00:00:29 -!- repeteke [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:01:28 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:05:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:57 -!- Dra`vi [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:07:14 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:55 -!- cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:12:08 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:55 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@93-82-11-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:13:03 -!- Blkt [n=user@host-78-13-246-134.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["Good night"] 00:16:43 buttons840 [n=buttons8@c-76-27-4-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:16 Dra`vi [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:07 -!- Dra`vi [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:19:52 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 00:21:01 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:25 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:10 -!- davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:53 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:29:26 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:30:24 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [] 00:33:49 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:35:50 -!- buttons840 [n=buttons8@c-76-27-4-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:36:35 -!- Mezner [n=Mezner@c-24-99-183-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:38:08 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:39:30 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CA4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 00:39:56 -!- Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-dab0e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:42:44 argh 00:43:06 either SBCL drops the first level from the backtrace when an error is signalled 00:43:10 or I'm missing something 00:45:03 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.82.56] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:46:48 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:56 Helllifter [n=Oranguta@201.170.185.142.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:15 can I take a thit here? 00:48:25 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:48:33 I have thruggled for yearth with lithp 00:48:49 and can't thtart to even figure out how to thtop lithpj g ng 00:49:01 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 00:49:11 Welcome to lithp! 00:49:12 Always with the telnor. 00:49:15 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 00:49:16 The thpeech impediment 00:49:18 Tired of Niggers and their monkeyshines? Can't join the KKK because you are not White? This is Billy Mayes here with an amazing new website! Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum Chimpout Forum welcomes anybody who hates niggers and isn't a nigger. Asian? No Problem! Jewish? We have Jewish mods! Mexican? Bienvenido amigo! No matter what race you are, join us if you hate niggers! 00:49:19 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*=Oranguta@*.170.185.142.dsl.dyn.telnor.net 00:49:26 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp 00:49:48 -!- Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:49:57 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.214.90] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:50:38 how hard could it be to program a minion with a spam filter? 00:50:52 No problemo 00:50:53 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:51:46 i mean, someone says 'lithp' here, that's a kickban... not to mention chimpout.... 00:52:40 it would quite easy to auto kick any reference to that site 00:52:40 Phew, I almost kickbanned you. 00:52:46 oh you noticed that 00:52:54 hehe 00:53:10 Xach: ok, it checks the oplist before kickbanning :P 00:53:11 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:16 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 00:54:33 I wonder if it is a real racist site or a phishing site of some sort targeting racists 00:55:32 I will have to live in ignorance of course, hehe 00:55:35 sort of weird to get both the weird lithp rag and the racist spam from the same bot. 00:57:14 I am in #blender all the time and never see it there 00:57:47 Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 00:58:44 Maybe we should move there 00:59:03 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 00:59:11 nah you wouldn't like it 00:59:28 all python and bad acne 01:08:57 -!- RaceCondition [n=erik@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [] 01:10:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:37 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:13:56 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:16:49 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-136.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:43 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:22:19 I'm on a bunch of freenode channels, and have onlys een that spam in here 01:22:41 kwertii [n=kwertii@ResNet-1-118.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 01:22:47 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:34 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:46 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:26:28 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:27:56 32-bit SBCL, any idea why the return value is smaller than the parameter? (type-of 3472939506375) -> (INTEGER 536870912) 01:28:01 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:29:59 32-bit clisp returns a 24-bit INTEGER range 01:30:12 just a curiousity about fixnums vs bignums 01:30:23 Phoodus: looks like a bug to me 01:30:30 -!- Edward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-4-197.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:41 oh, lower-limit :( 01:31:01 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:31:35 ah, (0 N) vs N 01:31:39 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:31:56 and yeah, those numbers are 2^N, not 2^n-1 01:32:00 ok, that makes sense 01:34:04 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:54 -!- mischievious [n=mischief@unaffiliated/mischief] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:40 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:48 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-47-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:38:03 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 01:38:43 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 01:41:01 Kruppe [n=user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:11 rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.10.170] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 Is there a portable way to get a list of the slots of a struct? 01:43:25 format, snip off the #S, take every odd-indexed member? :-P 01:43:30 ...read... 01:43:42 no. 01:43:45 MOP, but not portably. 01:43:53 I asked that before, to no avail 01:44:06 hm. 01:44:13 What's a good way to call system functions in cl (ie cat, ls etc.)? 01:44:29 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:29 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["good night"] 01:44:31 (DEFMACRO define-structure ..) is portable 01:44:31 Kruppe: those aren't functions 01:44:44 drewc: good call. 01:44:50 Ralith: right, sorry, programs 01:45:31 Kruppe: CL has no mechanism. Your implementation, or a portable library, will. 01:45:41 minion: trivial-run-program? 01:45:42 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``trivial-run-program''. 01:45:45 well 01:45:51 minion: trivial-shell 01:45:52 trivial-shell: Trivial shell is a simple platform independent interface to the underlying Operating System. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-shell 01:46:02 mischief [n=mischief@unaffiliated/mischief] has joined #lisp 01:46:04 Lisp does not acknowledge the world outside its environment ;) 01:46:45 Phoodus: it does, it just makes every effort to insulate itself. 01:46:59 dirty dirty environments that it lives in... 01:47:07 minion: thanks ill take a look 01:47:07 np 01:52:31 hehe 01:54:21 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-24-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:13 -!- Ober [i=ober@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:57:39 -!- rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.10.170] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:55 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:23 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:58:50 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:03:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-crltwahbshmibtdo] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:05:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:50 -!- rares1 [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:10:06 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:11:00 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.3.0"] 02:11:14 myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-126-193.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 02:11:43 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:32 -!- rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:14:21 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-91.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:14 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:16:50 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441045.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:17:26 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:29 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:26 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:41 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 02:25:43 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:06 -!- Kludgy [n=Kludgy@S01060012174cbcf9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 02:29:45 -!- retroj [n=retroj@pdpc/supporter/active/retroj] has left #lisp 02:33:48 Do you have a spare AM2 CPU you can send me? 02:35:43 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:54 brain. blown. 02:35:56 http://trittweiler.blogspot.com/2008/12/on-relationship-of-lambda-and-lambda.html 02:37:21 kwertii_ [n=kwertii@ResNet-1-118.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 02:37:26 -!- kwertii_ [n=kwertii@ResNet-1-118.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:53 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@ResNet-1-118.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:37:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@93-82-11-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:39:23 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:42 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:41:56 i hope there isn't more of this lurking around http://trittweiler.blogspot.com/2009/10/0affff.html 02:43:22 consistency? 02:44:27 arcana 02:44:44 it's only arcana until you know it. 02:45:50 sharp-quote zero? how do you even look that up in the spec? 02:46:03 clhs #0 02:46:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 02:46:07 like that ^^ 02:47:01 it's not a sharp-zero 02:47:10 clhs #A 02:47:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhl.htm 02:47:46 "Note also that digits do not appear in the preceding table. This is because the notations #0, #1, ..., #9 are reserved for another purpose which occupies the same syntactic space" 02:48:49 gruseom [n=daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 02:49:03 #0A... is even a specific example of #nA! 02:49:16 *Xach* thinks someone hasn't read his spec from cover-to-cover lately... 02:49:49 heh 02:51:14 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:53:21 Xach: I wonder why the nav section in the EN archive isn't "sticky" like it was in the tmp version 02:54:10 adeht: It was not straightforward to make it work with all browsers and to prevent it from covering content accidentally (like when searching for terms with the browser's find command) 02:54:34 adeht: for quick navigation, the keys work well in many browsers (not IE, though) 02:54:43 j/k, s, u, and r, that is 02:56:11 ah well.. used opera, but guess I'll switch to emacs-w3m 02:58:08 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.226] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:00:56 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:01:08 Xach: hmm, no rel for next/prev/...? 03:02:45 man... the read syntax is not all the weird... but the fact that an empty array can actually hold data... that's something i did not know and that blows my mind. 03:03:35 hrmn? 03:03:47 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.226] has joined #lisp 03:04:45 (let ((a (make-array nil :initial-element 41))) (incf (aref a))) 03:05:05 drewc: not empty, rank 0, not the same. 03:05:38 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 03:06:55 pkhuong: true. 03:08:58 adeht: what would the rel be? 03:09:40 Xach: e.g., rel=next for next, rel=previous for previous 03:10:01 adeht: I haven't heard of that. Where can I read more info? 03:10:10 http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/special/a.html 03:10:29 thanks, i'll look into it 03:11:01 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ercmyovgoijgaqpu] has joined #lisp 03:12:25 Xach: this lets emacs-w3m move on to the next message when I press the spacebar and there's no more text (I could add some relationship estimate rule, but it's nicer if I don't have to) 03:16:32 ....wat 03:16:51 On SBCL, is there any history of optimization breaking code? 03:17:56 Ralith: Can you be more specific? 03:18:36 with (declaim (optimize (speed 0))), something's going wrong with my texture load and/or rendering 03:18:45 working on finding out what 03:20:12 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:30:23 drewc: do you ever embed org-mode radio tables in your lisp files? 03:32:43 -!- konr` is now known as konr 03:33:05 What's the opposite of defvar? And if there is no such function, how is housekeeping done with regard to variable names? 03:33:34 most cl systems don't have huge numbers of special variables. 03:33:44 cl is generally lexically scoped. 03:33:59 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:21 aidalgol: the convention is to use "earmuffs" for names of special variables.. *foo* 03:35:09 hm, that's funny 03:35:13 -!- dabd [n=dabd@a85-139-104-188.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:15 it seems to be a runtime effect 03:35:40 i.e. if the most recently compiled declaim includes (optimize (speed 0)), the error manifests 03:35:40 earmuffs, thats cute :D 03:35:41 Fade: that i have not done. 03:35:45 I'm curious how large programs/systems that require minimal downtime could be cleaned up or altered while still running. 03:36:15 (In Lisp, fo course.) 03:36:19 *of 03:36:29 aidalgol: what do you mean by 'cleaned up'? 03:37:05 aidalgol: there is no way to un-declare a special .. once it's done it's done. So, if you want a clean system, avoid using special variables. 03:37:10 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ercmyovgoijgaqpu] has left #lisp 03:37:14 I suppose I should ask if Lisp programs can be upgraded while running. 03:37:16 aidalgol: if you don't want *foo* any more, unintern it. 03:37:18 aidalgol: by developing processes and protocols for changeability 03:37:44 OK 03:38:19 aidalgol: of course lisp programs can be upgraded while running ... what do you think a REPL is? 03:38:42 Read-Eval-Print-Loop 03:38:49 srp [n=srp@115.118.212.168] has joined #lisp 03:39:00 it's also a method up upgrading a lisp program as it's running 03:39:03 method of* 03:39:15 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-neraqhsabmwdzywq] has joined #lisp 03:39:18 But can you remove functions? 03:39:24 fmakunbound 03:39:31 Ah. 03:40:03 adeht: Do you have a URL to more information on that function? 03:40:06 maybe there's a way to unspecial without uninterning in your implementation (I don't know of one) 03:40:18 clhs fmakunbound 03:40:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fmakun.htm 03:40:33 Thanks! 03:41:11 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-91.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:42:15 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:44:08 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:16 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:44:46 I think you can say (declaim (ccl::notspecial *foo*)) in ccl. 03:44:58 Not something you'd do every day, I would suppose. 03:47:35 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 03:47:43 Shamiq [n=Adium@adsl-68-78-133-219.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:45 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@adsl-68-78-133-219.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 03:48:41 tyr42 [n=tyr_god_@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:47 -!- anair_84 [n=anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:48:52 -!- srp [n=srp@115.118.212.168] has quit [] 03:49:02 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:49:37 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 03:49:47 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:51:19 Is there a simple way of converting a letter to a number between 0-25? 03:51:56 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:59 (case letter (#\a 0) (#\b 1) ...) 03:52:11 (position letter *alphabet*) 03:52:22 or, if you're on a lisp that uses a sane encoding, subtract a bit from the char-code 03:52:33 clhs char-code 03:52:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_char_c.htm 03:53:00 ok 03:54:30 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:54:46 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.3.0"] 03:55:12 Could char-code end up using something other than ascii if the input is just a-z 03:55:13 ? 03:55:22 yes 03:55:59 is there a common lisp which does so? Not to my knowledge. 03:56:15 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:16 drewc: in 2051, Common Lisp 2.0 03:56:46 adeht: you mean CLtL3 circa 2011 ;) 03:58:53 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 03:59:45 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:01:06 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:01:44 -!- Kenjin [n=josesant@a85-139-168-81.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:27 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:05:17 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.65.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:25 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:14:45 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:17:07 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.226] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:17:38 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:19:41 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:06 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-139-100-96.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:13 hey, I'm trying the (position letter *alphabet*) thing, but it doesn't seem to be working. I think it has to do with how picky = is being. 04:24:53 (position letter '("a" "b" "c" "d" "e" "f" "g" "h" "i" "j" "k" "l" "m" "n" "o" "p" "q" "r" "s" "t" "u" "v" "w" "x" "y" "z" #\space #\- #\.))) 04:24:53 And it works for #\Space, but not " ". 04:25:17 the character a is #\a 04:25:22 #\Space is a character, " " is a string 04:25:30 k 04:26:01 I'm glad that newer languages seem to be getting rid of characters. 04:26:15 so you should be either all chars or all length-1 stirngs in your alphabet list 04:26:34 right now you have them mixed 04:27:41 _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:58 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-214-212.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:06 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 04:28:07 btw, for just a-z, (- (char-code (char-downcase c)) (char-code #\a)) should return 0-25 04:29:06 I need ' ', '-', and '.' to be next anyway, so this work fairly well 04:29:14 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-209-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:18 right, the literal alphabet should work 04:29:35 I'd make it of characters '(#\a #\b #\c ... #\x #\y #\z #\Space #\- #\.) 04:29:45 you can easily generate the first 26 entries, too ;) 04:29:53 can you point me to the simplest http library that implements POST with multipart/post-data? 04:31:11 I dunno about simplest, but drakma is popular. 04:31:21 I assume it has that feature. 04:31:56 If I get fed in a string and want to convert it character by character with this (using #\a ...), I would use what? 04:32:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:13 map 04:32:27 strings are sequences, so anything in the Sequences section of the CLHS will work on them 04:32:50 konr, drakma is the simplest because it's well-documented at http://weitz.de/drakma 04:33:00 char would work right? 04:33:01 tyr42: *alphabet* could be something like "abcdefghijkl ..." 04:33:15 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_char_.htm 04:33:16 tyr42: map will iterate over the string, giving you 1 char at a time, and accumulating the return values 04:33:30 if you just want to listify a string 04:33:34 (coerce string 'list) 04:33:35 :P 04:35:12 thanks, Ralith and Adlai 04:36:43 -!- fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:41:25 mjsor [n=mjsor@75-93-57-35.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:56 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-neraqhsabmwdzywq] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:42:02 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:42:07 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-drkbcqwgjrlrehbn] has joined #lisp 04:43:39 fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:43:47 c|mell [i=john@dajoji.just.any.name] has joined #lisp 04:45:12 -!- lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-234-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:46:54 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:49:32 -!- mjsor [n=mjsor@75-93-57-35.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [] 04:50:50 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441045.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:50:53 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 04:51:48 -!- exu0 [n=u@188.105.137.18] has left #lisp 04:54:03 Good morning! 04:54:53 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:26 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:06:48 -!- tyr42 [n=tyr_god_@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 05:12:28 -!- konr [n=user@189.96.105.86] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:37 konr` [n=user@189.96.105.86] has joined #lisp 05:12:53 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@93-82-11-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:14:50 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:18:30 cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:03 is there a lisp that somnething can be alien-p and consp both? 05:20:49 consp and some other weirdnessp both at least 05:21:00 felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:47 i would like to rerpesnet some inferior lisp's things in a outer lisp w/o marshaling basically 05:23:14 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@166.205.138.198] has joined #lisp 05:23:36 cons cells need to be in a memory area that the gc manages somehow. It's hard to see how foreign memory would qualify. 05:24:41 yeah is i going to need a wrapper tpyes like ALIEN 05:25:15 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@166.205.138.198] has quit [Client Quit] 05:25:18 even though it pains me to pass a cons back and fouth as ALIENs 05:26:11 it seems like these two lisps are going to play with each otehrs proxy objects 05:26:36 but the part i am confused about.. is how much can these proxy objects act just like the real things when used 05:27:12 like is someone (write-to-string something-got-=passed-to-me*) 05:28:59 If you're using two lisp processes, you have to serialize and deserialize objects somehow, right? 05:29:12 they are linked in C actually 05:29:36 two differnt versions of lisps 05:29:43 i can change one but not the otehr 05:30:21 so i litterally have a L1 lisp1_to_lisp2(L2) 05:30:27 oops 05:30:28 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:40 L2 lisp1_to_lisp2(L1) and visa versa 05:30:49 L1 and L2 are totally incompable 05:31:11 they both have a lifetime on their respective allocators 05:31:47 the code to switch between them is often a copy 05:32:16 but when it comes to conses or arrays .. thats the hairy part 05:32:26 why do you have two lisps? 05:32:52 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 05:33:10 oops i started out by lying actually trying to simlify my problem for sake of convertion 05:33:24 conversation 05:34:05 i actually have a SWI-Prolog and another C lisp 05:34:29 i can make SWI prolog do leaps and bounds as to whatever i need 05:35:15 but i hoping i can supply the Lisp with somehting that makes sense enough to it.. that i can reduce the amount of serialization.. not that seriazation is bad.. but at times it might be even incorrect 05:35:57 like in SWI-prolog somene give me a cons.. i can handle that.. but if they setcar it later.. they copy is outofdate 05:36:33 so my interest in reduction of marshalling has more to do with soundness 05:36:43 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:51 That's mutable structure for you. 05:37:15 (the problem is identical to two lisps) 05:37:39 yeah 05:37:47 both actualyl can setcar behind the others back to 05:38:09 It's a matter of consensus. 05:38:38 I'm partial to the CAS approach -- build a model of dependencies and an effect, check the model and apply the effect or fail. 05:38:38 i am hoping somehow i can make the outerlisp to using all alien objects 05:38:46 (fail and update the model) 05:39:00 i am hoping somehow i can make the outerlisp use all alien objects* 05:39:46 so i start out with a full copy model.. and find places that the copy broke my usecases? 05:40:37 newb question: what's a well supported and tested persistence library? Elephant? 05:40:52 Zhivago: (my interpreation of the CAS) 05:42:05 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 05:43:10 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:43:29 dmiles: Pretty much. For a cons, you'd say "I think it is a (cons 1 2) and if so make it a (cons 1 3)" 05:44:03 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:39 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:45:28 i been coding the full copy model.. so far it might even be enough.. but having someting like a prolog variable would be nice 05:46:03 Well, that doesn't sound hard -- can't the ffi do it? 05:47:08 my Q .. i havent studied ALIEN well enough to know 05:47:33 If you can do it from C using pointers then you're probably ok. 05:48:38 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:49:59 benny [n=benny@i577A199B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:50:12 ok i think you gave me an idea.. i am statically linking them together from C source so i can do about anything.. so when a prolog variable is unbound # 05:51:46 i wish this lisp was void** and not void* 05:53:35 well actually a tagged fixnum is really a value.. no pointer 05:53:57 my point is a a cons is a constag+pointerval 05:54:20 oops i dont have that much of a point 05:54:39 -!- cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["sleep"] 05:54:53 an array is a arraytag+pointerval 05:55:39 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:56:07 actually becasue each type has their own range of pointervals .. depending on what allocator made the type.. string/array/cons/whatnot .. the rest of the lisp can know its type 05:56:22 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-17-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:57:42 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:55 Bobrobyn_ [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:12 Kludgy [n=therealk@S01060018f85956c8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:33 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:00:36 if i allcate an alien object it assumes i get one poineter indiection at least 06:00:52 indirrection 06:10:03 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A199B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:13:09 -!- Kruppe [n=user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:55 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:20 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:23:02 -!- c|mell [i=john@dajoji.just.any.name] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:28:27 RaceCondition [n=erik@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 06:30:31 bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:51 -!- Harag [n=Harag@wbs-41-208-199-84.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 06:35:11 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 06:35:47 -!- felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:35:47 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:36:17 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 06:38:29 ugh... it's been so long since I've committed to the SBCL repo. have we moved over to git yet or do I still have to use sf.net's cvs? 06:45:46 -!- Bobrobyn_ [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:46:31 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f6626db-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:25 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 06:50:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:52:17 vaasu [n=user@123.176.20.39] has joined #lisp 06:52:39 hi, can anyone translate page 6, fandcons function in lisp, of http://www.md.chalmers.se/~rjmh/Papers/whyfp.pdf 06:58:20 is there any way to flet a recursive function? 06:59:18 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:00:26 clhs labels 07:00:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 07:08:26 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:11:33 -!- skeptical_p [n=rrr@109.67.7.24] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:08 Harag [n=Harag@wbs-41-208-199-84.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:17:38 benny [n=benny@i577A199B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:58 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:01 I have duplicate Slime menu items under the Slime main menu in emacs23...same goes for LISP and REPL? 07:19:53 is this slime or emacs problem or both? 07:20:39 lithper2 [n=turing@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:46 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:24:10 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:24:13 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 07:26:27 somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 07:27:07 -!- lithper2 [n=turing@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:27:16 -!- pok [n=pok@80.91.231.253] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:22 -!- frodef [n=frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:29:32 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:29:50 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 07:33:04 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:36:28 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:10 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 07:38:55 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:43:24 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:45:14 pok [n=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 07:48:41 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 07:50:23 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:39 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:21 -!- vaasu [n=user@123.176.20.39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:56 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:05 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:56:41 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:56:43 good morning 07:56:47 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:02:54 -!- NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-181-47.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:41 alex_74 [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:54 -!- alex_74 [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:07:01 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:03 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-54-82-251-115-240.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:18 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.102] has joined #lisp 08:08:35 why does the SLIME REPL not put the cursor at the beginning of the prompt when pressing M-a? it instead puts it at the beginning of the previous prompt's prompt tekst which is useless... 08:09:16 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:24 wfm 08:09:40 sounds like C-M-a 08:10:07 oh, you said M-a, you need C-a surely 08:10:55 stassats`: C-a moves the cursor to the beginning of the line, but C-M-a actually does what I need 08:11:17 I just wonder why M-a couldn't do that instead -- is there any value in moving to BEFORE the previous prompt? 08:11:39 why should M-a do what you want? 08:11:47 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:11:50 CL-USER> ... 08:11:50 CL-USER> piajsdoiasdj 08:12:04 I just wonder what should anyone use M-a for :) 08:12:46 read documentation and find out 08:13:36 SLIME documentation or what? 08:13:48 Emacs documentation 08:14:21 M-a is an emacs keybinding 08:15:36 emacs is self documenting, you should've learned how to use this 08:17:20 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-8.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:17:31 -!- Harag [n=Harag@wbs-41-208-199-84.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17:32 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:52 -!- Kludgy [n=therealk@S01060018f85956c8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 08:20:53 stassats`: you mean M-h k M-a? 08:21:05 I did use that, but it doesn't tell me WHY are things done the way they are 08:21:27 I'm not sure what mark-paragraph has to do with anything 08:22:00 M-a is backward-sentence 08:22:51 RaceCondition: i meant C-h k 08:23:04 stassats`: oops, me too 08:23:48 anyway, it's bound to backward-sentence which I was afare of before, it's just that in the *slime-repl sbcl* buffer it seems to be pretty useless... no? 08:24:20 so don't use, what's the problem? 08:24:30 um, nvm 08:24:35 Bobrobyn_ [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:52 I bound my M-a to something which goes to the beginning of a sexp (or string), and if pressed again moves out to the beginning of the upper sexp 08:26:18 C-M-u? 08:26:34 tcr: I guess that's what I expected as well :) so if I bind M-a to what C-M-a does by default, will I get that behaviour? 08:26:52 It's basically C-M-u C-M-d; I find C-M-u pretty useless because I seem to want to get to the CAR of a form most often 08:28:22 C-M-u seems to do the same thing as C-M-a, at least when pressed once 08:28:24 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:31:48 RaceCondition: C-M-u would be different in a more nested s-exp 08:32:24 stassats`: yup, I just realized that 08:34:24 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.141.32] has joined #lisp 08:37:37 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-drkbcqwgjrlrehbn] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:38:46 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@e195-041.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:40:03 -!- bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:40:59 peterwan` [n=user@122.227.189.156] has joined #lisp 08:41:56 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:42:03 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.141.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:47:36 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:47:48 what was the command to find out which keybindings start with a given prefix? 08:48:52 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:48:58 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:49:16 prefix C-h 08:49:58 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:50:07 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:08 -!- peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:38 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit ["HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!"] 08:51:59 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:53:00 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@121.242.102.208] has joined #lisp 08:53:43 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 08:56:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:09 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:56:24 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:51 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f754dfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:10 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:01:48 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:03:15 stassats`: thanks 09:03:38 damn, it's of no help when the keybinding is just one step :P 09:05:38 Good morning! 09:06:13 hello spiaggia 09:08:25 somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 09:13:03 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-139-100-96.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:13:04 -!- peterwan` [n=user@122.227.189.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:15:29 -!- knobo [n=user@ti0073a340-0462.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:25 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 09:18:05 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:41 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 09:18:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:18:59 morning all 09:20:38 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:20:38 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:20:38 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21:05 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229233207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:11 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:19 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@121.242.102.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:21:38 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qxcdtlgerdaheoab] has joined #lisp 09:23:43 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:48 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 09:25:12 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:25:47 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 09:29:28 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:51 s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has joined #lisp 09:31:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:32:19 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:32:49 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-8.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:35:09 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:41:18 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:41:58 just wondering: why are MINUSP and PLUSP not called NEGP and POSP? 09:42:08 some historical thing? 09:42:26 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229233207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["haha"] 09:43:08 what's the reason to call them NEGP and POSP? 09:43:15 i don't find that an improvement 09:43:32 negativep, only if 09:45:19 Anyone experienced with futexes? I do not understand the description of the FUTEX_WAIT operation "This operation atomically verifies that the futex address uaddr still contains the value val"; I do see the relation between the futex address, the `val' in FUTEX_WAIT case, and the FUTEX_WAKE operation (which, too, takes a `var' but for whole different purpose.) 09:45:38 erm I mean I do _not_ see the relation 09:50:55 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:52:54 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:34 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-90-45.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:53:50 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 09:53:52 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 09:59:12 Terminus [n=justin@124.107.174.131] has joined #lisp 09:59:12 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:29 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:00:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 10:01:23 rares [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:47 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 10:02:57 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:03:07 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:03:28 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:33 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:11:04 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:21:44 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:22:54 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:10 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:25:59 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:26:45 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-59-45.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:29:12 lispm [n=joswig@g224047086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:40 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:30:50 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:39:15 prxq [n=mommer@f051015080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:40:11 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qxcdtlgerdaheoab] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:40:31 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cpusycyirzhiuvuv] has joined #lisp 10:41:32 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-19-55.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:43:45 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:44:23 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@e195-041.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:45:20 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:10 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 10:59:52 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:08 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224047086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:02:26 lispm [n=joswig@g224047086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:23 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 11:08:46 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:09:14 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 11:10:22 -!- addled [n=alawson@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:13:23 addled [n=kvirc@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:18 pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has joined #lisp 11:18:44 kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 11:19:21 CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.45.170] has joined #lisp 11:25:11 -!- addled [n=kvirc@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:45 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [".."] 11:26:57 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:28:06 -!- Intensity [i=[IWxENo1@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:43 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:30:24 so, there really isn't a single framework that does CRUD decently there, isn't it? 11:31:15 Edward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-205.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:31:16 i don't even care for an admin panel, just some restful URIs 11:31:50 say, /class/edit/3, etc. where class is CLOS class that maps to a table and 3 is an object ID 11:32:39 what is CRUD? 11:32:50 doesn't sound very inspiring :-) 11:33:30 create, read, update and delete 11:33:53 i.e. a database backed something; usually not very inspiring 11:34:23 CRUD mod RBAC, usually 11:35:07 databased backed webapp? 11:35:13 yes 11:35:25 wasn't there LOL, etc? 11:36:04 LOL is esoteric, with all due respect to drew 11:37:49 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:32 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.1] has joined #lisp 11:43:35 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:44:55 common-lisp.net , gone? 11:46:46 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:47:32 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:19 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-111-74.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:50:50 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cpusycyirzhiuvuv] has left #lisp 11:51:14 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:52:25 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:53:38 Time to call drewc? 11:54:13 fe[nl]ix: re the commit. Is this something every user needs to install into his own .git? That sounds like something that is likely to go wrong. How about filters as suggested by rpg? 11:54:58 i'm on it 11:55:37 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 Or how about an :AFTER method in ASDF that checks for tabs and complains loudly? Kind of like SBCL does it, except directly in ASDF for those who aren't going through hemlock/build.sh. 12:00:37 ok, that seems to have got it 12:02:59 cool, can you fix twitter too? 12:03:00 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:02 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.45.170] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:04:16 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:49 heh, not my problem. 12:05:16 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 lichtblau: filters will go wrong more often. how many committers will there be, anyway ? 12:08:53 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 12:10:57 fe[nl]ix: I'm mostly worried that I'll forget about the hook myself ;-) 12:11:58 But I guess you're right, this is good enough for a <= 2 persons project. 12:12:00 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:12:30 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 12:12:51 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 12:13:18 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:39 Blkt [n=def@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:13:43 I wonder about nikodemus. He hasn't been here for quite some time now. 12:14:27 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.1] has joined #lisp 12:18:11 borism [n=boris@213-35-233-107-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 12:19:41 lichtblau: you can forward my message to him 12:21:41 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:53 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:24:29 dabd [n=dabd@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:24:41 trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:37 Madsy^ [n=madman@ti0207a340-1181.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:27:36 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:27:43 _8david [n=user@port-92-195-245-78.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:27:45 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:05 pjb`` [n=t@64.Red-79-149-158.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- 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[lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jnrafnblykvqbtmy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:38 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:28:39 skeptomai|away [n=nnnnncb@71.227.156.96] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:21 (every #'true list) I forgetting that positive truth idiom for ANDing a list .. for lack of better term 12:29:30 pemryan [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 12:29:38 (not (every #'null list)) is the negative 12:30:14 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 *fusss* apologizes for that penultimate "sentence" 12:30:23 rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:35 -!- rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 12:30:38 rlonstei1 [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:42 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 Blkt [n=def@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-111-74.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 Terminus 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PuffTheMagic_ [n=quassel@whiterabbit.rz.uni-mannheim.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:50 -!- PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:30:50 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:30:51 -!- rlonstein [i=lonstein@207.200.6.75] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:51 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:30:51 -!- Terminus [n=justin@124.107.174.131] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:30:51 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:30:51 -!- tic [n=tic@83.249.194.61] has quit [Success] 12:30:51 -!- guaqua [i=gua@217.30.184.184] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:52 -!- Borbus_ [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:52 -!- pjb` [n=t@64.Red-79-149-158.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:52 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:54 fusss: identity. 12:31:01 (every #'identity list) 12:31:03 tic [n=tic@83.249.194.61] has joined #lisp 12:31:08 _yes_ 12:31:10 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:31:11 (defun true (x) (not (null x))) :-( 12:31:12 guaqua [i=gua@217.30.184.184] has joined #lisp 12:31:12 Terminus [n=justin@124.107.174.131] has joined #lisp 12:31:26 j0be [n=j0be@192.87.167.151] has joined #lisp 12:31:30 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 12:31:33 fusss: Your function is wrong. 12:31:49 fusss: (not (null x)) is not true, it's not-nil-p 12:31:54 (defun true (x) x) 12:32:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:32:10 fusss: cf the glossary entry "Generalized boolean" 12:32:21 Reaver [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:32:30 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:42 hmmm 12:33:08 Q: is there an 'average' function in cl? (I use allegrocl) 12:33:12 i must be hacking against my own type system; luckily, i have been compatible with CL's so far 12:33:28 j0be: define average 12:33:53 (1+2+3)/3 12:33:56 even in 6th grade they taught us there were 3 of them; mean, median and mode. the last two were the nice ones, but the first one was mean. 12:34:02 as the average of (1 2 3) 12:34:07 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 12:34:41 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.215.171] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:35:13 j0be: not that I know of, but trivial to write 12:35:23 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:35:25 with &rest arguments, APPLY/FUNCALL, and length 12:35:45 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:45 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [n=quassel@whiterabbit.rz.uni-mannheim.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:45 -!- lichtblau 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has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-209-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:35:55 -!- cpt_nemo [i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:37:12 fusss: no it won't work because of the limitations on the number of arguments. 12:37:46 j0be: (defun average (sequence) (/ (reduce (function +) sequence :initial-value 0) (length sequence))) 12:38:55 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 12:39:11 Adlai [n=adlai@93-172-65-123.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined 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[n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 Legoolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has joined #lisp 12:46:21 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:46:21 -!- aidalgol is now known as Guest23567 12:46:21 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:22 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:46:22 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:22 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:22 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:46:23 -!- Madsy [n=madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:46:23 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:24 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:46:24 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:26 derrida: SDL is ok i think. I myself use OpenGL directly, but i'm not doing any reasonable amount of it 12:46:26 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-245-78.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Success] 12:46:27 i've heard some things about cairo being nice too 12:46:28 i'm just testing the water i guess :> 12:46:28 Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 12:49:29 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:29 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:29 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:29 -!- happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:29 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:29 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.156] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:49:30 -!- blue112 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[n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:35 erg [n=erg@69.93.127.154] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:59:46 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:47 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@adsl-71-142-227-255.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:54 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 13:00:11 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:00:17 kiuma_ [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:00:17 what are the keywords i have to look up, if i need informations how to catch errors? i have a function which may or may not succeed in calculating a formula, i would like to do sth like (errorcatch (try-to-calculate) (return-this-if-error-occurs)). i looked up some books i have - i am irritated by {conditions, cerror, catch, throw} as they /seem/ to sound right, but not the right tool. can you give me a hint/url/example? 13:00:36 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 clhs handler-case 13:00:43 -!- kiuma_ [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:49 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:00:51 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:00:53 stassats: thanks, reading. 13:00:58 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 13:00:59 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:01:10 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:19 (handler-case (/ 0) (error (condition) (princ condition) nil)) 13:01:31 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 13:01:34 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:01:41 clhs ignore-errors 13:01:44 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:56 ignore-errors is too rough 13:02:09 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:02:13 it's better to use handler-case on a narrow set of conditions 13:02:19 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 jdz: hm, am i on the right track here? http://sprunge.us/LSIR 13:02:29 it's painful to debug code with ignore-errors 13:02:40 derrida: nope. you're not writing lisp at all. 13:02:45 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:02:55 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:00 *derrida* sobs 13:03:11 derrida: you cannot stuff parens around like semicolons in some other languages. 13:03:13 -!- kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:03:19 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:03:29 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 thanks jdz for this hint, too. 13:03:45 kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 13:03:54 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:03:55 djinni` [n=djinni`@adsl-71-142-227-255.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:04 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:28 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:04:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:04:30 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:04:38 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:05:11 trebor_dki: but yes, ignore-errors is in 99.9% cases the wrong tool 13:05:12 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:29 trebor_dki: you should never handle an error you don't know how to handle. 13:05:31 -!- kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:05:33 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:05:41 almost never that is. 13:05:43 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:03 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:06:13 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:16 kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 13:06:33 -!- alexsuraci 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#lisp 13:11:24 trebor_d`, Read the relevant chapter in PCL 13:11:34 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:11:38 PuffTheMagic_ [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:11:39 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:39 it's more accessible than the clhs pages 13:11:47 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@whiterabbit.rz.uni-mannheim.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:11:47 -!- Holcxjo 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[Connection reset by peer] 13:18:18 -!- Guest235_ [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Success] 13:18:44 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 13:19:05 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-13.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:38 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.37] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 stassats, it would be nice if you could kill several threads in the thread list buffer; probably making `k' operate on the regio 13:21:12 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 13:21:29 you usually kill too much threads? 13:21:29 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.49.32] has joined #lisp 13:22:28 -!- Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:22:47 the usual marking would be nicer, but making it work on region is simpler 13:23:24 well, I create lots of threads in my test cases 13:23:41 and it seems like I hit a bug finally :-) 13:23:45 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:24:33 ok, i'll learn how to tie shoelaces properly and then will look at k 13:26:04 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:14 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.141.32] has quit [Success] 13:26:53 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:27:31 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:27:33 stassats, cool thanks! 13:28:36 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-111-74.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:29:28 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:28 -!- morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f754dfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:28 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:28 -!- DrForr 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[n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 Legoolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has joined #lisp 13:43:15 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 13:43:16 DWIM, zero-configuration crap influenced by Ruby on Rail's "convention over configuration" is hurting the web 13:43:16 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95.24.85.167] has joined #lisp 13:43:17 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:43:17 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:17 they work by making you write your "markup" in a certain "convention" .. 13:43:17 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:43:18 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:28 -!- guaqua [i=gua@217.30.184.184] has quit [Success] 13:44:33 here is a piece of hand waving crap; jQuery UI's accordion widget expects sections of your text to be spread into url-header, and div pairs. works great, as long as your content div doesn't have a URL anywhere. that's right, NO URLs allowed in your markup (see ma, no configuration) 13:46:07 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-214-212.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:10 -!- nurv101` [n=nurv101@fw.l2f.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:42 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:13 and yes, it hijacks all URLs there in 13:50:27 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:50:42 Is this like your query-dao confusion where if you read the docs none of this would be a surprise? 13:50:49 Or is this a real problem? 13:50:56 gabnet [n=gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@fw.l2f.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:27 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:04 bah spurious wakeups in condition-wait suck 13:56:14 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:57:04 TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has joined #lisp 13:57:57 trittweiler: yes 13:58:01 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:58:24 Xach: be my guest. try to find this documented anywhere http://jqueryui.com/demos/accordion/ 13:59:09 *Xach* files under "real problem" 13:59:48 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00:13 "You should note that any URLs supplied for accordion headers will not be followed when the header is clicked within the accordion when using the default implementation." -- http://www.packtpub.com/article/jquery-ui-accordion-widget-part1 14:00:34 took a third party to put point it out, in the Nth paragraph 14:01:01 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:03 and that one is actually for the header. the bodies are hijacked silently 14:04:18 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:06:04 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:59 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:07:49 I wonder whether condition-wait-while would be a good addition; I'm not sure I like abstracting stuff out into macros for this kind of stuff where you have to be conscious of every implementation detail 14:10:11 Blkt [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:11:08 Hmm, what would you guys here recommend for some simple work involving xml? I've been comparing S-XML and XMLS so far. 14:11:33 i only used cxml 14:11:43 trittweiler: i've committed k-on-region 14:11:46 pkhuong, are you here? 14:11:57 stassats, thanks I'll try it 14:12:09 bloody cvs seems to be especially slow today, and emacs hangs while committing 14:13:33 Maybe what I'm looking for is actually some form of matching patterns in the tree data hmm 14:14:10 stassats, try to ssh into c-l.net and look if there's some spinning process 14:14:20 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:58 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:15:32 seems ok, perhaps network connection is slow 14:15:49 i read in the backlog that cl.net had some troubles today 14:16:06 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 14:16:19 Xantoz: I have an ad-hoc system for doing that in ZS3. It's not very general (it only works on simple amazon data, which doesn't use e.g. namespaces), but maybe it will provide you with ideas. 14:16:51 jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-41-208-202-64.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:52 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:02 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:07 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:30 dabd` [n=user@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:25:37 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit ["system updates"] 14:26:30 -!- dabd [n=dabd@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:02 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.156] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:28:15 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:30 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:29:39 Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:44 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:33:01 _Fury [n=Fury@p57904782.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:06 <_Fury> hi 14:33:39 <_Fury> Is there a build in function for choosing a random element out of a list? 14:33:56 Xach: Hmm, I'll check it out. Thanks btw. 14:34:07 _Fury: there's no 14:34:08 No, but there is a simple algorithm to do so. 14:34:14 _Fury: there are a log of built in functions. You only have to find its _name_! 14:34:43 _Fury: for example, (lambda (seq) (elt seq (random (length seq)))) is the name of such a function. (it works on sequences too). 14:34:48 <_Fury> is there a function so shuffle a list? 14:34:54 _Fury: same answer. 14:35:00 <_Fury> thanks 14:35:05 <_Fury> very good :))) 14:35:35 <_Fury> i forgot about elt... 14:36:17 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:36:28 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:15 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:38:23 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 billstclair [n=billstcl@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:39:20 what to use? cffi-groveller, swig, Verrazano or maybe something else? 14:39:27 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 14:39:48 -!- JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 14:39:49 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:18 How can I obtain (introspectively) information about the physical layout of a structure? 14:41:04 _Fury, take a look at alexandria; it comes with functions for both your questions 14:41:50 <_Fury> thanks. The function pjb gave me is enogh for me :). 14:42:00 <_Fury> Im trying to solve the n-puzzle 14:42:52 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 rudi [n=rudi@1x-193-157-203-135.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:44:08 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 -!- Intensity [i=[av++EeF@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:19 -!- dabd` [n=user@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:36 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:45:52 dabd [n=user@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:45:57 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:45:57 trittweiler: (class-wrapper (find-class )), and (sb-kernel:%instance-length ) 14:46:38 vng [n=user@123.20.124.179] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 hello #lisp 14:46:57 knobo: what for exactly? 14:47:51 -!- s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:48:17 s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has joined #lisp 14:48:57 are there any video lectures for lisp ? 14:49:05 or emacs ? 14:49:29 there's for slime 14:49:48 and for Scheme 14:50:04 Berkeley university has some nice scheme lessons, also Abelson and Sussman has a few others 14:50:05 yeah, the sicp lectures are available 14:50:20 Berkeley's ones are on youtube 14:50:25 maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 Good evening! 14:51:12 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYqShvVDh4 14:52:55 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:55:55 trittweiler? 14:56:15 hey, look, it's the 20th January 14:56:29 it's going to be a very boring sbcl release 14:57:52 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:58:05 Xof: yeah, what happened to nyef's plans? 15:00:18 aerique: for tokyo cabinet bindings for lisp 15:01:46 knobo: is that c or c++ 15:02:06 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:14 pkhuong, Does %cas imply some general memory barrier, or is it restricted to the operand word? (If the latter, how does with-mutex establish a happen-before relation? Or doesn't it?) 15:02:17 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:25 aerique: it's c, as far as I know 15:02:36 yes 15:02:48 a quick look at the src, tells me c 15:03:07 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.102] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:03:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-180-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:03:55 knobo: i can't help with that then 15:04:11 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.7] has joined #lisp 15:04:22 aerique: you'd say that anyway 15:04:26 :p 15:05:08 the question whas which tool to use to generate the lisp binding with. 15:05:16 I'll just pick one randomly. 15:05:34 knobo: start with cffi-grovel and then swig 15:06:58 -!- Guest34758 [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 15:07:07 aerique: any reason? 15:07:19 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has joined #lisp 15:07:25 trittweiler: i think it's on the cache line, in principle. The contract of posix mutex is that acquiring a mutex is a full barrier. 15:07:40 knobo: just a hunch ;-) 15:08:16 knobo: i don't know what's best for c, if it was c++ i could have told you what not to use 15:08:29 aerique: what is that? 15:12:50 -!- Bobrobyn_ [n=rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:29 longkid [n=lisp@113.22.181.60] has joined #lisp 15:14:49 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-29-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:15:38 aerique: you have used uffi and cffi quite alot? 15:15:55 pkhuong, a) what about futexes? (man pages let that question open afaics), b) what about releasing a mutex? 15:16:22 I want to know what happened to everyone's sbcl10 resolutions 15:16:27 mine included 15:16:31 like for okra 15:16:53 and ois 15:17:08 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:09 buclet 15:17:16 sdl 15:17:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:18:03 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:19:34 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-180-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:19:50 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:19:52 trittweiler: I think we're supposed to insert barriers. 15:20:06 and releasing a mutex doesn't have to be a barrier either. 15:23:01 spiaggia: hello 15:25:35 knobo: generally i use them the most at the initial phases of such projects and after that only when there are problems. i wouldn't say quite a lot since that could imply that i know them well 15:26:22 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:29:45 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:13 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229233207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:27 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:04 What's a good way to get the length of a structure slot? sb-kernel::structure-raw-slot-data on the dsd-type? 15:34:57 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 15:36:19 Intensity [i=[TwgZSVb@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 15:37:40 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:12 -!- kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142127001.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:35 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.79.217] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:38:54 raw-slot-data-n-words ? 15:40:17 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:50 well yeah a raw-slot-data is what structure-raw-slot-data returns 15:45:15 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:59 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:47:20 -!- rudi [n=rudi@1x-193-157-203-135.uio.no] has quit ["Client exciting"] 15:47:22 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 15:47:48 re-noi [n=user@95.214.76.188] has joined #lisp 15:51:23 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:51:33 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:52:39 TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:13 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 15:55:11 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-17-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:58:07 trittweiler pasted "slot-physical-size" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93642 15:59:40 I want to use that to assert that certain slots fit into a machine's word size because I make that assumption 15:59:51 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:00:04 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:29 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:38 Is there some obvious flaw in my thinking here? 16:01:59 <_8david> why would you do such a thing? ;-) 16:02:54 Well this is code that someone else than me will have to maintain, and I do make that assumption. So I thought, why not put it into the code, with an appropriate comment? 16:02:58 <_8david> ... I was about to say "but what if SBCL starts packing raw slots smaller than a word together", but if you're making this kind of 32bit/64bit "already-unportable" assumption, I guess future-proofing isn't the point here. 16:03:34 <_8david> Thinking about it, packing would involve a lot of work and API changes anyway. 16:03:50 _8david, Well ideally, something like this would become part of sbcl itself 16:04:36 gibranian1 [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 -!- longkid [n=lisp@113.22.181.60] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:24 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:05:32 _8david: also, packing multiple things into words can be nasty for performance (bitvectors are a common example) 16:05:53 ITYM "awesome" 16:05:54 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:06:03 *Xach* hugs his fast, fast bitvectors 16:06:39 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 16:06:45 Xach: does manage to optimize things like loops over them to only do one fetch per word? 16:07:23 (rather than one per bit) 16:07:36 tfb: yes 16:07:50 which implementation? CMUCL-derivatives? 16:07:58 sbcl 16:08:27 OK, I revise my comment to say "unless the compiler is very smart" :-) 16:09:05 tfb: It uses Warren's bit-tricks for things like (count 1 bitvector) 16:09:14 vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has joined #lisp 16:10:08 hey, is the AND type specifier supposed to short circuit? 16:10:43 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:22 Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:40 vsync, strictly speaking, the specification does not say so I think 16:12:04 Xach: and it can do things like (loop for b across ...)? 16:12:06 vsync, still most people write code with that assumption 16:12:18 it just bit me hard 16:12:25 strangely it's true in CMUCL but not SBCL 16:12:36 tfb: "can do" or "can do in some clever, fast way"? 16:12:49 vsync, what is not true? 16:13:03 that the AND type specifier short circuits 16:13:14 I was under impression that it does do that on sbcl 16:13:53 Xach: what I mean is, if I write a general loop across a bit vector (with suitable type declarations of course) will it generate a single fetch per word, or per bit? 16:13:59 vsync: test case please 16:14:36 tfb: I don't know. 16:15:05 (deftype function-designator () `(or function (and symbol (satisfies fboundp)))) is a common "mistake" 16:15:10 vsync pasted "AND type specifier doesn't short-circuit on SBCL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93643 16:15:31 i mean, if it's not required by the spec, it's not required by the spec 16:15:44 Xach: OK I'll have a play (I had some code which I could not get to go fast on CCL because of this (as well as because the code sucked)) 16:15:50 however i think the principle of least surprise would require that it act like the special form 16:16:02 and it seems you would have to work a bit at it to make it not act that way 16:16:08 tfb: Sure, but I bet it *compiled* really fast. 16:16:39 vsync: oh, that is interesting 16:16:45 I refuse to believe that machines still exist that do not complile anything fast 16:16:49 you don't have to work very hard to make it not act that way 16:18:19 -!- _Fury [n=Fury@p57904782.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:19:49 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:19:54 vsync: the reason for the difference is that in cmucl string is a single type, whereas in sbcl it is a union type 16:20:08 and the distribution of intersections over unions gets the order wrong 16:20:16 in a way that might be slightly tricky to fix 16:22:41 -!- s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:32 if it gets the order wrong does that mean that sometimes the resulting set of types is incorrect? 16:26:33 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:26:42 brain is fuzzy and discrete maths are hard after an all nighter 16:28:11 a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has joined #lisp 16:30:59 no 16:31:06 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:31:15 because in formal discrete maths (and A B) is the same as (and B A) 16:31:35 you only get problems if you have a side-effect in your satisfies function 16:31:44 discrete maths tends not to involve side effecrts 16:32:11 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:35:40 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:36:43 maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has joined #lisp 16:37:12 Xof: is "failing to terminate" a side-effect? 16:37:15 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:37 *tfb* thinks it probably is I suppose 16:37:53 maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has joined #lisp 16:38:20 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:38:36 tfb: sure, because that doesn't apply if you get yourself a proper computer 16:38:52 a proper computer takes 1s to execute the first instruction, 0.5s for the second, 0.25s for the third... 16:38:58 er? 16:39:07 ah that kind 16:40:26 tfb: non-termination is indeed an effect. 16:40:31 vsync: anyway, could you file a bug at launchpad, or failing that send mail to sbcl-bugs? 16:41:05 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:37 imthenachoman [i=60ff338f@gateway/web/freenode/x-dgtyzmqeeiggzzwr] has joined #lisp 16:41:40 okay. i have a question that i am about to post on a few language channels but thats because i do not know hwat language it was writte in. someone made a calculator website that had conversions for all types of things. like to calculate how much jello (in pounds) would fit in an olympic size pool. anyone remmeber it? 16:46:14 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:20 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 16:48:03 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:36 -!- re-noi [n=user@95.214.76.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:18 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.192.59] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:51:21 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 16:53:05 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.251.208] has joined #lisp 16:54:21 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:36 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:54:41 I have made up my mind. I'll make a tokyo cabinet library for lisp with swig. 16:54:46 :) 16:54:54 never used cffi or swig before 16:54:57 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:19 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:22 knobo: :) 16:56:29 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 16:57:23 -!- imthenachoman [i=60ff338f@gateway/web/freenode/x-dgtyzmqeeiggzzwr] has left #lisp 16:58:10 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:58:25 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-123-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:43 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:59:07 -!- RaceCondition [n=erik@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [] 17:01:48 -!- Edward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-205.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:02:11 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:03:25 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:04:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:06:00 ramus_ [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-147-65.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:00 -!- ramus [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-146-135.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:05 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-226-20.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:07:44 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:56 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 -!- vng [n=user@123.20.124.179] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:09:03 astalla [n=astalla@93-36-229-66.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:11:51 http://github.com/knobo/tc-cffi-test 17:12:12 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:13:06 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:13:59 knobo: look up the code I wrote for cl-tc in terms of swig-generated binding - it's nearly what is generated by default in swig, except with some bugs corrected (SWIG had problems with some defines that are used for enums etc., so I had to copy include files directly into interface files and manually correct the errors) 17:15:17 p_l: I have looked at it. I was able to genereate something that I could use. 17:15:24 -!- BunzOfSteel [n=bunz@pool-173-56-111-193.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:25 I'm in the process of learning. 17:15:27 -!- ramus_ is now known as ramus 17:15:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:54 like the #. for the enums (ash ...) 17:16:55 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:16:58 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 17:17:02 i wonder how #b1.... would look instead. 17:18:23 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-45-214.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:18:39 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:18:58 -!- Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:33 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 17:19:55 rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:21:58 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit ["I'll be back"] 17:23:41 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:23:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:25:16 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 17:25:40 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.192.59] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 carlocci: 17:34:45 carlocci: is that you? 17:35:55 Blkt: try: /who carlocci 17:36:04 re-noi [n=user@95.214.28.198] has joined #lisp 17:36:23 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:36:29 pjb: is not that easy :D 17:37:06 I'm quite sure he's a friend of mine 17:37:28 but the ip and stuff is not enough to check it out 17:38:32 yes he is 17:39:39 happy birthday to youuuu, happy birthday to youuuu.... 17:39:49 lol? 17:40:57 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:44:14 ryepup1 [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:30 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-123-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:44:43 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.87.75] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:48:10 Edward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-213.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:53:08 seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-8-230-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:35 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:02 is calling READ or READ-LINE or whatever still the only remotely standardized way to get a value from a user at a restart? 17:55:09 like, even SLIME doesn't have hooks? 17:55:49 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:55:51 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:56:47 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 17:57:53 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:01:19 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:02:40 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:07:32 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:48 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:42 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.80.3] has joined #lisp 18:11:03 aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 18:11:57 vsync: for interactive I/O you should use *QUERY-IO*. 18:12:07 vsync: trying to write and read from *query-io* _may_ involve windows/dialogs, or swank/slime/emacs interaction. 18:12:10 At least, that's the standard way to do it... 18:15:22 snearch [n=olaf@g225056187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:27 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-226-20.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 18:16:44 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:42 -!- re-noi [n=user@95.214.28.198] has quit ["leaving"] 18:19:59 unicode [n=user@95.214.28.198] has joined #lisp 18:24:42 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 18:25:00 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:26:28 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.7] has quit [] 18:27:10 -!- milanj- [n=milan@77.46.251.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:56 jmbr [n=jmbr@14.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:30:08 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:30:44 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 vsync, there's also :interactive to restart-case and restart-bind 18:30:58 clhs restart-case 18:30:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rst_ca.htm 18:31:16 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 18:33:36 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-29-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:35:35 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-29-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:36:16 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.156] has joined #lisp 18:40:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bpdeqlqlaapronil] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 vsync: See last item here: http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/ 18:40:33 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:40:56 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:07 I started working on it but haven't come very far. I have an rough idea how I'd like the api to be. 18:41:21 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95.24.85.167] has quit [] 18:41:36 Actually I want to extend that work to a named-restarts library which provides dylan-like hierarchy for restarts 18:41:48 (that's where Xof's sublass structures patch will come in handy.) 18:42:06 subclass 18:42:38 -!- PuffTheMagic_ is now known as PuffTheMagic 18:43:08 Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:43:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bpdeqlqlaapronil] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:44 abugosh [n=Adium@70.44.160.58.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:47 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:49:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-rtnosrerojnieork] has joined #lisp 18:53:22 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:57:30 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 19:00:51 knobo [n=user@s0023-0003.dsl.start.no] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:38 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-44-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 19:14:24 -!- Pepe__ [n=ppjet@82.225.76.148] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:17:31 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:21:52 tcr: has there been a change in slime in/around autodoc in the past couple of days? 19:22:25 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224047086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:28 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:42 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:25:53 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:26:45 holy sh*t, I could not type the right letters 3 times in gmail while registering a new account... 19:27:50 too much coffee, or too little coffee? :-) 19:28:03 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 19:28:10 for me it is really hard to read those letters 19:28:19 maybe I should use some software :D 19:28:50 ah, the captchas? yeah, they can be challenging. 19:29:15 heh 19:30:03 oh, yes, google has those wrong in some ways 19:30:44 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:30:48 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-53-213.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:31:33 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 19:33:59 davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:15 tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has joined #lisp 19:35:01 -!- derrida [n=phantom@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit ["leaving"] 19:38:57 Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:57 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:08 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:45:38 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:50:13 -!- Edward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-67-213.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:03 RaceCondition [n=erik@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 19:52:45 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 19:53:08 abugosh1 [n=Adium@75.97.225.176.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:55:46 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:54 Fade: No, why do you ask? 19:56:05 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@70.44.160.58.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:23 just built a new sbcl and installed slime /w clbuild and I was getting protocol errors on autodoc 19:56:56 rather strangely, they don't appear whe clozure common lisp is the inferior lisp. 19:56:56 are you sure the right version of slime is loaded? 19:57:18 reasonably sure 19:57:29 yeah there's some clozure/mcl guy doing some changes 19:57:30 the paths are right in my .emacs file 19:57:58 Can you post them to the mailing list? 19:58:25 manually stopping autodoc-mode and restrting it seems to have alleviated the issue. the next time I restart, I'll capture some info. 19:58:38 where is the mailing list subscription hosted? 19:58:44 notice that slime-autodoc-mode is a buffer local binding 19:59:01 Fade: It's on gmane; you may still have to be subscribed to post (and not just read) though 19:59:18 ok 19:59:23 Fade: Alternatively, you can paste it here first 19:59:29 *Fade* nods 19:59:41 I'll capture the info when it next pops up. 19:59:49 though stassats does not seem to be here, and I don't want to update and break mine because I work on other stuff right now :-) 19:59:52 I wasn't really aiming for toolsmithing, but got surprised. :) 20:04:49 skeptomai [n=cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:57 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 20:07:39 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 20:13:02 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:05 benny` [n=benny@i577A1B4A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:38 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:13:43 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:11 -!- abugosh1 [n=Adium@75.97.225.176.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:15:12 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:45 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 20:17:22 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:23 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 varjag [n=eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:21:17 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:23:22 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 20:23:23 I would have thought that slots with :type (unsigned-byte 64) would be stored unboxed; but inspecting the layout, shows n-untagged-slots 0 20:23:37 Is that not the case? Why not? 20:24:28 Lack of resources, I mean, money and time for the compiler writers to implement all the imaginable optimizations. 20:25:07 marioxcc [n=user@200.66.24.114] has joined #lisp 20:25:09 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.80.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:30 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-74.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:26:35 hah, (typep 1.0 '(complex double)) gives a known bug; is double actually a specified type? 20:26:38 clhs double 20:26:38 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for double. 20:27:36 clhs double-float 20:27:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_short_.htm 20:27:46 remember, this is Common Lisp, not C. 20:28:35 pjb: You are full of helpful advice today! 20:30:14 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:24 How do you pass a function? this isn't working like I think it would 20:30:31 (defun math-table (equation) 20:30:32 (dotimes (x 10) 20:30:34 (format t "loop ~a~%" (equation x) ))) 20:30:36 (math-table (lambda (x) (+ 5 x)) ) 20:30:38 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A199B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:39 clhs funcall 20:30:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm 20:32:34 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:34:16 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:34:23 Lithos: Why did you expect that to work? 20:34:34 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 20:34:36 newbie 20:35:02 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:51 Lithos: Do you know Scheme? 20:36:00 no 20:36:05 Hmm. 20:36:16 I'm using Clisp and I'm kind of just experimenting 20:36:16 minion: tell Lithos about PCL 20:36:17 Lithos: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:36:37 I'm reading through it right now. 20:36:56 Well, Lisp has multiple namespaces, and the first element of a list such as (f x y z) is treated differently from the others, in that it is evaluated in the namespace of functions. 20:37:46 However, `equation' in your function math-table is not in that namespace, so you need to use funcall to get around that. 20:37:58 in other words, you can do (setq a 3) and (defun a () 5) 20:38:00 a -> 3 20:38:02 (a) -> 5 20:38:10 tyr42 [n=tyr_god_@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:10 a symbol's "value" and "function" are two separate things 20:38:55 So: (format t "loop ~a~%" funcall equation x ))) I get it to loop but it's using 2 for the return value. 20:39:08 parens around (funcall equation x) 20:39:16 ok 20:39:28 Lithos: you need the parentheses to have a function call. 20:39:36 Parentheses <=> function call. 20:39:45 That works 20:39:49 Thank you. 20:40:15 Lithos: nothince that you cannot put surnumerous parentheses, since that would mean surnumerous function calls. 20:40:25 s/thin/ti 20:40:44 also, don't put a space between x and ). 20:41:35 Ok I'll watch the spaces. I'm used to other languages. 20:42:20 That's pretty clever to write that in any other language I know would take forever. 20:43:29 Thanks again for the help everyone. 20:43:53 You're welcome. Come back with any further question you may have! 20:45:19 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.79.5] has joined #lisp 20:46:16 -!- konr` [n=user@189.96.105.86] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:24 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-21-15.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:48:52 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.28.198] has quit ["leaving"] 20:49:38 pr [n=pr@p579CA4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 lahmas [n=bravsein@d86-32-199-55.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 20:49:58 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:50:34 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:48 hiho 20:53:10 is there a package which can split a sequence by another sequence? 20:53:23 split-sequence 20:53:50 the reason is: i want to split a data format which uses something like "begin data(" data ")" 20:54:04 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 i can only find split-sequence splitting at chars 20:54:16 not at "begin data" 20:54:45 ah 20:55:07 ppcre perhaps 20:55:13 Russel-Athletic: it's easy enough to find the markers on which you want to split the string with SEARCH. 20:55:37 ppcre seems like a good idea, thanks 20:55:40 -!- lahmas [n=bravsein@d86-32-199-55.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:46 pjb: i want to do as little work as possible :) 20:55:48 Also, if your data is somewhat like lisp data, you could read the two symbols BEGIN and DATA, and then read the list ( data )... 20:56:07 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:56:26 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:56:28 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 20:56:53 (with-input-from-string (in "begin data(x y z 1 2 3)") (read in) (read in) (read in)) --> (X Y Z 1 2 3) 20:58:11 i will try this 21:00:53 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:01:23 -!- astalla [n=astalla@93-36-229-66.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 21:01:25 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 21:01:28 hello 21:02:04 Hi! 21:03:32 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Client Quit] 21:05:13 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-53-213.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:05:45 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-59-45.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:05 ysph [n=user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:56 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:25 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:30 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-126-193.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Client Quit] 21:10:35 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-97-2.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:10:53 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-152.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 21:11:34 yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:37 hi folks 21:11:46 please help me understand something in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_%28computer_science%29 21:12:02 tcr pasted "sbcl patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93657 21:12:13 the first example, the "best-selling-books" function, under "Closures and first-class functiosn" 21:12:28 Can anyone with a fast machine please do a quick build&test run with that patch? 21:12:30 where does "book" come from? 21:13:00 oh! 21:13:00 yates: each element of book-list is passed in turn 21:13:02 i see 21:13:34 is taht what "filter" does? 21:14:15 Xach: actually, that's not what I thought was going on - are you sure you're correct? 21:14:18 book is the parameter of an anonymous function introduced by lambda. 21:14:37 yates: See the paragraphs immediately after the code. 21:14:42 -!- Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2009122116]"] 21:15:13 Xach is correct: book is bound each element from book-list in turn. This is part of what filter does. 21:15:18 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:29 ok, i'm reading and thinking... thanks. 21:16:40 -!- Blkt [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:43 (i'm slow) 21:16:53 Blkt [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:17:02 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-21-15.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:17:10 phf` [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:12 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:26 afternoon 21:19:26 btw, are parameters passed by reference or by value by default in lisp? 21:19:29 hello slyrus 21:19:32 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:52 hey fe[nl]ix, what's new? 21:20:40 yates: they are passed by value. 21:20:46 -!- knobo [n=user@s0023-0003.dsl.start.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:21:10 slyrus: I have no idea 21:21:20 yates: however, if the variable "holds" a vector, then in fact it holds a pointer to the vector, which is passed by value. 21:21:40 "The closure is then passed to the filter function, which calls it repeatedly..." - when it calls the lambda function, what does it use for the parameter "book"? 21:21:51 prxq: acknowldged -thanks 21:22:07 very much like C. 21:22:39 Uhm 21:22:55 well, there is no equivalent to from(&i); for example 21:23:03 s/from/frob/ 21:23:39 can you use continuation? 21:23:40 yates: filter applies the function defined by the lambda expression u saw in the example to each element of the book-list, so u get for each book in book-list, its price is compared to the threshold and (I suppose) a new list is returned 21:24:24 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:24 yates: CL does not support full continuations 21:25:58 prxq: does scheme? 21:26:43 yes 21:26:51 Blkt: doh! OH... 21:26:53 thank you 21:27:29 it helps to read and interpret the ENTIRE function and not stop before the last line... 21:28:45 so will this example not work in CL? 21:29:39 (re: no full continuations) 21:29:45 any sbcl developers around? 21:29:54 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:02 yates: this has nothing to do with continuations. 21:32:01 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-97-2.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:32:06 prxq: any progress on that ccl memory fault issue? 21:32:19 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93409.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:20 Xach: If I modify really-old blog postings of mine, will they get reshown by planet.lisp? 21:33:34 (I do -not- want that, I just want to update a link.) 21:33:41 yates: (defun best-selling-book (booklist threshold) (remove-if-not #'(lambda (book) (>= (book-sales book) threshold)) booklist)) would be the cl equiv 21:35:00 tcr: I passed it to the clozure list. We've already found out that it does not crash if I run ccl inside of gdb. 21:35:36 -!- Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:35:37 but no progress beyond that yet. 21:35:57 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:31 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:03 *drewc* *yawn* *stretch* .. it was a late one last night! 21:38:08 prxq: gdb is a debugger. it worked! 21:38:23 prxq: You should look for commons between the two machines 21:39:18 tcr: they run jaunty on 64 bits. That's what they have in common. Oh, and me as the user :-) 21:39:42 rme: yeah, damn effective debugger for sure! 21:40:07 egn [n=egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:41 It seems nobody runs ccl on jaunty, 21:40:52 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:27 does that mean same kernel version, libc version? 21:41:43 dunno what else might be interesting for ccl 21:41:46 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:09 right, they have both the same kernel and the same libc. 21:43:27 wich is where I think the problem must lie. 21:45:13 upgrading to Karmic is not an option right now. The last few times (!) i tried karmic, something always went wrong. 21:46:18 i ran ccl on jaunty until about two months ago. 21:46:50 1) The upgrade broke at 98% on some ridiculous font issue, leaving the machine unusable. 2,3,4) I installed it on two laptops and one desktop machine, and experienced hangs in the network manager, and other stuff. 21:47:23 you aren't the first person I've heard make those complaints; it has been pretty good for me, so far. 21:47:30 *prxq* .oO(karmic indeed) 21:47:33 I'm on the latest, and until a few days ago there was a major memory leak problem in pulseaudio 21:48:02 Fade: lucky you. It has me a bit worried. 21:48:19 fersure 21:48:31 mirmillo [n=oijhif@92.85.223.242] has joined #lisp 21:48:36 oh god, Linux audio. 21:48:37 how's the next version called? loopy lemur? 21:48:42 I now always do sudo service udev stop, because that "service" causes me a load-average of 1.5-2.0 21:48:44 :-) 21:49:00 tcr: that sucks 21:49:24 i have some issues with knotify instances filling up the process table after a few days; but judicious application of kill solves that in the meantime. 21:50:12 pr_ [n=pr@p579CADE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:20 yeah, but please. That's the definition of a buggy OS. Jaunty at leas works decently 21:50:20 -!- bill` [n=bill@i.want.to.nukeafrica.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:31 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:50:33 tcr: oh god, shitaudio. :D 21:50:34 hefner: that programmer view picture was made by you? 21:51:04 tcr: it was. it wasn't meant to be a deep social commentary. 21:51:36 tcr: I heard that ALSA can be a handful enough... add ShitAudio and fecal matter hits the fan 21:51:44 hefner: It's brilliant. The Lisp row is totally, subtly on. 21:51:55 tcr: thanks. 21:52:14 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:52:20 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 21:52:58 hah, i attributed luis oliveira when I posted that to my facebook page the other day. 21:52:59 -!- mirmillo [n=oijhif@92.85.223.242] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:12 I got tired of Ubuntu, which is why I switched to Gentoo. 21:53:13 v.funny. :) 21:53:45 In fact, I need to delete my Ubuntu partition and use that space for something productive. 21:53:49 fractalis: I have my doubts with regards to that decission. 21:53:58 ditto 21:54:09 prxq: What do you mean? 21:54:15 gentoo has better support for common-lisp :-) 21:54:19 mirmillo [n=oijhif@92.85.223.242] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:57 tcr: The only problem I had was with the USE flags, the first time I emerged SBCL I didn't set the right USE flag to enable threads. So, when I went to go re-emerge all the compiled lisp code from clbuild wasn't good anymore, or perhaps I just did something really stupid without realzing it. In any case, I had to re-run clbuild and install all the packages over again. 21:56:07 But otherwise, I agree with that statement. 21:56:20 fractalis: well, might be that gentoo improved since I last used it. Once upon a time, it was known as the ricer OS, or alternatively "learning unix by watching shit scroll by" OS 21:56:42 do people still use slackware? 21:56:50 some do, for sure. 21:56:55 slack is still alive 21:57:01 they had a release recently 21:57:20 I was rather happy with ubuntu until karmic 21:57:42 i still prefer debian in general, but use ubuntu in specific situations. 21:57:56 -!- phf` [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:57:58 *prxq* nover got debian to work 21:58:16 a lot of the same complaints people are making about karmic were made when jaunty was released. 21:58:27 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:27 -!- happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:28 It just kept failing 21:58:38 happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has joined #lisp 21:58:40 prxq: I updated from 8.04 to 9.10 (that are three releases), and the updates went totally smoothly in the background. So they actually do a good job on average I guess :-) 21:58:47 Fade: right, but I had luck back then :-) 21:58:55 heh 21:59:05 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 21:59:26 tcr: I just did the same thing with my girlfriend's computer. everything just worked at the end, so I chalked up the win and put away the tech support hat for another six months. 22:00:35 francogrex [n=user@135.101-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 22:01:26 hefner: you were way to light on C/C++. Very funny, but way too light :-) 22:01:30 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:44 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 22:02:04 python could have had the teletubbies 22:02:07 prxq: I consider them very useful and powerful, even if I think most C++ programmers are screwed in the head 22:02:17 oh, teletubbies, brilliant. 22:02:42 I think the kid holding the drawing for python was the idea that started the whole thing, though. 22:02:42 hefner: C++ is mindrotting 22:03:11 prxq: No, you're pretty much still right about that. When I first set-up my Gentoo installation it was a lot of watching everything scroll-by. Still is, whenever I emerge a new package. But, I must admit I have learned a lot about Linux in the process, and I do feel I have a bit more control over the system. But, Ubuntu should release a "Ubuntu Advanced" version, where you basically get nothing but a terminal and apt-get. 22:03:38 fractalis: it's called "Debian" 22:03:44 prxq: Maybe it is. I don't use it much anymore. I'm considering taking it up again the next time I start a project from scratch which I'd otherwise have used C for. 22:03:47 Fade: Good point. 22:03:47 fractalis: If you want that, I'd go with arch then 22:04:00 arch is a nice balance between ubuntu and gentoo 22:04:01 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:04:15 TDT: I tried Arch, it was nice - until I screwed up my installation and lost my Arch CD, was too lazy to download it again and re-burn it. 22:04:28 oh, you can install a very basic ubuntu. Then you do apt-get install xubuntu-desktop, and there you go :-) Shit scrolls by copiously as well. 22:04:32 fractalis: lol..well no fault in arch on that :) 22:04:47 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:04:59 TDT: No, none at all. I think Arch is an amazing distro. 22:05:04 hefner: I doubt you will get lost in the maze. But lots of people do 22:05:09 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:10 fractalis: regarding the "had to reinstall everything from clbuild" that's a problem with fasl versions - I have a handler in ASDF that recompiles the file everytime the fasl loading files because of incorrect versions :) 22:05:49 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:50 hefner: in particular if you don't know other programming languages other than C 22:06:02 hefner: I worked at a company that did all their development in C++, on three separate platforms (VMS, Linux, and Windows). I still have a feeling that everything was held together by a lot of duct tape and luck. 22:06:36 that's sort of the state of computation in 2010 in general. :) 22:06:42 prxq: C++ ceased to be my language of choice the day I learned scheme. 22:06:44 it's all just duct tape and bailing wire. 22:07:01 fractalis: did they have a product that was available from single codebase on all three platforms? :D 22:07:07 (scheme ceased to be my language of choice when I started thumbing through CLtL1 on a long car ride) 22:07:23 hefner: I hope you weren't driving :-) 22:07:36 p_l: I sort of figured that, it wasn't too much of an inconvenience and at least something I can keep in mind in the future. I'm actually still new to clbuild, I'd only used asdf-install before. 22:07:53 I went from C++ back to C, after seeing colleagues get utterly lost in the template maze. 22:08:23 splittist [i=50a9827e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ohoyparudbejnusz] has joined #lisp 22:08:25 morning 22:08:53 then realized that C couldn't be it. 22:09:00 fractalis: lol, no not at all. Some of Linux was independent from the other two, and some of it just had a lot of inter-dependencies on one another. 22:09:12 prxq: my parallel, C-hacking self reverting to C mostly because everything worth mentioning in Linuxland used it, and I figured they must know what they're doing. :) 22:09:13 p_l pasted "auto-recompilation in ASDF w/ SBCL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93662 22:09:17 I should stop talking to myself, that was meant for p_l btw 22:10:00 canard [n=canard@chello212017079198.13.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:10:11 prxq: One of my friends/co-workers was a template fanatic, he thought they were like the greatest things since sliced bread. But to give him credit, he did some crazy stuff with them. 22:10:37 prxq: I finally gave up on C++ when if(!some_pointer) caused template error 22:10:58 -!- mischief [n=mischief@unaffiliated/mischief] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:10:59 How to create a file which contain a wildchar in the name ? 22:11:12 -!- prip [n=_prip@79.36.128.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:14 What I hate is how annoying the compiler output is when you have an error with a template in C++ 22:11:21 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:31 do you know of any circuit simulator written in lisp? 22:11:33 For example, I try to create a file named "te?st.txt" 22:12:33 why would you want to do that? 22:13:18 maybe the user typed a '?' 22:13:47 Still begs to question on the reason why anyone would want that 22:13:49 konr [n=user@189.96.195.199] has joined #lisp 22:14:06 *hefner* pull the pin 22:14:20 fractalis: I associate with template fanatics an image of thoroughly pierced and tatooed punks :-) 22:14:26 do what: simulator or make a typo '?' ? 22:14:47 francogrex: the question mark in a file name 22:15:08 prxq: I was actually thinking more of someone dressed in full leather carrying a whip, but I suppose that image is accurate too. 22:15:23 yes true, and also what has it got to do with lisp, 22:15:25 ? 22:16:08 templates are fun! 22:16:56 maybe one can write an AI in CL that interpretes template error messages. 22:19:45 simple: files nqmes are generated from some text-document titles. And some titles contains '*' or '?' ... 22:20:22 -!- morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f754dfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:36 and still ... if my filesystem allow me to create such filename, CL should give me the ability to do so (I guess) 22:21:20 canard: indeed. Using a physical pathname. 22:21:21 canard: but not necessarily via logical pathnames 22:22:09 what is a "physical pathname" ? 22:22:16 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:22:20 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225056187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:22:57 canard: the thing you put in quotes. 22:23:04 canard: depends on the file system. Something like #P"/some/path/to/your/file" on POSIX systems. 22:23:05 it's probably a mundane question: would it be possible to have lisp programs useable from a webpage? 22:23:19 (with-open-file (str "foo/bar/baz" ...) .... 22:23:24 francogrex: indeed. 22:23:25 like what they call webapplications, like those java applets 22:23:42 pjb: indeed possible or indeed mundane? 22:23:54 francogrex: for this, you need to have a lisp processor in the browser. 22:24:13 francogrex: somebody embeded ecl in firefox. 22:24:17 francogrex: you can compile an ActiveX in ECL 22:24:36 that's awesome. 22:24:39 pjb; but can you point me to a project like? 22:24:46 an example 22:24:47 francogrex: also, there was some old browser that used a lisp-like language for scripting before JavaScript was created 22:25:10 I don't get it: I have a string with my filename containing a wikdcar. I can create a pathname from this string. But I would like to say ":do-not-interpret-wildcar" 22:25:14 javascript was a lisp like language before they decorated it with all that awful syntax. 22:25:18 I don't have any URL at hand. I remember having read about it while browsing the web. Use google. 22:25:32 Fade: I meant another language from a completely different company :) 22:25:39 ahh. :) 22:25:41 p_l: ok I see then it's not pissible to ask tom or harry to go with their good old explorer and run the applications on the webpage 22:25:43 -!- mirmillo [n=oijhif@92.85.223.242] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:25:59 francogrex: it's possible if they can use ActiveX controls 22:26:03 whenever I'm forced to deal with js, I always think... "You know, this would be a pretty nice language if they just left it as scheme." 22:26:09 pjb: Is the project where ECL was embedded in Firefox still around? 22:26:18 no one wants to run things in browser plugins 22:26:28 fractalis: I don't know. 22:26:37 In any case, the problem is not doing it, it's distributing it! 22:26:39 *p_l* recalls the times when ActiveX was big and Delphi had that uber-awesome support for building applications with it 22:26:49 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:26:57 It's better to use ajax and run the code in the server. 22:27:03 pjb: Sorry, saw your comment that you didn't have the URL on hand after I sent the msg. 22:27:07 and use parenscript for JS :) 22:27:28 i used parenscript to help me learn javascript 22:27:31 There are also mini schemes implemented in javascript. 22:27:45 when I went looking for a good javascript book, i found that they were all written for idiots. 22:27:53 Fade: true, it's nicer than "real" JS 22:27:58 prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:28:11 there's a javascript implementation written in common-lisp in the mozilla source repo. 22:28:13 canard: indeed, implementations are allowed to restrict physical pathnames, and refuse wildcards there. 22:28:21 p_l: well, I'm looking for a solution where even my gradfather can work it out by asking him to go to http://... without downloading plugins or anything 22:28:25 canard: you have to live with it, or use lower level API such as FFI to POSIX I/O. 22:28:44 mayve then it's the server that needs to run the prom 22:28:50 It would be nice to have an easy "JS framework" that used parenscript and deployed pure JS (for usage in cases where you don't necessarily have a CL on server) 22:28:50 prog 22:29:04 francogrex: well, one option is using ABCL and Java Applet 22:29:07 pjb: ok ! So lisp-spec said that you may not be able to create such files ! Ok. 22:29:15 *francogrex* is an imbecile, makes more spelling mistakes than actual real words 22:29:49 or clojure 22:30:07 : would be ok; pointer to an example perhaps? 22:30:24 let us google that for you.. :) 22:30:24 or clojure <<< francogrex shudders!! 22:30:28 In any case, a lot of work is being invested in javascript engines. It should be possible to implement a CL on Javascript that is not, or soon won't be, too slow. 22:30:47 good lord 22:30:53 i sincerely hope not. 22:30:54 lol 22:30:58 -!- varjag [n=eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:15 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229233207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:31:16 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:27 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:31:37 better would be a browswer with a common lisp compiler inside it that manifests a javascript environment. 22:31:47 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f051015080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:31:56 prxq: isn't the fact that "threshold" is lexically closed from the top-level function into the lambda function an example of a continuation? 22:32:00 Fade: sure, but who will download such a browser? 22:32:14 beyond the people sitting in this channel? 22:32:32 I guess it'd depend on whether the feature actually caused any compelling systems to be built. 22:32:42 yates: No, it's a closure. 22:32:48 Continuations are something else. 22:33:05 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:33:31 well, one could also try to leverage Google's Native Client 22:33:44 pjb: in this same article, we read "Closures are used to implement continuation passing style" 22:33:52 Fade: sure. "It's the application stupid". Let's implement interesting applications! 22:34:04 yates: that helps, sure. 22:34:08 well, zckly 22:34:19 francogrex: after all, Native Client managed to run Quake inside a browser... 22:34:20 yates: it would be hard to use continuations without closures... 22:34:23 pjb: do you have an example that illustrates continuation? 22:34:31 hi, I've been using this example http://jsnell.iki.fi/tmp/echo-server.lisp for a server<->client. It's using sb-impl::add-fd-handler to catch connections from a client. I've asked a few questions, and I get the response "I would use threading for that" but I don't know what to listen/wait for connections without using sb-impl::add-fd-handler. How would I do that? 22:34:35 a pointer? 22:34:35 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:34:41 ,continuation 22:34:48 yates: a continuation is a function that is called to "continue" the current function, instead of returning. 22:35:23 yates: there's an involved example, including an implementation of continuations in common lisp in Paul Graham's book "On Lisp" 22:35:32 which is, I think, available from his website. 22:35:34 http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/ <--- possible way to run Lisp on browser 22:35:50 yates: (defun square (x cont) (funcall cont (* x x))) (square 2 (function print)) 22:36:05 pjb: so you mean that when the continuation function returns, it returns to the original function's caller? 22:36:12 yates: instead of writing: (defun square (x) (* x x)) (print (square 2)) 22:36:25 Fade: ok, i'll google for that - thx 22:36:32 yates: in continuation passing style, functions never return. They jump to their continuation. 22:36:49 francogrex: mind that even if you used Native Client, you might need to use ECL due to possible issues between NC memory model and other implementations 22:37:01 if you're actually trying to grapple with what continuations are, you'd probably be better served by using scheme as a learning tool. 22:37:24 scheme has a call/cc built in. 22:37:42 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:37:49 While some CL primitives are somewhat antagonist to continuations. 22:38:01 In CL we can easily only implement a restricted subset of continuations. 22:38:02 Fade: my eventual goal is to experiment with weblocks, so i thought it might be good to know what continuations are... 22:38:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:23 well, there are several implementations of continuations in common lisp at this point. 22:38:33 uncommon web uses one, weblocks another. 22:38:41 does weblocks use marco barringer's stuff? 22:38:55 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-41-208-202-64.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:39:12 Fade: you're asking me? http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-weblocks/ 22:39:22 the web url is about all i know about it at this point... 22:39:26 i was asking in general 22:39:33 weblocks uses cl-cont 22:39:42 at any rate, i don't think it's something to get all hung up on if you're just starting out. 22:39:44 p_l: native client seems quite cool 22:39:53 there are other things to confront first. :) 22:40:10 Fade: well, knowing what to "get hung up on" and wnat not to isn't so obvious to me 22:40:13 rme: thanks 22:40:33 Fade: like clos? 22:40:51 or how about cl? :) 22:40:58 clos is a huge system, the learning of which is profoundly rewarding 22:41:11 but I mean with regard to common lisp in general. 22:41:21 clos gives lisp closure, right? 22:41:32 yates: no. 22:41:32 *yates* is joking... 22:41:43 yates: but closures and objects are equivalent. 22:42:03 francogrex: well, it's definitely enough to run Quake, so I think it should suffice :D 22:42:08 p_l: Native client seems intense 22:46:13 tcr: Only if it updates the publish date 22:50:10 Xach: you are having conversations with people who don't seem to be interacting with you 22:50:46 I hope all is ok there! 22:51:50 Xach: Hm ok how does that work technically? 22:52:25 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:28 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:28 francogrex: That's incorrect. 22:53:59 tcr: It uses the universal feed parser and uses one of several possible dates in an item to use for the timestamp 22:54:08 tcr: there's a published date, an updated date, and some other ones 22:54:36 So if I modify, the rss will reflect that, but if the publish date didn't change, planet.lisp won't show it? 22:54:51 tcr: That depends on your software. 22:55:06 tcr: It might not appear in your rss at all, if it is too old 22:55:45 lisppaste: URL? 22:55:45 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 22:55:54 tcr: I don't think it will make a difference on blogger 22:56:26 tcr: If it causes a problem, I will fix it. 22:57:09 drewc pasted "WTF: Working Test Framework - Proof of concept" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93663 22:57:15 -!- rme [rme@clozure-51821EF0.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:57:16 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:57:22 tcr: we were talking about that yesterday ^ 22:57:34 Xach: now there's a quote to take out of context 22:57:42 *Krystof* plans to ask Xach to fix all sorts of problems now 22:58:13 *Xach* will issue numbers 22:59:04 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:59:17 -!- konr [n=user@189.96.195.199] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:20 drewc annotated #93663 "example use" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93663#1 23:01:04 konr [n=user@189.96.195.199] has joined #lisp 23:01:05 I thought that name looked suspiciously drewc'ish. :) 23:01:09 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:01:31 yeah, why break with tradition? 23:01:49 i'm all for it. I still have a system named SRSLY on my disk. :) 23:02:19 dsop [i=dsp@ns.experimentalworks.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:51 i gave a talk one that i titled "LOL : ROLFMAO" :D 23:02:54 once* 23:02:59 I'm fairly new to lisp, and just now scheme a little bit. now i'm looking for a free common lisp compiler and it seems that there are multiple out there, so the question is what is the most common used (I fear that is kind of a flamewar question) 23:03:07 -!- RaceCondition [n=erik@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [] 23:03:22 dsop: what platform? 23:03:28 drewc: mac os 23:03:33 or freebsd 23:03:35 I've both 23:03:38 minion: tell dsop about CCL 23:03:39 dsop: please see CCL: CCL is Clozure Common Lisp, or Clozure CL for short. http://www.cliki.net/CCL 23:03:45 minion: tell dsop about SBCL 23:03:46 dsop: look at SBCL: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/SBCL 23:03:57 dsop: can't go wrong with either of those two 23:04:12 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 23:04:19 drewc: thank you! 23:04:28 dsop: my suggestion would be to install a binary package of SBCL, and get clbuild 23:04:31 minion: clbuild? 23:04:32 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 23:04:33 although CCL has been known to parade around in women's clothes when it thinks no one is looking 23:04:48 hefner: some of us things that's a good thing! 23:04:52 us think* 23:05:17 dsop: clbuild can compile CCL and SBCL for you, and install libraries too. 23:05:45 drewc: sounds good 23:05:56 I kind of like that about ccl. :) 23:05:59 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:04 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 23:06:21 krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:26 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:32 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 23:06:45 -!- TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:58 sbcl, OTOH, has been known to be involved in strange rites involving kittens of death.... 23:07:11 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CADE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 23:07:21 awesome, isn't it? 23:07:48 CCL is definitely tamer than SBCL 23:08:14 fack. i'm really in the mood for boat drinks. 23:08:28 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:29 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:09:44 boat drinks? 23:09:55 Krystof: I don't suppose you know if anyone's looked at Kei Suzuki's patch for darwin/x86-64 sb-posix:stat problems? 23:09:58 Is both-&optional-and-&key-in-lambda-list too mouthful? Starting symbols with an ampersand has unpleasing fontification consequences. 23:10:04 *drewc* looks at the coffee in his hand, and the boat surrounding him... 23:10:21 tcr: i like iut 23:10:22 it 23:10:24 something involving tequila, crushed ice, and a very warm atmosphere. 23:10:42 ice? on a boat? luxury! 23:11:00 *drewc* does not even have running water, let alone refridgeration 23:11:12 deficient boat! 23:11:18 slyrus: I know that I haven't 23:11:19 deficient needs! 23:12:05 Krystof: ok, if I can remember how to commit things, I'll probably check it in later today 23:12:27 didn't want to step on the new sbcl/darwin development team's toes 23:13:11 Fade: things stay cool enough in the bilges, we do have a water tank but the pump is broken so we don't use it, and there is no room for a freezer on board. The big boat has all these luxuries, but i don't really miss them. 23:13:47 :D 23:13:57 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:14:07 the first boat I did any cruising on didn't even have a stove. we had to light a hibachi. 23:14:22 OTOH, the heads are plugged up right now... that i _do_ miss :P 23:14:29 gack 23:14:49 yeah, not at all looking forward to that repair. 23:15:19 anton [n=Miranda@93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 23:16:09 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:16:12 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:34 hrmn 23:17:17 drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:53 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:17:59 -!- rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:18:03 rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has joined #lisp 23:19:57 unicode [n=user@95.214.78.184] has joined #lisp 23:23:21 -!- francogrex [n=user@135.101-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:12 how expensive is hash access (keys are fixnums) compared to 1d arrays or vectors? 23:27:23 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 23:27:45 timor, benchmark ? 23:28:22 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.79.5] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:29:31 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:49 -!- nowhereman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:02 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.66.140] has joined #lisp 23:33:58 -!- canard [n=canard@chello212017079198.13.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:37 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-29-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:25 timor: that varies with which CL implementation you use, but.. probably relatively expensive 23:39:49 -!- skeptomai [n=cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:05 does anyone here have experience with postmodern? 23:41:26 cools: I do, i'm sure others do was well. Just ask the question and see what pops up. 23:41:45 manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6B5BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:10 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.156] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:42:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:18 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:18 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 23:43:57 i'm just wonder what the approach is to using timestamps. I create a class with a timestamp field, :col-type timestamp, for :initform I use (simple-date:universal-time-to-timestamp (get-universal-time)). Is this the correct method? 23:45:13 The problem i have now is that i can't insert an instance of that class using insert-dao, it gives me an error about not knowing how to convert the simple-date:timestamp to an SQL literal 23:45:17 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:45:41 you don't have the glue code for cl-postgres and simple-date loaded 23:46:55 I load postmodern and simple-data, so I need to load cl-postgres as well? 23:47:11 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f667ab5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:14 potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 23:47:20 loading simple-date before postmodern should do the trick. 23:47:22 Fade: so what are these "other things" that i shoudl confront first? 23:47:25 i think 23:47:29 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 23:47:30 k, i'll test it 23:48:31 cools: i think you can just make sure the :simple-date-postgres-glue system is loaded as well. 23:48:38 (looking at the simple-date.asd) 23:48:43 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:49:10 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-45-214.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 23:50:05 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:50:08 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:50 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:05 -!- krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 23:52:08 Blkt` [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-40.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:52:25 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93409.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:53:29 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.78.184] has quit ["leaving"] 23:54:02 drewc: gonna try it again in a bit, thanks 23:54:41 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6B5BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:55:04 -!- Blkt [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-164.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:55:07 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:57:32 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp