00:01:24 derekv: http://github.com/neutronicus/Blades-of-Avernum-Editor-Remake 00:01:56 derkev: relevant files are parse-header-files.lisp 00:02:13 derekv: and parse-scendata.lisp 00:02:27 derekv: and parse-bas-format.lisp 00:04:38 Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 -!- Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:43 adamvh, got it, thanks. looks good 00:10:18 derekv: If you put a symlink to boa-editor.asd in ~/.sbcl/systems (if you're on sbcl) you should be able to (require 'boa-editor) 00:11:12 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:12:09 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-214-76.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:12:39 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:00 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-100-100.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:14:43 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2A956.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:46 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 00:19:01 how do i flatten a list (say '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) => '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) 00:19:36 alexandria:flatten is one way 00:20:35 looks good adamvh ... bbl 00:20:38 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:09 xach: is that the same alexandria that cffi depends on? 00:21:22 krzysz00: yes 00:23:45 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:10 krzysz00: how did you come to have this non-flat list? 00:24:43 structure internals 00:25:01 which *need* to be that way for one part of the code 00:25:34 and now can be flattened for a different algorighm (which is being rewritten due to being a big hog) 00:25:34 what do you want to happen if the input was ((1 (2 3)) (4 5))? 00:25:45 (1 2 3 4 5) 00:26:00 (wait ... that won't happen, there are gauranteed to be three lists 00:27:26 wait a minute ... not a working solution 00:28:35 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 forget i ever asked 00:40:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:42:18 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 00:45:55 -!- Martiini [~Miranda@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Martiini] 00:50:08 *Xach* needs an implementation of the #+/#- logic for feature expressions 00:51:12 krzysz00: If you're addressing a perf isue, it seems to me the first thing to do is to consider not using lists 00:52:20 jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has joined #lisp 00:53:45 -!- pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:56:55 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:57:06 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:57:59 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:59:06 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:34 jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has joined #lisp 01:04:52 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:02 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:09 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 01:13:09 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 01:13:09 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 01:18:10 pnq [asdf@ACA2A956.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:11 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 01:18:11 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 01:27:25 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:49 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please] 01:34:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:45:13 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:02 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 01:48:41 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:25 Hrm, the SACD machine is surprisingly elegant. 01:51:41 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:51:44 SECD, Iasisu 01:51:59 Yes, SECD. :-) 01:52:00 *I assume. 01:52:17 not particularly useful, though. 01:52:44 pkhuong: Because it doesn't support tail recursion? 01:53:19 no. There's aT 01:54:01 a TR SECd for that. Because I don't see how the simplicity is useful. 01:55:19 clisp interpreted is a little slow running chipz. 01:55:43 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:14 ... My hack-of-the-afternoon has run long. 01:57:20 And I've turned up a pile of stuff that Needs Fixing with respect to SBCL/PPC and again with respect to all cheneygc targets. 01:57:58 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-151-42.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:58:13 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-200.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:27 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:38 nyef: What's wrong with it? I thought cheneygc was pretty stable. 02:04:05 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:21 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:46 umm, is it just me, or is it actually impossible to output lines longer than 80 chars to an FD-STREAM in SBCL without doing strange things? 02:06:02 *mathrick* is looking at the hardcoded :LINE-LENGTH returning 80 02:07:20 while *PRINT-PRETTY* is in effect that is 02:07:23 dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:14 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 02:09:23 mathrick: Not just you. 02:09:23 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:09:38 mathrick: Fortunately, such strange things are fairly straightforward. 02:09:52 nyef: why doesn't it respect *PRINT-MISER-WIDTH* then? 02:10:12 I have no idea? Maybe it is just you. 02:10:21 nyef: I checked, and it's NIL here 02:10:23 Maybe it takes the least of the two values? 02:10:36 so according to ANSI it shouldn't have any miser width 02:10:45 no one probably really cares but fwiw, last night I was looking for help with hunchentoot 0.15.7 and not handling http posts. well I realized I had a copy of chunga 0.4.3 on a different remote machine. i grabbed that and used it instead of 1.1.0 or 1.1.1 and now http post appears to work fine. 02:10:52 quotemstr: It's more a matter of where some data is stored than anything else. 02:11:11 i guess in case someone comes in with a similar sounding problem in the future. 02:11:38 dulouz: that sounds like an incompatibility between 0.15.x and 1.x, HT was partially rewritten between these versions 02:11:50 mathrick: yep 02:12:01 that's a common trap for HT users 02:12:25 math: didn't realize chunga would cause problems though. i assumed it would just be providing some version independent stream stuff 02:13:00 once i get this project live, i'll probably look towards migrating to hunchentoot 1.x 02:13:30 because really, lisp+web = more fun than work 02:13:42 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:25 quotemstr: goddammit, I went back to working on UM now 02:14:53 I didn't think I could do anything less useful for my currently needed work; I was wrong 02:15:02 mathrick: And I read up on the SECD machine and other classic VM designs. :-P 02:15:09 :) 02:15:38 Well, I also constructed a fancy C++ iterator wrapper around lists-of-conses so that STL algorithms can work on them. 02:15:47 "Creeping elegance", I believe they call it. :-) 02:15:52 hehe 02:16:13 quotemstr: whatever you do, you want to be heavily self-modifying 02:17:07 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:17:10 quotemstr: it'd be also nice to incorporate one of those code mutators found in viruses 02:17:53 jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has joined #lisp 02:18:02 Heh, there comes a point of diminishing return in that area. 02:18:09 After all, someone can just watch your code execute in a VM. 02:18:14 presumably not in the resulting bytecode, but only in the machinery that produces it, to hamper analysis 02:18:34 quotemstr: that's why you don't want it in the resulting bytecode :) 02:19:14 ohhmama [~chatzilla@251-38-89.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #lisp 02:19:21 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:22 if your ISA relies on self-modifying code, and you employ a mutator on top of that, it makes it very hard to analyse because common operations are done very indirectly 02:19:45 and the mutator makes sure any kind of template-based disassembler doesn't catch on too quickly 02:20:13 it'd also make the same code look different between releases 02:20:15 does anyone have implemented a lisp in ocaml ? 02:20:34 ohhmama: that's a fitting TLD you have there :) 02:21:00 mathrick i dont understand can you elaborate ' 02:21:09 ohhmama: .cl, and CL == Common Lisp 02:21:09 what means tld ? 02:21:16 Top Level Domain 02:21:17 top level domain 02:21:24 Chile = .cl 02:21:33 ? 02:21:52 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:57 ohhmama: depends on what you mean by "lisp". If CL, I don't think so, but any kind of Lisp, I'd expect some to be around (not that I've seen any) 02:22:06 i have implemented something that feeels like lisp 02:22:29 http://www.no-spoon.de/2006/10/lisp-is-mentioned-in-practical-ocaml.html <-- tee hee 02:22:42 ohhmama: Why does it feel like lisp? 02:22:51 and a think is lisp (i mean the family, () lists) 02:23:01 http://sourceforge.net/projects/ocul/ 02:23:13 is lisp the language a programming language designer aprentice should implement ? 02:23:26 ohhmama: apprentices often do. 02:23:49 ohhmama: it's a good target, yes, but it's also recommended that the apprentice get a good understanding of what it means to be a lisp 02:24:00 ohhmama: It is a very simple language, so it is a good choice. 02:24:15 ML is a fine lispy language... and implementing an ML in ML is a fairly common exercise. 02:24:39 well yeah the prototipe i didt was lisp i was doing resulted in the same things i ve seen in other lisp examples 02:24:44 pkhuong: Metacircularly or directly? 02:24:48 the core (eval function) 02:27:26 my current bottle neck is how do i implment the namespace? i mean the place where you store the binds or variable names 02:27:35 right now i just use a list 02:27:41 and that sucks :) 02:28:30 ohhmama: you're not the first one to have that problem :) 02:29:02 ohhmama: Why does it suck? 02:29:10 do you have a lisp implementation ? we could exchange our programs ? 02:29:28 it works but, not the way it should 02:29:29 ohhmama: Using a simple list for the environment is a time-honored tradition. :) 02:29:44 the search of binds is O(n) 02:29:49 So? 02:29:52 ohhmama: there's a good body of literature on the subject, some of the keywords you might want to google are "deep binding" and "shallow binding" 02:29:55 ohhmama: There are two basic strategies -- deep binding and shallow binding. 02:29:58 O(N) for small N is very fast. 02:30:08 i have deep binding 02:30:47 ithe shallow binding is done copying the parameters in the global namespace, after done the function, recreate the old namespace 02:32:35 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:32:52 the funny thing is that im learning ocaml (ml) at the same time im learning lisp 02:33:13 the lisp part to my aprettiation is subjective 02:33:59 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 02:34:00 ohh and this has got me stalled the last week here it goes 02:34:44 you know the lisp has some basic functions predefined like eval (well eval is from another planet) but print, sum, +, fold and the others 02:35:04 should these be catched on the parsing phase or 02:35:18 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:35:22 should they be stored in the namespace and worked out by the type system ? 02:35:56 ohhmama: The question is -- can you shadow those? 02:35:59 right now i let the type system give the security to execute them 02:36:00 ohhmama: you can't always resolve them at parse time, due to functions being first class. 02:36:49 In CL, you cannot shadow + in the case of (funcall '+ 1 2 3) for example, so you could resolve that as early as you like. 02:36:57 correctme if im wrong but in clisp you cant define a var with setq from other level than the top 02:37:04 in my sytem i can 02:37:08 setq doesn't define variables. 02:37:19 and 02:37:19 does binds 02:37:33 and clisp is an implementation. 02:38:27 is there a way a can give you my program some day and you review my work ? 02:39:51 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@cpe-174-100-235-249.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:44:20 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:45:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:45:43 Just as a purely masochistic exercise, how would you implement lexical scope with shallow binding? 02:46:48 creating a new list of binds and copying the parameters and give those to a function, at exit recreate the old namespace 02:46:56 very inneficient 02:46:57 quotemstr: simple, lexical scope is resolved during the compilation :) 02:47:02 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:16 mathrick: Sssh, that's cheating. :-) 02:47:33 *mathrick* notes never to go into cryptoanalysis or reverse engineering 02:47:36 I suck at this 02:47:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:46 ohhmama: If I understand you correctly, all that gives you is dynamic scope. 02:48:01 that!! 02:48:37 im not english nativ, im struggling with the literature about lisp 02:49:19 ohhmama: For better or for worse, most CS literature is in English, and English is a crappy language. 02:49:33 too bad CS literature isn't in LISP 02:50:00 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:03 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:50:19 Let's use Latin. 02:50:29 Latin is an excellent Lisp. ;-) 02:50:38 (Actually, its more like ML...) 02:50:42 i have, for the longest time, suspected that's why latin lived for so long 02:51:33 it would seem to be much easier to translate latin into the vernacular, like so many programmers like to translate stuff into their favorite language (perl, python, ruby, etc.) 02:51:58 and that latin was a lisp -- once learned, no one bothered with the vernacular again 02:52:37 actually the literary latin was very different from what was spoken 02:52:42 (and likewise, no one bothered to translate _out_ of latin for their own direct benefit) 02:57:25 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-80-164.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:58:07 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:58:41 -!- duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has left #lisp 03:03:56 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:04:47 -!- ohhmama [~chatzilla@251-38-89.adsl.terra.cl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.19/2010031422]] 03:06:22 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:07:21 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:11 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:32 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:46 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.94] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:17:30 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:07 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:26 Right, I give up. This hack isn't happening tonight. 03:23:16 And the pending fixes and utter hacks are approaching toxic levels. 03:23:27 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:12 So I'm going to get some sleep that I might be able to make it work tomorrow. 03:24:18 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:25:56 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:27:09 asarch [~asarch@189.188.153.57] has joined #lisp 03:27:27 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:57 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 03:27:58 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:28:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:23 -!- dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:37 tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has joined #lisp 03:41:25 how's ASDF2 adoption coming along? Have CCL and SBCL adopted it? 03:41:47 sykopomp: It's in CCL's trunk, and will be in the next release. 03:42:15 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:36 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:51:25 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 03:52:00 -!- derekv [hkacn5bo7t@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:52:26 derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:32 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 03:55:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.7.101] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:20 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:00:35 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:57 jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has joined #lisp 04:07:49 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666ea7-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 04:10:17 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@74.81.170.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:46 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:24:59 was somebody working on an objc-bridge for sbcl a while back? 04:30:46 slyrus: there was some generic one based on CFFI, I think 04:30:59 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:42:19 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.153.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:01 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 04:45:43 accout list 04:45:51 ops 04:50:32 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 05:02:29 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D487.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:34 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D3E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:05:04 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:21 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xbcugdherfnvrsuh] has joined #lisp 05:08:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:08:10 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:08:30 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:12:31 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has joined #lisp 05:14:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xbcugdherfnvrsuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17:14 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2A956.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:18:21 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-llwlholkvzjphpje] has joined #lisp 05:31:07 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:14 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:11 -!- derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:39:37 derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:40:20 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:35 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:44:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:44:17 ,l 05:44:45 System: 05:47:57 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:48:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:51:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:52:07 heh 05:52:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:53:11 soo... SLIME-over-IRC? :D 05:53:31 btw, was there any multiuser LispM? 05:54:49 Open Genera could be brow beaten to it, I guess 05:55:42 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@cpe-174-100-235-249.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 06:05:31 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@133.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:06:57 *quotemstr* read that as "multiplayer LispM". 06:08:02 Hrm, nifty. 06:08:10 The Lisp Machine source is available. 06:08:43 quick, port it to iPad! 06:10:03 Hrm. Lisp Machine List... "has dynamic binding, but supports closures with a special construct". 06:10:06 That sounds frightening. 06:11:05 It's always more impressive when you can't use it. 06:11:56 Oh, god. 06:12:01 It's written in ALL CAPS. 06:15:25 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:59 Joreji [~thomas@92-231.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:19:21 Yay. 06:19:28 The Emacs modelines *from 1980* are still fine today. 06:20:47 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-21-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:21:51 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:22:19 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest52343 06:22:27 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-12-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:23:57 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:27:38 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:28:10 errr. 06:28:56 using sbcl 1.0.39.10, I get "unhandled DEBUG-CONDITION: # has no debug-block information." when I hit "v" on a frame 06:29:00 in slime 06:29:06 M-. works, though 06:29:42 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:29:48 what's up with that? I have declaimed (optimize debug) at the top of the file 06:30:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78-131-24-76.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:31:20 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:31:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@78-131-24-76.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:31:22 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 06:31:31 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:46 that's sbcl's fault, slime uses sb-di:frame-code-location 06:32:37 huh, now it appears to work 06:33:18 i experienced something like this 06:33:32 but couldn't track it 06:33:39 antifuchs: can you paste that function? 06:33:47 -!- Guest52343 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:34:23 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 06:34:25 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:34:43 ah, lisppaste isn't here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111418 06:34:58 lisppaste is hushed 06:35:18 (I'm assembling a few examples that show off slime) 06:36:02 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:07 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:36:36 antifuchs: and how do you load it? 06:37:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zbwncrzuiylddoxg] has joined #lisp 06:37:03 ah, the title says it: C-c C-k to compile&load, then C-M-x on the #+nil'ed form 06:37:27 hohoho [~hohoho@2001:200:180:1907:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 06:38:50 looks like something non-deterministic 06:43:09 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:43:37 indeed 06:43:41 it looks like it's working now 06:43:54 so I'll just hope it will continue to work through the demo (: 06:45:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:46:05 tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has joined #lisp 06:46:40 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:47:08 Heh. 06:47:14 Maclisp implemented hash tables with arrays. 06:47:52 and they should be implemented with? 06:48:08 A fundamental type? 06:51:37 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-114-28.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:53:16 why? 06:53:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:30 what would that fundamental type be implemented with? 06:53:33 You're right; it's not terribly important. You can do it that way. 06:53:47 What's more confusing is "(DEFUN DEFUN ("E &REST ARG)"... 06:53:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:53:54 :P 06:54:05 Bootstrapping this must have been fun. 06:54:17 where did you see that? 06:54:41 toast`: In the Lisp Machine sources. I was curious. :-P 06:54:49 quotemstr: Maxima has some Maclisp code still :) 06:55:09 Specifically, qfctns.435 (I assume the extension must have been some kind of revision number). 06:55:12 What does "e mean? 06:55:14 hmm. one of my friends is into the genera software 06:55:21 maybe he'd get that better 06:55:26 Zhivago: Beats me. 06:55:39 probably something specific to a lisp machine 06:55:40 means it doesn't evaluate its arguments 06:55:54 well, that would do it then 06:56:06 Let's define new special forms whenever we feel like! 06:56:08 defun passes its body to eval unevaluated 06:56:17 and the args as well 06:56:23 Ah, right. 06:56:32 unevaluated form + environment = turing complete 06:57:52 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Special-Forms.html 06:58:53 stassats: Thanks. 06:59:08 and http://common-lisp.net/project/bknr/static/lmman/fd-fun.xml#defun 06:59:12 I've been playing with a language which only has macros. 07:00:39 Interesting. It's like reading Chaucer. 07:01:31 Zhivago: ? 07:02:42 quote: Hmm? 07:02:57 Zhivago: This macro language. 07:03:57 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:05:56 Oh. Well, it essentially does pattern substitution and collapses infinitely large programs by beta-abstraction. 07:09:36 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:13:12 Hrm, that's another interesting feature: Maclisp (or Zetalisp at least) had *first class value cells* called locative pointers. 07:15:11 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 07:15:18 http://common-lisp.net/project/bknr/static/lmman/fd-loc.xml 07:18:23 quotemstr: Zeta Lisp had those, it was afaik part of CONS design 07:19:01 No wonder that feature was removed for Common Lisp: I can imagine their existence making life difficult for an optimizer. 07:19:20 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:20:11 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:20:37 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:20:46 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:51 quotemstr: seems like an ordinary pointer, what difficulties would it have? 07:22:26 Aliasing? 07:23:12 Although in practice it might not a big deal. Hrm. 07:26:47 Did it support pointer arithmetic? 07:27:38 locatives only point to other cells, not arbitrary objects 07:28:06 -!- derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:28:15 stassats: didn't they point to *any* memory cell, whatever it described? 07:28:39 p_l: you can visit the link i pasted above 07:29:01 derekv [~Real@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:11 Aren't objects vectors of cells in the space of cells? 07:29:51 yup, they are - a symbol is described as a vector of 5 cells 07:30:06 numeric arrays are different though 07:30:22 fiveop [~fiveop@g229112033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:30 so, they aren't? 07:30:31 what were the 5 cells again? 07:30:37 value, function, macro ... 07:30:38 ? 07:30:38 actually, locative on SBCL should be simpler because there's no CDR coding 07:30:56 (...)a symbol has five cells: the print name cell, the value cell, the function cell, the property list cell, and the package cell. 07:31:00 toast`: name, property list 07:31:14 macros fall under function I gues 07:31:17 *guess 07:31:22 + package 07:31:25 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 07:31:43 So, does a locative allow you to access cell + n as well as just cell? 07:32:01 no 07:32:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:25 package too, forgot about that 07:32:28 home package, right? 07:32:29 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 obviously 07:32:59 :P 07:33:03 *toast`* noob 07:34:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@92-231.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:36:59 so, in maclisp, EXPR, FEXPR, and MACRO were just 3 kinds of functions 07:37:08 pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has joined #lisp 07:37:34 nostoi [~nostoi@86.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:45 kinda an interesting way for things to evolve. and fexpr's eventually showed up in lazy evaluation languages like miranda 07:37:58 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:38:43 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:39:09 well that is a pleasant surprise. "here you go, alpha-quality threads on sbcl/win32" 07:40:04 toast`: I thought MACRO was more like DEFMACRO. 07:40:36 quotemstr: yeah, but that's really just another level of lazy evaluation 07:41:14 really lazy. the compiler doesn't even bother interpreting the arguments, let alone evaluating them :) 07:46:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:46:48 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2001:200:180:1907:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:39 hohoho [~hohoho@2001:200:180:1907:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 07:53:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-llwlholkvzjphpje] has left #lisp 07:54:21 cool, my university moved to Win7 Enterprise :D 07:54:24 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@86.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:54:45 Krystof: awesome, by the cl-gtk2 guy so that's a least a decent way to test it 07:56:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229112033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:57:30 shame I can't remember enough Russian to read his livejournal 07:59:15 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 07:59:56 hah. From the R object system documentation: 08:00:20 A message is printed after the initial call to 'setMethod'; this is not an error, just a reminder that you have created the generic. Creating the generic explicitly by the call 'setGeneric("f3")' avoids the message, but has the same effect. 08:01:15 analogies to SBCL's verbosity when it sees a defmethod without a defgeneric... are spot on 08:03:36 -!- pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:05:08 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-109.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:06:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:25 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:01 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:02 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:12:22 tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has joined #lisp 08:15:20 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 08:16:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:21:15 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:21:15 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:17 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 08:24:57 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn199.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:27:08 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:28:45 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:06 hello 08:32:43 -!- prip [~foo@host231-125-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:38:41 Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has joined #lisp 08:39:13 good day everyone 08:39:27 hu Blkt 08:39:28 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:39:42 :D 08:39:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has joined #lisp 08:39:49 hi, oh 08:40:12 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:42:37 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:09 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:45:19 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 08:45:26 prip [~foo@host16-123-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:45:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cwygbxfuexejtwab] has joined #lisp 08:47:37 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ac4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:10 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:16 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:02 Any idea how to teach paredit not to emit a space between #M #2A etc. and the following parenthesis? 08:54:45 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-198-65.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:55:30 leo2007: I think you should make Emacs not to treat # as a separate sexp 08:56:01 with help of inferior Lisp 08:56:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:30 http://mumble.net/~campbell/tmp/paredit/paredit-cl-octothorpe.el 08:56:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:56:57 stassats: this exists?! 08:56:58 oh wow 08:57:09 *antifuchs* predicts /huge/ time savings 08:57:22 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:43 it was somewhat not straightforward to set up, as far as i remember 08:58:08 does it work user-defined reader macros? 08:58:26 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-160.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:59:01 leo2007: no 08:59:06 yes! 08:59:10 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-44-216.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59:19 stassats: how can it? 08:59:52 good morning 09:00:02 it's configurable, you know 09:01:19 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:01:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cwygbxfuexejtwab] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:02:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2001:200:180:1907:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:55 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 09:04:39 indeed it wasn't straightforward to setup. 09:05:05 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-230.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:05:13 hm, still trying to set it up (: 09:05:37 I have (load "delimiter-space" t) (load "cl-octothorpe" t) 09:05:41 and it didn't work 09:05:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has joined #lisp 09:07:46 jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 09:07:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:08:41 antifuchs: this was the answer paredit's author gave me a year ago http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225204 09:08:52 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:15 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:09:39 that's what's obvious 09:09:56 yeah, I am loading both, but it's not really octothorping 09:10:22 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.94.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:11:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gftogcwpmbjxgwsr] has joined #lisp 09:11:32 ah, hah. I'm autoloading paredit. obvious in retrospect. 09:12:14 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 09:12:20 stassats: that was at a time when I didn't know those files exist. 09:12:44 antifuchs: let me know if you have any luck. 09:12:57 hm, eval-after-load doesn't help there 09:13:04 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 09:13:19 I load paredit directly. 09:13:25 you can stop trying, i'll tell you how to get it working once i got it 09:13:38 thanks, stassats! 09:13:53 *leo2007* waits 09:13:53 so that we don't triple wasted time 09:18:36 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:1934:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 09:19:03 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-160.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:25 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:04 ok, http://paste.lisp.org/display/111419 that's what i put in my config 09:20:04 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-58.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 (you don't need to load any other files) 09:21:44 it's actually easy to set-up, the problem was that it just wasn't working 09:21:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:1934:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:26 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has joined #lisp 09:24:15 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:25:09 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:25:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:25:38 stassats: thanks. did you change any of the functions? 09:25:58 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:04 yes 09:27:07 this is so much better 09:27:10 thanks, stassats! 09:27:24 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:27:26 (monkey-patching elisp code like this feels evil, though (-:) 09:28:02 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:18 there is advice mechanism 09:30:54 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:32:11 and elisp code without using cl looks so much uglier 09:32:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:57 stassats: Use your code I can get the desired behaviour in lisp files but not in REPL which is actually where I need it the most. 09:33:23 well, you need it turn it on in the repl then 09:33:41 it is on already. I use paredit everywhere I can. 09:34:01 *lichtblau* tries Windows threads, reports success 09:34:03 well, paredit is on, but not this fix-up 09:34:08 leo2007: see the hook 09:34:09 stassats: i need to hook. thanks 09:34:12 yup 09:34:53 sbcl windows threads is exciting, too bad i don't have windows 09:34:54 Had to copy over sb-posix from an older SBCL, but otherwise that binary installer from Dmitry just works. Very cool. 09:36:02 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:21 Goodbye CCL/win32, it was nice working with you. 09:37:30 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 stassats: could you send your improvement to paredit's author at campbell AT mumble DOT net ? 09:39:02 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:03 anyone wanna get rich??? Invent some damn wireless networking that works.. 09:41:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:53:26 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 09:55:59 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-190-86.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:00:10 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:02:28 hmm, how'd I go about optimising when 50% of total time is spent inside the top-level function itself, and the next heaviest function is 9% (LENGTH)? 10:03:09 i look at your function, think hard, rewrite it, repeat. 10:04:55 lichtblau: btw, what's wrong with CCL/win32 (except the dead horse concerning win32/win64 issue?) 10:05:57 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:06:24 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-96-47.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:12 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:10:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:14:34 *Xach* feels the thrill of excitement again 10:15:19 p_l: for me it would be that my main development happens on SBCL on Linux, so I'm more familiar with it (its error messages, warnings, I know what patterns to look for) so having to use CCL on Windows feels awkward. The upside is of having to use CCL on Windows makes my code better due to it being run on different implementations and CCL compiles much faster (but resulting code has been slower for me). 10:18:51 p_l: the low runtime speed. 10:20:20 aerique: I saw the performance comparison between sbcl and ccl on fft with bordeaux-fft, ccl was much slower. 10:20:57 dysinger [~dysinger@206.205.21.219] has joined #lisp 10:20:58 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@206.205.21.219] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:21:18 *p_l* finds the performance "good enough" most of the time, anyway. 10:22:24 yeah, same here. and i would easily trade more performance for a good interpreter in a free lisp as well. i'm at loss at this excessive speed focus. :) 10:22:45 hypno: SBCL includes an interpreter now 10:22:55 ECL and CLISP have one as well 10:23:41 p_l: oh that is excellent news! it allows for better debugging support and dynamic macro expansion? 10:23:45 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:24:45 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:07 sbcl's interpreter is a performance hack. no improvement for debugging. 10:25:13 hypno: dunno 10:25:32 ECL and debugging is a ride on a wild horse ;-) 10:27:00 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:11 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:27:29 hello, I've a small problem with getf 10:27:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:28:04 I have a function that calls read-from string 10:28:23 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 10:29:07 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:1934:8:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 10:29:10 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:20 then I call from another function (getf status 'messages status) but result is '(MESSAGES 160 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 6761 UIDVALIDITY 1219826147 UNSEEN 14) 10:29:26 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:27 why ? 10:30:25 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:30:44 kiuma: because you're confused between plist and alist somewhere in your code? 10:31:15 Fare, everytime :/ 10:33:52 Fade, but is (MESSAGES 160 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 6761 UIDVALIDITY 1219826147 UNSEEN 14) and alist ? 10:34:11 aerique! 10:34:23 aerique: what's the best way to install ogre on linux for okra? 10:35:26 kiuma: what does STATUS look like? 10:35:59 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 10:36:10 i guess (messages ...) is status (that's what GETF returns when it can't find 'messages) 10:36:23 and i guess you have package mismatch 10:37:16 stassats, it was what I thought, but how could I do ? I'm reading an IMAP4 reply from status command 10:37:34 as told before with read-from-string 10:38:21 how could you do? with read-from-string, evidently 10:38:21 Xach: I've resorted to using the Debian packages instead of compiling it myself. 10:38:34 kiuma: You haven't given anyone enough information to know the solution, only to guess. 10:38:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:38:42 aerique: ah, ok. my debian is too old :( 10:39:01 *Xach* will upgrade soon 10:39:15 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:40:18 Xach: you might try cherry-picking the packages from testing or unstable and hope there aren't too many dependencies.. i do that for SBCL 10:41:26 Xach: This is still somewhat relevant except I dropped CEGUI in favour of MyGUI (but for plain Ogre you don't need them, just for run some samples to come with Okra) 10:41:32 Xach: http://aerique.blogspot.com/2009/12/easy-okra-on-debian.html 10:41:36 here http://paste.lisp.org/display/111421 10:42:33 kiuma: What is that? 10:42:59 It doesn't look at all like what you described here. 10:44:08 Xach ?? You wanted to know where the list came from I showed where: (cmd-status is pathname) returns a list of strings that is parsed by parse-status function 10:44:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gftogcwpmbjxgwsr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:44:27 Xach: I'm using Ogre directly from ECL as an alternative approach currently. 10:44:41 ah sorry I have changed getf with assoc (big mistake) 10:46:11 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111421#1 10:46:36 this is what I was talking about before 10:47:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 kiuma: What do you see if you trace parse-status? 10:48:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:49:26 Xach, what should I write (I never used trace) 10:49:43 kiuma: Doesn't matter. You assumed too much about what parse-status returned. 10:50:13 kiuma: It returns a list that has a symbol named "MESSAGE" but it's in a different package than the 'message symbol in message-count. 10:50:32 kiuma: One way around that is to pass an explicit package to READ-FROM-STRING, or to bind *PACKAGE* explicitly. 10:51:27 Fare: I moved to asdf2 last night. It seems to me it is no longer needed to have a separate system dir for linking the .asd files, right? 10:52:02 right 10:52:16 though if you don't, under SBCL, you might have a slow startup 10:52:45 which is an annoying but acceptable price to pay for me, but YMMV 10:52:48 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.128.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 10:54:57 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111032215.a1.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:20 Fare: is it slower on ccl? 10:55:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:56:11 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:56:26 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:56:32 it seems that read-from-string doesn't accept a package input variable, I've tryed with (*package* (find-package :mail-cl)) and it works 10:56:37 Xach, thanks 10:57:26 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.180] has joined #lisp 10:57:33 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:56 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:30 leo2007, ccl doesn't pause as much as sbcl when recursing through DIRECTORYs 11:01:13 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:01:34 SBCL is so bad there that in XCVB, I spawn find instead of using DIRECTORY. 11:01:45 i see 11:02:07 " note: 11:02:08 doing signed word to integer coercion (cost 20), for: the first argument of CHECK-FIXNUM" 11:02:15 Fare: my current setup is like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225232, which was found by trial and error. 11:02:21 could somebody explain what that means? 11:02:36 do you see anything funny there? 11:03:11 I'm unsure why SBCL has to coerce anything when I was careful to assert the argument is a fixnum 11:04:48 and that argument must be coerced to a generic integer for CHECK-FIXNUM. 11:04:53 looks fine -- why not put it in a ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf file though? 11:05:09 then you don't need to explicitly call initialize-source-registry 11:05:52 I want to have it in .ccl-init.lisp and it seems easier to move it to another computer and it just works. 11:06:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: lunch!] 11:06:33 pkhuong: uh, why? Doesn't that defeat the point of having type declarations? 11:07:31 if you want to be safe 11:07:35 declare (safety 0) if you want to be able to lie to the compiler 11:07:53 pkhuong: I don't, I just don't understand how that works 11:08:01 I say X is a fixnum 11:08:03 Fare: I found that a symlink inside a tree is ignored, i.e. if I have slime inside "home:.ccl;site;" that is sym-linked to the real slime repo, it is ignored. 11:08:28 and then SBCL says "okay, but it's going to cost you extra to check whether it's actually a fixnum, because doing that requires upcasting to integer first" 11:08:36 in sbcl type declarations are also assertions 11:09:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:54 I don't really understand the mechanism by which SBCL could get a fixnum, upcast it to integer and then decide it's not actually a fixnum after all 11:10:18 because it might be not a fixnum 11:10:31 if it's converting *from* a fixnum, does that mean the chance to check it has already been lost? 11:11:00 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:11:10 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11:19 I don't really mind assertions, but I want inline arithmetics 11:11:38 and it's giving that note on an INCF form 11:11:38 and now I'm fairly certain you're misinterpreting the note. 11:11:48 that's very possible, because it's confusing to me 11:12:02 leo2007, we use DIRECTORY - what it does of symlinked directories is implementation-dependent 11:12:14 Right, because that operation isn't closed over fixnums. 11:12:45 hmm, true 11:12:47 it's not checking the argument, but the new value before setfing the binding. 11:13:09 I guess INCFing the index isn't really gonna be my bottleneck just yet :) 11:13:35 Fare: What do you do on sbcl on windows? 11:14:18 Fare: what's the reason of not using iolib for dir scanning? still haven't decided for going the iolib dependency way? 11:14:31 I don't have windows, but it should work. I doubt DIRECTORY follows shortcuts, though. 11:15:04 attila_lendvai, in ASDF? can't depend on it. In XCVB? Low priority change when I have something that works from pre-iolib times. 11:15:21 ah, right, i was confused 11:15:59 currently, the only XCVB dependency on iolib is the farmer. And until I have a good solution for distributing code with .so's, I may want to make the farmer and iolib dependency feature-dependent or some such. 11:16:52 any idea whether it is possible to treat swank-loader.lisp like every other .lisp files with asdf2, i.e. the compiled output should be saved to the same dir as the rest of the .lisp in slime? 11:18:07 leo: you can use asdf:compile-file-pathname* 11:18:27 Fare: a solution exists already 11:18:41 in asdf 2.1, I should probably have a compile-file* that calls compile-file-pathname* AND does a file-renaming-based atomicity trick. 11:18:49 fe[nl]ix, what is it? 11:19:02 export LD_LIBRARY_PATH ? 11:19:07 *p_l* was looking into adding "concatenate-fasls" operation to ASDF 11:19:51 because the .so will be deleted from the cache directory where it's compiled. 11:20:16 I'm not sure how to tell CFFI that the installation location is different from the compilation location. 11:20:46 (CFFI, or SBCL) 11:20:54 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 11:21:11 Fare: could you elaborate a bit? at the moment swank-loader is compiled to where slime is installed and the rest is to ~/.slime/fasl, they are in separate places. 11:22:26 leo2007, well, first, the whole point of swank-loader is that it doesn't depend on asdf 11:22:36 so you'd have to use #+asdf2 #-asdf2 everywhere 11:22:45 add a save-hook that unloads (cffi:list-foreign-libraries :type :grovel-wrapper), then save an image 11:23:38 leo2007: search for swank-loader:*fasl-directory* in http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.build;a=headblob;f=/source/build.lisp 11:24:12 tcr1 [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has joined #lisp 11:24:29 fe[nl]ix: but what if you start again, the .so's need to be available *somewhere* -- i guess that's the main headache 11:24:47 attila_lendvai: thanks 11:25:18 a better solution would be if some .a's could be included on the lisp heap and then "dlopen"-ed from lisp at image start time 11:25:28 or some hackery of that kind 11:25:31 -!- shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:56 one simple solution would be to (defvar *fasl-directory* #-asdf2 (default-fasl-dir) #+asdf2 (asdf:apply-output-translations (asdf-utilities:pathname-directory-pathname *load-truename*))) 11:25:57 attila_lendvai: yes. LD_LIBRARY_PATH or put them in /usr/local/cffi/ and add that dir to /etc/ld.so.conf 11:26:09 /usr/local/lib/cffi/ 11:26:37 attila_lendvai, better would be if there were a linkkit for sbcl so you can re-link the runtime. 11:26:46 that would be awesome 11:26:52 :) 11:27:14 leo2007, of course, you may need to (ignore-errors (require :asdf)) or some such somewhere in swank-loader, too. 11:29:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111032215.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:30:09 zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111032215.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:43 leo2007: or use http://repo.or.cz/w/gentoo-lisp-overlay.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/app-emacs/slime/files/9999/swank.asd 11:31:33 fe[nl]ix: thanks. I was just wondering how various linux distros patch slime ;) 11:31:40 package* 11:32:47 leo2007: then http://repo.or.cz/w/gentoo-lisp-overlay.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/app-emacs/slime/files/swank-loader.lisp 11:32:50 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.41] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 thanks. 11:36:01 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bxvldtiawibvvbfk] has joined #lisp 11:37:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111032215.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37:55 zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:42 -!- zhivago is now known as Zhivago 11:41:10 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-96-47.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:41:33 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 11:42:03 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:1934:8:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:18 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:42:21 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-173-141.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:30 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:42 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:02 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 11:49:19 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:50:47 hmm, the way SBCL's optimisation notes are reported leaves something to be desired, especially when the code in question is inside a macro 11:51:53 it refers to the compiler-macro transformed code, which means most of the time you can't make heads or tails out of it 11:53:16 you have to use your instincts 11:53:30 ...luke 11:53:33 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-42-154.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:51 stassats: yes, I use my instincts to macroexpand inline and recompile to have some idea what it's talking about 11:58:52 aw [~aw@141.76.6.234] has joined #lisp 12:00:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111422 12:02:12 i don't know, if that's your code, it should be pretty obvious about which vector it's talking 12:03:50 stassats: because it gave the line number in this particular case, because it was outside of any macros 12:04:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:04:38 unfortunately the bulk of speed-critical code in this function resides inside macros, which means I get a pile of transformed code reported with no references to anything that might actually resemble what I wrote 12:06:06 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111422#1 12:06:33 I resort to macroexpanding inline, but it's very suboptimal 12:07:13 i bet it's hard to find by reading notes alone. i use notes, code, experience 12:07:28 mathrick: I do that very often, and it usually works quite fine 12:07:59 mathrick: the trick is to replace "#:" with "", to make the code compile 12:08:06 sure, I know that :) 12:08:25 doesn't mean SBCL couldn't do a bit better job with reporting untransformed forms 12:08:47 I know it's hard, but it could report code before compiler macros are in effect at least 12:10:22 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:26 gah, and now I expanded it, it no longer gives that note 12:10:33 WHY MUST YOU TAUNT ME, SBCL 12:13:04 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:16:00 zomgbie [~jesus@93.83.191.198] has joined #lisp 12:16:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:16:01 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:16:03 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 12:18:32 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:38 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:50 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 12:20:51 itheos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:21:17 -!- Beetny 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Connection reset by peer] 12:48:45 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63.144.132.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:49 amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 12:54:02 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 12:54:34 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:55:35 eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 12:56:08 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 12:56:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111423 12:56:56 shouldn't SBCL be able to use the FTYPE I declared here? 12:58:25 laynor [~user@dhcp-892b9a43.ucd.ie] has joined #lisp 12:58:39 what's a good name for (and (numberp x) (not (zerop x)))? Do it other way? namewise I came up with nonzeronumber. 12:58:45 mathrick: in a local declaration? 12:59:16 lharc: NATURALP ? 12:59:36 stassats`: yes, is that a problem? 12:59:37 galdor: negative numbers aren't natural, and zero is a natural number 12:59:47 mathrick: well, it's _local_ 13:00:10 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 13:00:15 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:24 stassats`: and within a compilation unit 13:00:25 stassats`: last time I checked, 0 isn't a natural, but you're right for negative number 13:00:33 sorry :) 13:01:07 then your natural numbers aren't as natural as mine 13:01:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_number 13:01:26 apparently there are two definitions 13:01:41 at least in france, I was always told that naturals are {0, 1, 2} 13:02:05 mathrick: moreover, it's lexical 13:03:17 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 G'morning all. 13:03:58 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn199.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:04:19 stassats`: uhh, so? There's only one lexically apparent definition of ACCESS, and it's FTYPE'd and within the same compilation unit 13:05:02 lharc: (or (alexandria:negative-real-p n) (alexandria:positive-real-p n)) 13:05:13 is there someway to get disassemble to emit ir1, ir2 code in sbcl, i am trying to read through romans sbcl compiler articles in planet.sbcl.org 13:05:41 Dawgmatix: there's trace option to compile-file 13:05:43 hi nyef 13:05:43 (i currently am using :trace-file) 13:06:20 Win32 threads? Sweet! 13:06:37 mathrick: ugh, i must be confusing. its scope is within the body of your defun 13:06:41 thanks stassats 13:06:53 Dawgmatix: well, that's what you're using 13:07:01 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:02 i know :) 13:07:40 mathrick: i thought you're familiar with DECLAIM 13:08:01 stassats`: ooh, right 13:10:24 mathrick: see also sb-ext:*derive-function-types* 13:12:14 fe[nl]ix: omg, I'm staring at that macrolet that defines negative-real-p.. where did they get inspiration to that beast? 13:12:52 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:13:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:09 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:14:51 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:02 knobo [~user@90.149.5.245] has joined #lisp 13:16:17 -!- abugosh 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[~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:22:37 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:25:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:27:31 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.143.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:36 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:42 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:38:51 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:05 ... Every time I turn around, SIG_STOP_FOR_GC is blocked. WTF? 14:43:16 what did you eat today? :-) 14:43:26 Heh. Cute. 14:43:54 obviously, you must face in one direction from now on 14:44:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:39 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:45:07 Okay, one more bug found. I'd made a stupid choice for a temp register, which caused a segfault, which might have masked the signal. 14:49:46 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:01 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 14:50:26 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 14:53:30 *levente_meszaros* is again annoyed by the fact that (subtypep 'foo 'bar) does not signals an error 14:53:36 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:53:55 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-100-100.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:14 why should it? 14:54:50 it tells you if it can't tell due to non-typeness (: 14:55:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:26 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 14:55:40 morning folks 14:56:03 wow. win32 threads??? 14:56:06 Hello slyrus. 14:56:06 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 14:56:09 yeah, cool 14:56:11 Yeah, that was my reaction, too. 14:56:16 antifuchs, no it doesn't tell me, (values NIL NIL) is a valid answer for two proper type specifiers 14:56:17 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.72] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 oh, I didn't see the smiley 14:57:08 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:57:11 it's not as specific as you'd like, but it's a correct answer anyway 14:57:21 antifuchs uses smileys all the time you can just ignore them :-) 14:58:07 lichtblau: are you maintaining clim-gtkairo these days? 14:58:24 LiamH: hello, (lisp-unit:run-tests) causes this exception http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225303 14:58:45 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:15 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-204-227.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:59:42 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 hi, is there a standard way to get the current time of day in lisp? 15:00:20 clop: get-universal-time, get-decoded-time 15:00:21 With asdf2 ,load-system in slime repl no longer has completions for unloaded systems 15:00:26 antifuchs, yeah, in this case it's useless 15:00:33 Xach, thanks! 15:00:51 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 15:01:05 leo2007: would be grateful if you figure out why 15:02:19 sbcl doesn't have asdf2 yet, so i'm not as anxious to fix it 15:03:25 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:05 LiamH: There are two pastes here: http://paste.pocoo.org/tree/225303/ regarding the unhandled exception. 15:07:09 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:18 levente_meszaros: AIUI, if (subtypep 'foo NIL) has a second return value of NIL, I think you can be pretty sure 'foo is not a type specifier 15:08:43 tcr1: I'll give it a try. 15:13:18 *nyef* screams. 15:13:32 antifuchs, (subtypep '(satisfies integerp) nil) -> (VALUES NIL NIL) and there are other examples (I guess most of them are not so useful though) 15:13:58 well, ouch (: 15:14:24 slyrus___ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:23 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:10 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:16:11 tcr1: fix here http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225310 15:20:07 leo2007: Can you please send an email to the mailing list and summarize what you are doing and seeing, and please be sure to say what your implementation, platform, etc. are? Thanks. 15:21:13 leo2007: ok, i'll apply it 15:21:22 stassats`: wait a moment 15:21:30 i take your word that it does work 15:21:33 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:21:42 stassats`: central-repo is still supported in asdf2 so I need to incorporate that too. 15:22:45 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-42-154.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:08 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:00 stassats`: this is better http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225315 15:25:54 I tested with ccl trunk and it worked. 15:26:33 -!- SleepingCoyote [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:27:31 ok, done. 15:27:35 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:19 LiamH: I will do that. 15:28:23 stassats`: thanks 15:30:41 leo2007: thanks 15:31:55 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 15:32:30 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-200.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:32:31 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-3.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:03 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 15:33:20 aw [~aw@141.76.6.234] has joined #lisp 15:33:36 -!- kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:19 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:38:06 LiamH: sent. 15:38:07 Wait they changed *central-registry* ?? 15:38:19 obsolete it 15:38:36 Oh ok I see 15:38:38 you can still use it and it tkae precedence over source-registry 15:39:02 then your fix may not be enough for that configuration scenario right? 15:39:12 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:18 tcr1: the second one is 15:39:26 ie http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225315 15:39:29 slyrus: I don't know whether someone is maintaining it, but if so, it's not me. 15:39:56 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 15:40:22 leo2007: You don't mean GSL 1.4, do you? 1.14 perhaps? 15:40:34 LiamH: 1.14 sorry for the typo 15:40:46 LiamH: I always try staying up-to-date ;) 15:40:50 -!- mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:12 leo2007: you're more up to date than I am, running 1.11 at home 15:42:51 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-59-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 leo2007: can you try to identify which test set it's failing in? (lisp-unit:run-tests matrix-set-all) for example to see if it's that one. Weirdly it looks from the backtrace like it's mathieu, yet all the tests are passing in mathieu. 15:43:43 LiamH: I noticed the problem when trying to use histograms and so decided to run the tests. The exception can be easily reproduced. So let me know if you need more info. 15:44:38 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:38 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: .] 15:49:50 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.110.221] has joined #lisp 15:51:40 dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 15:52:33 leo2007: yes, I need more info. Try (lisp-unit:run-tests mathieu). 15:53:27 LiamH: that causes it. 15:54:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.110.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:30 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-64.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:55:00 tcr1: I dislike using its internal variable asdf::*source-registry*, I will refine the patch a bit later. 15:55:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bpaewbfxeunbqdbi] has joined #lisp 15:55:45 OK, do (setf lisp-unit::*use-debugger* t), rerun it and see if that gives any more useful information (probably not, since it looks like it's bailing out of CCL entirely). 15:56:47 leo2007: swank-asdf uses unexported symbols all over the place 15:57:00 benny` [~user@i577A862B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:52 LiamH: no luck 15:58:04 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-50-240.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:16 LiamH: the backtrace is as brief as before 15:58:57 -!- benny [~user@i577A3AA4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:27 stassats`: in that case I'll leave it as is. 15:59:43 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:59:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:00:03 leo2007: try (MATHIEU-CE-ARRAY 0.0d0 (/ PI 2) 6) please. 16:00:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:00:58 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:23 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:29 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-tkxljelribrdnuaa] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 LiamH: # 16:04:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:09 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-amxdwefixjvuisau] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04:17 LiamH: I am your REPL now :) 16:06:32 LiamH: it just find something out. (lisp-unit:run-tests mathieu) doesn't crash when run directly in the terminal. crash happens when running it in slime-repl 16:06:41 Ah ha! 16:07:05 LiamH: the backtrace I sent to the mailing list was run directly in the terminal. 16:07:30 Which makes it harder to debug, of course. 16:07:44 Unless I get CCL going here, I can't test it. 16:08:06 I've never figured out how to run CCL using clbuild. 16:08:34 LiamH: i just grabbed it directly from svn 16:10:02 LiamH: I'll avoid using slime. here's the new backtrace: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225331 16:10:35 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-63-141.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:22 kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 16:13:05 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:05 leo2007: yeah, that actually tells me less unfortunately 16:15:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bpaewbfxeunbqdbi] has left #lisp 16:16:40 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@115.134.227.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:52 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-198-65.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 16:23:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:24:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:24:33 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:16 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:33:35 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:33:55 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.71] has joined #lisp 16:34:18 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:49 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:59 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has left #lisp 16:35:47 pers [~user@99.sub-75-231-0.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:59 cl-irc [~foobiz@99.sub-75-231-0.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.80.61] has joined #lisp 16:46:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:14 curi [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:05 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:48:57 hello 16:48:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:05 Hello. 16:49:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:21 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:53:26 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.224.131] has joined #lisp 16:55:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77.46.224.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:58:45 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.80.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:50 tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.7] has joined #lisp 16:59:52 ... Since when did we have an SBCL/PPC/solaris port? 17:00:18 Does Solaris even EXIST for PPC? 17:00:21 solaris on PPC? 17:00:25 Exactly! 17:00:25 I know there was talk of a port back in the day 17:00:29 didn't think it happened 17:01:19 nyef: what makes you think that such a port exists ? 17:01:28 But if you look at src/runtime/gencgc.c, scavenge_interrupt_context(), there's a specific mention of the behavior of solaris that isn't in the cheneygc version, and the function doesn't get called on x86oids. 17:01:47 And x86oids and ppc are the only gencgc targets. 17:02:00 Unless this dates back to cmucl? 17:02:06 nyef: presumably someone ported it not realising it's not called on x86? 17:02:31 kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:56 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.197.217] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202605.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:59 Maybe, but the divergence between the two versions is also pretty weird. 17:07:45 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:08:02 Didn't slyrus do the gencgc port to sbcl from cmucl's ppc gencgc? Cmucl's gencgc for ppc was mostly cargo-culted from the solaris port. 17:08:40 Ignoring the attribution of the work, that may well be the case. 17:10:05 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:10:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:57 we fe[nl]ix 17:12:02 hi Blkt 17:12:07 nyef: Oh, did someone else do the port? My apologies for the incorrect attribution. 17:12:36 ISTR it being KingNato. 17:13:14 Oh, could be. I can't remember who, but I do remember discussing the port with him here. 17:14:02 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:26 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-65-233.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:15:55 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:16:13 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:16:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:19 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:31 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:20:19 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:20:37 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-153-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:52 I know Solyaris on CCCP... 17:21:02 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:05 -!- cl-irc [~foobiz@99.sub-75-231-0.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:07 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-50-240.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:21 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.197.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:03 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:37 _8david [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:16 abugosh [~Adium@m385a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:56 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.147.57] has joined #lisp 17:28:16 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-101-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:28:55 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:05 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 17:31:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m385a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:57 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:36:44 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-130-170.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:52 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 17:37:45 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:39:07 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has joined #lisp 17:39:21 lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:15 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:31 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:51:14 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@206.205.21.219] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 17:54:12 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:02 astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-7.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:57:15 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:00:27 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:03:59 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:04:02 -!- pers [~user@99.sub-75-231-0.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 18:04:55 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:05:09 does anyone know if there is common lisp support for yaml? 18:05:28 google and cliki suggest there isn't 18:07:55 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-3.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:07:56 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-199.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 pnq [asdf@ACA267D1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:57 what do you mean by "common lisp support" 18:10:55 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 18:11:17 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:35 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 18:12:16 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 18:13:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:37 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:18:14 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:22 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA267D1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:05 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has joined #lisp 18:20:56 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229112033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:21:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 fiveop [~fiveop@g229112033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:43 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-21-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:58 -!- FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:31 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:46 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:24:37 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-64.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 18:29:25 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082CCA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:55 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 18:33:00 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082EA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:44 holycow: There's always the FFI. 18:36:51 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:22 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 18:39:42 -!- Paraselene [~Not@81-178-173-141.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:34 Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:42:24 sileinius_ [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:45 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:10 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:02 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:01 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 18:46:34 LiamH: any luck? 18:47:49 I got ccl installed, but not running in clbuild. Slow process to figure out how to do it and debug, and I'm actually trying to do work too :-) 18:48:19 I dunno about clbuild, but I casually build ccl from source. 18:48:40 and I've built clisp and sbcl with clbuild w/o problem. 18:49:00 I built it, but I have all my projects set up in clbuild, so I'd like to make a monster core and run that. 18:49:32 LiamH: no worries. I use ode and root-multi and the tests seem all pass. although ode reports 8 out of 9 failures. 18:49:36 Fare: how? clb --implementation ccl just gives me a short help 18:50:31 Fare: I remembered I could nnot use (require ...) to load systems in CCL but now I seems to be able to. Is that something asdf2 brings about? 18:51:49 *leo2007* never uses clbuild 18:52:21 rgrau_ [~user@101.Red-88-15-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 18:53:10 off to meeting, back in ~1 hour or so 18:53:19 LiamH: bye 18:53:43 leo2007, yes, ASDF2 can (require :fare-utils) and such. 18:54:01 and if you build from CCL trunk, you should have ASDF2. 18:54:13 you may need to first (require :asdf) 18:54:19 yes, i upgraded to ccl trunk to use asdf2 18:54:39 Fare: do you use slime? 18:54:53 leo2007, yes, though I'm no expert. 18:55:14 also, my current hacks with forking xcvb confuse SLIME. 18:55:30 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:32 maybe I can convince SLIME to go single-threaded. 18:55:48 Fare: to get asdf2 compatibility, i just submitted this patch to slime CVS http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/225315/ 18:56:00 it uses the internal variable asdf::*source-registry* 18:56:29 do you see a better way to address it? 18:57:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:58:45 Hello Fare. 18:58:50 I'm not sure what this function is meant to do. 18:58:53 reb: hi 18:59:27 I sent you an email several days ago about ASDF difficulties ... thank for your help. 18:59:30 Fare: it needs to return a list of .asd files for completion in load-system in slime-repl (ie the one triggered by ,) 18:59:45 leo2007, do you want to first (ensure-source-registry) ? 18:59:59 reb: I'm sorry I wasn't THAT helpful 19:00:41 I'm more worried about getting 2.0 out there than about fixing minor bugs in ASDF that are not regressions. 19:02:07 I fixed a few things ... 2.0 is easier to debug against. 19:03:16 Ugh. We have to -different- methods for the runtime to manipulate pseudo-atomic on gencgc, one of which operates in terms of a register context and the other in terms of a thread, but they aren't in sync for PPC. 19:03:25 s/to/two/. 19:05:53 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:01 Fare: I think ensure-source-registry is the right one. Thanks. 19:06:14 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-181-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:39 Fare: is anything required to put asdf2 into SBCL other than just pulling in the new file? 19:07:50 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.128] has joined #lisp 19:08:18 Fare: if you see no problem with this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225402/, I'll ask someone to commit to slime. 19:08:44 foom: shouldn't. 19:09:45 leo2007, looks "good". 19:10:01 Fare: thanks. 19:10:11 minion: memo? 19:10:12 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memo''. 19:10:23 reb: fixed things in your code or in asdf2 ? 19:10:30 minion: memoir? 19:10:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memoir''. 19:10:49 how to leave a memoir to someone? 19:12:41 minion: help? 19:12:41 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 19:13:01 minion: memos? 19:13:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memos''. 19:13:05 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 19:15:31 minion: memo for stassats: please apply the patch in http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/225406/ in slime which avoids using the internal variable (thanks to Fare). 19:15:31 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 19:19:04 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-199.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:19:51 Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:20:16 Fare: Fixed things in my code, such as PERFORM not calling INPUT-FILES with asdf 2.0, so that redirection of fasls was broken. 19:20:27 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:21:09 ok 19:21:20 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 Fare: I'm still seeing ASDF recompile code when I start it fresh ... but I'll gather some more info about that by tracing DO-DEP and friends. 19:21:33 note that it would ALSO have been broken with asdf1 + asdf-binary-locations or such. 19:22:03 reb: are you doing something wrong with operation-done-p ? 19:22:08 OK ... I never used asdf-binary-locations. 19:22:21 Not sure ... all calls to operation-done-p return T. 19:22:49 dunno ... once again, you may get some insight by reading how cffi-grovel does things 19:23:07 And yet, ASDF wants to compile some things. I think I'm doing something similar. 19:24:36 It may be that I need some :in-order-to instead of :depends-on. 19:25:54 Anyway, I'm breaking my ASD file up right now -- placing test code in a separate ASDF file. Perhaps the rearrangement will make debugging simpler. 19:28:40 aw [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:49 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:47 there is no module system for CL or ? 19:30:44 like one for scheme (plt, mzscheme) ? 19:31:11 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 19:31:15 or is that what the package system is supposed to do or asdf ? 19:32:34 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-59.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:08 :in-order-to is, well, not very well understood/supported. 19:33:16 use :depends-on when applicable. 19:33:32 sepult: lexicons comes close. 19:33:58 sepult: one could implement stuff on top of CL, but it wouldn't be CL, or particularly compatible with CL libraries. 19:34:13 sepult: if you implement the Racket module system on top of CL, more power to you :) 19:34:43 packages are a gross hack that allow people to survive in absence of an actual module system. 19:36:36 so how does one ensure the proper functioning of say some code which has to be run, but with consists of multiple 19:36:36 modules, and the user just knows the module or package names which are required to get the code run, but not the order 19:36:36 of the packages, will using any order work or is there some well say habit doing that ? 19:36:50 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 sepult: http://weitz.de/packages.html 19:37:51 k 19:38:57 gah that's a help really, thanks 19:39:03 -!- ThomasP1 [~Thomas_Pr@158.223.51.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:30 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:45 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:42:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:42:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 spult: This one is good too: http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 19:45:26 That one is awful. 19:45:56 It's good if you want to get the impression that packages are dumb, and are full of nothing but confusing corner cases. Learning actual useful practice is not covered. 19:47:28 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:40 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:48:14 Also: buggy. 19:50:51 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:03 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:51:47 why ASDF2 discourages use of logical pathnames? 19:53:01 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:13 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:53:13 How does ASDF2 discourage the use of logical pathnames? 19:53:33 it doesn't. 19:53:34 I only see that with defsystem. 19:53:42 that's was I just read in the doc 19:53:44 actually, it supports them much better than ASDF1, I believe. 19:53:50 Xach: Is there a way to get a list of all the modules/systems available with quicklisp? 19:54:10 *rtoym* uses logical pathnames with mk:defsys. 19:54:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:22 Fare: good 19:54:31 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:54:31 rtoym: Not easily, yet. http://src.quicklisp.org/systems.txt has the system view, http://src.quicklisp.org/releases.txt has the release view, and http://src.quicklisp.org/sources.txt has upstream info. 19:54:39 that said, you're still on your own if/when you use logical pathnames. 19:54:48 rtoym: the format of the files will change slightly in a bit 19:54:53 not all systems will work with LPNs on all implementations. 19:55:05 SBCL is particularly anal about non-portable behavior. 19:55:12 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:37 Xach: I was mostly just curious if quicklisp itself could provide the list. What's the difference between the system and release view? 19:56:06 rtoym: there's no nice way to do it from inside. i intend to have something apropos-like soon. 19:56:47 rtoym: the system view is system centric, describing each system, which release it comes from, and what other systems it neads. the release view is release-centric, describing where to get that release, etc. 19:56:53 "neads"? 19:57:00 are there hygienic macros to CL too ? 19:57:38 or can some monster macro alter the whole system ? 19:57:59 or do i have to care for it with some tool ? 19:58:01 what "hygienic" exactly represent ? 19:58:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:50 Xach: Thanks. I see I need to get series, f2cl, and oct in there, seeing that I do use them. 19:58:51 http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/macromod.pdf 19:58:54 I never saw a macro take a shower 19:59:53 ok eval-when is one, but .... 19:59:58 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:01:25 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:27 rtoym: I had trouble pulling series from sourceforge :( 20:01:43 rtoym: i can just pull the tarball snapshot, actually. 20:02:01 rtoym: is that kept reasonably up-to-date? 20:02:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:11 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf-packaging/series-latest.tar.gz i mean. 20:02:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:43 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:58 where do f2cl and oct live? 20:03:05 Xach: The tarball from sf is fairly up-to-date, and the 2.2.11 one is current. Don't know anything about asdf-packaging. 20:03:18 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:42 oct is on common-lisp.net. No tarballs currently. f2cl is a part of clocc and since I'm not an admin, I can't do file releases with just f2cl. 20:04:18 "Welcome to CLOCC, the Consortium to Lower Obesity in Chicago Children" - not the one I'm looking for. 20:04:36 Heh. clocc.sourceforge.net will get you started. 20:05:58 I'll look into how to fix my sourceforge CVS woes. 20:07:25 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:08:45 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:09:18 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:13:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-232-229.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has joined #lisp 20:17:23 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-64.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:43 sepult, some people have implemented hygiene on top of CL macros. 20:17:56 but it's not there by default. 20:18:27 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:18:37 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229112033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:20:19 ok 20:21:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:22:51 smolyn [~smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 20:23:08 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 20:23:24 Fare: do you know how to build/use CCL in clbuild? 20:25:01 what is ccl for ? 20:25:39 minion: tell sepult about ccl 20:25:40 sepult: please look at ccl: CCL is Clozure Common Lisp, or Clozure CL for short. http://www.cliki.net/ccl 20:26:08 so it's a maclisp version of cl ? 20:26:29 It's Just Another Lisp Implementation 20:26:32 maclisp? 20:26:41 it's not maclisp at all 20:26:41 sepult: no, not maclisp 20:26:46 ah ok 20:26:47 sorry 20:26:49 maclisp != Lisp on Mac 20:26:49 dunno, something like clbuild compile-implementation ccl 20:26:49 it's common lisp 20:26:54 as the name suggests 20:27:09 Heh. That'd be amusing, though, a CL compatability layer for maclisp. 20:27:18 sepult: maclisp is the lisp where you do FFI by handcoding fasls in assembly ;-) 20:27:18 Fare: doesn't work for me 20:27:19 rtoym: just heard about oct. looks great. is it pure common lisp? 20:27:34 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-153-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:38 nyef: hehehe 20:28:05 nyef: you sure it would fit in 4MW? 20:28:27 are there any maclisp implementations for current hardware/OSes? 20:28:35 lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:35 no 20:28:57 LiamH: what error do you get? 20:29:01 the last machine that was running outside of "hobbyist" work was switched off in 2000 20:29:26 LiamH: well, elisp isn't too far off :P 20:29:26 rtoym: why does f2cl have debian/f2cl.asd in it? 20:29:28 Fare: can't find existing CCL installation in /home/healy/languages/lisp/clbuild/source/ccl 20:29:33 though I heard that there are some PDP-10 clones running modded TOPS-20 in what was left of compuserve 20:29:50 (the one in 2000 was Multics Maclisp) 20:29:52 Fare: even though it's there 20:30:57 *Xach* jets 20:31:01 rahul: except being bytecoded and not having FFI? :D 20:31:21 LiamH: I think ccl changed its image name some time ago. 20:31:30 You may have to update the clbuild script to reflect that. 20:31:49 Fare: I did a fresh darcs pull today. 20:31:53 1.5 was still lx86cl(64) on linux/intel 20:32:08 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:10 from LX86CL64 to lx86cl64.image 20:32:35 LiamH: then patch it and submit a patch upstream. 20:32:42 Fare: it does say binary=lx86cl64 in the script 20:32:50 binary is right 20:32:53 image is wrong 20:33:04 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:13 windows support prompted not having equalp names for binary and image... 20:33:45 p_l: as far as language goes, it's kinda close 20:34:32 Fare: in the CCL dir there is a lx86cl64 and a lx86cl64.image. When I run from the shell, I do ./lx86cl64 and it runs fine. Are you saying the clbuild script should say lx86cl64.image? 20:34:39 p_l: and if you had a pdp-10 emulator, you'd be bytecoded, as well 20:35:07 rahul: well, only in the sense that all emulation could be called a case of bytecoding 20:35:30 how to use cvs to grab http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/oct/?root=oct? 20:36:22 LiamH, can't you read what I said about binary= and image= ???? 20:36:37 Fare: thanks 20:36:38 p_l: yes, and it is :) 20:36:40 line 1757 20:37:06 Fare: found it, line 1755 20:37:21 rahul: though I admit, I'd be tempted to call a physical KS-10 a bytecoded architecture as well :P 20:37:51 p_l: these days x86 is emulated by a risc machine, too, for that matter 20:38:06 rahul: not completely and it's not really RISC 20:38:13 (quite often it's kind of VLIW) 20:38:14 it's all just a question of how many turtles you have 20:38:31 rahul: one more than you do. 20:38:37 heh 20:38:55 Fare: but I have one more rabbit 20:39:04 and a cow sitting on top of him 20:39:07 KS-10 was bit-sliced, so it was rather explicit in terms of "bytecoding" ;-) 20:39:38 p_l: they have instruction bundles that are committed together? 20:40:00 well, I guess that's the easiest way to slice a CISC instruction... a VLIW bundle 20:40:25 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-150.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:40:47 Fare: and I think there's a monkey jumping up and down the stack, too... 20:41:46 rahul: both NetBurst and Core use bundled "macroinstructions" 20:41:58 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:42:00 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:42:25 some instructions are still executed directly (or directly added into bundle by scheduler) 20:42:58 of course, some x86 opcodes can be translated directly to a basic op 20:43:33 but are you talking about the microcoded instructions? 20:43:38 mpasternacki [~user@chello084112070215.10.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 well, the microcode is way to small to properly cover all or even a significant subset of instructions 20:44:26 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 20:44:28 at least in intel's cpus 20:44:29 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:38 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:45:03 p_l: isn't that what microcode was advertized to do though? 20:45:31 p_l: or rather: what does microcode do in intel cpus these days? 20:46:16 -!- mpasternacki [~user@chello084112070215.10.11.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 20:46:24 p_l: that's why I'm wondering what you're talking about 20:46:45 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:46:55 varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:47:05 I am having some trouble using oct with ccl. getting Undefined function %MAKE-QD-D 20:47:22 rahul: if you weren't a vegetarian, you could make a delicious stew out of this little farm. 20:47:30 heh 20:47:36 Fare: have you eaten monkey? 20:47:48 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has joined #lisp 20:48:00 I haven't, but I've seen how the chinese eat live monkey brain. 20:48:03 leo2007: Never tried oct with ccl. I'll take a look at it. 20:48:13 rtoym: thank you. 20:48:17 heh 20:48:20 excuse me while I puke. 20:48:29 -!- slyrus___ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:48:34 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:19 Fare: only 0.0000001% Chinese do that. 20:49:22 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:51 ehu: microcode in intel's cpus has some degree of mapping between x86 opcode and actual operations, as well setting various parameters of execution 20:50:04 ehu: but it's in no way complete 20:50:05 leo2007, that's quite a lot of people ;-) 20:50:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:11 leo2007, that's still a lot of chinese. 20:50:42 the microcoded instructions are the slow ones that you aren't supposed to use. 20:50:43 20:50:43 so running a microcode update is ok no t? 20:50:46 the microcoded instructions are usually the string operations, etc, that contain loops and stuff 20:50:54 could one modify the x86 microcode to transform it into a lisp machine? 20:51:06 Fare: no. only certain instructions hit microcode 20:51:26 I believe they can modify the instruction decoder to make everything run microcode 20:51:37 although maybe one could modify the microcode for those that match the API of what you'd want for lisp machine instructions 20:51:39 ...but you wouldn't want to, because it's slow 20:51:43 heh 20:52:50 francogrex [~user@63.164-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:53:28 well, maybe it would only be as slow as real lisp machine if you did that :P 20:54:41 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:55:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-97-25.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:55:14 Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:56:09 foom: you sure? I do recall that it contained more, including stuff like instructions that changed behaviour of the cpu (or reactions to certain flags) 20:56:09 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:03 is there an Alpha emulation mode? 20:57:07 no 20:57:17 Fare: that might happen for K8 rather than Core ;-) 20:57:44 -!- francogrex [~user@63.164-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:46 oh, right. 20:57:52 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:57 also, regarding emulation, CONS-derived designs would be awfully slow compared to some new stuff, IMHO 20:58:09 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:38 The K-Machine? 20:59:16 it was a better design, IMHO 21:01:17 *p_l* doesn't really like stack machines :P 21:02:00 As an occasional forth programmer, I have to say that I -do- like stack machines. :-P 21:02:21 nyef: have you tried Factor? 21:02:33 Fare: No, I haven't. 21:02:40 *Fare* needs a speaker! 21:03:22 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:03:28 nyef: I don't have much against Forth, but for other stuff I prefer register-based ones :) 21:04:06 *p_l* ponders how Forth would map to MMIX, which explicitly drops pointer-addressable stack 21:05:04 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:32 Okay, I think I know how to sort this pseudo-atomic mess out now. 21:07:56 Of course, it does mean backing up about nine or ten commits and splicing in some changes to the thread structure and interrupt logic. 21:09:29 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:57 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:25 p_l: sophisticated forth implementations don't spend that much time directly twiddling the stack. 21:11:55 Of course, writing such a forth compiler in forth is a bit tricky. 21:12:03 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:33 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:13:21 nyef: lovely 21:13:22 Fare: btw, one of the AMD cpus did support multiple instruction sets (x86 + RISC) 21:14:05 and you could do the switch even in user mode, I think 21:15:31 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:16:20 ok, if no speaker, then what? 21:16:23 a panel? 21:16:27 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has joined #lisp 21:16:29 with whom? 21:16:37 *Fare* feels like cancelling for June. 21:17:48 Or just see if you can line up a pile of lightning talks? 21:18:09 will you give one? 21:18:24 Fare: speaker where for what? 21:18:50 I can probably scare up a lightning talk. 21:19:19 ... On something esoteric, like SBCL/PPC. 21:19:27 p_l: Boston Lisp Meeting, Monday June 28th at MIT. 21:19:46 nyef: have you looked at the latest Windows threading patch? 21:19:54 No, I actually haven't. 21:20:08 Been a bit distracted by my own hack. 21:20:35 I prefer its handling of foreign functions and interrupts to the mainline's (: OTOH, it does mean that foreign code is uninterruptible. 21:20:36 Fare: heh. One of the reasons I wish I had ended at MIT, I could go to BLM :D 21:21:26 p_l: where are you? 21:21:43 we accept people from wherever to speak or attend :) 21:22:03 Fare: Aberdeen, Northern Scotland. And it's bloody impossible for me to fund such a visit :D 21:22:33 (especially since I'd have to arrange US Visa) 21:23:14 dirty poles. We don't want them to come here and steal our polish jokes. 21:25:03 Fare: At least we don't sell allies dime a dozen 21:25:05 ;-) 21:25:19 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:25:45 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 21:25:48 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:05 allies for sale! (parens for free) 21:27:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ac4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:37 leo2007: I think you need to do (pushnew :oct-array *features*) before you compile oct. 21:28:03 ... Wow, yet another nasty scenario: Call out to C, take a signal, handle the signal in Lisp, take a GC while handling the signal, -boom-: The signal context (from C) is treated as if it were subject to lisp GC rules. 21:28:37 nyef: PPC/cheneygc? 21:28:48 PPC/anygc. 21:29:00 no c on ppc, right. 21:29:09 For that matter, anything/cheneygc. 21:29:29 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:30:01 nyef: so before to go into C, some flag must be set? 21:30:31 Fare: No, but the state of the flag that is set must be recorded on a per-interrupt-context basis. 21:30:55 nyef: or shove the interrupt context on the number stack? 21:31:01 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-7.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:31:03 ... Maybe. 21:31:35 I'm actually in the middle of fixing foreign_function_call_active right now, so I'm not going to worry about this for a bit. 21:31:48 alvatar_ [~alvatar@210.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:32:31 -!- alvatar_ [~alvatar@210.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 21:32:46 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:46 leo2007: With that fix, oct seems to work with ccl. 21:35:02 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:35:36 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.129.219] has joined #lisp 21:37:00 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:19 Ah! Nevermind, I see. The contexts aren't stashed for the GC unless they're lisp contexts... or on x86oid systems. 21:37:45 pkhuong, what's the number stack? 21:38:33 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:39:46 leo2007: Just curious. What are you using oct for? 21:40:39 fjs [~chatzilla@ppp-93-104-98-207.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:42:04 -!- fjs [~chatzilla@ppp-93-104-98-207.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:30 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:42:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:24 pnq [asdf@ACA3BFDE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.19] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:47:00 Fare: asdf:component-pathname does not return what i need when there are multiple systems defined in a single .asd file. can you suggest an alternative? 21:47:41 Xach: what fails in such a case??? 21:47:45 -!- JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:18 Fare: it does not return the system file in which the system was defined. 21:50:14 Works for me: (asdf::component-pathname (asdf:find-system :ironclad-tests)) ==> #P"/home/fare/cl/ironclad/ironclad.asd" 21:50:33 after an (asdf:find-system :ironclad) 21:50:48 what does it return instead??? 21:51:37 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:51:38 lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 #P"/Users/xach/quicklisp-controller/vcs-cache/cxml/7d75d8918e377bd92311a8de5b354316/dom/" 21:51:54 (that's for cxml-dom) 21:52:07 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-64.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 21:52:32 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:45 does it provide a :pathname argument? is it a regular .asd file? 21:53:01 where is the source code? 21:53:34 well, cxml.asd DOES provide a :pathname argument. 21:53:40 and then, all bets are off. 21:54:26 it's probably a bug that ASDF doesn't separately store the load-truename of the .asd file. 21:55:00 it's not an ASDF2 issue, though, it's an ASDF issue. 21:55:53 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 21:56:28 Can you suggest a supported solution to get the info I need? 21:56:35 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:45 you need the load-pathname of the original asd file? 21:57:17 Fare: that's what I'd like 21:57:18 Fare: the number stack doesn't contain pointers and the control stack only has boxed values (on !x86ooids) 21:58:07 system-source-file 21:58:15 looks like it might help 21:58:31 I should have looked at the source earlier. 21:58:41 pkhuong: Might be amusing to change that to (on !x86) by moving x86-64 to a precise gc model similar to the ppc. 21:58:46 Fare: thanks, yeah. 21:59:12 pkhuong, so non x86oids have two stacks, forth-like? 21:59:28 Fare: except that it's broken for Xach's usecase 21:59:38 adeht, it is? 21:59:54 adeht: Is it? I get the result I expect. 22:00:04 Fare: At least three stacks. We have a (boxed) control stack, a (boxed) binding stack, and an (unboxed) number stack. 22:00:16 ISTR the number stack also doubling as the alien stack, but could be wrong about that. 22:00:51 Xach: on old asdf 22:01:01 e.g., the one provided with sbcl 22:01:17 adeht, is it fixed with ASDF 2? 22:01:27 Fare: from the looks of it, yes 22:01:32 woot. 22:01:44 I don't remember touching that -- must be a fix by gwking. 22:02:01 I remember someone changed system-source-file from a function to a method. 22:02:21 adeht: i'm using asdf2 for testing 22:02:57 I see 22:04:19 yup gwking commit from Thu Aug 13 18:07:24 2009 -0400 based on patch by gpfeil 22:05:49 mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:53 btw, these :pathname (merge-pathnames ...) should not work on ASDF2... Xach, did you add #. or what? 22:07:52 Fare: latest cxml has #+asdf2 22:08:29 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:55 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:15 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:31 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.147.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:39 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202605.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:48 davazp [~user@13.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:59 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:42 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:32:59 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:05 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:40:15 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:40:19 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:36 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:15 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:14 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA3BFDE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:12 -!- davazp [~user@13.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:53 Fare: cxml was the last system on my list with asdf2 problems 22:45:04 Fare: now that it's fixed, i think i will use asdf2 for quicklisp stuff. 22:45:21 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 If I find other systems with problems, I will let you know. 22:46:10 lispm [~lispm@g224126237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:46:15 thanks 22:46:28 hopefully, I can get asdf2 officially in SBCL by 1.0.40 22:46:59 it's included by ECL, CCL and ABCL already. 22:47:28 asdf2? 22:48:10 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 22:49:17 I believe cracauer is going to push asdf2 to sbcl soon. 22:49:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:50:07 is this channel logged anywhre? 22:50:20 someone answered my yaml question earlier but my client closed without loging 22:52:50 minion: logs? 22:52:50 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 22:52:59 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:22 oh! danke 22:54:24 thank you very much, there it is!@ 22:57:45 davazp [~user@13.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:42 luetooth Hands-free Audiod 22:58:51 oops, ignore ^ 22:58:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:59:09 Fare: Don't forget that asdf2 is also already included in cmucl. 22:59:54 Fare: Any reason to upgrade from asdf 2.000 to something newer? 22:59:57 rtoym: is it? thanks, I won't forget it. 23:00:20 Yeah, it was added in time for the 2010-06 snapshot. 23:00:45 2.001 is nicer to people overriding *default-component-class* 23:01:00 I would be nice if you upgraded to it, indeed. 23:01:16 it's a bug I'd have fixed before 2.000 if it had been reported then. 23:01:29 otherwise, I'm trying to minimize changes. 23:02:08 it's not urgent, since I don't think anyone relies on this functionality -- but if we don't upgrade, no one will. 23:02:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:41 Ok. I'll update with 2.001 (or later) in time for the July snapshot. 23:07:09 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 23:08:49 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 23:11:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:37 rtoym: did you see my question about f2cl's multiple f2cl.asd files? 23:12:53 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.185] has joined #lisp 23:13:49 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:30 ... Signed-word to integer conversion for the first argument to FIXNUMP?!? 23:20:01 so, with nyef and I, that's two lightning talkers. 23:20:03 not much. 23:20:08 mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:04 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E588.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:37 Yay! It -finally- ran through a couple seconds of cold-init before dying this time. 23:22:43 *nyef* tries again with sb-show to try and get more information. 23:22:59 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:31 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:13 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-244290.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:29:25 maxigas [~user@host86-173-4-249.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:33 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224126237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:32:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:42 -!- rgrau_ [~user@101.Red-88-15-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:38 nyef: yeah, I don't think there's a specialised VOP for fixnump/word on any platform. 23:36:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 23:36:25 -!- cp2 [~will@89.46.33.240] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:28 Mmm. I hate being so close to having this working and not having any clue why it blew up. 23:36:50 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:44 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:38:49 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:52 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.119] has joined #lisp 23:39:46 christoph_debian [christoph@sf-ogame.de] has joined #lisp 23:40:32 Ahh, damn. Found another bit I missed. :-/ 23:42:16 -!- davazp [~user@13.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:43:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:44:43 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:48:04 Ooh. It actually says "/entering REPL" before dying horribly. 23:50:52 *nyef* sighs. 23:50:57 Right, control stack scrubbing. 23:52:50 Actually, control stack pointer in general. Eesh.