00:03:06 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:19 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 00:05:47 argiopeweb [~elliot@host216-143.cvcom.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 00:06:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:02 Sonjaaa [~sonja@69-165-131-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:15 is there such a thing as lisp or scheme without all the parens? 00:09:01 That's debatable. Dylan tried it, but ceased to be particularly lispy. 00:17:19 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:17:27 ^jamie^ [~user@5ad024d8.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:22:51 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:45 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 00:30:48 -!- ^jamie^ [~user@5ad024d8.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 00:31:05 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:31:27 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:44 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:34:01 Sonjaaa: every once in a while someone tries. Usually they stop, either trying or being a Lisp 00:35:20 there are some macro systems allowing arbitrary (at least in theory) syntax out there, but I haven't really looked at any in detail 00:35:30 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:42 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 00:37:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:26 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:50 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 00:40:40 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:11 mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:03 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 00:48:39 -!- smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:25 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:00:35 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-173-4-249.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:01:27 rtoym: what's the (require ...) bit needed to pull in network stuff? 01:01:48 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:01:55 (if anything?) 01:04:13 maxigas [~user@host86-173-4-249.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:21 How do I convert a symbol to string? I tried (intern "foo") => 01:05:22 |foo| :intern but eventually i get it back as packagename::foo. or 01:05:22 is it not possible to do it without that because all the symbols 01:05:22 belong to a namespace? i just want to get 'foo. is that called a 01:05:22 name, not a symbol? 01:06:15 yeah, all symbols belong to some package 01:06:32 maxigas: symbol-name is one function that will do it 01:06:33 i think intern takes a package as an optional arg though 01:06:43 maxigas: cl:string is another. 01:07:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:38 sorry: i need string -> symbol. 01:08:07 maxigas: make-symbol will do that. 01:08:15 toast: that's true, i can do (intern "foo") => |currentpackage::foo| 01:08:28 doubtful. 01:08:29 yeah, i forgot about make-symbol 01:08:40 Xach: aha, i think i need make-symbol 01:08:43 *toast`* is new, so ignore anything fishy i say 01:09:12 maxigas: what are you actually doing? 01:09:16 of course, (eq (make-symbol "hello") (make-symbol "hello")) ==> nil, right? 01:09:49 toast`: what you said is still true though. except there are "uninterned symbols", but i am not sure myself what they are. 01:10:10 toast`: that's true. 01:10:19 toast`: in SCBL it is for sure. i just tried it. 01:10:25 an uninterned symbol is a symbol that is not interned in a package. 01:10:54 make-symbol makes uninterned symbols. intern finds or creates symbols in some package, the value of *package* if you don't specify otherwise. 01:11:56 however, (eq (intern "hello") (intern "hello)) => T 01:13:29 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:14:23 (let ((x (list (make-symbol "foo")))) (if (find (make-symbol "foo") x) T NIL)) => NIL 01:15:14 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:58 that's a convoluted way to restate what toast said regarding EQ. 01:16:04 so (find x (list x z)) uses (eq x y) for testing ? 01:16:12 maxigas: it uses EQL. 01:16:30 mornfall: you can supply another test function explicitly if you like. 01:16:35 sorry, maxigas rather 01:17:46 *Xach* looks around for an rme 01:17:47 is there a test function that will (???= (make-symbol "foo") (make-symbol "foo)) => T 01:17:49 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 ? 01:18:13 maxigas: STRING= 01:18:23 :) 01:18:29 symbols are designators for the strings that are their names. 01:19:07 maxigas - well, that's what packages are for :) 01:19:18 Xach: aha, i see what you mean. 01:19:21 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:19:40 as long as you don't need to use the property list or anything, you should be able to safely put them into the keyword package 01:19:46 is 'foo a symbol? 01:19:54 maxigas: 'foo evaluates to a symbol. 01:20:05 maxigas: it is reader syntax for (QUOTE FOO) 01:20:06 Xach: No, I didn't see the multiple asd files for f2cl. Where are they? 01:20:16 rtoym: there's one in debian/f2cl.asd 01:20:26 Xach: Networking should be in the default core. 01:20:32 rtoym: ok, thanks. 01:21:07 -!- Sonjaaa [~sonja@69-165-131-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 01:21:39 Xach: Oh. I don't know. I didn't create the debian directory. The src/f2cl.asd is probably out of date. I don't normally use asdf. :-) 01:21:46 bbiab.... 01:22:13 (eq (intern "HELLO" (find-package :keyword)) :hello) => T 01:22:15 rtoym: it seemed to compile and load successfully for me. 01:22:33 toast`: probably. can depend on some reader settings. 01:23:10 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:23:28 there we go: (eq (intern "HELLO" (find-package "KEYWORD")) :hello) => T 01:24:02 xach - what do you mean about reader settings? 01:24:04 for example? 01:24:37 brb -- i'll check the logs 01:25:02 i was trying to make it very simple, just checking if an element is in a list or not with find, then i discovered: (find "foo" (list "foo" "bar" "baz")) BUT (find 'foo (list 'foo 'bar 'baz)) => FOO 01:25:17 Hmm, I suppose that specific example is always going to work. I was thinking of the effects of readtable-case per 23.1.2 01:25:37 maxigas: for the former, add :test #'string= 01:25:39 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:07 maxigas: or :test #'equalp - or some other options too 01:27:14 xach - ah, thx 01:27:59 Xach: wow that's great. 01:28:10 Xach: thanks. 01:29:06 i was sidetracked to using symbols because in Scheme it was quite practical afair. 01:29:45 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:25 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:33:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:33:20 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-173-4-249.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:42:46 yeah, i think scheme instead takes the route of environments. you can easily have symbol colllisions, but it's okay because you never load the two definitions into the same environment 01:42:55 pr_ [~pr@p4FE2D893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:55 -!- pr_ [~pr@p4FE2D893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43:11 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:43:48 CL has one environment but different packages -- a kind of namespace, so 'foo can refer to different symbols depending on which package you're in 01:44:04 at least, that's how i think of it. (hopefully someone will correct me if i'm wrong) 01:46:06 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-59.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:46:07 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-59.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:15 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 01:46:42 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:38 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:50 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@host216-143.cvcom.fit.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:30 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-065-013-015-097.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:03 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:40 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:24 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:05 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8D1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:41 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:12 toast`: what do you mean 'one environment'? 02:14:00 bah. ironclad compilation crashed this system again. 02:14:33 Anyone want to try a feature-poor quicklisp preview? 02:15:25 "quicklisp"? 02:15:48 that's what i'm calling it. 02:16:06 calling what? :\ 02:16:19 quicklisp! 02:16:29 what's quicklisp?! 02:16:47 It's a way to get a supportive library environment in CL quickly. 02:16:57 oh 02:17:01 A little like clbuild in that respect. 02:18:43 sykopomp: It includes your libraries! well, it will. 02:19:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:19:26 *nyef* would be surprised if it included his libraries. 02:20:13 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:20:24 nevermore isn't really a library... 02:20:31 I was more thinking lh-usb. 02:20:51 sykopomp: You want to try it? It's pretty easy to try... 02:21:03 Xach: link? :) 02:21:41 Is that like "the dead and the quick"? 02:23:00 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:28 sykopomp: i mean, each symbol has one set of bindings 02:23:31 regarding nevermore... which one of the TI Explorer emulators is more usable? Nevermore or Meroku? 02:23:48 *Meroko 02:23:50 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 02:24:02 Probably Meroko. 02:24:15 good morning 02:24:27 I'm not sure I ever hooked up the keyboard stuff properly. 02:24:49 That said, which one would you rather hack on? ^_- 02:25:03 nyef: VLM2 :P 02:25:41 toast`: Common Lisp has lexical scoping, like Scheme does. 02:25:43 there was a reason why I went to length to grab IDA Pro that could understand DEC OSF/1 binaries :D 02:25:51 *lengths 02:26:05 sykopomp: yes, except for the top level 02:26:10 like, defun 02:26:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:26:43 toast`: indeed. 02:27:07 yes, you're right -- for everything but the top level, their scoping behavior is identical 02:27:11 Xach: Something new in quicklisp? Want me to try it? 02:27:22 quicklisp is way cool 02:27:33 nyef: interestingly enough, VLM isn't (completely) dead 02:27:33 rtoym: Some slight cleanup, nothing especially new to try yet. 02:27:37 (well, and macros are way different too, but that goes without saying) 02:27:58 rtoym: it won't keep re-downloading the tarballs, but it still doesn't remember the new software from session to session. 02:28:50 Xach: I haven't tried anything since the last time, so I hadn't noticed that. :-) 02:29:06 quicklisp? 02:29:39 toast: Probably what you're trying to get at is that CL supports symbols as a kind of first class variable. 02:29:42 googling yields => http://userweb.cs.utexas.edu/~novak/quicklisp.html, which is a cool one-page cheat sheet i can use at work, but i doubt it's what was intended 02:30:05 zhivago: that, and symbols are themselves structured into packages 02:30:27 the difference is both subtle and, mostly, insignificant 02:30:46 but in CL, i can see where a symbol calls home, and "foo" doesn't always eq "foo" 02:30:59 in scheme, i never can, and "foo" always eq "foo", right? 02:31:16 toast`: quicklisp is (well, will be) a way to get a lot of libraries available quickly. 02:31:31 xach: sounds cool. link? 02:31:32 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:31:34 toast`: best to quit while you're behind. 02:31:41 fair enough 02:31:51 toast`: no real public link, but i'll /msg you. 02:32:25 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 02:32:30 *p_l* notes that Ivory function entrypoint looks similar to PDP-10 Maclisp assembler macro used for FFI... 02:33:51 -!- ziggy_ [~ziggy@de2-as16463.alshamil.net.ae] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:30 ziggy_ [~ziggy@de2-as16463.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 02:35:57 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:36:05 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:02 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:37:31 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:38:01 tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has joined #lisp 02:38:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:39:10 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has left #lisp 02:39:14 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:30 tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has joined #lisp 02:41:59 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 02:43:19 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:43:28 *Xach* forgot about corman, wonders if it's deader than usual lately 02:43:48 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:53 Xach: Stalled but not completely dead, afaik 02:48:19 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:06 "I'm not dead yet!" 02:50:12 reminds me of Like-Hell-I'm-Dead! Battlefront" xD 02:53:56 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:54 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 02:57:13 -!- curi [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:30 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:43 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 03:06:22 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 03:06:29 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:04 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:07:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vaknotmggjkuvpjl] has joined #lisp 03:08:04 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-230.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:13:33 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-48-159.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:16:36 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:17:51 pnq [asdf@ACA4A8D7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:39 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:24:15 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:21 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:02 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:42 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-065-013-015-097.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:18 so, eval only takes one arg - the form to evaluate. but *eval-hook* gets two: the form, and the environment to evaluate in. However, 20.1 doesn't seem to provide any more details about this 'environment' type 03:32:31 what is an environment, and how do i manipulate it? 03:32:53 System dependent; system dependent. 03:33:38 heh, i should have guessed. 03:34:30 toast: CLTL1 can show you what is generally intended by those. 03:34:58 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fdqswsntjuejobga] has joined #lisp 03:35:06 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 Sorry, I mean CLTL2. 03:36:44 yeah, 20.1 03:36:51 brb 03:37:24 asarch [~asarch@189.188.157.62] has joined #lisp 03:37:39 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:37:39 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:37 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fdqswsntjuejobga] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:51 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uzbvconmxjjollcz] has joined #lisp 03:39:59 cbeok [~user@CPE-76-85-179-51.neb.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:24 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:43:26 hello 03:44:27 ehlo 03:44:48 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:50:38 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:51:36 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:55:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:57:12 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA4A8D7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:18 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 03:58:06 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 03:58:20 how do dynamic variables work in the presence of multithreading? are they local to each thread? 03:59:46 iced tea yummy! LOL 03:59:52 it works fine now 04:00:43 toast`: symbol-value is shared, bindings are local 04:02:03 ost: do you mean (symbol-value 'foo:bar) will always evaluate the same on all threads between any two changes in binding? 04:02:24 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-tkxljelribrdnuaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:42 -!- cbeok [~user@CPE-76-85-179-51.neb.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:46 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:03 toast`: try it =) 04:06:00 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 04:06:06 G'day! 04:06:21 evenin' 04:06:50 morning 04:07:42 i have a feeling i'm on the wrong continent 04:09:00 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:09:57 toast`: Global values are shared by threads. Bindings become per-thread. 04:10:06 ost: symbol-value sees bindings. 04:10:13 plage: true 04:10:37 toast`: Just a different one from me and ost. 04:10:43 that's what i'd expect, but i'm still getting the feel of CL 04:11:14 and cltl is like C++03 and earlier in its non-recognition of the existance of threads 04:12:00 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 toast`: "existence" 04:13:02 yes, that's what i would have written had i been awake 04:14:09 But you are on the wrong continent to be awake. 04:16:13 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:35 (intern (self) "EUROPE") 04:20:29 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:38 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:00 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:26:43 toast`: C++03? how it maps to the infamous C++0x? 04:27:04 C++0x recognizes the existence of threads 04:27:24 -!- sileinius_ [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:35 afaik it recognizes the need for TLS and adds parts of Boost as mandatory, right? 04:28:00 basically. but it doesn't cite boost, it standardizes it 04:28:11 also defines a memory model for concurrent execution 04:28:59 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:11 oh, and here's the best part --- it's _finally_ adding lambda expressions 04:29:47 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:29:55 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:30:31 perhaps next they'll consider macros that honor namespaces, regularizing the syntax, perhaps add some limited s-expr support... 04:30:37 sorry, wild tangent there. 04:32:52 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-48-159.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 04:37:14 toast`: If adding lambda expressions is the best part, the rest must be truly bad. 04:37:31 plage: why do you say that? 04:39:14 evening folks 04:39:18 toast`: Because that's something Lisp has had for quite some time. If they are trying to catch up with Lisp, and that's the best they can do, I can't imagine there will be anything worth considering in the rest of it. 04:39:24 Hello slyrus_ 04:39:39 plague: that's what i was getting at, yes. 04:39:54 toast`: "plage" please. 04:40:06 doh, sorry, i keep doing that 04:40:10 toast`: It is a foreign language called French, and it means "beach". 04:40:43 toast`: Just type "plag" and then use completion. 04:40:45 i blame muscle memory. which has me wondering why i wrote about plagues enough for muscle memory to be a factor 04:41:02 bleck, my irc client doesn't have completion 04:41:03 or, as the sometimes say in america, be-ahh-itch 04:41:12 toast`: Use an IRC client that does. 04:41:16 oh, wait, that's a different word... 04:41:20 OSX. suggestions? 04:41:33 beirc! 04:41:50 toast`: ERC ought to work. 04:41:55 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:58 -!- rme [rme@clozure-70A3CE26.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:41:58 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:42:00 plage: what's new in clim-land? 04:42:06 ERC works 04:42:11 :P 04:42:26 toast`: That way you get not only completion, but also abbrevs, spell checker (if you like), etc, etc. 04:42:42 slyrus_: Not much. Working on SICL at the moment. 04:42:52 lets see. C++0x is also adding hash tables (only had binary trees standard up till now, though everyone had their own nonstandard ones) 04:42:52 remind me, SICL? 04:43:01 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:43:15 very limited type inference. and a bunch of template tools 04:43:54 slyrus_: Crazy project. Trying to define as large parts of CL as possible as portable, yet high-performance, libraries to be maintained independently. Ultimately perhaps, an entirely new system based on it, but mostly modules for other CL implementors. 04:44:03 they added lambdas, but no labels/letrec equivalent. 04:44:15 plage: ah, right. thanks. 04:44:18 which is _very_ annoying when you need it 04:44:53 toast`: I am sure you could use templates or something like that to define the Y combinator. 04:45:12 plage: you can. but it's not pretty. 04:45:34 toast`: Are you mentioning C++ and pretty in the same phrase? 04:46:20 well, okay. you can, but it's double-plus-unpretty 04:46:47 as opposed to the usual unpretty 04:46:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:47:34 slyrus_: Some of the important special cases of some of the sequence and list functions are already significantly faster than the SBCL equivalent. 04:48:22 nice! 04:48:44 slyrus_: Yeah, it gives me confidence that my idea was good. 04:48:56 plage: I'm not sure to whom I should complain, but the clim-gtkairo backend seems rather busted these days. 04:49:16 slyrus_: Not sure either. Perhaps lichtblau? 04:49:35 I suggested that to him and he implied that he wasn't the current maintainer. 04:49:42 Hmm. 04:49:53 How about _8david then :) 04:49:59 heh 04:51:14 Brucio-12 [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:27 slyrus_: I actually found some drinkable Da Lat wine... in Da Lat. 04:51:28 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.157.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:44 well, even if the gtkairo backend doesn't work, at least the vanilla mcclim beirc stills seems to work! 04:52:03 Nice! 04:52:05 plage: wow. is that one of those places where they get two vintages per year? 04:52:12 -!- Brucio-12 is now known as beslyrus 04:53:00 beslyrus: Entirely possible. The minimum temperature is 19°C and the maximum is 22°C, at least at this time of year. It rains a lot, but there is also plenty of sun. It has great potential. 04:53:42 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:54:08 i.e, 19°C is not the min of the max temperatures over a month, but the lowest temperature over 24h 04:54:25 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 04:54:26 toast: You can implement labels/letrec given lambda and variables. 04:54:28 I think I'll retire to this place. 04:55:07 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@119.224.32.224] has joined #lisp 04:55:28 zhivago: i was talking about C++. the problems are the types. you can work around it by binding in a function<> object, but you loose any chance at optimization that way 04:56:22 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:57:40 toast: Why can't you generate pointers of the appropriate function pointer types? 04:58:17 zhivago: if the lambda closes over anything, it can't convert to a function pointer 04:58:39 Can nothing point at a closure? 04:58:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:05 that's the thing, a function pointer is a program counter address, not the address of a closure 04:59:38 oh, yeah, the closure itself is an object that is a normal C++ class, with an operator() 04:59:55 you can store it in a std::function object. but then it will never inline 05:00:23 Then you should be able to use method pointers. 05:00:30 how creepy 05:01:03 std::function even, odd; even = [](int x){ if (x == 0) return true; else return !odd(x-1); }; odd = [](int x){ if (x == 0) return false; else return !even(x-1);}; 05:01:04 smolyn [~smolyn@S0106002500fe5c20.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:23 -!- smolyn [~smolyn@S0106002500fe5c20.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:33 Zhivago: can't. to declare a method pointer, you need to spell out the type. but you can't write the name of a lambda type 05:01:46 oh, wait, but you could write a template to capture that 05:01:50 ugh, but such a pain 05:02:07 toast`: Any particular reason not to use Lisp instead? 05:02:15 even then, it won't work. you'll have to use 'auto' to deduce the name, and it puts you back to square one 05:02:29 plage: because they pay me not to. 05:02:37 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483C9BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:01 suckiness(c++0x) = suckiness(c++03) - epsilon 05:03:44 at least i have an flet equivalent now. 05:03:48 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:30 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D487.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:04 and a fexpr equivalent too 05:05:28 summersault [~george@189.107.132.244] has joined #lisp 05:05:41 for_all( things, [&](Thing thing){ doStuffWith(thing); }); 05:06:21 it's like living in 1968, right as things were getting interesting. 05:07:25 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:08:06 toast`: For what it's worth, I wouldn't work for an employer who paid me for not using Lisp. 05:08:57 plaqe: someday. someday. 05:09:14 toast`: I see you are not using ERC yet. 05:09:21 :P 05:09:40 can i just call you xyzzy? 05:10:31 I wouldn't be very reactive then. 05:11:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:56 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:14:49 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 05:16:07 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-181-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:21 yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 05:16:45 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24:16 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:55 -!- eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:26:03 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:27:06 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:29:11 rtoym: thanks that worked. I am interested in numerical packages. Not yet have an idea what to use oct for. BTW, can that be fixed upstream? 05:31:53 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@119.224.32.224] has joined #lisp 05:32:00 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@119.224.32.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:08 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:00 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@119.224.32.224] has quit [Client Quit] 05:36:50 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:37:18 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest84919 05:41:30 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-102.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:44:09 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 05:44:43 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:49:44 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has left #lisp 05:52:24 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-uoijwvdaekswficq] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:53:08 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zuthznbnfewjsash] has joined #lisp 05:57:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:58:03 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:29 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:14 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:02:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:02:59 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:03:42 hello 06:03:50 hi kiuma 06:04:11 I have the following string (base64:base64-string-to-string "UHJlbWlhdG8gY2FzaW7yIGRlbGwnYW5ubyE=") 06:04:45 sorry this one :) "=?iso-8859-1?B?UHJlbWlhdG8gY2FzaW7yIGRlbGwnYW5ubyE=?=" 06:06:13 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 06:06:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 kiuma: and? 06:08:01 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:09:01 -!- Guest84919 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:09:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:12:17 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:14:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:15:24 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 06:16:35 I hate this network that reset my vpn connection, did I loose any reply ? is it possible to see previous messages in irc, which is the command ? 06:17:10 kiuma: you said you have a string "=?iso-8859-1?B?UHJlbWlhdG8gY2FzaW7yIGRlbGwnYW5ubyE=?=" 06:17:10 /lastlog? 06:17:15 it depends on your client. 06:18:53 ost, is it my last message ? 06:19:13 last that I saw 06:19:27 ok , I wrote too: 06:19:32 the substring "UHJlbWlhdG8gY2FzaW7yIGRlbGwnYW5ubyE=" is base64 encoded and it's "Premiato casiṇ dell'anno!" 06:19:40 My question is: should I care about that "iso-8859-1" ? 06:19:45 "iso-8859-1" coud be "utf-8" "cp850" and so on 06:19:50 if I should, what would I have to do ? 06:19:58 that was! 06:19:59 :) 06:21:07 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 06:21:50 after this I still have to decode body messages and add TLS capabilities to complete the imap4-client lib and publish it :) 06:21:51 kiuma: yes, you should care. 06:21:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:59 ost, how ? 06:22:00 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-17-230.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:22:28 kiuma: you should you base64:base64-string-to-usb8-array and convert that to a string using the spicified encoding 06:22:51 ok I try 06:23:17 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8D1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:01 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:25:11 ost, which is the function to convert it (ps. babel doesn't cover all kind of encodings) 06:25:39 irrc babel doesn't hadle cp850 06:25:43 *handle 06:27:01 debianuser [~debian@broadband-77-37-196-61.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 06:27:55 kiuma: then add it to babel 06:28:33 ok 06:28:39 kiuma: I don't know of a library/implementation that can handle all encodings 06:29:01 sbcl seems to support them 06:29:20 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ #10.1 06:30:27 so you can just use SBCL's sb-ext:octets-to-string 06:30:38 and ignore babel 06:34:29 well, is it wise to bind the library to only sbcl implementation ? 06:34:38 just asking 06:37:50 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:38:02 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:38:43 good morning 06:39:05 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:12 ost: I have an exaple encoding not supported by babel is :windows-1252 06:39:18 *kiuma* hates windows 06:42:18 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:42:55 kiuma: if you ask me, I'm happy with what SBCL offers to me, but I'm not releasing any libraries to public 06:44:21 I guessed so, it means that if my intent is to release to public I should not bind it to sbcl only :/ 06:44:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:22 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:44:24 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 06:44:47 kiuma: if your intent is to release to the public, the public can do the work of porting 06:44:54 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 06:45:36 Krystof, good point, I like it :) 06:46:49 hmm... has anyone here looked at STELLA? 06:53:12 hmm, "The main difference is that most STELLA conditionals are statements and therefore do not return a value." that seems weird 06:54:16 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.5.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:32 ah, translated into C++. it probably makes the generated code easier to debug with statement-oriented debug tools. 06:56:02 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:56:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:56:42 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:57:37 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:00:55 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:01:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:01:51 yeah, the recommended programming method is to use a CL environment (Emacs + some CL) then when it works to your satisfaction dump it into java or C++ :D 07:04:40 -!- debianuser [~debian@broadband-77-37-196-61.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:04:57 hmm.. Qi II has much nicer license than Qi I 07:05:43 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:05:46 wait until he writes another book (-; 07:06:05 I think he learned his lesson the first time. :) 07:06:54 heh 07:08:36 *p_l* was searching through "Common Lisp Applications" on Wikipedia 07:08:47 no wonder people still come here talking about AI 07:11:57 -!- rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:01 rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:34 why on call (elt "Premiato casiṇ dell'anno!" 2) I have Attempt to access unrecorded object (id 19). ? 07:12:47 argh. TI Explorer had really infuriating resolution when it comes to modern laptops... 07:12:56 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:13:09 kiuma: I get #\e 07:13:35 kiuma: that's a slime error regarding emacs<->CL identity management 07:13:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:01 attila_lendvai, what should I do ? 07:14:09 probably copy-pasted a presentation and the underlying hashtable lost the mapping 07:14:20 edit the reference, then it loses the annotation 07:14:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:14:38 attila_lendvai, ok , so that's not a problem :) 07:14:38 (here i have red overlay for presentations) 07:15:23 I have too 07:19:03 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 07:22:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:24:54 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:25:36 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 07:25:37 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:12 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 07:42:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:42:08 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:42:09 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 07:43:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:43:39 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:47:07 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-63-77.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:49:16 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 07:49:25 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:10 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-43-83.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:37 fiveop [~fiveop@g229113246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:52:51 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:00:18 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:40 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 -!- yoonkn_ [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:06 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 08:06:25 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 08:11:29 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.65] has joined #lisp 08:11:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:15 -!- bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:49 manze [~manze@123.160.133.46] has joined #lisp 08:15:50 debianuser [~debian@broadband-77-37-196-61.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 08:16:37 anybody give me some suggest with transcating c to cffi-lisp 08:16:58 what is better between swig and sb-grovel?? 08:17:01 -!- debianuser [~debian@broadband-77-37-196-61.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:22:23 aw [~aw@141.76.6.234] has joined #lisp 08:22:51 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:13 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:28:27 -!- manze [~manze@123.160.133.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:12 sfinx1 [~sfinx@aesv63.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:32:15 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229113246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:32:43 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483C9BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:32:59 -!- sfinx1 [~sfinx@aesv63.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #lisp 08:33:57 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:34:24 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:35:23 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:37:32 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 08:44:12 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:36 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 08:46:59 stassats: I left a memo for you. 08:47:10 Gary King is pretty much gone nowadays... anybody knows anything about him? 08:47:12 minion: give me my memo! 08:47:12 stassats: please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 08:47:12 stassats, memo from leo2007: please apply the patch in http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/225406/ in slime which avoids using the internal variable (thanks to Fare). 08:48:22 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 08:50:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 08:51:15 leo2007: ok, applied. 08:51:22 stassats: cheers. 08:53:31 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:54:59 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-208.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:55:17 revel0__ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 08:59:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:12 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:03:22 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 09:11:14 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:52 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:16:05 I don't remember ho to convert a string into a keyword 09:16:05 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:16:31 What do you think how it's done? 09:16:38 What is keyword? 09:16:51 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn291.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:24 tcr, "windows-1252" -> :WINDOWS-1252 09:18:47 in package keywords ? 09:19:23 Sure intern the string in the KEYWORD package 09:19:32 or use alexandria:make-keyword 09:21:07 tcr is (intern "WINDOWS-1252" (find-package 'keyword)) performant ? 09:21:29 or it's better alexandria ? 09:21:52 kiuma: or (intern "FOO" :keyword) 09:22:02 ahh ok 09:22:59 does exist something like multiple-value-bind for lists ? 09:23:18 destructuring-bind 09:23:19 destructuring-bind 09:23:25 and &optional 09:23:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:06 thx 09:26:35 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 09:29:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.131.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:42 -!- moshisushi [~henry@h-135-6.A288.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:59 Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has joined #lisp 09:47:59 how do I bind code-char to a particular external-format ? 09:48:29 good day everyone 09:48:30 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:42 kiuma: what do you mean? 09:48:45 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48:58 kiuma: btw, don't use char-code 09:49:23 ost, what should I use 09:49:28 Dodek [dodek@83.1.166.6] has joined #lisp 09:49:33 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:49:42 kiuma: string-to-octets 09:49:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:50:08 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:50:14 ost, I've to decode quoted strings now 09:50:31 ost a quoted string is of the form : 09:50:34 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:50:59 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C9BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:17 ost, =?windows-1252?Q?..._fare_regali_non_=E8_mai_stato_cos=EC_comodo?= 09:51:49 err, octets-to-string =) 09:52:09 I've to translate those =E8 -> (232) into the correct encoded char 09:52:25 ok I try 09:52:46 this part of the IMAP lib is a bit anoying :) 09:54:58 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:05 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 09:57:13 Good evening! 09:57:21 [or nearly so] 09:57:45 hi plage 09:57:48 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:21 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:17 hello plage 10:07:03 hey mvilleneuve. What's up? 10:09:57 *Xach* feels the excitement now 10:10:45 hi plage 10:11:42 Xach: What about? 10:12:51 plage: writing some web server code for a customer, in Lisp, which is cool 10:14:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:53 mvilleneuve: Nice! Not part of the core business plan though perhaps? 10:15:00 plage: quicklisp 10:15:15 plage: would you like to try a very early, low-functionality demo? 10:16:42 Xach: Depends on how much time and energy it takes, and how soon you want it. 10:17:03 If you can download and load a file, you can try quicklisp. 10:17:28 plage: actually yes, it's a server for a mobile application we're developing 10:17:33 what is quicklisp? 10:18:27 hypno: it's a way to get a lot of CL libraries available quickly. 10:19:21 ah, sounds nice. :) 10:19:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:19:56 Xach: will quicklisp also work with ASDF systems already on the user's machine ? 10:20:21 kpreid___ [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:25 -!- kpreid___ is now known as kpreid 10:20:37 Xach: Looks like it worked! Congratulations! 10:21:00 mvilleneuve: Great! 10:21:21 fe[nl]ix: yes. 10:21:47 fe[nl]ix: I'm not sure if that will solve more problems than it causes - we'll see. 10:22:03 hello ;) does anyone here have some experience with snap4 / opengenera? i'm trying to get it to work, but face two problems: my lispm user can't create a tun device (only root can do that), and my lispm user can't access my local x server (but i don't want to open it fully with xhost +) 10:24:03 ah, xhost +local:lispm solves the second problem 10:24:04 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:18 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 10:24:57 question on package naming: I currently named my library "mail-cl" with nickname "mcl" is it a good naming ? 10:25:08 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:25:18 kiuma: that is absolutely terrible. 10:25:18 Xach: Looks like it works. Congratulations! 10:25:23 plage: tusen tack 10:25:28 I suspected it :) 10:25:35 kiuma: MCL is the name of a Common Lisp implementation. 10:25:46 Xach: Pleasure! 10:25:46 I suspected it too 10:25:55 How about kiumail? 10:26:17 Xach, my ego is not so big :D 10:26:38 climap ? 10:26:50 wretched for tab completion 10:26:57 but not a terrible name 10:27:19 Xof, well but I don't like it too :) 10:27:23 clonsignia 10:28:00 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 10:28:56 as soon I'll be able to successfully parse cmd-fetch-fields and have a good name, I'll share the lib :) 10:29:33 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:04 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:30:22 ps: cmd-fetch-fields returns message id uid flags and header fields (date from to cc subject) 10:31:01 Xof, could be nice for clonsigna, suggestion for nickname ? 10:31:03 HG` [~HG@85.8.91.63] has joined #lisp 10:33:47 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:34:46 I would suggest not having any nicknames 10:35:02 okoi 10:35:07 *oki 10:35:10 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has left #lisp 10:35:21 "ok" 10:36:39 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:37:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:41 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:37:43 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:38:40 ok ok :) 10:40:20 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:45:14 is it possible to rename an inherited slot? 10:48:25 ... anyone using FastCGI? 10:49:38 laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9a43.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 10:52:16 leo2007: I don't think that makes sense 10:54:40 I am customise a class from GSLL, which has a slot called TYPE, but I want it to be called ALGORITHM in the subclass. 10:55:03 because TYPE doesn't say much. 10:55:35 you can add an accessor to that slot called ALGORITHM 10:55:35 <_3b`> would an accessor names ALGORITHM that looks at the TYPE slot be close enough? 10:55:38 leo2007: you can give it additional readers or accessors 10:56:18 thanks. I'll do that. 10:58:14 I find most of the time I don't want the ARG to slime-inspect to be eval'd. Is that customisable? 10:58:22 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-62.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:01 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111078.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:00:59 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:44 bojovs [~bojovs@p6204-ipad301hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:02:47 leo2007: really? what kinds of things do you inspect? 11:04:03 Xach: for example, when I move the cursor to the superclass list and hit C-c I the initial input should not be eval'd. 11:04:17 I have been type C-a ' 11:11:54 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:09 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:13:34 is it always using (loop) macro the best choice, or in particular conditions it better to use (do) ? 11:14:26 it seems that my parser using loop could get a bit tricky 11:16:12 kiuma: I sometimes use do 11:16:33 ok 11:22:15 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-208.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:01 how can I create a cl-ppcre scanner that matches all #\Linefeed and wsp (white spaces) ? (cl-ppcre:create-scanner "~a\\s" ?? :single-line-mode t) 11:28:59 *(cl-ppcre:create-scanner (format nil "~a\\s" ??) :single-line-mode t) 11:29:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:30:36 kiuma: you mean (string #\newline)? 11:31:10 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-62.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:23 I thought it didn't work (format nil "~a\\s" #\Linefeed), but it works :) 11:34:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:34:36 spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 11:36:22 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:19 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 11:41:10 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.60] has joined #lisp 11:44:23 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 11:52:38 Edward_ [Ed@90.3.67.200] has joined #lisp 11:53:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:53:44 aw [~aw@w4179.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:10 zomgbie [~jesus@80.187.219.39] has joined #lisp 11:56:45 kiuma: there are some rfc1234 libs... are you sure you're not reimplementing something? just making sure... 11:56:57 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@p6204-ipad301hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: bye-bye] 11:58:30 attila_lendvai, rfc3501 rfc2822 and rfc2045-rfc2049 here. (partially) 11:58:50 with facilities too 12:00:04 there's some 2388-binary. it seemed to be related to how attachments are encoded in emails... and i seem to remember doing somewhat similar decoding in parsing http posts 12:05:26 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:05:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:08:09 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:08:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uzbvconmxjjollcz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:19:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:21:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:23:08 my connection :/ 12:23:20 what was my last sentence here ? 12:23:29 "my connection :/" 12:23:38 I think I'll go back to using Java. Lisp is too hard! 12:24:48 lol 12:24:53 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:03 Xach, it's not lisp related :P 12:25:21 (clonsigna::decode-string "=?iso-8859-1?B?Q2FzaW7yIGRlbGySYW5ubyAyMDEw?=") -> "Casiṇ dell\222anno 2010" 12:25:46 should be "Casiṇ dell'anno 2010" 12:25:53 -!- aw [~aw@w4179.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 12:25:57 (from a spammer of course) 12:26:08 why do I have \222 12:26:32 Xach, anyway for imap client lib, lisp is easier then jave 12:26:35 *java 12:26:40 :P 12:27:39 LOL, horde produces the same s##t , it's ok :) 12:28:03 spammers=idiots ... :) 12:28:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@80.187.219.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:18 kiuma: \222 is corresponds to the windows-1250 encoding of U+2109, DEGREE_FAHRENHEIT 12:29:49 sorry, transposition error 12:30:02 U+2019, RIGHT_SINGLE_QUOTATION_MARK 12:31:16 Xach, it should have been then "=?windows-1252?B?Q2FzaW7yIGRlbGySYW5ubyAyMDEw?=" 12:31:37 but they set format to "iso-8859-7" 12:31:59 greek? 12:31:59 kiuma: time to send the spammer a stern letter regarding correct encoding 12:32:09 hehe 12:32:28 ost, yes 12:32:39 but I'm italian 12:32:49 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 I wonder if there is a way to correct format , or it's a user task 12:33:24 the hardes part of MIME is that no one is doing it right =) 12:33:33 -!- peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-35-129-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:34:12 ost, good :/ , it will be funny to see what the lib will decode :) 12:34:44 peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-27-200-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:34 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152199028.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 12:40:22 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:01 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has left #lisp 12:45:01 -!- Edward_ [Ed@90.3.67.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152199028.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:48:18 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152199028.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:28 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-227.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:57 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:00:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vaknotmggjkuvpjl] has left #lisp 13:04:29 aw [~aw@w4179.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-253-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:45 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:01 rtoym: ah, i remember the sourceforge problem now. "cvs export" will not export to a subdirectory, e.g. "cvs export -d foo ..." works but "cvs export -d foo/bar ..." fails. not a problem with non-sourceforge servers. 13:13:10 I know that (getf '("a" 1 "b" 2) "a") doesn't work and I still don't know if I can convert list strings into keyword (I have to carefully read rfc), but in that case what should I use instead of getf ? 13:13:45 kiuma: you could write your own function. 13:14:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:59 Use association lists and assoc which takes a :test argument 13:16:14 tcr, thx 13:16:15 or use MEMBER 13:16:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:16:50 tcr: that doesn't quite respect the key/value structure 13:17:31 Sure but doesn't matter in that example 13:21:19 kiuma: what specificly are you doing? when i've runned into conversion between strings and symbols or keywords (and vice versa), i've usually made a mess of the design a lot earlier... 13:22:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:24:39 hypno, I'm just aggregating an imap fetch result 13:24:49 it will be in the form of 13:25:47 (:ID 142 :UID 6742 :FLAGS ("Seen") :HEADERS (:date "xxxx" :from "xxxx" :to "xxxx" :subject "xxx")) 13:26:29 anyway I've just found a bug with seen flag that should be "\Seen" 13:27:48 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-122-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:55 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn291.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:36:10 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:36:30 why not use a class? 13:42:12 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-197-147.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:57 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:24 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 13:48:04 kiuma: if you have a defined set of symbols you could use find-symbol 13:48:36 i find it pretty safe and useful 13:49:28 emma: hi, i'm back in massachusetts :) 13:50:19 hi dto!! 13:50:35 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:47 dto: What third-party libraries did you use for your latest project? 13:51:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:16 Xach: lispbuilder-sdl, that's pretty much it 13:52:19 and its dependencies 13:52:22 jyncka1 [~ddalcin@mail.archer-group.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:19 Ah, ok. Cool. 13:55:28 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-36-81.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:57:13 dto: I'm working on a way to make it easy to get everything you need quickly. 13:57:28 what do you mean? 13:58:24 dto: I mean grabbing CL libraries and their CL library dependencies. 13:58:35 won't help as much with foreign library dependencies...though I should probably work on that, too. 13:58:53 LiamH: do you have ccl running? 13:59:12 leo2007: yes! in clbuild! Just got it running 13:59:19 parolang [~user@64.246.121.114] has joined #lisp 13:59:38 leo2007: Now working through oddities in loading my "usual systems" 13:59:55 leo2007: it doesn't like clsql-uffi 14:00:49 LiamH: i see. I am seeing 'unhandled exceptions' all the time with multi-roots. 14:01:03 actually clsql-sqlite3: ASDF could not load clsql-sqlite3 because There is no package named "NIL" .. 14:01:20 Oh well, easy enough to comment out and move on for now 14:02:00 LiamH: which lisp implementation is most tested for gsll? 14:02:17 leo2007: SBCL, without a doubt 14:02:49 this is the first time of tried it on CCL in a long time 14:02:56 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 14:03:03 LiamH: I am thinking about moving to SBCL. 14:03:18 leo2007: what have you been using? 14:03:28 I can hardly do anywork of lisp crashes all the time. 14:04:13 LiamH: CCL. I was using SBCL a year ago but there was some problem with multi-threading on osx so I moved to CCL. 14:05:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:08 asarch [~asarch@187.132.136.54] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 LiamH: do you think you will be able to look at the 'unhandled exceptions' today? 14:06:33 maybe 14:08:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:51 well I'm able to get the same error you do anyway, on "Version 1.6-dev-r13829M-trunk (LinuxX8664)" 14:10:15 LiamH: that's great! that's halfway to fix ;) 14:10:32 Hmm. When you re-issue sh make.sh in for a sbcl build, it seems it want to start from fresh. is there a way to tell it to continue where it bombed off? 14:10:55 leo2007: more like (/ (1+ x)) of the way to a fix, where x is unknown 14:11:51 LiamH: it didn't occur in SBCL right? 14:11:55 no 14:12:35 LiamH: I just do the testing on a single-threaded sbcl and get this: TOTAL: 4043 assertions passed, 25 failed, 0 execution errors. 14:12:51 that's impressive. 14:13:03 OK weird. If I do (lisp-unit:run-tests mathieu) once, it runs fine. If I do it a second time, it crashes CCL. 14:13:19 leo2007: When I run in SBCL I get 2 failed tests. 14:15:52 -!- aw [~aw@w4179.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 14:16:09 LiamH: i wonder if some failures are dependent on the machine. Some failures I see are true failures See: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225679 14:16:44 leo2007: In a lot of cases, I think the epsilons aren't right. 14:17:14 LiamH: line 46 is a true failure. 14:17:16 leo2007: meaning not portable 14:17:34 yeah I see it too 14:21:10 fiveop [~fiveop@g229113246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:59 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:23:07 Xach: do you know if asdf2 is in sbcl? 14:23:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:23:37 leo2007: I know it is not, unless it was committed recently. 14:26:55 Xach: You're right. it is not. thanks. 14:29:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152199028.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:57 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:52 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 14:32:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:32:54 LiamH: using sbcl 1.0.34 I got: TOTAL: 3445 assertions passed, 19 failed, 7 execution errors. 14:33:30 leo2007: seems bad 14:33:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:09 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:45 this time sbcl with threads. 14:37:52 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:02 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:40:19 zeugma [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 14:40:27 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:35 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:40:40 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111078.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:41:01 LiamH: which version of sbcl are you using? 14:42:00 I've been thinking of buying LOL, has anyone read it? 14:43:15 unfortunately not 14:43:20 at least not me 14:44:27 amazon's reviews don't sway me one way or the other - but its being a newer lisp book intrigues me. 14:44:40 zeugma: I got a pretty bad first impression from the early chapters. I think it might have value if you have the context to decide for yourself if the ideas promoted are good or bad. 14:44:50 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:54 zeugma: I don't think it would be a good first CL book. 14:45:06 G'morning all. 14:45:53 Xach: what didn't you like about the book? Was it the topics or the treatment, or something else? 14:47:02 zeugma: Contrarian views on special variable management, broad declarations of superiority, bugs in examples 14:47:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:47:26 I've read Object Oriented Common Lisp by Stephen Slade, but that was years and years ago, and I remember thinking the starting chapters were pretty good, but that the later chapters seemed aimless. 14:47:30 hah - so a little of both. 14:49:16 I'd wanted to get back into lisp, and have slowly been tinkering over the last few weeks, but thought a good book might galvenize my efforts. So in that case, does anybody have any recommendations? I'm a professional programmer, if that informs your recommendation helpfully. 14:49:34 minion: please tell zeugma about PCL 14:49:35 zeugma: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:49:50 zeugma: I really like Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming. Sonya Keene's CLOS book is nice. 14:52:14 I'd peeked through PCL, but it couldn't keep my attention - I might try PAIP then. (I notice that nobody is recommending PG's books.) 14:53:32 I'll second that. PCL first and then Keene's book is a good start. I've not read PAIP, but after those I would also recommend CLTL2. I would especially take it easy with Grahams books (I read those first and I consider that a huge mistake) and read them when you have some experience. 14:54:20 zeugma: ANSI Common Lisp is in the same category as LOL - helpful to read when you can separate the good ideas from the bad ones. Paul Graham doesn't like Common Lisp, and skimps on explaining many useful features. 14:56:19 ... like keyword arguments? 14:56:35 Xach: that really is most helpful, I simply don't have the experience to have any meaningful opnions about lisp texts, so I appreciate your insights. 14:56:35 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-227.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 14:56:56 If I want to re-use the constructor of a superclass, is change-class the way? 14:57:11 change-class is -never- the way. 14:57:37 how best to address this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225691? 14:57:44 initialize-instance, reinitialize-class ? 14:58:30 zeugma: I really like Common Lisp, so take it with whatever grain of salt that requires. 14:58:39 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.132.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:58:47 Lisp is best viewed as a series of expedient hacks upon a simple foundation. 14:58:49 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:53 sepult: I don't have those functions in sbcl? 14:59:02 hypno: there's slam.sh, if you build (the target) with after-xc-core or some feature like that. But, generally, no. It's hard to automatically determine the dependencies, with the amount of state involved in building SBCL. 14:59:09 leo2007: Have an apropos for them. 14:59:15 Understanding why those hacks are useful is worthwhile. 14:59:19 (They're probably in sb-mop.) 14:59:34 But you should also remember that that's what they are. :) 15:01:14 pkhuong: ok, thanks. i'm just gonna have to ride it out. building sbcl on a 300mhz sparc gets old pretty quick, heh. 15:01:33 300mhz sparc! 15:01:49 in my day, we would walk uphill in the snow both ways for a 300MHz sparc 15:01:56 if you really mean millihertz, as you were :-) 15:02:04 hehe 15:02:05 Xof: barefoot! 15:03:13 sepult: I can't see a way of using those functions to address the problem i want to address. 15:03:14 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:04:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.80.179] has joined #lisp 15:04:09 have a look at clos and mop on the hpyerspec, and consult your manuals of sbcl 15:05:21 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:41 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:27 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:10:48 is trivial-features dead or what ? 15:10:54 darcs hangs 15:11:15 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.80.179] has left #lisp 15:11:48 works for me. 15:11:55 http://src.quicklisp.org/trivial-features.tgz has a recent copy... 15:12:42 summersault [~george@189.107.218.149] has joined #lisp 15:14:21 cliki.net should have a link to a tarball as well 15:14:33 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nvkcfaaifismrvin] has joined #lisp 15:18:01 george__ [~george@189.107.195.195] has joined #lisp 15:18:57 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.218.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:19:49 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:22:13 minion: paste 111458? 15:22:13 Paste number 111458: "Doesn't survive make-target-2, but this is progress..." by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/111458 15:22:50 nyef: what are you cooking? 15:22:50 This is from my "afternoon hack" that I started on Sunday. 15:23:14 stassats: Have a look at the *features* list. 15:23:20 Third line, at th end. 15:23:42 is there an overview somewhere of what quicklisp.org is and what problems it is solving? 15:23:51 ryepup: No. 15:24:01 nyef: :ppc? 15:24:04 Yup. 15:24:19 very cool 15:24:20 ryepup: I can answer questions about it, though. 15:24:34 nyef: it had no threads on linux? 15:24:45 I was just curious, really, nothing specific 15:24:46 stassats: SBCL/PPC -never- had threads. 15:25:01 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:25:05 mostly a versioned source mirror? 15:25:10 oh, i see 15:25:18 ryepup: It's a project I'm working on that aims to make it easy to get clbuild-like library availability on more platforms and with less setup. 15:25:31 Xach: nice 15:26:53 I have Big Ideas for things in addition to that, but that's the core for now. 15:26:59 Still, only two days in and it's spawning threads. 15:27:21 I may be at about 400% of my original time estimate, but this isn't horrible. 15:27:28 nyef: Does that work on an xbox 360? 15:27:45 Xach: I don't know. Do you have one to try it on? 15:27:51 ryepup: Want to try a small demo? 15:27:52 nyef: Seen Dmitry Kalyanov's work on W32 threads? 15:27:55 nyef: No. 15:28:01 Xach: sure 15:28:14 redline6561: I've seen the fact of it, but have been too buried in my own threading project to look at it in detail. 15:28:21 Xach: me too 15:28:33 nyef: That makes sense. I'm just glad to see it's getting attention. Go SBCL hackers and all that. :) 15:29:11 nyef: Assuming your work and Dmitry's gets in the next release or so, what platforms would still be without threads? 15:29:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:29:52 ppc/non-linux, anything non-x86oid and non-ppc. 15:30:30 Got it. Thanks/. 15:30:38 Fixing threading up for other ppc targets would be easyish, fixing threading up for other CPUs wouldn't be. 15:30:53 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:30:56 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.91.63] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:30:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:05 (Largely because the first step is switching them over to gencgc.) 15:31:37 carlocci [~nes@93.37.205.25] has joined #lisp 15:31:47 -!- copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has quit [] 15:32:00 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 nyef: how much work do you estimate SBCL/arm w/ threads would require? 15:32:50 p_l: Quite a bit, given that the compiler backend hasn't been finished yet. 15:34:05 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.23.80] has joined #lisp 15:34:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:24 hmm... now I've got a really weird question. Anyone knows what could be the licensing terms of the font used in Symbolics logo? xD 15:43:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:47 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:31 Okay, what I have so far is up at http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ppc-threads but it still doesn't survive make-target-2, nor have I checked to make sure I didn't break other stuff over the course of the commit series. 15:49:44 Guest92039 [~root@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:00 stres [~oglk12@78-105-250-53.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:50:51 hello i have a list of filter functions that work on byte vectors in a way that the output of one function is input to the following one 15:51:20 if i want these functions to be able to add new functions in the filter chain how would i go about doing that 15:51:35 i'd like to use (dolist (f functions) ... but functions is evaluated once 15:52:15 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:54:03 it's possible to do, but why one would want to? 15:54:16 i want to have this functionality 15:54:26 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:45 am i missing something obvious ? 15:54:48 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:32 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:56:16 it's too complicated 15:56:22 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 15:56:38 stres: So, essentially equivalent to chaining functions together with queues. 15:56:48 benny` [~user@i577A1153.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:03 Zhivago: talk to me stres is friend of mine 15:57:24 eh 15:57:26 i mean here 15:59:25 *stassats* thinks something about personality disorders 15:59:27 stres: Please adjust your medication. 15:59:33 -!- benny [~user@i577A862B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:01:40 Deltaf1re [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:02:02 amaron_ [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 morning 16:02:27 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@sf-ogame.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- Deltafire [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- koning_r1bot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:27 -!- dlandau [dlandau@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:02:33 christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:54 _8david [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:58 dlandau [dlandau@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 16:04:38 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:04:45 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:05:09 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:05:45 oat [oat@CPE00222d7e5162-CM00222d7e515e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:15 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 16:06:58 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:59 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:27 rread [~rread@nat/sun/session] has joined #lisp 16:07:46 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:08 ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:29 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 16:08:43 http://paste.lisp.org/+2E05 16:08:51 What's wrong with it? 16:09:37 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/session] has quit [Changing host] 16:09:38 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-fcfrqpoovsvvbwgf] has joined #lisp 16:09:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10:21 it's ancient. git-clone it: http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/installation.html#download 16:12:14 to be fair, the git repo has 4 new commits since ;) 16:12:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:13:17 adeht, yep, it works from git. Thank you. 16:18:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:19:53 hmm... so clbuild is now using the dwim/slime? clbuild/source/hu.dwim.slime/swank-loader.lisp 16:20:41 ? 16:20:49 oh, it's in wnpp 16:21:53 installing the wnpp projects overwrites swank.lisp :( 16:21:59 swank.asd that is 16:22:38 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-102.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:57 Brucio-12 [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 -!- Brucio-12 is now known as beirc 16:23:07 -!- beirc is now known as beslyrus 16:23:13 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-133-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-227.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:25:52 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26:12 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:27:20 clem and ch-image are winners! 16:27:42 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:27:58 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:28:36 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:32 f2cl is a loser :( 16:33:11 -!- laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9a43.ucd.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:36 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:07 -!- zeugma [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:34:32 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:34:44 Xach: what did they win? 16:34:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:07 beslyrus: the Buildable Without Too Much Trouble award 16:35:23 it was a long time coming :) 16:35:38 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.1a2pre/20100614213315]] 16:36:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:05 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-hgrdcusulpolvrka] has joined #lisp 16:37:52 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:37:53 Xach: you should try cmn 16:38:15 What's that? (google fails me) 16:38:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nvkcfaaifismrvin] has left #lisp 16:39:22 Common Music Notation? 16:39:47 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:14 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:22 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:26 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 16:42:50 *Xach* likes any software that includes COPY-SLURS 16:43:09 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-48-110.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:45:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-hgrdcusulpolvrka] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:47:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:49 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:26 any idea why the first assertion failed in SBCL but succeeded in CCL http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225728? 16:49:48 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:50:18 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.195.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:50:23 when I specified a correct algorithm like in this call: (make-solver 'gsl::rosenbrock #M(-10d0 -5d0) +gnewton-mfdfsolver+ 'gsl::rosenbrock-df 'gsl::rosenbrock-fdf) 16:50:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:48 ... What's the value of +gnewton-mfdfsolver+? 16:53:03 the sldb buffer looks like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225730 16:53:18 (And WTF? Where's the clickable hyperspec links for things like MEMBER?) 16:53:19 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 leo2007: that is nyef's way of asking why you use something other than paste.lisp.org for common lisp code. 16:53:56 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:54:01 nyef: the value looks like this #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFF44D92A0) 16:54:05 Ah. 16:54:15 nyef: sorry. 16:54:33 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-48-110.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:37 What's the default test for MEMBER, EQL? 16:54:40 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:57 nyef: I also used :test #'equal to get the same 16:55:14 SAPs don't compare well under some predicates, and the compiler is downright gleeful about unboxing and reboxing them. 16:55:20 How about test #'sap= ? 16:55:34 (Well, sb-sys:sap= ?) 16:55:44 Xach: Is there any change lisppaste's xml-rpc service will be restored :( 16:55:57 leo2007: I don't know. 16:56:27 -!- m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:28 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 nyef: that worked. What's the problem? 16:56:50 hi 16:57:00 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@ma352.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:08 leo2007: SAPs are boxed objects that don't compare properly under EQUAL, apparently. 16:57:42 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:57:56 Is there a way I can write the ASSERT without using this knowledge of SBCL? 16:58:11 so that it works on all common lisps 16:58:30 Sure! All you have to do is not use SAPs as your algorithm objects. 16:58:41 leo2007: sure: write it 16:58:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:13 nyef: that's not under my control. they are from GSLL 16:59:16 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:33 STBY, then. 17:00:09 Alternately, pass the -name- of the algorithm and resolve it to its value after the assert. 17:00:24 minion: STBY? 17:00:24 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``STBY''. 17:00:34 Sucks To Be You. 17:00:40 minion: What does stby mean? 17:00:40 Sapo Tiltyard Basophilous Yojan 17:01:05 nyef: thanks for help. 17:01:36 No problem. Good luck with whatever it is you're doing. 17:02:16 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 17:05:38 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:44 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:11:06 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:42 wasn't there the specbot in here? 17:14:10 Yes, there was. 17:14:23 Give me a couple minutes and I'll try to bring it back. 17:15:02 ok thank you 17:16:15 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:30 good, thank you nyef 17:16:32 ppc eieio 17:16:32 Enforce In-Order Execution of I/O: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/eieio.htm#idx390 17:16:37 No problem. 17:16:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:52 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 -!- revel0__ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:19:34 knobo [~user@ti100710a080-0134.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:20:33 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:21:37 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 17:22:32 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-48-110.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:25:08 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:25:54 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-130-170.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:30:10 abugosh [~Adium@m485a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m485a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:55 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.23.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:07 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-255-176.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:37:32 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:38:15 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.145.236] has joined #lisp 17:38:39 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:39:04 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-74-49.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 I compiled sbcl from /tmp/ but it is now installed in ~/sbcl and slime can't find its source. it still tries to find for example /tmp/sbcl-1.0.39/src/code/target-sap.lisp 17:47:44 <_3b> leo2007: might need to adjust (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") 17:47:47 leo2007: setup translations for logical host "SUS" 17:47:51 SYS 17:47:54 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:13 leo2007: (push '("sys:src;**;*.*.*" "/home/leo/sbcl/src/**/*.*") (logical-pathname-translations "sys")) 17:52:36 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:54:21 the problem seems a bit complicated. I only have 500m on that machine so I only have whatever was installed by 'sh install.sh' 17:55:06 Do you have the source somewhere? 17:55:17 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 17:56:15 is there a letrec like thing in CL? 17:56:16 Xach: yeah, i did a sym-link instead. 17:56:36 Blkt: what does letrec do? 17:56:39 Blkt: labels 17:57:15 Xach: allows function and variable definition 17:57:43 Xach: allows recursive function and variable definition inside a define in Scheme 17:58:06 nothing in cl binds both functions and variables in the same set. 17:58:15 let allows function definition too if the function defined is not recursive 18:00:34 should I use PROCLAIM or DECLAIM? 18:01:10 basically I want the whole project to use (debug 3) 18:02:49 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:03:19 use declaim in every file 18:03:20 Blkt: common lisp is a lisp-2, so using let to define functions is really binding closures to variables 18:03:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:59 Blkt: and no, there is no let-rec for variables in common lisp. labels does it for functions 18:04:57 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:03 Blkt: what's the result of (let-rec ((a (+ 1 b)) (b (1+ a))) (list a b)) in scheme? 18:05:13 stassats: why not proclaim? I am trying to see their differences. 18:05:37 leo2007: proclaim is a function, it won't have effect when compiling a file 18:05:58 leo2007: declaim is effectively proclaim with an eval-when around it 18:06:06 thanks 18:06:10 jp_larocque [jabber-irc@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:16 proclaim is basically something that shouldn't exist. 18:07:45 foom: not right, you can call proclaim before compiling a set of files, and that's very useful 18:08:04 pmd: is it more useful than calling declaim before compiling a set of files? 18:08:42 (defun compile-my-project (files) (proclaim ) (mapcar 'compile-file files)) 18:09:11 foom: yes, because that proclaim will only happen in run-time, instead of also when you compile `compile-my-project' 18:09:33 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:37 Does anyone know of a way to check, from within a macro, whether a symbol names a lexically-bound function given some environment? I can do the same for macros with MACRO-FUNCTION and COMPILER-MACRO-FUNCTION. 18:09:53 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-125.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:03 (Although I'm curious as to why COMPILER-MACRO-FUNCTION takes an environment. You can't lexically define a compiler macro, can you?) 18:10:06 well, declaim shouldn't exist either, there should only be declare. That'd solve that problem. :) 18:10:51 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:54 bah, whatever. :P 18:11:01 foom: `declare' has lexical scope, for which environments common lisp doesn't specify any introspection... but in general, i kind of agree 18:11:15 any idea how to resolve such a bug http://paste.lisp.org/display/111471 18:11:41 -!- stres [~oglk12@78-105-250-53.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 18:12:04 jp_larocque: common lisp doesn't have any environment inspection definitions, you'll have to check your lisp implementation 18:12:25 pmd: Except for the functions I named, correct? 18:12:51 MACRO-FUNCTION ... Determines whether symbol has a function definition as a macro in the specified environment. 18:13:27 leo2007: don't divide by zero? 18:13:56 jp_larocque: yes, those two area available, indeed... 18:14:02 Xach: the problem is I don't know where that happened 18:14:08 xan__ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:14:36 So it confuses me that there isn't something similar for lexically-bound functions. But I wanted to check with you folks before shrugging it off. 18:14:46 jp_larocque: i have (some of) your software in quicklisp! 18:15:11 Cool! I've been rather hermitish, so I'll have to take a look at what that is. :) 18:15:30 I haven't read my feeds in over a year. 18:15:34 jp_larocque: there are a bunch of definitions in cl that accept an environment, but somehow (i believe) that there was not agreement on how or if to access those envs 18:15:38 Now I have reddit to steal all my time. 18:15:51 quicklisp is not a real thing, yet, but when it is, jplware will be there. 18:16:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:16:39 I'm a little bit honored. 18:18:13 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-227.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:20:00 <_8david> beslyrus: hmm, I think it's a mistake that clbuild has hu.dwim.slime at all. I'll remove it. 18:20:18 <_8david> That wouldn't have happened with quicklisp! 18:20:39 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:16 varjag [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:22:47 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-13-12.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:22:52 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-230.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:23:30 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:12 <_8david> Xach: am I seeing it right that systems.txt is (almost) a drop-in replacement for clbuild/dependencies, except for the system/project distinction? I'm thinking that clbuild could just depend on quicklisp.org for this file. 18:27:27 _8david: almost 18:27:53 _8david: it's going to change slightly to be system-name project-name system-definition-file-name dependencies* 18:28:32 _8david: and yeah, i hope other software can re-use quicklisp metadata. i wouldn't use it just yet, though. 18:29:33 leo2007: The ccl fix for oct has been checked into cvs. 18:29:36 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082BE4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:05 rtoym: thank you. 18:30:25 _8david: i don't have nearly as many projects indexed, though. 18:30:38 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 18:30:59 rtoym: I just did a cvs up. 18:31:19 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:32:27 So far on the desk-check, one patch hunk is in the wrong commit. After 6/15 commits. That's not so bad. 18:32:45 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082CCA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:52 leo2007: I need to fix up the tests so that the tests can be run. I only have a defsystem for the tests; no asd. But all of the main tests pass with ccl (32 bit). Some of the branch-cut tests fail, though. Need to investigate that. 18:34:57 rtoym: are you able to kill the debian/f2cl.asd file? (i can add some workaround if you can't) 18:37:45 _8david: i did use clbuild/dependencies as a reference, but i mostly picked up the "big" projects or projects i otherwise recognized. can you suggest things I missed that are important to you? 18:37:59 *Xach* makes a diff to make it easier 18:39:29 rtoym: thanks though I haven't run the tests yet. 18:39:46 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-100-146-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:49 -!- christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:55 Hey, cool, I just improved the runtime of a contrived benchmark of my COMPOSE implementation from 13.4 seconds to 1.9 by using a compiler macro. 18:40:12 *Xach* wants to use compiler macros more 18:40:43 is there a function in CL that creates a (also infinite) list of repeated elements? 18:41:03 And apparently MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL here isn't any slower than (func arg). 18:41:12 When compiler macros help, they're very helpful... But they're not as applicable as something like an SBCL DEFTRANSFORM. 18:41:24 Blkt: #n# and #n= can help with that. 18:41:34 christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:34 Blkt: see topic 18:42:14 Blkt: there isn't a built-in function to do the equivalent, though. 18:42:30 nconc? 18:42:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:43:23 Xach: thanks 18:44:25 nyef: hmm, that hadn't occurred to me. good call. 18:45:01 Copy the input list first if it's a literal or should otherwise be preserved. 18:46:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:23 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please] 18:50:56 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:38 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:53:19 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:12 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:17 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-133-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:55:35 aw [~aw@89.204.137.113] has joined #lisp 18:58:46 ... Second issue, I completely missed a trick in the implementation of binding. I can use lwz instead of lwzx for hitting up the free tls index. 18:59:07 Saves two instructions (both register loads). 18:59:41 For that matter, there are macros for this. 18:59:42 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 19:08:29 -!- aw [~aw@89.204.137.113] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 19:08:38 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:57 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:52 cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 19:13:13 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 19:14:26 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-48-110.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:34 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:17 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-51-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 19:30:18 <_8david> Xach: good question. hu.dwim would benefit tremendously from easy installability. Personally I would also love to see hemlock (the .tty.asd obviously, not the c++-dependency-infected .qt.asd), but except for Nikodemus and me few people care about that at the moment, I think. 19:30:22 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111034085.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:55 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152232064.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:48 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:11 I tried to get hu.dwim going for quicklisp, but the reliance on forked, divergent versions of upstream things made me give up on it as a low-hanging fruit. 19:33:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:34:18 Maybe there are some bits I can use with less hassle than others. 19:34:19 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 <_8david> Personally I have experience only with perec and its dependency, but none with the web stuff. ISTR that it worked relatively well to just ignore the forked stuff. Admittedly "relatively well" isn't good enough for a plug&play installation system. 19:35:54 <_8david> Of course, I use a forked version of perec anyway... :-) 19:36:14 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:05 Maybe that was my problem, eating the whole hungarian enchilada 19:37:38 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:56 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 Xach: Yeah, I can kill debian/f2cl.asd. But let me check the logs to see who added it. There must have been some reason. 19:39:42 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 Greetings lispers 19:40:03 kmr added it, 7ish years ago. 19:40:18 *Xach* is still getting used to 2010 being half over 19:40:40 Xach: I guess I can kill it; I won't miss it since I"m not a debian user. 19:40:51 Does kmr show up here anymore? 19:40:55 *rme* is trying to get used to life being half over. 19:41:04 tmh: hello, haven't seen you for a long time. 19:41:17 Hmm, I just pasted on paste.lisp.org and it doesn't seem to be showing up. 19:41:26 tmh: Yeah, the bot is devoiced. 19:41:49 leo2007: I've been a little busy. Physically moving, I'm switching from RHEL to Win7 and other things. 19:42:02 Okay, a build without threads actually completes, so it's definitely something threading-related and not other runtime damage. 19:42:09 leo2007: Plus, consulting is keeping me very busy, no complaints, though. 19:42:16 nyef: that sounds like progress! 19:42:42 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.117] has joined #lisp 19:42:45 slyrus_: It's a little bit of progress. It still doesn't survive compiling PCL, though. 19:42:54 (Well, the threaded version doesn't.) 19:42:58 Ok, I'm shadowing LENGTH, but I'm generally very uneasy about shadowing symbols in the Common Lisp package. http://paste.lisp.org/display/111475 19:43:24 *Xach* is never uneasy about such things! 19:43:31 tmh: Did you just say that you're going to be our dedicated SBCL/Win32 hacker? 19:43:54 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:04 I have a good reasong to shadow LENGTH, I've just never shadowed something before and am paranoid. 19:44:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:51 nyef: Once the workstation is up and running, I'll help where I can. I'm also moving towards LispWorks, though, because I need to generate pretty GUI's for clients. 19:45:25 graphic-forms or whatever it was not good enough? 19:45:33 (Alternately, hey, CLIM?) 19:46:23 nyef: No to CLIM. Haven't played with graphic-forms enough to know, but it looked a bit stale and I didn't feel like having to hack on it in addition to my program. 19:46:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152232064.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:39 -!- cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has left #lisp 19:46:50 Fair enough. 19:47:06 nyef: I spent some effort looking at graphic-forms early on and just wasn't confident I could swing it. 19:47:21 tmh: why win7? 19:47:32 slyrus_: Care to desk-check my commit series to see if you can spot any problems? 19:47:34 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152232064.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:42 nyef: I would really like to get a 64bit version of SBCL running on winders, I need to be able to use lots of memory. 19:48:06 leo2007: Clients, all of them, use winders. I aim to please. :-) 19:48:46 i see. windows suits well "worse is better" 19:48:50 tmh: Should be possible. I can advise in the doing, but without a win64 target of my own I can't do much of the hacking. 19:49:56 nyef: Ok. I downloaded and installed the free Win7 SDK, it comes with a C/C++ compiler and crude development tools. I think that is the toolchain that the winders version of SBCL should rely on. Haven't looked at the SBCL source enough on winders to know if that is what it relies on. 19:50:56 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 19:50:57 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 19:50:58 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 19:51:06 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 19:51:39 Xach: I can remove that file, but I'm not sure what effect that will have for debian. I'm not inclined to randomly remove kmr's checkins. 19:52:09 Has anyone looked at my shadowing LENGTH paste? It's pretty straightforward and simple, I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. 19:53:21 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 rtoym: I'll ask him. 19:54:00 tmh: I have toyed with the idea of using the MS toolchain for ccl, but as far as I can tell, that would require me to rewrite miles of assembly-language code. I imagine sbcl would face a similar problem. 19:54:03 tmh: You're not missing anything. 19:54:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-253-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:58 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:06 monra [~monra@147.52.194.125] has joined #lisp 19:55:11 rme: Actually, the similar problem it faces involves GCC-TLS on x86-64 targets (FreeBSD). 19:55:43 rme: I think sbcl only has ~500 lines of assembly per platform 19:55:43 (I already did and tested the rewrite for x86-64 on all other targets.) 19:55:45 rme: Thanks, I'm totally ignorant of the details of the build. What toolchain do you use then? 19:56:43 -!- monra [~monra@147.52.194.125] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:59 Xach: Ok. If he doesn't respond in a reasonable time, let me know and then I'll remove it. 19:57:03 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA958A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:25 LiamH: I am getting this error and don't know how to debug: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111471. 19:57:41 tmh: bundle a linux VM? (: 19:57:51 That 500 lines is for code not run through SBCL's own assembler, and is correct to within a binary order of magnitude or so. 19:58:16 tmh: we use cygwin/mingw tools. http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/WindowsNotes 19:58:20 <_8david> didn't someone post to sbcl-devel about having ported to msvc? 19:58:23 leo2007: Can't get the source location from frame 13? 19:58:48 _8david: Yeah, they were planning to rewrite the assembler code to use nasm, and everyone was like "umm... no. 19:58:52 " 19:58:52 rtoym: actually, i think i'll add a workaround. it looks like it really is used in the debian/rules file. 19:59:21 Xach: Ok. 19:59:32 Which is what prompted me to rewrite x86-64-assem.S into src/assembly/x86-64/assem-rtns.lisp. 19:59:44 _8david: if hemlock had some way to be usable without control or meta (grmbl ipad grumble), I'd be all over itOC (: 19:59:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:13 "all over itOC" 20:00:44 mistyped from a desktop, sorry. 20:00:46 <_8david> haha, I was indeed thinking about how cool an iPad would be, but realized that my custom dvorak layout with two ctrl on the home row probably isn't going to fly 20:00:54 rme: My experience with msysgit, in particular the painful performance of the git bash shell, has given me a bad impression of mingw. 20:01:34 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-253-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:44 pkhuong: a likely story :-) 20:02:26 tmh: What got me thinking about it was that gdb was annoying me even more than usual, and I wondered whether MS's debuggers would be a better choice. But since I have never used MS's debuggers, I may be making unwarranted assumptions. 20:02:33 rtoym: that gets to the source: (fsolve-1 solver absolute-error max-iteration print-steps) 20:02:45 _8david: I think the layout might be fixable with a jailbreak (hack the driver's .plist layout description). The problem is that I can't find any terminal (steve-approved or not) that reads control and meta. 20:03:40 rme: Well, I'm totally ignorant of all, so I could be the control. :-) 20:03:48 leo2007: Can't just look at the args and figure out from that why fsolve-1 is getting a divide by zero error? 20:04:02 Heh. I ended up writing my own hack against the windows debug API when I was trying to get SBCL working. 20:04:52 george__ [~george@189.107.153.194] has joined #lisp 20:05:28 rtoym: I am solving non-linear equations it could be due to the Jacobian function I'll check that a bit later. fsolve-1 (http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225819) doesn't have any division. 20:05:45 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:15 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:07:09 leo2007: Good luck. Did you know maxima can numerically solve non-linear equations? And can compute the analytical jacobian in many cases? 20:07:28 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:00 <_8david> pkhuong: the very last comment on http://hackaday.com/2008/08/19/iphone-ssh-client-roundup/ summarizes the situation very well. 20:08:47 dysinger [~dysinger@40.sub-75-228-64.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 *rme* notes that there are about 5000 lines of assembly in the ccl runtime per platform. 20:09:14 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:09:49 _8david: iSSH is much better now. 20:09:59 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-41-13.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10:40 rtoym: I have maxima installed almost always in any computer I use since 2002 but never seriously tried it. Is it possible to use those functions from common lisp? 20:10:57 nyef: So, does SBCL use the mingw toolchain? 20:11:17 <_8david> pkhuong: BTW, I'm surprised that nobody has blogged about the win32 threads yet. I would, but even though I looked through the commits, tried (and liked) it, I don't understand the details well enough to write a competent review. The safepoint stuff seems like the most significant change to me. 20:11:20 <_8david> Can you tell how ready it is for integration into upstream SBCL? 20:11:23 rtoym: the Jacobian is a bit tricky to get right manually. 20:11:49 _8david: I don't use windows, but the kinks re FFI, blocking and interrupts seem to have been thought out correctly. 20:11:53 leo2007: Sort of. One non-linear solver is a translation via f2cl of minpack. f2cl includes a translation of minpack, so you could use it directly from Lisp if you like. 20:12:19 that's the only section I can review. 20:12:45 rtoym: fsolve-1 uses GSLL which is also from minpack. 20:13:10 _8david: I am blogging about things that happened six weeks ago! 20:13:19 leo2007: Oh, ok. 20:13:49 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:57 rtoym: the first paragraph says this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225826 20:14:30 I assume nyef doesn't like the overhead on foreign calls. 20:14:39 _8david: somebody blogged, in russian 20:14:48 rtoym: I'd love to have a way to derive the Jacobian automatically. Suggestions? 20:14:52 Oh, blistering barnacles! After a mere 10 hours I've built a fresh new SBCL for Solaris 9/Sparc, with SBCL 0.9.9 no less, heh. 20:15:04 ost`: ... the author, amazingly enough. 20:15:18 ha 20:15:39 hypno: good to know that's still working 20:15:52 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:16:25 leo2007: Use maxima to compute the jacobian? There used to be (Fortran) code for automatic differentiation, but I've never used that and don't remember what it was called. 20:16:30 pkhuong: limits.h in runtime.c was missing tho. and the use of "-u" for the command id in the install script is a no go for solaris 9 at least. 20:17:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:17:04 hypno: can you send an email? 20:17:12 However, the boot time is reduced by several orders of magnitude. Very snappy boot now, even on this old hardware. 20:17:25 george_ [~george@189.107.146.24] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.153.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:18:11 pkhuong: Um, to sbcl-devel or what do you mean? 20:18:26 right, -devel (or on launchpad) 20:19:02 launchpad is some web interface? is that easier? 20:19:16 it's on the web, but I think you have to register. 20:19:21 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 nyef: Ok, I've downloaded the SBCL 1.0.39 source archive and will look through it. 20:20:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:22 ok. probably easier to just use sbcl-devel then. but sure, i can do that. perhaps i should run some test cases, etc before too? 20:20:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 20:21:03 hypno: if you have the hours to spare ;) 20:21:11 rtoym: thanks very much for your input. Last time I tried that the result was overly complicated. 20:21:35 And there it is in INSTALL, '2.5 Supported platforms', GNU toolchain. 20:22:59 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096716584.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 20:23:00 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 20:23:08 <_8david> anyway, here is proof that Dmitry's binary works: http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/slave-thread-win32.png 20:23:24 _8david: and it self builds again with tests and everything? 20:23:40 <_8david> pkhuong: no, but I'm planning to try that sometime soon 20:25:05 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209.234.77.8] has joined #lisp 20:25:45 Dammit! Now I've been sucked into the rabbit hole that is SBCL on Winders. Too. Much. To. Do. 20:26:22 is there a clozure cl internals document? 20:27:15 leo2007: Did you try to get maxima to simplify the result? That might help. I've also noticed that the form that maxima returns is not necessarily the best way to compute it. You might have to/want to massage it for better numerical results. 20:29:38 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:47 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:33 Fade: There's chapter 16 of the manual, which is reasonbly accurate. There are also some notes at http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/OpenMclInternals 20:31:10 thanks, rme 20:31:35 http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#Implementation-Details-of-CCL 20:32:38 do the details in that second doc still stand against CCL? 20:33:59 Fade: yes, I believe so. 20:34:07 okay. thanks you 20:34:13 -s 20:34:25 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.136.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-255-176.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:59 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-10-74.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 rtoym: I am installing maxima and 'make check' seems to have lots of failures using ccl64 on osx. 20:42:51 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45:37 dysinger_ [~dysinger@187.sub-75-255-126.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:23 ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:52 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:46:53 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@40.sub-75-228-64.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:53 -!- dysinger_ is now known as dysinger 20:46:56 -!- ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:52 nyef: If I start the epic work of getting a 64bit version of SBCL on winders that uses the MS toolchain, what's the best approach? Start with a local copy of 1.0.39, use git and send patches? 20:48:14 Best approach meaning actually getting something useful back to you guys. 20:48:30 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:07 leo2007: Hmm. There should be a few failures. But I've only used ccl 32-bit. 20:51:54 ccl 1.5 made *read-default-float-format* thread-local. maxima expects to be able to set it during the build with setq and have that persist in a saved image. 20:51:56 tmh: Use git, maintain a public repository somewhere. 20:52:37 tmh: You might find http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/no-x86oid-assem.S to be of use. 20:52:45 nyef: OK, thanks. 20:53:01 see http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2010-April/011513.html and the other messages in that thread. 20:53:04 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 20:53:43 dysinger_ [~dysinger@60.sub-75-233-146.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 -!- dysinger_ [~dysinger@60.sub-75-233-146.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:54 also http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2010-May/011540.html 20:54:45 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:13 nyef: Why should I use your fork over sbcl.git? 20:55:35 rtoym: here is a sample of 128 failures http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225843 20:56:07 tmh: That's more for if you want to use MSVC or something, that's the tree with the x86-64 assembler bits moved to sbcl's assembler instead of gnu as. 20:56:07 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.91.13.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:34 nyef: OK, thanks. I will use your fork, then. 20:56:34 and then it seems to hang at "Running tests in rtest_integrate: ^C", so I interrupt it. 20:56:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:53 Okay, I see "; compiling (DEFINE-COMPILER-MACRO FIND-CLASS ...)", a GC gets triggered, and then I get a stray (invalid) instance pointer instead of a TN. 20:56:53 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@187.sub-75-255-126.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:15 cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 leo2007: Some tests take quite a while. 20:59:00 -!- parolang [~user@64.246.121.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:01 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-36-81.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:14 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:02 lispm [~lispm@g224126237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:14 -!- varjag [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:03:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:18 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.117] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 21:04:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 given n and m, is there a quick syntax to generate a list of all numbers from n to m? 21:05:19 Haskell's n..m for those who know it 21:05:41 lists:seq(m,n( 21:05:47 hah 21:05:50 wrong channel 21:05:52 nm 21:06:24 no, there is no special built-in syntax for that 21:06:34 thanks 21:06:36 (loop for i from n to m collect i) 21:06:44 use something like LOOP to build lists 21:06:48 (loop for x from n to m collect x) 21:06:50 damn! 21:07:06 I knew that one, I was hoping for something shorter 21:07:09 ahahah 21:07:21 write it 21:07:26 fast coding contest 21:07:30 I'll try lispm 21:07:45 in Lisp that function is often called iota 21:08:37 (defun seq (m n) (loop for x from m to n collecting x)) 21:08:58 i would not call it seq 21:09:06 right 21:09:19 pnq [asdf@AC821136.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:25 (defun through (n m) ... 21:09:32 erlangy - its what comes to mind when I do ranged lists like that. 21:09:53 as i said in Lisp its IOTA 21:09:56 Blkt: http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2007-08/msg01182.html 21:09:57 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:57 often 21:10:03 why iota? 21:10:21 cbeok: Because it makes a big difference? 21:10:34 buh dump bump ping. 21:10:41 probably because that's the character in APL for it ;-) 21:10:56 guessing 21:10:57 thanks Deltaf1re 21:11:10  21:11:11 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:37 when can we start coding with unicode anyway? 21:11:45 ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 21:12:03 just use a Lisp with Unicode support 21:12:11 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:13:02 are there lisp readers out there than know unicode? can I have functions named with strings of unicode? 21:13:20 several can do that 21:13:27 wow cool. I had no idea. 21:13:43 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:14:10 ccl and sbcl both can 21:14:11 some Japanese Lispers wanted very early to program in Japanese 21:14:43 abcl should be able to do it. 21:14:53 cmucl, too 21:15:08 Lispworks, Allegro CL also 21:16:24 SCL as well. It's probably hard to find an implementation that do not support it, heh. 21:16:47 is it normal to get this error when meta-dotting "loop": "cond: Error: failed to find the WRITE-DATE of C:\cygwin\home\nikodemus\sbcl\src\CODE\LOOP.LISP: No such file or directory" 21:16:51 dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:16:51 ? 21:17:01 yeah - I mean, I use sbcl most of the time, sometimes clisp, but I've never looked into it. 21:18:36 Blkt: It's not entirely abnormal. For meta-dot to work you need to have the sbcl source unpacked somewhere and the SYS: pathname translation set up properly. 21:19:01 I see 21:19:03 thanks 21:21:20 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:22 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224126237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:12 Ah! I was right. There is something fishy with the hungarian slime and clbuild: > ./clbuild update --main-projects The following extra dependencies were found: cljl hu.dwim.slime lift include dependencies in update? (Y/n) 21:23:45 <_8david> slyrus__: please pull, I've just pushed the hu.dwim.slime removal. 21:24:05 Ok, thanks! 21:27:00 leo2007: What version of maxima are you using? Maxima cvs and ccl64 1.5 runs the testsuite just fine so far. (1 known error, so far but tests are finished yet.) 21:28:04 I use the released version of maxima 5.21.1 and ccl64 trunk. but it was on osx. How long for running the tests? 21:30:20 I'm running on osx too. Tests take 30 min? I can't remember and they're still running. 21:31:22 But your paste shows lots of errors in rtest14. I don't see any errors there. I will have to get maxima 5.21.1 and test this again. 21:32:36 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:07 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 21:33:42 _8david: is http://common-lisp.net/project/phemlock/ the project page for the hemlock stuff you're working on? 21:34:22 rtoym: the full terminal session looks like this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225851/ 21:35:47 leo2007: The testsuite took 500 sec, with exactly 1 failed tests. 21:35:58 Let me try 5.21.1.... 21:36:03 rtoym: that's amazing; 21:36:55 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:16 The 500 sec or the 1 failed test? (The failure is an issue with ccl.) If you look closely, there are quite a few tests that are known to fail and are not counted as an failure. 21:37:46 aw [~aw@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:55 rtoym: both. 21:40:03 hmm. is there a way to make the SWANK server bind only on an internally visible port? 21:40:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-59.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:40:37 (apart from blocking that port in iptables, ofcourse) 21:41:49 I see there's a :port option to create-server; but is there also :interface, or maybe the possibility to bind to a UNIX domain socket? 21:42:57 leo2007: The tests takes like 20 minutes on clisp. I think clisp and cmucl pass all the tests. 21:43:47 -!- cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has left #lisp 21:46:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:57 leo2007: I get a ton of failures with maxima 5.21.1 and ccl64. 21:49:22 rtoym: I am getting CVS. thanks for confirming this. 21:49:24 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:25 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 21:49:38 rtoym: whose fault by the way? 21:49:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:39 Not sure. I guess I can try 5.21.1 with cmucl. But I run maxima with cmucl quite often. I try ccl much less often. 21:51:22 Most of the failures appear to be numerical issues. 21:51:32 <_8david> Fade: not really. We've decided to hijack the cl.net project's mailing list, but the CVS is outdated. http://gitorious.org/hemlock/pages/Home is more recent. 21:51:55 -!- pnq [asdf@AC821136.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:01 rtoym: I have found not many people use ccl I mean we have quite a few problems with CCL in the past two days. 21:52:48 leo2007: are you running the bleeding edge all the time? 21:53:25 hypno: I was running ccl1.5 then upgraded to trunk yesterday. Not all the time. 21:54:06 leo2007: i've had very few problems with the releases at least. only under my S&M-bondage kind of stress tests have it given in for me... 21:54:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.145.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:02 abend [~alx@76.76.146.16] has joined #lisp 21:55:11 hypno: I remembered two packages were broken in CCL: SERIES and OCT but they were fixed quickly by rtoym. 21:55:42 hypno: gsll is still broken though. 21:56:23 laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has joined #lisp 21:56:27 ok. 21:56:38 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA958A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:57:14 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.145.236] has joined #lisp 21:57:51 ... 0xf7930048 is a bad value for a thread structure address, isn't it? 21:59:12 Fucking Solaris `ed`. seems to hang the tests.. :( 22:00:57 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 22:02:59 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.145.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:56 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 22:05:23 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:08:07 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:21 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:33 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:12:50 -!- christop` is now known as christoph_debian 22:13:01 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:13:09 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:17 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:13:50 where can I find information about the setup of SBCL sources in order to have Meta-. working right? 22:15:17 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:31 Blkt: Call (logical-pathname-translations "SYS"), then realize that it's an accessor. 22:15:32 -!- aw [~aw@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:32 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 22:15:47 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:08 aw [~aw@p57AA822E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:40 rtoym: maxima cvs tests runs fine ;) 22:18:53 rtoym: which front-end do you use? 22:20:00 I am seeing lots and lots of *** Undefined node `Category: Package distrib' in @ref (in ./distrib.texi l. 3159 in category) 22:20:34 leo2007: I just use shell mode in maxima. Too lazy to learn anything else because I don't really use maxima for anything except playing around. 22:20:54 Bleh. Okay, the odd 0x48 bytes is plausible, given THREAD_STATE_LOCK_SIZE. :-/ 22:21:21 leo2007: Is that from running make? 22:23:03 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:32 rtoym: make install 22:23:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:25:40 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 22:25:54 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:44 Ok, let me try that. 22:27:16 -!- laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:31 laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has joined #lisp 22:29:13 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:23 _Y00_H00_ [~taha@adsl196-105-217-217-196.adsl196-15.iam.net.ma] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:31 -!- laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:45 laynor [~user@109.77.56.34] has joined #lisp 22:35:44 lawfulfalafel [~kirbyseit@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 22:36:03 -!- lawfulfalafel [~kirbyseit@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:39:28 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:39:32 pnq [asdf@172.163.126.90] has joined #lisp 22:39:39 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:57 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:59 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:03 nyef: how do I permanently set logical-pathname-translations to the directories I want 22:41:04 ? 22:41:55 rtoym: after using slime superb fuzzy completion, it is very difficult to get used to maxima's. 22:42:49 Blkt: Either use save-lisp-and-die to produce a new core, or set the translation up in the system init file or ~/.sbclrc 22:42:51 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:03 nyef: got it, thank you 22:44:52 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:59 -!- _Y00_H00_ [~taha@adsl196-105-217-217-196.adsl196-15.iam.net.ma] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:45:22 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:53 _8david: hunchentoot depends on trivial-backtrace which is a wnpp-project and doesn't seem to get pulled 22:47:10 leo2007: Yes. There was a way to get slime to work with maxima. It was pretty nice when it worked. But it also seemed to crash maxima fairly often too. Haven't used that in years. 22:47:42 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:47:58 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:48:25 _8david: thanks 22:49:19 rtoym: the jacobian output from maxima is awesome. see this: http://imagebin.org/101478 22:49:53 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 22:50:46 slyrus__: oho! time to try quicklisp! 22:50:51 slyrus__: well, not really. but still... 22:50:58 first I need to fix my damn webserver... 22:52:44 leo2007: Cool, but I can't really read the new fangled fancy typeset display. :-) It looks like t with a subscript of -12. Is that right? 22:53:20 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:53:42 And is that a t_1 * R or t_(lR)? 22:53:50 rtoym: it was supposed to be $t_{12}$ in TeX. 22:54:08 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-253-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:54:53 *rtoym* thinks he'll stay with the plain old ascii 2D display with emacs. :-) Or maybe he should work some more on hooking up maxima with mcclim. 22:55:05 tessier_1 [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:26 Is that wxmaxima? 22:55:45 rtoym: I use maxima.el but the completion is not good. 22:56:01 -!- tessier_1 is now known as tessier___ 22:56:18 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-41-13.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please] 22:56:22 rtoym: No, I was going to use imaxima but it requires gs which is missing on my system. so I call the maxima command TeX to convert the output and preview it. 22:56:56 Ah, ok. 22:56:58 here's a online LaTeX previewer: http://www.tlhiv.org/ltxpreview/ 22:57:54 It seems the previewer is not doing a good job if that's how it displays $t_{12}$. 22:59:49 rtoym: I have the variable name t_12 in maxima and the function tex convert it wrongly. 23:00:08 Oh, a bug in maxima. 23:00:09 it would look better if I don't use _ 23:01:14 Yeah, I guess it's hard for maxima to tell how to convert that to TeX. 23:02:51 Ohhh. The new mac mini looks nice. 23:02:58 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:11 rtoym: yeah, removing _ gives this http://imagebin.org/101480 23:04:43 it automatically puts numbers in subscript. 23:05:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:07:13 rtoym: I think I have the setup to load the maxima image in lisp but last time I tried I didn't figure out how to call those maxima functions such as INTEGRATE in the lisp repl. 23:08:35 Not exactly sure, but I think it's (meval '(($integrate) $x $x 0 2)) for integrate(x,x,0,2). 23:09:07 Yeah, that works. 23:09:53 But, if I were you, I do it the other way. Use maxima's repl to call your Lisp functions. 23:11:10 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@cpc3-lewi4-0-0-cust744.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 23:14:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152232064.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:15:28 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152200103.a1.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:56 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:19:54 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 23:21:07 hi, is it possible to create an instance, but without running the initialize-instance after method? 23:21:28 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:22:07 perhaps you want allocate-instance 23:22:27 ignotus: Why do you want to do it? 23:22:34 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:48 adeht: looks fine, thanks! 23:23:42 redline6561: I would like to have some offline testing of hunchentoot pages, which need a global variable hunchentoot:*request* to be set, and I would like to create an instance of that *request* variable without hunchentoot initializing it to be a "real" request 23:24:38 ignotus: Ah. adeht's on the right track I think. Good luck. 23:25:02 Hmm, I'd like a terser word than "implementation" when referring to a CL implementation. any suggestions? 23:26:08 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-102-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:29 pkhuong: http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/ssbcl.txt 23:27:41 fe[nl]ix: any chance that make-static-vector could accept an :initial-contents argument? 23:27:46 after correcting the jacobian matrix (thanks to maxima), I am still seeing this DIVISION-BY-ZERO by error. 23:28:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152200103.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:02 I am seeing this http://paste.lisp.org/display/111471 error when using the +powells-hybrid+ algorithm. 23:29:45 pkhuong: good news is though that during the time SBCL was molested by the test-suite memory usage was pretty tight. real size was fluctuating between 25-45mb (up and down), and res-mem fluctuating too between 25-35. 23:31:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.86] has joined #lisp 23:33:57 Xach: vendor? platform? compiler? evaluator? version? 23:34:02 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:34:43 hmm 23:35:06 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 23:35:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:09 rtoym: do you if maxima can output to lisp so that i can copy it into my lisp source. 23:41:37 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:42:02 leo2007: in what way? 23:42:30 leo2007: you can compile Maxima with SBCL and have the whole SBCL available from inside maxima 23:44:31 p_l: ie instead of using the ascii output, use sexp. 23:44:57 1/a -> (/ 1 a) 23:45:00 etc. 23:47:10 leo2007: You can try to compile the function/file. This will produce a file with Lisp code. But to use it you basically have to have all of maxima available. And the compiler is known to be pretty buggy. 23:48:27 But I think it's possible to massage maxima's internal representation to Lisp. Sort of. So a*b is ((mtimes) $a $b) which could be translated to (* $a $b). 23:49:58 there's a mechanism for output translators 23:50:00 leo2007: Perhaps these maxima questions are a bit offtopic here. You could try #maxima. 23:50:41 *nyef* sighs. 23:50:57 But if you're going to use/work with maxima anyway, I'd write Lisp functions that can be called from maxima. 23:50:58 I'm pretty much out of ideas for tracking this bug down. 23:50:59 what's up nyef? 23:51:47 Even with the GC verifier turned up to max, I'm not getting anything useful. 23:52:09 nyef: what bug is it? 23:52:10 And I've desk-checked the commit series several times and the few problems are all minor stuff. 23:52:28 A bad pointer just after the first triggered GC in make-target-2. 23:53:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:26 Or maybe it's just not initialized properly. 23:53:31 Something like that. 23:53:50 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209.234.77.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:53:53 *madnificent* has no idea how one could debug something like that 23:54:10 nyef: there are tests for the GC, right? 23:54:14 rtoym: thanks. I mostly like to use GSLL for now since I am more familiar with it at the moment. 23:54:17 The pointer value is pretty stable, though. 23:54:43 Sortof. The GC has some internal checks it can run to make sure that its invariants aren't screwed up. 23:54:48 leo2007: You still can. Maxima is Lisp after all. 23:54:58 -!- xan__ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:56:26 nyef: but you can't build a virtual GC and make it do certain operations in order to see that it does what it's supposed to do? 23:57:09 Umm... What? 23:57:53 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-246859.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:58:18 nyef: I don't know how the GC is programmed. But if there'd be a way to make it run in a certain process separate from the current lisp, then it could've been possible to write tests for it (versus assertions) 23:59:12 That sounds like an awful lot of work for something that usually doesn't screw up. 23:59:31 nyef: as all testing systems: it's only fun when you need it 23:59:52 you may well be right though