00:01:27 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:29 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:54 my apologies, but the #darcs channel seems dead, and i'm trying to grab an older version of edi's chunga. anyone know how to use darcs? 00:02:21 i can get the latest, but it doesn't seem that chunga has tags? 00:09:19 palter [~palter@72-254-60-138.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:39 -!- TDT` is now known as TDT 00:11:56 dulouz: that darcs repo is not an official chunga thing, just a mirror of the releases, i believe. 00:12:09 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:01 -!- palter [~palter@72-254-60-138.client.stsn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:12 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:24 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d8189f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 00:13:40 *luis* should probably move those mirrors to git 00:13:41 hmm... so why wouldn't the ldso stubs get linked into the executable (during a cross-compile) when they're clearly in the .o and that gets passed to CC? 00:13:43 there's a svn repo somewhere, but i can't remember the details. 00:14:43 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:09 slyrus: If the linker is eliding unreferenced sections? 00:17:17 nyef: it appears that the trace :encapsulate nil test works on darwin/ppc 00:17:23 yes, but why would that be the case? 00:17:31 (the eliding, that is) 00:17:32 ok thanks for the info. 00:17:48 It's an "optimization", primarily for statically-linked libraries. 00:17:51 Hunh. 00:17:54 the link to "old" versions of chunga doesn't work for me :/ 00:17:56 Oh, I know why it worked. 00:18:04 ok, how do I turn it off and why is it only on for the cross compile? 00:18:05 The instruction that got replaced wasn't a branch. 00:18:08 dulouz: out of curiosity, what are you going to use the old chunga for? 00:18:22 It'll be some linker option, I'm sure. 00:18:53 On the trace thing, have a look at darwin-ppc-os.c or whatever it's called, there's a couple of context accessors that are stubbed out to lose(). 00:19:21 xach: i'm having some weird problem (using hunchentoot 0.15.7 i think) where going http posts isn't working. not sure if it's even chunga related... 00:20:23 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:16 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:57 Maybe add --no-gc-sections to LDFLAGS? 00:22:31 dulouz: the hunchentoot list is pretty helpful. maybe they could help directly with that problem. 00:23:39 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111381 00:24:18 does anyone know why it serialises to ""? 00:24:26 the element is there, I can see it 00:24:38 Xach: ok thanks 00:27:06 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:28:02 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:31:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:48 mathrick: probably attach to your question that it's cxml. (I don't know that) 00:36:30 ah, yes 00:36:34 and I found out wht 00:36:34 mathrick: I see you're calling stp:serialize, that's from the right package? 00:36:36 *why 00:36:41 ah, what was it? 00:36:45 because it's not attached to a STP:DOCUMENT 00:36:50 or rather, wrapped by 00:37:04 but I can't make it wrap by a document because "element already has a parent" 00:37:06 this is annoying 00:38:23 can someone look at this error i get while compiling cl-gtk --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/111378#1 00:40:39 zophy: assertion is used twice in the defcondition form 00:40:49 zophy: I assume you should remove the latter one 00:41:04 zophy: mind you, I have no friggin clue what the thing should do 00:42:01 another function with assertion in it twice does compile 00:42:19 *madnificent* sees that his comment made no sense 00:42:47 zophy: could you try without it? and could you macroexpand the one that does work? 00:43:23 i don't know how to macroexpand 00:43:33 all i have is the compiler output 00:44:22 zophy: (macroexpand '(this is the list which you want to have macro-expanded)) 00:44:34 zophy: it's inheriting from a condition that already defines an ASSERTION slot 00:44:34 zophy: you may want to use macroexpand-1 at some time too 00:44:44 I'd expect that to be the problem 00:44:59 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:45:51 mathrick: may well be right 00:46:26 this is asdf compiling cl-gtk, somewhere deep inside the belly of dependencies... 00:46:36 zophy: what implementation? 00:48:40 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :asdf-install) 00:48:48 (asdf-install:install :cl-gtk2-gtk) 00:48:48 (asdf-install:install :cl-gtk2-cairo) 00:48:48 (asdf-install:install :cl-gtk2-gtkglext) 00:49:08 that is my monster recipe 00:49:16 using sbcl 00:49:17 mathrick: what do you use: sbcl, clisp, ccl? 00:49:20 ah, ok 00:49:32 mathrick: sorry, that was obviously for zophy 00:49:47 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49:54 looks like it's bedtime 00:51:09 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 (asdf-install:install :cl-gtk2-gtk) is where it fails 00:52:26 zophy: odd, last time I played with cl-gtk2, it was fine 00:52:37 also, you're not supposed to asdf:install it, actually 00:52:46 just install :cl-gtk2 00:52:53 it has cl-gtk2-gtk inside already 00:54:25 http://clgtk2.wordpress.com/ is where i got this info 00:54:54 January 8, 2010 kind of a new thing 00:57:20 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442118.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 00:57:24 gee i really want to get a job programming lisp on Wallstreet 00:58:20 you notice they left the (nut) out of that address 01:04:08 pnq [asdf@ACA516C2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 01:06:05 (Programming lisp on a Wallstreet isn't as hard as finding that particular model of powerbook in the first place.) 01:07:45 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:25 what caused the comment about wallstreet? 01:11:32 something i said 01:11:44 zophy: and why did you say that? 01:11:50 i want to get a job programming lisp 01:11:52 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:06 on "wallstreet" 01:12:49 *nyef* has been hacking ppc mac crap for the past few days. 01:13:19 i went off on a tangent with cl-gtk2 01:15:25 zophy: my recommendation then is to start a financial analysis business ;P 01:15:47 though you might find OCaml, Haskell and Scheme jobs there 01:18:56 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-105-9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:20:07 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:20:10 ooh, the football game was a draw, 1-1 01:20:11 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 01:20:43 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:20:50 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:51 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:21:11 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:18 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442118.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:43 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-181-241-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:33:57 emma [~em@24.199.89.228] has joined #lisp 01:33:58 -!- emma [~em@24.199.89.228] has quit [Changing host] 01:33:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:38:13 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:46:44 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:52 Xach: If you're interested, I'm volunteering to get your stuff working with cmucl. 01:47:39 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:48:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:49:38 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:49:53 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.144.99] has joined #lisp 01:50:32 Has anyone here ever had reason to call APPLY indirectly, via FUNCALL, APPLY, and so on? 01:51:17 i haven't, but i'd be interested in seeing code that did (for entertainment purposes only) 01:52:04 asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.177] has joined #lisp 01:52:46 I'm wondering whether it's worth making a special form. 01:52:49 Meh. Probably not. 01:53:13 (funcall 'apply 'list 1 2 (list 3)) 01:53:21 quotemstr: you implementing your own lisp? 01:53:29 toast`: Have been for a while. 01:53:45 ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.90] has joined #lisp 01:53:54 rtoym: i suspect 'mstr means a use other than golfing 01:54:22 also, shouldn't it be #'list, not 'list? 01:54:28 I was answering your question, not his. :-) 01:54:42 oh, i was interested in a non-golf answer 01:54:54 the existance of such code would amuse me greatly 01:55:50 Golf? 01:56:31 rtoym: oh, cool 01:56:38 quotemstr: code that serves no useful purpose other than doing something silly 01:56:48 something silly in particular, rather 01:56:50 Ah, contrived code. 01:56:54 Xach: No idea what you're doing, but since you tried, I thought I could help out a bit. 01:57:16 rtoym: do you have a cmucl with that *d-p-d* fix in it? i have something you could try 01:57:54 Xach: Yes, I have a build with the fixes. 01:59:12 Don't see any reason to write (funcall 'apply ...) since that's the same as (apply ...). But maybe (funcall f ...) where f could be apply or some other function. 01:59:47 I could see passing apply to one of the map functions. 01:59:56 ah, true 02:00:13 i think i saw some code in haskell doing something clever, using ($) 02:00:56 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDAADBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:45 Also, is it all right to optimize away simple variable references? 02:01:59 In say, (progn a b c), is it safe to optimize away the references to 'a' and 'b'? 02:02:09 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:18 Granted, that might result in some code that would raise an error before continuing without a hitch, but that doesn't seem like a huge problem. 02:02:25 should be 02:02:36 is your lisp generally following common lisp? 02:02:59 toast`: In terms of evaluation model, sure, though it has Clojure-like ubiquitous destructuring. 02:03:15 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAB9EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:24 yeah, i often miss pattern matching from ML 02:03:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:05:03 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:06:03 toast`: It should be possible to implement it with a macro package on top of CL without too much difficulty. 02:06:15 toast`: That is, you can use CL as a sort of kernel lisp. 02:06:17 minion: fare-matcher? 02:06:18 fare-matcher: fare-matcher extends CL with ML-like pattern matching in an extensible way. http://www.cliki.net/fare-matcher 02:12:39 quotemstr: In (progn a b c), are a, b, c arbitrary forms or what? 02:12:56 No, exactly that. 02:13:01 Unadorned symbols. 02:15:08 Seems reasonable to elide them. 02:19:15 -!- Algid [~endgame@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:19:40 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:21:57 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:22:23 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as Wolf 02:22:53 -!- Wolf is now known as Guest58636 02:23:58 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.124.50] has joined #lisp 02:23:58 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.124.50] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:58 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:24:03 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:29 quotemstr: so, doing this as a learning exercise, or do you have a particular use in mind? 02:24:37 toast`: It's a long story. 02:24:51 toast`: Short version: small size budget. ECL isn't small enough. 02:24:51 -!- Guest58636 is now known as PuffTheMagic 02:25:02 cool 02:25:19 how small? 02:25:23 600k 02:25:35 wow. ecl is bigger than 600K? 02:25:55 2.3M on my system 02:26:04 quotemstr: have you checked thin lisp? 02:26:14 600k for the *whole executable*. 02:26:21 Of which the Lisp interpreter is only a part. 02:27:06 yeah. ecl is full CL right? 02:27:10 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:43 things like a standard reader, format, streams, etc. could add up i guess 02:27:45 toast: Most of ecl is in a shareable library, and yes, it is a full CL. 02:28:11 Have you tried ecl with static linkage? 02:28:38 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 02:29:03 ECL is C based right? a good optimizer should prune when you statically link 02:29:10 good linker i mean 02:29:34 and be careful to avoid eval! 02:29:48 toast`: still, even LLVM might not be able to prune it all, and it has afaik currently the best static optimizer 02:30:12 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:27 i was in err initially -- i should have said the linker 02:30:30 (Intel's has bigger chances of eating all of memory in final optimization, GCC... I'd fear that one) 02:30:43 any decent linker will leave out unnecessary obj files. 02:31:02 oh damn. now I remember, ppc-emulated sbcl won't ever work. 02:31:25 toast`: we are talking about pruning at code block level, not object file dependency 02:31:47 but at least the cross-compile should be possible (7-10 minutes compile + time to copy over vs. 35 minutes native-ppc build) 02:32:31 bah. that's a pain. 02:33:18 nyef: am I supposed to do anything else with the trace :encapsulate nil stuff? 02:33:51 slyrus: Just the two accessors for the counter register and the other one. 02:34:00 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-105-9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:12 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has joined #lisp 02:34:45 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:38 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@cpe-174-100-235-249.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:45 slyrus: why emulated ppc won't work? 02:37:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:37:12 p_l: 02:37:18 "precise exceptions" aren't supported 02:37:28 meaning you can't muck with a context, I think 02:37:34 p_l: The emulator doesn't give the faulting program counter, basically. 02:37:47 or at least won't let you change it 02:38:35 oh, there are precise exceptions on PPC? 02:40:03 "precise exceptions" is a bit of a misnomer, given the technical term for floating point exceptions, but... 02:40:03 just not on emulated ppc 02:40:08 yeah... 02:40:47 Their dynamic translator sucks with respect to the usual guarantees on exception behavior, even for simple traps. 02:41:50 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:42:18 On an amusing side-note, it appears that OpenBSD doesn't actually support floating-point exceptions on ppc -at all-. 02:42:23 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:43:08 nyef: I wonder how it goes on Alpha, which afaik didn't have any kind of precise exception except (pun intended) for certain specific places. 02:43:26 Don't know. 02:43:56 I'm actually thinking of hacking up a version of SBCL for my G5 with some of the SBCL/Alpha memory model quirks. 02:44:04 nyef: nearly every instruction was accompanied by warning "Program Counter might not point to instruction that caused the exception" 02:45:23 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:25 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 02:46:03 nyef: return &context->uc_mcontext->PPC_DARWIN_REGIFY(ss).PPC_DARWIN_REGIFY(ctr); 02:46:22 Ouch. Really? 02:46:26 "REGIFY"? 02:46:32 and return &context->uc_mcontext->PPC_DARWIN_REGIFY(ss).PPC_DARWIN_REGIFY(cr); 02:46:51 That's... pretty bad. Thanks. 02:47:27 I just cargo-culted the others. I can rebuild the runtime with that. Haven't done a full build yet, but since we used to lose anyway, I don't know how to test it. 02:47:42 I'd be happy with a compile, I think. 02:47:49 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:48:02 It's one of those areas that really is underexploited, and was more used on cmucl. 02:48:54 mind you this stuff all changed on 10.5 and my ppc box is on 10.4. It _should_ work on 10.5 though. 02:49:29 spinning a full build. let me know in 35 minutes if you want me to test anything. 02:49:39 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 02:51:29 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 02:54:27 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:59:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-95-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:38 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:11 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-95-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:01:42 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: badtime] 03:04:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:07:18 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 03:09:18 somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.217] has joined #lisp 03:11:02 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66735e-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 03:14:56 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:45 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:06 nyef: full build done. anything you want me to test? 03:16:46 only 24 minutes. not too bad. 03:20:39 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:22 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:52 maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has joined #lisp 03:28:01 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:29:20 One question 03:29:25 Some structure defined as below: 03:29:26 (defstruct cell 03:29:26 DNA 03:29:26 RNA 03:29:26 MtDNA) 03:29:26 Can Instantiated by prepending make- to the structure name?; Like so: 03:29:28 (make-cell :DNA dna :RNA rna :MtDNA mtdna) 03:31:10 yes 03:31:14 -!- dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:58 Incredible. 8 lines of irc, 0 verb. 03:32:02 clhs defstruct 03:32:17 damn 03:32:32 make-cell 03:33:04 wow while lisp is cool 03:33:42 -!- pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:33:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:34:54 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.133] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 03:35:38 pnq_ [asdf@AC83ECA9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:39 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA516C2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:37:34 -!- pnq_ [asdf@AC83ECA9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:11 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-197-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:52 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:08 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:51:22 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 03:52:45 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:54 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:04:27 pkhuong: ;p 04:15:49 -!- techsilo [techsilo@cpe-69-205-33-111.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:30:48 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 04:32:36 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 04:34:53 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:09 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:14 -!- ludwig- [~ludwig-@adsl-69-235-210-227.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ludwig-] 04:45:30 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 04:49:55 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 04:58:00 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:04:05 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 05:10:05 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: going to try to be productive...] 05:11:13 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.82.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:47 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 05:20:58 pnq [asdf@ACA35455.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:21:36 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 05:34:01 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 05:34:38 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:35:15 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.144.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:38 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:41:19 huh. looks like the git mirror missed the deleting of some files in cvs long ago. 05:41:42 minion: memo for antifuchs: ping me about git mirror issues 05:41:43 Remembered. I'll tell antifuchs when he/she/it next speaks. 05:45:00 hmm... any chances that the CVS repo gets replaced with Git? 05:45:20 wallabi [wallabi@sverige.freeshell.org] has joined #lisp 05:45:24 ls 05:46:22 wallabi: permission denied. 05:47:33 p_l: yes, that would be nice 05:50:25 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:47 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@cpe-174-100-235-249.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 06:02:29 ... wtf Chief Psychological Officer... 06:08:52 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-38-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:57 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-95-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:13:08 -!- somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:17:15 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:21:55 Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has joined #lisp 06:24:15 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:28:27 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:32:26 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:34:13 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:35:09 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:36:39 is there any easy way to check if my sbcl install has unicode and threading support? 06:37:00 <_3b`> *features* 06:37:24 (intersection '(:sb-unicode :sb-thread) *features*) 06:37:44 thanks 06:38:36 *stassats* learned a new function: SET-EXCLUSIVE-OR 06:39:30 is Hunchentoot the standard webapp toolkit/framework, or are there others to consider? 06:39:39 <_3b`> both? 06:39:40 it is 06:40:08 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:22 inklesspen: de facto it is such 06:40:35 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:40:55 <_3b`> more of an 'http server' than a 'framework' though 06:41:21 UCW and its various forks/descendants have their own server and some people use their own mechanisms (i.e. FastCGI, tpd2) 06:42:45 well, if you needed to write, say, slashdot from scratch, would you choose Hunchentoot or something else? 06:43:06 or just ignore the libraries and build up your own thing on bare sockets? 06:43:31 <_3b`> hunchentoot would be a reasonable choice 06:43:35 ok 06:43:39 inklesspen: assuming the same amount of traffic? 06:43:50 xD 06:43:57 <_3b`> well, it might need tuned for /. level traffic 06:43:57 nah 06:44:47 for /. kind of traffic, I'd bail oout and grab LFE, Yaws and few Sun T2 06:44:58 I do like me some erlang 06:45:16 i didn't think LFE was ready for serious use, though 06:45:20 <_3b`> if the goal is to be able to get websites running quickly, something like UCW/lol/wtf or weblocks might be worth learning 06:45:41 <_3b`> not sure any of those are well enough documented to get the first few tries running quickly though :p 06:46:29 *p_l* wants to see drewc's FTW 06:46:47 <_3b`> oh yeah, guess i got that backwards :p 06:47:04 /. was actually not the best analogy. I'm actually building a scheduled, configurable web scraper that outputs RSS/Atom feeds. 06:47:11 I know how to do it in Erlang, I think. 06:47:20 But I've been looking for a lisp project for a while 06:47:29 and I figured this might as well be it 06:47:42 *_3b`* might just let apache or whatever serve static files for that 06:47:45 WTF was testing framework :D 06:47:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:47:59 _3b`: but first you have to generate those files 06:48:00 (fitting name, don't you think?) 06:48:10 <_3b`> i guess it depends on if you scrape on demand or scheduled 06:48:16 and i want a web interface for configuring it 06:48:45 <_3b`> yeah, i guess any of the above would be reasonable for that part 06:48:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:49:13 inklesspen: fusss had similar thing, except he was using hunchentoot + FastCGI to serve data 06:49:33 the FastCGI part was there so he could "redirect" nginx to static files 06:52:31 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:52:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:53:07 -!- _8david` [~user@pD95410A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:53:09 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:53:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:29 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA35455.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:57:40 -!- wallabi [wallabi@sverige.freeshell.org] has quit [Quit: Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?] 07:10:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:11:02 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-38-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:15 god dammit 07:13:17 how best to use closer-mop with ccl? 07:13:57 I am seeing this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/224840? 07:14:33 don't use closer-mop and cl packages at the same time 07:17:45 stassats: seems I have to use closer-common-lisp if I need COMMON-LISP, right? 07:18:00 leo2007: right 07:18:25 it's short nickname is c2cl 07:21:02 stassats: thanks. is it advisable to load closer-mop all the time if I am using ccl? 07:21:13 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:21:14 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 07:21:50 if you want to use it 07:22:40 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 07:24:24 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:24:37 "clbuild check" says it doesn't have a lisp to bootstrap from although I have installed SBCL fine I suppose 07:26:20 stassats: I mean in general considering this package provides more MOP features. 07:27:11 it is not needed in sbcl for example, since all the features are implemented by sbcl. 07:27:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:27:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.55] has joined #lisp 07:28:51 good morning! 07:28:51 antifuchs, memo from slyrus: ping me about git mirror issues 07:29:00 hey antifuchs 07:29:03 hi slyrus (: 07:29:12 two things: 07:29:14 howdy antifuchs 07:29:42 1. can you decrease the sync interval for the git mirror and 2. there are some files that are deleted in sf.net's cvs, but not in the git repo 07:29:54 ouch 07:30:28 re. the first: decreasing the sync interval is hard to do safely, unfortunately... same with the suggestion to listen for mails from sbcl-commits 07:31:53 ok. then can we just make the git repo the canonical home for the source? :) 07:32:00 that, I can make happen 07:32:22 can you point me to the commit where things started to diverge? 07:32:31 yeah, it's back in 2006 :) 07:33:49 ah ((: 07:33:56 I thought the converter messed up recently (: 07:34:10 2006 sounds like some older git bug. phew (: 07:35:26 0.9.16.7 there were some files that were renamed and the old ones didn't get deleted 07:35:29 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:36:04 that was my 36th birthday... wtf was I doing trying to clean up the darwin builds? :) 07:36:10 haha 07:36:15 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:36:50 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 07:36:50 see, that was git punishing you for abnormal behavior (: 07:37:42 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38:03 these files are, I think, gone in cvs, but still in the git repo: ppc-darwin-dlshim.c ppc-darwin-dlshim.h ppc-darwin-langinfo.c ppc-darwin-langinfo.h x86-darwin-langinfo.c 07:40:55 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:43:08 jan247 [~jan247@180.191.49.12] has joined #lisp 07:43:08 -!- jan247 [~jan247@180.191.49.12] has quit [Changing host] 07:43:08 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:44:00 mega1 [~quassel@netacc-gpn-5-4-121.pool.telenor.hu] has joined #lisp 07:45:43 fiveop [~fiveop@g229143183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:48:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:01 ok, I am seeing a few more files that are in git and not in cvs 07:49:45 ah, actually it's just ir1-step.lisp 07:52:08 yeah, recently deleted files seem ok 07:52:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:52:36 excellent. then I'll just figure out how to safely delete these files so that cvsimport can pick them up, and do it (: 07:52:56 (ir1-step was deleted in september 2006, apparently) 07:53:10 *antifuchs* mumbles "ancient git bug" 08:02:42 there was src/compiler/integer-tran.lisp as well, I think 08:02:55 oh, no, that's in CVS too (just completely unused) 08:05:55 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:11 OK 08:10:04 http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git?a=commit;h=03833f4cc9997c5df2c2ceeeb45936c91cabb747 syncs the two trees up neatly again 08:10:36 there is no corresponding (recent) cvs change to this git commit, but I hope the commit message explains things well enough. 08:13:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:15:03 great. the dlshim and the darwin-langinfo shim are now fully gone. 08:15:22 as am I. good night. 08:15:28 good night! 08:15:36 and thanks for telling me about this (: 08:15:46 (I'll try and figure out a way to make the conversion trigger faster) 08:18:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:02 -!- mega1 [~quassel@netacc-gpn-5-4-121.pool.telenor.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:26 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:41:19 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-234-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:02 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:38 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 08:47:52 -!- maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:41 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:50 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 08:54:07 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:55:52 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-19-238.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:09 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:34 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:02:25 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-44-216.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:06:11 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 09:13:03 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:13:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:18:03 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:18:53 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDAADBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:24 Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 09:25:18 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:03 good day everyone 09:26:09 we fe[nl]ix 09:26:16 hi Blkt 09:31:29 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:32:21 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:32ea:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 Hmm, in parenscript is there a way to get apply to do a proper method call? 09:34:28 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 09:37:37 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:38:59 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:16 what is the definition of "gray stream"? 09:47:06 They're a user extensible stream class invented by a guy named Gray. 09:48:41 How can I see if a common lisp implementation have that? 09:48:59 *features* should have something grayish in it. 09:49:09 Otherwise you could use find-class. 09:50:35 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:50:43 do you know if ccl has it? 09:51:09 No, but I assume that some nice literate person has written down somewhere about it. 09:51:18 Possibly in the ccl documentation ... 09:51:52 Zhivago: thanks. yes it is in ccl documentation. 09:53:32 leo2007: every decent CL implementation has gray streams 09:53:40 prxq [~mommer@f050239147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:46 hello 09:55:49 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-22-232.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:00:05 hi prxq 10:00:23 does gray stream has anything to do with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code? 10:00:29 have* 10:01:29 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 10:01:55 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:14 nope, not the same guy 10:02:41 thanks 10:04:47 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 10:07:08 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:08:33 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-190-86.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:55 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:10:52 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:09 lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:00 when I run (cl-glut-examples:gears) in slime repl I can't see any GEARS? I'm running ccl1.5 on OSX. 10:20:42 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@104.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:28 aw [~aw@89.204.153.67] has joined #lisp 10:26:43 <_3b`> leo2007: does it even create a window? 10:26:57 *_3b`* thought it didn't work on ccl/osx at all these days 10:27:24 <_3b`> i guess it might depend on osx and cl-opengl version though 10:28:30 _3b`: it opens a new icon on the doc see http://imagebin.org/101113 10:28:48 the right-most one 10:28:58 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 10:29:16 _3b`: I just found that the window is open but it is not brought to the front so I missed it. 10:29:44 it was broken some time ago but now it is working with ccl1.5. 10:30:03 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:30:43 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:56 <_3b`> so it is working once you found the window? 10:31:01 <_3b`> what osx version? 10:31:05 I use rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7 (Mac OS X 10.6.3) 10:32:30 _3b`: seems to be fixed here http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/527 10:32:59 <_3b`> no, i was expecting a different problem 10:33:29 <_3b`> usually, ccl grabs the first thread for its own use, but osx objects to calling any GL code from any other thread, which causes problems 10:34:36 I remembered that too. but now it seems no problem of that sort; let me run all the examples. 10:36:36 all of them working: http://imagebin.org/101115 10:37:36 <_3b`> hmm, i wonder what changed 10:38:43 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:40:16 <_3b`> leo2007: you are using current cl-opengl from github? 10:40:30 yes 10:41:24 -!- aw [~aw@89.204.153.67] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 10:42:56 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:43:57 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 10:44:51 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-026-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:53 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-125.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:49:31 is there a place to find all the interesting common lisp libraries? cl-user.net seems to have most libs but not all. 10:50:42 that depends on what is interesting 10:51:47 ignore interesting for now. 10:53:55 then, no, there is no single place 10:54:07 *_3b`* just uses google 10:55:28 between cliki, cl-user.net and common-lisp.net you go very far. There is also the CMU AI repository. 10:56:18 i think there are very, very few libs that do not appear in at least one of those four sites 10:57:11 I have bordeaux-fft series etc. not appearing in those places. 10:57:48 cliki is a wiki, you know 10:58:04 *_3b`* sees both of those on cliki 10:58:21 yes, both of them appear on cliki 10:58:59 ahh, sorry 11:01:12 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.102.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:05:10 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:10:26 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:11:43 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.102.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:18:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:21:41 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:25:34 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.102.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:26:19 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-101-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:32ea:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:03 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:674c:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 11:27:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:47:13 *Xach* feels the excitement 11:47:52 Who wants to try my silly library thing in a partially-functional preview state? 11:49:21 Xach: that sounds awfully specific (-: 11:49:38 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 11:49:51 Xach: what does it do? 11:50:26 prxq: it's a little like clbuild, but (someday) easier to use. 11:50:42 and more available. 11:50:46 Anyone knows if and when structures are stack-allocatable? 11:51:04 Xach: sounds interesting! 11:51:16 Xach: is it using asdf2? (: 11:52:11 No, asdf2 doesn't work with cxml, so it's a nonstarter. 11:52:32 antifuchs: rad photo, by the way. 11:52:39 thanks! 11:52:57 hm seems to be that the slots have to be typed to value that can itself be stack-allocated, i.e. no pointers 11:53:04 If I saw anyone else doing that, I would loathe them as a dirty damn hipster. You made it look awesome instead. 11:53:35 which I guess makes sense as sbcl's gc cannot deal with pointers on the stack or something? 11:53:46 -!- hanneso [hannes@h192n3c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:58 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:54:58 hanneso [hannes@h151n2c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:31 Any takers? 11:57:26 this makes me very happy, xach (: 11:58:02 I've a presentation to prepare for tomorrow (a little slime + emacs feature show for the vienna lisper group), otherwise I'd have a look 11:58:19 That you're not a dirty hipster, or that I have a library thing in the pipeline? 11:58:42 Seems like making the constructor be inlined made it allocate on the stack for me 11:58:49 yippiieh 11:59:17 both! but primarily, the former (: 11:59:22 Xach: if you send it my way, I'll gladly try it out later tonight 12:00:32 Is C-c M-d working for you? 12:01:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:02:08 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06:46 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:08:08 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:25 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-50-156.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:59 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:15:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:20 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:27:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:28:49 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-105-38.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:30:16 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:31:28 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:03 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:07 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-105-38.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-109-224.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:35:44 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:28 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:44:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:15 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-109-224.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:49 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:07 -!- erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:53:59 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:16 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:43 -!- moeffju[ZzZz] is now known as moeffju 12:56:16 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 12:56:16 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 12:56:16 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 12:59:06 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-50-156.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:01:44 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`away 13:04:10 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 13:06:34 -!- spec`away [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:06:57 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:06:58 Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:51 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:08 G'morning all. 13:08:33 hi nyef 13:13:54 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.211] has joined #lisp 13:14:02 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:36 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-026-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:38 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-026-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:48 morning' 13:20:01 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:21:28 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:59 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-80-164.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:00 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-80-164.washdc.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:22:01 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:22:43 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-80-164.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:25:35 *lichtblau* is increasingly happy with his mutant linedit spinoff 13:25:58 Too bad nikodemus has disappeared again... 13:29:48 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:27 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 13:32:02 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.128.190] has joined #lisp 13:33:56 Xach: just pushed: merge-pathnames is now #-asdf2, and the silly at-system-definition-load-time dependency on closure-common is gone. 13:35:16 hooray 13:35:26 lichtblau: thanks. 13:36:26 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:46 maden [~maden@dsl-151-42.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 13:39:24 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:41 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:43:41 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 13:45:12 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 13:49:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:674c:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:15 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:03 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:10:20 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 14:13:54 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:15:26 lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:31 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:37 Xach: have you gotten around to summarize the results of your pathnames poll? 14:19:24 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:19 varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:30:32 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:31:18 *quotemstr* gets rid of parallel binding as a special form. 14:31:59 quotemstr: What? -Serial- binding is the one to get rid of as a special form. 14:32:23 nyef: Serial binding is easy. Just cons another value cell onto the environment. 14:32:34 You can implement parallel-binding on top of that with a macro. 14:32:39 rmarynch [~roman@bras-5-ge-62.122.200.226.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 14:32:45 Hello all 14:32:46 Heh. Fair enough. 14:32:49 Hello rmarynch. 14:33:15 quotemstr: if that's what you're interested in, eliminate everything but lambda, or lambda and single-binding let. 14:33:31 pkhuong: You forgot setq. 14:33:50 In SBCL, is that possible to suspend GC and use the object's address in memory as its unique ID? 14:34:02 rmarynch: Why do you want to do that? 14:34:06 rmarynch: Yes, but not for long. 14:34:07 quotemstr: that's orthogonal to binding, and not even necessary. 14:34:20 because I need unique IDs 14:34:29 rmarynch: Hash-table? 14:34:30 rmarynch: hash table. 14:34:35 Why do you say to keep parallel-let and not sequential-let? 14:34:44 Actually, I'm collapsing both down to single-binding let. 14:34:45 *_3b`* was too slow to suggest a hash table :( 14:34:54 _3b`: You can still do it. 14:34:56 Do you mean sxhash? 14:35:11 quote: Well, you can implement a parallel-let with a sequential-let using one temporary variable per binding, but is it worthwhile? 14:35:14 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@222.65.65.173] has joined #lisp 14:35:15 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:36:09 Zhivago: I'm *already* creating a temporary list of values and sequentially binding them, but just inside the implementation of a special form; why not do the same thing with a macro? 14:36:26 rmarynch: No, you add the objects to a hash-table (or two, if you need a bidirectional mapping), and use that to associate unique ids. 14:37:02 quotemstr: Well, it depends on how well you can control the lifetime of those variables, I guess. 14:37:14 nyef: this is too slow. And, isn't hash-table based on sxhash? 14:37:45 Zhivago: Besides, even my slow, stupid compiler should be able to detect whether let-clauses actually depend on each other. :) 14:37:53 hash tables additionally deal with collisions 14:38:14 <_3b`> rmarynch: i guess *print-circle* won't work either? :p 14:38:50 rmarynch: too slow how and no 14:39:25 EQ hash tables shouldn't involve sxhash. 14:39:38 so, you suggest having object as a key in a hash table, and ID as a value? 14:41:23 And vice-versa, if you need reverse lookup. 14:41:27 this way I will have linear IDs sequence: 1,2 ... 14:41:42 or use an extra slot in the objects. 14:42:02 Your id assignment policy for you to determine, as it happens on a hash miss. 14:42:10 pkhuong: I do not want to tweak nodes.lisp for this 14:42:13 You can also use a "weak" hash table of some sort. 14:43:46 Also, another question (maybe stupid...) Is there any way to get the slots names list for a given CL structure? 14:43:56 rmarynch: MOP. 14:44:30 Yes, but it gets complicated. 14:44:56 nyef: what do you mean? 14:45:21 Have an apropos for... "dsd". 14:45:21 prxq: Not publicly, no. 14:45:37 ("direct-slot-definition") 14:46:18 rmarynch: class-slots? 14:47:32 p_l: I will read CLHS 'structures' chapter again, maybe there is some info as well 14:49:46 lichtblau: poke? 14:50:00 lichtblau: are you the right person to tell about plexippus bugs? 14:50:01 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:14 -!- rmarynch [~roman@bras-5-ge-62.122.200.226.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:41 lichtblau: http://paste.lisp.org/display/111396 14:56:39 ikki [~ikki@189.247.7.101] has joined #lisp 14:57:03 lichtblau: granted, it's an absolutely useless behaviour the spec mandates, but still it seems to imply it ought to succeed 15:00:55 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:03:03 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:03:49 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:34 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e50.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:30 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.245.244] has joined #lisp 15:13:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:13:42 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.246.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:28 sellout [~greg@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:37 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.185.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:17:02 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.73.140] has joined #lisp 15:18:07 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@222.65.65.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:03 Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 tcr1 [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has joined #lisp 15:31:13 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:45 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-103-19.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:03 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:15 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:25 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-111-40.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:41 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-122-1.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:31 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:50 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-214-76.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:55 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm60.gamma88.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:35:55 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-125.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:44:33 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest69032 15:45:58 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:20 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:34 Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has joined #lisp 15:53:19 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:19 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 morning 15:55:28 hello slyrus 15:55:34 -!- gz_ is now known as gz 15:55:54 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:56:46 hi slyrus. What's up? 15:57:09 benny` [~user@i577A3AA4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:21 hey Krystof. not too much, finally cleaned up some loose ends yesterday. and you? 15:57:55 i've decided that i really like the launchpad interfaces for keeping track of things that need to get done 15:58:10 -!- benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:18 too much to do! But not too many complaints 15:58:24 do you still do any R? 15:58:40 -!- Guest69032 [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:49 launchpad more than org-mode? Heretic! 15:59:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59:23 no, I haven't been doing much R lately, although I do have a couple things that I've been thinking of doing in both R and incanter for comparion's sake. 15:59:29 (you know, real data :) ) 15:59:58 I feel like I've moved into the 21st century -- instead of prosper, pstricks, matlab and latex, I have beamer, pgf, R and xelatex 16:00:12 Okay, as of not very long ago, I'm only one requirement away from shifting to my G5 as a primary system. 16:00:14 so LFE brings lispiness to the Erlang VM. are there any libraries that bring Erlang's lightweight process actor model to Common Lisp? 16:00:22 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 16:00:24 And that requirement is threaded SBCL. >:-) 16:01:06 Krystof: instead of SBCL? and you call me a heretic? bah! 16:01:23 slyrus: I'd never heard of incanter; I look at one of its components, http://www.jfree.org/jfreechart/, and what do I see in the first screenshot? A pie chart 16:01:47 slyrus: oh, there's the odd bit of sbcl around. Look, I fixed the manual's index this month, that's got to be good 16:01:49 inklesspen: there have been some attempts, some of them called erlisp (including one aborted early by yours truly), and erlang-in-lisp was one written for XCVB amongst others 16:01:56 it might be the most advanced one 16:02:04 go nyef 16:02:05 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-33.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 inklesspen: http://www.cliki.net/CLERIC 16:02:30 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:02:46 Krystof: I had SBCL generating my pdfs that were then fed into beamer for presentations back when I was doing my thesis :) 16:02:47 slyrus: when you were using R, did you manage to not throw your computer across the room in frustration at its debugger? 16:02:55 maden_ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:03:04 slyrus: actually I was using beamer when you were doing your thesis too; I exaggerate a bit for effect :-) 16:03:27 xelatex and R are in-the-last-12-months, though 16:03:30 yeah, I was hoping blindglobe was going to rewrite R in CL. doesn't seem to have happened though. 16:03:34 Martiini [~Miranda@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:03:35 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 16:03:36 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-229.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:31 sglinux [~sglinux@cm60.gamma88.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:04:33 inklesspen: also http://www.cliki.net/cl-muproc and http://www.cliki.net/Philip-Jose 16:05:18 Krystof: have you felt the need for tighter interoperability between R and SBCL yet? 16:05:56 slyrus: not immediately. tighter interop between R and emacs, yes 16:06:11 you use ESS I take it? 16:06:14 yes 16:06:31 but that's missing the nice things like usable inspector, debugger, and the like 16:06:51 M-. 16:07:03 -!- sellout [~greg@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:08:07 -!- Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:14 mathrick: the XPath expression evaluates fine. The call to ALL-NODES fails, because a string isn't a node set. 16:08:31 lichtblau: yeah, I've just noticed that 16:08:46 *mathrick* thinks the XPath spec is dumb 16:10:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:11:47 Krystof: just rig R up to SBCL and write a proper mode for climacs :) 16:12:46 lichtblau: would it be possible to add something like string*() that'd return a string set when called on a node set? 16:13:16 xpath:string-value (?) 16:13:20 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-93-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:28 oh, a string _set_ 16:13:34 yeah 16:13:42 picking the first string is useless 16:14:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:14:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@124.13.124.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:26 I think you're looking for XPath 2.0, but Plexippus implements 1.0. 16:16:04 possibly, I only know as much xpath as I needed to get by 16:16:21 lichtblau: any plans to make it support 2.0 then? 16:16:23 But to answer your question, you can indeed write your own XPath functions, so mathrick:string() would be possible. 16:16:41 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:09 lichtblau: and then it'd recognise it if I said "mathrick:string(//*/@href)"? 16:18:00 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:18:38 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.89] has joined #lisp 16:18:41 http://common-lisp.net/project/plexippus-xpath/atdoc/index.html#d0d0e0e1e0e3 has an example 16:20:29 aha, thanks 16:21:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:37 hmm, lichtblau: (with-namespaces (("my" *my-namespace*)) (evaluate "add-quotes(//some-element)" doc)) <-- shouldn't that be my:add-quotes()? 16:23:50 lichtblau: also a tiny buglet, that page has No Title 16:24:34 ... Why do we have so many non-descriptor regs on ppc? Do we actually need all of them? 16:26:05 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 16:28:19 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:22 lichtblau: the docstring for XPATH:STRING-VALUE has "@short{Returns the value of XPath number() function.}", it should say string() instead, no? 16:28:37 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:23 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 MORE PROOFREADING 16:30:25 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.128.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:20 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 16:35:16 lichtblau: indeed it seems like the XPath 2.0 semantics of / would allow me to do just what I wanted, so any plans to support 2.0? :) 16:36:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:10 no plans. The work/benefit ratio for the 2.0 standards is rather high. 16:43:04 I see 16:47:07 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 16:51:19 -!- Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:52:03 Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:59:09 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:08 ULTRAMAN [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:02:46 -!- Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:11 Krystof: do you have any opinions on the possible straetgies for fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/592425 ? 17:04:20 -!- prip [~foo@host231-125-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:18 I think I'd try (3) first 17:05:30 or maybe I'd try to find some (haha) Apple Documentation 17:06:10 http://openradar.appspot.com/7209349 17:07:43 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 Yeah, that's the one rme pointed me to the other day. 17:08:25 this doesn't seem to strictly be true, as a simple example calling dlopen an another thread does work. 17:09:38 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 17:11:01 Is it doing a stack bounds check or something? 17:12:31 possibly... 17:13:12 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2002F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:36 prip [~foo@host231-125-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:13:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:38 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 17:17:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:50 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:37 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:27:10 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 17:29:53 lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:35 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:41 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.94] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:44:29 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:20 fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:18 JoesphL0t [~JoesphL0t@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 17:47:34 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:42 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:20 hmm... linking against the CoreFoundation framework seems to fix the problem. cost/benefit analysis anyone? 17:49:48 lots of stuff uses CF 17:50:37 should we make this possible or continue to have things die in unexpected ways because we don't want to be bothered to link against the cf framework? 17:50:55 are there reasons *not* to link to cf? 17:52:15 toast-prime [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:16 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:16 -!- toast-prime is now known as toast` 17:53:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:37 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-15-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:54:19 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:54:23 c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.155] has joined #lisp 17:54:26 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:40 kpreid: I assume we're talking about only linking to CF on darwin? 17:54:47 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:47 surely 17:55:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:53 well, and surely when we say darwin we really mean macos... not sure if one can still build a darwin kernel that isn't macos. if so, would those have CF? 17:55:59 yes 17:56:05 CF is open source and in darwin, iirc 17:56:09 slyrus: there's a CF-lite that has most of CF, in darwin 17:56:12 ok, there goes that objection 17:56:36 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-33.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:45 i wonder if this means that the cl-opengl stuff will work now. that would be nice. 17:58:14 there are open-source darwin projects like PureDarwin, which uses CF-lite 17:58:24 but CF-lite appears to have CFInitialize 17:58:36 slyrus: cl-opengl works now on ccl. 17:59:19 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-026-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:12 apparently none of the lightweight-process actor-model libraries are actively used and developed 18:01:13 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:14 ah well 18:02:22 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 hello 18:03:03 lichtblau: is clim-gtkairo supposed to be working these days? it's been a while since I've tried it. 18:03:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:54 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111403 18:03:56 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:46 inklesspen: I thought cl-muproc was, but I haven't used it in quite a while, so I guess it could be dead now. 18:05:45 "Update FEB-2008  I am currently investigating what it would take to add distribution to cl-muproc, i.e. spawning muprocs across a network connection." 18:06:11 the mailing list has had no non-spam activity since 2007 18:06:42 That's less than three years ago  practically yesterday! 18:07:07 I suppose it's been longer than I thought  seems like I last used it in 2006. Wow, time flies. 18:07:15 maybe in geological time it is 18:11:30 inklesspen: that's almost Lisp time now. 18:12:18 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 18:15:10 inklesspen: well, you could try using Erlang for distributing the work and use Lisp end points... 18:16:32 this isn't a distributed system 18:16:41 i just prefer erlang's concurrency model over threading 18:20:48 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 18:24:28 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 LiamH: do you use the SERIES package? 18:26:48 leo2007: No; I've looked into it but I don't use it. 18:29:13 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082EA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:16 lichtblau: I'm (sort of) happy to report that that clim-gtkairo problem happens on linux/x86-64 as well... 18:32:46 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082DDF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:57 Fare [~Fare@dhcp-0098779281-1f-93.client.fas.harvard.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:00 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-249610.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:38:14 it seems that when running (MAKE-INSTANCE 'B), with B a class and A a superclass of B , I can't use initargs of A, is there a reason for that ? 18:38:38 I get a "Invalid initialization argument" in SBCL 18:39:40 galdor: maybe you're Doing It Wrong? 18:40:25 perhaps 18:41:22 use lisppaste to show us your case 18:43:52 here's a minimal example: http://paste.lisp.org/+2DYK. 18:44:10 it triggers the error 18:44:36 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 18:44:56 ... (make-instance 'b 'foo 42). 18:44:58 well, you name the initarg `foo' but use `:foo' in the make-instance call 18:45:00 galdor: define initargs as keywords 18:45:29 oh 18:45:42 you mean I failed defclass 101 18:45:56 first time I try to use classes (and not only structs) 18:46:10 well it works with :initarg :foo 18:46:15 -!- c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:19 (is there a use case for :initarg foo ?) 18:46:22 defclass doesn't introduce names by itself, it uses the ones you give it 18:47:01 well thank you for your help ! 18:47:21 c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.172] has joined #lisp 18:48:17 -!- c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:17 c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.172] has joined #lisp 18:49:51 jmbr [~jmbr@133.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:52:28 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54:20 regarding packaged -- what happens if i create a package "foobar" with nickname "foo", but someone else comes along and creates a package "foo"? 18:54:36 how will the symbol 'foo:xyzzy resolve? 18:54:47 toast`: They can't, because the name "foo" already refers to your package "foobar". 18:54:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D3E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:20 nyef - what happens if it occurs in the reverse order -- package "foo" exists, then i attempt to define "foobar" 18:55:28 Same thing. 18:55:39 same thing, but for foobar this time, right? can't define foobar 18:55:39 First come, first served. 18:55:46 hmm 18:55:53 Feel free to rename the package, though. 18:56:01 rename? 18:56:04 It won't affect symbol identity of already-loaded code. 18:56:35 can i assume this isn't really an issue in practice? 18:56:40 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 -!- c|mell [~cmell@212.93.100.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:33 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:19 LiamH: I am experimenting using SERIES with GSLL. 19:01:25 Not usually, no. 19:01:36 nyef: thx 19:04:55 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 -!- Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:44 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:53 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 19:08:30 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:09:10 LiamH: marray can be multidimensional, right? Is there an easy way to convert it to other types (eg list)? 19:09:46 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-12-229.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:11:42 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-15-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:52 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 does anyone have an idea what state the CL implementation of JS in the mozilla tree is in? 19:12:18 *mathrick* expects it to be bitrotten horribly 19:12:33 mathrick: I'm not sure if it was ever finished... 19:12:40 -!- ULTRAMAN [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-249610.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12:51 I only need a simple subset, but I'd like it to be working 19:12:55 obviously :) 19:13:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:13:52 *mathrick* is deobfuscating JS, fun times 19:14:12 and it would only implement original JS -- none of the additions or changes, right? 19:17:25 that's what I'd expect 19:18:11 astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-179.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:18:48 pnq [asdf@ACA24C45.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:09 you could use a simple swank-like protocol on node.js instead (: 19:24:32 try json-rpc (: 19:25:02 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:25:15 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 19:26:11 antifuchs: heh 19:26:21 well, it's not entirely without merit, actually 19:26:37 I could use something like Rhino and just call out to it 19:26:43 (but use st-json, AFAIK, all the other cl json implementations have float serialization problems) 19:28:51 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 19:28:53 maybe somebody should look at that original CL implementation 19:29:17 it's a shame CL was the first to have an implementation, and is now one of the few languages that don't actually have it 19:29:24 even elisp has one :) 19:31:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:31:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:01 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:04 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:32:18 wtf, why is clisp freaking out with asdf or asdf2, but not the other here on debian ? 19:32:44 grr, it tells package posix has no uid symbol defined 19:33:03 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:42 and there is no package asdf tells it too lol 19:37:04 mathrick: I'd rather embed v8. 19:37:48 eww, C++ 19:38:21 Oh, lovely. A call to EXPORT as a top-level form in src/compiler/ppc/vm.lisp. 19:38:32 -!- maden_ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:15 sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 well, it looks like the cl-opengl stuff _would_ work when linking CoreFoundation, but for the fact that all the cocoa UI stuff needs to be done on the "main" thread. :( 19:43:35 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has joined #lisp 19:43:52 pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has joined #lisp 19:45:34 well, yeah 19:46:47 -!- pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:00 pavelludiq [~pav@87.246.31.31] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 leo2007: not yet, working on that 19:48:08 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:49:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:54:51 lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:40 francogrex [~user@241.252-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:58:51 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125065.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:24 -!- fade is now known as Fade 20:03:15 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:30 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:03 IS "defun" a special-form? 20:13:57 No, it's a macro. 20:15:22 what difference? 20:15:29 Oh thought so. PCL says its a macro, but this guy's blog says it's a special form. 20:15:41 http://simonwillison.net/2002/Oct/3/lispSpecialForms/ 20:16:04 what does it matter whether some basic CL thingie is a macro or a special form? 20:16:14 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e50.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:22 Well, it matters if you're implementing a codewalker... 20:17:26 I guess it doesn't too much, but I found two contradictary sources and wanted to clarify it in my mind. 20:17:39 ... Lambda isn't a special form either. 20:17:43 Also, do things have to matter to be asked/answered? 20:17:49 Nor are when or unless... 20:18:19 Ah. 20:18:27 nyef: what difference does it make to the code-walker? 20:18:33 maybe he's not talking about common lisp 20:18:35 He finishes off by saying "EuLisp", which is not common-lisp. 20:18:49 Fare: Depends on how pedantic it wants to be. 20:19:06 Either way, it doesn't really matter, because code-walkers are evil. 20:19:25 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 for comon lisp go to the hyperspecs this shoukd be your reference 20:20:03 I am talking about Common LSIP 20:20:12 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:14 no such thnig 20:20:23 you are but the blogger isn't 20:20:23 (sorry) 20:20:52 Oh yeah, that makes sense. 20:21:19 Never heard of EUlisp before... 20:22:03 eulisp lived and died 20:22:13 without being noticed in the US 20:22:14 another difference of special forms from macros is that macros can be expanded and the result can be examined, resulting in either an educational experience or utter confusion 20:23:58 LiamH: no problem. I use http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225021 this for now. 20:24:15 IT seems like programming language shouldn't really be a regional thing. I live in the EU and code pretty much the same as people in the US... 20:24:35 ziarkaen: and yet they are. 20:25:03 leo2007: looks good. There are iterate extensions defined if you prefer iterate. 20:25:27 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 20:25:57 LiamH: the replacement for LOOP? (there are too many things named ITERATE) 20:27:02 minion: tell leo2007 about iterate 20:27:03 leo2007: please look at iterate: iterate is a lispy and extensible replacement for the :(CLHS "LOOP") macro. http://www.cliki.net/iterate 20:28:18 ziarkaen, this is from before the Internet was available to the masses 20:28:19 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229143183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:28:22 LiamH: what's the gsll extension to it looks like? 20:30:25 leo2007: grid, actually. Allows you to iterate over elements, or rows and columns of a matrix. 20:33:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:17 LiamH: the doc section 2.6 doesn't seem to contain any detail about the iterate extension? 20:36:39 leo2007: which doc is that? 20:37:05 LiamH: gsd/documentation/grid/index.html 20:37:34 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:38:35 thawkins [~tanner@ip72-198-212-203.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:06 -!- thawkins [~tanner@ip72-198-212-203.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:39:09 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:39:30 leo2007: you're right, it's a placeholder for documentation to be written 20:40:15 Does Peter Seibel ever come onto this channel? He has a quote from here on his book. 20:40:36 LiamH: can http://paste.pocoo.org/show/225021/ look better with iterate except adding more parentheses? 20:41:22 leo2007: It's a question of personal preference. Some people don't like loop. There are advantages to iterate, but if you like loop, then you're fine. 20:41:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 20:41:57 ziarkaen: yes. 20:44:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:34 is there some list of customers of various Lisp Machines? 20:49:16 I'm looking for information on sites in UK (in 1994~1997 timeframe) 20:49:25 p_l: Trying to track down used hardware? 20:49:45 ziarkaen: Yes, gigamonkey shows up fairly often. 20:50:41 LiamH: most interesting operations on marray are in gsd, isn't it? 20:50:44 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 20:51:15 leo2007: The generic ones, i.e., the ones that could apply to any array. At least that's the goal. 20:51:35 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:54 nyef: no, I need information for a fiction story :) 20:52:08 Ooh. 20:52:09 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:18 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:28 -!- francogrex [~user@241.252-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:40 Oh, tracked one - there was a CM200 in Edinburgh in 1994 :3 20:52:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:14 LiamH: ok. btw why doesn't *row-separator* default to ; ? 20:53:27 sorry that's the comment 20:53:31 leo2007: yup 20:53:33 I was thinking MATLAB 20:54:47 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.61.102.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 20:56:08 nyef: So far, the possible computers that might be mentioned are Cray Y-MP, T3D & T3E, CM-200 and possibly some lisp machines and SGI visualisation systems :) 20:56:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@dhcp-0098779281-1f-93.client.fas.harvard.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:56:35 Cool. 20:56:49 Didn't SwissAir have something going on with Explorers at the time? 20:57:02 I don't need much detail but I needed a reference for simulation-related R&D 20:58:44 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:01:55 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:14 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.242.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:23 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-179.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:08:26 Hrm. 21:08:56 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:09:00 I'm at the point in my project of the afternoon where I need to write some PPC ASM code that needs to be threadsafe. 21:10:17 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:10:47 ... Or not, but it's going to have to be soon. 21:12:42 kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 21:15:27 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:18:45 Anyone with a Windows CL want to try? 21:19:24 billitch1 [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has joined #lisp 21:19:35 -!- billitch [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:18 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA24C45.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:39 LiamH: do you know if gsll can be loaded with asdf2? 21:22:43 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:45 leo2007: I believe so. 21:23:02 *Xach* tested ~200 systems for loadability yesterday 21:24:51 Xach: thanks. I wonder if I should upgrade to ccl trunk or install asdf2? 21:25:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:40 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:30 If it ain't broke... 21:26:52 leo2007: not tried it, but if Xach says it works, then it works 21:29:47 thanks. 21:30:24 Xach: do you think in general closer-mop should be loaded for every project? 21:31:15 leo2007: No. Few projects need it. 21:31:31 leo2007: That seems like an odd question. What prompted it? 21:32:06 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:32:23 Xach: I was reading its description "Closer to MOP is a compatibility layer that rectifies many of the absent or incorrect MOP features across a broad range of Common Lisp implementations." 21:32:49 I thought it could help me write portable CLOS code? 21:33:12 Xach: how's QuickLisp going? 21:33:20 leo2007: CLOS is already portable. 21:33:23 leo2007: You can write portable CLOS without Closer-MOP 21:33:38 leo2007: If you need portable MOP, then closer-mop is useful for that 21:33:48 madnificent: super. want to try a really preliminary thing for it? 21:34:02 Xach: depending on how much work it is: yes! 21:34:55 does anyone have any experiece with using LGPL (not LLGPL) CL code? 21:35:23 are there any issues in how linking is interpreted or anything else that'd potentially taint the client code? 21:35:56 mathrick: clisp had a GPL issue, not an LGPL issue, right? 21:36:43 I dunno, I'm not familiar with it 21:37:16 I want to know if taking a Lisp library published under LGPL could result in the client code having to be LGPL as well 21:38:01 hmmm... this explains a lot of weirdness I had seen in VLM2 21:38:17 mathrick: yes, unless you load the LGPL code from a FASL 21:38:51 mathrick: you're clear if you use a source-provided licence (whether closed or open source) 21:39:45 what's a "source-provided licence"? 21:41:55 mathrick: you provide your software with source, but not necessarily *rights* to said source - client can for example rebuild the application or something like that, but they can't distribute anything etc. 21:42:21 many unices were distributed with partial source code and object files for the rest for a long time, even proprietary ones 21:42:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.7.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:46 p_l: The "overlays" thing? 21:43:34 nyef: as well as the layout of code 21:43:38 danieljames [~danieljam@94-193-7-241.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 overlapping subroutines, for example 21:44:03 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:44:26 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:44:32 (multiple entry points, depending on how much work was necessary) 21:44:57 Yeah, that's pretty normal. 21:45:56 also, I understand even more now how twisted snap4 is 21:46:05 what's snap4? 21:46:10 what sort of construct would one use in Lisp to simulate, say, a neural net. i.e. a lot of objects which then have some code applied repeatedly. any pointers to some decent code on the web would be greatly appreciated 21:46:27 danieljames: there are neural nets packages out there 21:46:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:01 mathrick: snap4 is VLM2 binary-translated to amd64 21:47:27 danieljames: http://www.cliki.net/MGL for instance 21:47:32 thanks 21:47:43 p_l: VLM2 is what, Virtual Lisp Machine? 21:48:36 mathrick: yes. Basically, Ivory microcoded for Alpha 21:48:43 -!- danieljames [~danieljam@94-193-7-241.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:48:44 aha 21:49:00 p_l: and re: loading FASLs, wouldn't simpy saying (load "foo") comply with that? In the same way arranging your code to work with any other set of .o files implementing the same interface satisfies LGPL? 21:50:57 I'm asking mostly to see whether investing any time in the Mozilla JS implementation won't be wasted by it turning viral because of the LGPL licence 21:51:27 mathrick: as long as you don't dump core 21:51:27 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:52 p_l: ahh, but if I provide means to rebuild the core, it's fine? 21:52:02 that's good enough for jazz 21:53:07 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:12 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:54 I am getting this "Error: File #P"home:.ccl;systems;swank-loader.lisp.newest" not found" 21:55:04 with asdf2 in ccl trunk 21:55:50 o_O OG2 got a new version 21:56:59 VLM2 running on OSX, native 21:57:39 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:58:03 circa 20 times slower than SBCL, though ;-) 21:59:18 njsg [~njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has left #lisp 22:03:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:07:03 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:08:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:42 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:11:07 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:34 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 22:13:57 ziggy_ [~ziggy@de2-as16463.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 22:15:24 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:33 TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.2.45.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:12 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:18 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2002F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:21 *madnificent* is excited about quicklisp 22:17:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:05 quicklisp? 22:18:18 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:19:04 *nyef* is about ready to hack up call_into_lisp() to take another argument rather than trying to call out to pthread_getspecific() from PPC ASM. 22:20:19 quotemstr: Xach's lisp distribution thing, IIRC. 22:20:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:20:52 quotemstr: Xach's approach to handle the installation of lisp libraries. (I may be missing the point though) 22:22:11 How is it better than ASDF? 22:22:54 quotemstr: by not having an overlap with asdf? 22:23:28 Don't both manage Lisp libraries? 22:23:31 quotemstr: asdf is the definition of how to load a library/application. QuickLisp is about distributing said libraries (over the interwebz) 22:23:40 Ah, so it's more like CPAN. 22:24:05 although I'm not extremely familiar with CPAN (I've only used it 5 times or so), I think so 22:24:29 also: I don't know in what direction quicklisp will be going in the near future, but I'd keep an eye out for it 22:24:43 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.214] has joined #lisp 22:24:47 *quotemstr* wonders whether he should implement Clojure-style COND. 22:25:07 in? 22:25:10 madnificent: Or ELPA for that matter. 22:25:14 mathrick: My Lisp. 22:25:25 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 how do i do profiling on clisp? 22:25:38 quotemstr: I know even less of ELPA 22:26:27 quotemstr: how's clojure's cond different from CL's? 22:26:34 and why are you implementing a lisp, sir? 22:26:38 mathrick: Clojure's has one level of parenthesis stripped. 22:27:05 mathrick: Long story. The short version is that the smallest available CL implementation, ECL, is too big for my needs, and I might as well improve on CL while I'm at it. 22:27:25 mathrick: So in CL, you might have (cond (a b) (c d)), in Clojure, you have (cond a b c d) 22:27:34 quotemstr: meh, it'd be more useful to look at making ECL smaller 22:28:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:09 quotemstr: oh, but then you have to wrap B and D in a PROGN if they're not single expressions, no? 22:28:12 *adeht* sees this kind of "improvements" as distasteful 22:28:31 mathrick: Right. 22:28:44 adeht: Well, so far, I haven't been *gratuitously* incompatible with CL. 22:28:45 that's arc again, and just as silly 22:29:17 quotemstr: it's still yet another dialect that's subtly different, and not actually similar enough to be able to reuse anything easily 22:29:43 mathrick: If it's similar enough to run MIT LOOP, it's close enough. :) 22:30:01 quotemstr: will you write many CL functions in some subset of CL itself? 22:30:14 quotemstr: that's pretty CLish if you ask me 22:30:18 madnificent: Isn't that how CL is normally implemented? :-) 22:30:24 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 22:30:28 quotemstr: have you tried picoLisp? :) 22:30:29 you might just as well work on an existing implementation and get it smaller 22:30:47 p_l: Its license is incompatible unfortunately. 22:30:48 madnificent: there are some efforts towards that already 22:30:49 mathrick: I suspect that getting it small enough might be hard 22:31:14 p_l: then you should think why, because you're likely to hit the same problem with your own Lisp 22:31:33 quotemstr: not necessarily. I think it could be good to have a reference implementation of CL written in CL itself. That would mean that in order to create a new lisp, you could reuse that bunch of code. It would make getting a lisp running on a separate platform a bit simpler (or the creation of a lisp which has different needs) 22:31:44 mathrick: where? 22:32:00 good question, I can't recall the names 22:32:15 http://www.cliki.net/Sacla 22:32:17 madnificent: My Lisp is implementable as a macro package on top of normal CL in case I change my mind. 22:32:21 mathrick: wrt to quotemstr he has an extremely limited memory footprint. It may well be simpler to start from scratch 22:32:22 that's one 22:32:33 that think spiaggia` was doing was another 22:32:34 mathrick: quotemstr mentioned having to fit in 600kB total 22:32:55 mathrick: I thought that was abandonware 22:33:04 it is, but so what? 22:33:17 rewriting it from scratch doesn't make you more likely to succeed 22:33:31 p_l: 600KB of what? 22:33:50 mathrick: oh no right, I didn't mean it like that (if your comment was wrt to Sacla) 22:33:54 Besides, my Lisp's GC integrates well into the garbage collection scheme of the program it's embedded in. 22:33:59 madnificent: it was 22:34:03 mathrick: Total distribution size. 22:34:12 mathrick: memory 22:34:20 quotemstr: so that's code footprint, not the memory footprint? 22:34:24 ah, distribution size 22:34:24 I don't care how much memory it takes at runtime, yeah. 22:34:42 quotemstr: maybe movitz then? 22:34:52 mathrick: then yes, this is certainly welcome material. I'm mostly interested in starting such a project :) 22:34:54 it has a lot of bare metal cruft you wouldn't need, but it small 22:35:07 mathrick: I'm _not_ interested in starting such a project 22:35:13 *madnificent* takes another coffee and starts reading again 22:35:18 It'll be run in two environments, actually: one which is under the tight constraints I mentioned, and another on a beefy server. My plan is to use a macro package on top of SBCL for the latter if performance becomes a problem. 22:35:23 madnificent: you've confused me completely now 22:35:51 Heh, Movitz might be a little too extreme. :) 22:36:24 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:28 mathrick: I'm _not_ interested in starting such a project from scratch. I'm interested in having the result of it. (and I was writing total gibberish) 22:36:34 aha 22:36:45 how do i profile in clisp? 22:37:05 quotemstr: well, but it's a mostly working piece of CL implementation you could just oust the bare metal bits from 22:37:17 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:28 it even comes with a mode where the distributed image is built without parts of the compiler to make it smaller 22:37:51 I'm also not interested in multiple value returns, eval-when trickery, or even hash tables. Certainly not all the variations of vector available either. 22:37:59 Xach: do you know what's the ARG to initialize-source-registry looks like? 22:38:19 mathrick: I wonder whether it could be coerced into running on not-bare metal. 22:38:19 krzysz00: The GNU clisp manual probably has a good hint. 22:38:20 I want to have all the configuration in .ccl-init.lisp. 22:38:21 quotemstr: what's the use-case? 22:39:18 mathrick: Desktop and mobile work in areas with really terrible bandwidth. 22:39:35 quotemstr: and what exactly would your lisp do there? 22:40:16 quotemstr: are you going to implement a two-tier lisp? One in which the client only receives the code it needs for its current executions? 22:40:36 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:40:42 mathrick: An obfuscating HTTP proxy; Lisp controls the obfuscators. 22:40:45 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:05 Fare [~Fare@140.247.40.242] has joined #lisp 22:41:08 madnificent: You mean one in which the client receives only bytecode? 22:41:54 quotemstr: not bytecode per se, lisp forms could be good enough 22:42:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:42:08 quotemstr: okay then, why do you need to stay below 600KB then, and what exactly is obfuscation in this context? 22:43:17 mathrick: 600KB is an approximate goal, not a hard barrier. As for the second part of your question --- it's a long story. 22:43:24 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:43:56 quotemstr: I'm interested even in some kind of summary that'd explain the idea behind and the reasons 22:44:18 I'm having a hard time imagining a situation in which you must stay below 600KB or so, but don't care about the memory 22:44:58 -!- shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:45:38 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:38 devices with 1MB flash, 1MB ram 22:46:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@140.247.40.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:05 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:19 mathrick: It's not that I literally don't care about memory, but I anticipate at least a few megabytes and a VM system being available on the host, so memory isn't as much of a problem. As for the size limit, it's governed by very slow and unreliable network links in third-world countries. 22:46:19 it may well just be for the challenge of it too :) 22:46:19 doing relatively little. you can be incredibly ram inefficient since you operate on very little data, but all your program image must fit on that flash. 22:47:06 toast`: Right. 22:47:24 quotemstr: so you'll be sending the thing itself over the network repeatedly? 22:47:33 also, is that 600KB prior to or after compression? 22:47:42 and are you counting the app itself in that? 22:47:55 mathrick: Yes, and yes. 22:48:14 mathrick: Err, after, and yes, respectively 22:48:15 . 22:48:24 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:31 quotemstr: ah, and the sending part? 22:49:15 mathrick: Yes. In fact, redistribution involves fetching a new copy of the program over the network. It's a very long story. 22:51:32 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:03 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:24 quotemstr: you have me intrigued now :) 22:56:41 if you ever get a writeup or some more extensive explanation, I'd love to hear 22:56:59 I plan to one day, when I have time. 22:57:16 And eventually to release this stuff as a standalone "write a tiny scriptable network application" framework. 22:58:54 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:25 there was a worm system that used a bytecoded lisp variant, it could be useful reference... 22:59:37 oh, interesting 22:59:42 quotemstr: I can see how a dialect makes sense here 22:59:45 Various malware authors have also used tinyscheme too. 23:00:06 mathrick: See? I'm not crazy. :-) 23:02:29 quotemstr: what kind of features do you need? 23:03:06 but you said it's a common lisp variant, rather than a scheme variant? 23:03:15 toast`: Yeah, though it's actually a Lisp-1. 23:03:53 yeah, i can understand the allure of doing a lisp-1 23:04:22 at that point, what difference is between R5RS and CL except stuff that can be covered with macros? 23:04:27 i'd been distracted with scheme for a long time, and introspectively it came to that fact alone 23:04:27 p_l: Besides tiny code size, basic computational features, some concurrency support via green threads, and the ability to effective manipulate byte streams. 23:04:45 p_l: Continuations are crazy. 23:04:49 p_1: packages? 23:04:54 tco? 23:05:17 quote: yeah, but there are a bunch of little schemes that leave out call/cc 23:05:28 derekv [hkacn5bo7t@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:38 and there are ones that exist as call/cc ;-) 23:05:40 Oh yeah, and exception handling support. 23:05:43 probably the #1 most left out feature in scheme=>language X compilers 23:05:54 Another reason to depart from CL: the host language is C++. Lisp exceptions *are* C++ exceptions. 23:06:09 toast`: Chicken is an example of going other way - every function call is call/cc 23:06:26 quotemstr: ouch. that's going to hurt 23:06:31 It's Clojure-like in some respects, though I started this thing before I learned Clojure. 23:06:33 p_1: heh, yeah, i laughed hard when i finally 'got it' reading the original paper chicken was based on 23:06:40 It also has Clojure-style destructuring everywhere. 23:06:51 destructuring is sweet 23:06:53 are all CL implementations host language C++ ? 23:06:59 no 23:07:02 ah ok 23:07:07 sepult: You can host a Lisp implementation in any language, including Lisp. 23:07:07 SBCL has it's own backend, i believe 23:07:11 quotemstr: oh, btw, why not use one of the tiny schemes around? 23:07:14 so it's host language is SBCL 23:07:30 SBCL compiled itself, entirely 23:07:31 ok 23:07:33 SBCL a runtime written partially in C, the rest is written in CL 23:07:38 *has a 23:07:39 with asdf2, it seems there's no need to separate SITE and SYSTEMS 23:07:56 i thought SBCL was self hosted. well, one of the big CL's is entirely self hosted 23:07:57 mathrick: First of all, I don't like Scheme. Second, the GC systems used by these schemes isn't the same as the host application's. Third, the exception system used by these systems isn't the same as the host language. 23:08:02 asdf2 does not work wich clisp 23:08:11 at least not with the cvs version of clisp 23:08:23 sbcl does however 23:08:23 p_l: SBCL partially in C? I thought it could bootstrap itself on any CL implementation. 23:08:31 sepult: you should report this to the cclan-devel mailing list 23:08:40 ok 23:08:42 if you haven't already 23:08:54 fare responds very quickly (: 23:08:54 i think i would have to register there first 23:08:57 quotemstr: I think that depends largely on the scheme you choose, there are hundreds of them to choose from 23:09:17 quotemstr: it can, it's just that there's a bit of C that gets linked in 23:09:22 ikki [~ikki@189.247.7.101] has joined #lisp 23:09:24 Anyone have experiance with lexor&parser generators in Lisp? 23:09:33 quotemstr: only in the runtime support, though 23:09:39 toast`: quotemstr: it is self-hosted 23:09:48 but you need to understand self-hosted properly 23:09:56 it has a runtime kernel which is written in C 23:10:17 because that's much easier and much more portable than doing it from Lisp 23:10:37 it can be however replaced (and I think it might be useful, actually) 23:10:37 all the rest is written in portable CL that can be bootstrapped by any sufficiently compliant CL implementation 23:10:49 p_l: the runtime? 23:10:56 mathrick: yes 23:11:08 mathrick: Ah, I see. 23:11:09 I guess, but why'd you want to replace it? 23:11:33 mathrick: with a CL one, or rather CL-generated one 23:11:45 + an object file writer 23:11:59 p_l: sure, but that makes porting to new archs very painful 23:12:06 mathrick: not necessarily 23:12:11 which is, I believe, a pretty big motivation to keep it in C 23:12:46 p_l: you'd need to make an (almost) complete object writer for the new arch before you can start testing for bugs 23:13:03 I don't know how portable and DSL'd that is in SBCL 23:13:21 there are only 3 important object file formats (ELF, PE and Mach-O), all of them designed for multiple cpu arch usability. The compiler has to be written any way 23:13:22 but it's presumably still more work than piggybacking on an existing C compiler 23:13:45 (eventually COFF in place of PE) 23:14:01 s/eventually/maybe/ 23:14:18 p_l: but reusing C (and its headers) allows you to skip reimplementing large chunks of boring OS-level API/ABI 23:14:32 sure, I can see the point of being fully CL 23:14:43 the interface to C runtime has to be written anyway for FFI, and no-one said we can't use a groveller (which is already done partially) 23:14:44 but practically it's probably just easier to offload it to C 23:14:51 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:15:38 -!- prxq [~mommer@f050239147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 23:15:45 derekv: yes 23:15:59 derekv: What would you like to know? 23:18:47 p_l: hmm, I guess 23:20:56 adamvh, Just a couple recomendations on good lexer and/or parser generators. I'm looking to implement a multilanguage compiler in Lisp ... FUCC for example seems to be what I want ideally but there appears to be a lack of documentation and perhaps active development for that one 23:21:01 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:21:04 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:38 cl-lex and cl-yacc have been fine for my admittedly not that demanding usage requirements 23:22:24 The error messages are rather sparse, though, and both barf closures, so debugging is somewhat difficult 23:22:49 I see. 23:23:00 They both work as macros, btw 23:23:22 So it's not like lex/yacc where you have some non-C language that spits out C that you can then use 23:23:33 Well realistically I don't need perfection, since this is mostly an educational/experimental project. 23:23:45 -!- Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:46 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:23:54 well you can asdf-install both 23:23:55 cl-lexx 23:23:58 cl-lex* 23:24:01 and yacc 23:24:05 (no cl in front) 23:24:22 LispbuilderSDL 23:24:32 also comes with some kind of lex/yacc package 23:24:37 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:24:50 however I went with cl-lex because it uses CL-PPCRE 23:24:57 jwacs demonstrates one way to use cl-yacc 23:27:34 *derekv* bookmarks some sites 23:28:04 pnq [asdf@ACA2A956.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:31:32 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.2.45.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: (funcall zZzZz)] 23:32:03 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66735e-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:08 mathrick: so imagine a simple language written with s-expressions that generated C ABI compatible code (using existing compiler framework) + a groveller to read includes 23:38:01 derekv: I can send you my code to help you get started if you'd like - examples can be a little tough to find sometimes. 23:38:06 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:17 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:40:12 I'm allowed to violate GC constraints (by, say, storing random junk in a boxed register) if I'm in p-a, right? 23:41:39 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:05 adamvh, that could be a huge help thanks ... sorry for the lag I was asked to do something for work. 23:42:47 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:10 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:58 I'll put it up on github and shoot you a link here 23:49:09 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:49:16 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:41 adamvh, Thats great, thanks =] 23:50:55 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:44 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:37 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:53:41 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:51 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:55:08 *leo2007* has moved to asdf2 23:56:08 defsystem hasn't changed much in asdf2, right? 23:59:02 -!- njsg [~njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit [Quit: [CITATION NEEDED]] 23:59:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]