00:00:05 hell, if I wanted to, I could give CLOS a go and wrap my c interface in that =p 00:01:14 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:47 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:17 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:03:36 bbl 00:03:42 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dongs] 00:04:42 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:06:34 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.211.175] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:06:50 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:07:01 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:07 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-179-104-47.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:38 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:10:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.18.232.cable.starman.ee] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:01 -!- shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:10:47 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.18.232.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:11:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:22 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-179-104-47.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:25 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:34 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:12:39 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 00:12:40 -!- vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:12:49 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 00:13:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:13:18 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 00:14:23 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:45 Paraselene_ [~Not@81-178-167-119.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:00 minion: memo for orm: If you use callbacks into Lisp from your C library make sure all callbacks are made from a thread that the Lisp knows about. If callbacks into Lisp are made from a thread that is created by your C library then you will experience nasty crashes. 00:16:00 Remembered. I'll tell orm when he/she/it next speaks. 00:16:21 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:18:52 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:58 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:30 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:25 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:26 -!- RaceCondition is now known as of 00:24:55 -!- of is now known as RaceCondition 00:29:12 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:05 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:30:44 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:31:20 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:15 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:36:27 -!- tootroot is now known as \x20lol 00:36:40 -!- \x20lol is now known as tootroot 00:38:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-207-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:38:50 derekv [~user@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:20 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:29 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:44:59 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:02 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:10 -!- prip [~foo@host92-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:16 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 00:50:13 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.76] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:51:27 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:02 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:26 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.125] has joined #lisp 00:53:13 is there some simple way to: '(#\x #\y "foo" #\z) => "xyfoox" 00:53:55 I've done it a few different ways, no of which are pretty 00:54:13 (concatenate 'string (mapcar #'string x)) ? 00:54:42 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:49 Oops, left an apply out of that. 00:55:15 You could just print them all and capture it in a string-stream ... 00:55:25 hrm 00:55:55 (with-output-to-string ... ? 00:56:01 you mean that 00:56:03 drewc: herep 00:56:24 felideon: t 00:57:00 hrm, or format 00:57:53 yeah, format is pretty clean cut 00:58:13 drewc: in a web app (UCW), do you usually keep one kind of "master" window and have different components that inherit it? 00:58:14 (format nil "~{~A~}" '(#\q #\x "foo" #\y #\z "bar" #\M)) => "qxfooyzbarM" 00:58:16 prip [~foo@host33-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:58:26 Zhivago: thanks for the hints 00:59:19 felideon: if you're asking if i have multiple window components that inherit from a common superclass, then yes. 01:00:17 drewc: so is this common superclass also a window, or just a generic component? 01:00:53 when I say window I mean it inherits any of the window mixins 01:01:59 either/both really, depends on the application. what is it you are trying to do? 01:03:10 hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:03:51 nothing in particular. I'm just trying to get a feel for what might be good style. 01:04:09 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:15 wiggles [wa6Z4JWenv@2001:470:c1ae::1] has joined #lisp 01:07:24 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20055D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:08:14 finally have some time today to poke at UCW. someone thanked me a few days ago for the few notes I posted as they were able to write their first UCW app. 01:13:51 felideon: well, it really depends. usually, all my components inherit from a common superclass, and i often use a custom metaclass even, so maybe i'm not a good example :) 01:14:13 hehe gotcha 01:18:31 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:19:46 Odin-MAC [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:20:08 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-56.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:20:31 -!- Odin-MAC [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:05 -!- abugosh 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timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:37 X-Scale [email@89.180.219.203] has joined #lisp 02:43:11 Does anyone know what to do with unused variables so they don't trigger a warning? 02:43:26 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:32 RustyWheeler: Remove their declarations? 02:43:37 (declare (ignore variable)) 02:44:48 It's for a callback function that requires a certain value be passed that I don't use. I think ignore is what I need. Thanks. 02:44:51 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:45:03 Good morning! 02:46:03 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:44 'morning 02:47:58 *p_l* is slightly chipper now that he might pass the year 02:48:33 p_l: Congratulations! 02:49:41 hi beach 02:49:51 How can I make CLisp stop printing the result of every S-expression? 02:50:57 I have a file containing (format t (concatenate 'string "You typed \"" (write-to-string (read)) "\".")) which prints foo before printing what the format function prints. 02:51:54 (OK, so maybe it's not printing every s-exp, but it is printing two lines when it should only be printing one.) 02:52:13 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:59 aidalgol: i can't make any sense out of your question 02:53:17 OK, I'll paste something. :) 02:53:21 *_3b`* suspects the answer involves -eval or -load or something similar 02:53:29 aidalgol: the REPL includes a P 02:53:29 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:01 *drewc* bets its (print 'foo) FOO => FOO 02:54:34 i see only format here, which returns NIL 02:54:35 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:37 beach: it's surprising how hard can it be for a student to speak about his/her problems to faculty 02:54:57 p_l: Sorry to hear that! :( 02:55:00 stassats: oh, you're right 02:55:01 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 http://sprunge.us/GCVE 02:55:24 minion: tell aidalgol about lisppaste 02:55:33 hrm 02:55:36 lisppaste: url? 02:55:40 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:03 minion: paste 02:56:03 paste: lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations 02:56:04 <_3b`> ah, you want it to not echo the input maybe? 02:56:27 beach: well, I have a chance at passing the year now, without having the specter of issues of last year I might get back into working shape for third year (and this would help not only my official study-related work but also my lisp projects) 02:56:37 *aidalgol* bangs his head hard against the heater. 02:56:43 -!- prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:56:51 OK, sorry for my stupidity. :P 02:57:12 careful, you may break the poor heater 02:57:17 p_l: That would be a good thing indeed. 02:58:10 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:58:41 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Oh, no! I'm going to be late! D:] 03:01:15 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:02:05 beach: at least I managed this year to get another person interested in Lisp :D 03:02:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:03:57 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 03:04:12 p_l: That great! If we all do that once a year, there will be lots of lispers. 03:04:45 prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:05:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:06:16 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:17 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:00 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:11 -!- prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:13:17 hi, I feel like I should know this by now: how do I compile/load correctly to not error on a function call before it's defined? (progn (foo) (defun foo ())) 03:14:28 egn: Put the call and the definition in the same file. 03:14:34 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:22 beach: I tried that with load and compile-file then load. what's the correct way to do it? 03:15:29 then loading the fasl* 03:16:17 <_3b`> you can't call it before it is loaded 03:17:11 <_3b`> you can load a function that calls it, but not actually call it 03:17:22 _3b`: okay, thanks 03:18:16 egn: http://paste.lisp.org/display/100545 03:19:40 beach: thanks. I'll just arrange the definitions properly then 03:19:59 egn: I think that past shows that that isn't necessary. 03:20:59 beach: er, my case was http://paste.lisp.org/display/100546 03:21:28 egn: Oh, I see. Right, you can't call a function before it is defined. 03:21:42 [that should be obvious] 03:22:14 yeah, it was obvious to me with load but I wondered if compile-file did any magic 03:22:25 or, some other compilation method 03:23:09 egn: That would require that the compiler rearrange the top-level forms, which would alter the semantics according to the standard. 03:23:20 beach: ah, okay 03:23:52 *_3b`* isn't completely sure it would be nonconformant, would be unexpected though 03:24:25 prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:24:50 *_3b`* is too lazy to look up what compilers are allowed to do to things in the same compilation unit though 03:25:41 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:07 asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.173] has joined #lisp 03:31:49 -!- prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:32:22 prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:37:04 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-214-26.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:04 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-214-26.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:37:04 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:38:10 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:42:31 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:45:20 -!- prip [~foo@host225-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:46:42 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 03:48:56 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-184-59.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-184-59.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:48:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:50:57 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 03:53:49 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Quit:   .] 03:58:19 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:40 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:59:57 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:00:40 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 04:00:53 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.131.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:58 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:59 -!- hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:06 _3b: tfs are supposed to be executed in order 04:02:10 hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:02:13 hohoho [~hohoho@p67fbbb.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:02:32 _3b: however, the order of tlfs and the form evaluated by load-time-value is unspecified 04:03:42 <_3b`> tcr: right, but could it have inlined the body of FOO from the same compilation unit into the call to FOO before the defun of FOO? 04:06:46 when I (trace foo) is there a way to have specific print-object methods called during the trace? Or would I have to write some sort of (with-friendly-trace ...) to add then remove the methods. 04:07:09 xinming [~hyy@125.109.245.54] has joined #lisp 04:07:56 so basically I want certain objects printed representation to be altered during a trace 04:09:27 hrm, I wonder if I could specialize on the type of stream 04:12:38 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 -!- RustyWheeler [~kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:45 trace is frickin awesome for tracing a recursive descent parser, but If I could tweak the output it would be a snap to find a problem. 04:16:38 _3b: Yeah I think so 04:17:49 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-191.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:18:59 -!- tantan__ [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:41 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:19 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:27:28 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:28:20 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 04:28:56 RustyWheeler [~kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:30:00 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.73.186] has joined #lisp 04:30:03 -!- Bobrobyn_ [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31:21 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:33:43 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:00 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:39 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has left #lisp 04:42:43 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:14 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:22 akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.107] has joined #lisp 04:43:44 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:45:09 hello anyone, I'm working on an educational project right now and have some basic questions 04:46:21 is it possible to specialize a method argument on two particular symbols? 04:48:40 vng [~user@123.21.160.215] has joined #lisp 04:49:02 (defmethod foo ((x (eq 'this)) (y (eq 'that))) ...) ; something like that? 04:49:09 Good morning! 04:49:36 or you want two symbols in the (eq (or'foo 'bar)), cant do that afaik 04:50:33 <_3b`> i think sbcl has extensions that would allow that 04:51:24 _3b`: are you the one that gave me the link about using things other than (eq 'foo) to specialize on? 04:51:33 maybe it was nyef 04:53:18 *_3b`* doesn't remember doing so 04:53:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:46 well, actually that's to do with particular 'instances', not symbols. Maybe I parsed akamaus' question wrong 04:54:27 bytecolor, yes like this. but I like x to be either 'this or 'that 04:55:32 akamaus: not in core common lisp, but as _3b` mentioned there are probably extensions, I don't know 04:55:48 maus [~maus@222.253.95.88] has joined #lisp 04:56:10 bytecolor, thanks, I need a portable solution 04:56:11 Good afternoon! 04:56:25 hello maus 04:56:31 hi vng 04:57:21 bytecolor: it's EQL, not EQ 04:57:32 stassats: ah 05:02:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nnyocstuyxyeyhyq] has joined #lisp 05:08:23 can I get a reference to an element of an array and use it to write something to it later? 05:11:28 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:28 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:11:28 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 05:16:40 can method have optional arguments? 05:18:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nnyocstuyxyeyhyq] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:18:56 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 05:18:56 &optional? 05:20:58 i have some code that is writing a large number of small strings to a file (rdf triple like assertions), any idea on what should i use to do this in a fast way, right now i can write at nearly 0.5 megabytes a second 05:21:26 i am using format currently 05:22:10 tic_, yes, but what's the syntax, then I try (arg def-value) def-value seems to be seen as class specializer 05:22:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-khvcferfsdtqftgb] has joined #lisp 05:22:42 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:23:21 akamaus - http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/m_defmet.htm 05:23:37 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:55 <_3b`> Dawgmatix: set *print-pretty* to nil? 05:24:07 Dawgmatix, thanks, I've been wandering there, but could find appropriate section 05:25:09 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:25:34 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:27:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has left #lisp 05:28:56 thanks 3b that helps, o/p is now ~2 megabytes a second 05:28:57 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:56 tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.80.17] has joined #lisp 05:33:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.94.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:35:59 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.73.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:43 can someone please tell me how to fix http://pastebin.com/xSFET24S so that board cells c1 and c2 get updated? 05:37:50 tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.32.65] has joined #lisp 05:37:53 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:21 is this a homework question? 05:39:06 using handler-case here isn't a good idea 05:39:18 clhs array-in-bounds-p 05:39:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ar_in_.htm 05:39:21 Dawgmatix, sort of 05:39:36 stassats, thanks 05:40:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:11 to set an array value you have to do (setf (aref ... )) 05:41:13 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:42:14 if youre in univ, you would do well to open ansi common lisp by pg and read through the basic stuff , alternatively http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a great intro book too 05:42:33 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:24 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:36 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:26 Dawgmatix, I've read Practical Common Lisp last autumn, I've just forgot many small but important details. I'm browsing through it right now, by the way 05:44:47 -!- derekv [~user@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: if its brown.freenode.net... flush it down?] 05:45:19 cool have fun, learning lisp has many rewarding moments 05:45:43 Is NIL the only difference between cons and list 05:45:44 Dawgmatix, so there is no way to avoid doing that lengthy index calculations twice in my example? 05:45:58 leo2007: yes 05:46:48 stassats: thanks 05:46:59 akamaus, i can help you with the lisp parts but not the data representation, logic parts 05:47:17 that is your burden to bear 05:47:49 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 05:49:35 Dawgmatix, well, I think my question is 100% lispy ) in C++ I would just make a reference to these values, so I expected lisp to have a similar mechanism 05:49:47 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:07 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:35 -!- aw1 is now known as aw 05:51:17 with cffi, is a there a way to simply return a lisp struct from a foreign struct ? 05:52:35 I can create the lisp struct, then use foreign-slot-value on each element of the foreign struct to fill it, but I was hoping there would be a simpler way 05:54:00 stassats: a while back did you add something to slime that could inspect intelligently? 05:54:07 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:44 leo2007: i only added slime-inspect-definition 05:54:46 Could it now inspect plot for example in (defmethod plot ...) when the point is around there? 05:55:49 stassats: just tried it, very nice. 05:57:16 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:19 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 05:58:09 stassats: why not bind it to C-c i? 05:58:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:58:38 leo2007: you can bind it easily 05:58:48 hello lispers 05:59:14 stassats: yeah. if it is unlike to do it upstream I will bind it in my init file. 05:59:55 how can I output in printable format "=?utf-8?B?SW52ZXN0aSBpbiB1bm8gZGVpIHBvc3RpIHBpw7kgYmVsbGkgZGVsIG1vbmRvLi4u?=" ? 06:00:57 looks quite printable 06:02:00 stassats, you know what I mean :P 06:02:03 <_3b`> M-x base64-decode-region? :p 06:04:45 _3b, yes it works, but in CL ? I have to then output the string with hunchentoot, so in the same output format 06:06:20 _3b`, also when do I have to decode base64 or parse a string like "=?iso-8859-1?Q?SMARTeSolutions=20EXCEPTION=20Report=20:=20Eligible=20eMeter=20Devices=20:=20Date=20:=2019=20Jan=202009=20(1=20of=201)?=" 06:07:09 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:08:02 <_3b`> kiuma: from a bit of random searching, you want rfc2047, possibly implemented by http://www.cliki.net/CL-RFC2047 06:08:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:31 _3b, thanks I'm going to check it 06:10:01 wow it seems what I need :) 06:10:22 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-khvcferfsdtqftgb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:31 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:13:34 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:15:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mtmeiccqqpoznone] has joined #lisp 06:15:32 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:20:32 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:26:10 _3b`, sigh! rfc2047 does not work with "=?windows-1252?Q?..._fare_regali_non_=E8_mai_stato_cos=EC_comodo?=" :/ 06:28:16 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 06:28:47 _3b`, anyway s/windows-1252/iso-8859-1/ correctly decodes it, do you think it's a wrong approach ? 06:29:31 *_3b`* would probably add the windows-* encodings to the lib if possible 06:33:47 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:34:19 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:34:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:36:04 nostoi [~nostoi@85.Red-79-146-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:37:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:12 good morning 06:38:53 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:57 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@85.Red-79-146-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:44:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:45:41 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA94DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:47 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.32.65] has left #lisp 06:47:33 -!- akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49:11 -!- wiggles [wa6Z4JWenv@2001:470:c1ae::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:50:57 aw [~aw@p5DDA94DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:33 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:00 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:06 -!- codemonkeyx [~codemonke@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:37 codemonkeyx [~codemonke@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:28 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75474f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:43 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:59:55 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:25 billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-188-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:01 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:21 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.219.203] has left #lisp 07:02:22 prip [~foo@host136-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:03:11 Jabberwockey [~jens@p508ECDF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:27 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:44 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 07:04:50 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:08:57 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:34 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 damn, clojure just makes me sad. The only way people will use lisp is if it's paired with java :P 07:12:34 that's what turns me off actually 07:13:15 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:13:17 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:15 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:14:55 well, yeah 07:15:18 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:38 ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 that and the syntax. 07:17:52 I dont think the 'popularity' of lisp has anything to do with parentheses or whatever limitiations a fan of language X can come up with and more to do with just how difficult it is to grok lisp. 07:18:04 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:18:10 bytecolor: but lisp ... isn't that difficult to grok O.o 07:18:13 easier than C++, certainly. 07:18:27 Ralith: not in my opinion ;) 07:18:39 I am trying to make a program that would accept a list and interact with a user. The trick is that I would like to give it a functional vibe. I am having a hard time doing it because apparently I cannot figure how I could keep the list value while it interacts with the use. Would somebody be kind enough to eye ball it and tell me if I missed to hard? http://paste.lisp.org/+25L6. The `push' part is the trouble one, I think. 07:18:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:55 bytecolor: what strikes you as hard? 07:19:14 HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has joined #lisp 07:19:23 Ralith, Lisp is a complitery different language compared to others C ~= C++ ~=JAVA ~= PHP ... 07:19:29 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:19:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:19:52 Ralith: pick any 'piece' of common lisp, be it format, loop, macros, clos, etc. each of which can not be learned in a couple of days or even weeks (months, years) ? 07:20:01 may windows-1252 be ported to some iso encoding ? 07:20:23 kiuma: that's not relevant 07:20:45 bytecolor: true, but you don't *need* to understand every subtle detail of them to use them. 07:20:56 I imagine I'll still be learning things about emacs a decade from now, for example. 07:21:01 I'm trying to (cl-rfc2047:decode "=?windows-1252?Q?..._fare_regali_non_=E8_mai_stato_cos=EC_comodo?=") but it doesn't work 07:21:34 Just a rookie opinion: An imperative language is more easy to grasp. 07:21:35 Ralith, nod, but I just can't see any other reason common lisp is not one of the first choices for general programming. I think maybe a lot of people dont give it enough time to start sinking in. 07:22:05 bytecolor: well, consider C++, which is *very* mainstream and whose idiosyncracies are *much* harder to work out than the details of CL. 07:22:16 bytecolor: frankly, I think it's just a 'marketing' issue, so to speak. 07:22:37 Ralith: no small part, sure 07:22:54 admittedly the scale is disturbing. 07:23:26 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:38 rsynnott_ [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:23:39 levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:23:40 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:47 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:16 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-162-208-66.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:44 didi: good thing common lisp is imperative 07:24:51 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:17 stassats: Well, so I missed the term, but my point still stands. 07:25:42 lisp is easy to grasp, i agree 07:25:45 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:25:50 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:51 stassats: Quite the contrary. 07:27:18 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:24 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:28:56 that's because you don't remember how it was to learn your first language 07:29:05 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:29:57 stassats: I was thinking about this. And I think that maybe you don't remember when you learned lisp. 07:30:11 I wonder if I'm going about this the right way. I enter a context, add a few methods to a few classes, then upon exiting the context, I remove the methods. 07:30:41 didi: Quite the contrary. 07:32:29 *didi* jmp . 07:33:17 @Ralith mind if I quote you on C++/Lisp re idiosyncracies 07:33:41 i remember being clueless and frustrated for not understanding Lisp. but i experience this whenever i learn something completely new 07:33:48 toast-opt: I'm not an authority. You should derive your own conclusions. 07:34:09 this is how things seem to me at the moment. 07:34:27 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 07:34:48 if you want someone to quote, at least ask someone who's been lisping for longer than a year :P 07:34:52 heh, i mean only that you put it well. C++ and Common Lisp are both huge languages, with lots of different libraries, syntax forms, etc. but still, Lisp seems to get in my way less 07:35:11 okay. 07:35:16 :P hard to find. if you Lisp for more than a year, you find yourself unemployable :-) 07:35:28 that's not true 07:35:32 tell that to everyone here. 07:35:37 (to toast-opt) 07:36:03 well, sorry, no offense intended. I mean only that there are far more places impressed by "Java" or "C++" on a resume 07:36:09 indeed. 07:36:17 one can be fluent in more than one language. 07:36:29 but i was just having to explain to someone today why it would cost us a month to do introspection of structures in C++ 07:36:30 toast-opt: feel free to use my phrasing, but I'd rather you used it as a statement of *your* opinion. 07:36:33 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:36:46 Ralith - yes, that's what i meant :-) 07:37:07 okay then! 07:37:07 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:37:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:18 -!- TDT` [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:21 oh man, I think I ate one too many mini orange muffins ;) 07:38:34 TDT` [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:11 bytecolor: There is no such a thing as `too many muffins'. ;) 07:39:17 you can never have too many muffins 07:39:22 ^^ 07:39:35 Nice. 07:40:13 -!- rsynnott_ [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:40:49 -!- levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42:11 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:43:12 had a coworker ask to borrow PCL. cool. "why are you interested, though?" 07:43:37 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:43:39 "oh, I'm reading Art of the metaobject protocol, and was having trouble reading the lisp code in it" 07:43:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:44:07 either a genius or tool ;) 07:44:35 i still havent' finished AotMOP, so we'll see in a few months when i get PCL back 07:45:41 I'm still having fun learning what twisted things I can do with methods 07:45:58 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:47:01 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-jvprlyrbknspgyye] has joined #lisp 07:47:38 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:47:57 honestly, i find myself reaching for objects far less than in C++ 07:48:14 well, far less in C++ these days too. C++0x lambda goodness :-) 07:48:50 in another 20 years, maybe it'll merge with Lisp 07:49:58 Really? Another 20 years of C++? 07:50:03 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:50:06 nod, boost has a lot of lispy idioms added, I found quite a few playing with the Spirit 2 parser framework 07:51:25 -!- RustyWheeler [~kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has left #lisp 07:52:04 they wrote an embeded scripting language for spirit in the likeness of scheme as well. I think I had a little to do with the decision too lean towards a lisp-like language. ;) 07:52:22 well, NaCl and other VM systems might make all those memory allocation bugs less scary 07:52:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75474f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:11 see there is something I just can not understand. It seems most languages are incrementally adding what common lisp already does. So why not just use cl? Not a loaded question, just thinking out loud. 07:54:28 it really is a good question 07:54:30 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:54:51 bytecolor: I already said it. ;) 07:55:38 there's a language, D, that tries to improve over C++. adds GC, a bunch of functional constructs, etc. 07:55:55 it supports some metaprogramming -- you can call D code at compile time 07:56:11 bytecolor: personally, i think it's like that because it's quite hard for lisp to get along with unix 07:56:12 and you can generate program code at compile time... as strings (ugh) 07:56:35 toast-opt: nod, there was a fellow on the Spirit mailing list that used to praise D a lot. I never gave it a go personally, though. 07:56:37 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:17 HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has joined #lisp 07:57:22 Dodek: you mean *without* unix? 07:57:36 rsynnott_ [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:57:41 levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:57:42 the only thing I count against Lisp is the lack of a dot operator -- saying 'v.get x' saves a lot of typing over 'vector-get v x' 07:58:07 no, i mean with. lisp and unix both has fundamentally different philosophies. what is "unix way", most commonly is far from "lisp way", and vice versa 07:58:14 toast-opt: nod, I'm still getting used to that idiom 07:58:27 Dodek: ah 07:59:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:06 of course you could 'add' foo.bar syntax if you were really bored ;) 07:59:17 byte - clojure already does that 07:59:27 (. v get x) i think 08:00:16 toast-opt: you can have (v.get x), if you want 08:00:23 ah, you're right 08:00:23 just write a library 08:00:28 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:37 or (.get v x) as well 08:00:44 I just can not dig java, I tried it a couple times. It's just not for me 08:00:57 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:00:57 but i think you'll find yourself not liking it even before you finish it 08:01:09 and you'll be happy with current syntax 08:01:11 :) 08:02:19 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:04 at least one thing is attractive about clojure, and it has nothing to do with the langage. clojure has access to a mountain of java code, including GUI. 08:03:16 yeah, there's that 08:03:40 isn't it the case with abcl as well? 08:03:47 but armed bear common lisp looked pretty good too, and then you also have access to all of the common lisp libs 08:03:50 i never used that, but i guess it should be possible 08:03:55 doh, i should be less verbose 08:04:01 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:20 abcl is common lisp 'implemented' in java, correct? 08:04:27 I run both OSX and Win -- abcl gave the most consistent experience across the two platforms 08:04:48 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:04:51 well, i think abcl is written in lisp. but yeah, it runs on the jvm 08:05:19 i think it self bootstraps, with the only java code being the class loader components 08:05:32 ah 08:06:00 but i might also be making that up. 08:06:06 don't quote me 08:06:11 ahaha 08:06:40 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:06:45 ah, I'm into sbcl and I don't see me switching any time soon 08:08:28 right ABCL you get both the mountain of java code and much much of the common lisp 08:08:48 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:00 some little things not runing i guess like Clozzet 08:09:17 Clozzet ? 08:09:26 help my spelling someone 08:09:37 closette ? 08:09:46 there we go.. it hing 08:10:03 french lisp? ;) 08:10:05 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 08:11:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:12:59 le lisp? 08:13:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:13:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:14:06 -!- levene_ [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14:37 my goal is to get http://dwim.hu/project/hu.dwim.partial-eval runing on ABCL 08:14:59 le lisp: http://web.archive.org/web/20050207025353/http://www.greyc.ismra.fr/~marie/Web-Lisp/Lisp.html 08:15:11 need Closset operational though 08:15:20 needs Closett operational though 08:15:30 ooo, i see partial eval in the title 08:16:07 toast-opt: i meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Lisp 08:16:44 inria, that's the OCaml folks, right? 08:17:02 oh, wait, looks like they have a varied lot of PL projects 08:17:44 wow, didn't realize they were the folks behind Pharo too. thx 08:18:27 hdurer [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-maflbkyeijpcfpzo] has joined #lisp 08:18:28 dmiles_afk: throw the lib related issues you meet at me, maybe i can short-cut things 08:18:29 dmiles: page doesn't render for me 08:19:20 toast-opt: gotta click arround a bit to find parts of a renedfering link yeah ; ) 08:19:26 toast-opt: which browser? btw, this is only interesting part: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi 08:19:30 ok, thx 08:19:33 -!- hdurer [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-maflbkyeijpcfpzo] has quit [Changing host] 08:19:34 hdurer [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 08:20:03 indeed last url much easier 08:20:12 attila_lendvai: firefox here 08:20:56 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.2; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) 08:21:07 we should take more care of that poor site, but no time... if the same bug shows up on the project we'll fix it finally 08:22:18 can anybody send me an email encoded in windows-1252 fir subject that is something like "Many  !!" ? 08:22:21 although, the install guide on dwim.hu can be useful for partial copy-pasting... 08:23:01 this machine is begging for a reboot.. back n 4 minutes 08:23:11 i'd like if someone sent me "many " 08:23:22 but maybe i'll get time to wrastle with partial-eval 08:23:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:24:55 -!- billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-188-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:26:54 stassats, I only need it for decoding testing burposes. Thought I'd like much euros too :P 08:28:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:38 -!- hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:44 hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:36:53 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:39:18 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:43:01 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:03 akamaus [~maus@95.106.31.33] has joined #lisp 08:43:20 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:23 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:32 hello Xach 08:43:33 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-181-25.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:44:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:50:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:48 -!- chrnybo` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:56:20 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.95.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:56:20 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-3-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:46 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:53 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:28 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-37-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:59:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:04:43 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:11 what does this mean ? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/parsing.html#character-encodings-0 is it that MS is dictating standard ? 09:07:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:01 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:11 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:25:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:28:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:28:35 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:31:02 GAH 09:31:23 I so can't make it to Berlin on 1 June :( 09:31:43 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35:14 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:16 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:38:21 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:52 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:40:11 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:17 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:43:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:47:01 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 09:47:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mtmeiccqqpoznone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:48:16 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:48:52 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:21 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:50:19 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:40 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:34 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 09:55:19 faridcmi [~afrounef@41.104.68.25] has joined #lisp 10:04:10 can't get no robots 10:04:46 lispcl is awfull, it doesn't even install 10:04:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xngkkzlsaissbauc] has joined #lisp 10:05:10 and neither player nor stage work correctly 10:07:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:08:37 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA94DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 10:08:44 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:10:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:16 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:35 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:12:53 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:15:12 -!- faridcmi [~afrounef@41.104.68.25] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:19:13 wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.45] has joined #lisp 10:19:30 vonli [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 10:19:31 OK, so I've found a library that sets extensions:*ignore-floating-point-underflow* to t. 10:19:49 But this doesn't exist in SBCL, so is there an equivalent? 10:20:30 sb-int:with-float-traps-masked 10:21:05 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:22 stassats: That's a macro, though. 10:22:54 it is indeed 10:23:10 So I need to stick the entirety of the code inside it? 10:23:22 Or just call everything with it? 10:24:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B9F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:10 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:30:48 billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:26 Phantom_Hoover: M-. and C-c ret is your friend in slime 10:35:51 For what purpose...? 10:36:21 finding definitions and macro expansion respectively 10:36:58 R12 [~mar01@adsl-137-211-192-81.adsl2.iam.net.ma] has joined #lisp 10:37:29 -!- R12 [~mar01@adsl-137-211-192-81.adsl2.iam.net.ma] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:02 What do I pass as the traps argument? 10:38:59 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:39:15 billitch1 [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:21 -!- billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:26 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.32] has joined #lisp 10:40:08 Also, M-. doesn't work for the macro. 10:42:32 you'll need the source for that (i guess) 10:42:58 but you can just wrap your code in that macro, then C-c RET with the point just after the macro's closing paren 10:43:51 (i think this is not new to you) 10:44:31 Yes, I get the macro-expansion. 10:45:08 But, like most Lisp-related things, the documentation is absent 10:45:26 What are float-traps? 10:45:31 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 10:45:47 because reading the code is more effective than reading any outdated documentation 10:45:49 It's an internal macro and hence its documentation comes in form of comments 10:47:20 Bah, I only have the binary package. 10:47:28 *Phantom_Hoover* goes and looks for source 10:47:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:51:20 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:09 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-216-12.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:35 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:55:43 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 magius_pendragon [~magius@cpe-065-190-135-078.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:40 I have a question about handler-bind and handler-case. I want to use handler-bind to select restarts for some errors, and handler-case to ignore inputs that cause any other error. Would I want to wrap handler-case in the handler-bind or the other way around? 10:58:49 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:28 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 11:01:05 It depends 11:01:10 Probably the other way around 11:01:11 if you have to use handler-bind, just stick to it, no need to use both 11:01:34 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:01:56 billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:31 That depends, too 11:02:31 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:39 Lovely I feel helpful! 11:02:55 pmd: for some reason I didn't think about that. Should it have worked to put (handler-case (handler-bind stuff) more stuff)? 11:03:10 tcr1: I appreciate the insight anyway 11:03:14 Maybe you can paste what you're actually trying to achieve? 11:03:55 yup gimme a sec 11:04:54 (handler-case (handler-bind ((some-condition #'continue)) ..body..) (some-other-condition (c) (frob1 c) (frob2 c))) may be it 11:04:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/100565 11:05:30 I wasn't sure if it was the nesting or if I needed to scope 'close-list in the find-restart since it's in a different package 11:05:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:06:01 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:22 but the error-count was the same as before I added in the handler-bind 11:06:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:06:51 magius_pendragon: Don't handler-case on condition 11:07:09 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.95] has joined #lisp 11:07:30 You also do not need a progn in a handler-case clause 11:07:32 tcr1: I originally handler-case'd on error, but it was still throwing me into the debugger for some stuff. I want to just ignore all input that would jump to debugger 11:07:40 magius_pendragon: to tell you the truth, other than using condition to handle every error (including out of memory errors) that seems fine 11:07:41 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:11 there's no problem in nesting handler-(bind|case) 11:08:20 pmd: could it be package issues? because it didn't go into the bind clause 11:08:43 sure, but you'd probably get a style-warning or warning 11:08:46 by convention serious-condition is the superclass of all conditions signaled with error 11:08:55 if sexp-parser:missing-close-paren is not actually a known type 11:09:42 tcr1: I defcondition'ed missing-close-paren in package sexp-parser, and exported it. Should I have done something different? 11:09:52 attila_lendvai: thanks, didn't know about that one 11:09:53 no that sounds ok 11:10:57 magius_pendragon: do (condition (c) (format t "~&CAUGHT ~S: ~A~%" c c) in the handler-case 11:11:07 then you'll see what condition is actually signalled 11:11:21 you can also set *break-on-signals* to t 11:12:22 tcr1: I will if I have to, but i'm looking at 136k calls w/ 26k errors, so the output is pretty cluttered 11:13:02 not familiar with the ~& format directive...? 11:14:03 pmd: I should be able to change the progn to lambda, and move the whole condition sexp into the handler-bind bindings right? get rid of handler-case all together? 11:16:10 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 11:16:14 Good afternoon! 11:17:01 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:21:07 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:23 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 11:21:31 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 11:21:32 hi spiaggia 11:23:22 When I removed the handler-case, it's now throwing me into the debugger every time, but it is catching sexp-parser:missing-close-paren 11:23:50 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:24:30 aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:47 magius_pendragon: well... 11:25:47 magius_pendragon: let it be with the (handler-case (handler-bind ...)) nested, it'll be more readable than a (tag (handler-bind ... (go ) ...)) 11:26:11 (or, just forget what i told you before) 11:27:10 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:29:15 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:35 pmd: I've annotated the paste with what it is now 11:29:39 magius_pendragon: moving a handler-case to a handler-bind, you have to make the jump yourself, because if you simply return, the debugger will do its thing 11:29:46 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:29:52 block/return-from sounds better than a tagbody 11:29:53 pmd: ooh 11:30:42 attila_lendvai: I'd be suspect using return-from since the function that's throwing the condition is a 2-way mutual recursion 11:31:41 clhs handler-case 11:31:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_hand_1.htm 11:31:47 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:49 pmd: I knew there was a reason I was using handler-case in the first place 11:32:16 pmd: just didn't know what it was ;). I had it stuck in my head that handler-case was better for jumping out of the whole function stack 11:32:40 pmd: handler-case goes outside the handler-bind, yes? 11:33:36 magius_pendragon: yes, look at the equivalent examples in clhs handler-case 11:34:38 magius_pendragon: you can do everything with just handler-bind, but because CL is not scheme, there are some (useless*) macros that just wrap syntax 11:34:50 * useless in the point of view of schemers 11:35:12 handler-case is one of those handy macro 11:36:42 hell, macros are mostly about syntax and/or patterns 11:37:13 -!- akamaus [~maus@95.106.31.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:25 indeed 11:37:49 though it still doesn't explain why the handler-bind clauses aren't working 11:37:58 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:15 hello spiaggia 11:39:38 hey mvilleneuve, what's up? 11:43:03 -!- dreacu666 [~dreacu666@79.112.78.67] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:43:11 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:26 spiaggia: I saw your messages about string-related features in SICL, maybe we could start with a (potentially) naive implementation, and refine it later once the compiler works? 11:43:39 mvilleneuve: Yes, absolutely. 11:43:43 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-171-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:46:34 spiaggia: do you think some code looking like what's in Hash-Tables would be good enough as a starting point? 11:46:40 What does "deleting unreachable code" mean? 11:47:48 it means you have useless s-exp in your source 11:47:50 mvilleneuve: Yes, I think so. I haven't looked into it in detail. 11:48:03 mvilleneuve: But once I do, I will give you comments about it. 11:48:20 any elephant dev in here ? 11:48:27 Phantom_Hoover: it means the code will never be executed, so the compiler deletes it 11:48:47 pmd: somewhere in all my messing around it seems to have started working. Thanks 11:56:40 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:42 spearalot [~spearalot@host213-123-170-251.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:42 -!- magius_pendragon [~magius@cpe-065-190-135-078.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:00:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:53 _8david [~user@port-92-195-31-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:49 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:05:54 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:08:05 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2003FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:00 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-31-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:14:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p67fbbb.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:58 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8EB4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:38 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xngkkzlsaissbauc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xymxsisbwkdvtmrv] has joined #lisp 12:25:18 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 12:31:08 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:32:40 dlandau [~dlandau@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 lisppaste: ehlo 12:34:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/100566 12:34:17 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:23 Can anyone shed some light on that pathname oddity on sbcl? 12:35:42 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:00 -!- rsynnott_ is now known as rsynnott 12:38:00 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:40:25 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 12:42:37 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:50 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ce6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:22 -!- hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:51:00 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-182-139.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:52:05 <_8david> tcr1: broken escaping when the pathname gets printed 12:52:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:55 sb-ext:parse-native-namestring and parse-namestring give different results 12:53:31 <_8david> yes, but that's not the point, I think. copy&paste the pathname a couple of times to see how the backslashes go from four to two to none. 12:54:05 maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has joined #lisp 12:55:15 (parse-namestring (namestring (parse-namestring "/tmp/test/foo\\\\bar.dat"))) => #P"/tmp/test/foobar.dat" 12:55:19 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 *_8david* takes that back 12:56:08 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 <_8david> actually, I don't take it back. I still think it's the printing that is incorrect. 12:59:03 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 12:59:32 <_8david> If you look at the PATHNAME-NAME, the pathname gets printed with the same number of backslashes as the PATHNAME-NAME has in its printed representation. 12:59:48 <_8david> But a (non-native) namestring should have double that. 13:00:13 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 oh huh, I just learnt that my whole DEFUN-redefining hack is unnecessary because SBCL's TRACE already does conditional tracing 13:03:44 reading docs helps 13:04:30 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:06:00 mathrick: can you link me to that specific doc? 13:06:22 pmd: sure, (describe #'trace) 13:07:04 benny [~benny@i577A756D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:59 pmd: also http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Macro-common_002dlisp_003atrace 13:08:21 what I needed was :CONDITION-AFTER 13:09:36 mathrick: thx 13:10:49 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:12:38 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:12:57 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-53-214.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:10 ello 13:14:19 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:17 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 13:15:45 akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.107] has joined #lisp 13:16:47 Jabberwock [~jens@p508ED928.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:17 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:46 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@p508ECDF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:53 mathrick, Just a wee FYI, if you do C-c C-d d you can get a very good description of functions etc. 13:25:11 Might save you having to do (describe #'whatever) 13:25:14 Guthur: I know, that's what I use. But (describe foo) is better for IRC 13:25:27 ok, No probs 13:25:42 and C-c C-d C-d is easier to type, you don't need to unpress C- before the last d :) 13:25:47 -!- TDT` [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:49 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:59 mathrick, nope not here 13:26:10 it's as I typed 13:26:21 no, mathrick is right 13:26:28 Guthur: you may need a non-ancient slime 13:26:34 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:44 attila_lendvai, I have a quite recent slime 13:27:53 I need to up my code-reading foo 13:28:20 I have slime 2010-05-01 13:28:36 though reading the code for a Lisp -> Java translator is fun nevertheless, especially when it uses 0 docstrings 13:28:43 Oldish, not ancient though 13:29:00 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:29:20 Guthur: mine is not newer, and the optional C- for the last keypress has been there for as long as I've been using SLIME 13:29:27 which is 3 years I think 13:29:42 Well no one said it was optional, hehe 13:30:05 I did, implicitly 13:30:07 it's not optional, it's just two different keybindings for the same command 13:30:13 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:26 stassats: the end effect is the same though 13:31:02 but i need to nitpick on something 13:31:50 ans [~user@84.41.90.123] has joined #lisp 13:32:11 stassats: oh sure, don't mind me 13:32:12 *horze* is away: My computer is sleepy ...zzz 13:32:18 -!- horze [~kim@c-8e0272d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 13:32:28 Joreji [~thomas@67-148.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:32:38 *mathrick* hates people with away announcer scripts 13:33:18 mathrick: did you say this through an announcer script? 13:33:19 davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has joined #lisp 13:34:07 stassats: nope, but horze did 13:34:45 one of these days I need to fix up SLIME's CPC completion code 13:35:04 my own hack I did to get that for elisp seems to be behaving much better in practice 13:37:28 aw [~aw@141.76.6.142] has joined #lisp 13:38:11 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:00 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 13:41:16 the latest iolib is failing to compile for me... Invalid initialization argument :SONAME in call for class #. 13:41:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:42:46 pjb [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:42 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:44:04 pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has joined #lisp 13:44:49 -!- Jabberwock [~jens@p508ED928.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:45:40 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:47:27 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:47 Andrii_Torba [~user@ll-2.209.223.85.sovam.net.ua] has joined #lisp 13:49:47 How can i change nth element of list? 13:49:58 (setq ddd '(1 2 3)) 13:50:44 (setq (nth 2 ddd) )?? 13:50:44 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-182-139.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:53 (setf (nth 1 ddd) 777) 13:51:08 Andrii_Torba: forget about setq, just use setf all the time. 13:51:19 thanks alot 13:51:52 Is there any example or client app in CL that reads emails via IMAP ? 13:53:02 dlowe: pull cffi? 13:53:29 attila_lendvai: I'm using the latest stable? 13:54:03 dlowe: i use the head from http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/darcs/cffi 13:54:11 and i'm on iolib head 13:54:11 hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-82-198.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:54:34 hrm, almost on head. i'll pull both of them to double check 13:54:54 it's our own lispy version of DLL hell 13:56:13 well, dependencies will always be a headache in big systems 13:56:41 kiuma: the original, i think. 13:56:56 dlowe: cffi and iolib head seems to work fine here 13:57:17 kiuma: sorry, apparently it was in interlisp 13:57:45 -!- yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:53 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-82-198.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:44 attila_lendvai: yeah, that was the issue 13:59:53 Xach, using java libs is the thing I want to avoid at any cost, but the only thing I've been able to test is mel-base, then when it's time to read the message body, the stream is not in a usable format 14:00:00 attila_lendvai: does iolib really qualify as a big system? :p 14:00:27 kiuma: You could always write Lisp code that does what you want. 14:01:43 Xach: you mean implementing the whole IMAP RFC ? :) 14:01:44 yep, I could do everything , but it's somewhat to start from 0 or nearly 14:02:50 blandest, mel-base implements a bit, but extractions need to be managed, they are not 'ready to use' 14:03:05 blandest: It'd be more interesting than the current frequent requests for someone else to tell him where to download a pre-existing solution. 14:03:19 Well obviously you probably don't have to implement the server side of IMAP 14:03:36 So just get working on an IMAP client, and tell us when you are done, hehe 14:03:44 :P 14:03:46 Also, Lisp lets you write software faster. So you might already be done by the time you find what you need. 14:04:29 I agree, but it usually depends on what the application needs to do 14:04:33 also, IMAP isn't that complicated of a protocol (it's a sweet one, IMHO, with all that async. support) 14:04:40 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:43 i'd go with "implement what you need" 14:04:44 I was checking a solution based on mel-base + cl-mime 14:04:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:05:32 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:1220:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 14:05:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:40 Xach: the complexity of IMAP comes from the utter brokenness of the RFC as well as all the implementations out there 14:06:03 that's the category of software that's slow to write because the problem domain is stupid, and Lisp won't help you much 14:06:06 mathrick: RFC broken? Care to elaborate? 14:06:40 IMAP was always the protocol I had the least issues with when it came to email... 14:06:51 Hooking UW IMAP is probably done in a hour or so tho, with the proper tools. Then you only have to wrap up the API to be lisp friendly, but that part is easy and fun compared to implementing all of the rest of the bullshit. :) 14:06:59 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:1220:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:03 p_l: sure. For instance, it assigns unique IDs to messages that are valid for the duration of the validity of "session token" generated by the server. And the server can make a new token whenever it feels like, say when you connect. 14:07:16 which means your IDs are not IDs anymore 14:07:31 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 and you need to pull everything again and try to match it against what you remember of your inbox from the last session 14:07:44 dlowe: use CFFI HEAD 14:07:51 it's completely retarded and in no way useful 14:08:14 jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has joined #lisp 14:08:25 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:08:59 p_l: in general, it's stupid and/or vague precisely in those places that matter for interop 14:10:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:12:43 dlowe: well, it's about 10K lines of code. big for an opensource library, perhaps 14:16:35 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:16 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2003FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20:24 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.165] has joined #lisp 14:22:17 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:19 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:22:39 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2003FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hir.is] has joined #lisp 14:23:07 is there something for emacs that indents lambda-lists better? like, if you make a newline after &key argument, it'll indent at argument instead of a column after &key? 14:26:12 <_8david> pmd: use ELI instead of SLIME? ;-) 14:26:38 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:45 Hmm, I am trying to run "git clone git://common-lisp.net/projects/alexandria/alexandria.git", but I get "The remote end hung up unexpectedly." Am I doing something wrong? Is there a c-l.net problem? 14:26:51 _8david: yes, ELI does that... but... i want to use slime 14:27:12 _8david: even if it's just to be able to have several running images under the same emacs 14:27:48 isn't alexandria using darcs? 14:28:08 stassats: according to http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ it is using git now, and offers that command line 14:28:23 this has greatly enhanced my habits. i started to use emacs as a server, and added an explorer context menu to "edit with emacs" (similar to "edit with vim") that either runs emacs if there is no server or reuses the existing one 14:28:41 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 14:29:29 Xach: http://common-lisp.net/r/projects/alexandria/alexandria.git works 14:29:48 stassats: thanks. 14:29:54 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 stassats: Now I wonder if the web page is in error, or if common-lisp.net is having a problem, or what. 14:30:10 though, somebody should fix it anyway, since git:// is faster 14:30:31 _8david: well, thanks anyway 14:30:47 Xach: seems like the latter 14:30:48 _8david: have you ever wanted to make eli be able to support multiple connections in one emacs? 14:32:25 ssh:// also works (if you have an account) 14:33:04 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:35:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:59 *Xach* tries emailing clo-devel 14:37:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:39 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-77-125.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:43:43 -!- maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:35 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:19 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:21 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:45 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:46:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:46:22 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:31 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:49:06 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.142] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 14:53:54 dlowe: re system complexity. where do you draw a line? from one point of view iolib and linux is in one system, because the former provides an interface to the latter... and cffi is merely handling some accidental complexity caused by the impedance mismatch between them... 14:54:39 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 <_8david> attila_lendvai: can you point me to the place in the code where a PERSISTENT-ASSOCIATION injects the PERSISTENT-ASSOCIATION-END-DIRECT-SLOT-DEFINITIONs into the association end point PERSISTENT-CLASS? 14:55:56 mhd [~mhd@pool-173-48-213-235.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:40 _8david: err, it sounds too simple, but have you macroexpanded defassociation? 14:56:58 uh-huh, are there any circumstances where PRINT-OBJECT could be defined for a type implicitly? 14:57:03 <_8david> yeah, I've macroexpanded it and also TRACEd ensure-class, and I'm as mystefied as I was before doing it :-) 14:57:33 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:33 I'm trying to track where it's defined, and SBCL points to a macro invocation, but when I expand it there's no trace of PRINT-OBJECT being touched 14:57:49 <_8david> I'm seeing such dslotds in CLASS-DIRECT-SLOTS, but I can't find a place where the dslotd gets passed to ensure-class or so. 14:58:04 _8david: oh, I see you're having the same fun. Welcome to the club 14:58:05 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:58:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:51 _8david: i haven't seen the internals or perec much, but how about update-persistent-class-for-association-definition ? 14:59:18 err, no, that's not the injection 14:59:39 -!- benny [~benny@i577A756D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:53 _8david: shared-initialize-around-persistent-class ? 15:01:20 it invokes call-next-method with :direct-slots (append (process-direct-slot-definitions direct-slots) (association-direct-slot-definitions class)) 15:01:43 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:03 <_8david> oh, thanks, that looks promising 15:02:05 *Xach* is surprised that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironclad_(Common_Lisp) exists 15:02:17 The Wiki page, then? 15:02:47 you can always suggest it for deletion! 15:02:48 Wow. That's one hell of a stub. 15:03:32 i'd do that, but i'm not playing in the english wikipedia 15:03:52 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:03:55 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:58 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.178.113] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:44 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:06:20 somewhat random question: anyone have a good pointer to how to run SBCL program as a Unix daemon? 15:06:45 specifically, we've been having trouble with sbcl wanting to write stuff at the console when it's supposed to be a daemon. 15:07:15 rpg: redirect output somewhere 15:07:33 p_l: output from errors seems to creep through anyway. 15:07:43 rpg: did you redirect all descriptors? 15:08:00 even with disable-debugger and disable-ldb, when sbcl is crashing, it seems to leak stuff to the console. 15:08:12 p_l: as far as I can tell, yes. 15:08:19 and *debug-io*? 15:08:56 stassats: you mean redirect that, as well as stdout and stderr? 15:09:19 i thought you were redirecting on the lisp side 15:10:36 stassats: no, unix daemon, so we've been redirecting in daemon bash script 15:10:50 rpg: using this http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.build;a=summary we build executables. then 15:11:01 rpg: I'd be interested if you get that solved. I tried for quite some time to get that, but was never really successful. 15:11:15 using these http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.environment;a=tree;f=/etc/service-scripts we run those executables 15:11:37 I was trying on Linux. 15:11:47 here http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.home;a=tree;f=/bin there's an actual example usage 15:12:25 attila_lendvai: thanks very much. I will look at those. 15:12:36 Guthur: Our stuff is also on linux 15:13:59 rpg: here http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.meta-model;a=headblob;f=/source/production.lisp you can find the interesting chunk of the exe toplevel lambda. and here http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.home;a=headblob;f=/source/server.lisp there's an actual toplevel function using the former 15:14:39 benny [~benny@i577A725E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:40 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 15:15:00 rpg: clbuild lisp --eval '(asdf:load-system :swank)' --eval '(setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* nil)' --eval '(swank:create-server :dont-close t)' >/dev/null 2>&1 15:15:59 p_l: that looks similar to what we're doing, except we don't use clbuild. We are additionally doing --disable-debugger and --disable-ldb, and redirecting streams to a log file instead of /dev/null. 15:16:22 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:32 dump an image with swank initialization as startup function and you don't need to deal with stdin (I left it because normally it would execute repl) 15:17:05 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:17:19 <_8david> I don't think SBCL's SB-SYS:*TTY* aka *TERMINAL-IO* actually goes to stdout. 15:17:23 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:17:24 afaik most people use something like detachtty even if they want to run a daemon 15:17:26 <_8david> It goes directly to /dev/tty. 15:17:59 <_8david> So if you either SETF SB-SYS:*TTY* or dup2 the real stdout over its fd, that should help. 15:18:00 _8david: /dev/tty won't work if you redirect it and it is signaled to the code, iirc 15:18:02 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:18:27 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:56 WePac [~bubble@p54AA4096.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:05 <_8david> p_l: I don't understand what you mean. 15:19:10 should i be worried if i don't follow this tty stuff? we use start-stop-daemon 15:19:21 <_8david> rpc said he's redirecting stdout and stderr, and I'm pointing to a case where SBCL ignores said redirection. 15:19:38 _8david: it's just that I recall something about /dev/tty not allowing itself to be open if you aren't attached to a tty 15:19:51 p_l what do you mean by "it is signaled"? "it" is ? 15:19:59 rpg: "error" 15:20:10 <_8david> p_l: oh yes, that's true. But if rpg is starting from a shell script, I doubt he has detached from the tty. 15:20:10 i.e. open of /dev/tty should fail, iirc 15:20:11 p_l: ah, thaks. 15:20:33 _8david: I will check the bash script for detachtty... 15:20:41 <_8david> Arguably a process that hasn't detached from the tty isn't a daemon at all. 15:21:31 rpg: IMHO, if you want to do all that daemon-mode stuff, you should implement necessary routines in your image init function 15:22:49 that is, close the descriptors, then fork 15:22:52 p_l: we actually have a bash script that can use more than one different lisp impl, so I'd /prefer/ to do that in the bash script, but could move to the image init, if necessary. 15:23:18 doing a fork in lisp seems very exciting... 15:23:20 rpg: if you make progress i'd be interested in where you get to. maybe we can port over something useful to our toplevel function 15:23:51 <_8david> rpg: I think there's also a setsid(1) program that you could use in a shell if you don't want to call setsid(2) yourself 15:23:56 attila_lendvai: I'll let you know if we have any luck. Have to compare your scripts with ours, and follow up the detachtty suggestion --- I don't see anyone doing this here. 15:24:18 <_8david> (Personally I prefer to write this kind of wrapper in C. More robust than shell.) 15:24:36 _8david: thanks. I will check that, too. 15:24:41 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:25:11 _8david: Not my code, actually --- someone else wrote the bash scriptage, but wants me to keep sbcl from blatting to screen... 15:25:21 -!- billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:24 billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:43 Is there a Lisp logo? 15:25:57 A few. None official. 15:26:10 rpg: do you need that portable? 15:26:16 I've wanted to have an application launcher for Slime for ages, but I can't find a decent icon. 15:26:49 p_l: ideally portable --- we have been going back and forth b/w sbcl and acl, and between linux and macs. 15:26:56 slime has a logo 15:27:14 http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.php && http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html 15:27:37 rpg: also note that our solution is only tested on sbcl, although i don't think there are any showstoppers if saving executables with a toplevel lambda is supported 15:28:13 attila_lendvai: we have somewhat different code for ACL and SBCL in the init function and builder, but that level of portability is already done. 15:28:40 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:29:18 would IOlib work properly on acl? 15:29:28 no 15:29:32 maybe 15:29:36 only on acl 64bit 15:29:50 heh 15:29:54 gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 15:29:57 <_8david> luis pointed me to a cffi "long long" patch, but I haven't tried it yet 15:30:31 _8david: the long long patch doesn't work for function arguments and return values 15:30:49 only for emulating long long in struct access 15:30:59 <_8david> bah. 15:31:39 npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has joined #lisp 15:32:09 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:33:06 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-jvprlyrbknspgyye] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:29 hi! is there a way to protect port 4005 of swank? I want to have swank running on remote server, but how to make it securely? 15:34:16 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xymxsisbwkdvtmrv] has left #lisp 15:34:43 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host213-123-170-251.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:34:45 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:46 p_l, _8david, attila_lendvai: thanks so much to all of you! I have a lot of directions to follow up now, and I really appreciate the help. 15:34:49 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:52 npoektop: by default it only listens on localhost. if you want to access it remotely, you have to e.g. use a tunnel. 15:35:17 npoektop: you can also, iirc, create a "cookie" file, and protect it with file permissions, and slime won't accept connections that don't use the right value from the cookie. 15:35:52 fe[nl]ix: we have had some luck doing iolib-like portability, but came to it topsy-turvy --- we have been emulating the ACL socket facilities in SBCL... 15:36:08 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 15:36:23 rpg: i remember all my struggling to put together anything useful, not to mention reusability (we use those from several projects). so with those memories i very much hope you'll have less headaches (with this cimpletely accidental complexity) 15:36:42 rpg: I can try writing you a general "daemon init" function for both SBCL and ACL :) 15:36:56 _8david: fe[nl]ix is talking about something else 15:37:37 _8david: that patch does work for function arguments, that's the point. long long emulation in mem-ref is already in CFFI. 15:38:00 p_l: we have written our own sort of boot script that's portable, and invoke it from front ends that differently handle command-line arguments for the two implementations (wclas on sbcl, built-in stuff on ACL)... 15:38:08 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:38:37 *rpg* goes off to skim boot-script.lisp... 15:38:45 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:39:14 Can you make arbitrary Lisp objects callable? 15:40:41 luis: and for return values too ? 15:42:17 Xach, ok. I'll try to find smth on that 15:42:24 thank you 15:42:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:45:39 Quick follow-up question: will a saved sbcl lisp image properly handle --disable-debugger and --disable-ldb when restarted? 15:46:36 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 rpg: there's some --save-runtime-options which always confused me. is saves some arguments, but i don't think those two are included... 15:48:40 err, no, it's actually :save-runtime-options for save-lisp-and-die 15:49:56 attila_lendvai: actually, I want the opposite of save-runtime-options --- I want to have those arguments be interpreted by the image when it restarts, so that it can be run either with or without debugger. 15:50:02 Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.226.148] has joined #lisp 15:50:04 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:51:08 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:16 rpg: originally we tried that first, but for some reason ended up having our own arg handling (which includes --disable-debugger and uses :sro t so that sbcl doesn't interfere with the args) 15:51:22 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:51:26 rpg: disable-debugger is handled by the default toplevel function in sbcl 15:51:27 hrm, i *think* it was due to --help 15:51:37 rpg: disable-ldb is handled by the runtime 15:52:08 note: sb-ext:disable-debugger disables ldb, too 15:52:52 attila_lendvai, Xach: thanks. We have been handling disable-debugger ourselves, and using sb-ext:disable-debugger. sounds like that's The Right Thing. 15:53:15 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:53:48 *rpg* may once have known this, and forgotten it. 15:54:35 rpg: fyi, a related sbcl bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/450280 15:54:36 rpg: I found the runtime/toplevel argument handling pretty confusing in sbcl. 15:54:37 btw, I notice that the sbcl manual's function index has no entry for disable-debugger.... 15:54:48 I wonder how easy it would be for me to patch to add that... 15:54:57 -!- pjb [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:13 *rpg* doesn't really understand the way docstrings are transduced into the texinfo... 15:55:26 *attila_lendvai* will add a new bug to launchpad about better runtime option parsing that doesn't capture --help unconditionally 15:56:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:56:12 attila_lendvai: thanks. all the more reason for us to handle --disable-debugger ourselves! 15:59:59 Ah. no docstring on DISABLE-DEBUGGER.... 16:01:04 Is there anything that needs to be said besides "When invoked, this function will turn off both the SBCL debugger AND the LDB." 16:01:08 ? 16:01:15 -!- Andrii_Torba [~user@ll-2.209.223.85.sovam.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:01:15 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-26-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:01:56 jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 16:02:15 Also, does anyone know if ENABLE-DEBUGGER simply is the inverse? There's a comment about the setting of *DEBUG-IO* which I don't fully understand. 16:02:27 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-162-208-66.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:29 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:56 rpg: about the fact that it _used to_ set *debug-io*? 16:03:05 attila_lendvai: Yest. 16:03:10 s/yest/yes/ 16:03:26 imho, that is just noise and shouldn't have been written there 16:03:48 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04:08 Is it possible to make arbitrary objects callable? 16:04:28 rpg: http://paste.lisp.org/+25LQ 16:04:30 attila_lendvai: Do you know if enable-debugger turns the LDB back on, too? I'm afraid I don't know how to reliably force sbcl into the ldb... 16:05:01 p_l: wow. Brilliant! thanks! 16:05:51 rpg: it's very simple, direct translation of canonical UNIX daemon init code 16:06:08 I recommend running it before starting any threads, though 16:06:24 rpg: it turns ldb back on unconditionally 16:06:46 p_l: I can see that now, but don't know the bottom end of sbcl very well; it would have taken me a long time to winkle out the sbcl equivalents of the C code. 16:06:51 attila_lendvai: thanks. 16:06:53 symbole [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 16:07:05 is it possible to use a single loop macro to step across a two dimensional array? Or two nested loops needed? 16:07:12 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:23 I'll try to submit a patch to sbcl-devel with rudimentary docstrings for enable/disable debugger so that they will at least show up in the function index. 16:07:23 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:07:57 p_l: why do you close the io? isn't it useful? we redirect stdout and stderr into a file which came handy several times 16:08:08 attila_lendvai: that's why I marked it as *simple* 16:08:23 attila_lendvai: I didn't bother with writing all redirection code, but it shouldn't be too hard 16:08:30 ahh, ok 16:09:05 attila_lendvai: personally I think most people would have more problems with finding info about fork and setsid than (setf *debug-io* (open-file ...)) ;-) 16:09:53 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:10:10 there's nothing in the rudimentary docstring markup of SBCL that handles cross-references, is there? 16:11:56 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:12:13 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:37 rpg: If you're interested with more, I can do some professional digging of such stuff (for a modest price). For some reason I ended up knowing various strange bits of OS machinery... 16:13:33 milanj [~milanj_@91.150.126.146] has joined #lisp 16:15:22 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@bpcmat07.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:20 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:17:15 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 16:20:43 rpg: fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/586434 16:21:29 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 attila_lendvai: I think we ended up doing some funny stuff with wclas to make this to work. 16:23:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91.150.126.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:23:46 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:24:26 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 16:24:52 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:52 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:28 Fare: why doesn't process-command-line-options use &optional (command-line (get-command-line-arguments)) ? 16:26:57 i don't like optionals, but it's still better than a rather boring mandatory arg 16:28:07 Andrii_Torba [~user@ll-2.209.223.85.sovam.net.ua] has joined #lisp 16:28:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:22 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:35 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:33:19 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:42 fe[nl]ix: doesn't work for return values, no. :) 16:36:36 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:36:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:07 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:54 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@203.82.80.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:39:15 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@92.60.84.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:30 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA4096.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:43 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 -!- akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:12 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:45:48 wiggles [wa6Z4JWenv@2001:470:c1ae::1] has joined #lisp 16:50:23 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hir.is] has quit [Quit: Beep.] 16:54:14 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 16:55:03 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:58:49 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:39 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:16 -!- Andrii_Torba [~user@ll-2.209.223.85.sovam.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:02:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-203-214-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:14 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:03:50 HG` [~HG@xdslas019.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:14 WePac [~bubble@p54AA60BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:31 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:39 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslas019.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:51 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:27 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:27 Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:50 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:12:26 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 17:17:50 What actually is the point of the SB!IMPL package. 17:18:40 It is internal, you shouldn't look at it. 17:18:49 (What actually is the point of your intestines?) 17:18:52 Will I go insane? 17:19:13 No, it's just a little untasty, if you're not a surgeon. 17:19:50 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:20:11 Phantom_Hoover: notice that there is a compilation option in sbcl to make it more maleable, so that you can modify stuff in COMMON-LISP with less chances of breaking SB!IMPL. 17:20:15 pjb`: well, if it's SB!IMPL then you probably care about it. SB-IMPL, on the other hand... 17:20:29 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:11 pjb`: what is that option? 17:22:03 :sb-fluid 17:22:09 See base-target-features.lisp-expr 17:22:18 oh that 17:22:42 It's a nice option I find. 17:22:46 i guess it will result in more breakage 17:23:36 Perhaps it could be used to modify READ and have LOAD and COMPILE-FILE inherit the changes? 17:23:39 SB-IMPL is empty for me... 17:23:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:29:38 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 17:39:16 aw [~aw@p5DDA94DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:41 -!- billitch [~billitch@nat-x-filme.x-filme.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:34 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1BDE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:40:45 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 17:43:06 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:43:14 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:43:57 sbcl inserts a newline when I use (y-or-n-p). Is there a way to make it stop from doing that? 17:44:53 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.226.148] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 17:46:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:37 segv [~mb@p54BE6420.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:44 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 17:51:03 didi: perhaps it does that to force the line to be shown on buffering terminals or remote telnet/ssh connections 17:51:09 it: Changing server 17:51:09 #lisp (y-or-n-p "Really") 17:51:09 17:51:15 Oops. 17:51:18 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:18 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:51:18 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:51:35 didi: it doesn't insert a newline after the prompt if you provide it. 17:52:14 pmd: It inserts before the prompt here. 17:52:34 pjb`: Not after, but before. 17:52:41 Yes, but it is allowed to: y-or-n-p is implementation dependant. 17:52:59 pjb`: Yes, I figure. clisp doesn't do that. 17:53:25 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: is grovelling really needed on windows? I would have imagined Windows to be stable enough that API differences or changes wouldn't be an issue. 17:54:09 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@90-145-55-138.bbserv.nl] has joined #lisp 17:54:26 didi: use it portably! Output a newline on all output streams before calling y-or-n-p! 17:54:34 <_8david> Perhaps for 32bit/64bit, but with long being 32 bit, perhaps not even that would be a factor. 17:54:51 _8david: I suppose that people could grovel the relevant values manually 17:55:00 but I still don't trust that 17:55:53 didi: or unportably : rewrite sb-impl::maybe-print-query to DTRT 17:56:15 didi: or, simply : (defun my-y-or-n-p ...) 17:56:51 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:15 But notice that cl:y-or-n-p will do the right thing in a GUI or slime or whatever environment. 17:58:56 sbcl's is a bit iffy 17:59:23 pjb`: Well, I thought that not inserting a newline was the right thing. But I am just learning the thing. 17:59:23 it outputs a bell control character even when the output stream is not a terminal - like in slime 17:59:35 -!- gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 17:59:51 clhs y-or-n-p 17:59:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_y_or_n.htm 17:59:55 didi: IMO, it's a hint you should use the prompt argument. 18:00:19 pjb`: But I am using it. :( Or I think I am. 18:00:47 (y-or-n-p "Do you want some ~A" desert) 18:01:58 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 18:02:11 arguably, sbcl is wrong here 18:02:21 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:02:36 it calls FRESH-LINE either way 18:02:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:02:50 'morning 18:03:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:03:31 drewc: yes, in the spirit, it shouldn't when no control string is given. 18:03:41 the WHEN in MAYBE-PRINT-QUERY should probably be an IF. 18:04:10 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:54 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-86-23.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: reboot] 18:06:02 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10:09 -!- _3b` [foobar@cpe-70-112-86-23.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-148.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:13 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 -!- xristos` is now known as xristos 18:22:11 cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:17 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA94DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 18:22:51 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 18:22:56 -!- cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has left #lisp 18:23:01 cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:20 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:23:28 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:49 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:32 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082C870.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:23 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B8EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:38 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:29:47 Should I expect sb-queue to fail in a recent CVS SBCL build? 18:29:53 on Mac OSX? 18:30:38 abm [~chatzilla@ip68-224-250-139.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:10 -!- errkle [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:25 errkle [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:30 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:32:15 -!- abm [~chatzilla@ip68-224-250-139.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:03 fails because it can't find sb-concurrency, for which there seems to be no .asd file, nor any other .asd defining it. 18:34:05 rpg: I see a sb-concurrency.asd in the tree 18:34:47 fe[nl]ix: sorry to bother you, but would you mind letting me know where? I just did a cvs up and find isn't showing me it... 18:35:42 rpg: http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git?a=tree;f=contrib/sb-concurrency;hb=HEAD 18:36:04 fe[nl]ix: has CVS finally been dropped then? 18:36:27 oh, wait! Never mind. 18:36:27 no, but antifuchs's mirror is semi-official 18:36:31 *rpg* hits head... 18:36:46 I bet I have to tell CVS that I actually want new directories... 18:36:59 btw, since what version is sb-concurrency supposed to be in releases? 18:37:10 rpg: something like that 18:37:20 who thought that making -d not the default was a good idea? 18:37:47 fe[nl]ix: thanks for saving me from my dumb mistake. 18:37:51 -!- vng [~user@123.21.160.215] has quit [Quit: It's time to sleep] 18:37:53 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 18:38:05 Someday pretty soon I need to stop using cvs for this... 18:38:06 -d isn't that much of a problem... try the common lack of proxy support, or when they do, it uses an inane syntax 18:40:11 Arelius` [~user@208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 18:40:13 no linux client I know supports HTTP_PROXY or SOCKS_PROXY environment variables. 18:40:24 Xach: "I wouldn't worry much about spouting nonsense when you learn new things unless you're prone to that already.", heh, nice one. 18:42:27 rpg: add "update -dP" to ~/.cvsrc 18:42:48 hypno: gosh, old stuff.. 18:44:16 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:45:00 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:23 fe[nl]ix: thanks. good suggestion. done. 18:46:09 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 18:47:35 rpg: "cvs -q -z3" and "diff -uwN" are useful too 18:47:51 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:27 fe[nl]ix: I am embarrassed to say that I didn't even know that there WAS a .cvsrc... I don't think I use cvs for anything except sbcl these days, and I don't make heavy duty use for sbcl 18:48:55 *Xach* looks around for that magical slime wish-granting machine, stassats 18:48:55 is there way to get a datastructure i am writing, work with the "~{" directive in format ? 18:49:09 ie iterate over my tree and print it ? 18:49:09 Dawgmatix: if the datastructure is not a list, no. 18:49:17 sigh 18:49:24 Dawgmatix: ~// is the format escape hatch 18:49:56 looks up ~// 18:51:14 http://l1sp.org/cl/~/ 18:52:07 hrm... make-package shouldn't hang sbcl... 18:52:07 thanks :) 18:52:09 rpg: this might be useful for you, then: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/584522/how-to-export-revision-history-from-mercurial-or-git-to-cvs/586225#586225 18:52:15 *drewc* updates and recompiles 18:52:32 beats my manual lookup in the cltl paper book 18:52:48 drewc: make-package in SLIME repl? 18:52:50 p_l: thanks. But I think I should just kill my cvs checkout and switch to git. 18:53:04 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:53:13 I don't have anything that useful in my CVS (just one trivial patch I can email today). 18:53:21 ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has joined #lisp 18:53:26 hello 18:53:39 p_l: in a file using C-c 18:53:39 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@90-145-55-138.bbserv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:54:21 i'm expecting a correctable error as the package exists, but it never comes. 18:54:41 drewc: I found that most package-modifying commands cause such problems with SLIME, but I encountered it rarely... 18:54:52 I suspect it's not SBCL that hangs but SLIME 18:55:29 well, *inferior-lisp* is hung too, and emacs works... makes me suspect it's not SLIME that's hanging, though it could be slime that causes the issues 18:55:47 (ie: SWANK might be hung up somewhere) 18:55:59 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:59 hard to debug if that's the case, innit 18:56:08 -!- Kirklander [~Kirklande@174-143-212-242.static.cloud-ips.com] has left #lisp 18:56:32 i'm having trouble with slime and a fresh build of sbcl this morning. 18:56:51 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:08 oh right, should update my slime as well.... otherwise there's a whole new can o' worms 18:57:10 drewc: it's definitely related to SLIME/SWANK - SBCL without SLIME runs all package-related functions correctly 18:57:17 apart from sb-heapdump, is there any other prior art of saving in memory datastructures to disk ? 18:57:27 i've been getting: The loaded code expects an incompatible layout for class SB-PRETTY:PRETTY-STREAM. 18:57:34 Dawgmatix: what are you trying to do? 18:57:55 which has been happening /w sbcl for a long time, but now it causes slime to fail to start. 18:58:16 Fade: sounds like you have some fasls to nuke 18:58:24 well drewc, i am trying to build a rdf datastore, i am writing code to create indexes over some of my data 18:58:40 minion: tell Dawgmatix about rucksack 18:58:40 i want to be able to save the index structures to disk and back 18:58:41 Dawgmatix: please look at rucksack: Rucksack is a persistence library for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/rucksack 18:58:56 that's what I thought, but this is in a totally new clbuild environment and I nuked everything in ~/.slime/fasls/ 18:59:00 minion: tell Dawgmatix about cl-store 18:59:00 Dawgmatix: please look at cl-store: cl-store is an asdf-installable portable library for serializing and deserializing Common Lisp objects to and from streams. http://www.cliki.net/cl-store 18:59:19 clhs PRINT 18:59:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 18:59:24 CLHS READ 18:59:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_rd.htm 18:59:29 thank you :), i saw read and print 18:59:55 clos objects dont seem to have readeable representations 19:00:22 but cl-store and rucksack sound very much like what i need 19:00:28 no, you need a serializer to get it right 19:00:35 i _love_ rucksack 19:00:50 :) okay 19:01:01 *slyrus_* wonders if the performance problems he was seeing with rucksack a couple years back where ever fixed 19:01:03 your indexes just might build themselves 19:01:04 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:11 awesome 19:01:23 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:23 slyrus_: what was the problem? in my tests rucksack has always been fast. 19:01:25 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:42 hehe my code doesnt need to be fast, as long as it runs eventually 19:02:20 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-187.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:04:49 p_l: yeah, it seems to be a number of package-based operations that will do it. 19:05:01 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 19:06:15 *drewc* is not abusing packages in any way, though not using them quite conventionally either. 19:06:17 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:06:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:45 drewc: the only ones that seem safe are defpackage and in-package, and I only tested them in files lately 19:06:48 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:57 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-uwgyudgvkomhalot] has joined #lisp 19:07:34 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-uwgyudgvkomhalot] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:13 make-package works (once), and then EXPORT throws in into a fit. compiling a new sbcl and slime now, if that doesn't work i dunno :) 19:09:28 drewc: when I tried export this week it would blow in my face 19:09:36 (it's okay when run outside SLIME) 19:10:53 p_l: not the news i want to hear :| 19:11:29 gack 19:15:44 _3b` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 lastest slime and latest sbcl seems to have fixed it 19:18:25 *drewc* shuts up and gets back to hacking 19:18:35 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:32:40 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:03 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 19:33:50 aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:36:24 -!- cbeok [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has left #lisp 19:36:27 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:04 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.165] has joined #lisp 19:37:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:32 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.244.81] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.20.0, SBCL 1.0.38, Clozure CL 1.5 19:44:49 astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-89.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2003FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:46:59 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-171-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:47:01 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:48:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.138] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:09 ehu: Why the #1=etc.? 19:49:23 Phantom_Hoover: CL nerd jokes 19:50:35 What does it do? 19:51:06 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:08 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 19:51:23 Phantom_Hoover: infinitely long list of the symbol 'programmable' 19:51:31 That's a recursive list, isn't it? 19:51:36 Exactly that. :p 19:52:12 marioxcc [~user@200.92.160.181] has joined #lisp 19:53:50 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 19:54:50 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:05 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:40 that's a self-referencing cons 19:56:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ce6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:59 What does the hash notation refer to? 19:57:34 Phantom_Hoover: figuring that out is a right of passage. ;) 19:58:07 ITYM 'rite' 19:58:17 yes, indeed i did 19:58:29 *drewc* slinks back to his hole 19:59:05 hi drewc 19:59:28 hey Xach 20:00:26 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200978.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 drewc: That, too, is a rite of passage. :p 20:01:36 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 20:02:14 drewc: What's your favorite thing besides yaclml? 20:02:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:03:49 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:41 my favorite library in general? right now that would have to be rucksack. 20:05:28 unless my own stuff counts, in which case it's ftw-request-context-dispatcher 20:06:06 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:06:20 fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-70-118.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:07:13 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:07:32 if we're talking even more general, first class functions and macros are really nice tools to have :) 20:07:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:08:08 not that general. 20:08:39 drewc: I'm thinking more about a project that made you wonder "Gee, why doesn't everyone else use and talk about this great thing as much as I do?" 20:10:07 -!- Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:15 cl-difflib isn't something i've heard about in a long time 20:13:25 is something i haven't* 20:13:27 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:14:14 seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:26 iolib doesn't get enough love IMO 20:16:11 qt-hemlock and related projects are interesting to me as well 20:16:13 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:24 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:41 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 20:19:41 -!- Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:43 Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 20:19:45 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 20:19:49 billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-188-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:12 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:27 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:28 -!- wiggles [wa6Z4JWenv@2001:470:c1ae::1] has left #lisp 20:23:31 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.32] has joined #lisp 20:24:51 Is there anyone on line who understands the generation of the SBCL manual from docstrings? 20:25:12 trying to provide a patch, but having a hard time figuring out how to get new docstring into manual. 20:31:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:41 do the function pages from docstrings automagically get slurped, or do we have to @input them by hand? 20:35:42 -!- fallen` [~t@vc-41-26-70-118.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [] 20:38:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:38:24 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 20:39:47 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:02 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:48 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:41:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:41 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 20:41:52 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 20:45:47 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:46:18 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-6B317C66.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:46:41 TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.162.253.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:47:47 -!- mhd [~mhd@pool-173-48-213-235.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:38 maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has joined #lisp 20:55:27 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:56:00 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:13 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:26 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:49 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-77-125.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:03 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-7-184.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:01:06 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-37-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:08 1k loc in my parser, maybe it's time to start breaking it up, eh 21:05:16 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 21:06:23 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:31 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:23 -!- ost [~user@94.188.39.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:07:26 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:07:59 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200978.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:44 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:19 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:11:16 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:04 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:18:33 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 21:23:40 orm [~orm@212.sub-97-129-48.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:45 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:20 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:57 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-11-162.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:29 p_l: I finally have something resembling a working version of LinJ suitable for use with android 21:32:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:33:02 it's supremely brittle and requires inputting many things by hand yet to get the classpath and friends working, but it finally compiles 21:33:20 linj is a very confusing codebase 21:34:04 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:34:19 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:35:12 who else was interested in hacking android with CL? 21:35:12 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:21 mathrick: me me! pick me! 21:35:23 mathrick: link/repo/whatever? 21:35:40 madnificent: :) 21:35:45 mathrick: right now I'm thinking of going with Scala but LinJ working with android would be great 21:35:48 p_l: sec, I'll make a github fork 21:35:54 unless you 21:35:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:00 're fine with a bzr branch 21:36:08 let me check 21:36:10 mathrick: github please :) 21:36:22 mathrick: I can take bzr 21:36:29 I'm meaner than it ;-) 21:36:31 madnificent: I think I'll push it to launchpad just to get some bzr traction in #lisp 21:36:35 mathrick: at least, that would be a plus for me if I need to change something :) 21:36:45 I'm annoyed by git's dominance 21:36:48 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37:06 mathrick, resistance is futile, become a git 21:37:16 nah, I can get by with bzr-git somehow 21:37:22 mathrick: I remember choosing git over bzr some time ago, don't know why anymore. I don't really feel like learning something else if git does such a great job though 21:37:43 By the time I noticed bzr's existence, I was already sold on git & magit.el 21:37:52 mathrick: is there something I should uze bzr for, because git isn't capable of doing that thing? 21:37:56 madnificent: do you know svn? If so, you're right there, because bzr feels like svn, except with a real DVCS part 21:37:57 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:02 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 21:38:06 madnificent: yes, it's called "user interface" 21:38:10 something git completely lacks 21:38:23 git was never meant to have one 21:38:37 Developers were suppose to build that on top of it 21:38:41 unfortunately I like using tools that are more than just someone's ego packaged up 21:39:20 mathrick: nah, it wasn't ego. Git is a very clever tool based on rather old&proven mechanism, on top of which people implemented a DVCS 21:39:34 p_l: with copious amounts of ego in the mix 21:39:40 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:13 mathrick, You could have built the interface on top of Git for us all, hehe 21:40:29 mathrick: At least the ones with the ego did their work well, and remember, it was written to solve a particular system's problem, not for others to use 21:40:44 mathrick: you mean, besides the textual one? (that and gitk and I'm happy... I don't like GUI's) 21:40:46 definitely better than ego in RoR environment 21:40:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:41:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:24 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:35 madnificent: no, I mean the textual one 21:41:52 Guthur: I have a good one already. It's called bzr and comes with a nice DVCS included 21:42:05 to make it funnier, it was written so bare because they actually knew before hand that they will need to build tools out of it (which was proven very shortly with patch-based system built on top of git) 21:42:08 I've never tried bze 21:42:11 bzr* 21:42:37 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:39 I've never came across to many bazaar repos either 21:42:43 to/too 21:42:53 mathrick: could it be that bzr's license was a bit on the strange side? (not open sourced) 21:43:19 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:52 bzr was open sourced from beginning, afaik 21:44:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:20 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:37 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:18 madnificent: no 21:47:48 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-228-89.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:47:54 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA60BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 21:48:13 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:28 *madnificent* wonders why I picked git and not bzr 21:49:38 ^ see, I have a split personality 21:50:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:18 If bzr had been programmed in CL, I would have choosen it. 21:52:38 But since it's written in VisualBasic or something like that... 21:54:01 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:33 mathrick: back to the point: how/where can we get started to own android with CL? 21:55:08 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:55:26 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:58:30 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:53 madnificent: bzr get lp:linj-android 21:58:59 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-26-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:59:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:59:07 gimme a sec to lisppaste the current usage magic 21:59:32 mathrick: and what should I read/try to get something running? I have an emulator environment for froyo on this machine, but haven't tried to dev nor read anything yet 21:59:38 mathrick: super! 21:59:59 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:00:02 madnificent: ant and froyo dev is all you need 22:00:12 or any SDK really 22:02:20 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:40 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:06:55 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:06:55 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 22:09:05 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:11:20 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.244.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:07 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:14:16 madnificent: oh lookie, the current usage magic broke! 22:14:19 *mathrick* debugs 22:14:27 as I said, it's supremely brittle at the moment 22:15:38 mathrick: what lisp are you running? 22:15:42 SBCL 22:15:43 mathrick: do you have a design document somewhere? 22:15:47 mathrick: ...on android?! 22:15:53 *madnificent* tried to beat sykopompto it, but failed 22:16:03 madnificent: there's no design yet :). And LinJ doesn't come with design docs, sadly 22:16:12 sykopomp: negative! 22:16:17 LinJ compiles CL to Java 22:16:28 otherwise I'd just run ABCL 22:16:36 but Delvik is sloooow with reflection 22:16:38 mathrick: that doesn't run on android 22:16:40 mathrick: it doesn't compile CL. It compiles Linj. 22:16:55 sykopomp: well, yes. But that's a good start 22:17:06 *madnificent* thought the idea was to use ECL + native toolkit and use linj to generate the needed java bits 22:17:26 mathrick: so I get s-expressions and I still need to deal with debugging code as if it were Java? :\ 22:17:27 my ultimate plan is to have an environment that produces Java for GUI parts, and stashes all the rest in a native binary 22:17:45 it would be nice to use a real lisp, yeah. 22:18:11 the idea is to make almost all Java automatic, and when not possible, have you write LinJ instead of Java 22:18:20 I mean seriously, Java is completely unpalatable 22:18:25 that wouldn't be bad. 22:18:38 mathrick: unpalatable, but you would have to deal with it anyway. 22:18:42 madnificent: exactly 22:18:59 and at that point, what's more palatable -- using java, or using java by proxy and having to debug code translations into Java? 22:19:00 sykopomp: but just not having to write all that drivel is an improvement 22:19:26 mathrick: Java IDEs make java much more palatable. 22:19:38 sykopomp: want emacs 22:19:43 sykopomp: the java generated is very readable (as far as Java goes, anyway), so it's not worse than any kind of CL-to-not-machine-code compiler 22:19:50 emacs + java wasn't much fun the last time I tried it 22:19:52 sykopomp: Eclipse is horrible 22:19:55 madnificent: if emacs had the kind of environment Java IDEs can provide, yes. Unfortunately, it does not. 22:20:12 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:12 it needs 20GB of RAM just to start, and then it sucks frozen monkey balls 22:20:20 mathrick: sounds like emacs. 22:20:29 there's JDEE, but it's not very maintained and rather breaky 22:20:34 JDEE sucks. 22:20:41 indeed it does 22:20:44 frozen monkey balls 22:20:56 I mean, I can't express how much I tried to stay in emacs land when I had to do Java a few times. 22:20:56 sykopomp: emacs is happy with 200MB 22:21:05 mathrick: only! Thank goodness. 22:21:26 in any case -- eclipse makes Java quite palatable. You can turn your brain off, which I am thankful for. 22:21:40 Sergio`_ [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 22:21:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:21:54 anyways -- I'd love to see ecl and/or clisp running through the NDK. 22:22:01 have you looked into that at all yet? 22:22:18 sykopomp: yes. Sadly java lacks some features, which makes me angry when I need to use it. 22:22:29 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:43 sykopomp: nope, I've carefully investigated how much java avoidance is possible first, and it turns out you can't avoid it 22:22:50 so I decided to tackle that first 22:23:08 mathrick: right, you need to generate intents, activities, etc. 22:23:14 yup 22:23:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:28 sykopomp: ecl should be fairly simple: spit out the c files then compile for the NDK 22:23:33 tbh, I just don't see what's so painful about it. I'm going to try writing some actual android apps first, regardless of the Java. 22:23:36 I'm still not sure how to design a DSL that would represent that cleanly in CL, but I'm sure it can be done 22:23:37 or at least hack on some existing ones. 22:23:44 madnificent: not that easy. 22:23:55 sykopomp: I did, first thing I did was write real android java apps 22:24:06 it reinforced my decision not to write Java by hand 22:24:08 madnificent: the NDK doesn't use a standard libc, and it's very very starved as far as what libraries are available to it. 22:24:25 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: BAH!] 22:24:31 *p_l* succumbed and installed eclipse 22:24:32 I don't think pthreads are available. 22:24:42 sykopomp: they are 22:24:56 p_l: through the NDK? Really? 22:24:58 missing is C++ stack support and certain less used functions 22:25:18 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:25:23 sykopomp: not sure if creating new threads won't crash the VM, but they are there 22:25:28 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.165] has joined #lisp 22:25:59 p_l: according to the ndk docs, the only ones you should rely on are libc, libm, the JNI interface headers, liblog, opengl es, libjnigraphics, and 'A Minimal set of headers for C++ support' 22:26:10 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:15 someone could also try to generate Dalvik bytecode from a limited variant of CL, kinda like ThinLisp uses a restricted subset of CL 22:26:17 anything else is nasal demons. 22:26:34 sykopomp: pthreads are there because they are used by some of the system software 22:26:47 p_l: right, but they're like 'lay off' 22:27:07 so you shouldn't consider them to be available for the NDK 22:27:14 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:27:20 sykopomp: threading can be left to Java 22:27:38 you need to work as a JNI callout to be able to play with Android's multitasking anyway 22:27:38 mathrick: it's not just threading. That's a pretty starved subset of available libraries :\ 22:27:43 /opt/android-ndk/build/platforms/android-5/arch-arm/usr/include/pthread.h 22:27:53 hmm 22:28:06 p_l: everything else is nasal demons 22:28:13 they can and will break it 22:28:18 has _anyone_ actually tried to build clisp or ecl? 22:28:24 I haven't 22:28:26 that's step 2 22:28:29 TR2N [email@89.180.211.250] has joined #lisp 22:28:35 and the issue with android is that certain interfaces aren't exported in native code, so you might have issues trying to run certain stuff 22:28:45 mathrick: I'm interested in hacking SBCL on arm. 22:28:53 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:29:13 I wonder. Does that mean 50mb binaries taking up 80mb of memory when they run? 22:29:15 for example, you'd need to write your own code to interact with display manager, find a way to register your app with IPC, register with app management 22:29:17 ...on Android? :) 22:29:33 -!- Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:29:55 getting a native app to start isn't hard 22:29:56 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 22:30:20 mathrick: anyway, repo! give me repo! 22:30:20 :D 22:30:26 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:30:28 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 22:30:32 -!- Sergio`_ is now known as Sergio` 22:30:38 p_l: I did already 22:30:57 p_l: madnificent: bzr get lp:linj-android 22:31:10 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.95] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:33:41 wow, the linj license is _not_ nice 22:34:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:02 okay, why does it break now? 22:35:21 madnificent: António said he'd try to relicense it, but I haven't heard back from him 22:35:34 I'll probably poke him again in a bit 22:35:39 that'd be good :) 22:35:56 otherwise we'll need to replace it once it all fits together 22:36:10 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:36:12 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:20 what license is it using? 22:37:18 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:38:08 kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:41 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:41:13 sykopomp: free for non-commercial use 22:41:23 oh gag 22:41:42 I thought you were going to say GPL and I was going to make fun of you. 22:41:42 :P 22:42:16 GPL is bad enough too, but it's not that painful for tooling 22:42:31 it's significantly more obnoxious for libraries 22:43:00 but imagine the fresh scent of freedom. 22:43:55 sykopomp: I want to be free, I don't care about the code's life 22:44:10 madnificent: but the code loves you. 22:44:21 you're going to make stallman cry. You wouldn't want that, would you?! 22:44:31 sykopomp: :( 22:44:38 that's right. You should feel bad. 22:44:42 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 22:45:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:14 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:19 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:46:03 sykopomp: So  you were going to make fun of him for using GPL, but since he wasn't, you'll make fun of him because he isn't? :p 22:46:04 standard LOOP has no NEXT-ITERATION, right? 22:46:23 Odin-: no, the opposite. 22:46:27 Raptelan [~Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 22:46:28 sykopomp: I would want that! 22:46:34 Odin-: I was going to poke fun at him for being 'icky!' at the gpl! 22:46:41 Ah. 22:46:43 mathrick: you are clearly an ENEMY of FREEDOM. 22:46:46 but RMS is a sociopath, so I don't think you can make him cry that easily 22:46:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:47 Odin-: he knows I can't resist to respond to it... 22:46:52 sykopomp: I AM 22:47:05 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:07 mathrick: well, I'm not going to be your friend anymore! 22:47:18 you hurt little Rich's feelings. 22:47:20 (loop (tagbody (go :continue) :continue)) 22:47:22 :( 22:47:33 sykopomp: will you reimplement me in GPL and release me as gFreeMathrick? 22:47:38 *Odin-* mumbles something about the freedom to sell oneself into slavery not really being a highly-regarded one. 22:47:38 xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has joined #lisp 22:47:44 mathrick: GNU Math! 22:48:07 mathrick: take BSD code, republish as GPL and only update that code... Fucking GPL zealots :( 22:48:18 madnificent: ouch, yes 22:48:22 (And hence, GPL not containing in any meaningful sense an infringement of anyone's rights) 22:48:36 isn't it a little ironic that you're 'ouch' about something that you explicitly think should be allowable? ;) 22:49:03 not really 22:49:07 But then, when you've got capitalist whackjobs all around, what sense is there to be expected? 22:49:09 sykopomp: "I disagree with everything you say and I will fight for your right to say it" 22:49:10 madnificent: to publish some code under the GPL, you need to have the Copyright on this code. 22:49:17 sykopomp: make stallman cry? COUNT ME IN, WHERE DO I SIGN UP? 22:49:27 mathrick: so what's wrong with republishing slight alterations of source code as GPL? 22:49:32 seems perfectly acceptable! 22:49:35 BSD code is usually copyrighted by their authors, so they are the only one who can also release it under GPL. 22:49:38 I think they should do more of that. 22:49:44 pjb`: you wouldn't if not for the attribution 22:49:45 sykopomp: the gpl forces users to publish what they do to it... whereas BSD says "go and change it if you need it for commercial use". So the GPL puts a restriction on code that I preferred to be free. 22:49:49 And who are you to critize authors' choice of license? 22:50:07 madnificent: What restriction? 22:50:11 -!- maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:12 madnificent: smells like FREEDOM to me! 22:50:15 pjb`: you can re-license BSD code freely. You just need to mention the original authors in the code or the docs 22:50:15 I like it. A+. 22:50:19 sykopomp: so in essence, it's not at all what I preferred it to be... I wanted coders that used it to stay free, but some other coder preferred others to be limited anyways. So I dislike them 22:50:19 hmm 22:50:32 madnificent: yes, but it promotes further liberation of code. 22:50:45 madnificent: Question. 22:51:01 madnificent: You wouldn't happen to be a "libertarian" of some shading, would you? 22:51:34 sykopomp: especially for a group that says something in the range of "This code should be free" it's somewhat strange to put extra limitations on it. Because "they" as a programmer find themselves to be more important than the original coders 22:51:36 Aren't we all some kind of libertarian? 22:51:45 Odin-: in what sense? 22:51:46 madnificent: programmers are perfectly free. They are perfectly free to not use GPL libraries. 22:51:53 it's not like they're getting locked out of the world. 22:51:55 Right. 22:51:55 madnificent: Politically. 22:52:42 Odin-: If you care, I believe in freedom of thought. I think it can only be accomplished by replacing captilism with communism. It's a different form though, so don't pin me down on russia's history :) 22:52:49 madnificent: Basically, what I'm asking is, "do you think private property is the coolest thing since sliced bread and that capitalism is a groovy, smooth system to get things done?" 22:53:04 madnificent: Intriguing. 22:53:16 madnificent: freedom of thought? Through communism? 22:53:20 I want what you're smoking. 22:53:29 sykopomp: not for #lisp :) 22:53:35 madnificent: Because what you're advocating otherwise is a variant of the propertarian "self-ownership" argument. 22:53:39 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:42 madnificent: programmers are perfectly free. They are perfectly free to not use GPL libraries. <-- this is the same argument people try to use to justify Apple's practices as not monopolistic 22:53:50 no, you're not "perfectly free" 22:53:58 mathrick: would you kindly post an example of working generating an android app with linj? Even plain "Hello World" that does nothing except running (might be even incomplete, just to see that it generated the code correctly) 22:54:08 sykopomp: It's called "not being a narrow-minded, stuck-up git". :> 22:54:10 not to mention that RMS has killed at least one BSD-licensed readline clone 22:54:15 mathrick: don't waste your time on sykopomp's zealoting... I don't think he means it 22:54:29 p_l: that's what I'm doing! 22:54:34 read the backlog sir :) 22:54:40 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:54:45 I just found the error and got it working 22:54:46 mathrick: been too busy reading diffs :P 22:54:47 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:55 madnificent knows what's up. 22:55:01 I dislike the BSD. 22:55:05 because it's not free enough. 22:55:09 but I love the MIT and the GPL equally. 22:55:21 LGPL can go eat a... something. 22:55:33 sykopomp: I hold citizenship of a country where 3-clause BSD and MIT is the same anyway 22:55:57 p_l: illegal? :\ 22:56:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:05 because of the warranty thing? 22:56:31 sykopomp: on the communism part: by working for a common goal you can work together and remove a whole lot of double work we're doing. As communism states that everyone should be treated equal, it doesn't limit you on their earnings. By pushing in a people's democracy in a communist system and adding an equivalent to temporary wages to it, based on the amount of work people do, you get a world in which people are genuinly free. You 22:56:31 remove the captilism from it. 22:56:32 p_l: huh? Care to elaborate? 22:56:33 One could just move to china and wave two figures and any sort of IP shenanigans. hehe 22:56:35 sykopomp: no, it means that both are the same from the pov of law. Actually, Public Domain is kinda close to it 22:56:41 *mathrick* has the same citizenship 22:56:48 mathrick: I ended up reading Polish Copyright Law from start to end once 22:56:53 it was... interesting 22:57:05 figures/fingers 22:57:06 there was some crazy shit you could infer from it 22:57:11 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:57:21 *mathrick* waits for android to boot 22:57:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:34 Lispers of the world, UNITE! 22:57:47 like watching my legally bought DVDs with MPlayer was kind of illegal, but downloading stuff from IRC was perfectly legal... 22:58:07 mathrick: crossed fingers :) 22:58:32 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:58:44 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:36 madnificent: I got it to crash so far :) 23:01:34 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:02:20 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:28 madnificent: okay, it compiles, but crashes because I haven't called super.onCreate() 23:02:46 mathrick: you need to reboot it on each build? 23:02:49 no 23:03:46 yay, worky 23:05:06 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:20 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:33 Phoodus [foo@174-22-216-12.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:24 aw [~aw@port-92-195-41-185.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:10:41 what happened to lisppaste's announcements? 23:10:43 oh, spam 23:10:46 damn idiots 23:10:55 can someone -q the bot? 23:10:57 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:11:10 madnificent, p_l: http://paste.lisp.org/display/105701 23:11:19 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:29 mathrick: later, thanks 23:12:46 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-209.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:54 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:56 mathrick: hey. That doesn't look that bad! 23:13:04 sykopomp: :) 23:13:13 I might actually try this out this weekend :) 23:13:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:33 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:02 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:17:05 :3 23:17:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:35 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:19:38 lordakinator [~igaray@190.1.21.180] has joined #lisp 23:22:22 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.1.21.180] has quit [Client Quit] 23:22:38 tltstc` [~nine@DHCP-225-183.caltech.edu] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:44 -!- tltstc` [~nine@DHCP-225-183.caltech.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:09 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-162-134.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:35 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-165-221.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 23:28:27 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:33:48 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:50 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:36:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:36:36 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:05 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:40:14 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 23:43:43 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:00 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]