00:00:14 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:33 You don't know what recursion is? 00:00:48 Zhivago: I don't know how "to handle recursion in a multiplexer". 00:01:00 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:32 Zhivago: just like I don't know what recursion in a NAND gate is. But if you mean something specific, maybe you can clarify 00:01:48 Stop being obsessed about multiplexors, and actually understand what it is what bytecolor is doing. 00:02:07 Which is evolving general purpose programs. Which includes recursive programs. 00:02:23 Zhivago: my point was simple in the beginning: if it is for the purpose of evolving programs: you shouldn't be touching the code it generates. 00:02:24 Your suggestions are all pretty much completely useless because they fail to grasp that essential point. 00:02:53 There are some programs that do not require recursion, and you can use vectors for those. 00:03:06 Ahh. that point has come where the lisp fangs are out. Where old hats spit on lesser mortals. 00:03:33 bytecolor: goo'luck. 00:03:35 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 00:03:38 No. This is merely someone being annoyed at people being verbosely illiterate. 00:04:18 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:02 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:36 for the record define-fitness-cases-for-11-MULTIPLEXER was not in the book. You have to interpret the book and write the test code yourself. And I'm far far from a lisp guru, hence the wonky code I pasted. ;) 00:05:55 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:14 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:31 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-207.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08:59 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 00:13:56 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:17:04 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 00:23:29 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-74-106-76-18.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:29 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-74-106-76-18.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:23:29 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:26:43 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:47 -!- chessguy [~chessguy@pool-96-255-155-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: chessguy] 00:28:41 hmmm... if I don't call compile anywhere, does it mean I can get away by removing all macrodefinitions? (with possible exception of avoiding some stuff in certain packages, like PCL) 00:30:51 p_l: a just-in-time compiler or interpreter may not be happy with that 00:31:01 s/may/might/ 00:31:35 madnificent: I forgot to say that I'm considering doing this for an image in SBCL/CCL 00:34:14 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:17 Well, I also did consider removing the whole sb-pcl but I thought that certain elements of implementation's code might complain 00:34:31 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-56-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:25 p_l: then don't have the right geek card to answer ): 00:38:31 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:27 oh well, II got into low-level enoguh stuff lately 00:40:23 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:44 Why do you want to get rid of all macro-definitions? 00:40:46 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-frjmcbwpoqkxveum] has joined #lisp 00:40:53 p_l: you're making the images smaller? 00:40:57 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:42:34 -!- dmit [~dmit@94.247.120.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:10 madnificent: it was on my list of things to play around with for over two years now 00:44:28 :P 00:44:51 Also, I have pretty serious interest in deplyment of desktop applications, where while acceptable, the big size of image might put off some. 00:45:52 (though I always have the option to turn to ACL or LW - I'd just prefer to do that with SBCL/CCL/ECL) 00:46:13 Are macrodefinitions a significant size overhead? 00:46:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BD21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:46:58 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:59 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:47:51 Zhivago: no, but it was relevant to a certain line of thought I had regarding the whole approach 00:48:02 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-167-152.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:48:13 (I also noticed removal of them in images dumped by LW) 00:48:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:11 I had this lovely project idea sprout suddenly in my mind lately which couldn't be done around with anything other than classic client-server desktop app (with normal GUI), which already would have to deal with big memory objects, and this managed to railroad me back to topic of making images smaller 00:52:45 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 00:53:12 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.237] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 (the real approach will probably end up with a bunch of classes wrapping mmap()ed memory blocks, though) 00:56:02 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-frjmcbwpoqkxveum] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:47 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:00 -!- faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 01:02:59 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:38 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 01:04:45 igaray [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 01:05:25 hello 01:05:59 -!- igaray is now known as lordakinator 01:07:49 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:08:23 hello lordakinator 01:09:17 hi mad, what's up? 01:10:45 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:30 not much, I guess... 01:11:37 have I seen you around here before lordakinator? 01:15:05 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-ztrkcnvndazophum] has joined #lisp 01:15:12 nope, new 01:15:28 i haven't IRC'd since I was 18 01:15:39 that was 8 years ago 01:15:59 cool 01:16:14 and you've been coding lisp all along? or are you learning? 01:17:26 I started a few months ago, before that C, java, and python. 01:17:56 still struglling with macros, although I've gotten pretty good at making most of my code applicative-styled 01:18:33 I get a kick out of doing things in 3 lines which I used to do in 50, and still be able to read it 01:18:38 struggling with the understanding of said macros, or with writing them? 01:18:58 LoL, that's lisp alright 01:19:20 I get how they are written, I guess I'm having difficulty finding places to use them in my code 01:19:38 that'll come automagically. Just give it time 01:19:42 igive it time :) 01:19:46 hehe 01:20:15 paul graham's "on lisp" has a great section on when to use macros... I really liked it (but on lisp is not your standard beginners book, so it may not be the best thing to read right now) 01:20:27 derrida: see! We must be right! 01:21:06 I started out with Touretzky's book, and was planning on moving on to on lisp in a few weeks 01:22:14 "a gentle introduction", it seems like a nice book to me, but I never read it 01:22:20 i have nt read that yet 01:22:39 maybe too late now :) 01:23:15 derrida: it's a beginners book, it ends at macro's. But it looks really nice 01:23:17 lordakinator: practical common lisp is wonderful and available online 01:23:21 it's clear, even for those not used to programming 01:23:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:23:27 cool 01:23:40 derrida: albeit the PCL is wonderful, I think gentle might be better for most people 01:24:17 the PCL is decently written. But it looks like everything is easy, whereas it isn't that easy for new lispers. At least, I found it to be a complicated book 01:24:47 I agree, what I liked about gentle intro is that it gives a solid foundation. I liked how he has three different chapters on for applicative, recursive and block-structured programming 01:24:50 gentle seems to elaborate on all things a bit more. A bit less practical, but more on the understanding side of lisp. That may be something worth a few hundred pages 01:25:03 i had already been programming for a while but i found it pretty good for people in that boat 01:25:30 it's also the only one I found which clearly explaines the difference between symbols, variables and values. 01:25:35 for me, verbose books don't stay open very long :( 01:26:21 I read the PCL after programming for a few years. I found it to be rather dense. I frequently had to grab it back to see what was what. I think gentle would've made me (but that is me and I know it might not apply to all other humans) understand it all a bit better in a bit less time 01:26:21 lol, I know how you feel derrida, its taking me long to finish it or that reason, but I'm the kind of guy who can't do it if he doesn't understand how it works 01:26:23 soon i'll only be able to tolerate source code ;) 01:26:43 lordakinator: i'm the same way 01:26:50 incf lordakinator 01:27:13 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:59 madnificent: i actually already had a surface familiarity with scheme so that probable helped :) 01:28:22 derrida: you cheat! 01:30:03 derrida: did you find CL to be easier or harder than scheme? 01:30:24 well, they're quite different 01:30:28 lordakinator: just better :P 01:30:31 scheme is very small 01:31:24 lordakinator: the cool thing is, once you know one, picking up the other (or any lisp) isn't a very hard thing to do 01:32:01 has anyone here gone over to the dark side (clojure)? 01:32:10 for a couple of days 01:34:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:34:17 lordakinator: evil evil evil evil evil evil 01:34:50 lordakinator: I looked at it, but then decided that it was not worth the hassle. They should've built a CL implementation + some libraries... that would've done the trick and it would've been far less cumbersome 01:35:24 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.62] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:36:19 lol. im uing it to bait a friend of mine. he had his head washed at college and loves java. now hes hearing about the functional rage and wants to try it. I make him angry by telling him java is the new basic :P 01:37:31 lordakinator: not new basic. new COBOL 01:38:14 which implementation do you guys use? I try things out in clisp and then move them over to ecl 01:39:56 lordakinator: SBCL, sometimes CCL (especially on windows, where I tend to use 64bit CCL), sometimes ECL 01:40:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:24 SBCL definitely seems to be the most popular implementation in here. 01:42:40 I see 01:43:39 lordakinator: out of free implementations, SBCL and CCL tend to have the best support and be (IMHO) best feature wise 01:43:55 lordakinator: ECL is probably the worst of those to start using lisp (it has its uses, but it has its quirks too) 01:44:36 lordakinator: most people at my univ don't know anything but Java :( 01:44:47 i started using it for its C api, i was writing a small game with the interface in C, and the engine in lisp 01:45:20 madnificent: it's exactly the same at mine, except we get a lot of Prolog because it what all the teachers use when working 01:45:33 CLISP does however have sweet set of contrib modulesincluded, while ECL is IMHO for someone advanced who knows how to deal with its numerous quirks, while taking advantage of its superior ^_- deployability :-) 01:47:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:39 Also, ECL seems more portable to me (even more than clisp - I got disillusioned after finding that clisp project leader can't read docs with understanding) 01:47:40 what about CFFI? has anyone used that extensively? 01:48:09 lordakinator: I'd bet it's one of the most used packages in many projects, even if indirectly ;-) 01:48:30 p_l: you mean as in comprehension fail? 01:48:52 it's quite easy to start with and quite nice. You'll have more problems on the foreign side (like C++ libs that don't have C interface) 01:49:23 lordakinator: yep. Comprehension failure regarding malloc/mprotect/etc. was IMHO spectacular 01:50:01 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:01 it's things like that that make me rather disheartened towards a project/product/company/etc. (like how Oracle turning their back on customer with max. support contract made me seriously negative about them) 01:52:04 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53:09 the older I get the more influence I see politics/economics have on everything. it's hard not to get cynical sometimes. 01:53:28 -!- Skewb [~Skewb@62.32.128.252] has quit [] 01:54:04 lordakinator: I only hope that my boss called the right people at Oracle to thrash them for that snub ;-) 01:54:11 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.87] has joined #lisp 01:54:32 p_l: can you tell us where you work? 01:55:09 lordakinator: I don't work there anymore, but it was a short stint at what could be called T-Mobile Poland, UNIX Systems Section 01:55:53 (the company was called differently and used different brands, but T-Mobile was acting like they owned more than 51% of shares ^_-) 01:56:07 a big mobile telco 01:56:25 lol. cool, a pole. I'm in Argentina, although not for long I hope 01:56:45 I just happened to sit in the same office as my boss so I got to hear the affair with Oracle :D 02:00:12 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:01:02 lukego [~lukegorri@60.53.130.214] has joined #lisp 02:01:09 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@60.53.130.214] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:27 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:01:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:02:36 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 where does one get the latest version of swank? 02:04:28 the link on cliki is quite outdated 02:04:46 swank is in the slime source 02:04:50 ahh 02:04:55 thanks. 02:05:34 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-63.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:06:31 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:12 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:09:17 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:50 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:22:44 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-117-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:54 *p_l* wonders if anyone tried packaging a new version of slime for cliki... 02:25:09 fcbr [~f@c-71-231-182-52.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:18 -!- fcbr [~f@c-71-231-182-52.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:00 hmm... cliki still lists v2.0 02:28:34 I think it's hopeless! slimes moves too fast, you need to get it from the repository. 02:29:04 there's plenty of stale stuff going on on cliki 02:29:17 for example, it recommends getting the FAIRLY STABLE snapshot. 02:29:23 which actually dates back to 2007 =) 02:29:34 pjb: would weekly snapshots be enough? 02:29:37 (it recommends doing that as a "cutting edge" thing) 02:30:25 p_l: the problem is that implementations are patched to support slime and slime is patched to support implementations. 02:31:09 pjb: a snapshot based less on time but more on changelog, I mean 02:31:35 and maybe a nicely-readable page on what changed 02:32:37 nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has joined #lisp 02:32:54 I guess eventually it will stablize... 02:33:02 Same for ASDF, etc. 02:34:33 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:40 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-27-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:34:52 how does one leave a message with minion again? 02:35:01 Shaftoe: minion: help 02:35:10 minion: help 02:35:10 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 02:35:21 minion: help memos 02:35:21 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 02:35:31 Shaftoe: of course, you can do that privately: /msg minion help 02:35:48 ah yes. the subtleties of irc. 02:35:55 which I totally ignore. 02:36:01 ;) 02:36:22 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-117-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:39:47 -!- twopoint718 [~chris@76.208.66.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:40:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:44:17 pity that whenever I want to update Cliki, I get the urge to change the software it runs on (and mission statement referring to ALU Wiki) 02:45:31 with merging of both Cliki and ALU Wiki together ;-) 02:45:37 (as a pipe dream) 02:46:03 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-ztrkcnvndazophum] has quit [] 02:47:34 the recovered ALU Wiki, for example, has much nicer look&feel to it 02:49:20 p_l: wouldn't the lisp community be hostile towards changing cliki? 02:49:28 (I have no reason though) 02:50:19 I can't seem to find the slime files the Aquamacs natively uses. 02:50:24 anyone familiar with this? 02:50:47 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:58 madnificent: not *removing* or anything, but rather merging both and making the end result "nicer". Not only in terms of graphics, but also organization 02:53:42 p_l: that is how I interpreted it. I just have the feeling that many lispers don't like change. For as far as I'm concerned, go ahead! 02:53:58 madnificient: very perceptive =) 02:54:03 What? 02:54:04 CHANGE? 02:54:13 WHAT?! WHY 02:54:16 Who said that? LART the pinhead! 02:54:23 KILL KILL KILL 02:54:30 Eat flaming death! 02:54:37 minion: chant 02:54:37 MORE ON CHANGELOG 02:57:31 I'm officially baffled. I don't know where Aquamacs finds its slime.el 02:57:53 the only slime.el file on my computer is something I just downloaded that Aquamacs can't know about 02:57:58 Shaftoe: find / -name "slime.el" 02:58:03 yup. 02:58:06 ah 02:58:12 there is one. 02:58:14 does it load a slime.el file? 02:58:23 I don't know. Maybe it doesn't. 02:58:30 it *has* the latest version of slime though 02:58:33 <_3b> M-x describe-function slime-mode and click on 'slime.el' in the help window 02:58:36 but I don't know where it gets it from 02:58:44 what if you grep every file within the aquamacs dir for "slime"? 02:59:14 _3b: have you helped that new guy in #lispgames with respect to the existing 3d engines. I thought you could have had an idea about it 02:59:34 <_3b> madnificent: someone gave the answer i knew about (okra) 02:59:45 ok 02:59:45 _3b: clicking on it found the file. but I don't know where it is. 02:59:51 any way to figure that out? 03:00:08 <_3b> Shaftoe: C-x C-f in that buffer is how i would check that 03:00:15 yeah. 03:01:02 <_3b> or i guess C-x C-b and find it in that list 03:01:24 change and close also gives a prompt 03:01:39 madnificent: minion agred with me :D 03:02:19 p_l: the gods have spoken 03:02:40 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:04:02 aye 03:05:19 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 03:06:14 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-xzctdegufbpvknxl] has joined #lisp 03:06:48 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:07:01 ..faslpath is surprising piece of code... 03:07:43 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:09:14 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@pool-98-112-173-63.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 03:09:24 it basically implements Python-style code loading for CL 03:13:17 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 03:15:18 <_rata_> p_l: I arrived late... what does implement Python-style code loading for CL? 03:15:57 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:07 argh. I'm gonna dissapoint stassats. 03:17:08 yates [~yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:16 what is "defparameter" 03:17:28 my slime shell hep doesn't recognize it 03:17:36 s/hep/help/ 03:17:44 <_3b> clhs defparameter 03:17:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 03:17:49 _rata_: faslpath 03:18:37 <_rata_> thanks 03:19:40 when you (setq varname val) at the top level, doesn't that create a dynamic variable? 03:20:16 _rata_: it takes defpackage declarations and uses those to compile systems 03:20:31 (assuming the packages are named in certain way) 03:21:08 yates: i think dynamic binding is only activated by defvar 03:21:25 <_rata_> lordakinator: and defparameter I think 03:21:57 both 03:22:17 <_rata_> p_l: ok, I thought something different 03:22:34 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:42 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:02 _rata_: I think some implementations do create one 03:26:09 <_rata_> madnificent: sorry... do create what? 03:26:14 defparameter afaik is equivalent to (defmacro defparameter (name value &optional documentation) `(progn (defvar ,name ,value ,documentation)(setf ,name ,value))) or something like that 03:26:26 do create a dynamic variable and damn, that was for yates 03:26:28 yates: ^ 03:26:39 <_rata_> ok :) 03:27:12 <_rata_> p_l: I think that definition is exactly what defparameter does 03:27:41 the first example in the clhs hints at it being used in that way though 03:28:41 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #lisp 03:30:14 p_l: holy f**k i have no idea what that means! :D 03:30:21 this is hilarious 03:30:27 even minion has an attitude 03:30:50 I've asked it about memos for a third time (because I'm *that* forgetful) and it responds with attitude 03:33:30 *p_l* is impressed that he managed to write that defmacro though squinted eyes and being rather wary of writing them 03:33:44 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-167-152.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:51 madnificent: thanks 03:37:32 Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.232] has joined #lisp 03:37:38 sid_ [~sid@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 03:38:12 what is meant by "chunking" ? http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 03:39:04 yates: HTTP chunked stream? 03:39:14 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:15 p_l: what does that mean? 03:39:18 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:58 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:41:34 well, its way past my bedtime. thanks everyone 03:41:58 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: zzzzz] 03:42:29 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:43:12 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:44:54 yates: chunking is adifferent (rare, afaik) encoding for HTTP stream that allows interrupting and resuming the stream, not in "please send from this offset, but in "please wait while I think about data" way 03:47:05 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:30 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:54:11 p_l: it's different. compiling a defparameter after it's been compiled before reinitializes the parameter's value. Once a defvar has been initializes, calling defvar again doesn't reset it's value to the original value. 03:54:37 Compiling or loading? 03:54:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rllrovhaifqrhzls] has joined #lisp 03:55:00 Zhivago: loading 03:55:24 Zhivago: I wanted something like reevaluating 03:56:14 madnificent: that's why I wrote that example macro - defparameter *always* evaluates the value and sets symbol's value cell to it 03:59:47 troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:59 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:15 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:15 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:39 p_l: woops, I read it the other way around for some reason. You're right 04:10:20 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:26 greetings! 04:12:02 p_l: ok, thanks 04:12:13 good nite all - thanks for the answers and education 04:14:11 lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-206-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:25 good night yates 04:16:23 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:18:13 -!- lpolzer__ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-242-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:21:12 aooga [~somebody@adsl-76-203-124-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:15 -!- Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:30:51 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:37:29 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:11 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53:26 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:54 nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has joined #lisp 04:57:49 -!- aooga [~somebody@adsl-76-203-124-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:58:45 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-xzctdegufbpvknxl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:58:50 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: brb, router hop.] 05:01:04 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:09 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:19 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:09:43 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 05:09:56 gwynddyllyd [~user@201.29.231.96] has joined #lisp 05:11:00 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 05:14:10 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:22:46 -!- gwynddyllyd [~user@201.29.231.96] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:22:59 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@183.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:33:50 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:39:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:57 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:14 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 05:41:59 -!- sid_ [~sid@192.163.20.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:30 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:44:33 minion: memo for drewc: what are the chances for changes to CLiki? Cause I was pondering spending some time over a replacement engine (and data migration tool) during holdays and I'm wondering if there was a chance to see it actually powering CLiki (it might get used by me for something different) 05:44:34 Remembered. I'll tell drewc when he/she/it next speaks. 05:45:32 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:06 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:47:03 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:48:54 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:40 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-179-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:51:34 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:25 -!- pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:27 sid_ [~sid@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 05:54:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:54:40 pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:53 DixitDominus [~trono@cpe-74-68-150-209.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:54 hi 05:54:59 I need to make a database 05:55:02 of products 05:55:06 help? 05:55:12 is on the way? 05:55:22 is either lisp or postgres 05:55:28 I'd rather start with lisps 05:55:34 hello? 05:55:48 p:( 05:55:52 :*( 05:56:15 Well, that's nice. 05:56:49 DixitDominus: lisp and postgres, maybe? 05:57:29 why not pure lisp? 05:57:47 how to prototype? with html? 05:57:54 like a sketch 05:59:06 just do it 05:59:08 DixitDominus: you can use clayworks, that contains a database backend for postgresql (although not a really fast one), a library to generate html, a routing system and some helpers for model-view-controller 05:59:24 or you can use raw hunchentoot and cl-who (that's rather popular) 05:59:43 DixitDominus: there is ##lispweb, which is virtually dead, but has some users that actually do stuff with lisp + web 06:00:02 oO, I want pure lisp first 06:00:08 *p_l* recommends yaclml in place of cl-who, though 06:00:23 with command line prompt 06:00:41 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:01:08 DixitDominus: you want a pure lisp backend for storing the objects in your web-app? 06:01:37 this?? -> dev-lisp/cl-yaclml-darcs 06:01:55 mm.. nothing to do with web at first 06:02:12 somethign to retrieve organize a list 06:02:13 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:02:53 DixitDominus: I recommend also using clbuild, not sure how well is lisp represented in Emerge 06:03:07 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:49 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-147-58.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:11 this well --> http://gentoo-portage.com/dev-lisp 06:04:28 DixitDominus: I use clbuild on gentoo too. It's simply the easiest route 06:04:41 though I do use gentoo's sbcl 06:05:15 p_l: and this --> www.cliki.net/Gentoo 06:05:18 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:05:41 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 06:06:30 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:38 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 06:08:25 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-178.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:16:48 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:20:18 whats the best way to remove the last element of a list 06:20:34 i did a (reverse (rest (reverse 06:20:43 cant imagine that efficient though 06:21:04 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:21:11 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:22:19 PuffTheMagic: (setf (cdr (last list)) nil) 06:22:55 i was wondering if setting to nil would work like in C 06:24:46 PuffTheMagic: a list is built up out of conses. All but the last cons's cdr contains another cons 06:30:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rllrovhaifqrhzls] has left #lisp 06:32:30 madnificent: cdr of last is nil for every proper list 06:32:51 you want (setf (last list) nil) 06:33:55 PuffTheMagic: p_l is right 06:35:08 or another way, (setf list (butlast list))? 06:35:23 my previous *code* example was incorrect, btw 06:35:34 (the statement about proper lists is true) 06:36:01 butlast is what i wanted i think 06:36:19 -!- milanj [~milan@79.101.196.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:34 yup thanks 06:40:42 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-178.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: *thud*] 06:40:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:40:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:41:00 milanj [~milan@93.86.189.109] has joined #lisp 06:41:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:41:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:41:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:42:01 -!- nickjd0 [irc2gowebc@118x236x119x81.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:42:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:42:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:42:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:42:59 devslashnull [~james@dyn-172.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:43:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:43:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:43:14 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.189.109] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has joined #lisp 06:43:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.70.86.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:45:09 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:46:33 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:48:03 so I read in the CLHS that I can coerce a namestring to a pathname but I cant figure out how... could someone give me a clue 06:49:17 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:49:40 clhs pathname 06:49:40 nickjd [nickjd@118x236x115x71.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:49:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_pn.htm 06:50:09 i've looked at that 06:50:28 PuffTheMagic: doesn't (pathname "/your/string/") work? 06:50:33 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:53 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 06:55:35 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 07:03:57 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:04:06 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:04:19 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:07:35 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:08:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-parsmbafrnkxozwy] has joined #lisp 07:08:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-parsmbafrnkxozwy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:30 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-thyhtkfyxyuvvxci] has joined #lisp 07:10:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-thyhtkfyxyuvvxci] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pajoxqfltlbzwbpp] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:15:22 dlowe: aroundp 07:16:10 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:48 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:20:13 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:21:05 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 07:21:11 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.220] has joined #lisp 07:22:53 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 07:23:53 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:38 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:25:59 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:27:16 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:28 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:06 hmm... anyone noticed cases where a variable declared using "with x = val" in LOOP started acting like a global? 07:35:42 ignotus [~ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:35:43 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:35:43 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 07:36:44 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:39:08 codewad [~codewad@c-24-21-92-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:31 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:42:42 p_l: that definitely should not happen 07:44:10 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 07:45:05 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:49:20 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:50:39 p_l: no 07:50:49 (didn't try though) 07:50:58 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:52 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.71] has joined #lisp 07:54:56 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:36 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:56:15 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:56:23 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:56 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:38 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75487d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:15 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:52 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:05:25 good morning 08:06:16 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:08:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75487d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:28 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 08:13:22 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:16:20 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:23:10 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:24:40 nostoi [~nostoi@83.50.3.6] has joined #lisp 08:26:42 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:27:27 -!- psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:48 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:01 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@83.50.3.6] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:31:22 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:33:27 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:36 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:38:19 got it! finally got LarKC running common lisp! 08:39:02 well just commited it http://larkc.svn.sourceforge.net/larkc/branches/LarKC_CommonLisp_Extensions 08:39:20 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 08:41:04 *p_l* wonders if it is related to his use of #*0000000... in LET 08:41:27 little issues ike : CYC(1): (LIST-ALL-PACKAGES) ==> (# # # though left to fix 08:41:53 but it actuayl passes all but 28 ansi-tests 08:42:07 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:38 wehn i started it was 20% faster than BCL.. but now only 10% faster 08:43:46 ... right. Don't use vector literals in (F)LET* etc. 08:45:40 cause it will create a place associated with body of the lambda, thus persisting between calls 08:48:58 Tonijz [~Tonijz@85.254.194.65] has joined #lisp 08:49:32 faux [~user@static-213-115-37-226.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:52:08 it's a quite ... interesting ability, IMHO 08:55:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 -!- psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:59:19 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:59:40 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:00:35 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-35-205-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:58 <_3b> p_l: are you sure you don't mean "don't modify literals" ? 09:02:51 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-117-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:55 -!- l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:03 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:10:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:14:37 -!- lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-206-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:18:07 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 09:20:16 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: back in a few minutes, network debugging] 09:20:47 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 09:23:09 udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-htcrdehhmxycxyxl] has joined #lisp 09:24:20 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:26:08 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:28 p_l pasted "The example that got weird results" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96740 09:29:22 -!- udzinari` is now known as udzinari 09:29:52 <_3b> p_l: yeah, don't modify literals 09:29:59 p_l annotated #96740 "Fixed version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96740#1 09:30:26 _3b: still, nice feature, IMHO. Could be exploited in interesting ways 09:30:45 <_3b> well, lots of things you can break when you start writing non-conformant code :p 09:30:57 I do recall that there were some examples of using such stuff for OOP (not that I intend to) 09:31:15 _3b: is it incompatible with ANSI? 09:32:01 <_3b> clhs 3.7.1 09:32:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_ga.htm 09:33:04 hmmm... so it only means "undefined" :D 09:33:47 *p_l* finds himself referenced in CLiki! 09:35:25 dto: here? 09:35:37 hi tcr 09:37:02 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:38:15 What does M-: (slime-parse-form-upto-point) say at the position you get the eldoc error? 09:38:38 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-htcrdehhmxycxyxl] has left #lisp 09:39:49 give me a moment. 09:41:52 Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument listp "[)") 09:41:57 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6643cb-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:08 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6643cb-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:42:12 this is with point on the character immediately following the [ 09:43:12 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:43:30 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:33 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:43:50 wvdschel [~wim@vpnd182.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 09:44:02 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:11 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96741 <----- tcr 09:45:05 did modify the character syntax of ?\[ and ?\] in Emacs? 09:46:35 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:46:42 yes. http://github.com/dto/clon/blob/master/clon.el 09:46:45 toward the end 09:47:45 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:07 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:19 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:38 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:53 tcr: what do you think? 09:49:09 why does my error say eldoc mode and not slime-autodoc? 09:49:12 the error in the email 09:49:24 slime-autodoc hooks into eldoc 09:49:46 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-dtirpuiemqupzoam] has joined #lisp 09:50:22 the method definition I originally pasted was a bit screwed, the (find-package ...) check is well-intended but I still placed an explicit dto:foo symbol reference in the code 09:50:31 that's unrelated but just for the record 09:51:01 i should use (intern "method-arglist" :clon) right? 09:51:14 yeah except uppercase probably 09:51:30 did you try the M-: (slime-parse...)? 09:51:44 could you paste the backtrace? 09:52:07 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-209-106.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:52:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-209-106.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:07 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:53:03 -!- ned[] is now known as _2x2l 09:53:04 it's all bytecode beyond (wrong-type-argument listp "[)") 09:53:28 do you byte-compile slime.el? 09:54:05 it doesn't seem to have a .elc in the folder 09:55:21 open contrib/slime-parse.el and M-x eval-buffer 09:55:39 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-54-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:40 and try the test again? 09:56:01 more bytecode. 09:56:22 let me use a fresh emacs with -q 09:57:21 well paste the bytecode nontheless 09:59:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742 09:59:03 it doesn't really paste in 09:59:10 it seems to freak out firefox 09:59:38 why is there byte code? i'm fairly sure these are not being compiled 10:00:04 go to the end of slime-parse.el and comment out the byte-compiling 10:00:49 in a .lisp file, place cursor before [ 10:00:58 then M-: (string (char-syntax (char-before))) 10:01:03 this should return "(" 10:01:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#1 10:01:41 indeed "(" 10:01:55 and now the same but after a ] 10:01:59 should return ")" 10:02:43 yes. 10:03:42 I wonder why it works for me; you're on slime HEAD, right? What emacs version? 10:03:50 i haven't updated my slime in awhile. 10:03:59 i use whatever emacs23 is in ubuntu karmic 10:04:25 I think I use the same, M-x slime-changelog-date 10:04:54 2009-12-02 10:04:56 the first step in debugging slime is to update it 10:04:57 stassats`, memo from Shaftoe: I patched the slime.el file you sent. It *seems* more responsive at first glance. I will do some programming this week and let you know if the problem emerges. thanks for your time. 10:04:57 stassats`, memo from Shaftoe: I've worked with it some more and it actually doesn't solve the problem. following function (defun (file) (sb-posix:stat file)) has compilation wall clock time of 5 seconds, even though the slime buffer announces a compilation time of [0.08 secs] 10:05:05 ok. hold on . 10:05:50 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:59 ugh, i have conflicts. because i commented out something. 10:06:05 how do i throw away my changes with cvs? 10:06:30 cvs up -dP -C 10:06:58 that does sometimes not work reliably for me, though, try cvs diff after that to make sure 10:08:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 10:08:53 something is messed up. what's a command line to re-clone all of slime? 10:09:29 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:38 to checkout anew? Look at the website 10:09:41 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-215.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:10:03 minion: memo for Shaftoe: too bad i still can't reproduce it myself. I can only help by looking at *slime-events* and profiling results 10:10:04 Remembered. I'll tell Shaftoe when he/she/it next speaks. 10:10:33 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:11:06 what was his problem? 10:11:44 slow compilation notes displaying on remote lisp and with tramp 10:12:23 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 10:12:45 minion: memo for Shaftoe: try also setting slime-warn-when-possibly-tricked-by-M-. to NIL with that patch still applied 10:12:46 Remembered. I'll tell Shaftoe when he/she/it next speaks. 10:12:59 tcr: i get odd behavior. 10:13:36 tcr: if i have (unless ... [method-name object arg1 arg2.... 10:13:41 i put point after the [ 10:13:46 i see (unless .... in the mode-line. 10:13:53 not mode, line, minibuffer. 10:13:57 l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 10:14:02 maybe the .swank.lisp is wrong? 10:14:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96741 10:14:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96741#1 10:14:42 i changed it. 10:15:47 now ordinary function docs don't work anymore. 10:15:48 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-215.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:07 what does M-: (slime-parse-form-upto-point) return now? 10:16:50 ("define-method" "hit" "agent" ("&optional" "object") ("" swank::%cursor-marker%)) 10:16:57 i.e. the containing form 10:17:01 that's good because it means that the problem moved from the Emacs side to the CL side 10:17:02 that's the previous line of code 10:18:39 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:32 what does clon:method-arglist do? 10:21:44 it looks up whatever the last lambda list was declared for the method-name it's passed. 10:21:46 hold on. 10:22:49 how does it differentiate between arglist of (), and arglist-not-available? 10:22:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#2 10:23:08 it doesn't. 10:23:19 what format should my return value be? 10:23:26 just the list (a b &rest foo) 10:24:44 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:25:39 ok, what data type is exactly being passed? a symbol? 10:27:15 yes a symbol, the return value should be a lambda-list yes 10:27:31 in case the arglist is not available, you can return :not-available 10:27:36 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:28:00 and use (with-available-arglist (dto-method-arglist) (funcall (intern ...) operator-form) ...body...) instead of the LET 10:30:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#3 10:30:46 does this look right? 10:31:13 dm9 [~2f81fbb9@gateway/web/freenode/x-gwnnvqxilkohyxet] has joined #lisp 10:31:34 hm no actually my advice regarding with-available-arglist was ill-advised 10:32:01 ok 10:33:29 placing it into .swank.lisp may not be possible 10:33:34 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-215.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:33:44 try to let it out there, and rather load it into your CL after slime got up 10:33:58 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:34:07 do i need to be in-package swank? 10:34:21 yup 10:35:06 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 10:35:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36:09 i no longer get any documentation at all. 10:36:22 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:37:58 could you paste the last few events in *slime-events*? 10:38:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#5 10:40:05 i told it to return :not-available if it couldn't find a lambda list 10:40:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#6 10:40:45 here is that code. 10:41:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:42:59 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:15 yes, see #4 10:44:23 you did not actually use the definition I pasted 10:46:22 which definition? 10:46:33 the one in the mailing list? 10:46:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#4 10:47:18 oh, i didn't notice this. i'm sorry i've been coming in and out of the room. 10:48:33 xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.140.124] has joined #lisp 10:48:37 hopefully it'll work :-) 10:49:27 tcr: restarted sbcl and slime , how should I run that (defmethod? by slime-eval-last-sexp? how do i make sure it's run in that package? should i put it in its own file and load it? 10:50:16 neither one works. 10:50:29 i still get the containing form, the (when . 10:51:01 benbos67 [~benbos67@CPE-124-186-84-162.lns9.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 tcr: a reader macro is used to turn [foo bar baz] into something else. i don't think swank is seeing the [foo for what they are perhaps? 10:51:12 Just place it in a buffer (e.g M-x slime-scratch), and put a (in-package :swank) above it; slime searches backwards for (in-package ...) form and uses that as *package* 10:51:14 -!- jao [~jao@83.50.65.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:51:58 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.74.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:52:37 I suggest you trace clon:method-arglist, you'll see what input you get from Slime 10:53:07 -!- benbos67 [~benbos67@CPE-124-186-84-162.lns9.woo.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 10:53:18 (format t "TEST ~S" (list operator-form argument-forms)) 10:53:29 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnd182.ugent.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:53:45 tcr: ot 10:54:00 tcr: operator-form is not a symbol, it's a whole big fat (when or (let form 10:54:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:54:40 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:54:45 so that's being passed to clon:method-arglist 10:55:47 I think you're confused on what you're thinging 10:55:52 seeing 10:56:03 remember that you're outputting (list operator-form argument-forms) 10:56:16 the CAR of the list you see being output should be a symbol 10:56:58 Really, trace clon:method-arglist; you can do that by C-c C-t 10:57:02 sorry. yes. it is a symbol. just not the one point is on. 10:58:01 tcr: the system isn't parsing/recognizing the foo in [foo 10:58:25 tcr: if i have (when ........ [foo bar]) 10:58:29 and put point on foo 10:58:30 if M-: (slime-parse-form-upto-point) shows (foo ...) it does 10:58:50 all that says is that your method-arglist returns :not-available where it perhaps shouldn't 10:58:57 I think it may be a package-related problem 10:59:03 ("define-method" "hit" "agent" ("&optional" "object") ("play-sample" "self" "\"ouch\"") ("" swank::%cursor-marker%)) 10:59:13 this is what M-: (slime-parse.... shows 10:59:17 Trace clon:method-arglist :-) 10:59:38 i did. it's revealing that the symbol foo is never passed. 11:00:05 I don't see foo in that result of slime-parse-form-upto-point 11:00:46 that's the bug i am reporting to you. 11:01:02 hefner: poke? 11:01:06 pock 11:01:32 tcr: cursor on the F in "[foo" 11:01:32 dto: ... Could you paste the source form and where your cursor is, and then result of slime-parse-form-upto-point at that cursor position? 11:01:40 the whole toplevel form 11:01:42 hefner: do you have the scaffolding you used for laser spigot available somewhere? I'm especially interested in the "built with ECL on linux, deployed on Windows" part 11:03:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#7 tcr 11:03:38 benbos67 [~benbos67@CPE-124-186-84-162.lns9.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:04:28 mathrick: No, I haven't released it yet. It's just an SDL app, tracking down and rebuilding the various libraries took longer than modifying the build to work on Windows. 11:05:39 -!- benbos67 [~benbos67@CPE-124-186-84-162.lns9.woo.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 11:06:27 dto: M-:(format "%S" (slime-parse-form-upto-point)) 11:06:41 dto: then copy the unabbreviated form from *Messages* 11:07:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96742#8 11:09:05 if i move point to after "self" i get this 11:09:10 "(\"define-method\" \"move\" \"agent\" (\"&optional\" \"direction\") (\"unless\" \"\" (\"let\" ((\"phase\" (\"field-value\" \":phase-number\" \"*world*\")) (\"dir\" (\"or\" \"direction\" \"\"))) (\"unless\" (\"=\" \"\" \"phase\") (\"setf\" \"\" \"phase\") (\"aim\" \"self\" swank::%cursor-marker%)))))" 11:09:16 shit, sorry 11:09:27 cut and pasted the text instead of the URL 11:10:06 i hope we can get this working. it'll really improve the usability of my libraries. 11:10:27 ok that looks like a bug indeed 11:10:48 brb (10min) 11:10:52 ok 11:12:20 -!- sid_ [~sid@192.163.20.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:12:37 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:21:41 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 11:24:32 -!- devslashnull [~james@dyn-172.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 11:27:03 nikodemus: T 11:28:02 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:29:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:31:03 if I want to play with *low* level from SBCL, can I use define-assembly-routine? 11:32:04 dto: it works for me 11:32:46 dto: In the string you pasted into the channel, it's right, too 11:32:54 dto: but the string you pasted to lisppaste, it's incorrect 11:33:17 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:34:18 tcr: thy are from 2 different positions of point. 11:35:05 I put point anywhere after [ and in the minibuffer I see the forms that are a line or few back, not the arglist. 11:35:24 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1] 11:37:27 my function is getting called with symbols that are several lines back from where point is. 11:38:19 whether point is immediately after the [ or a few spaces/words later 11:38:55 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:40:10 is AIM fboundp? 11:40:37 nope. 11:40:53 well 11:40:58 that can't work then :-) 11:41:03 what is it? 11:41:37 how does it not being fboundp prevent slime passing it to my functino? 11:41:50 [foo bar arg1 arg2... 11:41:58 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:42:03 becomes (clon:send nil :foo bar arg1 arg2.... or something like that 11:42:06 some higher-level function filters based on fboundp 11:42:09 via reader macros. 11:42:25 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:43:06 tcr: what's the workaround 11:43:07 ? 11:43:07 well, I suggest you locally modify valid-operator-symbol-p in swank-arglists.lisp 11:43:28 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:27 as in , edit my copy of swank-arglists.lisp and see if it works? or redefine the functino? 11:44:32 function :) 11:44:55 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:12 does not matter 11:46:08 you should probably add something like (string= (package-name (symbol-package symbol)) :clone) to the OR 11:46:35 but that will fail on uninterned symbols, so you have to check for symbol-package whether it returns nil 11:47:12 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:47:42 -!- jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:47:46 jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:19 but it won't generally be in package :clon. . . it'll be wherever. i can think of another test. hold on 11:48:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:51 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-205-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 11:49:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-205-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:47 faux` [~user@194-17-166-212-no35.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:30 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:55:48 -!- faux [~user@static-213-115-37-226.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:39 faux`` [~user@static-213-115-37-226.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:56:40 tcr: partially working. 11:56:46 tcr: it pulls the lambda list 11:57:08 i re-defunned valid-operator-symbol-p 11:57:51 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 11:58:31 -!- faux` [~user@194-17-166-212-no35.business.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:34 -!- faux`` [~user@static-213-115-37-226.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:37 faux`` [~user@194-17-166-212-no35.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 12:00:56 -!- dm9 [~2f81fbb9@gateway/web/freenode/x-gwnnvqxilkohyxet] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:04:07 -!- faux`` [~user@194-17-166-212-no35.business.telia.com] has left #lisp 12:04:39 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:05:12 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:11 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:08:32 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:11:12 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:06 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:15:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pajoxqfltlbzwbpp] has left #lisp 12:15:39 ok now i broke it again 12:20:06 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:15 tcr: i've got to take a break. i'll be around 12:22:26 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:23:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:26:10 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.232] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:27:30 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:47 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:29:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:29:50 I wonder if there is anything in BitC that prevents ABI compatibility with C. 12:30:30 Hello, 12:31:16 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-27-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:09 I've used save-lisp-and-die but still I cant run my binary file. I have "component not found" error: 12:32:13 mrSpec pasted "clsql-mysql error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96747 12:32:28 Could you tell me what is wrong? 12:32:59 mrSpec: cl-mysql.asd isn't anywhere in your asdf:*central-registry*, perhaps. 12:33:05 sorry, clsql-mysql.asd 12:33:36 ok, but It is binary file isnt it? I'd like to send it to someone who doesnt have sbcl 12:33:43 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-68-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:34:30 mrSpec: did you load clsql-mysql before saving your image? 12:35:08 hmm I did load clsql 12:35:13 but not clsql-mysql.... 12:35:48 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:36:47 that might help 12:37:01 mrSpec: do you know about buildapp? would it help with what you're trying to do? 12:37:45 Hm I havent used it, I use just (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "mbank" :executable t :toplevel 'main) 12:38:12 mrSpec: buildapp can help automate that a bit from the command-line 12:38:40 ok, I'll read about it :) 12:38:48 e.g.: buildapp --output mbank --load-system mbank --load-system clsql-mysql --entry main 12:42:33 I'm downloading it, thanks 12:43:59 deepfire: I don't think so 12:44:32 given how C ABI is basically "the main ABI unless the program is written in Fortran" 12:45:06 (different calling conventions not withstanding, given that it isn't that hard to convert between them - again as long as the rest follow C ABI) 12:45:18 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:45:32 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:46:10 C has things to say about how structs and unions are laid out. 12:46:21 Which makes it hard to tag things transparently, for example. 12:46:21 hello 12:48:17 Zhivago: which at least for some systems are described in platform ABI document... Unless you want to pack them differently 12:49:22 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:50:53 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:52:28 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:55:41 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:05 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:07:19 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-180-247.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 13:09:55 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-215.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11:58 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 13:12:16 yay for destructive ops on literals in LET 13:12:41 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:12:49 *p_l* got happy when he had seen disassembly 13:13:11 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CLSQL 5.0.5, ECL 10.3.1, SBCL 1.0.36 13:15:03 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 13:17:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 ave kiuma :) 13:21:17 hola fe[nl]ix 13:21:28 how are you ? 13:22:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:22:57 edeion [~ed@eccica.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:19 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 13:24:33 -!- nickjd [nickjd@118x236x115x71.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:25:22 kiuma: excellent 13:26:03 I envy you :/ 13:29:50 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:49 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:33 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:35 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:33:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:14 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:39:16 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 13:41:11 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:34 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:37 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:42:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:43:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.100.139] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:51 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:47:19 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:50:31 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:53:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:55:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 13:55:59 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:24 robewald [~robert@23.79-161-0.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:26 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-21-92-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:00:37 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:00:37 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:00:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-88-15.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:01:01 fihi09`` [~user@pool-96-224-45-167.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:57 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:15 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 14:02:51 can I configure fuzzy completion to complete to the first match automatically when hit TAB? 14:03:18 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:03:22 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:04:11 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:34 -!- fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-45-167.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:06:51 leo2007: it does that already, you just keep typing 14:07:08 (w-o-f( 14:09:55 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-116-202-61.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:02 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:26 so I have this function that works fine if i print the results to stdout but I want push them to a list and return the list but that is not working 14:10:26 http://dpaste.com/174718/ 14:10:31 thats the function 14:10:38 i know i must be missing something small 14:11:07 or is it cause the function is recursive? 14:11:23 abugosh1 [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:25 PuffTheMagic: not sure what you're doing exactly, but maybe it is because you need collect, instead of do. Or (more likely) do (push (find-git-dirs p) git-dirs) 14:12:26 PuffTheMagic: push is run only when (fad:directory-exists-p path) is NIL 14:12:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:12:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.100.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:22 is that what you intend? 14:13:26 yeah 14:13:27 nickjd [nickjd@118x236x153x137.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:13:58 if i replace (push (directory-namestring path) git-dirs) with (print (directory-namestring path)) 14:14:02 i see what I need 14:14:20 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-173-206.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:14:58 you pass the function a directory and it looks for folders with a .git directory in them 14:15:18 note related to the problem, but your LOOP could be replaced with (mapc #'find-git-dirs (fad:list-directory path)) 14:15:25 s/note/not/ 14:15:56 -!- abugosh1 [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:05 stassats`: thanks... i quite the CL noob 14:16:16 PuffTheMagic: you need to store the results of (find-git-dirs p) in order to get some results. Not that hard though :) (you may have more luck with append, instead of collect btw 14:16:39 why can I use a list and push? 14:17:32 PuffTheMagic: can you show the path you're passing to that function? 14:17:45 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:52 because it works for me fine: (find-git-dirs ".git/config") => (".git/") 14:18:20 Axioplas1_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 14:18:41 mgr_ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 codemonk1yx [~codemonke@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:57 p8m_ [~dmm@mattli.name] has joined #lisp 14:19:00 nullman` [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:00 the path is sorta arbitrary 14:19:02 dym_ [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 14:19:08 its just a dir with some symlinks in it 14:19:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:19:09 to other dirs 14:19:09 hc_e_ [~hc@salato.hcesperer.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:12 jyujin_ [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:15 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:19:16 Tordek_ [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fdkyjkauvcugfsam] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 yacin_ [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 14:19:28 sytse_ [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 14:20:11 dto: how is it going? 14:20:24 but the issue does seem to be because of the recursion 14:20:41 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:20:45 vezult [~work-davi@75-145-242-25-spotsylvania.va.richmond.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:57 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:00 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 snafuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:43 oh, i didn't look at the first leg of the if 14:21:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:34 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-254.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 -!- jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:02 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fkhejeivgmdrylbz] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- codemonkeyx [~codemonke@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattli.name] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- hc_e [~hc@pdpc/supporter/active/hc-e] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:03 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:24:04 -!- snafuchs is now known as antifuchs 14:24:54 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:24 stassats pasted "find-git-dirs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96753 14:25:25 im gonna have to write this better 14:25:25 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 PuffTheMagic: see the paste 14:25:48 thanks 14:26:08 I'm attempting to require run a script which fails when attempting to require lispbuilder-regx with the message: Don't know how to REQUIRE LISPBUILDER-REGEX 14:26:33 I've got the package installed, and other packages I've installed don't fail on require 14:26:34 stassats`: thanks 14:26:38 that works 14:26:53 The first part of the script is here: http://dpaste.org/6wqR/ 14:27:10 I'm running sbcl 1.0.18 on debian 14:27:10 had a feeling i should have been using walk-directory all along 14:27:14 Any suggestions? 14:28:09 vezult: Is common-lisp-controller involved anywhere in this mess? 14:28:33 maybe stupid question but: would a good compiler be able to see that in the expressions: A = B * B', X = A * a, is the same as X = B * B' * a, and hence optimize away A? 14:28:34 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:38 vezult: do you have lispbuilder-regex.asd where asdf:*central-registry* can reach it? 14:28:41 (And as for suggestions, is there a lispbuilder-regex.asd anywhere useful?) 14:29:29 hypno: Only if the hardware supports a three-argument-multiply command. 14:29:34 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:29:59 hypno: That said, you may get the -other- intermediate product on hardware with only a two-argument-multiply. 14:30:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xklmgowsmdilqaor] has joined #lisp 14:30:33 but you don't need to store A 14:30:35 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:42 It seems that all my threads are stuck in #1 0x00000000004131ff in sig_stop_for_gc_handler 14:30:58 nyef: ah, of course, didn't think of the hardware, heh. thanks. 14:31:02 tcr: All of them, or all but two of them? 14:31:04 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:31:32 hypno: Now, the intermediate result will at least have -some- location, but it may not stick around after the second multiply. 14:31:44 how can I change encoding? I got (SB-IMPL::ENCODING-ERROR :ASCII :S 14:32:09 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 mrSpec: encoding of what? 14:32:11 nyef: all ~60 14:32:22 nyef: yeah. so, ignoring hardware, a good compiler should essentially be able to inline the expression for A then. 14:32:26 tcr: Actually, scratch that, I can think of a scenario where one or even no threads remain that aren't waiting there. 14:32:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:03 tcr: So, if only one isn't, then the one that isn't is supposed to be -running- the GC. And if none are, then the thread that called for the GC got killed. 14:33:13 stassats`: I dont know... http://paste.lisp.org/display/96750 14:33:14 tcr: -Or- there's a race condition involving stop-for-gc. 14:33:31 It's due to C-c C-c 14:33:43 Ah. 14:34:05 ... File a bug. 14:34:12 I have this encoding error only when run program from cron :/ 14:34:39 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-167-152.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:53 Hrm... Bet we could make this happen without SLIME. 14:34:54 perhaps it's not started with the right LANG 14:35:02 nyef: the lispbuilder-regex asd is here: http://dpaste.org/B7GX/ 14:35:17 It's an interrupt-thread/stop-for-gc interaction, after all. 14:36:00 vezult: Yeah, we don't need to see it, we need to know that it exists, and that where it exists is visible to ASDF. 14:36:08 -!- antoszka_ is now known as antoszka 14:36:08 vezult: i doubt asdf can find it on dpaste.org, do you have it somewhere on your disc? 14:36:27 nyef: can I use DEFINE-ASSEMBLY-ROUTINE in my own code (in SBCL-specific parts) without problems? I'd especially like to try to make it a pinned object so it wouldn't move around... 14:36:28 *vezult* grins 14:36:54 p_l: I would be surprised if you could. 14:36:57 stassats`, yes.../usr/lib/sbcl/site-systems/lispbuilder-regex/lispbuilder-regex.asd 14:37:40 nyef: use define-assembly-routine or pin the resulting assembly to single location? 14:37:42 p_l: The "done thing" is to allocate-static-vector, but I'm of the opinion that -that's- also brain-damaged. 14:38:02 or is there another interface to use SBCL's assembler? 14:38:14 Have a look at the alien-callback machinery. 14:38:18 -!- sytse_ is now known as sytse 14:38:21 allocate-static-vector you say... I'll look at alien 14:38:26 /usr/lib/sbcl/ seems to the the lisp home dir. Appologies in advance for my lisp ignorance, I'm a lisp newb attempting to pick up someone else's project. 14:38:47 most threads are in 4: SB-THREAD::HANDLE-THREAD-EXIT 14:39:01 tcr: OSX? 14:39:18 -!- nickjd [nickjd@118x236x153x137.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:27 nickjd [nickjd@118x236x153x137.ap118.gyao.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:39:41 nope linux x86-64 14:39:46 8core, though 14:39:47 vezult: for asdf being able to load something, .asd file of that something should be in one of the directories in asdf:*central-registry*, usually there's one directory with a bunch of symlinks to .asd files 14:40:02 Hrm. Yeah, definitely a race condition. 14:40:24 nyef: btw, had anyone tried shadowing pthread's symbols to get info on foreign threads? 14:40:39 stassats`, ok, I'll see if I can find anything like that. 14:40:42 No idea. Isn't that a bit dangerous? 14:40:57 nyef: nope, unless the library does quite illegal things 14:41:15 (or someone was an idiot and compiled pthreads statically into library 14:41:16 ) 14:41:33 or used thread-related syscalls directly 14:42:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-116-202-61.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:43:01 but as long as it normally links to pthreads, you can shadow pthreads, investigate the arguments, then pass the call further 14:43:32 it's a little program-interpreter specific (to use ELF terminology), but completely workable 14:44:05 And for the next question... why would we want to? 14:45:03 nyef: I've read in SBCL manual/todo/somewhere, that it might have problems related to sigmasks in foreign threads, because it doesn't know about them etc. 14:45:10 * fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 7016(tid 140737276320080): 14:45:10 Trapping to run pending handler while GC in progress. 14:45:41 this came without C-c C-c 14:45:42 tcr: Is that in your output history? 14:45:47 inferior-lisp 14:45:52 Hmm. 14:45:52 I'm in ldb right now 14:45:56 nyef: this way, your lisp image know about what threads there are, since no sane library will actually call clone() directly unless you use certain ones that don't care about POSIX 14:46:43 tcr pasted "ldb backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754 14:47:04 how can I resolve those foreign calls? 14:47:47 Do you have src/runtime/sbcl.nm on hand? 14:48:07 attach gdb? 14:48:22 (I guess you could also regenerate it from the executable.) 14:49:16 But yeah, I see something high up in a shared library, possibly the vDSO, then three addresses in the runtime. 14:49:34 And yet more evidence that LDB is embarrassingly lame. 14:50:26 yup I have 14:50:36 well, afk 14:51:15 Looking up the closest address less-than-or-equal-to the ra in the backtrace in sbcl.nm will tell you what function it's in. 14:51:32 (Yes, this is non-optimal, but it works.) 14:52:38 .nm is not sorted? 14:52:45 Might not be. 14:52:58 Or might be sorted in some strange order. 14:53:06 Like alphabetic. 14:53:26 Or by symbol name hash value. 14:54:06 0000000000411600 T interrupt_handler_pending_p 14:54:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:54:33 That seems awful long... 14:54:59 00000000004132d0 T interrupt_handle_pending 14:55:28 0000000000410d40 T corruption_warning_and_maybe_lose 14:56:19 -!- Tonijz [~Tonijz@85.254.194.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:19 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:30 Something seems wrong about that. 14:58:07 stassats`: I've checked this, cron locale are OK. Do you have any other idea what's wrong? 14:58:15 "that"? interrupt_handle_pending does contain the lose with the message I saw 14:58:33 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:50 mrSpec: what is sb-impl::*default-external-format* under cron? 14:58:51 Ah, it's being odd with the arrangement of code in the object file and with private symbol. 14:58:58 private symbols. 14:59:24 stassats`: I'll check this 14:59:36 So, interrupt_handler_pending_p + 0x19a... 15:00:08 6b0 + 19a = 84a? 15:00:39 I get low_level_handle_now_handler, by dead reckoning within an objdump --disassemble of interrupt.o. 15:01:07 Which is static, and explains why it doesn't show in sbcl.nm. 15:02:25 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:35 So, by inspection, you probably hit a pending-interrupt trap somehow while... gc is actually in progress? 15:04:54 Actually, can you obtain the current value of GC_PENDING? 15:04:58 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:02 sure if you tell me how :-) 15:05:45 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:06:12 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 entropax [~entropi@192.55.55.37] has joined #lisp 15:08:39 Heh. It's "print *GC-PENDING*". 15:08:52 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09:02 Though, I'm not sure the layout is correct. 15:09:37 value: 0x00000052: 15:09:41 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:09:46 Yeah, that's why I'm confused. 15:09:53 (mapcar #'car '(*te* *st*)) can anybody hint me why this does not work? both *te* and *st* contain lists.. 15:09:54 stassats`: sorry for the delay. I still have to look in the fuzzy completion buffer to check if the first one is the right one. If it is put in the buffer then I don't need to move my eyes that much. 15:09:57 if I have pathA = "/foo1/foo2" and pathB = "/foo1/foo2/foo3/bar", is there some magic function that will give me back "/foo3/bar"? 15:10:39 leo2007: but you have two eyes, don't you? one for the buffer, one for completion 15:10:41 PuffTheMagic: enough-namestring? 15:11:08 udzinari: Because... '(*te* *st*) doesn't evaluate to what you think it does? 15:11:38 nyef: I'd kill the process now for not knowing how to proceed 15:11:50 udzinari: QUOTE and LIST are not the same 15:11:59 tcr: Probably a good idea, though knowing how to get back into this state would be nice. 15:12:06 stassats`: my emacs split horizontally (cf C-x 3) and so the distance could be large. 15:12:29 nyef: It's sort of repeatable, for me anyway, on a remote machine with lots of cores 15:12:41 nyef, jdz ty got it 15:12:42 and involving some badass multi-threading tests 15:13:15 -!- edeion [~ed@eccica.inria.fr] has left #lisp 15:13:16 You could be writing at the bottom of the screen where the completion is near the top. 15:13:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Home, sweet home, here I come.] 15:15:04 as the backtrace involved FORMAT, perhaps I should try to run this on the terminal rather than on Slime 15:16:19 Let me put it another way. I think it would be nice if the completion is immediately updated on the fly. 15:16:28 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xklmgowsmdilqaor] has left #lisp 15:18:17 Ugh. gc-pending is per-thread, isn't it? 15:18:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:14 WARNING: Starting a select without a timeout while interrupts are disabled. 15:19:30 I get that now trying it on the terminal rather than in Slime 15:20:18 What it's actually warning about is that you won't be able to interrupt the select, it will have to return "normally", that is by an fd being ready. 15:20:19 jollygood [~jollygood@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 15:21:47 yeah I know why because I call break in a handler via HANDLER-BIND on SB-EXT:TIMEOUT 15:23:34 and again in ldb 15:24:03 Hrm... 15:24:16 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 15:25:40 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:25:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-88-15.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:28:47 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 15:32:55 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 15:38:03 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ciwlpfmirbniihyb] has joined #lisp 15:38:07 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:39:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:40:08 tcr annotated #96754 "another ldb" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754#1 15:40:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:43:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 15:46:20 Phoodus [~foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:23 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 15:47:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:53:43 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-28-114-127.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:58:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-254.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:58:58 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:54 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:43 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 16:02:09 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-28-114-127.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:17 mega1 [~quassel@3e70d2d8.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:04:40 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:05:09 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:07:52 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:46 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:10:35 HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:10:55 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:04 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:12:14 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:21 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 16:12:31 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:15 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.71] has quit [Quit: off] 16:13:22 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:08 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-173-206.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:44 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:20:33 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:20:56 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 16:21:03 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:11 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:40 tcr annotated #96754 "attched gdb to the process in ldb" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754#2 16:21:56 -!- yates [~yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:18 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.242] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:24:38 nyef: are destructive operators on literals in LET in anyway defined in SBCL, or is it coincidence that I got beautiful persistent storage inside function? :D 16:24:50 (I know that the spec makes it undefined) 16:25:11 p_l: I would strongly suggest that you treat it as undefined. 16:25:32 nyef: Yes, I know, but the disassembly made me smile :-) 16:26:00 Because I rather imagine that the SBCL team would happily mark certain heap pages as being truly read-only, and stuff literal objects there. 16:26:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:26:34 -!- robewald [~robert@23.79-161-0.customer.lyse.net] has left #lisp 16:26:57 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 nyef: on x86-64, (defun x () (let ((test #*000000000000000)) (some code doing operations on test))) gives me RIP-relative addressed object some bytes before start of function code. Not that I condone such code, but it looked an interesting thing to do (though I'd rather do that through explicit interface instead of some hack) 16:28:45 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-30-164-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:29:40 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:42 there is this thing called closure 16:30:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 16:30:16 stassats`: I know, I know. I guess I spent too much time lately in low level (and I have assignment in assembly to write today) 16:30:41 drewc: hi 16:32:12 p_l: those object can be coalesced, meaning that even though you *think* you're modifying your "persistent" object, that object might actually be shared by other functions as well 16:32:35 p_l: if you want to do the same thing sanely, use LOAD-TIME-VALUE 16:32:40 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:41 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:14 milanj [~milan@109.93.194.166] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:45 nikodemus: I stumbled upon it completely by mistake, by using #* in place of (make-array ...) 16:35:12 somehow I don't recall any tutorial etc. I've read before that mentioned such behaviour (but my memory is spotty) 16:35:21 hi nikodemus! nyef and me are trying to track down http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754 16:35:28 actually it's more nyef than me :-) 16:35:39 clhs signal 16:35:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_signal.htm 16:35:56 nikodemus: ignore #1 16:36:15 Does *break-on-signals* trump ignore-errors? 16:36:49 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-83-19.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:37:23 Looks like it's at least supposed to. 16:37:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-30-164-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:10 tcr: is that reproducible? what platform? 16:44:23 nikodemus: It's reproducible, and nasty. 16:44:43 8core x86-64 on linux 16:44:54 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 16:45:03 nikodemus: I'll give you a hint: it's possible to have *gc-pending* be :IN-PROGRESS after leaving SUB-GC. 16:45:52 hm. it's too long since i've been in the area. i don't remember :in-progress, only T and NIL 16:46:46 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:48:07 nikodemus: you rang last night? 16:48:12 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:48:28 dlowe: local-time docs on the web seem pretty out of date 16:48:58 It's also happening when only one thread is happening, so I don't believe it's due to thread synchronization. 16:49:09 maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has joined #lisp 16:49:16 does that mean the clbuild/git version is in flux, or does it just mean the docs are out of date? 16:49:30 e9c546b14771ebe96447c3920a75e9e580f9075f is the commit it came from 16:49:37 nikodemus: sigh. sorry about that. Lendvai does almost all the development on it and he doesn't believe in docs. I'll update them soon 16:49:41 :) 16:49:43 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:10 i don't see a clear comment as to why it was needed -- no new test-cases added along with it 16:51:36 -!- maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:45 ;; Now, if GET-MUTEX did not cons, that would be enough. 16:53:20 i why does GET-MUTEX cons? 16:55:16 hey p_l 16:55:17 drewc, memo from wgl: Looking for recommendations for setting gateway, etc in creating xen. 16:55:17 drewc, memo from p_l: what are the chances for changes to CLiki? Cause I was pondering spending some time over a replacement engine (and data migration tool) during holdays and I'm wondering if there was a chance to see it actually powering CLiki (it might get used by me for something different) 16:56:04 Failure: threads.impure.lisp / (CONDITION-VARIABLE WAIT-MULTIPLE) 16:56:13 p_l: start with ucliki if that's your plan... i will not be replacing the live cliki with something that has not been 'proven'. 16:56:32 that's with nikodemus' lost-wakeup patch and using queue as token in condition-notify 16:56:39 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:57:04 I'll later try to see if I'll get it without that patch, too 16:57:27 p_l: http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/ucliki.tar.gz <----- the source that currently runs the ALU wiki 16:57:44 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:47 tcr: are you throwing interrupts around? 16:58:08 to trigger the GC issue, that is 16:58:43 there's a big with-timeout around my test case in case it hangs 16:58:58 and it does hang from time to time, so yes an interrupt may be involved 16:59:29 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:02:00 Does anyone have an example of postmodern :create-table using a :foreign-key that references a group of columns? 17:02:17 tcr annotated #96754 "*break-on-signals* t around SUB-GC" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754#3 17:02:18 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 tcr: #define QSHOW_SIGNALS 1 is the next step 17:05:11 for wait-multiple? 17:05:21 for the GC 17:05:30 ok 17:06:08 we found out that in the ldb as you see in annot#2, *GC-PENDING* is the unbound marker 17:07:50 i don't see that 17:07:53 where? 17:08:50 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:52 it's not part of the paste hence I'm telling you 17:09:17 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:09:21 Yeah, *gc-pending* is only bound once per thread, and only ever bound thread-local. 17:09:23 ok. i'm not really feeling up to debugging this telepathically right now, however :) 17:09:35 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:09:38 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 17:09:50 actually, i need to be attacking paperwork :/ 17:10:22 but, "The value -4 is not of type (MOD 1152921504606846973)" looks like a fairly typical error for concurrent accesses in an unsychonized hash table 17:11:26 it happens during the extent of sub-gc 17:11:56 could be a finalizer or a hook 17:12:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:25 oh, wait, not anymore 17:12:30 they are now in post-gc 17:13:20 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 17:13:42 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:46 getting lots of 46912508786400 heap WP violation? fault_addr=5fbe30, page_index=1531 during build of sbcl itself 17:13:51 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 17:14:10 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70d2d8.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:36 Isn't mega1 usually in charge of GC and interrupt stability? 17:14:41 that's normal 17:14:54 mega1 has run away 17:14:56 (iirc) 17:15:37 lp 542894 17:15:37 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/542894 17:16:36 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cfc3.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 that type-error's expected type matches *GC-RUN-TIME* -- maybe the clock was running backwards? .... 17:17:13 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 17:17:26 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:17:40 What's the right thing to do when a condition is signalled from within sub-gc anyway? 17:17:43 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:45 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:49 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 17:18:58 (I wouldn't expect those "heap WP violation" messages) 17:19:14 With QSHOW_SIGNALS? 17:19:14 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 oh, maybe 17:19:46 fair enough 17:19:57 Xof: gencgc_handle_wp_violation likes to make noise for harmless cases as well 17:20:26 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75487d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 nyef: we don't want any conditions signalled while the world is stopped, pretty much 17:20:48 This can happen even before the world is stopped, in theory. 17:21:19 Consider UNSAFE-CLEAR-ROOTS? 17:21:41 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-229-73.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:21:59 yeah. it's more like we don't want conditions while holding on to the GC lock 17:22:09 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:11 incidentally, nikodemus, congratulations on being a consultor internacionai 17:22:22 or whatever the correct singular is of http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.region.brazil/1657 17:22:38 also, if someone had told me that I was in the acknowledgments of "Coders at Work" I'd have bought a copy earlier than now :-) 17:25:10 So, if you have a defun in a progn (preserving toplevelness), and you M-. to find the definition, does current slime go to the progn or the actual defun? 17:25:23 tcr annotated #96754 "again the break during SUB-GC, now with QSHOW_SIGNALS" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96754#4 17:25:57 nyef: progn, last time i checked 17:26:21 in sbcl, that is 17:26:23 nyef: to the progn, changing that in sbcl is not that difficult 17:26:25 Mmm... Came up with progn for me as well, but I don't update slime very often. 17:26:45 it's entirely sbcl business 17:27:02 does it even if you have higher debug? 17:27:29 yes, see code/source-location.lisp, it takes the CAR of the PATH 17:27:37 bah 17:27:46 indeed 17:27:50 Besides, I'm not about to recompile SBCL with higher debug. 17:28:26 regarding the paste: scroll until you see the ---------; that's when the test case ended, it seems it's now trying to kill all spawned threads due to a timeout 17:28:42 (let ((run-time (- (get-internal-run-time) start-time))) 17:28:42 (when (plusp run-time) 17:28:42 (incf *gc-run-time* run-time)))) 17:29:07 can you try with that instead of current epoch setting code? 17:29:43 Xof: how did you run across that? 17:29:53 Yeah, that's the form that has to be failing in this case. 17:30:02 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has joined #lisp 17:30:14 seems like the interrupts with terminate-threads are slowly triggered in while the gc is run? 17:30:20 Still, this entire thing seems fragile, somehow. 17:30:33 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:31:20 nikodemus: reddit/lisp 17:31:29 I don't know how Rainer ran across it 17:31:36 maybe he has some frightening lisp-based AI 17:31:42 slurping the entire internet 17:31:44 tcr: you're using TERMINATE-THREAD? 17:31:54 feeeh 17:32:21 while i agree that it should not break SUB-GC, it is never going to be robust. ever 17:32:37 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:47 -!- Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:47 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 17:33:09 nikodemus: Not the point. Knowing what we know now, we could probably trip things up in a number of other places in sub-gc. 17:33:10 it's in case a test case hangs, there's a with-timeout 10.0, and a handler which kills all childs spawned during the test 17:33:25 should I chanage the whole (let ((start-time with your new code? 17:34:19 paines [~user@p57BA09D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:28 Hi. 17:34:36 replace the (incf *gc-run-time* (- (get-internal-run-time) start-time))) with the paste 17:34:58 ok, I'll patch sub-gc in the running image though instead of compiling sbcl anew 17:35:12 that's how I placed the *break-on-signals* anyway, so seems to work 17:36:14 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:36:52 tcr: not 100% 17:37:04 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:37:11 you need to also (setf (symbol-value 'sub-gc) #'sub-gc) -- IIRC 17:37:25 otherwise the C-side will call the old function, and lisp-side the new one 17:37:47 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:52 cannot hurt :-) 17:38:05 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 17:41:01 the /exiting thread messages are probably OK: that note is written after the GC no longer knows about the thread 17:41:04 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:42 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:10 hm getting memory-fault 17:42:24 on loading the script which contains the new definition for sub-gc 17:42:58 140737354061536 heap WP violation? fault_addr=2c26c8, page_index=706 ; this is surprising to me -- it's from the thread that's doing the GC while in collect_garbage 17:43:30 I'm going to bow out at this point, as I'm not about to try and tinker with GC policy. 17:43:58 ...and i need to atttend to my paperwork 17:44:04 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 but details on list/launchpad are good 17:44:54 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 well what details? 17:45:09 I'm recompiling with the new sub-gc now 17:45:26 what then? 17:46:44 Description of the failure mode (the lossage involving running handlers in gc), that it had been tracked down to a condition being raised in sub-gc being unwound from by user code, pointers to lisppaste where the traces are, etc. 17:47:27 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:28 hm gc is run in any thread? 17:47:51 detail: test cases or descriptions thereof, backtraces, QSHOW_SIGNALS logs from a few runs exhibiting the different failure modes, trying to trigger with a reduced number of threads, etc 17:47:59 Yeah, GC is run in whichever thread hits the trigger. 17:48:01 so it could be run in a thread that another thread interrupted shortly before? 17:48:46 exhibits from multiple failure modes are quite useful 17:48:59 what do you mean by that? 17:49:37 The GC run in that thread; is that a GC for the whole world, or just for that particular thread (even though the world stopped) 17:49:44 you you get slightly different backtraces or QSHOW_SIGNALS outputs form different runs, send both 17:50:01 because the commonalities and differences can mean something 17:50:38 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 17:50:45 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-dtirpuiemqupzoam] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:02 do full rebuilds for SUB-GC patching unless you have 100% verified that the runtime get the right address after you patch it 17:51:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:51:27 otherwise you cannot be sure if the failure is "real" or due to something going bad with the hotpatch 17:51:37 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:51:46 till laters 17:51:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:13 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:52:17 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:53:22 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:53:43 is there a secret to using enough-namestring? when i try using it, it only removes the first / 17:54:08 clhs enough-namestring 17:54:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 17:54:24 tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 PuffTheMagic: learn its semantics, have the right expexctations? 17:54:41 im passing it a defaults 17:54:46 -!- tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has left #lisp 17:55:02 but something isnt quite right 17:55:10 tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-229-73.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:07 tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:21 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:22 -!- tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:11 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:00:50 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.100.139] has joined #lisp 18:03:22 CL-USER 4 > (enough-namestring #P"/CogWorld-Tasks/MOT/" #P"/CogWorld-Tasks") 18:03:22 "CogWorld-Tasks/MOT/" 18:03:28 shouldnt that return MOT? 18:03:28 tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:35 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.11] has joined #lisp 18:03:56 You forgot the final slash on the second pathname. 18:04:04 -!- tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:16 didnt realize that mattered 18:04:24 does that force it to be a dir instead of a file or soemthing? 18:04:30 Precisely. 18:04:47 thanks 18:04:55 Essentially, CL believes that directories are not files, though you couldn't prove it by most implementations of probe-file. 18:05:29 bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 except in clisp 18:07:04 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.194.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:10 clisp can tell the difference? 18:07:30 (probe-file "/bin") *** - PROBE-FILE: "/bin" names a directory, not a file 18:08:16 That seems... suboptimal, somehow. 18:08:32 it sure is inconvenient 18:08:39 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 what about (probe-file "/bin/")? 18:09:01 Oh well, it's not like anyone actually uses clisp for anything other than bootstrapping SBCL anyway. ;-P 18:09:09 tcr: the same 18:09:21 cmeccawrk [~meccac@unaffiliated/flip] has joined #lisp 18:09:44 i would consider that optimal if there was cl:probe-directory 18:09:50 -!- cmeccawrk [~meccac@unaffiliated/flip] has left #lisp 18:09:58 clisp has ext:probe-directory 18:11:12 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CBB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:13 lordakinator [~Administr@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 18:12:07 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.100.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zizfddbknuyreedt] has joined #lisp 18:13:47 with the epoch patch, I haven't been able to trigger bug so far 18:13:56 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:14:16 Meh, the obvious way to check for the existence of a directory is via CL:DIRECTORY. 18:14:26 The only downside being that it doesn't actually work that way. 18:14:46 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E061.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:57 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-179-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:15:38 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:18:52 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-199-253.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 mogunus [~marco@ip-159.250.64.132.dsl.crocker.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:28 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:16 -!- paines [~user@p57BA09D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:59 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:25:10 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:58 Can I specialize a CLOS method on the value of a slot of one of the objects? 18:26:40 Not standardly. 18:27:41 milanj [~milan@93.86.189.109] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 Ah. Unfortunate. 18:28:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:14 Use a wrapper function and pass the slot value to the wrapee? 18:30:17 mogunus: you want a state pattern, basically? 18:30:26 you can change-class instead of changing the slot's value 18:30:36 rahul: yeah, I want to do one thing if "conflict" slot is true, one thing if "conflict" slot is false 18:30:48 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:55 if only there was some kind of control flow other than method selection! 18:30:59 you can have a conflicting-foo class that is a subclass 18:31:06 rahul: Okay, so, have a "conflicting-solver" subclass? 18:31:07 Xach: You mean like in smalltalk? 18:31:16 if you really want to use a method to do this dispatch 18:31:23 nyef: exactly 18:31:27 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:40 mogunus: sure. if it's something that doesn't change often, then making it a separate class is sensible 18:31:50 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:32:00 if not, you might just want to do a second dispatch after adding the value of that slot to the args 18:32:05 yeah, if I'm seriously attatched to it... meh, I'll just write a boolean function for it. an accessor is enough. 18:32:15 (Where even the boolean conditionals ifTrue:ifFalse: are defined to behave as though via method dispatch.) 18:32:34 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:33:26 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 18:33:31 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:37 spiff [~wim@247.44-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:33:45 tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has joined #lisp 18:34:40 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 18:37:12 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:16 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:39:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-199-253.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40:29 -!- spiff [~wim@247.44-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:33 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-184.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:46:04 SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:05 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 18:48:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:48:19 konr [~konrad@201.82.128.7] has joined #lisp 18:49:22 -!- SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:49:51 nyef: I don't understand why *GC-BENDING* was unbound; shouldn't it have been :in-progress at the point of that lose()? 18:50:16 SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 tcr: Again, the global value is unbound. The thread-local value is the one that matters. 18:50:40 oh ok so print does not reflect that 18:50:43 in ldb 18:50:46 Right. 18:52:50 ok now it makes sense how you came to assume the nlx in sub-gc :-) it's because we never reached the point where it sets *gc-pending* to nil 18:53:01 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:53:02 Right. 18:53:25 I knew that the thread-local value was neither NIL nor T, as that's the only way to get that lossage message. 18:53:48 And it therefore had to be :IN-PROGRESS as that was the only other value ever used. 18:54:13 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-199-253.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:54:15 SUB-GC wasn't on the call stack, therefore we were leaving SUB-GC without having set it back to NIL. 18:54:39 And that left searching for ways to leave SUB-GC without fixing *GC-PENDING*. 18:55:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:05 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:56:15 hello 18:56:17 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:21 Hello fe[nl]ix. 18:56:37 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:56:53 -!- mle is now known as mle-lucca 18:57:45 lispm [~joswig@e177144105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 Are SIMPLE-STRING elements stored boxed or unboxed? 18:58:26 hello nyef :) 18:59:00 (That is, if I displace an unsigned-byte 32 array to one, am I going to get char-codes or something with a tag?) 18:59:14 yay, NetworkManager now supports tethering to my Nokia :) 18:59:51 Congratulations. 19:00:02 (Now if my bluetooth mouse would -stay connected-...) 19:00:02 Anyone have any hints on getting the slime profiler to work under lispbox? It's asking the right questions, but is crashing with (when I try to perform a reset, for example): No methods applicable for generic function # with args NIL 19:00:34 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-184.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:00:47 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-125-91.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:15 google yielded no significant insights, but when I try slime-profile-package it asks a couple of relevant questions before dying, so it kind of knows what I'm after...? 19:02:40 what implementation? 19:03:09 -!- tali713 [~user@2001:468:1910:3c03:20c:29ff:fe9a:2772] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:12 Allegro CL Free Express, 8.1 (IIRC) for Mac 19:03:55 orm [~a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/x-kovstyturxdccfwn] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 lispbox 0.7 (in case that's what you meant) 19:04:13 that probably uses a very old version of Slime 19:04:14 slime in lispbox is a bit old 19:05:54 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:30 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 19:07:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: hometime] 19:08:14 ok. that's discouraging since it's the only lisp installation that doesn't seem to require chicken bones and voodoo to make work cross platform. 19:08:40 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:12:29 is anoyne familiar with embeddable common lisp 19:12:30 ? 19:12:46 doing backend stuff with itt 19:12:58 or can someone direct me to their irc channel 19:13:53 orm: their mailing list is pretty active 19:14:11 my inbox is spammed to hell as it is 19:14:26 but if it's what they've got, i guess iu have little choice =/ 19:14:47 thank you 19:14:58 -!- SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:15:13 orm: np:) 19:16:06 orm: i got what you need 19:16:08 Ok logged the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/544421 19:16:12 orm: let me get it 19:16:37 -!- Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:52 jao [~jao@83.50.65.250] has joined #lisp 19:16:54 i skimmed the docs, but I'm intirested in compiing it directly into my code rather than linking it, if the license allows it 19:17:01 makes things less complicated 19:17:24 orm: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ecldev/index.html 19:17:45 orm: from what I understood, of rthat you have to compile it by yourself statically, and then link to it 19:18:02 for* 19:18:08 blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. well, if it's what it takes =S 19:18:15 tcr: Thank you. 19:18:30 thanks for the link. I never saw that 19:19:04 orm: still, as LeVar says, you don't have to take my word for it. I'm just an ignorant newbie. 19:19:23 hehe, we all are 19:19:26 to some extent 19:19:56 nyef: I'm still wondering what best to do in case a test case hangs 19:21:55 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:09 if you could link directly to ECL, instead of it being a shared library, it might well go a lot faster. stupid GPL. 19:22:30 About the only thing that comes to mind is run such test cases in separate images, use with-timeout, and have the timeout handler kill the entire image. That's probably the safest thing to do. 19:22:38 That said, it's not necessarily the best thing to do. 19:23:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:10 *nyef* really doesn't deal well with multiple threads. 19:24:18 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:50 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:24:58 why do I get the feeling that ECL is not meant toi act as a scripting language? 19:25:05 aftr reading the docs 19:26:23 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:28:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-199-253.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:02 orm: first, ECL is not a language. 19:29:20 it's a lisp implimentation, i know 19:29:26 what is a 'scripting language' in this context? 19:29:38 orm: then, the difference between scripting language, and whatever language is not defined. 19:29:41 something I can use to extend an application with 19:29:55 orm: for this, ECL is perfectly adapted. 19:30:06 just finding a lack of examples 19:30:12 even in the examples folder 19:30:14 orm: its 'Embedded" feature is critical to extend an application with it. 19:30:25 Just do it, it's trivial. 19:30:34 this sounds like the kind of thing ECL would be good at. It's probably even better to use for writing applications then extending them ;) 19:30:37 orm: Yes it lacks documentation. 19:31:03 Things have been modernized recently, hence the documentation problem. It is much better now however. 19:31:16 yeah, I intend to provide the framework as compiled C++ code then have the user impliment objects and game logic in lisp 19:31:33 -!- jollygood [~jollygood@129.71.215.161] has quit [Quit: jollygood] 19:31:53 crap, gtg 19:32:04 *orm* makes like a tree and gets outta here. 19:32:10 orm: leave an email 19:32:18 i will 19:32:19 sure you can do that with ECL; you'll probably need one, or two months diving into ECL itself before you're comfortable enough with it to tackle your actual problem 19:32:38 wait, here in irc? 19:32:46 yeah, or msg me 19:32:52 ill message you later 19:32:54 gtg 19:32:56 -!- orm [~a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/x-kovstyturxdccfwn] has quit [Quit: makes like a tree and gets outta here.] 19:37:58 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:37 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:40:39 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:43:26 orm [~orm@136.sub-97-240-223.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:15 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:46:37 anyone know how to enable ECL's bytecode compiler? 19:47:58 *Xach* wonders if he should upgrade from 1.0.6 19:50:18 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:51:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zizfddbknuyreedt] has left #lisp 19:53:28 I'm looking at tghe ecl doc and it seems that all exposure of C++ functionality lies in ecl's ffi, am I right? 19:53:42 hefner: i'd guess (require 'bytecmp) 19:54:14 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:22 though it behaves somewhat strange in slime 19:55:56 ecl can't be build with -j2? 19:57:52 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:46 *sigh* 19:58:54 what's up, beach? 19:59:33 tic: The usual stuff; a backlog of emails and not enough time to do what seems appropriate. 19:59:39 "meh" 20:00:03 tic: But I did write an information system for the department, using Hunchentoot and CL-WHO. 20:00:10 beach, oh, that's nice! 20:00:25 tic: My first web-app in some sense. I copied some ideas from CLIM. 20:00:44 beach: did you try applying the spam filters techniques to determine what mails are more important? 20:00:49 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:00:59 stassats`: what's -j2? 20:01:10 stassats`: Nah, I don't spend much time on that filtering. 20:01:18 hefner: make -j2 20:01:21 concurrent build 20:01:29 stassats`: My lab already marks things with ***SPAM*** 20:01:31 ah. I was looking for a gcc flag. make is for sissies. 20:01:38 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:02:20 stassats`: It is pretty damn accurate. I can pretty much hit `d' on all messages marked like that. 20:02:53 beach: i men you can apply it even further, to sort which mails you need to answer first 20:02:58 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.69.61] has joined #lisp 20:03:11 stassats`: That would be tough. 20:03:44 stassats`: It is just that there are more things to do per time unit than time available, especially if one insists on getting some *real* stuff done as well. :( 20:04:18 stassats`: no it can't 20:04:25 bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:26 and what's the status of ECL's bytecode compiler? it doesn't seem to work for me 20:04:37 So how would I expose a c++ object to ecl? I know it works well for c structs, but apparently so does every other embedded lang 20:04:42 its makefile does not correctly specify all inter-files dependencies 20:04:54 the bytecode compiler is used by LOAD, afaik 20:05:43 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has joined #lisp 20:05:43 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-83-19.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:46 So I am trying to get the locals excited by some SICL-related stuff, but it's hard. 20:06:06 maden [~maden@dsl-153-45.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:19 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06:38 maden_ [~maden@dsl-153-45.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 tcr: can i build fasls with it? 20:06:52 Perhaps by writing a few docstrings and a few type declarations per week, that will keep their interest up until they have time to really work on it. 20:07:09 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 20:07:25 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-48-157.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:35 beach, what do you want them to become interested in? 20:07:36 -!- lordakinator [~Administr@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:43 ... 20:08:24 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-153-45.aei.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:41 tic: Anything, really! Finishing FORMAT, write docstrings, write type declarations, manage the TODO list. Anything! 20:08:42 maybe passing -O0 to gcc will speed up things, it's taking an eternity to compile swank 20:08:49 beach, aha. :-) 20:09:26 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:09:57 tic: They all claim to be interested, but then declare not having the time, or not enough knowledge (which can be fixed), or they just keep quiet. 20:10:09 beach, *nod* 20:11:16 I would prefer they told me what they *really* think: "you are crazy", "I have no idea what you are talking about", "Nobdoy's going to want this", whatever! 20:11:33 maybe they mean that they don't have the time 20:11:43 Aww! 20:11:44 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-83-19.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:12:09 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:12:13 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 20:12:16 Krystof: This is not true. Idurand for instance has even said she will have time very soon now. 20:12:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:13:48 Krystof: and you know Aymerick Vincent. He is a great guy that is (or that I think should be) looking for interesting things to do. 20:15:15 mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:15:40 Krystof: Plus, all of us are suffering from spending our entire day doing stupid admin stuff. I am offering my colleagues to do some productive stuff (writing a type declaration or a docstring) in the 15-minute holes that such activities leave us with. 20:15:52 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:16:23 if the context switch to remember how to do something takes a significant fraction of that 15 minutes, it'll feel painful 20:17:01 Krystof: Yeah, that is one thing that bothers me at the moment, and I am not sure how to fix it. 20:17:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 20:17:47 Krystof: It might require a tracking system, and then people who keep that up to date, etc. 20:18:59 mvilleneuve suggested one, but it makes some assumptions that makes it hard to use for <15min-type stuff. 20:25:31 I blame my home office. I'm not in hacking mood when I get home. Can't figure out the reason why. 20:27:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:27:50 tic: For me it's the opposite. The distractions at work (colleagues, secretaries, coffee, thesis munchies, phone calls etc) make it impossible to even start planning some work to do. 20:28:20 beach, ouch. 20:29:19 ah, the bytecompiler is busted. 20:29:49 Yeah, the interruptions during the day, and the fact you start to be really in the mood after 18:00... 20:30:18 I'm thinking a laptop would be good for hacking. 20:30:44 tic: depends on what kind of hacking. 20:31:14 tic: often I have a need for more resources, to avoid spending a lot of time on it. Be it disk space or processor power... 20:31:33 tic: then there's the problem of synchronizing the laptop with the workstation :-( 20:32:20 pjb: For me, it's before I go to work (if at all) from around 5am. 20:32:43 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:33:03 pjb, that's annoying. is synchronizing a hard thing, though? 20:33:43 I have a very good workstation at home, and I use the laptop only on the bus (and when I am on trips). 20:34:06 And nowadays I use GIT to synchronize my stuff. 20:36:41 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:36:48 -!- pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:29 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:00 beach: GIT? Is that the old-school version control used with LISP? ;) 20:39:15 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-153-45.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:39:36 sykopomp: Gah! Maybe! Should I write Git or git? 20:40:02 Git is probably the most correct 20:40:21 I promise to improve! 20:40:25 beach: the git website refers to it as both Git and git. 20:41:04 ...it also seems to have Domo-kun as its mascot. I'm so confused. 20:42:23 sykopomp: Yeah, I can see why. Does that pose a problem for you? 20:43:43 sykopomp: where ? 20:43:47 beach: I don't see what the problem with capitalization is, although it does look a little strange. 20:44:03 fe[nl]ix: http://git-scm.com/ Look at the huge domo-kun eating trees. 20:44:15 beach: it's probably more a shibboleth than anything. Like LISP vs Lisp. 20:44:24 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:27 Yeah. 20:44:28 beach: I still intend to move gsharp to git any time soon 20:44:34 maybe Thursday 20:44:44 Krystof: I think that's a great plan! 20:45:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:45:05 sykopomp: lol 20:45:38 fe[nl]ix: I did a bit of a web-double-take about it. Went to the page. Closed it. "Wait, was that domo-kun?". Reopen page and stare. 20:47:47 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 20:47:49 Krystof: I forget whether I told you that the brightest student of our first batch in Vietnam has applied to do a PhD here, and the topic is Gsharp. 20:47:57 that is excellent 20:48:09 hm, I should show you a draft of a paper that one of our students has written 20:48:10 hold on 20:49:01 http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/draft1.pdf 20:49:24 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 20:49:25 -!- daniel is now known as 15SAAK6PR 20:49:43 -!- 15SAAK6PR is now known as daniel 20:50:02 *beach* reading... 20:50:51 (that's not quite the latest version; there's a much, much better figure illustrating the output from the SIA algorithm) 20:52:01 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:01 Fine, and someone should teach the authors to write abstracts. 20:52:26 maden [~maden@dsl-153-45.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:52:29 the abstract gets (re)written last! 20:52:49 [this one contains essentially no information allowing a potential reader to decide whether he/she would like to reat the paper] 20:53:06 apetizer? 20:53:20 "If you read this paper, we'll tell you some exciting stuff". 20:53:21 yes, well, that's because we haven't actually done the experiment yet, or worked out what we want to conclude 20:53:30 as I said, "draft" 20:53:46 I'm not trying to sell it to everyone, I'm showing it to you :-) 20:54:06 jollygood [~jollygood@pool-72-65-131-180.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 Krystof: Thanks! [and to everyone on #lisp] :) 20:54:43 Krystof: I am just doing my job, i.e. tell people what I think. 20:55:12 Krystof: You don't want to improve the paper, don't listen! 20:55:56 I'm trying to optimize the utility of comments 20:56:05 but thank you :) 20:56:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:22 pleasure 20:58:09 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:59:05 Krystof: Looks promising. Feel free to give me a draft to correct bugs etc before submitting it somewhere! 20:59:22 targetted for ISMIR, deadline Wednesday 20:59:27 mnts [~mnts@user86.85-195-13.netatonce.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7F69.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:45 Krystof: What time, and in what time zone? 21:00:29 good question 21:00:33 -!- mnts [~mnts@user86.85-195-13.netatonce.net] has left #lisp 21:01:12 since I have two other papers targetted at that venue, it's likely that at least one of them will rely on being able to submit while it's still Wednesday _somewhere_ 21:02:36 Krystof: Tomorrow is my day-from-hell, but Wednesday morning I could make a contribution. Not sure that's enough time. 21:03:10 Krystof: I like the paper though. 21:04:34 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 benny` [~benny@i577A7F69.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 Neat stuff you are doing with Gsharp! 21:05:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:08:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:09:36 prxq [~mommer@g226138140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:43 hi 21:09:57 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:15 hello prxq 21:11:16 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:11:50 prxq: I am having a hard time finding time to work on you research project :( 21:12:19 Hello prxq. 21:12:21 beach: me too! :-) 21:12:26 hi nyef 21:12:43 -!- orm [~orm@136.sub-97-240-223.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:44 I looked through the cvsweb for matlisp, and found one place where it interacts with file descriptors. 21:13:06 beach: i am writing a presentation to be held soonish here at the institute. 21:13:13 nyef: ah...ha! 21:13:25 prxq: Are you using the gnuplot interface at all? 21:13:30 nyef: no 21:13:39 Guess that's not it, then. 21:13:45 *prxq* greps 21:13:48 prxq: plese ship it over if possible. 21:13:57 The gnuplot stuff uses run-program, run-program uses file-descriptors. 21:14:13 hello all. Comments on the following snippet of code: 21:14:13 Shaftoe, memo from stassats`: too bad i still can't reproduce it myself. I can only help by looking at *slime-events* and profiling results 21:14:14 Shaftoe, memo from stassats`: try also setting slime-warn-when-possibly-tricked-by-M-. to NIL with that patch still applied 21:14:27 And much as I -don't- want to turn up another subtle bug in some piece of SBCL... 21:14:29 Shaftoe pasted "hostname resolution" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96775 21:14:58 beach: I will! 21:15:21 Shaftoe: There's a good chance that gethostbyaddr isn't threadsafe. 21:15:27 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 nyef: i found a peek-char-no-hang somewhere in the sources. Ugh 21:15:48 nyef: meaning I should surround it with a mutex? 21:15:59 Shaftoe: Umm... No. 21:16:15 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:18 nyef: meaning I shouldn't use it at all? =) 21:16:23 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:41 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:47 Meaning check to see if it's using gethostbyaddr() or gethostbyaddr_r(), make it use the correct one when available, etc. 21:17:10 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:33 ok. on another note: does this reproduce functionality already presnet somewhere else that I'm not aware of? 21:17:51 No clue? 21:18:06 nyef: good enough. Same for me =) 21:19:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:20:34 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.189.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22:13 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:22:38 nyef: matlisp is it. I can reproduce the error by loading it with (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'matlisp), and then after success do again (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'matlisp) 21:22:58 prxq: Eek. 21:22:59 and boom 21:23:03 (coerce (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (parse-integer x)) (split-sequence:split-sequence #\. (hunchentoot:remote-addr*))) 'vector) => (map 'vector #'parse-integer (split-sequence:split-sequence #\. ...)) 21:23:40 INPUT on BOGUS descriptor 0 21:23:43 Wait... where's the .asd? 21:23:48 and if it was me, i wouldn't use split-sequence 21:23:52 that doesn't happen with other stuff 21:24:12 nyef: the .asd? i wrote it myself. 21:24:13 Uh 21:24:18 Ah. 21:25:11 milanj [~milan@77.46.248.175] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 _rata_ [~c8594549@gateway/web/freenode/x-vmxhahccbeinpdpn] has joined #lisp 21:25:47 -!- _rata_ [~c8594549@gateway/web/freenode/x-vmxhahccbeinpdpn] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:57 nyef: no, i can't have written this one. I once wrote one, but this one is different, as it has conditionals for darwin 21:25:57 gcv [~gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 nice one stassats. thanks. 21:26:55 Still, there are two questions: Are the file descriptors still unmolested after the first time through, and what on earth happens the second time through? 21:27:20 regarding split-sequence: would you not use it even if your project has it loaded and uses it? 21:28:03 Shaftoe: what is wrong with split-sequence? 21:28:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:28:41 prxq: didn't say anything was wrong with it. read my exchange with stassats` 21:29:17 prxq pasted "matlisp.asd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96776 21:29:28 -!- gcv [~gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 21:30:01 Anyone know where I can find a copy of the paper on ECL from Amsterdam 2008? 21:30:17 Shaftoe: that's right 21:30:18 Link to sourceforge wiki is dead. 21:30:39 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:17 stassats`: you'd write out the functionality literally or use something else instaead? 21:31:37 minion: tell Shaftoe about iolib 21:31:38 Shaftoe: have a look at iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 21:31:52 Shaftoe: i'd write it literally 21:33:10 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:52 stassats`: as before, I'll send you some more information later tonight re slime 21:34:02 ok 21:34:22 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:36 stassats`: I completely missed the exchange. Is there anything wrong with split-sequence? 21:35:45 i justify not using split-sequence or regular expressions: i don't need any additional libraries, it's faster, it conses less, though it might be large, error prone, etc 21:35:46 prxq: it's like using EVAL when all you need is APPLY 21:35:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18D89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 21:35:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:02 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:17 minion: reference for mop? 21:36:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``reference''. 21:36:24 minion: mop? 21:36:25 mop: Meta Object Protocol(MOP) is a protocol for describing CLOS itself as an extensible CLOS program. http://www.cliki.net/mop 21:37:43 prxq: I'm failing to see any reason why the -second- load-op would fail. 21:38:10 At the same time, I'm well aware that my mental model of ASDF is, essentially, junk. 21:38:17 nyef: i'm uploading a screenshot of some weird stuff i found in *inferior-lisp* 21:38:23 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-205-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:32 that, btw, refuses to get cut & paste 21:38:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:39:04 Refuses to be cut and paste? From emacs? 21:39:12 That's beyond strange. 21:39:12 http://www.pictureshack.us/images/8036Screenshot.png 21:39:16 :-) 21:39:20 indeed 21:39:40 Ah. 21:39:42 exactly that is what happens. It refuses to be cut and pasted from emacs 21:40:00 but we get to see your fonts 21:40:16 stassats`: i reduced size twice to make it fit :-) 21:40:18 That's an odd variable name. 21:40:32 prxq: C-x h M-w doesn't work? 21:40:40 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:40:42 worse than camel case, huh? 21:41:53 stassats`: the problem is pasting that into the lisppaste text field 21:42:04 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 21:42:21 More like wondering how you got such obviously corrupt data. 21:42:23 prxq: you can change your encoding in slime to, if you don't want it to crash 21:43:00 prxq: use xclipboard, it can usually figure out which clipboard you actually want to use 21:43:10 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 prxq: or at least get something from emacs in a pastable form 21:44:27 prxq: do I see a tab bar there ? 21:45:17 nyef: the only thing is asdf:run-shell-command, but that just calls sb-ext:run-programm after some (format nil ...) magic 21:45:24 fe[nl]ix: you do 21:46:06 Is it actually getting called the second time you load the system? 21:46:42 And note that run-program does damage to file descriptors, which may be generating the -visible- part of the problem. 21:47:27 i'll build a little trap to check 21:48:07 no, it doesn't get called. 21:48:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:50 btw, the gnuplot stuff isn't being loaded 21:49:13 This is getting weird, then. 21:51:22 what does run program do to the fds? 21:51:49 where can i find matlisp with an .asd file? 21:52:08 stassats`: if you want you can have my very same version 21:52:17 on sql server, (query "select getdate()") => "2010-03-22 21:50:39,,0" 21:52:27 I really don't get what the ",,0" is meant to be. 21:52:31 funnily, with-timeout itself is not interrupt safe :-) 21:52:32 any ideas? 21:52:41 stassats`: that, or get a matlisp and put the .asd in the paste above in the matlisp directory 21:52:57 prxq: i got it from cvs on SF, is that right? 21:53:07 (is that what you have, i mean) 21:53:18 (ps. query -> clsql:query) 21:53:48 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:49 stassats`: no, not exactly, but only minor changes that 100% have nothing to do with the current problem. I added a few fortran routines. 21:54:09 i mean, bindings to a few fortran routines. 21:54:15 *prxq* should send a patch 21:54:17 anyways, I'm going to just ignore it. sigh. 21:54:23 prxq: do i have to compile fortran part first? 21:54:34 stassats`: no, the asd does that 21:55:32 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:14 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:56:34 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 21:56:48 prxq: is it part of emacs or some external package ? 21:58:21 fe[nl]ix: i *think* it came with emacs23. All i had to do is put (require 'tabbar) (tabbar-mode) in the .emacs.d/init.el 21:58:43 i think i installed emacs-goodies from the same ppa where i've got the emacs23 from 22:00:46 bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:53 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:01:05 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:06 -!- vezult [~work-davi@75-145-242-25-spotsylvania.va.richmond.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:02:14 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 22:03:46 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:04:29 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:37 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-58-29-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:25 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:29 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:07:54 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:07:56 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 22:08:24 -!- mogunus [~marco@ip-159.250.64.132.dsl.crocker.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:45 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:54 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75487d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:11 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 22:10:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:21 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:46 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:12:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 stassats`: do you see the same behavior? 22:15:26 i was away staring at stars 22:15:28 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:19 stassats`: not bad :-) 22:17:03 good night everybody 22:17:05 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226138140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:13 pjb [~t@162.Red-88-30-115.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:19:27 bandu [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:55 i can load matlisp three times successfully 22:23:43 Stale fasls? 22:24:58 exim [~root@188.129.128.214] has joined #lisp 22:25:12 -!- exim [~root@188.129.128.214] has left #lisp 22:25:14 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:26:38 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:26:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:27:46 how that would explain that it does work for prxq once? 22:28:36 -!- hc_e_ is now known as hc_e 22:29:06 -!- hc_e is now known as Guest49229 22:29:15 -!- Guest49229 [~hc@salato.hcesperer.org] has quit [Changing host] 22:29:15 Guest49229 [~hc@pdpc/supporter/active/hc-e] has joined #lisp 22:29:35 -!- Guest49229 is now known as hc_e 22:29:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:45 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:17 ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has joined #lisp 22:33:40 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:34:04 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:20 toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:04 nixeagle` [~user@cpe-24-209-52-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:36 -!- nixeagle` [~user@cpe-24-209-52-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:57 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:36:27 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:51 slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 22:37:30 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:37:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:39 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:37:51 -!- gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-58-29-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:37:51 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:54 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:59 -!- ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:40:19 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cfc3.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:41:22 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-124-62.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:42:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:14 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-93-145.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:15 benny`` [~benny@i577A82DF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:28 -!- benny`` is now known as benny 22:48:16 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-58-29-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:34 gigamonkey: I acquired Coders at Work! And I was pleasantly surprised by the Acknowledgment 22:48:51 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A7F69.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:24 -!- DixitDominus [~trono@cpe-74-68-150-209.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:49:34 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:03 Krystof: ;-) 22:56:53 minion: logs 22:56:54 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 23:03:54 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.239] has joined #lisp 23:04:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:01 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:06:27 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:14 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:07 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 23:10:21 Can I make asdf restart/reload itself? 23:10:24 from slime 23:10:41 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:23 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:29 -!- lispm [~joswig@e177144105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:36 _asdf_? 23:11:53 heyhey [~512bf2b3@gateway/web/freenode/x-dkwpvclgylrfovri] has joined #lisp 23:12:25 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:13:14 sie: that doesn't make a lot of sense... what is it you are actually trying to do? 23:15:39 drewc: Well I changed my thing.asd file, and tried to (require 'thing) again, but then it fails  don't know how to require thing. :/ 23:15:57 twopoint718 [~chris@adsl-76-233-147-211.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:18 how did it find thing.asd in the first place? 23:18:32 and you're not asking how to reload asdf, you're asking how to reload a specific system definition 23:18:40 -!- heyhey [~512bf2b3@gateway/web/freenode/x-dkwpvclgylrfovri] has left #lisp 23:19:12 are you just relying on hoping that the current directory of the lisp environment happens to be the same as the location of the .asd? 23:19:34 or do you know about the central registry already? 23:19:38 It found it first time, because it's in path, which I pushed in asdf:*central-registry* in .sbclrc. 23:19:48 in what path? 23:19:56 oh, in a path that you pushed 23:20:07 then it should find the file again... 23:20:17 try (asdf:oos 'load-op :thing) 23:20:29 sorry (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :thing) 23:20:48 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:23 component "thing" not found 23:26:05 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Quit: g2g] 23:27:47 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:25 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:23 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:08 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:32:32 bipt [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:50 sie: you have to have a system named 'thing' in your thing.asd 23:33:57 (defsystem thing ...) 23:34:15 So, does anybody have an opinion on BitC? 23:36:33 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.69.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:36:38 sysfault [exalted@2002:4573:800f::4573:800f] has joined #lisp 23:36:38 deepfire: I bet its author has one 23:37:15 -!- sysfault [exalted@2002:4573:800f::4573:800f] has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:04 cddr [~user@5ac75e68.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:12 fe[nl]ix, have you looked at it? 23:38:26 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.242] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:39:37 how would you get cl to write float using binary notation? 23:39:52 I have an opinion on it, and I'd thought somebody else has one, so we'd have a nice discussion. 23:39:54 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-23-84-107.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:52 cddr, that'd require violation of representational freedom granted by CL to float numbers. 23:41:09 minion: tell cddr about ieee-floats 23:41:10 cddr: please see ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 23:41:20 if you need ieee 754 format 23:41:30 er, granted by CL to implementations wrt. float numbers. 23:41:55 what needs to be violated? 23:42:06 representational freedom 23:42:31 what for? 23:43:02 you can print your floats however you want 23:43:22 pjb` [~t@95.124.91.7] has joined #lisp 23:44:41 cool, trying to parse one of these http://support.sas.com/techsup/technote/ts140.html. ieee-floats looks like it will help 23:44:58 -!- pjb [~t@162.Red-88-30-115.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:45 stassats`, printing float is kinda impossible without knowing how they are laid out by the CPU, no? 23:46:52 deepfire: incorrect 23:47:23 deepfire: you can look at ieee-floats, if you want 23:47:29 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:47:49 -!- Axioplas1_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: brb] 23:48:00 clhs decode-float 23:48:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dec_fl.htm 23:48:04 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 23:48:13 -!- toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:23 Umm, I must be missing something. 23:48:37 deepfire: You're missing decode-float, integer-decode-float, etc. 23:50:27 Oh, so CL provides a way to tap into this knowledge of implementation's float representation. 23:50:54 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:51:00 "tap into" isn't quite the right term, but yes. 23:51:05 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 23:53:24 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:27 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.248] has joined #lisp 23:54:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:42 there is representational freedom, but the parameters chosen must be made available in a specific way, basically 23:55:28 which actually does constrain some of allowed features 23:56:25 That said, is there anything stopping an implementation from doing (defclass float (number) ((significand :type integer) (exponent :type integer) (sign :type integer))) ? 23:56:50 nyef: customers. 23:57:05 Well, yes, but anything -in the standard-? 23:57:14 Nop. Indeed.