00:00:21 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:01:12 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:01:13 Torkn [~chatzilla@dsl-220-253-76-236.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:01:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:18 h_z12x1 [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-42-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:20 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:43 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:56 uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:13 Hello! Can I use case with string? I'd like to do something like: (case "1" ("1" "foo") ("2" "bar")) but it returns NIL :S 00:06:14 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 00:06:23 -!- h_z12x [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-42-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:45 mrSpec: no. 00:06:51 <_3b`> not reliably 00:06:57 Xach: so I have to use cond? 00:07:00 mrSpec: COND is the simplest thign to use instead. 00:07:05 ok, thanks 00:07:09 mrSpec: there are more exotic options available. 00:07:34 in cond? 00:09:41 than cond. 00:12:04 O, Xach could you give me an example? 00:12:42 I always use cond... 00:14:54 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:45 mrSpec: i mean things like pkhuong's string-case 00:16:58 ah, ok ;) 00:17:24 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:13 -!- pnq [asdf@AC876781.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:36 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 00:24:00 *arbscht* is partial to alexandria:switch for that 00:24:53 arbscht! 00:25:48 hello 00:26:04 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:26:27 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 00:26:30 Good morning 00:26:34 what is your favorite CL library other than alexandria? 00:27:45 cffi, probably. I think ECL's libraries are handy too, but obviously not portable 00:27:59 Hello arbscht; hello Xach. 00:27:59 morning plage! 00:28:03 hello plage 00:28:06 hey mrSpec 00:28:16 arbscht: What's up with you these days? 00:28:25 Xach: I posted some others in response to that thread on reddit 00:28:42 Xach: Was that question directed specifically to arbscht? 00:29:16 plage: not completely. 00:29:59 plage: oh, plenty of stuff. been quite busy for months... 00:30:57 pablo__ [~pablo@201.250.19.58] has joined #lisp 00:31:02 blist 00:31:03 Xach: Depending on what you mean by "favorite", mine is probably McCLIM. It is nowhere near perfect, but the part that I use is very stable, and it saves me a lot of work when I write end-user applications. 00:31:06 -!- pablo__ [~pablo@201.250.19.58] has left #lisp 00:34:51 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:05 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:22 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:04 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 00:41:04 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:45:31 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:46:20 Good night! ;) 00:46:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-65.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:47:39 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:53:06 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:34 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 00:57:32 hello, is there an iolib example that uses the multiplexer? 00:57:40 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:59 <_3b`> ignotus: did you check the examples dir? 00:58:28 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:58:31 _3b`: oh! 00:59:15 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:10 _3b`: thanks, somehow I missed that:) 01:02:09 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:20 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-169-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:04:16 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:35 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-59-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:06:37 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0043-78-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:06:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AE6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:07:21 asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.70] has joined #lisp 01:08:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:20 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:50 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:07 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 01:15:57 -!- Kibane [Kibane@83.231.63.80] has quit [] 01:16:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:16:38 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 01:17:41 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 01:18:02 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:57 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:33 Xach: So what is the purpose of your recent questions on people's favorite libraries? 01:22:39 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 01:23:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:23:46 kpreid [~kpreid@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:36 plage: I'm making a new system, similar to clbuild, asdf-install, etc. I'd like to include a large percentage of peoples' favorite things in its initial version. 01:24:47 people's? 01:25:12 Oh, interesting! How is it going to work? 01:25:43 plage: a little like clbuild, but with everything available via http instead of a grab-bag of version-control systems. 01:26:01 plage: lots and lots of automation (the job seems way too big otherwise) 01:26:39 Xach: So, your system does what clbuild does, but only once to move things to a site available by http? 01:27:13 plage: Partly. 01:27:57 plage: Once an archive of a file is made available, it is available permanently, so it is possible to go back to a previous set of interworking dependencies, should that be useful. 01:28:06 archive of a project, that is. 01:28:45 it doesn't do any of the application building parts, or lisp environment setup parts, of clbuild. 01:29:02 OK. 01:29:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:48 When do you plan to make it available? 01:30:10 Xach: have you looked at Lispy? 01:30:29 No plans. I have been working on it a lot lately. 01:30:37 p_l: A little. 01:31:14 Oh, I'd like for this to work on more than just Unix CL implementations. 01:31:19 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:31:22 with a very easy bootstrap process. 01:31:45 Xach: well, that's kinda my plan - make a istribution system that can be easily mae into executable that will work on ifferent platforms... 01:31:48 ideally, load a single file, from a well-known place, and you're off. 01:32:02 p_l: have fun with it! 01:32:51 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 01:34:29 there is more to that - that was a client portion 01:38:38 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 01:39:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:41:15 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0043-78-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 01:41:39 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:28 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:49:02 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-237-251.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 01:51:04 pnq [asdf@AC8298F1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:42 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:21 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:16 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:57:33 p_l: when do you plan to make it available? 01:59:00 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:01:08 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDAA1B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:41 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAB267.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:51 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 02:07:49 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 02:08:12 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:10:58 good morning 02:12:27 Xach: I'm planning to start some serious hacking as soon as my current problems get ridden off, which would be no later than few weeks from now, and big parts of work would be rather simple (I'm starting with Lispy's codebase) 02:12:50 ... we could make a contest between different options :D 02:12:58 hello xiackok 02:13:20 hello plage. how are you 02:13:35 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 02:15:52 xiackok: Fine. What about yourself? 02:16:23 me too fine. same working with lisp :) 02:16:45 seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-40-254-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:55 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:06 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:29 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 02:19:33 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:20:19 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-91-193-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:20:34 plage: today im working on file i/o. i want change file position. i looked up file-position. but i need change file position by 02:20:36 line number. there is a way to implement?? 02:21:45 Remember the file positions of newlines, and use those positions. 02:23:07 but i dont know newline positions in file 02:23:46 there is no way to "skip 10 lines and begin reading"??? 02:26:44 xiackok: read until you find 10 newlines. 02:27:14 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:29:28 xiackok: You can do that by using read-line or by reading characters and counting newlines. 02:30:06 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:31:47 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:16 plage: ok i understand. i wonder one more thing. i have an instance of class. how can i write that object with fixed size to a file?? 02:32:28 gnus 02:32:35 whooops, forget the M-x 02:33:17 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:33:28 xiackok: I don't understand what you mean. 02:34:27 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-229.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:28 plage: im sorry :) how can i tell you i dont know (i dont know english very well) but i will try. 02:36:16 plage: now we have an instance of object 02:37:39 plage: i want do like this "(write myobject stream)" . 02:37:54 you want to memmap it's content as stream into a file ? 02:38:22 plage: but every entry have fixed size (bayt) on file. 02:38:23 so to capture it's state or what ? 02:38:53 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@12-235-236-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:14 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:39:17 sepult`: in the c programming like that write(object, sizeof(data_type), file) 02:39:34 xiackok: But that's not possible in general, because the slots of an object don't have a fixed size. They can contain lists, bignums, other objects, etc. 02:40:13 xiackok: You can do that in C but it would be useless if the object contains (say) a linked list, or a string. 02:40:34 plage: hmm i think difference static typing and dynamic typing?? 02:41:31 xiackok: That has nothing to do with it. The question is how you expect an object that can have any size to fit in a fixed number of bytes in a file. 02:43:20 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 02:43:22 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:37 I think he means the predictable size you would get from the C struct 02:43:44 plage: yes that's not possible :) thank you very much. 02:44:04 Guthur: yes i mean that 02:45:26 But that's a totally useless measure in general. 02:45:58 Yep certainly, especially if pointers are part of the makeup 02:46:30 Memory layout may change as well, which would make them all useless. 02:46:44 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-29.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:13 that is habit from c language. i will try different ways 02:51:13 Use a proper serialization format, it would probably be easier 02:51:29 Or maybe one of those persistent object databases 02:52:56 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 02:53:49 Guthur: uhh. proper serialization?? im a newbie :) 02:53:51 i dont want use a database (you mean sqlite etc.??). i want learn file operations 02:55:07 Well sometimes people use XML to serialise, not great in my opinion, or JSON is another possibility. 02:56:29 http://www.cliki.net/serialization 02:56:40 There is a few CL ones 02:57:34 thanks im looking 02:57:42 JSON, http://www.cliki.net/cl-json & http://www.cliki.net/YASON 02:58:09 xiackok: I often use a simple external syntax where an object is represented as [name-of-class :initarg1 value1 :initarg2 value2 ...] 02:58:49 plage: i dont understand 03:00:03 Or make-load-form 03:01:20 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:23 xiackok: For instance, if I have a class PERSON containing :name and :year-of-birth initargs, I write it as [PACKAGE:PERSON :name "Bill" :year-of-birth 2000]. Then I can read it back by making `[' call the function (apply #'make-instance (read-delimited-list)). 03:06:26 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-73-16.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:54 plage: hmmm you write as like lisp code 03:10:03 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:11:25 plage: I was wondering if that made you think of some reference: there's a good number of tasks for which we often use hash table that could be executed more simply if each object has additional (bounded) slots dedicated to some algorithm. 03:11:26 I've been messing with the bknt datastore, and made some changes that fixed the XML import/export. Works rather well - although for imports a simple DTD is needed. 03:12:02 s/bknt/bknr 03:12:05 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:23 e.g., grouping a vector of (key, value) pairs by key is trivial if we have access to 1 pointer in the keys. 03:12:45 xiackok: Yes, why would I do it differently? 03:13:13 pkhuong: yeah, that's what I use stealth mixins for in Gsharp, but they probably aren't general enough. 03:13:38 It's hard to tell ahead of time how many such auxiliary slots one will need, so, instead, it would make sense to have some sort of mini associative table, and to treat entries in those tables as a global resource. 03:13:39 pkhuong: Neither is context-oriented programming, because those additional slots often need to be per-view. 03:14:29 In the general case, the idea is that there tends to be a small number of large hash tables, so it makes sense to transpose that into a large number of small dictionaries. 03:14:52 plage: so sorry but again i dont understand you. 03:15:18 and if we restrict ourselves to temporary hash tables, then it might make sense to only allow a small bounded number of such (implicit) dictionaries and recycle/GC them. 03:15:29 xiackok: You seem surprised that I use the Lisp read and write functions to read and write Lisp data. You probably shouldn't be surprised about that. 03:16:40 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 03:17:02 pkhuong: I am not sure what use case you are thinking of, but the one I am thinking of is that each view of an MVC application needs to associate data with model objects, usually in different ways. Then you need a dictionary per view, but ideally, it should look like the view is just using accessors on model objects. 03:17:36 plage: yes you are right. i need to become familiar i think :) 03:17:45 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:46 pkhuong: Though I guess you could have a single hash table, and use both teh view and the model object as key. 03:17:59 plage: that's typically what one would use hash tables for, though (one per view). 03:18:24 (since algorithmic performance probably doesn't matter too much in that context) 03:18:31 right. 03:18:54 But I would like access to be uniform so that it looks like the view is just using another model accessor. 03:19:18 which is simple to achieve if you use accessors and/or the MOP. 03:19:47 I was more thinking of algorithmic simplicity, and avoiding randomisation. 03:19:54 I see. 03:20:27 Hense, using a few auxiliary slots to allow simpler implementations of set operations. 03:20:58 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:05 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:23:50 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:07 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-73-16.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:15 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:35 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30:29 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-166.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:08 i found nice tutorial for begginers on reading and writing objects and serializing 03:31:12 http://www.pentaside.org/paper/persistence-lemmens.txt 03:31:16 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:31:45 ooo 03:31:49 cool, thx for linkage 03:32:20 youre welcome 03:32:27 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:33:54 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:16 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-46-166.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:39:09 Jasko [~tjasko@12-235-236-2.att-inc.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:06 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.39.81] has joined #lisp 03:44:36 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.134.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:46:17 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:51:13 im going to sleep. have a nice day 03:51:38 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has left #lisp 03:54:27 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.6] 03:59:52 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:01 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66661d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 04:01:30 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:39 -!- h_z12x1 [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-42-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:33 -!- pnq [asdf@AC8298F1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:09 h_z12x [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-42-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:24 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.133.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:44 -!- seg_ is now known as segmond 04:15:48 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:45 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:42 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has joined #lisp 04:18:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:19:53 Does anyone know h4ns's skype name? 04:27:48 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.164.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:21 kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 04:47:30 Hmm, it's pretty hard to do black-box testing of a function such as UNION, because the standard allows implementations to behave in many different ways. 04:51:03 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:41 give me lisp or give me death 04:51:48 god i hate tcl syntax, as simple as it is 04:52:03 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 04:52:36 *stassats* hands holycow a lisp 04:53:28 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 04:54:21 Does anyone know by chance a resource where someone spent time thinking about absolute-time sleeps/waiting and relative-time sleeps/waiting, and elaborating on pitfalls and when to use what kind for what purposes? 04:55:13 I keep on switching back and forth, never being content in particular cases 04:56:36 absolute to what ? 04:56:43 to the hardware clock ? 04:57:17 one could notice the difference with suspend 04:57:20 depends on the use case 05:00:25 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:01:09 -!- h_z12x [~Joseph@cpe-74-70-42-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:05:24 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 05:07:11 kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 05:09:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:12:17 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 05:16:56 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:21:00 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-194.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:23:37 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:49 kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 05:23:55 So, I guess if you use :test-not for UNION or INTERSECTION, a list such as (1 2 3) contains duplicates, but (1 1 1) does not. 05:24:22 I mean, if you use :test-not #'eql for instance. 05:25:25 *plage* is having a hard time imagining what UNION means if things such as :test #'< are used. 05:27:29 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66128a-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 05:29:41 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:37 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA6FE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:04 <_3b`> plage: an inefficient test for everything in list-1 being >= everything in list-2? 05:34:49 I am willing to believe you. 05:34:52 <_3b`> or maybe not 05:35:01 See what I mean? 05:35:05 *_3b`* suspects it means nothing 05:35:31 And what is it supposed to mean that a list "contains duplicates" if such a test is used? 05:35:55 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:37 I should be able to replace a list such as '(1 2 3) by just (1) because (< 1 2) so that's a "duplicate". 05:37:51 *_3b`* would say implement something that works for meaningful :test, and whatever happens with #'< is what you get :p 05:38:39 Right, any :test that is not an equivalence test would be strange. 05:40:15 <_3b`> you could always supply :key #'random to make it even more useful :) 05:40:28 Indeed. 05:41:06 <_3b`> or something like nreverse 05:41:25 Heh! 05:42:01 There might be a phrase about side effects in tests in there somewhere. 05:44:26 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:57:11 It is 4 minutes to 7am and I have been up also 90 minutes. 05:57:34 folks, what is the preferred tool for software documentation? 05:57:40 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.39.81] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 05:57:46 i.e. TeX, info, docbook, etc? 05:58:21 leo2007: Texinfo is not bad, but not ideal either. 05:59:18 what is the most popular one in the commercial world? 06:00:05 My wife works for IBM and they use a CMS, which by the way is the pits. 06:00:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:00:23 i see 06:01:24 some recent apps such as git uses some kind of xml tool 06:01:57 it is actually a nightmare to build though on systems like osx. 06:02:25 I would say a good macro system would be a minimum requement for a documentation system. 06:10:04 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 06:10:29 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 06:11:15 with the default method combination types, there is no way to force any primary method to execute 'init', then the method BODY and finally 'cleanup', right? 06:12:08 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:15:01 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 06:15:48 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 06:16:13 leo2007: That sounds exactly what :around is for. 06:19:49 the problems is the GFs to be defined accept different lambda lists and I have to define one around method for each of them. 06:23:34 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:54 Use a macro. 06:25:08 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-89.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:25:34 thanks. that's what I think too. 06:32:59 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:34 luis: ping 06:37:45 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:38:51 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:39:20 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:40:16 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:40:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-89.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:31 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 06:51:19 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:59 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAA1B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 06:53:59 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-134-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:01:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:05:13 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-194.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:26 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:07:25 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:08:33 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:11:52 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has left #lisp 07:30:19 -!- _8david [~user@pD9541AA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:33:20 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:34:49 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 07:35:00 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 07:37:05 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:40:19 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:41:54 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-49-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 07:50:05 Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.65.16] has joined #lisp 07:52:11 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 -!- Torkn [~chatzilla@dsl-220-253-76-236.NSW.netspace.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:54 FareWell: ping 08:00:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:00 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:02:27 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 08:06:37 tao_ [tao@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:53 -!- tao_ [tao@anapnea.net] has left #lisp 08:06:56 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-173-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:08:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.48] has joined #lisp 08:09:06 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 08:09:07 -!- Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.65.16] has left #lisp 08:12:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:14:13 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@91-164-151-253.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [] 08:14:43 Aszarsha [~foo@91-164-151-253.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:20:21 palter [~palter@72-254-61-32.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:38 -!- palter [~palter@72-254-61-32.client.stsn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:24:28 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:32 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:24:40 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:02 aw [~aw@89.204.153.65] has joined #lisp 08:25:51 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:26:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 08:37:33 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:50 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:24 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-5-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:38:40 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:45 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:38:52 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-237.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:52:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757810.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:38 it seems that CASE cannot be used on strings, right ? 08:55:07 then is there a simple way to avoid COND ? 08:56:35 galdor: perhaps alexandria:switch 08:57:02 hashtable? 08:57:28 (could be overkill for small cases) 08:58:29 yep I wanted to avoid a hashtable for a few elements 08:58:32 if you control a limited number of input values, you could always intern to a symbol and try case 08:58:50 i'll have a look at alexandria 09:00:43 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:27 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:03:29 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:05:00 Blkt [~user@93-33-139-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:05:23 Phoodus: that's killing, performance-wise. it may mean (multiple) hash-table lookups 09:05:38 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:06:22 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06:59 right, I'm thinking just a string-case macro that expands to multiple string= tests would be the sanest 09:07:02 easy to write, too 09:11:45 kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 09:15:42 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.19] has joined #lisp 09:18:47 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 galdor: look into alexandria 09:24:37 there's SWITCH which does what you want 09:27:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:45 _6502_ [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-231-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:37:26 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:49:34 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:00:10 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:02:40 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:05:15 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:22 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:34 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:08:08 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:11:10 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:54 kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 10:12:55 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:10 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:45 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:57 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:10 c|mell [~cmell@host86-140-164-235.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-194-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:49 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:33:22 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:35 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:01 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 Torkn [~chatzilla@dsl-220-253-76-236.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:40:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.249] has joined #lisp 10:41:27 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-194-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:03 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-59-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:47:06 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-134-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:33 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-59-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:05 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 10:56:11 I'm not seeing a #'ratiop. Is there any quick way of checking if a number is a ratio? 10:56:34 (besides grabbing the real type and comparing) 10:56:40 (typep number 'ratio) 10:56:54 fungo_ [~wangbo@222.247.154.236] has joined #lisp 10:56:56 ah, k 10:57:08 just turning to the types section and saw that too ;) 11:00:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:00:56 -!- skirsdeda [skirsdeda@lan-78-157-72-57.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:01 -!- fungo_ [~wangbo@222.247.154.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:00 fungo_ [~wangbo@222.247.154.236] has joined #lisp 11:08:12 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-6-14.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:39 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:11:22 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 11:11:26 Good evening! 11:12:43 hi plage 11:14:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:18:03 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:18:53 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:12 So, how would you people test something like UNION? For an equivalence relation, I checked that a set difference between what I expected and what is returned actually gives the empty list. But what to do with something like :test-not #'eql? 11:19:27 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 11:24:44 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:30:53 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:35:15 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-101-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:56 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:42:06 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:09 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:43:30 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:05 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-173-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:29 *plage* thinks #lisp participants must be tired from working on lots of Lisp projects. 11:47:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:47:44 it's all so quiet in here 11:47:51 what's up 11:48:29 hush! 11:48:40 plage: UNION with :test '/= or :test-not '= is strange... 11:50:02 In clisp, it seems to always return the second set, which doesn't respect the spec: "For every matching pair, one of the two elements of the pair will be in the result. Any element from either list-1 or list-2 that matches no element of the other will appear in the result." 11:50:16 asarch [~asarch@189.188.140.226] has joined #lisp 11:54:29 For (union '(1 2) '(2 3) :test-not '=), (= 1 2) (= 1 3) (= 2 2) (= 2 3) -> NIL NIL T NIL -(not)-> T T NIL T so we may choose, one or the other of each pairs (1 2) (1 3) (2 3) ; if we choose second, then we get (2 3 3) or (2 3). which explains why (equal (union '(1 2) '(2 3) :test-not '=) '(2 3)) is a valid answer. 11:57:19 slyrus___ [~slyrus@206.173.140.9.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:04 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 12:02:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.249] has joined #lisp 12:05:27 pjb``: Good to know I am not the only one having trouble with it. 12:06:00 plage: Normally we could use: (A  B) = A  B to test union, (with some finite superset). 12:07:08 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:30 I guess a good finite superset would be any object in either of the arguments. 12:07:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:08:04 That's the point, with negative tests (:test /= or :test-not =), I think it's not entirely consistent, because it's used to compare directly elements of A and B, not to build complements of A or B. 12:08:51 The problem comes probably from the fact that :test /= or :test-not = are not equivalence relationships. 12:09:04 pjb``: Yeah, that's what I meant when I pointed out the phrase "duplicates". 12:09:58 (c (intersection (c '(1 2) '/=) (c '(4 5) '/=)) '/=) -> (1 2 3 4 5) ; but (union '(1 2) '(4 5) :test '/=) -> (4 5) 12:10:15 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.4] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:25 Indeed. 12:14:53 So my answer would be that in the case where a true equivalence relationship is given to UNION, you can test it in general by reverting to INTERSECTION thru the complement, and in the other case, you may only check the result algorithmically, taking into account the implementation dependant variability. 12:15:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15:52 pjb``: Something like that may be what I end up doing. 12:16:13 -!- slyrus___ [~slyrus@206.173.140.9.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:26 -!- _6502_ [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-231-44.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:13 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 12:23:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:25:00 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:14 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-173-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:34:40 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 12:39:50 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:20 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-139-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:03 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:48:14 HG` [~HG@xdslez129.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:38 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:10 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 12:49:53 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:53:34 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:54:28 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`away 12:54:45 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:57:12 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-173-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:13 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-94-203.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:02 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 13:05:43 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:34 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:14:12 -!- fungo_ [~wangbo@222.247.154.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:14 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.140.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17:40 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has left #lisp 13:23:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24:22 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:41 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:18 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslez129.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:29 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:42 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:56 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:37 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-59-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:28 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-138-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:38 marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:07 G'morning all. 14:05:12 howdy nyef 14:07:32 *nyef* is one step closer to having TRACE :ENCAPSULATE NIL working on PPC... And several steps further away, as it turns out that some of the required code is not merely broken, it is actually missing. 14:07:53 how can i make the compile of ecl --with-x succed when the argemtns passwd get too much ? 14:08:07 arguments passed to ghe compiler 14:08:10 gah 14:08:32 do i have to increase stack size or what ? 14:08:44 Too much for the shell, too much for the kernel, too much for the compiler, what? 14:09:18 too much for the compiler i think 14:09:39 it sets me into the X package with a prompt and only one option (abort) 14:09:57 the compilation however succeeds onto the next steps 14:11:19 and just another one, too many argemtns passed to the function #, argument list (T T *) 14:11:44 and then again it wait's me to abort 14:15:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@12-235-236-2.att-inc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:16:20 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.19] has joined #lisp 14:18:03 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 14:18:44 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:20:23 is it the pipe size i have to set with ulimit ? 14:20:53 lichtblau: ping 14:23:17 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 14:24:39 nyef: I'm pretty sure trace :encapsulate nil worked on cmucl/ppc. 14:25:10 Yeah, but the PPC fun-end-breakpoint stuff just isn't there on SBCL. 14:25:36 I already know that trace :encapsulate nil (and breakpoints in general) don't work on -any- non-x86oid sbcl. 14:25:42 Yeah, it was missing on cmucl too, I think. I added it sometime ago when I still had a ppc. 14:26:50 Breakpoints and trace works on cmucl/sparc still. But had always worked, I think. 14:27:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:18 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-65.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:31 -!- seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:59 -!- Torkn [~chatzilla@dsl-220-253-76-236.NSW.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401064631]] 14:34:41 hvs [~hvs@adsl-75-34-28-116.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:34 what is the PAGE_SIZE ? 14:39:00 the size of a page? 14:39:42 The size of a page of virtual memory, either as far as the GC is concerned or as far as the host OS is concerned. 14:39:42 right, but my PIPE_SIZE is set to PAGE_SIZE and it has a value of 8 here, i don't know how that got there 14:40:15 it's in terms of 512bytes chunk of memory i think 14:40:26 would that mean 8*512 is the default ? 14:40:40 4096 byte pages? 14:40:48 ah 14:40:54 yep 14:41:00 i think so 14:41:10 err kb 14:43:29 are you sure? 14:44:47 4k pages is the classical norm for x86 unless you're using the various large-page extensions. 14:44:53 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:42 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:04 set logfile ~/#lisp.log 14:49:18 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:49:38 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:20 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:14 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:54:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:55:36 -!- drrho [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:09 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:33 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401064631]] 15:01:12 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:33 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:04:15 benny` [~user@i577A158E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:18 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:53 -!- benny [~user@i577A79AF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:22 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:06:11 hello, I seem to remember seeing something like "#| commented out code |#" used in other peoples code, now I tried it and I can't use it to comment out sections of code (I used to use #+nil for that). How is this #| stuff supposed to work? 15:07:14 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:07:31 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:38 ignotus: It's a balanced comment structure, so you need to pair #| with |#. 15:07:56 -!- aw [~aw@89.204.153.65] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 15:07:59 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 15:08:25 And things inside are ignored, so you need to mind your paren balance if you're trying to take out actual code that ends in the middle of a sequence of close-parens. 15:10:22 nyef: thanks I see. It works, I was confused buy weird fontification when I put it around code, but calling (font-lock-fontify-buffer) by hand fixes it (XEmacs user...) 15:11:55 I noticed the same issue using Emacs with long code blocks 15:12:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:07 ignotus: right. emacs has trouble handling it correctly. 15:13:10 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 15:13:40 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:15:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:16 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 slyrus___ [~slyrus@206.173.140.9.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:07 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:50 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 15:26:33 Blkt [~user@93-33-139-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:29:19 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:29:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 15:30:24 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:25 -!- slyrus___ [~slyrus@206.173.140.9.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:34:58 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:01 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 15:35:40 hi 15:36:23 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.252.166] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.253.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:21 dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-106-35.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:48:18 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:08 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:28 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 15:59:25 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:04 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-138-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:20 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:03:54 Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:04:02 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:05:35 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-138-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:15 astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:06:50 -!- astoon_ [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:11:46 toast` [~toast-opt@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:54 aw [~aw@p5DDAA1B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:48 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20061C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:16 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:26:27 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:36 -!- toast` [~toast-opt@m240e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:43 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 16:27:18 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:03 cannot find entry point for binary BUILD:CLX:GL.O.NEWEST?? wtf 16:28:20 and no other message either 16:29:04 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:29 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:53 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:32:57 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:03 -!- WVDSCHEL [~wim@195.207.16.86.static.hosted.by.easyhost.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:30 freshmeat [~freshmeat@92.25.156.228] has joined #lisp 16:34:32 Hey, guys... 16:34:47 In what respect is Lisp different from C? 16:35:02 Also, how easy or difficult would it be to translate a program by hand from Lisp to C or vice versa? 16:35:08 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:35:10 How many people did it take to implement Lisp? 16:35:27 Why wasn't Windows written in Lisp? 16:37:28 ... We don't have any way to use the breakpoint stuff -other- than TRACE? WTF? 16:38:04 nyef: BREAK? 16:38:14 Tell me, nyef... what interested you in Lisp 16:38:20 Was it the programmers that implemented it? 16:38:27 Was it the institution in which it was developed? 16:38:29 Nope. It's a function that invokes the debugger on a simple-error. 16:38:43 Was it the time of day in which you discussed it with your friends? 16:38:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has joined #lisp 16:38:58 ... Would someone please kick the troll? 16:39:18 nyef: /ignore is your friend 16:39:18 No trolling, nyef. No trolling at all 16:39:30 C-Keen: nyef is not your friend 16:39:35 But I am! 16:39:51 C-Keen the ice cream man is here -- what d'you want? 16:40:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:40:34 Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.64.188] has joined #lisp 16:40:41 nyef: breaking with trace has different consequences? 16:41:05 Trace is only one possible use for this mechanism, and there should be more. 16:41:19 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:24 ISTR that CMUCL at least used to have more use of this mechanism, if it doesn't still. 16:42:19 nyef: "wait, there are breakpoints?" 16:42:24 -!- freshmeat [~freshmeat@92.25.156.228] has left #lisp 16:43:02 kpreid: How do you think TRACE :ENCAPSULATE NIL worked? What did you think the "fun_end_breakpoint_guts" in $ARCH-assem.S was for? 16:43:15 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-139-100.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:43:57 *kpreid* Is Not An Internals Hacker 16:44:12 Heh. Fair enough. 16:44:18 Want to become one? 16:44:21 but I see, I had the explanation backwards 16:44:35 I thought you were saying there was a user breakpoint facility that only worked on TRACEd things 16:44:56 No, the user breakpoint facility was lost at some point along the way. 16:46:08 nyef: it would be a nice way to implement stop the world too. 16:46:25 ... No, it wouldn't. 16:47:00 if we went with safe points? Yes, it would. 16:47:41 In that case, maybe, but I suspect that the actual scenario would likely end up being the reverse of that. 16:48:05 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.129.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:48:06 how can one parse "unclosed" xml with cxml? I have the following input, notice that there is no endtag "" 16:49:19 ignotus: That seems more like a case for fixing the input than anything else, TBH. 16:50:33 nyef: the input is correct, maybe this is called asynchronous xml or something like that 16:50:58 there will be a coming at the end of the communication 16:51:03 Ahh. 16:51:24 So you're trying to parse a document partway through reception? 16:51:44 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:53 nyef: hehe yes, I did not make that clear sorry 16:53:07 Perhaps cxml is the wrong tool for this job? 16:53:38 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sometimes, one wishes one could simply disappear :P] 16:53:52 yeah, is there something available for this? 16:54:11 That I do not know. 16:54:19 *nyef* isn't big on the whole XML thing. 16:54:57 look for 'stream-based' or 'event-based' or 'SAX-style' parsers 16:55:00 ignotus: CXML is a sax-style parser, so you should be able to write whatever hooks you need. 16:55:23 kpreid pkhuong thanks, I'm going to look at the sax interface then 16:56:50 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 17:00:41 -!- c|mell [~cmell@host86-140-164-235.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757810.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:11 Okay, I'm up to six commits in my queue. Guess I should see about checking them into mainline... 17:09:28 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:25 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:18 blandest [~user@79.112.115.56] has joined #lisp 17:13:35 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 -!- dulouz [~dulouz@dsl254-119-219.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:17 -!- Vinnipeg [~sa1vador@79.126.64.188] has left #lisp 17:20:43 marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has joined #lisp 17:22:00 *Xach* writes his first DESCRIBE-OBJECT method 17:22:18 ignotus: my recommendation would be to specifically _not_ use SAX for this, but rather klacks 17:22:20 Xach: ooh, what's that? 17:22:36 ignotus: look at how i used cxml in cl-xmpp to see how it's done 17:23:22 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-171-25-183.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:15 lichtblau: thanks, checking 17:24:51 alama: i have a compact data structure for representing a HTTP response header, it's just the octet buffer and a bunch of integer indexes into it. not very nice in DESCRIBE output. i added a DESCRIBE-OBJECT method that shows the decoded header alist. 17:25:08 Blkt [~user@93-33-139-194.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:25:13 Xach: ah, cool 17:25:31 i only learned about the DESCRIBE-OBJECT gf in the last 12 months or so 17:25:50 where is DESCRIBE used, anyway? 17:25:54 in the inspector? 17:26:04 alama: i use it all the time in the repl. 17:26:10 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:13 ok 17:26:48 netytan [~netytan@85.211.15.138] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:29 Xach: One more trick for you, then. In SBCL, have a look at INSPECTED-PARTS to get things working with the inspector as well (works with slime inspector, too). 17:29:43 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:29:54 nyef: cool, will do 17:31:39 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:17 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:35 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-59-154.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:27 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-139-194.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:35:34 lichtblau: I'm writing a run-program based on posix_spawn. want to test it ? 17:37:26 lichtblau: hmm, cl-xmpp is a very nice usage example. I wondered about doing the parsing by hand to make it faster / less memory hungry rather than doing with cxml, but using cxml seems so f****ng simple that I'm going to use it for now, and rewrite later if neccessary:) 17:38:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.48] has joined #lisp 17:41:09 urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:08 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:43:00 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:23 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:44:09 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:41 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:54 exordinary [~exo@94.123.219.243] has joined #lisp 17:46:05 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-190-142.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:09 -!- exordinary [~exo@94.123.219.243] has left #lisp 17:49:02 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:06 co-ateis [~Koko@114.79.55.174] has joined #lisp 17:50:09 fe[nl]ix: sure, why not. What's advantages does posix_spawn have? 17:50:35 lichtblau: I don't have to write it 17:50:37 s/'s// 17:51:08 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:02 Is anyone using rucksack? 17:52:13 dlowe: drewc 17:52:34 hmm. 17:52:43 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:07 hmm, perhaps the file_actions (plus environment) are indeed enough to support most of things that I suggested to be done using bytecode. 17:53:40 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 17:53:47 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Quit: alama] 17:55:15 lichtblau: yes, but a few are left out: chdir, chroot, setsid, setpgrp, etc... 17:56:22 lichtblau: if I manage to find a BSD/MIT implementation of posix_spawn, I could slurp it into iolib and extend it 17:56:43 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-153.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:57:00 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Offline, probably at least an hour.] 17:57:55 nyef: nice, i was looking for something like this 17:59:43 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:02:26 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:17 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:13 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:23 -!- urnthr [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:29 pnq [asdf@ACA3BAAD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:05 -!- spec`away is now known as mrSpec 18:12:53 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 well, that should be easy enough 18:14:15 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/libc/gen/posix_spawn.c?rev=1.6 18:15:04 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:15:05 It has setpgid, but not setsid, IIUC, which means that I'm not certain how to use it out-of-the-box for hemlock. 18:15:28 hmm, STAILQ_INIT 18:15:47 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-020-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:53 WePac [~bubble@p54AA6FE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:23:35 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:23:42 looks like a linked list 18:23:43 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-020-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:43 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/sys/queue.h?rev=1.73 18:24:19 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 yay for freebsd :) 18:25:10 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:25:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:23 alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has joined #lisp 18:27:44 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B516.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F1CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:32:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:33:07 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:33:43 uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:52 -!- alama [~alama@62.169.67.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:35 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-29.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:38:19 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-219-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.164] has joined #lisp 18:50:29 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:52 -!- spoofy [~lsj@78.31.74.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:58 alama [~alama@a95-95-133-1.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:55:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:03 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 18:57:39 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-106-35.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:06:22 lichtblau: I pushed the commits 19:09:52 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:13:18 mardok [~mardok@74-140-103-230.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:24 astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-53.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:16:40 I'm trying to write a prime number function. Right now it works, but I can't figure out the logical and syntax to get it to stop early instead of going from 2 to n. Can anyone help? http://pastebin.com/gEr3QTHS 19:18:07 mardok: I think you'd have better luck using (zerop (mod num i)) for one thing 19:18:46 mardok: I'm not sure what you think floor and ceiling do :) 19:19:28 dlowe: I figured they do what floor and ceiling does in every other language :P 19:19:49 mardok: read about LET 19:20:29 besides of LET, you should also be using some kind of Lisp IDE and lisppaste 19:21:56 Dodek: vim is fine, this is probably the only lisp program I'm going to write ever 19:23:01 mardok: well, to be honest, vim is probably great for C development, but Lisp systems were not designed with unix philosophy in mind 19:24:23 Who needs a whole SLIME or what not just for one prime number func? 19:24:57 oh god. I saw the indentation there. I take back everything I just said. 19:25:22 schmrkc: yeah, that's why i suggested an IDE. 19:25:30 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:25:35 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:26:38 H'okay, if I move the whitespaces around to your specifications, can someone help me finish writing this prime function? :P 19:27:04 *schmrkc* laughs. 19:27:46 mardok: look, i already helped you 19:27:49 read about LET 19:27:52 and maybe LOOP 19:28:17 What is this IS-PRIME-FLAG ? 19:28:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:28:38 I just want the loop to stop early when is-prime-flag is set to nil 19:28:39 oh I guess setf maybe defines it when it is not there (: 19:29:25 You want the DO to break if is-prime-flag gets set to NIL ? 19:29:32 clhs do 19:29:39 huh. 19:29:47 Oh the bot is dead. 19:30:01 schmrkc: I would do that, but my professor is going to take off 20 points if he sees anything like a break 19:30:38 well break is maybe not the right word. to exit from it I guess. 19:30:48 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/s_ret_fr.htm#return-from 19:30:54 tp://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/s_ret_fr.htm#return-from 19:30:54 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/m_do_do.htm#do 19:30:57 mt 19:30:59 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/s_let_l.htm#let 19:31:00 tp://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/s_ret_fr.htm#return-from 19:31:03 Whoops 19:31:04 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/m_loop.htm#loop 19:31:11 there's no real need for LET though, is there? 19:31:17 DO be enough for sure (: 19:31:31 i can think of 5 ways to combine these operators to get the desired effect 19:32:04 you can manage to do it without any single of them 19:32:04 mardok: How are you exiting the loop now? Maybe you need to exit on that OR something else ? 19:32:20 i think even single DO will be enough 19:32:40 It's looping until i is greater than num - 1 19:32:47 right. 19:32:56 or, (zerop (mod n i)) 19:33:00 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:13 and you want it to exit the DO on that OR if (= is-prime-flag nil) 19:35:50 ok not = 19:35:55 but you get the idea I'm sure. 19:36:13 Thanks 19:37:41 mardok: I wish you are never forced to use DO ever again :) 19:38:31 yeah, there's LOOP or even ITERATE if you don't like the former 19:39:24 We're going to be doing brainfuck later on, using do is like being poked with a stick compared to that 19:41:40 mardok: Who is making you do brainfuck? Just curious :) 19:41:57 ech bed 19:42:04 mardok: happy brainfuck! 19:43:17 alexi5 [~alex@69.57.246.188] has joined #lisp 19:45:39 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-219-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:20 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20061C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:03 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:54 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:53:58 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-2-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-5-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:56:12 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-138-154.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:33 Okay, I'm back... and hopefully haven't broken the build in the past few minutes. 19:56:59 I did clear the interesting two-thirds of my patch queue, as well. 19:59:16 xinming [~hyy@125.109.248.222] has joined #lisp 20:01:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-94-203.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.252.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:04:33 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:59 rmarynch [~roman@bras-8-ge-62.122.200.235.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 Hello rmarynch. 20:07:43 Hello :) 20:08:33 I have a small question about %compile-component from compiler/main.lisp 20:08:40 Uh-oh. 20:09:24 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:42 So, what question? 20:09:49 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:08 Where is a point which is a boundary between IR1 and IR2 phases there? Is this a call into init-assembler? 20:10:38 Umm... 20:11:50 I'd argue that the IR2 "phase" actually begins with %compile-component itself, as it starts off by doing TN assignment, calling convention determination, setting passing locations, etc. 20:12:25 Basically, that's the first point at which "IR2" data starts showing up. 20:12:34 nyef: It is an interesting opinion. 20:13:11 nyef: So, the most of compiler code is IR2 code? 20:13:18 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:27 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 Now, converting to VMR, which is the actual VOPs and whatnot that are the "true" IR2, is just after entry-analysis, in IR2-CONVERT. 20:14:35 nyef: I also think that the boundary should be set there, this is logically correct (at least) 20:14:43 Although, it looks like there's a lot done between selecting VOPs and actually calling their generators to produce assembly code... 20:15:25 -!- hvs [~hvs@adsl-75-34-28-116.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:12 I might argue that the parts of %compile-component before the unwind-protect are more of a "halfway" phase between IR1 and IR2. 20:17:44 *nyef* sighs. 20:17:57 nyef: I want to have two parts in the book, IR1-related and IR2-related. Is this classification incorrect? (maybe I need to have more smaller parts instead of these two) 20:18:15 which bok ? 20:18:25 SBCL Compiler 20:18:29 what is IR1 and IR2 ? 20:18:37 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:18:38 introspection level 1 and 2 ? 20:18:41 It is SBCL-specific 20:18:43 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:47 oh ok 20:18:47 Internal Representation 1 and 2. 20:18:55 ah 20:19:21 Also known as ICR (Implicit Continuation Representation) and VMR (Virtual Machine Representation). 20:19:22 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81942e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:28 heyho 20:19:48 is there anyone with some swank know-how in this channel? 20:20:16 rmarynch: I guess you have to decide if you want to call the GTN, LTN, CONTROL, and STACK analysis phases IR1 or IR2-related. 20:20:33 They all -say- they're involved in IR2, but it's prior to the IR2 conversion proper. 20:21:20 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:25 nyef: At the time being I would like to call them IR1-related (but I have doubts...) 20:21:37 You can always change it later in revision. 20:22:04 Maybe they're IR1-related passes that set things up for IR2-conversion? 20:22:32 neyf: You are right. And yes, we can have this point of view too :) 20:23:18 On another matter, there's something about CATCH and LVARs that I haven't yet figured out, but am fairly sure that the conceptual mechanism that would solve it easily is a phi-function. 20:23:46 -!- xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23:51 Assuming that I remember which way round SSA goes. 20:23:52 redline65612 [~yaaic@m795e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 neyf: SSA is far now:) And, where we should insert it? 20:24:07 Yeah, exactly. 20:24:28 eliza^ [~eliza^@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:45 with cxml, if I have a DOM object, how can I get a string representation back? 20:24:53 But the simplified test case for bug 309099 ends up with a point where there needs to be two of the same LVAR live at the same time, which isn't right. 20:25:03 nyef: sorry, mistake in the nick. I remember Nathan said that SSA is not compatible with the current Python structure 20:25:20 It probably isn't, really. 20:25:39 But I don't have any other conceptual tool to apply here. 20:25:43 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:25:48 (Even if it doesn't really fit.) 20:26:19 nyef: I have some experience in SSA, but I cannot imagine how to insert it into current Python 20:27:34 nyef: the code is too much mixed, everything uses everything. We need to do some architecture improvements first 20:27:58 Yeah, I know. 20:28:05 Even separate directories for some stuff would help. 20:28:12 would it be possible to write a small swank client, to just run some expression ina new thread? 20:28:24 what is SSA again ? 20:28:26 (Which might fly once we officially move from CVS to something decent.) 20:28:30 or: is there any in-depth swank protocl doc? 20:28:31 sepult: Single Static Assignment. 20:29:24 nyef: do we going to give up with CVS? 20:30:02 AFAIK, all of the developers are using git, and then exporting to CVS to commit to HEAD. 20:30:26 there are a couple of features of CVS that are helpful 20:30:47 one of them, which is the major unsolved one, is some kind of way of getting a monotonically increasing version number 20:30:56 i am trying to read in gigantic files containing rdf triples and just text transforming them to a sexp format so that I can process them later, any tips on how to do this in a quick manner -> I started with read-line, modify it, write it, which was slow, I am now on a read-sequence into a 4k buffer, modify buffer and write it out, which is better, but any better alternatives out there ? 20:31:06 btw I am using sbcl, and this code doesnt have to be portable 20:31:26 which kind of rdf triples? 20:32:01 nyef: BTW, when do we have the 'official' SBCL Birthday? I heard it is some day in December? 20:32:14 rmarynch: Not sure, beyond December. 20:32:21 http://download.freebase.com/datadumps/quad-sample.txt <-- that is an example file, there are others from dbpedia too 20:32:27 http://sbcl10.sbcl.org/sbcl-0.0 20:32:42 (Which is why I suggested 1.1 for this December and annual minor version bumps after that.) 20:32:45 (that particular file contains quads) 20:33:01 Krystof: thanks :) 20:33:15 Dawgmatix: I would tend to suggest sed or awk 20:33:32 fair enough. 20:34:03 as an aside, are there any notes / references to do efficient io from lisp ? 20:34:40 all ive been able to find so far are a couple of franz tech corner notes 20:35:27 -!- redline65612 [~yaaic@m795e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 20:35:29 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA3BAAD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:33 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA6FE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 20:36:42 nyef: I think that we may try to insert SSA in the middle of IR2, before the machine code emission. The advantage is a comparatively small and simple primitives set, so the analysis will be not *so* hard. What do you think? 20:36:44 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:06 I think that that's too late for some of the analysis that's screwing up now. 20:37:33 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:38:12 adityavs [adityavs@123.237.216.169] has joined #lisp 20:38:25 doesnt anybody know abotu the swank protocol? 20:38:55 nyef: closer to Lisp, harder to analyse in SSA :) Also, do these faults known to be not possible to fix? Or they are just hard to find and analyse? 20:39:20 wakeup: I think you're going to have the best luck by looking at the messages exchanged in a typical slime session and the source. 20:39:20 gnus 20:39:44 wakeup: The messages exchanged should be in an emacs buffer somewhere in a running session. 20:39:45 how do I get the messages? 20:39:50 marioxcc [~user@200.92.86.143] has joined #lisp 20:39:51 ok 20:39:55 thx 20:40:00 rmarynch: I'm having trouble thinking about them, at least. 20:40:10 but its definitely over sockets as it seems 20:41:45 ah this is hard 20:42:18 I want to write a small client (maybe in c) to connect to swank and execute an "application". 20:42:27 this would solve slow startup of lisp apps 20:42:40 dont you guys think this is a good idea? hasnt anybody done this? 20:42:50 Why not just dump a core with the application loaded? 20:43:00 because its huge? 20:43:16 I dont have a solid state disk 20:43:26 What on earth is your target platform, then? 20:43:36 my computer 20:43:42 And feel free to dump a core with multiple applications in it. 20:43:57 I like my idea better 20:43:58 buildapp does just that 20:44:06 buildapp didnt work for me 20:44:18 why not just have a lisp running 20:44:20 wakeup: do you use sbcl? 20:44:20 wakeup: the relevant portions of the core will be cached in memory 20:44:21 wakeup: If you like your idea then do it. 20:44:23 why need mroe than one? 20:44:27 there are threads 20:44:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:44:41 xach: yes 20:44:56 wakeup: what trouble did you have with buildapp? i'd like to make it work everywhere, if possible. 20:45:17 I had an unexpected EOF 20:45:20 cl-launch worked 20:45:24 but its too slow 20:45:33 building applications in lisp is stupid 20:45:50 we should instead just call a function ina a running lisp and redirect output 20:45:57 Knock yourself out. 20:46:17 wakeup: Instead of using the swank protocol, you could use the http protocol and use hunchentoot. 20:46:30 ah christ 20:46:47 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:59 I dont want to use an html interface on my version control command line tool 20:47:18 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-156.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 Call it a SOAP interface instead? 20:47:58 I want to do something very simple, yet awesome, wich is probably easily doable with swank, there is just no documentation I can understand.... :( 20:48:00 Maybe just write the app in bash. 20:48:24 wakeup: You could probably use xml-rpc, through a proxy of some sort. 20:48:28 schmrkc: YES, indexing and search in bash 20:48:39 wakeup: or maybe using mdns 20:48:44 swank 20:48:47 Im telling you 20:48:51 its perfect 20:49:50 I think this would be a major improvement in lisp/unix integration 20:50:07 somebody must have done it before... 20:50:47 This is your chance to be that hero. 20:51:42 wakeup: I don't think anyone has done this before, no. 20:52:49 -!- rmarynch [~roman@bras-8-ge-62.122.200.235.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:00 yay -.- 20:53:02 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:53:12 where are the swank developers anyway? 20:53:25 the slime-devel list. 20:53:37 thats a good start 20:53:43 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-22-113.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:57:15 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-175-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:57:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:59 Somehow I have never had issues with slow startup times. 21:02:37 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:05:43 rmarynch [~roman@bras-8-ge-62.122.200.235.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 21:06:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:07:15 schmrkc: try a hello world with cl-launch 21:07:53 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-197.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:26 wakeup: I wouldn't do such an app in lisp though. 21:08:43 yes because it starts slow 21:09:06 wakeup: yeah a lisp daemon process is a nice idea 21:09:10 you would do it if you could say, hey connected to swank and executed format in 0.1 seconds 21:09:11 tbh I wouldn't do a hello world in any language. 21:09:18 wakeup: No, I would not. 21:09:34 nyef: Some info about SSA and CPS relations is in the article 'A Correspondence between Continuation Passing Style and Static Single Assignment Form'. It is easy to google. There are some advices on CPS to SSA conversion. So, maybe we can have some mix of both pipelines :) I will think of it more while reading the compiler sources 21:09:40 dont be so literal 21:09:57 ignotus: are you proficient in cl? 21:10:13 wakeup: I pretty much never use any apps from the command line, so I dunno man. 21:10:24 -!- adityavs [adityavs@123.237.216.169] has left #lisp 21:10:30 wakeup: intermediate maybe:) 21:10:35 except clbuild I guess. 21:10:53 I bet it starts slow 21:11:14 eh. no. 21:11:25 ;) 21:12:35 wakeup: I did a sbcl --eval with a hello world format. It took me all of 0.047s 21:13:00 I wouldn't even use lisp for something that just fires up and dies. It seems odd. 21:13:09 time gizmo --eval "(quit)" | ./gizmo --eval "(quit)" 0.02s user 0.02s system 84% cpu 0.038 total 21:13:24 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:13:28 ah, gizmo is SBCL for me 21:13:38 gizmo? :) 21:13:56 oops:) 21:14:33 so I guess the slow party is loading the libs with asdf 21:14:52 wakeup: yeah, gizmo is an SBCL core with all the librarias preloaded 21:14:59 libraries* 21:15:13 -!- rmarynch [~roman@bras-8-ge-62.122.200.235.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:22 that way its pretty damn fast to start 21:15:34 Obviously a hello world in C for me is about 47 times faster. but again.. this seems only to matter in tight loops where the app is fired up again and again.. and then.. I'd just write the loop in lisp and not run it from sh. 21:16:56 I'm not sure creating a process + connecting to swank is that much of a gain from just starting lisp all the time though. 21:17:02 But do some benchmarks (: 21:17:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:28 imagine a tool like gnu tar in cl 21:21:54 wouldnt it be obviously smarter to not load the app every time you do a tarx xf file? 21:22:12 ... Wouldn't it be more of a library for use by lisp programs anyway? 21:22:38 think about the end user 21:22:43 (tar #P"blargle" :outpu "blargle.tar" :compress :gzip) ? 21:23:11 no: 21:23:26 wakeup: Ok man. So for the 1 time each month or so that I actually tar I think the 0.03 extra s would make little difference for me. 21:23:34 swankc -s tar -e (tar argv) 21:24:44 yeah big computers make efficiency obsolete... 21:24:47 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:50 err - why not just use sockets or zeromq ? looks like all you want is command dispatch over argv 21:25:16 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:33 how? 21:25:53 I thought swank did the sbcl to socket translation 21:26:54 wakeup: or smart OS caches stuff that is often used. 21:27:20 whis discussion doesn't make sense. it would make sense to talk about how to make sbcl start faster... but then it would make more sense to talk about a lisp os running in a process with its own "shell" 21:27:26 s/whis/this/ 21:27:39 if youre really fussed over load time, just load sbcl at start time, have it listening on some random port, then write a shim c program that takes the args, connects over tcp / zeromq and voila 21:28:05 (not that i would do this, i would eat the second startup time and live with how things are now) 21:28:07 Dawgmatix: That's what I'm interested in seeing benchmarks of which actually is the fastest (: 21:28:20 Then I'd go back to the repl ;) 21:30:07 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@91-164-151-253.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:35 redline65612 [~yaaic@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:40 Aszarsha [~foo@88-121-119-125.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:58 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 21:36:21 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-22-113.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:36:21 *attila_lendvai* pushed a whole bunch of tests to hu.dwim.reiterate at http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi 21:39:11 And it looks like I didn't break the build. 21:39:15 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.15.138] has quit [Quit: netytan] 21:39:33 ... except, in retrospect, possibly for non-linux ppc targets running debug.impure.lisp. 21:39:42 Win some, lose some. 21:39:58 And it's not like I can test such targets, either. 21:39:59 -!- redline65612 [~yaaic@m395e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:45 Hmm, what kind of networking interface does ABCL provide? Where can I learn more about it? 21:44:08 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:00 Dawgmatix: does sbcl already include this listening feature? 21:48:37 or: how do I make sbcl listen? 21:48:59 -!- co-ateis [~Koko@114.79.55.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:07 *Xach* starts checking apropos 21:51:10 it should have sockets that follow something generic 21:51:24 it even can listen 21:52:06 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Networking.html 21:54:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:57:55 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:01 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has left #lisp 22:03:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:58 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-53.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:08:28 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:16:44 -!- uranther [~James@c-24-13-121-207.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:16:47 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.211] has joined #lisp 22:21:16 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:21:38 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-170-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:23:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:25:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:26:06 xiackok [~xiackok@94.54.83.231] has joined #lisp 22:28:07 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:40 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:58 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-170-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:01 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:17 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:50:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:52 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:52:44 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:02 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 23:03:43 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:14 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 23:09:24 seems silly to make my own but I can't find hash-reduce 23:09:58 I guess I really want hash-key-reduce and hash-value-reduce 23:10:02 *nyef* is frightened by the implications of the name. 23:12:15 perhaps more grammatically correct to say hash-keys-reduce and hash-values-reduce 23:17:47 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 23:18:29 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 23:19:02 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 23:23:11 Devon: perhaps you'll find one in a generic collections CLOS library 23:24:44 http://www.bittads.com/faq/ <-- I still don't understand what this does 23:25:06 also, how does lispm know it's written in CL? 23:28:56 mathrick: Developed by streamtech is a good clue. 23:29:48 true that 23:30:26 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:30:31 still, I have read all they have to say about the product, and I fail to understand what exactly is its function 23:31:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:18 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:11 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 23:35:15 Good morning! 23:36:12 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.30] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 Hello plage. 23:36:56 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81942e.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:38:01 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-138-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:51 snowbeard [~user@c-76-102-38-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:40:50 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200D36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:41:27 *nyef* sighs. 23:41:45 What's the matter? 23:41:45 Time to blow some of the rust off of my perl-fu. :-/ 23:43:15 Sorry to hear that! 23:43:44 hello plage 23:43:52 hey xiackok 23:44:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:44:32 you said good morning where are you from :) 23:47:05 Where I am "from" is a difficult question, but right now I am in Ho Chi Minh City for work. 23:47:09 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:06 plage: there is 02:44 am :D 23:49:17 xiackok: Where? 23:49:26 plage: turkey 23:50:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:51:26 Hrm... I think I may have disposed of my copy of the camel book, too... 23:51:58 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:55:25 plage: i finally adjudge to use clsql(sqlite) library for my project. i dont hard work with files 23:55:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:06 And now you have two problems. 23:57:01 plage: what problems?? :) 23:57:21 The one that you are trying to solve, AND SQL. 23:57:44 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 23:58:29 -!- mardok [~mardok@74-140-103-230.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:55 i used to sql on many web projects its not a problem for me