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[~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:09 Was there anything interesting on c.l.l in last past month? 00:35:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-62.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:03 All of it. 00:47:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:54:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:37 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:56:52 felixthered [~felix.the@97-126-59-64.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:29 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-135-203.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:52 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:03 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-58-128.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:52 -!- juan_ [~juan@189.70.53.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:03 Anyone have experience with LispWorks and trivial-backtrace/ 01:07:06 ? 01:11:40 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-127-141.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:51 _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:29 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:16:59 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:36 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051144224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:21:26 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:28:41 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C413.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:29:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757d20.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 02:57:26 -!- Skewb [~Skewb@62.32.145.156] has quit [] 03:04:41 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:45 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:06:00 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-100.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:13 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:07:44 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:11:56 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-jmzttnbbllkqbfvx] has joined #lisp 03:19:59 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:36 hadronzoo_ [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-58-128.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:57 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 03:39:39 -!- 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[~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-242-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:46 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:46 -!- lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-192-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:43 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:23:17 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 04:26:14 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:30:06 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.91.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:39 akopa pasted "Joe Marshall's stackhack in Common Lisp using an additional return value instead of a non local exit. Modifications based on the paper "Non Exceptional Continuations"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96702 04:37:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:08 schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:41:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:45:50 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 04:53:37 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:37 akopa annotated #96702 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96702#1 04:56:33 -!- rme [rme@clozure-A59A26E2.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:56:33 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-127-141.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:59:05 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 05:00:12 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 05:08:06 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-jmzttnbbllkqbfvx] has quit [] 05:10:43 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:41 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:16:00 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:16:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.79.74] has joined #lisp 05:18:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:18 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:24:41 rares [~rares@174-17-90-2.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:02 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:29:04 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 05:30:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 05:36:37 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:39:03 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:41:59 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:43:02 is there such a thing as PATHNAME-FILE-P or FILE-P or some other predicate to test for the file-ness of a given pathname object or name string? or is something else left as an exercise to the end user? 05:44:40 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_probe_.htm 05:44:42 That it? 05:44:48 . and .. and messing up my directory iteration, and PATHNAME type returns something meaningful for all files, but returns :UNSPECIFIC for directories? 05:46:12 dralston: that's just a probe, tests to see if a file exists. I already know the "file" exists. But I want to make the distinction between file and directory; symlinks, devices and fifos can wait .. 05:46:39 FILE-NAMESTRING-P seems to be what I want. 05:47:11 brb, taking time machine for a spin and paying x3j13 a visit 05:50:29 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-himhvcmvllrzamlx] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:50:50 (defun file-namestring-p (path) 05:50:52 (unless (equalp (pathname-type path) :unspecific) 05:50:53 path)) 05:51:47 will let the sticklers for the spec debate that one out 06:03:06 mega1_ [~quassel@53d82d41.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:03:09 Good morning! 06:04:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44aae0.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:43 `(good ,time) 06:10:32 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:50 j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:12:01 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:39 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:21:52 -!- Tabstar is now known as Tabmow 06:26:05 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:15 -!- ned [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:28:37 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:03 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:05 ned [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:33 -!- ned is now known as Guest1690 06:38:55 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 06:43:04 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@53d82d41.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:43:27 mega1 [~quassel@53d82d41.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:45:14 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 06:47:24 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 06:48:24 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:54:29 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 06:57:13 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-114-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:05:25 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:11:22 -!- j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:11:30 j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:14:28 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:55 -!- easyE [BO0ot4cnZd@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:21:07 easyE [fdlunWgRrL@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:42 -!- Guest1690 is now known as ned[] 07:31:02 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:39 -!- easyE [fdlunWgRrL@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:33:20 -!- housel` is now known as housel 07:38:38 -!- j4k0b 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timeout: 246 seconds] 09:53:47 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:58 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-26-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:35 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:33 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:06:05 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665b9a-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:15 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:08:39 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f664103-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 10:10:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:49 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 this Koza book is driving my bananas, the three examples in the appendix run great, matching the book perfectly, but none of the actual problems come even close to the book 10:11:03 okflo [~user@91-115-86-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:11:46 well, none of the problems I've tried so far, that is 10:23:08 Koza? 10:24:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756509.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:41 bytecolor: genetic programming? 10:31:19 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:36:33 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 10:38:00 Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.66.102] has joined #lisp 10:38:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43:13 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:34 -!- sobersabre [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43:56 sobersabre [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:43 slyrus___ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:29 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-60-28-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:45:30 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:45:40 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus 10:47:12 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:47:15 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:48 lukego [~lukegorri@60.53.130.214] has joined #lisp 10:50:45 I'm using SBCL 1.0.35.1 on linux/x86 and 'sbcl -dynamic-space-size 1500' doesn't seem to be effective. any ideas? 10:51:40 two dashes? 10:52:12 ahem :) I did check that in the manpage, but evidently misread. 10:52:17 thanks :) 10:52:39 -!- schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:58 a so inclined person might argue that such behavior is not too optimal, though 10:55:58 not reporting errors? how would you distinguish between user options and implementation options? 10:56:16 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 10:56:16 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 10:57:46 stassats: the mechanism for obtaining them would have to be changed. First thing must be to save the options somewhere, and if there are some left signal an error 10:58:13 no idea how to do it, though. 10:59:00 Skewb [~Skewb@83.231.20.152] has joined #lisp 10:59:09 one could come up with schemes, though. 10:59:10 Hi. 11:01:59 prxq: i can't think of anything simple 11:03:40 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:06:05 kqrx [~kqrx@81-236-3-108-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:41 is there in lisp a function equivalent to the 'zip in other languages (python, haskell)? 11:06:55 what does zip do? 11:07:01 stassats: you could define a function FETCH-OPTION that would return the value of an option (and note that it has been fetched) 11:07:03 i accidentally wrote one just now, but before i archive it i want to know if there already exists an alternative 11:07:30 stassats: then, a function FINISHED-FETCHING-OPTIONS that'd signal an error if some where left unhandled 11:07:30 prxq: you can handle your options whatever you like 11:07:56 <_8david> kqrx: (mapcar #'vector x y) 11:07:58 zip, in it's most basic form, takes two lists and merges them so that (zip '(1 2 3) '(A B C)) => ((1 A) (1 B) (1 C) (2 A) (2 B) (2 C) (3 A) (3 B) (3 C)) 11:08:46 kqrx: Cartesian product? 11:08:54 prxq: but your handling doesn't have to come immediately after you start sbcl 11:09:13 stassats: finally, an option for delegating the call of FINISHED-FETCHING-OPTIONS to the program loaded by the user. Maybe controlable by a special 11:09:25 _8david: and that led me to (mapcar #'list L1 L2), which was what i was after, even though it might differ a little from the common zips... thanks 11:09:52 stassats: and if that option wasn't passed, and sbcl sees any options it does not handle by itself, then it signals an error. 11:09:58 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:59 <_8david> ...neither zip nor mapcar do what you pasted as an example though 11:10:11 stassats: the point is having some control over the issue, and a saner default behavior 11:10:50 _8david: oh, right, i'm too quick in reviewing the results, you're right 11:12:31 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 11:12:41 stassats: otoh, sbcl --PleasIgnoreThisCamelCaseOption works beautifully right now :) 11:13:38 (mapcan (lambda (x) (mapcar (lambda (y) (list x y)) list2)) list1) 11:15:00 antonis-froska [~adonis@ppp-94-65-159-136.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:15:06 nonlispy :) : (defun zip (l1 l2) (let (result) (loop for i1 in l1 do (loop for i2 in l2 do (push (list i1 i2) result))) result)) 11:15:26 i finally made my function...:) 11:16:03 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:19 <_3b> if you want loop, why not (loop for i in l1 append (loop for j in l2 collect (list i j))) ? 11:16:21 -!- ShadowChild is now known as lukjad86 11:16:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:16:39 prxq: if you're handling options in your program, you can signal errors, but when you start SBCL with just REPL, how it's supposed to know that you won't load anything and won't touch options? 11:16:41 <_3b> then you don't forget to nreverse the results before returning it :p 11:16:57 hoy 11:17:04 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:17:17 and s/append/nconc/ 11:17:42 _3b: nice! forgotten about append in loop... loop is to mighty :) 11:17:48 stassats: under this scheme, you'd have to tell it, either by an additional command line option, or by setting a special and saving a custom core 11:17:49 stassats: In almost all cases, if you start sbcl that way, you won't ever look at argv 11:18:03 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:14 tcr: what if you add --load? 11:21:05 stassats: then you'd have to tell sbcl if that code will parse options or not. Where's the problem? 11:21:12 -!- kqrx [~kqrx@81-236-3-108-no61.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 11:21:40 something like --extra-options and that's it 11:21:47 prxq: complexification? 11:22:43 stassats: so what? it would be saner, and have a better behaviour. One option more is hardly complexification 11:23:27 -!- antonis-froska [~adonis@ppp-94-65-159-136.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 11:23:49 not that i am planning to implement it, mid you :-) 11:23:56 s/mid/mind/ 11:24:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:29:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29:50 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 11:32:23 Unhammer [~user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 11:32:28 dmit [~dmit@94.247.120.2] has joined #lisp 11:33:49 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:35:38 pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:29 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:58 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 11:39:38 -!- ski_ is now known as ski 11:46:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:21 stassats: still here? 11:47:25 yes 11:47:54 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 11:48:07 stassats: Could you add a swank-server.lisp to slime so you can just sbcl --load swank-server.lisp and get a running swank server? 11:48:48 what about port-number? zero? 11:49:40 4005, i.e. default; but you should write it in such a way that it's an example for people to look at and tweak 11:49:41 prxq: nod, Koza's first book. He gives the actual parameter values for the appendix examples, but not for the problems in the book. The discrepancy is a bit annoying. Still, it's pretty fascinating stuff ;) 11:50:48 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:51:44 mentioning some stuff like globally redirecting i/o, dedicated output streams, and then referring to the manual for more information 11:52:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:42 maybe call it start-swank.lisp instead 11:55:33 i see, sounds doable 11:58:37 I'll also post another easy-do on slime-devel 11:59:04 or I'll just tell you here 11:59:18 does your reload-slime function rerun all the contribs' init functions? 11:59:33 it runs slime-setup 11:59:41 ok 12:00:23 Axius [~hi@92.82.91.201] has joined #lisp 12:00:24 what it does, basically, reloads the code and then reruns your own configuration 12:00:41 does Emacs require really reload the source if the source changed? 12:01:07 you probably load the *.el files in contrib/ yourself? 12:01:56 it calls load-library on all `features' which start with "slime" 12:02:06 Anyway: the bug is that slime-repl.el has lots of slime-define-keys at the toplevel; I think they ought to move into the slime-repl-init function 12:02:31 because it overwrites some keys, like C-c C-z 12:02:42 and if you just reload slime.el, C-c C-z will be different 12:02:55 and you cannot just M-: (slime-repl-init) 12:03:47 that's why i put my slime config in the `setup-slime' function, which is called from .emacs, and also from `slime-reload' 12:04:15 This is not about private customization 12:04:30 both slime.el and slime-repl.el set C-c C-z 12:04:32 well, it solves C-c C-z 12:04:43 C-c C-z was the reason i did it that way 12:05:04 hrm I cannot follow then :-) 12:05:28 anyway, would be cool if you could move the non-slime-repl-mode-affecting define-keys to the init function 12:05:35 unicode [~user@95.214.24.2] has joined #lisp 12:05:57 or maybe something other, but i did have a problem with C-c C-z too 12:08:47 now i remember, reloading in the same order solved it 12:09:55 yes it's an order problem 12:11:08 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:11:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:11:13 it's easy, just reversing features: see http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/reload-slime.el 12:11:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:28 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.91.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:14:06 Sure still it's a bug in slime-repl.el :-) 12:15:16 you can call (slime-setup slime-required-modules) in slime-reload 12:15:30 oh no you can't 12:15:38 bah badly named variable :-) 12:15:40 -!- Skewb [~Skewb@83.231.20.152] has quit [] 12:16:31 still, my slime configuration overrides some key-bindings 12:17:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BD21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:26 and the variable is slime-setup-contribs 12:18:14 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:07 though it only contains those from the last call to slime-setup, maybe somebody calls slime-setup more than once 12:19:10 I once started to add a slime-define-contrib macro with a :depends-on; and which's sugar on top of slime-foo-init 12:20:11 but I then thought "nevermind" to myself :-) 12:20:34 and now i see no reason for slime-setup-contribs to be a global variable at all in the current code 12:21:55 it's useful to ask people report M-: slime-setup-contribs 12:21:58 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:49 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:38 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:25:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:33 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:30:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:30:52 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:25 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 12:32:17 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-56-124.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:33:29 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad86 12:33:36 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:33:39 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:25 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-34-225.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:56 jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 -!- jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:39:34 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:40:23 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:40:45 jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:37 tcr: so, i've committed start-swank.lisp, any comments? 12:45:41 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:47:49 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.62] has joined #lisp 12:48:30 -!- jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has quit [Quit: jwr7] 12:51:15 in sbcl, how do i get the highest possible debug level? (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) does not seem to do the trick 12:51:30 (safety 3) 12:51:39 just a guess. 12:51:43 (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) 12:51:49 what are you missing? 12:51:54 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:29 nikodemus: i have a method that is called and generates an error. However, I do net get that frame in the trace. 12:52:41 stassats: what does that do? 12:52:50 pjb: I'll try 12:52:55 what its name says 12:53:35 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:54:03 prxq: I'm pretty sure I submitted something like that on launchpad, or to one of the mailing lists in the last past two months 12:54:12 hm, i see 12:54:39 stassats: i am still none the wiser. Does that affect the other optimize settings? 12:54:50 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 prxq: see its docstring 12:55:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:45 well, it seems it is a bug, not something a docstring could fix :-) 12:56:30 prxq: Stack frame missing for auxiliar method call in backtrace, sbcl-devel 12:56:42 2009-Sept-30 12:57:11 tcr: I see, thanks 12:57:32 hm no that does not actually fit your case 12:57:34 your case sounds worse 12:58:27 prxq: but yeah try the restrict-compiler-policy 12:58:48 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.24.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:09 tcr: what is the difference? 12:59:23 it tells the compiler to use (debug 3) no matter what local optimization declarations say (which may be inserted by defmethod) 12:59:35 (for some part of the method definition) 13:00:23 ah ok. No, i meant, what is the difference to the bug you filed? 13:01:18 stassats: start-swank.lisp looks good enough. I still hate it that we cannot go unicode by default, but for that to work (introducing a prefered-coding-system for the backends) we'd need handshaking the coding-system to be used between slime and the swank ser ver 13:01:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:40 prxq: Mine was due to TCO, and compiling with (debug 2) fixed it. 13:02:00 prxq: Notice that in Slime, C-u C-c C-c will compile the toplevel form at point with (restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) on SBCL 13:02:10 very convenient 13:02:16 indeed! 13:02:37 or C-u C-c C-k 13:03:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.209] has joined #lisp 13:04:09 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:04:36 stassats: swank-loader.lisp should probably have called (swank-loader:init) with explicit key parameters; it could also mention *log-events*; in case you ever want to modify for something else, try to remember to also do these changes 13:07:10 So... why can't you negotiate preferred coding systems? 13:07:48 complicating the protocol 13:10:27 maybe there should be a section in the manual on how to debug slime 13:11:23 slime-internals, or something 13:11:58 sure, I could send you a list of stuff to mention if you want to tackle it 13:14:32 *stassats* hesitates currently to write large sections for the manual because of the diffidence in his english 13:15:21 Just do it. I'm sure this Mark Harig will correct you anyway :-) 13:15:39 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:41 you can paste here before you actually commit 13:16:17 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:23 It's a lot easier to revise a somewhat-okay document to be good than it is to write a good document from scratch. 13:16:40 hans__ [~5b7356bf@gateway/web/freenode/x-dxfjskvspzkoeorx] has joined #lisp 13:16:51 To the point where the usual method is to write a somewhat-okay document called an "initial draft"... 13:18:51 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:19:34 no, nothing works. the frame of that method just doesn't appear in the call stack 13:19:56 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:03 What sort of error does it generate? 13:20:03 is your call stack green? 13:20:04 maybe the error is actually signalled before that method? 13:20:09 (in slime) 13:20:11 stassats: yes 13:20:29 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:20:31 Is it a literal call to ERROR, or is it an internal-error trap sort of situation? 13:20:33 tcr: no way 13:21:11 Or are you calling, say, THROW, and getting a no-such-tag sort of error? 13:21:53 i am calling a method, which calls othe methods, where suddenly an accessor is missing. That part of the stack is missing 13:22:04 *prxq* scratches head 13:22:27 A whole lot of tail-calling going on? 13:22:30 instead i get: "0: ((FLET #:FUN[SCRATCHPAD-IV]1107) #)" 13:22:49 nyef: maybe... 13:23:08 I am using (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) 13:23:09 Can you kill TCO via declare notinline? 13:23:34 something like (declaim notinline) on the repl? 13:23:44 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-207.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 No, in the method definitions. 13:23:59 Hrm. 13:24:25 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:29 And you're using CLOS, and I'm -completely lost- when it comes to figuring out anything that PCL does. 13:25:37 stassats: could you also add documentation for `A' (sldb-break-with-system-debugger) for me, please? 13:26:35 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:54 -!- hans__ [~5b7356bf@gateway/web/freenode/x-dxfjskvspzkoeorx] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:27:14 tcr: ok 13:30:02 no, the notinline does not work eithe 13:32:57 nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has joined #lisp 13:33:12 tcr pasted "for stassats: notes on how to debug slime" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96713 13:35:35 too bad it's not scheme, and you can't save stack instead of doing M-x slime-toggle-debug-on-swank-error and trying to reproduce it 13:36:03 well, you can save stack trace 13:36:45 maybe there should be M-x "show backtrace of the last swank error" 13:37:05 What for? Usually you can reproduce just easily 13:37:13 and it matches with emacs' toggle-debug-on-error 13:37:50 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37:59 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:06 it would be easier to reproduce if you have a backtrace 13:38:16 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:38:43 reproduce is "do whatever you just did in Emacs" 13:39:15 that's if you know what you did 13:39:35 c'm on :-) 13:39:38 Does emacs keep a keystroke history? 13:39:46 yup 13:40:01 How do you get at it? 13:40:03 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:40:39 C-h l 13:40:49 Ooh. 13:41:01 Ah, view-lossage. 13:41:14 No wonder it wasn't obvious. 13:43:13 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:06 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:02 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:09 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-207.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:39 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-241-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:13 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 maden_ [~maden@dsl-147-58.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 13:54:08 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:55:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:03 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:31 -!- rares [~rares@174-17-90-2.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:12 -!- stettber1er is now known as stettberger 14:05:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:51 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:06:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 rares [~rares@174-17-90-2.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:07 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:08:42 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:33 moah [~gnu@188.109.123.223] has joined #lisp 14:09:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:09:54 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 14:11:26 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 14:13:58 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:22:23 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.218.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:57 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 14:28:09 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f664103-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:45 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 I can't decide which web framework to use 14:42:04 Oh, that's easy: Find a simple web server and write your own framework. 14:42:08 Mainly, my hesitation is between weblocks and rails 14:42:35 nyef: oh i'm not that smart 14:43:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:12 Can't help you with that hesitation, I'm afraid. 14:44:13 How do you convince yourself to use lisp over the latest trendy language that you will find a ton of resources for ? 14:45:06 Easily: Lisp is my default, it's using the -other- languages that would require convincing. 14:45:40 *pragma_* snorts derisively. 14:45:44 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 14:45:45 Easy: Lisp has existed for 50 years: it won't be displaced by the NEXT trendy language. 14:46:24 yeah, that's why there's so many lisp jobs available for hiring 14:46:42 Exactly, for the very same reason. 14:47:19 There's a constant number of lisp jobs, that are fully staffed. When you have a new trendy language, you must hire whole new teams with ten years of experience in that trendy language... 14:47:39 ... even if said trendy language has only been around for three years. 14:47:50 Of course, that takes you ten years, and in the mean time, the trendy language has changed twice. 14:48:18 just hire three people 14:49:02 I'd argue that the number of lisp jobs is less constant than the number of steve jobs. 14:49:37 But eventually the number of steve jobs will fall down to 0. 14:49:50 Since making more lisp jobs is straightforward, but making more steve jobs would be harder. 14:50:07 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:50:19 just clone the damn thing 14:51:40 Well, that'd help settle the nature-vs.-nurture question a bit, but it'd be expensive, and almost certainly wouldn't be a drop-in replacement. 14:56:32 So, anyway, we have -one- steve jobs, and eventually we'll have -zero- steve jobs, which means that the variation is fairly small. Meanwhile, creating lisp jobs is a matter of hiring someone to do some lisp programming. 14:57:59 Thus, the number of steve jobs (an integer between 0 and 1 inclusive) is less variable (more constant) than the number of lisp jobs. 15:00:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:00:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 Anyone has tried the datahand keyboard ? 15:00:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:34 That's got to be interesting to learn to control. 15:03:31 The side-to-side action on the ring finger, particularly. 15:10:34 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:12:02 getting used to kinesis took about a week... i'd certainly try it if it wasn't $1000... :/ 15:25:32 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:29:49 koollman [~samson_t@87-98-172-67.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:03 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:42:12 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has left #lisp 15:42:44 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:43:40 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:43:56 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:44:56 upward: I know someone who uses one 15:45:20 or rather, they're in the next room. I could pass on a simple question 15:47:59 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-197-119.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 15:51:18 mmm das keyboard. 15:53:08 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 15:53:45 upward: I thought lisp was the latest trendy language :-P 15:54:54 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:12 upward: "RSI: A computer user's guid" recommends against small finger movements; the data hand thing is pretty much bound to hurt (: 15:55:15 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:35 "guide". heh. 15:55:49 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:56:33 *stassats* slaps keyboard with a fist 15:57:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:33 the gist of their advice is to move your hands and arms as you type. 15:58:07 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:07 bipt` [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:12 the gist of my advice is that we don't have the same bones, so each to his own! 15:59:28 I've found rotating the shoulders backwards deals with 80% of my RSI issues.. I highly recommend the Fingerworks keyboard. 16:00:35 "Fingerworks has ceased operations as a business" - http://www.fingerworks.com/ 16:00:56 (I typed on a kinesis for years (got my first RSI attack then), then switched to a fingerworks, and have typed happily typing on a wireless apple aluminium one for some time now. 16:01:26 generally, I'd say a good chair and exercise make you more productive (and less sick) than a keyboard of any quality can. 16:02:32 antifuchs: agreed, and the http://www.powerballs.com/rehab.php?m=Benefits is a quick way to bring exercise to the parts that matter most :-) 16:02:40 (your hands, that is..) 16:02:47 upward: regarding "convincing" myself to use lisp - after reading PCL I had to convince myself *not* to use it 16:02:53 *nunb* means wrists, really 16:03:01 antifuchs: agreed. However a Das Keyboard III is a pleasure! :-) 16:03:28 informal poll: what are the shortcomings of smalltalk, in practical use, compared to lisp? 16:03:49 nunb: hm, for me it was exercise that increases strength in the back & core. but those power balls are fun (: 16:03:50 obvious ones: no macros, no tree-syntax 16:03:54 maden__ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:04:28 advantages: stack-frames on the heap, easier continuations, serialization of functions into images and disk .. 16:04:40 nunb: evem more image-based development, and less accessibility of good & cheap (preferably free) implementations? On top of language-related stuff, I mean. 16:04:48 antifuchs: that too, but I started rehab with pbs, and they are sure fun (noisy though). 16:05:17 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:53 -!- maden__ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:02 p_l: *have* to view classes through ide, and yes, image based dev. But in some ways similar to lisp-machines env-wise 16:06:04 maden__ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:06:30 nunb: my short experiences with genera don't really agree... 16:06:49 otoh, I recall one lisp that was implemented this way 16:07:05 p_l: I see. I was thinking about it being the same language all the way down, and easy access to source of fns (for everything) and docs 16:07:33 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:08:33 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:39 btw, another of my "polls regarding possibly stupid ideas": what do you guys think of automatically concatenating *finished* fasls of libraries into single files? 16:09:32 you can concatenate fasls in sbcl, iirc 16:09:46 p_l: I know that some lisps do this for distribution of modules. it won't improve load time by much, though (: 16:10:55 antifuchs: it would help however if you went for elf-stored fasls ;-) 16:11:28 Unhammerd [~user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 16:11:49 but I was thinking more of convenience 16:13:27 -!- Unhammer [~user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:41 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:14:15 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.8.9] has joined #lisp 16:15:51 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 16:16:14 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:06 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:35 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:43 Heh. Keyboards. The easiest way for me to kill my wrists for most of a week is to spend a day trying to use one of those contoured ergonomic keyboards for real work. 16:21:10 nyef: the kinesis ones ? 16:21:42 I was more thinking the microsoft ones. 16:22:59 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:54 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:39 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-54-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:52 -!- maden__ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:53 nikodemus: Hey, I have a question about your response to UWP + DX. 16:29:55 My understanding is that the cleanup-fun is invoked with the same frame pointer as the function setting the UWP, so why does the compiler box value cells for that nasty consing case? 16:30:12 p_l: in clisp too you can concatenate FASl files (which are sexp files). 16:36:19 -!- bipt` [~bpt@cl-509.qas-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:58 nyef: let me check 16:42:23 okflo` [~user@93-82-153-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:44:13 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242356783.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:45:54 -!- okflo [~user@91-115-86-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:48:51 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@p5084EB1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:54 -!- okflo` is now known as okflo 16:48:57 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@p5084EB1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:48:57 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:51:53 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242356783.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 16:52:26 how come that (locally (declare #+sbcl(sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-kernel:redefinition-warning)) ...) doesn't always protect me from redefinition warnings? 16:52:37 maybe at load time it has no effect? 16:53:15 Seems reasonable, the redefinition comes in via a different path at load time. 16:53:21 nyef: now that i look at this again it seems my mental model is missing somerhing 16:53:37 Yes, but does the example actually cons? 16:53:49 And, if so, -why-? 16:54:02 nyef: well, those TIME calls were not faked, so yes 16:54:33 then put it different: is there an easy way to tell sbcl to muffle redefinition warnings both at load and at compile time? 16:55:06 poking at it i cannot get it to execute the (,cleanup-fun) call at all -- it seems to only execute it via the reference grabbed by %CLEANUP-FUN 16:55:08 Muffle them around the load, maybe? 16:56:03 nikodemus: Try a catch/throw, possibly declaring the throw notinline? 16:56:11 attila_lendvai: redefine the type SB-KERNEL:UNINTERESTING-REDEFINITION? 16:56:48 but yeah, a HANDLER-BIND + MUFFLE-WARNING restart should do it as well 16:56:58 (I'd suspect a notinline throw might cons its arglist, but it doesn't -need- to, so if it does then that's another bug.) 16:57:03 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 hrm. it's a local kludge to lower dependencies, so i've just added both a locally and a handler-bind... and just ignore the ugliness in the ugliness... 16:57:34 (locally (declare (ignore-ugliness ...)) ...)? 16:59:48 nyef, (locally (declare #+sbcl(sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-kernel:redefinition-warning)) (handler-bind (#+sbcl(sb-kernel:redefinition-warning #'muffle-warning)) ...)) 16:59:53 blerg, now i'm even more confused 17:00:27 nikodemus: Start with a trace-file? 17:01:39 ok, so a THROW from a cleanup executes the code starting under (declare (optimize (insert-debug-catch-tag 0))) 17:06:33 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:44 francogrex [~user@171.103-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:06:56 Hi 17:07:11 Hello francogrex. 17:08:04 nyef: Hey; all is ok? anything new/exciting? 17:11:28 Everything's mostly okay. I'm messing about with some graphics editing tool, taking a break from trying to figure out how to make opengl do things, and puzzling over an aspect of metabolism that isn't matching my expectations. 17:12:55 (I'm probably going to have to run a series of experiments over the course of a week or so on the metabolic thing.) 17:13:09 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:13:39 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:42 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:13:42 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 17:13:42 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:14:10 nyef: pardon my ignorance; opengl I understand but the metabolism thing? Is it related to technical/prog or biology? 17:14:23 Biology. 17:14:51 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.146.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:24 nyef: ? Biology; I hope it's nothing bad with your health 17:15:30 nyef: are you doing some computations related to it? 17:15:49 No, it's just something odd I realized maybe an hour or so ago. 17:16:25 nyef: do you want to talk about it; I happend to have a phd in medical sciences (but not a clinician) 17:16:49 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:17:35 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 Well, my observation was that I'm having breakfast at about 9:30, give or take, and sometimes I'm hungry again fairly soon afterwards and sometimes it takes until 12:30-1:00. 17:20:17 And I think the difference might be drinking coffee on the days that I get hungry later. 17:21:21 Largely because the coffee involves somewhere north of 8 fluid oz of milk. 17:21:22 nyef: from the description, that doesn't seem serious; I'm often hungry all the time. Hunger is affected by many factors including our mental state (if we're anxious /stressed, busy etc....) 17:21:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 17:22:42 No, it's not serious, but... if there's a reason that I can find, it might be a parameter I can control. 17:22:55 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:25 nyef: well quite probably then it's your coffee/milk... I wouldn't worry about it unless it starts showing signs of gaining/losing important amount of weight 17:24:08 I'm not worried, I'm curious. 17:25:33 coffee defers feeling of hunger 17:26:09 nyef, probably depends on what you have for breakfast though... 17:26:47 usually a high protein diet reduces hunger 17:26:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:26:54 I eat once a day, on evenings. Would probably not have been possible on SAD. Have a peek at http://paleonu.com/get-started 17:27:07 tic: Yeah, been reading that site a bit. 17:27:19 Which got me curious about biochemistry again. 17:29:26 I like Kurt's writings. WholeHealthSource and Hyperlipid are good, too. 17:29:32 biochemistry as in? 17:30:11 How things work at a cellular and sub-cellular level. 17:30:24 francogrex, I think of it the other way around; high-carb diets increase hunger. 17:31:07 caffeine increases adrenaline and noradrenaline which increases fatty-acid oxidation. giving a slight insulin resistance, on the other hand. 17:31:43 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 17:31:57 -!- Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.66.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:27 i find the latest sbcl to be a tad unstable. 17:34:16 a compile-file error led to a corrupted fasl, which in turn ended killing it 17:34:20 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:48 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:34:56 ... Why were you loading a fasl when the compile that produced it failed? 17:35:18 i was retrying an asdf:load-op 17:35:24 nyef: maybe your body turned the metabolism higher 17:35:42 -!- francogrex [~user@171.103-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Telephone Call] 17:35:54 nyef: i have been having that experience (variation in the time i get hungry) for a long time :-) 17:36:21 anecdotally, I get warmer from eating a low-carb/low-n6 "diet" (at energy balance). 17:36:30 *p_l* can eat quite a lot, and lately started dreaming of simply pigging out on what some might consider to be unhealthy... 17:36:31 re sbcl, also, i keep getting weird file descriptor errors. 17:36:42 prxq: On a fixed diet, or with variation between meals within the same time period each day? 17:36:43 p_l, which is? 17:37:24 nyef: fixed diet, pretty much 17:37:46 Hunger is in large controlled by the hormone ghrelin that gets secreted from the gut when you usually have your meals, and secondary, blood glucose levels (e.g. if you eat lots of starch). See http://leangains.blogspot.com/2009/08/ghrelin-and-entrained-meal-patterns.html 17:37:46 at least the variation in diet was slower than the variation in hunger :-) 17:37:53 tic: lots chicken, bacon, beef, eggs, milk, rice, pasta, pepperoni, certain vegetables (mostly carrots & peas) etc. 17:38:21 with lot of frying on deep oil 17:39:04 p_l, take away the pasta and make sure the "deep oil" isn't high in omega n-6, and it sounds healthy enough. 17:39:18 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 17:40:26 tic: when it comes to healthy diets, I'm thinking of going over an old cooking book when I visit my family. It contained diets tailored for weather, body type, illness if any etc. Handy when you don't have dietician to call :-) 17:40:51 p_l, good idea. generally, eat what your great-great grandmother had, and you should be fine. 17:41:20 as for oil, I was always using vegetable oil (sometimes, rarely, olive). Fish is also good - I love sushi and japanese&chinese food :-) 17:41:23 This approach works even better if said great-great grandmother is still in good health today. 17:41:44 (As unlikely as that is, why argue with success?) 17:42:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:11 vegetable oil is horrible. 17:42:30 canola/rape seed oil and olive oil is acceptible. 17:42:52 tic: the book was released sometime in 60's-70's I think, written with enough information for someone who never learned too cook (that is, it contains more than just recipes - it contains also all the necessary basic knowledge on how to use tools etc.) 17:42:52 nyef, well...I'm more referring to neolithic food. Like many frankenoils. 17:42:56 prxq: do you have a test-case that produces a corrupt fasl? 17:43:50 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:43:59 nyef: regarding coffee with lots of milk - it was one of the boons of working in big corporation while having friends in financial dept, who had offices just under CEO... we routinely stole the rights to use their coffee maker :D 17:44:29 prxq pasted "sometimes slime crashes like this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96715 17:44:48 *p_l* turned tea and coffee into energy drinks rivaling anything sold 17:45:39 nikodemus: it is not small right now; i'll try to cook one up. But shouldn't compile-file remove the fasl if something worse than a warning happened? 17:46:07 back to lisp - anyone lately deployed a desktop app on windows? 17:46:35 prxq: Yes, I know, I'm not sure it's SBCL or actually an Emacs bug 17:46:39 Let's stay with nutrition: What's with the conflicting advice about diets that induce ketosis? 17:46:49 prxq: You can just M-x slime again and press `n' on the question 17:46:55 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Input/output error] 17:47:34 tcr: oh i get it to work. But it contributes to the flaky feeling of all this. 17:47:35 nyef: I'll say simply to visit a professional dietician and be attentive to what you *feel* you want to eat. 17:47:49 tcr: do you also see erratic file-descriptor errors? 17:47:51 nyef, what do you mean there? 17:48:03 nyef, you mean that some argue they're unhealthy and some they're not? 17:48:07 Yeah. 17:48:41 prxq: in what context? 17:48:55 nyef, check out "seven country study" by ancel keys. Introduced the hypothesis that saturated fat is unhealthy for you. Which has been refuted time and time again. That's really all there is to it. And everything else is based on that. 17:48:56 nyef: "Ketosis is deliberately induced in the ketogenic diet used to treat epilepsy. Other uses of low-carbohydrate diets remain controversial." <--- from wikipedia 17:49:16 epilepsy and bipolarity. 17:49:50 tcr: hard to say. Normally after an error of a different type has happened, and i press q. Then suddenly there is a "bad file descriptor" error that I can't exit from. I can let it live in its own buffer without ever bothering me again 17:50:10 nyef, well, what particular aspects of ketogenic diets being bad for you are you thinking of? Cholesterol? The bad type of cholesterol, oxLDL, you get from eating carbs. Higher triglycerides also from carbs. low-carb is used to treat fatty liver disease, type 2 diabetes and epilepsy. I'll be damned if *that's* a bad thign. 17:50:30 prxq: No idea, what does the backtrace contain? 17:51:31 *p_l* suspects that he has a rather high-carb diet when he can eat instead of "getting by" 17:51:45 tcr: i'll document it when it happens again 17:52:09 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:52:34 tic: Yeah, it's the vague idea that such dietary regimes -outside- of treatment for specific disorders isn't good. I'm not sure what to believe, other than that I need to do more reading, 17:52:47 (and oh, ketogenic diets are often useful when treating cancer, see Otto Warburg ~1930) 17:53:24 nyef, right, as if you were healthy and started doing low-carb (or anything but SAD/WHO), you'd actually /get/ the diseases that the very same diet actually treats? Hmm.. I see a fallacy here! 17:54:23 tic: cancer is too random though to just assume that a certain kind of diet helps, I guess. 17:55:05 p_l, many a cancer type rely exclusively on fermenting glucose. 17:55:25 also, isotope glucose injections are used to track cancer cells.... 17:55:42 cancer is not very well understood 17:55:47 Indeed, it is not. 17:55:56 tic: unless the treatment is considered a "necessary evil" - the reasons against ketogenic diets weren't related to the fact that they are used for treatment of any illness 17:56:06 "Cancer as a metabolic disease" http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/7 17:56:12 so i'd treat such stories with a healthy dose of salt 17:56:34 p_l, no, but I'm saying that if they /do/ cure many illnesses (save for cancer, then), it doesn't make any sense that it would also /induce/ them. 17:56:39 tic: glucose injections are simple - cancer cells burn more energy, so they will accumulate more of the isotope 17:56:52 p_l, right, but you couldn't do that with ketones... 17:56:55 like, MCT fat. 17:57:14 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 -!- rares [~rares@174-17-90-2.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:58:08 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 I'm used to carbs for a very simplke reason - they are easy to burn if you don't let them store themselves. I seem like couch potato to many, but that's because I don't like others to see how I burn them (personal preference, not related to activities) 17:58:58 hehe, sure. ;) 17:59:08 tic: the history of the field is paved with articles like that. Unfortunately. Maybe they are right, though. 17:59:12 yeah, if you're active and have high insulin sensitivity, go nuts on the carbs. for anyone else, well.. 17:59:48 tic: It was oft-mentioned by my family that I can eat quite a lot and barely notice it 18:00:05 but 55-65E% carbs is ... not understandable. especially if you eat white rice, pasta & bread -- no micronutrients, just energy. 18:00:12 p_l, well, wait until you get 30-35.... 18:00:45 prxq: yes -- we should not be leaving corrupt fasls around 18:00:45 tic: I plan on spending time getting enough money to pay for a professional to do a personal evaluation by then :P 18:01:03 given a test case fixing that should not be hard 18:01:32 nikodemus: i am failing at comming up with a smaller test case. I'll keep trying. 18:01:37 I saw corrupt fasls, too, in past. No idea what triggered it though 18:02:10 Isn't it something like interrupting the UWP cleanup clause which's responsible for removing the fasls? 18:02:11 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:15 ikki [~ikki@189.139.131.87] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:22 akop annotated #96702 "Warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96702#2 18:06:06 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 18:08:34 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:09:04 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082E061.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:06 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.209] has left #lisp 18:12:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:46 milanj [~milan@79.101.196.207] has joined #lisp 18:14:03 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BBC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:13 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:21:38 jao [~jao@83.50.65.250] has joined #lisp 18:22:53 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:05 What's the granularity of timers in SBCL on linux? 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I have some idea as to how to recover from that, but knowing how to cause it might help in making it not happen anymore. 19:28:11 nyef: unfortunately it happens erratically 19:28:21 (you might also directly call instruction-level timer, but it has problems when you aren't bound to single cpu) 19:28:49 That is unfo... wait. Are you dealing with raw file descriptors anywhere? 19:29:13 no. 19:29:16 Hrm. 19:29:46 Can you call fd-stream-fd on that stream? 19:30:00 a colleague sugested that it might be related to matlisp being loaded 19:30:17 nyef: i'll try to trigger that again 19:30:23 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 19:30:31 but matlisp does no fd business. 19:32:26 And, if so, try (setf (sb-sys:fd-stream-fd ) (sb-unix:unix-open "/dev/null" sb-unix:o_rdwr 0)) 19:33:45 (Which won't fix your problem, and may kill your lisp, but at least provides the stream with a "good" file descriptor... for some sense of "good".) 19:34:16 normally what i do is bury the buffer, and then i can continue working 19:34:57 this has been happening for about a year, really, i'm just in the mood to complain today :-) 19:35:08 jokes aside, 19:35:37 i've managed to convince some people to try all of this out, and now i'm worried about the flakiness. 19:35:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:41:06 BTW, since I didn't get any response previously - anyone here doing development for *desktop* windows app (in CL)? 19:42:05 Ah, damn, I have to go. Back in a few hours. 19:42:07 GUI-in-browser need not apply - I somehow doubt JS' ability to deal with big images from 8MPixel camera ;-) 19:44:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:12 jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:34 -!- Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:49:23 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:41 -!- maden__ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:46 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3664, sources date: 20090924, built on: 2009-12-03 14:48:48 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:58:28 chessguy [~chessguy@pool-96-255-155-17.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:00 mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:59:26 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:59:51 netytan [~netytan@85.211.55.31] has joined #lisp 20:00:53 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.55.31] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:03 mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@60.53.130.214] has quit [Quit: lukego] 20:13:01 Day 1 screenshot for CONSIX - http://i.imgur.com/RByAI.png 20:13:50 pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 20:14:06 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:09 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:35 -!- pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:50 pjb [~t@122.Red-79-149-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:58 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-13-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:18:33 Using sbcl, how can you write a raw float to a stream? 20:18:52 in what format? 20:18:59 adeht: awesome 20:19:20 stassats: I want to open the resulting file I write to in audacity. 20:19:22 Kasmene_Marco [~Marco@93-46-35-39.ip105.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:19:24 lhz: there was some package that serialized data into IEEE format 20:19:52 lhz: you know there're different formats for floating point representation? 20:19:59 minion: ieee-floats? 20:20:00 ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 20:20:00 sbcl has in src/compiler/dump.lisp some dump-float that looks useful. 20:20:06 fcbr [~f@c-71-231-182-52.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:06 -!- fcbr [~f@c-71-231-182-52.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:21:21 stassats: wouldn't sbcl keep them in ieee format, so it can easy serve it to the fpu? At the audacity I'm using raw-import, so I guess it is expecting ieee 20:22:22 lhz: cpus tend not to adhere to IEEE exactly 20:23:03 My current non-working approach is: (let ((addr (sb-sys:int-sap (sb-debug::get-lisp-obj-address floatvar)))) (write-byte (sb-sys:sap-ref-8 addr 0) s) ...) 20:24:24 -!- Kasmene_Marco [~Marco@93-46-35-39.ip105.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:24 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 20:24:45 don't you like ieee-floats? 20:24:58 Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:25:17 ahoy all. How would I programmatically obtain the current call stack? 20:25:38 Shaftoe_: that's implementation dependent 20:25:39 (or a human readable string representation of it)? 20:25:41 sbcl 20:25:48 Shaftoe_: depends on the implementation. you could look at what sb-sprof does to do it. 20:25:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 20:26:08 allright. sb-sprof it is. thanks. 20:26:21 stassats: I just dont have it loaded. But thanks for telling me, I guess I'll end up using it :) 20:26:39 thanks. 20:26:41 lhz: for example, x87 used 80bit long floats, not 64bit. Then there's 128bit fpus... or cpus like alpha, which sometimes require a different math library if you want proper IEEE in C 20:27:10 Shaftoe_: did you get rid of slime-over-ssh compilation notes slowness? 20:27:31 stassats: no, I haven't updated my slime yet. Have you patched the current tree? 20:27:55 i didn't commit it, because i can't test it myself 20:28:10 and one question, is it as slow when doing M-. 20:29:16 chekcing. what is M-. for you? 20:29:47 M-. runs the command slime-edit-definition 20:30:08 it should be done in some tramp file pointing into another tramp file 20:30:30 aright. was just checking. 20:30:50 no, M-. is not snappy, but it's not slow either. 20:30:54 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:59 Shaftoe_: ok, try this: http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/slime.diff 20:32:31 alright. is it ok if I do this later today? I'm currently working. 20:33:07 it's okay, you can leave me a message through minion 20:33:11 (I'll be able to take a break in about an hour) 20:33:12 ok. 20:33:19 tell me how I do that with minion? 20:33:28 minion: help memos? 20:33:29 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 20:33:51 alright. great. 20:33:52 thanks. 20:35:50 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:11 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.60.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:02 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.60.112] has joined #lisp 20:40:42 pickles [~ann@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:33 afternoon all 20:41:46 i have a couple of common lisp questions if anyone has a few 20:41:58 i have a few 20:42:09 sweet 20:42:11 ok 20:42:32 i have a function that has a handler case 20:42:50 and in the handler-case it has a recursive call to the function 20:42:55 it's tail recursive 20:43:08 p_l: it looks like 80bit float came as late as SSE2, how would a 486 store a double-float? And, could you compile sbcl on a 486? 20:43:10 lisppaste: url? 20:43:10 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 20:43:20 pickles: just paste it 20:43:26 ah, true 20:43:33 1 sec, i'ts on my non-networked laptop 20:44:04 lhz: sbcl doesn't use SSE2 on x86-32 20:44:36 is it a bad idea to use (gensym) if I need to talk about something unique? I'd like to have _something_ which is eq equal only to itself 20:44:51 clhs make-symbol 20:44:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_sym.htm 20:44:59 madnificent: use a cons 20:45:12 tcr: I was thinking about that... Is that better in some way? 20:45:19 stassats: I don't need/want to supply a name 20:45:30 it's just two-words, symbols usually take a few more 20:45:53 ok, thanks 20:46:06 not that it'll probably matter :-) 20:46:26 I'd like for it to be as small as possible... but no, it probably doesn't :) 20:46:40 I didn't want to make the symbol space dirty 20:47:02 stassats: thank you too 20:47:13 pickles pasted "recursive handler-case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96721 20:47:18 ok 20:47:42 i know tail-recursive function calls get optimized into loops 20:47:57 im wondering if it'll do something similar for the handler case, or if it'll just keep stacking them 20:48:03 or overwrite? 20:48:18 they _might_ be optimized, but don't have to 20:48:39 yeah, sbcl is hardwired to use ieee, and as early as 387 supports it. 20:48:42 you could disassemble the function and see how it was compiled. 20:49:38 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.123.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:54 disassembling would be a good exercise 20:50:10 and a chance to further wet my n00b feet 20:50:12 does anyone know if I can set a filter for tramp when I do C-x C-f on a directory 20:50:32 e.g. C-x C-f /foo/bar/baz/*.lisp 20:50:45 dired works over tramp. 20:50:53 Demosthenes [~demo@12.187.12.206] has joined #lisp 20:50:58 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.8.9] has quit [] 20:51:28 as an alternate to signaling i was thinking of using a tagbody and some go's 20:51:40 Fade: can you give me an example usage? 20:51:57 pickles: common lisp doesn't require TCO, so it's not optimal if you want portable code 20:52:07 just visit the directory as you would normally visit a file over tramp, and it'll open in dired. 20:52:15 TCO? 20:52:24 tail-call optimization 20:52:27 ah 20:52:30 Fade: yeah, that's what I'm doing, but I'd like to view only .lisp files 20:52:34 c-x c-f fade@host.com... 20:52:59 then from dired you can select the lisp files and open them. 20:53:16 but I don't think you can give a globbing operator to visit file. 20:53:24 stassats: does it do TCO when you tell it to optimize the function? 20:53:26 Fade: i can't connect to host.com with such username! 20:53:29 Fade: that's my current usage. Except that I have my tramp set to create backups. so my directory is litered with lisp.~1~ files 20:53:45 pickles: no, common lisp standard doesn't say anything about it 20:53:54 pickles: some implementation do it, some don't 20:53:55 Shaftoe_: yeah, that's a pain. 20:53:56 alright. 20:54:01 I set a backup directory in my .emacs 20:54:14 you set it as something differenet or what? 20:54:18 different 20:54:23 mm 20:54:52 (setq backup-directory-alist '(("." . "~/.emacs-backups"))) 20:54:59 Dawgmatix_ [~Dawgmatix@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:09 I see. 20:55:21 does it build a shadow directory tree in there? 20:55:27 or do they all end up side by side? 20:55:29 which keeps the '~' chaff out of my working dirs. 20:56:13 it keeps a tagged backup format in a flat directory. 20:56:43 alright. I guess that's better than nothing. 20:56:57 stassats: the function's kinda going to be a main loop for a program that I expect to keep going back to the handler-case and recursing, so I'm wanting to make sure it doesn't exceed the stack limit or anything 20:57:12 clhs loop 20:57:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 20:57:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:30 (loop (print "HELLO") (sleep 1)) 20:57:53 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-207.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:01:11 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:01:52 that might be an option... 21:01:59 looks like it's time for some documentation diving 21:02:13 thanks stassats 21:02:18 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~Dawgmatix@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Dawgmatix_] 21:03:09 -!- jwr7 [~jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has quit [Quit: jwr7] 21:04:44 man, the emacs configuration screens are like an easter egg hunt. 21:05:29 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:05:48 I just edit it as a buffer 21:06:05 the interface that is supposed to make it easy seems to make it worse. :) 21:12:26 Skewb [~Skewb@62.32.128.252] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 Hi. 21:13:10 lhz: 80bit came from 387 at latest - SSE would be rather unhappy with it, as it afaik does operations on 4x32bit or 2x64bit values, last time I checked. AVX does 8x32 and 4x64, I think 21:16:20 faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 Fade: it sure does. 21:17:01 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:33 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:49 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:53 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6643cb-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 21:18:21 clbuild issue: warning: no dependencies for command-line-arguments found 21:18:24 is that known? 21:21:01 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756509.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:10 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:23:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@trevor.etla.org] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:24:43 -!- Unhammerd [~user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 21:27:45 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:39 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-93169.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:00 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:06 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-26-145.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:31 konr [~konrad@187.88.200.177] has joined #lisp 21:40:21 -!- okflo [~user@93-82-153-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:25 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:00 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:18 ha hah... from earlier conversation: getting a stack back trace is easy as pie. 21:47:28 sb-debug:backtrace 21:48:22 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:33 CLtL2 should have been the first book I purchased. That book rawks! 21:48:59 bytecolor: how newbie-frendly is it? I haven't read it 21:49:12 better than CLHS 21:49:59 prxq: it's awsome, tons of examples and immense detail 21:50:40 stassats: :-) 21:50:52 how much does it differ from ANSI? 21:50:57 stassats: i actually tried that as a newbie 21:51:04 tic: not much 21:51:38 alright. maybe something to add to the ol' collection. 21:51:55 http://bc.tech.coop/cltl2-ansi.htm 21:52:26 thanks! that's not too bad. 21:52:46 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:56:19 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has joined #lisp 21:57:08 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has quit [Client Quit] 21:57:18 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has joined #lisp 22:01:41 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:01:52 what was the method to override for format to print customized output for a particular class again? 22:02:11 clhs print-object 22:02:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pr_obj.htm 22:02:33 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 thanks 22:05:20 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:48 nice, (dump-integer-as-bytes (sb-fasl::single-float-bits a-float-var) 4 stream) works, where dump-integer-as-bytes is a generic version from src/compiler/dump.lisp:dump-integer-as-n-bytes. 22:06:19 it works until it doesn't 22:06:27 to read it back it audacity I must normalize the data between -1 to 1. 22:06:40 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:44 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-117-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:09:09 TR2N [email@89-180-180-247.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:09:49 there's something so carnal and violent about blowing through your stack and having the image just quit. 22:09:49 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:22 I feel like it should make a crackling thunder sound as it does it =) 22:15:48 minion: ieee-floats 22:15:49 ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 22:16:15 lhz: maybe you were looking for that? 22:16:45 i showed that already 22:16:48 erjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:16:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@g227021051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:17:17 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:21:28 akopa annotated #96702 "Made sure mutators return the object they mutate. Used separate return values for save-continuation and within-initial-continuation exits." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96702#3 22:25:58 tcr: thanks! it was suggested earlier.. though I like to pop the hood once in a while 22:28:06 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:28:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:06 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 22:30:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:41 arnee [~arnee@a89-182-23-67.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 22:33:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:07 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:39:45 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:00 -!- jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:41:00 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:41:04 jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 22:41:04 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 22:44:38 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:47:01 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-93169.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:47:18 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8BD2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:42 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:44 benny [~benny@i577A7F69.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:31 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:43 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:52:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:53:26 -!- faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:43 faux` [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:57:58 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:58:22 -!- arnee [~arnee@a89-182-23-67.net-htp.de] has quit [Quit: arnee] 22:59:46 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-167-152.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:53 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has joined #lisp 23:01:17 -!- erjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:13 would it be possible to destructure bind *globals* within a func? (destructuring-bind (x y z) '(t nil nil)) but I want to bind the global x y and z. Will declaring them special work? 23:06:51 I despise globals, but that's how the book is written ;) 23:06:52 destructuring-bind doesn't do anything magical with variables 23:07:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:55 why would you want to do this is another question 23:08:42 bytecolor: it works the way it ought to 23:08:51 stassats: heh, well there are 11 globals I want to assign at each iteration of a loop, just looking for a succinct wat of doing it 23:08:58 stassats: that is the most important question, about half the question i have asked on #lisp where answered by that question ;) 23:09:10 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d82d41.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:13 Shaftoe_ pasted "destructuring on globals" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96734 23:09:58 bytecolor: eleven variables? that doesn't sound sane to me 23:10:12 and global variables? further so 23:11:06 bytecolor: I think you have the impression it doesn't work because that destructuring-bind doesn't have effect *outside* of its scope. but that's how special variables work 23:11:16 -!- pickles [~ann@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 23:11:21 (c.f. my example) 23:12:02 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:12:31 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:58 Shaftoe_: nod 23:13:11 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:13:27 rickmode [~rickmode@pool-98-112-173-63.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:41 bytecolor: haivng "solved" your problem, I'd redirect your question to what stassats said though ;) 23:13:53 s/haivng/having/ 23:13:53 so, *x* will be bound in any call made from test 23:14:06 correct. dynamic scope. 23:14:06 it's not my code! ;) 23:14:14 from a book 23:14:21 what book? 23:14:50 -!- konr [~konrad@187.88.200.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:23 Koza's first book on genetic programming, he uses globals a lot, programs are generated dynamically, then eval'd 23:15:59 I was thinking about creating some sort of with-vars macro instead of using globals 23:17:15 can't he evolve himself a program which doesn't have changing eleven global variables in a loop? 23:17:24 ahaha 23:17:24 yeah, the problem with global variables is that they're not *exactly* the same as a static variable in C. They have this "unintended" side-effect of being dynamic and thus can potentially hold two different values seemingly simultaneously. 23:17:25 LOL 23:17:26 nice one 23:21:18 it's an 11 bit multiplexer, each bit is bound (2048 cases), then eval'd in a boolean expression, e.g. (if a2 (if a1 d6 d4) (if a2 d4 (if a1 d2 (if a2 d7 d0)))) 23:21:21 how much code is there? 23:21:21 could you not just store it as a proper structure? 23:21:21 also, you could work with what you asked regarding the "test" function. Make a main function which is the "root" of your program 23:21:21 set your dynamic state there. which, honestly, is more or less how you ought to be doing it anyways 23:22:05 well, you have to define `callbacks' for the system 23:22:07 _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:36 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:22:57 uhm. I'm no guru, but I can spot some code redundancy there =) 23:23:19 heh, it's an evolved program 23:23:42 the multiplexer? or its actual contents? 23:23:52 i'm not evolved enough to understand such programs 23:23:58 the if statement above 23:24:20 I get that. 23:24:23 but what I mean is this: 23:24:54 what is evolved, the generic functionality of a multiplexer? or the contents of that multiplexer? 23:25:09 a multiplexer is a standard thing, like a gate. 23:25:12 or a neural network 23:25:33 you could make a function called multiplex-this-data-yo (data) 23:25:42 and evolve the data to your heart's content 23:26:06 (and incidentally, feed it a vector instead of 11 globals) 23:27:07 Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex. I could pinch them. 23:27:45 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-8-63.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:28:19 bytecolor: fyi, we're all stabbing in the dark here. I'm not sure what this author is doing, so I might be off base. 23:28:22 is there also genetic debugging? 23:28:55 yes it's called having sex 23:28:57 lol 23:29:52 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-27-201.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:26 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:22 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:47 bytecolor pasted "defin fitness cases" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96735 23:41:23 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:27 list of t or nil is wasteful, why don't use bit-vectors? 23:41:43 stassats: I did that originally 23:41:46 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:38 I think I did (map 'bit-vector instead of (map 'list 23:42:41 23:43:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:24 I dont think format can iterate with ~{~} over a bit vector 23:43:33 hrm 23:43:34 (map 'list (lambda (c) (if (eq c #\1) t nil)) (format nil "~11,'0B" i)) that's horrible 23:44:43 bytecolor: I suggest you simplify that code down to its kernel. Taking out things like (if (eq c #\1) t nil) and you will start getting to something that will make you go aha 23:44:48 well, see I have to convert a sequence of bits to descrete vars for the eval'd program 23:45:21 first off, if you really want to do that, you can use intern or find-symbol and make it more programatic 23:45:26 > (if a2 (if a1 d6 d4) (if a2 d4 (if a1 d2 (if a2 d7 d0)))) how a2 can be true in the second leg of the first IF? 23:45:55 Particularly since eq doesn't work on characters ... 23:45:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:04 clear 23:46:36 stassats: typo, supposed to be a1 not a2 23:47:08 bytecolor: can you state in english what this function is meant to do? 23:47:10 see, it's pain to debug such code 23:47:45 bytecolor: start really high level. 23:47:55 stassats: well actualy it is correct, not a typo 23:48:23 bytecolor: well, then it's correctly incorrect 23:48:25 right out of the book, that if statement produces correct output for all 2048 inputs 23:48:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:55 if only programming was about producing correct answers 23:49:01 see, here's the thing: when you evolve code, it's ok to have code that's redundant and useless 23:49:11 nod 23:49:17 it's just that *we* as humans don't want to deal with that. At that point it's more "data" than it is code 23:49:24 like DNA! ;) 23:49:34 hence, the insistence on making a multiplexer function that does the work properly and data that might be noisy 23:49:38 as it is now, the code is noisy 23:49:48 twopoint718 [~chris@76.208.66.170] has joined #lisp 23:49:51 yes, like DNA 23:50:26 first off, define "Multiplexer" by this author's definition. I'm not even sure he means the same multiplexer as what would be used in say a PCI bus 23:50:56 so, what's the purpose of genetic programming? there're already enough code monkeys who can produce perfectly unreadable code 23:51:09 Shaftoe_: 3 address bits 8 data bits 23:51:35 stassats: ahaha, it's pretty fascinating stuff to me 23:51:35 bytecolor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexer#Digital_multiplexers 23:51:47 the truth table is there 23:51:51 The purpose of genetic programming is to automatically produce semioptimal programs to solve problems. 23:52:00 it contains *data*. the multiplexer can be the same for any data in there 23:52:12 It's all fairly straight-forward -- if you're confused, read Koza's book. 23:52:41 bytecolor: What is your actual problem? 23:53:55 Zhivago: my original question was how to destructure bind into globals, but I think that's been covered 23:54:53 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:54:58 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:04 You might find that a general metric such as the standard deviation from the ideal will make it simpler to evaluate candidates. 23:56:47 Zhivago: moi? 23:56:47 bytecolor: that means that you have 2^3 addresses, hence 8 data bits. So your 10 mux does this: takes 3 bits as the control code, and "choses" the correct data to output from the 8 data bits. Right? 23:56:48 bytecolor: so you interpret the 3 control bits as a number, e.g. 010 = 2, and you return (nth bits 2) 23:56:48 that's a mux 23:56:48 then, all you need to feed it is two vectors: an address vector of 3 bits, and a data vector of 8 bits. 23:56:48 or a more generalized mux function would just automatically deduce the allowable data vector size given an input address vector size 23:57:05 bytecolor: all in all, what I'm saying here is isomorphic to what you have. It's just that I represent my control strcutre as a series of bits, whereas your author uses human readable if statements. 23:58:04 nod 23:58:11 Shaftoe_: here's the actualy page from the book http://tinyurl.com/yjg9t6r 23:59:20 shaftoe: Yeah, and how will you handle recursion? 23:59:47 Zhivago: explain?