00:00:29 ah, (perhaps) I get it. This has been messed up all along, but somehow trying to print the result shows the error 00:00:50 ok, so the problem is with dirent, not (merely) with the encoding. hrm... 00:01:27 Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:16 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:26 luis: I've got to take off, but feel free to chime in here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/592897 00:03:35 otherwise, I'll try to take a look at this later this weekend. 00:04:22 -!- Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:33 ok, I'm writing something up. 00:05:25 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:25 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.250] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:10:36 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:52 luis: perhaps this broke with the INODE64 changes 00:12:38 osicat uses readdir_r, actually 00:12:59 and this works fine on 32-bit darwin 00:13:17 ok, some 32-bit/64-bit shenannigans going on here. shouldn't be too hard to fix though. 00:15:19 -!- attila_lendvai_ [~ati@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 00:15:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 00:15:38 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:16:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:21:38 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:22 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Foo?] 00:46:37 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:32 ok I made my patch a bug on launchpad with the patch attached as well as a link to the git branch. https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/592903 00:52:06 let me know if I screwed something up :). This took longer then I expected, but I know now what to do for next time :) 00:53:01 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-nlnwdbvwijzjhqrg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:53:57 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:57:13 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-67-203.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:51 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:30 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:06:50 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-67-203.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 01:23:43 Joreji [~thomas@71-137.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:27:02 Thanks for taking my ban away :) 01:29:58 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-137.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:30:58 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:18 -!- Harag 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[~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:03:17 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA91D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:53 pnq [asdf@AC843A51.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:02 is hunchentoot the easiest way to create an http server with sbcl? 02:13:22 yes 02:17:58 is it more/less the only maintained way? 02:18:48 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: g'night all.] 02:21:31 prolly the only one Edi Weitz maintains 02:21:37 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:17 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:47 -!- Kickaha [~jadawin@bl5-24-208.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:48 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:22 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 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[~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:22:13 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:22:16 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:22:37 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:19 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 04:24:46 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:14 Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:19 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-135-165.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:29:46 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:30:57 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:02 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:40 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:45:22 caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:14 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 04:47:04 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:23 -!- caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:54:43 somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.219] has joined #lisp 04:55:29 Hello 05:00:12 -!- prip [~foo@host134-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:27 somehipbody: hi 05:01:08 thanks stassats 05:03:02 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:04:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:52 prip [~foo@host231-125-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:18:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 05:24:11 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:27:00 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:48 pkhuong: Do you happen to have some utility functions handy to measure the quality of a hash function? Something which takes a generator, and the hash-function, or something like that 05:34:02 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:37:18 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:17 Xkqqzzgk [~Xkqqzzgk@ppp-71-139-204-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:39 -!- Xkqqzzgk [~Xkqqzzgk@ppp-71-139-204-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 05:45:15 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:30 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:46:04 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:10 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:03 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:15 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:58:55 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:10 semyon421 [~semyon@ip-95-221-84-228.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:01:18 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:02:34 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:41 g'day 06:04:12 Don't know any lisp, but know some python. Looking at learning lisp/genetic programming/AI stuff, what books do you recommend? 06:04:17 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:36 Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence 06:04:44 So it will teach me lisp? 06:05:10 yes 06:05:14 thanks :) 06:05:36 see also Practical Common Lisp 06:05:44 oh, there's minion! 06:05:48 minion: PCL? 06:05:49 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:05:51 minion: PAIP? 06:05:52 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 06:06:29 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-16-116.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:06:39 And which one should I read first? 06:06:43 Or work my way through 06:06:47 PCL 06:06:50 Thanks. 06:06:57 minion: tell John__ about gentle 06:06:57 John__: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 06:07:10 Read this one as well, for symbolic manipulation stuff 06:07:25 okay, thanks :) -- before PCL? 06:08:16 I think after, since you claim to use Python already 06:08:28 Okay. 06:08:31 Thanks. 06:08:44 Functional programming will be hard to adapt to 06:08:45 PCL will seem more familiar after Python 06:08:50 FP isn't big in Lisp 06:08:54 oh 06:08:55 I see 06:08:58 good 06:08:59 FP is big in Haskell or Erlang 06:09:04 ahh, I see 06:09:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:09:59 but lisp isn't a stranger to functional programmer 06:10:39 It seems that Clojure makes functional programming in Lisp less painful. 06:11:11 for FP there are also other useful packages (like f-underscore) 06:12:12 p_l: Since that doesn't seem particularly Googleable, can you give me a link? 06:12:23 quotemstr: f-underscore? 06:12:34 Wait, is it "f-underscore" or "f-_"? 06:12:43 http://common-lisp.net/project/bpm/darcs/f-underscore 06:12:43 Ah, the former. 06:12:58 does it add tail recursion optimization? 06:13:21 stassats: Can't you just use something like Clojure's recur for much the same effect? 06:13:53 quotemstr: i'd rather not use tail recursion at all 06:14:04 stassats: Same here. 06:14:13 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-98-76.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:28 stassats: Some kind of list comprehension is almost always cleaner, IMHO. 06:15:08 or LOOP 06:15:24 LOOP can be used as a list comprehension. 06:15:33 (loop for v in x collect (1+ v)) 06:16:14 sequence functions start to look uglier when you add LAMBDA 06:18:01 -!- John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:18:31 stassats: Like map? 06:19:36 stassats: Clojure has a neat lambda shorthand. 06:19:53 -!- coyo is now known as SleepingCoyote 06:20:23 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:23:51 i don't think shorthands help much 06:24:19 stassats: On the contrary, I think that there's a threshold effect past which understanding becomes more difficult. 06:24:38 stassats: don't like recursion? 06:24:41 If you can keep the textual representation short, I think it's easier for readers to hold the entire construct in their heads. 06:25:12 adamvh: i don't like recursion for the sake of recursion, which tail recursion is 06:29:32 quotemstr: it's really hard to say, without an EEG 06:30:01 -!- John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:32:41 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:35:35 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:25 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:43:39 -!- somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45:29 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 06:45:51 -!- MetalDust_Clouds is now known as MetalDust 06:46:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@123.238.45.214] has joined #lisp 06:47:05 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@123.238.45.214] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:28 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:10:04 Algid [~endgame@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:33 -!- John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:52 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:18:01 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:24:24 I'm pissed of 07:24:32 JOOOOKKKEEEESS! 07:25:56 _danb_ [~user@124-170-91-159.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:26:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 07:26:36 -!- John__ [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Zhivago (Elsewhere) 07:26:36 John__: Enjoy your hangover. 07:28:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-172.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:28:50 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 07:33:19 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:39:10 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@ip-95-221-84-228.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:39:55 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:40:50 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:41:38 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #lisp 07:44:29 -!- pnq [asdf@AC843A51.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:45:22 -!- John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:33 John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:55:21 es g'day 07:55:26 billitch [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:12:06 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 08:12:49 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:50 -!- John__ [~StrangePa@60-242-111-108.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 08:14:16 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:23 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.90.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:32 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:20:50 fiveop [~fiveop@g229113228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:44 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.100.162.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:06 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-11-94-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:38:43 slime 08:41:13 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7569d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-248616.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:18 swank 08:46:19 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:20 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:15 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:56:18 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-41.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56:20 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:00:46 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-17-146.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:03:04 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-248616.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:04:12 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has joined #lisp 09:06:01 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-98-76.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:09:07 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2022FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7569d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-248616.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:24:03 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:50 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has joined #lisp 09:28:46 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:41:09 plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has joined #lisp 09:41:17 Good afternoon! 09:42:35 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:17 hi plage 09:43:31 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 09:52:36 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:52:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:53:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-91-18.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:54:05 As far as I can tell, there is an interesting contradiction in the HyperSpec, where for ADJOIN it refers to "satisfying a two-argument test" (or something like that), and in *that* section it says the :key function is never applied to the object, only to members of the sequence. This would not be useful for ADJOIN, of course, and the note shows what it is supposed to do (which contradicts the two-argument test thing). 09:54:17 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:56 Um, isn't that (test (key member) object), then? 09:55:07 I don't see the problem there. 09:56:33 Zhivago: for ADJOIN, (key object) would have to be compared to (key member), so that the object is "the same type" as the members of the sequence (becuse it might be consed onto it). But the "satisfying the test" page says the key function is never applied to the single object. 09:58:02 I see what you mean. The note at the bottom makes it clear. 09:58:04 So if it weren't for the note, the way I read it, you would say (adjoin 1 '((2 3) (4 5)) :key #'car) => (1 (2 3) (4 5)) 09:58:48 ... as opposed to (adjoin '(1 7) '((2 3) (4 5)) :key #'car) => ((1 7) (2 3) (4 5)) 09:59:43 [er, a few too many problems there, but you get the picture] 10:00:56 "However if the function operates on multiple sequences ..." 10:01:18 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:59 Zhivago: Yeah, and that's not the case for ADJOIN. 10:05:38 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-22-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:51 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:06 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:08:17 hmm, is jinterface-implementation broken somehow? My proxy object apparent does never get called 10:08:20 plage: yes, you can see the special-casing in sbcl's list.lisp: (body (if (eq 'adjoin name) ...)) 10:10:37 it has a (when (member 'key funs) `((x (funcall key x)))) 10:14:15 adeht: Yeah, I noticed SBCL follows the note. 10:17:17 http://www.cliki.net/Proposed%20ANSI%20Revisions%20and%20Clarifications <- has a paragraph about adjoin 10:20:16 adeht: Ah, yes, exactly that. Missed that one. Thanks! 10:21:39 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:22:31 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:22:57 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 10:30:32 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 10:32:32 TDT` [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:34:02 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:27 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:43:57 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:45:59 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:32 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:23 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 10:49:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:54:47 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:59:03 dysinger [~dysinger@206.205.21.219] has joined #lisp 11:01:05 sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:24 -!- plage [~user@113.165.166.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:10:33 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.208.124] has joined #lisp 11:13:42 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:22 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:07 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:01 ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has joined #lisp 11:26:39 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:30 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:34:37 BrokenCog [~d.jordan@122.201.47.214] has joined #lisp 11:35:22 Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-66.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:36:56 good day everyone 11:37:00 -!- BrokenCog [~d.jordan@122.201.47.214] has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:04 we fe[nl]ix 11:38:13 I don't fe[nl]ix 11:38:36 it's not polite to verb friends 11:39:30 zoldar [~zoldar@pc2.wejh.gda.pl] has joined #lisp 11:40:51 well, I must admit that I sad someone Fare well just yesterday 11:41:52 *Fare* reports absurd asdf compatibility bug. Sigh. 11:42:21 Fare: asdf2 seems to have some strange quirks, am I right? 11:42:58 hello, I have a lame question - how do I setf a series of object's slots to some particular value (for example nil) at once? I have tried: (dolist (param '(slot1 slot2)) (setf (funcall param obj) nil)) but it errors out on (setf funcall) being undefined 11:43:22 madnificent, dunno - what are you thinking about? 11:43:48 Fare: I just hear a lot of minor complaints about it here in #lisp 11:43:49 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:51 I'd say that ASDF in general has strange quirks. ASDF 2 tries to make the semantics more uniform. 11:44:00 zoldar: how about using slot-value? 11:44:16 madnificent, oh. Why are they not sent to me and/or the asdf mailing list instead :( 11:44:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:44:25 madnificent : but if I want to use an accessor (which is defined) ? 11:45:14 Fare: well, it's mostly known things afaict... so it's not something to worry about I guess 11:46:10 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:29 zoldar: I don't know if that's always possible, as the setf needs to be expanded. You can likely do wit a macrolet... but it's a bit hairy 11:48:15 madnificent, ok slot-value will be enough for me for now, thanks 11:48:16 ludwig- [~ludwig-@adsl-69-235-210-227.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:29 zoldar: you can use them if you'll do it at compiletime anyways... 11:48:34 the accessors are still functions. maybe (dolist (param '(slot1 slot2)) (funcall (fdefinition `(setf ,param)) nil obj)) will work 11:49:18 Adlai: setf is always converted into an accessible function? 11:49:47 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@pc2.wejh.gda.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:50:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:03 standard slot accessors are 11:50:51 standard-class slot accessors 11:51:15 that's specified in the standard? (/me just wants to be sure, it's good to know) 11:51:48 madnificent: yes, it will create a method for a generic function of the name (setf accessor-name) 11:52:37 madnificent, yeah, read the description of :accessor in the clhs page for defclass 11:52:42 clhs defclass 11:52:44 Yeah, I think I see it in the spec... quite complicated the way it's described 11:53:12 no specbot? 11:53:41 most bots are off 11:54:45 Adlai: The bots are actually just grad students, so most are gone during the summer. 11:54:57 http://l1sp.org/cl/defclass 11:55:01 :D 11:55:34 professors are a bit slower 11:56:03 we all managed to get to defclass by now, I think 12:01:48 still no speaker... 12:05:34 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has joined #lisp 12:05:40 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [] 12:06:17 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:22 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:40 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:08:58 -!- Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-66.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:11:37 adamvh [~adamvh@c-24-2-126-166.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:51 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:17:18 HG` [~HG@85.8.90.110] has joined #lisp 12:17:46 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:18:57 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.100.162.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:04 eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 12:23:46 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-139-157.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 G'morning all. 12:26:31 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-254-11.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 hello 12:27:00 Hello. 12:28:36 nyef, if I've an handle (calling inotify) how can I use (read) ? 12:28:55 I mean what do I have to do with that int ? 12:29:22 You could use something like sb-unix:unix-read, with all of its caveats, or there's sb-sys:make-fd-stream. 12:29:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.163.130] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 ah so It's still a cffi 12:30:41 Far easier to FFI than to try and inline a syscall on all our targets. 12:30:47 or you may use http://github.com/stassats/inotify , if you want 12:31:01 (And some targets don't even expose a syscall interface.) 12:31:36 nyef: can you speak at BLM ? 12:31:50 For how long, and what on? 12:31:59 your choice 12:32:29 B = Boston ? 12:33:09 I've got no current ideas for topics. 12:33:52 I'm opening too many projects :) 12:34:07 kiuma, yes 12:34:18 nyef: porting SBCL ? 12:34:30 making SBCL a .so ? 12:34:58 imap-clientlib / going to open webmail based on claw, going to implement an indexer to index maildirs and add a search engine to the mail client :) 12:35:54 ahh , finish the EFL CL binding :P 12:36:00 too much :/ 12:36:04 Hrm... Just over two weeks to come up with something and write a presentation, huh? 12:36:05 if sbcl were a .so, xcvb could build standalone binaries with cffi extensions 12:36:22 intro to hacking sbcl ? 12:36:45 very interesting 12:36:53 now that xcvb itself uses cffi extensions, it's getting more important 12:47:57 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-71-161.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:49:34 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:01 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:14 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:31 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 13:11:27 -!- dto [~dto@c-24-131-124-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:16 dto [~dto@c-24-131-124-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:06 joesb [~user@180.180.169.76] has joined #lisp 13:14:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:40 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:22:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:23:47 -!- joesb [~user@180.180.169.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:30 marioxcc [~user@201.132.82.221] has joined #lisp 13:26:06 marioxcc` [~user@201.132.82.221] has joined #lisp 13:26:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:26:47 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.82.221] has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:50 -!- marioxcc` [~user@201.132.82.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:06 marioxcc [~user@201.132.82.221] has joined #lisp 13:28:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:03 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 13:31:42 *Xach* wants to talk about buildapp and quicklisp, but can't make the meeting :( 13:32:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:34:20 rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has joined #lisp 13:34:34 Hi all :) 13:36:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-143-172.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:45 Hello rmarynch. 13:37:15 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-11-94-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:37:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.208.124] has left #lisp 13:38:11 nyef: I found your idea about dumping the flow graph in terms of DOT language the most reasonable. But we have two problems: 1) conversion to DOT 2) integration with compiler core. I do not know how to solve them 13:38:48 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:01 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-128-15.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:39:14 Solve integrating to the compiler core first, spitting out any random language. 13:39:27 Converting to use dot can be a post-process step. 13:40:31 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-17-146.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:41:15 nyef: The raw dump of the graph is simple. But the reading of the dump file may be a pain. I think about using cl-dot library, but we probably cannot ship it with SBCL 13:41:52 the dot language is very simple, you can often make a useful graph with just cl:format. 13:42:01 that's what i used for http://xach.com/tmp/ql.pdf 13:43:15 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@206.205.21.219] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 13:43:21 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-197-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:35 Xach: I am not sure whether I should reinvent the wheel when there is already cl-dot 13:43:45 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-19-238.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:44:47 ... Why do people say "reinvent the wheel" like it's a bad thing? 13:46:24 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:52 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-146-128-15.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:47:34 because it is :) But Xach is right, other approaches are connected with even more problems. So, should we design IR2DOT converter in SBCL core? 13:47:54 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:48:05 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.18] has joined #lisp 13:50:00 benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 Again, you can always try to dump something READable and have a post-process step. 13:51:11 like someone blogged lately, to reinvent the wheel is not something useless but rather a good way to familiarize yourself with existing technology and thus nurture progress 13:52:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:58 what if the existing wheel is too square? 13:53:19 nyef: is src/compiler/debug.lisp a right file to hold the dumper code? Or it is better to introduce a new file? 13:53:57 I'd be somewhat in favor of a new file, but that's largely because I'm in favor of small files. 13:54:14 If you're disinclined to new files, src/compiler/debug is probably the place. 13:54:41 Xach, what's quicklisp? 13:55:21 nyef: I prefer to have the separate file, something like flow-graph-writer.lisp 13:56:07 Fare: it's meant to be a way to get a useful library environment quickly. a bit like clbuild in that respect. 13:56:10 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:27 -!- dto [~dto@c-24-131-124-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:56:39 rmarynch: Fair enough. Feel free. 13:56:55 what's wrong w/ clbuild then? 13:57:16 nyef: ok, thanks for the advices 13:57:43 does buildapp handle ffi .so things to distribute w/ your app? 13:58:02 *Fare* would have liked a merge of buildapp and cl-launch, but oh my 13:58:33 maybe what I want instead is finish xcvb 13:58:43 a project that gets more complex as I dig 13:58:49 all for very bad reasons 13:59:08 -!- rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:08 is "in reverse chronological order" correct english? 14:00:17 Yes. 14:00:52 ty 14:00:52 Fare: clbuild requires too many steps on a new computer, for one. 14:01:28 what about adding a command that does all the steps at once? 14:01:47 *Fare* is wary of multiplying entities needlessly 14:02:25 Fare: fixing clbuild is not something on which i want to work. 14:02:30 I don't have any particular love for clbuild 14:02:45 repeating and maintaining a replacement is tough too 14:03:00 milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has joined #lisp 14:03:01 unless you're so good that people switch to your thingie instead 14:03:05 It's tough, but I have a lot of enthusiasm for it and I'm making tools that will, hopefully, minimize the effort. 14:03:30 I doubt anyone who likes clbuild will switch, but I think I will get many users for whom clbuild can't work. 14:03:47 i would like it if it paid attention to asdf 14:04:04 JuanDaugherty: what does that mean? 14:04:34 or if I understood positively its relation to asdf, about which I asked and got no response 14:04:58 *Xach* missed that context 14:05:48 Xach: will it be distributed by nature? 14:07:01 madnificent: What does distributed mean to you? 14:07:44 Xach: having the ability to add/remove sources for definitions (if that is at all meaningful to you) 14:08:02 JuanDaugherty, can you explain? or link to explanation? 14:08:25 well this is a publiclly logged channel 14:09:08 yeah, and there are many many days of logs to peruse 14:09:16 which I won't do 14:09:23 madnificent: I'd like to do that. 14:09:35 i think clbuild makes a statement about asdf 14:09:36 JuanDaugherty: in all fairness, if you really have a question and would like for it to be answered, then it should be simple for you to ask it again. 14:09:42 madnificent, as in the cl directory? 14:09:57 JuanDaugherty, what statement does clbuild make? 14:10:10 JuanDaugherty: also, if anyone needs to search/find it, you're likely going to be the one that needs the least time to find the question 14:10:15 in any case my unanswered query was "are clbuild and asdf at cross-purposes?" 14:10:55 uh? 14:11:16 asdf runs in the current lisp image and assumes the source is already in the filesystem 14:11:22 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:23 JuanDaugherty: Do you mean asdf-install, rather than asdf? 14:11:36 clbuild downloads source code from over the net, then starts a lisp image 14:11:38 Xach: then I'll likely start using quicklisp 14:11:41 for me they are part of the same thing 14:11:50 (And if so, the answer is "yes, asdf-install must die".) 14:12:08 i.e. the putative lisp pkg mgr. 14:12:20 asdf is not and has never been a pkg mgr 14:12:42 neither is clbuild, really ;) 14:12:52 you might be confused with asdf-install, which is a quite separate project these days, one that isn't getting much love 14:13:26 -!- ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:34 JuanDaugherty: asdf (without asdf-install, which is something bolted on asdf and is separate!) is the package definition. In the sense that it tells you how to load a certain application/library. asdf-install and clbuild are ways to install said definitions + sources from teh interwebz 14:14:18 cl in general isn't getting much love 14:14:28 the naming is indeed confusing, it looks like asdf-install is an integral part of asdf, even though it really isn't 14:14:34 i view these things from a lang independent perspective 14:14:59 Fare: that's because YOU don't give it enough love! Quick! become more patient! Faster! 14:15:28 in which there is a thing which is the putative pkg mgr, whether haskell, perl, java, smalltalk, whatever or not (like c/c++) 14:15:37 *delYsid* gets pulled into CL every few months it seems 14:15:50 and it times it was ABCL, a very neat thingy 14:16:01 madnificent: I feel a bit bad even talking about it, since there's so little done yet. But I'm very excited about the idea and can't help sharing. 14:16:22 madnificent, right. Sometimes I feel it doesn't give enough love back for what you give it. 14:17:00 *madnificent* beams a secret-alien hug to Fare 14:17:31 Fare: too little devs, but in all fairness, the same thing exists in things like rails. Most people don't contribute, they just cash 14:18:03 Xach: it's all good. There's no cliki page yet, is there a mailing list or rss feed or something of the likes 14:18:31 madnificent: not yet. 14:18:44 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:19:23 Xach, how will it differ from clbuild or asdf-install or libcl or desire or mudballs? 14:20:03 madnificent, it's a vicious/vertuous circle thing -- people contribute when there's cashing and cash when there's contribution 14:20:05 Xach: will I find out when you have something? I'm willing to test-run (if I find time, I'd be willing to help you code it, but I'm not sure I will have time in the months) 14:20:16 question being, does the system make contribution/cashing easy? 14:20:39 sometimes, CL is just GREAT, but often, the initial price to pay is high. 14:20:51 and making things "portable" is hell 14:20:51 Fare: it will be easier to get and use. 14:20:53 Fare: no, really... most rails users just cash. Same goes with Drupal. There's a fairly small group of people that actually contribute to those projects. At least lisp has a high ratio of contributors versus users. Therefore it's quite essential to get more users. 14:21:26 Fare: I do agree on lisp having a delayed payback in some projects. But the inherent flexibility is so nice 14:21:34 *madnificent* didn't know desire 14:21:59 madnificent, also, it's a pain to me that the setup/dependency cost is high enough that people don't dare use, make, distribute trivial enhancements as a lambda reader, etc. 14:22:38 rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has joined #lisp 14:22:41 Racket has a lot of nice things that I wish CL had -- and is missing a few things that make me cringe. 14:22:44 Fare: a lambda reader? 14:22:58 On 14:23:00 sorry 14:23:01 Fare: One reason that I'm glad of clojure, etc. 14:24:05 benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:19 ( (x) (+ x x)) 14:24:43 or the basic mechanisms that allow for lexicons to work on CCL 14:25:15 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-21-68.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:23 Fare: I don't understand what the pain is to you. Is it the amount of effort it takes to get CL up and running? or is it something else? 14:25:27 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.208.133] has joined #lisp 14:25:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-196-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:14 things like that are missing from CL and hell to try to retrofit 14:26:38 Fare: for the sake of simplicity we are using some emacs syntax woodoo for that to display "lambda" as "". it's in hu.dwim.syntax-sugar, but it also has a defmacro on  which we don't seem to use... 14:26:39 the pain is the discrepancy between CL and "the language you'd like" 14:26:51 Lisp is meant to be the programmable programming language. 14:27:07 one more question: the graph may contain cycles, so I should make sure that a structure is not dumped twice. Is it reasonable to assign ID to every instance using sxhash? 14:27:11 but CL falls short in many ways, especially with any semi-portability involved. 14:27:31 (to either OS platforms and/or lisp implementations) 14:27:41 Fare: you're preaching to the wrong crowd about that here... just come up with "unusual" "non-lispy" extensions of CL and people will burst into complaints 14:27:47 sxhash is not an ID 14:28:20 Pity the poor, underappreciated visionaries and dreamers. 14:28:37 CL has social as well as technical issues, and while there is a way out, the price to pay is steep. 14:28:44 at least it is said to return different values for different instances, isn't it? 14:28:52 same can be said of all other systems, too, I suppose. 14:28:56 Fare: fair enough... it's still my language of choice so far, but it might change when the gods create a new universal lisp 14:29:11 Factor ? 14:30:18 Fare: but the way out is way much easier on something like Racket... (i haven't check Racket in details yet, but we had long discussions with Felleisen on els'10 and our views on tools and languages were very similar) 14:31:56 Felleisen is great. Racket doesn't have as much an emphasis on performance as say SBCL, and I don't like its lacking FFI support -- which is probably related, since it being slow for a long time meant people just wrote in C instead of exposing low-level things to Lisp then writing in Lisp. 14:34:43 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:50 attila_lendvai: people will not burst into complaints unless the extenders insist that their "unusual" extension is the Right Thing for all possible uses and that everyone should convert instantly and that projects should be rewritten using this unusual new thing 14:35:33 you, or ron garret, or Fare can do whatever metalinguistic things you like, and you won't hear a complaint from me (but nor will you necessarily receive a bouquet of flowers in the first class post) 14:37:39 and if there's something that lots of people demonstrably find useful, then change does happen 14:37:45 Krystof, granted, and that's fair enough. 14:38:00 problem being the high cost associated with demonstration. 14:38:14 For instance, I could write stuff with lexicons, but then it would all be CCL-specific 14:38:20 Krystof: noone pointed at you personally... i was pointing at the average of the CL crowd, which includes many others. 14:38:27 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.94.3] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 sure, there's a certain amount of conservatism -- but then there's a lot of stuff that wants to be conserved too 14:38:54 and after such a "demonstration", the cost of getting the mechanism adopted is just as high. 14:39:05 agreed that conservatism is good, too 14:39:32 the Racket crowd have a good mechanism for that by segregating languages, so that you can support old languages while developing new incompatible ones. 14:39:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:47 Fare: oh, yes, it's neat stuff 14:40:16 -!- rmarynch [~roman@62.122.200.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:59 but then you're limited to Racket 14:41:05 you don't get to port to anything else 14:41:15 that's kind of what I want to do with experiments like xcvb and molicle, but from the experiment to something widely usable, there's a BIG step, and that's also one thing that's painful with CL. 14:42:22 I'd like a CL frontend for Racket (or rather, families of frontends with more or less CL compatibility), and a backend for Racket that is SBCL-strength. 14:42:52 I don't think that dragging the whole of the CL community along, or even a small proportion of it, is a viable plan for any kind of language extension development 14:43:29 if that's what you really want to do, identify a subset with a particular use case, work with that subset, and "sell" to that subset -- and completely ignore everyone else 14:43:35 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:04 probably not. If I go the Racket way, I'd focus on the backend first; if the backend is attractive enough, then others will write frontends they like. 14:44:50 and yes, currently, I know only one big customer that could be interested in compatibility with a million line of code -- and they won't look at Racket because its backend is just not good enough. 14:44:55 I slightly suspect that the backend is the hard, unrewarding problem 14:45:29 well, bug-compatibility with the minute details of ANSI CL is hard and unrewarding too as you no doubt know. 14:45:45 but probably easier to rip from existing code 14:46:47 as in, you could implement a CL in Racket, but what you really want is some integration between environments, not an implementation of one environment on top of the other. 14:47:15 and that's much harder to do while preserving the fine semantics of CL introspection, say. 14:47:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:48:17 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:43 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm19.gamma94.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:00 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 14:49:06 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:30 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:40 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 14:50:51 maybe you don't need 100% compatibility... maybe it's acceptable if some libraries need to be re-implemented. If the set is limited, then the effort to move to another evironment is limited too 14:51:03 *Xach* learns that sbcl yes-or-no-p rings the bell 14:51:08 of course you don't need 100% compatibility 14:51:22 but which bits of compatibility you need are probably application or library dependent 14:51:49 also, you'll be able to show the benefits in a recognizable environment 14:52:02 Fare: yeah 14:52:02 Fare: i found i need a function from asdf that doesn't seem to already exist 14:52:10 Xach: which? 14:52:18 Fare: for a given system, i'd like to know in which file it was defined. is there already a way to do that? 14:52:19 where is "racket" from? what happened to PLT? 14:52:33 Adlai: PLT changed name, see racket-lang.org 14:52:53 Fare, yeah, I saw the site and changed name, I'm just wondering why 14:52:57 Xach: won't (component-pathname (find-system :foo)) do it? 14:53:06 Adlai: they have a FAQ on it. 14:53:11 *Adlai* digs around 14:53:38 Fare: No. 14:53:52 Fare: that returns a pathname without a filename or type 14:53:53 http://www.racket-lang.org/new-name.html 14:54:46 Fare: to put it another way, it's almost (but not quite) like answering the question "What argument to find-system would result in this system being defined afterwards?" 14:55:05 uh 14:55:19 Fare, thanks 14:55:25 Fare: any ideas? 14:56:29 using asdf 2: 14:56:37 (component-pathname (find-system :asdf)) ==> #P"/home/fare/cl/asdf/asdf.asd" 14:56:50 gtg 14:56:51 bye 14:56:56 Ok, I'll try with asdf2. 15:00:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.94.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:24 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:06 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:06:32 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.186] has joined #lisp 15:08:03 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:40 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:21:10 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-57.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:22:53 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-71-161.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:40 Hun [~hun@95-90-181-241-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:55 techsilo [techsilo@cpe-69-205-33-111.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:31 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:42:49 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:45:55 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:49:21 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:39 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.90.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:55:45 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:39 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:49 -!- benny [~user@i577A1A1E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:50 benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:45 dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.7] 16:05:10 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:07:57 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.166.8] has joined #lisp 16:08:20 Blkt [~user@net-188-152-131-94.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:44 It's not clear to me how to add a tree to the asdf2 system search configuration from the repl. Any tips? 16:14:59 The manual lacks any examples and has errors. 16:15:16 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:17 (ASDF:ENSURE-SOURCE-REGISTRY takes no arguments) 16:15:52 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16:37 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:50 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-57.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 16:18:17 maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has joined #lisp 16:19:14 Xach: does it have to be recursive? 16:20:15 Yes. 16:22:11 Maybe my mistake is referring to this manual at all. 16:22:15 *Xach* checks the manual in git 16:23:39 Xach: apparently (:tree ...) directives are resolved at boot time 16:24:03 That's pretty stupid. 16:24:22 Xach: it might be different, though 16:24:25 What's the easiest way to do what I want? 16:24:27 I haven't read the code too much 16:26:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:00 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 16:28:06 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 16:29:10 Xach: look into asdf::register-asd-directory 16:29:50 dto [~dto@c-24-131-124-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:59 *Xach* feels an illness in his double-colon 16:37:17 -!- eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:37:38 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:38:06 -!- ludwig- [~ludwig-@adsl-69-235-210-227.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ludwig-] 16:40:18 Ok, I think I see the error of my ways. 16:40:26 hello 16:41:20 Ah, cxml doesn't load with asdf2. 16:41:49 *Xach* ignores asdf2 for now 16:43:07 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:10 *_3b`* should probably see if asdf2 breaks anything i'm responsible for at some point 16:44:27 p_l: fwiw, (asdf:initialize-source-registry '(:source-registry (:tree "/path/to/stuff/") :inherit-configuration)) did what i want. 16:44:32 *luis* got asdf2 patches for CFFI, heh 16:45:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:32 http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/cffi/cffi.git;a=commitdiff;h=82797e108afb5e55b6a83162ac167c3788d094a0 16:45:51 they seem like rather gratuitous changes... 16:46:43 This sounds like great material for a CL-HATERS handbook chapter, "The asdf2 disaster" 16:46:50 Preceding chapter: "The asdf disaster" 16:47:05 <_3b`> well, arguably some of the asdf2 problem is asdf1 :p 16:47:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.55] has joined #lisp 16:48:32 Succeeding chapter: "The asdf-install disaster", followed by "The clbuild disaster"? 16:48:48 clbuild is great :) 16:49:10 were can I post a rant? 16:49:31 ost: on your blog 16:49:32 or two 16:49:57 or on usenet... nntp truly made a better blogosphere ;) 16:50:28 will there be a chapter about SBCL harming software industry? 16:50:33 sglinux [~sglinux@cm60.gamma88.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:50:59 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:26 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:22 Yes, let's have a chapter on what's wrong with SBCL, and another for CMUCL... 16:54:05 with a foreword about Spice lisp? 16:54:17 postamar [~postamar@206-248-170-179.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:11 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-170-91-159.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 16:55:53 I met the guy who wrote cmucl's FFI :) 16:56:00 long time ago 16:58:37 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 Xach: preceding that, "load.lisp disaster"? 17:01:39 *p_l* sometimes wants to test building CMUCL from *scratch* 17:02:08 but I usually get stuck on the possible need of a PC/RT 17:03:08 *stassats* figures p_l has copious amounts of free time 17:04:46 stassats: no, just ridiculous methods of running away from depression ;-) 17:04:55 (and an interest in retrocomputing) 17:05:07 try running literally 17:05:52 -!- postamar [~postamar@206-248-170-179.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: postamar] 17:06:05 Heh. 17:06:11 Yummy endorphins? 17:06:47 stassats: sometimes that too. 17:07:06 But what I really miss is a healthy 5h "freeze your ass but keep going" flight 17:09:12 sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:26 xan_ [~xan@athedsl-249610.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:10:57 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:12:11 -!- Blkt [~user@net-188-152-131-94.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:12 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 stassats: how about releasing swap-bytes ? 17:13:38 what's releasing? 17:15:40 making a tarball with a proper name, and putting it somewhere for download 17:17:09 maybe once ccl routines work 17:17:09 <_3b`> github makes tarballs, if you aren't too picky about properness of names 17:18:06 _3b`: I'm very picky 17:19:24 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:13 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:23:20 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:23:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-254-11.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:25:24 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@71.21.200.158] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 morning 17:26:52 *p_l* thinks there should be a tool that you could just execute in toplevel directory of the project and it would package it and upload to release server with metadata.... 17:27:18 and write documentation? 17:27:32 hi slyrus___ 17:28:13 nyef: who knows if the work or not, but I managed to scrape up a couple g5 powermacs and a g4 powerbook this morning. 17:28:17 s/the/they/ 17:28:37 Oh, cool. 17:29:37 stassats: no, not write documentation 17:30:32 but integrate hyperdoc, documentation generation on install and indexing it all together with single interface in Emacs (so you have both hyperspec and others linked together)? Hell Yeah 17:31:36 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:24 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.86.115.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:51 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 *rtoym* seems to have forgotten how to upload a file release to sourceforge.... 17:37:02 -!- dto [~dto@c-24-131-124-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:15 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:39:36 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 17:40:09 Ah, ok. That seems to work. series 2.2.11 uploaded. 17:40:19 rtoym: maybe move it github? 17:41:12 That means I have to learn git. I'm happy with cvs. 17:41:13 is common lisp's decision not to adopt uniting variable and function namespaces a good decision? 17:42:06 You mean making CL a lisp1? 17:42:09 leo2007: The best ever. 17:42:30 I started using git after watching http://vimeo.com/2871241 17:42:52 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 Xach: lexical scope would be the best decision. 17:43:19 rotty: yeah 17:44:07 variable capture seems much common in scheme 17:44:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:44:50 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:54 leo2007: i can't make any sense out of what you're saying 17:45:42 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:40 stassats: which one? 17:47:37 leo2007: starting from "lexical scope" 17:48:34 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 17:48:36 the decision the x3j13 took to adopt lexical scoping from scheme was the best decision they made. 17:49:23 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:02 was it their decision? 17:52:17 the flamewars about it in net.lang.lisp are entertaining 17:52:37 Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-46.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 Can't have been x3j13, it was in the '84 standard, surely? 17:53:12 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:34 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:35 yep 17:55:11 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:04 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:16 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:43 http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.lisp/msg/84ee01edc33a0a18?pli=1 17:57:17 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:51 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:58:28 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:00:45 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:09 scottj [~scott@97-113-149-67.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:45 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:59 Does slime repl have a backward i-search of just input (ignoring output/prompts) 18:02:14 I remembered read it somewhere in Dick Gabriel's essays. 18:02:37 scottj: M-r? 18:02:43 <_3b`> scottj: M-p 18:03:00 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-46.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:03:09 _3b`: M-p isn't isearch :) 18:03:15 <_3b`> ah, sorry 18:03:15 leo2007: thanks, paredit was shadowing it 18:03:27 <_3b`> it does match partial input though, if not incrementally 18:03:48 yeah, i raised that to the author of paredit. 18:03:54 M-r isn't isearch either 18:03:58 <_3b`> M-r doesn't seem to be incremental either 18:04:04 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d8189f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:05 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:04:06 hhe 18:04:08 hehe* 18:04:12 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 18:04:13 hiho 18:04:21 *stassats* is not using paredit in the REPL 18:04:30 How do I (eval) a string? 18:04:50 (eval (read-from-string string)) 18:04:51 _3b`: I didn't notice M-p matched, thanks 18:04:51 there should be a new key-map for paredit in repl or minibuffer etc. 18:04:53 wakeup: (eval "string") 18:05:16 ehu: I mean like (eval "(format t "hello")) 18:05:29 but so that (format) is evaluated 18:05:30 ehu: well, since a string is self-evaluating, just "string" will work 18:05:57 okay how do I get the s-expression out of a string 18:06:00 wakeup: I expected that; however, that's not what you asked. stassats gave the answer to the implied question. 18:06:19 thx 18:06:34 does anyone use paredit in minibuffer (that would take effect in inspect value prompt right?) 18:06:34 the right answer is "Don't do it" 18:07:01 hmm 18:07:46 I want my sbcl to read and execute from a socket. 18:08:04 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-95-45.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:09:37 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:58 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-16-116.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:10:16 aw [~aw@p5DDAB9EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 that's a terrible idea, but it isn't difficult to do. use iolib + eval. 18:10:53 Blkt [~user@net-93-145-59-186.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 18:11:42 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:14 pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest19522 18:15:46 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:16:23 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-23-26.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:27 wakeup: http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/les.lisp, that is pretty much an example that does what you want, i think. it is for CCL and not SBCL, but porting should be trivial. 18:18:07 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: modem+router shit .. brb] 18:18:58 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6647eb-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:32 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.133] has joined #lisp 18:21:02 -!- Guest19522 [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:21:18 wakeup: why? I mean: you probably don't. How about security? 18:21:39 well its not a service 18:21:50 Its an application a user uses 18:22:04 if the user sends crap to his lisp so be it 18:22:17 it doesnt listen on a port but on a file 18:22:30 ah. ok. 18:23:08 I plan on starting my lisp apps like: lispc -s system -e "(start)" 18:23:28 or something like that 18:23:28 pkhuong__ [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:45 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-145-59-186.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:00 maybe just read an "appfile.lisp" piped to stdin 18:24:37 how about compilation. performance not an issue/ 18:24:39 ? 18:27:33 -!- maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:59 daniel [~daniel@p5082DDF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:10 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:29:12 -!- pkhuong__ [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:32:17 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082F915.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:35 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:11 -!- wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.45] has left #lisp 18:35:01 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:37:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:40 is one ASCII character = one byte in cl? 18:38:57 <_3b> CL bytes are variable size 18:39:52 And the cl standard is more than a little flexible about character encoding. 18:39:54 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:24 and characters are not bytes 18:40:29 <_3b> (unsigned-byte 7) should hold (the character code of) an ascii character 18:40:47 Fare [~Fare@140.247.143.81] has joined #lisp 18:40:57 <_3b> or (unsigned-byte 8) depending on how you define 'ascii' 18:41:23 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-103-19.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 how can I get the byte length of a string? 18:41:34 :D 18:41:44 Why do you want it? 18:41:45 <_3b> or you might prefer to use something like babel to convert between octets and characters and not worry about the specifics 18:41:54 Is this in memory or when encoded for I/O? 18:41:55 babel:string-size-in-octets 18:41:57 (length (string-to-bytes x)) 18:42:02 I want to send messages over tcp 18:42:11 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:34 in the format:: 6 bytes of message length in hex, rest message 18:43:12 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 18:43:23 since sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream does not seem to work with nonblocking IO 18:43:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-196-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:40 nyef: so its encoded for output I guess 18:44:55 file-string-length 18:47:55 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:57 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 18:48:57 Well, maybe not. That only tells you how file-position would change if the string were written. 18:50:01 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:51:30 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-223.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:51:53 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:52:02 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:28 wow. I wonder if I can build the head with 0.9.15.8. 18:54:46 Fare: see the reply on asdf-devel 18:55:33 ok 18:55:37 seen it 18:55:44 will not issue a 2.002 for that 18:57:14 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:17 what does that mean ? 18:58:44 oh sorry, another message... 18:58:56 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-201-249.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 well, one problem is that SBCL can be very slow at walking the configured tree 18:59:20 allowing to NOT inherit allows to skip this bottleneck when you want. 19:00:46 creating a system list eagerly is a bad idea anyway 19:01:19 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:33 find-system should search through the configuration each time 19:01:42 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-23-26.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:58 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 19:02:09 otherwise, if I add a new system after starting the image ASDF won't see it 19:02:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:03:17 yeah, currently you have to re- (initialize-source-registry) 19:03:42 problem being, :tree is especially expensive if we have to do it every time. 19:05:22 yepp 19:06:28 hence my preference for some kind of "registry" maintained by your package manager - apt, emerge, clbuild, whatever 19:07:07 a directory of symlinks or a file with one absolute path per line 19:07:15 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-252.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:19:33 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:20:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:21:37 nyef: I forgot how long it takes to build on ppc :) 19:25:10 meh 19:25:13 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@71.21.200.158] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:25:19 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 19:26:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:46 -!- Blkt [~user@net-188-152-134-252.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:29 slyrus___: ... About 35 minutes? 19:28:44 If a LISP function accepts x as a param, then runs (setf x 4), will x be changed outside the function? PCL seems to say it will be, but in my tests the function sees a local binding (like in Python). 19:28:57 ziarkaen: no 19:30:36 PCL: "But if the object passed to a function is mutable and you change it in the function, the changes will be visible to the caller since both the caller and the callee will be referencing the same object." 19:30:56 Somewhere on my todo list is threaded sbcl/ppc. 19:31:02 that's true 19:31:06 What does that mean then? 19:31:20 ziarkaen: Lisp has no pass-by-reference. 19:31:23 ziarkaen: Let that sink in. 19:31:44 ziarkaen: Or to be more precise, *values* are passed by reference, not variables. 19:31:46 (No pass-by-reference, but some values -are- references.) 19:32:09 ziarkaen: Most, but not all, values are immutable. 19:32:27 The better the Lisp, the fewer the mutable values. :) 19:32:28 *quotemstr* ducks. 19:32:29 (That's because most, but not all, values are numbers.) 19:32:42 "most" ? 19:32:59 Arrays are usually mutable. 19:33:39 Hrm. 19:33:46 It'd be better to say that most values normally aren't mutated. 19:34:01 OK thanks. So Peter Seibel is technically correct, but misleading as I believed most values would be mutable. 19:34:03 pnq [asdf@AC81DBBE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:43 And this behaviour is distinct from, say passing a pointer in C to allow the function to modify outside it's scope? 19:34:49 ziarkaen: The association between a lexical binding and its value can only be altered by code that is within the textual extent of that lexical binding. 19:34:50 that's "mutable" terminology what is misleading 19:35:10 *nyef* has a mutable sound system. Does that count? 19:35:17 ziarkaen: (let ((x 5)) (y x)) --- y cannot alter the association between "x" and "5" because y is not defined in the textual extent of the let-form that created the x binding. 19:36:58 Any compiler worth its development would simplify that to (y 5) anyway. 19:37:33 nyef: Sure, but we're talking about semantics, not implementation. 19:38:06 OK that makes sense. And there is no need to do this? If I write good LISP code, this should never be a problem, right? 19:38:41 mprime [~jgg@FL-ESR1-208-102-133-40.fuse.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 ziarkaen: If you find that you want to do that, you either need defvar or a lobotomy. 19:38:58 :) okies. 19:39:10 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 19:39:18 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229113228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:39:36 -!- mprime [~jgg@FL-ESR1-208-102-133-40.fuse.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:20 rtoym: root on my system created a file /tmp/foo and the series tests failed like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/224731 19:46:15 nyef: apparently some joker broke the ppc build back around .39.4 19:46:30 slyrus___: Oh? 19:47:07 'cause I had no trouble with .39.8 on linux. 19:47:34 darwin/ppc, sorry 19:47:58 Then again, I expect test badness for you as of .39.7. 19:48:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:58 -!- slyrus___ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:13 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:11 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Quit: "reboot"] 19:55:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:40 Hmmm wouldn't you need to use let*? 19:57:07 nvm 19:57:44 argh. chipz keeps stack-overflowing clisp. 19:58:42 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:07 varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:59:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:01:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:13 -!- pnq [asdf@AC81DBBE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:41 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:32 ludwig- [~ludwig-@adsl-69-235-210-227.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:32 Fare: btw, (asdf:component-pathname (asdf:find-system :asdf)) returns a directory-only pathname here 20:10:58 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:31 -!- benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:14 fe[nl]ix: are you using asdf2? 20:17:24 benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:40 yes 20:17:44 2.001 20:18:01 I wonder what version Fare used to get his result earlier 20:20:59 I put :SERIES in the :use list of a package, but I'm getting this error http://paste.pocoo.org/show/224748 20:21:35 when eval (choose-if #'symbolp #Z(1 a b)) 20:23:32 leo2007: (series::install :macro t) 20:25:21 ost: thanks 20:26:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 20:27:59 when writing a macro I should use fully-qualified symbols for expansion, right? 20:29:30 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:33 ost: #M is also defined in GSLL (the main package I am using), is there a way around this without modifying the source code of series? 20:30:16 leo2007: a wrapper using named-readtables? 20:30:31 you could also try to change the macro 20:30:44 leo2007: use a different letter 20:31:03 leo2007: I don't know about named-readtables 20:31:21 so I'd have to change it in the series source, right? 20:31:36 leo2007: not really 20:32:34 leo2007: just define a dispatch macro character with the same macro function 20:32:54 ok 20:33:42 francogrex [~user@241.252-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:33:43 leo2007: as you can see theese reader macros are optional in series and not enabled by default 20:34:12 i see. 20:35:48 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:26 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 p_l: I have little clue about named-readtables :( 20:44:09 ost: is it a bit unusual, having to call (series::install) 20:45:31 leo2007: series is old 20:46:34 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:47:48 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:52 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:04 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:50:49 fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:02 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-58-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:24 -!- fade is now known as Fade 20:51:44 *Xach* tries a new clisp 20:53:08 antifuchs: can you decrease the git sync interval with the sourceforge cvs tree? 20:53:20 -!- francogrex [~user@241.252-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:33 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:54:47 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:44 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:49 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:08 d'oh. ulimit to the rescue. 20:58:05 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:28 antifuchs: or make the git sync be triggered by messages to sbcl-commits 20:59:14 Oh, right. I was going to work on that automatic version numbering hook thing. 20:59:57 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:37 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:09:07 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:23 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:12:24 Xach: I'm using asdf 2.000 21:12:48 Fare: what accounts for fe[nl]ix's result? 21:13:56 Xach: because asdf is special and he doesn't have asdf.asd in his path? 21:17:04 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.208.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:01 -!- JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:24:00 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.163.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:47 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.166.8] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:28:12 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 21:29:47 maden [~maden@dsl-159-100.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:36:45 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-159-100.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:15 aoriste [~user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:12 just found http://clqr.berlios.de/, cracking up laughing over page 23, on LOOP 21:40:56 After installing iolib (using sbcl) I am unable to require it - (require :iolib) throws an error "The Value (MEREGE-PATHNAMES (MAKE-PATHNAME :DIRECTORY '(:RELATIVE "iolib")) *LOAD-TRUENAME*) is not of type (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM).." any help? 21:41:30 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:41:44 spelling error 21:42:33 p_l: whose spelling error? 21:42:39 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:10 I typed out the error. I could paste it if you like - but thats the error. 21:43:43 ah. Then you need to open offending ASDF files and put #. before every (MERGE-PATHNAMES ... 21:44:15 *madnificent* keeps forgetting the #. syntax 21:44:56 shouldn't the maintainer of the iolib definition do that? 21:44:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45:32 <_8david> I don't get it. Has SBCL upgraded to ASDF2, and if not, where are all the bug reports coming from that relate to ASDF2 on SBCL? 21:46:27 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 maden [~maden@dsl-155-36.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:40 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-155-36.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:02 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 21:48:36 well, this seems to be working - though, its annoying that I must go through and edit each asd file.. this looks like a job for awk 21:49:52 -!- aoriste [~user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:09 using hunchentoot, when i try to have a form "post" to a handler, i see stuff like "Error when creating REQUEST object: # is not a binary input stream." in the hunchentoot logs. without much help from google, i don't know what is a next place to look to figure out what's up 21:52:58 -!- scottj [~scott@97-113-149-67.tukw.qwest.net] has left #lisp 21:53:10 why do people quit so quickly these days? 21:53:30 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A9B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:26 dulouz: looks like hunchentoot assumes the stream will be a binary stream and sbcl provides it with a string-input-stream :) 21:54:40 I've noticed a lot of young(er) users seem to treat irc a lot like instant messages. 21:55:07 dulouz: you could grep for something like "Error when creating REQUEST object:" (maybe replace REQUEST with \\w+) 21:55:18 when I was involved in the crisis commons haiti project, people would join the irc channels, blat a question or request and not even hang around for an acknowledgement. 21:55:55 dulouz: or you could see where initialize-instance of REQUEST is defined... that'd be my first guesses 21:56:06 it's not fun 21:56:17 nyef: the 35 minute cycle time is really a pain when one keeps making stupid mistakes 21:56:18 I read something and I want to help, but then I see they're off again 21:56:28 madnif: i'll give that a shot. i was under the impression that hunchentoot used chunga for streams 21:56:32 Yeah, I know. 21:56:54 I've complained about the cycle time myself recently. 21:57:02 it makes #lisp look like we don't want to help, just because they're too goddamend lazy to stick around for a second. Admittedly, I go AWK all the time after asking a question, but at least I'll come back for the answer 21:57:41 dulouz: it may well be, I really don't know 21:57:46 forms with method of "get" work fine. but that's beside the point. 21:57:54 last time I checked post worked just fine 21:58:22 i'm not using the latest hunchentoot, since i'd have to rewrite some stuff. i'm on 0.15.7 21:58:24 _8david, I use ASDF 2 with SBCL, even though it's not bundled 22:01:19 <_8david> Fare: I know that you are :-), but is aoriste? 22:02:04 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:02:06 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:02:45 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:50 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 aoriste: are you using the latest iolib? With what version of ASDF? 22:05:02 Fare: there's nobody by that nick 22:06:53 ehu: but there was 22:07:17 yup. he quit around 20 minutes ago 22:08:12 -!- Fare [~Fare@140.247.143.81] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:23 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:35 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:47 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:59 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:17:58 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:13 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:18:15 are there any lisp gtk2 bindings ? 22:18:20 dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:18:24 cl-gtk2 22:18:32 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:18:43 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2022FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:24 so readdir now calls readdir$INODE64 when appropriate. Do I need to add this to ldso-stubs.lisp? seems like everything is ok without it, but readdir is in there. 22:22:37 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:26 The stubs are primarily there for stuff that can't be found dynamically, I think. 22:23:57 Systems without dlsym(), systems without linkage-tables, etc. 22:24:01 readdir$INODE64? what lib uses that? 22:24:14 p_l: sb-posix. 22:24:19 (that scheme, I mean) 22:24:32 OSX. 22:24:36 ah 22:24:51 Part of the libc or similar. 22:25:22 slyrus: Now, how about trace :encapsulate nil? 22:25:35 yeah, it's just that I'd expect readdir64 22:25:46 heh. still building :) first I'm going to fix the bustage I introduced earlier in the week. almost done though. 22:25:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:26:05 nyef: so OSX is another system that uses $ in symbol names 22:26:05 (Notably, on ppc, as I'd expect it to actually be reliably implementable there.) 22:26:26 So is linux if you use -fdollars-in-identifiers or whatever it's called. 22:26:45 my connection just *had* to drop after that rant 22:26:59 nyef: yes, but you have to explicitly enable them, because they aren't frequently encountered on *nix 22:27:25 (otoh, VMS gcc config.h afaik had it as one of the first pragmas) 22:27:38 we use -fdollars-in-identifiers in the darwin Config files too 22:28:23 Yeah, -fdollars-in-identifiers has caused a few issues with darwin support in assembly code. 22:30:31 anyone going to review/commit foom's tls patch? 22:30:54 Oh, right, the can't cmpxchg eax or whatever it was? 22:31:16 I'll put that on my list for tomorrow if nobody gets to it first. 22:33:31 cool, thanks. 22:33:46 oh, btw, 0.9.xx.yy does build the HEAD on darwin/ppc! amazing... 22:34:06 Heh. 22:34:24 I'm respinning a self build and then I'll push the changes to get ppc back to building again. _then_ i'll take a look at your trace :encapsulate nil stuff. 22:34:51 Fair enough. Thanks. 22:35:03 oh, and it seems we're building without the dlshim on darwin/ppc 10.4. I think that means we can safely remove all traces of the dlshim. 22:35:19 no more :dlshim 22:35:32 Nice! 22:35:49 and darwin-langinfo just went away too :) 22:35:54 I'm actually thinking of moving my notion of "main machine" to my G5. 22:36:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:47 i've been using the core i3 box i built and hooked up to the big LCD TV more and more as my "main (home) machine". 22:36:52 it's nice and fast. 22:37:00 *p_l* is thinking of manipulation ld symboltable in runtime directly from lisp to fool libs... 22:37:05 And the display is nice? 22:37:49 yeah, it's a 40" toshiba regza doing 1080p over HDMI. only 1 cable, which is rather nice. 22:38:08 1080p on 40" screen... slightly too low dpi for me 22:38:13 it was a bit of an adventure getting ubuntu to do sound over the HDMI port, but eventually got it working. 22:38:22 (The main reason I'd move to the G5: I can do a vertical split in emacs and see a source file on each side without it being too cramped.) 22:38:26 p_l, yeah, I know what you mean, but it's kinda nice to sit 6 feet away from it. 22:39:24 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:48 heh. Well, I'm resolution junkie - when 1024x768 was standard for 17" displays, I ran maximum that kept ~80Hz on my display (good old manual clock setting!) 22:40:39 -!- oren [~oren@cpe-72-129-82-140.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:42:09 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 22:44:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:26 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:34 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:05 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:52:27 *p_l* ponders what IDA would make of SBCL 22:53:06 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:16 who ro what is ida? 22:53:44 It's a disassembler on steroids. 22:53:45 holycow: debugger/disassembler 22:53:50 ah! 22:53:58 danke 22:54:02 and yes, on steroids with SRBs 22:54:41 it made quite a good job of OpenGenera 22:55:03 SRBs? 22:55:18 Solid Rocket Boosters :) 22:55:27 (Only thing that comes to mind is... yeah, those.) 22:55:27 think the boosters on Space Shuttle :) 22:56:13 it also shown how big of a mess the snap4 (OG2 for amd64) is 22:57:11 even in console mode it's quite good 22:57:41 though lack of GUI on linux makes it less usable than on windows 22:58:17 WTF 22:58:24 mathrick: ? 22:58:26 why's slime-complete-symbol adding closing parens? 22:58:31 that breaks my paredit 22:58:38 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:56 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:04:13 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 23:04:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@athedsl-249610.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-182.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:51 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:58 what version/time is your checkout? mine is probably 3 days old and I don't have that 23:22:38 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:23 -!- benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:47 nyef: I think getting cross-compiling working on this box will be faster than using a bona-fide ppc box 23:31:04 benny [~user@i577A7164.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:12 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:03 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:52 *Xach* now fails to compile flexi-streams on ecl 23:41:30 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:43:07 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:47:25 -!- duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has quit [Quit: Nickname collision due to Services enforced nickname change, your nick was overruled] 23:50:34 _8david` [~user@pD95410A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:51:30 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d8189f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:29 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d8189f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:30 -!- _8david [~user@pD9541318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:01 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:57:16 duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has joined #lisp 23:57:53 http://paste.lisp.org/+2DXU 23:58:03 http://paste.lisp.org/+2DXU 23:58:12 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 23:58:23 check out my predicament please 23:58:39 i say, my trouble