00:00:16 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:01:21 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:01:25 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:48 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:02:22 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.85.172] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:04:39 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:51 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 devslash1ull [~james@202.3.37.242] has joined #lisp 00:06:05 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 -!- devslashnull [~james@dyn-190.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:23 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.243] has joined #lisp 00:07:27 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:07:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:56 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:04 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 00:10:53 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:50 pkhuong: poly-pen seems to be what i was looking for 00:15:34 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 00:16:42 c|mell: i was just wondering about climacs earlier today too :P 00:17:45 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:30 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 00:23:50 -!- qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:45 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:27:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:56 Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 00:30:14 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31:19 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:16 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:33:07 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-72-52.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 JohnnyL [excellent_@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:10 http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg 00:35:09 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-105.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:40:14 -!- enthymene [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-178.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:41:18 -!- Phoodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:43:34 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-12111.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:40 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:59 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-72-52.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:51:09 are there many lisp compilers that optimize (mapcar #'list '(1 2 3)) as a constant ((1) (2) (3)) ? 00:51:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:51:46 but it's not a constant 00:52:04 right it beats agaisnt the symbol-function of 'list 00:52:15 thats why i am asking 00:52:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 00:52:31 I mean the result of the form 00:52:49 <_3b> it needs to make a new list every call 00:52:51 oh yeah true .. will to the cons 00:52:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:53:01 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:06 <_3b> (it can assume CL:LIST always does what the spec says it does though) 00:53:24 oh indeed 00:54:04 is there anyone in here familar with lispworks capi? 00:54:52 PuffTheMagic_: doesn't seem too likely. the lispworks mailing list is fantastic though. 00:54:57 actually i had a had intended to ask slightly differnt question.. but _3b you answered 00:55:28 Xach: yeah im on that, i just figured I'd check here first 00:55:49 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-672.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 00:56:02 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:07 more about (funcall #'list ...) so list is going to operate as expected.. do compilers make that assumption? 00:57:17 so actually i guess i wonder what will be the best infernce as to whever the impl of any symbol is final 00:57:18 dmiles: 11.1.2.1.2 helps out compilers in that regard 00:57:33 kk .. looks 00:57:56 <_3b> dmiles: sbcl seems to inline both the mapcar and the list call 00:58:09 dmiles: SBCL appears to have a source-transform to turn (LIST X) into (CONS X NIL) 01:02:01 11.1.2.1.2 - nice basicaly i can get away with trying to inline them to hit their trampoines 01:02:18 well doucment makes me feel safer ;) 01:03:27 what graphics toolkit do people use most with CL? 01:03:51 PuffTheMagic_: my impression is that people who make GUIs to sell use CAPI 01:03:55 mostly. 01:04:05 adeht: godd well also that level of source-transform i guess implies defiantely some final impl 01:04:08 what about not to sell 01:04:15 there have to be some oss people here 01:05:17 _3b: good i might be safe to try that myself.. my goal is with some usercode not to hit symbol-functions.. but go straght to the method 01:05:33 the open source Lisp applications with a GUI that I have seen usually used CLIM 01:05:44 McCLIM, that is. 01:07:13 PuffTheMagic_: I haven't seen many open source GUI lisp programs that have much polish. 01:09:27 sorry for all these questions, i just started writing lisp, and i am liking it, but a lot of the things I usually write need guis and it really kills me to have to use capi 01:11:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:05 there are several GUI libraries that are maintained and usable 01:11:13 i wonder if some people reuse bits and peices of xemacs from lisp 01:11:36 without programing in elisp though 01:12:04 adeht: any recommendations besides McCLIM 01:12:15 just trying to get a feel of whats out there 01:12:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:10 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.143] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:13:48 another way .. if i really had to do it today.. i might use Swing wysiwyg.. and use abcl's jcalls 01:14:09 ABCL lisp that is 01:14:30 to PuffTheMagic_ 01:14:41 well I played with some, but didn't have a need for a big complex GUI in Lisp yet.. 01:15:35 ehats cute about swing_abcl is that its portable on all platfomrs.. just not acrossed all CL impls 01:15:41 i've done gtk in C so the gtk bindings are a possibility... enlightenment bindings would be nice too 01:15:51 PuffTheMagic: I'd look into cl-smoke or cl-gtk2 for completeness 01:16:10 cl-smoke is the qt4 bindings right 01:17:37 yeah, there was also commonqt for that 01:18:15 McCLIM looks sorta cool for some things 01:19:16 but sorta 1980's ish 01:19:48 well CLIM comes with its own philosophy and attitude ;0 01:21:07 it think im gonna have to go with cl-gtk2, im not in the mood to learn qt right now 01:22:08 also I'm surprised that the last "release" is from 2008-04-23.. though it's active of course 01:23:16 some people also like ltk 01:23:39 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-198.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:59 i've never been a tk fan 01:28:29 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-38-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:29 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:28:41 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:24 spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-sdztvcofijjbzsrr] has joined #lisp 01:29:53 Xach: think I would be able to get buildapp to make a cl-gtk2 app? 01:29:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.71.191] has joined #lisp 01:30:15 -!- rogue [rogue@unaffiliated/rogue] has left #lisp 01:30:18 cause that would be awesome 01:33:22 dunno 01:33:34 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:33:34 don't see why not 01:36:45 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-162-110.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- tmitt [seg@wizardly.us] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:36:58 -!- ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:37:35 -!- konr [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:26 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:38:27 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-162-110.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 tmitt [seg@wizardly.us] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has joined #lisp 01:38:41 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:38:54 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:30 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:40:38 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:41:04 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:49:54 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:50:42 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 01:50:45 Hi, I'm trying to parse php serialized data using cl, I don't seem to see any existing libraries that do this, is this correct? 01:51:06 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:29 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-21-67-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.71.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:09 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:24 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 01:53:35 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:53:36 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:53:51 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 01:53:52 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:54:07 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 01:54:08 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:54:26 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 01:54:28 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:54:46 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has joined #lisp 01:55:00 -!- nickjd [~76ec550a@gateway/web/freenode/x-ibgabjgkhbvjqygm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:04 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.176.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:14 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 01:56:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 01:56:14 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:57:27 enthymene` [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:59 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:58:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483E4AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:06:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:27 syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:33 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:10 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:10:03 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:13:46 -!- JohnnyL [excellent_@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 02:18:24 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 02:18:28 nixeagle: i haven't heard about something like that. is the serialization format documented? 02:18:50 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:19:11 Xach http://php.net/manual/en/function.serialize.php 02:19:17 basically undoing that 02:19:18 -!- enthymene` [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:29 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-672.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:05 nixeagle: hmm, i'm still curious. 02:21:15 Xach: any time a php programmer calls serialize(...) it dumps out a string which they can shove in a file or whatever. Php programmers can then call unserialize to undo it. (think print/read for lisp.. not as advanced afaik). I just want to undo it to get the data into lisp. 02:21:37 nixeagle: Is the serialization format documented? 02:22:20 Xach: one moment, it has to be documented somewhere ^-^. This is not some library, its built into the php language itself :S 02:22:31 a:2:{i:0;s:4:"pleh";i:1;R:1;} 02:22:35 thats a full one 02:25:00 *_3b* wonders which php nixeagle uses if 'built into language' implies 'must be documented' :p 02:25:19 _3b: I don't use it, I'm just hoping ;) 02:25:44 maybe they have a nice ANSI specification hiding somewhere ;) 02:28:46 owch 3b, I'd like to smash your crystal ball. Too predictive. Xach from what I'm seeing from a little poking, the specification is the source code. 02:29:13 hi, in SBCL, can a string containing source code be converted to a function? for example, if there is a string such as "(+ n 1 2)", how can it be converted to a function equivalent to one defined by (defun function (n) (+ n 1 2)) ? 02:29:14 nice 02:29:23 spcartman: (read-from-string ...) 02:29:42 spcartman: mmm no not quite! 02:29:49 <_3b> spcartman: not having a list of variables it expects makes it harder 02:29:51 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 02:30:07 yea, read-from-string doesnt seem to work 02:30:15 spcartman: what is n? 02:30:22 just a variable 02:30:33 it can be anything 02:30:52 how do you expect to extrapolate that (+ n 1 2) means (defun (n) (+ n 1 2)) 02:31:02 <_3b> you will need a code walker of some sort to find variables, and some way to decide which are intended to be arguments or free variables/specials 02:31:17 spcartman: why do you want to do that? 02:31:48 nixeagle: it was just an example, the string doesnt determine the function 02:31:59 spcartman: ok, what is the real input then? 02:32:14 Xach: this is for an emulator im thinking about 02:33:00 <_3b> if you don't need to detect arguments, then something like (coerce `(lambda () ,(read-from-string "...)) 'function) might do some of what you want 02:33:02 spcartman: think harder! 02:33:33 _3b, no way to know that "n" is an arg though :S 02:33:58 which is why I think spcartman knows more info about the input then he initially gave us ;) 02:34:32 <_3b> nixeagle: you could just assume all free vars are args (arg order on the other hand... ) 02:34:51 well assume variable names are known 02:35:10 spcartman: you only ever get 1 variable? 02:35:21 <_3b> then add a ,@list-of-args to the form i listed 02:35:22 (per function?) 02:35:40 well maybe more, like 2 or 3 02:35:55 spcartman: what 3b said makes sense to me if you know the names 02:36:23 spcartman: if that is not what you want, or what you think... we need more context. 02:36:35 <_3b> and if you actually need the full behavior of defun at runtime, compile or (setf fdefinition) might help 02:36:45 <_3b> or was it (setf symbol-function) ? 02:36:52 *_3b* doesn't do that very often 02:36:53 symbol-function 02:37:23 Phoodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:24 ok will try symbol-function 02:38:36 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:39:04 Xach: I'm going to see if I can't hack something up to do simple unserializing, most every other language has a lib to serialize and unserialize php serialization format. 02:40:31 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:40 <_3b> or i suppose there is always (eval '(defun , ...)) :p 02:40:54 <_3b> s/'/`/ 02:41:29 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:42:22 *_3b* suspects either method of creating actual named functions from strings is a bad sign though 02:43:11 agreed, but with no context who knows ;) 02:43:11 <_3b> seems like you would be better off either doing it at compile time, or maintaining your own environment 02:44:35 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:10 well its just something im thinking about 02:45:25 nixeagle and 3b: thanks for help 02:45:44 welcome :) 02:46:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gciufaqoezutaaqv] has joined #lisp 02:47:39 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:25 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:18 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:41 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 02:54:52 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has left #lisp 02:55:29 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:44 spcartman, why does it have to be from a string? It's nicer to just use quoted lisp expressions which you can actually work with (code=data), and you probably don't want to do it at runtime unless you really have to (performance costs), but if you really want to do it, here's one example: (funcall (compile nil (read-from-string "(lambda (n) (+ n 1 2))")) 4) ;=> 7 02:57:04 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:00:10 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 03:02:49 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:05:11 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:30 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:16 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:15 -!- anton_v [~Miranda@93.125.49.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:09 Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:22 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:27:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:12 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:30:18 ljames: expressions that will be run are unknown before runtime, thats why it has to be from a string. the function thats been compiled, (lambda (n) (+ n 1 2)) in your code, can it be preserved as a variable? so if the variable is function-name, i need to be able to do (function-name 4) => 7, (function-name 10) => 13, etc 03:31:04 <_3b> spcartman: if you store the function in a variable, use funcall or apply to call it 03:31:05 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:51 ok that works 03:37:51 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:38:04 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:51 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:43:56 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:50:45 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:51:06 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 03:52:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:23 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:46 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:47 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.182.42] has left #lisp 04:11:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:15:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:02 konr [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 04:19:45 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:49 Good morning! 04:24:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:07 Its still dark out there :) 04:32:53 Indeed. 04:33:13 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:34:39 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:41:06 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:47:09 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:55:54 holycow [~new@64.151.208.2] has joined #lisp 04:56:24 ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 04:58:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:59:19 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:46 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:10 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 05:01:03 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:02:04 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:45 -!- ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:59 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:06:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 05:06:58 konr` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 05:08:17 Xach: pinging you since you were interested, I've managed to get a set of read-table macros to handle unserializing the php format. (well for 3 out of the 7 cases, but the other 4 should be fairly simple... just more functions). I'm hoping with luck to release something but I'd think I would need to be able to serialize back. 05:08:28 -!- konr [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:10:58 (test-read "a:4:{i:0;s:4:\"pleh\";i:1}") --> (0 "pleh" 1) 05:13:04 So, if you write (say) three docstrings for some CL feature every morning, it will take you around a year to finish. 05:13:31 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:46 beach: you mean standard CL symbols? 05:14:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:16:40 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:16:45 konr`` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 05:21:44 Yeah. 05:23:30 beach: they are already documented in the ANSI spec, plus background (sometimes not wholly accurate) in cltl2. 05:23:44 Or am I missing something? 05:24:02 nixeagle: I don't think so. But you can't convert those to docstrings. 05:24:16 oh you mean for like sbcl? 05:24:28 for example 05:29:21 -!- konr`` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.234] has joined #lisp 05:41:47 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:11 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-205-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:45:16 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:47:23 So the hyperspec doesn't say that NTH signals an error when N is not a nonnegative integer, but it says that (nth N list) is equivalent to (car (nthcdr N list)) and it says that nthcdr signals a type-error when given an N which is not a nonnegative integer. 05:47:25 -!- randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:12 randa [~arand@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 05:53:36 beach: sure but what would you expect NTH to do with a negative number? 05:53:44 alppo [~alppo@97-122-244-47.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:46 nixeagle: Sometimes according to the spec, implementations are not required to detect error situations. 05:55:34 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 05:57:23 beach: right, so your idea of docstrings is a condensed ansi spec? 05:57:54 nixeagle: I suppose. Would there be other reasonable ideas? 05:58:03 these would (to be of use to everyone... have to be external to any one implentation) 05:58:43 nixeagle: Yes, there could be docstrings that are implementation specific, in that they specify something left unspecified in the standard. 05:58:49 I messed that up ;), they have to be external to any one implentation if it would be expected for everyone to pick it up ;) 05:58:58 beach: yeah but I'm thinking of the general case 05:59:20 I am pretty sure the vast majority of docstrings could be implementation-independent. 05:59:27 exactly 06:00:04 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:00:30 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-174-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:06 btw I have everything but php objects covered with my unserialize read-table macros :D 06:01:11 (test-read "a:2:{i:0;s:4:\"pleh\";i:1;b:0;b:1;}") --> (0 "pleh" 1 NIL T) 06:02:47 -!- mooglenorph [~marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:25 beach: that sounds like a project that needs to be started outside of any implementation and just let people add implementation details as they feel appropriate. It would probably be best done as part of some project website with a simple database allowing editing of primary docstring and implementation specific details after it, almost like a wiki but I'm not sure how conductive that would be to machine imports by implementations (if 06:04:25 they wanted to go that route). 06:05:37 blech I need to scare up some php programmer to explain to me how they serialize objects because its just weird and undocumented of course. 06:05:56 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:26 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:08:47 sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 06:16:17 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:21 Axius [~hi@92.82.74.242] has joined #lisp 06:22:38 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 06:29:16 PHP programmer? 06:31:56 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-21-67-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 06:33:46 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:49:45 -!- alppo [~alppo@97-122-244-47.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:55:17 adu: found one :), needed to see what a serialized php object looked like :P 06:55:26 (so I can unserialize it in common lisp) 07:03:23 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:03:28 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:48 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04:44 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:06:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:08:20 wow 07:09:05 DukeOfMilan [~kevin@unaffiliated/dukeofmilan] has joined #lisp 07:09:24 if i were to design a serialization format, it would probably make it JSON without spaces 07:09:52 adu: yeah, not my choice though :( 07:10:26 I'll release this as a free (BSD or MIT) lib so others won't have to do it as it does not seem to be done yet (I looked) 07:11:00 oh, and I would add one thing to it 07:11:32 ! "type" "value" (borrowed from YAML) 07:11:50 Hun [~hun@95-90-181-198-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:12:15 adu: oh thats too fancy, I get a:2:{s:4:"four";b:1;} 07:12:23 or maybe !"value" 07:12:24 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:12:27 -!- Wraithan [~wraithan@li76-252.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 07:12:36 b:1; is true btw ;) 07:12:41 eg t 07:12:44 i guessed as much 07:13:53 -!- DukeOfMilan [~kevin@unaffiliated/dukeofmilan] has left #lisp 07:13:53 YAML is very odd, like how x: 2 is a name-value pair, and x:2 is a string 07:14:25 whoa weird. I have not had the joy of messing with yaml. I do love cl-json though :) 07:14:55 the token for pairs is ': ' not ':' 07:15:12 ooh nice minor gotcha! 07:15:37 it allows you to have colons in key-names, like xml:lang: en 07:17:27 the only thing I don't like about YAML is references (& and *) 07:17:27 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:20:08 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:32 adu: interesting, I'll check it out later if I ever find something that needs yaml 07:20:55 I've been in a webapi library writing mood lately. 07:21:11 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.200] has joined #lisp 07:22:12 pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 07:23:17 i think the entire web should have been based on JSON 07:23:44 well its written in 90 different haphazard formats instead. 07:24:05 wow 07:24:11 i can only think of 12 07:24:34 konr [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 07:25:11 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:26:04 adu: I'm exaggerating ;). But depending on what you count "the web" to be, you have irc, aol, msn, html, xml, xhtml, json, yson, usenet, mail... So I might be undershooting by a fair amount. 07:26:19 kingdork2 [~dork@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:39 plus all the protocols, like TCP and DNS 07:26:46 yep! 07:27:02 udp too 07:28:24 konr` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 07:30:12 -!- konr [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:30:17 anyone heard of anyone doing work with pivot tables in lisp? 07:36:11 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 07:36:46 -!- kajic [~kajic@nl118-171-109.student.uu.se] has quit [Quit: kajic] 07:37:44 aerique [~euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:41:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:42:04 kajic [~kajic@nl118-171-109.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 07:42:33 kingdork2: What is a pivot table? 07:45:54 nixeagle: is that by chance the same as netstrings? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netstrings 07:46:12 it's microsoft speak for aggregation 07:46:22 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 kingdork2: it's trivial. just do it. 07:46:50 adu: if you mean php's serialization format, no not really 07:47:19 kingdork2: (push new-item (gethash key table nil)) in a loop pretty much does it 07:47:36 O:4:"book":2:{s:5:"title";s:10:"confusions";s:6:"author";s:8:"nixeagle";} 07:47:44 that is the php object "book" 07:50:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-26-179.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:52:11 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-8-141.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:42 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:56:19 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:54 good morning 08:03:57 hello mvilleneuve 08:04:07 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: work] 08:05:57 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:39 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:04 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 08:10:08 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:11:41 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:12:09 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:14 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:50 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:14:46 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16:00 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:17:22 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.74.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17:49 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:20:58 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:21:52 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:22:26 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 08:24:09 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:25:04 -!- kajic [~kajic@nl118-171-109.student.uu.se] has quit [Quit: kajic] 08:26:32 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:56 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:36:14 -!- Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:37:53 -!- cmeme [~cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:39:46 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:40:16 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:41:48 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 08:42:59 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:46:46 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 08:47:08 stassats`: ok 08:47:20 you can reproduce? 08:48:37 Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:28 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:31 -!- l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106002129a187e9.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:47 I think I've seen it in past 08:54:02 That "ok" was meant that I'll look at the issue after I got some coffee :-) 08:54:30 i shouldn't have told, now i want to hunt it myself 08:55:31 I added the all-encodings line to (external-format) in swank-ecl.lisp relatively recently 08:55:33 demmeln [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has joined #lisp 08:55:42 Try to comment it out and see if it works 08:55:49 ah no wait 08:55:56 Evet_ [~Evet@85.106.156.50] has joined #lisp 08:56:00 I also changed the alist to have :latin-1 in front of it 08:56:45 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 08:56:49 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:57:00 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:57:01 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:11 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:59:41 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:01:43 konr`` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 09:02:58 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:03:26 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:05:29 antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:18 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:25 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 09:07:45 -!- Evet_ is now known as Evet 09:07:49 -!- Evet [~Evet@85.106.156.50] has quit [Changing host] 09:07:49 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 09:08:04 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:08:13 -!- demmeln [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has left #lisp 09:10:54 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:11:01 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 09:18:16 nostoi [~nostoi@212.Red-79-152-62.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:58 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:25 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan_ 09:22:51 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:23:36 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@212.Red-79-152-62.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:24:51 stassats`: I'm working on swank.lisp making it easier to debug something like that in future 09:28:44 -!- freiksenet1 [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:16 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:30:18 morning 09:31:08 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-nrdkwxrxzfickwam] has joined #lisp 09:31:09 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:32:06 tcr, re "during compile-time-too processing"... now when i C-cC-c something that ends up in a symbol conflict at compile-time... i don't get the debugger with restarts anymore. resolving these is quite cumbersome compared to just selecting a restart in the past... 09:32:20 do you have anything handy for this situation? 09:33:33 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:33:51 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 09:34:27 Use C-M-x but yes that's annoying and it ought to be fixed (sorry about that) 09:36:44 Is there any implementation which does not use symbols and conses for external-formats? 09:38:08 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 dash_ [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:58 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:46 -!- Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:42:02 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.16.117.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 09:42:58 -!- borism [~boris@213-35-234-24-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:45:54 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:46:51 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:46 stassats`: Ok if you update to HEAD, coding-system and external-format will be included in the output of connection-info (which, as you probably know, can be seen by switching to *slime-events*) 09:48:43 alright, though in this case connection-info isn't returned 09:49:52 hrm, oh ok 09:53:19 damn, again one of this moments, when you don't see what possibly you're doing wrong, and it the end it will something painfully obvious 09:55:32 pbusser [~pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:55:37 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-9-64.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:39 Moin moin! 09:55:45 If only compilation wasn't so slow :-) It would be benefital for ECL if Slime used ASDF 09:56:31 so it would recompile only what was changed? 09:57:14 yup 09:59:37 ;; encoding: iso-latin-1-unix vs. (UCS-2 LF) 10:01:42 right bug in ECL 10:02:49 reynard [~alan@119.237.171.225] has joined #lisp 10:06:38 -!- ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:51 finally, i came up with a test-case not involving slime 10:11:25 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:12:04 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:03 hm C-c C-c results in an ugly error 10:15:09 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:22:38 qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has joined #lisp 10:23:05 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:23:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:28:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:11 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:33:10 -!- holycow [~new@64.151.208.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:42 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:37:07 -!- qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:16 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:49:11 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has joined #lisp 10:49:30 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:35 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 10:52:34 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:35 abstortedminds [~Adium@unaffiliated/abstortedminds] has joined #lisp 10:56:27 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:00:29 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 11:00:41 -!- Guest48628 [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:07:09 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:11:31 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:15:17 -!- devslash1ull [~james@202.3.37.242] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:17:26 anyone know whether Allegro's GC is conservative? I can't seem to find that information in their documentation. 11:20:15 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:05 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 -!- reynard [~alan@119.237.171.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:59 <_8david> I'd be surprised if it was conservative. 11:26:11 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-38-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 11:26:33 -!- abstortedminds [~Adium@unaffiliated/abstortedminds] has left #lisp 11:27:16 <_8david> Duane has spoken strongly against conservatism in GC for Lisp on cll. And their FFI/threading interaction expressly doesn't offer any SBCL-like pinning features. 11:29:02 -!- spcartman [~db6ef68f@gateway/web/freenode/x-sdztvcofijjbzsrr] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:33:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gciufaqoezutaaqv] has left #lisp 11:38:19 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:14 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:42:16 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:46:40 luis pasted "allegro finalizer weirdness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96092 11:46:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DAB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:06 I feel like I'm missing something obvious. 11:47:13 _8david: any ideas? 11:48:21 <_8david> WFM 11:48:29 ah, really? Interesting. 11:49:30 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:49:53 <_8david> actually, was I did was to type *** twice between the scheduling and the first GC call. 11:50:08 <_8david> If I leave that out, it doesn't work for me either (assuming this isn't random behaviour). 11:50:15 luis: How many history entries does ACL keep? 11:50:36 <_8david> ACL doesn't keep any history results beyong * ** ***, but perhaps slime does. 11:51:02 <_8david> (progn ... nil) around the scheduling also works 11:51:21 Well, anyway, you probably want to make sure the defparameter appears somewhere it won't get caught by something 11:51:27 _8david: like that.. 11:56:14 Ah, cool. Thanks. Didn't notice the finalizer was returning a reference to the cons. 11:56:57 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-136.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:58:30 slime's presentation are stored in a weak hashtable, fwiw 11:58:37 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:58:37 in case you wonder 11:59:16 so in your example, clearing *,**,*** should be enough I guess :-) 11:59:27 Hay guys, is CLISP meant to escape "fo\\o" as fo\\o? I thought it was meant to do fo\o. 12:00:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:00:26 there're / // //, too 12:01:07 kvsari: (string= "\A" "A") 12:01:16 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 tcr: good to know, thanks. 12:01:27 kvsari: (values (length "\A") (length "\\A")) 12:01:46 ok, lemme try 12:01:59 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:12 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 12:02:22 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 12:02:46 clhs " 12:02:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_de.htm 12:02:57 *kvsari* is new to lisp 12:03:56 \ is an escape character in strings, so you can write "Hello \"World\"!", to get an actual backslash you have of course escape the escape character, hence "\\" 12:04:29 I was just confused that if you did escape a character it showed two backslashes instead of one 12:05:15 "\\" in my experience showed up as "\", but here it shows up as "\\" anyways yet the length is 1? 12:05:40 Yes that happens because the READable print-representation is printed at the REPL 12:06:09 Try (princ "foo\\bar") vs. (prin1 "foo\\bar") 12:07:09 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:22 I see, thanks tcr. 12:08:14 luis annotated #96092 "how about this one?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96092#1 12:14:57 I suppose some way of getting all the references to an object would be useful in debugging this sort of stuff. 12:17:10 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:20:24 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-nrdkwxrxzfickwam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:20 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:24:14 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:26:06 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 12:27:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:11 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@141.76.49.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:26 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:33:13 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:34:00 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 12:34:29 ps [~ps@cust.dyn.95-152-117-52.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #lisp 12:37:34 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:40:30 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:07 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:38 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:47:52 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-136.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:38 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:16 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:31 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-249-169.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 12:57:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:02 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:59:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:04 what is the best lisp equiv of doxygen/javadocs? 13:07:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:27 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:01 luis: the dwim guys have something like that for SBCL 13:12:21 luis, see http://dwim.hu/file/hu.dwim.debug/source/path-to-root.lisp 13:12:27 or the project hu.dwim.debug 13:18:25 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:48 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:18:49 <_8david> PuffTheMagic_: I kind of like atdoc, but that's probably because I wrote it. 13:18:55 <_8david> Note that JavaDoc-style references aren't very popular in the lisp world, even though it has the docstring concept built in. 13:18:56 <_8david> Another very interesting approach is texinfo-docstrings, which lets you write documentation in texinfo, and then pulls in docstrings in the places where you're asking for it. 13:19:21 *_8davidi dont mean i want javadoc-style 13:19:28 i just want to document my project 13:19:37 and i dont know what lisp has 13:19:39 besides albert 13:19:49 _8david: got a link for atdoc? 13:20:15 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-136.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:20:35 <_8david> My overall suggestion is take a look at how Edi Weitz and Xach document their libraries. 13:20:46 unicode [~user@95.214.86.65] has joined #lisp 13:21:08 *PuffTheMagic_* takes a look at buildapp 13:21:40 <_8david> As for atdoc, http://www.lichteblau.com/atdoc/example/single-page/index.html has an example 13:23:47 levente_meszaros, pkhuong: yeah, I know sbcl offers that sort of introspection. I'm using Allegro, unfortunately. 13:24:15 _8david: They do it by hand 13:26:12 excl::get-objects might be almost what I want 13:26:32 luis, a commercial lisp does not have a PATH-TO-ROOT like thing? how do they hunt down memory leaks then? 13:26:47 levente_meszaros: maybe it does. I don't know. 13:28:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:29:55 Allegro's documentation is not particularly well organized. 13:30:40 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:33 I found their documentation of very high quality. I use google and site:franz.lisp for finding 13:31:44 tcr: really? 13:31:45 site:franz.com 13:32:16 Given that their users do not have access to source, they have to document a lot 13:32:18 To me the organization feels so random. 13:32:24 Just use google 13:33:06 Why bother organising things? Just use Google! :) 13:33:31 A number of prominent Microsoft people used to recommend just using Google for MSDN, because its internal organisation is so bad 13:35:39 hahaha 13:35:55 I assume that the party line is now Bing, thogh 13:37:30 But Tim Berners-Lee told us hypertext solved all that... 13:39:05 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.16.117.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:41:11 documentation of REMOVE-IF: "Return a copy of sequence with elements not satisfying PREDICATE removed" 13:41:24 isn't that simply "Return a copy of sequence with elements satisfying PREDICATE" 13:41:36 no 13:41:44 that's remove-if-not 13:41:50 er I meant remove-if-not 13:41:55 the rest is the same 13:42:23 see, how confusing this double negation is? 13:42:34 at least to me 13:43:08 not removed => preserved 13:43:45 tcr, I know what the words mean 13:43:57 but the documentation could be written without the double negation 13:44:04 levente_meszaros: probably, the technical writer took the article for REMOVE-IF, and added a 'not' 13:44:12 It's written this way to show how it relates to remove-if etc 13:44:37 It could have been clarified with an "i.e." subclause :-) 13:45:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-136.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:48:50 and further driven home with a Klingon translation 13:48:50 Blkt [~user@93-33-140-171.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:49:45 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-672.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.22] has joined #lisp 13:51:51 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 13:56:50 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:57:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:45 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066168.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 14:00:10 leo2007 pasted "kkk" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96098 14:00:26 sorry, that was a test. 14:01:34 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: restart emacs] 14:02:07 TR2N [email@89-180-235-168.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:09:52 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:11:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:14:43 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:18:05 p8m [~dmm@mattli.name] has joined #lisp 14:18:31 ryepup [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066168.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:17 tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:55 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-245-55.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:25:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:26:51 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:57 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:28:37 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:56 Axius [~hi@92.84.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:34:00 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.22.190] has quit [Client Quit] 14:34:45 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@195.250.176.42] has joined #lisp 14:35:05 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:36:36 Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:49 LiamH1 [~none@132.250.248.92] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:42:35 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:08 levente_meszaros: which other Lisps have path-to-root-like functionality? 14:46:00 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-245-55.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:27 lukego [~lukegorri@212.112.174.86] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 -!- Phoodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:40 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:52:51 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has left #lisp 14:52:54 I don't know, but I would expect to get it for as much as the Allegro guys ask for 14:53:40 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:53:57 guntantal [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:54:23 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:54:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:54:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@195.250.176.42] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:57:24 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A968.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:37 -!- guntantal [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:23 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:02:45 levente_meszaros: heh. I'll try to contact their support team. :) 15:03:17 it'd probably be fairly easy to code a brute force solution in sbcl 15:03:32 wouldn't be quick of course :) 15:04:27 such tools are faily easy to write compared to writing the allocator/GC they are supposed to work on top of. for anyone who has written the GC in question, that is :) 15:04:46 what is path-to-root useful for? 15:04:59 I already provided an impl for SBCL, see above 15:05:37 Adlai: debugging memory leaks 15:06:03 Adlai, given an object returns reference pathes to one or more "root" objects 15:09:29 how does that function help you, though? If you have an argument to pass to it, then don't you already know how it's reached? 15:09:47 Axius [~hi@92.84.22.190] has joined #lisp 15:10:55 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 Adlai: well, you want to know what /other/ references exist 15:11:36 maybe paths-to-root would be more useful, then? 15:12:33 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:36 levente_meszaros, dwim.hu isn't loading in Chromium 15:13:53 I get the "It takes suspiciously long to load the page" message 15:14:45 Adlai, weird, I use chromium too, what URL is that? 15:15:21 levente_meszaros, http://dwim.hu/ and http://dwim.hu/file/hu.dwim.debug/source/path-to-root.lisp are both failing for me 15:15:25 haven't tried any others 15:15:37 ahh it works now. weird >:( 15:15:53 oops, sorry I was in the middle of a rebuild 15:16:02 and forgot to restart the server :) 15:16:18 ok :) 15:16:32 -!- Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:42 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:19:22 levente_meszaros, shouldn't #'default-root-object-p return NIL on gensyms? 15:19:31 (and other uninterned symbols) 15:19:47 I guess that's difficult to determine 15:20:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:20:45 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.22.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:22:43 Adlai, probably 15:22:47 hi all, can someone help me with a dumb problem with emacs/tramp/slime? after connecting to the remote machine running lisp, in the local emacs - i get the message "Connected. Take this REPL, brother, and may it serve you well.", but no repl gets open in slime... 15:23:11 ps: are you using the slime-repl contrib? 15:23:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.93.1] 15:23:42 the repl was made a contrib a while ago. if you're loading slime like (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) it should load 15:23:56 no idea - i just open emacs and then M-x slime-connect 15:24:20 do you get a REPL if you use slime locally? 15:24:33 yes - locally everything works 15:25:01 but - i'm no slime/emacs-guru.. 15:25:26 Could you paste *slime-events*? 15:25:26 fuchs - ty - will try that 15:26:05 (:emacs-rex 15:26:05 (swank:connection-info) 15:26:06 nil t 1) 15:26:06 (:indentation-update 15:26:06 (("define-source-context" . 2) 15:26:06 ("with-locked-hash-table" . 1) 15:26:06 ("with-timeout" . 1) 15:26:06 -!- ps [~ps@cust.dyn.95-152-117-52.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:26:10 ps [~ps@cust.dyn.95-152-117-52.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #lisp 15:26:21 that was unlucky - sorry :) 15:27:06 lisppaste: url 15:27:06 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 15:27:32 that's everything? 15:27:46 oh sorry 15:27:50 didn't scroll don 15:27:51 down 15:28:09 Adlai pasted "Is this interned?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96104 15:28:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.88.204] has joined #lisp 15:28:23 ps pasted "slime log" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96105 15:28:59 ty for the link! 15:29:11 levente_meszaros, easier said than done, though... 15:29:11 now it should be there 15:30:22 Yes you have to use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 15:30:26 for remote slime 15:31:15 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 15:32:07 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:32:19 antifuchs, now it works - i had the setup only when invoking a local lisp... ty really a lot! 15:32:29 great, you're welcome 15:32:43 Adlai, I don't exactly know what you want to say, it is an argument that what is considered to be a root object in path-to-root 15:33:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 15:33:23 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:33:33 as long as you can enumerate the referenced objects from a referencing object you are done 15:33:51 levente_meszaros, I'm just wondering out loud 15:33:56 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 maybe it could have been called something else, it is just simply reversing the structure of references in a hashtable, so one can search through it 15:35:27 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 and also provides some search functions, did help to hunt down 2 memory leaks in a server app 15:36:22 I found some objects hanging around, passed in and got a few pathes 15:36:42 some of which were useless, because of the REPL, etc. but some had to be cut 15:37:12 there might be corner cases like the one you describe though 15:37:18 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:37:32 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:27 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 stassats`: here? 15:39:52 yep 15:40:24 With this grouping stuff, does the sorting really compose? 15:40:38 I mean you can now have both by-inheritance and alphabetically be enabled 15:42:06 it does compose, you can have sub-groups sorted alphabetically 15:42:35 ok cool 15:44:31 perhaps super-class names should be sorted accordingly too 15:45:50 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 15:46:30 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.88.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:38 -!- aerique [~euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:49:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:02 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:50:12 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:09 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 15:51:37 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 15:54:45 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:56:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:12 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:57:53 prxq [~mommer@f051168006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:56 smanek [~smanek@rrcs-24-213-164-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:28 hi 16:00:55 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:14 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:54 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 16:02:05 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:24 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 16:03:31 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:03:39 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:03:48 event [event@93.102.83.127.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #lisp 16:05:07 -!- event [event@93.102.83.127.rev.optimus.pt] has left #lisp 16:09:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:48 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:14:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:27 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:56 HexRex [~Hex_Rex@c-24-245-20-150.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:19 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:23 nickjd [~76ec881c@gateway/web/freenode/x-odoipldhxzfqqhzp] has joined #lisp 16:18:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:45 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:21:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:21:53 -!- HexRex [~Hex_Rex@c-24-245-20-150.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:01 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:16 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-21-67-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:19 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:32:34 -!- LiamH1 [~none@132.250.248.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:37:17 stassats`: on openmcl-devel, leo's posting 16:37:31 look at slime-test.el: (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/local/bin/ccl64 -K utf-8") 16:38:12 will that actually DTRT? I would have expected one has to do '("/usr/local/bin/ccl64" "-K" "utf8")? 16:38:27 let me test 16:39:00 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:05 (:coding-system "iso-latin-1-unix" :external-format "#") 16:39:26 lemonade` [~00@pool-74-96-73-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:29 Hah! yay that's the debugging aid I added and it's useful! 16:39:51 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:39:54 does the right thing here 16:40:03 how did you learn lambda calculus? 16:40:09 lemonade`: i didn't 16:40:19 stassats`: anybody 16:40:38 lemonade`: banged my head against it (and a couple of intro papers) until I understood that it's not a huge deal with lisp (-: 16:40:38 I also didn't. 16:40:48 lemonade`, my cousin claims to have learned the lambda calculus in one 4-hour cram session before his final exam, and forgotten it promptly thereafter 16:41:04 sounds about right 16:41:16 antifuchs: I've been doing the first... maybe I'll do the second 16:42:28 I read the wikipedia entry. 16:43:12 minion, how did you learn the lambda calculus? 16:43:12 yes, i learn the lambda calculus 16:43:31 minion, tell lemonade` about lambda calculus 16:43:31 lemonade`: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 16:43:36 you see, lambda calculus is no substitute for proper grammar (: 16:43:40 minion: sure. 16:43:40 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 28 seconds is too many. 16:43:49 what is there much to learn? some basic definitions, a few theorems, and that's it, no? 16:44:00 that is it. 16:44:21 the next part is how it relates to anything that's actually useful (: 16:44:31 tcr: so, you can reproduce leo2007 test? because i can't 16:44:41 Just replied 16:44:50 tcr: thanks 16:44:50 prxq: it's not the amount so much as where. 16:45:03 lemonade`: ah 16:45:07 just noticed 16:45:10 stassats`: No need for testing, the logging output's enough to reason about it! 16:45:31 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 16:46:31 -!- Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:11 lemonade`: the wikipedia entry has what looks like a useful list of "further reading" links 16:48:31 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75588e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:21 slime-connect could probably check 16:50:42 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@212.112.174.86] has quit [Quit: lukego] 16:50:55 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:51:16 I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to look at the slime-init part of slime :-) 16:53:04 it's abstracted too much 16:53:05 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:21 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-55-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:54:34 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:49 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:55:42 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:55:53 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-qicelgzwvqiurqgj] has joined #lisp 16:56:07 qamikaz [~alper@88.243.247.136] has joined #lisp 16:58:09 Ifur [~osm@73.84-48-93.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:41 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:01:33 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-140-171.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:44 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:09 ams [~ams@m83-185-120-239.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:10 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:07:46 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:22 skeptical_p [~rrr@109.66.46.29] has joined #lisp 17:08:27 I wonder how an utf8 encoded string containing a #\) can result in a string not having a #\) in latin-1 17:08:30 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:17 hm it may happen to result in "\\)" or something like that explaining the end-of-file error 17:10:13 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:10:17 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:39 levente_meszaros: bah, who needs fancy tools like path-to-root? Real men fix memory leaks with finalizers and random poking around. 17:11:44 Problem solved. Yay! 17:11:53 what was it? 17:11:58 how did you find it? 17:12:14 luis, :) 17:13:18 jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 tcr: well, I'm working with a clos-based state mechanism (used to implement undo and stuff like that) and some objects were getting wrongly referenced in somewhere. Like I said, random poking until the finalizers were triggered was the solution. :) 17:14:50 clos-based state machine means change-class? 17:16:16 *levente_meszaros* reads the funny http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ 17:16:43 levente_meszaros: funny but deep :-) 17:16:57 ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has joined #lisp 17:17:03 levente_meszaros: don't miss yosefk's blog 17:17:09 deep but about c++ 17:17:09 -!- ps [~ps@cust.dyn.95-152-117-52.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:19:56 is there something similar about CL? 17:20:11 -!- freiksenet1 [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:53 levente_meszaros: frankly, I don't think it deserves it 17:21:58 I know a couple of FQAs about CL but never saw a comprehensive collection 17:22:19 at least not to the same degree 17:22:19 prxq, so you think its NIL? ;-) 17:22:28 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 17:22:30 hm? 17:22:31 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:36 I didn't say so 17:23:11 :-) 17:23:48 levente_meszaros: i did not understand what you meant with "prxq, so you think its NIL? ;-)" 17:24:13 prxq, the list of CL FQAs? 17:24:30 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:24:36 ah, no idea. There are a few short ones, I think, some not very structured 17:25:13 "why I dislike CL" kind of ramblings, but not nearly having the structure or size of the c++ fqa. 17:25:24 -!- kingdork2 [~dork@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:47 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 17:27:32 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:15 "why i dislike CL" ramblings by someone who doesn't know a bit about CL are hardly valuable 17:30:16 i'd rather see "how can CL be improved" by someone who knows it thoroughly 17:30:54 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-205-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:30:59 i want to subscribe to that mailing list, too 17:32:53 stassats`: "why I dislike CL" comments by people who know CL exist. E.g. PG's comments, or the ones by lukego. Schemers that know CL also produce them every now and then 17:34:24 but they're schemers, aren't they? 17:36:53 I don't think that most of the C++ FQA was written by C++ lovers :P 17:36:56 stassats`: sure. I disagree with some of the criticisms, which does not mean that they are not legitimate. The lisp-1 vs lisp-2 thing comes to mind, or the nil vs. #f. 17:37:13 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 17:37:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:36 lukego [~lukegorri@c-c725e655.1410-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:38:06 levente_meszaros: yosefk says he liked c++ in the past 17:38:31 what does he like nowadays? 17:39:04 *levente_meszaros* liked C but never C++, I always felt dirty when using it 17:39:07 i haven't figured it out. He knows a bit of lisp, as evidenced by some of his blog posts 17:39:30 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-155-147.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:01 fvides [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has joined #lisp 17:43:48 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 17:43:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-142-222.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:56 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:02 Hello all. 17:48:04 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:44 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:48:58 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.86.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:05 nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:50 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:51:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:53:05 marioxcc [~user@200.77.69.178] has joined #lisp 18:00:56 Blkt [~user@93-33-142-243.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:02:30 dnolen [~dnolen@65.217.189.98] has joined #lisp 18:04:04 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:07:33 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:07:34 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:33 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082D0DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:46 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:11:06 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082ED05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:47 nikodemus: Hello. 18:11:59 hoy 18:13:06 Is bug #309067 still of high importance? 18:14:23 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:41 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 18:14:47 i think so 18:14:49 plz add bug #foo to specbot kthx 18:15:03 but the classiication is fuzzy, so... 18:15:25 Well, the other question is "does it still apply to x86oid darwin?" 18:15:32 nyef: did you see my mail about the darwin side after your changes? 18:15:45 Umm... No, I can't say that I did. 18:16:05 But if it was direct to me, I switched to using a gmail account some time ago. 18:16:49 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:37 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:18:05 Care to summarize? 18:18:33 hm, gmane doesn't have it 18:18:34 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:18:41 i'll resend to you 18:18:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:18:54 alastair.bridgewater at gmail. 18:19:07 nikodemus: nice to see you back 18:19:21 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-55-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:21 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-71-11.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:08 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:09 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:20:09 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:20:20 forwarded 18:20:25 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:30 Did you do the optimized-slot-value bits in PCL? I remember that you worked on that. 18:21:26 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:21:44 what bits? i've done work on them, but i original perumation vector implementation is vintage pcl 18:21:58 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:22:10 ... Single-step trap? 18:22:39 would be cool if the optimization could be defered to be done by the compiler rather than macroexpansion time. I looked at adding slot-read/write/access support for xref 18:22:48 Oh, wow. I'm now even less impressed with the breakpoint machinery than I was before. 18:23:47 tcr: nothing's impossible... but the easiest way would be to wrap the expansion in a form that annotates it for the compiler 18:24:17 yes something like that 18:25:19 nikodemus: If you look at the actual machine regs when that SIGTRAP arrives, does the EFLAGS register have the 9th (#x100) bit set? 18:25:44 Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.221] has joined #lisp 18:25:49 let me see 18:26:06 Evet [~Evet@85.106.156.50] has joined #lisp 18:26:40 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:10 It feels like it might be bogus with respect to the mach exception handling again. 18:27:18 eflags 0x246 582 18:27:46 That's... odd. 18:28:55 gonzojive_ [~red@c-76-21-113-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:05 And I vaguely remember something about SIGTRAP delivery being generally unreliable? 18:31:13 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:31:14 tcr: no, it means you can change the value of a slot and be able to undo that change. 18:31:23 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 18:32:16 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 18:32:21 yeah -- for int3 occasionally. slyrus had a c-based test-case for it, but i'm not sure what's the last time anyone verified it 10.3 or 10.4, maybe? 18:32:27 (this is 10.5) 18:32:40 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-100-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:25 -!- Evet [~Evet@85.106.156.50] has quit [Quit: Evet] 18:33:34 prxq: thanks 18:33:42 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 18:33:43 we can also wonder about the interaction between gdb and our mach signal thread here... 18:35:09 And I know so little about the exception handling semantics there. 18:35:43 At the same time, that 133 exit code is 128 + 5, and 5 might be SIGTRAP. 18:35:52 Which would be standard for posixoid behavior. 18:35:58 yeah 18:35:59 And I don't see a SIGTRAP case in the mach exception handler code. 18:36:06 it's not there 18:36:18 That might be the thing to try next, then. 18:36:45 i was able to add one, and got the message -- but i didn't manage passing the buck to sigtrap_handler 18:37:14 That should be easy enough, you "just" hijack the same code as we have for the UD2 trap. 18:37:51 i did just that, and got cryptic errors 18:38:12 just a sec, i'll reproduce and get more details 18:38:19 Mmm. 18:38:51 I also think that the emails that you forwarded to me would have been better off being done in the context of the launchpad bug in question. 18:39:15 -!- lemonade` [~00@pool-74-96-73-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:39:18 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-142-243.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:35 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:51 hello nikodemus 18:39:53 Ah, I see the update to the bug now. 18:42:39 yeah, too a while to find them on gmane 18:42:46 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:06 Probably because it tracked the message thread, and ignored it moving between lists? 18:43:30 nyef: can you look about line 534 in x86-64-darwin.c? 18:44:03 Just after "What do we need to put in our fake siginfo?" 18:44:30 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:45:18 That looks good, but for the single-step trap case, I wouldn't bump RIP. 18:45:36 right. iirc the code i have gets to the first leg of that if () from the single-step SIGTRAP, but doesn't manage the call_c_function_in_context 18:45:52 ah! 18:46:35 Oh, and mind the check for the literal UD2 instruction (0x0b0f). 18:46:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 yeah, i added || (EXC_BREAKPOINT == exception) there 18:48:32 building, we'll see soon 18:48:53 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:11 Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:50:02 I have two potential fixes for lp#379472, but I'm not really happy with either of them. 18:50:50 (That's the windows UWP one.) 18:51:16 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:52:17 what are the options? 18:53:20 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 18:53:46 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 18:54:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/95661 18:54:46 (modulo actually compiling, and I'm not sure I've tested the second one.) 18:55:41 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-201-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:03 alexshendi [~chatzilla@dslb-094-218-208-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:56:43 Tekk_ [~laptop@cpe-071-077-209-233.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:11 how do you exit a common lisp interpreter? or is that up to the creator of it? 18:57:24 Tekk_: Depends on the implementation. 18:57:30 (quit) and (exit) are common choises 18:57:38 as is ^D 18:57:40 There are a few which you exit by shutting down the machine. 18:57:46 read the manual 18:57:47 *Tekk_* famepalms 18:57:52 nyef: don't they all work like that to some degree? 18:57:54 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:02 kept forgetting the parens in quit 18:58:05 metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:23 ah, a C and perl fan on planet lisp is fun.. 18:58:24 -!- Tekk_ [~laptop@cpe-071-077-209-233.ec.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:58:26 Xach: Yes, but some of the machines don't really have the option to run -without- lisp. 18:58:30 nyef: wow -- the second one is impressively hairy, but seems principled 18:58:39 Tekk_: i gave someone a lisp application that had a global variable: (defvar quit "To quit, type (sb-ext:quit)") 18:58:40 nikodemus: Yes, that's what I was going for. 18:58:44 a la python 18:59:09 stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 Xach: why is that not a symbol macro? 18:59:21 But at the same time, it's making a few assumptions about how UWPs work that may not actually be true in practice. 18:59:38 drewc: it didn't occur to me at the time. 19:00:33 Xach: my spidey senses were tingling as soon as i saw a defvar without earmuffs.... a part of my brian _knows_ that's not right and rejects it immediatly. 19:00:38 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:38 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:38 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:00:42 brain 19:00:47 i don't have a brian. 19:01:35 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:02:09 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-71-11.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02:15 drewc: not something i'd normally do outside of a MY-APP-USER package meant only as a repl 19:02:31 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:03:45 Xach: yeah, of course not, and the idea itself is great actually... i'm adding such a thing to all my delivered toplevels now :) 19:04:53 drewc: For EXIT as well? 19:05:05 *Xach* had a HELP in there also 19:05:40 "For help, email xach@xach.com" 19:05:44 slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1DA68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:54 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@xvm-22-22.ghst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:07:08 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:02 nyef: in x86-64-darwin.c, @498 or thereabouts -- can you explain the condition for the fake sigreturn to me? 19:09:04 x86-64-darwin-os.c, you mean? 19:09:18 yeah 19:09:28 now i manage to get to sigtrap_handler, but the return isn't working -- unsurprisingly 19:09:54 Looks like an undeclared "magic" trap, a UD2 followed by six FF bytes. 19:10:37 -!- Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:38 It's at the end of signal emulation wrapper. 19:11:15 So about line 256 or so. 19:11:59 ok, i see it 19:12:23 bojovs [~bojovs@p4159-ipad309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:12:29 Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 Pepe_ [~ppjet@xvm-22-22.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 Bloody undocumented magic, not that most of this isn't already. 19:13:04 konr``` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 19:14:49 -!- konr`` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:16:24 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-181-198-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:17:08 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-201-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:18:00 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 19:18:22 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Quit: Bah, pedro3005 is back] 19:19:04 lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 19:25:22 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-18.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:25:25 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 19:29:57 huh, that's funny. 19:30:07 -!- pbusser [~pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 19:30:34 electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:54 just starting sbcl (without .sbclrc) on darwin hits the fake sigreturn leg over 40 times 19:31:05 -!- fvides [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 19:32:11 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:32:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-7-238.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:32:47 fvides [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has joined #lisp 19:34:12 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 -!- fvides [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:34 varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:37:57 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 19:40:23 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 hey 19:40:31 what do you guys think about qi? 19:40:51 minion: tell me about qi, please. 19:40:52 beach: have a look at qi: Qi should probably be categorized as a Library. http://www.cliki.net/qi 19:41:13 me, as beach, do not think about it 19:41:45 i think that the western new-age types have missed the point about qi myself :P 19:41:45 Oh, right, now I remember. 19:41:47 more on Qi http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/nextlisp(3).htm 19:41:52 rdd` [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:42:17 lukego_ [~lukegorri@c-c725e655.1410-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:42:28 I suspect a lot of those efforts are based on ideas of what the CL community wants that are essentially false. 19:42:41 But I might be wrong of course... 19:42:43 I think it's more on what Mark Tarver wants. :-) 19:42:47 s/on/about 19:42:56 -!- electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 19:42:57 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 19:43:00 grant money? 19:43:03 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@c-c725e655.1410-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:03 -!- lukego_ is now known as lukego 19:43:09 tic: Yes, but I am sure he thinks this is widely shared. 19:43:14 beach, could be. 19:43:34 drewc: That would be another valid explanation. 19:43:38 He wrote a good essay called "The Bipolar Lisp Programmer". So there's some good in him. :-) 19:43:58 akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.114] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 s/good/interesting/1. (I need to think twice before hitting that enter key.) 19:44:06 tic: Oh, he is a great guy. I saw him in Milan for instance. Seems very reasonable. 19:44:20 beach, except he has iffy views on Lisp? 19:44:33 i've had correspondence with him, and he is indeed a great guy with great ideas. 19:44:43 tic: We all have our agendas. You have to learn to abstract away from that. 19:44:53 hmm, the lambdassociates.org states that Qi is award-winning; i wonder what awards are those? 19:45:01 i believe he abandoned qi because he didn't feel there was sufficient interest in it, and went to do non-programming stuff instead? 19:45:09 so learning lisp is essential anyway, before qi 19:45:16 beach, *nod* 19:45:27 nikodemus, that's what he said before, yeah. 19:45:36 naeg: Absolutely! 19:45:41 nikodemus: iirc, he decided to go to india or something to find enlightenment, then turned into a freetard and started working on Qi again. 19:46:01 nikodemus: he's back, and doing a kernel lisp based on the 'essential' lisp 1.5 apparently. 19:46:02 -!- ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:06 apparently, satori somehow involves the GPL 19:46:34 *drewc* thinks that http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html is a much better kernel lisp than Tarver's K-Lambda 19:46:53 there: http://groups.google.com/group/Qilang/browse_thread/thread/592773c562017d87 19:47:04 drewc: isn't that the one with FEXPRs? :\ 19:47:15 ah, yes it is. 19:47:19 sykopomp: yup 19:47:52 sykopomp: But there have been some recent papers showing that fexprs might not be too bad. 19:48:00 I don't really get the point of fexprs :\ 19:48:02 he makes the excellent point that the lambda calcules is not functions, it's fexprs 19:48:07 calculus* 19:48:24 are they just macros that don't automatically evaluate the resulting sexp? 19:48:41 Hun [~hun@95-90-181-198-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:42 sykopomp: Think of them as macros at runtime. You could funcall them. 19:48:49 no, they are functions that can choose which arguments to evaluate 19:49:12 which is like lazy functions with strictness on demand? 19:49:32 pardon my haskellish vocabulary on this 19:49:35 ephcon [~ephcon@n250-37.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 i'm just wondering if it is about bringing lazyness into language 19:49:56 beach: pitman wrote about how they were awful wrt performance, no? Have the papers found ways to have fexprs without destroying performance?... 19:50:19 sykopomp: Yes, that's the point of those papers as I recall. 19:50:34 sykopomp: You know, sufficiently smart compiler and all. 19:50:50 konr```` [~user@201.82.138.3] has joined #lisp 19:50:56 jmbr [~jmbr@14.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:51:25 I'm still not sure what's so nice about fexprs? I guess that they're kind of like first-class run-time macros? 19:51:40 but even then, I'm not sure what kind of situation they would be really useful for. 19:51:56 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:51:58 sykopomp: sapir-worf 19:51:59 jdz: Not just that, no. It's also about syntactic extensions which are more general than just lazy evaluation. The question is whether to do them at compile time or runtime. 19:52:11 Can someone point me to a paper about FEXPRs? Thanks a lot! 19:52:34 -!- konr``` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:52:44 nikodemus pasted "printf debugging, again" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96127 19:53:21 sykopomp: partially evaluating tower of reflective interpeters + fexprs = stricly more powerful than DEFMACRO with little to no runtime performance hit. 19:53:40 sykopomp: You realize of course that your reaction is common. People who have not had access to some mechanism don't see the use for it. I mean, what's the point of multiple dispatch, multiple inheritence, multiple values, first-class functions, closures, etc.? 19:53:41 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.33] has joined #lisp 19:53:55 nikodemus annotated #96127 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96127#1 19:54:36 beach: My reaction is not that of skepticism. It's that I don't really understand how they work, is all. 19:54:44 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 Greetings lispers 19:55:01 holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 and for the things you listed, there's certainly examples of what situations they can be useful in. 19:55:21 even if a different construct can do basically the same thing. 19:55:22 sykopomp: OK, sorry, I misunderstood what you said then. My answer would then be to go read recent papers on it, one of which was published at ELS2009. 19:55:25 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-200-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:29 hello tmh. 19:55:40 Hey beach 19:55:42 no one wants to pass around 'context' structs, after all :P 19:55:43 sykopomp: fexprs are useful for implementing LAMBDA... read that link i sent that started this all! :) 19:55:50 nyef: any ideas? 19:55:54 drewc: sweet, thanks! 19:56:14 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 drewc: but question -- aren't reflective interpreters notorious for how horribly inefficient they are? Or do you mean that building one on top of fexprs with recent developments would let you have your reflective interpreter, and eat it too? 19:57:12 I'm typing in a bunch of complex literals like #C(1.1 2.2) and fighting with Paredit trying to get it to quit inserting spaces. Has anyone figured out how to do this? 19:57:20 *sykopomp* wasn't around in the era of reflective interpreters. Just read some poo-pooing about them in LiSP 19:57:21 sykopomp: partial evaluating a reflective interpreter with itself is the input gets you a compiler ;) 19:57:57 ysph [~user@24.181.93.165] has joined #lisp 19:58:02 sykopomp: "futamura projections" is probably a good google starting point. 19:58:12 sykopomp: Some of those considerations date from before we had JIT compilers and recompilation at runtime. 19:58:33 I tend to read that as "futurama projections" 19:58:38 JITs are cool. 19:58:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:55 Krystof: IIRC, that joke was made on the show at one point :) 19:59:41 Having said that, I am still not entirel convinced that macros can be replaced by fexprs. 19:59:43 Krystof: lol, me too 20:00:32 peddie_ [~peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 *beach* feels old 20:01:36 beach: replaced? no... augemented, quite possibly. I think the important lesson of Kernel is that fexprs (for lack of a better word) are primitive, and he has a calculus for run time, not just compile time/ term substitution 20:01:58 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@p4159-ipad309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: bye-bye] 20:02:23 drewc: Makes sense. 20:03:03 nightynight 20:03:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:56 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:55 fiveop [~fiveop@p57952F51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:11 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p57952F51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:49 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:09:11 unicode [~user@95.214.16.120] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 tali713 [tali713@x-160-94-88-93.uofm-secure.wireless.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 20:10:54 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:07 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: /me makes like a nikodemus and ...] 20:13:34 is there any writeup about Kernel out there that is actually readable? the immediately-googlable pdf is amazingly meandering 20:14:28 both boring _and_ structured as reference. amazing feat, that 20:15:07 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-152-14-131.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 20:17:05 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:17:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:54 cmm: the slides available here : http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html : are a good overview 20:18:26 drewc: thank you, kind sir! 20:19:07 cmm: we aim to please! :) 20:19:36 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 20:20:14 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:20:31 *cmm* should learn to trust links that say "slides" or "overview" more than he does 20:21:25 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:21:34 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 20:22:37 -!- akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:13 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051168006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 20:25:01 Ok, I've unserialized php serialized objects by modifying the lisp reader for the duration that I'm reading the object. Is there a similar thing I can be doing for print, eg to effectively reverse what the read-table modifications do to read _in_ but instead to print back out. I know I could use FORMAT, but I'm hoping for some better way that is equivalent to making READ unserialize php. 20:27:17 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:18 <_3b> clhs print-object 20:27:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pr_obj.htm 20:28:45 <_3b> clhs *print-pprint-dispatch* 20:28:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_ppr.htm 20:29:18 ok goodie thanks 3b :) 20:29:30 never ever messed with the pretty printer ^-^ 20:29:34 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:34 this should be fun 20:30:03 you'll still probably have to use FORMAT inside your methods, though :) 20:30:14 *_3b* thought the print as pascall example was in the clhs somewher, but can't find it... 20:31:11 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:31:12 _3b: I thought it was in CLtL2? 20:31:39 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:53 cmm: yeah but I'm hoping to do effectively the reverse of READ, without doing "my special print" if you follow me. I can READ, READ-FROM-STRING and so on php just by dropping the new read-table in. I'm going to see about learning how to do the reverse :) 20:32:44 nixeagle: depending on what you get after reading, you may be interested in defining methods on print-object 20:32:48 I don't think I want to mess with the default print-object on cl:string though. Maybe pretty printer ;) 20:33:06 (test-read "a:3:{i:0;i:1;i:1;i:1;i:2:i:1}") --> ((0 . 1) (1 . 1) (2 . 1)) 20:33:32 is that really php? 20:33:33 it needs to be better, but a php array is a mix of data structures (there is nothing stopping that from being (("test" . 1) ...) 20:33:43 *cmm* never messed with the pretty printer, but suspects that it's not very pretty 20:33:46 jdz: its the output from serialize() 20:34:16 I've implemented unserialize for common lisp, but I'd like to be able to serialize _back_ to the php representation before I release this lib 20:34:23 nixeagle: then you just write a function serialize on the lisp side 20:34:34 Hrm... Not seeing it in CLtL2 either. Perhaps going back to the original paper would work? (It was a MERL TR, wasn't it?) 20:34:47 jdz: aww! I don't get to mess with pretty printing or doing the effective reverse of READ ;) 20:35:33 nixeagle: that's implementation details; you use whatever gets the job done :) 20:35:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:53 jdz: yeah yeah yeah XD, I'm also in this to learn new things :P 20:35:58 -!- alexshendi [~chatzilla@dslb-094-218-208-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:24 migge [~marc@ip-95-223-247-31.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has quit [Quit: Good night nice people!] 20:38:05 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:39:35 electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:39 -!- skeptical_p [~rrr@109.66.46.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:14 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@14.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:43:00 jmbr [~jmbr@14.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:43:47 frontiers [~frontiers@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:48 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-200-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:57 -!- electriceloquenc [~anonymous@h-72-245-191-50.mclnva23.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 20:45:34 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:47:31 asx [~ASX@200.179.105.130] has joined #lisp 20:47:39 hi guy 20:47:41 i have a question 20:47:54 asx: Ask, friend. 20:47:55 can i declare functions without parameters ? 20:48:03 like this 20:48:09 (defun test () 20:48:28 of course. 20:48:28 and use on listener "test" 20:48:30 ? 20:48:38 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:49:32 what's listener? 20:49:44 context? 20:49:46 some gui CLs call their repl windows "listeners" 20:49:48 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:55 stassats`: It's a REPL by any other name. 20:49:59 oh 20:50:03 ahh. 20:50:39 asx: so you want a symbol macro? 20:50:58 asx: Functions without parameters are called just like normal functions, thus (defun test () ...) creates a function that can be called via (test). If you want to just use test, you need a symbol-macro. 20:51:25 oh 20:51:44 clhs d-s-m 20:51:44 i forgot () 20:51:44 DEFINE-SYMBOL-MACRO: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_1.htm 20:51:47 on call 20:51:48 XD 20:52:21 when the function have parameters i can call using this sintax "func X Y" 20:52:29 without parameters i need to use (func) 20:52:36 :{ 20:53:03 that seems logical, isn't it? 20:53:42 wait, you didn't include parenthesis, was that intentional 20:53:43 ? 20:53:45 is this a 'can i make lisp syntax look like python?' question? 20:53:48 in general the syntax for evaluating a function is always '(func parm1 parm2 etc)' 20:53:56 yes... got it 20:53:57 drewc: looks almost like Rob Warnock's OPFL 20:54:09 yeah 20:54:25 i just want a function it call menu 20:54:32 OPFL is cool actually, i've used something similar for a command shell for end-users 20:54:37 XD 20:55:34 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 20:56:57 can i hold some value on a var in a function ? 20:57:13 i know the scope of var will be the function 20:57:24 and it will be loose on next call of other functions 20:57:43 i need to reuse a (read) 20:57:47 in a cond 20:58:03 can i ? 20:58:07 drewc: what's OPFL ? 20:58:16 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@n250-37.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:58:29 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:37 fe[nl]ix: Outer Parenthesis Free REPL 20:59:07 drewc: do you know man ? 20:59:09 http://rpw3.org/hacks/lisp/opfr.lisp 20:59:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:59:24 *Xach* got the last word wrong 20:59:39 Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 asx: i know that your ability to communicate your issues is sorely lacking, to the point where i'd rather ignore you than try and understand what you are trying to say, to be honest. 21:00:49 pr_ [~pr@p4FE2D822.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:49 -!- pr_ [~pr@p4FE2D822.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:50 i`m tring to do something like this 21:02:55 (in javascript) 21:03:02 var content = (read) 21:03:05 switch (read) 21:03:07 ops 21:03:10 switch (content) 21:03:20 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:03:22 can i do something like this ? 21:03:27 you might want to use let. 21:03:44 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-201-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:24 tyr42 [~tyr_god_o@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:58 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:33 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:07:21 minion: tell asx about that-dead-sexy-book 21:07:21 asx: look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:07:59 asx: please come back when you can formulate your questions in terms of lisp... you are asking very basic questions that any good text should cover in the first few chapters 21:08:07 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:08:31 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:09:19 -!- tyr42 [~tyr_god_o@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 21:12:21 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:12:44 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 21:12:59 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@c-24-21-67-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 21:13:47 -!- ned [~ned@c-71-233-209-245.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:13:50 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:15 i used to think this was rough channel until I spent some time in #c++ 21:17:51 Lycurgus: i like to think that i'm doing newbs a service by being rude with them until they learn to think on their own. I reality, i'm probably just a stubborn asshole. 21:18:15 either way, the s/n ratio is still admirable here, so something is working. 21:18:19 no I agree with your first presentiment, especially in this case 21:18:44 and c++ has twice the population of here 21:20:28 So, I have 4 gigs of possibly-failing-under-medium-heat DDR2 memory for a laptop computer. How do I verify that it's no good, and what do I do with it if it's no good? 21:20:39 Lycurgus: well, i'm sure some of the newbies sympathize with the latter summation :) 21:20:47 nyef: memtest86 21:20:59 nyef: run memtest86 while pointing a hairdryer at it, and throw it away 21:21:01 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:21:14 Yeah, tried memtest86+ 4.0, and the display started flaking out partway through. 21:21:33 does your vid card share system RAM? 21:21:37 Yes. 21:21:45 (That's normal for laptops, apparently.) 21:22:02 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:06 Right now I'm running on one gig of memory, and it's painful. 21:22:17 yeah, and would account for the display flaking out, especially if the RAM is bad 21:22:29 ram is pretty cheap these days, non? 21:22:41 -!- holycow [~new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:45 holycow [~new@64.151.208.2] has joined #lisp 21:25:29 -!- asx [~ASX@200.179.105.130] has quit [] 21:25:34 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:49 ... Best buy has a 4gig pc2-5300 ddr2 memory pack for $154.99. 21:26:27 hrm.. not all that cheap is it. 21:26:42 ddr2 prices have started going back up. 21:26:51 though, i remember paying over $50/mb at one point, so what am i complaining about! :) 21:27:06 davazp [~user@206.Red-88-8-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:36 *Xach* tries to remember what memory-compression hack he tried to use to get DOOM to run 21:29:02 Sod best buy, I'm going to wait until the end of the month and take the opportunity to go to microcenter and buy from there. 21:29:05 i had to play doom in a postage-stamp sized window on my AMD 386-40... so jealous of my friend and his 486! 21:29:09 dos=high,umb,auto; load himem.sys; loadhigh mouse.com; ? 21:29:12 wait, I just realised that you said that one gig of memory was painful 21:29:12 *Krystof* *sighs* 21:29:15 Same memory upgrade, $120, plus rebate. 21:29:34 I had 627k free w/ mouse and audio driver loaded. That was life. 21:29:47 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:49 Krystof: I have a VM that I do paid work within, and it needs a gig. I'm running it on half that, and stuff isn't working. 21:30:11 nyef: http://www.vancouverlaptop.com/index.php?section=products&category=memory 21:30:40 nyef: our local refurbisher... i get almost all my laptop related stuff there now. 21:32:14 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:33:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 21:35:25 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:38:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:38:21 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:39:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:39:43 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:40:26 nyef: newegg? :D 21:40:38 Mmm... Maybe. 21:41:09 I just don't like that RAM that I've been using for more than a year and a half suddenly seems to be failing as of yesterday. 21:41:53 nyef: could be a popped capacitor or something as well... especially if it was sudden and without good reason 21:42:34 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:43:25 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:13 Bloody development environment takes up north of 100 megs of RAM at idle. :-/ 21:45:51 ephcon [~ephcon@student166-93.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 21:46:41 -!- Hezy_ [~Hezy@62.56.254.221] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:27 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-36-96.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:02 nyef: ouch! i thought emacs was heavy :) 21:49:11 erjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:49:19 nyef: I've been stuck in visual studio all day, it's taking 550MB 21:49:19 though, actually... emacs + slime + sbcl must get close to that 21:49:37 -!- migge [~marc@ip-95-223-247-31.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:38 Okay, I lied. It's 100 megs of RAM for the IDE, -plus- the overhead for the database. 21:49:56 that reminds me I still need to code my own editor 21:49:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student166-93.hampshire.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:00 a better one! ;) 21:50:32 koollman: good luck with that! ;) 21:50:33 Okay, VM shutting down so I can see if boosting its memory allocation to dangerous-for-the-host levels will allow the simulator to run. 21:50:52 drewc: hey, it's not like no one managed to do it before me. I would have tons of examples ;) 21:51:08 yeah, emacs + sbcl is 110mb resident right now :) 21:51:09 my emacs is using 174MB RES memory atm ^-^, sbcl 183MB RES memory (from htop) 21:51:17 Meanwhile, far more important than paid work, I just found a Raal's Tome of Destruction. Score! 21:51:35 koollman: a better editor than emacs? please direct me towards such a beast, i would like to see it! :) 21:51:48 drewc: notepad.exe 21:51:51 :) 21:51:59 lol 21:52:04 drewc: climacs? 21:52:06 *nyef* runs. 21:52:15 nyef: i might have accepted hemlock :) 21:52:16 -!- varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:33 Well there you go! 21:52:41 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-201-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:44 (Actually, I probably should try hemlock again one of these days.) 21:52:44 _if_ it worked for me, which it doesn't 21:53:09 I had some ideas in a todo-list file somewhere. Features like ... not using elisp, not blocking on I/O, always using a VCS rather than some 'backup file' ... 21:53:12 dlichtblau has been working pretty hard at it... the QT version is supposed to be quite neat. 21:53:41 koollman: you should write your new text editor in Zimbu. 21:53:45 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:56 Zimbu was designed by the guy who did VIM, so you know it's gotta be great for writing editors ;) 21:54:23 koollman: see, it's hard to claim 'better' than emacs if you don't have all that elisp at your disposal. A better text editor .. sure... a better lisp machine with better applications? that's a hard one! :) 21:54:29 koollman: http://www.zimbu.org/ 21:54:32 never heard of it. "Suppose you want to write a new program, something like a text editor" ... I like that intro ;) 21:54:54 koollman: read on ;) 21:55:10 drewc: I know. but I think elisp is what makes emacs great, and stops it from becoming greater 21:55:12 he has very detailed and well-thought-out descriptions of all his design decisions. 21:55:17 it's brilliance at work, I tell you. 21:55:29 because vim is a bastion of excellent code an and example of a great editor? I must have missed the memo on that one 21:55:36 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 21:55:38 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:56:09 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:21 Heh. 21:56:25 the vim codebase is horrible. 21:56:27 koollman: LiCE has an elisp-in-cl implementation, and an emacs that runs on top of it. 21:56:30 But... It's an excellent editor. 21:57:05 Nobody wants an excellent editor, they want an excellent OS and programming platform with a tolerable editor. :-P 21:57:10 vim is simply the latest bug ridden implementation of the idea of modal editing :) 21:57:21 best we've got. 21:57:27 modal editing is yummie. 21:57:43 actually, I want an excellent editor. but I need it to be much better at a lot of other things than the editing part ;) 21:57:43 i like modal editors... i even like vim enough that it's installed on my servers in place of vi 21:58:00 To vims credit, it is better than the other modal editors that I've tried :) 21:58:01 some day, I noticed I write less often than I read, search, debug and test 21:58:37 It's kinda like mutt: email clients suck, mutt sucks less 21:58:54 one day I realized that I could swap the caps lock and left ctrl keys. 21:59:01 and then I stopped caring about ever switching to vim. 21:59:04 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:59:27 sykopomp: I use caps lock for my windows key so I can control my window manager :( I need a second easy to reach meta key 21:59:29 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:41 herbieB: get a space cadet. 22:00:05 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:32 sykopomp: Ha, nice. 22:01:09 i use my windows key for my windows key 22:01:37 control for control... and the other control is control as well, even if it's spelt 'CapsLk' 22:01:46 migge [~marc@ip-95-223-247-31.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:52 I use a HHK as my main keyboard, so I don't bind the windows key to anything. 22:02:17 <3 HHK 22:02:42 the only thing it's missing is mechanical switches :( 22:03:00 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:12 actually, if I configured emacs to commit when I save, and added some automation regarding test detection in software, ... it would become quite nice 22:04:01 still leaves the 'async i/o' problem. I'm not sure a workaround can be 'patched' in emacs... 22:04:14 i use thinkpads, and i even have an external thinkpad keyboard for working on non-thinkpads 22:04:18 i like the nipple. 22:04:19 *nyef* tries restarting his winxp vm again with less more memory. "640 megs should be enough for anyone." 22:04:22 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:38 koollman: fork + ipc ;) 22:05:42 nyef: saying that made me both feel old, and realise that i'm going to feel _really_ old when pc's come with 640 gigs RAM. 22:06:00 reading that* 22:06:09 drewc: you are going to feel old very soon, then 22:06:10 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:30 koollman: i can already but 144 in our biggest server... not far off at all 22:06:33 I've some customers with 128GB ram servers. add another decade... 22:06:39 drewc: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/appropriate_term.png thinkpads always make me think of this. 22:06:42 (or less) 22:06:47 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:06:50 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 22:06:54 I can remember days when my video card had more memory than my CPU. 22:07:18 sykopomp: :) 22:07:54 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 22:08:40 sykopomp: over the last 10 years, i've used thinkpads for 7 of them.... for a while i used a dell and got used to the trackpad as well, and now i need both the nipple and the box to feel happy :) 22:08:49 now, my main cpu has more L2 cache than some of my older video cards on another box :) 22:09:22 drewc: dells still don't have multitouch on their touchpads, do they? 22:09:31 not last i checked 22:09:57 that started driving me insane after I got an eeepc :\ 22:10:02 -!- konr```` [~user@201.82.138.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:30 koollman: Just think how fast rendering would be if you didn't need to stray outside L2! 22:12:52 nyef: interestingly... it's the research subject of one of my friend 22:12:58 and... the answer is 'very fast' ;) 22:13:00 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 22:13:45 (he's looking at various ways to coerce cpu to use the cache as the 'main data', rather than an intermediate step) 22:14:38 Ah, like that lovely stunt to persuade a CPU to maintain a decryption key in its on-die cache instead of letting it out to main memory? 22:15:10 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:15:10 something like that, yes. but with as many operations as possible 22:15:28 it doesn't need to be let out into main memory if it's already on a post-it on the fridge :) 22:15:49 -!- kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:04 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:16:10 which means trying to stay within certain conditions, and forbidding various cache-syncronizing instructions ... complex tricks, just to use that precious sram that is now shipped everywhere 22:16:38 Well, looks like bumping my VM allocation from 512 megs to 640 was sufficient. :-/ 22:17:36 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:14 -!- abugosh 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[~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:54:28 demmeln [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has joined #lisp 22:54:41 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1DA68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:54:41 -!- demmeln [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:43 demmeln1 [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has joined #lisp 22:55:47 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Quit: Evet] 22:56:07 -!- demmeln1 [~Adium@188.110.61.237] has left #lisp 22:57:41 moocow [~new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 22:58:17 -!- holycow [~new@64.151.208.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:14 Beaver [~guest@109.67.7.205] has joined #lisp 23:00:40 asx [~ASX@200.179.105.130] has joined #lisp 23:00:44 hey guys 23:00:57 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:09 www.search2.net (new search engine) 23:01:31 why when i make this append (append LISTNAME 12) it returns me (1 2 3 . 12) 23:01:39 minion: ops 23:01:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ops''. 23:01:40 LISTNAME = (1 2 3) 23:01:43 -!- Beaver [~guest@109.67.7.205] has left #lisp 23:01:43 hm 23:01:46 why this POINT 23:01:46 :S 23:02:06 clhs append 23:02:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm 23:02:07 clhs append 23:02:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm 23:02:38 (sigh) 23:03:45 drewc 23:04:00 ? 23:04:05 how can i transform this point in (1 2 3 12) 23:04:06 ? 23:04:21 (1 2 3 . 12) => (1 2 3 12) 23:04:42 asx: First ask yourself: "Did I bother clicking and reading the link I was given?" 23:05:09 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:05:37 heh.... the CLHS actually uses the variable name 'lst' on that page. 23:05:44 -!- guaq [gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:05:45 *drewc* glares at the clhs 23:06:31 hyperspec: #scheme is over thataway -----> :) 23:07:38 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has 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[~user@24.181.93.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:38:49 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:48 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:44:31 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:46:39 kajic [~kajic@nl118-171-109.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 23:47:48 Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 -!- Dodek [dodek@cl-187.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:48:11 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 23:48:21 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:49:24 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:24 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:49:24 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 23:52:18 Hello! I've just started learning lisp and I am trying to constuct an is-prime function. It consists of a loop that is supposed to return nil if the number is found to be a composite, and if the loop doesn't return the function should return t. For some reason, however, the function always returns t. Could someone point me to what I'm missing? Here is the code: http://pastebin.com/MuKFYJvP 23:53:17 <_3b> clhs return 23:53:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_return.htm 23:53:34 <_3b> clks loop 23:53:42 <_3b> clhs loop 23:53:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 23:54:05 <_3b> LOOP has a block named NIL 23:54:21 <_3b> defun makes a block named the same as the function 23:54:43 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:54:54 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:56 <_3b> clhs return-from 23:54:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ret_fr.htm 23:55:24 <_3b> ^ i think that is what you wanted instead of return, though there are better ways to do that 23:56:08 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-12-248.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 23:56:16 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:20 Any Common Lisp XML users here? Given an XML Schema (XSD file) how do I generate XML that adheres to the schema and parse XML that uses the schema into some internal representation? 23:56:29 <_3b> for example (not (loop ... always (equal ...))) 23:57:06 <_3b> or actually, i skipped a step... (not (loop ... return nil)) 23:57:07 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:57:23 <_3b> then simplify that to (loop ... always) 23:57:35 *_3b* probably got the logic backwards in there somewhere anyway 23:57:39 The Java way apparently involves something called jaxb -- it eats up the XSD and produces a bunch of Java code that can be used to construct an internal data structure, .... then output XML. 23:57:54 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:57:56 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:59:24 _3b: thanks for the hints, ill look into look always 23:59:27 loop* 23:59:46 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.16.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]