00:01:27 Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:32 Heh. Sounds familiar. 00:02:55 nyef: its for me? 00:02:57 I'm beginning to think that "I know, I'll use Perl" is an invitation to disaster. 00:03:37 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:16 nyef: :) it seems easiest way for the present. 00:05:28 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-133-1.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:32 I've forgotten so much perl that I've even forgotten where I put the manual. 00:05:57 ok quick question, let's say i have a hashtable with symbols for keys to represent slots in a class (primitive OO), and i have a lot of code of the form (classname-slot object) and (setf (classname-slot object) value) that i want to transform into (gethash slot object) and (puthash slot value object) what would be a good way to do this 00:06:28 i'm thinking having a macro to do the transformations and wrapping every defun that uses the forms with it 00:06:36 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:56 xristos: Umm... What? This looks more like a case for inline functions to me. 00:07:26 how would inline functions work? 00:07:58 Oh, sorry, misread. 00:08:00 generate a function for every slot at class definition time with a macro? 00:08:13 Basically, yeah. 00:08:26 plage: are you use plain text files for database? 00:08:27 tha would work but i need to transform (setf (classname-slot...)) into (puthash 00:10:00 Oh, lovely. No perl manpages, either. :-/ 00:12:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:36 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:45 xiackok: I just happen to think that relational databases were made at a time when Fortran was the dominating language, and so it is based on tables, and cannot be used to represent even a list. Using SQL thus forces the programmer to use twisted data structures. 00:14:29 And introducing SQL in a project breaks also its whole structure... 00:14:43 xiackok: I also think that we have known for more than 40 years how to avoid distinguishing between disk and main memory, but because of Unix, we are not using that possibility. 00:15:11 plage: what you mean twisted data? 00:15:15 Well, there's mmap... 00:15:25 But it's 'recent' and underutilised. 00:15:30 pjb``: yeah. 00:15:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:16:20 xiackok: Intead of associating a list of things with an object (where it belongs), you have to introduce a new relation. Then you have to invent the concept of a pointer as well. 00:16:35 *plage* will be back later. 00:16:38 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 00:17:14 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.131] has joined #lisp 00:18:53 pjb``: are there any articles about how can i save my data and true way for data structures?? 00:19:14 xiackok: you could use an Object DB. 00:19:45 pjb``: what is the difference relational db and object db?? 00:19:54 Try it! :-) 00:20:00 Torkn [~chatzilla@dsl-220-253-76-236.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 There's Elephant, or AllegroCache, amongst others. 00:20:30 ok thank you. i wil try :) 00:20:43 You could also use a ORM, which is an object-relationnal mapper, to store your objects into a relational (SQL) database. 00:21:05 But only if you really have to use SQL. 00:21:16 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 00:21:33 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-457e678b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:43 i think clsql provide an ORM 00:21:58 xiackok: in lisp, a Q&D way to save your data is to use only data that is printable readably and to use the lisp printer and reader to serialize and deserialize it. 00:22:50 xiackok: I'm not sure clsql qualifies as an ORM. But to use SQL tables, it's good enough. 00:24:33 -!- ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:42 ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:26:21 pjb``: now im reading Object DB. but when i use lisp printer/reader i also work on object ids and 00:26:23 relations(:S)? hmm i think with sql experience. 00:27:09 pjb``: if i understand object db is a different way to provide data. there is no ids for relations?? 00:27:34 It is managed automatically by the DB. 00:27:48 chris_osx [~chris_osx@p5492F7D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:28 pjb``: thank you for information. i need readings about this :) 00:34:19 -!- Sergio` [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:35:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:07 what form would return the output of `ls` in linux using sbcl? i'm having a bit of trouble getting run-program to print the output to stdout 00:37:01 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:37:52 uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:22 -!- blandest [~user@79.112.115.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:51 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:11 derrida: :output *standard-output* might do the trick. 00:43:33 Well, *standard-output* might not be stdout... 00:43:35 this gets me the last line 00:43:38 derrida: it did the trick for me. 00:43:39 (setf ls (sb-ext:run-program "/bin/ls" '("-l" "/etc") :input nil :output :stream :error :stream :wait nil)) 00:43:43 (read-line (process-output ls)) 00:43:43 i got everything. 00:43:46 hm 00:43:50 i'll try that 00:44:00 (sb-ext:run-program "ls" (list "/") :output *standard-output* :search t) is what i tried. 00:44:02 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:44:28 The problem is that derrida doesn't say what he means. 00:44:39 s/say/know/ 00:44:40 I say what I mean, and maybe we can meet somewhere. 00:45:00 Xach: that works perfect! :D 00:48:23 xiac - theres also rucksack btw , which drewc recommended to me the other day, and which i am currently using on my project 00:48:56 rucksack comes with a nice tutorial which should walk you through most of the concepts involved 00:51:19 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 Dawgmatix: did yo said to me?? 00:52:58 yes, i thought you were looking for an object store 00:53:23 thank you :) im looking tutorial. 00:53:28 so i was pointing rucksack out. its completely written in common lisp, so if you want to change any part / extend it 00:53:33 then you can :) 00:54:46 the tutorial is in doc/rucksack-tutorial.lisp btw 00:55:40 i have no idea about object db and transaction :) im searching information about theese subjects. 00:55:42 and if i understand persistent is main subject about object db?? 00:55:50 _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:56:43 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:14 persistent means something that isnt temporary 00:57:44 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:08 huh. its so simple :) 00:59:27 pnq [asdf@AC82CBD2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:39 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:00:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has left #lisp 01:13:41 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-26-104.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:14:34 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:27 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 01:18:24 -!- chris_osx [~chris_osx@p5492F7D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:19:40 Dawgmatix: example there is a Page object(1) and Photo object(2). and a page has few photos. an 01:19:40 -!- alexi5 [~alex@69.57.246.188] has quit [] 01:19:42 object db(now rucksack) how can save this page and photos?? 01:19:52 Dawgmatix: sorry for my bad english :( 01:20:07 Xach: this is what i came up with. is the `(,dir) good practice? http://paste.lisp.org/+2DT7 01:21:58 seems funky but my brain is feeling dead 01:22:38 xiac - save the photo and page to the hd, save paths in an object in rucksack 01:22:55 derrida: using a &rest dir might be nice 01:22:55 derrida: it's fine 01:23:08 You could list more than one dir 01:23:17 ah cool 01:24:05 Also you wont need the quoted list if you use rest 01:24:10 derrida: what are you using ls for? 01:24:14 Dawgmatix: ok thanks 01:25:31 Xach: probably just a toy shell 01:29:49 Xach: did you share your shell macrology you mentioned the other day anywhere? 01:32:48 *Xach* gets the same networking bootstrapping code working in clisp, sbcl, abcl, and 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[~ephcon@174-25-127-51.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:50 *Xach* fixes clozurecl 02:40:03 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:59 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:45:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:07 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 02:55:06 urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:31 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00:02 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has joined #lisp 03:04:53 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-156.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:21 marioxcc [~user@200.77.120.202] has joined #lisp 03:08:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night 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[~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has joined #lisp 04:32:40 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:59 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-156.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:44:01 IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has joined #lisp 04:44:07 hmm 04:44:22 just noticed that slime ignores (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) - any ideas? 04:44:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nishvbrkcijapmbv] has joined #lisp 04:47:44 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-156.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:17 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:53:03 asarch [~asarch@187.132.131.39] has joined #lisp 04:54:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:58:50 IceD^: did you load slime-fancy and other contribs? 04:59:17 p_l, M-x slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol does the job 04:59:43 so slime simply ignores the var 04:59:55 probably it expect some other option as well? 05:01:36 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 hmmm 05:03:52 and when I set it from customize - it works 05:04:10 but only for the session 05:04:23 doesn't matter - set for curr session / save 05:05:46 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:50 ahha - when I'm setting it in lisp-mode-hook - it works 05:06:44 looks like bug in slime - it doesn't preserve particulary this var when enering sime mode 05:07:03 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:14 while it works with e.g. slime-net-coding-system 05:07:22 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.131] has joined #lisp 05:07:42 -!- Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 05:13:55 -!- kpreid 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cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:29:36 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:54 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:30:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:47 plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:32:04 Good afternoon! 06:32:06 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 06:32:54 hi plage 06:37:08 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:38:55 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:04 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:41:57 good morning 06:42:59 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:43:24 hey mvilleneuve 06:43:53 aren't you impressed by all my SICL activity this past weekend? 06:45:12 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:47:38 plage: I am indeed! I haven't even had enough time to look at all your changes 06:47:57 molqr [~m@202.3.77.11] has joined #lisp 06:48:52 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:58 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:42 hello all ... a complete noob here... please advise me on setting but a lisp programming system/environment ... and yes i want to use emacs :) 06:50:32 what operating system are you using? 06:50:47 (besides emacs) 06:50:55 mvilleneuve: bottom line, there are only 13 more functions to write in the cons dictionary. 06:50:57 peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-25-114-171.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:14 molqr: Most people here would recommend SBCL and SLIME. 06:51:27 molqr, 1. get your lisp version first (I'd suggest sbcl, but you can choose other) 06:51:31 2. install slime 06:51:36 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.10.96] has joined #lisp 06:51:43 leadnose_, :P .... and i m on gnu/linux :) 06:51:51 3. watch http://www.guba.com/watch/3000054867 06:52:03 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:21 wow.. thanks plage IceD^ ... :) 06:53:26 molqr, if your package system already provides slime, install it 06:53:35 and emacs, and some lisp-implementation 06:53:48 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-38-150-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:53:56 leadnose_, i m on archlinux .. let me check and report back :) 06:55:04 molqr: check out http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ 06:55:58 yes sir arch has slime :) and emacs is already in place ... so when you say ``some lisp-implementation" that part is a bit confusing .. do u mean cl or scheme or something else type of choice here? 06:56:04 adeht, thanks for that :) 06:56:44 leadnose_, yes sir arch has slime :) and emacs is already in place ... so when you say ``some lisp-implementation" that part is a bit confusing .. do u mean cl or scheme or something else type of choice here? 06:56:58 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:57:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:57:33 molqr, let me explain it this way 06:58:46 1. there are few dozens of lisp _dialects_ but only three of them are alive ATM - CL, Scheme and ELISP (and, well, AutoLISP, but as I understand, population became even more stupid and they replaced it by visual basic) 06:59:05 :) 06:59:25 this channel is about CL (am I right?), so I assume you want to use CL 06:59:38 2. there are few dozens of CL implementations 06:59:58 like SBCL or CLISP 07:00:38 all of them have pros and cons, but from my experience SBCL is the best choice both for learning and for most kinds of real work 07:00:51 I would say that Clojure is alive, too 07:00:52 yes i want to use it.. as i got the PAIP book from univ library but he does not go into the specific lisp development environment set up .. so yes i want to learn CL 07:01:07 Krystof, ouch, it's new one, thank you for correction 07:01:38 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 IceD^, great ... its decided then ... sbcl it is :) 07:02:00 I now understand why macroexpand-all is not part of Lisp. 07:02:03 and what's your country and uni? just curious 07:02:07 Common Lisp, that is. 07:02:09 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:02:25 india, iitk 07:03:05 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 07:03:51 heh ;) 07:04:39 sb = steel bank? that was unexpected 07:04:49 why? 07:05:02 -!- plage [~user@ssh2.labri.fr] has left #lisp 07:05:22 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:29 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:43 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 07:05:58 well .... its an unexpected juxtaposition of two unrelated phrases .. is how i felt when i saw it ... 07:06:14 may be my ignorance though 07:06:46 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:07:04 SBCL is descended from CMUCL, which is itself descended from Spice Lisp, including early implementations for the Mach operating system on the IBM RT, and the Three Rivers Computing Corporation PERQ computer, in the 1980s. (c) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Bank_Common_Lisp 07:07:23 oops 07:07:34 previous phrase should be pasted 07:07:44 should go and sleep 07:08:17 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:09:21 0) sbcl-1.0.37-1 installed 1) slime installed 3)TODO: watching the guba video ... so am i good to go? 07:10:15 yeah 07:10:32 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:34 probably you want to add few lines to .emacs 07:10:41 :D many thanks IceD^ 07:10:48 showing sample to private 07:12:04 now you can start slime (M-x slime) 07:12:21 and you'll get your repl with all the neat slime features 07:12:58 IceD^, let me also confess that i m quite new to the irc phenomenon... so i hope u dont' mind asking me how u did that ``showing sample in private" thing.. is that simply a "/msg"? 07:13:24 also, I evaluated few books for our newcomer coder and found that practical common lisp by gigamonkey is the best (and it contain few pages about most useful slime features) 07:13:40 /query 07:14:28 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:15:14 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 07:15:44 and yes, practical common lisp is available online free of charge 07:16:01 :) yes that is a good thing 07:16:42 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:16:47 and author of it is usally here so you can provide your thanks/feedback 07:17:28 i dare not.. i m a complete noob but he must know that he has a million thanks to his credit... 07:17:29 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:36 Blkt [~user@93-33-134-175.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:22:20 guys i m all set here.. many many thanks for all the support and help .. i m off to learning CL now thanks to u guys. :) cheers 07:23:01 npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has joined #lisp 07:24:46 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-134-175.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:00 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:26:31 one more suggestion - install hyperspec package (or if you have good internet connection - online version will go) and learn combination C-c C-d h 07:27:05 or rebind it to a sensible key 8-D 07:27:14 why? 07:27:45 if you are using emacs, you can type all these ridiculous combinations in matter of milliseconds ;) 07:28:18 IceD^, is that suggestion for me? hypersec one? 07:28:25 yeah 07:28:33 hyperspec is spec of CL 07:28:41 reference 07:29:09 it's hard on my fingers at least and especially for commands i use often i want them on a more direct keybinding 07:29:31 and C-c C-d h will open your browser (I suggest w3m-emacs ;]) on the page with funcion, you are pointing at 07:29:32 aha ... i mean if i want to learn about it on my pc... wonderful suggestion here ... as i really miss somethign similar in c++ 07:29:33 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:58 don't use c-words ;) 07:29:58 npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has joined #lisp 07:30:09 *IceD^* hates c++ 07:30:18 :) 07:30:45 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 07:30:45 well c++, perl & python 07:30:50 hello 07:30:54 all of them? 07:30:59 yes 07:31:39 and I used all three of them in real projects (perl - 2y, python - 1y, c++ - 6y) 07:32:59 wow.... we r taught c at uni ... and i learnt c++ as i thought oop is cool ... and now my major work is computational work so i use c++ all the time... many guys in computational field use python now due to faster code development and huge number of libraries .... 07:33:15 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:34:03 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:34:23 molqr, good reading http://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/tour-de-babel 07:34:51 thanks :) 07:35:11 my opinion - you must know C, LISP and Ruby 07:35:32 ruby? 07:35:34 also, something enerprisey like java or c# 07:35:36 aren't both lisp and ruby functional languages? 07:35:42 ruby isn't 07:35:45 ruby? 07:35:47 ruby is _pure_ oop 07:36:17 i see ... all the cool guys out there.. use ruby ... 07:36:25 adeht, j4K0b: huh? :) 07:36:53 IceD^: was just baffled that someone would get the impression that Ruby is functional :p 07:37:25 j4K0b, ignore me please i m a noob :( 07:37:36 molqr, and when you'll know all 4 (c, lisp, ruby, java | c#) - you may learn smth esoterical - like haskell (which is pure learn-only-don't-use language) 07:37:49 ... 07:38:06 Blkt [~user@93-33-128-252.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:38:12 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:38:17 (all of this is IMHO, of course) 07:38:19 ave Blkt :) 07:38:34 we fe[nl]ix 07:39:01 in one life time? :P 07:40:52 if you are not planning to drop programming in nearest years - why not 07:40:53 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:09 the biggest mistake is to learn smth (like weird C++ or even nice LISP) and stick to it 07:41:13 molqr: lisp is not a functional language. 07:41:24 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:41:35 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:51 -!- eliza^ [~eliza^@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:41:58 Ralith, it is multiparadigm so he can call it functional 07:42:08 Ralith, i must be having a bad day today .. 07:42:19 IceD^: C supports assembly, so can I call it assembly? 07:42:30 Ralith, C is assembly 07:42:38 high level assembly ;) 07:42:40 Please stop babbling nonsense. 07:42:42 and portable 07:42:45 isn't everything assembly? 07:42:56 C is not assembly and does not support assembly in any meaningful fashion. 07:42:59 ultimately i mean 07:43:01 molqr: ...no. 07:43:16 Zhivago: inline ASM isn't meaningful? 07:43:22 or isn't actually ASM? 07:43:23 or what? 07:43:25 excuse me i m not from the computer sciences background .. so i ask 07:43:27 Ralith: What does the C standard say about that? :) 07:43:33 Zhivago: you tell me. 07:43:37 Nothing. 07:43:40 ...ah. 07:43:46 point taken. 07:43:55 I doubt there is anything about asm injections in C standard 07:44:01 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-oijvmpiespitrugx] has joined #lisp 07:44:03 There is an 'asm' keyword, the meaning of which is intentionally vague and undefined. 07:44:16 but (almost?) all compilers support them one way or another 07:44:25 Much like the 'fortran' keyword. 07:44:28 yeah that is whay i thought 07:44:29 anyway, you still get the point of the analogy. 07:44:38 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:44:43 I guess you'll be saying that C is fortran next. 07:44:49 actually 07:44:56 my point was more along the lines that C *isn't* fortran 07:44:57 :P 07:45:23 In any case, ground yourselves in reality and stop babbling. 07:45:29 molqr, in CL you can write (setf x 10) which is NOT functional by any means 07:45:44 and you can write all your code in non-functional style 07:45:52 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:45:59 as well as you can write in functional-only style 07:46:19 molqr: more importantly, conventional CL is simply not written functionally, although functional constructs are commonplace. 07:46:19 CL is a procedural language that supports a functional style. 07:46:31 (which isn't convinient - you should check scheme if you'd like more functional approach) 07:46:32 Just like scheme. 07:46:46 Scheme is a procedural language that supports a functional style as well. 07:46:51 yes 07:47:00 It even manages to use the word 'procedure' properly. 07:47:13 so what is a purely functional language? examples 07:47:18 Haskell. 07:47:22 molqr, well, haskell 07:47:31 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:47:31 and that's why you can't use it in real world 07:47:33 :) 07:47:40 Ice: Be less of a moron. 07:47:45 Zhivago, :) 07:47:58 I'm trying :) 07:48:08 in one video lecture on haskell ... the instructor told about how erickson is using erlang .. so is that not real world? 07:48:10 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:48:24 erlang isn't haskell 07:48:25 molqr: Erlang is really Haskell?! 07:48:28 Ice: Then don't say stupid things like that -- there are no fundamental obstacles to using functional programming in the real world. 07:48:32 molqr: that's real time, not real world :P 07:48:56 yes it is not.. they made a haskell like language(erlang) ... right? 07:49:15 IceD^: I'm sure the folks over in #haskell would be more than happy to give you some great examples of real-world use of Haskell. 07:49:26 molqr: you should really have gotten the hint by now to stop making assumptions about what languages are like. 07:49:34 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:35 molqr: Erlang is more of a Prolog descendant, afaik. 07:49:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:49:50 Ralith, u r right.. i should shut up now 07:50:03 sykopomp, thanks for the info 07:50:15 sykopomp, I have seen thouse two or three specialized apps in haskell (and I know haskell more-or-less - managed to get myself through real world haskell an year ago) 07:50:43 and I stated before that every programmer should learn it 07:50:53 it's good for your mind 07:51:31 morning 07:51:31 it's also good for eye-bleeding pain, but that's a matter of taste. 07:53:20 but when we tried to use haskell for mid-size project (database access, code generation) we got alot of problems - like lack of libs, enormous memory consumption, ... 07:54:05 molqr: Erlang is a functional (but impure, though with immutable data) language that has syntax descendant from Prolog and which is heavily oriented around its VM implmentation and multiprocessing :) 07:54:11 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:54:14 I'm sure, all these problems are solvable, but in real world you don't have money/time to do this 07:54:24 IceD^: whn it was and what implementation? 07:54:36 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:54:36 p_l, 1y ago, ghc 07:54:49 weird. 07:55:14 p_l, and that's most likely because we are not haskell gurus at all - but we tried our best 07:55:16 IceD^: you may want to think about your idea of the "real world" vs. other worlds 07:55:47 IceD^: what do y'all use now, instead of haskell? 07:56:03 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:56:04 sykopomp, well, we switched to common lisp now (and we are happy) 07:56:18 wait what 07:56:41 I find it surprising that your complaints involved lack of libs and enormous memory consumption, and you solved these issues by switching to common lisp... 07:57:09 sykopomp: haskell can be really unpredictable about memory. 07:57:11 due to laziness 07:57:14 and probably other stuff 07:57:27 Ralith: that does make sense. 07:57:36 -!- molqr [~m@202.3.77.11] has left #lisp 07:57:40 the lack of libraries part still surprises me, though. 07:57:42 sykopomp, that's it - and in our group only one dev (me) has more-less solid lisp experience 07:57:55 CL has a high initial cost but very predictable characteristics 07:58:00 well 07:58:03 relatively predictable, anyway 07:58:08 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:58:12 Maybe it's a 'grass is greener' thing, but Haskell seems healthier than lisp when it comes to libraries... 07:58:14 though yeah, still not exactly a huge wealth of libs 07:58:22 sykopomp: er yeah I dunno about that. 07:58:31 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:35 I have yet to need a lib that doesn't exist for CL. 07:58:38 sykopomp, most of cl libs works as expecte 07:58:41 it happened several times while I was using Haskell. 07:58:47 most haskell libs will not even build 07:58:55 oh, ouch. 07:59:02 I never found a good way to dynamically load plugins, for example 07:59:09 or handle HTTP 07:59:55 Ralith: It's quite odd that the latter doesn't already have decent support... 08:00:01 and again - I'm telling about my experience - we all read RWH and we all got some background in functional programming - but we didn't manage to use haskell properly 08:00:11 perhaps you were just not familiar enough with the community to find them? 08:00:24 IceD^: that's interesting. 08:00:37 well, we are familiar with google and I used #haskell intensively 08:00:57 sykopomp: I'm pretty sure it didn't exist at the time. It may now, as it is a glaring omission. 08:01:22 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:46 IceD^: I never had any problem with Cabal and the experience I hard about Haskell is wildly different... otoh, I talk daily with an experienced Haskell coder that wrote his filesystem in it... 08:01:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:51 core of the app - read metadata from db and generate java code from it 08:02:23 molqr [~m@202.3.77.11] has joined #lisp 08:02:46 and on similar data it can use 20MB of memory and finish work in 5 seconds or use all the available memory and segfaul 08:03:04 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:03:11 IceD^, that video u linked is blocked at my uni (http://www.guba.com/watch/3000054867) any solutions? 08:03:26 _inside_ the lib (what's-the-name-of-the-lib-for-db-access-in-haskell) 08:03:37 molqr, hmm 08:03:52 sorry 08:04:47 not sure 08:05:18 no problems .. if its a lecture tell me the name i will search on youtube 08:06:10 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:06:23 molqr: ssh tunneling is often pretty effective. 08:07:19 sykopomp, oh my god ... but i don't have any shell account outside the uni 08:07:30 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:07:49 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:33 fiveop [~fiveop@g229080061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:56 molqr, Marco Baringer is the name of the author 08:09:08 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-168-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:09:28 great IceD^ thanks a lot :) 08:10:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wfitrklbooagamzh] has joined #lisp 08:10:57 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3520965347123214750# - google video 08:12:38 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:12:54 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:13:15 wow that solved it for me.. thanks a lot IceD^ 08:16:16 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-192-151.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:20:23 -!- molqr [~m@202.3.77.11] has left #lisp 08:20:38 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 08:20:43 Good afternoon! 08:21:08 alama [~alama@a95-95-132-166.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 08:21:28 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:35 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 08:32:09 spearalot [~spearalot@host213-123-170-251.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:28 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111066.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:21 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.250.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:36:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-44.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:40:27 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:59 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:32 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-132-166.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 08:44:26 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:47:12 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 08:47:15 hello 08:47:18 lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.251.190] has joined #lisp 08:48:40 hello ost 08:48:59 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:50:23 -!- IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:55:07 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:56:00 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 09:02:12 billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 09:03:37 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:55 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-457e678b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 09:04:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:35 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:04:37 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:06 *p_l* pondrs takjing a leave from studies for full-time job 09:08:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:09:45 IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 09:15:02 -!- IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:16:02 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 09:16:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:17:14 morning lispers , it's monday :( 09:17:38 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 09:17:39 morning kiuma 09:18:16 p_l: if you can go on with studies, I would say go on with them. Otherwise you'll probably regret it later. That is, unless you're the next Bill Gates, of course. 09:18:21 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has left #lisp 09:18:37 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:21:06 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:22:14 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:29:24 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:45 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:49 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:30:04 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755c9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:33 well, that or continuing studies part-time/sandwich style 09:30:38 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:38:13 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:39:06 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:24 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:42:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:03 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:44:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:45:05 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:05 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:06 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:09 hm what would "cannot stack allocate value cell for VAR" mean ? 09:49:37 b 09:51:10 or rather why would sbcl let me know that ? 09:54:44 billitch: becase VAR was declared with dynamic-extent? 09:57:30 lichtblau: Does clbuild contain some magic to guard against out-of-date core files? 10:03:23 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:04:01 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:06:35 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:53 -!- shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:54 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:11:38 bob_f [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 10:11:42 -!- bob_f [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has left #lisp 10:15:21 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:16:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:18:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:19:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:22:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:11 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:41 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:12 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ozuwdmvyqrjwssrd] has joined #lisp 10:32:10 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:23 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:32 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:37:12 maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:50 aw [~aw@p5DDA93FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:09 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 10:46:11 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:00 -!- maetbag [~user@proxy.iao.ru] has quit [Quit: .] 10:47:26 IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has joined #lisp 10:47:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:53 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA93FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:56:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:13 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 10:58:58 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:59:39 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:59:44 athlon [~user@42-27-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:44 is there another way to join strings other then format? 11:00:11 kiuma: (concatenate 'string ...) 11:02:12 ost, and wiht a separator ? 11:02:15 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:02:36 *with 11:02:48 kiuma: none 11:03:06 ah, I'll have to go with format then 11:03:56 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 11:04:00 Good evening! 11:06:00 kiuma: you could do some combination of concatenate + lambda + reduce 11:09:21 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Quit: Deesl] 11:10:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:10:09 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:11:10 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 11:17:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:18:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:48 Dodek: Or, he could just use FORMAT. 11:22:09 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:10 yeah, format is just nice 11:24:55 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA93FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 11:28:28 plage: he asked about ways other than FORMAT. 11:28:41 Dodek: I know, I read the logs. 11:28:57 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:29:01 Dodek: But people have strange reasons for not wanting to use this or that part of CL. 11:29:45 plage: well, i did not think it was necessary to investigate his reasons. 11:29:51 tcr: I don't think so. There used to be code that deleted the monster.core on every "clbuild update", but I found that too annoying and removed it. 11:30:12 Or perhaps it didn't remove it, and instead complained on startup 11:30:36 I'll try to implement something smarter than this 11:30:47 Dodek: Investigating, perhaps not; convincing people that they won't die in hell for using FORMAT or LOOP or anything else that's part of the standard is a good thing though. 11:30:49 (for our own wrapper shell script) 11:31:22 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:55 The thing for me is that I update projects all the time without going through clbuild (especially during development when I'm making changes to the projects), so the check would have to look at the actual files. 11:34:05 And ASDF takes ages to walk over the systems and file-write-dates, only to ultimately find out that nothing has changed. So running ASDF on startup ruins the speed advantage of a monster.core considerably. 11:34:52 plage: sometimes they got good reasons not to use it; besides of that, i do not think that i am the one who knows what's better for them. 11:35:29 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:36:32 lichtblau: as a first (zeroth) approximation, couldn't you check whether any file under clbuild/source is newer than monster.core (using find, which should be faster than asdf) 11:36:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37:21 lichtblau: the problem may not be ASDF itselfe. we're having problems here with traversing directories on ext3 and reading small files 11:37:33 ext3 is *really* slow on that 11:38:04 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 11:38:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:38:25 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:33 I'd have started by making the update script touch the project's directory 11:38:42 and use that timestamp 11:39:32 Our case is simpler than clbuild because we rarely update third-party stuff 11:39:54 and if we update for specific reason 11:40:30 and only update a specific project 11:49:07 mvilleneuve: around? 11:49:21 plage: yes 11:50:25 mvilleneuve: How about making a separate packages.lisp file (so that people who want to integrate it into their system can do so without modifying the code itself), formating it to fit in 80 characters per line, and making a status.text file so that people know what to expect? 11:50:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:38 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:54:15 plage: I can do that 11:55:15 p0a [~user@athedsl-4373140.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:55:20 mvilleneuve: No rush, I just figure I should give you feedback and keep you busy :-) 11:56:17 heh :) 11:56:23 Hello, anyone cares to critique some 75-line code? 11:56:49 mvilleneuve: The thing with the packages.lisp file is that people who want to incorporate a module into their system will have to rewrite it to not shadow things, but just :use the COMMON-LISP package. 11:56:52 You can see it here, there's an example of it working bottom of the code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/111218 11:58:14 make an annotation on the macro for the correct version 11:58:49 p0a: Tempting, but I'll pass this time. Too late for me! 11:59:03 Aw :(. Save the code and leave me a memo? :P 12:00:05 plage: right. I just thought that code was really not in a state where people would want to incorporate it into any project, but I agree having a separate packages.lisp file might make it easier to work on it 12:00:49 p0a: The only immediate potential problem I see is that in BELONGS, you have an IF without an else branch. 12:01:06 good catch 12:01:49 mvilleneuve: I see your point, but someone is going to want to do that eventually, especially if they know from the status.text file what the state is :) 12:02:24 *p0a* changed if to when 12:02:24 plage: right 12:03:43 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111066.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:51 -!- joga [~joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 12:03:51 joga [~joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 12:04:06 alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 12:04:39 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:06:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:12:10 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:50 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-oijvmpiespitrugx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:03 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-ssylptgbotwqpdkx] has joined #lisp 12:17:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-94-203.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:20:31 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:34 -!- alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 12:25:42 rpx__ [~rpx@138-180-109-153-rev.idiap.ch] has joined #lisp 12:29:04 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-128-252.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:16 Hey, why does this work: (reduce #'min #(1 2 3)) while this does not: (reduce #'max #(1 2 3)) 12:29:59 rpx__: they both work for me. what did you mean by not work? 12:30:50 Xach, when I try the second in smile it does not work,,, maybe I have to restart 12:30:59 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:25 rpx__: What happens when you try? 12:31:27 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:31:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:32:22 Xarch: now it works after a smile-disconnect 12:32:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:00 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:33:34 Xach: strange,, but thanks,, I tried a couple of times and I got an error message about bad argument 12:34:01 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wfitrklbooagamzh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:10 Xach, have a great day :) 12:34:18 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@138-180-109-153-rev.idiap.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:20 Thanks! 12:34:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-puovoqhsleuadkam] has joined #lisp 12:35:39 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:38:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@213.221.45.105] has joined #lisp 12:43:12 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 12:43:29 Xach, would you like to take a look at my 100 line code and criticize? 12:43:37 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 (I asked the channel but nobody else seems to be willing right now) 12:45:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111218#2 12:47:41 root` [~user@lixandru-ag.mediasat.ro] has joined #lisp 12:52:48 -!- p0a [~user@athedsl-4373140.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:27 -!- urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:58:28 p0a! 12:59:57 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:00:09 eliza^ [~eliza^@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:16 I'm having trouble building sbcl 1.0.39, I get a warning sb-concurrency did not build correctly. 13:03:12 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:49 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:58 G'morning all. 13:05:08 lo 13:05:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:25 brett_h [~brett@99-12-194-0.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:35 aw [~aw@141.76.6.38] has joined #lisp 13:09:35 -!- prip [~foo@host136-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:19 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nishvbrkcijapmbv] has left #lisp 13:12:33 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a85-138-210-237.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:12:58 prip [~foo@host92-121-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:13:03 urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:07 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 13:15:35 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:17:44 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 *Xach* re-applies for approval to download the Scieneer CL trial 13:20:48 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:34 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:17 pickles [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:58 sepult [~user@78.34.99.141] has joined #lisp 13:23:42 Xach: what devious experiments are you going to commit? 13:25:27 jdz: Some cross-platform code that has turned out to be so easy to adapt to new platforms, I'm trying to cover all the active Lisps I can get. 13:25:56 *Xach* was happy everything worked unchanged on LispWorks and AllegroCL for Windows 13:26:00 ah, and not even benchmarks? 13:26:20 *Xach* has no benchmarks 13:27:40 sglinux [~sglinux@cm103.gamma92.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:30:01 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-puovoqhsleuadkam] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:13 One unexpected snag I've encountered: it's surprisingly hard to figure out how to point-and-click to do a plain "load" in the LW and AllegroCL windows IDEs. 13:35:28 in fact, i couldn't find it. i could only find compile-and-load. 13:35:28 Where do I complain about (asdf-install 'cl-ppcre) having broken dependencies somewhere? 13:35:49 mstevens: which one is broken? 13:36:28 flexi-streams wants trivial-gray-streams, which it seems to think lives at http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-plus-ssl/download/trivial-gray-streams.tar.gz only that's a 404 13:37:21 mstevens: not for me...it downloads a 3522 byte file with the project in it. 13:37:50 ... you're right, it's trying to get http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-plus-ssl/download/trivial-gray-streams.tar.gz.asc and failing 13:38:06 mstevens: i think that failure can be ignored. 13:40:29 rread_ [~rread@nat/sun/x-sbmyhhjwfdkyuohb] has joined #lisp 13:41:33 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-kdyxstoeypbhogok] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:33 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 13:41:38 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 13:44:20 I think you're probably right actually 13:44:35 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:47:55 -!- brett_h [~brett@99-12-194-0.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tbxzmzcwudupidjr] has joined #lisp 13:49:44 metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:13 *mstevens* tries to decide if asdf-install, with random pointless warnings, or CPAN, which will install half of the internet for any tiny module, are more annoying. 13:50:31 Why is this an interesting question? 13:50:56 because both have annoyed me today and I'm bored watching CPAN install something 13:51:11 mstevens: they're not quite pointless. You're about to execute a file you downloaded from an URL on a world-writable wiki. 13:51:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:52:12 pkhuong: given that, what difference does it make if I can download the .asc file or not? 13:52:28 mstevens, You could also try one of the alternatives to ASDF-install 13:53:26 rread_ [~rread@nat/sun/x-nlnwdbvwijzjhqrg] has joined #lisp 13:54:35 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-sbmyhhjwfdkyuohb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:35 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 13:54:54 mstevens: if you "know" the author, you can still check whether they signed what you just downloaded. 13:57:20 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 13:58:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:59:59 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-44.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:58 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:07:33 -!- benny 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joined #lisp 16:24:58 JuanDaugherty: That's like saying that Apache doesn't mention PHP. :) 16:26:33 rlpowell: rather the opposite? 16:27:21 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:27:21 Enh; hunchentoot is a web server, so was comparing it to Apache. Can't think of anything like weblocks taht uses Apache as a backend. :) 16:28:21 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:28:45 ... Probably because Apache is a front-end, not a back-end. 16:29:47 Fine, fine; my analogy sucked. :) Regardless, there's no particular reason that huchentoot should necessarily mention Weblocks; it certainly fails to mention many other things that use it. 16:31:18 More like libc page does not mention all apps using it. 16:31:55 but if i understand, what JuanDaugherty said was something like "apache says php is built on it but the latter doesn't mention the former" (minus the fact that php is not necessarily built on apache) 16:32:13 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:50 you would expect php to say, at the very least, that it runs on apache as a module 16:33:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:25 similarly, you'd expect weblocks to say that it is built on hunchentoot, if that's a fact 16:33:45 I think it is just trolling. 16:34:47 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:51 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:02 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 16:37:11 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:44 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:03 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 16:40:22 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:41:06 pmd: *facepalm* I misread what JuanDaugherty said *entirely*. I thought ey was saying that hunchentoot didn't mention weblocks. 16:41:13 palter [~palter@166.205.136.216] has joined #lisp 16:42:06 -!- palter [~palter@166.205.136.216] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:23 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:40 http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-weblocks/wiki/UserManual - mentions H, fwiw. But yes, most of the docs doesn't mention that; whoops. 16:52:52 HG` [~HG@xdslap090.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:02 -!- sglinux [~sglinux@cm103.gamma92.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:31 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 rlpowell: Me too. I bet he changed it after I read it. 16:58:26 rlpowell: is weblocks the equivalent of, say, struts? 16:58:45 pmd: Yeah, that's about right. 16:59:21 rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 16:59:34 What a horrible thing to say about poor weblocks :) 16:59:35 Good evening :) 16:59:46 Hello rmarynch. 16:59:49 rsynnott: Heh. I meant in terms of level of abstraction. 16:59:55 *rlpowell* likes weblocks quite a bit, so no insult was intended. 17:00:34 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:01:18 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-54-36.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 17:01:45 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:05 -!- revel0__ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:03:23 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:10 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:25 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:08:11 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:08:47 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:08 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-24-187.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:17 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-24-187.hsv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 17:10:31 -!- HDurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:12:03 abugosh [~Adium@m3e5a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:54 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:08 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:10 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:16 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:21 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:17:26 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:27 tiphareth [~m@ppp85-140-234-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 HELLO LISPERS 17:19:45 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:57 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:12 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 this is gonna be fun. 17:21:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755c9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:25:34 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.132.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:25:42 -!- tiphareth [~m@ppp85-140-234-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:26:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:00 yes that parenthetical mention resolves the apparent contradiction 17:28:28 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:45 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-190-142.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:35:26 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:38:30 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:40:57 schmrkc: YEAH, THE DEFAULT READTABLE-CASE IN MOST IMPLEMENTATIONS IS FUN, USUALLY 17:41:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:32 billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:44 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 17:45:54 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:41 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-179-51.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:54 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:47:57 -!- billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has left #lisp 17:48:10 Please learn not to shout. 17:52:22 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host213-123-170-251.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:52:49 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:53:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 18:00:10 -!- bgs100 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:52 Hrm. I don't have all of the bits required for the hack I started out on yesterday, but the bits I -do- have can be made to do the error-prone parts of my SBCL CVS commit cycle. 18:03:44 nyef: What are you hacking in SBCL these days? 18:03:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m3e5a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:10 jikanter [~jordan@207-229-151-10.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:18 join #dig 18:05:24 IR1 IR2 SSA 18:06:11 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as scsiraider 18:06:27 Recently, it's been PPC-related stuff, some general cleanups, trying to figure out how to fix some of the compiler bugs, and right now I'm trying to do something about known issues with source control. 18:07:15 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-59-23.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 nyef: clear, good luck with that... And I started to read about local calls analysis today 18:08:45 Ooh. 18:09:47 What is #dig? Is this a channel for some very specific questions? 18:10:37 -!- Horg [~YU@24.49.154.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:18 digital digger dignity channel 18:11:21 lol 18:11:23 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jqrhvgbuwixopqxk] has joined #lisp 18:11:23 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jqrhvgbuwixopqxk] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:11:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:11:59 Horg [~YU@24.49.154.87] has joined #lisp 18:12:18 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:33 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:13:58 -!- scsiraider is now known as PuffTheMagic 18:14:02 -!- rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:54 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-acxofrpdoqgqgigf] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-acxofrpdoqgqgigf] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:16:06 -!- smanek 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[57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-tmakmvrqugskblkp] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:47:44 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-156.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:39 mbishop [~martin@adsl-150-28-141.aby.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:32 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-197-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:46 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-135-143.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:28 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590592395?ie=UTF8&seller=A3QI9TE2QWUOQD&sn=Ken%20Durocher 18:51:30 *mbishop* coughs 18:51:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-95.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:23 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-klzxtmhhajheyctm] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-klzxtmhhajheyctm] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:53:26 urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:21 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:56:18 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:56:28 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:56:55 Hmm. cmucl isn't behaving like I expect with respect to merging with *default-pathname-defaults*. I'm having to provide an explicit merge-pathnames to get the right path in with-open-file. 18:57:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:19 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:38 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 18:57:39 rtoym: are my expectations wrong? 18:57:41 Xach: *default-pathname-defaults* defaults to "", the current directory. Is that the problem? 18:58:19 *rtoym* does (setf *d-p-d* (ext:default-directory)) in his init file. 18:58:28 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755c9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:00:26 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jkhhsgqhbsruyyrp] has joined #lisp 19:00:27 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jkhhsgqhbsruyyrp] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:00:31 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:40 -!- mbishop [~martin@adsl-150-28-141.aby.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 19:03:53 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-eiqhtoqoxtuthvac] has joined #lisp 19:03:53 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-eiqhtoqoxtuthvac] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:05:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-94-203.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:24 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-plojozygtuahsrgp] has joined #lisp 19:07:27 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-plojozygtuahsrgp] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:10:53 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-rvonmisuujdfarln] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-rvonmisuujdfarln] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:12:43 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-26-104.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:15:15 rtoym: i'm doing (let ((*d-p-d* )) (frob-file "index.txt")) 19:15:29 rtoym: it's complaining that index.txt doesn't exist, but /index.txt certainly does 19:15:33 uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:55 (frob-file (arg) ...) is doing (with-open-file (... arg) ...) 19:16:10 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:56 Let me check to see if with-open-file is doing the merging. Might have been overlooked. 19:17:40 this is on 20a 19:17:51 pnq [asdf@ACA397B4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:42 -!- urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:19:13 alama [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 It seems that OPEN doesn't merge the filename with *d-p-d*. 19:21:14 rtoym: that seems contrary to 19.2.3 19:21:31 I agree. 19:21:55 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-nuwhiwkentuuylom] has joined #lisp 19:21:59 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-nuwhiwkentuuylom] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:22:31 rtoym: I'm a little shocked it took this long for anyone to bring it up :) 19:23:24 It is a bit surprising. Especially after a lot of the cases were fixed a long time ago. 19:24:24 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 19:25:22 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jhnotebsuhmxhjmb] has joined #lisp 19:25:23 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-jhnotebsuhmxhjmb] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:26:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:27:26 Xach: Ok. Definitely doesn't merge. Now what? Should there be a 20a patch? Just ignore it and fix it only in the snapshot? 19:27:40 rtoym: well, i'm going to stop trying to make my program work on cmucl. 19:27:48 but ensure-directories-exist also seems to have the problem 19:28:16 rtoym: if it were me, i think i'd fix it in the snapshot. people haven't noticed yet, maybe they aren't in a rush. 19:28:55 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ylmervggpbjjtpxg] has joined #lisp 19:29:00 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ylmervggpbjjtpxg] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:29:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:29:23 -!- IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:01 mfk [~salagav@kpbisb.static.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:09 Xach: I'll fix ensure-directories-exist too. If it's simple, like maybe writing an fwrapper or something, I might just send a note to the mailing list. 19:30:46 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:39 rtoym: what's the agenda for a new release? 19:31:53 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:32:06 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:32:07 big splash at ILC2010? pyrotechnics, dancers? 19:32:23 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-haxraykiuyabtpqb] has joined #lisp 19:32:26 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-haxraykiuyabtpqb] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:32:36 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 19:32:40 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:47 Xach: Heh. I've been thinking for a few months now that it's time for a new release. Localization appears to be working, even if there's only a piglatin version. :-) 19:32:58 hello 19:33:03 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:26 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:34:53 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:53 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-zomukqivuptvvalp] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-zomukqivuptvvalp] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:38:19 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:39:23 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-behoevsjydvsgmdd] has joined #lisp 19:39:23 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-behoevsjydvsgmdd] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:40:15 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:35 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:42:52 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-twydefaskilbbilf] has joined #lisp 19:42:53 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-twydefaskilbbilf] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:43:12 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 Xach: Would you like to test something out for me? 19:43:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:21 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229080061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:46:22 rtoym: would i! 19:46:56 It's a very simple wrapper that should make open and ensure-directories-exist work. (I hope!) 19:47:06 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:33 sounds good 19:47:44 Let me lisppaste it.... 19:48:41 marioxcc [~user@200.77.120.14] has joined #lisp 19:49:42 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:57 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-bizeopqltpbqoeyq] has joined #lisp 19:49:57 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-bizeopqltpbqoeyq] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:50:04 marioxcc` [~user@200.77.120.14] has joined #lisp 19:50:10 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.77.120.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:14 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.120.14] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:30 marioxcc [~user@200.77.120.14] has joined #lisp 19:51:02 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:07 Xach: look at http://paste.lisp.org/+2DTS. 19:51:18 Doesn't lisppaste announce pastes here anymore? 19:52:10 It varies. Might be devoiced. 19:52:18 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:52:43 And the reason is the persistent abuse, to the point where the bot might just be turned -off-. 19:53:09 rtoym: thanks 19:53:22 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ggksyijgtyejpzta] has joined #lisp 19:53:23 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ggksyijgtyejpzta] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:53:34 nyef: lisppaste gets a lot of abuse nowadays? 19:54:07 Some bunch of script kiddies that keep attacking freenode found lisppaste. 19:54:14 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-34-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:46 A quick "new paste" script, and they're off using the bot to spam channels. 19:55:22 -!- mfk [~salagav@kpbisb.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: sleep] 19:55:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:58 jajcloz [~jaj@host146.216.41.64.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:23 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:29 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-biserengsvanaknn] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 I guess they're not called script kiddies for nothing. That's so stupid. 19:57:00 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-biserengsvanaknn] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:57:44 -!- ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:51 ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 19:58:07 *Xach* shakes fist at cxml's asdf trickery 19:58:46 Hmm. directory should merge its argument against *d-p-d* too? 19:59:14 I hesitate to say that I'm taking patches, because just recently there has been a patch to cxml.asd that I didn't apply yet, because it didn't come with an explanation. 19:59:14 rtoym: pretty much everything should. i'm not sure how anything could work if it isn't done pervasively... 19:59:45 lichtblau: it's not really cxml's fault, i guess. i'm trying to gather info in a particular way, and it works for everything vanilla, and cxml is not vanilla. 20:00:09 Xach: Yeah, the spec is pretty clear, once you find that magic section about it. 20:00:14 i'm sure piling hack upon hack should do the trick 20:00:23 I see what you mean. My currently envisaged new clbuild dependency guesser wouldn't work with cxml either. 20:00:53 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-qzxujkwbsiujuimx] has joined #lisp 20:00:53 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-qzxujkwbsiujuimx] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:01:52 inklesspen|work [~jon@inklesspen.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:16 What does GNU Common Lisp lack, compared to other common lisps? 20:03:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.6] 20:03:46 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2004FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 inklesspen|work: Lots of stuff, like decent ansi standard features. 20:04:18 a sane license. ;) 20:04:23 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:04:28 schmrkc: I'm a GPL fan, so. :P 20:04:41 inklesspen|work: active development 20:04:50 inklesspen|work: users 20:04:51 rtoym: I see. Is it largely abandoned, or are people still trying to bring it up to scratch? 20:04:58 ah, well, that answers that 20:05:08 arrgh! 20:05:12 inklesspen|work: judging from the wikipedia the last release was 4 years ago :S 20:05:13 No, gcl is not comletely dead. 20:05:21 *Xach* is brought low by usocket/clisp incompatibility 20:05:23 bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-yxforjvctaxdgwcs] has joined #lisp 20:05:24 -!- bgs100 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-yxforjvctaxdgwcs] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:05:31 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:34 oh 5 years according to the site (: 20:05:35 schmrkc: wikipedia also says the cvs repo is being developed still 20:05:49 inklesspen|work: There has been some work on it recently, bringing a fair amount of ansi fixes and other features. 20:05:54 -!- ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:07 ans [~user@user123.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:42 okay 20:06:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:07:19 I'm coming from the Python world, where you hack on a project for a while, check it into version control, then check it out on your server and deploy it there. 20:07:32 (for web development, that is) 20:07:42 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:07:43 Does the same pattern tend to hold in the CL webdev world? 20:07:58 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:20 i know the Lisp REPL and SLIME permit a lot more in the way of incrementally building up functions and such 20:08:24 *rtoym* doesn't see why it would be different. 20:08:30 inklesspen|work: I'd do it that way. 20:08:30 *rtoym* isn't a web dev. 20:08:40 *schmrkc* is also not a web dev. 20:09:00 bgs000 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ucxjxlghzxtsjjco] has joined #lisp 20:09:15 inklesspen|work: I usually do it incrementally, but then again, my website doesn't critically matter to people much. 20:09:16 I certainly don't do it that way, because I'm compiling all code on a development system, and then I install the binary on the web server. 20:09:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has joined #lisp 20:10:12 okay. that was mostly a preliminary question to my next one; I have sbcl 1.0.39 on my dev machine, and my server is running debian testing, which only has 1.0.25 available at this point in time. Is that going to be a concern, or can I ignore that until later? 20:10:24 ignore it until you can't. 20:10:26 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:10:42 inklesspen|work: Or maybe don't use the debian lisp packages. (: 20:10:44 inklesspen|work: I don't recommend going with debian packages. 20:10:48 that, too. 20:10:49 Not for sbcl, anyway. 20:11:12 I see. 20:11:21 compile from scratch, then? 20:11:40 (I used macports on my dev box; is that okay, at least?) 20:11:44 From a previous version, anyway. 20:12:04 inklesspen|work: There are precompiled binaries at sbcl.org me thinks. 20:12:19 gotcha, thanks 20:13:51 billitch [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has joined #lisp 20:14:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:14:05 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:15:56 -!- bgs000 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-ucxjxlghzxtsjjco] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:16:12 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-81-185.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:03 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:23 bgs000 [57o9@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-bbknoybfjpcjskwg] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@188.106.99.2] has left #lisp 20:20:09 Xach: If that paste doesn't work, let me know. I know that delete-file, file-author, and directory don't merge with *d-p-d*. These and others will be fixed in the next snapshot. 20:23:08 rtoym: Speaking of CMUCL, I finally went and had a look at the PPC breakpoint stuff. It seemed a bit underexplained to me. 20:23:55 (Though I will admit that I may have overexplained my version.) 20:24:05 schmrkc: it was with you that I talked yesterday about terrain generation wasn't it? 20:24:42 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:25:54 nyef: I cargo-culted it from sparc. Which didn't have any explanation either. I probably should have added some comments. 20:26:18 fsmunoz: yes. 20:26:43 nyef: FP traps were also broken on ppc. Don't know if sbcl fixed that or not. 20:28:07 schmrkc: well, I've started it and have something that creates land/sea/mountains. However I'm now exploring using a fractal/perlin noise approach, which I tried to avoid since it sounded dreadfully complex to me but after fiddling with the procedural approach I'm not sure it in the long run it wont be better 20:28:11 Yeah, that was last month. 20:28:25 Or maybe earlier this month. 20:28:37 (just sharing with you because I don't hav anyone else to talk about it, eheh) 20:29:17 fsmunoz: It does sound interesting. In 3 weeks time I will have some time off my hand and actually start looking deeper into this :) 20:29:26 Currently our test suite only fails the two package tests, two undefined-function backtrace tests, some dynamic-extent tests, and ROOM. 20:30:47 Yeah, FP traps was 1.0.38.12. 20:31:08 Sounds good. 20:31:22 fsmunoz: I wish you happy terrain, I'm going to sleepyland here and have my brain generate some nice dreamy terrain (: 20:31:27 Too bad I don't have a ppc machine anymore. 20:31:30 I shudder to think about the OpenBSD/PPC support for FP traps. 20:31:37 schmrkc: I hope by then to have something that produces decent maps. The ones I get now aren't bad, but there are some areas which are harder to tackle than I antecipated in order to make it more realistic. 20:31:44 Hence, the perlin noise 20:31:49 Whatever that means 20:32:14 fsmunoz: Sounds totally juicy! (: (: 20:32:33 (Mainly because the kernel apparently doesn't even have the mechanisms in place to deliver SIGFPE properly.) 20:33:09 schmrkc: it doesn't doesn't it? I think I'm going to do it just to say that I used it, instant creds. 20:33:15 s/doesn't/does 20:34:03 fsmunoz: -Which- doesn't are you inverting? 20:34:21 -!- ineiros_ [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:46 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 20:35:28 nyef: I didn't use /g ;) 20:36:07 you also didn't use / at the end which makes it non-compliant, but that's just nitpicky ;-) 20:37:10 hehe 20:38:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has joined #lisp 20:39:52 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA397B4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42:48 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 20:43:01 ska` [~user@124.157.132.183] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 -!- varjag [~eugene@219.61.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:53:08 any one using rucksack?? 20:59:03 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@host146.216.41.64.conversent.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:59:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:59:58 -!- eliza^ [~eliza^@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has left #lisp 21:03:15 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:50 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:11:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:12:56 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-197-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:16:39 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:54 alama [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:18:10 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:29 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:59 alama_ [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:19:27 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:21:05 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:32 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:37 Aszarsha_ [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:05 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:05 -!- alama_ is now known as alama 21:23:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:23:23 rucksack is sticking account objects in my result when I map the 'sector' class :( 21:23:27 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:02 Aszarsha [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:14 dlowe: im wonder abour :allocation :class in rucksack for unique ids 21:25:52 -!- Aszarsha_ [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:28 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:51 dlowe: in the tutorial they use external variable for unique ids. 21:27:12 xiackok: I don't have any unique ids. I didn't think they were necessary 21:27:47 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has joined #lisp 21:28:08 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:28:32 dlowe: what you use for unique slot? 21:29:10 xiackok: No unique slot. 21:30:02 dlowe: but rucksack how it know same objects? 21:30:38 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:31:13 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:13 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:31:22 xiackok: it uses object identity 21:31:25 http://weitz.de/eclm2006/rucksack-eclm2006.txt 21:31:52 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-26-104.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:31 dlowe: thanks 21:33:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:34:52 Aszarsha [~foo@88-121-118-251.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:22 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:42 ok, I think I figured it out 21:41:16 *Xach* is super-hyped 21:42:51 Xach: hyped over what? 21:44:11 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:26 rucksack's transaction model is making me grumpy 21:46:00 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:25 dlowe: i have a one-file bootstrap thing that can fetch everything you need to run dozens and dozens of useful libraries on e.g. lispworks for windows 21:47:42 pulls in asdf, gunzipper, and tar-unpacker as needed, sets up everything and loads it 21:48:22 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2004FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:48 athlon` [~user@23-102-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:57 -!- athlon [~user@42-27-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:33 and it's a 32KB bootstrap file, not too bad. didn't try hard to make it tiny. 21:51:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:51:42 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has joined #lisp 21:52:53 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:19 Xach: grats 21:56:20 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:57:37 quick, think of your favorite library! i'll tell you if it works. 21:59:06 elephant 21:59:09 I tried to include hu.dwim.* but found the forking too hard to handle initially. maybe later. 21:59:21 benny: no luck, sorry. 21:59:38 well, I won't be buying it then! 21:59:39 *Xach* did his initial cut on sbcl darwin, next cut on linux might pull in more. 21:59:43 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-172-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:53 *Xach* apologizes, offers refunds 22:02:23 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:03:05 freddie111 [~user@150.140.225.113] has joined #lisp 22:04:59 i also had problems with iolib 22:05:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:07:22 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:03 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:09:41 pnq [asdf@172.130.100.41] has joined #lisp 22:12:06 dysinger [~dysinger@conference/railsconf/x-jwjgckyvcxkktbyy] has joined #lisp 22:13:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.206.212] has joined #lisp 22:13:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755c9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:13 nuba [~nuba@64.150.190.84] has joined #lisp 22:15:43 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.139.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:09 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.225.113] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:50 -!- athlon` [~user@23-102-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:56 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:20:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.206.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:33 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178.223.149.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:18 Hmm. I guess namestring and friends should also merge with *d-p-d*. 22:24:30 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:13 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:30 Or maybe not. I'm thoroughly confused now. 22:30:59 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:28 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:35:39 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has left #lisp 22:37:23 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:24 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:30 rtoym: i don't think so on namestring. 22:37:49 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:38:00 probe-file, truename, open, ensure-directories-exist, file-write-date, hmm... 22:38:11 the dictionary probably has many things i forgot 22:39:43 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:27 delete-file, rename-file 22:43:21 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 22:44:17 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:10 Xach: Oh, 19.2.3 says "manipulate or inquire about files". So namestring is off the hook. But I did miss file-write-date. Got the others that you mentioned. 22:49:30 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 22:52:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:08 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has joined #lisp 23:01:28 rtoym: i'm still befuddled about how people could not notice. do people always use absolute pathnames for everything in cmucl? 23:01:58 -!- aw is now known as aw|rerun 23:02:17 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:02:22 I have no idea. I've never run into it, but I seldom do that kind of stuff. Or maybe I did, but was too lazy to look up the answer, and just did a merge-pathnames anyway. 23:04:34 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:23 urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:17 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:08:46 ugh. with-mutex is really expensive in sbcl. :( 23:09:11 but to fix it, i'd need to fix unwind-protect first. 23:10:08 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:12 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:31 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:16 making grab-mutex/get-mutex just a few instructions when uncontended would be pretty easy (just inline that bit of the function), but that's not much good when with-mutex has so much overhead for the interrupt handling and especially unwind-protect. 23:13:50 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@conference/railsconf/x-jwjgckyvcxkktbyy] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 23:16:05 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:10 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:58 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:09 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:30:51 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:30:54 Good morning! 23:31:54 hi plage 23:34:45 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:14 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:38:57 acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:43 plage: Don't you find it disturbing for your work to be travelling so much? I find that travel doesn't let me concentrate as well as staying at home... 23:41:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.203.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:17 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:23 pjb``: Er, my work for the past year has consisted of things that don't require any concentration (meetings, administration, an occasional lecture, reading student reports, interviewing candidates, listening to complaints, etc). Traveling actually makes concentration possible for a change. Now, my situation will change mid-july and I might have a different opinion then. 23:44:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:28 pjb``: My main problem is that it is virtually impossible to develop code on this dinky little laptop. 23:49:53 plage: Why? 23:50:08 I see. 23:51:17 The new MacBook Pro i7 15" (fully loaded it would be a tad less than 4000 ) would be as powerful than my new desktop development workstation... 23:51:39 Zhivago: too few pixels for comfort. 23:52:13 Zhivago: At home, I have 6 times as many pixels. 23:52:35 What resolution does it have? 23:52:48 It's the pixels, not the density! 23:53:04 1024x600 23:53:13 Ow! 23:53:18 Resolution isn't a matter of density. 23:53:29 It's a matter of differentiability. 23:53:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:37 Zhivago: Resolution is dot per inch, or pixel per cm. 23:53:45 Technically, resolution is about pixels per length unit. 23:54:11 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-142-3.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:54:12 Which can mostly be compensated for by adjusting the viewing distance. 23:54:20 But too few pixels can't be fixed. 23:54:22 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: "relocating"] 23:54:27 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:28 And unfortunately, micro projectors don't have much more pixels... 23:55:23 Those are both confusing resolution with pixel dentity which becomes obvious since if you change the size of the pixels in your model the resolution changes. 23:55:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:34 Whereas the amount you can resolve doesn't change. 23:56:11 Zhivago: as I said, you can always look closer. You'd need very high resolutions to begin to not being able to resolve it... 23:56:14 Hey, wikipedia even manages to get it right. 23:56:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution 23:56:36 Resolution is about the amount of differentiability you have in the display -- not size. 23:57:16 but they mention that resolution in this case is a misnomer, since resolution _should_ be pixel density, in the normal defination of the word 23:57:45 Well, they started out well. 23:57:58 No. Resolution should have nothing to do with pixel density. 23:58:08 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:13 Pixel density doesn't affect what degree of resolution you can have in the image. 23:58:34 Think about the kinds of images that 1 pixel can resolve as opposed to 4 pixels. 23:58:53 it's sad that nobody makes 300dpi computer monitors 23:59:18 Hurrah for e-ink. 23:59:23 foom: there are high resolution monitors, but in black and white (grey actually), for radiology application. 23:59:28 again, display resolution generally refers to the pixel dimensions of the screen 23:59:31 foom: IIRC IBM had one at 2000 dpi. 23:59:44 vonli: yes, but it's a misnomer. 23:59:49 Since resolution really is density. 23:59:55 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:59:56 Apparently the new iPhone has a 326 ppi display (940x640 pixels)