00:01:28 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:01:33 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:04:00 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:39 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:36 -!- porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:43 aCiD2 [~acid2@ks36383.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:07 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 00:11:41 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:14:48 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:45 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:23:56 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:25:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:05 PurplePanda [~pyro@CPE-124-190-112-220.nxwn1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:29:57 ikki [~ikki@189.247.5.38] has joined #lisp 00:35:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:36:15 -!- PurplePanda is now known as PurplePanda|AFK 00:38:03 -!- PurplePanda|AFK is now known as PurplePanda 00:42:25 In CL, is FULL_STOP (.) denoted by #\. or is it something else? 00:43:05 TDT: Depends. Is that an ASCII codepoint? 00:43:07 actually nm, (char-name) correctly identifies it 00:44:04 That's a good quetsion, with this particulr file (string-trim '(#\.) string) isn't trimming it correctly, I should try to find out if it's encoding it oddly or not. The file is in utf-8 00:45:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-11-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:45:41 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:45:50 TDT: you _are_ trying to remove it from the ends, right? string-trim won't remove it from the middle. 00:45:55 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:58 ahhh ok, then that explains what is going wrong - yes, I'm trying to remove from the middle. I can use remove and substitute instead 00:47:17 copied from old work string-trim and didn't think, thanks for catching that 00:47:19 clhs remove 00:47:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 00:47:22 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-53-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:41 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:48:10 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:45 yeah, that's what I defaulted to using 00:49:17 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 00:49:37 Parsing this email log turned into way larger of a lisp project than I anticipated so far...I think I'm close to just writing a library so I don't have to write similar text-cleaning functionality. 00:49:48 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:50:17 ... Some part of me is asking, "why don't you just use cl-ppcre?" 00:51:01 nyef: it might be overkill. 00:51:11 maybe 00:51:16 It is a bit, I am using it for parts of this already 00:51:31 There is no "overkill". There is only "open fire" and "reload". 00:51:56 On the actual chunking of the individual emails from the larger blob, cl-ppcre is being used. For one-off replacements, I'm keeping away from using cl-ppcre for speed reasons. 00:52:14 there's also firing a grenade launcher at point-blank against someone with no arms or legs. 00:52:21 TDT: speed?! 00:52:50 Xach: Clearly, TDT doesn't want it to be too fast. 00:52:52 TDT: i can sympathize for something benchmarked, but cl-ppcre is likely to be pretty fast. 00:53:13 Would it be just as fast as substitute or remove? 00:53:22 Or done this week, for that matter. 00:54:09 TDT: hard to say. i wouldn't avoid cl-ppcre solely because it might be slower. i'd avoid it if it was demonstrably slower or less clear, etc. 00:54:17 sometimes it's a fast, easy way for some one-off work. 00:54:49 *Xach* didn't end up using it for the cll archive, but mostly because there wasn't a need 00:54:53 Xach: REMOVE is faster for simple removals on SBCL, at least. 00:54:53 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:56 nyef: hah, I'm not doing *that* much cleaning of the data, it's tab, space, and dots at this point. The project I'm doing is taking a 35meg archive file that will split out into indivdiual emails into a nested folder structure which will be indexed by DevonThink. Right now i"m just making the subject more intutitive so in DT it shows up correctly. I'll apply the same project to that of MailDir on a cron job soon. 00:54:58 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 00:55:34 *Xach* was working with a 700MB archive to pull out ~25MB of articles 00:55:52 at least (regex-replace-all "\\." "foo.bar.baz" "") vs (remove #\. "foo.bar.baz") 00:56:48 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:56:49 Yeah, I actually plan on doing the same thing as you Xach, at least when I get done with the email part. I have way too many points of documentation now, so I'm trying to generate and aggregate stuff into a central source (DevonThink) so I can search in one spot instead of 4-5. I wasted about 3 hours searching for random stuff on 3 instances in the past week..I'm a bit annoyed about that :) 00:56:52 sykopomp: not as useful when you want to remove/substitute with more complex patterns than single characters. 00:57:17 -!- leifw [~user@ool-45721672.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:57:21 pkhuong: of course, but I think the question was whether to use remove/substitute for simple cases, or to always use cl-ppcre. 00:57:55 if you're doing something more complex than getting rid of dots, the answer is a given, imo 00:58:04 *TDT* agrees with both pkhuong and sykopomp on this, for this particular substitution it was one character only needing to be substituted. 00:58:22 sykopomp: "bar" -> "quux" is still simple to me (TRT would probably be to use another data structure than vectors of chars) 00:58:26 (which is the dot, I didn't want to confuse OSX too bad with multiple extensions) 00:58:59 TDT: multiple extensions on OS X wfm. 00:59:09 TDT: since when does OSX have problems with .tar.gz?... 00:59:25 considering the damn thing is bonafide UNIX. 00:59:34 Well, it doesn't, but I'm willing to bet that DevonThink will freak out...but I'm not sure right off. 00:59:42 sykopomp: so is windows... 01:00:07 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:18 konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 01:00:18 TDT: so, how does your substitution scheme work, and how does it avoid creating name collisions? 01:01:18 pkhuong: Right now the files are being named as: [MD5-0,2]/[subject_without_spaces]-[MD5].txt, at least that's what I"m trying right now. The names I hope won't collide, and if it's the same email I"m not too worried about it. 01:01:41 pkhuong: OSX is actually UNIX certified on Intel platforms. Does this also apply to Windows? 01:02:04 sykopomp: with some library, yes, IIUC. 01:02:37 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:37 I had it originally just [md5].txt, being the hex MD5 of the file...but DevonThink would display those as the title, and well..it didn't help at all when knowing what was in the email without clicking. I'm thinking of changing this though, doing some minor recognition to try and categorize them under department, at least then the tags would be more correct within DevonThink..which would help with its classification. 01:03:22 pkhuong: never heard of such a thing, but I'll take your word for it. 01:03:42 either way, I would trust OSX to handle funky multi-extensions better than windows :\ 01:03:45 Services For Unix or something like that, isn't it? 01:04:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:04:16 I thought that was something that actually ran on Unix..downloaded it at one point, but never used it. 01:04:34 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:36 Oh, windows handles multiple extensions Just Fine, or don't you remember all those .txt.exe viruses that try to skate by on the default "don't show extensions" setting? 01:05:03 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:05:11 nyef: yeah. Just Fine. 01:07:38 Xach: How long does your process to go through all that data take, in general? Trying to figure out if mine is way out of bounds. 01:10:27 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:11:07 TDT: hmm, can't remember, sorry. i can't check right off, either. 01:11:28 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 Xach: I have a feeling I'm going to have to optimize this, it's still running :) I blame my virtual machine some too though, arch 64bit seems slow in vmware. 01:20:05 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:20:22 konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 01:21:12 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 I am using xml-emitter and it's good 01:22:01 but i am wondering if there is another generator preferred for use in conjuction with the CXML suite 01:22:21 can't imagine cxml doesn't have something like cl-who or xml-emitter 01:22:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 01:24:04 rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:39 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35:41 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:08 masato [~masato@p2069-ipbf3506hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:42:13 /nick pocket_ 01:42:24 sorry. 01:42:49 -!- masato is now known as pocket_ 01:44:11 -!- pocket_ [~masato@p2069-ipbf3506hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 01:45:59 Spaceghost [libertad@unaffiliated/spaceghost] has joined #lisp 01:46:12 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:46:16 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:23 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:26 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:50:00 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:56:58 -!- kephas [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:52 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-210-15.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:58:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-210-15.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 01:58:57 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:59:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:00:42 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 02:02:02 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:51 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:09:30 cl-utilities and alexanderia (prolly arnesi too) should merge 02:13:28 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-168-34.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 02:14:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:46 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:18:50 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:05 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:34 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:22:39 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:22:51 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:37 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 02:30:45 I wonder. Is there an equivalent of (let (x) (defun frobnitz () x)) in Scheme? 02:31:41 Since in Scheme, define only enriches the current lexical environment, no? 02:32:06 I thought define enriched the global environment? 02:32:31 Good morning! 02:32:43 Hello beach. 02:32:56 sykopomp: (define frobnitz #f) (let ((x '())) (set! frobnitz (lambda () x))) 02:32:59 nyef: it doesn't look like it does. 02:33:21 nyef: syntactic sugar for letrec. 02:33:46 or (define frobnitz (let ...)) 02:34:32 pkhuong: that's a little meh, but I guess it's not all that different. 02:34:47 maybe a little less declarative, but enriching a 'global' environment is ugly too, I guess. 02:35:34 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 02:35:35 sykopomp: (define ... (let ... (lambda () ...))) looks fine to me. 02:35:46 -!- Spaceghost [libertad@unaffiliated/spaceghost] has left #lisp 02:36:10 pkhuong: doesn't extend to my usual usage of the (let ... (defun ...)) pattern, of having several defuns in a 'private' scope. 02:36:12 pkhuong: Can you get multiple definitions out of that, the way we do multiple functions sharing the same closure? 02:36:53 but (define frobnitz #f) ... (set! ..) isn't terribly unreasonable 02:38:00 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-156-239-195.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 02:38:03 I wonder why schemers don't consider define to be a special form. It's the only way to enrich the current lexical environment, isn't it? 02:38:18 so you can't really define define in terms of lambda? 02:38:40 sykopomp: it's pretty much set! or syntactic sugar. 02:39:07 pkhuong: but set! can't enrich the environment, it can only alter it, right? 02:40:15 no idea. This is looking very much like the magic of defvar/defparameter. 02:40:46 you mean DEFUN magic? :) 02:41:17 "symbol-function, now with conses as function names!" 02:41:38 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.86.214] has joined #lisp 02:42:10 sykopomp: fdefinition. 02:43:08 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:43:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.86.214] has left #lisp 02:44:02 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 02:52:01 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:54:58 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:01:26 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:08:27 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-98-188.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:08:39 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:21:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:31:59 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:05 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-44-90.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 03:35:12 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-44-90.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:23 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 03:41:01 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:41:26 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:50 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:49:41 evanrmurphy [~4a6223f3@gateway/web/freenode/x-tvsequpdqccwgdkg] has joined #lisp 03:51:40 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:55 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 03:55:02 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:57:34 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:21 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 04:03:47 vng [~user@123.20.118.133] has joined #lisp 04:03:58 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-149-214.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:35 Good morning! 04:06:37 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:06:39 morning 04:06:54 hello rapacity 04:07:15 maden [~maden@dsl-149-214.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:07:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acqrmxkdtakhxzia] has joined #lisp 04:08:03 what's up :p 04:08:25 clojure is on its way to the lisp uncanny valley 04:12:14 fusss: why do you say that? 04:12:55 BTW, there's a Practical Clojure on the way from Apress. I had nothing to do with it. 04:13:27 gigamonkey: i have been looking at its new "protocols" thing and you can see it reinventing the familiar in an exotic form. 04:14:10 What are protocols reinventing? 04:14:11 gigamonkey: they don't need a "Practical" book, but one on Aesthetics 04:14:50 http://www.objectcommando.com/blog/2010/03/26/clojure-protocols-part-1/ 04:14:51 but aesthetics isn't practical 04:15:36 gigamonkey: look at that article and you will see two macros disguised as a language feature 04:15:55 methods + with-output-to-foo 04:16:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acqrmxkdtakhxzia] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:45 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-msmwubzqtuhusdqj] has joined #lisp 04:17:24 schemers ditched clos but tinyclos ships with them all. resistence is futile. 04:17:50 oop ftl :p 04:17:52 *rapacity* flees 04:17:57 if i need to use CLOS in scheme, i know where to find CL 04:19:48 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:21:21 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:41 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-149-214.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:26:26 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:31:18 vng: Hello. You need to modify the code for the gui to use fewer global variables, in favor of slots in the application frame. You also need to make sure that you initialize data whenever the application starts. As it is now, values of global variables remain when the application is restarted. Also please remove the strange view of a board where the diagonal has a different color from the rest. 04:31:31 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:31:52 vng: There are also some style issues. 04:31:58 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:32:14 beach: yes, I will fixed that 04:32:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:33:06 vng: (list 9 9) can be written '(9 9) 04:33:37 vng: don't put a space before ')'. 04:33:40 beach: ya 04:34:11 vng: Indent your `loop's correctly (one `below' is indented too much). 04:34:21 vng: No, several. 04:34:36 vng: Compare numbers with = or eql, not equal. 04:35:09 beach: yes 04:35:13 vng: keep in mind however, that '(9 9) can't *always* be corretly used to replace (list 9 9) 04:35:25 *gigamonkey* assumes beach is correct in this context. 04:35:42 gigamonkey: (make-array (list 9 9)) 04:35:47 Right. 04:36:28 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:36:30 vng: Implement new-game. For now, reinitialize with the sample board. 04:36:34 Just pointing out that it's an in-this-context thing, not a universally applicable piece of advice. 04:36:46 gigamonkey: Yes, thanks for doing that. 04:37:53 vng: Compare symbols using eq, not equal. Replace (equal NIL ...) [and (eq NIL ...)] by (null ...). Always use the construct that is the most specific one that will do the job. 04:38:26 beach: yes 04:38:26 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:39:27 vng: You can keep the global variables like *board-size* etc, but as default values to use to initialize slot-values in the application frame. You have to imagine Lisp as an operating system, where the user might want to create multiple instances of a game in the same process. 04:39:29 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:00 vng: One day, you'll have to explain to me why you need a duplication slot in the cell. 04:40:09 vng: since I'm here to kibitz, I'd point out that some folks (such as myself) would advocate always using EQL in preference to EQ. 04:40:24 But others would be equally vehement in favor of using EQ if no characters and numbers are involved. 04:40:46 I don't care which, just don't use equal on symbols. 04:40:54 Agreed. 04:41:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.5.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:41:25 vng: You either need to change the names of some functions, or add comments. I can't understand what SEARCH-POS is doing from it's name. 04:42:39 beach: yes, I will add some comments 04:43:26 vng: avoid IFs with no "else" branch. Either put in an explicit '() or NIL (depending if it is a list or a boolean) when the IF is in a context where the value is used, or replace it with WHEN (or UNLESS, if there is a (not ...)). 04:43:29 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:49 vng: It is always preferable to have good names to having comments to explain bad ones. 04:44:38 vng: There is a long-time naming convention in Lisp which uses a "p" at the end of a function to indicate a predicate. This convention is preferable to your (check-...). 04:44:56 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 04:45:35 vng: Avoid using "list" in names such as labels-list. It is enough to use the plural form of the noun. 04:45:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-msmwubzqtuhusdqj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:50 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 04:46:01 same with list-length. 04:46:12 beach: yes 04:46:15 vng: (> x 0) is written (plusp x) 04:46:37 vng: That should keep you busy for a while. 04:47:08 beach: yes, many works to do 04:47:57 beach: thanks for comments. I will fixed that 04:48:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-scmcifmqffznsgjz] has joined #lisp 04:48:15 hmm, cxml's dom-builder is has got to be 1000% faster than the xmls builder 04:48:48 vng: Sure, no problem. Also give some more thought to the next project. 04:49:15 beach: yes 04:50:08 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 04:51:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-scmcifmqffznsgjz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xafvcdpeunjmixiq] has joined #lisp 04:54:26 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ersfpmfuitgbacaa] has joined #lisp 04:54:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xafvcdpeunjmixiq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:44 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:01 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:27 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:35 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 04:59:17 Hmm, my networking applet disappeared from the panel. I wonder what to do to make it appear again. 05:01:16 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 <_3b> nm-applet maybe? 05:02:51 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 05:03:15 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:31 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-19-21-96.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:03:47 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-19-21-96.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:49 There is such a thing, but I expected it to be in the panel. 05:07:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:50 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:08:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:09:53 gaaah! "stp vs dom" returns recreational drugs as matches 05:11:45 beach: I am not sure, but you can try nm-applet & 05:12:42 vng: Thanks, I need to find out how to use it. 05:13:29 beach: :) 05:15:46 OK, I seem to have an nm-applet, but it doesn't show up in the panel. 05:17:21 konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 05:17:29 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:51 beach: right click to the panel, and add to the panel 05:19:06 I can't find it in the list of applications or applets. 05:19:13 from personal experience, network manager-- wicd++ 05:20:40 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:21:47 on ubuntu, the panel icon appears when you start the Network Manager and Network Manager Dispatcher service, i never called the nm-applet by itself 05:22:21 OK, so how do I start those? 05:23:15 i have unninstalled it here, but iirc it was /etc/init.d/NetworkManager start 05:23:27 and likewise for NetworkManagerDispatcher 05:25:42 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 05:26:49 Nah, it was already running, and stopping and starting it again didn't help. 05:31:27 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:14 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:37 beach: try this: press alt+f2 type: nm-applet ,press enter 05:33:45 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:17 vng: Nothing happens when I press alt+f2. Where should I do that? 05:35:06 beach: alt+f2 to run application 05:35:07 vng: OK, I think I managed to do that, but there is still nothing in the panel. 05:36:01 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:59 Oh, well. I don't have time to investigate that right now. 05:40:56 pragma_ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:24 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest9758 05:41:36 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:08 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-204.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:45 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 05:43:38 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:53 kyb3r [~mark@125-238-104-7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:46:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46:23 -!- kyb3r [~mark@125-238-104-7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:34 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:16 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:40 -!- Zephyrus 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timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:48 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.241] has joined #lisp 06:50:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:50:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:50:50 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:57 good moring 06:51:02 morning 06:53:03 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:59:22 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 07:01:05 Hello mvilleneuve 07:03:00 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:03:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 07:06:48 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 07:18:53 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:37 vng: What does "iu ó" mean? 07:20:05 vng: Could it mean just "that" in some context? 07:20:12 beach: that 07:20:20 beach: yes 07:20:48 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:53 Thanks! 07:22:27 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:22:31 beach: :) 07:24:04 PuffTheMagic_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 07:27:44 -!- jroes_ [~jroes@rube.serapio.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:47 jroes [~jroes@rube.serapio.org] has joined #lisp 07:28:27 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:31 maus [~maus@222.253.104.71] has joined #lisp 07:30:44 hello maus 07:30:46 Good afternoon! 07:30:57 hello vng! :) 07:32:24 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 07:32:27 hello maus 07:32:42 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:33:51 hello beach! 07:34:11 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:49 OK, so what does "khin cho" mean? 07:35:06 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:35:36 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:20 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:36:56 beach: make something happened 07:37:41 vng: Could it also mean "so much that"? 07:38:42 beach: yes, it's true in some contexts 07:38:59 Here is the full sentence: Cây go có c im sinh hc là vào cui mùa xuân, lá rng ht, trên cành khng khiu hoa bt u n  i khin cho hoa càng ni bt trên nn tri. 07:39:19 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:56 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:40:17 wvdschel [~wim@vpnk170.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 07:40:31 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:41:07 beach: yes 07:41:11 beach: in this sentence, it has the meaning as vng said. 07:41:12 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:24 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:42:25 OK, so this tree has a biological particularity that at the end of the spring, the flowers fall off. 07:43:01 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:22 beach: exactly 07:43:29 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:36 At the top of the thin branches, deep red flowers start to blossom. 07:44:16 Then what? 07:46:11 beach: "khi?n cho" expresses an "cause-effect". 07:46:49 OK, so what's the cause and what's the effect? 07:47:44 beach: please, wait us a minute! 07:48:05 I think the last few words mean that the flowers are very prominent with the sky as a background. 07:48:38 So something like "causing the flowers to be very prominent..." 07:49:23 beach: so, this makes blossom be highlight in the sky 07:49:37 Thanks! Back to Lisp... :) 07:49:57 beach: yes! :) 07:50:47 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:35 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:00:29 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 08:05:52 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:06:38 Hmm, the data structures of Muchnick remind me of the days of Fortran. Someone needs to rewrite that book with modern data structure, or better, implement a Lisp version of the data structures and algorithms. 08:07:41 *mvilleneuve* really needs to get that book 08:08:28 For instance, the predecessors and successors of a basic block are not basic blocks, but INICES IN A TABLE of basic blocks. The result is that if a basic block is removed, the numbering changes, so the routines to insert/delete basic blocks need to know about the entire table. 08:08:48 *indices 08:10:34 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnk170.ugent.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:11:50 -!- toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:15:47 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:55 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:22:43 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:23:07 Kav [~kavinorum@pool-74-103-119-154.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:14 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:59 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:24:04 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:24:07 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 08:24:16 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:24:58 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 08:25:31 anthonybailey [~baileyant@pool-72-73-66-175.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:33 nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.43] has joined #lisp 08:25:50 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 08:26:17 -!- xristos is now known as Guest29247 08:26:50 hi 08:27:07 -!- Kavinorum [~kavinorum@pool-74-103-119-154.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:27:08 -!- Kav is now known as Kavinorum 08:29:03 hello anthonybailey 08:29:13 hullo 08:29:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:57 anthonybailey: New here? 08:33:38 nikodemus: I'm trying to write a test case for the semaphore thing 08:35:40 the deadline-induced signal-semaphore block? 08:36:38 nope decf vs atomic-decf 08:38:30 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 hm 08:42:10 -!- idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42:40 i just punted. you need to catch two threads both in a very small window in the right order (so that the count is less than it should be), and to open that window in the first place you need to have the other one time out -- and to observe the bug you then need to have multiple waiters on the semaphore afterwards without accidentally losing the off-kilter waitcounter due to recurrence of the bug in the other direction 08:44:03 with-system-mutex is not recursive, right? so you cannot wake up yourself via signal-semaphore in deadline handler comming from wait-on-semaphore? 08:44:03 hm, well, i suppose if you keep stacking wait-on-semahore from many, many threads, and letting them all time out quickly many, many times, you could just after that check that the waitcount is zero 08:44:15 yes 08:44:23 yeah I'm kind of doing that but in a more controled way 08:44:46 being able to signal-semaphore from the deadline handler would make my life easier 08:45:22 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:31 i think we should give up the mutex before signaling the deadline 08:45:50 (and reacquire if we keep waiting) 08:46:16 you can't control that on top of condition variables 08:46:24 i think i can :) 08:46:29 lemme see 08:47:26 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 08:48:35 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:12 hrm that would render my test case useless 08:49:41 nunb [~nundan@122.173.239.106] has joined #lisp 08:50:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:55:09 is there any particular reason that sb-thread is not locked? 08:56:27 the package? it is here 08:57:15 actually -- SB-IMPL should be made the implementation package of all the ones it uses, now that i remember 08:57:45 I can just C-c C-c in target-threads.lisp 08:58:11 nikodemus pasted "something like this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97011 08:58:59 it's because you're in the SB-THREAD package 08:59:30 if you make a file with (in-package :cl) at the top, you can C-c (defun cons (a b) (cons a b)) without package lock complaints 09:00:20 package lock violations occur when you're trying to munge things while *package* is not the home package of the symbol, or one of the implementation packages of the home package of the symbol 09:00:26 *tcr* notices that (not (minusp)) seems to be better compiled than (>= 0 x) 09:00:59 it's probably because sbcl things X could be a float, and needs to account for signed zeroes 09:01:11 thinks, even 09:02:47 erm, I meant (>= x 0) of course 09:03:44 hm, or not 09:03:47 curious 09:04:17 wvdschel [~wim@vpnf061.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 09:04:25 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:44 ah, it's because of NAN! 09:05:08 (not (minusp (/ 0.0 0.0)) => T 09:05:10 Re paste: I think we should file a bug for it and wait for something like handler-unwind to go in. I'll think about it some more later 09:05:48 (>= (/ 0.0 0.0) 0) => NIL 09:06:10 how do I untrap fp? 09:07:00 sb-int:set-floating-point-modes -- and a lucky platform where it works and isn't immediately nerfed by the OS 09:07:06 -!- derrida is now known as derridafk 09:08:47 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10:04 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 09:11:34 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:05 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:12:25 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:13:13 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14:35 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-254-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:15:29 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:16:10 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 09:17:11 nikodemus: Other cvar implementations seem to be using word-sized seq numbers; cannot read the asm in glibc nptl, but in the source checkout there's a DESIGN text file which sketches the implementation 09:21:30 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:22:05 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:26:55 hi 09:27:21 anthonybailey: you already said that. 09:32:11 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:33:01 anthonybailey: then I asked whether you are new here. 09:33:16 I'm trying to write a method with paramter but when I compile 'The lambda-list (MYPARAM) is incompatible with existing methods of ... 09:33:30 has anyone seen this before? what am I doing wrong? 09:33:58 fatblueduck: You might want to do (fmakunbound 'name-of-function) and redo the defgeneric+defmethods later. 09:34:18 beach: do you know why this is happening? 09:34:54 fatblueduck: It means that you are trying to do a defmethod, but there is already a method on that generic function, and it doesn't have a lambda list that is compatible with the one you have in the defmethod. 09:35:51 fatblueduck: This can happen if you first did (say) a (defmethod foo (x y) ...) and then attempted a (defmethod foo (x) ...) 09:35:53 beach: when I rename the method something like never-before-seen-method, the error still occurs... 09:36:05 fatblueduck: You can't rename methods. 09:36:09 beach: ok I will look at my code harder 09:36:24 beach: I change the name, then try compiling again 09:36:43 fatblueduck: Then you still have the old method left (unless you quit the system in the meantime). 09:36:52 fatblueduck: Which is why I suggested fmakunbound. 09:37:23 beach: ah I see thank you 09:37:38 fatblueduck: If you change the name in your defmethod and then compile again, you now simple added this method to a different generic function. It doesn't remove the method from the generic function with the old name. 09:38:39 fatblueduck: No problem. 09:42:46 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:18 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:52:55 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.104.71] has left #lisp 09:53:02 I have an image that is composed of a data-array and I'm able to modify the array with aref... 09:53:11 maus [~maus@222.253.104.71] has joined #lisp 09:53:37 but when I try to access a similar array in an object this doesn't seem to work and I get an error 09:53:42 (setf (aref (pngform *imageobj*) y x 1) 0) 09:54:13 Could you tell us what the message is? 09:54:17 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:54:51 yes... hold on 09:56:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:38 maybe I'm being premature, I'll need to spend more time figuring my problem 10:00:35 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:03:19 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:04:19 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E46DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:27 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:07:16 HG` [~HG@xdslee085.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:25 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.14.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:15:14 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:17:45 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:15 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18:18 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:18:55 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslee085.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 10:23:32 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:25:25 So if we get another greeting from anthonybailey at 27 past the hour, I think we might be dealing with a bot. 10:27:52 I guess not... 10:28:10 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 10:30:14 to affect pixels in an image I am using this... 10:30:18 (setf (aref (data-array (pngform *imageobj*)) y x 1) 0) 10:30:52 is there a way to create a variable that, when modified would affect (data-array (pngform *imageobj*))? 10:31:03 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:24 so that I could shorten these lines? 10:31:33 mega1 [~quassel@53d83a34.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:32:09 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:32:19 fatblueduck: google for "locatives" 10:32:29 Phoodus: ok thanks 10:32:30 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 10:32:40 basically, macros that create setf functions that simulate pointers 10:32:48 the original lisp machines had those directly 10:33:12 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:22 I don't think it will be very fast though. You might want to make a set-pixel macro yourself 10:33:47 depending on how you use it & how flexible you need to be 10:35:05 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:35:17 I'm kind of in a hurry atm and I suppose I'll go back and do that later... 10:35:31 make a macro then 10:36:48 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 10:37:47 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:11 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:38:20 I hate to admit this but the project I'm working on is in Lisp because I wanted to learn lisp... 10:38:44 I have these huge methods that I _know_ would benefit from macros 10:38:45 well, then learn that this is a great place to use a macro to reduce your typing foo :) 10:38:51 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 10:38:52 and I don't have a single macro in here 10:39:38 :) 10:40:34 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnf061.ugent.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 10:40:36 I'm sure the longer I choose to remain ignorant about macros the longer I will continure wasting time typing 10:40:44 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:40:46 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:41:01 HG` [~HG@xdslfm241.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:21 macros are still arguably the defining feature of lisp 10:41:52 (along with multimethods. also, s/lisp/common lisp/) 10:41:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:42:07 I was overwhelmed for awhile because lisp and emacs were foreign and I've read pcl and written a few macros... 10:42:29 but i wanted to keep my learning plate small 10:43:48 macros are just functions that return a list 10:43:56 and whose parameters are not evaluated 10:46:08 Phoodus: multimethods aren't a defining characteristic of lisp. 10:46:14 Phoodus: ok I'm going to write my first non-tuturial macro 10:46:28 ie, with (defmacro foo (bar)...), using (foo a) means bar = the symbol a, instead of claiming that a is some unbound variable 10:46:52 Ralith: macros aren't either 10:47:18 tcr: Ralith: are there any defining features? 10:47:35 whoops sorry didn't mean that last one 10:47:47 whoops 10:47:53 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 10:47:56 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:21 *jdz* thinks that it is not about explicit enumeration of features, but about the combination of them. and there is no _the_ Lisp. 10:48:21 -!- fatblueduck is now known as macroduck 10:48:23 eval'ing source code in cons-based s-expressions basically is the only thing that defines the lisp family 10:48:47 there's just a small handful of operators that Lisp requires 10:49:06 so Scheme and Dylan are not part of that family? 10:49:08 Phoodus: too many implementation details :) 10:49:18 dunno about Clojure 10:50:20 Axius [~hi@92.85.215.93] has joined #lisp 10:50:21 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:20 Phoodus: you have to realize that lisp as a language family is kind of a fuzzy concept. 10:51:29 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:34 I know, hence words like "basically" and "arguable" 10:51:59 yes, those might have been good words to use. 10:52:07 which is why I did (?) 10:52:43 you said "basically" in a context that suggests there are other things which define the language, not that that definition is invalid. 10:53:30 um, ok :) 10:54:20 consider, for comparison, the sentence "This rope is basically the only thing holding me up." 10:54:46 it suggests that there are other things which might be considered to contribute to holding you up, not that the rope isn't necessarily holding you up at all. 10:54:54 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 10:55:49 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:55:53 wow 11:02:12 haha 11:04:24 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:04 G'morning all. 11:05:25 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:11 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:06:45 hello nyef 11:07:02 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 11:08:12 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 11:09:58 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:13:42 -!- Axius [~hi@92.85.215.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:13:44 ... no minion? 11:14:13 -!- seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E46DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:40 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:54 minion: Better now? 11:14:55 you speak nonsense 11:18:18 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:24:54 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ersfpmfuitgbacaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:26:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-afetplwfmyangyyx] has joined #lisp 11:31:20 the only defining feature of lisp is the parentheses! ;) 11:32:36 bytecolor: Tell that to M-expressions. 11:32:42 I found kind of a cool program to evolve in this book. It backs a tractor/trailer up to a dock, starting with center/back of the trailer @ (x,y) with the trailer at a given angle to the dock 11:32:45 and clojure's syntax. 11:33:09 nyef: ok, I'll admit I don't know anything about M-expressions 11:33:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:34:26 bytecolor: what? you have not read J. McCarthy's paper? 11:34:44 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:34:48 who is J. McCarthy? 11:34:51 ahahah j/k 11:35:33 http://lemonodor.com/images/mccarthy-youre-doing-it-wrong-s.jpg 11:35:35 hrm, I dont think I've read _any_ of the ancient texts 11:35:49 heh 11:37:12 I'll read them later when I have obtained the status of Smug Lisp Weeny ;) 11:38:30 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:39:00 *weenie! 11:39:13 definitely the slowest program in the book thus far, lots of cos sin and atan 11:39:24 and you cannot get that status without reading the paper :) 11:39:43 jdz: I have a ways to go as you have surmised... 11:42:02 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:43:50 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:44:02 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:46:21 Phoodus: that would make a nice t-shirt, I could wear it smugly as only 1 out of every 1e6 people would know what the hell it ment 11:48:50 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:49 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:59 makes you precious, eh? 11:51:17 no, just smug 11:53:21 good lord, 1/2 hr for two generations, 49 to go 11:55:20 Now, don't you wish you had an Intelligent Design program instead of an Evolution program? 11:55:32 ahaha 11:56:50 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 hrm, how old is the universe? and ID says it's what 6k years? So if I were running an ID program it would have been done looooong ago ;) 11:58:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58:43 Well, it's more that you have something that's clearly a simple math problem. 11:59:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-afetplwfmyangyyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:45 nod, this one isn't so simple, 8 fitness cases * 3000 steps * 1000 individuals * 51 generation. But it's no where near linear as the progams change shape/depth as they evolve 12:03:23 Still seems a bit scatter-shot. 12:04:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:06:27 hah hooray for writing tests even for something appearing trivial! Just found a bug in mailboxes :-) 12:06:59 minion: where were you? 12:07:00 what if i had been 12:07:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:27 smug lisp bot ;) 12:08:04 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-194-133.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:08:25 vng: A known issue with minion et alia is that they don't manage their IRC server connections well, to the point of not even knowing when they're disconnected, let alone automatically reconnecting. 12:09:41 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 12:10:01 With the recent spate of netsplits that freenode has been having, and the fact that the rest of the system appears mostly stable, I'm expecting that coming up with some sort of a fix, even if it's making manually reconnecting the bots easier, will be a priority. 12:11:03 good bye 12:14:49 see yaaa 12:17:25 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:18:51 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 question: is it possible to interrupt a running program, change the body of a fn, then restart? Or does that come with a large 'that depends on ...'? 12:22:14 <_3b> probably, but it won't affect currently running functions 12:23:18 hrm, the system calls a fn to see if it should quit. I forget to add another needed predicate, so now it will run all the way through. 12:23:19 Hell, interrupt? In some systems, you can redefine a function from one thread and have it immediately take effect in another, provided that it's not currently "active" in the other thread. 12:24:10 nod, this fn gets called after testing the fitness of a given progam 12:24:32 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:25:10 bytecolor: if it is not in the backtrace when you interrupt your program, you can redefine it (at least i would expect that to work) 12:25:31 ("it" being the function you want to redefine) 12:25:47 Heck, if the function -returns-, then the next time it gets invoked it should pick up the new definition. 12:26:08 it does return 12:26:27 hrm, so once in the backtrace, how would I re-evaluate the fn? 12:26:30 <_3b> depending on what the function does, you might ne able to add (or use implementation supplied) restrts to allow retrying it with new definition 12:27:02 <_3b> (they have to be added before you call the function, of course) 12:29:01 nyef: does the GC trace the currently executing function? 12:29:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dottymlrluqbiafu] has joined #lisp 12:29:20 bytecolor: you just define the function as you usually do 12:29:50 jdz: First you need to get an ordinary evaluator prompt from SLIME. 12:30:25 well, I stopped the run, edited the fn, now I would ususally C-M-x 12:30:35 to eval the fn 12:30:56 beach: why? 12:32:03 restarted 12:32:09 we'll see! 12:33:05 beach: It's referred on the stack, which would pin it, surely? 12:34:11 hrm, I've declared an ignore in the fn ... to ignore the var I need. Wonder how that will pan out if I remove it. 12:34:38 nyef: function redefinition in threads would probably require ensure cache flush for all cpus... 12:36:50 That's what sanctify-for-execution is for, surely? 12:37:22 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:26 -!- p_l_ is now known as p_l 12:38:44 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:45 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:40:21 wvdschel [~wim@zeus.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 12:43:24 bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #lisp 12:43:35 maden [~maden@dsl-151-201.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-11-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:56 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-80-240.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:16 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-45-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:47:51 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-22-41.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:47 -!- anthonybailey [~baileyant@pool-72-73-66-175.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #lisp 12:53:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dottymlrluqbiafu] has left #lisp 12:54:00 stassats: here? 12:57:19 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 13:00:23 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:00:45 tltstc` [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:45 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:00:51 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 13:03:00 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:03:47 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 13:04:59 nyef: OK. 13:05:31 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #lisp 13:05:33 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 13:06:04 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:06:23 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:15:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:00 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.23] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 the copyright on this book is '92, so it must have taken literally days to execute some of the problems 13:18:23 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 13:18:35 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:57 and what kind of lisp system would an average Joe have had in '92, DOS based? MacLisp maybe? 13:20:33 oh, maclisp predates the mac by a day or two eh? heh 13:20:39 bytecolor: An average joe in industry or the academy? or a hobbyist? 13:20:56 oh just a hobbyist 13:21:14 I had a lisp system for the Apple ][. Wasn't common lisp tho 13:21:19 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 13:21:45 dlowe: oh? that's cool 13:21:46 '92? Well, LOGO is a Lisp, isn't it? 13:21:49 <_3b> star sapphire cl maybe 13:21:50 http://www.flownet.com/ron/plisp.html 13:22:16 bytecolor: MCL seems likely too. 13:22:38 my first experience with lisp was with pclisp, which fit on a single floppy 13:22:49 I'm afraid I didn't "get it" at the time and never really messed with it 13:23:14 Logo and Scheme, here. 13:23:55 *p_l* got a book that described some Scheme on microcomputers, I think it was TI Scheme or something like that 13:24:00 sliq [~sliq@208.138.34.69] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 R2RS, even 13:36:37 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:53 does anyone know what ecls does when it is first started.... why does it read from urandom and what does it do right after it reads from urandom? 13:37:40 I imagine it's seeding its PRNG 13:37:53 Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 well on my arm build of ecl right after urandom is opened there is an ioctl that fails cause of an illegal argument then ecl crashes 13:39:07 so if its the seed for the rnadom number gen i probably cant disabled that and try proceeding 13:40:28 tcr, nikodemus: The function SB-THREAD::ATOMIC-INCF is undefined. in SB-THREAD:WAIT-ON-SEMAPHORE 13:40:57 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:41:34 with darcs i could just unpull this patch... in the git i have rebased patches on the head. i still don't get it why people like git... 13:41:59 *attila_lendvai* goes googling 13:42:49 attila_lendvai: add "SB!EXT" to :use in package-data-list.lisp-expr 13:43:02 to :use for "SB!THREAD" 13:43:32 could you do that, compile&run tests? 13:44:05 compile is running, i'll report back 13:49:40 tcr, it's nikodemus' last commit, right? 13:50:40 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 right 13:51:01 I guess he didn't run the tests :-) 13:52:03 that ":-)" should read "8-3" or some other similarly scary emoticon 13:52:05 well, sbcl should build without warnings... 13:52:25 then it would have shown up 13:53:04 all our lib builds without warnings and compilation notes are muffled... it's very much worth the effort 13:53:05 warnings turn to build failure -- style-warnings not 13:53:16 -!- wvdschel is now known as SPELLINGRAGE 13:53:36 tcr, and an undefined function is a style warning... 13:53:45 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:20 there are lot of undefined function style-warnings, I guess some are even intrinsic because you can't linearize some of the dep graph 13:55:01 well, at some point we used to have a ton of warnings... you can get rid of them, but it does take effort 13:55:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:55:33 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 13:56:08 I agree I find sbcl's build / test infrastructure to suck^Wbe somewhat lacking :-) 13:56:26 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:57:06 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk092248065239.a1.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: away!away!] 13:58:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:00 are the recent git/cvs sbcl versions known to compile on linux x86-64? If so, I'm not seeing the same result... 13:59:18 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:59:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:59:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:59:46 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:22 qzg [~qzg@64.19.13.162.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:24 -!- qzg [~qzg@64.19.13.162.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:15 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:29 -!- SPELLINGRAGE is now known as wvdschel 14:05:53 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:10:31 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 14:10:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:11:08 afternoon 14:11:13 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk092248065239.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:13 Krystof: aroundp 14:11:29 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.148.40] has joined #lisp 14:11:53 for the interested, it's git rebase -i HEAD~[some integer] and delete the unneded patches form the editor that comes up 14:12:12 nikodemus, your last commit doesn't work. run the tests... 14:12:22 huh 14:12:26 i thought i did 14:12:30 The function SB-THREAD::ATOMIC-INCF is undefined. in SB-THREAD:WAIT-ON-SEMAPHORE 14:12:41 crap 14:12:48 well, that's an easy one to fix 14:12:51 if you fix the package issue, then you'll have a type problem 14:13:06 atomic incf needs unsigned byte 64 14:13:14 i wonder what tree i did the commit from? 14:13:41 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 14:14:18 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:14:22 (i'm pretty sure i ran into both and fixed them in _some_ tree...) 14:17:02 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfm241.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:46 minion: memo for Krystof: did you set the permissions in the release directory? i can't seem to write there... 14:17:46 Remembered. I'll tell Krystof when he/she/it next speaks. 14:18:25 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:10 benny [~benny@i577A8211.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:19 nikodemus: found a bug in sb-mailbox :-) make-mailbox didn't construct the semaphore with an initial count in case of :initial-contents 14:20:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.148.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:21:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nnsqyudbzljzbfxd] has joined #lisp 14:23:07 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:25:48 excellent :) 14:26:33 only good bug is a know bug 14:26:33 known, even 14:27:16 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:47 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:30:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111086144.a1.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:31:43 -!- wvdschel [~wim@zeus.ugent.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 14:32:13 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 14:32:55 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:34:21 *beach* has been thinking about internationalizing Lisp lately. 14:34:23 "The only good bug is a -fixed- bug?" 14:35:14 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 14:37:33 is setting a list value to nil adequate for clearing a list? 14:38:26 Yes, for values of "yes" equal to "you don't clear a list, you clear a variable that holds a list". 14:38:30 macroduck: What is "clearing" a list. And how do set a value? 14:38:30 14:38:34 macroduck: there's confusion in "setting a list value" 14:38:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:21 I'm sorry I'll try to be more clear... 14:39:28 I have a list with values in it 14:39:46 nope :-) 14:39:54 I want to use the list, but I want it to be empty 14:40:14 Despite its name origin, there's no list datatype in Lisp :-) 14:40:14 macroduck: If the list is empty, then it has no "values in it". 14:40:48 I have a list containing a huge number of coordinates 14:40:50 clhs list 14:40:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 14:40:55 macroduck: Then it is not empty. 14:41:04 I want the coordinates to go away 14:41:17 so that I can put new/different coordinates inside it 14:41:22 macroduck: What does it mean for a coordinate to "go away"? 14:41:37 tcr: So, it turns out that CLHS says that, yes, there -is- a list datatype, and that it is comprised of CONSes and NULLs. 14:41:49 beach: I'm being vague on purpose because I do not know the specific terminology here... 14:42:22 macroduck: If you have a list and you want to replace the elements in it, it is usually easier to throw away the list and build a new one. 14:42:26 I do not want the values to exist anywhere in the lisp environment 14:42:28 macroduck: This is the point in our program where we ask you what you're really trying to accomplish. 14:42:37 I don't want them stored anywhere taking up memory 14:42:48 macroduck: You cannot know when the garbage collector will run. 14:42:50 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 14:42:55 So, lose all references to them and the garbage collector will deal with it later... probably. 14:43:53 nyef: s/datatype/ADT/ 14:43:53 I want to animate a sine-wave. I have a list containing coordinates representing the sine-wave. 14:44:20 and what datatype are they? 14:44:23 each image is a different (slightly) different sine-wave 14:44:36 they are lists (list x y) 14:44:40 ... Wait, it's a sine-wave. Why aren't you recalculating the coordinates on the fly? 14:44:58 macroduck: macroduck I meant the coordinates. 14:45:07 beach: they are numbers 14:45:11 macroduck: integers, floating point? 14:45:16 integers 14:45:19 sorry... 14:45:21 how big? 14:45:46 none of them exceed 1920 14:45:52 nikodemus, is the fix for the atomic-incf bug something big? will it be pushed soonish? (if not i need to head on with some git woodoo to obliterate it from my branch with rebased patches) 14:46:04 macroduck: Non-negative integers, or is there a lower bound? 14:46:11 macroduck: Then you are probably wasting huge amounts of space just by using a list structure, as opposed to a vector. 14:46:21 beach: really? 14:46:31 I didn't know that 14:46:40 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 attila_lendvai: If you need to build HEAD, just s/atomic-// 14:46:44 macroduck: A list cell has two pointers in it. 14:46:56 hrm, goo dpoint 14:46:56 nyef: there are no negative coordinates but I would like that possibility available 14:46:59 macroduck: How much room did you think it used up? 14:46:59 attila_lendvai: it's not likely to bite you 14:47:23 Even the vector sounds like a waste of space: It's a -sine wave-. You can calculate any Y coordinate given the X coordinate and the scaling/rotation factors anyway. 14:47:27 beach: I didn't know but it generates the sinewave very quickly 14:47:40 tcr, i haven't seen the obvious... it's just for my own machine to go on working, i don't care about correctness here... thanks! 14:47:58 nyeft: it is more involved than that 14:48:04 macroduck: Well your question indicated that you were worrie about memory consumption. Now it seems you are not. 14:48:06 Okay. 14:48:19 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:38 beach: creating an animation of 5 minutes, 30 frames per second 14:48:46 that would be many many many frames 14:48:55 and many many many sinewave coordinates 14:49:03 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:49:16 how many coordinates per frame? 14:49:37 *nyef* is worried about memory consumption. He has 3.75 gigs of RAM over four systems, and not enough of it is in any one usable place. 14:50:32 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 14:50:44 how do get a quick count of items in a list? 14:50:49 I have the list queued here... 14:50:56 (length list) 14:51:00 length 14:51:09 macroduck: how many coordinates per frame do you have? 14:51:34 713240 14:51:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:05 713240 sets of coordinates 14:52:22 macroduck: and you need the coordinates for all those frames to exist simultaneously? 14:53:03 beach: no. I want clear the coordinates for the frame when I'm done rendering it 14:53:32 then create new coordinates for the next frame, render that frame, clear the coordinates, wash rinse repeat 14:53:54 macroduck: Allocate a vector of size 713240, then just assign to the elements of it after each frame. 14:54:35 macroduck: You probably won't even allocate any memory other than once, for the vector. 14:54:43 beach: as the sine-wave changes the number of coordinates needed changes as well... 14:54:58 make the vector adjustable. 14:55:05 beach: ok 14:56:33 But I agree with nyef; you are probably doing something wrong. The same computation that is used to fill such a vector could probably be done when you need the animation. 14:56:50 http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1181/blackqu.png http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6668/sineevolution.png 14:56:54 What does one frame look like? 14:57:43 macroduck: Do you know about the digital resonator method for incrementally computing sine waves? 14:57:58 beach: no... 14:58:34 macroduck: It requires one multiplication and one addition for each additional sample. Very quick (optimal in fact). 14:58:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:59:03 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 14:59:44 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.241] has quit [Quit: off] 14:59:56 beach: ok I'll probably re-implement the wave. 15:00:49 ... Clearly, I have something new to look up. 15:01:31 "GC_PENDING, but why?" 15:01:32 Krystof, memo from nikodemus: did you set the permissions in the release directory? i can't seem to write there... 15:01:53 I did set permissions 15:01:59 ah, but, I set permissions to the wrong ones 15:02:02 clever 15:02:16 fixing 15:02:36 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 ... More GC_PENDING problems? 15:02:45 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:03:02 well, I don't know. This is from someone in the lab, after running a job for about 5 days 15:03:24 nikodemus: you should now be able to write 15:03:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:03:40 Krystof: recent sbcl? 15:03:53 Oh, wait, the last round of problems was a gc actually marked :in-progress. 15:05:36 threads, foreign code? 15:05:41 it's on lp 15:05:43 wait 15:05:55 Krystof: thanks 15:06:00 attila_lendvai: soon 15:06:26 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:33 mega1: gc :in-progress bit: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/544421 15:06:46 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:56 mega1: attila's Vienna bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/549673 15:07:06 macroduck: While you are at it, use double-precision floating point numbers. They are pretty quick these days. 15:07:20 tcr: yes, I saw this second one 15:07:26 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:41 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 15:07:54 beach: Ok :). 15:08:29 mega1: probably "no, yes, yes" 15:08:51 mega1: If you have ideas what could have gone wrong / what to test, I'd appreciate a comment 15:08:52 I don't have a vast amount of confidence in the user's enthusiasm for debugging this 15:09:39 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 15:10:16 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:10:20 tcr: do you mean the gc inhibit bit or Krystof's new one? 15:11:26 mega1: backtrace cut off actually 15:12:14 I'll check the gc inhibit patch first, that should take me long enough to forget the others. 15:12:22 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:13:39 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 15:15:36 beach: thank you. 15:15:39 -!- macroduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:21:20 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:21:45 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:10 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:24:23 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:31:23 is there some naming convention in the SBCL source or do you just name it the longest possible thing you can think of? :d 15:31:43 who was it in here to whom i spoke about SLIME support for my custom [ ] object brackets? 15:31:56 e.g: profile-encapsulation-lambdas 15:32:12 etate: what would you suggest instead? 15:32:28 p-e-l apparently 15:32:34 "peel" would be the obvious choice 15:32:42 *beach* thinks etate hasn't looked at CLIM. 15:32:49 well, profile-encapsulated-lambdas seems more correct 15:32:55 but still too long 15:33:03 too long for what? 15:33:04 etate: too long for what? 15:33:13 (the extra e helpfully inserted just to make it a word) 15:33:41 for writing, i guess 15:33:56 etate: You are showing your lack of mastery of your tools. 15:34:06 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1] 15:34:18 etate: Use C-c C-i, M-/, or abbrev-mode. 15:34:20 Learn to type fast, use tab completion etc 15:34:25 (or a combination of the above) 15:35:43 well, its hard to fit a code with function-names that long on one line anyway 15:35:45 I wonder if the fastest typists are also the ones that use these tools. I am guessing that there is a positive correlation. 15:36:00 etate: That's a different reason from the one you just mentioned. 15:36:26 beach: often I speak without knowing why 15:36:38 etate: Oh dear! 15:36:47 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.173.239.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:51 beach: oh dear, i am not a machine! 15:37:03 etate: You shall have to get used to being criticized, then. 15:37:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:37:12 (did I spell that right?) 15:37:24 (probably in some version of English) 15:37:37 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:37:49 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:37:58 beach: sure, criticism is okay, but in any case if i always spoke knowing why and the answer to what i speak about, i wouldn't speak at all, and thus learn nothing 15:38:35 etate: I fully agree. But there are different ways of phrasing things. 15:38:39 for example, i'd never heard of abbrev mode or c-c c-i m-/ :) 15:39:00 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 15:39:03 beach: and how would you suggest I correct my phrasing? 15:40:14 etate: I would avoid very definite phrases like "still too long", and use something like "how do you avoid typing all that letters anyway?". 15:40:23 *those 15:40:34 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:09 well the problem isn't so much with the typing of the letters, when I said writing the code, what I had in mind was the aesthetics of being able to actually read code that uses such long function names 15:41:25 etate: Ah, a third reason. 15:41:44 nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 cola-zero [~cola-zero@OBYfb-06p4-207.ppp11.odn.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 and not simply reading the function names themselves, but writing them in such a way that they fit together in an aesthetically pleasing manner 15:42:38 rather than looking like a jumble of words with 23 different levels of indentation 15:42:38 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 *beach* wonders what the longest name in CLIM is. 15:42:50 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 15:43:35 clim d-p-t-c-t 15:43:35 define-presentation-to-command-translator: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/23-7.html#_1233 15:43:43 in fact it is rare that make-instance doesn't bother me to write, and not because i can't write it, but because the indentation almost always looks too verbose or just off 15:44:24 beach: command-line-read-remaining-arguments-for-partial-command 15:44:41 etate: When I remember, I redefine the indentation of make-instance, so that the :initarg+value pairs are indented as the body of a macro. 15:44:55 Xach: That exists? 15:45:31 clim command-line-read-remaining-arguments-for-partial-command 15:45:32 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/27-6.html#_1442 15:45:35 Wow! It does! 15:45:45 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:49 (car (sort (copy-seq (apropos-list "" :clim)) #'> :key (lambda (x) (length (string x))))) 15:46:04 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 stassats: Good catch. I was too tired to think that up. 15:46:27 that looks intimidating to say the least 15:46:33 beach: http://xach.com/tmp/clim.txt 15:46:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:46:58 that's from l1sp.org's index 15:47:08 Nice! 15:47:09 longest function in my image: string-output-stream-ioblock-write-char-without-translation-when-locked-function 15:47:16 that's from CCL 15:47:22 Xach: amazing! 15:47:41 stassats: Absolutely fantastic! 15:48:17 i also like one function in CLIM which has about ten optional parameters and one &key parameter 15:48:21 aren't packages there to partially prevent this kind of mazochism? 15:48:21 vng: Yeah, it makes me laugh! 15:48:45 beach: yeah :) 15:48:48 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:49:15 attila_lendvai: fix committed, thanks for the heads up 15:49:17 vng: Should you be up at this time? :) Oh, wait, the difference is "only" 5 hours now. 15:49:24 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111086144.a1.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:06 beach: yes 15:52:02 beach: I don't know what you mean: Oh, wait, the difference is 15:52:03 "only" 5 hours now. 15:53:02 milanj [~milan@79.101.149.96] has joined #lisp 15:53:17 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:53:22 *attila_lendvai* waits for boinkor to pick up the cvs commit... :/ 15:54:44 vng: Recent clock change? 15:55:12 Alternately, someone in a different time-zone from their usual? 15:55:59 nyef: no, it does not 15:56:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:58:37 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:53 is there a way to just build one specific contrib? 16:04:07 look into sh make-target-contribs.sh and hack a bit 16:04:19 i did by changing for i in contrib/*; do to for i in contrib/contrib; do 16:06:40 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:07:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:08:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nnsqyudbzljzbfxd] has left #lisp 16:08:37 vng: The EU went to daylight-savings time last sunday, a stupid concept that, for good reasons, is unknown in Vietnam, meaning that everybody had to set all their clocks one hour forward. 16:09:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:09:14 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:07 beach: clock doesn't change here 16:10:16 vng: So under normal circumstances, there is a 6 hour difference between France and Vietnam, but starting now, and for more than 6 months, the difference will be only 5 hours. 16:10:19 beach: I know what you mean :) 16:10:34 beach: ya 16:11:19 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-44-90.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:11:22 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:51 vng: I think it is a terrible thing to change the clocks, but some politicians must believe that it is good, so we are stuck with it. 16:13:01 sysfault [exalted@ool-4573800f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:05 -!- sysfault [exalted@ool-4573800f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:31 sysfault [exalted@ool-4573800f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 vng: Did Marie tell you about the internship in Paris with Didier Verna? 16:14:13 beach: yes, she did 16:14:18 vng: And are you planning to apply? 16:14:41 beach: I haven't contacted with Didier Verna yet 16:17:05 vng: I would if I were you. It's a great opportunity. We know him to suggest interesting things, he uses Lisp, so has a hard time finding applicants, you want to use Lisp. It all fits! 16:17:07 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:17:12 -!- sysfault [exalted@ool-4573800f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:51 vng: Plus, there are worse things in life than spending an internship in Paris! :) 16:18:30 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:18:48 beach: yes. It makes me have to think much more about it 16:19:36 vng: I am not sure why you might want to hesitate. Most people who don't live in France think of Paris as the city of their dreams, at least to spend some time in. 16:19:52 vng: Have you been to any foreign country yet? 16:20:13 beach: no, i have not 16:20:55 vng: Paris is a great place then! Safe! Relatively(!) clean! Drinkable tap water! Great restaurants (though you have to look a bit)! 16:21:57 vng: I feel much safer in Paris than (say) in Stockholm. 16:22:12 beach: yeah 16:23:03 Sounds better than Buffalo, NY, at least. 16:23:20 nyef: I'm pretty sure that's the case. 16:23:57 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:42 nyef: It was pretty strange to live in the US where safety was defined to be the number of campus police and emergency phones within a block of reach. 16:24:51 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:57 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-lpehxlkbvxbdyurt] has joined #lisp 16:24:58 nyef: Meaning: it was a necessity! 16:24:59 beach: Bought tickets last night for a trip to Thailand and Vietnam. Interested in your recommendations :) 16:25:43 sellout: Check with vng and maus of course. How long in VN? Places decided already? 16:25:49 sellout: I think Thailand is not safe now 16:26:13 more adventures then 16:26:16 vng: My brother says it's OK. He spends 3 months a year there. 16:26:21 vng: Too late! But we won't be in Bangkok or anything. 16:26:35 vng: Krabi, mostly, probably. 16:26:48 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:26:49 Good evening! 16:26:57 We'll be there for a total of 2.5 weeks, not sure how long in each place. 16:27:00 hello maus! Late for you as well! 16:27:11 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:31 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:45 beach: yes :) My sister have just finished her work on the desktop, it's my turn now :) 16:27:59 sellout: For VN, it depends on what you are looking for. Hue is better for monuments that Ha Noi or HCM. HCM is great for people like me, but avoid the tourist blocks. 16:28:20 maus: You live with your sister? And who else? 16:28:38 beach: We are outdoorsy. Monuments are probably a good bet. 16:28:47 sellout: There will be time for Ha Long Bay (obligatory). 16:28:49 beach: I live with my parents, too. 16:28:56 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-44-90.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:58 maus: I see! 16:29:49 sellout: Then Hanoi, Ha Long Bay, Hue, maybe Sapa (don't know it), maybe Hoi an (don't know it). 16:29:50 sellout: what places are you going to visit in Thailand? 16:30:13 vng: Krabi is all I know for sure  we are rock climbers. 16:30:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:30:46 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:31:12 sellout: Don't listen too much to me then. I am a city guy, and I like to talk to people, understanding what their aspirations and fears are, etc. 16:31:19 beach: internship with lisp? 16:31:26 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:31:32 sellout: interesting! 16:31:33 p_l: With Didier? Yes. 16:32:03 beach: Our fears mainly involve falling long distances ;) 16:32:23 beach: Sapa is a nice place, beautifull landscape 16:32:31 vng: So I hear. 16:32:35 *sellout* is taking notes 16:32:58 sellout: yeah, but you wouldn't believe the fears of Vietnamese people! 16:33:35 beach: They fear... public speaking? 16:33:40 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:33:54 nyef: more like ancestor cult related stuff. 16:34:10 nyef: Why did you suggest that particular fear? 16:34:16 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:34:30 beach: Probably because it's the most common fear. 16:34:41 Most common, and tends to be stronger than the fear of death. 16:34:45 Though it is hard to figure out whether they really believe in that, or whether it has to do with convincing foreigners that they do. 16:34:54 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:34:58 really? 16:35:03 It is for me! 16:35:39 sellout: I find that there is no problem when one knows what one is talking about. Otherwise, yes, big problem! 16:36:11 beach: I can't say my name in front of a group of people  and I'm pretty sure I know it well ;) 16:36:22 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 sellout: Surely, if that was the extent of your talk, you would be able to. No? 16:36:55 maus, vng: you should both apply to Didier. 16:37:00 sellout: Try progressive desensitization? Could you do it in front of five people? Ten? 16:37:22 nyef: It partly has to do with whether you know them or not. 16:37:23 *p_l* unfortunately found out that the internship in Netherlands is not available (booked full) 16:37:31 beach: yes, sir! 16:37:32 beach: Nope  I mean, it's even hard going around a circle with everyone just saying names. If they ask you to tell something about yourself? It's all over. 16:37:36 beach: yes, I will 16:37:47 beach: True. Or if you feel some commonality with them. 16:37:55 beach: Very true  I am better around people I know, but if the group gets big, it's still a problem. 16:38:13 ("Ah, this won't be so bad, they're all lisp programmers of some sort...") 16:38:14 sellout: Sounds like you have a bad case. Works on #lisp though! Go figure!. 16:38:32 But enough about public speaking  I'm going to think about falling off cliffs for a while. 16:38:34 *_3b* has worked up to talking on IRC, need to progress to real people at some point :p 16:38:44 nyef: provided you know what you are talking about. 16:39:02 _3b: Er, we're real! 16:39:08 speak for yourself! 16:39:34 beach: I checked the page about the internship, but it doesn't exactly specify the time span for it... 16:39:36 <_3b> beach: yeah, more obvious in persone though :) 16:39:53 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:05 beach: Yes, that's the entire point of a presentation: You know what you're talking about. 16:40:06 p_l: The one in Paris? I don't know. I suspect it is flexible. 16:41:04 nyef: True, but when I am sollicited to give a speech at a wedding, I can't very well talk about Lisp, Score editing, or Efficient Sound Synthesis. 16:41:28 <_3b> sure you can, good way to avoid needing to give future speeches too :) 16:41:32 I mean, I could, and then I would feel comfortable, but it wouldn't be very appreciated. 16:41:42 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 16:41:44 _3b: Thanks for the hint! :) 16:41:46 -!- derridafk is now known as derrida 16:41:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:42:54 introspecting a bit: I had one fear of public performance which lasted between about age 11 to about 16; and a second from 22 to 23. In both cases, what overcame it was lots and lots of practice 16:44:36 that doesn't make me any good at dealing with social parties, though 16:45:37 that's easy: more alcohol 16:47:01 I have always has a fear of public performance, but I realized that it was only when I don't know what I am talking about. I am still having a problem with a public declaration of the attribution of a PhD, because I have to remember the phrases, but I can come unprepared to a course in algorithms and data structures and have no problem. 16:48:15 I was good at speaking in college, but that's because I thought I was awesome at everything then. 16:48:23 heh! 16:49:39 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 16:49:41 vng, maus: if you are lucky, he will take you both. Either way, you need to spend the next two months perfecting your Lisp programming style. I am sure #lisp will be willing to help out! 16:50:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:20 vng, maus: This might be a good time for you to read the slides by Norvig and Pitman. Do you know about those? 16:50:41 (does minion know about those?) 16:51:43 beach: yes, we will try our best. 16:51:52 beach: we don't 16:52:06 hmm... if it would be possible for doing the internship from July till end of September, I might send as well... 16:52:08 mrarm [mrarm@plox.tor.hu] has joined #lisp 16:52:09 minion: luv-slides? 16:52:10 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``luv-slides''. 16:53:48 Is it from Peter Norvig, Sun Microsystems Labs Inc, 1993? 16:53:55 minion: add "luv-slides" as luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussion good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See norvig.com/luv-slides.ps. 16:53:55 OK, done. 16:54:05 minion: luv-slides 16:54:06 luv-slides: luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussion good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See norvig.com/luv-slides.ps 16:54:58 It would have been better if I had used "discussing" instead of "discussion", but hey! 16:55:11 Guthur [~Michael@host81-156-239-195.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:13 and http:// 16:55:22 Crap! 16:55:23 beach: Feel free to re-add it, then. 16:55:52 minion: add "luv-slides" as luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussing good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See http:/norvig.com/luv-slides.ps. 16:55:52 OK, done. 16:56:03 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:27 minion: Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience! 16:56:27 you're welcome 16:56:43 *beach* likes minion! 16:57:31 maus: Better? 16:57:41 -!- _3b``` is now known as _3b` 16:57:55 beach: yes, thank you so much! 16:58:20 beach: http:/ is incorrect schema 16:58:51 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:54 and the period at the end makes it harder to copy hyperlink 16:59:49 . ? 17:00:17 p_l: OK, I'll let you do it instead. 17:00:45 nyef: that might work better. The software that I had seen capable of noticing hyperlinks in text tend to parse such hyperlinks right 17:00:56 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:01:47 vng, maus: remind me what date you decided to submit the projects? 17:02:06 asdf25 [~jeff@pool-173-79-236-231.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:27 (the ones in my course) 17:02:29 minion: add "luv-slides" as: luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussing good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See . 17:02:29 OK, done. 17:02:35 minion: luv-slides 17:02:36 luv-slides: luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussing good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See 17:02:46 hi, what is the best way to use clisp with vim? 17:02:48 p_l: Thanks! 17:03:00 mrarm: clisp, the implementation? 17:03:10 beach: well, I was the bug submitter ;-) 17:03:31 i don't know, in general, i want to learn fluxus 17:03:42 but first, lisp/swcheme basics 17:04:04 beach: The class want to delay the deadline, because of intensity of the schedule 17:04:31 mrarm: #scheme then, I guess 17:04:35 mrarm: I don't know about fluxus, but CLISP is the name of an implementation of the Common Lisp standard, but people often confuse the two. So my question was whether you wanted that specific implementation or whether you meant Common Lisp. 17:05:04 vng: Someone should send me an email about that then. 17:05:36 mrarm: and if you want Common Lisp itself, I recommend going with Emacs+SLIME unless you are happy to help work on ViM interaction modes (there's Nukthuth and some others, afaik) 17:05:47 well, i don't know, maybe i should install some scheme implementation, i have good book about that 17:05:58 but it's similar, isn't it? 17:06:10 i'm not well oriented 17:06:19 mrarm: Furthermore, the usual recommendation is to abandon the attachment to vim and go Emacs+SLIME as p_l points out. 17:06:38 Though, really, the thing to do if you're a vi fan wanting to use lisp is to make your own editor, calling it "156". 17:06:53 mhm, i understand;) 17:06:58 mrarm: well, #scheme might have more answers for you 17:07:02 mrarm: I am not going to say that Lisp and Scheme are very different languages, because then Zhivago will tell you that they aren't. 17:07:04 beach: yes, we are talking about the day that we have to summit the project 17:07:23 mrarm: Are you just trying to learn CL or is this for a project or what? 17:07:47 i'm just trying to learn scheme/fluxus 17:08:00 beach: *submit 17:08:00 fluxus is something like lisp/scheme for artists 17:08:03 mrarm: Then #lisp is not the right place. 17:08:27 you can transform your visual thinking to code 17:08:29 beach: Maybe, tomorrow, when we come to class, we will have a final dicision. 17:08:37 that looks interesting:) 17:08:38 vng: Sure, I don't care what date you choose, but I want you to tell me what that date is. 17:09:02 ok, if that fluxus is rather scheme, it's wrong channel:) 17:09:06 maus: Sure, no problem. I will have a very busy day tomorrow (daytime here). though. 17:09:09 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:09:47 beach: yes, we will have an email to you. 17:09:54 but friend of mine is a good in lisp (he writes own interpreters etc), but he said, that scheme is very similar 17:09:56 maus: Thanks! 17:10:10 and he have given me scheme coursebook 17:10:15 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 17:10:20 mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has joined #lisp 17:10:22 well, thanks anyway, best regards 17:10:27 mrarm: Zhivago will explain to you that they are very similar. 17:10:30 Anyway, /me thinks dinner is imminent. See you later! 17:11:15 they have parentheses, they must be similar! 17:11:22 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 stassats: True, they also have whitespace and newlines. 17:11:57 No, wait, that makes C and Lisp similar as well. 17:12:24 but C has curly braces 17:12:33 <_3b`> well, they are similar along that axis 17:12:41 :) 17:13:00 i see, that you like irony":P 17:13:09 very nice!:) 17:13:18 is irony similar to lisp in some way? 17:13:22 (: 17:13:23 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: hometime] 17:13:45 <_3b`> mrarm: they both have an i ? 17:14:11 -!- asdf25 [~jeff@pool-173-79-236-231.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:14:29 <_3b`> (something C and scheme completely lack) 17:14:44 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:35 _3b`: The Apple versions don't, though, surely? (iC and iScheme) 17:17:06 -!- sepult` is now known as speult 17:17:11 -!- speult is now known as sepult` 17:17:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:25 nyef: lol 17:17:41 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 17:17:45 Well, Objective-C :D 17:18:04 And I imagine that iMacLisp would be a good implementation language for a text editor... 17:18:46 I'd rather think it would be good to replace FORTRAN77 ;-) 17:18:55 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:15 Something else without an i! 17:19:18 *p_l* notices that this starts to reach levels of "really *internal* joke" xD 17:19:47 editor might be better to support iTECO, but Apple is against it 17:20:48 Unfortunately, the lisp implementation most likely to be found on a mac these days is emacs lisp. 17:21:30 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:32 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 Xach: herep 17:22:26 nyef: I had seen some Lisp-like stuff to be more and more popular, though 17:23:14 like Nu 17:23:30 Heh. And here I was thinking "... javascript?" 17:23:37 And some people claim that Ruby tends to work as an inferior Lisp substrate, and Ruby is really popular on the mac 17:23:43 nyef: :P 17:24:08 (not to mention that MacRuby probably kicks' official interpreters' ass) 17:24:10 Yeah, but can you even -find- an OSX install without emacs? 17:24:34 nyef: Hmmm... I haven't noticed any emacs when I tried OSX last time 17:24:38 unlikely 17:24:43 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:46 p_l: Try it from the terminal. 17:24:57 hmmm 17:24:57 yeah, comes with every osx i've ever used 17:24:59 gigamonkey: hello 17:25:05 pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 17:25:19 heh. No real want to check, too much work getting any OSX working 17:25:23 Hey, Xach. Are you the Zach who invited me to Digsby? 17:25:26 -!- pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has left #lisp 17:25:27 i think it's emacs 22 17:25:48 gigamonkey: no. some Zach invited me to that too. 17:26:09 *Xach* lacks energy to write a scathing reply to that spammer 17:26:12 Weird. 17:26:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:40 does anybody have something more elegant than this (not my code): 17:30:49 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/mon-get-freenode-lisp-logs 17:31:29 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:31:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:17 arrrgh 17:32:26 <_3b`> wget http://.../lisp/{04..05}.{01..12}.{01..31} maybe? 17:32:31 the darcs on this debian is too old to manage the bordeaux-threads repo :/ 17:33:43 -!- milanj [~milan@79.101.149.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:33 nikodemus: how old ? 17:34:38 <_3b`> though i guess the original code tries to be a bit smarter, i just grab new stuff by hand when i want to do a search 17:34:50 _3b`: defenetly. 17:35:38 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:35:51 -!- mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:33 1.0.9 17:38:39 _3b`: I am going to grab it [auto|system]atically.. to run some statistics on it (actually thinking about an irc bot for that) 17:38:43 milanj [~milan@93.86.241.7] has joined #lisp 17:42:36 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96913 # is what i use to maintain my local copy of the logs 17:43:07 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:40 *nyef* was just thinking that it might be nice to have minion et alia maintain their own channel logs... once they can stay connected. 17:44:56 nikodemus: thanks 17:46:15 nyef: it might be better to have a separate bot for logging 17:46:40 <_3b`> would be nice to have the context logs back in lisppaste 17:46:47 <_3b`> context links i mean 17:46:49 Isn't that what ccl-logbot is for? 17:46:58 (The separate bot for logging, that is.) 17:47:16 _3b`: Yeah, exactly. And this time without relying on a separate service which can go down. 17:47:38 (Though it wouldn't be so bad if it was at least in a silver thunderbird.) 17:48:02 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-204.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:48:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:49 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:50:50 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:16 phf [~user@38.98.248.211] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 anyone tried using cl-objc or objective-cl recently? 17:54:00 hmm.. the only one I touched (barely) was the one supplied with CCL 17:56:16 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.241.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:59:55 -!- vng [~user@123.20.118.133] has quit [Quit: good night everyone! :)] 18:00:59 Good nite everyone! :) 18:01:10 maus: Sleep well. 18:01:43 nyef: thank you! See you! :) 18:01:45 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 18:01:59 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.104.71] has left #lisp 18:02:15 right, i'm porting some ccl code to sbcl. i'll probably move all the foreign code to C callbacks and ffi into it, but i'm exploring objc libraries to avoid rewriting chunks. 18:02:16 milanj [~milan@93.87.116.213] has joined #lisp 18:03:37 pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:40 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:05:57 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:39 saba [~saba@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:10:14 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:52 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082EF15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:17 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082C2D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:42 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:45 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:17:44 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A938.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:18:42 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 18:21:35 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-61-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:49 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:07 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:06 mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:23 -!- _3b` [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:26:15 -!- cola-zero [~cola-zero@OBYfb-06p4-207.ppp11.odn.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:27:20 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-44-90.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:28:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 18:30:25 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.11] has joined #lisp 18:30:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:12 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:47 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:34:08 Is the minimum number of arguments for function application specified? 18:34:27 it probably is, I just don't remember what it is or where to find it :( 18:36:02 minimum? 18:36:17 minimum number of arguments an implementation must support for function application. 18:36:34 0? 18:36:47 clhs call-arguments-limit 18:36:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 18:36:58 aha, thanks. 18:37:27 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:39:09 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 18:39:12 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-149-88.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:00 _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:20 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:40:50 ephcon [~ephcon@n250-38.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:41:03 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 18:41:05 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:32 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:46 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A938.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:38 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:50:04 _3b` [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:52:31 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 prxq [~mommer@g226206078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:50 hi 18:53:31 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:53:31 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:53:52 i downloaded sbcl's latest source from www.sbcl.org. Trying to build the documentation fails with a "filename too long" error. Anyone here has observed the same? 18:55:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:56:38 hi nikodemus 18:58:10 Method-sb_002dbsd_002dsockets_003asocket_002dmake_002dstream-_0028_0028socket-socket_0029-_0026key-input-output-_0028element_002dtype-_0027character_0029-_0028buffering-full_0029-_0028external_002dformat-default_0029-timeout_0029.html 18:58:13 whoa 18:58:25 it wouldn't take much of a path to make that overflow 256 characters 18:58:53 I did my build in /tmp/, so am probably safe 18:58:59 i see 19:00:01 -!- ekpneo_ [~ekpneo@r33t.real-ity.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:43 alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:01 Krystof: is it reasonable to take the sources from the source distribution and build a release binary from it? 19:01:33 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:17 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:35 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:04:42 dabr [~dabr@99-210.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:06:38 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:47 Should submit an entry on LP, there's sure a way to use less verbose names 19:08:34 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.163.177.246] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:10:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:31 prxq: yes, I think so 19:12:10 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:15 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:10 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has joined #lisp 19:16:37 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 19:17:03 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:17:03 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:17:05 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:18:13 lol [~alexander@lajb0x.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 19:18:38 -!- lol is now known as Guest19650 19:21:18 -!- Guest19650 is now known as pastah_rhymez 19:21:21 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:01 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:23:36 -!- saba [~saba@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: qrr] 19:24:40 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:49 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:05 sb-introspect and sb-queue fail for me on the latest sbcl amd64 19:28:04 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:44 ignotus [~ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:28:44 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 19:28:44 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 sh make-target-contribs.sh 2>&1 | tee /tmp/sbcl-contribs.log 19:29:03 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:30:07 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:17 then paste.lisp.org it? 19:30:30 might be too much for it 19:30:53 just paste the failure messages 19:31:12 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-9-71.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:31:22 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:32:35 freaktab [~chatzilla@dslb-088-075-213-190.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:50 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:26 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 19:35:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: food! food!] 19:36:26 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:37:04 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-80-237.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:37:22 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:26 Paste too large. 19:37:28 Grrr. 19:37:47 -!- dabr [~dabr@99-210.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:00 Fare pasted "Contrib failure with SBCL 1.0.37.15 on Linux amd64" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97036 19:39:14 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:15 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 Fare: you're not on HEAD 19:41:59 Fare annotated #97036 "these from sb-queue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97036#1 19:42:44 I'm not? damn it. I was using the git repo on git://repo.or.cz/sbcl.git 19:43:21 is there an automatically updated git repo somewhere? 19:43:32 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:18 Fare: git://sbcl.boinkor.net/sbcl.git is updated pretty often 19:44:22 every hour, IIRC 19:44:37 yup and planet.sbcl.org shows that the relevant fix is in there 19:44:42 Fare: I let someone else confirm, but I guess git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git is nearer the svn stream than git://repo.or.cz/sbcl.git 19:45:07 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 19:45:16 I guess one question is if the repo.or one is auto-mirroring or manually updated by someone? 19:45:28 lhz: you mean, upstream moved from cvs to snv?? 19:45:41 no 19:45:44 Fare: no, my mistake, it's cvs last time I checked. 19:46:07 ah, repo.or.cz is indeed auto-mirroring from git://sbcl.boinkor.net/sbcl.git 19:46:14 so I guess it's just a little slower than you might hope for. :) 19:46:34 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 19:47:00 -!- pastah_rhymez [~alexander@lajb0x.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6.3] 19:49:05 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:51:37 _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-iznpxsfinoumdygc] has joined #lisp 19:52:35 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:24 <_rata_> hello 19:56:09 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:43 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 19:57:14 Is there a standard way to have metadata for a function in lisp? For example if I wished to store the number of times a function was called where might I put that? 19:57:24 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:57:31 mcdonji: you might put it in a separate hash table. 19:57:50 (defvar *call-counts* (make-hash-table)) for example 19:58:16 In other words - I would create an object with my function in it and tack metadata to the object? 19:58:25 then have a list of objectws 19:59:15 mcdonji: you might do something like that. 20:01:17 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:02:32 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.72.183] has joined #lisp 20:04:09 Right now if I want to search my source code for something I use something like grep. Compared to the UI I would create for my users when they search for a person it is pretty crappy. If I put my code in my application and in an object I could use the same nice search I created for my user to search people to search my code. 20:05:01 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 20:05:02 Small talk kind of gives me that with the IDE being the same as the application. 20:05:22 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: reboot due to SL 10.6.3] 20:06:09 Lisp is not much different 20:06:57 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:24 mcdonji: use hash tables with symbols as keys 20:07:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:44 For me the difference is I store my source code in files on the filesystem not in the application. 20:08:35 Yes, but you do not use grep to interrogate your running system for information 20:08:38 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:51 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:56 you ask your running system for that information! 20:09:12 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:26 ... apparently #lisp is not the only place that thought of using unicode in symbols in actual programs :D 20:09:37 p_l: that would be two hashtables? 20:10:35 Exactly. I think I do want to ask my application not grep on my filesystem to find me some hunk of source code. 20:11:34 Sure, it's M-. in Slime 20:11:35 stassats: why two? 20:11:55 p_l: one for a package, one yours 20:12:49 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-214.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:12:57 jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-oeequgrpxdiwmtua] has joined #lisp 20:13:18 stassats: ah. 20:15:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:22 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 20:18:51 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:54 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:06 rread_ [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:52 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:24:25 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:25 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-lpehxlkbvxbdyurt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:25:25 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 20:25:37 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:44 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-qlfcsbserrkqyhho] has joined #lisp 20:27:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:14 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@n250-38.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:30:02 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ulvmcdzmpcycleez] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:12 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ctrfjouhjttfcmez] has joined #lisp 20:30:13 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 20:31:31 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:14 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:41 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 20:34:23 ephcon [~ephcon@n250-38.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:01 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:53 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:53 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:46 Intensity [vTu5j0ThgX@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 I'm getting a weird error in sbcl when using the #'some function "The value NIL is not of type SB-C::NODE." 20:38:08 Anyone see anythign like this before>? 20:38:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:39:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B297.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:18 how are you using it? 20:39:20 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:39:22 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@n250-38.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:33 stassats: Here, one sec 20:40:13 mstevens [~mstevens@osaka.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 Hrm, the buffering in read-line in SBCL is unfortunate. It seems to lag a line behind the input. 20:41:27 herbieB pasted "Weird error?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97041 20:42:02 If I replace "some" with "any" it works fine 20:43:01 As in the fucntion becomes defined 20:43:04 Not that the fucntion works 20:43:05 herbieB: that's right, report it 20:43:12 oh nevermind, I was just being stupid, it works fine. :) 20:43:16 i mean, i can reproduce 20:43:47 What version are you running? 20:44:05 1.0.36.39 20:44:09 -!- freaktab [~chatzilla@dslb-088-075-213-190.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 20:44:15 K 20:45:16 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:45:21 I guess I'll try to upgrade to 1.0.37 first 20:45:36 -!- _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-iznpxsfinoumdygc] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:46:16 i don't think anything changed there, but try anyway 20:46:34 Nodnod, but might as well do due diligence :) 20:48:41 amanda1 [~amanda@c213-100-205-25.swipnet.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:42 http://www.mdhjakten.se/dela/?id=dti2d6s 20:48:44 nice svhool 20:50:17 -!- amanda1 [~amanda@c213-100-205-25.swipnet.se] has left #lisp 20:50:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:50:42 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:06 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:22 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 20:53:15 reduced test-case: (defun test (a b) (if (some (lambda (x) (zerop (mod a x))) b) (test a b))) 20:54:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:57:53 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:33 Yeah, it has to do with mod 20:58:56 Thanks though, I was near there in my reduction 20:59:02 If you replace mod with +, it works :P 20:59:09 If you don't include the recursive call, it works. 20:59:31 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 21:00:59 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 21:03:13 *p_l* finds "fasl" extension among Mozilla profile data... 21:03:23 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:03:43 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04:31 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:56 herbieB: + isn't interesting, but REM doesn't trigger it either 21:05:23 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 Well, I figured mod == any other function call, but yeah 21:06:04 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 21:06:09 Rem triggered it for me 21:06:21 you sure/ 21:06:21 ? 21:06:38 At least in the original func I provided 21:06:41 Maybe not in yours 21:06:58 it triggers only with a higher debug 21:07:02 Yeah, not yorus, ha 21:07:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:07:07 Oh, interesting 21:08:43 Setting debug to 0 still getting it 21:08:57 MOD, but not REM 21:09:01 Ahhhh 21:10:24 It's bug # 551227 , if you want to add anything while playing around with it :) 21:10:28 Thanks for the help :) 21:10:36 lp 551227 21:10:36 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/551227 21:10:53 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.73.119.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:11:26 Jah 21:17:13 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226206078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:24 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:05 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:21:12 -!- alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:26 -!- phf [~user@38.98.248.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:32 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:01 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 21:42:00 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: kernel] 21:44:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 -!- milanj [~milan@93.87.116.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:45:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: night] 21:46:48 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:57 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-oeequgrpxdiwmtua] has left #lisp 21:48:40 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:21 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:49:51 -!- tltstc` [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc`] 21:50:56 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:41 amanda1 [~amanda@c213-100-205-25.swipnet.se] has joined #lisp 21:51:43 http://www.mdhjakten.se/dela/?id=dti2d6s 21:51:46 oh come on what is this 21:55:18 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:55:33 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:50 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:08 amanda1, programmeringsspråket Common Lisp. 21:56:35 MDH? Dunno. I'd go for CTH or KTH. 22:01:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@osaka.etla.org] has quit [Quit: z] 22:03:40 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:56 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 22:05:27 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:20 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:07:24 rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:10:24 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 22:11:15 ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has joined #lisp 22:11:35 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:54 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 22:13:04 rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:40 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:15:34 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d83a34.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:05 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:35 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:48 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: C programmers don't have friend.] 22:21:39 -!- amanda1 [~amanda@c213-100-205-25.swipnet.se] has left #lisp 22:22:17 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 22:23:10 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-23-87-232.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:18 suleiman [~silas@94-193-31-19.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:24:29 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:14 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-19-21-96.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:28:10 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-23-87-253.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:04 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-23-87-232.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:36 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 22:32:26 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:53 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:34:44 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:36:25 -!- sliq [~sliq@208.138.34.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:39:20 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:45 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:42:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:44:43 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:10 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:45 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:47:10 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:47:58 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:48:58 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-27-245.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:53 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-23-87-253.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:01 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8211.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:53:54 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-56-7.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:14 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:25 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-27-245.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57:24 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 22:59:07 Anyone familliar with ltk? 23:00:15 i've used it a tiny itsy bit. but what is the real question? 23:01:56 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-244-120.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:08 -!- ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:15 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:11 -!- mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:08:30 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 23:08:51 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:01 howdy 23:09:20 anyone else seeing a broken build on x86-64/darwin/sbcl? 23:09:34 it seemed to build fine, but can't rebuild itself. 23:10:07 slyrus: changed arch? If so, you'll have to clean. 23:10:29 hmm... I didn't think I was changing architectures, and, yes, I did a clean.sh 23:11:12 but, yes, it does seem like somehow I've got part of a 32-bit build around. hrm... 23:11:20 and hey pkhoung, how goes it? 23:13:33 Spending a lot of time as an officer of . Between that and my phd, everything else is on the backburner. 23:14:10 how close to being done with the PhD are you? 23:14:53 very far (: I officially started this semester. 23:15:08 good luck then! 23:15:19 CS? 23:15:36 operations research 23:15:57 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.33] has joined #lisp 23:16:56 I would come up with a rhyme about optimization and optimizers based on the Stonecutter's Song from The Simpsons to fit this, but I'm too tired. 23:17:49 Also, SBCL is feeling a bit like real work, with the amount of cruft that's accumulated over the years 23:17:57 heh 23:18:04 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:18:35 so how do I figure out what clean.sh might be leaving behind that's having me pick up part of a 32-bit build? 23:20:07 i think nikodemus already has. That would be on launchpad, as a wishlist, somewhere? 23:20:19 oh noes... could apple have mucked with the defaults on their compilers again? 23:20:30 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:30 *slyrus* is trying to build on the newly minted 10.6.3 23:21:10 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.23] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:21:40 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:20 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 23:26:21 slyrus pasted "x86-64/darwin build failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97049 23:27:48 ... No size function...? 23:27:49 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:28:02 Where'd I run into that within the past, say, half-year? 23:28:52 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:30:49 rares1 [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:24 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:31:44 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:33:24 UnderTaLker [~bot@89.108.125.28] has joined #lisp 23:33:52 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-80-237.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:34:31 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-214.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:25 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:38:41 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:38:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:54 ? 23:40:14 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:18 slyrus: I distinctly remember getting an error message about there not being a size function for something -in lutex-saving- within the past half-year. 23:40:25 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:40:37 yeah, this looks vaguely familiar to me too... 23:41:01 I think it was in the whole wider-fixnums thing, but am not certain. 23:41:13 hrm. It would be nice if control-c in SBCL with --disable-debugger would just throw a catchable signal. 23:41:31 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.11] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 23:41:48 ...and if not caught, would exit with a less excessively-verbose error. 23:42:14 foom: Something you can do with invoke-debugger-hook, or enable-interrupt sigint, maybe? 23:42:28 nyef: yes, I'm inclined to do the second 23:42:41 it's just not very nice default behavior for a program to have. 23:42:57 with "program" being the thing I'm trying to write in lisp. 23:43:40 well, I can force an i386 build to work, at least. 23:43:49 E.g. in python it simply throws a KeyboardInterrupt exception 23:45:16 now let's try building the x86-64 version with the 32-bit host 23:46:25 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:46:31 rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:33 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:53 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:57:59 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]