00:00:04 Hunchentoot seems to be just the right amount of abstraction for my purposes. It's been a great platform to learn more about http. 00:00:06 i don't use/like regexps either, but cl-ppcre is good code. 00:00:22 welp.. through the years I had to write some dumb, simple web interfaces (I'm not a web programmer) 00:01:09 austinh: i'm designing my new framework to start at the same level as hunchentoot allows you to seamlessly get up to the power of UCW. 00:01:10 -!- ogait [i=filipe@d01-0124a.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [] 00:01:18 when I started, I used araneida (there was no hunchentoot, methinks) and its html syntax 00:01:46 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-91001.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:01:55 OK so I'm pretty sure CL is the right flavor of lisp to use right? PLT scheme plus their web framework is not the way to go? 00:02:14 I remember liking it.. then I switched to hunchentoot/cl-who.. and while I didn't have trouble with cl-who, I indeed think it's not optimal.. 00:02:20 drewc: I look forward to hearing more about it. 00:02:23 rickmode: depends... plt is pretty cool. 00:02:36 drewc: hunchentoot and UCW - those are web servers that host apps right? or is this a different level of abstraction? 00:03:00 rickmode: hunchentoot is a server with a simple framework built in 00:03:12 UCW is a framework with a simple server built in :) 00:03:20 -!- ephcon [n=ephcon@student166-58.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:03:28 (or not, it can use any lisp web server, or mod_lisp) 00:03:43 oic - so with UCW (and probably both) you'd want it behind an httpd 00:03:57 nah 00:04:10 i mean, depends on the situation, but it's not needed 00:04:25 i run production apps using ucw's built in httpd 00:04:44 similar to tomcat (it generally being being a good idea to put a jee web app server behind apache or somesuch) 00:04:45 oic 00:05:12 if it's public, i usually mod_proxy to it, 00:05:16 or whatever proxy 00:05:35 ya that brings up the next question: where to host? gae is out... leaves amazon ec2 or some other virtual hosting 00:05:36 but for internal apps, or if i don't need anything apache has to offer, 00:05:44 The Tech Co-op 00:05:48 ephcon [n=ephcon@student166-58.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 (biased) 00:05:57 :D 00:06:04 i've checked out that - that's canadian right? I guess that works for all of north america 00:06:11 we are worldwide 00:06:23 we have servers in north america and in europe 00:06:35 galaxy-wide ! 00:06:40 rockin' 00:06:52 that's only half the world 00:07:12 we have members on every continent save the antarctic :) 00:07:25 lol - ya not a bad price - $10CDN/mo to *play* 00:07:44 rickmode: those prices are old as well... i can do better 00:07:45 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-144-6.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:49 CDN ... i mean cad 00:08:18 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:43 (barter opportunities available as well, inquiries to drewc@tech.coop, sorry for the spam #lisp :)) 00:08:59 well I did ask the specfic question 00:09:16 But can you do better than the 3 IP limit for xen hosts? 00:09:39 pinterface: ha, that i don't know... not last time i checked :) 00:10:08 (that's a Xen limitation, not a Tech Co-op limitation :P) 00:10:08 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:10:36 so i guess I build a xen image myself as I get ready to deploy? or does the tech coop take care of the OS and patching too? it would rock to have a vps solution that took care of the sys admin stuff 00:10:57 I like the GAE approach (at least looking at it from a startup company perspective) 00:11:18 with amazon ec2 and rackspace you have to manage the server (it seems) 00:11:31 rickmode: we have that option, we call it our deployment package. 00:11:40 and no, we install the OS for you 00:11:44 regardless 00:11:54 (unless you happen to have an image you want to use) 00:12:16 you get full root access to the image, can compile kernels, serial console, the works. 00:12:29 that'd be a *no* but I probably would want a local instance of the image to develop and test against 00:12:47 that's easy enough to arrange. 00:13:08 we're quite flexible on the services we offer, because we can be :) 00:13:52 and yeah, if you have an application that you want deployed, we can take are of the sys admin issues for you. 00:14:00 take care of* 00:15:14 rickmode: /join #tech.coop if you like :) 00:15:21 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 00:19:39 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.188.175] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:20:46 konr [n=user@187.88.50.72] has joined #lisp 00:22:42 -!- xffff [n=fffff@88.130.203.143] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:46 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:24:40 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:32 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:37:08 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@wireless-165-124-97-68.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has left #lisp 00:37:58 lithper2 [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:22 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.62.23] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:51:34 This may start a good debate. If one were to implement something like SRFI-26 (http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-26/srfi-26.html) in Common Lisp, would one be better off exporting the '<> symbol from one's package, or using loop-style name comparison to detect the symbol? 00:52:44 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 00:53:37 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:47 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.17] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:59:10 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:27 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has joined #lisp 01:05:39 mwilliams_ [n=mwilliam@rrcs-67-53-221-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:34 oh my goodness I just came in from running 10 miles outside 01:06:45 I feel great 01:08:04 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:08:15 Ready to hack some sweet Lisp! 01:08:35 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-145-54.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:42 malsyned: just use a keyword :<> ... it even looks like a guy going Oh! you should have named this argument! 01:09:19 haha yes 01:11:14 malsyned: i'm reminded of this http://random-state.net/log/3409830445.html 01:11:58 nitor [n=nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 -!- felideon_ [n=user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:14:39 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-8-114.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:17:14 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:17:37 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:17:51 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:03 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 is there a sane way to do slime file name translation? 01:18:23 i have mounted the remote fs on the machine i am working on 01:18:30 so i don't really want to go through ssh 01:19:49 proun [n=proun@c-75-75-22-172.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:15 has anyone heard of any projects to get cl-memcached running on sbcl? 01:21:38 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-114-52.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 01:21:55 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:16 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:23:35 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-116-165.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:33 -!- Mezner-athome [n=Mezner@c-24-99-183-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:31 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:00 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:57 unicode [n=user@95.214.92.233] has joined #lisp 01:34:55 -!- ephcon [n=ephcon@student166-58.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:58 drewc: One thing bugging me with yaclml, which I plan to look into in the near future, is the way it emits closing angle brackets on a fresh line. Is that intentional? 01:36:05 austinh: yes, it's actually the recommended and 'proper' way to emit xml indentation 01:36:21 drewc: Oh, I had no idea. Thanks! 01:36:32 austinh: whitespace is semantically significant inside some tags 01:37:00 I am surprised that I haven't come across that before. 01:37:01 many a css layout problem has been caused becuase of poor indentation :) 01:37:14 austinh: it's not widely known, for some reason. 01:37:40 think about a PRE tag or a textarea 01:37:56 this especially matters if you turn off indentation when you deliver 01:38:22 (yaclml can do this, and can also do the 'wrong' way of indenting IIRC) 01:38:45 -!- proun [n=proun@c-75-75-22-172.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:40:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:36 drewc: Where is it recommended? 01:41:49 unicode_ [n=user@95.214.84.15] has joined #lisp 01:41:59 austinh: i'm looking for the link 01:43:31 rares [n=rares@174-17-94-251.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:27 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-145-54.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:48:34 austinh: i can't find the reference at all, but the gist of it is "that's the price you pay for indentation" 01:48:51 drewc: Ok, interesting. 01:49:39 austinh: it's either do it like that, or settle for breaking some tags 01:51:18 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:02 drewc: That makes sense now. Thanks for explaining. 01:55:11 JonSmith [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:06 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.92.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:58 I'm using sbcl with slime and the contribs loaded however it says it doesn't know how to "(require 'myname)" asdf is loaded, but I just want a simple require for the moment. What am I missing? 01:57:29 jsfb: the part where you tell ASDF where your myname.asd is. 01:57:47 unicode [n=user@95.214.48.22] has joined #lisp 01:57:52 doesn't it default to the current dir? 01:58:08 is that what it says in the asdf manual? 01:58:35 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:46 who knows, I don't have the asdf manual 01:58:56 ... 01:59:19 I thought require (which I've used in other lisps) wasn't part of asdf 01:59:38 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 01:59:58 jsfb: require's default policy is implementation-specific 02:00:00 clhs require 02:00:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_provid.htm 02:00:10 it's not, it's part of common lisp... but it's 02:00:15 what he said 02:00:16 unless you provide an explicit pathname in which case it's just a load-once tool 02:00:46 sbcl's policy is to try contribs and then(?) asdf 02:01:15 kpreid: contribs are loaded via asdf though.. no? 02:02:34 I am not sure how they are loaded, haven't dug into it. I just setup an .emacs load as recommended 02:03:00 anyway, nothing is broken but my situational awareness 02:03:18 jsfb: i bet the ASDF manual might enlighten you, perhaps there is some way to search for it's existence? 02:03:27 its 02:03:32 I'm sure I can find it that's notta prob 02:04:10 I just didn't want to have to... I don't really even need the (require feature right now, just thought it would be convenient etc. later I would 02:04:25 need it but not at this point 02:04:47 anyway it's all good 02:05:18 i'm willing to bet you could have found the answer by searching google for, say, the asdf manual in less time then i've taken from you by continually pointing you in that direction :) 02:08:21 drewc: I don't think it's reasonable to leap to "read about asdf" starting from sbcl's require 02:08:30 -!- unicode_ [n=user@95.214.84.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:45 I mean, it's a plausible path, but it's not something everyone should think of 02:08:56 drewc: and no, contribs are not loaded via asdf 02:10:14 kpreid: maybe i was mistaken in assuming 'myname was his jsfb's own asdf system, i was under the assumption that require was a red herring.... 02:10:42 unicode_ [n=user@95.214.13.201] has joined #lisp 02:10:52 my picture of the scenario is 'jsfb wants to write a thing which is loaded by require' 02:11:18 I've seen the asdf manual earlier on the web, and frankly I just want something much simpler. just a "load file" if it's not loaded yet. 02:11:24 and the reason being that require looked like a simple builtin way to do that 02:11:31 ephcon [n=ephcon@student164-19.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:11:48 I'm not using packages or anything, just a one time include mechanism when loading a file for some utility functions etc 02:11:52 jsfb: you can always do (load "/path/to/lisp/file.lisp"). 02:11:52 that makes sense to me yeah. Still, asdf is the answer isn't it. :) 02:11:53 jsfb: as it happens, require *doesn't* do load-if-it's-not-loaded, unless your file *also* does (provide 'modulename) 02:12:38 jsfb: you should be using packages too.. packages are your friend. :) 02:12:43 Ididn't want to redundantly load lithper2 I wanted it guarded so it wouldn't recompile or load etc 02:12:46 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:13:08 jsfb: the simplest way to get that really is to use asdf 02:13:11 I will use packages when it is needed 02:13:22 you can always compile it, and then loaded. 02:13:26 load it* 02:13:53 (defvar *load* (load ....)) 02:14:02 drewc: ha 02:14:05 :D 02:14:33 jsfb: (defsystem :my-system :components ((:file "my-file"))) > my-thing.asd and you're *done* 02:14:51 er, inconsistent names, sorry 02:15:03 (defsystem :my-system :components ((:file "my-file"))) > my-system.asd 02:15:06 jsfb: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 02:15:09 and (require :my-system) will work, then, too 02:15:44 yeah, I see require is depreciated, but what is the standard alternative? 02:15:53 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.212.178] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 02:15:56 asdf is the standard alternative :-) 02:16:05 asdf is part of CL? 02:16:09 yes 02:16:18 there is no CL-standard mechanism to replace require 02:16:23 it's just not part of ANSI 02:16:33 asdf is the de facto standard 02:16:43 oh, so it's just popular 02:17:35 it's academic anyway because I won't be writing nor delivering anything anyone else would use anyway 02:17:39 jsfb: deprecated not depreciated 02:18:00 yes, mind fart 02:18:25 yes, if by popular you mean 'shipped with many lisps as the standard system definition facility' and 'used by 100% of libraries you're going to want to use', then yeah, it's just popular... you are free to ignore it 02:18:29 jsfb: That link above I find very useful even if not delivering--makes it very easy to pick u pthe project again later, or include it in another one. And it integrates very nicely with slime;. 02:18:47 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:19:03 I mean by popular is that it isn't MANDATED by a standard and others could choose to do something else and still be standard 02:19:15 so yes, that is what I mean 02:19:35 sigh. 02:19:38 jsfb: people can also choose not to use CL-the-standard 02:19:49 or parts thereof 02:20:04 I will be using asdf on pragmatic terms 02:20:10 if you just want to install ASDF packages, this tutorial is great for beginners http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf-install/tutorial/setup.html 02:21:43 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@c-98-234-48-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:42 unicode__ [n=user@95.214.27.96] has joined #lisp 02:24:14 -!- rickmode [n=rick@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:25:54 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.48.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:03 -!- Tordek [i=tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ppjzqkyesghabgxb] has quit ["leaving"] 02:26:18 Tordek [i=tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-xyfbqpcuugmajncx] has joined #lisp 02:27:47 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:28:50 -!- ephcon [n=ephcon@student164-19.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:09 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:29:46 -!- fiveop__ [n=fiveop@g229179219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 02:32:15 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:33:37 -!- unicode_ [n=user@95.214.13.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:34:11 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:12 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:53 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:49 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:52:16 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:53:00 -!- mwilliams_ [n=mwilliam@rrcs-67-53-221-154.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 02:54:02 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:59:16 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:33 lukego [n=lukegorr@119.110.101.218] has joined #lisp 03:01:17 -!- pjb [n=t@90.Red-88-30-103.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:01:28 pjb [n=t@90.Red-88-30-103.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:33 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 03:08:17 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 03:12:38 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440502.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:12:54 anyone have thoughts on cl-store? is it any good? 03:15:21 hefner: the serialization code in rucksack is better, imo. It's easily extracted achieve cl-store functionality if you don't need identity and indexing 03:15:40 but i've used cl-store and it works well for what it does 03:16:08 yeah, I don't need a database, transactions, or the like, just "dump/restore these objects to a file" 03:17:59 cl-store works as advertised... though make sure your code includes a 'backup the old store before overwriting it' step 03:22:57 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-8-114.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:40 tankrim [n=qsvans@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 03:26:33 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:33:26 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-243-237-2.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:36:37 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:16 brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:53 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:39:40 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:40:17 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:40:41 Levenson [n=Levenson@91.185.12.110] has joined #lisp 03:40:58 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@91.185.12.110] has left #lisp 03:43:42 -!- JonSmith [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:47:26 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-114-52.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:47:29 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.192] has joined #lisp 03:51:44 -!- booh51464 [i=PDuKr1Rr@2001:470:1f11:3ec:7c0d:1b53:acb3:ea6b] has quit [Client Quit] 03:59:46 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qudgulosdfmqmdch] has joined #lisp 04:00:24 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qudgulosdfmqmdch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:49 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:12 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-prrmtwqaqkvmjyjy] has joined #lisp 04:04:12 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 04:18:29 -!- marioxcc-AFK [n=user@200.92.23.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:24 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:19:25 -!- brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:19:38 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-219.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:23:48 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 04:25:15 kupad [n=kupad@dsl254-079-179.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:48 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:33:14 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:51 -!- unicode__ [n=user@95.214.27.96] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:41:51 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:42:50 -!- cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["sleep"] 04:45:37 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 04:51:08 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 04:59:07 ianmcorv1dae|alt [n=ianmcorv@pool-74-106-69-116.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:48 xfmzamu [n=cbguozzc@dsl-220-253-78-208.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:06:10 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit [] 05:06:32 fack. 05:06:37 +R plz 05:06:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:19 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:07:27 drewc: ping 05:07:30 Xof? 05:07:34 Xach? 05:07:36 :) 05:07:39 -!- xfmzamu [n=cbguozzc@dsl-220-253-78-208.NSW.netspace.net.au] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:08:47 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 05:08:57 ok, i'm lagged but i'm on it 05:08:58 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 05:09:03 waiting for chanserv to catch up with me 05:09:07 -!- drewc has set mode +r 05:09:09 thx 05:09:18 ok trying to find an SBCL with working backtraces on OSX and preferably x86-64. downgrading to the .30 release didn't work. trying nyef's git tree next 05:09:22 is +r what we decided on last night? 05:09:24 I think you want a capital R there. 05:09:29 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:54 Fade: which is which? i should read up on this stuff! 05:10:31 ok, so I'm trying to get asdf to build from the slime ,load-system command and it can't find the .asd file. where does the path config go? (swank,slime,env,sbcl wtf?) lol 05:11:40 -!- drewc has set mode +R 05:11:51 -!- drewc has set mode -r 05:12:00 hope that works well enough 05:12:08 yes, +R silences not ided 05:14:45 sorry. disconnect 05:14:56 kencausey is right. 05:16:01 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 05:16:28 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 05:17:04 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:18:07 -!- jsfb [n=jon@96.241.6.67] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:24:17 brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:40 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:26:27 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 05:32:39 digijohn [n=digi@cpe-72-230-244-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:54 Hi guys, I'm having a bit of trouble with SLIME on Debian 05:33:06 When I start it (M-x slime), I get this: 05:33:15 ; loading #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp" 05:33:21 debugger invoked on a SB-C::INPUT-ERROR-IN-COMPILE-FILE in thread #: 05:33:36 actually, let me paste it 05:34:00 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.192] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:34:05 Perhaps someone has a more useful comment, but in my experience the advice is always to use the development head of slime and ignore what's in distributions, even Debian 05:34:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/94077 here's what I get 05:35:44 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-138-192-108.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:02 kencausey: I'd like to keep everything in package management, so I think I'll see if anybody has a different suggestion :) Thanks 05:38:01 -!- lithper2 [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:38:23 lithper2 [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:38 I'm a long time Debian user and share that preference, but it's not always reasonable in practice. Slime has to often change quickly since a number of emacs versions are often used at once and many scheme/lisp versions changing at varying paces. 05:41:33 I would say it is at least worth a try to see if the latest version fixes your problem, it would be the fastest way I think. 05:41:38 -!- lithper2 [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 05:41:38 mgst11 [n=mgst11@c-24-60-190-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:02 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:47 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:45:46 well, thanks, I'll see if I'm feeling masochistic enough to use Lisp again--all you have to do is pick your implementation, get it installed, install the CVS version instead, download SLIME, set it up, download the other Lisp implementation instead because the first one didn't work, get the new version of SLIME, and then figure out why your asdf packages won't load! 05:45:50 :) 05:46:00 -!- digijohn [n=digi@cpe-72-230-244-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:46:20 could be worse 05:47:07 Had he stuck around long enough, we could have told him we automated that procedure with clbuild. 05:49:22 lithper2_ [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:03 How can I test for whether a symbol corresponds to a class? Something like symbol-function for classes. 05:52:13 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:17 Other than calling make-instance and seeing what happens, of course. 05:52:39 find-class? 05:53:23 Zhivago: yep thanks. somehow I couldn't google to that destination. 05:55:16 APROPOS can be useful 05:55:17 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:49 wonder why it's not called symbol-class, to go along with symbol-function, symbol-value 05:56:12 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:59:50 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:01:56 -!- fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:04:32 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:08:34 -!- lithper2_ [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20100106054534]"] 06:09:41 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 06:11:11 Good morning! 06:12:22 morning 06:17:38 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:20:16 -!- tankrim [n=qsvans@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 06:22:23 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-3-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:27:23 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has joined #lisp 06:28:17 tankrim [n=qsvans@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:32:30 felideon_ [n=user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 06:36:22 -!- tankrim [n=qsvans@c-62ffe255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:38:12 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-11-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:38:21 adu [n=ajr@pool-173-66-8-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:56 -!- kupad [n=kupad@dsl254-079-179.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:28 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:43:41 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:43:55 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:47 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 06:50:05 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.17] has joined #lisp 06:50:14 nha [n=prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:51:30 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:53:30 Phooodus [i=foo@97-124-117-72.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:27 -!- felideon_ [n=user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:11 -!- mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.73.139] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:58:17 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:59:43 -!- Draggor is now known as Dra`vi 07:00:08 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.64.49] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:02:34 rickmode [n=rick@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:07 rickmode_ [n=rick@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:10:31 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 07:10:37 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@97-124-117-72.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:31 slyrus [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 07:11:37 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@79.102.7.191] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:02 -!- rickmode_ [n=rick@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:37 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:49 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:12:53 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:50 Axius [n=ghi@92.82.90.43] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.166.91] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:02 -!- Axius [n=ghi@92.82.90.43] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:21:00 -!- rickmode [n=rick@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:49 -!- Kludgy [n=therealk@S01060018f85956c8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:00 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.66.183] has joined #lisp 07:26:09 so how come './clbuild lisp' can do (require :sb-bsd-sockets), but './clbuild dumpcore cl-ppcre alexandria cffi ; ./clbuild preloaded' can't? 07:26:12 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:26:54 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.17] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:28:10 Axius [n=ghi@92.82.90.43] has joined #lisp 07:29:54 konr` [n=user@187.88.86.241] has joined #lisp 07:30:19 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:37 SBCL_HOME not set up correctly in the latter case? 07:38:16 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:08 jsnell++ :) 07:42:00 I'm currently reading http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-parsing-binary-files.html and I kinda don't understand if it's just for demonstration purposes or reading binary structures really has to be that high-tech 07:45:03 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:50:17 -!- konr [n=user@187.88.50.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:45 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:07 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 good morning 07:55:01 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit ["leaving"] 07:56:26 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo3.132.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:38 splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-bzevqxzvizjygzzt] has joined #lisp 07:56:43 morning 07:56:57 arguably not! 07:57:55 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:58:48 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:00:35 Reaver1 [n=Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:01:26 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-117-39.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:12 ejs [n=eugen@109-167-7-95.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:06:17 I wanted to place tests in a separate package, but asdf doesn't recompile when the :depends-on package changes. Is there a canonical way to deal with this? I see asdf-dependency-grovel; no documentation 08:10:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 08:12:18 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:14:19 luis: how many portugese lispers called "luis oliveira" do you know? 08:17:44 cadabra [n=cadabra@c-174-52-81-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:04 lithper2_ [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:17 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:36 -!- Axius [n=ghi@92.82.90.43] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:20:52 gah, no overnight fix for the ROUND brokenness :-( 08:24:23 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:25:01 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 08:28:04 -!- rme [rme@clozure-51821EF0.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:28:04 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:28:26 -!- fatblueduck [n=chris@71.104.235.97] has left #lisp 08:28:47 -!- crod [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:28:57 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:58 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:32:35 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-185-158.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 08:33:39 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:34:46 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:36:09 unicode [n=user@95.214.37.207] has joined #lisp 08:36:23 -!- nha [n=prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:36:39 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-25-83-129.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:38:38 -!- ejs [n=eugen@109-167-7-95.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:38:44 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 08:43:14 I'm learning how to use asdf-install:install but it seems like there are so many error messages I have to manually tell it how to fix it. Is this normal? 08:44:29 brennanc: do you have asdf-install up and running? 08:44:56 it's doing something so I would assume so but I'm new to all this so I could be doing something wrong 08:45:27 I have to hit the same key over and over just for it to compile 1 macro 08:45:39 must have hit it over 50 times and it is still prompting me 08:45:40 are you installing a certain package? 08:45:55 (asdf-install:install :araneida) 08:45:56 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.37.207] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:45:58 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 08:48:26 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:49:01 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:49:59 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 08:50:51 Good morning! 08:50:59 hello spiaggia 08:51:58 I prefer to manually make asd symlinks into my central registry; that way I can easily switch different versions. I never actually tried asdf-install; just looked like overkill to unpack a tarball and make a symlink. 08:52:38 brennanc: the compilation step seems to fail. 08:52:59 on your end? 08:53:03 yes 08:53:16 k 08:53:27 "Symbol "WITH-ENABLED-INTERRUPTS" not found in the SB-SYS package." 08:53:40 yes that's the same place it kept failing 08:53:56 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:03 I had a similiar problem with hunchentoot with it complaining that it was compiled for x86 and needs x86_64 08:54:15 I had to hit recompile a bunch of times but it eventually went through 08:54:28 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:30 major pain that you can't just say ALWAYS do that 08:54:51 your sbcl is too new 08:54:56 you can't really install it if symbols are missings or things are just incorrect. 08:55:24 brennanc: i had similar experience installing older software on SBCL, and it seems like changes to SBCL are the cause. 08:56:11 somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 08:56:29 the morale: don't use unexported symbols from internal packages 08:56:43 btw, is SBCL on track in any way to support Windows threading at some point in the reasonably near future? 08:56:49 not sure what that means 08:56:54 even better: don't use araneida! 08:57:09 what do most people use for developing web apps? 08:57:14 i think i'm the maintainer of that too, and i have not touched it in years 08:57:18 hunchentoot 08:57:23 brennanc: i had success installing hunchentoot without any problems. 08:57:26 k 08:57:53 araneida... wherever did you get that idea? :) 08:58:03 cliki? 08:58:13 no idea. I'm completely new to lisp and am just trying things out. 08:58:29 learning emacs on top of it at the same time :) 08:58:43 first i tried portable allegroserve, since it was mentioned in practical common lisp, but that doesn't work on the newest sbcl. 08:58:46 does cliki still mention it as a viable project? I should do some cliki gnoming 08:59:10 paserve is junk too.. pity there was no hunchentoot when gigamonkey wrote pcl 08:59:10 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:26 I don't remember where I saw it but wherever it was, it was talking about it in a favorable light and it sounded better than hunchentoot so I thought I would give it a try 09:06:08 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757c6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:44 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:51 yeah I also wonder if SBCL will make it to Windows. Otherwise it would probably be the de facto CL implementation, at least on the freeware side. 09:08:36 sbcl is already on Windows 09:08:52 just no threads, and possibly some other things 09:09:07 we've been using it as a lisp dev platform on windows without hitting any bugs 09:10:06 deploying to sbcl linux without any change in behavior that we've detected 09:10:13 pr_ [n=pr@li151-63.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:21 -!- pr_ [n=pr@li151-63.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:11:23 we do we need a de facto CL implementation? 09:11:39 Well just going by sbcl.org, "port in progress" and "experimental" do not suggest "already on windows" in the normal meaning of the phrase. 09:11:52 *drewc* uses CCL, SBCL and sometimes clisp 09:13:46 Phooodus: there are no active plans to do any SBCL windows development, to my knowledge 09:13:59 drewc: I didn't suggest we need one. But it obviously helps with the balkization / thinning of labor problem. Already discussion ad infinitum. 09:14:01 t 09:14:15 *discussed 09:14:22 there are people who would consider doing work on SBCL for Windows, given an incentive 09:14:31 kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 09:15:50 HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:15:55 mgst11: _if_ that's a problem 09:16:51 *drewc* is seeing monads everywhere... must be time for bed 09:16:52 drewc: it's the permanent problem for all projects at all times everywhere 09:16:59 Krystof: ok, thanks for the info 09:17:26 meaning, always need more developers, always. 09:17:34 Any ballpark estimate on what scale of development effort SBCL needs in order to get threads on windows? 09:17:36 nonsense 09:17:44 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.66.183] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:17:49 Phooodus: I'm not a Windows expert, I'm afraid 09:17:50 one dedicated guy for a few months? years of open-ended research to get around weird windows limitations? 09:17:59 ok 09:18:08 more like one good person for a few months, I think 09:18:09 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 09:18:41 Nikodemus (at sb-studio) would be where I'd suggest you start, to get some kind of professional estimate 09:18:54 *Phooodus* notes that for future reference 09:19:34 YOME [n=user@ariadne.enseirb.fr] has joined #lisp 09:20:44 -!- YOME [n=user@ariadne.enseirb.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:22:42 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.183] has joined #lisp 09:25:54 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:32:47 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-150-218.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:32:53 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:34:18 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:36 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:35:15 -!- mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:32 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:38:06 -!- brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:38:29 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-189-17.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 09:46:00 -!- mgst11 [n=mgst11@c-24-60-190-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:49:28 morning folks 09:51:11 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:46 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:54:11 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-185-158.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:35 somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 10:03:14 -!- lithper2_ [n=chatzill@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:07:44 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:09:30 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-25-83-129.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:11:04 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-26-61-95.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:11:27 hello 10:12:23 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:42 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:23:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:24:01 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 10:26:15 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:35:33 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:17 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:40:12 hdurer_ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-vqibqyqogpsimpnv] has joined #lisp 10:42:47 hdurer__ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-unctrbcfkxyxxivs] has joined #lisp 10:43:29 -!- kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:43:53 -!- hdurer__ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-unctrbcfkxyxxivs] has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:48 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:46:09 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:47:18 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:47:22 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757c6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:49:00 kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 10:49:27 -!- Legooolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 10:50:09 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 10:53:13 ericklc [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 10:53:51 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 10:53:59 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:56:00 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:57:28 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 10:58:21 billstclai [n=billstcl@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 10:58:39 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:47 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.39] has joined #lisp 10:59:05 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:59:23 -!- billstclai [n=billstcl@gw3.tacwap.org] has left #lisp 10:59:41 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:00:01 Hi, does anyone know how to create a directory from CL? Portably would be great - but just from SBCL would be fine too. 11:00:32 ensure-directory-exists 11:01:27 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:49 Thanks! 11:02:09 isn't that ensure-directories-exist ? 11:02:23 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm 11:03:07 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 11:03:15 ... with the effect of "mkdir -p" style behaviour, which can be very annoying. 11:03:26 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit ["leaving"] 11:05:27 kencausey: it's e-d-e, but no specbot here 11:05:54 iolib's ISYS:%SYS-MKDIR is portable between lisps (albeit not windows, I guess) 11:09:22 clhs ensure-directories-exist 11:09:38 specbot: clhs ensure-directories-exist 11:09:40 it's +R and specbot isn't registered 11:09:47 Oh, right, I see 11:09:57 and specbot would understand clhs e-d-e 11:10:42 Thanks, I didn't realize (had forgotten) that 11:11:35 myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-127-67.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 11:11:44 -!- kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:14:19 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:33 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:21:44 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:33 spoke [n=msw@75-101-102-192.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:18 -!- spoke [n=msw@75-101-102-192.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 11:25:30 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:25:42 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:27:09 -!- myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-189-17.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:31:16 Kenjin [n=josesant@bl7-105-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:33:05 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 11:35:09 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.216.204] has joined #lisp 11:36:58 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:37:27 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 11:38:16 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:20 -!- Reaver1 [n=Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:40:01 Reaver1 [n=Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:42:56 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:19 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:44:31 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-117-39.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:15 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:52:15 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52:35 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:57:17 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:59:55 lichtblau: don't you usually want "mkdir -p" (+ sanity check that you can actually write in the directory?) 12:00:44 *Xach* uses and loves ensure-directories-exist 10,000 times per day 12:02:41 :) 12:04:02 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:06 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:43 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:11 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:02 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:18 kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 12:13:59 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:16:28 unix philosophy dictates that there should be a dedicated tool for that, that only does e-d-e but does it _well_! 12:16:47 tcr: perhaps there are people who want that, but I'm not one of them 12:16:51 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:10 (it's called "install", I think) 12:19:05 E-D-E would successfully, say, create stuff in the directory "how US Windows names the start menu" instead of "how DE Windows names the start menu", and that's isn't the right behaviour. The correct behaviour is to use the right directory name, and if the program has a bug there, it should fail instead of silently doing the right thing. 12:19:22 It's even worse for user-specified file and directory names. 12:19:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:43 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:20:44 Fundamentally, it seems correct to have E-D-E, but implement it on top of MAKE-DIRECTORY and FILE-TYPE (because that's how it gets translated to syscalls anyway), rather than emulate MAKE-DIRECTORY on top of E-D-E and file type. 12:20:54 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:21:11 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:45 That some lispm decades ago perhaps had E-D-E in what corresponded to "syscalls" there isn't a good argument imho. 12:23:24 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:23:43 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:24:36 lichtblau: feel free to open a ticket on bugs.launchpad.net/iolib/. make-directory is missing 12:26:06 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-2.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:28:03 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:29:51 skeptomai|awa- [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:14 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-26-61-95.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:26 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:38:52 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:01 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:41:35 -!- adu [n=ajr@pool-173-66-8-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 12:41:36 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@85-220-123-10.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 12:46:11 gibranian1 [n=gibrania@88.238.39.143] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:53:45 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 12:54:04 -!- gibranian1 [n=gibrania@88.238.39.143] has left #lisp 12:54:54 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.39.143] has joined #lisp 12:55:15 -!- myrkraverk`` [n=johann@85-220-123-10.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:55:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 12:57:55 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-127-67.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:21 -!- skeptomai|awa- [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:34 skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:25 I need some matrix library. Which one would be easy to install and use for beginners? 13:01:54 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:04:33 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-184-101.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 13:06:55 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:07:21 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 13:09:40 -!- delYsid [n=user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:26 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:10:39 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-prrmtwqaqkvmjyjy] has left #lisp 13:11:26 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:14:49 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:50 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:14:54 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757c6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:11 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:16:03 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7E47.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:16:22 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 13:17:39 -!- hdurer_ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-vqibqyqogpsimpnv] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:38 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:19:05 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-183-246.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.39.143] has left #lisp 13:20:26 -!- madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:34 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:54 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:55 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:28:48 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:29:17 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:30:35 benny [n=benny@i577A3451.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:52 morning 13:31:56 hello silenius 13:32:42 When I click on the 1.0.29 binary for Linux AMD46 on the SBCL download page, I get to the `files' directory instead, and I don't see any binary for AMD64. Is this normal? 13:32:49 -!- HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:40 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1441.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:35:26 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-184-101.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:20 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:51 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 -!- Phooodus [i=foo@97-124-117-72.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:08 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-2.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 -!- Reaver1 [n=Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:40:45 hello, I'm having trouble with emacs not indenting my lisp code, I have to add a tab everytime I start a new line in order to get indention which is rather silly 13:40:55 my .emacs file is rather empty 13:41:25 your lisp code is in what file ? 13:41:28 bulibuta: are you not using slime? 13:41:31 how is it named ? 13:41:36 bulibuta: i bind return to newline-and-indent. 13:41:39 does it end with .el .elisp or so ? 13:41:41 myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-125-135.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 13:41:52 http://paste.lisp.org/+20LN 13:41:58 bulibuta: maybe you want paredit 13:42:00 do you have lisp-mode active ? 13:42:20 sepult: or my lisp files have .lisp as extension 13:42:26 spiaggia: I'm using slime 13:42:27 (add-hook 'lisp-mode-hook 13:42:27 (lambda () 13:42:27 (local-set-key (kbd "RET") 'newline-and-indent))) 13:42:39 ah 13:43:15 and I also can't get basic functionality from inferior-lisp, such as function completion or going back and forward through history 13:43:26 that's why I decided to switch to sbcl from clisp 13:43:30 use the slime-repl 13:44:21 also the sbcl `debugger' shows only one option when triggered: exit, whereas with clisp I got between 4 and 10 options that were useful. like replace value etc. 13:44:33 (slime-repl) in my .emacs? 13:45:04 bulibuta: sbcl has in general fewer restarts 13:45:15 bulibuta: some errors have more restarts than others 13:45:35 yeap, I noticed that with clips. but sbcl has only exit 13:45:36 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:45:43 bulibuta: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Loading-Contribs.html#Loading-Contribs 13:45:45 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:45:53 well, it might be my large stupidity :-) 13:47:04 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440502.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:47:08 adeht: thank you 13:47:22 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:48:01 madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:48:20 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:49:38 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:39 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:52:16 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@pool-74-106-95-100.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:19 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:56:11 Reaver1 [n=Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:57:40 -!- myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-183-246.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:41 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit ["asdf"] 13:58:28 yay, the autoindent stuff works like a charm 13:58:57 I think I have to kill sbcl before I can try the slime-fancy stuff, because I get the same behaviour 13:59:10 and I can't find anything related to sbcl with pgrep 13:59:46 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:42 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:01:38 bulibuta: it totally sucks to work with default slime configuration.. I can think of just a single person who likes them 14:01:45 (the defaults) 14:03:06 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 -!- ianmcorv1dae|alt [n=ianmcorv@pool-74-106-69-116.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:06:35 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-75-208.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 14:09:33 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-4-22.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:45 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-125-135.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:20 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:35 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:13:37 adeht: it seems so, and when I go searching for .emacs examples they're all very extensive and most of them contain slime functions that are no longer available.. meh 14:14:30 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.210] has joined #lisp 14:16:26 felideon [n=user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:16:32 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:17:46 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:10 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:55 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-76-169.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 14:19:14 *splittist* belatedly realises that iPad/iPadNano (fka iPhone) is great news for the next lispOS/lisp machine: you really can start with a blank slate [see what I did there?] and, if it's good enough*, They Will Come. 14:19:37 Does anyone know where I can find a resonably recent binary SBCL for Linux AMD64? 14:19:51 (* of course, 'good enough' is one of those 'Nobody knows anything'/'Worse is Better' things.) 14:20:27 splittist: heh, I haven't seen anyone really interested that much in the ipad yet. Amazing how bad this was received 14:20:31 yet their stock went up. 14:20:47 spiaggia: http://sbcl.org/platform-table.html will have the most recent official binary 14:21:03 hmm...nm it actually went up 14:21:09 err went down...gah 14:21:40 Krystof: Yes, but that particular entry doesn't work. But never mind I found it. 14:21:47 <_deepfire> spiaggia, I have a 1.0.34 x86-64 binary generated by the SBCL buildbot. 14:22:17 _deepfire: Oh, good! Where can I find it? 14:22:39 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:48 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 14:22:49 Krystof: yes, overnight fix re ROUND. Just have to commit the two-liner. 14:23:39 <_deepfire> spiaggia, sbcl.feelingofgreen.ru, can't give a direct URL now 14:23:48 -!- NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-220-17.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:05 <_deepfire> spiaggia, http://feelingofgreen.ru/sbcl/builds/linux-x86_64/sbcl-1.0.34.tgz 14:24:15 _deepfire: threads? 14:24:31 <_deepfire> Xach, default settings, I guess, but I'm not really sure 14:24:32 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:24:59 _deepfire: Thanks! not the .2 then? 14:25:02 *_deepfire* relaunches the buildbot 14:25:25 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.192] has joined #lisp 14:25:26 <_deepfire> spiaggia, oh, I missed that one 14:25:55 hr, 14:26:04 Hmm..few documents on what this is - is it integration with the python library buildbot? 14:26:17 why might i be getting the error "the function defpackage is undefined" :/ the file only contains (defpackage :foo) 14:26:24 adeht: those options from slime-setup don't seem to do anything for me 14:26:30 its still the same behaviour 14:27:57 <_deepfire> Xach, I just looked at http://feelingofgreen.ru:8010/sbcl-linux-x86_64/builds/469/step-compile/0, and yes, recet X86_64 builds have :sb-thread 14:29:08 _deepfire: thanks 14:29:27 HET2: (cl:defpackage :foo) should work. 14:29:38 pkhuong: ok, good 14:29:39 thanks 14:29:40 oh - forgot to :use :cl then 14:29:44 HET2: right. 14:29:50 thanks so much 14:30:16 Krystof: I'm in no state to commit for at least ~8 hours. 14:30:25 that's ok 14:30:38 can you send it for review? 14:30:51 -!- kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:15 I can test it on my pile of software 14:33:05 Is is because I ran the SBCL install script as root that nobody else got permissions on /usr/local/bin/sbcl and /usr/local/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core? 14:33:15 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:03 Xach, the problem was rather that i was using a package name like foo-bar :/ 14:35:08 apparently it doesn't like - in package names 14:35:23 Krystof: sent. 14:35:31 thanks 14:35:33 -!- myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-75-208.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:42 no scratch that 14:35:43 hrm 14:36:03 Weird! 14:36:46 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:21 HET2: that is not my experience. 14:37:33 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:37:34 Xach, yeah i am not really sure what's going wrong :/ 14:37:35 *Xach* uses ZPB-TTF all the time 14:37:36 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 14:38:27 spiaggia: check your umask (if using su or sudo) or root's umask (if using su -) 14:38:57 bulibuta: did you restart emacs 14:39:11 lichtblau: Ah, that might be it. Thanks! 14:39:36 I maintain that http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/sbcl/sbcl-1.0.29-x86-64-linux-binary-r2.tar.bz2 seems to be broken. 14:40:16 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:40:38 yes, it is 14:40:42 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-127-79.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 14:40:56 sometime a few months ago, sourceforge moved just about every file in every project's download area 14:41:18 hugod [n=hugod@207.96.182.162] has joined #lisp 14:41:54 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-44-193.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit ["asdf"] 14:42:45 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:43:08 lichtblau: Hmm, no. u=rwx,g=rx,o=rx 14:43:29 (This is mine, and I was using sudo) 14:44:32 root has the same. 14:44:59 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 14:46:39 cnhtgt [n=vuuvhc@athedsl-05047.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:47:00 -!- cnhtgt [n=vuuvhc@athedsl-05047.home.otenet.gr] has quit [K-lined] 14:47:34 adeht: yes 14:47:51 I even had to reboot the machine for an upgrade 14:49:42 bulibuta: and do you have the latest version of slime from cvs? 14:50:53 rev 1978 14:50:55 I'll update 14:53:10 up and still nothing 14:53:58 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:59 (i) paste your .emacs (ii) elaborate on "nothing" 14:54:12 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:55:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 rir [n=fbalrwuk@ti0032a380-dhcp0444.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:55:47 -!- rir [n=fbalrwuk@ti0032a380-dhcp0444.bb.online.no] has quit [K-lined] 14:56:40 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-76-169.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:57:30 http://paste.lisp.org/+20LO 14:57:53 spearalot [n=spearalo@41.130.163.168] has joined #lisp 14:57:59 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.192] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:58:07 nothing = no history, no auto-completion on the REPL 14:58:58 what buffer are you working in 14:59:44 *inferior-lisp* 14:59:56 switch to *slime-repl sbcl* 15:00:38 don't have that 15:00:55 I have *slime-events* 15:01:17 and that's about it, nothing else starts with *slime- 15:02:15 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-243-237-2.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 hmm, it seems you didn't add the contrib directory to the load-path 15:04:32 by the look of it, though, slime does it itself 15:05:57 do you get no errors? what happens when you `M-x slime-repl' ? 15:06:28 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:30 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:13:56 -!- Kenjin [n=josesant@bl7-105-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 15:14:08 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:20:37 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:24:59 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:46 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-188-160.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 15:27:00 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@119.110.101.218] has quit [] 15:29:47 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:56 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-193.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:14 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:36:07 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:36:22 Kenjin [n=josesant@242-169.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 hmm what should i read if i want to write a continuations based parser? 15:40:11 -!- Kenjin [n=josesant@242-169.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:17 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:42:08 Kenjin [n=josesant@242-169.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 rgiar [n=user@216.88.35.15] has joined #lisp 15:42:40 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-4-22.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:49 -!- myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-127-79.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:44:13 HET2: Get you a copy of Lisp in Small Pieces. 15:44:27 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:29 oh well i was thinking of more like this afternoon :) 15:45:21 Go quickly, then! 15:46:00 Xach, in the backwoods i live in i doubt i'll find it at a local store 15:46:27 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:09 adeht: I don't have that option slime-repl 15:47:17 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:47:27 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:48:08 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:48:58 Are there any good guides out there for debugging CL? I've read a bit from the sbcl manual, looked up what I could from the slime manual - but there appears to be fairly little in regards how to step through, into, and over code while in slime. 15:49:53 *Xach* hasn't stepped yet 15:50:03 -!- NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-193.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:08 *Xach* debugs by recompiling with C-u C-c C-c and looking at backtraces 15:50:25 *hefner* never steps, just traces, prints, and pokes around in the debugger 15:50:40 Yeah, that's basically what I've been doing. 15:50:50 So you are using the Technique of Champions. Carry on! 15:50:56 I wasn't sure if there was a better, more efficient, way of doing it 15:50:58 heh 15:51:21 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-193.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:56 back in the dark ages of CMUCL, we had more debug information, a smaller core size, and a working stepper. Fortunately, these days we're all much better programmers, and don't need such luxuries. 15:54:19 if you're really on top of your game, you can advance to ECL, where backtraces only work intermittently, and inspecting objects in the debugger never works right 15:55:00 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-188-160.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:56:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:13 When you put it that way, hefner, I'll switch right away! heh..nah, I'll keep going the route I'm going, it feels much simpler. 15:57:17 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:57:25 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:57:30 slyrus [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 15:57:56 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 15:57:59 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:59:19 ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-185-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:59:59 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:00:10 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:00:50 Vinnipeg [n=sa1vador@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has joined #lisp 16:01:03 konr`` [n=user@187.117.113.209] has joined #lisp 16:01:23 -!- rgiar [n=user@216.88.35.15] has left #lisp 16:01:51 kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 16:02:39 wlr [n=walt@65.96.92.150] has joined #lisp 16:05:02 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:06:35 So condition variables take a mutex; I wonder what can/should I use as a means for wait/notification functionality that does not involve a mutex because it's a lock-free algorithm? 16:13:49 -!- ericklc [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has left #lisp 16:14:04 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 16:15:55 Xach: Yesterday, I setup leafnode, that's a pretty nice package for usenet. Feels faster reading locally than querying eternal-september, plus I continued to have issues with that server so this solves that too. 16:16:09 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:41 I haven't tried posting yet to c.l.l from it yet, but it's nice for offline reading. I couldn't get it to download every article from c.l.l, though...only something like 390. 16:17:01 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 16:18:30 anyone know where I can find the formerly free PDF copy of Practical Common Lisp by Peter Seibel? 16:19:36 jroes: if the link on http://www.apress.com/book/view/1590592395 doesn't work, probably contacting apress about it might be the best way. 16:19:58 the download link isn't working for me. i'm betting that's a mistake they can fix. 16:20:11 yeah, I think they decided to start selling the PDF 16:20:40 that link also shows an eBook price of $45.49 and a "Buy eBook" link 16:20:54 jroes: They have been selling the pdf all along, and also offering it free all along. 16:21:02 oh, interesting 16:21:02 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:05 I'll contact them then 16:21:35 there's a link on the page that says "Free eBook download" 16:21:36 gigamonkey: can you comment on it? 16:21:42 dlowe: that link doesn't work for me. does it work for you? 16:21:48 I get a blank page and no download. 16:21:57 jroes: as long as you buy, or convince your local library to buy, at least one copy, I'll tell you that a simple google search will find the pdf link. 16:22:02 konr``` [n=user@187.88.114.235] has joined #lisp 16:22:03 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:32 jroes: it's OK if you send cash to gigamonkey, too (: 16:22:40 I have a copy on the way, but I prefer PDF form for ubiquitousness 16:22:57 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.86.241] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:23:03 nothing I found on google worked either. but I didn't try any sketchy torrenting or mass-download sites 16:23:04 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:23:41 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:23:52 -!- kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:43 -!- konr`` [n=user@187.117.113.209] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:28 egoz [n=Egoz@118.96.226.201] has joined #lisp 16:32:22 myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-127-17.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 16:33:39 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:16 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:24 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-127-17.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has left #lisp 16:34:25 iirc gigamonkey said it was fine if it was for reading-on-the-iphone purposes 16:34:31 :) 16:34:43 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 but to contact Apress if anything 16:35:16 You can just go to his free book, the pages, and download them to PDFs, then put them together if need be. 16:35:28 I've done that so I can read it on my kindle, and I have a paper copy at home too 16:35:36 Does anyone know of a good resource about usage difference between green and native threads? 16:35:55 *splittist* comes across http://www.apress.com/resource/bookfile/3117 (pdf) NB Not PCL, but funny. 16:37:29 splittist: oh it contains a nice reading list 16:39:11 jroes: I recommend using html copy 16:39:57 I have yet to encounter a device incapable of reading HTML (though possibly some of those weird newfangled shitty devices might have problems, I don't know :P ) 16:40:29 p_l: you must have a really fancy wristwatch, then 16:40:34 PCL is almost $60 on Amazon now??? 16:40:43 http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Common-Lisp-Peter-Seibel/dp/1590592395/ref=pd_sim_b_9 16:40:57 isn't that about what it always was? 16:41:05 dlowe: I find it easier to get a HTML-capable wristwatch than one that will read PDFs 16:41:17 martin__ [n=spearalo@41.130.8.131] has joined #lisp 16:41:31 I bought mine from Amazon for $49. 16:41:39 Kindle also should read HTML-prepared books perfectly, though you might need to get them through Mobipocket Creator 16:42:03 (unless Amazon decided to cripple any non-Amazon source of books) 16:42:10 but what of the ipad? :) 16:42:22 rsynnott: Dunno, I prefer stones to iPads :P 16:42:23 splittist: Did you hear about the vienna #lisp meeting? 16:42:26 Most modern reader thingies seem to deal with PDFs pretty well, anyway 16:42:38 http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7930/stonevsipad.jpg 16:42:39 -!- spearalot [n=spearalo@41.130.163.168] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:54 rsynnott: I'm not sure if the ipad's screen is as good as the kindles for reading books. 16:43:01 (if you have a Sony one, be sure to update the firmware, as PDF support used to be awful but is now quite good) 16:43:14 balooga: yep, almost certainly not (unless colour is an absolute requirement) 16:43:19 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:43:34 rsynnott: yes, but PDFs don't allow to reflow the document to accomodate for different displays 16:43:48 since PDFs weren't designed for online reading 16:44:56 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:45:38 How do the verbs "to offer" and "to proffer" differ in meaning? 16:46:01 rsynnott: When I first opened the box for the kindle, I was trying to find the edge of the transparency to remove the setup instructions from the kindle screen. Before I realized that the kindle was actually displaying the instructions. I was blown away. 16:46:36 <_deepfire> Ok, I have significant work-related interest in gdb-remote by Julian Stecklina. 16:47:26 <_deepfire> ..who is supposed to go as blitz_ here. 16:48:38 davazp [n=user@76.Red-88-25-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:39 brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has left #lisp 16:51:15 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:51:24 tcr: only in passing 16:51:29 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:51:51 splittist: you wouldn't like to join? 27th feb 16:52:33 rsynnott: I'm surprised to hear you say that pdf support is good. Most of the epub-based programs I've looked at do a horrible job with pdfs... 16:52:56 I've a Sony Reader which does quite impressive reflow of PDFs 16:53:07 *p_l* prefers mobipocket format - simple yet works 16:53:12 rsynnott: that's good to know. How does it do for mathmode? 16:53:31 my technical reading seems to fail horribly on these things --- they don't even get paragraph breaks right. 16:53:48 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-219.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:54:46 rpg: not brilliant for anything too exotic 16:55:06 I generally just read novels on it; if I'm reading something more technical I'll usually just do it on the computer 16:57:23 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:50 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@unaffiliated/svaksha] has quit [Client Quit] 16:58:04 tcr: see Synonims @ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/offer 16:58:48 fe[nl]ix: that's cool! thanks 16:58:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:59:16 -!- Dra`vi is now known as Draggor 16:59:56 rsynnott: I keep hoping I can read a journal paper on one of these beasts, but no dice so far. I guess if the iPad has Preview on it, I could just use that --- it's a brilliant pdf reader. 17:00:14 kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:00:57 rpg: it probably does; in my experience the iphone pdf reader generally behaves exactly like preview 17:01:00 rpg: the HP Slate should deal nicely with journal papers 17:01:25 (as well as with PostScript and just about every other format) 17:02:08 p_l: windows. Ugh. 17:02:13 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:37 I have a form which when evaluated at the repl runs fine, but when I wrap it with cl:time then it breaks at random places 17:02:38 proprietary OS - Apple design competence = ick 17:02:48 rpg: it runs any OS you want 17:02:54 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:03:19 p_l: ah. All i saw through google was ballmer bragging about it. 17:03:20 the most common misbehavior is like: 0: (LENGTH #) 17:03:22 *p_l* is also not really impressed with Apple software 17:03:28 any idea what might go wrong? 17:03:42 p_l: preview kicks butt on any other pdf reader I've seen --- including Acrobat! 17:03:44 rpg: it's basically a highly-mobile PC with multitouch screen 17:03:48 wow, x86-64 sbcl MIN/MAX on floats is *awful* 17:03:57 am I corrupting the heap somehow and cl:time brings that up or what? 17:04:01 tcr, I think semaphores are a bit like mutex-less condition variables ? 17:04:10 levente_meszaros: sbcl? platform? 17:04:20 sbcl, linux 86-64 17:04:20 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:04:44 in the sense of being a wait / notify functionality 17:05:34 I just don't have a clue what does cl:time have to do with it... the problem is probably on my side 17:06:10 but the form I running involves a pretty complicated algorithm, so it's not easy to cut it down 17:06:30 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:06:36 milanj [n=milan@77.46.249.150] has joined #lisp 17:06:48 tcr: I'll look into it. But it's twice the distance to Munchen... 17:07:16 p_l: I'll drop this as OT, but as the owner of an Android fun, I am painfully conscious of how much better Apple is at this sort of thing... 17:07:34 p_l: does it (slate thingy) actually exist yet? 17:07:46 I thought it was a pre-announcement of something which will eventually happen 17:08:11 rsynnott: the prototype is already made, but it's not yet in shops 17:10:29 -!- brennanc [n=brennanc@cpe-76-166-156-65.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:11:39 marco___ [n=marco@host143-180-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:11:43 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 17:14:25 Adlai: semaphores are usually implemented on top of mutexes+condition-variables, I'd guess 17:18:52 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:19:20 ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:19:57 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 17:19:58 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-185-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:22:54 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:23:23 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:24:01 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-185-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:25:55 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 17:26:55 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:33 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 17:27:44 *Xach* cowers 17:28:06 do we still need the +R ? 17:28:16 -!- davazp [n=user@76.Red-88-25-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:28:20 *TDT* bows to the mighty drewc 17:28:24 -!- Vinnipeg [n=sa1vador@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has left #lisp 17:28:31 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:28:31 -!- martin__ [n=spearalo@41.130.8.131] has quit [Client Quit] 17:28:35 spearalot [n=spearalo@41.130.8.131] has joined #lisp 17:28:42 dabd [n=dabd@kdbio22.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 *drewc* looks around surprised at the attention... 17:29:17 did i miss something? 17:29:33 jsfb [n=jon@pool-96-231-114-178.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 It's the +O :) 17:30:08 levente_meszaros: it is hard to tell without an example really 17:30:11 ahh, power! 17:30:23 -!- drewc has set mode -R 17:30:33 clhs identity 17:30:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_identi.htm 17:30:48 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:30:51 drewc, to clarify: +R prevents unidentified from _talking_, +r prevents from _joining_ 17:31:11 Adlai: yeah, i looked it up last night. 17:31:17 ok 17:31:24 +R prevents the floods though... right? 17:31:30 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:31:49 I'm not sure... if a bot joins a channel and gets the list of users on the channel, I think it can still send CTCP requests to each one 17:32:04 it might prevent the bot from just sending a CTCP ping to the entire channel, though 17:32:16 I have yet to see one of these floods as ERC or my proxy seems to protect me... all i see is the fallout 17:32:24 As I recall, freenode has flood protection as well. 17:32:58 I think freenode's flood protection is for a different kind of flood 17:33:36 well, during the day my time it doesn't seem to happen, and i have not having specbot... so fingers crossed. 17:33:46 it looks like for ERC, turning on erc-disable-ctcp-replies is all that's necessary 17:33:48 hate not * 17:34:04 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 17:35:13 I think specbot and lisppaste should be registered with nickserv 17:35:44 Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-229.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:55 they aren't already? 17:36:15 nope, this is why they can't talk when the channel is +R 17:36:56 I didn't even notice...but yeah, those two should be registered for sure. Server goes down, someone takes the name and registers it themself. 17:38:48 -!- Reaver1 [n=Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:39:28 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:41:30 i think chandler and nyef are the botmasters these days, next time either one is around, somebody ask! 17:41:48 -!- marco___ [n=marco@host143-180-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 17:41:57 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:42:02 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 17:42:23 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:43:06 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-sqxbmkztftpzibzg] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:24 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-54-82-251-121-229.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:15 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:19 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:52:36 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 17:52:36 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:53:17 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:24 tfb, unfortunately I can't give an example, it's way too complicated 17:53:52 konr```` [n=user@187.88.81.82] has joined #lisp 17:53:58 -!- Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:54:25 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:36 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:55:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:56:09 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-193.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:24 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:00:05 abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:01:32 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:02:37 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:04:31 normally: (component-value-of (make-inspector 'list :value (list *component-demo-application*))) -> (#) 18:04:43 but (cl:time (component-value-of (make-inspector 'list :value (list *component-demo-application*)))) -> (17592157381060 . #) 18:04:49 which is weird like hell 18:05:27 corruption of some sorts 18:05:39 I've seen such things when referencing out-of-extent dx objects 18:06:04 MrPat [n=pod@dhcp-pa-67-20-241-131.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:07:02 -!- dabd [n=dabd@kdbio22.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:23 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:08:31 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:57 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 18:11:25 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:13:20 this might be a bug in apply make-instance 18:15:43 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-98-116-202-61.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:11 -!- konr``` [n=user@187.88.114.235] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:17:27 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:18:30 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:53 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:19:31 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:20:00 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:20:19 'morning 18:20:43 Adlai`` [n=adlai@85-250-251-210.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:46 -!- Adlai`` is now known as Adlai 18:22:08 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 Adlai`` [n=adlai@85-250-251-210.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@64.134.67.11] has joined #lisp 18:23:34 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:23:52 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-28-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:24:42 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:25:22 -!- fda314925 [n=fda31492@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:25 levy pasted "BUG: contextl apply make-instance" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94103 18:27:34 it took a while to narrow down 18:28:10 anyone compiler series on CCL lately ? 18:28:17 levy annotated #94103 "there's no problem without cl:time" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94103#1 18:28:19 s/compiler/compile 18:28:50 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-3-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:28:50 lithper2_ [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 18:29:08 kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 18:29:29 Vinnipeg [n=sa1vador@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:38 does anyone have a vanilla contextl installed? 18:29:44 -!- Vinnipeg [n=sa1vador@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has left #lisp 18:30:29 abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:30:33 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-083-041.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:32:15 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:07 levente_meszaros: I do 18:33:37 fe[nl]ix, could you verify whether my paste fails for you too on vanilla contextl? 18:35:04 it does, on 1.0.33.30 18:35:15 levente_meszaros: have you tried it by just compiling the form and calling it (funcall compile nil (lambda () ....)) 18:35:23 levente_meszaros: Yeah pcos often uses dx declarations 18:35:41 cos I bet it is compiled code not TIME 18:35:54 tfb: it's sbcl 18:36:03 yeah, I just could not narrow it more 18:36:46 levente_meszaros: I'd search for dx declarations in contextl code base, comment it out, recompile, then try again 18:36:48 tcr: I reckon your dx / out of extent theory is good 18:37:13 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:37:19 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:36 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:40 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@85-250-251-210.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:45 -!- Adlai`` [n=adlai@85-250-251-210.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:41:01 tcr, you're right, I remove all and it fixed 18:41:06 will drop a mail to pascal 18:43:07 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:09 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:43:21 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.53.243] has joined #lisp 18:43:24 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:50 *levente_meszaros* must leave, thanks 18:43:51 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:52 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-150-218.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 18:45:03 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 18:46:15 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 18:47:54 *tcr* discovers the -c option for strace 18:47:57 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:06 konr [n=user@189.96.98.23] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 rths [n=abxcn@ool-457bbc55.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:45 ferfuxache. 18:49:07 -!- rths [n=abxcn@ool-457bbc55.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [K-lined] 18:50:02 moah [n=gnu@dslb-188-101-018-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 Xach, drewc, Xof 18:50:56 serverops seem to be on it. 18:51:34 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.249.150] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:51 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.39] has quit [] 18:54:59 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 18:55:03 -!- Xach has set mode +R 18:55:13 *Xach* ready on the scene 18:55:49 thansk 18:55:54 thanks* 18:57:15 kwinz3 [i=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 19:01:31 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:01:40 gz_ [n=gz@216-220-228-58.midmaine.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 19:02:44 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-llnsytchjlxxpjps] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 -!- kenjin2201 [n=kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:14 schaueho [n=user@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:20 -!- konr```` [n=user@187.88.81.82] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:08:42 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-B39B2CCB.midmaine.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 19:08:42 -!- gz_ [n=gz@216-220-228-58.midmaine.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:46 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-142-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:15:47 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:18:54 .away 19:23:11 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:25 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 19:29:38 gonzojive_ [n=red@c-98-234-48-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:11 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-117-39.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:26 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-79-112-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:34:32 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 19:36:48 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:24 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 19:42:34 Re-evaluating a defpackage seems to lock up my connection to a remote swank. 19:42:40 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:42:51 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:52 austinh: that's a bug in a recent sbcl 19:43:01 stassats: ah, thanks! 19:43:03 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:13 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:26 can i use arbitrary lisp code in conditions like "#+sbcl" ? i'd like to check for a specific version of sbcl 19:43:57 clhs #. 19:43:57 #+#.(if foo #+(or) #+(and)) 19:44:09 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:44:12 demmeln: You should rather check for a specific property, if possible 19:44:17 oh we're +R again 19:44:29 demmeln: e.g. the existence, or absence, of a certain symbol 19:46:02 astalla [n=astalla@93-36-229-87.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 I need to check whether AUGMENT-ENVIRONMENT is implemented, which happend in 1.0.30.28 19:47:33 schaueho_ [n=schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:57 demmeln: see with-symbol in swank-backend.lisp, and its uses in swank-sbcl.lisp 19:48:16 #+#.(if (find-symbol "AUGMENT-ENVIRONMENT" "SB-FOO") #+(and) #+(or))foo 19:48:32 cl:if and cl:find-symbol 19:48:43 uuuuuuuuugly 19:49:03 xffff [n=fffff@88.130.214.250] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 -!- schaueho [n=user@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:03 and s/#+/'/ 19:50:03 -!- schaueho_ [n=schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 19:50:13 #.`(...) is nyef's new favourite idiom. 19:50:33 schaueho [n=schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:08 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:03 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:13 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:57:31 adlai_ [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:57:36 francogrex [n=user@240.140-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:57:40 Hi all 19:57:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:55 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:58:15 fatblueduck [n=chris@71.104.235.97] has joined #lisp 19:58:45 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:00:19 gz_ [n=gz@216-220-228-58.midmaine.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@64.134.67.11] has quit [] 20:02:48 -!- Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-229.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:59 LiamH1 [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:06:13 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:17 -!- LiamH1 [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:03 -!- snorble [n=none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 20:08:38 schaueho_ [n=user@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:54 #+#.(cl:if (cl:find-symbol "AUGMENT-ENVIRONMENT" "SB-FOO") (cl:and) (cl:or))foo 20:11:19 '(cl:and) 20:11:48 i used '(and) not '(cl:and) 20:11:56 and fboundp not find-symbol 20:11:59 -!- gz_ [n=gz@216-220-228-58.midmaine.com] has left #lisp 20:12:04 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:18 Thanks for the help! 20:12:53 how did you use fboundp? 20:13:19 #+(and sbcl #.(cl:if (cl:fboundp 'sb-cltl2::augment-environmentt) 20:13:19 '(cl:or) 20:13:19 '(cl:and))) :foo 20:13:42 that won't cut it in case sb-cltl2 is a locked package 20:14:28 oh it used to be exported before it was actually defined 20:14:36 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 20:14:45 AUGMENT-ENVIRONMENT i mean 20:15:29 Ok, still, I'd copy with-symbol from swank-backend.lisp into your code base 20:15:51 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:16:24 Perhaps it should be added to alexandria (with a better name, though) 20:16:44 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.53.243] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:19:09 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:53 -!- schaueho [n=schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:05 So I wonder when can a process be preempted by the kernel scheduler? 20:20:16 -!- ceineke_ [n=chris@24.235.36.231] has left #lisp 20:20:31 how about this to be safe: http://paste.lisp.org/+20M4 20:20:36 Why doesn't it (or does it?) involve the same problems like interrupt-thread? 20:20:37 snorble [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:39 tcr: i need this in an asd file 20:21:20 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 20:21:36 demmeln: Uhm sure you can't move it into a .lisp file? 20:22:31 tcr: i guess i could 20:22:40 -!- adlai_ [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has left #lisp 20:23:00 tcr> 20:24:01 tcr: i remember having an reason to put it in the asd file. But I cant remember it so I guess I was wrong back then... 20:25:22 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-083-041.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:49 tcr: I'll copy with-symbol and move that stuff in the lisp file. Thanks for the hint. I'm off to the subway now 20:25:51 bye 20:27:11 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:30 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:27:44 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-39.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:27:51 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-14-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:40 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.23.60] has joined #lisp 20:36:43 -!- francogrex [n=user@240.140-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:52 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:43:33 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:30 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:41 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:52 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["leaving"] 20:50:01 athlon` [n=user@75-15-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:07 -!- egoz [n=Egoz@118.96.226.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:52:24 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-206.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:08 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.24] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 -!- cmeow_ [i=cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:53:57 cmeow [i=cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 20:54:00 LiamH: hi 20:54:04 knobo [n=user@ti0073a340-0951.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:55:21 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:59:06 -!- MrPat [n=pod@dhcp-pa-67-20-241-131.consolidated.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:58 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:21 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:21 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:04:29 Moe111 [n=Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727943.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:05:50 -!- kwinz3 [i=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:59 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:06:10 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:06:43 hello 21:07:37 -!- athlon` [n=user@75-15-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:53 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-137.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:52 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:09:19 heya, fe[nl]ix. 21:09:22 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.24] has quit [] 21:09:55 hi Fade 21:10:01 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:21 -!- schaueho_ [n=user@dslb-088-066-016-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:36 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@c-174-52-81-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:43 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:15:32 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:15:35 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 21:17:40 ephcon [n=ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:50 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:17:50 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 21:18:24 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 hi leo2007 21:19:33 do you use gsll for solving nonlinear equations? 21:23:13 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.35.126] has joined #lisp 21:23:25 -!- Moe111 [n=Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727943.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:10 It can be done, I'm not sure if I've done for my own equations or just the examples. 21:27:30 -!- TDT [n=dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:27:45 Vinnipeg [n=innocent@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has joined #lisp 21:28:16 -!- Vinnipeg [n=innocent@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has left #lisp 21:29:26 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:33 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:41 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:13 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:59 LiamH: i am using it so it can be done. but I got one question. 21:34:01 Vinnipeg [n=innocent@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has joined #lisp 21:34:05 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:21 is (subtypep val 'condition-type) legal, portable CL? 21:34:55 err 21:35:00 *typep 21:36:17 I guess so, conditions are defined to be subtypes of their parent conditions, so it should be portable 21:37:50 -!- lithper2_ [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:29 -!- splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-bzevqxzvizjygzzt] has quit [] 21:40:40 lithper2_ [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 21:40:44 LiamH: looks like the question is a bit difficult to explain on the irc, I'll send an email to the mailing list. 21:40:46 lacedaemon [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:40:52 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has left #lisp 21:41:03 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:41:06 i would like to keep a dictionary with about 220k entries in ram and lisp hash maps blow up in my face (heap exhausted) - what alternatives could i try? 21:41:27 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:30 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:42:10 add more ram? 21:42:28 modify lisp startup parameters to have more dynamic space? 21:42:50 guaqua, did the second up to the amoutn of ram i have 21:43:05 try a different implementation? 21:43:13 shrink the structures you save 21:43:14 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:43:20 compute the fat part on demand 21:43:20 hmm 21:43:23 you might be able to tune the hash parameters, too 21:43:35 Hun, that might be an idea 21:43:36 thx 21:43:58 what are entries? 21:44:16 lists of lists 21:44:32 "foo" - ((narf zod) (poit droz)) 21:44:34 kinda 21:45:05 thing is i am going to do a LOT of lookups in the "foo" column so it really needs to be in memory... 21:45:23 -!- Vinnipeg [n=innocent@PPPoE-78-29-78-119.san.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:45:33 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 21:45:33 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:45:35 or maybe i can split the keys intwo several batches or something... 21:45:53 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 21:47:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:02 morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f757c6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:41 leo2007: OK 21:52:01 HET2: if it all needs to be in memory, and you are out of memory, there really is only one solution. 21:52:48 drewc: buy more memory ? 21:52:53 i suspect it doesn't need to be all in memory... google is plenty fast and they search petabytes of data :) 21:52:58 fe[nl]ix: #T 21:52:59 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 21:53:21 i don't think they keep it _all_ in memory :) 21:53:51 Unhammer [n=user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 21:54:37 good evening, #lisp 21:54:38 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-219.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:55:11 How do I find the directory of "this" .lisp file? 21:55:53 ie. from a lisp file, I want to read another file in the same directory, no matter what *default-pathname-defaults* is 21:56:18 clhs *load-pathname* 21:56:21 *load-truename* 21:56:27 drewc, maybe -R us? 21:56:35 Unhammer, http://l1sp.org/cl/*load-pathname* 21:56:47 Adlai: are we getting flooded? 21:56:55 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 21:56:57 aaah, thank you Adlai, fe[nl]ix 21:57:22 -!- drewc has set mode -R 21:57:28 ramus_ [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-79.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 Unhammer, note that using *load-pathname* alone won't be sufficient if something like asdf-binary-locations is being used, which stores compiled files in locations separate from the .lisp source 21:57:38 drewc, not that I can tell 21:57:45 there we go..... i read +R us, then i looked and we were +R, so that's why i asked 21:58:01 ah 21:58:02 *drewc* was confused, but has figured it out 21:58:13 oh, hmm 21:58:28 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757c6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:58:28 Unhammer, there is also *compile-file-truename* and -pathname* 21:59:10 Unhammer: I much prefer using something like : (asdf:component-pathname (asdf:find-system :lisp-on-lines)) 21:59:11 nice! 21:59:49 (or #.*compile-file-truename* (load-time-value *load-truename*)) 22:01:26 Unhammer: you should be loading your system via ASDF anyway, so if your data happens to also live relative to your .asd (which it probably does if it lives near a .lisp), using ASDF:COMPONENT-PATHNAME is usually going to DTRT. 22:01:26 Unhammer, you can then do (merge-pathnames "src/foo.lisp" (asdf:component-pathname (asdf:find-system :bar))) 22:01:54 but that wouldn't be xcvb-ready 22:02:02 yeah, just tried that, seems to work 22:02:26 Unhammer, if you have some data files, you can include them in an asdf:defsystem using (:static-file "foo.conf") 22:02:31 and there's asdf:system-definition-pathname 22:02:49 stassats, what does that do? 22:03:05 what the name says 22:03:29 *Adlai* tries it at a repl 22:03:58 oh, so it's just a simple wrapper 22:04:02 stassats: i had no idea... i assume it's a simple wrapper around component-pathname 22:04:17 oh not quite -- it gives you the pathname of the .asd file itself 22:04:40 If any of you use CLSQL, we'd appreciate if you could take a minute to tell us how. http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDRXZ2ZPcnRTQU5WQWhOS0JsT01WdEE6MA 22:04:47 that could be useful... does it do so without doing find-system? 22:05:26 drewc, yep 22:05:34 cool 22:05:52 so if you have a system.asd that defines system-tests, and you haven't loaded that file yet, it'll error when you search for system-tests 22:06:40 yeah, it's just for finding the .asd .. that's a good thing, i've needed that before. 22:07:36 -!- fatblueduck [n=chris@71.104.235.97] has left #lisp 22:07:42 well, if you do (component-system-pathname 'system) and then (component-system-pathname 'system-tests), it'll find it the second time. 22:08:12 -!- Kenjin [n=josesant@242-169.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:08:37 kwinz3 [i=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 22:09:00 component-system-pathname? 22:09:13 err, system-definition-pathname 22:09:50 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:10:14 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:10:16 er, it _doesn't_ find it the second time. 22:12:14 ramus__ [n=ramus@adsl-99-136-192-99.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13:04 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:13:45 Kenjin [n=josesant@242-71.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 22:18:08 LiamH1 [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 22:18:42 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:19:51 bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:12 -!- ramus [n=ramus@99.23.141.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:57 -!- knobo [n=user@ti0073a340-0951.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:05 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-39.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:09 -!- ramus_ [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-79.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:26:14 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:26:42 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:18 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.69.37] has joined #lisp 22:31:03 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi"] 22:31:46 does LOOP have NEXT-ITERATION like ITER does? 22:31:47 ramus [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-155-36.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:55 no 22:32:06 then how am I supposed to jump to the next iteration? 22:32:08 or am I not? 22:32:09 bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:16 you are not 22:32:27 okay, TAGBODY it is then :) 22:33:12 i very rarely have a need in NEXT-ITERATION 22:33:38 -!- ramus__ [n=ramus@adsl-99-136-192-99.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:40 -!- felideon [n=user@12.228.15.162] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:33:47 re-write your loop to guard the part you want to skip with a conditional? 22:33:48 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-137.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:45 drewc: it's a loop I'd use for the single purpose of jumping back, so TAGBODY is really easier 22:35:18 you can have (loop ... do (block nil ...)) 22:35:52 you can also recurse :) 22:36:19 but first curse 22:36:24 then recurse 22:36:31 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:36:38 I really think TAGBODY is perfectly appropriate here 22:37:15 *stassats* hands mathrick a PROG 22:37:27 mathrick, you can also use the implicit tagbodies in do{*,list,times} 22:37:28 are there bindings, cause PROG much more fun 22:37:57 rickmode [n=rick@dhcp64-134-224-92.fpscc.den.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:07 (dotimes (n 5) .. (when (foop n) (go :continue)) .. :continue) 22:38:21 stassats: oh, that's even nicer, I never remember about PROG 22:38:41 party like it's 1969 22:39:40 WEIRD-AL operator? 22:39:58 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi"] 22:40:00 there is a quote about PROG in CLtL2 that i really enjoy: "Lisp implementations since Lisp 1.5 have had what was originally called ``the program feature,'' as if it were impossible to write programs without it!" 22:40:52 heh 22:40:53 drewc: steele made a few jokes about that at ilc that my neural circuits could only process as "the probe feature" 22:40:59 and it took me a day or two to get the jokes. 22:41:51 it's also impossible to bind variables without progv 22:41:58 ah yes, i pronounce it 'prawg'... i might have had the same problem 22:44:14 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:44:25 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:44:38 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:15 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-137.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:19 i remember seeing some lisp 1.5 code that Greenblatt had written that was held up as an example of how to write unstructured FORTRAN like code in lisp... i wish i could find the reference, apparently he was known for this particular stylistic quirk :) 22:46:20 it might have been in the c-l mailing list archives when they were arguing about including PROG 22:48:07 there is some pretty visually impressive LISP code at http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 22:49:16 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:49:17 wtxqcp [n=becpmcwt@60-241-117-131.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:49:23 -!- wtxqcp [n=becpmcwt@60-241-117-131.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [K-lined] 22:49:27 Adlai: yeah, that's LISt Processing for sure :) 22:49:38 -!- drewc has set mode +R 22:49:38 lists of cards :) 22:49:54 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:50:29 Adlai: heh, ain't that the truth :) 22:50:56 it's not possible to determine what conditions have handlers bound at any particular point in code/time, is it? 22:51:44 mathrick: I don't believe so. 22:52:03 *mathrick* makes a sad face 22:52:03 Am I the only one who wastes time switching between CAR/CDR and FIRST/REST? 22:52:05 oh well 22:52:17 gigamonkey: I usually only use CAR/CDR 22:52:24 gigamonkey: i caught myself doing that last night... 22:52:28 ditto 22:52:36 mathrick: why do you want to introspect handlers? 22:52:38 "no no no, that's a list, no a cons drewc" 22:52:48 Fade: ditto which, mathrick or drewc? 22:52:57 drewc 22:53:02 drewc: and what if it's a tree!? 22:53:10 gigamonkey: it's a tree of conses 22:53:14 yeah. 22:53:23 gigamonkey: marshalling conditions/restarts across threads :) 22:53:34 mathrick: yikes. 22:53:41 that's not strictly necessary, but could come handy in certain situations 22:53:46 mathrick: you want dynamic-wind 22:53:55 which we don't have 22:54:01 mathrick: see contextl .. of course we do 22:54:06 oh? 22:54:10 I love when I think, "Then I'll need to write a function to do X" and discover that I've already written it. 22:54:11 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229113239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:54:36 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:55:25 gigamonkey: i spent my time yesterday writing a bunch of support functions for a new feature... turns out i didn't need the feature once i had the support functions, so i never did write what i set out to write. 22:55:36 gigamonkey: I do that all the time. Except that 50% of the time I don't reach step 2 and write it again, then some time later I discover I have already and merge the two implementations 22:55:46 drewc: that I do too 22:55:54 like with TAGBODY above :) 22:56:07 drewc: so, care to throw me a link to DYNAMIC-WIND? 22:56:19 minion: tell mathrick about contexl 22:56:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``contexl''. 22:56:21 ContextL seems not to have an API reference link on its project page 22:56:22 gah 22:56:27 I need a protocol to enforce utility discipline in my editor. 22:56:32 minion: contextl? 22:56:33 contextl: ContextL is a CLOS extension for Context-oriented Programming. http://www.cliki.net/contextl 22:56:40 "WARNING:: you've written this before!" 22:56:59 ooh, 0.6 and it's even standalone 22:57:16 mathrick: there's a post on the mailing list that explains how to use it, and he implements ISLISP like dynamic variables and first class dynamic environments 22:57:20 there's a warning about duplicate definitions 22:57:57 stassats: not if everthing is identical save the names :) 22:58:00 drewc: do you hae a link to the post? 22:58:05 Fade: you need a fuzzy M-. that takes you to the nearest sexp by edit distance. ;-) 22:58:15 gigamonkey: aye :) 22:59:09 drewc: do you have a link? 22:59:19 M-x insert-function-pattern-at-point 'pattern 22:59:33 -!- hugod [n=hugod@207.96.182.162] has quit [] 22:59:33 just solve the halting problem 22:59:43 Fade: http://www.mail-archive.com/closer-devel@common-lisp.net/msg00253.html 22:59:49 thanks 23:00:09 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 Fade: the entire thread is here :http://www.mail-archive.com/closer-devel@common-lisp.net/msg00253.html 23:00:39 mathrick: ^ 23:00:46 drewc: now for the stupid question, why exactly do I want DYNAMIC-WIND? 23:01:24 mathrick: because it gives you first class dynamic environments... so you do something like this : 23:01:49 *mathrick* braces for an educational experience 23:01:50 bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:17 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 23:03:20 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:29 (let ((env (dynamic-wind (handler-bind (...) (proceed (capture-dynamic-environment)))))) 23:03:57 that give you ENV bound an environment in which your handlers are actie 23:04:04 active 23:04:36 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@c-98-234-48-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:04:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:04:43 I was a little sad at how slow my norvig-style spell checker worked on l1sp.org 23:04:46 so your handlers are effectively marshalled inside that environment. all that remains is to unmarshall them : 23:04:56 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:05:09 drewc: oooh, nifty, but is it safe to unmarshall in another thread? 23:05:13 there are 9 million edits of /cl/describe-objects and it took a few seconds. 23:05:44 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:05:51 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 23:05:53 (with-dynamic-environment (env) (functions-that-signal-stuff-like)) 23:06:00 mathrick: yeah, totally 23:06:15 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:06:21 drewc: awesomeness. That allows me to make it completely transparent 23:06:25 you're my hero sir 23:06:30 *drewc* bows 23:08:07 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-123-169.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 schaueho [n=user@82.113.106.0] has joined #lisp 23:09:04 -!- vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?"] 23:09:14 i think pcos gets the nod, there, but drewc is a great salesman. ;) 23:09:26 -!- schaueho [n=user@82.113.106.0] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:46 Fade: good hackers borrow, great hackers steal :) 23:09:53 *Fade* chuckles 23:10:01 ... and the best sell! 23:10:02 I think if IF* had been put into the language, and spelled IF, I'd be a fan. 23:10:15 someone has to spend the time reading academic papers and figuring out how to actually use those ideas in real life :P 23:10:18 what's IF*? 23:10:26 gigamonkey: say it ain't so! 23:10:37 -!- ephcon [n=ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:10:39 mathrick, I'm guessing it's (if ,condition ,then (progn ,@else)) 23:10:45 oconnore_ [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:53 gigamonkey: they called it (LOOP :REPEAT 1 :IF ....) :) 23:11:17 minion: if* 23:11:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``if*''. 23:11:25 minion: if-star? 23:11:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``if-star''. 23:11:29 minion, defclass* 23:11:30 defclass*: defclass*, alias defclass-star A small but flexible package to make the usage of defclass-like constructs easier (defcondition*, deflayer*, etc). http://www.cliki.net/defclass* 23:11:58 http://www.franz.com/~jkf/ifstar.txt 23:12:59 (if foo :then bar :elsif bazp :then bat :else fooz) 23:13:16 drewc: correction: it'll be transparent aside from the fact it's not all clear it means to handle conditions from another thread running concurrently, but as soon as I decide on sensible semantics, it'll be as transparent as possible 23:14:11 mathrick: It's the IF construct from Franz Lisp (a pre-Common Lisp Lisp dialect) which John Foderaro of Franz is a big fan of. 23:14:23 mathrick: i'm not sure what you mean about handling conditions from another thread. 23:14:30 gigamonkey: and how does it work? 23:14:31 It's basically an IF with some syntactic sugar. 23:14:33 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:38 is anyone using the osicat package on cliki? I am getting installation errors, and if you have any ideas on how to solve them, I would appreciate it! 23:14:54 minion: tell oconnore_ about clbuild 23:14:54 oconnore_: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 23:14:57 Foderaro somewhat controversially wrote a lisp coding standard that advocated using IF* instead of IF/WHEN/COND 23:15:26 soupdragon [n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 23:15:36 hi 23:15:48 soupdragon: hi 23:15:54 hey p_l :) 23:16:10 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:16:16 It basically lets you say (if then else ) 23:16:41 So equivalent to (cond ((condition) ) (t I am just hoping someone can give me a tip or code for this idea: there's a REPL based interpreter I have and I want to call it as a subprocess from SBCL and make a sort of REPL inside lisp to use it.. but how on earth is that possible? 23:16:55 do you think it makes for clearer programs than does cond? 23:17:24 drewc: basically I want to augment futures with the ability to use conditions to communicate with the computation, but there's a small wrinkle that the context in which the computation is started is not the same as the context in which the value is received, and anything can happen in between. So it can't be completely invisible, but I can make it pretty close to conditions signalled from the same thread 23:17:32 (gigamonkey) 23:18:02 (I know how to get the streams and stuff out of sb-ext:run-program, which is a start.) 23:18:05 soupdragon: please define REPL-based interpreter? 23:18:09 (loop repeat 1 if foo do else do ) ... so close. 23:18:24 gigamonkey: PCL is $58 on Amazon now. 23:18:50 gigamonkey: with THEN and ELSE being literal symbols there? 23:18:50 mathrick, well it's like it prints out > and you type in a command then it prints out the answer -- the reason it's tricky is because I don't think there's any way to check if it's finished out-putting and it's ready for a new command 23:19:08 soupdragon: (loop (print (inferior-lisp-eval (read (print "> "))))) 23:19:22 gigamonkey: I can see how that's better than IF, but not really as a replacement for WHEN or COND 23:19:35 p_l, error: "> " is not a stream designator... 23:19:41 p_l roughly like that I guess, but how to relate it to run program? 23:20:03 soupdragon: but you mean it's an external binary? 23:20:05 Adlai: I'm going now to hunt for food, no time to write correct code 23:20:09 or hmm, some way to implement inferior-lisp-eval given a run-program? 23:20:10 yes mathrick 23:20:11 if so, you're screwed, welcome to Unix 23:20:15 ah 23:20:16 soupdragon: inside inferior-lisp-eval 23:20:31 well that is a bit of a shame but at least it helps me understand why I was having so much trouble 23:20:34 soupdragon: also, how well you can know when evaluation is finished depends on your inferior lisp 23:20:48 afk - really time to hunt for food (and coffee) 23:20:57 I'm beginning really to hate Unix 23:20:59 by the way I can modify the REPL so it prints a period or something, maybe that's the way to do it 23:21:12 I think I should give that a go then 23:21:22 it's a huge shame that you can get away for so long with pretending flat strings are enough 23:21:36 mathrick: well, I like WHEN when it's what I want. But I'm never too happy about the way COND looks. 23:21:36 does the external program take input at stdin and write output to stdout? 23:21:37 soupdragon: make it a real library 23:21:38 yeah I know what you mean, it's pretty crazy 23:21:47 soupdragon: your prompt will have to be something that is never output back to your program to work properly... 23:21:52 gigamonkey: but you can't put more than one ELSE in IF*, can you now? 23:22:06 drewc, hehe that's a good point - I'll have to figure out some escape sequence.. oh well 23:22:33 gigamonkey: I'd be much happier with COND if SLIME indented branches' bodies by two and not one space 23:23:10 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-185-193.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:23:22 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:23:42 slime doesn't indent cond 23:24:05 well, yes, that amounts to the same :) 23:24:13 but it should 23:24:23 emacs does 23:24:39 but SLIME plays a big role in how exactly it does it 23:24:44 gonzojive_ [n=red@DNab4222a6.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:24:46 no 23:24:49 yes? 23:24:54 mathrick: I'm not sure. There may be an ELSEIF or ELIF or something in IF* 23:25:05 why else would it have the "Update indentation" command? 23:25:12 I thought SLIME handed off indentation back to the Lisp? 23:25:22 So it could get &body macros right. 23:25:39 gigamonkey: that's a horrible syntax to be honest, COND is much nicer for multibranch IFs 23:26:03 COND for algol refugees. 23:26:18 mathrick, most indentation is done by emacs, slime just does a bit of tweaking 23:26:23 gigamonkey: not really, it queries the lisp to know when you enter &body, but then indents itself 23:26:40 that's why you need to update the indentations sometimes 23:26:40 *hefner* thinks Fade must not write enough real code 23:26:49 because it caches things for performance reasons 23:27:22 Adlai: but SLIME is my Lisp environment, and I'm using it as a shorthand for the whole stack 23:27:25 completely possible 23:27:29 slime tells emacs about &body, emacs does the rest itself 23:28:10 Phoodus [i=foo@97-124-117-72.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:58 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-185-14.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:30:06 you can put (put 'cond 'common-lisp-indent-function '(&rest (&whole 2 &rest 2))) for yourself 23:30:12 Bah. I want OR to be MULTIPLE-VALUE-OR 23:30:20 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-188-101-018-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:31:04 hmm, is lisppaste allowed to speak in the channel now? 23:31:09 it's LAST-MULTIPLE-VALUE-OR 23:31:15 gigamonkey: (multiple-value-call #'some 'identity (values ....)) 23:31:22 nope, it isn't 23:31:31 -!- drewc has set mode -R 23:31:39 lisppaste: url? 23:31:39 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:31:41 drewc, clbuild still breaks the install 23:31:54 well, it doesn't necessarily break it 23:31:58 but something is not working 23:32:09 snorble_ [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 23:32:24 what exactly does clbuild do better than asdf-install? 23:32:37 oconnore_, security 23:32:41 mathrick annotated #94117 "So much nicer, take 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94117#1 23:32:43 oconnore_: you're probably right, it's hard to tell without knowing what something is and how it's not working :) 23:32:53 asdf-install puts the burden of security in the wrong places 23:32:54 -!- LiamH1 [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:33:12 oconnore_: asdf-install installs tarballs from cliki, clbuild installs development versions from source repos. 23:33:20 ah 23:33:40 oconnore_: lisp does not have much of a release culture yet, so clbuild is the better option 23:33:45 mathrick: i am seeing a single dot 23:33:45 (for now) 23:33:49 minion: lispy? 23:33:50 lispy: Lispy is an application for Common Lisp library management in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/lispy 23:34:00 *drewc* is looking hard at lispy 23:34:01 stassats: yeah, see the original paste 23:34:15 -!- snorble_ [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:16 thanks drew 23:34:23 drewc: is it at least sweating nervously a bit? 23:34:40 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@DNab4222a6.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:53 snorble_ [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 23:34:58 mathrick: i can smell the phear! 23:35:10 mathrick: so, you're satisfied with the snippet i pasted? 23:35:47 is there a way to have lisp startupt without clbuild lisp? 23:35:50 you can put (put 'cond 'common-lisp-indent-function '(&rest (&whole 2 &rest 2))) for yourself <-- this one? 23:35:55 lemme try 23:35:57 yes 23:36:54 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:36:55 stassats: it does nothing for me 23:37:13 then "you're doing it wrong" 23:37:26 oconnore_: you could setup the proper environment variables for sbcl and call it directly, or write a script... you could call it clstart :) 23:37:33 probably, how do I do it right? 23:37:46 just evaluate it? 23:37:50 so I did 23:37:51 ok, thanks 23:38:00 and reindent your code 23:38:05 -!- spearalot [n=spearalo@41.130.8.131] has left #lisp 23:38:18 tried to, it didn't do anything 23:38:27 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:38:33 in fact, no matter what values I put there, it doesn't seem to change anything 23:38:37 then you're on your own 23:38:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:39:25 -!- Unhammer [n=user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:39:41 what's the value of indent-line-function in that buffer? 23:40:14 mathrick pasted "Docstring of common-lisp-indent-function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94118 23:41:14 apperantly you're using slime-indentation contrib 23:41:16 mathrick annotated #94118 "indent-line-function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94118#1 23:41:31 stassats: I think I am, is that wrong? 23:41:44 i don't know, i don't use it 23:42:31 sorry to ask so many questions but is this right? (write-line "1+1" (sb-ext:process-input *interpreter*)) 23:42:46 AHA, I found it... 23:42:46 it doesn't seem to actually have any effect on the process (that I can tell) 23:43:06 a package was checking for *osicat-version*, which is no longer a valid variable name 23:43:10 :) 23:44:12 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.35.126] has left #lisp 23:48:49 (oh I had to clear output..) 23:49:56 -!- snorble [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:50 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:50 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:50:51 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:51:18 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:18 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:51:19 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:51:38 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:38 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:51:39 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:52:00 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:00 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:52:01 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:52:27 -!- lithper2_ [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 23:52:46 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:46 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:52:47 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:52:53 bew: fix your connection 23:53:26 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:26 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:53:27 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:54:39 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:39 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:54:40 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:55:02 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:02 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:03 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:56:01 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:01 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:02 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:56:05 snorble__ [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 23:57:26 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:26 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:27 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:57:35 bew: What's going on? 23:58:10 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:10 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:11 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:58:32 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:32 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:33 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:58:36 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-137.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:58:52 bew_ [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:52 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:53 -!- bew_ is now known as bew 23:59:20 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [] 23:59:22 -!- Xach has set mode -b %ushdf!*@* 23:59:26 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*n=bew@*.hari.cable.virginmedia.com 23:59:46 *Xach* will lift when stability comes back