00:02:28 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:43 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:04:09 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 00:13:51 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:35 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 00:16:43 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.122] has joined #lisp 00:17:02 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 00:17:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:17:25 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:18:16 -!- bzzbzz [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:22:23 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 drewc: ... seriously? 00:23:27 (regarding licenses) 00:24:06 and before you ask, I don't really need one (I have legal licenses for XP and Windows Server from 2003 till latest) 00:24:15 I'm just interested in how it works 00:24:25 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:36 -!- rm_ is now known as glogic 00:31:17 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:26 sav [~sav@189001131236.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:32:32 thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:42 -!- dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:32:47 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:55 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:49 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:41:16 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:42:57 p_l: yeah, basically we lease licences 00:46:34 Reeeeallly? You got a 64-bit VM image around? 00:48:16 kumi [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:26 -!- kumi is now known as fusss_ 00:48:35 drewc: so, basically, you got volume license for the organization without transfer rights? 00:49:32 Hardly needs transfer rights: The organization only does work for its members. 00:50:25 hi, i have a vanilla class with appropriately bound slots, but when I do (with-slots (foo bar baz) obj ..) it tells me class has no slots named foo|bar|baz 00:50:30 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50:43 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:43 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:50:43 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:51:04 fusss_: Package issues? 00:51:12 fwiw, the class name and accessor are exported from another package, and the only thing i haven't done is export the slot names (do i need to do that?) 00:51:18 Yup. 00:51:23 Slot-names are symbols. 00:51:27 gottcha ;-) 00:51:33 nyef: what I meant with transfer rights was about what happens when someone stops being a member, which was IMHO a sensible assumptions that the license would be voided. 00:51:39 with-accessors should work though, right? 00:51:58 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.62] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:52:01 fusss_: I forget? 00:52:13 that's fine? 00:52:15 ;-) 00:52:42 fwiw, cl-scum is now example-compatible with cl-soap 00:53:03 the same wsdl is being parsed, but we have more info 00:53:11 Next project idea: cl-scumm, for playing maniac mansion. 00:53:22 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-237-4.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:54:32 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:55:43 p_l: the licenses are leased monthly, so a former member would only have that long until their license is not valid. 00:56:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:57:39 ah, this way 00:59:31 Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:41 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-64-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:07:39 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-19-254.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08:08 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 01:10:13 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11:42 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:10 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 01:16:13 nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.60] has joined #lisp 01:17:29 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:20:20 -!- sav [~sav@189001131236.usr.predialnet.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:56 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:55 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-78.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:24:59 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:27:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31:39 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.81.133] has joined #lisp 01:31:53 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host86-132-122-232.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:33:04 Guthur [~Michael@host86-138-194-163.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:34:59 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:35:19 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:35 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:52 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:09 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 01:36:31 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:36:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:38:30 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 01:38:39 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:52 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 01:39:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:39:45 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:14 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:01 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.60] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:41:16 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 01:41:35 nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.12] has joined #lisp 01:41:51 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:16 hello 01:43:32 having a trouble today w/ sbcl + slime + w32 today - hoping maybe someone here might lend some insight 01:44:44 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 01:45:00 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 01:45:10 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 01:45:26 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 01:47:05 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:48:39 On the latest SBCL w32 `sb-win32::ansi-codepage' and `sb-impl::*default-external-format*' both evaluate to => :CP1252 Is this correct? 01:48:54 longkid [~longkid@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 01:49:01 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.161.70.110] has left #lisp 01:49:36 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:49:40 I'm concerned because I can't seem to get `slime-repl' to work for me in Emacs and I'm wondering if maybe these encoding sheme has something to do with 01:53:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:32 That doesn't sound entirely wrong, at least. 01:54:51 *Fade* wonders how current http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/Threading-ppc is 01:56:25 Fade: Can't be entirely current: GENCGC/PPC has apparently been in the main tree for four years now. 01:56:38 yeah, just got there. 01:56:43 :) 01:56:53 sav [~sav@189001131086.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:57:05 The futex bit is also out-of-date, given the existence of lutexes. 01:57:37 I think at this point the answer is "if you have a PPC, why not give it a shot?" 01:58:20 yeah, i've been playing around with it. My main laptop is a ppc machine running linux. 01:58:29 Nice. 01:58:48 I had a G3 laptop at one point, but it wasn't running linux and I accidentally killed it. 01:59:15 now, to have a SiCortex PDS and SBCL/mips64... 01:59:24 I have a 17" pb that was orphaned by apple, and which had become intollerably slow /w OSX, so I repaved it. 01:59:45 -!- carnieri [~carnieri@201.21.178.60] has quit [Quit: carnieri] 01:59:49 p_l: I have a lot of 64bit mips hardware if you're seriously interested in a port. 02:00:22 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 02:00:47 it's all >= R10k though, so it's running Irix. 02:01:52 Fade: I'll give you a call if I'll have time for that. For now, it's in "nice to have, but no real time for that" 02:02:05 =D 02:02:23 Fade: OpenBSD runs on much of that hardware now 02:02:36 they worked around the cache coherency issue /w DMA? 02:02:40 *p_l* hopes that a fast SIGKILL managed to preserve firefox session status 02:02:42 so feel free to do an OpenBSD/Mips64 port 02:02:54 ... nope 02:03:00 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:03:16 My impression was that OpenBSD was actively hostile to SBCL. 02:03:21 Fade: beats me, I read the commit messages but don't retain much 02:03:40 In an "everything that SBCL depends on gets broken out from under it" kind of way. 02:03:42 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:03:44 not actively, no 02:03:53 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.231] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:04:10 it's just that SBCL just happens to be completely irrelevant 02:04:17 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-1267.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-1267.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 02:04:17 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 02:05:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:05:08 well, I'll have to dig around, but the last time I looked at anything free on MIPS >= R10k, there were serious problems. 02:05:18 i'd be happy to get anything but irix running on the gear. 02:05:54 even if it is bsd. 02:05:55 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:21 well I don't have any mips hardware, but http://www.openbsd.org/sgi.html seems encouraging 02:07:47 good luck running sbcl though, they don't believe in 32-bit compatibility layers 02:08:00 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:15 that does look promising. 02:08:29 nyef: can OpenBSD be hostile to SBCL? I thought that MacOSX was BSD-based.... 02:08:50 rpg: I meant specifically -Open- BSD. 02:09:02 MacOSX is more Mach based, anyway. 02:09:12 nyef: Ah. Thanks. I confess to not knowing a whole lot about the BSD family. 02:09:52 ... Oh, right, I wanted to install a FreeBSD VM for one of my SBCL branches. 02:09:59 interacting with theo at any level usually involves open hostility, so i wouldn't be surprised if that x-lated to sbcl, too. 02:10:05 just wait until they throw the switch and turn on randomized load addressed for executable, sbcl will love that 02:10:17 *addresses 02:10:39 joshe: Right, SBCL would have to have the compatibility switch for disabling that set. 02:11:02 yea 02:11:13 Heck, right now it can't even cope with randomized mmap(). 02:11:29 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:11:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:32 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:05 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.81.133] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 02:13:18 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:39 nor is it very happy with mmap() being immediately counted against the process's resource limits 02:14:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:16 That too. 02:14:27 longkid [~longkid@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 02:14:37 Although, if it were possible to just reserve the address space...? 02:15:29 what would be the point if sbcl can't dynamically allocate memory? 02:16:22 If SBCL can reserve its heap address spaces, it can dynamically map memory into them as it needs. 02:16:26 OSX does have BSD roots, but those are BSD4 roots, not {Open,Net,Free}BSD roots 02:16:37 "Just" like what happens on windows. 02:17:00 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:17:13 nyef: I have a 1.0.18 that lives on with randomized mmap() 02:17:47 this is on a system where you can't disable it through setpersonality 02:18:01 ah, I see 02:19:30 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC 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03:09:08 bzzbzz` [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:09:09 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 03:09:14 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:10:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:46 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 03:12:31 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:29 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:01 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:15:26 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 03:16:15 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@cpe-67-63-221-140.americainter.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 03:19:40 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:49 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22:49 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:28:27 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:20 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:35:41 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 03:35:51 how do i insert an item into a list destructively? 03:36:05 or actually, into a list in a list 03:36:12 hello, is it normal to define a package for a small test program, to load other packages? I mean, without defining packages, it seems to me the only way is to use REQUIRE, which is deprecated. 03:37:15 I'm new to lisp, so this might be a silly question. 03:37:36 (i-want-this (second '((a b c) (d e f) (g h i))) x) => ((a b c) (d e f x) (g h i)) 03:39:37 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:09 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:31 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host86-138-194-163.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 03:43:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 03:46:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:46:43 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:46:51 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:15 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:35 sid3k` [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:41 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:49:51 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 03:50:22 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:10 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 04:01:03 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:13 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:12:28 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:14:40 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15:11 nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.12] has joined #lisp 04:15:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:17:29 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.127.94] has left #lisp 04:17:47 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:23:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:24:49 -!- bzzbzz` [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:25:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kqfdlswmjfijsfpi] has joined #lisp 04:27:59 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-193.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:47 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 04:34:17 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:57 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:35:19 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 04:35:41 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:39:01 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:04 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:44:12 how do i makunbound a symbol naming a struct to redefine it as a class? 04:44:18 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 04:44:35 hmm 04:44:58 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-91-178.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:45:02 everytime i type "defstruct", I know I am making an error, but I could never stop myself. 04:46:58 Good morning! 04:46:59 echo-area: You don't load packages in CL. 04:48:21 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 04:48:38 kqr: (defun second (x y) (declare (ignore x y)) '((a b c) (d e f x) (g h i))) 04:48:54 nunb [~nundan@59.178.197.188] has joined #lisp 04:51:53 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:55:12 fusss: defstruct is a good source of nasal demons if you plan on doing a lot of interactive dev :) 04:55:33 so it's good to stay away from defstruct unless you know exactly what you want, or you're willing to restart your lisp image. 04:59:03 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:07:31 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:16 fusss: simply uninterning the symbol usually works for me 05:12:25 if that's not what you want, try (setf (find-class name) nil) 05:14:41 drewc: cheers! 05:15:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:36 cxml gurus, any way to find an element with a certain attribute? getElementByAttribute(element-name, attribute, attribute-value)? 05:16:19 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:44 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:12 fusss pasted "get-elements-by-attribute" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97479 05:23:05 I wrote a package that I can load and use with asdf, but I need to load the package from another package... 05:23:35 when I use asdf:load-op everything comiles fine but there is a message saying that functions are undefined 05:23:49 those are the functions that are in the package I am trying to load 05:23:58 fusss: dunno about DOM, but I think I could cook up something for STP in applicative style 05:24:17 I'm usine :depends-on (#:general) in my asd file 05:24:30 would someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? 05:24:46 fusss: however, getting it to do only one pass would probably cause some interestingly looking code. 05:24:55 minion: tell fatblueduck about lisppaste 05:24:55 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 05:25:10 fatblueduck: please use the paste to show us your code 05:25:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:25:28 p_1: ok one moment... 05:26:09 *p_l* is in despair at the state of fonts used in IRC clients 05:27:06 I understand it's only 4 pixels difference, but 1 != l ;_; 05:28:07 p_l :S sorry 05:28:46 fatblueduck: you're not the only person to misread it like that, I'm just in despair at how often this happens (especially since it can cause more problems than IRC misspellings) 05:28:49 I was clumsy. the fonts on here don't look too bad 05:28:56 rxvt/cygwin 05:29:10 *p_l* recommends Consolas 05:29:20 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 05:29:35 or Monaco. Monaco is good too 05:32:02 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.249.222] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 05:33:47 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:17 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:35:22 fatblueduck pasted "sinewave.asd and general.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97480 05:36:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:41 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:36:57 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:11 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:41 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-foihfswannjnczfe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:48 fatblueduck: :depends-on at defsystem level tells ASDF what *systems* to load, not files 05:37:59 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-esifatdktqwnegur] has joined #lisp 05:38:38 p_l: ok I'll specify the file in a load statement above "SineWave" 05:38:52 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:24 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:39:41 p_l annotated #97480 "Corrected for fatblueduck" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97480#1 05:40:20 this one tells ASDF to load files/modules in the order they are defined (:serial t) 05:40:38 You can also place dependencies for each file/module directly in their spec 05:41:36 p_l: I made this change and I still couldn't use pyth 05:41:46 p_l annotated #97480 "Example ASDF definition from computer-class (uses non-standard extensions that are defined in full file, though)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97480#2 05:41:46 p_l: I'll try closing out emacs and starting fresh 05:42:01 fatblueduck: you need to reload your asd file 05:42:20 simple (load ) will suffice 05:42:33 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:36 because ASDF thinks the system is defined already and uses previously loaded definition 05:42:47 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@3e44a334.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:42:51 this way you'll force it to reload system 05:43:17 mega1 [~quassel@3e44a334.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:44:24 p_l: I started slime, I used asdf:load-op to load sinewave 05:44:31 p_l: I entered sinewave 05:44:52 p_l: I tried to use pyth and pyth was undefined 05:45:16 but pyth is in general, which asdf should be loading ahead of sinewave 05:46:30 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 05:48:11 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:11 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:48:11 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 05:48:49 fatblueduck: you need to declare dependency on "general.lisp" the way I put it in first annotation , otherwise ASDF won't load it properly 05:49:41 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:59 fatblueduck annotated #97480 "current sinewave.asd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97480#3 05:50:33 p_l: ahh ok then thank you! 05:51:44 I did that and it didn't have an observable effect 05:52:47 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:54:07 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 05:54:43 fatblueduck: yeah, you need to reload asdf file through a normal (load ) 05:54:59 then you need to do (asdf:load-op :sinewave) again 05:56:03 p_l: ok. do I need to do that each time I want to use sinewave.asd? 05:56:30 p_l: is there a way to automate the loading so that I can load sinewave.asd and just begin using it? 05:57:19 fatblueduck: all rather current versions of SLIME have ,reload-system command 05:57:34 I just gave a rather generic description :) 05:58:13 C-c C-k RET 05:58:38 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44a334.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:47 *p_l* finds it a very bad idea that GCL is top result for "common lisp linux" in Google. CLISP's second place isn't that bad, but CMU CL is third, ALUwiki is 4th, Allegro is 6th.... 06:00:16 SBCL isn't on first page at all, except that my HOWTO is 7th, and it recommends SBCL -_-; 06:01:17 p_l: I'm certain that I'm loading the sinewave file fresh, I've even restarted emacs once or twice and re-typed everything 06:01:59 I'm not able to use functions from 'general' when I am in the 'sinewave' package 06:02:05 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:03:09 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:13 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:03:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:04:08 fatblueduck: did you import pyth in sinewave? 06:04:16 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:04:27 -!- wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:36 or rather, did you do (defpackage :sinewave (:use :cl :duck.general)) ? 06:04:37 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 06:04:37 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:05:08 p_l: no I didn't! I will try now! 06:05:16 p_l: thanks 06:05:39 fatblueduck: without that, you need to use qualified names (i.e. duck.general:pyth) 06:11:13 Ogedei [~user@e178217131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:18 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 06:11:28 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-119-86.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:50 p_l: when I first tried to load-op sinewave, a message told me that there was no :duck.general (but there is) 06:12:31 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-119-86.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:12:45 p_l: so I used load-op general and then load-op sinewave, and then I was able to use pyth from within sinewave 06:14:12 LOOP; i am collecting something that i need to return in a finally clause, howe can i refer to the collectand (the thing i am collecting by "name") sort of AS in SQL 06:14:21 but shouldn't (:use #:cl #:duck.general) be possible? 06:14:40 without using load-op general first? 06:15:37 (loop for x from 0 to 10 collecting x {as number-list} finally (reduce #'+ {number-list}) 06:15:46 where {stuff} is what i am not sure of 06:15:59 p_l: thank you for getting me this far :) 06:16:17 p_l: if I don't figure out how to get it working the way I want, at least it is working... 06:16:29 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.61] has joined #lisp 06:16:31 of course, i can (reduce #'+ (loop for x from 0 to 10 collecting x)) 06:22:09 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:23:40 xan_ [~xan@83.38.73.242] has joined #lisp 06:24:29 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 06:24:29 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:54 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:45 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:18 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:30:11 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:15 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-5eea0b73-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 06:35:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:46 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:26 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:53 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:46:38 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:53:22 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:54:01 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:55:17 fusss: I think that's the preferred way 06:55:35 btw, who is responsible for SBCL's webpage? 06:57:03 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 06:59:42 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:01:10 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:01:47 *p_l* notes that his ASDF-related project is eerily similar to cclan 07:01:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:12 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:03:08 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:43 Good morning! 07:06:39 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.117] has joined #lisp 07:06:45 morning! relaxing on the beach with laptop in hand? 07:07:43 Adamant: I wish! I'm at work. 07:07:47 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 07:08:18 ah. in .vn or .fr? 07:08:45 Bordeaux (unfortunately)! 07:09:19 lol, not that I've visited Bordeaux, but I would think there are probably worse places to be. :P 07:09:37 True! 07:09:54 *p_l* is frightened by his position in google search when it comes to CL 07:09:57 good morning 07:10:17 hello nikodemus 07:10:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:35 p_l: there isn't a designated web person -- any dev who has the time and inclination is responsible 07:11:06 Adamant: The colleague in the office next door just came back from Vietnam (first time outside Europe), and he is ready to go back tomorrow if the opportunity were given to him. 07:11:16 but typically whoever makes the release is reponsible for the associated updates, ditto for those uploading binaries 07:11:17 spiaggia: ah, cool 07:11:49 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:05 nikodemus: Ok, so if I made a template + some content for a replacement website (not much content replacing as making the page slightly better) I could just send a link to patch/package to SBCL dev mailing list? 07:13:15 p_l: sure. though unless it has equivalent or better construction tools as the current website, the chances of adoption are low 07:13:23 It's just that I was lately working on some SEO (not the mass scale stuff, just on "how to make the page parse-able" etc), then found that my humble quickstart for CL on linux is 7th place for "common lisp linux" and there's no SBCL on the first page 07:13:31 nikodemus: what construction tools are there? 07:13:42 p_l: see the sbcl-home module in cvs, which contains the website building code 07:13:47 ok 07:13:53 -!- derefed [~derefed@cpe-74-65-181-129.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:14:10 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:37 derefed [~derefed@cpe-74-65-181-129.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:42 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:14:44 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:56 p_l: the important thing is that updating the webpage for a new release should not involved updating html by hand 07:15:08 involve, even 07:15:31 good morning 07:16:21 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 07:16:55 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:17:48 nikodemus: that shouldn't be hard to achieve 07:18:15 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 07:18:16 actually, if I'm successful, a big chunk of tools probably wouldn't even need a change 07:22:24 *fusss* goes back to remove comments from an awesomely ugyl one-page function 07:26:13 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:26:35 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:26:59 fusss pasted "lil in the middle but got much back" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97483 07:27:52 fusss: do you know of a proven, working XML canonicalization library for CL? 07:28:14 p_l: neat. do you have a link to a working model, or a screenshot or something? 07:28:47 nikodemus: no, the idea just got started less than 2h ago :) 07:28:49 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:54 ok :) 07:29:00 And I'm lately dabbling with XHTML/HTML5, CSS and JS :D 07:29:27 p_l: define canonicalization 07:30:01 fusss: there's some "canonical form" for XML documents that is used for generating hashes 07:30:24 p_l: before you spend too much time, a mockup might be good -- it would be a real shame if you expend a lot of effort and the consensus is "meh, we like the old one better" 07:30:43 fusss: so that no matter how garbled the input is, you can get consistent hashes 07:31:41 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:31:47 nikodemus: Actually, I didn't really wanted to make very visible changes to how the site looks, but I wanted to redo some of the internal HTML in hopes of removing GCL from the 1st spot for "common lisp linux" xD 07:32:04 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:32:04 p_l: no idea 07:32:14 p_l: i'm all for that :) 07:32:38 huh, we're not even on the first page 07:33:51 nikodemus: I'm actually there as 7th. And given low overall quality of my blog and that entry, that's not good. 07:33:52 clealry Our Man At Google isn't as useful in this regard as one might expect :) 07:34:55 that's personalized search results for you -- i don't see you there 07:36:00 p_l: are you tuxdeluxe? 07:36:07 nikodemus: that means it got changed :) 07:36:10 (and good) 07:37:07 ... nope. Went with clean browser, I'm 8th ("unya") 07:37:18 oh, right 07:37:21 i missed you 07:37:23 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:37:54 mind you, now that I learned a little more about search engines, I got my title tag spot-on... 07:38:40 i get gcl, clisp, cmucl, tux deluxe's road to lisp, danb's telent page, allegro, cmucl man page, you, lispbox, gentoo user guide, another page from danb, cliki, clozure, acl free version, lispworks myths and legends, results of lisp survey, third-party page about gcl... 07:38:44 this is saf 07:38:47 sad, even 07:38:50 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:44 I'll begin to include to SBCL in my blog posts 07:39:54 a link that is 07:40:14 nikodemus: that's why I was considering doing some work on sbcl homepage, as well as on CLiki (I actually proposed to a friend that we will use it as a practical exercise in his lisp learning...) 07:40:20 merl15 [~merl@188-22-16-88.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:40:40 :) 07:41:51 <_8david`> p_l: canonical xml used to be cxml's only serialization mode, and is still available as an option 07:41:59 _8david`: yay! 07:42:16 _8david`: that means I can do XML signing! xD 07:42:38 <_8david`> (I'd be surprised if a good XML parser didn't support it, because the XML test suite uses it.) 07:42:58 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 07:43:16 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:43:31 _8david`: hey 07:43:55 _8david`: i have an infanct soap library using cxml 07:44:16 _8david`: i want to make it into a cxml addon 07:44:29 I've mostly made macros following how-tos... how does one know that a macro is needed rather than a function? 07:44:56 does cxml have some kind of "plugin" architecture or is everything used as documented? 07:45:29 meaning, do i have to do anything more than just using cxml as any other client code? 07:45:30 fatblueduck: there's a chapter on that in "On Lisp" 07:45:43 fusss: I figure you don't need to do anything, really 07:45:44 p_l: okay thanks 07:46:43 btw, I need some advice: Should I go with buildapp, or cl-launch? I want to package one of them and use it to autogenerate executables for projects 07:48:27 <_8david`> fusss: no, "addon" is just a fancy term on the web page for "random asdf system that depends on cxml" 07:49:09 <_8david`> well, not entirely random perhaps, the addon list on the homepage includes those projects that I've worked on myself. :-) 07:49:31 *p_l* loves CXML-STP, btw 07:50:24 <_8david`> Since we're going to start using antifuchs's cxml-rpc now, I guess it's overdue to add that to the addon list, too. 07:50:27 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 07:51:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:51:43 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:52:57 is it CXML-based XML-RPC? 07:54:32 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:03 hello 08:01:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kqfdlswmjfijsfpi] has left #lisp 08:02:00 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:11 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7552d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:04:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 08:04:49 fusss pasted "we're not test-compatible with cl-soap" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97486 08:04:58 grrrr 08:05:03 s/not/now/g 08:05:17 feudian skip 08:08:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.38.73.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:11:12 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:12:13 *p_l* lols at second freudian slip in a row 08:12:17 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:51 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-esifatdktqwnegur] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:13 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-suddumqquayqfjbz] has joined #lisp 08:15:01 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:15:15 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-201-110.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:19:34 hum. Any Windows user around? Can you try the latest asdf 1.670 ? 08:20:30 Fare: heh... i was copying that image for you and managed to run out of space on the server i was copying it to :( 08:21:08 gah 08:21:10 congrats 08:22:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22:39 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:33 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:49 freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.226.223] has joined #lisp 08:32:11 afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has joined #lisp 08:32:58 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 08:33:51 -!- freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.226.223] has left #lisp 08:36:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 08:36:23 'apt-get install git-core' is used to install Git. Right? 08:37:23 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 08:38:32 probably 08:38:38 apt-file search /usr/bin/git 08:38:43 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:48 ask on #debian 08:39:02 longkid: yes 08:39:21 thanks 08:39:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:41:42 luckily, Git is installed in my Ubuntu 08:44:56 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has quit [Quit: longkid] 08:45:22 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 08:46:22 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 08:46:52 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has quit [Client Quit] 08:47:13 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 08:49:34 stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-snqjlbpyadqjljvh] has joined #lisp 08:49:37 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-suddumqquayqfjbz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:33 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:51:53 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:52:44 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:53:21 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 08:53:54 grrrr, i have two nested quotes and can't seem to get a function to be invoked at macroexpansion time 08:55:01 `(with-foo (bar baz) '((quux ,(frob-bar bar)))) 08:55:22 i want to frob-bar the argument bar at macroexpansion time 08:56:03 instead of '((quux frobbed-bar-val)) I am getting the literal (FROB-BAR BAR) 08:58:11 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 08:58:54 fusss: impossible, you must have another quote somewhere 09:00:23 or your second quote is actually a backquote 09:00:50 either way, you're not telling me the whole story ;) 09:00:52 fusss pasted "quote frob-bar head" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97487 09:01:30 drewc: eye-ball it if you have time please 09:01:42 i get that done and i am ready to lather and soap 09:02:02 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:46 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:07 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.21] has joined #lisp 09:04:12 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:05:12 rswarbrick [rupert@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 hello 09:12:19 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:27 fusss: how does xml-emitter:with-tag evaluate its arguments? do you need that QUOTE at all? 09:14:22 drewc: yeah :-/ 09:14:45 i might have to move away from xml-emitter and go fully cxml 09:14:46 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-84-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15:14 emitter has prettier interface, but we already use cxml so i might as well prettify that 09:15:41 thank you #lisp and good night 09:16:00 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 09:18:02 ... heh 09:18:48 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 09:22:34 -!- stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-snqjlbpyadqjljvh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:51 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-czsxydxhtstmqnns] has joined #lisp 09:22:55 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-114-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:25:08 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7DEA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:26:04 vng [~user@123.20.103.134] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:50 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:34:25 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:52 _8david`: is there anyway to emit xml fragments? 09:38:18 <_8david`> well, what does that mean? 09:38:44 i want to emit simple tags 09:39:03 without the xml declaration 09:39:44 <_8david`> :omit-xml-declaration-p t 09:39:57 (defun simple-tag (key value) (with-xml-output (make-string-sink) (with-element key (text value)))) 09:40:17 what is that an argument to? make-*-sink? 09:40:23 <_8david`> right, to the sink 09:40:25 <_8david`> http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/sax.html#serialization 09:40:41 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:48 <_8david`> If you scroll a little, it's mentioned under "keyword arguments". 09:40:51 winn! 09:41:02 you rock david! 09:43:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B69B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:17 is there a single favorite (stand-out, most-popular, robust, etc.) linear algebra package for cl? 09:44:13 no 09:44:26 actually I just don't want to have to rewrite m*v, m*m, cross-product, normalize, etc 09:44:45 there are quite a few on cliki, hence my question 09:45:10 glls was too powerful for my tastes 09:45:13 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:17 bytecolor: I guess GSLL might be one of the easier accessible, but YMMV 09:45:27 yeah, gsll rather 09:45:42 that was actually one I was considering 09:45:55 easily the best, and best documented 09:46:23 function names are lispified beyond recognition though, so you might need some extra intuition 09:46:25 good docs are always a plus ;) 09:46:32 ah 09:48:22 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:50:03 nod, I see there is (gsl-lookup) for cross ref 09:52:45 poor man's apropos, imo 09:53:03 yeah, on second thought, that is way more than I need O_o 09:54:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:11 abilli [~abilli@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 09:54:18 Hello 09:54:34 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54:45 Does anyone know how to remove (flush) temp values in Slime ? 09:55:04 because it loads only the first value of my config file 09:55:18 if I change something inside it keeps the old value 09:56:19 good nite! 09:56:21 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:56:58 abilli: are you referring to customize-group? 09:57:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:57:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:57:37 no 09:57:46 In a general way 09:58:08 does it exists a way of flushing buffered or tmp values ? 09:58:55 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:00:41 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:43 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:01:18 use defparameter rather than defvar 10:01:23 or use C-M-x to evaluate defvars 10:05:26 I already use defparameter 10:05:31 abilli: lisp's GC will deal with unreferenced values. are you talking about variables/symbols? 10:05:36 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:05:37 yes 10:05:52 I have a defparamater 10:06:10 abilli: either MAKUNBOUND or UNINTERN may help. 10:08:03 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 10:08:35 -!- Taggnostr [~x@86.50.69.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:08:51 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:09:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:26 thanks 10:09:26 abilli: it's unclear what you are refering too when you say 'buffered or tmp values' and what 'flushing' them would do 10:09:31 by C-M-x 10:09:36 refering to* 10:09:37 the parameter 10:09:39 it works 10:09:41 bye 10:09:45 -!- abilli [~abilli@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:17:29 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:54 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:17 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:24 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:23:33 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-119-86.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:23 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:24:36 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-119-86.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:24:44 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:23 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:25:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] 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timed out] 10:50:34 nunb [~nundan@59.178.198.126] has joined #lisp 10:51:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@a218-179.24online.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:51:57 -!- vng [~user@123.20.103.134] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:53:38 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:57:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:28 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 11:01:29 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:08:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.68.220] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:47 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bxjriacahucpoyil] has joined #lisp 11:10:51 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:10:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:12:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.68.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:15:25 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:37 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:46 pers` [~user@p5DC73430.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:22:20 longkid pasted "Compile error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97488 11:23:26 -!- pers [~user@p5DC73F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:20 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 11:25:56 please help me http://paste.lisp.org/display/97488 11:25:58 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:16 ost [~ost@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:27:26 longkid: prepend (require :asdf) (require :mcclim) it could work. 11:28:22 better yet, write a defsystem for your project and indicate mcclim as a dependency 11:28:52 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:34 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:20 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37:13 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-114-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:03 echo-area pasted "compilation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97489 11:42:16 hi 11:43:18 here's what I run my program: 1) to compile, I use "cat z.lisp | sbcl". 2) to run, I use "cat y.lisp | sbcl". Is this the right usage? 11:43:22 clapautius [~me@188.26.53.136] has joined #lisp 11:43:32 y.lisp and z.lisp can be merged somehow, of course 11:43:33 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:43:44 s/right usage/common usage/ 11:44:26 <_8david`> minion: tell echo-area about buildapp 11:44:26 echo-area: have a look at buildapp: Buildapp is an application for SBCL that configures and saves an executable Common Lisp image. http://www.cliki.net/buildapp 11:44:38 <_8david`> minion: xach-asdf 11:44:38 xach-asdf: Xach's article "Making a small Common Lisp project" can be found at http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 11:45:41 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 11:48:53 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:49:34 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:50 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 11:53:25 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:53:58 carnieri [~carnieri@200.146.78.27] has joined #lisp 11:54:31 carnieri_ [~carnieri@200.146.78.27.static.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:54:31 -!- carnieri [~carnieri@200.146.78.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:58 -!- carnieri_ [~carnieri@200.146.78.27.static.gvt.net.br] has left #lisp 11:55:19 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has left #lisp 12:00:10 baihualing110 [~baihualin@125.39.138.237] has joined #lisp 12:01:00 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:01:32 -!- baihualing110 [~baihualin@125.39.138.237] has left #lisp 12:02:05 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:38 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:06:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:31 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:08:53 _8david`: thanks 12:09:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:39 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:09:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:00 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:12:17 addled [~adl@81.38.155.21] has joined #lisp 12:12:50 -!- addled [~adl@81.38.155.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:57 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 12:15:35 -!- Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:16:25 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.198.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:01 nunb [~nundan@59.178.206.151] has joined #lisp 12:18:20 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:19:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:22 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:57 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:29:53 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:51 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bxjriacahucpoyil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:22 Guthur [~Michael@host86-138-194-163.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:51 plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:37:57 Good afternoon! 12:38:31 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:39:19 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:29 krl [~user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:59 How does a typical implementation handle #n= and #n# in the reader? 12:41:22 How do i set where sbcl looks for .fasl files when using #'require? it's not finding the asdf.fasl in the clbuild/source/sbcl/... "Don't know how to REQUIRE ASDF" 12:41:54 plage: i'm not sure, but if i wanted to investigage, i'd use M-. on the result of (get-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\=) and #\# #\# 12:42:11 Xach: Sure. 12:42:16 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-80-99-198-11.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:30 plage: in sbcl, that includes quite a bit of exposition in a prose comment 12:42:45 OK, I'll go read it. 12:44:17 fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has joined #lisp 12:46:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-80-99-198-11.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48:08 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0553.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:48:08 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0553.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 12:48:08 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:49:53 krl: look at cl-user::*module-provider-functions* 12:49:58 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:00 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has quit [Quit: humhum] 12:50:23 krl: in SBCL it should contain initially sb-impl::module-provide-contrib 12:51:07 edhembi [~edhembi@salle007.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 12:51:19 hello 12:51:41 i have a question for the function load 12:51:41 ost: yes it does 12:52:03 krl: that error commonly follows a botched fasl deletion... 12:52:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mgqosoygveuebkic] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 i got sbcl through clbuild install sbcl, and then built it in the source directory. this might not be the intended way 12:52:36 does anyone know how it works 12:52:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:55 i used variables which are defined in a file 12:54:14 and i have to used them in another file 12:54:33 p_l: i removed all fasls 12:54:33 i want to do a load to the file with the variable 12:54:49 edhembi: What seems to be the problem? 12:55:25 bonjour monsieur 12:55:26 edhembi: Are you doing the .compta? 12:55:31 yes sir 12:55:53 devsundar [~meenu@122.167.26.210] has joined #lisp 12:56:13 edhembi: defparameter your variables in (say) gui.lisp. In the .compta, start with an (in-package :compta-gui) and then (setf ...) the variables. 12:56:47 that's what i have done 12:56:57 and it doesn't work? 12:57:49 when i launch for the first time the program 12:57:54 -!- krl [~user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 12:57:59 i have to compile first 12:58:00 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:07 Stale fasl? 12:58:19 edhembi: No, you can just load the source file. 12:58:29 otherwise i have warnings 12:58:38 What do the warnings say? 12:59:25 SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 19 (line 1, column 19) on #: 12:59:25 package "COMPTA-GUI" not found 12:59:26 [Condition of type SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR] 12:59:49 -!- devsundar [~meenu@122.167.26.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:59:55 when i compile it works 13:00:01 edhembi: You should load the file inside the function that starts the program. 13:00:14 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:00:19 (defun compta () (load ...) (run-frame-toplevel ...)) 13:00:26 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 Xach: The source says "the object is searched". Does that mean that it has to know how too search all types of CL objects? I can't see where it does that. 13:02:47 maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 plage: I would M-. on circle-subst to learn more. 13:03:08 "substitutes arrays and structures as well as lists" 13:04:17 plage: i think that covers the standard, READ-able objects that can hold arbitrary objects, right? 13:04:44 hmm 13:04:46 Xach: I was just wondering what happens if I have a read macro that returns a class instance. 13:05:14 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:33 it doesn't work 13:05:52 maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:06:15 i have done load ".compta" in defun compta 13:06:16 edhembi: I'll be there in a few minutes. 13:06:26 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:52 where? 13:07:37 edhembi: Where he expects you to be. 13:08:17 (Either that, or where he expects you to be able to find him.) 13:10:12 adl_ [~adl@89.Red-83-36-62.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:25 -!- adl_ [~adl@89.Red-83-36-62.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:54 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:37 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:37 quit 13:13:54 thank you sir 13:13:59 good bye 13:14:02 -!- edhembi [~edhembi@salle007.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1] 13:14:44 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.180] has joined #lisp 13:16:49 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:08 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:08 -!- ost [~ost@217.198.9.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19:16 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host86-138-194-163.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:21:27 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 13:21:55 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:22:04 Hmm, what is that type INSTANCE? 13:22:38 hello spiaggia 13:22:40 -!- plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:14 spiaggia: SBCL? structures or classes. 13:25:32 pkhuong: Ah, OK. 13:25:35 hello mvilleneuve 13:25:47 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:31 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:53 -!- ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:36:09 -!- Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:37:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:31 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:41 adl_ [~adl@81.38.155.21] has joined #lisp 13:38:54 -!- adl_ [~adl@81.38.155.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:02 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:39:41 Controller [~server@adsl-243-194-37.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:30 -!- Controller [~server@adsl-243-194-37.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:42:30 Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has joined #lisp 13:43:02 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 13:43:43 carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.38] has joined #lisp 13:46:45 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:49:53 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:50:29 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:51:44 ``Erik_ [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:14 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 13:52:39 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:59 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 13:53:02 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 13:57:30 mega1 [~quassel@53d82610.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:59:19 So does that mean that it is not possible to write a portable reader? 13:59:45 That will come as news to pjb. 14:00:31 Would't one need the MOP to find out what slots an object has? 14:00:31 spiaggia: How do you come to that conclusion? 14:00:46 .oO(???) 14:01:47 tcr: Am I wrong? 14:01:58 What do slots of a reader have to do with the reader? 14:02:09 s/a reader/objects/ 14:02:18 being able to support #S 14:02:24 tcr: Suppose I write a read macro and attach it to the [ character. 14:02:44 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:02 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 14:03:09 tcr: It returns an instance of one of my classes. Now I do #1=[bla #1#] so that a class isntance is return from the read. 14:03:54 tcr: The reader must then fill in the slot in which the circular reference is stored, because it's value is not known until after the object has been read. 14:04:22 tcr: tcr So the reader must know how to access the slots of that object in order to replace a reference. 14:04:32 tcr: Or am I missing something? 14:04:51 Isn't that the duty of the #\[ reader macro? 14:05:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:11 tcr: And what do you suggest it do? 14:05:15 but the point about #S is well taken 14:05:23 actually, I'm not sure that #S is difficult 14:05:42 maybe it is 14:05:47 clhs #s 14:05:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhm.htm 14:06:17 what does a particular reader macro have to do with the reader itself? 14:06:33 it's not a particular reader macro 14:06:37 adeht: See my example above. 14:06:42 it's the interaction of a reader macro with #1= and #1# 14:06:50 "and if the structure type has a standard constructor function" 14:07:12 does this mean that no :constructor is given to the defstruct definition? 14:07:44 tcr: yes, but: consider (defstruct foo a) #1=S(FOO :A #1#) 14:07:46 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:47 tcr: What action would you suggest that the reader macro take in order to resolve the problem? 14:08:05 your task is to write the #= dispatch reader macro, portably, so that that works 14:08:39 then once you've done that, your task is to extend it, portably, so that #1=[my-std-class :a #1#] works 14:10:22 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 14:11:16 ... Why is this a problem? 14:11:50 I wonder if one could make use of make-load-form for that purpose 14:12:00 Krystof: but aren't #= ## reader macros as well?.. so where's the reader in all that? 14:12:13 The problem with #S is that you need some way to get a list of slots, but ## can be handled via a recursive read, surely? 14:12:30 nyef: how does that work with circular references? 14:12:51 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.74.57] has joined #lisp 14:12:52 adeht: how would you make it work, if that's not a problem? 14:13:03 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:13 we might be disagreeing on the meaning of "reader" 14:13:14 pkhuong: Because a recursive read doesn't clear the set of already-bound #= markers? 14:13:25 pkhuong: I never tried to make it work, hence my question 14:13:44 nyef: Again, I might be missing something, but it seems to me that the reader macro for s( or [ in this case would have to return the object before the reader can fix up the reference. But then the reader needs to search the object and change the reference. 14:13:45 nyef: right, so, how does #1=[my reader macro ... #1#] work? 14:13:50 I've never expected ## to work in custom reader macros 14:13:58 tcr: Wow! 14:14:21 maybe it's supposed to :-) just never crossed my mind 14:14:35 I am assuming SBCL handles the examples above, right? 14:14:44 -!- Riqpe [riqpe@pingtimeout.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:52 spiaggia: take a look at a gsharp save file :-) 14:14:56 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:14:57 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:01 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:01 Yeah. 14:15:14 *I* certainly assumed it worked. 14:15:20 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 spiaggia: for standard reader macros? yes. 14:15:31 pkhuong: No for custom ones. 14:15:49 for custom ones too, pkhuong 14:15:59 Okay, I'm at a loss, then. 14:16:04 as Xach suggested, take a look at circle-subst in src/code/sharpm.lisp 14:16:14 certainly not portable 14:16:48 Krystof: for custom ones, my expectations are low, regardless of the implementation (: 14:16:53 But the MOP should be sufficient, at least for standard objects. 14:17:06 I believe so 14:17:38 It might be tricky for people who play with metaclasses where slots are stored in special variables. 14:17:40 Seems fragile, though. 14:17:56 nyef: So what do you suggest instead? 14:18:01 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:32 I had kind of imagined that a special indirection object would be used, and that would be a special version of "unbound", which has to be tested for anyway. 14:18:36 I'm not sure I have anything to suggest, just that it seems to me that it would be possible to exceed the limits of this implementation. 14:18:51 -!- Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:22 But that definitely is *not* portable. 14:19:45 I'll take your word for it, then. 14:21:03 How about (defclass foo () ()) (defclass foo () ((slot :type foo))), and doing the cyclic reader macro thing from a custom reader macro in an implementation which checks slot types? 14:21:49 tcr: that's more what I was worried about. 14:22:11 can one forward declare structure types in sbcl? 14:22:15 not usefully 14:22:33 with your structures-as-classes patch? :-) 14:22:45 I think even less usefully 14:22:53 but thanks for reminding me that I used to be a lisp hacker 14:23:36 gonna change :-) 14:24:14 tcr: You can define a superclass first. 14:27:31 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28:24 Riqpe [riqpe@194.187.214.67] has joined #lisp 14:28:52 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 14:29:43 pavelludiq1 [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqhvcznlfatdxlzr] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 tcr: Your example with slot types makes things "interesting". Because a slot may be too small to store the indirection reference. 14:34:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:34:47 spiaggia: if it can't store the dummy reference, how can it store the reference's future value? 14:35:24 ephcon [~ephcon@student165-213.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:28 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student165-213.hampshire.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:35:54 (defstruct foo) (defstruct bar (a (missing-arg) :type foo)) #1=#s(bar :a #1#) 14:35:55 pkhuong: Ah, right, the future reference must be a surrounding object, or it could be resoloved immediately. 14:36:10 uh, wait, sorry, let me try again 14:36:44 (defstruct (bar (:include foo)) (a (missing-arg) :type foo)) #1=#s(bar :a #1#) 14:37:26 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:37:29 Krystof: I think we can even do (defstruct foo (a (missing-arg) :type foo))? 14:37:36 Controller [~server@adsl-243-194-37.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:36 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:42 -!- Controller [~server@adsl-243-194-37.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:37:42 Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has joined #lisp 14:37:43 Krystof: What does that example show? 14:37:53 (I'm not so good with defstruct) 14:38:15 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.3] has joined #lisp 14:38:40 oxamus [~55c89673@gateway/web/freenode/x-qvyvnvvtgyrbpofy] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 okay I have a problem with some code 14:38:56 last line 14:39:01 "))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))" 14:39:05 what is wrong? 14:39:08 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:15 it's trying to illustrate the generic impossibility of constructing an appropriate dummy reference 14:39:18 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 14:39:25 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-qvyvnvvtgyrbpofy 14:39:34 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 14:39:34 -!- oxamus [~55c89673@gateway/web/freenode/x-qvyvnvvtgyrbpofy] has left #lisp 14:40:34 (defstruct foo (a (missing-arg) :type (and foo (satisfies slot-b-is-goldbach-conjecture-counterexample))) b) 14:43:00 oxamus: I expect you should really decompose that expression into functions, because that's some really bad lisp code 14:43:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:36 dlowe: please do not feed the departed troll 14:44:07 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-91-178.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:18 mgst00 [~mgst00@c-24-91-179-192.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:23 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: ] 14:46:23 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 14:46:46 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:47:13 benny [~benny@i577A7F6C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:48:36 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 14:50:19 I wonder how grumpiness correlates with opportunity to hack 14:51:26 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:52:01 davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:53:40 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:50 hi guys, i'm a CL newb and I'm working with opengl using the common lisp opengl packages that are in the ubuntu 9.10 repos. I noticed that /usr/share/common-lisp/source/opengl/opengl/glu.lisp does not have bindings set up for gluUnProject, which I want to use to convert a mouse click to actual coordinates. I looked at the current methods for setting up the binding, and they seem pretty straight-forward, except some of the 14:54:50 methods take variables like "(obj-x (* gl:double))"; I believe the (* gl:double) part is saying "pass me a pointer to a double" because that's what the original c function works, but I have no idea how to do this in lisp; any ideas? 14:55:14 Krystof: What does (missing-arg) do (I guess I still don't understand). 14:55:18 Samuel9999 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 14:55:46 spiaggia: (error "Missing argument to structure constructor") 14:55:54 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-36-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:57 spiaggia: ensure that if not initialized, it signals an error 14:56:22 I've been thinking of changing DEFSTRUCT to specially recognize it so to say the slot name in the error message 14:57:28 tcr: A constructor with required arguments also works :) 14:58:08 unwieldy 14:58:57 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:21 longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.61] has quit [Quit: off] 15:02:30 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:06:08 can you specify types for variables/values in common lisp? 15:06:46 a lot of the opengl functions require "double-float"s, but i don't know how to create a "double-float" and it complains when I try to send it regular floats 15:07:07 1.5d0 15:07:25 -!- mgst00 [~mgst00@c-24-91-179-192.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401064631]] 15:07:32 jdz: if i have a variable "x", can I do "xd0"? 15:07:43 gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:52ff:fe76:8913] has joined #lisp 15:07:47 davertron: variables don't have types, values have. 15:08:29 jdz: ok, so how can i "cast" a variable i get from some other function to a double-float? 15:08:30 davertron: the function FLOAT will turn numbers into floats of a particular type. 15:08:38 Xach: thanks 15:08:38 sorry, return floats of a particular type 15:08:53 e.g. (float 42 1.0d0) => 42.0d0 15:08:54 davertron: check out FLOAT or COERCE 15:09:16 hello 15:09:17 jdz: thanks, will do 15:09:25 jdz: any ideas about the pointer thing i mentioned above? 15:10:28 davertron: check the sources if it has the function you're looking for 15:10:56 davertron: if it does not have a sane wrapper, then look into the FFI library that is being used 15:11:06 jdz: I just added it, the same way that the other functions are added 15:11:18 jdz: but i don't know how to create "double pointers" in CL... 15:11:31 jdz: or if it even makes sense to talk about pointers in CL realy 15:11:39 davertron: exactly, that is an FFI question 15:11:53 jdz: k, i'll look at FFI then 15:12:04 davertron: therefore "i just added it, the same way that the other functions are added" most probably will not work 15:12:10 -!- Samuel9999 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Quit: co co] 15:12:14 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:17 jdz: figured, that would be too easy :) 15:12:26 davertron: except if the other functions deal with passing pointers 15:12:31 jdz: they do 15:12:35 jdz: just a few 15:12:49 jdz: but i couldn't find any example code that calls those functions, so i couldn't see how they're being called 15:14:00 please help me http://paste.lisp.org/display/97488 15:14:01 jdz: sorry, I'm a liar 15:14:16 jdz: some of the functions use "(* gl:int)" 15:14:16 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 15:14:32 jdz: so maybe there is no "(* gl:double)" at all... 15:14:34 longkid: You need to have CLIM loaded. 15:14:51 -!- gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:52ff:fe76:8913] has left #lisp 15:14:54 davertron: check the FFI documentation on how to do it for double 15:15:05 OK, so what was wrong with my suggestion to handle ## the same way that unbound might be done, i.e. store an indirect object in the slot and check and fix when an access is attempted. 15:15:24 Not that it's portable either. 15:15:50 jdz: i'm learning a lot about lisp all at once, so i'm probably doing some dumb things 15:16:12 davertron: these are just declarations for the FFI. 15:16:17 *spiaggia* leaves work 15:16:19 spiaggia: do you check all file at http://common-lisp.net/project/sudoku/ ? 15:16:20 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 15:16:26 -!- pookleblinky` [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:38 longkid: Nobody told me that they had changed. 15:17:07 pkhuong: what do you mean? 15:17:09 spiaggia: No. I haven't committed my changed 15:17:53 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:18:28 davertron: read the examples, they should give you an idea of how C values (e.g. pointers to doubles) are handled as lisp values or created from lisp values. 15:18:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 15:18:52 pkhuong: thanks, will do 15:19:47 kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 15:20:19 -!- pavelludiq1 [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqhvcznlfatdxlzr] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:21:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:21:51 spiaggia: Unboxed structure slots, surely? 15:22:16 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 nyef: not an issue, since they can't contain circular references. 15:22:50 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:22:54 ephcon [~ephcon@student165-213.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 15:23:52 spiaggia: there are 4 files: packages.lisp, sudoku-algorithm.lisp, sudoku-gui.lisp, sudoku.asd 15:24:11 spiaggia: which file do I have to compile firstly? 15:25:26 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-17-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:25:42 longkid: The sudoku.asd is the ASDF system definition which contains the instructions to ASDF for how to build the rest. 15:26:47 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 15:27:10 nyef: OK. So how can I do with sudoku.asd to build the whole project? 15:27:30 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 15:28:45 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:28:58 -!- merl15 [~merl@188-22-16-88.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:08 minion: memo for stassats: It'd be nice if one could use package names (and hence their shorter nickname) for the slime asdf commands like ,reload-system etc 15:29:08 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 15:29:28 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:35 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:56 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:07 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:26 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-118-216.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:31:27 longkid: I think you can do "(asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :sudoku)", assuming the sudoku.asd file is somewhere your lisp can find it 15:31:36 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:32:37 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.5.104] has left #lisp 15:33:01 minion: memo for stassats: There does not seem to exist a slime-selector shortcut to get at the Compilation buffer. 15:33:01 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 15:33:21 ugh, it's pretty apparent after reading some of this cffi stuff that i'm probably in over my head... 15:33:42 that's a good feeling, it means you're learning 15:34:49 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:54 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:26 tcr: are you still running a local uncommitted swank debugger backend for ECL? I updated to the latest Slime, but the "9 and 0 are illegal as :START and :END for the sequence NIL." while cursoring through the sldb backtrace still happens 15:36:26 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:37:10 Yes 15:37:18 do you want it? 15:37:35 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:36 No harm in giving it a try. 15:37:59 I can't recall whether I adapted the sbcl backend enough to be able top cope with the changes 15:38:05 ok let me get it up 15:38:11 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:38:24 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:27 -!- sid3k` is now known as sid3k 15:38:57 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:50 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:13 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:46:46 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:31 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:48:08 You lucky bastard, no conflicts! 15:48:19 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mgqosoygveuebkic] has left #lisp 15:50:45 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 15:52:19 hefner: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/tmp/swank-debugger-rewrite.diff 15:52:34 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student165-213.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:37 hefner: two notes: a) that will only work with ECL; make sure to cp -a your slime checkout 15:53:12 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:37 hefner: b) there's still some format debugging output left in swank-ecl.lisp, search for *SLDB-IHS-BASE* 15:53:38 arkrost [~aravan@ppp91-122-94-142.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 15:54:19 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54:25 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 15:54:43 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:49 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:17 tcr: cool, I'll give that a try on my next restart cycle 15:56:40 I'd cp -a the slime checkout, apply the patch, and start a new independent emacs instance 15:57:08 and adjusting a symlink so you don't have to change your .emacs 15:57:29 I have lots of slime tree laying around and a symlink decides which one I use :-) 15:57:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:58:18 sounds like a better system than using some newfangled dvcs with lots of invisible, intangible branches :) 15:59:35 I'm a slow adopter of new technology 15:59:37 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:52 obviously; you use LISP. 16:00:02 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:44 Yeah :-( 16:01:52 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-5-225.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:02:53 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.162] has joined #lisp 16:04:56 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:06:47 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:17 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:11:08 -!- kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:11:11 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:15:29 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-133-85.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:00 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:59 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:19:57 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 16:21:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:25:33 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:25:55 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:27:37 Good evening! 16:27:42 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:44 Hello beach. 16:28:01 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.162] has joined #lisp 16:28:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:31 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:46 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:31:14 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:32:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 Seems like I cannot frob the Importance field on sbcl's LP 16:37:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:12 hi peeps 16:45:34 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:14 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 16:47:54 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:20 In an UWP cleanup clause, is there any kludgy chance to find out where the unwinding happened? Probably not because the cleanup forms are run after unwinding, but there may be some clever hack. Handler-bind on SERIOUS-CONDITION didn't trigger. 16:50:54 for example, is it possible to find out whether we're unwinding in search for a catch tag? 16:51:10 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:02 There's a better chance on windows than any other platform, I'm afraid. 16:52:14 hah how comes? 16:52:34 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:40 Because on windows, SBCL NLX goes via RtlUnwind, whereas everywhere else it just does its own thing. 16:53:55 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:54:14 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:54:34 -!- prip [~foo@host54-133-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:03 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:55:07 wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 16:55:59 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:14 hm that's interesting if I try to trace interrupt-thread, it shows that the repl-thread is constantly interrupted 16:58:26 prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:59:57 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:44 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-czsxydxhtstmqnns] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:56 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ysfvvhyrzjtkaofb] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 aha! 17:03:04 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 -!- ost` is now known as ost 17:03:17 it's due to use of with-timeout which installs timers which use interrupt-threads :-) 17:03:18 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:19 hello 17:03:21 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 hi! 17:04:46 hi 17:05:18 nyef: can I somehow get at the target of the unwind? Or the list of available targets at the point of the cleanup form? 17:07:13 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:31 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:10:49 SN|Muff|Nephir [~nurgledem@ABordeaux-253-1-46-200.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:10:57 Available targets at the point of the cleanup form, yes. You can trace the list of catch-blocks, and you can find the list of active restart clusters. 17:11:04 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:11:09 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:14 hi here 17:11:54 nyef: the latter I know how to do, hints for the former? 17:12:02 The target... Actually, you might be able to find the target of the unwind, on non-windows systems it gets stashed somewhere over the course of the unwind... 17:12:13 somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:12:39 The list of active catch-blocks is stored as a linked-list of catch-block structures pointed to by... SB-VM:*CURRENT-CATCH-BLOCK*, I think. 17:12:55 Untagged machine pointer in the value slot, which type-puns out to a fixnum as it's an aligned pointer. 17:13:06 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-184-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 17:14:02 From the catch-block you can get a frame-pointer, from the frame-pointer you can walk the stack to find the frame and return-pc to the frame, which will let you get the function... 17:14:13 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:39 So you do something like (sb-sysint-sap (get-lisp-obj-address 17:15:03 So you do something like (sb-sys:int-sap (sb-kernel:get-lisp-obj-address sb-vm:*current-catch-block*))) to get your starting pointer. 17:15:37 The catch-block structure is defined in src/compiler/generic/objdef, whatever package that is. 17:16:02 Actually I may just BREAK, slime shows catch tags for frames 17:16:15 Fair enough. 17:16:16 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:27 Umm... As far as finding the unwind target, the calling frame for the cleanup is the establishing frame, and the target catch-block is going to be one of the fields in its physenv. 17:17:40 Well a pointer to the target catch-block. 17:18:02 Unless you're on windows, then it's trickier. 17:18:41 (For details on how it's trickier, look at src/assembly/x86/assem-rtns.) 17:19:39 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:20:51 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:53 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:09 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:26:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:35 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:26:46 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:26:47 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:18 found it :-) 17:28:35 How idiotic, naming your own project LISP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSl1RAlFU3s&feature=digest 17:28:49 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:54 balooga: there's even some network RFC for a protocol or something which is called LISP, and it uses abbreviations like CAR, and CDR all over the place. 17:30:02 the power of LISP will save the internets. 17:30:04 Now I just don't remember whether it was a joke one, or not 17:30:10 tcr: it's real :( 17:31:30 CDR is just predestined for C... Data Record 17:31:54 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-78-31.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:32:57 -!- somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:29 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 17:34:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:34:34 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:02 -!- arkrost [~aravan@ppp91-122-94-142.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 17:36:41 arkrost [~aravan@ppp91-122-94-142.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:36:55 CDR is the Common Data Representation (object/message serialization) in CORBA 17:36:57 hmm, does CLOS inheritance normally work depth first or breadth first? 17:38:07 Hello #lisp 17:38:24 Hello mon_key. 17:38:38 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.249.222] has joined #lisp 17:39:03 Hi! When I played with sbcl it turened out that I can't defvar a variable with name type, but I can setf a value to it. It seems to me a bit strange! So can someone explain me such behavior? 17:39:27 clhs type 17:39:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_type.htm 17:39:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:21 arkrost: It looks like it's a non-conformance issue, you shouldn't be able to setf it either. 17:40:49 (You should probably be able to setf its symbol-value, but not setf it directly, nor define it as a variable or function.) 17:43:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:43:24 nyef: hello. 17:43:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:44:43 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:45:13 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 17:45:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 17:45:20 -!- afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has quit [Quit: afa] 17:45:37 arkrost: That section of the spec explains why it's not allowed. 17:46:22 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:38 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:41 Realized last night reading over the last few days irc logs from tunes.org that I should prob. be actively present here as a good deal of my routine daily struggles with CL are asked/answered here on a routine basis :) 17:46:57 *p_l* just seen the weirdest licensing scheme from Microsoft, ever. 17:47:21 p_l: Structure and Interpretation of Microsoft Licenses? 17:47:21 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:47:34 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-17-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:10 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 17:48:44 nyef: not really, but it happened with stuff that might be useful in terms of GUI 17:49:09 We have developed Visual TrueType to give more people access to TrueType hinting. We would like to license the tool to individuals and companies who are committed to improving the screen quality of the fonts they produce. However, as VTT is not a tool suitable for everyone, we recommend that you review the tutorials and instructions posted in our VTT resources section before contacting us. To receive Microsoft Visual ... 17:49:16 ... TrueType 4.2, please fax us the following: a) # A completed, signed copy of the Visual TrueType license agreement - Updated for VTT 4.2; b) A covering letter outlining your involvement in font production (required if this is your first VTT application) 17:50:04 That -is- a little odd. 17:50:27 Microsoft Typography guys made this one. 17:51:16 *p_l* just spent ~3h fighting with font embedding. 17:51:56 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 Ogedei: does postmodern support asynchronous notifications a la the LISTEN/NOTIFY sql commands? 17:54:30 arkrost: We generally prefer to discuss things in the channel, rather than through private message. Doing so allows other people to participate, either by learning and asking further questions or by teaching and providing additional detail. 17:54:32 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-160-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:58 I thought that there is no reserved words in lisp so teoretically I can write my own type declaration and then i'll be able to use symbol type 17:56:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:57:20 The idea of there not being reserved words in any programming language seems... odd, at best. 17:58:28 You can create your own symbol called "TYPE", but you can't redefine the one in the COMMON-LISP package. 17:59:46 Ok, How can it be done? 18:00:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:00:32 Define a new package, have it either not :use the common-lisp package or have it shadow the type symbol. 18:01:23 But, really, you're getting sufficiently far from the easy path that you might consider just using some name other than "type". 18:02:20 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 In fact I don't want to use this symbol. I just want to know if it's possible to do so. 18:03:44 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:55 And the answer is no, you can't use it to define a non-lexical variable, but you can use a different symbol with the same name. 18:04:24 (But, again, that's getting into the not-so-easy path.) 18:04:45 francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:05:34 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:50 _WOG_ [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:54 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ysfvvhyrzjtkaofb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:04 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-xfmnyfkxsfitfeyw] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 I use emacs. Is there a key combination to find method realisation in source files? 18:06:40 M-. 18:06:49 thanks 18:06:54 -!- arkrost [~aravan@ppp91-122-94-142.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 18:08:22 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:08:59 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:09:00 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-xfmnyfkxsfitfeyw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:43 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:13:20 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d82610.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:13 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.16.101] has joined #lisp 18:14:45 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.206.151] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:09 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082CAC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:11 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 18:17:35 nunb [~nundan@59.178.200.73] has joined #lisp 18:18:31 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E32F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:19:36 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:19:42 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:23 Anyone here succesfully using slime-repl w/ current SBCL, current Slime, and current Emacs > 23.1.93 on w32? 18:20:41 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:20:49 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:49 Hi there ! What is the "Good Way" to parse a float from a string (equivalent to parse-integer but for a real number) ? 18:23:49 I'm not, but I've had some combination of sbcl, slime and emacs running on win32 in the past. 18:23:57 lemoinem: READ? 18:24:03 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:08 I've found many solutions and I'm a little confused about the good one 18:24:32 lemoinem: The good one is the one that gets the job done, whatever the job is. 18:24:49 mon_key: So, what sort of trouble are you having with this combination? 18:25:01 nyef: I've seen some posts (e.g., on etack overflow) saying that read was really expensive, and I'll need it to be reasonably efficient 18:25:07 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:25:29 (stack, not etack) 18:25:42 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:50 Hi guys, I don't know if many are familiar with the RCL library (connecting R to CL); anyway somtimes the call to R returns divisions by zero. 18:25:57 nyef: I've had a workable combination since last summer but have not been able to use slime-repl as I am on similar linux combo. 18:26:41 To try to avoid such errors I used (handler-case (progn...) (division-by-zero() nil)) ... or something like that 18:26:46 mon_key: So, something between then and now broke? 18:26:51 nyef: not sure where the snag is. Whether its slime/sbcl/emacs/w32 18:26:56 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:23 nyef: I don't think its ever worked as expected on my w32 setup :( 18:27:28 lemoinem: if parsing/unparsing is the bottleneck, use a hex float format. 18:27:44 but then my problem is R funcation calls return pointers to values and if in only one of them there is a division by zero, I got just nil for everything 18:27:49 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:27:54 spiff [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:28:01 Hrm. Anything obviously wrong in the *inferior-lisp* buffer? 18:28:07 pkhuong: I'm not the one producing the float data unfortunately 18:28:08 Such as, say, sb-posix not being found? 18:28:11 -!- spiff [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:20 funcation == function (in my dialect) 18:28:32 nyef: Not that i see hang on. 18:28:33 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:38 minion: parse-number 18:28:39 parse-number: parse-number is a Library of functions which accept an arbitrary string and attempt to parse it into one of the standard Common Lisp number types, if possible, or else it signals an error of type invalid-number. http://www.cliki.net/parse-number 18:29:36 Or roll a simple dedicated parser, if you 18:29:41 re not too worried about precision. 18:29:55 nyef: I don't see sb-posix in *features* 18:30:09 mon_key: It's a contrib, not a feature. 18:30:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:27 What's actually going wrong with the REPL, then? 18:30:33 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:51 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 If you're doing IO, it's likely that the standard IO functions will show up high on the profile... I can believe that the most important part will be to read into a base-char vector. 18:33:03 nyef: at slime-repl CL-USER> (+ 1 3) 18:33:24 I'm getting this in *Messages* buffer: 18:33:28 error in process filter: Elisp destructure-case failed: (:write-string "4 " :repl-result) 18:33:53 ok, thanks nyef and pkhuong, I'll check parse-number and if performance are that much critical, I'll check about the dedicated parser 18:34:18 Xach: (about LISTEN/NOTIFY): Nope 18:35:25 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:34 Ogedei: I am adding it now. 18:35:39 Ogedei: I'll send a patch shortly. 18:35:52 Xach: Awesome! 18:35:56 nyef: sb-posix is present 18:37:26 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:38:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:58 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:39:48 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 http://plasek.rootnode.net/screenshots/2010-04-08_19:36_1280x800.png <--- visually nearly no change, practically some code-related SEO improvements 18:40:04 (SBCL webpage) 18:41:22 nyef: what is weird is everything else other than slime-repl seems to work (within reason for w32). The only things i can figure is maybe an encoding mismatch somewhere. 18:43:10 *p_l* personally would like to go all-out with redesign (of web pages) for SBCL and CLiki 18:44:02 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:46:35 nyef: sb-win32::*ansi-codepage* => :CP1252 and the Elisp side: slime-net-coding-system => utf-8-unix & default-process-coding-system => (utf-8-unix . utf-8-unix) 18:48:10 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 18:49:36 Ogedei, hi! any progress on a facebook album about the wienna lisp meeting? would be good to have some tagged pictures... 18:49:57 -!- daniel__1 is now known as daniel 18:52:02 mon_key, if you're using Windows, can you give a shot at ASDF 2 and its output-translation facility? 18:53:20 Fare: Yes, eventually. I saw in the IRC logs where you've made some requests for this over the past week. 18:53:39 except that I made many bug fixes yesterday night. 18:54:02 I kind of tested the whole shebang using SBCL on Unix with logical pathnames. 18:54:10 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:54:14 Fare: can you maybe give me recipe for what you need checked? 18:54:14 but that's all. 18:54:45 1- check that ASDF 2 compiles and runs at all, can import your existing projects. 18:55:15 Fare: I noted that you were banging your head about `:' in pathnames, default device, etc. 18:55:43 Fare: I'm not even sure this is clean w/ ASDF :( 18:55:52 2- check that ASDF 2 by default centralizes your fasls under %USERPROFILE%/Local Settings/Temporary Internet Files/common-lisp/ 18:56:29 Fare: I wondered about these types of things. 18:56:30 look at asdf.lisp 's new function directorize-pathname-host-device and weep! 18:56:39 Ogedei: Hmm, I have a patch ready, but I'm unsure of how to group things in the documentation. 18:56:52 Ogedei: Can I trouble you to look at the patch and suggest how to proceed? 18:57:36 Fare: For example, I don't have %USERPROFILE% where windows defaults. 18:58:01 you don't? 18:58:15 Fare: So, the rest of that path is gonna be touch and go. 18:58:18 what does (asdf-utilities:getenv "USERPROFILE") return? 18:58:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:38 hefner: how's the patch going? 18:58:49 what about (asdf::getenv "ALLUSERSPROFILE") ? 18:59:40 (SB-POSIX:getenv "USERPROFILE") => "C:\\home\\sp" 19:01:17 tcr: it's waiting patiently for me to bork the session I've been running for the last few hours. 19:02:01 bah you're not trying hard enough :-) 19:02:23 I'm not, I'm mostly screwing around on the web, and I think I just spend 45 minutes playing Sudoku on my phone. 19:03:02 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:21 At least it shows that ECL is stable when you leave it untouched for hours :-) 19:03:48 sure, it runs my app flawlessly, but its own compiler tends to crash it. 19:04:38 Fare: ALLUSERSPROFILE is as standard 19:05:03 tcr: and occasionally I've seen it crash hard on errors that should've popped the debugger. it also segfaults if I try to bash my way out of it with control-c and control-d, but as I'm quiting it anyway that seems irrelevant. 19:07:03 hi, I'm compiling a file which requires a package then loading the fasl. Is there any way to speed up the loading of that package and its dependencies when I load my fasl? 19:07:10 p_l: if you want to redesign something, common-lisp.net could use an overhaul, and i'd accept a new CSS for cliki as well 19:08:08 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:08:26 egn: http://www.weitz.de/packages.html 19:08:35 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:08:40 drewc: thanks 19:09:02 egn: doesn't answer your question, but might help you ask the correct one 19:09:14 drewc: alright, I'll take a look 19:10:35 drewc: redesign of CLiki was a big part of my ideas for ucliki 19:10:58 Ogedei: I sent the patch to the mailing list. 19:11:15 drewc: I plan to get on with the server side after easter break, because I planned to use it as a teaching opportunity for a classmate. 19:11:27 (i think) 19:11:38 minion: memo for stassats: M-. for asdf systems would be nice, too. I'm not sure if the existing M-. hook mechanism is suitable for it, though. 19:11:38 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 19:12:42 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 19:15:06 minion: memo for stassats: I've got another idea! a way to list all the functions in a system etc. that use symbols from a certain package. Clearly we need more Slime hackers to put up with all my ideas! :-) 19:15:06 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 19:15:11 nyef: this might interest you: http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=1608 19:15:23 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:25 mgst00 [~mgst00@c-24-91-179-192.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:00 p_l: sounds good to me :) 19:17:48 drewc: Right now I've got to scavenge cl-user.net for all software packages to generate a TODO for my packaging system :D 19:20:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:21:24 Fare: Yeah, we could do something like that, but it'd be a bit makeshift, really. 19:21:27 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-5eea0b73-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:45 Could also do the same for C++ unwind interop on linux, for that matter, but it'd still be a hack. 19:22:00 Xach: I didn't get any mail on the postmodern list. 19:22:40 varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:23:17 Ogedei: me neither 19:23:41 http://xach.com/tmp/postmodern-notify.patch has the patch 19:23:58 -!- varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:24:39 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-58-28-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:41 I'm not sure how to fit the new public function, new condition, and new condition accessors into the documentation. 19:26:12 unwind interop on Linux looks doable but error-prone 19:26:17 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:26:38 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:26:45 drewc: the latest news on c-l.net is from 2008. 19:26:59 drewc: maybe it's a good idea to remove the news section? :-) 19:28:24 2008 ist good, it could be worse. (could be 1988) 19:28:39 linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:28:54 moah: not if you intent to radiate activity and livelyness; it's Q2 2010 by now 19:29:09 i'm just kidding. ;) 19:29:33 linus5` [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 -!- linus5` [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:04 Fare: I wonder where the bug entry for recompile-for-intra-system-dependencies has gone? 19:30:05 -!- linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:09 the news could be replaced by planet lisp or something. 19:30:27 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 19:30:38 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:56 Fare: And let me thank you for all the energy you're putting into asdf 19:31:40 Jarvellis [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:31:45 -!- Jarvellis is now known as Elench 19:31:48 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.16.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:51 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 19:33:07 moah: that's not even a bad idea 19:33:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:43 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:15 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:41:36 Guthur [~Michael@host86-138-194-163.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 tcr: I just want this nightmare gone! 19:42:20 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 19:42:53 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.11.139] has joined #lisp 19:42:58 -!- mgst00 [~mgst00@c-24-91-179-192.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401064631]] 19:44:04 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:45:06 -!- anekos_ [~anekos@pl761.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:22 With SBCL implementation of the time function does System represent OS time, would it include foreign function access through CFFI. 19:45:31 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:45:33 SBCL's 19:45:51 I believe so. 19:46:27 nyef, just OS, or foreign funcs as well 19:47:14 that's a good question 19:47:20 M-. shows it's using getrusage 19:47:37 francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has joined #lisp 19:49:20 so it should just be OS; I'd be interested in how to get time spent in FFI-land, too 19:50:06 The FFI time is lumped in with the non-GC lisp time, surely? 19:50:19 I was thinking it might be just OS 19:50:25 Ah, so, right, OS time is just syscall time. 19:50:46 *nyef* didn't read the opening question properly. 19:50:57 I am tempted to do the last documentation bugs myself instead of waiting for poor rpg, just so I can declare it released 19:51:10 I'm even tempted to run Windows myself and test there... 19:51:25 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:51:31 that's how bad I want ASDF 2 behind me... 19:52:17 I'm going to run a couple of experiments here, there is another aspect of it that is bothering me 19:52:52 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:54:49 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:52 <_8david`> anyone have experience with cl-pdf and unicode? 19:56:08 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:56:18 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.11.139] has quit [] 19:56:33 <_8david`> I've switched to a ttf as explained in the unicode-readme.txt, which worked. 19:57:20 <_8david`> But now copy&paste from the PDF is broken in the sense that even ordinary ASCII characters appear as broken code point symbols. 19:58:05 <_8david`> The visible text looks good though. 19:58:22 attila and levente do, but they were more groaning .. 19:59:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:45 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:00:02 <_8david`> Ironically, as nice as the unicode display is, I don't even care about the visible stuff, because I'm putting a scanned image on top of the text afterwards. The text is _only_ for copy&paste and full text index extraction. 20:00:04 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:41 ehu: or add some news! :) 20:03:09 Is there a common-lisp.net spam filter or something that might block my message to postmodern-devel? 20:03:31 yes 20:04:00 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:08 Xach: it arrived 20:04:19 Xach: just took really really long 20:04:43 rpq: ping 20:04:45 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:20 ah 20:05:39 Xach: I event sent a reply. Now wait another ten minutes for that to arrive. 20:05:47 hah. ok 20:06:16 Xach: in short: looks good. put the docs near the bottom of cl-postgres.html. you can submit a rough description of the functionality if you want, then I can integrate it properly 20:07:03 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:08:30 rpg: no git for xmls? 20:08:33 -!- bzzbzz is now known as meta4 20:08:59 -!- _WOG_ [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 20:09:15 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 20:09:27 WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:50 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 _8david`, if you use a unicode font it should just work 20:11:55 the situation was much worse in the past 20:12:46 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:12:53 _8david`, copy&paste is probably killed by emitting characters differently into the pdf file 20:13:00 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:42 <_8david`> does copy&paste (or pdftotext) work for the PDFs you are generating then? 20:14:29 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:15:59 *_8david`* is tempted to use QPainter and QPrinter and just print to a PDF file using CommonQt 20:16:17 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:20 <_8david`> not certain whether to put a happy or a sad smiley next to that 20:17:00 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:17:11 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f667bba-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:00 *levente_meszaros* checks 20:21:24 Is it possible to have slime connect to an already running SBCL image 20:21:33 M-x slime-connect 20:21:36 no it does not work 20:21:53 hefner: cool, I'll try that out 20:22:15 <_8david`> okay, thanks for testing. At least then I'm not doing anything dumb. 20:22:20 neither copy&paste nor pdftotext 20:22:24 Guthur: Only if that sbcl image has started a swank server 20:22:33 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:22:39 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:23 tcr: ok, thanks for the heads up 20:24:10 make sure to set swank:*dont-close* to to in your .swank.lisp, and you can have multiple connections to the same image 20:25:27 hmm, there's no standard mechanism to make one slot dependent on the value of other, right? 20:25:33 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:34 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:40 *another 20:25:55 dependent in what way? 20:25:58 (beside INITIALIZE-INSTANCE) 20:26:12 tcr: make foo have the value of (1+ bar) for instance 20:26:18 where FOO and BAR are slots 20:27:28 do you want to customize initialization, or always define bar that way? 20:27:40 erm foo 20:27:51 the former 20:28:05 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-160-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:11 hmm, are you allowed to define INITIALIZE-INSTANCE on condition types? 20:28:15 *mathrick* hits the CLHS 20:28:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:30 nope 20:28:53 and :defaults-initarg won't cut it 20:29:04 you're allowed to, you just aren't guaranteed it will work :) 20:29:07 I'm regularly annoyed by that problem, too 20:29:28 "No implementation is permitted to extend the syntax of define-condition to allow (slot-name form) as an abbreviation for (slot-name :initform form)." 20:29:34 tcr: bah 20:30:02 this is stupid, and all the fault of no-longer-in-business vendors who were afraid OO would kill their embedded lisps :( 20:30:17 Are they permitted to extend it to add a gensym as the initarg and push form as the default for that initarg? >:-) 20:30:41 "The :initarg slot option declares an initialization argument named by its symbol argument and specifies that this initialization argument initializes the given slot. If the initialization argument has a value in the call to initialize-instance, the value is stored into the given slot, and the slot's :initform slot option, if any, is not evaluated. If none of the initialization arguments specified for a given slot has a value, the slot is initia 20:30:41 lized according to the :initform slot option, if specified." 20:30:59 this passage would suggest INITIALIZE-INSTANCE is expected to be called on condition types 20:31:06 also damn american spelling 20:32:00 "A condition is an object that represents a specific situation that has been detected. Conditions are generalized instances of the class condition" 20:32:09 oi! 20:32:14 that'd definitely point at INITIALIZE-INSTANCE being allowed 20:32:32 not really. 20:32:44 mathrick: Do you hack wine as well as lisp? 20:33:17 the bit about initialize-instance is interesting, though. 20:33:21 nyef: only very briefly, long time ago, to fix one bug. Why? 20:33:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:33:42 I see your other nick in #winehackers. 20:33:54 *nyef* hacked wine for a few months six years ago. 20:34:11 nyef: oh, yes, that's exactly why. And the autojoin list is not really synchronised between me and m4thrick 20:35:04 I have followed the latest releases pretty closely for some time, though, that's why I stayed in the channel 20:36:15 hefner: the pragmatic view is that the standard hints strongly enough at it, and all sensible implementations make them classes anyway, so everyone else be damned :) 20:36:20 *Fare* enters DLL-hell trying to compile gwking's regenerate-website thingie. 20:36:40 don't 20:36:43 just replace the website 20:37:58 tcr: tee hee, did gwking break your toys by one of his OCD refactorings? 20:38:14 -!- Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:29 OCD ? 20:38:31 no, I just never wanted to put up with the dependency hell 20:38:49 to my excuse, I tried 20:39:49 ok, so... plain HTML ? 20:40:05 I could use Exscribe, but that would be trading one hell for another, wouldn't it? 20:40:07 Xach: Actually, giving it a few more minutes of thought -- wouldn't a callback mechanism make much more sense than conditions (for handling notifications)? 20:40:09 flash :-) 20:40:23 phromo [phromo@c-04cbe455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:32 tcr: how could I not think of it? 20:41:33 latex 20:41:43 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:42:04 I did my share of latex2html and hevea 20:42:05 is there a latex package which produce flash files? 20:42:27 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:52 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.16.101] has joined #lisp 20:43:11 *Fare* goes for raw HTML for now... 20:43:14 Controller [~server@unaffiliated/appetite/bot/controller] has joined #lisp 20:43:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:44:39 Fare: hell, but a hell of your own creation, yes? I'd think anyone writing more than a few pages of HTML with nontrivial markup would start screaming for something simpler/better/easier 20:45:06 Fare: obsessive-compulsive disorder 20:45:27 Can't you make the manual be the website, too? 20:45:44 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:49 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.16.101] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:59 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:47:19 anekos_ [~anekos@pl289.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:47:28 -!- phromo [phromo@c-04cbe455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 20:47:51 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:27 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.209] has joined #lisp 20:48:45 -!- meta4 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:03 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:49:30 -!- bzzbzz is now known as Guest69201 20:50:47 -!- Guest69201 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:50 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:52:06 If anyone is interested I can verify that the tutorial code from Rucksack appears to be portable from different SBCL builds and across OS'. 20:52:53 Speaking of across OS, can I build a 64bit version of SBCL on Windows 7? 20:53:23 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:25 Just finished loading in the store from a linux running SBCL 1.0.35.17 -> w32 w/ SBCL 1.0.37 -> linux running SBCL 1.0.35.17 so a minor roundtripping victory :) 20:53:55 argh, dammit 20:54:09 SBCL doesn't seem to be calling INITIALIZE-INSTANCE for conditions 20:54:09 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:54:54 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-91-178.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:55:50 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.180] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 20:56:37 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:57:00 Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0553.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:57:20 mon_key` [~user@74-143-13-202.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:10 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:00 Axioplas1_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 20:59:05 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:59:26 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:24 hmm, why's (&key foo &rest args) disallowed? 21:00:37 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:00:37 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:44 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:44 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:45 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:00:45 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:48 oh, I see 21:01:30 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:29 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178217131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:02:57 So far, it also appears that Rucksack tutorial repo can be ``hotswapped'' too :) 21:03:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:03:15 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:04:28 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:52 prxq [~mommer@g226203012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:12 hi 21:06:27 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:06:27 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 21:06:27 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:06:48 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:07:25 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:07:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7552d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:48 -!- davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:12 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-164-59.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:13:17 hefner, as long as index.html remains small, I'll use html. If it grows, I'll use exscribe. 21:13:35 (but then, I'll push for exscribe and dependencies to be included in clbuild) 21:13:57 makes sense; I imagined something more like a manual. 21:22:34 -!- mathrick is now known as I 21:22:44 -!- I is now known as mathrick 21:22:50 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@user-0c2h0f1.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:54 -!- palter [palter@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:22:55 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:23:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:38 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:11 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-176.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:16 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:36:56 maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:38:22 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 21:41:55 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:11 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:45:42 mathrick pasted "Will you hate me forever if I do that?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97524 21:46:00 is that something that will get me into a special layer of hell, or is that acceptable code? 21:47:51 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:48:09 mathrick: why not just tail recurse? 21:48:27 tail recursion 21:48:28 why'd I want to do that if I have ITERATE? 21:48:40 because the tail recursive version is shorter? :-P 21:48:41 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:42 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 21:49:23 (defun blah (plists) (when plists (or (getf (car plists) :foo) (blah (cdr plists))))) 21:49:57 Phoodus: that WHEN there is ugly and makes it not really shorter, IMHO 21:50:01 that is not logically shorter 21:50:07 it might have fewer characters 21:50:35 those are the semantics which match lisp's common conventions of list processing 21:50:50 iter + return smells more of importing styles from other languages 21:51:03 instead of flowing with what lisp has to offer 21:51:08 I dislike tail recursion for iteration 21:51:10 the basics of what it offers 21:51:12 that is scheme, not CL 21:51:14 mathrick: how about doing that with find? 21:51:16 it's cleaner, faster, etc 21:51:26 Phoodus: it's neither 21:51:40 meta4 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:51:41 Phoodus: and in cl like in many other languages, it swamps your stack 21:51:51 prxq: how exactly would I do it with find? 21:52:41 -!- meta4 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:53:51 Phoodus: generally, if somebody claims that tail recursion is somehow "cleaner" by the virtue of being tail recursion, even when what you use it for is clearly iteration, I'm inclined to show them the way to #scheme 21:54:12 iterating with tail recursion is functional GOTO 21:54:21 s/is/& just/ 21:54:48 except that unlike GOTO, you've got a fresh scope 21:55:00 so? 21:55:07 froydnj: btw, re CPS is SSA, we unfortunately don't model the part of CPS (an explicit argument list for each continuation) that makes it equivalent to SSA. 21:55:07 when would you use tail recursion for anything but iteration ? :) 21:55:08 it's bad style in CL 21:55:10 so that's the main problem of goto 21:55:12 Phoodus: read "The Anatomy of a Loop" 21:55:25 hopping around withn the same scope 21:55:49 the problem of GOTO is that it's a sucky mechanism that doesn't say clearly what you mean 21:56:00 tail recursion also allows for more flexible processing if you need to retain state across your iteration, or change what you're doing mid-stream 21:56:15 anyway, why the hell am I arguing about tail recursion? I have more productive things to do 21:56:42 Phoodus: read that paper, or GOTO #scheme 21:56:46 well, you asked if your iter/return method would be acceptable 21:57:04 there is always (loop) ... 21:57:12 answers based on scheme aesthetics weren't what I really wanted in #lisp 21:57:19 mle-lucca: no thanks, I have ITER :) 21:57:22 I've never used scheme, so whatever 21:57:46 mle-lucca: it's just like LOOP, except not horrible 21:58:13 Phoodus: I don't think the CL standard guaranties any tail recursive optimization semantics, though likely most implementations can 21:58:21 correct 21:58:33 mathrick: heh. I like loop! But I should look at iter some time. 21:58:43 doesn't matter, if your list isn't too long. 21:58:56 *hefner* isn't actually sure how long is too long. 21:59:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:59:26 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:59:28 -!- bzzbzz is now known as Guest27317 21:59:59 mle-lucca: it very much doesn't guarantee them 22:00:09 s/them/it/ 22:00:11 Phoodus: now where it gets interesting is mixing tail/non-tail recursion and strict/non-strict evaluation, and trying to prove bounded memory usage. 22:00:17 mathrick: ITER is just LOOP with parentheses. It doesn't add very much at all :\ 22:00:23 sykopomp: yes it does 22:00:32 -!- Guest27317 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:00:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:01:04 mathrick: it has marginally better hash table iteration, and more parentheses. :| 22:01:06 it's properly extensible, it has syntax that doesn't suck, it adds proper semantics to parallel stepping (by forbidding it :) and generalised iterators, explains clearly code movement 22:01:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:01:10 mathrick: I'd express that as (find-if #'(lambda (plist) (getf plist foo)) plists) 22:01:30 tcr: ah, that's an interesting approach 22:01:32 parallel stepping is useful! 22:01:39 ITER is to LOOP as SVN is to CVS... better, sure, but better enough to bother? meh. 22:01:49 mathrick: what do you mean about parallel stepping? 22:01:51 mle-lucca: read the ITER documentation, it explains why you're wrong! 22:02:00 mathrick: and it's yet another large, bloated iteration DSL 22:02:03 heh, okay 22:02:30 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Parallel-Binding-and-Stepping.html#Parallel-Binding-and-Stepping 22:02:35 it's very short 22:02:40 sykopomp: if some complex tool meshes with a complex need, then that's a good thing 22:03:05 sykopomp: disagree here, and the parens are an advantage 22:03:08 Phoodus: I don't know. After playing with some languages with more advanced sequences library, I'm not sure LOOP/ITER have a place in the future. 22:03:14 if I minded parens for syntax, I wouldn't be writing lisp 22:03:33 I think the fact that LOOP/ITER need to exist has a lot to do with CL's sequences library being lacking. 22:03:39 sykopomp: like what languages for example? 22:03:41 at least that's my suspicion right now. 22:03:46 prxq annotated #97524 "clean & sublime" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97524#1 22:03:54 sykopomp: ITER is extensible and comes with a bunch of goodies that LOOP lacks plus it lets you e.g. happily standard CL IF/WHEN unlike LOOP. 22:03:54 mathrick: specifically, I was playing with Factor. I'm led to believe the case is the same with Haskell. 22:04:00 mathrick: fair enough 22:04:09 (granted, I've never bothered with loop/iter besides the one or 2 cases where I had my nose in the docs to solve something, and promptly forgot about its specifics) 22:04:14 sykopomp: I don't buy that at all, but maybe because I haven't used anything better. If you're claiming Factor is better, you are a raving lunatic. 22:04:22 prxq: append -> bad. apply on an arbitrary list? Worse. 22:04:41 pkhuong: oh come on 22:04:46 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:04:57 hefner: I'm expressing that I think Factor's sequences library is better than CL's. I make no claims about the language as a whole. 22:05:04 the extensibility looks nice, at least 22:05:14 ITER also defines how it interacts with macros, which pkhuong says is being half too clever :) 22:05:19 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:21 well, cl's sequence library is indeed somewhat lacking 22:05:27 it's extensible and it comes with a rich set of useful words that you can use to compose a lot of what LOOP is there to do. 22:05:31 sykopomp: IIRC it's almost identical, except extensible, and the one really cute thing (integers as sequences) was recently removed. 22:05:38 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.249.222] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 22:05:53 sykopomp: I have no idea how sequences in factor work, any links to a readable example / intro? 22:06:08 sykopomp: and the extensibility is (subtly) badly documented. Lovely. 22:06:09 mathrick: just the general factor docs, I don't know them that well. 22:06:22 sykopomp: you know more than I do at least :) 22:06:40 pkhuong: in factor or in ITER? 22:06:41 pkhuong: I never tried extending it. That's unfortunate. 22:07:08 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 22:07:11 mathrick: in ITER. 22:07:14 I like LOOP's non-parenthesis syntax, it visually stands out 22:07:24 hmmm. Really you can extend (loop) using symbol-macros though 22:07:25 pkhuong: how exactly is it wrong? 22:07:30 my impression of factor comes from spending a while trying to figure out how what I thought was a pretty straightforward loop could be rewritten into factor (I was porting some code) 22:07:46 and I ask for help in the irc channel, and someone answers with just 3 words :\ 22:07:54 my loop version was about 4 lines long :| 22:08:35 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:36 sykopomp: I find that ITER works the way I expect it to as well, and it does what I meant when confronted with macrology as well 22:08:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08:49 but I don't have enough experience with factor to form a more advanced opinion than that. 22:08:55 mathrick: LOOP wfm 22:09:04 mle-lucca: I don't think that is true. LOOP parses its body using STRING= to compare the tokens, without trying to expand them 22:09:10 there was a thread of sbcl-help regarding an error when COMPILE-FILEing with some matrix library. 22:09:20 old-fangled ASDF website! http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 22:09:23 mathrick: I tend to view complex loops, whether in LOOP or ITERATE with great suspicion, anyway. 22:09:25 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:09:31 sykopomp: it doesn't for me. Just the idiotic DO thing is enough to make me look for something else. So are the non-standard IF and WHILE syntaxes 22:09:45 sykopomp: ignoring the (often large) ratio of verbosity in CL versus Factor, that sounds not unlike complaining that using LOOP took several lines when using FIND or REDUCE or something could be done in one 22:09:48 tcr: the reader should... 22:09:51 Fare: looks good. 22:10:02 Fare: your name is displayed incorrectly here 22:10:07 hefner: this was dealing with alists. 22:10:16 mle-lucca: ? 22:10:26 sykopomp: most loops I do aren't complex, they might have many variables at best. But that's why exactly ITER is good, because it lets me hide the internal complexity and settle with just a long(ish) list of declarations 22:10:37 fixed 22:10:37 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:46 You can define expanders with some arguments that are either functions, symbols or lambda forms. 22:10:48 fare: ack 22:10:52 tcr: I'd have to think about how that meshes with eval-when stuff though, yeah. It's a mess. 22:10:58 sykopomp: I just don't remember any magic in Factor that would substitute for a big hairy loop with lots of variables flying around (except that Factor generally makes it almost impossible to write anything that complex, or to do so efficiently) 22:11:31 hefner: let me be more concrete. The example isn't that impressive, but it struck me at the time. 22:11:50 pkhuong: that's a continuation of the ITER misdocumented extensibility, correct? 22:11:51 You usually want either of the latter options, since COMPILE-FILE with literal function values isn't going to end well. Yet, all the examples skip quoting and pass evaluated functions. 22:12:06 mathrick: yeah. Failed to find the thread. 22:12:49 (loop for result in keys-and-values 22:12:50 collect (caar result) into keys 22:12:50 collect (cadr result) into values 22:12:50 finally (do-something-with keys values) 22:13:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:13:10 hefner: and the factor version of that: [ unzip swap keys ] 22:13:14 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 22:13:14 sykopomp: destructuring? 22:13:23 there comes ASDF 1.671 ! 22:13:24 pkhuong: ah, I see what you mean now. Essentially docs concentrate on the case that's easy to do in example code, and not what's actually useful in real code? 22:13:40 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:13:42 pkhuong: would that really improve it that much, though? 22:13:50 OK, no more open bugs for ASDF 2. 22:13:57 compared to having more built-in functions to handle things like alists. 22:14:01 sykopomp: Do you really have a list that looks like (((key . value)) (key . value)) ...) ? 22:14:02 Please test a lot, report bugs, add regression tests... Sigh. 22:14:11 nyef: yes. 22:14:27 I meant (((key . value)) ((key . value)) ...) ? 22:14:31 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.56.228] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 nyef: that's one of the messages CouchDB sends to view servers. 22:14:39 Ugh. Insane. 22:14:47 Fare: will normal .asd files work out of the box? i.e. is the thing backwards compatible at this point? 22:14:56 sykopomp: (loop for ((key . value)) in keys-and-values collect key into keys collect value into values finally (return (values keys values))) ? 22:15:16 pkhuong: unzip swap keys 22:15:17 :\ 22:15:19 Fare: up to bugs, obviously 22:15:30 That's pretty clear and straightforward, and I don't see how unzip can do the job. 22:15:44 You have lists of lists of pairs. Unzip won't do anything there. 22:15:45 (multiple-value-call #'foo (unzip alist)) 22:15:50 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:15:57 nyef: http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/View_server isearch "reduce" 22:16:22 *Fare* declares ASDF 2 feature-complete. 22:16:27 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:30 Now for much more testing! 22:16:50 (multiple-value-call #'do-something-foo (unzip assoc)) 22:16:59 copy-cat 22:17:02 sykopomp: where does it do something with the result? 22:17:03 hefner: where's unzip? 22:17:15 your CL code does a lot more than your factor code 22:17:22 minion: asdf2 22:17:22 sykopomp: it's a programmable programming language 22:17:22 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``asdf2''. 22:17:23 sykopomp: who cares? you want to bicker about some tiny function in the standard library? 22:17:26 :-) 22:17:27 sykopomp: alexandria. 22:17:37 francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 pkhuong: oh, I didn't know it was in alexandria :) 22:17:49 (some day, if it's actually useful) 22:18:01 :t unzip 22:18:02 Fare: add link to minion? :) 22:18:06 I still don't see how that code can work. 22:18:11 hefner: I'm not bickering about it. I'm just suggesting that maybe having a richer sequence/collection library would be nice and significantly reduce the usefulness of LOOP itself. 22:18:22 sure 22:18:45 sykopomp: the problem is that they don't work very well when you need parallel iteration. 22:18:47 I was not suggesting this is not doable in CL. This was about the need for LOOP and ITER. 22:19:07 pkhuong: you mean for foo in x for bar in y? 22:19:12 what are you trying to return? 22:19:12 sykopomp: for instance. 22:19:15 hi guys, anyone knows how to make and run so-called cgi scripts in cl? 22:19:19 oho, that's cute. It seems I managed to get SBCL into a situation where you can't recompile a class definition, even though I don't do anything nonsensical 22:19:54 francogrex: http://www.cliki.net/cgi-lisp , except my domain is down 22:19:59 udzinari, link to what? 22:20:00 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:03 minion: asdf? 22:20:04 asdf: asdf is Another System Definition Facility. http://www.cliki.net/asdf 22:20:21 asdf2 is just asdf, with plenty of cleanups. 22:20:23 francogrex: Let me guess you want to use cgi for this homepage thing? 22:20:42 francogrex: though you can just set up a CGI handler, which is no different from any other CGI handler 22:20:49 (Seriously, isn't cgi dead?) 22:21:05 I think I'm regressing, lately I've a curious temptation just to use goto (GO, whatever) and some variables instead of wasting cycles thinking how to fit things into the framework provided by an iteration macro. 22:21:09 tcr good guess, my obsession now 22:21:18 mathrick thanks will check it out 22:21:32 hefner: I wrote a 100-or-so-line PROG last night. 22:21:34 francogrex: drop me a line if you need the code, the links are sadly broken 22:21:36 Fare: okies, my confusion 22:21:47 prxq: yes, asdf2 should be fully backwards compatible with asdf. If it's not, it's a bug -- please report. 22:21:57 hefner: can't say I look back on the experience with warm fuzzies. 22:21:58 mathrick: ok, will need to do quite a bit of reading/learning first 22:22:01 Backwards compatible  If it's not backwards it's not compatible 22:22:03 prxq: and it should be hot-upgradable from your version 22:22:16 the manual should be reasonably up to date. 22:22:27 Where the manual is unclear -- it's a bug, please report. 22:22:48 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 22:22:56 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 Fare: actually I noted that the manual had grown considerably since the last time I looked. Rather considerably indeed. 22:23:34 tcr: the one bundled with sbcl? 22:23:48 yes 22:24:04 prxq, it may still be missing a lot, but hopefully it's a good start. 22:24:07 tcr: ...how? 22:24:17 It probably needs a new pass... if you're willing to write it... 22:24:19 just git clone, add a link to asdf.asd, and put (asdf:load-system :asdf) into your .sbclrc 22:24:45 oh ok 22:24:56 it results in lots of redefinition style-warnings, and some slower start up, fwiw 22:25:09 sbcl compilation has degraded quite a bit over the last half(?) year 22:25:09 sbcl --eval '(compile-file "asdf.lisp" :output-file (format nil "~Aasdf/asdf.fasl" (sb-int:sbcl-homedir-pathname)))' --eval '(quit)' 22:25:11 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:25:14 Fare: if I find something, I will comment. It looks rather good, though 22:25:31 tcr: speedwise, or something else? 22:25:38 compilation speed 22:25:51 Fare: I still think that swank.asd should muffle the redefinition stuff on sbcl 22:26:01 erm asdf.asd :-) 22:26:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:22 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:28:59 has anyone else noted that the self conmiseration threads in c.l.l. ("boohoo lisp is dead") are down a great deal from about five years ago? 22:29:17 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.144.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:34 prxq: that's because CL is quite a bit livelier 22:29:58 yay 22:30:19 that, or they've all moved to clojure or arc and appropriated c.l.l... 22:30:21 :\ 22:30:36 is it? it was pretty lively five years ago. 22:30:39 tcr: you should make a benchmark and compare against that benchmark somebody did comparing early 1.0.x against 0.8 releases 22:31:17 hefner: I think the general interest in and awareness of Lisp are up 22:31:39 hefner: five years ago there was a lot of soulsearching, and some rather epic flamewars. 22:32:21 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:30 no idea why, but it seems to me that trolls get more of the cold shoulder treatment nowadays 22:33:17 "cold shoulder" ? 22:33:43 prxq: sorry, I meant lively in terms of people using it (and #lisp activity), not c.l.l. antics I stopped following the newsgroup in 2002 or 2003, whenever google groups screwed up their interface. 22:34:22 fe[nl]ix: a saying implying that they are ignored 22:34:30 "A display of coldness or indifference, intended to wound." 22:35:14 hefner: you are right, it was lively five years ago already 22:37:37 tcr: how would you muffle that? 22:37:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226203012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:38:00 cl-launch muffles it in a heavy-handed way. 22:40:23 tcr: what redefinition stuff ? 22:42:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:32 fe[nl]ix, I suppose he means the bunch of warnings that SBCL issues when you load ASDF on top of an existing ASDF. 22:47:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:53 ephcon [~ephcon@student166-223.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 22:51:55 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:52:10 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:53:21 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student166-223.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:32 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:45 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:12 what's a good term to refer to a bit of code with a hole where you plug in a continuation (sort of a building block, pieces you'd plug together to form a sequence of operations with progressively nested scopes) 23:01:26 a context ? 23:01:28 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:01:52 a continuation continuation? 23:03:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:24 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:38 context would be appropriate if it included the entire enclosing scope, but I'm imagining the pieces can have free variables. 23:04:27 hefner: "step"? 23:04:31 or operation? 23:04:40 (or just "op") 23:05:11 I suppose I shouldn't call it a continuation, either. 23:05:26 *hefner* shrugs 23:05:33 I'm not exactly sure how the scopes get nested, though 23:05:47 this is building up a macro body? 23:05:57 or I guess a lambda body to be eval'd or something? 23:07:21 hefner: what do you mean, plug a continuation? That's a regular expression... 23:07:46 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:19 *regular as in normal (: 23:13:13 hefner: fragment? 23:13:21 template? 23:13:31 expression 23:13:37 pkhuong: To put it in concrete terms, a form with a marker designating where you can splice in another form (in a position to be evaluated, naturally). Maybe with stronger constraints on how/when the subform is evaluated; I haven't thought about it. 23:13:57 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 23:13:58 parsers generally call that an expression or term 23:14:11 I'd think that would apply here too 23:15:28 hefner: a substitution, maybe? 23:15:52 or a word you used yourself, "subform" :) 23:16:20 oh, are you talking about that which can contain a subform, or that which is plugged into such a slot? 23:16:38 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:16:50 hefner: I could see context/environment. 23:16:58 "formlet"? =p anyway, it's silly, I'm just grasping for a term to describe the bits which something like a looping macro can be said to be assembling together (where every clause produces several of these, emitted into different sections of the loop) 23:17:18 skeleton? 23:18:35 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:55 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:57 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.56.228] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 23:26:06 greetings 23:27:23 perhaps I'll read the source to various iteration macros, see if any of them formalize things this way (and if so, what they call it). MIT LOOP certainly doesn't, it just shovels s-exps around. 23:28:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:03 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:30:39 -!- Axioplas1_ is now known as Axioplase_ 23:31:03 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:31:08 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 23:31:15 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 23:31:21 hefner: foof-loop or shiver's loop macro? 23:32:07 I've been meaning to watch the shivers loop presentation again 23:32:47 the paper has a link to an implementation, iirc. 23:35:00 md` [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 23:35:30 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:36:20 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-164-59.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:30 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:03 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:25 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:01 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:27 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:58 sav [~sav@189001131114.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:49:10 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:53 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 23:50:22 Anyone here bought an iPad, hoping to code for it using CL? Apple says no. 23:50:32 Kind of sucks. 23:50:59 they say no? explicitly? 23:51:22 -!- wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:25 Apparently so. 23:51:31 "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript " 23:51:46 "Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited" 23:52:39 so I compile my CL app to C via ECL, link that into a nice cozy mess with some ObjC glue for the UI, and they'll tell me to go f*** myself? 23:52:40 hah! 23:52:48 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:52:55 Balooga: I'd like to see that enforced. 23:53:08 bendover and take the designed-in-california juice 23:53:24 pkhuong: Given that you need to go through the app store? Easily enough enforced. 23:53:26 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.200.73] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:53:44 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:46 what I'm wondering if this is actually a different policy than on the iPhone, which (I thought) had permitted an app or two written using Gamit-C 23:53:56 pkhuong: They went overboard trying to block the Adobe Flash converter. 23:54:34 nyef: I don't doubt that they have the tool to block an app; it's the part where they're trying to make a random intern guess how an app was written in 10 minutes that I don't see happening. 23:54:49 wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 23:54:53 hefner: That's from the new iPhone OS4.0 SDK. I assume it will apply to the iPad when it gets OS 4.0 as well. 23:55:50 http://jlongster.com/blog/2009/06/17/write-apps-iphone-scheme/ 23:58:38 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp