00:01:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:31 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:22 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:26 sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.236.24] has joined #lisp 00:07:17 thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:23 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-252-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:25 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:55 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:16:07 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.253] has joined #lisp 00:17:14 I though clbuild is where it's at now 00:17:44 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:51 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:17 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:23:55 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:58 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:49 -!- |Soulman| [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:28:25 -!- thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: http://twitter.com/thoolihan] 00:29:20 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:29:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:29:32 -!- sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.236.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:19 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-hhvuxqhfhpihywhe] has quit [Quit: rread] 00:31:44 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:32:08 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 00:32:08 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 00:33:10 sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.240.131] has joined #lisp 00:34:07 -!- kom__ is now known as kom 00:34:10 -!- kom is now known as kom_ 00:34:22 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:58 does peter stiernstrom dwell 00:35:02 here 00:35:10 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:06 rabuf` [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:03 all these rfc-N-time libs need to head to local-time, imo 00:37:48 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 00:38:28 local-time works, and it even has serialization hooks for postmodern, so simple-dates can be manipulated as LOCAL-TIME:TIMESTAMP objects 00:40:01 -!- Balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:43:40 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:11 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:37 is there a way in asdf to require non-lisp packages? say, GCC>=4, Perl, Automake, etc.? 00:45:33 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:47:40 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:54 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:52:20 hey sykopomp` 00:52:32 fusss: hello 00:52:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:52:45 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 00:53:11 fusss: what's up? 00:55:41 -!- gigamonkey [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 00:58:23 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 00:58:44 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:45 If I have a file full of s-expressions, where each s-expression is a seperate list, and I want a list-of-lists of all those s-expressions, what's the easiest way to accomplish that? read? 01:02:29 gigamonkey [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:10 mooglenorph: loop and collect, probably 01:03:14 ^ 01:04:26 mooglenorph: (loop for sexp = (read stream nil 'sentinel) until (eq sexp 'sentinel) collect sexp) 01:04:27 I think 01:04:31 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:15 So, given a stream of my file, (read) *will* correctly slurp until the sexp ends? 01:05:34 I was trying to figure this out from clhs and was stymined. 01:05:41 it will slurp one form at a time. 01:05:49 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:09 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 01:07:17 fusss: I think you can invoke makefiles, could you maybe make the checks there? 01:07:54 I know cl-sql seems to have a blend of asd and makes 01:08:46 sykopomp: works perfectly. thanks! 01:09:15 mooglenorph: np. How's life, btw? Been a while! :) 01:09:27 long enough that I didn't remember it was you when I talked to you earlier. Haha. 01:12:05 -!- gigamonkey [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:13:56 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 01:14:06 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:17:50 xellosz [~zeitx@201.242.32.7] has joined #lisp 01:18:35 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:18:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:20:56 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 01:22:09 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:22:21 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:29 any allegro graph users in here ? 01:22:56 am interested in knowing what the horizontal scalability options are for agraph 01:23:10 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:45 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:15 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:30:57 holly kamole 01:31:35 checkout parse-response in http://emarsden.chez.com/downloads/xmlrpc.lisp 01:32:09 -!- dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:32:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:33:38 Yeah, that would look much better if META-SEXP was employed instead of META. 01:34:14 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:34:56 -!- xellosz [~zeitx@201.242.32.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35:07 dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:35:32 fusss: you mean the amount of labels? 01:38:53 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:13 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 01:47:24 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 01:51:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:50 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:55:55 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56:38 sykopomp: life is fairly insane. I've re-invented myself as a theory guy (from machiene learning guy) 01:58:53 sykopomp: so I'm doing a *lot* less coding, a lot more math, but it turned out that this is what I wanted 01:59:58 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:01:09 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:01:33 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-25-19.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:02 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:03:39 gigamonkey [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:01 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:04:53 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7361c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:04 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f737ff2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:59 -!- Balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:06 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:16:44 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:11 Are there really folks who use SLIME without the REPL contrib? 02:19:35 old-school fans of ilisp? 02:19:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:47 gigamonkey: I think it's usually newbies using old documents... 02:20:22 It just seems weird to me that that'd be an optional thing. 02:20:35 If you just follow the instructions in the README you don't get the REPL. 02:20:37 maybe the current documentation should empathizes more that there's slime-fancy 02:20:42 I don't often /use/ the slime repl, but I'd certainly hate to be without it when I do. 02:21:41 i will change README 02:22:39 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:47 -!- gigamonkey [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:23:07 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 02:23:13 -!- gigamonkey` is now known as gigamonkey 02:25:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:46 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:47 gigamonkey: i've added a paragraph about slime-fancy to README 02:27:11 Cool. 02:27:23 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:27:57 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 02:27:57 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter] 02:28:03 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 02:28:26 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:59 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:52 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 02:30:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:44 stassats`: I had to leave out slime-fancy for some ACL-related reason and I can attest to the fact that slime config gets puzzling really fast if you have to do that. 02:34:52 i'd be glad to help to resolve these ACL problems 02:35:24 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:41 stassats`: It was actually a failed attempt to get at the ACL debugger directly, without going through SLDB. 02:35:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:35:57 stassats`: tcr tried to help me make it work, but we failed. 02:36:15 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:36:58 i don't think that's related to slime-fancy, or it is? 02:36:58 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:37:09 -!- Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:38:56 stassats`: I believe slime-debug is one of the things you get with slime-fancy. 02:39:10 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:39:54 you mean SLDB by slime-debug? no, sldb is in slime.el 02:40:08 stassats`: That would account for why this didn't work, then! 02:40:49 stassats`: anyway, that was the reason, IIRC, that I turned off slime-fancy. 02:41:47 i believe you can turn off sldb by setting (setf *debugger-hook* nil) 02:43:33 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:09 but it resets itself 02:44:10 stassats`: We tried that, but it didn't work. I need to knock off RSN, but if I remember tomorrow, i will pull an update from CVS and retest with *debugger-hook* nil. The last time we tried this, TCR and I concluded that it didn't work. Sorry, I don't have good notes about what happened. 02:44:16 Oh, maybe that was it. 02:44:42 it works one time, and then it resets itself 02:44:45 The problem is that ACL's debugger is more capable than SLIME lets it be. You can do a lot at the REPL in the debugger... 02:45:46 i noted that, maybe when i will be bored i'd look at how one can disable SLDB 02:46:09 stassats`: OK. If there's any testing I should do, I'll be happy to try sometime. Good night! 02:46:10 Good morning! 02:46:10 beach, memo from vng: Many thanks for your advices! 02:46:48 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:48:32 so, conditions and classes live in separate names spaes? 02:48:34 spaces 02:48:48 i got no warning redefining a class into a condition 02:49:04 one name space. 02:49:39 ccl is stringent about redefining a struct into a class, but oblivious to the redefinition of a class into a condition 02:49:40 (I assume by "classes" you mean DEFCLASS'ed classes?) 02:50:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:50:36 yeah 02:50:52 (class-of (make-condition 'fault)) ==> # 02:51:01 It's possible that conditions could in fact be standard-objects ... as you see. 02:51:13 so, can I (signal (make-instance 'fault)) then? 02:51:19 clhs condition 02:51:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_cnd.htm 02:51:26 Yes, but not portably, I believe. 02:54:13 yeah, seems so 02:54:19 at least in ccl 03:00:53 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-68-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:01:35 SBCL seems to accept this: (loop do (print "hello") repeat 2) 03:01:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 03:02:42 sbcl is not strict about loop 03:02:52 Yes, I see that. 03:04:14 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:15 it also accepts (loop until (fridayp) for i to 10 ...) 03:04:46 Ah, but not (loop do (print "hello") for i from 1 to 2) 03:04:58 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:06:54 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 03:07:48 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:23 ls 03:08:41 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.90.184] has joined #lisp 03:12:07 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-68-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:14:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 03:15:13 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:16:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.90.184] has left #lisp 03:18:04 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:18:19 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:18:35 -!- Devon7 [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:18:53 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:24 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:20:03 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:20:37 gigamonkey: no such file or directory. 03:20:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-68-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:43 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: saikat] 03:21:14 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:55 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:34 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has left #lisp 03:24:54 u a funy man stassats` 03:24:59 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:26:08 stassats`: heh. I didn't even notice I had done that. 03:26:15 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:21 -!- sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.240.131] has left #lisp 03:31:15 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:51 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:54 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:14 -!- rabuf` [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:22 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:36:25 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:15 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:09 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 03:40:23 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 03:40:50 -!- jan247 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[~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:11:23 -!- wolgo|away is now known as wolgo 05:12:58 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:31 -!- Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:42 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:13:45 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:00 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:18:26 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:18:26 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 05:19:26 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:11 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 05:20:25 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 05:23:31 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:25:27 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:28:30 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 05:28:44 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 05:29:42 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:29:49 i am very close to forking other people's code over aesthetics 05:30:02 don't use XPath when DOM would do 05:30:49 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:19 issat closure or what? 05:31:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:31:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:06 JuanDaugherty: moi? 05:32:17 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:28 y 05:33:04 (i.e. the package) 05:33:09 not closure, i don't hack on lisp implementations, i have a life 05:33:29 JuanDaugherty: i will have permission to bitch about it after i hear from the author 05:33:30 Isn't closure a web browser? 05:33:31 i meant the xml package, may have name wrong 05:33:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-202-69.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:33:54 prolly a lot of shit is named "closure" 05:33:57 JuanDaugherty: just some xml-rpc lib 05:34:05 ah 05:34:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:25 cmm [~cmm@109.64.202.69] has joined #lisp 05:34:37 i like how my jibe against compiler hackers went unnoticed :-) 05:34:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:35:25 almost as if they had something else to do than hang around on irc 05:35:50 funny how "having a life" refers to trivial personal stuff of no general interest 05:36:15 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 05:36:18 abeppu [~aaron@204.14.159.31] has joined #lisp 05:36:30 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:36:57 -!- abeppu [~aaron@204.14.159.31] has quit [Client Quit] 05:37:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:38:08 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-60-142.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:02 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:41:05 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:43 JuanDaugherty: the have-life excuse is thrown around by people who .. GAAAH, this conversation don't want .. 05:43:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:44:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:15 *fusss* likes the idea of fixing a problem in a library. not the idea of rewriting it. 05:44:46 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:45:00 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:45:59 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:18 What you need is source level patch support. 05:46:26 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:37 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:50 Something like chapters and sections with the ability to specify that code X belongs at the end of section A in chapter B. 05:47:13 Then you could inject macros to fix things. 05:47:22 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:47:37 something like a tool that takes the difference between two files, and applies that .. "delta" to older files 05:47:48 go on, we might be on to something .. 05:48:21 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 You need something more structured than a three way merge for this to be reliable. 05:48:43 attila_lendvai: did you get my email on local-time? 05:48:47 If the author can provide some basic structure -- e.g., cut points, in the document, then it gets simpler. 05:49:17 fusss, i didn't receive lt related mail in the last few days 05:49:23 attila_lendvai: that thing could you a little loving. three versions of it that i have on my machines are broken in win32/ccl in three different ways 05:49:40 I CC'ed yu and dlowe 05:50:13 fusss, are you Mahmud? (murmurs something about irc nicks... :) 05:50:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:41 attila_lendvai: yes 05:51:07 i always sign my emails as - fusss though 05:51:19 i have a rather long TODO about l-t which involves a big-ish refactor. until i get there i'm pretty much in parking position... 05:51:36 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:52 there's a big confusion in l-t about timestamps and dates. many operations simply have no meaning on a timestamp which currently try to behave sanely 05:52:21 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:26 attila_lendvai: the timezone stuff was tricky. the most important function for rereading the timezone db was not even exported 05:52:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:52:58 -!- wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:53:27 also, a way to print hours in 24-hour/military format 05:53:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:54:00 wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 05:54:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:54:44 attila_lendvai: and last but not least. clozure win32 testing. ccl lacks gettimeofday; i see you have added a new #+(and ccl windows) but that doesn't work as well. instead of that FFI, use clozure's internal ccl::lisp-gettimeofday 05:54:46 fusss, i'm willing to push non-controversial patches to the official repo, but if i work on l-t then i'll initiate the cleanup before anything else. (but we have a deadline, so everything else is down on the list) 05:55:13 funny how (unless I am mistaken) nobody has really done anything interesing with merge except darcs and that generally a failure 05:55:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:37 attila_lendvai: I get it. any library of choise for xml-rpc? 05:55:39 fusss, could you send darcs patches that work on ccl? then i can test on sbcl linux and push it... (darcs record, darcs send -o /tmp/x.patch) 05:55:56 attila_lendvai: ok 05:56:10 right not i have a beast to gut. brb. 05:56:14 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:56:31 fusss, not really. we have some soap stuff, but it's not enough to be a library... 05:56:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:56:46 attila_lendvai: i wrote cl-scum for soap 05:57:12 i am very close to absorbing someone else's xml-rpc code by the end of the day 05:57:31 gatlin [~gatlin@66.112.248.132] has joined #lisp 05:57:45 does your soap stuff parse xml types into lisp objects? 05:58:11 fusss, i wonder in which way is soap more than a flexible xml parser and xml emitter? 05:58:24 mine hands the user a dom object of the result and tell him construct his own objects (except for Fault objects, which are handled, packaged into a condition and thrown in his face) 05:58:26 i use fexml to parse it into clos objects 05:58:30 I'm new to Common Lisp and can't figure out this error using clisp: I was trying to write a function to count the number of discrepancies between 2 strings, and even THIS gives an error: (defun score (target shot) (0)) 05:58:47 the error I receive is SYSTEM::%EXPAND-FORM: invalid form (0) 05:58:50 and it's because of score 05:59:02 gatlin: 0 is not a function 05:59:04 0 is not a function 05:59:07 :( 05:59:09 gatlin: (0) means you are trying to call the function 0 05:59:14 stassats: echo off 05:59:16 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:32 oy, thanks! but I want to return the value 0, how would I do that? Just write 0 05:59:38 yes 05:59:41 parenthesis in lisp aren't arbitrary 05:59:44 fusss, i'm not completely happy with flexml, but it's good enough with multiple dispatch (it can't restructure the input, it's basically a dom with typed nodes) 06:00:01 unlike in some languages 06:00:16 stassats et al: I really appreciate the prompt feedback :) 06:00:20 minion: flexml 06:00:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``flexml''. 06:00:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:30 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:01 http://common-lisp.net/project/fetter/darcs/verrazano/src/flexml.lisp 06:01:33 minion: fetter? 06:01:34 fetter: The end of the page was reached before a definition was found in http://www.cliki.net/fetter 06:01:53 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:28 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:05:31 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:05:34 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:19 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jvcjqeronaocakqs] has joined #lisp 06:09:27 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:10:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:00 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:12:39 -!- maden_ [~brookeGar@dsl-152-223.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:44 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 06:13:10 fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:14:35 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 06:15:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:15 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:17:30 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:18:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:19:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Client Quit] 06:19:46 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.57] has joined #lisp 06:19:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:21:37 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 06:24:39 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:20 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:25:42 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:26:59 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:26 -!- ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:09 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:28:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:29:29 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:17 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:39 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:46 ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:52 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:21 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:37:57 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:39:21 -!- gatlin [~gatlin@66.112.248.132] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:40:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:41:22 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:44:21 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:47:02 antifuchs's cxml-rpc is cool 06:49:05 is it better than s-xml-rpc? 06:50:43 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 06:51:03 *stassats* is using s-xml-rpc for interaction with rtorrent 06:51:10 -!- hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:01 hrm, what is the order on sbcl? first inlining, then compiler macros? 06:55:21 fusss, this is the canonical flexml: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-l10n-cl-l10n;a=headblob;f=/flexml.lisp 06:55:38 although i try to keep the one in verrazano also uptodate 06:56:20 AntiSpamMeta: stassats s-xml-rpc gave me a lot of headache 06:56:32 antifuchs: herep 06:57:07 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:38 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.79] has joined #lisp 06:57:46 i'm not stressing it, works fine for my simple needs 06:58:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:30 MetalDust_flopZz [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:00:12 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:13 *stassats* wonders how hard it'd be to do audio processing in lisp 07:00:34 -!- mizai [~matthew@164.107.202.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:01:38 stassats: not at all 07:01:46 -!- wolgo is now known as wolgo|sleep 07:01:48 DSP stuff is pretty straightforward 07:02:16 i have zerop knowledge 07:02:47 i'm just tired of adjusting subtitles and i wanted to automate it 07:03:12 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:03:47 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:03:50 stassats: you sure you want to adjust audio and not the subtitles? 07:04:14 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:04:25 jdz: i need somehow to know where to adjust them 07:04:48 good morning 07:04:48 stassats: better mess with a CLI utility like ffmpeg then 07:05:54 stassats: oh, you want to figure out the offset automatically. sounds a bit challenging ;) 07:06:49 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:07:33 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-174-37.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:07:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:06 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-odiscmlkhgweizbd] has joined #lisp 07:11:00 mizai [~matthew@164.107.202.12] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:37 stassats: try using s-xml-rpc with any xml-rpc enpoint like http://foo.bar/baz.quux 07:12:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:12:58 it trips over protocol scheme, subdomain, paths, and extensions 07:13:04 broken URL processing 07:13:48 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:14:03 attila_lendvai: happen to have a complex cxml-rpc example somewhere lying around? 07:14:11 i wanna serialize a struct 07:15:00 fusss, not really. all our usages were simple. also, the way we generate xml requires a non-trivial lib (hu.dwim.quasi-quote) 07:15:25 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 07:16:52 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:32 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:24:35 -!- MetalDust_flopZz [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:25:01 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:02 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:27 tsuru` [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:59 -!- Intensity [9VHvCTrdFx@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:37:41 stassats: another thing for the slime-threads-list thingie 07:38:01 stassats: you have to disable undo history, otherwise on long run you'll exceed it 07:38:14 noted 07:38:26 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:39:22 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:55 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:40:46 fusss: why use XML? 07:42:23 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:58 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:11 -!- qebab_ is now known as qebab 07:44:17 Ralith: because the rest of the world does? 07:44:58 i have decided my patched up version of rpc4cl is the best xml-rpc client out there 07:45:27 iff i remove the xpath dependence by the end of the evening, that is 07:46:04 uh, weren't you a cxml-rpc fan two pages of scrollback earlier? 07:46:15 What's better rabout rpc4cl? 07:46:28 Also, what's wrong about using XPath? (Which XPath library is it using?) 07:46:38 lichtblau: show me how to encode anything more than a simple integer with cxml-rpc and i will be sold again 07:46:51 lichtblau: plexibus-xpath 07:47:04 cxml-dom is better, imo 07:47:50 |Soulman| [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:15 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 07:54:10 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:43 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 07:57:28 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:58:51 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:59:32 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:00:04 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:01:30 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 08:02:46 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:03:11 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:38 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:03 daniel [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:10 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 08:11:27 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:14:12 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:53 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:31 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:21:48 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:24:25 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:28:35 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 08:34:20 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:36:50 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:39 tcr: i'm almost done with list-threads update, but i can't figure why the point isn't moving when the window isn't active 08:37:49 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:38:21 hm what do you mean? perhaps also paste the code 08:39:10 if i do (goto-char n) in a buffer, but the window in which that buffer is displayed isn't active, it doesn't do anything 08:39:21 that said, I'm not really savy in how Emacs maintains buffer, windows, excursion, point etc. I'm also often bitten... always wanted to actually read through the manual on these part but never came to it 08:39:47 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:47 there's some slime-ensure-buffer-position or similiar 08:39:49 alright, that's what i'm currently doing, RTMing 08:39:59 which somehow manages to do it 08:40:09 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:38 slime-show-buffer-position 08:41:16 just found it 08:42:48 though it's doing something fishy 08:42:58 splits the window for some reason 08:43:37 yes that's the display-buffer second argument T 08:44:02 that's because it makes sense to do so in the context where this function is used so far 08:47:04 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:47:55 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:55 stassats, a buffer can have several views with different carets, so you need to specify which window's caret should move 08:49:09 attila_lendvai: yeah, solved with (set-window-point (get-buffer-window) (point)) 08:49:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:55 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:50:03 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-60-142.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:50:30 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:50:33 bloody xemacs, it needs (get-buffer-window (current-buffer)) 08:51:48 *stassats* is unhappy that some people are using slime with xemacs 08:53:00 stassats: I sent a mail regarding buffer name canonicalization. If it passes through, please implement it :-) 08:54:00 I have some memories that I actually did something like that in past but it was restored back. But maybe I remember wrong. 08:55:19 also, sbcl implementation of receieve-if conses like hell 08:55:45 because of with-timeout around condition-wait 08:57:01 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:12 How you notice? 08:57:24 (time (sleep 10)) 08:58:16 it renders TIME unusable for measuring consing if it runs more than a couple of seconds 08:58:31 very good point and I always wondered where sleep conses 08:58:43 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:45 I'm gonna fix that once your threads stuff is in 08:59:17 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:59:17 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:19 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 09:08:14 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:11:01 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 09:13:25 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:16:54 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:17:43 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:18:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:44 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:25:46 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:19 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:30:12 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:31:27 tcr: finally committed 09:34:40 ok 09:35:36 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:59 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:36:19 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:36:44 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:37:02 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:17 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:33 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:27 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 09:42:50 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:43:05 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 09:44:29 good morning 09:44:43 stassats: I wrote cxml-rpc in order to talk to rtorrent (-: 09:44:58 stassats: the one advantage it has over s-xml-rpc is that it allows you to drop a few outdated dependencies 09:45:44 stassats: also, I heard it's a bit faster 09:45:46 which is a pretty big advantage in this case, considering s-xml-rpc's dependencies :) 09:45:48 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:49 but that may or may not apply to you (: 09:45:54 see (-: 09:46:01 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:32 i see, maybe i'll try it 09:46:37 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:05 cool. mind that the syntax for passing arguments is slightly different 09:47:11 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:47:17 (but I hope I got it right (-:) 09:47:28 Oh, actually, s-xml-rpc's dependencies aren't THAT scary. I know I had some problem with it, and abandoned it for cxml-rpc 09:47:52 heh. world domination soon (: 09:48:10 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-jxxrbnpghnzewkpt] has joined #lisp 09:48:12 (provided the world waits up and changes all its apis to xml-rpc, which doesn't seem /that/ likely nowadays) 09:48:14 (thankfully) 09:48:51 what's it today? 09:49:31 I suppose json is doing pretty good 09:49:48 which is great, because I think it's a very nice format (: 09:49:55 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:14 Facebook's thrift thingy sees some use, too 09:50:23 though it's not suitable for publicly accessible services 09:50:27 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:32 thankfully, SOAP seems to be going away 09:51:28 oh yes 09:51:56 i use swank-rpc 09:55:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:57:22 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:00:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:06:10 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 10:07:42 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:07:48 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 10:07:59 Say a macro pushes to a global variable available at compile-time. Is there a way to maintain that data so it's available at load/execution time, too? 10:08:40 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:50 cfasls? 10:08:55 tcr: I asked this a while back, nobody seemed to know, but the code I wrote that did it seemed to Just Work. 10:09:09 probably not portable though. 10:10:31 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:38 tcr: Have a macro-expansion turn it into source code? 10:13:36 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:08 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:29 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:38 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:44 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-185-111.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:19:05 skeledrew 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has joined #lisp 11:09:41 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 11:11:06 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 11:16:56 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:18:47 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:21:57 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:22 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:24:52 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cpzgunnrrduhvlgs] has left #lisp 11:28:41 is it abnormal to write loop keywords as :keywords? like :finally :collect 11:28:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:28:58 i'm seeing this in someone's code but i thought they were explicitly not keywords. 11:29:13 They are name designators. 11:29:23 A keyword is a suitable name designator. 11:29:30 ah. thanks ok :) 11:29:44 i actually kind of like it because then they stick out visually / highlighting wise 11:29:52 Actually the magic word might be a bit different. 11:32:25 i don't like them because they stick out too much 11:32:42 I don't much care for them either. 11:33:13 (loop #:for x #:to 10 #:do (print x)) 11:33:33 Fax would at this point begin a long discussion of the superiority of using for x := 1 as it indicated assignment rather than equality 11:34:25 Well ... in a proper functional language ... :) 11:38:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:41:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:43:59 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:30 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:45:10 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:46:17 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 11:46:21 -!- palter 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host closed the connection] 11:51:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:01 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:52:15 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:46 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:53:26 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:57 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 this might be interesting for some of you: http://hyperpolyglot.wikidot.com/lisp 11:54:26 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 11:57:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:57:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:57:01 -!- daniel 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12:06:31 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:09:07 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:10:04 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:10:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:11:10 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:22 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 12:15:31 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:18:05 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 12:20:48 Good afternoon! 12:22:02 hello spiaggia 12:23:10 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fykhyymurlfnxrhb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:36 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-yiedwdoorvodhmzd] has joined #lisp 12:24:40 mvilleneuve: What's up? 12:25:34 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:48 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:23 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:31:50 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:06 spiaggia: not much, wondering about a bug in my type inference code... :) 12:35:50 spiaggia: it looks like you're making good progress on SICL, that's great! 12:36:02 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:36:04 how are multidimensional arrays implemented in common lisp? what makes them "true"? 12:36:11 mvilleneuve: It's never enough. 12:37:22 udzinari: They are a row-major order sequence of cells. A few multiplications and additions convert a sequence of indices to a row-major index. 12:37:22 I am reading array.lisp (sbcl) but it is kind of hard to grasp for me at this level of knowledge 12:37:37 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.203] has joined #lisp 12:38:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:39:37 fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:09 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:59 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 12:43:21 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:43:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:44:04 mvilleneuve: Are you implementing any known algorithm for type inferencing? 12:45:40 udzinari: some languages simulate multidimensional arrays by having nested one-dimensional array structure. 12:45:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:46:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:19 udzinari: CL doesn't simulate them that way. maybe that's why you could consider it "true". 12:46:46 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:42 Blkt [~user@160.80.129.101] has joined #lisp 12:50:52 Xach: ty, but I do not immediately understand the benefit of not implementing it with Iliffe vector, I guess I should grok the source & read up more. 12:51:16 What is an Iliffe vector? 12:51:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliffe_vector 12:52:37 udzinari: CL has the freedom to implement it that way, and the necessity of hiding that detail from the user. 12:53:03 udzinari: in some languages that simulate multidimensional arrays, only convention keeps things consistent. 12:53:41 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:44 Xach: I think 15.1.1.3.2.1 forbids it 12:55:02 anyway, implementing displayed arrays would become very tricky 12:55:12 mal__: I wonder if you could obey that restriction by making all the relevant functions appear as if they worked that way, even while doing something different underneath. (Though that might be prohibitively inefficient because of the CL features.) 12:55:14 udzinari: I am guessing that such a vector requires memory accesses which used be cheap while saving multiplications which used to be expensive. Furthermore, the compiler can often strngh-reduce the base address for the innermost dimension, reducing most index calculations to an offset. 12:56:29 a sufficiently smart compiler(TM) could even autovectorize and automatically distribute loops over processors. some fortran compilers are wizards at that. 12:56:46 Harag [~Harag@41.56.10.42] has joined #lisp 12:57:08 Xach: you probably could but I don't think any sane implementation would 12:57:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:58:02 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:58:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:58:52 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:01 ReiniUrban [~chatzilla@212-183-52-84.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 sellout 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[~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 13:18:41 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 13:20:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.96.1] 13:20:28 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:20:42 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:49 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:46 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:11 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:22:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:22:22 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-25-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:22:22 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 13:22:23 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 13:22:31 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:35 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 spiaggia: not exactly, although I suspect my current implementation to be much closer to algorithms such as Milner's than my previous one 13:23:50 -!- palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:24:04 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:24:42 Joreji [~thomas@77-184.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:25:14 (I forgot pretty much everything about lambda calculus, and I was unable to read Milner's article entirely) 13:26:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has 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[~merl@188-22-22-133.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:25 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:35 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has left #lisp 14:02:11 -!- Blkt`` [~user@160.80.129.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:18 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-3.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:02:25 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:02:54 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jvcjqeronaocakqs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:30 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:37 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:11:40 yangsx [~yangsx@123.120.41.89] has joined #lisp 14:12:30 alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 14:14:11 Fare: therep? 14:15:09 pers [~user@p5B34C37A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:22 prxq [~mommer@f052030164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 hi 14:17:17 is ignore-errors supposed to ignore type errors? 14:17:58 sure 14:18:12 ignore-errors is almost always too big a shield to use 14:18:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:23 use ignore-some-conditions in alexandria, preferably 14:19:41 well, it does not do that here. Hm. 14:20:09 In my use case, it is about big enough :-) 14:20:41 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:21:25 i wonder why those type errors are not ignored. 14:22:22 maybe because they're a) not type *errors* at all, b) they're signaled in a context where the underlaying handler-case of ignore-errors is not active 14:23:01 does (handler-case (foof) (condition (c) c)) return the condition? 14:23:48 (ignore-errors (invoke-debugger (make-condition 'error))) 14:28:55 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:29:36 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:50 ejs [~eugen@178-102-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:39 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:20 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-3.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 14:35:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:36:54 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:37:17 hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #lisp 14:38:05 dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 14:38:47 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:17 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:41:18 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:29 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:34 What's the best way to create a mask with specific bits turned on? At the moment I use a bunch of (setf (ldb (byte 1 n)) 1) 14:42:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:43:39 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.34] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 tcr: #b...? 14:44:58 tcr: (setf byte (logior byte (ash 1 n))) 14:45:05 Don't know which makes better code 14:45:14 I'm gonna check 14:45:46 I use the (setf (ldb ...) ...) form 14:46:52 Depends if you know the values of n at compile time 14:47:23 If you do, it's a single logior with a constant 14:48:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-184.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:52:42 brown [~user@nat/google/x-ktmnloaiorwymfmu] has joined #lisp 14:53:10 -!- brown is now known as Guest80740 14:53:26 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 14:53:32 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:34 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 14:57:04 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:57:49 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.79] has quit [Quit: off] 14:57:53 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:58:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 14:58:59 I'm looking for ways to improve the efficiency of the SBCL image on my server, I've just noticed sb-ext:purify, if I use this will it be necessary/possible for me periodically force it to check those previously marked areas for garbage 14:59:43 The reason I thinking I might need to do this is because the image includes hunchentoot, maybe this doesn't matter 14:59:58 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:00:06 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:47 Hi, I'm having trouble with Unicode characters in SBCL. To rule out Slime/Swank/Emacs problems, I'm working straight from the cli REPL, and when I do (defvar *a* "?") (where the '?' is http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2014/index.htm) I get a "debugger invoked on a UNBOUND-VARIABLE" condition. Similarly, trying to 'setf' a previously declared special variable to the same char yields a 'odd number of args to SETF' 15:00:47 condition. My sb-impl::*default-external-format* is already :utf-8 15:00:53 Guthur: you noticed it, did you read its docstring? 15:01:12 stassats: Manual 15:01:46 It was in efficiency hacks, hehe 15:02:21 I just notice there is a lot of SBCL CPU time on the server 15:02:21 Guthur: the manual is build from dosctrings partially 15:02:35 And I am looking for ways to reduce that 15:02:56 in case you didn't notice "This function is a no-op on platforms using the generational garbage collector (x86, x86-64, ppc)." 15:03:52 -!- rurban [~chatzilla@212-183-52-84.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:01 Oops. I mistakenly read that as just PPC for some reason 15:04:07 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:11 Probably just really wanted it 15:04:26 Doesn't really work on much then.... 15:04:31 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:57 MetalDust_flopZz [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:08 -!- MetalDust_flopZz is now known as MetalDust 15:05:13 well, generational GC does that by itself, in theory 15:05:53 stassats: Any idea on ways to improve the efficiency of the SBCL image 15:06:18 do less, cons less? 15:06:29 Thats the thing it was doing nothing 15:06:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:06:59 profile and see how much that nothing is doing 15:06:59 Guthur: it might be doing something if it's using CPU. 15:07:07 I only went into turn on hunchentoot this morning and noticed that SBCL was top of the CPU time 15:07:14 Guthur: you can interrupt threads to dump a stack trace somewhere if you want to see what kind of something it's doing. 15:07:33 Guthur: are you using swank? 15:07:41 ya I have swank going 15:07:51 I suppose thats the culprit 15:07:53 well, here's your "nothing" 15:08:06 Hehe yep suppose os 15:08:07 so 15:08:22 it conses like mad all the time on SBCL 15:08:43 -!- ejs [~eugen@178-102-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:08:45 umm that is problematic 15:09:14 I want to have SBCL in the background and the only way I have found to achieve that is to use nohup 15:09:41 But from what I understand that means the only way I can now access the image is by using swank 15:09:49 -!- yangsx [~yangsx@123.120.41.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:07 If I turn it off I can not turn it on again, umm quite a pickle 15:10:19 try with the newest swank 15:10:39 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-odiscmlkhgweizbd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:53 stassats: Will give it a go, cheers 15:12:25 ejs [~eugen@178-102-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:48 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-30.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:16:18 yep, with tcr's todays changes it conses much less 15:16:32 stassats: Awesome 15:16:40 hehe just when I want it 15:16:48 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:57 How very accommodating of him 15:17:21 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:18:04 I do think it a very worthwhile improvement overall though. 15:18:15 bah it was a trivial change, and it was actually stassats who pointed it out 15:18:38 Slime is becoming more green 15:18:40 hehe 15:20:09 stassats: I'd have liked something which shows the build plan of an asdf system earlier today, maybe you're interested in figuring that out 15:20:10 Well time for a bit of server maintenance, cheers stassats, and tcr. 15:20:54 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:04 I really ought to write some slime contrib to display graphs 15:23:00 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:23:36 i don't think i'm much interested in it 15:25:31 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:11 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has left #lisp 15:32:56 cmsimon_ [~chatzilla@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:21 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:37 smanek: what is the unbound variable? *A* or something else? 15:34:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:34 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:34 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:44 -!- cmsimon_ is now known as cmsimon 15:35:51 smanek: cut-and-paste from http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2014/browsertest.htm works for me locally 15:36:14 -!- cmsimon is now known as Guest20952 15:36:29 -!- Guest20952 [~chatzilla@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:00 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 15:39:54 Guthur, you can't use screen or detachtty? 15:40:23 billstclair: trying to keep the process as slim as possible 15:40:31 detachtty is pretty slim 15:40:45 Though I don't know numbers off the top of my head 15:41:00 Of course, nohup is maximally thin 15:41:14 Umm it might be slimmer than having swank running all the time though 15:41:23 detach that is 15:41:32 Still, considering the size of a lisp image, I doubt even screen will make much of a dent 15:42:16 My servers memory is only 256mb, so every little bit counts, hehe 15:42:19 hum. 15:42:19 Fare, memo from rpg: I must be out early this morning, but I'd like to thrash out the ASDF optional dependency issue with you at some time. 15:42:25 Guthur: ouch 15:42:30 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-157.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 Well the swap more or less doubles it, but its not good 15:43:15 blandest [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has joined #lisp 15:43:27 Fare: I'm off in a minute, but would like to get this worked out for ASDF 2. Seems like TEST-OP and DOC-OP are compelling reasons for optional dependencies. 15:43:30 Guthur: here's a nickel, kid, get yourself a real server :) 15:43:33 256? that's plenty! cliki runs in 128 :P 15:43:39 Its an inexpensive VPS, just getting my feet wet 15:43:52 Ya, I haven't hit the wall yet 15:44:01 My current screen uses 988K of RAM, 2748K of VM 15:44:38 rpg: in my world, every system would define what's in in an unambiguous, context-free way. 15:44:46 I can actually run SBCL+hunchentoot, and Postfix+Courier+Dovecot+Spamassassin+Postgrey+Amavis mail server 15:44:56 oh through Mysql in there as well 15:44:59 throw* 15:45:03 and you'd have either :foo and :foo-all or :foo-core and :foo to distinguish between the two 15:45:08 Fare: But it's not unambiguous! For a developer, TEST-OP and DOC-OP are essential, but for a user, it's a nuisance. 15:45:20 The Mailserver dwarfs the lisp image 15:45:28 so the developer would require foo-dev or foo-with-bells-and-whistles 15:45:35 Fare: That just craps up the space with gobs of decoy .asd files for the user to try to figure out. 15:45:58 if there's a convention, the user knows that foo-dev is not for him 15:46:11 just like there are libfoo and libfoo-dev packages for debian 15:46:44 Personally, I don't like to have my filesystem gunked up with gobs of non-independent .asds.... 15:46:52 why not just have foo foo-test and foo-doc asd's ? 15:47:01 where foo-test and foo-doc depend on foo ? 15:47:26 Fare: I suppose; that's pretty much what I do now. Messy. 15:47:35 or where doc-op requires :my-cl-doc 15:48:04 You end up with (in-order-to (doc-op (doc-op foo-doc))). I suppose that's ok. 15:48:06 I'm open to suggestions, but "optional" dependencies where it's unclear where or when the option will be exercised is messier IMHO. 15:48:20 we could introduce a simpler syntax for THAT 15:48:29 OK, wfm. More important to just get this out of our lives... 15:49:35 :documentation-depends-on (:my-cl-doc-system) 15:49:41 I'm convinced. Off to gym. Will try to squeeze in some doc time, but that may not happen till I'm locked into a plane somewhere. Back later.... 15:51:27 -!- blandest [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:34 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 15:57:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:58 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:59 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 16:08:30 -!- alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:08:46 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-195-157.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:09:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:53 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:53 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:50 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:14:56 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-144-217.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:15:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:16:12 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-10-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:16:18 Good evening! 16:16:23 -!- ejs [~eugen@178-102-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 16:18:24 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 16:20:02 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:21:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:24:25 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:25:16 wow, it seems like one fuzzy completion leads to 3x GC 16:25:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:26:00 i reduced its consing slightly recently 16:26:19 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:27:57 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:30:41 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:31:27 parsing &optional parameters in SBCL does cons some 16:31:38 but why? 16:32:26 I think it creates a closure for that internally 16:34:19 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:35:43 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:36:43 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:50 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ehfongserxlxaqxc] has joined #lisp 16:36:53 stassats: parsing &key parameters conses some; parsing &optional should not cons. 16:38:01 i just replaced (y &optional (x (foo y))) with just &optional x and consing went down 16:38:18 with (let ((x (or x (foo y)))) inside) 16:39:52 I think your measurements are not stable; if you look at the disassembly, it doesn't cons. 16:44:51 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:53 doh, it was profiled before, then i redifined it and it started to cons lens without profiling 16:46:20 heh 16:46:39 -!- wolgo|sleep is now known as wolgo 16:47:19 hi 16:48:35 I really don't understand why they made ~/ the way they did 16:48:59 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:49:03 it strikes me as far superior to specify that ~/ excepts _as argument_ a function which is called 16:49:11 accepts 16:50:40 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:53:17 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-30.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:34 tcr:format is but a defun away :) 16:54:35 Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-199-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:53 ~/call-function/ 16:56:30 nope 16:57:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:57:29 ~v/call/ may actually work but that has the nasty consequence to take the format-functions argument before the format function 17:00:02 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 à la forth 17:01:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:01:25 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 -!- frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:03:36 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:07:10 ryepup [~user@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:09:21 alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 nipra_ [~nipra@115.118.144.209] has joined #lisp 17:09:48 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 17:09:53 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:11:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: run run] 17:11:54 screen is awesome. I can play nethack at work 17:11:56 woot 17:12:32 rdd` [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:12:57 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:18 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 17:13:38 tcr: is the consing still that bad today's cvs checkout? 17:15:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:18 it still conses on idle, but ten times less 17:17:29 varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:18:18 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:13 great! 17:19:16 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:04 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 17:24:10 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:24:38 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:04 it's not like it's recent behaviour... you freaked them pretty much out, stassats 17:29:59 blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has joined #lisp 17:31:11 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 17:32:04 -!- dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:33:00 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:33:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:57 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:34:18 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:34 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:40 -!- sellout [~greg@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:45:01 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:57 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:46:06 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50:41 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:10 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54:50 -!- palter_ [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter_] 17:54:51 -!- palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter_] 17:56:57 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:01 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-241.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:58:49 alama_ [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 18:02:13 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:47 -!- alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:30 -!- alama_ [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:12 Harag [~Harag@41.56.19.167] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 err` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 18:10:42 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has left #lisp 18:11:25 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12:12 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 18:12:23 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 18:15:44 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:27 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082D113.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:54 kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has joined #lisp 18:19:23 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:35 Hello all. 18:19:45 hola 18:20:07 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.100.204] has joined #lisp 18:20:46 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:23 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:32 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@93-80-199-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:22:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:05 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 18:24:13 yello nyef, err` 18:25:00 (greets everyone) 18:25:58 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:40 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:21 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:30:59 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.136.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31:00 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:59 -!- blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:32:59 xinming [~hyy@125.109.254.118] has joined #lisp 18:34:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:18 hello nyef, hello LaPingvino 18:35:27 hello :) 18:35:30 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 *nyef* got a system with a flat-panel display. 18:35:58 Now if I can just get it to work right... 18:37:43 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:38:29 palter__ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:52 -!- palter__ [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter__] 18:39:53 -!- palter__ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:45 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 18:43:37 nyef: which os do you plan to use? 18:44:14 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8982.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:24 Given that the current OSX install is acting weird, and I don't have a copy of the install CD, I'm thinking linux. 18:45:04 benny [~benny@i577A3618.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:29 jao [~jao@6.Red-88-18-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:34 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 is the hardware from Apple? 18:46:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:23 Yes. Power Macintosh G5. 18:47:13 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:47:13 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:47:13 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 18:47:26 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:47:27 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 linux is a sound choice ;) 18:48:10 GNU/Linux 18:48:16 ;-) 18:48:23 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 18:49:43 *nyef* is -really- hoping that the lame behavior of this system is software-related. 18:50:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:50:44 i'm running ubuntu 10.04 beta oon a G4 with fair results. 18:51:06 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:51:20 My current plan is 32-bit debian, a 64-bit kernel, and a 64-bit debian chroot. 18:51:48 why not just a 64bit debian? 18:52:00 Because it's not listed as being supported? 18:52:10 huh? 18:52:25 oh, sorry, G5 18:52:38 Yeah, exactly. PPC64. 18:53:30 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:55:49 Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:58:48 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 18:58:56 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has quit [Quit: billitch] 19:00:15 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:46 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:03 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.100.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:48 erjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:02:55 marklarr [~user@173-30-20-80.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:30 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:04:32 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-199-12.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:25 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:06:13 -!- varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:06:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.202.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:09:58 -!- prxq [~mommer@f052030164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:10:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:14 do european homes use 8ft (~2.43m) ceiling height? 19:14:41 francogrex [~user@180.92-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:15:30 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:15:51 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:16:16 where i live, 2.2 is the minimum for new buildings, 2.4 is recommended (and very common) 19:16:46 continental europe? 19:16:56 because in England they need that height because of all the royal guards 19:20:45 cool, thanks 19:23:24 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:23:38 user3479 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:35 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 19:26:00 Mornin' all. I'm hoping someone might be able to help me: is there a way to define a keyword (hope I'm getting the term right) programmatically? for example: if a string "PASDF" is passed to a function, id like to push '(:p "PASDF") to a list. 19:26:38 way more if built in the early 20th century ("Altbau") 19:27:17 lichtblau: huh? 19:27:37 user3479: that wasn't to you 19:27:46 ehu: d'oh - ty 19:28:22 user3479: what's wrong with (list :p ) ? 19:29:25 ehu: i'd like arbitrary keywords based on the string passed in, if possible. or rather, im wondering if it can be done out of my own curiosity. 19:30:25 user3479: you can use intern to create a symbol in the keyword package with a particular name. 19:30:44 specbot clhs intern 19:30:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 19:31:01 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:06 Xach, ehu: ty - i'll look into that. i'm still in the early stages of learning Lisp, so ty for helping a newbie :) 19:31:25 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 19:32:31 marioxcc [~user@200.56.149.138] has joined #lisp 19:34:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:59 -!- marklarr [~user@173-30-20-80.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:03 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 19:38:10 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:18 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:58 awesome, problem solved. thank you all very much! enjoy your day :) 19:40:03 -!- user3479 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:52 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:13 -!- Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:42:50 konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 19:43:10 -!- konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:24 konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 -!- konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:05 konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 19:44:31 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:44:35 -!- Elench is now known as Zetetic 19:48:02 -!- konr2 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:16 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 19:48:24 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:48:49 -!- Zetetic [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:06 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 19:50:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:37 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:33 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 19:53:56 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:55:15 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ehfongserxlxaqxc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:01:36 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:02:31 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.74.68] has joined #lisp 20:02:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 20:04:20 is there a "function tab-completion" add on that is recommended? I saw hippie completion but I am not sure about it since it seems to be pretty heavy duty. 20:05:04 when I use M-/ in the sbcl repl it completes with words from other buffers i.e. open text documents. 20:05:39 Uhm 20:05:58 Do you use slime-fancy? 20:06:07 *wolgo* is a noob 20:06:21 uhh I use a slime-major mode 20:06:28 I am not sure if that is the same thing 20:06:33 place (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) into your .emacs 20:07:04 and also (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) 20:07:44 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 20:10:34 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:47 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:12:44 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:48 there is a function like mod or / returns both those values right? 20:13:03 or did i just imagine comming across that once 20:13:24 PuffTheMagic: Are you looking for /, ROUND, TRUNC, CEILING, or something else? 20:13:59 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:47 i am looing for (something 5 2) that returns (values 2 1) 20:14:53 instead of doing mod and / manually 20:15:08 clhs / 20:15:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_sl.htm 20:15:27 Ah, so not /. 20:15:38 Oh! How about FLOOR? 20:15:39 maybe i confused that with truncate 20:15:45 That's the other one I was trying to remember. 20:15:46 maybe it dont exist 20:15:48 tcr: thanks :) 20:16:22 i dont think its floor or ceiling either 20:16:27 i guess i can just do / and mod 20:16:36 clhs floor 20:16:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 20:16:40 PuffTheMagic: why do you reject floor and truncate? 20:16:46 *attila_lendvai* murmurs something about defaults and newbie's... 20:17:14 cause those operate on 1 number 20:17:25 PuffTheMagic: incorrect. 20:17:32 PuffTheMagic: They operate on number &optional divisor. 20:17:47 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:57 loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 20:18:22 ok then floor does what i want :D 20:18:30 thanks 20:18:33 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:54 and do does truncate aparently :D 20:19:37 PuffTheMagic: As long as your results are not <0, yes. 20:19:50 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-241.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:55 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:19:55 PuffTheMagic: What about ceiling and round? 20:20:38 nyef: round yes ceilding no 20:21:19 Heh. Round probably not. 20:21:29 (round 5 2) 20:21:31 2 1 20:21:42 is what i got 20:21:45 which is right 20:21:48 Round 5 3? 20:23:00 ok not round ;) 20:23:20 PuffTheMagic: These all have slightly different behaviors that happen to be the same in your one test case. 20:23:37 tcr: awesome. 20:23:52 thanks a lot this is exactly what I was looking for and more 20:24:29 wolgo, could you please complain a bit about why it's not the default in slime? i've used up all my karma on slime-devel... :) 20:24:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:25:36 wolgo: try sb:with TAB 20:25:53 Sikander [~Sikander@5356EFC5.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 20:26:43 PuffTheMagic: (floor -5 2)? 20:26:53 what was the alexandria function to map a function over all the subsets of a sequence? so (1 2 3 4) -> ((1) (1 2) (1 3) (1 4) (2 3) etc. ) 20:26:53 hehehe 20:27:32 or where is the documentation of alexandria, I used to have it but cant find the site. Only thing I have found is a pdf that is far from complete 20:27:57 sellout: with a neg first number the effects of ceilding an floor are reversed i see 20:28:08 made intuitive sense before i tried it 20:28:21 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 Reinout_Stevens: Do you use slime? 20:28:40 y 20:28:49 its one of the map-* functions 20:28:53 Reinout_Stevens: C-c I (find-package :alexandria) 20:29:07 tcr: what do you mean? run that in the evaluator or repl? 20:29:19 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:39 Reinout_Stevens: alexandria:C-c M-i, or (apropos "MAP" :alexandria) 20:29:57 -!- loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:05 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@115.118.144.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:08 PuffTheMagic: truncate always "rounds" toward zero, and floor always "rounds" toward neg-infinity. 20:30:17 Or M-x slime-apropos-package 20:30:27 k 20:30:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:46 -!- francogrex [~user@180.92-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:49 PuffTheMagic: And for all eight of the functions, there's a defined relationship between the divisor, the quotient, and the remainder. 20:30:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:31:19 ty tcr, apparently there is no such function but wrote it myself once using map-permutations 20:33:01 i realize that, i just assumed they took 1 argument 20:33:08 so didnt realize they did what i wanted 20:35:34 Interestingly, during this conversation, I got a Twitter invite from @ReadyToRound  but apparently they are not talking about the function. 20:35:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:15 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:05 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:41 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:41 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:39:44 hey attila_lendvai 20:39:58 what is the excuse for not having this mode enabled by default? 20:40:04 that is retarded 20:40:15 I have a question about describe. or more specifically, (describe (xlib:atom-name ...)) 20:40:33 it makes it MUCH easier to know what I need to google by having this on 20:40:41 Sikander: What about it? 20:41:02 blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 as a lisp noob it enables me to look at a list of functions and possibly identify a better function to use for a given problem. 20:41:16 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:24 Sikander: If memory serves, CLX atom-names are keywords. 20:41:30 I think I will join slime-devel even though they will probably ignore me. 20:41:43 It gives me both something like :|foo| [symbol] as well as foo names a constant variable: Value: :|foo| 20:42:09 Sikander: Sounds about right. 20:42:26 Sikander: What were you expecting? 20:42:36 nyef: so can it be converted to a string? 20:42:47 symbol-name 20:43:30 nyef: ah, so a keyword is a symbol? Dammit, there's so much I don't understand of lisp... 20:43:48 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:52 will (symbol-name :foo) return ":foo" or "foo"? 20:43:57 Hmm, gotta try 20:43:59 "FOO", typically. 20:44:02 brb repl 20:44:26 nice 20:44:41 nyef: thanks 20:44:47 wolgo, we used to work quite a bit on fuzzy, for example i made it orders of magnitude faster... but then i had a clash because the slime maintainer preferred simplicity to features, and cut fuzzy (and many other cool features) out into contribs which are not loaded by default (iow, noobs never see them) 20:44:48 nyef: works as advertised. 20:44:49 Sikander: No provlem. 20:44:55 Err... No problem. 20:45:37 nyef: Do you know more about clx, specifically fonts? 20:45:38 wolgo, i was complaining so much that i'm not even welcom on slime-devel anymore... :) 20:46:06 well this mode, slime-fancy with fuzzy completion enables noobs like me to learn more about the stdlib 20:46:12 so that is retarded imho 20:46:23 but my HO does not count 20:46:30 *wolgo* waits for people to type "lol" 20:46:37 Sikander: I haven't dug too deeply into CLX font handling yet, though I plan to soon anyway, so this works as a good excuse. 20:46:44 Sikander: What do you want to know there? 20:46:46 *wolgo* realizes it is not going to happen. 20:47:08 man I really like PCL 20:47:24 nyef: I recently found some time to try to do something I wanted to do half a year ago. Namely, get mcclim to also rotate the glyphs when rotating text. 20:47:40 it embeds lisp into my mind very insidiously 20:47:56 nyef: I think I've discussed this here before. clx offers a way to do that, but I have to basically open a new font for that 20:47:58 I feel like I am not learning, then I see something and I can parse it. 20:48:01 haha cool. 20:48:10 Ah. You can't with stock X, you have to render to a pixmap or bitmap, then rotate that, I believe. 20:48:22 At least, that's how I've seen it done before. 20:48:29 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 20:48:34 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:48:55 nyef: No, I'm using affine font transforms in clx 20:48:59 nyef: anyhoo 20:49:10 That's... not ringing a bell, I'm afraid. 20:49:33 It's not in XRender, is it? 20:49:42 nyef: is there a way to, once you have a full font name, -Misc-Fixed-bla-bla-etc to split this up into separate fields in CLX? 20:49:45 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has left #lisp 20:49:57 nyef: I can roll my own, but if clx has a way to do it, it would be great 20:50:10 nyef: ? 20:51:05 nyef: If you look at XLFD v1.5 page 24, it clearly shows that in the font name, you can set a matrix instead of a point or pixel size. This matrix is a transformation matrix 20:51:14 Ah. 20:52:02 I'm thinking some thing about "query-font-info" or "get-font-info" or something like that? 20:52:02 So what I want to do is, get the current font, modify the pointsize field to contain the transformation matrix, open that new font, use it, then close it again (in mcclim) 20:52:09 varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:52:18 nyef: hmmm... 20:54:35 nyef: ok, but something like that could not be manipulated. I think I'll just split the string. At least, until I get a working version. 20:54:46 -!- erjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.32] has joined #lisp 20:55:05 It's a struct with accessors, is it not? 20:55:31 nyef: Yes, but it seems not always fully defined 20:55:34 Admittedly, splitting the string might well be easier. 20:57:15 I'll just do that until someone comes along and shouts "You're doing it wrong!" 20:57:27 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:57:37 Greetings lispers. 20:57:49 As long as I can get the transform-glyphs optional keyword in mcclim working. 20:57:49 Hello tmh. 20:58:02 hi tmh 20:58:18 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:21 Hey nyef and Sikander 20:58:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:03 So, who the heck provisions a Mac G5 without an AirPort card or bluetooth support? 20:59:28 hey LiamH 20:59:30 someone who wants to save $50 on a $5000 computer? 21:00:23 Something like that. 21:01:05 The real question is, can I manage to source the missing bit? 21:02:13 nyef: it's a desktop computer 21:02:17 most poeple won't want those 21:02:17 I have some long running threads with a function that uses (format t ...) to periodically print the status. What is the issue with that and threads? I'm not getting the status output. 21:02:23 This is in SBCL. 21:02:23 are you sure it doesn't have one, not just that it's missing linux support? 21:02:25 very few desktops come with either 21:02:43 you might be easier just getting USB/PCI-E ones 21:02:59 Back in my G5 days I had Bluetooth  how else to pair my phone? 21:03:13 USB ones would be easy enough, if OSX actually supports them 21:03:20 (or if you don't care about OSX) 21:03:31 tmh: It's outputting to the "wrong" place? 21:03:36 nyef: If you only need one, I have a non-booting G5 that you can try to take a part out of. Maybe a hard drive, too. 21:03:40 foom: OSX supports various USB wifi and bluetooth things 21:03:49 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:02 nyef: USB bluetooth is basically universal, for wifi you'll have to be careful. 21:04:06 nyef: I remembered that as soon as I ran it. What I can't remember or find on the interwebs is what is the correct place. 21:04:17 tmh: *inferior-lisp* 21:04:18 yeah; there are only about two chips used for bluetooth 21:04:23 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 21:04:24 Ah, thanks. 21:04:28 nyef: Thanks. 21:04:39 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 foom: There's a clear expansion slot with antenna cables leading up to it. I'd say it's physically missing. 21:04:53 rsynnott: well, maybe not two, but there's basically two-three hw protocols to drive the chips... 21:05:24 Does anyone know how/if openGL can be easily made to work with mcclim (clx backend)? 21:05:30 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:37 I expect at this point that I'll just stick a USB thing or two on the back and call it good enough. 21:05:39 acieroid` [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 21:06:11 Sikander: I don't know about "easily", but it's been made to go with the glx-fixes branch of CLX. 21:06:31 nyef: So... no examples or so? 21:07:07 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:07 -!- aCiD2 [~acid2@ks36383.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:51 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-153-156.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:07:55 nyef: Hah, *inferior-lisp*, except that this is a remote image, so I had to pull up the screen. 21:08:28 minion: Tell Sikander about paste 81572, please? 21:08:28 Sikander: look at Paste number 81572: "gl-pane test" by hefner in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/81572 21:08:39 aCiD2 [~acid2@ks36383.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:25 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:09:26 Sikander: You -will- need the glx-fixes branch if you want that to not lock up in very short order. 21:09:57 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:39 nyef: thanks! 21:11:11 tmh: (setq swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) into the .swank.lisp 21:11:16 (The glx-fixes branch also includes the start of support for texture-mapping, to give you an idea of how bad an idea this is.) 21:12:30 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:43 -!- blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:58 tcr: Thanks. I need to actually create a .swank.lisp file. I'm using that fairly often. 21:13:51 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:14:20 nyef: Wait, what? You mean bad as in very much behind? 21:14:32 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has left #lisp 21:14:46 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 21:15:08 Yes. You're probably better off with one of the solutions involving a different opengl. 21:15:34 but that's not in mcclim then? 21:15:47 I don't know. 21:15:56 ok, thanks, I'll look a bit more into it. 21:15:56 I don't use, or particularly -like- McCLIM. 21:16:06 ah 21:16:10 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 I actually like the concept of the interactor 21:16:44 Sure, some of the -concepts- are good. 21:17:16 But what, too low level? Too few or bad backends? 21:18:17 CLIM itself is badly-specified, and McCLIM just doesn't do much for me as an implementation. 21:18:17 Invalid index 0: must be between 0 and -1. 21:18:29 specbot: Oh, shut up. 21:18:48 ok, fair enough 21:19:21 My own NQCLIM is currently officially cancelled, but I don't know how long that'll last. 21:20:01 ... I didn't know such a thing existed (no offence intended) 21:20:11 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:25 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 I haven't released it at all, and rarely speak of it, so no offense taken. 21:20:52 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:21:30 How does it differ from McCLIM, in broad lines? I mean, I assume it follows the CLIM spec? 21:21:55 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:58 NQCLIM is nowhere near usable, even for me. 21:22:09 ah, ok 21:23:06 dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:23:58 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:24:31 Xach: happy reddit birthday! 21:24:36 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:13 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-61-181.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:25 *drewc* had his 4 year a couple days ago 21:26:17 Ok, time to get some sleep. Bye 21:26:28 -!- Sikander [~Sikander@5356EFC5.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 21:29:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:09 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:53 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:05 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:33:10 alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:35:29 licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 21:37:13 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 21:38:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:16 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 21:43:32 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:03 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.32] has joined #lisp 21:46:10 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:49:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:47 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:50:42 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:47 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:36 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:55 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:57 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:12 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 21:55:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:52 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:56:24 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:56:24 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:02:53 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:02 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 22:04:08 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:09:01 nurv [nurv@83.231.21.185] has joined #lisp 22:09:38 Hi. 22:10:14 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:12:07 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:12:09 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:10 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:27 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.74.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:12:32 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 22:14:49 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:15:22 -!- varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:17:21 heyhey [~4f9abd9c@gateway/web/freenode/x-gadfhupmjvtoofmp] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 -!- licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:12 hi, what GUI library is typically used with lisp? 22:18:36 heyhey: that's a tricky question... 22:18:36 sellout- [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:50 multiple answers? 22:19:19 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:19:19 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 22:19:23 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:19:23 "typically" none 22:19:30 hehe 22:19:38 What's your needs? target platform? 22:20:02 cross platform preferably 22:20:11 but it's mostly curiosity 22:20:28 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:34 heyhey: "big" GUI applications typically end up using commercial implementations, which often come with their own GUI toolkits (like LispWorks' CAPI), and there's usually a commercial CLIM implementation available on those as well. 22:20:36 I'm reading about wxcl 22:20:44 wxcl is afaik deader than dead. 22:20:51 oh 22:21:07 I'm afraid GUI one of CL's peculiar pet peeves 22:21:11 so lispers don't like GUIs? 22:21:50 heyhey: no, it's just that it takes 1) a lot of work 2) there's often a lot of FFI involved 3) there's too many possible choices 4) Other than commercial implementations, no one has the manpower to do it 22:22:11 FFI? 22:22:41 Foreign Function Interface 22:22:46 interfacing with non-Lisp code 22:22:56 ok 22:23:04 heyhey: lot of options are available; there's an xlib implemented in Lisp, there're bindings to qt, and gtk, there's clim, there's what commercial implementators provide 22:23:05 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:52 and cross-platform options, tcr ? 22:24:33 heyhey: there's certainly Ltk, though I don't know what its current status is - however, Tk tends to be rather solid multiplatform choice, even if not necessarily nice or fitting in. 22:24:34 No idea, isn't qt /gtk cross-platform? 22:25:20 there's CL-GTK2, which apparently works. There's CommonQT which can be tricky, but I had seen it work, even on windows. There's CLX and toolkits that use it (like McCLIM or Garnet). You can use pure SDL. 22:25:32 First try to find a cross-plattform Lisp implementation, and then one which works with whatever GUI library you want to use 22:25:42 and then... despair! 22:25:51 heyhey: what is your *main* platform? 22:26:11 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:20 windows 22:26:48 so not even Lisp implementations are cross-platform...? 22:27:12 heyhey: for windows, I used ccl and cl-gtk2, works. 22:27:21 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-atacpbemwmtmgtvw] has joined #lisp 22:28:27 heyhey: For windows, out of free software there's CCL, which has some quirks, but which should be usable. There's the question of GUI - you can try using FFI to windows libs or you could try using RDNZL and make the GUI part in .NET 22:28:54 ok, thanks 22:29:41 dmiles_afk iirc uses ABCL for application logic and Java for GUI (ABCL is a JVM-based CL implementation) 22:30:04 heyhey: The situation can be summarized as follows: Either you need a big pocket, or a big hacker hat. I don't really now which one of these two is "bigger" nowadays 22:30:53 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.79] has joined #lisp 22:30:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:31:08 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 22:31:13 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:31:41 I think you would need a really big hacker hat with lots hackers to fill it, which requires a big pocket, or a good free software project 22:31:58 _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-mxvzfvuitmgujaws] has joined #lisp 22:32:11 heyhey: most of projects based on free implementations tend to be Web-based 22:33:33 heyhey: What is your project, anyway? 22:34:08 nothing for the moment 22:34:19 it was mostly curiosity 22:35:14 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:58 heyhey: if you don't need *fast* GUI, it's possible to make a Qt-based harness and use HTML5+JS for GUI 22:36:14 it's a bit shocking anyway that such a venerable and powerful language lacks a native GUI 22:36:51 I was surprised by this also... 22:37:06 yes, that would be a nice free software project 22:37:09 heyhey: you see, we don't have much manpower available, and those that have the pockets to pay don't want to wait and just go for commercial implementations. 22:37:35 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:37:43 some implementations have excellent GUI support, but usually only for one platform (like CCL for OSX) 22:37:45 if by native you mean standard, then cl lacks just about everything. 22:38:03 instead of all those projects that tend to reinvent the wheel with slightly and irrelevant differences... 22:38:37 heyhey: And by native you mean GUI made with CL? 22:39:02 heyhey: quite often, it's just way too easy to just write a new lib that does what you need, instead of getting another one and adding the bits you want or just adapting to how it works. 22:39:09 yes 22:40:30 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:40:43 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:41:03 heyhey: for example, dto made basically his own, simple toolkit on top of SDL, iirc. 22:41:03 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:41:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:24 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:00 I guess it's part of the lisp programmer mindset... that one tends to try to do it before looking somewhere else... 22:45:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.9.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:45:48 not a mindset so much as it's just that easy. 22:45:57 :) 22:46:10 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:18 Making complete GUI is huge work. Even writing all bindings for existing ones is. 22:46:28 heyhey: as an illustrations, reading a beginner's guide to MOP nearly made me do my own persistence library :) 22:46:37 *illustration 22:46:44 but it's a necessary, justified effort! :) 22:47:11 Bindings to something like Qt is probably the best bet 22:47:23 Guthur: yes, but that includes fighting C++ 22:47:27 It already has done a lot of the immense leg work required 22:47:35 and believe me, no-one likes to fight with C++ 22:47:40 I know 22:47:54 gtk is fine too. 22:48:16 I million curses on the increasing prevalence of C++ 22:48:19 fighting in what sense? 22:48:24 I/A 22:48:38 it's C++ 22:48:40 so, every sense. 22:48:45 expect bruises. 22:49:01 C++ is by most accounts the worse language for the language interop scenario 22:49:07 yes, I wonder why it is so... It is the inertia caused by legacy code at some point? 22:49:13 if by "worse" you mean "worst", then no way 22:49:21 C++ is the second best language for interop. 22:49:42 heyhey: C++ is probably one of the worst things to try interacting with, in my opinion. 22:49:49 foom: why is that? 22:50:05 I'd be interested to know that as well 22:50:09 foom: the first is lisp? 22:50:18 heyhey: Lisp users population is still relatively small. 22:50:19 heyhey: no, that'd be somewhere near last. 22:50:29 uh oh 22:50:31 C is easiest to interact with from other languages. 22:50:40 C is yes 22:50:49 but thats not C++ 22:50:55 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:50:58 right. I claim C++ is second easiest. 22:51:02 after C 22:51:03 yes, amaron_ and that's really sad 22:51:51 Since it's built by aliens, you have to become alien yourself and use it. 22:51:52 foom: you sure? most of the others have some kind of introspection allowing much easier coordination. 22:52:09 At least other programmers look me that way now. 22:52:09 p_l: most others have a runtime library that interacts badly with the surrounding environment. 22:52:12 fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 alien? I thought that was APL 22:52:21 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:02 -!- sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has left #lisp 22:53:07 I mean, maybe you have an alternative proposal for second easiest? I might be easily convinceable with a concrete suggestion. :) 22:53:22 foom: Objective-C seems to be easier to interact with. 22:53:43 bash. hehe 22:53:45 javascript? 22:53:46 p_l: okay, you're right. Objective C is easier. C++ goes to 3rd. 22:54:13 foom: I could now probably also include basically every language that uses runtime based on C except for C++... 22:54:36 p_l: are there any others? 22:54:45 commonqt is the only signifigant cl system I'm aware of that does C++ interop.. 22:54:46 then I'd add .NET as a whole. Only then I'd consider C++ 22:54:57 what are the others? 22:55:00 foom: all languages like Ruby, Python etc. 22:55:09 p_l: no, those are a disaster 22:55:20 you can't write a library in python 22:55:25 for use in another language 22:55:28 haskell :) 22:55:29 that's just a non-starter 22:55:50 foom: well, true. But it's easier to embed one than to do that with a C++ one... 22:56:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:28 well, you could embed python in a lisp system /w cffi. 22:56:39 I mean: "what could I write a library like openssl in?" 22:57:18 something that's intended to be ubiquitous, and used by code in every programming language. 22:57:22 as for runtime interop... I wonder how hard it will be to FFI with Go 22:58:00 as far as I can tell, my only actual options are: 1) C. 2) C++ with C bindings. 22:58:31 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.19.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:58:36 well, you could use the native objectiveC bridge from clozure cl. 22:58:37 ObjC gets tossed because of lack of proper maintainance on any platform but OSX. 22:59:20 foom: well, there's at least some libs that are written in Fortran. 22:59:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:04 on windows platform, usually, you can find libs in VB (but those are tricky to interop with, outside of COM, iirc) and Pascal (which are fine as long as they use C strings) 23:00:07 fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:08 UABCL runs on .NET 23:01:11 I've never run across any fortran libs, but I'll take your word for it. :) 23:01:17 and plays well with anyhting .net does 23:01:32 as long as you only care about windows. 23:01:45 oh and runs on mono 23:01:53 (linux) 23:01:59 and mac. etc 23:02:42 Mono is getting such a good reception by developers and users, it sounds like a great idea to hitch yourself to that bandwagon. :) 23:02:52 But surely if you write in standard CL you can pretty much compile and run on any platform that has a CL implementation 23:03:21 You're almost better off writing code that runs on "anything so long as it's a JVM", than .NET/mono. :) 23:03:54 yeah the reason i dont use other lisps besides UABCL is i dont like porting java or .net apps to lisp . i rather use them 23:04:06 foom: I've got this big system written in a mix of Fortran and C... 23:04:14 foom: it was compiled with f2c, though. 23:04:15 i use them .. but i mean for prototyping 23:04:46 p_l: sounds fun. 23:04:49 many math libs, otoh, are actually written in Fortran. Simply for the reasons that Fortran compilers run loops around any other when it comes to superoptimizing math code. 23:05:07 foom: it basically forms it's own OS running on top of Win32/POSIX/VMS 23:05:22 p_l Is that really still true? Doesn't gcc use the same optimizers for fortran and C? 23:05:35 foom: GCC is far from being a good Fortran compiler 23:05:38 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 23:05:43 oh, that'd do it, I guess. :) 23:06:05 and there are semantic differences between Fortran and C that cause certain optimizations that are comparatively easy in Fortran require an AI for C 23:06:33 (for example in parallelization) 23:07:08 something i hope to learn about is now to best FFI the .net to call C compiled things.. i know how to do it.. but how to best expose to lisp 23:07:50 "unmananged code" .net would call it 23:08:10 but for now it be .net -> ikvm -> jna 23:08:53 dmiles_afk: does UABCL use ikvm or does it work towards becoming .NET native? 23:09:10 dmiles_afk, jna? 23:09:23 well it have to work so what it really does is use IKVM a little much 23:09:34 but i have a uncommits C# version ;) 23:09:38 -!- Helheim [~helheim@93.186.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:09:38 but i have a uncommited C# version ;) 23:09:51 That sounds more interesting. 23:10:03 ¿DLR? 23:10:07 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:10:25 Helheim [~helheim@93.186.169.24] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 but.. the main diffs of UABCL and ABCL is more than just the fact it runs on IKVM where ABCL doesnt want to 23:10:55 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:56 i changed the scripting API of ABCL to understand IKVM typesystem and such 23:11:16 scottj [foobar@174-21-106-184.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:23 if ABCL would take my patches but i get tired after 2 years of nagging.. UABCL still would exist 23:11:26 -!- _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-mxvzfvuitmgujaws] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:11:47 _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ffjmkukgwnaggudo] has joined #lisp 23:11:49 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 23:12:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229144222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:12:27 so i devoted more time on the EU javaLisp called LarKC.. but still say "UABCL" since at least there was a couple of relased versions that worked 23:13:00 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:13:23 -!- Guest76982 is now known as xristos 23:13:26 well here is the issue with the C# stuff... IKVM has let me do it incrementally.. replacing the java ovbjects with the C# cersions 23:13:49 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 23:13:54 Elench [~jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 -!- Elench [~jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 23:13:55 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:13:58 but honestly the emitted .dll is not any better 23:14:04 dll/exe 23:14:08 Some time ago i did something similar with Jscheme. 23:14:29 so like in your case you get more milliage by improving jscheme 23:14:36 But instead of using IKVM i first made it run on Visual J# then replace parts one by one with C# versions. 23:15:00 -!- |Soulman| [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:15:04 thats was my workflow to.. basically i pass the J# smell test.. then i JCLA the J#able version 23:15:06 J# is no longer supported though. 23:15:42 At the end the C# version was slower than the Java one. 23:16:19 About 20 or 30% slower in MS .NET, about 50% in Mono. 23:16:31 But it was an interesting exercise. 23:17:11 -!- Balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:28 IKVM is a vm on top of another vm which was basically developed to compete with the former? 23:18:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:20 Yep, something like that. 23:18:37 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:53 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:19:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:17 and how's the performance of a program running on top of a vm on top of a vm? 23:20:19 ~logs 23:20:38 dng blue screne ;P too much cpu% :\ 23:20:59 did you just BSOD your PC 23:21:23 yeah yeah \ 23:21:41 hehe, its ok, even still happens in Win7 23:21:43 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:21:55 heyhey: IKVM does compile the Java libraries into NET assemblies though. 23:22:15 Guthur: you know why NT has *blue* screen of death? 23:22:17 nurv: i compareed the CIL in both cases.. not much differnt 23:22:38 p_l: I think I heard once, but can not remember 23:22:47 logs 23:22:48 It's just the JDK VM is faster. 23:23:10 nurv: yup, yeah which is why i am not totally sold on maintyaining just C# source 23:23:35 Guthur: it's simply that the default OS console was white on blue... and at least one arch that was supported by NT had hardware console use the same colors, actually 23:23:50 dmiles_afk: Yes, me too, i find C# a much more pleasant language to work with than Java. 23:24:18 nurv: i been writting a few on my lisp prims in C# .. sinc ei like it better to 23:25:00 http://code.google.com/p/opensim4opencog/source/browse/trunk/Cogbot/ScriptEngines/ABCLInterpreter.cs 23:26:13 I did write all of the procedures in SRFI-1 in C# in the Jscheme ported interpreter. 23:26:28 But i would rather do it in scheme itself if it wasn't for speed. 23:26:48 nurv: its our fault we havent imporovwed the compiler better ;) 23:27:00 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:12 dmiles_afk: Is it used for opensim? (from link you gave) 23:27:15 that sure one day should be able to write in scmeme on yours or CL on mine 23:27:43 yeah i have an AI bot that works in secondlife and on opensim 23:27:52 it runs common lisp code 23:28:02 in .net runtime 23:28:14 dmiles_afk: Nice to hear that. 23:28:32 (the network events call lisp functions) 23:28:52 Trying to pass Turring test? 23:28:54 (well little higher level than network.. more like simulator events) 23:29:42 amaron_: yeah.. just a theory that our minds are orgnajited like a vw 23:30:07 so having a place to ontologize ( a virtual world) i think is helpfull 23:30:46 so i been trying to write platforms for other AI coders .. there was a lack of them out there 23:31:45 i been merging the code of UABCL into LarkC which is all JVM based... while adding in features and support while runing on IKVM 23:32:06 then i consume those outputs from the C# OpenSim/Secondlife bot 23:32:32 don't they mind people running bots there? 23:32:34 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:33:02 dmiles_afk: There is a CL group on secondlife. Did you tried there? 23:33:06 heyhey: well OpenSim is more friendly so thats whgy its declared OpenSim.. but realyl 90% of thge testing we do is Secondlife 23:33:45 amaron_: indeed i think i should send them stuff to let them know it exist and see what buzz can occure 23:34:18 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 23:34:51 dmiles_afk: I didn't find them active recently, just few people online. 23:35:22 -!- heyhey [~4f9abd9c@gateway/web/freenode/x-gadfhupmjvtoofmp] has left #lisp 23:35:49 dmiles_afk: Perpaps some intro how to use Lisp within Secondlife will be good start. 23:35:56 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:52 the original protoypew was Clojure .. but then i changd it to COmmon lisp.. i gotta port the emamples.. but definately 23:38:41 I admit I am surprised SL has survived this long 23:39:21 Its even more obvious its a glorified chat room than WoW & co 23:39:49 Guthur: Too many addicted users, graphic improvements in time and alot of virtual sex. 23:40:09 Yep the old sex sells 23:41:08 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:41:09 So, writing better sex scripts in CL could promote Lisp too. :) 23:41:19 I did log in once, many years ago, I really think it was only the once. 23:41:28 well what i wanted tyo see happen was an AI create Stubs of user action that were codless.. then make it send the programmer workorders like "drink the beer" wher ethe programmer scripts in lisp arround the the LibOpenMetaverse API 23:41:43 codless/coders 23:42:11 that lisp code is stored in a Notecoard asset and then the bot knows the performatives 23:42:14 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:30 eek, I think irc and github will be the height of my programming oriented social networking 23:43:48 Guthur: it became a ghost town after they forced separation of any "adult" activity. 23:43:55 dmiles_afk: You could make prostitute bot and make money with them. :) 23:44:37 amaron_: that is one possible app :) 23:44:53 (i'd rather see others make money from it) 23:45:14 i do have my "killer app" .. making Cyc have embodiement 23:45:40 but that feels like 8000 more hours of coding still 23:46:01 that's only 4 man-years :) 23:46:09 dmiles_afk: In Lisp? 23:46:25 someone looking for me? 23:46:29 the tab lit up for #lisp 23:46:51 Phoodus: totally doable! 23:47:07 dto: seems somebody mentioned your name in regards to GUI and SDL 23:47:10 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:47:20 amaron_: cyc has 4 ports now: Lisp, C#, C, Java.. but most of the work is KE 23:47:41 *Phoodus* is still waiting for Cyc to have distributed inference and streaming persistence 23:48:18 *dmiles_afk* is waiting for man or Phoodus to actually come up with distributed inference that is a better 23:48:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:47 that is a better what? 23:48:59 than one thread 23:49:20 i know it can be done.. but then also the KB partitionaing scheme 23:49:23 I've got a distributed prolog model that's been tested on a simulation 23:50:06 but with CPUs today having 8 or more cores, even thread pooling is important 23:50:47 but cyc is already threaded, isn't it? 23:51:00 yeah its thread 23:51:26 yeah its threade 23:51:36 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:51:59 I presume it's a fine-grained threading instead of coarse-grained partitioning of work, or else they could just as easily have distributed their threaded model 23:52:04 actually what i should have said "/me waiting for man or Phoodus to come up with a get partioning scheme of KBs that doesnt slow it down" 23:52:25 good partitioning scheme 23:52:54 oh, it'll be slower than a single box. It's just when your inference model grows larger than RAM, it's either slow down via disk inference, slow down via networked inference, or don't do it at all 23:53:07 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:36 Or buy a really expensive thing from Sun 23:53:44 (or IBM, maybe, these days) 23:54:00 I think Sun have lost the crown for stupid amounts of ram per machine 23:54:04 since rdbms and semantic web databases seem to infer over disk & do distributed things well, I don't think it's a problem at all for general inferencing 23:54:21 p_l: could I discuss my common-lisp.net demo with you? 23:54:36 seeing as you can get quad-socket motherboards supporting 256+MB of RAM, various options become available 23:54:40 p_l: drewc hasn't been available 23:54:45 you go distributed for safe failover 23:54:45 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:49 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 23:54:54 erm, 256+ _GB_ of RAM 23:55:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:56:30 fatblueduck: what demo? :) 23:56:53 fatblueduck: mind that I have no position at tech.coop nor c-l.net 23:57:04 I'll query you 23:57:09 (though I've been campaigning for better PR lately) 23:57:48 rsynnott: for a distributed thing, I'd go for Sun's T2 23:58:42 even with Lisp? :) 23:58:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:59:01 actually, I suppose the commercial ones do proper multithreading on Sparc, now 23:59:16 *rsynnott* suspects that Oracle will kill Sun Niagara, sadly 23:59:43 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f664b56-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit []