00:00:37 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@m820736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:01:13 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:15 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:02 As a guess when you pass an integer it will use single-float in the calculation so losing some precision 00:04:13 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:43 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 00:05:22 Actually that has no basis what so ever, so probably best ignored 00:06:02 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 tcr: The sb-concurrent test still hasn't failed yet with the timeout set to 90 00:09:12 -!- mle [~emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:53 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839B9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:09:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:10:32 Guthur: You're not too far off (expt 2 #c(-2d0 -1d0)) is the same as (exp (* #c(-2d0 -1d0) (log 2))) 00:11:11 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:11:54 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:27 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:40 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:29:30 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:35 benny [~benny@i577A8A0C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:40:39 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:43 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 00:49:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:49:17 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 00:50:14 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:05:15 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.16.68] has quit [] 01:05:43 Phoodus [foo@174-22-192-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:17 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:19 -!- lnostdal-web [~50cb88a2@gateway/web/freenode/x-ybioawvttwifxafl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:09:58 maden [~maden@dsl-147-76.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:12:02 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:42 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:13:51 can someone give me help with my noobie code? 01:14:38 It will be hard for them without actually seeing it 01:14:53 http://pastebin.com/SKwDB8Ja 01:15:22 Ouch. 01:15:40 I am supposed to "define a procedure that takes three numbers as arguments and returns the sum of the square of the two larger numbers" 01:15:54 I'm just a super noob, so go easy.. :\ 01:16:06 Okay, AND doesn't do what you think it does. 01:16:08 clhs and 01:16:11 Grr... 01:16:15 Damnit, specbot! 01:16:24 Ya bots are awol big time 01:16:41 minion is the only one staying the course 01:16:42 clhs? 01:17:01 common lisp hyperspec 01:17:11 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:14 clhs and 01:17:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_and.htm 01:17:22 nyef: Nice 01:17:39 minion: You here? 01:17:39 what's up? 01:17:42 Good enough. 01:17:46 lisppaste: url? 01:17:46 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 01:17:53 Okay, that'll do for now. 01:18:22 #lisp locked and loaded 01:18:38 with alien bot technology 01:18:39 Thomas_H: What you're attempting to say is that B and C are greater than A, right? 01:19:05 Well, both B and C. 01:19:17 I'm trying to have it test to see if a and b are both greater than c 01:19:38 and then if it isn't, to go onto the next condition 01:19:41 in theory :| 01:19:41 But the behavior of AND isn't quite what you want. 01:19:46 How would you write it if it were math question? 01:19:47 right... 01:19:57 So what you need to say is that A is greater than C and B is greater than C. 01:20:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has joined #lisp 01:21:15 so instead of (> (and a b) c) it should be (and (> a c ) (> b c)) ? 01:21:27 Exactly. 01:21:36 ahhh that makes sense. 01:21:56 And if you read the specification for AND, you hopefully will see why. 01:23:21 why is it called a macro? 01:24:25 "Macro" is another term for "source transform". 01:24:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:25:07 Basically, it doesn't have to evaluate all of its arguments, and it can do various fun things with them other than evaluation. 01:25:22 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:25:23 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:25:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:44 right. 01:25:50 Macros are one of the cool things about common lisp, but they're also one of the mind-bending things. 01:26:09 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eavxmdzipemifvzd] has joined #lisp 01:26:19 now, I am working with scheme... is there a big difference? 01:26:43 depends what scheme, I guess. 01:26:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:27:17 Scheme systems tend towards a different macro system... And you'll get better help in #scheme. 01:27:56 right, so I was under the impression that scheme and lisp were effectively the same thing 01:28:42 Yeah, that's what the scheme people say... 01:28:43 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 01:28:44 Thomas_H: "Lisp" refers to a family of languages, to which both Scheme (fragmented as it is) and Common Lisp belong. 01:29:50 fragmented? 01:29:55 :| 01:30:39 Thomas_H: I have yet to find two Scheme implementations that would be fully compatible... 01:30:43 <_3b> scheme has a smaller core, so implementations tend to add lots of feeatures, and not always the same ones, or the same way 01:31:44 Yeah, and this goes further, so while CL manages to go on with few compatibility libraries (or stuff that "fixes" certain elements, like closer-mop) in Scheme you get much bigger range to cover. 01:34:23 so what does that mean for me? 01:35:31 Thomas_H: well, not much, except the fact that this channel concentrates on Common Lisp :) 01:35:33 <_3b> not much, since for classwork you will probably be staying within the core stuff 01:35:59 <_3b> but #scheme is a better place for questions specificallly about scheme 01:37:18 I'm just studying independently, so its hard for me to really know what is core and what isn't :\ 01:38:01 What book are you studying from? 01:39:21 Thomas_H pasted "Square greatest numbers" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98941 01:39:48 Structure and interpretation of computer programs 01:40:17 so how should I go about testing that and is there a better way to do it? 01:42:51 I'm just starting to learn myself. Except I'm going with Common Lisp and some other book/s instead of Scheme & SICP. 01:43:11 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:43:34 I have a hardcopy of the book so I figured 'who not?' 01:44:00 It is pretty tricky to get my head around some of the concepts 01:45:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eavxmdzipemifvzd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:51 I would probably go with common lisp and something easier if I didn't have it 01:50:30 I read some SICP and got through most of the first chapter or so before I stopped. But that was a long time ago, so I'm basically learning Common Lisp from the beginning. 01:50:37 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:52:07 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:16 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:35 hello 01:55:56 A few days ago, someone pasted an issue with LIFT not building. Anyone have a workaround? http://paste.lisp.org/display/98816 01:59:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:59:33 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:04:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:04:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has joined #lisp 02:05:47 wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d8177fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:07 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81b478.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:15:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:03 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-180-83.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:53 skeledrew1 [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:08 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:21 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:35 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:36 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:01 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:23:03 minion: memo for tcr: Those 100 sb-concurrent tests on AMD64 completed, no errors, with a timeout of 90 02:23:03 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 02:27:18 leo2007 pasted "slime setup question" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98942 02:29:47 Is slime-auto-connect similar to the setting in 98942 which I learnt from slime manual? 02:30:11 no 02:30:47 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:36 slime-auto-connect connects whenever it needs a connection, not upon opening a buffer 02:31:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:33:26 *p_l* ponders how evil would be to fill GC into unused execution slots... 02:33:49 for IA-64? 02:34:10 Concurrent or incremental GCs aren't exactly simple beasts. 02:34:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:35 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:35:44 pkhuong: I know. It's just the question of "how much can you fill there" 02:39:46 rrice: I think that the solution was either a) use clbuild and not asdf-install to install it all, and b) compile a SBCL that is not over a year old. 02:40:46 p_l: I'd just stop worrying about dead architectures. 02:41:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:48 stassats: thanks. 02:44:35 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:48 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-110.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:54:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:55:39 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-131-228.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:03 lakkris [~kvirc@2001:0:53aa:64c:1cdd:672e:9cc5:fe3f] has joined #lisp 02:59:44 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:00:23 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8C374.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:05 when I set swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* to nil I am getting 'channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused' 03:03:20 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:17 astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:05:54 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:07:14 -!- lakkris is now known as bandu 03:08:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:15:34 oh god, the point still jumps in the repl sometimes 03:19:30 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.151.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:45 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8C374.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 03:22:30 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-180-83.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [K-Lined] 03:25:40 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:06 can someone recommend a good lisp implementation? 03:30:12 SBCL 03:30:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:48 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-147-76.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:02 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-132-121-145.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:09 *rme* wonders what to say in cases like this. 03:31:22 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:33 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:14 rme: just don't recommend GCL, the rest are alright 03:32:31 heh 03:37:28 well, CLISP maybe not as alright as SBCL/CCL/ACL/LW ? :D 03:37:41 (ECL is for hardcores) 03:39:23 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:26 leo2007 pasted "slime hangs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98944 03:40:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:40:54 any idea why slime-connect hangs as in 98944? 03:41:51 ENOENOUGHINFO 03:42:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:57 I just run slime-connect but it prints error in process filter: open-network-stream: make client process failed: connection refused, :name, *lisp-output-stream*, :buffer, *cl-connection*, :host, 127.0.0.1, :service, 50896 03:44:12 then freezes there forever until I hit C-g 03:44:21 the paste is the backtrace. 03:44:54 It has no problem with a swank server started on the same machine. 03:45:01 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:46:03 <_3b> leo2007: how did you tell it to talk to another machine? (ip addr, tunnel, ?) 03:47:08 ssh tunnel 03:47:28 I have LocalForward 4007 localhost:4001 in the ssh config 03:47:53 <_3b> 50896 doesn't sound like 4007 or 4001, should it? 03:49:07 50896? where is this number from? 03:49:33 <_3b> the error you pasted: ":host, 127.0.0.1, :service, 50896" 03:50:44 <_3b> which is where it shows the number i type in for "Port:" in slime connect prompts if i enter garbage 03:51:08 I can find any 'service' in my paste 03:51:16 s/can/can't/ 03:51:22 <_3b> dunno why it hangs on connection refused though, doesn't seem to object beyongd the message here 03:51:27 <_3b> pasted into the channel i mean 03:51:41 ahh 03:52:11 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:34 weird, I set slime-port to 4007 and didn't do anything at the prompt 03:53:17 and I have (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) too 03:53:30 <_3b> did the prompt show 4007? 03:55:41 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.201] has joined #lisp 03:55:54 I tried again still with 4007 and this time service is changed to 38340 03:56:25 yes, the prompt shows 4007 03:57:04 like this http://imagebin.org/96066 03:57:23 <_3b> have you updated OS packages recently? my emacs has been flaky since the last time i updated ubuntu, might be related 03:57:57 *_3b* probably just needs to restart emacs or something though 03:58:06 no, I use osx. 03:58:51 I have tried that but same problem occurs. the setup was alright for the past 2 days. 03:58:57 but stopping work just now. 03:59:14 <_3b> did you specify utf8 when starting the swank server? 03:59:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has joined #lisp 03:59:21 i did 03:59:28 schme: Sorry, I was away. I was using clbuild and installed a fresh sbcl. I was doing "./clbuild dumpcore --installed" 03:59:33 should that be removed? 03:59:59 <_3b> no, utf8 is good, just that i see 8859-1 a bunch of times in the backtrace you pasted 04:00:08 like this (swank:create-server :dont-close t :coding-system "utf-8-unix" :port 4001) 04:00:25 _3b: that's weird too 04:00:32 <_3b> try "utf-8" 04:02:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:02:16 no luck 04:02:18 same issue 04:03:08 <_3b> did it at least change the encoding mentioned in the backtrace? 04:03:32 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-221-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:36 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-193-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:43 "utf-8-unix" is the right encoding 04:03:54 I can see the connection is established. because when quitting swank, emacs prints error in process filter: Lisp connection closed unexpectedly. 04:03:54 <_3b> ah, guess my setup is wrong then :) 04:04:16 _3b: the encoding is still iso-latin-... 04:04:43 -!- skeledrew1 [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:05:09 _3b: see slime-net-valid-coding-systems 04:05:16 -!- bandu is now known as bandU 04:07:56 -!- astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:38 astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:11:04 pnq [~gaiug@ACA26421.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:32 _3b: I'm updating slime and will try again. But the setting has been working before. 04:14:36 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:42 bitflip`` [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:53 <_3b> leo2007: were you the one that pasted stuff earlier about automatically connecting in slime-mode hook? if so, is that still active? 04:18:26 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:18:34 _3b: i didn't change slime-auto-connect but the hook is active. 04:18:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:18:54 updated slime gives same error. 04:19:05 *_3b* would try disabling that hook 04:19:11 -!- bitflip` [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:23 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:45 <_3b> well, not adding that function to it, rather than disabling it completely 04:20:03 *_3b* has no idea what else is normally there 04:20:20 same problem. 04:20:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:21:00 is 'service' designates the port? If so it is upsetting. 04:21:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zolvxuaentajdehj] has joined #lisp 04:21:06 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 04:21:14 it changes every time 04:23:09 <_3b> and after you get that error, if you kill the swank server, it complains about connection closed? 04:23:24 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:31 yes 04:24:45 <_3b> strange, seems like it tries to connect multiple times 04:25:55 *_3b* would probably add a BREAK or whatever elisp equivalent to slime-connect or similar to try to figure out where 04:26:02 *_3b* doesn't know much about debugging elisp though 04:26:08 If I don't use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-banner slime-asdf slime-indentation)), I can connect without no problem. But as I said this setting has no problem a few hours ago. 04:26:48 it's (debug) instead of (break) in elisp 04:27:11 also M-x toggle-debug-on-error and M-x toggle-debug-on-entry 04:27:19 <_3b> well, presumably /something/ changed, maybe clbuild upgraded you slime when you weren't looking? 04:27:26 s/toggle-debug-on-entry/debug-on-entry/ 04:27:42 <_3b> you could also try disabling various contribs and see if that helps isolate it 04:28:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:22 I don't use auto update. 04:28:31 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 04:28:38 <_3b> i mean if you install something using clbuild that has a dep on slime/swank 04:28:59 I don't use clbuild. 04:29:06 <_3b> ah, probably not that then :) 04:29:30 I update packages only when it is necessary. 04:31:24 is the communication between swank and emacs likely to cause any suspicion about network misuse? 04:31:56 when I found my slime cannot connect to remote swank, the port 4005 is also blocked. 04:32:05 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:32:14 so I have to move it to 4001. 04:37:34 can connect to sbcl but not ccl 04:39:53 I guess i will look at it tomorrow. Thanks for help, _3b. 04:42:34 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-15-22.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:44:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:45:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:49:42 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:58:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-146-158.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:31 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:05:58 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:55 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:07:29 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@82.148.30.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:10:14 grouzen [~grouzen@82.148.30.97] has joined #lisp 05:17:14 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.233] has joined #lisp 05:17:38 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:17 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-146-158.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 05:18:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:19:06 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-146-158.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:53 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 05:20:12 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-146-158.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:20:55 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:26 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:37 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:25:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26:16 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 05:26:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:28:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 05:32:11 -!- seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-29-148-251.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:50 -!- astoon [~quassel@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:58 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-193-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:37:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:43:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-131-228.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:44:45 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:07 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:04 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:53:10 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:55:19 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` is now known as syskopomp|jeejah 05:57:46 tcr [~tcr@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:58:03 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:00:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 06:00:26 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:04 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:08:34 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 06:12:21 -!- pnq [~gaiug@ACA26421.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:15:06 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-183.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:26 -!- kloeri [kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:17:59 kloeri [kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 06:20:37 clos is a real mind bender 06:20:48 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.133] has joined #lisp 06:21:27 *stassats* is bending his mind with slime-repl 06:21:27 I can't get the idea of x->y or a.b out of my head ;) 06:22:09 i'll apply "if you can't understand it, rewrite from scratch" 06:22:42 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:43 I've barely scratched the surface. The whole generics/methods thing is just alien as hell. 06:24:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:24:32 *stassats* learned CLOS without prior knowledge of other object systems 06:25:09 stassats: ah, that would be a blessing I would guess 06:25:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:25:56 minion: Keene? 06:25:57 Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 06:26:06 that book was helpful 06:27:06 stassats: nod, someone mentioned that. I've visited amazon a couple times but not ordered it just yet. Still reading every tutorial I can find on the net. And slogging through the clos section of CLtL2 (that's some twisted reading) 06:27:22 bytecolor: first of all, try internalizing what an object system is, at least the Simula/smalltalk style, then when you grasp the concepts of it (not the bastardised C++ variant) move to CLOS 06:27:32 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet2049.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 06:27:45 another good example is Haskell typeclass construct. 06:28:09 *p_l* actually used Haskell to break through his cognitive barrier when it came to CLOS 06:28:17 p_l: well see that's just it, my oo knowledge comes form C++ and Python 06:30:21 I'm still taking bits of Qt and rewriting in cl. It's far far from a 1 to 1 mapping. 06:31:03 plage [~user@a81-84-240-140.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 06:31:09 Good morning! 06:32:33 evening 06:34:21 I take it you are not at ELS. 06:34:23 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:34:40 west coast US 06:35:07 ... and that's not where ELS is organized this time. 06:36:13 just a few miles away ;) 06:36:24 er kilometers, sorry... 06:37:36 typically American to mix up measures and units. "A short distance away". 06:38:12 as in votage, mileage, footage, etc. 06:39:03 a few miles is a short distance, isn't it? 06:39:09 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:30 plage: americans are mental keeping their idiotic units ;-) 06:48:53 I have a map of the US dating from 1979 where on the back it says "Soon the USA will convert to metric units", and then goes on to explain what they are. 06:50:42 I wouldn't call them "idiotic", I mean units are arbitrary anyway to some extent. But it is a bit strange that, given that things changed elsewhere, they didn't follow. 06:51:33 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:53:54 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:54:28 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:54:54 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:55:00 HG` [~HG@xdsleb012.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:59:18 imperial system can be good for some things 06:59:45 a foot is much easier to work in the real world compared to approx. 30cm 07:00:02 plage: I call the units idiotic because they have crazy conversions and don't follow a logical schema, not to mention having roots in *very* imprecise medieval measures. 07:00:22 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:00:27 Thomas_H: Were you raised in a country that used imperial system? 07:01:06 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:01:53 cause I hell can't get around imperial system no matter how I try - the only place I can suffer it is when it's only Nautical Miles and units related to them, while doing navigation. 07:02:48 *plage* decides not to feed any more of this discussion. 07:03:13 and believe me, finding out that you have to fly by your butt and ear because you can't trust instruments due to different units was ... hell. 07:05:11 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:06:20 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:06:53 -!- plage [~user@a81-84-240-140.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 07:08:01 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:09:19 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:09:57 -!- amaron 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[~leo@r190-135-46-195.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:08:34 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:16 what I find most interesting about clos is that it does not beat the encaplusation drum. afaik I can still get at any slot with slot-value. I got a taste of this with python where a _ or __ prefix is used to inform a user that they _should not_ modify that val. 09:12:47 But it's not actually built into the language with private: 09:12:49 you can use % for that same reason 09:13:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@91.201.133.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:03 also you can use uninterned symbols for slot names 09:13:19 but you still can access them, through MOP 09:13:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:39 bytecolor: the funny thing is that CLOS actually reminds me of old Unix approach 09:14:14 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:14:25 Simula/Smalltalk style was "communicating objects". CLOS is more "functions operating on data - Abstracted" 09:15:46 (though don't beat me if I get such metaphors wrong) 09:15:51 nod, it's the whole functional paradigm that I'm going to _have_ to embrace if I'm going to get anywhere with lisp 09:16:00 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.221] has joined #lisp 09:16:01 not really... 09:16:14 bytecolor: btw, have you worked with Ruby? 09:17:04 p_l: not at all, well I looked at it once when I was writing pytgon and thought, meh. 09:17:31 I remember reading a ruby thread on continuations 09:17:37 it goes slightly more explicit towards Smalltalk model, putting more emphasis on the fact that methods are messages. 09:17:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:03 Python, last time I checked, wasn't completely in that direction 09:19:44 mm2718 [~michael@meadows.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 I don't know smalltalk at all 09:22:09 bytecolor: well, Ruby was inspired by it a lot. 09:22:09 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:39 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 09:23:46 bytecolor: also, unlike Python community (afaik), Ruby loves monkey patching and uses it in big amounts. 09:26:13 duck typing and monkey patching, only a programmer could come up with these ;) 09:26:47 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:05 I think what I'm having difficulty with most is congruency. A c++ method is tied to an instance. (single dispatch? I think.) A method can have any number of args of any type. But it's as if a generic has to cover a wide range of objects with the same arity. 09:31:44 nurv [nurv@83.231.87.201] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 Hi. 09:32:53 bytecolor: and how well methods of different arity compose in C++? 09:33:37 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.81] has joined #lisp 09:33:50 bytecolor: a method in C++ belongs to class, not instance 09:34:31 only if it's static 09:34:47 md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 09:34:49 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:58 pix4_ [~pixel@p4FC5591D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:00 actually, even less. static methods are just apropriately-named functions. Virtual methods are resolved through per-class jump table. 09:35:04 I do get :allocation that maps almost to c++ 09:36:25 without having to actually instantiate outside of the class 09:36:29 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37:24 never got around to writing c++ in c, that must be horrible ;) 09:37:49 when C++ compiler encounters call to a non-virtual method, it simply places call to mangled form of method signature with C++ calling convention. When it encounters a call to virtual method, it inlines code to decode the correct index in vtable for the necessary class and jumps to the address that was stored at said index. 09:38:02 -!- pix4 [~pixel@p4FC56119.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:03 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.153] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 classes simply don't exist in C++ runtime other than names 09:38:44 (nota bene, a C++ class is a struct with an extra struct or two inside + class fields.) 09:40:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:59 the only unclear thing: what has that got to do with Lisp? 09:41:01 and methods itself just have an extra parameter that specifies the contents of "this" 09:41:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gdzaapektjoqwsyd] has joined #lisp 09:41:16 stassats: comparisons of Object Systems for someone struggling with CLOS? 09:41:28 Now if we could get some spec on Sheeple here... 09:42:45 *p_l* isn't good with prototype-based ones 09:44:38 stassats: well I can write oo code in c++. But I can not write oo code in lisp. I would think someone would have written a c++->clos primer. 09:45:03 so that you can write c++ in lisp? what's the point? 09:45:19 no, so I can write oo in lisp ;) 09:45:37 so, read on CLOS in Lisp, forget about c++ 09:46:51 -!- bandU [~kvirc@2001:0:53aa:64c:1cdd:672e:9cc5:fe3f] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:22 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:49:07 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:27 bytecolor, this text is a bit retarded, but might be worth reading: http://mikael.jansson.be/log/newbie-guide-to-lisp-oo#introducing-the-clos -- what you want, though, is a text called something like "clos at rocket speed", but I can't find it. 09:51:07 I just ordered Keene 09:51:13 that's a good book. 09:51:22 should be here Monday 09:51:44 Anyone else remember the rocket something or the other clos? 09:52:22 Command to Line-Of-Sight, for rocket guidance? 09:52:34 not that one. :-) 09:53:10 Silly google.q 09:53:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:57:09 hm, there's no trivial-fsync 09:58:17 is there a standard on what trivial- means? 09:58:23 simple wrapper? 09:58:36 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 09:58:59 can be understood with only grammar, rhetoric and logic education 10:02:32 that computes: generic functions are similar to pure virtual fns 10:03:23 ccl seems to fsync on finish-output 10:05:42 bytecolor: consider a ball class and a rock class, each have a "bounce" method 10:05:50 but now you want a method for when a ball collides with a rock 10:05:57 do you put that on ball? do you put that on rock? 10:06:13 or does the _method_ stand on its own and can handle various types in various ways? that's what multimethods can do 10:06:38 depends on whether you haven enough balls to rock 10:07:00 and balls of steel will be a separate abstraction 10:08:47 Phoodus: your example has this little problem that generic functions need to have the same arity 10:09:09 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-88-201.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:09:15 can't they do &rest just like any other function? 10:09:24 unless you describe the pair of objects as different class... 10:09:34 Phoodus: yes, but you can't specialize on &rest 10:10:04 so you're talking about this example in terms of N colliding bodies, instead of an individual collision between 2? 10:10:48 Phoodus: I'm talking about the case where you made a (defgeneric bounce (object)) 10:11:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:46 and (defgeneric collide (obj1 obj2)) would be a separate method 10:11:58 arguably, object can't bounce on its own 10:12:04 something like bounce, in a very simple example, can just exist on an object itself 10:12:26 but once you've got object interaction between variable types, there's no reason that the method would live on either one in particular 10:13:17 get-color would probably be a better example than bounce, yeah :) 10:13:32 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:14:12 (defmethod get-color (object (observer colour-blind))) 10:14:32 haha 10:14:32 and that brings up the distinction where in C++ style OO, there'd have to be an interface defining that getColor method that multiple object types subscribe to 10:14:54 whereas in multimethods, the objects can be relatively unaware of the type-spanning multimethods that can act on it 10:15:39 personally, I'd break tha up into get-raw-color and raw-color-to-observed-color ;) 10:16:30 GET-REST-MASS would be a better example 10:16:54 ENFORCE-READER-CASE-IN-IRC-EXAMPLES 10:17:02 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 10:17:02 hahahahaha 10:17:25 *p_l* should make himself a transcoder for that. 10:18:38 hm, for every "'(" in your input, read and print it ;) 10:20:00 btw, do you guys think that there's a chance at recovering Linj? I could try finding the binaries for CMUCL 18e and reverse engineering them, but I was thinking more among the lines of catching original author and getting him to release it to public... 10:20:41 does it have any value? 10:21:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:21:33 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:22:03 in my opinion yes, but I have practical interest in its use... 10:22:14 (like nicer way to write apps for Android) 10:23:24 stray_hound___ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:01 it certainly sounds easier than trying to make a lisp that directly emits Dalvik instructions :) 10:24:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:57 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:57 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-maplttrgchnqodli] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:57 -!- Yamazaki-kun 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[~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:17 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:50:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:55:57 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 10:56:57 laynor [~ale@109.78.36.77] has joined #lisp 10:57:42 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:58:03 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:59:23 -!- laynor_ [~ale@109.77.119.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:59:55 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:01:42 p_l: linj was released as open source some time ago 11:02:23 problem is that it does not emit java generic crap which was added later, AFAIK 11:02:46 java generics crap I meant 11:03:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75595e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:26 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:35 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:20 -!- kloeri [kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Quit: brb] 11:06:42 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-121.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:06:56 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 11:07:11 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:07:31 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-56.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:07:43 md1: linj is nowhere to be found (or at least i couldn't find it either binary or source except some references to "it existed"). 11:08:03 -!- bozhidar` is now known as bozhidar 11:13:03 -!- 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If I (step (myform ...)) emacs opens a buffer '*SLIME Source Form*'. what am I supposed to do? 11:17:59 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:19:43 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:19:44 sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-38.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 benny [~benny@i577A8A0C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Aperculum [~laurihak@unaffiliated/aperculum] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-93b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:46 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:22:16 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:23:03 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23:22 Guthur [~michael@host86-132-121-145.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:26:16 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:27 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:27:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:14 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A759.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:30 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 11:28:53 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:29:06 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 11:34:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.38] has joined #lisp 11:34:46 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 11:42:14 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok022039.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:16 I got how the signle stepping works, it was emacs that didn't display the debugger restarts buffer together with the repl window. Is there a way to make it handier with some elisp code? 11:47:50 s/the repl window/the slime source form buffer/ 11:48:18 leo2007 annotated #98944 "ccl-init.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98944#1 11:49:24 leo2007: wank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* it should be swank:, perhaps 11:49:37 though it's NIL by default 11:50:29 that's was a typo 11:50:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wgruklrcvdzpgklv] has left #lisp 11:51:00 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-58-72.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:56 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-231.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:52:54 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-58-72.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:54 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 11:54:41 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:29 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:01:17 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 12:02:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:07 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:03:28 -!- nh_ is now known as nha 12:03:58 -!- nha is now known as Guest2306 12:05:05 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:05:42 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-121.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:21 nurv: I put Linj sources here: http://github.com/ks/linj 12:09:27 p_l: http://github.com/ks/linj 12:09:28 -!- Guest2306 is now known as nha 12:09:40 stassats: cheers, I now remote that line from .ccl-init.lisp 12:09:44 compiles on latest SBCL 12:10:03 leo2007: but why don't you want dedicated output? 12:10:30 stassats: but it default to nil, right? 12:10:52 is it better with t? 12:10:52 it is 12:11:05 yes 12:11:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:24 maybe slime should default to t, no? 12:11:28 I will use t then 12:13:43 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:14:22 bojovs [~bojovs@p3111-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:14:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:32 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@p3111-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:14:40 bojovs [~bojovs@p3111-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:14:49 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@p3111-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:15:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 12:21:58 bandU [~kvirc@2001:0:53aa:64c:1cdd:672e:9cc5:fe3f] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 -!- bandU [~kvirc@2001:0:53aa:64c:1cdd:672e:9cc5:fe3f] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:22:18 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: lnostdal] 12:22:20 bandU [~kvirc@2001:0:53aa:64c:1cdd:672e:9cc5:fe3f] has joined #lisp 12:22:52 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet5372.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 12:24:19 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 12:24:28 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:32 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:14 Stattrav: if i set dedicated stream to t, ccl fail to connect 12:26:21 s/fail/fails/ 12:26:38 when running through ssh tunnel. 12:27:42 you need to set swank:*dedicated-output-stream-port* then 12:27:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:28:12 to something which will be forwarded 12:28:32 i see 12:31:09 now connected. 12:33:28 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has 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[~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:58:05 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 16:01:09 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:02:15 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:03:18 somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:03:42 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-132-157.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:03 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vlbwcprxejqlryac] has left #lisp 16:05:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 i am puzzled .... i did (defclass a ()...) (defmethod foo ((obj a)) ...) (defmethod b (a) ...) -- now i would like to write (defmethod foo ((obj b)) (foo (coerce obj 'b)) ...) in order to call foo of class a on the a-parts of b - which fails and i end up in an infinit-loop - what is the keyword i really should look up in clhs? 16:13:20 -!- syskopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:14 mapreduce [~ricky@varenka.cime.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:32 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.87.201] has quit [] 16:16:06 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:13 trebor_dki: (defmethod foo ((obj b)) (call-next-method)) 16:16:29 but if you're so confused, read something on CLOS 16:16:53 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-030-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:17:12 specbot is finally here, and minion is absent? oh well 16:18:32 What? No minion? 16:18:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:47 stassats: thanks, i knew there was sth like this. i am sitting here coding with very little sleep. deadline is coming ... 16:19:28 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:42 minion: How are you doing? 16:19:42 it's going quite fine today 16:19:48 stassats: Okay, minion is back. 16:20:14 minion: Keene? 16:20:15 Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 16:21:05 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslan254.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:25:04 now, that it is in my code-base i will find it forever ;) (link to 7.6.6.1.2 added ;) 16:27:17 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 16:27:27 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 16:27:42 the bad thing is, that all the work of this weekend will end up in one or two 20 sec animations - but i hope it will be worth it (growing/percolating spherulites within a stress-field) 16:28:33 "spherulites"? 16:30:37 zoe__ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 -!- zoe__ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:58 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:31:27 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherulite_(polymer_physics) 16:32:13 sacamano` [~user@122.174.73.246] has joined #lisp 16:32:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:07 -!- Blkt [~user@a83-132-163-45.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:33:35 Neat. 16:34:02 -!- sacamano_m82 [~user@122.174.165.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:20 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:38:06 -!- sacamano` [~user@122.174.73.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:45 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:00 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:53 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:41:40 -!- laynor [~user@109.78.36.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:02 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:45:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:15 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:49:27 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:50:57 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:51:50 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@maf0736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:04 marioxcc [~user@200.92.174.56] has joined #lisp 17:00:57 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:04:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.81] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@m880736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:02 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-118-226.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:10:16 would there be a reason why a (break) does not happen when it is in a function that is called with apply? 17:10:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:35 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@maf0736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:59 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:00 Harag: Stale literal function reference? 17:11:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hhhcwwbeivbfruzi] has joined #lisp 17:12:04 nyef: dont know i closed emacs and recompiled 17:12:49 let me delete the fasl's and try again 17:13:28 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-118-226.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 17:14:35 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-118-226.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:14:54 oops wrong button 17:16:42 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 17:17:36 heh. Finally managed to track down Linj source code. 17:17:47 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:12 nyef: thanx that was it 17:19:36 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:18 HG` [~HG@85.8.91.154] has joined #lisp 17:24:25 can I print a hash table and read it back in? 17:24:58 wakeup^: not as easily as, say, a list 17:25:05 If you do a little work. 17:25:16 But you could certainly arrange to do so. 17:25:44 I just want to save a "database", and I think I want to use hashtables to store stuff 17:25:49 You could look at print-object and load-form, probably. 17:25:56 minion: cl-store? 17:25:57 cl-store: cl-store is an asdf-installable portable library for serializing and deserializing Common Lisp objects to and from streams. http://www.cliki.net/cl-store 17:25:58 Yay for #.(let ((table (make-hash-table ...))) (setf (gethash ...) ...) ... table) 17:26:18 wakeup: Would you like to save it in a fasl? 17:26:24 don't forget the trick with fasl :D 17:26:36 I dont care how its saved 17:26:50 the simpler the better 17:26:50 wakeup^: so you just want it to persist? 17:26:54 yes 17:28:48 wakeup^: for that kind of thing I often just write out a file full of lists. 17:29:01 Then read them in and put them back into whatever in-memory structure I like. 17:29:53 -!- eya [irc2gowebc@150.140.212.99] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 17:30:14 sounds reasonable 17:30:26 Has the advantage that you can append to the file easily. 17:30:50 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@m8c0736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:21 and it's portable, and I expect it to be faster than fasls, at least on SBCL 17:32:12 leoncamel_erc [~user@58-3-139-121.ppp.bbiq.jp] has joined #lisp 17:32:50 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:37 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@m880736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:15 -!- leoncamel_erc [~user@58-3-139-121.ppp.bbiq.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 17:34:56 stassats: why faster than fasls? 17:36:13 btw, I just tested, and (defvar h2 #.h) written into a file, then compiled with the image that contains 'h makes a nice, loadable fasl with 'h2 being a copy of 'h 17:36:46 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@m8c0736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:32 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@64.235.198.242] has quit [Quit: humhum] 17:42:32 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.72.80] has joined #lisp 17:43:45 p_l: because they are slow? 17:43:46 are there any subversion bindings for CL out there? 17:44:10 (run-program "svn") 17:44:51 stassats: not good enough. i am looking for libsvn bindings 17:45:43 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:47 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f664a42-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:48:45 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:48:51 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:02 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:36 maden [~maden@dsl-151-232.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 17:52:26 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 17:55:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:57:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hhhcwwbeivbfruzi] has left #lisp 18:03:59 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:27 Oh man, ELS was exhausting. 18:07:54 Are we going to start seeing people blogging about it now? 18:08:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:39 aatifh [~atif@122.169.87.39] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 Maybe. :) 18:10:47 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:10 -!- iPac [~bubble@84.19.169.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:25 (dolist ((a b) list) body) or (dolist ('(a b) list) body)? 18:11:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:48 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has joined #lisp 18:12:05 wakeup^: neither 18:12:26 (dolist (elem list) body) 18:12:43 if you're looking to take apart the elements, put a destructuring-bind in the body 18:12:51 Or use LOOP instead. 18:13:14 hmm k 18:13:27 I thought I remembered it worked like that 18:15:49 iPac [~bubble@84.19.169.162] has joined #lisp 18:17:26 destructuring-bind confuses me^^ 18:20:05 wakeup pasted "hash to list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98966 18:20:11 check this out :> 18:21:45 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082CDE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:27 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082FD19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:31:21 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:31:42 looks reasonable 18:31:54 some would rather rewrite the whole thing with LOOP 18:31:58 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:20 btw, the type of list you're constructing is called an alist 18:32:34 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:35:24 alist? 18:36:10 wakeup^: it's like a 'hash' you have a key and a value. 18:36:17 For use with ASSOC. 18:40:46 quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has joined #lisp 18:44:07 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:55 "association list" 18:47:09 makes sense :) 18:48:44 -!- iPac [~bubble@84.19.169.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:01 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:51 iPac [~bubble@84.19.169.162] has joined #lisp 18:55:32 nurv [nurv@62.32.144.157] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 Hi. 18:55:49 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:16 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-53-56.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Gone for the rest of the day, and at least a good chunk of tomorrow.] 19:01:44 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75595e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:04 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-120-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:07:09 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:18 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has left #lisp 19:09:12 md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 19:09:15 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:15 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:32 francogrex [~user@91.177.58.58] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 Hi all 19:12:12 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 19:12:12 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:14:02 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:18:39 hello francogrex 19:18:48 hello nurv 19:21:22 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:21:23 anything new or exciting? 19:24:25 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-78-9.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:49 francogrex: yes. see channel topic 19:25:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:16 -!- easyE [3S88D4ma9m@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:52 yay, ccl 1.5! 19:30:56 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f664a42-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:37 jthing [~jthing@163.200.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:32:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:50 ok good 19:38:18 tantann [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 19:39:16 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0250-168-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:31 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 19:46:24 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.37] has joined #lisp 19:46:36 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.58.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:47:57 -!- somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:00 roman [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 19:50:17 -!- roman is now known as Guest67796 19:50:25 hi, would someone have a hint why i keep getting "XXX already names an ordinary function or a macro" when redefining a method ? 19:50:49 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.221] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:55 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 19:51:32 i never defun or defmacro these symbols, only defgeneric / defmethod and it happens every time i redefine a method 19:51:49 billitch: Because XXX already names an ordinary function or macro. 19:52:01 Oh. That's different. 19:52:04 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 rtoym: yes but i never defined this function or macro 19:52:33 What implementation? 19:53:04 billitch: paste an example. 19:53:15 sbcl 1.0.29.11.debian 19:53:20 i'll try with latest 19:55:26 -!- Guest67796 [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:27 roman_ [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 20:01:08 *c|mell* has just made a crummy facebook app in lisp http://apps.facebook.com/jfappcanvas/ -- solve small polynomial equations for fun 20:01:21 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@ma80736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:38 but it did not always show this behaviour, could this be due to an optimization declaim ? 20:02:00 billitch, it does that if you are tracing or profiling the functions iirc 20:03:02 c|mell: i am actually profiling, will test without 20:04:32 c|mell: since MSI seems so interested in performance, do you know if they've considered using PAPI instead of sb-sprof? 20:05:06 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@ma10736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:12 bgs000 [znc@57o9.org] has joined #lisp 20:07:12 -!- bgs000 [znc@57o9.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:07:18 pkhuong, their interest in performance is mostly theoretical i think -- they were still using 32 bit allegro while i was there ;) 20:07:21 what is papi? 20:07:43 a wrapper around various performance counter kernel modules and what not. 20:08:14 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@ma80736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:15 Linux finally got a native one in 2.6.31; we don't even have to run a patched kernel anymore 20:08:34 i was really interested in getting the perfmon stuff by ingo molnar to do real profiling 20:09:11 My interest is actually theoretical for now: I want to play with compressed sensing (: 20:09:40 sbcl's function profiler hooked up to pagefaults/cache miss counts/instructions executed/etc. would be really interesting 20:09:48 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:08 the "cycle" counter it uses actually is just a timer, it doesn't give you much idea of what's happening 20:10:13 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:34 right. TLB misses can be surprisingly important :\ 20:12:09 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 hitting the the COW "mark this page modified" thing is a hidden cost of SBCL's garbage collection as well 20:12:26 yup. 20:12:56 developers might have a hidden bias against large mutable pointer-ful data sets. 20:13:11 pkhuong: do I remember correctly that you had thoughts or a prototype mark/sweep collector for sbcl? 20:14:32 -!- bitflip`` [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:41 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:18:25 Krystof: right. 20:18:35 I have a prototype. 20:19:11 it came up at ELS2010 20:19:27 multiple times, apparently. 20:20:34 c|mell: disabling profiling removes the warning falling into debugger, thanks a lot ! 20:20:52 is there a way to fix this ? i like profiling... 20:20:55 pkhuong: is it available anywhere? 20:21:26 billitch: the deterministic profiler works by replacing function references with book-keeping wrappers. 20:21:44 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@ma10736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:49 billitch -- you can catch the condition and continue on it, or unprofile the methods before redefining them, etc. 20:21:54 You might want to use the statistical profiler instead, which is also much less likely to introduce noise in the measurements. 20:22:45 -!- roman_ [~roman@bras-4-ge-62.122.200.230.utm.if.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:07 luis: it's really a hack for people who need large, mutable, pointer-ful data sets. Not integrated with standard allocation, and completely *destroys* the generational scheme. 20:23:57 the commercial lisps have multiple zones which varying degrees of interference from the normal gc 20:24:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-113-183.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:22 I'm strongly of the opinion that there is no way to make a good general purpose GC, and having the option to have different collection behaviours is very useful 20:25:27 c|mell: I think the idea was the same. You get a chunk of foreign address space somehow, and specify whether you want to know when there are no more pointers to the head of the range, or anywhere in the range, and whether you want pointers to be fixed up as if it was the normal heap, or as if everything was a word of type T. 20:25:53 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:36 that would be handy 20:26:42 But, without some cooperation for the write barrier, generation basically stop working as soon as you have one large chunk with fixed-up pointers. 20:27:18 And cooperation for the barrier isn't fun when we rely on mprotect for that; you don't want to mprotect arbitrary addresses. 20:27:46 Yes, you need to restrict them from referring back to generational zones 20:28:11 luis: that would be . 20:29:01 I would like to be able to allocate an object into a collectable zone that is unmovable 20:29:08 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:16 I was thinking of a GC with many zones of different sizes and possibly different allocation schemas (including even nyef's proposed alloc/free one) 20:32:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:40 *c|mell* was thinking of something more erlangy, with small zones that cannot refer outside themselves . . . 20:32:54 c|mell: and how do you test for that? 20:33:10 (when, what happens on failure, etc?) 20:33:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:33:58 really, the nice bit is that the values are immutable. 20:34:40 you wouldn't be able to get a pointer outside your zone or the core frozen image 20:35:05 c|mell: the alloc/free schema was slightly similar - you could add a special form to enforce allocation in such zone and use a macro like 'with-alloc/free-zone to create it, then destroy it (without checking for links from outside) on exit 20:35:37 p_l: yeah, dynamic-scoped allocation pool, with statically-scoped decision whether to alloc in the pool or not. 20:35:40 minion: have you seen nmh? 20:35:41 i haven't 20:35:54 my idea would be almost putting threads in separate processes 20:36:15 c|mell: etos got better performance with a shared heap. 20:36:29 so that when you want to collect one thread's zone you don't need to check other zones at all 20:37:53 pkhuong, http://www.erlang.se/workshop/feeley.ps <-- your supervisor? 20:38:23 I was also thinking of an easy way to tweak GC for given part of the code, like (with-new-generation :size :gc-on-exit t ) 20:39:03 i think that sbcl generally does really well by default 20:39:43 p_l, the allegro system has loads of things like that which provide tweakability but not good performance 20:39:52 c|mell: yeah, but some of those tweaks could allow a nicer way to do some of the GC without stopping other threads. 20:39:54 c|mell: I'm in operations research; is my supervisor (: Implementing languages is just a hobby (that also has interesting problems from an OR PoV). 20:40:44 well the erlang/etos experience is not conclusive imo 20:40:57 sometimes your application benefits from one approach, sometimes from the other 20:41:00 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 another nice thing would be to explicitly pin allocated objects.... 20:42:03 p_l, yes that's related to what i was talking about, with allocating objects into a zone where they could be collected but not moved 20:42:14 p_l: if you're going to pass to foreign code, you also want to disable the write protection and ... 20:42:30 hence GC-aware foreign allocation. 20:42:53 an interesting thing would be trying to override malloc() family of calls... xD 20:43:00 http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/ftype.htm#allocation-types-1 does it -- see :foreign-static-gc 20:43:37 I also considered looking into Autozone, but I couldn't compile it on linux, at least not for now 20:44:12 it would, however, work on OSX and be definitely a boon on that platform (in my opinion, at least) 20:45:22 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.72.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:04 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:47:26 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:47:36 (it also has parallel collection) 20:47:59 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:48:25 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 p_l: we have different design goals for a GC and allocator than obj-c, or most other scripting languages. 20:49:11 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:08 the gc is very tightly tied into object representation and general runtime (especially if you're trying to do concurrent things) -- it's not really possible to swap in and out 20:50:16 pkhuong: I know, but even if not using it, interaction with it would be interesting. 20:50:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:22 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:54:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-233.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:05 -!- md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:21 -!- marioxcc is now known as Sorancio 21:00:34 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:01:09 -!- Sorancio is now known as marioxcc 21:01:57 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:20 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-83-3.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-83-3.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:03:51 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:08 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-87-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:08:53 *_3b* wonders whether slime or sbcl is responsible for the output of slime autodoc for WRITE 21:09:39 <_3b> well, i guess at least it highlights something if i manage to remember the name of the keyword correctly :p 21:10:04 _3b: tab after a colon? 21:10:35 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-46-195.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:10:51 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.204.33] has left #lisp 21:11:00 <_3b> pkhuong: yeah, looks like that works, still would be nice to have something useful in the autodoc though, if i'm going to use up 9 lines for it :) 21:12:27 <_3b> can WRITE be told not to put "" around strings when it writes them? 21:12:56 *_3b* should have just used FORMAT in the first place 21:13:52 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:17:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:04 -!- coyo is now known as coyO 21:23:28 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-182-153.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:50 iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:08 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:26:46 -!- iPac [~bubble@84.19.169.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:45 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:20 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:14 easyE [GBEG21THOY@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:58 pkhuong: could you tell me more about the statistical profiler ? 21:37:02 billitch: . 21:37:30 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:42 thanks 21:38:55 also does it have any interest to profile non-optimized code ? 21:40:37 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-71-107.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:52 billitch: sure, to know where to pay attention. 21:40:56 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-118-226.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 21:41:22 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:50 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 21:41:56 I think sb-sprof is interested in profiling whatever code you give it 21:41:56 You'll then want to explore algorithmic/data structure-level rewrites, and micro-optimisations only once you've turned the speed optimisation knob to 3. 21:42:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42:40 Guthur: I read that as asking whether it's any use to profile unoptimised code. 21:43:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:43:15 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 21:43:17 Ya, that probably was the meaning, sorry bad attempt at humour 21:45:28 ha ha 21:45:41 thanks anyway =) 21:47:23 i like uncluttered code too, optimization has a readability trade-off, even in lisp i guess. macros help a lot of course though 21:48:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:47 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@ma20736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:03 -!- iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA5787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:12 -!- pix4_ [~pixel@p4FC5591D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 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