00:02:03 <_deepfire> Fare, the quick impression is that lispy has got a problem of living in a VCS-less world. 00:02:32 joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:42 <_deepfire> It might be passable for just the packaging layer of a complete solution, but not for a complete one. 00:03:11 yeah, well, usual CL gripe 00:03:22 but who am I to complain, when I'm culprit of the very same 00:04:01 <_deepfire> I have a feeling that all these CL package management efforts need to get together. 00:05:27 <_deepfire> For example, I do nomenclature, distribution and testing, but I don't do release management and packaging. 00:06:14 sounds complementary 00:06:27 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@nttkyo496023.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:29 can you open a mailing-list for that 00:06:43 with a software-neutral name, to not offend anyone 00:06:48 <_deepfire> Release management could come from libCL, and on packaging I don't really have an opinion -- despite desire claiming to be a "package management substrate" it doesn't have "packaging" at all. 00:07:12 <_deepfire> Fare, I need an account on clnet.. 00:07:28 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:16 you do 00:08:36 then there are the SBCL guys who want a SBCL-with-batteries distribution 00:09:59 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:01 what kind of batteries? 00:10:14 i mean that more seriously than it sounds 00:10:16 <_deepfire> nikodemus looked into desire, wanted a short and clear example, which I still need to write. 00:10:37 <_deepfire> Guthur, there's a thread on sbcl-devel 00:10:38 Guthur: as in, libraries for all the usual things you'd like to do 00:10:41 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:11:04 -!- Bucciarati is now known as Buccia`26C3 00:12:09 i'll check sbcl-devel, i was going to say its fine as it is, but if i'm honest there would be couple of nice libs, but its just laziness on my part 00:12:50 and come to think of it, considering sbcl's frequent updates it would probably be a pain in the long run 00:12:55 <_deepfire> Fare, what are the chances of my ASDF:MISSING-CONDITIONS hitting an ASDF release? 00:13:29 Batteries as external libraries are fine. I get concerned when they become too inextricably linked to a language or implementation. The batteries of today may just be the boat anchors of tomorrow. 00:13:41 It's already in my devel repo, isn't it? 00:14:19 caoliver, that's why we want these batteries to be delivered as part of a general plan for distribution of CL software 00:14:38 I think that my plan for ASDF / XCVB configurability also comes just on time for that 00:21:28 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 00:21:43 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:05 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:22:30 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:18 clhs #+ 00:26:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 00:26:38 would be nice if you could private msg specbot, like minion 00:26:56 sometimes, topo's experimental approach pays off. 00:27:01 in other words: you can. 00:27:08 oh 00:28:22 i did try but it didn't seem to work; /msg clhs #+ and /msg specbot #+ 00:29:18 _deepfire, I'll try to do a new release before the end of year 00:29:34 if possibly with some ASDF configuration enhancements 00:29:55 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 <_deepfire> Fare, sounds nice! 00:31:56 -!- insaneavocado [n=user@adsl-99-41-224-114.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:31:58 <_deepfire> weird, works for me 00:32:16 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.161.137] has joined #lisp 00:32:29 my dad died yesterday 00:33:13 was he killed by a sexp? 00:33:36 maybe, dunno 00:33:41 topo: Sorry to hear that. 00:33:48 no problem its ok 00:34:30 I remember, all to well, the death of my father. Please accept my condolences. 00:35:04 hahaha 00:35:17 caoliver, i didn't know your father 00:35:25 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:35:32 thanks 00:36:01 ye 00:36:03 vy 00:36:03 and i will never know him 00:36:07 bye 00:36:12 -!- topo [n=topo@190.232.44.127] has left #lisp 00:36:37 Sad and at the same time bizarre. 00:37:41 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.200.242] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:38:21 OK, back on topic. 00:39:15 I am running StumpWM on CCL now, and it uses less memory and starts up faster and yay. 00:39:46 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BBE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:41:15 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:44:20 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has quit ["leaving"] 00:45:23 Adlai: congrats 00:46:05 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:48:10 Dawgmatix [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:16 <_deepfire> Heh, I wonder if playing an in-joke like "lisp-boxing" might be more preferable to "lisp-packaging", as the list name. 00:50:53 davazp [n=user@197.Red-88-8-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:56:30 <_deepfire> Sadly, boxing has this somewhat violent sport connotation. 00:58:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@ool-4573e02f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:45 CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.14.25] has joined #lisp 01:06:38 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:06:59 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:23 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:34 *nyef* boxes some integers. 01:11:08 krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:14:24 JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:47 So, it just occurred to me: It's BOXING day tomorrow. Let's celebrate the association of type-tags and possible heap storage with integers! 01:18:05 -!- krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 01:18:11 hopefully with bare-knuckle boxing matches 01:20:20 nyef: you still doing the fixnum hacking? 01:21:10 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:09 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:42 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:28 is it ok to use *features* and #+ #- as a compile time directive for your app 01:27:38 specifically a debug mode 01:27:56 or is there a better solution 01:29:53 oh wait it wont work because i can set the *feature* before compile 01:29:57 can't 01:30:29 <_deepfire> Why not? 01:31:26 _deepfire: how, the only thing i can think of is compiler macros 01:31:35 are they even soon enough 01:31:35 joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:18 oh wait i think i know now 01:33:02 Guthur: what are you trying to set 01:33:03 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:33:20 just a flag to say its going to be a debug compile 01:33:22 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.14.25] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:33:54 then have a release compile 01:34:48 just a quick way to turn printing app state stuff to the repl on and off 01:35:05 trace-output? 01:35:30 erm, more like debug-io 01:36:26 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B2710.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:47 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:36:50 ya probably a bit more detailed than a trace 01:37:42 it's also easy to have an IN-BUILD macro.. (in-build :debug (do-this) (do-that)) 01:37:54 -!- plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39:01 -!- joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@ool-4573e02f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:14 adeht umm that sounds like it might be better approach, i have a bad feeling about messing with *features* for something like this 01:39:36 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:42 I would like to find an example lisp program where you would actually store code as a sexpr, for example in a database, and then interpret it later. 01:41:25 rvirding: common cold? 01:41:40 pkhuong: ? 01:41:53 don't get you 01:43:02 Just that in lisp it is actually relatively easy to construct code on the fly, compared to most other languages. 01:43:08 jordy [n=jordy@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:09 rvirding, it's a library that pkhuong wrote 01:43:17 Aha 01:44:30 <_deepfire> p_l, do you personally see any value in a get-together for all lisp packaging efforts? 01:44:31 -!- jordy [n=jordy@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:44:34 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:23 rvirding: I had an idea about i18n support doing something like that 01:45:46 <_deepfire> p_l, that is, unifying packaging, transport, nomenclature, upstream tracking, testing 01:46:30 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:46:52 rvirding: it sends closures as a builder function and the closed over values the closed over values. 01:47:16 It should be a relatively short and self contained 01:47:29 (as text) 01:47:55 I was wondering about lexical scope issues. 01:48:17 I want to put it in my examples for LFE (lisp flavoured examples) as a cool thing you can do which is more difficult in other languages, including erlang. 01:48:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-34-14.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:49:16 lfe is of course lisp flavoured erlang 01:50:27 I gather you're still actively developing that? 01:50:31 <_deepfire> I wonder if the f-word is a noun there :-) 01:50:49 <_deepfire> er, not noun 01:50:52 <_deepfire> verb 01:50:57 caoliver: yes, very much so. Most of it works now. :-) 01:51:31 Cool. The more s-expr speaking things there are, the more stuff I can glue together. 01:51:54 Hello pkhuong. 01:52:37 caoliver: my idea for handling data would be to define some input variables to the code and when the code is to be run wrap it in a let giving the current values to use. 01:53:44 I figured out what that alpha case in !define-sap-fixer was for. 01:54:04 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:54:22 My problem is to show why it is better than vanilla erlang, not everyone understands the power of macros. 01:54:22 davazp` [n=user@197.Red-88-8-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:41 Still haven't finished integrating the array changes, though, and haven't touched the modfx stuff. 01:54:44 nyef: I figured it was just a performance hack because it sucked at loading constants in. 01:55:23 Nope. It's because word-logical-andc2 is defined in terms of n-word-bits, not n-machine-word-bits, so it has to happen on all of the platforms where they differ. 01:55:34 oh right. 01:56:03 I'm half-tempted to rewrite the entire thing in terms of an explicit test with #.` 01:56:37 (Has to be the most viciously useful general reader hack I've seen, really.) 01:56:54 <_deepfire> rvirding, btw, do you know about liskell? 01:57:19 _deepfire: big one. As well as taking over lisp.org from ALU 01:57:24 rvirding: I think there are a number of folk for whom that will always be a tough sell: parenthephobics for instance. 01:57:48 _deepfire: I know a little about, it attempts to do the same thing with haskell. Haven't heard much lately though. 01:57:55 back to the christmas dinner. 01:58:10 Enjoy! 01:58:12 Buon apetito. 01:58:21 (or something like that) 01:58:23 caoliver: Yes, I know, that is why I need some good examples, understandable ones. 01:58:37 <_deepfire> p_l, I plan to set up a clnet mailing list for this get-together 01:58:38 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:44 joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:47 <_deepfire> p_l, also, have you seen lispy? 01:58:48 pkhuong: have a nice dinner 01:59:30 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00:27 lispy? nope 02:00:44 Where is "common cold?" 02:00:48 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:01:21 <_deepfire> p_l, it's a clnet project, also covered on the planet 02:01:45 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:02:53 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:40 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:05:46 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:05:54 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.161.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:08:08 -!- davazp [n=user@197.Red-88-8-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:55 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.161.137] has joined #lisp 02:12:10 lacedaemon [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-104-51.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:13:47 Of course, the ultimate test of all this fixnum-width hacking is going to be 62-bit fixnums. >:-) 02:15:04 -!- Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-52-237.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:13 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:42 Vonunov [n=jack@99.58.1.192] has joined #lisp 02:19:33 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.44] has joined #lisp 02:21:37 adeht: the macro idea seems to be a decent enough solution, cheers 02:24:14 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.240] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:14 Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-54-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:42 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-107-248.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:53 <_deepfire> Hmm, no lichtblau emails in my inbox, weird. 02:36:19 <_deepfire> Is it ethical to have a bunch of people and mailing lists in To: ? 02:40:23 That depends on the society that you live in. 02:42:20 <_deepfire> Zhivago, simply put, I want to create a new mailing list for a topic which doesn't generally exist yet, and I need to invite the potential participants. How should I go about that? 02:42:36 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:41 I would invite them individually. 02:42:52 You should be able to automate that process. 02:43:10 bcc? 02:43:33 <_deepfire> Good idea! 02:43:43 <_deepfire> thanks! 02:43:58 <_deepfire> Whom do I put in To? 02:44:07 I think I'm about to get a clean sweep on contribs. 02:44:12 Leave it blank? 02:44:24 a lot of spam filters will reject mail with no To: 02:44:30 Hunh. 02:44:37 That's a little nasty. 02:44:40 lists generally have a to set to the list submission address 02:44:52 very nasty, but so's the level of incoming spam. 02:45:35 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:46:33 <_deepfire> What if I put all lists into To and individuals into Bcc? 02:46:54 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715083437]"] 02:48:15 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.20] has joined #lisp 02:48:40 then reply-all people might crosspost, which is generally undesirable. 02:48:48 <_deepfire> Right.. 02:50:18 <_deepfire> Ok, asdf-devel in To, rest of the lists and individuals to Bcc 02:52:02 You could send it to yourself and the rest in bcc :) 02:52:26 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@ool-4573e02f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:18 <_deepfire> Zhivago, I think a list in To has an advantage of archival.. 02:56:00 As opposed to bcc where they don't get archived? 02:56:29 <_deepfire> Zhivago, the replies won't be, no? 02:56:42 Why wouldn't they? 02:56:53 bcc doesn't mean "please hide the replies to this". 02:57:07 <_deepfire> Well, I mean a public archive. 02:57:17 Well, you can bcc those, too. :) 02:57:38 If you just have one list, then to: makes sense. 02:58:27 <_deepfire> But what will people reply to? They'll get a mail with a non-list address in To:, reply to that and poof -- no trace, or am I getting it wrong? 02:58:51 Generally people reply to the 'from' bit. 02:59:24 <_deepfire> Which is going to be my address, as the proposed umbrella list doesn't exist yet.. 02:59:35 <_deepfire> So no archival. 02:59:57 Well, perhaps what you really want is to set up a list which can then send the spam, bcc'd, to everyone? 03:01:07 Isn't there a reply-to field? 03:01:08 <_deepfire> Hmm, you mean subscribing people to a list before they get a chance of approving or disapproving it? 03:01:08 -!- sellout [n=greg@pool-71-123-34-153.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:02:03 <_deepfire> Oh, I see what you mean.. 03:03:16 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-251.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:03:18 <_deepfire> But this is the same as with To:ing asdf-devel, just relieving the latter of the burden of not-quite-precisely-on-topic-but-also-not-quite-offtopic messages. 03:04:51 <_deepfire> I can barely think, I must go sleep. 03:09:42 shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.61.97] has joined #lisp 03:10:33 -!- davazp` [n=user@197.Red-88-8-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:11:31 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:02 davazp` [n=user@30.Red-88-1-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:01 <_deepfire> I wonder if I should bother the folks from clornucopia and lispwire.. 03:17:58 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:18:50 eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 03:23:42 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:43 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:29 jinok [n=jason@ip72-192-77-18.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:38 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:42 -!- jinok [n=jason@ip72-192-77-18.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:26:53 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:11 wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d816100.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:31 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d81a47f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:39:32 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 03:43:21 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:44:38 _deepfire: you know ... I was wondering, what if instead of several different packaging systems merging into one, just specify a common interchange system... 03:44:56 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:46:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 03:46:35 -!- JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 03:46:55 hi lisp 03:49:33 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-19-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:50:01 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:11 <_deepfire> p_l, this can and should be discussed, definitely 03:53:32 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-56-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:54:16 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:02 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:56:31 <_deepfire> p_l, the thing is, the problem space isn't just packaging 03:56:44 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 03:57:20 dys` [n=andreas@krlh-5f734589.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:32 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:58:00 -!- davazp` [n=user@30.Red-88-1-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:58:15 <_deepfire> There are many other components -- ontology, distribution, upstream integration, delivery mechanism.. 03:58:35 <_deepfire> You cannot implement just a packaging system and call it a day. 04:00:18 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 04:00:33 *nyef* calls it a day. 04:00:37 G'night all. 04:00:39 plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has joined #lisp 04:00:44 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["See? Calling it a day."] 04:00:45 <_deepfire> Yeah, metoo, really. 04:01:15 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:02:33 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:03:45 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:04:32 <_deepfire> p_l, in all honesty, we're either working together, or we are doomed to have a bunch of competing, half-solutions. 04:05:30 <_deepfire> And nothing of that will even scratch the surface of what ex-DEC folks opensourced in 2001 (Vesta) and what Nix folks are doing in C++ today. 04:05:52 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:06:07 What problem is this? 04:06:42 Ah, packaging. 04:08:03 redblue [i=star@ppp078.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:09:42 -!- dys 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quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:58:21 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:10:33 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:12 nybbles [n=nybbles@CPE000ae6ad1ea9-CM00169240d79c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:26 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.142.226] has joined #lisp 07:31:01 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has joined #lisp 07:36:11 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.44] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:38:41 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has joined #lisp 07:40:39 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:44:13 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-18-149.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:44:58 plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has joined #lisp 07:45:04 Good afternoon! 07:48:12 o/ 07:49:28 manuel_ [n=manuel@130-142.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:00 nareshov: Did you manage to get your Lisp environment set up properly? 07:58:23 no, not yet. i'll do it soon. 08:02:11 what's hard with setting up a lisp env? 08:04:21 snearch_ [n=olaf@e179141197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:27 setting up without using the debian packages 08:04:34 as it was suggested a few weeks ago 08:10:07 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@e179141197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:15:11 nareshov: Did I suggest back then that you use clbuild? 08:15:25 minion: please tell nareshov about clbuild. 08:15:25 nareshov: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 08:15:36 o 08:16:02 *nareshov* notes it down 08:18:31 *sykopomp* has been looking at http://common-lisp.net/project/lispy 08:20:56 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:25 sykopomp: What is your impression? 08:32:30 plage: mostly incomplete. To be honest, I get excited when anything along these lines comes along. 08:33:05 Everything looked very exciting at first -- but it looks like it's not really anything more than an asdf-install. Right down to the GPG validation. 08:33:52 arguably less convenient, because if you're going to shove GPG down everyone's throat, you may as well take advantage of that (by making releases easier) 08:41:01 there needs to be something much more complete and DWIM if we're gonna have decent, newbie-friendly lib distribution :\ 08:43:24 sykopomp: Were you the one suggesting p_l collaborate with this effort? 08:44:01 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:44:10 I think I may have discussed it with p_l, but I'm not sure if I went so far as to suggest he collaborate... 08:44:11 __mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 08:44:33 although I'll be the first to cheer anyone on with any sort of attempt :) 08:46:06 that said, I do think lispy is still worth noting. The code is simple and apparently pretty flexible -- I think it can grow into something very solid. 08:46:27 asdf is always going to be a wart for library distribution, though :\ 08:50:43 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@adsl-89-217-249-68.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:51:08 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-129-177.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:54:20 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:55:31 c|mell [n=cmell@115.67.175.177] has joined #lisp 08:55:45 which background colors to choose to distinguish bad and good? light red and light blue? 08:57:10 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@adsl-89-217-222-16.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:11 -!- lukego_ is now known as lukego 08:57:23 sykopomp, we can make asdf better (I hope) 08:58:04 Fare: I'm just generally whiny about how people seem to have trouble with it on windows :\ 08:58:20 sure -- and that can be fixed, too 08:59:18 then great :) 08:59:48 how best to do it is a question, but oh well. 09:00:42 one of these days, I'll actually put my money where my mouth is and write the damn distribution system I think should exist :P 09:01:36 sykopomp, please join forces with desire, libcl, clbuild, etc., where useful 09:01:47 desire? 09:02:18 see, I haven't tried to do my own thing because it seems like there's been an explosion of these things recently (even asdf-install seems to be getting love) 09:02:22 google lisp desire 09:02:36 clbuild I already detest clbuild and everything it stands for, though :P 09:02:49 as usual, explosion means more different incomplete ways to do things 09:02:56 yup 09:02:59 what's wrong about clbuild? 09:03:13 I mean, for all its warts, it's one of the best things available right now 09:03:15 i don't see why people can't just contribute to asdf 09:03:22 holycow, why don't you? 09:03:25 it works and like anything requires more 'works' 09:03:29 holycow: asdf is not a library distribution system. 09:03:32 because i'm not complaining :) 09:03:59 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.129.192] has joined #lisp 09:04:13 sykopomp, not givin you a hard time. what do you mean by library distribution system? how is asdf not this? 09:04:37 Fare: clbuild involves a lot of dependencies (pretty much every major VCS), and it doesn't provide any way of handling versions that isn't "branch off and start resetting" 09:05:04 I also think it harms the ecosystem by discouraging a release culture, meaning we end up rolling dice to see if things are actually compatible. 09:05:26 rolling release is great and all, but there's just very little you can do when it comes to clbuild to manage it in a practical way :\ 09:05:31 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.175.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:06:07 "what version are you working with?" "whatever I checked out last tuesday" "okay, get the new version" "okay, that broke everything else, thanks" 09:06:08 etc 09:07:32 if what you want is to be able to monkey-patch all your libraries because you're a "power user", a package distribution system can handle that too :\ 09:07:33 that is a problem with all distribution systems tho 09:07:42 holycow: asdf is more like the poor man's make 09:07:47 sykopomp: the whole idea of clbuild was to deal with the reality that a working release culture was not coming into existence. to successfully solve a simple problem rather than fail to solve a hard one. 09:07:51 Fare: ah. k. 09:07:51 a distribution system would be more like debian 09:07:52 danke 09:08:09 clbuild is like debian experimental 09:08:25 Axius [n=ade@92.84.31.136] has joined #lisp 09:08:26 *nod* k. the visual is in. 09:09:02 no, clbuild is like clusterfuck. Not even rolling release distros handle things that badly. 09:09:19 clbuild is bad, but *THAT* bad? 09:09:32 in fact, I'm totally okay with having rolling-release (gentoo or arch-style, as opposed to integrated tested blobs) 09:09:34 s/bad/not perfect/ 09:09:39 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.31.136] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:09:55 Fare: clbuild does absolutely nothing with respect to checking whether a specific graph of libraries is in any way compatible with each other. 09:10:11 sykopomp, I'm not familiar enough w/ clbuild, but what's so wrong about it? 09:10:26 sykopomp: you mean, with respect to versioning? 09:10:35 Fare: "what versioning?" 09:10:41 i guess dpkg is out of the question given that it isn't ported everywhere? 09:11:00 if you want to get a "version", you need to start screwing around with whatever VCS that project happens to use. 09:11:14 -!- dys` is now known as dys 09:11:23 and of course, you need to get information about what works with what -elsewhere-, since neither clbuild or the VCS will let you know. 09:11:27 holycow, it's also out of the question due to the "interesting" nature of lisp software distribution as source that can be compiled by many different compilers with as many variants (versions, options, etc.) 09:11:54 oh right 09:12:11 sykopomp, libcl is meant as something that does the version matching 09:12:21 libcl is a different thing, imo. 09:12:44 I see libcl as a very convenient package for complete newbies that packages a bunch of things together that you'd expect to already have included with, say, python. 09:12:53 so it makes the initial experience a little easier. 09:13:15 there's some overlap there when you're talking about library distribution, but the latter is much more general 09:13:30 interesting 09:13:39 I don't expect every lisp package ever to be available in libcl. I think just a selection of the obviously useful ones belongs there. 09:13:51 so if said 'package manager' came into existence, we are almost on our way to a lisp distro 09:13:57 a library distribution system, otoh, should have every single module it can possibly get its hands on. 09:14:14 holycow: only as far as CPAN -> perl distro. 09:15:34 I thought that desire should provide the distribution system on top of which libcl would pick a known-working configuration 09:15:36 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE001b114aff40-CM00186832f718.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:45 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@adsl-89-217-249-68.adslplus.ch] has quit [] 09:16:02 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@130-142.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 09:17:14 Fare: fully testing a working configuration involves other problems, whith debian itself suffers 09:17:55 and I think that would find even less acceptance than anything else we've had so far, from both users and authors. 09:18:20 users are going to get old-as-shit modules, and authors are going to have trouble getting their libraries out. 09:18:23 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 09:18:45 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-34-14.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:20:00 sykopomp, have you seen Vestasys or Nix? 09:20:34 sykopomp, well, ecl and desire do some testing, and I don't see why not do it. 09:22:14 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:22:57 Fare: Nix sounds familiar. 09:24:58 nixos.org 09:25:31 that sounds pretty cool! 09:26:36 you should discuss with _deepfire who develops desire 09:27:29 I should indeed. 09:27:39 desire looks a bit... complicated :\ 09:29:40 you talk him into simplicity 09:30:40 for now, I'll talk myself to sleep. Goodnight :) 09:31:20 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-129-177.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:32:16 -!- Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-54-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:34:17 htunk [n=htunk@ppp-71-139-36-121.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:44 -!- nybbles [n=nybbles@CPE000ae6ad1ea9-CM00169240d79c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 09:35:36 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@CPE001b114aff40-CM00186832f718.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:06 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:38:27 Moin moin! 09:39:19 hello pbusser 09:39:24 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 09:43:30 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit ["leaving"] 09:45:11 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:48:03 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:51:57 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-239-76.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:01:36 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:01:46 nicklevine_ [n=chatzill@gannet.ravenbrook.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:59 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:06:56 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@115.67.175.177] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:09:13 -!- partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:25 -!- nicklevine [n=chatzill@gannet.ravenbrook.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:16:30 -!- plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:19:41 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:21:16 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:09 -!- __mathrick is now known as mathrick 10:28:31 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 10:28:35 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:29:23 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:58 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:29:59 hey 10:30:05 multiple-value-call: Symbol's function definition is void: slime-enclosing-form-specs 10:30:11 that happens when using meta-point for xref 10:35:45 rittweil [n=rittweil@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:10 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:50:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-239-76.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:54:13 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-146-114.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:55:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-34-14.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:56:57 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:06:30 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:08:01 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-146-114.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:23 shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.147.72] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-61-90-20-216.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:24:00 abeaumont_ [n=Alfredo@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:24:31 -!- abeaumont_ [n=Alfredo@84.76.48.250] has quit [Client Quit] 11:24:55 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-141-9.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:25:09 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-33.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:27:43 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 11:27:59 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:30 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:05 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:29:44 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:34:40 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:39:18 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:11 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:04 <_deepfire> Ouch! I made a lot of effort for desire to be as end-user-hassle-free as possible, and I ended up having it called complicated! Clearly more documentation effort is due :-) 11:45:31 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:52:41 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 11:58:56 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has joined #lisp 11:59:25 _deepfire: I'd like to be evangelized. How about creating a blog, and starting a series? 12:00:29 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:04:02 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:32 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A8F2E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:12 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-141-9.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:23 xan [n=xan@91.Red-88-24-215.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:50 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:20 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:41 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 12:18:49 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:34 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:23:32 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:26:12 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 12:31:14 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:31:16 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-25-12.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:30 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:34:51 plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has joined #lisp 12:34:54 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:34:55 Good evening! 12:37:11 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:12 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has joined #lisp 12:44:34 -!- shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.147.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:44:50 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:53 partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 12:47:41 plage: Good day to you. 12:52:11 -!- plage [n=user@123.19.61.214] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:53:04 -!- partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:53:27 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:53:46 -!- rittweil [n=rittweil@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:57:10 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-82-230.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 <_deepfire> rittweil, Another thing I should do these days.. 13:00:57 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:02:58 uferhangs [n=uferhang@port-92-204-6-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:18 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:08:53 -!- uferhangs [n=uferhang@port-92-204-6-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 13:13:49 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-104-205.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:14:02 kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142127072.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 13:16:13 sellout [n=greg@pool-71-123-34-153.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:36 Is there a function equivalent to (car (last (pathname-directory path)))? 13:22:31 pr [n=pr@p579CAEB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:36 clhs last 13:23:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_last.htm 13:23:56 sorry 13:28:28 monra [n=monra@147.52.197.223] has joined #lisp 13:29:19 plutonas: Hello my brother! 13:30:36 -!- kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142127072.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:31:31 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-179.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:38:41 Axius [n=ade@92.85.26.17] has joined #lisp 13:46:27 plutonas: are you there? 13:46:28 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-82-230.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:47 -!- monra [n=monra@147.52.197.223] has quit ["leaving"] 13:51:16 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 13:51:39 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-118-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:53:21 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066166.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:42 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.26.17] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:00:16 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@115.240.41.30] has joined #lisp 14:00:17 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@115.240.41.30] has left #lisp 14:01:27 shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.108.145] has joined #lisp 14:02:20 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:03:40 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:04:33 Axius [n=ade@92.85.26.17] has joined #lisp 14:08:01 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066166.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:24 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:08:55 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.26.17] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:33 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:15:29 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:17:20 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-104-205.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:59 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.69] has joined #lisp 14:28:20 http://nostarch.com/lisp.htm 14:28:31 neat conrad barski doing a talking about his new lisp book 14:28:40 probably not too interesting for the experts in here 14:28:47 interesting for us noobs 14:31:06 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 Sounds like the right book for me. :-) 14:35:55 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:36:23 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:36:38 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:52 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:37:52 -!- wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:08 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.142.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:30 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-251.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:39 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:01 xa 14:45:49 errr ... yes even 14:45:51 :) 14:46:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@pool-71-123-34-153.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:48:13 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-135.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:09 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:50:24 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 konr [n=konrad@189.96.103.247] has joined #lisp 14:56:09 redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:52 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-109-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:00:31 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Success] 15:01:22 What do you think about Domain Specific Modeling? I just read a book about software engineering, but it is hardly applicated outside OO programming, so I'm looking for alternatives. 15:02:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:06 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 nuscire [n=user@123.124.16.222] has joined #lisp 15:06:56 -!- nuscire [n=user@123.124.16.222] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:36 fiveop [n=fiveop@p579EA2D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:47 konr: What is Domain Specific Modeling? 15:15:00 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:14 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has joined #lisp 15:17:32 pbusser: seems to be an approach to software engineering that focuses on being closer to the problem's domain than to the particular code implementation and promisses 5-to-10-fold increase of productivity 15:17:54 pbusser: I still have to read a book to get a better picture 15:19:51 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:22:38 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.221.84] has joined #lisp 15:23:21 shrughes [n=shrughes@pool-108-2-120-130.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:59 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:38 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-179-51-253.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:27:55 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:29 noob question time 15:29:47 http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/DownloadInstallation 15:30:09 so i've been working with lispbuilder and similar graphics examples online 15:30:17 all of them use asdf which is great 15:30:34 joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:56 all of them do the (asdf:something 'asdf:something 'packagename) which is cool 15:31:15 i'm running emacs with slime and roughly can move around the environment okay 15:31:52 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.197.223] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:33:04 ever time i start an emacs/slime session, i have to manually redo teh registry and asdf commands. is there a way to tell slime to kind of handle this on startup by looking at a certain folder? how do other people mange these 'pseudo environment' variables? 15:35:07 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:36:33 holycow - you should be able to write a init lisp file which is loaded by the lisp system that you use. For clisp on windows this would be in ~\Application Data\.clisprc.lisp. In this file, you can add (asdf:something 'asdf:something 'packagename) 15:36:48 k 15:42:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-109-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:46:43 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:52 Happy boxing day, all. 15:48:16 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-19-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:50:07 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-46-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:54:41 holycow: other than the init file, you can also dump a lisp image that has the libraries you want for a certain kind of environment preloaded. 15:55:24 if you put asdf stuff in your init file, it could make general startup slower (it might be acceptable, though) 15:55:51 googling that as well! thank you. 15:55:54 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:56:10 holycow: this is clisp, correct? 15:56:46 nope, sbcl. linux too. not new to linux, i just go away from cl long enough to get foggy 15:57:20 although i've never dumped a cl image before so thats something i should learn 15:58:44 madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has joined #lisp 16:00:32 partisan [n=partisan@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 16:02:00 for sbcl you can look at http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html 16:03:59 oh! sweeet. 16:04:01 danke 16:04:47 are pathnames somehow different in clozure cl? (directory (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute :wild))) returns NIL, which is something that seems very broken 16:08:15 blitz_, it looks like CCL takes a bunch of &key args to that function 16:08:32 try (directory (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute :wild)) :directories t) 16:10:14 Adlai: I just discovered that. thanks. Now I know why a lot of people consider DIRECTORY to be crap ;) 16:10:28 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:10:46 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:26 blitz_, or they just consider CL pathnames in general to be crap... :| 16:11:35 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 16:12:32 Adlai: it's better than handling pathnames as strings 16:12:35 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:45 lacedaemon [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-112-26.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:13:09 true 16:13:23 maybe StumpWM should pull in CL-FAD? 16:14:14 joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 rillo2 [n=patrick@p57B84ADB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 LPNs are a great idea, crippled by their definition. :-/ 16:16:04 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:18:15 benny [n=benny@i577A3258.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:03 Adlai: I'll commit a bandaid for now and ask on the ml for some opinions on cl-fad 16:19:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-104-51.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:20:00 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 gigamonkey [n=user@c-68-35-30-9.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:49 Joreji [n=thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:57 davazp [n=user@239.Red-83-46-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:24 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:35 Say I'm in a Hunchentoot handler function and I block for a while. By the time I'm ready to reply, the client has aborted the request. Is there a way to detect that in my function? 16:25:16 gigamonkey: See if the socket can be selected for exceptions? 16:28:58 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:00 Adlai: so how do I tell ccl to include symlinks in DIRECTORY results. how could they make this so broken? 16:29:46 blitz_, it's not broken, it just has different defaults than what we expected 16:30:05 it looks like maybe the :follow-links arg will do that 16:30:07 *Adlai* tests 16:30:18 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:33 Adlai: no it doesnt :-( 16:30:49 nyef: I'm not sure I understand what that even means. 16:31:21 nyef: not sure you have (exposed) access to the socket. 16:31:22 I was hoping for something like an error signaled by Hunchentoot if it got an error on its write. 16:33:11 -!- akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.209] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:33:26 PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:34:08 can someone give me a link that explains how to access a C library from lisp? 16:34:19 PuffTheMagic: lookup CFFI 16:35:13 Does sb-thread:condition-wait map more or less directly to pthread_cond_wait? 16:35:31 thanks 16:35:43 And if so, is there an SBCL equivalent of pthread_cond_timedwait? 16:36:35 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:01 minion, tell PuffTheMagic about cffi 16:39:02 PuffTheMagic: please see cffi: CFFI, the Common Foreign Function Interface, purports to be a portable foreign function interface for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cffi 16:39:22 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.90.1"] 16:41:48 nostoi [n=nostoi@208.Red-79-151-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:27 cbeok [n=user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:24 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FBD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@208.Red-79-151-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:21 I adore erlang, and like lisp. One of the peripherals that made erlang so wonderful to learn was the well-organized, straightforward, and frequently maintained documentation avaialable at erlang.org/doc - can anyone point me to something similar for cl? Specifically, I'm looking for a good catalogue of functions with a standardized presentation format. 16:45:37 -!- joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:45:44 aaaaaand we have collaborative emacs editing now :) 16:45:53 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Rudel 16:46:04 supporting the obby protocol 16:46:06 v nice 16:46:22 clhs m-v-b 16:46:22 MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 16:46:31 cbeok, meet the Common Lisp HyperSpec. 16:46:34 cboek: Do you know about the hyperspec? 16:47:57 ah - no I didn't. Yes - pefect, thanks. 16:47:58 nostoi [n=nostoi@208.Red-79-151-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:33 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:38 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:49:10 as far as libraries go, there's less consistency, but an example of well documented libraries is Edi Weitz's work. For example, http://weitz.de/cl-fad/ 16:50:04 joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:04 Who hacks threads for SBCL? 16:51:29 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:07 Another appealing aspect of learning erlang was its relative dearth of dialects - I suspect that the wealth of them in lisp must say something about its general appeal - it does, however, make learning the language a little daunting. ah well. thanks again for the directions. 16:54:12 -!- cbeok [n=user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:55:00 The good news is that lisp is an essentially simple language. 16:55:42 With layer upon layer of crap piled on top, without obliterating that fundamental simplicify. 16:58:50 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:39 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-0cev9v9.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:59:52 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066169.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 16:59:57 -!- konr [n=konrad@189.96.103.247] has left #lisp 17:01:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-13-211.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 17:01:47 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.173.9] has joined #lisp 17:04:16 nybbles [n=nybbles@CPE000ae6ad1ea9-CM00169240d79c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:07 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:51 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 17:12:11 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@p579EA2D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:17:59 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:50 gigamonkey: mega, nikodemus, jsnell, mostly; nyef and myself a bit. 17:19:53 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:21:08 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:36 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-179.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:22:57 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@208.Red-79-151-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:23:14 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:25:48 emarsden [n=user@lan31-3-82-225-111-50.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:39 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:27:58 pkhuong: I'm looking at the modular arithmetic stuff, and wondering if the mod32/mod64 stuff should be removed in favor of word or similar. 17:28:08 (modwd?) 17:29:39 nyef: don't we have both mod32 and mod64 arith on x86-64? 17:30:13 but otherwise, sure, a modwd. I've also been thinking about moving some of the strength reduction to VOPs instead of doing it in IR1. 17:32:06 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:32:59 I'm starting to use #. and ` in place of reader conditionals. It's far more expressive. 17:33:16 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 And I'm thinking to do the modfx conversion and push it to before rearranging the type-tags. 17:33:51 yeah, I think that's a clear copy paste elimination win. 17:34:33 I also did a bit of a history rewrite to deal with the whitespace and ra/pc thing, though I'm planning to completely re-do the backtrace-from-context thing anyway. 17:34:44 Since it's also copy-paste damage. 17:35:10 the >= word vs < word-sized array VOP should probably all be generated in a single macro. 17:35:42 Mmm... Actually, let me paste what I did with the float array VOPs. 17:35:44 Is there a reason we wouldn't also want a VOP to index into a word-sized vector with an unsigned-reg? 17:38:35 nyef pasted "floaty array accessor" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92660 17:38:37 nyef: something to eval and splice-in would be even cooler. 17:38:45 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-118-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:47 #!,? 17:39:14 oh, yeah, that's one way to make do without #!, (: 17:39:23 Portable, too. 17:39:43 I also made it so that it'd work if we did a version with two fixnum tag bits. 17:39:50 And, yes, that will be the final test. 17:40:00 nifty. 17:42:06 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:50 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 17:44:19 hello, I have a loop form, how can I specify the return value of the whole for? I tried (loop for .... ... ... finally return 'my-return-value) but its bad 17:44:26 whole form* 17:46:01 ... finally (return 'my-return-value)) 17:46:03 ignotus: finally (return ...). 17:46:25 ahah, thats right, thank you 17:47:42 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:49:07 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:49:15 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:53:14 pkhuong, nyef: do you have any opinion on whether it would be handy for SBCL to allow sb-thread:condition-wait to accept a timeout argument? 17:53:24 gigamonkey: it would. 17:54:24 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:43 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.221.84] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:57:26 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:34 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:58:59 pkhuong: I guess if I get really desparate for it, I'll try to puzzle out a patch but from what I've seen, it's probably something that'd be easy for someone familiar with the code to put in. 17:59:17 gigamonkey: the problem is that not all platforms support these via pthreads. 17:59:37 gigamonkey: in fact, I have a really hacky hack to use FDs to provide something sort of like condition variables. 18:00:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:27 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:02:45 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 Ah. 18:03:12 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has quit ["so long.."] 18:04:52 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 gigamonkey: there's a patch coming up to add support for timedwait on futex-less platforms. 18:06:49 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:06:53 We'll see how well that works on OS X :\ 18:06:59 plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.197.223] has joined #lisp 18:07:06 And then there's the question of how to make all the threading stuff work on win32, which doesn't even provide the same set of underlying synchronization primitives. 18:07:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:08:19 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-111-166.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:10:48 Bah. I hate computers. 18:11:25 Meanwhile, is there some easy way to print to the stream connected to the SLIME repl from threads other than the repl thread? 18:11:27 dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 18:11:35 gigamonkey: rebind it. 18:11:56 (let ((stdout *s-o*)) (make-thread (lambda () (let ((*s-o* stdout)) ...)))) 18:12:30 set swank:*globally-redirect-io* to T 18:12:43 (before starting swank) 18:12:49 Ah. 18:13:00 i.e. in ~/.swank.lisp 18:13:29 or setf symbol-global-value, after the fact. 18:13:59 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:14:14 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:34 well, it won't reinitialize streams 18:14:54 Ah, right. I hadn't thought about the fact that *standard-output* in the REPL is the stream I want. 18:15:03 akamaus [n=maus@94.231.112.177] has joined #lisp 18:15:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:31 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:57 -!- dalkvist_ [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23:36 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.132.102.200] has joined #lisp 18:23:53 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:27:16 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.221.84] has joined #lisp 18:28:24 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:29:15 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-33.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:32:40 -!- sytse_ [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:32:55 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:33:52 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066169.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:09 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:03 -!- Sergio`_ is now known as Sergio` 18:36:52 -!- shortsightedsid [n=shortsig@122.172.108.145] has quit [] 18:36:57 -!- davazp [n=user@239.Red-83-46-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:37:56 davazp [n=user@17.Red-83-54-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:41:58 sytse [i=sytse@2001:610:1908:8000:21e:8cff:fe1e:77af] has joined #lisp 18:43:33 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:15 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:46:46 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:49:13 Ferrari_308_GTS [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-42-76.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:53:23 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-164-190.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:56:03 -!- lacedaemon [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-112-26.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56:37 Reav_ [n=Sarge@41.221.87.249] has joined #lisp 19:00:13 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:01:19 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl1218.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:20 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-53-23.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:05 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:05:37 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-53-23.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:55 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-53-23.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:08:02 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has joined #lisp 19:09:33 HG` [n=HG@xdslet088.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:22 ... So, there's this function, os_context_fp_addr(), which only exists for x86 and x86-64 targets, and only linux and win32 targets at that, isn't in any of the header files, and isn't actually used anywhere. 19:12:49 So, of course, it's -perfect- for what I'm trying to do. :-/ 19:16:01 fiveop [n=fiveop@p579EA2D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:16:39 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066166.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 19:18:22 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:30 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:20:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-173-63-104-207.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:58 *nyef* notes the existence of a #define reg_FP in the x86oid arch lispregs.h files and uses that instead 19:24:26 slime-mdot-fu is broken on new slime 19:24:28 or should i not use it/ 19:24:57 weirdo: it's broken indeed, it was not yet adapted to some new changes 19:28:52 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:04 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:31:40 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:31:55 what is the easiest way to create a sorted list which can be inserted and from which the first node can be deleted ? 19:32:21 java, c++ has this collection, how can i achieve this in lisp ? 19:33:08 konichiwa: The easiest way is to understand that the only way to get what you appear to be looking for is either to only have one reference to the list or to have a wrapper object of some sort for the list. 19:34:07 the best would be to use a sorted tree implementation on a list 19:34:20 2nd best might be a sorted array, so that i can do a binary search in log(n) time 19:34:41 Hang on. Do you want an actual LIST, or are you more looking for an indexed data structure of some sort? 19:35:21 i need to be able to find the largest element in a set, insert into it, and remove the largest 19:35:34 so really it is a sorted set that i need, the order is not important 19:36:00 doesn't "sorted" imply "order is important"? 19:36:05 i don't need to be able to traverse it in order 19:36:25 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-46-133.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 19:37:11 in java i would use a sorted set 19:37:38 lisp is fun for high-school math 19:38:05 Priority queue? 19:39:19 i think sorted sets are usually implemented as a kind of tree 19:39:28 red black tree or something like that 19:39:45 too complicated for me to do for this i think 19:40:10 there is a special kind of tree in which the re-balancing is guaranteed to be n log(n) or something good like that 19:40:34 Krystof [n=csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:00 i bet i can find a ready-made set of routines for it somewhere 19:41:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-black_tree 19:41:59 Fare [n=Fare@adsl-71-135-54-71.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 minion: trees? 19:42:32 trees: TREES is a Library which provides binary trees of several flavors, all exposed through a uniform CLOS interface. http://www.cliki.net/trees 19:43:10 what does CLOS stand for ? 19:43:21 minion: CLOS? 19:43:22 CLOS: The Common Lisp Object System is based on generic functions, multiple inheritance, and declarative method combination. http://www.cliki.net/CLOS 19:44:42 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 19:45:26 Oop. Emergency call, gotta run. 19:45:31 konichiwa: so, you want a heap? 19:45:44 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Gotta run."] 19:46:22 pkhuong: i am generating "states" that have a score, i want to keep the states sorted by their score 19:47:00 so i need efficient insert, and i need to know the state w/highest score 19:47:18 so you want a heap. 19:47:21 (priority queue). 19:47:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:47:35 i'm not familiar with the heap data structure 19:47:54 i'll take your word for it. i believe a red-black tree implementation would work 19:48:02 because that is what java and c++ use for sorted sets 19:48:24 But you don't actually want a sorted set. 19:48:32 -!- davazp [n=user@17.Red-83-54-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:47 a sorted set what meet my needs 19:48:53 and then some. 19:49:11 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-46-133.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 19:50:04 i just need to be able to insert while maintaining the order, and find and delet ethe biggest 19:50:15 so that would indeed sound like your priority queue 19:50:55 i don't know how to use lisp packages, i'll have to look that up and see how hard it looks 19:51:44 PassingStranger [n=Horst@p54BF4B75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 i hate it when books / articles are unecessarily verbose ... i want to use a package 19:55:10 why don't they just say " put the package here, the package declares interfaces so, you call them so " 19:55:15 that is all i need to know 19:55:40 i'm reading, and the fools haven't told me how i inform my lisp interpreter where and how to load the package 19:55:46 are they crazy, or am i crazy ? 19:55:55 both! 19:56:42 the C book by kernhigan and ritchie is close to my ideal ... as breif as possible 19:57:34 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:14 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 minion, xach-asdf for konichiwa 20:01:10 konichiwa: have a look at xach-asdf: Xach's article "Making a small Common Lisp project" can be found at http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 20:01:29 ehh maybe that's not ideal on how to use other people's systems, though 20:01:53 *Adlai* is assuming that konichiwa meant "system" instead of "package" 20:03:16 there's a link for that too: http://weitz.de/packages.html 20:03:57 konichiwa, namespaces (packages) and modules (ASDF systems) are orthogonal in CL 20:05:57 -!- madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:07:34 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:43 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:33 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:10:51 where do you put the files for a package, relative to your own foo.lsp file, assuming your whole project is within foo.lsp ? 20:10:58 madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has joined #lisp 20:11:03 where do you put it so that the interpreter will find it ? 20:11:14 i swear i'm looking for that info and haven't found it yet 20:11:28 minion, please tell konichiwa about xach-asdf 20:11:28 konichiwa: please see xach-asdf: Xach's article "Making a small Common Lisp project" can be found at http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 20:11:30 again 20:11:56 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslet088.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:00 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:00 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@c-68-35-30-9.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:16 lsp extension is an unfortunate choice 20:13:13 is anyone willing to provide a simple explanation of this? 20:13:29 your linked doc does not answer my question so far as i can see 20:13:51 a "no" answer is acceptable, lets not start the spanish inquisition ove rthis 20:14:19 i'm simply asking what are the standard calls to load a package, how a package is organized, and if any particular location is significant 20:14:31 for example, emacs has a "site lisp" idrectory where you usually put stuff 20:14:38 http://common-lisp.net/~mmommer/asdf-howto.shtml#sec11 20:14:40 for all i know, the same is true of common lisp 20:14:55 konichiwa, did you read the link stassats gave from weitz.de? 20:15:20 yes, it's a bunch of cr*p about writing a package, using slime. it doesn't say anything about using a package as far as i can see 20:15:27 i don't want to write a package, i jus twant to use one 20:15:32 and i DO NOT use slime 20:15:35 and i never will 20:15:51 and i DO NOT load packages 20:15:54 and i never will 20:15:58 fair enough 20:16:05 no, that was crap about "packages are not systems", not slime 20:16:25 ah, wait i thought you asked bout the livecourhnal one 20:16:31 im about to look at the de one 20:16:57 this one http://weitz.de/packages.html 20:18:31 voyed [i=7aa1651f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ksomyfoeoogvldcm] has joined #lisp 20:20:42 I am a C,C++,Python progammer. I've read about a lot of legendry stories by Paul Graham and others about Lisp. I want to ask to the Lisp programmers, that what is it that I wuold gain by learning Lisp. Like, will I be able program faster? nicer? 20:20:49 minion: memo for Xach: there's a problem on your end with tags in your sanitiser (the closing slash is lost). that's why more than 50% of my latest entry appears as a link on planet lisp! 20:20:50 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 20:21:18 I am a C,C++,Python progammer. I've read about a lot of legendry stories by Paul Graham and others about Lisp. I want to ask to the Lisp programmers, that what is it that I wuold gain by learning Lisp. Like, will I be able program faster? nicer? 20:21:25 voyed: we got it the first time. 20:21:43 pkhuong: oh, I thought I was disconnected for some reason 20:22:16 what do you guys think of the way turned out? 20:22:28 -!- nybbles [n=nybbles@CPE000ae6ad1ea9-CM00169240d79c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 20:23:51 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:24:58 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:25:02 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:26:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-173-63-104-207.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:27:07 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-25-12.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:28 apparently i don't have this "asdf" thing installed 20:29:03 are you using sbcl? 20:29:05 (ASDF:OOS 'ASDF:TEST-OP :TREES) is how i'm s upposed to test the trees package 20:29:20 i was hoping to use the tests to learn how to use the package 20:29:42 stassats: i don't know, the package docs ("readme.txt") say that's how you test 20:29:51 is it specific to sbcl? i don't know 20:30:10 no, i asked because sbcl includes ASDF 20:30:23 i'm using clisp in darwin 20:30:30 i also have ecl 20:30:33 lemme check ecl 20:30:42 try (require 'asdf) on ecl 20:31:38 ecl and asdf both say there is no package with name ASDF 20:31:39 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:32:03 "and asdf"? 20:32:12 ecl worked 20:32:23 (require 'asdf) in ecl loaded the package 20:33:09 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:28 asdf doesn't give about packages, it's a -system- facility 20:33:36 do you know how i can look at the trees test code, given (ASDF:OOS 'ASDF:TEST-OP :TREES) is how you execut ei t? 20:33:38 please learn the difference 20:33:40 how do i get the source 20:34:04 did you download it? 20:34:21 i downloaded the tree package source 20:34:21 lacedaemon [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-34-190.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:34:40 what should i grep for, to find the test stuff ? 20:34:54 do i grep for "test-op" ? 20:34:59 you can look in .asd 20:35:44 a clue, in trees.asd i find (find-system :trees-tests)) 20:36:08 then look in trees-tests.asd 20:36:24 i dont have tree-tests.asd 20:36:27 wasn't in the tar 20:36:41 treeS-tests? 20:37:03 it may be defined in trees.asd as well 20:37:06 only have on asd, trees.asd 20:37:08 no test asd 20:37:58 trees.asd is tiny, only about 30 lines, i don't think it has test code in it 20:38:05 konichiwa, maybe there's a (defsystem trees-tests ..) in that file 20:38:21 (defpackage :trees-tests 20:38:43 (defmethod perform ((op test-op) (c (eql (find-system :trees)))) 20:38:43 (oos 'test-op 'trees-tests)) 20:39:18 ah, there is a defsystem, didn't see it 20:41:31 -!- Ferrari_308_GTS [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-42-76.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:41:53 i had this crazy idea i'd find somewhere an example of using this package in which it showed how to insert, find, remove elements in the tree 20:42:29 I'm not sure you -want- trees. Don't you want a heap/pqueue? 20:42:39 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:45 either would do. if it works, honestly i don't really care 20:43:08 i simply don't want to have my inserts be O(n) 20:43:26 minion, heap? 20:43:26 heap: Heap provides two priority queue implementations in common lisp; a simple linked list and a Fibonacci heap. http://www.cliki.net/heap 20:43:30 trees will do that for me. in a way trees are preferable, because they're more general 20:43:46 i can use trees for a lot of future projects that a heap might not be applicable to 20:44:06 only reason i'd use a heap is if heap is a build in feature of lisp 20:44:10 like the hash table 20:44:51 there's no law that says you can only use one library for your entire life 20:45:05 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-heap/ might be the most appropriate 20:46:27 this looks easy to use http://cybertiggyr.com/gene/lisp-heap/lisp-heap.html#SECTION00042000000000000000 20:46:42 perhaps i'll use the heap, just cuz some people put up a simple example i can follow 20:47:24 simple example... like Xach's guide that we linked earlier 20:47:26 thanks. i'm not sure i would have been able to figure out how to use the tree (in the time i want to spend on this) 20:48:08 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:49:16 the example i posted is so simple, it literally requires no thought to use 20:49:24 i don't have to learn about systems, packages, modules, asdf 20:49:33 just put the file in the directly, bam, i'm done 20:49:36 =) 20:49:38 packages you probably need to learn about. 20:49:44 not scalable 20:50:07 honestly i don't like lisp so far ... although i do appreciate the help i've gotten here 20:50:19 it seems like a really cryptic language to me 20:50:53 which is "it"? 20:50:53 because you haven't learned it yet 20:51:07 gag me with a spoon, it uses (provide "heap") 20:51:26 yay modern mode? 20:51:37 yay "modules" 20:51:39 that too. 20:52:05 swank uses modules too 20:52:48 but provide is deprecated, no? 20:52:55 it's a good idea. evidently, they're simpler than asdf packages. 20:53:30 tic: "deprecated" is deprecated 20:53:40 you lost me. 20:58:05 -!- voyed [i=7aa1651f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ksomyfoeoogvldcm] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 20:59:14 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-163.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:05:11 perhaps that's a comment on the rate at which the ANSI CL standard is evolving. 21:05:25 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:10 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FBD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:07:41 that would be the point of having a standard... 21:07:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:09:57 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:11:05 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:11:53 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:12:33 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11915.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:53 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:00 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-232-222.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:29 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 21:13:30 Ferrari_308_GTS [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-67-54.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:15:33 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:16:07 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:17:08 -!- kwinz3 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[n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:24 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:09:24 -!- joubert_ is now known as joubert 22:10:37 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:47 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:58 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:23 kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-173-63-104-207.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:12 -!- rillo2 [n=patrick@p57B84ADB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:19:44 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:07 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-111-166.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:24:12 is asdf suppose to even recompile dependencies when you :force t 22:25:19 yes, recursively 22:25:24 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:49 ya just noticed the recursion as well 22:26:52 no way to mark a particular dependency as static, so to speak 22:27:57 probably just better to remove the depends-on 22:30:54 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 22:31:27 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-173-63-104-207.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:34:13 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:36:04 Guthur: there is a way to recompile only one system, slime-asdf contrib can do it 22:36:28 Krystof [n=csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:34 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-88-84.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 22:40:40 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 22:40:46 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11915.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:47:22 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:54:47 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:07 lacedaemon [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-67-94.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:00:51 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 23:01:17 asdf++ 23:03:56 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-67-54.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:04:10 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 23:04:22 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 23:06:26 ericjames [n=ericjeld@pool-71-126-42-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:18 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:09:31 pr [n=pr@p579CA577.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:56 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:19 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.221.84] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:11:02 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:50 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:12:08 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:12:17 i'm using clisp and defining a function in the REPL which prints using format, however when i execute the function nothing is printed but the return of the function. how do i see being printed by format? 23:12:33 i should say i'm using slime with clisp 23:12:56 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-67-160-236-52.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:00 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 23:13:55 lithper1: check the *inferior-lisp* buffer 23:14:22 ah, i see. 23:15:20 lithper1: and update your slime 23:15:27 what version of slime are you using? 23:17:20 i don't even know, i got a copy from apt-get. i just went for the fastest installation possible. 23:17:27 i'm sure it's not the latest 23:18:12 right, it's not, but in the latest version this issue is fixed 23:19:11 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 23:19:44 great. i'll get the latest version then. 23:20:09 and don't forget to _purge_ slime and cl-swank after that 23:22:01 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:23:22 ok, i'll find out what that means. i just started with CL so i'm getting around the environment. 23:24:14 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:06 bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:25:08 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:25:31 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:25:33 lithper1: that means apt-get --purge remove slime cl-swank 23:25:34 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:25:41 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 23:25:49 plage [n=user@123.19.45.41] has joined #lisp 23:25:50 so, it's not about CL 23:25:54 Good morning! 23:26:14 plage: good night! 23:28:28 hi plage 23:29:01 -!- emarsden [n=user@lan31-3-82-225-111-50.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:29:07 plage: do you have a DVI-VGA adapter ? 23:29:50 I don't think I do, no. 23:30:13 Were you thinking about using one of the HP monitors? 23:30:30 yes 23:32:45 There is a big store called Surcouf or something like that, that has all kinds of computer stuff, but it's a bit hard to get to. There are also smaller computer stores downtown, which are easier to get to, but that are less likely to have all things in stock. 23:37:47 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:14 stassats: is it possible to get the slime-asdf contrib function from the repl 23:40:11 Guthur: you mean not typing ,reload-system? that's (swank:reload-system system-name) 23:40:47 stassats: cool, cheers 23:41:26 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@pool-71-126-42-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:41:41 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 23:41:41 fe[nl]ix: In the docstring for make-static-vector you say that the static vector "might" be allocated in foreign memory. Under what conditions is it not? 23:43:27 LiamH: I should make that clearer: on some implementations the resulting vector is managed by GC, on others it must be deallocated manually 23:44:40 fe[nl]ix: Now I'm more confused. 23:46:00 fe[nl]ix: Does static-vector-pointer always return a foreign pointer regardless of where the vector is allocated? 23:46:22 yes 23:46:26 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:44 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:48:37 fe[nl]ix: OK, so from my point of view it doesn't matter where it is allocated. If I need to manually deallocate I can do that, but I will always have the vector available to foreign functions. 23:49:40 -!- adu [n=ajr@pool-74-96-89-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:28 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:50:42 LiamH: practically, in order to deallocate a static vector you must first call free-static-vector then remove all references to it 23:51:01 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:51:55 fe[nl]ix: I was thinking I would do that in a tg:finalize, then I wouldn't have to worry about freeing the references. 23:52:19 rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:42 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 23:53:03 LiamH: a finalization on the vector itself ? 23:53:37 fe[nl]ix: No, it's a slot in an object in my case. 23:54:44 LiamH: if you're using the static vector only as "backend" for an object you'll probably only have one reference to it: the slot itself 23:54:58 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:15 fe[nl]ix: Yes. 23:57:58 LiamH: so, in the object's finalization call free-static-vector and you're done 23:59:14 fe[nl]ix: That's what I was thinking. I assume that in implementations where that's unnecessary, such a call does no harm.