00:01:17 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit ["Switching to single-player mode."] 00:02:27 why the hell is my window not expanding beyond 319 px 00:03:39 I think it's because of the (horizontally () (make-pane 'push-button ...) (make-pane 'push-button) 00:08:12 rahul, you have set a maxsize 00:08:27 or someone has 00:09:03 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.137] has left #lisp 00:09:05 The window manager has been set to take such 'hints' 00:10:11 yes, and why would 2 horizontally laid out buttons do that? 00:10:29 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:39 space-requirements? 00:11:44 nyef: I'm not setting any 00:12:09 and the max is not the sum of the sizes of the buttons 00:12:34 oh wait, maybe it's because of the min on the other pane, so the max is forced bigger on the button pane 00:12:53 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 00:17:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:28 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:25:24 pr_ [n=pr@p579CAAAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:55 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C0FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:18 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:53 -!- drwhen [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:20 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:21 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.142.53] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:36:44 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:39:40 davazp [n=user@172.Red-83-55-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:34 milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.42] has joined #lisp 00:42:07 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:49 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-236-191-24.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:47:01 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:48:34 HAH 00:49:38 (frame-geometry* frame) inside of (setf frame-current-layout) computes the geometry based on the former layout 00:49:45 not sure why, but it seems to be that way 00:50:00 also, I can't override anything to prevent changing layout from resizing the window 00:52:08 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:51 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6DCD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 01:06:20 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:08:38 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 01:15:38 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-179.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:15:55 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 01:16:10 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:42 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:17:00 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:26 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:11 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:22:54 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:25 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:02 Grissom [n=Grissom@bolide.parc.xerox.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:00 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 01:30:54 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 01:34:14 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:38:07 baddog [n=baddog@110.32.130.151] has joined #lisp 01:38:22 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:36 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:40:07 -!- baddog [n=baddog@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:32 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:41:20 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:20 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 01:44:21 -!- Grissom [n=Grissom@bolide.parc.xerox.com] has left #lisp 01:45:20 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-73.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:46:38 What's (declare (truly-dynamic-extent ...))? 01:47:21 allocate things on somebody else's stack to save even more space 01:49:49 sellout: dx even when safety would disable it. 01:49:59 Only useful for closed-over bindings. 01:50:16 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:50:20 Ah, yeah, ok. 01:50:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:38 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:51:11 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:28 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:53:53 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715083437]"] 01:54:41 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:55:46 simple-array-unsigned-byte-8-widetag means primitive object type vector, not array, right? 02:01:18 nyef: should have its own primitive type (simple-array-unsigned-byte-8)... 02:01:33 Grr, "Bus error" and not even getting into the kernel debugger doesn't tell me _how_ I broke the compiler. 02:01:39 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["tired"] 02:01:52 No, there are only two array types defined in objdef. 02:02:06 sb!c::primitive-type says otherwise. 02:02:39 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 02:02:45 There's a difference between primitive-type and primitive-object. 02:03:03 oh sorry, this isn't about the compiler. 02:03:17 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CAAAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 02:03:23 It's more about the layout-in-memory. 02:03:32 then yes, vector, not array. 02:03:52 Yeah, and unfortunately, the vector contents look good. :-/ 02:04:00 Kruppe [n=user@d67-193-142-150.home3.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:06 Though figuring that out from ldb was a pain. 02:04:44 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DCD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:12 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:12 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:11:30 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:14 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-88-212.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:28 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:45 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:16:26 Found it. copy-ub8-to-system-area is corrupting as it copies. 02:18:48 neat. 02:19:06 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:20:56 doh. 02:21:49 Of course, figuring out -why- is going to take a little doing. 02:22:01 Since the macro is a little nasty. 02:27:32 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 02:27:38 *froydnj* hangs his head in shame 02:28:04 Actually, the trace file is nowhere near as bad as I was fearing. 02:28:34 the macro is pretty nasty, but the macroexpansion is pretty straightforward, and the assembly likewise 02:29:13 The only problem being that there's a bug in the assembly. 02:29:15 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:29:18 But that would be my fault. 02:30:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DCD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 02:31:58 -!- Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has quit [] 02:35:21 Is this function supposed to be trying to copy a word at a time? 02:36:24 nyef: yes. 02:38:08 Somehow, it seems to be stepping the source 8 octets for every 2 it steps the destination. 02:38:30 oh jesus. (sap-ref-word sap (the index (ash offset sb!vm:n-fixnum-tag-bits))) 02:38:32 So the destination counter increment is broken. 02:38:34 bad froydnj (: 02:39:04 word-sap-ref? 02:39:16 yup 02:39:35 word-shift? 02:39:52 yeah. 02:40:23 *nyef* slams for the umpteenth time today. 02:41:01 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:41:45 For such a concepually simple hack, this has been a whole lot of trouble. 02:43:12 Much better. 02:44:29 Fun entry looks good immediately after creation. 02:44:58 Still good after setting the trace-table offset. 02:45:10 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:45:28 Didn't actually crash running the function, and gave the correct return value. 02:45:35 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:45:46 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 02:45:47 And it's still not corrupt when creating the next function. 02:45:53 awesome (: 02:46:12 So now I back out my calls to ldb and slam again to see how far it gets. 02:46:26 Modius__ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:29 But this has now successfully executed a setq in target-2. 02:47:10 Can you use sbcl to run lisp files like scripts? 02:47:15 Kruppe: Yes. 02:47:26 There are at least four methods. 02:47:48 nyef: I 02:47:59 nyef: 've tried with sbcl --script 02:48:32 (save-lisp-and-die, fasls have a shebang header, wrapper scripts, and the thing I did in .) 02:48:33 nyef: but it just starts the interactive REPL thing 02:49:03 nyef: more fixnum damage in bit-bash.lisp 02:49:07 (!define-sap-fixer) 02:49:39 nyef: link is dead 02:49:53 Oops. 02:50:05 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/crtc-lcd-test.lisp sorry 02:50:11 nyef: np 02:51:07 That doesn't handle command-line parameters, though (shouldn't be hard to add), and I hope you don't take the sort of things that I do in the rest of that script as good ideas to try. 02:51:13 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:10 If you're going to be poking around with memory-mapped I/O devices, you need to know exactly what you're doing. 02:52:35 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.73.103] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 It produced a warm core! Ship it! 02:53:39 nyef: mm.. got some fixes for debug functions, but who cares about those? 02:53:49 nyef: hey it worked! yay 02:54:10 pkhuong: I have some debug function fixes in my tree as well. 02:54:29 nyef: why does the documentation on the sbcl website claim that you can just use this --script option to do it. It doesn't seem to do anything if it even exists. 02:55:00 Kruppe: why don't you paste what you're currently doing, along with a description of what happens and what you expect? 02:55:21 Kruppe: Your sbcl version might be too old, there might be some catch to it like it dropping into a REPL if the script doesn't (quit) at the end, etc. 02:55:40 nyef: ah 02:55:51 that, or resume whining while hoping for magic telepathic debugging. 02:56:17 woah woah, what's this random-integer-overlap thing in random.lisp? 02:56:39 pkhuong: echo '(write-line "Hello World!")' > test.lisp 02:56:54 pkhuong: then sbcl --script test.lisp 02:57:07 pkhuong: from the docs on the sbcl website that sounds like it should work 02:57:27 Kruppe: sure does here. nyef is probably on to something. 02:57:43 Kruppe: Umm... Isn't it supposed to be "#!/wherever/sbcl --script\n(write-line \"Hello World!\")" ? 02:57:47 pkhuong: yeah probably a version thing 02:58:06 nyef: i was doing it without the shebang at first 02:58:11 nyef: shebang doesnt work either 02:58:22 Okay, then hope for a version thing, I guess. 02:58:24 nyef: not like it would if doing it manually doesnt 02:58:28 Or just work around it. 02:58:49 nyef: ill just get a newer version and see if that works 02:58:52 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-251.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 02:59:44 pkhuong: nyef yeah im rolling with 1.0.19 right now, which seems pretty old 03:00:06 Only 14 months or so, surely? 03:00:26 (And my main sbcl install is 1.0.11.) 03:00:38 nyef: then i have no idea O_O 03:00:46 Well, I also don't use --script. 03:01:04 nyef: oh 03:01:22 nyef: yeah, 14 month old, predates --script by more than 6 months. 03:01:42 2 months, actually. 03:03:13 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:03:19 nyef: so is copy-ub8-* broken just with your tweaked build? 03:03:36 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:53 froydnj: It's only conceptually broken in CVS. 03:04:24 It's only actually broken in my stupid-lowtag-tricks branch. 03:04:28 froydnj: all the sub word copies, actually. 03:04:37 lovely. is the conceptual fix easy enough? 03:05:14 s/n-fixnum-tag-bits/word-shift/. 03:05:20 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:58 ah. yeah, that'd be good. 03:06:35 Okay, I think I just need to rebase and then I can push. 03:06:45 Well, stash first. 03:06:54 nyef: did you fix !define-sap-fixer in bit-bash.lisp? 03:06:57 Nope. 03:09:11 http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/stupid-lowtag-tricks now with rebase and history-rewrite. 03:11:00 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.73.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:11:11 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:12:01 *nyef* pushes again with one additional commit. 03:12:50 kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-23-140.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:20 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:16:27 so, warm core, but fails tests, or fully working? 03:16:51 Warm core, but from a slam, so didn't even run tests. 03:18:47 -!- Kruppe [n=user@d67-193-142-150.home3.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:19:54 I'm not going to do any more hacking tonight, either. 03:20:25 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B23AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:01 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:30:58 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:35:11 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B23AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:39:11 Right, I'm off for the evening. Thanks again for the help, pkhuong. 03:41:01 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d8163a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:36 I'll see where the tests fail. 03:42:31 bougyman [i=bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-4-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:45:57 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.181.237] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:10 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.181.237] has joined #lisp 03:50:10 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-79-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:50:50 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:58:16 -!- wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d81bbb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:16 what is the point of having accepting-values have all these cases that drop into the debugger? 03:59:04 if input is incomplete, that should not make the user abort the command, if they can figure out that the debugger has been invoked and if they have a terminal 04:06:54 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.195.185] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:08:49 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:12:45 Sluggo [n=chrish@c-75-64-59-44.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:56 lusory [n=bart@bb121-6-70-201.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:14:02 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:07 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:10 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:23:18 -!- Devon [n=user@ip98-169-52-21.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:43 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 04:27:01 -!- lusory [n=bart@bb121-6-70-201.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:37 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 04:29:04 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:29:23 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:32:40 lusory [n=bart@bb121-6-212-182.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:59 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:34:04 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:28 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:38:05 rahul: muaha! nice alternative to regex named capture! 04:39:09 working on a space indented text file i turned into a tree, split lines on whitespace, and using a "template" to locate the data. 04:39:47 huangjs` [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 04:40:10 '(:k :k nil :v :v :v) with '("Every" "good" "orc" "eats" "shredded" "wheat") -> '( "Every good" . "eats shredded wheat") 04:40:19 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.181.237] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:40:19 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:40:19 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:43:28 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:44:39 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:45:46 Demosthenes: that's kind of awkward 04:45:53 Demosthenes: but it's mostly just destructuring-bind 04:46:08 with concatenation 04:46:47 but it shows you that what you want to do is nothing near the complexity of what regex has 04:47:41 eh, this was something else. i 04:47:54 i've already built these huge lists of split words and child-paragraphs 04:48:04 why bother with regexp when i have lists already 04:48:46 indeed 04:48:57 believe me, i understand your frustrations with regexp. for single lines its not bad, but try troubleshooting a record matcher that spans 20 lines. you've got no idea where it failed to match. 04:49:03 although regexes can be applied to lists 04:49:30 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.181.237] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:51 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:49:53 Demosthenes: they're also just simply a bad match for the kind of well, matching, you usually want to do 04:50:24 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.181.237] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:50:31 grr, why does hbox-pane ignore the :max-width I give it 04:51:59 stumpwm/ 04:52:28 mcclim 04:53:52 mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 04:55:19 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:55:33 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:59 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:39 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has joined #lisp 05:04:36 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1176024051.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:08:17 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-159-64.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:16 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 05:14:20 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-61.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:19:50 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20:51 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:22:02 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:24:13 khumba [n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:26 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-229-223.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:24:53 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:25:42 any tips on isolating "unreachable code" 05:25:51 i don't see why its happening :P 05:26:33 hmm 05:26:56 shouldn't slime give a line number? 05:27:13 it does. but the code looks good 05:28:25 Demosthenex pasted "unreachable code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92515 05:28:45 the whole sort sexp is underlined in slime... 05:29:40 what's the prior code? 05:32:33 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:32:50 dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:24 Out of curiosity -- is there a way to get access to actual macro functions, as first-class objects? 05:33:28 (a portable way) 05:33:49 more let*'s 05:33:54 er, statements, bu tthe parens complete 05:34:04 i removed the (sort ...) sexp and repalced it with nil and it compiled 05:34:06 nevermind, that's a silly question. 05:37:14 sykopomp: symbol-macro-function 05:38:29 Demosthenes: code elision may not kick in with constant forms 05:38:48 so it just might not tell you 05:42:18 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has left #lisp 05:45:19 slimy_lotus [n=Adium@cuscon122171.tstt.net.tt] has joined #lisp 05:49:32 rahul: macro-function :) 05:52:06 -!- davazp [n=user@172.Red-83-55-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:55:05 rahul: bugger! 05:55:39 the statement before it was using refs to functions in a label.. 06:00:29 and it exited non-locally? 06:02:28 no, i'm calling another function and passing a local label as a #'func to the other 06:03:11 i was trying to encapsulate all my customizations in a function that does all the steps.. so i moved two separate functions into labels in the wrapper... and still passed them 06:03:33 think reading a file, but passing a transform function to perform an arbitrary change to the input... 06:03:47 so now the xform func is a label, instead of a defun 06:03:53 only used in this one wrapper 06:04:15 ok... I don't see how that makes the following binding's value form unreachable 06:04:18 but anyway 06:06:13 i don't get it either. thats the change i just made... 06:06:18 was to relocate to labels 06:06:30 and now thats unreachable, though the code looks right 06:06:40 indents right, parens in good places... *ponder* 06:07:38 Demosthenex pasted "Unreachable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92516 06:07:43 thats the full func 06:08:42 jeez you put a lot of whitespace in your code 06:08:53 eh. 06:09:03 the more blank lines you have, the less code you can read at a glance 06:09:03 coming from other langs, i'm still adapting 06:09:18 only put blank lines to separate top level forms 06:09:29 that's it. 06:09:50 i still have some fantasy idea of "legibility" 06:09:51 ;] 06:09:57 whitespace won't break it though 06:10:24 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:11:41 yeah, legibility of your code is a fantasy 06:11:42 heh 06:12:11 so in this, which code is unreachable? 06:12:48 the sort in the let*, there's a comment above it 06:16:44 I don't get any unreachable code 06:16:49 in sbcl 06:17:01 just a bunch of undefined functions of course :P 06:17:58 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-179-51-253.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:18:43 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-167-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:20:04 really.... i'm getting a single warning about that from slime compilation 06:23:14 wild, it RAN anyway, correctly 06:24:02 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:24:11 i get the same as rahul, also on sbcl 06:24:35 Demosthenes: which compiler? 06:24:59 smells like a bug to me 06:25:41 sbcl in slime... C-c C-k 06:26:00 Demosthenex annotated #92516 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92516#1 06:26:21 good, its not me for once 06:26:51 which version of sbcl? 06:34:45 1.0.29 06:40:13 slime will give you the form. Unreachable code is just a note because it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with your code 06:40:14 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:40:25 it's just the compiler telling you it managed to prove some code will never be executed. 06:40:52 it was. 06:41:29 thats a sequence of local vars in a let* built one top of the next... with the final going out to a file. 06:41:37 that step occurred or the remainder would bomb 06:43:56 etfb [n=poet@ppp121-45-218-205.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:36 ska`` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 06:45:16 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:45:59 Links wanted: I want to write a program in Linux with a GUI. Windows, menus, dialog boxes, etc. If I were an experienced Lisp programmer, how would I do that? 06:46:13 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:48:45 you'd uthe a vithual lithp 06:48:55 -!- slimy_lotus [n=Adium@cuscon122171.tstt.net.tt] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:49:08 -!- opt9 [n=user@59.7.205.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:49:50 -!- snowbeard [n=user@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:52:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:52:29 Ugh. Just had a look at the common answers to this question. They all seem to imply that user interfaces are something you have to build pretty much from scratch. No common library support, no documentation, and a general air of "why would you bother doing THAT?". I think I'll try Python instead. 06:52:37 -!- etfb [n=poet@ppp121-45-218-205.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 06:55:02 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:56:27 wow. i understood it that were a few gui libs, especially in the commercial lisps 06:59:19 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:59:34 -!- khumba [n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net] has quit ["Oyasumi."] 07:00:54 froydnj: awake? 07:01:39 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:09:07 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:15:13 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:29 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 07:29:53 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-109-247.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:33:37 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-77-104.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:34:26 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 07:35:29 akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.209] has joined #lisp 07:37:06 nostoi [n=nostoi@80.31.168.155] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:22 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@80.31.168.155] has quit ["Verlassend"] 07:46:28 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:49:05 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:49:57 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:51:32 oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.154.220] has joined #lisp 07:54:34 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:57:59 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-251.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:13 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@95.35.81.237] has joined #lisp 08:09:09 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.160.162.2] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.160.162.2] has left #lisp 08:11:00 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:15:57 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.154.220] has quit [No route to host] 08:19:59 nicklevinehome [n=chatzill@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust14.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:06 What is the name of the "deconstructor" method in CLOS? 08:23:22 um 08:23:26 QUIT? 08:23:48 you can't "deconstruct" in lisp 08:24:05 something either exists or it's not relevant to your application 08:24:38 you can setf the variable to NIL if you're worried about hanging on to it and not letting the GC discard it 08:25:04 Thought I was missing something obvious. Thanks :) 08:25:07 however, setting it to NIL may be more expensive (writing to memory is REALLY expensive on modern processors) 08:25:51 well, it won't be more expensive than the GC copying the entire object to another generation, of course 08:26:33 but if the GC isn't likely to kick in between when the variable isn't needed and when the function exits, then you're doing extra writes 08:28:15 Hmm... well I suppose I'll just let it fall out of scope. 08:29:09 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:29:37 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:29:38 jtza8: Check out DEFRESSOURCE, that's floating around on the intertubes 08:32:02 Thanks tcr. 08:33:27 konichiwa [n=jdoe@180.94.203.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:47 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:34:44 also, some compilers may figure out that the variable is no longer referenced after a certain point in the function and clear the register that's used for that variable 08:35:16 I suspect the ones that did that were for the lisp machines, tho 08:35:27 if any 08:35:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-9-89.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 08:37:15 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:52 *_deepfire* discovers (file-author (user-homedir-pathname)) 08:41:46 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:43:35 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["sleep"] 08:43:53 why is emacs indentation of lisp code so screwed up ? 08:44:09 its crazy, i just want a paren to imply anoter tab level 08:45:26 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:45:40 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 08:47:32 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:45 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 08:47:51 how is it screwed up? 08:51:30 i like to make function definitions look like C++ or java, with paren replacing { } 08:51:31 -!- dek51 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has left #lisp 08:51:41 i like to put my parents on separate lines often, and indent whats in between 08:51:42 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:51:52 So it's you who crazy not Emacs? 08:52:04 Seriously, why do you want this? 08:53:02 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:13 it make the code much easier to read 08:53:22 (if (cond) 08:53:29 ( 08:53:34 true st1 08:53:37 true st2 08:53:39 ) 08:53:42 ( 08:53:45 false st1 08:53:45 Why have Lispers been intending code differently since 60 years? 08:53:47 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:53:50 false st2 08:53:51 ) 08:53:52 ) 08:54:00 dek51 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has joined #lisp 08:54:03 60? I mean 50 08:54:11 they like complicated looking code ? 08:54:16 i like simple code 08:54:18 Precisely! 08:54:29 It's called for a reason, dude 08:54:36 It's called code for a reason, dude 08:54:42 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:55:11 konichiwa: well, I like to insert newlines after every occurrence of the letter e, and nowhere else. 08:55:27 and I am also very frustrated by emacs' refusal to support this. 08:56:20 -!- ska`` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:57:03 ralith done u mean... 08:57:04 e 08:57:06 macs 08:57:09 konichiwa: Closing parentheses have pretty much no meaning in Lisp; your indenting style is giving them way too much attention 08:57:18 don't* 08:57:35 Guthur: did that look like a line of code to you? 08:57:58 ya human parsable code 08:58:29 no. 08:58:42 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 08:59:11 actually you never specified code 08:59:32 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:01:06 is there such a thing as flet* ? 09:01:19 labels 09:01:55 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:02:33 i'd like to define local functions that make use of prev defined local functions 09:02:38 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:02:42 without nesting flets 09:03:19 Yeah you can often use LABELS for that 09:07:44 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:46 Ok, folks, let me wish you a merry christmas! Till after the holidays.. 09:09:07 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 09:10:57 mother spanks child rather hard.. 09:11:31 took me a hour to find a signature to filter it out 09:11:38 iptables 09:12:55 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:13:19 tcpdump is your friend 09:16:26 Guthur: no. 09:23:09 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:25:10 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:25:42 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 09:27:13 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:23 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:01 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:28:40 mfain [n=mfahin@capella.drutt.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:22 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit ["HULK ANGRY! 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I know (first '(1 2 3..)) -> 1.. Now I want (first-5 '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) -> (1 2 3 4 5) 10:31:55 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:14 j0be (loop for elem in '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7) for count from 1 upto 5 collect elem) would do it 10:33:29 but there is probably a better approach 10:33:52 Guthur: I know loop, was looking for that better approach. Thanks mate. 10:34:55 Is it a isssue if you modify the original list? 10:35:10 because if you read only there is 10:35:26 hmmm dunno, I believe I want a fresh start (a new list) 10:35:43 (loop for elem in '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7) repeat 5 collect elem) 10:36:08 Don't modify original list unless you _have_ to 10:36:24 Trust our GC to be efficient 10:36:31 j0be, well then the loop option is a s good as any 10:36:34 s/our/your 10:37:02 Younder, nicklevinehome, Guthur: I go for the loop option. In 'python' (sry) there is something called 'slicing'... I thought that was a clever idea, but can't find a lisp alternative for that 10:37:02 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:43 j0be, there is one 10:38:18 j0be, but most lispers don't use it. 10:38:23 in another context. Loop is a macro, right? breaking up the loop language into lower lever lisp. How does performance of loop compares with dolist? 10:38:46 j0be, depends on the implemetation' 10:38:53 j0be: will differ between implementations. you'll have to macroexpand in yours 10:39:12 -!- ludwig- [n=ludwig-@adsl-69-235-196-46.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 10:39:12 ... okay. and when I say AllegroCL? 10:39:16 If performance of a loop is real worry 10:39:26 j0be, great, don't worry 10:39:29 for example, you;re writing a garbage collector 10:39:34 then use simple loop 10:40:10 otherwise probably don't worry about it. get your code to work, then if it's too slow profile it to find the hotspots 10:40:47 nicklevine, Younder: thanks! 10:41:10 j0be, seriously the move loop invariants out of the loop the lot, and score significantly higher than other Lisp's in loop tests. 10:42:38 Younder: I can't follow. does loop do side-effecting, is that what you say? Or should I avoid side effecting? 10:42:48 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 10:43:47 j0be, in lisp we make a compromize. we make side effect's local to the function. 10:45:51 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.216.206] has joined #lisp 10:46:08 complex loop macro might side-effect its own variables 10:46:46 If you want full MP try something else 10:47:09 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has joined #lisp 10:47:14 Lisp does not do well on multicore 10:47:34 Or at least not yet 10:47:35 eg (loop ... collect frob) will probably (by which I mean: macroexpand in your implementation to check whether it's true for you) modify the structure of the list in which it's collecting frobs 10:48:06 here is probably the most ridiculous way to do it (make-array 5 :displaced-to (map 'vector (lambda (x) x) '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7))) 10:48:22 it does output an array though 10:48:59 fgtech^ [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 Guthur, that is not as rediccolous at it seems. If it is read only and array is a good way of doing this. 10:49:30 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:32 kwinz__ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has joined #lisp 10:49:56 it would nicer if it was an array to start with 10:49:59 j0be: I just woke up and remembered subseq 10:50:18 Guthur, use a displacement array instead of creating a new one (if read only) 10:50:19 (subseq '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7) 0 5) 10:50:43 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50:57 hehe points go to nicklevinehome 10:50:58 nicklevinehome: AH! indeed that's the one. subsequence 10:50:58 -!- fgtech^ is now known as fgtech 10:51:23 *nicklevinehome* has too much ice on the brain today 10:52:39 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:53:23 one of the tough parts of the spec is realizing that sequence applies to all sequences, like list's array tec. and that if it isn't under,say list, look under sequence 10:54:09 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:42 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:56:16 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:57:36 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has quit ["brb"] 10:57:45 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 11:01:11 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:02:06 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-59-228.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:05:01 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-4-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:29 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-4-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:07:26 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 11:08:30 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has joined #lisp 11:16:17 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has joined #lisp 11:17:26 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17:44 -!- dym_ is now known as dym 11:17:58 -!- kwinz__ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:20:51 oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-177-10.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:22:00 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:50 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@c-67-180-202-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["bye"] 11:31:39 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:34:05 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:35:49 Fury_ [n=Fury@p57904A81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:06 plage [n=user@123.19.37.101] has joined #lisp 11:36:10 Good evening! 11:37:04 fe[nl]ix: No bills yet? 11:38:02 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:40:02 let me check 11:42:06 <_deepfire> Oh, why does asdf-install drag so many unrelated dependencies? 11:42:24 <_deepfire> Because it does not have the concept of a central system? 11:42:48 <_deepfire> And satisfies not only foo/foo.asd, but also foo/*.asd? 11:42:53 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:58 fe[nl]ix: No rush. I need to leave anyway. If you find any, please let me know by email. 11:44:08 <_deepfire> Yow, some of these deps just dragged in slime from 2008-08 era! 11:45:06 -!- plage [n=user@123.19.37.101] has left #lisp 11:46:06 <_deepfire> Ok, I made desire asdf-installable. 11:46:22 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has joined #lisp 11:46:32 <_deepfire> And, in the process, I've somwhat automated the process of release of signed tarballs. 11:46:41 <_deepfire> Meh. But you get the idea. 11:47:37 heh 11:48:08 benny` [n=benny@i577A84DB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:49 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:58 *p_l* builds simple tarballs without sophisticated scheme 11:52:04 -!- akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:15 Axius [n=ade@92.85.208.232] has joined #lisp 11:57:11 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:11 <_deepfire> ...it's actually installable, modulo the pending patch to ASDF. 11:58:24 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:59:07 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.208.232] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:03:45 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A10DE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:52 -!- benny` is now known as benny 12:06:58 -!- Younder [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:29 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-167-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:39 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-88-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:12:39 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-120.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:12:40 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:13:00 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-137.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:14:30 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 12:14:58 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:16:05 Ive sent a REPL off to do a factorial of a very large number. How do I stop it doing that? 12:16:17 (im in emacs/slime) 12:16:30 Cttl-c-c 12:16:41 ..that was meant to be Ctrl 12:17:36 Awesome, thanks. 12:21:50 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:22:33 snearch [n=olaf@92.225.50.115] has joined #lisp 12:22:45 lukego [n=lukegorr@adsl-188-155-43-237.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:23:36 does anyone know a Lispy equivalent to Squeak's "slang" language? that is, a CL subset that runs as normal Lisp but can also be automatically and straightforwardly translated into C. 12:24:01 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:26:41 lukego: do you mean compiled to C/ 12:26:46 lukego: thinlisp 12:26:48 there are many scheme->c compilers, but i'm not sure if that's what you mean 12:27:01 minion: thinlisp 12:27:02 thinlisp: ThinLisp is a Common Lisp implementation that compiles to very efficient C code. http://www.cliki.net/thinlisp 12:27:35 lukego: however, the project seems to have been abandoned 12:29:01 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:29:02 well, if this is for low-level implementation stuff, then it won't matter much whether it compiles to C something else, will it? It would be more about that subset not consing bignums (not causing garbage collection), ..., that sort of thing. 12:30:02 Allegro's GC is said to be implemented using this approach. 12:30:32 lichtblau: i figured out what was causing the arrow-keys to be transmitted in wrong form -- needed to turn on "transmit mode" 12:31:04 nikodemus: okay... Keep the patches/commits coming! 12:31:29 First thing I did with your commit was to also add page up, page down as aliases for C-v, M-v. 12:32:03 So I'm wondering whether all terminfo keys should be mapped systematically, even if we don't have a meaningful hemlock key mapping in mind yet. 12:32:14 dunno 12:32:17 http://gitorious.org/~nikodemus/qthemlock/nikodemus-qthemlock/commit/dddee742853d85357957144444053477c77044e0 12:32:35 Xach: ping 12:33:23 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-137.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:23 Then Hemlock would say "random-terminfo-key not bound" as an error. Instead it currently inserts the raw string for the key into the buffer, which is really unpleasant. 12:33:38 right 12:33:38 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:33:48 sounds good to me 12:34:04 (that patch adds F1-F2, and but more to the point the comment there about #k"Rubout" and #k"Delete" being the same keysym in Hemlock... i would rather like to separate them out, but i'm not sure of the issue involved) 12:34:18 s/issue/issues/ 12:34:43 apropos, i'll push stuff onto merge-foo branches and ping you when i think stuff is ready 12:34:44 Ah, I see. That looks like it may already cover most keys. 12:35:04 minion: memo for Xach: what's the right way to update posts for planet lisp? I need to change bits on my latest one, but I'd rather not wind up with duplicate entries like my REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE post. 12:35:04 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 12:36:05 *lichtblau* should have called the gitorious project just "hemlock" rather than "qthemlock" 12:36:45 project name doesn't matter for git, right? do you could just re-register and the history would be fine :) 12:36:56 s/do/so 12:39:56 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:40:25 froydnj: experimentally if you just change the content (without touching title & timestamp, etc) then it will magically update 12:40:40 or that's the way it has seemed to work for me at least -- magically :) 12:40:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:29 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-45-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:42:03 froydnj: your posts had different links 12:42:04 Xach, memo from froydnj: what's the right way to update posts for planet lisp? I need to change bits on my latest one, but I'd rather not wind up with duplicate entries like my REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE post. 12:42:08 nikodemus: I did that on my REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE post, but there seem to be two copies of that post on the front page now 12:42:13 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:14 Xach: permalinks? 12:42:21 froydnj: yeah 12:42:23 7D9? 12:42:48 akamaus [n=maus@95.106.66.154] has joined #lisp 12:42:59 Xach: hah! so they did 12:43:07 *froydnj* loves *print-base* bugs 12:43:19 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:44:57 *nikodemus* tries View Page Directory and suddendly understands the CMU convention for ^L 12:45:13 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-179.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:46:17 yes, it's very nice 12:46:24 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:41 nikodemus pasted "cmucl/compiler/ir1tran.lisp viewed thru hemlock's View Page Directory" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92530 12:47:13 poor man's outline mode! 12:50:27 -!- snearch [n=olaf@92.225.50.115] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:51:53 lichtblau: is there a hemlock prefix key that is reserved for user? 12:53:35 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 I don't know, but I'd suggest to use GNU/X Emacs conventions if in doubt. 12:58:45 have you thought about how to maintain/write new docs? (internals or otherwise) 13:00:46 oops, time! must run 13:00:47 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:02:08 sbcl doesn't seem to compile from clbuild on ubuntu 9.04 amd64 anymore. It crashes with "can't load .core for different runtime, sorry" 13:02:12 any ideas? 13:02:58 not really, you could look for a ".core" in the directory (some directoy ?) and delete it 13:03:20 vauge idea is that a .core has been found which is from some previous crash 13:03:29 and the crash was on a diff architecture machine 13:03:49 konichiwa: unlikely, it fails on two different machines... with the same architecture... and the last time, it compiled on this box 13:04:20 the developers could have accidently included a bogus .core this time ? 13:04:29 why not just delete the .core file, see what happens ? 13:04:54 strange, this box seems to have two .core files, the other one didn't have that 13:04:59 but you're probably building using a package manager, not from a source tar 13:04:59 madnificent: SBCL_HOME confusion 13:05:28 lichtblau: care to elaborate? ^_^ 13:05:54 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:08:28 madnificent: check what $SBCL_HOME points to 13:08:59 lichtblau: nothing, what should it point to? 13:09:07 s/what/where/ 13:09:40 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:10:26 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 13:10:27 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.132] has joined #lisp 13:11:10 don't know, but that's where SBCL tries to find the core file, unless --core is specified 13:14:39 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 doesn't seem to fix anything 13:15:46 it's something of the past few months, probably... I've successfully compiled sbcl on this box a few months ago 13:18:05 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 fiveop [n=fiveop@p579EA425.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:03 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:30 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:19:52 -!- Fury_ [n=Fury@p57904A81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 13:20:07 G'morning all. 13:22:20 moin nyef 13:22:53 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:22:53 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:24:05 _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:27:30 -!- nicklevinehome [n=chatzill@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust14.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:47 felix: thinlisp looks like exactly what I mean. except that it doesn't seem to exist. :) 13:31:35 or is that just the impression the website gives.. 13:32:51 I take it back. downloaded the distro and it's 50KLOC of Lisp 13:35:24 Heh. sb-aclrepl fails four tests, because the "bignum" it uses for the tests has an integer-length of 61. 13:35:45 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 anyone have experience with thinlisp? 13:38:04 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:16 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:59:21 -!- dys` is now known as dys 14:01:33 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:03:27 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-177-10.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:06:37 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:59 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:10:39 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["=> home"] 14:13:32 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:16:27 what is thinlisp? 14:16:59 also: if anyone from clbuild is here, shout my name. I'd like to get the non-compiling issue fixed 14:22:03 lukego: there's also that thing from Scheme48, called Prescheme or something like that. no consing, no closures, compiles to C 14:22:08 madnificent: unfortunately things don't fix themselves usually. I already gave you the information needed to start debugging things, and don't know more than that. 14:22:44 madnificent: keep in mind that 'clbuild compile-implementation' is just a small wrapper around make.sh and install.sh. So forget about clbuild in this context, and run make.sh yourself to debug things. 14:22:51 lichtblau: and I don't know any internals to fix it with that information... 14:23:13 I don't understand it... sbcl runs on the box, so it should be able to compile a newer sbcl, no? 14:23:26 I thought that was the prerequisite to compile sbcl 14:24:22 no internals involved. this is all stuff covered by sbcl/INSTALL. 14:24:36 ? 14:24:58 redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:02 *madnificent* shouldn't need to care about this stuff (at least, this is something that only seems to happen in lisp) 14:25:12 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 14:28:06 madnificent: do you get the same problem when you run make.sh or do you not? 14:29:49 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:29:53 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 14:31:10 cmm-: it seems to start compiling then... so I guess not 14:31:15 (still takes a while now though) 14:32:39 cmm-: isn't that supposed to do the same thing clbuild does? 14:32:50 nyef: you get a build out of that tree?! 14:33:56 Yeah, to the point where I'm staring at a contrib build log where sb-aclrepl attempts to divide by an unknown immediate object. 14:34:57 weird. I get Memory fault at (nil) (pc=0x2000015c, sp=0x7ffff51a0c58) in make-target-2. 14:35:13 or Memory fault at 0x20000140 (pc=0x2000015c, sp=0x31ffc58) on darwin. 14:35:22 Interesting. That PC is in the assembly-routines. 14:36:14 that's the entry point for sb!c:unwind. 14:36:22 Un... yeah, just found it. 14:36:25 madnificent: that's the idea if I understand correctly, yes 14:36:33 Not the entry point, but somewhere in there. 14:36:47 entry point is 13c according to my map. 14:37:10 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 madnificent: one thing you could do now is insert a call to env into make.sh and then compare the output when run by itself and under clbuild 14:37:39 My map says #X2000011E: THROW, #X20000140: SB!C:UNWIND. 14:38:02 How odd. 14:38:06 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:38:33 reproducibly. 14:38:47 Do you have threading enabled or something? 14:38:49 I'm on commit b681ff3a1bbbecaa173b57f67417fef28ae23f16. 14:38:55 oh right. 14:39:06 thanks. 14:39:14 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-109-247.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:27 not on my linux box. 14:39:36 There's one more commit since then, but it's only changes to sb-introspect. 14:39:39 It's default now, remember? 14:39:44 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:47 At least, on linux. 14:40:12 doh. 14:41:01 also, can you look at backtrace.c:613? 14:41:35 there's a random "ra" hanging there, I suppose that's ~pc? 14:42:27 Oops, yes. 14:42:30 cmm-: a call to env? 14:42:36 See what I mean about it needing factoring? 14:43:14 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 14:44:11 I replaced that with pc, and added a space between $ and N_FIXNUM... in assem.S (gas doesn't like it otherwise on darwin) 14:45:33 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-179-51-253.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:55 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:15 davazp [n=user@16.Red-79-150-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:48 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A84DB.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:53:58 jmckitrick [n=user@adsl-176-183-44.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:54 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 That space thing seems weird, really. It's not needed for NIL, but NIL expands to LISPOBJ(...). 14:58:08 ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has joined #lisp 14:59:02 chris2 [n=chris@p5B169DB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:18 nyef: remember my assembler/implementation idea? It now even got a name (completely through freak occurence) 15:00:50 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:02:57 p_l: Cool. 15:03:36 Why ``bastard programming language''? Because C, Assembler and Common Lisp went once to a gangbang party and forgot protection. CL had the guts to take care of the kid. 15:04:07 cause that's what the idea resembles ^^; 15:04:09 Do you really want a programming language which some office networks will censor? :) 15:04:16 *programming language name 15:04:34 rsynnott: not when it gets properly "obfuscated" :P 15:04:44 p_l: what's your 15 second pitch? 15:05:16 And even some crap-er third-level institutions 15:05:32 (there's one in dublin which at least used to do internet filtering for naughty words...) 15:05:32 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:05:39 pkhuong: the language is basically my wip DSL in CL for generating small fragments of C-like code with CL like syntax (with macros) 15:05:47 so scexp? 15:05:53 rsynnott: Complete with the inability to obtain maps of scunthorpe? 15:06:04 nyef: of course 15:06:26 pkhuong: with code generator and assembler included 15:07:00 (supposedly, Scunthorpe were locked out of their own local authority computer system for a while for that reason...) 15:07:40 Yeah, I don't know if that's true or not, but it's still funny. 15:07:44 p_l: what are you using it for? 15:07:57 nyef: I've certainly seen similar examples in real life 15:08:56 rsynnott: generating code to run in embedded space - microcontrollers and cold-boot firmware (maybe stuff like very-low-level implementation details of higher-level VMs as well) 15:09:33 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.124.207.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:33 ah, cool 15:09:56 also got me wondering on generating linux executables this way, though that's more of a toy usage unless someone is willing to use it for something like SBCL in place of C ;-) 15:11:05 oh wow. most-positive-fixnum isn't defined in terms of fixnum-tag-bits. 15:11:25 Eek. 15:11:37 that explains a lot of type issues (: 15:12:36 There's also something stupidly 32-bit in the runtime about integer boxing. Literal (1+ most-positive-fixnum-for-32bit-systems) somewhere. 15:12:38 p_l: I'm still waiting for the 15 second pitch, btw. 15:14:01 'most-positive-fixnum-for-32bit-systems' - heheh 15:14:17 'most-positive-fixnum-for-those-OTHER-computers' :) 15:14:47 Okay, it's actually "if (-0x20000000 < n && n < 0x20000000)" in alloc_number in alloc.c. 15:15:00 *rsynnott* seems to remember an issue where when building sbcl with clisp, array max length became contaminated with the most-positive-fixnum from clisp 15:15:21 nyef: yeah :| 15:15:41 rsynnott: there were more hilarious errors than that 15:16:00 the boole constants being utterly, utterly messed up, giving you different answers in compiled and toplevel calls 15:16:26 just fortunate that that most-positive-fixnum was smaller than the sbcl one, not larger, really... 15:16:30 oh, dear 15:16:31 Even if we don't change the fixnum width, most of the cleanups should still go in. 15:18:19 And, dear god, room.lisp needs a thorough going-over. 15:18:35 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has left #lisp 15:19:19 -!- jmckitrick [n=user@adsl-176-183-44.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:22:12 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-254-12.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:26:58 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:29:32 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 15:35:33 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 15:39:02 -!- akamaus [n=maus@95.106.66.154] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:41:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:41:44 nicklevinehome [n=chatzill@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust14.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:09 YuleAtha` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:43:42 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:44:23 pkhuong: sorry, not bavailable for now ;-) 15:44:44 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-62-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:44:56 madnificent: yes, the unix command "env". it dumps all the environment variables and their values to standard output 15:45:11 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:45:23 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:45:36 do not fear teh script, mangle teh script! 15:45:51 pkhuong: basically, a retargetable macro assembler which can be easily embedded into a CL environment 15:47:44 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-9-89.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:47 Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:00 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-4-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:52:24 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:52:36 nyef: and now that I've fixed m-p-f, (lambda () (random (1+ m-p-f))) won't compile 15:52:44 davazp` [n=user@26.Red-83-37-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:32 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:53:52 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:54:59 -!- davazp [n=user@16.Red-79-150-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:55:41 are there CL libraries for handling .avi files? 15:55:48 cmm-: it seems like my standard environment doesn't set SBCL, nor SBCL_HOME... the installer trough clbuild does set it... (strange that that makes it crash) 15:55:58 a (brief) search on CLiki didn't turn up anything 15:56:14 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has joined #lisp 15:57:21 madnificent: did you already have a clbuild/target directory before trying to recompile? 15:57:29 -!- l_a_m is now known as lam_vacances 15:57:42 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.86] has quit ["off"] 15:58:37 lichtblau: kind of hard to check that now, I think so 15:59:46 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:00:06 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:00:13 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:26 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:27 pkhuong pasted "Spot the bug in two-arg-=" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92536 16:01:04 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-254-12.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:09 oh great. the disassembly is too large for a paste 16:01:13 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:28 pkhuong annotated #92536 "disassembly" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92536#1 16:01:53 pkhuong annotated #92536 "continued..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92536#2 16:02:16 lisppaste: indeed, it seems to work without that directory (at least, at first sight) 16:02:44 madnificent: Mind your nick-completion. 16:02:50 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 sellout [n=greg@64.243.27.4] has joined #lisp 16:07:44 ... 1152921504606846976 is (ash 1 60), which bears a resemblence to the old value of (1+ most-positive-fixnum). 16:07:50 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 16:09:10 woah. that sounds like yet another constant lookup bug 16:10:17 nyef: lisppaste deserves attention too! and I apparently need more sleep, I guess 16:10:53 lichtblau: so, you were right :) (at least, it is still building) 16:10:55 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:11:06 Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:48 * (1+ most-positive-fixnum) => 1152921504606846976 16:11:59 * most-positive-fixnum => 4611686018427387903 16:12:37 Lovely. 16:12:41 (1+ *) ? 16:13:00 doesn't work either!? 16:13:30 yay, bug in bignums 16:13:32 which lisp? 16:13:39 nicklevinehome: hacked up sbcl 16:13:54 whatabout (1- (1+ most-positive-fixnum))? 16:14:13 that works. 16:14:30 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.30.106] has joined #lisp 16:14:35 in what way? 16:14:42 well, fsvo works. It's not an identity. 16:15:59 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:18:32 *nyef* fixes allocate-static-vector. 16:18:45 akamaus [n=maus@94.231.112.177] has joined #lisp 16:19:00 oohh. generic-+ 16:19:17 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:29 malsyned [n=malsyned@24-151-81-214.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 If anybody knows the maintainer of sbcl.org, the online manual has a broken page. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Initialization-and-Exit-Hooks.html 16:21:15 missed the raw (shr .. 2) (: 16:21:20 aw, I bet there are bare constants there that I missed in the src/compiler/ cleanup 16:22:04 froydnj: Look at it this way, we're finding -everywhere- it happens in either generic code or the x86-64 backend. 16:22:17 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.172.199] has joined #lisp 16:22:32 froydnj: With a reasonable degree of confidence in our coverage, too. 16:22:57 yup 16:23:13 found some more with SSE packs. 16:23:49 It's so nice that it actually builds now, though. 16:24:01 rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:04 building is a big step 16:24:08 extremely; makes bug hunting almost fun 16:24:16 Section 4.1.2 in the manual is a blank page as well. 16:24:28 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 16:25:07 malsyned: broken? 16:26:20 Apart from a missing doctype, I'm not sure what's broken. 16:26:43 eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 16:27:39 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:27:40 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:27:53 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:14 pkhuong: really? when I navigate to http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Diagnostic-Severity.html I get an empty page. maybe something's broken on my end. 16:28:39 malsyned: WFM 16:29:25 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:25 malsyned: the w3c agrees with me. 16:29:28 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:28 oh weird, yeah, it work for me from other machines. Sorry, false alarm. 16:30:06 Never seen Firefox lose like this before. 16:31:25 I think those pages may have been served up wrong the first time I went to them. Shift+Refresh re-downloads them and now they're fine. 16:31:54 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 wee (: 16:35:19 I'm trying to write some cross-implementation lisp, to use ASDF libraries on SBCL and allegro built-ins on ACL. Is there a library that has good examples of how to structure the #+/#- statements? Or is there any generally accepted technique? I'm scared of having the code be an unreadable mess of #+/#- 16:35:20 snearch [n=olaf@g225051059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 ryepup: cl-ppcre does that 16:36:45 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 16:36:54 ryepup: there's a #+use-acl-api or something similar sprinkled in it 16:37:05 ryepup: also, any screenshots of your project? 16:37:10 Xach: thanks, I'll take a look 16:37:21 Xach: different project, and not yet 16:37:25 will make a post shortly 16:39:38 oh yuck... mod arith. 16:41:34 modular arithmetic is broken as well? 16:44:17 *Xach* wonders if there are any exciting lisp meetings coming up 16:44:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 nyef: tons of 61 bit assumptions. 16:47:00 I'm renaming all the smod61 to modfx 16:48:27 Joy. 16:48:34 you guys should do a 64-bit alpha port while you're in the area :-) 16:49:35 Heh. Better idea: We should do a new version of the x86-64 port with the same memory model as the alpha port. 16:49:50 that would be awesome, actually. 16:50:00 what does that mean? 16:50:13 Krystof: 64 bit numbers but 32 bit pointers. 16:50:17 32-bit tagged data values, 64-bit machine words. 16:50:27 ... ok ... 16:50:39 oO(you guys are nuts) 16:50:44 Xach: my main source for that kind of information is plo, but you kind of know that one rather well 16:50:52 why is it a simple-array-signed-byte-61 instead of simple-array-fixnum? 16:51:14 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:35 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 16:51:48 *nyef* has no idea, but seems to recall that the values in such an array are stored tagged. 16:52:07 right, so simple-array-fixnum and simple-array-unsigned-fixnum, no? 16:52:25 Sounds good to me. 16:53:37 oh, right... smod30 and smod61 16:53:52 I'll leave that as smod30 and modfx :| 16:56:15 smod30? 16:57:06 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 16:57:09 32-bit pointers on x86-64 would be "awesome". 16:57:10 ooh... bah, fix that up later 16:57:45 nyef: thinko, I thought we had some sort of 32-bit-but-for-fixnum mod arith. 16:58:12 Yeah, "awesome" in a "we finally get to define a symbol for this wonky memory model other than #!+alpha" kind of way. 16:58:55 awesome in a good numerical perf and memory footprint kind of way. 16:59:04 That too. 16:59:13 Modulo working representation selection. 16:59:48 What happens when you have to deal with high addresses? 17:00:14 luis`: You use SAPs. The heap is constrained to be in the low two gigs of address space. 17:00:33 nyef: or the low 4 G? 17:00:42 Something like that. 17:00:49 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 I thought there was sign-extension issues, though? 17:01:12 s/was/were/ 17:01:23 lots of movzx. 17:01:48 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:02:24 move the tags to to the high bits, and address qwords ;) 17:02:56 Or owords for 64 G of heap... 17:03:08 So, the other question is, after this do we attack the possibility of wider fixnums on 32-bit systems? 17:03:28 really? how? 17:03:47 Double the alignment requirement for non-cons heap objects. 17:04:01 And lose instance-pointers. 17:04:09 (They become other-pointers.) 17:04:26 align non-cons to 16 bytes? That'd wfm. 17:04:27 I think it was instance-pointers. 17:04:50 Basically, you want 2-word alignment on conses because anything else would be a waste. 17:05:10 "efficient" conses are a waste of tag and design space, imo. 17:05:24 And doubling the alignment on non-conses means you can get an extra lowtag bit for non-cons pointers. 17:06:02 (Because your lowtag space is actually constrained by your pointer alignment.) 17:06:17 yeah. 17:07:03 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:08:05 No, it turns out that a huge amount of space in cold-core is conses. 17:08:36 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:11 Yeah, it's instance-pointer that we lose. 17:10:58 The low two bits of the lowtag end up selecting between {fixnum, otherimm, fixnum, pointer}, just as we have now with wider-fixnums on 64-bit. 17:10:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@64.243.27.4] has quit [] 17:11:28 And then the pointers are {list, fun, list, other} on the next two bits. 17:12:06 and otherimm is only used for characters? 17:12:17 Header tags, too. 17:12:21 ah k. 17:12:28 so we can't stuff instance back in there. 17:12:35 Afraid not. 17:12:43 Otherimm basically means "this is a widetag". 17:13:38 -!- eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-159-64.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:08 a huge amount of space is conses, but we don't really know why 17:14:26 *nyef* blames toplevels and package data. 17:14:27 at least, I don't 17:14:45 if only there were some helpful heap analysis stuff 17:15:20 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 17:15:27 if it's mostly proper lists we could cdr-code them 17:15:41 or not, and just use vectors. 17:15:45 while messing around with PCL, I discovered that 0.1% of heap size is class precedence lists 17:15:47 cdr-codes -really- feel like a waste of tag space. 17:16:12 specifically, 32kb out of a 45mb core 17:16:33 Admittedly, we can get that tag space on 64-bit systems if we don't widen the fixnums. 17:16:36 But still... 17:16:49 tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:17:01 Greetings lispers and Merry Christmas. 17:17:13 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:17:15 tmh: Happy Christmas. 17:17:22 we don't celebrate Christmas in #lisp, just Xofmas. 17:17:32 hello tmh 17:17:43 Adlai: that is about 4% of the conses 17:17:43 'morning 17:17:48 *nyef* notes that early-objdef is defining the lowtags in terms of n-word-bits and not n-lowtag-bits. 17:17:59 so, interesting, but not the lowest-hanging fruit 17:18:07 Hey LiamH. I'm thinking about moving the lisp-unit repository over to github, any objections? I'd still mirror on repo. 17:18:39 tmh: I don't suppose it matters, but I'm curious, why the move? 17:19:02 LiamH: All the kool kids are on github? ;-) 17:19:09 LiamH: Seriously, I like the interface better. 17:19:12 *LiamH* is not cool 17:19:33 tmh: I like the interface less, but each to his own I guess 17:20:40 tmh: I'm going to put together a git "superproject" (i.e., a git repo with submodules) that will include lisp-unit, but I don't think it matters where each submodule is. 17:20:42 LiamH: Hmm, ok. I'll reconsider and spend some time looking at each again. I've finally put together a basic website for my company and decided that I could host my projects on github and link to it from my website. 17:20:55 snowbeard [n=user@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:08 milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.42] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 LiamH: Interesting. I'm not sure I have enough git foo to understand what that is. 17:21:36 tmh: Go ahead and move it if you want, it's your call. I think that with a mirro on repo.or.cz the move will be transparent. 17:22:01 -!- nicklevinehome [n=chatzill@cpc1-cmbg14-2-0-cust14.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]"] 17:22:05 In fact, you might be able to just mirror on github, have the best of both worlds with less work? 17:22:18 dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:22 LiamH: I had a request to add fixtures to lisp-unit, not add so much as incorporate them from a guy that already did it. I updated the cliki page to reference it. 17:22:38 tmh: fixtures? 17:22:58 I wonder how many conses are in specializer-direct-method lists 17:22:58 LiamH: I was thinking about the mirroring strategy. I'll do whatever works best for all involved. 17:23:38 LiamH: I'm not fully knowledgable, but basically it seems like test templates. reduce redundant test writing. Check the links on the cliki page. 17:24:22 LiamH: I'm going to add the fixtures in a way that makes them optional for use and doesn't effect anything existing. For that matter, you shouldn't have to use them unless you want to. 17:24:43 tmh: I've written a generalized array (vector, matrix) utilities and am building GSLL on top of it. This introduces yet another repo, so I figure at 4 (gsll, lisp-unit, fsbv, gsd) it's time to bundle them up to make it easier to download. 17:24:47 huh, not that many: only 8k 17:24:55 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:24:55 LiamH: Sorry, not add, incorporate. This is in no way my original work and the license in the file will reflect the original author. 17:25:05 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:16 tmh: Sounds interesting, I will take a look at it. 17:25:23 dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 17:26:29 LiamH: I saw your discussion of that but didn't follow in detail. The generalized array utilities are an abstraction level above or below GSLL? 17:26:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 nyef pasted "Does this look good for defining lowtags?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92543 17:27:53 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.132] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:00 tmh: Actually below. So CL arrays, arrays of arrays, lists of lists, lists of arrays, etc. are all "grid structured data". Also now foreign arrays and GSLL marrays. Then things like transpose, concatenate, diagonal etc. are completely general. 17:28:16 nyef: sure. 17:28:31 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:28:38 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 17:28:54 tmh: I completely don't understand the link "update to test-fixture" 17:29:38 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-204.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:36 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 tmh: The first link about dogfooding doesn't move me; I've generally avoided making common definitions in my tests, so that each stands alone. If you want to avoid duplication of code, just make a macro, no? 17:32:10 LiamH: I haven't worked through the code in detail and am not commited to incorporating it verbatim. What I like is the idea of reducing redundant test definitions. I actually have written macros that expand into tests for lisp-unit and would like to generalize that, if it can be done is a useful way. 17:32:14 tmh: well each to his/her/its own, the addition to lisp-unit is fine, but I don't think I'll use it. 17:32:27 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:42 tmh: of course I may be missing something; I'll have to think about it some more 17:32:43 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:32:47 LiamH: In any case, it will start out as a branch and only get merged back if it proves useful. 17:32:55 Merged back to master. 17:33:10 tmh: right. Who is the author of those additions? 17:34:49 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:35:46 LiamH: I can never find the author's name. I tracked it down the other day but can't remember it. In addition to the fixtures, he made some reporting and timing extensions. I'm going to work through the stuff and incorporate the useful bits. 17:36:14 tmh: good, thank you for your work. 17:36:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:36:40 LiamH: Tim Jasko 17:36:59 tmh: Ok, I don't know him 17:37:38 Seems to be related to CUSP in some way. 17:38:13 I believe you have misattributed that 17:38:15 Umm, sorry, Cusp. 17:38:18 Heh 17:38:22 perhaps Sergey Kolos did it 17:38:53 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:54 Jasko: Ah, there is a .project file in the code with your name. 17:40:07 heh. I stuck my name in some of the internal ids Cusp uses, so that could be from any user. 17:40:23 It's odd that the author's name it not readily available from the blog. Or I'm too dense to find it. 17:40:50 Oops. Botched the fix for allocate-static-vector. 17:41:11 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:52 gutzofter ??? 17:42:04 slash_ [n=unknown@p4FF0A88A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:57 That's the best I can find and may be what I end up using in the copyright. 17:43:10 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:33 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:44:12 Copyright (c) 2009 [gutzofter@yahoo.com] seems to be what he uses too. 17:44:52 Yep, That will probably be acceptable. 17:47:16 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-240-254.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:47:18 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.30.106] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:48:49 jmckitrick [n=user@adsl-176-183-44.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:02 -!- jmckitrick [n=user@adsl-176-183-44.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:09 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has joined #lisp 17:55:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:55:52 HG` [n=HG@85.8.72.59] has joined #lisp 17:58:38 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:58:41 pkhuong: Did you pull the "clean up remaining misuse" patch yet, or can I safely amend it? 18:00:36 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B169DB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 18:04:21 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:58 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:18 nope, I'm still on b681ff3a1bbbecaa173b57f67417fef28ae23f16 18:05:48 there's a thinko in the make-array-header fix. (make-ea ... :base ... :scale ...) isn't very useful (: 18:07:15 anyone run rucksack on ccl ? 18:09:53 I know drewc has dones real work /w rucksack, but on sbcl. 18:10:06 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12:16 looks like some threading stuff are (aquire/release lock) 18:12:24 *are misssing 18:13:02 Amended commit pushed. 18:15:23 Ah, I can amend the introspect fix, too? 18:15:35 sure. 18:15:51 Now, now do I do that, given that it's not HEAD...? 18:16:18 not sure. I just save diffs reset and reapply 18:16:37 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 nyef: git rebase thecommityouwanttoedit^ # note the ^ 18:17:31 In the editor, change the commit's line to say "edit". Then you can "commit --amend" and finally don't forget to "rebase --continue". 18:17:44 I was about to say, but don't you need an "-i"? 18:17:50 madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has joined #lisp 18:17:52 Krystof: oops, yeah 18:17:53 thatdavidmiller [n=david@cpc2-rdng1-0-0-cust282.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:55 Ah, okay, so stash stuff first. 18:18:02 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-240-254.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:06 Or just commit the fix, then in rebase move the fix up to the other one and mark it as squash. 18:18:33 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 18:19:49 There we go, whitespace noise cleaned up. 18:22:15 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has joined #lisp 18:23:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-23-140.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 18:23:45 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:23:57 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has joined #lisp 18:24:27 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25:32 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.249.165] has joined #lisp 18:26:12 -!- YuleAtha` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:21 YuleAtha` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:26:57 -!- davazp` [n=user@26.Red-83-37-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:02 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:27:15 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:27:58 davazp` [n=user@236.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:55 having just tried vng, I'll never again amend a commit using rebase manually though, now that I know about 'vng amend-record' and its lovely darcs-like behaviour 18:30:12 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 18:31:11 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:21 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit ["so long.."] 18:31:52 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:34:14 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:38:52 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.232] has joined #lisp 18:39:00 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:26 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:41:28 alec [n=alec@adsl-179-22-176.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:42:19 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:31 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-204.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:44:41 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:45:04 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B1F03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:46:39 madsy [n=madsy@78-26-25-57.network.trollfjord.no] has joined #lisp 18:47:02 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 18:59:00 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:21 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:32 -!- thatdavidmiller [n=david@cpc2-rdng1-0-0-cust282.winn.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 19:06:13 addled [n=adl@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust1291.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:20 benny` [n=benny@i577A84DB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:59 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:11:46 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.84] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:12:39 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:12:39 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:07 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:16:25 PassingStranger [n=Horst@p54BF600C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:27 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-59-228.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:21:34 with working single-float array VOPs, even more tests are doing well (: 19:22:13 aintme [n=user@121.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:22:52 Nice. 19:24:22 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:36 am i going to have a difficulty indexing on a pointer to a opaque data 19:24:44 using cffi 19:25:10 i can't work out whether its possible or not, because cffi seems to like having types 19:25:31 Well, it's an integer, isn't it? 19:25:37 void *. 19:25:53 that should be fine then 19:26:01 just never came across them before 19:27:51 nyef: is *static-space-free-pointer* still measured in words? 19:30:33 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:47 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:09 how to clever dispatch on ist of symbols if size of list is not fixed ? 19:31:17 using CLOS of course 19:31:20 s/ist/list 19:31:55 milanj, maybe Pascal Costanza's new ``Filtered Functions'' could help 19:32:02 (they're a CLOS MOP extension) 19:32:14 yes, i saw that couple of days ago on c.c.l. 19:32:14 http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html 19:32:55 heh, and someone post there that there is no real usage of that library 19:33:39 CLOS is useless too, you can use structs and hardcode dispatch with typecase. 19:33:42 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-88-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:34:13 yes, i didnt want to use *case things .. 19:34:24 i will look at filtered fun things 19:34:36 milanj: I don't think even filtered functions are right for you 19:34:43 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:34:49 you might need a prolog unification engine 19:34:51 you could use a filter which "interns" the lists, and then have methods EQL-specialized on "interned" lists 19:34:59 depending on what kind of mactching you need 19:35:18 well 19:35:18 or that. I think there's a cl-unification library. 19:35:25 minion, unification? 19:35:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``unification''. 19:35:27 I don't think cl-unification works 19:35:34 but there's PAIP 19:35:47 i just wanted clean design because it's planty of this combination 19:36:01 and it will be ugly with *case 19:36:06 milanj: you'll have to explain what the matching is like 19:36:12 are you basically doing EQUAL? 19:36:18 eql 19:36:22 erm 19:36:29 eql doesn't compare the elements of a list 19:36:39 i'm comparing symbols 19:36:40 CLOS does EQL standard 19:36:40 eql on lists is like eq 19:36:47 that are elements of list 19:36:48 milanj: lists or symbols? 19:36:50 and list is argument 19:36:56 rahul, yes 19:37:12 but lenght is not fixed 19:37:16 milanj: is your test the same as EQUAL? 19:37:21 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:24 do you know what EQUAL does? 19:37:25 also, how do you dispatch on the list? is it that you dispatch on the first matching symbol in the list, or do you generate an "effective dispatch" from all the symbols? 19:37:33 yes 19:37:41 hmm 19:37:58 is it a list prefix match? 19:38:19 pkhuong: No, it's an unboxed word-aligned byte address that, when viewed in Lisp, is scaled by n-fixnum-tag-bits. 19:38:50 all right. 19:38:57 Where are you looking? 19:39:05 allocate-static-vector. 19:39:10 Already fixed. 19:39:13 k. 19:40:51 that leaves me with hard failures in {alien,callback}.impure.lisp (but that could just be general os x wonkiness), foreign-stack-alignment, and core.test.sh 19:40:58 (might be darwin for core too) 19:41:32 nyef: my patches are at . I'm going offline for a couple hours. 19:42:14 rahul, nevermind, i didnt though of EQUAL .. and some primitive pattern matching should solve my problem 19:42:35 just uploaded another version. 19:42:52 milanj: you can use a trie (discrimination net) like PAIP does 19:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:43:20 pkhuong: Cool, thanks. 19:43:43 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:44 each level of the trie is an alist or hashtable mapping the symbol to either a leaf or the next node that maps values for the next item in the list 19:43:59 rahul, actually i recived PAIP couple of days ago didng get to it yet, thanks for tip 19:44:04 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 milanj: look at the part where they do the pattern matching dispatch 19:44:40 you don't need the wildcard capability that PAIP has, but the rest will be useful 19:45:04 you can even find the code on the internet, actually 19:45:15 maybe you could just use it as-ius 19:45:18 as-is 19:48:31 ahh, i cant ever find that chapter :) 19:48:34 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 19:52:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:02 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:53:07 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has joined #lisp 19:53:21 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 the matcher is just section 6.2 19:55:31 but that doesn't let you declare cases separatel 19:55:31 y 19:55:35 -!- dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f735889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:56:21 section 11.2's <- operator kind of does that, for a more complex program 19:56:48 xt-pattern has some code to automatically derive precedence between cases. 19:57:19 and Xof's paper on custom specialisers has code for pattern matching via CLOS methods. 19:57:19 he doesn't have variables actually 19:57:25 so, modules, is using just require/provide a bad idea? 19:57:35 he just needs EQUAL dispatch really 19:57:37 Xantoz: I'd use asdf. 19:57:59 rahul: you can still avoid redundant work in the dispatch. 19:58:18 PAIP looks like it goes into unification before it gets to separate definition of cases 19:58:28 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:34 pkhuong: that's just a trie for this case 19:59:01 -!- davazp` [n=user@236.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:03 pkhuong: just thought the decentralisedness of require/provide was kinda cute =p 19:59:06 rahul: that's if you fix the traversal order. 19:59:27 nyef: erh.. yeah, (inst sar res (1- n-fixnum-tag-bits)) *cough* 19:59:43 pkhuong: sure, it's a list, so it has an obvious traversal order 19:59:47 Xantoz: The problem with REQUIRE is that it's not portably defined to do anything useful. 19:59:55 rahul: car and cdr, which one do you recurse on first? 20:00:09 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:00:24 Xantoz: The problems with ASDF are well-known, but most people use it anyway. 20:00:38 pkhuong: not trees, lists 20:00:47 rahul: same question. 20:00:55 even lists of atoms. 20:01:08 pkhuong: well, CAR is more efficient 20:01:10 really? 20:01:12 nil too is an atom. 20:01:16 yes 20:01:28 because you know there's no further descent on the CAR 20:01:31 nyef: ah 20:01:35 the CDR might continue or not 20:01:45 so what? You emit the code you want. 20:01:53 pkhuong: I'm utterly failing to see the validity of your bit-bash changes. 20:02:13 nyef: me too. Wait a minute. 20:02:21 pkhuong: yeah, which is search of a trie :) 20:02:21 no, no. It's good. 20:02:22 word-shift instead of n-word-bits, maybe? 20:02:28 nyef: right. 20:03:11 or mod n-w-bits. 20:03:15 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:03:15 rahul: absolutely not. 20:03:18 a portable require/provide would be niceish 20:03:37 Oh. n-word-bytes, perhaps? 20:04:09 pkhuong: this is such a trivial case, I can't even figure out why you're thinking it's so complex 20:04:18 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:25 there IS NO precedence and the most efficient traversal is obvious 20:04:29 dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:45 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-7-88-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:00 -!- HG` [n=HG@85.8.72.59] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:01 rahul: sure, there's no precedence in that case. However, it's not true that treating the car first is always the right choice. 20:05:03 redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:31 Dispatching on the cdr first can be useful to test for nil-ness. 20:06:28 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 I'd rather go for a sure-shot efficient traversal than one that will be at best the same and at worst O(n) 20:06:42 nyef: ... right. mod n-w-bytes or word-shift. 20:06:51 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 rahul: huh? (null (cdr x)) is just as O(1) as (eql (car x) 'foo). 20:07:04 pkhuong: exactly 20:07:09 so why not use it? 20:07:36 Depending on the cases, testing the cdr may give you much better info that dispatching on the car. 20:07:41 pkhuong: because you've only considered best case 20:07:58 the patterns are static, there is no other case to consider. 20:08:15 the patterns ARE cases 20:08:21 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@adsl-074-232-249-027.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:09:05 either way you have to test both, but if you recurse on the CDR first, you're just matching in reverse order and needing to use a stack to track that 20:09:22 uh? "recurse"? 20:09:23 stack? 20:09:29 You're generating a search tree. 20:09:47 You can dispatch on either the car or the cdr for a bunch of atomic equality tests. 20:09:48 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["reboot"] 20:10:01 *why* would it always be better to first dispatch on the car? 20:10:09 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 20:10:12 not better, but never worse 20:10:16 why? 20:10:26 because at best, the CDR test is the same 20:10:32 the same what? 20:10:37 the same complexity 20:10:43 the same kind of test 20:10:44 they're all the same complexity. 20:10:50 we're only considering atomic equality tests. 20:11:23 you've added an extra level to the trie nodes then 20:11:24 -!- bipt` [i=bpt@cpe-173-095-174-230.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:11:32 one for CARs and one for CDRs 20:11:35 you're the one who brought tries up. 20:12:30 oh, if you compile it, then the speculative execution of your CPU should end up preparing one test while the other is going anyway 20:12:32 I pointed out that tries fix the traversal order, and you're telling me that no other traversal order than the one fixed by the trie can be efficiently handled by tries. 20:12:34 no matter which order you do them 20:12:58 that's not the point. 20:13:45 Even if you compile to native code, some orderings result in much fewer queries (and thus time) on average. 20:14:38 you have to test both either way 20:14:58 unless you want to be "unsafe", I guess 20:15:42 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 just assume that it has to be one of the cases defined and if there's only 1 3-element list, for example, don't even test the CAR when you find a 3rd CDR of NIL 20:16:01 Take the cases (a) (b) (c) (d) (a a) (b b) (c c) (d d). If you first dispatch on whether the cdr is NIL 20:16:30 That's a much more interesting test than any of the tests on cars. 20:16:48 rahul: once there's only a single case left, it's easier to generate efficient code. 20:17:17 especially wrt branch prediction, never mind the fact that you probably expect the vast majority of inputs to match one of the cases. 20:17:53 hmm. test CDR = NIL results in a 2-way fan-out followed by 4-way or 4-way 20:17:55 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:18:18 dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 while if you dispatch on the car 20:18:23 test CAR first results in 4-way followed by 2-way 20:18:34 you'll have to repeat all the tests for cdr is nil. A lot of code duplication. 20:19:08 if you dispatch on CDR first, you have to repeat all the test for CAR is A, B, C, or D 20:19:14 I don't see that it's much different 20:20:18 4x null test vs. 2x (case a b c d) 20:20:34 bipt` [i=bpt@cpe-173-095-174-230.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:46 depends on how efficient you can make the CASE code, spacewise 20:21:49 if you have good hash codes that don't change between compile and run, then it can be a dispatch on two different bits of the hash code 20:22:08 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-7-88-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:22:25 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:26 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:22:29 that's awful for prediction; might as well hash on the whole list. 20:23:06 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23:28 so you're screwed either way :) 20:23:32 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-7-88-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:35 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:49 Count the number of tests in the whole search tree if you first dispatch on CAR 20:24:57 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:24:57 4 + 2 + 1 + 4 + 1 20:25:10 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:19 vs 2 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 1 ? 20:25:28 car: a, b, c, d (4). For each branch, you have: cdr: nil, consp (2*4). For the consp branch, you have again 1 test (4). Total of 16 tests. 20:25:51 -!- aintme [n=user@121.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [""""] 20:27:06 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 20:27:06 If you first dispatch on cdr: nil, consp (2). In the nil branch, car: a, b, c, d (4). In the cons branch, 4* test for the car and nil (so, worst case, 2*4 tests, but I'd call that more like 1 test). Total: 14 tests. 20:27:58 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 oh man, gavino has found lisp-on-lines... queue a bunch of 'can lol be used to make ajax sites? 20:28:13 when dispatching on car first, it's actually 2 tests (the atom and nil) for the consp branches. So total of 20 tests. 20:28:15 :| 20:28:16 ron garrett will help him 20:28:39 rahul: so, does 20 = 14? 20:29:43 For small values of 20 and large values of 14? Or on a suitably-sized ring? 20:29:54 pkhuong: you're counting NIL and consp as separate tests? 20:30:01 lol, SRI is looking for people with CLIM experience 20:30:02 rahul: of course. 20:30:06 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:08 -!- slash_ [n=unknown@p4FF0A88A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:15 b 20:30:19 doh! sorry 20:30:20 pkhuong: I guess you could do that for extra safety... 20:31:03 Let's not, same end result. 20:31:54 slash_ [n=unknown@p4FF0A88A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 cdr: nil, consp (2*4) .. I don't see how that's 2*4 instead of 2+4 20:32:09 or even 1+4 20:32:35 rahul: you have to do that in each branch. 20:32:42 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has quit [] 20:32:59 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:33:00 oh, I see 20:33:04 (dispatch on cdr first I forgot to test the first car, so that's 18 for cdr first and 20 for car first) 20:34:17 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-7-88-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34:51 yeah, it's pretty close, but there can be a difference 20:35:02 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:54 for bigger cases I can see that you could definitely get a 10-20% reduction in code size 20:36:35 First dispatch on car: for each branch, we have to test cdr = nil, then car = [symbol] then cdr = nil. So 4 + 4*3 = 16. First dispatch on cdr: nil-test, then 4 atom tests + 4+4+4 atom+atom+nil tests -> 17 tests. But, that's only because we're actually making sure the input fits the pattern once we're down to one. Not only does not testing for cons-ness not do that, but we must also take into account that in the atom-atom-nil tests 20:36:59 and if NIL is always in a register, that test will always be faster than a LEA + test 20:37:13 dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f735889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:39 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:40:09 -!- dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:36 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 20:41:17 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:18 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 20:41:52 Demosthenex [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:42:25 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-123-121.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:36 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:45:04 -!- dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:45:36 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 20:46:07 saikatc [n=saikatc@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:42 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:52:41 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 20:53:00 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:54:04 cgrubb [n=clark@pool-71-106-36-10.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:57:42 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:57:45 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:54 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 20:59:58 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:24 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-100.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:00:53 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:53 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 21:03:54 saikatc [n=saikatc@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:31 -!- slash_ [n=unknown@p4FF0A88A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:12 -!- YuleAtha` is now known as YuleAthas 21:09:55 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.60.63] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:10:02 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.182.14] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-163.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:54 francogrex [n=user@91.177.153.248] has joined #lisp 21:19:02 I'm going crazy 21:20:27 on my other PC asdf loads and wroks well; but when i'm trying to load alexandria on the new one I get: ; C:\emacs\Zscripts\C-EMBED\CFFI-COMPILED\alexandria\alexandria.asd into ; # etc etc ad infinutum! 21:21:02 same behavior with ecl and sbcl 21:22:15 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:22:43 is cffi struct access as fast'n'fancy as ITA's famous mmap'ed C struct usage? 21:23:22 francogrex: I had that before, but didn't investigate. Touching all source and asd files to bump up their write access times helped. 21:25:27 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:26:17 lukego: cffi's compiler macros inline foreign slot accesses with constant arguments, so the result should be as fast as if using the host FFI directly 21:26:26 lichtblau: I uninstalled and re-installed SBCL, same problem. also the fact that another implementation gives same error makes me think it's not asdf or the implementations it's something else maybe stupid and minor 21:26:39 ejs [n=eugen@109-167-38-74.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 21:27:08 hee is what I do http://paste.lisp.org/display/92552 21:27:45 francogrex: happened to me in ccl, too. Must be a general ASDF/windows problem. 21:28:09 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:29:46 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:32:49 lichtblau: then how did it get solved? 21:43:10 -!- huangjs [n=user@p3089-ipbf4201marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:43:25 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-77-104.iburst.co.za] has quit ["Good night."] 21:44:23 pr [n=pr@p579CA705.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:48 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [No route to host] 21:45:59 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:42 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:51:34 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:51:52 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 -!- dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:10 BlackM [n=BMeph@65.103.151.24] has joined #lisp 21:52:29 -!- BMeph [n=BMeph@65.103.151.24] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:52:35 -!- BlackM is now known as BMeph 21:52:45 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 21:55:02 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:55:35 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225051059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:56:29 -!- akamaus [n=maus@94.231.112.177] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:57:05 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:05 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:58:15 lukego: should be! 22:02:30 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:30 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 22:02:47 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:04:31 Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has joined #lisp 22:05:19 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 22:05:34 where's the code that does presentation highlighting in mcclim? 22:06:02 and why doesn't it happen when I do read-frame-command ... :stream nil? 22:06:32 oh, and I have (with-input-context ('command) around that 22:10:53 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:59 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:11:48 hmm do I need to do (loop (read-gesture :stream nil))? 22:12:12 has anything actually been presented as a command? 22:12:33 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:23 -!- Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has quit [] 22:15:29 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-179-51-253.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:15:32 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:16:54 (loop (read-gesture :stream (get-frame-pane frame 'class))) 22:16:56 yay 22:17:07 Krystof: I have presentations with commands defined on them 22:17:41 the simple-event-loop doesn't highlight presentations that match the input context 22:17:55 although I'm not getting pointer documentation 22:20:05 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.153.248] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:19 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-45-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 22:22:27 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-82-147.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 22:23:05 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:23:25 Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has joined #lisp 22:23:44 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:13 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:25:21 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:03 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 22:28:12 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:17 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:32:57 I'm writing './clbuild install sbcl' and it's just doing a cvs update but not compiling anything.weird? 22:33:21 (there is no lisp of any kind on this machine) 22:34:03 astalla [n=astalla@93-36-226-240.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:36:02 lukego: check clbuild --long-help for compile-implementation perhaps 22:36:08 it might be nice for the web page to give an example of what commands to run to install Lisp + SLIME + "most important" libraries on a fresh machine. like the old "clbuild world" 22:36:46 lukego: "install" is a synonym for "update" these days 22:36:48 do I really need to read the --long-help to do the absolutely most basic thing i.e. install a lisp compiler on a brand new computer? 22:37:01 my apologies if that's not what you had in mind back then ;-) 22:37:29 can you tell me what command to run to get sbcl+slime+usualsuspects? this is a brand-spanking-new debian install 22:38:20 The thing is that over time, the more exciting features (i.e., building things) were something that users kept having trouble with, so I didn't feel that there was really no other choice but to hide them in --long-help to reduce the support effort. 22:38:29 By defaults, new users are encouraged to download stuff and start slime, but not much more. But the rest is still there if you want it. 22:39:01 please give me the "new user" advice. I have been away from lisp so long that it is perfectly applicable :) 22:39:03 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:39:24 clbuild install --main-projects; clbuild install sbcl; clbuild compile-implementation sbcl; clbuild slime 22:39:59 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:04 You can't build sbcl via clbuild without a lisp already present, though, right? 22:40:31 should I apt-get install sbcl first, in order to build the new one? 22:40:49 austinh: that's true, but lukego is only playing dumb. He's the author of clbuild. 22:40:54 (or can I use clisp for that?) 22:40:59 I am absolutely not playing dumb 22:41:07 I usually get a recent binary from sbcl.org to start things off. 22:41:09 lukego: cmucl, sbcl, and openmcl should all work as bootstrapping hosts IIRC 22:41:43 it would be nice to have e.g. './clbuild getstarted' that would do these steps 22:42:58 ok I apt-get'd sbcl and now the new one is building, nice 22:45:45 wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo968045.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:45:56 clbuild feels a bit more like a tool for hardcore lispers than for first-timers with all the new options, would be cool for it to be both 22:46:36 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-123-121.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:47:49 hey I'm up and running! 22:48:08 so it's already 99% there, I just needed to ask on IRC for the first-timer incantations 22:48:37 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:02 dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-249-155-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:09 maybe I will be inspired to make a './clbuild first-timer-dwim' patch and send it :) 22:49:48 btw lichtblau great work with clbuild, in googling for a cheat-sheet all I could find were happy reviews :) 22:52:40 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:17 and perhaps I was unwittingly doing a fairly advanced thing i.e. asking clbuild to build a fresh sbcl for me. I see that './clbuild install slime; ./clbuild slime' would get me into the air using debian's sbcl 22:58:40 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:59:47 -!- snowbeard [n=user@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:59:55 clbuild simplifies life tremendously, which is high praise for software. 23:00:14 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.90.1"] 23:01:36 snowbeard [n=user@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:11 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-046-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:48 yeah it actually looks like all the commands I tried at first would have actually worked if I'd had an sbcl preinstalled. so I must confess user error. I think I didn't appreciate what './clbuild check' was trying to tell me about my not having any working lisp system to bootstrap from 23:03:19 clbuild doesn't compile the source that is installed/linked with an 'install' command any more. 23:03:28 At the same time, I bet a "can't continue installation without a host lisp" message would have helped. 23:04:31 which seems to work out better. 23:05:56 went out in the car and the temp hit -8.5, crazy weather 23:06:51 Guthur: C or F? (I'm presuming not K.) 23:07:05 C 23:07:25 not cold for some places, but pretty unheard of here 23:07:54 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:08:17 and then i seen a pack of girls going to a party with more or less nothing on, they are even more crazy than the weather 23:08:35 16.7F? Cold for here, but not unheard of. 23:08:45 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:09:20 nyef: yes I'm hacking in exactly that error message now. I am thinking that "no lisp system installed" error is not an oft-exercised code path for people in this channel :) 23:09:37 (So, I get to western new york for a contract, and several people comment "oh, you're from new hampshire? finally, someone who's -used- to this kind of weather".) 23:09:37 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:23 i'm used to it...as long as i stay indoors near a fire or some such 23:10:27 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 23:10:32 *_deepfire* plays with a remote buildmaster deployment metatest 23:10:36 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-179.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:10:59 ... Closest to a fire we get here is a flame-effect screensaver. 23:11:14 <_deepfire> It's pretty amazing what you can do with a chain of ssh connections. 23:11:48 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:12:24 pr [n=pr@p579CAF70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:56 an open fire is nice on a day like this, only problem is want to do some lisp hacking and that means staying in my room 23:13:01 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:13:13 need a laptop and an extension cord :) 23:13:40 *nyef* is curled up under a warm blanket with his laptop next to him. 23:15:21 lukego pasted "newbie-friendliness patch for 'clbuild check'" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92558 23:15:38 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:15:43 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit ["G-stringed"] 23:15:51 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-046-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 23:15:53 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 23:16:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:16:44 that patch is supposed to represent less-whine-more-hack :) 23:16:47 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:40 minion: Chant! 23:17:40 MORE HACK 23:18:16 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:18:50 impressive tokenization, minion. :) 23:18:53 ok 'night all 23:19:02 lukego: Sleep well. 23:20:09 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 23:20:15 Good morning! 23:20:21 Hello plage. 23:20:30 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:22:41 It's pretty neat how straightforward it's been so far to get SBCL on LLVM going, despite starting out a couple weeks ago knowing almost nothing of either SBCL or LLVM. :) 23:23:01 That's good to hear. 23:23:23 At least someone has had a relatively straightforward hack recently. 23:23:42 *nyef* glares at the stupid-lowtag-tricks branch. 23:23:56 Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's going to get real hard real fast. 23:26:22 Is SBCL in freeze yet? 23:27:28 everything is frozen its -8.5C 23:27:36 hehe sorry couldn't resistt 23:30:15 *nyef* kicks off a win32 build of 1.0.33.29 and hopes it doesn't take his host down. 23:35:53 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:51 Hello slyrus. 23:40:33 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:52 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32F317.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:18 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-9-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:41:21 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:42:45 hey nyef 23:46:06 -!- astalla [n=astalla@93-36-226-240.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 23:46:51 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32F317.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:04 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 23:47:27 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:48:30 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:50:27 *nyef* just saw sb-posix fail to build on win32. 23:52:48 -!- austinh [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:53:07 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:15 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:57:35 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-146.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:58:09 austinh [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:03 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp