00:01:23 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:26 Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:42 iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA55DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:22 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:28 -!- WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA55DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:30 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 00:03:30 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 00:03:30 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 00:04:18 Hmm. 00:04:56 madmuppet006 [~alexander@203-211-87-223.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:05:21 If you were getting a tarball from a git snapshot for project wibblytron, would you prefer that it unpack into wibblytron/, wibblytron-126df773/ (the commit id), or wibblytron-20100529/ (the date)? 00:07:30 *Xach* picks one, moves on 00:14:22 drewc: or :around and specials if possible. 00:14:58 -!- maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:19:24 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: so long, and thanks for all the favors] 00:19:55 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-44.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:20:33 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:44 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-91-193-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:55 wow, it's been *hours* and sbcl is still at 1.0.39? 00:23:57 marcelinollano [~marcelino@248.Red-79-156-18.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:08 maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:23 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:28:50 Sorry, I've been more than a little distracted. 00:32:34 Xach: There you go, 1.0.39.1, one new failing test case on all targets. 00:33:15 Xach: I personally would prefer wibblytron/, the next option for me would wibblytron-126df773 (way behind though) 00:33:35 I would expect it to be wibblytron/ 00:34:53 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:35:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C355.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:35:05 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@248.Red-79-156-18.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:06 -!- nodie [~plat0n@158.Red-88-23-118.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 00:36:08 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:36:21 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:40 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:38:29 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:01 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:47 And 1.0.39.2, said test case fixed. 00:40:48 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has joined #lisp 00:40:48 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 Xach: Happy now? 00:41:18 quite, thanks. 00:42:17 I actually have another patch which fixes the other failing test for IMPORT, but I'm not planning to commit it any time soon. 00:43:34 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:52:45 -!- maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:06 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:53:45 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:34 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 00:59:31 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 01:05:36 plage [~user@118.68.253.103] has joined #lisp 01:05:41 Good morning! 01:06:27 hello plage 01:10:05 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:21 merry christmas all! :) 01:13:48 plage: you made me look for a clock to see if it isn't 0500 already xD 01:14:15 plage: what country are you visiting this time? and good morning :) 01:14:24 p_l: same here 01:15:07 I'm in Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam. 01:16:34 l34k [~Mibbit@cpe-72-129-28-65.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:13 plage: Anh la ngoui viet khong? 01:21:23 khong! 01:21:37 con em? 01:21:38 I think maybe I have talked to you about this before, I don't recall. 01:21:53 Toi la nguoi My. Song o San Diego, CA USA 01:22:44 Funny, just as you were saying you are in HCMC my Vietnamese wife was talking on my VOIP phone to her mom in HCMC who is right now in line to get on a plane to come visit us in the US 01:22:48 the good food 01:22:53 tessier: Anh la nguoi thuy dien. 01:23:13 -!- l34k [~Mibbit@cpe-72-129-28-65.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:23:27 tessier: Interesting coincidence. 01:23:54 tessier: Song o Bordeaux, Phap. 01:31:19 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:41 plage` [~user@118.68.253.60] has joined #lisp 01:33:45 -!- plage [~user@118.68.253.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:33:50 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:55 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.55.130] has joined #lisp 01:39:08 -!- plage` [~user@118.68.253.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:11 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 01:46:15 -!- iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA55DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 01:47:42 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:50:36 Intensity [UsRba9orpO@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 01:57:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:35 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:00:06 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:01:08 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDABDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:28 eva88 [wa6Z4JWenv@2001:470:1f11:6a1:32a1::2] has joined #lisp 02:03:41 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:39 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:07:36 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.55.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:03 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-252-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:26 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:23:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:23:59 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-105-243.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 02:24:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-105-243.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 02:24:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:29:01 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:59 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:37:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.113.111] has joined #lisp 02:37:55 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.72.62] has joined #lisp 02:41:32 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-178.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:44:55 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: actually leaving to dk] 02:45:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:07:46 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:09:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:08 http://labs.core.gen.tr/ I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned in #lisp before. 03:09:14 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:29 -!- coyo is now known as bandu 03:12:38 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-93-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:39 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:22:01 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:28 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:13 TR2N [email@89.180.135.57] has joined #lisp 03:25:26 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:25:28 ... Either it's slow to load, or I'm really hammering my link. 03:25:41 not only you 03:26:02 loaded up reasonably well for me. Do you have JS enabled? 03:26:15 It's... a little JS heavy. 03:26:31 Yeah, JS enabled. 03:26:34 but i've seen that already 03:26:45 But I'm also pulling down an OCW lecture video. 03:27:03 hi, do any of the ecl maintainers frequent this channel? 03:27:16 i don't think so 03:27:23 License is somewhat off-putting. 03:27:30 I think one or two might. 03:27:39 It also seems to have cookie support as a planned feature? 03:28:07 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 03:28:50 They need an proofreader. They're misspelling "effiency" [sic], confusing "lesser" and "fewer" (though the GNU Fewer General Public License might be amusing to see)... 03:30:02 it's a UCW fork, old news 03:30:28 ahh okay. 03:30:43 Slow development cycle at best (last update was... about 11 months ago?, previous update was 10 months prior)... 03:30:55 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 03:31:06 it seems to overuse all that JS 03:31:16 has a pretty website, too ;) 03:31:29 and I'll at least commend them for putting in some effort to make it easy to get started. 03:31:37 or at least make it seem that way. 03:31:42 Copyright not updated since '08, etc. 03:34:20 ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.32] has joined #lisp 03:35:04 nipra [~nipra@115.117.143.101] has joined #lisp 03:35:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:35:53 ... There's a good overall idea here, though. 03:36:20 I'll have to think about this. 03:36:38 nyef: you mean their dom thing? 03:39:08 Hadn't gotten that far, honestly. 03:39:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:41 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:32 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 03:43:45 rj-code [~user@112.198.136.224] has joined #lisp 03:44:44 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:46:53 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:52:42 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-34-11.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:56 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-34-11.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:57:00 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-93-128.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:59:39 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 04:02:18 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-106-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:49 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 04:09:36 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:10:57 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 04:11:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:27 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 04:11:33 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-106-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:53 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:13:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.71] has joined #lisp 04:14:10 -!- madmuppet006 [~alexander@203-211-87-223.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:15:33 drewc: thanks 04:16:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16:56 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-84-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:53 tomracine [~tomracine@75-17-152-46.lightspeed.racnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:05 -!- tomracine [~tomracine@75-17-152-46.lightspeed.racnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:30:39 RustyWheeler [~russell@60-241-37-219.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:37:12 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:41:43 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:35 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.73.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:25 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-91-193-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:53:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:55:47 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:30 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:42 how to make sure a directory exists and if not create it. 05:10:45 ? 05:10:54 clhs e-d-e 05:10:54 ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm 05:17:45 stassats: thanks. Don't know why I missed that one. 05:18:12 there was a function to convert a pathname to a path string, what is the name? 05:18:58 namestring 05:19:30 thanks 05:29:21 sorry for such a n00b question, but can anyone recommend a Common Lisp tutorial of the same caliber as"Learn Scheme in Fixnum days" and "Learn you a Haskell for great good"? I'm aware of Seibel's PCL, but also looking for something even more informal to lead up to it. 05:29:39 minion: gentle? 05:29:39 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 05:31:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:33:02 thx, i'll take a look 05:33:12 pdf only? not web html? 05:33:17 -!- pnq [asdf@172.162.164.21] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:33:48 pnq [asdf@ACA24632.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:51 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.113.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:40:33 toast-opt: There might be 'Casting SPELs in Lisp'  though that's a fairly basic look 05:40:39 http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 05:41:25 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177620855.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:41:42 AH i was looking for that the other day! 05:41:43 sweet 05:42:45 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.117.143.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:01 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:07 ansi common lisp from paul graham is good to start with 05:53:36 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:31 some would disagree 05:58:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.113.111] has joined #lisp 06:01:23 "The function BORDEAUX-THREADS:MAKE-THREAD is undefined." Well -- that's unfortunate. 06:01:47 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-160-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:05:30 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:06:35 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 06:06:40 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.72.62] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:07:15 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:46 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:44 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:14:48 stassats - i'm looking for something i can proselytize with. trying to optimize on lowering entrance cost -- so preferably something you can just read in a browser, not even downloading a pdf 06:15:11 in-browser repl (ala tryruby.org) would be awesome too 06:15:53 no, you're just lazy 06:16:06 ha 06:16:26 but that's not relevant here 06:16:41 well, i guess it does because i'm not writing it myself 06:17:17 you should be thankful that this book is even available for free 06:18:13 actually, I'm leaning toward PCL 06:18:18 also free 06:18:41 (and pretty good) 06:21:02 it worked nicely for me. but it's written like a book, so starts out slow 06:21:09 madmuppet006 [~alexander@203-211-87-223.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:29:08 nipra [~nipra@59.161.100.114] has joined #lisp 06:32:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.113.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:33:46 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:41:27 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:42:25 toast-opt: Gentle introduction is IMHO something I would rad *after* PCL. While PCL might seem to start slow, it is very fast paced, actually 06:42:44 after? really? 06:43:45 Gentle introduction then serves great purpose in making you understand why the stuff you're writing actually works, when details of cons-based datastructures and different styles of programming won't scare you. 06:43:47 p_l: but again, i'm looking for something that will give the reader a very good taste after the first 10 pages, and has code they can paste into a REPL as early as page 1 06:44:08 toast-opt: PCL with non-linear order of chapters, then 06:44:15 true enough 06:44:32 the first version of the mp3 database is a good "hook" 06:44:33 why everyone is so impatient nowadays? 06:45:01 perhaps a link to chapter 2, item 4 06:45:09 stassats: because they can get away with it 06:45:16 again, citing tryruby.org 06:45:21 supposedly 06:45:23 I'm planning onwriting a study guide 06:45:36 after I manage to pass the year :P 06:45:45 aha, in school? 06:45:58 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46:02 toast-opt: trying to not repeat 2nd year of university 06:46:12 I already have a long enough degree 06:46:17 you're already using lisp in 2nd year? 06:46:18 (5 years) 06:46:33 toast-opt: no, I'm using Lisp by my own volition 06:46:42 gotcha 06:47:00 there's a 4th year course that uses Haskell, and few that use Prolog or Lisp related tools 06:47:38 yeah, i have a coworker that went to a university that used Haskell for a large fraction of their courses. makes me feel like i missed out. 06:47:47 <-- went to a Java U. 06:48:05 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 06:48:23 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177620855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:51:25 unfortunately the programming courses here tend to deal with mostly java as well, at least in the first two years 06:51:36 BC -L 06:51:39 bc -l 06:51:40 oop 06:52:26 the low level stuff is in C, thankfully, the "different models of computation" course uses Haskell and some courses use Prolog and CLIPS. There's also one that I think uses either PHP or Ruby 06:52:28 neme4ta [~rpm@chat.sysert.ru] has joined #lisp 06:53:16 that's cool. Variety helps. 06:54:25 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 06:54:38 i met a guy once that went to a scheme school, and came out of hit hating scheme. Python is much better, he says, as it has classes and you can define functions everywhere [sic] 06:55:11 really, what it is, is that he wasn't talented enough to appreciate his first language until he had already left it behind. 06:56:48 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 06:58:20 I learned to appreciate my first language again after encountering Lisp and finally understanding Logo :-) 06:58:52 haha, Logo! my first programming language 06:58:58 also, seeing *good* examples instead of stupid fractals helped 06:59:18 yeah, i still haven't gotten around to seeing good examples of logo 07:00:43 i mean, i know it's from the lisp family, now. i've read about that. but my memories were of scripting animations with basic loops and such, so I can't say personally from experience 07:00:56 mswlogo got some from a book that accompanied UCSD(?) Logo 07:00:57 -!- _8david` [~user@pD9540BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:17:29 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:20:35 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 07:22:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:25:41 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 07:28:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:31:26 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-173-108.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:46:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:47:21 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-25.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:59 does anyone maintain a spun-out version of sbcl's docstrings-to-texinfo? 07:50:38 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-34-11.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:51:47 I have just started learning lisp and am trying to multiply two complex numbers .. my code is at http://pastebin.com/2X0yXnud but its not working .. any hints sure appreciated 07:52:35 common lisp supports complex numbers 07:53:02 stassats:yeah I know its an exercise 07:53:17 Im trying to learn 07:53:39 then, you didn't what's your problem 07:53:51 <_3b> (( ? 07:54:00 :p my code 07:54:23 <_3b> also, arglists indented like code is confusing 07:54:40 and using symbols from CL 07:55:10 <_3b> also real(...) and imaginary(...) 07:55:12 madmuppet006: if you want help, you need to describe what errors do you get, in what it doesn't work, etc. 07:56:05 *_3b* would have expected r1 i1 r2 i2 arg order too, but that won't break it if you are consistent 07:56:09 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:57:05 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.212.63] has joined #lisp 07:57:11 and you can use complex number from cl, but do multiplication yourself 07:57:24 <_3b> also, assuming real() is an attempt to call the function real, it takes 4 args 07:57:45 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 07:57:49 yeah doh 07:58:02 *_3b* wonders if this is the point to suggest reading a book to learn some lisp basics 07:58:35 madmuppet006: real() probably should have been (real ...) 07:59:11 there is no point in correcting this code, just scratch it 08:00:03 *ehu* agrees 08:00:59 start from defining a complex number data-structure, or just use COMPLEX 08:02:40 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:42 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA24632.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:06:20 Krystof: http://gitorious.org/iolib/texinfo-docstrings 08:08:49 fe[nl]ix: does that mean "that's a straight copy of one particular version" or "there are significant changes to sbcl's copy" or "that's being actively maintained"? 08:09:00 I ask because I'm about to try to make the generated indexes not suck 08:11:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-52.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:13:14 straight copy of a version of sometime ago(one year?) + few modifications to make it work on non-SBCL implementations 08:13:18 and actively maintained 08:14:22 I'm reading PCL and find it hard to install allegroserve in SBCL. Can anyone help? 08:14:22 plage [~user@118.68.252.246] has joined #lisp 08:14:27 Good afternoon! 08:14:40 minion: paserve? 08:14:41 paserve: Short for portableaserve. http://www.cliki.net/paserve 08:14:56 kenjin2201: try this 08:15:28 Thank you 08:17:55 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:48 kenjin2201: I just happened to came across this earlier today: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2895430/how-to-setup-a-webserver-in-common-lisp 08:26:54 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:27:02 It might be interesting to read 08:27:29 plage: how long do you plan to stay in Vietnam ? 08:28:26 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-40.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:29:59 sglinux [~sglinux@cm135.gamma91.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 RustyWheeler: Thank you. Is it easy to apply PCL code using hunchentoot? 08:31:39 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:32:55 I'm afraid I haven't tried hunchentoot yet, so I can't say. 08:33:12 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:34:42 d-c [~DC@118.229.96.40] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 whois plage 08:37:00 err , missed '/' 08:37:03 (-; 08:38:59 fe[nl]ix: one month 08:39:27 nus: You might know me as `beach' or `spiaggia'. 08:40:42 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:41:58 ahh, hello beach (-: 08:42:06 eugu [~eugene@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 08:42:16 whatcha doin' in .vn? 08:42:27 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:42:40 partying? 08:43:14 they use CL there too? 08:43:15 nus: Teaching a course in our undergraduate program. 08:43:34 nus: Some of them do (the ones who come to my CL seminars). 08:44:34 nus: My secret plan is to make VN entirely CL, so that they will beat the s**t out of western countries not only with lower salary but with productivity as well. :) 08:46:20 good! early exposure to CL is fine antidote to spreading Java/PHP plague (-: 08:47:10 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:48:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:53:28 Wow! They have thunderstorms here that are nearly comparable to those we get in Bordeaux! 08:53:59 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:54:14 nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 08:54:39 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has joined #lisp 09:05:01 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.212.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:12 plage: I'm thinking of paying you a visit towards the end of June 09:06:16 plage` [~user@118.68.252.112] has joined #lisp 09:07:33 fe[nl]ix: Here? Sure! I leave on June 28. 09:07:49 I'll keep that in mind 09:08:09 [sorry about the flaky internet connection] 09:08:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:09:52 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:10:03 -!- plage [~user@118.68.252.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:10:51 -!- plage` is now known as plage 09:17:05 ziggurat [~quassel@pool-71-252-187-52.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:54 -!- plage [~user@118.68.252.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:13 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@pool-71-252-187-52.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:11 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-020-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has joined #lisp 09:32:27 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:32:53 plage [~user@118.68.252.116] has joined #lisp 09:37:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:38:02 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:39:07 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:39:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:39:09 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 09:41:09 plage` [~user@118.68.252.116] has joined #lisp 09:41:39 -!- d-c [~DC@118.229.96.40] has left #lisp 09:44:18 -!- plage [~user@118.68.252.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:45:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:52 ehu: ping 09:49:28 hi 09:49:55 or rather 09:50:01 fe[nl]ix: pong 09:51:41 -!- Saul_Goodman [~stos@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:53:03 ehu: is there something wrong with or missing from http://gitorious.org/bordeaux-threads/bordeaux-threads/blobs/master/src/impl-abcl.lisp ? 09:53:41 *ehu* checks 09:54:33 are you getting compilation errors? 09:55:17 the macro with-lock-held seems wrong 09:55:26 but I guess you figured that one out. 09:55:28 no, but the ABCL code in B-T is old 09:55:50 should I support older versions ? 09:56:02 yes. the code for threads has moved to the THREADS package. 09:56:23 no need; the move was in 0.16, the old symbols will be supported to 0.22 09:56:33 that's about 1 year 09:56:43 then I'll remove old support too. 09:57:09 interested people seem to be using recent enough versions of ABCL. 09:57:52 ok 09:58:28 type ext:thread isn't exported from package threads 09:59:20 ah. that needs to be addressed. I'll have a look at it. 10:00:06 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.135.57] has left #lisp 10:01:00 oh, and (apropos "MAKE-THREAD") prints THREADS:MAKE-THREAD twice 10:01:21 that's weird. 10:01:58 I'll create tickets for it, so I won't forget. 10:02:37 i guess it finds it ext: and in threads: but prints using SYMBOL-PACKAGE 10:02:40 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 or rather just prin1 10:07:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-52.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:07:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:08:17 ehu: thread-lock and thread-unlock are deprecated. what should I use in their place ? 10:08:22 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:10:23 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:20 xan_ [~xan@24.Red-80-25-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:50 -!- leadnose_ [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21:26 -!- nus- is now known as nus 10:24:45 -!- plage` [~user@118.68.252.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:44 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:35:05 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:20 Pete` [~user@002.a.003.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:36:34 -!- Pete` [~user@002.a.003.syd.iprimus.net.au] has left #lisp 10:39:42 fe[nl]ix: with-thread-lock or synchronized-on? 10:43:28 ehu: as far as I can see, the effects of with-thread-lock and synchronized-on have dynamic extent. I need something with undefined extent 10:44:03 ok. yes, they do have dynamic extent. 10:44:42 I declared it deprecated because I felt like it's a dupe of the mutex code 10:45:07 -!- madmuppet006 [~alexander@203-211-87-223.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:46:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:39 WePaac [~bubble@p54AA55DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:13 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:57:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:58:30 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 11:00:46 in ABCL, can I somehow specialize on the specific java-class of a java-object? 11:01:19 (defmethod meth ((obj java-object)) ...) is obvious, but can I further restrict it to a specific java-class or interface? 11:04:49 ehu: was that taken out when JavaClass was removed since its no longer supported by a LispClass superclass? 11:05:18 what delYsid asked 11:05:19 delYsid: I don't have experience with it personally, but it should be possible. could you try mailing the mailing list? I think alessio stalla (astalla on irc) could be using it 11:05:37 dmiles_afk: JavaClass is now implemented in Lisp instead 11:05:40 as java-class 11:05:53 using the metaclass feature. 11:06:07 other than that, not much changed 11:06:08 ok .. it possibnle it still works 11:16:44 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:20 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:19:28 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 11:22:31 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:38 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 11:26:19 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:25 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 11:26:51 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 11:30:10 HG` [~HG@xdslat196.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:47 maden 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[~seg@adsl-99-91-193-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:24 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-76-254-18-169.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:06:07 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.220] has joined #lisp 13:07:03 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-16-160.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:53 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:07 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:09 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslat196.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:44 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 13:24:14 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-020-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:15 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:41:42 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:21 chrismay [~user@d83-176-155-203.cust.tele2.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:11 hi, how to pass data to a macro by a function so that the macro gets compiled only after is received the data from the function? 13:49:00 what I want is a program that uses macros as a human would with an editior ... 13:50:35 billitch [~billitch@p4FCDFD8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:01 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:22 longkid [~longkid@113.22.128.47] has joined #lisp 13:53:32 xan_ [~xan@24.Red-80-25-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:55:03 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.128.47] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:21 longkid [~longkid@113.22.128.47] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 hello all 13:57:19 I need to run an application written on cl-sdl. Therefore, my system need to be installed UFFI, ASDF, cl-sdl(synaptic). 13:57:52 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:58:07 But i don't know what I should install first 13:58:58 chrismay: there's really no point in doing that. 13:59:13 What do you really want to do? 13:59:55 longkid, Have you checked out lispbuilder-sdl? 14:00:16 Oh wait the app using cl-sdl, nevermind 14:00:19 Guthur: not yet 14:00:28 chrismay: A human use an editor to create a text file. So you can write a text file. Then a human uses load or compile-file to process it, so that you can do the same. 14:01:20 pjb: okay, let's say that I would like to write a web gui that takes data from a user and builds a program consisting out of clos object and methods out of this data. How do I go about it? 14:01:27 longkid, The order isn't really that important, usually, ASDF will come with SBCL if that is the implementation you are using 14:01:48 longkid, You should try clbuild 14:01:53 chrismay: ok. You can build your forms and call EVAL. 14:02:20 chrismay: there's a security risk however, that the user may provide forms that will break your web application. 14:02:40 chrismay: so think about it! Don't you want a separate virtual machine? 14:02:41 Guthur: I already installed clbuild and sbcl. 14:02:50 chrismay: the data is /data/ or are we talking about code? 14:04:27 longkid, Well then you have ASDF already. But it doesn't seem like clbuild has cl-sdl 14:04:36 You can add the repo manually though 14:06:10 hyno: just thinking about passing data to macros before they get compiled but how is code different? 14:06:12 Guthur: I don't understand. So do I need to install asdf. 14:06:29 longkid, No you do not need to install ASDF, SBCL has it 14:06:32 chrismay: No, you don't pass data to macros. You build forms! 14:06:54 pjb: okay macro take expressions, not data, errm 14:07:04 (list 'dolist (list 'x (list 'quote list-from-user)) (list 'print 'x)) 14:07:33 No the point is that macros are compiler hooks, compile-time stuff. You cannot use them at run-time. 14:07:54 Guthur: How about UFFI and cl-sdl(synaptic)? 14:07:55 The only think you can do at run-time is to build a form, and pass it to eval (or compile). 14:07:56 It's surprising that clbuild does not seem to have UFFI though 14:08:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:36 pjb`: huh? sure you can. a good lisp environment provides an interpreter so you can play with macros dynamically. 14:08:54 hypno: the entry point to the interpreter is EVAL. 14:09:14 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDABDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 14:09:22 pjb: I want to compile macros at "runtime" only once at the start of the application 14:09:36 longkid, You can add the following line to wnpp-projects in clbuild directory to allow clbuild to get UFFI 14:09:37 uffi get_git git://git.b9.com/uffi.git 14:09:49 pjb: the application in the application so to speak 14:10:09 longkid: Then you can use clbuild install uffi 14:10:30 You can use: (EVAL form), (funcall (COMPILE nil `(lambda () ,form)), (funcall (COERCE `(lambda () ,form)) 'function), (load (with-open-file (src "out.lisp" :direction :output) (print form src) (pathname src))), etc. 14:10:52 Guthur: can you show me in more detail? I'm a newbie. 14:12:09 pjb: I remember someone telling me about a special top level form for this purpose but maybe I'm wrong. 14:12:17 longkid, clbuild/wnpp-projects contains a list of repositories for clbuild to search 14:12:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:45 chrismay: nothing special. Usually it's done with load: Toplevel[1]> (LOAD "user-supplied-code.lisp") 14:12:51 i'm sure somebody already suggested lispbuilder-sdl 14:13:03 stassats, Yes I did 14:13:27 But I think this is some one else's application he is trying to load 14:14:58 longkid: add this to wnpp-projects to allow clbuild load UFFI 'uffi get_git git://git.b9.com/uffi.git' 14:15:01 remove the ' ' 14:15:28 You can do a similar thing for cl-sdl, but it may have dependencies as well 14:16:13 longkid: If you look in clbuild/dependencies you will see how to add those dependences for a particular system 14:16:25 Guthur: OK. I find it. I can add that line in any line? 14:16:27 Sorry I may not be the best at explaining 14:16:56 longkid: Ya sure any line, I usually just add it at the end. 14:17:54 You could add a comment like #Additional Repositories 14:19:47 Guthur: where to put 'clbuild install uffi'? 14:21:17 it's a command 14:22:06 stassats: put that command in terminal? 14:22:49 pjb: seems simple enough, thank you 14:23:08 longkid, Yes clbuild is ran from the terminal 14:23:24 Type 'clbuild' to get a list of the available command 14:23:50 Guthur: Thanks a lot. I'll try to install cl-sdl. 14:23:57 sorry ./clbuild 14:24:37 longkid, You are welcome 14:25:41 I have to build expressions out of the data before passing it to eval etc. I know that but thanks for making this clear once more 14:26:27 Guthur: I've installed uffi successfully. 14:27:09 Ha, take that, texinfo 14:27:14 Great, don't forget to start your lisp image with ./clbuild slime 14:27:32 longkid ^ 14:28:16 Guthur: I don't understand. What should I do before I can use uffi? 14:29:20 longkid, By using ./clbuild slime, clbuild will change asdf:*central-repository* to point to clbuild/systems/ 14:29:42 Which will allow you do load the systems, you can do that manually if you prefer 14:30:13 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-44.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:33 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 14:30:53 If you haven't been using clbuild for all your systems then you might be better doing it manually, but you will lose a lot of clbuild's benefits when doing it manually 14:31:57 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:32:59 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:59 Guthur: I run it. But it seems not working. Emacs window appears and then doesn't do anything. 14:35:01 longkid: Is there no REPL? 14:35:01 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:36 longkid, Try ./clbuild install slime 14:36:21 Guthur: I already install emacs and I used slime before 14:36:44 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:48 longkid, But not through clbuild 14:37:20 In my opinion if you are going to use clbuild you are best to embrace it fully and do everything through clbuild 14:37:29 Otherwise it can just get messy 14:37:41 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:43 mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 Others may have different suggestions. 14:38:10 Guthur: Yes. It seems so messy. 14:38:20 \quit 14:38:38 -!- chrismay [~user@d83-176-155-203.cust.tele2.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:38 longkid: That's why I just use clbuild for everything. 14:39:13 longkid, It makes everything easier 14:40:01 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 14:40:30 so if you want to use clbuild from everything you should do ./clbuild install SBCL && ./clbuild install slime 14:40:45 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-252-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:59 Then when you want to use slime you ./clbuild slime 14:41:14 from/for 14:41:30 Guthur: Now I use slime through emacs 14:41:44 That will load emacs with slime automatically 14:42:01 aw|rerun [~aw@141.76.6.142] has joined #lisp 14:42:03 minion: tell longkid about clbuild 14:42:04 longkid: please look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 14:42:36 longkid, Have a read through the clbuild project web page 14:44:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.106.77] has joined #lisp 14:44:25 -!- billitch [~billitch@p4FCDFD8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:49 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 Guthur: OK. I'll read. Thanks. 14:45:24 G'morning all. 14:49:15 hi nyef 14:51:49 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:05 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:32 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:51 benny` [~benny@i577A1EC5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:28 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8876.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:04:20 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 15:04:47 I'm beginning to think that a regular email to sbcl-devel about the status of the bug tracker might be a good thing, to go along with the reports on the test suite that I've been doing. 15:08:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:08:31 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 15:11:01 marioxcc [~user@200.92.170.122] has joined #lisp 15:12:54 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:17:32 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.212.227] has joined #lisp 15:19:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@24.Red-80-25-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:20:39 mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has joined #lisp 15:22:48 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:50 tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.60] has joined #lisp 15:26:18 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:45 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 15:31:05 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.212.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32:51 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:10 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 15:36:22 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:00 -!- sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:35 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 15:39:13 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.106.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:35 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 15:41:12 -!- sepult`` is now known as sepult 15:41:35 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:48 billitch [~billitch@dslb-094-223-095-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:00 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.92.4] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:44 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:33 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 15:49:57 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 15:50:58 -!- Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:54:25 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:08 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:30 fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-20-68.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 -!- fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-20-68.umts.vodacom.co.za] has left #lisp 15:57:01 fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-20-68.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:57:15 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 15:57:39 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:18 phryk` [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:04 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:40 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:40 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 dmiles_afk: Do you remember how it used to work? I can grep my way through sources to figure out the exact details, just from my current reading of the code I dont see a way to do it and havent found any example usages either. 16:05:05 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2014CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:01 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.68.89.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:11:46 hi, new to common lisp, trying to figure out how to get clozure cl to load external libraries, using windows. 16:12:05 minion: tell fallen` about ASDF 16:12:06 fallen`: have a look at ASDF: asdf is Another System Definition Facility. http://www.cliki.net/ASDF 16:12:10 fallen`: what libraries do you gave in mind? 16:12:36 public ones 16:12:41 many should have their common-lisp bindings, loadable via ASDF mentioned above 16:13:33 that isthe thing i have been struggling to do ... i managed to do it in sbcl with its init file ... can't seem to figure out how to write the ccl version and where to put its init file 16:14:28 i have in mind cl-opengl and lispbuilder-sdl + alexandria, babel, trivial features, cffi 16:15:44 fallen`: on windows it is enough to download them and put to the same directory (site/) as tutorial for lispbuilder says to put lispbuilder-sdl into 16:16:10 fallen`: what does (logical-pathname-translations "home") say? that is where you must put your ccl-init 16:16:21 fallen`: should be in (merge-pathnames "ccl-init.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname)) 16:16:34 AFAIR, the lispbuilder-sdl code - when you load it with asdf - will automatically load all its dependencies 16:17:18 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.128.47] has left #lisp 16:17:55 thanks :D 16:22:42 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:25:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@dslb-094-223-095-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:48 -!- phryk` is now known as phryk 16:28:25 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:21 -!- nipra [~nipra@59.161.100.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:31:15 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:11 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:40 -!- brown is now known as Guest28462 16:42:28 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:46:12 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 16:46:26 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 16:49:27 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.92.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:53 -!- neme4ta [~rpm@chat.sysert.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51:07 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81a20d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:13 neme4ta [~rpm@chat.sysert.ru] has joined #lisp 16:51:14 hiho 16:51:41 is there a (max ...) for lists? like (max '(1 2 3)) => 3 16:51:59 wakeup: (reduce #'max ....) 16:52:19 Yeah, REDUCE, APPLY, etc. 16:52:28 clhs reduce 16:52:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 16:52:31 clhs apply 16:52:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 16:53:00 thx guys 16:54:18 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:13 WePac [~bubble@p54AA76A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:33 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:07 WePaac [~bubble@p54AA76A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA76A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:57 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 -!- fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-20-68.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:12:47 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.142] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 17:13:17 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:04 stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:15:45 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:57 Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:47 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:21:04 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:14 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-91-193-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:21:29 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:44 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:26:19 nipra [~nipra@115.118.95.210] has joined #lisp 17:27:24 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 chrismay [~user@d83-176-152-146.cust.tele2.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:57 You propably know postmodern and the s-sql part of it. Given that saving function calls by using macros isn't an issue, what other reasons are there for s-sql? Or, what are the benefits of writing of program similar to s-sql? 17:34:40 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.170.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:56 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:35:36 To be honest. To me s-sql seems urgly but maybe I'm just to stupid to recognize the beauty of it. 17:35:40 chrismay: lispers like s-expressions 17:36:15 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.118.95.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:21 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: lnostdal] 17:36:51 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:38:29 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.68.89.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:13 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1AB7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:40:18 drewc: are the contraints of lisp's s-expression so severe that you have to define a second "s-expression language" (s-sql) on top of it? That's how I see it, or isn't s-sql a second "s-expression language" on top of "lisp s-expressions"? 17:40:21 Doesn't everyone love s-exp 17:41:01 chrismay: eh ?? 17:41:39 Hrm. 1 critical bug, possibly fixed but not reported as such. 14 high bugs, 5 of which are platform-specific, three of the platform-specific bugs are possibly fixed but unreported, two of the platform-specific bugs might be arguable down to medium. 17:42:35 One bug that requires defining the right thing to do when an egregious stack overflow occurs. 17:43:29 chrismay: constraints? people use sexpressions for their DSLs, etc because it is pragmatic and nice in lisp. you also make high use of what has been already made for you by doing so. 17:43:42 chrismay: s-sql is S-expresion syntax for sql 17:43:57 makes for easy construction of more complex elements 17:44:01 chrismay: s-expression is a syntax, the semantics are still SQL 17:44:14 The remaining eight bugs are all compiler-related, and include three which appear to be expressions of the same underlying bug. 17:44:21 lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:41 chrismay: if you prefer strings to s-expressions, then lisp is probably not going to be your thing. 17:44:44 hypo: contraints e.g. the first element of the list is a function name 17:45:06 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 chrismay: what? 17:45:26 xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has joined #lisp 17:45:43 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:56 hypo: one contrains of s-expressions in lisp is that the first element of the s-expression has to be a function name 17:46:17 chrismay: nonsense 17:46:26 segv [~mb@p4FC1A08C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:27 chrismay: i have no idea were you got that from. 17:47:13 otherwise you have to resort to macros? 17:47:28 I'm here to learn from you, please don't forget that :) 17:47:49 you seem very much confused. have you read PCL or CLTL2 or any lisp book? 17:48:00 minion: tell chrismay about gentle 17:48:01 chrismay: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 17:51:14 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:53 I'm talking about the evaluation rule page. 9 ANSI Common Lisp by graham. 17:53:16 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:45 Sure, except that's for lisp source forms, which are a subset of s-expressions, not for s-expressions themselves... and graham is -never- authoritative. 17:54:02 minion: graham crackers? 17:54:03 graham crackers: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 17:54:44 chrismay: you are missing the entire point of 'code is data'! 17:55:17 drewc: can you be more specific please? 17:55:38 '((this) is an s-expression) 17:57:09 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 17:58:31 (defun my-compiler (form) (typecase form (cons (if (consp car form) `(funcall ,(car form) ,@(cdr form)))) (t form))) 17:59:22 c|mell [~cmell@62.242.28.58] has joined #lisp 17:59:31 (my-compiler '((this) is an s-expression)) -> (FUNCALL (THIS) IS AN S-EXPRESSION)) 17:59:43 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 code is data is data is code, and s-expressions are data first 18:00:10 drewc: okay, s-expressions are list-based data structures that represent semi-structured data but there have to be disadvantages when you give up the contraints lisp puts on to s-expressions. Otherwise there would't be a reason for lisp to have these contraints. 18:00:34 your conclusion does not at all follow your premise 18:00:52 they aren't constraints, they are just semantics of how the data structure is interpreted by the compiler/interpreter 18:01:57 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:01:58 *drewc* feels the rage building and decides not to waste his time :) 18:03:12 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:29 hrm... where has the bordeaux-threads page at cl-net gone off to? 18:05:13 chrismay, ok, could you enumerate constraints which you think "lisp puts on to s-expressions"? 18:06:37 nus: I guess every situation where it makes sense to use macros examplify one such contrain 18:07:06 chrismay: that's not enumerating 18:07:09 oic... they've moved to git and the website was served right out of darcs 18:07:29 ehu: execuse me, I never said it is :) 18:07:41 chrismay:no, but nus asked you to 18:08:05 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 18:08:09 chrismay: in languages where the input to EVAL is a string (like say python), does python place constraints on what strings are allowed to contain? 18:08:40 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has left #lisp 18:08:41 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 18:08:47 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 18:09:28 chrismay, its conStrainTs, btw, and the only constraints there're are put on sexps "by themselves" that is their syntax. Any semantics ascribed to the said syntax is by definition is not "theirs". 18:09:45 ejs [~eugen@103-168-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 drewc: fixed 18:10:20 fe[nl]ix: thanks! 18:10:24 Saul_Goodman [~stos@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:06 chrismay, so either you have some particular semantics in mind or you're just quibbling. 18:11:19 fe[nl]ix: http://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation <--- errors 18:12:02 pnq [asdf@172.131.236.193] has joined #lisp 18:13:45 nus: maybe I' wrong but you seem to have the need for a feeling of superiority 18:14:05 *drewc* 's trolly senses are tingling 18:14:47 -!- ejs [~eugen@103-168-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:57 chrismay: or, alternately, you seem to have the need for a feeling of inferiority. 18:15:06 roman [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 -!- roman is now known as Guest21146 18:15:38 drewc: yes, which type suits you best is a matter of taste I guess :) 18:16:02 anyone around using parenscript? 18:16:14 nus- [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 18:16:35 turbo24prg: I use it, no expert though 18:16:46 Others around here will use it as well 18:16:47 @, getprop, .. don't work for me. tried both 2.1 and git 18:17:14 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:25 Works fine for me, use lisppaste to show your code 18:17:32 got warnings that dot-syntax got deprecated. 18:17:33 lisppaste: url 18:17:40 -!- nus- is now known as nus 18:17:41 umm still out of action 18:18:02 chrismay: nus is obviously quite superior to you in the context of knowing what he's talking about. I suggest you either take note of that fact, or piss off ;) 18:18:31 turbo24prg, Need to see code. 18:18:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/110974 18:18:59 sorry, got disconnected here. 18:19:13 drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:23 stipet` [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:19:36 turbo24prg, try ps:@ and ps:getprop 18:20:01 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:34 nus: you didn't miss anything interesting.. i'm just taking chrismay to task for his method of asking for help and the questioning the motivation behind the answers. 18:20:45 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:37 not only does it make me not want to help, but the only thing holding me back from a swift /kick in the rear is that it's sunday and i'm in a peaceful mood :) 18:21:42 chrismay: what you need to do is back down. please realize that there are people here that have much more lisp experience than you, and since nobody have a fucking clue what you are on about, that ought to be a clear indication that you are seriously off track. 18:21:45 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 18:21:58 chrismay, what I definitely have need for is clarity of the questions, and I find it useful to play opponent role in some discourses to help people formulate the questions they state, and find that process mutually beneficial. I beg your pardon, if that somehow made you feel inferion. 18:22:04 Guthur: oh, thanks. works in the repl now 18:22:32 nus: well put! 18:22:37 wrote a small compile script that calls ps:ps-compile-file 18:22:49 nus: thank you, quibbling certainly distracted me 18:23:01 turbo24prg, If you have (:use #:ps) in your package you wont need the ps: 18:23:02 should rather :use it in my package? 18:23:06 Indeed 18:23:19 -!- Saul_Goodman [~stos@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:23:20 http://lispdoc.com/ seems useful. 18:23:29 thought it would use the ps by default for the file 18:23:37 oh well. thanks a lot! 18:23:57 turbo24prg, You are welcome 18:25:50 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 18:25:54 does anyone know what is the best way (using bordeaux-threads) to sleep until a condition is true (and/or a timeout is met) ala http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw445/LWRM/html/lwref-399.htm#pgfId-1059439 ? 18:26:44 daniel [~daniel@p5082B83D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:39 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:28:02 -!- Guest21146 [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:08 well, the obvious works i suppose... i wonder if i can re-structure it to use condition variables... 18:29:33 _roman [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 18:29:45 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082B6CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:03 drewc: (loop (test-fn) (sleep 0.01)) ? 18:30:16 is there a reason why they deprecated the dot-syntax? way more @ and getprop now :/ 18:30:54 turbo24prg: because the focus of the project changed (for the worse IMO) and the new authors don't seem to care about existing users much 18:31:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:37 turbo24prg: there is always http://darcs.unknownlamer.org/parenscript-classic/ , which is what i use :) 18:31:39 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:55 aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:16 drewc: hum, what's the new focus? 18:32:23 drewc: uh, cool. thanks 18:33:08 they seem to want parenscript to be more of a CL that compiles to JS. the original was a JS with a sexp syntax. 18:34:02 i personally have no use for CL in the browser, i don't think the gains are worth the increase in complexity 18:34:53 <_roman> Hello. Does anybody know when SBCL developers are going to add SSA pass in the compiler? I see it is present in the TODO list already. 18:35:07 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:20 _roman: At the current rate, approximately never. 18:35:38 That said, if you want to pitch in... 18:35:41 fe[nl]ix: yeah, only i don't think i want the (sleep) in there though, that's really the issue. 18:35:43 well, building larger webapps is no fun in js. having macros helps a lot. would be fine with both the new and the classic parenscript 18:35:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:36:00 fe[nl]ix: i guess i have to pick a battle here.. CPU time vs real time :) 18:36:11 drewc: that's what the LW scheduler does anyway 18:36:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:16 <_roman> I just ask to make sure that the sources are stable :) 18:36:17 drewc: except in 1-2 cases 18:36:26 fe[nl]ix: yeah, but i'm using SBCL here 18:36:45 drewc: yes, but SBCL doesn't have a scheduler of its own 18:36:48 _roman: ... your nick looks familiar. 18:36:55 ah fair enough 18:37:08 sbcl sources... stable? 18:37:17 turbo24prg: I personally don't mind the current setup, but then I lack the perspective of having used the classic PS 18:37:22 drewc: Large parts of them are. Like ROOM, for example. :-P 18:37:28 :P 18:37:52 _roman: Are you Roman Marynchak? 18:38:02 <_roman> nyef: yep, I want to make sure that my book will not be outdated soon, when SSA is coming into play. 18:38:09 <_roman> Yes, I am. 18:38:19 Thank you for the wake up call this morning about the bug tracker. 18:38:49 <_roman> Anyway, I still do not know the rules about bugs tracking 18:39:07 _roman: great job so far, i've really enjoyed what you've written so far 18:39:08 I've got a preliminary breakdown of the top fifteen bugs now, and an action plan, which includes sending a status email to sbcl-devel the way I've taken to doing for the test suite. 18:39:13 drewc: but yes, you could modify the sources of the code that you need to overview in order to use condition variables 18:39:49 s/so far$// 18:40:11 <_roman> thanks. I am new to IRC, so I am just starting to use it 18:40:12 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:41 stipet`` [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:40:43 _roman: I've... misplaced the URL for your site. Mind sharing it again? 18:41:20 I just googled 18:41:22 http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/ 18:41:26 <_roman> nyef: http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/ - this one? 18:41:26 it contains diagrams!! 18:42:23 today, I have achieved indexing the sbcl manual that only sucks a little bit rather than having everything be indexed under S 18:42:37 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:39 -!- stipet` [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:00 Ah, cool. Thanks. 18:43:11 <_roman> One more question: how should I do to make sure that my patches are okay for SBCL? 18:43:16 is lisppaste down still? 18:43:17 how did you do those diagrams? 18:43:32 <_roman> I use OpenOffice :))) 18:43:34 ehu: FWIW, i just spent some time watching 'top' on cl-net, and whatever you did is working quite well... i thought i was on my laptop and it took a while before i saw a python process pop up and convince me otherwise :) 18:43:56 Oh an SBCL compiler book, very nice _roman 18:44:05 <_roman> thanks 18:44:22 drewc: good :-) 18:44:24 _roman: first thing to suggest is to read the PRINCIPLES file 18:44:29 heh, gotcha 18:44:45 drewc: killing most of lisppaste probably increased cl-net preformance too. 18:44:55 *ehu* regrets but understands that 18:45:08 so, we're really done for a while. 18:45:26 drewc: I'm actually writing that stats-generator as we speak. 18:45:37 Is bad form to have an accessor have too many side effects. 18:45:44 Is/Is it 18:45:46 <_roman> Krystof: Yep, but I just put them to Launchpad. And they stay there as for now. 18:46:06 Guthur: I'd say yes to that 18:46:10 Guthur: s/an accessor// and yes 18:46:41 -!- iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:43 <_roman> Krystof: What should I do to to get them committed? 18:46:47 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:46:51 (that is to say, avoid side effects in general is not a bad piece of advice) 18:47:18 iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has joined #lisp 18:47:25 drewc, hehe, Took me a moment to catch on there 18:47:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 _roman: convince people that it's less work to commit them than to ignore them, unfortunately 18:52:51 it is my hope that my sbcl time increases from about now for the next few months 18:53:00 Do "we" have access to a sparc/solaris box for testing? 18:53:19 given that I've been spending about 2 hours a month on it for the last six months, that still doesn't amount to a huge heap of time 18:53:46 <_roman> Krystof: I can't jump and say 'Here is my brilliant patch' :) I thought that SBCL community appreciates patches from newbies better :) 18:54:13 It's more that the SBCL community got distracted by real life... Or maybe burnout in some cases. 18:54:43 <_roman> Krystof: but it is good to know that you will be working on SBCL more :) 18:55:29 I'm hoping to get about half of the top 15 bugs in the tracker either closed or reduced to medium importance, and better analysis and proposed fixes on the rest. 18:55:36 _roman: I suffered from simultaneous overwork and burnout; even now I work on things that I find "fun" rather than patch hoovering 18:56:28 -!- pnq [asdf@172.131.236.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:39 I still think that twelve commits is a new low for an SBCL release. 18:56:58 <_roman> Krystof: It is okay, I do not have any personal questions. Just asking the newbie question:) 18:58:01 <_roman> Also - how to know what other community members are doing? To avoid features overlap? Is there some process? 18:59:07 We usually just chat in here or on sbcl-devel about what we're doing, and tend to push to public source repositories (many people have git repositories out there). 18:59:19 ITA do not employ SBCL hackers? I mean to hack on SBCL specifically? 18:59:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-40.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:59:53 <_roman> I have some time to work on SBCL, but I depend on maintainers finally, because I have no commit rights 19:00:09 <_roman> How long it takes to get those? 19:00:15 I spent a good chunk of the past month and a half concentrating on getting the PPC backend up to scratch, for example, and have taken an interest in the test suite. 19:00:27 hypno: no. They used to hire some consultants, but they ran out of customer money 19:00:33 Commit access varies, really. 19:00:54 Krystof: Oh. I see. :( 19:01:09 _roman: in an ideal world, what happens is that your patches go through review, so that you learn the ineffable "taste" of sbcl developers 19:01:32 then, when the review cycle basically shortens because you're submitting good enough patches to start with, you get commit access 19:01:52 I appreciate that since review isn't really happening in a timely way at the moment, this seems like a pipe dream 19:02:04 ejs1 [~eugen@103-168-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:38 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:03:30 <_roman> Krystof: Clear. Okay, in this case I will continue to put the patches in Launchpad. 19:03:35 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:04:06 one thing: when you're satisfied with a patch, please add the `patch' tag to the bug 19:04:28 <_roman> I mark them as release candidates 19:04:32 then at least it's easy for committers to find candidate patches for reviewing 19:04:48 _roman: ok, but I don't even know what that means :) 19:05:27 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:05:35 <_roman> This is launchpad feature. All maintainers are notified about the release candidate patch by mail, I guess 19:06:01 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:08 Hey, I've got a question. Should we put some sort of tag in the bug summary indicating which targets (cpu/os) the bug affects? 19:07:31 <_roman> most of bugs are any-os and any-cpu 19:07:32 nyef: sure, why not 19:07:52 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-10-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:07:53 <_roman> but there are already some tags like os-windows 19:07:57 I'm thinking to just do a few to start with, like the top fifteen. 19:07:59 or rather, think of them as hints as to where the bug is, just like "streams" 19:08:07 _roman: You don't see that on the bug list, though. 19:08:35 <_roman> Yep, you are right 19:09:42 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 marioxcc [~user@201.132.50.1] has joined #lisp 19:11:18 -!- iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has quit [Quit: iley] 19:11:37 nyef: doesn't launchpad do queries? 19:11:39 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 19:11:48 (to take into account os/arch) 19:12:16 ehu: Doesn't help when you want to look at a quick breakdown of the high and critical importance bugs by target. 19:12:37 ah. ok. true. 19:15:33 oh, the bug summary 19:15:38 hm 19:15:44 dunno 19:16:09 don't mind, really 19:16:09 <_roman> How to find out a free nick in IRC? I see that _roman is already registered. How to check for others? 19:16:37 Ask nickserv? 19:16:42 <_roman> yep 19:16:45 <_roman> but how 19:16:55 <_roman> I am newbie in IRC 19:17:00 astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-52.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:17:19 I'd first /msg nickserv help, then see if there's a useful command to obtain information about a registered nick. The error result from that should do the trick. 19:17:23 _roman: keep changing your nick until nickserv doesn't tell you that it's registered 19:17:38 Or leave the channel and cycle nicks until you don't get a warning about it being registered, yes. 19:18:07 <_roman> okay, I will try 19:18:13 -!- _roman [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:45 _rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 19:20:01 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:20:11 -!- chrismay [~user@d83-176-152-146.cust.tele2.de] has left #lisp 19:20:14 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:23 <_rmarynch> Got success with this one 19:21:35 -!- ejs1 [~eugen@103-168-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:22:09 _rmarynch: you could drop the leading #\_ 19:22:33 -!- _rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:48 rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 rmarynch: you know about the /nick command? 19:23:56 no, I use IRC first time in my life today 19:24:20 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:27 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 19:24:38 rmarynch: it does what you wanted to do: switch nicks 19:24:56 Thanks, I will now know 19:25:05 edev [~user@adsl-99-23-150-121.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:42 The last question for today: how do you think, does the book help to extend the SBCL developers community? I have near 1000 unique visits per month, but I do not see new developers' patches in Launchpad 19:27:22 This makes me think that the effort are unsuccessful 19:28:12 I think that we'll find the book is of more use in helping new developers to work on the compiler than in bringing new developers in in the first place. 19:28:34 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:47 And I could use my time better to make fixes myself instead of trying to attract others? 19:29:03 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:04 Not at all. 19:29:17 The compiler is badly underdocumented right now. 19:29:48 But where they are? There are many easy issues, but I do not see newbies trying to fix them 19:29:53 rmarynch: every effort to extend documentation is a good one, if it documents stuff that's not documented before. 19:30:03 I myself am okay at dealing with stuff post-IR2-conversion, but before that point I find things to be more than a little hazy. 19:30:07 rmarynch: that takes time. 19:30:51 rmarynch: i think what you have created so far is of great value, and i hope you will continue regardless of the number of patches you can directly attribute to your effort. 19:30:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:59 As far as easy issues goes, we're probably not doing enough organization and outreach. 19:31:05 maybe, let us give it a try longer. As I have said once, even a single new developer will be a win:) 19:32:23 BTW, why some Lisp developers do not like Linkedin? We have the SBCL group here gathering some statistics, but there are only 20 members now 19:32:58 rmarynch: there are a lot of aspects to recruiting new developers; one of them (very important) is comprehensive documentation 19:33:30 I agree. I suffer from bad SBCL documentation level myself :) 19:33:32 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 19:34:26 linkedin... that's the facebook for people who are looking for work or looking to hire, innit? like facebook, only 'enterprise' :) 19:35:04 rmarynch: I've been reading your stuff with interest. I think it's valuable. 19:35:44 ehu: maybe... but I know some useful groups there, like CompilerExperts :) And they do not bother to much with hiring 19:35:56 Fade: thanks :) 19:37:01 that message marked :ehu was really for :drewc, sorry 19:38:45 np 19:39:40 And one more fantastic question: is that hard to find PhD student positin 19:39:55 ..on for SBCL research 19:40:05 I have some ideas 19:40:43 but they are too long to implement unless a person is PhD student 19:40:44 rmarynch: I don't know any, but that doesn't mean anything. 19:41:21 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:09 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:24 that was a horrible call... that tackle was all ball! 19:43:30 wrong window, sorry 19:44:43 ehu: I agree:) Just curious to know about European science. In Ukraine it is impossible - our professors rarely use Lisp 19:44:53 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:54 drewc: Are you saying the call was a total balls-up? 19:45:22 rmarynch: beach is involved in compsci instruction in France and he is definitely a lisper. 19:45:34 rmarynch: AFAIK, PhD can choose the programming language they want, as long as their thesis is not about a specific programming language. 19:46:31 rmarynch: eg. if your thesis was about quantum computers, you could use sbcl and implement a parallel sbcl as a simulator for QC. 19:46:39 I want to extend SBCL with Fermi architecture support as a PhD thesis. This is why I need this position to be Lisp-related 19:46:44 Use your imagination. 19:47:43 but I am not sure about the demand of this architecture support 19:48:12 rmarynch: your thesis could be about anything. Almost anything would need or use a lot computing power... 19:48:16 Hi, all. Quick question from a fairly new-to-Lisp developer: If I want to download all files related to a web page (to analyze certain aspects and aid in cleaning up older markup), do I need to use something like cURL or is there a built-in way to handle file transfers over the Web? 19:48:40 nyef: :D 19:48:50 minion: tell edev about drakmo 19:48:51 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``drakmo''. 19:48:56 minion: drakma? 19:48:57 drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp web client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 19:48:59 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2014CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:49:23 ++drakma 19:49:39 drewc: thank you :) 19:50:40 rmarynch, what scientific challenge would such architectural support solve? 19:51:40 pjb: strangely enough, the only quantum computer i've ever been near uses common lisp :) 19:51:49 parallel computation on home PC :) It may be about parallel Lisp compilers or something similar 19:52:01 drewc: which computer is that? 19:52:22 rmarynch, sounds like an engineering problem. 19:52:47 Fade: http://www.dwavesys.com/ <--- this one 19:53:14 nus: yep, but I hope that some 'pure science' results may arise in scope of the compiler adaptation 19:53:34 have you actually seen that thing in action? 19:53:35 rmarynch, besides, much of parallel lisp research was done in 80's. 19:53:47 i've been watching dwave, but didn't know there was a lisp tie-in. 19:54:09 Fade: whether or not it's a true quantum computer is open to debate, but they build an analog model of a digital computer using quantum states 19:54:19 aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:30 what do they use lisp for? 19:54:31 Fade: i have yeah, we were at a big launch of theirs a few years ago 19:55:10 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-165-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 to write software for the computer, of course! :) 19:55:25 what compiler are they using? 19:55:40 nus: okay, I also find this to be more engineering than scientific problem. Maybe I should give up on this 19:56:15 ACL last i checked, with some SBCL as well on linux. The compiler is relatively portable AFAIK 19:56:24 neat 19:57:57 rmarynch: I am in a position to be able to supervise PhD research 19:58:08 funding, though, that's the trouble 19:58:42 Can I stay in Ukraine and come only to show the results from time to time? 19:58:52 it wouldn't be ideal 19:58:59 Yep 20:00:10 How much it costs to study in your university as PhD student (approx) ? 20:00:19 non-EU fees? Ugh, lots 20:00:34 ~EUR10k/year 20:01:02 I wouldn't pay that 20:01:13 maybe I should write grant applications 20:01:19 What would it take to qualify for EU fees (or UK fees)? 20:01:24 yep, I should work a bit longer to collect the money :) Sure, I do not ask you 20:01:42 nyef, citizenship? 20:01:48 nyef: EU and UK fees are the same; what you need is, roughly, citizenship of any EU nation 20:02:04 that would bring it down to EUR4k/year 20:02:10 Nice. 20:02:14 Ukraine is not a EU member 20:02:16 though London is still stupidly expensive to live in 20:02:34 -!- WePaac [~bubble@p54AA76A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 20:02:40 *Krystof* drums his fingers 20:03:00 Actually, I had another question, which was on IP rights of anything developed by someone in a graduate degree program. 20:03:02 maybe some of these ludicrously successful lisp shops should be finding lisp development PhDs :-/ 20:03:23 nyef: my university is fortunately either generous or incompetent in terms of IP management 20:03:44 Ah, so it varies by institution, quite widely? 20:03:54 I think that there are enough applicants from EU, so now way here 20:04:09 nyef: granting councils here don't look nicely at institutions that try to grab too much rights on the work of graduate students. 20:04:11 in general, at least in the UK, there isn't sufficient control to be able to police what academics do 20:04:14 there's still ludicrously successful lisp shops around? 20:04:23 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B201E07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:27 hasn't Google bought ITA yet, jsnell? 20:04:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:04:52 rmarynch: there aren't enough _good_ applicants from the EU, though 20:05:26 not that I know. but if they're even in the market now it doesn't sound particularly good 20:05:44 *Krystof* does grep implementation-defined dpANS2/*, ponders whether this is a good way to spend time 20:06:21 Okay, I can develop SBCL without PhD position :) It was just curious to know the current situation 20:07:05 rmarynch: you could try contacting Streamtech.nl 20:07:19 What is that? 20:07:23 rmarynch: they have temporary positions developing on/with sbcl 20:07:29 rmarynch: it's a webshop 20:07:40 we're a moderately succussful lisp shop.... but being a not-for-profit, are not in much of a position to fund anything beyond ourselves. 20:07:47 success* 20:08:07 I don't see how SBCL would help in an academic project targetting GPUs. 20:08:50 hocwp [~user@AAmiens-156-1-4-15.w90-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:09:02 ehu: I guess they require relocation 20:09:41 pkhuong: that's OK; when the initial project is complete after about a week, we can do something interesting for the rest of the PhD :-) 20:09:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:10:27 pkhuong: This targeting was planned to be the academic project itself, but it has just failed miserably when I was told that it had been done during 1980-198x 20:10:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:39 :) 20:13:28 okay, I will now disconnect. Thank you all for the good conversation, IRC is awesome. Have a good rest of the weekend :) 20:13:43 rmarynch: You as well. 20:13:56 rmarynch, mind you, there might be (and most probably is) some low-hanging fruit in regurgitating the ideas wrt GPUs and, specifically Fermi architecture. In fact, Guy Steele is doing pretty much that with Fortress. 20:14:44 I will take that into account, thanks 20:15:28 -!- rmarynch [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 20:20:15 maden [~maden@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 20:20:16 hi ! 20:20:30 i just got back from MIT museum in cambridge 20:20:34 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:20:36 minion: memo for rmarynch: You might want to look through efforts of Haskell community, where there are few libraries that integrate GPGPU computing into language 20:20:37 Remembered. I'll tell rmarynch when he/she/it next speaks. 20:20:40 took a great look at the lisp machine there :o 20:22:03 maden, did it look back on you?-) 20:22:29 i hope so :') 20:29:17 -!- stipet`` [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:29:32 got mod-lisp up 20:29:33 heh 20:29:38 atgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:54 atgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:07 and i'm testing cl-who's examples 20:30:11 great 20:30:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:30:37 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:31:41 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:37 -!- atgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 20:33:40 -!- atgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:41 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 20:34:58 Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has joined #lisp 20:36:23 someone is still using mod_lisp? 20:36:57 jep, that for apache2 20:37:09 the newer one 20:37:49 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 mod_lisp is pretty old school. 20:38:08 what's the alternative ? 20:38:08 heh 20:38:27 Hunchentoot FTW 20:38:35 sepult: a lisp program that speaks HTTP directly 20:38:35 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@124.125.181.135] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:59 araneida ? 20:39:03 I thought everyone used a lisp webserver and reverse proxy, optionally fastcgi 20:39:04 hunchentoot ? 20:39:14 i've had good success with mod_proxy and hunchentoot. but i suppose either one will do. 20:39:36 minion: tell sepult about hunchentoot 20:39:37 sepult: direct your attention towards hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 20:39:45 sepult: hunchentoot. DWIM and UCW have their own, and there's also tpd2 20:40:09 I'm not affiliated in any way, I just use it, seems ok. 20:40:43 fusss is a happy user of FastCGI 20:40:44 ok, but i didn't want to have another server on my system, as i have already many here, and the sytem load is 20:40:44 really fucking up when i do enable so many 20:41:10 so the apache backend is ok for my learning purposes so far 20:41:20 later on maybe 20:41:52 sepult: you want hunchentoot 20:42:16 _ mod_proxy 20:42:19 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 20:42:21 mono-xsp, dwww, caudium, apache2, ... etc.... 20:42:25 sorry + mod_proxy 20:42:30 you'll get little to no help with mod_lisp, i think 20:42:42 oh why's that ? 20:42:48 too old ?= 20:42:58 and little used nowadays 20:43:00 sepult: mod_lisp uses a server too: it wants an external lisp process which offers a socket connection. 20:43:11 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-63-205-38.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:15 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:27 the point is that nobody uses it, heh. mod_proxy, apache2 and hunchentoot is the current trend i think. or at least you are not completely alone. 20:43:32 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 20:44:44 ok 20:45:08 and, that's not your bottleneck. 20:45:16 so a silly place to prematurely optimise 20:45:19 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:38 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 20:48:45 horze [~kim@c-312672d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:58 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:52:57 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:55:48 maden0 [~maden@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 20:58:43 -!- maden [~maden@209.117.47.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:57 -!- jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:22 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 21:03:23 -!- horze [~kim@c-312672d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: zzz zzz zzz...] 21:03:40 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:06:04 pnq [asdf@AC83ECC1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:56 clhs #R 21:08:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhj.htm 21:09:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:37 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 21:12:47 -!- c|mell [~cmell@62.242.28.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:14 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:31 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:18:36 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:05 whats the lisp game develop,ment channel again? 21:19:53 orm: #lispgames 21:20:10 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:51 hi, say I have (list "foo" "bar" '&key 'some-key) and (list 'foo 'bar :some-key 'baz), is there a nice way to ask if the passed arguments (second list) are approprate for the first list if if was acting as a defined function's arguments? 21:21:55 not sure how to phrase that 21:22:57 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:44 wth, lispcast hangs 21:27:42 rcv-srv02.onplay.tubemogul.com ? 21:27:48 err inplay 21:28:13 oh ok it's blip.tv 21:28:18 egn: (defun test-param-argum (param argum) (apply (compile nil `(lambda ,param t)) argum)) 21:28:55 egn: So with your example (test-param-argum (list "foo" "bar" '&key 'some-key) (list 'foo 'bar :some-key 'baz)) --> PROGRAM-ERROR 21:30:17 egn: you may write: (defun test-param-argum (param argum) (ignore-errors (apply (compile nil `(lambda ,param t)) argum))) if you just want a boolean. (The error is then returned as second value). 21:30:59 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-60-111.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:31:10 pjb: beautiful, thanks. s/"foo" "bar"/'foo 'bar/ is what I was getting at 21:31:26 pjb: but yeah, that'll work great 21:33:01 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-10-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:11 why does the player has to cache it all to start playing ? 21:35:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:02 -!- edev [~user@adsl-99-23-150-121.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:13 -!- marienz is now known as sabbie 21:37:26 -!- sabbie is now known as marienz 21:40:13 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-165-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:25 -!- maden0 [~maden@209.117.47.253] has quit [] 21:45:05 all the player does is ever calculate but not play, even after caching it all 21:45:13 lol 21:45:22 oh man what a flaw! 21:46:21 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:46:35 hahaha 21:46:44 lol 21:46:45 that's great. 21:48:28 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:03 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:55 pjb: what's wrong with destructuring-bind? 22:02:43 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:01 I've often heard that CL's package system is absolutely horrible. Why? And what would a better package or module system for Lisp look like? 22:03:39 Do you mean the package system that isn't a package system, or the package system that doesn't exist? 22:03:48 quotemstr: a lot of times, when people talk about CL's package system, they mean the build system. 22:04:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:15 CL probably has a slightly better build/distribution system than TCL 22:04:17 so they'll be talking about asdf as the 'package' system, or they'll even talk about asdf-install or clbuild as the 'package' system. 22:04:20 I mean the functionality in which each symbol is associated with a group of some sort, and the reader disambiguates the group based on some context and an optional prefix ending with a colon. :-P 22:04:43 quotemstr: right. I figure you know what it is, but some people confuse these. 22:04:54 I figure it might be useful to have packages in my Lisp, but I don't want to copy CL if what CL does is horrid. 22:04:54 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:18 that said, I find CL's packages to be a little difficult to build very modular systems with. 22:06:11 they're not hierarchical, for example. I've also seen complaints about the fact that it resolves things at read time. 22:06:28 How else would you do it? 22:06:48 Lazily-resolved symbols? That sounds worse. 22:06:48 I like the approach pylang and haskell take, personally. 22:06:58 oh, you mean resolution. 22:07:08 There's lexicons. I'm not sure how I feel about lexicons, though. 22:08:41 quotemstr: http://rondam.blogspot.com/2010/02/new-and-improved-lexicons-now-50-lexier.html 22:08:47 there's some other posts in there about lexicons. 22:08:55 I'll take a look. 22:09:15 but yeah -- I would really like to have hierarchical packages right about now. 22:09:19 sykopomp: Pylang? 22:09:24 Makoryu: Python, the Language. 22:09:25 \fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi 22:09:25 \fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi\fi} 22:09:31 sykopomp: Just making sure :p 22:09:40 There's a Scheme variant named Pylang 22:09:45 oh geez. 22:09:45 and I thought that old joke about the last n lines of sekrit nasa code was... not funny 22:10:47 "This version only works on Clozure Common Lisp because it relies on some compiler hacks to intercept the compilation of undefined functions and global variables." 22:10:50 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 does anyone here have both a currentish sbcl manual in PDF format, and taste 22:15:16 -!- hocwp [~user@AAmiens-156-1-4-15.w90-7.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:15:43 *Xach* is 0 for 2 22:15:59 Xach: do you use the sbcl manual at all? 22:17:51 Krystof: under most circumstances i don't think i have the tools to build it. or if i do, i don't do whatever extra step is needed to build it. 22:18:26 I've grown so used to the "no file named doc/something/*.pdf" message at install time (or whatever it is) 22:18:34 Krystof: i do use it sometimes via l1sp.org 22:19:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:18 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:00 ok, well, the taste bit comes in looking at http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/sbcl-before.pdf and http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/sbcl-after.pdf 22:21:21 and in particular at "dictionary entries" and the indexes 22:22:06 I think it's relatively clear that the indexes in -after are more useful; the question is whether the formatting is tasteful enough, or whether you can enviseage improvements 22:22:09 if any of you use hunchentoot -- how do you usually structure your templates + your backend logic + your handlers? 22:22:17 as far as code organization goes? 22:22:47 and whether the change in the formatting of dictionary entries (e.g. the one for sb-ext:quit in chapter 3) is too horrible 22:23:42 I've got a src/ directory with all the backend logic, and I'm thinking of having templates/ and handlers/, and have one file for each handler/page, with some way to figure out "okay, so, the template for handlers/foo.lisp is templates/foo.lisp" 22:23:47 or is there a nicer way to do it? 22:24:11 err, templates/foo.tmp 22:24:13 or whatever. 22:27:55 xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 22:29:15 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 22:30:23 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:30:25 *Xach* hasn't found a scheme he likes a lot yet 22:32:31 Xach: is there one in particular you use a lot, though? 22:32:47 or maybe one worth considering, or something. 22:32:51 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 22:33:07 sykopomp, the extension .tmp sounds very much like temporary 22:33:15 But I suppose you will know anyway 22:33:32 Guthur: yeah, I might just name it .html or .tmpl 22:34:09 hi, is there a way to flush when one prints with format. Something like "(format err "error)" 22:34:30 clhs force-output 22:34:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 22:34:52 thanks :) 22:34:55 sykopomp, Have you checked out the create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler 22:34:58 or finish-output 22:35:00 <_< 22:35:10 Guthur: no, is that in HT? 22:35:17 sykopomp, Yep 22:35:20 ooo 22:35:45 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:47 I use it to group stuff on a per folder basis 22:35:50 sykopomp: if i'm making a new graphics toy called wibbletron, i'll make a web-ignorant graphcics generator in a package called wibbletron, and then make a web-aware wibbletron-interface package with a pages.lisp or interface.lisp that defines the handlers and url paths for them. 22:36:17 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:36:17 most of the toy have fewer than 3 pages involved for them 22:36:22 ah 22:36:31 Xach: so you don't bother with separate templates, either? 22:36:55 -!- pnq [asdf@AC83ECC1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:57 sykopomp: i do split out the templates into their own directory. 22:37:20 sykopomp: they're found semiautomatically based on the url...all templates for http://wigflip.com/foo/ are in /opt/wigflip/templates/foo/... 22:37:30 although they don't always map up 1:1 from url to template 22:37:37 hm 22:37:40 (no good reason for that that i can think of) 22:37:55 sykopomp: One other helper you might like to check out is create-prefix-dispatcher 22:38:14 *Xach* has never used the built-in dispatcher-creation functions 22:38:16 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-91.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:38:42 They are handy enough 22:39:05 You might want to get more hands-on if you want to streamline it 22:39:22 Xach: do you keep a config file around with global values to find the root dir, etc? 22:39:35 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:42 tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.22] has joined #lisp 22:41:22 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-52.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:42:23 sykopomp: no. 22:42:28 sykopomp: but not for any good reason. 22:44:30 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDAA056.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:42 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:49:33 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52:00 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:54:12 Why would you ever use gentemp instead of gensym? 22:57:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:55 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:55 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B201E07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:36 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDAA056.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:04:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:04:49 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:05:16 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 23:05:16 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 23:05:16 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 23:08:31 Say I have a macro DEF-FOO. 23:08:45 It's supposed to save some state for other macros to inspect later, and does this by adding a symbol property. 23:09:09 Should be macro *itself* add that symbol property and return nil, or should it return an *expansion* that then adds the symbol property? 23:09:20 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:15:20 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:18:06 hi, does anyone have example code to format a shell color escape sequence? 23:18:28 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 23:19:45 <_3b`> quotemstr: side effects should generally happen in the expansion of macros, rather than in the macro itself 23:20:20 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81a20d.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:21:43 TeMPOraL [~user@users.v-lo.krakow.pl] has joined #lisp 23:24:39 <_3b`> quotemstr: and in this case, you probably want your side effect to happen at load time in addition to compile time, so it can't be handled entirely in the macro anyway 23:24:52 Fair enough. Thanks. 23:26:43 <_3b`> aside from that problem, you wouldn't want things being defined just because someone macroexpanded it, and compilers are allowed to expand macros multiple times 23:26:45 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:03 So you'd have to make any macro side-effects idempotent anyway. 23:41:10 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.139.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:42:03 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:43:23 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:43:23 Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hir.is] has joined #lisp 23:43:37 <_3b`> fe[nl]ix: does anything remove fd handlers from an event-base aside from remove-fd-handlers? (errors or eof maybe?) 23:44:43 <_3b`> fe[nl]ix: or is there some exported way to check for active fd handlers before trying to remove them, to avoid the "Trying to remove a non-monitored FD." error? 23:44:54 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-146-3.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:06 c|mell [~cmell@62.242.28.53] has joined #lisp 23:45:18 _3b`: where are your libraries? 23:46:00 <_3b`> Xach: that i work on you mean? on github 23:46:30 <_3b`> http://github.com/3b 23:50:12 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:17 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:27 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 23:53:54 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-63-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:56:13 zeugma [~user@76.85.179.51] has joined #lisp 23:56:18 -!- zeugma [~user@76.85.179.51] has left #lisp