00:00:01 adeht: "...which must be a symbol whole global function definition is a one-argument predicate." 00:00:04 clhs satisfies 00:00:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_satisf.htm 00:00:10 whose* 00:00:13 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-99-252.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:00:18 yes, that is the current situation with satisfies 00:01:26 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@ip67-152-153-45.z153-152-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:02:28 konr```` [~user@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 00:02:51 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:02:52 but why not have (deftype goo (bar) `(statisfies foo ,bar)) (typep object '(goo 123)) call foo with object and 123 00:03:02 -!- kom_ is now known as kom 00:03:31 -!- kom is now known as kom_ 00:03:32 -!- gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:57 I wonder if (let ((x 1)) (defun xp (y) (eql x y)) (deftype .... '(satisfies xp)) (and (typep *something* '(satisfies xp)) (typep *something* ....))) would work as I would expect... hm 00:04:10 Well, for starters, you've now introduced a dependency in the type system on the quasiquote mechanism... 00:04:21 nyef: I did not 00:04:25 -!- konr``` [~user@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:36 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 -!- kazoo [~WHY@pool-71-104-120-200.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:05:11 Okay, I'm clearly not up to thinking this through right now. 00:05:34 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:41 sykopomp: according to my understand yes.. but the point is I want the value of X to depend on the typespec 00:06:41 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has joined #lisp 00:07:27 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:29 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:09:31 the symbol passed to satisfies should already be stored somewhere 00:09:52 couldn't it store the cddr as well? 00:09:58 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:46 Aren't the various BOOLE-* constants and the BOOLE function redundant when you've got actual functions for those operations and FUNCALL? 00:10:57 X-02 [~schopenha@91.106.138.63] has joined #lisp 00:11:40 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-65-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:12:12 malsyned: there is an interesting post about that from Erik Naggum to Peter Seibel 00:12:38 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=boole <-- two posts, even 00:13:35 seibel: is your blog down or just really slow? 00:13:39 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:13:42 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:38 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-161-8.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:41 *adeht* should try and hack that extension into sbcl? 00:16:18 -!- prip [~foo@host203-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:16:22 malsyned: does that surprise you?... this is a language with PROG after all. 00:17:23 PROG is what, AIM-11? somewhere around there. 00:17:28 drewc: did you finally find a use for PROG? 00:17:53 stassats`: really close once, but i needed to name the block :( 00:18:15 yeah, i remember that struggle 00:18:37 i do, however, reach for tagbody more often now. 00:18:57 strangely enough, because of haskell influence. 00:19:05 problem is it's not really backwards-compatible, because compilers/code-walkers/etc. may assume that a satisfies list must have just two elements 00:19:15 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 00:19:45 prip [~foo@host203-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:20:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:27:55 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:30:21 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:30:50 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:53 benny [~benny@i577A8834.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:02 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:17 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 00:33:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:34:42 Xach: down it seems. It's sitting in LDB. Not good. 00:35:25 Up now. 00:35:40 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:37:03 seibel: you have to disable LDB and deliver behind runit or something similar that will restart the crashed image 00:37:26 Xach: looks like the search results page is missing a semicolon for < 00:37:53 seibel: or at least, that's what i do... easier than fixing the problem :P 00:40:31 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 00:44:15 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:20 seibel: And, for the record, you don't need to rebuild SBCL to kill LDB, either use DISABLE-DEBUGGER (in SB-EXT?), or there's a function in the runtime that you can call with sb-alien that will kill LDB without affecting the lisp-side debugger. 00:45:46 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 00:46:16 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:47 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:58 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:59 seibel: yeah, i have such code, just ask. 00:50:49 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:24 lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 00:52:25 Probably what I should really do is figure out why the heap is being exhausted. 00:53:16 -!- HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:56:20 hi there, I'd like to ask a question.. 00:56:54 How can I use &body and &key at the same time when I define a macro? 00:57:42 <_3b> clhs 3.4.4 00:57:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dd.htm 00:57:55 <_3b> any way that matches that grammar ^ 00:57:55 If I wirte like (defmacro test (a &rest b &key c)... that function just accepts 3 variables.. 00:58:16 X-02: macro lambda lists can destructure a bit more, so you might see something like (defmacro with-open-file ((stream file &key options) &body body) ...) 00:58:34 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:59:23 _3b: Oh, thanks. I just watched clhs about defmacro.. 00:59:55 specbot: thanks indeed, too 01:02:49 adeht: seems possible, do you have an example search i can try to see it? 01:03:08 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:34 Xach: the one you just posted.. browsers like Opera render it as < .. 01:04:00 but not emacs-w3m :) 01:04:06 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 oh, i see. 01:05:01 Xach: thanks, I'll consider of what you tought me seeing clhs.. 01:07:24 adeht: thanks, fixed 01:08:19 *p_l* just read the PDP-10 heritage of bool-* and is impressed 01:08:33 Xach: yeah, works now 01:09:14 p_l: I still don't understand the purpose of his boole-* values choice 01:09:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:10:58 maden_ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:11:40 And, can I ask about one more thing? I'm wondering which to use to define a function with several outputs, a list or multiple values. 01:11:41 hi 01:11:41 *drewc* hugs C-u C-c C-c from the debugger... look at all those locals! 01:12:41 X-02: that depends on how you plan to use the return value(s). 01:13:31 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 01:13:38 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44b17d.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:13:43 drewc: mostly another function will get the return values 01:14:13 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.16.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:16 <_3b> X-02: if there is a main value that you usually want, and extra values that you frequently don't want, use multiple values 01:14:33 <_3b> X-02: if you always want all the values, use a list (or class, struct, etc) 01:14:37 So in the defun of another fun, it'll be a list using &rest 01:15:19 <_3b> X-02: unless the consing from creating a list is a problem, in which case multiple values might be good again 01:15:36 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:16:00 _3b: hmm, just as many libraries do. I understand. 01:16:17 <_3b> if you always pass the results to a specific function, possibly you want multiple-value-call or apply 01:16:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:16:49 <_3b> (assuming i guessed the intent of the question about &rest right) 01:17:45 _3b: yes, I have to use it. 01:18:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.71.218] has joined #lisp 01:18:31 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:04 I just supposed if functions evaluate several values and return several ones, it'd be just structually beautiful and natural 01:21:01 if you want to return a list, you return a list. If you have a specific group of data, you probably want a struct or ar class. If you just need to pass some values between a few functions, then you want VALUES, M-V-C etc. 01:21:29 clhs m-v-c 01:21:30 MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_multip.htm 01:21:36 spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fbodyzcftkogecal] has joined #lisp 01:22:48 is lispy actively developed? (with exception of one change, nearly all of them are older than 6 months) 01:23:10 McCarty's original proposal for mutiple values was a little more 'first class' then what ended up in CL, but most CL implementations will pass things in registers given the right incantations. 01:23:32 p_l: maybe it's 'done'... in that it works for whomever is using it 01:23:49 *p_l* shudders recalling multiple value return on register stack 01:24:14 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:37 do any college still teach lisp? if so, where? 01:24:46 Yes, I'm using them. And when the function accepts the multiple values by m-v-c and &rest, the values eventually become a list. 01:25:18 X-02: i would expect a good compiler to never create a list given the right circumstances. ie: 01:26:25 (defun foo () (values 1 2)) (defun bar (&rest baz) (m-v-b (one two) baz (bat 1 2)) (m-v-c #'baz (foo))) 01:26:40 wait 01:26:43 that's not going to wor 01:26:44 work 01:26:55 i'm not thinking straight anymore! 01:26:56 :P 01:27:10 *drewc* just m-v-b'd a list 01:27:11 drewc: thanks for much help really 01:27:19 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 01:29:40 *nyef* has manually destructured the result from m-v-l and had the list-consing be elided. 01:30:56 nyef: i'm glad someone knows what they're doing :) 01:31:08 *drewc* slinks back to screwing up meta-level code 01:31:37 -!- seibel [~user@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:55 Ugly lisp code of the day as found in a paper: http://www.dfki.uni-kl.de/dfkidok/publications/TM/94/04/abstract.html 01:35:05 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.100] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:37:55 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:38:32 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 01:39:14 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:32 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:43:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:43:57 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:10 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:03 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:12 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 01:47:46 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-216-227-57-230.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-216-227-57-230.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:47:46 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:49:21 -!- konr```` [~user@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:49:22 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:50:22 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:51:41 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:48 mejja: owww my eyes! 01:53:51 mejja, good point first bit i saw had a strange remove-duplicates with the result stored nowhere 01:54:35 -!- maden_ [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:47 closing parens on lines by themselves... seems to capitalize AND and OR but nothing else... ?! 01:55:01 the best bit is the way they spell successful :) 01:55:19 oh, and NOT as well 01:55:21 weird 01:55:46 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179123249.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 01:56:33 good use of append instead of push, and awesome use of global variables without *s 01:58:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B8CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:01:32 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:20 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 02:04:22 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-blcgakbnywumbmpr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:04:27 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-twyvhidqjqtxolcb] has joined #lisp 02:06:48 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-3-215.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:07:28 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:15 beach: I looked into Lispy regarding packaging, and I've got this scatterbrained idea of extending it to support clbuild-style downloads (but as "advanced function") and making a goal of putting (documented) software packaging of all packages listed on cl-user.net. How do you like such project? :) 02:15:32 p_l: i think packaging all software just because it appears on a publically editable site is a horrible way to ensure any quality or consistency. I'm not beach though :P 02:15:55 drewc: I'm not saying "package it into one file" 02:16:02 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:16:17 Ok. linedit works again. (updates to osicat etc. had broken it) 02:16:25 no, but really... every crappy library any joe lisp user has ever thrown out there... why package it? 02:16:36 also, what's the win over just using clbuild? 02:17:00 but rather a list of installable packages (separated into categories, including "quality" based) and without packages that truly don't fit 02:17:27 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:49 clbuild is far from complete.. I keep having to add to it 02:17:53 Maybe we're going about this whole "packaging" thing all wrong? 02:18:13 drewc: 1) stable releases 2) Some people seem unhappy with clbuild way 3) the project is more about providing a vetted set of packages that are easy to install 02:18:19 nyef: i like lispy, i think it's quite close the ideas we once discussed. 02:18:39 drewc: lispy already provides support for separate maps (like "official" and "experimental" that already exist) 02:18:42 p_l: so what exactly are you proposing to add to lispy? 02:19:30 to me, 02:19:31 what I don't understand is why do these things need "vetted"? Who vets any of the other software repositories out there. Ruby gems and perl's cpan come quickly to mind. 02:19:44 clbuild style means 'gets something from VCS' 02:19:55 drewc: more maps, possibly also a CLI interface and maybe a tool to easily generate packages for it (including importing from clbuild-style VCS distribution) 02:20:21 The only thing that needs done is a way to provide a secure/stable link that can't be edited by any random wiki edit. 02:20:23 nixeagle: vetted in this case means that "this map got all the packages checked for working etc.". User is free to add their own 02:20:33 but there is no easy way to tell is the VC version is stable or not.. 02:20:35 p_l: well, those are all good ideas... what's stopping you? :) 02:20:47 drewc: I'm actually already working a little on it :) 02:21:11 it sounds like you just want to create tools to make it easier to package for lispy, and a shell for easy use of lispy outside you lisp. 02:21:29 outside of your lisp* 02:21:31 drewc: that, plus manage some maps 02:21:35 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:38 well if you worked from cl-user, the trick would be automatically finding the software repositories and finding the .asd/whatever system builder files and calculating dependencies. 02:22:19 drewc: I have to admit, RubyGems and Cabal-Install are two great inspirations for me when it comes to packaging :-) 02:22:20 I don't mean calculate them by trying to compile every package, I mean simply check that the deps listed are sane and none of the deps listed are _not_ in the repo. 02:22:24 p_l: sounds good to me 02:22:40 p_l: i've never used either, so i'll have to believe you :) 02:23:31 cl-user's links are not editable by anyone correct? 02:23:45 eg as far as I can tell, only the authors can edit them? 02:24:23 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 02:24:44 p_l pasted "Cabal-install functionality (for comparison, from user's pov)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96273 02:25:13 p_l: what do you know about cl-user? 02:25:26 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:38 nixeagle: for me, it's just a directory (which might use a slightly better UI...), it also seems that only maker of the entry can edit later 02:26:49 I don't plan on automatic generation of packages from the links 02:27:25 But I find cl-user.net to be a good place to find a lot of software that "slips through the fingers" when I'm searching other places (like CLiki etc.) 02:27:29 p_l: looks cool, i'd personally love to see a tool like that for CL. 02:28:33 p_l: ah. Ok, the problem I see with asdf-install is the whole gpg thing and links being randomly updated. Most of the other installers depend on some sort of _open_ location for authors to link/upload software that others can install. Is that in line with what you are working on? 02:29:10 what college still teach lisp? 02:29:18 the big one being you can trust the links ^-^ 02:29:21 p_l annotated #96273 "RubyGems v1.3.5 (Ruby/1.9.1) for comparison" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96273#1 02:30:32 nixeagle: ASDF-Install had problem with keys because each package was responsible for itself - in Lispy, you use single key per map (i.e. the person preparing a map is also signer of all packages they put into it) 02:30:41 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:08 right, like apt-get 02:31:08 (btw - my RubyGems install is slightly modified with extensions) 02:31:39 drewc: well apt-get does not go with "maps" those are all packages where the maintainers specify dependencies. 02:31:46 i just recently got into lisp, should i look forward learning more about? is the language still widely used on the IT market? 02:31:52 p_l annotated #96273 "multiple sources in RubyGems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96273#2 02:31:56 drewc: what I'm talking about is _no maintainers_. 02:32:13 lispy "map" is apt-get "repository" 02:32:26 nobody maintains cpan or perl gems as some central authority. 02:33:09 <_3b> maden: there are some CL users, but the usual advice if you want to use CL professionally is to make your own CL job :) 02:33:15 What those do provide though is reliable links ^-^ 02:33:26 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:27 (or source, whatever may have you) 02:33:37 _3b: thank you. 02:33:53 I guess ill just keep learning it for fun and general knowledge. 02:33:56 nixeagle: we can work some scheme for cpan-style management as well. RubyGems got a lot of push from being supported through RubyForge, which automated the publication process. The same with GitHub, which also includes automated Gem builder whenever you tag a version for release 02:34:18 <_3b> maden: see http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ for some idea of the market 02:34:53 interesting website 02:35:11 so, we could make it so that every project on common-lisp.net would automatically get included in map provided by common-lisp.net (assuming apriopriate definition file is included in repo, GitHub/RubyForge style) 02:35:12 p_l: right, but the big thing with those services is there is no maintainer middleman between the source and the user. As long as you validate the uploader and the downloaders trust the service to have validated the uploaders you have similar trust levels to cpan. 02:35:51 nixeagle: those are all possible modifications to Lispy. I'm all for that :) 02:35:52 what makes debian packages so old is nobody wants to actively maintain them (not enough people) 02:36:08 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:38:01 p_l: just throwing observations out, I have written perl and ruby programs before. CL really just does not have equivalents to gems or modules, asdf-install comes close but the site itself is not trusted, so everyone has to validate trust themselves which is a pain. 02:38:21 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Quit: dgjhsgkdhfgs] 02:39:16 nixeagle: I agree, CL doesn't tackle modules at all (Haskell is similar, but the only compiler that a "general user" might use - GHC - has a packaging system) 02:39:37 right, and cl has no such thing, heck not every implementation has asdf built in 02:39:41 but Gems were also dropped into a language that didn't have anything other than LOAD for module support 02:40:51 p_l: but it worked, the key thing is how easy gems were to use, and how easy they were for application/library writers to get their code up on it. All those systems you are looking at have one thing in common, the distribution/pointer website is a trusted thing. 02:41:34 nixeagle: or allows to track the uploader (RubyGems) 02:41:39 right! 02:41:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.71.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:41:53 trust is validated through the website more then by all the users 02:43:02 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:43:43 nixeagle: common-lisp.net could be nicely reused for that 02:44:13 p_l: maybe if all interesting libraries are mentioned on it. 02:44:15 (there's already a keyring etc.) 02:44:39 p_l: interesting, so a frontend to that or as you said a "map" might go well 02:45:41 nixeagle: there could be two kinds of repositories - "automatic", where there's some authority that ensures that you can track who uploaded the code, and the current style maps, where there's one signer for the whole repo 02:46:12 p_l: that could work and have a chance of solving some of the issues people see 02:46:28 asdf-install gets _some_ things right. clbuild gets other things right :P 02:46:46 nixeagle: it could be also mixed, like making public repositories of other peoples code, where someone does basically a NMU releases 02:48:04 p_l: right, I don't have too much of a problem with maintainers, but maybe that kind of human checking should be reserved for the known popular/used libraries but have some way to make the others (securely) available. 02:49:17 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:33 Emzzzz [~Emzzzz@pa58-109-217-87.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:49:33 http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268361783.jpg/ do my tits look big? 02:49:35 -!- Emzzzz [~Emzzzz@pa58-109-217-87.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 02:49:59 I mean if debian, a large project with many experienced people) has trouble with maintaining cl packages, I'm not too optimistic on anyone else being able to maintain cl software for too long before burning out or finding a new project. 02:50:03 p_l annotated #96273 "Example dump of metadata from GHC-PKG (used by Cabal to actually direct GHC to installed packages)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96273#3 02:50:49 nixeagle: the issue is also that Debian tried to put the packages into a specific structure, I guess. And they were too rigid with uploads? :D 02:50:57 yes 02:51:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 p_l: exactly 02:51:37 p_l: there is not enough manpower to reasonably keep up to date with common lisp libraries. People would rather code lisp then maintain packages from what I have seen. 02:51:46 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:56 nixeagle: well, beach's proposal was to hire someone part-time 02:52:16 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:22 p_l: if the funding is there, sure. But strictly its not required to improve the state of things 02:52:46 just look at what everyone else does to solve the problem (outside of distributions) 02:53:25 nixeagle: I agree. Funding might simply be the case of strapping a powerful enough engine to the barn doors while trying to make a satellite in stable orbit :) 02:53:32 p_l: re your paste: the dep info is already in the packages, really all you would need for fast package lookup is the asd file (and whatever other popular build systems use for dep listing). You can more or less depend on the asd files to be accurate for dependencies, if its not, the package is broken. 02:54:11 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 02:54:20 nixeagle: the dependency info in the dump included exact versions that the *local* binaries got linked to - a GHC-specific thing, I'd say 02:54:43 p_l: yeah, I don't think we have to distribute binaries 02:54:55 but versioned dependencies would be nice... 02:54:56 the info is already in the code, if the code compiles, the info is accurate. 02:55:10 p_l: asdf supports a version field, not that people use it :S 02:55:31 p_l: but that is added onto what is already there. Don't toss away good information because its wanting one thing 02:55:57 asd files are very good about stating what that file at that point in time depends on 02:56:05 nixeagle: ASDF allows you to specify version, but doesn't allow you to require *specific* versionj 02:56:08 *version 02:56:28 p_l: that can be added on to any extending system though 02:56:49 nixeagle: that's what I meant by automating things - I want to make a script that would grovel data from ASDF/XCVB and generate/update description files used by packaging system 02:56:50 p_l: what I'm more or less advocating is pushing some of the maintainer work to library writers. Most of them are smart enough to get deps right, if they are not smart enough then it won't compile! 02:58:52 bytecolor pasted "cos 90d" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96274 03:00:56 hmm.. I guess I kinda got my todo for what I tentatively nicknamed  release ;-) 03:02:19 now to achieve all milestones between "now" and the goal :D 03:03:51 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:05:02 p_l: you know, thinking about it, asd files already have versions, if you grovel them regularly you could automatically note the version change 03:05:36 or the easiest option is just to allow library writers to say "this is a new version" 03:06:10 nixeagle: Library writers already get to say "this is a new version": They update the release tarball. 03:06:33 nixeagle: I know. I was thinking of including something similar to "upload" command from gems/cabal, which would automatically run checks on asdf files etc. to ensure that versioning is proper 03:06:33 nyef: aha! of course ;) 03:06:49 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-70-23-81-197.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:22 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:10:27 p_l: might help, the big thing is shifting as much of the "maintainer" work to library writers who are already motivated enough to want to have it distributed. Try not to introduce too much of an artificial bottleneck there between the lib writer and the lib actually being distributed. 03:11:48 and making the amount of *added* work minimal. They already have to write ASDF files :) 03:12:10 Part the first, an automatic monitoring system that checks for new releases, etc. Part the second, an easy mechanism to set up said monitoring system for a new library. Part the third, a submission form somewhere. 03:12:11 right! but if you have to reject an upload or a "pull notification" or whatever, don't be afraid to do so 03:12:23 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 03:12:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 03:13:12 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:13 nyef: or something like Cabal/Gems, where the library writer/maintainer (whoever is responsible for deciding when a version is ready) sets the version number and hits "cabal upload" 03:13:33 nyef: well if you are on github, a hook can be setup. I set one up with hunchentoot already, and am going to release the helper code in the next cl-github update. So I know its possible for at least github and probably other services to notify about new pushes/commits. 03:13:43 p_l: library writer says new version is ready 03:14:10 I started with the assumption that library maintainers find release engineering more than sufficient hassle that anything more complicated such as actually -announcing- a new release is a step too far. 03:14:14 nixeagle: "maintainer" in that sentence was equivalent to "whoever is responsible for saying the new version is ready in the project, if there's more than one person" 03:14:32 p_l: ah ok 03:14:35 And I -justify- this assumption by the number of critical packages that don't do release engineering on any kind of a timely basis. 03:14:42 nyef: in this case, the announcement is automatic after running the "upload" task 03:15:25 nyef: git repositories and others version control systems can be setup to notify about pushes/commits such that the upload task can be run automatically. 03:16:47 Good, good. Anything that makes the release process easier, and thus more likely to happen, is good. 03:16:48 nyef: I'm not saying this will work for every library out there, but the fewer human steps between upstream -> distribution -> users able to download the more likely it will actually work better then anything else out there. 03:17:03 I think we're in violent agreement. 03:17:11 indeed :) 03:18:13 -!- X-02 [~schopenha@91.106.138.63] has left #lisp 03:18:15 nyef: on github you can setup what is called a "commit hook" and have that point to a server somewhere that gets notified on new pushes to those repositories. I already have the server code written (for hunchentoot anyway) and it works fine and is all of 25 lines. 03:19:03 Saves polling, at least. 03:20:17 nyef: which is very good, plus if someone commits 20 commits, you only get one push notification. And github tells you what files were modified in the notification. so all you have to look for is a push that modifies a .asd or .foo file that is used for system building to look for a version update. 03:20:48 so you only have to look when something interesting is changed 03:21:10 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:53 p_l: let me know when what you have is to the point that notification mechanisms can be written. I can cover github with no sweat as the code for their api is already written. (I wrote it) 03:27:15 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:27:16 *p_l* notes that nobody called him for creating weird release nicknames 03:27:18 nixeagle: sure 03:28:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:30:42 nixeagle: what do you think of doing the hook similar way to how GitHub handles Gems? i.e. if the file specifying version changes after push, it generates new gem? 03:31:32 Okay, time I was gone. 03:31:40 nyef: cya 03:31:51 -!- nyef [~nyef@96.32.242.15] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:32:47 p_l: that can happen, what you do with the notification after you get it really does not matter. The main thing is making all of this as automated as possible. It might not work every time to 100% correctness, broken releases will happen and so on, but its better then way outdated packages and fixing broken stuff (which usually happens less often then new releases) takes less human resources then trying to triage all incoming releases. 03:33:21 .oO(If ruby has gems, does lisp have loogies?) 03:33:33  03:33:36 hah! 03:35:35 unfortunately, "mudballs" is already taken... :P 03:35:43 ahhh, to continue the tradition of superior technology with horrendous names. :) 03:36:11 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 03:36:19 well, my older idea for that kind of project was named "cludge" 03:40:23 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:41:02 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:47:17 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:47:33 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 03:47:46 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:46 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:47:46 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 03:47:59 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:45 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:49:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:03 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f734ec0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:45 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f727942.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:23 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:02 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:56:16 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:44 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 metasyntax` [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:45 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:13 -!- dys` is now known as dys 04:11:30 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:33 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:17:10 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:38 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:19:42 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:08 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 04:22:29 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:22:29 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 04:24:46 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:49 what's wrong with this class definition? it's from clos introdcution but doesn't work in ccl, it thinks i'm declaring person as a super-class for some reason. http://www.pasteit4me.com/165001 04:29:38 ah yes 04:29:42 it was because i'm a moron 04:30:03 never good to declare a struct with the same name first :D 04:30:19 lol 04:30:24 derrida: it happens :) 04:30:25 Speaking of morons, I have a question... 04:30:33 :) 04:31:17 It's painfully simple, but I haven't found the answer anywhere, if I want to write an if with two, erm, "truth forms", so, it does two things if the predicate is true, how do I do it? :/ 04:31:39 progn 04:31:58 *franki^* googles 04:32:03 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 04:32:04 franki^: the right answer is 'COND', but PROGN is the answer to your question 04:32:09 clhs progn 04:32:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 04:32:14 clhs cond 04:32:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm 04:33:13 drewc: Yes, cond is what I've been doing instead, but, I suppose that was the simplest example of "How to put two expressions where Lisp expects one" that I could think of. 04:33:17 And, thanks :) 04:33:36 franki^: also prog1 and prog2 04:33:50 no one uses prog1 and prog2 04:33:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hmyrkspvdrngqjzb] has joined #lisp 04:33:52 Yes, I saw them on the clhs page 04:33:57 Oh? 04:34:01 *drewc* uses prog1 and prog2 04:35:02 *adu* wonders what scheme analogs of those would be.... perhaps begi1 and begi2 04:35:31 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:42 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hmyrkspvdrngqjzb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uycuglhkvtxkmwls] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 -!- Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:41:01 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:41:03 sysfault_ [~exalted@ool-457381cb.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:31 -!- sysfault_ [~exalted@ool-457381cb.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:42:04 scheme would not bother, as it can be built with let and therefore rebuilt every time you need it :). Schemers like to program even more than i do. 04:43:33 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:48:05 Good morning! 04:48:55 morning 04:49:24 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:49:29 Morning 04:50:29 Hey psyllo. 04:51:07 Hey gigamonkey 04:51:10 You going to write for CQ? 04:51:26 I sent you (and 114 other people) email about it today. 04:52:11 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:40 I yet to publish a screencast or technical article. I'm always fear having to look back on it in disgust. I'm trying to start doing that though. 04:52:49 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:53:10 So, yeah. I'm definitely interested. 04:53:58 Well, the theory of CQ is you'll get more editorial assitance than you would if you wrote a book. 04:54:04 Or a blog. 04:54:15 -!- aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aquateen] 04:54:20 Okay 04:54:39 I don't know if academic journals give any help other than the referees or what kind of assitance they actually provide. 04:57:35 kngspook [~kngspook@unaffiliated/alpha] has joined #lisp 05:01:28 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:01:39 gigamonkey, I'm curious. If you could market PCL today, how would you approach it now? 05:01:47 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:40 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:05:05 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 05:05:26 pookleblinky: how do you mean? If I was writing it now? 05:06:40 Yes, given how successful the free ebook + tangible book system appears to be. 05:07:25 I think for PCL that would work as well today as it did in 2005. 05:07:40 But you might notice that Coders at Work is not available for free on the web. 05:07:53 I think that might really have hurt sales. 05:08:33 On the third hand, I'm expecting to have the content of Code Quarterly available on the web for free. Though that's all still up in the air and could change, yadda yadda. 05:08:39 morning! 05:08:50 Morning, p_l 05:09:14 morn' 05:09:34 morning 05:09:51 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:05 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:14:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-8-141.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:14:52 cmm [~cmm@109.65.8.141] has joined #lisp 05:15:40 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfwcgfyoqclhkhkn] has joined #lisp 05:16:03 -!- pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:17 <_rata_> hi 05:19:33 -!- savonarola [~savonarol@skript2.donet.ru] has left #lisp 05:22:06 yay! found my university's cluster :D 05:22:10 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 05:26:09 <_rata_> is there gigamonkey? 05:26:41 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-179-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:28:50 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:29:42 anyone know if CL-WHO is capable of preserving case? documentation indicates the following: "If the value of this variable is NIL, keyword symbols representing a tag or attribute name will not be automatically converted to lowercase. This is useful when one needs to output case sensitive XML. The default is T.", but setting it to NIL outputs all caps 05:30:07 ("variable" refers to *downcase-tokens-p*) 05:31:04 _rata_: you looking for me? 05:31:27 -!- saba [~saba@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:31:32 "Be he the gigamonkey I seek?!" 05:32:04 <_rata_> yes... i'm interested in your project code quarterly 05:33:02 <_rata_> and i'm to send mi info through your site, but just wanted you to know that i feel somewhat paranoid about sending it without encryption :P 05:33:49 <_rata_> (i hope not to be the only one person that suffers this kind of paranoia) 05:33:54 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 05:34:15 re, cl-who, perhaps I should rephrase my question. 05:34:32 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.166.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:32 :foo is read as :FOO. Unless I actually take the time to type out :|foo|. 05:34:42 does anyone here use Qi? 05:34:42 any way around this? or do I just need to live with it? 05:35:41 _rata_: Hmmm. You realize at some point, if all goes well, we plan to *publish* it right. ;-) 05:36:27 You can email me directly. I suppose if you send my GPG encrypted mail or something I could figure out how to decrypt it. Though I guess I'd need to give you my public key. 05:36:50 <_rata_> no, there's no need for that 05:36:56 <_rata_> i can control my paranoia 05:37:04 <_rata_> that's the easy way 05:38:32 Cool. Email me at editor@codequarterly.com. 05:38:57 <_rata_> in fact, i've submitted it already through the webpage 05:39:22 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:39:36 Okay. I'll grab it from there then. 05:39:41 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:40:06 gigamonkey, if your key's on any keyserver it should be simple. 05:40:36 It'd be his job to do all the work 05:40:43 pookleblinky: yeah, but it's not. I don't have a GPG key other than one I made many years ago to set up my c-l.net account. 05:40:48 Which I probably don't even have any more. 05:40:53 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:42:26 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:42:54 -!- l_n [~foo@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!] 05:43:38 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-147-30.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:12 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:45:33 -!- htk__ [~htk___@95.65.240.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:45:58 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47:19 Ha, found this: http://scarky.com/ 05:50:17 maden [~maden@dsl-147-30.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 05:50:32 There's gotta be a market for the kind of real-time hacking challenges I'm thinking about. 05:52:22 A kind of nethack.alt for coding. 05:54:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:56:58 <_rata_> pookleblinky: what are you thinking about? 05:57:46 Have you followed the Ruby Quiz, or Project Euler, etc? 05:59:18 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106002129a187e9.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:25 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 05:59:31 The one problem with them is that the coding is usually done in isolation (the 48 hour rule and such), then people look at all the other solutions. 06:00:37 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.178.15] has left #lisp 06:01:44 What I'd like to see, is a way for programming challenges to become more like a git repo, in a way. 06:02:28 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 "wow, team foo just picked a shitty quadratic time algorithm. I'll fork their code and fix it" 06:02:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:21 <_rata_> i'm following project euler 06:03:29 <_rata_> but i'm not that active in it 06:03:39 <_rata_> what is the "48 hour" rule? 06:03:54 <_rata_> if you can't solve a problem in two days stop trying? 06:04:33 In the Ruby Quiz, they try to keep people from posting their solutions and attempts to the mailinglist for the first 2 days. 06:05:05 <_rata_> ahh ok 06:05:17 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:35 But imagine if you had a nicely difficult problem, in which you could see each person/team's attempts to hack at it keystroke by keystroke. 06:06:30 <_rata_> hahahaaha.. that's a good idea i think... but i'd prefer something less stressing 06:06:50 Now imagine that this problem was actually of some use... 06:07:12 <_rata_> ok 06:08:29 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:46 Ogedei [~user@e178211213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:09:22 Suppose some problem in bioinformatics were released as a programming challenge into an environment encouraging rapid communication and competition. 06:09:57 For next to nothing getting many eyes addictively looking at the code. 06:11:46 Eh. A Mechanical Turk/WoW for coding seems a little extreme. 06:12:27 <_rata_> but competition and communication are not always go hand in hand (do you say so in english?) 06:14:05 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178211213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 06:15:32 I disagree. If competition makes people so eager to learn that they will steal and copypaste better ideas, it has enough force to get them to legitimately steal and copypaste better ideas. 06:15:47 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 06:17:02 Look at what firefox and other browser are doing as a response to Chrome. 06:17:31 One way of looking at it is an open sharing of ideas to make better programs. 06:17:41 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 Another way is large-scale peeking over shoulders. 06:18:20 <_rata_> what is doing firefox as a response to chrome? 06:18:47 <_rata_> is firefox using code from chrome? 06:18:51 "How small a scale can you go before it is no longer foss as understood?" is my question. 06:20:36 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:00 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:22:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:23:51 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:23:57 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:57 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:24:36 _rata_, iirc many people are trying to port chrome's sandboxing, webkit's features, into xulrunner and gecko 06:24:54 *pookleblinky* will have to search for some specifics 06:25:12 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:25:13 <_rata_> i think is always foss, no matter the scale 06:26:00 Off the top of my head, Tracemonkey vs Jagermonkey 06:27:21 <_rata_> ?? 06:28:13 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:28:58 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:29:10 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:29:42 Firefox is going to incorporate ideas from Chrome's javascript engine. 06:29:59 <_rata_> how do you do to put that " * pookleblinky will..."? 06:30:06 /me 06:30:10 /me text 06:32:32 <_rata_> ok, thanks :) 06:32:47 *_rata_* is paranoid :P 06:33:02 <_rata_> jajajaja 06:34:23 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-242-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 06:36:26 -!- kngspook [~kngspook@unaffiliated/alpha] has quit [Quit: kngspook] 06:37:07 or PRIVMSG #lisp :^AACTION foo bar baz quux~A if you're a happy telnet user :) 06:37:30 s/~A/^A/ 06:37:47 phadthai: there must be a lot of telnet users judging by the number of pingouts ;) 06:37:55 haha 06:38:56 *_rata_* didn't understand what gigamonkey meant when he said "Hmmm. You realize at some point, if all goes well, we plan to *publish* it right. ;-)" 06:40:00 *_rata_* thinks his english is worse than what he thought 06:40:40 _rata_: I did not quite follow either, but I have not been paying too close attention. 06:42:44 <_rata_> ok 06:43:29 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:49:14 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:49:52 _rata_, I think gigamonkey meant that being paranoid about people reading something you plan on making available for many people to read, is a bit too paranoid. 06:50:26 <_rata_> mmmm... but i wasnt paranoid about that 06:51:08 <_rata_> i was paranoid about sending my email address through the wire without encryption 06:51:12 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping 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[~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:48 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-pqnjacxiyxiazmxj] has joined #lisp 07:47:22 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 billitch_ [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:41 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:55 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:40 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662cef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 07:52:48 -!- prip [~foo@host203-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 07:53:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:54:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:16 pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-179-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:32 mega1 [~quassel@3e44a858.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:55:35 good morning 07:56:15 prip [~foo@host203-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 'morning ! 07:57:06 I have a strange problem with clos not finding an applicable method 07:57:26 i defined (defmethod meta- ((action (eql 'show)) 07:57:26 (object elephant:persistent-object)) 07:57:54 ==> There is no applicable method for the generic function # when called with arguments (SHOW #). 07:58:42 sorry, I also defined (defmethod meta- ((action (eql 'show)) (class elephant:persistent-metaclass)) which is more relevant here 07:58:58 can't clos specialize on class objects ? 07:59:10 or metaclass objects ? 07:59:31 billitch, i think you're one metalevel off 07:59:44 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:47 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f661988-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:00:02 really ? 08:00:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:16 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:00:53 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:59 right, so what is the class of the metaclass ? 08:02:20 shouldn't it be the metaclass itself ? 08:04:31 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:25 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:20 naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has joined #lisp 08:06:42 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 Gizle [~chatzilla@98.85-200-216.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 caljunior [~user@82-168-237-95.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:09:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:10:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:36 billitch: i think you are confused... i also think you are simply using the symbol SHOW from the wrong package 08:13:13 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14:31 drewc: right on ! 08:14:38 thanks 08:15:24 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:17 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:17:53 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:20:23 -!- naresh [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:27:11 Blkt [~user@93-33-131-207.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:27:49 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:31:32 -!- seangrove 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[~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:49 <_rata_> good morning 09:00:16 <_rata_> (here is actually night) 09:02:56 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 09:03:36 good morning splittist & _rata_ 09:04:28 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:17 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:05:58 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:31 <_rata_> good morning trebor_dki 09:07:24 EHLO 09:09:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:10:44 Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:13:06 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:13:23 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:17:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:02 nunb [~nundan@122.163.52.161] has joined #lisp 09:19:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:22:14 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:22:58 hlavaty [~hlavaty@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:03 -!- enthymene [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-178.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 09:26:24 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 09:29:50 is there a function that will do the same as assoc for a list like (:key-1 "some-val" :key-2 "some-other-val") 09:30:58 clhs: getf 09:30:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 09:31:17 lists like that are called property lists, aka plist 09:31:48 clhs: defvar 09:31:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 09:31:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:31:57 cool 09:32:05 thanx 09:32:17 The specbot I mean 09:33:24 jmbr [~jmbr@243.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 darn I knew i saw it some where before... 09:35:01 nikodemus: Can we get condition-wait/-notify fixed in current release? 09:35:56 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:36:16 maybe? 09:36:41 Perhaps I should take a look into glibc's pthread implementation how they implement cvars on top of futexes; not sure if I'll be able to understand something :-) 09:37:16 not sure if knowledge is transferable because they don't have deadlines, and handler-bind 09:37:52 i'm not guaranteed to get to it, but I can review a patch -- even one that conses :) 09:38:29 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:39:33 nikodemus: I'd like to have a way to tell the compiler to randomly emit calls to (thread-yield), perhaps between vops (not knowing anything in that part, that sounds doable) 09:40:31 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:40:45 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-pjisocbtrdhhsvmh] has joined #lisp 09:41:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:22 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:42:20 uhn 09:42:27 why on earth? 09:42:58 testing 09:43:28 oh! that's actually a interesting idea! 09:43:37 please post to sbcl-devel... 09:43:48 tcr: I guess some vops would need yield inside them, like length/list 09:44:40 if there was still a byte-code interpreter, the vm could do it and you wouldn't have to constantly recompile code 09:44:43 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:45:06 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-080.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:45:49 hm although that, too, would be of a very big granularity :-) I wonder if cpu-emulators can do something like that 09:47:13 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:20 this sounds like an idea that might have some prior art. have you looked yet? 09:48:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:48:49 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:49:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:52:31 kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #lisp 09:52:49 -!- kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has left #lisp 09:54:06 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:55:54 pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 sent 09:56:25 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-13-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:39 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:56:46 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 09:56:51 G'day! 09:57:16 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:53 tcr: I suppose you'd also have to know /where/ the thread-yield was inserted in order to debug this, right? 10:01:27 lambda_nil [~lambda_ni@81.Red-88-2-164.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:29 You should probably be able to specify the random-state that the compiler uses 10:01:31 hello spiaggia 10:01:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:02:00 and your test suite should save that (etc.) so you can reproduce test failure 10:03:54 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:36 nikodemus: Could you provide an actual patch regarding thread-os-thread? 10:05:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05:21 Just so one can reason about it with seeing the actual code 10:09:15 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:12:54 Tonijz [~Tonijz@85.254.194.65] has joined #lisp 10:13:24 unicode [~user@95.214.30.64] has joined #lisp 10:13:45 tcr: just sent to list 10:14:41 antifuchs: that isn't really significatly different from debugging threads normally 10:14:58 "what the hell is going on? WHEN? WHERE? WHY? aargh!" 10:16:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:05 nikodemus: but if you know where they were placed, you can strategically place sleeps there instead (: 10:16:55 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 10:19:00 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-111-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 10:19:14 Krystof [~csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:20:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:21:33 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 10:23:22 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:27 knowing where could help, yup 10:24:37 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.30.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:52 but I suppose the compiler trace file could give that information 10:25:00 btw, another thing to take care for making packaging "just work". Proxy support. clbuild was a PITA regarding that (due to CVS, mainly) 10:25:08 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:25:15 I'd like if there was a manual section about the compiler trace file 10:25:43 and if people like nikodemus generally write up some information how they hack on specific parts on SBCL 10:26:26 unicode [~user@95.214.90.82] has joined #lisp 10:27:55 tcr: if you see commit that you think would make a good example (ie. what was the hack-method that produced this?), i can try to write something up 10:28:07 i'm not the right person for trace-file, though 10:28:24 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 10:28:44 would have been cool if you were at vienna too 10:28:49 <_rata_> good night.. i go to bed 10:29:07 nikodemus: thank you very much for taking up the slack 10:29:56 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-pqnjacxiyxiazmxj] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:30:07 we'll see how long i can keep this rate up... 10:33:18 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has joined #lisp 10:33:18 nikodemus: 1.0.36.5 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/520366 10:36:48 hm actually I think I understand that now thinking through it :-) 10:37:51 thought how did you come up with that the transform is fired too early? 10:38:19 experience :) 10:39:24 generally speaking when a transform does a bad job because it doesn't have enough type information -- which it looks like it should have -- it is because it fires too early 10:39:37 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-080.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:39 studying IR1-PHASES and it's callees will help 10:40:42 sim2409_ [~sim2409@109.250.247.245] has joined #lisp 10:42:41 When looking at xref stuff, I noticed that there are &optional-processor which end up being :deleted even though xref is supposed to run very early on the IR 10:43:15 though there are many calls to compile-component, some which do some stuff upfront 10:44:08 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.90.82] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:44:21 unicode [~user@95.214.90.82] has joined #lisp 10:48:26 cTaPuK [~ip@87.110.192.107] has joined #lisp 10:49:13 scythe` [scythe@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:26 the contents of my other address register are the contents of the decrement register 10:49:29 -!- scythe` [scythe@anapnea.net] has left #lisp 10:52:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 10:53:44 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:54:18 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:59 -!- spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fbodyzcftkogecal] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:57:29 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:30 -!- sim2409_ [~sim2409@109.250.247.245] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:58:32 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:00:16 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:26 sysop_fb [~bleh@80.255.39.36] has joined #lisp 11:02:54 Hah, someone just came to my blog by searching for '"common lisp" -xah -newlisp -harrop -clojure -ruby' 11:06:43 -!- pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:27 rsynnott: that'll be the xachbot doing its crawl for his soon to be announced Woocle/Cling product... 11:08:01 hah 11:11:30 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-122-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:11:37 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-214-151.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:17:51 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:44 myu2 [~myu2@KD114020024065.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:22:41 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-131-207.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:05 -!- myu2 [~myu2@KD114020024065.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:51 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfd069.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 11:26:17 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:53 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:12 I am not a bot! 11:32:06 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 11:32:37 but you apparently have an army of bot minions! 11:33:19 myu2 [~myu2@KD124211006192.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:33:34 I prefer the term "electronic co-prosperity partners" 11:34:53 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:37 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:38:15 -!- myu2 [~myu2@KD124211006192.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:20 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:42:30 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 11:43:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:36 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.153.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:46:22 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:04 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:49:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:49:41 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:23 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:51:01 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44a858.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:57:49 Xach: obviously, you are ideologically well-prepared for the robot apocalypse 11:58:28 my hope is that our electronically composed overlords will not notice the slight sarcasm there. 11:58:37 (otherwise, you're toast) 12:01:12 pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:20 Any cl-opengl users around? gl:get-uniform-location is returning -1 when it really shouldn't, and no error appears to be set. 12:08:25 kwinz3 [kwinz@212095023236.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 12:08:38 mega1 [~quassel@3e44a858.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:12:12 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-57-178.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:12:19 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 hi Athas! 12:13:30 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.163.52.161] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:13:44 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-65-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:10 -!- cTaPuK [~ip@87.110.192.107] has quit [] 12:28:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:29:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:30:01 fiveop [~fiveop@g229179099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:33:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:35:32 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-242-15.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:16 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:40:16 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:41:46 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-108-67.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:42:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:15 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:42:47 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:46:31 Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.148] has joined #lisp 12:49:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:38 -!- tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:21 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 13:00:09 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uycuglhkvtxkmwls] has left #lisp 13:01:50 jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:50 -!- jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:01:50 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:03:11 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:05:04 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-108-67.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:07:56 -!- pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:38 pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:17 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:11 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:33 rodi [~rodi@pool-98-117-41-142.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:27 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 13:19:32 -!- rodi [~rodi@pool-98-117-41-142.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:22:33 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:23:43 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:25:09 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:25:14 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:26:30 electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:33 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:38:01 goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:52 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:39:14 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:49 HG` [~HG@85.8.72.203] has joined #lisp 13:40:15 -!- electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 13:40:37 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:19 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:39 plage [~user@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 13:45:43 Good afternoon! 13:47:50 Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when setting fdefinition of 13:47:52 CLASS. 13:47:59 why does that happen? 13:48:32 clhs class 13:48:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_class.htm 13:48:34 Harag: because of the restrictions outlined in 11.1.2.1.2 13:48:47 Harag: SHADOW is your friend in situations like that 13:49:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:02 xach: is it saying the class already exists? 13:51:24 Harag: the error message means you have done something forbidden by 11.1.2.1.2 13:51:41 http://l1sp.org/cl/11.1.2.1.2 13:51:50 11.1.2.1.2 Constraints on the COMMON-LISP Package for Conforming Programs 13:53:34 thats a long list ...lol 13:53:35 tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:44 http://regex.pl/pub/haxx5r.png 13:53:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:58 So, my mapcar just returns the first list element. 13:54:09 (There's three of them) 13:54:22 tass: Paste code as text to paste.lisp.org 13:54:28 tass: A screenshot is foolish. 13:54:28 exceptions: http://l1sp.org/cl/11.1.2.1.2.1 13:55:31 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 pmd: do any apply in Harag's case? 13:56:19 it seems so. defining function class does not violate because common lisp doesn't have it defined as a special operator, macro or function 13:56:23 tass: especially with such unreadable font 13:56:56 ok I found it i foolishly tried to name slot class 13:57:09 pmd: a global definition of CLASS as a function is still a violation 13:57:11 pmd: But you are only allowed to define it as a function lexically. 13:57:36 Harag: not foolish. that's a fine name for a slot. 13:57:41 Xach: correct 13:57:47 Krystof: correct 13:57:53 http://lisp.pastebin.com/c1mCaK7V 13:58:14 Then. 13:58:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:58 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@212095023236.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59:22 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066163.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 13:59:28 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:59:39 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:39 -!- sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:09 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:00:31 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:41 well it seems to be ok to name the slot "class" as long as the accessor is not named "class" 14:01:59 Harag: it helps to be precise: the accessor should not be named CL:CLASS 14:02:11 Harag: but it could be named HARAG-APP:CLASS with no conflicts 14:02:26 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:34 SHADOW can help you distinguish HARAG-APP:CLASS from CL:CLASS 14:02:50 i.e. (defclass #:harag-app (:use #cl) (:shadow #:class)) 14:02:52 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 14:03:29 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:30 aaah 14:03:59 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:06 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 14:04:32 No idea why mapcar fails? 14:04:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:31 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 14:06:21 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066163.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:13 tass: I don't even see a reference to mapcar. And please use lisppaste. 14:08:16 tass: Oh, found it. 14:09:38 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:09:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:10:02 how can you be sure that hit-list contains three elements? 14:10:13 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:27 With the debug print 14:10:37 ;; (print hit-list) 14:10:43 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:01 I un-comment that, run it, and yes, indeed three elements. 14:11:36 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:12:34 i'd use ASSERT for that 14:12:47 tass: reduce your problem to a smaller case. 14:13:13 I've tried commenting out the regexes and replacing them with nil, same problem. 14:13:51 A small self-contained test case that shows how reality differs from your expectations will make it possible for others to help you. 14:14:11 At least, use BREAK instead of PRINT. It'll let you inspect the list in SLIME. 14:18:03 I can't seem to find any nil's that would break the loop 14:18:37 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.28.101] has left #lisp 14:19:03 what do you mean? how do you think mapcar works? 14:19:15 I give it a function, and then a list 14:19:36 Then it applies the function to each element in the list until reaching nil/end of list, and returns a list with the results. 14:20:05 That's how it ought to work, AFAIK. 14:20:09 So, why are you looking for a NIL in the printed representation of the list? 14:20:46 Suppose it could have snuck in there. 14:21:05 But no, it is indeed three elements in that list. 14:21:29 really? Why don't you paste the list? 14:21:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 Err, suppose I could do that. 14:22:13 and you don't have FINISH-OUTPUT after the PRINT call 14:22:25 or call LENGTH on it. I don't think you understand cons lists right. 14:22:32 which might or might not be an issue 14:22:41 What's the length of '(nil nil)? 14:22:52 print is not an issue, print is just for debug. 14:22:53 or '((a b c)) 14:23:07 0, 1, 2? 14:23:08 tass: might as well debug right if you're going to do it. 14:24:23 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:24:37 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-128.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:10 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:31 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066165.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 -!- Tonijz [~Tonijz@85.254.194.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:27:19 http://pastebin.com/h4Fmk2AQ 14:27:23 Harag [~Harag@41.56.28.101] has joined #lisp 14:27:47 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:57 That's the list as returned by (print hit-list) 14:32:52 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:14 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 14:39:46 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:48 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:20 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 14:40:33 tass: there's exactly one string in that list. 14:41:11 Yeah, seems a bug snuck into my regex. 14:41:14 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:41:26 Sorry about that, and nevermind me. 14:41:52 Have you tried using BREAK instead of PRINT? 14:42:32 I don't quite understand how break works. 14:44:21 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:42 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:47:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:48:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cjpzfjsslfgosydf] has joined #lisp 14:50:31 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:59 amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 14:51:12 is there a way to do multiline strings for clisp formats w/o doing it all in one line with ~%'s 14:51:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:51:53 coming from python I was hoping there would be something similar to the """strings""" 14:51:57 goosemo: just do it. 14:52:01 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066165.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:27 Regular string syntax supports multiline strings. 14:52:30 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:18 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:28 ha 14:54:32 nice 14:54:47 I mean its a bit weird looking still, but thats my bits 14:54:50 thanks 14:55:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 14:56:13 goosemo: with format, you can precede a linebreak with ~ to make subsequent space not part of the output 14:56:22 that's helpful for aligning indentation 14:56:30 (format t "foo bar ~%~ 14:56:38 baz") ; or however that lines up 14:57:54 so instead of just not using ~% at the end and doing a carriage return, use ~%~ and then i can indent it pretty like? 14:57:57 also neat 14:59:33 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59:55 or use the tilde trick to align everything to column 0, after a newline. 15:01:55 Blkt [~user@93-33-138-101.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:03:05 Xach, "~%~\n" can be abbreviated to "~@\n" 15:03:44 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:13 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:27 Adlai: thanks 15:05:07 Xach: spruced up the blog a bit and some new posts :) http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com 15:05:15 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:40 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:07:41 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 15:10:13 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:10:18 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:16:26 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16:26 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:17:31 -!- pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:34 pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:43 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:18:52 Yay, only 30 minutes left of this boring class where the students don't even ask me any questions. I'm overpaid! 15:19:16 I guess I could write a few docstrings for SICL or something. 15:19:17 plage: what are you teaching? 15:19:35 that means either they don't know a thing, or they understand everything perfectly 15:19:36 pmd: A programming project course using Lisp. 15:20:07 stassats: I have the impression that it oscillates between the two. 15:20:55 I wrote a primitive but functional accounting system using CLIM, and that they are going to improve in various ways. It has a total of 400 lines of code :) 15:21:16 (including the complete GUI) 15:22:33 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:50 pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:51 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:26:07 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cjpzfjsslfgosydf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:26:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:21 Is Starbuck using Lisp? http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Nobulation-Fail.aspx 15:27:10 -!- tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:47 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:26 pjb: don't C programs output "(null)" when given NULL pointer? 15:30:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:08 glibc does something like that, but I don't remember if it's exactly "(null)". 15:30:16 Anyways, one may dream! :-) 15:30:45 one cannot take over the world by just dreaming 15:30:50 must write lots of codez 15:30:59 Sure. 15:31:06 minion: chant 15:31:06 MORE CORRECLTY 15:31:17 Or write code writing lot of code! :-) 15:31:48 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:32:06 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:38 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:33:48 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:49 Gah, I can't remember the name of the CLIM pane that gives mouse information. 15:35:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: This VM is going down.] 15:35:29 clim pane 15:35:30 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/29-2.html#_1585 15:36:18 pointer-documentation-pane 15:36:25 Thanks! 15:36:39 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-138-101.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:58 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:29 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:59 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has joined #lisp 15:45:32 http://83.133.127.32:8904/ ;) 15:45:46 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:46 what's there? 15:46:13 ups wrong channel, its an online stream (breakbeats) 15:46:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has left #lisp 15:48:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:47 -!- plage [~user@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has left #lisp 15:51:44 -!- Gizle [~chatzilla@98.85-200-216.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 15:51:46 caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:50 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:57 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 felideon` [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:53:21 sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:53:36 -!- felideon` [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:38 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:57:51 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:58:23 -!- caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 15:59:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:01:47 common lisp (break) beats perhaps? 16:01:51 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 16:03:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has joined #lisp 16:04:58 at least user-interface (playlist, automatic favorites-generation, controlling) written in (emacs)lisp ;) 16:05:59 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 16:06:40 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 -!- pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:58 BTW my rewrite of a C++ simulation (polymer-crystallisation) in CL (sbcl) is 3 times faster than the original (using lists and reduced OO) 16:07:17 pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:09:10 rhombus [~rhombus@manz-590f3efb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 I'm running Gentoo and would like to set up slime. At least, I think I would like to set up slime. What is the advantage of using slime? 16:09:56 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 16:10:19 it automates many tasks 16:11:00 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:04 rhombus: it reduces the need to keep unimportant details in your head 16:11:12 making more room for important details 16:11:27 I was going to use it because the Common Lisp book I am reading specifies it 16:11:33 rhombus: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ 16:12:29 marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.12.36] has joined #lisp 16:13:45 rhombus: it really is easy to install (just follow the instructions), you will like it. (auto-completion, argument-listing, error-navigation, ....) 16:13:51 -!- skv [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:14:09 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 16:14:24 trebor_dki: thanks for this... I was having trouble figuring out how to get it to work, but that's what I get for looking in the wiki for instructions 16:15:58 wow. that init was hot. 16:16:05 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:13 It says SLIME 2008-07-27 -- is that current? 16:17:19 seems old. 16:17:21 rhombus: it is old 16:17:33 I'm using the stable Gentoo ebuild 16:18:35 marcelinollan [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:35 -!- pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:25 pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.12.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:31 -!- pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:27 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.143.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:22:28 pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:59 -!- marcelinollan [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:30 rhombus: follow instructions on http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ ;) 16:24:10 maybe you install info-files of ansi-cl, too (so you do mot need to leave emacs for looking up a function) 16:25:36 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:11 xinming [~hyy@218.73.143.25] has joined #lisp 16:26:49 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-179-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:52 http://www.phys.au.dk/~harder/dpans.html 16:28:17 syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:31 -!- pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:08 so is emacs (and family) the prevaling editor for lisps? 16:29:31 goosemo: yes. 16:30:45 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:46 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:32:43 -!- splittist [~5503b42f@gateway/web/freenode/x-nbwfrcktxmidxvca] has quit [] 16:33:40 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:34:01 morning everyone 16:34:50 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:38:56 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 Does anybody know what this is http://www.amazon.com/Common-Lisp-programming-Programming-Specification/dp/6130295774/ref=pd_ts_b_6?ie=UTF8&s=books 16:40:02 gigamonkey: i suspect a wikipedia retread, based on the editors' other titles 16:40:10 Zooming in on the cover seems to confirm that. 16:40:25 "High Quality Content by Wikipedia Articles" 16:40:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-08-17/News_and_notes 16:40:39 "Alphascript Publishing sells free articles as expensive books" 16:40:48 You can just smell the quality oozing from that little blurb. 16:41:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:41:36 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 It's the #6 Lisp book at the moment. 16:41:51 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 -!- pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:17 pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:44 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 16:45:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:52 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:03 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:49:38 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754edc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:53:16 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:53:34 lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:53:41 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:46 rswarbrick [rupert@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:55:12 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 16:55:38 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.72.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:06 -!- hlavaty [~hlavaty@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 16:57:01 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:59:16 Xach: I think it was mentioned already, perhaps you can put it somewhat higher on your priority list: linking #nnnnnn to launchpad on planet.sbcl 16:59:50 tcr: ah, i don't think that was mentioned 17:00:01 tcr: someone suggested the launchpad feed, but that feed is a little ugly 17:00:10 I think I mentioned it at least once in past :-) 17:00:17 tcr: i will look into auto-linking, that is a nice idea 17:00:44 just had difficulcy to express myself without sounding demanding 17:01:42 I must have misunderstood earlier (or forgotten) 17:01:49 Good evening! 17:03:24 qamikaz [~alper@85.100.241.8] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 What is the Common Lisp Controller? 17:05:06 Should I even be using it? 17:05:07 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 No better not 17:05:25 minion: clbuild 17:05:26 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 17:05:36 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:05:56 rhombus: It was an attempt to simplify installation of Common Lisp "systems". These days, clbuild seems to be the preferred way. 17:06:17 beach: tcr: wow, lots of horribly obsolute cruft out there 17:06:26 or obsolete, even! 17:06:42 rhombus: Yes, you need to come to #lisp to get the true story :) 17:07:53 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-81-7.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:08 common lisp controller uses clbuild. 17:08:21 ? 17:08:38 Xach: Is that recent? 17:08:40 Yes. 17:08:51 I suppose that's good news! 17:09:10 http://pvaneynd.livejournal.com/133491.html 17:10:11 frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:30 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:41 Darn, now I shall have to learn what CLC does and how it does it. 17:11:03 It was so much easier to just brush it off as creator of trouble. 17:11:08 IIANM that's only in unstable though, not in testing. 17:11:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:23 it seems pretty cool though. 17:13:50 I'm only uncertain how to use it with slime, since "clc-clbuild slime" says that I need to run as root... 17:16:14 bigjust1 [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:37 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:42 dnolen [~dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:18:04 Peter needs to come to #lisp and explain it. 17:22:03 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.153.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 17:23:29 -!- bigjust1 [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:02 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:49 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.231.230] has left #lisp 17:24:58 Hmm, writing a web-based information system seems to be easy but tedious. 17:25:50 I am essentially creating a CLIM-like web interface in order to make things more modular. A web backend for CLIM would be even better. 17:27:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:27:58 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:28:03 sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 17:31:35 Either way, the result is lightning fast, and the system is very easy to extend now that I have the basic functionality. 17:33:14 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:47 beach: a web backend for CLIM would be interesting, but rather tricky 17:33:55 I suppose you could use HTTP push... 17:34:09 Krystof: seems to disagree that it would be tricky. 17:34:30 getting feedback from app to UI instantly would be the problem 17:34:38 rsynnott: As I understand, he thinks a modest amount of JavaScript code would be adequate. 17:34:43 server-to-client push is still a nasty hacky thing 17:34:55 though you could fake it with polling, especially if you weren't expecting many users 17:35:12 rsynnott: I am willing to believe you. I am unfortunately very ignorant when it comes to web programming. 17:35:13 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:35:44 Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has joined #lisp 17:35:50 ha, I think screen scraping isn't what they had in mind when they made "accessibility" a requirement for government websites, but those annotated links certainly help a lot. 17:36:19 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:36:20 -!- pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:06 Must be the first time I'm really using Plexippus. Good thing I wrote it. 17:37:22 pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 heh! 17:37:49 araujo_ [~araujo@61.173.97.222] has joined #lisp 17:38:11 rsynnott: polling, assuming a local server -- but also compiling various callbacks to javascript and executing them directly on the client 17:38:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:32 it's still tricky and a lot of work, but potentially interesting 17:38:38 -!- araujo_ [~araujo@61.173.97.222] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:14 -!- caljunior [~user@82-168-237-95.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:18 Krystof: Sounds like a student project would be the first thing to suggest, just in order to have *them* figure out what the difficulties are. 17:39:43 Krystof: ah, yep; deciding WHICH callbacks to compile could get interesting :) 17:39:44 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:39:57 could definitely be a fun project, though, yes 17:41:10 Peter Karp's web-based CLIM backend might be something to look into, but he uses GIFs as I recall to get the graphics. 17:41:59 It'd be better with HTTP push, of course 17:42:02 clapautius [~me@188.26.53.168] has joined #lisp 17:42:13 milanj [~milan@91.150.119.134] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 I seem to remember reading that someone had implemented that for one of the lisp webservers, actually 17:42:24 skv [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 17:42:41 *beach* doesn't know what HTTP push means :( 17:42:44 it wouldn't be terribly efficient in a thread-per-client server, but if you didn't need many users it wouldn't need to be 17:42:48 beach: there are no students here who could even begin to tackle that. By all means, do suggest it to your students 17:43:05 beach: a mechanism by which the server can send the client a message immediately 17:43:16 normally done with a nasty technique called long polling 17:43:29 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:31 rsynnott: without the client making a request? 17:43:39 where the client opens a connection, and the server holds onto that connection and only sends something back on it when it has something for the client 17:43:49 I see. 17:43:57 it can work reasonably well 17:44:09 but writing a server which does it properly is fiddly 17:44:24 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:44:36 I take it that means that hunchentoot doesn't make that easy. 17:44:50 (if you were willing to restrict yourself to ABCL, you could use Jetty's cometd thing) 17:45:10 beach: I've only actually ever tried in Erlang 17:45:11 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-pjisocbtrdhhsvmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:45:32 it's probably doable easily enough in hunchentoot if you're not too worried about supporting lots of users 17:45:41 if you ARE, then thread-per-client model is unsuitable 17:46:31 Simplest case would be for the connection handler on the comet/http-push URL to just wait for another thread to tell it something, then send that back 17:46:45 Crap, I think this all means we really *need* a JavaScript backend for CLIM. 17:46:57 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:48:07 in practice, the polling approach would be simpler, and less fragile, and offer only slightly less good user experience 17:48:54 beach: alternatively, there's this: http://orbited.org/ 17:49:21 (twisted python thingy that provides a socket proxy over HTTP) 17:50:11 so you can offload the unpleasant HTTP push work, at the cost of some efficiency 17:51:51 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:52:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:21 demmeln [~Adium@188.110.161.201] has joined #lisp 17:54:48 rsynnott: I believe you. I might have some time in the future to figure that stuff out. Right now my priority is to write an information system that my colleagues can use. Thanks anyway! 17:55:05 -!- pmd` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:34 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:37 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:06 pmd`` [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:38 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:01:00 anyone have an ordered set / tree data structure handy? where you can do a fast lookup on "the first element that is #'< than X" for example 18:01:01 -!- pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-179-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:04:16 jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has joined #lisp 18:04:21 minion: trees 18:04:22 trees: TREES is a Library which provides binary trees of several flavors, all exposed through a uniform CLOS interface. http://www.cliki.net/trees 18:04:45 I think fset is also supposed to be something like that, but it's rather bizarre. 18:05:36 (Fare recently blogged about his attempt to build a purely functional thing less wild than fset, but I haven't checked it out.) 18:08:21 -!- rhombus [~rhombus@manz-590f3efb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3636, sources date: 20090924, built on: 2010-01-04 20:40:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:08:54 daniel [~daniel@p5082D591.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:10:08 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 18:10:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:45 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 18:12:25 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082FBA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:28 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 18:13:36 slyrus__ [~slyrus@38.112.6.110] has joined #lisp 18:13:37 -!- pmd`` is now known as pmd 18:15:10 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:15:39 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066157.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 18:19:22 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:14 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@38.112.6.110] has left #lisp 18:22:20 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-17-19.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:24:14 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:51 dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 18:27:17 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:28:36 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:41 prxq [~mommer@g226207208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 hi 18:33:14 -!- sysop_fb 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[~ephcon@student167-11.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:42:44 pjb [~t@214.Red-88-30-99.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:10 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-131.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:49:04 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:46 Blkt [~user@93-33-143-165.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:50:47 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 18:52:28 -!- nickjd [~76ec66e2@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkmkydojpttziyvi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:07 -!- pmd [~user@cpe-173-171-87-121.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:59:03 caljunior [~user@82-168-237-95.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 18:59:15 hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-44-179.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 19:00:46 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student167-11.hampshire.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:29 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.192] has joined #lisp 19:04:26 -!- caljunior [~user@82-168-237-95.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:05:28 I'm experimenting with free text search in perec using postgresql built in features 19:06:47 I go through each object in the database and merge all text slot values 19:07:39 create a table with the oid and the merged text converted by to_tsvector 19:07:59 then I also have a dictionary of all words found in all text in the db 19:08:12 in a separate table 19:09:44 do you know the trigram idea? 19:11:40 I'm wondering if that is worth anything, because the dictionary is probably small enough to fit in the memory 19:14:16 -!- lambda_nil [~lambda_ni@81.Red-88-2-164.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:06 fujihc [~fujihc@151.57.133.51] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 -!- fujihc [~fujihc@151.57.133.51] has left #lisp 19:16:32 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 19:17:48 -!- demmeln [~Adium@188.110.161.201] has left #lisp 19:18:02 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:18:43 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:17 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 19:27:29 Flaoww [~muhammmed@109.94.28.28] has joined #lisp 19:31:53 puchacz [~chatzilla@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:05 -!- puchacz [~chatzilla@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 19:34:30 levente_meszaros: can you get into contact with hlavaty on this? 19:34:49 We have such a thing already, so it might make sense to merge the two codebases. 19:35:41 oh, really? 19:36:15 We aren't using trigrams though, because my expectation is that a DB with trigrams would be too large for us. 19:36:43 actually you don't need to create a table with the trigrams in it 19:36:48 just a dictionary table 19:36:54 with the words in it 19:37:01 and a special trigram based index 19:37:26 The history is that itze wrote a native lisp implementation of lispene years ago called lispene (that was before montezuma existed). The new thing is a simplified version of that old lispene API, now built on perec. 19:37:36 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:14 hmm, that sounds interesting 19:38:17 uhm, "implementation of lucene" I mean 19:39:05 do you plan to make that publicly available? 19:39:06 I don't recall the exact numbers, but the largest of our lispene indexes (in native lucene format) is around 200-300 MB. Putting that into perec gave us something in the GB area, which is a hefty increase. 19:40:13 The advantage of having the search index covered by the same transaction that sets up the data is important enough to not worry too much about the size on disk though. (for this project, anyway) 19:40:49 a few GBytes is not much nowadays 19:41:13 levente_meszaros: I think we can do that, yes. It's only 500 lines or so. Especially if you publish your attempt, a good case can be made for a merger of ideas if not even code. 19:41:51 mine is around 100 LOC, and I planned to put this into perec 19:42:15 currently there's a rebuild-text-search-index 19:42:36 which just walks the model and builds the index from the text all around 19:42:47 and then you have (def (function e) text-search-dictionary (text &key limit threshold) 19:42:52 and (def (function e) text-search-instances (text &key limit threshold) 19:43:18 both returns an ordered list along with the scores 19:43:59 mine dictionary is around 30,000 words 19:44:15 the number indexed objects is around 100,000 19:44:38 a query takes 10-50 ms 19:45:00 returning the lazy objects which in turn can be automatically shown by the metagui 19:45:39 -!- Flaoww [~muhammmed@109.94.28.28] has quit [Quit: Versalend] 19:46:43 Flaoww [~muhammmed@109.94.28.28] has joined #lisp 19:46:52 -!- Flaoww [~muhammmed@109.94.28.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:25 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066157.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:35 you can take a look at it http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.perec;a=shortlog 19:47:51 hrm i am too scared of race conditions to write my code :/ 19:48:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:49:41 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 19:51:19 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:20 *hefner* kicks ECL as hard as possible 19:54:34 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 19:55:24 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:08 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:08 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 19:56:19 *levente_meszaros* needs to think more on how to use trigrams and tsvectors 19:56:27 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:57:18 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.254] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-19-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:17 lichtblau, do you encode some information of the object's type, so that you can refer to that in the text search? 20:02:06 e.g. turn the class names on the object's class precedence list into a list of localized names and include that in the object's merged text slots? 20:02:18 then one could search for: person john 20:02:22 lichtblau pasted "API example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96301 20:02:54 stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-143-165.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:03:15 I don't think we do that, no. 20:03:23 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.24] has joined #lisp 20:04:07 lichtblau, levente_meszaros: How well does perec integrate with stored procedures? 20:04:25 -!- frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:04:25 p_l, rdbms:execute? 20:04:45 it sits on top of an RDBMS 20:04:55 good 20:05:18 *p_l* has been toying with making his next db design reliant mostly on stored procedures 20:05:21 lichtblau, does that API maps down to persistent instances? 20:05:26 levente_meszaros: http://knowledgetools.de/tmp/temporaer/classes.lisp 20:05:28 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:45 not /blubba/? 20:06:16 I can't find the test cases at the moment, so the lisppaste will have to do. I'm pretty certain we have more comprehensive tests somewhere though. 20:06:24 frontiers [~frontiers@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:33 p_l, why not provide a LISP subset -> stored procedure compiler within perec? 20:07:02 lichtblau, nice, and how fast is that when querying? 20:07:24 levente_meszaros: I was actually considering writing a PL/PgSQL generator from Lisp DSL, which could be then integrated into whatever library you want 20:07:46 levente_meszaros: including generation of wrapper functions on lisp side 20:07:52 p_l, could you please add that to hu.dwim.rdbms? :-) 20:08:10 levente_meszaros: I'll ask itze on monday about benchmarks. I don't recall the numbers, but it was fast enough subjectively that we agreed on using it. 20:08:17 there's already syntax AST for a lot sql 20:08:41 levente_meszaros: After I get further along with lispy 20:08:47 -!- milanj [~milan@91.150.119.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:08:59 lichtblau, your solution is somewhat higher level then mine 20:09:26 actually mine does work only with postgres, but comes for free for any project using perec 20:09:47 if you don't mind building the index offline time to time 20:10:23 right. we need to be able to use the same API on Oracle. 20:10:54 lichtblau, I think I would not include your stuff in perec, because it is rather using the library than extending it 20:11:09 we have a separate project for such reusable model fragments 20:11:16 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@142.244.153.17] has joined #lisp 20:11:24 I agree. (which project is that?) 20:11:29 but my version strictly depends on the meta model of perec 20:11:38 that is called hu.dwim.model 20:12:25 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:23 milanj [~milan@93.86.53.226] has joined #lisp 20:14:14 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 I don't think we're using hu.dwim.model. A self-contained project hu.dwim.lispene might be best. 20:16:21 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:18:18 there are multiple systems on that project and it might be split into even more as needed 20:18:46 hefnr [~root@ppp-58-11-44-179.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 btw, this search stuff is not that important for us, just a side project at the moment 20:22:20 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-11-44-179.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.93.1] 20:25:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.24] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:27:50 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-otaztpkqpumxfgcj] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 -!- qamikaz [~alper@85.100.241.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:20 hello 20:37:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:21 hi felideon 20:37:29 fe[nl]ix, i mean :-) 20:37:38 hello prxq 20:38:26 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 20:38:35 <_rata_> hello 20:38:48 marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.175] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 hello prxq :P 20:46:55 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:58 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:47:42 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:56 -!- unicode_ [~user@95.214.14.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:53 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:54:51 is there something like tagbody that returns its last value? 20:55:13 i mean, in the standard 20:58:57 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 21:00:11 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-vxmezxirdxgsmkfm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:24 what last value? 21:00:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:52 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:24 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:01:42 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:32 jdz: i'm looking for progn with thags, basically 21:02:40 tags, actually 21:02:55 yes, but what is the "last value"? 21:03:11 the value of the last form. 21:03:19 (progn 1 2 3) => 3 21:03:27 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:43 prxq: put all forms in (setq result ...) :/ 21:04:01 well, not all 21:04:04 prxq: how would you distinguish a tag from a variable used as return value? 21:04:57 kpreid: oh I though this lisp gizmo had ai to figure something like that out... 21:05:12 well, that explains why there is no such thing 21:05:22 ok thanks. 21:05:36 well, you could use (identity myretval) or declare that the last thing in the form is the return value, never a tag 21:05:45 but ... just use (return whatever) and you're done. 21:05:56 block + tagbody + return.. (or prog + return if you want nil block + let, prog* + return for nil block + let*) 21:06:08 oh, tagbody doesn't do implicit blocks 21:06:16 prog, then 21:06:16 prog! 21:06:33 drewc: was that an exclamation, or a scheme construct? 21:06:43 I knew drewc would wake up :) 21:06:43 me, scheme? 21:06:58 "prog-bang" is pretty accurate description of what is happening in my code 21:07:08 my PROGRAM FEATURE senses were tingling :) 21:08:12 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:08 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.254] has joined #lisp 21:09:10 *prxq* decides to leave the whole thing for next week 21:09:45 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:30 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:10:52 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:12:01 (values VALUE) 21:12:24 erm, nevermind. I'm not really paying attention. 21:13:22 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-109.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226207208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:21:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:25 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:23:06 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:23:15 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:23:47 seems i, accidentally made lisp symbol-handling (as in arithmetic with symbols and lists and stuff) today... 21:24:09 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:39 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: tfb] 21:28:13 don't feel too bad.. I wrote a terrible hack today with two hairy macro-generating-macros 21:28:45 (after staying awake for 24 hours) 21:28:58 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 21:29:26 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:56 ak70 [~user@85.232.203.229] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:34:52 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:36:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:43 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 21:38:13 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:42:44 drewc: What is a node in cl-org-mode? 21:44:37 LiamH: an object in the parse tree. 21:46:02 drewc: I don't know what that is. Have an example? 21:46:12 maden [~maden@dsl-155-180.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:24 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:49 syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:23 what's the easiest, least fuss, least portable way of getting a directory listing in sbcl on linux? 21:47:40 (least portable = I don't need a framework to accomodate for every lisp known to man) 21:47:56 clhs directory 21:47:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 21:48:29 LiamH: the entire point of cl-org-mode is to take an org-mode file and turn it into objects that you can manipulate in lisp... those objects are called nodes. a block of text is a node, a heading is a node, an src_block is a node. some nodes may contain other nodes 21:49:44 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BCAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:12 adeht: thanks. 21:50:25 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:15 LiamH: or nodes are the internal representation i've chosen for org-mode 21:51:24 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:51:47 ok. perhaps dumb question: how do I make a path wild? 21:52:28 give it 5 shots of whiskey 21:52:31 "*.*" is an example of a "wild" namestring 21:53:12 (make-pathname :name :wild :type :wild) 21:53:19 for a pathname, you can have :wild (or :wild-inferiors) in a field 21:53:21 namestrings are for the weak 21:54:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:54:48 I see. "*" wasn't cutting it for some reason. I've done it explicitly with make-pathname and it's working. 21:54:49 thanks. 21:56:15 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-qijpxxaimnwguiuh] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:57:29 gruseom [~daniel@d206-75-29-17.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:19 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:55 alrighty, part Deux. how would I get the file size of a filespec? 22:00:02 pathspec, I mean 22:00:47 (with-open-file (stream file) (file-length stream)) 22:01:01 I see. so I literally have to open it. 22:01:27 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-131.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:27 you really want something like iolib 22:01:41 Shaftoe, you don't _have_ to open it 22:02:01 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.21] has joined #lisp 22:02:01 (file-length (open file :direction :probe)) 22:02:17 Adlai: ahh. that's good! 22:02:17 Adlai: won't work? 22:02:22 jdz, why not? 22:02:26 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-132.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:02:29 the file is closed before returned? 22:02:35 I don't think that matters 22:02:44 ok, i'll read file-length documentation now :) 22:03:16 well, it doesn't work 22:03:19 =) 22:03:26 yeah, I was keeping quiet about that too =) 22:03:33 it says stream closed 22:04:06 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:04:47 (sb-posix:stat-size (sb-posix:stat file)) 22:04:52 hmm, but the spec does not state that the file bust be open.. 22:05:00 the stream* 22:05:27 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:05:32 Sometimes I wish SBCL would tell me how it derived a particular type (times like right now)... 22:05:39 on the other hand, length of a non-directional stream sounds fishy 22:05:42 Shaftoe: iolib has nice directory iteration utilities and stat facility, among other things 22:05:51 that's a winner. sb-posix:stat 22:06:33 adeht: I was just trying to avoid having to get a library to do a simple directory file size tally. 22:06:36 it's really all I need to do 22:06:37 once. 22:06:38 =) 22:06:42 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:54 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 22:08:16 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:34 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:11:38 -!- ryepup1 [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 22:11:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:51 WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:17 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 22:12:44 adeht: of course, you can't find them because the documentation is totally incomplete 22:13:28 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:14:01 -!- Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:36 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 my experience is that I could and did find them 22:15:14 serichsen [~user@f049138240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:18 hi 22:15:21 users, always complaining :D 22:16:40 adeht: he's right about the file utils; I didn't document them 22:16:47 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:17:02 fe[nl]ix: sure, but you did give source code 22:17:33 and irc-based documentation is also available :) 22:17:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:20:44 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 22:21:50 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 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[~quassel@3e44a858.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:40:06 -!- skv [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:40:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:17 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8834.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:22 benny [~benny@i577A8834.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:52 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.40] has joined #lisp 22:48:29 bigjust1 [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:31 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:37 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:30 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 22:51:33 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:29 -!- clapautius [~me@188.26.53.168] has left #lisp 22:53:38 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:55:22 -!- rlonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:58:30 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:32 TR2N [email@89.180.167.168] has joined #lisp 23:00:02 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:00:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:57 so far so good 23:03:14 noam [~k4jd095b@87.70.183.61] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:19 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.40] has joined #lisp 23:06:30 this is really cool 23:06:44 free text search out of the box in perec 23:08:21 (with-transaction (text-search-instances "mésros evelopr" :threshold 0.15)) 23:08:39 and even though my family name is: mészáros 23:08:50 and I'm a "developer" in the project 23:08:57 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:09:03 it finds me correctly (and my brother too) 23:09:55 what are you cooking? next google? 23:10:30 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:48 no way :) 23:11:55 this turns out to be really useful 23:12:21 the names from the whole class precedence list is put in the index for each object (among all its string like slots) 23:12:42 so you can include the type name in the free text search 23:13:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:18:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:51 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-132.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:26:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:34 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-19-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:45 stassats: Google uses wildly different methods, due to the type of data and size of it 23:30:29 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-19-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.53.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:16 this is rather for our web based business applications 23:32:39 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:17 Constantinegggfg [uaconstant@91.202.130.222] has joined #lisp 23:39:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:34 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:47 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.175] has quit [K-Lined] 23:41:35 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:41 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:11 Tabmow 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