00:00:05 proq` [~user@173-164-85-86-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:13 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:01:18 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:21 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:26 -!- Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:02:47 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:06:34 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:07:34 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-127-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:13:32 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:27 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:18:42 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.18.232.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 00:19:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D51F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:26:15 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-230-215.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please!] 00:27:27 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:15 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.168] has joined #lisp 00:29:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:30:15 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:31:33 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:42 -!- redline6561 [~redline@64.241.37.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:13 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:04 -!- proq` is now known as proq 00:39:16 -!- proq [~user@173-164-85-86-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:39:16 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:43:44 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-127-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:59 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:08 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:47:11 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48:32 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-71-107.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:43 chris_7 [~chris@CPE0021cc3fca00-CM00222d5ab025.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:38 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:44 chriswindows7 [~chris@64-9-158-51.fwd.datafoundry.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:39 -!- chris_7 [~chris@CPE0021cc3fca00-CM00222d5ab025.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:54:42 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:54:48 -!- chriswindows7 is now known as chris_7 00:57:29 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:14 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:00:24 How do I set the pretty-print width for slime? It doesn't seem to be related to the actual width of the emacs window. 01:04:49 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:06:36 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.172.170.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: and thanks for chat ;)] 01:06:39 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:06:42 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:32 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:09:33 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14:28 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:11 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:16:03 LiamH: i think it is 01:16:08 try to 01:16:13 download the newest SLIME 01:16:14 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 01:16:23 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:34 marioxcc: oh, my slime is too old? 01:16:56 LiamH: i don't know what version do you have, but maybe you may want to checkout the newest 01:17:02 not sure if it's fixed 01:17:25 is just the general procedure when you found a bug: to downlaod the latest version and see if it it's still there 01:17:38 if it is, then you can report it and send a patch 01:18:01 marioxcc: OK, but there isn't some parameter I can set in the old version? It wouldn't really be a bug if that were the case. 01:18:18 LiamH: sorry, i don't know, i'm a SLIME newbie 01:18:20 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:18:26 OK, thanks 01:23:22 tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.39] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:25:03 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:27:37 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:32:29 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 01:35:45 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:37:58 Would *print-right-margin* change anything? 01:38:25 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:40:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:42:56 Demosthenes [~demo@m385736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:19 -!- chris_7 [~chris@64-9-158-51.fwd.datafoundry.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:13 rtoym: why yes, that seems to do it 01:46:51 thanks 01:46:51 Cool. I was just guessing that slime used the normal pprinter. 01:47:09 I vaguely remember trying it before without effect. 01:47:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:52:09 Aargh. I've totally broken f2cl somehow. 01:55:22 you mean... we may never translate another Fortran program? 01:55:48 Yes. :-) Or use an older version of f2cl. 01:56:48 There wouldn't happen to be a part of f2cl that can be split out that will parse infix expressions and render them in normal form, would there? 01:57:28 Probably. But why not use the infix package? 01:57:37 Or cgol, or whatever it's called. 01:58:12 Yeah, I guess so. I know of Kantrowitz infix reader, what else is there? 01:58:47 -!- mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:23 There's cgol, which is some kind of c/algol thing. That's all I know of. 02:00:02 So, how come nobody's come around and said "hey, here's m-exps, whaddya think?" 02:00:59 rtoym: I just googled it, looks ... ancient. 02:01:25 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8E59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:33 Just like Lisp. :-) 02:01:44 or fortran 02:02:03 Odin-: I think they did, but people just said nah s-exps will do just fine by themselves 02:02:29 There is a Lisp with m-exps I think 02:02:44 I'm trying to automate the translation of GSL tests from C to lisp. So far I've been able to hack it using cl-ppcre; the ones I've tried are of very simple form. 02:03:23 Can infix parse the C? 02:03:24 but now I've come upon tests that have math expressions for arguments, like 1.0-1/256 02:03:34 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-f7b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:03:37 rtoym: I don't know 02:03:44 I assume it could 02:03:52 Guthur: Nope. 02:04:01 Given the very constricted form of what I want to convert. 02:04:05 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA9080.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:14 Guthur: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/node3.html <-- Bottom paragraph. 02:05:32 I was think of mlisp, but I don't think that really counts 02:06:22 But I don't really think they are required to be honest, but someone may have a more informed view. 02:06:32 *Odin-* likes the obviously-a-tree structure of s-exps, personally. 02:06:55 (Which includes the "bugger infix" mentality. ;) 02:09:04 asarch [~asarch@189.188.141.214] has joined #lisp 02:10:13 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-f7b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:10:42 Ok. I think that fixes the f2cl issue. 02:11:23 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:11:46 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:47 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:33 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:16:10 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:35 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:18:51 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:20:20 minion: memo for tmh: Do you know of any good reason why test-unit won't accept a tolerance of 0? GSL has a few tests like that; it sounds odd until you realize they are testing against 0.0d0, so it makes sense that it would be exact. But test-unit gives me an error if I specify 0 for lisp-unit:*epsilon*. 02:20:20 Remembered. I'll tell tmh when he/she/it next speaks. 02:22:31 Hrm, so I just learned a funny thing about the (do ...) form. Run this example, and you'll see what I mean: 02:22:31 (do ((i 0 (let ((i (1+ i))) (format t "secret i = ~A~%" i) i))) ((= i 10)) (format t "i = ~A~%" i)) 02:23:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:23:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:23:48 I was doing this type of thing: (do ((obj (dequeue q) (dequeue q))) ....) and discovered there was always one more thing dropped from the head of the queue than I wanted. 02:24:23 It is obvious, in a way, it it happens, but it surprised me since normally the step forms don't side effect and I hadn't thought about it. 02:25:20 I need to loop until I get X items from the queue, or the queue is empty. Oddly, it seems a problem to do so. 02:25:53 (loop repeat x until (queue-empty-p q) do ...) 02:26:16 What would the do form look like? 02:26:32 why do you need DO? 02:26:43 I don't need it, I want to understand it. :) 02:26:47 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:26:57 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:27:07 then figure on your own! 02:27:18 (do ((repeat x (1- repeat))) ( (or (zerop x) (queue-empty-p q)) ) ...) 02:28:01 pjb, I see, and one the dequeues in the body of the loop. 02:28:12 Yes. 02:28:29 So, is it impossible to write what I want with the dequeue being in the step form? 02:28:44 Well you can but you'd have to test for the stop condition in the step clauses. 02:28:57 I see now. This answers all of my questions. Thank you! 02:30:31 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-35-244.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:30:56 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:20 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:15 -!- lightbulb [~null@adsl-70-234-105-122.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:37 maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has joined #lisp 02:41:46 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:43:38 pjb, awesome, the changes are working nicely. Much thanks! 02:44:05 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:53 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m385736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:31 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:45 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:02 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:50:03 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:56:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:57:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:58:26 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:58:37 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-207.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 02:59:51 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:00:45 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:50 -!- iamcms2 [~iamcms2@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:01:54 Fare: ping 03:04:23 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:06:28 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:57 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.48.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:03 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:30 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:30 -!- retupmoca` is now known as retupmoca 03:11:27 dvjennings [~d_molish@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:09 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 03:15:36 Demosthenes [~demo@67.111.42.189.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:30 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:19:08 sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-48-66-31.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:40 morning 03:20:43 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-71-107.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:21:06 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:40 hi p_l 03:31:48 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:20 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0223-166-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:46 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:37:36 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: have fun everyone] 03:37:57 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:41:35 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:10 *p_l* learns some simple assembly for the exam... 03:47:22 pity we can't have examples in CL :/ 03:48:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:49:54 Successful candidates lay programs out fairly neatly. Failing candidates write with a charred telegraph pole on postage stamps. A good pen is worth 2 CAS points. <--- hahaha 03:51:49 the perils of writing C and assembly with pencil 03:52:47 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:53 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:26 -!- dvjennings [~d_molish@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:00:30 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 04:06:03 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:09:59 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:11:51 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:49 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:14:44 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:18:07 tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.32.65] has joined #lisp 04:18:26 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:57 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:56 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:32:25 -!- derekv [njpvm67ijr@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:38:35 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:38:44 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:57 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:58 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:38:58 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 04:40:57 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:55 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:43:40 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:48:20 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:29 -!- maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:57 -!- exu0 [~exu@dslb-088-067-158-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:52:03 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:02 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:54:51 hjpark [~user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 04:57:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:57:36 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:32 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:58:58 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:01:07 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:26 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:04:51 necroforest_ [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 nostoi [~nostoi@201.Red-79-156-245.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:06 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:10:32 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-162-208-66.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:52 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@201.Red-79-156-245.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:13:00 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:13:00 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:13:35 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:13:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.3] 05:14:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:06 In the IT jargon, does CL stand for something I don't know, or did I just find Common Lisp where I didn't expect it (beside Cobol and SQL requirements in a job add)? 05:15:05 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:15:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CL#Computers 05:16:12 Axioplase: be wary of CL in context of AS/400 :P 05:16:35 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:35 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:05 p_l: oh, that must be this one. 05:17:12 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:18 I've read AS/400 a couple of times in the last minutes 05:17:52 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-65-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:58 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 05:18:42 Eek. This looks very ugly. Too bad. 05:18:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:20 Axioplase: at least it's better than original JCL :> 05:21:04 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@76.14.32.65] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 05:22:22 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22:49 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:07 -!- hjpark [~user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:23 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:44 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.141.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:24:56 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 05:26:08 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:26:28 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-162-208-66.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:27:17 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nidjnnhetperdodi] has joined #lisp 05:35:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:38:31 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:38:31 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 05:39:50 vng [~user@123.21.161.46] has joined #lisp 05:39:50 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 05:40:44 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:41:25 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:41:46 (= (sxhash '(#\( 18 nil nil)) (sxhash '(#\/ 8 nil nil))) => t 05:42:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:16 is there a way to generate a truly unique hash? 05:44:05 s/sxhash/identity/ 05:44:06 bytecolor: what kind of hash and for what purpose? 05:46:48 I need a unique hash for any given combination of `(,parse-element ,parse-position ,skip-element ,*ignore-case*). I'm playing around with packrat parsing 05:48:02 "hash" implies some non-uniqueness 05:48:06 the usual way is to create a massive table with rows = the parse position and cols each parse element, which is one reason packrat parsing has not been embraced 05:48:27 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-127-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:09 bytecolor: what are types of those elements? I assume *ignore-case* is boolean 05:49:15 I thought of using the list of elements as the key 05:49:40 -!- sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:50:03 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:03 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:05 p_l parse-element and skip-element are instances of parser, parse-position is just an unsigned int 05:50:25 somnium [~user@adsl-65-186-62.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:30 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:30 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:52 sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:00 bytecolor: well, then you need to implement a unique way to identify parse-element and skip-element (EQ might be enough) and calculate hash from that 05:53:01 I finally figured out how packrat parsing works, and it pretty cool. The same parser at the same position will always return the same. PEG parsers backtrack like mad. So packratting caches the hits 05:53:18 p_l: nod 05:54:17 I assume parser instances are CLOS instances? 05:54:28 yes 05:54:58 that's how the recursivenessness works, with a single generic funciton 'parse'. clos rawks ;) 05:55:22 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:02 bytecolor: btw, have you tried simply using hash tables or do you need an external hash code? 05:57:24 nunb [~nundan@59.178.215.35] has joined #lisp 05:57:30 I'm not sure I understand what you want to do bytecolor, but gethash on a hash table with EQUAL should work to distinguish between two such lists I think 05:58:09 p_l: the results of sxhash are the keys in the table, the values are instances of parse-result, which is just a struct 05:58:18 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 05:58:32 *p_l* seconds phadthai - it should work 05:58:33 p_l, bytecolor: with sbcl you can get at SB-INT:PSXHASH 05:58:47 so if you do need an externah hash code for equalp, there you go 05:59:12 problem is its not portable common lisp 05:59:14 aye, that's what I was just about to try, but storing an integer would have saved a lot of memory, which is why I tried sxhash first 05:59:41 bytecolor: how memory constrained we you? 05:59:57 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-123-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:00:05 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:00:31 bytecolor: I would try the hashtable if you can at all use that at all if you care about portability. 06:00:33 nixeagle: the problem with packrat parsing is the memory consumed by the lookup table, I'm just trying to find a way to use 'less' memory, not hard figures 06:00:43 nod 06:00:47 bytecolor: roger 06:02:15 so, I could just use the aforementioned list of elements as the key, then set the hash table test to #'equal ? 06:02:41 bytecolor: that would give you case sensitive matching on any strings and eq matching on clos objects 06:03:18 that should do, as some 'parsers' are just string literals and characters 06:03:35 the problem of course is storing the key... but if you have to have the parsers anyway (eg the parser instances don't get thrown away with each repitition), then you are not losing anything by storing two object references, a number and a boolean 06:03:42 (parse "x" #\x) => t (parse "foo" "foo") => t 06:04:01 nod 06:04:15 I would declare your your parser format using a struct 06:04:35 set the type to vector 06:04:47 which 'parser format' do you mean? 06:05:02 bytecolor: the one you are using as the key with 4 elements in it 06:05:08 ah 06:05:27 ok, I follow, sounds good 06:06:02 bytecolor: file:///usr/share/doc/hyperspec/Body/m_defstr.htm look at the sections about The available slot-options are: (use your browser's search function) 06:06:14 errm bah 06:06:31 clhs defstruct 06:06:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 06:06:36 nixeagle: (defstruct (foo (:type vector) ...) 06:06:40 stassats: same link ;) 06:06:47 bytecolor: yep! sorry if you already knew ;) 06:07:00 nevermind that I had you look up the wrong part of the spec page anyway 06:07:04 nixeagle: no problem ;) 06:07:29 bytecolor: what I would do with the struct is strongly declare that your integer is a fixnum (is it?) or smaller and declare that boolean as such 06:07:36 s00p [~shitag1@219-90-211-89.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:07:38 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 06:07:46 that'll save you memory, plus the array representation will save you memory 06:07:59 will it? 06:08:00 well, the integer is the position in the file, so it depends on the size of the file. 06:08:13 Can anyone recommend a Lisp learning reference for a C programmer? 06:08:19 stassats: I would think if it knows the objects can only be fixnums, at least in sbcl it should 06:08:23 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:08:26 minion: pcl? 06:08:27 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:08:30 nixeagle: the latter 06:08:32 Thanks :) 06:08:57 stassats: I'd think anyway, the other plus is strong typing ;) 06:09:06 es bee see el 06:10:06 plus named functions instead of (first key) (second key) or a destructuring lambda list ;) 06:10:18 (upgraded-array-element-type '(or fixnum boolean)) => T 06:10:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zmjxzknyeswxbmbx] has joined #lisp 06:10:37 stassats: oh well how useful is that :< 06:11:24 I doubt a list is going to do any better though 06:11:52 bytecolor: seeing that, I'd play with both approaches and see which uses more memory 06:11:53 list overhead will be twice as large 06:11:59 nevermind then :) 06:12:11 that is what I was thinking stassats 06:12:24 because you have to have the pointers to maintain the list structure 06:12:41 I'll try a :type vector 06:13:24 bytecolor: yep, and I'd declare your slot types even if it won't help directly, at the very least it will signal errors if you run with safety 3 while testing 06:13:28 i'd suggest: no :type of a structure, but declare types of slots 06:13:49 I'll try them all! ;) 06:14:29 stassats: knowing that sbcl can't make that array any smaller I'd agree unless he is really memory constrained and does not want to use the space to store the type name and the slot names for each structure. 06:15:27 does it store slot names? 06:15:39 stassats: well the printed form shows the slot names 06:15:48 so I guess I've always assumed it does ;) 06:16:08 i don't see how that follows 06:16:20 eg #S(my-struct :foo 1 :bar 2) but I can be wildy wrong :D 06:16:48 The problem is I think this is premature optimization in some extent. You can go with a named structure and change it later to an unnamed one if saving whatever memory going with an untyped struct can save you 06:16:56 that's only printed representation, it doesn't tell me anything about internal structure 06:17:07 stassats: logically you are making sense ;) 06:17:24 I dunno how I got that impression 06:19:33 I would be using a struct instead of a list for bytecolor's case no matter what. The simple gain of using parser-case-p or whatever beats (forth parser-list) by a mile 06:21:41 btw do all lisp libraries through asdf need gpg keys because of clwiki being a wiki? (basically?) 06:21:41 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:22:15 ITYM asdf-install 06:22:19 reason I'm asking is I think I have two libraries that I can make asdf-installable 06:22:50 php-serialization and cl-github 06:23:19 stassats: ITYM means what, sorry 06:23:44 "I Think You Meant" 06:23:55 stassats: yes I did, I'm sorry for being vauge 06:24:20 because asdf and asdf-install are separate things 06:24:23 I kinda corrected myself next line down ;) 06:24:30 stassats: yes I realize ;) 06:24:54 and asdf-install is out of vogue 06:24:56 I was actually in asdf-install's source earlier ^-^ installable.lisp 06:25:23 stassats: hah yeah I kinda realize, I still use it extensively though 06:25:31 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:33 minion: clbuild? 06:25:33 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 06:25:35 its just so darned simple 06:25:54 nixeagle: especially when it breaks 06:26:18 stassats: I have not had any asdf-install breakage 06:26:28 lucky you 06:26:30 asdf breakage yes, but not on asdf-install's part 06:26:40 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:45 stassats: to be honest I'm not really sure how asdf install can break meaningfully. Its a pretty simple script as far as things go. The main weakness I see is depending on the format of gpg's output and gpg's input format. 06:29:27 eg in sb-ext:run-program "gpg" ... 06:29:39 errm I just lost some parens in that 06:30:01 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 06:30:04 hrm, if I use the struct I get zero hits, if I use `(,foo ,bar ,baaz ,zoo) I get about 500 hits 06:30:15 it loads every .asd files in a tarball, some of which shouldn't be loaded 06:30:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 06:31:15 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:40 stassats: good one there, but that is not really breaking as much as doing too much :P 06:31:58 -!- dslguy-away is now known as unkanon 06:32:27 i'm having trouble looking this up on google 06:32:36 does lisp have callcc too or is it just scheme that has it? 06:32:42 by lisp i mean CL 06:32:46 common lisp doesn't have call/cc 06:35:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:35:41 unkanon: there is cl-cont but its not built in and is not quite the same thing. I know some things like weblocks uses it to get simple continuations. 06:36:24 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:36:45 what's "simple" continuations? one-shot continuations? 06:36:56 why haven't they included callcc in lisp? 06:36:58 unkanon: weblocks uses it for that 06:37:15 is Lisp's core fundamentally different from Scheme that it wouldn't easily support callcc? 06:37:51 at the time CL was standardized continuations were a fancy new thing researched by the scheme community, I guess 06:38:05 unkanon: it can be implemented using macros and by libraries. I have no clue what the language designer's intents were and how much they knew. 06:38:20 just not like scheme does it 06:38:36 i don't see a need in continuations, but that's just me 06:38:37 well not quite as "clean" I guess, cl-cont uses a code walker (says so right in the webpage) 06:38:44 Anyway, what do you want continuations for anyway? 06:39:08 stassats: There can be nice at times; e.g. for swank-fuzzy.lisp 06:39:28 i'll read up on cl-cont 06:39:34 well calcc is just so useful 06:39:37 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:39:41 for what for exactly? 06:39:48 creating different control structures 06:39:52 like? 06:40:10 if its something neat I want to hear about it ;) 06:40:12 like if a language doesnt have goto (like Lua doesn't) then if it supported callcc i could make my own goto 06:40:23 CL has goto 06:40:28 unkanon: does lisp have that problem? 06:40:45 any suggestions for a beginner's textbook to lisp? 06:40:46 does lisp have coroutines? 06:40:58 Kizaru: gigamonkey's book 06:41:04 minion: gentle? 06:41:04 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 06:41:06 unfortunately not :-) 06:41:06 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 06:41:09 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:15 minion: pcl? 06:41:16 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:41:37 i only used call/cc in scheme for what i'd use CL condition system 06:41:49 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:42:17 what's CL's condition system? 06:42:25 stassats: a cool use of it is what webblocks uses it for, mind you my web-dev consists of reading the source of webblocks, I'm not a huge fan of dinking with html and css ;) 06:42:52 unkanon: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html 06:45:27 looking into it now, thanks 06:45:38 so you use lisp as a cgi language? 06:45:40 :) easier to link to that then explain over irc 06:45:46 unkanon: why not :) 06:45:56 no i don't have anything against that :) 06:45:59 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 06:46:12 i think it would lend itself pretty well for that, especially with some abusing of the macros 06:46:17 unkanon: I don't do much webdev. I just poke at it from time to time ;) 06:46:20 where you could make your own syntax for outputting html 06:46:32 unkanon: http://weitz.de/cl-who/ 06:46:40 hold on lemme show you something 06:46:52 I'm game :) 06:47:51 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=448441135356213813# 06:47:55 @ 1:01:00 06:48:03 if you look at the screen 06:48:13 unkanon: http://i.nixeagle.net:8080/t << that is probably the most interesting thing I've ever done with hunchentoot 06:48:19 he's trying to explain the power of lisp macros to mere mortals / non-lispers like me 06:48:30 unkanon: ok looking 06:48:44 unkanon: bah don't think of lisp as some god language, its not ;) 06:48:58 its just a brand new language to someone used to ALGOL things 06:49:03 wow i can see as youre typing with that last link, that's awesome 06:49:08 unkanon: yep 06:49:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:16 kudos to you sir 06:49:27 that's really interesting, i'd love to see how it works once i know some lisp 06:49:33 and you can thwap ahead of time! but i missed the opportunity 06:49:34 but let's go back do deifying lisp 06:49:36 unkanon: emacs + lisp 06:49:47 minion: thwap to nixeagle 06:49:47 nixeagle: have a look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 06:49:47 that's what you use too? 06:49:52 i gotta learn emacs first 06:50:16 stassats: oh come on, I've been shown that twice now :D 06:50:29 its late and I'm tired both times I have been shown that 06:50:58 it's is it is ;) 06:51:05 so nixeagle 06:51:12 so you say lisp is not a god language? 06:51:24 some 20 hours ago i was here and somebody was telling me lisp is THE best language period. 06:51:26 sometimes I'm just lazy though ;) 06:51:53 unkanon: it is a very good language, to me its the best there is, but don't glorify it as some strange beast. 06:52:13 macros really do change things, the philosophy of using functional programming when it makes sense, that changes things. 06:52:31 I like things like haskell, but its too much sometimes 06:52:40 i love it that you said "using functional programming WHEN it makes sense" 06:52:49 yes precisely 06:53:05 unkanon: well you gotta realize common lisp covers more then one paradigm of programming. 06:53:08 use lisp when it makes sense 06:53:20 i like haskell too but i don't condemn mutability, i think we have to choose what's better for each problem we're tackling, and many many times mutability is the best way to go 06:53:20 stassats: kudos ;) 06:53:23 i.e. approximately always 06:53:29 hahaha 06:53:45 what paradigms does it cover? 06:53:50 you can use object oriented programming, functional programming, imperative, really whatever you can write up macros for. 06:53:52 functional, procedural and OO? 06:53:59 meta- 06:54:03 lisp has closures right? 06:54:05 mop is awesome :) 06:54:08 first class closures 06:54:09 *amop ;) 06:54:12 unkanon: sure 06:54:18 coolness 06:54:31 so you can make OO just by using closures, withotu resorting to macros, then? 06:54:42 unkanon: sure 06:54:50 unkanon: onlisp talks about that some 06:55:02 http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 06:55:18 oh right 06:55:22 i was just googling it :) 06:55:28 ok, that's cool 06:55:33 what else do i need in a language... 06:55:35 ;) 06:55:39 unkanon: wikipeida says this: 06:55:40 Paradigm Multi-paradigm: procedural, functional, object-oriented, meta 06:55:56 somebody here was talking about the diamond whatever 06:56:08 basically being that the difference between programming in C and Lisp was that 06:56:14 unkanon: oh oop issue that multimethos step around 06:56:26 ... in C you have a fast buggy code right away and then you debug and get rid of the errors 06:56:30 nixeagle: another diamond 06:56:39 stassats: oops ;) 06:56:41 while in lisp you have slow working code right away and then you optimize to make it faster 06:56:44 you agree? 06:57:13 i can write buggy code in any language 06:57:29 but that's easier to do in C 06:57:43 because C is so error-prone 06:57:48 you underestimate my bug-skills 06:57:52 unkanon: (declare (optimize (speed 3) (debug 1) (safety 0)) (type fixnum arg1) (type ...)) will make most lisp compilers act like C compilers 06:57:53 lol 06:58:20 hmm are those named parameters?? 06:58:27 speed 3, debug 1, safety 0 ? 06:58:37 clhs declare 06:58:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm 06:58:38 unkanon: declare is a special thing that gives metadata to the compiler 06:58:39 clhs optimize 06:58:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_optimi.htm 06:58:44 does lisp support named parameters? 06:58:47 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-161-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:58:49 thank you pjb :) 06:58:53 unkanon: sure. 06:58:55 unkanon: &key 06:59:19 i love named parameters... 06:59:21 unkanon: I think at some time you should start trying ;) You learn lisp best with an repl in hand 06:59:24 readability++ 06:59:31 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:37 i think i'll start with CLisp 06:59:38 unkanon: pop over at that buffer and I'll show you real quick 06:59:49 and then when i'm proficient i may learn some emacs to use lisp 06:59:57 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:01 ok, i don't know how to type there 07:00:06 but i'm there now 07:00:09 unkanon: you can't 07:00:13 its view only, part of the magic 07:00:29 unkanon: see how that works? 07:00:35 yes, so easy! 07:00:38 is that standard in lisp? 07:00:41 that's so beautiful 07:00:43 unkanon: yep 07:00:51 there you go 07:00:57 defaulting named parameters 07:01:24 i've always been fascinated with lisp but never really took the time to study it 07:01:27 i think now is the time 07:01:39 and contrary to most non-lispers i love the parentheses 07:02:03 i don't like Scheme's parentheses though, because they always mean "call a function" or something 07:02:05 unkanon: the buffer of mine btw is meant to be read only, I spent the time to write it after getting frustrated with things like gobby and screen, both require the other person to do something actively... this requires someone to click a link and watch ;) 07:02:17 unkanon: lisps always do as well 07:02:29 doesnt lisp have "funccall" or something? 07:02:34 unkanon: yes 07:02:41 then i'm confused? 07:02:46 unkanon: see my buffer again 07:02:56 yes 07:02:58 you said (list 1 2 3) 07:03:03 funcall is used to call variable functions 07:03:07 but would this work:--------> (list (1 2 3)) 07:03:09 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:03:09 yes and funcall #'list 1 2 3 is the same thing 07:03:17 unkanon: no unless you quoted it 07:03:27 (list '(1 2 3)) 07:03:29 like so? 07:03:32 unkanon: yep 07:03:35 also in the buffer ;) 07:03:46 so then this doesnt work: 07:03:48 ((list '(1 2 3))) ? 07:03:55 unkanon: well it would do this: 07:04:10 instead of asking all these questions here, you'd better read some book 07:04:14 ((list '(1 2 3))) -> (((1 2 3))) then try to call that... ;) 07:04:14 like practical common lisp 07:04:23 because these questions are boring, actually 07:04:41 unkanon: the big thing you need to do is just grab an repl and start messing with it 07:04:49 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:04:53 look at what I do in that buffer and how _quickly_ I can fin an answer out 07:05:28 ok sorry i didn't want to litter the chat 07:05:28 these questions I'm answering are fine and dandy and its late and I can't sleep so I don't mind helping out ;) 07:05:59 unkanon: well the thing here is most of these questions you can answer yourself by putting things into an repl and watching what happens 07:06:06 lisp is very interactive that way 07:06:14 there is no "wait for the compiler" step 07:06:19 and i appreciate your willingness but i don't want to piss off the other guys here 07:06:22 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:06:27 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:06:31 i'll play around witha repl then 07:06:44 i'll probably download clisp since somebody here suggested it 07:06:47 unkanon: yep, ask if you get stuck I don't think people will kill you too much ;) 07:07:22 thanks! 07:07:32 unkanon: no biggie, hang around and watch the chat ;) 07:07:36 great way to learn too 07:07:47 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:07:53 i will, i'm at work right now so i have to do some stuff and will be away when i can't talk, but i'll always be watching 07:07:58 yep definitely 07:08:08 unkanon: I don't talk that much ;) 07:08:24 i'll be watching your buffer then :) 07:08:56 unkanon: lol its up sometimes sometimes its not, I start it up when I'm answering questions. Beats pastebining things and beats screen or gobby by a mile 07:09:06 plus I don't have to leave emacs ;) 07:09:51 Good morning! 07:10:00 hi beach, long time no see :) 07:10:13 long time since I've gotten to say hi anyway ;) 07:10:13 hello beach 07:10:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nidjnnhetperdodi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:11:34 -!- unkanon is now known as unkanon-away 07:12:54 nixeagle: True, you have been on, but haven't been saying much. 07:13:05 beach: hacking! ;) 07:13:05 vng: Hey, how are preparations going? 07:13:30 beach: if you like, check this out http://i.nixeagle.net:8080/t :) 07:13:37 its a live emacs buffer :) 07:14:12 beach: It's fine. But I rush up to finish the semester before leaving 07:14:35 vng: I understand. 07:14:37 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:12 nixeagle: Is that your typing in real time? You need to learn to type faster :) 07:15:27 beach: not real time, its lagged by about 0.25 seconds ;) 07:15:36 the pull rate at the top there lies 07:15:52 Still... 07:16:14 thats just how quickly your client is actually checking _after_ an update 07:16:47 thwap! 07:16:49 beach: I'm not the fastest typer around but I don't finger type or anything and its late and I'm hitting backspace quite often ;) 07:16:55 its it is 07:17:10 I just did it again ;) 07:18:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 07:22:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tsikvzlbditiuayz] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 night all :) 07:23:27 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:26:32 mpasternacki [~user@pd95cb4c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:26:51 -!- mpasternacki [~user@pd95cb4c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 07:28:54 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:29:27 trebor_d` 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[~user@188.147.179.153.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:03:06 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ehodiiibhuqpglka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:09:55 -!- Arelius` is now known as Arelius 09:09:57 fe[nl]ix: any word on that iolib bug? i've just written a mail, i've managed to reproduce something using the examples 09:10:06 fe[nl]ix: transcript in the mail 09:12:55 aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has joined #lisp 09:17:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:18:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gwwjrejcerdeogdf] has joined #lisp 09:23:36 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:25:00 pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has joined #lisp 09:26:04 attila_lendvai: I'm looking at it now. wireshark shows that the connection isn't being closed 09:26:13 there's no FIN 09:26:27 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:28:16 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:28:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:30:03 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:30:12 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:31:26 psilord: ping 09:31:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@2001:200:141:7101:226:bbff:fe11:f1f4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:53 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:36:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:39:01 *attila_lendvai* installs wireshark 09:42:42 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:25 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-216-12.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [] 09:47:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:49:19 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:50:12 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:50:14 sicp in Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k 10:00:55 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66630d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 10:08:18 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:09:33 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:40 Good morning! 10:11:14 hi spiaggia 10:11:43 Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has joined #lisp 10:21:05 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-13-200.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:22:06 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.1] has joined #lisp 10:23:06 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:47 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:27:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.4] 10:30:02 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:30:59 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:17 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 10:36:48 I need to read something like "32,901" and turn it into a number 10:38:15 No idea how to handle the comma 10:38:36 ignore it? 10:38:58 yes I want to ignore it 10:39:07 Should I filter it first? 10:39:29 ignore as you go 10:39:59 I wonder if there's a built-in function 10:40:14 there is no 10:40:58 The dataset is huge. I see 10:41:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:42:11 (with-input-from-string (stream "32,901") (loop with integer = 0 for char = (read-char stream nil) while char unless (char= #\, char) do (setf integer (+ (* integer 10) (digit-char-p char))) finally (return integer))) => 32901 10:43:49 Thank you. The famouse C book like solution. 10:44:10 attila_lendvai: I think I found the bug 10:44:33 i don't know about any C book 10:47:26 Oh, Sorry. I didn 10:47:33 t mean to be rude in any way 10:47:52 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:58 neither did i 10:50:00 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:40 kenjin2201: cl-l10n might be able to help 10:50:49 e.g. (cl-l10n:parse-number "10,20" (cl-l10n:get-locale "de_DE")) 10:52:01 Thank you I'll try it 10:52:57 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:19 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:55:42 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-51-106.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:48 lichtblau: It works, without (get-locale "de DE") 10:56:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:56:46 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:51 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 attila_lendvai: committed 11:01:57 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:04:16 *attila_lendvai* looks at the diff for educational purposes 11:05:22 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:32 asarch [~asarch@189.188.157.218] has joined #lisp 11:06:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AC4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:49 pjb: ...wat 11:11:04 attila_lendvai: yeah, stupid bug 11:11:32 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:11:53 fe[nl]ix: well, either way, thanks for the fix! 11:13:12 green` [~user@12.187.246.2] has joined #lisp 11:13:48 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.179.153.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:49 antgreen [~user@12.187.246.2] has joined #lisp 11:20:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:24:07 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.83.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:31:37 -!- pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has left #lisp 11:32:06 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:34 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-161-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:33:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gwwjrejcerdeogdf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:33:50 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:17 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-13-200.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 11:36:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-emkgzfvysafxvngv] has joined #lisp 11:38:54 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:30 hello, is anyone here familiar with the ffi? I was looking to clarify a few things that my googling fails to clear up. 11:39:45 just ask your question 11:40:34 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:37 how compatible is lisps string type with c++'s std::string, first off. is it implemented as the eqiuivalent of a C char array? 11:40:44 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:27 orm: No. 11:42:06 orm: strings are described here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_string.htm 11:42:26 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 orm: you need to convert your strings on the FFI boundary unless you are making precautions in your lisp program and use implementation specific features 11:43:06 orm: CFFI is the preferred lib nowadays 11:43:22 I'll have to check the AUR for that then. 11:43:31 (archlinux ftw) 11:43:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has left #lisp 11:44:18 anyway, I was looking to create lisp bindings for a sprite renderer I wrote. However, with the reliance of single inheritance, it's going to be tricky to get it working. 11:44:52 unless I could pass lisp forms to the C++ code to be executed somehow 11:45:17 I could just use the classes as they are in that case. 11:45:28 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 with the addition of C function pointers. 11:46:53 orm: also note that due to the fact that C++ virtual method tables are ABI specific, most FFI infrastructures simply ignore C++ and only support the C layer 11:47:01 orm: don't install from AUR 11:47:14 -!- green` [~user@12.187.246.2] has left #lisp 11:47:18 orm: grab binary package of SBCL and then grab clbuild 11:47:27 minion: tell orm about linux-quickstart 11:47:27 orm: please look at linux-quickstart: Linux Common Lisp Quickstart (Emacs, SLIME and SBCL + clbuild): http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ 11:47:33 something wrong with the AUR bro? 11:48:09 orm: in the world where most people tend not to bother with full releases just mention "it's fixed in repo", yes :P 11:48:27 and most of my libraries have a C interface anyway. 11:49:31 orm: also, you can use SWIG to generate CFFI-based interfaces 11:49:53 UFFI is marginally supported iirc, and CLISP and Allegro got special support 11:50:34 but isn't there a way to interface CLOS with C++'s classes? or is the name wrangling that much of a problem 11:51:05 i had bad experiences with SWIG, then we worked on verrazzano, but read its TODO file if you go that way 11:51:31 orm: it's more like noone bothered... 11:52:02 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:52:03 bugger 11:52:09 orm: SWIG tries to write such interface, but I'm not sure regarding its reliability (though newest SWIG versions are quite good at parsin C++, the CFFI generator is still not far compared to rest) 11:52:40 verrazzano uses gcc-xml for parsing 11:52:48 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:53:06 I looked into writing a direct C++ binding and frankly speaking, the last pieces missing are more information on exceptions and time to implement it 11:53:15 attila_lendvai: do you use verrazzano in production? 11:53:27 I don't mind writing the lisp side. my main issues are /how/ I am going to have lisp and C++ interact 11:53:43 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:53:58 p_l: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.rdbms;a=headblob;f=/source/oracle/cffi.lisp was generated using it 11:54:08 the renderer uses a container class (this is all 2D, mind), to pass renderable objects to the rendering class. 11:54:12 orm: it's nearly impossible to manually write an interface to C++ classes unless you want to rewrite a big chunk of a C++ compiler 11:55:05 the container class has event methods that are called pre and post rendering 11:55:32 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:36 THATS where the issue lies. since I can't directly expose C++ objects to lisp, I have to figure out a workaround 11:56:26 which is why I said, if i can pass lisp forms down to C/C++ to be associated with function pointers, the classs could then call on those to do the work 11:56:30 orm: the renderer is in C++ and you want the event methods in Lisp? 11:56:36 basically yeah 11:56:47 but everything is exposed C style 11:56:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:09 orm: cffi allows you to define callbacks that can be exposed to foreign code (basically, function pointers). It works on SBCL and CCL 11:57:19 (and some others, but those are probably the ones you need) 11:57:46 I was thinking that I could have something like (slatefoo-pre-draw ()(dostuff)) 11:57:47 then 11:58:03 what I was working on included full subclassing of C++ classes in Lisp etc. :) 11:58:09 (gfx-set-slate-pre-draw ((slatefoo-pre-draw))) 11:58:39 orm: well you can pass the callback pointer to a function that will set it in apriopriate places 11:58:45 forgot mah defun in the slate function, but you get the idea 11:58:51 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-161-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:59:30 just as long as C++ classes can use C function pointers. I have had trouble with function pointers in the past 12:02:23 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:49 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:24 tbh, I am pretty clueless with lisp, but I'm reading PCL and I immediately thought to myself "God, this would be an awesome language to build a game with 12:05:47 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 12:06:06 orm: there's a whole channel set up for lisp game hackers, too 12:06:20 yeah, been in there 12:06:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756b3d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:48 one thing that puzzles me is some of the symbols used 12:06:57 let me find an example 12:07:28 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-112.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:42 #'foo 12:07:45 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-271.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:48 what's that all about 12:07:59 I've seen it prefox fporms as well 12:08:00 like 12:08:03 '(foo) 12:09:46 orm: #'thing is shorthand for (FUNCTION THING). 'thing is shorthand for (QUOTE THING). when evaluated, the former looks up THING as the name of a (possibly local) function and returns the function object so named (if it exists). the latter returns THING without evaluating it. 12:10:57 so basically you just plop a chunk of code wherever #'thing is 12:11:12 ? 12:11:12 Xach: which channel is setup for lisp game hackers ? 12:11:21 i'm interested :) 12:11:21 #lispgames 12:11:25 thank you 12:11:29 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8ED7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:38 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:12:31 orm: Who is "you" in that question? 12:13:00 ejs [~eugen@108-16-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:37 it 12:13:42 the call 12:13:56 #'thing basically puts a chunk of code wherever it is called, right? 12:14:26 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8ED7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:14:33 orm: No. It evaluates to a function object, which is something that can be funcalled or applied or passed around elsewhere as a value. 12:14:46 *Xach* tries to think of other operations on function objects 12:14:59 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-161-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:15:38 multiple-value-called 12:17:51 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has joined #lisp 12:18:16 ah, so it calls the function, evaluates it, then stores the value? 12:18:32 no 12:18:40 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 12:21:00 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:21:20 clhs multiple-value-call 12:21:20 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_multip.htm 12:21:33 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:47 Xach: seems like that's a faq for you :) You helped me with that in the past too (I think) 12:21:49 G'morning all. 12:21:52 moin nyef 12:23:50 hi nyef 12:23:50 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:32 *Xach* lives to serve 12:25:00 Xach: actually, what do you do for a living? 12:26:25 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 12:28:37 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:01 madnificent: hack 12:29:21 Randomly? 12:29:35 No way. 12:29:37 Odin-: he probably knows the aliens whom helpt us build lisp ^_^ 12:30:52 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@67.111.42.189.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:31:32 Aliens of irish descent! 12:32:03 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:26 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:37:27 ... why irish? 12:38:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthy_(surname) 12:39:28 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:41:20 ah 12:42:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:23 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 12:42:39 -!- sdkmvx [~martin@unaffiliated/sdkmvx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:43:18 stassats: on 64bit SBCL 1.0.38 I get "Lock on package SB-VM violated when interning AH-TN." 12:44:07 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:44:08 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.252.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:44:08 oh, i didn't test on 64-bit, will do 12:44:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:48 lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.249.98] has joined #lisp 12:45:04 stassats: we don't enable high byte tns on x86-64, because they only exist for legacy instructions. 12:47:23 -!- antgreen [~user@12.187.246.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:15 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:48:26 *nyef* has, on more than one occasion, resorted to encoding instructions by hand either to save having to extend the assembler or because the assembler does something not right with what the input should be. 12:48:55 doxygen xml export is also an option besides gcc-xml and swig for c++ 12:49:25 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:37 aerique: does it export only declarations ? 12:49:38 nyef: was it you who'd started working on a dwarf2 reader? 12:50:05 No, not me. 12:50:26 fe[nl]ix: i'm not sure what you mean 12:51:16 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:07 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 12:55:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:56:15 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:00:15 Xach: l1sp.org is handy! 13:03:14 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:04:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 madnificent: glad you find it so. 13:04:31 *Xach* has been using /search more often since someone reminded him it exists 13:07:42 -!- MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has left #lisp 13:08:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:46 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:07 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:28 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-65-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:51 kn1ght [~knight@adsl-71-142-80-143.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:31:12 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-98-118-48-156.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:11 fe[nl]ix: the same approach wouldn't work on x86-64, so i turned that vop off 13:35:34 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:50 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:39:33 -!- ejs [~eugen@108-16-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:00 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:41:57 or maybe it would work 13:43:26 maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:36 ejs [~eugen@105-7-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:23 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:46:07 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:52:57 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 13:56:10 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:47 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:05:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:05 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111054.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:45 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:42 can you feel the excitement building? 14:18:45 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:49 that's ILC excitement! 14:19:57 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 14:20:27 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:23:36 TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.74.19.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:25:30 I just thought it was a touch of hayfever 14:26:25 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 14:27:04 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:17 I thought it was the buildup of a patch backlog due to SBCL code freeze. 14:27:30 (Okay, I -hoped- it was the buildup of a patch backlog...) 14:29:01 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:31:33 nyef: Don't worry the gates will be lifted soon, and then the deluge of patches can flow again 14:31:42 Riight. 14:31:55 We had -twelve- patches over the past month. 14:32:04 I think everyone had an attack of real life or something. 14:32:11 (Or maybe heatstroke.) 14:32:21 -!- maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:24 Maybe SBCL is just got so good.... 14:32:28 is/has 14:32:40 WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 One look at the bug tracker should disabuse you of that notion. 14:33:52 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:34:01 But...if I don't look at I can convince myself that I am using the most advance CL implementation available to a humble lisper 14:34:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:32 And if you -do- look at it, you can work to help it remain the most advanced CL implementation available to a humble lisper. 14:35:34 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:19 After I figure out YUI, hehe 14:37:16 The Yahoo javascript framework if you are wondering 14:38:33 what would be the lisp equivalent of #include 14:38:36 or am I thinking wrong 14:38:51 orm: #include to what purpose? 14:39:06 to make code from other files accessible 14:39:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zmjxzknyeswxbmbx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:12 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:22 nyef: lowtag tricks? (: 14:39:51 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:56 pkhuong: Possibly. Right now I'm chasing up a possible less-invasive fix to a package-system problem I found. 14:40:24 Lowtag tricks only has that specialize-array-type stuff left, right? 14:40:47 how do I break a program into more than one file, is what I am trying to say? 14:40:56 orm: I wrote a bit about how I do that 14:41:08 nyef: I think so. And even that was mostly fixed, no? 14:41:09 orm: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is it 14:41:18 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:37 pkhuong: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure there was a test case for it. Is it caught via :sb-test, or do we need something stronger? 14:41:49 *nyef* has never actually used :sb-test, so that's also on the list to try. 14:42:11 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:42:18 I frankly don't remember anything about that branch. 14:42:24 Fair enough. 14:43:11 I think it is about the last thing, though. 14:43:45 ok, I think I getcha. as long as the files are compiled together and the program finds the packages, it will all work 14:43:48 right? 14:44:06 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:44:13 orm: There can be build-time dependencies if you're using special variables or macros, but otherwise right. 14:44:15 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 that's where this enigmatic asdf file comes into play, right? 14:45:12 More or less, yes. 14:45:15 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 14:45:39 ok, so asdf files are essentially like C makefiles? 14:46:03 orm: they're for similar purposes 14:46:06 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756b3d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:46 alright, I think I'm starting to get it now =) 14:47:15 I'm a bit scaed though, the more lisp I write, the more I start to dislike C++ 14:47:22 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:47:25 scared* 14:47:44 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:49 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:47:49 And this is scary because...? 14:48:18 orm: That's a common problem. It can also result in alienation from coding colleagues, who go "lisp this lisp that, get on with the work". 14:48:21 Bah. You just have to figure out the part of C++ that you like. 14:48:34 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:46 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:48:56 The part of C++ that I like is... umm... the semicolons? 14:48:58 pkhuong: Is that possible? 14:49:02 well, C++ is awesome for design, but sucks when it comes to API's. C is strong where C++ isn't. and lisp just seems to do everything 14:49:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:59 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:03 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:50:10 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:14 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:50:18 C++ is awesome for design? 14:50:18 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:50:37 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:50:44 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:45 I think its the tagged on OO 14:50:50 nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has joined #lisp 14:50:59 C just seems to make everything easier and harder at the same time 14:51:27 ... C++ awesome for design?... ;_; 14:51:42 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:08 I'm here having anxiety attack about chances for continuing my studies and someone comes in and kills me with "C++ awesome for design"... 14:52:10 I've always figured that the most awesome design tool out there was the fountain pen. 14:52:33 nyef: I prefer a H2 or H4 pencil 14:52:38 nyef: Surely the pencil is far superior 14:52:55 HB is too weak 14:53:07 Guthur: The trouble with pencils is that they require more pressure to make a decent mark. 14:53:43 (Same problem with ballpoints.) 14:53:45 *Odin-* prefers whiteboard markers and the surfaces that go along with them. 14:53:57 Not exactly permanent, but then, what is? 14:54:04 whiteboard wall you mean :) 14:54:26 p_l: Well, the discussion seemed to concern itself with writing instruments. ;) 14:54:29 I hear that some places use windows as said surfaces. 14:54:37 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 14:54:45 I meant internal low level design 14:54:47 nyef: ok, I agree, a fountain pen can be good when you want varying thickness (I learned a little about using fountain pens for drawing, back when I tried making comics) 14:55:07 orm: the internal low level design of C++ is C with crazy exception system tacked on. 14:55:14 been there, seen that, got sick. 14:55:21 afk 14:55:33 And, yes, I've used everything from glass through clear plastic to whiteboards for that sort of mucking about. 14:57:38 p_l: I don't use a single try-catch block in my code 14:57:42 fucking hate that shit 14:58:01 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:58:27 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:00:32 no need for feelings here. when you code in c++ you use exceptions. when you code in c++... that is. 15:00:49 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:00:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:39 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:04:04 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:38 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:55 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 p_l: whiteboard markers work great on windows and mirrors too! 15:08:17 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.228.137.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:58 clhs remove 15:11:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 15:12:30 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:12:57 Hmm, can you think of an author who releases .tar.gz files of their projects with a static relationship between the URL of the file and the name of the project? 15:13:08 besides me, froydnj, and edi weitz, that is 15:13:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:19 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.180.223] has joined #lisp 15:13:20 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:13:44 Not once they've released a second version, no. Typically there's a version number involved in the filename 15:14:18 That causes cliki pain. 15:14:37 lacking version number causes user pain 15:14:46 No, it doesn't. It causes ASDF-INSTALL pain. 15:14:57 attila_lendvai: foo-latest.tar.gz 15:15:09 Anyway, I don't care about these digressions. Can you think of people who follow the practice I described? 15:15:27 Yes, that's a common solution. A -latest symlink, which would at least paper over the asdf-install nonsense. 15:16:12 I don't see "foo-latest.tar.gz" as substantially different from "foo.tar.gz" for the purposes of my curiosity. 15:16:46 Users like version numbers our tarballs thankyouverymuch. 15:18:03 Xach: Just pointing out that doing things your way is pretty much zero-cost over versioned tarballs. 15:19:01 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:19:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 15:19:48 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:57 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20055D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 -!- vng [~user@123.21.161.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:59 hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:26:37 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:28 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:28:28 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:12 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:06 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-190-142.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:18 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:31:34 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:34 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:32:06 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:44 -!- Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:30 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:37 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-fejdzcbfeekplzfd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:04 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:42:13 faridcmi [~afrounef@41.104.124.73] has joined #lisp 15:43:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-51-106.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:43:49 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.116.56] has joined #lisp 15:44:30 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-189-87.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:58 horze [~kim@c-8e0272d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:03 vonli [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 15:49:40 -!- s00p [~shitag1@219-90-211-89.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:21 vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 15:50:49 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-2E21CFB1.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:51:11 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:51:16 gz_ [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:05 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:05 -!- gz_ is now known as gz 15:52:40 s00p [~Seb@219-90-211-89.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:53:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:42 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 chris_7 [~chris@129-97-120-150.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:56:31 I've started (as of this morning) seeing a failure for SB-BSD-SOCKETS-TEST::INET-SOCKET-BIND. 15:56:56 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:18 Some sort of generic "SOCKET-ERROR". 15:58:04 maybe some new os security setting or similar? or service running on a port? 15:58:30 Haven't changed anything configwise recently. 15:58:43 -!- faridcmi [~afrounef@41.104.124.73] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:59:04 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.163.216.98] has joined #lisp 15:59:45 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@178.182.74.19.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:06 Oh, and I have a one-line fix for the thing I found for getting two symbols with the same name to appear in DO-SYMBOLS by careful use of IMPORT. 16:01:16 Test case at http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/commitdiff/032ea77ef79d3629cf024eef83d500c8d5b07ec7 and committage of the test-case and cheap fix anticipated post-freeze. 16:01:53 (The cheap fix is the careful placement of a (setf syms (remove (car found) syms)) into IMPORT.) 16:03:24 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:04:30 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:06:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:08 -!- chris_7 [~chris@129-97-120-150.uwaterloo.ca] has left #lisp 16:07:57 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:08:27 hello 16:08:37 hello kiuma 16:08:46 [and good afternoon everyone] 16:08:57 what chan I use to handle IMAP(+SSL) in CL ? 16:09:04 hello beach 16:09:33 Hello kiuma, beach. 16:09:37 I'm very bored by horde and I want to implement my webmail with CLAW 16:09:43 hi nyef 16:09:52 kiuma: mel-base, maybe? 16:10:12 good afternoon beach // hello kiuma 16:10:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:42 kiuma: and check ##lispweb more often :D 16:11:20 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:27 lol ciao madnificent, :) I've to finish a complex java application meanwhile 16:11:49 then I've also started EFL (enlightenment) binding project 16:12:19 whats the binding project about? 16:12:21 CLAW (portal) is a bit staled (on the TODO things) :) 16:12:25 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:38 madnificent, do you know enlightenment ? 16:12:49 the window manager? 16:12:55 yep 16:13:07 I'm binding elementary 16:13:21 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-emkgzfvysafxvngv] has left #lisp 16:13:30 and a bit of evas, after it 16:13:55 -!- ejs [~eugen@105-7-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:14:09 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-2E21CFB1.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 16:14:17 I want to create my own widgets :) for my cool desktop 16:14:35 madnificent: regarding windows - military and aviation know that glass is great writing material for more than half a century now :-) 16:15:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15:15 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:36 bhyde` [~user@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:48 p_l: does that make me a military scientist, or a movie-script writer? 16:16:29 *madnificent* 's idea of cool desktop is different from enlightenment's idea :) 16:16:31 sounds fun though 16:17:05 enlightenment though got some wicked fast rendering code last time I checked 16:17:28 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:17:37 -!- bhyde` [~user@70.88.254-65-Lynn.MA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 16:17:38 attila_lendvai: how usable are bindings to Oracle in perec? 16:17:47 -!- vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 16:17:53 vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 16:18:16 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:18:36 p_l: mostly works but not in production yet 16:18:48 hlavaty: thanks 16:19:08 no problem 16:19:19 just got some info that a system at university might be viable to being rewritten, if someone can give a competetive price, I think :) 16:19:44 and they already invested a lot in Oracle... 16:19:49 rewritten in lisp & oracle? 16:19:55 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 16:20:03 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.116.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:24 *attila_lendvai* is afk, will be back in some hours 16:20:47 wow a university invests a lot in oracle? 16:20:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:56 where is that? 16:21:26 hlavaty: I meant "already invested", as in "got a fuckton of stuff running on Oracle" 16:21:51 so I just used swig to generate a wrapper and oh god it's awesome o.o 16:21:51 gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:08 hlavaty: and I expect being able to show some kind of oracle compatibility to be a way to drive a wedge into doors to keep them open ;-) 16:22:10 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:42 p_l: i've roughly finished the port, say v0.1, see http://www.knowledgetools.de/tmp/temporaer/tomas/index.html 16:23:45 orm: well, it's definitely easier than writing from scratch 16:24:16 now the first 90% is done, we'll be doing the other 90% to make it production quality 16:24:40 p_l: No kidding. It even wrapped a logger class for me (even though it was unnecessary) 16:24:51 it got caught in the crossfire 16:25:32 hlavaty: nice. 16:25:34 the nice thing is we'll be able to choose between pg and ora; at the moment pg works well for hu.dwim guys 16:26:11 hlavaty: My personal choice is always postgres, but having Oracle in the "features" might get bonus points with PHBs 16:26:26 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:07 Symbol "UNIX-FILE-KIND" not found in the SB-UNIX package. What is it ? 16:29:26 Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.208.247] has joined #lisp 16:30:29 kiuma: Where'd you find a reference to it? 16:31:02 nyef, what I try (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :mel-base) 16:31:11 Ah. 16:31:19 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:22 Perhaps it was removed at some point? 16:31:26 :( 16:31:35 SB-UNIX is a "private" package, so we're allowed to do that. 16:31:58 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:32:16 yep, and it seems I can't use mel as is :/ 16:32:26 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:38 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:15 p_l: i would prefer pg too, but ora is a customers requirement 16:34:21 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:34:27 do you already use perec? 16:34:47 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:44 am I the only that want to create an email client in CL ? is there only mel ? 16:37:39 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:06 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:52 hlavaty: I was looking at postmodern, rofl and lately perec, I found a nice tutorial and decided to go for perec, despite fighting to get perec working (I lost notes though) 16:38:59 ah I have dev-lisp/mel-base-0.8.0-r1 16:41:03 -!- s00p [~Seb@219-90-211-89.ip.adam.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:25 <_3b> Xach: does a static link to an automatically generated tarball of the current repo head (or particular branch) count? github (and probably most version control web interfaces) has that 16:42:41 _3b: maybe. 16:43:27 <_3b> probably lacks the 'release' part for most projects though 16:43:37 mattrepl [~mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:46 p_l: yeah it's not trivial to get perec up and running, it has lots of dependencies 16:44:30 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:46:49 WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:52 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:47:26 WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:16 hlavaty: dependencies weren't that much of a problem 16:49:13 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:04 namely, modifying all those defpackages to make them use :shadowing-import-from instead of :use for closer-mop 16:50:33 ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has joined #lisp 16:51:10 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:10 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:51:10 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 why not just use "C2CL" package? 16:52:02 p_l: what's the problem with closer-mop? 16:52:06 stassats: does it shadow CLOS symbols? 16:52:35 hlavaty: closer-mop clashed with symbols defined in :CL 16:52:36 no 16:53:04 p_l: just use something like c2mop:xxx then ;-) 16:53:14 and I think in few places I directly patched to use sb-mop: 16:53:34 p_l: it reexports all needed symbols 16:53:39 from CL and CLOSER-MOP 16:53:49 i believe we already had this discussion 16:53:53 when did you try it? it might not be an issue now, it works both on sbcl and allegro 16:54:03 hlavaty: what do you think is easier, write :shadowing-import-from :closer-mop or finding every sodding defclass/defgeneric/defmethod? 16:54:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:54:32 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:34 p_l: i think easist ist to get the latest version :-D 16:54:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:55:04 i think it's easier to :use :c2cl, but who's gonna believe me? 16:55:08 stassats: we had, but that c2mop reexports them in a way to avoid the clash wasn't mentioned, and by that time I was asking about adding nicknames instead of going around name clashes 16:56:25 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA5E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:45 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0088-174-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 16:58:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:57 WePac [~bubble@p54AA4096.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:23 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:24 how do I read a string like this ? 17:02:31 "=?iso-8859-1?Q?SMARTeSolutions=20EXCEPTION=20Report=20:=20Eligible=20eMeter=20Devices=20:=20Date=20:=2002=20Feb=202009=20(1=20of=201)?=" 17:02:39 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:41 from left to right 17:02:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:55 haha 17:03:36 kiuma: =????= 17:03:46 kiuma: i don't know what standard describes the format. maybe a MIME rfc. 17:03:49 kiuma: use a url munging library 17:03:59 -!- gz [~gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gz] 17:04:10 dlowe, where is it ? 17:04:14 url libraries do quoted-printable? 17:04:50 oh, yeah. urls use % 17:05:22 it's a mail subject I'm extracting using mel 17:05:47 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:06:20 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 17:06:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:13 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 17:10:15 -!- BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has left #lisp 17:10:15 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:11:14 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.166.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:23 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:11:52 mmm... 17:13:40 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:45 I think I'll have to look at some of the php code :( 17:14:19 aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:38 kiuma: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2047.txt 17:14:59 kiuma: that gives the procedure for interpreting a string like that. 17:15:18 Xach, thanks a lot 17:15:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:15:38 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:59 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA94DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:10 somnium` [~user@adsl-243-26-202.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:20 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 17:18:47 I think I'll have to implement a rfc822 parser if there isn't anyone 17:19:38 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-186-62.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:04 kiuma: sorry, I just have a rfc2822 parser. :-( http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=05a083d89e6960b6fabdd6f13fb12293572236ae&hb=5b22e7eab73f004ef00d478a119d5f4582174018&f=common-lisp/rfc2822.lisp 17:20:22 pjb, thanks 17:20:28 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:45 (It's not the only one, but that's what you get for not using google ;-) ) 17:20:53 pjb: that's some old-school capitals there :) 17:21:31 dlowe: there's an emacs function to upcase or downcase lisp sources in here: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/emacs&h=3c7e10b808a2c36dda691edb470b41ea372ac171&hb=eaa66ab9fd29c38af8fe54edbbd4f1b1599ac633&f=pjb-sources.el 17:21:36 pjb: rfc 2822 has been obsoleted by 5322 17:21:44 Damn! 17:22:09 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:22:13 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:46 pjb: http://tinyurl.com/36ecucr 17:22:51 is rfc2822 used for mail? 17:23:31 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:53 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:10 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:21 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.76] has joined #lisp 17:31:54 Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:34:40 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:06 bye bye 17:36:36 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:37:50 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:30 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1B6B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:00 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has joined #lisp 17:42:52 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:43:32 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:33 somnium`` [~user@adsl-65-178-226.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:02 segv [~mb@p4FC1BDE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:19 -!- somnium` [~user@adsl-243-26-202.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:30 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.208.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:39 -!- somnium`` [~user@adsl-65-178-226.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 17:47:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.89.221] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 drewc` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:55:55 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:59 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:58:15 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:46 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-59-245.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:01:18 -!- Raynes [~macr0@unaffiliated/raynes] has left #lisp 18:04:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:52 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:44 -!- aw [~aw@xhss48-406aa.wh13.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 18:06:45 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:14:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:08 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:16:17 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:46 well, I was able to generate full bindings. awesome. 18:20:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7EAB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:22:21 HG` [~HG@xdslfa070.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:12 daniel [~daniel@p5082B8EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:28 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082E418.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:46 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:34:52 astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-80.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:35:31 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:46 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-152-71-13.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:38 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 Question: Is there any way to approximate when an app would run into the heap limit on LispWorks? 18:37:04 jmckitrick: I will go with no. 18:37:51 I know it wouldn't be easy, but I didn't know if anyone had experience if the limit were generous or more strict. 18:37:52 <_3b`> depends on what you know about the app (and about lw) 18:38:24 Obviously loads of consing and data could do it. But I've not run into it yet. Just the time limit. 18:38:43 <_3b`> the free version you mean? 18:39:13 Thinking of working on a personal app, and I don't want to commit to CAPI if it's going to kick me out any time soon. McCLIM would be the choice, in that case. 18:39:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:39:26 LW/CAPI versus SBCL/McClim, that is. 18:39:48 I think commiting to CAPI would involve paying for it. 18:40:03 <_3b`> from what i understand the free lw heap limit is pretty low, at least for stuff i do 18:40:22 Since this app would only be for myself, there's no distribution to worry about. 18:41:20 For me a time limit would get darned annoying even if the app was only for meself :) 18:41:41 *nyef* thinks that both options are less than palatable. 18:42:30 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:47 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 18:42:51 *_3b`* can hit the sbcl win32 heap limit just compiling stuff though, so i might just be weird :p 18:43:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.4] 18:43:31 jmckitrick: Maybe you need to implement openCAPI :) 18:44:50 chris_7 [~chris@129-97-120-150.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:45:08 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:14 -!- chris_7 [~chris@129-97-120-150.uwaterloo.ca] has left #lisp 18:48:09 -!- orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:21 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.211.175] has joined #lisp 18:48:30 -!- Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:13 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:42 nyef: is there a better option? 18:58:15 Depends on target platform, how much work you want to do, what you think of the other libraries and bindings, etc. 18:59:57 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:03:04 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:57 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 19:09:06 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@110.224.89.221] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 19:10:33 pers [~user@167.sub-75-231-66.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:00 aw [~aw@p5DDA8E59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:41 jmckitrick: You may also want to consider CCL and it's FFI. It rocks, it works, it's reliable, it does "sanity checking", but most of all, it's relatively easy to generate C bindings with the help of a modified GCC version (the FFIGEN-tool). 19:15:25 hmm 19:15:36 *Xach* needs paredit support for balanced |s for symbols 19:17:59 Can someone with SBCL knowhow please look at http://paste.lisp.org/+25KG 19:18:38 I am trying to muffle a style warning that occures with the use of COMPILE, but for the love of lisp I just can't find the right incantation. 19:18:49 easy fix! don't use &optional and &key! 19:18:54 sorry, i don't have a real answer :( 19:20:21 Xach: thanks, I thought of that one. ;) 19:21:01 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:22:08 <_3b`> do you need the COMPILE? 19:22:14 _3b`: yes 19:22:35 I'm getting function definitions over the wire and generating function wrappers that RPC call. 19:22:40 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:06 Several of the definitions have &key &optional and I'd love to muffle the warning. 19:24:40 <_3b`> looks like you can coerce it to a function inside locally, or eval the locally form 19:25:22 _3b`: nice. thanks. 19:26:29 TR2N [email@89-180-176-198.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 19:26:45 <_3b`> oops, coerce doesn't work, missed a ' 19:27:19 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-17-207-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 (compile nil '(lambda () (declare ...) (lambda ...)))? 19:27:34 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:27:55 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:28:59 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:23 _3b`: eval works. 19:29:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:46 pkhuong: then I would have to funcall the results to get the function it need, but your idea works also. 19:30:02 pers: indeed. That's how eval usually works in SBCL. 19:30:37 pkhuong: thanks alot. 19:35:49 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:37:52 hm. Why is the allocation of an indirect value cell conditioned upon the dynamic-extentness of the variable binding, rather than the closure accessing it. That seems wrong. 19:39:13 foom: what happens when there are multiple closures that access it? 19:39:38 pkhuong: the obvious thing: if any of them require it to be non-dx, make it non-dx? 19:39:53 How can I evaluate a PS form's symbols as JS only eg. (create ...) is a used in PS but I want to use a JS create function. 19:40:06 I'm sure there is something but I can't find it 19:40:12 But yeah, that's an issue. Probably part of the reason why it's so hard to get dx value cells. 19:40:15 I mean, it doesn't just seem like a missing optimization to me, it seems *wrong*. 19:41:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 and what's leaf-has-source-name about? 19:43:50 foom: If you can guarantee that only that binding refers to the closure and thus the cell it would be correct. 19:43:54 Got it, you can wrap it in a progn, probably some better method 19:44:37 foom: probably to determine if the variable is "real" or a temporary variable introduced by transformations, etc. 19:45:28 Zhivago: I don't believe destroying the binding itself is allowed by the definition of dynamic-extent. 19:45:45 -!- pers [~user@167.sub-75-231-66.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 19:47:48 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:53 pkhuong: the other places it's called seem to be with function nodes. 19:48:22 <_3b`> Guthur: i think you can use a symbol from another package (maybe :create ?) 19:48:26 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:49:37 foom: that also works to trigger transforms and all. 19:50:19 _3b`: Keywords get converted to strings 19:51:09 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:52:48 pkhuong: can you even ever get an unnamed node which is dynamic extent? 19:53:09 oh, of course you can, via another dx node 19:53:21 foom: right. 19:53:35 <_3b`> Guthur: ok, couldn't remember if that worked or if i had to make a new package 19:53:40 dxness is contagious for anonymous nodes. 19:53:59 _3b`: (progn create) works well enough 19:54:13 hypno: CCL... that's not a half-bad idea. Comes with IDE, cocoa examples... probably integrates well with slime.... 19:54:13 but it'd never be asked to make a value cell for one of those 19:55:06 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:12 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:56:47 foom: I haven't even looked at the code, and there's a certain amount of cargo culting. 19:58:52 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-152-71-13.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:06 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.157.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:42 colinf [~user@host81-132-254-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:07 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-180-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:59 marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has joined #lisp 20:04:39 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20055D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 20:07:57 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20055D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:15 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:09:15 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:03 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-80.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:13:24 abend [~alx@75-175-127-202.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 tantan__ [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 20:15:15 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 20:15:48 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:16:17 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:20 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:01 qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:19:26 Phoodus [foo@174-22-216-12.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:00 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 20:20:06 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:33 marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has joined #lisp 20:21:03 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:14 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-24-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:05 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:09 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.133.171.82] has joined #lisp 20:26:52 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:22 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-161-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:30:39 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:32:13 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:38 Can anyone give me a neural network framework for CL? 20:33:03 I think there are a couple in the common lisp directory. 20:33:33 psilord1 [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:33:35 ...What? 20:33:46 cl-user.net 20:33:49 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 20:33:53 OK. 20:34:40 ...Searching for "neural" yields nothing. 20:37:30 I thought Lisp was the Language of AI. 20:37:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:00 I thought that unicorns ate cheese whiz. 20:38:40 Oh, well. 20:38:48 My insane idea must wither and die 20:39:52 Why so, Neural Net implementation is well documentated 20:39:58 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:01 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 20:40:01 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:40:39 maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 Maybe try looking for specific kinds of "neural" networks? 20:40:49 -!- maden [~maden@66.9.131.53] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:53 Oh, yeah. 20:41:18 Failing that, they shouldn't be hard to implement, really. 20:41:30 It's not for anything useful. 20:42:03 (Though I shudder to think what'd happen if I tried, given what happened with CLIM transformation matrices.) 20:42:26 What happened? 20:43:00 http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/lisp-tex-test-2.png 20:43:23 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-189-87.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:43:29 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-189-87.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:50 Maybe the real problem isn't really in emit-make-value-cell, but in that it's being asked to make one at all? I suppose a dx function ought to be able to directly access the variables in its enclosing function's stackframe. 20:44:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.133.171.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:34 foom: If it can find the frame, sure. 20:44:38 nyef: Wouldn't frameworks for specific neural network types still have the word "neural" somewhere in their entry? 20:44:51 Phantom_Hoover: Probably not, no. 20:45:23 *Phantom_Hoover* goes off and researches types of NN 20:45:25 Take Restricted Boltzmann Machines, for example. 20:45:26 nyef: you mean: if sbcl knew how to pass the frame pointer as a closure argument. 20:45:32 foom: Yeah, like that. 20:45:43 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:50 foom: Of course, at that point, just stack-allocate the value-cell anyway, right? 20:46:31 nyef: why stack-allocate the value cell when you can just not even make one? 20:47:02 (of course, sbcl already has code to be able to stack-allocate the value cells, it's just that it's completely broken) 20:47:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:19 I wonder whether it's harder to fix it or to make a new thing. :P 20:47:32 hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-47-102.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:47:57 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 20:52:53 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-108-118.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:33 Guess it's not a bad thing that I haven't tried to sort out the d-x test failures on PPC yet. 20:55:07 <_3b`> anyone bored and want to help load test my websocket server so i can put off writing actual tests longer? http://3bb.cc/tmp/ws-test.html 20:55:18 <_3b`> (requires chrome nightly or flash) 20:55:20 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:46 <_3b`> might take a bit to load outside chrome nightlies too 20:57:31 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:59:33 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-6-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:57 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfa070.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:31 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:53 <_3b`> hmm, i see downloads on the web server, but no connections... guess i need to debug some more 21:03:42 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:03:49 I got a page, if that helps. 21:04:21 <_3b`> ah, there is a connection 21:04:30 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:08:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:20 <_3b`> ok, might connect faster now on the non-chrome browsers if anyone else wants to try 21:09:51 Ooh, found a neural network library. 21:10:12 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:16:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:46 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:52 -!- Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has quit [Quit: Bye bye Kansas!] 21:20:31 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:56 -!- colinf [~user@host81-132-254-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: done] 21:22:42 colinf [~user@host81-132-254-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:21 Guest25487 [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:23 _3b`: works for me, FF 3.something-or-other 21:25:46 -!- Guest25487 [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:06 _3b`: very neat indeed, first time i've actually seen websockets in action 21:27:50 i don't see the advantage of websockets over ajax really . . . 21:28:09 <_3b`> now i just need to figure out how to keep it from using all my ram and such if it gets DOSed :) 21:28:22 <_3b`> c|mell: lower overhead for one thing 21:28:39 not really :) 21:28:54 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:01 i'll take you head to head with websockets against tpd2 ajax :) 21:29:45 <_3b`> how many messages can you send per connection with ajax/comet/whatever? 21:29:51 by AJAX you mean asyncronous javascript and XML? or you mean xmlhttprequest? or comet? 21:29:52 *_3b`* doesn't know much about that stuff 21:30:21 http persistence means that you reuse the same connection 21:30:23 it's great 21:30:32 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 21:30:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:39 Guest35959 [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 anyone know of an LLVM API wrapper for lisp? 21:33:17 <_3b`> yeah, if you can keep 1 http connection open indefinitely, and send stuff both ways on it, it probably doesn't add much 21:33:21 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:34:02 -!- Guest35959 [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:31 save a reasonable API and the lack of browser-specific hacks, a well defined protocol, and a standardisation process 21:34:38 err 21:34:45 well, you get the idea 21:34:57 *drewc`* is having trouble parsing his own words 21:35:52 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:35:54 -!- drewc` is now known as drewc 21:36:40 <_3b`> yeah, using things as intended instead of forcing random protocols to do strange things was my main reason for using it :) 21:37:23 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 21:37:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:49 drewc`, You don't have to use XML with XMLHttpRequest 21:38:59 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:02 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:24 It's just in the name but you can send whatever you like in a text format, I usually use Json 21:39:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:37 -!- colinf [~user@host81-132-254-192.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: done] 21:39:48 Guthur: i was writing ajax applications in 1999, and have been using xmlhttprequest since microsoft invented it. I know. 21:40:15 drewc, My apologies I read you earlier message wrong 21:40:24 you/your 21:40:40 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-161-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 (we didn't call it ajax then, and we didn't have iframes, but we had framesets and javascript) 21:41:45 I don't like the term ajax 21:41:46 *_3b`* wonders if any of the other ws servers have stress tests i can use 21:41:56 It's rather meaningless imo 21:42:28 People throw it around all the time without a thought 21:43:53 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-59-245.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:07 Jabberwockey [~jens@82.113.106.148] has joined #lisp 21:49:33 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.180.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:35 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-56.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:50:23 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:12 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:52:24 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:33 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:53:13 -!- abend [~alx@75-175-127-202.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:32 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:56:55 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:18 orm [~orm@pool-70-104-233-12.fred.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:33 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:58:51 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:59:36 does CFFI just hate clisp? 21:59:38 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-98-118-48-156.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:59:41 or is it just me 21:59:52 because that bastard doesn't want to build for whatever reason 22:00:25 *_3b`* would expect it to work 22:01:02 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:46 peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-191-72-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:23 maybe I should just use ECL or something 22:03:26 or sbcl 22:03:45 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:14 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:20 <_3b`> you could also try saying what you did and how it didn't work, and maybe someone can tell you how to fix it :p 22:05:15 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 22:05:21 <_3b`> using sbcl might be good (or bad) for other reasons though 22:08:12 TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.16.56.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:08:35 well, the asdf package is what is giving me problems 22:10:28 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:12:13 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:08 cffi comes with sbcl right? 22:14:24 <_3b`> not that i know of 22:15:45 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-207-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:01 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:18:51 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:19:09 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 22:20:24 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:43 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:31 orm: Are you having asdf-install woes? 22:22:36 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:47 Guthur: YYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS 22:22:58 try clbuild 22:23:36 The pain is greatly reduced. 22:24:02 It has probably been recommend already 22:25:19 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 22:25:47 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:42 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:28:54 Guthur: in order to get cffi installed though, I need to get alexandria installed, which needs asdf 22:29:08 minion: tell orm about clbuild 22:29:09 orm: please see clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 22:29:23 orm: asdf is _not_ asdf-install 22:29:25 <_3b`> orm: asdf != asdf-install 22:29:49 <_3b`> (sbcl does come with asdf if that is what you meant to ask earlier though) 22:30:58 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-11-44-235.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 22:32:07 screw it, I'll use sbcl 22:34:01 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-191-72-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:17 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:35:40 orm: Really, check out clbuild, it will do it all for you 22:36:13 sbcl took care of it. I'll be sure to check out clbuild though, seeing as how much trouble asdf gave me 22:36:40 xan_ [~xan@83.32.114.158] has joined #lisp 22:36:43 so I'm curious, is there a common location for lisp libraries? 22:36:58 like in C there's /usr/bin, anything like that? 22:36:59 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.16.56.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:37:30 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:37:53 nope 22:38:01 =| 22:38:46 peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-191-72-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 -!- hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-11-44-235.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Guess there's no point in having two of me.] 22:40:35 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA4096.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:40:36 orm: it depends on your sistem 22:41:09 in emacs, for instance 22:41:15 all is stored (by defualt) in /usr/local/share/emacs/ 22:41:22 woaah.. found the install directory 22:41:31 /usr/share/sbcl-source 22:43:45 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:44:00 can't wait to reinstall arch on my laptop. damn classes forcing me to use windows 22:44:13 virtualbox :) 22:44:31 shit laptop =/ 22:44:36 it's a luck i won't study informatics as my career 22:44:55 tunneled through to my arch box right now 22:45:00 -!- prip [~foo@host37-220-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:34 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-112.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:32 something else I noticed though, is the single colon like a scoping operator or something? 22:51:12 orm: what do you mean? 22:51:14 (:)? 22:51:27 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:41 no, like in the case of (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'clx) 22:51:56 package:command right? 22:51:58 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:52:05 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:52:27 also, the hell is the ' all about? what makes 'foo different from foo 22:52:52 orm: that those are basic common lisp questions 22:52:57 interesting tone. 22:52:58 start form 22:53:04 a good cl book 22:53:12 or you might try this tutorial: 22:53:26 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/ 22:53:41 sure it's explained there better than i could explain 22:53:45 hefner: sorry, I am just realizing that there is alot I have to un-learn 22:53:57 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:07 orm: Please read http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf to learn about Lisp packages. 22:54:33 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-6.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:45 orm: also http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/packages.html is another option 22:55:03 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:57 argh 22:57:11 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@82.113.106.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:57:49 prip [~foo@host92-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:59:39 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:00:06 I have this hack, which shadows foo:defun and does (defmacro defun ... (cl:defun ...)). Now if I try to load the rest of the code, it explodes when loading one of DEFMETHODs with "Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when setting fdefinition of NIL." 23:00:14 any idea what might be wrong? 23:01:15 mathrick: you have code that expands to (cl:defun nil ....) somewhere. 23:01:28 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:01:41 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:19 -!- vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:18 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:22 drewc: but it dies when loading a DEFMETHOD, which I'm not touching 23:03:27 *hefner* is astonished to see ECL detect a type error at compile time 23:03:32 and I pass through the name as-is to cl:defun 23:04:09 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:04:09 vonli` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 23:04:10 -!- vonli [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:31 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:04:33 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 23:04:39 mathrick: Are you certain that the package is correctly defined prior to loading that form? 23:05:12 Zhivago: which form exactly? 23:05:32 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 23:06:40 The defun form. 23:08:22 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA94DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:15 Zhivago: as far as I can tell, yes 23:09:45 qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 23:09:58 I put (defmacro defun ...) in package.lisp, which is loaded first 23:10:31 Before the package is established? 23:10:41 no, after 23:13:05 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.241.37.140] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:19 ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has joined #lisp 23:13:34 Zhivago: I have defpackage (with (:shadow defun)), then (defmacro defun ...) 23:13:45 -!- prip [~foo@host92-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:34 prip [~foo@host92-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:14:36 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:14:44 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.128.29.12] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:21 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 23:16:02 <_3b`> mathrick: is there an IN-PACKAGE or a package qualifier on that DEFUN? 23:16:04 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:16:13 yes 23:16:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-207-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:17:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:19:27 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-189-87.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:19:50 buh? So somehow it started throwing stream decoding errors on latin-1 characters (which it doesn't care for when I comment out the DEFUN redefinition), and after fixing it it seems to load 23:20:00 *mathrick* decides not to think too hard 23:21:53 -!- errkle [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:21 Maybe the default external format is not latin-1. 23:23:03 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:59 rtoym: it's not 23:24:13 but without my hack in place, it merely generates warnings 23:24:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-165-221.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:20 benny [~benny@i577A8EB4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:20 with it, it becomes a compile error 23:24:46 errkle [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 23:24:50 Well, that's weird. Missing quotes or parens? 23:25:25 nope, they're in the comments (the character is §) 23:30:34 Well, if you were missing a quote, the comments would be in the string. But I'm sure you have them all matched. 23:32:09 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:33:33 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:13 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:24 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:42:06 I think I'm starting to get it a bit better now... 23:42:35 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:52 I am just so used to explicitly returning values. I don't know if I will ever gte used to the forms doing that for me 23:43:56 the only way I can learn really is if I put it to practical use, which is why I am working so hard on using the ffi 23:44:08 Will CFFI use 64-bits for :pointer on a 64-bit OS? 23:44:19 orm: explicit return is not good most cases 23:44:35 I am a heavy C++ user 23:44:41 orm: you want to learn lisp by learning how to use lisp to talk with C? seems a bit round-a-bout :) 23:44:42 it's basically required 23:44:57 yes, i guess it is a bit isn't it? 23:45:00 orm: this is Lisp, not C++, and when you Lisp, usually you try to be declarative 23:45:09 drewc: That's how I 'learnt' Lisp ;) 23:45:22 *rtoym* agrees with drewc 23:45:33 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:45:39 balooga: does that prove or disprove my point? :P 23:46:11 everything is C style in the library I am wrapping, so I don't expect too many problems 23:46:26 declarative is a great word, but like a lot of things in CS, nobody can really agree on what it means. 23:46:50 Adamant: well, most cases is quite evident 23:46:56 sometimes it's undefinable 23:46:58 you know :) 23:47:01 yeah 23:47:01 drewc: That's why I quoted learnt. 23:47:39 marioxcc: it just gets annoying when you move from different language communities or groups and it means entirely different things in different places. 23:47:59 I have a whole application framework I built from scratch. I'm not planning to let it go to waste. 23:48:02 Adamant: yeah 23:48:45 I'm gonna learn this language even if it kills me. ;) 23:48:50 orm: you don't have to waste it, just maybe it's worth reformulating some parts in order to make it more CL-ish :) 23:49:00 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:19 example: a (loop with list do (setf list (cons element list)) ...) 23:49:27 with (loop collect ...) 23:50:11 marioxcc: everything is already set. function pointers are replacing callback objects and I can just use defcallback to interact with them 23:50:25 that was mny biggest issue 23:50:35 ok 23:50:50 I relied alot on inheritance the way I had it before 23:51:14 which, portability-wise, i figured out was pretty dumb 23:52:07 orm: Inheritance with C? 23:52:18 no, C++ 23:52:41 internals are all C++, all wrapped up in a nice C interface 23:52:48 -!- aw is now known as aw|rerun 23:53:01 but, in order for it to be extensible, I had to leave some classes exposed 23:53:48 Went to you try CLOS, it can be quite an eye opener regarding how OO can be implemented 23:53:52 with the main game loop set in the .dll or .so, all I need to do really is define a bunch of callback functions and some global variables and that's it 23:54:03 on the lisp side 23:54:21 I want to try out smalltalk to see what it's like there as well. 23:54:34 If there's very little on the lisp side, how much lisp can you really learn? 23:54:41 pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.138.113] has joined #lisp 23:54:43 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.138.113] has quit [Client Quit] 23:54:58 rtoym: enough not to pidgeon-hole myself into one language 23:55:04 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:27 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 23:55:35 and the whole game logic is being set on the lisp side, I'm going to learn alot 23:56:09 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:09 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:41 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:29 -!- djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:24 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp