00:01:20 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:23 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:18 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:07:54 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 00:07:58 Good morning! 00:09:08 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:09:39 anyone up for a how do i make this run faster exercise ? i am trying to grok how to do efficient io and would love to get some perspectives from other people 00:12:29 plage: i put some of my data & metadata online 00:12:36 -!- benny [~user@i577A1D0E.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:25 Dawgmatix: how fast does it have to be? 00:13:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111279 00:14:25 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-192-236.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:14:31 just merely interested in knowing a few things -> if its possible to read in a string into a buffer (because i dont need it after i write it right back into another file) 00:14:47 and if there are better options to read-sequence, write-sequence 00:15:16 read-sequence reads character data into a buffer 00:15:46 (for character streams) 00:16:52 yeah 00:17:36 you could avoid consing when iterating over subsequences.. 00:18:54 how @ adeht ? 00:19:48 xach - the read into the buffer works great (i tested it seperately it doesnt cons much). but when i try to read in the data from the buffer, it obviously conses. i was wondering if theres somehting like "read-into" 00:20:03 "Systems Concepts built a demonstration model of a laptop computer version of the PDP-10. It is not known whether this unit still exists." 00:20:06 heh 00:20:30 Dawgmatix: I don't understand that statement. 00:20:48 well, at least some consing.. don't use split-sequence, have a map-parts function that uses displaced vectors.. alternatively, have split-sequences use nsubseq (can have a :shared t option) 00:21:12 Dawgmatix: is this to further some specific goal? what's that goal? 00:21:33 There are all kinds of tricks you can do if you don't make a general solution. 00:21:36 dawg: read-sequence ? 00:23:04 well i am building some persistent data structures and am looking for ways to serialise / deserialise nodes 00:23:15 i know what the node structure looks like. 00:23:41 so my data dump looks like a single node per line in a text file 00:24:55 * looks up read-sequence * 00:26:09 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:26:21 Xach: URL? 00:26:41 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:31:16 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C3E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:34:05 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:04 plage: http://src.quicklisp.org/releases.txt http://src.quicklisp.org/systems.txt http://src.quicklisp.org/sources.txt 00:36:25 Dawgmatix: what's in a node? 00:37:01 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.161.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:15 three integers and two strings 00:38:08 marioxcc [~user@200.92.161.173] has joined #lisp 00:38:31 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:14 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:40:32 -!- seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:41:05 *adeht* wonders why there's no (setf array-dispacement) 00:41:49 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 00:41:59 adeht: that would be convenient 00:42:21 perhaps something that'd also take a new size 00:43:24 hmm maybe adjust-array should work 00:43:24 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.96] has joined #lisp 00:44:07 slightly less convenient 00:44:10 yeah, does work 00:48:22 aw [~aw@p5DDA8E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:55 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:59 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:54:01 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55:27 Xach: Thanks! 00:55:31 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:55:34 displaced arrays look a bit costly on sbcl :/ 00:56:05 *is trying out code with displaced arrays* 00:58:11 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:13 adeht: I recall mentions that displaced arrays were expected to be costly on anything other than lispmachine... 00:58:15 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 00:59:23 asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.22] has joined #lisp 01:00:37 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:00:53 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:01:31 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:02:23 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:14 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 01:04:46 I also don't like the name nsubseq, as it doesn't work for any sequence 01:05:38 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:24 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:08 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:07:27 -!- tic_ [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:47 -!- Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:10:50 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 01:13:37 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:16 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kwmdwabttasorkev] has joined #lisp 01:17:01 tic [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:18:22 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:19:06 I understand how loop and dolist are different, but can someone please give me some examples of when I should use which? 01:22:16 Just use what you like best. 01:22:18 I think you can use which ever one you like. I generally prefer dolist if loop would be just (loop for x in list ...). 01:22:36 I use dolist whenever I'd have to write something like (loop for element in list do (progn ...)) [yes, the progn is usually not needed] 01:26:07 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:17 aidalgol: it's simply a matter of being specific (see http://norvig.com/luv-slides.ps ) 01:27:31 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:24 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:37 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:34:16 benny [~user@i577A8E4D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:42 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:33 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kwmdwabttasorkev] has left #lisp 01:50:59 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:47 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:01:11 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA90BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:18 do people use emacs autoinsert or is there a better templating mode anyone knows of? 02:03:17 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:28 yasnippet seems pretty popular lately 02:03:57 cool, i'll give it a try. 02:04:22 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 02:04:35 good nights 02:08:48 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:11 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:28 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:10:42 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:12:59 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13:28 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-226.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:29 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-42.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:19 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:26 if I want to add some asm-coded operation in sbcl, is it correct that I have to do the following in order (i) defknown (ii) define-vop (iii) (defun foo (x) (foo x)) [which utilitizes open-coding] ? 02:24:04 pnq [asdf@ACA2ACAB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:49 Is there a function to evaluate an expression an arbitrary number of times? 02:26:32 Right not I have (loop for i from 0 while (< i 9) exp) to evaluate exp 10 times. 02:26:45 s/not/now 02:27:06 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:09 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:28 aidalgol: (loop repeat 10 ...) 02:28:18 adeht: Thanks! 02:28:59 aidalgol: look at the iterate library too 02:30:03 derrida: Is that covered in "Common Lisp The Language" or the CLHS? 02:30:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:16 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 02:30:17 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:22 aidalgol: no 02:30:24 aidalgol: also, if you needed I, you could (loop for i from 0 below 10 ...) [you don't actually need the from 0] 02:30:47 aidalgol: http://www.cliki.net/iterate 02:31:08 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:12 this link is better http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate 02:36:52 There is also dotimes 02:37:12 -!- dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:49 That's better if you want a variable (which I don't). :) 02:39:48 aidalgol: the iterate docs have a nice section on extending iterate to create whatever iteration patterns you want 02:40:22 derrida: Thanks, I'll skim though them. :) 02:40:47 i found it pretty cool. :) 02:41:46 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:45:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-144.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:30 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:16 nuntius [~nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:05 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:00:35 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00:48 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:34 psilord [~psilord@76.204.99.135] has joined #lisp 03:01:54 Hello, I have a question about why sbcl is giving me a particular warning on a piece of code in the REPL. 03:01:58 http://paste.lisp.org/+2DV6 03:01:59 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6642b1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 03:02:07 The first warning, I understand, the second one, not so much. 03:02:22 I'm using sbcl 1.0.38.5 03:02:27 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:32 adeht: pretty much, although the last step is optional. There are more complex ways if you have specialised needs. 03:03:36 psilord: you can't use SETF without first DEFVARing or DEFPARAMETERing the global special. 03:04:14 Ah, that explains it. Thanks! 03:04:18 pkhuong: ok.. I'll be studying sb-rotate-byte now ;) 03:05:13 adeht: The last step is useful to see that you've done everything correctly. If not, you'll get a warning about recursive known function. 03:06:21 it's also useful when a form calling the operator is interpreted, is it not? 03:07:33 adeht: right, or with higher order function or when the :safety/:speed conditions don't appl 03:10:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:14:24 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:29 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:56 -!- tootroot [~baka@unaffiliated/tootroot] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:19:58 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 03:20:11 tootroot [~baka@omega.talkflack.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:11 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.161.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:41 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:29 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 03:23:59 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:39 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:00 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:25:37 -!- duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:42 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:26:57 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:17 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:27:21 RustyWheeler [~kliese@campsis.eait.uq.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:34:12 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:57 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:01 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 03:42:32 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: have a good night] 03:42:41 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-71-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:38 -!- sword [~sword@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:45 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:52:04 hello 03:55:22 symbole_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:34 hello ost 03:58:03 -!- nuntius [~nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:17 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-108-89.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:59:33 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-253-120.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00:22 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ouuxqydlzlvgmrpa] has joined #lisp 04:00:45 is the difference between source-transforms and compiler-macros that the former pass if the user's arglist does not match the source-transform's? 04:01:02 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:05 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-157-111.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:01:20 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:54 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:57 (something that can be achieved using compiler macros, actually?.. there must be some other difference) 04:04:46 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:17 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:06:18 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:18 also, comment says "Source transforms should not examine their arguments." but many obviously do? 04:07:38 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:31 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 04:08:35 G'day! 04:08:39 hi plage 04:10:10 adeht: Is "source transform" something implementation-specific? 04:10:19 plage: yes, sbcl 04:12:08 adeht: Could it just be that they put that in place before the standard had compiler macros? 04:12:53 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Time's up!] 04:14:40 maybe, but I'd bet that there is a crucial difference that I'm not aware of 04:16:23 *_3b* thought it was something to do with running later in compilation, so having more useful information about the environment available 04:17:37 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:36 *_3b* might be thinking of deftransform instead though 04:22:56 duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has joined #lisp 04:23:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:27:34 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-84-44-140-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:27:34 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:27:47 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:28:21 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.204.99.135] has left #lisp 04:33:31 dysinger [~dysinger@67.201.78.8] has joined #lisp 04:37:41 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has joined #lisp 04:37:49 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:41:47 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@67.201.78.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:44:36 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:45:57 looks like there are differences wrt efficiency notes and use of *macroexpand-hook* 04:51:05 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:51:09 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:51:54 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 04:52:11 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:52:11 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:52:16 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:51 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:53:17 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:19 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:43 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:57:39 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:59:34 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-253.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:00:42 Samy [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:57 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:07:36 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:11:01 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-210-164.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:52 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:13:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:14:27 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:40 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:17:21 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:17 alama [~alama@a95-95-134-185.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 05:19:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:19 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:23 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:29:02 is there other packages like alexandria that provides general programming functions/macros? 05:31:07 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 05:31:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:31:57 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-253.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:32:21 leo2007: there are tons of them 05:33:13 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-155.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:34:06 adeht: could you name the top 5? 05:34:35 there is no top 5, everyone is using their own 05:35:16 arnesi, cl-utilities, de.setf.utility, fare-utils, kmrcl, metatilities, s-utils, etc. 05:35:59 i think only alexandria is used somewhat more universally 05:36:15 yeah 05:36:18 add to that various small or specialized packages (f-underscore, fset, some reader macro stuff etc.) 05:36:18 adeht: thanks. Those are new to me and I'll look into them right away ;) 05:37:36 there's also anaphora 05:37:45 Can ABCL generate .class files? 05:38:06 p_l: thanks too 05:38:46 sykopomp: ABCL uses a non-standard format 05:38:48 p_l: but you'll be subjected to anathema if you use it 05:39:05 p_l: :( 05:39:26 I keep trying to get started with android dev. 05:39:33 but this whole Java + XML thing is such a turnoff. 05:40:27 it does sound like ABCL may still work for writing the bulk of the backend code, though, which is nice... 05:41:03 sykopomp: I had a superficial look at android guide (not having an android device :).. it doesn't look too complicated 05:41:25 adeht: it's not too complicated, no. 05:41:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:41:49 set up a bunch of activities, describe them in the xml etc. 05:42:03 well, describe their layout, at least. I'm still reading about it. 05:42:09 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 05:42:54 stassats: I thought that usage of curly would subject me to anathema... 05:43:10 there seems to be a large overlap between cl-utilities and alexandria, no? 05:43:32 still -- out of comfort zone. Even emacs is somewhat unusable for editing the code. It seems like I'm pretty much stuck with Eclipse + Java + XML. 05:43:50 leo2007: yes 05:43:51 adeht: http://paste.lisp.org/display/105701 05:44:08 adeht: does one supersede another? 05:44:16 p_l: I saw this :) 05:44:29 when are they going to make a lisp-based smart-phone? 05:45:07 whenever you find some free time, of course! 05:45:11 leo2007: obviously not, as neither of them includes the other one 05:45:47 (or has better alternatives to the missing functionality) 05:46:04 sykopomp: i have plenty 05:46:16 leo2007: you'll find that this is also the case with other such libraries 05:46:28 psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.144.224] has joined #lisp 05:46:32 *p_l* is tempted to say "put an alpha into smartphone, OSF/1 and OpenGenera"...) 05:46:48 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@76.201.144.224] has left #lisp 05:47:00 adeht: do you use one or both? 05:47:03 leo2007: however cl-utilities may be less interesting than the others 05:47:03 stassats: honestly, having a nice lisp stack that abstracts the Java and XML and allows for interactive dev on android would be a dream come true. 05:47:11 though I believe you'd need quite a bit of new stuff for 3D access :D 05:47:27 sykopomp: interactive dev is going to be hard 05:47:34 although it seems just about everyone is feeling the hurt here. There's very few languages that can both work _and_ perform well on top of Dalvik. 05:47:41 leo2007: personally I remember using arnesi, kmrcl, and s-utils out of that list 05:47:48 and of course alexandria 05:48:26 p_l: really? Would it be that hard to just start up a swank server on the phone?... 05:48:29 leo2007: I also have my own lame utilities library :) 05:49:10 sykopomp: the issue would be in implementation details, I mean 05:50:03 can't you run native code on android? 05:50:14 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:31 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 05:50:32 stassats: partially. 05:50:38 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:45 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:50 adeht: I think that'll will be a natural next step for me too. 05:50:52 stassats: you can, but access to most services is through Dalvik VM so you need some crazy shit going to dynamically manipulate it 05:50:56 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:50:58 stassats: even if you use the NDK, you have to set up a lot of stuff on the Java and XML side. 05:51:07 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:30 it doesn't seem like ECL or CLISP officially support ARM, either? 05:51:58 or just, put your lisp in the cloud! 05:52:00 adeht: the function f(t) that describes the possibility of a developer writing his own utility library (t is time) reaches asymptotic 1 quite fast 05:52:17 stassats: :( 05:53:01 sykopomp: I think clisp has an ARM port 05:53:14 both work on ARM 05:53:33 (though some CLISP internals made me curse the dev. who wrote it) 05:53:54 hmm 05:55:41 adeht: are you in London? 05:55:46 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-134-185.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 05:56:30 the function describing a probability of cursing developers of the internals grows proportionally to the size of a project 05:56:53 leo2007: nope, Israel 06:00:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:01:00 -!- RustyWheeler [~kliese@campsis.eait.uq.edu.au] has left #lisp 06:03:46 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:11 -!- rtra_ [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:05:11 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:24 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:09:30 sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:26 vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:11:05 -!- vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:16 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:10 -!- symbole_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:57 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-186.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:38 -!- rme [rme@clozure-A0F87EC.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:19:38 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-135-165.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:21:22 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 06:22:23 ice_man`` [~user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:30 I'm stuck again: (defmacro lst () '(foo bar)) (loop for a in (lst) do (print a)) 06:22:55 is FOO a function? 06:23:20 stassats: no it is supposed to be used as symbols. 06:24:11 -!- ice_man` [~user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:24:50 that clue wasn't enough. so, after expansion it becomes (loop for a in (foo bar) do (print a)) 06:26:24 -!- andreer_ is now known as andreer 06:27:10 stassats: the defmacro declares a bunch of sql-fields. And that loop takes those fields, append a prefix to create a unique variable. The loop is part of another macro, like (with-sql-fields (table prefix) body) thing. 06:27:40 lhz: whatever. but you still don't understand why it's not working? 06:28:14 stassats: yeah, skip my purpose rant :) I like the expansion to be (loop for a in '(foo bar) do (print a)) or (loop for a in (loop 'foo 'bar) do (print a)) 06:28:47 lhz: so, you need to modify your macro accordingly 06:28:59 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-186.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:30:23 see, macro is just an ordinary function which produces code, nothing fancy, so you need to say explicitly what code you want from it 06:30:37 stassats: I understand why it doesn't work. It just inserts (foo bar) instead of (lst) like it should. But I cant figure out to quote it. 06:30:55 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:30:58 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31:04 lhz: well, that's it, just quote it one more time 06:32:46 ' is just a shorthand for (quote ...) so your macro needs to return (quote (foo bar)) which can be done with '(quote (foo bar)) or just ''(foo bar) 06:33:56 stassats: I can't change that macro because it delivers the fields elsewhere too. Cant I fix that at expansion? 06:35:09 sounds like you're doing something wrong 06:35:56 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:36:04 -!- dlandau [~dlandau@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:36:27 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:31 dlandau [dlandau@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 06:37:20 You want (defmacro lst () ''(foo bar)) 06:37:36 that's what he said! 06:37:43 weird 06:38:02 he being me 06:39:31 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:39:31 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:51 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:26 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:41:00 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 06:42:38 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:42:56 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2ACAB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:43:45 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:07 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:44:30 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 06:47:45 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:48:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:58 good morning 06:49:00 Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has joined #lisp 06:49:58 hey mvilleneuve 06:52:20 yeah, I'm doing it wrong, I wanted it to be declarative, it got raw. 06:53:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:56:51 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:35 -!- hse-hoens [~test@nd-129-74-109-181.nat.nd.edu] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 06:58:06 -!- Beetny 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[Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:00 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111150.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:18 spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:07 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 11:09:11 Good evening! 11:10:24 Oh, *very* quiet here. 11:11:02 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:11:07 ur in au? 11:11:26 JuanDaugherty: Me? I am in Vietnam right now. 11:11:38 ah, same tz 11:11:55 Could be, yes. 11:12:04 Good Morning, Vietnam! 11:14:17 In about 15 hours, you all have to be here, because I give a Lisp talk to the students, and I intend to show off #lisp in real time. 11:15:01 *Xach* hopes there will be a vigorous on-topic discussion at that time 11:17:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:18:08 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:19:08 Oh, dear. Someone has told the restaurant staff I am learning Vietnamese, so now they all try to talk to me in in Vietnamese, without much success, because I learned the Ha Noi pronunciation. 11:19:25 That's exactly the sort of thing that will spice up the discussion in 15 hours. 11:20:10 Perhaps we can get Fare to say something intelligent that is both on-topic and in Vietnamese. 11:21:08 drewc: I have a fun project if you have an hour 11:21:55 Riqpe [riqpe@194.187.214.67] has joined #lisp 11:21:55 drewc: I'm interested in a static database of, for each project (or maybe system), what symbols it exports and every docstring/context available for those symbols. 11:22:13 -!- Riqpe [riqpe@194.187.214.67] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:24 should be easy to snapshot the package system and diff it to find out what each system introduces 11:24:07 i'd like to produce a database that can be used as an all-projects apropos search 11:24:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:24:49 That sounds pretty useful. 11:25:25 and i hope not too hard to make. i don't have an hour to spare today, though. 11:26:11 That's not something that absolutely has to be done today, though, I imagine. 11:27:03 *JuanDaugherty* recalls the saw of doubling a programmers time estimates. Maybe triple would be better. 11:28:33 It used to be the case that COBOL programmers doubled and then added 10%, whereas Fortran programmers multiplied by pi. 11:31:33 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:16 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:46 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-42.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53:29 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 11:56:54 "28°C, feels like 32.4°C" perhaps it's the opportunity to go for a walk. 11:57:49 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:09 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-155.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:02 is there any way to write a list function using cons only? 12:02:27 sure 12:02:59 depends on what you mean by "only" anyway 12:03:23 Im having a go at one of the questions in common lisp a gentle introduction and I can do it using list and cons but I cant do it with cons only 12:03:33 just wondering whether its possible at all 12:03:38 prolly cdr + cons and other elem ops 12:03:42 madmuppet006: you need some way to express a condition to terminate recursivity, but yes. 12:03:42 what do you use list for? 12:04:03 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 12:05:24 the question is Draw the dotted list ((A . B) (C . D) I can do that using (list (cons a b)(cons c d)) 12:05:44 aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has joined #lisp 12:05:55 yes, in this case, you can do it with cons only. 12:06:31 plage: not absolutely, no. i wish i could strike at the problem when my enthusiasm is very high, though. 12:07:06 hello plage 12:07:40 k guess Ill give it another go ..:) thanks all 12:07:47 madmuppet006: one way to do it would be to draw the whole expression as a tree on paper. 12:07:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 12:08:36 madmuppet006: you may want to build the simpler expression (A B) with cons only, first. 12:09:00 that would be (cons a b) 12:09:00 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:09:07 madmuppet006: no. 12:09:42 (cons a b) results in (a . b), not (a b). 12:10:05 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:11:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:11:52 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:13:20 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:13:40 (cons 'a '(b)) returns (a b) 12:14:15 madmuppet006: you cheated with '(b) :-) 12:15:05 thanks ..:p extending it to the other problem doesnt work so it gets me no cookie points 12:15:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@pd95c2932.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:02 the other problem has a proper toplevel list, so you need to know how to create a proper list first. 12:16:10 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17:12 -!- nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:13 (cons 'a (cons 'b nil)) -> (a b). 12:17:16 kuwabara: the book says that a proper list is a cons chain ending in nil 12:17:32 but I cant see an example of that 12:17:39 Exactly. No nil, no proper list. 12:17:54 see my example 4 lines up. 12:18:31 yes I tried something similar .. I must have got some syntax wrong 12:20:22 if you can still get it back from your history, try to understand what was wrong, you will learn something out of it. 12:21:25 kuwabara:thanks for the help I appreciate it 12:22:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:22:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 12:22:29 "Natural Language Processing in Lisp/Prolog/Pop11", have anyone read that one, and if so, do you recommend it? 12:24:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:50 hypno: haven't read it, but looks a bit out of date 12:28:08 yeah... haven't found any other NLP-book with Lisp tho so far. 12:29:57 Nevermind Lisp in this context. It is absolutely amazing what anyone with a copy of NLTK in his hands can do today, just out of the box after 5 minutes of setup. 12:30:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:31:22 Does anyone know what the head and tail slots of a slice in gsharp are for? 12:31:37 hey mvilleneuve 12:31:48 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:57 lichtblau: Oh, I didn't know about NLTK, thanks. Perhaps that is an easier route than starting in CL from scratch, heh. 12:32:14 [sorry, I am engaged in a very interesting conversation with Miss Quyen, the supervisor at this restaurant] 12:33:08 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@65.10.101.91] has joined #lisp 12:39:57 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:40:08 -!- madmuppet006 [~alexander@203-211-98-150.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:32 delYsid: I certainly do, yes. 12:41:33 delYsid: There are parts of a musical phrase that temporally starts before the beat starts. 12:41:34 dysinger [~dysinger@67.201.78.8] has joined #lisp 12:43:00 aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:46:14 delYsid: And I wanted the user to be able to treat such a phrase as a musically interesting unit, independently of how it shows up in time. 12:46:43 delYsid: Having said that, I don't know any use for the tail, but then, why rule it out? 12:50:15 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:18 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:51:22 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:39 -!- nuba [~nuba@64.150.190.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:47 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:04 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 12:52:06 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:20 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:55:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 12:55:55 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has left #lisp 12:55:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:14 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 12:57:00 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:57:17 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111150.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:58:12 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:41 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has left #lisp 12:59:45 delYsid: Did that make sense? 13:01:43 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:48 so it is (as I guessed somehow) for representing upbeat (is that the correct word) phrases..., i.e. if the first measure (bar) is incomplete... 13:03:26 delYsid: That sounds right, yes. I learned the terminology in Swedish, so I am not sure what it's called in English. 13:03:33 Then I guess I spotted an error in the playback code, where it doesn't consider head and tail, only body, in some places. 13:04:03 delYsid: Very likely so, yes. Do you have a patch? I'll put it in! 13:04:16 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C43F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:56 I could try to refind it, I just spotted it and went confused on the meaning of head and tail 13:05:02 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:05:22 delYsid: Totally understandable. 13:05:23 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:05:51 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest92486 13:06:11 argiopeweb [~elliot@66.42.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:24 I'd like to get gsharp running without mcclim (i.e., only the backend), but it has quite some ties into clim mop and such... 13:06:56 It does, yeah. 13:07:00 CLIM is (unfortunately) totally useless to me, so gsharp is basically just interesting as a playground for music representation experiments. 13:07:24 I am sorry to hear CLIM is useless to you. 13:08:21 I am sure its cool and all, but I am blind and cant see it. 13:08:34 and it doesnt have any accessibility stuff in place, neither in the spec nor anywhere else 13:09:52 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 13:10:03 (well, of course a lot of stuff could be coded, but the thing is just too complex for me to get myself bootstrapped in any way) 13:10:45 aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has joined #lisp 13:11:18 delYsid: I see your point. However, reading the CLIM spec was how I became convinced that it is an order of magnitude better than anything else out there, PLUS, it was how I understood how crucially different CLOS is from other object systems. 13:12:18 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:13:09 Yeah, you have a point there, I really should reread it and try if something pos up in my mind. 13:14:06 delYsid: Take your time though. Sometimes we are not ripe for too radical differences from what we are used to. 13:14:43 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:52 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 13:14:53 Still, accessibility is a problem people tend to underestimate, and CLIM looks particularily hard since its so flexible. The more flexible a system is, the harder you'll get it accessible all the way through. 13:15:22 delYsid: I am willing to believe you. I haven't given it any thought. 13:16:04 *plage* wishes everyone a good night. 13:16:08 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 13:16:15 plathanks for your input 13:17:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:28 G'morning all. 13:21:12 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:56 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:18 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:29 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 13:27:35 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:40 aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has joined #lisp 13:27:48 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:29:53 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:07 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn407.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:37:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ouuxqydlzlvgmrpa] has left #lisp 13:38:08 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:17 Hmm, does sbcl maintain an internal docstring database of some kind? 13:39:08 all i know is that some docstrings in sbcl are broken 13:39:09 I think it just stuffs docstrings into the infodb. 13:39:20 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:15 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/565737 13:40:34 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:41:22 Ah, right. 13:41:40 Never really was impressed with the whole "closures for slot accessors" thing. 13:42:55 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:44:09 davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has joined #lisp 13:46:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:08 nyef: What's the infodb? 13:48:25 It's also known as the "globaldb". 13:48:59 It's basically the central repository for a lot of information the compiler needs to keep track of. 13:49:17 And it's also where the mapping from symbol to function is stored. 13:53:58 pjb` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:59 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:12 Harag [~Harag@41.208.201.216] has joined #lisp 13:55:09 tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.46] has joined #lisp 13:55:31 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb-at-work 13:56:22 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@67.201.78.8] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 13:57:41 ska` [~user@124.157.196.127] has joined #lisp 13:58:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has left #lisp 13:59:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 the DOCUMENTATION documentation talks about specializing on a method-combination object. Is there a way to get a method-combination object, given its name? 14:00:57 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:01:02 *Xach* can't find one 14:01:18 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:53 mop:find-method-combination 14:02:06 oh, i see, it has designator-like behavior in DOCUMENTATION. you can pass a symbol method-combination name and 'cl:method-combination as the second argument 14:02:28 stassats: that doesn't seem to be quite what i'm asking. 14:04:46 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:00 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:06:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 14:07:05 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:08:03 fiveop [~fiveop@g229145122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:33 fe[nl]ix: is it possible to make a static vector from a supplied pointer in any of the implementations? 14:11:38 not with exported functions 14:11:57 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:26 Allegro has one static vector type where the header is in lisp space and the pointer in the foreign heap 14:12:50 but I don't think they have an exported function that builds such a vector from a pointer 14:13:08 fe[nl]ix: I see. 14:14:02 I'm looking at impl-sbcl and wondering if an already-allocated pointer can be substituted for static-alloc. 14:14:29 segv [~mb@p4FC1A855.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:31 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1A855.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:12 no, because the array header is next to the data 14:16:20 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has joined #lisp 14:16:55 Oh, OK. I thought I remember reading some caution that space may be allocated in foreign memory but that must have been referring to ACL then. 14:17:03 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:18:32 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:04 maden [~maden@dsl-149-144.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 14:19:18 rtoym: hey, you're in good company. it seems that scieneer has the same problem. 14:19:46 Xach: which problem ? 14:20:50 fe[nl]ix: it doesn't merge with *default-pathname-defaults* properly for filesystem interaction 14:20:58 Xach: Heh. I guess nobody tests those functions either. 14:21:03 e.g. (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #p"/etc/")) (probe-file "passwd")) 14:21:05 => nil 14:21:17 *Xach* emails dtc 14:21:27 I think cmucl gets that one right. It was just missing a few others. 14:21:42 ah, cmucl does 14:21:57 Xach: Did you get to test out the temporary fix for cmucl? 14:22:04 rtoym: i didn't, sorry. 14:22:13 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.86] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 14:22:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:32 No problem. 14:23:43 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:24:39 rtoym: if you're at the cmucl repl, is there another way to change its concept of the current directory? 14:25:04 (setf (default-directory) "newdir") 14:25:17 Doesn't change *d-p-d*, though. 14:25:43 ahhh 14:26:02 *rtoym* has thought about making (setf default-directory) automatically change *d-p-d*. 14:26:03 What does that do? Change the underlying posix working directory? 14:26:18 I think so. Let me check.... 14:26:19 i.e. chdir()? 14:26:23 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex094.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:26:27 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:27:15 damn connection 14:27:16 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:27:21 Xach: Yep. 14:28:06 Xach: fwiw, (documentation 'standard 'method-combination) returns NIL on SBCL while, (documentation (sb-mop:find-method-combination (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'generic-function)) 'standard nil) t) => "The standard method combination." 14:28:13 I guess you could also do (unix:unix-chdir "path") instead of (setf default-directory). 14:29:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111053 is pretty compelling 14:30:28 stassats: thanks 14:30:35 -!- Samy [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:43 though i can't figure out what the first argument to f-m-c should be, portably, MOP says "generic function metaobject." 14:32:21 dlowe: a compelling example that the author does not know LOOP, not its extensible variants? 14:33:03 Guest92486: Pretty snarky for a guest nick 14:33:15 -!- Guest92486 is now known as pkhuong 14:33:29 *nor 14:34:15 dlowe: does anyone really write (loop for x = 0 then (1+ x) ...) ? 14:34:22 the part about the "note ITERATE's lack of parallel binding 14:34:36 seems to work with any generic function as an argument, but i'm not sure 14:34:52 " is the one thing I really dislike about ITERATE. I wonder whether attila_lendvai's great rewrite will have the same restriction. 14:35:10 ok, he doesn't know LOOP that well 14:35:14 *rtoym* still likes series.... 14:35:37 I like the interface of series. Not the implementation so much. 14:35:56 adeht: I often write (loop for x = 0 then (function-of x) ...) 14:36:00 Perhaps it's just because I'm used to LOOP's inner workings in my head, but "that's by design" seems like an unconvincing excuse. 14:36:38 I don't have a problem with the lack of parallel bindings. Being able to use collect anywhere in the body is pretty spiffy, though 14:36:48 tfb: sure, that's not the example however 14:37:23 adeht: certainly I can't see using the example as stands 14:38:08 *tfb* has just looked at the paste, it's pretty spurious as a comparison, sorry! 14:39:16 lichtblau: that sum example at the end of that paste works fine in reiterate 14:39:37 *attila_lendvai* adds it as a test 14:41:20 attila_lendvai: nice. Will there also be the distinction between FOR and AND FOR as in LOOP? 14:41:39 *attila_lendvai* reads up on AND FOR 14:42:23 why aren't there start/end clauses for across/in-vector 14:42:59 or strided iteration. 14:43:03 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:50 pkhuong: do you have a link about that at hand? 14:45:05 I recall another nicety about iterate is that it has a using index clause 14:45:59 attila_lendvai: about what? 14:46:16 pkhuong: strided iteration 14:47:12 attila_lendvai: it just means iterating across elements x_a, x_{a+s}, x_{a+2s} ... 14:47:58 hmm 14:48:20 loop for i from 0 to whatever by s ? 14:48:37 but applied to across/in-vector I guess 14:49:41 ah, STEP s 14:49:46 there's FOR x ON y BY z of course :) 14:54:48 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:12 *attila_lendvai* added start/end support for reiterate. thanks for the idea adeht! :) 14:55:29 (iter (for i :in-vector #(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) :start 1 :end 6 :step 2) (collect i)) => (2 4 6) 14:56:59 dysinger [~dysinger@conference/railsconf/x-madzgwjsehwnnlcm] has joined #lisp 14:58:10 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-lljrpmrjsbopvodf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:00:13 "collect and friends can be anywhere" -- including those friends which do other things 15:00:40 adeht: USING INDEX means that the index variable is visible? reiretare supports mutable places while iretating on sequences using the :mutable t keyword for FOR/GENERATE 15:01:09 "iretare", hmm? :-) 15:01:16 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:24 _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:01:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:01:29 that feels like latin for "to slow down" ;-) 15:02:02 Krystof: i'm considering disallowing for/with/generate/friend in non-toplevel positions, but then it pretty much hinders constucting complex loops using macros. although that can become messy quickly... 15:02:10 heh :( 15:02:16 argh, i mean :) 15:02:40 attila_lendvai: well, the example I'm thinking of is count 15:03:16 I don't want my perfectly valid calls to CL:COUNT to be rewritten 15:03:51 Xof: ah. i'm also planning to use the fooing naming convention and by default ignore collect/count/etc 15:04:03 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:13 couting, summing, collecting, etc 15:04:19 -!- leadnose_ [leadnose@kapsi.fi] has left #lisp 15:05:07 well, COLLECT doesn't collide with anything in CL. It's (only?) COUNT that the original authors must have overlooked. 15:05:58 Reasonable compatibility with classic iterate would be nice, and renaming something as important as COLLECT to COLLECTING would break having it as a drop-in-replacement. 15:06:03 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:10 there is no append? 15:06:31 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:38 -!- pjb-at-work [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:39 no, that is already APPENDING in classic iterate 15:07:00 copec [~copecd@64.244.102.130] has joined #lisp 15:07:07 i'm planning to put together a package for drop-in replacement... 15:07:48 although, i'll never use that, so... i'm not sure i want to test something that is of no use for me 15:08:29 people should keep their code warning free, and then it's a matter of a simple package replace and a recompile and going through fixing the warnings 15:09:18 attila_lendvai: yeah I think :mutable should cover for many cases 15:09:29 -!- yacin_ is now known as yacin 15:11:04 HG` [~HG@xdslex094.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:46 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:47 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:56 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:00 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.151.95] has joined #lisp 15:17:01 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:17:47 -!- duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has quit [Quit: Nickname collision due to Services enforced nickname change, your nick was overruled] 15:18:30 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:18:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-108-89.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rvzdbbwijzmzsxlw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:34 hello does exist a non hanging version of peek-char as there is one for read-char ? 15:24:11 (when (listen stream) (peek-char stream)) 15:24:14 I have the impression that the libraries for common lisp has a much lower quality compared to those of haskell or python. Do you have similar impression? 15:24:26 have* 15:26:16 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 15:27:47 leo2007: My impression is that the distribution of quality is about the same, but the quantity is much, much lower 15:27:50 I think your impression of the quality of python libraries is optimistic 15:28:04 I don't know about Haskell. 15:28:56 duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has joined #lisp 15:29:40 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.196.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:57 leo2007: haskell lib quality is not that high judging from darcs... they had/have loads of issues with unicode and stuff 15:30:11 although that might be darcs itself 15:30:20 stassats, thx 15:32:07 attila_lendvai: the haskell ecosystem has recently (last ~1 year) got better with unicode and everything. 15:32:58 yeah, haskell is going up. cabal and stuff like that actually seems usable, even as a mostly outsider 15:32:58 kiuma: If there's no peek-char-no-hang, how about just doing a read-char-no-hang followed by an unread-char? 15:33:20 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:24 -!- hdurer [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:19 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-135-165.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 haskell's libraries are much better organised. It is like going into a good library building. 15:37:18 with ancient egyptian scrolls 15:38:35 oh, now i get why alexandria, the utilities collection, is called so 15:39:11 Xach: most common lisp libs have little activities particularly those on common-lisp.net. 15:39:36 stassats: Also explains why some people would rather burn said utilities collection than have it as a dependency, right? 15:40:06 nyef: i just steal little by little 15:40:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:12 Book burning is never good 15:40:26 Scrolls probably nearly as bad 15:40:41 leo2007: eh ?? 15:41:31 nyef: Do you not care for alexandria much? 15:41:43 I don't care for the dependency. 15:42:22 nyef, yea it was what I was thinking before asking, I don't know which is the best way 15:42:29 ws [wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 Alexandria (fasl and source) is a grand total of 890kB on my system 15:43:13 usually i already have alexandria as a dependency indirectly 15:43:16 krl [~user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:57 -!- benny [~user@i577A8E4D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 15:44:21 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.1a2pre/20100529120327]] 15:44:35 -!- ws [wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl] has left #lisp 15:44:39 If you took out the test and documentation it would be 577Kb 15:44:42 -!- v0|d [~user@213.232.33.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:51 nyef: your fear of dependencies is a sign that the lib related infrastrucutre in cl is non-existent 15:45:21 Quite possibly. 15:45:28 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202895.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:38 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:46:05 Alternately, the infrastructure might be present and the quality of the actual libs just down in the noise floor. 15:46:06 what's needed is a "distribution" with a structure mirroring the various free unix distros 15:47:13 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 15:48:02 You build up a large number of libraries, make them work together, make the repository searchable and secure, release security patches and bug fixes when they come out, feature releases every year or so 15:48:15 All that's missing is the will to do it :p 15:48:42 Okay, I have a seagate barracuda 7200.7 OEM drive with a tendency to lose interrupts. The data seems fine, just the interrupts go missing. Now what? 15:49:22 Stattrav [~Stattrav@123.238.45.233] has joined #lisp 15:50:10 nyef: Have you ran a SMART test on it 15:50:22 There could be other non evident issues 15:50:29 Not yet. 15:51:24 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:15 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:37 benny [~user@i577A37A1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:19 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:59:33 -!- nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:39 _danb_` [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:02:47 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:39 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:04:54 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:42 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex094.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:49 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:10:36 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:54 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:12:10 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:29 The smart error logs and tests are indicating a read failure. :-/ 16:12:49 -!- duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:13 tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.94] has joined #lisp 16:14:16 dlowe: A lot of people seem to want to do something like that. 16:14:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:15:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:19:46 duckinator [~nick@botters/staff/duckinator] has joined #lisp 16:20:06 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 16:20:13 binarin` [~user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-136-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:39 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:20:39 cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-66-177-48-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:54 -!- _danb_` [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:05 _danb_` [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 brickhazel [~brickhaze@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 16:23:04 nyef: Doesn't sound promising, old hdd? 16:23:26 -!- binarin [~user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24:09 You are best to heed the warnings of a dodgy hdd and move to a new one, I'm sure you realise that anyway. 16:26:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:10 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:45 aw [~aw@89.204.137.68] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.208.201.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:59 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:36:26 I'm not even -using- that disk, actually. 16:36:45 Though I really wouldn't mind rescuing the OS install from it. 16:36:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:21 -!- _danb_` [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:46 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:49 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:43:02 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 16:43:18 -!- aw [~aw@89.204.137.68] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 16:43:52 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:31 diog3n3s [~mlove@pluto.ngdc.noaa.gov] has joined #lisp 16:49:13 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:54 lichtblau: is there value in making a distinction between FOR and AND FOR? i so much never seemed to miss it that i only now read about the difference. (for now i've just used a let* for binding...) 16:50:31 -!- cerebral_monkey [~berkley@c-66-177-48-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:55 Hmm. It is entirely possible that most uses of FOR xxx AND FOR yyy could, in iterate, be rewritten as (iter (let (xxx yyy))), hence by-passing FOR entirely. 16:52:04 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:51 In LOOP, I've had to use AND regularly, so I've hit the problem when converting from LOOP to ITERATE, and it's very easy to get the conversion wrong. I imagine that other people switching to ITERATE might also be annoyed because of it. 16:53:21 nyef: If you are still mounting the drive within another OS install it can fail; my recent hdd fail happened like that. I knew it was going to fail and had stopped using it but was still mounting it as part of my new OS install, it eventually crashed. 16:53:31 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:54:29 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 16:54:33 Most of my use cases could probably be solved nicely using PREVIOUS. Still an extra hurdle to think about. 16:54:48 It's not set auto-mount, and I may well pull the cables. 16:55:05 I don't want to pull the drive entirely because I don't really have anything else to go in that slot. 16:55:54 *attila_lendvai* is scared about the loops using AND in the ansi test suite 16:56:00 s/about/of/ 16:57:10 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:58:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:00:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:01:06 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:06 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:01:06 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:03:54 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:42 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:03 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.151.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:15 hello all 17:06:52 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:07:49 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:09:01 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:40 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.122.245] has joined #lisp 17:10:59 X-02 [~schopenha@p2108-ipbf401kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-136-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:12:07 nyef: ping 17:12:19 fe[nl]ix: pong. 17:13:05 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/+2DVJ 17:14:06 nyef: does that seem reasonable functionality ? 17:14:58 will lisppaste ever have xml-rpc again? 17:15:08 stassats: Once we're sure it won't be abused. 17:15:34 maybe adding some authentication? 17:16:05 like gpg signing 17:16:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:16:37 fe[nl]ix: Seems reasonable, but... What are the defaults for stdin, stdout and stderr, why are you using both &optional and &key, and shouldn't :stderr :stdout explicitly share the same file descriptor? 17:17:18 ost`` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:17:22 -!- ost`` is now known as ost` 17:17:23 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:17:24 in the meantime, I fear comprehensively 17:17:26 hello 17:18:27 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:18:44 nyef: oops, defaults are T(create pipes). and :stderr :stdout will make stderr share the same descriptor as stdout 17:20:04 nyef: as for &optional and &key, I don't like to write :args 17:20:16 :arguments, whatever 17:21:17 switching on w3m for lisppaste relieves discomfort a little 17:21:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:11 fe[nl]ix: yep. first i also had that question as nyef, but after looking at the situation a bit longer i tought that probably that's the best way 17:22:28 ...meaning &optional and &keys 17:22:55 I could make take first argument as a list designator, though 17:23:23 (create-process "ls") vs. (create-process (list* "ls" args)) 17:23:23 How about making args a required argument? 17:23:44 (create-process "ls" '()) 17:24:23 that too 17:24:59 hrm. i guess it's rare enough to spawn a process without any args to make it required 17:26:56 asarch [~asarch@187.132.136.135] has joined #lisp 17:28:08 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 17:28:24 how about argv[0]? either that needs to be a separate keyword argument, or you'll always have arguments anyway. 17:28:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-109.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:28:42 abugosh [~Adium@m385a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:03 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:08 lichtblau: that's for the future. for the moment create-process is limited to what posix_spawn can do 17:30:36 uh, OK. :-) 17:31:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:14 http://paste.lisp.org/+2DVJ/1 17:35:06 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-60-10.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:35:09 fe[nl]ix: where is wait? 17:35:21 no wait 17:35:59 There's also the allegro convention where PROGRAM argument is a vector and includes the arguments, like this: #("program" "arg1" "arg2"). But I think I like your second paste better than the vector thing. 17:36:32 yeah, I read Franz docs. that choice is a bit weird 17:36:33 :) 17:38:09 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:31 I imagine that they did it this way to include windows support, because on Windows it would usually be a string, not a vector, and on each platform, the "unusual" argument type gets simulated using the one that makes sense. 17:38:40 But IMNSHO, a possible future Windows-version of CREATE-PROCESS should be an entirely separate function with a different name. Hardly any real-world use of create-process will be portable between OSs without having an IF in user code anyway. 17:39:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:39:45 I like the way subprocess.Popen in python works; it makes sense to me. 17:40:06 Microsoft could have saved everyone so much trouble back in the 90s by just making NT a bit more UNIXy.... 17:40:47 fnordus [~dnall@S0106002129a44223.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:55 http://docs.python.org/library/subprocess.html 17:41:05 ... I have just rendered my G5 essentially unbootable. :-/ 17:42:37 foom: looks a bit allegro-ish to me as far as the arguments are concerned, except for the `executable' argument (i.e. argv[0]), which allegro lacks. But it's the same Windows/Unix type dispatch logic. 17:42:53 foom: what exactly do you like of its interface ? 17:46:03 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:46:03 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:16 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:46:30 that on unix, it doesn't use a shell by default, but takes an arg vector 17:46:36 and that on windows, that's likely to work most of the time too 17:46:53 but that if you need to do the other thing, you can do that too 17:47:15 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-52-82-65-74-223.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:25 so, often, you *can* use the same code designed for unix on windows too 17:47:43 lichtblau: there's enough functionality in common between *nix and Windows that we can have the same function 17:48:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:48:32 e.g. subprocess.Popen(['python', 'foo.py']) would work on both OSes. 17:49:34 is using an argument list not the same ? 17:49:51 you still have to copy the strings into C arrays anyway 17:50:03 I mean as opposed to a single string 17:50:06 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:38 well, it's likely to stop working once there's a space or a quote character between foo and .py 17:50:55 lichtblau: no, that's the whole point, it doesn't. 17:51:07 on unix, it of course works because it goes straight into the argv array 17:51:25 on windows, it adds quoting as appropriate so that for sane programs, they dequote it into the same array 17:51:50 "If args is a sequence, it will be converted to a string using the list2cmdline() method. Please note that not all MS Windows applications interpret the command line the same way: list2cmdline() is designed for applications using the same rules as the MS C runtime." 17:52:01 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:52:33 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:53:51 Okay, that is indeed useful to have as a built-in feature. 17:57:19 btw, another bit of portability disaster to be aware of: on unix, things usually work fine with an emtpy environment. on windows, you can't open sockets with an empty environment. 17:58:11 ah, yes, the SystemRoot variable 17:58:35 I'm sure there's probably *something* else that doesn't work right, but afaict it's mainly sockets. :P 17:59:53 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:02:57 foom: Out of curiosity do you use Python quite a bit? 18:03:06 Guthur: yes 18:03:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m385a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:03:32 Anything that I don't write in Lisp or C++ I write in python. :) 18:04:31 It is a useful tool, do use it for largish applications, or just quick, throw together tools 18:08:25 None of the large applications I'm working on right now are written in Python. A bunch of ones at my work that I'm not working on are, though, and I have in the past. 18:09:06 But the other things are small applications, not throw-together-tools. :) 18:09:20 abugosh [~Adium@m4f2436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:11:29 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m4f2436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:08 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:51 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:08 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:22:06 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.208.133] has joined #lisp 18:24:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-109.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:40 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 18:28:15 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:18 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B9A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:32 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-64-81.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 18:31:07 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082CED4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:31:21 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-186.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:43 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:35:45 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:39:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-201-170.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:54:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:28 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:55:16 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:18 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:23 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:56:48 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 18:57:14 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:54 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:27 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:28 francogrex [~user@90.246-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:01:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-118-26.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:44 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:54 Hi anyone uses plain-odbc to connect to database? 19:02:29 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:49 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:11 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:04:28 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:35 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:48 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:03 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 pnq [asdf@ACA246D0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:20 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:09:40 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:58 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:10:29 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:43 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:11:24 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:34 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:36 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:11:41 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has left #lisp 19:11:50 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 19:13:46 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@123.238.45.233] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. 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20:20:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 20:22:05 is it right: CL_LAUNCH_FLAGS += --source-registry ${HOME}/workspace//:${HOME}/workspace/global//: 20:22:42 in configure.mk... will it make the build process scan for .asd files under those two dirs? 20:23:15 attila_lendvai, I think I need to push changes upstream for that 20:23:43 it so happens that asdf's version comparison function decides that 2.000 does NOT satisfy 1.703 20:23:46 sigh. 20:24:13 make blah *SHOULD* work --- by first loading ASDF 2. 20:24:14 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:27 lemme commit and push a few things... 20:24:28 also, i don't see how it's looking for asdf... when i have it in /usr/share/common-lisp/source/asdf it tries to load it and fail. when it's in /usr/share/common-lisp/source/asdf-dev then it doesn't even load it appareantly 20:24:47 ok 20:24:55 xcvb-using-asdf relies on cl-launch, which does the trick. 20:25:03 I gotta push cl-launch 3.000 20:25:04 sigh. 20:25:13 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:25:49 no worries, you'll have one more tester... :) 20:29:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 should be all pushed now 20:31:17 you need latest asdf, asdf-dependency-grovel, poiu, cl-launch, xcvb 20:31:45 oh, let me push some iolib changes to my iolib repo, too... sigh. 20:32:04 -!- seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:31 is there so simple way to pass a series of post parameters so that they will be assembled into some sort of list/vector? something like post_param[]=blah&post_param[]=blah2 etc... Is playing with raw-post-data output the only way? 20:32:43 s/so/some/ 20:32:48 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 pushed 20:33:08 I mean in hunchentoot 20:33:29 *Xach* boggles 20:33:37 probably not too hard to do if it doesn't do it for you 20:33:43 Was there a big debate about the argument order to alexandria:clamp? 20:33:54 *Xach* would have preferred min number max 20:34:42 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:27 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:43 ok, who wants to see a big ol' tangled dependency graph? 20:36:45 http://xach.com/tmp/ql.pdf 20:37:58 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 20:38:04 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 *Xach* thinks it is kinda pretty 20:39:03 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:22 Fare: so, xcvb now depends on iolib? where is your branch, i can't seem to find it... 20:39:27 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.136.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:47 git://common-lisp.net/projects/xcvb/git/iolib.git 20:40:50 does that work? 20:41:09 Actually, I don't actually use it in any working code yet 20:41:12 ok I found post-parameters* 20:41:25 Fare, wait, it finds my obsolete directory... 20:41:57 Xach: you making that into a lisp-core-to-rule-them-all core file? 20:42:00 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:08 asarch [~asarch@187.132.136.135] has joined #lisp 20:42:27 compared to previous graphs, the node sizes are innovative 20:44:09 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:26 is there an output stream that discards whatever it has to write 20:44:32 I remember there was a special var just for that 20:44:44 (make-broadcast-stream) 20:45:44 attila_lendvai, watch you $CL_SOURCE_REGISTRY 20:46:12 I have a *big* problem with XCVB depending on iolib: 20:46:34 where iolib finds the .so it needs 20:46:36 Fare: i've configured using configure.mk but unfortunately i used a naming convention in my scanner to skip dirs starting with _ which now asdf2 doesn't 20:46:52 doing it right would require significant reengineering 20:47:00 ah, right, that's a headache not resolved yet 20:47:12 ...reengineering in sbcl, right? 20:47:19 in sbcl or anywhere 20:47:20 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:46 attila_lendvai, asdf2 can do it with :also-exclude 20:48:01 reminds me I have a patch from stelian to include as asdf 2.001. Sigh. 20:48:36 couldn't we allocate space on the heap for the grovel .so or .a files and make SBCL somehow "dlopen" those chunks of memory...? 20:48:52 then they could be part of the image 20:52:07 we could, but it might be more complex than fixing SBCL to be re-linkable. 20:54:16 Fare: does :tree follow symlinks? 20:54:17 another short-term and portable option would be to add support to cl-launch for .so in addition to .image... 20:54:28 astalla [~Alessio@93-36-225-118.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:55:11 attila: good question. I think you can't portably rely on it either way. 20:55:21 bad answer, I fear :( :( :( 20:55:38 Fare: i think you can compare the results of truename or something... no? 20:55:53 -!- brickhazel [~brickhaze@63.144.132.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:57 many things can be done. Question being do you want to do it, etc. 20:56:45 Fare: hrm, actually what i did was: call pathname-directory on the root and on the candidate and compare if it's under the root 20:57:08 in my scanner i have a (process-outside-links t) 20:57:11 keyword arg 20:57:49 *attila_lendvai* deletes his convenience symlink... :/ 20:57:51 yes, but until I recently added this dependency on iolib I couldn't do that. 20:58:17 ah, it's about the broken pathname stuff... 20:58:21 now I can, but the .so problem is REALLY painful. 20:58:27 i'm pretty much sbcl onle 20:58:52 on sbcl, asdf uses DIRECTORY, but xcvb spawns a find, because DIRECTORY is so damn slow. 20:58:59 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:15 so :tree might have different semantics b/w ASDF and XCVB... sorry. 21:04:51 Fare: i get Invalid directive (:TREE (:HOME "workspace")) what's wrong with it? 21:05:23 Fare: there's dir walking in iolib... that shouldn't be slow 21:06:16 uh, looks like a valid directive to me. 21:06:20 sigh. 21:06:44 last I looked it was broken, but I sent a report to stelian, who I think fixed it since. 21:07:02 once again, my problem with iolib is this .so madness. 21:07:48 Fare: shouldn't configure.mk completely override any external source dir config? 21:08:09 i have this in there: CL_LAUNCH_FLAGS += --source-registry ${HOME}/workspace//:${HOME}/usr/share/common-lisp/source//: 21:08:52 now it picks up the broken definitions under .config/ 21:08:54 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 21:09:57 the ending : means inherit configuration 21:10:09 if you want override, remove it 21:10:19 thanks 21:10:38 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:43 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 21:10:43 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 argh, i get a Control stack exhausted. last thing printed is this: ; registering # as ASDF 21:14:26 davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:17:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-109.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:07 fe[nl]ix: Do you think IOLib could be made to work on the latest ECL easily enough? 21:21:30 Fare: any way to keep the debugger enabled while make xcvb-using-asdf? 21:21:55 good question 21:22:19 with a properly configured source registry, you can (require :xcvb) in SLIME 21:23:06 you can also try to export CL_LAUNCH_DEBUG=t 21:23:09 except that i don't have an sbcl with asdf2... 21:23:42 might still work. Or else (require :asdf)(asdf:load-system :xcvb) 21:23:55 or (require :asdf) (require :xcvb) 21:24:19 the require xcvb *should* automatically load asdf 2. 21:24:24 that export helped, thanks 21:24:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:33 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:40 or else you may insert (asdf:load-system :asdf) between the above require and load-system 21:25:16 because of iolib, you can rm -rf your fasl cache without breaking the binary :( :( :( 21:25:49 (or object directory, if building with xcvb rather than asdf) 21:25:55 I consider this a bug. 21:26:35 tsuru: no way 21:26:35 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.208.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:34 marioxcc [~user@201.132.136.189] has joined #lisp 21:28:29 *Fare* pushes asdf 2.001 with a small patch by fe[nl]ix 21:29:26 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:23 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA246D0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:32:12 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ods82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:33:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:34:23 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:01 *attila_lendvai* pulled but nothing came from git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git 21:37:23 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@conference/railsconf/x-madzgwjsehwnnlcm] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 21:37:24 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:17 *attila_lendvai* is back to Invalid directive (:TREE (:HOME "workspace/")) 21:44:20 is that in your source-registry.conf.d ? 21:44:37 or did you erroneously put that in an output-translations.conf.d ? 21:45:01 attila_lendvai, uh? 21:45:18 source registry 21:45:25 weird. 21:45:29 backtrace? 21:45:34 (in pm) 21:45:42 it comes from validate-source-registry-directive 21:46:06 i'm playing with it in the repl 21:46:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:46:31 Fare: (asdf::validate-source-registry-directive '(:tree (:home "workspace/"))) 21:47:24 why does that function exist at all? 21:47:48 (typep (car rest) '(or pathname string null)))) 21:47:51 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:47:53 this looks wrong 21:48:00 keeping backtraces enabled and letting things fail where they fail (or not) would be much better... it's a tool for *programmers* 21:49:16 Fare: are you sure it's valid? if i disable the validation it fails in process-source-registry-directive 21:49:30 wait... 21:49:34 I'm confused 21:49:57 it might be that (:home ...) is valid for output translations but not for source registry... 21:50:09 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:34 (destructuring-bind (pathname) rest ...) suggests that 21:51:05 yup, that must be it 21:51:07 sorry. 21:52:51 Fare: simply (load-system :asdf) fails with this: EXPORT ASDF::ASDF-VERSION causes name-conflicts in # between the following symbols:... 21:53:10 i have an asdf-version in my cl-user package from somewhere, probably user code or something 21:53:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-201-170.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Zzz...] 21:53:45 although grep doesn't find anything in our code 21:54:26 in a fresh image? 21:54:31 no 21:54:36 (describe ... 21:57:21 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hir.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:57:38 Fare: ahhh, our local environment issues use-system :asdf :cl-user... and the init code at the beginning of asdf.lisp interns that symbol into cl-user 21:57:53 it does? 21:58:06 oh, as a lexical variable? 21:58:24 it interns a whole lot of symbols into cl-user... there should be a temporary defpackage instead of cl-user there 21:58:32 and you do (use-package :asdf) from cl-user? that sucks. 21:58:35 use-package is EVIL. 21:59:03 well, prefixing asdf: too many times is a burden 21:59:05 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:06 temporary defpackage? Hadn't thought of it. Sigh. 21:59:15 not for asdf 2.0, sorry. 21:59:17 too late. 21:59:28 I'm not doing this kind of surgery now. 21:59:41 you're welcome to open a bug against 2.1, though. 21:59:56 actually i'm not sure it can be temporary... but i record the bug 21:59:57 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.136.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:33 (defpackage :asdf-tmp ...) ... (delete-package :asdf-tmp) 22:01:15 any of you going to ILC 2010 ? 22:01:33 marioxcc [~user@201.132.136.189] has joined #lisp 22:01:35 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-56-138-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.201.146] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:01:45 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@89.135.203.184] has joined #lisp 22:01:47 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:02:06 peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-56-137-212.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:15 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-216.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:21 davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has joined #lisp 22:02:51 lucindo [~user@200-221-128-56.corp.uolinc.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:25 -!- lucindo [~user@200-221-128-56.corp.uolinc.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:06 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:44 -!- jikanter [~jordan@207-229-151-10.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:06:12 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:08:00 Fare: attached a patch to the bug 22:09:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:19 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:58 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 22:13:48 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9FF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:55 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-154-25.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 -!- Fare [~Fare@tui75-1-81-57-73-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:17:12 -!- dullard [~user@188-223-137-38.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:41 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[kvirc@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:26 -!- SleepingCoyote [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:13 dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:58:07 coyo|pingout [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:14 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01:43 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:09 -!- coyo [kvirc@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:03:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:19 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:09:07 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.145] has joined #lisp 23:11:09 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:10 jikanter [~jordan@207-229-151-10.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:17 FareWell: I am going to ILC 2010 23:13:42 fujihc [~fujihc@151.57.206.211] has joined #lisp 23:13:54 hi 23:14:53 -!- fujihc [~fujihc@151.57.206.211] has left #lisp 23:15:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.203.184] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:19:22 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:23:25 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442118.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 23:23:53 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442118.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:25:17 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA2A40C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:15 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:09 Hello, Can I use something similar to (stp:string-value ...) but which returns string with html tags? 23:31:10 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 23:34:46 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 23:37:06 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 Good morning! 23:37:34 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:13 OK, in 2 hours and 20 minutes I expect you to be here to greet the students attending my CL seminar (assuming there will be some). 23:40:40 Xach: Why do you need to change cmucl's current directory? Won't changing *d-p-d* do it? Barring bugs, of course. :-) 23:41:16 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 23:43:28 rtoym: i change *d-p-d* so i can write short pathnames. 23:43:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:08 Xach: But you asked about changing cmucl's current directory using chdir/default-directory. 23:44:26 rtoym: i asked because i couldn't imagine people not ever changing the current directory 23:44:34 rtoym: but i didn't know the mechanism 23:44:45 Ah, ok. 23:44:52 that is, if *d-p-d* has been broken all this time, what did people use? 23:44:55 and now i get it 23:45:04 no word back from dtc re scieneer yet, but i think he's in oz anyway 23:45:16 Yes, dtc is in oz. 23:46:18 I rarely, if ever, change *d-p-d*. I sometimes use (setf default-directory). 23:50:39 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:54 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:56 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:34 Harag [~Harag@41.56.48.225] has joined #lisp 23:58:11 rtoym: i don't think i've done it much, but i was sick of writing a bunch of relative paths. 23:58:44 something like (defun frob-indexes (index-directory) (let ((*d-p-d* index-directory)) (%frob "by-date.txt") (%frob "by-name.txt") ...) 23:58:47 ) 23:58:48 ))) 23:59:10 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0110-178-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59:58 Heh. That's much better than what I probably would have done, which is use make-pathname/merge-pathnames.