00:00:18 19 million? you cataloging stars? ;) 00:00:34 <_3b`> nope, stress testing my server 00:00:43 ah 00:01:01 <_3b`> (50 clients, sending 2k messages, each broadcast to all clients) 00:01:19 Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:43 <_3b`> at least theoretically... not sure they all get there :p 00:02:13 *_3b`* wonders if i didn't fix sb-concurrency:queue properly, or just didn't fix it enough 00:02:56 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:17 <_3b`> ah, maybe i just hadn't disconnected the clients yet :p 00:04:03 <_3b`> that would explain things 00:04:31 -!- Paraselene [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:05:00 *_3b`* needs to add in something to stop trying to send to clients that aren't reading fast enough 00:05:55 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined 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[~hefner@ppp-58-9-110-200.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:34:54 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-110-200.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 00:36:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:20 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BC38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:37 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:43:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.106.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:49:39 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:15 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:43 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:53:16 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:57:45 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:58:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:41 Why do I see only /ftp.gnu.org:/pub/gnu/libffcall/{NEWS,README}{,.sig} and nothing else 01:01:47 <_3b`> README has URLs for tarballs 01:02:15 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 01:02:53 jlf`` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 01:03:02 Heh, Men In Black trying to discourage its use 01:03:07 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 <_3b`> apparently out of date though, see http://www.gnu.org/software/libffcall/ 01:05:38 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.64] has joined #lisp 01:09:27 only errors with $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/sources/libffcall co libffcall 01:10:22 this is exactly why most hackers prefer perl, python or even php 01:11:08 you don't have to sacrifice a goat a midnight just to get a current library 01:12:07 don't even get me started on lisp-in-a-box-well-sorta-but-not-really 01:13:19 I'll get Brad Parker's emulator and switch to Genera 01:13:22 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:32 whiny. 01:13:35 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 turns out it works to $ cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sv.gnu.org:/sources/libffcall co . 01:16:05 -!- jlf`` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:06 I found that x86-64 VLM to be kind of crashy, so you might not be any happier. 01:16:13 plage [~user@118.68.253.6] has joined #lisp 01:16:18 Good morning! 01:16:28 bon soir 01:20:29 -!- plage [~user@118.68.253.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:41 I don't mind if it crashes I'll run it under gdb and twist its arm until it works 01:21:58 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.101.126.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:22:39 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:45 early hardware CADRs were pretty crashy too 01:23:45 \hakl [~user@203.81-167-92.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:36 given how snap4 came to life, how can it *not* be crashy? 01:26:51 *p_l* haven't managed to run it for a year now, due to incompatible X11 01:27:08 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 01:28:49 pnq [asdf@AC810AC5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:21 If they were ever to release the VLM sources, it would be big fun to do an emulator using x86-64 assembly. 01:32:18 *rme* has strange ideas of fun 01:32:44 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-110-200.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:17 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-110-200.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:34:20 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-80-143.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:41 rme: try making an Ivory cpu in FPGA :-) 01:34:56 ri4a [~ri4a@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has joined #lisp 01:41:23 neoesque [~neoesque@114-47-21-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-254-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:06 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-59-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:59 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:52 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-110-200.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Arrrr!] 01:47:11 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 01:47:28 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:50:33 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:52:12 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 02:52:29 Is there a way to test for a true list? 02:52:58 <_3b`> define 'true list'? 02:53:13 proper list? 02:53:18 _3b`: ending in nil I suppose, i.e. non doted 02:53:23 <_3b`> if you mean proper list, i think alexandria has one 02:53:27 ty 02:53:55 (btw, "true list" is used in the CMU documentation) 02:54:07 (null (cdr (last list))) 02:54:30 doesn't cut cyclic lists 02:54:43 stassats: thanks, should work 02:55:07 <_3b`> yeah, alexandria:proper-list-p tests for both, so might be more than you need 02:55:40 (ignore-errors (list-length '(1 2 3 4 5))) 02:56:15 _3b`: it does what I need, thanks. This projecxt already depends on alexandria 02:56:28 stassats: I'll add that one to my list of helpful snippets, thanks 02:56:50 i wouldn't consider it much helpful, though 02:57:13 stassats: it works well enough for most of my purposes 02:57:40 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:56 balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.194] has joined #lisp 02:58:00 ignore-errors usually brings more pain 02:58:19 (handler-case (list-length '(1 2 3 4 . 5)) (type-error ())) would be better 02:59:17 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:33 all in all, using alexandria is the best way 02:59:57 even if you don't want to depend on it, you can always copy a definition 02:59:59 -!- WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00:54 stassats: true 03:04:40 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@222-154-179-44.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:04:56 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.131.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:56 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 03:05:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-64-70.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:37 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:19 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:12:59 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:05 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.182.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:40 Devon: the issues with snap4 are related to its interactions with Xlibs 03:20:07 a manual assembly rewrite might make more sense 03:20:32 "don't bother" makes more sense 03:24:14 stassats: still, some stuff is nice to recovr (fonts! xD) 03:27:32 yeah, right, you need to dissassemble the VLM to get out the fonts. 03:30:47 -!- maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:15 nus: there are X11 fonts in distro package 03:35:31 p_l, that was a (futile) attempt at sarcasm. 03:37:45 -!- pnq [asdf@AC810AC5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:07 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:41:59 pnq [~asdf@AC810AC5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:49 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 03:44:37 felideon` [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:28 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:46:39 -!- pnq [~asdf@AC810AC5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48:10 -!- felideon` is now known as felideon 03:48:18 pnq [asdf@ACA3BFC0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit 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04:34:47 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:37:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:43 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:39:27 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:47:25 greetings lispniks 04:47:50 what is new in the world of casual hacking? 04:48:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has joined #lisp 04:48:15 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:57 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:22 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 05:00:19 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:06 -!- WOG 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has quit [] 05:55:55 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:59:50 nothing casual about profiling lisp code! 06:00:16 06:00:58 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:01:55 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:20 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:02:49 why's that? 06:05:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:06:47 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.32.65] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 06:08:04 toast-opt: just trying to figure out sb-sprof 06:08:36 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-48-235.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:08:40 why not just use slime-sprof? 06:09:21 because I just started learning lisp profiling a while ago 06:14:12 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:41 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:45 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:23:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:26:03 hello lispers 06:26:58 I'm building sbcl on mac os but I want to build a 32-bit binary 06:27:00 how can this be done? 06:30:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:30:30 some variable ARCH_something 06:31:39 ok 06:31:41 SBCL_ARCH=x86 06:32:21 thanks 06:35:00 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:38:42 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:56 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-123-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:40:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:10 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 06:42:17 lisppaste is being spammed 06:43:54 saintdev [~saint@unaffiliated/saintdev] has joined #lisp 06:44:07 does anyone here deal with the lisppaste bots? 06:45:16 we have someone spamming lisppaste in order to use the bot to spam #x264dev 06:46:40 as far as i know, those with some power over lisppaste aren't here right now 06:46:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:55 you can try contacting freenode staff 06:46:59 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 06:47:35 stassats: they can't do anything 06:47:43 the spammer isn't actually on IRC 06:47:48 pretty inventive, i must say. i've never seen someone use pastebin syndication bot to spam an irc channel before 06:47:53 fe[nl]ix: can't they ban lisppaste? 06:47:57 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:48:28 well the channel op could do that, once he gets back 06:48:40 but that won't exactly fix the problem 06:48:43 well, it spams all channels 06:48:50 just the symptom 06:49:03 see http://paste.lisp.org/list 06:49:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.171.15.243] has joined #lisp 06:49:37 lol 06:50:03 so it's not just us. 06:50:33 it doesn't seem to spam #lisp, very clever! 06:50:38 how come it's not spamming here as well? 06:51:01 so that nobody responsible will be alerted 06:51:18 who should i pm? 06:51:37 i understand they're probably afk at the moment 06:51:55 neither drewc, nor nyef are here atm 06:52:11 <_3b`> lisppaste hasn't been allowed to talk in here for a few days due to spam 06:52:16 ok, so they're not here at all 06:52:24 are we trying to get lisppaste to announce pastes again? 06:52:31 oh, so it's not clever after all 06:52:39 ahaha 06:52:45 <_3b`> leo2007: no, stop it from announcing in other channels :p 06:53:08 but it is even announcing in the right channels? 06:53:14 isn't* 06:53:25 it's busy announcing spam 06:53:26 does it matter, it's still spamming 06:53:30 <_3b`> yeah, they are pasting to all channels 06:53:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.171.15.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:53:40 <_3b`> up to 100 pages of spam on new pastes list 06:53:49 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 06:53:50 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 06:53:50 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 06:54:04 \o. 06:54:10 oops, lost an arm there 06:55:11 all better now, yipee 06:55:23 damn those kids 06:56:27 -!- saintdev [~saint@unaffiliated/saintdev] has left #lisp 06:57:11 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:57:31 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 06:58:00 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:35 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:21 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:59:39 I shutdown the lisppaste process. apparently it was being spammed via xml-rpc 07:08:28 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:03 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:12:24 z0r[a] [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:13:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oheqjvomyozyilwy] has joined #lisp 07:15:21 -!- n00p [~z0r@unaffiliated/n00p] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:20:02 -!- z0r[a] [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:20:02 z0r[a] [~z0r@unaffiliated/n00p] has joined #lisp 07:20:06 -!- z0r[a] is now known as n00p 07:26:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:27:25 -!- pnq [asdf@ACA3BFC0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:29:46 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152158062.a1.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:24 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:49 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42:32 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.182] has joined #lisp 07:44:54 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-48-235.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:46:56 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:47:35 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: to denmark] 07:48:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oheqjvomyozyilwy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:50:03 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-120.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 07:53:28 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 07:57:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:18 why is sbcl unable to open /dev/fd/0 on mac os x? 07:58:45 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:49 at first glance I thought it was a floppy drive path ;) 07:59:03 the reverse complement benchmark in the language shootout does this: 07:59:04 (with-open-file (in "/dev/fd/0" :element-type +ub+) 07:59:04 (with-open-file (out "/dev/fd/1" :element-type +ub+ :direction :output :if-e 07:59:04 xists :append) 08:01:21 leadnose_ [leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 08:06:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:19 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.145.98] has left #lisp 08:16:53 -!- n00p [~z0r@unaffiliated/n00p] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:57 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:26:19 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:26:40 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:27:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.165.218] has joined #lisp 08:27:45 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:46 Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.61.135] has joined #lisp 08:30:53 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-120.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 08:30:57 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:53 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:33:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ea5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:31 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-120.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:34:53 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:24 plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has joined #lisp 08:36:29 Good afternoon! 08:37:09 -!- RustyWheeler [~russell@60-241-37-219.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 08:37:19 hola plage 08:43:27 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:26 -!- Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:44:29 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:44:43 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-161-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:01 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:53:44 fe[nl]ix: I indeed saw another irc channel flooded by the lisppaste bot (advertizing a paste flood made via http) in the logs 08:54:16 perhaps the "captcha" would help if it was more random than "lisp" :) 08:55:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:58:03 -!- trebor_d` is now known as trebor_dki 08:58:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.165.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:23 -!- lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal 08:59:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rscydqlaovqaepeu] has joined #lisp 08:59:58 ejs [~eugen@229-66-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:02:06 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-44-47.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:45 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:06 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:03:42 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.61.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:04:16 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:04:29 -!- ejs [~eugen@229-66-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:56 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:23 Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.61.135] has joined #lisp 09:06:40 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:04 hm 09:10:50 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:11:20 does pcl have anything about error handling, and debugging? 09:12:23 -!- slava [~slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 09:13:01 viric: what are you looking for? 09:13:11 there's 09:13:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:13:22 I'm just starting in common lisp 09:13:27 "Beyond exception handling: Conditions and restarts" 09:13:31 And I'm trying to write a program useful for me 09:13:39 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 09:13:42 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.61.135] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 09:13:44 Ouch - how I could not notice that chapter :) 09:14:06 HG` [~HG@xdslam194.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 ok. I thought you were looking for something not in there. 09:14:33 restarts are powerful 09:14:56 i fix my computer by restarting! 09:16:13 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 09:16:24 hehe 09:16:30 I think that it would also help, if I could understand lisp debugging 09:17:33 is lisp debugging different at every interpreter/compiler? 09:17:41 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 09:19:08 slime smooths some corners 09:20:04 but often when I make an error, a repl comes in with questions and offering debug commands 09:20:20 maybe I'll find that trivial once I read more on exceptions, restarts, ... 09:20:21 yes. 09:20:47 it wants to know which restart to invoko 09:20:51 invoke 09:21:14 usually during debugging you only invoke "abort restart" and the fix your problem 09:21:46 what is your problem you should figure from reading the error message, inspecting stack trace, thinking hard, etc. 09:22:25 the debugger allows you to execute lisp statements 09:22:31 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:22:39 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 09:22:39 which allow you to inspect or change the state of your application. 09:23:24 and yes, it comes with experience 09:23:47 if you have enough restarts in your app, you can change the failing state to something more usefull and go to a restart to continue processing 09:24:59 in case it's expecting en error 09:25:19 most errors i encounter are unexpected 09:25:33 :) 09:25:56 well, that too, but also with unexpected errors 09:26:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rscydqlaovqaepeu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:26:24 by defining "the right" or "enough" restarts 09:26:56 usually i want to fix it, so the error never shows up anymore 09:28:21 but the error may be in data or in code, the former can be fixed with clever restarts 09:29:33 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:31:09 true. I don't have processing which runs for days, but if you do, clever restarts may be a good tool to get through your first test runs 09:33:31 *stassats* once made a restart which corrected a misspelled function name 09:33:46 n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:33:52 but it didn't modify the code, so it wasn't as useful 09:34:34 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:41:53 WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:53 -!- plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has left #lisp 09:47:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.165.218] has joined #lisp 09:47:13 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-59-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:23 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:49:07 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:08 -!- n00p [~z0r@219-90-233-159.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [] 09:49:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.165.218] has left #lisp 09:58:21 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 09:58:42 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:22 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:03:47 ejs [~eugen@229-66-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:27 -!- ejs [~eugen@229-66-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:04 you ever fart and it's just horrible? 10:09:23 so horrible you need to ask #lisp? 10:12:49 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sometimes, one wishes one could simply disappear :P] 10:15:38 coyo [~unf@99.6.151.42] has joined #lisp 10:23:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152158062.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:24:01 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:24:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:06 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has joined #lisp 10:40:36 some farts are horrible, some functions suck 10:41:16 wait? 10:45:09 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 10:45:09 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:49:13 -!- WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:57 horze [~kim@c-312672d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:53:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:08 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has joined #lisp 10:57:46 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:00:21 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:01:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C355.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:27 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:05:51 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has joined #lisp 11:10:08 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:01 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:37 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:12:22 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:26 MrWGW [~MrWGW@74.124.206.166] has joined #lisp 11:12:31 hey, is the lisp-paste guy aruond? 11:12:41 I had that bot in my channel but one of my ops inadvertantly kicked it 11:12:49 someone was abusing it to spam the channel and he kicked the bot by mistake... 11:14:30 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:14:55 it's down currently anyway 11:15:07 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:22 someone was abusing it horribly 11:15:43 some ubuntu fanwhore trying to get people to joint #ubuntu-women with a promise to flash 11:15:48 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-178-13-166.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:59 it was rather ... typical ... of rabid Ubuntu users I fear :-P 11:16:36 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-178-13-166.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 but still I liked lisppaste :( 11:17:48 sooner or later it will come back 11:17:53 stassats: perhaps a real captcha would've solved it? 11:18:10 madnificent: i guess it was done from xml-rpc 11:18:16 stassats: fwiw, cl-recaptcha is trivial to add :) 11:18:41 stassats: you can create pastes trough xml-rpc? 11:18:48 yes 11:19:00 and there is lisppaste.el, i use it all the time 11:19:45 stassats: that would likely to be harder to do when a real captcha is required :( 11:20:28 i guess limiting number pastes from one host would be a step in the right direction 11:20:56 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:18 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:43 stassats: proxy -> still over 100 requests 11:22:12 stassats: perhaps sending credentials when using xml-rpc? 11:22:13 don't overdo 11:25:32 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:06 \o/ win \o/ 11:26:27 where is the rest of the gang? 11:27:07 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:14 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:18 minion: welcome back! 11:29:19 thanks! 11:29:27 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 11:36:44 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 11:38:09 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:39:13 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:18 cddr [~user@5ac75e6a.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:41:41 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-161-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:31 Anyone else run into problems trying to load cxml on sbcl? http://paste.lisp.org/+2DL4 11:44:06 i can't 11:44:20 i mean, i don't 11:45:39 how do you load cxml? 11:45:46 i mean, what command do you use to load it 11:45:52 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cxml) 11:46:35 I always put the asd files in .sbcl/systems and use require :) 11:46:45 that looks like an ASDF2 error 11:47:10 looks like it doesn't evaluate :pathname option 11:47:48 so is that something *new* in more recent versions of ASDF? 11:48:29 i don't think so, cxml.asd was changed last time in 2008 11:48:55 and it works with asdf from the latest sbcl 11:49:15 cddr: do you use asdf from sbcl? 11:49:56 nope, some other package I was playing with a few months ago demanded a more recent asdf. Will try vanilla from sbcl 11:50:56 which package ? 11:52:58 sorry fe[nl]ix can't remember now, I think it was a dependency of hunchentoot 11:53:36 using sbcl's version of asdf worked 11:59:17 asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has joined #lisp 11:59:42 chris_osx [~chris_osx@p5492E20D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:08 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has left #lisp 12:03:08 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:47 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:56 billitch [~billitch@dslb-094-223-080-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:45 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:12:43 nipra [~nipra@115.117.143.101] has joined #lisp 12:13:10 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:47 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:15:50 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:08 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 12:16:54 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:19:45 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:20:54 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:22:34 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 -!- madbear [~dude@c83-253-60-155.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:23:57 asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has joined #lisp 12:24:07 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has quit [Client Quit] 12:24:30 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.195] has joined #lisp 12:28:44 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:33:25 WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:41 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:41 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has joined #lisp 12:43:19 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-134-199.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:23 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:38 Murdoc [~uhhh@host81-159-142-180.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:45 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-178-13-166.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:11 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-2-17.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:50 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-34-11.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:56:21 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host81-159-142-180.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:24 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:00:15 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-59-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:36 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.117.143.101] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-59-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-234.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:09:33 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:12 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-250.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:17:29 minion: memo for slava: I'll see if I can port the SIMD stuff post changes. That way you'll have a more interesting comparison on nbody ("Factor beats the other implementations on the nbody benchmark because it is able to make use of SIMD"), especially given how close SBCL is without any complex-as-simd trick. 13:17:29 Remembered. I'll tell slava when he/she/it next speaks. 13:20:06 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:43 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:21:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ea5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:10 maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:51 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:06 what should a conforming implementation do if you try to loop "across" nil? 13:36:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:49 cddr: My reading of 6.1.2.1.5 makes me think "signal an error" 13:40:29 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:39 so code using (loop for elem across array...) should make sure (if possible) that array is not nil? 13:41:49 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-254-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:42:02 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 13:42:09 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:33 cddr: nil isn't an array... 13:46:49 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:18 in reiterator i'll make sure (for ... in ...) will work on sequences and provide specialized clauses for the ones who care 13:49:03 now it's almost a whole 500 lines of code and properly handles nesting and lexenvs 13:50:19 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@222-154-179-44.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:55 pkhuong: thanks, just checking. Found a bug which was either in cxml or sbcl depending on the answer to this question. 13:53:12 Sent a patch to cxml-devel 13:54:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:01 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-36-34.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:22 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:04:10 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:10 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:10 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:12 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:06:21 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:10:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:12:01 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:19 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:12:21 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:26 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has left #lisp 14:13:59 gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:06 -!- maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:34 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-160-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:27 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:28:58 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:57 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:20 G'morning all. 14:35:15 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 hi nyef 14:36:47 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.73.232.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:37:52 nyef: lisppaste got spammed via xml-rpc earlier and I shut it down for a few hours 14:38:07 I think there are a few hundred pastes to delete 14:38:12 Oh, joy. 14:38:58 It's definitely long past time to work up a development/maintenance plan for the bots. 14:39:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:41:38 -!- gcv [~gcv@ool-457569c4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: gcv] 14:42:01 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:16 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:50:38 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:29 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:54:43 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.73.232.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 14:55:37 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:59:39 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:01:21 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:12 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2F28.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:07:14 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has joined #lisp 15:19:01 nyef: public rpo and tracker, maybe? 15:19:38 Most of the source is in public repos already, actually. 15:20:37 I know, but repo that would be directly related to the code that actually runs the bots - I can find bits and pieces of minion in cl-irc, but that's slightly disorganized 15:21:10 Yeah, it's running an old version of cl-irc with custom hacks layered on top. 15:22:16 minion: welcome back! 15:22:17 thanks! 15:22:34 bot! 15:22:36 I think that the two biggest wins right now would be something to automatically manage the bot connections and something to detect and kill paste-spam. 15:23:07 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 nyef: I wrote a wrapper around cl-irc which tries to detect dead connections and reconnects if it detects them. 15:23:57 nyef: I used it to run a bot. 15:24:00 Yeah, it's not rocket science. 15:24:06 iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:09 It's just that it hasn't been done for lisppaste yet. 15:24:15 I mean, I know how to go about it. 15:24:29 I meant to say: maybe you can use copy/paste. 15:24:46 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-180-83.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:49 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 it's here: http://hix.nu/svn-public/alexis/trunk/ 15:25:32 -!- WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:46 Honestly, I think these bots need their own code, since they're trying to run something like fifteen or more IRC connections from one lisp process. 15:27:19 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:15 -!- iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ea5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:32 plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has joined #lisp 15:29:36 Good evening! 15:29:38 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:30:44 nyef: I noticed that lisppaste keeps exiting from #lisp. any idea on what's happening ? 15:31:23 fe[nl]ix: Actually executing a /part, or just not being in the channel? 15:31:34 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 marioxcc [~user@200.77.73.145] has joined #lisp 15:31:49 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:34 nyef: I think it's a /part, but I'm not sure 15:32:35 minion: logs 15:32:36 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 15:32:38 Essentially, the bots have -no- connection management. If they get kicked from the channel or their connection to the server goes down, they don't know how to recover. 15:32:45 the bot code referenced above uses a separate connection manager for each connection; you could run many of them. 15:33:41 benny [~benny@i577A8876.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:14 nyef: (3484131206 :part "lisppaste" nil "~lisppaste@common-lisp.net") 15:34:21 nyef: from http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2010-05/lisp-2010.05.29.sexp 15:35:00 nyef: 20 minutes before you joined the channel 15:35:05 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, that was odd-seeming. Was anyone else at the console? 15:36:05 hmm 15:36:13 somebody executed (lisppaste:part-irc-channel "lisppaste" "#lisp") 15:37:15 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 15:38:27 So, no, it's not a behavior that's in their normal repertoire. 15:38:53 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:39:41 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-61-90-27-120.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39:48 yasuto [~yasuto@pon099-070.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:10 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:19 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.116.226] has joined #lisp 15:42:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:39 no big deal, but is it possible to get slime to speed up the "compilation cycle"? when i C-c C-c I get this "regexp ......." thingy 15:46:28 hypno: (setq font-lock-verbose nil) 15:46:52 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 15:47:58 pkhuong: ah, that is a bit better, thanks. :) 15:48:46 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:49:17 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-52-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:49 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-smlelnehqghtzsrl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:13 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:49 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-galyednfrhnbcgap] has joined #lisp 15:54:01 -!- yasuto [~yasuto@pon099-070.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:32 It occurred to me this morning that the 20-odd minute compile cycle for SBCL can't be good for maintaining flow state. 15:54:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.236.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:50 But I'm not sure what, if anything, there is to be done about it for a non-slammable change. 15:55:45 -!- balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:53 nyef: 20 minutes on what CPU ? 15:56:05 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 15:56:15 An N450 in my case. 15:56:59 Honestly, though, if you have enough time to get a cup of coffee, you have more than enough time to fall out of flow-state. 15:57:37 does porting really need flow? 15:59:33 I'm more thinking for information-gathering or solution-testing on a bughunt. 16:00:05 Actually, that reminds me, I should update arm-port-log. 16:02:20 ... and that's arm-port-log updated. 16:04:57 ehu: when i try to use cl-irc with the latest flexi-streams, i get an error. Symbol "FLEXI-STREAM-ENCODING-ERROR" not found in the FLEXI-STREAMS package. 16:04:58 nyef: linky? I lost mine 16:05:05 ehu: am I doing something wrong? 16:05:16 minion: arm-port-log? 16:05:16 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``arm-port-log''. 16:05:22 Hrm... That's odd. 16:05:31 ehu: http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/#external-format-encoding-error seems like it might be the new name. 16:05:51 Anyway, http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-arm/port-log.txt 16:06:27 (Yes, I did some hacking on it as recently as last monday before the BLM.) 16:07:57 *Xach* gets from svn instead 16:09:09 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@dslb-094-223-080-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:17:18 ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.32] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.87.158.171] has joined #lisp 16:20:54 ephcon [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has joined #lisp 16:21:16 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:30 Xach: cl-irc is using an old cl-irc version, right. 16:21:39 I'll need to do some work to update cl-irc again. 16:24:23 udzinari [~5ab49ed1@gateway/web/freenode/x-nbiftolhjawbkkxn] has joined #lisp 16:25:24 Xach: I don't think svn is better, is it? 16:27:55 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:00 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:12 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:52 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 16:43:46 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:15 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-180-83.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:22 nyef: what would you consider the minimal amount of OS support for SBCL image (no file i/o, no need to call mmap or anything like that, no threads, it's the only process etc.)? 16:48:24 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 The minimal amount of OS support for being able to run Lisp code? 16:49:23 Depends on how much hacking you're willing to do, really. 16:49:57 kind of - I'm thinking of running it basically without OS, with certain stuff "constant" (and basic console i/o as the only i/o) 16:50:13 Okay. The minimum support is to get the image into memory. 16:50:41 That's it. And you don't need to be able to get the entire image if you have control of the MMU and ability to load sectors from the disk. 16:51:35 p_l, why will you want to do that? 16:51:47 ehu: it is. 16:51:52 ehu: no reference to that symbol at all 16:52:28 *Xach* is working on some radically awesome stuff and is hyper-excited about it 16:52:58 segmond: porting to an architecture that yet lacks i/o and OS, but which has a working simulator 16:53:16 ... come to think of it, it would also work for IA-64 simulator 16:53:42 Okay, you'll also want synchronous interrupt traps, and possibly hardware interrupt handling. 16:54:07 p_l, porting which one? sbcl? :) why are you bothering with an architecture that lacks i/o and OS support? :) 16:54:47 derekv [~user@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:50 Xach: so no need to fix trunk? 16:55:05 ehu: it compiled & loaded fine for me. didn't test beyond that. 16:55:11 ship it! 16:55:17 ok. that should fix it then. 16:55:19 right. 16:56:55 *nyef* ported enough of SBCL to run some lisp code to bare-metal x86 once, before foundering on trying to split the system into paged and non-paged parts and figuring out how to build it up into a full system. 16:57:04 aw|rerun [~aw@f053084223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:32 -!- WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA3E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:42 segmond: so I have something to work with when I add PCI bridge and a kernel 17:02:12 assuming I won't just do I/O over few serial lines 17:02:40 WeedPac [~bubble@p54AA55DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslam194.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:28 Ugh. I think I just completely invalidated the design behind SBCL-os. :-/ 17:04:07 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.249.134] has joined #lisp 17:04:40 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-135-150-153.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:41 I either need three memory protection levels or multiple page-table swaps on every interrupt. 17:05:31 *p_l* points out that with Alpha or IA-64 port he will have a system that will allow SBCL in kernelspace... ;D 17:05:31 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:06 And we can't do that on x86 or PPC already? 17:06:36 nyef: In the sense that it's officially supported for an app to start in userspace then sink to kernel mode 17:06:42 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.73.145] has left #lisp 17:06:44 Hunh. 17:06:46 (in the OS sense) 17:07:10 How is that supported for alpha? 17:07:27 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.245.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:07:39 nyef: VMS :P 17:07:44 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:01 both VMS and AmigaOS support switching of apps into kernelspace 17:08:12 p_l: you mean "rise" to kernel mode, not sink :) 17:08:31 fe[nl]ix: I'd think "sink", as it's a lower-level kind of mode. 17:09:00 I'm not sure but I think in VMS you could even have a thread in different ring than other threads 17:09:19 Having apps, rise/sink to kernel space is a good way to have exploding kernels 17:12:13 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:47 Guthur: that's why you need to code defensively 17:14:11 nyef: what about L4/SBCL? no kernel work, and supports multiple nested VMs 17:14:29 p_l: Have at it if you want. 17:15:11 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:14 I am mostly not caring about LispOS kernels at this point. 17:16:27 Best cure for errand kernel space programs is prevention, ergo the micro kernel. 17:18:33 francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:19:23 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:56 hi, in a CL based sql how would one work with an IN statement? like "SELECT DISTINCT C.ID, C.Age FROM IDTable C WHERE C.ID IN (?)" (list "SMITH" "BROWN" "MURPHY") 17:21:58 what do you mean by CL based sql? 17:21:59 This doesn't quite work unless it is fed directly like SELECT DISTINCT C.ID, C.Age FROM IDTable C WHERE C.ID IN ('SMITH', 'BROWN', 'MURPHY') 17:22:16 leadnose_: I mean like cl-sql of plain-odbc 17:22:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:52 I am currently using plain-odbc 17:23:36 but would like to pass a cl list to the sql IN statement 17:24:18 if the statement is a string, maybe use format? 17:24:56 this also works but it's no good for me: "SELECT DISTINCT C.ID, C.Age FROM IDTable C WHERE C.ID IN (?,?,?)" "SMITH" "BROWN" "MURPHY" 17:25:52 leadnose_: I tried format like (format nil "~{~A~^ ,~}" (list "ID1" "ID2")) 17:27:36 francogrex: what's wrong with that? 17:28:17 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.55.53] has joined #lisp 17:28:33 ehu: it didn't work for the IN statement 17:29:15 maybe I should also try to pass the () in the format as well 17:30:08 francogrex: (format nil "SELECT DISTINCT C.ID, C.Age FROM IDTable C WHERE C.ID IN (~{'~A'~^,~});" doesn't work? 17:31:03 btw: why doesn't the thing work? 17:32:44 ehu, maybe I will try, I think your first suggestion can work. 17:33:14 the you mean place the IN statement outside the SQL proper? 17:34:16 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@f053084223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 17:34:39 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:34:50 ehu: I will try and get back to you (I need to disconnect first because the DB requires a secure VPN connection and will cut off my IRC) 17:35:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:36:19 -!- francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:37:46 -!- chris_osx [~chris_osx@p5492E20D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:37:54 minion memo for francogrex my first suggestion has one good reason not to use it: it's ill-advised by any security expert 17:38:05 minion memo for francogrex: my first suggestion has one good reason not to use it: it's ill-advised by any security expert 17:38:19 minion help memo 17:38:25 minion: help memo 17:38:25 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 17:38:37 minion: memo for francogrex: my first suggestion has one good reason not to use it: it's ill-advised by any security expert 17:38:38 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 17:39:54 maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 -!- segv [~mb@p54BE67DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:38 francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:45:18 ehu: your suggestion to have format nil around the SQL code works quite well. thanks a lot. 17:45:19 francogrex, memo from ehu: my first suggestion has one good reason not to use it: it's ill-advised by any security expert 17:45:32 ehu: oh! 17:45:39 why? 17:45:48 segv [~mb@p4FC1AB7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:31 but it works ok 17:48:36 -!- maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:25 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 ephcon_ [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has joined #lisp 17:58:17 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:06 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:25 ephcon_ [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has joined #lisp 18:04:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-52.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:07:36 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:44 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-71-158-167-23.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 josemanuel [~josemanue@247.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:09:17 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:12 -!- udzinari [~5ab49ed1@gateway/web/freenode/x-nbiftolhjawbkkxn] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:59 -!- francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:12:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:17 zeugma [~user@rrcs-173-198-144-190.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:28 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:49 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 18:16:53 anybody ever used factor or other concatenative langauges for anything interesting? 18:18:19 minion: memo for francogrex: because the values become part of an interpreted string. That's a security risk. 18:18:20 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 18:20:07 yeah... me neither 18:20:09 -!- zeugma [~user@rrcs-173-198-144-190.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:22:46 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:23:29 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 18:26:06 aw|rerun [~aw@f053084223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:41 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082B6CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:00 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-71-158-167-23.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 18:29:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:34:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:36:32 HG` [~HG@xdslea014.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:29 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-250.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:43:30 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@f053084223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 18:43:34 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:19 nyef: my interest in L4/SBCL is because there's an actual platform for that... especially on ARM 18:44:41 Fair enough. 18:46:23 mm.. do you feel that the right place to fuse arithmetic and array indexing is in IR1, IR2 or at the assembly level? 18:48:33 I'd be tempted to try and push it back to IR1. 18:48:56 I've got it working in IR1. 18:49:15 What are the costs and benefits of moving it to IR2, then? 18:49:26 Doing it in IR1 is ugly. 18:49:33 I'd imagine that the costs might include more VOPs to deal with, or more complicated VOPs. 18:49:38 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:50:47 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 18:52:06 right, and a custom ir2-converter to handle missing VOPs (e.g. I don't want to write a vop for generic-+/array-vector-ref-with-offset) 18:53:41 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:55:09 Mmm. It sometimes seems like there's at least two different ways that SBCL does everything in IR2. 18:56:17 And no real documentation about what's what, either. 18:56:18 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:59:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:49 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:00:53 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-240.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:44 iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has joined #lisp 19:04:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:54 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:25 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:02 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:32 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:23:07 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:26 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:23:51 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:01 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslea014.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:28:17 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:41 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:31:56 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 pnq [asdf@172.162.164.21] has joined #lisp 19:34:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:35:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.116.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:00 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:45:54 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 19:46:12 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-234.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.39, ABCL 0.20.0, Clozure CL 1.5 19:46:55 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:54:23 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:58:29 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:25 chandler [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 fe[nl]ix, nyef: Yes, I removed lisppaste from #lisp, along with nearly every other channel. 20:00:11 chandler: <3 lisppaste 20:00:22 chandler: The spam issue? 20:00:32 madnificent: That's nice. 20:00:34 nyef: Yes. 20:00:42 chandler: While you're here, and I think of it, are you subscribed to lisppaste-devel? 20:00:49 ... There's a lisppaste-devel? 20:01:01 (I never did email you about future development/maintenance, but that's the perfect forum for it.) 20:01:10 Has been for years. 20:01:33 Ah. Well, I seem to be subscribed with my common-lisp.net address, which goes nowhere. 20:01:36 I'm moderator for some reason, probably because you have more real life to deal with than I do. 20:02:22 Not that there's any traffic on it, but it's got a public archive, which drewc suggested for any real discussion of the topic. 20:02:33 -!- plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:58 plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has joined #lisp 20:03:22 nyef: Well, I can tell you about what I've done so far. 20:03:45 The XML-RPC interface has been disabled until I feel that it won't be abused. 20:04:10 The set of content regexps has been beefed up, and a user-agent blacklist added for the robot that was pasting before. 20:04:29 When a banned content/title/user-agent is triggered, the IP that triggered it is immediately banned. 20:04:47 If a single IP submits more than N pastes in M seconds, that IP is immediately banned. 20:05:13 Is there a duplicate-post content matcher, so virtually the same thing doesn't get spammed in from a botnet? 20:05:17 I've removed the bot from most channels and will add it back as people ask for it. For many channels, the spam pastes were the first pastes in a year or more. 20:05:42 They're already randomizing content. They'd just start randomizing titles if that was added. 20:05:56 This is the same group of people that have been attacking freenode for years, FWIW. 20:06:00 Yeah, but how random is the content? 20:06:08 Not incredibly random. 20:06:22 If you'd like to add that, go right ahead. 20:06:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:30 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:46 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:50 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:06:56 This last set of measures I've taken is the end for me. If it turns into a problem again, I'm just going to kill it and hope somebody else feels like picking it up. 20:07:07 chandler: as soon as you feel lisppaste is resistant enough, please add it back to #abcl. We use it quite frequently. 20:08:08 Oh, and it now randomizes captchas (sorry, Krystof). 20:08:13 ah well 20:08:32 You haven't done anything on the bot connection management side, have you? 20:08:42 ehu: That's nice. It may never be resistant "enough" unless someone else makes it so. 20:08:50 No, I haven't. 20:09:01 But it should be a lot more robust now that it's just one bot in two channels. 20:09:16 That's true. 20:09:28 Wait, only one bot? 20:09:38 Well, plus minion and specbot. 20:09:59 Yeah, okay, so three bots over a small n of channels. 20:10:51 So anti-spam measures and connection management are probably the big wins at this point. 20:11:41 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:04 The big win would be finding someone else to tend to it. I've had to put out this particular fire three or four times this week, which is three or four times more than I would have liked to. 20:12:24 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-59.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:13:15 Maybe having a detector that checks for too high a post-rate to a channel, throttles it down, and posts a message to the channel as to a temporary kill command? 20:13:39 I'm afraid you're still not getting the point. 20:13:51 Yeah, you don't want to do this anymore, right? 20:13:51 What about some traffic volume limit, if it's breached then automatically shutdown for a while. 20:14:06 we're all getting older 20:14:07 Its not like the normal volume would be that high 20:14:48 Sort of similar to channel flood control 20:16:36 nyef: It's not a question of "want". 20:17:02 It'd also be less likely to be abused if the paste->irc stuff was just turned off permanently, and it just ran the website, minion, and specbot. 20:17:47 There are a lot of things I want to do. I'd like to rewrite the whole mess. That isn't going to ever happen, though. 20:18:51 Yes, that would make abuse less likely, but would also pretty much destroy the one unique feature of lisppaste. Might as well send everyone to some other site at that point. 20:19:28 nodie [~plat0n@158.Red-88-23-118.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:31 heh. I *would* have used another site without that feature. 20:19:33 What about only sending to a channel the author is logged into 20:19:50 Guthur: how do you check? 20:20:00 I suppose you could just fake the name 20:20:10 Guthur: How do you verify authentication? 20:20:15 Guthur: You're offering technical solutions to a non-technical problem. 20:20:20 Ya, never thought that through enough, hehe 20:20:29 (Well, only partly technical.) 20:21:15 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 20:21:20 Well you can't educate spammers, so the only option is to try and engineer around the problem 20:21:21 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:06 That's not the non-technical problem in question. 20:22:29 Oh you mean someone having the time to implement the solutions? 20:22:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:38 Yes. 20:23:10 and someone to actually do the bot administration, probably 20:23:40 That too, though there are things which could be done that would drastically decrease the amount of administration required. 20:24:42 among all the enthousiastic users of lisppaste, isn't there a small team to be formed which can do the administration and fixes? 20:25:09 I mean, lisppaste was in 30 or so channels 20:25:18 It was in over 200, actually. 20:25:24 oh. 20:25:49 But probably most often used by a set of about 30 or so different channels, many of which had nothing to do with Lisp and thus whose users would probably not contribute much. 20:25:52 I thought I'd say 50, but made it lower, affraid of overstating 20:26:21 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:22 I've done some of the programming for lisppaste already, and know how to fix -part- of it, but... I have other interests too. 20:26:35 sure. so do I. 20:26:54 however, my other interests get more efficient when lisppaste works well. 20:27:33 I don't blame you. Care and feeding of bots is not the most glamorous task; neither is fixing someone else's body of source code. 20:27:54 true. 20:28:08 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:20 *Xach* considers setting up lisppaste gold, only $7/month or $0.20/paste 20:28:48 I must say that I didn't have to tend much to my other bot (ayita) until something in SBCL changed - or the machine I hosted it on - which started tripping it up UTF-8 input. 20:28:55 then I let it go. 20:30:23 chandler: where is all the source code to lisppaste? 20:30:26 Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 20:30:52 ehu: It's in CVS on common-lisp.net . 20:31:08 in its own project? 20:31:11 good. 20:31:12 Yes. 20:31:13 Well, most of it is. I suspect that there are some odd bits that aren't actually in source control. 20:31:25 That said, you may not get very far without local hacks and a big mess that's in /home/lisppaste/ . 20:31:58 It's sometimes very difficult to tell years of program evolution from years of bitrot. 20:32:22 heh! 20:32:48 There's also marked differences in style for the same sort of things, based on when they were originally written. 20:33:27 Quite a lot of it has no style at all, actually. 20:33:32 it runs on sbcl-no-unicode? 20:33:33 That too. 20:33:42 You'll find a few functions that are several hundred lines long. 20:33:49 wow 20:33:51 ouch 20:34:16 Yes; it runs without Unicode. This is a wart that ought to be fixed, but hasn't been. 20:34:46 well, it makes input parsing from the web and irc much easier 20:34:53 For a lot of these reasons, it may be best just to blow up the source code, taking only some of the existing parts, and rewrite it. That would surely make it a more interesting task, too. 20:35:16 Actually, I found that keeping the system running while refactoring parts was an interesting challenge. 20:35:44 Once again, what you find interesting baffles me. :-) 20:36:05 When I completely redid the new-paste handling, for example, I didn't break the running system for more than a few minutes at a time, and that was a pretty serious cleanup. 20:36:31 nyef: you did that in a running image? 20:36:38 Yeah. 20:37:03 Make my changes, save them, tell ASDF to rebuild and reload the changed files. Repeat as needed. 20:37:14 Move slowly, and watch for breakage at each step. 20:37:21 right. 20:37:21 That's how I've worked on it for years. 20:37:30 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:37:51 And when I have something ready to commit, flip over to my own user account to commit from the working directory. 20:38:42 I also re-did the paste index access, moved things over to weak pointers for paste bodies, and relocated the paste storage this way. 20:39:11 Yes; lisppaste would most likely have collapsed by now if not for that. 20:39:52 well, if only for #abcl, I would like to "fix" some of lisppaste. 20:40:13 but I'll see if I can find time to do it. 20:40:26 I have more things to try in that area, too. Better index structure, out-of-heap index storage, faster startup, splitting up the paste directory, etc. 20:40:34 -!- Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has left #lisp 20:41:05 nyef: splitting up the pastes directory should be easy. 20:41:08 ehu: We can get you added on the lisppaste group fairly easily, and put your ssh key in the auth list for the lisppaste account if necessary. 20:41:12 Should, yes. 20:41:20 The problem is reloading the index. 20:41:49 hmm. keep an index? 20:42:05 The index is completely rebuilt from the on-disk files at startup. 20:43:00 I'd rather have an on-disk index that doesn't require all that grovelling at startup, and maybe has a separate set of utilities to check it, rebuild it as necessary, etc. 20:43:27 I figured that would be it, when you said so. However, the info on older pastes doesn't change much; the older the pastes, the fewer changes. 20:43:33 That's true. 20:43:46 Actually, the older pastes become immutable after a certain time. 20:44:01 right. 20:44:02 (Might be interesting to compress the older paste files, too.) 20:44:15 francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:44:21 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-234.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:44:29 ehu: I don't think rearranging the pastes directory is quite the right solution. 20:44:54 I'd rather see the pastes moved into some kind of a database, preferably a key-value store. 20:45:00 Hi, can someone give a suggestion to make this better: http://paste.lisp.org/display/110956 I want to convert months to numerical 20:45:01 francogrex, memo from ehu: because the values become part of an interpreted string. That's a security risk. 20:45:12 ok 20:45:29 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 Yeah, you've said that before. I have reservations about being able to -recover- if the store gets corrupted or if we hit some limit on the store. 20:46:00 (And I know we've hit limits on the existing store.) 20:46:30 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:54 I'd suggest Tokyo Tyrant with update logging, which would allow the database to be rebuilt from the log in the event of store corruption. 20:47:34 I'd also like to set up incremental backup to Tarsnap, which I'd gladly pay for. (See http://www.tarsnap.com/ if you're unfamiliar with it.) 20:51:41 nixeagle: A solution has been suggested regarding the problem yesterday. See this http://imagebin.org/98963 20:52:07 marioxcc [~user@200.77.73.145] has joined #lisp 20:52:08 leo2007: cool, so it works for you now :) 20:52:08 hi all 20:52:19 i'm compiling a file, with several (defconstant 20:52:21 the testcase helped you out some leo2007? 20:52:26 Hmm. Tarsnap looks cool. 20:52:28 nixeagle: yes, by using plend1 to terminate a plot 20:52:35 but it's annoying i get constant refefined errror every time I compile 20:52:42 nixeagle: yes, thank you very much ;) 20:52:44 is there any way to disable this behavior (in slime) 20:52:48 nyef: It is. 20:52:55 it would work if I first delete the middle 3 chars in the strings and then insert 2 chars, but how? 20:52:59 marioxcc: don't use defconstant on non-eql values. 20:53:06 leo2007: awesome, can I see the thread :D 20:53:12 pkhuong: ¿what should i use then? 20:53:33 nixeagle: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.plplot.user/92/focus=117 20:53:55 marioxcc: defvar, defparameter or defglobal on sbcl. 20:53:57 I guess another question is, does it still make sense to have everything in one image, or could it profitably be broken up into multiple processes? 20:54:04 ehu, nyef: I'd be glad to provide suggestions, or answer questions about how to move forward. 20:54:08 pkhuong: ok 20:54:25 chandler: we may take you up on that! :-) 20:54:52 leo2007: awesome :), removing slime is a good way to help the devs out :) 20:54:59 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 20:55:02 And the following two questions are "what do we need to know about administering the system", and "how can we make the administrative interface better". 20:55:08 ... and potentially even pitch in on various different things. I just don't have the reliable time or energy to be putting out fires on this any longer. 20:55:17 nixeagle: yes, setting up slime isn't entirely hassle-free. 20:55:27 nyef: Those are questions probably best addressed over email. 20:55:29 leo2007: its not setting slime up that the problem is 20:55:42 Fair enough. Are you still your-first-name@your-last-name.net? 20:55:58 And/or are you subscribed to lisppaste-devel, which is the obvious place to discuss this? 20:56:03 nixeagle: I mean for them to set it up and reproduce the problem. It lays a barrier there. 20:56:05 leo2007: the problem is slime does a _ton_ of stuff, that when folks get bugs that happen only in the repl and not in something without slime... its hard to guess what part of slime causes that behavior. 20:56:23 leo2007: I'm pretty sure someone working on that project has slime and uses it every day 20:56:34 aw [~aw@p5DDAAE68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:37 nyef: Yes, I just subscribed. 20:56:41 ehu: Are you subscribed? 20:56:55 Okay, I'll post an initial message there tonight. 20:57:09 nixeagle: I am glad to find a working driver that has nice output. the xwin driver is pretty awful. 20:57:12 Anyone else who is interested should feel free to join as well. 20:57:15 leo2007: the quickest way to get problems solved is to make the problem into just a few lines of lisp without some intermediate thing in the middle (slime). 20:57:20 I am. 20:57:27 just sent the subscription request 20:57:37 nyef: Do have a look at Tokyo Tyrant as well; I think it's an extremely nice interface to a key-value store. 20:57:46 And actually, I believe I've got a Lisp client (or most of one) lying around. 20:57:47 leo2007: I'm glad you solved it though :> 20:57:56 Yeah, I looked at TT a while back. 20:58:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 20:58:11 I remember why I didn't want to touch it. 20:58:26 nixeagle: I tried so many plotting packages only this one feels right. tightly integrated into lisp. 20:58:33 nyef: Yes? 20:58:38 It would involve either adding an FFI component, or an additional network interface. 20:59:01 Are either of those really an issue? 20:59:07 And both are nasty propositions, particularly with how delicately balanced the system is resource-wise right now. 21:00:13 The primary resource-related flakiness in lisppaste has been FD exhaustion. Surely using a single, persistent TCP connection to talk to the database is better from that perspective than opening individual files for pastes. 21:00:41 It's more a question of "what happens if the DB server goes away"? 21:01:28 (Or a UNIX domain socket, actually.) 21:01:37 Is that likely to be an issue of concern? 21:01:55 Presumably pastes would fail, and attempts to read existing pastes would fail. 21:01:57 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:02:08 Right, and then we need a recovery strategy for that. 21:02:28 That depends on how likely a situation that is. 21:03:02 It could well be that the database server process itself is the most reliable element of the system. 21:03:09 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-17-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:03:17 The probability of the database being inaccessible -at some point- approaches unity. 21:03:54 Yes, well, the probability of common-lisp.net going down, or its disk getting full, or SBCL going out to lunch and locking up, etc. all approach unity over a long enough period. 21:04:07 And we don't handle those situations well, either. 21:04:29 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-44-47.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:52 If those were the only administrative tasks of note, I would be glad to deal with them. 21:05:29 I sent to lisppaste-devel-request that's the right address? 21:05:47 it's taking c-l.net a long time to answer my request 21:05:53 ehu: I'm not sure; try using the web subscription interface at http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisppaste-devel 21:06:06 (Other people should feel free to click on that link too!) 21:06:45 -!- francogrex [~user@3.83-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:57 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:14 that worked. 21:07:24 nyef: If moving to an external database process allowed SBCL to die and restart quickly, then it would be a very significant reliability improvement even accounting for any extra problems introduced by the database. 21:08:29 chandler: one intriguing question: why a database? What's wrong with all the small files? 21:08:38 -!- iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has quit [Quit: iley] 21:08:43 or maybe all the small files packed into bigger ones 21:09:02 iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has joined #lisp 21:09:09 Once you add an index, you're basically rewriting a key-value store. 21:09:11 -!- iley [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:11 the data is hardly changing after it has been around for 4 weeks 21:09:19 true. 21:09:33 I'm not suggesting an SQL database. I'm suggesting an external key-value store that is already written. 21:09:44 ok. 21:09:57 Toyko Cabinet is one suggestion for that 21:10:10 That's all it is basically 21:10:19 That is, in fact, what I suggested - albiet in its Tokyo Tyrant guise. 21:10:28 Sorry I missed that 21:10:31 "albeit", even. 21:11:21 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:37 I was already thinking of suggesting that for lisspaste 21:11:43 rucksack is also another possibility 21:13:10 Xach's cdb code is another (: 21:13:35 I thought the cdb code was read-only? 21:13:53 A constant database would be a riot with several hundred MB of pastes. 21:13:56 nyef: it is 21:14:15 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-178.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:14:24 Okay, I've got an unexpected guest, so I need to disappear for a bit. 21:14:33 p_l: I never had a good confidence factor in rucksack. 21:14:40 As I said, I'll draft a message to the list about this tonight. 21:15:00 (Or maybe multiple messages, the paste storage thing possibly wants to be a separate thread.) 21:15:08 p_l: Feel free to join lisppaste-devel and contribute to the discussion, though! 21:15:24 chandler the oldest pastes are really constant. 21:15:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:36 and cdb is up to 4 GB 21:15:59 but I get your point. 21:16:31 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 Yes, they are constant, but the structure of a cdb is such that they would be written out on every new paste anyway. 21:16:52 A typical b-tree database would truly avoid rewriting them. 21:16:55 -!- horze [~kim@c-312672d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 21:18:27 ah. in my mind I was separating addressing the constant and potentially changing ones 21:19:34 chandler: well, drewc said something about keeping over 10G of data in it without problems, the only real problem being serialization of transactions 21:19:35 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:44 Paste bodies are *always* constant. Sufficiently new pastes might be annotated. Any old paste might be deleted at any time. 21:20:26 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:52 p_l: I'd have to look more at its design to get a better feel for it. Will the database format stay the same or change over time? What utilities are available to work with database files? Is it possible for a database file to become corrupt, and if so, how can it be recovered? 21:22:11 Basically, I'd like to know that there's a good chance that it will work without spontaneous combustion for the next half a decade or so. 21:22:41 clynbech [~user@188.177.171.238] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 don't know details like that yet - there's the binary spec inside rucksack, and I suspect it will work ok. Another *stable* option would be BDB 21:22:56 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:06 Hah. No, BDB is about the furthest thing from stable. :-) 21:23:45 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@12.204.161.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:58 If you've never had a BDB database mysteriously and irrevocably corrupt itself, consider yourself very lucky indeed. 21:23:59 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:24:34 -!- clynbech [~user@188.177.171.238] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:44 Honestly, though, if someone else volunteered to take on the day-to-day administrivia and decided to use BDB or Rucksack or whatever, I wouldn't say no. 21:25:14 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:33:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:46 I was wondering why I was seeing very little common-lisp.net mail list activity...overzealous postgrey 21:37:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:52 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.55.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:42:26 billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-180-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:58 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ea5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:31 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:11 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:56:40 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 21:56:41 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 21:56:41 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:56:48 hi, how do one split ((1 2) (3 4)) to (1 2 3 4)? 22:01:01 Saul_Goodman [~stos@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:31 osxnull [~3cd9e82e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ptyhqnzlvehtsfcn] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 Sposato_obamaklo [~c8aa5164@gateway/web/freenode/x-lalaveozirtgcvkb] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 nullbsd [~43d05bdc@gateway/web/freenode/x-mclntctngirbzkvr] has joined #lisp 22:02:56 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22:05:19 ?DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0 yes hello, timecop here. irc.efnet.org #linuxwarez owns you kids. 22:05:24 ?DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0 yes hello, timecop here. irc.efnet.org #linuxwarez owns you kids. 22:05:25 ?DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0 yes hello, timecop here. irc.efnet.org #linuxwarez owns you kids. 22:05:31 -!- Xor_RubyWeb [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:05:52 -!- PhpgitPerl [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:05:53 rpx: (apply #'append list-of-lists) 22:06:00 -!- FunccvsDrone [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:06:14 -!- scolorezDev [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:06:34 -!- Sposato_ruby [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:06:41 -!- Tablorez [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 22:06:42 Phoodus, thanks. So it is solved with a lambda not a keyword 22:07:03 silly skiddies 22:07:04 -!- Sposato_obamaklo [~c8aa5164@gateway/web/freenode/x-lalaveozirtgcvkb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:04 -!- osxnull [~3cd9e82e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ptyhqnzlvehtsfcn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:21 -!- drewc has set mode -i 22:07:26 -!- bsdrubymquin [~3fae3c0b@gateway/web/freenode/x-lbrtgaiyczoqmwoz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:26 -!- nullbsd [~43d05bdc@gateway/web/freenode/x-mclntctngirbzkvr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:45 Phoodus: worked perfect. Thanks a lot ! 22:07:46 rpx__: it's solved by passing your lists to the existing #'append function 22:07:48 -!- PerlPhpThing [~ca98295b@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxagxgacaswuhrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- terryjava [~c371e35b@gateway/web/freenode/x-zuysyuwtogmwozwy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- TerrytabmowSparc [~dea585c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-nxhulojumluigmon] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- plazmaBell [~ca2b730c@gateway/web/freenode/x-xxaqbpresdpdvots] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- amigaXorPlan9 [~7b7d9c97@gateway/web/freenode/x-efynpmeqxlmjkekd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- RailsX86 [~cb6d75f2@gateway/web/freenode/x-mxahhiopyjewmzqa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- Neurolorez [~ca6c324d@gateway/web/freenode/x-vnzvffwwjnybsctn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:48 -!- Solaris_Rubylinu [~c8cd9d43@gateway/web/freenode/x-urzvmsermwvgajwu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:08 (apply #'append '((1 2) (3 4))) -> (append '(1 2) '(3 4)) 22:08:10 -!- webDevDrone [~7c2a0a77@gateway/web/freenode/x-gicfwjmxmdahsisj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- railsGnu_asm [~76609851@gateway/web/freenode/x-apkyvtocedunpucs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- railsApple [~57fa6fe2@gateway/web/freenode/x-ctyxzpwqmckuztgl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- HubBellApple [~de7ca60b@gateway/web/freenode/x-mhhyxghohjoqjkyp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- Tabnettabmow [~d38a7cce@gateway/web/freenode/x-zcnjlpijoonalfmk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- guinea_WormDrone [~d38a7cfc@gateway/web/freenode/x-nfaqhoemiycatvqg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- RailsNext [~5272a022@gateway/web/freenode/x-kzupgnreawwxkysw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:10 -!- nodeAsmUnix [~50bf996e@gateway/web/freenode/x-nonsrdnbdcmijpzp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:32 -!- computersthingpl [~29eace41@gateway/web/freenode/x-biqbezrqcjjqungv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:32 -!- PhpTabbsd [~5e5950da@gateway/web/freenode/x-bjbvdxzgdlbghqlh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:32 -!- Gnuxor [~50bf996e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wddatpuqayesqhkg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:32 -!- tabmowLilo [~be5f8586@gateway/web/freenode/x-lskyksjahwascofm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:48 -!- tabnetcvsBell [~5289c38a@gateway/web/freenode/x-cieqyrazhotgyber] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:08:54 -!- TabnetPhp [~d8d68602@gateway/web/freenode/x-qajeebulqvrgiywb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:54 -!- neuroguinea [~cc832ec8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rqfxrzqwizmcnuyy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:54 -!- free_Web [~57fa6fe2@gateway/web/freenode/x-nuqkiozoksssveqr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:54 -!- solarissco [~530c3302@gateway/web/freenode/x-zhulzdlibldfakro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:54 Phoodus: works perfect. I wish you a great night 22:09:04 rpx__: if your list can be larger than call-arguments-limit, you probably want REDUCE instead of APPLY 22:09:13 marienz [marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 22:09:16 -!- SunosAtariBicycl [~7bc108bd@gateway/web/freenode/x-zzognonibqntxiiy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:38 -!- Nodecvs [~7afcead6@gateway/web/freenode/x-xrhxoxyhklpjbylv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:46 idoru [idoru@freenode/utility-bot/ex-server/idoru] has joined #lisp 22:10:02 drewc: thanks! I will look into it as well. Now I have a start to search for 22:10:22 clhs REDUCE 22:10:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 22:10:34 clhs APPLY 22:10:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 22:10:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:11:22 Thanks everyone :) I start reading right away 22:11:28 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:14 hrm, hu.dwim.reiterate is now at 550 lines and only misses a few clauses to know everything iterate knows, and it's based on a proper walker. i think all the depth work is done. 22:13:49 -!- idoru [idoru@freenode/utility-bot/ex-server/idoru] has left #lisp 22:13:57 for the interested: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.reiterate;a=summary 22:15:32 attila_lendvai: Out of curiosity, what is improper about iterate's walker? 22:15:50 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 22:16:39 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:23 redline6561: one very annoying thing is the it does not extend the lexenv with the variables it introduces. another rather annoying thing is that if you use a macro inside an iter that has a nested iter in it, then you'll be surprised to notice that your (collect ...) form collects into the iter used in a macro you've never seen 22:18:22 attila_lendvai: Interesting. Thanks. 22:18:24 in reiterate i use cons identities to detect that case, and effectively make the clauses lexically scoped 22:18:48 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:39 I am thinking of using asdf2 with ccl. Is the transition smooth? 22:22:55 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:13 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 22:27:16 leo2007: I haven't tested CCL much but it works okay on SBCL 1.0.37, LW5.1 and ACL8.2 22:27:26 I think I tested it also on CLISP 2.48 22:28:13 you might have issues with some systems that extend ASDF incorrectly or make some assumptions that aren't true 22:28:36 ok, did you remove the old asdf completely? 22:28:36 (I had to add #. in few places when certain systems generated their pathnames programmatically) 22:29:15 leo2007: No, I just don't load contrib ASDF, loading ASDF from git being the first part of my sbclrc (and the others don't load ASDF by themselves) 22:29:21 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 22:29:29 I haven't read up on ASDF2. Has it solved the disparity with the lack of symlinks on windows? 22:29:55 we end up adding to asdf's path on both windows and linux for compatibility purposes 22:30:13 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:34 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:42 well, it (CCL + ASDF2) failed to load iolib (but it's frequent offender), but hunchentoot and parenscript loaded okay with all deps, the same for rucksack 22:32:58 Phoodus: it does support recursive search for asdf files and a nicer config scheme 22:33:11 nice 22:33:32 our solution with asdf1 ended up pretty workable 22:33:52 the lisp init file would set a var to the machine's checkout root 22:34:04 so you can add projects just by adding config files (which are read in order, kinda like init scripts) 22:34:07 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 22:34:08 the project init then appends the path to all the .asd files 22:34:22 so both windows & linux can just checkout & invoke, with no #+windows stuff 22:34:36 p_l: thanks for the info. 22:34:52 p_l: definitely sounds like something we want to move to 22:35:59 other than patching some errant systems it works fine for me, now I'm thinking of building a nice system based on ASDF2 to replace my growing set of modifications to clbuild (which are such a mess that they aren't fit for a patch) 22:36:43 ok. subscribed to lisppaste. 22:36:48 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 22:36:48 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 22:40:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:44 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@247.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:47:11 -!- plage [~user@58.186.15.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:48 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 22:51:24 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 I am trying to define (defmethod plot (x (y array) &optional device file) ...... ) I want to use before method to set up some sane values for device and file. Is using global variables the only way to pass the setup to the primary method? 22:53:49 Basically i need to check if DEVICE requires a file name and ask the user a name if it does. The primary method need to make use of this information. 22:53:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-52.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:03 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:59:53 segv [~mb@p4FC1AB7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:37 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:02:55 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:45 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:42 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:50 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:52 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 23:07:34 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08:44 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:08:44 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:37 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:49 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:14:30 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:14:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:14 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-163-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:20:52 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:37 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-163-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:24:26 Hmm, if I have a darcs repo like trivial-garbage checked out, is there a way to get back to a specific state of the repo from sometime in the past? 23:25:24 leo2007: it would be easier if you didn't make them optional 23:26:00 leo2007: then you could have something like (defmethod plot (x (y array) (device something-needing-file) (file null)) (plot x y device (prompt-for-file)))))) 23:28:13 Xach: thanks for offering another solution. I go with global variables for now. 23:28:24 Or, say I have trivial-garbage checked out. Is there some (hopefully short) bit of identifying metadata i can use in the future to check out the same thing i have now? 23:28:38 leo2007: another option is to have that &optional version and a lower-level version with four required arguments 23:29:17 then it's something like (defun plot (x y &optional device file) (plot/4 x y device file)), then add methods to plot/4 23:31:08 _8david` [~user@pD9540BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:53 Xach: I have kept these options on file for later reference ;) 23:32:43 I am using :after method for cleanup. How to make sure it always get run even when primary method errs? 23:33:15 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:47 -!- _8david [~user@pD95418B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:14 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:23 maden [~maden@static-68-236-126-45.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:35 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 23:39:53 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 23:41:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:07 -!- l34k [~Mibbit@cpe-72-129-28-65.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: l34k] 23:47:50 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 23:53:52 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:54:14 leo2007: use and :around and UNWIND-PROTECT 23:54:21 an :around*