00:00:07 tom1: SBCL uses ~/.sbclrc 00:00:08 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-67-188-239-219.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 00:00:53 wgl` [~wgl@246.sub-75-205-6.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 luis: I don't have this file ~/.sbclrc, so I have to create one? 00:02:06 Yes. What do you want to do? 00:02:14 -!- wgl` [~wgl@246.sub-75-205-6.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:21 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-62-75-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:30 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:31 I want to use mcclim-truetype and it's say that I have to put a fonction (a defmethod) in the lisp's init file 00:04:02 -!- FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:17 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-216-83.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:04:25 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:04:26 and put a link of the .asd file in ~/.sbcl/system 00:04:59 -!- milanj [~milan@93.87.117.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:03 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:30 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 00:08:45 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.40.203] has quit [Quit: netytan] 00:08:56 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.23] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:10:29 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:11:54 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:26 luis: I created the ~/sbclrc and put the defmethod in, and it works! I'm so happy ihihi. Thanks 00:14:33 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:12 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:16:31 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 00:19:27 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:19:43 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:49 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:20:50 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-11-213.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:13 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:21:22 billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-69.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:22 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-69.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:21:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:23:07 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-112.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:27:35 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@173.176.100.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:33:11 -!- slyrus___ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:33:44 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:34:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 00:34:41 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:06 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:35:34 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest38927 00:37:07 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:02 luis: i've been using clozure for a while and switched to sbcl for the past few days. do you ever notice slime not seeming to kill its process properly and if you quit emacs and start a new session it forces you to start slime twice to get it to work properly 00:40:09 I was experimenting with slime-contrib and noticed the slime-sbcl-exts cause slime to fail too 00:42:39 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:44:05 enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.89.178] has joined #lisp 00:44:09 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:45:54 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:46:28 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:03 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:14 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:51:09 Phoodus [~foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:16 wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has joined #lisp 00:57:09 Pinku [~Pinku@83.231.16.119] has joined #lisp 00:58:12 ... Ugh. Bug 541584: PEBKAC. 00:58:19 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:00:28 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-113-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:04 -!- ltriant_ [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:05:52 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:07:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:08 nyef: @ me? 01:08:35 derrida: Seems unlikely. 01:08:50 No, not at you. 01:09:02 *derrida* nods 01:09:19 Someone filed a bug against SBCL for calling a macro-function twice when they expected once. 01:09:41 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 01:09:50 Though, I must admit, I'm having trouble finding anywhere in the spec that gives permission for macroexpansion to occur more than once per eval... 01:10:13 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:10 Hi. 01:14:00 I'm a win32 user (shame on me, i know) but what's a good CL system to use on Windows? 01:16:55 SBCL is fine on Windows for me 01:16:59 (no threading support though) 01:17:19 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 01:17:31 though I've heard good things about CCL (Clozure) 01:17:45 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:16 SBCL crashes a lot for me 01:18:28 what sorts of things are you doing? 01:18:33 but only on windows, on linux works fine. 01:18:42 (and I'm even on XP Pro 64, the most unsupported Windows evar) 01:18:54 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:18:55 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@178.182.1.26.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:01 Nothing serious, working my way through euler project problems. 01:19:13 Let me guess... you're hitting C-c a bit? 01:19:46 running out of memory? 01:19:48 Not if i remember well, but could be. 01:19:53 (vs 64 bit linux or something?) 01:19:54 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.187.148.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:20:00 Or, umm... using two UWPs in the same stack frame is known to be broken right now. 01:20:31 Can't be fixed memory maps, that'd show up as a failure to start, not a crash... 01:20:32 Phoodus, yes, it crashes with an out of memory error message 01:20:33 UWP? 01:20:41 ekpneo: unwind-protect. 01:20:47 Pinku: and your linux is 64-bit? 01:20:48 ah, sorry. noted 01:20:57 ekpneo: No, no. It was a fair question. 01:20:58 Pinku: I recommend CCL 01:21:13 Phoodus, no, it's archlinux 32 bit 01:21:19 the same programs work fine there 01:21:47 huh, well try out CCL I guess 01:21:48 p_l, thanks, i'll download it and test. 01:22:06 There are some known problems with UNC filespecs, and I imagine that alien code with strange calling conventions would break the backtracer... 01:22:09 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:20 i'm not really using much memory, but a lot of funcalls and recursive functions 01:22:21 And god help you if you do anything involving multiple threads. 01:22:36 so probably tail call problems 01:22:40 You might be blowing your stack. 01:22:41 somehow it crashes with a memory error and some stack problem 01:22:46 though I don't see how that would differ between linux and win32 01:22:50 I do! 01:22:52 but it runs fine on linux. 01:23:05 On most platforms, SBCL allocates its own stack spaces. 01:23:20 On win32, it uses the system-provided stack because SEH gets pissy otherwise. 01:23:27 (yes, "pissy" is the technical term.) 01:23:28 ah, and that has a hard limit? 01:23:38 Yeah, a hard limit. 01:23:38 or at least, isn't growable? 01:23:44 I'm downloading ccl right now. 01:23:47 It grows to a hard limit. 01:23:49 interesting 01:23:56 (nyef): SEH? 01:24:02 CCL works around it a bit by using a vectored exception handler instead of SEH, which is a different tradeoff. 01:24:09 TeMPOraL: Structured Exception Handling. 01:24:14 Structured Exception Handling? 01:24:15 ah 01:24:15 but still, Pinku should rewrite for full tail call/recursion regardless ;) 01:24:18 ;) 01:24:20 thx 01:24:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:24:37 god, I had to maintain a project in windows (thankfully not anymore) I had to deal with SEH issues. *shudder* 01:25:04 even though I've been mostly a Windows user, I've thankfully been able to avoid the win32 APIs for pretty much my entire career 01:25:13 I have a couple of potential patches for the multiple UWP thing, but I'm not happy enough with either of them to commit. 01:25:31 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 01:25:39 (Phoodus): it is not that scary ;) 01:26:00 depends on which part you're dealing with :-P 01:26:05 It seems to work correctly on CCL, although i only tested the exact program that failed on sbcl. 01:26:08 lots of structures, but pretty well organized and documented ;) 01:26:10 and if those parts are buggy... 01:26:11 Thanks a lot. 01:26:22 (Phoodus): you were writing drivers? :D 01:26:33 no, but I remember CancelIO not working 01:26:34 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:26:36 demonstrably 01:27:02 so you cancel some outstanding read operation, destroy the receiving buffer, but then the read still takes place and clobbers you 01:27:06 AFAIK old Win32 Driver API was *very* buggy and unimplemented; the code wouldn't work well in Release version, because someone #ifdef'ed important parts for debug-only compilation 01:27:17 I'm pretty sure that's been fixe din later versions 01:27:36 and then there's the embedded stuff, but that's a separate ball of wax 01:27:40 Winapi has this irritating tendency to be simultaneously more convenient than the equivalent posixoid functionality and horribly, horribly crippled. 01:28:27 (nyef): yup, I started to write some posix-stuff and... well had to wrap it up in functions and classes, because I couldn't look at it 01:28:32 sry, too much mess for me :D 01:31:34 Yeah, well, winapi memory management? VirtualAlloc() allows for reserving address space without committing memory: yay. It doesn't mix with MapViewOfFile(): boo. You can't double-map the same pages unless you're using a file mapping or the address-windowing extensions: boo. You can't use address-windowing-extensions without locking all of your windowed pages into core: boo. 01:31:59 You can't use VirtualProtect() on a file mapping: boo. 01:32:28 They managed to get one or two things absolutely perfect, and then cripple the entire subsystem. 01:33:20 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:34:35 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 01:36:19 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:40 I haven't worked much with virtual memory stuff, but I've seen some pretty bad code on the other hand 01:40:23 ie. Speech API v5 had to be patched just to compile it under VC++'s 2003 and newer 01:40:47 patching == going through headers and fixing all that ugly and unstandard hacks someone used 01:41:12 but at least it worked well :) 01:42:55 spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-whmjqtzsgtmtkmly] has joined #lisp 01:44:45 nunb [~nundan@122.173.237.207] has joined #lisp 01:45:06 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-113-63.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 01:47:05 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:48:02 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:25 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:54 dto: I'm disappointed XIOTANK can't be played without visuals 01:49:08 -!- TDT`` is now known as TDT 01:49:45 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:50:26 mathrick: how do you mean\ 01:51:05 dto: it's sound oriented, it should be playable purely with audio :( 01:51:08 *:) 01:54:08 hehe 01:54:26 according to wikipedia that would be a Sound Game 01:55:13 -!- _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-kovufbnzflijdkrz] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:57:38 "Penny whistle, pound foolish" again? 01:59:39 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:06 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:00:08 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has joined #lisp 02:01:28 nyef: you know there's a special layer of hell for that, right? 02:01:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:01:47 isn't that "Penny wise, pound foolish"? Or did I miss a joke? 02:02:03 The pun, or video games played by whistling? 02:02:22 both. 02:02:36 I was more asking mathrick. 02:02:42 nyef: pun 02:02:53 It was a game idea I proposed on #lispgames... yesterday, wasn't it? 02:03:49 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:15 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 02:06:43 2 AM sure is more productive than mornings! 02:07:58 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:09:01 skateenjoi003 [~skateenjo@190.154.247.13] has joined #lisp 02:09:19 -!- skateenjoi003 [~skateenjo@190.154.247.13] has quit [Client Quit] 02:10:21 -!- Pinku [~Pinku@83.231.16.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:28 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:12:36 talking about time, I have 3AM here and it seems like a good time to get some sleep ;) 02:12:46 so good night :) 02:13:27 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.187.148.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 02:18:22 -!- wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:23:34 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:58 wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:43 *wgl* checks 02:25:09 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:28:43 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.168.25.225] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 02:37:29 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 02:38:20 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:43 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:06 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:27 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:25 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has joined #lisp 02:52:27 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:27 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:04 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:58:20 hrm, wonder if it would be cheaper to buy a bare bones (headless) box, put sbcl on it and connect to it through slime from this shi**y laptop 02:58:55 do all the crunching on that box 03:01:31 instead of M-x slime, I can imagine an M-x slime-launch-and-connect-ec2-instance 03:01:37 -!- aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aquateen] 03:01:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:01:45 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 tritchey: nod, that way the headless wonder could run without interruption, could possibly even run multiple instances of sbcl 03:03:28 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:36 at what point your ec2 rental costs swamped a cheap headless box, I don't know 03:04:15 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.173.237.207] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:05:08 I've had my nose in Koza's 1st genetic programming book for about a week now and I'm hitting a wall ;) I need more POWER! 03:07:44 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:12 bytecolor: buy more ram. 03:09:31 or pray the god of P=NP. 03:09:37 Axioplase_: I'm maxed out on this lappy with 1Gb 03:11:05 try to solve smaller problems, then? I doubt you need more than 1Gb (and maybe a couple of hours) for any book 03:11:12 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:14 I've been watching top for about 15 minutes now and it's hovering around 762k +/- 3k 99% CPU 03:12:39 hmm... what's the status of CL for PPC64? 03:12:57 for sbcl? 03:13:06 both SBCL and CCL, for Linux 03:13:17 I run mostly clozure on my ppc systems. 03:13:31 ccl is supported on ppc64, on darwin and linux 03:13:34 cause it would be great choice for headless "lisp machine" :) 03:14:10 I did build stump using sbcl on my 17" powerbook today. 03:14:17 but it's not threaded. 03:14:17 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:22 heh, that's about what it would amount to, a lisp machine 03:14:25 linux/ppc 03:14:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:16:41 on a headless I could possibly play around with nice as sbcl would be one of the few processes running 03:17:03 -!- tom1 [~pierre@212.99.78.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:17:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17:34 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:18:09 bytecolor: especially if you place SBCL as init, with image containing extra code, and use fork() to start new instances... :D 03:19:00 hrm, it is an appealing idea, to me, anyway ;) 03:19:32 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.89.178] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 03:19:42 tritchey: I heard that for long-term work, EC2 isn't really cost effective except for cheapest units. At least not when you have the ability to get a proper infrastructure done (which is really visible when you go over several physical servers. 03:19:42 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:19:46 ) 03:20:05 EC2&co are however brilliant when you need a burst of computing power 03:21:44 that is my understanding as well. 24/7 ec2 is not the cheapest option 03:22:18 bytecolor: as for headless boxes, it should be possible to get some discontinued PA6T systems and run CCL/linux/ppc64 on them. 03:22:58 unlike IBM 970 it is much less power hungry and generates less heat 03:25:14 though those systems are more suitable for old-style "Lisp Machine controlling a factory" application :) 03:26:21 (usually placed on ATCA blades etc.) 03:28:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cwxfowdqtuapzmoo] has joined #lisp 03:28:28 I'm way behind the curve on what is available today, the last box I built was in ummm '02 maybe. A Dual AMD MP 1.2Ghz. 03:30:54 nunb [~nundan@122.173.237.207] has joined #lisp 03:36:18 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 03:47:15 rares [~rares@174-26-81-7.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:34 felideon [~felideon@adsl-156-181-221.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:57 -!- bytecolor [~user@70.136.249.169] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:58:22 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:50 Good morning! 04:00:00 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:01:05 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:55 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 04:03:16 Good morning, beach. 04:14:37 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-104-43.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:15:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:17:24 lpolzer__ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-204-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:34 -!- lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-225-172.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:26 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:22:55 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:13 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:45 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #lisp 04:30:53 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:33:06 -!- Phoodus [~foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34:06 Phoodus [foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:02 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:46:00 OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:47:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:47:10 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:48:58 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:45 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:53:45 -!- OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:54:52 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:19 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:36 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:00:07 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 05:02:07 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@ip72-210-76-249.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:30 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:16:48 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:14 is SBCL 1.0.29 really the latest supported version for OS X? 05:21:27 no 05:23:10 ok so that table on the Download page is not updated all the time? 05:23:30 <_3b> the # just tells you what version there is a binary available for 05:23:31 "If a binary of this version of SBCL is not available for your platform, or if you'd like to customize the binary, download the source and follow the directions for compiling it." should be written in red with 32 points 05:24:00 *felideon* needs sleep 05:24:03 thanks 05:24:19 this question pop ups all the time 05:25:48 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:00 last time I installed SBCL was through clbuild. I tried upgrading and after compiling and loading SBCL it went straight to debugger. 05:26:08 LDB 05:26:36 perhaps because of the wrong core? 05:27:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:27:20 no idea. 05:27:44 clbuild doesn't take care of that? 05:27:46 there is an error message usually 05:28:53 i don't know what clbuild is doing, but there is a possibility that you used it incorrectly 05:29:10 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.74.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:29:32 probably. 05:30:14 well I just installed 1.0.36 through macports and it seems to work fine 05:30:14 so, can you see what was the error message? 05:31:49 stassats`: not anymore, I trashed it and re-did ./clbuild install sbcl and then ./clbuild compile-implementation sbcl. but I couldn't find where it had compiled to 05:32:21 so i went in and ran install.sh and the error I get from that build is different. 05:33:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96595 05:34:15 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 05:37:10 it's doing something fishy 05:38:25 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:41:36 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-74-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:44:22 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:44:46 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:44:52 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:44:57 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 05:45:05 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:49:27 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:50:21 stassats`: fishy indeed. anyway, thanks. 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joined #lisp 09:06:45 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-148-90.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 09:09:43 -!- mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 09:09:45 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 09:09:47 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 09:09:47 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:11:29 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:51 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:14:26 mishoo pasted "Set symbol property in a macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96598 09:14:42 hi folks, what's wrong in the above code ^^ ? 09:14:57 I want to define a simple macro that defines a function then sets a property on the symbol 09:15:18 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:23 it works if I C-M-x code that uses this macro (so the symbol gets the prop) but if I restart my lisp image and load the files, the property is missing 09:17:21 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:17:56 are you sure you're loading the right files? 09:17:58 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:19:07 yep, pretty sure.. 09:20:01 and packages are consistent? 09:20:26 well, the macro is defined in one package, and used in another 09:21:11 that's alright, but when you're looking for the property, are you using the right package? 09:22:11 it's in the same package where the macro is defined 09:22:55 but you said the macro is defined not in the package where it's used 09:25:57 trying to write a simpler test case as my code is too messy to paste 09:26:05 is there a genesal strategy to use when you want to use various versions of the same package at he same time or is it not possible? 09:26:40 general 09:26:52 package as in Common Lisp package? 09:26:56 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:27:07 yes 09:27:16 you can give them different names, but that wouldn't be very convenient 09:27:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jeatrfrpzznaybct] has joined #lisp 09:27:49 correct 09:27:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jeatrfrpzznaybct] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:58 packages have identities, so if there are multiple versions of a package, then they surely must be different packages 09:27:59 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:28:09 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-myrpdebwdaemaywd] has joined #lisp 09:29:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 well packages grow/change in functionality/interfaces over time and you might want to use a newer version of a package for new projects leaving your old projects to run with the older version 09:30:42 so you just name the package-v1 and package-v2 09:31:23 stassats`: hmm, weird; for a simple test case it worked 09:31:43 yeah thats what I though just wanted to know if that kind of thing would be an acceptable strategy in then lisp world 09:31:46 mishoo: i'm betting on different packages 09:31:46 so I thought I'd remove /var/cache/common-lisp-controller/* and what do you know, now it works on my code too :-/ 09:31:58 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.66.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:02 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 09:35:36 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:36:02 what was the verdict on #\. separated package names? Is micmac.mh misguided because it suggests there is a hierarchy when in fact there isn't? 09:38:39 i have started using dotted package names, along with dotted ASDF system names, but i have not published any code, so i'll see how it works out\ 09:41:21 mega: I see packages as fundamentally reflecting authorship. 09:41:40 mega: I don't see a problem with structuring author names in some kind of organizational hierarchy. 09:41:56 mega1: consider it as preparing the ground for using true hierarchical packages 09:42:06 mega1: that's why I do it :) 09:43:06 I don't think that hierarchical packages make sense, anyhow. Package local packaging naming, on the other hand ... 09:43:21 we do the java style domain name stuff... hu.dwim.foo hu.dwim.foo.test etc 09:43:49 and i'll set up a domain name entry point for http://foo.dwim.hu when i'll get enough air for it... 09:44:40 I tend to end up with quite a few packages within the same library. It's certainly not reflecting authorship. 09:44:50 I have a project FEMALE that has FEMALE, FEMALE.UTILS, FEMALE.DC, FEMALE.DB, FEMALE.TESTS, etc. 09:45:30 That's like what I do. 09:45:41 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:45:44 adeht, is she looking good? 09:45:53 levente_meszaros: hacked to pieces :( 09:46:01 except I'm pondering whether FEMALE-UTILS is better. 09:46:57 mega1: I consider that at the beginning (I like - better than .).. but decided against it as SLIME supports dot as the separator for showing the "partia"l name 09:51:08 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.173.237.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:45 ok, I'll let the dot live. 09:51:45 mega1: and then FEMALE-UTILS-TEST is FEMALE-UTILS.TEST or FEMALE.UTILS-TEST or FEMALE.UTILS.TEST? 09:55:24 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:55:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-myrpdebwdaemaywd] has left #lisp 09:55:54 jdz: F-U-T, no mixing . and - 09:56:17 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-200-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:56:21 mega1: but some names *will* contain dashes. 09:56:28 |FEMALE # UTILS \\TEST//| 09:56:53 jdz: yes, but since it's not hierarchical ... 09:56:55 female/utils/test 09:57:01 my partitioning is rather coarse.. I would just use FEMALE.TESTS for that.. if I had something that's generally useful and I wanted to use it not in FEMALE I'd put it in some other system 09:57:24 imagine your FEMALE is spelled FE-MALE 09:57:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-urktlzitgvoxlhhq] has joined #lisp 09:57:48 or maybe FEM-ALE 09:58:03 it's actually FEarsomely MAssive LEecher :) 09:58:28 so it's FE-MA-LE 09:58:58 my-female 09:59:19 udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-qrnvnnijycndbycj] has joined #lisp 09:59:27 my-female-1.0-utils-test 09:59:35 lots of different roles between those dashes 09:59:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:39 I also wrote some CL code for a company I worked for 10:01:02 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.96] has joined #lisp 10:01:28 in that project I used dash.. so had COMPANY, COMPANY-UTILS, SPEED-UTILS, PATH-UTILS, COMPANY-VRML, REC-UTILS, FLD-UTILS, GPS-PATH, RT, OPENCV, FLYCAP 10:01:42 it was also OK 10:03:17 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:53 but that wasn't actually a project, it was a mishmash of utilities and such 10:05:13 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:19 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:09:44 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:09:59 mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has joined #lisp 10:11:01 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:11:50 Samuel9999 [~tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 10:12:26 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:12:31 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A463.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:05 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:44 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:48 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 10:16:27 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:50 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:05 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #lisp 10:30:01 -!- reprore [~reprore@2002:7230:a83a:c:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:05 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:33:18 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.38] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:36:38 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:37:21 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:21 rares [~rares@174-26-121-240.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:41 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:49:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:49:30 hi nikodemus 10:49:36 hi 10:52:12 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:48 Pinku [~Pinku@83.231.62.63] has joined #lisp 10:53:05 Hello, morning. 10:55:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:28 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-137-56.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:55 TR2N` [email@89-180-228-111.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 11:01:16 naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has joined #lisp 11:01:41 -!- naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Client Quit] 11:01:41 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 11:01:59 naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has joined #lisp 11:02:04 -!- naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:58 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:13 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:22 -!- Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:09:47 Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:19 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-03253.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:32 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 11:14:36 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:14:58 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:15:35 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: work work work] 11:16:18 -!- tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:16:32 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 11:17:02 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:18:57 how unreasonable would it be if base-chars are 16bit? 11:19:01 in a lisp impl 11:20:11 I am dividing a SimpleString from a BaseString .. letting baseString be 16bit chars and SimpleString being 32bit chars 11:20:38 i'm sure there are good reasons for making that choise 11:20:50 since currently SimpleString only only supports 16bits 11:21:02 dmiles_afk: what's the point of 16/32 ? 11:21:23 the 16bit is what the jvm uses by default.. so i dont save anyhitng making them 7 or 8 bits 11:21:28 dmiles_afk: 8/16 and 8/24 make more sense 11:21:45 _3b`` [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:46 or just restricting everything to 16, even 11:21:54 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 11:22:05 spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 11:22:43 in order to make base-char only 7 or 8 bits it requires more enforcement code 11:22:47 i mean, i'm pretty sure you can always create a scenario in which any given selections of character bit widths is close to optimal, 11:23:27 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 11:23:34 hi luis` 11:23:39 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-198-137.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 11:23:39 ease of implementation *is* a valid reason. it's sometimes used as a poor excuse, too -- but that doesn't mean it's meaningless 11:23:44 ok .. yeah i guess if it costs nothing more that a base-char can be allowed to be 16bit 11:24:10 and a regualr suplestring chars be a 32 bitthing 11:24:33 and a regualr simplestring chars be a 32 bits 11:24:36 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:24:41 tmitt [seg@wizardly.us] has joined #lisp 11:24:53 sobersab1e [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:02 rikjasno1 [~hell@81.172.44.74.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:04 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:06 are you talking about abcl or something else, by the way? 11:25:11 aerique_ [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:25:16 getha [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:25:21 mtd_ [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:22 ned [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:27 nikodemus: something else 11:25:34 [df]_ [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 kvsari_ [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 -!- ned is now known as Guest57618 11:25:53 but i am using ABCLs compiler and primitive impls for about 40% of it 11:26:24 just not any of their data object subclasses 11:26:39 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 11:26:46 if anything breaks on base-char being too wide, I'd call that a bug in _their_ code :-P 11:27:17 yeah.. i guess that be strange to use that for singalling ;) 11:27:23 but you never know 11:27:34 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-228-111.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:28:15 (signaling -- where a program uses type-of on something to decide to do something differnt) 11:28:20 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-101.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:28:25 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 11:28:43 (well that typical.. but between base-char and character) 11:29:21 how much legacy CL code are you going to be running on your system anyway? 11:29:26 Isn't it mostly going to be new code? 11:29:36 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29:37 -!- mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- tmitt_ [seg@wizardly.us] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- Guest20867 [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- reb` [~user@nat/google/x-wfdjsbvityveuboa] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:37 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- sobersabre [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- _3b` [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:38 -!- rikjasnon [~hell@81.172.44.74.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:30:22 well Km (knowedge machine), Paip of course, Phoodus code, lsw, OCKB 11:30:41 wgl` [~wgl@147.sub-75-207-112.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:11 *Phoodus* grabs a cattle prod and stands between his code and dmiles_afk 11:31:43 :) 11:32:02 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:13 but really it already runs 20 fater than ABCL 11:32:17 and passes more ANSI tests 11:32:26 20% faster than ABCL 11:32:39 lots of static compilation? 11:32:46 lots 11:32:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:00 I've been meaning to ask... 11:33:07 but i cant tell if thats the whole reason why 11:33:36 also where i strore the ListThread is simplier.. i dont huse a Map to "find" it 11:33:36 so with CycLisp and the java port and all that ... why not just use an existing fast CL instead of custom ones? 11:33:47 huse/use 11:33:51 <_8david> luis, fe[nl]ix: iolib on 32bit allegro seem to fail because allegro doesn't have long-long. What do you think the best strategy for fixing that would be? 11:33:51 <_8david> 11:34:14 reb` [~user@nat/google/x-wfdjsbvityveuboa] has joined #lisp 11:34:15 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:18 <_8david> In principle it's easy to emulate long long arguments using two long args, but would that best be done in cffi, cffi-grovel, or in iolib? 11:34:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:34:23 the java once is faster than the Allegro and LispWorks .. i know !?!? 11:34:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:35 the JavaCyc is faster than the Allegro and LispWorks .. i know !?!? 11:34:40 mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 huh 11:35:03 i've been doing benchmarks. and thats what they tell me 11:35:13 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-101.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:24 so I guess the subset that you use allows more optimization and simpler generated code 11:35:26 2.0 ops-per-sec vs 23 ops on Java 11:35:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:35:46 yes the java coe is very hand optimized and written 11:35:49 coe/code 11:36:14 _8david: you'd have to emulate it in memory accessors, in function arguments, and in return values 11:36:16 this is something i ABCL will one day need to do iu think.. what CycJAva discovered... 11:36:27 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:36:35 is we used the Lisp2Java on the lisp reader and pretty printer code... 11:36:47 I've always got my nose in the SBCL disassembler, and am generally surprised at how well it handles algorithmic transforms of things, and tight register coupling to high level stuff 11:37:00 so it's pretty amazing that you're that much faster than a speed-comparable lisp 11:37:05 -!- Guest57618 is now known as ned- 11:37:08 dmiles_afk: AFAIK, most CL use 32-bit Unicode when not 8-bit base-chars. 16-bit code-point based strings would be quite reasonable, in the context of other languages having made the same choice. 11:37:19 -!- ned- is now known as ned_ 11:37:20 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:37:26 and got compilable java code.. but no java programmer owuld have sone such silly stuff.. ABCLs compiler does the same stuff excpt hidden in the bytecode 11:37:28 _8david: cffi already has support for long-long emulation in memory accessors 11:37:29 but CL does do a lot of pointer dispatching that I guess can be compiled out if certain restrictions are met in a subset 11:37:45 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 11:37:47 -!- ned_ is now known as ned[] 11:37:50 _8david: for the rest, you can use cffi-grovel wrappers 11:38:01 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:38:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:21 s/dispatching/dereferencing/ 11:38:24 _8david: but my stance on Allegro is that if Franz can't bother to support C99, screw'em 11:38:27 so that siully stuff ABCL hid in the bytecode .. and Lisp2Java put into .java... the hand programmer has to./can go back in and fix 11:38:37 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 11:39:16 pjb: yeah the 16 seems a ok compromise 11:39:38 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:44 well i think SBCL wins alot of lisps over its partial evalutation it does on source? 11:40:00 like SBCL is faster than Allegro right? 11:40:19 I haven't run any competitions except between it and CCL 11:40:24 oops: partial evalutation it does on IR 11:40:32 for our inferencing stuff, SBCL was about 6x faster than CCL 11:41:03 and SBCL's "claim to fame" is type inferencing, right? 11:41:14 oh about JavaCyc vs lispCyc.. javaCyc takes 4-5 times the RAM :P 11:41:22 :P/:( 11:41:40 well, good thing you can get desktops with 256GB RAM ;) 11:41:50 ever do any inference work on GPGPU? 11:42:10 -!- udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-qrnvnnijycndbycj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:21 a friend of mine is working on a CUDA thing for it.. sent me a GPU.. but we having really got it working well enough 11:42:53 actually some works but the problem is is the copy to/from is like 550 times too long 11:42:57 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 11:43:02 50 times too long 11:43:35 you mean the time taken on copy is that much slower? 11:44:09 well just ends up lets say doing nothing.. or say infernce was instant... the time between not using cude vs using it is 50 times 11:44:31 pretend the cuda infernce is instant.. 11:44:47 now compare what it urrently does with the thnk to cuda 11:44:58 now compare what it currently does with the thank to cuda 11:45:06 thunk 11:46:00 ah, even Teslas and such only still have a few GB of RAM on board 11:46:03 Phoodus: so i think that what you are asking.. and yeah thats the problem.. the copy to/from (thunk).. is too long 11:46:16 I was thinking of something that might fit in GPU space, but that's still too small 11:47:11 tehcically it should be able to keep arround a "ready for GPU" verison of a inner query 11:47:30 what's about inferencing that is suitable to be done no GPU? 11:47:44 afaik they are good at number crunching... 11:47:46 (if you wanted to maintain that part of your data structure) 11:47:46 parallel data search 11:47:47 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 11:48:08 GPUs are also starting to be used for database acceleration, same sort of target 11:50:18 but yeah, the FPUs generally go unused; it's the wide data paths and SIMD traversal of trees & lists that still gets a large benefit 11:51:48 -!- psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 11:52:27 another thing that keeps this system faster than ABCL is able must use defmethod/defgeneric on user extensible sequences and arrays.. this javaCyc lets the nomral accessors be overloaded instead 11:53:07 right, if you take away flexibility, you can make faster code ;) 11:53:25 oh it still does it.. it just not "forced" to do it 11:53:44 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-gupkatzzqqrakdzp] has joined #lisp 11:53:51 java overloading != multimethod dispatch 11:54:25 right true but in onder for it to supper user extensiable--sequences.. abcle had to defgeneric on CONS 11:54:49 right true but in order for it to to do user extensiable-sequences.. abcl had to defgeneric on CONS :( 11:55:13 this the ser can just extend the CONS factory 11:55:25 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:48 make a subclass that has car/cdr already ready for the user extensibility 11:56:30 (same with reverse/nreverse/length) etc 11:57:04 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:05 so the user defined version can implment any version in jruby or jwhatnot they want 11:57:59 the default lisp cons from (cons 'a 'b) is not any more special than anyones 11:58:09 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:33 not that cons is a sequence .. but not types are concrete including lisp sequence 11:59:00 everything passes thur a bean interface.. and yet its not slower! 11:59:19 beans are just a naming convention anyway 11:59:31 so that all gets statically compiled 11:59:36 yu[p that Sun optimized the hell out of so user wouldnt be scared waay from them 12:00:22 if someone uses a 1.2 jvm sure it might be a tad slower 12:00:47 um, assuming it would work at all ;) 12:01:09 well i got JavaCyc not (JavaCycABCL yet) runing on 1.3 12:01:33 but i think 1.5 is a nice sane compromise 12:01:49 so, LarKC is supposed to be finished next year; are they on track for their expected date? 12:02:14 they one the 1billion triple challenge 12:02:20 won 12:02:27 huh cool 12:02:48 and basically its a infrastructure that is mainly complete 12:03:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-urktlzitgvoxlhhq] has left #lisp 12:03:21 it just seeing even more interesting stuff happen on it would be nice before funding runs out 12:04:02 its up to people realyl to figure out how to make sparql do it.. or Cyc.. then of course Cyc would be able to do it 12:04:16 its up to people realyl to figure out how to make sparql do it.. or Cyc.. then of course LarKC would be able to do it 12:04:27 -!- sobersab1e [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:04:38 so its really everyones problem to solve 12:04:48 yeah, I couldn't really tell from the LarKC pages how much it actuall does vs is purely a platform for plugins to do all the inferencing 12:04:50 sobersabre [~bilbo@85.64.38.222.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:03 jsoft_ [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:05:25 "do it" .. not sure what "it" is .. but everyone wants it 12:05:44 Phoodus code is supposed to do "it" ? 12:05:47 heh 12:06:07 so is LarKC 12:06:17 I don't think semweb really is anything new in terms of fc/bc inferencing, is it? 12:06:45 just that there's standard for the triple formats & some query standards 12:06:55 ontology mapping is just "regular" inference 12:07:49 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:08:40 correct semweb is the same 80s version of inferncing 12:09:04 70s or 50s or 1000bc? 12:09:06 just that they actually finally considered scalability in the mix this time around 12:09:09 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 dmit [~dmit@94.247.120.2] has joined #lisp 12:10:07 yes 12:12:18 -!- jsoft_ [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:43 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:19:15 -!- spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-whmjqtzsgtmtkmly] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:21:33 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:39 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:23:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:10 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-63-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:25:08 _8david: do you want to run hemlock on Allegro ? 12:26:09 -!- Guest38927 is now known as pkhuong 12:26:10 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-112.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:20 <_8david> no, this isn't about hemlock. 12:28:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:28:09 <_8david> I need/want inotify stuff. I think for now I'll write the FFI definitions manually using for CFFI, and then them over to iolib only when porting from allegro to SBCL. 12:28:29 ok 12:28:55 <_8david> It's a bit weird that inotify writes struct data over a socket. 12:30:25 epoll has a similar interface 12:30:46 "fd" more than socket, eh? 12:30:58 -!- spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A463.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:31:16 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 12:31:16 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:19 <_8david> right, fd. 12:32:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A463.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:25 what might it do instead of making it available on a fd? 12:32:46 morning xach 12:32:52 what did I do wrong? 12:33:02 mega1 [~quassel@53d83092.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:33:06 -!- wgl` [~wgl@147.sub-75-207-112.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:48 Xach: is there anywhere else i should announce the contest? 12:34:24 dto: lisp.reddit.com, http://lispforum.com 12:35:17 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:22 <_8david> Xach: The fd approach is nice, and overall it makes sense from a C programmer's perspective. I'm only trying to figure out how to read(2) into a cffi:defcstruct with iolib. 12:35:25 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 12:35:41 <_8david> actually, without iolib 12:35:51 _8david: oh, gotcha. i just read into an octet vector and parsed. 12:36:10 udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-hixmrqabdylysluh] has joined #lisp 12:37:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:37:26 _8david: (with-foreign-object (buf mystruct :count 1) (sys:read fd buf (foreign-type-size 'mystruct))) 12:38:07 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: ok, thanks. I'll do that as part of the iolib port. 12:38:48 <_8david> and #+allegro (let ((buffer (read-sequence ...))) (dotimes (i structure-length) (setf (mem-ref i) (elt buffer i)))) to emulate it. 12:39:22 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-gupkatzzqqrakdzp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:40:06 _8david: unless you read into arrays created by code not under your control, I'd suggest that you use static-vectors 12:40:08 http://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors 12:41:10 -!- gko [~gko@114-136-235-186.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:42:46 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:42:51 -!- aerique_ is now known as aerique 12:43:30 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:28 those ?? in gdb backtraces on SBCL represent Lisp frames? 12:49:28 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 12:51:06 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:36 Does the Lisp spec say anything about the contiguity of arrays in memory? 12:52:39 the spec doesn't say anything about implementation techniques 12:53:32 Ralith: there's something about array row major indexing, but that's all, and it wouldn't really prevent to map arrays in any way. 12:54:36 Ralith: concretely, (aref a i j k) <=> (row-major-aref a (+ (* (+ (* i d0) j) d1) k)) 12:54:37 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 12:54:53 okay. 12:55:00 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:01 that's more than I expected, actually. 12:55:19 but I expect that, if not most impls, SBCL at least tends to make arrays contiguous 12:55:20 arrays could as well be implemented as linked lists 12:55:22 is this correct? 12:55:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:25 Ralith: row-major-aref could still implement slices, or whatever. 12:55:31 yes I get that 12:55:40 Of course, sane implementations make them contiguous. 12:55:48 okay 12:56:40 is there a way to extract, say, a pointer to a contiguous series of single-floats that C could happily read as a float[]? 12:56:47 (read, not write) 12:57:10 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 12:57:15 you use the FFI to make an array of C floats :) 12:58:05 -!- tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:46 tali713 [~user@c-71-195-45-159.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:19 Ralith: there's the difficulty that when printing an array that would show as #(1.0 2.0), you don't know whether it's an array of T or an array of unboxed single-float. You would have to use upgraded-array-element-type to know if you can pass an array to an C function expecting a float[] (or convert it anyways). 12:59:41 dlowe: the point here is to avoid the copy. 12:59:49 Exactly. 13:00:04 So you have to be extra careful on how you build your arrays. 13:00:07 Ralith: right. use only the C array 13:00:11 pjb: that is acceptable. 13:00:19 dlowe: it would be best to avoid that. 13:00:41 if you say so 13:00:45 But the public API would be FFI. From a lisp array to a C pointer, you'd have to use implementation specific knowledge. 13:00:53 yes 13:01:12 I of course do not expect to go anywhere near this without relying on implementationd etails. 13:01:37 but assuming willingness to rely on implementation details, I can successfully extract a pointer that C can read as an array of float from an array with an explicit element type of single-float? 13:02:02 I guess Yes. 13:02:21 An _upgraded_ element type. 13:02:27 <_3b> you can on sbcl at least 13:02:44 pjb: can you elaborate on that concept? 13:02:47 hi folks. i have a question about applying the GPL and or LGPL to a lisp project. It's my game engine, currently GPLv3. A user would like to create a game for it using the BSD license for the game, however I am told this is a problem in GPL terms. Would it be ok to use the LGPL? 13:02:53 pjb: I'm not sure I appreciate the implications 13:03:10 No implication, just terminology. 13:03:13 (for my engine? i.e. would that allow him to make a BSD licensed game for it) 13:03:23 dto: the LGPL assumes C-like languages; I am pretty sure CL's environment would break it. 13:03:37 what do lispers do? 13:03:37 specifically, it depends on dynamic linking or something very similar, iirc. 13:03:40 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:03:43 there's LLGPL 13:03:43 public domain mostly 13:03:44 ^^ 13:03:47 dto: if your engine is a "platform", then GPL shouldn't cross the boundary. 13:03:59 dto: BSD 13:04:02 minion: LLGPL? 13:04:02 LLGPL: The "Lisp Lesser General Public Licence": this is a license like the LGPL but with a prequel which defines the effect in terms more typically used in Lisp programs. http://www.cliki.net/LLGPL 13:04:06 <_3b> wasn't the ability to rebuild with modified library code enough for lgpl? 13:04:21 dto: the question is whether the users need to modify your engine to implement their game, that is, whether their games are derived works of your work? 13:04:22 pjb: well, I'm not sure I understand the terminology, then :P 13:04:40 clhs upgraded-array-element-type 13:04:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 13:04:43 pjb: can I reliably create an array with a single-float upgraded element type? 13:04:46 on SBCL? 13:04:55 (if so, is this implementation-specific?) 13:05:15 (make-array dims :element-type 'single-float :initial-element 0.0) should do it. 13:05:16 Ralith: It's implementation-specific how floats are encoded to begin with 13:05:17 pjb: no, they're applications that use my library. 13:05:35 stassats: thanks, that sounds promising, the llgpl 13:05:40 dto: if they link with it dynamically, there should be no problem. 13:05:44 pjb: that's what I was hoping for. Will that work cross-platform? 13:05:45 Ralith: you can scream when it won't be upgraded to single-float 13:05:51 <_3b> dto: don't forget things like macros 13:05:54 tcr: my immediate question doesn't concern the low level encoding 13:05:58 stassats: wat? 13:06:15 _3b: using my game engine involves heavy macro processing of basically everything 13:06:23 dto: for example, if they can use another (theorical) library providing the same API, there would be no contamination, as long as the two are distributed and installed separately. 13:06:42 pjb: so far, at least, all xe2's games are in the same git repo >_> 13:06:47 Ralith: (assert (eql (array-element-type (make-array dims :element-type 'single-float :initial-element 0.0)) 'single-float)) 13:06:58 stassats: ah, good. 13:06:58 Ralith: Hm? If you want to use the float array in C, you have to know the memory layout pretty much exactly. I suggest you ask on an sbcl mailing list 13:07:23 tcr: yes, I know, but I was only asking about single-floats in that case. pjb already resolved my concerns about formatting. 13:07:30 dto: see for example, the clisp vs. readline case. clisp wants to distribute the readline library with it, so it has to be GPL. But there is a readline compatible library and one can write a proprietary application that would use one or the other dynamically linking. 13:07:54 that isn't the case with xe2, although i suppose someone could clone its api 13:08:00 does sbcl on 64-bit put two single-floats in one word? 13:08:24 depends on the definition of single-float. Most implementation use 32-bit IEEE 754 for them. 13:08:36 sbcl uses that 13:08:39 pjb: so where can I find the API for extracting this pointer? 13:08:48 pjb: part of xe2 is a custom object system called clon, which the engine is written in, with many macros that transform all the game-related code. so it's pretty intimate. 13:09:05 *stassats* doesn't have 64-bit environment handy 13:09:10 dto: do you have a political objection to BSD? It'd really make life easier. 13:09:39 dto: if it helps, history shows that smart commercial users give back as much code as, if not more than, oss users. 13:09:58 i'll have to think about it. 13:09:58 (because free maintenance is awesome) 13:10:22 and it's not like we lispers are going to earn millions using your game engine and give nothing back... 13:10:29 stassats: in what context? 13:10:38 jdz: that's not what concerns me :) 13:10:54 jdz: my main concern is what a business entity might do. 13:10:55 jsnell: in single-float simple arrays 13:11:02 <_3b> you could alwyas bsd your engine, and gpl the games you make with it 13:11:03 yes, they'll be packed 13:11:14 dto: do free marketing for your game engine? :) 13:11:17 thanks 13:11:32 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:39 _3b: i already GPL the games i make with it, and then CC-license the art/music (typically noncommercial) 13:11:45 jsnell: so it would not be safe to take a pointer to the relevant memory region and pass it to C? 13:11:48 jdz: :) 13:12:06 jsnell: to C that expects a C array of float, that is. 13:12:09 i am gonna do a little research 13:12:09 Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. 13:12:21 jdz: hee, imma steal that one. 13:12:25 depends on what you mean by safe 13:12:27 Ralith: then, there are the implementations who have a garbage collector moving the objects in memory. Such as generational garbage collector such as found in sbcl... 13:12:38 the internal representation is basically the same 13:12:45 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:06 pjb: my use case requires a one-time read that happens during the FFI, so that shouldn't be an issue. 13:13:08 but you'll want to ensure that the array doesn't move around 13:13:14 (But I don't know, I just guess that sbcl moves the objects from one generation to the other. Check it!) 13:13:34 jsnell: safe as in, the C function called will be able to index the array and read floats as usual in C code. 13:13:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:13:45 Joreji [~thomas@67-181.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:14:09 additionally you need to make sure that you take the pointer to the right place, since an sbcl vector will have a header word. your ffi layer might already handle that correctly 13:14:27 let me describe what I'm going for here 13:14:52 basically, I have some code that, in lisp, copies single-float array elements to foreign memory. 13:14:57 I want to move this copy to C. 13:15:38 (because the destination of the copy is actually GPU memory, so this saves a redundant copy) 13:16:21 jsnell: I was hoping that SBCL would have some API which would allow me to easily extract that location. 13:16:36 and convert it, if necessary, into something CFFI will accept. 13:16:49 I would assume cffi already does the right thing 13:16:59 Ralith: perhaps you could store the data directly to the GPU with CFFI? 13:17:06 Meaning you would have to rewrite this code in lisp. 13:17:18 pjb: 'this code' is the video driver. 13:17:20 so, unlikely. 13:17:32 piece of cake! 13:17:41 <_3b> there is cffi::with-pointer-to-vector-data 13:17:56 ooh 13:17:58 that sounds promising. 13:18:08 that sounds *very* promising. 13:18:14 it's even exported. 13:18:33 in fact, this is *exactly* what I was looking for. 13:18:34 yay! 13:18:46 _3b: will be submitting a patch to cl-opengl for this within a day or two. 13:19:07 _3b: incidentally, what's going on with upstream? 13:19:12 <_3b> also gl:map-buffer 13:19:34 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:19:39 <_3b> where are you using it? 13:20:16 <_3b> (and make sure it actually works portably, last i heard it wasn't officially supported in cffi, but that was a while ago) 13:20:28 with-foreign-matrix would be a good place to start. 13:20:46 I am pretty sure that there are a few longhand copies of that macro lying around, too 13:21:09 -!- luis` is now known as luis 13:21:12 uniform-matrix, for example 13:21:24 _8david: around? 13:21:51 _3b: CFFI source lists it as 'experimental,' but it's exported. 13:22:08 and the comments document that it *should* fall back on copying when unsupported. 13:22:44 <_8david> still around 13:22:59 <_3b> so you would do a typecase or something and use that when you get a matching specialized array? 13:23:35 _8david: http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/patches/more-llong-emulation.diff has what you were asking for earlier, but I don't remember its exact status. 13:23:54 _3b: isn't it an error to pass the relevant functions a non-matching array? 13:24:06 <_3b> not that i know of 13:24:30 I wouldn't expect uniform-matrix to behave if I passed it an array of boolean, certainly 13:24:32 <_3b> would be annoying if you couldn't pass it results of #( or whatever 13:24:45 ah, yeah, the upgraded element type thing 13:24:49 that would be caseable I suppose 13:24:51 <_3b> or (vector ...) 13:24:59 will SBCL optimize away typecase when inferrable? 13:25:06 <_3b> if you inline it 13:25:22 that doesn't strike me as a normal thing to do 13:25:27 <_3b> or rather 'yes, but it won't be able to for most of those uses unless you inline them) 13:25:27 it's not slow or anything though, right? 13:25:46 certainly, it should be a lot cheaper than performing a copy 13:26:01 right? 13:26:26 <_3b> typecase? should be cheap there 13:26:36 kk 13:26:39 <_8david> luis: thank you, I'll have a look 13:26:39 so yes, expect patch 13:26:44 <_3b> not like the aref in the copy wouldn't be checking the type anyway 13:27:06 mostly my concern was "will this significantly impact the maximally-performant case" 13:28:39 _3b: so what's going on with upstream? 13:28:58 <_3b> Ralith: ask luis about upstream 13:29:07 luis: consider yourself asked! 13:30:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-147.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:30:58 <_3b> Ralith: (and see also the mailing list a few days ago) 13:31:11 *Ralith* isn't sure where to find that 13:33:20 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 13:33:45 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-101.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:35:52 G'morning all. 13:36:29 Ralith: cl-opengl? 13:38:45 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:00 luis: yeah 13:41:31 _3b is the new maintainer :P 13:41:41 and his tree is the official one 13:41:46 fax [~none@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 13:42:11 gotta update the website, if the maintainer doesn't do that in the meantime :) 13:42:33 *_3b* is too lazy to get c-l.net access :p 13:42:33 awesome 13:42:47 *Ralith* goes to sleep for now 13:44:06 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-101.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:20 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 13:45:21 _3b, luis: at least put out an official announcement email? :) 13:46:09 tsuru`: it's being "discussed" in the mailing list. 13:47:17 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 13:51:50 luis: I've seen that... but so far no definite language has been used like your above "_3b is the new maintainer" 13:52:01 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 13:52:23 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:53:35 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:07 -!- Samuel9999 [~tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Quit: co co] 13:55:04 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:55:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:40 -!- Phoodus [foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:20 hsaliak_ [~hsaliak@cm34.sigma72.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:57:17 lp 538689 13:57:17 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/538689 13:57:44 Hrm... Cute, but could do with a bit of polish. 13:58:33 nikodemus: Is that what you wanted two days and five hours ago? 14:04:05 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:09:30 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 14:10:23 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 14:10:44 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:11:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:27 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:31 nyef: yes! 14:14:35 thank you 14:14:36 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:15:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:16:11 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 14:16:16 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:26 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:25 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-179-44-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 illuminati1113 [~user@173-45-241-173.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:25 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-62-75-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:24:17 -!- PissedNumlock is now known as Reinout 14:24:37 -!- Reinout is now known as Reinout_Stevens 14:36:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:28 cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has joined #lisp 14:41:14 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:23 nikodemus: I'm thinking that an improved version could be made, but it'd require a round-trip or two against launchpad. 14:43:25 plage [~user@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 14:43:29 Good afternoon! 14:43:40 Hello plage. 14:44:22 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:45:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:26 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:46:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:46:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:46:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:47:09 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:04 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:48:05 -!- cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has quit [Quit: so long..] 14:50:01 nyef: Would be nice if specbot also mentioned the title 14:50:24 tcr: It would, but that would require a round-trip or two to launchpad. 14:50:40 right :-) 14:50:47 is that a problem though? 14:50:48 too bad it's not living in the same image 14:51:00 seibel [~user@adsl-99-179-44-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:16 -!- seibel is now known as gigamonkey 14:51:16 It's a possible problem because I don't know if I'd need HTTPS, I don't want to risk any trouble with fd-leaks, etc. 14:51:35 Our round-trip against cliki has been a massive source of trouble in the past. 14:52:10 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:52:28 I'd be interested if you could take the time and write up the past issue 14:52:46 I always ask and forget again :-) 14:53:03 doesn't launchpad provide some notification API that you can use to maintain a bug db for specbot? 14:53:28 adeht: Yet Another DB in that image is something that I'd desparately want to avoid. 14:53:35 The paste DB is already bad enough. 14:55:07 ok, g2g 14:55:12 cya :) 14:55:17 prxq [~mommer@g228011118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 14:55:25 hi 14:55:49 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:56:02 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59:23 in sbcl 1.0.36, I get a package conflict with a package that I haven't even loaded. Is this type of information cached somewhere? 14:59:49 prxq: what kind of conflict? 14:59:59 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:03 also, a name conflict error no longer offers the "resolve" restart 15:00:10 Xach: a symbol name conflict 15:00:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.212] has joined #lisp 15:01:10 Xach: ok, stale fasls from a previous build, odd combination of things. 15:01:16 ok 15:01:18 but the missing restart seems strange 15:01:33 you're lucky that it even gets you to the debugger :) 15:02:03 adeht: :-) 15:02:14 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 15:03:00 nickjd [~76ec50b9@gateway/web/freenode/x-clhhxswlmrthatfm] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:11:10 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:17 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:15:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:16:21 j4k0b [j4k0b@93.182.185.78] has joined #lisp 15:17:02 prxq: if you can figure out the exact sequence of events, a bug report is always welcome 15:17:33 nikodemus: ok, i'll try 15:17:36 (exact in the sense of "here' s how to reproduce", not "here's what going on behind the scenes") 15:18:38 pit147 [~pobameme@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 15:20:46 please I have a problem "ASDF:MISSING-COMPONENT: component "clim-clx" not found", how can I find this component without load all the mcclim system 15:21:15 nikodemus: I understood that :-) a file or two with a clear sequence of steps 15:21:27 or no file at all but steps nonetheless 15:22:18 <_8david> pit147: a call to (asdf:find-system :mcclim) before attempting to load clim-clx should take care of that 15:22:23 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.1.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:50 but :clim-clx depends on mcclim anyway 15:24:11 yeah I know but I want to use mcclim-truetype and it's says in the mcclim-truetype 15:24:15 To autoload mcclim-truetype after mcclim, link this file to a 15:24:15 directory in your asdf:*central-registry* and add the following to 15:24:15 your lisp's init file: 15:24:15 15:24:15 (defmethod asdf:perform :after ((o asdf:load-op) 15:24:15                                  (s (eql (asdf:find-system :clim-clx)))) 15:24:16    (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :mcclim-freetype)) 15:24:19 <_8david> really? in my old checkout it only depends on :clim and clx 15:25:00 <_8david> gilbert used to have code depending on clim-clx but not mcclim, which breaks because there is no separate file clim-clx.asd 15:25:28 _8david: well, and :clim is a good part mcclim 15:25:29 <_8david> obviously that's a situation different from that mcclim-truetype question 15:25:30 but when I put the defmethod in the .sbclrc there is an error, clim-clx is not found 15:25:33 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:38 nikodemus: i'm thinking through your condition-wait patch 15:25:46 pit147: You should be able to load the mcclim-truetype.asd (or somethign like that) file manually. It is somewhere in the Extensions subdirectory. 15:26:13 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.36] has joined #lisp 15:27:21 nikodemus: Context is the commit message: 15:27:55 nikodemus: In Step 4), token A == token C, in case thread A == thread C which happens in case of deadlines 15:28:24 nikodemus: I don't say that this case actually does constitute a lost wake up case 15:29:28 nikodemus: I just think the commit message should explicitly mention this case, too 15:30:08 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.4] has joined #lisp 15:30:26 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.1.143] has joined #lisp 15:33:46 _8david: problem solved. We put the after method on :mcclim instead of :clim-clx. 15:34:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:11 problem solved. thanks 15:34:17 No problem! 15:34:58 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:14 actually I'm wrong that cannot happen at all 15:36:31 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:37:29 n 15:37:34 err 15:39:45 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 15:40:24 -!- pit147 [~pobameme@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:41:50 INPUT on BOGUS descriptor 0 15:41:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.72.212] has left #lisp 15:44:28 -!- plage [~user@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has left #lisp 15:45:19 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:46:49 pit147 [~pobameme@salle007.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 15:47:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:23 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:47:51 yes it can happen 15:47:54 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:57 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:43 schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:49:18 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:53 -!- schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:26 -!- alexsuraci_ is now known as alexsuraci 15:57:27 milanj [~milan@91.150.120.164] has joined #lisp 15:59:08 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:01:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:56 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:36 tcr: i don't have the brains for condition-wait right now. can you comment on the list? 16:08:58 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-147.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:58 -!- mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:38 yup actually I just did :-) 16:11:07 The patch is definitively an improvement on status quo nontheless. 16:12:23 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 16:16:02 It's a different scenario, hence I changed the subject. I'd be content with a "Do not do this" 16:16:21 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:16:21 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:17:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:18:34 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:26:41 -!- udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-hixmrqabdylysluh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:27:53 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:02 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:22 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:32:32 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:52 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:33:48 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:40:27 -!- hypno_ is now known as hypno 16:41:26 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 16:42:47 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.180] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:07 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:43 splittist [~5c97aa49@gateway/web/freenode/x-akisuxkyabdcyekg] has joined #lisp 16:48:45 morning 16:50:42 -!- Pinku [~Pinku@83.231.62.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:46 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:51 konr [~konrad@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 16:53:56 yello splittist 16:54:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:54:48 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.39] has joined #lisp 16:56:32 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:37 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:01 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:09:00 'morning 17:10:00 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 17:11:36 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:02 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 17:13:22 Hey splittist. Are you really in a place where it is morning? 17:13:30 Hey Fade. 17:13:57 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:52 it's morning here as well... 17:17:03 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 17:17:21 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:51 michalk [~michalk@chello089073134224.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 17:22:59 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:36 (foo (1 3 5 2 4 1 3) #'oddp) => ((1 3 5) (2 4) (1 3)) ; what's this idiom called? 17:25:17 never heard a name for it. 17:25:43 any suggestions? 17:25:56 group-by-predicate? 17:26:06 I called something similar `group' 17:26:13 luis: sure, why not. 17:26:27 luis: the series package calls it "chunk" 17:26:37 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-44-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:15 luis: group-if 17:27:53 It was my plan to add a couple of useful sequence functions on top of sequence-iterators, but I haven't come around doing so 17:28:03 luis: or split-if 17:28:15 mentioned them in my talk though 17:28:17 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node353.html 17:28:19 dlowe: I like that better. 17:28:47 Oh actually I didn't look too closely what it's supposed to do 17:29:25 split-if is nice, thanks. 17:30:46 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:32:57 I find `split-if' misleading for this kind of behavior.. the one from series just partitions into two groups (in case of one supplied predicate), w/o consideration for their "clustering" together 17:33:07 adeht: true 17:33:23 how about cluster-if? 17:33:30 or just cluster 17:33:44 yeah that works 17:34:02 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 17:36:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:21 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:35 -!- Tabmow [~terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:43 Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 17:44:44 my `group' was different.. it called the function to decide whether to add an element to the group, based on the last element added.. if not, it created a new group consisting of the element. an initial group is created for the first element (if there is one). 17:45:53 so something like (group (lambda (previous current) (eq (parity previous) (parity current))) list) 17:46:47 right, that seems more general 17:47:48 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:47:50 I used it in a starteam (old version) -> git repository conversion program to group patches (starteam only had per-file check-in) 17:48:26 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:09 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:50:04 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:50:15 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 17:53:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:55 wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has joined #lisp 17:55:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:57:09 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:58 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:55 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:11 murfle [~1@110-174-72-25.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 -!- murfle [~1@110-174-72-25.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 18:01:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755a3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:02:18 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:04:34 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-153-69.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:24 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 18:08:55 -!- [df]_ is now known as [df] 18:10:20 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082CAD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:57 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:24 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F20B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:14:50 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:15:37 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:17:53 mega1: here? 18:19:45 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:21:13 If you're looking at code from an interrupt-safety point of view, what kind of mind state do you have? Something akin to "At every point, an unwind could happen?" Is unwind enough? There may be even more subtle brokenenss due to the potential of recursive code execution as interrupts can be executing any code (including the code you're looking at) 18:21:20 -!- gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-179-44-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:37 holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:53 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:23:39 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-39-6-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:11 ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has joined #lisp 18:25:35 nikodemus: you here? 18:28:10 Can you propose me a project that would be really impressive to use in my Resume? 18:29:01 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:29:27 How about a project that interests you so you do it with enthusiasm resulting in great work? 18:29:34 metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:56 In general: do something which is relevant to the domain you want to end up working in? 18:30:34 I already do! The problem is that most of things that I code are not that complicated 18:30:44 I want to show (and to find out first) if I'm a good programmer 18:30:47 I agree with tcr :) 18:30:56 "Complicated" in what sense? 18:31:14 konr: What domain is it? 18:31:18 I don't know, too... What's the difference between a good or bad programmer? 18:31:22 tcr: data mining! 18:32:25 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:33 you can try to over-engineer things 18:32:53 lisp is an excellent tool for that 18:33:59 enterprise data mining! 18:34:51 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:34:51 the guy who invented reality television must have spent time in a technical irc channel. 18:35:33 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 18:36:11 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:05 -!- gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-39-6-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:37:17 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:37:36 Why/ 18:38:15 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:38:19 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:35 tcr: barely 18:38:51 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 18:39:04 (not enough to think about interrupts, etc) 18:39:22 Found out the answer myself :-) 18:40:06 I wonder how one could easily map threads-as-shown-by-gdb to lisp threads in case the lisp image is hosed 18:40:36 otherwise (loop for thread in (sb-thread:all-threads) collect (cons thread (sb-thread::thread-os-thread))) does it 18:41:16 I wonder if one could deduce earlier-allocated pthread objects from later-allocated objects on behalf of the address 18:41:25 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:41:35 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-35-214-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:03 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-147.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:42:43 -!- pit147 [~pobameme@salle007.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:54 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-195-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:43:02 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 18:43:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:56 If one could get from the pthread address to the actual lisp object, one could look at the thread-name 18:46:43 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:47 *Fade* wonders what issues are holding up sbcl thread support on linux/powerpc 18:47:59 apart from interest 18:50:16 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 18:50:39 tcr: does call backtrace_from_fp work for you from gdb for sbcl running under emacs? 18:51:21 nope 18:51:34 first get a SIGPIPE, then a SIGSEGV 18:51:39 huh 18:52:04 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:14 but same works for sbcl running under terminal? 18:52:19 nope works there 18:52:41 so, a "mysterious process under Emacs" issue, not a darwin problem 18:52:54 not a great consolation, but... 18:52:58 so I'm wondering about the "this lambda must not cons" comment on top of initial-thread-function in make-thread 18:53:03 what does an #1=(...) #1# expression do? 18:53:05 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:53:18 which, I guess, related to the comment in create_thread (thread.c) 18:53:23 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-26-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:24 clhs #= 18:53:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dho.htm 18:53:28 Fade: it's a fair bit of work, and no-one has volunteered to do it or pay for it 18:53:30 yay nyef! 18:53:32 ekpneo: Enjoy. 18:53:43 thank you kindly 18:53:52 couple that with the relatively small role ppc has in the daily life of most sbcl hackers, and... 18:53:58 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:54:01 yeah 18:54:12 ah wait --njf is not you 18:54:36 No, sorry, I'm not an njf. 18:54:42 I'm an ab or an ajb. 18:54:43 Why "nyef" anyway? 18:54:47 tcr: in other news -- i have a fix for the miscompilation due to missing &REST in the proclamation 18:54:51 Why not? 18:54:59 touche 18:54:59 tcr: it's from "crocodile dundee" 18:55:07 ... No. No, it isn't. 18:55:11 tcr: "That's not a nyef -- THIS is a nyef!" 18:55:22 heh 18:55:23 it's supposed to be pronounced like knife? 18:55:35 tcr: In my head, yes. 18:56:40 nikodemus: I forgot how I stumbled upon that one :-) iirc, it was due to my define-api which I use on exported functions and which declaims ftypes 18:56:48 so "cool" 18:57:07 hrmh. my fix is misbehaving 18:59:52 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:00:18 nikodemus: Hm re: gdb under emacs; I guess I'm getting some kind of SIGPIPE because sbcl is trying to write to an fd piped from gdb, or emacs? 19:02:17 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:10 Can you replicate the effect using other programs than emacs? 19:03:42 codewad [~codewad@d173-183-92-136.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:48 it works on the terminal 19:03:50 (sbcl | cat might be one to try if it's sigpipe...) 19:04:13 ah true sbcl itself is run from under emacs, too 19:04:26 I'll try when connecting to an sbcl running in a terminal 19:04:40 Or run under M-x shell? 19:05:08 Does comint mode involve a pty? 19:06:30 nikodemus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/93642 -- how about including something like that? I use that, plus a compile-time-assert, to assert that slots end up acquiring a word (to assert atomicity on x86 -- hm the real solution should probably return whether the the slot is properly aligned as secondary value.) 19:07:08 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:08:15 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:18 gio123 [~c188270a@gateway/web/freenode/x-ahzpjhajzlosfplv] has joined #lisp 19:08:27 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 19:08:44 does anybody has access to this paper? 19:09:08 A Semantic Web Reasoner for Rules, Equations and Constraints ? 19:10:06 francogrex [~user@20.125-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:12:33 I lost all my old files. I knew how to do that once, output format with a tab sothing like this: (format stream "~{~a ~T~}" (list 1 2 3)) but not really a tab here 19:13:21 Padding on the right to some number of spaces? 19:13:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:14:00 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:16:15 nyef: the format I wrote above just outputs 2 spaces between the 123 19:16:37 francogrex: do you want the actual tab character in the output? 19:17:12 but I really need TAB because I output to excel (tab file). I knew how to do it, just can't recall spent all afternoon trial andf error. 19:17:42 francogrex: if you want an actual tab character in the output, the easiest way is to put an actual tab character in the string. 19:17:48 Xach: yes it's to go to excel that will recognoze the tabs 19:18:01 francogrex: of course, excel and everything else will recognize a comma, too, and that's easier to read and write. 19:18:05 or ~C and #\Tab, or ~/BLAH:TAB/ 19:18:11 tcr pasted "sbcl+emacs+gdb; backtrace_from_fp on linux" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96630 19:18:13 tcr: looks about right to me 19:18:37 Xach: I know, csv, but problem is the other lists I have contain text with commas that come in them 19:19:00 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 francogrex: for that I use ~S 19:19:21 Ugh. Exporting -anything- to excel usably is a pain. :-/ 19:19:43 francogrex: much easier than trying to embed a tab. 19:19:56 nikodemus: what about aligness? 19:20:04 Hrm... cl-excel97-export? 19:20:16 does anybody has access to this paper? 19:20:17 A Semantic Web Reasoner for Rules, Equations and Constraints ? 19:20:23 adeht, francogrex: or (COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.ECMA048:STAB 8) 19:20:48 gio123: The answer now is the same as it was twelve minutes ago: We're ignoring you. 19:20:50 Xach: ok will try 19:20:53 gio123: Still no. 19:21:05 ECMA-048 codes may be better interpreted by presentation components than a mere ASCII tab... Or not. 19:21:19 nyef: but for excel exports imports in general I found a very nice lib some time ago called cl-win32ole 19:21:23 HG` [~HG@xdsler200.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:29 but I don't use it here 19:21:49 francogrex: Yeah, win32ole doesn't do much good if you're not on windows and still need to generate an excel file. 19:22:02 :) 19:22:05 ok 19:22:06 ppl 19:23:07 nyef: yes true; but on windows it's very good 19:23:29 Also means you need excel installed, which doesn't always happen on windows, either. 19:23:58 yes needs excel of course 19:24:34 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:52 tcr annotated #96630 "sbcl+emacs+gdb; sbcl not as inferior-lisp process" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96630#1 19:24:58 -!- holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:07 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:09 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:31 The difference may simply be related to different thread scheduling though, perhaps 19:26:55 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 19:27:28 tcr: defstruct slots are always word-aligned 19:28:43 Xach: yes ~S is good here 19:29:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-181.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:30 hi, when I do cffi:defcallback, then use (my-c-function (callback callback-function ...)), and then later reload the file, so cffi:defcallback is called again, then it gets a new address (I suppose), so my-c-func now has an invalid callback pointer. is it possible to have the same address after defcallback? 19:29:46 nikodemus: Well, perhaps this should still be part of the API of that function but it just happens to always return T -- just for the case that this should ever change 19:30:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:31:34 tcr: word-sized or larger slots are pretty much guaranteed to be always word-aligned 19:32:04 if we ever add support for raw sub-word slots, they would not be 19:32:45 I'm using this for work at our university, so I'm writing with longevity in mind 19:33:18 tcr: such a refactoring would break the function for sure, though :) 19:33:47 ---> goodnight 19:33:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:11 i wonder what timezone nikodemus is in. 19:34:41 ignotus: You might be able to play games with load-time-value and/or eval-when... Or some conditional related to boundp, etc. 19:34:46 Europe, for an early sleeper. 19:35:04 he might just want to spend the rest of the evening with family 19:35:29 Well Finland must be one hour early with respect to the central Europe time. 19:36:00 ignotus: I don't use CFFI, but when I use a callback I typically arrange for the callback function to pass the buck to a normal CL function so I can just redefine that and have things work. Haven't really worried about reloading the entire file as I tend not to do that too often during development. 19:36:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:44 -!- francogrex [~user@20.125-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:08 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Switching to single-player mode.] 19:39:01 nyef: thanks I will do that (wrt boundp). Yeah my callback func body is one (my-handler) function call just for this, but I have some long running foreign functions/threads, those take the function pointer in the beginning after that I can't change them (or it would be just too much hassle). 19:39:46 You might be able to (setf callback-function) or similar in some cases. 19:40:45 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:12 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:45:13 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:46:34 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:51:21 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:46 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 porcelina_ [~kay@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:57 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:15 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 19:56:48 -!- michalk 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kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 rbancroft [~rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 anekos [~anekos@pl663.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 turbo24prg [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 borisc [~borisc@borisc2.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 20:15:05 milanj: is that a lisp program? 20:15:06 Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 dmit [~dmit@94.247.120.2] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 ramus [~ramus@99.23.137.96] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 easyE [N3UJ5M7mnp@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 jyujin [~mdeininge@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 tvaalen [~r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 20:15:13 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:14 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest4116 20:15:14 is there an easy way to send a line end with format? 20:15:38 porcelina_: ~% seems likely 20:15:39 porcelina_: ~% ? 20:15:43 porcelina_: various: ~& ~% newline, and ~newline. 20:15:44 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 20:15:44 oh! i remember that. 20:15:49 thx. -_-; 20:15:51 Or ~& for a conditional newline, or... 20:15:53 Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 i think ~& is what i want. 20:16:12 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:20 And in clisp there's even an additionnal one with enhanced semantics. :-) 20:16:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:03 Xach, mistake :) 20:17:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:17:15 yay that worked. ^_^ 20:17:21 Xach: it could be, with the right reader macros :-) 20:17:33 thx 20:17:50 but better would be if it was lisp program 20:18:32 pjb: i mean the cron job... 20:18:43 mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 i dont know how i manage to paste that here, sorry 20:19:34 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:45 deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:58 Fare: you should be able to create new milestones at https://launchpad.net/asdf/trunk 20:21:05 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:22:07 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-153-69.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:13 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 20:23:49 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:00 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:24:01 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:26:22 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 20:28:58 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:30:20 dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 20:33:23 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: be back later .•«UPP»•.] 20:34:34 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:55 -!- mle [~emily@kuu.accela.net] has left #lisp 20:36:49 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:23 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 20:38:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:38:33 mle [~emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:41:44 lp #458354 20:41:56 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:42:07 lp 458354 20:42:39 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:44 hrm why did it work for nyef this morning? :-( 20:43:05 Good question. 20:43:14 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:16 lp foo 20:43:25 Ah. 20:43:30 I see what happened. 20:43:41 -!- gio123 [~c188270a@gateway/web/freenode/x-ahzpjhajzlosfplv] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:43:47 could you also make it work on the #nnnnnn syntax, please? (in case it couldn't handle that) 20:43:58 Hey, you want miracles? 20:44:00 easier to copy&paste 20:45:04 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:44 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:06 Okay, that should fix the basic problem. 20:46:15 lp 458354 20:46:16 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/458354 20:47:58 -!- splittist [~5c97aa49@gateway/web/freenode/x-akisuxkyabdcyekg] has quit [] 20:48:30 lp #458354 20:48:30 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/#458354 20:49:20 lp #458354 20:49:21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/458354 20:49:25 tcr: Cheers. 20:49:30 yay 20:51:19 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 20:52:59 christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:08 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:15 paines [~paines@xdsl-87-78-109-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-153-69.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:22 hi 20:55:30 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.154] has joined #lisp 20:55:32 8 20:56:43 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:57:37 i have setup emacs+slime+ecl. now i am trying to load lispbuilder-sdl (via (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :lispbuilder-sdl) which fails. 20:57:58 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:00 i am getting the error that the component cannot be found 20:58:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:58:28 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:58:44 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 20:58:58 i guess the lispbuilder-sdl package isn't pulled, and that I have to put it somewhere manually 20:59:14 you have to link its .asd file to a place that's in asdf:*central-registry* 20:59:23 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 20:59:40 possibly, you also have to push a directory to asdf:*central-registry* in your ~/.eclrc 21:00:05 i see 21:00:10 e.g. I have (push "/home/tcr/software/registry/" asdf:*central-registry*) in my ~/.eclrc 21:00:19 (the trailing slash is important) 21:00:57 (and whether "~/foo" is expanded is implementation dependent, dunno about ecl) 21:01:24 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:01:40 ~/software/registry/ contains symlinks to the .asd files found in ~/src/**/*.asd 21:02:51 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-181.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 -!- porcelina_ [~kay@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:03:29 fe[nl]ix: Does git pull on your asdf checkout also takes ages? 21:03:40 fe[nl]ix: lots of walk ...\ngot... for me here 21:03:58 tcr: what are you talking about ? 21:04:24 I mean if you update your asdf checkout via git 21:04:57 takes 30s here or something which is pretty bad for its small size 21:05:02 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.102.14] has joined #lisp 21:06:27 tcr,look much better now 21:06:29 tcr: it takes 0m0.708s here via git:// 21:06:47 now i have a cffi error, i guess i will have to install that package too 21:08:18 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:30 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.102.14] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:12:47 jsoft_ [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 tcr: if you have walk ... got ... you must be fetching via http:// 21:13:05 and that's very slow indeed 21:13:27 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:33 that's what advised on the website 21:14:42 for git:// I'm supposed to track fare's repo? 21:14:57 holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 21:15:06 -!- codewad [~codewad@d173-183-92-136.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:16:44 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.124] has joined #lisp 21:17:43 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:18:12 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:49 tcr: see http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/asdf/asdf.git 21:18:57 use the git:// method 21:20:10 use «git config remote.origin.url git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git» 21:20:48 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:57 ah cool 21:20:58 thanks 21:21:08 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:01 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:14 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:38 tcr: after cffi, babel, trivial-features and alexandria it compiled finally. 21:23:46 :-) 21:24:00 minion: tell paines about clbuild 21:24:02 paines: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 21:24:10 that will download & maintain asd files for you 21:24:50 nicd 21:24:52 nice 21:24:53 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:00 i will take a look 21:25:06 thank you very much for all the help 21:25:09 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:34 no problem 21:25:35 codewad [~codewad@d173-183-92-136.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:52 as a newcomer, another common pitfall is that you do not have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) in your .emacs 21:26:10 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:10 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:39 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 21:26:54 of course i haven't 21:26:57 :-D 21:27:27 make sure that your load-path is also set to slime/contrib 21:28:22 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:09 okay. i added that too 21:30:20 oh yes 21:30:48 tcr: now presing tab after asdf: gives me a list) 21:31:56 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:59 in the minibuffer, you should also get nicely formatted arglist display; unfortunately ECL's support for that is a bit lacking; but try `(subseq |' where | is the cursor 21:33:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:15 You probably know about M-. and M-* already? It will take you to a definition, and back 21:35:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:35:46 yes, from c editing 21:36:15 lispm [~joswig@g224125186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:37 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:37:23 will work for Lisp out of the box :-) 21:37:57 tcr: xref stuff fixed in HEAD 21:38:39 zoe__ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 yup saw that, very cool 21:39:08 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.70] has joined #lisp 21:39:15 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:39:18 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:46 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:39:49 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 nikodemus: When I looked at xref.lisp last time, I tried to do some cleanup, like using do-blocks, and do-nodes in record-component-xrefs 21:40:56 I was also trying to rename call-with-external-block-functionals, but it turned out that the name I came up with wasn't quite right either :-) 21:41:04 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:10 -!- xan_ is now known as xan-afk 21:48:50 -!- zoe__ is now known as zoe 21:49:34 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:50:39 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:51 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:24 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:52:52 laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:55 -!- laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:53:40 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:45 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:19 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:54:31 Phoodus [~foo@97-124-121-147.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:39 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:56 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:13 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 21:57:23 zoe__ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:31 -!- j4k0b [j4k0b@93.182.185.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:31 j4k0b [j4k0b@93.182.185.78] has joined #lisp 21:58:50 if you have a reader macro, that only applies to .lisp files read, right? Once in a .fasl, both the reader macros and (defmacro (...)) had their go? 21:59:31 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsler200.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:53 the reader macro itself is probably still there, but its uses in the source are expanded yeah 22:00:25 -!- zoe__ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:42 the reader macro would probably apply to any source the .fasl read with (read) or similar? 22:00:56 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 22:02:31 I suggest you use http://common-lisp.net/project/named-readtables/ to specify which source files should be compiled with what readtable settings 22:03:01 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.70] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 22:03:24 not planning on actually using them anytime soon, more a theoretical question I had 22:04:23 reader macros are stored in readtables, and the current readtable is in *readtable*; compile-file compiles source files with *readtable* 22:05:26 -!- holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:29 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: To smash the little atom / All mankind was intent. / Now every day / The atom may / Return the compliment.] 22:05:34 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.101.102.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:08:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:11:11 -!- k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:41 k4jd095b_ [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #lisp 22:12:30 -!- deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 22:13:04 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:13:13 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:13:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:12 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:03 quick question regarding *very* low level coding: Can I safely assume (for most arches) that "positive" pointer values are in userspace and "negative" mean kernel space? 22:15:04 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:28 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:31 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:10 netytan [~netytan@85.211.40.203] has joined #lisp 22:17:48 milaz [~milaz@85.174.147.41] has joined #lisp 22:18:02 <_8david> isn't the default split at 3G/1G in 32bit linux? 22:18:16 hi, I'm attempting to use &key with &rest in a macro... is the best way to do it to put the arguments in a list? ie. (mymacro (foo :bar "baz") rest...) 22:18:53 (believe or not, it is lisp-related) 22:20:11 jao [~jao@83.42.210.7] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 _8david: right. forgot that one. Back to untaged pointers, then 22:20:38 (also, the default is 2g/2g, 3g/1g was added later) 22:20:39 (p_l): I'm not sure if it works this way under new Windows, if you care about them ;) 22:20:46 -!- Guest4116 [~pragma@blackshell.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:20:46 Guest4116 [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 22:20:48 -!- Guest4116 is now known as pragma_ 22:21:02 TeMPOraL: you need to start windows with extra boot options to switch to 3g/1g 22:21:09 MS messed something with pointers and/or object handles in order to improve security 22:21:23 _8david: nowadays that's the default 22:21:51 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:22:24 TeMPOraL: /3G NTkernel option switches to 3g/1g split (and is known to confuse badly-written code). The randomized memory map is available only for specially-built PIE executables. 22:22:45 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:59 (and position-independent executables are only available on Vista and later) 22:23:09 right 22:23:15 anyway, back to untagged pointers for me :D 22:23:17 still, that was the thing I was referring to 22:23:32 but you seem to know a lot of things about it, much, much more than I do ;) 22:23:58 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-147.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:55 still, it means no CDR coding for me :/ 22:26:52 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:27:50 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:32:46 *p_l* was writing a set of tools for better FFI 22:33:14 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:45 better FFI? 22:33:54 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:34:45 Sumpen3026 [Sumpen@138.199.66.64] has joined #lisp 22:35:19 p_l: such as ? 22:35:31 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:42 fe[nl]ix: A way to construct Lisp types in C wrappers etc. 22:35:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:32 so I could return a plist for example from C function :-) 22:37:23 p_l: one such way already exists 22:37:28 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:37:57 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:31 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:26 fe[nl]ix: other than constructing the types on lisp side? 22:41:02 what do you mean by that ? 22:42:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:53 fe[nl]ix: Well, my idea was to make a library for constructing Lisp-style lists on the "foreign" side then simply returning pointer to first cell. The only other way I knew already was to use only C types and use them on lisp side - but I might be missing something 22:45:18 oh 22:45:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:46:14 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:39 It would seem that some duplication of effort is in order, though. If you are going to use them in lisp, make lisp generate the struct building in C and have C pass in a pointer that returns the lisp cell to return. Otherwise it seems it's 2x the work on the C side. 22:46:56 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:04 I may be missing something basic, though 22:47:18 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:47:25 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:47:31 -!- paines [~paines@xdsl-87-78-109-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:48:33 ekpneo: different implementations might have different layout. This is more of convenience fire-and-forget translation 22:49:06 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8B18.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:07 Wouldn't this require introspection on the C side? 22:50:28 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:43 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:51:21 (p_l): I see you try to do this very low-level; won't there be problems with keeping C and Lisp byte-aligned then? 22:52:53 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:38 egn: no, that's possible in defun 22:54:05 konr [~konrad@187.106.50.154] has joined #lisp 22:54:30 prxq: okay, I don't want to quote rest though 22:54:36 when calling it 22:55:07 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:55:31 -!- codewad [~codewad@d173-183-92-136.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:55:52 wgl` [~wgl@104.sub-75-207-83.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:53 egn: hm? 22:56:25 egn: i got you wrong. Normally, the best way is as you sugested 22:57:03 TeMPOraL: nope, my current cons-cell is always 128bit 22:57:28 or rather, 256bit per cell, 128bit per value in cell 22:57:59 though I might make it smaller when I finish tagging part 22:58:32 (the 128bit was from idea to deal with signed pointers) 22:59:06 prxq: k, cool, thanks 22:59:19 128bit might work for the whole cell though, since all known to me (and usable) 64bit architectures mandate signed pointers 23:01:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:11 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:36 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d83092.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:50 porcelina_ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 -!- porcelina_ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:52 -!- prxq [~mommer@g228011118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:54 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-53.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:54 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-53.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:02:54 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:03:24 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.124] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 23:03:38 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.172] has joined #lisp 23:05:23 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:06:42 -!- porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:06:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:08:12 prxq [~mommer@g228011118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:08:12 xan-afk_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:39 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:54 -!- xan-afk [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:00 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:24 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:55 prxq: also, is there an easy way to parse a list as "arguments/keys" or is that up to me? ie. (arg-1 arg-2 &key baz) + ('foo 'bar :baz "baz") = some expansion of (let ((arg-1 'foo) ...) 23:14:01 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-26-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:15 egn: why do you want to do this manually? 23:15:16 egn: i didn't get that. You can take a 'generalized' argument list and parse it alright with destructuring-bind, which incidentally is what happens with macros. If you do (destructuring-bind (arg-1 arg-2 &key baz) '(foo bar :baz "baz") I think you get what you want 23:15:59 prxq: ah, okay excellent 23:16:26 Ralith: making (mymacro (arg-1 arg-2 :key-1 "foo") rest...) 23:17:21 egn: (defmacro mymacro ((arg-1 arg-2 &key key-1) &body body) ...) 23:17:25 :P 23:17:47 !! 23:17:54 pretty sure, anyway. 23:18:17 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-26-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:22 (note that this is a feature of macro args only; functions can't do it) 23:19:04 -!- xan-afk_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:40 witchcraft I say... it works 23:19:41 thanks 23:20:15 xan-afk [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:20:37 np 23:21:06 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:45 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@173-45-241-173.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:02 -!- plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: plovs] 23:25:46 -!- prxq [~mommer@g228011118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:43 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-212-203.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:15 -!- milaz [~milaz@85.174.147.41] has left #lisp 23:31:46 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-127-141.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:48 JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:07 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:34:54 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224125186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:43 TR2N [email@89.180.158.168] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.20] has joined #lisp 23:38:08 btw, for those interested in literate programming, have you looked at Parenscript's pbook? 23:39:24 is that different from luke gorrie's pbook? 23:40:19 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:27 -!- ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:41 Xach: not sure, this one simply used a script to generate a latex document from a lisp source, where the comments become text of the book and the code gets put into apriopriate environment. 23:41:56 oo, neat 23:44:01 plovs [~plovs@a83-163-231-19.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:44:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.233.108.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:47:23 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 23:47:56 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:48:35 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:43 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:49 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:49:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:23 -!- JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:49:36 JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:39 -!- _3b`` [foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:21 -!- Sumpen3026 [Sumpen@138.199.66.64] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 23:52:10 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:37 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-53.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:37 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-53.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:54:37 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:55:31 PatrickMcLaren [~Patrick@ppp118-209-198-10.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:47 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:31 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:29 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:03 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-84.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]