00:00:11 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-99-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:36 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:07 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:15 greetings all 00:04:45 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.206] has joined #lisp 00:04:45 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:51 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:24 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:20 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:21 just polling for people's experiences/opinions on the various chat/im protcols, specially semi-standard push protocols. need to hack together a web based chat thing, with the only requirement that users on the page use ajax and the recipients of the message use desktop chat clients with popup notification when there is a message. 00:07:33 xmpp is ginormous 00:08:06 and SIMPLE is supported by pidgin but has 5 rfcs for documentation and rides on the more complex SIP protocol 00:08:29 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:42 ideally, i want to use an existing and well supported server, and glue that to the web interface with my own bridge. any experiences? 00:08:45 l_n [~foo@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 00:08:50 -!- milanj [~milan@79.101.138.165] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:52 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:09:09 is there an argument to the sbcl build system that would make it output more useful information when it fails? 00:09:23 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.81.24] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:09:44 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:57 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-49-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:10:02 l_n: do what we all do and cross-test with clozure 00:10:09 s/all/i/ 00:10:39 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44b17d.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:43 i try to keep ccl and sbcl compatibility in everything i write 00:12:00 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:20:09 pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 00:25:30 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.81.24] has joined #lisp 00:26:13 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:51 dia100daly [~sdiawara@212.99.78.121] has joined #lisp 00:32:45 can one budy explain me how to use the gadget text-editor 00:33:08 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.81.24] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:33:13 how to add the value 00:34:01 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:34:44 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:00 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:36 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.153.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: asdf] 00:40:48 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-8433.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:44:15 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:42 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:46:54 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-vudqtnhgxoxaktbk] has joined #lisp 00:47:13 -!- dia100daly [~sdiawara@212.99.78.121] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:34 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-27-43-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 00:50:51 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.249.103] has joined #lisp 00:56:20 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-6787.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 00:58:39 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:07 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-176-145.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:06:56 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-112-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:31 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:01 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:51 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:15:15 -!- gruseom [~daniel@d206-75-29-17.abhsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 01:16:34 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:30 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 -!- skeptomai [~cb@67.40.185.246] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:24:47 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-099-115-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:03 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:26 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-099-115-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 01:30:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:51 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 01:36:09 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:19 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:36:42 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:41 catofzen [~marvin@ip-69-27-56-216.slm.blueriver.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:28 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 01:45:59 fusss: irc? 01:47:29 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:47:29 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:50:57 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:53:23 -!- pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has quit [Quit: a start-up makes you barf upfront] 01:53:52 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-6787.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:59 nyef [~user@96.32.242.15] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 Hello all. 01:55:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:55:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CDD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:06 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:57:50 *nyef* notes that not being able to start X because ones nvidia driver install is too old, and not being able to update nvidia drivers because ones entire system is screwed is not fun. 01:58:16 :/ 01:58:38 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 01:58:44 <_rata_> hello nyef 02:00:01 drewc: push notification, mate 02:00:09 think sales reps and support staff 02:01:08 psyllo [~ben@c-98-234-150-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:18 i wanna route messages to the right person to answer it during business hours, or push them to the log for later handling 02:01:28 irc? 02:01:31 so far xmpp is our choice, building jabberd 02:02:09 drewc: brb, we will talk after short meeting 02:02:12 *drewc* has used IRC for exactly that, with a bitlbee front end to allow clients to connect from multiple IM applications 02:02:19 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:29 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:02:47 -!- enthymene is now known as Pyro` 02:02:53 -!- Pyro` is now known as ThePyro 02:03:09 Yeah, IRC sounds like the protocol to use. And, as a bonus, your sales staff can hang out on EFnet as well! 02:03:11 -!- ThePyro is now known as enthymene 02:03:42 -!- catofzen [~marvin@ip-69-27-56-216.slm.blueriver.net] has left #lisp 02:04:16 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:42 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:45 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.6] has quit [Quit: ] 02:07:46 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:08:20 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 02:09:54 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 02:13:15 drewc: +1 on bitlbee 02:14:05 drewc: does it handle the creation of multiple channels per user? 02:14:23 i don't want one channel where everybody talks to everybody else 02:14:48 fusss: channels are separate from users. OTOH, I think setting up ejabberd would be easier than setting up irc server 02:14:57 users shouldn't see each other, and admins should see only "assigned" users; where assignment is done by my algorithm 02:15:55 (you can always go with a custom solution as well) 02:16:57 re ejabberd, i prefer the other xmpp server written in lua 02:17:28 p_l: yeah, we can cut a check for one of those applets, but i am dying to hack after a month of "modeling" and RSI 02:18:21 fusss: you can always make a quick hack in JS (with parenscript, maybe?) that would poll the server (which could be in Lisp, erlang, whatever) that would bridge to the rest of the system 02:19:27 You could also use the IRC -protocol-, but ignore most of the server semantics. 02:20:00 it's the desktop push that's tricky; popup notification at the right rep's desk. it's easier for me to install pidgin on their machines, instead of making them stare at a browser window 02:20:01 fusss: well, the intention is to throw a cl-irc proxy in the middle that picks up whatever is happening in the bitlbee or irc server and just throws it to an irc server that your users connect to, however you want it to. 02:20:31 pidgin works quite well with IRC 02:20:36 drewc: got it. and just built bitlbee. time to readup and brainstorm. 02:23:36 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:54 -!- locci [~nes@93.37.200.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:34 bobrown [~user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:06 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:33:25 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:35 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:46 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:51:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:52:18 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:00 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:09 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:59 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:55:02 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 have bitlbee up and running 03:02:29 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:42 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 03:03:25 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03:36 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 gws [~gavin@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:36 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:07:29 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:06 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:37 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:52 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:14:38 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:53 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:16:53 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 03:20:05 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:22:49 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-49-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:23:06 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:26:24 maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 03:27:07 hi. 03:28:13 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:29:36 <_rata_> hi 03:30:10 just started lisp earlier today. any good book to suggest? 03:30:50 practical common lisp 03:30:57 how recent is that? 03:31:07 3 months old 03:31:14 i looked it up at my college's library but all i found was a 1972 release of a very short book. 03:31:16 oh nice 03:31:20 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:48 also, lisp in small pieces; paradigms in artificial intelligence programming 03:32:06 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: reboots] 03:32:14 i'll look those up 03:32:38 valentingolev [~valentin@178.176.6.77] has joined #lisp 03:32:46 for beginners http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/%7Eshapiro/Commonlisp/ 03:32:56 minion: tell maden about pcl 03:32:58 maden: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 03:33:25 another book for very beginners http://www.lispmachine.net/books/Common_Lisp_A_Gentle_Introduction_To_Symbolic_Computation.pdf 03:33:51 pdf is good 03:34:26 read little schemer :) 03:36:03 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 03:36:05 lamkins successful lisp 03:36:37 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:49 if I want to build lisp websites am I better off reading lamkins or sicp? 03:36:56 what college teach lisp as first language nowadays? 03:37:04 mit uses scheme I think 03:37:15 although there was some rumor about python 03:37:24 python is good 03:37:59 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:42 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:07 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:55 I been reading way to much cat-v.org 03:44:10 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:03 robbrit [~rob@modemcable171.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:48:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:48 does anyone know how to create an executable with sbcl? 03:50:03 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f727942.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:26 troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:29 i tried googling but everything i get is telling me either how to compile sbcl itself, or it tells me that it CAN do it but not how 03:52:21 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72e2f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:52:21 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 03:52:44 <_3b> minion: tell robbrit about creating executables 03:52:44 robbrit: please look at creating executables: Newcomers to Lisp often ask how to "create an executable" from their Lisp program. http://www.cliki.net/creating%20executables 03:53:50 _3b: thanks 03:55:06 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:22 _3b: heh so i guess the answer is i don't create an executable? 03:58:34 You -can-, it's a matter of (save-lisp-and-die :executable t), but it's still rarely what you want. 03:59:01 it's mainly for distribution purposes 03:59:17 so that people who want to run the program don't have to have lisp installed 03:59:24 Fair enough. 03:59:34 <_3b> yeah, executables work fine, if the size isn't a problem 04:00:43 I'm tired, and I've got stuff to do tomorrow, some of which might get me a working X again at some point, so I'm going to sign off now. 04:00:43 <_3b> hmm, thought that page was a bit more clear about that 04:00:47 G'night all. 04:01:02 bye 04:01:16 (Well, I'm going to -try- to sign off, not entirely certain this'll work in ERC...) 04:01:22 -!- nyef [~user@96.32.242.15] has quit [Quit: Sleep beckons.] 04:03:41 looks like it did 04:06:10 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:27 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has joined #lisp 04:08:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:18 -!- robbrit [~rob@modemcable171.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 04:09:19 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:20 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:10:01 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:15 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-111-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:15:18 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:18 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:15:18 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 04:17:16 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-84-226-54-149.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:18:10 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:18:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:24 -!- porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:34 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:18:43 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:18:57 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:22 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:33 lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-123-248.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 04:24:41 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:25:19 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:10 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:53 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.249.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:04 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:31:39 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 04:34:46 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:36:45 maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:36:46 Anyone know who's behind Montezuma (the Lucene in Common Lisp thing)? 04:37:57 Is jjwiseman lemonodor? 04:42:41 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43:28 maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 04:44:06 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@adsl-62-167-123-248.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:45:40 yeah. 04:46:05 Do you know if he's still working on it? 04:47:34 Not sure. 04:49:10 lukego [~lukegorri@178.39.18.255] has joined #lisp 04:52:25 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:52:51 minion: memo for lemonodor: Are you still working on Montezuma? 04:52:51 Remembered. I'll tell lemonodor when he/she/it next speaks. 04:52:54 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:48 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:01:10 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rabgfghnuxmfhlau] has joined #lisp 05:07:50 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:10:08 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:10:46 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 05:14:49 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:15:04 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:14 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.32.56] has joined #lisp 05:19:27 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-102.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:24:00 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:24:33 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:53 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:46 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:34:47 -!- enthymene is now known as enth|amble 05:35:13 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:39 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@178.39.18.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:38 -!- eirik [eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:51 Good morning! 05:41:30 morning 05:47:57 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:48:25 lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 05:49:02 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:10 lukego: you've seen my latest project right? 05:51:30 http://www.codequarterly.com/ 05:51:44 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 05:53:21 gigamonkey: is there a timeline for the first issue? 05:54:12 lithper2_: hard to say. 05:54:23 I'm working hard now on getting articles 05:54:49 How quickly we can get an issue out depends on how quickly that bears fruit. 05:55:43 great. 05:56:47 Best case is we put an issue out end of May/beginning of June. Then my wife and I have a baby and it's a longish quarter before the next issue comes out. 05:57:13 Or, if we miss that first window, there will be a slight baby-induced delay in the arrival of the first issue. 05:57:25 (Yes, I am insane.) 05:57:28 -!- enth|amble is now known as enthymene 05:57:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:57:48 baby is more important :) 05:59:32 Yes. 06:02:05 mega1 [~quassel@3e44b17d.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:03:18 Baby's are definitely important 06:03:25 lol babies 06:03:50 I have a couple of those 06:04:13 'morning 06:04:14 They say that can grow up to be programmers. 06:04:25 hello p_l 06:04:27 morning 06:05:53 Or, failing that, mass murderers. 06:06:04 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:06:10 Zhivago: and sometimes, both 06:06:32 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-111-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:35 Well, I don't know of any such cases. 06:07:11 I wonder if there have been any mass murderers who've hacked code 06:07:22 psyllo: based on my Coders at Work interviews, it doesn't seem to run too much in families. 06:07:53 At least among the folks I interviewed who had kids, mostly the kids weren't that interested in hacking. 06:08:02 *p_l* is actually working on a novel with one of the main characters being a programmer that ends up as self-declaimed mass murderer 06:08:03 lol. I guess you didn't interview the Unibomber 06:09:07 Though, he's a serial killer not a mass murderer... Pretty sure they're different. 06:10:10 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 06:11:01 Well, serial bomber, anyhow. 06:11:41 maybe the Unabomber did some Fortran hacking. 06:11:58 That's what drove him to kill... 06:12:22 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:13:28 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:41 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:16:51 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:15 psyllo: yes, a big bomb will make you a mass murderer, but you need to go out of your way to only kill people wearing yellow hats to be a serial killer 06:17:44 Can't you be a less discriminate serial killer? 06:17:53 sure 06:18:04 like gray or yellow hats 06:18:15 Like "kill a random person every few months"? 06:18:34 that would just be a murderer 06:18:44 No. That would be a serial murderer. 06:19:48 a serial murderer would have to kill because of something, whether they know it or not, and it is that cause that is serial, not random 06:20:06 Such as "I haven't killed anyone for a few months"? 06:20:06 so random killings is not serial, even if they're frequent, imho 06:20:41 that could be one cause 06:21:01 So, that would be "kill a random person every few months". 06:21:13 no 06:21:59 that would be "if its been too long since last killing, then kill random person" 06:22:06 subtle difference 06:22:24 you make serial killer sound like soldiers 06:22:46 Do soldiers kill random people every few months? 06:22:49 no 06:23:24 Kakama [~Loli@c-76-27-19-196.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:37 they kill people they're ordered to, or people attacking somewhere they were told to keep secret... 06:23:52 So, how do I make serial killers sound like that? 06:24:22 If, say theoretically, you were to give a 25 minute presentation on Common Lisp 06:24:28 what would you be sure to mention? 06:24:36 It's not rocket scienc. 06:24:42 Mass murder is a batch job. 06:24:45 it just sounded like an order when you said it, I tried to make it sound like a psychological investigation 06:24:48 Kakama: All the particularities. 06:24:52 Serial killing is a cronjob. 06:25:12 pookleblinky: yes, exactly 06:25:13 Kakama: Like multiple dispatch, reader programming, method combinations 06:25:36 I would hate to see a cybernetic Kyzinski. 06:25:41 Kakama: all 16 boolean functions 06:25:46 Kakama: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/features.text 06:25:54 Can you imagine a serial killer who hacks his own randomization algorithms? 06:26:14 (victim-gender-p) 06:26:22 Kakama: also, i 2nd method combinations 06:26:25 kakama: Who are you presenting it to? 06:26:29 (victim-MO-p) 06:26:46 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 06:26:48 a classroom and a teacher, the classroom full of people who do not care, the teacher full of care and knowledge 06:27:00 multiple dispatch makes my brain turn inside out 06:27:18 Screw that. 24 minutes on the power of macros. 06:27:47 kakama: What does the teacher know? 06:28:38 Good question, I don't know how much LISP specifically he knows but he knows the industry pretty well and has a hand all over the place 06:28:54 so pretty much this isn't one of those "I can totally bullshit most of this" presentations 06:30:18 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:33:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44b17d.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:36:09 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:36:57 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:05 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:40:04 -!- rme [rme@clozure-75CCF2C1.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:40:04 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-177.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:40:50 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:17 -!- kephas is now known as nowhere_man 06:41:46 beach: closures are not in your features' list 06:42:04 nowhere_man: I'll add that. Thanks! 06:42:34 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:42:42 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:47 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:43:13 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 06:43:30 Question about generic functions: I know that all methods of a gf must have the same arity, but is that a principled restriction, or is it just to make implementors' lives easier? 06:45:00 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:02 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:50:19 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:53:25 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:34 jcowan: well it makes no sense to specialize on &rest lists as far as I know unless you wanted to somehow specialize on the contents of an &rest list (could be quite expensive to ensure the list matches the specializer if its big...), which leaves only &optional and &key arguments. 06:54:58 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:55:09 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:55:30 nixeagle: Not what I meant. IOW, if it were allowed for some methods to have 2 args and others 3, then whenever you called the gf with 2 args, the 3-arg methods would be ignored, and vice versa. 06:55:31 but the thing is using the MOP you can write a discriminating function that does whatever you want. 06:55:33 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:37 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:56:18 jcowan: or in otherwords specializing on an &optional or &key argument? 06:56:44 nixeagle: no, variable arity, IIUC 06:57:09 In a sense, yes. That is, the gf would have to have two required args and one optional. 06:57:28 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:42 but the 3-args method would have 3 required arguments, right? 06:57:49 jcowan: then write your own discriminating function that takes the optional parameter into account. 06:59:31 jcowan: http://www.alu.org/mop/dictionary.html#compute-discriminating-function There is really nothing about generic function _dispatch_ you cannot control. 07:00:40 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:57 Now actually writing your own specializer... that is another story. sb-pcl:make-method-specializers-form is of great help, but that is not on every lisp implementation, so its far from portable. 07:01:15 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:16 *jcowan* nods. 07:02:58 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.223.61] has left #lisp 07:03:01 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 07:03:20 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:03:31 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:36 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:06:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:08:57 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 07:09:01 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:51 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:09:53 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:33 attila_lendvai: do you know of a good partial evaluator that might convert "(funcall (lambda () 1))" to "1" at the source leve? 07:13:37 level* 07:14:04 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:14:50 dmiles_afk, (hu.dwim.asdf::develop-system :hu.dwim.partial-eval) then (partial-eval '(funcall (lambda () 1))) => 1 07:15:39 nicdev [~nicdev@st401-108.subnet-249.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 07:15:45 it requires quite a bit of kludgery to get to the source of the functions, so it's mostly sbcl only currently 07:16:23 it wilkl be a good start for me 07:16:32 it needs to find the source locations from swank, then read and walk the cource... but works fine on sbcl 07:17:19 develop-system is optional, it just turns of debugging, loads the test system of the pe and sets *package* 07:17:28 i am going to try to adapt it to ABCL 07:17:54 (in the precompiler phase) 07:18:36 well actualyl after some compiler macros are done expanding .. doing to thrrow the formas at it and let it have a whack 07:19:01 dmiles_afk, this pe is heavy on generic functions, uses contextl 07:19:26 hrrm ABCL gotten little better at generic functions.. i guess it will be a wild ride 07:20:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:20:42 so i better make sure http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/contextl.html works at least first? 07:21:29 Ogedei [~user@e178216207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:06 ABCL i guess does eveythiong but define method compbionation lonbg form 07:22:29 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:22:40 long form 07:23:12 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:23:18 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:23:35 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 07:23:43 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:15 attila_lendvai: btw thankas.. will mess with it and see 07:24:37 dmiles_afk, yw, good luck! 07:25:48 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:29:20 -!- smanek [~smanek@rrcs-24-213-164-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:32 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:30:42 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:09 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:40 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:40:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:41:07 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:42:00 -!- pmd [~pmd@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:02 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-209.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:47:55 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:44 splittist [~3ecbc27d@gateway/web/freenode/x-znixwufbwhprvbpx] has joined #lisp 07:48:47 morning 07:48:57 hello splittist 07:50:14 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 so how well does not using a relational database with common lisp work? 07:54:35 can you avoid overwriting things when jsut using files? 07:55:44 Relational databases work fine with CL 07:55:53 -!- sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:59 no no say I wanted to avoid using a realtional db 07:56:05 gws: Write new files. 07:56:11 You'll need to clarify your last question, I don't quite understand. 07:57:12 If you are creating your own store and want to do anything complicated, might was well use a code that's already written to do that. 07:57:32 You can use elephant on BDB 07:57:46 Think about the problem you are trying to solve, first, rather than the solutions. 07:57:51 What problem are you trying to solve? 07:58:16 http://paulgraham.com/vwfaq.html What database did you use? 07:58:17 We didn't use one. We just stored everything in files. The Unix file system is pretty good at not losing your data, especially if you put the files on a Netapp. 07:58:17 It is a common mistake to think of Web-based apps as interfaces to databases. Desktop apps aren't just interfaces to databases; why should Web-based apps be any different? 07:58:25 kinda cool sounding 07:58:36 Because of state 07:59:08 Databases = persistency = state, HTTP = stateless 07:59:41 While we were doing Viaweb, we took a good deal of heat from pseudo-technical people like VCs and industry analysts for not using a database-- and for using cheap Intel boxes running FreeBSD as servers. But when we were getting bought by Yahoo, we found that they also just stored everything in files-- and all their servers were also cheap Intel boxes running FreeBSD. 08:00:28 database can mean data store 08:00:46 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:00:56 If by database you mean an RDBMS (relational database management system) then of course you don't need to use that type of store. 08:01:48 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@st401-108.subnet-249.amherst.edu] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 08:02:23 If you need persistency, you'll need a data store. If you are writing a web app, you'll need to persist session data unless you are doing stuff that doesn't require sessions. 08:02:44 The filesystem is a kind of database. 08:03:31 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:50 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:50 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-188.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:04:57 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:05:03 gws: Btw many desktop apps use a persistent store and also in-memory stores. Even in memory SQL databases. 08:05:35 They're called embedded databases. 08:06:15 well paul graham didn't and his app sold for $50,000,000 08:06:23 k, go for it. 08:06:34 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 08:06:35 Think about the problem before the solution :) 08:06:37 I'll let you know how it pans out. 08:06:47 I don't think you've mentioned the problem that you're trying to solve. 08:06:50 problem: I am poor 08:07:00 problem: I am 6-6 and 300 pound 08:07:09 well I am not poor poor 08:07:18 but I am not driving a farrari 08:07:31 gws: Please increase your anti-retardation dosage. 08:07:41 I want to make a dynamoc website that is easy to move and takes little space adn is felxible. 08:07:56 perhaps with a netbsd desktop and a lisp interpreter 08:08:11 I would like to avoid using a sql databse 08:08:38 and would like to be able to move the site to a larger box if needed 08:08:39 gws: try sbcl, elephant, bdb 08:08:42 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:04 is berkley db free anymore? 08:09:16 Yeah 08:09:25 -!- arbscht_ is now known as arbscht 08:09:59 http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.html 08:10:18 cmsimon [~Chris@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 08:10:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rabgfghnuxmfhlau] has left #lisp 08:11:36 Also, Hunchentoot 08:13:08 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:19 I used that exact stack a year ago on FreeBSD and Linux. 08:14:11 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:14:24 gozek [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has joined #lisp 08:15:09 '/whois gws' is enlightening 08:15:30 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:16:34 -!- valentingolev [~valentin@178.176.6.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:18:28 you didn't figure it out without? 08:19:00 psyllo seemed to be taking him seriously 08:20:41 I totally want to get hunchentoot up and running. 08:21:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xgxjtduhlrupclrc] has joined #lisp 08:23:15 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xgxjtduhlrupclrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ygjtarwqgqdqyxri] has joined #lisp 08:24:21 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:25:21 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 08:25:28 hi, a question. The standard says something about if slots are identified by symbols or by symbol's names? 08:26:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:19 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ygjtarwqgqdqyxri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:44 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-phjszggsrdpdemid] has joined #lisp 08:28:51 by symbols 08:29:10 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:24 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-phjszggsrdpdemid] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hchjluuibdnvmwaw] has joined #lisp 08:30:38 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hchjluuibdnvmwaw] has left #lisp 08:31:27 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:01 ok. I asked because sbcl signaled a style-warning. Thanks 08:32:06 how would one transmit data from one machine to another using common lisp without writing to disk? can one lisp interpreter somehow transmit lsits to another over some protocall? 08:32:17 lists 08:32:34 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:59 read on wikipedia about sockets 08:34:11 then Can I write a subclass in a package B of a class whose slots are symbols of a package A 08:34:37 without fear to collision troubles, right? 08:34:44 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 08:35:22 yes I think so 08:35:45 thanks :-) 08:36:03 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:27 davazp: package A will need to export the symbols, of course 08:36:46 hm? 08:36:55 well 08:36:58 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/sockets.html ? 08:37:00 not sure about subclassing, but I imagine so 08:37:18 -!- gws is now known as lawful_evil 08:37:19 but for general use a la with-slots, of course 08:38:10 in general, do not use slots directly but accessors; though I'm a use-slots-directly kind of guy myself :-) 08:38:13 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has joined #lisp 08:39:09 I think the trouble arises with accessor too. If I define a subclass which shadow the previous slot 08:40:01 the accessor defined on the parent class will reference to the new slot too 08:40:27 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:58 unless slots are identified by symbols and you subclass it from other package 08:42:13 I want to export a class and allow the user subclass it 08:42:24 but he cannot break the funcionality shadowing slots 08:44:07 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 08:44:14 mega1 [~quassel@pool-0619f.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.32.56] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 08:46:09 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:20 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:46:40 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:51 -!- 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#lisp 09:29:59 Hi, anyone knows of the clisp-oracle system can be used in other cl implementations? 09:30:56 I use plain-odbc but am having trouble connecting to a remote oracle database with it (because of the DB itself and it's security it doesn't accept odbc connections) 09:35:01 -!- francogrex [~user@5.84-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:25 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:40 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:38:55 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 09:39:00 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:09 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:35 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 09:40:39 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:13 c|mell 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09:55:07 'noon 09:55:34 -!- pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:27 yo nikodemus, s'up? 09:59:37 sniping at launchpad & sbcl-[deval|help] backlog :) 10:00:25 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 (and trying to sort out the accounting mess i've managed to create) 10:00:48 how about you? 10:00:58 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:01:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:02:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:33 pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 10:03:19 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:47 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:09:13 the usual - telling myself to get more organized so I can use the snippets of free time I have to do more lisp 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joined #lisp 11:07:46 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07:46 -!- lukego_ is now known as lukego 11:07:49 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 11:14:13 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-136-121.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:11 unicode [~user@95.214.24.163] has joined #lisp 11:21:28 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:30 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:25:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.32.85] has joined #lisp 11:29:13 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:14 nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:25 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:30:31 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:30:54 hello 11:31:21 ojw [~ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:33:26 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:26 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:29 kephas [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:25 Does anyone know where readline(3) actually reads from? 11:37:42 It says it reads from the terminal; does it do that directly? I.e. does not read from stdin? 11:39:09 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:00 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:40:09 so it seems 11:40:43 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:44:03 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:03 -!- kephas [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:36 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:28 tcr: yep, since it needs to set the terminal into raw mode (etc) 11:53:03 nyef [~user@96.32.242.15] has joined #lisp 11:53:06 G'morning all. 11:53:13 nyef: 'morning 11:53:50 hello nyef 11:54:36 prxq [~mommer@g226142193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:18 -!- nickjd [~76ec90aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-qdxjgxfxjelgldub] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:53 moin 11:57:43 hi 11:59:13 -!- ojw [~ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 12:00:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has joined #lisp 12:01:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:02:42 pmd [~pmd@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 12:04:30 kwinz3 [kwinz@212067233203.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 12:05:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 12:05:35 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:06:39 Blkt [~user@93-33-136-121.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:08:14 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:09:23 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226142193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.32.85] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:22:09 -!- kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:20 -!- GrayGnome` [~MuneNoKag@isr5162.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:47 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:00 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:37 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:31:45 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0ADEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:35:19 mega1 [~quassel@3e44b17d.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:36:02 Does anyone happen to know if this restriction still applies to the Clozure Cocoa bridge: "Because of the way that the ObjC bridge currently works, a saved image is dependent upon the exact versions of the Cocoa libraries which were present when it was saved. "? 12:36:08 (From http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter14.4.html) 12:37:08 Ah, never mind, it is NOT; the manual is just out of date: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/NoteAboutCocoaVersions 12:38:23 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 12:40:25 -!- trittweiler [~tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:50 rsynnott: File a bug against the manual? 12:42:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:43:02 nyef: Will do, later 12:43:04 good afternoon 12:43:19 though now I look at it, it doesn't look like the manual has been changed in a very long time 12:43:21 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:43:34 (it still dominates search results for clozure cl, though) 12:44:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:44:35 nikodemus pasted "for WITH-COMPILATION-UNIT" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241 12:45:10 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:45:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 12:45:30 slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:48 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:49:01 nikodemus: As documentation, it looks good. I don't know if/how it matches up with current practice in SBCL, though. 12:49:17 current practices meaning? 12:50:15 I don't know if what is described has been implemented. 12:50:39 it is here :) not committed yet 12:51:22 (it's just optionally binding *POLICY* and *POLICY-RESTRICTIONS*) 12:52:15 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:01 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:54:14 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:54:15 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 12:55:04 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:55:41 the only thing i'm wondering about is needing to do (with-compilation-unit (:policy '(optimize)) ...) to restrict proclamations to the body without adding any up-front 12:56:50 What happens with :policy NIL? 12:57:02 same as :policy not provided at all 12:57:13 Hmm. 12:57:49 Something strikes me as being slightly wrong with that, but I'm not sure how to improve the situation. 12:58:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:01 nikodemus annotated #96241 "clarified" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241#1 13:00:30 s/curren/current policy/ 13:02:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:43 nikodemus: I'm not sure... I wanted to add a with-optimization-settings which just locally binds *policy* but does not restrict. 13:06:00 I'd rather see :policy do that, and a :restricted-policy do the restriction 13:06:07 tcr: it doesn't restrict, it binds *policy-restrictions* 13:06:50 " restricts effects of subsequent OPTIMIZE proclamations and 13:06:51 SB-EXT:RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY to the dynamic extent of BODY. 13:06:51 " 13:07:18 oops, sorry 13:07:21 oh ok 13:07:31 I'd s/restricts/limits/ 13:07:44 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:16 orm [~a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/x-dygcbdediwwbnhtp] has joined #lisp 13:08:17 nikodemus annotated #96241 "take 3" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241#2 13:09:28 "and uses of RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY" perhaps? 13:09:37 nikodemus annotated #96241 "feh, take 4" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241#3 13:10:58 I do not understand the exacts semantics of :override t vs. nil by that docstring 13:11:16 if :override is nil, are the given optimization settings merged with the current policy? 13:11:21 yes 13:12:08 alright, so I'm coming to lisp from C++ and I need something cleared up about the "let" form 13:12:52 it's like defining a scope in C++ with {} right? only you can assign any value with let 13:13:01 nikodemus: I'd add a sentence for that case, too. :-) 13:13:36 orm: that's not entirely true. as far as i remember, when the program exits from {}, it destroys variable declared there 13:13:37 i understand lisp is dynamically typed, so that doesn't confuse me 13:13:56 the LET form however doesn't do such thing 13:14:55 nikodemus annotated #96241 "take 5" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241#4 13:15:09 dodek: yeah, if I have int function(){ /*dostuff*/ {int foo; foo = 10; } /*domorestuff, but foo is unavailable*/ return foo; }, the compiler will of course bitch at you 13:15:36 orm: It will bitch at you in CL, too. Dodek is just being confusing. 13:16:18 minion: tell orm about pcl-book 13:16:18 orm: please see pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:16:26 I know, I'm reading that 13:16:29 ok :) 13:16:33 im just making sure I understand 13:16:38 nikodemus: Is that really true "with the current global policy"? Not with the policy possibly previously established by an out with-compilation-unit? 13:16:39 { int *foo; { int x = 3; foo = &x; } printf("%d", *foo); } 13:16:53 ew 13:16:56 why? 13:16:59 that won't work in C, it however will in CL 13:17:05 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 13:17:09 ah 13:17:19 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:37 Dodek: That's a little disingenuous, given the lack of pointers in lisp. 13:17:38 orm: So, you seem on track so far  did you have more of a question or was "{} == let" it? 13:17:44 unnh. tcr, yeah. running out of terminology 13:17:49 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 13:18:15 nikodemus: hmmm right there seems to be a terminology overloading 13:18:17 sellout, no, I was associating let with declaring a variable only let also defines a scope 13:18:57 *orm* goes back to reading pcl 13:19:24 tcr: how about "Executes BODY with dynamically bound global compiler optimization qualities and restrictions." right at start? 13:19:33 nyef: i could put it differently, but this seemed to an appropriate explanation 13:19:37 orm, note the difference between LET and LET* 13:19:39 clhs let* 13:19:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 13:19:43 seemed to be* 13:20:06 variable declarations in C are more like LET* 13:20:44 global declaration is in fact a glossary item: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_g.htm#global_declaration 13:21:00 yeah, they can be used outside the scope of where the variable was declared right? 13:21:11 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:26 so like (let* ((foo 10)))(+ foo 5) would rin right? 13:21:32 nikodemus: I'm wondering if s/global/current/ would be better 13:21:45 run* 13:22:31 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:23:22 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 13:24:22 orm: no, that won't work. 13:24:33 yeah, just tried it 13:24:37 foo wasn't defined 13:24:47 using the clisp REPL oin linux btw 13:25:15 dunno if i should call it a compiler or interpreter. what do you all call it? 13:25:24 orm: "environment" 13:25:24 orm, this works, though: (funcall (let ((x 1)) (lambda () x))) 13:25:50 lisp... it's so strange and alien... and I think I like it... 13:26:04 orm: No. It just allows declarations to see earlier declarations  eg (let ((foo 3) (bar foo)) ...) breaks (or uses the dynamic (kinda global) variable foo), but (let* ((foo 3) (bar foo)) ...) works. 13:26:06 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 13:26:16 orm, http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html 13:28:01 -!- spiaggia` [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:28:06 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:30:12 ok, so let* allows a wider scope 13:30:14 ? 13:30:35 no 13:30:43 well, in a sense yes 13:30:57 it's about doing bindings in parallel or sequentially 13:31:04 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:31:15 let and let* with a single binding have the same semantics 13:32:48 sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 yeah, i was looking at this: (let ((x 10) (y (+ x 10))) (list x y)), now this fails because let does not allow more than loe variable to be bound, but let* does? 13:34:02 orm: loe? 13:34:06 one* 13:34:07 wow 13:34:11 orm, LET can bind multiple variables, but it evaluates the new values of the bindings before it creates them 13:34:22 whereas let* doesn't 13:34:25 so in your last example, (+ x 10) gets evaluated before x is bound to 10 13:34:40 and x doesn't have a value 13:34:42 yet 13:34:50 so lisp goes "wtf" and crashes 13:34:52 well, maybe it has a value from an enclosing scope 13:35:11 lisp enters the debugger. 13:35:18 like if this was in the body of a defun 13:35:30 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:35:31 and x was a function parameter 13:35:33 (let ((x 0)) ... (let ((x 10) (y (+ x 5))) (list x y))) -> (10 5) 13:36:21 alright, that makes sense 13:36:22 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:32 but let* would allow me to bypass all that 13:36:49 by binding x first 13:37:17 ok, makes sense 13:40:09 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:28 nikodemus annotated #96241 "take 6" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96241#5 13:41:32 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 13:44:28 shortsightedsid [~shortsigh@192.163.20.231] has joined #lisp 13:45:10 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:24 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:29 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 13:46:38 metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 -!- shortsightedsid [~shortsigh@192.163.20.231] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:54 -!- pmd [~pmd@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:50:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:52:33 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:52:44 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:53:49 ok, that's going to be good enough 13:54:30 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:11 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:31 vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:31 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:57 i may have misunderstood this other person, but I wanted to clear another thing up. he said that binaries coded in other languages (a C++ lib, for example) can be used with lisp 13:59:07 is that really true or was he blowing smoke? 13:59:27 orm: Yeah, look at CFFI. 13:59:30 minion: CFFI 13:59:31 CFFI: CFFI, the Common Foreign Function Interface, purports to be a portable foreign function interface for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/CFFI 13:59:37 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 13:59:51 orm: was that really necessary? 14:00:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:25 knowing I don't have to "port" my opengl rendering engine to use it with lisp... yeah 14:00:32 it was 14:00:39 cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has joined #lisp 14:00:56 he's just growing up and doesn't know any better. you shouldn't hold him to the same standards as adults 14:00:59 i'll have to write a lisp wrapper ofc, but still 14:01:07 orm: Well, C++ is a bit complicated, but if you have a C interface  14:01:18 yeah, i exposed my entire library C style 14:02:08 -!- ned [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:02:36 btw, i'm 20 dlowe. i'm not a kid 14:02:49 to you maybe 14:03:15 age is not entitlement to the title "adult", though 14:03:17 orm: Ignore them. They're just not used to someone being excited. 14:03:37 (that wasn't a jab at anyone, though) 14:03:49 lol 14:04:21 orm: I always found it neat to be able to define interfaces interactively and call them immediately. 14:04:49 orm: Before I saw how that worked in CL, I thought you had to, say, write some C glue code. 14:04:56 yeah, the whole code->compile->test_repeat cycle is getting a little... ehhh, necessarily evil 14:05:07 test->repeat* 14:05:14 i mean for C libraries, not just Lisp code 14:06:01 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.24.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:57 *nyef* comes to the conclusion that the CLIM specification for event handling is broken. 14:07:26 still got alot to learn about lisp though, so I'm not gonna worry about it for now 14:07:45 i always thought lisp would work well as a scripting language 14:07:58 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:40 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:09:14 Events are broadly categorized as pointer events or keyboard events, there's an entire separate channel for repaint events, and there are defined event types for various other window events such as a geometry change or a window deletion, and there are timer events, and no channel defined to take the window events or timer events. 14:11:19 and yes, I do know about ECL. kinda sucks that it's under the GPL though 14:11:20 So, is a timeout a pointer event or a keyboard event? What about a resize notification? 14:11:21 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@212067233203.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:27 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:11:28 pmd [~user@84.123.54.144.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:29 orm, that depends heavily on how you define "scripting language" and "lisp" 14:12:11 -!- pmd [~user@84.123.54.144.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [K-Lined] 14:12:14 there are many apps that embed lisp dialects as an extension/scripting language (for example, emacs) 14:12:39 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 14:13:23 GIMP is another one 14:14:02 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 14:14:27 yeah, i was gonna use it kinda like that 14:15:25 and apparently it can compile sources, so I can add that feature to my game engine 14:15:34 give them the option to compile classes 14:15:42 defined in lisp 14:17:38 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:17:50 orm: there's a #lispgames channel for that kind of thing, too. 14:17:58 the folks there have made some neat stuff. 14:18:09 thanks, I'll hang out there for a while 14:18:24 dto made a pretty neat CL game that comes as a clickable Mac app on Macs. looks like any other program. 14:18:54 orm: ECL is under LGPL 14:18:57 ? 14:19:01 i read gpl... 14:19:04 *orm* double checks 14:19:32 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 14:19:40 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 Library General Public License =? Lesser GPL 14:20:03 ? 14:20:21 The ECL license doesn't stand in the way of commercial use. 14:20:22 LGPL :) 14:20:30 kick ass 14:20:49 Unless you use static linkage. 14:21:03 Zhivago: well, probably not; if they were to take a similar interpretation to the one in clisp's FAQ, it might 14:21:05 *buzzkill* 14:21:08 wut 14:21:13 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:21:19 (though the clisp people may of course be incorrect on that interpretation) 14:21:48 what about hard coding it into something? 14:21:51 not linking 14:21:59 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:22:58 orm: is your question about static vs. dynamic linking? 14:23:15 eh, you dont have to worry about it. I'll look over it 14:23:47 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-mxfuvhaqitscnywq] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 -!- Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.66.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:21 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xvxbmechsobsmcdi] has left #lisp 14:26:58 I'm good. Section 5 of the lgpl 14:27:37 you sure you're good? check out LLGPL. 14:27:51 A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library ... is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License. 14:28:02 i think that clears me 14:28:32 jdz: in this case, he wants to link ECL itself into some C thing, though, I think 14:28:45 so the special circumstances which required the creation of the LLGPL shouldn't apply 14:28:52 yeah 14:29:12 but it's still an issue which one should be aware of 14:29:14 or so i think 14:29:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:28 yeah, alot of libraries have restrictions on how they can be linked 14:29:56 jdz: oh, absolutely; probably not relevant in this particular case, though 14:30:08 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:30:15 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn1.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:30:36 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-134.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:31:28 in this case, I just want to embed an ECL vm into my app 14:31:51 Just link dynamically with the .so and you'll be fine. 14:32:22 orm: there was an mmorpg that did that 14:32:31 orm: I want to say eve online, but it might have been something different. 14:32:43 but then wouldn't I have to distribute the .so with the app? 14:34:01 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 14:34:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Client Quit] 14:37:54 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:38:04 Xach: an mmorpg with ecl? 14:38:14 I'm trying to google up the details. 14:38:24 It was an mmorpg but it might not have been ecl. 14:38:28 vendetta-online uses(used) sbcl 14:38:33 that was it. thanks. 14:38:53 and a1k0n is at yahoo now as far as i gather ;) 14:38:58 doing C++ 14:39:03 he won the google ai challenge 14:39:06 just recently 14:39:20 ye, that's where i gathered it from :) 14:43:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:43:51 congrats to him 14:47:40 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:05 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 14:52:15 -!- nyef [~user@96.32.242.15] has quit [Quit: Messing with hardware again.] 14:52:44 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 14:52:45 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 14:56:29 -!- cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has quit [Quit: so long..] 14:56:39 cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:35 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:59:14 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.143.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:59:31 -!- cmsimon [~Chris@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:10 xinming [~hyy@218.73.143.25] has joined #lisp 15:00:25 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:01:32 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:03:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:09:00 fiveop [~fiveop@e179123249.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:30 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:40 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Quit: lnostdal] 15:10:54 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:45 -!- vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:16:48 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:12 karim [~karim@neyret.fr] has joined #lisp 15:17:14 hi 15:17:39 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:17:51 unicode [~user@95.214.16.239] has joined #lisp 15:18:55 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 -!- lambda_nil [~jhuelga@81.Red-88-2-164.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:19:47 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 -!- karim [~karim@neyret.fr] has left #lisp 15:21:13 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.16.239] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:30 unicode [~user@95.214.16.239] has joined #lisp 15:22:09 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-134.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:11 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:57 -!- cornucopic [~r00t@202.3.77.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:25 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:28 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:27:54 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:28:38 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:30:48 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:36 tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:48 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:34:45 Are questions regarding a specific lisp library fair game? (Would like a suggestion on how to extract a subpattern with ppcre) 15:34:58 -!- Kakama [~Loli@c-76-27-19-196.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:35:04 tass: sure 15:35:27 ask away, the worst you'll get is puzzled silence 15:36:31 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:37:47 ; ) 15:38:15 second value of ppcre:scan-to-strings 15:38:24 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:38:35 prxq [~mommer@g226142193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:28 hi 15:39:40 What I'm trying to do is to extract a string between two HTML tags. 15:40:06 that's what html parsers are for 15:40:16 no, that's what perl is for 15:40:17 =p 15:40:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.84.250] has joined #lisp 15:40:28 sorry, perl is my language of choice for stuff like that 15:40:36 Yeah, perl is nifty. 15:40:49 minion: tell tass about closure-html 15:40:49 tass: please see closure-html: Closure-html is a portable HTML parsing library that understands malformed HTML. http://www.cliki.net/closure-html 15:41:03 tass: Do you have a more specific question? 15:41:13 Xach: Sure 15:41:55 orm: now you have three problems 15:42:03 The HTML looks kind of like this -> ...CompanyName">[the-string-I-want] And obviously, I'm not interested in the surrounding HTML. 15:44:24 use regex to strip out /<\/?[A-Z][a-z]*>/ 15:44:30 i think 15:44:43 might be horribly wrong 15:44:45 this is not a #perl 15:44:50 tass: is the question "how do I do that?"? 15:44:54 doesn't lisp have regex? 15:45:02 minion, tell orm about cl-ppcre 15:45:02 orm: direct your attention towards cl-ppcre: CL-PPCRE is a portable, Perl-compatible regular expression library by Edi Weitz. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ppcre 15:45:06 Xach: More like, what kinda function out of PPCRE I should use 15:45:15 tass, stassats` answered that question already 15:45:17 we like solutions that are correct and maintainable 15:45:20 second value of ppcre:scan-to-strings 15:46:04 Adlai: don't spread wrong answers! you shouldn't use regular expressions for this at all 15:46:38 Well.. doesn't that also suffer from the same problem? (That I *do* get the surrounding HTML?) 15:46:45 -!- orm [~a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/x-dygcbdediwwbnhtp] has left #lisp 15:47:06 true, if you're parsing HTML, use an HTML parsing library 15:48:54 if you're using regexes to manipulate HTML, you might as well do the whole thing with sed/awk 15:49:50 I'm extracting stuff from websites. 15:50:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:51:25 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:51:46 And I don't see the point in interfacing lisp to some perl/sed/awk script for the purpose.. 15:52:20 And you're sure you don't want an HTML parser? 15:52:22 even in Perl you'd use something like Mechanize 15:53:02 pkhuong: Quite, I'm not interested in the HTML, only what's between the HTML tags. 15:53:44 I've done similar regex parsing in perl and haskell (using the pcre library) 15:54:26 tass: and how does an HTML parser not help you do that correctly? 15:54:54 Frankly, I've never used one. and the one that was linked seemed to lack links to documentation. 15:55:44 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-57.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:55:53 have you tried going to the project's homepage? 15:56:47 Just found it, yeah, sorry about that. 15:56:52 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:58:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 15:58:43 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:52 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:59 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:01 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:02 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 16:04:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:31 nickjd [~76ec90aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-klbhsjthlgidtctw] has joined #lisp 16:04:54 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:05:10 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:47 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 16:06:02 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:26 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:18 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:07:18 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 16:08:37 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-111-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:13 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:46 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:36 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:59 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 16:21:28 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.84.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:55 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:22:06 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:08 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:17 rares [~rares@174-26-81-7.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:52 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.31.66] has joined #lisp 16:24:11 pmd [~user@S01060018f39bf21f.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:17 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:31 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 16:26:48 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:27:10 milanj [~milan@79.101.249.226] has joined #lisp 16:28:23 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 Greetings lispers. 16:28:39 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:28 Is it correct that there is no way to make the slot of an instance immutable? It can always be accessed and modified using SLOT-VALUE, correct? 16:30:57 yes 16:32:06 Instead, we rely on a contract with the user. If I define an accessor method, I'm telling the user that it's okay to modify that slot, if I define a reader, I'm telling the user that they should not modify that slot. To do so is at their own peril. 16:32:21 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: out] 16:32:31 tmh: the best you can do is to use an uninterned symbol as slot name 16:32:53 define a custom metaclass? 16:33:02 TR2N [email@89.180.178.15] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 fe[nl]ix: I don't want to go to that length. I just want to make sure I'm following a reasonable convention that makes the user responsible if they are directly mucking with the slot. 16:33:36 jsnell: I think that will be version 2. :-) 16:33:39 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:47 -!- ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:48 Use a structure? 16:34:15 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:34:18 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:34:19 the contract approach seems more mature: 'I've thought about this and you really shouldn't be touching that. But you might be smarter (or more experienced) than me, so if you really want to...' 16:34:36 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 16:34:42 doesn't slot-value work on structures? 16:34:56 pmd: not portably, and you can mark slots as read-only. 16:35:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:35:49 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:11 pkhuong: That also might happen down the road, right now I'm sticking with objects so that I can changes things on the fly. 16:36:12 Ping, the coffee shop network just dropped me. 16:36:41 ryepup1 [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 16:37:11 Ok, I haven't quite written my contract correctly, but now I know how to fix it. I'm also confident that down the road, things can be locked down as the library matures. 16:37:56 bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:37 don't use slots as API, and don't define a writer? 16:38:57 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:59 ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:24 -!- ryepup [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:40:12 The library does a fair amount of data verification when an instance is initialized. Then, I rely on the data not being modified and operate on it with no further checks assuming it has not been modified. 16:40:31 Modified in a way that would require further checking. 16:44:52 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:51:13 tmh: mucking with the internal symbols of another package are never your fault when users do it. Now granted a user can use internal symbols and such, but that might be cause for a bugreport/an interface to that (missing)? functionality being created so your user does not have to use the internal symbols. 16:51:13 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B8CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756526.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:05 At least that is how I view it, if I don't export it and someone uses it, its not my responsibility outside implementing new interfaces if need be. 16:52:56 Agreed. 16:54:42 I think thats prettymuch general convention tmh because there is little you can do with CLOS that someone can't undo just by changing or redefining the metaclasses (again my understanding). But if your users are doing that to get at some functionality your library does not have, then I think thats a good argument for the functionality to be implemented and a more normal interface created. 16:55:20 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:55:34 smanek [~smanek@rrcs-24-213-164-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:46 marcelinollano [~marcelino@8.Red-79-152-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:58 dm9 [~c3623942@gateway/web/freenode/x-jxgkhexybgjoswqr] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has joined #lisp 16:57:24 Hi guys 16:57:39 How do you think, what should work faster? 16:58:04 matrix multiplication implemented in C or the one implemented in Common Lisp? 16:58:30 the never-ending story has resumed... 16:58:36 dm9: matrix multiplication implemented with BLAS. 16:58:49 OMG, please do not start holywars :) 16:58:57 dm9: http://openmap.bbn.com/~kanderso/performance/ 16:59:44 nyef [~nyef@96.32.242.15] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 i think lisp will be faster if using bignums, not only during runtime but also the time you take to actually implement it 17:00:09 nixeagle: thns, interesting link :) 17:00:12 i.e. in lisp, multiplying fixnums and bignums uses the same code, in C no 17:00:20 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-55-172.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:30 pmd: what are you talking about? 17:00:48 -!- splittist [~3ecbc27d@gateway/web/freenode/x-toxwgmthuxlhcuof] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:00:58 dm9: If you're interested in getting the job done (as opposed to doing the implementation) see GSLL, which has an interface to BLAS. 17:01:09 pmd: I am going to implement a neural networks-based weather forecasting system and I'm choising a language for it 17:01:16 minion: tell dm9 about GSLL 17:01:16 dm9: have a look at GSLL: the Gnu Scientific Library for Lisp http://common-lisp.net/project/gsll 17:01:55 LiamH: thanks!! 17:02:12 pkhuong: a fixnum is an integer that (usually) fits in a (architecture dependent) word or dword 17:02:18 Ah, civilization! X11, XChat, and emacs! 17:02:21 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:26 much comparable to int in C (but not similar) 17:02:42 pmd: right. What are you taking about with using the same codepaths and performance? 17:02:44 dm9: np. GSL doesn't necessarily use a fast BLAS implementation like ATLAS though. 17:03:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:11 SBCL on amd64 should be decent on FP arithmetic with arrays; comparable to a C compiler without heroic efforts. 17:03:23 rpg: ping 17:03:27 dm9: If you are really that worried about performance, use the Intel Fortran compiler and their library. 17:03:38 In other words, good enough that, unless you're willing to vectorise for SSE yourself, you'll be able to focus on the data structure/locality issues. 17:03:39 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 17:03:41 *Fare* painstakingly rewrites the asdf.texinfo 17:03:56 yep, if you really want number crunching at uberfast speeds, grab a commercial Fortran compiler 17:04:09 LiamH: I am interested to make the solution portable (development on Linux and deployment for Windows), can I do it with CL and GSLL? 17:04:27 (eventually spend a long time in GCC manual) 17:05:02 dm9: I think so, GSLL should be as portable is its dependencies (GSL, CFFI, etc.). I know there is a windows user on the mailing list. 17:05:05 dm9: you can get a working system in lisp faster then you can in C. I'm almost positive on that, especially anything of a large size. 17:05:47 dm9: try with CCL on windows 17:06:05 tmh: Fortran is inacceptable for me :( The languages I know good are C, C++, Smalltalk + basic knowledge of Scheme & Prolog. But I assume I can learn CL faster than Fortran 17:06:06 but the problem dm9, is you don't have any specific benchmarks or requirements on speed, so its impossible to say if anything meets your requirements. 17:06:27 nixeagle: well, that's right 17:07:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:18 Ah, solved the problem with a, perhaps not all that beautiful, set of ppcre:register-groups-bind. 17:07:43 Now I just need to figure out why my 'let' won't return the list tree that I intended it to. 17:07:58 dm9: Actually, I think CL will work fine at this point in your development. Once you have something in hand that is working, you can tune CL for speed. At that point, if it is still unacceptable, you can port it to Fortran. Fortran is not that hard to learn, especially if you know the other languages. 17:08:49 -!- smanek [~smanek@rrcs-24-213-164-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 the big win is runtime modifiable programs. I love just redefining functions and objects as I develop rather then the old write/compile/run/debug cycle. 17:09:09 dm9: just go with something newer than Fortran 77 :) 17:09:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:09:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:09:52 nixeagle: unfortunately it takes away the possibility of explaining swordfights on top of chairs by claiming "I'm waiting for code to compile" 17:09:56 Heh, yeah. Use Fortran 95, that's the only one that is well supported by the compilers. 17:10:06 nixeagle: I know about this advantage - it's available in smalltalk too :) But smalltalk is _tooo_ slow 17:10:51 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 I'm afraid that fortran is inacceptable completely: I do need not only the language but platform: GUI, networking, XML & etc. I know that Common Lisp can give me all of this. 17:11:57 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 dm9: Why are you limiting yourself to a single language? 17:12:33 dm9: you can always combine Fortran for number crunching and CL for everything else 17:12:37 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 tmh: I never limited myself to a single language. I just need a rock-solid solution for my bachelor-degree work =) 17:14:00 dm9: Fortran for the win! :-P 17:14:17 the code is in emacs lisp, but my question is one that applies to CL in general. I've current got this macro: http://paste.lisp.org/display/96252 for modifying emacs modes. How can I define a function that can be called within a (modify-mode ...) sexp that has access to the argument of modify-mode? 17:15:00 poet: emacs lisp is dynamically scoped 17:15:26 oh, that's quite convenient :) 17:15:44 nixeagle: thanks 17:15:49 welcome :) 17:16:51 tmh: something inside me says to me that the fortran is not flexible enough.... 17:18:14 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:25 dm9: As I said before, I think you'll be fine using CL. Once you have something working, if you find some part of your code that you just can't optimize for speed sufficiently, implement that part in some other language. Then just define someway to communicate the data to the external code. 17:20:12 tmh: okay, thanks :-) 17:20:12 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:20:14 dm9: shared memory is one of the fastest channels you might use to communicate between such parts (just be wary of how you define control IPC for windows) 17:20:14 tmh: what could that be? matrix vector ops can be done in cl with almost the same speed as C 17:20:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:40 prxq: I'd guess some crazy loops that might be parallelized better by expensive fortran compiler 17:21:15 p_l: thank you for pointing me out on the IPC problem 17:21:24 p_l: well, that's a very peculiar and specific situation 17:21:25 prxq: I don't know, dm9 doesn't have any code. 17:21:52 dm9: My friend had issues with control channel in one of his apps on win32 17:21:52 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:22:08 "Oops" 17:22:16 qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has joined #lisp 17:22:29 dm9: he ended up doing byte-by-byte messaging to control access to shared space 17:22:47 p_l why not xml-rpc? 17:23:18 (i.e. "find window, send messages to establish context, do the changes in shared memory, notify that transfer was finished and supply the address") 17:23:45 killerstorm [~alex_mizr@195.225.156.132] has joined #lisp 17:23:50 dm9: no local sockets on win32, plus he kinda needed to find application by window id 17:24:50 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:26:09 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:09 and he couldn't really use FIFOs 17:27:18 hi. I'm somewhat confused about how &key arguments work... If I have generic function defined as (defgeneric handle (node &key &allow-other-keys) ...), can I have method like this: (defmethod handle (node &rest params) ...)? 17:27:42 In other words, can I think of &key as a fancy wrapper for &rest? 17:27:58 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 17:28:53 killerstorm: the answer looks like "yes" to me per point 4 on that page 17:29:51 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:13 lukego [~lukegorri@gprs39.swisscom-mobile.ch] has joined #lisp 17:30:19 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:58 That was quick. Thanks. Yep, looks like "yes". I've suspect that for some time, but didn't have a chance to clarify. 17:33:26 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@gprs39.swisscom-mobile.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:57 well, for C++ there is a "have-to-read" list that every _serious_ developer should read: Scott Meyers (Effective C++, More Effective C++), Herb Sutter (Exceptional C++, More Exceptional C++, Exceptional C++ Style), Andrey Alexandrescu (Modern C++ Design, C++ Coding Standart) and others - Introduction to Boost, Template Metaprogramming (lol, they call it "metaprogramming" :D). 17:34:17 What is about the "have-to-read" list for Common Lisp? 17:34:28 I know about PCL and "On Lisp" 17:34:36 dm9: Paradigms of AI Programming is on my list 17:35:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-55-172.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:15 dm9: for CL, I'd say there's CLHS, and (IMHO) PCL, PAIP, maybe On Lisp for advanced stuff (especially on macros), CLOS books, and some "smaller" papers 17:35:17 + AMOP 17:35:24 Keene's CLOS book 17:35:45 before AMOP, Keene's CLOS book, and that introduction-to-mop-whose-name-I-forgot 17:37:09 *dm9* is googling 17:37:16 ah, here it is: http://infolab.stanford.edu/~paepcke/shared-documents/mopintro.ps "User-level language crafting" 17:37:26 *Xach* hasn't seen that one 17:37:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:37:33 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:40 Xach: it left me drooling :D 17:38:11 especially given the fact that it used DB interface as example, while I was working on project that used DB :D 17:39:24 Oh, nice books 17:39:52 could you please place it in the right sequence according to the learning curve? 17:40:23 PCL, PAIP, then maybe mopintro, with CLHS all the time as reference 17:40:35 then LOL after all that 17:40:37 that's based on the books I *did* read 17:40:39 and MOP 17:40:52 Good evening! 17:40:56 OnLisp after PAIP, I would say. 17:41:00 there are some books that are harmful if you don't have any sort of context already. 17:41:19 LOL is harmful without context, AFAIK 17:41:25 if you don't have the internal guidance to question the advice 17:41:26 indeed 17:41:41 ANSI Common Lisp also 17:41:53 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 17:42:04 PCL+Keene's book and you can do a *lot* of things already. PAIP to get the final kick 17:42:13 Does PCL cover the IPC theme? 17:42:20 dm9: no. 17:42:23 IPC? 17:42:27 I learned with ANSI Common Lisp and to this day don't find it such a bad book 17:42:31 I think the Paepcke article is in http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=10443 17:42:42 actually, I don't think it is bad at all. 17:42:45 prxq: I also learned with ANSI Common Lisp and a recent re-read confirmed my distaste. 17:42:46 I have that at home, so I can't check at the moment. 17:42:49 inter process communication? 17:43:11 gigamonkey: yes 17:43:38 -!- nickjd [~76ec90aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-klbhsjthlgidtctw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:29 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:44:30 konr [~user@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 17:44:40 dm9: I don't think any of those books cover it directly (well, PCL covers networking), but PCL+PAIP plus some good read of networking guides/manuals/RFCs/etc. would be more than enough 17:45:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:45:13 p_l: nice! 17:45:21 Xach: there is stylistic quirkiness alright, and he has a strange opinion on object oriented programming, but other than that? 17:45:36 prxq: do you have a copy of the book? 17:45:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:46:07 not at hand but yes 17:46:25 check the index under "packages, grossness of" 17:46:33 okay, thanks to everyone who answered on my cl-beginner's questions in this thread, bb 17:46:33 :-) 17:46:49 Xach: I don't remember that one 17:46:55 gigamonkey, how is your Code Quarterly coming along? 17:47:07 prxq: that shabby treatment of useful features is extended to more than just packages, and in my mind makes it unsuitable as a recommended guide for Common Lisp. 17:47:10 pookleblinky: goodish. I'm working on getting folks to write stuff for it. 17:48:03 I was wondering, have you thought about interactive code walkthroughs? 17:48:22 I suppose it's possible. However "interactive" is hard to do in print. 17:48:47 There won't be a companion website? 17:49:19 Xach: I clearly have to look at it again one day 17:49:41 I don't remember it being like that 17:50:03 gigamonkey: website with login based on codes included in paper, where you could put stuff like (full) listings, screencaps/movies, etc. Also, for print-on-demand, a CD (where there's enough material) 17:50:20 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 17:51:04 p_l, screencaps and movies aren't as cool as "here is an online ide. See how you can actually apply this technique" 17:51:10 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-177.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:18 pookleblinky: online IDE depends on the languages etc. 17:51:31 p_l, yes, but so does code walkthroughs 17:51:43 Consider Fowler's Refactoring. 17:52:03 Nowadays, he could teach you by actually having you follow along the code in real time 17:52:23 Seeing exactly what he sees, tweaking with it in the same freedom he has. 17:53:19 I have seen possible solutions for Emacs, but there's nothing "ready" 17:53:41 p_l, www.ideone.com or gistdoit for instance, would nowadays let your article include an interactive component that actually allows people to do, not simply follow along. I find this interesting, but not yet done. 17:54:03 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-209-233.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:56:25 nickjd [~76ec66e2@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkmkydojpttziyvi] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 -!- dm9 [~c3623942@gateway/web/freenode/x-jxgkhexybgjoswqr] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:57:47 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:32 It's difficult to provide something like that with the durability and longevity of good, solid prose. 17:59:08 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:59:22 *Xach* thinks of some college nursing textbooks from the early 2000s with "interactive lessons" on CD, now completely obsolete and viewable 17:59:36 unviewable, that is 17:59:39 Xach, yes, that's the problem. 18:00:05 But if you do it right, actually encourage people to hack along, it could be very cool. 18:00:18 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:00:19 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:00:21 *pookleblinky* wonders if www.hackalong.com is reg'd 18:00:24 practical common lisp, definitely 18:01:45 sorry another elisp question. why would this macroexpand give me an undefined symbol, shouldn't it just print the sexps? http://paste.lisp.org/display/96254 18:02:01 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 18:02:14 pmd, imagine this embedded in PCL's site: http://run-this.appspot.com/ 18:02:57 poet: this channel is not for elisp help, sorry. 18:03:12 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 Xach: I mean I could rewrite the same problem in CL... 18:03:42 if you really feel that's necessary 18:03:47 Xach: I gave him a pointer above. Poet, try macroexpand alone and do so in the *scratch* buffer and hit C-j. Aside from that #emacs might have more people willing and able to help. 18:04:03 nixeagle: yeah I aske din there a bit ago 18:04:12 or you can use Stalin for number-crunching... 18:04:24 any texinfo expert? 18:04:48 how do I regenerate @node's and index entries after editing the asdf manual? 18:04:52 poet: Rewrite it in CL if you want to ask here. 18:05:40 That is kind of parochial, Xach 18:05:58 What if someone was playing with SHRDLU and came in here with MacLisp questions? 18:06:51 pookleblinky: Try #maclisp, with 400+ people devoted to the topic. 18:07:19 Ah, but this is #lisp 18:07:34 Not #foo-variety-of-lisp 18:07:37 The topic clearly states that this channel is for Common Lisp. 18:07:47 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 18:07:47 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 18:08:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:50 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082FBA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-209-233.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:22 austinh, good point. 18:09:35 *pookleblinky* just created #everylisp 18:10:15 hmm... would an implementation that defines a class for *every* type (similar to how there exist classes for some of the types in ANSI CL) be incompatible with ANSI? 18:10:24 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 18:10:51 p_l: what class goes with the type (mod 42)? 18:11:00 Xach: ah, right 18:11:07 I meant every *named* type 18:11:09 what class is a keyword ;) 18:11:32 its just a symbol that happens to be interned in :keyword (more or less...) 18:11:43 nixeagle: hey, just exploring the possibility :) 18:11:55 I know, just providing a counterexample ;) 18:12:01 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.137.22] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:12:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:12:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F7B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:22 I remember that one well because it took me the longest to figure out why I could not specialize a generic function on a keyword argument 18:12:58 -!- dys` is now known as dys 18:13:22 p_l: what is special about a named type? 18:13:54 Xach: nothing, really, except that I wanted a way to specialize methods on types, not only on classes ;-) 18:14:23 Xach: I'm betting he wants to specialize on one. For that there is http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html 18:14:34 you could say it's related to how I stumbled into any kind of understanding of CLOS, which happened through Haskell typeclasses 18:15:00 nixeagle: That's my current solution 18:15:05 p_l: check the link :). I think that nicely solves the problem of filtering on say a keyword/non-keyword. 18:15:07 Ah! 18:15:25 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:50 As I say, it might be related to the fact that I finally got a basic understanding of CLOS after going through Haskell typeclasses :) 18:16:01 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:19 pookleblinky: say, that's a nice page you've got there 18:16:19 no biggie :). It took me a while to finally understand why there is that distinction. 18:16:46 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:17:17 another reason might be the fact that I haven't seen PCL before that :) 18:18:23 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 pmd, not mine. But can you see how it would be awesome in code articles? 18:20:27 pookleblinky: only requirement is the source of the example be open I'd think. That would take care of some of the obsolescence issues. 18:20:44 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 18:21:06 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 it is really nice. are you thinking about common lisp? 18:22:33 well, I know that I plan on writing some stuff for CQ in CL :) 18:22:46 pookleblinky, actually, someone DID once come ask questions about SHRDLU, mostly about how to port it to CL (which he did) 18:22:51 heh. overuse of 2LA 18:23:30 unlike TLA, 2LA isn't autologous. 18:23:50 hi. is it possible to have two different connections to swank servers with one emacs? 18:24:23 nixeagle, even better: imagine something like the Ruby Quiz done via real-time begitt'd snips. 18:25:05 gigamonkey could have, for each such interactive article, a repo of gists criticizing it with better versions, etc. 18:25:08 gzip4: yes 18:25:18 It'd move the discussion to code, rather than words. 18:25:26 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:27 gzip4: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Connecting-to-a-remote-lisp.html#Connecting-to-a-remote-lisp 18:25:36 pookleblinky: i just see a short-comming: libraries 18:25:51 *p_l* imagines an interactive ebook 18:25:57 pmd, that's more a security problem for the host server. 18:25:59 i mean, it is good for only the most basic examples which depend on the bare language 18:26:07 nixeagle: thank you 18:27:11 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:27:11 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 18:27:12 welcome 18:27:37 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-214-247.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 nixeagle: but how to tell slime what connection is selected? 18:28:18 gzip4: M-x slime-selector RET 18:28:30 pmd: not really 18:28:59 for example, for CL, the article writer could prepare an image that would fork()ed on demand 18:29:30 nixeagle: and slime will work with one connection only until i would select the other? 18:29:41 p_l: for sure, but how many images would you have to keep after quite a while? what about other languages? etc 18:29:43 gzip4: try it ;) 18:30:05 ? after that slime-selector should be helpful :) 18:30:22 nixeagle: ok, thank you a lot ) 18:30:35 pmd: COW semantics for storage, plus other languages getting their environments prepared by authors as well 18:32:58 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 18:33:14 -!- milanj [~milan@79.101.249.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:36 well... ok. i was thinking about authors that don't have a hosting site other than a simple blog or similar 18:34:05 pmd: well, it started about authors submitting to CQ :) 18:35:07 cq? 18:35:35 Seibel's new venture 18:36:03 http://www.codequarterly.com/ 18:37:42 lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:38:20 milanj [~milan@91.150.119.134] has joined #lisp 18:39:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-214-247.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:40:36 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has joined #lisp 18:40:51 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:14 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:43:31 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:58 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-poxyvcghrswyimts] has joined #lisp 18:45:48 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-168-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:33 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has joined #lisp 18:51:44 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-78-167.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:52:35 nixeagle: yes, i really love it )) 18:53:50 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:54:51 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:44 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-168-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:59:24 tic [~tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:05:53 pjb [~t@64.Red-79-149-91.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:52 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:05 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:11:40 -!- killerstorm [~alex_mizr@195.225.156.132] has left #lisp 19:15:21 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-108-41.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:17:06 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:18:12 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 19:18:29 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:22:05 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 19:22:22 Axius [~hi@92.84.10.107] has joined #lisp 19:23:17 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.10.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:26 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:02 ned [~andrew@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:53 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:29:42 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-111-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 19:30:32 which is the best CL tool to draw some png image? 19:32:32 vecto comes to mind, which uses cl-vectors and zpng. 19:32:50 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:33:23 Harag [~Harag@41.56.28.101] has joined #lisp 19:33:31 zpng if you just want an array of pixels to splat to 19:34:08 I need transparency and brush handling 19:34:21 want to draw a couple of border-image ala CSS3 19:34:40 vecto would make that a little easier, i think. 19:38:59 is there a way in vecto to make a part of the image transparent after I have been already drawn there 19:39:01 ? 19:39:08 levente_meszaros: not directly. 19:39:28 levente_meszaros: you can reach into the image data and mess with it if you don't mind doing unsupported things. 19:39:44 *Xach* does that for AutoMotivator previews 19:39:45 Xach, how would you say fill a circle that has a square in it that is transparent? 19:40:11 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-111-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 levente_meszaros: draw the circle, then draw the square counter-clockwise, then fill 19:40:38 or maybe the other way around 19:41:21 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 19:41:41 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:42:17 what does cc mean in this context? 19:42:40 even-odd-fill-and-stroke? 19:42:57 levente_meszaros: it means the direction the line-to operations proceed 19:43:19 levente_meszaros: something like that. the PDF reference has more info. 19:44:04 Axius [~hi@92.84.10.107] has joined #lisp 19:46:15 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.10.107] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:14 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:28 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:48:33 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C081.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:49:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-29-108-41.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:26 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:51:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:51:39 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:52:57 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:53:25 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:55:18 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 19:56:36 levente_meszaros pasted "vecto" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96261 19:56:53 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 19:56:59 I get some weird output which I don't understand 19:57:42 i would expect weird output 19:58:10 levente_meszaros: you should not interleave the drawing of the two shapes 19:58:26 levente_meszaros: you should draw the circle paths first and then the square paths, then fill 19:58:42 Xach, er, the code is confusing somewhat 19:58:56 because one of the shapes is not a circle 19:59:10 it is built from 4 arcs and 4 lines 19:59:17 levente_meszaros: ok 19:59:27 an circle extended with 4 line segments 19:59:44 and in the center there's a square which should not be filled 19:59:45 levente_meszaros: i don't quite follow. do you have an image of the figure you want to draw? 19:59:51 a rounded rectangle? 20:00:15 oh, that's the name, yeah 20:00:26 but another rectangle cut out of it 20:00:42 oh, I see 20:00:46 there's a rounded-rectangle 20:01:15 levente_meszaros: perhaps you can get the output you want with a rounded join and a particular line width 20:01:24 what a surprise, it does what I expect 20:01:37 knowing the name is half the battle... 20:03:15 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:04:34 heh, and the gradient fill works too 20:04:35 nice :) 20:06:03 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:22 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:06:35 htk__ [~htk___@95.65.240.69] has joined #lisp 20:08:24 -!- spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:08:29 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:09:39 -!- aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:31 i'd like to see a picture! 20:10:44 *Xach* thought about writing that into the license: "if you make anything cool, send me a link" 20:11:26 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-168-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:44 hum. I have a (defgeneric foo (a b &key)) and when I do a (defmethod foo (a b &key c d) ... (foo a1 b2 :c c1 :d d1) ...) it STYLE-WARNs that foo only takes two arguments. 20:12:47 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:12:48 (on SBCL) 20:12:51 sucks. 20:13:17 *Xach* has deja vu 20:13:35 Xach, it's going to be a few borders for dwim.hu and hu.dwim.wui, maybe not so interesting 20:13:52 images of 6x6 or 15x15 and the like 20:14:09 Fare, I think you'd need to explicitly provide &aok in that defgeneric form 20:14:12 clhs 7.6.4 20:14:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 20:14:17 the browser makes that bigger automatically by splitting it into 9 smaller images ala CSS3 20:14:56 hm, I guess not. 20:15:23 Fare: I can't reproduce. 20:15:49 okay, now taken out of context >.< 20:15:52 Oh, I think I'm reproducing it wrong. 20:17:26 Fare: no, I really can't reproduce. 20:17:36 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 20:17:48 using SBCL 1.0.35.10... 20:17:55 lemme try to isolate a case. 20:18:17 (so far, I tried to summarize from the error output) 20:18:21 francogrex [~user@6.32-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 Hi, I'm doing something like this: (asdf-install:install "http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-rdbms/darcs/cl-rdbms/"); it's making a file like asdf-install-0.asdf-install-tmp and it's going up to 300 MB? what is this really installing? 20:21:09 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 20:21:09 I was hoping cl-rdbms and its dependencies only... but I doubt it 20:21:26 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-mxfuvhaqitscnywq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:46 who taught you to use asdf-install like that? 20:22:44 stassats: no-body like that. but cl-rdbms doesn't work vecause it's not in cliki so was trying 20:23:16 levente_meszaros annotated #96261 "this is good enough" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96261#1 20:23:17 francogrex, go to dwim.hu and in the documentation menu there's an install guide 20:23:39 francogrex, you can copy-paste lines to get the needed dependencies from there 20:23:45 Xach, if you want to look at it... but I doubt that it's worth 20:23:57 i never seem to get to dwim.hu, is that just me? 20:23:59 francogrex, hu.dwim.rdbms is the successor of cl-rdbms 20:24:03 levente_meszaros: cool, glad it works for you. 20:24:14 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:15 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:26 Xach, thanks, vecto is great stuff 20:24:36 *Fare* revamped the ASDF manual a little bit, now it's lost index and node information. 20:24:42 levente_meszaros: i have a layer that sits on top of "raw" vecto that provides for point objects, color objects (of different spaces), etc, but i haven't cleaned it up or released it yet. 20:24:52 other geometric objects... 20:24:53 Why can't the node information be automatically extracted, anyway? 20:25:03 stassats`, what do you mean? the page looks to be broken? 20:25:14 attila_lendvai: doesn't ping, doesn't connect 20:25:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:25:21 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:25:42 stassats`, works for me. but i think ping is disabled, though 20:25:44 Xach: did I ever send you my physical colour-space manipulation code? 20:25:54 nipra_ [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 20:26:02 or did I motivate you independently to look up sRGB / XYZ / LAB spaces? 20:26:03 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:27 Krystof: I think I saw the code. 20:26:30 my only problem with dwim.hu is that the site is very slow to respond. 20:26:35 attila_lendvai: it's been like that for at least couple of month 20:26:55 not that i need dwim.hu 20:27:06 stassats`, do you get back anything from here: http://dwim.hu/status 20:27:19 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 20:27:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:27:29 poet [~poet@vpn3-144169.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 -!- poet [~poet@vpn3-144169.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Changing host] 20:27:29 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 20:27:32 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:36 well, provided that i can't connect to the web-server, no 20:28:22 I don't have a problem 20:28:24 then it's most probably some network issue on your side. you're the first one reporting this... 20:28:44 attila_lendvai: thanks. But to corroborate stassats concern a little, the webpage loads almost ok, but it is rather heavy and it's difficult to navigate through it (my browser freezes and sometimes the layout gets funny) but it might be just me 20:28:53 let me try from the other place 20:29:40 http://common-lisp.net/~dlichteblau/clbuild-dwim.hu-live/ was able to check out hu.dwim.rdbms at some point 20:29:45 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 francogrex, dwim.hu itself is mostly crap. the framwork behind is the real thing 20:30:50 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:31:01 *attila_lendvai* is planning to rewrite the content at the front page for months now... 20:31:47 "I have a dwim" 20:32:00 traceroute fails on 213.163.53.201 20:32:09 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.8.21] has joined #lisp 20:32:25 how many hops down the route did you get? 20:32:28 Fare:lol 20:32:34 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-136-121.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:40 attila_lendvai: I'm on windows, unfortunately I don't think I can use darcs; now I need to install manually all depencies :( 20:32:41 Fade: 9 20:32:46 i can connect from another ISP 20:32:52 sounds like a bgp problem. 20:33:54 but it's worthwile; I need rdbms, because I need to connect to my companies oracle database; it doesn't work with odbc, It will work with oci 20:34:10 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-78-167.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:14 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:20 francogrex, windows will mean more issues once you got the repos... maybe rdbms itself can work, though... we never tested. 20:35:06 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.221] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 francogrex, then come to #dwim.hu and talk to kami, he's also playing with the oracle backend 20:35:20 ouch, speaking of windows... default pathnames under windows will be... hell. 20:35:36 -!- aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:54 attila_lendvai: great will do thanks 20:37:22 konr` [~user@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:01 Fare: I will pull the new texinfo stuff and try to build, fixing nodes as necessary. 20:38:21 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has joined #lisp 20:39:05 -!- konr [~user@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:28 beach: are you here? 20:43:34 lukego [~lukegorri@xdsl-188-155-14-178.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:44:29 -!- gozek [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has quit [Quit: I'll be back B)] 20:44:44 gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 20:46:20 saba [~saba@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:46:32 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:07 rpg: thanks a lot 20:47:15 if you have comments on the contents, they are welcome, too 20:50:09 or anyone else who can explain what beach meant when he said that the relational model was a kludge to work around pointers not being wide enough 20:52:10 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-245-55.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:52:59 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Quit: lnostdal] 20:53:19 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-245-55.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:19 Krystof: Unification of disk and core memory allows you to "forget" about databases and just keep your datastructures the way you want them 20:53:48 Fare: the ASDF in git is the 1.6 that you were talking about? 20:54:24 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 As a future cl-rdbms "on oracle on allegro on windows" user, I'm hoping that it'll just work. :-) 20:55:07 p_l: ok, but the relational model dates from 1969. Is that story a retrofitting? 20:57:47 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:58:16 p_l: yes 20:58:57 Krystof, any comments about getting rid of the long define-method-combination in asdf.lisp? (by putting the restart handling in a function do-perform instead) 21:00:16 Krystof, I suppose he really meant that people were using complex database applications with an ad-hoc query language because at the time they couldn't "just" put all the data in memory and use "normal" programs to query and massage the data. 21:01:15 the lispworks guys were nice to give me a license of lw60 so I can test ASDF (and other things) with their implementation. 21:01:43 I've been too shy to ask vendors a similar thing for testing my libraries. 21:01:47 Krystof: not exactly 21:01:56 Xach: you shouldn't be! 21:02:38 Krystof: also, relational model started out more as a datastructure itself, afaik 21:03:24 the main issue was IIRC not core/disk/tape organisation, but navigational vs. relational vs. isam 21:04:43 p_l: that might have been the debate in the 60s/70s, but not the reason why people largely adopted DBMSs in the 80s. 21:04:53 Fare: btw, I was wondering how well a GHC-style scheme would work for ASDF, where libraries/packages are registered into database with their locations, instead of searching files. 21:05:13 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:32 p_l: moreover, see http://fare.livejournal.com/121708.html [Databases vs Programming Languages] 21:05:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:48 Fare: true, that doesn't mean however that unified systems didn't exist (one of DB2 implementations is part of such system, on AS/400 aka System i) 21:05:51 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:13 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:25 p_l: they may exist, but are still marginal / expensive. Won't stay so for long. 21:07:43 System i is nowadays a difference of licensing costs (and I guess administrator wages) - it runs on the same hw as System p 21:09:32 -!- francogrex [~user@6.32-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:18 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 21:11:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:15 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:12:17 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:12:21 though, iOS as it's now called comes with RDBMS built-in :D 21:15:15 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:20 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 21:18:21 konr`` [~user@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 21:18:37 maden [~maden@dsl-147-30.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:19:10 Fare: OK, it's in. 21:19:14 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:19:54 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:22:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:23 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:23:26 yay! 21:23:47 rpg: git pull disagrees with your statement 21:26:43 rpg: should the README.* be integrated as chapters of the manual? 21:27:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:28:00 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f661bc0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 21:29:01 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:13 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:29:22 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-poxyvcghrswyimts] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:31:25 -!- gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:27 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.221] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:32:20 marioxcc [~user@200.92.166.193] has joined #lisp 21:32:32 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:33:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:34:46 -!- qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:27 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:35:53 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-125.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:36:22 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 21:37:53 -!- _3b``` is now known as _3b` 21:38:47 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:38:56 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:39:28 HG` [~HG@xdslek016.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:25 HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:42:28 i like watching my computer work hard for me 21:42:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756526.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:57 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:43:04 Fare: OK, please try again. 21:43:29 I have to go drive children around. Will IRC again probably around 5:15. 21:43:54 Meanwhile, if you pull from git now, I think you should have something that builds. 21:44:02 5:15 *central* 21:45:23 qamikaz [~alper@85.100.241.115] has joined #lisp 21:46:03 -!- gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:41 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:12 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:44 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:59:47 skv [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:35 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:48 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:07 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:03:39 Xach: I can reproduce when the functions are in different files 22:04:18 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226142193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:51 but not when they are in the same file 22:05:49 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662cef-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:06:27 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:29 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 22:07:21 is there a good reference on type specifiers? i.e. It is possible to specify the type of something as nil or a list of length 8? 22:07:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:37 *structure slot 22:07:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:26 *adeht* learns about sb-regpair from Krystof's post 22:09:35 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 will it work on vanilla sbcl? 22:10:39 seibel [~user@adsl-99-24-223-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:56 lukego: herep 22:11:43 seems to contain some patch 22:11:55 kroger [~user@189.115.241.60.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:12:34 -!- kroger [~user@189.115.241.60.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:21 clhs deftype 22:13:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_deftp.htm 22:13:25 poet: ^ 22:13:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:13:53 reported that SBCL (minor) bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/537711 22:13:58 drewc: thanks, exactly what I was looking for 22:14:00 clhs 4.2.3 22:14:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 22:14:04 poet: ^ 22:14:06 seibel, you're gigamonkey no more? 22:14:40 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-125.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:46 drewc: perfect, thanks :) 22:14:51 poet, (or null (cons * (cons * (cons * (cons * (cons * (cons * (cons * (cons * null))))))))) 22:15:08 Fare: haha, Fare, hilarious :-p 22:16:42 poet: you asked for it. 22:16:54 pjb: fair enough haha 22:16:56 funny cause it's true :) 22:17:09 yeah I know 22:17:10 uh, what's that * ?.. I would have thought (cons t ...) 22:17:11 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 the joke is on us. 22:17:45 Fare: our you suggesting that our type system is a joke? gasp! :P 22:17:49 are you* 22:18:09 poet: you can write code to come up with that.. (list-of-length x) ==> (cons t (cons t ...)) 22:18:13 Fare: git pull work for you now? 22:18:25 adeht: usually type specifier accept * as t. 22:18:44 rpg: yes, thanks 22:18:51 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-168-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:51 pjb: I remember it accepts * for unspecified size, but not type.. interesting 22:19:02 rpg: should the README.* be made their own texinfo files, or added as chapters to asdf.texinfo? 22:19:13 they shouldn't stay as READMEs. 22:19:29 Fare: I think probably better to add as chapters. I didn't have a chance to look at them yet; will try to do that this evening. 22:19:48 texinfo doesn't really cater to different files, except as different manuals. 22:20:38 Fare: I'm logged in as gigamonkey from another machine. 22:21:06 how many monkeys are you worth on this machine? 22:21:27 rpg: can you handle that? 22:21:49 I was hesitating about leaving source-registry as its own file, since its specification is shared with XCVB. 22:22:18 but it's OK for XCVB to refer to it. 22:22:27 as a chapter of the asdf manual. 22:22:42 ok, cl-net will be noticably faster thanks to ehu, who fixed trac! 22:22:45 rpg: apart from the documentation, what are roadblocks to releasing ASDF 2? 22:22:50 thanks, ehu! 22:23:06 minion: are you noticably faster? 22:23:07 maybe 22:23:17 fair enough! :) 22:23:46 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.8.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:47 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:52 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 22:24:52 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:25:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslek016.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:39 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:25:59 Fare: I'll try to get them folded in, yes. 22:26:18 ok, thanks a lot 22:26:20 Fare: as for roadblocks, I think we should do a pass over the launchpad tickets.... 22:26:32 pull before you do, I'm making minor changes to the manual. 22:28:06 current section 7 should be merged with README.asdf-output-translations 22:28:30 sections 8 and 9 should be merged. 22:28:34 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:17 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@8.Red-79-152-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:22 the FAQ should be split into sections 22:33:32 lispworks is pretty fast at loading asdf.lisp, unlike sbcl, that takes a while. 22:33:41 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 22:34:41 Please be very careful doing the merging if you are not going to use emacs to maintain the nodes. 22:34:42 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:34:54 This is the sort of thing that's a lot harder to do when changes are batched up. 22:35:05 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:35:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:35:53 Fare: What are sections 8 and 9? 22:36:33 7 Controlling where ASDF saves compiled files 22:36:33 Fare: welcome :-) 22:36:42 8 Error handling 22:36:42 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.214] has joined #lisp 22:36:48 9 Compilation error and warning handling 22:37:05 Fare: what about my suggestion for alternative find-system method (one based on database of installed packages?) 22:37:18 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:52 p_l: how much would that help wrt current system? 22:38:05 how would you specify the db? 22:38:19 Fare: I saw that, too. If you don't mind, I'll make that fix. 22:38:28 (the 8 and 9 one) 22:38:33 Fare: versioned dependencies + READable "database". a'la GHC 22:38:37 I mean, *defined-systems* is the DB, and find-system (lazily) builds the DB from the source-registry configuration 22:38:53 *Fare* just released 1.633 22:39:33 list-of-length type pasted "adeht" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96264 22:39:47 p_l: I'm not sure how much your system would help. Seems to me it would only make configuration harder. 22:40:06 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 22:40:11 heh, mismatched fields 22:40:13 whereas the equivalent can be implemented easily on top of current facilities 22:40:44 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:02 p_l: if you come with working code, I may consider merging it. But please first provide some example and argue how it's a boon to either users or implementers 22:41:20 currently, ASDF doesn't handle versioning. 22:41:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:41:25 Fare: I am off to drive around for a while. I will get that 8 & 9 merge first.. 22:41:25 neither does XCVB 22:41:42 Fare: I'll try working a nice example, though I guess it might fit XCVB better than ASDF - I'm basing the whole idea on how GHC supports modules 22:41:44 After that, in discrete commit, I will get the section 7 one. 22:41:44 rpg: np. Just warn me (irc and/or email) when I should pull. 22:41:53 back later. 22:42:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:42:36 p_l: XCVB has no notion of versions as of now, but if you're going to put version support somewhere, XCVB might be a better place than ASDF. 22:42:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8CEB.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:43:37 Fare: preferably, as far as I had seen, I'd love to get (possibly extended) XCVB to replace ASDF as the default facility 22:43:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:44:51 hum. Haven't worked on XCVB for weeks. 22:44:56 Gotta do something today. 22:45:02 otherwise, next thursday 22:45:39 list-of-length type annotated #96264 "support unspecified type for list-of-type" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96264#1 22:45:44 *Fare* tries to isolate a LispWorks bug whereby a WARNING is issued where a STYLE-WARNING at most is due. 22:47:57 hmm.. this is weird. sbcl: (typep '(foo bar . 42) 'list) ==> true, (check-type '(foo bar . 42) list) ==> error 22:49:12 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:49:38 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:56 adeht: looks like a bug to me. 22:51:22 -!- danopia [~danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:51:39 this works 22:51:40 (let ((x '(foo bar . 42))) (check-type x list)) 22:52:04 the macroexpansion of CHECK-TYPE expands to (setf '(foo bar . 42) ...) 22:52:23 drewc: actually the bug is mine 22:52:30 check-type expects a place 22:52:36 yep! 22:52:39 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:58 adeht: heh, just came back to say that :) 22:53:42 long live the hyperspec! 22:54:06 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:54:38 and of course my list-of-length is buggy too, as it expects a proper list.. null ==> atom 22:54:58 or rather, null ==> (or null ,type) 22:55:49 but then, is the length of (a b . c) 2 or 3? 22:55:57 :( 22:56:20 LENGTH is defined for proper sequences.. 22:56:29 adeht: endp instead of atom 22:57:09 so it should be really be proper-list-of-length and error on nonproper lists 22:57:19 (as well as other things) 22:57:29 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:58:07 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:59:02 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 22:59:15 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:36 which gets the real point, that things of type list are not really lists and don't really have length :) 23:00:15 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:39 adeht: well you either define it to count proper lists or count something else. You can't really have both unless when you wrote that you "meant" count the number of leafs in a tree. What does your function do with '((1 . ((2 . 3) . (( 4 . 5) . nil))) . 6) 23:02:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:21 sb-sequence + defstruct proper-list ... and you have to say 'proper' in a chav accent.... 'dats a proper list like, ya fink?' 23:02:54 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:07 list-of-length type annotated #96264 "the real deal?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96264#2 23:03:44 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:03:54 erm, that proper-list-of-type shouldn't be there :( 23:04:24 that's some ugly code you have there... 23:04:49 danopia [~danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia] has joined #lisp 23:05:07 list-of-length type annotated #96264 "sigh" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96264#3 23:05:28 mejja: any way to make it pretty? 23:08:09 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.240] has joined #lisp 23:08:52 tltstc` [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:01 adeht: i'm suspicious of that gensym for the satisfies function 23:09:18 drewc: unfortunately satisfies can't take a lambda expression 23:10:17 adeht: no, but you can name the function. create a package, name the function list-type-specifiers::|package::type-name| 23:10:51 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:14 or actually, since all the generated functions will be the same, you can just name them after the typespec like 23:11:15 drewc: I guess.. 23:11:29 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:12:26 drewc: well, several typespecs may refer to the same type.. so duplication of equivalent functions is still easy to achieve 23:13:33 rpg [~rpg@ip67-152-153-45.z153-152-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:35 true enough, and that not the worry... i just have this feeling that type expansion happens in such a way that the gensym might screw you on redefinitions and compile/load time differences 23:13:53 Fare: are you still there? 23:13:58 if you're looking for the "good enough" solution (and think the current solution is not good enough) a hash-table with equal test might do 23:14:13 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178216207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:15 having been screwed that way myself in other situations, that gensym screams pain to me :) 23:14:43 maybe a the values should be weak 23:15:19 yes 23:15:24 not for long tho 23:17:33 Fare: I was just merging the error section and the wording seemed a little odd 23:17:52 ""It is an error to define a system incorrectly: an implementation may detect this and signal a generalised instance of ..." 23:18:15 Since we are the implementation, this seems odd. 23:18:33 yeah. 23:18:53 I don't know where this comes from. Maybe the spec was written with the idea of multiple ASDF implementations. 23:19:05 I haven't cross-referenced with the source code. 23:19:48 OK. I just modified to make it "ASDF may..." 23:19:59 I'll get that in, then do the readme merge. 23:21:05 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:21:11 -!- milanj [~milan@91.150.119.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:45 Should I ever decide to do my own build system, I hope to come up with a better name than mk-nyefsystem. 23:24:25 -!- pmd [~user@S01060018f39bf21f.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:10 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.137] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:44 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:36 konr``` [~user@201.82.140.74] has joined #lisp 23:29:07 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:09 -!- konr`` [~user@201.82.140.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:18 *Xach* finds http://cse.osu.edu/~cmcurtin/cse459.31/ 23:32:32 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:31 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:51 bgs100 [~ian@h69.36.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:56 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h69.36.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:33:56 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:37:20 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:37:22 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 23:37:35 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:39:25 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.15] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 23:40:24 nyef: i'm not sure there _is_ a better name! 23:40:43 Xach: that is _awesome_ :) 23:41:59 Xach: nice! 23:42:34 drewc: yeah situation looks pretty bad with (load (compile-file ...)) (w/ the hash-table modification) 23:42:36 Xach: although I'm not sure how to interpret the Dijkstra macro in this context -- are the students, probably javamonkeys by now, doing it wrong, or are you taking this Common Lisp course to learn how you should never, ever program? :) 23:42:54 Except that course needs a better textbook. ;-) 23:43:00 sykopomp: dijkstra?! 23:43:10 *Xach* launches a Know your Icons project 23:43:18 oh my god wait 23:43:19 no no 23:43:30 *drewc* looks sideways at sykopomp 23:43:42 seibel: if only it had exercises... 23:43:47 *sykopomp* hides 23:44:02 Xach: well, there's that. 23:44:02 HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:14 Xach: there's an image macro just like that that uses a picture of dijkstra :( 23:44:34 not just like that. he wouldn't approve 23:44:40 nah Dijsktra's "Quick & Dirty: I Would Not LIke It" 23:44:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44:52 I assume that's mccarthy, but the pictures I've seen of mccarthy are much older than that, so I'm not even sure. 23:45:04 sykopomp: http://lemonodor.com/archives/2007/10/youre_doing_it_wrong.html 23:45:34 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:56 Xach: there we go :\ 23:46:44 gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 23:46:51 my, how time flies 23:47:10 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:49:51 yikes... yesterday was almost 2-1/2 years ago?! 23:51:26 -!- qamikaz [~alper@85.100.241.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:10 kazoo [~WHY@pool-71-104-120-200.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:46 so apparently that approach to work around satisfies is bad 23:54:50 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-122-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:55:59 why won't satisfies take a list of additional (externalizable) arguments to pass to the function? 23:56:07 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 adeht: does flet work? 23:57:46 sykopomp: no.. satisfies takes a symbol 23:58:24 adeht: Because it's expected to be a globally-defined predicate? 23:59:08 adeht: well, (let ... (defun ...))? 23:59:32 nyef: I'm not sure what you mean by that