00:04:34 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 00:06:16 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:35 hmm... after the rebuild everything seems ok. 00:06:46 sliq [~sliq@0048-8-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:31 -!- suleiman [~silas@94-193-31-19.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Roadkill necrophilia time] 00:08:17 pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 00:08:33 a friend of mine wants to learn programming 00:08:48 anyone know of a good SOAP library that's worth cloning for CL? 00:08:52 and lisp is an excellent language, since there's nothing special to remember 00:09:00 (except ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) and ' 00:09:13 fusss: trivial-http? 00:09:22 we use NuSoap for PHP at work and it's fine, but is SOAP::Lite also worth looking at? 00:09:27 so is there any good online recources that teaches lisp to people who has never programmed at ALL 00:09:44 minion: gentle? 00:09:44 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 00:09:45 nyef: no! 00:10:09 fusss: No what? 00:10:21 no half-baked toy solutions 00:10:58 Why not? 00:11:05 i don't care for wsdl parsing (can always rip it out of cl-soap) but stuff like call logging is important 00:11:18 So... log your calls? 00:11:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11:45 I'm failing to see the problem here. 00:11:52 nyef: i don' think you have used a soap library lately (and by lately i mean after 2002) 00:12:02 noone here can recomend me a good recource for learning how to code, using lisp? 00:12:06 seriously? 00:12:15 pastorn: nyef's gentle suggestion was for you. 00:12:53 My not-so-gentle suggestion is a copy of SICP and to go bother the people in #scheme instead. 00:13:05 haha 00:13:10 minion: HtDP 00:13:10 HtDP: How To Design Programs, an online textbook in introductory CS using PLT Scheme, available at http://www.htdp.org/ 00:13:23 no, i lied. it's back again. 00:13:33 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 00:13:40 a cross compiled build can build itself, but the next build can't. 00:14:00 argh... 00:14:42 any resources that arent't 500+ pages? 00:14:48 i don't want to scare him :( 00:14:51 You want -more-? 00:14:55 think: Chunky bacon 00:15:39 There are 500+ page books about -single aspects- of programming. 00:15:58 nyef: yeah... gogo "Design Patterns" 00:16:01 *pastorn* dies inside 00:16:31 Sod design patterns, Aho and Ullman clocks in at 604 pages. 00:16:49 nyef: is that SICP? 00:16:58 No, it's the dragon book on compilers. 00:17:18 oh, that one 00:17:23 pastorn: practical common lisp chapters are rather short and to the point. but there's 'learning to program', and 'learning to program lisp'. different mindsets 00:17:26 Heh. I never noticed before, the back cover has -windmills- as the opponents. 00:17:30 well, that one covers almost ALL languages :) 00:17:39 nyef: which Aho and Ullman? ;-) 00:17:54 is "the little schemer" good for beginners? 00:17:58 their data structures book was thin 00:18:11 i've looked a little at the chapters online, and it seems pretty awesome 00:18:27 fusss: Alfred V. Aho and Jeffery D. Ullman, "Principles of Compiler Design", 1977. 00:19:06 http://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/focs.html 00:19:38 A. V. Aho and J. D. Ullman, The Theory of Parsing, Translation, and Compiling, Vol. 1, Parsing. 00:19:52 ... A turtle on the back of four elephants? That sounds vaguely familiar... 00:19:53 see Aho's wiki page; they co-authored volumes 00:21:01 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:11 nyef: "Engineering A Compiler" is 800 pages.. pretty sure there are bigger books 00:23:39 adeht: ... You must have a different "Engineering A Compiler" than I have. 00:24:13 http://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Compiler-Keith-Cooper/dp/155860698X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269908641&sr=8-1 00:24:29 adeht: Not Anklam, Cutler, Heinen and MacLaren, 269 pages? 00:24:34 nope 00:24:57 ("Engineering a Compiler, VAX-11 Code Generation and Optimization") 00:25:07 From 1982. 00:27:40 the kooper and torczon book was excellent, imo 00:27:50 even with the funky IR 00:28:28 yeah 00:28:46 SSA-basd IR, that's just cheating .. 00:29:12 What's cheating about it? 00:29:35 Especially compared with, say, a CPS-based IR? 00:29:48 I think one of my first Lisp programs was some value-numbering hack 00:29:49 it's a luxury most people don't have; neither SSA nor CPS 00:29:50 fusss, why cheating? 00:30:00 *_3b`* liked the LET* IR one paper used :p 00:30:04 what's wrong with SSA or CPS? 00:30:07 "Don't have" in what sense? 00:30:14 _3b`: LET*-based? 00:30:36 <_3b`> nyef: yeah, it was a shorthand for cps or ssa, don't remember which 00:30:41 when i dabbled in this we had to target an existing backend; GCC. 00:31:16 (I read about (local?) value-numbering on EAC, and implemented it) 00:31:16 fusss, well these days, there are plenty of SSA backends. .NET, LLVM, etc. 00:31:31 if you go the CPS or SSA route, your foresake industrial tools and will have to write everything yourself 00:31:47 fusss, uh??? What are you talking about? 00:32:18 what tools do you think anyone's forsaking by using SSA or CPS? 00:33:19 Fare: ten years ago. you really had to go GNU or go home doing embedded compilers. GCC backend integrated well with ld, gas, libc, and binutils. not to mention a host of GCC based debugging and profiling tools. 00:34:15 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:38 SSA and ints infinite registers doesn't play well with impoverished architectures either 00:34:50 fusss, you could still use SSA internally and dump C or Assembly in the end. 00:35:10 I'm pretty sure Stalin had SSA amongst many optimizations, and it dumps C code. 00:35:31 and gas doesn't care if you use SSA internally. 00:39:55 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:22 jwillia3 [~chatzilla@71.23.157.238] has joined #lisp 00:44:52 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-45-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:58 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:21 -!- jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:24 jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 00:46:22 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-254.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:16 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:49:00 and doesn't GCC use SSA? 00:50:05 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:14 gcc4 does 00:50:16 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:51:39 *p_l* wonders how does it look like from transform side when you pass CPS code into SSA-based compiler 00:53:02 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 00:54:23 (whis is kinda what happens in Chicken Scheme) 00:54:33 *which 00:57:31 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:57:44 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:46 -!- pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has left #lisp 01:02:48 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:58 <_3b`> looks like the let* thing i was thinking of might have been from 'realistic compilation by program transformation'/'compilation by program transformation' by r kelsey 01:08:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:22 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:11:10 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:14:11 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:15:37 -!- jwillia3 [~chatzilla@71.23.157.238] has left #lisp 01:16:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:17:22 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:17:38 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 01:18:02 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:54 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:20:00 -!- sliq [~sliq@0048-8-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: sliq] 01:21:10 I think I'm going crazy... It's not the cross-build that fails, nor the self-build with the new build, but the next self-build after that that fails... 01:21:44 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:20 Compare the features, genesis headers, and... cold-core map and sbcl.nm between a successful and failing build? 01:24:05 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.73.119.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: (mapcar my dreams) .•«UPP»•.] 01:27:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:29:36 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:46 So, I have a function with a parameter which may be one of some number of named constants. How do I tell slime to use this list when symbol-completing the argument? 01:31:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:14 nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has joined #lisp 01:34:49 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:36:32 nyef: only c-p-c has context sensitive completion, but i don't know how it's working right away 01:36:43 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:37:09 i've been meaning for a long time to add context sensitivity to fuzzy completions 01:37:09 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:15 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 01:37:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:39 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:08 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:45:07 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:45 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:42 nyef: the cold map differs after SB!INT:BLOCK-GENSYM 02:00:47 And the runtime? 02:01:12 you mean sbcl.nm? identical 02:01:19 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: saikat] 02:01:31 -!- psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:01:34 Curious. 02:01:37 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:44 indeed 02:01:47 Is the cold map sorted by address? 02:01:54 yes 02:02:06 and the addresses are different 02:02:08 Seems an odd place for the map to change. 02:02:50 oh wait, not sure i understand the map 02:03:24 the second numbers are the same (where it points?) but the first are different 02:03:26 0x10000ADE28: SB!INT:MAKE-GENSYM-LIST #X10000ADE11 02:03:34 0x10000ADDF8: SB!INT:MAKE-GENSYM-LIST #X10000ADDE1 02:03:41 yet they're the same before that 02:03:47 the other lines, that is 02:04:08 What's the preceeding function? 02:05:02 BLOCK-GENSYM 02:05:27 Seems an odd thing to see a difference in... 02:05:29 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-156-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:15 yeah. trying some older versions to see if i can figure out when the problem arose 02:06:27 but dinner calls... 02:07:08 Also consider enabling :trace-file for the file containing the definition and seeing how that changes from build to build. 02:08:50 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:36 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:26 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:12:22 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:12:51 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:14:36 -!- tmdhat [~savio@jagat.xored.org] has quit [Quit: .] 02:18:08 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 02:19:13 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:19:54 ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:22:06 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:48 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:26:14 -!- dym_ [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:29:01 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:29:11 is there an easy way to do that? 02:29:17 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:36:25 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 02:36:28 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 02:39:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:40:23 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:40:35 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:43 pragma_ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:49 It's a per-file flag for build-order.lisp-expr similar to :not-host. 02:46:11 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest818 02:46:24 If you built with an after-xc core, you -might- be able to slam to get the trace, but I'm not sure it'd be as useful that way. 02:46:34 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:46:55 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-156-239-195.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 02:47:18 ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:51:53 vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 02:52:08 Good morning! 02:52:43 Another 68 minutes before morning here, but hello. 02:53:01 hello nyef 02:54:28 maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 02:54:38 -!- maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has quit [Client Quit] 02:55:24 maus [~maus@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 02:55:26 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 02:55:33 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-254.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:55:37 Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.237] has joined #lisp 02:55:44 -!- maus [~maus@113.161.70.110] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:30 maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 02:56:42 Good morning! :) 02:57:17 Good morning! 02:57:32 hello beach 02:57:45 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:58:17 Hi beach! :) 02:58:58 morning all (it's still night here :P 02:58:59 ) 03:00:09 p_l: what is your time now? Mine, in Vietnam, is 10:00AM. 03:01:05 0500, CET(DST) 03:01:25 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:54 2301, EDT. 03:02:56 p_l: that's morning by my standards 03:03:09 Definitely! 03:03:41 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:04:02 stassats: it's dark outside 03:04:50 I go to the canteen with my class now, see you in minutes! 03:04:55 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:51 p_l: never been close to a polar circle? 03:06:02 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:28 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 03:08:52 stassats: not really 03:09:30 ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 03:12:42 hmmm... does JS have something called ensureClass()? Or is it just broken paren-psos? 03:13:43 hmm.. apparently it's a case of badly-redefined functions 03:16:26 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17:12 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 03:27:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:29:36 I guess I have to scrap paren-psos for now 03:29:55 but the parenscript support for ASDF might still work 03:30:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:30:46 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 03:31:11 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:23 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:23 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:35:43 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 03:37:26 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:37:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:20 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:52 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:46:49 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:47:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:49:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:23 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 03:53:46 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:54:49 benny [~benny@i577A85E0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:03:59 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:09:31 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:14 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:08 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:19:53 what is david lichtbleau's IRC handle? 04:20:15 ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 04:20:46 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 04:21:11 It has varied over time, but might presently be _8david. 04:21:28 thanks :-) 04:22:20 also lichtblau 04:22:42 Yes, but considering which one is actually in-channel right now...? 04:23:00 Anyway, sleep calls. 04:23:02 G'night all. 04:23:17 that's expirable information 04:24:11 night nyef 04:26:06 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:34 mega1 [~quassel@53d83a34.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 04:26:46 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 04:28:26 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 04:29:17 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:29:29 OT question: mini ITX or micro ATX? 04:36:51 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:39:14 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:48:26 Adlai [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 -!- Adlai is now known as adlai 04:49:37 -!- adlai is now known as leifw 04:50:28 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:39 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:55:40 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:51 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 05:00:45 i wonder if 1.0.37.4 could be the culprit 05:01:07 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:24 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:29 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ctrfjouhjttfcmez] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:34 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-udllxchwaxxvmbem] has joined #lisp 05:05:18 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student167-129.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:33 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-udllxchwaxxvmbem] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:05 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:41 ack! 1.0.37.4 seems better, but gave this in the sb-queue tests: fault in heap page 21709 not marked as write-protected boxed_region.first_page: 0, boxed_region.last_page -1 05:07:51 i mean 1.0.37.3 seems better 05:08:40 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:08:58 I forgot what a pain it is to track down problems that take >10 minutes to build each time 05:09:43 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-kawtwllloqkhezvw] has joined #lisp 05:10:37 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:10:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:11:08 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:44 mega1_ [~quassel@3e44a624.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:11:51 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:12:28 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:15:39 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d83a34.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:06 ephcon [~ephcon@student167-200.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 05:19:35 would someone recommend structures for storing a multidim array of xy coordinates? 05:19:50 should I use a vector for x coords and another vector for y coords? 05:19:53 i recommend arrays 05:20:01 heh! 05:20:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.107.53] has joined #lisp 05:20:14 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:17 fatblueduck: Use an array of complex numbers 05:20:26 beach: hello! 05:20:49 ok 05:20:57 are you looking for a sparse array that can hold stuff at any x/y, or a fixed-size full matrix? 05:21:45 nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has joined #lisp 05:24:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.107.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:24:44 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 05:25:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pxgrkqgzovxlwnqr] has joined #lisp 05:28:40 Phoodus: I'm storing xy coordinates as follows ((1 0) (2 0) (3 0)) 05:28:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:28:46 which would be a horizontal line 05:29:00 I'm following beach's advice 05:29:00 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:23 are you holding a set of coordinates, or do you want a 2d matrix with a value at each coordinate? 05:29:39 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:29:43 2d matrix 05:30:02 fatblueduck: I think you are contradicting yourself. 05:30:40 CL's arrays are multidimensional... 05:30:47 beach: yeah I think you are right 05:31:35 nostoi [~nostoi@114.Red-79-157-251.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:14 after your suggestion last night I initialized an adjustable vector of type 'double-float 05:32:53 but then when I tried vector-push to push the list of numbers in this didn't work... 05:33:05 and I understand why it failed 05:33:39 just what exactly do you need? meaning what problem do you have, and not solution you're trying to implement 05:34:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:35 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:34:47 stassats`: I'm currently using lists to store xy coordinates that represent a sine wave 05:34:57 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:00 good morning 05:35:05 every single description you've had is totally different 05:35:07 stassats`: I use the coordinates to render an image of the sine wave 05:35:35 Phoodus: I'm sorry I'm trying to be clear and am just fumbling around 05:35:56 so you've basically got a bitmap, and you're plotting functions onto it? 05:36:03 yes 05:36:04 why do you need to store them? 05:36:42 I really don't need to, but I want to. 05:36:56 why do you want to? 05:36:58 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 still, you should be using 2d arrays instead of messing with lists of lists 05:38:05 stassats`: I can imagine in the future I might want to apply some transformations to the coordinates and it would be nice to do this outside of the renering process 05:38:08 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 05:38:42 complex numbers also make a convenient representation for 2d coordinates. not always, but sometimes 05:39:01 but if you want to be able to handle 1d and 3d, lists are better 05:39:11 morning nikodemus 05:39:19 *vectors* are better 05:39:26 yeah, those too 05:39:36 sequences ;) 05:39:42 lipe26-cps [~lipe26-cp@187.106.24.18] has joined #lisp 05:39:55 olá pessoas humanas! 05:39:59 morning slyrus 05:40:12 can I speak Portuguese or just English? 05:40:22 English, please 05:40:27 and Lisp 05:40:28 ok, no worries... 05:40:31 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:42 Can I talk about Scheme or just Lisp? 05:40:44 conses can also be good for 2d coordinates _when_ the values are fixums, but they suck for 3d and non-fixnums 05:41:09 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@3e44a624.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:11 Somebody from Brazil here? 05:41:18 mega1 [~quassel@3e44a624.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:41:35 I just find iterating over variable-length data to be easily handled with mapcar/mapc rather than the sequence operators. The speed isn't that much different, depending on exactly how hard you're pushing it 05:41:51 lipe26-cps: Common Lisp, #scheme for scheme 05:42:00 thank you @stassats'! 05:42:32 slyrus: i haven't seen the build failure myself 05:42:34 it looks like the consensus here is mostly in favor of vectors over conses 05:42:45 vectors are more optimal at runtime 05:42:46 Phoodus: map is a sequence operator 05:42:52 what do you have in customize-target-features.lisp? 05:42:57 Phoodus: optimal for what? 05:42:57 @stassats`, do you prefer Common Lisp? 05:42:58 nikodemus: ok. I've seen it on two boxes here, both with 10.6.3, although I can't imagine what would have changed to cause this 05:43:18 sb-after-xc-core, sb-ldb, sb-thread 05:43:19 should take less memory, might be faster to iterate 05:43:21 lipe26-cps: yes 05:43:46 If arrays were implemented over vectors in CL then it would be nicer. 05:44:04 huh? 05:44:14 Zhivago: what do you mean by that? 05:44:26 Phoodus: what about insertion? 05:44:32 You have row-major-aref which allows you to index an array like a vector. 05:44:32 @stassats`, why? 05:44:33 take two at a time (loop for (key val) in (list :one 1 :two 2 :three 3) do (print (cons key val))) I can has? 05:44:38 if I can ask... 05:44:42 loop syntax 05:44:46 stassats`: you typically do not have insertion for an N-coordinate 05:45:02 If an array were implemented as being a subclass of vector which supported multidimensional indexing in addition to vector indexing ... 05:45:11 ah, i see 05:45:19 then all arrays would be sensible sequences. 05:46:20 displaced arrays can be used for that 05:46:32 Yes, but that requires another object. 05:46:49 It would just have been nicer if they'd built the protocols the other way around. 05:47:17 Rather than having vector be a subtype of array. 05:47:51 That is, having array be a subtype of vector would have been nicer. 05:47:58 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 05:48:33 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:51:49 slyrus: trying to reproduce on 10.5 05:52:26 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44a624.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:53:23 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@114.Red-79-157-251.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:54:24 -!- lipe26-cps [~lipe26-cp@187.106.24.18] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/09/13 16:50:56 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:56:51 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:01 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:03:43 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.72.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:20 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-78-35-194-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:05:11 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:21 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:07:06 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:24 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-151-201.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:07:36 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:07 slyrus: i see it too 06:08:20 i bet it's tied to sb-thread 06:08:36 i don't usually build with threads on darwin 06:09:09 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 06:11:47 -!- vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:11:49 -!- maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 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06:28:34 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-194-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:28:42 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: g'night] 06:29:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pxgrkqgzovxlwnqr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:30:07 yeah, .4 seems ok... .16 not. 06:31:49 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 06:33:05 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 06:33:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-194-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:44 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 06:36:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:37:09 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-194-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:10 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:45:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:47:47 mega1 [~quassel@pool-00097.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:48:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pbdmspiyzonyplkq] has joined #lisp 06:55:11 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:57:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pbdmspiyzonyplkq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:40 xml + lisp is a win 07:00:07 9-line SOAP syntax :-) 07:01:07 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:01:20 good morin 07:01:27 good morning 07:05:34 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 07:07:19 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:14 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:19 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:05 phoenix.geopunk pasted "adventure-game from spells" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97061 07:13:05 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 07:16:01 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:16:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eqgwrnvfnvxcsxcf] has joined #lisp 07:16:16 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 07:25:50 nikodemus: I now called it sb-concurrency, wondering if I should call it sb-concurrent instead 07:28:10 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:28:49 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:29:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755466.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eqgwrnvfnvxcsxcf] has left #lisp 07:33:13 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.76.113] has joined #lisp 07:37:03 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:08 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:41:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.76.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zitwpnolslgiqsxs] has joined #lisp 07:43:18 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:27 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:45:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zitwpnolslgiqsxs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:25 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:53:17 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:56:02 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:31 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:19 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:26 tcr: i don't have an opinion, really 08:03:38 what do the native speakers think? 08:04:22 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 08:08:41 wvdschel [~wim@vpne236.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 08:10:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:10:39 bah 08:10:58 ../../contrib//sb-concurrency/sb-concurrency.texinfo:1: `sb-concurrency' has no Up field (perhaps incorrect sectioning?). 08:10:58 ../../contrib//sb-concurrency/sb-concurrency.texinfo:1: warning: unreferenced node `sb-concurrency'. 08:11:03 any idea? 08:15:03 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 08:17:53 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:19:07 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:44 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@81.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:28:56 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:00 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.46] has joined #lisp 08:33:24 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:36:25 I'm basically done except for the naming issue 08:37:12 So, what is the preferred concurrency lib? 08:38:20 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:40:38 Well, there are always package nicknames, so ... 08:41:14 Zhivago: contrib names are requirable/asdf-loadable 08:43:04 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 08:43:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ymjqtszkrbghxnxs] has joined #lisp 08:44:09 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:47:56 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:53 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:41 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:52 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:07:56 tic: bordeaux-threads seems popular, but i would advice you to use whatever facilities your implementation provides instead 09:08:23 nikodemus, alright, thanks! 09:09:11 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 tic: Yeah I agree. I'd starting reading your implementation's source code. That's what I did at least :-) 09:10:44 hehe 09:13:28 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 09:15:31 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-61-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:15:40 mk [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 09:15:56 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 -!- mk is now known as Guest97667 09:16:18 <_8david> nikodemus: on what basis are you making that recommendation? 09:16:58 <_8david> is a feature set thing, as in "but bxthreads has only locks and cvars, while SBCL supports other stuff, too" or something else? 09:18:31 primarily feature set issue 09:18:48 if you just need mutexes, fine 09:19:15 I think cross-implementation multi-threading is not really possible in CL, and I advise against b-t 09:20:07 cvars are easy to get wrong, and b-t doesn't offer easier-to-use alternatives like semaphores 09:20:17 only because the functions are similiarly named in most implementations does not mean that they don't differ on subtle grounds 09:20:43 no support for atomic operations, so you cannot use lock-free algorithms which are typically more robust 09:22:45 when you use b-t you just add a layer you additionally have to dig through; and most likely you just use it and check your assumptions on your favorite implementation, and cross your fingers that it works elsewhere, too 09:22:59 <_8david> okay. Personally I haven't seen a Lisp library in the wild yet which would have needed more than a minimal feature set. 09:23:34 oh, also: bordeaux-threads doesn't warn against timeouts :) 09:24:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:24:50 _8david: multi threading is mostly an application thing, not a library thing? 09:24:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29:13 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:29:25 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:21 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:48 <_8david> tcr: I guess so 09:39:54 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-00097.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:16 i also got to a point in a web server that b-t was in the way... i had to use sbcl internal directly 09:40:49 attila_lendvai: what was the problem ? 09:42:02 fe[nl]ix, i need to grab mutex A; then grab mutex B; then release mutex A; process session request; release mutex B 09:42:32 and? 09:44:36 <_8david> My thinking is just that if you need to by-pass bxthreads and use SBCL directly, then the problem is not with bxthreads, it's that SBCL isn't supporting bxthreads sufficiently. 09:45:26 tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:30 fe[nl]ix, as far as i remember there only was with-lock... with which i couldn't do it. but if i grab locks myself, then i need without-interrupts, too 09:45:35 _8david: What's needed is not a cross-implementation MT library but a document specifying MT-related behaviour in crucial detail, containing a memory-model etc 09:45:39 Am I doing it wrong? http://pastebin.com/9bgmbDxw 09:46:51 tass: what do you want to achieve? 09:47:02 _8david, see my problem. is there without-interrupts in bt? 09:47:08 (eq (eq function nil) nil) is cute 09:47:11 fe[nl]ix, btw, see that patche over there: http://www.knowledgetools.de/darcs/darcsweb.cgi?r=bordeaux-threads;a=summary 09:47:16 tcr: If the function fucks up, it should ret nil 09:47:28 tcr: Otherwise, return whatever the function *should* return. 09:47:49 tcr: I know : D Love that little hack 09:47:49 What's the condition for "fuck up"? 09:47:55 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 09:48:31 sounds like you may be looking for ignore-errors 09:48:33 The condition for fuck up ought to be encountering something that prohibits continued execution of the code. 09:48:37 <_8david> tcr: I agree that such a document is _also_ needed. For example, I'm excited that Allegro is going to have SMP support that Duane has put work into to make it actually reliable. That is an area where Lisp implementors are required to think hard. 09:48:44 <_8david> tcr: However, the fact that hard problems exist doesn't mean that the easy problem (portable API for simple threading stuff) should be neglected. 09:49:03 _8david: The point is that you can't get the latter without the former. 09:49:28 But now that I think of it, this just checks if it already rets nil, bah. 09:49:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 *tass* is disappointed with his idea. 09:49:57 <_8david> attila_lendvai: To me it sounds like a bug if user code needs to be aware that something like without-interrupts even exists, aside possibly from low-level FFI stuff. 09:50:04 tass: Glad you came to that realization on your own :-) 09:50:27 Which means I need to come up with something cooler. 09:50:44 _8david: Nope, you have to be interrupts aware for using mutexes & condition-variables; these tools are too lowlevel 09:51:58 tass, cl:ignore-errors? 09:52:37 <_8david> tcr: Java manages to offer locks and condition variables without exposing a without-interrupts. I think Lisp should, too. 09:53:00 Don't they throw Interruptions? 09:53:44 attila_lendvai: I'll check it out in the hyperspec 09:53:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpne236.ugent.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:45 tcr: it's not quite the same thing, those interruptions occur only at specific places. And it's a mechanism for controlled thread cancellation, AFAICT. 09:55:40 <_8david> Those ancient methods that interrupt or kill threads are thoroughly deprecated in Java. 09:55:52 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:56:35 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has joined #lisp 09:57:10 _8david: Thread.interrupt() is not deprecated is it? And it can be rather useful. 09:57:16 attila_lendvai: Thanks for showing me that, I'll use it to create a custom one. 09:58:40 Hmm, I'd love to see the definition of that function. 09:58:53 _8david: You can perhaps create a cross-implementation library (combined with the required work on implementations), but it'd be an huge effort. In fact, the effort would first pretty much result in some informal specification. 09:59:15 tcr: not having used mutexes in sbcl, what could go wrong if you hold/unhold an mutex outside an without-interrupt scope? 09:59:40 lharc: random unwinding from your critial secton due to an interrupt (C-c), or interrupt-thread 10:01:27 tcr: can both of those be handled if the thread "remembers" the mutex state, when runned again? 10:01:58 e.g. unwinding between a (setf (foo-status) :changed) and a (frob-for-change), resulting in inconsistent state 10:02:44 basically you want to unroll your not-finished-state-changes on interruption, i.e. stm? :-) 10:03:19 <_8david> You should only be able to interrupt something that is specifically waiting on an interruptible operation (like Thread.interrupt() is specified to do). Now, if code wants to wait on an interruptible operation in the middle of a critical section, that code doesn't belong into user code, but needs to be provided by the implementation. 10:05:39 Right 10:06:01 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:06:02 That's what pthread cancelation does in the C world, and I'm wondering why we doesn't make use of that and lift it into the Lisp world 10:06:30 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:52 How did one check the implementation of a function/macro using slime? 10:09:40 M-. 10:09:48 M-* to jump back 10:10:05 Cheers! 10:11:34 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 10:11:57 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:12:03 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:14:51 _8david: one of the major problems in lisp vs java is that java handles conditions after the stack has been unwound 10:15:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:15:30 tcr: i have always used M-, :/ 10:15:33 nikodemus: please refrain from committing anything in the next 10mins :-) 10:15:43 You can think of it as java lacking signal handling. 10:15:45 jdz: me, too, but the standard emacs key-binding for is M-* 10:16:04 in lisp the condition system really causes trouble for threaded code: either everything needs to be re-entrant, or you need to have your own handler that unwinds from the critical section and resignals the condition 10:16:16 jdz: In ECL, you can jump into the c-source where M-* will continue to work, but M-, won't so I relearned 10:16:19 tcr: sure :) 10:17:03 tcr: it's one keybinding in .elisp 10:19:55 _2x2l [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:26 <_8david> nikodemus: shouldn't critical sections just take care not to trigger conditions? 10:21:59 <_8david> Lisp conditions aren't that special, they are just user code implemented on top of low-level non-local transfer of control. You can implement a condition system in Java if you want. 10:23:02 <_8david> So if you're implementing a Java VM, you shouldn't call random user methods in a critical section, because those user methods might do random stuff. Similarly, a critical section in Lisp shouldn't random user functions that might do random things. 10:23:54 <_8david> Conditions just count as random code in that sense. 10:27:11 _8david: yes, critical sections should take care 10:27:33 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:28:29 but it's not just critical sections at the vm level, but user critical sections as well -- you know, stuff you wrap in WITH-MUTEX 10:28:31 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has joined #lisp 10:29:10 bah I hate pcl-cvs 10:29:17 (and cvs) 10:33:45 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:34:46 _8david: well, when you do so, you call your new Java Condition System: Armed Bear Common Lisp... 10:35:13 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:57 DDAZZA [~DDAZZA@cpc3-leed1-0-0-cust305.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:24 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:44:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755466.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:37 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:51:34 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.133.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:23 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:08 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 10:53:27 xinming [~hyy@125.109.74.2] has joined #lisp 10:54:47 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:55:16 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:57:21 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-80.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:59:08 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:01:11 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:01:15 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-242-153.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:18 Hey boys 11:01:20 and girls :) 11:02:00 I'm wondering. when I type in (append (list 1 2) 3) into scheme, I get (1 2 . 3) as a result. 11:02:07 What does the dot mean? 11:02:20 Oh wait. nvm, I'll ask in #scheme :) 11:03:02 It's occasionally known as a "consing dot", and means that the 3 is in the CDR of a CONS (whatever the scheme terminology is), rather than in the CAR with a CDR of NIL (or whatever scheme uses). 11:04:19 That sounds right. Do you know how I would be able to append the 3 to the (list 1 2) using a lib function? Or should I just hack my own? 11:04:38 Basically so I get a (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) 11:04:46 (append (list 1 2) (list 3)) might work. I'm not familiar with scheme's library 11:05:10 Adlai: Beauty, it does work :) 11:05:28 thanks a lot guys, I know I shouldn't be bothering you with scheme questions ;) 11:07:23 well this is #lisp, while CL oriented 11:07:38 We do end up learning about a lot of non-CL lisps. 11:07:39 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-191-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:02 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:22 wvdschel [~wim@120.103-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:09:10 Hello, I want to display an image using CLX in the simplest possible way. But I get a "Asynchronous MATCH-ERROR": http://pastebin.com/nQK7a3xU 11:10:27 Does anyone know a small test application (like mandelbrot) that does this thing in CLX? 11:10:58 An actual PutImage request? Not sure, offhand. 11:11:09 But, there are only so many ways to get a Match error from that. 11:11:50 I guess that makes sense, it is called ##lisp after all :) 11:11:59 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:12:31 And most of them amount to not taking into account that PutImage, unlike most other requests, takes image data in formats that the server prefers, rather than what the client prefers. 11:12:53 I'm doing SICP, so I think I'll hang here, in case I've got anymore questions... 11:13:02 that create-image call looks a bit light on keyword args 11:13:09 Yeah, I was thinking that. 11:13:23 Well, more thinking "isn't the default to create a -planar- bitmap?" 11:15:00 Ah, it's an xy if depth is 1, and a z otherwise. 11:15:09 Which is fine, normally. 11:15:24 And depth defaults to 1. 11:16:00 ... Can the server even handle that kind of a depth mismatch? 11:16:24 *hefner* shrugs 11:16:33 (A bitmap being presented as a depth-1 xy-pixmap, on a z-pixmap display?) 11:16:57 Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:18:10 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:19:26 Guest97667: have you tried adding :depth and/or :bits-per-pixel keywords? These are almost certainly necessary. 11:19:46 hefner: no, i'll try 11:21:26 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:06 <_8david> isn't it (list height width) for X? 11:24:25 No, in create-image they're separate keyword args. 11:24:32 <_8david> for the data array, I mean 11:24:39 Ah. Dunno. 11:24:45 I mostly don't use the image stuff. 11:24:56 yeah, sounds right. 11:25:14 _8david: Its quadratic with 300x300 anyway. 11:26:16 hefner: I think create-image figures out that it has to use a 32 bits-per-pixel z-image if I give it a 2d array of (unsigned-byte 32). 11:27:04 Guest97667: Have you tested this? 11:27:08 hefner: :depth 32 and :bits-per-pixel 32 doesn't help 11:27:28 mega1 [~quassel@3e44a624.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:27:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:27:50 sorry, it's been too long since I used it to remember the right combination offhand, and I don't really feel like firing up mcclim to see what it feeds in. 11:28:00 Hrm... Guess it does. 11:28:14 nyef: I look at the connections with Wireshark. Do you know a better way to debug this? 11:28:32 I usually use some variation on the Feynman method. 11:29:01 (The critical step of which is "think real hard".) 11:29:55 Try looking at the manual page for the C XPutImage() or whatever it's called to see what can cause a match error? 11:30:07 *hefner* prefers the brute force approach of trying all combinations of 24/32 bit depths, and (unsigned-byte 8) versus (unsigned-byte 32) arrays 11:30:13 <_8david> :width and :height on the put-image certainly couldn't hurt 11:31:17 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 11:31:41 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:32:00 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:32:01 pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has joined #lisp 11:32:07 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:34:46 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:24 Cool, the option :depth 24 to create-image made it work! Apparently the image must have the same depth as the screen (screen-root-depth screen). 11:39:32 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:40:09 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 11:40:31 yeah, X11 sucks like that. 11:42:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:14 Ok folks, please do not try to build sbcl head yet 11:42:19 It actually has to match that of the DRAWABLE the image is being drawn to, but that works out to the depth of the root window of th screen. 11:42:44 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:42:49 (Unless you're drawing to a PIXMAP.) 11:43:55 -!- mikezor_ [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:48:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:44 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:57:36 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ymjqtszkrbghxnxs] has left #lisp 12:01:10 sliq [~sliq@port0002-abh-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:17 -!- sliq [~sliq@port0002-abh-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:33 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:03:37 gigamonk`: herep? 12:10:21 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Quit: arg] 12:11:44 -!- evanrmurphy [~4a6223f3@gateway/web/freenode/x-tvsequpdqccwgdkg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13:11 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 12:16:19 p_l: herpa derp? 12:16:31 ? 12:16:40 tass, it's a predicate. pronounced ? 12:17:02 Nevermind me : D 12:17:03 #'zerop = zero? = is zero 12:17:11 TYPE-ERROR, expected type #'BOOL 12:17:16 herpesp? 12:17:17 Hoo, new SBCL, groovy stuff 12:17:45 what in particular? 12:18:15 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:07 The main new feature in any release of SBCL is a higher version number, of course! 12:19:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:19:21 Ah. A good feature, indeed. 12:19:42 leifw` [~user@ool-45721672.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:53 *p_l* stays on 1.0.35 12:20:54 *nyef* is still running 1.0.32.37. 12:21:04 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:21:13 -!- leifw [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:21:22 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:34 -!- leifw` is now known as leifw 12:22:00 *Xach* is on 1.0.6 12:22:18 *Xach* needs to upgrade so postmodern works 12:22:34 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:22:42 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 12:22:42 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 12:22:42 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 12:24:14 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:26:59 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:45 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:30:02 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:35:36 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:40:45 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:06 sliq [~sliq@208.138.34.69] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 -!- rsynnott_ is now known as rsynnott 12:43:51 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 12:44:41 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-80.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:44:45 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 12:45:10 hi 12:45:26 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:51 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.235.141.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:47:47 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:48 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-33-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:51:00 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:51:12 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-169.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 hello Evet 12:52:34 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 tcr: are you going to blog about sb-concurrency? 12:56:18 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:50 Perhaps I first have to fix the build :-) I forgot to commit a file, and found a problem in one of the test case 12:59:52 tcr: it is very exciting, and it's always nice to hear about it from an authority, who can explain the ideas, context, and inspiration for it 12:59:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:05 haha authority 13:00:19 nobody will know otherwise! 13:00:27 I see what you did there ;) 13:00:44 bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:15 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:04:55 hm no minion 13:05:05 What? Again? 13:05:39 Right, none of the bots. 13:06:20 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:06:22 I'm not sure which to be more annoyed at, freenode for being so... disconnecty... lately, or the bots for not having even the ability to realize that they've -been- disconnected. 13:07:11 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:17 bots 13:07:19 easily! 13:07:54 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:17 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:00 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:00 HG` [~HG@xdslfu243.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:06 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:31 Okay, bots are back. 13:10:27 I swear I'm not a bot 13:10:37 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:07 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:12:26 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:43 ... Okay, WTF? 13:12:54 Seriously, a pingout this soon? 13:13:40 Axius [~hi@109.97.56.57] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 Not low on sockets, either. 13:14:46 tritchey: I was suspicious, given the timing of your entrance, but given that you're still here and the bots aren't... 13:14:59 good point 13:15:01 Xach: What was so stupid about LP's atom feed again that it's not subscribed at planet.lisp? 13:15:15 it is terrible 13:15:20 it contains no content 13:15:44 Well, for the content just click the link? 13:16:58 tcr: planet sbcl, you mean? 13:17:19 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 On that note I wouldn't mind if PL cut off the text after a couple of lines / x words. There's some awful long blog posts one has to scroll through sometimes. 13:17:55 aerique: I strongly prefer full entries. 13:18:09 yes planet sbcl 13:18:12 Xach: that's settled then :) 13:18:27 I do not understand why LP front page does not list the newest entries anymore 13:18:48 tcr: At one time I thought about making a better launchpad feed somehow. Since I don't have time to do that, I think I will just add it as-is. 13:18:54 probably on the assumption that listing the hottest bugs will prevent people from submitting duplicates 13:20:50 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:49 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 nunb [~nundan@122.173.199.92] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:39 minion: Are you okay? 13:32:40 maybe 13:32:52 minion: Let's see if you can stay online for, say... an hour? 13:32:53 ok, you see if me can stay online for say an hour first 13:33:17 Clearly, we need better natural language handling on minion. 13:33:57 at least he's agreeable 13:34:18 minion: Are you agreeable? 13:34:19 yes 13:34:25 He is that, at least. 13:34:58 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:35:18 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:36:26 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:36:33 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.56.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:05 zu22 [kvirc@unaffiliated/zu22] has joined #lisp 13:38:14 hi 13:39:51 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:43:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.164.168] has joined #lisp 13:46:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:22 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.164.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:53 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:49:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dzkoachzpelxuoge] has joined #lisp 13:49:27 -!- leifw [~user@ool-45721672.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:49:34 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:50:36 minion: Still there? 13:50:37 you speak nonsense 13:50:39 Good. 13:53:27 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:53:53 carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.168] has joined #lisp 13:57:58 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 14:00:03 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:32 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 14:01:33 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-169.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:16 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has joined #lisp 14:06:49 nyef: hi 14:06:58 minion: hello sir 14:06:59 what's up? 14:07:05 minion: LISP 14:07:05 LISP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 14:07:11 zu22: Hello. 14:07:44 Minion has about 25 minutes of that hour left. 14:08:12 heh 14:08:14 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 Anyone know if there is a way I can have a C program call a Lisp program? 14:08:51 use the shell? 14:08:56 ... I can think of two or three... 14:09:07 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:09:11 npoektop [~npoektop@94.25.173.47] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 One is, yes, fork/exec. 14:09:46 hrm I'm wondering if I'm seeing that lost wakeup bug 14:09:53 zu22: define "call a lisp program" 14:10:09 -!- mindCrime_ is now known as mindCrime 14:10:29 <_3b> you could embed ecl, or use some sort of ipc or network connection 14:10:52 http://9gag.com/photo/19895_full.jpg <--- hahahaha 14:11:17 p_l: run lisp code, such a recursive function 14:11:19 <_3b> soe implementations (mostly the commercial ones aside from ecl?) might support creating a shared lib from lisp code 14:11:21 _3b: ah 14:11:35 <_3b> most of us prefer to call C code from lisp though 14:11:45 i see 14:12:09 but really, invoking a lisp program is no different than C invoking any other program 14:12:55 zu22: you can also pass a callback from CL program to a C library 14:13:04 (for implementations that support callbacks) 14:13:30 cool 14:13:54 lnostdal [~6dbd4e2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-rgsenqpzfdiiayft] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 SBCL doesn't support creating a shared lib from lisp code, but some of us might be able to make it happen anyway. 14:15:19 but do you still get access to the OS program exit value? 14:15:37 ... Why wouldn't you? 14:16:07 zu22: what are you asking for anyway? The only thing I'm seeing is stdio or exit values for calling out to a lisp program anyway, unless you want to communicate via files or sockets or something 14:16:07 hmmm... using relocatable patch, unthreaded SBCL-in-a-dll should be quite easy... 14:17:04 Hah! 14:19:07 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-119-169.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:20:27 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:35 ... some more weird trivia like that, and I could start a regular column in CQ about "standard functions you didn't have any idea of existing" 14:21:41 Phoodus: was curious 14:22:24 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:03 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:27:33 zu22: if you're talking about programs and not library code or linked-in stuff, then there's no difference at all between a lisp program and one from any other language 14:28:35 Phoodus: ok, i heard there is a web server written in Lisp for Linux but it has C hooks to integrate with kernel 14:29:38 zu22: eh ? 14:30:04 fe[nl]ix: ya something like that 14:30:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:06 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:36 Given that it's a lot easier to use libc than to inline a syscall, using C hooks to integrate with the linux kernel seems almost normal. 14:31:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dzkoachzpelxuoge] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:11 -!- mrarm [mrarm@plox.tor.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:32:14 linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:32:29 (Not that I don't have experiments on inlined-syscall for SBCL on x86oids in my copious archives.) 14:33:32 minion: Your hour is up, are you still here? 14:33:33 what's up? 14:33:43 Good enough. Time for phase two. 14:33:54 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:33:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 14:33:55 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:34:39 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 14:34:39 minion: How's your response time now? 14:34:43 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:44 you speak nonsense 14:34:57 A little worrisome... 14:35:09 nyef: easier to use libc? 14:35:37 nyef: that didn't seem like an *obvious* win to me, except for compatibility with foreign libraries 14:35:50 -!- lnostdal [~6dbd4e2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-rgsenqpzfdiiayft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:05 Saves having to know how to syscall on -every- target platform and OS. 14:36:15 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:43 but...but...only Linux AMD64 matters :) 14:36:53 Saves having to reimplement everything that you need that is in libc instead of the kernel... 14:37:09 Tell that to the win32 folks. Or those poor Mac users. 14:37:23 the win32 folks cannot be pleased 14:37:56 first they complain that they have no fur coat, and then they complain of the fleas. 14:41:00 *p_l* wonders what would be the performance difference of going through libc instead of calling syscalls directly... 14:42:02 seeing as calling out to the system is generally something that's going to be slow & to be avoided doing much in performance-oriented code, probably not much 14:43:01 good morning 14:43:07 hi slyrus. 14:43:25 hey xach. has springtime hit maine yet? 14:43:45 Phoodus: unless you are perfomance-intensive in OS-cooperation 14:43:50 6 weeks early. i had hoped to take erik skiing, and it rained out. 14:43:50 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.235.141.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 14:43:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:07 netytan [~netytan@85.211.47.172] has joined #lisp 14:45:12 bummer! 14:45:54 the weather has improved to the point where i feel bad about staying inside and hacking lisp. 14:46:06 a tragic situation :( 14:46:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:03 every time i decide i might have a few moments for hacking on something interesting, i discover some nagging tool problem that saps my attention 14:48:11 minion: memo for nikodemus: .9 seems to be OK (well, it has different problems, but not this one) 14:48:11 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 14:48:47 Hrm... Does minion remember memos in memory or on disk? 14:49:20 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755466.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:50:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-atemiujafkfccylk] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:55:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 14:55:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:55:25 mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:56:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:02:30 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 15:02:34 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:10 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:52 tritchey_ [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 15:07:54 minion: Still there? 15:07:55 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 15:08:25 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:51 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 15:09:17 so what sort of hackery is minion undergoing? 15:09:44 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:10:06 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:49 tritchey_ [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 Monitoring to see if there's anything obvious causing it to ping out too fast. 15:12:14 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 slyrus, this pretty closely matches my experience 15:13:47 -!- rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:54 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 15:15:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-atemiujafkfccylk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:23 rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:19:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:21 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:28 -!- psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:19:33 hm small deadlines do not seem to play well with GC 15:20:57 Fun, isn't it? I expect you want to combine short deadlines on syscalls with not allowing GC while the deadline is active, right? 15:22:20 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:22:46 Is there some internal time limit for GC? 15:23:10 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:31 Sortof? It takes exactly the amount of time required to do the job, and not longer? 15:24:35 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-18-192.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:30 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-149-88.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:25 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-18-192.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:28:37 can't you ration GCing, at least at a generation granularity? 15:29:00 Well, in principle.. 15:29:10 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.46] has quit [Quit: off] 15:29:49 If you say I want this operation to timeout after 0.01 seconds, I guess sometimes you really do mean real time, but don't you usually mean 0.01 seconds of run-time of this function (excl. GC)? 15:30:37 argh. why does ECL hate me? 15:30:50 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:31:09 I think maybe it's punishing me for using catch/throw instead of the condition system. 15:31:29 reciprocity? 15:32:08 I wouldn't put that past it. 15:33:13 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 15:33:27 what's the standard way to check what dialect of Common Lisp the user is running a program under? 15:34:07 poet: lisp-implementation-type, perhaps? 15:34:11 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:15 clhs lisp-implementation-type 15:34:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_lisp_i.htm 15:34:37 nyef: excellent, that'll do it. thanks 15:34:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:22 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:38:16 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-42-26.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:27 I would't mind that catch/throw reliably don't work in my app if I could construct an isolated test case for it. I can't very well mail juanjo with a bug he won't be able to reproduce, and I don't actually like ECL enough to let myself spend the rest of the evening debugging this. 15:39:30 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 15:40:29 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:02 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 15:43:04 milanj [~milan@109.93.77.52] has joined #lisp 15:43:23 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:44:07 minion: memo for nikodemus: .9 is not OK. disregard the first memo. 15:44:08 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 15:46:33 does it make sense to forward declare with defclass? 15:46:43 poet [~poet@vpn3-144145.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:43 -!- poet [~poet@vpn3-144145.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:43 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 15:46:54 ... Why would you need to -forward- declare a defclass? 15:46:57 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:27 The class hierarchy is a DAG anyway, isn't it? 15:47:38 *hefner* is reminded of ancient CMUCL bugs 15:48:02 nyef: don't need to, but the alternative is moving a function declaration around, so wondered 15:48:09 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:48:57 carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.210] has joined #lisp 15:49:12 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 15:49:32 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:36 nyef: Maybe for using the class-to-be-defined in :type? 15:51:19 *hefner* can't imagine there's much benefit to be had declaring something to be a CLOS instance 15:54:14 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:10 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 15:56:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:33 CMUCL had these GC messages, is that available in SBCL, too, just disabled? 15:57:33 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:00:44 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:55 nunb: why can't you simply define the function later than the class? Declaring the class in the same file as the function and not willing to move it? 16:01:15 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:01:30 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:01:31 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:03:36 p_l: in essence, yes. it's an opensource project, and I wondered if there were alternatives to moving the fn. inside the same file .. (class and fn. are in same file) 16:03:53 I'd split the file, actually :D 16:04:02 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:09 there's no excuse, really :P 16:04:25 tcr: You can add a post-gc message easily enough, I think. 16:04:39 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:05:10 zan-xhipe [~user@41.133.107.78] has joined #lisp 16:07:04 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:07:06 p_l: also, exporting the symbol in question seems to do the trick. 16:07:20 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:07:22 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-19.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:07:22 dlowe, in parse-timestring... there's an (or month 3) and a (or year 2000)... shouldn't they be (or month 1) and (or year 0)? 16:07:28 p_l: yes, I think splitting the file is the best idea (there are some signs it's actually been concatenated :-) 16:08:33 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:08:35 hello 16:08:36 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:39 attila_lendvai: I guess so, reading the docstring 16:09:21 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:09:52 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:03 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:37 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:12 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:22 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:12:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:12:57 hmm.. do you think a 512MB Atom-based server would work ok with SBCL+PostgreSQL+nginx? 16:13:04 (storage over iSCSI) 16:13:07 spiff [~wim@d54C18A3C.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 -!- spiff [~wim@d54C18A3C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:25 mwahuha found another lost wakeup bug in condition-wait 16:13:39 p_l: I have a 1GB Atom-based netbook that works ok with SBCL. 16:14:07 nyef: this is for deployment, though. So I wonder if I should go with this, or go with linode 16:14:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:14:27 jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has joined #lisp 16:14:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:38 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 hmm... linode would probably have much faster I/O, though lower amount of RAM and space... 16:15:25 -!- wvdschel [~wim@120.103-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:15:43 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:16:41 dlowe: and valid-timestamp-p doesn't allow for year 0, which might be intended 16:16:59 kami`: actually, there is no year 0 16:17:28 years go from 1 to -1 16:17:28 dlowe: yes, I know. But, it would help when encoding some database's data types 16:18:05 dlowe: I could then squeeze a TIME column (without date) into a local-time:timestamp 16:18:43 dlowe: but if forbidding year 0 is intentional, I will use some other convention 16:18:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:54 silenius [~silenius@f053015001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:46 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:19:52 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:20:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 16:21:48 ... not going for Atom 16:22:04 Any particular deal-killer? 16:23:23 nyef: idiotic pricing when it came to disk speed 16:23:33 (it was a server deal) 16:23:33 Ah. 16:23:39 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 16:24:31 after adding 10MB/s guaranteed disk bandwidth, it went up to ~600 USD 16:25:36 twilightstar [~man@adsl-8-59-198.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:36 hey anyone know where I can get the lisp compiler 16:25:36 and an ide 16:25:36 twilightstar: SBCL + Emacs + SLIME? :D 16:25:41 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:25:42 http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/lisp-answers/ has some info 16:26:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:27:48 nyef: Atom cpu (single core), 512MB ram, 20GB over iSCSI with 10MB/s min. bandwidth = $51.99 per month (US dollars per month). IMHO ridiculous 16:28:04 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:19 p_l I am on windows 16:28:21 lol 16:28:22 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 twilightstar: the serious windows lispers i know tend to use http://www.lispworks.com/ 16:28:44 nyef: while Linode 720 costs $39.95 16:29:30 -!- DDAZZA [~DDAZZA@cpc3-leed1-0-0-cust305.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:44 p_l: who's doing the atom-based servers? 16:29:46 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:52 twilightstar: for learning, GNU clisp or Corman CL might be enough. There's also ClozureCL for open-source compiler (has some issues), then you have SBCL with its kittehs and commercial implementations 16:29:56 rsynnott: OVH 16:30:15 are the death-kittehs still there? 16:30:39 rsynnott: dunno about the message, but AFAIK they still strike 16:30:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:40 or doom, possibly. It might have been doom 16:31:57 "Your kitten of death awaits!" 16:32:35 still, I think I'd rather go with linode with such prices 16:33:46 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:54 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:27 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:39:19 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39:36 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:44 _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:58 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 16:42:41 -!- pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:54 charging for disk bandwidth seems odd 16:43:13 tcr: do you know how to print an ECL object from GDB? I've tried to use cl_print, but I'm not sure where to get a stream from (nor the value of T or NIL). 16:44:32 nope sorry 16:44:46 ask juanjo and tell him to write a HACKING file :-) 16:45:28 shame he spends so much time fixing irrelevant nonsense like ASDF issues :) 16:46:23 rsynnott: they made the servers "cheap" by putting all storage into SAN, while leasing small dedicated servers 16:46:54 ah 16:46:57 not really a bad idea 16:47:13 many people barely need disk access to have any guaranteed speed 16:47:21 and will be more concerned about IOP/s anyway 16:47:26 rsynnott: yeah, except they made it ridiculously expensive when you expect lot of disk traffic 16:47:42 yeah 16:47:47 and people's experience is that if you have any disk-intensive app then you're screwed 16:47:47 kami`, local-time is lacking quite a lot of things... don't expect to be able to map sql values to local-time values... http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/local-time-devel/2010-February/000194.html 16:47:51 I suppose they're going on the basis that most people don't 16:48:13 it's okay for low-end personal webserver, torrent client, etc. 16:48:24 even most database-driven apps don't actually do that much writing 16:48:40 and as long as the working set fits in memory they should be fine 16:48:46 hefner: The swank backends can specify default gdb commands to be executed when you attach gdb from Slime. E.g. we could define a gdb macro for printing 16:49:34 rsynnott: except when I considered placing web site with lots of images, FTP server that has to accept big transfers (from clients, with pdf/ps/psd/tiff/etc.) and run SBCL on top of that.... 16:50:15 yeah, that isn't going to work that well 16:51:47 for lower price, you can get Linode 720, which is a xen instance, 720MB ram, 32G storage (compared to default 20 with OVH), and costs ~40USD/month 16:52:51 sure, it has limited transfer (unlike OVH's unmetered 100MBit/s) but it seems much nicer feature-wise. And the storage isn't dog-slow 16:54:51 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfu243.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:55:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:55:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:56:38 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: away!] 17:02:37 hm ok I can reproduce some kind of bug if I C-z Emacs 17:02:42 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: o/] 17:02:49 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:49 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 17:02:51 there's lot of output going from the inferior lisp via the socket to Emacs 17:03:14 if I `fg' back the bug is triggered 17:03:35 are signals propagated to child processes? 17:04:15 oh, duh, cl_print(1, [foo]) is one way to do it. I didn't actually look at the args for cl_print. 17:04:17 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:05:09 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.77.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:20 -!- mtd_ is now known as mtd 17:05:46 naturally, as soon as I figure this out, the damn thing starts working again. combine that with my previous random flailing around trying to make it work, and you get a lot of frustration where you think you fixed it, then it breaks again later. 17:06:44 oh you cannot catch sigstop, hrm 17:06:50 but you can catch sigcont? huh 17:09:36 ..and this is why I don't bother trying to debug ECL and it's daily bullshit heisenbugs. 17:09:38 milanj [~milan@109.93.133.17] has joined #lisp 17:09:58 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:25 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:55 anyone made a big app with Parenscript? 17:21:27 minion: parenscript 17:21:28 parenscript: Parenscript is a translator from an extended subset of Common Lisp to JavaScript. http://www.cliki.net/parenscript 17:23:06 guaqua: basically, I'm planning on making a rather big AJAX-y chunk of code to work with CL backend 17:23:23 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:57 p_l: we used parenscript throughout Paragent, but we didn't really do much ajaxy stuff with it 17:24:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:16 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 17:24:18 though I wonder if I shouldn't just use parenscript only for the "normal www" side and do the massively-JSy stuff with Cappuccino 17:25:27 all the heavy lifting was in ucw 17:25:38 tritchey_: well, I got the wonderful idea of adding an on-site vector editor for preparing simple business cards and similar publications 17:26:24 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:27:07 so the "business intelligence" is still on the server side, but the client can play with his ideas in the browser. And I'm not that inclined towards flash :D 17:27:25 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:51 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-139-33.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 hi 17:36:25 what is wrong with this command 17:36:30 (define size 2) 17:36:38 it's for scheme 17:37:18 huh? 17:37:28 I am new 17:37:33 at his 17:37:39 this* 17:37:47 a dialect of lisp 17:38:07 defun defines functions 17:38:18 defvar deine variables 17:38:58 In scheme, which has a single namespace, define defines both. 17:39:05 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-156-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:39:16 That said, we mostly don't deal with scheme here, there's a #scheme channel for that. 17:39:25 ok 17:41:30 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:43 scheme has its own channel #scheme 17:49:41 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.133.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:56 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:09 -!- silenius [~silenius@f053015001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:51:47 -!- twilightstar [~man@adsl-8-59-198.mia.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 17:52:40 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.225] has joined #lisp 17:54:38 milanj [~milan@109.93.75.91] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 17:55:29 Good evening! 17:56:22 Hello beach. 17:56:55 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-244-120.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:57:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:57:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:57:41 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has joined #lisp 17:59:01 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-241-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:51 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 Question: is there an easy way to print a mixed-case s-expression (with || around non upper symbols) that strips the vertical bars *without* stripping quotes around strings? 18:03:31 rpg: Might be something around readtable-case, or print-case or something like that? 18:03:32 I read these with (readtable-case :preserve) but now realize I don't know the output equivalent of readtable-case :preserve.... 18:03:57 nyef: I thought it was print-case, but that specifically does not meddle with the vertical-barred symbols... 18:05:09 Ah! It's the combination of readtable-case and print-readably! 18:05:25 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:06:29 chaining readtable-case will affect the printer too 18:06:54 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:04 no print-readably needed: (let ((*readtable* (copy-readtable *readtable*))) (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve) (print '(|a| "aaaa"))) => (a "aaaa") 18:08:52 clhs 22.1.3.3.2 18:08:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_accb.htm 18:09:36 Wah! I do all this legwork while my catch initializes, taking notes of the address of the catch tag, where on the stack the frame is established, setting up tracepoints and memory breakpoints to catch the invisible enemy in the act of screwing things up.. 18:09:48 HG` [~HG@xdslhf065.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:07 ..and then when I continue the process, it freezes mysteriously and won't run. 18:10:40 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 stassats`: thanks. 18:13:08 generating emacs-lisp from common lisp is a weird thing to do... 18:13:09 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082C8F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:23 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082EF15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:31 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-19.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:33 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:01 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:43 rpg: is it less weird or more weird to generate something like javascript from cl? 18:17:33 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:34 Xach: tough call --- subjectively, more weird because of the way emacs-lisp is like but unlike. Kinda like the difference between German and Hebrew for an English speaker... 18:18:37 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.164.168] has joined #lisp 18:20:38 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA826B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:36 Axius [~hi@92.82.74.30] has joined #lisp 18:21:55 god dammit. I'm pretty certain I used to be able to debug ECL in gdb before juanjo added this stupid signal handling thread. Or maybe that was in the good old days of building it with threads disabled. Whatever. 18:23:19 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.164.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:23:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vaiizuastsrjzyvk] has joined #lisp 18:25:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vaiizuastsrjzyvk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:06 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-221.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:27:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:14 -!- zu22 [kvirc@unaffiliated/zu22] has left #lisp 18:29:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:47 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 18:32:26 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:32:41 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.75.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:32:59 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:00 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:01 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 18:34:12 how is the require function related to ASDF? 18:34:33 Guthur [~Michael@host86-148-30-217.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:07 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.74.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:38 it's not. All that require does is tell the system to load in lisp code that it knows how to locate (in the 1-parameter usage) 18:35:51 poet: in some CL implementations (e.g. sbcl), asdf can be made to hook into the require functionality 18:36:08 poet: require's behavior for one argument is not very tightly specified. 18:36:58 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:37:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:37:39 milanj [~milan@109.93.129.64] has joined #lisp 18:37:46 Xach: ok, so asdf can be a defaco standard in some cases, but that's not guaranteed by the ANSI spec 18:38:03 CLISP, for instance, doesn't have ASDF anywhere in its install, so require doesn't know about it 18:38:06 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:39:13 so the hyperspec lists require as implementation dependent. Is load is the closest thing to a guarenteed standard? 18:39:16 minion: tell poet about packages 18:39:17 poet: have a look at packages: http://weitz.de/packages.html http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html http://flownet.com/ron/packages.pdf 18:39:19 *guarenteed 18:39:44 you are pretty much correct 18:39:47 poet: are you trying to make sure you've got asdf loaded, or are you trying to use provide/require more generally? 18:39:51 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-73-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:00 poet: asdf isn't part of the standard. 18:40:03 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:17 Phoodus: I'm toying with a package manager, and I'm trying to figure out what I can actually use. Seems like load is the ticket 18:40:31 *with implementing a package manager 18:41:02 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-dudhlficlxcymfao] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 provide/require are more about making sure that something's only loaded once, even though there are multiple places telling that they need it 18:41:37 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:37 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 using the *modules* variable, as specified 18:42:01 ok, that makes sense. But a drop in replacement for asdf couldn't use provide or require 18:42:03 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:42:12 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:42:22 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-194-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:48 "drop in" would imply using the same .asd file format and all that 18:42:59 errr yeah, my mistake 18:43:04 not drop in 18:43:19 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host86-148-30-217.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:43:23 why do you need a replacement for asdf? 18:43:38 huh, "the variable *modules* is deprecated", from the variable's own clhs page 18:44:12 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-dudhlficlxcymfao] has left #lisp 18:44:31 <_3b> Phoodus: as are provide and require 18:44:37 deprecated is deprecated 18:44:38 right,s o I see 18:45:05 <_3b> probably for the same reasons we use asdf instead 18:46:01 stassats`: oh it works just fine. I don't think it's the answer though. 18:47:33 anyone know if you can have a memory breakpoint in GDB (ala 'watch') that doesn't break the program, just print the new value (and maybe do other actions)? 18:48:20 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:30 couple of simple things off the top of my head: built in documentation generation system, automatic unit testing, central repository website that displays said documentation and results of said tests, standardized reader macros to make library operations take less typing 18:48:53 the last thing is wrong 18:49:13 hefner: you can do that for any breakpoint "commands" 18:49:27 hefner: commands 18:49:30 print whatever 18:49:35 stassats`: what's wrong about it? 18:49:38 continue 18:49:38 end 18:49:39 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:53 (if you want it to be quiter, insert "silent" as the first command) 18:49:59 also, you probably want to "set height 0" 18:50:08 (outside of the commands bit) 18:51:21 poet: do you know of mudballs? 18:51:22 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.129.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:51:52 guaqua: no 18:51:56 http://www.cliki.net/Mudballs 18:52:01 foom: ah, thanks. I'll try that, if I have the patience to reestablish this context again. I accidentally disabled one too many breakpoints, and whenever I control-c my program to get gdb back, it breaks everything horribly and I have to restart (or worse; now I'm somehow frozen out of gdb too) 18:52:50 hefner: control-c is tricky: it gets sent to everything in your process group, which is sometimes the wrong thing. it's helpful in those situations to attach gdb from another console 18:52:53 i don't know if the source code is still somewhere. someone around here might know 18:53:19 hefner: or at least send kill -INT from another console 18:53:49 *hefner* watches as gdb and/or ECL go nuts and spam the terminal with endless errors 18:54:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54:32 guaqua: yeah I'm trying to track it down 18:54:40 looks promising though, thanks for the tip 18:54:48 no prob 18:56:14 -!- zan-xhipe [~user@41.133.107.78] has left #lisp 18:57:20 jmbr [~jmbr@81.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:58:12 ugh, gdb. :-( I'll probably start having nightmares soon. 18:58:36 I really need to move my development over to windows, so I don't have to use this piece of garbage. 18:58:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:19 (instead I can use a different piece of garbage) 18:59:20 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.173.199.92] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:59:35 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-168-120.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 tried ddd or insightå 19:00:03 ? 19:00:16 somehow ECL's debugger always grabs the SIGINT, which I absolutely don't want to happen, but then it breaks into gdb with a "SIG36" from somewhere in the bowels of the graphics driver 19:00:59 except, of course, that once I've disturbed the ECL debugger, there's a good change I'll never get my program to run again. 19:01:07 *chance 19:01:14 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-56-7.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:48 tic: I tried ddd in 1998 and decided that things wrapping around gdb are bad news, if that counts. 19:02:18 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:02:25 hefner: send gdb from another terminal 19:02:29 hefner, aha. 19:02:34 hefner: er, send gdb the SIGINT 19:02:45 but yeah, what foom said. 19:03:25 jmbr_ [~jmbr@171.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:03:27 the problem is that unix terminal handling and signals are strange beasts... 19:03:39 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:39 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 foom: send to gdb? that doesn't do anything. 19:04:34 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-161-200.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:36 hefner: er, send to program. 19:04:57 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@81.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:08 hefner: I'm pretty sure the issue is that the c-c is being caught by a different process than the one gdb is watching. 19:05:18 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:28 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-168-120.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:05:47 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 19:05:48 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [~root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:05:56 -!- adlai_ [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:24 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@94.25.173.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:27 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:42 -!- Guest97667 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:22 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:34 -!- nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:01 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:55 tychoish [~tychoish@c-68-32-182-67.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:06 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:09:35 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-161-200.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:36 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-25-143.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:43 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 19:10:03 nyef: you mentioned CLIM2 "brokeness". What do you think about slowly abstracting out various nice stuff from McCLIM and then making a new toolkit out of that? :D 19:10:29 -!- gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:47 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 19:10:56 p_l: I'm not a fan of McCLIM either. 19:11:25 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@c-68-32-182-67.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:44 nyef: yeah, but it's a chunk of "mostly working" code. 19:12:12 KatrinaTheLamia [~root13@69.164.215.87] has joined #lisp 19:12:18 tychoish [~tychoish@97.107.134.101] has joined #lisp 19:12:57 nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #lisp 19:13:05 fusss [~kumi@97.107.133.187] has joined #lisp 19:13:07 personally, I'm interested in taking out listener, command system and presentations out of CLIM, with "stream"-based UI relegated as one of the widgets (let's call it document-pane ?) 19:13:07 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:36 I was looking more towards having such a system implemented on top of platform-specific APIs 19:13:41 adlai_ [~adlai@97.107.133.187] has joined #lisp 19:13:45 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-25-143.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:36 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-19-23-20.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:43 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:34 Well, that's the thing, presentations and streams are actually -useful-. 19:16:07 nyef: yes, I'd probably just create "normal" widgets and stream ones 19:16:43 Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has joined #lisp 19:16:44 I often would simply love to be able to build a basic, form-based GUI. 19:17:23 I think you can, even with McCLIM. 19:18:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslhf065.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 19:18:59 -!- mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:35 The other thing I don't like about McCLIM, though, is the license, but that's a sufficiently touchy subject that we should probably do no more than agree to disagree about it. 19:19:37 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:20:12 tnkrm [~user@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:19 haha 19:21:39 p_l: stream-based UI *is* one of the widgets, just there happens to be a lot of crap built on top of it. most of the gagdet aren't built on stream panes. 19:21:47 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 19:23:23 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-104-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:34 hefner: well, I got a little sidetracked while reading help 19:25:36 My current position is that the lower layers of the CLIM spec are junk, and the upper layers are a mix of junk and merely badly presented. 19:26:09 the lower layers are definitely better than the upper layers 19:26:39 dabr [~dabr@231-149.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:26:40 past a certain point it feels more like someone's unproven thought experiment in how a UI might work 19:27:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 19:27:45 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:43 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:45 -!- Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:48 That's the problem, though: Anything prior to part V of the spec is massively problematic. 19:29:00 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:35 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:30:21 *p_l* goes back to the old evil idea of using QtWebKit for GUI (I think drewc did something related?) 19:30:58 *hefner* is ashamed to say that despite his CLIM experienced he managed to underengineer his current UI substrate in ways that are starting to bite him 19:31:37 oh, that's cute, you can transport the -ed suffix from one part of that sentence to another and fix the grammar. 19:32:06 -!- Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has quit [] 19:32:42 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:33:30 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:35:10 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 19:35:10 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 19:36:56 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-53-151.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:37:18 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:02 Heh. This isn't an ECL bug after all. I feel very silly, but I'm glad to have gotten some debugging practice. :) 19:39:15 what was it? 19:40:16 I, uh, was calling a function that threw from outside the place where the catch was established (which explains why switching to conditions fixed it, too). 19:41:20 no error? 19:41:28 yeah 19:41:42 I organize UI elements in a stack of layers, and if one in the middle terminates and pops all the ones above it, I realized the other day I needed a nonlocal exit to stop their run methods from continuing (since I've possibly freed graphics associated with those layers at that point). 19:42:46 so I wrapped the gadget-run calls with said CATCH, but neglected to consider that key press/release methods can also unwind the gadget stack. 19:43:02 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 is there anything in the ANSI spec regarding a foreign function interface? 19:43:41 poet: no. 19:43:52 tcr: had I even read the backtrace, I would've realized this immediately. :) 19:43:54 hefner: ok, thanks 19:44:56 I've got no luck with my bug though... dunno if it's just some fragileness in my test case, or an actual bug in SBCL 19:45:22 I think I've found two another sort-of bugs though while thinking through it :-) 19:47:59 -!- p8m_ is now known as p8m 19:51:08 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 19:54:45 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 19:55:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:07 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:11 -!- dabr [~dabr@231-149.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:00:35 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 20:01:46 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:03:06 _rata_ [~c8594549@gateway/web/freenode/x-phpjajkyiktliiho] has joined #lisp 20:08:31 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:00 lopex 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joined #lisp 20:55:30 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:27 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:58:58 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:16 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:01:52 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:01:54 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:18 dthole [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755466.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:48 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:48 -!- dthole [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:49 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:06 are there any predefined function to compute isfinite() and isnan()? 21:11:44 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:12:26 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has joined #lisp 21:13:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:13:53 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 21:13:54 PuffTheMagic: Not in the standard, but possibly on a per-implementation basis. 21:14:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 21:14:13 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:21 thanks 21:16:06 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:00 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:48 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:57 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:22:18 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:34 francogrex [~user@91.180.208.121] has joined #lisp 21:27:09 Hi, trying slime for the 1st time (windows); I used this to set up: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/installing-sbcl-emacs-and-slime-on-windows-xp/ 21:27:43 but what I get is this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97102 21:27:51 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:15 I expected something else. could i be doing something incomplete? 21:28:39 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Quit: tritchey_] 21:29:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:40 <_3b`> francogrex: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 21:32:50 _3b`: in .emacs ? 21:32:50 pragma_ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:50 whtflks [ll@static-213-115-176-142.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:50 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest86645 21:32:50 <_3b`> francogrex: yes, replace (slime-setup) with that 21:33:20 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 21:33:55 _3b`: ah ok, now it's better 21:34:37 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.168.246.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:35:32 oh that's indeed beautiful 21:35:46 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad86 21:37:22 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:40 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:37:47 billstclai [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:45 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:19 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:57 _3b`: before when I split emacs into 2 windows using Cx-2, the upper would be my inferior lisp and the lower I would open a file.lisp, then at the end of an expression in the file.lisp I would use Cx-Ce and that would evaluate it in the inferior lisp 21:43:08 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:43:43 now with slime if i do that it is evaluating it "at the bottom" if you know what I mean 21:43:44 -!- sliq [~sliq@208.138.34.69] has quit [Quit: sliq] 21:44:25 -!- whtflks [ll@static-213-115-176-142.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:28 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:45:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:46:16 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 21:47:00 -!- hacim [~micah@debian/developer/micah] has left #lisp 21:47:07 *_3b`* prefers output to the minibuffer like that, hardly ever use the repl directly 21:47:26 <_3b`> not sure if there is some way to send output to the repl 21:48:55 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:48:57 francogrex: not sure if this will satisfy, but C-c C-k compiles the file and then if you C-c C-z you will be placed in the REPL to run the function you want... 21:49:59 lnostdal [~6dbd4e2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ftzwoixzclfqwikx] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 <_3b`> hmm, C-c C-p looks fun, pprints the output to a new buffer 21:51:08 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:47 *_3b`* should read slime bindings more often 21:51:53 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:34 _3b`: that is interesting... 21:56:01 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:08 -!- lnostdal [~6dbd4e2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ftzwoixzclfqwikx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:58 there's also C-c C-y, it's like C-c C-z but also insert a function call for a function definition at point 22:05:11 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-18-17-28.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-19-23-20.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:10 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:11:58 -!- francogrex [~user@91.180.208.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:30 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:41 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:53 ergerg [~ergerg@74.115.0.25] has joined #lisp 22:18:17 -!- _rata_ [~c8594549@gateway/web/freenode/x-phpjajkyiktliiho] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:19:23 -!- ergerg [~ergerg@74.115.0.25] has quit [K-Lined] 22:20:46 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:34 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 22:21:53 maden [~maden@dsl-158-243.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 22:22:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25:24 Hmm, it'd be nice if macros/functions could portably access current optimisation settings. 22:27:01 jmbr_ [~jmbr@127.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:27:01 hefner, is your UI substrate opensource? 22:27:51 Everyone has one's own UI substrate, sigh. 22:28:37 i have my own as well, but I'm ashamed of it, so.. 22:28:49 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.129.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:10 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@171.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:07 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:33:14 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 22:36:20 code13 [~code13@r6y42.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:38:32 Newbie here, making something to school and i need to execute a line but dont return it straight away, im using set! and then some ifs but its really lame and i believe something cleaner must exist 22:39:39 #scheme for all your cleanliness issues 22:40:22 ?? 22:40:32 try it in more noob-talk 22:40:53 ok. you appear to be using Scheme. a better channel for discussing Scheme code is #scheme 22:40:54 more words for less wise folk like me 22:41:04 oh ok 22:41:09 thx 22:41:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:32 -!- code13 [~code13@r6y42.net.upc.cz] has left #lisp 22:41:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:43:26 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA826B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:40 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:47:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:28 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 22:50:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:16 -!- benny [~benny@i577A85E0.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:52:56 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:54:44 sb-concurrency, cool! 22:55:16 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:17 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:55:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:56:23 is there any nice lisp-specific RPC protocol to use out there? 22:56:38 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:56:43 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:50 p_l: nothing more sophisticated than print/read/eval, I don't think. 22:57:04 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:57:07 I have some sexp-server stuff using cl-store 22:57:56 (and iolib, and some code on top of iolib) 22:58:18 hello 22:58:20 hi adeht 22:58:26 hey fe[nl]ix :) 22:59:25 p_l: but thinking about it.. swank-rpc? 22:59:48 p_l: and I have two funky half-assed closure serialisation thing. 23:05:44 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:20 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:12:51 tnkrm [~user@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:13:13 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:13:18 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:42 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:44 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:14:16 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:18 adeht: I was thinking of something that avoided actual eval/compile 23:15:26 but which would be simpler than XML-RPC 23:15:50 and which could be READable (with disabled reader-evaluation, of course) 23:17:08 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:26 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:17:39 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:43 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.210] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:18:08 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:18 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:18:24 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:36 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:18:44 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 as for swank... did someone already stumbled upon reusing parts of SLIME/SWANK to make a normal (G)UI for a non-developement related app? 23:20:26 p_l: well I guess something like sexp-server + semantics for the objects sent should work 23:20:59 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:10 adeht: I had some kind of working draft somewhere but I think I lost it (I lost access to >500GB of data lately, so losing a small text file is nothing...) 23:21:41 ouch 23:21:41 -!- rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:54 ... CommonJS? 23:22:49 adeht: anyway, my plan was on making it Sexpr-based, but general enough so that I could use it as lightweight XML-RPC replacement even in C 23:23:10 (with much of the agenda being actually integration between Lisp and other runtimes) 23:24:04 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:24:16 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:25:14 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:24 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:25:29 well rpc has its flaws, and so does google's protobufs, but perhaps protobufs + their rpc example should fit your plan? 23:26:22 adeht: Maybe. I'm thinking of slightly mangled RPC anyway (I wanted to stress that RPC is not like a local call at all) 23:27:24 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:26 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:37 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:29:41 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.121] has joined #lisp 23:31:23 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:18 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:22 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:33:29 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:34:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-132.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:51 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:58 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:35:34 p_l: also I used s-xml-rpc some years ago.. maybe that's what you actually had in mind? 23:36:18 adeht: nope, I had a protocol that was different from XML-RPC (for example, with possibility of multiple calls or sequenced calls in one request) 23:37:25 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:09 it would also be interesting if it supported restarts ;) 23:39:03 but that may be a hard problem 23:39:17 adeht: restarts maybe not, but some form of transactions? why not... 23:39:54 the idea for multiple calls is kinda from IMAP, which allows for multiple different requests to be flying at the same time on the wire 23:43:11 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:43:20 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:44:06 http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/wiki/ThirdPartyAddOns#RPC_Implementations <- I know ICE at least has batch invocation 23:45:18 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:47:42 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:48 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:49:12 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:51:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:56 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:06 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:53:15 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:54:24 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:54:31 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:55:17 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:43 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:57 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.189] has joined #lisp 23:57:47 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 23:58:21 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-156-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp