00:00:26 fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:01:01 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has quit [Quit: netytan] 00:01:16 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:19 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:14 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:05 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:38 I want to extract parts of html, is there an existing lisp package which has this functionality? html-template does it the opposite way, and html-parse converts the whole page into lml2? 00:13:17 Shouldn't Closure (or related packages) have something 00:13:18 ? 00:13:53 Guthur_ [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:03 I'll get straight on it 00:17:14 closure-html 00:17:25 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:35 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:18:23 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.34] has joined #lisp 00:19:25 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:20:14 Cheers, I'm starting to take a look at CLSQL, and I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if my expectations are flawed: join slots are not updated, ever. Could anyone that uses it confirm that this is or isn't expected behaviour? 00:20:55 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 00:21:37 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:26:43 fsmunoz: CLSQL had been losing favour here, I think. fusss worked a lot with it, maybe some others. 00:27:01 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-209-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:20 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-66-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:28:24 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:36 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@206-248-137-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:49 p_l: well, I'm not married to CLSQL, in all honesty I'm a beginner so I'm open to all kinds of suggestions. I was looking for a way to make CLOS instances persistent, while at the same time being able to use relational query to access them. 00:28:55 (thanks for answering btw) 00:29:04 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 00:29:20 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 Why do you want to use relational queries to access CLOS instances? 00:30:03 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:30:42 fsmunoz: well, there's postmodern, rofl, hu.dwim.perec (old name: cl-perec) and various NoSQL stores 00:30:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:16 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:26 Zhivago: I don't want to use relational queries to access CLOS instances per se. I want to use query (relational or not, although most of the most non-SQL stuff I've discovered is mostly about persistence) in order to obtain the data that will compose the instances. I'm not making myself very clear, I know. 00:32:50 Wouldn't that imply that the instances are views upon the relational data? 00:33:48 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 00:35:46 Zhivago: not necesarilly I think... if I have a class "army" (I'm making this up as I go) and want to do something with all the armies which are in coordinates X.Y I can just do a select for that... without that I was under the impression I would have to add the logic in Lisp, which in this case could involve inspecting all the "armies" to check their coordinates. 00:36:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:30 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 00:36:40 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.219] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:37:24 Well, that's fine -- but that doesn't involve clos classes. 00:38:38 If you did have a clos army class, wouldn't that be a view upon the relational data, though? 00:40:32 Zhivago: well, I think it sort of does (not necessarily of course, I can simply not even use CLOS at all) when one uses an ORMish approach like CLSQL/cl-perec/postmodern, etc, in the sense that the clos classes are mapped to table/rows. In the example above would instantiate (likely mapping over them) the results, creating "army" instances with each row, etc. 00:42:57 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:43:00 Well, mapping classs to table/rows is probably a sign that you're doing relational data wrong. 00:43:35 I suggest that you think of instances here as being parameterizable queries. 00:44:11 Of course, since you're thinking of ORM, you're probably doing it wrong anhow :) 00:44:15 hehe 00:44:47 I was expecting that one ;) 00:44:53 You're most likely right 00:45:13 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:30 what's wrong with ORM? 00:45:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:45:59 Well, it's a radically different model to that of relational data models. 00:46:06 The idea is alluring, but it seems that it never really works as expected, since the differences between objects and the relational model always stick out 00:46:12 ORM is a frighteningly badly applied concept at best, and a frighteningly bad concept at worst. 00:46:54 If your instances are essentially parameterizable queries with some transaction protected caching, then I could see somethng civilized happening. 00:47:34 those are quite general arguments 00:47:39 Where (army-location x) actually meant select location from army where row=x 00:47:55 what's an army class? 00:48:05 And you had some implicit transaction logic that kept the view stable from update which allowed you to cache that result, and ... 00:48:13 I'm still reading PCL... 00:48:24 my lisp-fu is weak 00:48:36 chillywilly: Stop at chapter 13! 00:48:46 I began a simple experiment of a game by using nothing more that standard Lisp structures and classes, and merely serialising them and reading them. It was working pretty well, until I found the need to do some querying and had no other idea than to map through all the instances, etc. 00:49:06 didi: why? 00:49:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:52 Zhivago: isn0t your example pretty much what most of the ORMs do? 00:49:52 chillywilly: Nothing. Just an advice. ;) 00:50:08 didi: ok, but why are you giving me this advice? 00:50:18 chillywilly: Because I am reading it too. 00:50:27 An to be funny, I guess. 00:50:34 I'm only on chapter 5 00:50:37 ic 00:50:47 (for factors of "most" limited to 1 or 2, and probablly not even real ORMs. I only took a look at some Lisp ones, and have no previous exposure to any other) 00:51:08 chillywilly: Nice book, uh? 00:51:12 Zhivago: Sequel (a Ruby ORM) is quite close to what I'd consider *good* ORM, though its qeustionable ORM, I guess (it doesn't exactly map to classes) 00:51:16 sure :) 00:51:36 didi: you can't bad mouth it or the author will see it ;) 00:51:41 *chillywilly* pokes gigamonkey 00:51:49 Hehe. I know. 00:52:38 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:53:12 I could actually do without the persistent aspect of all of it (I can live with simple serialisation/reading, or use cl-persistence or something). It's the query part I'm somehow missing, although it could also be due to my lack of Lisp knowledge. 00:53:48 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:42 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:13 fsmunoz: maybe a look at how bknr handles indices can inspire you. 00:55:40 fsm: Well, your search problem implies a need for a search engne. 00:55:50 silenius: I'm reading the documentation actually, good hint. 00:56:11 fsm: In some cases it might be sufficient to register your instances into hash-tables or trees for the things you need to search for them by. 00:56:50 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:34 Zhivago: I was actually beginning to do that! Then I thought "this is surely a low-tech approach, I'll take a look at how more evolved people do it". And I began reading about clsql,elephant,postmodern,etc. 00:58:10 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 00:58:40 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:58:49 fsmunoz: that's basically what bknr does as well. whether it make sense in your case, is a completely different question, though. (upate- vs query-ratio etc) 01:00:11 silenius: indeed. My needs are extremely modest in terms of disk update: I merely need to read it in the beginning, and save it at the end. This was what I was doing before I got a sql db involved. bknr works in memory so this isn't even an issue. 01:00:31 err. maybe "did". it's been a few years since I looked at the code. 01:00:52 fsmunoz: I mean upates to slot-values 01:01:23 silenius: oh, well, those are relatively high. 01:01:53 updates* .. fsck. I should clean my keyboard 01:02:35 hehe 01:02:56 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:03:49 fsm: If you use an external database be aware that you've essentially switched to a distributed design model, and things like the nature of time become mportant. 01:05:40 Zhivago: quite. I haven't even began to tackle those issues 01:10:12 tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.14] has joined #lisp 01:11:12 Sequel's approach might be doable with MOP (well, without it as well, but it would be awkard) 01:11:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:12:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:12:47 Well, the most critical point is getting the OOP side to handle time properly. 01:14:01 Which more or less implies that you need to lock the whole database while doing any processing. 01:15:39 or make explicit transactions 01:16:30 the last project where I used Active Record actually used transactions for part of the validation process, because I could easily rollback them... :D 01:16:59 asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.42] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:38 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:20:55 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.15] has joined #lisp 01:21:14 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:13 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:22:29 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:51 maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:29:33 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 271 seconds] 01:33:41 Zhivago: also, where have you seen an ORM that would lock the database for processing? 01:33:43 Transactions aren't bad, but they introduce all of the issues of multi-threading. 01:34:16 p_l: I'm not talking about what ORMs do -- I'm talking about what they need to do in order to preserve the illusion of being objects. 01:34:47 p_l: ORMs fail to preserve that illusion in various ways for various reasons, most of them boiling down to "ORM is a fundamentally bad idea". 01:36:26 Neat! I managed to get two different symbols with the same name into the internal-symbols hashtable of a package. 01:36:33 I'm fairly sure that's not supposed to be allowed. 01:40:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:39 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:37 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-209.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:44:21 -!- wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d818abf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:44:43 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:12 -!- pnq [~asdf@cpe-174-101-95-132.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:48:31 Zhivago: well, I'm used to objects needing to explicitly call .save or something like that... 01:49:22 Okay, time for me to disappear for the evening. 01:49:24 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:53:35 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:54:23 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 01:56:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:57:08 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:47 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:01:04 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:06 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:20 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:04:02 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA90C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:30 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:45 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:12:36 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:15:29 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:52 googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:23 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:56 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016207.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:26:45 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 02:28:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:58 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:48 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30:39 p_l: So, what happens if someone else modifies the saved data in the meanwhile? That's equivalent to locking the database if you prevent that. 02:30:42 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:31 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:38 Well, I prefer to use row locks for that, also *any* case with shared data will have those issues 02:38:50 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:41:10 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:51 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:48 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:18 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:40 row-lock don't work for objects because generally you can't predict what rows an operation will affect due to encapsulation. 02:45:40 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:02 And yes, these problems exist for any distributed systems. 02:46:41 Mostly the answer is "not to use distributed objects in any transparent fashion." 02:46:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:31 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:49:59 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 02:50:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:53:53 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:26 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 *p_l* personally considers trying to act like ORM objects are "normal" objects is a fallacy 02:59:18 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:25 Yeah, well, that would probably be something to do with ORM not delivering. 03:01:29 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 03:01:46 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:23 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:11 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:35 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:11:41 googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:59 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:44 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 Zhivago: delivering what ? 03:16:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ykorhpocjgvwvjer] has joined #lisp 03:16:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ykorhpocjgvwvjer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:44 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ostmmedlkmrqlklw] has joined #lisp 03:18:58 fe[nl]ix: on the promise of seamless integration? 03:21:14 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:32 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:25:33 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 03:28:04 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 03:29:00 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:32:17 maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 03:33:43 googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ostmmedlkmrqlklw] has left #lisp 03:35:38 emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:36:27 Is there an existing INTERCAL implementation of lisp? (Don't ask why; but feel free to speculate.) 03:36:55 lisp implemented in intercal? 03:37:10 yes. 03:38:17 ... 03:38:25 lisp implemented in intercal... oh god 03:38:38 i won't ask why, i'll ask "are you mad?" 03:38:53 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:20 no madder than implementing lisp in, say, C... or Java... or... 03:40:09 if you have nothing better to do 03:40:19 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:41:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-druqcflvbjjdexuo] has joined #lisp 03:42:54 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:36 -!- stray_hound__ is now known as straay 03:46:15 emacs-dwim: except you mentioned INTERCAL 03:46:43 googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:05 vng [~user@123.20.81.168] has joined #lisp 03:47:34 Good morning! 03:48:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:57 p_l: INTERCAL equivalence. 03:49:07 morning, vng 03:49:59 hello fe[nl]ix 03:52:28 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:16 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:57:20 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-94-57.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:58:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:00:43 googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:38 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:59 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016207.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:05:30 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:34 hrm, is intercal the language with the 'please' keyword? 04:10:45 yes 04:11:08 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:26 hehe, I thought that was about the only thing I remembered about the language 04:12:04 it also has rabbit ears and roman numerals 04:12:15 maden_ [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:12:16 pnq [~gaiug@AC81C519.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:01 don't forget COMEFROM instead of GOTO 04:14:54 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:15:17 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 04:16:46 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:55 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 04:18:10 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 04:19:41 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:02 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:23:56 ccl compiler internals looked simpler at first sight, but that was deceptive 04:25:28 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:03 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 04:28:19 sbcl's assembly generating routines look more declarative 04:28:32 ahahhaha, the ick compiler just skips anything it does not understand 04:31:46 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:50 toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 04:32:41 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 04:32:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:40:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:11 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:44:21 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:49:26 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-75-42-235-187.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:54 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:08 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:51:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:14 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:09 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:56:02 benny [~benny@i577A788A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:59:21 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:50 enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.91.123] has joined #lisp 05:03:21 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:04:21 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.243.2] has joined #lisp 05:07:36 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:45 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.240.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:28 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:09:12 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09:40 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:43 -!- vng [~user@123.20.81.168] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:23:17 Good morning! 05:24:10 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 05:24:44 Hello beach. 05:27:17 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:27:34 I sometimes wish I could have anonymous structures in CL. 05:27:46 I guess destructuring-bind on a list of values is good enough for me. 05:29:08 also be reminded of getf 05:29:13 psilord2: how is that different from a hash-table? 05:30:28 I think he means locally define a structure 05:31:03 Well, I want a small aggregate of information but with slots I can reference by name. It looks like a defstruct, but I don't want to write that. A list, array, or vector all have similar access requirements and I have to supply an index. 05:31:27 there's always lambda. 05:31:28 Anonymous in what sense? 05:31:38 I'll give an example: 05:31:50 psilord2: plist and getf & destructuring-bind 05:31:53 Here is a field of a structure I'm making: 05:31:53 (slave-assignment (make-hash-table :test #'equal)) 05:32:14 Now, here is how the hash table is keyed: 05:32:14 Keyed by slave id, Value is list ( ) 05:32:23 So each value is a three item list. 05:32:43 Do you know that you can tell defstruct to structure a list or a vector? 05:32:44 It is clunky to access and set it, and destructuring-bind doesn't allow me to setf the variables. 05:32:59 Zhivago, what do you mean? 05:33:46 Ah, the :type thing. 05:33:53 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.154.108] has left #lisp 05:33:54 Yes. 05:34:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:34:15 HG` [~HG@85.8.89.174] has joined #lisp 05:34:54 Does this mean I still have to make-? Or if use :type list, then I can access a raw list as a structure? 05:35:07 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:35:48 make-structure in that case will produce a list or a vector, so 05:36:05 the accessors that it defines are defined upon lists or vectors. 05:36:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-201-253.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:03 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-48-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:37:17 Ah, but if I simply have a list with the correct stuff in it, instead of something created by make- and apply the field accessors to it, I will get a type error. Which isn't what I'm looking for. 05:37:39 No, you won't, since the accessor has no way to discriminate it. 05:39:54 Ok, I've tested what you've said, and it works. 05:40:43 psilord2: lisp has it all... 05:41:07 emacs-dwim: I must say that I am continuously pleased by the amount of usefulness packed into lisp. 05:41:15 I say it is a dangerous amount. :) 05:42:59 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-19.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:28 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@a81-84-225-60.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:47 tcr: I just sent you email about the slime::%cursor-marker%/clojure issue 05:43:55 and evening folks 05:44:14 Zhivago, emacs-dwim, thanks, I appreciate the comments 05:44:21 Welcome. 05:44:40 I do have one more, actually interesting, problem. 05:44:41 :) 05:44:56 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 05:45:01 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-187-210.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:01 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-187-210.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:45:01 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 05:45:11 *slyrus* wonders if climacs is up to the task of editing/running clojure code :) 05:45:13 slyrus: in swank-rpc.lisp there's a function called simple-read; the clojure swank implementation just has to replicate that one 05:45:16 So, I'm writing a master/slave system which can handle millions of in memory tasks and 10K-50K simultaneously connected slaves which can come and go. 05:45:45 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-173-174-149.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:48 I actually have this working. :) However, I'm rewriting the task management portion of it cause I need some features I didn't have in the initial implementation. 05:46:09 One feature, that I will be writing shortly, is the concept of checkpointing the slaves and computation. 05:46:14 This is the part I'd like to talk about. :) 05:46:37 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:38 So, I have a "master function" macro which the application user of this system uses to construct their master codes. 05:48:44 It looks like this: 05:48:45 (define-mw-master (argv) ) 05:49:23 What I'd like to do is create a set of checkpointable bindings. Like this: 05:49:23 (with-checkpointable-bindings (argv policy) 05:49:23 ((a 0) 05:49:28 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:38 (b 0)) 05:49:38 ) 05:50:54 So, the function of this macro is that a and b will be special variables that, along with the argv, and policy which dictate where and how often to store the variables, mw-prodcom-loop will grovel around in the bindings and serialize the bindings to disk. 05:51:30 If the master process dies, and restarts, then argv will contain a :restart-from and will suck the bindings back off the disk into memory, rebind the variables, and start the body. 05:52:18 The consequence of this is that mw-prodcom-loop is the only place where the bindings could be serialized, and it is up to the user to ensure the values are consistent in order to restart the loop after a restart. 05:52:23 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 05:52:25 Does this sound reasonable? 05:53:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:53:33 Of course, all the tasks and intermediate results and what not are also serialized. The trick is providing a consistent view of the checkpointable bindings for the user when the loop restarts. 05:54:30 And since the master codes may be arbitrarily complex, and so spread across lots of functions, this is why the bindings are special. 05:55:23 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-druqcflvbjjdexuo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:55:30 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 Generally there will be a loop as the body of with-checkpointable-bindings in which mw-prodcom-loop is repeatedly called. Restarting that inner loop with the right bindings is my goal. 05:58:33 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 06:03:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:12 mahmul [~mrw@24.171.133.215] has joined #lisp 06:05:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ibqokgnaqlrkgfrq] has joined #lisp 06:05:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ibqokgnaqlrkgfrq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pigtcefdwuingtpb] has joined #lisp 06:08:26 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 06:11:25 Bed time for me, I'm out! 06:15:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:15:40 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:07 -!- googol [~matthew@pool-74-100-245-133.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:21:44 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25:14 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:31:11 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 06:32:37 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:35:37 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:34 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:36 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 06:39:13 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:42:21 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 06:42:26 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has joined #lisp 06:44:28 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.201] has joined #lisp 06:45:41 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:37 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:47:43 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:48:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:49:37 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:51:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:51 -!- mahmul [~mrw@24.171.133.215] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 06:54:44 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:55:35 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:54 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 07:03:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:16 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:16:07 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:41 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 07:19:14 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 07:20:07 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:22:34 Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 07:23:17 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 07:23:17 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 07:23:23 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:26:56 vng [~user@123.20.71.157] has joined #lisp 07:27:15 nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-153-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:36 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 07:31:55 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 07:33:38 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:43 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 07:34:42 -!- Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:35:02 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 07:35:06 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-98.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:35:57 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:36:08 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-153-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:36:29 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 07:36:32 (sb-ext:run-program "ls" '("-l") :wait nil :output *standard-output*) 07:36:44 does not actually emit any output in case :wait nil is given rather than :wait t 07:36:50 Am I missing something? 07:37:44 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:55 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-130.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:59 maus [~maus@222.253.105.116] has joined #lisp 07:43:13 hello maus 07:43:21 hello vng 07:43:35 Good afternoon! 07:44:44 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 u22 [~jacob@cpe-24-210-212-76.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:08 Alright, so in common lisp, if im making a list with a collecting clause in a loop macro, is there a way to refer to the list created so far? (ultimate goal is to create fibonacci sequences) 07:46:18 tcr: only in slime 07:46:27 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:46:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:46:34 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d48.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:43 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:46:50 collect into list 07:49:19 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.105.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:42 maus [~maus@222.253.105.116] has joined #lisp 07:49:50 but you don't need this to make fibonacci numbers 07:50:35 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:03 whats a better approach? 07:52:03 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:52:15 -!- freiksenet1 [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:26 is this your homework? 07:54:22 nope. project euler, 2nd problem, im trying to make a cool one liner haha 07:54:39 but nvm, i got it from here 07:54:41 (loop repeat 10 for number = 1 then (+ number previous) and previous = 0 then number collect previous) 07:55:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:50 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 07:56:48 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:36 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-zwbodpgbmlvojave] has joined #lisp 08:01:16 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:02:56 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:44 iwao [~iwao@p3216-ipad08yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:08:24 -!- u22 [~jacob@cpe-24-210-212-76.woh.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 08:09:31 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:14:01 KautKas 08:14:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:06 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:17:38 soz 08:17:40 wc 08:18:57 mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:18:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:19:43 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:20:14 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:24:18 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 08:25:34 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:25:55 waterless_cloud [~waterless@209-255-111-130.ip.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:08 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:30:15 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:31:13 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-12-60.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [] 08:31:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:32:27 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:34:38 jdz: ? 08:35:15 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 08:38:06 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 hello spiaggia 08:39:32 spiaggia: thanks a lot for posting the offer! 08:40:43 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:59 Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.128] has joined #lisp 08:41:36 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:42:39 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.91.123] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:42:50 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:03 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:47:13 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 08:48:14 stassats: no, not just in slime 08:48:45 tcr: i get output when running sbcl directly 08:50:07 or even from within *inferior-lisp* 08:50:48 oh right I forgot :search t 08:51:03 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:05 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:51:22 -!- pnq [~gaiug@AC81C519.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:51:33 so I don't get it in *inferior-lisp* whose reason may be that I'm running with globally redirected io 08:52:13 interesting: (sb-ext:run-program "ls" '("-l") :wait nil :output *standard-output* :search t) then (sb-ext:run-program "ls" '("-l") :wait t :output *standard-output*) (not no :search t and :wait t) and i get output of the first command 08:52:27 so it doesn't flush it somewhere 08:54:05 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:12 and just doing wait-process wait flushes too 08:55:51 or, just doing (sb-sys:serve-all-events 1) 08:57:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d48.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:45 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:07 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 I am running steel bank 1.0.34 and slime, I get a type error when trying to load cxml. 09:05:19 update sbcl, update cxml? 09:05:26 cause i've no type errors 09:05:46 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06:14 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:34 I just update cxml from git and sbcl 1.0.34 is pretty recent I think 09:07:19 nobody wants to deal with already fixed bugs 09:07:31 if it's a bug 09:10:26 It could be me because I program occasionally and am untrained, Its been a while since I last did anything. 09:11:22 but the expression that is giving the error looks fine to me 09:11:51 it has to return a pathname 09:12:20 but a type error is reported on the expression instead 09:12:36 like it is not getting evaluated 09:12:48 is the error in your code or in cxml? 09:13:13 spiaggia: yes? 09:13:19 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'cxml) 09:13:28 oh, nvm 09:13:44 soz = sorry, wc = wrong chat 09:13:56 cisticola: well, so update sbcl first and then come back if you still have any errors 09:14:02 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:14:56 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:14:57 I will give it a run out in cmucl as well, I just built that sbcl 1.0.34 today :( 09:15:06 thanks 09:15:22 well, building takes only ten minutes 09:15:49 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-103-120.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:38 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju 09:18:35 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016207.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:18:52 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-19.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:17 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-173-173-22.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:37 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-103-120.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21:57 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:22:37 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:25:00 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 09:25:51 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:28:45 -!- vng [~user@123.20.71.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:48 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:58 mvilleneuve: Sure, no problem. 09:30:30 vng [~user@123.20.87.49] has joined #lisp 09:31:39 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:33:01 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:35:02 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-170.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 09:35:29 -!- 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timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:24 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:55 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:19 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:47 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:19 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:15 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-arjjltwmwrvvyebc] has joined #lisp 11:03:10 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:06:44 Kenjin [Kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has joined #lisp 11:07:08 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest28520 11:07:17 -!- Guest28520 is now known as kenjin2201 11:07:39 -!- kenjin2201 is now known as kenjin2202 11:07:45 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2002AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:34 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:05 I want use asdf-install in Windows with SBCL. Is it possible? 11:10:56 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-94-57.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:11:25 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-94-57.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:17:17 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:17:45 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:01 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:21:19 kenjin2202: isn't it? 11:21:47 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pigtcefdwuingtpb] has left #lisp 11:22:45 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.137] has joined #lisp 11:22:54 I'm having trouble with it 11:23:46 I searched some of the ways in Google only to fail. 11:25:07 jeti [~jeti@81.7.162.10] has joined #lisp 11:27:39 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:33:33 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [] 11:33:39 (not that i can help, but...) what happens when you try to use it? 11:34:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:39:38 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:47:06 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:10 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:47:30 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:47:52 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:52:17 pmd: it says "couldn't fork child process: No such file or directory" 11:53:11 fork? is that because of gnuwin32's tar -z switch? 11:53:16 nixie [~nixie@121.227.252.65] has joined #lisp 11:54:08 No idea. 11:54:09 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 can't you debug it? 11:55:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:55:54 When I unpack it and load asd file, I can use it 11:55:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:29 But when I write a package using those, it doesn't work the way it works in Linux 11:58:02 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:47 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:55 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:02:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:01 segv_ [~mb@p54BE79A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:08 -!- segv [~mb@p54BE79A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:09 -!- segv_ is now known as segv 12:07:25 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:07:28 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:14 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:08:41 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.252.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:17 -!- jeti [~jeti@81.7.162.10] has quit [Quit: bye] 12:12:12 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 12:13:31 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 12:16:31 nixie [~nixie@121.227.252.65] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:21 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:08 G'morning all. 12:21:23 howdy nyef 12:23:03 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:23:22 I'm not supposed to see two different symbols with the same name under DO-SYMBOLS of a package, am I? 12:27:45 i think not 12:28:14 unless you change the package during do-symbols, which you shouldn't 12:28:24 like using unintern 12:28:25 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:30:45 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-66-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:32:26 Ah, lisppaste is still silenced, isn't it? 12:32:32 minion: paste 100265? 12:32:33 Paste number 100265: "Package system bug in SBCL?" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/100265 12:33:02 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jowfesgfjkkroknd] has quit [Changing host] 12:33:02 hdurer_ [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 12:33:09 ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.45.198] has joined #lisp 12:33:27 Fortunately, this can be packaged up as a test case fairly easily. 12:33:30 *Xach* finds himself wishing (symbol-name ::foo) => ":FOO" 12:36:09 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 12:38:01 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:30 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:25 nyef: seems like sbcl is not removing the cl:nil from package bar after putting foo:nil in package bar too 12:39:56 that is, by the time it gets the conflict, it has already "used" cl:nil in package bar 12:40:00 *Xach* gets to make his own synonym stream for the first time 12:40:13 pmd: A good guess, but wrong. It's putting CL:NIL into BAR -after- the conflict-resolution step. 12:40:28 nyef: really? damn 12:40:41 Yeah, that's how I found it, actually. 12:41:02 There are two test cases in the entire test suite that are set :fails-on :sbcl, and they're both tests of symbol-conflict machinery. 12:41:06 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:21 (They're also the only two test cases that fail on x86/linux and x86-64/linux.) 12:41:43 I was looking at the logic last night and something was bothering me about it. 12:42:02 But I only got as far as seeing the results in the internal state. 12:42:20 It took until this morning to come up with a simple user-level test case. 12:44:33 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:34 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:46:50 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:55 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 12:49:19 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 12:51:12 nyef: import login does look weird 12:52:13 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:21 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 12:52:27 nyef: from skimming the code (not running it) it looks like it first pushes cl:nil to the symbols-to-be-added list, then when it reaches foo:nil signals a name conflict.. but doesn't remove cl:nil, so it gets added later 12:52:38 Yeah, exactly. 12:52:56 I actually know what I'm going to do about it, too. 12:53:28 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:52 Does mean that the entire symbol-conflict system needs auditing. 12:55:39 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:56:27 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:57:00 -!- j4K0b 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has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:49:12 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:16 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:49 so I'm wondering why sb-ext:process-kill does not signal an error if the kill was not successful but rather returns NIL 14:50:20 I'd see process-kill as a convenience high-level function to do that sort of thing :-) 14:50:27 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-184-233-215.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:41 *nyef* has no idea. 14:50:51 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:52:09 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:52:19 Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:53:48 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.36.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:33 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:26 phetips [~phetips@89.146.16.136] has joined #lisp 14:56:48 Hi, I realise this is a matter of opinion; but still i'm interested 14:57:03 emacs, sbcl, linux, amd64. 14:57:13 what is, according to you, the dialect of LISP i should learn if i wanted to get into functional programming 14:57:25 *Xach* swing and a miss 14:57:42 see topic 14:58:04 Is there a way to see all child processes in sbcl? 14:58:26 common, i see 14:58:28 phetips: Common Lisp is the greatest and best dialect of Lisp, but it doesn't force you to write programs in a functional way, and it doesn't culturally value functional style as much as other dialects. 14:58:40 tcr Have a look for *ACTIVE-PROCESSES*. 14:58:51 Xach: this might be a good thing for me, as i've never done functional programming before 14:59:27 phetips: some people recently discussed the topic here: http://xach.livejournal.com/253633.html 14:59:32 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 14:59:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:40 tcr, (sb-thread:list-all-threads) 15:00:01 gravicappa: that's the answer to a somewhat different question. 15:00:02 gravicappa: Processes, not threads, despite the LispM-derived name confusion. 15:00:03 gravicappa: No cookie for you :-) 15:00:03 Xach: cool, thanks 15:00:05 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.201] has quit [Quit: off] 15:00:13 Ow. 15:00:19 (X 15:01:05 I fucking love google for this *_* 15:01:19 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 15:02:36 lol 15:02:39 http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-common-lisp-114.html 15:02:53 stuff like this is what kept me from already learning lisp i think ;) 15:03:01 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:44 Seems pretty obvious 15:05:05 aw [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:35 anyone familiar with Arc? 15:07:07 ejs [~eugen@85-238-113-136.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:08:10 I'm sure they are on #arc 15:08:45 ;p 15:08:50 good suggestion 15:09:01 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 15:09:05 5 people though 15:09:22 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:08 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:10:39 the entire arc userbase! 15:11:00 maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 15:11:04 phetips: Arc gets little love from people who already know Lisp. 15:11:15 (... "the tenth eiffel user conference" all over again?) 15:12:12 Xach: i see, my only interest in it is because of paul graham 15:12:16 I quite like his book and essays 15:12:21 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:27 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-rhzzktesktrvtimr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:31 symbole [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 15:12:34 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-yomkhyztzefycssl] has joined #lisp 15:12:34 i don't, it's too macro-oriented 15:12:41 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:52 and arc, for instance, is mostly syntatic sugar than anything else 15:12:54 phetips: That's how I got started, too. But the more I learned, the less I liked 'em. 15:13:01 phetips: If you liked those, have you read "Taste for the Web" or "Dabblers and Blowhards"? 15:13:06 phetips: Then you might find more enjoyment from scheme and/or arc than common lisp. 15:13:10 phetips: I particularly like Common Lisp, and Paul Graham doesn't like it. 15:13:33 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:14:26 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:14:30 Hmm, I'm trying to checkout a clnet cvs module via anoncvs. Isn't there a cvs root syntax that lets you include the password in it? 15:14:35 *Xach* can't remember it 15:14:36 i see 15:14:42 nyef: nope i haven't 15:15:22 schmx: would you categorise scheme and arc in the same group/ 15:15:23 ? 15:15:34 opposing to common lisp? 15:15:39 phetips: no. 15:16:17 phetips: This whole thing with groups.. I could put them in the same group and CL in some other group. I can make up groups anyway I like and put whatever in 'em.. so sure. and no. 15:16:30 haha fair enough 15:16:58 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:05 They're all clearly in different groups. Scheme starts with an S, Arc starts with an A... 15:17:16 solid approach 15:17:32 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:17:41 They're all clearly in the same group. Scheme uses parens, Arc uses parens... 15:17:54 Hello Krystof. 15:18:38 The unifying factor of all languages seems to be English keywords 15:19:05 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:12 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.168.81] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:47 dlowe: makes me wonder if any languages exists that use another language for keywords 15:20:51 *uses 15:21:19 Common lisp, with the &AUX lambda-list keyword? 15:21:25 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:21:44 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:55 hm? auxiliary is English 15:22:03 brainfuck 15:22:25 Lambda is Greek. :) 15:22:27 http://xkcd.com/224/ 15:22:59 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-112-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:00 brainfuck is amazing ;p 15:23:49 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:24:22 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:58 dlowe: i wouldn't mind that AltGr+L would insert , and that  would be the same as `lambda' in CL 15:25:15 but  is not part of the standard characters 15:25:17 pmd: that's the case in sbcl with unicode enabled 15:25:22 really? 15:25:23 :D 15:25:23 er 15:25:25 what? 15:25:29 fe[nl]ix: I think stassats wrote an iolib api to inotify; can that become part of iolib at some point? 15:25:35 (I thought?) 15:25:36 pmd: AltGr-L is too overloaded 15:26:02 tcr: I can't see why not 15:26:22 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:24 Is there another way to wait for the creation of a file, a better wait than loop+sleep+probe-file? 15:26:28 phetips: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjölnir_(programming_language) 15:26:28 p_l: well, whatever that would not be confused as an emacs command or chord 15:26:32 s/wait/way/ 15:26:41 Krystof: Should I check in the package-system stuff I'm hacking on, or is it too close to code-freeze time? 15:27:04 -!- bfein is now known as Morik 15:27:07 I'm significantly under the weather, so freeze will be delayed 15:27:09 go right ahead 15:27:16 -!- Morik [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 15:27:22 Fair enough. I hope you feel better soon. 15:27:34 andreer: you win :) 15:28:10 ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.47.199] has joined #lisp 15:28:32 asarch [~asarch@187.171.13.15] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 15:29:09 phetips: not really. i spend way too much time looking at stuff like that :p 15:29:17 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:44 andreer: hehe 15:30:33 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:41 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:43 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:33:19 phetips: i think i'd go with http://racket-lang.org/ 15:33:25 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:51 phetips: or rather http://racket-lang.org/new-name.html 15:35:29 *Xach* rtfms, finds the syntax is ':pserver:anonymous:anonymous@...' 15:37:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:18 Xach: it gets even worse when you add HTTP proxy in between 15:38:14 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:51 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.47.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:40:23 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-123-143.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:40:24 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:00 Is there an straightforward way to parse argv included in sbcl itself? 15:41:11 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:41:25 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA91FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 15:41:30 I know there's an getopt like library, but is there an obvious way to do it by means provided in sbcl itself? 15:42:22 Maybe converting all "--foo" to :foo in the argv list, and then use destructuring-bind 15:43:46 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-118.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:44:18 tcr: given that sb-impl::toplevel-init just uses LOOP across *posix-argv*, i'm sceptical that anything better exists in SBCL itself :) 15:44:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:55 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-118.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 it also munges argv in the runtime 15:48:25 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:48:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:48:28 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:49:49 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:43 has any body got contact details for hypno? I desparately need to get into contact with him... 15:52:50 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:14 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.89.174] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:53:32 laynor [~892b3c79@gateway/web/freenode/x-fsteoexfdmnhxank] has joined #lisp 15:54:24 ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.84.237.7] has joined #lisp 15:54:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:17 hi, what's the recommended way to alias a function? I used (setf (symbol-function) 'myalias 'myfun) but sbcl complains about myalias being undefined when i use it later (it works correctly though) 15:56:19 inlined wrapper function? 15:56:23 marioxcc [~user@200.56.157.208] has joined #lisp 15:56:35 maybe with some magic to retrieve the original arglist. 15:56:52 (setf (fdefinition 'myalias) #'myfun) 15:58:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:58:44 fe[nl]ix: That will not make the function known to the compiler at compile-time; laynor is seeing undefined-function style-warning because he tries to use that alias in the same file as the setf form, I suppose. 15:59:03 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.84.237.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:31 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:44 tcr: eval-when to the rescue 15:59:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:10 -!- phetips [~phetips@89.146.16.136] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:00:20 tcr: right guess :) 16:00:23 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:00:40 fe[nl]ix: myfun won't be there at that time :-) 16:01:16 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:02:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:02:28 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:02:46 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2002AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:17 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-123-143.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:33 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-123-143.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:04:56 also, I defined some setf methods, and in later uses (in the same file) I get style warnings about my setf methods being undefined . 16:06:02 lol @ google.com <--- Google Pacman! :D 16:06:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:07:11 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:31 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:07:39 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:08:23 p_l: no keyboard control? :/ 16:08:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:09:56 blandest [~user@79.112.105.1] has joined #lisp 16:10:50 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:22 laynor: click on it 16:11:46 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:47 <_3b> takes a while to load though 16:13:29 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-arjjltwmwrvvyebc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:31 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:10 ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.36.92] has joined #lisp 16:15:15 adeht: yeah, i could play with the mouse, they should have put keyboard control though :) 16:15:41 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6] 16:16:09 fwiw, i can play with a keyboard 16:16:10 devon [~devon@pool-71-255-169-210.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:31 laynor: I could play with the keyboard 16:16:48 mhm, probably it's my firefox extensions and/or xkeymacs 16:16:51 -!- devon [~devon@pool-71-255-169-210.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.128.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:59 errkle``` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 -!- errkle`` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:34 yeah, It was vimperator not passing through and capturing my keys 16:18:59 Devon [~devon@pool-71-255-169-210.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:12 -!- Devon [~devon@pool-71-255-169-210.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:39 Devon [~devon@pool-71-255-169-210.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:00 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:23:35 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 lejoon [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:53 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:26:38 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:28:50 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-118.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:54 Does anyone or anything actually use SB-EXT:NAME-CONFLICT-DATUM? 16:29:21 remove it and wait for complaints 16:29:45 Wasn't planning to -remove- it, was planning to change what it returns under certain circumstances. 16:29:48 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:31:00 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:31:54 uh oh, Unhandled memory fault at #x7FFFF33A8EB0. 16:32:04 adeht: Fun. x86-64/what? 16:32:33 Or is this the google pacman thing again? 16:32:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:16 SBCL 1.0.38.4, Linux sneeze 2.6.33-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu May 13 11:32:37 CEST 2010 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux.. reproducible 16:33:20 *stassats* once had memory fault at #x666666 16:33:32 Anyway, http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/commitdiff/506909834da69677623baa066174c577650ba600 is what I had in mind for changing SB-EXT:NAME-CONFLICT-DATUM. 16:34:53 I get it for (cl-fad:walk-directory "/home/death/dev/" (lambda (pathname))) .. interesting. 16:35:20 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:36:17 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-187.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 adeht: So your next challenge is to produce a simple test-case that doesn't involve any external libraries. 16:42:22 -!- waterless_cloud [~waterless@209-255-111-130.ip.mcleodusa.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:30 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:43:50 working on it.. 16:44:17 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:44:56 any clues on this CMUCL crash? 16:44:56 $ ~/cmucl/bin/lisp -nositeinit -noinit -eval '(progn (print (list (software-version) (machine-version))) (quit))' -dynamic-space-size 1151 16:44:57 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 16:44:57 $ ~/cmucl/bin/lisp -nositeinit -noinit -eval '(progn (print (list (software-version) (machine-version))) (quit))' -dynamic-space-size 1150 16:44:57 ("10.3.0" "X86") 16:44:57 $ vm_stat 16:44:57 ...Pages free: 508126... i.e. roughly 2e9 16:45:05 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:47:46 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:47:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:48:16 No clue. Anything I can come up with for mechanism (not having used cmucl in something like six or seven years) is easily shot down. 16:48:56 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:05 Unless... Maybe it's blowing past an important limit somewhere? 16:50:17 nyef: it feels like stack limit is exceeded (walk-directory has a local function walk that gets called recursively..) 16:50:31 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:51:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:09 nyef: did you end up getting a satisfactory report of testing your patch last night? 16:53:15 well, have there been changes to CMUCL in that timeframe? ;-P 16:53:48 Devon: proc/$(pidof lisp)/maps on the successful case is the first step to find out more 16:54:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:55:03 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:04 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 heh, ok.. it reached 32344 nested walk calls 16:56:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:53 before crashing.. 16:57:58 hefner: Yes, I did, hence the committage. 16:58:06 Does anyone know of an XML syntax, grokked by lisp, for specifying wire (e.g., socket) formats for data? 16:58:09 That's CMUCL 20a of Sep 2009 under MacOS 10.6.3 16:59:07 iphone sdk: lrwxr-xr-x 1 root root 20 2009-10-10 19:36 v6 -> ../arm-apple-darwin9/ .. nice 16:59:23 (the dirname is arm-apple-darwin9, obviously) 17:00:43 walk-directory should really take cycles into account :( 17:01:11 or at least have an option to do that 17:01:37 -!- ejs [~eugen@85-238-113-136.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:01:44 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:02:16 hello 17:03:31 -!- laynor [~892b3c79@gateway/web/freenode/x-fsteoexfdmnhxank] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:07:06 -!- blast_hardcheese [~blast_har@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:54 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 rpg: Surely if you follow XML syntax you specify what ever you want 17:09:35 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:09:35 No schema's though in the one I tried, only DTD 17:09:44 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:59 Dawgmatix [~dman@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:02 Guthur: what I'm looking for is an XML syntax not so that I can use XML as the wire protocol, but to specify a wire protocol. 17:10:36 marioxcc` [~user@200.56.157.208] has joined #lisp 17:10:43 E.g., we specify somehow that there will be four bytes that should be interpreted as an unsigned integer and that is the ip address field. 17:10:58 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.56.157.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:08 Then the Java folks and the CL folks can read this and autogenerate code for reading stuff off/writing stuff onto a socket 17:11:26 Don't want to use xml on the wire because of bloat and parsing issues. 17:11:33 Ya, sounds reasonable 17:11:41 marioxcc` [~user@200.56.157.208] has joined #lisp 17:12:06 Figured /someone/ must have done this, but can't find it --- there's lots of protocol specs, but I just want payload specs. 17:12:15 http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jai-imageio-1_0_01-fcs-docs/com/sun/media/imageio/stream/RawImageInputStream.html#RawImageInputStream%28javax.imageio.stream.ImageInputStream,%20org.xml.sax.InputSource%29 17:12:20 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.56.157.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:29 that looks like something you are looking for? 17:12:37 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.157.208] has left #lisp 17:12:44 Thats obviously for images, but gives a good example I think 17:13:20 What's a good way to put sbcl to sleep to a specific absolute time? 17:13:24 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-68-8.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:33 rpg: Would something like Google's protocol buffers or Thrift work? 17:13:55 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-185.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 17:14:18 tcr: what do you mean by absolute time? 17:14:33 tcr: like, sleep until 17:00? 17:15:00 yup 17:15:03 brown: I'm looking for something even more packed than protocol buffers, thanks. I will look at thrift. 17:15:09 HG` [~HG@85.8.72.224] has joined #lisp 17:16:05 tcr: when i've had to do that in the past, i've pretty much just subtracted the current time from the future time and slept for that duration 17:16:14 tcr: fragile, i suppose, in the face of clock changes 17:16:24 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 rpg: Protocol buffers are pretty well packed. What about them is not packed enough. 17:16:46 also fragile in case of SIGSTOP 17:17:06 but yeah should actually suffice for my purpose 17:17:07 *hefner* loops, sleeping 17:17:24 brown: Maybe I'm misremembering --- I thought protocol buffers were JSON-like. I will reread... 17:18:11 brown: you are right; I was misremembering. 17:18:44 rpg: they're a friendly version of ASN1 17:18:46 sort of 17:18:54 rpg: I think that was one of the primary reasons to reinvent the wheel in the case of protobufs 17:19:29 fe[nl]ix: i was a bit sad when i saw one of the designers of protocol buffers respond to a comment about asn.1 with "gee, i've never really looked at that." 17:19:48 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:49 fe[nl]ix, brown, adeht: thanks; I had this confused with their js stuff. 17:19:53 Xach: ouch. 17:19:59 heh, it doesn't distinguish abstraction syntax from concrete syntax iirc 17:20:08 anyone know if the cl protobuf stuff really works? 17:20:35 rpg: looks like there is an XML standard called XER 17:21:08 *abstract syntax 17:21:17 oh, never mind. that's for over-the-wire syntax 17:22:43 adeht: "it" == asn.1 or "it" == protocol buffers 17:22:53 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 17:24:36 common-lisp-protobuf has a scary feel to it: "This is currently still a work in progress, but I hope that some day ..." 17:25:23 rpg: a new lisper's first project, iirc. 17:25:28 is that the one from gatech? 17:25:50 Xach: hard to tell; it's on google code... No browse-access to the source. 17:26:22 rpg: protobufs. well, that was an incorrect statement. it does have an abstract syntax notation, but only one concrete syntax.. ASN.1 had that syntax agreement stuff 17:26:58 rpg: sure there is. click on "source" and click "Browse" in the top bar. 17:27:23 rpg: but that's not the one i was thinking of. there's another one: http://common-lisp.net/project/protobuf/ 17:27:23 Xach: D'oh. You're right. 17:27:29 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:28:06 TeMPOraL [~user@blaster.blast.pl] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 that also isn't the one i was thinking of, though. 17:28:21 Xach: it's just a sketch.... 17:28:26 *Xach* is a little surprised there are at least 3 protocol buffers implementations floating around 17:28:38 ASN.1 might be a better choice for CL/Java wire interchange... 17:28:40 rpg: a flesh wound! 17:29:37 http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~ndantam3/dox/s-protobuf/ is the one from gatech 17:29:48 brown's project on common-lisp.net looks like the winner to me. 17:30:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:31:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.72.224] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:31:40 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:31:51 rpg: asn.1 is a bit complex though, so depends on what you need 17:32:10 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:16 binghe wrote a lot of asn.1 tools to support his cl-net-snmp project. 17:34:01 rpg: e.g., I came up with some limited lispy serialization stuff for cons/symbol/fixnum/string/blob types lately.. but that was for a toy thingy 17:34:12 Xach: thanks. Found brown's library.... 17:35:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:37:56 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:38:07 adeht: We have finally been forced to deal with old code that uses an s-expression based format + READ. We have an np-complete subroutine and READ is /still/ eating over 60% of our runtime! 17:38:51 rpg: I'm talking about a binary encoding.. tag bits and stuff 17:39:29 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 17:39:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:31 adeht: right. We've got a bloated format that was just easy for our eyeballs. But almost all the items could easily be represented with fixed-width fields. 17:40:48 So we are going to flip to a binary encoding. 17:41:05 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-174-164-97.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:07 XDR is another simple choice 17:41:14 (e.g., we have lots of strings that are really effectively "interned," and could be represented by integers, etc.) 17:42:11 marioxcc [~user@200.56.157.208] has joined #lisp 17:42:22 protocol buffers look like the right thing after all. 17:43:02 rpg: a symbol is just a "pointer" + tag bits 17:43:39 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-176-152-206.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:44:15 adeht: Right. What I was really saying, by "interned", was that the strings are all really enums that are *very* badly encoded! 17:44:20 rpg: (a symbol reference, that is..) the symbol itself of course has a name (string) and a package number (in my case) 17:44:44 i.e., not that they are lisp symbols, but that they play a symbol-like role. 17:47:38 -!- blandest [~user@79.112.105.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:38 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-123-143.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:53 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-123-143.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:48:19 mylogbot [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 17:49:06 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:35 Most of our strings could really be represented by a single byte... 17:49:54 rpg: enumerations :) 17:50:05 right. you said that. 17:50:18 that's what I get for reading backlogs from future to past 17:50:47 -!- mylogbot [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:01 Devon: What OS? Mac? What version of cmucl? 17:52:30 If Mac OSX, the upper limit of the heap size could very well be wrong. 17:52:52 LinkFly [~linkfly@94.158.187.24] has joined #lisp 17:53:30 astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-173.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:55:36 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-28-133.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-185.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:58:58 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-174-164-97.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:22 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:04 mylogbot [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:03:11 -!- mylogbot [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:30 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:10 Flibble24281 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 18:07:19 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:08:04 Flibble24292 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 -!- Flibble24292 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:21 Flibble24296 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:08:27 -!- Flibble24296 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:50 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:10:38 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:38 -!- Flibble24281 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:07 I understand how list* works, but when is it useful? 18:14:16 segmond: helpful for making new plists from old ones 18:14:23 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:31 (list* :x 42 :y 100 other-properties) 18:14:39 segmond: prepending some stuff to another list. Or making a list saving a cons cell 18:15:15 (list* 1 2 3 4) has 4 numbers, but only uses 3 conses instead of 4. It's possible you might care in some circumstance. :) 18:15:46 that is quite improper 18:15:59 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:08 ah, i see, i can use it as (list* 'a 'b (c d e)) to get '(a b c d e) instead '(a b (c d e)) 18:16:31 segmond: approximately. 18:18:01 Flibble24369 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 okay, thanks. just curious. :-) i guess it's one of those functions most don't encounter often. 18:18:19 -!- Flibble24369 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:18:51 segmond: I don't think it's all that obscure. 18:19:10 revappend, maybe. 18:19:16 oh, pardon my comment then with my newbie self. lol. 18:19:30 i have seen revappend in a book, but saw list* only when looking at hyperspec 18:19:40 Xach: wow, revappend is actually a function. 18:19:55 I've seen list* in the wild a lot more often than revappend 18:19:55 foom: you may turn your cl hacker badge in on your way out! 18:20:06 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 18:20:34 you know about pairlis, ldiff, conjugate, and schar, right? 18:20:39 there's 640 list* in this codebase and 0 revappend. 18:20:47 phase don't forget phase! 18:21:06 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:09 foom, which codebase? i need to download a bunch of lisp src so i can search through them in instances like this. :-/ 18:21:21 segmond: http://weitz.de/ has lots of code to browse 18:21:25 all i got is sbcl src and looking through that has me screaming for my parents. 18:21:37 18VAAXAVM [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:21:38 segmond: ITA's pricing and shopping engine. It's proprietary software. 18:21:40 xach, yeah, i know about weitz. i need to download them tho so i can search through them. :) 18:21:49 -!- 18VAAXAVM [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:16 foom, ah nevermind then. :) 18:22:41 foom, but looking through the code, can you see why they are using it instead of list? it can't be to save one extra cons 18:22:44 Flibble24398 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:22:49 segmond: yes it can. 18:23:02 -!- Flibble24398 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:40 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:02 Flibble24408 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:24:25 fwiw...0 pairlis, 1 ldiff, 0 conjugate, 72 schar. 18:24:26 LIST* is for when you have a list and you want to append multiple elements to the head all at once. 18:24:54 -!- Flibble24408 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:15 dlowe, (append to the head?) 18:25:52 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f667c54-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 18:26:13 daniel [~daniel@p5082F8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:13 segmond: the head of the list. the first cons 18:26:14 Flibble24431 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CD58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:28:14 aanand [~aanand@113.193.105.210] has joined #lisp 18:28:14 now nreconc, remprop, gentemp, prog*, dribble, ed, deposit-field, ldb-test, mask-field, with-condition-restarts, make-instances-obsolete, function-keywords... 18:28:15 dlowe: i think the comment is re append vs prepend 18:28:20 Phoodus [foo@174-17-12-60.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:30 you mean, like (apply #'list* 'y 'z 'u '(a b c) '()) ? 18:28:31 oh. fair enough 18:28:33 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-70-118.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:35 Flibble24452 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:28:41 -!- Flibble24452 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:52 -!- Flibble24431 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:03 I was thinking more of (lisp* 'y 'z 'u my-list) 18:29:05 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:09 adeht, why will you expect to see dribble or ed in a src file? I use those. :-p 18:29:12 Flibble24458 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:29:31 segmond: file may contain debugging aids 18:30:04 dlowe, with the '() at the end, you get (y z u . (whatevermy-listis)) 18:30:06 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 i can't use length on a list with a cons for the last element. 18:30:38 so i wonder what other functions that breaks besides length 18:30:56 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-28-133.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:56 rockon [~jellhell1@67.220.166.250] has joined #lisp 18:30:58 hello 18:31:04 segmond: everything that works with *sequences*. 18:31:04 are ther any body 18:31:04 anything that expects a proper list? 18:31:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:35 -!- Flibble24458 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:40 segmond: it'll be a proper list as long as the last element is a proper list 18:32:47 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:33:24 dlowe, true. i see it's use, not as verastile as list, but good enough. 18:33:27 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:33 segmond: mapc et al are the most common things that break for me if I accidentally get an improper list in 18:33:50 but yeah, (y z u . (list of things)) is still proper 18:34:29 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:34 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:03 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:07 the last cdr of a proper list must containt list, but not a cons. There is only one thing that fits that spec :) 18:35:15 contain a list* 18:35:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:15 drewc, where did you get that statement from? 18:36:20 cltl2? 18:36:26 I also did write a safe-length that returns (values length last-cdr) 18:36:41 which is handy for certain things 18:37:07 never heard of a proper list until now. :) 18:37:11 Phoodus: that (y z u ...) is not a proper list 18:37:45 segmond: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_14-1-2.html 18:37:49 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:05 segmond: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/26_glo_p.htm#proper_list 18:38:50 hmm, s/lw51/lw60/ :) 18:39:17 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 yeah, reading it now, so what kind of list is that list? it's not a circular list? so a dotted list? 18:39:31 yes 18:39:40 '(a b c . (d e f)) is still a proper lists 18:39:42 -s 18:40:11 Phoodus: if you mean the list (quote (a b c . (d e f))) then yes, it's a proper list. if you mean the list (a b c . (d e f)) it is not a proper list, but a dotted list 18:40:17 seeing as it's just shorthand for `(a . (b . (c . (d . (e . (f . nil)))))), which fits the proper chain of conses with last cdr being nil 18:40:30 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 18:40:55 the _list_ (a b c . (d e f)) is proper, isn't it? It probably won't eval to a proper list, though. 18:41:06 Phoodus: for the third time, no 18:41:16 "no" is not an explanation :-P 18:41:30 phoodus is right '(a b c . (d e f)) seems to be proper but (a b (c d e) .f) seems not 18:42:26 i can pass the first list to length and get 6 but the last one errs out with type f is not of type LIST... 18:42:32 sigh. a proper list is either nil or a cons whose cdr is a proper list 18:43:00 right, and (a b c . (d e f)) fits that description 18:43:22 each cdr is either nil or a cons whose cdr also fits 18:43:57 Okay, decision made: I'm not messing about with the package system any more this release if I can help it. 18:44:13 Flibble24591 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 heh, you're right.. I was confused 18:44:21 heh 18:44:36 of course, the lisp printer will never print it that way 18:44:40 (a b c . (d e f)) is equal to (a b c d e f) 18:44:50 not only equal, but equivalent 18:44:52 sdfasdfasdf 18:44:53 fasdf 18:45:18 -!- Flibble24591 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:17 rockon: go away. 18:46:41 It does seem that the heap size limit is wrong on mac os x. /usr/lib/dyld is always at 0x8fe2e000, which put the upper limit of the heap at 1150.17 MB. 18:46:51 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 18:47:27 Flibble24629 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:47:37 -!- Flibble24629 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:56 Jasko [~tjasko@mail.hvillage.org] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 jhgkjh 18:49:25 Flibble24651 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:51:32 How does :if-exists :rename and :if-exists :new-version differ on sbcl on unix? 18:51:42 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:52:06 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:52:47 tcr: Doesn't :rename apply to the old one, and :new-version insert an actual version number? 18:53:00 Something like that, at least. 18:53:12 Flibble24672 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:53:24 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:53:26 -!- Flibble24672 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:27 ah 18:53:33 Ideally I want :rename-and-warn 18:53:34 -!- Flibble24651 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:24 brown: On Xach's recommendation, we have pulled a copy of your protocol buffer library and it's looking good. thanks. 18:56:20 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:57:38 Flibble24697 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 18:59:03 sdafsadf 18:59:03 ads 18:59:04 fsadf 18:59:04 sdaf 18:59:04 dsa 18:59:13 hello 18:59:26 rockon: Really, go away. 18:59:37 rockon: If you're testing out your IRC client, do it somewhere else. 19:01:14 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:46 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02:42 h2 [~h@dh207-38-116.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 19:03:29 so, dynamic extent in SBCL. 19:03:33 (let ((result (make-array 2 :initial-contents (list (make-foo) (make-foo))))) 19:03:33 (declare (dynamic-extent result)) 19:03:51 yes? 19:03:52 it doesn't seem to get propagated into the allocation of the "foo" structs 19:04:09 -!- Flibble24697 [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:16 errr, hold on 19:04:21 probably not. 19:04:21 now It is. :) 19:04:38 problem solved, yay! 19:04:44 *Xach* wonders about (map-into (make-array 2) #'make-foo) being beside the point 19:05:02 Xach: you wouldn't get DX propagated through. 19:05:11 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has joined #lisp 19:06:10

19:06:24 The real problem isn't solved, I need to figure out why it's not d-x allocating in this real program, but in the test program I just forgot to (declaim (inline make-foo)). 19:06:37 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-216.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:07:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:07:43 It'd be nice if struct constructors didn't have to be declaimed inline for them to be dx allocatable, but not a big deal 19:08:05 -!- Kenjin_ [~Kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:10:09 *hefner* wonders if someone has implemented an enhanced CL reader as a library, incorporating various wishlist features like the ability to apply a package prefix to a whole s-exp 19:10:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-7.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 hefner: perhaps the dwim.hu guys 19:10:54 foom: we'd really have to implement DX with something like an allocation region for that to work. 19:11:19 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:11:38 hefner: pjb has a portable reader, we extended it to implement some features 19:11:56 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:04 it's gpl yummy :-) 19:12:38 -!- h2 [~h@dh207-38-116.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:12:57 actually, what are the other common things people wish the reader did? 19:13:33 ah, okay, *here's* an example where it doesn't work 19:13:35 foo:::bar to return an unresolved-symbol in case foo is not there 19:13:45 (let ((result (make-array 2 :initial-contents (list (make-foo :a (list 5)) (make-foo :a (list 6)))))) 19:14:00 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-185.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 19:14:30 hefner: package-bound readtables 19:15:29 hefner: package names as symbols with their own package 19:15:33 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-7.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:24 hefner: literal syntax for hashtables 19:16:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:56 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-185.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:13 hefner: the allegro reader still does that prefix trick 19:18:10 dlowe: I have the latter. it's very simple code 19:18:38 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-185.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:14 pkhuong: is it not allowable for SBCL to "know" that make-foo is a constructor function and treat it specially? 19:19:27 fe[nl]ix: sure, but there's value in having something agreed on. 19:19:43 where specially == if it's asked to be dx-allocated, do that instead of actually calling make-foo. 19:20:09 foom: lotta hair. Allocation region seems simpler 19:20:35 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:54 pkhuong: yup, just have to be careful that other escaping allocations aren't infected. 19:21:08 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.2.205] has joined #lisp 19:21:52 dlowe: "agreed on" ? 19:21:55 foom: yeah. dynamic scope for the region, lexical toggling of allocation in the region. 19:24:48 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-185.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 19:25:54 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:00 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:27 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has joined #lisp 19:27:06 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-28-99.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 okay, this is interesting... 19:27:13 (let* ((s (make-foo :a (list 5))) 19:27:13 (result (make-array 2 :initial-contents (list s (make-foo :a (list 6)))))) 19:27:24 (declare (dynamic-extent s result)) 19:27:31 the (list 5) is dx-allocated 19:27:35 the (list 6) is not 19:27:37 rtoym: That's CMUCL 20a of Sep 2009 under MacOS 10.6.3 19:27:38 everything else is 19:27:50 I cannot explain that one. :) 19:28:23 huh :if-exists :append signals an error if the file does not already exist? 19:28:31 Devon: Ok. I know the problem. The max allowed space was incorrect. You discovered the maximum of 1150. :-) 19:28:40 the hard way 19:29:06 Sorry about that. It's possible to make the limit a little larger than 1150. 19:29:24 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-176-70-118.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:29:27 is there a fix. While I was out at Trader Joe's I downloaded the latest cvs thinking to try gdb 19:30:34 Fix for what? That it doesn't crash if you specify more than 1150? Or that you can have more than 1150? 19:31:55 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BDBF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 I keep crashing out of memory, now I'm writing dreadful kludges like load-mapcar to cut some big data files down to size 19:32:35 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BDBF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:34 I put 4G in this iMac and the OS only sees 3G and with 2G free, lisp can't even use it, @#@%$#$%^&! 19:33:41 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:33:55 Ok. I can try moving things around to make more heap space. But it probably won't be much more than 1600 MB. 19:34:14 lol 19:35:01 ahh, that would be lovely 19:35:08 It could be made bigger, but the other spaces would need to shrink in size. 19:36:02 Or alternatively, using a 64-bit lisp like ccl, ecl, or sbcl. 19:36:19 or not keeping everyting in core... 19:37:00 I've been considering rolling my own vm but if I get to reinventing that wheel, ok, all the cool kids use SBCL anyway and I don't remember any more what feature SBCL lacks which made me choose CMUCL 19:37:43 how do i get back to the REPL while in slime if i'm editting a file? 19:37:53 C-c C-z 19:37:55 there ya go, drop lisp in favor of sql... 19:37:57 segmond: C-c C-z 19:37:58 thanks 19:38:09 Devon: Ok, I can try to increase the space a bit. 19:38:33 segmond: I use C-c s r 19:38:35 Devon: i wouldn't go that far.. just use rucksack! 19:38:44 minion: tell Devon about rucksack 19:38:45 Devon: please look at rucksack: Rucksack is a persistence library for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/rucksack 19:39:44 dlowe: Is that your own binding, C-c s r is nothing for me 19:39:54 devon: what are you doing that needs so much memory? 19:40:21 Guthur: It may be a slime contrib you're not using. 19:41:15 Guthur: (add-to-list 'slime-setup-contribs 'slime-repl) 19:41:49 uh I didn't not that's possible 19:42:05 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-185.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:12 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) is the usually recommended way 19:42:14 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:42:30 C-c s r is from slime-selector 19:42:31 dlowe: the slime-selector is not bound to any key by default 19:42:49 I use it all the time 19:43:07 tcr: doh, you're right. My .emacs has clearly gotten too large 19:44:29 adeht: i use it a million times per day. 19:44:57 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 19:45:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:30 Xach: yeah :).. I didn't even remember what C-c C-z is for :d 19:47:05 Devon: The max appears to be 1278. To make it bigger, the size of the other spaces must shrink. 19:48:16 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 Is this memory squeeze some systemic MacOS flaw? 19:50:00 Partly. It appears that /usr/lib/dyld is always mapped at 0x8fe2e000. 19:50:20 The removal of the squeeze will be a feature of the next version 19:50:33 Does cmucl have a 2-gig limit on 32-bit heaps? 19:50:36 Devon: well, you can try CCL, unless you really need some feature of CMUCL 19:50:47 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:50:51 Sparc allows 2816 MB of heap. But I've never tested that. 19:51:24 (ISTR SBCL having a limit to do with hash codes that required the high bit of all heap pointers to be clear.) 19:51:50 nope, sbcl worked fine > 2GB. 19:52:20 It was almost certainly since fixed, but it was definitely there at some point. 19:52:30 nyef: Hmm. There is a magic hash thing with a value of #x80000000. 19:52:53 Something to do with fixnum hash values being taken directly from a tagged heap pointer. 19:54:49 devon: It's a consequence of how CMUCL and SBCL manage memory in a big contiguous chunk. There's bound to be things mapped by the OS that fragment the address space, limiting how much you can enlarge the heap. The solution is to use a 64-bit lisp where there's plenty of room for everyone. 19:56:16 or use relocatable patch 19:57:06 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 sxhash takes top 29 bits of a fixnum. 19:58:08 Does the relocatable patch just allow the entire heap to be in a different place? 19:59:20 *hefner* can't remember, and can't find the patches via google 19:59:27 rtoym: yes. There was a companion patch that changed allocation from continuous chunk to incremental 20:00:01 It's kind funny that these OSes have such fixed addresses. Solaris will map libraries and such wherever there's space, and allocates from top of memory down. 20:00:18 p_l: Sounds cool. 20:00:42 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 20:02:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:04:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@mail.hvillage.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:07:33 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:11:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 *hefner* wonders if commas as whitespace (as in Clojure) are a worthwhile feature. 20:13:41 yuck 20:14:09 yeah, I don't see the appeal either. 20:14:33 much of clojure reeks of bad taste to me 20:14:48 nice metaphor mixing :) 20:18:38 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@blaster.blast.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:25:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:57 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:25:59 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:27:04 rpg: Let me know if you have trouble. 20:27:11 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:27:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:27:13 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:27:25 Xach: Thanks for the recommendation .... 20:27:32 sdkmvx [~martin@unaffiliated/sdkmvx] has joined #lisp 20:27:32 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 20:28:29 I'm having a problem building lift on SBCL. ALl I can find on google is a paste for this channel, but no solution: http://paste.lisp.org/display/98816 20:29:10 brown: Will do. seems to be working for us on 64-bit SBCL. Some challenges with ACL, because we're using 32-bit ACL on 64-bit OS. 20:29:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:29:25 brown: I'll keep you posted. Probably be next week before I have more info. 20:29:51 sdkmvx: My source code database says: lift darcs "http://common-lisp.net/project/lift/darcs" 20:30:26 brown, this still fails with the version in git 20:30:46 rpg: My email address should be in one of the files .... 20:30:58 unless 20:31:22 brown: Yes. My colleague, Mike Pelican, might have an email for you. I'm off now; good weekend. 20:31:31 it does still fail with git 20:32:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:34:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:19 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 20:35:24 What does (do do? 20:35:30 sdkmvx: Perhaps the code is trying to use a metaobject protocol function ni the MOP package. On SBCL the mop functions live in package SB-MOP. 20:36:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-130-186.vodafone.hu] has left #lisp 20:39:22 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:08 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:40:28 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:55 clhs do 20:40:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_do.htm 20:42:15 X-02 [~schopenha@p1124-ipbf209kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:43:15 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.171.13.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:42 Lectus [~Frederico@189.105.26.250] has joined #lisp 20:47:59 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-155.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:30 -!- LinkFly [~linkfly@94.158.187.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:00 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:26 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:05 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:52:05 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-11-98-155.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:39 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 20:53:53 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:54:57 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-40.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:37 kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:47 p0a [~user@athedsl-375890.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:03:30 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:46 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 21:04:00 Hello I want to try writing some games with sdl and lisp. I also know C. What's a good source? I don't mind if the code is in either language, just want to get a feel of what writing games in SDL is like. 21:04:32 p0a: Programming Linux Games 21:04:51 -!- PuffTheMagic is now known as JohnnyBlaze 21:05:43 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:27 ost, seems to be what I need. :) 21:08:30 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:13 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:42 anyone know of a sparkl CL library? 21:11:32 sparql? 21:11:45 query language for rdf and such 21:11:56 clhs do 21:11:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_do.htm 21:12:21 here's one: http://www.holygoat.co.uk/projects/twinql/ 21:12:45 nice name 21:12:49 turned into sicl 21:13:07 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 21:13:40 hi there, can you change the set of characters used as symbols? 21:14:11 the set of characters is disjoint from the set of symbols 21:15:28 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:40 hmm, maybe my expression was bad. I'd like to change what I can use as symbols 21:18:45 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:54 *you* can use any characters you like as symbols, but I suppose you want to change what the reader interprets as symbols. 21:19:20 for example, we can't use colon because it's reserved, but I'd like to substitute other character to use colon in a symbol 21:19:50 X-02: you can.. just escape it 21:19:52 yes that's what I mean, thx 21:19:56 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:20:09 X-02: this-symbol-contains-\: 21:20:53 or |This-:-looks-funny!| 21:21:02 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:08 Now it's occured to me that what I'd like to do is change the syntax, maybe 21:21:28 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:22:13 Thanks both then I think there is a way.. 21:23:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:48 TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.212.226.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:26:27 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:39 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-40.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:46 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 -!- p0a [~user@athedsl-375890.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:31:45 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-154.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:48 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 21:35:18 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:35 rokybid [~foolio@67.220.166.250] has joined #lisp 21:36:04 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:45 -!- rokybid [~foolio@67.220.166.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:58 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-154.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:41:16 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:23 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d48.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:15 okay, the use-case I thought of for commas as whitespace is as a visual hint to separate groups of items in something like a property list or a LOOP where the structure isn't nested e.g. (loop for x below 10, as foo = (oddp x), collect (list x foo)) 21:45:22 that isn't terrible. 21:45:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:17 -!- rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 21:48:32 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has quit [Quit: BAR!] 21:48:45 rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 21:52:15 iwao [~iwao@p3216-ipad08yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:53:44 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:02 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:26 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:01:18 hefner: your "visual hints" are my "visual clutter" 22:02:08 how do they work with backquotes btw 22:02:17 heh 22:02:54 Clojure uses ~ and ~@ in place of , and ,@ 22:03:12 ugh 22:04:16 ~. too? 22:05:02 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-98-118-48-156.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 22:05:03 CrucialMere [~foolio@67.220.166.250] has joined #lisp 22:05:15 -!- CrucialMere [~foolio@67.220.166.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:28 Doesn't look like there's an equivalent to that. Hardly surprising. 22:11:46 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:49 -!- Lectus [~Frederico@189.105.26.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:56 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-173.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:12:48 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:27 adeht: that would really screw up ssh sessions! 22:13:38 adeht: kinda like c-m backspace 22:13:54 heh 22:14:07 *adeht* tries 22:14:25 :) 22:15:13 -!- jasonx [jasonx@78-1-135-36.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:16:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:17:11 jasonx [jasonx@93-138-24-110.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:20:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:21:29 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 22:23:51 jackhat [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has joined #lisp 22:23:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:22 -!- jackhat [~root@uhura.makeitsoyoubonehead.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:26:47 maden_ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:28:07 WePac [~bubble@p54AA5469.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:39 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:29:28 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:03 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:15 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:04 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:47 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:50 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:03 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:16 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:38:29 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:28 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:46 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:12 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:31 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:41 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:53:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:02 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:54:31 rread_ [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:11 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-yomkhyztzefycssl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57:11 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 22:58:25 hi all 22:58:27 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:58:31 penny` [~penny@g227164126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:52 żIs there a CL macro/special form like lables but for macros? 22:59:18 i want to do a local, recursive macro 23:00:05 macrolet will do that for you alright 23:00:22 or else labels inside you macro definition 23:01:10 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:23 Fare: MIT map link is broken on the boston-lisp-meeting post. 23:01:35 ok 23:04:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:52 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:15 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA5469.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:42 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031482.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:45 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-91-123.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:48 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:19:15 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:19 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:21:22 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:14 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-252-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 23:28:03 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:24 waterless_cloud [~waterless@adsl-75-56-209-205.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 23:31:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 23:32:03 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 23:32:55 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-94-57.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:36:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.168.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:01 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 23:39:33 TR2N [email@89.180.237.1] has joined #lisp 23:40:06 -!- benny [~benny@i577A788A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:58 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.212.54] has joined #lisp 23:41:57 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:42:56 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:43:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@216.Red-217-125-15.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:46:28 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:47:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:06 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:13 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:52:23 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 23:54:54 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:56:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:19 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:25 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-btzjopytxbnbjvjs] has joined #lisp