibility of releasing Chestnut into public domain? 21:37:44 maybe you want me to allow a similar DSL for the source-registry as for the output translations? 21:38:08 madnificent, at this point you should only rely on it if you ensured it was there. 21:38:15 I think there was an intent to do so 21:38:36 madnificent, although CCL ECL and CMUCL have it in trunk, ABCL has a recent one, and SBCL will hopefully soon have it. 21:38:49 Fare: Don't recall exactly. I'll update my copy of the ASDF source code and get back to you. 21:38:58 francogrex, if all implementations have it by the end of the year, I'll be happy. 21:39:06 Fare: it was partially with respect to what you said to tmh 21:39:47 Ok, I have to head out, thanks for all the chat. :-) 21:39:58 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:40:06 Fare: though I didn't think it would go that fast. How old do you think the average lisp environment is when installed through a linux package manager? 21:40:38 madnificent, "all lisp environments are above average" 21:41:06 -!- aperturefever [~abell@athedsl-201133.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: ^_^] 21:41:34 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:45:31 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-1.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:46:45 -!- francogrex [~user@121.176-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #lisp 21:47:10 madnificent: who installs his lisp through the package manager? 21:47:26 ehu: users whom aren't yet familiar with lisp 21:47:36 *ehu* only uses such a lisp to bootstrap 21:48:10 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:48:42 ehu: on gentoo, I install it through the package manager too, I think my ubuntu tablet may have it installed through ubuntu's package manager too 21:49:04 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:30 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 ... Damn, even that hammer failed to fix things up. :-/ 21:52:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:58:09 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 21:58:33 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:59:15 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:48 Okay, the queue stuff, by inspection, obviously needs a more principled approach. 22:03:52 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:04:15 nyef: spaghetti code? 22:05:17 No, it's just relying on the implicit memory ordering guaranteed by x86oids. 22:05:39 and what's bad about that? 22:05:57 I'm trying to run it on a PPC. 22:06:05 ah 22:06:49 Right now I'm desk-checking the SBCL threading guts to see if at least it will work correctly with the hammer I've used. 22:07:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 what does the Flying Spaghetti Monster think of spaghetti code? 22:07:12 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:12 mine failed here too 22:07:30 after failing with some macros or funcs in sb-prof 22:07:46 sb-concurrency failed totally and was not build 22:07:47 sepult: Failing, or emitting optimization notes? 22:07:48 built 22:07:53 no failing 22:08:02 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 i didn't add that into the paste 22:08:47 that's a nice presentation by rpg 22:08:49 ... LOOP establishes a BLOCK NIL, doesn't it? 22:08:57 it was WARNING! Some of the contrib modules did not build successfully or pass 22:08:57 their self-tests. Failed contribs:" 22:08:57 sb-concurrency 22:08:57 22:09:17 Fare: it says "thou shalt not construct an inferior likeness" 22:09:19 sepult: Right, but your paste had -nothing- from sb-concurrency, just some optimization notes from somewhere else. 22:09:38 yes, just after that this message 22:10:18 maybe it's not that important, maybe it's a follow-errorr 22:10:27 what about MY asdf2 presentation? 22:10:35 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-48.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:10:46 if it has problems with fixnum and integer things 22:11:07 Okay, the SBCL guts look tolerable. 22:11:14 http://fare.tunes.org/computing/asdf2.ss 22:11:21 the argument was a big integer not ? 22:11:22 Fare: oh, didn't see that (: 22:11:27 or bignum ? 22:12:02 so it would not fit into memory and would get reversed in byte's 22:12:16 *p_l* thinks that the usage of timeouts in concurrency tests is not really a good idea 22:12:17 going float 22:12:32 mah 22:13:01 Fare: is there documentation on the DSLs? (: 22:13:28 yes, in the ASDF manual. 22:13:31 The manual confused me; i think the pseudo-grammar should be more explicit about the required words. 22:13:32 Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has joined #lisp 22:13:41 And some examples would help. 22:14:00 Xach: you mean :inherit-configuration and its negation? 22:14:05 yes. 22:14:08 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-28-80.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:14:11 patch welcome :-/ 22:14:18 Fuck you. 22:14:28 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202759.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:59 ;; Your configuration expression MUST contain exactly one of either of these: 22:15:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:55 Fare: that text comes after the thing I was looking for, so i terminated my search after seeing the CONFIGURATION line and the line about directories I needed. 22:16:27 hm. what is an XDG? 22:16:47 ah, freedesktop.org. ic. 22:17:06 Fare: something like configuration being an inheritence directive and other directives would help, rather than it just being directives. 22:18:08 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-166.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:18:39 what about this paragraph? 22:19:03 sellout [~greg@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 Note that there is currently no default about inheriting configuration or not, and that you MUST specify either @code{:inherit-configuration} or @code{:ignore-inherited-configuration} when providing configuration through a SEXP, a STRING or a file. 22:19:49 Where would that be? 22:19:59 after each DSL description 22:20:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:41 Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:20:51 I don't think that would have prevented the error I made when reading the grammar and trying to synthesize a specific configuration. 22:21:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:22:09 hum. 22:22:48 so add a non-terminal INHERITANCE_DIRECTIVE ? 22:23:53 meh, indirection only makes things harder to track. 22:24:32 what about putting a bold ;; INHERITANCE DIRECTIVE: as a comment 22:24:53 maybe putting it at the TOP of the DIRECTIVE list ? 22:26:12 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:26:42 at the top would help. 22:27:04 ok. 22:27:15 Need I the end paragraph, or can I drop it? 22:29:13 which end paragraph? 22:29:25 the one I pasted above. 22:29:35 Note that there is currently no default about inheriting configuration or not, and that you MUST specify either @code{:inherit-configuration} or @code{:ignore-inherited-configuration} when providing configuration through a SEXP, a STRING or a file. 22:30:00 Fare: I think that would not be necessary if the inheritance bit was at the top of the grammar. 22:31:20 ok 22:31:58 thanks 22:32:06 as for an example... what do you use? 22:34:05 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:09 Fare: I wanted to know how to add a directory tree, and I thought it was obvious from the grammar, but I kept making the mistake of leaving out the inheritance directive 22:34:58 Fare: So having something cookbook-ish that says "Here is how to add a single directory at runtime" or "here is how to add a directory tree at runtime" or "Put this in your config file to add everything in /opt/lisp/software/" 22:35:21 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 22:36:04 Fare: my original question was "How do I add a tree at runtime?" and I browsed the manual with that goal in mind. 22:36:32 OK 22:36:45 macdice [~user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:36:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:37:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:38:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:14 eno__ [~eno@adsl-70-137-167-249.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 how is the manual now? http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems 22:45:39 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:46:41 thanks a lot for your feedback, and apologies for not getting it right the first time around 22:46:43 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:04 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:24 No problem. Hope it helps. 22:49:20 Fare: Is that example right? 22:49:41 Fare: the grammar suggests :inherit-configuration isn't a list 22:50:49 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:50:56 oh right. 22:51:33 I think I support that for backwards-compatibility with an earlier release, but really, only the list-less thing is supported. 22:51:36 thanks for catching it. 22:58:55 -!- macdice [~user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: :sleep] 22:58:55 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666a60-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:49 Is there anyone having experience with cffi on windows/sbcl? I'm trying to get cl-plplot working, but it gives an error when loading the dll. 23:01:34 I'm not a cffi person, but what error are you getting? 23:02:14 *Fare* pushes an updated manual 23:03:16 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:42 nyef: this is the debugger output. http://pastie.org/1007717 23:03:42 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 23:04:24 The first and most obvious question is, is that path correct? 23:05:10 yes :) 23:05:21 Is the dll file for the appropriate architecture? 23:05:51 compiled right now, should be 32bit windows. 23:06:26 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:06:37 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666a60-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 23:09:31 Lycurgus: are you using common lisp-plplot? 23:10:40 no, should I? 23:11:06 Lycurgus: sorry. it is for laynor 23:11:18 np 23:11:47 leo2007: i was trying to use cl-plplot. Is lisp-plplot better? 23:12:16 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:26 eslick [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 eslick_ [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:10 laynor: i mean cl-plplot 23:16:12 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:17 mh, ok :) then yes, that's what I was trying to use. I modified loadlib.lisp to point to plplotd.dll, but I get an error loading it. Could it be cffi can't find the plplotd.dll's dependencies (I mean, other dlls)? 23:17:22 -!- eslick_ [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:41 laynor: that's exactly what I did to get it to work on osx and linux. 23:17:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.157.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:31 leo2007: just pointing to plplot shared library was enough? 23:19:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:12 laynor: I have added this (pushnew #P"/usr/local/unix/plplot/lib/" *foreign-library-directories* :test #'equal) for osx 23:19:27 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:39 my plplot of installed with --prefix /usr/local/unix/plplot 23:20:02 laynor: it's not cffi that looks for such dependencies, but the windows loader 23:23:07 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 Good morning! 23:23:14 adeht: searching for a tool that will extract the dependencies from the dll file, do you know of a good one? 23:23:42 -!- Guest24616 [~iamcms2@207.195.245.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:48 cmsimon [~iamcms2@207.195.245.192] has joined #lisp 23:24:10 laynor: depends.exe .. http://www.dependencywalker.com/ 23:24:16 -!- cmsimon is now known as Guest15549 23:24:28 adeht: I was looking at that one :-) 23:24:29 laynor: also check out http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682586(VS.85).aspx 23:29:06 adeht: thanks for pointing me :) Found one missing dependency btw. 23:29:59 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 23:30:57 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-166.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:32:03 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 uhm, this stuff is beyond my knowledge. unresolved import due to a missing export function in some module, and modules with different cpu types :O 23:37:41 did you compile the other dlls for 32-bit? 23:39:24 adeht: the 64bit modules are all windows stuff: kernel32.dll and its dependencies. 23:40:00 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:24 -!- goner [~goner@unaffiliated/goner] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:41:25 goner [~goner@unaffiliated/goner] has joined #lisp 23:41:33 adeht: so not something i compiled myself.. Is it normal? I'm a complete ignorant on this subject. 23:42:34 laynor: tbh I never used a 64-bit windows version.. switched to linux some years ago 23:43:05 adeht: :-) I switched back to windows this year after 10 years of linux lol 23:44:03 laynor: what exports are missing? 23:44:17 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:48 -!- sellout [~greg@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 23:45:34 adeht: do missing exports appear like a "C" in a red rectangle? 23:45:56 I mean, in the dependency walker 23:46:38 _JFT_ [~JFT@modemcable204.87-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:47:26 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 23:47:48 I think the red rectangle indicates that they are missing, yes 23:47:57 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-095.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:57 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:49:13 the functions with the red rectangle are InterlockedExchange and interlockedCompareExchange 23:49:37 heh 23:50:07 adeht: uhm, but those are the unresolved imports (reading depends docs right now). No idea how to figure the missing exports 23:50:08 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:36 laynor: those are definitely to be found in kernel32.dll 23:52:56 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-48.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please] 23:53:24 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.80] has joined #lisp 23:53:25 adeht: by the way, kernel32.dll apears in red, and it seems the missing exports should be in some kernel32.dll dependency from what I'm reading in the depends doc. 23:54:53 I can load kernel32.dll succesfully with cffi. I don't know if it means anything at all though :P 23:56:30 laynor: I believe kernel32.dll is already loaded if the process is a 32-bit process.. it's quite an important dll :) 23:56:30 uhm, strangely enough, if I open the kernel32.dll in depends, it's not red and it's not missing any export function. 23:57:15 adeht: uhm, it makes sense ^^; 23:57:56 I don't know enough about 64-bit windows to be helpful at this point :x 23:58:04 reloading it I get different foreign library objects, but I guess those are just wrappers