00:00:24 (objc:invoke *synth* "startSpeakingString:" "Happy new year!") 00:00:28 -!- pr_ is now known as pr 00:00:57 lispm: frhoes neues! 00:00:59 *frohes 00:01:17 lispm: the colon is part of the message's name? 00:01:27 yes 00:02:46 jpbarrette annotated #92880 "updated version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92880#1 00:02:49 the computer should talk more often to me 00:03:05 it could list the days tasks in the morning 00:03:22 or remind me at noon of these tasks 00:04:07 So, the complete example tries to create a Python tuple with the function Py_BuildValue with the given arguments 00:04:58 the first call to py-call-form works, but there's missing glue to make the second call valid. 00:05:30 I'm not sure that such glue exists. You're asking for a value that will only be known at runtime, to be known at macroexpansion time. 00:08:02 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:28 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:08:50 if you know that the parameters are constant values, then you can compute at macro expand time 00:09:07 otherwise you need to generate code that does the computation at call time 00:09:41 if you think that *test-args* should be know, you can evaluate the variable 00:10:07 I guess if the value is bound at macroexpansion time, you could cheat a bit by doing (py-call-form ("Py_BuildValue" :pointer) . #.*test-args*) 00:10:08 plage [n=user@117.3.4.61] has joined #lisp 00:10:12 Good morning! 00:10:18 but for anything that is a variable that only has a runtime value, it won't work 00:10:24 [and a happy new year to all of you] 00:10:25 good morning plage 00:11:02 -!- davazp` [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:11:46 Adlai: I guess even that might not work, if you compile the file, the variable is unbound 00:12:09 lispm, right, this is why I said "if the value is bound at macroexpansion time" 00:12:21 right 00:13:08 chào bui sáng plage 00:13:26 we need a form (future ...) around the macro call 00:13:31 fe[nl]ix: Hey! Impressive! 00:13:43 fe[nl]ix: Google translate? 00:13:45 it will reexpand the macro at runtime 00:14:02 lispm, (eval (macroexpand ... 00:14:11 *Adlai* winces 00:14:15 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:14:19 Win CE? 00:14:36 plage: http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/gmorning.htm 00:14:48 *Adlai* shudders 00:14:52 Adlai: I can feel your pain 00:15:35 Anybody know of a VCS repository for ltk, or is it tarballs only? 00:16:29 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:40 starseeker_, clbuild knows of one. 00:17:02 *starseeker_* checks clbuild - thanks Adlai 00:17:23 http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/mirror/ltk/ 00:17:34 you're welcome 00:21:54 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:23:04 antoni [n=user@170.Red-79-158-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:08 -!- rme [rme@clozure-EE0CED86.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:25:08 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:26:02 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:26 slyrus [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 00:33:35 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:37:47 -!- dandersen is now known as dkcl 00:37:59 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 00:38:08 -!- cephalopod [i=42a1d3ae@gateway/web/freenode/x-asiovylnfqmyakjy] has left #lisp 00:38:19 cephalopod [i=42a1d3ae@gateway/web/freenode/x-asiovylnfqmyakjy] has joined #lisp 00:45:40 fe[nl]ix: Nice one! 00:46:00 wubbster [n=wubb@75.108.251.102] has joined #lisp 00:46:09 hi hi 00:47:50 hello wubbster 00:47:53 path of least resistance for making my example a 10-liner seems like writing a small .c file, linking in a .so, calling from lisp 00:47:55 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-47-122.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:49:03 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:49:21 wubbster: How is learning lisp coming? 00:49:24 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["restart"] 00:50:19 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-380820.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:11 i started a while ago but never had the time to focus and such, now im starting up again :D 00:53:16 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:53:46 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 ejs [n=eugen@109-167-3-27.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 proq` [n=user@71-20-201-84.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:27 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:56:51 -!- rme [rme@clozure-EE0CED86.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:56:51 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:57:19 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 00:58:35 -!- antoni [n=user@170.Red-79-158-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:59:18 plage: /query 01:01:37 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 01:03:02 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:07 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:22 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:05:03 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 01:05:41 how many implementations have defglobal-like constructs? I know SBCL and CCL both support them. 01:08:31 and it looks like CLISP does as well, simply through setq. 01:19:23 sykopomp: and every other via define-symbol-macro. 01:19:41 pkhuong: yeah :\ 01:20:08 I was more asking about which implementations the define-symbol-macro hack wouldn't be necessary for. 01:20:27 The symbol macro "hack" has advantages over sb-ext:defglobal. 01:20:42 such as? 01:21:25 less indirection, especially if you want a defconstant-alike. 01:21:45 Allows you to lexically rebind the variable, so closer to a lexical global. 01:21:54 hmm 01:23:30 hello 01:23:33 anyone knows a nice git-based (free) project hosting site? 01:23:39 that does, indeed sound better. 01:23:46 araujo: github 01:23:49 also, it supports typed values better. 01:24:01 araujo: gitorious is also apparently good 01:24:09 common-lisp.net supports git as well, fwiw. 01:24:15 sykopomp, ok, let's see 01:24:20 don't know what the status of repo.or.cz is, and cl.net also does support git. 01:24:25 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:24:30 drewc: (sorry! :P) 01:24:31 repo.or.cz is fine, but sometimes slow/down. 01:24:54 same for github, although it's been much better since they moved servers 01:25:04 sykopomp: every user at github is less work for me, really :P 01:25:35 <_3b> yeah, more CL on github is good, we need to stay ahead of clojure :p 01:25:43 indeed 01:25:49 _3b: we're also ahead of scheme. 01:25:59 <_3b> right, scheme used to be ahead of clojure though 01:26:11 no way. clojure beat scheme? 01:26:15 when did this happen? 01:26:24 <_3b> some time in last few months 01:28:28 <_3b> elisp is up 2 spots since last time i checked though, 13->11 01:28:55 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:28:56 pkhuong: is there a particular way of pulling off the symbol-macro thing that's better than others? I've seen one that does a defvar first, for example... 01:29:01 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:17 araujo: gitorious.org 01:29:54 fe[nl]ix, will check, thanks :] 01:30:10 sykopomp: I do defvar and load-time-value. 01:30:11 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.156.187.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:30:54 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 01:31:11 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:21 pkhuong: but you have to mangle the name for the defvar, right? 01:31:50 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:50 sykopomp: meh. No, I'd rather not mangle it too much and let the user handle any collision. 01:32:48 Call it something that's unlikely to conflict, e.g. *special-variable-for-global-...*. 01:33:06 drewc: why is that ? 01:34:08 sykopomp, you could pull a Kenny Tilton and just prefix a #\^ 01:34:49 It's bound to leak, might as well leak respectfully but usefully. 01:35:13 hm. You could define a separate package, too? 01:35:30 and dump identically-named dynamic vars into that package? 01:35:55 sykopomp: sure. Not quite identical. You have to pull the symbol's package in the name 01:36:05 what happens to FOO:BAR and BAZ::BAR? 01:36:09 and then you get issues when symbols are uninterned and interned. 01:36:14 It will leak. 01:36:26 CCL does this with setf function names, and it works somehow. 01:36:57 generating a closure is too heavy as well, right? 01:37:13 (actually, I'm not sure it would even work) 01:37:19 And even if it didn't leak, I'd rather have something simple that is unlikely to be an issue and easy to work around otherwise. 01:37:56 You could use the symbol's plist. That too leaks. 01:41:29 -!- plage [n=user@117.3.4.61] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:09 pkhuong: it doesn't sound like there's a really good way to automate this :\ 01:45:10 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:26 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.77] has joined #lisp 01:53:28 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 01:53:57 -!- dkcl is now known as dandersen 01:56:23 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 01:59:01 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 02:05:43 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229143174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 02:07:21 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.182.14] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:07:28 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.182.14] has joined #lisp 02:08:56 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:16:34 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has left #lisp 02:17:27 -!- cephalopod 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[n=andreas@krlh-5f737a54.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:19:44 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:23:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@109-167-3-27.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:23:41 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:27:47 <_3b> is there some way to get the base type from a cffi enum type? 03:29:04 -!- blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:29:21 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:29:26 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 03:30:33 -!- rme [rme@clozure-EE0CED86.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:30:33 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:31:33 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d816469.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:57 -!- wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d81890f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:35:10 saikatc_ [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:04 you can get the types size but i suppose that's not quite specific enough 03:37:31 cephalopod [i=42a1d3ae@gateway/web/freenode/x-xsgbnbvwremziift] has joined #lisp 03:41:23 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:44:45 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 03:44:47 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:01 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:48:15 -!- proq` [n=user@71-20-201-84.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:05 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:05 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 03:51:02 -!- Guthur 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quit ["Leaving."] 04:23:14 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 04:23:59 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 04:27:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:27:47 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.197.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:14 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:25 -!- lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-229-231.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:38 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:40:51 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.3.186] has joined #lisp 04:43:47 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:43:53 ben_m [n=ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 04:44:22 ... can someone explain the reader macro in the topic please? :D 04:45:18 ben_m: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 04:45:31 ben_m: Great tutorial, and your question is answered there. 04:45:31 clhs ## 04:45:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhp.htm 04:45:48 ben_m, the link from specbot is the specification of that readmacro. 04:46:06 Thanks :) 04:46:14 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:01 dandersen: Would you recommend that tutorial over Practical Common Lisp? 04:47:41 ben_m: If you're new to programming altogether, yes. 04:47:46 Not really. 04:47:57 Well, it might be worth reading after PCL then. 04:48:14 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 04:55:06 -!- Mezner [n=Mezner@c-24-99-183-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:00:23 Happy New Year 05:04:30 -!- drwhat [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:04:49 Happy new year =] 05:05:01 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 y3llow_ [n=y3llow@118-160-166-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:44 happy new year 05:08:53 -!- y3llow_ [n=y3llow@118-160-166-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:51 nineteen [n=nineteen@118-160-166-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:51 -!- nineteen [n=nineteen@118-160-166-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:53 -!- ben_m [n=ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["good night!"] 05:12:12 -!- wubbster [n=wubb@75.108.251.102] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:42 happy new year 05:18:49 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 05:20:41 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:25:28 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:57 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:30:33 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.182.14] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:30:40 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.149.228] has joined #lisp 05:30:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 05:32:44 http://omploader.org/vMzRvZw \o/ 05:32:54 *sykopomp* is VERY EXCITE. 05:39:32 happy new year #lisp 05:40:47 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:41:25 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-18-68.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:18 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 05:44:08 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:47:52 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 05:49:52 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:54:48 -!- rme [rme@clozure-EE0CED86.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:54:48 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:57:04 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:33 <_3b> sykopomp: you should load up postmodern or clsql in it and make a 'query while you query' image macro :p 05:58:01 _3b: :D 05:59:34 _3b: I'll have to do that as soon as I patch some stuff up and get a swank connection going :) 06:00:13 nice name ;) 06:00:45 <_3b> hmm, sounda like newyears 06:02:44 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-8248.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:06:27 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev80t.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 06:07:20 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:07:21 happy new decade, btw. 06:07:46 r00t_ [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has joined #lisp 06:07:59 -!- r00t_ [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:08:10 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 06:11:39 -!- 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[n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:21:34 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-67-109-95.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:36 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:26:16 -!- cephalopod [i=42a1d3ae@gateway/web/freenode/x-xsgbnbvwremziift] has left #lisp 08:33:03 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 08:38:13 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:41:16 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:43:07 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:44:41 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 08:44:57 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:45:18 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:55:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:55:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:51 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 09:04:54 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:25 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 09:12:30 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.156.187.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:17:47 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:18:39 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.156.187.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:20:37 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 09:20:59 I am STUNNED with the quality of Hunchentoot and its docs. Where does he get the time/inclination to write these libraries? 09:21:28 in a Cafe in Hamburg 09:23:24 -!- uranther [n=James@74-129-98-120.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:03 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:30:29 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.77] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:37:19 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:38:04 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:38:10 Moin moin! 09:39:50 -!- jpbarrette [n=jpbarret@modemcable098.216-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 09:40:01 merl15 [n=merl@80-121-0-54.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:42:00 -!- lispm [n=joswig@f054053143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:46:07 good morning. And happy new year! 09:47:23 lispm [n=joswig@e177156050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:05 Axius [n=ade@92.84.30.236] has joined #lisp 09:58:45 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.30.236] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:00:55 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:03:28 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:04:28 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:26 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-142-250.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:41 -!- cmm [n=cmm@109.64.105.213] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:30:34 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:36:34 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:12 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50:16 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:54:00 -!- hoeq [n=hoeq@213-65-76-219-no91.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:03:04 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 11:09:24 Morning all, and happy New Year all as well. 11:09:45 plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.197.192] has joined #lisp 11:17:32 mihk [n=mihk@xdsl-78-35-159-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:50 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.156.187.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:19:44 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Success] 11:23:00 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:45 Joreji [n=thomas@40-233.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:41:32 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@40-233.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:42:11 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:42:32 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:48:15 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-127-153.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:02:19 brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:31 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:04:06 Joreji [n=thomas@40-233.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:20:09 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:20:13 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:29:45 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:30:28 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-173-095-174-230.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:33:52 fiveop [n=fiveop@e179124152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:11 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:42:26 amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44:46 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@40-233.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["leaving"] 12:45:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:02 Happy new year BiranB04! 12:47:01 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:58 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:50:03 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:38 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:53:59 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:54:08 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:23 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:55:37 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:35 pr [n=pr@p579CA9C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:00 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:57:04 Buganini_ [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 12:57:25 http://omploader.org/vMzRvZw \o/ <-- what's that? 12:58:04 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:02 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:41 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:57 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:11 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-127.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:41 I don't suppose there's a portable pathname to represent $HOME? 13:05:03 -!- hjpark [n=user@61.98.73.4] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:07:03 no, but would user-homedir-pathname work? 13:07:23 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:27 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:07:37 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 13:08:09 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:08:23 jsnell: yes, is it standard? 13:08:36 I was looking at the pathnames dictionary and didn't see it 13:08:43 *filenames 13:09:35 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-38-230.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:10:57 jsnell: that works fine, thanks 13:10:57 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13:09 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.84] has joined #lisp 13:13:57 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:16:26 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-236.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:16:57 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:17:30 happy new year! 13:21:25 alpheus [n=user@c-98-215-226-98.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:25 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:23:34 c|mell [n=cmell@203-144-180-65.static.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:33:02 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 13:34:29 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:30 -!- norayr [n=noch@81.16.7.146] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:07 norayr [n=noch@81.16.7.146] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.169.123] has joined #lisp 13:46:38 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.84] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:49 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@203-144-180-65.static.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:38 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7DE6.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:27 benny [n=benny@i577A7DE6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:04 c|mell [n=cmell@203-144-180-65.static.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev80t.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:55 Wow, I think I'm falling in love with llisp. 14:01:41 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-127.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:03:38 I cant blame you 14:10:23 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.215.111] has joined #lisp 14:12:59 Axius [n=ade@92.84.29.84] has joined #lisp 14:13:55 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:17 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:21:44 HaskellLove [n=chatzill@92.55.82.247] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 I am reading this book: Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming, if anyone has read it please pm me, we can have talk on interesting issues 14:23:00 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 14:25:29 Although now I am hitting car and cdr, as well as cons...which is semi-confusing. 14:25:34 -!- stattrav_lab [n=stattrav@210.212.55.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:25:50 You might want to start with first and rest. 14:26:01 ?? it's pretty simple (car (cons x y)) = x, (cdr (cons x y)) = y 14:27:28 Zhivago: I have been through first and rest already (Watching the Allegro CL certification videos). 14:27:52 *blink* certification!? 14:27:53 soupdragon: It becomes confusing when you are used to something like (x:xs) 14:28:00 no it doesn't 14:28:10 just write cons x xs instead of (x:xs) 14:28:35 Krystof: Franz has certifications in Allegro CL, but they make them available freely as well. 14:29:34 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-81-5.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:30:20 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@203-144-180-65.static.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:30:30 are you given a Certificate in Lisp Application Programming? :-) 14:31:34 Krystof: I thinks it a certification in using Allegro CL itself, meaning the IDE / libraries in ACL 14:31:39 brian: first and rest are the same as car and cdr. 14:33:03 All I know is they charge over 1500 bucks per level for useless paper 14:33:18 I was trying to come up with an amusing acronym, yes 14:38:32 tori [n=ade@92.84.4.101] has joined #lisp 14:39:21 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 14:40:13 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:42:25 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.29.84] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:43:05 I do have a question though: Can you overload a function in lisp? 14:43:18 BrianB04 it's not a very good question 14:43:47 Meaning can you have multiple versions of one function. So one takes parameter a, one takes parameters a b, etc 14:43:49 there's procedures that you define with DEFUN, and there's object oriented methods you can define with DEFMETHOD 14:45:29 but even if neither of these existed, you could still do it 14:45:31 BrianB04: even with generic functions, dispatching on the number of arguments isn't supported with CL. you can have optional arguments (or keyword arguments) and change your function's behavior based on their presence, though 14:45:50 lichtblau [n=user@pD954305E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:52 (and, in general, even if there is no existing construct of what you need, you usually can make em yourself. :) 14:46:14 hypno: Yes, with the wonderful macros 14:47:41 -!- nareshov [n=nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has left #lisp 14:48:45 -!- tori [n=ade@92.84.4.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:50:56 Axius [n=ade@92.84.4.101] has joined #lisp 14:52:33 -!- partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:01 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.4.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:00:01 easyE [i=[c+gHQQW@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:47 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:05:00 -!- HaskellLove [n=chatzill@92.55.82.247] has left #lisp 15:18:10 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has quit ["so long.."] 15:18:12 eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD954305E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:21:03 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:22 madsy [n=madsy@195.204.229.160] has joined #lisp 15:32:00 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.169.123] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:37:10 trittweiler [n=rittweil@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:01 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:20 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 15:43:54 bipt [i=bpt@cpe-173-095-174-230.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:38 so anything new and exciting, in 2010? :-) 15:47:03 so far about as shitty as 2009. ;) 15:48:56 A lot, personally - mostly related to my apartment (= lowering my "hacking threshold"). Feeling very calm, not at all worked up. The outlook for this year looks very good: NexusOne, CES (e-book readers?). Snowboard trip. Then see what I can do to graduate. Good outlooks, indeed. 15:48:56 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:49:13 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-211-99.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:09 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439888.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:00:25 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:03:27 isomer`` [n=isomer@72-254-144-239.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 lichtblau [n=user@pD954305E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:23 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:17 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-8248.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:55 somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:20:00 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.98.83] has joined #lisp 16:21:12 Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:45 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-91.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:25:35 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-81-5.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:28:06 in 2010 I will create the most exciting startup company that europe has ever seen, or have a lot of fun in the attempt :) 16:28:13 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD954305E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:51 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:28:54 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:25 lukego: Good luck with that:) 16:29:46 Maybe in 2010 I will actually remember how to create a variable in lisp. 16:29:46 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@72-254-144-239.client.stsn.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:30:18 lukego, ohh? 16:30:32 *tic* is in europe! 16:30:54 *BrianB04* will move to europe 16:31:10 In 2010 I will reimplement myself. 16:31:27 more as it develops :) 16:31:40 amaron: in yourself, or some stable point like CLISP? 16:33:38 lukego, interesting. 16:33:39 lukego: Yes, I should port myself to Lisp first. 16:40:30 amaron: The big question: What distribution of clisp would you port yourself? Go commercial and port yourself to Allegra, or would you go to JVM and maybe use Clojure? 16:41:43 If you wnted CL on the JVM, it'd be ABCL over Clojure... 16:42:01 clisp is an implementation 16:42:10 that's how i read it 16:42:16 Or you could go really old school and port yourself to emacs. 16:42:20 I think he meant Common Lisp. 16:42:40 that probably makes more sense, hehe 16:42:53 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:16 amaron: sbcl or ccl, I don't like being limited with JVM environment. 16:43:43 The thing that annoys me about clojure is you have to know java to really be able to take advantage of clojure. 16:44:16 ABCL is sweet - however, without save-image it is quite different in role than a dedicated CL system in practice for software deployment. 16:44:53 gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:48 same-image would be nice. ABCL has had some luck with yusing Terracotta to help with an implementation, but how well it works under all circumstances needs to be investigated. 16:46:31 BrianB04: and then add the fact that a lot of clojure code has a java-feel to it: it's writing Java but in Lisp. it's as uggly and boring as interfacing to C libs from CL. 16:46:49 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 16:47:06 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:11 hypno: I noticed that as well. There are a few things in clojure I actually like though, including using brackets for arguments. 16:47:29 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:47:36 see, I need better code, I started to talk to myself. 16:47:49 Qi is another dialect to check out for interesting syntax. 16:48:03 Java gets compared to CL a lot due to its superficial resemblance. All languages involve cutting off some portions of the solution tree to favor others. Maybe Clojure's done a great job of this; but it's a very different language now. Lots of decisions are made at the language level and built in. Design decisions are made around JVM interactions. 16:48:35 The best thing about Clojure is that it (a) isn't CL, and (b) is kind of popular. 16:48:40 BrianB04: I may not have followed it well enough - I see the bracket syntax's consumption as a liability, I assumed it was some performance thing. 16:48:53 (b) gives it momentum and excited noobs writing libraries. 16:49:06 Why do you think that [a b c] is a liability compared with (list a b c)? 16:49:17 The [] syntax has been consumed now. 16:49:31 And (a) means that it escapes the deranged psychopathy of CL. 16:50:13 It's a bit like seeing "foo" as a liability, imho. 16:50:26 deranged psychopathy of CL? 16:50:40 I hate when people use [...] as a synonym for (...) for 'clarity' 16:50:49 mostly it's schemers that are guilty 16:51:24 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:51:44 soupdragon: Yea, some schemes are picking up [], which is where clojure got it from. 16:52:25 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-46.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:52:37 using [...] to mean (list ...) seems fine, it's just stuff like (let [(...)] ...) that's needlessly complicated 16:53:12 Clojure uses [a b c] for vectors, anyhow. 16:55:40 uranther [n=James@74-129-98-120.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:26 it reminds me of people writing the type of a varible into its name, in C 16:57:44 It reminds me of writing "foo" rather than (coerce '(#\f #\o #\o) 'string) 16:59:35 Zhivago sorry I meant the []'s as a synonym for ()'s 16:59:46 using [] for vector is a great idea 16:59:57 Fair enough. 17:02:05 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-247-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:03:19 #()? 17:03:30 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:03:33 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177156050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04:28 ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 One thing I have noticed is that lisp seems very verbose for naming functions. 17:13:17 exu0 [n=u@188.105.119.16] has joined #lisp 17:17:06 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-8248.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:17:20 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-45-183.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:19:31 somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:19:40 merl15_ [n=merl@80-121-48-56.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 BrianB04: if typing speed is your bottleneck, you're lucky... and autocompletion makes that even less of an issue. 17:22:32 pkhuong: I don't mind them really. I have always been fairly verbose in naming things myself, which comes in part from kind of starting in Cobol, and then moving onto Forth, I have gotten used to naming things very descriptively. 17:22:52 -!- merl15 [n=merl@80-121-0-54.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:23:33 use gtk, they love their function names 17:25:17 hehe like function names too, would hate to have to refer to them by an address 17:25:29 like/i like 17:25:47 I think the COBOL syntax is really great 17:27:54 lukego: http://crosstwine.com/ is the startup of damien diederen; had a very nice chat with him after the last munich lisp meeting 17:29:17 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:30:09 soupdragon: Cobol is actually a pretty nice language, and it also made me a ton of money in 99, sadly those days are gone. 17:30:14 -!- konr [n=user@189.96.124.30] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:30:19 :) 17:30:38 Second year of college, pulling 150 an hour...yea...those were good days. 17:31:54 trittweiler: looks cool 17:32:34 Now I'm stuck hunting a frigging job, crappy economy. 17:34:56 lukego: he's having trouble forming a business around it (in particular with the rise of llvm, and the google unloaded swallow efforts..) 17:34:57 trittweiler: is there Lisp underneath? 17:35:05 No it's c++ 17:35:24 trittweiler: who would his customers be? 17:35:43 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-99-157.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:36:40 lukego: that's the question :-) might make sense to try the open source path and getting funding for development (but that role is occupied by llvm), so tough luck I guess 17:37:11 tough to have a solution looking for a problem 17:37:45 Well the problem is there 17:37:51 but the market isn't :-) 17:39:09 I don't think the microbenchmarks really sell the product. I'd prefer to see the total speedup of several well-known python programs (e.g. hg) 17:39:24 hg is written in python? 17:39:31 yes 17:39:50 completely? 17:39:54 Yes. 17:39:59 HG is pure python. 17:40:09 that's cool 17:40:23 Surprising, almost as surprising as darcs being haskell 17:41:09 trittweiler: if he can run rails on his altered ruby system, that might be a nice selling point, too. Might make him as much money as the "ruby enterprise edition" guys 17:41:14 I find it more suprising that there isn't some small lowlevel part in C 17:41:19 (provided that it is faster) 17:41:57 antifuchs: That's it. If a ruby vm can run rails faster than anything out there, that will make huge money since it seems Rails is now the big thing. 17:42:31 depends... There's always the option of buying more hardware. 17:42:54 I myself ponder if I should the next 5 years on Lisp again (to fill Norvig's famous 10years), or move on :-) 17:42:54 pkhuong: for rails, it's far too easy to optimize the runtime (-: 17:42:55 yeah - which seems to be quite a common suggestion the ruby community. 17:43:05 +spend 17:43:20 you can cut common response times by a huge fraction just by swapping out the allocator that the GC uses (-: 17:43:29 According to http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/, a small part of hg is written in C for performance reasons. 17:43:51 yay, rme, for checking facts :-) 17:44:01 ? 17:44:28 antifuchs: could you pull a php and leave some of the GC to the OS? (: 17:46:25 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 17:47:13 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 17:47:15 pkhuong: rails startup is not exactly fast, so if you mean what I think you do, no (: 17:47:53 the REE guys did something clever: keep a process with the environment loaded around, and then fork worker processes from that 17:47:57 rme: how does ccl's xref keep track of the functions->macro dependency, iirc its who-calls reports macros which expand to calls to a certain function? 17:47:59 still takes a while to do 17:48:10 anyway, that's somewhat removed from the channel topic (: 17:49:44 trittweiler: I'm not familiar with that part of of the code. 17:49:59 ok 17:50:35 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:51:02 trittweiler: you might send mail to openmcl-devel 17:52:32 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 17:52:34 I might also read the code ;-) 17:53:17 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:18 btw I think I saw people with "Quviq" as their employer at the last Erlang conference, so John Hughes' Quickcheck company seems to be doing well enough to pay salaries. that is cool 18:02:12 antifuchs: how goes soup.io btw? 18:08:16 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12938.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:50 yvdriess [n=Beef@94-224-246-138.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:09:18 I'm getting a strange fenomenon with sbcl+slime+osx 18:09:39 loading up lispbuilder-sdl in the command line sbcl (or inferior-lisp buffer) works perfectly 18:09:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:09:50 doing it via the slime repl causes it to disconnect 18:10:26 just giving me "Process inferior-lisp trace/BPT trap" in the inferior-lisp buffer 18:10:50 any debug option or something I can use to track down the problem? 18:12:29 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-45-183.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:12:46 Davidbrcz_ [n=david@ANantes-151-1-129-94.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:15:36 -!- Davidbrcz_ [n=david@ANantes-151-1-129-94.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:17:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-99-157.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:18:26 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Client Quit"] 18:19:27 -!- BrianB04 [n=BBommari@c-68-61-113-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:20:28 isomer`` [n=isomer@180-148.175-24.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:14 lukego: it's still alive - I think lukas & christopher made a fair bit of progress since I left, and are able to keep it above water nicely (: 18:24:24 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:24:48 anti: so what do you do nowadays? 18:25:25 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12938.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:29:03 schoppenhauer_ [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 I do clim maintenance, and I joined another viennese rails startup recently. we'll see how that goes (: 18:29:35 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:47 -!- gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 18:29:54 -!- uranther [n=James@74-129-98-120.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:40 I have become such a home body since I moved to Zurich, will come to Vienna for a coffee one day :) 18:30:47 yvdriess: googling trace/BPT makes me think it's some macos + threads problem 18:31:02 yay! 18:31:17 vienna ain't far away for me too 18:31:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:33 so drop me a line when you intend to do so 18:32:45 I sense a mini-lispmeet brewing :) 18:33:11 sweet! 18:33:31 ignotus` [n=ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:33:57 what's a good way to prevent stuff like errors or compiler warnings from getting spit out into stdout? :\ 18:34:19 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-116-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:32 fe[nl]ix: I'm updating cffi's manual, do you have anything for me? 18:34:34 sykopomp: I suspect a perfectly fine answer under unix would be to make stdout be something different :P 18:35:00 hi, is there setpriority support in SBCL? Google returns some results, but I can't find it in sb-posix 18:35:15 p_l: :\ 18:35:52 hypno: btw, there are people who moved to other frameworks from rails because of rails' performance problems... the thing, the main competitor became Rails 3.0 xD 18:36:10 well, specifically, I want to make sure that *standard-output* only receives stuff I explicitly send to it, instead of having warnings dumped into it (or anything else that I wouldn't want to send that way) 18:36:19 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:25 sykopomp: so muffle the warnings? 18:36:45 trittweiler: yeah. I asked in a more general way because I'm not sure what else could be dumped in there. 18:37:02 that 18:37:21 that's true, in fact sbcl has a compiler condition which is not a subtype of error, iirc 18:37:28 ugh 18:37:35 but serious-condition it is :-) 18:38:12 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:38:12 -!- schoppenhauer_ is now known as schoppenhauer 18:39:18 trittweiler: is there any way to just rebind some streams? 18:39:46 sykopomp: sure. 18:40:01 just bind them to some other stream, say the value of (make-broadcast-stream) 18:40:09 clhs *standard-output* 18:40:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_debug_.htm 18:40:20 (and other stream variable names in that chapter) 18:40:20 antifuchs: is there a black hole stream I can rebind *error-output* and family to, though? 18:40:31 hm no that's wrong compiler-error does not inherit from serious-condition 18:40:33 (make-broadcast-stream) gives you that 18:40:38 read what antifuchs said carefully 18:40:58 err, sorry. Thank you :) 18:41:07 it gives you a stream that distributes output to all its composite streams (-: 18:41:44 luis: not at the moment 18:42:44 -!- ignotus` [n=ignotus@catv-80-98-80-157.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 18:43:50 Hm if only there was a true way to continue the signaling process from a handler 18:44:53 (handler-bind ((condition #'(lambda (c) (let ((*standard-output* *error-output*)) (continue-signal c)))) ...) 18:45:55 fe[nl]ix: ok, just checking. I'll go ahead and do it. 18:46:24 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-160-211.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:39 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:44 fe[nl]ix: so, do you think :system, :test and :grovel-wrapper are all the types we need, no need for user-defined types? 18:48:32 no 18:49:16 not unless somebody asks for user-defined types 18:49:23 then we'll think about it 18:49:34 sounds like a plan 18:49:52 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:50:24 -!- yvdriess [n=Beef@94-224-246-138.access.telenet.be] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:50:28 fe[nl]ix: how about that FIXME "re-evaluating DEFINE-FOREIGN-LIBRARY overwrites the current entry breaking FOREIGN-LIBRARY-LOADED-P if already loaded"? 18:51:10 do you think a (when (foreign-library-loaded-p foo) (close-foreign-library foo))) would be an acceptable solution? 18:51:35 I was planning to have a discussion on the ML about this 18:51:57 or we could just save the handle and put it in the new instsance of FOREIGN-LIBRARY 18:51:59 I'm not sure what would the correct semantics be 18:52:52 luis: I think that the OS linker does the former, but I need to investigate 18:53:49 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:09 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 luis: for instance, if I update the wrapper(adding new definitions and changing those already there) and reload it 18:54:53 p_l: heh, i see. 18:54:54 then keeping the old handle is clearly wrong 18:54:57 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:22 luis: let's try (when (foreign-library-loaded-p foo) (close-foreign-library foo))) 18:58:47 hypno: yeah. AFAIK a big part of current developement of Rails is merging it with Merb :D 18:59:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 19:01:51 fe[nl]ix: why is keeping the old handle wrong? 19:02:57 luis: because it would be referring to the old version of the wrapper 19:03:02 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@180-148.175-24.bham.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:03:27 fe[nl]ix: wouldn't the subsequent load-foreign-library load the new version? 19:05:05 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:05:35 right, that would overwrite the handler with the new one 19:06:14 so, perhaps load-foreign-library should take care to unload the previous one 19:07:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:02 let me just do a brief test 19:13:58 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has joined #lisp 19:14:41 happy new year folks! 19:14:56 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 19:17:47 luis: sb-alien::dlopen-or-lose already calls dlclose 19:18:39 fe[nl]ix: but the previous foreign library definition could point to some other library 19:23:06 fe[nl]ix: so I think define-foreign-library should keep the old handle and load-foreign-library should close the handle before getting a new one. 19:23:13 Sounds right? 19:23:19 yes 19:24:03 so I'll implement that. Cool, thanks. 19:26:52 luis: I had already started too :D 19:27:30 Axius [n=ade@92.82.90.247] has joined #lisp 19:27:33 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-91.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:28:32 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-127-153.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 -!- mihk [n=mihk@xdsl-78-35-159-199.netcologne.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:32:03 we can compare patches then :) 19:32:47 clhs 3.2.5 19:32:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_be.htm 19:33:34 I wonder if a strict reading of that section means that compile-file may (exhaustively) signal conditions of type error, or warning (incl. style-warning), only.. 19:34:15 for issues that arise in the compiler itself 19:35:26 tori [n=ade@74.115.0.35] has joined #lisp 19:35:51 On rethought, such reading would be too strict. 19:38:56 trittweiler: what do you mean, "true way"? 19:39:09 (defun continue-signal (c) (signal c) nil) 19:40:00 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.90.247] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:40:10 krystof: this way the handler will decline 19:41:00 and the search for a non-declining handler will go on 19:41:06 (a second time) 19:41:17 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-62-53.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:41:27 -!- tori [n=ade@74.115.0.35] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:41 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:45 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:42:46 konr [n=user@189.0.9.62] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 fe[nl]ix pasted "CFFI foreign-library patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92893 19:43:14 luis: comments ? 19:43:57 Axius [n=ade@92.82.90.247] has joined #lisp 19:44:00 so, what does "continue the signalling process" actually mean? 19:44:50 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.90.247] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:52 oh, I see; you want to influence from inside the effects of handlers outside 19:44:54 it should continue the search for a non-declining handler 19:45:06 for seriously good reasons that's not allowed 19:45:15 such as ? 19:45:17 uhm, like? 19:45:24 luis pasted "for fe[nl]ix" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92894 19:45:30 it makes it impossible to write wrapper conditions 19:46:08 (in the general case) 19:47:10 sykopomp: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss068_w.htm I guess that says that compiler diagnostics should go to error-output, but I can't find such saying in the actual standard. 19:47:41 fe[nl]ix: your versions closes anonymous libraries as well. Is that intended? 19:47:45 *version 19:47:47 yes 19:47:54 better be consistent 19:49:12 luis: (get-foreign-library name) will signal an error the first time register-foreign-library is called 19:49:57 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-247-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:04 oh yeah 19:52:08 -!- rme [rme@clozure-EE0CED86.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 19:52:08 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:54:10 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@adsl-84-227-215-36.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:56:22 I'll export FOREIGN-LIBRARY-NAME 19:57:44 ben_m [n=ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:58:03 I'm not sure if this is the right channel to ask this ... it might be a Slime related problem 19:58:07 I'll just try. 19:58:54 I have a simple file that requires :lispbuilder-sdl. When I try to compile it with C-c C-k I get an error that "SDL is not found". When I compile just the (require ...) with C-C c, and then compile the whole file again, it works. 19:59:09 cephalopod [i=42a1d3ae@gateway/web/freenode/x-zxfpptwqadskjojn] has joined #lisp 19:59:11 that's not related to slime 19:59:20 you should create an asd file for your project 20:00:07 see http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 20:00:10 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-182-213.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:00:23 fe[nl]ix annotated #92894 "combine both patches" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92894#1 20:00:36 What's that #: syntax doing? 20:00:41 adeht: I'll read that, thanks. 20:01:01 #: creates an uninterned symbol 20:02:08 fe[nl]ix: is it only the groveller that sets the pathname slot? 20:03:23 Why does he use uninterned symbols? I don't think he explains that point. 20:03:48 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7DE6.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:03:54 fe[nl]ix: why FILE-NAMESTRING as opposed to NAMESTRING? 20:04:02 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-52.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:32 ben_m: they're just convenient string designators 20:04:57 And he doesn't use regular symbols because of... ? 20:05:11 they are regular symbols 20:05:20 I'm confused. 20:05:29 ben_m: the purpose is to not intern symbols in a package 20:05:35 luis: so that I don't get the full "/home/hechee/.fasls/sbcl-1.0.33.30-linux-x86/work/iolib/src/syscalls/libiolib-syscalls.so" 20:05:51 ben_m: because of historic limitations (or implementation details) of asdf 20:06:09 it doesn't really make much of a difference, but some people feel dirty interning unnecessary symbols :P 20:06:21 Ok, thanks :) 20:06:36 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@adsl-89-217-210-218.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:37 -!- lukego_ is now known as lukego 20:07:22 luis: IMO, for quick eyeballing the file-namestring is enough. 20:07:27 ben_m: related: http://kpreid.livejournal.com/19243.html 20:07:28 fe[nl]ix: oh, right, that makes sense. 20:07:52 benny` [n=benny@i577A1AD6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 fe[nl]ix: is it only the groveller that sets the pathname slot? 20:08:15 -!- somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:08:36 *kpreid* waves 20:08:37 trittweiler: ho! 20:08:46 kpreid: that is good to know! 20:09:26 luis: the groveller doesn't set the pathname slot any more, but uses a search path computed through ASDF 20:09:33 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:09:43 kpreid: is that the case for older versions of asdf? (a year or two old) 20:09:53 fe[nl]ix: so we can remove the pathname slot then? 20:10:03 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:10:08 asdf25 [n=jeff@pool-71-126-157-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:09 kpreid: yeah you should have given some time hint 20:10:22 sykopomp: I don't think asdf has changed in this regard since I first looked at it, which was a few years ago 20:11:07 I wonder how this meme started spreading :P 20:11:49 luis: no, for debugging purposes it's very useful to know what pathname was used to load the library 20:12:01 hi i'm getting an sbcl optimization note that i don't understand... it says "unable to avoid runtime dispatch on array element type" because "The first argument is a (VECTOR DOUBLE-FLOAT), not a SIMPLE-ARRAY.", about calling aref on an array i declared (vector double-float), is there something i can do to make it faster? 20:12:32 fe[nl]ix: but nobody sets it. 20:12:48 fe[nl]ix: it's always NIL, isn't it? 20:13:02 luis: %do-load-foreign-library sets it 20:13:04 asdf25: yes declare it to be of type (simple-array double-float (*)) 20:13:16 asdf25: that is, if that's true. 20:13:20 asdf25: a simple-array is non-adjustable, and not-displaced. 20:13:29 ok thanks 20:13:43 whereas VECTOR includes adjustable arrays 20:14:13 (and displaced arrays) 20:14:20 fe[nl]ix: ah, right you are. 20:14:42 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:15:36 asdf25: and to confuse matters inconceivably, simple-vectors are non-specialized vectors (i.e. they can contain anything) 20:16:49 [actually they're non-specialized, one-dimensional simple-arrays] 20:17:45 There is also some common pitfall related to subtypep which I forgot though :-) 20:19:59 aeter [n=aeter@host-static-87-116-84-9.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:15 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:18 -!- aeter [n=aeter@host-static-87-116-84-9.mreja.net] has left #lisp 20:21:00 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 20:21:40 Ah, right, that (subtypep '(simple-array base-char (*)) '(simple-array character (*))) => NIL on unicode-enabled SBCL 20:21:56 even though (subtypep 'base-char 'character) => T 20:24:31 I wonder if the spec isn't too strict in that case; couldn't the former reasonably be T in SBCL's case where string is utf8 encoded, and base-string ascii? 20:25:29 is there any way to portably get access to a condition's :report function? (or at least the output of said function) 20:25:38 sykopomp: princ-to-string 20:27:25 string is not utf8 encoded 20:27:44 fe[nl]ix annotated #92894 "patch for the manual" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92894#2 20:28:07 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 and no, not if you can (setf (char string 0) ), where for one string type that is allowed and for the other it isn't 20:28:56 luis: what else is missing from the manual ? documenting the accessors ? 20:30:13 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:19 -!- trittweiler [n=rittweil@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:31:46 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev80t.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 20:37:20 fe[nl]ix: yup. But I can do it if you want to do something else. 20:39:29 but feel free :) 20:40:14 luis: I'm off to cook dinner, then 20:42:39 heh, good choice :) 20:45:49 frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:52 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:35 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:50:22 -!- frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:34 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-91.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:41 uranther [n=James@74-129-98-120.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:17 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:11 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:10 chiiph [n=chiiph@190.178.197.77] has joined #lisp 21:03:29 hi everyone... I can't seem to find this, does lisp have a built-in vector type with cross,dot product,etc implemented? 21:03:36 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 21:04:03 chiiph: No. It does not. 21:04:26 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 milanj [n=milan@109.93.9.121] has joined #lisp 21:04:46 austinh: oks... thanks 21:05:35 aerique [n=euqirea@rl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:06:15 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 21:06:56 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:46 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@99.54.133.197] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08:18 chiiph: A few people are working on games, hefner and dto, I think. They might have some suggestions, but I'm not aware of any public libraries. 21:08:34 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-120-172.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:13 dot product is (reduce '+ (map 'list '* v1 v2)), and cross-product is meaningless except in three dimensions 21:09:21 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-036-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:49 I have a little code I could share for 3d vectors and a handful of operations on them, and I think nikodemus released some code recently which is no doubt better and more efficient 21:09:57 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-036-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:10:10 there are several game libraries and it's not hard to write your own 21:10:14 Krystof: it's in 3D... but yes, it's not something that's too hard to implement... 21:10:52 yep... besides, it's a good starting point, since it's been a long time since I've implemented something in lisp :) 21:12:52 -!- merl15_ [n=merl@80-121-48-56.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:09 -!- asdf25 [n=jeff@pool-71-126-157-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:15:07 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 21:15:32 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:22:03 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:27:28 chiiph if you want a full vector matrix lib then check out sb-cga 21:28:14 its kind of sbcl only, but _3b is working on a more portable version 21:30:53 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:31:28 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:53 eric_oconnor [n=eric@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:18 -!- aerique [n=euqirea@rl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 21:45:44 Hello, does anyone have experience with terminal programs using common lisp? 21:48:19 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Client Quit"] 21:51:48 starseeker_ [n=CY@96.234.232.166] has joined #lisp 21:52:28 Is the individual behind http://github.com/froydnj in the channel? 21:53:36 no. When he is, he's under the nick "froydnj" 21:53:44 ah, cool - thanks 21:54:07 Does anyone maintain his "diff" code or is cl-difflib the standard these days? 21:54:14 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-220-18.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 21:54:53 arnee [n=arnee@a89-182-10-28.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 21:55:11 I've used (and probably modified) a copy of his diff code, but I don't think that counts as maintaining it 21:55:22 *starseeker_* nods 21:56:30 isomer`` [n=isomer@180-148.175-24.bham.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:53 francogrex [n=user@81.88-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:02:45 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:05:00 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 22:05:27 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@180-148.175-24.bham.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:06:24 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:06:56 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:07:42 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:51 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:11:08 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:13 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:11:39 Alright, I'm confused here. 22:11:42 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:11:57 When I start a project that uses lispbuilder-sdl, I'll create a file called project.asd 22:12:07 In there I use (asdf:defsystem) 22:12:09 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:17 In project.lisp, what do I write? 22:12:41 your program! 22:12:50 Without any defpackage stuff? 22:12:55 That's what I mean 22:13:06 ben_m: i wrote a little bit about that... 22:13:12 minion: tell ben_m about xach-asdf 22:13:12 ben_m: look at xach-asdf: Xach's article "Making a small Common Lisp project" can be found at http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 22:13:14 Xach: I'm reading that 22:13:15 you can put the defpackage there, or in its own file. usually you do the latter, except for single-file projects. 22:13:16 ben_m: defpackage generally goes in a file by itself unless you have only one .lisp file otherwise, in which case put it at the top 22:13:28 ben_m: excellent 22:13:30 I do have only one lisp file 22:13:36 Xach: I fail to understand that :( 22:13:38 perhaps he is confused about systems versus packages 22:13:42 I probably am. 22:13:43 ben_m: then yes, put defpackage at the top and in-package immediately after 22:13:45 See, the problem was this: 22:13:55 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:14:13 I used a single .lisp file, nothing else. In it I (require :lispbuilder-sdl) and then use it 22:14:22 When I try to compile the file with just C-c C-k it doesn't work 22:14:27 Something about SDL missing ... 22:14:28 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f051034233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:36 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 22:14:43 When I C-c c the (require) first it works afterwards. 22:14:53 I asked why and somebody linked me to your article ... 22:15:38 yes, that's the sort of situation it's meant to avoid 22:16:04 -!- francogrex [n=user@81.88-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:07 I'm lost though :D 22:16:24 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:16:26 that's because you need the 'require' to execute before you can compile the rest of the code, and that isn't what's going to happen unless you explicitly wrap it in (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ..) 22:16:49 ben_m: what part do you find confusing? 22:17:12 I'll pastebin my files, just a second. 22:17:21 I find it confusing that it doesn't work :) 22:18:19 Ok, nevermind. 22:18:24 It was a stupid error. 22:18:43 I had (:file "file.lisp") instead of (:file "file") 22:19:08 Thanks a lot though, guys! Appreciate the help :) 22:19:24 Why do class-prototypes exist? 22:19:25 -!- uranther [n=James@74-129-98-120.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:46 Ooh, another question, I hope you don't mind :) When I use a function that prints to stdout with bordeaux-threads:make-thread, nothing is actually printed. Why is that? 22:24:59 because SLIME hates you. 22:25:12 ben_m: it's printed to the real standard output; look in *inferior-lisp*. 22:25:13 But ... I love it :( 22:25:20 pkhuong: Oh. 22:25:25 swank:*globally-redirect-io* or something? 22:25:43 Otherwise you have to rebind or set *standard-output*. 22:26:18 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:26:19 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:26:23 Set/rebind to what exactly? 22:27:13 -!- erk is now known as BeZerk 22:30:38 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:35:04 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:26 overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:30 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D971.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:40:25 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:43:41 -!- eric_oconnor [n=eric@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:48 ben_m: add (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) to your ~/.swank.lisp, then restart 22:45:00 ben_m: to the value it has in the REPL thread. 22:45:04 Yeah I understood this much 22:45:41 pkhuong: Ah, I understand. Thanks. 22:50:03 lispm [n=joswig@e177150239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:51:01 No I don't, but nevermind. I'll use fe[nl]ix' solution. 22:52:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:53:38 (let ((stream *standard-output*)) (make-process (lambda () (let ((*standard-output* stream)) ..do stuff..)))) 22:54:48 ben_m: when you spawn a thread, it doesn't inherit the special bindings from its parent; you get a fresh (empty) dynamic environment. 22:54:51 Heh, figured that out right before I read that 22:54:59 pkhuong: Yeah I thought I understood that 22:55:11 I had a hard time figuring out how to give it a binding for stdout though 22:55:54 Thanks, again. 22:56:03 slash_ [n=unknown@p5DD1D23F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:22 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 I have to be spoonfed occasionally :/ 22:58:47 -!- rdd` [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:35 hey #lisp 22:59:51 hey Ralith 22:59:56 given the correct declarations, can genfun calls be inlined? 23:00:04 that is 23:00:09 does there exist an impl. which does that? 23:01:12 given that methods can be redefined arbitrarily: no 23:01:47 on the other hand, you can write compiler macros for your own generic functions, if you understand their semantics 23:01:58 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:02:40 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:23 alright, thanks 23:03:57 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 23:07:51 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:11 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:13:30 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 23:14:09 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:14:21 -!- slash_ [n=unknown@p5DD1D23F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:43 davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:53 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 23:23:00 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 23:23:28 pr_ [n=pr@p579CABFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:18 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:28:30 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:29:17 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:29:56 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:30:17 konr` [n=user@200.142.139.80] has joined #lisp 23:31:54 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:33:59 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 23:37:04 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:35 -!- overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:19 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:40:43 -!- pr_ is now known as pr 23:41:01 plage [n=user@203.113.164.206] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 Good morning. 23:42:08 howdy! 23:45:35 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:55 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:46:02 plage: morning 23:46:40 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.9.121] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:51 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:47:53 -!- konr [n=user@189.0.9.62] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:52:36 -!- konr` is now known as konr 23:53:17 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-176-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091215231400]"] 23:57:19 eric_oconnor [n=eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:32 -!- eric_oconnor [n=eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:57:50 eric_oconnor [n=eric@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:18 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 23:59:27 pr [n=pr@p579CABFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp