00:00:00 <_6502_> 2am... sleeptime for me nite guys 00:00:07 sigh. still: Symbol "ASDF-VERSION" not found in the ASDF package. 00:00:11 <_6502_> and thanx a lot for hunchentoot 00:01:01 -!- _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-78-12-224-87.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+ssfe] 00:01:15 hmmm... "Abandon all hope who enters here..." 00:01:19 sounds promising 00:01:48 *DanC* wonders how to get sbcl to tell me what version is running 00:02:01 should say in the init banner DanC 00:02:04 (lisp-implementation-version) ? 00:02:22 the init banner flew away 00:02:37 CL-USER> (lisp-implementation-version) 00:02:37 "1.0.38" 00:02:40 you can also just do the usual - for most programs anyway - `sbcl --version` at a terminal prompt 00:02:41 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-144-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 the terminal prompt query wouldn't necessarily tell me what's running in slime 00:03:39 so I'm running sbcl 1.0.38, which the web site is newest, and yet my asdf version is still old 00:03:52 huh 00:03:53 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:55 *DanC* whimpers 00:04:00 and the old sbcl is gone? 00:04:02 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:12 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:21 I think so; at least: it's not running, and: 00:04:23 $ apt-cache policy sbcl 00:04:23 sbcl: 00:04:23 Installed: (none) 00:04:24 I'm really lagging behind... I'm on 1.0.29.11 00:04:27 *p_l* is looking through the code DanC tries to run 00:05:07 DanC: sbcl does not track asdf development tightly. 00:05:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:15 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:06:19 who promised me a fresh sbcl would fix my asdf problems? ah... it wasn't quite that strong: 00:06:21 DanC: Just get the latest SBCL from www.sbcl.org and your problems with asdf are likely to lessen, even just grab the binary if you want. 00:06:48 key words are 'likely' and 'lessen' 00:06:50 I missed the earlier context. What's the trouble? 00:07:49 I'm trying to run somebody's code (http://svn.neurocommons.org/svn/trunk/sharednames/gleaner/src/ ). I learned lisp, a long time ago, but I'm new to clbuild, slime, and asdf 00:08:42 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:48 I thought I had sbcl, slime, and clbuild conquered, but discussion here suggested that in order to solve my asdf woes, I should backtrack on sbcl and slime 00:08:53 darwin-dlshim.c has yet to go away... 00:09:25 Maybe its clbuild's fault, just a guess 00:09:25 hefner: mind you I have no idea why I have europe on highlight, but I can tell you that at least here in the northern part of it, the climate would make it habitable for vampires about 6 months a year due to a no-sun thing 00:09:39 so now I have fresh installs of sbcl from sbcl.org , clbuild from common-lisp.net and slime via clbuild 00:09:44 -!- \dev\random [~yum@wikimedia/fail] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:54 DanC: what's the actual problem? 00:10:31 I can't run/require/load sn.asd 00:10:34 *pinterface* suspects DanC is trying to load a system using the newish #'load-system with an ASDF that only supports #'oos. 00:10:57 *Xach* reads logs 00:11:00 I'm happy to use oos ; should that work? 00:11:06 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:17 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:28 undefined function: OOS 00:12:08 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :sn) 00:12:26 something just made me very happy and I need somewhere to say it so 00:12:32 I found out I randomly have the entire next week off work 00:12:33 ! 00:12:40 component "sn" not found 00:12:49 same thing I get from (asdf:load-system :sn) 00:13:04 DanC: that means that sn.asd is not in one of the paths in asdf:*central-registry* 00:13:13 (push "/path/to/sn" asdf:*central-registry*) 00:13:23 Guthur: not quite. trailing slash is important. 00:13:31 marioxcc [~user@200.77.63.46] has joined #lisp 00:13:32 seriously? it won't find it in . ? 00:13:36 Xach: indeed 00:13:43 Nice catch 00:13:55 DanC: it usually will, if you start sbcl from that directory or change *default-pathname-defaults* to it. 00:14:31 DanC: it looks like that project has a lot of dependencies. even if you get the paths right, you'll need to make sure you have a lot of additional stuff for it to load. 00:14:57 *Xach* hasn't heard of "ghedge" before 00:14:58 I think I wrestled the dependencies to the ground (with clbuild) 00:15:20 DanC: did you stat sbcl from the directory that has sn.asd? 00:15:31 start, rather 00:16:09 Okay, that's all my current PPC fixes checked in. 00:16:19 no, I don't think so; I started it from .emacs doing (slime) which seems to call `clbuild lisp` which sets the cwd to... who knows what 00:16:45 DanC: you can use ,cd in slime to change to the same directory as sn.asd 00:17:01 DanC: then the (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'sn) will probably complain at a later point. 00:17:07 (that would indicate progress) 00:17:13 Can you give it a try? 00:17:22 felgercarb... even after (push "/home/connolly/nc/sharednames/gleaner/src" asdf:*central-registry*) I still lose with "component "sn" not found". am I missing a #P ? 00:17:38 DanC: it must have a trailing slash. 00:17:53 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:18:07 aha! ,cd worked 00:19:05 frick and frack! component :TRIVIAL-GRAY-STREAMS not found, required by 00:19:06 # 00:19:29 DanC: yes, there are a lot of things to track down. 00:20:28 DanC: I'm not familiar enough with clbuild to know what to suggest to get it to do most of the work for you, sorry. 00:20:51 *DanC* does 'clbuild cxml' over again, supposing it's necessary since replacing sbcl 00:22:20 DanC: Does the clbuild directory have systems/trivial-gray-streams.asd? 00:22:54 it probably didn't 00:23:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:23:44 wierd... it compiled a whole bunch of stuff, which suggested that all the dependencies were satisfied... but then crapped out with: package "CHTML" not found 00:24:04 well... I think I've learned how to play the lisp version of dependency whack-a-mole... 00:24:22 DanC: hmm, are you working from the directions in README? 00:24:29 ew... clbuild doesn't know about CHTML either 00:24:47 roughly, yes, Xach; there aren't exact step-by-step directions 00:25:06 [[ 00:25:07 The system depends on the usual rats nest of supporting 00:25:07 libraries (e.g. cl-ppcre, drakma, clxml, cl-who, and others). 00:25:07 ]] 00:25:38 I presume "and others" is bounded by the list in sn.asd (and their dependencies) 00:27:30 -!- easyE [dIkc8Je7iL@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:28:50 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-247.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:30:19 *Xach* gets to hacking on his usenet search 00:33:00 DanC, having trouble with lisp or asdf ? 00:33:16 does ubuntu have common-lisp-controller, like debian? 00:33:41 I'm now past all that and wrestling with chtml 00:33:54 I grabbed sbcl from sbcl.org 00:34:06 full saga available above 00:36:07 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:37:14 -!- chicago_andy [~user@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:56 -!- neorab [~neorab@67-60-35-163.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:09 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:11 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:54 loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 00:41:28 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:42:13 whacked the mole for closure-html, but it popped up again: 00:42:15 ; package "HUNCHENTOOT" not found 00:43:18 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot has info about grabbing that. 00:43:34 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:02 Or `clbuild install hunchentoot` 00:46:52 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:47:38 darcs failed: Not a repository: http://common-lisp.net/project/lift (Failed to download URL http://common-lisp.net/project/lift/_darcs/inventory: HTTP response code said error) 00:48:07 *DanC* hopes folks don't mind my use of this channel to take notes 00:48:17 -!- loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:42 that recently changed from darcs to git. someone mentioned it earlier. 00:48:52 so I see from http://common-lisp.net/project/lift/#downloads 00:49:44 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50:00 *pinterface* is a bit surprised the darcs version isn't still around. 00:50:28 *DanC* wonders if the stuff that powers http://www.cl-user.net/asp/libs/Hunchentoot also powers clbuild's projects file 00:51:24 hard work by humans? (: 00:52:13 *pinterface* sometimes wishes cl-user.net had a machine-friendly API. 00:52:17 loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 00:52:27 yeah 00:52:38 clbuild has a program that records the useful dependencies 00:53:09 *DanC* is getting dizzy... 00:53:12 component :TRIVIAL-BACKTRACE not found, required by 00:53:12 # 00:54:06 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:44 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:49 yeah, the lisp world soemtimes moves faster than clbuild's dependencies file can keep up 00:56:01 clbuild install trivial-backtrace and you should be set 00:56:25 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:56:45 And to think how much harder this was /before/ clbuild! 00:57:10 yeah (: 00:57:11 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:57:39 sure... like python before pypi and perl before cpan etc. 00:57:49 and linux before apt 00:58:11 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:23 victory is MINE! 00:58:25 ; /home/connolly/nc/sharednames/gleaner/src/foo.fasl written 00:58:25 ; compilation finished in 0:00:00.246 00:58:32 chicago_andy [~user@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:40 Congrats DanC 00:58:47 Now you just have to figure out what to do with it. :) 00:58:53 exactly :-/ 00:58:58 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:08 but... meanwhile... thanks for the help, everybody 00:59:08 After that build, anything after this will seem like a piece of cake 00:59:23 *DanC* should renew his freenode donation 00:59:24 um, no it won't (: 00:59:41 but at least now you can concentrate on the interesting stuff (: 01:00:19 I cut my teeth porting C stuff to the Convex supercomputer in 1990. this stuff is a piece of cake compared to porting C code in the pre-ansi-C era 01:01:24 *Xach* ponders searchable archives for joe marshall and rob warnock 01:01:29 I bet 01:01:37 Xach: sounds good 01:01:48 Xach: you are just building up the inverse of a killfile 01:02:09 (and I like that) 01:02:22 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 01:02:37 *DanC* whimpers... The function REPORT-CHANGES-IN-THIRD-PARTY-DATA is undefined. 01:02:46 wrong package or something? 01:02:59 DanC: likely. 01:03:07 antifuchs: heh, i never thought about it like that. 01:03:09 how do I get to the sn package? 01:03:21 DanC: you can use a package prefix like (sn:report-... ) 01:03:33 DanC: you can use (in-package :sn) to work within that package 01:03:44 DanC: you can define your own package and :use sn 01:03:45 the latter sounds more consistent with the instructions: "It assumes you have the lisp code loaded, and 01:03:46 that you're in the SN package. 01:03:46 " 01:03:58 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:59 proqesi [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:04:11 -!- loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:33 antifuchs: i'm a bit psyched because i can do most of the work quickly enough from on-disk datastructures, so i can picture doing more than just web interfaces for searching. 01:05:42 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 sweet. are you thinking about content analysis? 01:05:56 cll-grep -a kmp define-condition -clos 01:05:59 favourite topics and stuff? 01:06:02 oooooh 01:06:05 VERY YES 01:06:36 *Xach* will keep you posted 01:06:41 -!- Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:06:51 great (-: 01:07:33 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.23.245] has quit [] 01:07:41 the slowest part is loading a list of 50,000 words from a text file into a hash table. actually doing the search is a zillion times faster. 01:08:00 well, maybe not a zillion, but a couple orders of magnitude. 01:08:44 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-102-63.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:49 maybe a liberal application of non-hashtable data structures... (: 01:09:09 *p_l* is reminded of the great trick in hashtable loading: FASL of a file containing (defparameter hashtable-from-file #.*hashtable*) ;-) 01:09:41 p_l: hmm, that's a really excellent thought. i'll give that a try. 01:10:49 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-66-95.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11:00 Xach: someone mentioned it ages ago as "poor man's serialization" 01:11:04 hmm, can you actually dump that? 01:11:50 antifuchs: given my recent mishaps with literals, I suspect it works. Haven't tried it yet, since I didn't need it. 01:12:00 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host86-145-186-155.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:51 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:03 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:15:57 (I managed to get function-local storage...) 01:16:36 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.43] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:17:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:14 wait, so the hash table is created during compile or load for that meathod p_l? 01:18:28 or do I misunderstand? 01:18:44 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:20:06 chicago_andy: the hashtable gets created during compile time then rebuilt from implementation-specific form during load-time 01:20:16 how fast it is depends on implementation. 01:21:39 huh 01:21:40 neat 01:22:28 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:34 it's kind of a hack to skip various phases of building the hashtable from source 01:23:10 I can dig it 01:23:30 in some implementations, the resulting loading (especially if you're using the hashtable as read-only source) might be equivalent to mmap() 01:24:36 though I guess it's better to do it like #.(build-hashtable-from-source-function) :) 01:25:13 huh 01:25:19 I should give that a whirl 01:25:56 that may help with importing large datasets 01:26:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:32 well, for larger dataset I'd use external storage 01:27:17 under slime, when there's an error and it goes into sldb, I don't see a source window. I'm used to emacs debuggers showing the source corresponding to the error. 01:27:19 hash tables all the way down 01:27:27 am I spoiled? should I expect SLDB to do this? 01:28:00 meta-. 01:28:03 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:28:14 do you know about meta-. in slime DanC? 01:28:22 sorta 01:28:29 it prompts for a function name 01:28:32 DanC: highlight one of the stack frames and hit v. 01:28:42 ah. that's more like it. 01:29:16 minion: slime.mov? 01:29:16 slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 01:29:33 is that the 55min video? 01:29:41 Awesome. cl-pdf's files don't agree on line-endings, so my patchfile has a mixure of CRLFs and LFs. 01:30:46 DanC: yeah, but you can go around skipping quite a bit 01:31:49 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:33 quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has joined #lisp 01:33:47 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:56 ooh... and t shows me all the frame details. spif 01:34:24 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:34:41 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:34:55 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:34 this is starting to feel more like the lisp hacking I did years ago... on a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer 01:36:33 I heard ACL has very good debugger, but unfortunately, the only commercial lisp in my price range is Corman 01:37:51 There's always the personal editions. 01:38:12 pinterface: I tried LispWorks' one, but lately it has issues starting up :) 01:39:19 (but I fixed it now - it was one of those "32bit app on 64bit system" things) 01:40:03 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.170.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:36 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:40:53 I'd love to have hardware recent enough for that to be a potential issue. :) 01:41:41 ... hmm.... I'm not sure if I set it that way myself, but for some reason my LW 5.1 PE uses LispMachine font xD 01:43:31 thirtysevenbanan [~david@cpe-76-88-39-22.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:57 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 01:44:09 -!- thirtysevenbanan [~david@cpe-76-88-39-22.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:44:36 pinterface, you almost can't help getting 64 bits these days. I guess it's been a while since you got a computer? 01:46:24 Quite so. 01:46:53 it seems xml-rpc has lost its popularity, right? 01:46:53 Is it possible to implement defsubst (or inline functions spelled a different way) without compiler support aside from compiler-macros, and without symbol-macrolet? 01:46:59 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:29 You could just generate a compiler macro that would run sublis on the original form to replace the names of the macro parameters with calling parameters, but that sounds risky. 01:48:39 leo2007: not much, though json-encoded REST apis are popular nowaday because of how easy it is to use them from JS 01:49:04 Actually, the whole idea is dumb. Nevermind. You run into exactly the same problem that you with C macros: forms are evaluated more than once. 01:50:20 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:51:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:33 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 01:54:20 p_l: do you know of a paste bin service that provides json api? 01:57:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:15 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-247.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:58:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:58:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:19 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:00:27 leo2007: not really, but that's probably because I never looked for one. 02:02:27 leo2007: I know of one with an xml-rpc API, would that suffice? 02:02:39 lisppaste? 02:03:00 Spot on. 02:04:08 I quite like lisppaste ;) 02:05:05 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:05:17 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:19 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.174] has joined #lisp 02:07:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:41 leo2007: Actually, if lisppaste doesn't already have a json api then it could possibly be hacked in, especially since it doesn't require a separate listener. 02:12:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8545.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:20 benny [~benny@i577A8D6E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:13:25 nyef: are you the maintainer of lisppaste? 02:15:56 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:39 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:19:55 -!- eslick [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:20:12 You know what might be useful.. detaching from a slime session, without killing it. 02:20:25 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:20:48 slime-disconnect? 02:20:55 shemale_magic [~gav@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:00 http://cjslesbianxxx.com/watch.asp?action=click&id=13279 02:21:07 http://cjslesbianxxx.com/watch.asp?action=click&id=14295 02:21:14 adeht, no, I want the repl with the possibly evaluating form to stay 02:21:19 http://cjslesbianxxx.com/watch.asp?action=click&id=7897 02:21:39 http://cjslesbianxxx.com/watch.asp?action=click&id=359 02:21:42 lol 02:21:43 yeah!! 02:21:45 lol 02:22:24 I think that boobs are powerful abstractions! 02:24:12 deepfire: you want to detach and don't want to detach at the same time? 02:24:17 adeht, like start emacs, connect to swank, run a long-term evaluation, quit emacs with automatic slime-detach (ala screen auto-detach when tty goes poof), and have the form continue evaluation 02:24:41 stassats`, kinda 02:24:53 well, slime-disconnect does that 02:25:23 start swank, with :dont-close t, connect to it, disconnect, repeat 02:26:05 Hmm, I was under impression that when you start a long computation and slime-disconnect, the computation is terminated 02:26:15 it isn't? 02:26:50 *p_l* doesn't see a reason for 02:27:05 leo2007: I occasionally maintain lisppaste. 02:27:14 even if it does, you can always start a separate thread 02:27:25 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:55 granted, it doesn't have look and feel of screen 02:27:55 *p_l* notes that ASDF2 gets along quite well with LispWorks... 02:28:22 stassats`, I'd have to remember what the SBCL's incantations are for thread spawning, no? 02:28:51 deepfire: (sb-thread:create-thread #'initial-function :name "whatever") 02:28:57 deepfire: i hadn't thought of it, that's the hardest thing to remember! 02:28:57 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:21 And then, what if I wanted to see the result of the evaluation, I'd have to wrap the form with defparameter.. 02:29:48 IOW this is where a potential slime improvement lies, IMHO. 02:29:57 patches are welcome 02:30:11 sure, I hope suggestions are as welcome 02:30:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:30:38 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:31:06 maden_ [~maden@dsl-145-111.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:31:18 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 02:31:26 i don't see an easy way to implement it right away 02:32:05 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:33:01 and (swank-backend:spawn #'long-running-function :name "long running function"), if you don't want to remember sbcl's 02:33:34 yeah, makes sense 02:35:03 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-145-214.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:01 pers [~user@7.sub-75-231-8.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:22 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:41:19 -!- shemale_magic [~gav@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:44:01 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:52:59 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:54:27 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-28-35.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:55 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:11 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:06:28 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 03:06:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:12:37 -!- mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:50 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:16 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:41 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:19 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 03:20:47 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:22:00 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-145-111.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:28 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-28-35.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:29 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:03 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-144-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:34:48 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:35:47 -!- proqesi [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:40:38 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:02 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:52:37 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:32 eslick [~eslick@70-36-140-179.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:30 Does any know if the ASDF patch (http://www.lichteblau.com/blubba/shortcut/) is still relevant for SBCL on cygwin, in the context of clbuild? 03:59:52 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:04 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:04:19 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:38 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:50 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:49 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:07:42 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:07:57 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:32 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:12:21 -!- pers [~user@7.sub-75-231-8.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 04:13:08 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.29] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:14:13 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 04:14:45 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:15:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:17:36 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:38 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:58 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 04:25:00 engteacher [~csafdsafa@189.220.21.241.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 04:27:56 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:31:16 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:55 kencausey, it hurts my mind 04:35:13 at least some of it is already in ASDF 2. 04:35:30 all of it, it seems. 04:36:10 Fare: I guess that means no? Thanks. I guess the clbuild page needs to be updated. 04:36:44 probably not relevant, but I don't know the context. 04:38:37 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.63.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:10 Fare: bottom of http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ 04:40:45 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:04 well, ASDF 2 is not currently distributed with SBCL. 04:42:15 Hopefully will be starting with SBCL 1.0.39 04:43:11 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:44:19 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:49:51 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:50:42 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:52:16 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 04:52:20 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 04:52:55 good morning 04:53:07 hi 04:53:52 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.145.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:24 -!- kami` is now known as kami 04:54:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:39 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-145-200.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:07 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:40 thirtysevenbanan [~david@cpe-76-88-39-22.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:35 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:53 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:11 hello 05:07:51 that's the problem with the west coast. at 10 pm everybody is asleep except japan. 05:09:40 'hello 05:09:41 i don't know, it's 9am here 05:09:45 0610 here 05:10:14 there're places besides west coast and japan 05:10:15 germany and uk? 05:10:29 hrm... my new computer is loud. to whom should I complain? and evening folks... 05:10:32 Russia here 05:10:43 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:08 slyrus: The US military-industrial complex. 05:11:08 wisconsin here 05:11:09 slyrus: What is loud? The CPU fan? 05:11:20 slyrus, what's load, the fans or the text? 05:11:24 stassats`: they're aren't all that many places between the west coast and japan 05:11:32 Oddity: yeah, I think it's the CPU fan 05:11:35 manic12: fans 05:11:49 what did you get an i7? 05:11:52 i3 05:11:59 ic 05:12:36 I think I have 10 fans in my case. Anywhere where there was a slot for one, I dropped one in. 05:12:52 Put them on a controller and slow them all down, and you get lots of airflow without sounding like a jet engine 05:12:55 does it float? 05:13:13 i need to build myself a new workstation, but i have no excuse 05:13:43 Phoodus: it's a pretty small system... mini itx in an HTPC case 05:13:47 manic12: so that SBCL can compile faster 05:14:15 slyrus: drop it in a tank of oil ;) 05:14:23 sbcl compiles plenty fast on this old xeon 05:14:35 less than ten minutes? 05:15:05 sorry, you're talking about building sbcl, my bad 05:15:43 i thought you meant my application code 05:16:19 that it will do faster too, helps with things like mcclim 05:16:41 my fetish is for video cards and lots of ram personally 05:17:45 too bad you can't run lisp on video cards 05:17:51 yet 05:17:55 so what have I missed in the months i have been away from #lisp? 05:20:10 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:22:33 well, lisp is dying. 05:23:07 that's about all that happened. 05:23:11 could have fooled me 05:23:32 -!- thirtysevenbanan is now known as _37bananas 05:26:42 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-247.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:27:44 i think i'm going to put on a pot of coffee...not ready to go to sleep yet 05:28:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:28:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:31:58 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:33:22 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:34:13 lithper1_, if lisp is dying it didn't start doing so in the last 10 months, it's been more like 20 years 05:34:44 manic12: currently UK 05:34:55 lisp is pathetic, it can't even die 05:35:00 let's hope it keeps dying for another 20 years :) 05:35:15 that made me laugh 05:35:18 stassats`: no, lisp stays so long that death dies first 05:35:37 which makes a quite scary language ;P 05:37:21 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:38:32 Good morning! 05:38:51 Axius [~hi@92.82.66.202] has joined #lisp 05:41:00 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:41:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:35 btw, are there many places/developers still using CMU ? 05:45:42 is Allegro still a dirty word on this channel? 05:46:45 it's still not free, while this is freenode 05:47:27 so is that a yes? 05:47:37 it's not a yes 05:48:13 manic12: I think it isn't, it's just that there's only so many people that have access to anything more than trial 05:48:36 (or, if they have, they have access to *old* versions, like me - ACL 5.0.1 -_-;) 05:49:13 yeah, I dunno what's up with that. I paid for 5.0.1 and have used allegro ever since 05:50:05 manic12: well, my experience with 5.0.1 wasn't too good, but it was related to its CLIM. The thing fails rather badly on modern X.Org 05:50:30 and it doesn't have native threading, either. 05:50:40 (sparc platform) 05:50:43 email bchang@franz and whine 05:51:47 has allegro change any of their licensing structures lately? 05:52:04 technically no 05:52:04 erm, franz I guess 05:52:23 manic12: If I manage to get more people at uni interested in CL, I think I might whine for university to upgrade :) 05:52:40 (especially since the other lisp supplied is CMU) 05:52:50 manic12: it's a shame. We were dealign with them quite a while trying to get something sensible for cloud licensing 05:53:20 what kind of arrangement are you looking for? 05:53:55 the ability to add & remove nodes dynamically, instead of paying 5 figures for every possible node you might run 05:54:22 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:54:32 see, I don't understand, because I bought allegro once and have been provided with it ever since for turning in intelligent bug reports 05:55:20 well, we gave them a number of bug reports too, which were actually fixed, but the bugfix was the only reciprocation we got ;) 05:55:43 think it was also around v7 that we were working with them, so not as early as you were 05:56:19 do you want me to talk to craig about it or have you given up? 05:56:33 nah, SBCL and CCL seem to be working well for us 05:56:52 now that we konw muhc more about the language and environment in general 05:57:04 i'll point that out to him 05:57:34 sure, if you want 05:58:06 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.66.202] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:46 n 05:58:56 i 05:59:05 g 05:59:13 g 05:59:14 l 05:59:18 e 05:59:18 r 05:59:19 s 05:59:22 Someone kick this guy! 05:59:28 what is wrong? 05:59:29 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 05:59:35 I didn-t even complete a sentence 05:59:36 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q engteacher!*@* 05:59:46 Please learn how to spell "didn't". 06:00:12 yes, there are a lot of nigglers here who niggle over every little detail of the spec 06:01:01 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:01:54 hey, here's a joke 06:02:01 what do you call a black guy who flies a plane? 06:02:05 the pilot. 06:02:20 (what are you racist or something?) :) 06:05:20 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 06:05:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:07:18 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 06:07:54 Phoodus: don't forget that traditionally the pilot wears a black uniform 06:08:22 (even if the suit is taken off in cabin, usually - it would be bloody uncomfortable otherwise) 06:08:25 my cat is black 06:10:41 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:11:04 -!- _37bananas [~david@cpe-76-88-39-22.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: _37bananas] 06:11:04 so I have heard two basic complaints 06:11:31 first, people are fed up with the trial edition bs 06:12:04 second, we have no model for cloud licensing 06:12:33 "we" as in you're actually involved in Franz, not just a customer? 06:12:38 what's the current state of CL compilers on android? 06:13:04 -!- DanC [~connolly@70.94.4.81] has left #lisp 06:13:28 I work for Franz, yes 06:13:34 interesting 06:13:50 manic12: another (pseudo?) complaint would be the IDE. They build up this very involved GUI thing, and tell you to run Slime anyway 06:14:06 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:14:16 however, at least the GUI is good at introspecting debug contexts, so not really a complaint there as it does bring benefit for that 06:14:22 sykopomp: we have had requests to port acl to android/arm 06:15:12 manic12: unfortunately, I don't consider ACL to be able to serve my purposes. 06:15:13 Phoodus, yes that's true, emacs with eli though, not slime 06:15:26 easyE [3S88D4ma9m@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 06:15:53 manic12: aha! you've come to infiltrate us with franz-propaganda! 06:16:19 it's more like friday night and not tired enough to sleep 06:16:44 sykopomp: none work, apparently (CL on android, that is), except ECL loaded as library. Unless you're going for the full-native process trick which makes for slow boot or for rooted phone :) 06:17:24 p_l: so ECL and clisp run on rooted phones just fine? 06:17:39 I'm not really looking for widespread distribution, commercial or otherwise. 06:17:42 my n800 runs clisp, I'm sure the n900 would and that's a phone ;) 06:17:55 just a way to mess around with CL. 06:18:21 Phoodus: I just ordered a Nexus One. Was tempted by the n900, but I think I'll get much more bang for my buck with the first. 06:18:28 or at least so went my thought process. 06:18:31 my suggestion when asked about how to improve the ide was to run two separate processes, one for the ide and one for the lisp with which you will run code 06:18:31 does android run emacs? 06:18:46 end result is I now have a nexus one I'd like to mess around with lisp on. 06:18:52 android is the custom java VM OS? (I don't pay much attention to smartphones) 06:19:05 Phoodus: Yeah. 06:19:18 i've run emacs on an arm9 running debian, i dunno about android 06:19:29 sykopomp: if you don't need distribution, ECL and CLISP will run fine, just remember that you'll be probably first to do some quite low-level bindings to internal APIs :) 06:19:40 i don't mean theoretically run, but so that you can use it 06:19:50 I thought I read something about ABCL running on android, but ABCL is painful enough to run on my desktop. Android would probably be wrist-slittingly bad. 06:20:14 stassats`: considering you have a dinky on-screen keyboard. I don't think there would be much of a point. 06:20:35 can you hook up a BT-keyboard? 06:20:37 I've got a Pandora on order, and having the left & right shoulder buttons mapped to ( and ) would be kind of fun ;) 06:20:56 stassats`: no idea! 06:21:48 and an external display... 06:21:52 stassats`: ah. Looks like there's a driver for bluetooth keyboards now? 06:22:12 in any case, if I want to do that kind of serious coding, I have an eeepc that serves that purpose better. 06:22:24 and rooting means I can tether. 06:24:04 what do you plan to do on it with lisp? 06:24:33 i set up lisp on n810 just for the sake of it, never did anything useful 06:24:34 nothing in particular. Play around with ideas. I just want to tinker, and I'd rather tinker using CL :) 06:24:47 -!- engteacher [~csafdsafa@189.220.21.241.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 06:24:51 it's for the warm fuzzy feeling. 06:25:26 btw, what's the big issue with tethering in US? 06:25:43 no idea. The carriers here are douches. 06:25:44 i saw an article mentioning arm servers, i wonder if they will be 64 bit 06:26:10 p_l: so they can pull more money from you 06:27:38 p_l: there's some stuff wrt wireless carriers that US customers never seemed to have grown to expect. 06:28:02 so 10¢ per sms seems reasonable to the average US customer. 06:28:24 as do 2-year contracts that charge you more per month, and $200 early cancellation fees. 06:28:30 all this is one major reason why I, an American technology consumer, have no interest in smartphones 06:28:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28:40 instead I carry a wifi handheld computer 06:28:52 which one? 06:29:03 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-146-212-212.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:29:11 I've got the n800, getting a Pandora, had a Jornada 720 before 06:29:17 we need more carriers 06:29:18 Phoodus: buying the phone straight up, and just using 3g + some im client instead of SMS is pretty reasonable. 06:29:21 i like to go unplugged personally 06:29:31 lithper1_: they're eating each other. 06:29:35 ... You just prooved that USA really is 3rd world of mobile telecommunication 06:29:41 it is 06:29:48 it's true 06:30:20 p_l: heh. you haven't visited Canada or Australia yet. 06:30:21 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:30:22 where the entrepreneurs trying to replace these giants? 06:30:25 lithper1_: the whole reason I'm getting a new phone is because my current carrier is getting shut down by its new owner. 06:30:26 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:38 price-fixing ftw. 06:30:38 lithper1_: getting shut out by lobbied law 06:30:50 I started with Sprint, which screwed me over badly. Then I moved to Helio, which I loved in every respect. Best customer service ever. 06:31:07 but Helio got bought out by Virgin, who turned it into its monthly-plan wireless service. 06:31:13 lithper1_: have you ever seen the prices involved with starting a new carrier? 06:31:21 ...and then Sprint bought Virgin Mobile. 06:31:25 Helio was a nice idea, but their phones got mangled by the smartphone wave 06:31:26 :( 06:31:31 start a pirate carrier 06:31:31 (and that's excluding license fees for frequencies) 06:31:36 even small towns trying to set up a wifi utility have the telcos come in and destroy their service 06:31:40 stassats`: hard to do 06:32:06 Phoodus: apparently USA might need to regulate carriers more, since they act too capitalistic? :P 06:32:14 last time i was on #lisp i was trying to drum up interest for opengl gui toolkits 06:32:21 so now Sprint is shutting down Virgin's monthly service in 3 weeks, and I can either go with Sprint, or run away. 06:32:22 they manipulate law to destroy them, not offer competitive service to destroy them 06:32:37 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:52 and the best way to manipulate law is to get your folks installed at the regulator's office 06:32:59 manic12: that sounds kinda neat. I was at a TC Lisp meeting that talked about various GUI toolkits, one of which used OpenGL. 06:33:00 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 06:33:07 in any case, I shopped around for a prepaid tether cell data plan. None exist afaict 06:33:10 In Poland it's hard to start a *real* carrier, but virtual carriers (meaning you don't have your own installations) are easy. 06:33:25 sykopomp, what's it called? 06:33:35 manic12: Woolly or something? 06:33:50 http://github.com/nklein/Woolly 06:34:16 I think the project's already dead, but at least it gave it a shot :) 06:34:18 manic12: lately I've been looking into "normal" toolkits augmented with GLX using GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap for acceleration 06:34:34 p_l: using CLX? 06:35:04 sykopomp: depends. I'm of two minds, I'm not sure if I shouldn't go with XCB/Xlib and FFI 06:35:08 -!- quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 06:35:47 p_l: GLX support in CLX seems to be a bit lacking, but there also seems to be interest in improving it if a project that really tries to use it rolls around. 06:35:53 there are various reasons to go with FFI that weren't a big player when CLX got started. 06:36:21 (like imlib2, DevIL, access to direct rendering when needed etc.) 06:37:35 clx was started on a lispmachine, wasn't it? 06:37:42 stassats`: yeah 06:42:04 what is sheeple exactly, i forget 06:42:15 minion: sheeple? 06:42:16 sheeple: Sheeple is a delegative prototype-based object system inspired by CLOS. http://www.cliki.net/sheeple 06:42:35 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:42:48 i liked previous description better 06:43:00 I liked it too. 06:43:07 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:43:17 i had a kbe kernel called Adhoc that I abandoned 06:44:49 i needed about 5 different classes for a line, and i thought it was dumb 06:46:04 last year's economy broke me, now i am not so stubborn about what and how to program 06:46:45 that was a good thing 06:47:11 possibly 06:47:16 I do PHP for a living now :) 06:47:20 well, rather, I test it. 06:47:22 but i still think c++ is a waste of human life 06:47:31 and I guess I write some scripts in CL every now and then, too. 06:53:29 it's probably time to sleep 06:54:31 sykopomp: clearly, we need a CL->php compiler! 06:54:39 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.206.151] has left #lisp 06:55:06 isn't there already? 06:55:09 p_l: no. PHP needs to die, screaming, in a fire. 06:55:23 and I need to watch it burn just to make sure there's nothing left. 06:55:35 anybody mess with nvidia cards? 06:55:50 manic12: what do you mean? 06:56:09 you mean use nv-specific opengl extensions? 06:56:09 cuda/glsl, etc 06:56:16 oh that 06:56:46 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56:53 i ran examples from cuda 06:57:14 manic12: there's a GPGPU compiler for CL on github, with CUDA backend available 06:57:30 i guess my nvidia GPU isn't much faster than CPU 06:57:49 glsl probably compiles down to the same language that cuda compiles to 06:58:28 and it would be nice to avoid glsl altogether and just generate the nvidia assembly from cl 06:59:00 minion: cl-gpu? 06:59:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-gpu''. 06:59:05 that would make opengl gui programming more flexible 06:59:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:59:40 manic12: not necessarily - GLSL might not generate opcodes that "computing shaders" would include 07:00:12 glsl is for shaders, do you mean the assembly? 07:00:35 i forget what the assembly is called 07:00:46 and i'm too tired to look it up 07:00:57 the assembly is whatever the GPU will execute :) 07:01:13 (which might be placed on different cpu architectures) 07:01:13 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:47 right, can't you just send the assembly to the driver and tell it "oh by the way, this is a vertex shader" 07:02:07 manic12: not really, though some APIs allow you to precompile them 07:02:22 (OpenCL definitely had that option) 07:03:07 i'm sure there is a direct mapping between uniforms attributes varyings, etc and cuda 07:05:53 ptx is what the assembly is called 07:05:55 OpenCL IMHO is the backend too look at except when your target is actual display (though it can render to "image" objects which might be then processed as tectures, iirc) 07:06:11 parallel thread execution 07:06:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:07:14 don't opencl, glsl and cuda all translate into ptx? 07:08:10 manic12: not really. OpenCL might translate into ptx on nVidia, x86/x86-64 on PC cpu, Cell SPU code, ATi compute shaders, etc. etc. 07:09:09 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 07:09:24 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:09:46 oh yeah I forgot I can't just force everyone to use nvidia 07:09:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:08 i ate all my tangerines and the store is closed :( 07:12:28 so OpenCL is platform neutral? 07:13:31 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:31 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:13:31 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 07:14:22 manic12: yes, the standard only describes the language and APIs 07:14:36 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 07:14:55 I had personally seen libraries which would then take the same code and generate wildly different assembly for different cpus :) 07:18:32 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:21:48 p_l, we'll have to pick up this conversation after later and after i read up on opencl 07:22:15 because i'm about to pass out 07:22:20 manic12: no problem. BTW, look into ATi/AMD implementation (the FireStream SDK), as it doesn't require a GPU 07:22:48 of opencl? 07:23:26 anyway, night all 07:24:33 cya (yes, OpenCL) 07:25:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.70.60] has joined #lisp 07:27:53 fun with common lisp -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJHGrOtmkio 07:29:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:32:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:17 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 07:35:48 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 07:41:15 bytecolor: nice! 07:42:03 -!- adlai_ [~adlai@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:42:19 p_l: lispworks issues? seriously? (I knew it! ECL really *is* the only reasonably deployable lisp!) 07:44:00 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:44:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.70.60] has left #lisp 07:45:38 thanks schme. I fixed a problem with the source link. it was including the trailing period. 07:45:41 hefner: no, the issues were related to my OS, not to deployment. 07:45:50 And were actually tied to IDE 07:46:58 you're suggesting it's reasonable to blame "doesn't start" on the OS instead of the application? 07:47:36 or just that it was some minor problem in the IDE that wouldn't effect users (once they figured out how to start the IDE, at least)? 07:49:16 hefner: it involved not only LispWorks, it's just that LispWorks' IDE exhibited the nature of it the most 07:50:08 after I fixed the issue (which was OS-spanning issue with dynamic linker) LW started working properly again. 07:51:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:51:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:43 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:04 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 07:53:22 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 07:53:54 you're saying it is entireless blameless, and LW wasn't just asking to break the first time the winds in Redmond changed direction? 07:54:20 hefner: it wasn't on Windows, even. 07:54:35 oh. hah. which OS? 07:55:03 *hefner* seemed to assume all Lispworks users used Windows 07:55:08 Linux amd64 07:55:22 well, nothing ever works right on Linux. big surprise! :]) 07:55:26 and 32bit LW personal edition 07:55:55 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 luckily you're on an OS now that cares about user experience 07:57:17 tcr: yes, it combines the best of 80s UI paradigms with modern eye candy 07:59:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 08:01:40 tcr: Like Linux, it has its quirks and brokenness. On OS X, that's things like sane multiple desktops, running UI and audio in arbitrary threads, or running multiple applications from one process. On Linux, it's things like sound, video, 3d acceleration, wireless, and power management. 08:03:05 Wha? When did those things break on linux? 08:03:22 until you stuff OS X into a mobile device, then it includes running whatever software you damn well want to and it not being a pain in the ass. 08:03:29 This ecl seems supernice 08:03:51 ECL is evil, and CL is doomed. 08:03:57 *p_l* haven't had real problems with "consumer" sound on linux in long time. Wireless isn't that bad. Previous issues with power management had quite high possibility of being caused by non-OS related industrial sabotage (not joking). 3D? well... Intel sucks at driver writing. 08:04:21 tell me about this sabotage 08:04:56 Adamant: BIOS explicitly removed advanced power management on dual-core cpus 08:05:03 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.60.250] has joined #lisp 08:05:26 even the parts that didn't require BIOS support 08:05:38 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:05:39 isn't it supposed to be using a newer standard at this point anyway 08:05:50 or am I thinking of the wrong thing 08:05:54 Adamant: ACPI tables still live in BIOS :) 08:06:27 who did the sabotaging? 08:06:28 \ 08:06:39 it's also the BIOS that implements SM-level support code, which overrides OS always 08:06:46 *SMM-mode 08:07:07 Adamant: I suspect either plain incompetence or bribe from intel. 08:07:12 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:07:57 isn't SMM-mode redundant? 08:08:09 however, being used to certain "contracts" that kept AMD out of big retail chains in Poland, I leaned more credibility to the bribe option 08:08:12 hefner: right. 08:08:14 Only problem I have with linux is really hibernation. It doesn't seem to work 50% of the time. 08:09:00 power management has worked fine on my laptop (thinkpad) forever. 3d works just excellent (nvidia). Sound only gets messed up by the stupid flashplayer :) 08:09:16 schme: Well, I didn't test hibernation, I only do S3 (neither S3 nor S4 worked reliably on my old laptop - an issue with closed-source driver and VBIOS of the card) 08:09:48 schme: you mean sound started to be messed up when soundcards stopped being used in PCs? :P 08:10:01 p_l: I have no idea what S3 or S4 is. I just run s2disk on my desktop and half the time it works, the other half it locks up while storing stuff and I have to just power down. 08:10:21 p_l: soundcards stopped being used? what? 08:10:24 S3 = Suspend to RAM; S4 = Suspend to Disk; 08:10:28 schme: excellent! the next step in this program is to dump a bucket of water on it, have the last traces of life eradicated by incompetent repair people, and buy a Macbook. 08:10:34 p_l: Oh I suspend to disk obviously :)= 08:11:01 schme: instead of soundcards they mount Digital/Analog codec and claim it's a soundcard 08:11:03 hefner: A macbook?! But I already have a lptop :) 08:11:47 p_l: I have a soundcard. I'm sure of that. But the problem is the adobe flashplayer likes to steal the whole audiosystem and refuse to return control 'til after I kill off chrome. 08:11:54 (or ff or opera) 08:12:34 schme: what machine? Desktop with dedicated soundcard or USB audio? 08:12:36 *hefner* is beginning to entertain the possibility that his MBP really is defective. why should moving a machine two inches, or tilting it back 10 degrees, be the difference between no wireless signal and good wireless signal? 08:12:43 p_l: and it refuses to co-operate with jack! (so does lisp too though) 08:12:51 p_l: desktop with a dedicated soundcard. 08:13:54 hefner: hit it with a hammer. :) also what is evil with ecl? 08:13:55 schme: ah. As for flash, I run it in separate process (due to ndiswrapper, which nowadays is also running under separate process, as Firefox 3.7 runs plugins separately) 08:14:18 so I can kill flash and reload page 08:14:23 p_l: I dunno. It is some npviewer.bin or something that is my problem. Dunno how it is run. 08:14:25 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 08:14:45 schme: that's what you kill when flash acts up, don't kill FF 08:14:59 it doesn't work just killing that. I have to kill of chrome too. 08:15:08 and the same when I was using ff. 08:15:12 it's a host process for plugins in nspluginwrapper) 08:15:23 weird 08:15:37 I wish they would just make it work with jack or open source it >< 08:16:21 I think the solution is to only check youtune from the phone :) 08:18:09 youtube even 08:26:45 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 08:28:47 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:48 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.248.192] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 08:33:13 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 08:33:13 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 08:33:47 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 08:34:51 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 08:35:32 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:39:44 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:41:19 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:43:03 Why would FUNCALL be consing? 08:43:24 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:51 Athas [~athas@95.142.156.83] has joined #lisp 08:52:08 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-10-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:53:55 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:54:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-36-236.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:58:31 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.60.250] has left #lisp 09:03:21 -!- Athas [~athas@95.142.156.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:21 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:07:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:07:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:10:32 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:15:14 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:59 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:35 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 09:25:40 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:26:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:27:40 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:27:41 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-102-216.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:27:57 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 09:32:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A4AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:26 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:13 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:43:33 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 09:49:41 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:15 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:36 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:55 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:28 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:02:28 iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 Xof, Krystof: thanks, it works. 10:08:25 Xof, Krystof: some tests fail, I'll work on that later. 10:10:58 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:12:40 -!- jao [~jao@6.Red-88-18-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:14 UnderTaLker [~bot@89.108.125.28] has joined #lisp 10:17:58 xan_ [~xan@38.Red-80-36-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:06 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:18:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:25:20 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 10:31:48 jamu [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has joined #lisp 10:39:06 beach: maybe if the function that's being called takes a &rest argument? 10:42:32 -!- Madsy [~Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43:22 yay. clucumber now does all that I think it should, and can test itself. I think this is pretty much done. 10:44:39 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:44:50 beware of pareto! 10:49:28 My take on it is "The 80% are elsewhere" :-) 10:51:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:52:35 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:54:00 cmsimon [~Chris@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:54:50 Joreji [~thomas@74-239.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:55:05 Madsy [~Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 11:04:24 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:09:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:09:48 mrSpec` [~Spec@novos-ost.cust.sloane.cz] has joined #lisp 11:11:18 yeah, there is always more that could be done. but right now, it's neat and tidy, and I can use it elsewhere (: 11:11:51 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:12:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:13:34 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:14:51 -!- mrSpec` [~Spec@novos-ost.cust.sloane.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:16:21 Guthur [~michael@host86-145-186-155.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:11 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:19:04 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-210-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:28:22 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:30:43 laynor [~ale@109.76.87.147] has joined #lisp 11:30:50 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:30:52 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:32:26 Hi, this is not really lisp related, but since cl is my tool, i'll ask here: could you recommend me some reading to improve my software design skills, especially from an architectural point of view? 11:32:52 minion: PAIP? 11:32:52 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 11:33:43 Will i get some new tool in my bag to design system in a systematic way? 11:34:34 you need to design a big system first 11:34:36 laynor: Try to design software functionally in the large, but use side-effects as you wishes locally. E.g. if a function modifies a object, make that function return that object, and make call sides explicitly receive that object. By that you streamline control and data flow. 11:35:19 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:28 tcr: any ideas how to retrieve list of all functions, variables, etc. from a particular file? 11:35:51 i only got: list all symbols from a package, check their source-file 11:35:57 read it in 11:36:12 ok thanks :) 11:36:43 tcr: what do you mean? 11:36:56 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-145-186-155.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:36:59 well read the file in, grovel over all toplevel forms 11:37:47 What are you trying to do with the list anyway? Present to the user in Slime? 11:37:51 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:03 tcr: yeah, i'm playing with speedbar 11:38:14 so far i got displaying of all files from an .asd 11:38:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:38:50 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:00 What if a user C-c C-cs a definition without saving the buffer to the file? 11:39:10 deepsky [~chatzilla@host248-184-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:39:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-247.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:42 let me look how it's done for .el files 11:39:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 11:40:10 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:50 damn, emacs crashes all the time when i try to do something with a mouse 11:41:48 that'll teach you 11:42:29 i had to start a second emacs so that ERC doesn't crash 11:42:41 (actually, third, counting gnus-emacs) 11:47:11 tcr pasted "toc, for stassats" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98633 11:47:16 apparently it uses that pesky semantic/ecb for getting info from .el 11:47:50 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:48:10 tcr: i'll compare that with going through all symbols 11:48:29 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet7315.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 11:49:07 well the advantage of reading is that you see the source as is, not after macroexpansion 11:49:15 so you can have a group for deflimefuns e.g. 11:50:40 damn that lisp, so flexible you can't reason about it 11:52:24 the schemeperator feels your moment of weakness 11:52:49 i was thinking more about Java or C 11:53:36 with their humongous IDEs 11:55:24 I don't know whether C IDEs really parse source files (clang was created to make it well feasible), but I thought they'd just use TAGS which is the regexp equivalent of what I pasted 11:57:24 some let the compiler do the work 11:58:11 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:03:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:03:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:10:00 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA64C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:08 peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:19:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:59 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 12:25:49 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.40] has joined #lisp 12:27:18 -!- cmsimon [~Chris@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 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SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:43 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.68.72] has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:50 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:28 hello nyef 13:12:31 ivenkys [~ivenkys@unaffiliated/ivenkys] has joined #lisp 13:12:38 -!- ivenkys [~ivenkys@unaffiliated/ivenkys] has left #lisp 13:12:42 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:12:54 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:16:26 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:17:07 I have strange problem, when I run program as root all is ok, but when I'll run it as normal user I got: component "clsql-mysql" not found 13:17:17 where as asdf looking for files? 13:17:24 s/as/is/ 13:18:32 relative to an .asd file 13:18:45 I have 2 files /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/clsql-5.0.5/clsql-mysql.asd /usr/local/lib/sbcl/systems/clsql-mysql.asd 13:18:48 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:19:19 so, you meant where it looks for .asd files? 13:20:01 it looks according to asdf:*central-registry* 13:20:06 mr it looks in the central registry 13:20:09 heh 13:20:15 if as root it uses this files, as user it should too? I think 13:20:17 think type look 13:20:17 ah 13:20:29 quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has joined #lisp 13:20:31 no, it shouldn't 13:20:34 ok I'll check this central-registry :D 13:20:37 mrSpec: that is not a sensible thought :P 13:20:52 mrSpec: what implementation are you using? 13:21:04 let me guess: SBCL 13:21:17 yes sbcl 13:21:29 do you have an ~/.sbclrc 13:22:26 no 13:22:28 netytan [~netytan@85.211.45.88] has joined #lisp 13:23:13 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:24:01 mrSpec pasted "*central-registry*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98634 13:24:07 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 13:24:11 that's where you will set your central-registry 13:24:41 mrSpec: what is that! 13:24:43 do I understand it correctly that it is looking for files only in my home dir? 13:24:55 wrong 13:25:56 mrSpec: http://sprunge.us/fSZj 13:26:17 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 that's a valid ~/.sbclrc you can start with, change that directory (/home/derrida/clbuild/systems) to you /path/to/central-registry 13:26:45 derrida: this are lines from .sbclrc? 13:26:45 ah ok 13:26:58 derrida: doesn't look valid to me 13:27:10 stassats: how so? 13:27:47 derrida: The value /HOME/DERRIDA/CLBUILD/SYSTEMS/ is not of type (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM). 13:28:06 test it 13:28:23 test what? 13:28:28 it works fine 13:29:11 maybe it does, but not what's pasted by that link 13:29:37 yes, what is pasted in that link 13:29:58 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 13:30:39 wget http://sprunge.us/fSZj -O .sbclrc && /usr/local/bin/sbcl => the error I pasted 13:30:57 if you don't believe me 13:31:38 derrida: I have the same error 13:31:49 i'll paste my whole .sbclrc 13:31:49 mrSpec: put "" around the path 13:31:56 i don't think it should make any difference though 13:32:20 derrida: did you look at your paste? it has #p/home/fooo, without quotes 13:32:37 it does?! 13:32:40 ah 13:32:46 it must have stripped them 13:32:49 that is bizarre 13:33:04 it does ;) 13:33:12 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:33:13 http://sprunge.us/WKMS 13:33:15 thanks 13:33:29 now it has 13:33:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:33:44 that is the strangest damn thing 13:33:49 heh 13:34:13 stassats: sorry for doubting you :) 13:35:07 hm but still it cant find component "clsql-mysql" :S 13:35:45 you want to set the *central-registry* to the location of the clsql-mysql.asd file (if that's what it's even called hehe) 13:36:31 to a list one of the forms of which should evaluate to a path where clsql-mysql.asd can be found 13:36:55 better 13:37:03 ah so I'll should add #p/usr/local/lib/sbcl/systems/clsql... not only .../systems/ ? 13:37:13 no 13:37:30 and don't forget the quotes :P 13:37:45 k ;) 13:39:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:39:14 suppose /usr/local/lib/sbcl/systems/ is a directory, which contains a file clsql-mysql.asd, which is a symlink to /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/clsql-5.0.5/clsql-mysql.asd. then you need to add (push #p"/usr/local/lib/sbcl/systems/" asdf:*central-registry*) to your ~/.sbclrc 13:39:23 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 13:40:10 yeah, I did that 13:40:21 things should start working :) 13:40:44 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:08 unfortunately not, ok I'll check it in few minutes. sorry brb dinner 13:41:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:07 heh, just sipping my coffee ;) 13:43:58 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:45:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:46:54 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:09 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 13:47:09 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:27 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:28 -!- c|mell [~cmell@85.221.0.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:52 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:49:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:51:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:53:04 -!- wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:00:42 ok, back. I see I have some files in /root/.sbcl :S Maybe I should copy all from /root/.sbcl to ~/.sbcl ? 14:01:00 TR2N [email@89-180-137-55.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 14:10:36 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.38.11.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:11:23 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:19 papi [~user@212.99.78.126] has joined #lisp 14:21:53 hello please can you tell me how to represent a infinity value on common lisp 14:23:04 papi, what do you mean? 14:23:48 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:56 I want to represent the mathematical symbol +infinity in lisp 14:24:09 no standard way 14:24:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:24:18 (apropos "infinity") 14:24:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.108.91] has joined #lisp 14:25:25 no matches for apropos "infinity" 14:25:41 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:54 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:26:09 the #\INFINITY character exists in sbcl, but I suspect that's not what you mean :) 14:26:25 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 14:26:34 papi: what implementation? 14:27:20 stassats: I don't know 14:27:32 wait, do you want a symbol or a floating point infinity? 14:27:54 papi: that's not possible! 14:28:05 stassats: yes, that's what i want 14:28:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:28:23 that's a good answer 14:29:23 stassats: what variable can i use for representing a big floating point 14:29:38 you can use most-positive-long-float 14:29:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:50 that's a constant 14:29:52 hmm 14:30:00 and for integer? 14:30:06 doesn't IEEE-754 float have an Inf symbol? 14:30:12 papi: there's no such thing 14:30:13 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:30:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:39 papi: There is no limit to the integer precision in Lisp. 14:30:45 zeroish` [~zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:49 TeMPOraL: lisp doesn't use IEEE-754 14:31:00 papi: If you were given such a thing, what would you do with it? 14:31:15 *TeMPOraL* didn't know 14:31:56 though there is a standard feature :IEEE-FLOATING-POINT, for implementations which support it 14:32:01 i need to intialize a list of values with this constant 14:32:17 what for? 14:32:30 temporal: for example (/ 1 0) gives +INF in IEEE754, but CLHS says: The consequences [of division] are unspecified if any argument other than the first is zero. 14:32:37 papi: And then what are you going to with that list, i.e. what operations to you expect to apply to this infinitey value? 14:33:01 s/to you/do you/ 14:33:04 deepsky, and what with (/ 1.0 0.0) 14:33:24 or (/ 1.0 (/ (- 1 epsilon) 2) )? ;) 14:33:36 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 yeah that's what I meant 14:33:55 (the first one) 14:33:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:59 ok 14:34:28 so, CL Standard doesn't use IEEE-754? 14:34:30 right? 14:34:49 thanks to everybody 14:35:13 i found some thing like "most-positive-fixnum" 14:35:20 it's good for me 14:35:29 papi: that's nowhere near infinity. 14:35:35 papi I don't think that's what you need 14:36:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:13 yes but you told me infinity doesn't exist in lisp 14:36:16 (sb-int:with-float-traps-masked (:divide-by-zero) (/ 1.0 0.0)) => #.SB-EXT:SINGLE-FLOAT-POSITIVE-INFINITY 14:36:45 papi: If you told us what you are going to do with it, it would be much easier to come up with a reasonable solution to your problem. 14:37:28 -!- bgs1001 [znc@57o9.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:37:28 bgs1001 [znc@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:37:36 -!- bgs1001 is now known as bgs100 14:37:53 papi: for example, in the implementation that I'm using, most-positive-fixnum is 1152921504606846975, which is a really mediocre idea of infinity 14:38:04 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BF5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:13 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BF5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:14 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:16 prxq [~mommer@g227029239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:33 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 14:38:40 hi 14:38:45 Hello prxq 14:38:46 thanks stats SINGLE-FLOAT-POSITIVE-INFINITY works great 14:38:56 *sigh* 14:38:59 anything is mediocre when confronted with infinity 14:39:11 hi beach. wussup? :-) 14:39:14 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:26 xit 14:39:29 exit 14:39:33 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:39:36 papi: if you know that you don't know what you're doing, then fine 14:40:02 -!- papi [~user@212.99.78.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:40:16 Is there a way to get access to shell from SBCL repl? 14:40:27 sb-ext:run-program 14:40:29 prxq: Not much. Trying to cure my cold. What about you. 14:40:40 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@siphon.research.att.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:44 stassats: Thank you 14:43:32 The other day, I was asked: "What's the minimal amount of non-Lisp code you code you could reasonably get away with when implementing a CL system?". I mean, it is *possible* to get 0, if you just generate an ELF executable directly, but what if you want to use the (sometimes quite elaborate) wrappers that the libc supplies for posix compatibility. 14:44:07 beach: 0 does not sound too reasonable 14:44:17 Right. 14:44:19 beach: I've been rather busy, with no end in sight. 14:44:25 Ouch! 14:44:31 no end to being busy :-) 14:45:01 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:45:10 leo2007 pasted "fuzzy" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98637 14:45:26 So for instance, imagine you want a set of Lisp wrappers for the Posix wrappers in the libc. How would you go about doing that. 14:45:30 s/./?/ 14:45:46 any idea what's the purpose of slime-fuzzy-selected (see the doc string in 98637)? 14:46:52 beach: still 0 if I have access to another CL system for development. 14:47:01 beach: normally, you'd have an "alien interface" and build on top of that. Or did i misunderstand your question? 14:47:32 prxq: I don't think you misunderstood. 14:47:38 IME, C libs are nicer to use from CL than from C 14:47:38 p_l: How so? 14:48:17 That's very much not my experience. What makes it nicer from CL? 14:48:48 schme: interactivity, reasonable wrappers, with-foo, etc. 14:48:55 beach: just call it "data" 14:48:57 schme: what was your experience? 14:49:15 prxq: My experience is landing in the sbcl debugger. 14:49:23 leo2007: it's not used currently 14:49:34 yawn stretch 14:49:47 beach: create an easy-to-use assembly generator for low-level parts of the system, that can use full abilities of host CL image, write a linker (or use an external one if possible) and get a simple macro to create C call sequence to a symbol later resolved by linker 14:50:04 stassats: you mean notifying the lisp have no effect, right? 14:50:10 leo2007: read (documentation #'swank:fuzzy-completion-selected t) 14:50:15 leo2007: currently, yes 14:50:17 beach: alternatively, you can use something like llvm. I think. 14:50:48 stassats: thanks 14:51:19 p_l: The point would be to create a system that is independent of the one used to build it. 14:51:34 beach: is that even possible? 14:51:45 ah ok 14:51:47 sorry 14:51:56 i'm contemplating writing more fuzzy and more fancy swank-fuzzy for a about a year now, but i still haven't started 14:52:13 beach: the host CL would be only used to generate the new CL that would be completely independent 14:52:25 prxq: with libjack specifically. It seems not so easy to get it working correctly... crashes pretty much everytime the jackd tries to get code in lisp space executed. 14:52:35 beach: basically, a sensible bootstrap 14:54:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:26 sanely bootstrappable common lisp, i saw that somewhere already 14:54:56 p_l: I know that much. The question was what method to use in order for the new system to have Lisp-callable Posix functions. One such possibility would be to write references to them in C or assembly and have the linker grab them. Another would to write a linker in Lisp, and go find them yourself, et. 14:55:38 the same code would be also part of built CL for the same purposes (FFI, assembly hacks etc) 14:55:42 schme: ok. My experience is with gtk, although writing the raw wrappers themselves is a pain, and with all sorts of numerical codes. 14:56:05 schme: that might be a signaling issue. Just a hunch 14:56:58 i use a rule of thumb "no ffi, no problems" 14:57:14 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57:26 *stassats* goes writing ffi for inotify 14:57:31 beach: it can be done two ways - my personal approach is to use said LAP system to generate the actual wrappers (and all other low level code) while a linker script can be used for linking the image (or you can implement the linker yourself, but I don't see a need. I see a need for generating object files supported by the linker) 14:57:41 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:58:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:42 beach: sorry to insist, but how about llvm? 14:58:57 prxq: doesn't solve the issue 14:59:28 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:00:01 is the "LAP" system you're talking about the same as what you use to generate lap closures (i.e. for fast reader methods) or something entirely different? 15:00:54 Lisp Assembly Program 15:01:03 http://blog.bitquabit.com/2008/04/04/pilots-programmers-and-perl/ <--- hahaha 15:01:04 maybe then 15:01:08 stassats: I have modified fuzzy to update the target buffer on the fly. 15:01:21 probably then 15:01:35 TAB now goes to the next entry 15:01:56 you can send me a patch, if you want 15:02:07 prxq: A signalling issue? How do you mean? 15:03:00 p_l: ah ok 15:04:07 prxq: Looking now... 15:04:16 prxq: What I did, with CFFI, was to use it to register some lisp functions as callbacks (to be called from C-space when jackd contacts the client). This failed terribly. I have been later informed that callbcks should be in C-space :) 15:04:22 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:27 schme: normally, there is no problem with callbacks. I'd expect libjack to use signals in lots of creative ways. SBCL does that too. 15:04:35 prxq: Not that it matters.. I stopped the project for other reasons :) 15:04:36 schme: which implementation? 15:04:38 well, instead of using LAP, you could write LLVM assembly and compilethat... 15:04:40 prxq: SBCL 15:04:51 schme: not my experience with callback in sbcl. 15:05:02 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-254.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:09 leo2007 pasted "fuzzy.patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98639 15:05:12 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet7315.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:22 stassats: see 98639 15:05:25 schme: normally you'd hava one marshall callback per callback signature, and have that dispatch on the data argument 15:05:43 and that would call closures. 15:05:54 p_l, prxq: Thanks. I don't quite understand the answers which probably means the question was not very clear. I'll think of it some more. 15:06:23 prxq: That's an interesting idea really. Thanks. 15:06:35 leo2007: it would be better if it was customizable 15:06:37 happy 1 may 15:06:55 prxq: Maybe I'll look into it again in the future.. when I have made a realtime GC ;) 15:07:09 stassats: I didn't thought of that. I was basically modifying it for myself ;) 15:07:46 leo2007: if you want it to be included in slime 15:09:17 I don't know if it is an improvement yet. 15:09:53 prxq: You're now in my file of notes on stuff I might use later :) 15:10:06 it's not an improvement, just a variation on a theme 15:11:34 leo2007 pasted "slime fuzzy bug fixes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98640 15:12:20 leo2007 annotated #98640 "patch 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98640#1 15:13:00 stassats: 98640 are two bug fixes 15:13:15 the second one is clear, but what's the first doing? 15:14:02 i guess i see 15:14:07 the old code leave quite a few useless overlays with 'face property nil. 15:14:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-28-35.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:16:11 stassats: i will use my version of fuzzy for a while and polish it up before submitting it to slime-devel. 15:16:22 leo2007: alright 15:17:46 I've a questrion: is is possible 1) to start swank on a secondary thread, 2) to intercept avery call, so that I may have an around method 15:17:54 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 15:18:02 1) yes 15:18:27 what's "avery"? 15:18:46 every? 15:19:28 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:13 p_l, have you ever experimented with or actually used opencl? 15:21:34 manic12: only a little, haven't done anything big (don't have hardware or time) 15:21:44 beach, yes 15:22:11 I'm thinking how to bind EFL enlightenment libraries 15:22:44 I guess I should maybe look on nvidia's site or (or elsewhere) for examples of using it with opengl 15:22:54 xan_ [~xan@38.Red-80-36-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:05 beach, for example before calling a method I've to call another everytime 15:23:48 either that or come up with a dsl for generating glsl 15:23:54 by the way, I have slightly enhanced lisppaste.el so that all paste results are accumulated in one buffer with certain cutoff length. See a screenshot http://imagebin.org/95182 . 15:24:48 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9C32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 the package is uploaded to emacswiki. 15:26:43 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-137-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:55 leo2007: applied your patches 15:29:03 beach, any idea ? 15:29:19 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-244.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:29:20 kiuma: Me? Not really, no. Sorry. 15:29:33 kiuma: what are you trying to do? 15:29:48 stassats: thanks. 15:30:06 stassats, it happens that efl are not thread safe 15:31:13 the only safe way to contatc an efl application is with ecore-pipe, the only allowed to comunicate with efl from other threads 15:31:59 efl (elementary lib for precision) starts with a blocking loop (because it's event based) 15:32:27 and what is your solution? 15:32:27 so every time I interact with swnak 15:32:39 -!- synthase is now known as synthasee 15:32:41 stassats, solution is: 15:33:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:35 -!- Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:38 the suspense is killing 15:33:39 create a thread with hacked swank then vreate a loop that launches (elm-run) 15:33:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 stassats, no I can't kill 15:34:13 I've to call elm-exit from swank 15:34:19 using locks 15:34:24 kiuma: but why do you need "to intercept [e]very call"? 15:34:30 Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has joined #lisp 15:35:04 why do you need a thread with a swank, too? 15:35:11 it's an ecore function 15:35:32 because EFL is no thread safe and must run in main thread 15:36:31 stassats, http://docs.enlightenment.org/api/ecore/html/group__Ecore__Pipe__Group.html 15:36:37 fyi 15:37:27 so, is swank server naturally 'hackeable' ? 15:38:06 it is hackable, but i don't think you need to hack it 15:38:29 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:15 if you just want to start it in another thread 15:39:29 though it already does that 15:40:49 mm, this thing of making efl binding interactive is driving me mad :) 15:41:06 i.e. running not in the initial thread 15:43:24 yes, I've to knot my hands back, and avoid the temptation of starting to write before having found the right, optimal, solution. 15:46:50 how to force cvs to update again ignoring local changes? 15:47:19 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:48 to wipe out the local change? I rm the changed file and run update again. 15:48:22 alright 15:48:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@g227029239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:34 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:49:16 cvs up -C 15:49:33 ahh 15:49:34 i usually use C-x v u in emacs 15:50:02 i see. I put both git and cvs on the slime source. 15:51:30 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:53:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53:54 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-244.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 15:54:34 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:10 ... Why does run-in-child-sbcl not use --noprint and --disable-debugger, while subr.sh defines run-sbcl to do so? 15:56:27 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:32 (And isn't this a behavioral change from when we used fork() to run the impure tests? 15:56:56 does it solve the hanging? 15:57:13 In dynamic-extent.impure.lisp? Yes. 15:57:40 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 15:58:15 Not for run-program inherit-stdin, though. 15:58:23 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:58:31 i meant run-program.impure.lisp 15:59:04 I figured you did, but I found it while looking at a different hanging test. 15:59:42 (Still, said test shouldn't be doing what it does -anyway-, but being able to run the test suite without hacking would be a bit of a win.) 15:59:49 nyef: thanks for a good start towards 1.0.39 :-) 16:00:22 Krystof: No problem. 16:00:41 Now, if we can just get a build -without test failures- on some platform. 16:00:50 (I suggest x86-linux, as it only has two failures.) 16:01:10 Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:28 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:31 The suggestion has been made that a precondition for 1.1 is clean runs (no failures) on the test suite for all targets. 16:01:57 -!- chicago_andy [~user@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:51 clhs error 16:05:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_error.htm 16:07:47 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:54 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:11:17 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:11:26 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:11:26 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:11:53 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:12:32 zeugma [~user@216.229.3.105] has joined #lisp 16:18:28 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:18:28 -!- deepsky [~chatzilla@host248-184-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.7/2007112810]] 16:20:33 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:14 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:31 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:26:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:57 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:31:43 milanj [~milanj_@238.Red-79-146-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:24 -!- zeugma [~user@216.229.3.105] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:37:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.108.91] has left #lisp 16:38:29 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:53 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.58.120] has joined #lisp 16:39:56 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 16:39:58 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:41:22 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:54 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:42:00 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:42:02 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.58.120] has left #lisp 16:43:12 Joreji [~thomas@74-239.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:44:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:01 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 16:48:24 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:51:16 Phantom_Hoover [~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:59 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 Slime isn't working properly; Emacs prints "polling "/tmp/slime.####"" and then nothing happens. 16:53:08 see for clues in *inferior-lisp* buffer 16:53:10 I'm using SBCL, and both it and Slime are from the Lucid repositories. 16:53:19 Lucid? 16:53:25 Ubuntu 10.04 16:53:36 oh, i there was a lisp company called lucid 16:53:49 Phantom_Hoover: don't use slime from there, install one from cvs 16:53:59 OK. 16:54:08 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:54:13 don't forget to do apt-get --purge remove slime cl-swank 16:54:21 minion: clbuild? 16:54:22 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:54:35 this can fetch slime too 16:55:00 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:13 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:55:14 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:01 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 stassats: should/could slime-show-buffer-position use that slime-move-foo? 17:02:20 tohtis [~tohtis@187.52.230.114] has joined #lisp 17:02:21 it could, but it doesn't have to, since it selects a buffer 17:03:07 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03:37 silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:11 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:05:37 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:06:25 Thanks. 17:07:45 stassats: leo2007 wrote a patch for the buffer canonicalization. What do you think, should all buffers look like *slime-foo*, not just *slime-scratch*, *slime-repl ...*, *slime-events*? 17:08:02 hm. It seems like there's a development kit for real android apps that gives you access to the java API through a JNI. 17:08:03 In that case, the canonicalization could basically be used for almost all buffers 17:08:45 I wonder if it's possible to run _any_ lisp with an FFI and arm-compatibility on android, in that case. 17:08:49 it's in http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472 17:09:21 tcr: i don't mind any particular format, as long as it's consistent 17:10:03 leo2007: Could you do the necessary modifications in that case? 17:10:12 stassats: And could you apply the patch when time permits? 17:10:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 17:10:59 sykopomp: Where is this devkit you speak of? 17:11:00 alright, tomorrow morning, perhaps 17:11:10 http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html 17:11:20 sykopomp: thx 17:11:23 In English, can "to suspend" be used reflexively? 17:11:29 tcr: you want to modify (slime-buffer-name :xyz-bcd) to produce *slime-xyz-bcd*, right? 17:11:41 gives you access to android's java API through a JNI, plus stable headers to a couple of libraries. 17:11:44 Like, "a process is going to suspend"; or must it be "a process is going to be suspended" ? 17:11:47 sykopomp: Having just bought an android power phone this interests me :) 17:11:50 leo2007: yeah 17:11:55 any lisper in seville,spain ? 17:12:08 schme: I ordered a nexus1 last night :) 17:12:09 tcr: for all buffers possible? 17:12:24 tcr: "A process is going to suspend itself"? 17:12:25 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:26 sykopomp: you bit the bullet? 17:12:34 derrida: yeap. 17:12:41 leo2007: yes, events, scratch; for fontify you can add an additional &optional hidden flag 17:12:42 congrats :) 17:12:49 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.45.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:13:06 tcr: alright 17:13:07 I don't know if congratulations are in order after blowing that much money on a telephone :) 17:13:11 sykopomp: coming soon? 17:13:13 sykopomp: This looks very interesting the NDK stuff 17:13:24 netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 it's not a phone, it's a high-tech toy 17:13:31 tcr: sldb? 17:13:38 leo2007: untouched 17:13:45 ok 17:14:11 leo2007: deep down there's also a buffer *cl-connection*, but I can't quite recall the details so you should check if a renaming is appropriate 17:14:26 ok 17:14:29 schme: indeed. I'm hoping that it makes it possible to run at least the C-based lisps for real applications, as opposed to only being able to run stuff in the console of a rooted device. 17:14:41 derrida: hasn't shipped yet. I guess it'll get here monday or something. 17:14:47 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:05 nyef: That wording implies that the cause of the suspension was the process itself, right? 17:15:18 Yes. 17:15:43 sykopomp: I ordered me a HPC desire. still haven't arrived yet. lookin' forward to it. alesgirl convinced me I need it :) I think I'll try o match it up with clisp here now. Would make life much nicer than having to deal with that there jave :) 17:15:43 I would say that "... is going to suspend" is unnatural because it implies that the -process- is acting. 17:15:45 -!- silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:02 And, further, it doesn't say -what- is going to be suspended. 17:16:28 Well I'm talking about the process (as in action) of what gets to be done to be suspended 17:16:40 sykopomp: Ill avoid getting my hopes up though :) 17:16:41 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:48 would "going to suspension" be ok? 17:17:19 "becoming suspended", perhaps? 17:17:35 Or, "into suspension", as it's more a state than a place. 17:17:47 ok 17:18:18 I'd also argue that "suspension" isn't a word often used in this sort of context. 17:18:22 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:36 schme: at the very least, you can root it and run whatever ARM-based lisp you want right on linux. 17:18:58 Well I'm not applying for nobel prize in literature :-) 17:19:44 sykopomp: yeees.. that just feels so.. not right 17:19:54 schme: yeah, well. 17:20:03 schme: there's always ABCL and clojure ;) 17:20:39 Random project idea (not one I'll follow-through on): A JVM backend for SBCL. 17:20:49 ew. 17:21:13 What's the asdf-install name for aserve? 17:22:24 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.113] has joined #lisp 17:22:45 minion: paserve? 17:22:46 paserve: Short for portableaserve. http://www.cliki.net/paserve 17:23:08 even shorter: don't use asdf-install 17:23:43 But it's difficult otherwise! 17:23:45 and aserve, for that matter 17:23:54 minion: please tell Phantom_Hoover about hunchentoot 17:23:54 Phantom_Hoover: look at hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 17:23:55 tcr: slime repl untouched? 17:24:12 And asdf-install? 17:24:15 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 clbuild instead 17:24:35 leo2007: sure 17:27:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-239.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:27:04 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:27:05 p_l, I got a driver for opencl, and I'm looking at the headers, it seems at first glance like you can transfer gl data to opencl but not the other way 17:27:12 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:27:48 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:28:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@38.Red-80-36-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:28:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:28:48 antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:36 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 17:31:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:03 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:33:38 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:53 using cffi isn't that hard as i imagined 17:35:17 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: mulititasking == brain in blender] 17:36:51 leo2007 annotated #98472 "slime-buffer-name patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#4 17:37:15 stassats: see 98472#4 the patch tcr mentioned. 17:37:32 noted 17:40:20 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:40:51 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.60] has joined #lisp 17:48:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@238.Red-79-146-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:09 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 17:52:52 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:16 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 17:57:55 laynor_ [~ale@109.76.87.147] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 Good evening! 18:00:00 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-27-254.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:29 -!- laynor [~ale@109.76.87.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:12 tohtis_ [~tohtis@189.74.116.245] has joined #lisp 18:04:30 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:46 quodlibetor [~user@208.120.144.205] has joined #lisp 18:04:48 -!- tohtis [~tohtis@187.52.230.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:02 -!- Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:27 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 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5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:22:50 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082C4D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:08 -!- deepsky [~chatzilla@host248-184-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.7/2007112810]] 18:26:56 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 18:27:21 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:28:09 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:04 ruepel0r [~rue@e176226042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:08 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@e176226042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:12 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:31:53 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:10 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:36:11 pmatos [~user@host86-146-157-21.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 18:40:18 What's the nicest way to get a setfable equivalent to NTHCDR? 18:41:36 Modius: it's not? take the cdr of the n-1th cdr. 18:50:14 md1 [~user@85-135-169-72.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 18:53:55 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:54:37 prxq [~mommer@g227029239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:43 hi 18:58:01 marioxcc [~user@200.92.163.146] has joined #lisp 18:58:39 silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:04 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:18 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:58 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ] 19:09:37 -!- silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:04 -!- md1 [~user@85-135-169-72.adsl.slovanet.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:38 -!- tohtis_ [~tohtis@189.74.116.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:15 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:46 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-36-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:17:25 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:17:31 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:20:14 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:28 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:26:40 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:28:46 HG` [~HG@xdsley223.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:31:39 tohtis [~tohtis@189.74.106.41] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 Axius [~hi@109.97.57.151] has joined #lisp 19:35:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:32 aintme [~Miranda@46.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:38:23 Phantom_Hoover [~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:56 Why does clbuild fail when I try to install Lift? 19:39:28 <_3b> lift repo moved, try updating clbuild 19:43:10 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-208-146.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-254.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:44:16 -!- aidalgol [~user@69.61.15.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:41 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 aidalgol [~user@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 19:45:47 minion: memo for manic12: We appear to have missed each other... just msg me what you need and I'll answer asap (-: 19:45:47 Remembered. I'll tell manic12 when he/she/it next speaks. 19:45:58 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:51:43 _3b: How do you do that? 19:52:29 minion: What manner of creature are you? 19:52:30 why do you want to know? 19:52:42 -!- cddr [~user@5ac75e68.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:47 minion: are you a bot? 19:52:47 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 19:52:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:53:13 minion: Tell me how to update clbuild. 19:53:14 Phantom_Hoover: Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 44 seconds is too many. 19:53:25 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley223.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:30 How do you reply so quickly? 19:53:46 Unless you really are a bot... 19:54:00 That seems plausible... Now I look silly. 19:54:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 19:56:13 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-254.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:58:08 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.57.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:10 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.80] has joined #lisp 19:59:41 *schme* laughed a bit. 19:59:43 minion: chant 19:59:43 MORE HIGHLY 20:01:08 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:46 clbuild was patched to reflect the new location of lift last night. 20:02:49 should be fine now. 20:03:14 Phantom_Hoover [~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:38 Phantom_Hoover: cd to your clbuild directory and do "darcs pull" 20:03:48 it was patched to reflect the changed location of lift last night. 20:04:10 Fade: I downloaded clbuild today. 20:04:28 paste the error you're seeing 20:04:35 to a pastebin 20:04:56 and do the darcs pull anyhow. are there any outstanding patches? 20:07:32 Umm... 20:08:40 http://pastebin.com/xDGPgpCk is the test I get with "clbuild install lift". 20:08:52 s/test/text/ 20:09:13 darcs pull just says "Pulling from "http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild"... 20:09:15 No remote changes to pull in!" 20:10:06 woah 20:10:50 -!- tohtis [~tohtis@189.74.106.41] has quit [Quit: fui!!!] 20:11:03 <_8david> see, that's why I ask for pull requests, so that the person who wrote but didn't test the change has their name in the commit message :-) 20:11:16 huh 20:11:26 I did test it. 20:11:38 'sec 20:12:05 <_8david> keep in mind that the stated repo location gets ignored for an existing checkout of the same type 20:12:39 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:12:40 I'm using a fresh install from today, by the way. I've never used clbuild before. 20:12:42 *_8david* pushes a fix 20:12:54 :/ 20:13:02 Phantom_Hoover: You've discovered a bug. The lisp community thanks you. 20:13:22 *Phantom_Hoover* feels smug 20:13:40 Phantom_Hoover: I am sorry I laughed at you talking to the bot :) 20:13:55 Don't worry, I didn't see. 20:16:01 lisp is all about being smug anyway 20:16:29 especially if your name is Kenny 20:16:37 ??? 20:17:57 Phantom_Hoover: don't worry 20:20:37 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:08 well, I pooched that. Sorry, _8david 20:21:36 mea culpa 20:27:38 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 20:35:10 -!- aintme [~Miranda@46.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: /* */] 20:35:31 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 20:36:07 laynor [~ale@109.76.87.147] has joined #lisp 20:36:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:36 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:26 -!- laynor_ [~ale@109.76.87.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:31 Hmm... Hunchentoot claims that it requires trivial-backtrace, which it seems clbuild hasn't automatically installed. 20:42:08 Doesn't matter; I installed it manually. 20:45:25 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:46:56 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 nyef: re constant char comparisons, can't you define a type for characters that fit in 16 bit (or a load-if rule)? We do something like that already for displacement in EAs on x86oids. 20:50:14 jao [~jao@235.Red-88-18-167.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:52:35 -!- kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:13 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. the dependencies for hunchentoot are not correct :) 20:53:28 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:54:27 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:55:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-10-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:56:26 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:01:00 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:09:22 -!- quodlibetor [~user@208.120.144.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:04 pkhuong: Don't know. It seemed to me that it was defined in terms of primtypes, though, so I just killed it all as th easiest thing to do. 21:12:38 no, :constant is defined in terms of CL types. 21:13:20 I'll take another look in a bit, then. 21:13:45 You wouldn't happen to know what's going on with the non-x86oid define-full-call macro, would you? 21:14:05 I don't understand non-x86oids. 21:14:23 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:15:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-148-192.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:15:45 actually, I don't understand define-full-call (: 21:17:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 -!- Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:18:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-148-192.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:57 I thought the cross-product explanation was a good idea, but the non-x86oid implementation is completely alien to me. 21:20:02 I'm also coming to the conclusion that having a PPC isn't sufficient, and that I need another non-x86oid platform in order to have a side enough basis for comparison on stuff. 21:20:13 I have a sparc, but it's running fbsd 21:20:16 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:41 linux emulation might be enough? 21:21:16 Not sure. 21:21:41 I do have a MIPS device here that is capable of running linux, but it's a 2.4 kernel and I haven't heard about it being updatable since. 21:22:05 It's also a complete pain to boot into linux. 21:22:26 a router? 21:22:36 Playstation 2. 21:22:40 ouch 21:23:04 Yeah. Something about the CPU not being supported by modern GCC or something. 21:23:34 MIPS and qemu? 21:23:48 or a cheap SGI from a few years ago 21:24:02 Maybe. I'm not going to go out of my way to set something up right now. 21:24:03 via ebay 21:24:14 nyef: I'd have thought it was more likely that modern linux kernels just didn't support some of the supporting hardware 21:24:25 Playstation 2 had a pretty normal mips core, I think 21:24:43 rsynnott: Dunno. Compiler was the excuse I read somewhere. 21:26:32 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:43 Oddly, Sony apparently provided Linux for PS2 as a (failed) attempt to have it classified as a general purpose computer in the EU, for tax purposes) 21:27:08 -!- pmatos [~user@host86-146-157-21.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:22 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:28 *nyef* went the PS1-compatibility-exploit route rather than the find-linux-boot-disks route. 21:28:15 companies will do very strange things to get a lower rate of VAT :) 21:29:15 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:24 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:40 i have some sparc gear that I could make available on the net, but not for a couple of weeks. 21:29:55 i also have a lot of MIPS64 gear, but it's all running irix. 21:35:31 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 21:39:35 stuhacking [~stuhackin@host86-142-204-125.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:10 -!- stuhacking [~stuhackin@host86-142-204-125.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 21:45:03 Right, process-group stuff and run-program vs. fork is well over my head, and tracking it down is not what I want to be doing at this point. 21:47:16 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 21:47:54 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:49:43 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:50:48 Oh, god... I see what the call vops are doing. 21:51:53 There's two sequences of instructions, and they are being interleaved. 21:52:07 jones` [~user@212.99.78.126] has joined #lisp 21:52:47 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:49 Please can you tell me how to find a list minimum in common lisp? 21:53:43 -!- jones` [~user@212.99.78.126] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:13 Can you define the term "list minimum"? 21:55:02 ... And there's a MIN function, isn't there? 21:55:03 clhs min 21:55:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_max_m.htm 21:55:08 Yeah. That might help. 21:55:32 (Or not, depending on what you're trying to do.) 21:55:53 _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-238-7.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:02:59 Hrm... Actually, given the location of the various fillers, this looks like a poor-man's instruction scheduler. 22:03:41 You're looking at what, exactly? 22:03:41 don't we have one already on those platforms? 22:03:42 (The first couple of places with fillers are placed immediately after memory loads.) 22:03:54 It might depend on the platform, actually. 22:04:23 mle: I'm looking at the heart of function calling on SBCL/PPC, as it follows a different template from the one I'm used to. 22:04:50 Ahh, interesting. 22:04:55 It's also not like the scheduler is -disabled- for this VOP, either. 22:05:56 nyef: still, if all that complexity could be yanked out. 22:06:41 I'm not even bothered about all that so much. 22:07:09 We don't even get reliable backtraces from these platforms. 22:07:44 There are only lisp frames on the stack, and we -still- can't pick out the frame chain reliably. 22:09:54 And I know why, but I haven't figured out how to make it not happen. 22:10:53 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 22:11:10 why? 22:11:31 which is to say, why does it happen? 22:11:52 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:12:15 It happens because of so-called "escaped" frames, which is when an internal-error or other trap or interrupt occurs. 22:12:58 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:13:06 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:13 When this happens, the register context is stored in the thread structure and a fake frame is pushed to the control stack in order to call back in to lisp. 22:13:52 When the backtrace encounters this fake frame it knows to look at the saved context from the thread structure to figure out how to continue. 22:14:25 But if a function call -just happened-, then the incoming stack frame might not be set up, so that has to happen. 22:15:04 And the heuristic used by the runtime to detect this situation and fake it up for the debugger is exactly that. 22:15:12 minion: advice on heuristic? 22:15:12 #11953: Of course, this is a heuristic, which is a fancy way of saying that it doesn't work. 22:15:19 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:13 The two cases in which I'm aware it doesn't work are if there are stack args, thus requiring a caller-allocated frame, or if it's a tail-call, thus attempting to re-use an existing frame. 22:16:42 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:17:33 when can that happen? error traps can't happen in the middle of the calling sequence 22:17:43 so only w/ asynch interrupts? 22:17:53 And the undefined-function trampoline. 22:17:58 ah. 22:18:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:51 Oh, and for more fun, make-lisp-obj is obviously-broken for ppc/gencgc, but I haven't been able to fix it without causing further damage. 22:21:45 huh 22:25:04 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.164] has joined #lisp 22:25:46 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:19 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.38.11.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:18 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:00 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:49 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has quit [Quit: netytan] 22:30:52 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9C32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:32:41 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:54 pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-232-53-234.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:23 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:41:14 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@adsl-76-232-53-234.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:14 puchacz__ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:42:44 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:58 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7564ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:18 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:46 pixpop [~pixpop@76.232.53.234] has joined #lisp 22:45:10 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@76.232.53.234] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:22 -!- puchacz__ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:21 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.118.253.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:55 -!- Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:00 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:02:17 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 23:09:22 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 23:09:59 *p_l* notes that Android includes aref as opcode (just named differently) 23:11:05 -!- prxq [~mommer@g227029239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:43 iPac [~bubble@p54AA79E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:02 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 23:16:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:17:00 italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:56 aref or svref? 23:23:00 -!- _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-238-7.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+ssfe] 23:23:40 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 23:23:43 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:15 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-38-99.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:31:40 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:05 aref, it seems 23:33:54 ah, no,svref. Looked up 23:34:12 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.60] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:34:14 md1 [~user@85-135-169-72.adsl.slovanet.sk] has joined #lisp 23:35:21 the dalvik vm thing? 23:36:13 deepfire: yeah. Been thinking of simply generating opcodes straight from lisp 23:36:35 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:37:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:42:32 Yeah, sometimes a good VM allows for simple compilation strategies. 23:43:58 it also has interesting number of registers 23:44:11 ... "interesting"? 23:44:50 And "registers" as in GPRs" or "registers" as in on-chip storage locations accessible via instructions? 23:45:01 nyef: it's a VM :\ 23:45:18 Yeah, but you know what I mean. 23:45:39 The PPC "count" register is not a GPR, but it -is- a register. 23:45:57 Most architectures have a program-counter register, but it's very rarely a GPR. 23:46:18 it would be fun to write assembly for them, though 23:46:22 I really wonder why we still bother with registers in VMs... seems simpler to expose SSA-style than forcing regalloc that will have to be re-done for JITC anyway. 23:46:39 with 50% of an obfuscated program being pc-as-gpr modification (: 23:47:23 antifuchs: Umm... The -jump- instruction is a PC-as-GPR modification. 23:47:47 just realized that, too 23:47:58 may be needing sleep soon. 23:48:19 I wonder why RSP can't be used as a GPR though. 23:49:00 nyef: GPR 23:49:03 64k 23:49:35 "General Purpose Register". 23:51:14 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:51 tomoyuki28jp [~tomoyuki2@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:39 Definition of life: http://paste.lisp.org/display/98654 Can someone think of better definition? 23:56:46 tomoyuki28jp: Yes, but the better definition is in terms of an infinite square grid and cell birth/death rates in terms of neighboring cell populations. 23:56:59 And is a different meaning of "life". 23:57:35 nyef: I agree! 23:57:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:01 And the whole "money" thing is a canard, there are people who don't much bother with it. 23:58:22 (Do I mean "canard"? Maybe.) 23:58:33 nyef: Can you give me an example? 23:59:17 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:29 The canonical example is "hippies". 23:59:44 communards!